The Liberty & Slavery Podcast

Documentary creators A. Troy Thomas and Christopher Marshall sit down to recount their reflections on the making of the “Liberty & Slavery” documentary.  Along the way, they discuss their most fascinating interviews, favorite locations and most surprising discoveries.

Thomas Kidd discusses America's Founding Era including its Biblical views, the US Constitution's ratification and chattel slavery. Kidd is a Research Professor of Church History at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri.

Thomas Kidd discusses America's Founding Era including its Biblical views, the US Constitution's ratification and chattel slavery. Kidd is a Research Professor of Church History at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri.

Pastor Leonce Crump discusses the intersection of race and religion with director A. Troy Thomas in this episode.Leonce is the Lead Pastor and co-founder of Renovation Church in Atlanta, GA. He is also the author of “Renovate: Changing Who You Are By Loving Where You Are."

Pastor Tolivar Wills discusses race, religion and slavery with director A. Troy Thomas. Tolivar is the Senior Pastor at Ponce Presbyterian Church in Atlanta, GA, and a graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.

Archaeologist Matt Reeves sits down with A. Troy Thomas to discuss archaeology and restoration at James Madison’s Montpelier. Matt is the Director of Archaeology and Landscape Restoration at the Montpelier Foundation.

Travis Ricketts sits down with A. Troy Thomas to discuss early American history, including the Puritans and the Pilgrims. Travis is a Professor of Politics, Government & History at Bryan College in Dayton, Tennessee.

Pastor Harry Reeder sits down with A. Troy Thomas to discuss the influence of Christianity on the Founding Fathers and Early America. Dr. Harry Reeder was the Senior Pastor at Briarwood Presbyterian Church from 1999-2023.

Historian Alisha M. Cromwell sits down with Director A. Troy Thomas to discuss the role of women in Atlantic slavery.Alisha is an assistant professor of history at Coastal Carolina University with interests in research of the 19th century Atlantic World.

Nicholas Wood joins Director A. Troy Thomas to discuss James Monroe and other Founding Fathers. Nic Wood is an assistant professor of Early American History at Spring Hill College in Mobile, Alabama.

Book Editor and Bible Teacher Jim Reimann discusses the various types of slavery as seen in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament.

Alan Kulikoff discusses Early American crop economics, the slave trade and America's Founding Fathers. Alan Kulikoff is a Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia. His books include: "Tobacco and Slaves: The Development of Southern Cultures in the Chesapeake 1680-1800." 

Kat Imhoff shares her insights on James Madison including his critical leadership in the founding of the United States. Kat Imhoff is the Senior Conservation Fellow at the Piedmont Environmental Council, and formerly the President and CEO of The Montpelier Foundation.

Historian George McDaniel describes the beauty and struggles that took place at Drayton Hall. George W. McDaniel served as the Executive Director of Drayton Hall, a National Trust Historic Site, located in Charleston, South Carolina.

Julian Dangerfield explains his view of the Founding Fathers, and how American slavery still impacts contemporary Black Americans. Dangerfield is the founder of Shalom Outreach and Senior Pastor of Heritage Fellowship Church.

A. Troy Thomas interviews Ken Turner about slavery in the Old Testament and its connection to Early America. Turner is a Professor of Old Testament and Biblical Languages at Taccoa Falls College in Taccoa, Georgia. He was formerly the Program Director of Biblical Studies at Bryan College.

Rich Cooper discusses the economics of American slavery on a growing nation, and how America's Founding Fathers can rightly be praised and condemned for their actions. Rich is currently the President & CEO of the Levine Museum of the New South in Charlotte, NC.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Zac Cunningham about the Walnut Grove Plantation and Charles Moore. Zac was the Director of the Walnut Grove Plantation and Historic Price House, and The Manager of Public Programs at the George Washington Foundation.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Carolyn Davis about her upbringing in Chicago schools, her heritage, and her views on the Founding Fathers and Slavery. Carolyn Davis is a Professor of Business Administration and Economics at Morehouse College.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews David Rutledge, a Professor of History at Furman University. David explores the connection with the Founding Leaders and their Biblical interpretation of slavery in the Bible.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Catherine Braxton about her ancestors at Drayton Hall, and the thoughts and memories she has of the place now. Catherine Braxton serves on the Governing Board of the Drayton Hall Preservation Trust.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews author K Carl Smith about Frederick Douglass and his views on the Founding Fathers.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Park Ranger Rick Starr in Independence Hall. Rick discusses the events that took place there, and the Founders who participated.

Director A. Troy Thomas sits down with author, professor and historian H. Robert Baker to discuss the Founding Fathers and their complicated relationship with slavery. Baker explains the influences that shaped the thinking of the men that built America.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Rod Gragg, author of Forged in Faith. Rod discusses the Puritans and Pilgrims seeking religious freedom in the New World, and the impact that the Judeo Christian viewpoint had on the founding documents. 

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Sara Georgini about John Adams, John Quincy Adams and Abigail Adams. Sara discusses the Adams prominent role in the founding of the country, and their relationship with slavery.  Sara Georgini is an American historian, and series editor for The Papers of John Adams at the Adams Papers Editorial Project.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Mary V. Thompson about George Washington. They discuss how Washington's views on slavery changed during his life and the complications he faced trying to free the slaves of Mount Vernon. Mary V. Thompson was a research historian at Mount Vernon, and is now retired and serves as Research Historian Emerita at Mount Vernon.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews the late Carl Westmoreland about Jefferson's view on slavery and its role in the colonies. Carl Westmoreland was the Senior Historian at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. 

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Carter Hudgins, the President and CEO of Drayton Hall.  Hudgens discusses slavery at Drayton Hall Plantation, and slavery's role in the economics of the Colonies.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews David Eltis, the Robert W. Woodruff Professor Emeritus of History at Emory University and the co-developer of slavevoyages.org.  Eltis discusses the Trans-Atlantic slave trade and its impact on the Americas and the Founding Fathers of the United States.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews theologian Walter Brueggemann. Brueggemann offers an interpretation of slavery in the Bible, and discusses the Bibles influence on the Founding Fathers. Brueggemann is currently William Marcellus McPheeters Professor Emeritus of Old Testament at Columbia Theological Seminary.

Today's podcast features Hillsdale College's Assistant Professor and Research Fellow, David Azerrad. Azerrad explains the guiding principles of the Founders, especially in creating the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. He further explains the paradox of liberty and slavery as seen in the personal lives of the Founders. Azerrad was formerly the Director of the Kenneth Simon Center of Principles and Politics at The Heritage Foundation.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Caroline Keinath at Piecefield about John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams, and their impact on forming America.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Christa Dierksheide at Monticello about Thomas Jefferson and his role as a Founding Father and an owner of slaves.

Director A. Troy Thomas sits down with Sara Bon-Harper, Executive Director of James Monroe’s Highland, to discuss many of the contributions of James Monroe. Monroe was the last Founding Father to serve as President, a two time Governor of Virginia, a US Senator, an ambassador to Britain and France, as well as Secretary of State. An accomplished soldier and statesman, Monroe is perhaps best known for issuing the Monroe Doctrine. 

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews historian Richard Beeman.   Richard was the John Walsh Centennial Professor of History at the University of Pennsylvania. He was also the director of the Philadelphia Center for Early American Studies. Richard wrote several books, including "Plain Honest Men: The Making of the American Constitution," and "Our Lives, Our Fortunes, Our Sacred Honor: Americans Choose Independence." This interview was conducted in Media, Pennsylvania in May 2014.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Pulitzer Prize winning author, Joseph Ellis about America's Founding Fathers and slavery.  Ellis argues that we should cease arguing about whether the Founders were heroes or villains, but instead grapple with them as flawed human beings who we can learn from because of their imperfections and what they did well.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews professor Eric Jackson about Colonial America, Slavery and The Founding Fathers.  Eric Jackson is a professor of American History at Northern Kentucky University with over 50 journal publications.  

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews historian and author Edward J. Larson about George Washington's role as a respected leader of the American Revolution and his ownership of slaves at Mount Vernon. 

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews former Director of Education at JamesMadison’s Montpelier, Christian Cotz.  Christian discusses JamesMadison's role in crafting the United States Constitution and hisownership of slaves at his family's large Virginia plantation,Montpelier.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews the 2006 Social Studies Teacher of the Year, India Meissel.  She discusses European colonization of North America,  the history of slavery in the New World before and after the American Revolution as well as the Founding Fathers' complicated relationship with slavery.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews author and historian Jon Kukla about Patrick Henry.  Perhaps best known for his "Liberty or Death" speech at St. John's Church, Patrick Henry was also an American founder who owned slaves.  Jon Kukla discusses the nuances of this seeming contradiction.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews Lonnie Bunch, Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution and the first African American and first historian to serve as head of the Smithsonian.  He was also the founding director of the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture (NMAAHC). In this episode, Lonnie discusses the museum as well as slavery during the Founding Era and his thoughts as a historian on the Founders. 

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews the president and CEO of George Washington's Mount Vernon, Doug Bradburn.  Doug discusses the complexities of liberty and slavery in the founding era of the United States and how the views of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson changed throughout their lives.  For more information on the award-winning documentary, Liberty & Slavery: The Paradox of America's Founding Fathers, visit our website.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews historian and author, Henry Wiencek about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.  Both founders' views on slavery seemed to change throughout their lives.   Listen to find out how. For more information on the award-winning documentary, Liberty & Slavery: The Paradox of America's Founding Fathers, visit our website.

Director A. Troy Thomas interviews historians, authors, theologians and other experts about the founding of the United States of America and the paradox of liberty and slavery.Each episode will feature an extended interview conducted for the documentary film, Liberty & Slavery: The Paradox of America's Founding FathersFor more information visit our website.Revolutionary America was a place of extraordinary paradox. America's Founding Fathers were men yearning for a nation of individual liberty and unprecedented independence.  But, the origins of America were already overflowing with a deep-seated and cruel paradox. On one hand the Founding Fathers were rallying the colonists to liberty, while on the other hand they were active participants in the barbaric institution of chattel slavery. Indeed, the Founding Fathers were simultaneously promoting both liberty....and slavery. Watch as our documentary investigates the complex characters of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Samuel Adams, among others. Discover the plantation slaves' world of Jefferson's Monticello and Washington's Mount Vernon. Listen and learn as "Liberty and Slavery" sits down for in-depth conversations with historians, theologians, and award-winning professors, all to explore Revolutionary America's most glorious victories, and indeed their most heinous sins.