Out of Step Podcast

What if the story someone tells you is actually the wall keeping you out?Evan Bourcier has spent 15 years pulling real stories out of real people... athletes, musicians, billionaires, and even dudes bleeding out in Dunkin' Donuts. He has learned to sniff out the difference between the story someone tells and the story that's actually driving their life.In this conversation, we get into all of it: when to follow the story, when to press, when to shut up and let the silence do the heavy lifting... and why some coaching methodologies might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by cutting "story" off at the knees.About Evan: Evan Bourcier is Chief Creative Steward at Challenger Media House, where he tells real stories for individuals and companies who aren't interested in the sanitized version.His Substack, The Challenger Grimoire, is worth your time... go check it out: https://ebourcier.substack.com/Find him on Instagram at @challengermediahouse.In this episode:Why a story that loops might not be the problem... it might be the protectionThe two questions that open any door: "What makes you say that?" and "Tell me more about that"How 27,000 hours behind a salon chair built better coaching instincts than most certification programsWhy letting someone be heard all the way through might be the most therapeutic thing you ever doThe moment Evan gave a CrossFit athlete permission to tell him to fuck off... and why that made the whole thing workThe Wayfaring Method Coach Certification opens in May. If you're someone who supports other humans and you're ready to go deeper than techniques and frameworks... to actually trust your intuitive wisdom in the room... this is the training for you. Head to outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod or DM me on Instagram at @andrew.carruthers.00:00 Introduction & what we're getting into today03:37 Check-in: one word for mental, emotional, physical, spiritual05:10 What ignited Evan's passion for story11:13 The pattern behind people's calling11:39 Why story wasn't welcome in the church15:28 What is the actual power of story?23:24 The difference between helpful and unhelpful story34:38 When surface story is a wall of protection37:46 The coaching session that broke someone's trust41:50 Consent, intuition, and knowing when to lean in46:18 Trusting intuitive wisdom over technique49:35 The Alfred North Whitehead quote... and what it means54:13 Authenticity vs. AI... what can't be replicated01:02:18 Watching the mentor instead of being watched01:05:18 Symbols, Daoism, and the limits of language01:08:26 Hakomi, experiments, and putting a finger on it01:13:06 Foundations as a safety net for intuition01:18:25 Closing reflections and what's next with EvanDrop a comment or question for us!And subscribe if you want to support the podcast :-)

What if the identity we've built around our work is actually the thing holding us back? Not because it's wrong, but because we've let it become a box with walls so high we can't even see over them anymore?That's what this conversation is really about. My guest Misty Jayne Harmon has been a hairdresser for over 23 years, a money coach, a podcaster, and honestly a lot of other things that don't fit neatly into a bio. We get into the very real mental blocks that come up when you start to outgrow the identity you've created, why the "niche down" advice from the marketing world can become its own kind of trap, and what it actually feels like when you finally give yourself permission to just... be more than one thing.Fair warning, this one got personal. In a really good way.Links:Misty on IG: @_mistyjayne_Website: www.mistyjayne.com2027 Costa Rica Retreat Waitlist: https://mistyjayne.mykajabi.com/costa-rica-2027-waitlistAndrew's Wayfaring Method Coach Certification (Starts May 2026): www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod Timestamps[0:00] The identity trap — and who this episode is for [2:19] Introducing Misty Jane Harmon [3:48] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [5:10] When COVID took away the hairdresser identity — and what that revealed [8:10] The validation machine: what hairdressers get that coaches don't [11:29] The slow build — why stepping into coaching is harder than it looks [14:14] Starting from zero: lessons from Misty's first coaching client [19:16] Figuring out your lane — and why it takes longer than you think [21:32] How Misty Jane the money coach was born (hint: Toastmasters) [26:48] When the box starts to feel too small [30:19] What do I put in my Instagram bio? (It's a real block, not a stupid one) [31:52] Identity, marketing, and the high school cafeteria energy of social media [36:49] The session that changed everything — keep hairdresser or drop it? [40:44] Does the container guide you or confine you? [42:30] The playground fence study — why boundaries create freedom [46:11] Is comfort zone always the enemy? Maybe not. [49:20] Back-sided commitments — the invisible limits we set on ourselves [53:46] What pure coaching actually looks like vs. consulting [57:35] Evolving publicly — and why it gives others permission to do the same [59:27] What even is failure? And does it matter? [1:04:50] Advice to her younger self: don't discount the mistakesOut of Step is hosted by Andrew Carruthers — outofstep.life

What if the most powerful thing a teacher can do is refuse to be your guru? That's the question at the heart of this conversation — and honestly, it's one I had to sit with myself before we even hit record.My guest is Frank Inzan Owen who has become a co-Wayfarer and teacher on my journey. I found him through a secondhand book my wife picked up from a friend's moving pile. Ten pages in, I knew I had to find whoever wrote it. That search eventually led me here... to one of the most important convos I've had about walking our own path.We get into what it really means to be a wayfarer, the difference between a teacher and a guru, and why I recently had to admit I was looking for someone to just tell me the right way forward. LOL. Spoiler: that's not how this works.About Frank Inzan OwenFrank is a wayfarer of a nature-centric contemplative path rooted in East Asian traditions. He's a poet, hill walker, organic gardener, and facilitator of a Jungian-informed practice he calls Soulfaring. He curates a Substack called The Luminous Procession that I can't recommend enough!🌐 https://soulfaring.org/🌐 https://www.theluminousprocession.com/Want more info on The Wayfaring Method coach training and certification?🌐 https://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethodTimestamps[0:01] Welcome to Season 2 + Wayfaring Method cohort is open [1:06] How I found Frank — the secondhand book story[4:39] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [6:26] What is a Wayfarer? The word across traditions [9:08] The shift from way seeker to wayfarer — and what Soul Faring is [13:18] The tension between the wayfarer and the guru model [14:23] I asked Frank to be my mentor. His response changed everything. [16:46] Frank's history with teachers — and the clear mirror [20:16] The triangle: where is the point aimed? [24:57] "Not passed down — passed over, like a cup of tea" [29:05] When a teacher told me my eclectic spirituality meant I was "lost" [31:40] "But what if I do it wrong?" + You're never not on the path. [35:20] The models for direct experience are the mentor [41:24] "It sounds like that faucet is running dry" — the oasis image [46:13] Practice as antidote + the world of red dust [51:54] If you're only doing yoga in the studio, you're not doing yoga [53:30] The Aikido subway story + where to start as a wayfarerReferenced in this episode:📘 The Mist-Filled Path — Frank MacEowen 📚 Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind — Shunryu Suzuki 📚 Future Shock / The Third Wave / Power Shift — Alvin Toffler 📚 Aikido and the New Warrior — "A Kind Word Turneth Away Wrath" 🌬️ Numa BreathworkOut of Step is hosted by Andrew Carruthers — outofstep.life

There’s no clean path to finding our place in this work… and definitely no five-step formula.In this solo reflection, I wrap up The Way Beneath the Work mini-series by sharing what’s been most nourishing, challenging, and real for me after conversations with Ari, Sagewolf, Sarai, and Kathleen. From spirituality and community to the necessity of hard experiences and the willingness to follow inner callings, this episode pulls together the deeper threads that have been running beneath it all.If you’re someone who supports other humans—and you’re trying to find your own authentic way of doing that—this is a reminder that the path isn’t something you follow… it’s something you walk.We talk about:Why there are no shortcuts to real inner workThe role of spirituality (without dogma) in guiding othersThe difference between surface-level and deep, accountable communityWhy the hard stuff isn’t optional if you want depthFollowing inner callings (even when it doesn’t feel like courage)Exploring your edges and expanding your “fence”What’s next for the podcast + an invitation into the Wayfaring MethodThis is the end of the mini-series… and the beginning of what’s next.The next cohort of the Wayfaring Method is now open!www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod for more infoChapter Markers00:00 Closing the mini-series + why this journey matters02:00 Wayfaring Method announcement + inner work as foundation03:20 The biggest theme: there are no shortcuts04:30 Ari + the role of spirituality (without dogma)08:30 Sagewolf + deeper, more accountable community12:00 Sarai + why the hard experiences are non-negotiable15:00 Depth vs. “high vibe” living (and the illusion of ease)17:30 Holding multiple facets of self (Bill Plotkin model)19:30 Kathleen + following inner callings without waiting for courage22:00 Living in transition + learning to move with change23:30 Exploring edges + the playground/fence metaphor26:30 Expanding your “fence” through other perspectives27:00 What success actually felt like from this series28:30 What’s next: Season 2 + continuing to push edges

You know when a friend you love introduces you to another cool-ass human… and you instantly know you’re supposed to be homies? That’s Kathleen Funk.She’s a 4th generation healer with a doctorate in Traditional Chinese Medicine who left a successful integrative clinic… and followed the call into art, energy work, and what she (rightfully) calls “Don’t Call It Woo.”In this conversation, we get into the real journey beneath the work: how your “niche” isn’t a box you lock yourself into, why most people don’t pivot fast enough, and what it looks like to trust the winding road instead of waiting for perfect certainty. Kathleen shares the leap from “valid profession” expectations and Western-friendly credibility… into subtle energy mapping, chi flow “weather reports,” and using art as a form of liberation and decolonizing wellness.If you’ve ever felt the itch to evolve, the guilt of changing lanes, or the fear of leaving something that’s working… this one will land.Connect with Kathleen:Instagram: @acufuncturePatreon community: Don’t Call It WooRequest an appointment for an Energy Map https://acufunkture.comChapters:00:00 — Intro: “cool-ass people” + who Kathleen is03:05 — Truest/highest self: power, alignment, shadow + vitality05:50 — Eco-niche, purpose, and why the path is never a straight line09:44 — The niche trap: branding before voice (backwards)13:55 — Permission to evolve (and stop feeling guilty about it)18:29 — Pivot vs. “bailing”: how to tell what’s actually happening22:33 — Fear, community, and launching “Don’t Call It Woo” anyway27:56 — Kathleen’s origin story: 4th gen healer → TCM doctorate32:51 — Healing beyond symptoms: emotional, energetic, spiritual root-work39:07 — The limits of Western-valid credibility + scaling burnout41:12 — The lease renewal moment: “nope, not five more years”48:13 — When the body forces the issue: losing vision + the call to paint55:55 — Sabbatical + intuitive painting: the door that opened everything01:02:32 — Art residencies: Canada woods + Italy cathedrals01:04:47 — Energy Maps: visual reflections of the subtle body01:07:33 — Returning to 1:1 work: sustainable, energizing, guided by Spirit01:12:13 — How to work with Kathleen now (Patreon + 1:1)01:14:25 — Closing: gratitude, love, and “my cup is full”

This episode has a whole bunch of f-cks—and it’s not for shock value, it’s part of the medicine!Sarai Speer tells the real story: what it cost to survive, heal, and rebuild capacity from the inside out on her journey to Authenticity.If you’ve ever looked “fine” while your nervous system was completely maxed out… this one’s for you.Sarai is a nervous system + mental health coach, international speaker, and creator of The Held Method + Capacity Club. We talk about what “highest self” actually feels like vs our "parts", how identity becomes more fluid with real adulthood, why the leap into purpose rarely comes with a map, and how healing can look like kintsugi—broken pieces fused with gold.Content note: vulnerable discussion of abuse, addiction/drug use, eating disorders, and mental health. Please take care while listening.Links! H.E.L.D. Nervous System Course (aka Regulate the Fuck Outta Yourself) https://saraispeer.com/held-methodSarai's Podcast: https://feeds.transistor.fm/combative-calm-f977c95b-c833-4586-b855-ea716d63e8d4Website: https://saraispeer.com/1:1 Coaching Call: https://saraispeer.com/inside-out-sessionInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/theplatinumgiraffe/Chapter Markers00:00 Intro + warning: lots of f-bombs03:43 “Highest self” question04:27 What it looks like (confidence, aura, “I don’t give a f-ck”)06:06 What it sounds like (big presence, pace, intensity)08:53 What it feels like (powerful/soft, masculine/feminine)13:05 Sarai’s origin story begins (assault, anger, eating disorder)17:45 Addiction escalates + homelessness20:05 Sobriety + work becoming the next addiction23:45 Leaving the hair industry + coming back to core self32:43 Kintsugi metaphor + “what filled the cracks?”34:04 Zone of greatness vs zone of genius (The Big Leap)40:23 The leap has no map + pain of staying > fear of leaving44:07 Practices that helped: yoga, slowing down, intuition53:46 Authenticity = embracing all parts (not linear)01:04:12 Poem: nature as teacher (calm + chaos, release + rise)01:07:03 Closing: intuition vs fear (“soft/quiet” vs “loud”)01:09:20 Gratitude + wrap

In Episode 3, I sit down with my brother Sagewolf... devoted father of five, husband, and powerful guide for men. We talk about the lifelong hunger for community, how it changes over time, and what becomes possible when you’re willing to meet yourself honestly. This one goes deep into accountability, supportive confrontation and the kind of community that doesn’t just comfort you... it sharpens you.This episode is part of the mini-series The Way Beneath “The Work,” where I’m exploring the deeper, often unseen journey of finding your true place in the ecosystem of supporting other humans. Sagewolf and I trace the thread of community through his life from being the kid who just wanted to be with his people, to becoming someone immersed in potent circles and now helping lead them.We talk about the shift from chasing belonging through identity, achievement, and external validation to discovering a deeper form of community rooted in acceptance, radical honesty, and ownership. Sagewolf shares how years behind the chair in the hair world became an unexpected mirror reflecting patterns back to him and sparking meaningful change. From there, we explore ecstatic dance as “church,” embodied spaces, and what changed when he stepped into Sacred Sons.One of the most powerful moments we unpack is Sagewolf’s first experience being asked to name a judgment toward someone he didn’t know, and meet it directly. We explore how facing charge in real time can transform judgment into connection, and how intimacy isn’t just sexual... it’s about a true closeness without barriers.We also talk about why so many people struggle to receive community mirrors at all... the “I’m fine” mask, the drive to keep it together, and the tendency to wait until rock bottom before reaching out. We break down the difference between being called out and being called in, and why real community doesn’t exile you when you’re out of alignment, it invites you back in.If you’ve been craving deeper community but don’t know where to start, Sagewolf offers grounded guidance: show up more than once, move your body, be willing to raise your hand first—and if you can’t find what you need, create it. Sometimes it really does start with a few people, a meal, and one honest conversation.As always, listen with ears and heart open. Take what speaks. Leave what doesn’t. And keep showing up.Connect with Sagewolf: https://www.instagram.com/sagewolf_eto_eda/00:00 — Welcome to Out Of Step & The Way Beneath “The Work”02:05 — Introducing Sage Wolf04:00 — What Does Your Most Authentic Self Look, Sound, and Feel Like?07:10 — A Lifelong Hunger for Community12:30 — The Hair World as a Mirror16:45 — Early Personal Development & Cracks in the Old Identity18:30 — First Steps Into Men’s Work20:45 — Discovering Sacred Sons24:30 — Acceptance, Radical Honesty, and Ownership28:45 — Why People Can’t Receive Community Mirrors33:20 — The First Sacred Sons Experience36:45 — Meeting Judgment Head-On44:45 — Brotherhood vs. Social Circles47:30 — Accountability, Reps, and Sharpening the Edge52:30 — Finding Your Version of Accountability55:45 — Call-Out vs. Call-In58:45 — How to Build This Kind of Community01:02:30 — A Human Reminder01:05:20 — Gratitude & Closing

This episode is a deep conversation about ancestry, spirit, and the support available to us when we remember where we come from. I’m joined by my friend Ari Huitzilopotchli, who works with women in midlife navigating identity shifts, endings, and the space between who they were and who they’re becoming.This conversation is part of The Way Beneath the Work — a mini-series exploring what it really takes to find our true place within the ecosystem of supporting other humans. Not through branding, titles, or positioning, but through a deeper remembering of who we are and how we’re meant to serve.Ari shares her own journey... from decades behind the chair in the salon to the deeply grounded work she holds now with individuals, women in midlife, and couples. Together, we explore ancestry, spirit, guidance, and how to tell the difference between intuition and the anxious head-chatter that so often pulls us off our path.We talk about elders, lineage, belonging, and why this work is not meant to be rushed. Why healing isn’t something to “finish,” and why so many of us feel disconnected from our worth, our purpose, and our sense of place — even while helping others find theirs.This episode is an invitation to slow down, listen more deeply, and trust the longer journey of becoming who you’re here to be.Listen with an open heart. Take what resonates. Leave what doesn’t.Connect with Ari:Insta: https://www.instagram.com/fearless.femme.life/Website: https://www.fearlessfemmelife.com/00:00 — An Invitation to ListenHow to meet this conversation with curiosity instead of agreement.02:25 — Belonging Beneath the RolesWhy this work isn’t about titles, branding, or identity labels.04:10 — Ari & the Call of AncestryMeeting Ari and her relationship with spirit and lineage.07:45 — Growing Up with SpiritEarly awareness, family dynamics, and learning to live with the gift.12:30 — The Salon as Sacred SpaceHolding space long before having language for it.17:50 — Medicine, Elders, and RestraintWhy guidance requires maturity, lineage, and care.22:40 — Spirit vs. Head ChatterHow to tell intuition from fear-based thinking.28:15 — Trusting the LeapFear, courage, and walking the path anyway.33:00 — Beyond Fixing OurselvesWhy healing isn’t something to “complete.”38:40 — The Body RemembersMemory, fascia, and embodied release.43:20 — When You Feel DisconnectedRebuilding relationship with ancestry and spirit.49:30 — This Takes TimeWhy the long road matters.54:40 — A Message from SpiritA closing blessing on belonging and love.

Holy shit friends—here we go.This podcast has been rattling around in my head for seven or eight years. For a long time, it felt like something I should do. Especially if you’re in the coaching world the message was - have a podcast, build the brand, do the thing. And honestly, that pressure is probably why I didn’t start it back then.This year, something shifted. It stopped being about my business and started feeling like it had real purpose. Like something I needed to say, whether it “worked” or not.Out of Step is for people who support other humans—coaches, mentors, facilitators, educators, leaders, healers. But more specifically, it’s for those of us who feel like we live a little off the map of those worlds. The ones who don’t quite fit the standard strategies, systems, or personalities that seem to dominate these industries.In this first episode, I share my own long, messy path—from hairdressing apprentice, to educator, to coach—and the parts of that journey that almost broke me. Burnout. The terrifying experience of losing my relationship with my voice. Questioning who I was and whether I even belonged in this work. And how all of that eventually led me to a way of working that feels honest and sustainable—what I now call Wayfaring.This isn’t a how-to episode. It’s not cleaned up. It’s an origin story. Real stories, real questions, and some uncomfortable truths about what it actually takes to walk this path of supporting other humans.If you’ve ever felt drawn to this work but uneasy with the usual formulas…If you’ve ever wondered whether there’s another way to do this without losing yourself…You’re in the right place.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Out of Step Podcast01:44 The Purpose Behind the Podcast05:44 Andrew's Journey in Hairdressing10:49 Transitioning to Education and Coaching18:45 Facing Burnout and Rediscovering Purpose27:40 The Impact of COVID and Shifting Focus30:14 Embracing Authenticity and Rebranding36:33 Conclusion and Call to Action