The Dad & Daughter Connection

This week on the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with John Francis, founder of Father's Eve and proud dad of two daughters, for a heartfelt conversation on what it truly takes to connect with our daughters and nurture their growth into confident, independent women. Whether you're a first-time dad or a seasoned parent looking for fresh inspiration, this episode is packed with wisdom, real-life stories, and actionable advice that will resonate long after you listen. One of the central themes of this episode is vulnerability. John Francis recounts a powerful moment when he allowed his daughters to see him grieve and express emotion about the loss of his own father—a memory that not only brought the family closer but gave his daughters permission to be honest about their feelings as well. As Dr. Christopher Lewis highlights, modeling vulnerability to our daughters breaks down barriers, opens up deeper connections, and provides a living example that it's okay to be real and open as men. The show also explores the importance of intentional parenting. John Francis emphasizes being truly present, stepping away from the "helicopter" parenting style, and letting kids learn through natural consequences 05:27. By designing his work and life to allow for more time with his children, he's witnessed the value of being available and engaged throughout their childhood—something he encourages all dads to strive for. Perhaps most touching are the actionable ideas shared: from creating regular one-on-one time with each daughter, to writing handwritten letters at major milestones, John Francis offers practical ways to strengthen bonds during both the joyful and challenging times. He's candid about his own parenting mistakes, revealing how seeking family therapy and learning patience have helped him foster a healthier, happier home environment. Finally, don't miss the inspiring story behind Father's Eve—a growing movement that gives dads a special night to connect, share, and celebrate each other just before Father's Day. John Francis invites all fathers to get involved ("It's fun, it's free, it's everywhere!") and reminds us that being a great dad is about showing up, listening, and always striving to grow. If you're looking for encouragement or practical tips for your own fatherhood journey, tune in to this episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection"—and start building the relationship your daughter will cherish for years to come. Listen now! If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on these relationships, relationships that you want to build with your daughter. And it is a journey because each one of us is on a journey to be able to become the best dad that we want to be. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]: But on top of that, we have to put in the time, the effort to be able to build those solid relationships, because the relationship between a father and a daughter is a really important one, and you and I both know that. But we have to be present, we have to be in it to win it, and we have to be willing to learn and to grow to be able to become the dads that we want to be. And that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences to be able to have them share some of their own journey in being a dad to a daughter. And today we got another great guest. John Francis is with us, and John is the founder of Father's Eve, or we're going to be talking about Father's Eve, because Father's Eve is coming up here in not too long. And. But even more important, he is a father of two daughters, so we're going to be talking about his own relationship and experiences with his daughters, as well as what he's done with Father's Eve, and I'm really excited to have him here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]: Thanks so much for being here, John. John Francis [00:02:06]: Thank you. I appreciate it, Christopher. I'm glad to be here and be on your podcast. I love it. Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to have you here today, and I appreciate you being here. To be honest, John has been on podcasts with me for many years. We. I've had him on a couple of other podcasts along the way, so I always love being able to reconnect with John. And this time we're going to be talking about a few different things in regards to your relationship with your daughters. I guess the first. First question that I love to start these conversations with is, as you think about the relationship that you've had with your daughters, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with each of your daughters and what made it so special? John Francis [00:02:47]: Wow, that's a really good question. Hard to think about just one or the most. I'll think about something. I guess what's coming to my mind is they've seen me be vulnerable in a personal way, and I just remember the look on their face. I was having a memory about my dad. I lost my dad when I was 26, and I lost my brother just a few years later when I was 29, before I ever got married and well, before I ever had kids. And we were at home one day and I don't know what we were talking about. It might have been my dad's birthday or a holiday or something. John Francis [00:03:19]: And I was telling stories about my dad and how much I missed him and the sadness and the grief. And I can feel it now just thinking about it. I teared up and I was. Let it out, you know, just let it. I didn't stifle it. I just said, you know, I gotta let this out. And. And it was fine. John Francis [00:03:35]: It was natural and appropriate. And I think I've learned how to. That's living experience, let that happen. And. And they weren't little, but they were young. But they were old enough to see that, gee, that dad doesn't do that very often. And we talked about it kind of in the moment and then a little bit after, and I felt good about it because I think they realized that, oh, wow, it's okay, look, here's our dad. And we have typical kind of household environment here. John Francis [00:04:00]: But anyway, it was a moment where they saw me as regular, real human who has emotion and can express them. And it's not always just, rah, rah, let's go crazy. Was here's dad really dealing with grief over his father? And anyway, it was a meaningful moment. And I remember in the moment thinking, I'm gonna just do this and let it happen and talk about it because I want them to see it. So it was intentional, but I was intentionally natural. I don't know if that makes any sense. I didn't stifle it. I think a lot of guys, or a lot of maybe in the past I would have Said, well, you know what, we're going to talk about something else or move on or I wouldn't hold it. John Francis [00:04:35]: But I. Anyway, I feel like that was a meaningful moment and I. We all kind of grew together and an understanding that it's okay to be real and be emotional and express that, especially when you're together with your family. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:47]: It is really important because so many times men have a tendency to compartmentalize and we don't always share things. And I've said over and over again on this podcast the importance of being vulnerable and showing our daughters that men can be vulnerable and pushing ourselves out of our comfort zones in that way. Because ultimately, as you found as well, you're going to find that that vulnerability opens you up and your daughters up to more connection and that becomes even more important in the end. John Francis [00:05:20]: Yeah, I agree 100%. I can think of a few other moments that we've had that were meaningful, but maybe not in the same sense. But I'm a lucky guy that I've been able to. I designed my lifestyle, frankly, to be able to work from home when my kids were little and when they were old enough to start paying attention, I was really able to be full present as a dad, engaged at their schools and involved in their lives. Not helicopter snowplow parents, but fully available and to the point where it was like, well, that's just normal. Doesn't everyone have mom and dad who kind of do this? And then when they were old enough to realize that, boy, that's not common. Not every mom and dad have this kind of availability, I'll call it. So it was intentional for me and I'm just so grateful because we've got that kind of connection and relationship and I think it was good for all of us. John Francis [00:06:09]: And I'm just grateful to be able to make the choice and. And conscious enough to make the choice, you know, because a lot of guys just aren't, aren't, aren't thinking about it that way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:22]: You know, now every one of us as fathers want to be able to do what we can to be able to help our daughters to become who they're becoming. How did you balance guiding your daughters while still giving them the independence to grow into the people that they inevitably becoming? John Francis [00:06:43]: Well, that's another great question. I don't know that a lot of it was really conscious, but I think that what's coming through my mind is there were moments where I let them learn a lesson where I didn't just solve the problem or I didn't make Them see the problem. I let them just experience what I'll call natural consequences to different situations, good and bad, not to shield them or protect them from reality. And I think, honestly, my girls have learned to handle themselves and handle situations. They've got tremendous confidence and. And they are interesting. You know, they know who they are and what they want, and they're not afraid. And I think a lot of that confidence came from letting them just be who they are and solve their, whatever problems in life. John Francis [00:07:26]: I mean, not that I wasn't. I was there, but it was more or less an approach of just letting them experience life on their own terms. And they're very different. Of course. Every child is different. Even though they're siblings and they grew up in the same era, in the same house and, you know, at the same time, but they're both very different and different situations with each daughter. I can think of a few moments where it's like they get it, you know, you can see kind of the connection made or the light bulb goes off. And then I might talk about it the next day or a couple days later and say, you know, what happened there? Here's what I saw. John Francis [00:07:57]: And then let them recognize there was a lesson and they pick that up. One more opportunity to learn. We're all learning, and I'm still learning, that's for sure. But I think it was having the ability to just stay calm. That's something I learned too. For me as a dad, early on, patience was not a strength, it was a weakness. And someone pointed it out, a friend of mine and my wife, frankly. And I'm like, oh, man, you're right. John Francis [00:08:20]: I didn't see it. But once I had the feedback, I recognized, wow, I need to develop more patience. This is nuts. Why would I react the way I, you know, and so that became a practice and I got much better at it. And. And I think that made a huge impact in the environment and just the stress level, because I didn't want to be that. That angry or overreactive or snap temper kind of thing. That's not who I am. John Francis [00:08:42]: It's not who I want to be. And that's not the dad I want. Because I believe daughters, they grow up, and if you're dad, I mean, you become the example that they look for in their lives. And so I wanted to be the best version of myself to whatever degree I'm capable of. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:58]: I think that what you're saying is we have to be intentional about the things that we do, and we need to be able to Think about that as we're working with our daughters and, and some of it is intentional and it's conscious and some of it's intentional but unconscious as well. And I guess as you think about intentional things that you've done, what are some intentional ways you've worked? Strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during those challenging times as they were growing up. And you know, because it's not always easy. John Francis [00:09:26]: No, nothing's easy, man. I know that something someone suggested to me two things that come to my mind. One is create some one on one time with each child separately. And so I would take them maybe on an overnight, on a short trip somewhere, or even to our family shares a lake home, which is fabulous. We go and do things just together, just the two of us, either one or the other, but not all of us at the same time. And that one on one time was very valuable. And getting them away from home, away from the family, away from their friends and just where they kind of have to have a conversation because you're together in the car. We didn't go anywhere. John Francis [00:10:03]: I mean it wasn't like a real big deal. But creating those one on one opportunities at different moments. And I've seen guys that do like an annual father daughter trip, which I think could be a really cool idea. I never got that far, but I think that's kind of a neat routine to build if you can. But for me it was having those one on one intentional, short, I would say departure from home. We weren't like an ordinary environment where you have all the usual distractions and I work from home. So that was primarily for me because if I'm home, that's where I'm going to be. That's one thing. John Francis [00:10:35]: The other thing someone recommended or I read somewhere, you know, I try to read and learn everywhere I go. And one of the other recommendations was write your daughter a letter at certain milestones in life and handwrite it, you know, not typed, but you might organize your thoughts and talk about what do you feel, how do you see them, what are you proud of, what do you hope for them, what are your dreams or whatever. I know it's not a novel, it's a few pages, but I've written them. My girls are older now, so the first milestone I figured that out was when they graduated high school because that's clearly a big milestone. So I wrote each daughter a letter just from me to them saying, you know, as you're graduating high school, I want to just share with you my thoughts about you and all the things you want to share. And so I put some thought into what to say and all the way back from the moment you were born, and some of the highlights or low lights or some of the lessons learned, and it's not a recap of their whole life or anything, but it's more about how I feel about them. And the idea is that there's something you can give to them that they can hold on to. And everybody knows in the, you know, years from now, when you're long gone, they might have that letter to go back and reflect and say, well, you know, I remember my dad this way because he was able to share with me these thoughts or these perspectives. John Francis [00:11:46]: So I've done that, and I intend to keep doing that at those milestone moments. And I just think I wish my dad wrote letters to all of us. I'm one of five kids, so he wrote letters to us before he died, but sadly, he knew he was dying. I mean, he had cancer for a long time. It was slow. So as he was fighting and fighting and fighting. And then finally, at the end, about the last three or four months, he started writing. And my mom, they were together, and she's like, what are you writing? And he says, I'm writing letters. John Francis [00:12:14]: You'll read them later. So he wrote a letter to the whole family, and then he wrote a letter to each of us. And that's quite a gift, so I'm grateful for that. And then, like I said, reading, the suggestion was, hey, hey, dad. You know, your daughter, she's only this age for a little while, and in the long life that she's got, how do you want her to remember you? You can create some of these milestones that could be real meaningful. So, anyway, that's something I've learned and I've tried to do, and it's certainly simple and costs almost nothing, but it takes some time and effort, and that's probably the hardest part, but it's so worth it. And then they read it, and then we talk about it if they want, but they've got it. And so I feel like that's. John Francis [00:12:53]: I can't give them everything, but I can give them that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]: Now, none of us as dads are perfect. We're fallible. You know, we are humans, and we do make mistakes. And for you, as you're thinking about your daughters and helping to raise your daughters, what's a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it? About fostering a positive connection with your daughters? John Francis [00:13:16]: Which one? Yes. I gotta Think of one that's maybe relevant. I'm thinking about each girl. They're so different. So with my older daughter, probably a mistake that I made early on when she was probably early teens, preteen maybe, and things were going crazy. Her relationship with her mother, my lovely wife, they had some challenges, and they didn't see things the same way in a lot of ways. And my attitude was, I'm going to defend my wife first. So that's what I thought was the right thing to do. John Francis [00:13:47]: And so that's what I did. And it created a bit of a gap, I would say, with my daughter, because she recognized that, oh, okay, you're siding with mom every time. And so she responded her own way. And that, you know, I mean, that's the dynamic. Later, years later, our family. I insisted that we go together as a family to family counseling, family therapist. I said, we're happy, we're not miserable, but I know we can be more happy. And when I was a kid, my family went through some family therapy. John Francis [00:14:15]: One of my sisters, I have three sisters. One of my sisters went through chemical dependency, rehab treatment and pushed. Our whole family went through therapy because of that, and which was fantastic. It was sad for a lot of reasons, but it was really helpful for a lot of reasons because that therapy cleared up a lot of things that we were all unconscious to. So I had an appreciation for a good therapist. Years later, we went through some family therapy. Again, nothing really dramatic, but useful stuff. And some of this came out, and I started seeing how that really wasn't maybe the best option all the time. John Francis [00:14:46]: And so I learned a lesson from that. And we talked about it, and we talked through it and. And kind of resolved it. And it's like, well, okay, I can see why you did what you did, and I can see what you've learned. And it was me, her learning as much as I was learning, and same as my wife was learning. We're all in this room together, and so it's fascinating, I think, to just experience that. And we never had a bad relationship, but the relationship became much more clear and better after that because we all understood things just more clearly. And I think that's where a good therapist is really valuable. John Francis [00:15:21]: And I'm glad we did that. And I expect we'll do it again if we feel the need. Right? Because why wouldn't you, if you can live a happier, better, calm, more healthy environment and relationships that we all want that. So that's one thing I learned. I'm thinking about my other daughter with her, there are several. I can think of plenty of times where she was really mad at me, things I said or did that were not helpful. I think probably there I learned patience and understanding where her behavior was frustrating to me, and I might say something that was trying to provoke a response that really wasn't useful, wasn't healthy, and really just made her more mad. And then probably in that same therapy, kind of talk about those things and realize that, okay, that's not smart. John Francis [00:16:03]: That's not what I was trying to do, and that's not what I want to do going forward. So learning more patience and then being a little more tolerant, I guess, of letting her do what she needs to do, even if it's not what I think she should do or what I want her to do. But it's not risky or dangerous. So just support her and let her do her thing. So I think I've learned that. Again, my girls, they're not. Well, they're both adults, so they're not young ladies, but they got plenty of life ahead of them. And God willing, so do I. John Francis [00:16:31]: I'm sure we'll have more lessons along the way is what I'm trying to say. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:34]: It definitely happens throughout I their life and our life. We're going to have to kind of ebb and flow in that regard. Now, I mentioned that you are the founder of Father's Eve, and Father's Eve is coming up. And I guess, first and foremost, why don't you tell me a little bit about Father's Eve and why you chose to start this event for dads in conjunction with Father's Day. John Francis [00:16:57]: Well, thank you. Father's Eve, of course, is the day really, the night before Father's Day, we've got Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. And so I invented Father's Eve Eve because I love Father's Day. I love being a dad. It's the most important thing I'll ever do is raise some children. And so Father's Day is for the dads and families to celebrate, but Father's Eve is just for the dads. So we call it like a national Dad's Night Out. And this year it'll be June 20, 2026. John Francis [00:17:25]: Of course, it's Saturday because Father's Day Sunday. And honestly, it started as an accident of the calendar. When the Great Recession came through in 2009 and 10, we had an opportunity to move to a different house. So we did. And the house was nice, but the garage was terrible. So I had a new garage built at that House. And I wanted to show off my garage, basically to invite my buddies over and say, check out this garage, because it was pretty nice. And it turned out the only night available was that Saturday. John Francis [00:17:56]: And I didn't have really a lot of free time. It must have been a busy summer. And so I said, well, we'll just have a little get together in the garage and I'm going to call it Father's Eve. Because that's just kind of funny, right? It was sort of a joke. Well, a bunch of guys showed up and it turned out we had a great time, right? No children, no women, really nothing to it. Music was just a little too loud. It was perfect. I mean, it was just guys hanging out in a garage, kind of an inauguration or a christening of a new garage. John Francis [00:18:24]: And we had so much fun. We said, well, we got to do this again. And so we did it again and it had to be Father's Eve now. We said, well, that's. This worked out great, so let's do it again. So we did it the second year, but doubled, right? More guys showed up and more friends of mine. And just different people were coming together back in the same garage. And this time we added food and some games and we were a little more prepared and organized. John Francis [00:18:46]: Well, the third year we did Father's Eve, there were guys coming that I didn't know, which I thought was great. This means my buddies are bringing their buddies, more friends are bringing more friends because they're having so much fun. And it was still just all guys, very low key, no program, no speech, no nothing. Just show up and hang out and let's get together. And celebrating fatherhood is kind of the tagline. So someone challenged me to say, what are you going to do with this Father's Eve? Why don't you do some good? So the third year, I guess the fourth year, we outgrew the garage. We moved it to a bar and we made it a fundraiser for two charities. We split the money as a fundraiser and we raised $10,000 and got some publicity, got some media, had some friends, some. John Francis [00:19:26]: Some of my good, smart friends who were able to help me with the food and events. And we ran an auction. We got some media attention. We put in a cornhole tournament to have some fun with it. And it turned into something a little more I ever expected. And so the next year, that was 2015, was sort of the first official organized. We had a logo, we sold T shirts. We were having some fun with it. John Francis [00:19:49]: The next year, I went to the DAD 2.0 conference, which was sort of a media influencer thing, which I had no clue what I was doing, but I thought, well, see what we can do. And I met the guys from City Dad's group and I met the guys from the national At Home Dad Network network. And I'm like, where have you guys been my whole life I've been out here doing my thing all alone, on my own, figuring it out. And now I realize there's groups all around the country. Well, I had no idea. So started the City Dads chapter here in Minnesota, the Twin Cities Dads group, as an affiliate or whatever their thing was. And great guys, great, lot of fun. And so it kind of took off from there. John Francis [00:20:26]: We license it, I trademarked it and we license it for free. So Father's Eve is fun, it's free and it's, we say it's everywhere. So we kept doing it. Cities and volunteers pop up all over the country and host Father's Eve events at their, in their backyard and their, their local bar or restaurant or a church or school or a club or. We've done it all over the place and had quite a bit of fun with it. Some guys do fundraisers, guys have done golf tournaments. One guy did a poker tournament that seemed like a lot of fun. Some do fundraisers for local charities. John Francis [00:20:57]: We're not a charity, so we don't want the money. We want. If you're going to do it, raise the money and give it to someone else, someone who can do some good. Local nonprofit profit is usually what we recommend. Or for the At Home Dad Network is a good group. We collaborated with, really anybody, anyone who we thought was in alignment of let's help dads be better dads. I mean that's really the common denominator. Trying to help each other figure this out. John Francis [00:21:20]: So Father's Eve now, this year we'll probably have it in 30 or 40 cities around the country. We do a virtual toast. We learned something from COVID when, when that came around and, and it pushed us online. So we do an online zoom. And the fun part, Chris, you know this Father's Eve, we do a countdown toast at 8 o' clock. So people know on New Year's Eve you gotta wait till midnight to do the countdown. 10, 9, 8. The whole thing at midnight on Father's Eve, we back that up to 8 o'. John Francis [00:21:49]: Clock. Because I want to go home by 9:30. Man, I don't want to see midnight. It's Father's Day the next day. I want to be well rested. So we do a 8 o' clock countdown toast in East Coast, Central time, Mountain time and Pacific time, the four continental US Time zones. We go online and we get guys zooming in from all over the country, up and down the different time zones. It's really kind of fun. John Francis [00:22:12]: And they, they click, they connect. So it's like, you might be like, where I am in Minnesota, we're Central time. So we'll see guys from Minnesota, Chicago, Dallas, Kansas City, you know, up and down our time zone. But we of course start early for the east coast guys. We want to see them and all way from New York to Carolinas and Florida and whatever. Anyway, we do it four times online, so guys can join us anywhere and zoom in. And there's no fee, there's no credit card number, there's nothing. You just show up and if you want to say something, say something. John Francis [00:22:42]: If you don't, you don't. Nobody really minds it. The expectations are pretty low. It's. It's just show up and maybe you'll learn something, maybe you share something. You have some games and activities and anyway, it's loosely organized. I'll say a bunch of volunteers having a good time. My strategy, there's not a lot to it, but the goal is to have dads connect. John Francis [00:23:01]: And we say we connect, share and celebrate fatherhood. And I tell you what I've learned over the years is if I can help somebody, just be a little more intentional or a little more conscious of how important fatherhood is and being that dad, you know, being the father is biological. Being the dad is much more. So we focus on trying to do whatever we can to help each other be a better husband, be a better father, be a better partner. And we welcome every dad, all the dads, really anyone. We're very inclusive and there's really no agenda. We're not selling anything, we're not promoting anything. We're not saving anyone. John Francis [00:23:36]: We're not solving any problems. We're just there to get together and try to help each other and support each other. And what I'm learning now is really what I would say, alleviating isolation. I think a lot of guys, especially older guys, forget how to make friends and they don't get out in circulation. I'm a lucky guy. I've got friends. We go snowmobiling and fishing and work. And I get around the country and do my thing, but a lot of guys don't. John Francis [00:24:01]: And so this is a real easy open door. Come on out and celebrate Father's Eve. Whether it's in real life at a local event nearby, or whether you join us online and maybe you make connections somewhere or learn something about one of these groups or organizations that I didn't know about, but I sure wish I did when my kids were little. And there's always something new and interesting. And so it's just kind of that sort of a connection point, I guess, is really the goal. I'm trying to be that the, the common denominator for all the dads. You know, we can all celebrate Father's Eve and really have no agenda. But anyway, thanks for letting me bring it up. John Francis [00:24:36]: Obviously I can talk about this for hours, but we're glad to do it and it's been a lot of fun and we're still learning, we're still growing, but it is, it's been meaningful and I think it's a lot more room to improve always. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:47]: Now, if people are interested, they're hearing this, they're saying to themselves, hey, I'd like to have a get together in my area for, for dads like this. John Francis [00:24:56]: This. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:56]: Talk to me about what they would need to do to be able to do that, to get signed up and to be able to be a part of the fun. John Francis [00:25:02]: Well, Father's Eve is the website. There's no apostrophe, right? Because it's not possessive, it's. It's plural, right? It's for everybody. So some grammar teacher told me that. Where's the apostrophe? I'm like, well, I didn't trademark it with an apostrophe. So it's Father's Eve.com and we're on all the whatever socials. I don't know how to do tick tock, so I don't think we're there. But anyway, not hard to find. John Francis [00:25:24]: And there's five rules for Father's Eve. This is super easy. Number one, keep it clean. This is not a bachelor party. This is not a frat party. This is not let's go crazy, right? It's have a good time. I would say it's PG13, whatever, but keep it clean. That's rule number one. John Francis [00:25:39]: Number two, it's for the dads, and that means all the dad. It's not really a family event, although you can do it that way if you want. We're not rigid, really, but it's inclusive. So dads, divorced dads, single dads, granddads, gay dads, kids, trans dads. We'll welcome anybody, whoever. If you want to celebrate fathers, we want you to be with us. So number two is all the dads. Number three is you got to have something to do, some kind of an activity or engagement. John Francis [00:26:06]: A lot of guys just have a barbecue and sit around a table and just talk. That's fine. We do a bags tournament with the cornhole because I can hold a beer in one hand and throw the bags with the other hand. So that's pretty fun. Something to do. And so you gotta Anything, anything, Something interesting to do. That's number three. Number four is work together. John Francis [00:26:25]: We do a Facebook page for the hosts. We call them event hosts. There is a private page. I want to talk to you and share with you what I've learned and what. We have some tools and some simple stuff for guys who want to organize a little more and promote themselves a little bit, but work together. We want to know what you're doing, and we want to help you do it better and have better results. And then rule number five is don't screw it up. Don't be that guy that does something stupid and wrecks it for all of us. John Francis [00:26:50]: So none of this involves any. Any fee. It's really all just common sense. And we're trying to build a movement, we're trying to build a group. We've got social media, we've got an email, we send a newsletter. It's not complicated. The goal is to get this thing big enough that maybe someday we'll get a sponsor. Someone wants to be the official fill in the blank of Father's Eve. John Francis [00:27:11]: I could think of a lot of things. I'd like to be affiliated with a lot of organizations. And if we get big enough where it's attractive and we have enough. Enough activity or engagement, then there's some economic value that I think if we made any real money, we. All we would do is promote ourselves even more and have bigger events and even more fun and try to reach more people, which is really the goal. If we can reach more of the dads out there, and there's new dads, there's old dads, there's about to be dads, There's. We can learn from each other and share ideas. And that's really the goal. John Francis [00:27:43]: So Father's Eve is fun. It's free. It's everywhere. There. Hit the website, click the link. There's an agreement there. There's a trademark, a license agreement, but it's free. There's no fees, no nothing there. John Francis [00:27:54]: We. I guess we do sell a T shirt. If you want a T shirt or coffee mug, you can buy that. But we're not big on the merch, but someone said, why wouldn't you sell a coffee cup or whatever? So. But it's pretty simple, Chris. Part of the fun is I get to talk to these guys. I want to know who you are and what you're up to and what your plans are, and then I want to help you and see if I can make your event even more fun and more successful so I get to know these people. And over the years, I've made some great guys that are doing Father's Eve, and some guys have been doing it year after year after year. John Francis [00:28:22]: I think Chicago, I think they're on, like, I want to say, 10 plus years. I think they've been doing it. Some of the other cities around the country, it's same guys, same groups, and they have quite large events. It's fascinating to see what they're doing. And that's really what it's all about, is just keep it simple and have some fun. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]: Well, we always finish our interviews what I like to call our dad connections. Six. Six more questions. The devil. A little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? John Francis [00:28:47]: I'll try. I'll do my best. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? John Francis [00:28:53]: Loving. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:53]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? John Francis [00:28:57]: Parent the child you have, not the child you wish you had. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:02]: What's one activity that you and each of your daughters love doing together? John Francis [00:29:06]: We love being on the water, on the lake, at the cabin. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:09]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? John Francis [00:29:15]: Be very careful of who you choose as a life partner because it's 80% of your happiness or misery in life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:24]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? John Francis [00:29:28]: Life is so much more interesting as a parent. It's a whole new dimension of possibilities and growth and meaningful life. I love it. I can't imagine not being a dad. Dad. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:40]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? John Francis [00:29:48]: Learn how to be patient and really learn how to listen. Those things are easy to say, but they're really hard to do consistently. But I've tried and I've gotten better, and there's always room for more. But patience and what do they say? Active listening, really being present. There's no other way. I think that's the starter for any kind of meaningful relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]: Well, John, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being on the show today. Thank you for sharing about your own journey with your daughters as well as all the amazing things that you're doing with Father's Eve. I wish you all the best as you get ready for the next Father's Eve. And as always, I really appreciate your time and everything that you've shared today. I wish you the best. John Francis [00:30:30]: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to be build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:31:04]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

If you're a dad seeking to build a deeper relationship with your daughter and empower her to grow into a confident, independent woman, the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast is the resource you've been looking for. In the latest episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rob Donovan, a devoted father of two, to explore the ups and downs of modern fatherhood, sharing both practical tips and heartfelt stories that will resonate with any parent. From the start, Dr. Christopher Lewis sets the tone: fatherhood isn't about perfection—it's about presence. This central message weaves through the episode as Rob Donovan recounts his own parenting journey, including the surprises he encountered as his daughters' personalities took shape. He shares how one daughter, contrary to his expectations, turned out to be more artistically inclined, while the other took after him in her love of sports. Rob Donovan emphasizes the significance of meeting each child where they are—celebrating their uniqueness and supporting their preferred interests, whether that means roller hockey in the driveway or karaoke in the living room. A recurring theme in the conversation is the importance of letting children develop their independence, even as we instinctively want to protect them. Rob Donovan candidly discusses the balancing act of giving his daughters space to solve their own problems—from playground squabbles to learning how to handle disappointment and frustration—while always remaining a supportive presence in their lives. The episode also dives into how dads can intentionally foster strong bonds during challenging moments. Rob Donovan opens up about overcoming his own discomfort around childhood injuries, a legacy of his military experiences, and learning to comfort his daughters with patience and understanding. He shares the family routines that keep them connected, like special breakfast traditions and shared musical moments, underscoring that it's often the simplest rituals that leave the deepest impact. One of the most inspiring messages from the episode comes when Rob Donovan advises fellow dads to "just go for it" and always get involved—no matter how different your children's passions may be from your own. As he says, "Dive right in… you never know, you might enjoy it with them." The "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast reminds us that fatherhood is a journey of growth—for both father and child. Each episode offers encouragement, wisdom, and a sense of camaraderie for dads everywhere. Listen in, get inspired, and start building the lasting connections that shape your daughter's future—and your own. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that want to have with our daughters one day at a time. And it is a journey that you're on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:05]: Every one of us is on a different journey as we are working to be able to be the fathers that we want to be, but also to make those meaningful connections with our daughters as they are getting older. And that's why this podcast exists every week. I love being able to have the opportunity to introduce you to new dads that you might. That you've never met before, that. That are going through this process themselves. Maybe they're succeeding, maybe they're failing. Maybe they're somewhere in between. No matter where they are and where you are, you showing up gives you the opportunity to learn, to grow, and to be able to continue to build those tools for your own toolbox that'll help you to be the best dad that you want to be. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: So today, I am really excited we have another great guest on the show. Rob Donovan is with us. And Rob's a father of two daughters, and they are age 5 and 4. I remember those days. It was a while back, but I do remember those days, and it was a fun time. And I am really excited to have him here today and for him to tell some of his story with you. Rob, thanks so much for joining us today. Rob Donovan [00:02:17]: Great to be here, Dr. Lewis. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:18]: Well, it's my pleasure having you here today. And I guess, first and foremost, one of the things that I love being able to start with and talk about is each one of us are going through this journey as we're working to be that dad that we want to be. And part of that is to create those meaningful moments, moments that each of us wants to have with our daughters. What's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with each of your daughters and what made each of them so special. Rob Donovan [00:02:44]: I'm gonna have to say since they're 5 and 4, their identities now are starting to come to fruition. I thought at first my firstborn daughter was gonna be all sports. She's more arts, she's more music and film. My second born is all sports. So it kind of flip flopped on that end. But what I love is that I can connect with them on two different levels. So obviously for my second born daughter, she loves to go outside. Roller hockey, soccer, anything outside, biking. Rob Donovan [00:03:07]: And then my firstborn, you know, we love to listen to music. Obviously the kids show hunt tricks is a big one for her. And then going to movies, she loves movies. So I believe we just saw the new Mario movie and we're gonna go back again probably next week. So she just love recreate movie scenes and sometimes I'm the bad guy, sometimes I'm the animal. I don't know. But it's fun to create those moments with my daughters on a separate level. Sometimes they play with each other, but I can obviously tell now that they're kind of going off in their own separate ways a little bit here. Rob Donovan [00:03:34]: And it's fun to connect on each level of them on those. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:36]: Now what the things I didn't mention was that you also work with the hockey team at the University of Michigan Flint. And so sports is really important to you. So with your youngest having that connection and having that interest in sports, I'm sure that there's sometimes an ability to be able to make that connection and be able to understand her a little bit more because of that. So talk to me about that connection to sports with your youngest daughter. What have you done to hone that and what have you done to work to hone your other abilities with your oldest daughter who has other interests than your own? Rob Donovan [00:04:15]: So I think for my youngest daughter starting out is that she became a lot like me. More than I could have ever imagined. It's kind of like staring in the mirror. And now I know what my parents kind of saw when I was a kid. She's very competitive. We bond over the fact that I obviously love Michigan, I love hockey, I love all sports. But I think whenever she sees the, the block em or anything, she yells go blue. She loves watching hockey, especially Michigan hockey. Rob Donovan [00:04:34]: And I think this year the football will be fun for her because I think she's gonna understand that a little bit more. But she kind of laug on anything. I kind of do So I mean, if I'm out playing hockey by myself rollerblading, she wants to do that. I think at this point right now we're just kind of working on it's okay to have fun, it's okay just to shoot. And if you miss the net or if you do something, it's not the end of the world. She's very competitive, so if she doesn't hit the net on a soccer goal or hockey goal, she gets a little upset. So we're kind of going through the motions of it's okay just to play and have fun. For my firstborn daughter, she does like to jump in a few times with the athletics, but she goes off on her own quests after a while and that's totally fine. Rob Donovan [00:05:09]: I kind of noticed that. And I'll give Tilly. Tilly's my second born and Tegan is my firstborn. And I will give Tegan, you know, the same amount of just kind of play time. So after I'm done playing hockey and kind of getting Tilly on a roll, I'll go over to Teegan and we'll kind of have our little side quests. Whether we're playing Mario or some other make believe movie with sticks or going on an adventure with her outside is pretty much what she likes to do. So I just kind of got to switch switches there and kind of go from a coach to almost like a drama teacher in a way. So it's kind of fun. Rob Donovan [00:05:38]: I never had that as a kid as being so playful. Like my firstborn, my parents were very athletic mindset and so it's kind of fun going back and having that experience with my firstborn. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]: Now. Earlier you talked about the fact that your daughters are starting to show some of that independence and wanting that independence for themselves. And part of the role of a father is to find that balance. Some of that balance comes down to how we guide our daughters while still giving them the independence that they need to grow into their own person. Talk to me about, how are you doing that? Rob Donovan [00:06:11]: For me, it's just going to be kind of just releasing the grip a bit, lessening, lessening the rope on them. I'm very protective as a father, so if we're biking, I like to keep them close even though our neighborhood's really safe. So I kind of now I'm kind of, you know, watching them from a distance and they know better with cars and such like that. Kind of letting them figure out when they have arguments instead of stepping in right away and like putting the kibosh on it. As soon as they start arguing now, I kind of let them try to figure it out a bit. Normally they do, but sometimes, you know, I still got to step in and referee a bit. But yeah, it's just kind of stepping back a bit and kind of letting them learn how to live a bit. And it's. Rob Donovan [00:06:43]: It's definitely a little bit difficult for me just because I'm so protective of them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:46]: And, you know, it's not always easy to be able to find ways to be able to work on those bonds, especially when times are challenging, because being a father is not always roses. There's going to be challenging times, and you have to figure out where you stand as a parent, as a father in those times. What would you say are some intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bonds with your daughters, especially during those challenging times? Rob Donovan [00:07:12]: For me, one of my biggest difficulties as a dad is going to have to be maybe injuries. And that just goes back to. For me, my, my girls, they play extremely hard, and so there's going to be injuries. I mean, they're filled with bruises and cuts and stuff like that. But, you know, big injuries. Such as, like, I know one time one of them went over the handlebars. Handlebars once scraped up her face, things like that. And kind of takes me back is I was in the military about eight years ago. Rob Donovan [00:07:35]: I came across during my time of service, some things with kids that made difficult. I always thought when having children, when they get to that age, around five to eight, I was going to have a little difficulties because I had past experiences with kids that are being injured. So for me, I know as they were growing up, whenever they got hurt or fell or anything like that, or started crying really hard, for me it was very difficult. It was very, I'd say in the new words, triggering, I guess, where I'd kind of a normal dad kneel down, you know, kiss the boo boo, and you know, stuff like that. For me, it was very difficult. It was almost like I had to step away. But now I've learned in the past few years, I've learned to slow things down and explain to them, okay, it's just a little cut or just a little bruise. We can get up things like that. Rob Donovan [00:08:10]: And I think if I would have said that three years ago, for me, that would have been very difficult. So we're both growing together, my daughters and I, so I know there's more bumps and bruises to go on as they grow up, especially in sports. So I think for me, it's just going to be something I'm going to continue to grow and continue to get better at. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]: And as you said, we're not perfect individuals. There are mistakes that we make, flaws that we have. What would you say is a mistake that you've made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering more positive communications with your daughters? Rob Donovan [00:08:40]: I think my biggest mistake is going to have to be I'm just a very competitive, aggressive kind of person. Just comes with. I played hockey my whole life. I did the military. I'm. I'm a deputy now, sheriff deputy. And so I kind of live a life where I'm very go getter is I'm very aggressive in life. And so when the girls play and stuff, I. Rob Donovan [00:08:57]: I kind of let it go like I said. But then on the flip side, I got to teach them, you know, to be kind, courteous, nice with strangers and other kids when they play. They can't be as rough as they are with their sisters. So I think that's just one thing I kind of needed to tone down start, which I didn't do. And now I'm kind of backtracking a bit, trying to teach them, you know, how to play a little nicer and how to include everybody and not immediately when you get mad at someone, you're not gonna, you know, just throw them down on the ground, something like that. So something I'm backtracking now on being a little nicer. I just being an older person, an adult, you've kind of already grown up not knowing that's, you know, not, not the right thing to do. But when you're a child, you can need your parents to kind of help you along those ropes. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:33]: And I can tell that you are in there, you're engaged. And for all of us that are engaged dads, there are things that we have to do to be validate our kids. So I guess what do you do to intentionally allow for your daughters to feel both valued and heard? Rob Donovan [00:09:51]: For me, I just give them the time. I know I work overnight, so I work from 7pm to 7am so I could easily go to bed and wake up at 4 and go right to work, pretty much get have a meal and go to work. But I come home every day and I feed my dogs first of all because they're the first ones up and whining. I have two little mini dachshunds, so little wiener dogs so they need to go out and get fed. But as soon as I do that, the girls come running downstairs because they Know that as soon as I get home, I make a gourmet kind of, you know, breakfast for them. They have eggs, Belgian waffles, sausage, orange juice right before school. So it's kind of like a little system we have where almost now, if I don't come home, if I get delayed by something that morning, I feel bad because I know that that's something they look forward to, is me coming home and making them nice meals. And then on the flip side, I try to go to bed as soon as they go to school, I go to bed right away. Rob Donovan [00:10:37]: And then I get up around, you know, 1:32. So now I have the whole back end of the afternoon when they get back from school and they have lunch, Dad's waking up and now they know dad's going to come out and play with, be involved. And so I may be tired, I may be 3 day work week of 12 hour shifts or something like that. But I always try to make time for them and try to, you know, play with them and give them a good meal. And I think they really appreciate that. It's kind of something they look forward to every week now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]: And you talked about some of the interests that your daughters have, and I don't know if you, if you have an answer for this or not, but as your daughters have been getting older and starting to show you more of their, their passions, their dreams, their things, the things that they are most interested in and most wanting to do. How do you support your daughters in pursuing those passions and dreams? Rob Donovan [00:11:23]: I believe that when you're young, you're figuring out what you like. A lot of times that's like, if you talk to people, you know, in their older years, they grow up, be like, oh, I used to love playing saxophone as a kid, or I used to, you know, I love singing as a child, but I kind of lost doing that because I had other things or other things are more important or, you know, I got older and I realized it was never going to happen, things like that. But like I said, my first daughter loves music. She loves singing, she loves anything to do with music, film, things like that. And so I encourage you. I got her a little, little microphone to sing into and a little karaoke set on. Play her favorite songs and just kind of encourage her. No matter, you know, no matter what she likes, sports, music, dance, anything. Rob Donovan [00:12:00]: I'm going to be there supporting her all the way because I know that's going to be a passion of hers. I can just tell in their eyes that she loves it on the Flip side of my youngest daughter, I mean, she's just like me and she looks just like me. So sports, she gravitated right towards sports. I mean, I have a little knee hockey set I've had since sixth grade or so like for 30 years. And I brought it out and she, she loved it immediately. She loves kicking the soccer ball. Any do with movement. And for her, I always told my wife I had a son it'd be a little more difficult because like I said before, I, I push really hard. Rob Donovan [00:12:27]: So having a daughter was kind of a godsend for me because it allows me to step back and kind of be a little softer as a parent, I believe. So with her being sports wise, I can work on, you know, being more passionate instead of, you know, let's get out there and run drills. When they get it like 6 or when I get 8 years old to like 15, I'm gonna say, hey, let's go play out in the field together. Instead of, let's hit the, let's hit the sprints and stuff like that. If I had a boy. So I think just being with both of them and being, and what they like to do and having as their dad and a friend enjoying what they do, instead of just saying, hey, go out and do this and I'm going to sit back and watch or I'm going to go inside and do my own thing. I'm going to actively, as I get older, I'm going to still be along as long as they let me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:06]: And what's one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you? Rob Donovan [00:13:10]: That's going to be through honestly just being active in what they're doing. So I said the music wise, you just got to be there for them. You got to be right next to them, you got to be engaged with them. And so if they have any questions or they want you to be along, sing along with them or show them the ropes. They're not gonna be afraid to ask you because you're always there helping out for their age. If they get frustrated, I know about a year ago, if I said this a year ago, they'd sit there and cry, maybe they'd get frustrated, they throw down their toy, they throw down whatever they're doing and kind of run into the house. But now there's like, dad, can you help me? Dad, can you come play with me? Dad this and dad that. And I love that. Rob Donovan [00:13:43]: I love being included with it. And now I feel like they trust me enough to, if they need help, they can just Ask instead of just running away. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:49]: It's so important to be able to stay open, allowing for our daughters to really dictate where the conversation's going. And that's not always something that is at the forefront of our brain in the sense of what we would do right away. So I appreciate that you shared that. Now all of us have those routines, and you talked about the breakfast routine and traditions that are meaningful to our families. You mentioned the breakfast one, but I'm going to ask and see if there's any other ones. What's another tradition or routine that you've created together with your daughters that really strengthens your bonds? Rob Donovan [00:14:24]: I think one of them would be obviously the breakfast one. But for me, I love. For my second daughter and sometimes my first, I love watching anything Michigan so that they. Hockey, football, anything like that. As soon as I turn it on the past two years, they know. So they. They hear the fight song, Hail to the Victors and stuff, and they go. They come in, they yell, go blue. Rob Donovan [00:14:41]: And they sit down for a bit. At least my second daughter still sit for almost the whole game and watch and they cheer whenever anyone scores a touchdown. For my firstborn daughter, I used to play guitar. So when she gets feels a little artsy or she wants her favorite song, she'll come up to me and she'll ask me, can you play this or can you? I've done it a couple times with Moana and stuff like that, where I found out the chords and I'd play. But now it's like whenever she finds a new song, she's like, dad, can you play this? Can you figure out how to play this? So it's kind of a tradition with her now is now that whenever she finds a new song or something, we go try to play it. And we have a drum set too, so she loves playing that. It's like one of those electric ones. So we'll put a return on her favorite song and she'll so drum to it, in a way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:15]: Is your backup singer. She can become your backup singer and backup drummer. Rob Donovan [00:15:19]: Exactly. Like I said, I go from coach to music teacher each day. Flip flop. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:23]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection 6, which asks you six more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Rob Donovan [00:15:30]: Sure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:30]: Go for it. What's one word that describes the relationship that you have with your daughters? Rob Donovan [00:15:37]: I'd say devoted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Rob Donovan [00:15:43]: Be goofy. As much for my dad, always make your kids laugh. You have to be tough with them. But at the same time, you know, they're. They're looking for. They're looking for a laugh, they're looking for a good time. They're. Kids can't always just be so strict. Rob Donovan [00:15:52]: Even though you want them to listen to you got to spend the time to make them laugh. So got to be goofy. But you gotta teach them to laugh at yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:59]: Now, you've already answered this question in a few different ways, but if there's a different one, you can, you can answer this. What's one activity that you and. And each of your daughters love doing together? Rob Donovan [00:16:10]: My second daughter loves to eat. So I cook a ton of things. I like to cook and she eats anything. And it's amazing. Like, I would never have eaten that as a kid. And she just, she just pounds it down like it just extravagant food. So she has, she's not picky. And so whenever I'm cooking food or whatever, she always wants to try a bite. Rob Donovan [00:16:27]: So that's awesome. With her firstborn daughter, yes, I've already tapped on the artsy part and stuff like that, but trying to think of one other thing that she. The music, art, stuff like that. Drawing. I'd say she loves to draw, so I'll join her in drawing. And I'm not the greatest artist, so she laughs at if I draw. Tell them to draw the dogs or something. She wants me to draw the dog as well. Rob Donovan [00:16:47]: Or chalk outside and I'll make a picture and she'll be laughing. That's not a dog or something like that. So I think that's two things that we'd like to do together. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:54]: If you can give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Rob Donovan [00:16:59]: For me, I would say just go for it. Honestly, just that. Just go for it. Just because you never know. You never know what's going to happen. If you have a passion and you truly believe it, just go for it. For me, I've done a lot in my life, a million different careers, and so I think I set a good example for my daughters, especially when they get older and they ask, well, what have you done in your life? I can say, you know, I just went for it. And I hope you do too, because there's so many experiences you can go on with your life. Rob Donovan [00:17:23]: After high school, I played junior hockey, pro hockey in Canada for a while. I played college hockey and then took a break from hockey. Actually, where I got music from is my wife now was my girlfriend in College, and we went to Nashville and we did music for two years out there. And once I was done with that, and I was good with that, I went to the military. Once I was on the military, I did police work. And now I'm on to hockey again. I'm onto my passion again. So just a million different avenues. Rob Donovan [00:17:46]: And I hope they find excitement in life like I did and they don't get stuck on one thing and have to feel like they only have one thing in life that they could do. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:54]: And what's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Rob Donovan [00:17:59]: For me, especially with two girls, I've learned a lot. Like I said before, I was really nervous being a dad just because I felt like. Like if I had boys or I didn't even know if I had girls, if I had girls, I'd be expecting too much. You always come into being a dad, think, or at least for me, I can't wait to see what they're gonna do. I can't wait to see what their passions are. And, you know, I'm gonna push them to be good at something. You kind of want to, like, not live your life through them, but at least try to give them as much passion, as much as much direction as you possibly can. But I've learned now that you just kind of gotta let them go and have fun for right now, and all the chips will fall where they may. Rob Donovan [00:18:33]: This is time where you just enjoy your life, enjoy the times that you have with your daughters and your. And things will fall where they are. They always do. Just be there to support them and be a good, devoted father. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:43]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Rob Donovan [00:18:50]: I would say no matter what their passion is to try to get involved, you don't have to extremely love what they're doing. Just get involved. And you never know, you might enjoy it as well. They're looking for someone to enjoy their passion with. And being a dad and being there with them, being supportive. That's all my girls ever ask for, is just me being around and being present. So I think just dive right in. No matter what it is, you never know, you might enjoy it with them. Rob Donovan [00:19:14]: Might be a lasting hobby for you guys. So to try it out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:17]: Great advice, and I really appreciate you sharing that and sharing the journey that you've been on with your own daughters. And it's still a journey. You're going to continue to go through many of the different phases of life. As they continue to get older. But I want to say thank you. Thank you for your time, and I truly wish you all the best. Rob Donovan [00:19:34]: Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Performer [00:20:06]: We're all in the same boat Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]: and Musical Performer [00:20:13]: it's full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them? Be the best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can be.

What does it really mean to be a great dad to a daughter? The latest episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection digs deep into this all-important question. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis, joined by guest Mitesh Khatri—Melbourne father, writer, and corporate strategist—explores the daily challenges, triumphs, and small yet powerful moments that shape our relationships with our daughters. A central theme of the conversation is the importance of being truly present. As Mitesh Khatri candidly shares, simply being in the room is not enough; it's about showing up emotionally and giving your attention, especially during routines like bedtime or unstructured play. One meaningful moment he describes is when his young daughter told him to "stop rushing me." This wake-up call led him to rethink how often stress and distraction rob us of precious connection—and how even "routine" moments can become the foundation of trust and closeness. The episode also explores the challenge of balancing professional ambitions with family life. Mitesh Khatri discusses how corporate careers often offer clear metrics of success—promotions, projects, and accolades—whereas fatherhood can feel less measurable. The takeaway? We must create our own scorecards within our families: counting moments of connection, presence, and patience as real victories. Perhaps most powerfully, the episode underscores the need for vulnerability. Mitesh Khatri opens up about his struggles with stress, his journey to calm his nervous system, and his realization that anger often masks deeper feelings like disappointment or sadness. He introduces practical strategies—like pausing before reacting and honest journaling—to help break generational cycles and model healthier emotional regulation for our daughters. For dads who worry about not getting it right, Mitesh Khatri says it's not about perfection, but about trying. He advocates for intentionality, ongoing learning, and talking openly with other dads. As host Dr. Christopher Lewis reminds listeners, "being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present." If you're searching for practical insight and heartfelt stories on building meaningful father-daughter relationships, this is one episode you shouldn't miss. Tune in to The Dad and Daughter Connection for real conversations that will leave you inspired to show up, connect, and be the dad she needs. Listen now and start building your own toolkit for intentional, loving fatherhood. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there, it's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to delve a little bit deeper and into the relationships that you want to build with your kids. And I love that you're here. Every week you're here, you've rolled up your sleeves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]: You are doing what you can to be able to show up for your daughters in so many different ways. And that's why this show exists. This show exists to help you to be that dad that you want to be. And I try to bring you different people, different people with different experiences every week to allow for you to be able to learn something new, to gain some tools for your toolbox that can help you to be able to be that dad. Today we've got another great guest. Mitesh Khatri is with us today. And Mitesh is a father from Melbourne, Australia. He's got two kids himself and we're going to focus on his daughter, but he also has a son and we're going to learn a little bit more about him and I'm really excited to have him here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: Mitesh, thanks so much for being here today. Mitesh Khatri [00:01:53]: Thank you so much, Christopher. And really appreciate all the work you do for fatherhood and dads and daughter in this connection. This podcast is fantastic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:01]: Well, I really appreciate that you're here today and we're going to talk about a new book that you have out to help fathers in many different ways as well. But. But we always start our interviews talking a little bit about you as a dad and especially as a dad to a daughter. And I know you've got a six year old daughter and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper. And I guess as you're thinking about your relationship with your daughter, what's one of the most meaningful mom that you've been able to share with your daughter, what made it so special? Mitesh Khatri [00:02:28]: Yeah, I think one of my most meaningful moments has definitely been the bedtime routine. I think it's been really. Because it's come from a moment where it wasn't the best moment for me. So, you know, there was a time when I was completely stressed out. Two young kids, and my daughter was four. My son was five and a half. And I remember my son is quite direct. But my daughter, she is more subtle in her ways of expressing her emotions. Mitesh Khatri [00:02:54]: And she said to me one night, and as I was putting her to bed, four years old, looked up to me and said, you know, stop rushing me. Those three words, I just froze. And she wasn't being difficult. I was trying to get through the routine. Please put on your pajamas, brush your teeth, go to the bathroom, read a book or two, or cut it short. I was stressed, I was depleted, and I didn't want to be there in the room mentally, even though, you know, my beautiful daughter was just asking me to be there and to actually be present with her. And we talk about present all the time. I hear it on your podcast. Mitesh Khatri [00:03:23]: It's all be present. It's so difficult to do. You can't think yourself to be present in the moment. You physically can sometimes not be able to be present, and your mind is rushing and your body is not allowing you to do that. So it was quite a low moment. But today, when I look at it, it's one of the most beautiful times I have, is to put her to sleep every day, read her books, that routine, the cuddle she gives. And I look at her now, she's six years old, just turned in April. We take time with that routine, and I really cherish that time. Mitesh Khatri [00:03:51]: Is she's so sweet and she has the cutest smile and the cuddles and kisses you get at that time, you think, well, you know, I'm never going to get this back. And she's only going to be this age, like this, this moment. So we have to make the most of it, because they do fade. I hear it from people with older children. You have clearly girls that have grown up. You have to appreciate that. And so I think my best moments, they're around the bedtime routine because you get to talk about the day. You get to talk about what they really enjoyed, what they liked in the day, what they didn't and might do differently. Mitesh Khatri [00:04:21]: And it's really sort of deep, meaningful connections which you might not get it. Sort of school pickup. How was your day? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:26]: So talk to me a little bit about that transition that you had to go through because just hearing those three words, you can't switch on a dime. You definitely have to go through a process for yourself to, I'm going to say, reinvent yourself in many different ways to be able to change that paradigm for yourself. So talk to me a little bit about that and what you had to do to be able to make that shift. I'm guessing failing a few times along the way and then getting to the point where you are now. Mitesh Khatri [00:04:55]: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, what I found was I thought I could think myself to be present and calm. And actually I found at that point my, my body was tense. It was stressed out from work, stressed out from home work, life management, all things that new dads or sort of dads at least, I mean all dads, but especially with the young children, you have a lot of competing priorities. And I didn't think to look there, but actually looked to my body and I was tense in the shoulders, my back was hurting, I felt I was short of breath. Deadlines and emails and what's next for the kids in terms of what we need to take care of. And I had to go through a bit of journey to really understand how to relax my nervous system. Right. Mitesh Khatri [00:05:38]: Ultimately our. If we think back to sort of hunter gatherer times and we think about the threats we had, right? We always talk about the lion and we sort of have to run away from the lion, the threat, and then our sort of nervous system can calm down. In today's day and age, we all know with technology and the pace of life, there's almost this ambient stress and therefore our automatic nervous system actually never sort of calms down. So we need to be sort of this safe and secure place. Polyvagal theory sort of talks about this where you need to be safe and secure. The next stage is survival mode and then complete shutdown. And I think many of us, at least me at the time, I was at least in survival mode every day, if not shut down on every other day. And I had to get my body back and I had to sort of calm my body. Mitesh Khatri [00:06:25]: And I have a sort of framework in the book around how we can discharge that stress. And there's techniques and things you can learn to do. And I sort of had to learn how to do that and how to bring my body back to its irregular state. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:38]: And that's never easy. And I guess one thing that comes to mind is you and I talked at the very beginning that you're a busy guy, you have Your professional work, you're balancing that. You're balancing being a dad, you're balancing other things in your life. So talk to me about balance and how you've been able to find that optimal balance for yourself to be able to be the professional you want to be, the person you want to be, the father you want to be as you are today. Mitesh Khatri [00:07:04]: Yeah, I think balance is a very interesting word. Right. I think you have to really dig deep. If I sort of bring a parallel to corporate life, and I've been in corporate Life for like 20 years, helping organizations with complex jobs, blue chip organizations. I'm a sort of marketing corporate strategist, working in research and consulting. And, you know, we're helping brands launch new products and services and ensure they meet consumer needs and doing some complex work around that. And I was sort of succeeding in that sort of arena because I had the metrics to sort of measure and perhaps in the most important area of my life, my family and my children, I didn't have the metrics, I didn't have the measure, and I felt like I was failing. It always came sort of second. Mitesh Khatri [00:07:44]: And I think myself, and when I talk to other dads in the community and friends and colleagues, I find it's an easier thing to measure. So men sort of go towards things we can measure and we get that affirmation we're seeking from work. We get praised with it. And it's this scoreboard, I think, that we can easily track and see. When I think fatherhood's not so easy, it's in feelings, it's in moments, it's in those relationships where you can feel them. But you sort of. No one sort of celebrates the dad that comes home at 5pm on time to put his kids to sleep. But you do get the accolades and success at work when you succeed in your career. Mitesh Khatri [00:08:19]: And I'm not saying that we should sort of give up and forego our careers. I think it's. It's finding ways to measure things that matter. Those moments at home. So it might be the time that you don't actually have your phone on you and just. Just have unstructured play with your children. You're just getting on the floor. You're not in any structured piece of work or structured time is taking them to dance, taking to music, taking him to soccer practice. Mitesh Khatri [00:08:42]: You know, that's very structured. And kids need. Kids need that structure. But I think almost equally important or more important, they need that unstructured time. So I think when you can have those moments, you can say I've had 1, 2, 3, 4 moments this week where I've had really had unstructured time and play with my daughter. Whether we're doing teacups or playing with Barbie dolls or kicking the ball outside. Those are the measures of success that I just didn't have. I had all the traditional stuff, the KPIs that you get in your corporate life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:10]: And there's always this push and pull when it comes to raising daughters. And as you are trying to raise your daughters, you're balancing, trying to guide your daughter while also giving her the independence to become the person that she's becoming. And I know she's still young, but I guess as she has been growing up. How do you balance that? How do you balance guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence? Mitesh Khatri [00:09:32]: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting one. I think kids in general, but daughters especially you are the model they're looking to when it comes to men right from a very young age age. So there's, there's that scanning they do of the environment to see how do you react to situations, how do you carry yourself when things get tough, how do you treat your partner, her mum, you know, how are you treating different women, how do you sort of interact, how do you talk to friends that are female, how do you just treat people in general? So I think they're modeling and learning of what a man should be. So I think you want to sort of help them with that. And in terms of independence, I think it really comes down to having honest, open conversations as much as you can for that age where you can really help them distinguish between right and wrong. What is the right kind thing to do and what is not so kind, what are the sort of right behaviors to be following? I guess. And one of the things I'm always mindful of is no one's a perfect father, but not moving straight from a stimulus like some sort of stressor, straight to anger. And I think we as men tend to do that, perhaps more when especially I was doing that quite a bit where I'd find myself, kids are running late to school, we need to go. Mitesh Khatri [00:10:41]: And I actually get really angry. It'd come out in the force in my voice. And then you sort of how it is, you tell your kids not to shout at the other one and that's what you're doing and that's the behavior and modeling. So I think modeling the right behavior is pretty critical. And that sort of journey of really understanding myself, modeling the right behaviors was pretty critical for Me for the last sort of two years. And, you know, recognizing that actually underneath that anger, it's actually not anger that we're feeling often. Maybe we're hurt because actually we really wanted to spend that hour playing with our daughters before they go to school. Maybe we're sad because. Mitesh Khatri [00:11:14]: Or disappointed because we wanted the morning to go a particular way and on time and not be late for something else. And we sort of go straight. We almost skip that emotion in between. Sadness, disappointment, hurt. Because I think we just weren't taught that. And therefore our daughters are learning that. They're modeling that as well. You know, when I get angry, I'll just. Mitesh Khatri [00:11:33]: I'll just go straight to voice, you know, raise my voice and actually not express my emotions. So I'm trying to say I'm hurt. I'm sorry I didn't do the right thing there. And I apologize. I felt really sad that we couldn't be on time because of these reasons. So it's trying to label the emotion and model that. But I think the independence thing is hard. I think you're always scanning the environment to go, how much do I let her go? How much do I pull her back in? Whether it's at parties, whether it's devices, whether it's certain foods she might be eating or whatever it is. Mitesh Khatri [00:12:02]: That's a tricky one. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:03]: Completely understand. And we never have all the right answers. I mean, we definitely do our best and we try our best to be the best people we can be, but we're flawed. Everybody is flawed in talking about that, I guess. What's the mistake that you've made as a father, and what did you learn about it, about fostering a positive connection with your daughter? Mitesh Khatri [00:12:22]: I think I've made lots of mistakes. Probably like many dads, we all make lots of mistakes. I think one potential mistake I've made my daughter, and it probably comes from being that almost pushy parent when it comes to activities in sports. So sports or music or whatever it is really pushing them, maybe pushing them too much as well. We're often projecting our own childhoods onto our kids. And they can lose the fun, you know, in what they're doing, whether it's dance or they're playing some sport or whatever it is, and I think you want them to do well. But I think it's also recognizing that they're just kids, you know, we're not sort of in the professional leagues. So I think I've really learned from that. Mitesh Khatri [00:13:02]: To not be the parent on the sideline shouting. I think it's encouraging your kids, but not in a way that's perhaps disrupting their sort of natural way to enjoy what they're doing, whether it's. Yeah. Dance or sport or whatever it is. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:16]: Now, as I mentioned, you've got a new book that's out there called the Fight or Father Using Calm to Stop Reacting and Start Connecting. As a author myself, I know that many times when you've got this idea in your head and you got this passion to be able to get these words out and trying to connect with your people that, that you go all in. But you definitely have to have a passion for it to get to that finish line. So give me the story of the book and tell. Talk to me about why. Why you decided to write it, why you decided to put the time, the effort and the passion into it to get it out into the world. Mitesh Khatri [00:13:52]: I never thought I'd be a writer myself, but I've always sort of been research and really, as I was saying to you earlier before we started, always very interested in why people do what they do and what drives our behavior, what motivates us. Right. So I mean, I'm the sort of tragic in the self help section looking at the next book and going, how can I learn from this? I wrote this book because I think modern fatherhood is really breaking men and the expectations have changed and you're supposed to be a provider and present with your kids. You're meant to be the breadwinner and also emotionally available. And no one really taught us. If we think about our father's generation, they didn't really teach us how to do that. Our fathers really had a role which was sacrifice, commit yourself and be the breadwinner and be respected at home and very traditional household. I guess I'm talking to. Mitesh Khatri [00:14:40]: And I think I see a lot of modern parents for really my sort of discoveries on this journey started about five years ago. Kids very young. I see a lot of dads just grinding through it, myself included, exhausted, distracted. We're snapping at our kids. We sort of promise ourselves we're going to do better tomorrow and. But deep down we know something's wrong, something's not working. We need better tools, we need better ways to parent and we know that it's a learning process at all. So I wrote this in almost a way to sort of say we can choose to fight and react and be in that sort of survival mode or shutdown mode when stresses hit with our kids, or we can choose a almost new way to father modern fatherhood. Mitesh Khatri [00:15:19]: I think it takes the best of what our fathers taught us. And it builds on that. And I think it builds on, you know, a lot of what you talk about, Christopher, is, is showing vulnerability. We need to show vulnerability to our children. We need to show not just the masculine side, but actually it's okay to get things wrong. And this is what you do to repair that. And I think, I'm sure there's lots of books that sort of talk to various things around that out there. I didn't see something targeted specifically at that aspect. Mitesh Khatri [00:15:45]: And therefore, yeah, really focused in my own journey of switching from a dad that was reacting all the time at his kids, didn't have the patience. As I said, my body was chronically stressed at the time. I put on weight and wasn't eating well. I was numbing pain through alcohol, etc. And it's not enough to just think yourself to a better version of yourself. You need tools, you need techniques. So I wrote the book and have got some practical techniques on what dads can do. You know, simple things like just having clear boundaries between work and home. Mitesh Khatri [00:16:18]: It's so difficult, particularly post Covid. Many of us are working home in hybrid sort of environments and it blurs. You have your kids next to you in the school holidays. We've got school holidays going on now. My son or daughter will work almost in the same room in a work mode. I might close the laptop, but still mentally be processing the emails that I haven't sent, the tasks I haven't done. So I think it's having those practices to say, you know, simple things, five seconds, where you might go, I'm home now, I've closed the laptop, let me show up. Or you might go wash your face or you might go change your clothes. Mitesh Khatri [00:16:48]: It's just physically doing something. You might do 20 star jumps. But you need that transition process and just one example from work to home. So that calm framework is really around that. So you clear your body of the stress. Firstly, you anchor yourself between work and home. So have a ritual around that. You lead with calm because kids follow your regulations. Mitesh Khatri [00:17:09]: You need to be calm and have techniques for that and model and repair is probably the most important part where when you get it wrong and you will like myself every day, there'll be something I do wrong, I need to admit to it and I need to label what that emotion is, which is then going into my vulnerable side, you know, it's going into really understanding what that emotion is, not just anger and then coming up with a repair, you know. So yeah, I just remember I Actually had an argument with my daughter. I was stressed this A couple of days ago. She wanted to play. She can we play. She likes doing tea parties and cafes in her room. And I didn't have the patient. And I just said to her, I'm really tired. Mitesh Khatri [00:17:47]: I'm stressed. I've had a long day and a hard day. And I shouted at you, is it okay if we start again? And she just looked at me and she said, okay, dad. And I think previously I would have just shouted and said, I'm not doing this, and it's time for bed. So I think. I think it's having those skills. It's. Firstly, I've been quite vulnerable in the book myself. Mitesh Khatri [00:18:04]: So, you know, I've had sort of beta readers say it's been quite difficult to read at times because they've seen themselves in it as well. So I think it'll. It'll definitely make you turn the mirror on yourself and analyze your own life, your own behaviors, and perhaps you'll pick a couple of techniques and tools that you can use to just be that modern father and not fight all the time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]: And one of the things you write about in the book is being there, but not there. And many dads believe simply being physically present is enough. What helped you recognize the difference between proximity and true presence? And how can dads begin to see that difference in their own lives? Mitesh Khatri [00:18:42]: I like the bedtime routine with my daughter. It was actually that really broke me when she said, stop rushing me. And you really, you know, reflect on those things and try to make a change. And you don't always get it right. But my son said to me one day, he was on the, I think, kitchen table, dining table. I was scrolling on Instagram, you know, usual blur posts that we would normally go, just mindless, scrolling, doom scrolling. And Taj was nearby and he. I don't know what he was doing exactly. Mitesh Khatri [00:19:08]: And that was part of the problem. And without looking up, he said, you're always on your phone, dad. Not angry. He wasn't whining, just like matter of the fact. Like, he was describing the weather. And I looked at him and, you know, his face was soft. He was disappointed. He wasn't trying to start a fight with me about it, that he was just telling me the facts for what he saw. Mitesh Khatri [00:19:26]: And I said automatically, almost automatically, I'm not quite defensive. I just need to do this one thing. And clearly I was lying to him, right? I wasn't being honest. I was lying to him. I wasn't being honest to myself. I put the phone down in that moment and I felt my chest get tight and I had a little shake in my hands and I felt enormous guilt that he had just seen me more clearly than I had seen myself. And I think we've all been there and I think researchers, you know, we've heard this all the time, we hear about phones all the time. But technically interference. Mitesh Khatri [00:19:57]: Dr. Brandon Michael actually coined the term where seemingly sort of normal amounts of phone use during parent child time. It's actually linked to increased behavioral problems in children. So the screen time, not because of the screen time itself, but what it communicates like. You're not important to me. Right. Right now, in this moment, this is most important to me. We've all heard that before. Mitesh Khatri [00:20:18]: So that's what I mean by you're there, but you're not really there. You're in the room physically, but in your mind you're somewhere else. You're in another place, you're thinking about something else. You're not actually aware of your surroundings. You're not actually picking up the cues or the people in the room. So I think that in itself because it increases the behavioral problems and we see how much time we spend on our phones and screens. It's something which I've been much more conscious with. Now the phone goes on the charger. Mitesh Khatri [00:20:44]: Leave it there at 6pm in the evening. Sometimes I'll throw it upstairs in the bedroom in a drawer. Because when it's there we're just so automatic. We're so addicted to these devices that are in our pockets that are so powerful. So I think that's really what I mean. We're not there. And that can be a physical device, but it can also be actually we haven't decompressed from the day and we've got all the stress from work or so we're thinking about something else. We're actually not there with our family. Mitesh Khatri [00:21:08]: We're just unavailable and we're not in tuned with not engaging with them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:12]: Now one of the other things that I read in the book was you talk about how many fathers suddenly hear their own dad's voice coming out of their mouths during those stressful moments that you kind of talked about. When that realization happens, what practical steps help a father pause long enough to break that generational pat? Mitesh Khatri [00:21:32]: Yeah, that is a real difficult one. I think. I think what I've done is pause for five seconds. So when you see your voice coming, and you might even hear, you might even see in your children yourself, then your father talking to you In a particular way, that is really difficult. And I think we have to appreciate everything they did for us in terms of sacrificing, building a life and opportunities for us, and appreciate all those things. But at the same time, they maybe didn't know how to deal with that stress or anxiety, anger. And when I say anger, it could be hurt, it could be disappointment, it could be sadness around something. So I think, you know, pausing, reflecting. Mitesh Khatri [00:22:10]: It's a lot of journaling. So the last five years, on and off, journaling, I haven't been as regular. But journaling on those moments where you know that you've almost automatically reacted in a way, and you can hear your father's voice, whether it's the harshness, whether it's the criticism, whether it was the absence of. Of a father. I think we tend to overcompensate from what we had or didn't have. And I think it's a lot of deep reflection that needs to be done. But I just encourage everyone to just pause, pause. You don't have to respond straight away to your kids. Mitesh Khatri [00:22:41]: You can pause for a couple of seconds, reflect, and actually sit with those thoughts. I think you got to do quite a bit of deep work and journal and plenty of services out there where you can talk to psychiatrists and psychologists and so forth to really understand the relationships with our parents. I think I'd also encourage if. If you can and your father's around, have a conversation with him, Talk to him about things that you really have a lot of gratitude for and the things you wish that he could have done better. I think those things, and it's not sort of pointing the finger or blaming anyone, it's just having those honest conversations. And I think you'd be surprised where that might take you as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:17]: It definitely is a journey. And a lot of times we're constantly trying to find new ways to be able to measure up as a dad. And we look around us and we think, oh, all these dads are doing better than we are. And there's almost that. As you talk in the book about that scorecard that we have in our book, about how we are grading ourself, how we're scoring ourselves, and you talk about rethinking that internal scorecard that we use to measure success. What are the most common invisible scorecards that you're seeing that fathers are running, and how do they quietly pull dads away from connection with their kids? But also, how can we change the script on those scorecards and allow for us to be able to look at that in a different way. Mitesh Khatri [00:24:03]: Yeah, I think that there's a powerful primary story here. We almost have this deep obligation we have to build, we have to secure, we have to work long hours. We have to sacrifice. Sacrifice is love. And love looks like a mortgage paid off, a fridge that's full, a future that's funded for the kids. And that is important, you know, and elements of that are really important. And it's a powerful story, and it has deep roots in human history, and male identity has been shaped by that. And I sort of talked about this a little bit earlier, earlier in the sense that fathers of men that do that, you know, they keep reinforcing that scorecard that exists. Mitesh Khatri [00:24:37]: So, you know, status follows the achievement. Respect comes with that success. The man is getting the promotion or close the deal or starting a new business and is an entrepreneur. They get admired. But we're not throwing the awards and accolades for the dad who's performing really well at home with his kids and actually teaching them about vulnerability, teaching them about how to regulate themselves, teaching them about how to show kindness and how to introduce themselves and respect others and be part of the community and. And, you know, have strong values and those sort of things. So I think men chase the thing that's being rewarded, and we pour ourselves into that, you know, into our careers and into our work, and then we don't have much left for the family. So. Mitesh Khatri [00:25:16]: And I think what fathers can do is have that sort of scorecard for themselves. So I have read sort of James Clear Atomic Habits, and, you know, we're all sort of creatures of habits. So in my diary that I physically write, I write time with my wife, specific things I want to do, time with my kids, specific activities, time for my exercise. And I tick those things off, right? So I'm not just my career ticks and successes, but actually, what are my goals for my relationship with my son, my relationship with my daughter, my wife? What are my goals? How am I working towards that and am I sharing those goals, what I'm trying to do? So I think almost like we have KPIs for work, if you have a team and you have some employees and you sort of evaluate them, you can't evaluate them on something you haven't actually given clear KPIs on. And I think it's hard to evaluate yourself on your family life if you're not clear on those KPIs as well, and your children as well. If you want them to respect other people and talk with kindness, then you need to Teach them that. So you need to sit down, maybe it's 10 minutes, maybe it's a couple of hours where you need to show them what kindness looks like. How do you actually talk to someone? How do you greet someone? You know, how do you leave a social situation in a respectful way? I think those things we don't measure and therefore we just think they just happen and get done. Mitesh Khatri [00:26:34]: I think, you know, the adult, the age old sort of saying what gets measured gets done in corporate life also matters in our personal life. And so we need to create those measures at home. And I don't really know what the perfect measures are. It might just be that I had a beautiful moment with my kid today, you know, have a box for that and it's a tick. So there were three nice things that my child said to somebody else as a measure around that. I think we need to create our own measures of success and have some KPI guys similar to what we would do in our career, because that's how you get to the next level. You sort of can't do that in your relationships if you don't know what those measures of success are. So I think we all need to sort of create those. Mitesh Khatri [00:27:12]: And they're going to be different for different, you know, whether it's a girl or a boy or different ages, you sort of need to come up with those and your kids can be part of it, your wife can be part of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:20]: The one thing I really liked about your book, and I think we could spend the next few hours talking about different aspects of your book, but one of the things that I really liked was the fact that your book, as you said, wasn't written from the perspective of someone that's figured everything out. You talk about where you are now, what you've learned along the way, but at the same time that you're still failing, that you're still flawed, and that there's still things to learn. So as you are continuing your journey, what are you still learning about fatherhood that is surprising you? Mitesh Khatri [00:27:52]: So there's just everyday surprises, I guess, with kids. You know, they sort of surprise you in different ways. But I'm just trying to think of more sort of themes that surprise you. Me, I think their maturity surprises me. You sort of sometimes underestimate how much your kids are learning as they grow up and where they're at. They're 7 and 6 and my daughter's 6 years old, but you know, she knows a lot about the world and she is very mature when she needs to be And I sort of sometimes don't want that to go away. Like her being very young, that small little girl, that beautiful girl that I put to bed at bedtime, I don't want her to grow up to too quick. So, I mean, coming back to your question, what, what am I still learning is I think our kids are becoming independent and learning more than sometimes we appreciate or sort of take notice of. Mitesh Khatri [00:28:38]: And I mean, that's come back, comes back to your independence. You know how, you know, you want them to have that independence and learn and grow and not slow them down in those settings. But I think my natural instincts is maybe to slow them down at the age they're at and make sure they don't grow up too quickly. So I think that's a tough sort of battle I'm sort of facing. That's what sort of comes to mind. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:58]: And I guess finally, as I think about your book and for you, as you think about the legacy that you're leaving behind in the book, you ask fathers to consider what their children are going to remember about them. If your kids were adults today, in reflecting on your parenting journey, what do you hope that they would say, say most about you? Mitesh Khatri [00:29:21]: I hope my children at the start of my book, this book is for every that that's trying and I hope they see that I really tried. I, I got it right a lot of the time and probably got it wrong a lot of the time as well. So I think if I can have them growing up seeing a man that really tried to improve themselves, really tried to improve himself around his relationship with them and worked hard at the that and didn't take my situation and where I was, as you know, that's how it is. And I improved on who I was and knowing that those I was never going to be perfect and that I tried, that I love them, that I wanted the best for them and wanted to support them in everything that they did. So particularly with Alia, if I think about her, she has a lot of strength and it's through sensitivity. She feels our feelings much more than my son will. She'll notice things in others. She'll carry emotions that's probably bigger than a small little body. Mitesh Khatri [00:30:18]: I want her to know that she really has a superpower there in terms of that emotional intelligence and she can sort of really sense the situation. I hope that I give them the foundations of what being a good person is, what a kind person is, that vulnerability is strength. Whether you're, whether it's my daughter or my son being vulnerable, being Self aware, being calm when things get tough, showing emotional strength. They're going to be the backbone of everything that sort of helps you in your life, whether it's career or family or social. I want them to get rid of emotional sort of just thinking about it, but I just want them to remember myself and my wife really loved and cared and, and did everything for them to ensure that they got the right values in life, that they got all the opportunities they wanted to have, and that we really tried, that we always loved them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:06]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Mitesh Khatri [00:31:16]: All right, let's try it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:17]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Mitesh Khatri [00:31:20]: Beautiful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:21]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Mitesh Khatri [00:31:26]: Work on you first. Start with yourself. Then you can serve the people you love. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:31]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Mitesh Khatri [00:31:35]: There's many, but. Bedtimes, tea parties, playing with her dolls. I'm definitely a dad that has not done that until my daughter came along. So really getting down on the floor and playing those games. Games. Originally I felt quite ridiculous doing it, but then I thought I found joy in it because I've just never done it before. Just freeing into my sports and, you know, all the manly activities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:55]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Mitesh Khatri [00:32:00]: You know, always, always speak your mind and stand up for yourself. You have a lot of potential. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:06]: Now, you've mentioned a number of these, but what's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Mitesh Khatri [00:32:12]: So much. Yeah. Um, that you really need a lot of patience. We hear it all the time. But I think more importantly, everything you do has to be quite intentional and intentional. And I've heard you talk about it. Chris. Christopher as well. Mitesh Khatri [00:32:23]: Intentionality is probably one of those cornerstones of everything you're doing in fatherhood, especially with your daughters. You've got to be quite intentional, but not, obviously, taking away from unstructured play time. But by being intentional, you can be present, you can be there, not outside the room. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:39]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful, meaningful relationship with their daughters? Mitesh Khatri [00:32:46]: Treat vulnerability as strength. And I think if you were to journal or you talk to some close mates and dads and actually really get into the deep and meaningful and get vulnerable. And in my book, I have A lot of stories from other dads I run with and friends and we start to realize that we're living parallel lives and when we get vulnerable, something unlocks, we learn something. And I think men don't talk enough. So I'm a big advocate of dads talking about talking. And podcasts like this bring different topics and things dads are going through to, to life because we tend to bottle everything up right. We're not very good at that. So I just encourage everyone to talk to someone and around things you're going through and it might surprise you that actually somebody else might be going through very something very similar and can you can relate and you can bond over that. Mitesh Khatri [00:33:35]: So make sure you join these sort of podcasts or some sort of dad group or have a set of friends you can can have those conversations with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:45]: Well, Mitesh, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for putting this book out into the world, for sharing your journey with us today. And it's not over, but I know that it'll keep continuing and you'll keep learning. But I truly want to say thank you and I wish you all the best. Mitesh Khatri [00:33:59]: Thank you so much, Christopher. Really appreciate it. And yeah, the book comes out on 28th of July, so it'll be available Amazon, all sort of good book stores. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]: We'll definitely put a link in the notes today and I congratulate you on getting this out into the world and look forward to others reading it and learning from what you've learned along the way. Mitesh Khatri [00:34:17]: Thank you so much, Christopho. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:18]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at the end dad and daughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:34:49]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the miracle we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to now Be the best dad you can be the best that you can be.

In a world where the father-daughter relationship is often celebrated but not always explored in depth, "The Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast stands out as a guiding light for dads eager to nurture lifelong bonds with their daughters. In the latest heartwarming episode, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Bernard Drew, a proud father, to discuss the unique joys and evolving challenges of raising independent, confident young women. Celebrating Small Moments That Matter One of the central themes of this episode is the importance of everyday intentionality. Bernard Drew recalls a cherished memory—taking his young daughter to a midnight premiere of her favorite movie, Hannah Montana. It wasn't a grand gesture but a simple act of presence and togetherness that, years later, still stands out for both father and daughter. Through stories like this, Bernard Drew emphasizes how small, thoughtful rituals, like watching movies or sharing inside jokes, lay the foundation for meaningful connections. Balancing Guidance with Independence A challenge many fathers face is balancing the instinct to protect with the need to allow daughters the freedom to grow. Bernard Drew shares openly about this ongoing journey. From having those tough conversations ("the sex talks, the hard things with society") to trusting the "seeds previously planted," he reflects on moments when he had to learn to step back and let his daughter own her choices. This powerful message reminds dads everywhere that guidance is important, but space and trust are essential for daughters to flourish as independent thinkers. The Value of Authenticity and Listening Another profound takeaway is the transformation that comes when fathers truly listen. Bernard Drew candidly admits that, growing up, he'd been raised in a "kids are seen and not heard" environment, but realized the importance of letting his daughter have a voice—especially through teenage transitions and life changes. Authentic, open dialogue not only makes daughters feel valued but also strengthens their self-worth. Encouragement for Dads Everywhere Throughout their conversation, both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Bernard Drew stress that being present, engaged, and authentic is more valuable than striving for perfection as a parent. The episode encourages listeners to invest in quality time, foster open communication, and continually learn—not just about their daughters, but about themselves as fathers. Whether you're seeking practical advice or inspiration, this episode offers a candid, uplifting look at what it means to be "the dad she needs." Tune in to strengthen your own connection and join a community devoted to raising confident, empowered daughters. Ready to dive in? Listen to the full conversation and start making your moments count! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week, you. You and I have an opportunity, an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]: You know, I've got two daughters, and every week, I love being able to have you here with me as we're talking about these relationships and we're talking about what we can do to be able to build those stronger relationships, because each of us have a responsibility to be able to be there for our kids, not just our daughters, but our kids. But the relationship that you have with your daughter is a truly unique one and a very special one, and one that you do have to invest in and you have to work on. And that's why this podcast exists. It exists so that every week you have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, and to try to work on something. Might be small, it might be large that you can do to be able to either work on, repair, or continue to build that relationship with your daughter. That's why every week, I love bringing you different guests with different experiences that can help you do just that. And today, we've got another great guest, Bernard Drew is with us, and Bernard is a father of two, but today we're going to be talking about his relationship and his experiences with his own daughter. So I'm really excited to have him here. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]: Bernard, thanks so much for being here today. Bernard Drew [00:02:08]: Dr. Chris, it's a pleasure to be here, and as you know, I've been so enamored. You do so many things from an extraordinary perspective academically, but I am most intrigued that you have this great passion, this relentless desire to support dads and their journeys with daughters. So it's actually an honor to be here and part of this community that you've been able to nurture. Christopher Lewis [00:02:29]: I appreciate you saying that, because it is a passion. It's been something that I've been working on for many, many years. And I love being able to talk to dads like you that have been right in it. And even today, I know today is your daughter's birthday, so happy birthday to your daughter. And while this will come out after your daughter's birthday, you we were just talking about the fact that before you came to be on the show today that you were over giving her a birthday present and dropping that off before we were talking. And it's those special moments, those little moments that so much. And I know your daughter is an adult now, and I. And I guess first and foremost, as we talk about that relationship with your daughter, talk to me about for you what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughter and what made it so special as Bernard Drew [00:03:16]: it's her birthday today. And I'll be grateful. We have a lot of great memories, one that always stands out. I think she had to been maybe 6 years old. And we're going back. She turned 24 today. So we're talking about, wow, that's crazy. Almost 18 years ago, maybe she was 6 or 7. Bernard Drew [00:03:32]: She had maybe about 7. And she was just absolutely enamored with Hannah Montana on the television on Disney Channel. And man, that was her show. And I would sit and spend time and just watch it with her and just hanging out. And long story short, they ended up having a movie came out and I ended up buying tickets so that she could go at midnight when it first opened that night to go see it. And we have a picture. And to this day, that is one of the most precious memories for her. Like my dad took me to see Hannah Montana at midnight. Bernard Drew [00:04:04]: To her, the thought of going to a movie at midnight was absur. Who does that? But then to be able to take her little Hannah Montana guitar and sit in the show and it's just a lot of those little moments compound them over time. And I'm so grateful. Almost regardless of any other accomplishments or accolades in life, man, I have enjoyed my journey with my daughter. Christopher Lewis [00:04:23]: All of us, as we go through this journey with our daughters and with our kids, we have to balance the expectations that we have. We have to balance the drive that we have to be able to guide them, to help them. Men in general, 10 to be helpers. They tend to be solvers. And sometimes that can be to the detriment of being a father to a daughter. So I guess the question that I have is either now that your daughter is an adult, or as she's grown up into the adult that she is today. How did you balance or how do you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to be the person that she was becoming as she was getting older or that she continues to become as she gets older? Bernard Drew [00:05:08]: Well, you went straight to one of the most profound, reflective questions we could go into here. And I'll say it's definitely an evolving spectrum, even today, and how to be the dad that she needs for this stage and season in life, and even how my role has evolved in years past. And sometimes I got it great. Sometimes it was like, oh, I missed the exit ramp when I was supposed to be a little less overbearing and give her a little more room to explore and discover. But I think it's somewhere in between that line of being a dad who wants to protect and prevent harm as well as the dad who wants to, hey, I need you to be prepared for this. So in our household, I was the one to have the hard conversations. I had the sex talks. I had the conversations about hard things with society and everything else. Bernard Drew [00:05:53]: That was a dad daughter thing. My wife was like, I'm so glad you're handling that. And I was glad to. I want my daughter to be prepared. But I think it was her sophomore year in high school, and she was volunteering, I do believe, to support the National Honor Society induction. And it dawned on me that she's going to be participating in this next year, two years from now. It finally hit me in the late spring of her sophomore year. I've got two more years with her, and she could be gone forever when she graduates high school. Bernard Drew [00:06:19]: I have no more, for lack of better words, control where she goes to college. I want her to have a confident choice where she goes. She could go to the other side of the country, and she could then plant roots somewhere else, and this might be it. And I started being almost, not quite overwhelmed, but my mind being inundated with, oh, my God, I got two years to prepare her for what life has in store. Store. And I started to come up with this master list of things that I'm like, oh, she's got to know this and do that, do this and do that, and I got to prepare for this. And I'll just say, I think I was being prayerful and just in conversation with God. The Holy Spirit was like, whoa, son, slow down. Bernard Drew [00:06:53]: You're doing too much. Do you trust the seeds that have already been planted? Do you trust the demonstrated leadership, love, kindness, and principles you've already expressed to her? If you trust that the seeds that were planted were helpful, they were healthy, they were appropriate, they were going in the right direction, then now is not the time to get hasty and start stirring, covering things up unjustly. Trust the seeds that have been planted. And at this stage, you have to make sure you're trusting me to be inside of her, to give her the guidance, the insight, the resilience she's going to need. And if nothing else, who is the village that's around her that you can be intentional to cultivate and nurture that at a stage where it's probably easy for her to be like, oh, there's my dad talking again. There's my dad with another lecture. Who are the other people that are in our social circles that she can be entrusted to spend time with? And they may also sprinkle some principles in her life to water the seeds that have already been planted. And I'll say that was one of the single greatest pivots and perspectives that ever happened, because then she was able to begin discovering the principles that were inside of her, that she owned and she believed for herself, because she chose to. Bernard Drew [00:08:00]: As opposed to feeling like, oh, there's my dad telling me what to do again, she was able list a little bit more, able to determine like, no, this is who I am, because I chose to decide that this is who I am. And I would say that's a perpetual journey I'm still on of keeping an eye on where that balance is. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]: It's never easy, and it's definitely something you have to work on because inevitably we step over the line and then they smack us and they say, you've stepped over the line. And they tell us that especially as they get older. And they will definitely do that. I've had that happen to me numerous times now. It sounds from everything that you're saying that you have done some very intentional things to be able to build the relationship that you have with your daughter. Talk to me about what some of those intentional ways were that you did to work to strengthen that bond with your daughter, especially, let's say, during challenging times. Bernard Drew [00:08:55]: I would like to think that I have a ironclad answer, but I just have to speak towards. It's a journey. We're all always evolving and all always learning. I do believe early on, and I'll just be candid, I think one of the strongest things that she saw was that her dad loved her and loves her mom, and that regardless of what, there's no other priority that goes above them next to God. And so I think for her to see that and know that over the years. And does that mean perfection? No. But I think there's an unequivocal understanding that dad prioritizes you. You matter. Bernard Drew [00:09:28]: You are important. It is a joy to spend time with you, and time with you is valuable to me. And I think that that has paid major, major dividends because it's not a foreign thought. So whether things are going exceptionally well in her life and dad is hanging out with her, that's a normal thing. Or if things are really tough and unclear and some strain, she knows dad is there. And so I think a lot of that stemmed from just the early years of her knowing, hey, my dad loves spending time with me, and this is important to him. And I think that has paid incredible dividends over the years. Christopher Lewis [00:10:03]: So none of us are infallible. None of us. All of us as fathers, have made mistakes along the way. What's a mistake that you've made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication or other things in relation to yourself as a father? Bernard Drew [00:10:22]: Great question. I can think of a number of areas, if it comes down to it. Whereup, Mr. Mark there. Mr. Mark there. I think one that stands out the most to me, kind of that same vein of that earlier revelation about, hey, stop doing too much, give her space to flourish with what's already been planted. I would say in a similar capacity, I had the hard conversations with her all the time, and included in that with boys. Bernard Drew [00:10:44]: And so I don't have excessive regret here, but enough to be like, oh, yeah, I was probably over the top. I kind of had a zero tolerance policy. I don't want to hear a boy calling you. I don't want to have any boys showing up at the house. I just, whatever, just stay focused on your studies, and I don't want to hear anything about it. And as much as that was well intended and I think it's done as well and she's still doing well today, in hindsight, I'm like, you know what, Bernard? Your parents were fairly rigid, but they weren't that rigid. And there's some virtue to allowing kids while they're under my roof. If I'd have done it all over again, I probably would have created a safer space for her to explore and navigate relationships while under our roof. Bernard Drew [00:11:27]: In a space where if and when, because we all make goofy decisions as we're navigating relationships, I probably would have been in a better position to kind of observe from a closer distance. And coach and help course correct and then give insight because we're sitting here, right here, observing it. And I'm grateful that she didn't go off the deep end or anything too extreme, at least that I know of. But it's something that I wish I could have coached her on that a little bit more while she was close to home. I think our. I don't know if I'll call it Saving grace was in her case. She left for school, had one year of undergrad, and then Covid hit and she came back home again for a year and a half. And so I kind of got a second chance in that space. Bernard Drew [00:12:07]: But if I were to have given myself some different advice, it would have been to give her more opportunity to make a few mistakes and learn from them while she was in the house and nurtured more of that coaching dad dynamic with her earlier versus later. Yet I'm grateful that it has worked out well. Christopher Lewis [00:12:25]: So today, or as she was growing up, what did or do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard? Bernard Drew [00:12:34]: It's a journey and a spectrum. I think the valued piece I enjoy spending time with her. The things that she enjoyed, I learned to enjoy. Some of her favorite shows became some of my favorite shows. The volume of inside jokes she and I have today as a result of all of those shared experiences between you and I. And I guess whoever sees this, my wife, I think, is almost jealous sometimes because we have just a volume of things that we delved into that she knows she was valued. And I spent that time with her in terms of her voice. You know, it's interesting. Bernard Drew [00:13:02]: I think I kind of grew up in an era that it was like, hey, I hate to say it, kids are seen and not heard. I think I had a certain dynamic of that through much of her elementary years, middle school years, like, hey, just do what we told you to do, and that's it. And I think as high school evolved, she had a tough pivot transitioning into her high school. And I think that was the time frame where she and I began discovering that I needed to leave more room for her voice because this is her school experience. And though we kind of made the decision where she would go, she needed to take ownership and find joy in it. And so I think that was the season where we sit at the kitchen table and we'd have long conversations and I would listen to her talk to me about the challenges she was having at the school and how she was navigating certain challenges and allowing her voice to actually be heard and not just quiet it, because I'm dad and your daughter. And I think that was a turning point for us that allowed her voice to be valued as much as I thought that I valued her. Christopher Lewis [00:14:02]: And how do you support your daughter now, or as she was growing up, getting into college, et cetera, in pursuing the dreams and the passions that she has? Bernard Drew [00:14:13]: Man, I'll definitely say this. I think that is one of the greatest roles as a father, is affirming for her that she has value. I mean, candidly, the card I gave her today, it had two words in there, power and purpose. She knows I'm the corny dad. And yep, I will have a lecture ready any given minute and it's going to be corny and it's that and the other. But it is what it is. And so even today, the card I gave her for her birthday talked about purpose and power and affirming for her that inside of her you have power. There is a limitless power inside of you to be able to curate the life that you desire. Bernard Drew [00:14:44]: And while doing that, to make the impact that you've been called to do, you have purpose. And so that has been a heavy dynamic. When she was approaching her 13 birthday, I was kind of inspired. I grew up in a community that had a strong Jewish population. And so I had a lot of friends that were in Hebrew school. And by the time they got to 13, having their bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs and being able to demonstrate a level of maturity and adulthood and command of their faith. Her 13th birthday, we kept it fun and light. That's the joy my wife brings to the table. Bernard Drew [00:15:14]: She keeps things real light and fun most of the time. But I did have my daughter actually read several books, books and write me reports on purpose leading up to her 13th birthday. And I had her assemble those thoughts in her own phrasing, her own lens of life at 12 going on 13 on what purpose means and how important is purpose in your life and how do you express purpose and why is purpose important to other people around you? And so she put together a, I don't know how long it was, maybe a five to seven minute talk presentation at her 13th birthday party with family, friends and folks assembled. And as much as he have fun cake and did all kind of fun stuff and games with her friends, there was a segment where she got to express this understanding of purpose and what it means to her. And I think those are the kind of things that in their totality, that is one of the Things I think helped continue to affirm for her. I see purpose inside of you and you as you discover for yourself, a confidence in who you are. There's no limit to what you can do in your life. And so if I fast forward, I'm inspired that she harnessed that and I think, think that type of journey she's had is what fuels her. Bernard Drew [00:16:23]: Having pursued an undergraduate degree in elementary education, she wants to impact the lives of kids and she's doing that even now. Christopher Lewis [00:16:31]: What's a tradition or a routine that you and your daughter have created together that strengthen your bond? Bernard Drew [00:16:36]: Again, it evolves over time, but most of it, can I tell you, it involves quality time. And I don't know if I've done a deep analysis of the five love languages in her life. Maybe I should. But I'll say this, this, that quality time with her, whether it was the watching the Disney shows with her when she was at her youngest, I will say I think she had been in the first grade and we had a routine every morning and we did this for several years that before going to school she would come into my office and we would read together. I was introducing her to the Bible and so she was spending some time just getting familiar and telling me her thoughts about what she had read. And it gave us opportunity just to connect. And we did that for several years. That was first thing in the morning before going to school. Bernard Drew [00:17:17]: And so I think those kind of moments, moments definitely over time set the tone that hey, dad wants to spend time with me. And so in terms of routine, those were routine at that time. But as she's grown older, I'll just say the engagement isn't nearly as routine. But I think the routine early on set the tone that man, I value that quality time with you and you can communicate your genuine authentic thoughts. And it's evolved into the kind of relationship where my wife is definitely one who goes to bed early because she wakes up extra early. My daughter and I tend to be more night owl and it's not uncommon whether it was in high school while she was navigating undergrad and was living with us. It's not uncommon for us to cross paths in the kitchen at 8:30 at night and just sit at the kitchen table and talk for two, three, four hours and just talk. And that I believe is one of the greatest gifts in life, that she enjoys hanging out with her dad. Bernard Drew [00:18:11]: So I'm thankful. Quality time. Christopher Lewis [00:18:12]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection six, which are six questions that are gonna delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? Bernard Drew [00:18:21]: I don't think I have another choice. Go for. Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Bernard Drew [00:18:26]: I would say fun. Christopher Lewis [00:18:27]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Bernard Drew [00:18:32]: Again, I have to go with just train them up in the direction they're supposed to go in. Just train them early. They have their own path to take. Train them early, and then you have confidence that they'll flourish in the assignment and into the character that they're supposed to walk in. Christopher Lewis [00:18:45]: You already talked about this a little bit, but what's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together today? Bernard Drew [00:18:51]: Watching movies. So now that she's got her own home, it's kind of fun that it's not uncommon. I'll go over to her house, and we'll sit up and watch a movie or two and just hang out and talk and so movies. I think we've done three Broadway shows together now. Also, my wife's not the greatest fan of theater, but my daughter and I will go, and those are some of the greatest things that we enjoy doing. Christopher Lewis [00:19:11]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Bernard Drew [00:19:16]: Your life is always resilient. With the love of God. You can always bounce back from anything. Just keep your trust in him. Christopher Lewis [00:19:22]: And what's one one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Bernard Drew [00:19:27]: I would say there's probably been no sacrifice that's been made for the wellness of my kids. It wasn't worth it. Christopher Lewis [00:19:32]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Bernard Drew [00:19:40]: I think authenticity, the level of authenticity that loves and meets them where they are and loves them, nurtures and encourages them from where they are. The other side of that coin is the level of authenticity to learn to love and forgive yourself. I think sometimes as men and as dads, I'm not gonna overgeneralize here, but sometimes we can be bound to the ignorance we may have had in the past and think that that has to dictate whatever pathways to the future. And the reality is, just like, there's an endless opportunity for our kids to evolve. There's an endless opportunity for us to evolve. And so I would extend to dads, you're worth the time to reinvest in you. If it's reading certain books, if it is is therapy, if it's counseling, if it is just finding a safe space and environment where you can talk freely and get certain things off your chest. And maybe here's some other perspectives. Bernard Drew [00:20:30]: You're worth that opportunity, too. And as much as you may fight so hard to to create safe spaces for other people, give yourself the same grace to find some space for you to evolve into the best version of yourself, too. Christopher Lewis [00:20:43]: Well, Bernard, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing the unique journey of you and your daughter. As you said, it's always evolving. It's changing, but it is so exciting to hear about the strong bond that you and your daughter have. And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here and I wish you the best. Bernard Drew [00:21:01]: Thank you very much. And again, I just appreciate you doing this. I think one of the greatest relationships on the planet is the relationship with a dad and his daughter. And for dads to be encouraged and coached and inspired. Probably one of the single greatest investments that can be made in anybody's lifetime. So thank you for making this commitment. Greatly appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:18]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build strong, stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Speaker D [00:21:49]: We're all in the same boat Christopher Lewis [00:21:56]: is Speaker D [00:21:56]: full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenter and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can Bernard Drew [00:22:39]: be Speaker D [00:22:42]: Be the best dad you can be.

Hey dads—welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, where we talk practical, real-world ways to strengthen the relationship you have with your daughter in just five minutes. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're diving into a season that's both exciting and emotional for many dads: Helping your daughter transition to adulthood with confidence. Whether she's graduating high school, heading to college, starting a job, or moving out on her own, this is a major milestone—for her and for you. And as much as you may want to hold on, your role is shifting from protector to guide. So how do you support her independence while still staying close? Let's talk about how to do that with presence, patience, and purpose. Why This Transition Is a Big Deal Becoming an adult doesn't happen overnight. It's a slow, sometimes messy process. Your daughter may bounce between independence and insecurity. One moment she wants advice, the next she's sure she knows everything. And that's normal. What she really needs during this season is: Your trust in her ability to grow Your availability when she needs guidance And your reminders that she's not doing this alone When you show up in these ways, you're not just parenting—you're empowering. 3 Ways to Support Her Transition with Confidence 1. Shift from Solving to Coaching Your daughter is going to face adult-level problems—budgeting, job interviews, tough decisions. It's tempting to swoop in and solve them for her. But the real gift is helping her think through them herself. Try asking: "What options are you considering?" "What do you think your next step should be? "Want to talk it through together?" This teaches her that she has the tools—and that you trust her to use them. You're still there, but you're no longer holding the steering wheel. 2. Normalize Struggle and Growth Transitioning into adulthood comes with failure, doubt, and second-guessing. One of the most powerful things you can do? Let her know that's okay. Say things like: "Adulting is hard sometimes, and it's totally normal to feel overwhelmed." "You don't have to have it all figured out—none of us do." "Trying and failing doesn't make you weak. It makes you brave." When she feels safe to stumble, she'll be more willing to try. That's confidence rooted in reality—not perfection. 3. Stay Connected Without Hovering Your daughter still needs you, just in a different way. A simple check-in text, a shared lunch, or a weekend visit means more than you might think. Send a "thinking of you" message Ask, "What's something new you've learned this week?" Offer help without insisting on it This shows her: "I'm still here. Just differently now." Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Reach out to your daughter in a way that supports her independence and reminds her of your presence. It could be: A note that says, "I'm proud of the woman you're becoming." A text that says, "I'm here if you ever want to talk through life stuff." An invitation to grab coffee and celebrate how far she's come Let her know: 💬 "I trust you to take on the world—and I'll be cheering you on every step of the way." That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. The road from girlhood to womanhood isn't always smooth—but when your daughter knows her dad believes in her, it makes the bumps feel a little smaller. Until next time—keep guiding, keep encouraging, and keep reminding her that growing up doesn't mean growing apart.

Hey dads! Welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, where five intentional minutes spark deeper bonds with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're tackling a modern challenge: How to stay connected with your daughter even when travel or work takes you away. Whether you're on a business trip, a deployment, or just headed out of town, being apart can be tough on both of you. But distance doesn't have to mean disconnection. Let's turn travel into an opportunity to build trust, anticipation, and closeness—no matter how many miles lie between you. Why It Matters Absence can create worries: "Is Dad thinking of me?" "Does he miss me?" When you're intentional, you answer those questions before they're asked. You show her that wherever you are, she's always in your heart—and on your mind. 3 Practical Ways to Stay Connected While Traveling 1. Establish a "Virtual Ritual" Pick a small, repeatable habit that you do together—no matter where you are. ·       Morning Text Check-In: Send a photo of your coffee or sunrise and ask her how she slept. ·       Evening Voice Note: Record a 30-second "goodnight" message sharing one thing you're proud of her for. ·       Daily Question Exchange: Each day, ask the same two questions—"What made you smile today?" and "What's one thing you're curious about?" These micro-moments turn ordinary routines into emotional lifelines. 2. Share a Digital "Adventure Journal" Use a shared photo album, note app, or group chat to create a joint travel journal. ·       Upload photos of local sights—ice cream stands, cool street art, your hotel view. ·       Jot down quick voice memos describing a funny language mix-up or a delicious snack you tried. ·       Encourage her to reply with her own mini journal entries—school highlights, a new friend, or a homework win. This isn't just you reporting in—it's a two-way story you write together, weaving your worlds even when you're apart. 3. Plan a Countdown Surprise Turn your return into a celebration she can help stage in advance. ·       Countdown Calendar: Share a digital calendar marking off days until you get back. ·       Surprise Reveal: Have her choose or create something you'll do together—bake cookies, hike, or movie night. ·       Welcome-Home Note: Ask her to leave sticky notes around the house—"Can't wait to hug you!"—and send her a similar message to find when she wakes up. Anticipation is a powerful connector—both for her and for you. Quick Takeaway: Start Today! Here's your challenge: Pick one of these ideas and launch it before your next trip—even if it's just across town. Set up a virtual ritual (morning text or nightly voice note). Create your shared digital journal right now—take one photo or voice note today. Sketch a simple countdown calendar and share it with her. These small, consistent actions tell your daughter: 💬 "I'm here for you—no matter where I am." And that message? It crosses every time zone. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If you found this helpful, share it with another dad who's often on the move. Until next time—keep showing up, even when you're away, and keep growing that unbreakable connection. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5—your five-minute guide to building lasting relationships with your daughter, one intentional moment at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're tackling a question that hits many dads right in the heart: How do you stay close to your daughter as she grows more independent? It's a bittersweet transition. The little girl who once ran into your arms now closes her bedroom door. She's making her own choices, forming opinions, building a life that isn't centered on you—and that's a good thing. That means you've done your job well. But it doesn't mean your relationship has to fade. Let's talk about how to keep that bond strong, even as she steps confidently into her own independence. Why This Season Matters As your daughter becomes more independent—whether she's 12, 18, or 25—what she really needs is to know that: You still see her You still support her And your love is unconditional, even if she needs you in different ways now She might not ask for your help like she used to, but she still values your presence, your approval, and your interest in who she's becoming. 3 Ways to Stay Connected as She Grows Up 1. Stay Curious, Not Controlling Instead of trying to stay close by holding on tight, stay close by letting go with intention. Ask her questions that invite conversation without judgment: "What's something you've been thinking about a lot lately?" "What's something new you're proud of?" "Want to bounce any ideas off me?" Let her know you're interested in her as a person, not just as your daughter. Curiosity says, "I care about who you are today." 2. Respect Her Space, But Be Consistently Present Your daughter may not need you to solve problems anymore—but she still needs to know you're there. Send a short text that says, "Thinking of you. Hope today's going well." Leave a sticky note or send a meme that'll make her smile. Invite her for lunch, a coffee, or a walk—but don't push if she says no. You're showing her that connection is always available, without pressure. That presence builds safety—and trust. 3. Celebrate Her Growth—Out Loud As she becomes more independent, she needs to hear that you're proud of who she's becoming—not just what she's doing. Say things like: "I love seeing how confident you've become." "You're handling that like a total adult—I'm seriously impressed." "Even though we don't talk as often, I think about you every day." These words are powerful. They reinforce your bond and remind her: "Dad still sees me, believes in me, and supports me—just in a new way." Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Send your daughter a short message today that recognizes her independence and reminds her of your love. Try: "I see how much you've grown lately—and I'm proud of who you're becoming." Or: "You may be more independent now, but I'll always be here if you need me." She may not say it out loud, but that message might be exactly what she needs to hear today. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. Remember—staying close isn't about holding on tight. It's about showing up with respect, love, and quiet consistency. Your daughter's growing independence isn't the end of your bond—it's just a new chapter. Until next time—keep cheering her on, keep being steady, and keep reminding her that no matter how far she goes, she'll always have a place in your heart. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

If you're a dad looking for meaningful ways to connect with your daughter and navigate the often tricky terrain of emotions, the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast is essential listening. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, this episode features Cheryl Rosenberg—a coach and creator of the Healing Artfully program. Together, they unpack the challenges and rewards of building lasting father-daughter relationships. Understanding Through Story and Experience Cheryl Rosenberg opens the conversation by reflecting on her own close relationship with her father, emphasizing how his steady love, honesty, and encouragement shaped her life. She shares that the simple act of her father being present—whether teaching her to paint or expressing pride in her achievements—made an enduring difference in her confidence and sense of being valued. Her story is a reminder that it's the consistent, every-day practices—not grand gestures—that lay a foundation for trust and communication. Reconnecting When Emotions Run High One of the central themes of the episode is how fathers can best respond during the turbulent teenage years, when daughters might seem withdrawn or overwhelmed by big emotions. Cheryl Rosenberg notes that, for many dads, the instinct is to "fix" things or resort to logic and discipline. But often, what daughters need most is simply their dad's calm presence and willingness to listen. As Dr. Christopher Lewis puts it, "connection doesn't come from fixing, it comes from presence." Tools for Emotional Connection The episode delves into creative solutions for building rapport, especially when words fall short. Cheryl Rosenberg's Healing Artfully program encourages both daughters and parents to use artistic expression and journaling to process feelings and spark honest discussions. These activities don't require artistic talent—just the willingness to explore and share emotions together. Dads are encouraged to participate, using art and even weekly "check-ins" to open new avenues of dialogue and trust. Practical Takeaways for Every Dad Listeners will come away with actionable advice: set aside regular time to check in, engage in shared activities (even a simple card game), and respond with compassion rather than quick solutions. And most of all, dads are reminded that their steady presence and acceptance are the anchors their daughters need to thrive. Ready to build a closer relationship with your daughter? Tune in to this episode and start the conversation today. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there, it's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our own daughters to make them be as strong as they can be and to help us build those strong lasting relationships that'll help us to be amazing dads, but also having amazing relationships with our kids. And every week I love being able to have you here to be able to work on this together. And I love being able to introduce you to people that have resources that can help you to be able to do just that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:25]: And today's guest is someone that I know you're going to appreciate. Cheryl Rosenberg is a coach, and she's the creator of the Healing Artfully program, where she helps students ages 12 to 20 who are struggling with big emotions, disruptive behaviors, or stress at home or school. But you know what I love about Cheryl's work is that she doesn't just focus on the child. She works closely with All of Us as Overwhelmed Parents: Helping Families Rebuild Connections, Emotional Regulation, and Peaceful Communication. If you're a dad who's ever felt unsure how to respond to your daughter's big feelings or wondered how to reconnect when things may feel tense, this conversation is definitely going to be for you. Cheryl, thanks so much for being here today. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:02:14]: Thank you for having me, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:16]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here today, and As always, I love being able to start the conversation reflecting back on your own relationship with your father. I guess first and foremost, before we even get into the relationship, tell me a little bit about your dad. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:02:31]: I would love to. My father, he was raised in a very poor environment. Grandfather was out of work, and they had very little food, which made my father very self-sufficient and very driven to be crosshu— provide for his family. And he was a wonderful man. He was honest and sincere and very loving. And he had a brother who was not quite as capable as he, and he would take him to different job sites and get him work that he could do, stuff that he was able to complete and, um, contribute. He had wonderful hand skills. He could make anything. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:03:17]: But my father was 17 when he went into the Army in— during World War II. He was all over the European theater, and he would tell me stories about being there and what they would do, and about going into farmhouses that had been vacated, and they'd find potatoes and cook those. That's the only thing they had to eat. And about different battles and, and how they survived and the different things that they did. He was very fair. He was hands-on, and he was just so loving. And I used to love to sit next to him on the couch on a Sunday afternoon and watch a movie with him. And if he had seen the movie, he would tell me a little bit about it. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:04:04]: And I, I just loved to listen to him, listen to him talk. And he had his old ways and his old patterns of speech, but he was a self-made man and he did very well for himself. He was a telegrapher on the railroad, which means that he would take the messages that were sent and he could more or less tap Morse code and, and then get down to the tracks and change the— change the direction of the tracks. And that was up in the tower, his tower too, where he worked. But Couldn't have asked for a better father. He was there for me all the time. And I didn't have a great mother, but I did have a great father and he made up for it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:51]: So tell me one thing that your dad did that made you truly feel seen, heard, or valued as a daughter. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:04:59]: Well, he always taught me— I always felt like he wanted me to be my best, do my best, and he would speak to me in those terms and tell me how I could do that and what I needed to do. And then he'd say, "Try it. Just be— just be diligent in your efforts." And he would tell me about working in school and how he was so proud of that, of me and my schoolwork. And he would say, you know, "You, you've done a marvelous job with—" I always— cleaning the house or doing the laundry or, like I said, schoolwork or being a good sister to my sister, helping my mother and helping him. I used to love to help him paint. I took on his ability to paint and I used to hand paint furniture artistically. So he taught me that and that was ingrained in me and he just always made me feel loved and cared for. And I would go to him with anything because he was so understanding. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:05]: Now, looking back, was there a moment where your dad's support or guidance had a significant impact on your growth? Or confidence? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:06:14]: I don't remember any one specific time. I just— it was constant. There was a constant feeling of support and love, and I can't think of a one particular incident at this moment, but he was always there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:30]: Now, no father is perfect. We all have our flaws. What are some things you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:06:39]: Well, this may surprise you, but my sister and I have talked about this at length. And my sister and I both wish that our father had left our mother. But he wouldn't do that. He was from that era where you didn't divorce. When he was home, he would take care of a situation that she had created. But when he wasn't, we were at her mercy. And, uh, so that was the one thing we wish that he would have left and taken us. With him because it could be bad when he wasn't there. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:07:13]: So we felt like it would have been better to— for him to step in and, and help us all the time, when some of the time he would just let her take charge and we would be— we never knew what was coming. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:27]: What do you feel is one thing that your dad taught you that has made a huge impact on your life? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:07:34]: To be and do my best at everything that I tried. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:38]: And if you had the opportunity to spend a day with your dad now doing anything, what would it look like? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:07:45]: It would look like going to an, an old park where he would take my sister and I when we were children, going there and sitting on a blanket because we did that, uh, we did that often with him and sitting around and talking and, or possibly a movie. He was a big movie buff and knew all the actors and would tell us everything that he knew about them. It was a lot of fun to be with him, and he would play games with us. And today I would so love to be able to chase around with him and just enjoy his company. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]: Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you have a program called Healing Artfully, and for dads who may not be familiar with your work, tell me more about Healing Artfully and what kind of challenges are families usually facing when they come to you. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:08:31]: Healing Artfully is designed for children and teens who cannot express themselves in words. They, they don't know where to begin. They really don't know about their feelings. They're kind of lost. And part of healing artfully is also journaling. And I teach them to spend, even if it's 5 minutes, journal. Journal what happened that day. Journal how you feel. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:08:59]: Their feelings are so important, and that's the biggest part of the program. And I don't just do— we don't just do the mind, we do whole body. So you can't just work on one part, you need to do the entire sweep of the body, okay, and the mind. So I teach them good habits, and if you establish good morning routines, that'll keep you alive longer. It's been proven. So I teach them to have good hygiene, to have a good exercise habit, whether it's in the morning— even if it's just waking up in the morning and getting out of the bed and marching for 4 minutes just to get your body started. And then later on in the day, do some exercises. We do the health, we do the, the food. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:09:55]: We talk about a healthy diet. A healthy diet supports a healthy mind. And it just teaches them a good way to live their life. And then we work on solving the emotional part through the artwork. And there is no talent involved. It is strictly what you see in your mind, what you're feeling. And we talk a bit about color and strokes and how those things can be— translated into your emotions. What this— what you've done and what you see on the paper talks about your feelings. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:10:35]: And so we, we sit and discuss that, and that gives them an outlet to start talking. And eventually they open up and they start talking about their emotions. And that is not the only program. I have 4 other programs that we do, and it— I have a toolkit for parents where I give them dialogue and I give them worksheets and It's bringing the parent and the team together. It's family-oriented. You can't have one person in the family working on their issues and no one else understands what's going on. So we work as a unit. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:14]: I know that in a number of your programs you talk about expression and being able to use some creativity. And I guess, how can creative expression help daughters relate regulate emotions and how can dads participate in that process even if they don't consider themselves— I'm gonna say artistic per se? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:11:36]: Uh, well, the good thing about it is it doesn't require any artistic skills at all as far as the healing artfully goes. They are, uh, the parents come in after sessions and we discuss the work together and a father and a daughter can really open up because I think fathers sometimes are they just feel awkward and really don't know how to get their daughters to open up or to comfort them or— so if they're brought in and we explain and talk about the work that their child has done, then it starts creating a little path for them to walk down to get to where they're more comfortable approaching their daughters they're more open and they're ready to listen and it brings the families into— sometimes into a great discussion and they will talk about incidents that had happened throughout the week, how it was handled, what could we do now to handle that in a better way. I have had some great success with just using the art and giving the parents the know-how to handle many different situations with that child. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:55]: A lot of dads tell me that as they have gone through those teenage years, they sometimes feel shut out, especially when emotions run high. I guess from your experience, what's really happening underneath those big emotions or disruptive behaviors, and how can dads be able to be helpful in those periods? But also, how can they come back in per se and not be as shut out in that whole process? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:13:22]: Well, you're right. Chris, that is definitely a time when fathers just kind of throw their hands in the air, and they do feel left out because a lot of times girls and their mothers don't think that dad is really all that interested in this girly stuff. But in reality, they are, and it doesn't have to be every little detail. But say if your daughter is preparing to go to a dance, then she can, uh, involve dad by putting on her dress and saying, "Dance with me! Let's have a dance together before I—" have to dance at the prom, putting the dress on and asking dad what he thinks. Does he like it? Does he like the color? Just bringing him into what's going on with his daughter. And moms can be a great service in that area too, to get dad going, get him interested, and get him to feeling comfortable about relating to his daughter in the feminine areas. I think men Um, and boys are— feel very awkward, and so they just kind of don't respond at all when their response is so important. So it's just an easy— it doesn't have to be a big deal. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:14:36]: Things are much easier than people imagine. Just doing us that simple thing like, hey Dad, I'm gonna go try on my dress, I want you to tell me what you think. Hey, let's take a few dance steps together. Just something that gets him smiling and comfortable and they're engaging with one another. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:55]: So what I'm hearing you say is the reaction of a father is definitely very important. And I guess when I think about that, I know that when a dad reacts to his daughter's stress with logic, fixing, or discipline, that can have kind of the negative impact. And I guess as you have seen that and worked with families, what impact does that make when a dad does come to that situation and try to provide logic, fixing, or discipline, which is kind of an MO for a lot of men or a lot of fathers. And I guess, what is a more emotionally attuned response that a dad can do? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:15:31]: I would suggest that the father and the daughter set aside some time each week for a short talk. Doesn't have to be a long drawn-out affair. Just, hey, let's check in. Let's put this on the calendar. Let's check in on this day, and I want to hear what you've done this week, and I might have some suggestions for you, and then make suggestions for the next week and what you can do. I would like to see you accomplish this. How do you feel about that? Do you feel comfortable? Do you think you can get moving on that? Do you need some suggestions? Do you need some help? It's so important that, that they are connecting and that there's compassion and there's thought and compassion and that everybody feels that. Everybody can sense that we're working on a problem, but we're having a good time doing it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:23]: So it sounds like a lot of daily work. And I guess, are there specific small daily practices that dads can do to either work on the relationship, rebuild trust, and provide that emotional safety to a daughter, especially if their daughter is pulling back or maybe they seem withdrawn or reactive or overwhelmed? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:16:44]: Well, the best thing that they can do is to not react themselves, to, to calm the situation down. To have the teen or the child— sit them down and have a conversation on— or you can definitely sit at a table and drag out a game that you play all the time, a deck of cards or something, and sit down and talk while you're doing something that you both enjoy, um, and getting— sometimes that brings out the emotion and the problem, and then the father can deal with it in a more relaxed atmosphere. And they don't have to get so down to the nitty-gritty. Just gradually work on completing the answer to the problems, the, the solution, and scheduling— like I said, scheduling a once-a-week check-in is a great way to do it. And if they're, if they're having— they're highly emotional, calming them down with just something that they enjoy and something that you enjoy, then you can get them off of the intense emotion and sit down and start doing something that you both enjoy, and you're just Talk about it and discuss it. And you might not get anything right away, but you just keep trying and you let them tell you when they are ready. They're not going to sit down and be able to open up right away with every emotion and every problem, but after a while you'll see them opening up and you'll see that the parent, the father, is much more comfortable being in the situation that is so highly emotional. And it's a daily or a weekly practice. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:18:24]: I mean, Daily is the things that they're supposed to be doing, and the parent can always be checking in. In the morning when you see each other for the first time, hey, how, how was yesterday? What are you going to do today? And that shows love and respect and concern, and, and the kids feel it. They know it. So it is a very hands-on, a very eye-opening and rewarding experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:49]: Well, Cheryl, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing everything you've shared today. If people want to find out more about your programs, where should They should Cheryl Rosenberg [00:18:58]: go to Cheryl, Cheryl, at D-R-O-S-E-N-B-E-R-G-I-O.com. And I have a website there and they can ask for consultation. It's a free consultation. And so I do that in order to start talking to them about where they need to start and what we need to start working with their child. And then I give them the supplies, the toolkit. Kit, and then I check in with them and we talk about that. I give them worksheets that they can use with their, their team. Um, it's really a nurturing experience to go through this and have everyone be able to feel comfortable and feel cared for, and it does everybody a lot of good. Cheryl Rosenberg [00:19:49]: And they'd be surprised, they'll be very surprised at the results that they get. And it usually— if it's not a, a real deep problem, then they'll see a turnaround in as little as 2 weeks. So it's a great way to try to get the family back together, talking, communication, hands-on. It brings everybody to that point and we're all working to get the resolution. And so no one feels left out and everyone will benefit. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]: Now, I always finish my interviews with what I like to call the Dad Connection 6, and usually I ask dads these questions, but when I have daughters on, I ask them some similar questions. So, quick questions for you. What's one word that describes your relationship with your own father? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:20:37]: Loving. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:38]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:20:42]: Um, before my father passed away, he said to me, "What did I teach you?" And I said, "You taught me to do the best at anything that I tried." And that's my best from my dad. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]: Now, you mentioned what your day would look like before, but what's one activity you and your dad loved doing together? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:20:59]: Painting. I mean, he was painting walls. That's entirely different. From what I did, but he taught me techniques and just care of the equipment. I was so much further ahead than a lot of other people because I spent those hours with him just painting walls and cleaning brushes and preventing any paint splashes or paint on the floor, paint on the woodwork, just everything, because he was so meticulous. And I learned that too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:26]: And as we finish up today, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Cheryl Rosenberg [00:21:34]: I would say that being there, loving them, guiding them with your knowledge, giving them their space and allowing them to speak to the work that you're all accomplishing, trying to accomplish, working on, and just be open and be honest. And the two of you will always be in sync if you start when they're an early age. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:00]: Cheryl, thank you so much for being here and for the incredible work that you're doing with families. And dads, if there's one thing I hope that you take away from this conversation, it's this: it's that your daughter's big emotions aren't a rejection of you. They're often an invitation, an invitation to slow down, to listen, to regulate yourself first, to create safety. Connection doesn't come from fixing, it comes from presence. And sometimes the strongest thing that you can do as a father is simply stay steady when— stay steady when the waves get big. If today's conversation resonated with you, I encourage you to learn more about Cheryl's Healing Artfully program and the tools that she shares with families. And I'll make sure that there's links in the notes today. Until next time, keep showing up, keep listening, and keep building that intentional connection with your daughter. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:51]: It matters more than you know. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:53]: That's a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, Being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:23:23]: We're all in the same boat. And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen. Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5—where we equip you with short, powerful tools to build deeper, lasting connections with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today's topic might just be one of the most important in your parenting journey: Teaching your daughter that vulnerability is strength. In a world that often tells our girls to "be tough," "don't cry," or "keep it together," it's crucial that she hears a different message from you—the man she looks to for emotional guidance. She needs to know that it's okay to feel, to struggle, to ask for help. And that doing so isn't weakness—it's courage. Let's explore how to model that kind of emotional strength in everyday life. Why Vulnerability Matters Vulnerability is the foundation of emotional intelligence, resilience, and healthy relationships. When your daughter understands that expressing her emotions is safe and strong, she learns: That she doesn't have to hide who she is That connection is built through honesty, not perfection That her emotions are valid—not something to be ashamed of And here's the key: she'll believe it when she sees it in you. 3 Ways to Model and Teach Vulnerability 1. Show Her What Vulnerability Looks Like in You One of the most powerful lessons you can give your daughter is letting her see that you have emotions too. That doesn't mean breaking down in every moment—but it does mean saying: "I've had a really hard day, and I'm feeling overwhelmed." "I messed up earlier, and I feel disappointed in myself." "I don't have all the answers, but I'm here and willing to listen." This shows her that strength isn't about having it all together. It's about being real—and still showing up. 2. Create a Safe Space for Her Emotions If your daughter opens up to you—whether it's about a rough day, anxiety, heartbreak, or self-doubt—resist the urge to fix it right away. First, validate her. Try this: "That sounds really hard. I'm glad you told me." "It's okay to feel that way. I've felt that too." "You don't have to go through this alone." She'll remember not just what you said, but how you made her feel—safe, seen, and loved. 3. Celebrate Emotional Courage If your daughter opens up about something vulnerable—affirm that bravery. "I know that wasn't easy to talk about, but it means a lot that you did." "You were really strong for speaking up." "Being honest about how you feel takes guts—and I'm proud of you." This rewires her thinking: Vulnerability isn't weakness—it's powerful. And it reinforces that being emotionally open is something to be proud of, not something to hide. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Open up about something small but real today—something that lets your daughter see your heart. It could be: "I'm nervous about this big meeting at work tomorrow." "I've been feeling a little off today, and I'm not sure why." "I'm really proud of how you handled that earlier. It reminded me how I wish I'd done the same at your age." Even one vulnerable moment builds trust. And it opens the door for her to be vulnerable too. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. Remember—when you show your daughter that vulnerability is strength, you're giving her permission to live honestly, love fully, and connect deeply. And that's one of the greatest gifts a father can give. Until next time—keep showing up, keep opening up, and keep building that foundation of trust that lasts a lifetime. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Building a strong, meaningful relationship with your daughter is a journey—one filled with ups and downs, learning curves, and rewarding moments. On a recent episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with teen mental health specialist and author Sophia Vale Galano to explore this crucial bond, especially during the challenging teenage years. The episode kicks off with Dr. Christopher Lewis and Sophia Vale Galano reflecting on their own relationships with their fathers. Sophia shares how her dad's ability to truly listen and validate her feelings stood out as a pivotal part of her upbringing. As she recalls, even during rough patches or adolescent turmoil, her dad's nurturing, present, and non-judgmental approach cultivated a sense of safety and trust—a lesson that still shapes her adult life and the way she parents her own child. A major theme explored is the importance of active listening over "fixing" when it comes to supporting anxious teens. Sophia pulls from her book Calming Teenage Anxiety and explains that while it's natural for dads (and all parents) to want to solve problems, the real magic happens when parents simply listen. Reflecting on both her personal experience and her professional expertise, she emphasizes that daughters don't always want solutions—they want support, validation, and someone in their corner. Another core topic in the conversation is the challenge posed by today's comparison culture and social media. Rather than restricting or policing teens, Sophia urges dads to engage in open conversations, seek to understand their daughter's experience with digital platforms, and help them build healthy self-worth amidst outside influences. The podcast also addresses the pressure teens feel to "succeed," encouraging dads to balance ambition with empathy. It's all about collaborating with teens, understanding their interests, and making sure encouragement doesn't accidentally become overwhelming pressure. The episode closes with practical advice: It's never too late to repair and grow your relationship with your daughter. Vulnerability, communication, and a willingness to meet your teen where they are can make all the difference. Whether you're a seasoned dad or just starting the journey, this episode is filled with wisdom, warmth, and actionable strategies. Tune in for real stories and expert insights that will leave you feeling inspired and better equipped to connect with your daughter. Listen now to the full episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" and start building the relationship your daughter needs today! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there, it's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, a great opportunity to be able to work on building those strong relationships with our own daughters. And I love that because every week I love being able to walk with you on this journey. I can't say I am an expert. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: I try my best. I have two daughters myself, as you know, but all of us can learn and all of us can be better fathers in the end. And that's why every week I love coming back to be able to, to walk on this journey with you and to be able to have these conversations that we have every week. And that's why I bring you different people with different experiences that can share those experiences with you to help you to to prepare you and to provide you with some tools for your own toolbox to help you be the dad that you want to be. This week, I am really excited to be able to have Sophia Vale Galano with us. And Sophia is a licensed clinical social worker and teen mental health specialist and the author of a book called Calming Teenage Anxiety. And for any of you that have teens, you know that anxiety comes with it. So it is important to know how to manage that, but also to kind of ride the wave as you're going through those teenage years and to be able to support your daughters in many different ways, because Sophia's work focuses on helping parents like you and I better understand what anxiety really looks like in today's teenagers, and more importantly, how to show up in ways that truly help. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]: One of the things I really liked in reading through the book myself, I loved the fact that I saw a lot of real-life stories, practical tools, and powerful reflection exercises that you can go through to help you to be more attuned to what your kids are going through. Because Sophia is, is guiding you as the reader to build a calmer, more connected relationship with your teen, not by fixing them, but by walking alongside them with empathy, awareness, and confidence. Her message is one that for me, and I think from you too, you're gonna find that it's a message you need to hear. And it's that your presence, your listening, and your emotional modeling matter more than you think. So I'm really excited to have Sophia here today to be able to talk to her and to have her as a guest on the show. Sophia, thanks so much for being here. Sophia Vale Galano [00:03:07]: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and I appreciate the lovely introduction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:12]: I really appreciate you being here. And I always start these interviews with an opportunity to delve a little bit deeper into your own relationship with your dad. So I guess to start off, tell me a little bit about your dad. And what's one thing that your dad did that made you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter? Endia Crabtree [00:03:30]: I so appreciate that question. I'm really excited to chat about this because full transparency, I really do feel very fortunate because I've had a really positive relationship with my dad. Of course, there have been bumps. Nothing's perfect, but overall my dad and I have always been very close. I grew up in a bit of an unconventional family structure where my mom went and worked in an office. She ran a major film company. She traveled a lot, and my dad was at home with me from ages 5 and up. So really, I feel fortunate in the sense that, you know, A, I got to spend a lot of time with my dad, which I feel that a lot of people don't have. Endia Crabtree [00:04:08]: And also, I felt very heard and seen by my dad. I feel that my dad did an amazing job at really listening to me and validating me throughout the years. I have such distinct memories of being a teenager and coming back from high school, grabbing a snack, and, you know, going into the room and chatting with him about my day, talking to him about what happened with friend drama, boy drama, things that most people don't speak with their dad about when they're age 16, you know, particularly a, you know, 15, 16-year-old girl. And I feel my dad, I remember kind of around age 12 or so when I was in 7th grade. And, you know, my dad talks to me about this now, you know, since, you know, I'm an adult now, my dad's an adult. And he always jokes that he had this kind of, you know, revelation when I was age 12 that, oh, my daughter, even though she's 12, is starting to have more needs as an adult, as a, a woman versus a girl. She doesn't want to be fixed. She doesn't want to be told what to do. Endia Crabtree [00:05:08]: She wants to be listened to. She wants to be validated. And I think it's really eye-opening for him because I was so young, but it really— he noticed a shift, and honestly, I noticed a shift. And that's something that honestly still, still happens. I still call my dad when I've had a rough day, and I'm just like, ugh, I just need to vent, or I just, I just need to talk this out. And he'll hear me out, you know, and he'll listen to me, and then he will say, what can I do to support, or what can I do to help? He'll ask me those questions. But my dad, again, I'm so fortunate because my dad really, really does a fantastic job of listening to me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:43]: So let's delve a little bit into that because what do you think it was? And maybe you've had these conversations with your dad about this, but what allowed for your father to be able to— I'm going to say flip the script because a lot of times a lot of dads don't have that innate ability to as you said, listen, to connect, and to be able to build those strong relationships. And it seems like your dad was able to do that from an— from early on. So what was it about your dad or what allowed for him to bring that to the relationship from early on? Endia Crabtree [00:06:14]: Yes. Well, I do think that my dad was very present with me. I mean, obviously, you know, when he was there with me, we were talking, of course, he's present, engaged in the conversation. But, you know, I had so much interaction with my dad on the day-to-day. So I think that really helped because he really got a sense of, you know, how I operate. And he knew me really, really well. Um, but it really— we talk about this, my dad and I kind of laugh about it now— that when I was 12, I moved to America from England. I know it's hard to believe with my accent, but I had a really tough time as a 12-year-old adjusting to, you know, life in Los Angeles in 7th grade. Endia Crabtree [00:06:48]: You know, it was really, really tough. And I remember being really unhappy, and I remember being kind of the first time where, when we first moved back, my dad and I were kind of butting heads a little bit. Nothing over the top, but I remember us just not seeing eye to eye. And I'm not sure, you know, kind of what led him to this realization, if there was some sort of moment where he did kind of meet me where I was at in terms of listening and validating me and hearing me, and then it was kind of a wake-up call for him to say, wait, this actually works more than kind of telling her what to do. But something clicked, and that's what he always kind of jokes about, that he was like, I had this realization at 12 years old that I have to start treating you like a young woman. And not to stereotype, but most women like feeling validated and they like feeling heard and they like feeling listened to versus given these kind of solutions or kind of minimizing what they're going through. Again, not to stereotype, this is a, a very broad overview, but I think it was a bit of a shift for him. And I work with parents all the time about learning to treat their teenagers a little bit more like a young adult versus a kid, you know, and it's tough, that transition, I think, for my dad because I wasn't even a teenager. Endia Crabtree [00:07:58]: Yeah, I was 12. But the thing that's really cool about my dad, and I really appreciate this, is my dad, I know, always wants to improve, and he wants to grow, and he wants to evolve, you know, as a person and also with his parenting. And that's why I'm so grateful for your show and for your listeners. I appreciate the dads out there that are really trying to improve the relationship with their children, particularly their daughters, and I see that too now as an adult, how much my dad was really trying to do that. And it doesn't go unrecognized, you know, maybe as a 12-year-old, I wasn't sitting down and saying, "Dad, I'm so appreciative of your emotional development and willingness to meet me where I'm at." I see it now as a 36-year-old, but I have a lot of credit for my dad. And I really do think that helped me see him as a very safe person that I could go to in high school. And my dad also wasn't judgy as well. I think a lot of dads, a lot of parents are very protective over their children. Endia Crabtree [00:08:56]: And that can come across as sometimes too teenager, a bit of judgment, or, you know, they're trying to control me. Whereas my dad was very much, you know, inquisitive and curious of— I want to hear more, tell me about that, you know, let's talk about it— versus, well, just don't hang out with that person, or that person's bad news, forget it. It was more, tell me about it, what did that feel like? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:18]: How would you say that your relationship with your your dad influences the way in which you navigate life, relationships, or challenges today? Endia Crabtree [00:09:28]: So much, and in a positive sense. I mean, I think there's a variety of different factors here. I mean, first of all, seeing that my dad isn't perfect, neither am I, and that we still love and care about each other and we can navigate that when there is turmoil or conflict, which is destined to happen with anyone, you know. And also again, just seeing that, eh, as a daughter that I can have really positive relationships with men, you know, I, I think that's something that I have felt for most of my life, which I think also is quite unique as a female, is feeling very comfortable with men. Even when I was younger, you know, when I was doing therapy, I didn't have an issue seeing male therapists. So I feel— I have a lot of male friends, I have a really great relationship with my husband. I feel that there's safety and comfort with men, and I do think that my dad laid the foundation for that. And my dad has a very nurturing energy to him. Endia Crabtree [00:10:21]: My dad is a strong man. He's strong, but he's nurturing too. And I can feel that as well. I have a daughter and my hope is that my daughter will have a similar relationship with her dad too. I feel again, very fortunate with that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:37]: Now, I guess one thing that I think about— you, you've mentioned a lot of really positive things that have happened throughout your life that your dad has really helped you to maneuver through and to be able to become who you are today. And you said, Nobody's perfect. Your dad's not perfect. You're not perfect. None of us are. What are— what are some things that you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship? Endia Crabtree [00:10:58]: I feel— and this is where it's tricky, you know, and I talk a lot about this in my book, which is kind of finding this balance of relating while still adhering to boundaries— is, I guess, understanding that my dad is still a human being. When I think when I was younger too, my parents got divorced when I was, um, 19. So, you know, I still kind of the later later end of being a teenager. And that was quite a challenging time for my relationship with my dad because there was this major shift in our family structure. And I think at that time, what I feel would have been helpful for me, you know, and I've shared this with my dad, but, you know, is really understanding. And maybe it would help to have him have verbalized this. We've talked about it, of, you know, seeing him as a human being who's still working on himself and maybe being more vulnerable with me. Maybe that's what it is, is allowing himself to be vulnerable. Endia Crabtree [00:11:53]: While still, again, of course, having boundaries. And again, I think it's tricky here because we want to be mindful of, you know, parental roles. We don't want it to shift that, you know, the teenager, you know, even an older teenager, the 19-year-old who's technically an adult but still a teenager, becomes the parent, but starting to see the parent as a human being who's still going through their own journey and their own process. And I think that was very jarring for me as a 19-year-old, a bit of a wake-up call for me to see, oh wait, my parents are not not slap this label, you know, it's an extreme label, but like still quote unquote flawed in many ways, aren't we all? And I think, you know, having conversations with my dad about his challenges and having more vulnerability there, I think would have been helpful in a nurturing and compassionate manner. But again, it's, it's not, you know, easy. And I credit so many parents for tackling these issues because it's not black and white. It's tricky. And I think just, again, I give everyone so much, so much credit for wanting to try. Endia Crabtree [00:12:55]: And I think that's all that Matters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:57]: Now, I— you mentioned your book and you are the author of Calming Teenage Anxiety. And as an author myself, I know that there's a lot of time, passion, blood, sweat, and tears that go into being able to put something out into the world. So tell me that origin story of the book and what made you decide that you wanted to put all of that time, blood, sweat, and tears into putting this out into the world? Endia Crabtree [00:13:19]: Yes. Well, first of all, well said, that is incredibly accurate. The blood, sweat, and tears, you know, blessing the curse in many ways. But there were a variety of different factors, you know, that kind of went behind the motivation of writing this book. So the first was, A, feeling very inspired. There was such a need for guidance in this area. So, you know, I talk about this in the introduction of my book is, you know, when I was kind of early on in my career, what I would do is I would go and provide educational talks at different schools or lectures, and I would pick a different topic kind of depending on the needs of the school and the students. So I remember doing one on teen substance use, on vaping, on depression, you know, a variety of different topics, but I really remember giving a talk on teen anxiety and just being so blown away by the amount of guidance that was wanted. Endia Crabtree [00:14:07]: And this— I remember the room just being completely packed. I remember parents standing alongside the walls because all the chairs were filled and really wanting very concrete tools. So I think there's a lot of conversations out there right now of, okay, teen anxiety is on the rise. It's a problem, but what do we do with that? So really, I left that talk and I said, okay, what if there was a book that doesn't just talk about the problem, but actually talks about what to say and what not to say and what questions to ask and what questions not to ask and how to prevent restriction while still adhering to boundaries or what communication tools are success or what are some kind of typical scenarios. You might see, how do you differentiate between what's normal versus concerning? So kind of should provide a general sort of overview or blueprint here, which kind of leads to the next factor that kind of led me to writing the book is I said to myself, let's see what comes out. Let's like give it a go, let's start writing. And I know it might sound a bit cheesy, but it kind of just poured out very naturally. And I really felt like there was such a need. Endia Crabtree [00:15:11]: And my hope was that even if this helps one person, it's successful. When not everyone has the resources the time to go to therapy or study this for years and years, or, you know, become a psychologist themselves. My hope was for any adult to pick this up, whether they dropped out of high school, whether they have a PhD, and they can start using it immediately. So to be very accessible and very approachable. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]: You know, a lot of dads see anxiety in their daughters but aren't sure what they're looking at. From your experience, how does teen anxiety often show up differently than parents expect? Endia Crabtree [00:15:49]: So first of all, I always like to remind adults, and it might sound like a bit of a no-brainer but important to remember, that teenagers are not expert communicators, first of all. So they're going to communicate in a way that's very, very different than adults might communicate. So, you know, we kind of joke about this, and I was kind of joking before, that a teen is not going to sit down with their parent and say, Mom, Dad, I'm really struggling emotionally. I'd benefit from some coping skills and emotional regulation technique. Let's come up with some solutions together to support my mental health. Probably not. I haven't met a teen that does that. Maybe they're out there. Endia Crabtree [00:16:20]: What it's gonna look like instead is, say, a teen isolating, a teen being avoidant, a teen maybe even seeming irritable, hostile, even at times combative. It might not seem how anxiety would look for an adult. So it's important to remember that. And I remind parents too that it's important to assess how often a teen is struggling, and to what extent. So I give this example where let's say a teenager is nervous before a math test. So let's say they're kind of spiraling, they're feeling really panicky about the test, they don't want to go to school, they're feeling really kind of moody about it, but they manage to go to school, they take the test, they go on with their day, they attend their extracurriculars, they complete their assignments. Okay, we're not gonna overlook that, but we're gonna take a different approach than the teenager that refuses to go to school. The teenager that is so preoccupied with the anxiety for this test that they can't complete their other assignments, that they need to drop out of their extracurricular activities, that they're becoming avoidant socially. Endia Crabtree [00:17:26]: We're going to take a very different approach, you know. Or what if the teenager has a panic attack before the exam or throws up before the exam? That's an indicator that this is more severe than sort of your standard teenage behavior. And with this said, we want to assess how often this is happening. So let's say that a teenager has that kind of quote-unquote extreme response and it happens once a year, are we gonna overlook it? Absolutely not. But again, we're gonna take a different approach if this happens once a week, multiple times a month, multiple times a week. Very, very different stance here, but it does require very mindful observation of the teen. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:02]: You know, one of the things that you talked about earlier about your own father was he was a good active listener, and in your book you talk about the importance of active listening as well. The challenge, of course, is that a lot of Dads feel like they are natural fixers. So for dads who are those natural fixers, what does listening to an anxious daughter look like in real life and what should they avoid doing? Endia Crabtree [00:18:27]: So I also want to preface that it so goes against our instincts as parents to not fix. You know, we see our child suffering and we want to alleviate the problem. We don't want to just sit there and wait for the slow, gradual change. So that is really understandable for the parents listening. If they're thinking to themselves, shoot, I do that all the time. If I completely messed up, No, you know, and a lot of my work with the teens is also helping the teen understand that the parent is coming from a good place and to have some empathy for the parent as well. What I will encourage the dads listening who are, are very prone to fixing is to actually remind themselves that active listening, validating, seeking to learn, understand, employ this kind of curious mindset is actually fixing in the long run. It's just a more subtle way of doing it. Endia Crabtree [00:19:17]: It. So what I would recommend avoiding— and I will say there are of course going to be emergency exceptions to this, this is a general overview— if a teen is suicidal, there's severe self-harm, substance use, we're going to take a different approach. We're going to intervene, we're going to fix. If a teen expresses that they're feeling anxious or overwhelmed, or the dad is noticing this behavior, instead of saying, well, why don't you go meditate, or have you gone take— go, go for a walk outside, While those are great solutions that do work, the teen feels not heard. And often what happens is the teen says, "Oh, you don't understand me, you don't get it." And the dad or even the mom too, you know, it's like, well, what just happened? Now my teen's even, you know, kind of farther away and I actually was coming from a really positive place. Instead, what the parent can say is, "I would love to hear a little bit more about that. What is that like for you? How do you feel about sharing about this?" So really leaning on these open-ended questions, avoiding, first of all, closed kind of yes or no question, of course, unless an emergency, and really seeking to learn more, speaking with the teen versus just providing some type of solution for the teen. And, and with that being said, you know, and obviously this is quite complex, I go into significant detail about this in the book, but it can be helpful to, to have these conversations in a setting that might feel different for an adult. Endia Crabtree [00:20:40]: It might feel maybe a little informal, a little too casual, but it's really important for the teen to feel that this is coming up organically. So when you're driving, in the car, walking the dog together— oftentimes the teen is very closed off when the parent is sitting across from the table at the dining room table saying, okay, let's talk about your anxiety. They're going to feel very put on the spot and very caught off guard. So it's about kind of modifying how we have the conversations, where we have the conversation, and remembering that actually active listening validating, learning more is ultimately fixing and helping. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:16]: You know, one of the other things that you talk about in the book is you describe how today's teens are growing up in a comparison culture shaped by social media. Any of us that have kids that are above the age of 10 know the power of social media and know how much it can impact our kids as well. How can dads help their daughters build self-worth when the world keeps telling them Endia Crabtree [00:21:39]: that they're not These are such amazing questions, and I'm so grateful that you're asking me this, because oftentimes what happens is people instead take kind of a more restrictive approach of like, okay, you know, I'm protective over my child, I'm not going to let them use social media, and it kind of backfires again, unless an emergency. So instead, it's actually about having these conversations with the teen of seeking to understand what they feel like when they use social media, what comes up for them when they look at certain pages, you know, have they noticed any kind of parallels emotionally, do they feel more anxious when they're on social media, A lot of teens, you know, and, and it's a bit of a controversial take, you know, and I'm not advocating for social media, but some teens will say, you know, actually it's really helpful for me to follow these certain pages that actually support mental health or support my hobbies, or it's helpful for me to go on here. I'm not saying that's the solution, but it's important to talk with the teen about their feelings with social media. And of course, you know, we wanna set boundaries with social media. You know, again, go into detail about what that can look like, whether it's, you know, unfollowing certain pages, muting certain people, integrating more positive pages into a teen's social media presence. But it's really about talking with the teen here, seeking to learn. And oftentimes parents even coming from this stance of, I didn't grow up in this world. What is it like for you? You know, I'd love to learn more. Endia Crabtree [00:23:04]: I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. And this goes back to the, again, unless an emergency, as challenging it is not to to restrict or prohibit a teen's access to social media because that really does not help build self-esteem. If anything, that's teaching the teen that you don't trust them to use social media in a good way or that you can trust your teen to kind of learn from their mistakes, uh, foster resilience. Instead, it's actually teaching the teen that they're still like a kid and, you know, they need kind of policing or monitoring here. So it's a bit of, again, relearning in terms of parenting a teenager, you know, that, okay, I wanna give them the skills so that they feel comfortable using this as they emerge into adulthood, that when they turn 18, they're out of the house, they're in the workforce, they're at school, at college, that they are equipped to deal with the pressures of social media and they're not completely caught off guard. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]: Many fathers push their daughters to succeed because they want opportunities for them, but you warn in your book that that can overload and increase anxiety. So how can dads How do you help dads tell the difference between healthy encouragement and harmful pressure? Endia Crabtree [00:24:17]: And again, it's not black and white. So it's also okay if, you know, let's say parents listening again are saying to themselves, oh no, maybe I pushed too hard. Is that a lost cause? No, not at all. This is where it goes back to that collaborating and communicating with the team and finding that balance. You know, I think you hit the nail on the head too, is oftentimes, you know, parents really believe that they're equipping their teen for success. And also, you know, a lot of times parents will— and again, it comes from a really good place— is they say, let me get my teen involved in X, Y, and Z because that's going to help them, you know, not be stuck on their phone and isolate in their room, and that's kind of the key to help them not be anxious when in reality it overwhelms them or overloads them. So we want to find the balance. We want to make sure they have their leisure time, their time to relax, their time to unwind, while also doing things that, you know, they enjoy as well. Endia Crabtree [00:25:09]: And talk with your teen A, how they feel about these activities, and also if it's something that they want to do. Are they interested? Are they passionate about it? I mean, most teens are going to feel more excited about hanging out with their friends, you know, versus, you know, getting an internship somewhere. But it's still important to make sure it's something that they want to do. It's not something that they feel completely forced into or that they're going to be— I don't even wanna say punished, but more— but judged or disappoint their parents if they don't do it. Again, it's collaborating with the teen, it's communicating communicating with the teen. Those, those words are going to come up again and again because they could be applied to all areas here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:48]: One final thing that I want to ask you about the book is if a dad is listening today and he feels like he's already missed signs of anxiety, what would you want him to know about repairing connection and becoming a safe person now? Endia Crabtree [00:26:03]: First of all, it's not too late. I do want to say that, that it's never ever a lost cause and it's never too late. So even if dad, let's say, says, I have done absolutely everything wrong. I haven't listened. I haven't asked the open-ended questions. I fix it all. It's okay. And this actually kind of circles back to your earlier question about my dad, which is, A, it's okay to share with your teen that you're a human being and you're still learning, that, hey, I recognize maybe some of my own limitations here and I want to better help you. Endia Crabtree [00:26:34]: How can I be there for you? How can I support you? Again, we want to adhere to appropriate boundaries. You know, I wouldn't suggest going to the teenager and sobbing and screaming that you've done anything wrong and have the team parent or comfort you, but more being vulnerable that I have— I acknowledge that maybe I haven't got this the most effective way, and I want to make a change here. And what would feel best for you? How can we work together? I want you to know that I'm here for you. I love you. I support you. And if you feel that you want me to listen more, if you want me to support you in that way, I'm here for you. If you want me to provide solutions, I've got you. It's really meeting the team where they're at. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:16]: So we always finish our interviews with what I like to call the Dad Connection Six. And these are six more questions that I usually ask dads, but I've got you here. So I'm gonna ask you a little bit of a tweak. Endia Crabtree [00:27:26]: That's cool. Mix it up. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: So what's one word that describes your relationship with your dad? Endia Crabtree [00:27:33]: Loving. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:33]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Endia Crabtree [00:27:37]: I guess I would say— and I'm not quoting this directly, but my dad has always encouraged me to try new things. And know that it's okay if it doesn't work out. That my dad is very much, "Go for it. Try it out. Like, why not?" So I think that has been really helpful in terms of kind of fostering my independence. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:58]: What's one activity you and your dad love doing together? Endia Crabtree [00:28:01]: Well, so that's changed over the years for sure. I mean, now we love gardening together. It's funny, I feel when I was younger as a teenager, we would talk a lot about music and bands together, so we would do that. I mean, I'm giving a lot of different activities. Let's say stick to adulthood. We like to garden and we like to hike. So spend time in nature and talk about art and music. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]: Now, you— as a mother yourself and as a mother to a daughter, if you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Endia Crabtree [00:28:29]: I would say that it's okay to make mistake. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:32]: And what's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a mother? Endia Crabtree [00:28:37]: You cannot control what goes on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:39]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters. Endia Crabtree [00:28:47]: Even if your daughter doesn't express it, your daughter is going to appreciate the role that you play in their life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:52]: Well, Sophia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here. If people want to find out more about you and the book, where should they go? Endia Crabtree [00:28:58]: Yes, thank you so much for having me. So you can visit my website, www.sophiagallano.com. Um, you can follow me on Instagram, Sophia Vale underscore Gallano. My book is available Penguin Random House, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, independent bookstores. You can also reach out to me directly if, you know, you're having a hard time finding it or you want a signed copy. I can do that too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:20]: Well, again, Sophia, thank you so much, not only for being here today, for sharing your own story with your own father, but also for putting this book out into the world. It is a challenging time at this point for our kids as they maneuver through those teenage years. And for all of us as parents, we always are going to have that anxiety that'll rear its head within our kids, and we have to know ways to be able to do that, and this book does just that. So I truly appreciate you sharing not only thoughts for us to consider today, but also for putting this book out into the world as a tool, as a resource for us to be able to be those parents that we want to become. Endia Crabtree [00:29:55]: Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for everyone listening. I appreciate the dads out there that are seeking to become even better parents and support their teens. So thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:05]: That's a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Sophia Vale Galano [00:30:36]: We're all in the same boat. And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, 'cause those kids are growing fast. The time Time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, your five-minute dose of practical wisdom to help you grow closer to your daughter—one intentional moment at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're diving into one of the most powerful, yet often overlooked, tools in your parenting toolbox: Validating your daughter's emotions—even when you don't fully understand them. Let's be real—sometimes your daughter's reactions might feel dramatic, confusing, or even over-the-top. Maybe she's crying about a lost hair clip. Maybe she's devastated over a friendship shift that seems minor to you. But here's the truth: What matters to her deserves your respect—because what you validate becomes the bridge to deeper connection. Let's explore why that validation matters, and how you can start doing it today—even when you don't get it. Why Emotional Validation Matters Your daughter's emotional world is real—even if it doesn't make sense to you. When you validate her feelings, you're sending these messages: "Your emotions are real and important." "I'm not here to fix you—I'm here to understand you." "You're not alone in this." And that? That builds trust. It builds confidence. And it helps her learn how to process emotions in healthy ways, instead of stuffing them down or feeling ashamed of them. 3 Ways to Validate Her Emotions—Even If You Don't Understand Them 1. Listen First. Don't Problem-Solve. When your daughter shares something emotional, your instinct might be to offer advice, solutions, or logic. But before you go there—pause and listen. Try this: "That sounds really frustrating." "Wow, I can tell that really got to you." "Tell me more about what happened." She doesn't need a fix. She needs a safe place to feel without being judged. 2. Reflect What You Hear—Not What You Think Even if you don't fully get why something upset her, you can still reflect it back with empathy. Examples: "It sounds like you felt left out when that happened." "You were really excited about that, and it didn't go how you hoped. That's disappointing." "It makes sense that you'd feel upset about that." You're not saying her feelings are right or wrong—you're just showing her they're valid. That builds emotional safety. 3. Resist the Urge to Minimize or Compare It's easy to say: "It's not that big of a deal." "When I was your age, I had it worse." "You're overreacting." Even if you mean well, those phrases teach her that her emotions aren't worth sharing. Instead, focus on connection, not correction. Try this instead: "I may not fully understand it, but I can see that this matters to you—and that's enough for me to care about it too." Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: The next time your daughter shares something emotional—even if it feels small to you—validate it. You can say: "I see how much this is affecting you." "Thanks for trusting me with that." "I may not totally get it, but I'm here with you in it." Even a single validating response can shift how safe she feels with you. And when she feels safe, she keeps the conversation going. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. Remember—your daughter isn't looking for perfect words. She's looking for presence. For empathy. For someone who says, "Even when I don't understand exactly what you're feeling—I'm here, and I care." Until next time—keep showing up, keep listening with your heart, and keep reminding her that her emotions are safe with you. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome back to another episode of Dad Connections in 5—your five-minute guide to building strong, lasting relationships with your daughter, one intentional moment at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about something that might not always be visible—but it's incredibly powerful: Helping your daughter develop a positive inner voice. That little voice in her head—the one that speaks when no one else is around—can either be her biggest encourager or her harshest critic. And believe it or not, you play a huge role in shaping that voice. Let's talk about how to guide it, strengthen it, and make sure she learns to speak to herself with the same kindness and belief you already have in her. Why Her Inner Voice Matters Your daughter's inner voice helps shape: How she views herself How she handles mistakes How she builds confidence How she stands up for herself and others It becomes her compass when you're not there. The way you talk to her today can become the way she talks to herself tomorrow. 3 Ways to Help Her Build a Positive Inner Voice 1. Praise Effort, Not Just Outcome When she hears: "You're so smart!" She might learn to fear failure. But when she hears: "You worked hard on that—look how far you've come!" She learns to value growth over perfection. This teaches her that her worth isn't tied to performance—it's tied to her perseverance and heart. 2. Let Her Hear You Talk to Yourself Kindly Modeling matters. If you constantly say things like, "Ugh, I'm so stupid." "I messed everything up again," She's listening—even if you think she's not. Instead, try: "That didn't go the way I wanted, but I'll figure it out." "I made a mistake, but I'm learning." Your self-talk teaches her that mistakes aren't the end—they're just part of the journey. 3. Reframe Negative Thoughts With Her When she says:  "I'm terrible at this," Instead of dismissing it or disagreeing outright, say: "That sounds like a tough moment. Want to talk about why you feel that way?" Then gently guide her to reframe it: "It's okay to struggle. That doesn't make you bad at it—it makes you human." "You're learning, and that takes time. You've got this." Over time, she'll learn to talk to herself with the same compassion. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Catch her doing something well today—and name the effort behind it. Try: "You stuck with that even when it was hard. That's amazing." "I love how you kept going even when it didn't work at first." "You showed real kindness today—did you notice that?" And if she shares a negative thought, gently ask: "What would you say to a friend who felt that way?" Then encourage her to say it to herself. That's it for today's  Dad Connections in 5. Remember—your daughter's inner voice is being built every day. With your encouragement, your modeling, and your love, that voice can become one that lifts her up for life. Until next time—keep affirming, keep modeling grace, and keep helping her become her own best supporter. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5—your quick, meaningful guide to deepening your bond with your daughter, five minutes at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today's topic is one that can truly shape how your daughter sees the world—and herself: How to teach gratitude and a positive outlook on life. Now, let's be clear—this isn't about toxic positivity or pretending life is always great. It's about helping your daughter learn to look for the good, appreciate the small things, and build resilience in the face of challenges. Gratitude is more than a feeling—it's a mindset. And it's one of the most valuable gifts you can give her. Why Gratitude Matters Practicing gratitude has been linked to: Increased happiness Better relationships Lower stress and anxiety Greater optimism and resilience When your daughter learns to notice what's good in her life—even in tough seasons—she builds emotional strength. And when she learns to do it with you, that strength is rooted in love and trust. 3 Practical Ways to Teach Gratitude and Positivity 1. Model It Every Day Your daughter learns more from what you do than what you say. If she hears you regularly expressing appreciation—out loud—it becomes part of her normal. Try this: "I'm really grateful we had time to hang out today." "That sunset was amazing—what a gift." "Work was stressful, but I'm thankful I get to provide for us." This helps her see that even when things are hard, there's always something to be thankful for. 2. Start a Simple Gratitude Ritual Together Keep it low-pressure and age-appropriate. A few ideas: A nightly "What was one good thing today?" check-in before bed A shared gratitude jar where you each drop in a note weekly A weekly "thankful walk" where you both take turns naming what you're grateful for These rituals build emotional awareness and shift her focus toward the positive—without ignoring the real stuff. 3. Reframe Challenges With Her When life gets tough—and it will—help her find meaning or growth in the experience. Not to sugarcoat it, but to give her tools. Examples: "I know you were disappointed about the test, but I'm proud of how you kept going." "That situation hurt—but look at the way you spoke up. That took courage." "Even though this didn't go the way we hoped, what's one thing we can learn from it?" This teaches her that gratitude and positivity aren't about pretending—it's about choosing where to focus her energy. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Start a gratitude moment today with your daughter. Ask her one simple question: "What's something that made you smile today?" And then share your answer too. That's it. One honest, positive moment shared between the two of you. It might seem small—but it opens the door to a lifelong habit. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. Remember, when you help your daughter notice what's good in her world, even in the middle of the mess, you're helping her build a mindset that will carry her through life. Until next time—keep showing up, keep practicing gratitude, and keep helping your daughter see the beauty in her everyday. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5, where we take just five minutes to explore simple but powerful ways to strengthen the bond between you and your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're getting to the heart of what every child needs, but especially every daughter: To know she is loved—completely and unconditionally. That means not for her grades. Not for her behavior. Not for her performance, her personality, or her choices. But simply because she's your daughter. And that kind of love? It becomes the foundation for her self-worth, her resilience, and her ability to love herself and others well. Let's talk about how to make sure she knows that—deep in her bones. Why Unconditional Love Matters A daughter who knows she is unconditionally loved: Feels emotionally secure Is more likely to take healthy risks and learn from failure Has stronger self-esteem and healthier relationships Comes back to you—even when she's messed up It's the difference between a girl who's constantly trying to earn love, and one who knows she already has it. 3 Everyday Ways to Show Unconditional Love 1. Separate Who She Is from What She Does It's so easy to praise outcomes—"You got an A!" "You scored a goal!"—and yes, those things deserve celebration. But she also needs to know her value isn't tied to her performance. Say things like: "I love you for who you are, not for what you do." "There's nothing you could do that would make me love you more—or less." "I'm proud of your effort, not just the result." Over time, these messages become her inner voice. 2. Stay Steady When She's Not at Her Best Unconditional love isn't about being okay with bad behavior—it's about loving through it. So when she's had a meltdown, or made a mistake, or disappointed you: Correct the behavior, but don't withdraw emotionally Remind her: "I didn't like what you did, but I still love you." Let her see that love isn't something she has to chase or earn This teaches her that mistakes are part of growth—not the end of love. 3. Say "I Love You"... Just Because Don't wait for special moments or achievements. Make "I love you" a normal, daily thing. Try saying it: Before school When you say goodnight When she walks in the room When she's quiet, or struggling, or simply just there Sometimes the most powerful "I love you" is the one that's not tied to anything at all. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Look your daughter in the eyes and tell her: "You don't have to do anything to earn my love. You already have it—all of it." Then back it up with a hug, a smile, or just your presence. That simple act might stick with her for life. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. Remember—your daughter will face a world that tries to measure her worth by looks, likes, grades, and achievements. But if she knows her dad sees her as enough, exactly as she is, she'll walk through that world a whole lot stronger. Until next time—keep showing up, keep speaking love, and keep building a foundation she'll never have to question. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

If you're a dad hoping to build a closer, more meaningful relationship with your daughter, you won't want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis invites educator, coach, mentor, and author Chad Mitchell to share stories and insights from his life as a father of two daughters (and six children total), as well as lessons from his new book, "Change Your Game." The Power of the Everyday Moment One of the central themes Chad Mitchell brings to the conversation is the importance of the "little things." As a father and now a grandfather, he reflects that the most meaningful moments with his daughters weren't grand gestures or planned events, but simple time spent together—talking, listening, and just being present. It's a reminder for all dads: you don't have to be perfect or extraordinary for your daughter. What matters most is showing up authentically, creating spaces for laughter, listening, and sharing life's ups and downs. Balancing Guidance and Independence Chad Mitchell is candid about his own journey learning how to guide his daughters while also giving them the independence to grow. He admits he was stricter with his first daughter, loosening up with experience. His key realization? Letting your children choose their own paths—whether in sports, music, or academics—helps them build confidence and resilience. He encourages dads to support their daughters' unique interests, learn from mistakes (their own and their kids'), and "choose your battles wisely." Raising Leaders, Not Just Followers A recurring lesson from Chad's book and the episode is that leadership isn't defined by age, popularity, or formal titles but by influence, kindness, integrity, and everyday choices. Dads play a unique role in helping daughters see themselves as leaders—right now, not just in the future—by labeling them as such and recognizing the ways they impact those around them. Connection Through Listening and Vulnerability Perhaps most powerful is the call for empathetic listening. Chad Mitchell believes that being fully present—with eye contact, without distractions—opens the door to trust and deeper connection. Sharing your own struggles and vulnerabilities, as appropriate, helps daughters realize they're not alone in facing life's challenges. If you want real stories, practical wisdom, and encouragement for your journey as a dad, listen to this episode. You'll leave inspired to engage more deeply, support your daughter's dreams, and grow together, one honest conversation at a time. Tune in and discover how you can truly connect with your daughter today! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships, those connections that we have with our own daughters, working to help to make them be the strongest that we want them to be, the strongest that they can be. And we do that by learning, by growing, by continuing to look beyond ourselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: And that's why every week, I love being able to have you here and being on this journey with me. Today on the dad and Daughter Connection, we're joined by someone who has dedicated his life to empowering young people to lead, to serve, and to believe that they matter. Chad Mitchell is a educator, a coach, an author, and mentor, and has a new book called Change youe Game. And it in this book, it really reminds us that leadership isn't about age or status or titles. It's about influence, kindness, integrity, and the everyday choices that we make. Chad has spent many years helping young people discover their voice and. And their courage. And today we're going to talk to him about being a dad himself, a father of six, but we're also going to talk to him about being a father of two daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]: But we're going to talk to him about this book, too, and gain a little bit more perspective about his own journey, but also some of the things that he's learned along the way in working with youth in this way. So really excited to have him here. Chad, thanks so much for being here today. Chad Mitchell [00:02:21]: Chris, thanks for having me. I'm super excited. The intro just gives me goosebumps. I'm great. I love. I love this subject matter. I love my daughters. I love young women, and it's going to be exciting time. Chad Mitchell [00:02:32]: Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here and to chat with you today and having two daughters, I know that your kids range in age from 17 to 35, so every child is a little bit different and your daughters came interspersed between the sons that you have as well. And I guess as you think about your two daughters, what are some of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made them so special? Chad Mitchell [00:03:01]: What are the most meaningful moments with my daughters? You know, it's interesting that I would think they're not if you. In the moment, they were just little things, Chris. They're not. I mean, there's probably a couple things like a daddy daughter dance that I would have taken my girls to when we lived in, in Chicago area, but I think a lot of them are just time together, listening, talking, smiling, and just doing really simple, seemingly mundane things. But as I get older and we have five grandchildren, all of them daughters, and I get to spend time with my daughters, being mothers now, it is the simple things. It's holding a baby, it's, you know, going to the store with them. It's just really just that relationship. And there are so many little things that go into having a good relationship. Chad Mitchell [00:03:51]: And I would say just those moments of us together not doing anything fancy or crazy, but just enjoying each other and being each other's company and sharing hard things, sharing sad things, sharing fun times and sharing silly dad jokes which they grown at still. But that's all right. That comes with the territory. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:08]: It does come with the territory. I'm not good at telling dad jokes. And when I say something that I probably didn't mean to be a dad joke, I do get the groans too. So I completely understand that now. I know both of your daughters are grown and they're adults, but as you think back to them growing up and you think back to the things that you did to help them become the women that they are today, how did you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into the women that they did become? Chad Mitchell [00:04:39]: So I think of Taylor Swift's recent song Eldest Daughter, and I love the phrase that she talks about. Eldest daughter was the first lamb to the slaughter. And so I will, I'll be the first to say, Chris, I'm a much better dad today than I was when our first daughter was born. So I don't know how good a job I did back then, you know, as a first time parent. And you know, you have two daughters and that first one you probably handle differently than you're handling the second one. And I don't mean that in a pejorative way, but you just learn a lot. And so I think I was much better with Chloe second daughter in terms of not trying to protect her from everything and trying to keep her from dealing with hard things. And so one great way to give them independence and let them create their own path is to try what they want to try. Chad Mitchell [00:05:26]: And whether that's sports, whether that's acting, whether that's music, whether that's cooking. I mean, giving your kids freedom to do and choose how they want to spend some of their time is a huge thing. And I'm a football guy, and so I wanted my kids to try football, except for my daughters. And that's a whole nother story that Caitlin would love to tell you about how she was the one shot at letting having a football player, and I told her she couldn't because she was a girl. Forgive me, Caitlin, but, you know, the kids didn't gravitate to football, and so we needed to let them do lacrosse and let them do soccer and let them do music. And so I think just giving the kids the ability to choose their own way as early as we can in a safe way, is a huge part of helping them be independent and also learn from mistakes along the way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:13]: Speaking about mistakes, all of us do make mistakes. We're human. And as our children are born, there is no manual to tell us how to be a dad. And hopefully we've had some good role models along the way, but not every father does. So, as you think back to raising your daughters and having them be coming up through their ages into adulthood, what's a mistake that you know that you did make as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering either a better positive connection or something else? Chad Mitchell [00:06:45]: So I will say that my dad was fairly strict. He was in the army as drill sergeant. And so you talk about role models and mentors, and we have those for good and ill. And my dad taught me a lot of great things. But like every parent, right, There are some things that I observed and saw that were not the best thing to do as a parent. And so I think being strict, as I already mentioned, with my eldest daughter and even with with Chloe, our fourth child, I wish I would not have been so strict. And it's okay to be strict sometimes, but as my wife says, choose your battles wisely. Right? Is it really important to be strict about this thing that doesn't matter at all? Because that was my experience growing up. Chad Mitchell [00:07:29]: Probably not. Do we need to be strict about, hey, you do your homework first, and then you go and play, and that's the rule. And sure, there's little exceptions because of unique circumstances, but, you know, the exceptions can't swallow the rule. So I was too strict with my kids. I got better, and I'm even much better today, but it's still a challenge, and I wish I wasn't so strict. And so dad's out there listening, you know, find those. Find those things that don't matter as much and let things go. So we're not constantly harping on or, you know, talking to our kids about little things as opposed to the things that matter most, which is them feeling loved by us and getting a lot of positive feedback from us, as opposed to, hey, did you do this? Why haven't you done that? You missed this spot on the lawn. Chad Mitchell [00:08:21]: I mean, very practical things that some you follow up on, but a lot of them I've found out, they're not important enough to degrade the relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:29]: Every one of us as fathers have to balance that. Like you were talking about the support and the challenge as we are working with our daughters, thinking about how you supported your daughters, how did you support your daughters in pursuing their dreams and their passions that they had for themselves? Chad Mitchell [00:08:50]: I would show up. Sometimes it was just a supportive parent in the stands or in the audience. Sometimes it was stepping up to be the coach because they didn't have a coach. Sometimes it was, you know, taking off work and going to see them do a presentation at school. I think showing up, Kris, is one of the most important things we can do and make sure you show up in the right role that you have. Because when I'm not a coach, I don't need to show up for my kids at their soccer game and coach them. I'm there to cheer them on. I'm there to be supportive of them and their team. Chad Mitchell [00:09:23]: And they have a coach. Let that coach do their job. Chad's not coaching. Chad doesn't need to coach. My kid at soccer, I'm there to cheer and support. So I think showing up and showing up in a way that's going to be supportive and listening and just enjoying the moment and enjoying whatever the result is. If it's a loss, there's an opportunity to learn something from that. Right? If it's a game that doesn't go well, there's an opportunity to learn something from that. Chad Mitchell [00:09:50]: And if it's an awesome game and your daughter hustles and maybe doesn't score a basket but plays super hard, oh, that's so much to celebrate, right? Just showing up and giving it great effort, man. There's a lot of success in that little simple recipe right there. So reward that. Be excited about that when that happens, point that out in our daughter's lives. When we see that that can change maybe a bad or a situation that they're not excited about, to see the good in it and see the way that they put forth effort which we can all control and turn it into a positive. Everything can be a positive if we look at it from the right perspective. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:28]: Now I mentioned that you have a new book called Change youe Game and it is a leadership book. It has has a lot of leadership principles within it, but it's more than just that. It, as I looked through it and, and read through parts of it, it's a, it's a guide that really helps young people understand their value, their influence and the power that they have to change the world around them. I love the fact that you use stories and science and use some reflection prompts through with, along with real life examples. And you invited all of us as readers to see that leadership isn't about age or popularity. It's about, as I said at the beginning, integrity, kindness, courage, and the choices that we make every day. So as an author myself, I know how much time, passion, effort goes into putting something out into the world. So I guess before we dive too deep into some questions about the book itself, talk to me about the genesis story of why this book, why this topic, and why you wanted to put it out into the world. Chad Mitchell [00:11:32]: So why this book? So it was October 17, 2020 that I started writing this book. I went back once I got it published. It's not available yet. It'll be available in January. But I went back to say how long have I been working on this? When did I actually start? So I went back and looked at my files and it's been five years and it was in Covid I was coaching, I coached spring lacrosse in Washington State, boys high school sport. And so that got cut off right before we had a game. I think the Thursday before we had a game on, on our first game of the season on everything got turned topsy turvy and we up here in Washington State, we did not have a season. So there's a lot of extra time that I had on my hands and a lot of reflection, as I'm sure all of us did or most of us did during the unexpected Covid that shut down many parts of our lives about what matters, what's important to me. Chad Mitchell [00:12:24]: And as I saw young people struggling with the reality of COVID and what it did to daily life. I was just trying to figure out a way that I could help beyond just the kids who I have influence over through church, through our neighborhood, through our community. And I felt like I should start writing this book. And so I started writing it, and it really. I don't know that, Chris. I don't know. That's a book I could have written five years ago. As you said, I've been working with you since I was 18. Chad Mitchell [00:12:53]: The first time I coached youth sports was when I was still in high school. Someone asked me to help with a soccer team. So I have a lot of the experience, but I think the nuance and the perspective, you know, I've gone through some counseling, some therapy, and I just felt like I was finally at a point where I was comfortable enough with myself and really was trying to do it for the right reason, just to help youth and help us as adults figure out a way to tap the potential that our youth have, that the time was right. And so, yeah, a lot of time, a lot of energy. I asked myself, I'd be curious if you did this when you've written your books, Chris, is anyone going to read this? Is it going to make a difference? Am I wasting my time? Because so much time and a couple points along the way, I felt like this is worth doing. And lo and behold, here we are five years later, and it's coming out into the world, which is super exciting. But I really would love to hear the answer to my question from you, Chris. Did you have imposter syndrome and doubts about whether this was the best use of your time as you slog through what a really hard thing to do in writing a book. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:55]: Imposter syndrome is definitely real, and you will always feel that way. And you'll have your people that you know will always say something nice. If your parents are still around, they're going to say nice things. Your family's going to say nice things. But it comes down to, okay, what are other people saying? People that you don't know. And you have to always just kind of turn a blind eye to naysayers because you're. There are always trolls out there, but there are people that will come out of the woodwork, and inevitably you're going to find that people do really like it and that people will resonate with it. So keep moving forward. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:29]: That's all I can say at this point. Chad Mitchell [00:14:30]: Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate the encouragement, and it sounds like we had a very similar experience. But one more question. Doesn't anyone go through Imposter syndrome before they make it. Because at some point, aren't we all imposters? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:43]: Yes, we always are. You always fake it till you make it and you hear that mantra. But it's very true. And I think a lot of our kids do feel that they have to be perfect, especially kids these days. And that's a challenge right now. I think as parents, we have to work with our daughters to be able to help them to see that they just need to be who they are, they don't have to be perfect and that nobody's expecting them to be perfect in any way. Chad Mitchell [00:15:10]: Social media makes that so hard, makes it so hard for our young men and young women to not feel like they have to live up and measure up to the artificiality they see on a constant basis through their phones. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:22]: Well, and so many filters. And seeing the non reality of what life really looks like when you look at people through the lens of an iPhone and through the filter filters that are provided there, it can make anybody look great and make the reality of a person's life look very different than what the reality really is now. You know, your book mentions and emphasizes that young people are not too young to lead and that their influence on peers is far greater than adults often realize. How can dads empower their daughters to see themselves as leaders right now, not someday in the future? Chad Mitchell [00:15:58]: Yeah, great question. And so one of the things I talk about in the book is labeling a leader, and I'm not sure exactly why, but calling our daughters leaders as opposed to saying they're leading or they have leadership. But using the noun calling them a leader actually is more effective than labeling it something else. And so one of the things I've done with my kids in my learning journey, Chris, is will tell me how you are a leader today at school. And he may, or Chloe or, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a son or a daughter. And they may say, you know, Chloe may say, well, I don't know that I was dad. I said, well, did you have a discussion with any of your friends? Tell me about that. And you ask questions in the appropriate setting. Chad Mitchell [00:16:44]: Right. Depending on your age of your daughter, she may not be interested in having that discussion with you. My experience is daughters are more open to having these discussions than a certain age of boys are. But I think you can point out little things to them that they don't think of as being a leader and label that a leader and talk to them about them being a leader and help them connect that, yes, this Little thing I do, saying hi to my friend in the hallway and asking them what they're excited about and then actually listening to their answer and remembering their answer. That's a great leader, right? That's connection with their peer. That's helping somebody else feel seen and cared about and respected. And it's so our kids don't think about it that way generally. And so our role as dads is point that out to our daughters and help them explore that and see that and how that can have such a positive impact on their peers. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]: One of the other things that I really liked in the book was throughout the book, you draw a line between integrity and inner peace. When, as you said, our shoes fit our feet, life feels right. How can dads help their daughters choose integrity, especially when fitting in or pleasing others, feels easier? Chad Mitchell [00:18:00]: I think the foundation that we need to try and give our daughters, Chris, is what I do in the book is explore principles. Right? If we have a foundation of principles that we try and use to guide our lives, then it's going to be easier for our kids to understand why it's important to be consistent with our principles. I mean, what principles are there? On just a random day on social media, there are no principles. Or if there are principles, the overarching principles are throw shade at other people. Look at me, I'm so cool. I have all these material things. And it's so easy to get caught up in as we talk about in the book. But when we have principles that help govern our lives, such as I care about other people more than I care about material things, as a dad, I tell my daughters I love them and I love them more than anything else in the world. Chad Mitchell [00:18:53]: Right? And if they know that love is one of the principles that I care about and I show that to them, guess what they're going to care about? They're going to care about love. And that's going to be an aspect of a principle, that they determine how it fits into their world. And so when we teach them principles about love, doing the right thing, even when it's hard, being kind to others, being honest with others and yourself, it's those principles rising to the surface in difficult situations. They're going to help them make the right choice. And when they don't make a right choice, we should have taught our daughters about making mistakes is part of the process, Right? Some of the greatest growth I've had is mistakes. Do my kids know that? Do my daughters know that? Absolutely. And I think that helps with. That's got to Be one of the principles is mistakes are a part of life. Chad Mitchell [00:19:42]: We're going to make them. The real question is, what do we do when we make them? It's not are we going to make them? It's how do we react when we make a mistake? And so that's a great question, Kris. I don't know that I did your question justice with my answer, but that's what I got right now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:55]: A number of your stories that you share talk about those that are Natural Helpers and Hope Squad, and you talk about that in your book. And it also relates to moments where young people saved lives simply by being trusted peers. What do you believe that dads can do to help their daughters become this type of friend that others feel safe talking to? Chad Mitchell [00:20:16]: The most important thing that a dad may be able to instill in his daughter's, his daughter or daughters, I think is empathetic listening. And I talk about that in the book, Chris. And what I mean by that is whole self listening. You know, if someone is sharing with me a problem, so think about this as having a discussion with your daughter or she trying to have a discussion with you. The, the optimal way to do that is to put your phone away, is to sit and look at the person. It's to not be distracted by other things. It's actually not to think about what am I going to say in response to what Caitlin and Chloe are telling me. It's I need to listen to what Caitlin and Chloe are telling me. Chad Mitchell [00:20:56]: I need to give them eye contact. I need to give them positive feedback that yes, I hear you. Keep going, keep telling me more. And it's through that listening that we're actually going to figure out things that we won't know unless we can have that empathetic listening and the discipline to be in the moment, to care more about what that person is saying than what we feel or what we want to do. And that is life changing. And you're right, Chris, in the story we talk about, you know, Hope Squad, they have had great success in reducing the number of suicides in the schools that they're at by helping our young people understand how important it is for these trusted peers to listen to their peers and then to be trained so that if someone is showing suicide ideation, they know what to do. And so I think listening and being in the moment and mirroring and practicing that with our daughters. And I don't mean practicing it in a way that is artificial, but I mean, dads step up, figure out how to do this because Anyone can do it. Chad Mitchell [00:22:02]: Step up how to listen effectively to our daughters. And, you know, if you're doing it already, great, fabulous. If you're not, watch that relationship improve immensely. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:11]: You have a lot of examples in the book also, such as Malala, Martin Luther King Jr. Huck Finn, people that were struggling or wrestling with courage, convictions, and choosing purpose over fear. How can dads invite their daughters into conversations about purpose, values, and doing the right thing, even when it might be hard? Chad Mitchell [00:22:35]: Being a dad is hard. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done. And so we signed up for hard things when we decided to be a dad. Right, Chris? I think being appropriately vulnerable with our daughters is a good thing. When we struggle with things, I think it's appropriate and good to share that with our daughters so that they understand that dad is just not this guy who bites down on his mouthpiece, grits his teeth and does things that are hard without feeling that they're hard. You know, he's just built that way. No, our daughters need to understand we struggle with those things. And sometimes we make mistakes, and sometimes we're scared, and sometimes we don't know what to do because guess what? They're having all those same experiences. Chad Mitchell [00:23:17]: But so often kids look at adults and they don't understand the struggles that adults are going through. And so I think as dads, really connecting our appropriate experience that are hard for us, that are challenging for us, where we make mistakes that are appropriate to share with our daughters based on their age, based on their circumstances, based on what we're going through, I think that's a great way for our kids to see the reality of what it means to live a life. It's hard. There'll be challenges, we'll make mistakes, but hey, dad can do it. He's not as funny as he thinks he is, and he can do it. I can do it, too. And I'm going to take confidence and examples from my dad, both his positive things and his negative things and the times he screwed up and use those to get through life when I do those same things. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]: Now, Chad, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions, they delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? You bet. Chad Mitchell [00:24:09]: Let's do it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:10]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Chad Mitchell [00:24:14]: Love. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:14]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Chad Mitchell [00:24:18]: I don't know who to attribute this to, but it's dads Love your mother. Let your daughter see how you love their mother. Because we want our girls to choose that type of relationship for their spouses. And I know some of our listeners probably divorced. I haven't had that experience. I'm. I'm sensitive to it. And I would say, again, not having had that experience, if you can still love your wife at some level, your ex wife, I mean, that's going to help everyone in that relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:47]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together? Chad Mitchell [00:24:50]: Going for walks, especially walks on the. On the Oregon coast. One of my favorite things. I love it. Hikes. Well, I love going hiking with the girls. I'm not sure they always like to go on the hikes, but we always had a good time, the way I remember it, at least. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:02]: Chris, if you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Chad Mitchell [00:25:08]: Follow Jesus Christ. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:09]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Chad Mitchell [00:25:14]: I got a lot to work on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:15]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Chad Mitchell [00:25:22]: Be authentic. Don't hide the hard parts of life from your daughters. You know, as appropriate, invite them into that. Let them see that there are things that you're great at, but there are also things that you struggle with, things that you're unsure about, because they're going to have all those experiences. And I think you equip them better to deal with them if you can have those discussions about your experiences when you're a father and their experiences as they go through teenagehood, which we know is a huge challenge. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:50]: Well, Chad, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today and for sharing everything that you've shared. If people want to find out more about you or the book, where should they go? Chad Mitchell [00:25:57]: Well, I appreciate you having me on, Chris. This has been really fun. You ask really good questions. So hopefully these help the dads. If you want to find more out about me or my book, you can go to my website, jchadmitchell.com and the book will be available in January. And it's change your game. Empowering young leaders to ditch doubt, find their voice, and impact the world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:21]: Well, that wraps up today's conversation with Chad Mitchell and what a powerful reminder it was that our daughters matter. Their voices matter, their choices matter, and their leadership matters. As dads, we have the privilege of walking alongside them as they discover who they are and the impact they can have. Thank you for being a part of this community of fathers committed to raising strong, confident, compassionate young women. And if this episode encouraged you in any way, share it with another dad. We'll see you next week on the dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:57]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:07]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting.

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5—the podcast that helps you grow closer to your daughter, five intentional minutes at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about something many of us face at one point or another: How to reconnect with your daughter after a busy or stressful season of life. Whether it's been work deadlines, health challenges, a family transition, or just the everyday chaos of life, there are times when we feel like we've lost touch. And if you're feeling that distance—you're not alone. The good news? It's never too late to reconnect. Let's walk through how to rebuild that bridge—with honesty, humility, and a little creativity. Why Reconnection Matters Here's the truth: Even when we're physically around, life can pull us emotionally away. And while your daughter might not say anything, she feels that shift. Reconnecting shows her: That she's still a priority That relationships can heal and grow That you're willing to put in the work—even when things haven't been perfect It's not about pretending nothing happened. It's about showing up again—on purpose. 3 Practical Ways to Reconnect with Your Daughter 1. Acknowledge the Gap Honestly You don't need a long speech. But a few honest words go a long way. "I know I haven't been as present lately." "Life got hectic, and I missed time with you." "I'd really love to reconnect. Can we start fresh?" This models vulnerability—and invites her into a fresh chapter. You're showing her that relationships take effort, and that's okay. 2. Make Time—Even If It's Just 15 Minutes Rebuilding doesn't need a grand gesture. Start small and stay consistent. Plan a quick walk together after dinner Grab a snack and sit with her while she studies Ask her to teach you something she loves (a game, a song, an app) The key is: be fully present. Put down your phone. Make eye contact. Listen without multitasking. Even short moments can make a big impact—if you're all in. 3. Create a "Just Us" Ritual Build something that belongs to just the two of you. It doesn't have to be elaborate—it just has to be repeatable. Weekly movie night Saturday coffee runs Monthly creative project Drive-around-and-chat sessions When life gets chaotic again—and it will—this ritual becomes an anchor. A reminder that no matter how busy things get, there's still space for the two of you. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Reach out today and take the first small step. It could be: A text: "I miss hanging out—want to do something together this week?" A conversation: "I know life's been hectic. I want to make more time for us." An invitation: "You free for a walk or some ice cream later?" Don't wait for the perfect moment. Create one. Because your daughter isn't expecting perfection—she's just hoping you'll show up. That's it for today's episode of Dad Connections in 5. If this message hits home, share it with another dad who might be trying to rebuild a connection after a busy season. Until next time—keep reaching out, keep rebuilding, and keep reminding your daughter that no matter what life throws at you, she'll always have your heart. If you enjoyed this episode, we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5—your five-minute guide to building stronger, deeper relationships with your daughter, one moment at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're diving into a season that can feel like uncharted territory for a lot of fathers: How to stay close to your daughter during the teenage years. Let's be honest—this phase is a big shift. The little girl who once wanted to hold your hand at the park may now spend more time in her room, scroll her phone for hours, and roll her eyes more than she talks. But here's the truth that matters most: She still needs you—just in a different way. So today, I'll give you three practical ways to stay emotionally connected to your daughter through the ups, downs, and changes of the teen years. Why the Teenage Years Are Critical These years are full of questions: "Who am I?" "Do I fit in?" "Can I trust myself?" "Do I have value, even when I mess up?" And while your daughter might act like she doesn't want your input, what she really wants is for you to show up—consistently, calmly, and without judgment. When you do that, you teach her: That her voice matters That she can trust herself and her choices That you'll be a steady presence, no matter what Let's look at how to make that happen in everyday life. 3 Practical Ways to Stay Close 1. Shift from Control to Curiosity In the early years, parenting was about protection and instruction. But now? It's about guidance and trust. Instead of: "You need to do it this way," Try: "What do you think is the best next step?" "How did that decision feel afterward?" This keeps the door open without shutting her down. Show her you're more interested in understanding than correcting—and she'll keep coming to you. 2. Create Rituals That Stay Consistent Teenagers crave freedom, but they also need structure and connection. Even if she's busier, you can build in small rituals that anchor your relationship. Weekly coffee runs or lunch dates Friday night walks Driving her to school and using that time to talk—or just be quiet together Sending a text that says "I believe in you" before big moments These habits become a signal: "No matter how old you get, I'm not going anywhere." 3. Be the Calm in Her Chaos The teen years can feel like emotional rollercoasters—and your daughter needs at least one person who stays calm, even when she's not. When she slams the door, gets frustrated, or messes up: Don't match her energy. Don't make it about your disappointment. Instead, offer grace and presence. Instead, say something like: "I'm here if you want to talk." "I'm still proud of you, even when things are hard." "This doesn't change how much I love you." That kind of steadiness builds deep trust—and it lasts a lifetime. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Reach out to your teenage daughter today in a way that feels natural—but intentional. Send her a simple "thinking of you" text Ask how you can support her this week Suggest one small, low-pressure hangout (even if it's just picking up takeout together) She might not always say it, but these gestures send the message loud and clear: "I'm still here. I'm still on your team. And I'm not giving up on staying connected—even when it's hard." That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If you're in the thick of the teenage years—or you're about to be—just remember: connection during this season is about being present, patient, and persistent. You've got this. Until next time—keep showing up, keep trusting the process, and keep being the dad she'll always know she can count on. If you enjoyed this episode, we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community, and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5—your five-minute boost of practical advice to help you grow closer to your daughter, one conversation and one moment at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're digging into a powerful parenting skill: Turning life's curveballs into teachable moments. Here's the truth—things don't always go as planned. Your daughter is going to face disappointment, frustration, failure, and change. She'll spill the milk, miss the goal, get the wrong grade, lose a friend, or just have one of those days. And in those moments, how you respond can either shut her down—or help her grow. So, let's talk about how to use unexpected challenges not as roadblocks, but as relationship builders and life lessons she can carry forward. Why These Moments Matter It's easy to teach when everything is going right. But the real magic happens when life isn't perfect. When you step in with empathy, patience, and perspective, you help your daughter learn: How to handle stress with grace How to reflect, adapt, and move forward That she is never alone in her struggle You're not rescuing her—you're coaching her through it. That's the kind of dad that changes lives. 3 Steps to Turn Challenges into Growth Moments 1. Stay Calm and Present Before anything else—take a breath. Challenges can trigger your emotions too. But your daughter is watching how you respond. Instead of jumping into "fix-it mode" or reacting with frustration, model calm curiosity. Try: "That didn't go the way you wanted, huh?"  "Do you want to talk about what happened, or just sit for a bit?" Your calm presence sends the message: "This is hard, but we'll figure it out together." 2. Ask Questions That Build Reflection After emotions settle, help her reflect—not by giving her a lecture, but by guiding her to think critically. Try questions like:  "What do you think went wrong?" "What would you do differently next time?" "What did you learn about yourself?" You're teaching her that mistakes and challenges aren't dead ends—they're doorways to learning. 3. Celebrate the Effort, Not Just the Outcome If she tried something hard and it didn't work out, highlight what went right—even if the result wasn't perfect. Say things like: "I saw how much effort you put into that project—I'm proud of your dedication."  "It took courage to step out of your comfort zone. That matters more than the result." You're reinforcing that resilience and growth matter more than success on the first try. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: The next time your daughter faces a challenge—big or small—pause and ask yourself one question: "How can I use this moment to help her grow?" Then respond with: Calm support A curious question Encouragement for her effort Even if it's just a spilled drink or a tough day at school, your reaction can help her learn that mistakes don't define her—they refine her. That's it for this episode of Dad Connections in 5. If this helped you reframe those frustrating or messy moments as powerful teaching opportunities, share it with another dad who wants to show up with intention. Until next time—keep showing up, keep asking good questions, and keep reminding your daughter that she's growing through it all—with you by her side. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

This week's episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" offers a heartfelt and inspiring look at the evolving relationship between a father and daughter as they navigate the world of competitive youth sports, college, and life beyond the field. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, this episode features David Murray, an acclaimed journalist and author of the new book "Soccer Dad," and his daughter, Scout Murray, who has just wrapped up a successful soccer career at Ohio University. Unconditional Support & Independence One of the episode's primary themes is the balance between support and independence in parenting. Scout Murray recalls how her dad never pressured her to follow a specific path and always backed whatever passion she pursued. As she puts it, "[My dad] always just made sure I knew that whatever my passion was, he was going to fully support it." This foundation of acceptance empowered her to chase ambitious goals in soccer—her journey marked by her own drive rather than parental expectations. David Murray admits his lack of soccer expertise helped him stay out of "coach mode" and instead be a true fan and ally, which fostered a safe space for Scout Murray to grow. Perseverance Through Challenges The episode delves deeply into the resilience required to pursue high-level sports, particularly when the journey gets tough. Scout Murray shares powerful stories of long car rides to soccer tryouts, difficult transitions to elite teams, and the emotional strain of not always being a starter. The message? True growth happens when you face setbacks head-on, and finding the strength to persevere means knowing you have supportive people behind you. Honest Communication & Emotional Openness A standout part of David Murray and Scout Murray's story is their commitment to honesty and vulnerability. They discuss the importance of admitting mistakes, owning up to less-than-perfect parenting moments, and, above all, keeping communication open—even (or especially) in challenging times. As Scout Murray notes, being able to "share everything that was going on" helped keep their relationship strong through ups and downs. Lasting Takeaways Whether you're a dad, a daughter, or simply someone looking for insights into meaningful relationships, this episode offers encouragement to value presence over perfection and emphasizes that taking your child's challenges seriously is one of the greatest gifts you can give. Want more of these hard-won life lessons and candid, touching stories? Give this episode a listen—you'll walk away inspired to build stronger connections with the ones you love. Catch it now on the "Dad and Daughter Connection." TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I am so excited that you're back with us again this week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: As always, every week, I love being on this journey with you. As you know, I'm a father of two daughters and this whole podcast was developed for you as someone that is also raising daughters today. And one of the things I love is that every week we can be on this journey together and you can gain something every week to help you to build those stronger connections that you want to have with your daughters. And we do that every week by having opportunities to talk to different people with different experiences that are able to bring those connections to the forefront, whether they're dads, moms, or other individuals that can help you to be that dad that you want to be. And today I'm really excited to be able to have two guests. David Murray and his daughter Scout are here and we're going to be talking about a brand new book that David has out called Soccer Dad. But we're also going to talk about the relationship that the two of them have together. And David is an author of a number of books including Soccer Dad. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:59]: So he has a number of books that are out there, but he's also an award winning journalist who's writing on sports and other subjects, has appeared in the New York Times, Chicago Tribune, the Atlantic and other publication. And Scout is on her way to graduating from Ohio University after a successful career in soccer at Ohio University. So we're going to be talking about that as well. So I'm really excited to have them both here. David, Scout, thanks so much for being here. Scout Murray [00:02:24]: Thank you. David Murray [00:02:25]: Great to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here today and I always start with these conversations with an opportunity to delve a little bit deeper into the connections that the two of you have. And I know we're going to dig into that a little bit more in the book, but I guess on the top end, first and foremost, Scout, I'm going to ask a question to you. As you think about the relationship that you've built with your dad, what's one thing that your dad did for you that made you truly feel seen, heard and valued as a daughter? Scout Murray [00:02:54]: I would say he, since I was little, has always made it very clear that there was no pressure from him to do a specific thing. There was nothing that I felt like I had to do to make, like to impress him, I guess I would say. And he always just made sure I knew that whatever I. Whatever my passion was, he was going to fully support it. So I think when it came to soccer, he never told me what I should do, told me how I should go about things. He kind of just like followed my lead, I guess I would say. And I think that always made me feel super comfortable talking to him about anything, really. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:35]: And speaking of that, David, I think every dad tries to help to guide their daughters. And how did you balance guiding Scout while also giving her the independence to grow into the person she's become today? David Murray [00:03:50]: Well, I think one of my qualifications for being a good soccer dad was that I don't know a damn thing about soccer and I never did. So it wasn't like we were in the car and I was giving her all this advice about how she should have played a certain way or certain shot. So I always kind of approached this as kind of a fan. To some extent, I was grateful that she did not play baseball or football or a sport that I even think I understand. So that was, I think, kind of my main qualification as a soccer parent and scout. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:22]: I guess looking back at the relationship you've built thus far as well, was there a moment where your dad's support or guidance really had a significant impact on your growth or your confidence? Scout Murray [00:04:34]: There was one summer that I think stands out to me when we spent the entire summer going on visits. College visits, college soccer visits. Yeah. We would drive somewhere, oftentimes for seven hours. I would sleep the entire time. He would drive me. And I feel like, I mean, I didn't realize it at the time because I think I was extremely self centered. But looking back on that summer, I think that I look back on it a lot and I think it made me realize, like, how much he's willing to put in to show me how supportive he is of my passions and what I want to do. Scout Murray [00:05:10]: So I think that moment is when I was like, okay, if I have this support system behind me, and I really want to do it. I should really just go for it. So I think that's when I really. David Murray [00:05:21]: Realized that that was a hard summer for a number of reasons. And one of the reasons was it is horrible to travel with teenagers. They're either sleep or they're awake, and they're looking at Instagram and dying of fomo. Even though their friends are just kind of hanging out somewhere in Chicago, they're never there with you. And the second they are there with you, they're trying to get you to listen to their music, and you're trying to listen to it and care about it, but you can't quite do it well enough. And it was, like, the longest summer. We were hoping it would be fun. It was not really fun, but it was productive. Scout Murray [00:05:59]: And it's good to look back on. David Murray [00:06:01]: It is fun to look back on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:02]: Yeah. So some of the things you're just talking about, there are finding intentional ways to build those bonds, and you sometimes are forced into those ways, but you also make those as well. So I guess, David, what are some intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bond with Scout, even when times might have not been the easiest? Or maybe it was challenging, like a trip where you're not talking a lot, but you're going places. But there's other times, especially in those teenage years. So what are some intentions, Ways that you've done that? David Murray [00:06:34]: I mean, a lot of humor. I think she and I tease each other a lot and always have, and that has kind of never gone away, even in hard times. Just staying engaged, like, talking about everything, asking her about what's going on in her life, being up for hearing most of it. There's stuff, as a dad you don't want to hear a lot of. Like, during high school, there's a lot of social stuff that's uncomfortable to hear about. There was a show that Scout wanted me to watch that was. That was trying to portray. It was a show. David Murray [00:07:04]: What was that show? It was about a high school in New York. Scout Murray [00:07:07]: Oh, yeah. Grand army or something. David Murray [00:07:09]: Grand army or. It was a show like that. And it was about this high school in New York where all these terrible things were happening. It was just high school society. And she said, you got to watch this, dad. You got to watch this to understand what this is like. And I was like, I hate this show. I. David Murray [00:07:23]: And I watched four episodes and that as far as I could go. But I did watch the four. It was like shaving my head with a cheese Grater. Because it's just really hard. And I think about my parents. They were great parents, but they weren't getting down in there and engaging in ways like that. I had no company like that. Scout Murray [00:07:39]: I do think we, even during hard times, are, like, very honest. And I think part of that is just, I'm an open book. I don't keep things in well. So I think instead of just acting out, I would act out and then be like, this is why I acted out. And we talk about it the next day. There was never a fight that wasn't talked about. I feel like if something happened, it was, well, this clearly needs to be talked about. So I think just, like, honesty and trying to just, like, share everything that was going on. David Murray [00:08:09]: So you're taking credit for our wonderful. Scout Murray [00:08:10]: I am. My openness. David Murray [00:08:12]: I actually think that's true. I think there have been times where I've wished she would gild the lily a little bit and not tell me everything that's going on, but not so much. I mean, in the book. And the college experience was really interesting to me when I went off to college. And you might relate to this, too. I don't think I talked to my parents until Thanksgiving, and then I don't think I talked to them again until spring break. I mean, you'd had to go down the hall and call on the payphone and call. I mean, Scout would facetime me after practice on the way to class, and it was just no big deal. David Murray [00:08:42]: It wasn't a show she was putting on. She was like, I had a bad practice, or I had a great practice, or, we were up way too late last night. And so. And we were always talking about this. In the book, I talk about, you know. You know, where my dad was during this time in his life. He was marching to Berlin in World War II. And I said, like, I wonder what his parents would have done if they'd had the same communications. David Murray [00:09:04]: And they probably would have been sending him nice text messages about his march, wishing him well on his march to Berlin. It's a different time, but it's the technology, which we complain about a lot, which has ruined a lot of things, has made this kind of communication a lot more natural and easy. When we talk to our parents once every couple months, even if it's once a week, you were kind of putting on a show for him. You were telling him everything was all right. You were telling them you were getting good grades. And when it's. When it's daily like that, you can kind of maintain a More human, easygoing relationship, Definitely. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:35]: Now, Scout, one of the things, I guess, that I'm interested in is the relationship with your dad. And how does that relationship influence the way that you navigate life, relationships, or challenges that you deal with? Scout Murray [00:09:47]: Yeah, I think I've actually talked about this with my friends because I think a big thing in this. I see it a lot on social media is, like, if a woman has had a bad relationship with their father, they have a really hard time navigating relationships, especially, like, romantic relationships. And I think. I mean, he is just, like, set the expectation of, like, how a man should treat anyone, like, let alone women. And I think I've, like, taken that very seriously. And he always jokes about he's not the kind of dad that is, like, super mean and scary to any boyfriend I bring home, which I think is a good thing. But, yeah, just like, you don't need to be. I don't think. Scout Murray [00:10:33]: I think I view men differently because of him. You don't need to be this extremely strong, masculine, crazy man. Like, you can just be a normal human being and emotional and kind. David Murray [00:10:47]: And so I think I'm a big crybaby. Scout Murray [00:10:49]: Yeah, he's a crybaby. So I think it's okay for men to. David Murray [00:10:53]: I loved your episode not long ago that it's okay for dads to make mistakes and admit it, that one Scout does not need to listen to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]: She. David Murray [00:11:01]: I know that we get that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]: Speaking of mistakes there, David, I guess as you think about your relationship and how you've built that, what's a mistake that you've made as a father, and what did you learn about it or learn from it about fostering better communication with Scout? David Murray [00:11:17]: Well, I talk a lot in the book about that as a soccer parent, but I think this is completely universally true. I think the fundamental problem of being a parent is you have two instincts, two things you need to do. You need to keep this kid alive. And in that way, you need to protect them and guide them and make sure they go in the right direction. But you also need to show this kid how to live, which means you let him do stuff. They do stuff. They make mistakes, they screw up. And in, you know, in soccer, that means, you know, not telling them. David Murray [00:11:46]: You got to play on this team. You got to do this. You got to apply to this school. This is your life. Like, a lot of parents get really prescriptive, and they start pushing their kids in directions and to the point where the kid must start wondering, am I doing this for them or for me? I made Mistakes on the other side, at least in soccer, I don't know about it. In life, I let it all play out. I figured if she was talented enough and wanted it enough, it would happen for her. That turned out to be basically incorrect. David Murray [00:12:16]: And we. And there were. There was a moment where she had to go up to a higher league. And that might have happened a year before had I been a little bit more on the ball. And I basically feel like I was lazy about that. But you make mistakes on each side of that equation. I think a lot. And I think the parents who in general figure out how much freedom to give and how much guidance to give, I think. David Murray [00:12:38]: And I think that's a daily agonizing problem for every parent all the time. And I think I've done a decent job at that most of the time. But when I've made mistakes, I've made mistakes by being lazy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:48]: I think let's move over to the book too, because you started talking about that. And one of the things that I noticed early on in the book was that you describe the soccer journey as starting innocently enough and something and then slowly becoming something far more consuming. So I guess looking back together now for both of you, when do each of you think the dream subtly shifted into something heavier? And did you realize it at the same moment or at different times? Scout Murray [00:13:15]: It's kind of a confusing story because I think if you asked me when I was seven what I wanted to do, I would say be a professional soccer player. I was very committed from an early. I mean, he still says I never, ever would have missed a soccer practice, ever. And it wasn't because I felt guilty. It was just because I genuinely loved soccer more than anything. And the soccer setting in Chicago is very interesting because it's not super, super high level inside the city. So I think I just was like, if I'm playing on a decent team and I'm the best player and I love all my teammates, I'm gonna play at a super high level. Like, I had never been told otherwise. Scout Murray [00:14:00]: That's just kind of what everyone. I was known as the SOCCE player. I made varsity as a freshman at my high school. Everything was going. Seemed to be like, going great. And then right about when Covid hit, I started training with a new trainer. And he basically was like, if you don't get better, you're not going to play D1 soccer. Like, let alone the top schools, you're not going to play D1 soccer. Scout Murray [00:14:23]: And that was a wake up call for sure. And I just Decided. I remember, like, I think I just one day was like, I need to change clubs. And I just decided, like, I need to step it up. Like, I just know I do. So we tried out for the best team in the state. And that was a terrible wake up call. I mean, so many tears. Scout Murray [00:14:42]: Yeah, it was a terrible. So I think in that moment was when we both were like, oh, yeah. David Murray [00:14:49]: There'S a scene in the book where she shows up at this tryout, and it is the best team in the state and maybe in the nation at that time. And so I was there with her. What we both saw, we were unprepared for it. And there was crying all the way home by her and silenced by me because I had nothing to say at that point. She had to switch clubs, and she had just gotten her driver's license. And now she's driving herself to an hour north of town for this soccer, for this torturous, incredibly hard, not very nice people around this team soccer. And she cried all the way up half the time, and she cried all the way back half the time, but she did it. Scout Murray [00:15:27]: But that. I think that is when, like, we both realized. It wasn't even a question whether I was gonna do it either. I had a tissue box in the passenger seat and would, like, seriously cry because I dreaded it so much. And the fact that, like, it was just. I. I have, like, many notes that I wrote of me saying, this is all for a reason. Like, this is all for college. Scout Murray [00:15:53]: So I think that's when I realized. Actually, I don't even think I realized it in the moment. I was just like, this is what I have to do. But I think looking back, that is, like, very telling of how much I really did want it and how much work I was willing to put in. David Murray [00:16:07]: And nobody was telling her she had to do that. She decided to do that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:11]: What you just said there, not every person would be willing to keep going. And that says something to push through the pain of the hard times and come out at the. The other side of being able to play D1 soccer, even though you did have to go through some hard times to get there. David Murray [00:16:28]: I mean, it's amazing. All parents look back. You see your kid as this little baby who basically couldn't feed herself. And you kind of. At some levels, at some level, you see them as that always. And then you look back and, like, I look back at what she went through with during COVID Cold calling these schools. Every. All these guys went through Covid. David Murray [00:16:48]: Then all this torture of Driving to this. These horrible practices. Then there was tort that. That there was nothing guaranteed. Then it was more torture to get into colleges. And you just look back and go, this kid was just doing all that and just showing so much character. And you just kind of. I'm amazed. David Murray [00:17:04]: Looking back at it, it looks more amazing. Going back at the time, I was not, like, cheering from the sidelines all the time. I was telling her, did you call? Did you email that? Those guys? But looking back, she did almost all that by herself, and it was amazing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:17]: You know, I think back in looking at the book scout, your dad wrote honestly about moments when his emotions or reactions didn't align with what you needed as a player or even as a daughter. So I guess as you think about that from your perspective, what do you most wish that parents understood about what kids actually feel during and after games? Scout Murray [00:17:40]: I honestly think that's not an easy question to answer because I don't think there's anything that can be said. Like, unfortunately, I think. I mean, from my experience, I was, like, asking for something to be said, but whatever was said wasn't gonna work. And I knew that. But I think I would text him, how did you think I played? And I would never text him that if I played well. Like, ever, ever would I text him that if I played well? Because it's like, I. Well, I played great. Like, you saw it and I felt it. Scout Murray [00:18:16]: But if I'm asking, what is he gonna say? Like, he's never gonna be like, you played bad. So I think it's just listening and just hearing, just letting any rant that needs to happen. And I honestly think the only thing you can do is say something positive that happened during the game. I think you did it as. As good of a job as that as you. Like, you worked as hard as you possibly could. He would always say that. And that's true. Scout Murray [00:18:40]: That's something I can take away from that. Okay, I. I gave it everything I had. So I think just trying to find something positive to say, but other than that, just. I would say I would avoid any criticism in that moment. Any criticism, because maybe the next day or if they ask or something, but even if they ask right after the game, I would avoid any criticism, because I guarantee you there's already enough criticism inside our heads. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]: You know, David, also in the book, there's a number of moments where you name and own some moments when you became the kind of sports parent that you never wanted to be. How did you learn to recognize those moments in real time? And what helped you repair trust afterward with Scout? David Murray [00:19:23]: Yeah, I don't think I needed to repair trust with Scout because I don't think Scout was the victim of those things. I don't think. But I remember in the book I talk about a moment when they were like 8 years old and this goalie let a ball through her legs and she was not a good goalie and suddenly was enraged at her and her parents for putting her out there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:44]: And. David Murray [00:19:44]: And I just. You must dissociate from it. I mean, what I really learned was don't sit with the other parents. The parents have this weird culture where they start to make comments and it starts to build on itself and they start complaining about the players and the refs and the coaches and it's like its own virus. So I took the lead of one of our parents who would just stand way down at the very end of the field by himself. If you do that, you're not going to be shouting crazy things at the players. You're down there by yourself. You're more likely to shout crazy things at the players when you're among the other parents and letting yourself get into arguments. David Murray [00:20:19]: I would get into arguments with my wife because she had a different way of looking at the game. And I just started just getting away and being by myself. And the other thing that I learned, this was an accident, but I started doing, filming a lot of the games and taking pictures. And that was such a good instinct because it got me in the right frame of mind. It got me in the frame of mind as I'm trying to capture the beauty of this. Who cares if it's a 2 to 1 game in Schaumburg, Illinois, and they're 9 years old? Nobody's going to remember any of the scores. But if I take a wonderful picture of her coming down the sideline or of one of her teammates, then I've got that forever. And it doesn't matter what the score of the game was. David Murray [00:20:55]: And doing that put me in the right spirit and got me out of the. The headspace of giving a crap who wins a game among 8 year olds. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:03]: I can definitely remember those type of games and I can definitely relate to what you're saying with how parents fed off of one another and how that built. So I appreciate you sharing that. David Murray [00:21:14]: There was one time in the car on the way home where it was one of those games and the parents were all mad about how the team had played. And we're driving home in the car and Scout's mom and I Are, like, all quiet in the front seat. And I think she's still in our bed. Car seat in the backseat. She was that young. And I remember her going, wait, are you guys mad? She's incredulous. And we were kind of, like, sheepish, like, oh, I guess we are mad for some reason. Get over it now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:39]: Scott, one of the book's powerful moments or themes that I noticed was that how much you valued team connection and belonging, not just performance. So for you, when competition got intense, what helped you stay grounded in the joy and the relationships rather than the pressure? Scout Murray [00:21:59]: I think that was something that, in college was really hard, and I would say a lot because of my parents, but I think all growing up, it was like finding the joy in the game and finding the joy in having these teammates. And we'd always watch this movie, Dare to Dream, which was. What was it? David Murray [00:22:19]: The 199099 Women's World Cup. Scout Murray [00:22:21]: Women's World cup team that was just so close and so had so much fun together. And so I think I really wanted to play D1 soccer because I love the game, but also because I know I've seen it, how close these teams get. And so I think that's what I wanted my whole life. And finally getting there, I did get all of that. I got my best friends, my future bridesmaids, hands down, the best friends I've ever had. But I think because it is such a competitive level, it was really hard for me to remember that at times. And I think it's hard to not become selfish, honestly, because at the end of the day, you never want to be the person that's not playing. There were times when I. Scout Murray [00:23:09]: Every single one of my best friends were in the starting lineup, and I'm the only one that's not. And that was, like, really hard to deal with. Like, okay, I absolutely love these people, and I do anything for them. But I also hate you right now. I really do. Like, and it was really hard to, like, figure that out. And I think looking back, there were so many moments that I would hate them. At practice, we'd get in a fight. Scout Murray [00:23:37]: I mean, this was, like, intense. Every single practice was, like, this intense. And then after, who would I be crying with about it? All of them. So it was just looking back, I'm like, I really was grounded the whole time. I knew these are my people. I think in the moment, though, it was hard to recognize that. But I think looking back, they were the reason why I was doing it. And if I didn't have them, I couldn't have done four years of such intense competition. David Murray [00:24:06]: And I think Scout going in, valuing that made her very much of a social leader on the team. She wasn't the team captain, but in a lot of ways, I think if you ask these folks, she'd say she was a big important part of the bonding and culture of the team because she sort of knew going in that that was part of her mission. Maybe a little bit more than some of the other players knew going in. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]: Now, I know you both talked about the journey to the D1 and being able to get to that point in the scene in the book surrounding the Division 1 scholarship offer. It really was filled with, I could tell, relief, tension, second guessing, some silence. If you could revisit that car ride now, what would you say to your younger selves and what would you say to other families facing that exact moment? David Murray [00:24:55]: I think that's partly just natural to feel that way. I would prepare people. It doesn't matter. If you want to be a physicist and you get into Harvard and you're going to be the great physicist, you go from the world being your oyster to a very specific thing that's now happening to you. College seems to close up the possibilities. And so even, yes, we'd gotten her scholarship dream. She was going to get a scholarship. She was going to play Division 1. David Murray [00:25:22]: But, well, it's at this school, it's in Ohio. At that time, it was only a 1/3 scholarship offer. Did we do the right thing here? You feel like your aperture just gets narrowed and you go, this is my life now. I think I would advise people just to be prepared for that feeling. Honestly, I think it's kind of natural. Scout Murray [00:25:39]: And I remember being very happy and just excited in the car while we. David Murray [00:25:43]: Were yelling at each other. Scout Murray [00:25:44]: Yeah, I was fine. I don't know about you, but I think it was also just a lot of fear. Like, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I didn't know anyone from Ohio. Every single person was from Ohio except for me. I had never heard of the school. I didn't know if I was good enough to play D1. There were so many things that I think it was just like a lot of fear. Scout Murray [00:26:06]: And I would say the same for you. We had just had no idea what we had just signed up for and we were just going with it. David Murray [00:26:13]: I don't think I'd tell anybody how not to feel that way. That's how you feel when you take a big risk. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:18]: So, Scout, your dad said at the beginning you played Your last soccer game for ou. Now that you're on the other side of the journey, what did soccer give you that still shapes who you are today? And what, if anything, did it take that surprised you? Scout Murray [00:26:32]: I think I now know how much strength I have and how much I really can do if I really want something. And I would say all the little things that I did, one moment in particular is in the middle of my junior year season. I had just come back from an injury. I was no longer playing much. I had gone from starting to playing 20 minutes a game. And I was so deeply wounded. I genuinely felt like I was heartbroken. And I still got up every morning at 6am in the cold, dark weather and practice extra for an hour before practices. Scout Murray [00:27:12]: And I think knowing that even when I'm in that deeply sad state, I can still do really hard things, I think I can take for the rest of my life, even when things aren't going well or I had no idea if going extra was going to make me play. There was no promises. So I think I can take that into my job, my relationships, into a lot of areas in my life. Something that it took from me, I actually don't know. David Murray [00:27:39]: I talk in the book about the opportunity cost of all this. When your kid's little, you want them to see all of life. You want them to see every aspect. You want to introduce them to art and music and books and culture and places and Paris and Istanbul. And I'm a journalist and so I. I saw a lot in life and I wanted her to see everything. And I will say that if you get your kid involved in youth sports, that eliminates some of those things. We did a lot. David Murray [00:28:09]: Scout went to China on an exchange program. We went to Thailand. We did a lot of stuff as a family, and she did a lot of stuff herself. Soccer wasn't her whole life, but even so, you spend a lot of time at Hampton Inns, you spend a lot of time on the road to soccer tournaments, and you spend a lot of the time think and talking about soccer. And so I don't know if Scout feels that cost or something, but when I imagine all the possible things Scout could have experienced in her first 21 years, I think soccer sort of eliminated some of those things. And I think that's a fact of life. With as intense as modern youth sports. Scout Murray [00:28:44]: Are right now, I don't even think I would say I missed a ton in my youth because of soccer. Maybe I did, but I would say mostly like college, if you decide to play college sports you have to accept that you're going to miss. I mean, I don't have many friends outside of my team is one thing, and that sucks. I mean, they're my best friends, but we're all pretty similar in a lot of ways. We have a lot of the same interests and goals. So I think that is something I missed out on. Meeting a lot of different, interesting people and not being able to travel abroad. I think there was a lot of stuff that I definitely. Scout Murray [00:29:22]: College sports are. It's a job. It is truly a job, and you need to be prepared for that, because I don't think we knew exactly how much. I mean, I don't regret it at all. David Murray [00:29:33]: But I mean, I remember asking the coach, and I didn't want her to join a sorority, but I said, could she join a sorority, for instance? And he's like, no. No one's ever done that. She's in her sorority. It's called the soccer team. Scout Murray [00:29:45]: And I think it's year round, too, which I think D3 is much less year round. And I think people often say, like, well, you're out of season now. It's like, no, it's still practice every single day. And. And. And someone asked me today actually, how are you feeling about soccer ending? And I'm like, you know, I'm really sad, and I think the sadness will hit me later on more. But I am also enjoying being a regular person right now and thinking about my career. I've truly never really had to think about my career until now. Scout Murray [00:30:18]: So I think I'm really excited for grad school because that's kind of my time to just be a normal person and dive into my passion in psychology. David Murray [00:30:27]: So, yeah, there was a moment when Scott was thinking about trying to go pro and play in Europe, and she said, you know what? How about not? How about let's figure out what else I'm good at? Which I thought was a good spirit. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:37]: You know, I guess the one last thing that I think of when I think of the book is if you are talking to a dad, a dad's listening right now that has a young daughter just starting in her sports journey, whether it's soccer or some other sports. What's one piece of advice that you'd give him so he stays connected to his daughter, not just her performance. David Murray [00:30:57]: I think it's the same advice that my dad gave me. It was his philosophy of raising kids. I think it's so easy as a parent to see that what kids are dealing with, whether it's soccer stuff or whether it's friend stuff that it's kid stuff that small problems, you have a mortgage to pay. This kid only has some little dispute with her third grade buddy. To the extent that you can take their problems as seriously as your problem because they're actually much more serious because they're dealing with that for the first time. I've paid my mortgage a thousand times, but they're dealing with that for the first time. And there were times when I didn't do that as a dad. Scub's probably thinking of it right now. David Murray [00:31:37]: One time I got so flustered at the amount of sturm undrang about her seventh or eighth grade friends, I yelled, these aren't your friends. These are practice people. Incorrect thing to say. But you feel that way as a parent a lot. I think to the extent that you can take your kids problems as seriously as you take your own because they are serious, you do a pretty good job of parenting if you do that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:01]: Well, we always finish our interviews of what I like to call the dad connection six and a lot of times it's just a dad on the call. So I love it when we have a dad and a daughter on because I'll ask you both some questions here. First and foremost, scout. What's one word that describes your relationship with your dad? David Murray [00:32:17]: Easy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:18]: And how about you, David? David Murray [00:32:19]: I would say close. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:21]: Scout. What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Scout Murray [00:32:25]: I actually told him this yesterday when I was younger. He said I was complaining about having to do something I didn't want to do, soccer homework or something. And he said what's a professional? And I said what? And he said someone that does something even when they don't want to do it. And I've definitely taken that I told him yesterday much. I don't think he realizes every morning that I had to go early to soccer practice and didn't want to. I would think about that. So that's definitely. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:55]: Yeah, good job. And David, I'm gonna flip it back on you. What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? David Murray [00:33:03]: The best piece of advice I got was from a paramedic pal in Chicago who about a week before my daughter was about to be born, he saw that I was, I don't know, I was acting nervous or something. He said, what's the matter? I said, I'm nervous. He said, why? I said, well, well, parenting. He said, what do you think that is? Parenting? Do you think that's like some set of tricks that you're gonna put out there and say all the right things at the right times. He said, no. Ultimately, your kids get you and your wife for 18 years, and you can try to be as good as you can, and you can try to use as many techniques as you want, but basically, if you're good, that's good, and if you're bad, that's bad. And that gave me a sense of comfort. Like, I knew that basically I'm good, basically my wife is good, and that we could only screw this up so much at that point. David Murray [00:33:49]: And I think that gives you a little bit of confidence, I think. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:52]: Scout, what's one activity that you and your dad love doing together? Scout Murray [00:33:56]: Playing tennis. David Murray [00:33:57]: And lately, billiards. Scout Murray [00:33:58]: Yeah. Playing pool is our new obsession. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]: And, David, do you echo that, or is there something else that you would add to that? David Murray [00:34:05]: Well, I like running half marathons with her, but she hasn't done it since she was 11, so I guess that's out. I love playing sports with her when she was little. I say in the book, a lot of parents are living vicariously through their kids. That's why they. They had kids in sports. I just wanted a playmate. I wanted somebody to play with, and she was always great. From, like, 2 or 3 years old, she would be in pretty competitive sports with me. David Murray [00:34:26]: And she was my sports buddy growing up. So we still are. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:29]: And, David, a couple of questions for you. If you could give Scout one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? David Murray [00:34:35]: It would be my dad's lesson to me, which was, this was in. In the old timey, sexist way. But he would say, every once in a while, a fellow ought to do something he's a little afraid of. And there have been times in life when I was on the edge of doing something and thought, should I do this? This is scary. And I did that thing, and I think it's always been good. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:56]: And what's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? David Murray [00:35:00]: Oh, that I'm an emotional disaster. I like, I don't know how this is with you, but I think about in my 20s, I think I cried maybe once a year. In my early 30s, before I had Scout, maybe I found some reason to cry once a month because I'm movie or something. As soon as she was born, I cry at card tricks and supermarket openings every day. I cry just about every day. I just finished reading the audible version of this book. Yesterday was my last studio session. There's some emotional spots at the end. David Murray [00:35:32]: It was so embarrassing. I Just could not get through it. And it is totally obnoxious if you're listening to an audiobook and the author starts crying. So I simply wasn't going to put up with that. But I had to do like, like five takes. So I think I've learned that about myself. I'm emotional and I like that. That's. David Murray [00:35:47]: I'm much more emotionally open than my father was. And I feel good about that, actually. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:52]: And finally, for both of you, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Scout Murray [00:36:00]: I would say from an early age, try to be as open and honest as you can, because I think kids pick up on that. That and from an early age it was very clear that there was never lying, there was never secrets. And I think that like really stuck with me. And I was raised with the impression that it was always okay to be honest about how you're feeling and not build up resentment. So I think, and I think sometimes that's hard. I have friends that aren't close with their dads and I think it's because neither of them are honest and neither of them share when they're upset with each other. And I think doing that will create a good atmosphere. David Murray [00:36:41]: I think I learned while being honest with her when she would ask me difficult questions when she was young, questions I wasn't sure I should answer. I think I also learned that kids, when they ask you a question, they will let you answer and they'll stop asking questions when they don't want any more information. I can't think of an example right now, but there were times where she would ask me a question, maybe about how babies are born or where all this stuff, and you would answer to a point and then the kid would stop asking and then two years later they'd start asking again. And so I felt that you deciding what kids should and shouldn't hear or can and can't handle, they kind of actually decide it for themselves and they take care of their own business in that way. And you should err on the side of telling more, I think. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:23]: Well, Scout David, I really want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today. David, if people want to find out more about you and the book, where should they go? David Murray [00:37:30]: They should go to a website called soccer dad story.com you can prerequisite ordered the book. The book is out April 14, but it's available for pre order now wherever books are sold. And it's available in the audible version, which as I said I just finished and I think it's a fun listen. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:46]: Well, again, thank you both so much for your time today and for sharing your story. And scout, I wish you the best as you move into the next phase of your existence post soccer. Now you can sit and watch soccer and enjoy that instead of being on the field specifically, or at least having the pressure of being on a D1 team. Scout Murray [00:38:07]: Exactly. Exactly. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:09]: Well, I wish you both the best. Scout Murray [00:38:10]: Thank you so much. David Murray [00:38:11]: Thanks so much for having us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:13]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:38:43]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers Messengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world too now Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

If you're a father seeking practical wisdom to nurture your connection with your daughter, this week's episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection is exactly what you need. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes psychologist and author Dr. Kathy Wu to dive deep into what it really means to support your daughter through today's unique pressures and challenges. The conversation kicks off with stories from Dr. Wu's own girlhood—memories not marked by grand gestures, but by the steadfast presence of her dad. As Dr. Wu puts it, feeling seen and valued came from her father's "indelible capacity to just always be present." This consistent support gave her the freedom to explore life, make mistakes, and develop the confidence to always figure things out. But presence is only one part of the equation. As today's teens grow up surrounded by social media pressures, perfectionism, and chronic stress, Dr. Wu's new book, The Self Regulation Handbook for Teens and Young Adults, provides evidence-based tools for building emotional resilience. The episode highlights that kids don't learn self-regulation or coping from lectures—they learn it from relationship. Regular, everyday moments—sharing a meal, taking a walk, or simply listening—are where trust is built and emotional intelligence flourishes. A recurring theme is patience. Dr. Wu emphasizes that supporting your daughter isn't about fixing her problems or making her perfect. Instead, model emotional honesty, validate her experiences, and collaborate. Whether it's managing big emotions or navigating anxiety, being physically and emotionally present is more valuable than having the right answers. Self-compassion also takes center stage. Dr. Kathy Wu reminds dads that there's no formula for "doing it right." Each father-daughter relationship is unique. It's about understanding, consistency, and unconditional regard—being a grounding presence in your daughter's life. Perhaps the most powerful takeaway? "Your daughter doesn't need your perfection—she needs your presence." This episode is packed with heartfelt stories, expert advice, and concrete strategies that every dad can use right away. If you care about raising confident, independent daughters, don't miss it. Tune in to the Dad and Daughter Connection and start building that lifelong bond today! If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I am so excited that you are back again this week because every week you, you and I are on a journey together. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:00]: We're on a journey as we are working together to be able to find the best way to be able to build those strong relationships, those strong connections that we want to have with our own daughters. And today on the dad and Daughter Connection, we're diving into a topic that every dad needs in his toolkit. How to support daughters growing up in a world full of pressure, stress, and constant change. Today Our guest is Dr. Cathy Wu. She's a licensed psychologist, a former professor, and the author of a new book called the Self Regulation Handbook for Teens and Young Adults. Her work is trauma informed, practical and compassion based, giving you real tools to help help your kids navigate anxiety, emotional disconnection, perfectionism, social pressure, and all of that turbulence that ends up happening during those years that they're growing up. I, I really love the fact, as I was reading it myself, that this book is really grounded in evidence based approaches and is written in a way that you can understand, but actually your teens can actually understand. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:08]: And it's written in a way that your teens would actually read. So for me, that's a positive because you never know what they're going to read. But the book itself has a ton of real life scenarios on topics that kids are dealing with. Things like calming skills and strategies to help young people build resilience, confidence and emotional self regulation. So I'm really excited to have Kathy here today for her to be able to share with you not only some of her own experience in being a daughter, but also some of the experiences from being a, from being a psychologist and from what she put out into the world through this new book. Dr. Wu, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Kathy Wu [00:02:48]: Thank you so much. That was such a lovely Introduction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]: I really appreciate you being here. As I mentioned, you are a daughter, and I love being able to kind of delve a little bit deeper into your own relationship with your father because that can help to better understand who you are today. So I guess one thing that I'd love to ask you about is what's one thing that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?  Grant Voisinet [00:03:15]: I can't say that there was one thing, but I think through the combination of his capacity to be very practical as a dad of not just one daughter, but three daughters and a son, he was someone who we didn't necessarily run to when we had distress, but we always knew he was going to be there in the sense that he was very predictable, very consistent and persistent with his presence. He didn't always have the best things to say or the most profound things to say, but he very much was always a present figure. It did help that we had a family business and we all sort of worked together as well. But I think for my sense of feeling seen, it was just his indelible capacity to just always be present and. And I think that really gave me the sense that I was going to be okay if there was anything that I needed to feel his support around. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:10]: Thinking back, was there a moment where your dad's support or guidance truly had a significant impact on your own growth or confidence?  Grant Voisinet [00:04:18]: Yeah, again, multitudes. I think there's been a lot of moments where I've gone to him and wondered, what am I going to with my life? How can I sort of navigate through some of the challenges? And he always said something that resonated and I believed, and that was, I trust you to figure it out. And that sort of capacity to trust me and his moment of going, well, Kathy, I've never had to worry about you. I've never had to stay up late at night wondering what you'll end up doing or how you'll navigate your choices in life. I just. You're not someone I necessarily worry about. And that gave me so much of a sense of freedom to be able to explore. Yes, I've had quite a few different sort of stops and starts with regards to career paths and such, but he always knew that.  Grant Voisinet [00:05:07]: I think, and I truly do sort of credit him to this, is that I will figure it out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:12]: How has your relationship with your father influenced the way that now you feel like you navigate life, relationships or challenges?  Grant Voisinet [00:05:21]: He never really had big emotions anytime when I was seeing him with his. His own challenges, either through his relationship with my mom, who's a lot more vocal and emotionally expressive. He always just seemed so even keeled. And I think that really did sort of set the stage and model for me that my first response shouldn't be through just shouting or yelling or throwing things or blaming or. Or not taking full stock of what's happening. So he was very well measured. I don't know where he got it from, but he had the capacity and he has. He still does have the capacity, sort of sit in that space.  Grant Voisinet [00:05:58]: He's not a man of many words, truly. You can sit in the car with him for miles and miles and he'll say really very little. But when the time came for him to respond, it's sort of. He had the capacity to just sort of be very wise with his sort of conceptions of what the issue might be, but never ever said things like, I think you should do this. He'll sometimes say, ask your mom what she thinks. But really, it was just. Just lots of reassurance that things will be okay. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:27]: Is there anything that you wish that your father had done differently when it came to building your relationship as a homeowner?  Grant Voisinet [00:06:33]: Now I have a lot of sort of little projects that I have to do around the house, and it's something that I felt like I was able to kind of see him experiment with and he was able to just fix things and be a handyman. And as a result, I've gained some bit of a confidence and be able to try things myself. But one example comes to mind, and that was during my postdoctoral training. I was on the way to this day treatment program where I was working, and I got a flat on my car and I didn't know what to do because I never learned to switch my tires out. But I was able to call on to two of my colleagues, co interns, and they rolled their sleeves up and they were able to go in and switch out the nuts and the bolts and get it all done. And in that moment, while I was so grateful for their help, I was going, well, how come dad never asked, never taught me this? So he didn't really intentionally seek out to teach me any skills. It was all sort of through osmosis or through observations. And I do wish that at times that he had looked to, hey, what are Kathy's capabilities? And to be able to do a little more guiding and showing as opposed to me just sort of learning through observation. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:47]: If you could spend an entire day with your dad doing anything, what would it look like?  Grant Voisinet [00:07:52]: I think it would just be taking a walk, having a good meal, perhaps doing something a little bit more passive. Because I don't necessarily look to him to sort of have these moments where he is wanting to teach a lesson or talk about himself actually. So so much of it is just very quiet with him and just his presence is enough for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:13]: Now I mentioned you've got a new book, the Self Regulation Handbook for Teens and Young Adults. And I guess first and foremost, before I get into the meat of the book and some of the things that I noticed as a author myself, I know the amount of time, effort, passion you have to have to get to the finish and getting this out into the world. So talk to me about what led you to decide to take that jump, to jump in and to put in that time, effort and passion into creating this and putting it out into the world.  Grant Voisinet [00:08:42]: I think I did it out of practicality, to be honest, Chris, and that is I found that I have compiled all of this knowledge and all of these tools, but really didn't have like a centralized place to direct some of my clients to or to be able to even organize my own thoughts. Sometimes as we sort of pick up new skill sets and knowledge, they come in a more or less a haphazardous way, right? Yes, we do sort of intentionally seek out knowledge, but sometimes they're very much just sort of shoved into different file cabinets in our brains. And so this was an opportunity, I thought, for me to organize everything around a central theme, but to also be able to tell a client, hey, this thing we just talked about in session today, I really like for you to learn a little bit more about it or if you're curious about other things related, here is this toolkit and it's packed chock full of really practical skills, as you have mentioned before. And I think they're good to have as just a reference on a coffee table, for instance, so that you really begin to activate and use and repeat. So that becomes secondary skills for a person. And so yeah, I was born out of necessity and practicality, really. And it's also nice to be able to get back to sort of the academic brain, which I left a couple of years ago in pursuit of more robust clinical practice. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:01]: In your book you talk about teens growing up in a world of chronic trauma. Everything from political upheaval to social media pressures, I guess, for dads listening who want to be a calming presence instead of another source of overwhelm. What does showing up as a trauma informed parent actually look like in everyday moments?  Grant Voisinet [00:10:23]: I think when showing up for a child, it's less about big moments, it's more about everyday consistency. So I really think that being able to respond to the small stuff. The Gottman Institute, who talks about relationships and intimacy building, right. That the. But in sort of a context of family or a romantic partnership, really draws on this idea of emotional connection and bids that I think is applicable for adult parents and children. So when your daughter tells you maybe a random story from her day, treat it like a window into her world. And those moments really count and allow for the development of trust and allowing for the daughter to be able to talk about bigger things with you when those moments come. I think doing things together certainly is really helpful.  Grant Voisinet [00:11:08]: So share activities, cooking, hiking, walking, fixing things, as I mentioned, really create a natural space for conversation and connection. And what we know is that studies have shown that shared experiences are one of the strongest predictors of closeness. And then finally, if I had to just say one more thing, and it is really model emotional regulation and emotional honesty. And when dads show that they are okay with expressing sort of feelings of frustration, nervousness, pride, daughters, they learn how to emotionally identify as well as be able to regulate from that. So you're really teaching her how to handle life just by being real and being honest and being responsive and sort of holistic in how it is that they're navigating the world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:55]: Another powerful idea from the book is that self regulation is like a superhero skill. What are some ways fathers can help their daughters build that skill? Especially if they struggle with big emotions, anxiety, or shutting down?  Grant Voisinet [00:12:11]: I think this is something that perhaps as I'm thinking more about my own relationship with my father is just the patience. I think that the patience that he was able to show, and I think that more fathers can show, can really allow for a daughter or child to not feel judged based on whatever experiences that they're having or having challenges with. So in order for them to have the capacity to problem solve, right. It's that space gives them enough time to be able to conjure up their own inner strength, to be able to work through some of the challenges. So it's not about helping them resolve a problem, it's about guiding them along the way and again, reinforcing this idea of autonomous decision making and problem solving. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:55]: You know, a lot of dads say that they want their daughter to talk to them, but that she just won't open up. Based on your work with emotional disconnections, what advice would you give the dads trying to help their daughters feel seen, safe and Understood without pushing too hard.  Grant Voisinet [00:13:12]: I think that when it comes to feeling seen, it's ultimately helping a daughter feel that their capacity to sort of taking the world is one that is valid and that is under development and really being able to see that they'll need to get be perfect at resolving any conflicts or issues and they don't have to have the perfect words to describe what is going on makes a huge difference. And so what we really want to help dads understand about their daughters is that they're looking for you to be there to sort of have this sense of grounding, that no matter what happens when they are out in the world, the dad or the parental figure will still have this unconditional regard for them. So it's not about just pushing for them to talk because they do need space, especially during the adolescent years, to sort of experiment and seek out new novelty and experiences, but really to feel that when they come home to you, come home, that you'll always be consistent. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:17]: I love that The. I love the fact that your book blends both humor, compassion, and psychology in a way that I could relate to, but also I could tell that that teens could relate to. How can dads use the same approach with practical skills, you know, not lecturing or passing on judgment to help their daughters navigate through emotions like perfectionism or burnout or comparison.  Grant Voisinet [00:14:42]: I think that the reason why perhaps my book feels effective as well as the ways I navigate my client relationships feel really effective, is that I show up as myself. I'm not coming in with any sort of pretenses. I'm not using necessarily jargon because I think they think I will be cool. I think I show up and really I affirm their effort. I affirm their character. I don't look at just their sort of grade or what have you, right? So I really sort of value and respect and honor their presence. And I think fathers can definitely do the same with their daughter. That, with that said, you know, don't necessarily leave out the.  Grant Voisinet [00:15:20]: The dad jokes and, and all of that. Be yourself. And if you're going to be a little goofy or unsure, it's okay. I mean, your daughter might sort of roll their eyes and not again, but deep down they understand that you're trying. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:33]: Another thing that you talk about in the book is the importance of self compassion. Many dads struggle with wanting their daughters to be strong while not being overwhelmed. How can fathers model self compassion in a way their daughters will actually learn from?  Grant Voisinet [00:15:50]: One thing that I want to remind the parents of daughters that I'm working with are teen daughters in particular is this is all new. It's new for you, it's new for them. And there's no right or wrong way to go about it. It's what's right for you and your child. And I think sometimes parents have a sense that they are doing it wrong, but the person to really judge that is your daughter and yourself in a way that doesn't necessarily factor in societal expectations as heavily. So I think it's really important for parents to see that there's not sort of a one side size fits all approach. It's really about what works for you and your family. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:31]: You talk about grounding mindfulness and coping routines that teens can use when emotions get intense. Because let's be honest, they can get intense. If a dad noticed his daughter is anxious or spiraling or overstimulated, what's a supportive response or even a simple script that he could use in that moment?  Grant Voisinet [00:16:53]: There are fortunately really well meaning words that sometimes can stifle conversation or ways in which a daughter might feel that she is able to be fully expressive of her emotions in that moment. And I think that sort of leads back to why I think my relationship with Bai dad was so effective. And that is he wasn't very quick to tell me anything. Sometimes just being able to leave that space open was good. And there was a lot of reflecting back. Oh, you feel angry, oh you feel misunderstood. Oh you feel unseen. And that really sort of was all I needed.  Grant Voisinet [00:17:30]: I didn't need anything else from those interactions. And sometimes I think there were moments in which for me, I wanted my dad to self disclose a little bit more. Hey, when I was your age, I experienced this. He didn't do as much of that. But I think that the sense of relatability is what a lot of teen daughters want from their parents as well. From my experience with clients, they just feel like their parents didn't exist before they became their parents. And I think having insight into their background and their upbringing and their development is also really important to continue to build that intimacy and that relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:03]: The final thing that I thought about as I was looking at this book and reading through it is that a lot of dads want to be fixers. They want to fix things fast. But your book emphasizes letting teens have the autonomy and the choice. How can fathers balance offering help with giving daughters independence so that support doesn't feel like pressure?  Grant Voisinet [00:18:26]: I think collaboration is really key, especially during this phase of life. It's being able to say, hey, let's problem Solve together. Let's come to some sort of consensus as to what would be helpful and providing maybe menu items like if I were in this predicament or this situation, if I were feeling this way, I would do X, Y and Z. Is there one that you might be interested in from this, this list that I just provided. But really being able to say, you know what, I'm going to leave it to you to ultimately decide what you're going to act on because you're going to actually deal with the consequences of those behaviors. And so being able to say I'm here with you, I'm here, I'm going to though not be providing you all the answers. I will provide guidance if you ask me is really important during this phase of development. So in other words, be physically present.  Grant Voisinet [00:19:18]: Offer not just kind of this open ended help, but rather like hey, if there are some practical things I can help you with at this point, here's what I can do and you have to tell me how this fits into your scheme of what, what the situation is and what you you believe the resolution could be. So collaboration. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:36]: Now, we always finish up our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection 6. Now, I usually have these questions for dads and I'm going to ask you four of the six because most of them are geared toward dads, but there's four of them that I want to get your perspective on. What's one word that describes your relationship with your dad?  Grant Voisinet [00:19:54]: Peaceful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:55]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received?  Grant Voisinet [00:19:58]: You'll be fine. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:59]: What's one activity that you and your dad love doing together? Eating any type of food, Anything. What advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?  Grant Voisinet [00:20:12]: Be emotionally present. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]: Well, Dr. Wu, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today. If people want to find out more about you and about the book, where's the best place for them to go?  Grant Voisinet [00:20:22]: The best place to go for the book is at any bookstore or online retail. And my website is woopsychology.com I don't have any social media, unfortunately, but that's it. And you can find more information out through Ulysses Press, which is the publisher for the book as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:40]: Okay, dads. So this episode has been a powerful reminder that our daughters don't need us to be perfect dancers. They just need us to create safety. So I really appreciate that Dr. Wu was able to show us that self regulation isn't just a coping skill. It's a lifelong superpower and that all dads can help build it every day through empathy, patience and presence. So I highly encourage you to pick up the book and I'll put a link in the notes today because it truly does give you a lot of these tools. A lot of the things that Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:14]: Wu is talking about, it's all there in print. It's things that you can share with your own daughter for her to read. And I guess if you remember one thing from today's episode, I would say this Kids don't learn emotional self regulation from lectures. They learn it from relationship. So when your daughter's overwhelmed, she's scared, she's angry, or maybe she's silent. She needs your presence, not your perfection. So, Dr. Wu, I just want to say thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:40]: Thank you so much for being here today, for everything that you shared today, and I truly wish you all the best.  Grant Voisinet [00:21:45]: Thank you so much. This was a pleasure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:47]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share this video it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:22:18]: We're all in the same boat. Musical Outro Performer [00:22:24]: And. Musical Outro Performer [00:22:24]: It'S full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time. Musical Outro Performer [00:22:32]: We give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Musical Outro Performer [00:22:45]: Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and must some men get out and be the world to them. Musical Outro Performer [00:23:05]: Be the best dad you can be. Musical Outro Performer [00:23:11]: Be the best dad you can be.  

What does it mean to be fully present for your daughter? In the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Mark Reinisch, author of The Wellness Ethic, to explore the art and heart of intentional, love-centered fatherhood. If you want practical insights, real stories, and meaningful encouragement for nurturing your most important relationship, this episode is for you. Mark reigns as the perfect guest, bringing not just expertise—he's the father of two daughters—but also vulnerability and wisdom from his personal journey. His story of supporting his daughter Emma through a multi-year struggle with chronic headaches and migraines is deeply moving. Through overwhelming medical challenges, Mark witnessed Emma's resilience and learned the profound impact a father's presence and support can make. Moments of victory, like the day her headaches disappeared, offer hope and inspiration for any parent facing adversity. The episode's main theme is clear: wellness is not a luxury—it's a responsibility. Drawing from his book, Mark emphasizes that love is "the north star" of wellness for dads. He shares honest lessons learned, admitting mistakes like being overbearing in sports and how tuning in to your daughter's interests, at her pace, creates deeper bonds. This is connection not as a grand gesture but as a daily practice—being present, listening, showing up for games, carving out one-on-one time, and evolving alongside your daughter. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Mark discuss responding to your daughter's stress and imperfection with compassion, modeling vulnerability, and reframing setbacks as opportunities. Mark's "accept, frame, respond" model from his book is a powerful tool for helping daughters build lifelong resilience and self-compassion. Another gem from this episode is applying the 80/20 rule: focus on the vital few actions that make the biggest difference in connection, knowing every child's needs are unique. This conversation isn't obsessed with perfection—it's grounded in love and presence. As Mark Reinisch says, "Connection will evolve as you both grow, but nurture it, and love will always be there." Whether you're a seasoned dad or just starting out, these lessons will change how you show up for your daughter—and for yourself. Listen now to the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast and start building stronger bonds today! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to work together to welcome on this journey that we're on with our own daughters. And today on the dad and Daughter Connection, we're driving into a conversation every father should hear. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: Our guest is Mark Reinish, author of a new book called the Wellness Ethic. It's a thoughtful and often humorous guide to living a more intentional, joyful and love centered life. In his book, Mark introduces concepts like the Wellness Ethic, which is a valued centered devotion to wellness, and the idea of the self actualized genius, which is that inner voice that encourages us to be our best self. So throughout the book, I really love the fact that he blended personal stories, self reflection, mindset tools and the 8020 rule to make wellness accessible and realistic. And he brings a perspective that matters to this show specifically because he's a father of two daughters himself. So today we're going to be talking about his own journey as a father, but also we'll be talking about some of the things that he learned in writing this book and some of the connections between being a father and what he was sharing in this book for you. In reading the book myself and looking through the book myself, Mark's goal is simple nurture the wonderful gift of our existence and help others do the same. So I'm really excited to have him here to talk to him about both these aspects and to introduce him to you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:30]: Mark, thanks so much for being here today. Mark Reinisch [00:02:32]: Oh, thank you for having me. Looking forward to it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:34]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to talk to you and I know as I just mentioned and, and I know in our conversations you have two daughters yourself and I've got two daughters myself. I and I love being able to start the show really delving a little bit into that and talking about that, that, that bond that Those connections that we have with our daughters. And I guess, first and foremost, I know there probably has been many meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughters, but think about what's one meaningful moment that really stands out to you and what made it so special. Mark Reinisch [00:03:07]: I, of course, love my two children dearly. One is 31, Audrey. And then the other is 24, Emma. One experience that I'll point out that I write about extensively in the book was with Emma and she was a high school freshman and she started to have shoulder issues and she had to give up her rowing career because she ended up having shoulder surgery. And we thought, okay, we'll get that fixed and then she'll move on. But then more pain started to occur and then she ended up breaking her ankle at the end of her freshman year because she was going to start getting into cross country running. And so she had put that on hold. Then we were starting to plan once she recovers from that, well, maybe you won't be running soon, but we'll start riding our bikes because we shared a lot of activities. Mark Reinisch [00:04:01]: I've always done that with both of my children. And then at the beginning of her sophomore year, she started to get these horrific headaches, basically a level four to six nonstop. And then she started to get migraines. And this was every single minute of every single day. So that continued. We went to every doctor imaginable and it got to the point after a couple months of literally non stop pain that she had to be pulled from school. And this was pre pandemic. So it was a paradigm shift for, for us. Mark Reinisch [00:04:34]: And to make a long story short, it ended up being a two and a half year ordeal where every single minute of every single day she had a headache at the level of a four to six. And then five to seven times a day she would get a migraine that would jack up the pain to an 8 to 10 level. So witnessing that happen to her, but then seeing how she never gave up on life, the resilience to overcome that pain and do her darn, to live her life and find meaning, be involved in school activities even though she was homeschool, she still in clubs, and to be fully engaged in trying to exercise and to try to find meaning and joy, it was incredibly inspirational. But going back to your question, Chris, the moment when she started to take Botox, that started to control the migraines better. And then she, the doctor prescribed this muscle relaxant that started to reduce the level of her headaches, but she still had a level three to five headache every single minute of every single day. So it didn't resolve all of it. But then she took this extended version of Flexor all, which was the muscle relaxant, and that miraculously wiped out the headache altogether. And the moment she took it, she didn't tell us anything about it. Mark Reinisch [00:06:03]: And for a couple of days, she would not respond to us when we asked, well, is it working? And then after around three days, she told us that the headache was completely gone. She had gone a full day, couple days without any pain after two and a half years. And I'm getting goosebumps even talking about it that moment. Good Lord. Wow. My wife and I will never forget that. It was like a massive ray of sunshine about life's possibilities again for her. So very magical moment because as a father, as you know, as a parent, in a way, you may live through your children, you'll suffer any pain yourself if you can relieve any suffering for them. Mark Reinisch [00:06:47]: So for. For that miracle to happen was quite amazing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:51]: That's an amazing story. And it really shows also some of the things that we deal with as fathers in regards to really hearing and being present for your daughters when they truly need you and even when they don't need. And I guess as I think about what you just said and talking about that intentionality with both of your daughters, what did you do in the past or even now to truly make your daughter feel valued and heard? Mark Reinisch [00:07:21]: A whole bunch of things. One thing I would mention is being very careful not to have them live your dreams and your vision for their life. One of the things that really surprised me with my children is I expected the second one, Emma, to be just like the first one. So the oldest, Audrey, was very personable, athletic, very creative, and she was going down a certain path. And I expected Emma to be a carbon copy. Same parenting style, but they had some similar interests, but very divergent interests. And what I was very careful about is not try to try to shape them in my image other than teaching values, you know, really emphasizing character, challenging them in a way. Actually, that was a common approach with both of my children to help them build a strong moral and growth foundation, but really be in tune with what they're interested in, what they're curious about, what they want to be challenged with. Mark Reinisch [00:08:26]: And then once they show an interest in something, how can we double down and triple down and find a way to support that and stretch our means wherever possible to help provide opportunities. So an example, my oldest daughter started to play soccer, and it was many years after her friends had started, so she was behind. But she had a dream to play in high school and really have fun with the sport. So we hired a coach to help skill up. She joined club soccer and all that, But I also would spend weekends at the field running soccer drills, trying not to overwhelm her. But hey, if you want to get better, I'll try to coach you and do basic things to try to improve her skills. Even though I've never played soccer, never really even loved the sport, but now I love the sport because she loved the sport. So being in tune with their needs and helping them and coaching them to get the most out of, you know, their dreams, I can tell just by. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:32]: What you're saying that you're definitely in the weeds. You're involved, you've been involved through their lives and you've made those intentional decisions to be able to help them to become the women that they've become in their lives. And I guess none of us are fallible, though, and we all make mistakes as fathers. So what's a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it about building a either more positive connection or a stronger bond with your daughters in the end? Mark Reinisch [00:10:02]: One example, it's sports related. Again, not everything was sports related. But my youngest daughter took an interest in basketball probably when she was five or six years old, and she just had a natural ability with it. And I've always played basketball ever since I was little. So that was my sport the moment she became interested in it. All right, I'm all in on that. So I became a coach during the summer league and would coach her there. But then this was unlike soccer, with basketball, I have a laundry list of really good drills that are going to build skills. Mark Reinisch [00:10:37]: Dribbling, shooting, the strategy of the game. I just love the sport. So here's this 6,78-year-old girl who expressed some interest in basketball. Amazing ability. Now you have an overbearing father who's trying to teach her everything I know about this sport, even offering, hey, if you want to before school starts, let's do some things because you say you really want to be great at this, well, I can help you get there. And I overwhelmed her and turned her off on the sport where she lost interest and moved on. And it was because I was overbearing. I learned very valuable lesson. Mark Reinisch [00:11:16]: So the next thing that she was interested in, I would nurture that. I would coach her, but I would be much more in tune with where she wants to go at the pace that she wants to go. And that was incredibly valuable to her. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:30]: In that I mentioned at the beginning that you have a new book called the Wellness Ethic. And in your book, your book says the meaning of life and the north star of the Wellness Ethic is love. For dads. What does it look like to build a relationship with your daughters where love isn't just a feeling but a daily practice? Mark Reinisch [00:11:51]: I think at the heart of it is engagement on their terms. So it's multifaceted, it's being involved and present in their life to the best of your ability because you know things can be hectic, you have a lot of other priorities, but every day it's finding that connection. So some examples could be. And I write about it this in the book. I've always had to work full time and I always viewed it as a job and a half, whether it's traveling, overtime, weekend work. But on the side, I always had side hustles because I was pursuing my dreams as well. So that would be writing a book that took six years, 20 plus hours a week. I launched a social media startup, did that for four years with a co founder, ended up selling that and wrote a dozen screenplays. Mark Reinisch [00:12:46]: So I've always been very active on the side. But despite that, the priority was if they have a game, I'm there. We made my wife and I a sacrifice where she wanted to be a stay at home mom. So we found the financial means to be able to do that. And I would carve out time on weekends to go out to lunch with one of the children, one on one and just connect. So it was really finding that quality time or it was coaching them or it could be they wrote a paper for school and they wanted my perspective on it, so I would review it and work with them on creative writing. Even with my social media startup, I gave them a percentage or 2 of the net worth of the company. Not just because I love them, but because they actually played a role in it. Mark Reinisch [00:13:38]: They would give feedback on screen designs, they would even design some screens in our try to incorporate some of those aspects into the web design. They would test things, they would post things, use it so they, they were actually legitimately involved in it. So I would find ways to try to involve them in some of the things that I was leading. So it's being very intentional to find ways to connect on their terms, involve them in, in your life and gauge how that's working, is it well balanced? And if you notice a deficit, you gotta reengage and go be because maintaining that connection is so Vital. And that was a big part of my life purpose. So it came naturally. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:23]: Now also in your book you talk about the self actualized genius, that internal guiding force and that encourages us to live as our best, healthiest selves. How can a dad act from his self actualized genius when his daughter is upset, stressed or melting down rather than reacting in frustration, anger or shutting down? Mark Reinisch [00:14:48]: Yeah, the book really is a guide to nurturing the wonderful gift of your existence, to getting the most out of your life, building a healthy mindset. And it's all gearing a person up. So you get to the point where you don't react so much to what's happening around you, but you choose your response, you're intentional, the decisions you make. Because at the end of the day there's really just two things you control in life. That is your mindset in the moment. So you can choose to be happy, you can choose to be angry, you can choose to be peaceful, controlled. And the second thing you can always choose is your response to what happens to you. So if you have an angry child who's very upset, you could react, yell, worsen the situation, you could walk away, that could be your reaction. Mark Reinisch [00:15:37]: Or you can with, with calmness, as much as possible you can choose a response that's going to help diffuse the situation, look at the big picture and help guide that interaction to a better place. And that all starts with your mindset and that the control you have over how you respond. Then on top of that, Chris, if you really practice some of the principles that I talk about that really defines a self actualized genius, one of the overarching principles, and it ties back to the meaning of, of life, which is to feel and share love. If you take a love centered approach to what's happening around you, if you lead with love, as I talk about in my book the Wellness Ethic, then you're going to approach that situation not from anger yourself, not in a punitive way necessarily, but you're going to approach it through love. And you're going to try to guide your child in a direction that's going to promote love in their life as well. Easier said than done. But if you have that focus, you're going to find that you get better and better at it and your child is learning in the process as well and is seeing a very positive way on how you can deal with conflict. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:57]: So true. And I've seen it in many ways in my own kids lives and the way that I act or react to situations. So and I think that Leads to another point that I noted in your book, which I felt that a powerful part of the book talks about kind of what you were just talking about, that we have to respond to our kids in different ways and the idea of responding perfectly to the imperfect so often rules our life. Dads are like any other humans that are out there and we get things wrong, whether that's through discipline, communication, work, life balance. How do you feel that fathers can model imperfection in a healthy way so that their daughters learn self compassion instead of fear of failure? Mark Reinisch [00:17:41]: It's being vulnerable yourself. It's talking about the challenges in your life and how you're dealing with them. It's helping them put in perspective the challenges they have and the mistakes they have. It's not overreacting to when they do something wrong. And it starts with yourself. So if one of my children does something wrong, even today I really have tried to train my mind to think in terms terms of, okay, well yeah, that was imperfect behavior. I wish they hadn't done that. However, none of us are perfect. Mark Reinisch [00:18:15]: I've made plenty of mistakes. Show some compassion and focus more on the positive. Well, there's a whole lot to be grateful for because that child of mine is so smart, so compassionate, such a good person, has done wonderful in school, is well intentioned and she may have fallen short in this case but in the big picture she'll learn from it. Not the end of the world. And when you come from it from that perspective, it really can be a game changer and a big part of this. Kristen it's going back to talking about being a self actualized genius or at least striving to be your best self. A big part of being able to do that is building a foundation which gets at wellness and well being. So it's nurturing your mind to be a more positive thinker, to be more grateful for your blessings, to be more resilient, to be able to detach from the bad things that may be happening and choose healthier responses. Mark Reinisch [00:19:13]: It's taking care of your body. It's creating positive energy from being more spiritual and bringing more love and connection into your life. It's nurturing positive relationships. When you start to have those pieces come together and understanding they're never going to be perfect. You're always going to be working on things. But that also reflects life in itself. Life will never be perfect for anyone. We always have challenges. Mark Reinisch [00:19:39]: But the more you move forward in a positive direction, build healthy habits, you find that you're much more resilient when Stress occurs, you are better positioned to choose your response rather than overreacting. So that's how wellness can really be an enabler to healthy relationships with your daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:59]: I mentioned at the beginning that you write about the 8020 rule for wellness, focusing on the small percentage of actions that create the biggest, biggest impact. If a dad wanted to improve his connection with his daughters using the 8020 rule, what would the vital few practices be? Mark Reinisch [00:20:18]: That's a terrific question, and there's no one standard answer. Because what the 8020 rule says is basically, if you focus on the vital few things, let's say the 20% of all the things you could do and focus on the most important things, you're going to get 80% of the positive impact. So you don't spread yourself thin and try to do everything under the sun. But each child and each relationship that you have with your children is different. Your child has different needs, you have different needs, you may have different constraints. So in my example, the 20% that I focused on with my child, Emma, as she's going through the headache, the situation was very different than the 20% I focused on my older daughter who wasn't having those medical issues. So it's really, I believe it's meeting the moment moment based on the reality of where you're at, what's working, what's not working, what does your child need? So that 20% may mean that you do have to rebuild your relationship. You have to find more common ground, spend more time together doing things that you both enjoy to build up that relationship. Mark Reinisch [00:21:29]: That 20% in some cases may mean that you need to tutor your child to help them because they may be struggling in school, they may be struggling socially. So you have to, to see how you can support that. They may need to see a psychiatrist if they're really struggling in some areas. So it's being in tune with what their needs are and then determining how can you focus your efforts to meet them based on what they need. So there really isn't a standard pat answer to that question. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:59]: Now finally today, one final thing that stood out for me in the book is you write about reframing setbacks like, like your layoff, not as a disaster, but as opportunities. And many fathers may have something like this happen to them in their life. So how can dads teach their daughters to see challenges through a productive frame, especially in a world where stress comparison and self judgment are so common? Mark Reinisch [00:22:26]: That's such a important life skill, no matter what age you are, what situation. And that goes back to choosing Your response to what happens in your life. And knowing that I was writing a book about wellness again, mind, body, spirit, relationships, your personal and professional pursuits, and on and on. And that to really get the most out of your life, to nurture the wonderful gift of your existence, a big part of that is building healthy habits and introducing meaningful change in your life that you adopt. That stands the test of time. So knowing that that's not easy, otherwise we would all be there, right? I wanted in the early part of the book to build some essential life skills that will help you move forward in a positive direction with confidence in your life. So I had a chapter on building habits, adopting change. And I also had a chapter on this model that I call the accept, frame, respond model. Mark Reinisch [00:23:25]: And that is something that you can work with your children on to help them come to grips with challenging situations. So the first step is you accept what is happening, happened. You accept the reality of what has happened. You're not in denial. So if you fail a grade, if your child fails a grade, well, that happened, you know, and you can blame others, but the reality is it still happened. And you have to come to grips with the truth of what happened. Where, yeah, there may have been some extenuating circumstances out of your control, but you may have also contributed to that challenge. So accept the truth of what has happened, then frame it in the most realistic, but life affirming way. Mark Reinisch [00:24:09]: What is a positive frame, how you can view it, your mindset towards what has happened, that's going to put you in a position to move forward. So in my life, for instance, when I was laid off the first time at bank of America, it was during the Great Recession of 2008, 2009, job market dismal, housing market plummeting, and I was underwater. But I had just gone through a life coaching certification. So I really had this positive outlook and a lot of tools at my disposal. What I chose to do was to frame that layoff as actually a gift. I wasn't enjoying my life and financial services. I wanted a career change. And this was going to prompt me to find a way to move forward. Mark Reinisch [00:24:51]: And I knew that myself and my family were going to find a way to survive. So I had that positive energy to move forward. So framing what has happened in a positive light, yet realistic light is very important because once you have accepted and framed what has happened, then you can choose, choose the best response that's going to move you forward in a positive direction. So when you're coaching your children as they're going through difficulty, you help them to accept and frame it in a positive way. Then you explore with them what are all the different ways that you can move forward and what is going to be the potential outcome of those choices. And as that opens your child's mind to the possibilities, quite often you're going to of see a little spark and some enthusiasm coming into the equation where they're going to think, hey, there's a silver lining here. I can go down a path that could be pretty darn exciting, that helps them to start to move forward. Then you support them on that journey. Mark Reinisch [00:25:51]: So it can be a very powerful approach. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]: Now, Mark, we always finish our episodes with what I like to call the dad connection. 66 more questions to get to know a little bit more about your own relationship with your daughters. So. So. Are you ready? Mark Reinisch [00:26:06]: I am ready. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:06]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Mark Reinisch [00:26:10]: Love. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:11]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Mark Reinisch [00:26:15]: It was from a teacher and it was simple. And they were talking about when they're at the dinner table with their child and there was a second helping. They always wanted that second helping, but they let their child have it. And that simple story spoke volumes about parenting. It's about them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:35]: What's one activity that that you and your daughters love doing together? Mark Reinisch [00:26:39]: We absolutely love to go hiking in national parks, being on mountaintops and just seeing the splendor of nature. We absolutely love that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:49]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Mark Reinisch [00:26:54]: Move forward in the direction of your dreams and to expand upon the Thoreau quote that I'm sharing, you will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:05]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Mark Reinisch [00:27:09]: When I first became a dad and I wrote about it in the Wellness Ethic, it was incredibly intimidating. I didn't think I could do it. How could I connect with a newborn? How could I nurture a child, help them become an adult? It was intimidating. But then I quickly realized that every father is in the same boat. How on earth do you do this? But millions and billions of fathers have found their way to be able to be really good fathers. And that is such a valuable life lesson to any situation that enter the arena and you will figure out a way to be successful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:51]: And finally, what's one piece of advice that you would want to give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Mark Reinisch [00:28:01]: To me, it's all about connection. Finding that bond and nurturing that bond, but being able to, to evolve over time. And that's one of the secrets about any kind of relationship that you have a lot of overlapping interests, love, support, things that you share. And that evolves over time. And it can diverge if you don't tend to it and nurture it. But if you nurture it and evolve as you and your daughter are both evolving and find a way to maintain that connection and it will change, the terms of it will change. But if you maintain that connection, the love will always be there. And so that's what I would. Mark Reinisch [00:28:45]: That's the advice I would give. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:46]: Well, Mark, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing all of this today. If people want to find out more about you or the book, where should they go? Mark Reinisch [00:28:53]: Well, two places. If you go to any online bookseller like Amazon.com, type in the Wellness Ethic, you'll be able to get a print version, hardcover, soft cover or ebook. Or go to wellnessethic.com for a website on the book book. And one reward is on the website wellnessethic.com there's a video of me in a business attire jumping off a cliff at Crater Lake, 30ft down, 35ft into the water. It's quite entertaining and there's a lot of meaning behind it that I talk about in the book. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:29]: Well, I hope that you've heard today that in this conversation that I hope you've heard today in this conversation that you know, to me, this conversation is a powerful reminder that wellness isn't a luxury, it's a responsibility. And in Mark's words, happiness isn't something you chase, it's something you choose, respond to and build through love. So I encourage you that if today stirred something in you, the desire to be more present, intentional, more connected, I encourage you to check out Mark's book. I'll put a link in the notes today because the book is truly really it's a thoughtful, vulnerable, funny and practical book. It's got a ton of things inside it that'll make you think and help you have a different perspective on not only your own life, but the life that you want to have and the way in which you want to father. So for me, if you take one thing from today's conversation, I would take this. I would say that fatherhood is not about being perfect, it's about being present. You've heard that before in the show show, but you've definitely heard it today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:33]: Mark reminds us that our daughters don't need a flawless dad. They need a dad who pauses instead of explodes, listens instead of fixes, designs, time for family instead of hoping it magically appears and loves them out loud, not in silence. Because connection isn't about building big moments. It's built in small rituals, software words, shared laughs, and honest apologies. So this week, do something. Choose one thing to do. Take a walk together. Say I love you without a reason. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:07]: Ask what made her smile today. Give her your attention for 10 minutes. That's what this book is all about. That's what the wellness ethic is in action. That's how you nurture the wonderful gift of your existence and hers. So, Mark, again, thank you. Thank you for your wisdom, your vulnerability, and for reminding us to nurture the wonderful gift of our existence. I really appreciate you being here for sharing today, and I wish you all the best. Mark Reinisch [00:31:33]: Thank you very much. I enjoyed it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:35]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:05]: We're all in the same boat. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:12]: And it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:33]: Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the to. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:49]: Now. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:53]: Be the best dad you can. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:56]: Be. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:58]: Be the best dad you can.  

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, where in just five minutes, we give you simple, powerful ways to connect with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, capable young woman. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about a life skill that often gets overlooked but has a lifelong impact: financial literacy. Here's the truth: money habits start young. And as a dad, you have a huge opportunity to shape how your daughter thinks about money—how she earns it, saves it, spends it, and shares it. And no, she doesn't need to wait until high school economics or her first paycheck to start learning. She can start right now—and so can you. Why Financial Literacy Matters (Especially for Girls) We teach our daughters how to read, how to tie their shoes, how to be kind—but too often, we skip over how to handle money. And yet, money touches nearly every part of adult life: 💵 Making choices 💳 Building independence 🏠 Planning for the future 🎯 Setting goals Girls who learn early are more likely to feel confident, empowered, and in control of their futures. And let's be honest—you want her to know how to manage her money before someone else tries to manage it for her. Three Simple Ways to Start Teaching Money Skills Early 1. Give Her Real-World Practice Even young kids can understand the basics of spending, saving, and giving—if we give them opportunities to practice. ✅ Use a jar system or a simple app: one jar for saving, one for spending, and one for giving. ✅ When she earns or receives money, help her decide where each dollar goes. ✅ Take her shopping and talk about prices, choices, and value. Let her make small decisions now so she can make better big decisions later. 2. Talk About Money Out Loud Most of us were raised to treat money like a private, sometimes awkward topic. But if we want our daughters to grow up confident, we need to normalize the conversation. ✅ Say things like: "This is why we're saving for vacation instead of eating out tonight." ✅ Talk through your budget: "We're choosing this item because it fits our budget." ✅ Let her help plan: "We've got $20 for this birthday gift—how can we make it special?" The more she hears you think out loud, the more she learns that money isn't scary—it's something she can handle. 3. Teach the Difference Between Needs and Wants It sounds basic, but it's huge. Especially in a world where ads, influencers, and social media blur the line. ✅ At the store, ask: "Do we need this, or do we just want it?" ✅ Involve her in choices: "We could buy this now, or save for something bigger later—what do you think?" ✅ Celebrate when she makes thoughtful decisions, not just thrifty ones. This builds decision-making, discipline, and delayed gratification—which are key financial life skills. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Today, include your daughter in one small money decision. ✅ Let her help compare prices at the store. ✅ Ask how she'd split $10 between saving, spending, and giving. ✅ Talk about a financial goal you're working toward—and ask if she has one too. Even a two-minute conversation can plant a seed. And over time, those seeds grow into financial confidence, independence, and strength. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If this helped you see money as more than math—if it reminded you that raising a strong daughter means teaching her how to manage her own future—send it to another dad who's ready to do the same. Until next time—keep showing up, keep talking openly, and keep raising a girl who knows her worth and how to manage it. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads! Welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, your quick, practical guide to building a stronger bond with your daughter—one honest, intentional moment at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about a powerful but often uncomfortable truth: why admitting when you're wrong actually strengthens your relationship with your daughter. We're dads. We want to protect, guide, and lead. And sometimes—whether out of pride, stress, or habit—we act like we always need to have it all together. But here's the thing: your daughter doesn't need you to be perfect. She needs you to be real. So in the next five minutes, I'll share why admitting your mistakes builds trust, how to do it without undermining your role as a parent, and what it teaches your daughter about confidence, humility, and respect. Why Owning Your Mistakes Matters When you admit you were wrong, you're showing your daughter that: ✅ It's okay to be human. ✅ You value honesty over ego. ✅ Respect is a two-way street. And most importantly, you're teaching her that accountability is a strength—not a weakness. Because one day, she'll make a mistake. And what you've modeled will shape how she responds to it. What Happens When We Pretend We're Always Right? ❌ It creates distance. ❌ It teaches her that making a mistake means losing worth. ❌ It can leave her feeling dismissed, unheard, or frustrated. But when we say something as simple as, "I was wrong, and I'm sorry," something amazing happens—walls come down, and trust goes up. 3 Practical Ways to Own Your Mistakes as a Dad 1. Call It Out Clearly Don't bury your apology in excuses. Keep it simple and direct. ✅ "I was wrong to raise my voice earlier. That wasn't fair to you." ✅ "I misunderstood what you were saying, and I jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry." The more direct and sincere you are, the more powerful your words become. 2. Share What You Learned from the Mistake Your apology becomes even more valuable when it shows growth. ✅ "I've been really stressed, but that's no excuse for snapping. I need to manage that better." ✅ "Next time, I'll make sure I listen before I react." You're not just saying sorry—you're showing her what it looks like to learn from failure. 3. Invite Openness in Return By being vulnerable first, you create a space where your daughter feels safe doing the same. You can say: 👉 "Have you ever felt like that too?" 👉 "What do you think I could've done better?" It shifts the dynamic from "dad talking at daughter" to "dad growing with daughter." Quick Takeaways: Start Today! Here's your challenge: The next time you realize you overreacted, misjudged, or made a mistake—say it. Clearly. Out loud. And mean it. ✅ Own your part. ✅ Keep it simple and sincere. ✅ Use it to model growth, not guilt. Your daughter doesn't need a perfect dad. She needs one who's willing to grow, to own his missteps, and to treat her with the same respect he expects in return. Because when you admit you're wrong, you're not losing authority—you're gaining something far more powerful: trust. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If this spoke to you, share it with another dad who wants to lead with humility and strength. Until next time—keep showing up, keep growing, and keep leading with love. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome back to another episode of Dad Connections in 5—your five-minute stop for meaningful, real-world tips to help you build a lasting bond with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're unpacking a topic that every dad wrestles with at some point: "When should I give advice, and when should I just listen?" We've all been there—your daughter comes to you upset, confused, or venting, and your immediate instinct is to jump in and fix it. That's what we do, right? We want to protect. We want to help. But here's the truth: Sometimes she doesn't need you to fix anything. She just needs to know you're listening. Let's talk about how to tell the difference, why it matters, and how you can respond in ways that keep her talking—and trusting you—over time. Why This Matters Giving advice too quickly can shut her down. Just listening—without judgment—can open her up. When you respond the right way at the right moment, you're telling her: ✅ "Your feelings are valid." ✅ "You're not alone in this." ✅ "I believe in your ability to figure things out." And that's where real connection lives. 3 Ways to Know When to Listen vs. When to Advise 1. Ask Before You Answer This is the golden rule: before you offer advice, ask this simple question: 👉 "Do you want me to just listen, or would it help to hear what I think?" You'll be surprised how often she'll say, "I just need to vent." And when she says that? Honor it. Stay in listener mode. Nod. Reflect. Let her speak without interruption. Giving her that choice builds trust and autonomy—and she'll be more likely to come to you again next time. 2. Listen to Understand, Not to Solve When she's talking, don't plan your response while she's still mid-sentence. Don't jump to "Here's what you should do…" Instead, use these kinds of responses: ✅ "That sounds really hard." ✅ "How did that make you feel?" ✅ "What are you thinking about doing?" Your calm, grounded presence teaches her that it's okay to sit with tough emotions—and that she doesn't have to rush to fix everything. 3. When You Do Give Advice—Make It Collaborative There will be moments when your wisdom is needed. But make it a conversation, not a lecture. Try something like: 💬 "Would it be okay if I shared something that helped me in a similar situation?" 💬 "Can I offer a different perspective?" 💬 "What do you think about this idea?" When you invite her in—rather than directing her—you're treating her with respect. That's the kind of guidance she'll actually remember. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: The next time your daughter comes to you with a problem, pause before responding. ✅ Ask, "Do you want me to listen, or would it help if I offered some advice?" ✅ Then follow her lead—really. ✅ Let her talk without solving unless she invites you to. Because sometimes the best thing you can say is simply: 👉 "That sounds tough. I'm really glad you told me." In that moment, she's not looking for a fix—she's looking for you. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If this helped you rethink how you respond to your daughter's challenges, pass it on to another dad who wants to build that same kind of trust. Until next time—keep listening well, offering advice gently, and showing up with the kind of love that puts connection before correction. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5, the podcast where five minutes of practical advice can help you build a lifelong bond with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're diving into something you already have daily opportunities to teach—problem-solving. Here's the big idea: You don't need a classroom, a curriculum, or a crisis to teach your daughter how to solve problems. You just need to slow down, involve her in real-life decisions, and ask the right questions along the way. In this episode, I'll show you why teaching problem-solving is one of the best gifts you can give her, how to use everyday situations as teaching tools, and give you three practical tips to try—starting today. Why It Matters Life is full of challenges, and your daughter will face her share—at school, with friends, in future jobs, and even in relationships. ✅ When she knows how to work through problems, she becomes more confident ✅ When she learns to think critically, she becomes more independent ✅ And when she sees that failure is part of learning, she becomes more resilient You're not just helping her get through today—you're building the tools she'll use for a lifetime. Everyday Moments Are Teaching Moments The next time a challenge comes up—don't solve it for her. Instead, use it to coach her through a process. That's how learning happens. Let's say she can't decide what to wear to a school event, or she's frustrated with a classmate, or even struggling with a tough homework assignment. Ask questions like: 💬 "What's the actual problem here?" 💬 "What are some options?" 💬 "What do you think might happen if you try that?" 💬 "How would you feel about the outcome?" You're not giving her the answer—you're helping her find her own. That's powerful. 3 Simple Ways to Teach Problem-Solving Through Daily Life 1. Narrate Your Own Problem-Solving Out Loud Let her see your thought process. ➡️ "I'm trying to figure out the best way to fix this leaky faucet. I could call a plumber, or I could look up a video first. Let me try the DIY route and see how it goes." It sounds simple, but modeling how you work through problems teaches her it's normal to try, fail, learn, and adjust. 2. Let Her Struggle a Little (with Support) It's hard, but don't rush in to fix everything. ✅ Give her space to think ✅ Be her sounding board ✅ Ask guiding questions, not leading ones She may get frustrated, but that's part of growth. Tell her: "You've got this—I'm right here if you need help, but I want you to try first." 3. Celebrate the Process, Not Just the Outcome Even if her solution doesn't work, focus on her effort: ➡️ "I love how you thought that through." ➡️ "You didn't give up. That's what matters most." ➡️ "Next time, you'll have an even better idea." This builds grit, and shows her that making mistakes is part of solving problems—not a sign of failure. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: The next time your daughter comes to you with a problem—don't solve it. ✅ Ask her what she thinks ✅ Talk through the options ✅ Support her as she tries her solution Big or small, every problem is a practice run for life. Because the goal isn't to remove every obstacle—it's to teach her how to climb over them on her own. And when she does? She'll carry that confidence with her forever. [Closing Music] That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If you found this helpful, send it to a fellow dad or save it for the next teachable moment that shows up unexpectedly. Until next time—keep showing up, keep asking good questions, and keep helping your daughter grow into a confident, capable problem solver. Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5, the podcast where five minutes of practical advice can help you build a lifelong bond with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're diving into something you already have daily opportunities to teach—problem-solving. Here's the big idea: You don't need a classroom, a curriculum, or a crisis to teach your daughter how to solve problems. You just need to slow down, involve her in real-life decisions, and ask the right questions along the way. In this episode, I'll show you why teaching problem-solving is one of the best gifts you can give her, how to use everyday situations as teaching tools, and give you three practical tips to try—starting today. Why It Matters Life is full of challenges, and your daughter will face her share—at school, with friends, in future jobs, and even in relationships. ✅ When she knows how to work through problems, she becomes more confident ✅ When she learns to think critically, she becomes more independent ✅ And when she sees that failure is part of learning, she becomes more resilient You're not just helping her get through today—you're building the tools she'll use for a lifetime. Everyday Moments Are Teaching Moments The next time a challenge comes up—don't solve it for her. Instead, use it to coach her through a process. That's how learning happens. Let's say she can't decide what to wear to a school event, or she's frustrated with a classmate, or even struggling with a tough homework assignment. Ask questions like: 💬 "What's the actual problem here?" 💬 "What are some options?" 💬 "What do you think might happen if you try that?" 💬 "How would you feel about the outcome?" You're not giving her the answer—you're helping her find her own. That's powerful. 3 Simple Ways to Teach Problem-Solving Through Daily Life 1. Narrate Your Own Problem-Solving Out Loud Let her see your thought process. ➡️ "I'm trying to figure out the best way to fix this leaky faucet. I could call a plumber, or I could look up a video first. Let me try the DIY route and see how it goes." It sounds simple, but modeling how you work through problems teaches her it's normal to try, fail, learn, and adjust. 2. Let Her Struggle a Little (with Support) It's hard, but don't rush in to fix everything. ✅ Give her space to think ✅ Be her sounding board ✅ Ask guiding questions, not leading ones She may get frustrated, but that's part of growth. Tell her: "You've got this—I'm right here if you need help, but I want you to try first." 3. Celebrate the Process, Not Just the Outcome Even if her solution doesn't work, focus on her effort: ➡️ "I love how you thought that through." ➡️ "You didn't give up. That's what matters most." ➡️ "Next time, you'll have an even better idea." This builds grit, and shows her that making mistakes is part of solving problems—not a sign of failure. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: The next time your daughter comes to you with a problem—don't solve it. ✅ Ask her what she thinks ✅ Talk through the options ✅ Support her as she tries her solution Big or small, every problem is a practice run for life. Because the goal isn't to remove every obstacle—it's to teach her how to climb over them on her own. And when she does? She'll carry that confidence with her forever. [Closing Music] That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If you found this helpful, send it to a fellow dad or save it for the next teachable moment that shows up unexpectedly. Until next time—keep showing up, keep asking good questions, and keep helping your daughter grow into a confident, capable problem solver. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Here's the deal: The world won't always respect your daughter's space, time, or feelings. But if she learns from you that her voice matters—if she knows how to say no, ask for what she needs, and stand her ground—she's going to be stronger in school, friendships, future relationships, and the workplace. Let's break down how to model, teach, and encourage this vital life skill in your everyday parenting. Why This Matters Boundaries are about self-respect, not selfishness. When your daughter can set healthy boundaries, she's better able to: ✅ Avoid peer pressure ✅ Communicate her needs clearly ✅ Build safe, respectful relationships ✅ Stand up when something feels wrong And here's the key: The way you respond to her boundaries will shape how confidently she sets them elsewhere. 3 Practical Ways to Teach Boundary-Setting 1. Model It Yourself—Out Loud Let your daughter see and hear you set boundaries in respectful, healthy ways. ✅ "I need a little quiet time right now, and then I'd love to play." ✅ "I'm not okay with being spoken to like that. Let's take a break and try again." ✅ "I have too much on my plate today, so I'll have to say no to that request." When you name your own limits clearly and calmly, you show her that it's okay to prioritize her own emotional and physical space—and that boundaries don't require anger or guilt. 2. Celebrate Her Voice When She Uses It When she speaks up—even in small ways—acknowledge it and reinforce it. 💬 "I'm proud of you for telling your friend how you felt." 💬 "You did a great job saying no politely but firmly." 💬 "You asked for what you needed—that takes confidence." When she knows you won't dismiss or shame her for expressing herself, she'll be more likely to keep doing it. And when she says "no" to you? Practice the pause. Stay calm. Show her that boundaries in a healthy relationship go both ways. 3. Role-Play Real-Life Scenarios One of the best teaching tools? Practice. Take a few minutes and act out everyday situations together. Try these: 🎭 A friend wants to copy her homework 🎭 Someone makes her uncomfortable at school 🎭 She's asked to do something she doesn't want to do 🎭 She needs to ask for space, help, or privacy Let her practice saying: 👉 "No, thank you." 👉 "That doesn't feel right to me." 👉 "I need some space right now." 👉 "Please don't do that." Then talk it through: How did that feel? What was hard? What helped you feel strong? These mini rehearsals build real-world confidence. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Today, pay attention to moments when your daughter expresses a need, says no, or sets a limit—and support her. ✅ Say, "Thanks for telling me how you feel." ✅ Ask, "What do you need from me right now?" ✅ Or tell her, "It's okay to say no. I'll always respect your voice." And then—live that out. Because when your daughter knows she can speak up with you, she'll know she can speak up anywhere. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Hey dads! Welcome back to Dad Connections in 5, the podcast that gives you simple, real-life ways to connect more deeply with your daughter—in just five minutes or less. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about something every daughter will face—conflict—and how you can teach her to handle it constructively. From playground drama to social media misunderstandings to future workplace disagreements, conflict is a part of life. And how your daughter learns to navigate it—with calm, confidence, and respect—will shape her relationships, self-respect, and success for years to come. So let's break it down. I'll give you three practical strategies that you can start using with her today—plus a takeaway challenge that makes this lesson stick. Why Conflict Skills Matter Conflict isn't the problem—it's how we deal with it that makes the difference. If your daughter learns to handle disagreement by shutting down, yelling, or giving in just to avoid confrontation, she might: ❌ Feel unheard or resentful ❌ Lose confidence in her voice ❌ Avoid standing up for herself But if you help her learn to express herself clearly, listen actively, and stay calm, she'll: ✅ Build stronger relationships ✅ Earn respect from others ✅ Become a confident communicator And guess what? She'll be watching how you handle conflict, too. So let's make it count. Three Ways to Teach Constructive Conflict Skills 1. Teach the Power of "I" Statements Most conflict escalates when people feel blamed or attacked. Teaching your daughter to use "I" statements helps her express how she feels without pointing fingers. Instead of: ❌ "You never listen to me!" Coach her to say: ✅ "I feel frustrated when I'm not heard. Can we talk about it?" You can role-play this with her. Give her a scenario, and walk through what it might sound like to express her side without creating more tension. 2. Encourage Active Listening—Not Just Waiting to Speak Listening is half the battle in any conflict. Teach her to: ✅ Make eye contact ✅ Stay quiet while the other person talks ✅ Repeat back what she heard: "So, what you're saying is…" You can practice this at home, even with simple disagreements. Model it yourself when she brings you concerns. Show her what respectful listening looks like. 3. Show Her How to Stay Calm Under Pressure Conflict can trigger big emotions, and it's hard to respond well when those emotions take over. Help your daughter recognize when she's upset—and give her permission to pause. You can say: 👉 "It's okay to take a breath before you respond." 👉 "If you need space to calm down, that's not weakness—it's wisdom." You might even share how you handle your own frustrations, especially when you don't get it right. That vulnerability makes your lesson real. Quick Takeaways: Start Today! Here's your challenge: Today, teach your daughter one phrase or tip to use the next time she has a disagreement—whether it's with a sibling, a friend, or even with you. ✅ Practice an "I" statement. ✅ Model active listening in a real conversation. ✅ Talk about what it means to pause and stay calm. And remember, every conflict is a teaching opportunity. The goal isn't to avoid it—it's to help her handle it with grace, confidence, and strength. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

We want our daughters to grow into confident, capable, and independent young women—and that starts with giving them the tools to thrive in everyday life. But teaching life skills doesn't have to feel like a chore, for you or for her. It can be: ✅ A bonding activity ✅ A confidence builder ✅ A memory maker And when it's fun, she'll want to keep learning more. 3 Ways to Make Life Skills Fun and Engaging 1. Turn It Into a Mini-Challenge Take something simple—like cooking dinner, pumping gas, or sorting laundry—and turn it into a challenge. 💬 "Let's see who can fold the most shirts in two minutes." 💬 "You're in charge of dinner tonight—but I'll be your assistant chef!" 💬 "Let's create a $20 grocery list together and see what healthy meals we can make." This makes her feel empowered. She's not just helping—she's leading. And when you bring some friendly competition or creativity, she'll lean in instead of zoning out. 2. Use Real Life as a Classroom Life skills don't have to be "taught" in a sit-down lesson—they're everywhere. 🛒 Grocery store trip? Talk about comparing prices, reading labels, or budgeting. 🚗 Car ride? Teach her how to check the oil or change a tire. 🏦 Paying bills? Explain how to track expenses or save up for something important. The key is to involve her—not just tell her. Ask questions. Invite her to try. Let her mess up and learn from it. That's real growth. 3. Make It a Shared Project Want to teach organization, planning, or teamwork? Start a project together. ✅ Build a birdhouse ✅ Plan a weekend getaway ✅ Start a garden ✅ Set a savings goal for something fun Projects are a great way to sneak in multiple life skills while building something meaningful side-by-side. It becomes less about the lesson and more about the journey you take together. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Pick one life skill your daughter hasn't mastered yet—and teach it in a way that's fun. Maybe it's: 🎵 Cooking a meal while listening to her favorite playlist 🎯 Creating a savings goal for something she wants 🎮 Turning laundry into a timed "level-up" game Make it memorable. Make it fun. And make sure she knows: 💬 "I'm not just teaching you this because you need to know it. I'm teaching you because I believe in you." If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

Fatherhood doesn't come with a manual—but the journey is deeply rewarding, especially when you're intentional about connecting with your daughters. In a recent episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Wes Piatt and Chris Roness—two dedicated dads and founders of WeBus International—to dig deep into the realities, challenges, and incredible rewards of raising daughters. One of the main themes woven throughout this heartfelt episode is intentional presence. Both Wes and Chris reflect on their own meaningful moments with their daughters, highlighting how vital it is to be truly present. As Chris shares, "It's those moments where they come to me because dad's got the answer… it's all about being present with my kids." Wes echoes this commitment by intentionally setting aside daily time to let his daughters choose activities, stressing that, "Whatever they want to do, I'm going to be a part of it." The episode doesn't shy away from the hard parts either. Both guests open up about mistakes and moments of failure, offering reassurance that vulnerability and honest communication are essential. Chris tells a story about miscommunicating with his daughter about their schedule and how owning the mistake, genuinely apologizing, and learning from it turned it into a powerful teaching moment. Wes reinforces that failure is not only inevitable but also an opportunity for growth, both as a father and for teaching his daughters resilience. Another profound theme is connection among fathers. Wes shares his personal struggles during a challenging time and how reaching out to other dads led to the creation of WeBus—a supportive community where men can share experiences (not unsolicited advice) and lift each other up. Through this network, fathers form bonds, share practical solutions, and most importantly, realize they're not alone on this path. The episode wraps up with actionable wisdom: be present, cherish powerful moments, communicate openly, and seek connection—both with your children and other dads. As Wes and Chris emphasize, it's about being the man and the example you want your daughters to look up to. Whether you're looking for inspiration, a reminder that imperfection is part of the journey, or simply some practical dad-to-dad guidance, this episode is packed with genuine stories and strategies. Tune in to the "Dad and Daughter Connection" for insights that will help you become the dad your daughter needs—and maybe find a brotherhood along the way. Ready to listen? Find the episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com and take the next step on your fatherhood journey. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]: Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week. I love being able to reconnect with you, to talk with you, to be on this journey that we're both on together in raising our daughters and building those strong connections that we want to have with our daughters. One step at a time. Because none of us are thrown into fatherhood with that manual, per se. We have to learn it along the way. And it is so important to have strong connections with our daughters, and especially our daughters, because of that bond that happens between a father and a daughter and all of the research that shows the power of the relationship between the father and the daughter. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:36]: So every week, I love being able to talk with you, to walk with you on this path that you're on, but also introduce you to other dads that are doing their best to be the best dads they can be. And we got two great guests today. We've got Wes Pyatta and Chris Ronas are here. And we're gonna be talking to them not only about being fathers of daughters. Cause Wes has two daughters himself and Chris has three daughters. And we're also, though, going to talk about their new venture, their new business that they've been working on for a bit now that is called Webus International. And we're gonna be talking about that as well. So we'll learn a little bit more about that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]: So, Wes, Chris, thanks so much for joining us today. Wes Piatt [00:02:23]: Heck, yeah. Thanks for having us on. Chris Roness [00:02:25]: Yeah, man, thanks for having us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]: This is the dad and Daughter Connection. And I think one of the things that I'd love to ask you first is as you think about the relationships with your daughters, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughters and what made it so special? Wes Piatt [00:02:39]: Man, I had some pretty amazing moments with both of My daughters, they were born early and both in the NICU for a few months. And I remember there was specifically one moment with my daughter Joey where we had a rough time in the parking lot right before we went in and just kind of soaking in the extreme nature of everything we were dealing with and our first child and all this stuff. And I've got my hands in the little incubator and I'm trying to change her diaper on this little tiny, tiny human. I mean, she was the size of my hand. And the nurse walks over and goes, oh, let me show you how to do that with one hand. In that moment, I was so grateful for all the time that we had in the nicu, all the time that we were going to get in the nicu, because I felt like I got like a. You said we don't have a manual for being a. I felt like they gave me a manual on so many things. Wes Piatt [00:03:26]: I was in the NICU both with Joey and with June because June was also born early. And having that time going into the nicu, June and being actually excited about it, knowing she was going to be fine, and then knowing I was going to learn even more from these amazing nurses that were there for 20, 30, 40 years teaching me how to do all these little things that most dads don't get. It was an amazing, not necessarily like moment in time, but I guess like per se, but, but amazing time within their lives where I learned like, man, bad things can really lead to some pretty awesome stuff. Chris Roness [00:03:58]: Wow, dude, that's powerful, man. Dude, Chris, that's hard. You want me to just pick one? I've been blessed to have millions of them. And I think if there's a theme about any one of them, it started just like Wes was talking about. From the day they were born until even today, Even with my 12 year old who's doing the pre teen thing, it's those moments where they come to me because dad's got the answer, you know, they're coming to me as a sign of strength and all the things and. And to me it's feedback. To me, the second that I got my first daughter, the doctor handed her to me. He goes, $150 a month. Chris Roness [00:04:30]: And I was like, what is this? My bill? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, $150 a month. That's how much you need to put in the bank every month for this child. So that someday down the road, whether it's education or a wedding or something meaningful to them, you've got that Money set aside to give them a good quality life. But it was the awe of having this kid in my hand and still realizing it's so much more than that. It's so much more than that. And, and for the kids, like this 12 year old now who doesn't even know that I've been putting $150 a month towards her. You know what I mean? Like, it's not about some sort of material thing. It's those moments where, like we talked about that bond that we've had through all those little moments where they've come to dad because Dad's the answer. Chris Roness [00:05:12]: Even at 12, it's not exactly the same conversation. It's not a hug, it's not. Whatever. She loves Benson Boone now, man. Like, she just loves this dude. She loves to sing. She loves to sing his songs. And so at nighttime we connect around his videos. Chris Roness [00:05:27]: And that's my moment to just give her space so that she can say whatever she wants to say. And every single time that I provide that opportunity, she capitalizes on it and she'll say, hey, Dada, let's talk about this or let's talk about that. And she'll just start going and it's awesome. So to me, it's those special moments where they just, they need me. And for me, that same moment was recognizing that I had to be the best human, best man I could be because I've got three daughters and at the time, no sons, and now I have a son. But regardless, my thought was I need to be the best example of a man I can be for them so that someday they'll bring me home three awesome sons. Wes Piatt [00:06:01]: Word. That's it right there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]: So what I'm hearing both of you say, I mean outside of those first moments, is being intentional being intentional with your time, being intentional with the moments that you do have with your daughters. So talk to me about what are some intentional ways that now you've worked to or you're working on strengthening that bond with your daughters. Even during challenging times, man, I make. Wes Piatt [00:06:27]: Sure that every day we do something intentional together. I literally just posted this on my Instagram this morning about how I make sure every single day my phone is away and we're doing something that they want to do. What do you guys want to do? And Dad's coming along for the ride. Let's go do it. And it's not something I had pre planned or something I want to do or are going to lead to even a goal at the end of it. It's just Whatever they want to do, and I'm going to be a part of it. Chris Roness [00:06:51]: Yeah, that's good, Chris. One thing I didn't disclose that I should have is we actually had four daughters, but one of them, at 37 weeks, didn't make it. And that was a really hard time as a parent and as a husband. But also, at the time, I was a senior leader in the Air Force running a unit, and I had a lot going on. But what that child taught me in that moment was the power of a moment. And I realized I was constantly like, in a minute, kid, I got to finish this thing first, or I got to finish that thing, or, I'll be right there. Just give me one second. I got to finish up this thing. Chris Roness [00:07:22]: And it was always a thing that I always had to finish up because I was doing important work, right. As a dad, not realizing that the important work was right in front of me. And so now, as a result of that powerful lesson that I got from my daughter, Ava, was her name is. Her name was the power of a moment. So now, to me, being intentional is remembering that once this moment's gone, it's fleeting. Like I'm never going to get it back. So when my child comes to me with a picture that they've drawn, and I'm in the middle of 500 things that I feel are super important that have got to be done right now, I can catch myself and go, this is what's important. Show me this picture. Chris Roness [00:07:58]: Let's be intentional about this moment. Because once the moment's gone, you can't get it back. And I've been able to do that with everything. It totally has changed my perspective on everything, and I feel has made me a much better father because I'm much more present with my kids, with everything. I mean, now I'm involved in everything they do, and I don't want to miss moment for that only reason. And life has actually been so much better and more forward. And guess what? All those things that I thought were important, they weren't, and they still got done. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]: They definitely do get done. Even though at times in our minds we're like, oh, oh, no. You know, we gotta get it done. But I. I completely hear you there. And there's been many moments in my own life that that's definitely happened, and moments where, as you kind of said, you make the wrong decision and you look back later and you're like, ah, dang. You know, I shouldn't have done that. So I. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:42]: I guess one question that I would have is none always right. And then we're always going to make mistakes. We're not infallible. So what's a mistake that you've made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communications with your daughters? Chris Roness [00:08:59]: That's good. I got one just yesterday, a simple one. But we have a very busy schedule with all the kids activities. They're all, of course, doing something different. And I communicated to one of my daughters that today was going to be a day that she was going to ride the bus to go home with her brother while I took another kid to an appointment. And yesterday she thought was the day, not today. And so as I was picking them all up yesterday, she went and got on the bus instead of getting in the vehicle. And I had to send one of her sisters to get her. Chris Roness [00:09:31]: And her sister was a little fiery. Wes Piatt [00:09:32]: She's like, come on, you gotta go. Chris Roness [00:09:33]: Get off the bus. And she was. She's a very. She has a very big heart and wears her heart on her sleeve. And she just got to the vehicle just completely upset. Dad, you told me today was the day I had the option to go home. And on that I was like, okay, guess what? I confused you. I miscommunicated. Chris Roness [00:09:50]: And I just took the time to explain to her how I made the mistake and that I was going to own it and that we were going to move forward though, you know, hey, so this is on me. I told you about something, but the something that I told you about doesn't actually happen until tomorrow. And I wasn't strong enough in my communication about what we were doing today. And so I gave her genuine apology by saying the three things that go into a genuine apology. Hey, what I did wrong, right? That I'm genuinely sorry about it, and what I'm going to do about it in the future to make sure it doesn't happen again. Hey, I'm going to communicate better about what we're doing today. Then I'll go into what we're doing tomorrow, but I'll follow it back up with what we're doing today just so we don't make this mistake again. And the power of that conversation was she went from completely upset and hurt and emotionally distraught to just, okay, I'm good. Wes Piatt [00:10:35]: I can't come up with a single one. But I think for me, the biggest takeaway is what I do after I mess up. It's that I go back and I tell them I'm sorry. I explain what I did. I go through exactly what switch has talked About Chris just talked about that. It's. I'm not perfect and it's okay not to be perfect as long as you do these few things after you're not perfect and you learn from it and you get better from it and you move on from it and we grow from it. It's like, I want them when you talk about failure, they're super into gymnastics. Wes Piatt [00:11:07]: That's like their sport now. And. And we talk about failure constantly, how much we look forward to it and we can't wait for it. And when it does, it's opportunity to get better. And it's like there is no such thing as bad failure. And even when dad messes up, like, look, I've been around this earth for almost 40 years now, like, I'm still screwing up the most basic things and that's going to happen forever. And that's totally okay. I think that that's the most important thing. Wes Piatt [00:11:29]: And they know that failure is good and failure is okay as long as we learn from it and do it. What Chris was talking about in recovery, I guess you could say from the failure or whatever you want to call. Chris Roness [00:11:37]: It, we call it debrief in our family. Debrief what we learned. Wes Piatt [00:11:41]: Let's go. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: I mentioned that the two of you a organization called webus International. So talk to me about webus. What is it? And talk to me about those origin stories. What inspired you to start the organization and how did your role as dads influence the vision? Wes Piatt [00:12:00]: I've told this story now probably a dozen times and I've cried every single time. I'm going to do my best to hold it together because it is we bus is what has kept me alive. And there was a moment. I own a CrossFit gym, small business owner, my wife as a teacher and for context, I used to be a firefighter. So I was a full time firefighter before I opened up the CrossFit gym. And I was doing both for a little bit where I was traveling down, doing my shifts, coming back up, coaching all the classes, traveling down and doing the thing. And I had a call, I went on that made me decide like, oh, I'm actually going to follow this path instead of this one. And I really regretted that during COVID because my business was getting shut down, all my members were leaving and everything seemed like it was like, man, I just made so many bad choices up to this point. Wes Piatt [00:12:49]: Like, why? Also for context, me and my sister grew up with just a mom and she happened just so happened to be bipolar and have schizophrenic episodes. So we had quite the upbringing. And during COVID I was having a really hard time controlling my reactions, controlling just the simplest things would set me off. And I. And I was just so upset with all the choices I had made and where I put my family, kind of, in a sense. And I started to get nervous. And maybe, actually this was a bipolar beginning to show itself in me. And maybe I had what my mom had. Wes Piatt [00:13:24]: And at the time, we just had. We had one child, and we were about to have our other one. And I was thinking to myself, you know, if you off yourself, these kids won't remember you, and your wife can remarry. Find somebody who's not in the financial situation you're in. Find somebody who doesn't have these triggers that you do and doesn't have all of this background. And you can actually, actually, really, maybe your job was really just to bring these kids here and to peace out. And I was really considering it. And I was considering it so much so that I actually created a list of things that I had to do before I did the thing, because me and Switch were in the military. Wes Piatt [00:14:01]: I was in the Air Force as well for four years. And I was along with Switch, but I had quite a few friends who had committed suicide after getting out of the military. And that's what Switch does, is his other. This is where I usually start to get choked up a little bit with his other company that he has called. You Matter, and you Matter focuses on ending veteran suicide, which is obviously an epidemic that's happening around the world, and something that we need to work on and we are working on. But I digress. I was mad at every single one of them that did that because they didn't call me first and they didn't just go, hey, I'm struggling. I just wanted to let you know maybe you could help. Wes Piatt [00:14:36]: And so one of the things on my list that I had to do is I had to reach out to people and let them know I'm not doing good. This is where I'm at, just letting you know. And I was too nervous to do that with the people that were closest to me because I didn't want my life to feel different. I wanted to be able to go to my family and my staff and everybody else and for things to be like, hey, we're doing our best. Like, keep it going. You know, like, we rock and roll. And not for them to be like, oh, poor you, and how can I help you? And all that. I didn't want that. Wes Piatt [00:15:03]: So I reached out to a bunch of strangers on Instagram, a bunch of people that I kind of know, but don't really know in the CrossFit space, and just told them, like, hey, I'm struggling. I don't know if you're feeling the same, too, owning a CrossFit gym or being a CrossFit coach or any of that kind of stuff. And I just got back nothing. But, yes, I am struggling. This is tough. I've actually thought about doing that as well. And, like, I'm, like, I had multiple people go, thank you for reaching out to me, because I'm actually thinking about doing that. And this is just serendipitous. Wes Piatt [00:15:30]: This is amazing. This is happening. And we just started meeting on this app called Marco Polo that my wife was using, actually, with her college roommate friends to stay in touch. And it's a really cool app that you can send a FaceTime video to any, anybody, and they can respond with another FaceTime video whenever they have time. And there's a bunch of other cool stuff you can do with it. But I was like, hey, would you guys want a battle buddy check? Let's just check in on each other, like, once a week and just keep the momentum going. And that slowly turned into over a hundred dudes around the world that call themselves We Bus Dudes and talk vulnerably on this app called Marco Polo about their struggles. And. Wes Piatt [00:16:05]: And it's become an amazing thing, because right when we started it, we had one rule, and that rule was that you could not give advice. And when we say advice, objectively, what we mean that is something that you actually haven't experienced or been through yourself, but you feel you could maybe help somebody else out with. And this is what we call the bro advice. You call your buddy up. You're struggling with this thing. They've never been through it. They have no idea what you're going through, but they're like, oh, bro, here's what you're going to do. My cousin went through this thing, and here's the best way to fix it, and blah, blah, blah. Wes Piatt [00:16:32]: And you're just like, that's not what I want from you right now. What I want from you is just to listen and to hear me and to sympathize and empathize with me, and that's all I really need. And so we made one rule. We said you can only share experiences. So you, come on, share your experience you're going through. For example, I'm going nuts. I can't get my Girls to get dressed and eat breakfast and out of the house in time and to school in time without it being just an absolute nightmare. Anybody else experiencing this as well, and you'll have like 50 dudes that will come on there, all varying ages, all kids of all ages, all been through the gamut and all coming with experiences of how they solved it in completely different ways. Wes Piatt [00:17:12]: Ways. So now you have this experience where these people are getting to go, hey, yeah, here's how I did it. Here's how I did it. Here's how I did it. And then this guy just gets to go like, oh, maybe I'll use that. Maybe I'll use that. Maybe I'll use none of it. Maybe I'll use some of it. Wes Piatt [00:17:24]: And the idea is that they're going, checking in to see, like, hey, I remember going through that. Where are you at now? Because I remember where I was at. And they check in. And so we both started in my garage on the floor, literally thinking about killing myself to where it's at now where I. We just did our last we bus camp in South Dakota and just looking around at all the guys there and all the things we were doing to Mount Rushmore, it was just. How do you go from being at that point to being at that point and within a relatively short amount of time? And the answer to that is with the brotherhood. We bus is just straight dudes that want to be better humans to make this world a better place. And the only way that they're doing that is by just sharing their traumas and their experiences with each other and being vulnerable and being open. Wes Piatt [00:18:10]: And I'm very proud of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:12]: Can definitely tell, I guess in thinking about that and thinking about what you went from, from where you were to where you are today, and you think about the business that you've created. I know that webus emphasizes collaboration, connection. And I guess as you think about that and what you're learning from other dads in relation to your own fatherhood journey itself, how does that collaboration and connection that you're do, that you're building in the organization, align with the way that you're either raising your daughters to interact with you or interact with others. Wes Piatt [00:18:45]: It goes back to what Chris said earlier. We're trying to get dads to be the people they want their girls to marry. Chris Roness [00:18:51]: Yeah. We have a kind of a little mantra on the webus. We. We tell folks, get off the struggle bus and get on the we bus because we're helping the world be a better place. One dad at A time and the power of the shared experience concept organically. Like, it's not like we designed it to do what it's doing beyond that, but the secondary and tertiary effects of what's happened is you don't see any really heavy discuss about beliefs regarding faith or politics or anything like that. But that's not to say that those things don't come up. They come up through a shared experience. Chris Roness [00:19:22]: Hey, I'm going through something. I'm struggling with this thing I just saw, or I'm struggling with this direction I want to go with my faith. Does anybody have an experience with this? And then those folks will either break off and have a separate conversation on what we call a solo polo, or we even have topic rooms now, where, for example, we've got one called the workshop. And in the workshop, this is where dads have unique skills of handyman skills, whatever those might be. You can go in and go, hey, guys, I'm working on this today. Let me show you how I'm doing it in case you ever come across this, and vice versa. Maybe somebody is a dad now that didn't have a dad to show them how to fix a flat tire on a bicycle. Well, you could go to YouTube and look up that stuff. Chris Roness [00:20:00]: But the difference is on webus, you go to the workshop, you can go, hey, guys, I'm gonna fix this flat tire. And you've already got a group of guys that you're connected to that will not only walk you through that, but they'll walk you through how that connects to a life experience or a connection that you can have with your child by maybe walking your child through how you're doing that at the exact same time, things like that. And it's just really powerful because the other organic thing that we've discovered with this is that men are coming out of the woodwork to join us on we bus because of this shared experience. And one of the interesting things that happens right off the bat is a new dad. Well, he's just going through it and he'll listen to what the other dads are saying for a while first before he even says anything. And then that dude will come on and just let it all out. And you can watch them. You can watch them just as they're letting it out. Chris Roness [00:20:44]: And that becomes the beginning of the first step to how they're going to be a better dad. Because now they're open to gathering all this shared experience from everybody else and learning in a whole nuanced way that is not deliberate. It's not constructed, it's not academic. It is just life as it's happening in everybody's lives as we learn from each other. It's powerful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:05]: You know, in thinking about those experiences where you've seen dads unburden themselves and be able to share the things that they're going through, can you share a moment for each of you where your connection with another dad through webus had an impact on your own fatherhood journey? Wes Piatt [00:21:23]: Oh, my gosh, dude. So many. Every day there's something in there that we connect with with somebody. Like just the other day, I was connecting with Nick on CrossFit stuff and he tried his first CrossFit class and he was so nervous, and I was giving him all the ins and outs on how to do it and where to go and who to talk to and where not to stand and where to stand. And it's like a little like, insiders, insider. And that's what, you know, Chris was talking about with the. These groups that we have in these, like, breakout rooms. So you have like the main we bus and then all these breakout rooms that people can find their little niche in. Wes Piatt [00:21:53]: And when they get in that niche, they really get to work through whatever that little thing is that they're struggling with, with people that are more connected to that little thing too. Nick was really struggling just with wanting to improve his fitness a little bit more. And he just like, you know, I'm stuck at a wall. I don't know where to go from here. And there's like five dudes that came rushing in with, like, experience up the wazoo to be like, like, well, here's like 15 different things that you can do and choose what you want. We're here to support whatever way you need. That's rock and roll. Chris Roness [00:22:20]: Yeah. I'm telling you, there's like this deeper level. I can't point to one exactly, like, one particular thing because there's so many things that I've learned from all these guys across the gamut. I mean, when I started on Webus, I wasn't doing CrossFit, although I was familiar with the sport because we would do it when I was deployed in the military and I just retired from the military, had landed myself in a small town and was trying to find, like, we got spoiled in the military. Here's the gym, here's the everything you need right there on the base. And now I'm in this small town trying to find those same resources, and I couldn't find them anywhere. And I was able to go on here and talk to these guys that did CrossFit and go, hey, tell me some more. Now, I do it regularly, and I've learned that for me, that particular sport isn't something I do for the fitness. Chris Roness [00:22:59]: To me, fitness is the byproduct. I go to the gym for the community. But in that vein, like, one of the things that happens through these dialogues, as you start to learn more about these guys at a deeper level. And so Wes, we've known each other what, three years maybe? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:12]: Yeah, right. Chris Roness [00:23:13]: Well, check this out. I just learned. I was yesterday years old when I learned that Wes plays the drum. And it's all because we started a recent topic group called the Bandwagon, where guys that play musical instruments or just want to talk about the songs that they enjoy can get in that chat room and play music together or talk about music or whatever. And Wes is like, yeah, here's my trap set. I'm like, what, dude? You play the drums? Wes Piatt [00:23:33]: Like. Chris Roness [00:23:33]: Like, we've been very close. We've had very deep conversations, and I never knew this. Here's another example. One of the guys on weboss is a good friend of mine that I went through basic training with over 20, like almost 30 years ago. And me and this guy have talked regularly for 30 years. And it was not until he joined Webus that I learned he was a Batman fanatic. Had no idea. 30 years I knew the guy, had no idea. Chris Roness [00:23:55]: He loved Batman. And that's kind of what happens. You get into this level of understanding somebody just through shared experience on a different perspective or scale. And there's all these resources right there for you. If you just. One of the things we do is what we call rfi. Request for information. Hey, guys, I'm getting ready to make a decision. Chris Roness [00:24:11]: Has anybody dealt with this? And it's powerful. Wes Piatt [00:24:13]: Yeah, that's how I got my financial planner, actually. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]: As interacting with dads in this way and as you're listening and you're taking in all that they're experiencing, I know that you've got dads and non dads that are in the community that. But in talking with the dads, what are some of the challenges, the unique challenges that you're seeing that these dads are collectively having? And how is your organization working to either connect those dads together or help them to be able to work through those in different ways? What have you learned through this venture that you've been on? Chris Roness [00:24:49]: And I'll offer one right now. The number one thing that we see consistent is that dads feel like, they're doing it alone. They feel like they're in it alone, that they've got to be the strong horse for the family. They've got to push through. They've got to do all the things, and they can't just. Like what Wes was saying, like, they can't let those people know that they're going through a moment, or at least they think that, because they have to be the strong horse. And. And when they come into the we bus, we see that every single time. Chris Roness [00:25:17]: And I would offer that there's a byproduct of using the app that we use with Marco Polo that everybody has benefited from because they mention it. And that is, as dads, we want to be problem solvers right off the bat. That's our job. Hey, you got a problem? I heard my wife talk about this. I'm gonna go fix this. I heard my kid talk about this thing. I'm gonna go fix this thing. But especially as dads of daughters, you leave the video. Chris Roness [00:25:38]: Guess what? In order to listen to that video, you've got to literally sit there and watch it and listen. And the byproduct is we've all become much better listeners, and we're all present as a result of that. And I think that's one of the things that we all struggle with as dads is how not to just be problem solvers, but to be present and listening and to realize that we're not in it alone, that there are other dads going through it too. Wes Piatt [00:25:59]: Do. Chris Roness [00:25:59]: And. And we can all connect around nothing but just that singular thing of fatherhood. And it's just amazing. Wes Piatt [00:26:05]: Yeah. I mean, there's so many things. And I think this is why we created. We call them dojos, and they're these little breakout groups that we have. And we have dads that are going through divorces. We have dads that are thinking about getting a divorce and trying not to. We've got dads that are losing their job and trying to find a new job. We've got dads that are trying to get in shape. Wes Piatt [00:26:23]: We've got dads that have. Were in shape and now are trying to get back in shape. We've got dads that are trying to do everything. And so by creating these smaller group, one of the things that Chris really hammered on was Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the amount of people you can actually have in your life and actually communicate well with and make sure you're creating actual deep connections with. It's got to be small. So we Keep those groups relatively small, eight to 10 people max. And we keep the people that are in there experts. Like, we gotta have somebody in that group that's an expert in this thing in some way and can give you sound advice and help you out with where you really need it the most. Chris Roness [00:26:56]: And to piggyback on that a little bit, it's not just about the dad that's struggling. It's about the dad that's achieving high goals like Wes talked about. I mean, one of our dads started out as an alcoholic three years ago and weighed, like, almost 300 pounds. The dude has lost, like, 150 pounds, and now he's an Ironman athlete. Wes Piatt [00:27:11]: We call him 75 heart because he's gone through that so many times, and he's become such a different human being. It's insane. It's literally. It's like biggest loser transformation, but, like, in a healthy way now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:25]: I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I give you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as dads. You ready? Wes Piatt [00:27:33]: Yeah. Good. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Chris Roness [00:27:39]: Love. Wes Piatt [00:27:39]: I was going to ask if I could use loving kindness as one word, but yes, love. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Wes Piatt [00:27:48]: That it goes really fast and so be present. That's the only thing I found universally true. Chris Roness [00:27:53]: Yeah. It's the same as, hey, 18 years. Goes really quick. Capitalize on the moment. The power of that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:00]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love to do together? Wes Piatt [00:28:05]: Oh, my gosh. Going to the beach or going skateboarding. Anything that has to do with activity, like just being. We got a big trampoline out back. It's like 10 times a day. Can we go jump on the trampoline? You know, like, yeah, let's go. But anything physical activity wise, they just want to go do it. Chris Roness [00:28:18]: Yeah, it's the same with my daughters. They. They are all very active and. And very musically talented. One of the things that we all do together is we. We sing and play music together on our church youth group, and it's a blast. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]: If you could give your daughters one lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Wes Piatt [00:28:34]: You're not perfect. Life's not perfect, and that's okay. Chris Roness [00:28:37]: I would say choose the person that you want to be with and the life you want to have very carefully. Those will be the two most important choices you ever make in your life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:46]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad. Wes Piatt [00:28:51]: Oh, man. I would say that failure is okay. I've learned honestly that because, like, I've said that my whole life. Yeah, failure is great. You learn from it. You grew from it. Let's go. Hoorah. Wes Piatt [00:29:00]: You know, and then. But when you fail, you're really upset about it. You don't really learn from it. You don't really take it. But I've really learned that. No, guess what, bro? You're gonna fail hard no matter how much you prepare. And that's good as long as, like what we talked about before, you come back and repair it and do what you need to do. Chris Roness [00:29:16]: The greatest growth and connection happens when you step out of your comfort zone. Man, changing diapers, the way I grew up was a mom's job, but I got all into that. And the same thing with braiding hair and all the things is that big tough guy stuff. No, but man, the magic that happens with that. And that's where the connections are at and that's where the growth occurred. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:37]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Wes Piatt [00:29:46]: I wouldn't. I would just share experiences. Chris Roness [00:29:48]: The advice I'm going to give comes from a good friend of mine, Lindsay Ko, who lost his daughter to suicide. And I asked him what would he have done differently and he said, I would have been present more often. I would have just been present. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]: Well, Wes, Chris, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing what you are doing with your own daughters, but also what you're doing with Webus. And if people want to find out more about Webus, where should they go? Wes Piatt [00:30:11]: Www.webusint.com and fill out the interest interest form. You'll see it on the menu bar up top. And then our buddy Jeremy or Alan will reach out to you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:23]: Well, again, I just want to say thank you. Thank you both for all that you're doing to be able to connect dads with other dads, men with other men. It's so important. It's so important for men to have those connections in their life. And I really appreciate all the work that you're doing with that and thank you for sharing your own journeys with your daughters. And I wish you all the best. Wes Piatt [00:30:42]: Same to you, Chris. Thanks for doing what you do in this space and keeping it going for so long. I really appreciate it. Chris Roness [00:30:48]: Absolutely, dude. Keep staying awesome. Chris, we really appreciate this, man. And we look forward to seeing all the other videos that are coming after this one and the ones before for sure. That's a wrap for this episode of. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:58]: The dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Performer [00:31:28]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents Bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes. Musical Performer [00:31:58]: By just like a dynamite blast Calling. Musical Performer [00:32:03]: Astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to. Musical Performer [00:32:11]: Them. Musical Performer [00:32:15]: Be the best dad you can be. Musical Performer [00:32:20]: Be the best that you can be.

Parenting doesn't come with a manual, but that doesn't mean you're alone on the journey. In the recent episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Tia Slightham, creator of the Parenting With Purpose method and a coach to high-achieving parents. This insightful conversation dives deep into the challenges, growth, and opportunities both dads (and all parents) face when raising confident, emotionally secure daughters. One of the standout themes from the episode is the importance of breaking cycles—especially those rooted in our own upbringing. Tia shares how her father broke the cycles of abuse and alcoholism from his own childhood, emphasizing that while he didn't always have the resources or know-how, his willingness to try made a lasting impact. She encourages listeners that "breaking cycles is something I think we all have the power to do," reminding us that parenting is ultimately a learned skill. Tia explores different parenting styles—what she calls the "overpowering tiger," the "wet doormat," and her preferred "positive discipline parent." She describes how her own parents modeled these behaviors, and how she's forged a new path centered on connection, mutual respect, and discipline without punishment. For dads looking to build stronger relationships with their daughters, she recommends focusing less on forcing behaviors and more on connecting through empathy, listening, and presence. A practical tool Tia shares is "Golden Time"—spending 10 focused, device-free minutes a day doing an activity your child chooses. It's a simple but powerful strategy that helps rebuild connection, whether you're dealing with young children or teenagers. The episode also covers the struggles parents face with emotional connection and communication. Tia urges dads not to shy away from sharing their own experiences and emotions, showing that vulnerability can build empathy and trust. She advises parents to shift their language, replacing "if" statements with "when," to reduce power struggles and foster more respectful interactions. Ultimately, this podcast offers hope and actionable advice for any parent feeling overwhelmed, stuck in chaos, or disconnected from their kids. Tia's core message is clear: change starts with us—and it's never too late to build the relationship you want with your daughter. Ready for more stories, expert advice, and practical tips? Listen to the full episode to start building stronger bonds and raising confident, independent daughters! If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]: Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity. We have an opportunity to be able to up our game, to be able to help ourselves, to be those dads that we want to be and to be able to build those strong connections that we want to have with our own daughters. That, and I say that we have an opportunity, because we do. Because when you go into fatherhood, there is no set pathway. There's no manual, there's no set thing that you have to do to be the best dad you can ever be. But there are things that you can do to be successful and to be able to build solid relationships with your children to help them along the way. Those tools for your toolbox, per se, that you can have and take with you. And a lot of times you can learn from others. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]: You can learn from others, whether it's your neighbor, whether it's a friend, whether it's someone you don't even know. They can help you along the way by giving you some of the tidbits, some of the things that they've learned along the way to help you to become stronger as well. That's why this podcast exists. This podcast is here to help you, to give you some of those tools for your toolbox, to help you to be able to be the dad that you want to be. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests with different experiences that can provide you with some perspective and challenge you in some different ways, to be able to help you think about fatherhood in different ways as well. So you're going to meet fathers, mothers, and others that are here to be able to give you some resources. And today we got another great guest. Tia Slytum is with us today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]: And Tia is a creator of the Parenting With Purpose method and a coach of high achieving parents, and she works with parents to be able to help them to get through some of the challenging points, but also work in many different ways to be able to become those strong parents that you want to become. We're going to learn about the parenting with purpose method today, but we're also going to learn a little bit more about Tia and. And her own experience with her own father and some of the things that she's learned along the way. So I'm really excited to have her here. Tia, thanks so much for being here today. Tia Slightham [00:03:00]: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:02]: You know, I'm really excited to have you here today. And as I said, I love being able to start these conversations first, focusing on your own relationship with your father. And every relationship is unique. Every relationship is different. Some are positive, some are negative, Some are somewhere in between. I guess one of the questions that I'd love to start with is, as a daughter, what's one thing that your father did to help you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter? Tia Slightham [00:03:29]: Yeah, it's a really good question. I think when I look back at my childhood and then where I am today in the work I do in the line of, you know, my focus with parents and parenting and raising kids, a lot of what I learned from my parents, whether that be some positive, some negative, really shifted my mindset in the kind of parent I wanted to be and the kind of parent I wanted to help others be if they had the similar values and goals. And my. My dad had not a great upbringing, and I. One of the things I'm so passionate about is breaking cycles. And breaking cycles is something I think we all have the power to do. When you have that toolbox like you talked about in the beginning, and. And you have that skill set, because parenting is not intuitive. Tia Slightham [00:04:14]: It's a learned skill. Whether you are a dad, whether you have little kids, big kids, it's all a skill set, and everybody's capable of learning it, but you have to be taught that. And so when I think about my dad, unfortunately, and sadly for him, he was not taught that he didn't have role models that he needed to have. You know, he had abusive parents and alcoholic parents, and he never had that chance to be seen, heard, and understood. And what I love most about my dad is, although I still shifted much of my parenting to not mimic his parenting, he really broke the cycle of abuse. He broke the cycle of alcoholism. He broke a lot of cycles. And so when I think about how my dad helped me be seen, heard and really understood in the early years. Tia Slightham [00:05:03]: He wasn't great at that. He didn't know exactly how to do that. But as an overarching father, 100%, I'm very. And as an adult, our relationship is so close because he was able to have the strength to break the cycles in whatever way he could do. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:21]: Now there's other dads that are out there that may be in those vicious cycles that, you know, they grew up in, and they're trying to break them themselves. Talk to me a little bit about what you saw your dad doing to break those cycles, or you're. What you're seeing other parents doing to try to break the cycles. And what are some suggestions or things that you might put out there for other fathers that might help them to do the same? Tia Slightham [00:05:45]: Yeah. So one of the things I think it's really important to look at first is what exactly is our parenting style? Like, what is our style of parenting? And really, there are, like, three core parenting styles. I like to use my. My own terminology to help it stick into our brains, because I forgot what I had for lunch yesterday, and we all forget things. So let's try and remember these things. And so one of the parenting styles is what I refer to as the overpowering tiger. This is that authoritarian style. Whereas a parent, your kids need to listen to you because you said so. Tia Slightham [00:06:17]: You're the adult, you're the boss. They need to respect you no matter what. And they should just do it because. And unfortunately, that's the style of parent my dad was. My dad was that overpowering tiger, where we are listening because we don't want to know what happens if we don't listen. And so we listen out of fear. We listen out from control, which is what I didn't want to do as a parent. My mom would make up for my dad's parenting style of overpowering tiger by being what I refer to as the wet doormat. Tia Slightham [00:06:46]: This is that permissive parent who wants to set boundaries. And you want to show your kids how to be respectful and listen and cooperate, but you don't know how to hold and maintain what I call three Cs. Boundaries being super concrete, clear and consistent, and really learning to follow through with discipline and not punishment. And so I have these two different. This teeter tottering of parenting where we've got the overpowering tiger on one side and then the wet doormat trying to make up for the fact that the tiger is so overpowering. And both of those parenting styles are very confusing for kids. It doesn't show, you know, kids are born with two jobs. One is to please you, and one is to push boundaries until boundaries are found. Tia Slightham [00:07:27]: And unfortunately, if you're the overpowering tiger, your kids are only listening when you are overpowering them, because that's the boundary they've learned. Whereas if you're the wet doormat, they're not listening. They're pushing. They're pushing. They're pushing until you hit your breaking point and either give in, give them extra chances, or you then turn into that overpowering tiger. So either way, that's creating the cycles that parents most often want to break. And so the goal is really to become, you know, in my opinion, in my practice, that number three parenting style, which I recall to as the positive discipline parent. So you're really that mutual respect parent where our kids listen and they show us respect because we listen and we show them respect. Tia Slightham [00:08:12]: And that's really, really how you build a strong connection and bond so your kids can learn life's hard lessons, but in a way where they don't feel overpowered, they don't feel fearful, and they don't feel like they can walk all over you, because kids really do need a guide, a teacher, and a leader. And that's where we really want to work to kind of find that balance. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:31]: Talk to me about that a little bit further. Go a little bit deeper in regards to your own experience with that and what made you kind of develop that framework for. For others. What was it in your own childhood that made you decide that as you were developing this framework that you needed to develop or unpack that for yourself? Tia Slightham [00:08:52]: Yeah, I mean, I think about some kind of, you know, we create these core memories in our childhood. And I always say to parents, our actions and our words, what we role model today, they live with our kids forever. Like, we have such a huge impact on our kids. And it can either be positive or it can be negative. And I think about some of those core memories as a child, and yet I still have positive ones of both my parents, but the ones that really stick with you are those not so positive ones. And I can remember being really little and wetting the bed and really feeling so sad and so shameful and so afraid to have to, like, tiptoe downstairs in my nightie, sopping wet to try and get to my mom's side of the bed so that my dad wouldn't harp at me and make me feel terrible for wetting the bed. And no, no child needs to feel like that. No human needs to feel like that. Tia Slightham [00:09:47]: Because kids don't. You know, Jane Nelson of the founder of positive discipline, you know, always says this amazing quote, and it's kids do better when they feel better. So where do we get this crazy idea that we're going to make somebody feel worse to get them to do better? And if you think about it, like, when have we ever had a boss who just yells at you and screams at you and tells you how stupid you are and how dumb you are and how awful you've done? And then we say to ourselves, yeah, I'm going to work harder next time. I'm going to just show up. No, we, we feel squished under a rock. We feel it's debilitating. We don't build the confidence and skills to do better. And so as a parent, I knew I didn't want my kids to ever be afraid to come to me with anything. Tia Slightham [00:10:32]: I never wanted them to feel scared. I never wanted to them feel like I was making them feel stupid or shameful. And I wanted them to know that I'm always in their corner. And I think as a child, I never really knew that my dad was in my corner, even though I knew he loved me because of his parenting style. And that's not what he wanted to portray. It's just that's all he knew. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:56]: As you look at your father now, or have. I should have asked before. Your father is still alive. Okay. As you talk to your father now and he can see what you're doing with other parents, talk to me about conversations that you've had as you become an adult. In looking back at what he did as a father and what you're doing now and how those either connect or disconnect. Tia Slightham [00:11:22]: Yeah. So together, him and I haven't discussed a lot about my childhood. We've sort of just moved through as adults and built an amazing relationship. I'm gonna fly home and see him next week and play a couple rounds of golf with him and have lunch, which I'm really looking forward to. But what I noticed from my dad is he pays attention to what I'm doing. And when I see him with my boys, his grandsons, I can tell he knows where he, he wished he made changes and where he wished he had the support to make changes. Which is why I love what you're doing for dads out there. And I've left a five star review, so everybody else should go and do that as well. Tia Slightham [00:12:04]: Who's listening? Because dads and parents of all parents need support. And I think what's most Important when my dad sees the line of work I'm in and the success of the business I've buil is the sadness I think he has that he didn't have that support and he didn't have somebody show him what to do or how to be better. And I think he's worked hard to be better as a dad of adults and as a grandfather. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:28]: I appreciate you sharing that. Now, I mentioned that you have this method, and we've kind of been talking a little bit about it already as I looked at it and I kind of explored it myself. I know that you've guided a lot of different families. I think your website said over 5000 families through your parenting with purpose framework. Talk to me a little bit about the core principles beyond what we've already been talking about. And why do you think that they resonate so strongly with parents who feel struck, feel stuck in chaos? Tia Slightham [00:12:57]: Yeah, most parents, and this is what makes us so different and so successful in what we do, is most parents are looking for quick tips and tricks. They're scouring the Internet. They're googling, they're reading books. They're just. They're. They're doing small mini courses. They're just trying desperately to fix the problem and get their kids to listen, get them to cooperate, get them to be respectful. The challenge is it's not about getting our kids to do, it's about getting ourselves to do. Tia Slightham [00:13:25]: And really, the key is shifting what you're doing as a parent to then shift your child's behavior. So most of us live in this core struggle of forcing our kids, forcing our kids to listen, forcing them to cooperate, forcing them to do their homework, forcing them to get off their device, forcing them. And it's just this constant negative battle because we're basically telling our kids, you're the problem, you need to be fixed, and you're the reason I'm so upset. So an ability to connect with your kids in that moment is almost impossible because they are feeling the weight of this being all their issue. So we're not building confidence. We're not building security. We're not building trust. But what we do inside our program is we say, hey, you know what, kids? This isn't your problem. Tia Slightham [00:14:08]: This is our issue. I'm the adult. I need to learn how to do better. I need to learn how to use effective language. I need to learn how to discipline without punishment. So no more yelling, reminders, empty threats, taking things away, bribery, rewards. I need to learn how to. To solve my challenges in my parenting so that I can help you be the best you can be. Tia Slightham [00:14:31]: And I think when we're searching for quick tips and. And tips, we're still focusing on the child. And so it might work today, but it doesn't work tomorrow, or it might work with one child, it doesn't work with the other, and nothing's giving you lasting results. Because the root of the issue isn't your child's behavior. The root of your issue is your parenting, your current parenting st and what needs to be shifted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:51]: You know, one of the things that I've learned in talking to a lot of dads is dads want to support their kids, but sometimes struggle to connect emotionally. And I think we talked a little bit about some of your own experience with that, with your own father. What lessons from your method and working with parents can dads use to adapt to strengthen their own parenting approach? Tia Slightham [00:15:13]: Yeah, connection, I think, is like the biggest issue for parents and kids, whether it's sons, daughters, moms, dads. If we don't have a strong connection, we're really lost, and our kids are lost, and we're lost. And one of the tools that we use in our program, which I coined Golden Time, my son, when he was 4, actually named it Golden Time, and it's stuck since then. And you can call it whatever you want. And I'm going to actually give all your listeners a free copy to download and implement this, because sometimes we don't know where to start, especially when we're stuck in these really deep cycles. And it just feels like your kids are saying, I hate you. I don't want to be around you. You're the worst dad ever. Tia Slightham [00:15:50]: Like, you don't know. You don't get me. You don't understand. How would you know? And we feel almost trapped, like we're stuck in quicksand, and we don't know where to begin. And I want parents to know that you can begin with just 10 minutes a day. Like, 10 minutes a day can have a really big impact. Even five minutes a day can have a really big impact. And so I want parents to download this at the end of the episode and really start implementing. Tia Slightham [00:16:14]: It's a chance for you to connect with your kids without your devices. Yes, I know that feels tricky for all of us. But without your devices, really allowing your kids, whether you have young kids, young daughters to choose a fun activity, if they like to bake or they like to play dolls, or they like to color or do trucks or whatever it is they like to do, or for older kids, you know, being a mom of a teen to just sit and chat or to go for a walk or to do a TikTok dance with them, or to go get an ice cream cone. There are things you can do that are low pressure that will allow you to spend 5, 10, 15 minutes not talking about homework, not talking about the things they're not doing, not talking about the fact they didn't make their bed and do their chores. Because we need to get to a place where we can build a connection so you then can get them to do those other things. But if you don't start with a connection, it's a really big uphill battle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:05]: It definitely can be an uphill battle. Now, you emphasize raising confidence, emotionally secure kids. What does that look like in practice, especially for our daughters who are growing up into young women with their own voices? Tia Slightham [00:17:21]: I think that what you just said right there is the most important piece. They need to have their own voice. And if we are, if our parenting style is stuck in that permissive parenting or that authoritarian parenting and we're that tiger in that doormat, we're not allowing our kids to really have a voice. We're not creating a mutual respect environment. We're really creating, creating, you know, that hierarchy environment where we're kind of overpowering our kids and we want to, like I said, still be the guide, the teacher and the leader. But what's so important is, I think about it with my own two boys, you know, who are 14 and 16, both almost six feet tall. I'm only five, three, so they could really force me to do things physically, and I can't force them to do things. And we have to get to a place where our kids want to do the right thing and they feel good about doing the right thing. Tia Slightham [00:18:08]: And that intrinsic drive and motivation is what motivates, moves them to make great choices and be responsible and be independent and thrive. The challenge is, is if we are stuck yelling and reminding and power struggling. And if you don't do that, you're not going to have your phone and I'm going to take this away from you. They're never going to have a voice. And so I really encourage parents to remember that less is more. And a lot of times we start harping and nagging and harping and nagging, and I can tell you, your kids aren't listening to it. They have learned to tune you out and they're not listening. So I want you to really challenge yourself and ask yourself, am I actually listening to my kids or am I Trying to win an argument and nobody is winning. Tia Slightham [00:18:52]: In a power struggle, you think about it like a game of tug of war, you might win because you finally give in. I mean, you might win because you finally yell and get so loud that they say, okay, fine, I guess I better do this. Or they win because you get so exhausted that you give. In both those scenarios, nobody won. So if you are in power struggles with your kids, nobody's winning. So I challenge you to put your end of the rope down and to say this isn't about winning, less is more. And am I really listening to what my child needs here? It doesn't mean you're not going to have a voice and an opinion, but we do need to listen. And one of the things I can ask, you know, all of your listeners to kind of do a litmus check on is how often you use that most detrimental two letter word. Tia Slightham [00:19:32]: And no, it's not the word. No, it's actually the word. If we use the word if all day long. If you don't do this, this, if you don't knock that off, if you do that one more time, if you're not ready by this time, if you, you know I'm going to leave you. If you're not ready, I' going to pay your cell phone bill if you don't do this. We're just constantly on our kids with these ifs. If is the number one power struggle word. And as soon as you say the word, if your kids are saying they want to challenge me, sure, I'll come up against them, no problem. Tia Slightham [00:20:00]: So what we want to do is swap out the word if and simply use the word when. So instead of if you don't do your homework, no phone. When your homework is done, then you may use your phone. Instead of if your shoes aren't on, I'm leaving you. I know you're not leaving your child. So let's not use empty threats that aren't true. When your shoes are on, then we can go. So what we're doing is we're empowering, we're giving choice, we're letting them know that they, they have some control in this situation. Tia Slightham [00:20:24]: But we're not creating power struggles. We're actually creating mutual respect. So thinking about your language, less is more. Let's swap out if and use when for some simple things. You can start, you know, right away today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:35]: I love that. And it is a, I'm going to say an easy switch, but it might not be easy because it's like any change in your Routine. You get into those routines and. And it's going to be not always easy to change those routines, but you can slowly make those adjustments to be able to move in the right direction. Tia Slightham [00:20:55]: Yep. And just by listening to this, parents are going to all of a sudden catch themselves saying, oh, I just said if again, shoot. I just said if again, shoot. That's great. Because that awareness, we call those awareness flags. You can't make changes if you don't know where you are. And so the awareness is actually a huge step forward because you didn't have that before. And the more you keep catching yourself, the better you're gonna get at it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:17]: Now, I know even in my own experience in raising daughters and working with my spouse, there are definite challenges that mothers and daughters have. And I know you work with a lot of moms who, as your website says, are tired of guilt, yelling, and power struggles. What can dads do or what can dads learn from the struggles that moms are facing? And how can they step in as true partners? Tia Slightham [00:21:45]: I think a lot of times parents feel like if they're not completely aligned, they can't get the results they're looking for. Like, if my, for example, my husband wants to keep yelling and I don't, then I have to just keep on this path because they don't want to make changes. And our kids will never change if we both don't change. What I want you to really think about is that, that zero parents making change, zero results happen. One parent makes a change, and you see a change, you have results. And I always say, we're not going to force our kids and we're not going to force our partner. We have to role model it. So if you are struggling, I always say, ask for help. Tia Slightham [00:22:25]: Ask for help, whether that's from your partner, if your partner's able to help you, or an outside source and you do what you need to do. I see often there's the good cop, bad cop one, parents saying no to everything, and then the kids go to the other parent because the other parent is going to give in. And so it's just constant confusion for kids. And so I think as a partnership, it's important to see what are the dynamics in each of those relationships. Do we need outside help to help in this situation, or is this something we. We have the skill set to resolve? And one of the things I say to parents with that less is more kind of common theme is saying nothing is better than saying something. So if your partner is getting really heated, have a tag out System where she's like, I'm tagging out because less is more and I don't want to say something I regret. So I'm going to walk away and you can step in. Tia Slightham [00:23:14]: And I know it's really helpful if two parents are supporting one another to have a tagout system, because you don't have to solve each problem in that moment. You can step away, you can think about it, you can calm your nervous system, you can take deep breaths, and you can really think about how you want to respond to that situation versus staying in it. Heightening, on fire, sweating and reacting, because then we're gonna say something and do something we regret. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:41]: You know, sometimes dads worry about overstepping when their daughter's going through emotional challenges, either themselves or with their mom. How can a dad be present without overshadowing the experience that the daughter is in or overshadowing that mother daughter bond? Tia Slightham [00:24:00]: I think it's so important. I, I know there's sort of the stereotype that dads don't share their emotions as much. And I'm, I'm not put everybody in a shoebox by any means, but I think there's nothing better than a dad who's willing to just share a bit about their experience. What was it like when they grew up? What, what, when did they feel that same way that their child might be feeling in that moment? Maybe what lesson did they learn later in life? Because a lot of times it does happen to be the moms who are maybe dealing with some of the more emotional things, and it's not always the case, but I think there's no greater impact than having a male role model and a father figure be able to show emotion, have emotion, and let their kids know that emotions are okay from anybody. And I think that's something. When I was growing up and going back to my dad, never really had connected with me about emotions or never really connected with me about sadness or feelings. And I know he was very sad. I mean, any child who was raised that way is very sad. Tia Slightham [00:25:05]: And I think being open and honest to the best of our ability because it's not always easy to do in situations where our kids are feeling really upset helps them feel less alone versus us telling them how they should feel, because that often undermines their emotions versus us sharing our experience and our emotions to help build that connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]: You know, as I think about what you've been saying, a lot of times there are, as you said, the parents that are looking for the quick wins, they're looking for the Advice, they're looking for something that they can do right away. And parenting advice can. Overwhelming at times. If you could give dads just one or two practical, try this today, strategies from your framework, what would they be? Tia Slightham [00:25:46]: I think we've given a few of them today, for sure, that I want you to keep on that checklist for sure. Really thinking about your language, thinking about your parenting style and where you need to make some shift shifts, and really, for sure working on doing golden time with your kids. But I think when we look at kind of a framework and a method, it's a giant puzzle, and it's all the pieces of the puzzle that we really need to think about. And so, so often when parents say, my kids don't listen to me, to their homework after school, let's say, and it's a big battle and it takes me three hours, it's not the homework that's the issue. It's the things that came before the homework that were the issue. It was the way we were setting things up or not setting things up. And so my point in that is, is that we need to be as proactive as we possibly can as parents. And that means setting the stage for success and not reacting in the moment. Tia Slightham [00:26:38]: So if you're listening and you feel like you have bedtime challenges or listening challenges around doing homework or turning your device off or whatever the challenge area is, I want you to ask yourself, do I have a complete system and boundary in place, or am I just telling my kids what to do? So what we do typically is we say our boundaries, and we don't set our boundaries. So you say to your kids, you need to get ready. Then you, you know, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. And you think they speak English, they speak your language. Of course they understand. Why aren't they doing it? They're doing it on purpose. They're doing it to be. They're going into revenge mode. Tia Slightham [00:27:16]: They're purposely trying to make me angry. No, no, no. Every behavior has a deep rooted purpose. And it's never just to make you angry. It's our kids. Kids lashing out to try and get some of their needs met. Okay. Which is what one of the things we help parents do in our program with our behavior needs roadmap tool to get all those needs met. Tia Slightham [00:27:35]: But what I want you to think about in this moment for what you do know is if I'm telling my kids what to do all the time, I'm saying boundaries, and I'm not setting boundaries. And in order to set a boundary, you've got to follow three steps. The first step is you need to identify what your expectations are from start to finish. What exactly needs to happen, what's the time frame, what needs to be completed first, what's the order? Go through it in detail. Step two, you need to do what we call ttp, Teach, train and practice. So we're not just telling our kids, we're making checklists, we're using visual charts with younger kids with pictures and words, we're using timers, we're ensuring they know the plan and we practice it. We have them write the list with us, we go through it, we discuss it, we maybe role model it for younger kids to show them what might be correct or not correct so they can correct you and you can learn that they know what to do. And then the third step is your follow through always needs to be set up in advance to avoid it becoming punishment. Tia Slightham [00:28:34]: So what I mean is, if you tell your kids that they need to get ready in the morning before they use their phone and all of a sudden they're using their phone and you come downstairs and you say, that's it, no phone, you're done. You punish them because you got to overpower them and you got to decide what happened because you weren't happy happy with what they were doing. But on the flip side, if you have your expectations, you teach, train and practice and you set your follow through of when you choose to use your phone before your morning routine is completed. Then you're telling me you would like to break from your phone for the entire day and we'll try again tomorrow. Now, when they're on their phone before their morning routine is done, you don't need to be angry. You don't need to be mad. I'm really sorry you made that choice. It looks like you're taking a break from your phone and we'll try again tomorrow. Tia Slightham [00:29:21]: So the difference is your kids learn to make choices that work for them or don't work for them, instead of you making all of their problems your. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]: Problems as we finish up today. You've built a seven figure coaching brand around this work which shows the need is real and widespread. What motivates you the most in helping parents and what gives you hope for the next generation of daughters growing up today. Tia Slightham [00:29:48]: So my work is a true passion and I built the business just out of my love, really, that started with kids. I've always loved kids. I wanted to babysit from the time I was tiny I wanted to be a mom more than anything in the world. It is the best gift beyond. But my passion really comes from the fact that parenting can actually be really easy and it can be so enjoyable and it can be the best moments of your life and we can create the best moments for our kids lives. And we've worked with thousands of parents from around the world from various countries and they all come with common themes. They're crying, they're stressed, they're overwhelmed, they yell, they hate themselves for yelling, their kids don't listen, they wish they could build this connection and they don't know how. And where I feel most proud about the work we do is anybody who is committed to doing the work and allowing us to guide them. Tia Slightham [00:30:39]: We have a hundred percent success rate. So there isn't a way to quote unquote fail in parenting when you have the right steps, the right accountability and the right guidance. So for any parent who truly wants to master parenting so that you can resolve your own relationship challenges but also role model to your kids how to one day parent their own kids, if they choose to have kids, then there's. There's no downside in learning how to do these things and it works every single time. So hence our success in our company is if parents weren't successful they would let us know. And luckily everybody who joins and does the work leaves totally 180. They're happy. They can't believe it. Tia Slightham [00:31:20]: They thought nothing was going to work. The light switch has been flipped and their kids are going to bed early and they're staying in their beds and they're doing their homework and things they never thought possible. But it was because they were forcing their kids to try and make those changes. And of course our kids don't know how. We have to teach them and we have to show them the skills to do that. In joining our program we get to teach you exactly how to do that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:40]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection 6. I usually ask these to dads, but when I have moms on or other parents on, I always ask them questions and I'm going to ask them in a little bit different way because some are a little more dad centric. So I'm going to ask you as a mother as well and as a resource to dads, as you think about your own experience in being a parent, what's one word that describes your relationship with your sons? Tia Slightham [00:32:09]: I would say warmth. I think have two. It makes me teary eyed whenever I talk about Them two, like I said, six feet, massive men who hug me goodbye every day, tell me they love me, still want to snuggle, still want to share things with me. They're very independent. They do their own thing. They've got their friends, they're. They're not with me all the time, but when we're together, everything is very warm. And I want them to know that emotions and warmth are great, whether you're a male or a female. Tia Slightham [00:32:37]: And I think it's really important to try and build that warmth in young men as they grow up and also in young women. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:43]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received from my dad? Tia Slightham [00:32:49]: What I would say is the best advice is to never give up so you can accomplish, just like my dad did, by breaking the cycles. You can accomplish, you can create what you want to create, but you can't give up. And it doesn't mean it's going to be easy. It doesn't mean it's going to be perfect. It doesn't mean we're not going to have moments where we feel like we're failing. But by not giving up, it's the only way to see really what's possible. And my dad has definitely shown me that through his own life and his own accomplishments. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:19]: What's one activity that you and your sons love doing together? Tia Slightham [00:33:23]: Oh, we love to golf together. I picked up golf a few years ago just mainly because I have two boys and they were loving it. And I thought, where could I spend some serious time with my boys? And we all know if, you know, golfers, golf takes up a lot of time. Time. And we'll go out and we'll talk and we'll spend the afternoon together. We listen to music in the golf cart. If we're driving or we're walking, you end with a great meal. And the amount of connecting and conversation and openness that happens when you're out on the golf course is something I really cherish. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:55]: If you could give your son's one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Tia Slightham [00:33:59]: To do your best and not care what anybody else thinks. Thanks. Because your best is always enough. And your best is never to be looked down upon, even if you don't feel like you succeeded how you wanted to. But your best is all that anybody can ask for. But most importantly, it's all that you should ask for. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:18]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a mom? Tia Slightham [00:34:21]: Since becoming a mom, I guess what I've realized most is we can do anything and everything. I mean, we are amazing creatures as humans. It is fascinating to create kids. Kids, raise kids. See this fact, the fact that we create little human beings. And I think I'm pretty proud of the relationship I have with my boys. Although not perfect, nobody's perfect. And I don't want anybody to think that just because I'm a parenting coach and my boys are in my amazing doesn't mean that we don't have mistakes and that we're not perfect. Tia Slightham [00:34:52]: And so one thing I've learned is that we can really accomplish anything we want to accomplish. We can do a hell of a lot of amazing things, and it doesn't have to be perfect in order to be amazing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:01]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Tia Slightham [00:35:08]: I think the advice is to know that you're not going to create that with little random bits and pieces and to find somebody that can help you really break those cycles and shift that dynamic. If you're in a rut that you've been in for years. Most parents have been stuck in these challenges and these cycles for years. And to ask for help. Because when you ask for help, not only do things get better for you and your relationship with your own daughter, but you also role model to your kids that asking for help is a strength and that we are not perfect, that we also need to learn and we also need to grow. And I think there's no better way to empower your kids than to say, hey, I need some help with this and I'm going to get some help. Because this is something I don't have. All figures figured, completely figured out. Tia Slightham [00:35:56]: Because sometimes I think our kids think they're just the ones that don't have things figured out. And we have it all figured out. And I think you really build a bond and connection with your kids when you're willing to own up to your faults, ask for help and really empower by showcasing that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:08]: Now, if people want to find out more about your method or get more information about you, where should they go? Tia Slightham [00:36:14]: Yeah, I think the easiest way is to head over to Instagram. My Instagram handle is TIA Parenting Coach. So TIA Parenting Coach. And if you head over there, not only will you find tons of videos and tips and strategies and information, but most importantly, I've put together a really special battle free parenting bundle for all of your listeners. These are things that my highest paying clients get inside our program, but I want to give it to your listeners because Like I said, this is a passion project for me and I want to help as many parents as I can. So if they, if you head on over to Tia, parenting coach and DM us the word dads, we are going to give you access to two amazing tools and resources. So if you're a parent who's yelling power, struggling, not feeling connected to your daughter, you're feeling like you're losing that connection, time is running out. You need to figure this out. Tia Slightham [00:37:05]: Then you're going to want to head over there and DMS dads and you're going to have access to our Golden Time 5 ingredient 10 minutes a day tool that's going to turn things around so quickly as well as an opportunity to join my team or myself on a breakthrough call where we are going to connect with you personally on zoom, talk about your challenges, talk about where you're stuck, see what your goals are, what you want to do achieve, and really help set up a 90 day plan for you so you can start working towards that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:32]: Well, Tia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing to be able to support parents in so many different ways, for sharing your own experience with your own father, but also the experiences that you've had with other parents. Because the things that you've shared today are definitely things that all of us can do to be able to start that process of building stronger connections with our kids. And I just want to say thank you and I wish you all the best. Tia Slightham [00:37:59]: Thank you so much. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:00]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can. You can find all our [email protected] until next time, Keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Tia Slightham [00:38:31]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we get the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

If you're a dad looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter, the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast is a can't-miss listen. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, this episode features a heartfelt conversation with Alex Greenwood, father of an almost 17-year-old daughter, who opens up about the everyday realities, challenges, and rewards of being a present and engaged dad. The Power of "Hey, Dad" Moments One of the episode's core themes is the importance of creating and treasuring meaningful moments—sometimes in the simplest ways. Alex shares about his "hey dad" moments, where his daughter pops downstairs to sit and talk, checking in on him and sharing her world. These moments, whether brief or lasting for hours, have become the heartbeat of their connection. As Alex says, "these conversations can last anywhere from 20 minutes to two hours… and we talk about everything." These authentic check-ins remind us that genuine connection isn't built in grand gestures—it's nurtured in consistency and willingness to simply be available. Balancing Guidance and Independence Another central theme is the delicate balance between guiding and giving independence. Alex describes the challenge of working demanding hours, yet prioritizing availability for his daughter, whether it's teaching her to change windshield wiper fluid or sending a supportive text on a long workday. He emphasizes that, especially with teens, "availability" is key—not forcing connection, but being there when she seeks it. Intentional Parenting: Preparing for Life's Realities Alex and his wife have been intentional about preparing their daughter not for control, but for independence. They've communicated their evolving roles—from "bosses" when she was young, to "supervisors" during college, and eventually "consultants" and "friends." Through practical life lessons—whether teaching financial literacy through a make-your-own business project or discussing the realities of loss—they empower her with resilience, critical thinking, and empathy. Conversations that Matter The episode doesn't shy away from tough topics: discussing impermanence and loss, embracing vulnerability, and fostering trust through honest communication. Alex reminds fellow dads to "give yourself permission to be human" and always talk to your kids with respect. Listen to Grow as a Dad If you're seeking real-life stories, practical tips, and inspiration for meaningful father-daughter connections, tune in to this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Be reminded that being the dad your daughter needs is about showing up, growing together, and cherishing the journey—bumps, laughs, and all. Listen now at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and start building those memorable moments today. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Alex Greenwood [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Really excited to have you back again this week. Alex Greenwood [00:00:56]: As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We are working our tail off trying to build these amazing relationships that we want to have with our daughters one step at a time. And I'll tell you, it's not always going to be easy. There's going to be bumps in the roads and you have to be able to sometimes be humble and know if you make mistakes, you're going to pick yourself back up and keep going. And it's so important that not only that you know that, but it's so important that you're willing to learn, to grow and to listen, because there are so many individuals around us that are fathering in different ways, and there is no one right way to father. That's why this podcast exists, because every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that are fathering their children in different ways and they can bring some perspective for you to consider for yourself. Doesn't mean you're going to take everything that you're going to hear on every episode and turn it into something that you're going to use today. But it provides you with some tools for your toolbox to allow for you to be able to consider different things and maybe make some adjustments along the way that'll help you to be the dad that you want to be. Alex Greenwood [00:02:12]: This week we got another great guest. Alex Greenwood is with us, and Alex is the father of an almost 17 year old. He's. And I'm really excited to be able to have him here for him to share some of his own experiences as a father. Alex, thanks so much for being here today. Alex Greenwood [00:02:26]: Chris, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Alex Greenwood [00:02:28]: It is my pleasure. Really excited to be able to talk with you today and to. And to Delve a little bit deeper into your relationship with your daughter. And this podcast is all about connection. So I guess first and foremost, one of the things that I'd love to ask you is all of us are on are in a journey of trying to do what we can to be able to build meaningful moments. Meaningful moments that you and I can create with our, with our kids, that they can take with them. Think back to one of those meaningful moments. What is one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughter thus far and what made it so special? Alex Greenwood [00:03:04]: I am always just surprised is the wrong word. Amaze is too strong a word. But I'm always so energized by and I feel so wonderful. And it's a very simple thing, Chris. It's not some life changing, earth shattering thing, but I have a little. It's not really a man cave. It's just a place where I go, it's downstairs and I got a TV and I got a place to read and that kind of thing. And I go down there just because I have a job. Alex Greenwood [00:03:28]: I work in communications at a university. I have 12 hour days, I talk to people all day and I have a long commute. So I get to a point where when I finally get home, sometimes I just want to go down there and just recharge a little on my own. I'm one of those ambiverts. I mean, I'm not an introvert by any means, but I do have to charge the batteries a little bit. And sometimes I, I just go down and contemplate and all that. And my daughter, who, her name's Caroline and she's going to be 17 next year, but she's done this thing for a long time. And you know teenagers, I know you have kids that are a little older than that and you know how it is with them, especially in the teenage years, they just get to a point where it's not that they don't love you anymore or don't want to be around you, but they're doing what they're supposed to do. Alex Greenwood [00:04:05]: They're starting to kind of break away and become more independent. So sometimes I find myself missing her quite a bit, but I don't burden her with that. Right? I don't do, do that. That's not fair to her. Don't make her feel guilty for doing what she's supposed to do. So it's just interesting. She has this wonderful habit of every now and then popping downstairs, sitting in a chair across from me and saying, hey, dad. And I'm like, well, hey, kid, what's up? I call her kid. Alex Greenwood [00:04:29]: I've always called her kid. She's my only child. And she just asks me about how I'm doing. She's like, I just want to check in with you. How you doing? And what I realized, and I call these hey dads now, by the way, but I realize the hey dads are not really just her wanting to hear how I'm doing and. But it's also her way of saying a couple of things. One, I miss you, dad. And two, I want to tell you what's going on in my life. Alex Greenwood [00:04:53]: And that's what we do. These conversations can last anywhere from 20 minutes to two hours. And we talk about everything. And I mean everything. Books she's reading, the TV shows she likes music she loves. Taylor Swift, of course, The Mighty Chiefs, our football team here. You know, speaking of Taylor Swift, we'll talk about relationship. We'll talk about her grandparents. Alex Greenwood [00:05:14]: Chris it's how I feel like I might have actually been doing a pretty decent job as a dad, is that she enjoys speaking with me. And I'm not saying she happens. It doesn't happen every day, but it happens more than enough for me to feel very blessed. And I don't know if that sounds like anything all that interesting to folks, but for me, it's just about everything. Alex Greenwood [00:05:32]: No, it's so important, especially as they get older and if they're still checking in with you, still willing to talk to you, and especially as they get into those upper teen years. I'm not saying that to scare people, because it's not the same with every kid. And with some kids, teenage years can be easygoing, and then other kids could be harder. But if you have put the time and effort in. In raising your child through the years and built that solid relationship with them along the way, them coming back to you and being willing to continue talking to you, being willing, engage with you, and keeping you as a part of their world is so important. Now, you talked about the fact that you work a ways away from home, so you're balancing a lot. You're balancing going to work and coming home and trying to still maintain that connection with her and keeping that balance. So talk to me about balance. Alex Greenwood [00:06:30]: And how do you balance not only all of the things that you're trying to do, but how do you also balance guiding your daughter while also giving her that independence that you want her to have to be able to grow into the person that she's become becoming? Alex Greenwood [00:06:42]: It's a Real balancing act. And first of all, I'm an older Dad. I was 40 when she was born and so I'm not as spry as I used to. I take care of myself. I work out. My days are averaging 12 hours because I drive about 82 miles each way four days a week to work. I get one work from home day which I can usually take if you put in a 10 hour workday, that's about a 12, 12 and a half hour workday. And when I, by the time I get home I'm pretty tired. Alex Greenwood [00:07:06]: Yet I still manage to. I run a couple of my own podcasts, I write a substack column, I'm working on another book. I find time to do a lot of stuff. But the main thing is though is to develop that availability to my daughter when she, so that she can come talk to me anytime or she can text me or sometimes just, just a connection on texting. She started her first job this summer and she's, she's just loving it. She's loving to be able to raise her own money and buy the things she wants to buy and, and I've been so proud of her about that. And what's interesting is like yesterday, you know, today's as we record this Chris, today's their first day of school for junior year in high school and she's got a hand me down car I gave her. It's 11 year old car and she loves it and she takes care of it. Alex Greenwood [00:07:50]: And I showed her how to. Yesterday I showed her how to change the wall, the windshield wiper fluid. It's finding moments like that where it may not be all day, it may just be touches like that. A good text and I'll text her. I'm not gonna lie. I text her sometimes and I just say, hey kid, I love you. I hope you hope you're having a great day. Or if I have to work, particularly Thursday, it's going to be about a 15, 16 hour day. Alex Greenwood [00:08:11]: I am not going to see her Thursday night. I will text her at some point, maybe a goofy picture of me at work and just say thinking about you. Hope everything's going great. So for me it's about being available and understanding that particularly at this age where my kid is at least I have to be available to her when she feels that need to connect with me. And that's okay. That really is okay. Because when you think back to when your kids were so little, I still remember my kid coming up to me and saying she's four, will you play with me. And I was running my own business back then. Alex Greenwood [00:08:43]: I was working a lot of hours then too. But I did have the wherewithal to know because I had a. My dad didn't necessarily play with us all that much. But I realized this is important to this kid. She doesn't have any siblings. I'm here. Let's do that. So that's how it evolves, I think for me, I don't know if I answered your question very effectively, but it's availability. Alex Greenwood [00:09:01]: It's those touches. No matter how busy you get, remember the one reason you are working so hard is to provide for her. And that's what I'm doing. And she plans on attending the university where I work. And she's going to get a nice break on her tuition. So it's worth it for me when I'm driving all that way. And I miss her a little bit more than I'd like to, knowing that one, I'll see her a lot more when she comes to university here. I'll go to lunch with her at least once a week. Alex Greenwood [00:09:25]: I told her that. And two, it'll save her the burden of worrying about student loans too much. Alex Greenwood [00:09:30]: You're lucky because I work in higher ed as well and neither of my daughters want to come to the university where I go to where I work. So. So they're not getting the tuition benefit that your daughter's getting. So I say that in jest, but it's great to be able to have her be. To take that advantage of that. Not only for her, but really for you too, because it again, allows for you to keep that connection. Alex Greenwood [00:09:51]: I know she's an extraordinarily pragmatic person and she's so different from her mother and I, which is. I'm so glad she's a jock. She's a talented athlete. She's also makes like a 3.8 on average. She's been accepted into an accelerated medical professionals program. She wants to be a nurse. She knows who she is and she's a kind person and pragmatic and also understands that money doesn't grow on trees. She's an only child being raised by her mother, who's an only child. Alex Greenwood [00:10:17]: I was one of four, but I was kind of the middle. And I think that one reason our daughter's like that is she was raised by two adults and we never talked baby talk to her. We never talked down to her. We talked to her like a little human. We didn't talk to her like an adult, but we talked to her like a little human, you know what I mean? And she's always been extraordinarily verbal and had good verbal skills, which has impressed people. And I think another thing she learned, too, her old man was an old politician. So I taught her, like when she was about 8, how to shake hands with people. And I said, you extend your hand, you look them in the eye, and you use their name and you say, chris, it is lovely to meet you. Alex Greenwood [00:10:51]: I'm Caroline, and I've seen her do this. Speaking of my dad, we lost my dad in January and we had to go to Oklahoma for the funeral. And she met all these extended family she didn't really know. Second cousins, third cousins, uncles, aunts, great aunts, you know, all those folks that. You know what I mean? You're a kid, you have no idea who they are. And she did that without fail. And I can't tell you how many of my cousins came up and said, good Lord, that young lady, she just walks right up and shakes your hand, looks you in the eye. And I'm so proud of something like that, that. Alex Greenwood [00:11:20]: Because that's a skill she can use. When I say it's a skill, it's a skill, though, that is indicative of somebody who is a young person who is confident and wants to engage. And I just couldn't be happier with that. Alex Greenwood [00:11:32]: It's such a great skill to be able to have, especially going into a helping profession where you're going to be having to interact with so many different people. And it's definitely a skill that all of us should work to help our kids to be able to is making those connections with others and building those intentional connections with others. Speaking of intentionality, talk to me about what you do to intentionally let your daughter know that she is being valued and heard. Alex Greenwood [00:12:01]: Well, if I could, I'll take a step back and tell you a little bit about how my wife and I have been parenting Caroline. And one of the things my wife, Stephanie and I decided early on was that parenting isn't about control. It's about preparing your child to stand on her own. And again, I'm an older parent. I am not going to be around, likely for 60 more years, for sure. 50, doubt it. 40, maybe. But the point being, a lot of folks whose parents are younger, they're going to have more time with, God willing. Alex Greenwood [00:12:27]: So I decided early on we decided that parenting isn't about control. It's about repairing your child to stand on her own. And so we told Caroline from the time she was very little that for the first part of her life. Your mom and I are your boss now. When you get a little older and you get into college, we're not necessarily your boss. We're more like your supervisor. We're here if you need us, but we still control the purse strings. You know, we have your paycheck, so to speak, and all that, and we expect you to do certain things, but we're not watching you every minute of the day, telling you what you can, can't do, what to eat and all that kind of thing like you do with a baby or a little, little kid. Alex Greenwood [00:12:57]: So college, we hope to be like her supervisors, still keeping an eye on her, but letting her take the lead. So then when she graduates and gets a job, we want to become her consultants. And hopefully, as life goes on, we'll be blessed to be her friends from that point. So along that way, we've tried to her with some core values. Respect for herself and others. Curiosity and critical thinking are huge with us. Kindness and resilience. She's a very talented, very strong athlete. Alex Greenwood [00:13:24]: But she's also realizing as she gets older, she probably isn't going to walk onto the university volleyball team. She's good, but she's probably not going to do that. And she's fine with it. She knows how the world works in that regard, and she doesn't take it too hard. And it seems to be working so far, pretty well, this way of raising her and watching her grow into what I believe is a thoughtful, capable young adult who lives those values in her own way. And that's just been one of the greatest privileges of my life, is to realize that. So that's some of the things we've done to get her ready for life and for her to understand what we expect of her. I'll just tell you one more little quick anecdote that makes me very proud of her. Alex Greenwood [00:14:02]: She'd be so embarrassed if she knew I was talking about her and telling everybody this stuff, but I'm proud of her. And she had a friend in elementary school, a little boy, and he had an arm that didn't quite work right, and he was a little awkward. And she would tell us about him and how he. Nobody would sit with him at lunch, so she would sit with him at lunch, and then some other kids started pushing him around, tried to beat him up, and she just jumped right in the middle of it all and said, back off, you're not doing this. And I'm just. That, that right there, that kind of empathy and that kind of kindness look at the world we live in. I mean, we need people like that. We need generations of people who will step up and say, that's not right. Alex Greenwood [00:14:37]: And so that's, that's the instruction we've given. Because again, I hark back to this. Again, I don't like to sound morbid, like I'm going to die tomorrow, God forbid, but I'm not going to be there to protect her forever. And so I like the idea that she's confident and hopefully she'll find a mate who will be supportive of her and accent that and accentuate that and have family of her own where she can pass those values on. That's the most important thing to me. Alex Greenwood [00:15:03]: All of us have to have those type of conversations, whether your child's an only child or they have siblings that are going to be there, because you never know. You never know what will happen. And you need to have those kind of meaningful conversations. So talk to me about how you and your wife have been preparing her. And if a father is hearing this and says, you know, we haven't had any of these conversations, but I feel like we should start some of these conversations and start preparing our own child for that. Where should someone start? Alex Greenwood [00:15:32]: Well, I could give you a practical thing. Would that work for you? One thing during the pandemic. So that would have put her. What was that about three or four years ago, she wanted to start her own mail order era earring business. She was going to make her own earrings and sell them. And long story short, we thought, this is a teachable moment here. Let's teach her about how commerce works, about how that is. And she's like, mom, Dad, I know how to make these. Alex Greenwood [00:15:54]: And she's made some stuff. They're kind of nice earrings. And we said, look, you need capital, though, to, to buy more stuff, to make more earrings and to market these earrings on your website and all that. She goes, yeah. And she said, well, you give me the money. I said, well, no, I won't give you the money, but your mother and I will invest in you. So we set this whole thing up and we, we even had her draw up a stock certificate for us that we had stock in her company. Forgive me, I forget the name of the company, but, and get this, she got really excited. Alex Greenwood [00:16:21]: We taught her what that meant, what investing meant. And then when the pandemic started to let up, there's a local farmer's market and we, we applied to get her a booth at the local farm. So every Saturday, she'd go down there and sell these things. And she would pay us back out of what she earned for the materials she bought. Of course, we put that money in her college fund, but she doesn't know that. Don't tell her. But anyway, we taught her how to do that. And so that was a lesson we taught her. Alex Greenwood [00:16:45]: So now she has a kind of understanding how investing works and how. Kind of an understanding how stocks and bonds kind of work. We try to explain that to her, but also what we're teaching her are other financial lessons. Okay, I need her to understand how money works. And having a job, by the way, has been very instructive of that. She's had her first job and she gets it. And she understands taxes and the anguish of taxes. But I try to explain to her that taxes are kind of the price you pay to live in a civilized country. Alex Greenwood [00:17:10]: You're not going to always want to pay them. You're not going to love them. Sometimes they're going to be too high, sometimes they're going to be whatever. But they're important part of making the country what it is. And so she understands that. So we try to teach her about that and let her understand a credit card, what those are and how dangerous and treacherous those can be. We try to let her know, too, that just, you know, she. You know the old joke about, you know, you hear this all the time, oh, well, I must have more money. Alex Greenwood [00:17:32]: I still have checks, but they don't even use checks anymore, so that's not even useful. But we teach her those kinds of practices, practical lessons, how to change a tire, what to do if you feel like if you're out in the car and you feel threatened by somebody, use your phone, find the nearest police station or the nearest public place. Just little things like that. But before anybody thinks I'm some kind of weirdo who just constantly tells her everything's awful in the world, I don't. But I want to prepare her for the fact that not everybody is always going to have your best interests at heart, that you got to pay attention, keep, as I've said to her many times, keep your head on a swivel, pay attention to your surroundings. Those kind of little lessons, I think, have helped to make her as confident as she is and is helping to make her resilient and confident. And I think she doesn't fear the world. I think she's excited to get out there and see the world. Alex Greenwood [00:18:18]: And I think a lot of that is that we didn't baby her. She understood that she had to work to move forward in the world. And that doesn't mean we don't spoil her a little bit. Of course we do. We adore her. She's our child. But we try to make sure she understands those basic things. It's really not some kind of magic formula. Alex Greenwood [00:18:32]: It's just something that seems to be working for us to do these kinds of practical. Alex Greenwood [00:18:37]: I love that because I think, you know, those practical things and getting her to be able to understand it in that way is something that she's going to always remember and it's something that she will take with her no matter where she goes. So it is definitely something that I think others can also put into action and try for themselves. Now, you talked about not being morose, and you talked about the fact that you may be here for 30, 40 more years, but then at some point you are going to pass on. And that's not always an easy conversation to have with a child is to talk about the fact that all of us are mortal. We're not all going to be here forever. And there's always that first time where they impact death for the first time. So talk to me about beyond the practical nature of preparing her to stand on her own, having those conversations that are hard. And give me some examples of how you've had those type of conversations with your daughter and how you started those and how you continue those. Alex Greenwood [00:19:34]: Well, as I mentioned, I lost my dad unexpectedly. He was a distracted driver of injuries from that event eventually killed him. And so we knew he wasn't doing great for a few weeks. And my daughter and her mother, I couldn't get away from work. I'd seen him on my own, but they went down to Oklahoma to see him. And he was alert and talking to her and. And she came back and I. She was quiet about it. Alex Greenwood [00:19:57]: And she said, dad, I. I don't know how pop's doing. I said, he's not doing great, kid, but it's important to him that you came down there to see him. And I didn't broach. I didn't have to. I think she intuited that he was not doing so great. And then he got Covid. That was the end. Alex Greenwood [00:20:12]: He couldn't fight Covid after that. The point being, when we lost him, I found out I was at work and I had to drive 85 miles before I could get home and tell her. And I came home and tell her and she just. She fell apart. But it was not the first death she had experienced. One of her best friends was killed in A car wreck when she was about 8 years old, 9 years old. So she understands the impermanence of life. She understood it unfortunately, pretty early, but. Alex Greenwood [00:20:34]: And she cared about her friend, don't get me wrong, but to lose your papa, your grandfather. I think that I could see a change in her. And I hope this doesn't sound strange, Chris, but, you know, I mentioned going to the funeral and being very mature, and I was. I'm not gonna lie, I wasn't. I was a wreck. And I've been the eulogist at several family things, as you could probably tell. I don't have a problem talking, but I couldn't do it with my dad. And I wrote up a little essay and I asked her, would it be okay if you read it? And I said, you can feel free to say no, it's a lot of pressure to put on you, but if you could get up in front of everybody and read it. Alex Greenwood [00:21:06]: She didn't blink. She says, I'll do it, dad. And she got it and read it and she did a beautiful job. She held it together. And when she was walking to sit down, some weird was like. It was like at a concert, somebody said something like, bravo, young lady, or really well done or something, you know, just called that out to her. And I realized that she really had. In just those few short weeks since he was injured, I saw her grow up a little bit and realized the. Alex Greenwood [00:21:30]: About that impermanence. And so we've had regular discussions about when her mother and I are gone. She asked me the other day, she said, dad, it's occurred to me that, you know, I'm getting ready to go to college in a couple of years. And I know it's not my business to know all about the family finances at this point, but how are we going to pay for that? I know that I'll get your tuition break and all that, but what about extras? Will we be able to afford for me to have a dorm room? And, you know, she's starting to ask these questions and she doesn't ask them out of any kind of other thing than she's starting to realize I'm not a kid anymore. I'm going to be making a transition into a different part of my life soonish. And I think the fact that we've never sugarcoated stuff because she'd asked me when she was a kid, what happens when we die. I said, I don't know, I don't know. She says, what about religion? I said, if religion helps you, absolutely. Alex Greenwood [00:22:17]: I went through a phase where the family. We went to church and I was an elder in my church. I don't go anymore. It's not something I'm all that interested in anymore. But I told her, go anytime or I'll take you. And she would go with her friends. I don't know if it made much of an impression on her either. And I could hear religious people out there groaning. Alex Greenwood [00:22:32]: But it's like, you know, I can't force her. When I was a kid, I was kind of forced to go to church and I hated it. And I just told her, I'm not going to force you to do that, but I'm going to definitely expose you to it. I want you to see it, I want you to feel it. So I guess what I'm trying to say here, Chris, and again, pardon me for just going on, but is just that we tried to offer her the opportunity to experience things. We rarely say no to something unless it could be dangerous. We let her meet people, we let her go do things. We try to answer her questions. Alex Greenwood [00:22:59]: But you remember what I said earlier, We've always just kind of talked to her a lot, like a little person. Well, we just feel like we're paying her the compliment of her intellect and her personhood to just tell it straight the way we know it. I don't get, you know, brusque about it or anything like that. And I, I don't get all worked up about it. And it seems to work for us. It's just, it's just honesty and being candid. If I were to grow up again, I would appreciate straight talk to my folks. Alex Greenwood [00:23:20]: And so many of our folks didn't have those type of conversations with us. So I think our generation are definitely doing a lot better than our own parents did or their parents did before them. And that's a broad generalization because some of our parents did a great job and continue to do a great job if they're still in our lives, in preparing for the inevitability of life and. But what I'm hearing you say, Alex, is we can do even better. And that the more that we can prepare our kids in a non morose way, the better they're going to be able to prepare for it themselves and stand alone or stand together in that time. That is challenging. Alex Greenwood [00:24:02]: Chris, I really do believe that this has also made her appreciate the moments that she has with her mother and I and her grandparents, her living grandparents. She has said to me that all the time we've done certain things, gone on trips or some Things have happened. And she said, I'm going to. Basically said, I'm going to try to hold on to this. I want to remember this. So I think we've managed accidentally through all of this to set a stage for her to say, this is your journey on this earth, we're here to help, or your consultants, et cetera. We're going to be here for a while and then it's on you to do this. But I appreciate that she has picked up on the fact that the impermanence is a factor. Alex Greenwood [00:24:35]: And I've always told her I've done a lot of stuff in my life. Her mother's very successful in what she's done. I failed more than I succeeded. I have. I could bore you with all these things I've tried in my life that I completely failed at. But she knows about most of it and she's told me before. She says, I just love dad. That you tried, that you're out there. Alex Greenwood [00:24:51]: I said, I was never picked for the ball team. If I got to play, I was on the C team. I was the Bad News Bears team and I wasn't even any good. But the point was I tried. Did you play T ball and Little League at all? I always got money. Ghost spirited player at the end of every season, which is not mvp, folks. And I told her, you gotta try, kid. I always tell her that you gotta get out there. Alex Greenwood [00:25:11]: And throughout her life I've just said, what's it gonna hurt you to try? Alex Greenwood [00:25:15]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions that delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Alex Greenwood [00:25:23]: Sure. Alex Greenwood [00:25:24]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Alex Greenwood [00:25:28]: Trust. Alex Greenwood [00:25:29]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Alex Greenwood [00:25:33]: Oh, wow, that's a tough one, Chris. I think the best dad advice I ever got was with my uncle. And he just, he was like a kindly favorite uncle type. He was just like. He basically said, don't talk down to your kid. Basically because he was my, one of my uncles who I adored and, and he, he never talked down to me. And I always remembered when Uncle Robert talked to me, I always felt special. And I was one of 22 grandchildren. Alex Greenwood [00:25:55]: But I always felt like Uncle Robert thought I was the only person in the room when he talked to me. So that's the best advice was don't talk down to your kid. Make them feel good. Look them in the eye, talk to them. Alex Greenwood [00:26:03]: What's one Activity that you and your daughter love doing together. Alex Greenwood [00:26:06]: We used to love, when she was little, we'd go to, like, Starbucks. I'd get her a chocolate milk and a cake pop. And now that's moved up to, like, going to get a cheeseburger. I love just going to lunch with her, just she and I, and just doing more of that. Hey, dad, more of that talking. I just love doing that with her. Just, just love it. Alex Greenwood [00:26:21]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Alex Greenwood [00:26:26]: In the great casino of life, don't put all your chips in the center of the table and go all in in your twenties, you'll regret it. Alex Greenwood [00:26:32]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Alex Greenwood [00:26:36]: You know that movie Jack Nicholson did years ago, and there's that great line, and he says, you make me want to be a better man. Something like that. Before I met her mother. Her mother and I've been together, all told, about 20 years. And I had a lot of, of relationships that didn't work real well. Not until then, anyway. The point being, I don't think I knew how to be. Don't get me wrong, I was a good person, but I don't think I met my capacity or my potential for kindness. Alex Greenwood [00:27:04]: I think I got into a bit where I felt like every time I was kind to somebody that took advantage of me. So I kind of decided, well, maybe that's not what to do. And my wife was the first person to kind of start to peel away that veneer. And then, man, the moment I'm standing behind my wife while they did the C section, I lifted my baby out of there. It all. I changed. I know that's so cliche. Everybody says that, but I, Chris, I did. Alex Greenwood [00:27:25]: I changed so, so much when I was the first one to hold her. And she has made me a better man. Caroline, my daughter has. She has absolutely done that. I don't want to do anything that she would be disappointed in me in. Alex Greenwood [00:27:38]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Alex Greenwood [00:27:46]: Guys, don't be too hard on yourself. Chris said this early on, we're going to make mistakes. We're going to say dumb things. We're going to be tired and cranky. But here's the thing. You're not going to believe this, but I, I, well, I don't believe in corporal punishment first, but that's, that's not a big deal these days. I hope I've Never really even raised my voice at my daughter. I don't yell at her when I'm disappointed in her, I tell her. Alex Greenwood [00:28:05]: But there's been moments when I've been sharp with her here and there. So few moments, by the way, that I still remember each one of them, like, just a handful. And I think you've got to give yourself permission to be human to your daughter and to your kid to apologize when you're sharp with them and say, hey, I just had a bad day. I was tired. I. And without fail, every time I've done that, those few times in my life where I've been cross with her or sharp with her, she's like, dad, it's all right, man. You were having a bad day. It's okay. Alex Greenwood [00:28:30]: By the way, if you want, I could tell you my kid can annoy me just like yours can. I mean, just so you know, she's not perfect, but she spends too much money on clothes. But I don't care that much about that. But I just. So I. I feel, like, bad. Like I'm just sitting here telling you every positive, wonderful thing, you know, it's. Trust me. Alex Greenwood [00:28:48]: She also really needs to clean her room. She just. She needs to. Alex Greenwood [00:28:52]: I think all of us have those little things that get under our nerve, but in the end, we love them for who they are, even though they can irk us along the way. Alex Greenwood [00:29:02]: Definitely, sir. Definitely. Alex Greenwood [00:29:05]: Now, Alex, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your own journey today. And it is not over. It is just beginning and will continue into the future because being a dad never ends. And I just want to say thank you for your time today, for sharing your own journey, and I wish you all the best. Alex Greenwood [00:29:21]: Chris, it's been my privilege to be here. And thank you to listeners for letting me go on and on about my daughter. Just. I hope everybody can find that wonderfulness in their own kid and just hopefully eventually go from being their boss to being their friend. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confidence. Independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:30:05]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and musclemen get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

Raising confident, independent daughters in today's world is no small task. On the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rick Guymon—a father of six (including three daughters)—to explore the joys and challenges of fatherhood and what it really means to connect with your kids. From the outset, Rick's story is both moving and inspiring. He shares deeply personal moments, like his daughter's journey with leukemia and the isolation of the pandemic, that highlight how life can bring families together in unexpected ways. What stands out most in this conversation is Rick's commitment to being intentional as a dad. Whether it's through weekly one-on-one "interviews" with his children or setting aside family time each Monday night, Rick and his wife model the idea that strong relationships are built with time, attention, and care. One meaningful theme from this episode is the idea of balancing guidance and independence. Rick believes in fostering agency in his daughters, allowing them to make their own decisions but grounding them with parental wisdom and support. He discusses how their family motto—"almost nothing matters, but God's children do"—guides their daily lives, reminding them to focus on what's truly important: each other and serving others. Rick also opens up about mistakes he's made around perfectionism and the pressure to always get parenting right. He emphasizes the power of vulnerability—recognizing that nobody is perfect, and what matters most is loving your kids unconditionally. For Rick, it's been essential to let go of unrealistic expectations and simply be present, reassuring his daughters that there's nothing they could do to lose his or their heavenly parent's love. Beyond the serious topics, the episode is filled with practical insights—like the benefits of spending time in nature as a family, creating traditions, and encouraging individual interests (from singing to salsa-tasting). If you're a dad looking to build a meaningful connection with your daughter—or any parent hoping for fresh perspective—you won't want to miss this episode. Rick's wisdom and authenticity will encourage you to clear space in your life for what matters most: being present and intentional as you walk the journey of parenthood. Tune in to the "Dad and Daughter Connection" for more real stories and actionable advice, and get inspired to be the dad your daughter needs. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity. We have a great opportunity to connect together, to be a able to work together, to be able to go on this path together, because the journey that we are on is different. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]: Every one of us is going to have a little bit different journey as it comes to raising our daughters. But building those strong connections is so critical in being able to help our daughters to be the best people that we want them to be. And that's why this podcast exists. It exists to allow for you to learn, to grow, to be able to hear some different perspectives as well as be able to consider different ways of fathering, because there's no one right way to father your kids, and there's no manual that we've been given as our kids are born. So every week, I love being able to bring you someone new, someone different, that is parenting in a little bit different way that can give you some perspective, some different perspective on what fatherhood means and how they father their daughters to be able to build those strong connections. Today we got another great guest. Rick Gaiman is with us today. And Rick is a father of six, and he has three daughters and three sons. Rick Guymon [00:02:10]: We'll focus a little more on those. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:11]: Daughters because of the show, but I am really excited to be able to talk with him today and to be able to allow for you to get to know him and to gain some perspective on some of the things that he's learned along the way. Rick, thanks so much for being here today. Rick Guymon [00:02:28]: Oh, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. I love the opportunity to talk about being a dad. It's the best part of my life. So happy to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:35]: Well, I'm really excited that you're here as well. And as I said, you've got three daughters, and with three daughters, you definitely have had some amazing moments, some moments that you've shared together. And I know you and I have talked about some of those. But as you think back and you think to those meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughters, what's one of the most meaningful moments that comes to. Rick Guymon [00:02:57]: Mind and what made it so special as a family? We spend a lot of time together. So my third daughter, she's my fourth child in 2018, was diagnosed with leukemia, and she is all fine now and just hit her five years cancer free a couple of months ago. So we're super happy about that. But in 2018 was when she was diagnosed, and right at the end of her treatment was when Covid began. And so they were a little bit isolated prior to Covid. So when Covid came, we were good at this whole isolation thing. I had been working from home. We had all of these stipulations. Rick Guymon [00:03:30]: We wore masks. And as a matter of fact, we went on a Make A Wish trip with our family. Make a Wish foundation sent us on a trip and they sent us out to Florida, and we were the last one before COVID began. So this is the beginning of March of 2020. And while we were on the airplane, I teased my wife a little bit while we were on the airplane. We were the ones wearing masks. She said, I wish wearing a mask was more normal on the way back from that tr. Wearing a mask was mandatory just two days later after that. Rick Guymon [00:03:57]: So I teased her that, hey, you. You got what you wanted. But on that trip and all through the pandemic, we spent a lot of time as a family. I would say one of the most memorable moments for me was when my oldest daughter, who was eight years old at the time in 2018 when Tessa was diagnosed, so my oldest daughter Gracie, said, why can't it be me instead of her? Because Tessa also has down syndrome. So it was one of those situations where I saw my daughter be completely selfless in that mom. And I think what I realized is that, yes, my daughters are half me and half Mindy when you speak genetically. But I say they have just enough of me to keep them humble. And everything good they have is. Rick Guymon [00:04:36]: Is from Mindy. And to watch. To watch my daughters become like their mother was one of the best things that I've ever seen. And so every moment where that happens to me, it's just gold as a dad. And it was one of those moments where when she said that, I thought she understands what life is about thanks to her mom. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:53]: Now I know that as A father of a daughter, there's this balancing g that you play in regards to working to help guide them, to help them to become who they are. But there's also that fine balance. So how do you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into their own person? Rick Guymon [00:05:15]: Yeah, that's. That's a really great question. I actually think it's a balance between agency and then a relationship. So we are firm believers that agency is the most important thing that we have, like being able to make our own choices and own those choices and. And go where we want to go. But then I also am a believer that our children want parents, not a set of older friends. They don't want someone to just validate all of their decisions, although they may say that what they really want, someone that says want is someone who says, hey, I love you no matter what. Let me tell you what experience has taught me. Rick Guymon [00:05:48]: And so we spend every. Every Sunday, we actually have what we call interviews, where my wife and I sit on the bed in the master bedroom. And one child at a time, the other ones are just playing. Well, one of the kid at a time comes in and they get one on, I guess one on, two on one time, right? Where they can just talk to us. And we let them tell us their fears. We also go through their schedule and we give them a treat like it's a part of what we do. But then we say, hey, what's. What's on your mind? What questions do you have? We also spend about an hour every Monday night all together as a family. Rick Guymon [00:06:17]: And that's scheduled, set apart time where we discuss religion or we have an activity and. Or usually both. Or we'll go for a bike ride and get ice cream. And so we try to show in our. In how we're filling up our time, how important they are to us. And I think the relationship. Relationships are built outside of the duty part of parenting. So. Rick Guymon [00:06:36]: And that's why those moments are the ones that are so important to us where we just get to talk with them and let them just talk at us and really cherish those moments. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:45]: You just talked about some things that you're doing that seem very intentional that you and your wife do to be able to build those connections. So talk to me about intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during challenging times. Rick Guymon [00:07:01]: One of the things that. That we believe is that there's no kind of hobby or talent that needs to be kept from them if it's a good thing Right. If it's good for them. So, for example, I love to woodwork, and I'm always working on some big project in our house. And right now, I've recently ripped down the fireplace on a whim, and it's now missing. And so now my wife looked at it and said, okay, we can have a new fireplace and move it from the corner to the center of the room, or. And this was her great idea, we can push the wall out. And now dining room. Rick Guymon [00:07:32]: And so, of course, we're taking the much bigger project. And so what I do is intentionally we involve the kids. We recognize that our job isn't to make sure that they're having fun all the time. Our job is to create happy, contributing members of society that want. That learn to have fun, kind of regardless of the circumstances. Recognizing, you know, like Viktor Frankl talks about, that their attitude and their ability to adjust their attitude to the situation is the greatest piece of agency that they have. And so we are intentional about. They participate in yard work. Rick Guymon [00:08:04]: They participate in weeding in the gardens and the flower beds and planting the gardens and mowing the lawn and doing these house projects with us. We feel. And they find, although they fight us in the beginning, when they do something difficult and do something worthwhile and valuable, that's when they find the greatest joy. So we're very intentional about how we spend time. One example is all growing up. I can't count the number of books probably that I've read to them as they go to bed. So I'll put them. Put them to bed. Rick Guymon [00:08:32]: And we've read through them whole Harry Potter series and the Fable Haven, you know, depending on what their age was, and the full C.S. lewis Chronicles of Narnia, and just kind of all of these great. And then when they can read a chapter book, I buy them a regular Kindle, not the kind where you have different apps, but a reading Kindle because they wanted to share a room. And so I buy them a Kindle. I stock it with a bunch of books that I know that are quality and that teach good morals and good principles. And then I give them a Kindle to. As they go to bed at night, they continue to read. And so we. Rick Guymon [00:09:02]: We. We find. We sit around the piano and we sing. We just. I know I've mentioned this to you, but our family motto is almost nothing matters but God's children do. And I think as a dad, that motto starts with my own family here. And then it expands to these people around me, and that gets bigger and bigger and Being intentional at every level of that, I guess stewardship, I think, is really critical. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]: And I'm going to come back to that motto, because I want to talk to you a little bit more about that motto in just a little bit too. Every one of us is not fallible. We make mistakes as dads, and we learn from those mistakes. So what's a mistake that you made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering positive connections with your daughters? Rick Guymon [00:09:46]: Oh, good question. There are so many mistakes I've made. I would say one of them is a little bit built into my personality. For a long time, I think I struggled with scrupulosity. And for those that aren't familiar with that, it's just this. It's a perfectionism in how you're living, you know, what you feel is the gospel of Jesus Christ, right? So it's this moment where you say, I'm so focused on. On trying to be perfect. That. Rick Guymon [00:10:11]: And then trying to juxtapose that with the fact that we're all fallible. And so I'm never going to be perfect. And that can just crush you. And it just becomes this crushing weight. And so I think for a long time I was sitting in a pocket of that. And so I think the thing that changed it for me was recognizing that because I'm fallible, there is no way for me, through my efforts to earn my way into heaven, I'll never deserve heaven. I'll never deserve all of the blessings that I have. I don't deserve my children. Rick Guymon [00:10:39]: I don't deserve any of this. Life is unfair and almost always in my benefit. And so I need it to be unfair, or if it were fair, I would have a much worse life than I do. What that allowed me to do is have that same conversation. I think women and young women in the media and in everywhere are pressured so much to be perfect, to look perfect, to do, to have all of the talents and to. It's just such a huge pressure on them that when I recognize for myself that I could release that a little bit now, I could speak from experience to my daughters and say, hey, guess what? In the scheme of things, this doesn't matter. What matters is how you're treating other people. When my daughters go, you know, as they got, My oldest is 15 now, and then I have one that's 13 and one that's nine. Rick Guymon [00:11:23]: And as they've gone into junior high and high school, talking to them about the idea that you don't have to dress like everybody else, to try to fit in. You don't like you're valuable as you are. It was amazing for me to realize and help them realize that it's not in the moments when I'm acting perfect or even doing really well that I recognize my value to God. It's in the moments when I make mistakes and when I recognize that I'm imperfect, that he was still willing to pay the price for me. And so that was the thing that was so cool for me was it's like, oh, it's in my weakness where I see how. Where I can recognize how valuable I am. And so being able to say to them, you're valuable no matter what, has been a really important thing, both for me personally and, I think for them as well. Watching them be able to just settle into who they are and recognize that they're enough as they are. Rick Guymon [00:12:12]: And that my wife was a national champion ballet and jazz dancer. Really, really talented. And we don't put our kids in very much extracurriculars. We want them to live as kids first. They'll have plenty of time. And life isn't about becoming the best in the world at all of the things we do. And so just releasing some of that perfectionism that they were getting from me, that they were getting from the world, that they were getting from kind of all sides, I think was. Was one of those kind of critical mistakes that I was making. Rick Guymon [00:12:41]: But as we've kind of overcome, that has made a huge difference in the relationship that I have with them. I expect them to try their hardest. I do not to be the best. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:49]: Now, I mentioned that I would come back, and I want to come back to the motto that you talked about. And I guess talk to me a little bit about how you developed that motto as parents to guide your family. And how do you find that that motto helps your whole family to come together as a whole, to move forward as a family? Rick Guymon [00:13:12]: I would say that motto morphed over time. When they were really young kids, we encouraged them asking questions like why? Both about rules and also about our religion. And so we feel strongly that everybody at some point should be able to stand on their own in their beliefs, because you're going to be asked questions when I'm not there to give you an answer or. And I want them to think for themselves and follow what they feel is true and what they believe. So our original motto was obey first, ask questions later, so that we could tell them, hey, get out of the road. And then they knew. The motto was first, get out of the road, you can ask why, but when you see the car coming by now you'll understand why. And so we kind of got into this. Rick Guymon [00:13:53]: I was just kind of, as I was mentioning where we noticed that there was after cancer and Covid and they were starting to go back to school. It was. There was just this heaviness in how do you keep up with all of these things in the world that are going on? And we actually homeschooled them for one extra year after Covid, so they didn't go back. So she left in Covid, our oldest daughter, in four, halfway through fourth grade and then didn't go back until seventh grade. And here that's when you start junior high in a new school. And so she went from innocent elementary to the three worst possible years, I think in most human beings lives of junior high and middle school, right, where there's just so much unknown. And she spent that first year eating lunch by herself. And it broke my heart, broke my wife's heart. Rick Guymon [00:14:36]: And, And. And she is. She's. Gracie is just an amazing. An amazing human being. And so when it. Starting in eighth grade, we started to help her realize that if you're lonely, that usually is a symbol or sad that you need to reach out to somebody else. We found that when we were in our darkest moments of in the throes of cancer or Covid, it was then when we served somebody else that kind of let. Rick Guymon [00:15:01]: Lifted us out of that. And so. So we. And that whole. You combine that piece with the whole kind of perfectionism that was happening. And we wanted them to realize that they did not need to be perfect. And that how you find joy is so much more about the focus where you're focusing, not about what's going on. And so there's a quote from one of our church leaders that happiness is much more about the focus of your lives than it is about the circumst of your lives. Rick Guymon [00:15:25]: And so we wanted to combine those two things. And at first we were going to say something to the effect of only focus on what matters. But I thought that's. As Mindy and I talked and we were sitting around the table as a family coming up with this motto. And as we kind of discussed it, we said we actually want them to realize that there are a lot of good things that will bring that you can focus on. If you're looking at kind of a gradient of good or better or best, the options that you have, there's a gradient. And what we wanted to say is erase all of the the fluff and recognize that almost nothing matters, but the thing that does and the thing that will make you happy is serving God's children. So that's how it came up with almost nothing matters, but God's children do. Rick Guymon [00:16:06]: And it focuses everything we do. The question is, okay, we're feeling a little down. Who can we serve? Or we're. I'm feeling lonely. Who can I reach out to? Where it kind of puts the onus on you to recognize that you get to pick the attitude to the circumstance. It's very similar to kind of the Mel Robbins book, which is let them. And I know that's a big kind of popular discussion point right now, which is, hey, everyone else has their agency, but you have yours. And you can choose to be happy, and you can choose to bring good and light into the world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:32]: Now, I know that your family spends a lot of time outdoors, and being outdoors, being in nature, is something that helps to ground you and your family in many different ways. Talk to me a little bit about that. And why has nature been such a large part of the work that you're doing as a father? Rick Guymon [00:16:52]: Father, yeah. You know, when you first get married and you both come from different families and you would spend finances differently, and that's kind of a big part of the discussion oftentimes. Right. Is in the. In the beginning of marriage. And that was definitely the case for Mindy and I. I'm the fifth of 11 children. She's the fourth of five, and I spent money on bicycles. Rick Guymon [00:17:11]: I loved mountain biking. It was where, growing up for me, we lived really close to the mountains here in Utah, and I would hop on my bike at my house, and I could be in the mountains in about 15 minutes, and I'd mountain bike everywhere. And then I' come back. And this is from probably 1996 is when I kind of started mountain biking. So when we got married, I would always try to convince Mindy to come mountain biking with me. Now, she spent every afternoon in dance. That's what she did when she got home from school to when she basically went to bed. She'd come home, do a little bit of homework, and then go to bed. Rick Guymon [00:17:42]: And so it took a little bit of convincing. We both, growing up, had spent some time in a place in southern Utah and northern Arizona called Lake Powell. You and I have talked about Lake Powell a little bit, but I always said that I feel like in Lake Powell, I can see God's imagination. And so I just feel more connected to God when I'm in nature. And There are myriad studies that talk about the benefits of brain chemistry and all of these other things when you're out in nature. And so when we first got married, and we'd been married probably, I don't know, 4ish years, I started spending money on some bikes. And this is a true story. We were on a. Rick Guymon [00:18:16]: One of the things Mindy and I have done is we go on a date every week. So we still are courting each other and it's usually Fridays, so we put it in our budget, have a babysitter go on a date. On a date. And we were in this town and across the street from the diner we were eating at was a boutique that she really wanted to go to. Well, next door was my favorite bike shop. So we're on this date and I ran in and I knew the manager well. And every mountain bike ride or every bike ride we'd been on up to that point, Mindy hated it. She would be think of the wicked witch of the West. Rick Guymon [00:18:42]: You know, we're going down this trail, her feet are off the pedals and they're out sideways and she's going off the path and just screaming. She hates it. So part of the reason was she had this really terrible bike. And I had been begging her. I'm like, the bike makes all the difference after about five or six times. And bless her heart for doing this with me many times where we'd start that way, she'd end up on my nice bike. I'd end up on this little piece of garbage. And she had a great time all of a sudden. Rick Guymon [00:19:08]: And I'm like, okay, I'm noticing the correlation here, right? So she goes into the boutique. I said, oh, I'm just going to run next door to the bike shop and say hi to the manager who's a friend of mine. So I ran in there and I said, hey, I need this bike in this size and I need to buy it right now. Because I. So I bought a bike and I walked it to her and handed it to her inside the Boot Boutique in front of all the other ladies and said, hey, I just bought this for you. Because I knew she wouldn't get mad at me in that moment. And it worked. I mean, it was the perfect thing. Rick Guymon [00:19:34]: And now Mindy and I spend. We'll do 37 mile bike rides together. And all through cancer, Biking was her therapy. She would go out, we have a trail through our neighborhood that goes for miles and miles. We'll do basically as far as you want to go. She would Just go on that trail and cry. And then she would come back and she'd be good for the day. And she would do that pretty much every single day. Rick Guymon [00:19:55]: And so now as a family, sometimes we still do it. It often multiple times a week. Everyone has a bike. And not just a bike. We've spent money on these bikes. They're good bikes so that they can enjoy it and they're comfortable and we can go have these activities. She has a trailer on the back of hers for our youngest. And then I have one that has two seats that they can both kind of sit recumbently. Rick Guymon [00:20:13]: I don't know if that's an adverb, but sit that way and kind of ride. And we typically for them have to say, hey, there's ice cream on the other side of this trail. And so that's how we kind of get them going. But we spend time time hiking and camping. And that's where we actually have spent kind of our disposable income when we do have it is on being outside together. And that's just become. We feel closer to each other and closer to God because of it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:35]: It definitely can be really re energizing and can get your mind in a different space when you're out in nature and you're able to have those unique conversations with your kids because, you know, you turn off the technology and just be. Rick Guymon [00:20:52]: We love to go where there's no reception. Those are our favorite places. And then we're working even as adults to be on our phones and on screens less often. We just find greater joy without them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:02]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions that delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Rick Guymon [00:21:12]: I'm ready. Let's do it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:13]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Rick Guymon [00:21:17]: Awe. I stand in awe of who they are. Yeah, they're just incredible. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Rick Guymon [00:21:25]: It was probably from my dad, who is the father of six daughters. And I remember one time I had a sister just two years older than me, and we were really close, but I was probably the first child that had a little bit of attitude as a teenager. You know what I mean? Some of that teenage angst, the 16 years old and I'm mad at the world syndrome, I like to call it. And my dad just said to me, you know, there's one time I when where I probably didn't say something Super. I never yelled at my mom or called her names or any of those kinds of things, but I was clear about my disdain for the things she was asking me to do. And so the worst punishment you could get was she'd get say, okay, go tell your dad how you treated me. No, no, no. I'm so sorry. Rick Guymon [00:22:03]: I'm so sorry. He never beat us or anything. He was always very loving, very wonderful. But he said, someday you will understand once you get married and have daughters of your own how important respecting women is. Your job is to protect them, not because they couldn't, but because you don. You don't ever want them to be exposed to all of the things in the world that are going to be thrown at them. Let them pursue their own path, but do what you can to support them. And so once I got married, I realized that my job was to lift them up, not the other way around. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:35]: Now, I know you have three daughters, and the answer might be different for each of your daughters. What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together? Rick Guymon [00:22:43]: Okay. Yeah, this is different because they are so different. Gracie, who's our oldest, Gracie, loves to sing, and she has an incredible. An incredible voice. So I love to play the piano. So we will sit at the piano and I'll play music, and she will just sing. And so we spend a lot of time together at the piano singing and playing. And now we're at the point where I've got my wife who sings and my oldest two who sing and my oldest two daughters, and we'll write. Rick Guymon [00:23:10]: I get to write four part or three part harmonies and music for them. And so we spend a lot of time doing that for my second daughter, Andalyn, and she is. You haven't heard much about her. She's 13. She is the one that will do any adventure with me. She'll try the salsas. She'll try, you know, the outdoor activities. She'll do all of those things. Rick Guymon [00:23:28]: So she and I love to just go do things. Her talent is. She sees a need and she just goes and takes care of it. She's just got this amazing, amazing heart and sense of humor. So with Andalyn to almost perform, like comedic shows, and Mindy and I just sit and watch and laugh and giggle at that. So together we love to try salsas. So when we go, like to a farmer's market or whatever, we'll buy a whole bunch of salsa and then we'll come home and we'll grab a bag of chips and she and I Will eat chips and salsa together and. And talk there. Rick Guymon [00:23:56]: And then my third daughter, Tessa, who's nine, she's the one that has down syndrome. Ugly dance parties, turn on any music, and right now she's obsessed with. She always has certain songs that just the beat or something gets to her and she'll just go to town. So right now we're just dancing like crazy. And then I love to get to put her to bed at night when read them a story or, you know, whatever that might look like now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:17]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Rick Guymon [00:24:22]: I would want them to know that there's nothing they can do to escape their parents love or their heavenly parents love. Like, you can never go too far to not be able to come back. And I think that's important for them and important for me as a dad to recognize just who they really are, what they really are here to become, and what their potential is after this. So just knowing that there's no end to their potential and there's no end to what we would do for them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:49]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Rick Guymon [00:24:53]: I used to think that my dad was impatient with 11 kids. I realized he's a saint. I think the thing that I realized is a huge part of parenting is me, for lack of a better term, taking a chill pill and just letting, you know, not expecting that perfection, not expecting really much of anything, letting life happen and recognizing that almost nothing matters and that my job is just to love them. I feel this strongly that it's not my job to. To kind of eternally chastise them. It's not my job to try to convert them. It's not even my job to. And it's definitely not my job to save them. Rick Guymon [00:25:26]: And anytime that I'm trying to do those things or catch myself doing those things, I'm actually putting myself in place of someone who will do that much better with much greater love and. And with a broader view of eternity. My job is to love them. And sometimes that requires, you know, correction and things like that. But most of the time, it's just to let them know that they're loved by me, loved by God. And I think that relationship. If they have a great relationship with their earthly parents and a great relationship with their heavenly parents, then I think I've done a really good job as a dad and they will know much more than I do in very short order. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:03]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters. Rick Guymon [00:26:11]: Yeah. I would say take the time to do it. If you can clear off your plate with all of those things that don't matter, then all of a sudden you have made time with them. And I. You're a really great example of this. Right. We've talked about how you just got back from a really wonderful trip with your oldest daughter, and I think just making the time for them. I think all relationships are made by spending time with them. Rick Guymon [00:26:33]: And that was what my parents did really well. And what I'm hopefully doing with my own children is spending time with them so that they know that they matter to me, that they really matter to me. And that's one of the songs that Gracie and I sing together is from the musical the Waitress. And it's you matter to me. And she'll sing, you know, we'll sing that as a duet together. And just a beautiful, beautiful opportunity, I think, for us. Just recognize that everything can wait. This can't. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:58]: Well, Rick, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey with us today. And I know it's an ongoing journey. It's not something that is done. It will never be done. But I appreciate you sharing that, giving your thoughts, your perspectives, and what you've learned thus far. And I wish you all the best. Rick Guymon [00:27:16]: Thank you so much. It was great to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:27:48]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them present and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best that you can be.

Navigating the journey of fatherhood comes with unique joys and profound challenges, especially when it comes to building lasting, meaningful relationships with our daughters. In the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Daryl Potter—a seasoned banker, published author, and devoted father—for an inspiring conversation about the realities and rewards of raising both neurodivergent and neurotypical children. Right from the start, this episode sets a heartfelt tone about the power of presence, vulnerability, and intentional connection. Dr. Lewis reminds us that fatherhood isn't a quest for perfection, but a continual commitment to showing up, listening, and learning alongside our children. Daryl echoes this philosophy, sharing deeply personal stories from his nearly 30 years of parenting—a journey shaped by both typical milestones and unexpected challenges. His openness about raising a daughter with a degenerative, nonverbal condition is both moving and eye-opening, reminding listeners that every child's journey (and every dad's, too) comes with its own unexpected plot twists. A central theme of the discussion is the idea that parenting is storytelling—not just the stories we tell our kids, but the stories we live alongside them. Daryl explains how he intentionally crafts and shares stories about his own mistakes, growth, and childhood, giving his children not only a sense of family identity, but also permission to be imperfect, learn, and evolve. Just as importantly, he emphasizes the impact of the "stories" parents tell through their actions: how we handle spilled milk, failed attempts, or tough seasons. Our reactions can either instill shame or build resilience and belonging. The episode is packed with practical wisdom: the importance of consistency, the transformative power of focused listening, and the annual necessity of "rewriting" our own parenting narrative as our children grow. Daryl shares beautiful examples—like letting his daughter choose her own socks, even when communication is limited—that illustrate how honoring a child's agency and individuality nurtures their confidence and sense of self. For dads seeking actionable inspiration and heartfelt encouragement, this episode is a must-listen. It's a testament to the fact that connection isn't about being the perfect father—it's about showing up, embracing the journey, and learning to see the world through your daughter's eyes. Ready to go deeper? Listen to the full episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection and discover more stories, challenges, and wins from fathers on the same path. Your journey to a deeper connection starts here. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to delve a little bit deeper into the relationships that we want to build with our daughters. And every day we're going to be pushing ourselves to challenge ourselves to be that much better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]: And we have to be willing and open to learn and to grow and to be able to know that we don't know everything. We're flawed. We're going to make mistakes along the way. And that's why this show exists, that's why this podcast is here, and that's why I love every week being able to talk with you, to be able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I've got two daughters, many of my guests have daughters. And in this journey that you're on, be open, be open to listening and hearing what people are saying. Doesn't mean that you're going to take something out of every episode. I hope you do. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]: But you're going to hear things. You're going to be able to learn things from every person that's on. That's why every week I bring different people on, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to learn, to grow, to learn something a little bit new that you can put into that toolbox of your own. Now, today's guest is Daryl Potter, a seasoned banker, published author, devoted father who spent nearly 30 years balancing demands of a high level career and the joys of challenging. The joys and challenges of raising both a neurodivergent child and a neurotypical one with grown children and a strong, enduring marriage. Darrell brings a unique blend of wisdom, humility, and heart to this parenting conversation. I'm really excited to be able to have him here, to be able to talk not only about his own experience in raising a daughter, but he also talks about the fact that he believes that parenting is storytelling both the stories we tell our kids and the ones we live ourselves. So today we're going to be talking about that and delving a little bit deeper into the stories that we are sharing, but maybe the ones that we want to share as well and how we can better create stories to make us better parents in the end. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:55]: Darrell, thanks so much for being here today. I'm really excited. Daryl Potter [00:02:59]: Pleasure to meet you, Chris, and to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]: We start our episodes with an opportunity to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. I said you have a daughter. And I guess one of the things that I want to know first is every father has a unique relationship with their kids. You have a unique relationship with your daughter. What is one of the most meaningful moments you've shared with your daughter and what made it so special? Daryl Potter [00:03:24]: I got 24 years of experiences to try to filter in a hurry. To be honest, the probably the best experience is really one of the first because it was formative for setting me up for the following almost quarter century. And that is I can remember we described when she first came home as it being like a baby honeymoon. And when you think about when you have a newborn daughter, she offers you nothing except noise when she's hungry and smelly bits at certain times. And I can just remember those first few days of we'd take naps, my wife and I, in the afternoon and we'd settle her in beside us and I'm a little larger than my wife and and so she'd roll towards me and she'd wind up with her head pressed into my ribs, just quietly breathing to the rhythm a little quicker, but to the rhythm of my ribs. And I, I couldn't fall asleep. I'd afraid of rolling over on her. And so we would just lay there. Daryl Potter [00:04:15]: She'd sleep and I would just feel her against me. And I think that's been the I'd never had an experience like that in my life before, and it shaped the following 24 years because I recognized that I have to come to where you are right now. And at three days old, what she needed was a warm body to press against while she slept. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:36]: Now, with our daughters, there's always a balance. There's a balance in being able to guide our daughters while also giving them independence and allowing them to grow into the people that they're becoming. Talk to me about what you did to balance that for yourself. Daryl Potter [00:04:54]: So it's interesting. I want to answer that question two ways because as you mentioned, I have A neurodivergent and a typical child. My son is the one who's typical. So I'm a big believer that, you know, my wife and I have talked about we're raising adults, not hobbies or reflections of ourselves or what have you. And so early on we had that really as a mindset to be thinking about the future as we transition through toddler to school to, you know, on and on. With our daughter, it's quite different because she out intellectually, physically at about eight years old, her condition kicked in and more strongly and it's a degenerative condition. So by age 12, she stopped talking. By age 14, she stopped walking, even with a walker and, and so on. Daryl Potter [00:05:40]: So the, a lot of, so it requires in, in her case, so much more deliberateness. But it's the same philosophy as with our son. So as we, you know, for example, getting her dressed in the morning, it's so important to let her choose her own socks. She can't talk anymore, she can't get around by herself. But we can bring to her a, a options and she can still pick. I want the pink ones today. You know, obviously with our, with our son it's a, it's a totally different, you know, game and, and I would love to have had the opportunity to do the same thing with a daughter because I think it's so. It's so needed in today's society for females to be raised, for girls to be raised to be not adjuncts to the men in their lives, but to be their own person. Daryl Potter [00:06:42]: And as much as we can, we try to do that for our daughter. It's just very difficult when she can't even dress herself anymore. So it's a different scenario. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:50]: Definitely challenging. And I can only imagine, you know, trying to understand her needs and being able to truly be able to still build that bond while interpreting what is needed. So I guess in thinking about that, when as you said, she's, she's non verbal and she can't do many of the things that like you said, your son can do. What are some intentional ways that you had to work and maybe you still are working today to continue to strengthen that bond with your daughter, especially during these challenges, the challenging times that you have. Daryl Potter [00:07:36]: Yeah, I think one of the challenges that certainly I was, I would have had going into fatherhood and I think I've observed around me in society, friends, what have you, is that I do think men, particularly when they start having children or at a life stage, career wise, marriage wise, personal maturity wise, very goal Oriented, very driven, whether it's by, you know, family of origin issues or ambition issues or what have you. And there can be a really dangerous trap of missing moments, maybe even missing seasons. Our daughter was 10 days old when she we discovered that we had problems and we, we were event took a while to get a diagnosis. She essentially wasn't supposed to live past age 3. Definitely wouldn't make it into the teen years. The fact that she's 24 makes her a bit miraculous. But what that did for me early on is I had those as I described moments few days old of like bliss and imagining the future. And you know, all I have to do is just lay here quietly and she'll sleep to like literally a week later discovering she's going to be gone before long, like weeks or months. Daryl Potter [00:08:57]: And it had, I think it could have many impacts denial or what have you. The effect it had on me was like reaching into my chest and just grabbing my heart and squeezing and I was like, I have to know you, I have to connect with you, I have to. You might not even live to language so I have to eye contact, physical touch. You must know that I love you and I must be able to read you before you're gone. Now the little turkey wound up going on for almost 25 years now. And you know, so that was, that's been false alarms every few days for 24 years, which is its own version of trauma. But it taught me how to be a better dad to my son as well, that need to learn focus. And I had a friend remind me of it actually quite explicitly maybe half a decade later in a situation where he reminded me, you know, they're not going to be five forever. Daryl Potter [00:10:00]: A year from now you won't have a five year old anymore. So if, if you want to get to know your five year old, one. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:05]: Of the questions that I guess that comes to mind is as you're continuing to support and to help your daughter now into adulthood and doing what you can to be able to probably still push her, challenge her and help her in many different ways to be able to live the best life that she can, what's one way that you consistently are showing your daughter that she can always count on you? Daryl Potter [00:10:31]: You know, you used the key word there is consistency. For her to be able to count on us and it applies to neurotypical children just as equally if not more for her to know that she can count on us, we have to be consist whether it's sleep deprivation or moodiness or what have you an Inconsistent parent is an inconsistent reality when a child is very young. And that can lead to a very unstable understanding of how to trust, how to relate, how to read, how to enjoy. It can have really long reaching implications. And a child at 10 may start to become cynical if the parent is too unpredictable. On the other hand, a child at 10 can just become hopelessly enmeshed in trying to adapt in well meaning but ultimately unhealthy ways that have to be undone later in adulthood if they're going to have healthy relationships. So I think that consistency is absolutely essential, obviously positive consistency, but being reliable in your engagement that even I think sometimes. For example, I got a buddy of mine who I did a lot of camping with, family camping, and he was great because he had two rules, no falling in the fire or drowning in the lake. Daryl Potter [00:11:43]: Like those were his two rules when he was camping. And you know, I think sometimes we make too many rules and then don't enforce them. And so that's a kind of inconsistency that can feel well meaning. But maybe we need to think, you know, maybe there's more rules than just not falling in the fire or drowning in the lake. But you know, that's not a bad target to, you know, especially when they're really young to help them understand and then be consistent. Like seriously, thou shalt not fall in the fire. But maybe let tripping over the 10 peg go is not exactly a crime. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:27]: Now, you know, I, one of the things that also comes to mind is as your kids get older, you, you mentioned earlier, you're not trying to create a replica of yourself, but you inevitably, as your kids are growing, you have dreams for, you have ideas for them, you have a picture in your mind's eye of where you think they may be and then the reality sits in of where they end up. It may be very different as, as we, we've heard in the story of your daughter as well. So in talk and thinking about who your daughter is now, who she was as she's grown up, how do you, I'm going to use that word, consistency. How do you consistently support your daughter and helping her to pursue her passions and dreams even when she can't speak or do some things that you know, she wants to do. Daryl Potter [00:13:16]: If you think about it, verbal or nonverbal, we learn a lot about what our children want by watching them. How old is a child before they start really talking in a way that really makes sense? We might say two, but is it, isn't it closer to four before it's like okay, now I'm really fully getting cognitive communication here. But we don't wait till 2 or 4 to understand what they want. And I think a parent who's paying very close attention is not just listening, they're watching. They're being sensitive to the non verbal cues that their child is giving. As a matter of fact, your child is more likely to tell you the truth and the most intimate parts of what they want to express non verbally when they tell you yes, but their body says no. Once they're past age 4 or whatever the age is, you can start pulling on that thread a little bit and teaching them how to communicate, teaching them that it's okay to express, you know, a negative emotion or what have you. So in terms of how to help them onwards towards their dreams, sometimes that's just helping them understand it's okay to verbalize those dreams. Daryl Potter [00:14:27]: So do you want to go with your friends to do such? No, no, no, I don't want to do that. But why that tone? Why that body language? Why that? And maybe it's not, we have to learn some parenting skills. Maybe it's not a frontal assault to challenge what doesn't sound like a totally forthcoming answer, you know, and then to discover there's a rupture in the friendship, or there's been a hesitation as to whether they feel like they have what it takes or maybe like you don't want them to do such and such and to be able to draw that out in dialogue because, you know, we've had these sort of conversations with my son and engaging with my daughter where they want to do things that they're not going to be allowed to do. But by teaching them that it's okay to have the conversation and not be in trouble for wanting what they're not allowed. And we can talk through it and there may be alternatives. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:09]: Now, I talked about the fact that you describe parenting as storytelling. What does that mean to you? And how has that idea shaped the way that you've raised your kids, especially your daughter? Daryl Potter [00:15:20]: One of the strongest ways, I think we first connected over a book that I've written, something more, Living well in a Broken World, that was published last year. Kind of a deep dive on the whole topic of storytelling as a process of unpacking. Call it the meaning of life, living well in a broken world. How to navigate the hungers and dissatisfactions and complexities of being an adult on a planet that doesn't always do what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. And so for the storytelling Aspect both in the book and in life. We're storytelling creatures. We remember stories. I could give you a whole list of facts, but if I gave you a brief story, you know, a week from now, you might. Daryl Potter [00:15:59]: You'll remember none of my facts, but you'll remember the story. And the book starts with one of my kids asking me a question that leads to a story which led to the writing of the book. I see it working in a couple different ways. One is for myself. What story do I tell myself about my stage of fatherhood, about where my kids are at, about my role in my kid's life? How can I take the present moment and tell a story to myself about the future and where. If this was a. I'm a novelist on the side as well, so. So the, you know, how would this plot play out if my actions with my child today were the opening of chapter one? Where is this relationship going? Based on how Saturday afternoon's conversation went, it's also incredibly powerful as a parenting tool by telling stories about ourselves to our kids. Daryl Potter [00:16:49]: Our kids are fascinated by the fact that their adult parents used to not know how the world worked. Surprise. Kind of still don't. But we used to not know at the level of a 7 year old or a 10 year old. And the mistakes we made, what we learned from them. They learn so much from that. They learn our biographies. They learn a little bit of their own identity because if they're not adopted, they probably share some genetic traits that are similar. Daryl Potter [00:17:14]: They learn also humility by accident because they hear you tell how you tripped and fell and how you overcame a particular situation or how a bad choice led to some extra work. So the process of telling stories about ourselves is deeply interesting to children and deeply memorable. I can remember stories my parents have told that tell many, but I think I remember every one of them from their childhoods. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:38]: So as you think about stories, what kind of stories did you find yourself telling intentionally or unintentionally as your kids grew up? How did those stories impact their sense of identity and belonging? Daryl Potter [00:17:52]: The stories that were told about self for the benefit of their growth. So that was quite explicit. One of the biggest stories we tell is the ones that are also non verbal. So for example, child messes something up at the table, knocks the glass of milk over and breaks the glass and kind of screws up dinner a little bit. You tell a remarkably impacting, potentially decades long impacting story by how you respond. Are they a stupid person for knocking the milk over? Are they lectured for I told you not to put the milk at the edge of the table that how many times have we had this conversation? Or are they oh, did any of that glass get on you? Don't move. Let me make sure we get pick up the glass first. Just make them feel protected. Daryl Potter [00:18:37]: Or is it funny? Holy cow, you hit the dog. Like what story do you tell by your natural reactions? Now the challenge with those kind of stories is they're often immediate and not thought out. And therefore my advice to dads is you gotta a therapy term would be to do your work. You've got to really kind of unpack a little bit of maybe self. If your immediate reactions to unpleasant events tell the story you'd actually don't like that plot on There may be a little bit of work unrelated to even being a dad needing to be done before but even those situations can be fantastic self storytelling opportunities to realize ah, I don't like that the milk got spilled and I made it about something negative. It's just milk. If the kid's done it five times this week, maybe it's time to get them a plastic tumbler A little too quick out of the sippy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:26]: Because I mentioned earlier and we've talked about this, that you've raised both a neurodivergent and a neurotypical child and that brings unique challenges. How did the story that you told yourself as a parent help you stay grounded and connected through those differences? Daryl Potter [00:19:43]: I'm going to slightly change your question or my answer, but I will touch on what you're talking about because what I found was I had competing stories, particularly with my daughter, because I think society tells us stories. Some of them can be just quite negative and sexist in terms of she needs to be look a certain way, she needs to have a certain type of interaction model. A tomboy girl's not acceptable, you know, what have you. But step beyond that. For a parent with a special needs child, there can be a story that some part of your psyche might tell yourself that you did this somehow or this somehow reflects on you like your child is your resume. And I was somehow didn't produce a good one in terms of the society's expectations of being tall and beautiful and smart and volleyball team and whatever is going on in your particular culture and neighborhood. So there's a lot of competing stories that we have and then we have our family of origin stories in terms of what's expected with the style of respect to grandparents or the type of clothes they wear or all sorts of things. There could be such a loud chorus of conflicting stories for us to filter through that. Daryl Potter [00:20:54]: Some of the most important story work I felt that occurred was the turning off everything and just learning what story matters to me and then learning to rewrite that story. So in my daughter's case, when it became apparent that she wasn't going to join the Olympics or the debate team, I needed to make sure that my story didn't have Olympic athlete or verbal jiu jitsu star anywhere in my internal makeup. The end goal to the story of my daughter, this is her life, her health, her biology, and in the case of, of my typical child, I think more in terms of also their dreams and their specific intellectual gifts and so on. And I need to help them achieve their story, not play out one of the many, including some that might be just my own personal stories that I want them to wish fulfill. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:45]: And thinking about that, I think sometimes we think of storytelling as something that we do for our kids. But how can dads listen for the stories that their daughters are trying to tell about themselves and the world around them? Daryl Potter [00:22:04]: I love that you asked that question because I really believe that sometimes and this doesn't just apply to parenting, this applies to marriage and being a manager at work and whatever else. Honestly, in so many situations, loving comes down to listening. The time given to letting another human being know that you have my full attention. And this was true when my kids were young, before smartphones were a thing. I think it's just heightened now in an era of smartphones to really know that I put that thing down and we have eye contact. In the case of my daughter, it also helps with physical contact. She responds very well when I'm with her. Sit cross legged in front of her and hold her hands. Daryl Potter [00:22:43]: She'll let me know if she's not in the mood for that today. But that bonding is so important to the sense of connection. Humans need to be listened to and children all the more. Prior to being your child, they didn't exist. You are shaping their understanding of how reality, reality works and whether or not they matter in that reality. And that bank is being filled up one coin at a time with every second you give them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:08]: Now, looking back, were there moments where you had to rewrite your parenting story? Maybe a time when you realized that the narrative you were living no longer served your daughter or your family 100%? Daryl Potter [00:23:22]: I would say there is at least an annual exercise like that, because my wife and I have described the whole process of parenting as being one long process of letting go. When a child is born, you decide everything they can cry if they want, but you're still the one deciding if the bum gets changed or the tummy gets fed. The micromanaging control that a parent has at birth is just kind of bizarre. But by the time they're 20, they should be adults. They should be able to, if they're not in school, pay the rent if they are in school, show up to classes on their own and have a plan for the future. And not mom and dad's plan. They should be having their own plans and putting those plans place. But the bridge from infancy to 20 can't start at 18 or 12. Daryl Potter [00:24:09]: Our son got his first chores when he was 4 and a half or 5. So that every single year we have had to have a process of telling ourselves a new story of what parenting now means for this age group. And gradually, the way we phrased it is, is we would extend both privileges and responsibilities was how we packaged it. We would extend additional privileges, meaning like staying up later or food choices or whatever when they're young. And responsibilities could be something essential, simple as taking the recycling to the garage or whatever, but pairing privileges and responsibilities together as the children advance through the years. So it's not just a case of hey, I'm your chauffeur from 8 to 16 and then you're on your own. But there's a real intimate connection between their expanding maturity and their expanding responsibility. And that starts with parents telling themselves the story of they turned seven, I don't have a six year old anymore. Daryl Potter [00:25:03]: What does talking to a seven year old sound like? Because if it sounds a lot like six not growing as a parent or helping them grow, and if I'm only responding to them, I'm probably going to eventually frustrate them and we're going to get into some negative pushback come teen years if I'm always the one lagging as they grow. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:20]: Very true. So we already mentioned your daughter's 24, your son's 21. Now that your children are grown, how do you see the stories that you told and lived echoed in the people that they've become? And what legacy do you hope that those stories leave behind? Daryl Potter [00:25:36]: Wonderful question. They are easier when we talk about my son because he's neurotypical. But I think that it's true for my daughter as well. They are more confident in themselves, in their place in the world, in their ability to navigate within the limitations of their life situations. My daughter being the one more limited. Of course, my son's limits tend to be more economic because he's in third year university. But as a result of that they always have known they are loved. They always have heard stories to learn from our mistakes so that they could avoid them. Daryl Potter [00:26:11]: We have worked very hard to not let that spilled milk be be an opportunity for verbal abuse or just using that as an illustrative example and letting them advance from age 6 to 7 and then making sure 8 looks different. The result is neither one of them are socially desperate. Neither one of them in the way that I would describe myself at that age or, or I think I can speak for my wife in terms of her background. Neither one of them are socially insecure. Neither one of them are I'll speak more for my son now socially inept. My daughter's. Well, she has seizures and stuff so that kind of screws up social interaction when you you throw that in with non verbal but the point is even with my daughter at times I look at her and I think you are more secure with us than I can ever remember being growing up and I know my wife could ever remember being growing up and she hasn't been able to say a word to us for over a decade and I don't know how much of what we say to her she fully understands anymore because there's a cognitive decline there. Although she's cheeky by nature. Daryl Potter [00:27:13]: So I think sometimes she pretends she doesn't understand just she's still got a personality. So I think that that process on the other side. First of all, parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Tied maybe for doing a decent job of marriage, fantastic. But requires a level of engagement that didn't exist when I was a bachelor, it's very satisfying to come out the other side and to see a lot of hard work pay off. Now when you're dealing with a special needs child, payoff looks differently than it does on our son who's going to head off to fourth year before long. But nevertheless payoff in emotional rewards and practical rewards as we see them develop. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:49]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Daryl Potter [00:28:01]: Close. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:02]: What's the best piece of dad advice you ever received? Daryl Potter [00:28:05]: When my son was in his Pokemon phase and one of my camping buddies took me aside and said you better learn to love Pokeman now or he will talk about it with his friends instead. And by the time he gets to 10 you will have trained him not to talk to you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:20]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Daryl Potter [00:28:23]: Going for walks in the woods. Ever since she was a baby she's loved trees and I'm a bonsai guy. So between the two of us, she might get that from me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Daryl Potter [00:28:33]: Your mom and dad love you unconditionally and adore you. You don't measure up to the mentioned the Olympics and the debate team. It doesn't change our love for you for a second. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:45]: What's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Daryl Potter [00:28:50]: But love isn't about what you get, it's what you give. Infants teach you that, but so do 10 year olds when they're a little self and you start to realize I love you anyways. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:01]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Daryl Potter [00:29:09]: Get down on their level, like literally sitting on the floor if they're really young. Get that eye contact and learn to understand the human behind those eyes as opposed to society or our wishes or whatever else might impose between as a filter. Strip away the filters and learn the human. There's so much to be discovered and behind a daughter's eyes. And they will learn not to tell you who they really are. If you teach them that you only want to see the screen between but focus on who they really are. That's magic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:45]: Well, Darrell, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own ongoing journey that you're if people want to find out more about you, where should they go? Daryl Potter [00:29:53]: They can find me on my website, darrelpotter.com that's a D A1R Y L. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:59]: Potterlikeharry.com Again Daryl, thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for sharing your story and I wish you all the best. Daryl Potter [00:30:06]: Thank you Christopher. It's been fantastic to talk to you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:30:39]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and musclemen get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

In a recent episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Matt Strain, a devoted father and passionate advocate for intentional parenting. Matt's candid conversation offers a heartfelt look at the ups and downs of fatherhood, highlighting the power of presence, vulnerability, and shared experiences in building deep and lasting relationships with our daughters. Learning As You Go One of the central themes in the episode is the recognition that there is no instruction manual for fatherhood. Matt and Dr. Lewis both emphasize that every dad is figuring it out as they go—making mistakes, learning, and growing alongside their children. The podcast exists as a toolbox, filled with stories and insights from other dads, to remind us that we are not alone in this journey. Overcoming Personal Struggles Matt's story is notably powerful for its honesty. He opens up about his journey with sobriety—how a transformative conversation with his doctor prompted him to quit drinking when his daughter was just an infant. Through pain, persistence, and the support of his family, Matt rebuilt his life, learning healthier ways to cope and connect. His journey is a testament to the resilience that many fathers quietly cultivate and the courage it takes to make hard changes for the sake of our children. In sharing his struggles with vulnerability, Matt models an important lesson for other dads: you don't have to be perfect, but you do have to be present and honest. This authenticity builds trust, showing daughters that their fathers are not only protectors, but also humans who strive, stumble, and get back up. Building Connection Through Shared Experience A highlight of the episode is Matt's story of bonding with his daughter through physical activity, especially cycling and preparing for triathlons. Rather than imposing his interests, Matt encourages dads to meet their daughters where they are—even if that means learning to love something new. Whether it's cheering at a dance recital or joining Girls on the Run, the key is to actively support the things that make them light up. Takeaway for Dads Matt's journey reinforces a simple but profound message: being a great dad isn't about perfection—it's about being present, listening without judgment, and building memories together. This episode is filled with wisdom, inspiration, and practical insights for any father who wants to deepen his connection with his daughter. Listen to the full conversation and discover how you too can strengthen one of the most important relationships in your life. Subscribe to the "Dad and Daughter Connection" and join a community of fathers growing, learning, and connecting every week. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on our relationships with our daughter, working to build those strong relationships that we want to have with them one step at a time. You know, there are no rule books. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:08]: There are no guidebooks. There's nothing that we get. When you become a father, whether it's a father of a son or a father of a daughter, you gotta learn along the way. And this podcast exists to be able to give you some of those tools for your toolbox, allow for you to be able to learn from others that have come before you, and allow for you an opportunity to be able to build some resiliency, some other tools to allow for you to be able to know you're not alone and that there are so many other dads out there that struggle, just like you do, to be that dad that you want to be. And my hope every week is that you have an opportunity to be able to take some things away from each of these conversations, to learn from our guests, to. To allow for you to be able to gain that insight that will allow for you to be that father in the future that you see yourself as being. Today we got another great guest. Matt Strain is with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]: Matt's a father of two. He has a son and a daughter, and we're gonna be talking about his relationship with his daughter and some of the things that they've been doing together to be able to strengthen that bond along the way. But as always, we're gonna get to know Matt a little bit more as well. Matt, thanks so much for being here today. Matt Strain [00:02:25]: Oh, thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]: You know, we always start off our conversation with some opportunities to be able to get to know you and your relationship with your daughter a little bit more. And I guess, first and foremost, as you think about your relationship With Lily, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with her thus far and what made it so special? Matt Strain [00:02:44]: I think a lot of it. For a lot of us who had young kids, when the COVID lockdown hit, we were all stuck in the house really, really close to our kids. A lot closer than most parents get under normal circumstances. But I think one of the moments that really, really sticks with me was after things finally slowed down and we opened things back up. After doing all of first grade and some of kindergarten remotely, my daughter went back to school in person. And it was really hard for her because she had forgotten how to interact with other kids. Now at this point, we were walking to school every day because her school was only about half a mile away. And I would walk her to school, and more often than not, when I came to pick her up, she was just porn up. Matt Strain [00:03:29]: We would be upset, we would be crying, and I would ask her what's wrong? And a large amount of it was just this lack of remembering how to socialize. One of the big arguments was, you know, at recess today, nobody wanted to play the game that I wanted to play. And we went through this period of about two months where I had to remind her that, you know, but did you volunteer to play anybody else's games that they wanted to play? And she was like, well, no, I wanted to play my game. And I'm like, well, they feel the same way. And we had a lot of these conversations over the course of about six to eight weeks. And after about six to eight weeks, she started getting re socialized and re acclimated. And it wasn't just one aha moment or big light bulb, but I think during those walks and those conversations, we got a little bit closer. And more importantly, she got to a point where she felt like she could trust me and talk to me and that I would, number one, listen. Matt Strain [00:04:25]: And not try to tell her what I thought, but listen to what she had to say and that she could rely on me to not judge. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:32]: You know, that's so important, because being able to not judge and be able to just be there, be present, is something that is not always innately male. I'm going to say so many times men are programmed to fix things, and we jump right in with that answer. Instead of just being in the moment and listening. Talk to me about that for you. And whether being a father to a daughter, whether in that situation or in others, if you've had to reprogram yourself in any way, well, there's been a. Matt Strain [00:05:06]: Lot of reprogramming of me since I became a father. I have a lovely partner in life. My wife, Angela, she is a doctor. Which is the reason why when my daughter was born A little over 11 years ago, I stepped away from my career as a chef and became a stay at home parent. We wanted to have a parent at home. And to be blunt, Dr. Money Trump Chef money. And we had a desire to pay the house note and the bills and that type of thing. Matt Strain [00:05:31]: So she kept working. And her focus is she works in psychiatry. And she has helped me along a lot. And one of the things that we do as a couple is that whenever one of us starts complaining about either something happening at work or in our social lives or with the kids or whatever else, at some point during the venting session, one of us will look up and say, honest question, are you looking for answers or did you just want to vent? And a lot of the time the answer is, I just want to complain. I just need somebody to complain to. And it was hard. It's really, really hard because I'm like you. My instinct is, well, I know how you can fix this. Matt Strain [00:06:10]: I know what I would do in that situation, and you want to do that, but that's not what that person needs at that moment. So a lot of it started long before we had kids. One of the things that happened shortly after my daughter was born and I stepped away from my career as a chef, that was the biggest change. About four months after my daughter was born, I went into a doctor's appointment, and I'm a type 2 diabetic, so I regularly get blood work done. And my primary care physician noticed some abnormalities in my blood work and had me come back in to do an additional panel and brought me back in after those results came in to have a real serious conversation with me. And basically I went into the doctor and the doctor informed me that I was going to quit drinking that day. And I laughed and I said, oh, yeah, you mean cut down, right? And to her credit, my doctor pointed at my daughter, who at that point was a little over four months old, sitting in her little car seat asleep, thank heavens, during the doctor's appointment, and said, that really depends. And I said, depends on what? And she said, it depends on if you have any intention of living to see her graduate high school. Matt Strain [00:07:12]: And I said, excuse me. And she explained that the way that my liver enzymes were so far out of whack that she was fairly certain that I was within a percentage point or two of being put on a transplant list and that I would probably die before I got one. And so I went home and quit drinking. It was probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I was a real jerk, I used to say for the first three or four months. My wife has informed me that it was closer to the first year. But at this point I am over 11 years without a drink. And that changed a lot of things for me. Matt Strain [00:07:47]: Having worked in the restaurant industry, drugs, alcohol, it's all just part of the world. No one even looks twice at the idea of somebody sitting down and having three or four drinks before work. Especially when you're somebody like me who was working in the kitchen, not out there dealing with people. Obviously it had gotten out of hand, but the thing that I wasn't prepared for was that when I stopped drinking, I had to relearn how to function. I had no ability to control emotions whatsoever because I had spent years and years just numbing everything. So there was a really rocky period in there in the early part of my daughter's life. Luckily, being as how this happened when she was four months old. Neither of my children have any memories of their dad when he was actively an alcoholic. Matt Strain [00:08:35]: They've only known me in recovery, which is a huge plus. But it really did prompt a lot of big changes in my life and learning new coping mechanisms, new ways to interact with people in the world and everything else. And I think that also really helped me become a better father because I was already in the process of making so many changes. It was really just one more thing added onto the pile. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:02]: So I guess as you went through that journey for yourself and as you said, you had to go home and just stop. And for many men who may be in that situation where they either they were told that they need to and they, they don't, or they think they need to and they struggle. Talk to me about that for yourself. And what allowed you to be able to be 11 years in, to be able to make that step for yourself as a man, as a father, to be able to stay consistent in this journey that you've been on? Matt Strain [00:09:38]: Well, in the beginning, I'm not going to lie, it was pure fear. I mean, I was terrified at that point. I was 42 years old. I was not ready to die. I had just become a father. I have this little tiny squiggling little bundle of love. I mean, we all remember that four to six month period. We've all blocked up the memories of the 3 o' clock in the Morning, waking up and wishing for the sweet release of death or at the very least, a longer nap. Matt Strain [00:10:03]: And, I mean, I'd be lying if I told you I didn't feel the urge to drink. I mean, it was there constantly. It helped that I have a really supportive family. One of the things that my wife and I did is we removed every bit of alcohol from this house, and it was two years before there was any alcohol of any kind in this house. And, I mean, we removed Nyquil, we removed vanilla extract, we removed cooking wines, everything. My wife, the only time she got to drink is if we were out to eat somewhere or if we had gone to a party or gone over to someone else's house. She might have a little. But number one was that we got rid of the opportunity for it. Matt Strain [00:10:44]: I stopped carrying cash of any kind. I started doing everything that I do with nothing but a credit card. Because with credit cards, there are receipts, and with receipts, there's accountability. That was a request that I made, not her. That I looked up and said, I need to do this for me. And again, after that initial period, I started to come alive again. I started doing things that I hadn't done in decades, whether it was spending more time reading or, you know, going hiking in the woods again and getting outside, things that I just wasn't doing and hadn't been doing for the last 20 years and really started to enjoy living life. And after a while, it just became a personal challenge to realize that I'm stronger than this. Matt Strain [00:11:33]: Again, I hate to go back to those stereotypical I'm a man type mentalities, but it was, I'm not going to let this be. And I worked hard and I struggled. There's no two ways about it. Like everyone who goes through this process, there were stumbles. There were stumbles. But one of the phrases that I use is a lot of time, you'll hear people, people that will keep a list of, I've been sober for this many days, and then they stumble and they have a drink, and suddenly they're like, well, I've undone the past six months worth of work, and the answer is no. No, you haven't. You had one bad day. Matt Strain [00:12:06]: That doesn't discount the six months prior to that. Unless you let it get up, dust yourself off, and get right back on the right path. After about two years, it became the new norm for me. One of the other big ones, and this was the hardest one for me, was that I realized that the best thing I could do was to be very, very public and open about the fact that I couldn't drink. I let all my friends know. I let all of my family know because that made them help look out for me. And again, if you've informed your friends that I have a problem and I can't drink and you find them still offering you drinks, newsflash, those are not your friends. Those are just drinking buddies. Matt Strain [00:12:49]: Your real friends are going to be like, oh, well then, yeah, let's keep this away from you. And it makes a huge difference. One of the funniest stories. As you know, I've been involved with the National At Home dad Network for a number of years and they throw a convention every year. So it was in 2021, right after the COVID lockdown. We had skipped a year and done a virtual convention. And then we did an in person one in Cincinnati and we were doing our kickoff party, which was convention Eve, and it was at this Irish bar. And as an intro, after I had been sober for about probably close to five or six years, we were out to eat one day and they had some non alcoholic beers on the menu. Matt Strain [00:13:31]: And I thought, you know, I'm going to try one of these. I mean, I had been very nervous about doing it for years prior to that for the fear that this might trigger cravings or whatever else. But I felt pretty confident in my sobriety at that point. And also I was just buying a bottle at a restaurant. It's not like it was here at the house. And we still had all the safety measures as far as credit cards and everything else in place and it was really tasty and it made me remember that I really like beer for the flavor, but that wasn't what I was using to fuel my alcoholism. Honestly, beer just couldn't get me where I needed to go. I was drinking hard liquor for that. Matt Strain [00:14:06]: And so I've begun drinking non alcoholic beer fairly regularly. So I'm standing at the bar as we're getting ready for this kickoff party and I had asked the bartender if they had an non alcoholic beer and he was like, oh yeah. We just got in this new Lagunitas IPA that's non alcoholic. And I'm like, great, I'd love to try one. And they brought one up and they popped open the bottle. And here I am holding a brown bottle of non alcoholic beer in my hand, taking a sip when somebody comes up the stairs. And it's one of the other guys that comes to the convention regularly who's a friend of mine, and he's not a small man, he comes running across the floor of this second story restaurant. And I mean literally, I can hear the thumping and literally jumps in my face and is like, what the hell are you doing? And I'm like, it's not alcoholic. Matt Strain [00:14:53]: And he's like, oh, oh crap. I'm really sorry, man. And my immediate response was, no, don't be sorry. I love that. Like that shows me that you actually care. But his thing was he had never seen me with a bottled non alcoholic beer. All the stuff that I drank was always in can. But the fact is having people that are willing to have your back at that level really does help because I think you'll find that most of the people that care about you want you to do what's good for you. Matt Strain [00:15:21]: And there are some people out there who can drink in moderation. I'm just not one of them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:25]: So you're 11 years in and your daughter is 11. And so I guess one question that I have is as she gets older, there's going to be things that will be temptations for her. As your son gets older, you've gone through this yourself and how do you hope to have conversations with them about your journey and what's brought you to where you are today and the decisions that they make in their lives? Matt Strain [00:15:53]: Well, we've already had some of those conversations early on. I mean, my wife enjoys a glass of wine every now and then, occasionally hard cider or mead. But literally she will pour herself a glass of mead with dinner one night and then put a cork in the bottle and put it in the fridge and it might sit there for like three, four, five days before she bothers pouring another one. I, on the other hand, didn't understand why a bottle of Jameson had a screw top because once I opened it, I wasn't stopping till it was empty. When they were younger, they were oblivious. They didn't think anything of it. But as they've gotten older, they've noticed that mom will have a glass of wine or we'll have company over and everybody will be having a glass of wine. But I don't. Matt Strain [00:16:33]: And we've told them up front that dad's problem is that he doesn't have an off switch, that once he starts, he really can't stop and that the best thing that I can do for me is to just not start. And we've explained to them that this is just the way things are for dad and that it's not that way for mom. So she enjoys every now and then. And when the time comes, I'm really Hoping that a they inherit my wife's genetics, not mine, and that they don't have that little thing in the back of their head that says more, more, more, but that if they do, the experiences that I've had and the things that I've been through will help me help them. The fact is, I'd be lying if I said I didn't start using alcohol as well as other substances back when I was in high school and living at home with my parents. And they knew some, but they had no idea of most of it. I would like to believe that when my children get to that age and those temptations hit them, if they do give in and experiment and that type of thing, that with my previous experience, hopefully I'll be able to identify the signs a little better than my parents were able to. And more importantly, that my wife can speak to them from the perspective of a professional who knows better. Matt Strain [00:17:49]: And I can speak to them from the perspective of somebody who's been there and knows what the end result and knows where it's going to bring you. And again, I don't make a secret of it. I'm more than happy to explain to my kids this is what it was. Now I do it in age appropriate way. I mean, I don't talk to my daughter when she was seven with the same details that I talk to her now that she's 11 and about to go into middle school. But there's no benefit in hiding any of our past to anybody. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:19]: One of the things that comes to mind is this journey that you've been on is, is also a health journey in many different ways. Not only going from the brink of where your doctor told you that, that you were on the verge of being on a transplant list and possibly leading toward death, to now being in a much different place. And I know that when you turn 49, you decision to do your first triathlon and now you're starting to share some of that exercise and health journey with your daughter. So tell me a little bit more about that journey for you. Matt Strain [00:18:54]: So when I was 49, full disclosure, I got picked up in 2021 as a brand ambassador for a particular non alcoholic beer brewery. And they're very involved in the fitness space and they issued a challenge over Memorial Day weekend. And the idea was that you had three days to do their version of a triathlon. You had to swim for 30 minutes and they didn't care what you were doing. You could swim laps, you could play Marco Polo, just as long as you were moving. And in the water, you had to bike for 30 miles however you wanted, and you had to run, crawl, walk, hike, whatever, for three miles. And I did all of it at the gym because I didn't own a bike. And they had a pool and there was a treadmill, and my wife was working one of those days, so I couldn't go that day because I wasn't quite comfortable with bringing my kids to the gym yet, because while masking and protocols were going relatively well, My wife works in the emergency department of the hospital, so she was on the front lines during COVID And our biggest fear was that we were going to be the vectors spreading it to our community. Matt Strain [00:20:01]: So we isolated ourselves as much as we could. And I made sure that anytime I went out, I was wearing a mask, not so much to protect me, but because I was always concerned that she could bring something home from the hospital. And I didn't want to be Typhoid Mary. I ended up doing it in two days. One day, I swam laps for 30 minutes and got out and then did three miles on the treadmill. And the next day I went back and rode a stationary bike for 30 miles. And after I'd done it, in return for doing that, I got a free case of their beer. So, apparently, exercise is much more of a priority when I'm getting bribed with something that tastes good. Matt Strain [00:20:37]: But I told my wife, if I can do this in two days, there's no reason why I wouldn't be able to do all of this in one day. And to her credit, she did look me straight in the eye and say, well, yeah, but why in the world would you want to? And I laughed, and I said, well, you know, I'm 49. I should do something epic. I'm too. Before I turn 50, I'm too smart to jump out of a plane. I already own a motorcycle. This seems doable. And she laughed, and she said, sure, why don't you actually buy a bicycle and ride it outside before you jump all over this? And so I did. Matt Strain [00:21:06]: I bought a bike, and I started riding around the neighborhood and decided I was going to go through with it. And I finally did my first one, and it was painful. And there were a lot of points during that race that I questioned a lot of life decisions that brought me to that point. I finished dead last. Dead last by over half an hour compared to the person who came in second to last. Literally, the plan was to do it once, check it off the list, and never do it again. And about two days later, all I could Think of is, when's the next, When's the next? So the next year I ended up doing five. The year after that I did four more. Matt Strain [00:21:39]: Two Sundays ago, I did my 15th race. Now I've only been doing the sprint and Olympic distance. I'm not doing the long format, 70.3 and 140.6 races yet. That's the goal down the road, but we have to build up to that. However, while I was doing this, my daughter started saying, you know, one day I want to do a triathlon too. And I remember laughing and saying, well, you know, the first thing we got to do is get the training wheels off your bikes. I'm pretty sure they don't let you race with training wheels. And she was like, yeah, that's true. Matt Strain [00:22:09]: So about two years ago, we were out at the park and she's made up her mind. She was ready to take training wheels off. And we took the training wheels off and she took her about two or three tries and she got it down and was absolutely hooked on the bike. And so she and I started going on bike rides together. I think our first long ride, we did a 10 mile ride on a local greenway. Here I am riding a tricked out triathlon bike and she's riding a Disney Frozen single speed huffy and did 10 miles. I was blown away by how tough she was. Granted, the complaints started at about mile eight, but like I told her, the car's two miles that way. Matt Strain [00:22:47]: There's only one way to get there so we can rest, but we got to keep going. And she got hooked and absolutely loved it. And then I stumbled across a group this past spring called Girls on the Run, which is a wonderful nonprofit that works with girls that are in third through fifth grade. And they work on positive body image and self confidence and all the rest of it using running as a teaching element. And the idea is that the girls sign up for it. They do two practices a week for like six or eight weeks. And at the end of it, all the girls run a 5k together. And it's a real 5k, not just one. Matt Strain [00:23:24]: For the girls on the run, they do like, like a community 5k with people from all over. So needless to say, they don't just turn third to fifth graders loose in a crowd of grown adults. Each girl is required to have a running buddy. Now, the girls are welcome to choose some of the coaches. They're welcome to bring anybody they want. My daughter asked if I would be her running buddy, and I'm not gonna lie, I Teared up. I was so absolutely touched. I'm like, absolutely. Matt Strain [00:23:48]: I will do that. We're gonna do it. It's gonna be great. And the two of us went and we ran it. We had a great experience. I've got amazing pictures of the whole thing. She's got glitter on her face and they do happy hair where they put like little hair extensions and barrettes that are fun colors. And they put temporary hair dye on the girl's hair so that they can make a big thing out of it. Matt Strain [00:24:11]: And we did this 5k. And on her very first ever time running a 5k for practice with the girls on the run fold. She ended up doing it in a little over an hour, which for those who aren't familiar, It's a, a 3.1 mile run. An hour's a long time, but again, she's got short legs. So that's what I went into the race expecting. We finished the race, the two of us, in 38 minutes and change. On race day, I was a little jealous because my first ever 5k was a little over 50 something minutes long. And it took me two years to build up to a sub 40 minute. Matt Strain [00:24:47]: And she got it on her very first one. But she had a blast. And we came home that night and she informed me, that's it, I want to sign up for a kids triathlete. And I said, are you sure? And she's like, absolutely. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna sign us up, but you're committed once I push this button. And she's like, I'm gonna do it. So we found a local. Well, I say local, it's gonna be about a two hour drive away, but we're, we've got a little vacation planned around it, but we're gonna do a triathlon where they're doing an adult triathlon that starts at 7 in the morning and then at 9 in the morning they're doing a kid's TR, which is significantly shorter distance. Matt Strain [00:25:23]: But again, the idea is to get the kids involved in this when they're young so that they learn to enjoy it and continue doing it throughout their lives and maybe move into it more in adulthood. I think the distances for her race is it's 100 yard swim followed by like a two mile bike ride and then maybe like a half a mile or so on the run. Whereas the adult version of it for the same thing is going to be 3 or 400 yards swimming, followed by like a 13 mile bike ride followed by a 5k or 3.1 mile run. But her big thing is that she wants to compare where I place in my age group to where she places in her age group to see who's better. My answer is it's going to be her because she is young and has a whole lot more endurance than I do. But I'm just excited that she wants to share this with me. Since then we've gone out, we've gotten her a bike that's like multi speed and all the rest of it that actually fits her. Took two tries to find one. Matt Strain [00:26:22]: The first one fit her but she couldn't reach the brake. And you do need to be able to use the brakes on the bike. So we found it, we found a second one that she could reach the brakes on and mine's hanging on the wall behind me. And again, it's really nice to be able to look up on like a Saturday afternoon and decide that we're gonna have dad daughter time. And the two of us grab our bikes and our helmets and put some water in the water bottles and we go out and hit a local green one and we go ride bikes for a while while. And we don't. I mean yeah, we chit chat a little bit again. For anybody who's ever done like training riding, at a certain point it gets harder to talk because you're tired and huffing and puffing. Matt Strain [00:26:59]: But we make pit stops and we can talk during that time. But honestly, it's just nice to have an 11 year old daughter that wants to spend time with me because again we've entered that age. I've been told multiple times that I am cringe and I'm sure it's going to get worse as she moves into middle school school. But I found something that we can share and that we can bond over and I want to make sure it stays that way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:23]: You know, it's always so important to be able to find those things that you can share together. My oldest daughter and I, we cycle together, we run together, we enjoy hiking and getting outside. My youngest daughter and I do other things because her interests are not the same. Our kids are different and you have to figure out what it makes them light up and allow for them to many times drive the boat per se. So it is great to hear that you found some of that path for yourself with Lily and being able to create those special memories and special bonds together. We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection six where I ask you six more questions to delve into you and your relationship. With your daughter a little bit more. Are you ready? Matt Strain [00:28:07]: Sure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:07]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Matt Strain [00:28:12]: Powerful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:12]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Matt Strain [00:28:16]: Nobody's perfect that you're gonna make mistakes. Roll with it. Admit your mistake. Apologize. If you need to apologize to your kids for the mistakes that you make and don't make them again. The same kind of things that we try to teach our kids. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:31]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Matt Strain [00:28:34]: Oh, definitely riding bikes. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:35]: Now, if you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Matt Strain [00:28:40]: Be you don't change for anyone. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:42]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Matt Strain [00:28:46]: That there's so much more to life than just me. I know it's cliche, but prior to having kids, so much of my life was wrapped up around what I want, what I need, where I want to be. It was a lot of I, I, I. And when I became a father, suddenly that went away. Don't get me wrong, there are still things that I want out of life, but the priority is no longer me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:12]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Matt Strain [00:29:20]: Find a place where you can meet your daughter where she is, not where you want to meet her. I got lucky in the fact that I had a hobby and my daughter decided that she liked that hobby. There wasn't any guarantees that that was going to be the case. It could have very well been that my daughter decided that what she really love, being a cheerleader or something. And if that was the case, I was going to be the best cheerleader dad out there. And I was going to be there with her. I was going to cheer her on and support her and share that with her. Because if you can share in what they love, that's where you're going to connect. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:56]: Well, Matt, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey today. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go? Matt Strain [00:30:04]: I have an Instagram AT account. It's called Daddy's Not Drinking where it's largely about being a dad. Lately there's been a lot of posts about scouting because my son got into Cub Scouts and has decided that dad needs to move into the leadership of the local scouting community. So there's a decent amount about that. There's also a lot about triathlon and non alcoholic beer and regularly about what sober life looks like because it's not quite as boring as I thought it would be. It's actually a whole lot better than I thought it would be. But, yeah, that would be the easiest place again for anybody else who's an at home dad. And for the record, that that doesn't mean just stay at home parents. Matt Strain [00:30:44]: Anybody who is an involved dad and a primary caregiver to their kids, they are at home dads. I got involved with the national At Home dad network when my daughter was about 2, almost 3 years old, and my son hadn't been born yet. And that that community of dads has been a huge lifeline for me and anybody who's interested. Their website is literally at home dad.org they do a lot of great stuff, both virtually and then once a year in person, they do a big convention, which is literally professional development for professional dads. This year it's happening in San Antonio, Texas on September 11th through the 13th, but all the details are on the website. Great. And I'm also on Facebook just with my name, Matt Strain, if any of you are actually still on Facebook. I know it's kind of corny and all, but honestly, there's a whole lot of people that that's the connection I have with them. Matt Strain [00:31:37]: And as much as I would love to just get off of it, there's things that Facebook is good at. You just got to ignore the noise. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:43]: Well, there's a lot of noise on all of the social media platforms, so that Facebook is not the only place where that happens, so. Well, Matt, I just want to say a thing. Thank you. Thank you again for sharing your journey today. We'll put links in the notes today, but I truly wish you all the best as you continue this journey that you're on with Lily and your son. And look forward to hearing more about not only this triathlon, but many to come in the future. Matt Strain [00:32:08]: Thanks. And thank you for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:10]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build strong, stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:32:41]: We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing faster than time goes by Just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be can be.

In a special episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down for a heartfelt conversation with Michele Filgate, editor of the new anthology What My Father and I Don't Talk About, and two of the book's contributors, Susan Muaddi Darraj and Joanna Rakoff. Their discussion dives deep into the intricate, emotional, and sometimes complicated relationships between fathers and daughters—and why these connections matter. The episode opens with all three guests sharing luminous memories of their fathers: trips to bookstores and theaters, bonding over poetry, or learning life skills under a car's hood. These small moments, they reveal, helped shape their identities and instilled confidence, independence, and a profound sense of being seen. Whether it's Michelle's story of her dad sightseeing at news stations to support her journalism dreams, Susan's father teaching her to be self-sufficient, or Joanna recollecting her father's irrepressible optimism despite family tragedy, the stories resonate with authenticity and vulnerability. A powerful theme throughout the conversation is the diversity—the "spectrum"—of fatherhood. The guests discuss how no two parent-child relationships are the same, and how the book's essays echo this truth. The episode also delves into how culture, memory, and generational dynamics play pivotal roles in shaping both closeness and distance within families. For immigrant daughters like Susan, a father's traditions and sacrifices root identity and values; for Joanna, storytelling was both a magic veil and a way to process hidden family pain. The conversation is not just about nostalgia; it's about growth, honesty, and the hope that openness leads to better understanding. The guests reflect candidly on how writing about their childhoods and their fathers challenged them as both daughters and parents, inspiring them to be more transparent with their own children. Essential advice emerges: listen deeply, let your daughters into your world, and foster mutual trust. The episode's warmth and wisdom are a reminder that strengthening father-daughter relationships isn't about being perfect—it's about showing up, being present, and truly listening. Whether you're a dad, a daughter, or simply curious about family relationships, this episode promises thoughtful stories, practical advice, and a boost of inspiration. Listen now and discover new ways to connect and grow alongside those you love. Ready to deepen your connection? Tune in to this moving conversation on the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I am so excited that you're back with us again this week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: As always, every week, we have a great opportunity to be able to learn and to grow and to find new ways to build stronger connections with our daughters. And that's why I come back every week, and I know you come back every week, is to find those new ways and to identify new thoughts and perspectives. Because every week I love being able to bring you different people with different perspectives that can provide you with some new tools for your toolbox that will allow you to think about things in different ways and to allow for you to be able to bring those new learnings to the interactions that you're having with your own daughters. And today, we've got three great guests. We don't always have three people here, but we have three great guests today, and I'm really excited to have them here. We're gonna be talking about a brand new book that is out there called what My Father and I Don't Talk About. And this is a book that brings together 16 different writers, and in each of these chapters, they are speaking to the journey that they had with their own father and really how it allowed for them to become who they were. So it is an anthology. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]: It follows the success of another book called what My Mother and I Don't Talk about, which was very popular when that came out. And it is definitely a nonfiction book that allows for you to get a better understanding of of that fatherhood journey and how that fatherhood journey impacts daughters in different ways. So we're gonna be talking about that book, but our guests today are the editor of the book, Michele Filgate, and then two of the authors, Susan Moady Dhiraj and Joanna Rakoff. I'm really excited to have all three of them here today to talk about their own journeys. And to help you in your journeys with your own daughters. Thank you so much for being here today. Michele Filgate [00:02:56]: Thank you for having us. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:02:58]: Thank you. Joanna Rakoff [00:02:58]: Thanks so much. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:59]: I'm really excited to have you here today. And whenever I have daughters on the show, I always love to start the conversation with an opportunity to get to not only know your father a little bit better, but also get a better understanding of your own relationship and how that impacted you in different ways. So one of the questions that I would ask all three of you is, as you think back to the relationship with your own father, what's one thing that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter? Michele Filgate [00:03:34]: I would say that my dad used to take me to my local Barnes and Noble growing up and let me buy books. And that was always just. I loved that experience. He would go and he would go to the magazine stand because my dad would like to. He's a musician, and he would buy, like, Billboard Magazine, but he'd let me go browse the book section and buy a few books for me. And that was always a special experience to go to the bookstore with him and feel like he was supporting my bookworm habit and also creating the writer that I would become years later. Joanna Rakoff [00:04:09]: Similarly, my dad was a former actor and comedian, and he had grown up in the theater. His father was a theater critic. The Yiddish theater, I should explain, but also the mainstream theater. And from my earliest childhood, I grew up around. Around New York. Took me to the theater with him. We went to the movies together, usually once or twice a week. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of actors, directors, screenwriters, playwrights. Joanna Rakoff [00:04:34]: And after those jaunts, after going to a Broadway show, we would go to Chock Full of Nuts, which something only New Yorkers probably remember, and have a sandwich or Danish and talk through everything. We would sort of talk through what we liked, what we didn't like. And I think sharing his enthusiasms and his loves with me and bringing me into them, making me a part of them, was so integral to my becoming a person who was okay with being myself, if that makes sense. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:05:10]: That's so beautiful. My story is not that different, but my father never was able to go to college. He was an immigrant. He came to the United States in 1967. And I'm his eldest child and his only daughter, so I'm like the eldest daughter. We are a specific tribe of people, eldest daughters. And my father, even though he loves poetry and he writes poetry, was never really able to pursue that. He had to sort of work as soon as he arrived in the country. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:05:37]: And he became a car mechanic for many years. And so I grew up kind of like just around him at his garage, and I would help hand him tools and things like that. And one thing I remember specifically, we would talk a lot while he was working on cars. And I remember specifically when I started to drive. I have three younger brothers. And so I was the lucky one that I was the first to do everything right. Like, I was the first one that he taught to drive. When he was teaching me how to drive, I was a very good driver. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:06:04]: And then when I got my license, I thought, that's it. I have my license. I can do whatever I want. And he made me. He would open the hood of the car and he said, you're not driving until you can do these things. And he would make me learn how to change the oil, how to change a tire, how to jack up the car by myself. And I was like, why do I have to do this? I have a license. Can't I just get behind the wheel and drive? And what he was teaching me was he told me, I want you to always know that you're capable and that you have to be independent and that you are able to do these things, like, nothing should ever make you afraid. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:06:41]: And I don't remember any of my other friends in school having their father do that, which at the time I thought was not a great thing. But now I. And I realize I always grew up thinking I was capable. I never once in my life imagined I was incapable of anything. And I think it's because of the way that he treated me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]: All three amazing stories and definitely so important to build that confidence in our daughters in that way. I guess looking back, as you think about, again, your father, was there a moment where your dad's support or guidance had a significant impact on your growth or your confidence. And it may be similar, Susan, to what you just said, or maybe something different. Michele Filgate [00:07:24]: I have a really vivid memory of my father, really encouraged my love of journalism. So in college, I was a journalism major. And when I was a kid, we were at Subway sandwich shop, and he saw Carol Jenkins there, who at the time was one of the anchors on NBC in New York City. And I grew up in a small town in Connecticut, an hour outside of the city. So he brought me over to. To meet her, and she invited me to come to NBC and shadow her for the day with my father. When I was probably 10 years old or 11. I can't remember the exact age, but that became a really important relationship for me. Michele Filgate [00:08:02]: And it was so special that I got to do that with my dad. My dad always loved watching the news, and he wanted to support whatever I was interested in doing. So he came with me. And I still remember, you know, us getting a picture together with Carol Jenkins and Chuck Scarborough and Al Roker and it was. And Sue Simmons, who was there at the time, too. And it was such a pivotal experience for me. And then I ended up going on to be an intern at 60 Minutes when I was in college for Ed Bradley and two of his producers. And after college, I worked for the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric for my first job out of college. Michele Filgate [00:08:41]: So I just vividly remember, like, once I was there, how much my father's influence and voice was in my head. I was so nervous the first day as an intern, and then again the first day, this job right out of college where I'm the production secretary helping organize Katie Couric scripts. And I kind of felt like I was in Broadcast News the movie. I was so excited. And my father wore a CBS News hat and was bragging about me to all of his friends. He was just really proud of me. And so whenever I feel. Felt really scared or nervous, I just remembered that I just heard my dad's voice in my head. Michele Filgate [00:09:20]: I felt like he was there with me, just like he was there with me when I was a little girl going to visit Carol, who became such an important mentor to me as well. So I feel like my dad helped connect me, helped set me on the path for building my confidence in myself, and that was invaluable. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:09:36]: I remember when I was in high school again, I grew up in a very working class family, and there was. We just did not have a lot of money to go around. And so the question of college was always. There was always a big question mark on that situation. I had three siblings younger than myself, and there was a lot of talk in immigrant families when people are sort of struggling to make it. There's always this question of to whom should we throw our resources? Should we. We have four children. Can we give a lot of money to one to go to college? How can we work that and be fair? And I graduated at the top of my class, and I was excelling in English and literature studies. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:10:13]: And my father had bought me a typewriter at one point, which was a big deal to have a typewriter when I was younger. And then later he bought me a word processor. I remember it was like this thing with a little Tiny screen. It was like a big deal for me to have one. And he said, this is for you to type your stories and your essays and because you're going to be a writer. But when it was time, when I was graduating from high school, there was a lot of talk in the wider family about. People would tell my father, maybe you shouldn't send her to. You should save the money for the younger children. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:10:44]: And he asked me, do you want to go to college? And I said, yes. And he said, okay, well, we're going to make it work. And we did, and he did. And he took on extra shifts, and my mother worked as well. And so I'm very grateful that they believed in me. It's a very surprising thing. I'm the first girl in my entire family to go to university. It was a really big deal for us as a family, as a wider community. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:11:06]: So I'm very grateful for his support in me and his belief in me. Joanna Rakoff [00:11:10]: Oh, my God, Susan, I'm, like, about to cry. What I have to say about my father is so much less cataclysmic than either unmomentous than either of the things you two discussed, but I'll just say so. I was born in 1972, and my parents were, for the time they were, you know, kind of geriatric. They were in their 40s. And a year before I was born, my parents had lost two children, my older brother and sister, who were 12 and 14. And I had one. Their oldest, my oldest sister was still around, so she was 18 when I was born. And so I was born into this family that had just suffered this horrible, horrible loss. Joanna Rakoff [00:11:51]: And I grew up not knowing about this loss. But, and this is the important part, my mother was, of course, incapacitated by the loss of these two children. And she was a person who I found out as a grownup had suffered a lot of loss prior to this and had had a pretty. This is what my essay is about. Had had a pretty difficult upbringing, but my father was, you know, he had been a comedian. He is a very, by nature, cheerful, buoyant, incredibly resilient person. And he was able to bring that cheerfulness, that good humor that what my mom would later call, after he died, the shining light of his love into every aspect of my day. And I don't know what I am by nature. Joanna Rakoff [00:12:42]: Like, I don't know if I'm resilient by nature. I don't know if I'm cheerful by nature at all, because I think being raised by him led me to Be a person who felt that I could face anything, that I could overcome anything. A friend of mine once described me as someone who could always spin straw into gold. And. And I was shocked when she said that. But while writing the essay from Michelle, I thought about the ways in my father's approach to life and the ways in which he was always there for me and the ways in which he was never afraid of strong or negative emotions in a way that my mother would just shut down. Like if I started to cry, she would say, stop crying. Stop crying this instant. Joanna Rakoff [00:13:28]: Stop crying right now. Stop crying. And my father would just hold me in his arms and listen to what was wrong. So more subtle, but something. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:13:37]: Now I'm crying. Joanna Rakoff [00:13:39]: Me too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:41]: I really appreciate all three of you sharing those stories. Now I think I'd love for you to reflect back and think about that perfect day. If you could spend an entire day still with your dad doing anything, what would that look like? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:13:55]: So my father, as I said, he loves poetry. And I'm so lucky to have my father. He just turned 80 in December, so he loves poetry. And he has committed to memory entire poems and Arabic poems. His first language is Arabic. Just like massive quantities of poetry that he can just call up. And he told me once I do that because when I was working in my shop, I would just recite poetry to pass the time as I was working, I couldn't stop and consult the book. So I just committed it to memory. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:14:26]: So his memory is incredible. And I remember when I was growing up and I was still living in my parents home, he would walk around the house just kind of reciting poems and he would stop me, I would be walking from like my bedroom to the bathroom and he would say, susan, stop, listen to this stanza. And he would like recite the stanza. And at the time when I was a teenager, I was like, I really need to do my hair and get to school. Like, I have things to do. But now I think if I could spend the whole day with him, I would just sit and listen to him. I wouldn't even say anything. I would just listen and let him recite poetry to me. Joanna Rakoff [00:14:59]: My dad passed away a long time ago, and in his final years, he had a neurological ailment that is not that well known, but it manifests as Parkinson's. Like if you met him, you would think he had Parkinson's, essentially. And so he was radically incapacitated in his last year. And so when I think about, like, if I could spend a day with him, I. I think if I Could spend a day with the him before this disease wrecked him. He was a person who was so adventurous and active, and he loved to travel. He traveled all over the world. He joined the Air Force right after he finished dental school. Joanna Rakoff [00:15:37]: And when he enlisted, he wrote on his application, he got drunk when he filled it out, and even though he wasn't a big drinker and wrote, I am only joining if you will send me somewhere in Western Europe in all caps. And so they sent him to Germany, and he used the two years that he was stationed there to travel to every single country in Europe except Spain and Portugal. I don't know why. Maybe he just didn't get there. And so if I could spend just one day with him, I think that I would spend it doing as many of the things that he loved to do. Like, he loved to play golf and tennis. He loved to take long walks in the woods. He loved to hit a handball against a court. Joanna Rakoff [00:16:15]: Like, he was really. He was a huge athlete. He played college basketball for City College. I would spend some time doing something like that with him, despite having not inherited his athletic ability. I would go to the driving range. He loved food. I would take him to eat a pastrami sandwich and a pickle, and then maybe I would take him to the movies and then get ice cream and talk about that movie and what was terrible in it and which actors were miscast and which were not and what scenes he would rewrite. And I would then take him to spend the rest of the day with as much of our family as I could. Joanna Rakoff [00:16:52]: He was really, really close, even with my mom's side of the family, with her cousins, and he loved nothing more than a massive family gathering. Michele Filgate [00:16:59]: I'm gl. I'm not wearing mascara right now during this podcast recording because didn't expect it to get so emotional listening to Joanna and you, Susan. Oh, my gosh. Joanna Rakoff [00:17:10]: Same. Michele Filgate [00:17:11]: Yeah. My father is still around, too, but I think that a perfect day would be going to a place that is no longer a place we can go to for us. So it would be. My grandmother and I wrote about this in my essay for the book. My grandmother, my dad's mom, passed away in 2019, and her home, she was the matriarch of the family, and her home was the gathering place for our family. And the house no longer belongs to our family. But when my parents were still married, when I was really young, we lived with my grandmother there. So that is my childhood home, and it was on a lake, and it now belongs to a new family. Michele Filgate [00:17:53]: And that's still so hard to wrap my head around. And I think, and I know that it's hard for my dad, too. Like, he's talked to me about driving past it and seeing, like, the house and the feelings, how emotional he gets seeing the house and knowing it no longer is in our family. And I think about our family home videos, how my dad was so obsessed with On Golden Pond, the movie that he somehow. I don't even know how he did this, except he had a recording studio, so he must have figured out how to do this. But he put on our home videos from, like, this was back in the 90s. He put, like, this soundtrack from On Golden Pond, like, over images of, like, me and my dad and I have siblings as well, and, like, of us walking down the road toward that lake. Windwing is what it's called. Michele Filgate [00:18:40]: And so I think that a perfect day with my dad would be watching that movie again On Golden Pond, because it just makes me think of my childhood and the beauty of that lake. And it would be going for a walk around the lake with him and also driving to a place that no longer exists. A lot of my core memories from my childhood are my dad driving me to the. This little market that was called Peach Lake Market in nearby. In North Salem, New York, like, just over the border of Connecticut. And it was this little country market store where I would get a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich, and I'd buy an Archie comic or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I'm really showing my age here. And I feel like there was something about the containment of the car. Michele Filgate [00:19:24]: Like, that was where we could just be ourselves with each other. It was easier than, like, sitting down and having a conversation, you know? And so I would. I would do that. I would spend a day doing that, of going to a place that no longer exists except in my mind, and a home that still exists, but is no longer in my family. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:45]: I want to transition into talking about the book. And each of you have talked a little bit about the stories with your own dad. And in the book, you bring those stories to the forefront. And, you know, as an author, myself, as someone that has gone through that process, I've been an editor as well. So I truly appreciate the work, Michelle, that you put into bringing all of those different writing styles, different stories together. And I guess, Michelle, first, before I even talk about your essay that you submitted, you know, this book follows the success of the book that I mentioned earlier. What my mother and I don't talk about. Why was it important for you to create a companion volume that focused on fathers. Michele Filgate [00:20:29]: It felt like a natural fit. And also while I was touring around the country for the first book back in 2019, and then when the book went viral twice on TikTok, in those viral social media posts and when I was on tour, I kept hearing from people again and again saying, I want a book about fathers. I need a book about fathers. So. And I also feel like we're now in a time where there is a focus on fatherhood and looking at it in a more nuanced way, we're starting to see, even in pop culture, we're seeing new portrayals of what fatherhood can look like and allowing men to be more vulnerable and to kind of break the mold of what fatherhood like has traditionally always looked like. So I wanted to have a book that looked at the wide spectrum of different experiences with fathers. And I felt like that was really. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: Important in reading the book and in looking at all of the different essays you had to curate all of those. As an editor, what themes or contradictions about fatherhood surprised you the most across that contributions? Michele Filgate [00:21:37]: A lot of people have asked me about what has surprised me. I feel like as a writer and a reader, as a. And as a human, nothing has really surprised me just because I expect fatherhood to not look just one way. Right. I expect to see a lot of different versions of fatherhood and what fatherhood can look like. But I think it's more just that the individual essays that all the authors and this book really moved me with how open they were and how vulnerable they were on the page about portraying their own experiences. And I felt like everyone was really generous with writing about their father, and it allows the reader to really get to know their father. And I think it's so hard to turn a parent into a character on the page that then a stranger is going to read. Michele Filgate [00:22:27]: And I think that's a very difficult and challenging thing to do about someone who. Especially if it's someone who you knew really well. And so I think, for me, again, I don't know that I was surprised, but I was just moved by all of the different essays in here, whether the person had a good relationship with their dad or a terrible relationship. And there are a variety of pieces here, so there's something that will speak to everyone, I think. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:54]: Now, your essay, called Thumbs up, captures the fragmented but affectionate way that you and your father communicate, almost like as you kind of talk about two frogs on a lily pads. How did that image help you understand the rhythm of your relationship with him. Michele Filgate [00:23:10]: Yeah, I mentioned that the, you know, we're. Because we both have adhd, that it is like we're two frogs on lily pads when we're talking and we're always skipping from topic to topic. That helped me understand the. The ways in which we communicate and we don't communicate and that these texts my dad sends, these messages he sends me on Facebook or the texts he sends me on my ph, or these phone calls, because that's a lot of what my piece is about, and it's called Thumbs up after his favorite emoji. He loves to use the thumbs up emoji. I've learned that these are his ways of showing his love. And I often don't have deep conversations with my father, and I'm okay with that because I know that this is how we communicate and this is how we show our love for each other is through these quick phone calls, these quick messages where he. He's telling me to watch out for sharks when I'm not anywhere near the ocean. Michele Filgate [00:24:02]: I've really come to appreciate just his sense of humor and his quirkiness and the ways in which he shows his love. And ever since my Uncle Jim took his own life in 2019, he was my dad's best friend, and he's really tried to fill that hole in his life by calling his three adult daughters all the time. And so a lot of times at very inconvenient times, like when I'm in a zoom meeting, I'm surprised he hasn't called right now recording this podcast, but I think that that image of the frogs really helped me also with just structuring my essay, because it does kind of leap from section to section. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:38]: You know, the loss of your uncle definitely reshaped your father's behavior based on what you wrote. And your piece becomes quite a quiet elegy to sibling connection. How did witnessing that relationship affect how you view your father now as a man, a brother, and a dad? Michele Filgate [00:24:58]: My uncle was younger than him. My dad was the oldest of four boys. But I feel like my uncle kind of took on the older brother role with my dad a lot. And so with Uncle Jim gone, I think my dad has really had to take on that older brother role for the first time. In some ways, it was everything to me because I saw that deep, unconditional love he had for my Uncle Jim is similar to the deep, unconditional love he has for his daughters and his son. And so it was an important thing for me to witness. And going through that grief together was heartbreaking with the loss of Uncle Jim. And then Mimo a few months. Michele Filgate [00:25:41]: She died three months after. Meemo was my grandmother, as she died three months after Uncle Jim. So our family went through this really terrible year, personally. But it also made me realize how important our memories are. They're everything, right? Thinking about what we're talking about today, even with Susan talking about your dad memorizing these poems, I think our memories are so crucial. They are part of our legacy, which is why it's so devastating when people lose their memories, because memories are such a core part of us and also the objects that we have. I write about that a lot in my essay, too, that my father kind of has his shrine in his office. And I think a lot of dads are like this, like these objects that remind them of their unique. Michele Filgate [00:26:26]: And I have kind of inherited that as well, because it's these things that become sort of totems that remind me of that unconditional love from my father, from my grandmother, from my uncle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:38]: Now, toward the end of your essay, you reflect, like you said, on memory, on keepsakes and preserving scent or feeling through physical objects. What role do these rituals of memory play in how you understand your father's and your own emotional legacy? Michele Filgate [00:26:54]: I think memories, they help us reflect on what we've been through, right? And also, as we're holding on to memories, they're kind of shifting, too. I talk about this as a teacher when I teach writing. When we're writing about our own lived experience, we kind of change that memory a little bit when we write it, because then our memories become the story that we told rather than just that lived experience, rather than just that memory. And so I think that our memories are transformed when we tell them, whether we write them down or when we're sharing them with others, they're like living memories. They're reshaped somehow. So I think about that a lot, too. And that kind of goes with this idea, too, that I feel like everyone in this book and in the first anthology, if you ask them to write about their same parent five years from now, that what they write might be very different based on where they are in their lives and how their relationship has changed. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:50]: Now, Susan, you wrote a piece called Baba Peels Apples for Me. And your piece delves into, as you mentioned earlier, the eldest daughter syndrome in a Palestinian American household. How did your father's cultural expectations shape your early sense of responsibility and identity? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:28:09]: So I think it took me a long time to understand that my father is actually. He's essentially a refugee, and he's been through a lot of trauma, and he's experienced a tremendous loss, which is having to leave his homeland. And that in that loss, like, you know, there's a lot committed to memory, as you said, Michelle. Like, I mean, I grew up hearing stories about my father and his childhood. In fact, when I've gone to his village, you know, I can actually look at an older building and I can say, oh, that's where Ibn Musa and my father played together. You know, I know these stories so well. It's almost like he's used his memory as, like, a way of documenting these things to us. But also he felt that, like, our culture, even though we were Americans now and he was raising American children, essentially, he felt that our culture was a way to ground us in something. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:28:59]: And some people do that with different things. Like, some people feel that their religion grounds them in something. My father is not really religious. We're a Christian family. But he's not like, really, as he would say, he hasn't really completely bought the whole organized religion thing. He's not really into it, so. But he's a spiritual person. But he felt that culture is a way of grounding you in something that's real, so that you know who you are and who you are might change. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:29:22]: But he felt that America was a wonderful country, but it was just such a big country with so many different people and different ideas. And so if you don't have something to ground yourself in, you might get lost, and who you are might change. Like, you might learn about another type of identity or another value system that you prefer more. But at least you're starting with something that's solid. And so he raised us with what are essentially the cultural values that he was raised with. And I'm grateful that he did. I have. I've kept many of them, and I've raised my children with many of them. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:29:55]: And many of them I have just turned away from and decided they're not for me. And I think I'm grateful for that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:01]: Now, you describe both distance and tenderness with your father like the scene of him peeling apples. How did writing this piece help you reconcile those emotional contradictions? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:30:12]: Well, I think the distance came from a lot of his fears. You know, my father, I think his greatest fear was that he would not be able to provide us with a life that was fulfilling. And he'd already lost so much that it was very important to him to provide us with a home and something that was lasting. So I grew up as the Eldest child, I think, being sort of the testing ground for those fears. It's hard to explain unless you've grown up with immigrant parents, that there's so much that they want to give you, and it's because they're afraid of losing it forever. Like, if they don't pass it on to you, like the language, the food, the values they feel if they don't pass these things on to you, these things are lost forever. And so the distance, what I learned as I became older, I just turned 50 this month. So as I became older, I learned. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:31:03]: Didn't take me till I was 50. I think I was about 30 when I realized that all that distance, that those tense moments were because he was afraid. And I think I said in my essay that we were kind of learning about living in America. At the same time. He didn't know American culture. I mean, he came here in 67. I was born in 75. And I'm very sure he and my mother planned to go back. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:31:25]: Like, they were waiting to be able to go back, but they were told they could never go back. And so to their shock, they realized they were going to be raising a family in this country that they were still not familiar with. And that's very scary. And that's where the tension and distance comes from. But my father is a very loving and openly loving person. I mean, I never. And my children never see my father without getting big hugs and kisses on the cheeks. And he's very, very emotional, and he shows his love in lots of different ways. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:31:53]: But he also is very direct and says, I love you. Sometimes he'll just text me and say, I love you. I hope you're having a good day. I mean, I'm very lucky to have grown up like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:02]: Speaking about those words, you mentioned the importance of language. How your father used Arabic endearments but also demanded silence or obedience. How has language, or lack of it, defined your relationship with him? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:32:18]: You said he demanded obedience. Even if it's interpreted like that. I would say even those things were because of his fears. Right. So, for example, he never wanted me in high school to date because he thought that dating was going to distract me from my studies and I would not have time for my studies. And then what would happen if I. I. And he didn't want me to go out late because he knew that his co workers, that their children would be out late. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:32:45]: And he would hear stories about how they came home drunk or they had car accidents. And this was like a major fear. Like, this was something that when I have teenagers myself and I worry about these things. But I think for him, this was such a shocking thing that he was afraid that I would be harmed or I would. So and so he clamped down. Right. The language issue comes into play, I think, because he always spoke to me in Arabic, and sometimes when I was angry, I would answer him in English. Every immigrant, every child of immigrants knows that trick. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:33:16]: It's the most passive aggressive thing you can do if your parents are immigrants. But I think that his real true self came out when he was speaking in Arabic. Like he could find the exact words he wanted to use when he was using his own language. And he speaks fluent English, of course. He speaks it with a very heavy, very charming accent, which everybody loves when they talk to him. They're very charmed by it. But Arabic is definitely the language in which he best expresses himself and where all the nuanced things he wants to say are made clear when he speaks in Arabic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:49]: How do you see your role as a parent now, especially when reflecting on the inherited patterns from your father's parenting style? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:33:57]: Well, I'm raising an eldest daughter, and there are maybe some responsibilities I'm very careful not to. To not to put on her, although I do find myself really liking her. And she's like my. I call her my vice president because an eldest daughter. And maybe this is true for eldest sons too, I don't know. But there really is a sort of like second in command kind of energy that we bring to the table, I think, like my daughter, really. A lot of times if I need something, I don't even have to express what I need. She kind of looks at me, she says, oh, let me go to the car for you, or, or, hey, I can go pick up my brother. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:34:33]: Let me do that for you. So there's like this energy that she brings that I think my mother has said I had the same vibe when she was raising me. So that's kind of like a remarkable thing. But I try not to lean on that too much. It's easy to do it, but I try not to. I try to share with my children the values that I've kept from my upbringing, especially the value of, or the belief in themselves as capable people, no matter what they need to do, that they are capable people, that even if they. They fail, they can learn something from the failure. That's something my father taught me for sure, that even if you fail, there's a lesson you take from that and the next attempt will be a smarter attempt, a more strategic Attempt, whatever it might be. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:35:16]: So I think I've passed that on to my children. I hope I have. We'll see what they write about me in 25 years. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:22]: Now, Joanna, you wrote a piece called the Storybook Childhood, and your essay paints your father as a storyteller, both enchanting and elusive. How did his constant reinvention of truth affect your ability to trust narratives, both personal and professional? Joanna Rakoff [00:35:40]: Growing up, I was not aware that there was an elusive. That he had an elusive relationship to truth. I just believed everything he told me and did really feel that I myself had kind of a storybook childhood. That title refers to my mother's childhood, but I sort of bought the Kool Aid. I think, below the surface, I knew that there was something awry, that I wasn't being told the whole story, and also that there were things within me and things happening in my life that didn't fit the narrative of the Storybook Childhood. But I myself sort of squelched them down to kind of fit my father's defining narrative for our family. As an adult, as I've slowly come to understand that the kind of predominant story of my childhood and of our family was not what it seemed, I think that it's not made me in any way less trusting of other people, but it has made me a critic, which is to say I mentioned my father, and I would go to movies and critique them after. My father was also, perhaps ironically, perhaps not a huge, huge reader who loved criticism. Joanna Rakoff [00:36:52]: So he introduced me to Pauline Kael, the legendary film critic who he adored. He was a person who. He read the New Yorker every week, and he would read the Critic at Large section first. And so I then started doing that when I was maybe like 8 or 9 years old. I was very young, and my eldest child, who's 20, my son, who's not relevant to this podcast, he started doing the same thing in third grade. He started reading the New Yorker, the critics section first. And so I guess this is perhaps not a satisfactory answer, but I think that there's a way in which the kind of silent message of my childhood and my kind of coming of age and realizing that there was a lot below the surface was to regard everything in life with a critic's eye. And I think it's not a coincidence that I started life as a literary critic. Joanna Rakoff [00:37:40]: I thought that was what I wanted to be. I wanted to be like Lionel Trilling or T.S. eliot, except not racist and a Nazi, whatever. But I wanted to be a kind of high literary critic. And then when it Became clear that I wasn't cut out, out for academia, that I didn't want to continue on and get my doctorate, that I couldn't write in academic language. I became a book critic, basically, and also did theater criticism, food criticism, stuff like that. I think that I view the world through this critical lens, always thinking about what's the counter narrative, what's the story below the story, and also, what's going on behind the scenes, how was this made, what happened? And also, and here I am giving you, like, five levels of one little thing also. What are the sociocultural ideas that were in the back of the writer, the showrunner, the cinematographer's mind that shaped every aspect of this piece of culture? I can't watch anything, read anything, be privy to any piece of art without thinking about all of these things at once. Joanna Rakoff [00:38:40]: And I think that's really what happened to me from growing up in this family, where there's this one truth and then there were several of them, other truths lurking beneath it that were never spoken of. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:51]: Now you recount the storybook world your father created, often masking deeper wounds or realities. How did writing this piece help you uncover those layers of illusion? Joanna Rakoff [00:39:03]: This is a really unsatisfactory answer. That seems to be my theme for this round of questions. But the actual sitting down and writing of the essay and having to face these truths about my father is actually what allowed me to uncover those truths. As in, so I'm writing a whole book. My new book, which I'm under contract for, which is overdue, which is called the Fifth Passenger, is about essentially uncovering family secrets. And it's much more focused on the secret about my late brother and sister who. Whose lives and death were kept from me, which meant that many, many other things were kept from me, which meant that I didn't understand anything about my family. I didn't understand why my mother would burst into tears when I walked into the room. Joanna Rakoff [00:39:52]: I thought I was doing something wrong, that kind of thing. So it's focused on that. And in writing this essay, which is focused on another secret that plays into the book, in this particular book, I talk about my family, kind of of both my parents coming from a culture of secrecy for different reasons. My mom, you know, for the reasons that I discuss in the essay, that she grew up feeling ashamed of herself for existing. For listeners out there who, of course, haven't read the essay, my mother was born in 1930, and her father abandoned her mother in the hospital. And she was from a very small town. Her mother had moved to New York City, married, had her at a very young age, and was left with this infant and no one nowhere, no money, nothing. She had a big diamond ring, but that was it. Joanna Rakoff [00:40:41]: And so she went back home to her small town. And it was almost as if my mother's father, her biological father, had vanished. My mother was given her family as her maternal family's last name. And I understand now was kind of regarded as kind of a social pariah in this conservative small town. You know, the child of a single mother. No one knew anything and no one had ever, ever seen her father. And there's much more to it. But. Joanna Rakoff [00:41:07]: So she sort of grew up in this culture of secrecy, never talking about her father, never talking about her mother being a single mother, none of these things. And my father, on the other hand, was a red diaper baby. So his parents were communist. They were really socialists, but they were leaders in the Socialist party, they were labor activists. And during the McCarthy era, they didn't literally go underground, but they buried this part of their past. And my father has a 500 page FBI file, and he was an actual child when his, you know, he was either unborn or a child when his parents were engaged in these activities, but he still has that file. And everyone in my father's family, actually on both sides, has a huge FBI file. So no one ever spoke of this. Joanna Rakoff [00:41:51]: I actually only found out the real truth about this when my grandmother died and I inherited her apartment and I found all these papers and I was like, what is this? And my mother was like, don't talk about it. So they both come from these kind of cultures of secrecy, which I'm trying to investigate in the book. But the real point of my mentioning all this is just that I think there is something in my personality, maybe there's something in everyone's personality in which I really maybe just didn't want to know all of this, even though I'm writing a whole book about it. And I wrote a gazillion page proposal that I want worked on for years. And I've been working on this book for years. Part of me just doesn't want to know. Part of me just wants to think of my family as this happy family and wants to continue to drink the Kool Aid. And so writing this essay for Michelle was really difficult. Joanna Rakoff [00:42:37]: I really didn't want to write it. I really, really avoided telling the truth about my mom's childhood, about my father manufacturing these layers and layers, layers of lies about it. And I guess this is one of the things that Happens when you write memoir. I'm not. I'm really a novelist. I'm not a natural memoirist. Maybe I don't like to tell the truth. I don't like to uncover hard truths. Joanna Rakoff [00:42:59]: But having to sit down and actually work on it, which I really did under duress, one of my closest friends basically, like, kidnapped me and brought me to her country house and like, locked me away until I wrote a draft of it. Forced me to kind of figure out my own feelings about this, and also helped me figure out out who I am as a mother and a wife. And what do I do? My husband read the essay. One of the. There were many drafts of it, but one of the earlier drafts, and he said, the thing that you're leaving out here is how you're culpable in this kind of family tradition of aggrandizing the past and aggrandizing your family and glamorizing your family members, including your father. And he was sort of saying, you're doing the same thing that your dad did for our kids. You're making your father and your mother into these larger than life glamorous figures. And I thought, oh, my God, he's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:54]: Completely right, you know, in speaking about that and being a parent today. How has your father's fondness for storytelling influenced the way that you do communicate truth or fiction with your own children? And in writing this, has it affected or impacted or changed the way in which you now reflect and talk with your kids? Joanna Rakoff [00:44:18]: Writing this really did change the way I talk with my kids, definitely. I think I made a conscious effort to be more transparent with them in every way, to not sugarcoat things, to not talk about my family and the past in sort of sepia toned images, to kind of go behind those. My parents were both very attractive people, and we have all these, like, glamorous photos of them and glamorous clothing, and my son loves to pull them out and look at them. And I feel like there's a sort of really powerful metaphor in that. In that those images only tell one part, one very small part of a huge emotional, socio, cultural, historical, economic history. And I think I really have become aware of the need to be as honest and to put things in context for my kids and to not exaggerate things in either direction. You know, to not sort of lapse into the kind of stories my dad told about his gritty childhood on the Lower east side, being chased by gangs and all of that. Like, to sort of try to tell them the truth as I know it, rather than Perpetuating these almost cinematic myths that of course have a lot of truth to them. Joanna Rakoff [00:45:39]: My father wasn't lying to me about his childhood, about his family's life. He just was kind of leaving things out and making things more the way he wanted them to be or the more exciting, as exciting as they could be. So I try very hard not to do this. I think prior to writing this essay I was much less conscious of this tendency and bought into a little bit more of the stories I had been told and also felt, I think my parents really felt like they needed to protect me. In fact, I know that they did. The reason they kept this secret about my late siblings was a feeling that they needed to protect me. I eventually found out that my mother wanted me never to be known as coming from this tragic family. What had happened to my family was not just tragic, it was very publicly tragic. Joanna Rakoff [00:46:24]: I now know. And we lived in a town, you know, everyone knew our family, we lived in the center of town. Parents were very active in all elements of the town, professionally and politically and. And my mother just didn't want me to have this specter chasing me. And that's part of the reason that she never told me about these things. And I think there's a layer of that to every aspect of what my parents told me about who I am and who our family was. And so I realized that part of that was generational, but that I had inherited that and that there were so many ways in which I tried to protect my kids, who I just want to mention, span in age between 9 and 20 with a 16 year old in between. So the 9 year old is really little. Joanna Rakoff [00:47:04]: And it is okay to protect her from. From things. Certainly it's okay to protect all of them from things, but I think that I in general started giving them all a lot more credit for being able to understand things than I had before. So thank you, Michelle, for making me a better parent. Michele Filgate [00:47:21]: It's really moving to hear, A little embarrassing for me. Joanna Rakoff [00:47:26]: I used to be one of those people who was like, writing is not therapy. And now I'm like, maybe it's a. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:47:32]: Little bit, but it's kind of the thing about parenting I'm thinking about, like, we don't know what we're doing when we're parents. Like, we really don't. Like, that's what I think I learned about my dad is he didn't know how to raise children, especially in a different country. We're all still learning, we're all still getting better and fine tuning our Parenting skills. And I love hearing that. It's so interesting. Joanna Rakoff [00:47:51]: Well, there's like, that Russian idea, the first pancake. I think the first person who mentioned it to me was M. Gessen, who used to be known as Masha Gessen, the writer and I introduced interviewed her so long ago, and she mentioned this concept of the first pancake, which is that the first child is the one where you're like, you have no idea what you're doing. You don't know if the griddle is too hot or too cool. So it could be burned, it could be undercooked and too pale. And then after that, all the pancakes turn out, like, perfectly browned and the right texture and that kind of thing. And you feel like, well, there is some truth to that. And hopefully the oldest one turns out. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:48:27]: Note, this is my eldest daughter thing. I'm telling you, it's real, it's true. Or eldest child syndrome. Yeah, that's so fascinating. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:48:35]: Well, I really appreciate all of you sharing your stories today. And we always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection 6. And I usually ask dads these questions, but I'm going to ask you these questions as well. First and foremost, what's one word that describes your relationship with your own father? Joanna Rakoff [00:48:52]: I feel like if I had to choose one word for my dad, the first thing that comes to mind is magical. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:48:58]: I would have to say it's an Arabic word, the word habibi, which a lot of people are familiar with. It just means my love. And it can refer to your significant other, to your child, to your parent. But it's a word I heard just growing up. Every single day I call my kids habibi. It's something we heard a lot. It captures so much, like, softness and tenderness. And that's the word that came to mind when you asked that question. Michele Filgate [00:49:22]: I think I would say creative, because my father, like I said, he has a background as a musician and he had a recording studio, and he's also a very talented artist, just as a hobby, not something he's pursued. So the word creative, what's the best. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:49:37]: Piece of dad advice you've ever received? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:49:40]: It's kind of a question that my dad would say, he would ask us all the time if I would say, I can't do this. He would say, who said you can't? And then that would lead to, like, a larger discussion of you're telling yourself you can't, but you don't even know that you can't. So he would always say, who says you Can't. So it's advice in the form of a question. I think. Michele Filgate [00:49:58]: I think for me, my father, I wouldn't say it's one specific thing he said, but he could always tell when I was with the wrong person. And it frustrated me because I didn't want my dad to weigh in on my love life. But he knew. He just knew. And so I wish I had listened to him over my many years of dating instead of just being scoffing and being like, it's my dad, he's not gonna be happy with anyone. I dare date. Because as soon as I met my husband, I just got married last year, he was immediately part of the family. And my dad loves my husband so much and Andy is like a son to him. Michele Filgate [00:50:34]: So I think that I wish I had listened to my dad sooner. Joanna Rakoff [00:50:38]: These are two kind of quotidian, pedestrian things. My family is not one for, like big proclamations or life changing pieces of advice or guidance. But we ate out a lot when I was a kid. I now know, I think, because my mom, mom was really not in the best state. And my mom somehow had this tendency, it was like she was a contrarian or something. So we would go to like a seafood restaurant in Maine and my mom would order a hamburger and it would be terrible. And my father would say, you gotta eat steak in a steakhouse. And there's a way in which, like, obviously this is just like very silly advice, but as the older I've gotten, I think about that all the time the way my mom always did that. Joanna Rakoff [00:51:18]: This. We would go to a steakhouse and she would order fish and be like, this isn't good and this restaurant is terrible. And my father would say, you gotta eat steak in a steakhouse. And it applies to so many things and it, you know, almost like any situation that you get yourself into, there's a way in which it boils down to, you should eat steak in a steakhouse. Even with romantic partners, Michelle, it's like you can't expect someone to be someone they're not. But conversation. Conversely, my dad was a very mischievous person and a very adventurous person who. He was the person who you'd be on the beach in Hawaii or wherever, staying at. Joanna Rakoff [00:51:55]: Not like the Four Seasons. And you'd take a walk along the beach and you'd see the pool at the Four Seasons and be like, let's just go in there and swim. And I'd be like, but dad, you know, we're not staying there. And he'd be like, they're not Gonna know. And you would. And it was almost always fine. Like, and he loved to go, shh, don't tell anyone. Like, don't tell anyone. Joanna Rakoff [00:52:13]: And I definitely. The older I've gotten, the more I've taken that, shh, don't tell anyone in that there are so many rules you can break that will make your life better, but that won't harm anyone and maybe will help people. And it just lends your life a little bit of a spark, in a way. But it also. As a writer, I have this whole talk that I give that started as a commencement speech for college, and I now give it different MFA programs and whatever that is called, Break every rule. And I realized that it came out of my dad saying this to me. And as a writer, you really do have to throw out all rules when you sit down and that sort of blank screen or blank, blank legal pad is in front of you. So I feel like that, shh, don't tell anyone. Joanna Rakoff [00:53:08]: Because no one's gonna know. No reader is gonna read your book and be like, oh, you're not supposed to have a lot of backstory at the front of the book. Like, no. You know, these rules that you learn, no one is ever going to know if you break them. They're just. If you write a great book or a great essay, they're just gonna be absorbed in it. Follow some rules, break all the others. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:53:26]: I love that so much. Michele Filgate [00:53:28]: Me too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:53:29]: Now I know. Susan and Joanna, you both have daughters. If you could give your daughter one life lesson in. In a single sentence, what would it be? Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:53:37]: I would tell her, you don't have to fix everybody. You don't have to fix people. It's not your job to fix people. I think, and I say this because growing up in my family, I was always helping, and I was always the second in command, so to speak. And whenever there was something wrong, I would feel very responsible for it. And I'm still like that. I have students who will come to me. They may have disappeared midway through the semester, and then they come to me a month later, the semester's over, and they want to me to help them magically pass the class. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:54:07]: And I get really invested. I try. I think the older I get, the more I'm like, it's not my job to fix the world. Maybe all women need to hear this advice. It's not our job to do that. It doesn't mean you can't be nice and you can't be helpful, but you should not take it on as your responsibility. So that would be my advice. Joanna Rakoff [00:54:24]: I think I'm torn here because there's so much I want to tell my daughters. But I think maybe the biggest thing that encompasses some of the others would be be don't let anyone's ideas about who you are or what you can do shape the choices you make with your life. I think I, as a kid, college student, a young person, really did. I think that I, in a sponge like way, absorbed what people were telling me about myself, like about the way that I looked, about who I was in the world, about what was possible for me. And I really did let those things affect me and affect, affect even some of my biggest choices in life. And in some ways they kind of contradicted the things that my father told me. But I let those outside voices affect me in such a deep and profound way. And it bothers me to this day. Joanna Rakoff [00:55:19]: And I really hope that I can free my daughters from that and free them from allowing those outside ideas and voices to have them take the safer route, especially professionally, rather than kind of going for what they want. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:55:37]: As you think about your own relationship with your own father and you think about other fathers that are out there trying to build those connections with their daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Michele Filgate [00:55:54]: I would say that I think it's easy for dads to get kind of embarrassed talking about quote unquote traditional girl things with girls. And I would encourage fathers to be more open minded about listening to their daughters and not just changing the subject or walking away or dismissing them. I would say I would love to see dads take their daughters seriously with, Whether they're talking about a crush they have or a movie star that they like or whatever, Even if it's something that they seem that they're not as interested in. Listen and take your daughter's interests seriously. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:56:35]: If I could piggyback on that, I would say, ask your daughters for advice yourself. Like, tell your daughters I had a bad day at work and this coworker said this thing to me. What do you think I should do? I think I should talk to him tomorrow. But what do you think? Ask her advice. Tell her about, don't make yourself the person who knows everything. Show her that you also have bad days and you would like to listen to her input. I remember my dad would talk to me all the time. I had a customer today who said this. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:57:02]: It really put me in a bad mood or I'm not sure what to do about your brother's. Wrestling schedule. He would talk to me and ask for my input. And I think it would make your daughter feel that her input matters. And she would never allow anyone in her future to dismiss her input or, or dismiss her opinion or point of view because she's used to having her voice be heard by the most important man in her life until that point. Joanna Rakoff [00:57:26]: And really similarly, I of course have two things that I'll say very quick, but similarly I would say let them in, which is kind of saying the same thing as both of you. Like I'm just thinking about last night. My husband, who is my two older kids stepfather but is very close with them, he has all sorts of quirky interests and loves and like finds tremendous, tremendous excitement and humor and like the Eurovision Song Awards and that kind of thing. And loves to laugh and have fun and enjoy whatever he enjoys. And last night he was watching the Scripps National Spelling Bee and I was putting my younger daughter to sleep and he grabbed my 16 year old who you would not think would necessarily, if you knew her, you wouldn't think it would be her interest. But he was like, you have to watch this, it's amazing. And I came out of my younger daughter's room and heard that hysterically laughing and cheering and I don't know if you guys watched it, but they were just going crazy. They were like sarp and, and it was the most fun and just I think bringing your daughter in rather than that kind of conventional thing of like, I'm interested in basketball and I'm going to this game with my friends and we will drink beer. Joanna Rakoff [00:58:33]: Realizing that your daughter can share your interests if you let her in and give her the chance and think about them in a kind of non conventional way and think about yourself in a non conventional way. But the other related thing I just would say is find every opportunity to laugh. You know, like listen to her stories from school when she comes home. Listen to all of her stories. You know, she might talk for two hours about things that happened at lunch that her friends did. And maybe you're kind of like zoning out and thinking about work, but don't really listen and find the moment when you can laugh about things and, and so she can laugh about them too. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:59:13]: And I just want to add one thing which is that these are all the things that we're mentioning are things that any father can do. Especially like fathers who are like working class fathers who don't like have a lot. Like fathers are always into this idea of being the provider and if they are not able to, like, financially or materially provide a lot for their children. And, you know, we live in this materialistic society. You can feel bad about yourself, I think, as a father, because you're not giving your kids the same things that other children are getting from their parents. And your kids will let you know that their friend has an apple watch, and they don't. But all the things that we're talking about are more lasting than those things. And they're things any father can do. Susan Muaddi Darraj [00:59:53]: You don't have to be. You don't have to be making a quarter million dollars a year to sit and talk to your child or watch the spelling bee with them or chat with them and build those. Build that sense of trust and love with your daughter. Joanna Rakoff [01:00:06]: And, Susan, just listening to you, I'm realizing that there's one thing that we're all saying which is just listen. Like, listen more than you talk. You know, if your daughter is talking to you about anything that's on her mind, like a problem with a grade, you know, not being the starter for the rugby team, like, whatever it is a dilemma that she has, you know, with, do I do this night or that night, or I didn't get this part in the school play. She doesn't need you to solve the problem for her. I think this is a thing that dads do. My own dad did not do this, but I see this in my life, this need to kind of solve a problem. Be like, why don't you just do this? Or, let's just do this, or, I'll just call the school. But that's not what they need. Joanna Rakoff [01:00:45]: They just need you to listen. That's all they want, is for you to listen, to really listen. Not while looking at your phone, not while doing paperwork, not while, like, raking leaves. Like, to really, really listen. Which is, I suppose, why driving can be such a wonderful time. Dads and daughters. Susan Muaddi Darraj [01:01:06]: And actually, if I can quote my mother here, one of my mother's favorite sayings is, God gave you two ears and one mouth because you're supposed to listen twice as much as you talk. She. She said that all the time. I don't know where she heard it, but she said it all the time. And I. She would say that to us when we were gabbing a lot, I think, but she said it in other, more appropriate moments. So listening. I think you're right, Joanna. Susan Muaddi Darraj [01:01:29]: This is about just building a relationship through listening. And when you listen, you're really hearing and seeing your child as the beautiful individual that they are. Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:01:40]: Well, I just want to say thank you to all three of you for being here today. Your words are so important and the relationship that you had with your own fathers and that you have with your own fathers is so powerful. I appreciate you sharing not only this journey with us today, but in the book. And Michelle, if people want to find out more about the authors in the book or the book itself, where should they go? Michele Filgate [01:02:04]: Yes, I encourage them to buy the book from their local independent bookstore, but they can also go to my website and I have information about the book on my website. Michellephilgate.com. Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:02:16]: Well, again, thank you so much for your time today for sharing your own journey with your fathers. And I wish you all the best. Michele Filgate [01:02:24]: Thank you. Susan Muaddi Darraj [01:02:25]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:02:25]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [01:02:26]: That's a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [01:02:57]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best that you can.

Fatherhood is a journey filled with highs, lows, and countless unexpected turns—something this week's episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection beautifully illustrates. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Steve Harris, author of Dads Like Us: A Survival Guide for Fathers Raising a Child with Disabilities, to share his personal story, hard-won wisdom, and practical advice for fathers facing one of life's greatest challenges: raising a child with special needs. From the very beginning, it's clear this conversation isn't just for dads of daughters or even just for dads of children with disabilities—it's for anyone committed to being present, adaptable, and truly connected as a parent. Steve's authenticity shines as he reflects on meaningful moments with his sons, the heartbreak and resilience of navigating medical crises, and the importance of simply "being there." One of the standout themes throughout the episode is the need for self-care as a caregiver. Steve reminds us that fathers, especially those facing long-term challenges, must take care of their own mental, emotional, and physical well-being. "The stronger we are as dads, the better dads we're going to be," he shares—a lesson learned through years spent in hospital rooms and therapy sessions. The episode also tackles often unspoken emotions: grief for the future you envisioned, anger at situations you can't fix, and loneliness when you feel pushed to the sidelines. Steve offers compassionate advice: acknowledge your feelings, reach out for help, and remember you are not alone. He encourages dads to stay involved, advocate for their children, and celebrate the unique gifts and victories—big or small—that each day brings. Perhaps most poignant is Steve's advice for those just starting this journey. In the first bewildering days after a diagnosis, he urges fathers to resist the urge to isolate, reach out to loved ones, and move through grief towards gratitude for the child in front of them. For anyone on the path of parenthood—especially those facing extra challenges—this episode is a supportive, practical, and inspiring listen. Don't miss it. Tune in to hear how showing up, adapting, and loving unconditionally shapes both father and child. Listen to the full episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection wherever you get your podcasts, and discover more stories and resources at dadanddaughterconnection.com.     TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, to be able to become those fathers that we want to become for our children. And every week, we do that with an opportunity to be able to meet other dads, dads with different experiences that can share some of the things that they have learned to help you in the journey that you're on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]: And it is a journey because every day is going to be a little bit different. Every day we have to work, work to build those relationships with our children. And it is important to be open to the idea and the thought that you have to put in the work. You've got to put in the work. You got to be willing to learn, to grow, to be able to be that dad that you want to be. And that's why every week I come back and I know that you come back to be able to learn from other fathers. And today we got another great guest. Steve Harris is with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:49]: And Steve is a father of two sons. And we're going to be talking about the journey that he went on and a book that he wrote called Dads Like Us, A Survival Guide for Fathers Raising a Child With Disabilities. And we're going to talk about his own journey. As I said, he had two sons. One of his sons has passed. And we're going to talk about that journey with his own sons, as well as the book and some things that you might want to think about, especially if you're raising a child with a disability. And I'm really looking forward to having him here today. Steve, thanks so much for being here. Steve Harris [00:02:23]: Well, thank you, Chris. It's honor to be talking with you today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]: Now, one of the things that I love doing at the very beginning is talking about you as a dad. And many times I talk to dads with daughters. You have sons. But many of the questions that I ask are very much related to just being a father. So I'm going to ask you some similar questions that I ask to dads with daughters, and we'll go down that pathway. So as you think back to the time that you had with both of your sons, what's one meaningful moment that you shared with them and what made it so special? Steve Harris [00:02:55]: Wow, there have been so many. I have two sons, Andrew, who's now 37, and Matthew, who passed away, almost made it to his 40th birthday. So we had a long journey. And I can think of a moment with Matthew especially, I mean, comes to mind. First, sixth grade graduation. He had been able to be in school with a lot of special help and support from the teachers and paras there. They had a graduation ceremony. For some reason, Matthew was kind of verbal, not hugely verbal, but he could say things in moments that had a lot of meaning. Steve Harris [00:03:24]: They invited him to come up to the podium and address his rather large crowd. I was kind of nervous watching that all taking place, but Matthew wheeled up to the microphone, had a big smile on his face, and just said thank you. And for me, that was an amazing moment. It was very simple. Maybe to others it would not seem like a big deal, but the fact that he had made it in his life through all kinds of physical challenges and that he would sit there in his wheelchair and say thank you and be grateful. Wonderful person. Meant a ton to me that he did that. Andrew played a lot of, we call them handicapped sports, but adapted sports in high school, became the co captain of his adaptive soccer team. Steve Harris [00:04:02]: He was able to show some leadership and be a leader in a situation that was difficult. And I'm hugely proud of my boys. I'll say that I've got a million moments like that, but those were two. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]: As your sons got older and you continued to help to guide them in the journey that they were on and becoming the adults that they became. How did you balance guiding your sons while also giving them the independence that they needed to be able to grow into their own person? Steve Harris [00:04:34]: Well, the situation that they faced, they both had inherited a pretty, very rare genetic condition called Polysius Mersbacher disease. We didn't know that right at first, but. And Matthew was also born with spina bifida. They had so many physical challenges and long hospital stays, and they've had a lifetime of tough stuff. I have tried to appreciate them as individual people, that they are unique persons, you know, made in the image of God, with a potential for their lives and trying to find out in lots of different ways what that potential could be, I guess. Chris, I've just tried to love them. I've tried to be there for them. I've tried to, through ups and downs, tried to show them that they are totally valuable, priceless people, as valuable as anybody else who walks the face of the earth. Steve Harris [00:05:22]: That they're very special. And I can't think of one exact strategy I had other than to hopefully be their loving dad. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:28]: What are some intentional ways that you worked with your sons to strengthen that bond with them, especially during challenging times? Steve Harris [00:05:35]: Well, I guess number one would be being there. That sounds kind of simple, but the sad truth is that I talk about it in the book and stuff and other places that dads of kids who are disabled, they have a unique journey. It's a tough journey. It means that we are. I don't know if you agree with this, Chris, but I think dads are kind of wired to be the fixers and the protectors of our kids, definitely. So when we get into the life that we live as the dads of children with disabilities, most of the time we can't be that. We can't be the fixer, we can't be the protector. And that can be frustrating. Steve Harris [00:06:07]: It creates all kind of different conflicts and emotions for us. But I've tried to be there for them. Again. A sad statistic is that many dads don't stay involved in the lives of their kids when they are disabled, thankfully, as a small percentage. But just trying to hang in there. I think, number one, just being there has been a huge challenge and very important challenge for me in my life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:29]: What would you say is a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive connections? Steve Harris [00:06:37]: Dads of kids who are disabled are caregivers. All dads are caregivers. But I think we're given a challenge to be a caregiver over a long stretch of time. It takes a lot. And I think a mistake I made early is maybe not taking care of myself, not realizing that if I was going to be the best dad I could be. I'm talking about a situation where Matthew was in. Lived in an intensive care ward of a hospital for the first year of his life. It was a very stressful and demanding experience. Steve Harris [00:07:06]: It made it hard to live a really good, balanced life. And I think looking back, I should have taken better care of myself mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, right away. I. I think that sometimes in our quest to be great dads we may forget that we also have our own personal needs. And at times that sounds and feels selfish, and it sounds selfish to say that, but the stronger we are as dads, the better dads we're going to be. That needs attention. It needs taking care of ourselves, making good choices. Sometimes in the crisis moments, that is very difficult to do, but I guess that's one I would say. Steve Harris [00:07:40]: I'm sure there are others. I'm sure there are many, but I'll mention that one right now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:44]: Now, I know you mentioned the book, and as I said at the beginning, you wrote a book called Dads Like Us, A Survival Guide for Fathers Raising a Child With Disabilities. And I guess first and foremost, before I delve too deep into the book itself, give me the origin story of this, because I've written a book myself. I know how much time, effort, passion goes into these passion projects. But tell me about the. The journey and what made you decide that you needed to tell this story and that you needed to get it out into the world. Steve Harris [00:08:19]: That's a great question. It's one that I have a Won't say. It's an easy answer, but I have an answer. My son Matthew, my first son, was born on October 13, 1980. It was a very exciting day in our lives. Our first child. Things in the hospital early on were just going beautifully, just perfect. When they discovered that Matthew had spina bifida, which is right away, things kind of came crashing down all of a sudden. Steve Harris [00:08:43]: Was in a very precarious situation. They didn't know if he was going to make it out of the delivery room. Anyway. In that room was a number of nurses, but one of them, I noticed, was actually feeling quite excited and happy about the whole situation. And it struck me that she had that big smile on her face and she said, you know what? This is quite a coincidence. I'm taking a class on spina Bifida. Within about 20 minutes after they had rushed Matthew out of the room to take him by ambulance to another hospital for surgery, she came back to me and she said, do you remember I told you I'm taking that class on spina bifida? This is the textbook we have for that class. And she wanted to hand me this big, thick book and said, you might want to read this. Steve Harris [00:09:22]: My first reaction was a textbook on spina bifida. I don't think I want to read it. I think I want to throw it at you right now, really, to be honest. But that moment, which was one moment of even a thousand of that day that I remember that moment planted a seed in me that what did I need at that moment as a dad, as a parent, to deal with the crisis that was unfolding for my son? It wasn't a textbook. I am a writer. I have been writing stuff my whole life. But anyway, even in the first couple of months after that, I thought, there should be something for dads in those moments. And I started thinking about the need for. Steve Harris [00:09:56]: To write a book or a desire or whatever to write it. Now, it took me 40 years to pull it off because I kept trying and starting and stopping. And then I realized, you know what? Maybe I have to live this before I can write it. And that's exactly what happened over the years. Just learned a lot, experienced a lot, met tons of people, had experiences with my sons, like we all do as dads. But these were all in kind of challenging settings. I thought, I am going to write that book someday. Because I read a statistic recently that said that dads who had spent a significant time with their kids in an intensive care unit, 50% of them said that they did not feel like they were getting the information or support that they needed. Steve Harris [00:10:34]: And I thought, I can relate to that because you're in a brand new world right away. So what is it those dads, dads like me, could need? And so I said, I'm going to write a book. I want it to be brief. I want it to be practical. I want it to be like a positive conversation between me and another dad saying, these are the. Some of the things you're going to face. Here are some of the ways that that will help. Here's my story. Steve Harris [00:10:57]: It's not a memoir, but it's a lot of stories about my experience in those places. But basically to say, dad, you're facing a unique challenge. Is it going to be tough? You're going to make it. But here's some practical advice as you head into that world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:10]: And you said, it is a brief, practical book. It is. It is a brief and practical book. As I was in reading through the book, I know your book really does talk about grief. Not for the child that we have, but for the expectations that we lose. How can fathers process that sadness without feeling guilt or weakness? Steve Harris [00:11:29]: First thing I would say is, you are going to feel sad, you are going to feel grief. There's no shame in that. There should not be an embarrassment for that. We love our kids. They mean the world to us. So to see your child going through surgeries and physical disabilities, mental disabilities, there's just a ton of stuff to feel sad about. So I do feel sad. I will always have a sense of grief about it, but kind of move. Steve Harris [00:11:51]: Grief doesn't go away. It evolves and changes. There's a writer, James Autrey, in his book about gratitude, says there comes a point in time when you have to stop grieving the child who is not there and celebrating the child who is there. That was a powerful statement for me. It's. It's not a one time thing, but it's letting go, realizing there's going to be sadness. But you move on and love the child that you have. You're sad because of some things that did not work out, sad for some dreams that never did come true. Steve Harris [00:12:21]: But you have a wonderful, precious child in your life as your child and you're the dad who can love him for who he is. So I accept the sadness, deal with it and move ahead, I guess now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:33]: Also in the book you write about the fact that many dads feel invisible in the care process. What advice do you have for dads who want to be more than just helpers, but who want to lead? Steve Harris [00:12:47]: Right. We need to be there. We need to be good advocates for our kids. I talk in the book about the fact that dads of kids with disabilities will watch a parade of people march through their life right from day one. Doctors, nurses, therapists, social workers, counselors, teachers, paraprofessionals. There's just a parade. A lot, a lot of people come in. It is easy and I think there are some complicated reasons for this, but I think it's easy for dads to kind of be pushed off to the side. Steve Harris [00:13:13]: There are times in the hospitals, for example, when, and I think there's some natural stuff going on here that moms are seen as the basic primary caregiving, nurturer person. Dads don't quite know where they fit in there. Sometimes the people are working with, the dads don't know quite where they fit. My advice or encouragement that I wrote about in the book was to dads that say, don't let that happen. Make sure you get at the front of that parade. Make sure you stay there. Make sure that you initiate communication with doctors and nurses that is needed. Make sure that people see you as active, involved and key caregiver in the situation. Steve Harris [00:13:46]: So yeah, my encouragement to all of us dads is to hang in, in there and, and stay involved at the front of all that's happening with your child's care. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:55]: What were some of the most unexpected or we'll say joyful lessons that you learned from your sons. Maybe things that reshaped how you thought about parenting. Steve Harris [00:14:07]: Both of my boys have faced immense physical and mental challenges. The disease that they have is progressive. It's incurable. It's been a journey of learning to take one day at a time and enjoy each day and to be thankful and grateful for each day. Sometimes we want our kids to succeed. We want them to be, you know, the star athletes and the best students and getting the big scholarships. And we have dreams for our kids. My boys have taught me that more about what's really important in life, what the priorities are in life, what's. Steve Harris [00:14:41]: What are the most valuable things in life. I wrote a chapter in there about pride. You know, it's. It's different for dads like us. We find different things to be proud about, and yet we come away with a greater appreciation and love for our kids than we maybe we ever would have had before. One doctor told me that he said, you, son Matthew can't do many things. He can't walk, he can't talk, he can't eat normally. He can't really. Steve Harris [00:15:03]: He can't do many things, but one thing he can do is stay alive. And Matthew had a determined spirit, a courageous spirit through all those things and even, even above that, it was a spirit filled with smiles. He had a smile that melted the heart, heart of every nurse he ever met. I never once heard Matthew in nearly 40 years express any kind of bitterness or anger or early on when he had more mental capabilities. There was nothing negative coming from him. He was in many ways the most content person I ever met. And yet he was living in a situation that was incredibly difficult for him, with scores of operations and what we would call limitations. But he had a spirit in him that was incredible and it was amazing to watch. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:45]: Now, the book also walks through some common emotions like anger, loneliness and fear. How can dads navigate those strong emotions without getting stuck or isolated? Steve Harris [00:15:56]: I would say again, number one would be just to acknowledge that they're going to be there and you're going to go through these different emotions. Don't feel bad about that. Be aware of it. Don't let them become destructive in your life. I think it means having a sense of. We'll take anger, for example. I talk about sometimes get really quiet. They say that anger turned inward becomes depression, and that can happen. Steve Harris [00:16:17]: But there's also dads who get angry and they have eruptions. They have. They have times when they just explode. And I compare it to volcanoes. They Say that the worst volcanoes are the ones that build up and build up and build up and then they finally blast. Whereas if there are volcanoes that kind of let off a little steam here and there, it's actually better because it doesn't build to a point that's so destructive. I think with anger, that can be true if you keep squashing it down, squashing it down. And all of us get angry about different things. Steve Harris [00:16:45]: I think dads like us, we have situations in hospitals or with doctors and care decisions and things that kind of build up. But if we can learn to express some of the anger in really small doses, it's better than waiting for some kind of a bigger explosion. That's one example of one emotion. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:00]: Now, you talked at the beginning of this about your reaction to your first son being born in the feelings that you were feeling. What's your advice to dads who are listening, who just got the news that their child has a disability? What should they do in the first 24 to 48 hours? Steve Harris [00:17:20]: That's such a great question. And that's exactly why I'm thankful that it worked out that this book got written, because those first 24 hours, that first week is really crucial. So thank you for asking that question. What I would do if I was back there today, if today was day one, I would fight through the temptation that comes to isolate, to pull back. Sometimes there's such a swirl of emotions that you really can't function. You're kind of in a mental. Mental fog. Take a breath, make sure that you're, you're. Steve Harris [00:17:48]: You fight through the. Any temptation you have to isolate, talk to your wife, talk to people that you have that you're close to. Make sure that you make some connection with them. You're going to need people, and yet it comes at a point when you start to push them away. And that's a dangerous point. So I would say, number one, pray. Number two, connect with the people that you love who will be there to support you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:11]: Now you close your book with gratitude and pride. What would you say now to your younger self sitting alone in that hospital waiting room? Steve Harris [00:18:20]: I'd say you are walking into a world that you do not, did not expect. You had hopes and dreams of having the normal kids that everybody else seems to have. That's not going to be true for you. For whatever reasons and however life works, that's just the reality of it. So face that reality and it will be difficult. And it's not a one day, one week, one month process. It will be kind of a lifetime of adjustments. But face the reality, but also be aware that you are being in invited into a parenting experience that will change you in wonderful ways, that will open doors to wonderful relationships. Steve Harris [00:18:57]: It is not. Well, I'll quote, I'm sure that others who know about this stuff know this, but Emily Kingsley Pearl, welcome to Holland. Are you aware of welcome to Holland, Chris? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:08]: I'm not. Tell me more about that. Steve Harris [00:19:09]: Okay. She was one of the original writers in Of Sesame Street. She wrote an analogy, apologies, probably 30, 40 years ago now, called welcome to Holland. And the idea is that parents who are having a child, it's kind of like they're getting a dream vacation to Italy. And so they get on the plane, they're all excited, you know, prepared to enjoy Italy. The plane lands, the announcement comes over the loudspeaker, and they say, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to Holland. And the parent sitting there says, well, wait a minute, I didn't expect to be in Holland. Steve Harris [00:19:39]: I'm going to Italy. And also, you find out you're in Holland, you are in a place that you did not expect. You're not prepared for it. And she said, okay, be disorienting. You can be angry about it, you can be frustrated. But she said, as you are in Holland, all of a sudden, there are challenges to it. It's got new languages and new experiences you didn't expect. But as you are there, you're also finding out that Holland has Rembrandt and Holland has tulips and Holland has all kinds of joys and things that you did not expect and you did not prepare for, even think about. Steve Harris [00:20:08]: But there you are in this new place and you can enjoy Holland. That analogy has helped many people. It helped me early on to realize that, no, I wasn't in the place expected to be as a dad. I was in a world that presented all kinds of challenges. But over time, given time, and there are good days and bad days, but you realize that the life I'm living as a dad right now with my kids, with my two sons who are disabled, it's an amazing, wonderful, rich, rich life. It takes you to places you didn't want to go, maybe, but you're very grateful that you went there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:41]: Now, if people want to find out more about the book, where should they go? Steve Harris [00:20:43]: Well, I have a website, www.steve harris author. They can look me up there. It's also on Amazon and other places. If they want to contact me directly, I'll send them a book. You know my dream about this book. Early on, this is probably naive. This was not about book writing thing. I wanted to just be handing these books out. Steve Harris [00:21:02]: And my dream still is to have this book in every hospital in America because I think it's a book for dads to read and for moms and family members. But I really hope that doctors and nurses, social workers and teachers and chaplains and counselors will read this book because they're working with these men, they're working with these families and these kids. I would love to see the sensitivity heightened about what these families are going through so that they'll be supported because ultimately it supports the kid. A strong dad is going to be a better dad. And our kids are going to need all kinds of support to reach the potential that they have for their lives. A dad as important as any of them in that group of people who are helping. But I hope that the book gets read by all kinds of people out there, but especially by dads, of course. And I do hope that they'll be passing them out in hospital rooms across America. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:53]: Now. We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad Connection six, which is an opportunity to get to know you a little bit more as a dad. Are you ready? Steve Harris [00:22:01]: Sure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:01]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your sons? Steve Harris [00:22:05]: Playful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:06]: What's the best piece of dad advice you ever received? Steve Harris [00:22:10]: Be there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:11]: What's one activity that you and your sons love or love doing together? Steve Harris [00:22:18]: Wrestling on the living room floor. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:19]: If you could give your son one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Steve Harris [00:22:24]: Be grateful and have faith in better things to come. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Steve Harris [00:22:31]: I would say I have learned and am learning that I need not a great dad. I need help. And I guess learning to reach out for that help, that's a longer answer. But learn to reach out for the help that you need for the challenges in front of you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:44]: What advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful, meaningful relationship with their kids? Steve Harris [00:22:51]: Appreciate them for the unique individual that they are, that every day is new. You kind of said that in your opening introduction there. That every day is new. We grow, we change, they grow, they change. And be aware of that and connect with that each day. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:05]: Well, Steve, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story, for letting us get to know your sons in a little bit different ways, and also for the book that you've created to help help other fathers that are raising children with disabilities to be able to help them to know that they're not alone, but also to help them to negap to navigate the journey that they're going to be on in a very practical way. We'll make sure to put a link in the notes today to make sure that people know how to get access to that, but I truly want to say thank you and I wish you all the best. Steve Harris [00:23:41]: Well, thank you very much, Chris. It's a pleasure to meet you today and thank you for letting me share my story. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:45]: That's a wrap for this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:24:16]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

If you're a dad who wants to create a lasting, meaningful bond with your daughter, you won't want to miss this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rob Finlay—bestselling author, accomplished entrepreneur, and dad of four (including three daughters)—for an honest, heartwarming discussion about the joys and challenges of fatherhood. From the start, Dr. Lewis emphasizes that being a great dad is less about perfection and more about presence and intentional connection. There's no universal playbook for fatherhood, especially when it comes to raising girls who are confident and independent. That's why he brings in guests like Rob, who candidly shares both his successes and the lessons learned through mistakes. One standout theme is the importance of vulnerability and authenticity. Rob talks about never hiding his emotions from his daughters, showing them by example that strength and sensitivity aren't mutually exclusive. He wanted his girls to see a father who could be both a gentleman and deeply caring—teaching by doing rather than merely telling. Throughout the conversation, both Dr. Lewis and Rob stress the value of teaching resilience and self-reliance. Rob encouraged his daughters to try new things, pushed them to stick with commitments, and allowed them to experience failure—knowing these moments are key to personal growth. He highlights the importance of letting daughters step into adulthood on their terms, supporting them with guidance rather than control. Another powerful insight is Rob's approach to life skills. Prompted by a late-night call from his daughter ("Can I put the green gas in my Jeep?"), Rob realized the value of giving kids the foundational tools they need to navigate adulthood—from financial conversations to problem-solving. His new book, Hey Dad, Everything You Should Have Learned About Life But Didn't, is packed with practical, real-world advice and a healthy dose of humor to make learning approachable. Fatherhood isn't static, and the parent-child relationship evolves—what matters is open, honest communication and the willingness to keep learning together. Whether you're helping your daughter make big life decisions or just sharing a favorite meal, every interaction counts. Ready to be inspired? Listen to this heartfelt episode and take away actionable tips to deepen your connection with your daughter. Tune in at Dad and Daughter Connection—and start building those strong, confident relationships, one day at a time. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there, it's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together on this journey that we're on. Learning more, doing more, and trying to be the dads that we want to be, to be able to build those connections that we want with our daughters one day at a time. And I first and foremost want to say thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:13]: Thank you for always coming back every week and putting yourself out there to learn more. Because all of us are a work in progress and to be honest, none of us know everything that we need to know to be able to be the dads that we want to be. Becoming a dad does not have a playbook. It does. There's no right way to father. But there's a lot of things that you can learn along the way to help you to be that engaged, more present dad that you want to become. And especially in raising daughters, there are so many things that we can do to be able to build those positive relationships through positive communication. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different people, different people with different experiences that can help you to be able to add some tools to your own toolbox that you can then take into the day to day experiences that you're having with your daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]: Today we got another great guest. Rob Findlay is with us today. And Rob's not only a best selling author and accomplished entrepreneur, but also a dad of four. And as a part of those four, he has three daughters. His personal stories of late night calls for help paired with his professional expertise make him unique, uniquely qualified to speak to parents about raising capable, confident young adults. Plus, his engaging, no nonsense delivery resonates with anyone who ever who has ever googled how to reset a circuit breaker at 2:00am I love that. And we're going to be talking about a brand new book that he has called hey, dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn't. And it is definitely a humorous and practical guide to the real world lessons that every young adult needs to know, but that are not always taught. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]: So we're going to be talking about his book as well as, first and foremost, learning more about him as a dad. But, Rob, thank you so much for being here today. Rob Finlay [00:03:04]: Oh, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'll tell you, I Wish you existed 20 plus years ago when I had daughters, because I'll tell you, I grew up in a family with a brother, dad and mom, but. But maybe a little bit more traditional where it was very much a man's household. And in fact, I go so far as my mom wouldn't even put pantyhose that she would buy from the grocery store in the same bag. My brother and I could see it. So I grew up without any real understanding of what it was like to have a sister or anything until Lord blessed me one day with three beautiful daughters and I had no idea what I was doing. So I wish you were there years ago for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]: Well, you can still learn and you never stop being a father to a daughter. So there's always going to be more things to learn along the way. So that being said, I want to learn a little bit more about you as a dad, seeing that you come from that background. I guess as you think back to your daughters and raising your daughters, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughters and what made it so special? Rob Finlay [00:04:07]: I think one of the things is I was never afraid to show emotions in front of my daughters. I think that was a very different departure from maybe where I was, but they would know. And now it's almost the joke of they see a movie with a dog dying or something sad in the movie that dad will cry. And I think it was important for them to see that emotion. At the same point, I also wanted them to see what I wanted to portray as a male to them, which is I'm polite, I'm respectful, I have manners, I have etiquette. Right? These are the things that were important. So I wanted to be a gentleman and maybe a little bit on the macho side, but also showing that I had enough sensitivity and tenderness that I could support them at either direction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:49]: As you just said that. I mean, you said you weren't afraid to show that vulnerability, but at the same time, you also had that macho side as well. And so there's A balance between both sides of that personality. And as you're raising daughters, you're trying to balance, also guiding them to give them the independence to grow into their own person. And so how did you do that? Rob Finlay [00:05:15]: I think it was about pushing them. I actually believe that I wanted to see them fail. I wanted to see. And I know that's very hard. I mean, parents can't. And probably back at the time, I probably didn't. But in hindsight, I was much more open to them exploring their own paths and pushing them, but not being overbearing. I wanted them to have interest and do things on their own, keep them focused. Rob Finlay [00:05:37]: If they made a commitment to do cello, well, you're going to take Chiello. You're not going to try it for two days and then quit. You're going to do it and you're going to try it. But if you don't like it after that, or if you. If you're really horrible at it, doesn't really matter, but at least you've tried it. And so those were some of the things that I did. One of the important things that I feel that for young adults and for young kids is to have a broader experience with other adults and other people outside their friend groups. And this was critical for me, that I wanted to make sure that my girls and my son, too, were comfortable networking, having adult conversations, and being exposed to things other than just mom and dad in their friend group. Rob Finlay [00:06:19]: And so since they were young, you had them in farming groups. I would have them come to business meals with me just so they could see what it was like to be exposed to something other than just the sort of the family unit. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]: As I said at the very beginning, going through this process of raising daughters is a learning process for all of us as fathers. And there are specific things that we all can do to be able to strengthen that bond with our daughters. For you, with three daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have done, have worked in the past or are currently working to strengthen your bonds with your daughters, and especially during challenging times? Rob Finlay [00:07:00]: I think, first of all, the young women that I see today, the young women that are my. My daughters, those are my daughters, we said, like, when they're in their 20s, are very different than the young women that I knew 25 years ago when I was a young man. And the young ladies today that I've created and I've seen are much more independent. And therefore, the needs that they have tend to be more of financial understanding and business understanding and things like that. And my Daughters typically will come to me with questions that are much more about their financial independence than it is about navigating their own personal life or personal relationships. There I think there was a stage not, you know, all fathers, I think, go through this where your daughter is the apple in your eye and she's there and she's with you all the time and she'll tell you everything. Then she goes to this different stage where maybe she's not as comfortable talking to you about boyfriends and things that they're doing. But then it comes back around where now these boyfriends are becoming, okay, this is not just a boyfriend, this is actually a serious relationship and we want to move in together. Rob Finlay [00:08:06]: So we start having those dialogues of that where it's a very different situation. It's not dad being emotional saying, okay, I'm bringing a boy to the house for the first time, it's dad, this could be my life partner for life. And what are the things that I have to think about from a practical or even a, I don't want to say business, but a financial standpoint. And that's where these conversations have started. And these are very difficult conversations because at 20 some odd years old, these are adult conversations. When you're talking about, one of my daughters has a very good job, her boyfriend does not, they're sharing expenses, they're living together. So now it becomes a different thing of, okay, well how do you protect these things that are yours and yet still have these relationships? And it's almost equivalent to what a prenup agreement is to an adult. You're now having these conversations with people who are in their early stage of adulting, just launching. Rob Finlay [00:08:56]: And they have so much to do anyways with just launching. They're on this what I call magic carpet ride of life where from the day they're born, basically until they have this big life moment which is graduation, and get thrown into the real world, everything is coming at them all at once. And now you have to compound it with some pretty difficult grown up conversations. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]: So talk to me about that because you are having those conversations. And as I'm listening to that, I know I have a daughter in college right now, she's not at that point yet. How do you approach that without stepping over the line and stepping into a lane that, that they don't want you in? In that regard, I think at this. Rob Finlay [00:09:36]: Point is this is where you let your child fail to a level where it's acceptable. But there are times where father knows best, even though they don't like it and sometimes. But I've been around the block. I've experienced this myself. And so coming to them with this conversation, I think it's more of the approach where I want them to come to their own conclusions, but the questions that I lead will prompt them. It's not that I'm trying to show influence over my daughter, but rather use my influence to let them come and make the right decisions themselves. And they are hard. The first move in boyfriend is. Rob Finlay [00:10:12]: Is the big one, and we live together, and it's gonna be wonderful. Oh, okay. But let me ask you, what would happen if, first things first, you get a pet together? Who gets the pet if something happens? Just think about. You make your own decisions. I think I'm very quick to do that with my girls. I want them to make the decisions, but let them know the consequences, the things that they don't think about. Because you're like, you're at a. At an all you can eat buffet. Rob Finlay [00:10:35]: You want to eat as much as you possib you can without the consequences of, oh, geez, I just ate way too much later that night. And so it is about having the mind. And I think the important part of all of this is the demeanor that I have to provide to my daughters is one of very calm. And my wife is usually very good to maybe give me a little pinch. Right. If we're on the call and I might get a little excited, they can hear it in my voice. I have to detune it a little bit because I think. And at least with my own experience, and it's also a little skewed for me, because my day job is my business, just like yours. Rob Finlay [00:11:08]: You're at the university. My day job is at a business, and I hire a lot of young analysts right out of college. And predominantly, they are young men. And so my management style with them is different. And just like with my son, my conversation, my tone with my son is very different. With my daughters, including each individual daughter, there's a different approach to talk to each one. And so it just comes back to the demeanor has to be set, and the conversation, the tone has to be set commensurate with the child. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]: You know, I know that there have been plenty of times that I've made mistakes, and none of us are infallible. What's a mistake that you've made as a father, and what did you learn about it in regards to fostering a positive connection with your daughters? Rob Finlay [00:11:50]: Well, I'll tell you, there's a lot of things. I mean, the whole Purpose of the book that I wrote was because of a late night phone call just on a certain instance. And I realized, have I taught my kids everything that they should know to go be an adult? And not that you have to know everything because you learn as an adult, you learn every day. But, but have I given them the foundation? Go out, get out on their own, get a job, get an apartment, make friends, become a good healthy adult. All of these things have I built them the foundation? And then it starts to do the. Where it spirals as a father, like, well, geez, you know what? I spent all my younger years when they were around trying to build a business thinking that it was important for me to provide for them. And maybe the providing that I should have given was maybe more emotional and less financial. So it starts to come around as what did I do wrong as a father? Now, fortunately I have a good relationship with all of my kids and but this book has really sort of opened up my eyes where I look back at all these things that I don't know that I taught them. Rob Finlay [00:12:49]: Was it because I wasn't there? Was I an absent father? Or was it maybe in many cases I told them and they didn't listen, or was it because I wanted to take care of them? And I'm very guilty of that with my girls. My girls, if they know if there was a light that went on in their car, all they had to do is go up and say, hey dad, Daddy, there's a light on in my car. And I would go run fix it it, I wouldn't make them do it. Now in hindsight would have been better for me to push them back to solve their own problems. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]: So let's talk about your book. And as I mentioned, you do have this brand new book called hey dad, everything you should have learned about life but didn't. And one of the things that I noticed when looking at the book, you talk about that green handle moment in your book and it's a powerful moment. So it was that call that you got. And so tell me more about that call. But what did that call from your daughter teach you about the importance of dad and daughter communications in the transition to adulthood? Rob Finlay [00:13:46]: So the call to put give your listeners sort of the perspective, it's the middle of the night, probably one or two o'clock in the morning, which for me that's, that's bedtime. I'm already asleep for hours here. And every parent fears this call in the middle of the night. And I got it and I look over and it's one of my daughters calling. And I knew she was on a road trip. She was traveling from Wisconsin to go down to Austin, Texas. They were looking for a job. She was a college senior at the time. Rob Finlay [00:14:12]: And I'm panicked because my kids know that a call this late doesn't. That has to be an emergency. She picked up, and I was like, what's wrong? Because that's my first instinct. What is wrong? Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? Nope. Hey, dad. Sorry to bother you. No, nothing. It's just a very quick. Rob Finlay [00:14:27]: Can I put the green gas in my Jeep? And my heart rate has to come down, comes down. I'm starting to pain. I'm like, starting to think, okay, I'm woken up. Like, I finally realized, are you talking about diesel? Are you thinking about putting diesel in your Jeep? And she was almost hostile with me. Like, how dare I even. Yes, can I do it? Like, she was frustrated with me asking questions. And at that point I realized, like, you know, obviously, maybe I didn't teach her this. This is shame on me. Rob Finlay [00:14:52]: But also at the same point, I felt like, was it because it was easier to call me than to go and look at it on her own? Right. Could she have done research? Could she have gone on Google? Right. I mean, we're in the Internet society. There's. There's ways to get answers. And so I think it was more about that she wanted to reach out to me, to look for advice, to maybe in a reassuring moment, because there were some factors there that were going on, such as there was not to spoil this section of the book. It was. We had a fuel crisis on the east coast at that time, and none of the gas stations had gas. Rob Finlay [00:15:25]: And, you know, even while dad said, it's probably not a great time to do a trip, how can I stop her from going? But it was more of like, is she just trying to get some reassurance? And I think that comes down to one of the things that I feel, and this is that moment, is I think my kids and my girls in particular know what to do. But sometimes it's nice to have a little bit of reassurance. It's reassurance from dad that, yeah, I am doing the right thing. Yes, I'm going to be okay, or maybe I'm not doing the right thing and maybe I should do this or think differently about it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]: So that kind of leads into another part in your book where you talk about letting your kids call you or as a father, into the playing field. Only when they're ready. So how has that approach shaped your relationship with your daughters over time? Rob Finlay [00:16:10]: Look, I'm a businessman. I have no medical credentials, no nothing. It's me as a dad trying to do the best I can. I think I probably pushed my kids out into situations probably faster than I should have. Now, it's also siblings, right? So, I mean, the easiest way to go get a sibling to swim is to watch their other siblings swim. Of course, they want to do that naturally. And so while it's probably more sheltering and sheltered with my son and then my next daughter, and then by the time the fourth one comes around, you're a little bit more like, go ahead, go do these things. Go take responsibilities, having jobs, having chores, the girls grew up on a farm, about opening up and seeing things that are really, you're not going to see on TV and you're not going to see on social media. Rob Finlay [00:16:54]: And I think that was a big thing. And I think when I was writing this book, one of the things that I really wanted to do was go out and seek experts in the field of everything from finding an apartment to maintaining a car to what to do in emergencies, banking, insurance, taxes, all the things that I think are of core foundational purpose for young adults to become adults. And I think what I really did with this was I tried to mirror it, it to what my girls were learning and what I want them to learn going forward. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:26]: Is there a story that you can share where that strategy for you either built more trust or even backfired? Rob Finlay [00:17:33]: The first thing I've learned, and I'm sure a lot of fathers know this, especially if their daughters are in. In dating age, if you say you don't like the boy, he's staying. I've learned very quickly that there are things that I do now that have backfired. When I try to say, you know what? A young man who's coming to date, you should have a firm handshake. He should look at me in the eye. He should be polite. He should be polite to you. He should give attention to you, right? He should. Rob Finlay [00:17:55]: And when I realized that there's a different way, once again, it comes back to the conversation. Letting them know, if I don't like this guy, he doesn't shake my hand, right? All that's going to do is say, oh, that's going to be my new boyfriend. But if I talk about how I've noticed these young men at my office, how great they are by being polite, or how important it is, and even this comes down to how I am as a father in particular. This is just a purely on relationship side, but my wife requires us to do once a week, date night, to spend time together. Not on our phone, not with everything. And I think the kids and, and my girls see that. It's like it's important that somebody give you attention, focus on you and make you feel special, because that is what you are to me. But dad's blue in the face until I tell you how special you are. Rob Finlay [00:18:41]: I hear you, dad. I hear you. I hear you. But somebody else has to do that. And making them expect that is part of that learning of being an adult is getting the respect of yourself first. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:52]: A lot of times in my experience as a father, I have noticed that a lot of the life lessons that you see out in memes, in writing, a lot of that is focused on sons. Especially when you look at things like self reliance or money management or dealing with failure, There's a lot of that out in the world. How did writing this book change or reinforce the kind of life lessons you think daughters specifically need from their dads today? Rob Finlay [00:19:22]: Personally, I don't differentiate the two. I think there's a couple things. One is I think the skills that I'm trying to talk about, the foundational skills that I talk about in my book are truly just what every adult. It doesn't matter what you are, every adult needs to know how to do these basic things. This isn't like one plus one. This is actually just more foundational. Right? It's not about. About how to tie a tie, but rather when you should wear a tie or obviously daughter something different. Rob Finlay [00:19:47]: But to me, when I wrote the book, I wanted everybody to have these foundations because I think no matter what it is, if even it's about life, it's all the same. I can tell you though, what I have learned in all of this is that doing the research and talking to other parents, and talking to other parents in particular, it seems like the young ladies are actually more confident and are doing better and are at a very, very different path than young men. And I know that it's not as popular of a conversation because I personally think everybody should be lifted. You should never have one group of people below the other. Everybody should be lifted. Everybody should. Being successful and having a good life. So after I wrote this book and talked to my girls and my son about it, it really became more of I think I've done okay, but not by me. Rob Finlay [00:20:31]: It's probably because they're smart, they're independent, and they Take it upon themselves. And yes, they'll ask crazy questions, questions, but it's also a matter of time. Young adults today have not just their parents talking to them or their relationship with their dad, but they also have their relationship with social media. And so the influence that social media has, especially on some of these life lessons, is huge. A lot bigger than when I was growing up. As what mom and dad said, that was pretty much it. And yeah, my buddies, they'd be influences, but I don't have a screen showing me what I should be making for a job. I don't have a screen showing me how, at any moment, being compared to something. Rob Finlay [00:21:05]: And so I really do believe that it comes down to as parents. And the best thing that we can do with our sons and daughters is to encourage them to have confidence in themselves, give them the tools to be confident adults, because it comes quick and it comes pretty fast. And I know our first instinct is to protect them from it and keep them all. Let them save more money, let them stay at home, let them stay under the nest. I don't know if that's necessarily the best thing for young adults to get out into this world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:31]: Your book has a lot of humor in it. And what role do you think humor plays in building deeper connections between fathers and daughters, especially when navigating those adulting fails? Rob Finlay [00:21:43]: Look, life is too stressful as it is. We have to, at some point, lighten up and make sure that we focus on what is really important. I look back in the fall we have when. When college acceptance come around, and the stress of these young adults and their parents is criminal. It's absolutely criminal. The pressure that we put on for something. And this goes back to when I noticed the same thing. My first chapter on the book is probably one of the most profound and probably one of the hardest ones for me to. Rob Finlay [00:22:10]: To write because it was about emotion. It was like all of a sudden you're on this, what I call that magic carpet ride, and it stops. And you as a young adult, are now faced with where to live, what to do for a job, all these other factors, and it might be too much for you, and it becomes overwhelming. And one of my daughters just recently went through this where she didn't know where she was going to live. She didn't know what she was going to do for a job. Her career path through college had changed because the market had changed. And this poor thing, the stress consumed her. And at some point I just had to laugh and just say, listen, this just life, it's Important, but relax. Rob Finlay [00:22:44]: And so one of the first things I do when I talk to young adults, just take a deep breath. The decision you make today on your first job or where you're going to live is not going to be your last decision. You are going to make these decisions. So having humor and putting that in sort of lightens the load a little bit. It's also sort of my style, too. I don't want to stress them out even more. Oh, my gosh, yes, you need to have the right job. Because if you don't have the right job first, well, you'll never get your second job. Rob Finlay [00:23:08]: The second job won't be great. I don't think that is beneficial. Letting him relax, going into a situation. It was actually probably the Navy SEAL who I interviewed in the book was probably on emergencies, probably tied it all back to me, which was he's like, look, when people get anxious, they make mistakes. And so relax. Understand the situation. If you can relax, then you can find your way out of it. So in that same tune. Rob Finlay [00:23:31]: So it's sort of fitting that that last part of the book is what to do in Emergencies, written by a Navy SEAL and an emergency parameter medic. What ties back into the first part, which is my people that I interviewed were clinical psychologists and psychiatrists and how to tie it back, which is just relax. You can make good decisions if you relax and think clearly. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]: Now, your book also emphasizes getting a plan and visualizing a life. How can dads help daughters develop a life direction without overwhelming them with their own expectations? Rob Finlay [00:24:02]: For me, one of the stories I put in there is actually one of my daughters loves hiking. Hiking loves being in the outdoors. And we sort of talk about that hiking path, right? And so I asked her, I'm like, well, what do you like in hiking? Like, how do you pick what you want to go? And she would say, well, if I want to hike on the beach, I go pick a hike towards the beach. If I want to hike in the mountains, I want to go pick a hike in the mountains. And we use that as an analogy to sort of talk about life. Well, where do you want to go? Do you want to be in science or what? So trying to take their interests and tie it back into a story, more of a narrative, into helping them. Them pick what they want. And if you can equate it back to things that are simple like a hike, she's like, oh, wait, hike. Rob Finlay [00:24:43]: Yeah, I really like science. And you know what the best part about a hike is? If you don't like it, you can turn left, right, or go back. You can do different things. And so using those kind of stories and those kind of tools will help them write the narrative of their own. I also believe in a lot in visualization. Describe to me. I love movies, I love television shows. And so I'm always like, let's create a scene for me. Rob Finlay [00:25:06]: Where do you work? Give me a picture of that. Talk to me. Are you driving into the office or are you walking knowing would you live in a city or would you be in the suburbs? And letting them build their own story in their brain. And that helps them get the sort of the, the, the destination and the direction started. It's not going to be everything, but it's going to give them the start. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]: Now, if people want to find out more about the book, about you, where should they go? Rob Finlay [00:25:30]: So they can go to heydadbook.com which is all about the book. If they want to learn more about me and the, the other stuff I've done, they can go to rob finlay.com that's f I n l a y.com also on all the social media stuff. So I try to show things from work, things from the book, things from the farm, try to make it as interesting as I can. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:53]: Now I always finish our interviews with what I call our dad Connection 6, which asks you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you and your relationship with your daughters. Are you ready? Rob Finlay [00:26:04]: Sure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:05]: What's one word that describes your relationships with your daughters? Rob Finlay [00:26:08]: Strong. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:09]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Rob Finlay [00:26:13]: Don't give up. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:14]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together? Rob Finlay [00:26:18]: Eating. They're going to hate me, by the way, when they get this. They're going to, they're going to like, follow me. I'm going to hear all about this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Rob Finlay [00:26:28]: Be happy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]: What's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Rob Finlay [00:26:34]: That I actually have it in. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:36]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Rob Finlay [00:26:43]: Be open and honest and communicate well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:46]: Rob, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for your willingness to share your own journey with your daughters. Thank you for putting this book out into the world. I'll definitely put links in the notes today for everyone to be able to find you and find the book. But I truly appreciate all that you're doing to be able to help fathers to connect with their kids in different ways, help young adults to make that transition into adulthood and more. And I wish you all the best. Rob Finlay [00:27:15]: Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Speaker D [00:27:48]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

If you're a dad looking to strengthen the bond with your daughter, the latest episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast is a must-listen. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis and featuring special guest Shon Hart, executive director of Involved Dad, this episode is a heartfelt exploration of the joys, challenges, and transformative power of intentional fatherhood. Real Talk About Fatherhood The conversation starts with honesty and vulnerability—Shon Hart recalls a moment where his well-intentioned advice to his daughter didn't land as he hoped. Owning his mistake, he shares the deep lesson he learned about parenting from a place of self-awareness, not old wounds. It's a reminder that as fathers, our pasts influence our advice, but our daughters need us to step up as our healthiest, most present selves. Building Open Communication Throughout the episode, Shon emphasizes the value of open, empathetic communication. He advocates for creating a home environment where daughters feel safe talking about anything—even the hard stuff. Shon's approach is simple but powerful: listen more, ask thoughtful questions, and let your daughters know you trust their judgment. By sharing his own stories—including mistakes—he models courage and honesty, encouraging other dads to meet their children with humility and understanding. Supporting Dreams and Independence One uplifting segment tackles the importance of letting your child pursue their own dreams, not yours. Shon, a former athlete, shares how he encourages his daughter in her passions—even if they don't mirror his own. His support, whether it's for her love of soccer or her entrepreneurial ambitions, demonstrates that empowering our children means respecting their individuality and aspirations. The Power of Being Present Perhaps the most resounding message is that fatherhood isn't about perfection—it's about presence. Whether it's through shared traditions, like greeting rituals when traveling, or making space for honest conversations, Shon and Dr. Lewis highlight the everyday moments that deepen connection. When dads show up authentically and consistently, they help their daughters grow into confident, independent women. This episode is packed with practical tips, real stories, and genuine wisdom for any father—or parent—seeking to build healthier, more meaningful relationships with their children. If you're ready to take another step on your fatherhood journey, tune in to this episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. You'll be inspired, challenged, and better equipped to be the dad your daughter needs. Listen now and join a community that's all about connection, growth, and love. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to come together, to learn together, and to be able to work on these relationships, these connections that we want to build with our daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: That's why every week, I love being able to be here, to be able to talk with you, to walk with you, because you and I are on a similar journey. I've got two daughters, you've got daughters. You're here because you want to build a better connection, and all of us want to do that. And I commend you for taking that step, taking that step to listen today, because that's the first step. And showing up here shows that you have an interest in learning to be able to take that next step, to build and make that relationship even stronger. Every week, I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can share their own journey, their own journey as a father, as a person that can provide other resources to you to help you in your journey in some way. And today we got another great guest. Shawn Hart is with us, and Shawn is the executive director of Involved dad, and we're going to talk more about Involved dad and what he is creating in the Flint, Michigan area and beyond. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: But Sean has had over a decade of experience in managing and spearheading fatherhood initiatives, and he has been working with dads, and not only in his own community, but beyond, to help them to be able to build those stronger relationships. And I had the opportunity to first get to meet Sean through the Dads with Daughters podcast that I used to do. And I love what he's doing in the community where I work in Flint, Michigan, but also in just being an advocate for fathers in general. And I think you're going to hear it in the conversation today and through the work that he does. And I'm really excited to have him here. Sean, thanks so much for being here today. Thank you. Shon Hart [00:02:53]: Thank you so much, Chris, for having me. I'm really excited to be back in your presence, my brother. So thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:59]: Well, I am really excited to have you back as well, because as I said, you know, we. We had an opportunity to meet, I'm gonna say, about a year and a half ago or so. And I love what you're doing, but first and foremost, before we get into involved dad, I want everyone to get to know you a little bit better. So I. And being that this is the dad and daughter connection, we've gotta talk about that relationship with. With your daughter. So what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've had the opportunity to share with your daughter and what made it so special? Shon Hart [00:03:31]: Well, I have several. Right. But I have two daughters. But I will speak to one moment where. Where I fumbled. Where I fumbled the bag. And this was probably about two years ago, Chris. I gave my daughter so not so best advice, and it wind up doing. Shon Hart [00:03:50]: Was causing her to become susp from school. So in a nutshell, she was being bullied by some young ladies and me being a protective dad, you know, I told her to go to school the next day and to confront the young lady. Not to fight, but to confront. And so what wind up happening? The school contacted us, told us about it. And if you know my daughter, she's very introverted, Chris. And I just really felt bad with her coming home, just feeling sad and me not being able to be a voice because she didn't want me to go to school. She didn't want me to go talk to the principal or the teachers. You know, she just said she'd handle it. Shon Hart [00:04:32]: Well, once she got suspended, I felt really bad, brought it up to the school. But this was the moment that night when we were leaving her soccer practice, and I brought it up and I asked her how she was feeling, and I knew she didn't feel well. Right. Being suspended because she's a daughter that really doesn't get in a whole lot of trouble. And she looked at me and she began to cry. And so my thing was like, man, these jokers have my daughter feeling bad. She's crying, she's sad. And so my response to her was, you know what? I'm going to request a meeting with the teacher, the principal, all of the people that should have kept her safe. Shon Hart [00:05:11]: And her response to me, she looked at me and her response was, is like, dad, I'm not crying because of the suspension. I'm Crying because of what you told me to do. She said, I did not want to go to school and confront, I didn't want to do all of these things. And that's why she was crying. And so immediately, man, I felt guilty, I felt so bad because she's very introverted, doesn't like conflict. And I believe there's a way that you can help teach your children to advocate for themselves using their voice. But when she did that, I felt bad. And so I realized that, Chris, that the advice that I gave her was not advice from a 45 year old adult. Shon Hart [00:05:55]: The advice was from that 13 year old boy, that 13 year old boy that still was living on the inside of me, who when he was 13 did not fight this young man named Titi because he was afraid. And all of the kids in the school knew that I was afraid and laughed. And so here it was at 45, I realized that I wanted my then daughter, who was 15, to avenge the 13 year old Sean. And so I put my trauma on hers. And so in that encounter that we had, it gave me the opportunity to confront the 13 year old boy and me and give him some grace and ask him to forgive me and go through the whole process. But I was able to tell my daughter that very story once I made the connection of what really took place and my daughter in my arms cried and said that she forgave me. And it was a powerful exchange, man. So it was two people that were healed in that moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:57]: So thinking about that example that you just gave, what did you learn from it that will help you in the future in fostering a positive communication with your daughters? Shon Hart [00:07:07]: The biggest thing is about me being healthy, right? Parenting from a healthy place. Because my daughters and I, my children, we have a very, very strong relationship as far as communicating. My children talk to me about the most difficult things to me and my wife. But what was most important, what I've learned is, is that it gave me the opportunity to, to become a healthier parent. That when I make decisions or when conflict or adversity arise, that I would be a lot healthier. Being able to look through the lens of being more clear, not looking at, through the lens of some of my childhood trauma and parenting. So that was the biggest thing that I gave. I forgot all about that moment. Shon Hart [00:07:52]: I totally forgot. And it wasn't until that exchange where I remember like, oh my God, I remember when I was at this age, I did this and I'm like, man, maybe that's why I respond certain ways when my children Come home and say people are picking with them or whatever the case, I'm constantly reverting back to that little boy and me and how I responded in saying, I'm going to make sure that my children don't do what I do or did. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:19]: How do you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into their own person? Shon Hart [00:08:25]: I'm very open. I ask a lot of questions. I will give advice, but I ask a lot of questions trying to help them to come to the right conclusion and have a lot of empathy when I'm talking them through it. So I want them to understand that I understand where they're coming from. Like, there's nothing new under the sun. So I never allowed them to think. Think that their dad was always perfect. So where there's opportunity for me to give my example of my life or other people, examples that I've known that have made or that was confronted with similar situations. Shon Hart [00:09:06]: Mine is from boy and theirs from the girl perspective, right? So even like my oldest daughter, when early, when she was young, man, we talked about. I'm a firm believer is that when your children get exposed, then you need to have that conversation, regardless of whatever it is. Because if I try to ignore what they just witnessed or was exposed to at school, it is my job, my responsibility to have that conversation, to make sure that they're getting the right information. And so even when my daughter, my oldest, said that she's 21, about to be 22, when she was exposed to sex or whatever the case, kids are talking about it. So we had the conversation and she had a little boyfriend. And so my thing was, at the end of the day, when we got to the place of talking about sex, my thing was like, listen, before you do any of that, just give me a word that we can talk first. Just talk to me. And so my thing about it, and we had talked about a whole bunch of stuff, but my thing was, what she knew at the end of the day was is that my dad was there before. Shon Hart [00:10:06]: He understands. My thing was like, listen, let's process it. Let's make sure you're making the right decision for your. It's your decision. It's not somebody else manipulating you. Is not your classmates you. This is not that. And so, Chris, man, my daughter made it out of high school without doing some things or whatever the case, man. Shon Hart [00:10:24]: And when she got older and she was like, I'm looking to do this, she didn't come to me first. She went to my wife, right? But she did bring it to me, so. Which was cool. And so that's the type of environment that I tried to create, Chris. Far from perfect, though, but that's what I try to create. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:40]: Well, talk to me about that, because I think hearing what you just said, a lot of dads want to create that, but don't always know the steps. Don't always know how best to step on that path and move down that path to be able to build that positive relationship and build that open communication that you're talking about. What would you recommend to dads in starting on that path? Shon Hart [00:11:04]: The first part, man, is to deal with self before I can even create a safe space for my daughters to feel safe enough to talk to me about some of their most intimate. Chris, man, I tell you, yeah, I'm keep it pg, But I just want to be very transparent, man. My daughter came home one day, and she was like, this boy was trying to get her or try to convince her that was okay for him to put his hand down her pants. And, you know, all of this stuff, like, she coming to me telling me this information. And so, brother, I'm cringing. I want to go to school. And like, yo, let me Adam, you know? But it was important on what my response was, right? Because I wanted her to understand that it's not about the boy, that it's about her, and that I trust her, that I trust her. I believe in her, that she will make these decisions. Shon Hart [00:11:53]: Because if my thing, if I would have jumped to, I'm going to school, I'm doing this, it would be telling her that I did not believe that she had the ability, the tools, and I didn't trust her enough to make a right decision. And so I had to model what I promised her, that when you bring me the most intimate, the most difficult, like, we will process this, and we will come to a conclusion. And so that was a moment. She brought it to me, and I'm like, all right, let's process this. And we gonna process this until, you know, my head, we going to process this to. You are on my side, and you understand. But, yeah, so that's the first thing, is that you have to start working on you. And where you see that there are blind spots, like, really confront them, like, having that conversation of, like, man, why do I believe this? Why do I believe this? What can I do? And this is my last thing that I say as it relates to this, Chris, is that I am a firm believer with my daughters, because they're two different girls. Shon Hart [00:12:53]: What I would say is what does she need at this moment? I'm big on that. Like, what does this individual child need in this moment? One may need something totally different where the versus the other may need something else. And so when I have come to that conclusion, it gives me the ability to make a better decision in this moment, not based off of something else. They may need to be disciplined. But guess what? In this moment, discipline is not what she needs. What she need is this. And so that's why I try to parent from that place. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:26]: Now, I know we talked about a week or so ago and your youngest daughter was out on a college visit and this next question really gets into that. So as I think about that, because I'm going through that myself with my own youngest daughter. How do you support your daughters in pursuing their passion and dreams? Shon Hart [00:13:46]: Man, that's really good because this one, hers is in action, right? So me being a former football player, played at Michigan State University, you know, just high level, like all things sports, right? Like sports, sports, sports. And so I realized that, man, my life is mine and theirs is theirs. And so my thing is like, because I know what it feels like to wake up every day and, and live your dream and live your passion and do what burns you like that, keep the fire going. That's my desire for my children, right? So I get to wake up every day and help people. The opportunity of helping heal families. And so that's one of the most rewarding things, right? And then just recently, you know, I'm able to. I was unable to make it to the NFL, but now, Chris, I'm working with NFL players, been coaching NFL players. So I'm living my dream as it relates to a career. Shon Hart [00:14:41]: And so when you talk about your children, my daughter, who is extremely athletic, and I want to say this because this is important, extremely athletic, has the ability to do some amazing things. Well, I realized that she liked soccer, she doesn't love soccer. And she's been gifted with ability that can take her for, you know, places. And early on I'm like, man, if you would only do this and do that like you. But her thing is like, that is not her dream. Soccer for her is a ends to. Is. Is a, is a means to end. Shon Hart [00:15:14]: So she love it enough to where she enjoys playing it. She's gonna give her all because she's been gifted, she's really been gifted to play this sport. And she's gonna give you what you need. But her biggest desire is that she want to become a business owner. She wants to own her own Own hair salon, she want to do nails and things of that nature. Like that's what really drives her. So my thing is like, yo, whatever you desire, how can I support you, you know, from that standpoint. So she understands that soccer is a means to an end. Shon Hart [00:15:48]: Will allow her put her in a position to get a high education, to continue to play the sport that she enjoys. But it will put her in a better position to understand business if she go get a higher education and to get the finances for the university to pay for it. So. So that's where I'm at. Is that because I am living my dream, I want my children to live theirs, despite what I want for them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:14]: Now, what's a tradition or routine that you've been able to create that strengthens your bonds with your daughters? Shon Hart [00:16:21]: Man, I don't know if we have any straight up routines, but there's a lot of moments that they do. Like every time I go out of town, I come back, my 21 year old is our thing. I guess it is a tradition. She created it, not me. I can't say that I came up with it, but. And I don't know how much longer we can do that this job. But whenever I leave and come back out of town, she would like a little girl. You ready, Daddy? You ready? Yeah. Shon Hart [00:16:50]: And my wife look at us like we crazy, but she was sprint from across the room and jump into my arms where I gotta catch her now, man. She's again, she's 21, about to be 22, so she's not a very little girl anymore. So now I gotta brace myself, I gotta catch this big grown woman. So. So that's something that myself and my oldest daughter do all the time. And then my youngest daughter, she does this. I don't know what you call it, rabbit ears or whatever. Like almost like a fish pump. Shon Hart [00:17:20]: And when we come in for the pump, I gotta guess if she's going to put her peace sign up under my hand or is she gonna give me a fist bump so she always keep me on my toes. Okay. Is this gonna be a connection or are you gonna trick me? So that's something. I guess I didn't know that we had something, but I guess we do now. You made me think about it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:38]: Sometimes those moments can be small. They can be large, but they're meaningful all the same. Shon Hart [00:17:44]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:44]: Now, I mentioned that you're the executive director of Involved dad and you work with lots of different dads, not only in your own community, but beyond. And I guess let's Go back to the beginning. What personal experiences led you to establish involved dad and how have they shaped your vision for the organization? Shon Hart [00:18:05]: Unfortunately or fortunately. Right. Depends on what you believe. But my dad just passed away in 24, right before Christmas. By the time he passed away, we had a great relationship Prior to that, years ago, not prior to, but years ago, we didn't have the best relationship relationship in his eyes. Quite sure he thought everything was fine. But as a little boy, I definitely was not cool with our relationship. Definitely didn't know if he loved me or not. Shon Hart [00:18:32]: Definitely didn't know if. Forget love. Didn't know if he liked me. He was a man of very few words. Definitely old school, discipline style, and so very rigid. And so I just had some issues with all of that. And so when I've gotten older, when I started working in a prison, because I worked in a prison for 10 years. But when I got to the prison, an inmate, David Kaiser, looked at me and he's like, chat. Shon Hart [00:18:58]: And they used to call me Chat. He was like, appreciate. We really appreciate the work that you do with us. And we are growing. But he asked me, he's like, man, who's working with you, who's healing you? Because I guess he can really see some of my trauma that was still dealing with, you know, that I didn't deal with. And so at that time, I still was dealing with unforgiveness of my brother being murdered. Gentlemen killed my brother. So I had an issue with inmates and then, you know, didn't have the best relationship with my father. Shon Hart [00:19:28]: So. But my experience with my dad of him not being involved, that's why we call it involved dad. So he was in the home, but he wasn't involved. It allowed me to see work through my own while I was working with the men in the prison because I just saw a pattern of these men being incarcerated. They were leaving children at home. And when you begin to talk to the men that were incarcerated, they. Many of them didn't know their real fathers or didn't have relationships. And so that is what really, really sparked the. Shon Hart [00:20:00]: That sparked everything within me, like put me on that journey and path to healing families. And so it was working in the prison that awakened that for me, Chris, that I said, I want to be a solution to the children out there that felt like me that did not have access to a father so we could break those generational curses. So that's where it started. So really wasn't about the fathers, about the children, But I just decided that it was best for me to help children, to help the fathers who many people didn't want to work with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:30]: So you just talked about the fact that some of these dads were in the home but were not engaged, they were not involved. How do you define involved? Shon Hart [00:20:38]: Yeah, involved to me is being emotionally present, physically present. And if you believe in a higher being, helping your children to believe in something bigger than themselves. And for me, my faith is really important. And so I want my children to, from a faith standpoint, to know, not only know the God that I serve, I want them to have their own personal experience, to have their own personal relationship. And so. So that's what I define it as, right? Just being available and being very, very transparent. From the aspect of. Is that I know that me being an entrepreneur, that I travel quite a bit, other people pull as well. Shon Hart [00:21:22]: As I continue to grow and my name has gotten larger and larger, that more and more people are requesting my time. And so it's that balance. And so being honest with my children about what I can and cannot do and, you know, and making them part of it, just taking them with me where I can, you know, just keeping them present, like, okay, dad is going to be gone this time and that time. But when I'm present, I'm present. So I'm not distracted by doing these other things. But when I'm present, I'm here in their presence. So that way they can feel that I do care and that I do value them. So that's how I define being involved in a short way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:01]: Now I know that Involved dad offers a number of different programs like man to Man University and the Impact program. Can you talk a little bit more about how these programs were developed and their intended impact on fathers and families? Shon Hart [00:22:14]: Yeah. So when we started out with man to man, which was in a prison, move that to the community. And so we just started. I just created a peer. I wanted a peer to peer support group, place where men can come and just support one another in the community. And so in doing so, we began to hear the various challenges because I wasn't, you know, I didn't have a baby mama, quote unquote, you know, so I didn't know what that looked like. I was co parenting, but we were married, so I didn't understand the nuances of having to co parent with another parent not in the home. And so listening to the gentleman that was coming, we began to hear the various challenges. Shon Hart [00:22:56]: And so with that being said, once we begin to hear those challenges, we wanted to help solve the problem. And that's where impact was created, where we partnered with the local friend of the court, because the friend of the court had access to mostly all of the men that we were working with when they started talking about child support issues or access to their children. The friend of the court or the Office of Child Support was the pathway that all those families was connected to them. So, anyway, I partnered with local attorneys, Legal Services of Eastern Michigan Mediation. So I connected with many partners that had some level of connection that can help us help these fathers get connection. What we've done that started to grow, get people connected. But what we realized, Chris, is that we were getting guys access without considering if there was any form of domestic violence or harm being taken place. All we cared about was access. Shon Hart [00:23:56]: And so once we became aware that, like, hey, in some of these cases, there may have been some harm taking place. And so with us providing attorney, what we were doing was almost equipping the father to further cause harm if mom didn't have access to an attorney. Here we have this attorney that is taking them to court, and now the judges are ordering these guys to reconnect. And so as a fatherhood agency, we wanted to be very responsible. And so then that's when we started doing work in domestic violence, ensuring, making sure that if we are made aware of a father, if he had history of domestic violence, that we would no longer provide legal assistance. We would still support him and assist him. Right, because we want him to heal and grow, because eventually he will get access to his child. But we wanted to make sure that he was required to go through domestic violence classes because we wanted individuals to be safe. Shon Hart [00:24:52]: And then we added supervised visitation, our family matters, where families that they are not ready to be alone or they do not need to have be in a presence of their previous partner, that we will use our agency to do supervised visits or exchanges. So we were very intentional about adding programs and services with a holistic approach. So not just through the lens of the father. We wanted to look at it a lens through the mother, father, and child. Right? So how does this child. What does this child need when there's reconnection? What does that mother need when that father is now coming back into the picture? And so that's our approach. And so those are still our three main programs, but we have dialogue, which work with young people and the parent, so helping them better communicate. We have our PROTECT program, where we have two fatherhood coordinators that go out and train men on how to be allies against abuse and neglect for children. Shon Hart [00:25:55]: And how to be an ally for moms. So that's their sole purpose about bringing allies almost with the CPR model. And then lastly, we have our Family Forward program where we help families navigate the child support system. Both mom or dad, you have a child support case, and a lot of times they don't know how to navigate it because it's so difficult or intimidating. But they can contact us where we will help them navigate and better understand what's going on in the courts. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:27]: Now, as I mentioned at the beginning, I know that this program started and grew from working with dads in the Flint. What are some of the most significant challenges that fathers in the Flint areas face, and how does involved dad address those issues? Shon Hart [00:26:43]: The biggest challenge, honestly, is the fairness as it relates to having access. Because what happens is sometime, Chris, is that they go to court and a judge will order the parent to see the child every other week for an hour, every other week for two hours. That's a very big challenge where you're talking about having influence on your child. And you mean to tell me that you. It's minimized to. Or just placed at an hour, two hours, put it this way, like four hours a whole month. That's very difficult to have some type of bond and influence on your child when you don't have enough access to cause some form of impression or to help guide. So that's a very difficult thing of helping the families to navigate. Shon Hart [00:27:38]: You know, that's very difficult. Unfortunately, I had a dad who was using our supervised visitation. He wasn't in our program, but he was ordered to use our supervised visitation, Chris. And while he was at our agency, I could only speak at our agency. Can't speak about what he was doing in the public or whatever. But it appears that he was making some progress at the agency. We still think that he has some ways to grow. But anyway, the judge initially said that, hey, you can have unsupervised visits for so many hours in a week. Shon Hart [00:28:11]: The other partner did not like it or whatever the case, so they took him back to court. It was really ugly. And we have to always stay neutral. Again, we only have a snap shot of this family. The families know exactly what happens outside of it. But. But anyway, he did not want to come back. He didn't contact us, didn't know all of the stuff that he was going through. Shon Hart [00:28:35]: But he wind up harming himself to a place to where he's no longer with us. Just finding out that it was so difficult to deal with the case, him dealing with it that he thought it was better to harm himself. So again, I don't know the extent of it, but my point of when I'm driving home is that we just never know where families are dealing with. Especially men sometimes do not know how to express themselves and they will stay in the cave and just was become isolated rather than seeking help. And, you know, and I just want to normalize seeking help. When you are dealing with difficult situations, especially when it comes to. To your children, we have to normalize seeking therapy, normalize asking for help, attending groups, the whole nine. So I bring that story up to normalize seeking help now from one end to the other. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:28]: Can you share a success story that's exemplified the transformative effect of involved dad? Shon Hart [00:29:34]: Absolutely, man. The best success stories for me is when we've been able to have this gentleman who the dad was black, mom was white. The parents did not like that. They were interracial couple. Her parents wind up moving her out of the state. I don't want to say the state or the city, but mom lost contact with dad. He enrolled in our program. We were able to get him to reconnect with mom. Shon Hart [00:30:04]: Years went by. Mom was extremely excited to work with us to help father reconnect with his child. And wound up happening is that we paid for this gentleman to drive to said city and meet his daughter for the very first time. And so that's been two years ago. And now they have a very beautiful relationship because of the reconciliation. We gave him the tools on how to to be this new father, helped him to navigate on how to reintroduce himself to his child. So now that he has access and they build in this relationship. Just last year, in this previous cohort, we had a father who was able to reconnect with his son who was living with the aunt of his child's mother. Shon Hart [00:30:56]: And he was able to get custody of the child because he had a safer environment for the child. Where the judge did agree is like, okay, you know what? In this case, it is definitely better for the dad to have custody of the child. And so when we have stories like this where guys who didn't have access and some of the cases where the mothers are excited to say, you know what? We do want him to have access, but we just want him to be better. And looking at that better is him going through the program, receiving all of the education, the information that he need to show up in a way that his child need him to be. So we have many stories each cohort where guys who didn't have access. Have access to their child. But we do it again in the most safe way because we don't want to bring more trauma or chaos to those families. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:54]: I can only imagine that leading an organization like Involved dad is demanding. How has this journey influenced your personal growth and perspective on fatherhood? Shon Hart [00:32:04]: First of all, I'm grateful. I'm grateful to, number one, my wife, my partner, my best friend. It has really made me appreciate her more, made me have the difficult conversations that were very, very difficult for me early on. Working with these men has helped me to become a better communicator. And so with that, my children get to see what a healthy marriage, what a healthy partnership look like. My children get to see the best version of me. Because if I'm seeing something taking place, I'm always reflecting. So what it does is make me come home and apologize, like, oh, my God, I missed it, right? So I'm learning vicariously through other people as well. Shon Hart [00:32:49]: My thing is, as I'm helping other people heal, when I'm hearing these stories like, ooh, Sean, that wasn't the best. Yeah, Sean, you could have did that better. So I'm using those things. So this has definitely given me the opportunity to do the internal work. And I'm a firm believer of this, and I say it all the time with those that I serve, is that I never want to be a public success in a private failure. And so I let that be a driving factor for me, is that I never want to be someone on the outside that my children cannot be proud of on the inside. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:22]: Now, looking ahead, what are your goals for the growth and development of Involved Ed in the next five years? Shon Hart [00:33:27]: We are looking to expand to other cities. So right now, we have submitted some grants, some opportunities that has come up. So we are looking to expand, expand to Lansing, into the Detroit area. That's where we want to expand and bring our model. We believe we have a very, very unique model. The way that we do the work, again, taking that holistic approach, looking at it from all of the angles and not just creating the space for men just to communicate, but we are actually solving problems. So the things that men are facing, the things that families are facing, we are actually solving problem, getting them connected to the right resources. We are educating them under our roof with our method and models, partnering with the right people, that can close the gap. Shon Hart [00:34:15]: Because we really believe that if we can heal men internally and have them to show up as the best version of themselves for their children being more involved, reducing what it looked like for children to not have access to their fathers. We believe that we will change the trajectory of our communities as it relates to crime or children being harmed physically from people, from unsafe people. When a father is more involved, we look at it from academically, they perform better. So those things like we believe our model is one of the best models to follow and we are looking to bring it to other cities to make an impact and partner with the right people to make this, this become a reality. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:00]: Now, if people want to find out more about involved dad, where should they go? Shon Hart [00:35:03]: Our website. And we are on social media, so involvedad.org I n v o l V-E-D d a d.org and then they can also find a lot about myself because I post or share. There may have been articles and things of that nature following me. And that's Sean Hart S H O n Hart H A R T so. So between those two places, you can definitely find on social media online different places of that nature. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:31]: And we'll definitely put the links in our notes today. Now, Sean, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. It's six more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Shon Hart [00:35:41]: I'm ready. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:41]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Shon Hart [00:35:46]: Ooh, adventurous. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:48]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Shon Hart [00:35:53]: Don't spank my daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:54]: What's one activity you and your daughter love doing together? Shon Hart [00:35:58]: Well, I would say travel. Those girls love to travel. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:01]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Shon Hart [00:36:06]: Know who you are and whose you are. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:08]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Shon Hart [00:36:12]: That I needed healing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:14]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their. Shon Hart [00:36:22]: Daughters to realize that it's not about you, it's about the whole. It's not about them, it's about the whole. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:30]: Well, Sean, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing your own journey, for the work that you're doing in involve dad, and I wish you all the best. Shon Hart [00:36:38]: Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate it, man. You keep doing what you do, brother. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:42]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and daughter connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Shon Hart [00:37:13]: We're all in the same boat and it's full full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Call it astronauts and firemen? Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them? Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

What happens when you combine a love for music, humor, and heartfelt connection? You get the Marsh Family—a musical, tight-knit group from Kent, England, whose story was recently featured on the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast with Dr. Christopher Lewis. In a moving and entertaining episode, Dr. Lewis sits down with Ben Marsh and his daughters, Ella and Tess, to explore what it truly means to connect as a family and nurture confident, independent daughters. You can also find the family on YouTube! Music as the Heartbeat of Family Life One of the central themes in this episode is how music has become the Marsh Family's language of love, fun, and togetherness. Ben, Ella, and Tess describe how their music-making began as bedtime lullabies and evolved into viral parodies that resonate worldwide. Yet, at its core, their musical journey remains something deeply personal—a way to create lasting memories while laughing together and sometimes tackling tough topics through humor-filled social commentary. Intentional Parenting and Meaningful Moments Dr. Lewis guides the conversation into the small, everyday rituals that make a big difference. For the Marsh family, open conversations around the dinner table—discussing daily highlights and "lowlights"—have become foundational. These practices show how dads (and parents in general) can help their kids feel seen, heard, and valued. The episode highlights Ben's balancing act between guiding his daughters and giving them room to grow, especially as they move through the teenage years, and how parenting "by negotiation" fosters independence and mutual respect. Navigating Modern Challenges Together Parenting in the digital age isn't easy, especially for families in the public eye. The Marshes talk candidly about how they handle online attention—both the praise and the criticism—by maintaining open dialogue, deliberate boundaries, and always putting family first. Their rule? Everyone has a veto on family projects and their personal growth takes precedence over public performances. Connection, Laughter, and Lasting Impact This episode is packed with relatable stories, sincere advice, and a reminder that authentic connection—as a parent, partner, or creative collaborator—requires presence, empathy, and a willingness to see the world through your child's eyes. If you're looking for inspiration, new ideas on parenting, or just an uplifting story about a family who sings their way through life's joys and challenges, this episode is not to be missed. Listen to the full Marsh Family interview on the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, and discover how you can strengthen your own family bonds—one note, conversation, or shared moment at a time. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on those bonds, those connections that we have with our daughters. I love that you come back every week to be able to learn more, to experience more, to hear more, and. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: And really gain insight into how we all are working to build those strong relationships with our own kids, our own daughters. And that's why every week, I bring on different guests, different people with different experiences that can share some of that journey with you. Because all of us are going to father in different ways. All of us are going to be able to build those relationships with our daughters in different ways, but we can learn from each other. And learning from each other is so important. And I always hope that after every one of these episodes, you've gained some, I'm going to say, tools for your toolbox, some things that you can just take with you to be able to start thinking about fatherhood in a little bit different way and give you some things to think about in regards to how you are working on those relationships that you want to have with your own daughters. This week we got an. We've got some great guests. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:04]: And I'm using the plural because we have three guests with us today. They're all a part of the Marsh family. And if you have never heard of the Marsh family, you need to go check them out, because the Marsh Family is a musical family group based in Faversham, Kent, and they are amazing vocalists. The whole family is doing music together. And one of the things that I love is that they are taking music that you know and love, but they're putting their own spin on it. So, you know, I. On their website, they say. They say sometimes compared to the Partridge Family or in Weird Al Yankovit, talk about different types of music. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:46]: But I love it because their music does have Humor and they, they have a ton of parodies that they do together and you can just tell that they really enjoy being together, making music together and creating a family dynamic that is really powerful. So we're going to be talking about this journey that they've been on, not only in their music but also in their relationship as father and daughters. Because I have Ben, who is Ben Marsh, the father of the Marsh family. And then I have his two daughters that are with us, Ella and Tess. So I'm really excited to have them here and to introduce them to you. Ben, Ella, Tess, thanks so much for being here today. Ben Marsh [00:03:26]: Thanks for having us. Yes, we're delighted to be on the podcast and a chance to kind of reflect. We're usually doing this music at such pace and this household is a very busy one. So it's going to be a bit weird and different to kind of sit down and reflect on parenting modes or childing modes or so. Yeah, really looking forward to the conversation. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:43]: Well, I'm really excited to have you on and I, you know, when I just had dads on, I am able to talk to you just about being a dad to daughters. But I love it when I have dads and daughters on because we can have a little bit of a back and forth here to talk about this journey, I guess first and foremost, Ben, let's I want to start with you and as you think back to the moments that you've been able to share with your girls, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughters and what made it so special? Ben Marsh [00:04:10]: Oh, there are so many to pick from. I think there was a lovely moment at their grandparents ruby wedding anniversary that involved because as an adult you're kind of used to going to weddings and funerals and those sort of big set piece punctuation occasions and for there to be a moment when the kids were still quite young but you sort of knew they were going to remember it and to have a big kind of festival carnival atmosphere. And actually we did all this was before we shared anything online or shared anything in the real world, the public world. But we did all do a kind of mini musical performance for the grandparents there. And so there happened to be someone that got a photo that got a shot of one of the kids kind of sat on a, on another grandparents lap watching us all performing. And it's just one of those bits that you really feel you, you're going to remember forever and kind of get locked in. And it was a weird mix of Kind of being super proud of the kids having the guts to go and stand there and take a risk. The girls were so excited that what they. Ben Marsh [00:05:05]: What they do, in fact, they still kind of do it. You can see them tensing up just to stop sort of moving, because they move since being in the womb. But I remember watching them on that occasion, that Ruby wedding, and they were singing and their hands were moving like this as they were performing. So it was a mix of kind of pride, also knowing it was just a lovely moment. You have to savor those little moments before they fly past. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:24]: And Ella and Tess, what would you say to that? What moments really stand out for you? Ella Marsh [00:05:29]: I'd say for me, it was often on a kind of Saturday morning when we were much younger and it would be us four. We'd wake up quite early and we come downstairs and we have a Wii, which is like a Nintendo brand. And we used to love doing Just Dance. And dad would always come the morning in his pajama bottoms and we'd all be there for hours just kind of working through the Just Dances, which was a very, very memorable moment. Tess Marsh [00:05:52]: There's so many to choose from. I'd say probably a very recent one that was very like a fun experience. I don't think Ella was there. It was a kind of road trip that me and dad took a couple weekends ago. Went to a friend's house and then our grandparents. And it was just really nice because I don't really get to spend much time alone. It's dad. So it's, yeah, really interesting to just have quite a long time in the gut. Ben Marsh [00:06:16]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:16]: Now, girls, one question that I have directly for you is, what's one thing your dad does that truly makes you feel seen, heard and valued as a daughter? Ella Marsh [00:06:28]: I think it's just dinner times every day, kind of when we come in from school, it will always be a how was your day? And he always says highlights and lowlights, which means that we can't just come in and go, oh, it was good, and then walk up off stairs. We just kind of have to sit down and actually have a conversation about our day and give him the rundown of how it was. So it's just kind of that feeling of actually someone wanting to know how your day was every single day. Tess Marsh [00:06:51]: It's just a nice feeling to come back into. Yeah. And he also remembers all the little things. Like he remembers how I had a horse riding lesson today. So the first thing he says when he sees me is, oh, how was your horse riding lesson? How Was it. So he like remembers all the details. Ben Marsh [00:07:04]: Are just going that response where they just go. And it happens more as they've gotten older and older and they just go, good. And they leave it there. And so I think the highlights then started from that because I was like, no, I want to know something interesting about your day. Like, I've been at work all day, so like drop me one or two highlights. And then I sort of realized you're only getting like maybe they didn't have a great day or maybe it wasn't just highlights. So I don't know. Is that a made up word? Low light? Ella Marsh [00:07:28]: I think you just made that up over the years. You just developed that one. Ben Marsh [00:07:31]: But it's become a thing now, which is nice. Yeah, it's become a. Become a little ritual. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:34]: So, Ben, your daughters are getting older, both teenagers, and you can't stop that. How do you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into their own person? Ben Marsh [00:07:46]: That, that is a huge question because I feel like it. The answer to that changes every day. It changes with my mood every day and what I've got on my plate. It changes with their mood every day. It's always a work in progress. I think that's what's key. And I try to be mindful that balance needs to change and you have to sort of move with it. And if there was a pie chart where, when they were much smaller, it felt like the pie chart of my energy and investment and sort of watchfulness, scrutiny, I don't know, whatever you want to call it. Ben Marsh [00:08:16]: Quite a lot of that, it was like a Pac Man. Like most of that was me. And I wanted to know what was going on with them and where they were. And I think trying to open up that Pacman and give them more time and more space. And it's always a bit of a negotiation, like about screen time, the usual stuff. With teenagers, it's a different challenge. It's kind of screen time. And I think, but, but also as they get older and are making those decisions, it's right that you step back and allow them a bit of that space. Ben Marsh [00:08:42]: So, yeah, I would be. I think we're doing okay. I think, you know, there are, there are always points where you realize someone's not. Not happy about that balance or about that pie chart. And I wanted to know where somebody was not. Because I. I think it's just when you're in that mode where there's a negotiation in there, it's just important to be up front about why you're concerned. And to make sure that they don't. Ben Marsh [00:09:04]: I try to make sure that they don't think of me just as a tyrant when it comes to screen time or, you know, that's enough of the laptop. It's coming out of the room because it's been on until. But that. This wasn't long ago. This is like two nights ago. It was kind of on until midnight or something. And that was too late. They were tired the next day. Ben Marsh [00:09:21]: And so I tried to be just honest with them. Say, listen, if you. If you'd manage to kind of not get tempted into that, and it hadn't stayed on and I hadn't heard it and it hadn't been disrupting me and you will not knack it the next day, it wouldn't have been a problem. But because there's this. You've sort of stepped over that line. And just try and make sure everyone understands it. And most of the time, we're okay. I think in these guys are, you know, get sort of get it and understand that what I'm trying to do is 99.9 of the time. Ben Marsh [00:09:46]: What I think is in their best interests. It's not for, you know, some other reason. I don't know how you feel about that. Tess Marsh [00:09:52]: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:54]: And girls, I guess in the same line of thought, how does your dad encourage you to be confident and independent in each of your lives? Ella Marsh [00:10:02]: I think for me, it's giving us the choice. So with things like alcohol, which for a lot of young teenagers is quite an interesting thing because they don't often experience it, and it can often lead to problems if they haven't had it. With us, it was kind of like at New Year's you can have a glass with the family. So it wasn't like when we're off with friends, it's a really new thing. And the screen time and stuff, he kind of does it in that he will say, how much do you think you should have? Which kind of sets you back a bit. And you're like, he's giving me the choice. But actually it makes you kind of reflect and be like, oh, okay, maybe I should have an hour and a half a day. And then you kind of reach an understanding where you both agree and you're kind of given that choice as well as realizing that you should probably be mature about it and sensible in your decisions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:48]: Yeah. Tess Marsh [00:10:48]: And there's also this stuff about, like, building our confidence. Like, there's been loads of times, I think when we went to America, we went to Universal Studios. There was, like, so many roller coasters, and I didn't want to go on any of them because I'm terrified of roller coasters. Like, he gives us, like, a push, so, like, he'll tell us, oh, no, no, you can do it. But he never, like, pushes, like, too far when I really don't want to do something. He would, like, never force us to do something. But, like, he sometimes just gives us a little push. And then I ended up quite enjoying one of the roller coasters. Tess Marsh [00:11:17]: Not one of the. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]: Now, Ben, none of us are perfect. We make mistakes. What's a mistake that you made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection? Ben Marsh [00:11:32]: I'm tempted to say you should just ask my wife, because I'm sure she's got a much longer list than I could come up with. She's upstairs. I think there are times when my drive and kind of determination to get something done and the kind of perfectionism that I impose on myself, I think sometimes I put on other people. I have expectations of other people. And there was a time in particular, actually connected to the music because that's something where we're always super mindful of what's a reasonable expectation, what's a benefit to everybody, what's something that everyone's enjoying and when. Have you stepped too far? Like, has any of the kids ever not been able to go to a friend's house or whatever? Because we're doing a music thing and it's become more than just a hobby. And so there was one time, I remember actually with it, with Ella trying to get a sort of cornet part in for a stem for what was going to be a kind of commercial track. And she was doing a brilliant job. Ben Marsh [00:12:21]: And the cornet's a really tough instrument to play. I can't play the cornet. It's got these valves. I don't understand brass instruments. Right. It's got. So there's all different sort of things can go wrong to do with the lip, to do with the mouthpiece, to do with the valves. And this was also like 8 or 9 o' clock in the evening when she was a bit younger and she was kind of struggling to do it, but she was really only carrying on because she wanted to do it for me. Ben Marsh [00:12:42]: And that's what she was thinking about. And I wasn't really processing this in the moment. I was like, we have to get this done. So I got caught in a loop that I hadn't realized. And I vividly remember she kind of did her absolute best. We kind of run out of energy. Her lips were really tired and she. She went upstairs. Ben Marsh [00:12:57]: And then it kind of dawned on me over the next half hour and I went upstairs and I probably don't even remember the conversation, but I vividly remember the conversation kind of going, I'm really, really sorry. I got that wrong. Like, I shouldn't have asked you to do that more. That was unreasonable. So I kind of recognize that one. I'm sure there's loads more that I haven't recognized that maybe they. They can think of. What's lovely is when you watch some of what you've set or you hope that you've set in motion and you see it coming back and it catches you out slightly. Ben Marsh [00:13:26]: So even to do with like screen time, they're now old enough that they pick us up on the hypocrisy of us going, oh yeah, you're on your phone at breakfast or whatever. And I get a little, a little cheer up a comment from one of them. And I'm like, that's totally fair enough. Like, you can't set one stall out as a parent because you're in parenting mode. And then I guess that's part of the changes dynamic with where we're at now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:47]: Now you started talking about music, so let's transition over there and start talking about this music. I guess let's go back and tell me a little bit about this journey and how this journey began and what inspired you to start performing together. Ella Marsh [00:14:00]: So originally, I think we've just done it since we were babies. We did it as kind of family videos we'd send to. And the first one that actually went viral was because we were sending a birthday video to our gran, so it wasn't actually meant to go anywhere. And then I think one of your work friends asked to share it and it went kind of crazy from there. So, yeah, it all kind of originally stemmed from just genuinely wanting to play music as a family because we're very musical. We have very musical genes from our nana and granddad and all of those kinds of people. So it just stemmed, I think, from wanting to play as a family. Ben Marsh [00:14:34]: We'd always played. It was. It was actually part of the parenting. It was to get the kids to sleep. I mess around on an acoustic guitar and, you know, you might as well do something while you're trying to rock them or they're bored or sing them songs. And it kind of grew into them joining in. So this is going to sound really horrendous. I'm not sure that we've shared it with anyone apart from like our little Patreon community, but we wrote them a song each when they were little and so that they had their, their song. Ben Marsh [00:15:00]: Actually their elder brother at one stage thought that I don't like Happy Feet or something. The penguin thing where everybody has a song and we're shocked at nursery that other people didn't have a song. So it's always been part of the fabric of the household. And as Ella said, we dance and just using the beautiful, uplifting shared experience of music and dance. And we also used to live in Scotland and our grandparents are all from England, so there were lots of long drives and in the car we would stick on Les Miserables a bit, you know, musical. They'd all join in. So yeah, we'd always been sort of used to singing together. And then it was, it was the pandemic really when nobody had anything to do. Ben Marsh [00:15:36]: Nobody plus nobody had anything to watch. And then for whatever reason, one of, one of our parodies really sort of caught light and it was, that was, that was a special moment and a big change to our family dynamic because we hadn't really thought that we could reach or engage anyone in the world or in the United States or Australia or other places. And we've ended up with this amazing kind of quite profound. I mean in some level superficial. Like everything online, it's likes and comments and, and repost or whatever. But actually there's a lot that's much deeper there about us now finding out about other people's lives and entering into conversations. And so very gently the music's become a different kind of window on the world that has involved some parenting. And again with independence. Ben Marsh [00:16:17]: Like these guys didn't have social media accounts of their own as early as lots of their friends as they might have had. But they've had a serious education in what that online world is like, some of which is still is they have direct access to and plenty of which is like monitored by us or has been as parents until they've hit like a teenage years. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:35]: Now talk to me about that creative process because you are doing a lot of parodies in your, you know, you're taking well known music but putting your own spin on it. So talk to me about the process of selecting, adapting and especially as you're creating these parodies that resonate with current events. Tess Marsh [00:16:55]: Yeah, so normally we just pick like a song that we really like. Like I'm pretty sure we did a recent Bee Gees one that we put on like a summer playlist. Because normally we make like a summer playlist. Like, everyone puts in five songs. Pretty sure it was on last year's one. So we just kind of pick a song that we often listen to or a song that kind of fits with the theme. And then dad will go in a bath or go into his office and write lyrics to it for like an hour or so. And then a couple of times, maybe like after dinner, we'll all get together and he'll give out parts and harmonies. Tess Marsh [00:17:27]: Sometimes it's a lot quicker. Sometimes we just film it in an hour, like a couple of the Suella Berberman ones. But, like, some of them take a lot longer because they're harder songs. Then we sometimes incorporate instruments and sometimes we just find a karaoke track and sing to them. But normally, like, the parody ones are done quite quickly. Normally, like a couple days. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:44]: And I guess. Talk to me about balance because, you know, balancing everything is not easy, not only as parents, but as kids too. I mean, you've got your lives both inside the family, outside of the family. So how do you balance between being parents, being kids, being performers, and especially as you're working to continue to create these pieces that you're putting out into the world? Ella Marsh [00:18:11]: I think we see it as kind of. Well, I think for me and maybe Tess, I see it as kind of two different sections of my life. So I have kind of the music element, which, you know, we obviously enjoy doing because we enjoy playing music. But a lot of that is we. We want to do this because we want to make sure the message is being sent out to people in the world. And then I kind of have family and friends time. So, like this summer I've got my big GCSE exams and then I've got an. A long summer to enjoy. Ella Marsh [00:18:38]: And we've kind of had a calendar. So for times of when we're doing marsh family gigs and things that's booked in. But there's also time for me to kind of go off and do things with my friends to make sure that I do kind of get an equal amount of both in the holiday. Ben Marsh [00:18:52]: Yeah, I think it's really important that the kids have a. Have a huge say in both in the. In the material. Right. So we've always had a policy where if anyone's uncomfortable with the. The content of a song or the direction or the. The song that's being parody is like a free veto. And yes, you can have a discussion about it and explain it the topic or whatever, but if they really don't want to do it, we're not going to do it. Ben Marsh [00:19:14]: And so it's important that they know that. And then occasionally we have a bigger kind of family conversation about where we're at. And if people are comfortable, you know, some. Some of them might want to go on to do things connected to music and a career and. And others might not. And Tess has been very, very clear that she's always wanted to be a vet. Veterinary surgeon, is it in the States, or a veterinary practitioner. And that hasn't disappeared, even though she's, like, learned the ukulele and is playing the violin really well and doing loads of singing. Ben Marsh [00:19:42]: So, yeah, you're right. It's a juggling act and it's about balance. I mean, one of the things that we did decide to do is not try and not. There's obviously lots of other things you can do in the. In this. In the. The space, the engagement space, like podcasting. And we kind of decided we'll do the songs and the songs are going to be enough, and you can choose to increase the number or decrease the number, but, you know, at the moment, we're not doing other. Ben Marsh [00:20:03]: Other things that you could do as well. So the kind of the four walls of our. Actually, only in the last six months, I think that we've really started doing gigs and concerts outside the house because the kids are old enough and the confidence is there, and it's. It's about pushing yourself as well. It's about saying, okay, what does it mean? What does it mean if you've gone viral and lots of people around the world like, something that's fine, you know, a cat being sick on. On YouTube goes viral or whatever. Like what. What's the deeper meaning here? Where are you trying to get to? And so there are other skills that they get playing live, which has been really tense and it's weird, actually. Ben Marsh [00:20:32]: The kids have taken to it like duck to water. For Danielle and I, it's. It's quite different. And we. You're suddenly responsible for a live performance. I think we feel much more stress outside the house than these. These guys do because it's a bit more. They're a bit more naturalized. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:45]: You know, a lot of your songs do touch on social and political themes. So what motivates you to incorporate these topics into your music and how do you decide which issues to address? Ella Marsh [00:20:58]: I think it often comes from us watching the news and seeing things that kind of really resonate with us and issues that we feel very strongly about and we kind of make the decision that we feel doing a song is enough to want to kind of put our message out and kind of want to influence people, to kind of see things from a different perspective of how we feel and the issues that we believe deserve to be talked about. Ben Marsh [00:21:23]: And I think in some strange way, my training, my background and my job at the moment as an academic historian, which is very much about trying to find balance and objectivity, to look from different perspectives, to put yourself in someone else's shoes, I think. But where the, what the music allows us to is kind of add humor, add performance, add fun, like have fun with some of those themes. So yeah, we've got some things right and I think some things wrong. It attracts, it attracts very different viewpoints because if you're anywhere in politics at the moment is very partisan and it's sort of black and white. And I think actually so fundamentally that's one of the things that keeps us going and keeps us engaging because we don't think that's healthy, that sort of polarization. And it's important whichever country you're in and whichever side of that polarity you're on, if we don't find a point where we can have conversations and kind of share ideas, we're in big trouble. Right. And, and I think that's self evident from, from lots of things that have been going on in the world lately. Ben Marsh [00:22:18]: How do we heal that? How do we, how do we come together? Well, that's where music and humor. What I love the messages that come from people that probably think differently than I do politically, but who are then able to say, I found, I disagree with the message, but I found this funny, or the girl sang really well. Well. And I really love that people, you know, there's a space there and I often come back and we have some really interesting emails that I would never have had with other people. So it's not about justifying your position or saying, I consume this news and you consume that news. It's kind of saying, you know what, I respect you for reaching out to me and making that comment. And I'm going to, I'm going to go look at the website that you recommended. I probably won't end up agreeing with you. Ben Marsh [00:22:56]: It's just that space for conversation I think is really, really important. And hopefully the odd parody, humor, sort of political stuff is an interesting way of, kind of, of engaging that. But we also do our own projects as well and our own song. So there's a kind of, it's not relentlessly topical, because I think that would be quite grinding to end up in that mode. And actually, every now and then we sort of pause and say we've got some studio time in the next couple of weeks, that we're really excited about working on some sort of acoustic songs of our own as the kids are writing and singing. So, yeah, as you said before, it's. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:28]: About balance and girls, I guess, for you, I mean, you have that life outside of this. You have your friends, you've got school, you've got other things. How do you balance that public Persona that people may know about around you or maybe not, and the comments that you see out there from the people that like it, and we'll say the trolls that don't like it. And especially as you're dealing with these sensitive topics, I think for me, I'm. Ella Marsh [00:23:56]: Personally quite quiet about it. Not because I'm embarrassed, just because I'm not the kind of person to kind of want to go out and announce what we do and how it's being received. But lots of my friends will kind of say to me, oh, I saw your video. And I'm like, oh. And I'm a bit shy about it. But, dad, you kind of filter a lot of the YouTube comments and things, which means that kind of some of the nastier ones we don't see, which means that we don't kind of have the impact that some other people might if they were able to see them, which makes it a lot easier to kind of take things as they come. Tess Marsh [00:24:28]: Yeah, but he also does, like, if there's, like, a really nice comment maybe complimenting our singing, he will always show us the, like, nice one so we can feel good about what we've done, that maybe that video or that day. Ben Marsh [00:24:40]: And, you know, and sometimes we. We do deliberately look at the problematic comments because that's part of the world and that's what these guys are going to have to deal with. And I'm mortified for them. And it's horrendous. And I'm so glad that there aren't images of me, you know, back in the day and I didn't have to engage with that. But the scale of what's in front of young people at the moment and the pace of technological change, the pace of social and cultural change, it's a tsunami coming at them all the time. And so it feels wrong to hide all the negativity and just kind of be like, oh, look at, I don't know, Instagram, or just look, just find positive places Obviously there's a space to find relaxation and you've got like ASMR kind of videos to, to sort of cuddle you and get you to sleep and, and so on and a space for humor. But like you need to read some of that stuff as well. Ben Marsh [00:25:28]: It's part of what they're going to deal with and if they. We did a song not, not long ago about, you know, a parody of one of the famous Oklahoma Female songs. Men can't say no we called it. Obviously the original was the girl can't say no. Men can say no. Sorry, Men can say no. So we were playing with that song but. But absolutely about the kind of thing that's in the, in the public domain at the moment. Ben Marsh [00:25:51]: And yeah, it does come our way online because eventually those trolls are there. We've been re shared by Andrew Tate for instance, which, which then brought a whole load of attention. But these guys need to know who that is and what that world is and why it's important to kind of set different boundaries and that it's okay to carefully and gently push back. I think in some of those areas. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:11]: Now I know you said you have some, some time in the studio coming up that you're excited about. So looking ahead, what are your goals for your music and what does the future look like? Ella Marsh [00:26:20]: I think obviously we want to keep going with the parody stuff because we do kind of enjoy giving those messages out to people. But I think slowly we're kind of shifting to doing more kind of live gigs. So in the summer we've got a couple of gigs lined up at some festivals and things to kind of develop that kind of performance area for us and keep doing kind of our own music as well as Alfie and Thomas kind of start writing songs as well to kind of put our own element on what we do. Ben Marsh [00:26:46]: We've always been entirely self managed and home created. And one of the scary steps might be, but perhaps a logical progression might be to reach out and build. Build a larger team than just guys we work at in the studio. So I think when we're feeling ready that might be the next step. But we need to check. Everybody wants to kind of move ahead there. One of the reasons we have kept self managed is because the kids always come first. Right? That's the sort of philosophy and we don't want to make an agreement with someone and then suddenly they don't want to do it and then we let someone down. Ben Marsh [00:27:15]: So it's been safer in some ways to, to be in the hermit crab shell. But I think increasingly we're going to leave that shell behind and maybe find some rock pools that we know are favorable or friendly or not too scary. And we're really enjoying it and loving it. And so, you know, but we're also very, very conscious, myself and my wife in particular, that we've got four teenagers and they need to. They need to fly the nest, right, and they need to go off and do their own thing. And so I guess our hope is that there'll be some sort of hybrid mode where there'll still be music that they're always welcome to. To come back and share anything that they're able to. We'll be delighted to play with them. Ben Marsh [00:27:48]: And otherwise we can just revert to being, you know, some sort of wizened wisdom singer, songwriter, doing painful parodies by ourselves. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:58]: So for other families interested in pursuing music together, what advice would you give them? Ben Marsh [00:28:03]: I said, don't worry about the noise. It's. Look at the smile, look at the rhythm, look at the enjoyment. Like, you can play anything. We started with recorders and ocarinas and terrible plastic guitars that only had two strings or electric things that you press the button. But actually we did try to. To have it as organic stuff. Drums that they could play or maracas or egg shakers or spoons, but something that they're doing in the moment, not a kind of an online game or singing monstersy thing like to. Ben Marsh [00:28:33]: To do something physical, to play with cups and do raps and just kind of grow it from there. And I think you have to have a high tolerance threshold for noise. Maybe you have to have friendly neighbors or whatever. But I think if we'd stop because someone didn't sound great, we would not be singing together. Like, it's amazing to watch what the. This lot of kind of their development in particular is. They've grown in. In confidence. Ben Marsh [00:28:55]: And I think it would be foolish to imagine that would have happened had. Had it not been for just laughing when something goes wrong and kind of getting up and going again. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:03]: Now I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to ask as we finish up today. Are you ready? Ben Marsh [00:29:11]: Okay. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:11]: Okay, girls, what's one word that describes your relationship with your dad? Tess Marsh [00:29:15]: Dynamic. Ben Marsh [00:29:16]: Dynamic. Tess Marsh [00:29:18]: Yeah. Ben Marsh [00:29:18]: Okay, I'll take that. Ella Marsh [00:29:19]: I'd say caring. Yeah. Nurturing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:23]: And Ben, one word that describes your relationship with your daughters. Ben Marsh [00:29:26]: Endeavor. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]: Ben, what's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Ben Marsh [00:29:33]: I think it would be from my dad. Or is that weird to say I think it's get back on the horse. I think it's, you know, it's. It's one of those old adages, but it's an old adage for a reason, which is don't give up. There'll be things that make you feel really upset. There'll be things that make you feel you're failing, you're ashamed of. You should have done better. Playing on your mind and stressing about the finances, the. Ben Marsh [00:29:56]: The physicality, the logistics, all that stuff. But, like, just try again. I think that's probably his advice, you know, forgive and get on with it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:04]: And girls, what's the best piece of advice your dad has given you? Ella Marsh [00:30:08]: I think it's quite. It's an often used one, but it works. So if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. This is the one that I'd probably use. Tess Marsh [00:30:16]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:17]: What's one activity you and your dad love doing together, Girls? Ella Marsh [00:30:23]: I think singing. I think it's what we do and it's what we enjoy doing. So. Tess Marsh [00:30:28]: Yeah, I also enjoy playing Xbox. We play quite a lot of Sims. We've made a Sim save recently. It's quite panickety with the building, the houses and the character. But it's. Yeah, it's really fun. Ben Marsh [00:30:39]: This is this Sims game, so where it's like a fake world where you create the characters in the environment and so on. And it's very illuminating playing that with one of your daughters because you realize what completely different radars you have for what's going on. Like, I was really interested in the garden and if there was going to be like a little bench or something you could sit on. And I was interested in the ceiling and Tess was very interested in the furniture and the sort of activities and the relationships that were going on. So it was. It's a very safe space to kind of play this game. I think we do. We do play a lot of games. Ben Marsh [00:31:10]: That'd be one thing I'd say that we love doing. We should never. We always forget when we finally get a game out, a board game or a card game or whatever, how much fun it is. And it's really easy just to go back to phones or the TV or whatever's going on and just to kind of. This is why the road trip was really nice, because you and I played dirty pigs and. Yeah, all sorts of games because we had nothing else to do. And those. Those moments especially, it always annoys you after. Ben Marsh [00:31:35]: It's like, why didn't I do this last week? Why didn't we do this together? So, yeah, on the back of this podcast, we're going to play a game this weekend. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:41]: Ben, if you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Ben Marsh [00:31:46]: Value yourself. It would be trust the radar that we've tried to give you and that you have intuitively yourselves and be guided by that. Because I think, you know, when you're an adult and sometimes when you're not and you've lost people in your life and it makes you wonder about the deeper questions. I had a friend that I lost when he was quite young, when he was 29, sadly to sort of cancer. And I always imagined him wherever I lived. I would pick, I didn't quite do the Lion King stars thing, but I would pick a mountain or if we moved house, I pick a tree. And that would be where I would think of what he would say and I would. I hope if we've given you good advice as we've raised you that like, there's a space for you to value yourself and say, what might that suggestion be? And make sure that you try and make good decisions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:32]: And Ben, what's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Ben Marsh [00:32:36]: I mean, it's been transformative. For me, it's like changed. It became the most important thing I was in that instance. And then again and again if you're lucky enough to have kids or be responsible as a carer. So I think it's pretty simple. But I feel like it's an all consuming thing and I'm a bit scared about what's going to happen when they all go. I'm at the age where some of our friends, that's kind of what happening to you. And this is where suddenly I think I'm going to be the one pestering people on the WhatsApp chat with emojis and things asking for attention. Ben Marsh [00:33:06]: But that's okay. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:07]: And a final question for all three of you. What advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Ella Marsh [00:33:16]: I'd say keep asking and keep listening because ultimately that is the most important thing. So long as you're honest and open, that is the perfect way for a relationship to bloom and for you to really understand each other in that bond. Tess Marsh [00:33:30]: I'd say probably try and always push yourself to like your best because if you don't, you'll always regret it afterwards. But if you always put like, don't push yourself too far but like, always push yourself to the best of your ability. Ben Marsh [00:33:43]: I think I come back to try and see any moment, especially a stressful moment, through their eyes. That's when I feel like I've done good dadding, good parenting. That's because I've, I've managed that. And it can be really, really small things and it can be seen quite small in your day and in their day. But if you can grab that moment and just kind of pivot 180 degrees and say, see. Okay, it was like Tess has created a whole new language because she's very into duolingo and languages. So she's created a whole made up language called Kimber. I got it right and nobody was interested in this. Ben Marsh [00:34:14]: And I noticed she was teaching an AI chat bot her language and I felt absolutely terrible, like, oh, my. Oh, my goodness, she's teaching each other. So I said, go on then, teach me. And so last night, we missed it last night because there was other stuff going on and I remembered that we'd missed me learning a letter and I thought, what does that look like through her eyes? That says, dad's too busy for me and. Or dad wants to play FIFA with the boys, not learn my language. And so looking through her eyes, I need to learn my letter tonight. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:42]: So if people want to find out more about all that you're doing, where should they go? Ben Marsh [00:34:47]: Yeah, we'd love for people to have a listen to join us on our mad, weird family musical journey. They're more than welcome. So the easiest place to go is marshfamilysongs.com which is our website and it's got links to any platform that you like. Probably have some presence there. So, yeah, please do check us out. You can join us if you like what you hear and you want to support us on Patreon as well, which would be fantastic, but we just love having conversations with people all over the world. It's been a really exciting part of what's happened to us in the last three or four years. So check us out and listen to the parody stuff or the exciting original things like the song Ella's Working up that we were singing together the other day. Ella Marsh [00:35:23]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:24]: Well, I will put links in the notes today, but Ben, Ella, Tess, thank you so much for being here. I wish you all the best in this journey that you're on together and I truly appreciate you being here and sharing your journey with all of us. Ben Marsh [00:35:39]: Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah. And. And again, thank you for doing what you're doing. I sort of wish there'd been a community that I could have bounced off to and thought about some of these ideas. So it's a fantastic resource for everyone. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:50]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:36:21]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them present Bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to. Musical Outro Performer [00:37:08]: Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Being a present and intentional dad to a daughter is no easy feat. On a recent episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Melissa Davidson, certified professional coach and founder of Perceptive Parents, to talk about what it really takes to foster a deep, lasting connection with your daughter. Melissa brings not only her professional expertise, but her very personal story as a mother—one filled with powerful moments, everyday challenges, and honest reflection. Why Values Matter One of the core messages from Melissa's conversation is that the foundation of a strong bond starts with understanding and clarifying your own values. Parents—especially dads—often operate on inherited or subconscious beliefs, but Melissa encourages you to pause and ask: "What truly matters to me, and how do I want to show up for my child?" By getting clear on your values, you create a guiding compass that leads to authentic interactions and intentional parenting. Melissa even offers a practical values-based reflection exercise (available on her website), perfect for parents wanting to dig deeper. Connection Over Perfection Melissa reminds us that connection is not about being flawless; it's about being present. She openly shares her own parenting missteps, like grappling with her daughter's strong will or misreading her emotional needs—especially when hunger is at play! Her takeaway? Kids do well when they can, and sometimes our job is simply to offer support rather than demand perfection, from them or ourselves. The Power of Emotional Attunement Throughout the episode, Melissa stresses the importance of meeting your daughter where she is emotionally. Whether it's putting down your phone to truly listen, holding space for big feelings, or modeling empathy, these moments build trust and teach your daughter that she is valued and heard. Dads, Melissa says, have a unique opportunity to model a new kind of masculinity—one grounded in vulnerability, presence, and authentic connection. A Legacy of Presence If you're looking for practical, heartfelt guidance on being a more engaged and "askable" parent—one your daughter can truly open up to—this episode is a must-listen. Tune in for relatable stories, actionable insights, and inspiration to help you become the dad your daughter needs. Ready to build a stronger bond? Catch the full conversation at Dad and Daughter Connection! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I'm so glad that you're back again this week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: Every week, we have an opportunity to be able to build those strong relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. And that's why every week I come back. And I know that that's why you come back, to be able to learn more, to be able to dig a little bit deeper and to be able to explore things that you can do, to be able to build those strong relationships. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that can give you some tools for your toolbox that will allow you to. Melissa Davidson [00:01:31]: Think about things maybe a little bit. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:32]: Differently, but also be able to consider. Melissa Davidson [00:01:36]: Things, things that you might never have. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:38]: Thought of, things that you might have tried, but maybe they didn't work the. Melissa Davidson [00:01:41]: First time, or maybe things that you're already doing and that's okay as well. But this week, we got another great guest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]: Today's guest is Melissa Davidson, who is. Melissa Davidson [00:01:49]: A licensed professional counselor, educator, and founder of Perceptive Parents. Melissa has over 25 years of experience supporting families, and she helps parents deepen connection with their children by getting clear on their values, improving emotional attunement, and parenting with purpose, not just reaction. Her work blends neuroscience, psychology, and compassion to empower moms and dads alike to raise confident, emotionally secure kids. And today, we're going to be delving a little bit deeper into her own experience at being a mother to a daughter. But also we're going to be exploring how you can strengthen the connection that you have with your daughters through the values that you have as well. I'm really excited to have her here today. Melissa, thanks so much for being here. Melissa Davidson [00:02:41]: Thank you so much. That might be the most generous introduction I have ever had. I am very flattered. I do need to Give you one correction, which is I'm actually not a licensed clinical counselor. I am a certified professional coach. So you gave me a step up qualification that I wish I had, but I'm not there. But thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:03]: I appreciate it. And hey, you know what? Always aim higher so that we. Melissa Davidson [00:03:08]: It's out there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:09]: We gave you a bump today. Melissa Davidson [00:03:11]: Thank you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:12]: So I always start with some questions about you as a parent and I know that you have a seven year old daughter and I'd love to get to know your relationship with her a little bit more. What is one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughter and what made it so special? Melissa Davidson [00:03:28]: Okay, this is super personal, but our daughter was carried by a surrogate for a long, long story that we don't have time to go into today. Our daughter was carried by a surrogate and so I actually got to deliver her and I love telling her the story of that moment when she went from being cared for by this surrogate and grown for the 10 months and then being the first person to actually put hands on her, I literally caught her, which is so amazing. And I feel like I always hesitate to say out loud to my son and to my husband, this was the single most thrilling moment of my life. I don't know that it was the most joyful, but it was the most thrilling moment of my life. And to be able to tell that story to my daughter is just. It's very powerful. My kids joke with me because of how often I tear up and I always tell them, well, I have so much love in my heart. I've got so much joy in my heart right now. Melissa Davidson [00:04:24]: It's coming out my eyes. So. So my daughter knows that that story really gets me choked up, but I just think it's not an experience that every parent gets to have. It is certainly experience that many parents get to have. It's not one that I expected to have and it is incredibly, incredibly powerful to me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:42]: Now, I know your daughter's still young, but it's not always roses when it comes to raising kids. There's always going to be ups and downs and challenges along the way. What are some intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter even when it might be challeng again? Melissa Davidson [00:04:58]: You're so generous to share that sometimes it's challenging. My daughter is extremely strong willed and as I've coached parents, you know, for years, for so many years, we've talked about how we want to raise daughters who are strong, who are resilient, who won't be rolled over by somebody else. So I try to remind myself that that strong will is an excellent characteristic and one that if I can manage through it in childhood, I really do want to foster. We lock horns quite a and I do need to remind myself that this is an important quality that she is developing. And so I try to lean into those big feelings and remind myself that she's seven and she's being a seven year old and that's okay. And she doesn't have some inner dialogue going on that says I'm going to give my mom such a hard time right now. I'm going to see how hard I can push her. She's being her and we can talk a little bit more as we get into our conversation about expectations that we have of our children. Melissa Davidson [00:06:00]: I find it it very funny that I coach people in this area and I think the things I focus on in coaching other people are the struggles that I have in real life. So I've got lots of stories about my strong willed daughter and I just have such great admiration for her and for who she's blossoming into now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:19]: None of us are flawless. We all make mistakes along the way. What's one mistake that you've made with your daughter and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with her? Melissa Davidson [00:06:32]: So one mistake that I make on a regular basis is underestimating the power of her hunger and how that shows up in her behavior. So we have a constant struggle at the end of the day she's a grazer, so she typically needs a second dinner. And a mistake that I make regularly is assuming at 8:30 at night that she is reasonable and in a position to follow directions. And the truth is she's not. And so when I remember to show up to those interactions knowing that she cannot do as well as she probably would like to because she's hungry and I take out of my mind again, she's giving me a hard time and it's the end of the day I have a whole script that goes on in my head that that talks about why is this child making it so difficult when I should be able to be getting ready for bed myself. I want to take mom hat off and I want to move into me winding down at the end of the day. And I regularly have to remind myself she can't do well right now, she's hungry. A basic need is not being met. Melissa Davidson [00:07:35]: Her big feelings are trying to communicate that to me and I can either show up with my own big feelings and ratchet up the situation. Or I can remind myself, this is my child doing the best she can and she needs support right now. So how about I show up in a way that's supportive and loving and not ratcheting up the energy level, but really holding space for her big feelings and co regulating to help her kind of come back down and to actually take the food that's being offered, which is its own struggle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:03]: Sometimes what you just said there really goes into the importance of being able to show your child that they are valued and heard in what they need. What are additional ways in which you intentionally work to make sure that your daughter knows and feels that she is valued and heard? Melissa Davidson [00:08:22]: There's a really simple one that I know all of us struggle with and that is putting down my device or taking myself off a screen and giving her 100% of my attention when she's asking for it. When she asks me a question and she's telling me a story, I work very hard to actively listen because her words and her stories are important. And I want to be sure that I am fully tuned in to her when we have those opportunities. I remind myself that with a seven year old, my time for this child wanting to fully involve me in everything she does is fleeting. And I feel like if we set the foundation now that her thoughts and her feelings are important, that's going to carry over into teen times, into early adulthood, into the relationship. I hope that we have for decades to come. So it's that very focused attention to show her that she's important, she's not. A side note to something else I'm doing. Melissa Davidson [00:09:18]: She is my focus and my priority. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:20]: Now I mentioned the fact that we were gonna talk today about strengthening connections through values. And I know you often talk about values as a compass for parent, for dads specifically, how can getting clear on their values shift the way they connect with their daughters? Melissa Davidson [00:09:39]: So it's about intention, it's about knowing how you want to show up. Dads want this connection with their daughters, and connection can at times be elusive. And I believe that connection can be elusive sometimes because we're feeling triggered and we need to get in alignment with our values so we can show up in an authentic way. So I think a really good step for dads is to be able to examine what's important to me and how do I want to show up and how do I show my child, Like I was just saying with my daughter, how do I show my child how important they are? To me and how important this connection is. I think that caregiving can be very hard when we feel disconnected. And I think disconnection happens when we're triggered. And so I think there's this importance to knowing what our values are. I have a really great exercise that I take parents through. Melissa Davidson [00:10:33]: And I think any dad could benefit from going through this values exercise so that you really know what's important. And how do my values show up when I'm in connection or in an interaction with my child? Because when you see that, it allows you to make a more intentional. It just allows you to show up more authentically. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:54]: Talk to me about that value exercise. Is it something that you could walk us through today? Melissa Davidson [00:11:00]: I would love to walk you through it. I will put in a plug if you head to my website, which is Perceptive parents dot com. It is the top banner on the website. There's a link to this activity. Basically, the way it works is I have 20 values. They're really just terms, but things that I have identified. It is not an exhaustive list of values, but I've got 20 of them. And the idea is to go through and to prioritize what's most important to what's least important. Melissa Davidson [00:11:31]: To take something out that doesn't fit, to put something else in that's not there. The challenge that I've seen for people, and I'm smiling because I feel like this is such an important part of the exercise, is I do not have a definition for any of these terms. So, for example, respect is very important to me. And if you and I sat down and had a conversation and you also said respect is at the top of my list, your definition of respect might be very different than my definition of respect. So part of this exercise is really coming clear with, I value respect, and that means and being able to fill in that blank. I really believe that when everything is a priority, nothing's a priority. So when you say I live by my values, that's beautiful, and that's wonderful. But really understanding what that means, I believe this exercise really gives people an opportunity to dive into what that means. Melissa Davidson [00:12:24]: Family is my top priority. Family. I value family above everything else. So what does that look like in your life? Because that might look very different between yours and mine. So the idea is review those values. Arrange them. I like to talk about sorting from most important to least important. But I love when I see people grouping concepts together. Melissa Davidson [00:12:45]: There's no right way to sort them. There's your way to sort them and then being able to have a conversation afterwards. I I love the idea that this can be a do it yourself activity. I also find that this is very valuable to do with a coach, with a partner, even to sit down with a friend, find a fellow dad and walk through this together and compare notes. Because simply the idea of reflecting on what it means and staying open to hearing somebody else's priorities is very interesting. I'd love to share an example of a situation I just encountered with a dad who I coach. I have health and safety as one of the values. I had never before considered mental and emotional safety, and it was so enlightening to me. Melissa Davidson [00:13:32]: To hear him talk about safety is very important to me. I automatically go to let's. I mean, this is a silly one. Let's keep our fingers out of sockets because that's not safe. Let's make sure that we are taking care of our bodies. But I hadn't previously thought about mental and emotional safety. So the beauty of engaging in this with another person is we've got so much to learn from one another. And I've also found that just because a specific term or value is placed at the top of the heap, that doesn't mean that our values are different. Melissa Davidson [00:14:07]: That might mean that we are quite aligned, but the language that we use around our values might be different. So it's a review, it's an activity, and then it's sort of a debrief. And this can also be done. I typically do this in two parent families with both parents either working through together or going side by side and then comparing results. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:28]: Sounds like a powerful tool and we'll definitely put a link today in the notes for you to be able to access that and to work through that for yourself. One other thing that you've said in things that I've read is that many parents are operating from inherited or unconscious beliefs. What are some of the common default values we'll say that you see dads carrying and how might they be getting in the way of genuine connection? Melissa Davidson [00:14:55]: I think there is a lot of importance in that intentionality, in how you choose to show up. So as a dad, do you feel pressure to show up in a way that society might be expecting around? Masculinity equals. Fill in the blank. Masculinity equals I must be respected at all times. Masculinity equals I must be the enforcer on different consequences. I think clearly there is so much great work that has gone on in redefining masculinity. I love the conversations I've had with, for example, Ed Frauenheim. I think he's such a great voice in this space. Melissa Davidson [00:15:34]: When you think about who would you like to be in this relationship with your daughter, it doesn't have to be a struggle around what is a traditional masculine role. It is who is the parent you would authentically like to show up as. So I think there is a process by which somebody might need to shed the way they were raised and go ahead and boldly step into a different definition of fatherhood and one that will foster a different type of connection going forward. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:03]: One of the things that you really are talking about there is that emotional attunement that we have with our kids. And I know you talk about emotional attunement. What advice would you give to dads who struggle to interpret their daughter's emotional needs or they feel unsure about how to respond with empathy? Melissa Davidson [00:16:24]: That's a great question. So responding with empathy, I really believe, begins with being able to take your own feelings and process them and treat yourself with grace and kindness and compassion. So I believe it really starts from within. And again, I think some of this can be a challenge when we're butting up against traditional stereotypes of embracing emotion, expressing emotion when you're comfortable modeling an expression of emotion, and that all people experience a range of emotions, and this is okay. I do think there's something really important. I've certainly noticed it more with my daughter than I have with my son. I happen to have. My oldest is a boy, and my youngest is a girl, so my starter child is a boy. Melissa Davidson [00:17:12]: And I've gotten to move into. We all know if we've got two children, it's like you cut your teeth on that first child, child, and then you get to. You get to approach the second child differently. They've got different needs. I react very strongly when my daughter is expressing strong emotions. I believe as parents, we have this desire to fix a strong emotion, to fix hurt feelings. And I believe there's power in being able to sit in the muck with your child when they're having hurt feelings, to not rush them through it, to empathize with whatever situation is going on, and to show that you're there, to show that you're supportive and that having the answer, having the fix, is not what is necessary. In some of those challenging moments, if. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:55]: A dad is listening and he realizes that he's never really articulated those core values, where should he begin? And how might he invite his daughter into that discovery process? Melissa Davidson [00:18:06]: So I believe a dad should begin by examining his own values and thinking about where those come from, you know, when I talk about those being baked in. We were all raised in some environment where values were expressed and values have have been internalized and they show up in our life. And I believe you can have conversations where you're able to say, our family is so important to me. I work very hard to show up when it's time to be available to family. This relationship and the love that you and I have for each other is so important to me that I show up in a special way to be available just to you in this time that we have together so you can express it. I also think walking the talk is so important. Know what's important to you. Show up in a way that those values are authentic and it's going to kind of transmute. Melissa Davidson [00:19:00]: Your child's going to see what your values are, whether you articulate them specifically or not. I have worked with clients before where I would say kids at around. Depending upon the emotional awareness and maturity, kids can participate in this activity too. A dad can sit down with a daughter. Again, I would say maybe around age 12. That's not a hard and fast rule, but in my experience with child development, I think you need to have achieved a certain level of understanding and life experience to be able to be attuned with values. Kids may never have thought about how. How to articulate it before, but it's really cool to watch a parent sit down with a child and actually sort through and talk about what do some of these things mean in our family. Melissa Davidson [00:19:45]: To me, means X, Y or Z. I can picture this father that I was referring to before sitting down at a time later in life and being able to say, safety is so important. Our mental and emotional safety is so important in this family. And this is how you may have noticed before, this is how I show up in certain situations. To be sure that you feel emotionally safe, to be sure that it's safe for you to express yourself so you can express explicitly, engage in conversation, and you can be very aware of what you are modeling you had brought up earlier. None of us are perfect. There's no expectation that any of us are going to show up to every single interaction with our children in a way that we walk away and say, that rocked. I really knocked that one out of the park. Melissa Davidson [00:20:30]: That's not the goal. I do think there's space for us being able to say, I really didn't handle that one very well. And I didn't handle it well because. So I think another piece to this is that active reflection that A dad can have with his daughter. If something didn't go right, to be able to say, wow, I wish I had handled that differently. I'm sorry. And I wish I had handled it differently in the future. My plan is to show up in this different way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:55]: Now, looking ahead, what type, what kind of legacy do you believe a value based, emotionally connected father leaves for his daughter? And how might that ripple out into future generations? Melissa Davidson [00:21:08]: I believe that our daughter will see what's modeled by their fathers and be able to carry that into who they're looking for in a partner. Again, this is assuming that they are looking for a male partner, but also looking for other men around them to be able to show up authentically and to be able to live by values. So I think when a father models and expresses emotions, lives authentically through these values, he's showing this is real. This is the way people interact. These are expectations you can have of others. Look for this in other people. Surround yourself with people who are also living by their values, who are able to articulate who are showing up authentically. Do I think this is a perfect system? I think it's a great system. Melissa Davidson [00:21:59]: I obviously, as the developer of it, I think it's very powerful. I hope the legacy is more people are able to show up authentically and be able to better articulate their values. So I think living intentionally, parenting, intentionally seeking connection intentionally and authentically. I don't see how that doesn't leave a legacy. I can't imagine where that doesn't leave a legacy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:23]: Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection 6 where I usually ask dads to delve a little bit deeper into their own relationship with their kids. But I'm going to ask you today as well, what's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Melissa Davidson [00:22:38]: Playful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:39]: Now, I know you work with a lot of dads and you've probably heard some different advice or things that people have shared. What's the best piece of dad advice either you receive or that you've heard people provide? Melissa Davidson [00:22:51]: I really like this concept that kids do well when they can. So the advice for a dad is know what might be preventing your child from showing up to do well. Kids do well when they can. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:06]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Melissa Davidson [00:23:09]: Oh, we love cuddling and reading together. She's still a cuddler. It's beautiful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:14]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Melissa Davidson [00:23:19]: Don't settle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:20]: What's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a parent. Melissa Davidson [00:23:25]: Done is better than perfect. Perfection is not what my children are going to remember. Presence is what my children are going to remember. And I would like them to remember me and think of me as a present parent and not a demanding, exacting parent. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]: What advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Melissa Davidson [00:23:47]: I really appreciate this concept about being an askable parent. So I think there are probably some pretty touchy areas that may feel uncomfortable for dads and daughters. I think taking the time to become comfortable with issues that might be going on for a girl and her developing body, I think that's very important not only to have an understanding of what the way the way hormones might impact a girl, the way her body changing might impact the way she sees herself. And getting comfortable in your own private space with how do you talk about those things and being prepared. I think showing up when a daughter asks a dad a difficult question that might feel. Feel squirmy and uncomfortable. Two things. One is you can say, I'd love to answer that question. Melissa Davidson [00:24:34]: Let's put a pin in that one. Let's come back to it. I need to think about that a little bit. But make yourself askable so that those questions keep coming. There's no shame in any question that can be asked. And I believe being an askable parent is something that will carry through an equality relationship that goes the distance. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:52]: Melissa, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today. If people want to find out more about you, about what you're doing, maybe work with you in the future, where should they go? Melissa Davidson [00:25:00]: I would start with Perceptive parents dot com. That is my website. I also have a loose presence on Facebook. I had to kind of step away from some of my Facebook attention, but I do have a space on Facebook which is also perceptive parents. You can find out more about me just looking up Melissa Davidson on LinkedIn and reach out. I have a. I'm really happy to answer emails if somebody actually has a pressing question and is bold enough to reach out with a question. Melissaerceptiveparents.com delighted to engage with anybody over any parenting issue that could come up. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:37]: Well, again, Melissa, thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing all of this and challenging us to really delve deeper into the values that we hold innately and the values that we want our children to be able to connect with and to live and to have as a part of their lives. And I truly wish you. Melissa Davidson [00:25:55]: All the best. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:58]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:26:28]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them present and bring your AK Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to Them. Musical Outro Performer [00:27:16]: Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Hey dads! Welcome to Dad Connections in 5, where we keep it real and practical—just a few minutes to help you build a deeper, stronger relationship with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today, we're talking about something foundational but often overlooked—how to model respect and kindness in everyday life. If you want your daughter to grow into a person who treats others well, stands up for herself, and expects to be treated with dignity—it starts with you. So let's get into it—why respect and kindness matter, and three simple ways to show them every day in ways your daughter will remember and repeat. Why This Matters Kids learn values by watching us live them. Your daughter will learn what it means to be kind not just from what you say, but from what you do. She'll learn how to treat people—from family to strangers—by how you treat the people in your own life. If she sees you hold the door for someone, she notices. If you speak kindly when you're frustrated, she sees the power of self-control. If you show respect to your partner, your friends, your coworkers—you're teaching her what healthy, respectful relationships look like. So here are three ways you can show respect and kindness in ways that stick. 1. Speak to Her (and Others) with the Same Respect You Expect Respect starts at home. That means talking to your daughter with the same tone and patience you'd expect from her. Say please and thank you—even to your child. Apologize when you're wrong. ("I'm sorry I snapped earlier. That wasn't fair to you.") Let her finish her thoughts before jumping in. How you speak to her becomes her inner voice. Make sure it's one that affirms her worth and encourages empathy. And remember—she's also watching how you treat the waitress, the cashier, the neighbor, and yes, even the slow driver in front of you. 2. Show Kindness Through Small Daily Actions Kindness isn't just grand gestures—it's a daily habit. Show her that: Kindness is leaving the last cookie for someone else. Kindness is texting a friend to check in. Kindness is smiling at a stranger or offering help without being asked. Involve her in small acts of kindness: Bring donuts to a neighbor. Hold the door for someone together. Write thank-you notes as a team. When you make kindness visible, she learns that it's not just something we talk about—it's something we do. 3. Handle Conflict with Grace and Respect Life is full of moments when frustration rises—bad drivers, rude emails, disagreements at home. These are the teachable moments. Instead of losing your cool: Take a breath. Speak calmly. Say, "Let's figure this out together," instead of, "Why can't you ever get this right?" Conflict doesn't have to mean disrespect. In fact, how you handle tough moments teaches her more than how you act when things are easy. Quick Takeaways: Start Today! Here's your challenge: Today, pick one simple act of kindness or respect—and do it where your daughter can see. Say thank you. Open a door. Compliment someone. Apologize when needed. Then, when the moment's right, talk to her about it. Help her connect the dots: "I held the door because it's important to show respect, even in small ways." These are the lessons that shape her into a kind, grounded, and respectful young woman. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If this episode made you think about the power of your everyday actions, share it with another dad doing his best to lead with kindness. Until next time—keep showing up, keep modeling what matters, and keep raising daughters who lead with love and respect.

If you're a father looking to deepen your relationship with your daughter and embrace all the wonder (and chaos) of parenthood, the latest episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" is a must-listen. This week, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Hasan Merali, a pediatric emergency medicine doctor, researcher, and author, for an insightful conversation that flips the script on how we view toddlers—and offers practical ways dads can cultivate meaningful bonds with their daughters. Beneath the Tantrums: What Toddlers Can Teach Us Toddlerhood is too often painted as a stormy sea of tantrums and "why" questions, but Dr. Merali's experience—as both a physician and a dad—reveals something different: young children are bursting with curiosity, resilience, empathy, and joy. Drawing from his new book, Sleep Well, Take Risks, Squish the Peas: Secrets from the Science of Toddlers for a Happier, More Successful Way of Life, Dr. Merali explores how toddlers' natural enthusiasm and openness hold powerful lessons for adults. He urges parents to recognize that tantrums are fleeting (just a few minutes a day!)—what really fills children's time is laughing, learning, loving, and connecting. By tuning into these moments, dads can nurture strong, joyful relationships with their daughters. Building Bonds Through Presence and Play One standout theme from the episode is the value of intentional time together. Dr. Merali shares how his paternity leave—six months spent at home during the pandemic—allowed him and his daughter to connect without distractions. He also discusses family traditions, like a soothing bedtime routine and regular father-daughter hikes, that help anchor their relationship even during life's busy or challenging seasons. Crucially, Dr. Merali encourages dads to embrace play—rediscover what you loved as a child and share that joy with your daughter, whether it's music, sports, or just being silly together. Kids thrive off connection and fun, and those experiences build trust that lasts. Raising Confident, Curious Daughters The conversation delves into giving children space to struggle, fail, and try again—because confidence is built through doing, not just succeeding. Dr. Merali reminds dads to maintain a sense of curiosity, to model positive self-talk, and to let their daughters take (safe) risks, developing independence one small step at a time. If you want both encouragement and actionable strategies for being the dad your daughter needs, tune into this episode. It's a heartfelt reminder that the best parenting wisdom might come from the littlest voices in our lives. Listen to the full episode at Dad and Daughter Connection and start building an even stronger bond today.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there, it's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work on those connections that we want to have with our daughters. I love being able to talk to you every week and coming back every week to talk about this important relationship that we have with our daughters and the important journey that we all have to be on to be able to build an even stronger relationship, building stronger connections with our daughters. That's why every week I try to bring you different people, people with different experiences, different journeys that can talk to you about their own journey, but also some tools for your own toolbox and help you along the path. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:35]: This week we got another great guest. Dr. Hasan Merali is with us and Dr. Merali is an Associate professor in the Department of pediatric at McMaster University and a pediatric emergency medicine physician at McMaster Children's Hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. He received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School and a Master of Public Health degree from Johns Hopkins. And his research from focuses on child injury prevention in low and middle income countries. He's published more than 25 peer reviewed journal articles. He has a brand new book that we're going to be also talking about today called Sleep well, Take Risks, Squish the Peas, Secrets from the Science of Toddlers for a happier, more successful way of life. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]: I'm really excited to have him here and to welcome him to the show. Hasan, thanks so much for being here today. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:02:29]: Yeah, thanks for having me. Great to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:31]: It is my pleasure. Love having you here. And first and foremost, I want to talk to you a little bit about your own journey as a dad and especially a dad to a daughter. And I guess as you think about the time that you've been able to spend with your daughter thus far, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with Your daughter thus Far. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:02:49]: You know, there are so many that come to mind. We had a very special bonding experience. Kind of unique. Number one, because I live in Canada and I'm very fortunate, I was able to take a paternity leave and I took six months off with her. So I was off when she was six months to one year. And that was also the first year of the pandemic. And so everything was pretty much shut down. My wife and I are both essential workers. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:03:10]: So she was back at work, and Aria and I just had that time alone for six months and we didn't have anywhere to go. And it was just the two of us @ home. So we had a very, very special bonding experience. And I think what really came out of that is the fun that we can have day to day. And one of the things I talk about and write about is how much young children love to laugh. And I think that's just this special moment in time that we had those six months kind of continue daily where she is making me laugh every day. And I'm trying to make her laugh just as much, but she certainly is a funnier person. And I think that's the special moment that continues on each day for us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:46]: Now, I know your daughter's still young and she's still becoming her own person, but as she's getting older, she's probably asking more questions, starting to get into that why phase of things. How do you balance the idea that you want to guide your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into her own person? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:04:05]: I really encourage that why question. And it's just an important part of early childhood development and how little kids can learn at actually a much faster rate than most of us. And so. And I often don't know the answer, and that's okay. And I want her to teach her that. It's an important question to ask, but it's also okay if we don't know the answer. And my job, I think, as a dad, is to instill that in her and maintain that curiosity, but also give her the tools of how we're going to look things up. And so, you know, for example, one of the ways, a really great way is the library. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:04:37]: And so we try to make it every week, but I'll say every two weeks for sure, to the library, where we're getting books on topics that she's interested in or that she just becomes interested as she's walking around and go through that. And so I really want to instill that curiosity, learning how do we get the answer Reading as part of that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:52]: You talked about the fact that you got to spend that quality time with your daughter at an early age during COVID And I guess as you think about either those times or where you are today, what are some intentional ways you've worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during times that might not be the easiest, maybe those challenging times? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:05:14]: Yeah, I think one of the ways that I've done that, you know, I live in a larger city. There's just a large mass of people who live between Toronto and Hamilton, and I'm a part of that. But I didn't grow up in. In a large city. I grew up in a very small town, a lot of wilderness in Northern Ontario. So one of the things that I tried to do more with her is take her out into nature. And we know all the health benefits for young kids as they're developing, but also for adults as well. And so we try to go on hikes, which we can get to about 30 minutes away. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:05:42]: And then at least two, three times a year, just her and I, without mom will go away out into cabins without electricity or running water, and we go canoeing and do a little bit of fishing. We use propane stoves. And that's really nice because there's no technology either. And I think that's, yeah, for me, the best times of the year. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:02]: Now, every one of us has to learn along the way. We're not always going to be perfect. There's going to be mistakes. There's going to be things that we do that we look back on and say, why did I do that? What's a mistake you've made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:06:20]: I think one of the biggest mistakes certainly that I've made and I. And I see this in a lot of parents now that I've gone through the data, is jumping in when they're struggling with something. I mean, there are certain things that she's for right now, so she's just not going to be able to do, and that's fine. But there are a lot of other things where she needs to have that struggle and get to a point where she wants to ask for help or try to learn and figure out new ways to do things. And that point of where you jump in is sometimes far too early as a parent, when you're trying to help them along, when you see them struggling or trying to work something out. And so that is something that I've really had to just watch and Observe her. She knows that I'm there. She knows that I'm there to support her. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:07:04]: But I'm not actually going to do the thing for her until she's given that a good shot or asked specifically for help. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:10]: Now, you just mentioned the fact that you show her that you are there. What's one way that you tangibly show your daughter that she can always count on you? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:07:20]: Yeah. So one of the things, and she's very. She asks about this is about schedule. And so, you know, she's at the age where schedules become very important to her. And she has a little calendar. And so we can map out not too far in the future, but maybe a week or so. And so I am going to show her for that week and for that day of when we're going to be together. And so she kind of has her school routine. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:07:43]: You know, I work in the er, so I'm not always there in the evenings. Like this evening, I won't be there. So I just make it very clear to her that, you know, today I won't be there. It'll be mom, but then tomorrow I will be picking you up. And we will do X, Y, Z. We have her in a few activities and that we're going to do those things together. And I think that schedule and understanding on what day, at least today and tomorrow, what's happening, where I'm going to be and where I'm going to be for her is important. And that really works well for her. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:10]: Talking about schedule, that leads to really traditions. Right. And routines, as you said, beyond what you just said in regard to that daily schedule, what's a tradition that you've created thus far that you've created together that strengthens your bond? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:08:27]: Yeah, I think the most important one. And I actually wrote an article about this now. I'll put it in the. In the show notes. I'll send it to you because I think it's really important and adaptable for adults, too. And that's the sleep routine. It's this toddler preschooler sleep routine that we do together every night. Takes about 45 minutes, an hour total. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:08:46]: But it really helps us down and connect together at the end of each night that I'm there. And so what that means is about an hour before bedtime, we take a bath. After the bath time, we do some type of hygiene activity. Usually for her, it's flossing and brushing. And then always before bed, we go through a book. And it doesn't have to be any particular book. It can be one of her favorites. It can be one of the new ones that we've got from the library. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:09:11]: But that time spent reading and that daily tradition of this is the bedtime routine before and mom is involved as well, I think really helps us bond and helps her get to sleep better and helps me get to sleep better because I do something similar a few hours later when I go to bed. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:28]: Now, I mentioned the fact that you have a new book called Sleep well, Take Risks, Squish the Peas, Secrets from the Science of Toddlers for a Happier, More Successful Way of Life. And I also, in your bio, I talk about all the different hats. You're wearing many hats as a pediatric ER doctor, a researcher, and now an author, as well as a dad, husband, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So talk to me about the journey and what inspired you to write this book. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:09:58]: Yeah, so I'm very fortunate that I day to day get to work with children. And I've been in pediatrics for about 15 years. And these young children in particular, and I focus on this magical age between 1 and 5 toddlers and preschoolers, they just think in such a different way and they do things so differently. And I've had such so many positive experiences with them. And then I look at kind of the media and what's portrayed about toddlers, and I just see Tantrum, tantrum, Tantrum, and then something else, and then Tantrum. And that just doesn't do them justice, and it's just not who they are. And so this book really came out of what do I want to show the world about who these people really are? You know, tantrums last. We know this from the data, and if we look at the data, a median time of one to three minutes. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:10:43]: So that means, you know, half of them are less than that time, half of them are more. It'd be very rare to get to 10 minutes and very rare to get to 15. But let's say that's true. 15 minutes. They're awake for 12 to 13 hours a day. So what are they doing all of the other times? You know, they're making connections, they're learning, they're laughing, they're doing all these wonderful things. And when I dove deeper into the data on this, the way they live their lives actually maps perfectly well onto a lot of the adult wellness literature. And people just focus on toddler tantrums and what we need to do for them. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:11:14]: I wanted to flip the script completely. And so my book doesn't have anything to do with parenting. It is Wonderful for parents because they'll get it, I think. But it is all the lessons that young children can teach us. And I really wanted to make sure that people know that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:29]: We've already talked about the fact that your daughter Aria is between 4 and 5 right now. And so she's right in the middle of the toddler and preschool years and getting toward the school years. So talk to me about that interplay of being a dad and how that. And also a doctor, and working with all these other kids in your professional practice, and how that influenced your research and writing. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:11:57]: So she actually pops up quite a bit in the book because I started this book during the pandemic as well. The book proposal and my actual writing was between when she was between one and two, two and a half. So it actually occurred when she was at that age. And so I was able to pull in a lot of stories from her at that time, as well as a lot of my experience working with children in the ER as well. You know, one of my favorite stories and I and I write about this is the number of times I've been with young children who have had to fast because of me. I've told them to because they have belly pain and we have to do blood work, ultrasound, all of these things to them. And it's been several hours that they haven't eaten. And most of the time, good, they're okay, they can eat. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:12:39]: I tell the parents that the parents are ready with their favorite snack. It's always some type of cracker, usually goldfish, something else. And they give this child these crackers. And they look at me, they're able to tell just by my face somehow that I haven't eaten. Also in six or seven hours. And, you know, multiple times it's happened where they'll just give me a cracker. I don't even have to ask for it. Or they'll take a couple and then offer it to me, or they'll lick one and give it to me. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:13:02]: And they're just so kind and generous that these types of interactions really, really helped me put this all together. And I'll say, just on kindness, hands down with the 20 years, I'd say of research I kind of dug through to write this. I don't think there's anyone kinder than young children. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:18]: Let's go a little bit deeper on that, because you do talk in the book about the fact that toddlers do show that pure empathy and kindness toward others. How can parents nurture and maintain those qualities as their kids grow older? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:13:34]: Yeah. So I think one of the main ways, because kids naturally have this, as I mentioned, finding ways to give back or to helping them maintain that. So I think the easiest in some ways, but hard because it requires time, is some type of volunteer work. You know, every one of us and every little child has some cause that is very meaningful to them, whether that's taking care of pets, whether that's taking care of elderly people, something. So I think if that can be made into a family activity where there is some type of volunteer work and maybe it can be a structured thing where you're going every week and that's amazing, or maybe it can just be an informal thing where that's happening once a month when you're able to, is I think one of the ways that we can maintain their need and want to always be kind to others and make themselves feel happy from doing those activities. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:14:26]: You know, earlier you talked about the importance of connection for toddlers and building those deep connections with others around them, whether it be parents or other kids or things like that. What do you think that fathers can learn from their about strengthening the father daughter bond? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:14:46]: I think one of the ways that we can do that, and my daughter reminds me about how I can do this all the time, is with play. And you know, it requires no data to know that kids love to play more than adults do. And it's something they inject into their lives all the time. And the older, the older we get, it kind of drops away. But there's a lot of good research with adults that it actually helps us feel more relaxed, it makes us more fun to be around and more fun for the other person and all these wonderful benefits. So I would just encourage people to have that play in their lives. And one of the things I found that has helped me is to think about what are the things that I used to like to do when I was younger and kind of bring that to my daughter. So when I was really thinking back, one of the things I did when I was maybe in elementary school was play drums. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:15:38]: And that was something a lot of fun for me. And so modified that and found a hand drumming class recently and started learning how to do play hand drums. And I'm fortunate that my parents are from East Africa and they have a large collection of hand drums that they don't use, they're just on display. But we picked these up, I gave one to my daughter and after I've learned a few beats, I've come home and kind of showed her a little bit. And this is one way where something fun for me that was meaningful for me as a childhood I can bring to my daughter. And I think that would be a great way for dads to introduce something new, but also to remember what it was like to be a child as well yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:12]: I love that. And I know earlier I talked about that your daughter was at that age where I'm sure you're getting a lot of the why, why, why. And they ask ton. Toddlers ask hundreds of questions a day. But the interesting piece is as you look at kids as they grow older, as you look at adults, so many adults hesitate to even ask one question in a meeting. So how do you feel that dads can encourage their kids to keep that natural curiosity alive as they get older and as they grow? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:16:43]: Yeah, it's such an important question and I'm glad you asked it. I have a whole chapter in my book dedicated to this about asking because it's such an incredible thing that they're able to do. And as you said, over time we just go over this like XY graph cliff of how many questions we ask. You know, if toddlers are left to themselves and they're recorded, this is in studies, they can ask 107 per hour. It's really incredible how many questions they're just able to ask. And interestingly that they're getting to the answer faster what they need to know. And that's something important for us. But the other reason that they ask questions and that we should be asking questions, especially follow up questions, is that it is an incredible relationship building tool and that's really born out in the data with adults as well. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:17:28]: And so I think both ways, like encouraging your child to keep asking those questions and just doing everything you can to not get annoyed with those and realizing that they are doing it for a couple of different reasons. And then you yourself being inspired by them, because I think they're inspiring people to ask more questions of not just them, but other people around you, especially at work or in other types of two adult relationships. Because that's what actually has shown to make us more likable as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:55]: I know that in the book you also highlight the way toddlers take risks without overthinking it. How can parents balance risk taking while still ensuring safety? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:18:08]: Yeah, it's a tough one and it's a really, really good question because as a pediatric ER doctor, I see both ends of the spectrum. I see the absolute worst of it and I see all the minor injuries. And so most importantly, we have to make sure car Safety and pool safety and safety around ingestions, pills is there people they have to be in the correct car seat, there have to be four walls around pools and medications have to be locked up. But you know, most injuries around kids happen on the playground because they're just out there, they're enjoying themselves, they're trying to do new things, they're developing gross motor skills and they're going to have falls and they have falls and they have cuts. And a lot of what I do with young children is fixing fractures and fixing cuts that they have and suturing them up. And I think it's really, really important that we let kids on the playground scenario really just play and we don't have to hover around them. We know from years and years of data that the vast majority of injuries that kids get in the playground setting are minor injuries. And we can fix almost all of them. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:19:10]: And then we've gotten to the point where we're just hovering over them and making sure that nothing else happens to them and it's too much for them. They need that space, they need the room to grow. And I realizing this more and more that we've gone a little bit too extreme with the safety and we need to pull back. And it's not like this in other countries. A lot of European countries will let their kindergarten grade one, grade two Asia just go into the forest and they're watching them, but they're not hovering over them. And they're learning to discover those new natural obstacles that they need to engage with. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]: Now some of what you just talked about really talks about resiliency in kids and the fact that children are resilient when they break a limb or they fall. And I guess as you have seen that and observed that in kids, not only what have you observed from children's resiliency, but what from that resiliency can parents learn from? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:20:02]: It's a difficult issue. So many things come to mind and so many difficult diagnoses I've had to give over the years and more recently too. And it's incredible the resilience of kids that I've seen who have to come to the hospital for so many different appointments with long term illnesses like cancer. I think one of the things we can learn from children is just that they're able to maintain a positive attitude. They don't get down on life as quickly and they don't get down on themselves. And one of the things that they're able to do much better than adults too is actually self talk and a Lot of their self talk, and it's funny because they talk to themselves out loud. It's so cute. Is very positive and it's very encouraging. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:20:40]: And a lot of our self talk that happens in our minds is very negative and we get down on ourselves a lot. And so to be able to learn from them and flip that script and get our minds in a more positive space, the way we talk to ourselves, I think is a. An easy but incredibly powerful strategy. One of the things just to give your listeners a practical takeaway is when you're in that negative talk cycle, think of yourself talking to a close friend instead of yourself actually. And you'll just notice the language completely changes of how you're talking. And that can be one way to get out of that, that cycle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:14]: Following up on that self talk. I know that as you talk about that, it is a powerful tool for success with your kids and especially raising daughters. That self talk is really important because they will hear things outside of themselves. They will see things and hear things, and society will add things into the mix. So how do you believe that fathers can teach their kids to develop positive inner dialogue from that early age that continues as they get older? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:21:46]: One of the ways, and multiple studies have shown this with older kids and adults and we can start to teach them this. And I think something that adults need to learn is substituting I for second and third person. So when we're thinking about how we're feeling, we have to use you and we have to use our third person name. So for example, when we're in a very stressful situation and they put people in FMRI machines where they can measure the brain waves and they give them very aversive images and they say, what am I feeling? And then they measure the brainwaves and then the person again just says their name. So what is Hasan feeling? And when they do that, that the emotional reactivity centers in our brain are far tuned down. And so as kids get older, not at the age my daughter is at, but at maybe the age that your daughters are at, start to teach them the strategy of talking to themselves in second and third person. And it's a very hard thing to get your head around. But once you start to do that, it starts to make a difference. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:22:38]: And I think that's one of the longer term things that we can definitely leave for our kids. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:42]: One question that comes to mind after what you talked about in regards to resiliency in the way that kids process things is that, you know, I've seen so many Toddlers that just live in the moment and they embrace joy. How do you believe that parents can live more of that toddler mindset and add that into their daily lives? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:23:03]: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because, you know, we talk about living in the moment as an adult wellness thing, and there's no one that actually is able to do that as good as toddlers are. And we can't exactly get there because their brains are completely structurally different and they don't have a developed prefrontal cortex. And so they're not thinking about the future and, you know, what's going to happen in next week or maybe even in a few days. And so they're, they're naturally in tune to that, and you can see that all the time because they're looking at different objects and they're noticing things that we would never notice. So it is an incredible skill. I wish we were able to do that more. One of the ways, and this I know has probably been repeated to your listeners so many times, is getting rid of that phone. And when I come home, I'm not perfect and I mess up a lot, but I try when I come home to put it in my nightstand drawer on airplane brain mode. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:23:50]: And it's there until my daughter goes to bed. And so that's between 4 and 7:30pm at least those three, four hours when I'm with her. Not having the phone is, I think, the single best thing we can do to be more present with our kids. And I wish I was better about it. And I'm still working on it. And it's a really good strategy to help this because they're not interested in that as much and they just want to engage with you. And so if you're with them and nobody has their screens, then I think that's a wonderful way to be more in the moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:20]: And I know you also talk in the book about how adults need to be more toddler. Can you share any specific examples that you might be able to offer where adults like us can be more toddler in our own lives and that may have shown positive results or that could show positive results in our lives? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:24:42]: Yeah. And this is an incredible toddler superpower that is very obvious. And it's their ability to say no. There is nothing more powerful than a toddler. No. When they say no, they really, really mean it. And it's, it's, it's amazing. And I don't mean to be too simplistic or that we should be rude about it, but it's actually incredibly useful if we're able to say no like they are, or as many times as they are. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:25:06]: You know, we want to default to yes and we want to make sure that we don't make the other person feel bad if we're saying no when all these requests are coming towards us. But what that does over time, if we keep saying yes, it leads to overwhelm and an over scheduled calendar. And that's not good for us either, especially when we have children and we need to be around them. And so I want to empower dads and I've had to learn to do this too because I just don't have as much time anymore because I have a daughter is that I need to be better at saying no. And she's taught me that really well. And so really evaluating the requests that are coming and one good strategy that can sometimes be helpful if it's a bigger ask, is actually mapping that out on a calendar about the parts of the ask. If you have some type of report, for example, then you could break the report down into different subcategories and then actually getting a better estimate of the time before you say yes. Because we're notoriously terrible at estimating also the time something will take. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:26:01]: But the toddler no is something we should all be using more. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:04]: Now, you've given a lot of pieces of advice today. If there was one other key lesson that you'd want every person to take out of the book, what would it be? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:26:12]: I think the other part is the toddler level of confidence is also incredible. They just think they're able to do anything, including flying and things they're not clearly able to do. And you know, we don't have to be that extreme, but we also get to the other extreme where we don't have the confidence to try these new things. And that's really what helps us grow the fastest, is is trying these new things and having the confidence to do that. So I really admire them for that and I hope that everyone can see them for what they're able to do with confidence to bring a little bit of more of that into our own lives. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:46]: Now, if people want to find the book or follow your work, where should they go? Dr. Hasan Meralis [00:26:50]: So the easiest place is my website because it has everything in one place. Hasan Meraliy.com and that will have links to the book. And I'm very active mostly on LinkedIn as well as X. And you can find me there. I'm happy to connect and I post lessons we can learn from children multiple times per week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:05]: Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our. Our dad Connection six, where I ask you six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:13]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:17]: Fun. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:22]: I think it's to go back to living in the moment and dropping the cell phone. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: What's one activity you and your daughter love doing together? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:31]: Canoeing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:32]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:37]: It's to keep up her curiosity. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:40]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Dr. Hasan Meralis [00:27:44]: That I absolutely love being a dad. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:46]: Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Dr. Hasan Merali [00:27:55]: Find the activities that you really love to do and bring those to your daughter. We talked about my example of the hand drumming, but there are things, and this is what kids need, is new experiences. And so there's. There's things that from your childhood that you can bring to your daughter and that will be incredibly meaningful for both of you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:14]: Well, Hasan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for writing this book to encourage all of us to be more childlike, to be more like a toddler, and to start thinking about things differently and acting differently, but also being able to keep young no matter what age we are. And I truly wish you all the best. Dr. Hasan Merali [00:28:36]: Thank you very much. It was nice to be here. Dr. Christopher Lewis That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build strong, stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Performer [00:29:08]: We're all in the same boat is full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5—your go-to spot for five-minute ideas that help you build trust, connection, and lasting memories with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about one of the most powerful tools you have in your parenting toolbox: Creating space for honest conversations—without judgment. Let's face it—your daughter lives in a world full of pressure. She's trying to figure out who she is, what she believes, and where she fits. And as her dad, one of the greatest gifts you can give her is a safe space to talk about anything—without fear of being shamed, scolded, or shut down. Let's walk through why this matters so much, and three practical ways you can create that kind of space—starting today. Why It Matters When your daughter believes she can tell you the truth—about her fears, her mistakes, her dreams, her questions—without being judged or dismissed, she gains:  A deep sense of security The courage to be her authentic self A trusted place to turn when life gets hard And here's the thing: If you don't make that space, she'll go find it somewhere else. From friends, from the internet, from people who may not have her best interests at heart. So let's make sure that Dad is the one she can come to first. 3 Ways to Make Space for Honest Conversations 1. Respond, Don't React Let's say your daughter shares something that catches you off guard. Maybe she confesses a mistake, reveals something personal, or says something you strongly disagree with. Your first reaction matters. A lot. Instead of correcting, criticizing, or launching into a lecture, take a breath and respond with: "Thank you for telling me." "That must have been hard to share." "I'm here to listen—no judgment." You're showing her: "This is a safe space. You don't have to be perfect here." That doesn't mean there's never discipline or boundaries—but it means connection comes first. 2. Normalize Talking About Tough Stuff Don't wait for big moments to start meaningful conversations. Build a rhythm where honesty is expected and welcomed.  Talk about your own struggles from when you were her age. Admit when you don't have all the answers. Bring up real-life topics—friendship, stress, mistakes—casually, like during a drive or while making dinner. The more you talk about real things consistently, the less intimidating it is when she needs to bring something hard to the table. 3. Be Curious, Not Controlling If she says something surprising—don't jump to conclusions. Ask open-ended questions that invite more, not less. "What made you feel that way?" "How long have you been thinking about this?" "What do you need from me right now—support, advice, or just someone to listen?" When you lead with curiosity, you send the message: "I want to understand you, not change you." That's what makes her feel truly heard—and that's what keeps her coming back to you. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Create a moment today where you invite honesty without judgment.  Ask her: "What's something you've been thinking about lately but haven't said out loud?" Or say:  "Just so you know, you can talk to me about anything—even if it's hard. I won't get mad—I'll listen first." Say it. Mean it. Then prove it with how you respond. Because the way you react now is what teaches her how safe it is to be real with you later—when the stakes are higher and the conversations are even more important. That's it for today's  Dad Connections in 5. If this episode reminded you of the power of presence over perfection, pass it along to another dad working to build that kind of trust with his daughter. Until next time—keep listening, keep learning, and keep being the safe space she needs.

Hey everyone, Chris here from The Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. Just a quick note to let you know that we're taking a brief break this week—there won't be a new episode dropping, and for good reason. I'm out west with my daughter, exploring some of the most beautiful places in the country—Bryce, Zion and Grand Canyon National Parks. This trip is about more than just sightseeing. It's about being present—putting away the noise, stepping away from the routine, and really leaning into that one-on-one time that helps strengthen the bond between father and daughter. These are the moments we talk about on the show, and now I get to live one of them in real time. I'll be back next week with a brand new episode, full of insight and inspiration. But in the meantime, I hope this reminds you to carve out some intentional time with your kids. You don't have to go to a national park—but show up, be present, and create memories that last a lifetime. See you soon!

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5—your five-minute boost of practical, meaningful advice to help you build a stronger connection with your daughter. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're diving into a part of parenting that's easy to overlook but full of opportunity: Chores. Yep—laundry, dishes, vacuuming. You might not think of them as bonding time, but trust me—when done right, chores can become a space for connection, collaboration, and even fun. Let's flip the script and turn the daily grind into something that brings you closer together. Why Chores Matter for Connection Chores aren't just about cleaning up—they're about: Building life skills Sharing responsibility Creating moments for conversation and teamwork And when you approach chores as something you do together—rather than something she has to do because you said so—you create space for growth, confidence, and connection. 3 Ways to Make Chores Collaborative and Fun 1. Turn Chores into a Team Challenge Instead of saying, "Go clean your room," try, "Let's see how fast we can both clean our spaces." "You take the kitchen, I'll take the living room—let's beat the clock!" Set a timer. Add music. Cheer each other on. Make it a team effort instead of a solo punishment. When she sees you jumping in alongside her, she feels respected—and that makes her more likely to participate willingly. 2. Turn on the Tunes and Turn Up the Fun Music changes the whole vibe. Let her create a "cleaning playlist," or take turns picking songs. Sing along. Dance while folding laundry. Be goofy. It may sound silly—but those are the memories that stick. The joy in the ordinary. And if she laughs at your dance moves? Even better. You're showing her that work and play don't have to live in separate worlds. 3. Use Chores as Conversation Starters Washing dishes together? Folding laundry side by side? These are great moments to ask simple questions like: "What's something you're looking forward to this week?" "What's one thing that made you laugh today?" "If we had a robot to do one chore forever, which one would it be?" The chore gets done, and so does the connection. Win-win. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Pick one chore to do with your daughter this week—and make it a moment. Set a fun timer and race the clock Blast music and turn it into a dance party Ask one silly or thoughtful question while you work Whatever it is, show her that chores aren't just work—they're shared time. A space where you show up together, take care of your home, and maybe sneak in a few laughs along the way. Because it's not just about getting the job done—it's about how you show up while doing it. That's it for this episode of Dad Connections in 5. If this helped you see dishes, dusting, or laundry in a new light, share it with another dad who's ready to turn the daily routine into a relationship-building moment. Until next time—keep working side by side, keep having fun, and keep turning the everyday into something extraordinary.

If you're a father searching for ways to build a deeper, more meaningful relationship with your daughter, the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast is a must-listen. Host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Rick Walker—business leader, father of three teenage daughters, and author of the upcoming book, Nine Steps to Build a Life of Meaning: How to Unlock Your Mind, Happiness, Power, and Your Enemy's Demise—for a powerful and honest conversation about the realities and rewards of fatherhood. Throughout the episode, Rick shares invaluable insights not only from his professional life but, more importantly, from his lived experience as a dad. One of the central themes is the importance of truly being present. Rick describes making family dinners a priority, and how even simple rituals—like driving home from summer camp or sharing milkshake runs—can be crucial opportunities to listen and connect. He emphasizes the need to go beyond just showing up: "Attention is the only resource I have to offer," he says—highlighting that those everyday moments of real engagement are what matter most. Rick also touches on the challenges of fatherhood: balancing guidance with allowing independence, recognizing each daughter's individuality, and pushing through discomfort during tough conversations. He admits that sometimes daughters will push their dads away, and it's up to us not to give up, but to keep returning, reaffirming our love, belief, and pride. A particularly inspiring message from the episode is the idea that meaning often comes from confronting challenges. Drawing from his book, Rick discusses how fathers—and their children—grow through adversity, and why "avoiding an ounce of pain means drinking a gallon of regret." For dads feeling stuck, burnt out, or disconnected, he gently suggests that often, the thing you least want to face is where real growth—and renewed connection—can be found. Practical advice abounds: tell your daughter daily that you're proud, that you love her, and that you believe in her. And, most importantly, let them see you strive not just in your career, but in being the kind of person you'd want them to choose as a partner one day. If you're ready to laugh, reflect, and gather actionable wisdom for your own journey as a dad, be sure to check out this heartfelt episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection. It's a reminder that you don't have to walk this path alone—and that every father has the power to be the dad his daughter needs. Listen now and start building that lasting connection today! If you enjoyed this episode, we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community, and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. Rick's Book (9 Steps to Build a Life of Meaning): https://amzn.to/4nGYDFq Rick's Newsletter: https://funnel.rickwalker.com/optin?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=hostlastname Rick on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rickwalkertx Rick on X: https://x.com/RickWalkerTX Rick at Lumicre Private Equity: https://lumicre.com/   Rick's Website: https://www.rickwalker.com TRANSCRIPT Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Rick Walker [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I'm so excited that you are back again this week as we walk on this path together on this journey of raising amazing daughters. Rick Walker [00:01:03]: And, you know, none of us have to walk on this path alone. It's so important that we're willing to put ourselves out there to be willing to learn and to listen and to hear the journeys of other fathers. Because as you and I both know, the journey of fatherhood is not always easy. There are challenges, there are bumps, and sometimes you can get some bruises along the way as well. But you can learn so much from other fathers and see what they're doing, take what they're doing, adapt it, adjust it, make it your own, and identify ways in which you can take that learning and turn it into something amazing that'll help you to be the dad that you want to be. That's why this podcast exists. We want to have amazing connections with our daughters, and that's not always going to be easy. We have to learn and grow along the way. Rick Walker [00:02:05]: We have to better understand the journey that they're on. And that's why every week, every week, I love being able to have you here to be able to learn from other fathers. And that's why I bring someone new to you every week that allows for you to do just that. This week, we've got another great guest. Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]: Who? Rick Walker [00:02:21]: Rick Walker is with us. Rick is the author of a upcoming book called nine steps to build a life of meaning, how to unlock your mind, happiness, power, and your enemy's demise. And he is a renowned leader across multiple domains. He's been a founder CEO of a 400 employee company, and he scaled that up from there. And he also scaled a 2020 team member nonprofit into 53 countries as a chairman. So he's done a lot of stuff. But even beyond that, he is a Father of three daughters, three teenage daughters at that. And I am really excited to be able to not only talk to him about his upcoming book, but also to talk to him about his own journey as a father. Rick Walker [00:03:08]: Rick, thanks so much for being here today. Christopher Lewis [00:03:10]: Christopher, it's joy. Looking forward to our time together. Rick Walker [00:03:12]: Well, I'm really excited that you're here today. And as I, as I said, you are a father of three daughters, and I always start these conversations with an opportunity to get to know you a little bit more as a father yourself, and especially a father of a daughter. As I said, that connection that we want to build is so important. And as you think back to the moments that you've had thus far in your life with your three daughters, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughters thus far and what made it so special? Christopher Lewis [00:03:41]: One of the more meaningful moments has been with my daughters whenever they would finish up that summer camp. And so we've always tried to make it a point of being there to pick them up from summer camp camp and drive them an hour home just to hear everything. And if you're a dad of a teenage daughter, what you know is you get one of two things. You either get the talkative girl when she's with her friends a lot of times, or you get the quiet one who's too cool to talk to mom and dad. But sometimes if you haven't seen them in a week and they've been through a lot and they're all together, you can get them to talk. And so just being able to listen to them and hear their stories after camp, after not seeing them for a week or so and them also not seeing their sisters for a week, that's always just been a joy. So we do that every year. But yeah, I do find that it's more difficult to get them to open up. Christopher Lewis [00:04:25]: And those handful of times where we can get them to really open up unguarded, that's always a very meaningful time. Rick Walker [00:04:31]: I said that you had three daughters, and I know they range in age from 12 to 17. And every father that has kids knows that your kids are not going to be duplicated of one another. They are very unique individuals. They have different personalities, and you have to come to understand who they are as individuals. Talk to me about, I mean, you're a busy guy, so talk to me about how have you been able to. To really identify those unique aspects of your own daughters to. And how have you been able to make those strong connections with each of your daughters individually so that you can have that connection that you want with each one of them. Christopher Lewis [00:05:10]: Very early on I stumbled across the work of Dr. Meg Meeker, which I imagine you've probably spoken about her a number of times on your podcast and began reading some of her work. And some of the work was life changing. Just the idea that if I could find opportunities to be able to share with my daughter that I, I love them, that I'm proud of them, I believe in them, that that makes all the difference sometimes between a daughter that follows a winning path versus one that doesn't. And so that's always been a joy to be able to do that. And so from the time they were very young, I always encouraged them to try a number of things and we always would have them in one academic activity, one musical activity, and then one sports activity at least. And so having those three things going at the same time kept us very busy. But over the long term they eventually found one thing that they really loved or two things that they really love and it's helped them. Christopher Lewis [00:05:57]: But the musical capacity we've always found. My wife and I were musicians, we've had musicians on my wife's side of the family. I have a bachelor's degree in music. I believe that music certainly helps children with their mathematical prowess as well as their ability to I guess, consider the imaginative aspects of the intellectual. And so we've made that a very strong priority in our kids upbringing. And we've got at least one of them that's pretty dedicated to her music. But then the sports also, the sports help develop the social and seeing them differentiating in the sports element, my 17 year old, she's a pre professional ballerina, so that is an art and a sport. The these girls, they've got more muscle mass than a lot of these high school football players do, but it's a lot of artistry too. Christopher Lewis [00:06:37]: And so just trying to figure out where they are has been really impactful. And my wife and I, and then My daughter, my 12 year old, she's the rule follower and she can do anything. She can do academics, she can do sports, she can do music, she can do anything. And so we're excited about her, but she just has a natural gift to be able to get along with people. But trying to expose them to those three different areas from very young has given us a little bit of a glimpse of what they can and they can't do. And they've been able to convince themselves that they can excel in certain areas and they can sell in certain relationships dynamics. Rick Walker [00:07:05]: As you're raising your daughters, you have to find that balance of being able to guide your daughters while also giving them the independence to become who they're becoming. Talk to me about what you've done to be able to do just that. Christopher Lewis [00:07:20]: Yeah, so it's a trade off. And every child is different. We have one child who's very, very independent or middle one and she's in middle school. I wouldn't second guess leaving town, leaving her at home for a week by herself. I've never done that. But I wouldn't think twice about it because she's just, she's so independent. She has such high emotional intelligence and she just sort of figures stuff out. She's reliable. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]: But then we have other kids that, that they need to be engaged on a regular basis because they're more social creatures and they just don't do where do well in certain social environments with either a large number of people like a public high school or a small number of people. So you have to sort of find that mix there. But it's my objective to obviously get them acclimated to a wide variety of social structures and social environment. But they're not always to do that. Especially during these critical teenage years. You have other things emotionally and socially and even spiritually in play that us as men from what I found anyway, we just can't relate to that. And so my wife, she had to speak a lot of wisdom into those, those interactions over the past number of years. Rick Walker [00:08:22]: What are some intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bond or your connection with your daughters, especially during challenging times. Christopher Lewis [00:08:29]: So one of the things I read very early on was that what teenage daughters will do is they'll, they'll tend to push the dad away. They'll push them away at some see if he's going to come back for her. And if the dad doesn't come back for her, she begins to self reinforce this idea that I've got to go and find another man that's going to sort of fill that void. Not basically the father void, but just some sort of masculine type of presence in their lives. And so I've always been one that whenever they sort of push me away, I encourage them, but then I'll pursue them. They have to know that there's nothing that they're going to do that will get me to give up on them, to back down from my commitment to have a relationship with them and also to I guess not encourage them to be on a healthy path. Going forward. Obviously, we all make stupid decisions in our lives, with our lives, but there's also some. Christopher Lewis [00:09:14]: There's also something special about having at least one person in the world that really believes in. In you unconditionally. And that's the role that I want to. I want to play. Not that I approve of every decision or every action, but I approve of the person themselves. And I believe that my daughters can be called higher into a better future than even they can imagine themselves to be in. Rick Walker [00:09:33]: I know that as a father, I've made my share of mistakes along the way, and I think every father makes some mistakes along the way. What's a mist that you made as a father? And what did you learn about it? Not only about yourself, but about fostering positive connections and communication with your own daughters. Christopher Lewis [00:09:51]: For me, anyway, I failed to listen to my gut a number of times. And whenever I didn't listen to my gut, and I thought, no, I'm just overthinking this. I'm over worrying what may or may not be happening. I made a grievous error to doing that over the years. And so what I believe is that obviously this child who is a part of me, that there is some sort of resonance there there. That whenever I suspect there's an issue there, I feel something kind of within my bones, that there's something that I need to address that when I don't address it, it's an offense to the gods, if you kind of get what I'm saying there. It's an offense to fathers everywhere that I need. It's my job to be proactive, not be reactive. Christopher Lewis [00:10:27]: And so I've got to be proactively engaging in these relationships. And when I'm not, that always tends to be a failure in that situation. In the long run, eventually. But love is always a sacrifice. It's always a sacrifice. And you often will put yourself out there. You'll make that comment, you'll make that assertion. You'll call that that child to do something that she doesn't want to do. Christopher Lewis [00:10:45]: And it's always fun. Rick Walker [00:10:46]: No, it's not always fun. And I definitely hear you in that. What do you do intentionally to make your daughters feel valued and heard? Christopher Lewis [00:10:54]: So, first of all, you've got to give them eye contact. The only thing that I have to offer anyone in the world's attention, that's the only thing I have to offer. That's the only resource in the entire world, is attention. And so if I can't give them eye contact and understand, let Them understand that I'm hearing what they're saying, I'm processing it and repeat it back for them, and they can correct me if I misunderstood. That is a great deal of it. The other thing is we try to do family dinners as often as possible. Obviously, we're scattered, doing all sorts of activities, and we can't do that every night because we've got everything going everywhere with sports and music and stuff. But and having a sort of a protected dinner time, protected family time around the table, that is really, really critical. Christopher Lewis [00:11:32]: I suspect that if a man doesn't get his dinner table right and doesn't get his books right and he doesn't get his quiet time right, he can't get his life right. Like, those are the really only three, three things that matter in your life. And so focusing on the dinner table, focus on that time together is really important. And when you can't do that, hey, you know, I'm the chauffeur. I'm driving kiddos to practices and we're talking. Even though they're exhausted, I'm letting them know, hey, I saw you make this play. What if we did this next time? What is this person saying on the court? How can we encourage our team members? And then we also talk about their future? I've also found, I'm a big believer in Viktor Frankl's work, that if we can get people focused on their future and what their future self would want them to do in the present, well, then that gets to open up an entire world of opportunity for these girls. And it gets them off the idea that my present is the only thing that matters. Christopher Lewis [00:12:14]: But, no, I've got a future self that has certain expectations of me now, and I have a responsibility to that future self. Rick Walker [00:12:18]: I mentioned at the beginning that you're the author of an upcoming book, nine steps to build a life of meaning. How to unlock your mind, happiness, power, and your enemy's demise. And, you know, as I was looking and reading through the book, one of the questions that came to my mind is right at the beginning, you dedicate the book to your wife and daughters. How is being a father to three girls shaped your understanding of a life of meaning? Christopher Lewis [00:12:42]: Pent up in the idea of meaning. And people often confuse purpose and meaning to be the same thing. Purpose is a. As a condition of meaning, oftentimes. But pent up in these ideas, you have this notion of relevance. And relevance has to do with endurance, this enduring presence that I want to leave behind to the world whenever I'm dead and Gone. And I suspect for me, the most important endurance or relevance that I'm going to leave behind to the world are these three daughters and their kids and their grandkids someday. And so if I want to live a life of meaning, I have to figure out how do I get the ideas and the beliefs that I have to endure in the long run, because only by their enduring can I have a chance that they'll be relevant long term. Christopher Lewis [00:13:26]: Because I think it was Lewis that said this, and this is a common quote, you'll see Mother's Day some years on these cards. He said that it's not what you do, but who you raise that makes your life matter. It's not what you do, but who you raise that makes that makes your life matter. And I suspect most of us, that's the state. So it's not our jobs, it's not these hobbies that we have. It's not these grand podcasts that you and I host. It's not any of this stuff. It's our kids, and they're sitting there. Christopher Lewis [00:13:51]: That's the irony of life. The most important things are the most obvious things that you most want. And most tend to snub because they're just so commonplace. They're there all the time. They ignore you all the time, but those are the most important things. And our kids, man, the kids. If my kids don't love me and I don't love my kids, none of this other stuff matters. Rick Walker [00:14:08]: Also in the book, you talk about picking a worthy enemy. How does that principle show up in your parenting, especially when guiding daughters through challenges in today's world? Christopher Lewis [00:14:19]: So the book is primarily written towards men that are in the midst of this meaning crisis. This is the group of men that are sort of 25 to 45, sometimes up to 50, that don't have a worthy purpose of their lives. They don't know what they want to do. And guys like me, coming out of the business world, we always tell people to pick a goal instead of vision, and let's work the objectives and the tactics to get back to that. Let's accomplish your goals. But men that don't have a vision of what the future could possibly be, they don't have any goals. And it's impossible for us to tell them to go do something, to be something where they can't even envision a world with goals. And so my argument in the book for pick one worthy enemy is that you need something that breaks your heart. Christopher Lewis [00:14:55]: You need something that's worth giving your life for. Some Evil to overcome in the world. And there's evil manifesting all around us. You look at pornhub, you look at the children that have been just taken completely advantage of on that platform. Well, a man giving up his life to go fight against that manifestation of evil, well, that's a worthy cause because you're protecting people, you're protecting innocents who can't defend themselves. So we look for worthy enemies. And that pursuit against the worthy enemies is what gives us not only the energy that we need to go out and try some stuff, because that's the main issue, is we're not trying. We don't have goals, we don't try. Christopher Lewis [00:15:26]: But we need the energy. And we find that cause that problem that just shatters our heart that will give us the energy. And somehow, I don't know how it happens, but we get sort of a divine onslaught of resources to help us in that fight. We find friends that want to help us in that fight, and we can begin building coalitions and purposes. And so it starts small with our daughters. It starts on the lacrosse field, on the soccer field, it starts on the basketball court. How are we going to overcome this 10 point deficit? What are you going to call forth out of your teammates? What are you going to do on the defensive end so that you can have an offensive upset? This is the way that I've got to talk to my daughters. Because if I don't give them that level of pursuit, if I don't give that mentality that they can overcome their challenges, what kind of man are they going to marry? Look, the type of man that they're going to be looking for without that sort of mentality is a weak, defeated man who's used to losing. Christopher Lewis [00:16:11]: No, I want my daughters focused on winning, overcoming challenges, realizing that there's failures, there's very real failures in life, but those are overcomeable as long as you have one breath left. Rick Walker [00:16:21]: I know you just talked about that target audience for the book, and I'm going to say that a lot of dads, especially in that target audience, some of those dads, feel stuck either in a job that they don't love or routines that feel, I'll say, hollow. Based on the nine steps that you list in the book, what's the first step that a father should take when he realizes he's lost his sense of purpose. Christopher Lewis [00:16:44]: You need to take a step. You need to make a move. And that move may be trying to discover what really breaks your heart. And I hate to really simplify it like that, but. But what angers you that you see out in the world? It may be something you see in your children's school, maybe something you see in the school district, maybe in a local church, your local synagogue. It may be something that you have around you, but it may be some sort of societal issue or some online issue. Just start working against that. And the more evil that problem is, the more divine the energy you accrue fighting against it. Christopher Lewis [00:17:14]: I mean, the purpose of the light is invade the darkness. The purpose of the good man is invade the evil. It's. This is the way that the nature of the world works. If you want to be a good man, you want to be a man that has definition, purpose and pursuit and energy, you got to combat that which is not good. I mean, it's that simple. So we're looking around for something, and I would put a cap on it. I would say I'm going to identify something in the next two weeks. Christopher Lewis [00:17:34]: And Sunday night at this time, this is what I'm going on. And I'm going to give it until this happens. And you've got to leave it out on the field. As they told us when we were growing up, you got to give it your all. And I'm not saying you ignore your family, I'm not saying you ignore your job to do this, but you've got to find something that you can pick up a bit of passion out of. Just a bit of passion, just a bit of energy. And that bit of energy will give you the spark that you need, need help the other steps fall in place. But we've got to pick up an idea about what's possible. Christopher Lewis [00:18:02]: What difference I can make? Once you have an idea about what difference you can make, you have a potential for relevance. Rick Walker [00:18:06]: Also in the book, you say that aiming low is the only sin. How can fathers aim higher in their everyday lives? Especially when they're exhausted, they're overwhelmed, or they're just feeling like they're trying to keep their head above water? Christopher Lewis [00:18:20]: The widest mind looks into the most distant future for the most valued reward that he can purchase with the currency of the present. Let me repeat that. The wisest mind. This is the wisest father. The wisest mind looks into the most distant future for the most valuable reward that he can purchase with the currency of the present. And what you have in the present is your time and your attention. And so you've got to figure out what in the future is worth you giving your only life for. And it's not something that's lower than what you have, you have kids, you've got daughters around you, you've got people that you can call forth more out of. Christopher Lewis [00:18:51]: You can say these difficult things. If you're not used to talking to your daughters like this, all it takes is or three times, you have to be prepared to be uncomfortable in that, in that conversation and just blurt it out, say, hey, I believe in you, I love you, I trust you, and know that you're going to have a commanding future. Or ask them questions like this, like, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? Or think about your most perfect ideal future self? And what would that perfect future self tell you to do? Ask reflective questions about the future to your daughters. And it's going to be uncomfortable the first three, four, five times you do it. But the more you do it, the more easier it gets and the more the relationship grows and it becomes one of trust, not just one of immediacy and putting out fires. Rick Walker [00:19:29]: You also say in the book, no joy requires pain. For dads who are numb, burnt out, or emotionally disconnected, how can they reconnect with that joy? Even if it hurts first, you have. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]: To say the things that you least want to say. It's that passing comment that you thought you should have said five years ago to your wife, I'm sorry for ignoring you, or your wife, I'm sorry for going to golfing with the boys, or I'm sorry for drinking so much. It's those little things, those little steps of humility. Because what you least want to do is the thing you most need to do next. What you least want to do right now is the thing that you most need to do next. And it is that immediate pain of doing the thing that you've been putting off, the thing that your, your mind and your comfort have been enslaving you to preserve. It's that thing that's keeping you from your future. That's what. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]: That's what it is. And it's that pain. If you can get rid of that pain and comfort is the number one pain, one or one thing that pain is protecting or that your comfort's protecting, it's protecting you against pain. If you can burst through that, then you've got a little bit of a glimmer of joy. But as long as you don't do the things you know you should be doing, your life is a lie. And so we've got to say the things we know we're expected to say the same things we've been talking about the last few Minutes, the encouragements, the love, the support, the belief in. I'm proud of you. Tell your wife she looks beautiful. Christopher Lewis [00:20:47]: I mean, I don't care how crappy your marriage is. Tell her she looks lovely. Tell her that she is. Is the most amazing, whether she is or not. And you're proud and you're honored to be in this with her. I mean, say the most difficult thing. The worse your marriage is, the more you need to say it and the more you need to. To live like you mean it. Christopher Lewis [00:21:04]: Whether you mean it or not is irrelevant at this point. We've got to say those important things that we've been holding back, because that is only the way that we can burst through the pain, burst through the comfort to get to joy on the other side. Rick Walker [00:21:14]: So really, you know what I'm hearing, and I saw this in the book too, that you're talking about in some aspects that you have to make some sacrifices. And many men afraid in many ways to take that leap, leaping into something new, something that. That makes them sacrifice. The things that they feel are. Are the things that make them who they are, whether it's time or money or ego or whatever it might be. What does your book teach? Or what would you say to that person about embracing sacrifice as a path to meaning? Christopher Lewis [00:21:46]: No one ever knows that you love them unless you sacrifice something to be with them. If I'm going to give my daughter her attention, that means I'm sacrificing the rest of the world for her. Everything else is a sacrifice to what I'm giving my attention to. And that's why attention connotates meaning. It means meaning. And that's what we've got to do. There's also sacrifices. Of the things that are useless in your life, you're doing a hundred useless things that have no upside whatsoever. Christopher Lewis [00:22:11]: I can think about the golf with the buddies. I can think, for a lot of men, the drinking. Like, why are you going out and drinking two or three times a week? It has no upside. It only has catastrophic downside. Some of this stuff is just the most foolish thing you can imagine. Look, if you're taking an infinite downside risk for zero upside payout, that's kind of a foolish thing to do. That's a great thing to sacrifice and replace it with the thing you most need to do. And that what that thing you most need to do is give attention to someone who is committed to you and you're committed to and develop that relationship because all you have left after you die is your relationships. Christopher Lewis [00:22:43]: That's all that you have. And so what we've got to do is try to figure out what are we sacrificing? Because you've already sacrificed your past. All your prior moments have been sacrificed to your present. This is all you've got. And all you're going to do is sacrifice a series of presences to be able to dictate and determine what your future is. And so we've got to realize we're living a life of sacrifice, whether you realize it or not. And what we sacrifice determines what we love, and what we love determines how relevant and how meaningful our lives will be. But everything worth keeping is worth sacrificing. Christopher Lewis [00:23:13]: Nothing not worth keeping is worthy of offering everything you value is worthy of sacrificing to someone that is higher, to a future that's more distant and a reward that is better. Because anything you have now is always worth sacrificing for those relationships and the future that you want to see happen. Rick Walker [00:23:33]: So inevitably, there's probably some dads that are listening right now that are feeling like they have failed. They failed in some aspect of their life. And whether it was at home or at work or with themselves. What would you tell him about redemption and legacy and starting again with meaning? Christopher Lewis [00:23:54]: I failed a lot. In fact, whenever I try something new, I'm assuming I'm going to fail 99 times before it works. Once, I failed a lot. And this book is a story of my failures. Where I've. I've been devastated on national news, where I've had my love with my wife just completely shattered, where I've had all these failures. I had a surgery that went bad and just distorted my mind for many, many years. And I had all these things. Christopher Lewis [00:24:18]: Things fail and just stupid things that I've done, just failure after failure. But what I've realized is the people that failed, those are the ones whose lives are actually interesting in the end. Those are the lives that have the potential to be redeemed out of this sort of muddy mire that they've been stuck in. And the redeemed man, in a world that's interested in stories, a redeemed man is more perfect than a man who's never needed to be redeemed. Because what we're saying is that a man who's lived a beautiful life and redemption is a beautiful act that if you're focused on telling a beautiful story with your. That redemption is the ultimate type of beauty and the ultimate type of story that you can tell with your life. And so the worse the man the higher the upside. It's not about the man who's always been good. Christopher Lewis [00:24:59]: He got a little bit better. That's an interesting. That's not a story that anyone wants to hear. What I want to hear is about a man that's been in the depths of hell, that's made all the mistakes you could ever imagine, and he's bounced back from that. It's about the delta between your lowest point, your highest point, and where you in. And that delta is what matter. It's the contrast from where you were to where you're going, not the contrast of how good you are. And that little mediocre change that you made when you. Christopher Lewis [00:25:25]: When you did this or did that. It's not about that. And so what life is. Life is just a string of failures with the occasional moment of perfection. It's just a string of failures with just an occasional moment of perfection. And however many moments of these of perfection that you can. You can get together in a life, that's what makes a life of relevance and a life of beauty and a story that people want to hear. And so for the men out there that have just been down on themselves, that have just made mistake after mistake, that just don't know how they're to come overcome it, and they just assume everything's lost, I can tell you that I understand where you've been. Christopher Lewis [00:25:59]: I've made the catastrophic mistakes that many of you have made. And I can tell you there's hope. And let me convince you with this. I'm going to convince you literally that there's hope for you. That if a drop of hope exists, exists anywhere, it threatens all hopelessness everywhere. If a drop of hope exists anywhere in the world, it threatens all hopelessness everywhere. So my drop of hope that I have, I don't have a lot of hope. I've got a little of a drop of hope right now. Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]: My drop of hope is now threatening your hopelessness right now. And you have a choice whether or not you're going to allow my hope to invade your hopelessness, whether you're going allowed my light to invade your darkness, that thing that you're trying to protect, that comfort that's enslaving your potential, and if you will allow my hope to invade the comfort now enslaving your potential, it'll be ripped away. It'll be ripped away. And you'll be able to see that there's a future and there's a hope, but you could never get there unless you believe hope is possible. You believe a Future is possible unless you believe that there is beauty rising out of the act of redemption. The man that turns himself around is more beautiful than the man that was always headed the right direction. That's not the story I want to hear. I want to hear story about a man that always had it together. Christopher Lewis [00:27:03]: I want to hear about a man who confronts evil with good. I want to hear about a man who finds meaning out of meaninglessness. I want to figure out a way to hear a story about a man who takes his pain and inverts it to joy. That's what a real story is about. And if you want your kids and your grandkids to talk about you, that's the sort of life that you need to live. Rick Walker [00:27:21]: So talk to me about how you have taken these nine concepts, these nine pieces from your book and how are you incorporating them into how you're raising your daughters. Christopher Lewis [00:27:31]: They have to understand, and this is something, this is a job of me as a dad, is that we're going to have pain. We're going to have pain in our lives, we're going to pain in relationships and tragedy, we're going to pain the sicknesses. But a painless world would only birth joyless lives. A painless world would only birth joyless lives. And so if I can encourage them to look at that spread, to look at that spread between pain and joy, that the broader that is, the higher the joy is, then they can see that there's hope for them even in their downfall, even in their tragedy, even in these, these moments that teenage girls just assume, which is the worst thing, and it's unsalvageable. They have to understand that there's a mechanism that, where they can be able to tell more beautiful, more lovely story with their lives. And these are lessons that they're going to teach their own kids, their own grandkids one day. These are all just learning opportunities for them and even for us. Christopher Lewis [00:28:19]: But I've got to convince my kids, and you've got to convince your kids as well, the listeners do, that there is hope on the other side of pain. And the way that we get, we, we get there is we got to convince ourselves and we got to convince our kids that whenever we see a threat, there's always an opportunity on the other side. In fact, that's what defines a wise person. Not only that they look in the most distant future for the most maximal reward, but that they see threats and they figure out a way to turn them into opportunity. And so if we realize that every threat we see is an opportunity. Every pain is a potential joy. And we're able to ingrain that in our mind. Then we begin to see that there's hope on the other side of the darkness. Rick Walker [00:28:55]: Now, if your daughters were to describe you using one of the nine steps from your book, which step would they say that you live out the most? And which one would they say you're still working on? Christopher Lewis [00:29:07]: They know dad can be just absolutely brutal with someone who tries to come after one of my kids or someone that I love. The the first rule, pick one worthy enemy. They know that dad can just be utterly savage if he needs to be. Obviously you never turn that aggression in where that's for protecting your inner circle, those you love from the exterior. But one of the difficulties in that I found is that we have to set forth the difference between an enemy and a counterparty. A counterparty is not an enemy. A counterparty is someone that you're negotiating with. You'll be able to operate in a good faith effort to be able to find a winnable outcome for both parties as much as possible. Christopher Lewis [00:29:44]: But an enemy, you don't negotiate with enemies, you destroy enemies. And so I think, I think if my kids had to say one thing, they know that dad loves a good fight, but it's got to be worthy enemy. It's not just a counterparty. Rick Walker [00:29:56]: You've also, you've advised presidents, you've led nonprofits across the 50 states and countries. And yet you also do ballet drop offs and milkshake runs and other things that a dad would do. What's the most unexpected place you found wisdom about being a dad? Christopher Lewis [00:30:12]: I found this book about daddy daughter dates. I forgot who wrote the book, but it was like 100 daddy daughter date ideas. And I kept this book on one of my tables in my office for years. I would pick it up and thumb through it maybe once a week and try to find an idea. When the kids were young and they had this, this one date idea where you would leave the house and your daughter would have a quarter and she would flip a quarter. If it's heads, you turn right tells you turn left and you'd side in advance how many flips you would do. So you would do eight, nine, ten flips. Well, you can be a long way from your house if you're doing 10 flips. Christopher Lewis [00:30:40]: But the rule is you have to eat dinner together at the nearest place that serves food. And oftentimes it's a gas station. It's just a gas station. And so this idea that you can have Fun would just complete and utter nonsense sense. That's something that has been useful in the past. It is still useful today that we can just do stuff, just to do stuff, just because we're goofing around together. And that's been something because I'm not naturally a playful person and that's helped me let the guard down, hear from my daughters about what's really going on in their lives, what's what they're saying. And obviously we don't get to do that as much as we used to back in the old days with all the activities and stuff. Christopher Lewis [00:31:15]: But it takes, it takes different forms. Takes different forms. Listen to silly music, watching silly videos together in these milkshake runs. These milkshake runs are fantastic. If you, if you've never been do a chick fil a after, let's say 7:30 any night of the week. It's an entirely milkshake business. It's milkshake and fries after 7:30. And there will be a run on the milkshake machine. Christopher Lewis [00:31:33]: You'll find 20 cars lined up and everyone's getting milkshakes. And that's part of the deal. So you got to figure out a way how to have these little routines, these little rituals in with the family, wherever you can fit them. And that's been one of the useful things, these daddy daughter days and sort of these playful times of just complete, utter nonsense. Rick Walker [00:31:47]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection. 66 more questions to delve into you as a dad. Are you ready? Christopher Lewis [00:31:55]: Yeah. Rick Walker [00:31:55]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Christopher Lewis [00:32:00]: Productive. Rick Walker [00:32:01]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]: Tell them you're proud of them every day. Rick Walker [00:32:07]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together? Going to eat Mexican food and then getting shakes afterwards. Christopher Lewis [00:32:14]: Oh, absolutely. You got to get a shake afterwards. Yeah. Rick Walker [00:32:16]: Now, if you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would you leave with them? Christopher Lewis [00:32:22]: Avoiding an ounce of pain. You will drink a gallon of regret. Rick Walker [00:32:26]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Christopher Lewis [00:32:30]: That if I want my daughters to marry someone who I believe is worthy, I've got to be prepared to act like that most worthy example for them. Because they're not going to marry someone that's too far away from how good or how bad a father I want. Rick Walker [00:32:47]: Now, you've given a lot of pieces of advice today, a lot of ideas for men for fathers to think about and to incorporate into their own lives. As we finish up today, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]: Tell them the things that they need to hear and make it every day and make it uncomfortable to hear. Sometimes it'll sound like routine. But if you let them know, I'm proud of you, I believe in you. You're awesome. I love you. If you haven't told your daughter I love you, some other man will. But he won't mean it. And he'll tell it for a different reason that you won't like. Christopher Lewis [00:33:21]: So tell your daughters that you love them. Tell them that you're proud of them. Tell them that you believe in them. They need to hear those three things from you every single day. And if we can give them those ideas that they're loved, they're believed in, and there's someone out there that's proud of them. Oh, and he just happens to be the only man who they were born in the world to be in relationship with for as long as he lives. Well, that's just a side benefit, but we've got to get our daughters used to hearing and believing the things that will uphold them going forward and the things that confirm their identity in such a secularizing culture that we live in now. Rick Walker [00:33:56]: Well, Rick, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for all that you've been sharing today. If people want to find out more about you about the book, where should they go? Christopher Lewis [00:34:03]: So my website is rickwalker.com rickwalker.com and I send out a newsletter about every one or two weeks is a three, two one model. So you get three bangers. So these quotes that I've been dropping, you get three of those, I call them bangers. And then I'll give you two videos. So one will be teaching for the most part, another one will be an interview and then the third thing I'll give you is either an essay or some reflective questions to think about. So either a long form essay or reflective question. These are big idea essays or big idea thoughts. Those are the best things. Christopher Lewis [00:34:31]: The book is available beginning July 5, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, anywhere you buy your book books and you can actually pre order it right now. So Kindle ebook. I just wrapped up the audiobook yesterday so that'll be available for pre order as well and hardback and paperback. Rick Walker [00:34:46]: And I will put links in the notes today so you can check out this book for yourself. And Rick, again, thank you, thank you for all that you've shared today for what you're putting out into the world to help other men to be able to live that life of meaning that we've been talking about. And I truly wish you all the best. Christopher Lewis [00:35:04]: Christopher, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our time together. That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes@dad dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we. Rick Walker [00:35:49]: Spend the time we give the lessons. Christopher Lewis [00:35:55]: We made make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dinosaur you can be Be the best dad you can.

Hey dads, welcome back to Dad Connections in 5—where in just five minutes, we give you real, practical ways to stay connected with your daughter, no matter her age. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about a question every dad eventually asks: "How do I keep my daughter talking to me as she gets older?" You know how it goes—when she's little, she can't stop talking. She wants to tell you about her day, her dreams, her favorite color five times in one hour. But then, things change. She gets older. More independent. And sometimes… quieter. But here's the good news: You can stay close. You can keep the conversations going. And today, I'll show you how. Why This Matters Staying connected through conversation isn't just about knowing the details of her day—it's about: ✅ Keeping the door open for deeper topics ✅ Building trust so she turns to you when things get hard ✅ Letting her know: "Dad is always a safe place to land." The habits you build now shape whether she'll come to you later—when it really counts. 3 Ways to Keep the Conversation Flowing (at Every Age) 1. Listen More Than You Talk This sounds simple, but it's powerful. When your daughter shares something—big or small—pause, stay present, and just listen. Avoid jumping in with advice, correction, or distraction. Say things like: "That sounds frustrating. Tell me more." "What did you think when that happened?" "I'm really glad you told me." When she sees that you won't interrupt, judge, or fix, she learns that you're someone she can come back to again and again. 2. Make Talking Feel Natural, Not a Big Event If every conversation feels like an interrogation, she'll shut down. So, make talking part of your daily rhythm—not something formal. Use car rides, bedtime, walks, or dinner as natural check-in moments. Keep your tone relaxed, your questions open, and your attention full. Don't force it—sometimes the best conversations happen when you're doing something else together (like cooking, shooting hoops, or running errands). She's more likely to open up when it doesn't feel like a spotlight is on her. 3. Stay Curious About Her World As she grows, her interests will change. Music, shows, social media, hobbies—you might not always understand them. But if you dismiss them, you might also miss your chance to connect. Ask her what she's into Watch a show she likes and talk about it Ask for her playlist recommendations Be genuinely curious, even if it's not your thing When you stay interested in her world, she's more likely to invite you in. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Today, ask one open-ended question—and just listen. No judgment. No fixing. No distractions. Try something like: "What was the funniest thing that happened today?" "If you could plan our weekend, what would we do?" "What's something you wish adults understood better?" Then—just be present. Be quiet. Let her talk. And show her with your silence that her voice matters. Because keeping your daughter talking to you as she grows isn't about saying the perfect thing—it's about being consistently safe, curious, and available. And when she knows she can talk to you about the small stuff, she'll trust you with the big stuff too. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If this episode reminded you of how powerful your presence can be, share it with another dad who's working to stay close as his daughter grows up. Until next time—keep listening, keep showing up, and keep letting her know that Dad is always ready to talk.

Parenting is a continual journey, one that evolves as our children grow and as we, too, learn new ways to connect with them. This week on the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Eran Magen—father, relationship expert, and creator of the Parenting for Humans and Divorcing Dads resources—for a heartfelt and refreshingly honest conversation about fatherhood, connection, and resilience. Presence Over Perfection One of the central themes of the episode is the power of presence. Eran shares that being fully present—and putting away distractions, especially digital ones—lays the groundwork for genuine connection. Whether through playful activities like acro yoga or watching a favorite show together, the focus isn't on orchestrating perfect moments, but on truly showing up for our kids, time and time again. Respect and Emotional Safety Eran emphasizes treating children with deep respect, validating their feelings, and giving them true space to express themselves. Instead of rushing to fix problems or dismissing their emotions, he advocates for really listening—even paraphrasing back what they've shared—to make sure they feel heard and understood. This builds not only trust but helps children develop a positive, self-compassionate inner voice that stays with them for life. Connection Before Correction Drawing from his work at ParentingForHumans.com, Eran introduces the concept of prioritizing connection over correction. When the bond between parent and child is strong, discipline becomes less about control and more about collaboration. It's about building relational habits—like kindness, presence, and respect—into everyday life, so that challenges are easier to navigate when they arise. Navigating Divorce and Co-Parenting For fathers navigating separation or divorce, Eran offers wisdom and hope. He urges dads not to let shame or fear of disconnection hold them back from seeking support, or from fighting for meaningful time with their children. Even in limited circumstances, quality of presence trumps quantity—being truly engaged makes all the difference. Whether you're a dad seeking fresh ideas, a parent amid big transitions, or simply someone passionate about fostering strong family relationships, this episode is an inspiring listen. Tune in for practical tips, honest stories, and compassionate advice that will help you nurture lasting bonds—one present moment at a time. Ready to be inspired? Listen now to the full conversation on the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast! If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love being able to talk to you about this connection that you want to build with your daughters. And we do that every week because it is a process. This journey that you're on is going to be one where you're going to have to learn, you're going to have to grow, you're going to have to be willing to be open to finding new ways to build that relationship day by day. Because as your daughter grows, you can't just think that one way of doing things is going to happen and stay the same. You got to keep adjusting and being there, being engaged and helping your daughter one step at a time and being engaged and connected to your daughter in so many ways throughout their life. That being said, that's why every week I bring you different guests, different people with different experiences to help you along this journey, to give you some tools for your toolbox and to allow for you the opportunity to learn and grow, to be able to find new ways to build those stronger connections and to leave every episode with an opportunity to be able to start something new from the end of that episode on. This week we got another great guest. Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]: Aran McGinn is with us today. And Aron is someone that, as he says, he believes in relationships, believes in people and helps people to have better relationships. Perfect fit for you as a dad with a daughter. He's also a father of a son, so we're going to be talking about his own journey being a father. He's been working with individuals for quite a few years and most recently he's been created two new resources that are definitely going to help you as a dad. He has a site by the name of Parenting for Humans as well as divorcingdads.org we're going to talk about both of these resources and some things that may help you along the way, depending on your own situation and where you're at. And I'm really excited to have him here today. Aron, thanks so much for being here. Eran Magen [00:02:18]: My great pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:21]: Well, it is my pleasure having you here. And as I said, you are a father of a son and I am really excited to be able to delve a little bit into you as a dad to get to know you and your own journey. I guess as you think back to the time that you've had with your son thus far, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with him and what made it so special? Eran Magen [00:02:41]: I'm glad you want to talk about my son, because it's my favorite topic. And, you know, if we don't watch ourselves, we're going to have the podcast equivalent of me showing you every photo of my son except an audio version that I have. I'm. I'm one of those people. There are a lot of good moments. The most recent, I'll go with the most recent that, like, stood out to me, which was really fun. And then I'm happy to scan backwards, if you want, and come up with even better ones. I do a thing called acro yoga, and Acroyoga has very little to do with yoga and more to do. Eran Magen [00:03:04]: Like, sometimes people call it partner acrobatics. It's when. When people balance on each other. And a lot of parents do this with their kids, right? The parent lies down on his or her back, and the kid is on the parent's feet, sort of belly down, arms forward, Superman, right? Like, we. We all do this with our kids, but it gets much more sophisticated, and you can do many more interesting things. People can sit on other people or stand on other people or flip around on other people and so on. And you can do it with grownups, and you can do it with kids, obviously. And it's easier with kids because they're little, alert. Eran Magen [00:03:31]: And so this is something that I've been doing with my son since he was little, and we do it a little bit. I kind of wish he was super into it and he's kind of into it, but he's the most into it when he can show off to other people, when it's just the two of us. He's like, I don't know if I need to do it right now. But we were playing soccer in his school after I picked him up, and we're playing with another kid that often plays with us there. And then my son went off and did something else. And in the meantime, I was doing some acro yoga with this other kid, introducing him to it, and his mom, who was there and consented to the whole thing. And my son ran back and really wanted to do some acro to show the other kid that he knows more. That was very motivating for him. Eran Magen [00:04:06]: And then we did, and it was fun. But then the next day we came out, and it was sort of the first day of spring here in Connecticut, and we. We just stepped out to the yard, and out of nowhere, my son says, dad, do you want to do some acro yoga? Do you want to practice? And my heart just Expanded. It was just so nice because he, he, you know, I didn't suggest it, I never mentioned it, but it was sort of back on his mind. And it's just so nice to feel like our kids are into things that we're into and they want to spend time together doing those things. That was a really fun moment, but they're just thousands of these stories. This is the most recent. I keep a spreadsheet that I made when he was born. Eran Magen [00:04:36]: When he was born, I did two things. I created an email inbox for him, which I occasionally write to things that I can't say now that he wouldn't understand. So I write stuff that I want to tell him, letters for later, and I'll give him the login credentials when he's. Or 18 or something. And the other thing I did is start this spreadsheet called Milestones and Memories and First Times. And I just sit down and write stuff that happened every once in a while. So I have like this long list that I can go through and see the things that were exciting for me. When he was 2, when he was 4, when he was 6. Eran Magen [00:05:04]: It's really fun. And this is one of those moments. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:06]: As your son is getting older and you are trying to guide him and work to be able to mold and meld him into the adult that he is becoming, how do you balance guiding your son while also giving him the independence to grow into his own person? Eran Magen [00:05:23]: I think my job is mostly to provide kind of safety and nourishment and let him grow where he grows. I'm not trying too hard to move him one way or another. I'm vegan, for example. I don't insist on him being vegan. Not my job, not his problem. I keep my home vegan because it's more comfortable for me. But if he really wants to bring something into that, we're in the supermarket and we'll buy stuff and he really wants to get something that isn't, that's fine. Then we will. Eran Magen [00:05:47]: Certainly, if we're out in the world and he wants to get something or word a party and he wants to eat a thing, everybody eating totally fine. And so I'm not trying exactly to mold him into anything. I'm trying to provide good supports for him as he grows into things. There's a little bit of a gray line, right? Because if I see him kind of starting to spin out about something, be really anxious about something in a way that I think is not necessary, I'll try to help him figure out ways to not be upset about it. And so is that molding? I sometimes ask myself. Yeah, but it feels very kind of benevolent and not coercive. You know, this. This feels more like me removing roadblocks than forcing him to go down a specific path. Eran Magen [00:06:24]: And so I really think there are many ways to describe the job of parent, and many people have lots of ideas about what those jobs are. I think they're probably all true. I think one of the most important parts of being a parent, one of the most important jobs, is creating the voice that kids have inside their head, how they talk to themselves, because that voice will stay on for many, many years. And changing that voice requires a huge amount of therapy. And so that, to me, is a very, very important part of what I think about as a parent. How I hear him talking to himself and helping him adjust that voice. I'm not trying to tell that voice what to tell him to do. Right. Eran Magen [00:06:56]: It's more how he relates to himself. So in a real sense, one of my primary jobs is making sure he has a good relationship with himself. What he grows up to be is up to him. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:04]: What are some intentional ways you've worked to strengthen your bond with your son, especially during challenging times? Eran Magen [00:07:11]: I would divide the ways into two big categories. I think one is just helpful habits, and the other is maybe specific events or specific things in time. The most important habit by far is bringing my full presence. Right. My phone is away. My phone is often on do not disturb. It's 100% focus on him when I'm with him. And I think that makes an enormous difference. Eran Magen [00:07:31]: He's not orbiting. We do stuff together. And when we're not doing stuff together, then we're not. Then we're doing stuff separately. But if we are connecting, I'm fully there. I'm not splitting my attention. And I think that's enormously important. The other thing that I do, I don't want to make it sound like I am the first person to do this or the first to have thought about it, but I just think it's so important, is I communicate with him with great respect. Eran Magen [00:07:55]: I treat him as a person, not as a soldier or a servant or an ignorant person or any of those things. If he has a question or if he has a thought, we really discuss it for as long as he wants to, basically. And when I see that he's starting to look in different directions and is getting antsy, then we'll go do something else. Like, we don't have to belabor the point, but really taking Very seriously. His thoughts, his questions, his ideas, his opinions, they really count. So these are all things that I would put in the relational habits bucket in terms of the, like, more specific things that I do to strengthen the bond. We really do a lot of this stuff together. So for example, videos, YouTube, you know, or shows on Netflix or whatever, we watch those things together and we'll talk about them. Eran Magen [00:08:37]: It's a big part of what we talk about later. And I think it's helpful to help him process and understand what he saw and what his opinion is and whatever. But I don't just like send him off to watch a thing and then we do our next thing. A lot of this kind of activity is something that, that we'll do together and it creates a huge amount of shared language and shared jokes and shared things. We also do just a lot of activities together. I'm into a lot of stuff and I'll offer these things to him and if it's of interest to him, then we'll do it and we'll go, you know, ice skating or practice proto jiu jitsu on the carpet or cook together or whatever, whatever it is. But a lot of time and a lot of shared activities. So I think this combination of doing lots of stuff that we both enjoy together and being very respectful of his preferences and opinions and thoughts and questions and ideas, and interacting him as though he's an actual person and not less of a person than I am. Eran Magen [00:09:26]: These are probably the main columns supporting the relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:29]: What's a mistake that you've made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection? Eran Magen [00:09:37]: There are a couple of things. I remember where I noticed my son having difficulties with some things. And I thought, ah, the world will correct this. I don't need to step in. And that's sort of a, I don't know, call it like a general tendency that I have. I guess in some contexts it's good, in some contexts it's bad but. Or helpful and unhelpful rather. I guess. Eran Magen [00:09:53]: But I tend to wait until stepping in and intervening with something and often that's a good thing. Like, you know, a lot of parents are really worried about their kids still using a pacifier when they're X months old or. And I've never seen a kid in college with a pacifier in his mouth. You know, like these things tend to work themselves out, but people can get super worried. And so I'm usually of the opinion that like the world will fix this. We just give it time and this will work out. But there are some things where he really had difficulty, and I waited too long to step in and do what I would consider a more significant intervention. Right. Eran Magen [00:10:27]: Like some kinds of. I want to be mindful of my son's privacy as well, because in 60 years, when he chooses to do something, or in 40 years or 20 years, you know, somebody digs up, the podcast says, oh, you used to do this thing. So I'm actually. I'm very mindful of the privacy of kids in sessions that I do, including, I guess, when I'm interviewed. This is the first time that I'm talking about this. But he had some social challenges that he was going through and were noticeable to me. And I thought, oh, the world will polish this off. This will be okay. Eran Magen [00:10:53]: And I think it was like, it. It required some sort of a more thoughtful, intentional intervention that eventually the school recommended, and then we did. And I think it's been very helpful and not. Not too hard. We didn't catch it super late. Like, no crisis resulted, but I could have done it earlier. I felt sad for not doing it, because it just would have made, I think, life a little easier for him during those, I don't know, two, three years. And now there's something that there's a pathway that got laid down that was not the most helpful. Eran Magen [00:11:20]: And changing something and undoing something is always harder than it is just correcting course earlier on. So I don't know if this is exactly answering your question in terms of, like, a relational mistake, but this is a parenting mistake that I feel that I made and learned from. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:33]: No, it definitely does. And I think that, I mean, learning that is definitely something that all of us have to do along the way as well. Is there anything that you intentionally do to make your son feel valued and heard? Eran Magen [00:11:45]: There are a few things that I do. And really, a lot of how I relate to my son is in service of making him feel valued and heard. And so I'm trying to pick out the more specific things that I do because a lot of this is on my mind, kind of ongoing. How do I make sure that he feels like he has a voice? And so a few things that I can say when he's upset about something. I remember this when he was two, and I remember this two weeks ago when he was seven and a half. I don't shut down the upset. I spend some time, a good deal of time, letting him express the upset, and I'm still comforting him during the process. But I don't say it's not a problem. Eran Magen [00:12:19]: I don't say, you know, stop crying. I don't say, you know, I ask him to explain what happened and what was so upsetting. And I'll kind of sit in it with him and I'll paraphrase and say it back and so on. But I'm not trying to shut it down or fix it too quickly. And I think that's really important because I've seen him develop this habit of as a result, I believe, of when something upsetting or surprising or scary happens, he'll have the reaction, but then he'll narrate the process back to me and sort of calm himself down as he more or less immediately gains an understanding of this story and what made him upset. I think that's been really useful. But I think just in general, it's a nice thing for people to do with one another, right? Not shut down the upset, but rather sit with it for a little bit and sit in it together. His opinions really matter. Eran Magen [00:12:57]: If he suggests things that didn't occur to me, I'll consider them really seriously. He's at this point, he's suggested some ideas for not just ways to spend a day, but like a vacation destination or a totally new activity that we've never done that he just heard about from a friend, and that becomes a real thing. We'll research it together a little bit, and if it seems appealing, we'll go and give it a try. So he really gets to to lead when he wants to, or at least suggest directions, and then I'll operationalize it. But he has a real voice and a real say in how we spend time individually and as a family. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:30]: Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you have a few different resources that are available. You have your parentingforhumans.com website as well as divorcingdads.org and both of those were created not only to help others like yourself that were going through similar things, but also in your work and your engagement with people and seeing the need. You expanded that. And there are a couple of questions that came up when I looked at both of these sites. And I think first and foremost, when I was [email protected], your site emphasizes connection before correction. Can you explain what that means and why it's so crucial for parents, especially fathers? Eran Magen [00:14:12]: It's my strong belief and also my consistent observation that when the relationship between a parent and a child is good, everything is easy. There's just not the constant conflict. There's not the badgering. Do this now, like I told you a thousand times, things are just easy and smooth. And when people have a stronger relationship, then there's more trust and there's more willingness to be vulnerable and honest on both sides. And there's more forgiveness and there's more cooperation. And so spending time just laying the foundations and having a good relationship just preempts and prevents all these negative things that then need to get corrected. It's sort of like living a life and eating well and doing a reasonable amount of exercise and sleeping enough, socializing and having enough fun, and then you just have to deal with a lot less, fixing medical problems. Eran Magen [00:14:57]: Right. They just tend to happen. And I think it's very much like that in relationships too. Just spending time building a strong relationship rather than relying on occasional forceful corrections which leave everybody, I think, unhappy, basically. And for a lot of people growing up, the role of the dad is often as the disciplinarian. At least that's the caricature. I'm not totally sure that that's always true or even true the majority of the time. I know a lot of soft dads, and I know a lot of harsh moms, and I know a lot of harsh dads and a lot of soft moms. Eran Magen [00:15:26]: But I do think that a lot of men, certainly from the past three generations, grew up not being taught how to show affection in a soft way and how to connect in a way that feels warm and comfortable and consistent, as opposed to occasionally dropping in and doing some big gesture, but in the meantime being sort of cold or reserved or stoic. And when you don't have a strong relationship, inevitably things start, start sliding and then you need big corrections to happen, which I think damage the relationship further. So I'm a big, big believer of creating that foundation of just a strong relationship through good daily, call it relational hygiene, just developing good relational habits. Things that we do without thinking over the course of the day as, as a habit that we, we adopt. And through that, strengthening the relationship constantly. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:13]: Now, many parents want to be more supportive, but fall into that problem solving mode. How can dads become better listeners and emotionally attuned to their kids? Eran Magen [00:16:23]: There's one technique that I think is magic and keeps us safe. It keeps us from making these kinds of relational mistakes. And the technique is not only magic, but also super simple, which is what's so nice about it, which is paraphrasing. Learn to say back what the other person said to you. And the, the thought behind it is the thought we want to have behind it when we're paraphrasing. Is, am I understanding your experience correctly? Just that, right? So our kids come in, our kid comes in and looking, you know, unhappy. And we say, what's going on? And kid is in a sharing mood that day. And she says, oh, my friend Jessica is being a pain at school. Eran Magen [00:16:59]: And so to be able to say in our heads, huh, let's see if I understand correctly my kid's experience and saying, so Jessica is being mean to you because that's what we understood. And then our kid might say, no, no, she's not being mean to me. She's being super nice to me. But I know that behind my back she, blah, blah, whether we get it right or we get it wrong, it doesn't matter. Just putting herself in a position and in kind of a mental stance of trying to understand our child, child. And all we need to do is say back what we heard. We don't need to interrogate, we certainly don't need to diagnose, definitely not give advice. Just getting in the habit of when our kid looks upset to just once, just for one turn, try to paraphrase, try to say back what we understood. Eran Magen [00:17:40]: And seeing what happens. And very often they will share more and more. And it's kind of amazing because parents often feel like their kids, once they hit a certain age, will not share with them anymore. But if we're not trying to shape their experience, they want to be heard, right? And as we build trust with them, they share more and more. So if I could suggest one single thing, which I think is what you, you were asking me to do, I would say try paraphrasing once as the first thing you do in a conversation and see what happens. And then if you can, keep on paraphrasing as they continue talking. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:07]: Now, you also talk about emotional safety and parent child relationships. What are some simple everyday ways fathers can do that? Eran Magen [00:18:15]: So I'll continue a little bit from my previous answer and then I'll give a couple of other things. The huge power of paraphrasing comes not just from having the child correct you yes or no, but we're showing so much when we're trying to check if we understand the child's experience right. We're showing that we want to know. We're showing that we're not judging and we're not taking charge of the conversation. We're letting the child lead. We're showing that we're curious about the child's experience and validated. There's just so much power there. And we do all this pretty Implicitly, through the process of paraphrasing. Eran Magen [00:18:44]: I think also doing it explicitly is very, very important. So a lot of us grew up not seeing examples of. Well, some of us just grew up without having people around us saying, I love you or I care about you or any of those things. And then we feel awkward saying them ourselves to other people. And likewise, maybe we never saw examples of people saying something like, your happiness is the most important thing for me, or I really care about how you feel, and I want to know what. What could make things better for you, in your opinion or any. Any of those things. And I think that the assumption of telepathy, or the hope of telepathy, silent relationship killer, including between parents and kids. Eran Magen [00:19:22]: Right? Because we know parents occasionally will say in anger, everything I do, I do for you. How could you possibly think that I don't care? And usually when it's done in anger, it happens because it's. It's too late into the process. And the kid really didn't understand. The kid really didn't see it. And being able to verbalize it earlier is so important. So I think getting into the habit of telling our kids, not in anger, but in great warmth and happiness to say, I'm so happy to see you happy. Let's say something good happened. Eran Magen [00:19:48]: Our kid, you know, did something that our kid feels good about. And to say, this is awesome. I'm so glad to see you so happy. You know, I love seeing you happy like this. Like, just remembering to say these things rather than just say, good job, you know, punch in the shoulder, move on with our day. It's so important to verbalize it. And when our kid is upset to say, I can see you're upset, you know, and I really want to help you solve it. Or if our kid says, I really want to get into band at school. Eran Magen [00:20:11]: And then two days later, we realized that it would be a good idea for a kid to spend more time practicing the oboe or. Or whatever it is using to get into band. And to say, not just, I think you should be practicing your oboe. Like, if you want to get into band, I think you should just. But to lead with. I remember a couple days ago, we were talking about how much you want to get into band. And their kid goes, yeah. And we say, you know, I. Eran Magen [00:20:31]: I want to see you achieving your goals, right? I want to see you happy and doing things you want to do. And it looks like band is one of those things. And. And I was thinking about ways, you know, things you could do or we could do to help you get into band. Do you want to talk about this? Do you want to hear what I'm thinking? Right. But just being explicit about our goodwill toward our child, ridiculous as it sounds to many parents, is so important because the kids don't know. How would they know this is their first time around. Right. Eran Magen [00:20:54]: We're just. We're expl. Expecting them to know all these things that they. They might not. And so being explicit about our goodwill toward our kids is enormously important. So that's one thing. And the second thing I'll say much more briefly is remembering to be present is number one, to be nice is number two, and to be respectful is number three. So being present, I talked about this already. Eran Magen [00:21:13]: Just actually having times when are dedicated to our kids and everything else on the side. Being nice. By being nice, I mean remembering to actually say thank you, remembering to praise, remembering to tell them how good we feel when we're around them or we see that they did certain things. These are all so important and don't happen often. And then number three, in terms of being respectful, I touched on this before. Treating them like we would treat people who are farther from us, like we would treat colleagues in terms of the level of respect. So not just kind of waving your hand at them when it's time for them to leave or do a thing, but actually turning our body and looking at them and saying, why don't you? Blah, blah, blah, or would you please? Or things like that, instead of shouting instructions from a distance, coming over and speaking with them and saying about the things that we want them to do. So being present, being kind, being respectful goes an extremely long way in just developing habits around that into our daily behavioral, relational repertoire. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:05]: Now, I mentioned that you have another resource called divorcing dads.org and I know that you created that not only for yourself, but for others that are going, that went through or are going through divorce and what they can do to be able to not only stay connected to their child, but be advocates for their child, etcetera, etcetera. And I know that divorce can bring a sense of failure or shame. When I've talked to dads that have gone through this in the past, that's definitely the case. What's the first mindset shift that you encourage fathers to make when they go through a separation? Eran Magen [00:22:39]: I think the very first act to do when going through a separation is to connect with support. Like you said, a lot of people are blocked because they feel ashamed of what's happening, whether or not they Feel it's their fault. They feel like this is a shameful thing and not to discuss or they don't want to talk about it with other people. It's very common. I agree. But to connect with support is step one. Step one is not to eliminate the shame or remove the shame. That can take a long time. Eran Magen [00:23:01]: Connect with support anyway, right? Just going to deal with the shame. You don't have to change it right away. We do want to change it later on. But step one, by far the most important thing, connect with support. Friends, family, people who care about you, counseling, faith leaders, you know, a hotline, whatever it is. But just connect with somebody. Start getting support. Don't, you know, sit alone in your dark home despairing. Eran Magen [00:23:23]: That road leads to very bad places. Just immediately reach out and connect with support. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:27]: Now I know that in looking at your site you've said that co parenting is more like being co workers than ex lovers. How can dads adopt a more businesslike approach to parenting with an ex without sacrificing empathy or communication? Eran Magen [00:23:44]: There are many flavors of co parenting, you know, depending on how the separation and divorce happen. I know co parents who used to be be romantic partners. They have a very good relationship and it's very easy and fluid and supportive and friendly and that's wonderful. And I think that's ideal. And sometimes that doesn't happen, right? Sometimes there's neutral at best relationships or sometimes there's a lot of bitterness and hostility and stress. And still things need to happen, right? Decisions need to happen about the kids. Logistics do need to be coordinated one, one way or another. So what I'm going to say now, I'm referring to these more high tension in or more conflict ridden relationships. Eran Magen [00:24:19]: Not the super friendly. If it's super friendly then, then great, be super friendly. You don't need to force collegial relationship on a friendship. If there's a friendship there, that's ideal, that's wonderful. But if there isn't, how do we still communicate? So tension will rise as conflict rises. Anything we can do to reduce conflict, I think is worth doing. And you know what, I'll take another little detour here. There's this, I think myth floating around that kids are hurt by divorce. Eran Magen [00:24:40]: The divorce is bad for kids. That's not the case. What's bad for kids is being exposed to parental conflict whether or not the parents are married or divorced. And you can see this easily in very bad relationships where people stay together. The kids have a very difficult time and will carry that difficult time for a long time and divorces that are friendly and cooperative and work well, the kids are doing fine later on, it's so important to insulate the kids from parental conflict. So ideally reduce conflict and at any rate insulate the kids from the conflict. And so first principle is whatever we can do to reduce conflict, we should. And if we're able to discuss it with the other parent in advance, things that we disagree on but can agree on, on solutions that work for everybody, great. Eran Magen [00:25:18]: If we can't do it on our own, go to a mediator, work on that, go to a co parenting coach or counseling or something like that. These things exist and work and are well worth it in terms of treating the parent as a colleague. Create boundaries, Create boundaries that work for you and ideally work for the other parent as well. But certainly they have to work for you. Whatever makes you feel safe physically, emotionally, relationally is fair game. You can ask, please don't contact me during these and these hours unless it's an emergency or you can say, let's limit our communication to email. Email, I'd rather not talk on phone or it's too spontaneous or make up a reason or whatever you need. Right? But if it's too activating for you to talk with the other parent or you get kind of sucked into conflict this way, then find communication methods that do work for you and respect the wishes of the other parent about this. Eran Magen [00:26:02]: Right. Because the goal is to reduce tension. There's so much stuff that can easily activate either parent and so find ways to communicate that cause the least amount of activation for the other parent. And the other is like in a work setting, just have very clear delineation. Here are the to do on items. Here's what you're going to do. Here's what I'm going to do. Is this correct? Just assume nothing, make it super, super clear what's going to happen. Eran Magen [00:26:26]: And lastly, if the other parent is acting in ways that are upsetting to you or uncomfortable to you as you're trying to do something for your child, just do your best to put aside, ignore the emotional layer of the communication. Focus on the logistical so you can do that. Just like if you had an annoying co worker and there was nothing you could do about it because you tried fixing it and the language didn't change and you went to HR and they don't care and they're like, well, well they're technically within the balance of whatever and so you can't change their behavior. But focus on the actual specifics that need to happen in Order to make sure you're taking care of your kid. And remember that this person is no longer your anything other than the parent of your children. Right. I think it's a very helpful semantic switch to go from my ex to my kid's mom because it's actually true. That is the function of the person in your life right now. Eran Magen [00:27:12]: And I think it helps us remember also that this person is actually very important. Important. And we need to treat that person with the right level of respect and consideration because our kids need their mom. It's like they need their dad. And it reminds us to just tread a little more lightly because we don't want to actually hurt our kid's mom or distance our kid's mom. The kids need their mom. We just need to figure out how to coordinate. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]: Some fathers worry about becoming less present or connected after a divorce. What can they do to maintain a strong bond with their kids, even if custody time is limited? Eran Magen [00:27:45]: Feminine There are a few things to do and I'll say them in no particular order. One is work to have more time with the kids. It can happen through discussion and agreement or it can happen through legal action. But don't give up on having more time with your kids. That's really important because it's very easy to perceive a societal message that says there's no reason for you to have more time with your kids or of course they should be spending more time with their mom. It's kind of a societal default at this point and you don't have to accept the default default. And it's okay for you to want to and act to have more time. So again, first and foremost, express your wishes clearly. Eran Magen [00:28:19]: And if your wishes can't be met, if you're not able to see them as much as you would like, consider pursuing them possibly through legal action. That's a possibility. Consult with a lawyer and see what can happen. Or at least I mean start with mediation and then ideally go to non adversary legal representation, which is a whole thing that I wasn't aware of before, where it's a lawyer who, who signs an agreement with you in advance to never represent you in court. And so they're incentivized to keep you out of court because if you go to court, you stop working with that lawyer. So the incentives become aligned through that kind of practice. So if you and your kid's mom can get with a non adversarial practice, that's a huge win. And if necessary, yes, go to court, of course. Eran Magen [00:28:54]: But step one, make your wishes known. Step two, argue and work to actualize your wishes. Having said this, in the meantime, what do you do in terms of connecting with your kids? One really important thing to remember is that, that it's extremely hard for kids to become disconnected from their parents. There are many kids, I'm sure that all of us know, and maybe some of us have been, who see their dad once a week, twice a month, once a month, three times a year. And still as kids had this sense of like, this is my dad and it's exciting, I'm going to go see my dad. Where, you know, as the dad in the story, you're like, this is horrible. I'm never seeing my kids and I don't know what's going on with them. But the kids remain very connected to their parents. Eran Magen [00:29:31]: It takes a lot to disconnect, connect the kid from the parent. And so fear less, have less fear about your kids becoming estranged from you. Again, do what you can to have more time. But, but it's unlikely your kids will stop thinking about you as their dad or as their parent and want to connect with you. So that's, number one, just kind of reduce intensity internally. Number two, during the times that you do have together, be a hundred percent present, especially if you don't have a lot of time together, 100% present, zero distractions, block everything off. It's, it's amazing what the impact of this kind of quality time is. And if you look around at friends who have access to their kids all the time, you may discover that they have a lot less quality time with their kids than you do because they're not as focused, they kind of take it for granted. Eran Magen [00:30:12]: And you can build an amazing relationship off of a handful of times a week for a relatively short amount of time. If you're 100% focused and present on the relationship, you don't need to do crazy stuff. You don't need to constantly bombard them with gifts. You do not need to play catch up with the things that they do with the other parent or compete on gifts and excitingness and whatnot. Just focus on being the best father you can be while you're with them. It'll take you such a long way and they will stay connected to you. Just be present, Just use that time that you have well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]: You also provide scripts and guidance for difficult conversations. What's a good way for a dad to explain the divorce to his child in an age appropriate, supportive way? Eran Magen [00:30:57]: So back to first principles. It's really important to insulate kids from parental conflict. Exposing Kids to parental conflict and parental animosity is just very bad for the kids. The kids are strongly connected to both parents. They can't help it. Asking them to acknowledge that you're upset or hurt or, you know, what have you, it is tearing them apart. It's just so damaging. And so leaving that part out, I think is very important. Eran Magen [00:31:23]: Maybe that's something you talk about with them when they're 30. It'll still hurt when they're 30, but by then they will have figured some of it out. But leave out the hurt and the nastiness. And I would say talk in terms of friendship. Talk in terms of, we were such good friends for a long time, you know, and we lived together and we had you and we had your sister, and we were so happy in doing this. And at some point, and then whatever the actual story is, I think it's fair to say maybe it was your decision, maybe it was Mom's decision, maybe it was a mutual decision. But you could say, like, you know, at some point we realized that we don't want to live together anymore. We want to live separately. Eran Magen [00:31:53]: And we, of course, continue to be our parents. And that's a point to keep emphasizing. Right? We both love you so much, and you. You are so important to us. But we didn't want to continue living together. We decided to go more or less our separate ways, but to continue to be your parents and make sure that we're taking care of you and all of this and kind of present it fairly lightly. I wouldn't say nonchalantly. It's not like, I mean, unless that's the model of relationships you want your kid to have in their head, if that's how you're thinking about it. Eran Magen [00:32:18]: But for me, personally, I don't want to present it as, oh, yeah, you know, we were super committed to each other and lived together and then decided not to. And, you know, we'll see what happens, happens next. Like, it's a big thing. Maybe it's a big, important decision, and it's okay to say it was. It was sad for us or it was hard to figure out how to continue from there. But, you know, we knew all the time that the most important thing is to take care of you, blah, blah, blah. And I think that about covers it. So just kind of sanitize it a little bit in terms of conflict. Eran Magen [00:32:41]: Sanitize the conflict out of it. Explain that you reached a decision that was ultimately mutual. Right. Even if, let's say it was. It was Mom's idea And you really didn't like it. Eventually you agreed to the separation, obviously. Right. You're not camping out under mom's bed against her wishes. Eran Magen [00:32:55]: Like you agreed at some point that this needs to happen. Sanitize the conflict. Emphasize that was a mutual decision. Emphasize repeatedly that you are committed to your kids, that they're important to you, that you love them, that you want to do the right thing for them always. And that's about it. You don't need to dwell on it an enormous amount. Kids, especially when they're younger, up until, I don't know, maybe nine or so, are so amazingly self centered. They don't dwell too much on like your experience of things. Eran Magen [00:33:20]: It doesn't really matter to them. They just need a story that makes sense to them, to them. And I think that version of the story is reasonable that you tell them later on as they get older. If they want more detail, maybe you can share. But I would encourage everybody to not disparage the other parent ever again and not start kind of hearing the kid in both directions or say things that are can be upsetting about the other parent. And if you hit a point where the kid asks a question, which they will at some point about the other parents motivation or about the other parent's thinking or about why would the parent do this thing? The answer is, you know, I really don't totally understand it myself, but I respect your mom's wishes or you know, her choices. And I don't have a better answer that sometimes people do things that we don't understand completely, but they still get to make the choices that they make and leave it at that. If the kid wants to go talk to the other parent about it, fine. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:07]: We always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connection six where six more questions to delve into you a little bit deeper as a dad. Are you ready? Eran Magen [00:34:16]: I am ready. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:17]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your son? Eran Magen [00:34:20]: Joyful. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:20]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Eran Magen [00:34:24]: I'll give you a twofer actually. As I was going through the separation process and I was very worried about my son becoming essentially estranged from me because I didn't see him a lot the first few years and a friend taught me to ask two questions whenever I start kind of spinning out. One is how's my son doing? And the other is how's my connection with my son? And as long as the answer is good and good, then there's nothing to worry about. Sure. I might want to See him more. Sure, I might worry about what will happen in the future, but right now, he's well, he's taken care of. He's fine. And my connection with him is great. Eran Magen [00:34:50]: And so the problem is more in my head than in the world. So learning to ask these two questions, specifically, going through a divorce or separation, how's my son doing? How's my connection with my son? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:59]: What's one activity you and your son love doing together? Eran Magen [00:35:02]: There's so many. I'm gonna have to go with wrestling. I've been doing jiu jitsu for many years now, and I love it. And I'm very careful not to sort of impose it on my son, but I would say at least every other day, he'll sort of tackle me to the ground and then start climbing on me and kind of shriek and enjoy himself. And it's just super fun. It's so physical. It's not violent. Like, we're very gentle with each other. Eran Magen [00:35:21]: There's so much physical contact that happens that's really fun. Sometimes it'll stop and ask a technical question, and then I feel good about being able to explain something, but it's. We're just messing around most of the time, so just kind of rolling around on the carpet or the beanbag. It's just super fun. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]: If you could give your son one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Eran Magen [00:35:38]: I think about this a lot. One life lesson, one advice for life that I would give my son. Son feels so momentous. A message that I often convey to him is, you can learn anything. You can become great at anything if you're willing to put in the work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]: Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their kids? Eran Magen [00:36:02]: Have focused, present fun with your kids, starting now, and never stop. It's not a later thing. Just right now, start having the relationship you want to have all the time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:11]: Well, Aran, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey as a father, but also the resources that you have created. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go? Eran Magen [00:36:22]: Well, first of all, thank you for your very thoughtful questions and responses. I really appreciate it. Like, it's clear that you're so connected and interested and thoughtful about it. It's really. It's such a pleasure to get to think about my own parenting this way to learn about me. I. Yeah, the two places would be either parenting for humans.com that you mentioned or divorcing dads.com that you mentioned then I'm very easy to find and contact through these places. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]: Well, again, Aran, thank you. Thank you for being here today and for sharing this and I wish you all the best. Eran Magen [00:36:53]: Likewise. Thank you so much.

Hey dads, welcome to another episode of Dad Connections in 5, the podcast that gives you quick, meaningful ways to strengthen your relationship with your daughter—five intentional minutes at a time. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and today we're talking about something fun, energizing, and powerful for connection: exploring new hobbies and interests together. You don't need a perfect plan, expensive equipment, or shared expertise. You just need curiosity, a little time, and a willingness to try something new—with her. So let's talk about why exploring hobbies together matters, how to get started, and a few creative, low-pressure ideas that can bring you closer today. Why This Matters Shared experiences build strong relationships. And when you try something new with your daughter, you're not just filling time—you're saying: "I want to know what you enjoy." "I'm interested in learning with you." "It's okay to be beginners together." These moments create laughter, conversation, teamwork—and long-lasting memories. Plus, you're modeling a growth mindset: that it's always okay to try something new, even if you're not good at it right away. 3 Practical Ways to Explore New Interests Together 1. Let Her Lead the Way Ask your daughter: "Is there anything you've always wanted to try?" It might be something unexpected: Painting or digital art Martial arts Photography Gaming Baking a new recipe Gardening Creative writing or poetry If she's passionate about something—even if it's not your thing—lean in. Trying it together shows her that her interests matter to you, and it gives her the chance to take the lead for once. 2. Try Something Neither of You Has Done Before Pick something totally new to both of you. That way, you're both starting from scratch and learning together. Take a beginner class online (like drawing, coding, or sign language) Build something—a birdhouse, a puzzle, a LEGO masterpiece Learn a few chords on the guitar Explore nature—go geocaching, hiking, or try birdwatching This levels the playing field. You'll laugh together, mess up together, and figure things out as a team. That's where connection grows. 3. Make It a Monthly "New Thing Day" Pick one day a month to try something totally different together. It could be 30 minutes or a whole afternoon. Rotate who picks the activity. Make it a tradition: "New Thing Saturdays" "Try-It Tuesdays" "Adventure Afternoons" Snap a picture, keep a small journal, or just reflect together after: "What did you like? Would we do it again?" You're not just adding fun to your routine—you're building shared memories that stick. Quick Takeaway: Try This Today Here's your challenge: Ask your daughter one simple question—"What's something new we could try together this week?" Let her brainstorm Offer a few ideas if she's unsure Pick something low-pressure and do it—just for the fun of it And remember—it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be together. Because in the end, trying something new with your daughter isn't really about the activity itself—it's about the space you're creating to grow, laugh, and connect. That's it for today's Dad Connections in 5. If this episode sparked an idea, send it to a fellow dad who's ready to explore new adventures with his daughter. Until next time—keep showing up, keep trying new things, and keep building that lifelong connection.

On the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dustin Lolli, lead singer of the band Sanctus Real, for a candid conversation about what it really means to be a present, engaged dad—especially to daughters at two very different life stages. Throughout the episode, listeners are treated to heartfelt stories, honest admissions of "mistakes," and practical wisdom on raising confident, independent daughters. Fatherhood Across Generations Dustin shares the unique experience of being a father to both a 21-year-old and a 5-year-old daughter. He reflects on the surprises and joys of meeting each child exactly where they are—from encouraging an early love of art and animals in his oldest, to discovering what makes his youngest "tick." The message is clear: there's no manual, and every child truly is unique. What matters most is the willingness to stay curious, adaptable, and humble. Fostering Independence & Stability One powerful theme is the delicate balance between guidance and independence. As Dustin describes, the journey is a "push and pull"—supporting his daughters as they take chances, make mistakes, and hone their passions, while also providing a secure foundation they can always come home to. He espouses the importance of loving consistency over quick fixes, and of letting kids know that stability and support are always present, even as they navigate their own paths. Music, Family, and Finding Passion Music runs deep in the Lolli family, but Dustin is quick to note that he and his wife encourage their children to find their own unique passions, not simply follow in their footsteps. An especially touching moment is Dustin's retelling of recording "Confidence" as a duet with his daughter Arden—not because she wanted the spotlight, but because it was a special moment to connect and create together. Faith, Hope, and Real-World Parenting With faith at the center of his message, Dustin brings a sense of hopefulness to the challenges of raising kids today, especially when it comes to social media and comparison culture. He emphasizes leading with love, authenticity, and an understanding that parenting is about the child's needs, not the parent's expectations. Why You Should Listen This episode isn't just for dads; it's for anyone who values deep family connections, honest conversations, and real-life stories about learning, loving, and growing together. Tune in to hear Dustin's thoughtful insights and be inspired to show up as the parent your children need—flaws, questions, and all. Ready to be inspired? Listen to the full episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection—you'll come away with wisdom to last a lifetime. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started. Because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]: I am so excited that you're back with us again this week. As always, every week, I love being on this journey with you and I call it a journey because the connections that we want to build with our daughters happen daily. But we have to do what we can to learn, to grow, to build stronger connections. And it's not always going to be easy. There's going to be some bumps in the road. You got to be willing to go for the long run, go in for the long haul and make sure that you know that you can ask for help, you can learn from others, and that's what this podcast is all about. Every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that are fathering in different ways, are building those connections in different ways, but they are learning along with their daughters as well, and that is so important. This week we got another great guest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:50]: Dustin Lally is with us and Dustin is the lead singer of Sanctus Real, a band. If you've never heard of it, I'm going to say Google it, but I'll have a link in the notes today. But definitely it is a band that's been around for over 30 years. Amazing music. We're going to talk a little bit about his music as well, but he's a father of four and he's got two daughters. He's got a 21 year old daughter and a five year old daughter. So we got both ends of the spectrum and we're going to talk about that journey that he's been on to be able to build those strong connections with his own daughter. And I'm really excited to have him here today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]: Dustin, thanks so much for being here. Dustin Lolli [00:02:24]: Well, thanks for having me. This is great. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:27]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here. And as I said, building those relationships takes time. It takes effort. And you know, I think as you think about both your daughters and as I said, they're at two ends of the spectrum in regards to where they are in life. What's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughters and what made it so special? Dustin Lolli [00:02:51]: I think I've always had, you know, our oldest daughter is a firstborn. So the first four years she was just with us. And so there's, there was a lot of connecting time there, right? Like, and I was young, I mean, I was 21 when we got married. My wife got pregnant three months after we got married. So her birthday is two days from our first year anniversary. So I was a kid, right? Like having a child and not only having a child, having a girl child for a 21 year old boy, you know that you have these, these moments and I, I just, I just fell in love immediately. But you have so much, Obviously when you're 21, you really have so much to learn. And I think what I noticed first off, like one of the first meaningful moments where I was like, okay, this is a unique child, like a unique person, right? This isn't, I don't know what it is. Dustin Lolli [00:03:40]: When you're young, you're like, everything is going to fit into almost like a movie. You're right, like you, you're making the steps of your life and then the first plot twist happens and it's like, oh, I gotta deal with this. But my daughter, from an early age, she loved to go out and draw. And it was like amazing at an early age. And she had a great vocabulary. She'd be talking early and one day she's drawing and she drew a shark and a seal and the shark was eating the seal and she drew blood everywhere. This is a girl, a little baby girl. She's like 4 years old and I'm 5 years old maybe and, and I'm like, what is that? And she said she was watching the Discovery Channel and saw Shark Week, right? I remember this feeling of like, this is a sweet baby girl, but she also loves, loves this other nature and animals and art. Dustin Lolli [00:04:31]: And it was, I know it doesn't sound like much, but for me I was sitting there going, I've got a lot to learn about this and helping her see these things. And I loved it. But you're looking at it from a perspective of, I thought it was going to be this sweet, dainty little thing. And here she's drawing blood coming out of a seal, right? Like, oh. And she still Works with animals, right? This is. She's had this love for animals, and she was like, just real little, and she. Now she works with dogs, and she works and she draws, and it's amazing. So that little moment with just me and we're looking at this thing, I was like, okay, this. Dustin Lolli [00:05:04]: I got a lot to learn about my own daughter. And so we started doing things more with animals. And, like, she started learning about animals, and we took her to. She has a really great picture where they had a live wolf. She got to take pictures, like, actual pictures with the wolf. And so just those moments to start with her were just. I found her loves, right? Her interests and her mom. We just found what she loved, and we really are. Dustin Lolli [00:05:29]: What we really wanted to do from the beginning was. Was encourage her to do the things that she loved. And part of our. Even our schooling that we gave her was art, and we wanted her to learn with passion. That moment, though, stands out because it was like a turning point for me, right? Like, I was like, okay, I gotta change my thinking to, this is a real human being. This isn't. This isn't just out of a movie. This is a girl who' to develop and develop her own passions and develop her own things. Dustin Lolli [00:05:55]: And I'm a guy, and I have no idea what any of that looks like. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:58]: So now you also have a daughter that's five and two other kids along with your other daughter. So I guess now with having a daughter at the other end of the spectrum, and you have an adult daughter now, how are you taking what you learned from your firstborn in building that relationship with your youngest as well? Dustin Lolli [00:06:23]: It's funny because I think it's two things psychologically. It's not just, hey, I get to learn from her. It's that I'm older anyway. Like, I see the world differently. There's a lot of experience with having four, and they're all very distinct personalities and different people. And so I think for me, it's. It's not just, hey, thinking back to how my oldest name is Arden. It's not just thinking back to that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:45]: It's. Dustin Lolli [00:06:45]: It's kind of taking the sum of all of this experience and going, what this girl? And of course, she's in a different place again because my youngest, her next closest sibling, is 14, so she's kind of an only child at this age, too. So we're looking at it from a perspective again of we want her to be healthy emotionally, we want her to be healthy mentally. And there are so many things now in Life that will from screens and to all of this stuff that are going to try to take some of that away from her that we're learning and we're doing our best to have a balanced, balanced life. And we learned that with Arden. The problem with Arden was, you know, you have these kids who are easy. And I thought I was a great parent with her because she was intelligent early on, she was emotionally very chill. And of course there was always something she wasn't perfect. But I always thought, man, I must be a good parent. Dustin Lolli [00:07:39]: And then the next ones come along and it's, you know, they're boys, so they're different. But even so, you're like, okay, maybe every kid is unique and different. And I think that kind of experience or now it's like we're looking at our, our youngest and she is full of life, the baby to a T. She is loud and fun and dramatic and all of these things. And I think for us, in a lot of ways it's like every child of ours has been different and unique and our job is to love them the best way that we know how. And we've learned that with our other kids. There's no formula to it. There's no point A to point B. Dustin Lolli [00:08:14]: If you do this, this, this and this, it's going to be perfect. Because all our kids have different genetic makeup. And I don't mean like mother, dad, I just mean like they were born different, they think differently, they feel differently. And so as a parent, especially with this one, we're just trying to find, okay, what makes her tick and what makes her thrive. And she is the most fun little five year old you'll ever come across. It's incredible. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:37]: You mentioned the fact that some of the things that you did with Arden to help her to real of the passions that she had. And I guess as you think about in raising her to where she is today, how did you balance guiding her while also giving her the independence to becoming her own person? Dustin Lolli [00:08:58]: I think probably a lot of mistakes, you know. No, it's a great question. I think it's still a question that's in process for us. I mean, she's 21. Even now you're like, you still want to protect, but then you also know you can't, you have to let go in a lot of ways. She just came to us and she wants to go to Ireland with a group and she'd have to fly by herself. And the dad and me is like, oh, I don't know. And then you go, but she's 21, and we've never really tried to keep her from anything. Dustin Lolli [00:09:27]: But as a dad, there's this safety thing, which there's all of these things that you're like, I'm supposed to protect her. I'm supposed to do all this. So as they get older, that with a girl is so much harder to let go of. Like my boys, I'm like, whatever, just go, man up, do the thing. Which good or not, it's just a natural process. I don't even think of it other than it's a natural thing. I would have wanted my dad to do that when I was 18, like, go mess up a few times. But the girl, that's hard because however, genetically we're inclined to be this way. Dustin Lolli [00:09:56]: So my wife helps a lot with that. You know, we have a very balanced relationship. She is a girl, and I know this is dad. Daughter is hard because you don't understand, like, what they feel, what she's going through. And so I rely on her a lot for a lot of the emotional things. And I hope we've always tried to make a good team with it, but I think you have to over. Over the. From the time she's been 16 and on, it has been a tug of war and a push and pull of Arden, you have to prepare for the future. Dustin Lolli [00:10:25]: You have to do the things it takes to be a successful person without mom and dad, while at the same time saying, arden, we are your safety net right now. You can make mistakes. You have a stable home, you have a stable place. And if you go out there and fail, even now, we tell her this all the time. This is your time to take chances. This is your time to go seek out this art, go do this thing and build your future. But just know that if it doesn't work out, you have a stable landing ground right now. And so it is. Dustin Lolli [00:10:56]: It's a push and pull of like, we're here, stability's here. But because you have a foundation, you can go take risks, you can go do those things, and we're all for it, and we'll support you in anything. Obviously, I'm in music. My daughter has a great voice. She's beautiful voice, but she doesn't want to sing. And so it's like those balancing moments where you're like, I can offer you these opportunities because of what I do. And she's saying, but that's not my heart. Those are the things we work through, and those are the things, okay, so what is your passion? What do you want to do. Dustin Lolli [00:11:24]: And it's a tug of war always inside of me now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:26]: You talked about, and you kind of joked about it, that you probably made some mistakes. And all of us make mistakes. I mean, we are not perfect. There's no manual to how you raise a kid. And I guess as you think about those mistakes, what's a mistake that you made as a father and what did it. What did you learn from it about fostering positive communication? Dustin Lolli [00:11:49]: I use the word mistake. I kind of did say it as a joke. I think sometimes I look at people and say, you only know when you made a mistake because we know what the right thing was. And so it's our weight, it's our judge. So the truth is, I don't know how many mistakes I've made because I don't know always what the right thing was. So you're just doing your best. And so you look back and go, maybe if I had done it this way, it would have gone better. But hindsight's 20 20. Dustin Lolli [00:12:13]: It's hard to deal with that. You just learn to grow from it. With my daughter, you think of girls and you think of emotions. You think of it. My daughter is a very stable, quiet, emotional person. She feels things strongly, but she doesn't always show them. And as a guy, you have these stereotypical wrong things. This is part of. Dustin Lolli [00:12:31]: As a young man, you have a daughter and you realize, okay, she's not a stereotype. She's a person. And she has her feelings, but she also has strong here. And I think without taking the time and having the humility to learn what it is that makes her tick, you can just jump the gun on stuff, and you can just plow right into things and go, oh, well, honey, let me tell you how to do this. And I think there were a lot of times where I thought I knew what was right for her, and I thought I knew if I gave her this advice and she did it, but. But after the fact, I go, if she were me, that might have worked, but she's not me. And so in a lot of ways, parenting to me is. There's a checklist for parenting, and I think it's good, but for me, it doesn't work. Dustin Lolli [00:13:11]: Parenting to me is loving your kids the best way possible. And that might be being tough on one at some point and being less tough on another at some point, but it's knowing them, and if you know them well enough, you know how to love them well. And I think the biggest mistakes that I made, I think, were a lot of Times where I was more interested in giving them advice based on my opinion than based on where they were or what her needs were in the time I, like, wanted to be right rather than I wanted to help her. And so I don't think my motive early on as a dad, sometimes I was just doing the best I could. If I had a chance to talk to me, then I would say, you're doing the best you can, but you're doing the best you can for yourself instead of the best you can for your family or for your daughter. There's a lot in there. I could nuance that all day long. I could unpack that all day long. Dustin Lolli [00:13:56]: But I don't always love the word mistakes because I think we create the baseline to judge on now, obviously, for breaking the law or something, but we're creating this baseline of like, well, this is the right thing and if we didn't do it, then you're a failure or it's a mistake. And parenting, I mean, everything might be a mistake because you could probably do everything better at some point. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:14]: You hit the nail on the head there. I think that everybody will second guess, and we are innately programmed to second guess and say, have I done that right? And as men, I've talked about this before, so many men are programmed to be fixers. We walk into a situation, we don't always listen, we don't always hear what our daughters are telling us, but we come in and think, oh, I can fix this. And that's not always what they need. And so one of the best things that someone ever told me, and it was kind of too late for me at the time, but was when you go into a conversation with your daughters, you should let them have the ability to say whether the conversation is a listening or a fixing conversation. Because if it is a listening conversation, you need to turn that part of your brain off that says, I'm trying to fix this for you, and you need to let them struggle with it and just talk through it. But if they say, no, this is a fixing conversation, then you can turn that right back on and truly give them the advice that you're prone to give for your daughters. What's one way that you show your daughters that they can always count on you? Dustin Lolli [00:15:21]: I think that's an earned thing over time. I don't know if there's one action. I think being there over the years, you know, I would say my 21 year old, it's just consistency. I think there's no one action when she's been through hard times, you just, you're there. When she's having her great times, you're there. I love to be able to just tell people, hey, if you do this, it's going to be great. The thing is, your listeners don't even know my family life. I could be the worst dad in the world, pretending here. Dustin Lolli [00:15:48]: And that's okay. To me, life in and of itself is this flow thing where a lot of people love to have step by step things. And I think trust is earned over time, even with your kids. I think love is a daily thing where you're choosing somebody above yourself, especially your kids. And I think you can't be a good parent unless you go into parenting thinking, I'm going to give something up for my children. And I've learned that over the years. And I think I do have a wonderful family life and I do have great kids and. But I think they would even tell you that there's never been a moment. Dustin Lolli [00:16:21]: It's just, it's earned. Over the years, from when she was little, she learned that mom and dad were going to be there and they were going to be our priority. Now, I will say this. One of our early things we decided as a couple was we weren't going to change our lives for our kids. We were going to include our kids in our lives. And so our kids have always had a semblance of this is what mom and dad do and we're a part of it. I've seen a lot of families, they have a child and suddenly their entire life changes. They don't see friends anym, they don't go out anymore. Dustin Lolli [00:16:52]: The kids on a 7pm bedtime. And that can't be deviated from. We didn't do any of that. Now whether that's psychologically right or wrong, we didn't do any of that. We said, okay, we're going to include our baby girl in everything that we do. And so she would come out to eat with us and we were involved in a lot of ministry stuff. So she would go to all of this stuff and sometimes she'd stay up late. And so. Dustin Lolli [00:17:14]: And the reason why I say that is because in a lot of ways our kids, instead of just being the center of attention, they were a part of a family. Arden wasn't a only child. And when she thought, oh, I get everything, she knew she was going to go with mom and dad to everything. She was a part of it. And that was a healthy thing. So answering your question, I think the lifestyle choices and the day to Day. Consistency, love, consistency is what really for, I think, developed our relationship. So it kept it strong when she went to teenage years. Dustin Lolli [00:17:46]: And here's the other thing. My daughter was such a good child. I would have these people say to me all the time, I mean, this became a just wait till she's a teenage. You think you got it good now, but just wait till she's a teenager. They all fall off the road. She's a girl. And you know what? I. My wife and I used to look at each other and be like, that doesn't mean that's going to happen to Arda. Dustin Lolli [00:18:05]: And you know what? It never did. She's always been a consistent. I mean, it's been amazing. She's been the easiest child and, you know, a lot of that's her own thing. But I like to think some of that's just the stability and the fact that she's gone every day knowing how loved she really is. So one moment I couldn't tell you. I think it's a collection and an earning of trust over the years and just the stability and a consistency that it takes unselfish love to get there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:32]: Now, I mentioned at the beginning that you are the lead singer with Sanctus Real. And one of the questions that I had for you because I know that a little while back you. There is a song called Confidence, and it's a powerful song that definitely resonated with many of your fans. More recently, you released an acoustic version of it with your daughter Arden. And what inspired you to create that rendition? And how did involving Arden deepen your connection to the song and the message? Dustin Lolli [00:19:03]: Well, it's crazy because my daughter was 14 years old when we first had her sing on it. And it went something like this. We were doing a radio event and we were making a video and we wanted kids to sing originally instead of me on this video that we were making for this radio event. And the only kid in the room was arden. She was 14. We said, hey, Arden, can you come sing? I had never heard her sing for real. She did not sing out loud. I didn't know if she could sing. Dustin Lolli [00:19:29]: It's kind of crazy. My wife will tell you, like, she just would shy away from singing. But my baby boy, Ian, who was little at the time, he would have been. He would have been like five, would tell us that he wanted Arden to sing him to sleep at night because she had a voice like an angel, which we never heard. So I said, arden, can you sing this? She so didn't want to sing it. We have this video of her singing it. She's got a hoodie on and her, she's like slouched over, over. But when she's saying this sound came out. Dustin Lolli [00:19:58]: And I remember our guitar player Chris looking at me like, whoa, what is happening? So instead of having kids, we just had her voice on it. 14 year old Arden, and we play this radio event, and there's 70 of the biggest radio stations in the country for Christian music in this room. And this video comes on, right? And this voice. And after it was over, I get people coming to us asking who the girl was that sang our song. And they're handing me business cards. And she got record offers at 14, like, hey, when she's ready, let me know. And I'm like, she doesn't even sing. Like, she's never sang in front of people or anything. Dustin Lolli [00:20:36]: And so that's where it started at this thing. That's not what you heard. That was like the first time she's saying this in front of people. But she doesn't love the stage. She doesn't love what she sees as. I don't think that's what I want to do. But there was always this connection to this song through that. And then when we were deciding to do this acoustic version and I was like, baby girl, people love that. Dustin Lolli [00:20:57]: And I would love to do a duet. Like, so could this just be the one time you do it right? And she agreed to it and we did a video of it and it, you know, it's funny because we put that out and we still get people in comments who are like, who's this Arden artist? Where do I find her music? How do I listen to her? I'm like, that's it? That's all you got? But I love, you know, she still sings around the. I mean, her voice is special. And this is one of those things as a dad where you're like, I'm hoping that at some point she goes, I love to sing. I want to do this. And then I could bring her into so much more. But until then, I just got this one special moment with her, and it is special. And I, you know, again, I'm always like, your first time singing on video and you might have a half a million views, it's your only video you've ever done, you're pretty successful, you should probably do it again. Dustin Lolli [00:21:48]: So we're still working on it. I'm gonna get her back on there. My other daughter, by the way, you won't have a problem. She'll probably want to sing on. So she's five and she has no fear and no, she wants the stage. So that should be fun. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:00]: I know that you as being the lead singer of this band, your band is definitely touring. You're spending a lot of time on the road. How do you navigate the balance between touring with Sanctus Real and being present in your children's daily lives? Dustin Lolli [00:22:17]: I have four our guitar players for there's three of us that, that are the band and we have 11 kids between us and we've all been married a good amount of time. Healthy, healthy marriages, healthy relationships. You don't do this, you don't do what we do in a healthy way unless your family are your partners in it. And one of the things about being around for as long as we are, we can control our touring. And so there are seasons where we're gone quite a bit. But I always tell people this, I always say we're actually home more than most people. Most people have have nine to five jobs, they're gone or more. They're gone eight, 10 hours a day and then they come home and they're tired and they're worn out and you know, it's hard. Dustin Lolli [00:22:57]: That's hard. And I don't ever want anyone ever. People ask us how we do it and I'm always like, I watch my dad get up at 4 in the morning for 30 years and work and be exhausted. I have a great life and a great job. And yes, it's, it's challenging sometimes it is, but every job is. So when I come home, here's why I say that is when we're home or home, I write songs for people. So I might go for a couple hours a day here and there. But when I come home, unlike most jobs, I'm home. Dustin Lolli [00:23:23]: I don't have anything else to do, I'm home. And what we normally try to do is play three days a week and be home for. And some seasons we'll have a bigger tour and we'll be gone more but then we have a lot of time off so I might be home for a month straight. So it's really just navigating these seasons and, and my wife gets used to it, she has a rhythm. When I'm gone, my older kids, it's normal life. But dad's here all the time. Time dad's home, it gets to do stuff like I've helped coach my kids baseball team. It's a little harder on the five year old and sometimes being home a lot is even harder for her because I'll be home for a month and then I'm gone for two weeks. Dustin Lolli [00:24:00]: And she doesn't know what to do with that because she got into a routine. But we work through all of that and she's, you know, she's actually been on the road now that we're older too. My wife will come on the road sometimes and take her with like she's been on the road with us a few times. So we try to include. We're such a family based band now, now that our goal is to include our family. My son works for us, our drummer son works for us. So we do our best and our families are partners in what we do. They get it. Dustin Lolli [00:24:27]: It's our jobs too. So dad has to have a job and we just try to include him as much as we can, like we did with Arden in that video. I mean, that's part of that. We're going to include our families. I think one of the coolest parts about what I do for a living is not just what I do, but talking about this thing is it's actually had open doors for my kids in the future too. Like my one son plays guitar, loves it. I get to offer my kids something that I never had. And that's an avenue in music if they want to. Dustin Lolli [00:24:54]: It's connections in music if they want to. And so far they, they have, they want to jump in and so it's great. So it works well for us because we're very, very aware of it. Like our families are our number one priorities and we all know that. And so if you know that, then you're going to build your tour around it, you're going to build your career around it. And so we maintain that balance. We work really hard to keep that balance. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:17]: You know, I know that a lot of your music touches on themes of faith and perseverance. How do you incorporate those themes into your parenting? And do your kids influence the messages you choose to convey through your songs? Dustin Lolli [00:25:32]: I think so. I think I am a big believer in hope. We are a Christian band in the sense of like, that's our message of hope. And I look at the world today and just see a lot of people lacking, honestly, just hope. Regardless of what the situations, regardless of all the other stuff. It's just we travel and we talk to people and you're talking about our songs. And we hear so many stories about how our songs impact people because we try to put these messages of hope into them. But we also hear over and over again just the hopelessness that People deal with on a day to day basis. Dustin Lolli [00:26:04]: And that's the world that we're raising our kids in. Social media, this is comparison. And it's all of these things that your kids are dealing with that I never had. This generation is dealing with things that even I never had to deal with, which is really, it's like the first time that we are going to have to study something that's never really been done, like kids and their screens and their social media. The influence of all of this information coming at us all the time. I tell my kids all the time, just turn your screens off for a week and you won't even know what's happening. And your world is so good and it feels so bad because you are being inundated with information constantly. And we need to know what's going on out there. Dustin Lolli [00:26:43]: Again, this, this balance, but it does, it impacts a lot of what I write about, a lot of what I'm passionate about. I believe in doing the right thing in every situation as best as we can. I believe in love. I believe that, you know, I don't think anybody's a robot. And so therefore we come into situations with people and we prescribe methods of healing, but we're also different. And so for me, even with my kids, it's. I don't ever want to get into the know it all way of saying, hey, this is how you fix it. Right? I think we're all created differently. Dustin Lolli [00:27:20]: Different likes, different tastes, different intelligences, different things. And until we know what those things look like, it's hard to even give advice to people to say, hey, do this thing. Because that advice could be dangerous for somebody who doesn't think or feel the same way that you do. And so I take all that into account, you know, with my kids. And then even with our message, like how do we give a message to people that is, is hopeful and a blessing rather than painful and a curse, basically, right? And I think it's my worldview. Like my worldview doesn't change whether it's looking at my kids or whether it's looking at my career or whether it's looking at our music, right? It's, it's my worldview. And for me, I'm a Christian, so my worldview comes from that. So it impacts every part of what I do and what I think. Dustin Lolli [00:28:05]: And if it didn't, then I, it'd be hard to say this is who I am or this is what I believe. So I don't separate those things. I don't separate family from music or music from career. All of those things are made up from the worldview of that I believe love and loving people. Well, and you win. I think I'm a good dad, not because I know what I'm doing, but because I love my kids enough to try to steer them to what is healthy and whole and balanced and find that. And I think that that's always worked for me through my whole life. I've always felt like the best things that have ever happened in my life are because I chose to do the right thing in the hardest moments. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:40]: Now, I know you just mentioned a few minutes ago that your BO are interested in the music industry and they've shown interest in music and kind of the business side and playing as well. Sometimes, you know, with artists and families, sometimes people would say, stay away from it. I've dealt with this. I've been this don't do what I've done. You kind of said, you know, I'm going to help them. I'm going to do what I can to be able to do that. So how do you nurture their creativity while guiding them through the challenges that you've had in your own life in the industry? Dustin Lolli [00:29:10]: Industry awareness. I always say there's two types of people in the music business. There's the artist and there's the people who make money from the artist. And you have to understand that. And I'm not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing, that's why it's a music business. But when you are healthy and aware that this is what's happening around you, you can create and do things and love what you do. But you also aren't going to get heartbroken because somebody betrayed you. Even though what they really did was they chased the money. Dustin Lolli [00:29:37]: Money. Artists are just creative and ethereal and raw that we tend to take everything. Now, I'm not really that way, as you probably tell, but they tend to take everything personally or it just is a blow to their self esteem. But the reality is they're not turning their back on you. They're turning their face toward money. That's usually what it is. If you can't make them money, they're going to go somewhere that can because that's the business. Which is funny because I say that it sounds so bad, but I actually don't think it's that bad. Dustin Lolli [00:30:04]: I just think it's the reality that we have to to deal with. And most people aren't aware enough of it to do it in a healthy way. But my kids, that's one of the beauties is that they've got somebody who's going before them that can help them see and walk through that, because it is about staying in a healthy place. All we do is put sounds in the air and hope people like them. There's nothing too artsy fartsy about me, and you probably never had anybody say that on your podcast, but to me, it's like, this is what I do. This is what I've been blessed with, the gift to do, to be able to sing. And I try to instill that with my kids. Don't get too, too arrogant about anything. Dustin Lolli [00:30:35]: This just happens to be the thing that you're good at. And if you're good enough at it, people will pay you to do it. And if you're good enough to have people pay you to do it, then you're good enough to have people try to take money from you to do it. And so you have to understand the way the world works around you and be healthy and whole. And just knowing that I'm there to help guide them through that is why I'm like, hey, if you love music and you want to do this for a living, it's a great job. You just have to be aware of the pitfalls, that's all. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:58]: Now, I know that, that you and your wife Sarah perform together as a folk duo as well, and the group name is this Way Home. How has collaborating musically with Sarah impacted your family dynamics and your approach to parenting? Dustin Lolli [00:31:12]: It's the best. It's awesome. If you listen to those songs, those songs probably reflect our family life. These songs, let's Get Old Together, they're cute. Not trying to be cheesy, they're just cute. These are how we treat each other and how we love each other and all that kind of stuff. And our kids have seen that, and they know our family life. And my daughter says, I love it because it's real, it's you, and it's our way of kind of expressing. Dustin Lolli [00:31:33]: And Sarah's great singer. We did it before the band, and we're just now starting it back up again. And our kids love it because I think they see mom and dad at their most happy. But it is us. It's how we are at home, our banter. And I think in a lot of ways, when people see that, they get an actual view of how we are at home, which everyone wonders. How people are at home. Well, that's kind of how we are at home. Dustin Lolli [00:31:55]: I mean, our kids are. And, you know, our son played with us the last time we went out. So it's again, more family based thing. So it's my favorite thing. It's folk music, it's easy to write. It's my side project that's just my release. And it reflects, I mean, you hear the songs, it reflects our worldview, it reflects kind of our family and what our core is. So yeah, go check that out. Dustin Lolli [00:32:16]: I'd actually love when people check that out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:18]: We'll definitely put a link over to it. And reflecting on your journey, what lessons from your own upbringing did you. You strive to pass on to your kids, both in life and through your music? Dustin Lolli [00:32:31]: A lot. My parents divorced when I was 3. My mom remarried, so I've had a stepdad and then my dad remarried. So my family is very scattered. It was hard, but it was probably the most healthy thing it could be in an unhealthy situation. But there was a lot of other things, so it wasn't optimal. And I think part of that for me has always been I would never want my kids to go through that. So I wanted to break those chains of consistent. Dustin Lolli [00:32:52]: And so my kids, kids see even now in talking to me, they see, wow, Dad's life was a lot different. They talked to me about my family life growing up. I love it. I have so many good memories, but it was very different. There was a lot of times where I'd be waiting, hoping my dad showed up to pick me up and whether or he just couldn't do it. And I still remember the sadness. I had stepbrothers who went through a lot of hard stuff. And I watched it all and. Dustin Lolli [00:33:16]: And I think for me it was like. More than anything else in my life, I want to know that I gave my kids a chance, a stable chance. I want them to know that they can try to do crazy things. If they want to be musicians or they want to be artists, they can do it because they know that there's a baseline of foundation that they can fall back into, take risks, do crazy things. That's okay because you have a mom and dad who care enough and we're there to support you through it all. And they've been healthy. I mean, it's been good. But I think more than anything for me, I wanted my kids to have a stability that I never really had, that I never felt a dad, honestly. Dustin Lolli [00:33:50]: And I have a great dad. If he hears this, he's great dad. But it's different, right? It's different. I didn't ever want my kids to go through that kind of separation and that kind of fear that we went through when we were little. And even now, like I said, they see the difference. They see the dynamics. They see stories that I tell. And they're old enough now to understand that it's meaningful to have a mom and dad who have stayed together for 22 years and who show that they love each other every day. Dustin Lolli [00:34:14]: I mean, that's meaningful. That's something that is driven with my family life a lot. I just want my kids to see stability. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:20]: We always finish our interviews with what I like to call the dad connect section. 6. So six more questions that delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? Dustin Lolli [00:34:28]: Okay. Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:29]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Dustin Lolli [00:34:34]: Eclectic. I wanted to say something easy, like healthy or stable, but I think my daughters love that we do creative things a lot and our conversations are eclectic on purpose and just. I think my oldest daughter would love that. I think she'd love that I just said the word eclectic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:49]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Dustin Lolli [00:34:54]: Love your wife. Well, you'll be a good dad if you love your wife. I think that was something that you don't correlate when you're young and getting, you know, you're about to enter dadhood. But the stronger your relationship with your wife is, the stronger your relationship with your daughters is. That's what I feel like. And I love that advice. And that may not work for everybody. You might have hard hardships, but that was for me. Dustin Lolli [00:35:15]: That was a big thing for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:16]: What's one activity that you and your daughters like doing together? Dustin Lolli [00:35:20]: My oldest one's watching movies. Movies. We both love kung fu and we love just action movies, which is interesting. Again, she's great, and so that's something she always wants. If there's a new martial arts movie out, she'll just be like, dad, we got a new one. And we'll sit down and watch and make jokes about it the whole movie. We talk all the time about various things. She loves video, and so she's always. Dustin Lolli [00:35:42]: She wants to be a voice actor, which is great. She's a cool voice. And so she's always talking about arts. And since I'm in music, you know, I have some unique perspectives on what she loves the little one right now. I get to be the male doll in whatever game she's formulating. Come, dad, let's play. Here. I've got a boy doll here. Dustin Lolli [00:35:59]: It's yours. Okay, thanks, baby. Then I just Watch her play. Basically, it's great. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:03]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Dustin Lolli [00:36:08]: Oh, man. I would say take chances. Not security chances. As a dad, like, I don't, but don't be afraid to fail. Don't be afraid to fail. And don't. That's always been the one thing I've said to my oldest daughter. A lot is just, just life is meant to be lived. Dustin Lolli [00:36:22]: So if you, the more balanced you are, the less fearful you are of taking a chance. So do that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:27]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Dustin Lolli [00:36:31]: That I don't know anything. And if I did, it's not for the right reasons. And I think just as I'm getting older, motivation's everything. Our motives and what, why we do what we do is more important than what we do in the first place. And I think early on it was like everything was I was doing was trying to prove that I was a good dad instead of actually trying to be a good dad dad. And so I, I think for that it's just open. Have an open mind with your kids. They're all different and they all respond differently. Dustin Lolli [00:36:59]: And as I've gotten older, I just realized the less I know, sometimes the better off I am. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:03]: Finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build the lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Dustin Lolli [00:37:10]: Love them. Well, I could come up with something like, real deep and be like, hey, do this checklist. But I just don't think that works. Your daughters are your daughters and they are their own own unique people and personalities. And you have to know what makes. You have to know that. You have to get to know them well enough to know how to love them well. There has to be a connecting point on a human level. Dustin Lolli [00:37:30]: And it's not just a dad daughter relationship. It's you showing that you're going to be there forever regardless. And that's earned again, I think that's earned over the course of years where you love them well, you treat them well, you support them well, you learn about them, you show interest in their interest, interests, and ultimately you just be the stable force that they need. And because ultimately it's not about us. It's not about us dads. I think the healthiest thing we can think about is it's not about us in the relationship. It's they're the child. It's about us supporting them. Dustin Lolli [00:38:04]: And so I think there has to be an unselfishness to it that A lot of us don't want to give up. We don't want to give up us. And you don't have to give up all of you. But trust me when I say day, you'll be happier when you start making it about your kid rather than about you. And you'll find freedom in that. And so I would say to them, if you find yourself doing it because you want something, you need to change that. That's. That's where it needs a change. Dustin Lolli [00:38:27]: It can't be about you. It has to be about her and has to be about her future and her relationship and her stability. And I promise you, when you do that, you'll be rewarded as well. Like, not all sacrifice, you'll be rewarded as well. Well, it's the way it's supposed to be. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:42]: Well, Dustin, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your time today, for sharing your own journey. If people want to find out more about you, about the band, where should they go? Dustin Lolli [00:38:51]: They can go to sanctusreal.com any of the social media things. We're kind of everywhere. If you Google it, you'll see all the links. Music's on YouTube. It's kind of everywhere. All you gotta do is look it up. This way home. Same thing. Dustin Lolli [00:39:02]: I mean, we're on Spotify primarily. We don't treat that as like this big thing that we're promoting and all that kind of stuff. That's kind of our own little thing. Thing. So, yeah, I just google it this way home and sanct this real well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: Dustin, I truly appreciate your time today. Thank you for sharing everything that you've shared and I wish you all the best. Dustin Lolli [00:39:20]: I thank you. Appreciate it. You guys are great. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:22]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and daughter connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:39:53]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny, screaming past messengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.