Shally's Alley

This episode rips apart the myth that high recruiter turnover is a talent problem. Adam Kovacs, founder of Hire With Near, delivers hard truths about why your recruiting function is hemorrhaging people and money. The real issue? Organizations treat recruiting like an administrative function while demanding strategic results, then wonder why nobody stays. Adam breaks down the structural failures that create 96% burnout rates and shows exactly how treating recruiting as a revenue function changes everything. In this episode we talk about the systemic dysfunction plaguing recruiting teams across industries. You'll hear why most organizations are structured to burn out their best recruiters, how a single bad hire costs 300% of annual salary, and why the traditional recruiter compensation model is fundamentally broken. Adam shares battle-tested frameworks for rebuilding recruiting as a strategic function, including how to properly resource teams, when automation actually helps, and why your ATS might be making everything worse. This is the conversation every talent leader needs to hear. Key Takeaways: ➡ 96% of recruiters experience burnout with only 49% planning to stay in the profession, yet organizations keep hiring more recruiters instead of fixing the system. ➡ A single bad hire costs organizations 300% of that person's annual salary when you factor in separation costs, recruitment expenses, onboarding, and lost productivity. ➡ Most recruiters are drowning in 40-50 open requisitions when research shows the optimal load is 15-20 max for quality outcomes. ➡ The $70k base salary trap: Organizations underpay recruiters while expecting them to fill roles that generate millions in revenue, creating a compensation structure that guarantees failure. ➡ Automation works for high-volume, low-complexity roles but becomes a liability for senior or specialized positions where relationship-building drives success. ➡ Traditional ATS platforms force recruiters to work inside systems designed for compliance, not efficiency, adding hours of administrative burden to every placement. ➡ Organizations measure recruiting success by time-to-fill instead of quality-of-hire, incentivizing speed over sustainable talent acquisition. ➡ The broken loop: Bad hires create more turnover, which creates more requisitions, which overloads recruiters, which leads to more bad hires and recruiter burnout. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro 03:15 – The 96% Burnout Crisis in Recruiting 08:42 – Why Recruiter Turnover Is a System Problem 14:20 – The True Cost of a Bad Hire: 300% ROI Loss 19:35 – Requisition Load Reality: 40 Roles Is Setting Up Failure 25:10 – The $70k Compensation Trap 31:45 – When Automation Helps and When It Destroys Quality 38:20 – Why Your ATS Is Making Recruiters Less Effective 44:55 – Measuring What Matters: Quality Over Speed 52:30 – Building a Strategic Recruiting Function Sound Bites: "We keep hiring more recruiters to solve a problem that more recruiters won't solve. It's like adding more people to a burning building instead of putting out the fire." "The system is designed to burn people out. When 96% of your workforce is experiencing burnout and only half plan to stay, that's not a people problem, that's a design flaw." Guest Info: Name: Adam Kovacs Website: HireWithNear.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/adamkovacs Expertise: Founder of Hire With Near, specializing in fixing broken recruiting systems and building sustainable talent acquisition functions for scaling organizations. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Amazon Music⁠⁠ About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ Follow Shally on LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠

Ashley Surratt, Head of Talent Acquisition at Black & Veatch, went from recruiting at AWS to sourcing engineers who build power grids, water systems, and data centers. The shift completely redefined what "difficult sourcing" actually means. Think tech recruiting is hard? Try finding a project manager who needs 10 years designing wastewater treatment plants before they're even qualified to manage one. In this episode we talk about the gap between tech and blue collar sourcing, why "project manager" means something totally different in infrastructure, and how Ashley's team gets creative when LinkedIn doesn't work. You'll hear the unicorn hunter playbook for industries where traditional channels fail, why trade schools beat college degrees, and how certifications and field experience force you to think 10 moves ahead. Plus, Ashley's 1% daily improvement philosophy and why it compounds faster than any Boolean string. KEY TAKEAWAYS ➡ Infrastructure recruiting is exploding due to massive government spending, but the talent pipeline hasn't caught up. ➡ When LinkedIn fails, source from trade association directories, certification boards, competitor postings, and job fairs at project sites. ➡ Skilled trades run on apprenticeships, not degrees. Understand how electricians, welders, and HVAC techs enter and progress. ➡ Boolean hits a wall in blue collar roles. Work backward from certifications, union memberships, or project lists. ➡ 1% daily improvement triples your effectiveness yearly. Continuous improvement beats big swings. ➡ Infrastructure talent sees their work in the real world. Tangible impact attracts different candidates. ➡ Ashley won SourceCon's Sourcing Anonymous, proving creativity beats a massive LinkedIn Recruiter license. CHAPTERS 00:00 – Intro & Technical Difficulties00:17 – Meet Ashley Surratt from Black & Veatch01:38 – What is EPC and Why Infrastructure Recruiting Matters03:08 – The Biggest Myth About Switching Industries05:08 – Why "Project Manager" Means Something Totally Different in Construction08:42 – Creative Sourcing When LinkedIn Fails12:15 – Trade Schools, Apprenticeships, and the Skilled Trades Pipeline18:30 – Boolean's Limits in Blue Collar Recruiting24:50 – Working Backward from Certifications and Licenses31:20 – How to Source for Roles That Require Hands-On Field Experience38:10 – Why Infrastructure Talent Sees Their Work in the Real World43:45 – Ashley's Sourcing Anonymous Win and Lessons Learned48:20 – The Power of 1% Daily Improvement52:31 – Next Guest Recommendations54:00 – Closing Question: How Can You Improve 1% Today? SOUND BITES "I'm like, well, project managers are everywhere. What do you talk to? And then I got here and it was really estimation and having to have this giant, very niche engineering background, like, 10 years of designing the wastewater treatment before you even start managing the project." "I'm a really big believer in continuous improvement even if it's just 1%. What could I have done differently to be better tomorrow?" GUEST INFO Name: Ashley SurrattCompany: Black & Veatch (EPC firm focused on water, power, and infrastructure)LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleysurratt/Expertise: Head of Talent Acquisition specializing in engineering, skilled trades, and infrastructure recruiting. Former AWS sourcing leader. SourceCon Sourcing Anonymous winner. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Amazon Music ⁠⁠About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ Follow Shally on LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠

Brandon Jeffs isn't your average recruiter. He's the founder of Building the Talent Machine, a content studio serving the recruiting tech industry, and he's built his brand on storytelling, authenticity, and refusing to blend into the beige corporate landscape. This conversation cuts through the usual conference BS and gets real about what it takes to stand out in recruiting today: humor, intentionality, and understanding your why. In this episode we talk about RecFest experiences, the power of personality in recruiting, and why authenticity beats polish every time. You'll hear Brandon's journey from working in homeless shelters to building a recruiting career that blends content creation, executive search, and storytelling. We dig into how humor functions as strategy, brand amplification, and rebellion against the boring status quo. Brandon shares hard-won lessons about building community, leveraging content for business development, and why asking "why do you recruit?" might be the most important question you answer today. KEY TAKEAWAYS: ➡ Brandon runs Building the Talent Machine as both a podcast and a content studio that services the recruiting technology industry while doing executive search work. ➡ Shally's show has reached 312 episodes with 173 unique guests and over 24,000 total views without any intentional self-promotion strategy. ➡ RecFest brings together 3,000+ recruiters in Austin for networking, learning, and building community in ways traditional conferences can't match. ➡ Humor in recruiting serves triple duty: it's a recruiting strategy, a brand amplifier, and an act of rebellion against corporate blandness. ➡ Brandon built his entire recruiting career thanks to one recruiter who gave him an opportunity when he was living paycheck to paycheck working at a homeless shelter. ➡ Authenticity beats perfection: showing up in tie-dye and cowboy boots at HR Tech is memorable brand building, not career suicide. ➡ Content creation for recruiters isn't about going viral. It's about building genuine relationships and creating value for your specific community. ➡ The most important question recruiters should ask themselves daily: "Why do I do this?" Knowing your why changes everything about how you recruit. CHAPTERS: 00:00 – Intro and RecFest Recap 02:50 – Who Is Brandon Jeffs and What Is Building the Talent Machine?05:14 – 312 Episodes and 24,000 Views: The Accidental Show Growth08:30 – RecFest Deep Dive: Why 3,000 Recruiters Descended on Austin15:42 – The Economics of Recruiting Conferences and Content Creation22:15 – Authenticity vs. Polish: Building Your Personal Brand30:18 – Storytelling as a Recruiting Superpower37:45 – Content Strategy for Recruiters: What Actually Works42:30 – The Business Model Behind Building the Talent Machine48:08 – Humor as Strategy: Brand Amplifier or Rebellion?50:26 – Ask Yourself Why You Recruit51:22 – Next Guest Recommendation and Wrap SOUND BITES: "No one orders milk toast at brunch." "I'm the only influencer you'll ever meet that doesn't have social media." "Ask why you do it. Before you log on and sleuth the Internet, before you book your calendar with six to eight screens a day, ask yourself why you're doing it." GUEST INFO: Name: Brandon JeffsWebsite: buildingthetalentmachine.comLinkedIn: Brandon JeffsExpertise: Content creator, recruiter, and founder who helps recruiting tech companies tell their stories while filling executive search roles in go-to-market functions. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Amazon Music⁠⁠ About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ Follow Shally on LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠

Want to know why some recruiters build unstoppable pipelines while others struggle? It starts with curiosity. Liz Whitehead brings raw energy and practical wisdom about what actually works in talent acquisition: staying curious, adapting like a french fry (yes, really), and remembering that recruiting is fundamentally about people, not Boolean strings. She's built her career on tech obsession balanced with genuine human connection, and this conversation reveals exactly how she does it. Key Takeaways ➡ Forever curious beats forever busy. The best recruiters treat every conversation as an opportunity to learn something new about people, industries, and motivations. ➡ Be a french fry, not a filet mignon. Versatility matters more than specialization. Adapt to different environments, clients, and challenges instead of staying rigid in your approach. ➡ Technology without humanity is just noise. Tools amplify your work, but genuine curiosity and authentic connection are what actually fill pipelines. ➡ Ask "why?" at least three times. Candidates give surface-level answers initially. Dig deeper to understand true motivations, goals, and pain points. ➡ Stop hoarding tools, start solving problems. Identify your ONE biggest pain point, then find the tool that solves it. Master that before adding more to your stack. ➡ Joy is a recruiting superpower. Bringing positive energy to every interaction isn't soft skill fluff, it's what makes candidates want to engage with you. ➡ Learn from the people you want to work with. Liz built her sourcing expertise by following industry leaders like Shally and Greg Hawkes, then applying what she learned. ➡ The intake conversation is everything. Whether it's a hiring manager or a candidate, understanding pain points upfront determines your success rate. ➡ Data scraping and automation aren't magic. They're just tools that free up time for relationship building, which is still the real work of recruiting. Chapters 00:00 – Intro: Fall weather and allergy wars02:05 – Meet Liz Whitehead: The one that got away04:09 – Early career: Finding the sourcing path07:22 – The curiosity framework: Why "input" is everything12:45 – Technology obsession meets human connection18:30 – The french fry philosophy: Versatility as strategy25:17 – Building authentic candidate relationships31:40 – Asking "why?" three times: The deeper conversation38:55 – Tool selection strategy: Solve ONE pain point44:20 – Learning from industry leaders and applying it51:15 – Liz Connects: Building community through connection54:00 – Closing thoughts and guest recommendations Sound Bites "How are you like a French fry? Can you adapt to your environment, be seasoned different ways, and show up differently based on what's needed?" – Shally Steckerl "Focus on one pain point and start there. You'll be surprised how far you get." – Liz Whitehead Guest Info Name: Liz Whitehead LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizconnects/Expertise: Talent sourcing specialist focused on technology, automation, and authentic human connection in recruiting. Known for curiosity-driven approaches and building genuine candidate relationships. Subscribe on: ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠iHeart Radio⁠ | ⁠Pandora⁠ | ⁠Amazon Music⁠ About Shally: srcn.co AskShally GPT: srcn.co/sgpt The Sourcing Method Book: srcn.co/tsm The AI Browser Toolkit: srcn.co/aib1 Follow Shally on LinkedIn https://srcn.co/follow LinkedIn Feed: https://srcn.co/feed Facebook Group: https://srcn.co/fb YouTube Channel: https://srcn.co/yt Instagram: https://srcn.co/ig

Angel Alexander: From Therapist to Workforce Architect SUMMARY: What happens when a mental health therapist pivots into talent acquisition? You get someone who sees recruiting as relationship architecture, not transaction management. Angel Alexander managed 36 recruiters, negotiated over 10,000 offers (up to 30 per week), and built diversity pipelines that actually worked because she focused on outcomes, not policies. Her secret? Understanding that all business is personal, meeting people where they are, and asking what candidates need instead of assuming what impresses them. In this episode we talk about the uncomfortable truths most TA leaders avoid. Angel breaks down why community outreach beats corporate strategy every time, how she convinced people to take $50,000 pay cuts, and why your hiring managers need to stop weeding candidates out and start weeding them in. We get into the psychology of salary negotiations, the 15+ hiring biases killing your pipeline, and why that candidate in flip-flops might be your next top performer. Plus, Angel shares her Unplugged Connect card game that forces deeper conversations than your standard screening call ever could. KEY TAKEAWAYS: Angel negotiated 10,000+ offers, averaging 30 per week, and regularly convinced candidates to accept $15K-$50K pay cuts by focusing on total value beyond salary She managed 36 recruiters by starting with Crystal Knowles personality assessments for each team member to understand how they communicate and operate Grassroots community outreach is massively underestimated by TA leaders, but it builds trust faster and creates longer pipelines than broad corporate strategies There are 15+ hiring biases most managers don't even know they have. The candidate in flip-flops might not have money for shoes, not lack professionalism Benefits like full-ride education ($30K+ value), IVF coverage ($30K), therapy sessions, and virtual training options close deals when salary can't compete Asking "What do you want a company to provide to you?" early in conversations reveals what candidates actually value and arms you for negotiation Revolving loan fund model: Meet people where they are with what they need, not what you assume impresses them (coffee at 8am > fancy lunch that disrupts their day) CHAPTERS: 00:00 – Intro and Welcome 02:47 – From Therapist to Talent Architect 06:27 – The Unplugged Connect Card Game 11:36 – Managing 36 Recruiters Without Losing Your Mind 16:01 – All Business Is Personal 18:04 – DEI: Policy vs. Practice 26:00 – Community Outreach vs. Corporate Strategy 32:36 – Meeting People Where They Are 40:53 – Interview-In, Not Interview-Out 46:51 – Salary Negotiations: Beyond the Paycheck 56:03 – Next Guest Recommendations SOUND BITES: "Interview-in, not interview-out. Look at their strengths and weaknesses. Weigh them out. See what can be coached and then assess in the next year what has increased." "When you're more authentic, when you're more people-led driven, you're going to get diversity. Because they see the truth. They feel like they can be seen. They feel they can be heard." "I had people take a $50,000 pay cut because of the type of internal benefits that we have. It's not just about weeding in their qualifications. I want to know what's not on your resume." GUEST INFO: Name: Angel AlexanderLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/angeldbaExpertise: Founder of Unplugged Connect | Diversity Pipeline Strategist | Former Therapist Turned TA Leader Who Negotiated 10,000+ Offers

Diane Prince sold her staffing firm for $28 million and discovered something counterintuitive: the biggest business killers aren't market conditions or competition. They're the psychological traps entrepreneurs set for themselves. Her raw advice cuts through entrepreneurial fantasy and delivers the mindset shifts that actually move the revenue needle. In this episode we talk about the sunk cost fallacy that keeps founders throwing good money after bad, why perfectionist control freaks can't scale past themselves, and the offshore team management system that turns virtual assistants into revenue drivers. Prince breaks down her modified EOS approach, explains why most tool purchases are expensive mistakes, and reveals the uncomfortable truth about holding onto wrong-fit employees. Key Takeaways ➡ Sunk cost fallacy is the business killer: Stop doing what's not working regardless of investment ➡ Prince's client spent $250K building a custom ATS when Bullhorn already did the job ➡ Wrong people cost more than their salaries: They drag down your entire team's performance ➡ Perfectionism prevents scaling: Things won't be perfect even when you do them yourself ➡ One extra $30K placement covers an entire virtual assistant team for a year ➡ 75% of entrepreneurs don't know their breakeven point or if they're profitable ➡ Leadership must use the tools they buy: If you're not in the system, your team won't be either ➡ Vision assessment every 90 days: Your why can change, and that's okay ➡ Global talent misconception: Treating offshore workers as individuals, not geography stereotypes Chapters 00:00 – Intro and Diane's Background 02:47 – The $28M Sale Story 05:06 – Sunk Cost Fallacy Lesson 08:04 – Why Entrepreneurs Keep Failing 12:13 – Offshore Team Management 20:30 – Delegation Mindset Shifts 23:08 – EOS System Modifications 28:53 – Technology Tool Trap 36:41 – Scaling Uncomfortable Truths 40:17 – Business Timing Questions 46:48 – Common Leadership Blind Spots Sound Bites "If something is not working, stop doing it no matter what you've invested in it. You're always starting from scratch." "I hired someone from India and it was a disaster, so I'm never doing it again is the same as saying I hired someone from Texas and I'm never hiring from Texas again." "Salespeople who haven't done a deal in a year while founders aren't paying themselves because they feel guilty." Guest InfoName: Diane PrinceWebsite: dianeprince.coLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianeprincejohnston/ Expertise: Business acceleration coach specializing in staffing agencies and offshore team building

Ben Solomon has built something rare in recruiting: a sourcing team that works. After 18 years at Objective Partners, he's cracked the code on hiring, training, and scaling sourcing teams in both agency and RPO environments. This isn't theory from a consultant who job-hops every two years. This is battle-tested wisdom from someone who's hired dozens of sourcers and watched them succeed or fail. In this episode we discuss the counterintuitive hiring strategies that prioritize curiosity over technical skills, why liberal arts majors often outperform computer science graduates in sourcing roles, and Ben's specific interview questions that reveal research capabilities without testing Boolean knowledge. You'll hear about the "Merlin test" that exposes attention to detail, why museum and library experience trumps CRM knowledge, and how to build confidence in sourcers who need to switch between multiple clients daily. Key Takeaways ➡ Liberal arts majors (history, English, sociology, anthropology) consistently outperform in sourcing roles due to research and synthesis skills ➡ Museum, archive, and library experience is a stronger predictor of sourcing success than technical background ➡ The "Merlin test": Asking candidates to count people named Merlin in a database reveals if they catch that "Melinda" appears in results ➡ Ben's team of 17-18 people directly correlates to his 17-18 years of experience (one person per year of growth) ➡ Sourcers need hyperfocus ability but also rapid context-switching without taking changes personally ➡ AI recruiting spam has increased from zero to 4-5 text messages per week in just two years ➡ The biggest mistake: Ignoring hiring instincts when desperate to fill positions always backfires ➡ Sourcer-recruiter relationship management is more complex than most leaders anticipate ➡ Google Docs beats fancy PKM tools: "docs.new" creates instant documentation and knowledge capture ➡ Agency sourcers need confidence muscle: "I can take any job description and find kick-ass candidates" Chapters 00:00 – Intro & Atlanta Weather Report 02:07 – Ben's 17-Year Journey at Objective Partners 05:14 – What to Look for When Hiring Sourcers 13:32 – Knowledge Management & Organization Tools 19:25 – Interview Questions for Research Skills 25:38 – Leadership vs Individual Contributor Traits 31:00 – Training Philosophy: Fundamentals vs Shiny Objects 35:10 – AI Enhancement vs Distraction in Sourcing 46:13 – Centralized vs Dedicated Sourcing Models 50:50 – Corporate to Agency Transition Advice 54:02 – Guest Recommendations & Final Thoughts Sound Bites "You have to be able to really focus on one thing for an extended period of time, but also be able to shift focus. Really focus without getting bored or burnt out." - Ben Solomon "What happens if AI doesn't turn out the way everybody thinks it's going to? What if we're in an AI bubble and there's a collapse?" - Ben Solomon "We're all on the same team. We're all aiming for the same thing. There's a division of labor for a reason." - Ben Solomon Guest InfoName: Ben Solomon LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminsolomon/ Expertise: Sourcing team leader with 18+ years at Objective Partners, specializing in building and scaling sourcing functions across agency and RPO environments.

Marcel VanderMeer brings a refreshingly pragmatic European perspective to the AI automation conversation, cutting through the Silicon Valley hype with real-world implementation wisdom. This isn't another "AI will change everything" conversation. Instead, Marcel reveals why most successful "AI" projects are actually 80% traditional automation with just 20% machine learning sprinkled on top. In this episode we dive into the economics of automation, the hidden costs that blindside companies, and why the fastest path to ROI starts with fixing boring, repetitive tasks rather than building fantasy AI agents. Marcel shares frameworks for identifying genuine productivity gains versus expensive tech theater, plus real examples from European recruitment agencies that automated their way to 4-hour candidate delivery cycles. Key Takeaways ➡ 80% of successful AI implementations are actually basic automation, only 20% involves true machine learning ➡ Hidden automation costs include maintenance, token fees, training, integration, and documentation requirements ➡ European law now requires full AI documentation, creating accountability that US companies often skip ➡ The "AI agent" trend is mostly marketing fluff - real autonomous agents don't exist yet in practical business applications ➡ Quick wins beat grand visions: Focus on 90-day automation projects before building multi-year AI fantasies ➡ Companies that automate 2-day recruitment cycles down to 4 hours see immediate competitive advantages ➡ The biggest limitation isn't the technology - it's people not knowing what tasks to automate ➡ Red flag: When executives want to "replace everyone with agents" instead of improving specific processes ➡ Email and LinkedIn automation can save 400+ repetitive responses, but requires human-in-the-loop oversight ➡ Most automation ROI comes from eliminating boring tasks, not necessarily saving the most time per transaction Chapters 00:00 - Intro and Marcel's Background 02:47 - Evolution vs Revolution: Why AI Isn't That Different 05:49 - The Real Limitation is Human Imagination 07:26 - Separating Flashy Demos from Measurable Productivity 14:22 - Process Mapping: Start Here Before Any Automation 19:02 - Note-Taking and Summarization as Gateway Drugs 23:28 - Browser-Based AI and Multi-Tab Intelligence 29:40 - Red Flags: When Companies Want Surface-Level AI 33:23 - The 80/20 Rule Applied to AI vs Automation 44:30 - Hidden Costs That Destroy ROI 50:14 - Black Box Problem: When You Can't Fix What Breaks 54:26 - Revenue Generation vs Efficiency: What's the Difference? Sound Bites "The limitation of your possibilities is within yourself. It's not with the tool." - Marcel VanderMeer "People don't have an idea. They don't know what works. The biggest problem with AI is that people just don't ideate what could I do with this." - Shally Steckerl "There are no real AI agents now. There are agent look-alikes, but not real AI agents." - Marcel VanderMeer Guest Info Name: Marcel VanderMeerWebsite: klikwork.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcel-vd-meer/Expertise: European automation consultant specializing in recruitment agency process optimization and AI implementation roadmaps

David Jaramillo brings fifteen years of cross-industry recruiting wisdom to challenge everything you think you know about modern talent acquisition. From hospitality to finance to tech startups, he's seen how the fundamentals of human connection consistently outperform the latest recruiting technology. His insights on referrals, metrics that mislead, and the dangerous trap of culture fit will make you question your entire approach. In this episode we talk about transforming referral programs from afterthoughts into strategic powerhouses, why most executives obsess over meaningless metrics while missing what actually drives results, and the critical difference between hiring for culture fit versus culture add. David shares battle-tested frameworks for non-employee referrals, reveals which metrics actually mislead leadership teams, and explains when "people like us" thinking becomes toxic to innovation. Key Takeaways ➡ 90% of referrals come from the same 5-10% of employees in most companies ➡ Non-employee referrals often outperform employee referrals because they have no vested interest ➡ Time-to-fill is fundamentally flawed because it varies wildly based on role complexity and external factors ➡ Applicant-to-interview ratios mislead executives who focus on efficiency over quality outcomes ➡ Companies depending on single sourcing channels face catastrophic risk when that channel disappears ➡ Culture fit hiring led to product stagnation when entire teams couldn't adapt to rapid development methods ➡ Gamification of referral programs with point systems increased quality while reducing quantity ➡ Dashboard metrics show real-time data for operators; scorecard metrics show strategic progress for executives ➡ The "big red bus theory" applies to sourcing: lose your main channel, lose your pipeline ➡ Hiring for tomorrow's growth requirements beats filling today's immediate seat needs Chapters 00:00 - Intro and David's Background 02:47 - Why "Who Do You Know" Still Rules Recruiting 08:17 - Common Referral Mistakes Recruiters Make 12:30 - Reference Checks as Referral Goldmines 16:48 - Non-Employee Referral Strategies 24:32 - Metrics vs Meaning: What Misleads Executives 32:03 - Dashboard vs Scorecard Philosophy 41:04 - Culture Fit vs Culture Add Dilemma 52:27 - Who Should Be Our Next Guest 54:44 - Closing Question: Hire for Tomorrow Sound Bites "We're not hiring widgets. These aren't machines. We're hiring people, and people trust recommendations from people they know." "Better to find out it's not working at three months than twelve months. Better now than later." "Are we hiring for tomorrow's growth or just filling today's seats? That's the question that separates strategic recruiting from reactive seat-filling." Guest Info Name: David JaramilloCompany: Canyon Rach (Talent Acquisition Leader)LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/davidjaramilloExpertise one-liner: Cross-industry TA veteran who transforms referral programs and builds metrics frameworks that drive strategic hiring decisions across hospitality, finance, IT, and healthcare sectors.

What if getting laid off with a newborn was actually the best thing that ever happened to your career? Julia Arpag, CEO of a bootstrapped search firm, proves that massive career leaps and radical LinkedIn transparency can build a profitable recruiting business from scratch. Her unconventional approach to intake calls, candidate vetting, and hiring manager calibration is rewriting the playbook for elite talent acquisition. In this episode we talk about Julia's journey from AmeriCorps volunteer to startup CEO, her four-step technical vetting process that actually works, and why she believes LinkedIn content strategy is the ultimate free marketing machine. You'll hear exactly how she handles resistant hiring managers, scales organically without burning cash, and why measuring hires instead of activity metrics changed everything for her team. Key Takeaways: ➡ Julia received 6 job offers within 2 weeks of being laid off, which sparked her decision to start her own search firm ➡ 100% of her business growth came from LinkedIn transparency and content strategy - zero paid advertising ➡ Her intake calls include unusual questions about cultural add and emotional intelligence, not just technical skills ➡ Calibration calls within 48 hours of initial candidate profiles ensure radical alignment with hiring managers ➡ She maintains about 4 active candidates per requisition as the optimal pipeline metric ➡ Her 4-step technical vetting process: verbal screen, technical screen, take-home assessment, and evidence review ➡ Company scaled organically and profitably with just 6 team members: 1 director, 2 sourcers, 1 recruiter, 2 ops managers ➡ Compensation is tied directly to hires made, not activity metrics like emails sent or submittals ➡ Daily iteration of Boolean search strings and creative sourcing tactics uncover new prospect pools ➡ She advocates measuring decision support value even when recruiter candidates aren't ultimately hired Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 02:47 - From AmeriCorps to CEO: The Massive Career Leaps 08:15 - Getting Laid Off Led to 6 Job Offers in 2 Weeks 12:30 - LinkedIn Transparency as Free Marketing Strategy 18:45 - The Secret Sauce: Intake, Calibration, and Iteration 25:20 - Four-Step Technical Vetting Process 32:10 - Handling Resistant Hiring Managers 37:25 - Scaling Organically Without Burning Cash 42:15 - Why Hires Matter More Than Activity Metrics Sound Bites: "I took a course on LinkedIn posting the very day I decided to start my business - that transparency literally drove all my revenue." "Activity metrics like submittals and emails don't reflect true impact. Compensation should align with actual hires, period." Guest Info:Name: Julia ArpagWebsite: https://www.alignedrecruitment.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-arpag/Expertise: CEO of startup search firm specializing in elite technical recruiting and LinkedIn content strategy

Most recruiters are operating with blinders on, managing only full-time employees while ignoring 50% of their actual workforce. Jeff Mike, former head of human capital research at Deloitte, reveals how the "extended workforce" encompasses everything from contractors and gig workers to statement-of-work consultants, volunteers, and even AI agents. This isn't just about temps anymore - it's about completely reimagining how we deliver on work outcomes instead of just filling requisitions. In this episode we talk about the massive blind spot in talent acquisition that's costing companies millions in missed productivity and flawed analytics. Jeff breaks down the legal risks of co-employment and misclassification, explains why procurement has been running this show instead of HR, and reveals how smart recruiters can future-proof their careers by becoming true talent partners who deliver solutions, not just hires. Key Takeaways ➡ Extended workforce includes contractors, temps, gig workers, SOW consultants, volunteers, interns, and even AI agents - potentially 50% of your actual workforce ➡ Most companies track extended workforce spend through procurement, not HR, creating massive visibility gaps in people analytics ➡ Co-employment risk = treating contractors like employees; misclassification = putting workers in wrong tax categories ➡ Vendor Management Systems (VMS) like Beeline and Fieldglass were built as procurement tools, not people tools ➡ California's ABC classification test is the fastest way to educate yourself on contractor vs employee distinctions ➡ Statement-of-work resources from consulting firms often mask staff augmentation when direct hiring fails ➡ Future-proofed recruiters think "delivering on work outcomes" instead of "filling requisitions" ➡ People analytics is incomplete without extended workforce data - you're measuring half your actual productivity ➡ Business volatility and talent shortages are driving 60% of companies toward more flexible workforce models Chapters 00:00 - Intro & The Two First Names Problem 02:47 - What is Extended Workforce Really? 08:08 - Beyond Contractors: SOWs, Volunteers & AI Agents 12:44 - Where Recruiters Miss the Extended Workforce Boat 16:15 - Future-Proofing Your Recruiting Career 21:12 - Good Chaos vs Bad Chaos in Workforce Management 25:05 - Legal Landmines: Co-Employment & Misclassification 32:41 - Why Extended Workforce is Suddenly Mainstream 40:15 - Breaking Down Every Category: 1099s to PEOs 52:57 - The $2M Question: Why FTE Data Gets All the Love Sound Bites "You can't measure what you can't manage, but that doesn't mean don't manage it if there's not a measure developed yet." "If the contingent workforce is not in your people analytics, your people analytics is incomplete." "It's really about broadening your perspectives on what's the outcome and then what's the best category to get you to that outcome." Guest Name: Jeff MikeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-mike/Expertise: Extended workforce strategy expert and former head of human capital research at Deloitte, specializing in workforce analytics and talent acquisition optimization About Shally: srcn.co/me

Rusty Rueff, former CHRO at Electronic Arts and CEO of music startup Snowcap, reveals the hidden psychology behind managing elite creative talent and why most companies completely misunderstand what drives creators. From leading HR at one of the world's most innovative gaming companies to his dramatic career pivot into the CEO seat, Rusty shares hard-won insights about balancing commercial deadlines with creative freedom. Guest Name: Rusty Rueff Website: Author of "The Faith Code" LinkedIn: Former CHRO at Electronic Arts, Former CEO of Snowcap Expertise: Creative leadership, career reinvention, boardroom governance, and the intersection of faith and work SUMMARY In this episode we explore the intersection of creativity and commerce, the loneliness of executive leadership, and why treating recruiting as a strategic craft can literally change lives. Rusty breaks down the myth of the perfect candidate and shares his philosophy on building platforms of faith that can withstand career turbulence. Key Takeaways Creative people carry a "burden" to express themselves - it's not passion or choice, but a fundamental need that must be channeled within commercial constraints 5-6 years is the sweet spot for mastering talent acquisition - most people leave the field too early before developing true expertise Bad hires create generational distrust of corporations - when you uproot a family for a role that fails, children carry anti-corporate sentiment into their careers Board members' primary job is hiring the right CEO - everything else flows through that single critical decision There are no perfect candidates - companies fail by seeking flawless matches instead of understanding skill spectrums and coaching potential Career reinvention requires strategic timing - jumping too early means missing growth, waiting too long means never taking the leap The best candidate might already be down the hall - we chase "new shiny pennies" while overlooking internal talent who just need development Talent acquisition is one of the most impactful business roles - good recruiting changes dreams, bad recruiting destroys families Having a strong platform prevents life collapse - when career "apps" crash, people without solid foundations have nothing to fall back on Chapters 00:26 – Welcome & Reflecting on 20 Years of Change 08:13 – Managing Elite Creative Talent at Electronic Arts 18:05 – The Chef vs. Short-Order Cook Philosophy in Recruiting 21:15 – The Creative Burden: Writing, Art, and Releasing Inner Demons 26:05 – The Board's Ultimate Job: Hiring the Right CEO 29:57 – Career Reinvention as Strategy, Not Risk 31:38 – The Left Turn: From CHRO to CEO at Snowcap 40:08 – Why People Leave Talent Acquisition Too Early 42:29 – The Profound Impact of Good vs. Bad Hires 52:33 – The Myth of the Perfect Candidate 57:07 – The Faith Code: Building Life Platforms vs. Apps Sound Bites "Creative people have a burden to express their creativity - it's not passion, it's not choice, it's a burden." - Rusty Rueff "You can be two kinds of talent folks - a short order cook who fills orders, or a chef who creates experiences." - Rusty Rueff About Shally: srcn.co/me

Steve Bartel reveals why traditional recruiting tools are fundamentally broken and how AI-native platforms can revolutionize candidate relationships. From his engineering days at Facebook, Blizzard, and Dropbox to building one of the most innovative recruiting platforms, Steve shares the hard truths about why ATSs track requisitions instead of people and why bolt-on AI solutions miss the mark entirely. Guest: Steve Bartel, co-founder and CEO of GEM Website: GEM Platform LinkedIn: Connect with Steve Expertise: transforming recruiting through AI-native platform design and candidate relationship management SUMMARY In this episode we dive deep into the evolution from transactional hiring to relationship-driven recruiting, the ethics of AI decision-making in talent acquisition, and why every candidate deserves immediate, constructive feedback. Steve breaks down the massive blind spots most founders have about candidate experience and explains why treating recruiting like a product function isn't just smart business - it's the future of competitive hiring. Key Takeaways ➡ 70% of enterprise hires are already in their recruiting database - but companies can't unlock this talent goldmine because their systems suffer from institutional amnesia ➡ Recruiters now manage 55% more requisitions than three years ago while facing 3x higher application volumes, creating an impossible workload without AI assistance ➡ AI should elevate and rank candidates, never reject them - the moment AI makes hiring decisions, you cross an ethical line that undermines fair candidate treatment ➡ Traditional ATSs track requisitions, not people - they were built for compliance, not relationship management, which is why recruiting CRMs require completely different data models ➡ 30-50% of smaller company hires come from previous touchpoints in their database, proving that relationship nurturing beats constant new sourcing ➡ The hard part of AI isn't the algorithm anymore - it's having sufficient data context to make intelligent recommendations, which requires native integration ➡ Every applicant deserves timely feedback about their status - this should be table stakes, not a nice-to-have feature that most companies ignore ➡ Recruiting requires evergreen personal contact information - unlike sales CRMs that focus on work emails, recruiting success depends on tracking people across career moves ➡ AI can provide basic qualification matching at scale - but humans must handle nuanced decisions like citizenship requirements to avoid discrimination ➡ Immediate feedback is crucial for candidate experience - three months later, constructive criticism becomes meaningless noise Chapters 00:31 – Welcome & AI-Generated Theme Music Demo 03:23 – Steve's Background: From MIT Engineer to Recruiting Tech Founder 08:42 – The Dropbox Recruiting Experience That Changed Everything 12:17 – Why Traditional ATSs Are Fundamentally Broken 18:43 – The Birth of Recruiting CRMs and Salesforce Experiments 24:55 – AI Augmentation vs. Automation: Drawing the Line 31:57 – Ethics in AI Recruiting: Where Human Judgment Must Prevail 37:21 – Regulatory Challenges: GDPR vs. Trade Secrets 42:15 – Founder Blind Spots in Candidate Experience 48:13 – AI-Powered Qualification Matching at Scale 52:27 – Success Story: Enterprise AI Feedback Implementation Sound Bites "Any of us who got into recruiting, we're people people. We do it because we care about candidates and bringing in the right people. That's life-changing." - Steve Bartel "If I had a time machine, the first thing I'd do is abort the ATS. It literally exists only to mitigate risk and tracks requisitions, not applicants." - Shally Steckerl About Shally: ⁠srcn.co/me⁠

Guest Steve Bartel, co-founder and CEO of GEM, reveals why traditional recruiting tools are fundamentally broken and how AI-native platforms can revolutionize candidate relationships. From his engineering days at Facebook, Blizzard, and Dropbox to building one of the most innovative recruiting platforms, Steve shares the hard truths about why ATSs track requisitions instead of people and why bolt-on AI solutions miss the mark entirely. Summary In this episode we dive deep into the evolution from transactional hiring to relationship-driven recruiting, the ethics of AI decision-making in talent acquisition, and why every candidate deserves immediate, constructive feedback. Steve breaks down the massive blind spots most founders have about candidate experience and explains why treating recruiting like a product function isn't just smart business - it's the future of competitive hiring. Intro In this episode we talk about AI-native recruiting platforms, candidate experience optimization, recruiting CRM evolution, and decision support automation. Steve Bartel shares his journey from MIT engineer to recruiting tech innovator, explaining why traditional applicant tracking systems fundamentally fail at relationship management and how proper AI integration can transform both recruiter efficiency and candidate experience without replacing human judgment. Key Takeaways ➡ 70% of enterprise hires are already in their recruiting database - but companies can't unlock this talent goldmine because their systems suffer from institutional amnesia ➡ Recruiters now manage 55% more requisitions than three years ago while facing 3x higher application volumes, creating an impossible workload without AI assistance ➡ AI should elevate and rank candidates, never reject them - the moment AI makes hiring decisions, you cross an ethical line that undermines fair candidate treatment ➡ Traditional ATSs track requisitions, not people - they were built for compliance, not relationship management, which is why recruiting CRMs require completely different data models ➡ 30-50% of smaller company hires come from previous touchpoints in their database, proving that relationship nurturing beats constant new sourcing ➡ The hard part of AI isn't the algorithm anymore - it's having sufficient data context to make intelligent recommendations, which requires native integration ➡ Every applicant deserves timely feedback about their status - this should be table stakes, not a nice-to-have feature that most companies ignore ➡ Data science recruiting in 2012-2013 was chaos - the field was so nascent that role definitions didn't exist and sourcing was nearly impossible ➡ Regulatory amnesia is sometimes mandated - GDPR and data retention laws force some recruiting memory loss, but smart systems can retain limited context legally ➡ Recruiting requires evergreen personal contact information - unlike sales CRMs that focus on work emails, recruiting success depends on tracking people across career moves ➡ AI can provide basic qualification matching at scale - but humans must handle nuanced decisions like citizenship requirements to avoid discrimination ➡ Immediate feedback is crucial for candidate experience - three months later, constructive criticism becomes meaningless noise Chapters 00:31 – Welcome & AI-Generated Theme Music Demo 03:23 – Steve's Background: From MIT Engineer to Recruiting Tech Founder 08:42 – The Dropbox Recruiting Experience That Changed Everything 12:17 – Why Traditional ATSs Are Fundamentally Broken 18:43 – The Birth of Recruiting CRMs and Salesforce Experiments 24:55 – AI Augmentation vs. Automation: Drawing the Line 31:57 – Ethics in AI Recruiting: Where Human Judgment Must Prevail 37:21 – Regulatory Challenges: GDPR vs. Trade Secrets 42:15 – Founder Blind Spots in Candidate Experience 48:13 – AI-Powered Qualification Matching at Scale 52:27 – Success Story: Enterprise AI Feedback Implementation 56:05 – Next Guest: Luke Eaton Sound Bites "Any of us who got into recruiting, we're people people. We do it because we care about candidates and bringing in the right people. That's life-changing." - Steve Bartel "If I had a time machine, the first thing I'd do is abort the ATS. It literally exists only to mitigate risk and tracks requisitions, not applicants." - Shally Steckerl "AI should give every candidate an equal shot regardless of when they applied, because the best candidate might be applicant number 2,000." - Steve Bartel Guest Info Name: Steve Bartel Website: GEM Platform LinkedIn: Connect with Steve Expertise: Co-founder & CEO of GEM, transforming recruiting through AI-native platform design and candidate relationship management Connect with Shally: About Shally: srcn.co/me Shally's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shally/ Shally @ Riviera Advisors: https://rivieraadvisors.com/staff-member/shally-steckerl/ TSI University: https://www.tsiuniversity.com/ TSI University On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/school/3043565/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shallycanfind Instagram: https://instagram.com/thesteckerls Discord: https://discordapp.com/users/sourcingsensei_31495

🎙️ Meet Bill Malcolm: AI Strategist. TA Transformer. Human Capital Futurist.William doesn't talk about the future of AI in recruiting. He's built it. He cut onboarding time by 58%, saved $12M in labor costs, and built GPT-powered tools that changed how HR works from the inside out at one of the largest cancer centers. From resume screeners and onboarding bots to ethical AI use in healthcare hiring, this conversation hits hard and goes deep. - How he built a “Cleared-to-Hire” system that slashed delays - What AI can’t do and why that matters even more- How to blend recruiter experience with machine learning without losing your value - The red line: where not to let AI make the call

🎙️ Meet Rob Beck, trusted friend of 20+ years and among the sharpest sourcing minds I’ve ever worked with.Rob’s journey has taken him from building client teams at Grep Staff (yes, he founded it!) to solving complex data and measurement hiring challenges at Ibotta, where he now leads as a Staff Technical Sourcer. https://www.linkedin.com/in/grep4robbeck/⁠ If you’re in product, data science, or measurement at the edge of consumer engagement, Rob’s your guy. We’ve got a lot to talk about, and if you’re a TA leader, you’ll want in on this: - Why “data-driven” hiring is broken—and how to fix it - What it really takes to build a sourcing engine that scales without burning out your team - How to blend relationship recruiting with automation (without losing your soul) His roots go deep. From full-cycle recruiting to talent strategy, he knows how to find the needle and fix the haystack.Cheers, Rob. Honored to know you, proud to share the stage with you again bro!#TechRecruiting #SourcingExcellence #Ibotta #DataScienceJobs #ShallysAlley #TalentAcquisition

🎙️ Meet Nicole Roberts, the HR whisperer for founders, investors, and execs who actually want their people strategy to work. Nicole isn’t your average HR pro. She’s the first call when a CEO needs more than compliance. When they need culture clarity, systems that scale, and leaders who can lead. From launching People Solutions Group to teaching at HCI and spotlighting job seekers on Amplify Your Signal, Nicole’s built a reputation for turning chaos into cohesion, and doing it with heart. On this Shally’s Alley, we’ll unpack: ✅ How to build HR from scratch in fast-moving, PE-backed orgs ✅ What execs misunderstand about “people-first” culture ✅ How HR can earn a real seat at the strategy table ✅ Leadership development that sticks She builds. She coaches. She challenges assumptions. And she’s bringing 🔥 insight for anyone trying to lead through complexity.

Shally Steckerl sits down with fellow sourcing pioneer Jim Stroud for a no-BS conversation about the real impact of AI on recruiting, the economic forces reshaping talent acquisition, and why personal branding trumps any technology. This isn't your typical AI-will-save-us-all discussion. Instead, two industry veterans who've weathered every tech revolution share hard truths about what's actually happening in the market right now. In this episode we talk about the inevitable collapse of generative AI models, why LinkedIn response rates have plummeted from 85% to 15%, the surprising unemployment surge among computer engineers, and the real reason companies are forcing return-to-office mandates. Jim and Shally dissect everything from wind turbine technician demand to the psychology of personal branding, delivering actionable insights for both recruiters struggling with over-automation and job seekers trapped in the application black hole. Guest Name: Jim Stroud Website: ⁠jimstroud.com⁠LinkedIn: ⁠JimStroud⁠ Expertise: Digital anthropologist, sourcing futurist, and recruiting innovation strategist who predicted major industry trends and disruptions. KEY TAKEAWAYS ➡ Computer engineering unemployment hit 7.5% - a field once considered bulletproof is now struggling due to AI disruption and economic overcorrection ➡ LinkedIn response rates crashed from 85% target to 15% satisfaction rate, signaling the platform's declining effectiveness ➡ Wind turbine service technicians top job growth at 60%, followed by solar installers - green energy roles are exploding while tech contracts ➡ AI interview outsourcing misses critical human elements like detecting genuine enthusiasm versus desperation in candidate responses ➡ The "collapse of generative AI" is inevitable due to recursive content cycles - specialized AI tools will emerge but won't replace human judgment ➡ Personal branding beats Boolean strings - what people remember about you five years later defines your career trajectory more than any sourcing technique ➡ Job seekers should shift from hunting to attracting by creating content, speaking at events, and building thought leadership rather than mass applying ➡ Remote work compensation needs adjustment - if companies mandate office return after hiring remotely, they must increase pay to offset commuting costs ➡ Companies engaged in "hedge hiring" during COVID boom - hiring talent to block competitors rather than for actual business needs, leading to current layoffs ➡ LinkedIn will eventually die like Monster and CareerBuilder - the future belongs to distributed search across multiple personal websites and platforms CHAPTERS 00:37 - Intro & Jim Stroud Introduction 2:15 - The Creativity Behind Sourcing 3:11 - AI Taking Over Job Descriptions 6:01 - The Problem with Template-Based Hiring 8:45 - When AI Should Handle Interviews (And When It Shouldn't) 12:30 - The Inevitable Collapse of Generative AI 17:08 - Why Technology Never Actually Replaces Jobs 21:57 - Tech Layoffs and Economic Reality Check 28:06 - Job Market Growth Areas: Wind Turbines to Data Science 29:10 - From Job Hunting to Job Attracting 34:51 - Remote Work Economics and Return-to-Office Reality 39:40 - Boolean Survival: Old School vs New School 43:49 - The Death of LinkedIn and What Comes Next 51:60 - Personal Branding as Career Currency Jim Stroud: "The more you integrate technology, you sort of lose a little bit of yourself. If you don't put your own special sauce on it, what's really the carrot to attract somebody to your job?" Shally Steckerl: "LinkedIn response rates crashed from 85% to 15%. LinkedIn is gonna die - there's no tool that has been there forever, and LinkedIn is not going to be that one either." Jim Stroud: "Change your mindset from looking for a job to attracting a job. Write content about something you're passionate about, speak at meetups, showcase your expertise - make people reach out to you."

🎙️ Meet CoSandra Dent a respected corporate Talent Acquisition leader who transitioned from shaping TA at major corporations to building something of her own with CoCreate Solutions. She was my boss at Fiserv for five years, so I’ve seen firsthand how she balances sharp leadership with genuine connection (and a great sense of humor). CoSandra has spent years leading large-scale TA functions, navigating corporate complexities, and now she’s helping companies rethink their talent strategies on her own terms. 🔥 In this episode, we’re covering: - The reality of leading TA at major corporations (the good, the bad, and the absurd) - Why she made the leap to solopreneurship and what she’s learned along the way - What corporate TA leaders misunderstand about working independently Join us for a conversation packed with real talk, sharp insights, and maybe a few “I probably shouldn’t say this out loud” moments.

🎙️ Meet Ryan Englin the blue-collar hiring whisperer behind Core Matters. corematters.com/podcasts/ If you think the skilled trades talent shortage is just a pipeline problem, Ryan will challenge that fast. He’s helped hundreds of business owners ditch job boards and outdated tactics in favor of recruitment marketing that actually works — especially for essential, boots-on-the-ground roles. With Ryan, hiring isn’t HR’s job. It’s everyone’s job — and your culture is your magnet. Join us on Shally’s Alley as we unpack: - Why “post and pray” is dead - How to attract top-tier hourly talent — without raising wages - What most companies miss when recruiting in trades, logistics, and field ops - How to turn employees into recruiters and candidates into believers

🎙️ Meet Terry Terhark, the recruiting rebel who’s been reshaping talent acquisition for decades. Terry doesn’t just talk about change, he builds it. From founding pioneering RPO firms to leading innovations at NXTThing RPO and PeopleScout, he’s been at the frontlines of what works (and what doesn’t) in recruitment. Now, with the power of data, automation, and high-touch engagement, Terry is on a mission to make hiring faster, fairer, and smarter, especially for companies ready to stop chasing candidates and start attracting them. Join us on Shally’s Alley as we dig into: - What RPO gets right (and where it still falls short) - How AI is transforming high-volume and niche recruiting - Why recruiters must think like marketers and act like analysts - Where the talent market is heading next

🎙️ Meet Dart Lindsley: Work is a product architect. 45 million people quit their jobs each year, but Dart says the real crisis is not turnover but the working dead… employees who’ve emotionally checked out but still show up. That’s where the damage is done. 🔁 Enter Multi-Sided Management, Dart’s groundbreaking framework for rethinking work itself. Not as a job to be filled, but as an experience to be designed and sold to employees. 👤 CEO of 11fold, host of the Work for Humans podcast, former Head of Global Process Excellence at Google, and a forever fellow at Mira, Dart has spent decades decoding how to make work work better. 💡 Join us on Shally’s Alley as we explore: ✅ Why most management models are outdated ✅ How to design work that people actually want ✅ What recruiters and leaders must do to fight disengagement ✅ The bold future of employee experience as product design

🎙️ Meet Alex Marcus, recognized innovator in TA and HR technology. Founjder of System Admin Insights and Integral Recruiting Design, Alex has pioneered community-driven solutions for system administrators and advance recruiting strategies. He has implemented sourcing performance models to leveraging data and navigate market changes. Alex will share his unique insights on sourcing performance, industry shifts, and how data-driven approaches are reshaping the recruiting landscape. Don’t miss this opportunity to gain actionable knowledge from a leader who’s driving the future of talent acquisition. ✅ How market shifts impact sourcing performance ✅ The role of data in modern sourcing strategies ✅ Emerging trends in talent acquisition technology

Michael Beygelman is a serial entrepreneur, workforce technology innovator, and expert in the intersection of AI, automation, and HR. He is best known as the founder and CEO of Claro Analytics, a talent market intelligence platform that provides real-time labor market insights to help companies make better strategic workforce decisions. Claro was acquired by WilsonHCG in 2022, where Michael now leads innovation efforts as EVP of Product. Prior to Claro, he held executive roles at Adecco, Pontoon, and TalentFusion, consistently pushing the envelope on using data and technology to optimize workforce strategies.

Christine turns the tables and interviews Shally in this episode. Come listen to advice on metrics, why measurements are not metrics, and how AI is not going to eliminate sourcing.

Mike is one of the very few Talent Acquisition leaders who has built a billion-dollar staffing program for the government. His industry experience includes leading TA strategy at Booz Allen and Leidos (formerly SAIC). Mike has been quoted in HR Magazine, The Military Times, and USA Today. He’s been a guest on Federal News Radio’s “Fed Access” Show. He’s been featured on the Pentagon Channel’s “Hiring America” television show. Mike currently sites on the Board of Directors for RecruitDC. Worked Accross the Intelligence Community and DOD. staffing effort for a major program in excess of $1 billion.

Joel Zeff Live on Shally's Alley 🎉 STOP EVERYTHING—It’s TA DA Time! 🎉 When was the last time you truly celebrated a win at work? Not just an empty thumbs-up emoji but a full-on, jump-up, “TA DA!” moment? Yeah. Thought so. This week on Shally’s Alley we ring in the celebration with JOEL ZEFF, improv master, workplace culture guru, and comedic genius who made the IRS laugh so hard the cried. Lets blow the roof off “business as usual” and talk about: 🎭 How improv thinking makes you a better leader and recruiter 🎯 Why tiny wins deserve BIG celebrations 😂 Turning stress into success without saying “synergy” 🚀 Building a culture that makes work fun without trust falls 💡 This episode will have you laughing, rethinking success, and possibly screaming “TA DA” in meetings from now on.

Bob Pulver Live on Shally's Alley 🎙️ AI is Here. Are You Ready? AI is disrupting hiring, recruiting, HR, leadership, and the way we work. But let’s be real: Most people are faking AI fluency. Bob Pulver is our guest this week on Shally’s Alley, someone who actually gets it. Not an AI hype man; he’s the real deal when it comes to Responsible AI, AI Readiness, and the Future of Work. If you’re still asking, “What’s ChatGPT?” you’re already behind. But don’t worry, we got you. 🔥 Here’s what Bob and I are unpacking: ✅ AI IQ: Stop sounding clueless about AI ✅ Hype vs. Reality: What’s real, what’s BS, and what’s next ✅ HR & Hiring: Who gets replaced, who levels up This ain't another AI fairy tale. It’s a raw, no-BS conversation about what leaders, recruiters, and innovators must know to stay ahead. No fluff. No AI hallucinations.

Search engines aren’t neutral; their algorithms influence which candidates you find. Understanding this helps you outsmart the system instead of being limited by it. Learn how to get around this bias in six minutes on this episode of Shally's Edge. Register now for The Art & Science of Personal Networking: Tactical Playbook for Strategic Influence on crowdcast, scheduled to go live on March 27, 2025, 10:00 AM PDT. https://www.crowdcast.io/c/shally-jobin-cloud

This week on Shally's Alley we're talking about everything you didn't know that you wanted to know about making referrals into a superpower with special guest Tawfiq Abu-Khajil Co-founder of eqorefer.com. A UK expat with a law brackground formerly from iCIMS and Qualifi, Tawfiq will share tips on how to increase your frontline employee engagement though referrals while minimizing manual tracking.

Tara Noonan Amaral from Riviera Advisors! on Shally’s Alley 🎙️ Tara is the kind of talent leader you always learn from. Her career spans corporate recruiting leadership and RPO, driving strategic talent at Marsh & McLennan, Fidelity, New York Life, ADP, and AON/Hewitt. A Six Sigma and Agile project manager, she's held leadership roles in financial services with JPMorgan Chase, as well as advised organizations like ATAP, SHRM and The Conference Board. If you care about making TA a true business driver, you can’t miss this one. We’re going to break down: ✅ Building world-class internal recruiting functions (and why so many companies get it wrong) ✅ Aligning talent strategies with long-term business success (this is next-level thinking) ✅ What great talent leaders do differently to drive real impact Tara's practical, no-BS insights are at home on Shally’s Alley. No fluff, just straight talk. 📅 Don’t miss it! And tell us in the comments: What’s the biggest hiring challenge on your plate right now? 👇 #ShallysAlley #TalentSourcing #Recruiting #Hiring #TalentAcquisition #RecruitmentLeadership #RivieraAdvisors

🎙️ Meet the recruitment industry’s original college recruiting disruptor and the mastermind behind College Recruiter, Stephen Rothberg For 30+ years he has been on a mission to revolutionize early-career hiring, helping employers connect with the next generation of top talent. As the visionary founder of College Recruiter, he’s led the charge in data-driven recruitment marketing, programmatic job advertising, and scaling student hiring strategies that actually work. This Friday on Shally’s Alley, we’re cutting through the noise and getting real about: ✅ How DOGE is impacting early career recruitment ✅ Programmatic job advertising: hype or game-changer? ✅ What Gen Z job seekers actually want (hint: it’s not what you think) No fluff, just straight talk from one of the sharpest minds in recruiting. Bring your toughest questions – Stephen isn’t afraid to challenge the status quo.

Jeff Hunter Live on Shally's Alley

🎙️ Meet Ryan Affolter—a recruitment marketing and employer brand trailblazer with over 20 years of experience in digital marketing, talent attraction, and HR tech. Ryan has led award-winning initiatives at Jobs2Web, SAP SuccessFactors, Talroo, Life Time, and Proactive Talent. If you want to understand programmatic recruitment, employer branding, and cutting-edge hiring strategies, join us and ask Ryan! 🎙️ Meet Christine Hampton—a TA leader with 30+ years of experience, specializing in healthcare recruitment and sourcing. Christine has a doctorate in business administration and has mastered identifying, engaging, and hiring top clinical and non-clinical talent. Join us and ask Christine about her innovative sourcing strategies and expert insights on healthcare hiring. 💡 What to Expect? ✅ Digital marketing for recruitment ✅ Latest trends in employer branding ✅ New insights on healthcare recruitment

On the next episode of Shally’s Alley, I’m bringing in someone who’s been in the trenches, leading, advising, and transforming talent acquisition strategies across the globe, Paul Norman from Riviera Advisors! 🎙️ Paul is one of those rare TA leaders who’s seen it all—corporate recruiting, agency-side hustle, and now, top-tier consulting. If you’re serious about optimizing your high-volume recruiting function, elevating your employer brand, and driving strategic hiring outcomes, don't miss this. We’re going to dig into: ✅ How organizations can move from reactive high-volume hiring to proactive talent pipelining ✅ The biggest mistakes TA leaders make (and how to avoid them) ✅ What the best recruiters do differently to win top talent Paul’s perspective is real, insightful, and always practical—exactly what we love on Shally’s Alley. You don’t just get theories here; you get real-world, actionable insights from the best in the business.

Breaking Free from the Talent Abundance Trap Do you feel like you are just overwhelmed with applicants these days? You're not alone. A shift has to happen from a catch-all approach of chasing every viable candidate to a strategic approach that focuses on targeted interactions with the best talent. Join Ravi as he and Shally discus the findings published in Shally's recent white paper: Breaking Free from the Talent Abundance Trap.

"Not a life coach" Tim Sackett probably has a trademark on the phrase ‘I told you so’ in HR circles. A legend in Talent Acquisition and proud dad, Tim who could probably negotiate a better deal for his kids’ allowance than most of us could for our salaries. He’s also a writer, speaker, and wearer of dad sneakers with unmatched confidence. In the "war for talent" Tim’s the guy you want advising your Generals, or at least bringing them donuts. Get ready for a conversation that’s equal parts insightful, entertaining, and just the right amount of HR snark. Welcome to the podcast, Tim! Quick perspective on GenAI, Agents and AGI for HR Tech Machine Learning - early AI, people teach it what to do and it does more of it GenAI is LLMs and ChatGPT, the predict from loads of input. Copilots or assistants can remind you of things but not do anything FOR you, eg. chatbots. Agents take action and activate things on your behalf AGI is "smart" machines, independent thought. This is only theoretical at this time. What do we do when AI takes our job away? What could we do. Ghost job / Fake Job, Career Influencers that Lie Are recruiters really ghosting candidates, AI Applications lead to recruiter ghosting As someone who writes extensively about talent acquisition, what’s a common piece of advice you see in the industry that you disagree with, and what would you recommend instead?”

Industry powerhouse Tracey Friend blends strategic insight with human connection. A tenacious talent leader with a proven track record of elevating recruitment and a career spanning from Talent Sourcing Innovation to TA leadership roles. Tracey makes complex challenges seem solvable and exciting.  Today we're going to peel back the layers on her journey, her insights on modern recruitment trends, and her vision for the future of talent acquisition.

In this episode we welcome Fletcher Wimbush, CEO of The Hire Talent and an expert in pre-employment assessments. Delve into the art and science of identifying top talent as Fletcher shares actionable tips for selecting top talent.

This week on Shally's Alley we dive into AWS Certification with Ray. Not just a tech talk; it's your ticket to understanding certifications. Tune in for an unfiltered, witty, and wisdom-packed conversation. hashtag #AWS #CloudComputing #RecruitmentTech #ShallysAlley

Adam Godson brings a rare combination to the recruiting world: a poetry background, entertainment industry experience, and deep expertise in design thinking and digital transformation. Working at Recruiting Advisors, he challenges assumptions about how we build and buy recruiting technology. This conversation rips apart the broken procurement process that gives us systems nobody wants to use, and offers a pragmatic path forward using design principles that actually work. In this episode we talk about why most ATSs fail their users, how to apply design thinking to recruiting operations, the critical difference between user experience and candidate experience, and why sometimes making things harder to use actually improves outcomes. Adam shares real examples from his work at Viacom/Paramount and explains how asking better questions upfront prevents expensive tech disasters down the road. Key Takeaways: ➡ Turning off LinkedIn Easy Apply reduced applications by 86% (from 14,000 to 2,000 per month) but dramatically increased pass-through rates and candidate quality. ➡ Most ATS implementations fail because companies select technology before defining actual user requirements and workflows. ➡ Design thinking isn't about making everything easy. Sometimes friction is intentional. The goal is making things intuitive for your intended user. ➡ Your target user might not be everyone. Good design can deliberately exclude the wrong people (like unqualified mass applicants). ➡ The best time to apply design principles is before you buy the system, not after when you're trying to fix what's broken. ➡ User experience (recruiter-facing) and candidate experience (applicant-facing) are different problems requiring different solutions. ➡ Poetry and recruiting have more in common than you'd think. Both require telling compelling stories with as few words as possible. ➡ Most technical requirement checklists are backwards. They focus on features the vendor offers rather than problems the business needs to solve. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro and Meet Adam Godson 02:47 – From Poetry to Recruiting: An Unexpected Journey 06:30 – Design Thinking Fundamentals for Recruiting Systems 14:15 – Why Most ATS Implementations Fail 22:40 – The LinkedIn Easy Apply Experiment 28:30 – User Experience vs Candidate Experience 35:20 – Design Principles That Actually Work 42:10 – The Backwards Tech Procurement Problem 48:50 – When Making Things Harder Is Better Design 53:20 – Final Thoughts and Weekend Challenge Sound Bites: "I don't like saying that I'm a thought leader. It just irks me. I like to say that I'm a thought provoker." "We went from 14,000 applications per month, half of which were duplicates, to less than 2,000 applications per month. The pass-through rates went up and the number of qualified candidates went up." "Your user base or your target user may not be everyone. If you want certain people not to interact, you want to limit the scope of who's coming in as opposed to broadening it." Guest Info: Name: Adam GodsonCompany: Recruiting AdvisorsLinkedIn: [Connect with Adam]Expertise: Digital transformation consultant specializing in design thinking, recruiting operations, and systems optimization. Former Viacom/CBS/Paramount talent leader with a unique background in poetry and screenwriting.

This episode separates order-taking recruiters from true business partners. Alan Floor brings 20+ years of agency and corporate experience, including his role as the only recruiter at a major commercial construction firm where he trains non-recruiters to source. The conversation gets into the real work: understanding the business deeply enough to challenge hiring decisions, spot red flags other recruiters miss, and build credibility that gets you emergency calls at 7pm on Friday. In this episode we talk about the difference between agency and corporate recruiting cultures, why learning your industry matters more than perfecting Boolean strings, and how Alan placed a candidate at 2:30am on Saturday to fix a security disaster another recruiter created. You'll hear why he advocates for candidates he believes in, warns clients about sketchy candidates (even with perfect resumes), and how he convinced a VP to hire a "den mother" over technically stronger candidates because he understood what the team needed. Key Takeaways: ➡ Alan is the only recruiter at W.E. O'Neill Construction (6 years) and trains non-recruiters in other offices how to source and build candidate relationships. ➡ He co-founded The Talent Collective with Brett Fieg during COVID, a weekly Thursday meetup (1pm PT) where 25-30 unemployed recruiters helped each other get hired. ➡ Agency recruiting teaches hustle and deep market knowledge. Corporate recruiting rewards consistency and process adherence. ➡ When non-recruiters do recruiting work, they panic over normal candidate behavior (negotiating offers, backing out). Teaching them builds empathy. ➡ Alan rejected a candidate with a "big red mark" because something felt off. Client hired them anyway. Two months later, that hire was a hacker who compromised trading systems. Alan got the 7pm Friday emergency call to find a replacement who started at 2:30am Saturday. ➡ Real credibility comes from saying "I can't put my finger on it, but something's not right" and being proven right. ➡ Sometimes your job is providing a second candidate so hiring managers have a choice, even if yours doesn't get hired. ➡ Alan convinced a VP to hire "Linda" as help desk leader not for technical skills, but because the team (three conflicting company cultures) needed a "den mother" who could communicate and collaborate. Chapters: 00:00 - Intro and Alan Floor's Background 02:47 - From Agency to Corporate: What Transfers and What Doesn't 10:00 - Training Non-Recruiters to Recruit 15:30 - The Talent Collective and Giving Back During COVID 25:00 - Clubhouse and Building Industry Credibility 45:00 - Agency Culture vs. Corporate Culture 58:00 - The 2AM Hacker Story and Due Diligence 65:00 - The Den Mother Hire and Reading What Teams Really Need 75:00 - Closing Thoughts Guest Info: Name: Alan FloorCompany: W.E. O'Neill ConstructionTitle: Talent Executive ManagerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanfluhrer/Expertise: Agency-to-corporate recruiting transitions, training non-recruiters, commercial construction talent strategy, and building recruiting credibility through business acumen. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Amazon Music⁠⁠ About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ Follow Shally on LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠