The Naked Librarian

Your body has a 28-day cycle. The fitness industry has a 7-day plan. Guess which one wins? That's just one of the questions we explore in this very special episode of The Naked Librarian. And if you're like, "she always says that," listen, Linda, this time it's for real. Here's the deal: I recorded most of these interviews almost two years ago. Then life happened—a full-time job I love, a memoir demanding to be written—and these conversations sat on my hard drive, unheard. When I finally listened back, I discovered something: beneath all the talk about hormones and heart health and movement and stress, every conversation was really about the stories we tell ourselves. About aging. About what our bodies can and can't do. About who gets to be the authority on our own experience. So at the end of 2025, I was like, damnit, I'm bringing their wisdom to the world. And here it is: eight wellness experts reveal what midlife women actually need to know—how to train with your hormones instead of against them, why "caregiver stress syndrome" is real (and you probably have it), what your cholesterol numbers actually mean, and how to grieve the person you used to be while becoming who you're meant to be next. From a mediator who teaches families to fight better, to a cardiologist who explains your lab work in plain English, to an energy healer who says it's okay to mourn your old career—these aren't your typical wellness tips. Consider this your permission slip to stop following advice designed for someone else's body and someone else's life. This is the conversation your body's been waiting for you to have. A few more things: Thank you to my guests—who trusted me with their time and expertise. I am so grateful. Before the transcript, you'll find a list of contributors and ways to follow up with them. Also, big thanks to the musical duo Russo & Weinberg for their tune 'Take Me Out' featured in this episode. Podcast Interviews! *These timestamps are close to the actual time stamps. The podcast went through a second edit after I rerecorded due to some audio wobbles.* Hard Family Conversations with Elizabeth Franz: 6:56 Movement & Moon Cycles with Jana Barrett: 28:27 Movement & Menopause with Dr. Maria Luque: 43:22 Keeping Your Heart Healthy with Dr G the NP: 54:51 Talking Caregiver Stress Syndrome with Dr Soma Mandal: 1:07:29 Emotional Eating Conversation with Jeff Spitzer: 1:24:18 Grieving Yourself with Gina Marie Leingang: 1:37:29 Transcendence & Meaning with Justin McSweeney: 1:51:33. Elizabeth Franz: https://humanzmediate.com/ Jana Barrett: https://www.instagram.com/jana_movement_coach/ jana-barrett.com Dr. Maria Luque: https://www.instagram.com/drmarialuque/ https://www.drmarialuque.com/ Dr. Tranise Goodlow: https://drgthenp.com/ https://www.instagram.com/drgthenp/ Dr. Soma Mandal: https://www.somamandalmd.com/ https://www.instagram.com/drsomamandalmd/ Jeff Spitzer: https://www.facebook.com/jeffspitzer1970 https://courses.myh3h.com/ Gina Maria Leingang: https://www.magicbydesignhd.com/ https://www.instagram.com/magicbydesign_hd/ Justin McSweeney: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoobO-TWsWR3YHmj7YgjBIQ Russo & Weinberg: https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/artist/russo--weinberg/401 Speaker 1 (00:00:07): We are going to start today with some deep thoughts. Ready? What if your need for meaning and transcendence isn't a luxury but as essential to your wellbeing, sleep, food or connection? What if the problem isn't that you're not trying hard enough but you're listening to advice designed for someone else's body, someone else's life? These are just two of the questions we'll explore in this very special episode of The Naked Librarian. And if you're like, she always says that, listen, Linda, this time it's for real, and if you don't believe me, give me two more minutes to explain because I've got a little announcement for you if you're new here. Oh, hi, I'm Victoria Payne, a writer, story coach and guided autobiography instructor and your host of the Naked Librarian. Also, while there's technically no nudity involved in the show, it's just a fun metaphor for honest, nerdy conversation. (00:01:01): I am about to get a little naked or a little naked, as they say in my home state of Georgia. I need to be honest with you. I recorded most of these interviews almost two years ago and then life happened. I took a full-time job that I love, doubled down on writing a memoir, and suddenly this podcast that had been so central to my creative life got pushed to the side and I felt just awful because I had talked to these really cool people who had given me their time and expertise. So at the end of 2025, I was like, damnit, I don't care if I have to work every weekend for the next two months, I will bring their wisdom to the world, and that's what I have done. But also as I've been preparing to relaunch the show, I went back through these conversations with these wellness experts from around the world, doctors, trainers, healers, deep thinkers, and I realized something I had the makings of a healthy feast, like the kind you share with your girlfriends, sampling lots of little salads and nourishing bites, and you leave feeling full, but in a good way, in a way that makes you feel glad you're alive and you think Next time I do this, I'm inviting everyone I know because they have got to try Sarah's homemade hummus and Allison's cheddar, jalapeno sourdough, and Brooks three ingredient peanut butter cookies. (00:02:22): Okay, maybe that's just how us extroverts think, but listen, it doesn't matter, extrovert, introvert, or something in between. You get to have it all because if you're still following my metaphor, we are having our own little dinner party on today's show and you can't beat the conversation. We're going to talk about all the stuff caring for aging parents and ourselves, the roots of emotional eating, grieving our past selves, our need for awe, having hard and productive conversations with our grown kids working out in midlife and more. Now whether these conversations focused on nutrition or stress or something else, as I listened back, I noticed how often the topics were really about the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves, about aging, about what our bodies can and can't do about who gets to be the authority on our own experience about what gives life meaning. So here's the big announcement. (00:03:22): That's where this podcast is headed next. Not today, of course we have a party to get to, but give me a hot second to tell you about next season. We're going all in on stories because after three years of doing this, here's what I realized. Anyone can share health and wellness tips, but if I wanted to really share what I know most about in this world, what I live and breathe and alligator wrestle with, it would be telling stories and what we learned about ourselves when we do. So in the next season of The Naked Librarian, you're going to hear from moth storytellers, memoir, writers, and everyday people who have shared something true, whether that was on a stage in a writing class or across the kitchen table, they'll be sharing a true story that you've never heard, and I'll be asking them what they learned about themselves in the creative process of telling it, because there's something so powerful about sharing your story. (00:04:19): You can write forever in your journal about your life, and I really hope you do that, but the moment you decide to say it out loud to share it with an audience or even a friend, you understand that in order for your story to make sense to others, it must first make sense to you. And that sense making journey can in big and small ways change your life. And because I'm in the midst of writing my own memoir about what we give up in order to be good and why we need it back stat, I'll be sharing some of my own stories and what I'm learning about myself in real time. But first, let's dig into these conversations. The first one is the longest because, well, I went to look for the best part and there were just too many good ones. So it is around 20 minutes after that we get into a groove with conversation highlights between 10 and 15 minutes. (00:05:15): Little truth nuggets, you can heat up whenever you need some nourishment. Check the show notes for the timestamps for each conversation if you'd rather sample the buffet rather than stay for the whole party know judgment. Here's a quick rundown of the menu up first is a mediator who helps families navigate hard conversations. Then a conversation about building a movement practice based on a monthly schedule or a moon cycle instead of a weekly one because surprise women's bodies are in fact different from men. After that, you're going to hear more about movement and midlife from a menopause expert who says It's better to do what you love than follow the latest workout trend. We will hopscotch from there to talk with an internist about caregiver stress syndrome and the importance of taking care of yourself during this exhausting season of life where you might be caring for aging parents and children at the same time. (00:06:09): Then we'll talk about heart health with a board certified cardiology nurse practitioner who breaks down what those cholesterol numbers really mean, using my own cholesterol numbers, a little case study I created for you, but also for me. Then it's time to talk to a health coach about emotional eating and willpower and why you're wanting that comfort food anyway. And right at the end, you're going to hear about the importance of grieving your past self as you grow into someone new with an intuitive of energy healer. And our last expert brings it home with a philosophical conversation about the importance of awe and meaning-making in our lives. Are you hungry? Good. Let's go meet our guests. (00:06:56): First up is Elizabeth Franz and she is the founder of Humans Mediate and a professional mediator who studied peace studies at Gouger College. In this segment, Elizabeth tackles one of the most common yet unspoken stressors and midlife navigating conflict with adult children who've moved back home. She explains how American culture teaches us to approach conflict through punishment and power dynamics rather than collaboration. And contrast this to the Dutch practice of asking even babies for consent before changing their diapers through a real world example of a parent struggling with adult daughter's messiness, rent and boundaries. Elizabeth shows how mediation breaks down overwhelming conflict into manageable parts and teaches both generations a new pattern for relationships. This isn't just about solving one problem, it's about learning to face problems side by side instead of head on. I wanted to share this conversation because so many parents are surprised by the challenge of having conflict with their adult children or unused to it because they are adults now and we can't really just tell them what to do anymore, but then they're also sometimes acting like kids. (00:08:09): So what do we do? I also think most families think about therapy when they're stuck, and I wanted to introduce this idea of mediation as another powerful approach. We are just going to jump right into the conversation with Elizabeth and then get to the good stuff. I know in our first conversation, Elizabeth, you were explaining to me something that's really cool about mediation is that it's not counseling, and I think that's how a lot of people are familiar with dealing with problems is, okay, I have this problem relationship. If only we could sit down with a counselor and each tell our stories. Why is mediation maybe an even better fit for something like a conflict? Speaker 2 (00:09:01): Yeah, that's a good question. So I'll answer that and then just go back a little bit and reframe conflict. So what I'll say first is if you want to go to family therapy, that can be an excellent option. What you're going to get is yes, a chance to tell your story, and you have to remember that that practitioner is, they're there to diagnose, they're there to give advice and suggestions. So you might find out there is a mental health issue because you have a professional who's trained to look for mental health issues and they might give you exercises, but they're going to kind of diagnose and assess what's going on, and they meet you for what, two, three hours of your life. Just like mediators, it's the first time we're meeting you, we're only seeing a window of what's going on, and so a practitioner, a therapist, a counselor, they're trained to look for where's the dysfunction, where's the mental health issues they diagnose? (00:09:57): A mediator on the other hand comes at it from a different perspective. So the mediator considers you and whoever you're bringing to mediation, you're the experts in your own life, your relationship better than anyone else can. And so the answers to what needs to happen is in you, not the mediator. Our job is to get you to those answers, is to get you to figure out what are the actions you want to take to meet your needs. So it's need focused, it's action based, and the mediator is not trained to diagnose. We're there to hold the process, guide you through it to get you to diagnose yourself and for you to figure out the action. So I think a really simple way to encapsulate this is a comic I saw where it was a family and they were lost in the jungle and the dad says the most important thing right now is to figure out whose fault it is. (00:10:56): And we do that. I think in therapy we're trying to find someone to blame or mental health or something to blame, but in mediation we're saying who is to blame is less important or not important at all? What is important is what we're going to do. How do we get not lost if we're lost in the woods and all we're doing is fighting about whose fault it is, we're still lost in the woods. We might establish exactly whose fault it is and be like, we are a hundred percent sure it's dad's fault. Great. We're still lost in a mediation or saying, okay, let's just get out of the woods. And then it just circle back to conflict. It is culturally, it's a cultural thing. We are taught that if we feel pain or attention, we got to fix it. We got to run away, that's bad and conflict hurts. (00:11:48): So it's actually the same parts of your brain that light up when there's conflict as when you're physically injured. So to your brain, conflict is the same as getting punched in the face. It's like, ah, I don't like this. I want to get away. Let's not deal with this conflict. However, to reframe it, and what we say at humans mediate is conflict is when your needs are not being met. So conflict is that signal. The same signal when you get that tickle in your throat, think I'm a little sick, or if there's pain in your muscles, I probably need to stretch. I'm sore, I'm dehydrated. If we lean into it and say, I want to listen to this as a signal telling me something needs to happen and then I go take care of my body or I go take care of my relationship or I go get my needs met, then the pain goes away because the need is met. (00:12:38): So we say conflict doesn't end until the needs are met and when there is conflict in a relationship, it means somebody or both people's needs are not being met and mediation is a process to harness that conflict to get your needs met. Just like if you go to the doctor and say, Hey, this thing hurts. They can say, okay, here's the process. These are the exercises you need to do so that you address the tension in your muscles, but if you just don't do anything now, it's going to keep hurting. You're going to keep coming back to it, and if you don't go get help, you're not going to know what to do. Speaker 1 (00:13:15): I feel like so many people are going to stop and jaw drop on your definition of conflict as your needs not being met because oftentimes the conflict is the fight that you have. We think of the conflict as the fight that we had or the tension that we feel parentheses because our needs were not met. And I like how you kind of bring us back to the root, and I know from our other conversations that mediation is really helping both parties getting their needs met. A lot of times those needs, even though we think of them as we need a different situation, we need a different system or decision making process. A lot of times the unmet need sounds like is emotional and some of what mediation does is kind of harness those emotions to help get those out on the table in a safe way. (00:14:22): I think too, it's not just that people maybe are afraid and fearful of conflict by itself, but maybe even conflict with that person. That person, either they've had blowups in the past or maybe the person they want to work on their conflict with is so afraid of conflict, they just shut down. And so I really see having a mediator to be so in these cases because you can come in and yes, you can be the expert on your life, but you can work with somebody that's trained to navigate the times when people either get heated or shut down or it feels like we're stuck. We're getting back into this blame cycle. In your experience, because I'm thinking about adult children and parents who's more likely to come with you, come to you and say, Hey, I really want to have this meeting. Is it the parent or is it the child? Speaker 2 (00:15:31): It's both equally honestly, because both sides have unmet needs and both sides have to adapt to, well, we had 18 years where I was this and now we're going to have the rest of our lives where I'm something else to you. We're in a different paradigm. So we talk about maladaptive and adaptive. I got that from Goor mate who studies trauma and it is like conflict is traumatizing. Relationships when there's damage to the relationship, it's traumatizing. And so we get the fight, flight, freeze or fawn responses, and again, what mediation does is it says you're going to be in that. We know you're going to be either in fight, fawn, freeze or fight with your parent and your child because the relationship really matters to you. So stakes are super high, and two, you are stuck with each other forever. So again, we're not talking about a relationship. (00:16:28): I can just buy forget you, I can go no contact. You're still my parent, I'm still your child. We shared DNA, I can't get around that. So the stakes are high, and so what we're trying to do is have two brains at the table as mediators who are not traumatized, who have been there before. I can get you out of this situation, who can move you in that direction and get you not lost. So the maladaptive stuff is really like, okay, when I was in my family, I adapted to a toxic environment and was like, these are the things I need to do to survive. When I got out of that toxic environment, those adaptations became maladaptive because I no longer was in that situation. So the hypervigilance, the walking on eggshells, the people pleasing so that mom and dad don't start fighting the blaming myself, oh, it's my fault you guys aren't getting along. (00:17:19): That was how I navigated and survived as a child in a situation that I had, again, a child's perspective. And when I got to an adult, I was like, oh, those skills don't work anymore. I can't keep doing that in my adult relationships. I can't keep doing that even with my own parents. We have to have a different, different relationship. So there's that transition. Parents and children equally come to mediation because we're all in a culture that is very, we have this punitive where we think people are motivated by punishment and we need to shift that mediation towards people are motivated by their needs when they're met. It's not a reward. We're not giving you a prize. We're like, I'm a human being and I need water and food and shelter and relationships, and without those things I can't function. It's not a reward, it's a necessary part of my survival. (00:18:15): So that's the first shift. And the other is what you kind of mentioned. We go from competitive where we have these power dynamics of parents. It's either the parents way or your way and we're competing and a mediation. We're trying to say, okay, how about instead of it being about power and competition, it's about the problem in front of us that we need to solve the unmet need and why don't we face it together? So we go from trying to butt heads to sitting next to each other and facing it together so that all of our needs can be met, and those are just really hard shift to make when you're in a culture that is so competitive, so punitive, and I'll give an example, the parenting example where we as Americans learn to parent by having that authority, and that's modeled for us in all of our systems. (00:19:01): The Dutch, they are not in that kind of culture. They're in a different culture where they literally ask babies, can I change your diaper? They're literally asking their infants permission to change the diaper, which to us as Americans is like, seriously, that's ridiculous. If my kid poops in their diaper, I'm going to take it off and clean it. I don't need permission. But they're in a culture where it's more common to have that collaborative relationship. Hey, what do you want? Do I have your consent to do these things? And they're practicing it with infants, and I imagine that I'm not Dutch, so I'm just like, maybe I'm fantasizing about a better culture, but I'm like, oh, I wonder if as you continue, you're asking that permission, you're getting that buy-in, you're practicing that collaboration. Whereas in the US we don't see that on tv. We don't see examples of it. (00:19:53): We don't see our system saying, Hey, would you like to pay your taxes? It's like if you don't pay your taxes, you go to jail. And it's like, oh. Oh wow. Okay, so then what do we do with our kids? If you don't do this, you're going to go to your room, you're going to be grounded, you're going to be punished. We know we have enough data, we have hundreds of years of data that shows that punishment doesn't motivate people. If punishment motivated people, jails would be empty by now. What we do know is that we're social creatures, that our relationships really matter and if we don't have them, we can't function and the primary relationship is the parent-child relationship. So if that relationship can shift into that repair, into meeting needs, that setting up yourself as a parent to have a better partnership with your co-parents or your families, your friends, but also your kid is going to be more likely to approach relationships with that and have more successful relationship pattern in the future. And it's just something that again, we inherit culturally, it's no one's fault, but when we go to something like mediation, not only do we get our needs met for that situation, but we learn a new pattern for how to have relationships. And so both parents and children benefit from that. And because that's a primary relationship, if that can be solid and repaired and needs can be met there just opens up everything for the other relationships in your life. Speaker 1 (00:21:16): Wow, you said so many powerful things. In that answer, I am thinking a little bit about how that primary relationship is so powerful in our lives, and it sounds to me like when you can go there just like in a therapy setting and try to figure some things out, but in this case you have actual action steps, you start to benefit in your other relationships. Well, I wanted to share with you an example and just have you do your thing so people can kind of hear a little bit about how it works. So I'm going to read it to you. Is that a good way to do this? Speaker 2 (00:21:56): Yeah, that sounds great. Speaker 1 (00:21:58): Okay, so it's told from the parents' point of view, your daughter graduates from college and moves back home. You're really happy about this because you've missed them and it feels like you're getting some bonus time. You don't really talk about paying rent, but in your mind you think at some point you'll talk about it. After all, you want her to understand there are real costs associated with living at home, and there's also the worry that if you let her live there for free, she won't have the skills needed to budget or pay rent. Later a year goes by and you haven't had a real conversation about this, but your bills really are higher. Not to mention the cost of groceries have gone up and you're covering all of it. In the meantime, she's kind of messy. She'll clean up when you ask, but when you see a glimpse of her bedroom, it's a disaster and something about that makes you feel disrespected and taken advantage of. (00:22:49): You're laying out all this generosity. The least you can do is keep things clean and tidy. When you bring it up, there's tension because it throws you back into the rules of child and parent. And after all, she's grown up. Now to make matters worse, she just comes home whenever she wants and that affects your sleep because you worry about her safety, you like a text or two about her whereabouts, but you worry that you'll come off as controlling on the upside. She's a very loving sister and helps out with their siblings, taking them to and from practices and spending quality time with them. She works full time and has amassed a generous savings account in addition to starting to pay back her student loans. And you feel really proud about that. You love your daughter and you want a positive relationship, but lately all of your conversations revolve around your problems. How can you talk about the living situation in a loving way and find a resolution that works for both of you? Speaker 2 (00:23:50): I love this. They need to go to mediation. So what I would want to see is I would want to see them go to mediation, and part of that just baseline is because they need to talk about this. It took them more. It took them 18 plus years to get to where they are right now where there's tension around communicating things. And you also are transitioning from a child who you've never talked to about costs and rents and expenses to an adult who suddenly needs to actually understand that. And that's a pretty stark shift. And that shift happened while they were away at school and now they're back. And we haven't had that time to kind of smoothly transition into like, oh, now we have a different dynamic. So first thing I would say is they need to talk about this if it took them more than 18 years to get there, going to take more than little conversations here and there, and that's kind of how we talk to our parents and kids in life. (00:24:47): I ask people, when was the last time you sat down to talk together where you're just talking, there's not tv, there's not a meal, there's not an activity. There're talking about practical things. It rarely happens. The most common answer is that's never happened. We don't sit down and say, how was your budget? Are you going to pay rent? We say it as a side comment in the middle of whatever's happening and then it's like what the person receiving it is confused what we're talking about this right now. So what mediation does, it sets time and a container to have that conversation and that in itself is really powerful to say, okay, we're going to stay here and a mediation session is two hours after two hours, no one's getting any better than we can do as many sessions as you need. If it took 18 years to get there, it's going to take more than two hours to get out of it. (00:25:36): So our setting aside time, so either the parent or the child would say, Hey, I want to mediate with you. I recommend when you are asking someone to mediate with you, you really come at it like an invitation. I'm inviting you to talk with me. This isn't a fight. You're not in trouble. This isn't a punishment because people immediately associate that with like, are you suing me? What's going on? This is new, I'm scared. So just saying, I want to have a better relationship with you. I want these positive things and I think we can get it through mediation and then don't worry about explaining mediation. Have the person who's setting up the mediation, explain it to them, answer their questions. That's not your job, that's their job. Your job is to just make sure that that relationship stays intact. And then when you get to mediation, everyone's going to get to talk about things. (00:26:21): What this parent is saying, a mediator would translate into what I call parts. So I heard a couple parts, I heard time together. That might also be the living situation. I heard rent, budget, groceries, housekeeping, sleep and communication. We call it housekeeping instead of chores because chores would be taking someone's side, right? Chores is something you punish a kid with, and housekeeping is something that if we are sharing a space together, we all are involved in the housekeeping and it's not a punishment, it's just keeping up our house. So I would go through as a mediator and I would make sure both the child and the parent both get to speak equally. So that's the other thing is that power dynamic gets neutralized in a mediation. We're not doing this. Parent says it's so game or a child says, so game we're saying you both have to agree for this to happen and we're slowing everything down so that we can talk about everything. (00:27:18): We can find out what are all the parts. I listened for feelings. So I heard this parent feeling worried, feeling taken advantage of disrespected. I also heard a lot of love and happiness and support towards their kid, and then I heard them value lots of things. So their values were like the positive relationships, safety, cleanliness, responsibility, understanding, preparation for when she does leave the house. So we would highlight those feelings, parts and values because that's what makes sure people feel heard. So the first part of mediation, we're just trying to make sure everyone feels heard, they feel accepted, everyone gets an equal access to say something in the mediation, and then we move into problem solving. So that's the other mistake we make is we're so uncomfortable with conflict, we jump to the solution. We're like, no, let's just fix it. Fine, I'll just pay rent. Fine. You just pay for everything. Re it's like, okay, whoa, let's slow down. A mediator is going to be, again, not triggered by this, not upset by this. You're going to say, let's slow down, let's try to understand, ask a lot of questions, build the understanding, make sure people feel heard. Now we move into solutions. Speaker 1 (00:28:27): I know you might be a little mad at me right now because I paused our conversation. Elizabeth had so much wisdom to share with us and it just really gave me new insights about how mediation can be a tool when I've always really looked for or looked to therapy for some of the things that she was talking about. I love this idea of like, Hey, you know what? Let's just get out of the woods and decide what we want to do next. So we're going to keep going on our journey and we're going to move from conflict resolution to movement. Might think of it as a place to get your emotions out if you can't always sit across from a mediator. A little segue for you whether you need it or not. So I want to introduce you to Janna Barrett. She is a fitness and movement coach who lives in Wellington, New Zealand and she specializes in steel mace training and functional movement for women over 50. (00:29:24): We don't get into mace training and this segment, but I really recommend that you check her out. She does amazing work and I learned that mace training is really great for women in midlife. Now the other thing you should know is that because of the time difference in New Zealand, when I was interviewing her, the sun was coming up and she was in front of this beautiful coastal bay and she was just a delight and the background didn't hurt at all. In this segment, Janna's going to share knowledge that's going to change maybe how you think about exercise entirely. She explains that women actually have a 28 31 day movement cycle that syncs up with surprise our hormones and men can work out in a 24 hour cycle, which means our entire fitness culture and our work culture for that matter is designed around the male pattern. (00:30:22): And I know you're not surprised by that, but maybe you've never thought about how that speaks into how you're working out. So she breaks down the estrogen and progesterone phases introduces the concept of training aligned with the moon cycle for postmenopausal women and validates this idea of the blahs where that premenstrual time when you feel fat and ugly and miserable and sleepy and you don't want to face the world and janna's compassionate explanation, she tells us this is not laziness. It is your biology asking you to rest and ladies and maybe some gentleman who may be on the call, this is your reminder to rest and listen to your body. I found this interview so helpful because thinking about how I work out and in sync with my body, it was not something I was used to considering. I had started to think about it related to food but not to working out. And I know some of us are very structured and we want to do things the same way every day, every week, but Janna is saying if you want to age gracefully and take care of your body, remember your biology and I think this is especially important for women in midlife who are navigating perimenopause, but even if you're beyond that, she introduces the moon cycle, which I think could help with your thinking with that as well. Alright, let's go hop into this conversation with Yana Take. (00:32:04): So let's talk about training with your hormonal cycle. This is something I only learned about recently. In fact, I learned about it more from a nutritional point of view with some overlap around hormone. For those who are listening this and this is new, what does that mean to train with your hormonal cycle? Speaker 3 (00:32:28): So first of all, women have to realize that we have roughly about 28 to 31 day hormonal cycle. The way we traditionally train our bodies, it's like men have a 24 hour hormonal cycle. So they can train Monday to Friday or Monday to Sunday. They can have six week, 12 week training cycles, and that's usually when women try to fit into as well. But as we all know, our menstrual cycles are, as I said, between 28 and 31 days within that month. I'm just going to call it month for it. So it's kind of easy to refer to. You have different hormones are dominant, so in the first part of your cycle it's estrogen is much more dominant and then halfway through you start producing progesterone, which is the hormone that will get us to settle the egg into the uterus because everything is kind of tied to reproduction. (00:33:27): That's how we were designed. And then eventually you have your period and both of these hormones are sensitive to different things. So in your estrogen phase of your cycle, you can train like a man. Women often notice they have lots of energy. They're very outgoing, very bubbly. They even say that our communication skills are better. We can pretty much go go and train hard. But once that halfway point happens by day 20, you need to start producing progesterone that is the hormone that they call it chill hormone. It's very good for our mental health. It reduces anxieties and it's basically mother nature telling us, Hey, there could be a fertilized egg in your body right now. So I want you to chill. I want you to rest more. I want you to sleep more. I want you to nourish your body more to give the embryo the most chances to kind of survive and make it through. (00:34:31): So for women who don't make enough progesterone, they usually will have very bad PMS, very heavy periods. Their perimenopausal, menopausal symptoms will be worse. Anxiety, mild bouts of depression, it's not good. We need progesterone. It's a very nourishing hormone. They're even now linking the lack of progesterone to more risk of breast cancer. So we really need that hormone. But progesterone is extremely sensitive to stress. So if you are stressed from work or from relationships or exercise because exercise is a stress as well, it's a physiological stress, then you can upset the production of progesterone, which will have bad consequences for you at the end of the cycle. So in this phase you can't train as a man anymore. You need to maybe skip some workouts. You need to reduce the intensity of your training sessions. It's quite lovely to swap maybe hardcore strength training for a bit more walking or swimming or yoga a bit more time in nature. (00:35:44): So women really need to pay attention to the different phases within their cycle. So essentially your training schedule should be 28 to 31 days long and it's not for most women, it's Monday to Friday or coaches will design a six week or 12 week training schedule. And I was guilty of that for my clients as well. I didn't understand this till very, very recently, but often your body will ask, I don't really want to go and ruin myself at the gym. But then women often override these messages with thinking, oh, don't be lazy, but you can't slack. It's like you need to work towards your goals and towards the things that you want to achieve. So I think that our bodies are constantly sending us messages, but we don't always listen to that and put some stories around it like you're just lazy. Don't slack get up. Whereas the body's going, Hey, I just want to go for a walk today. You just take me for a walk. That's what I want. Speaker 1 (00:36:53): I think that learning to truly listen to our bodies is something that a lot of women are paying more attention to In midlife. It would be awesome to have more women who became mothers who taught this to their daughters, and I do think this is starting to happen more, but it's challenging when we think back generationally to my mom whose mom wouldn't even talk about periods to her, to my mom who didn't really talk about it to me either. It wasn't something we weren't allowed to talk about. So now I have three sons and I talk to them about my period because I am really trying to break the cycle of when should they have a woman in their lives that they love? I want them to feel this is not new information. And it's funny when I have had conversations with them about, Hey, does your girlfriend ever talk about your period? (00:38:02): They just really casually respond. Yeah, it's something that she might tell me about and it's reassuring. It makes me hopeful for the future because I think one of the reasons women override their thoughts is that there's not space for them in culture. It's never been okay to need to stay home because of your period, right? It's a reason that some women have been judged as unfit for the workplace. All women who have menstruated know that there's been days where it's probably more the pmms week to not interface much with the public, to nurture yourself because we are really unique. Earlier I was talking about this idea of with exercise, sometimes I can go for periods of time where I'm on a break from it and I almost wonder if, because I've pushed myself really hard with exercise and with workouts, my body's just trying to do a reset because whether or not it's aligned with my cycle at all, but just like, girl, you need a break. I know some people are listening to this and they're thinking, alright, my cycle's really irregular right now. I'm in midlife or I'm done having my cycle. I know some women are on birth control where they don't even know when they are in the cycle. So how do we take this advice and translate it for them? Speaker 3 (00:39:38): That's a really good question because I get that a lot as well. Women never stop being cyclical beings because even in menopause you are still producing some hormones. So in menopause we produce estron in the adrenal glands, so there is still a form of estrogen. It's not as much and it's a different form of it, but we are still cycling and we're you're still a woman. You don't turn into a man when you stop having periods. So I tell women, you still should follow that monthly flow with your exercise, but because you don't have that day one, which normally for women with still is the day one of your period, then I suggest to women that they themselves up with the moon cycle because the moon cycle is 29 days and I don't think that's a coincidence. I really don't because often women line themselves up with the full moon or the new moon when they are having their periods. (00:40:44): So line yourself up to choose your day one as line your day one with either the new moon or the full moon and then go for your 29, 30 days with your rest, with your exercise, with your food as well because there is the foods you should be eating for the different phases as well. You need more rest in the second phase as well. And when you were talking Victoria about the workplace and how sometimes in that last week before period you would just rather stay at home under the blankets. We all go through that. So that's again, our world has been designed for men. Monday to Friday it's a man's schedule because they have a 24 hour hormonal window. They can go Monday to Friday hard out and then they have a weekend to recover. For us again, we should have a monthly work schedule where we go hard out seven days a week for the first fortnight and then after day 20 we're going to take three days off. (00:41:53): When we post ovulation, when we're in that hole, I often call it the hole where you kind of feel ugly, fat, miserable, sleepy. You don't want to face the world. That should be the time where we should be allowed to just stay in home and look at ourselves and just nourish ourselves and walk and brew some herbs, whatever women want to do, and then reenter the world again and maybe rest on the day one or day two of your period and then enter the workplace again. But that's a bit of a fantasy. That's how we should be working as women. Speaker 1 (00:42:32): I wanted to jump in here really quick and tell you about something I've been working on and invite you to come along. If today's conversation is making you think about your own story, the parts you've lived but never fully examined, I want you to know that I teach guided autobiography workshops throughout the year. Each workshop is built around a theme like family Turning points, health money, and you'll write about your life just two pages at a time. There's no pressure to produce a memoir, no judgment about your writing skills, just you me, a small group of fellow travelers and the profound experience of putting your memories into words. New workshop dates open throughout the year and you can find all the [email protected]. Your story matters and sometimes it just takes a little structure and a lot of encouragement to finally tell it. (00:43:22): Let's keep the conversation going about movement and midlife with Dr. Maria Luque. She's a health sciences professor, founder of fitness and menopause and a certified personal trainer. She's also currently in perimenopause herself, which I think makes me trust her more, giving us both her professional advice and her lived experience. In this segment, Dr. Luca Debunks, the Myth of the Menopause Diet explains why resistant training matters and doesn't make you bulky and delivers the most liberating message. Never stop doing something you enjoy because you read somewhere that another type of exercise is somehow better. Dr. Maria shares the story of an 80-year-old dancer who never did resistance training but danced his whole life and his body functioned beautifully. The key she says isn't perfection, it's consistency, frequency, and joy. This is such a great message for us because American women, we are prone to wanting to try the next best thing and here she reminds us to not just move, but to find joy in our movement. For people like me listening, her feeling frustrated, like I feel like I'm doing all the things. What do I need to know about movement and nutrition at this time of life? Is it just the same as it's always been or is there Something unique about this time Speaker 4 (00:44:48): Is regarding nutrition, and I disclaimer, I'm not a nutritionist, so I tend to stay away from specific advice, but there is no menopause diet. So all of these marketing, because we are being marketed to now, there's a money to be made in the menopause world, so you're going to see a lot more of these menopause diets and things that are specific to menopause. There is no such thing. There is no reason why women need to eat differently unless there's a reason, like a medical reason or you would know if there a reason for you to have to switch your diet such as insulin sensitivity, you're having to go keto because certain reasons that you have to do all of the normal healthy advice still applies. For instance, if we do know that during menopause there's a lot more inflammation in the body just because of the hormones changing. (00:45:45): So an anti-inflammatory diet like the Mediterranean diet is always a great idea. It just becomes maybe more of a increasing your fiber and increasing your protein, those normal things that we are told to do anyway. There's no reason for you to start eliminating all carbs or all sugar or all of those excess things that are always told that fear-based mongering of you have to cut out all of these things and don't eat after this time. You have to listen to your body. What I have noticed is that you might not process things the way you did before. So if you notice that eating at nine o'clock or eating for instance, for me, I have a hard time eating in the morning currently and it's never been a problem for me for the past year. I just feel really nauseous and so it was a real problem. (00:46:32): I really enjoyed breakfast, but now I know that two hours after I wake up, that's when I need to eat and sometimes it's sooner, but it's being more flexible in your approach because things are changing. So that's the nutrition part. Still do those things, make sure you ate enough fiber and make sure that you have enough calcium in your diet and you have enough protein. From a movement perspective though, this is a big one because I do feel that a lot of women just don't resistance train enough, and that becomes a crucial part of just aging. When we go through menopause as we age, we lose muscle at an accelerated rate as we get older, and that is for everyone, not specific to gender but for women. As we go through menopause, it gets accelerated so we lose muscle at an even more accelerated rate, which is a problem because the more muscle we lose, it affects our metabolism, it affects how we function, it affects our risk of falling, affects our ability to recover from injuries. (00:47:32): So building muscle becomes one of the most important aspects of any movement routine. So although I'm not an advocate to say all you need to do, leave everything you've ever done and just do resistance training, I do think that it is important if you want to make a real change, resistance training has to be at the core of it. Lifting weights or doing some sort of resistance training is really important. And then movement in, like you said, a lot of us are sitting a lot more, it becomes more critical to move more in smaller chunks of time, so breaking up the sitting time and just moving more, it helps with mood, it helps with sleep, it helps with all sorts of things, and then finding movement that you truly enjoy. If a dance class really lifts your spirit, that is movement that counts. We need to step away from thinking that the only thing that counts is going to a CrossFit gym and working until we're about to pass out because that is not the truth for an hour a day that counts. If you dance, if you garden, if you move your body household chores, that all counts. That is movement. We just need to do more of it. We need to ensure that during the day we are doing more movement than sitting. Try to move your body as much as you can and include resistance training. Those are the two things that I would highlight as really, really important. Speaker 1 (00:48:58): I love what you had to say about nutrition, that the things that have always been recommended are the way to go. As somebody who doesn't like anything extreme, I love this idea that I don't have to cut out carbs or sugar or stop eating at 6:00 PM but that it really is about knowing my body and noticing what's working and what's not working. And something that I've noticed specifically for me is I have a running partner and she and I run periodically and I do weight training and a few other things. We've both been pretty busy over the last couple of months and haven't been running as much, and I had started to because I was reading more about less cardio when you're in menopause, more weight training, and so I was starting to discount our runs as significant to my overall health and fitness as long as I was walking or gardening, but I actually think my body is missing the runs that we would do even sometimes it might just be three or five miles at a time, but that was movement that is now being replaced with sitting. (00:50:11): So I love the encouragement to just notice and pay attention, and I think that it's a time of life where as women, we can really struggle with body image and we can get really down on ourselves because it feels like my body's changing, it's out of control. And then we have our hormones that are going up and down. Me personally, I've tried to just continuously have a positive conversation with myself about where I'm at. It's not always easy to do, but I think when we focus on strengthening our body or the longevity hopefully of a healthy life, we can kind of shift into something that's beneficial. Speaker 4 (00:51:02): Yes, several excellent points here. First I want to say there's nothing more magic than feeling strong. If you feel strong, it makes you feel different in your body. So the resistance training besides all the other benefits, it just changes how you view yourself as well. Because you said body image, it's been a real focus of what I work on with women now because body image is such a big component of menopause because our bodies do change regardless of what we're doing. All we can do is say, okay, what can we do to feel better in our bodies? And strength training consistently is a winner. There's something that happens to you when you start feeling like you're stronger, that you see you're getting stronger because you see yourself differently. You see your body as something that is capable of doing something important, which I try to stress a lot, is never stop doing something that you really enjoy because you read somewhere or someone told you that another type of something is better and that's what you should do. (00:52:02): Because the reality is that if you don't like what you're doing, you're not going to continuously do it. Any type of exercise done consistently for a long period of time is more valuable than something that is higher intensity or more strenuous for a short period of time. It's the longevity part, it's the co consistency part. It's the frequency. It isn't the intensity that will drive the long-term factors. If you're able to do high intensity forever, then great if that is your thing and you really enjoy it, more power to you. But a lot of women are being pushed into this high intensity mindset, and again, I'm a huge fan of it, but if it's not your thing and you're trying to force yourself to do that and you're giving up things that you truly loved, like walking or hiking two hours a day that you really enjoyed outdoors, and now someone told you that sprint intervals is the only way that you will lose the belly fat, you will stop doing what you did because we only have so much time in the day and you're now doing this thing that you think you should be doing that you're not going to continue doing. (00:53:10): So not only are you failing at that, but now you're feeling worse because you're not doing the things that you need for your mental health. Any runner that I've ever talked to does the running mostly for the mental benefits. It's more of the I'm getting my head, I'm outdoors. That's the part, and maybe I'm assuming that's the same for you. My point is never give up any type of movement that you truly enjoy and that you are regularly doing regardless of what anybody says, because you're going to get more benefits out of that then than doing something that you didn't enjoy. I think we all have seen those videos of older couples dancing and the joy that they have. I see it here when I've gone to a two step class and there's this one older gentleman who goes apparently all the time and the joy he has, he to be in his eighties. He danced with all the ladies in the bar, and I bet you he has never done any kind of resistance training. He's still out there dancing and living his life to his fullest, and it's probably because he's been dancing his entire life. It's the what can you do forever that you really enjoy this movement specific, and if you enjoy resistance training and I can get you to enjoy it, then that's wonderful, but that shouldn't be to the detriment of something that you really enjoyed before Take Speaker 5 (00:54:37): See. Speaker 1 (00:54:51): All right, so far we've been really talking about preventative health and we're going to continue in that vein, but I want to introduce you to Dr. Tice Goodlow who really explains that it is hard to be sick and it is hard to be well, and really it's about choosing your hard. So Dr. Tice Goodlow or Dr. G, the NP is a board certified cardiology nurse practitioner who has a DMP from the University of Arizona. She is an award-winning hypertension researcher who now trains clinicians in EKG interpretation. She focuses on cardiovascular health in minority communities, but Dr. G is also a powerlifter who walks her talk. She's never going to ask patients to do something. She's not doing herself. In this segment, she delivers one of the most empowering reframes I've ever heard. She says, as a healthcare provider, I can only do two things, give you a pill or give you a procedure, but you can do seven things. Eating, exercise, sleep, dental care, watching alcohol, no smoking, no drugs. This segment asks the question, I think every woman needs to answer. How committed am I to my own health? Dr. G's passion for heart health is exactly what we need to hear in midlife. While we might be thinking about weight gain, aging and diet, her focus on cardiovascular preventative care reminds us to take care of our hearts now and this two seven framework, it is really empowering. It puts our health back in our own hands. Let's listen up for Dr. G. Speaker 6 (00:56:38): It's hard to be healthy and it's hard to be sick. Pick your hard. Speaker 1 (00:56:44): Yeah, I like to say if we're lucky, we will live a long time. And what do you want that life to be like? If we are lucky enough to live to 80 and 90 and what do we want our quality of life to be? We have these practices, this kind of health prevention or maintenance, then we have these ways in which we work with our healthcare providers to find out how we're doing what we need to watch or pay attention to. So what are some of the conversations that you feel like women in midlife, maybe starting around 35, 40, 50, what should we be talking to our doctors about? Speaker 6 (00:57:32): One of the most important things that your provider needs to be aware of is your family history. That's very important. I've had patients before that everyone in the family, every male, once they hit 50, they had a heart attack. So we're going to be doing preventative care before you're 50, right? We're going to be doing stress tests and evaluations and being very diligent on your cholesterol and your blood pressure and all those sort of things so that you're not the next statistic in your family. So that's one thing I would say is very important is to make sure that your provider is clear on your family history. The other thing that I would say, and this is a tough conversation, and this is a tough topic I'm bringing up, but I would challenge every patient before going to a provider to ask themselves how committed am I? (00:58:22): Am I willing to do the work or am I looking for someone else to do the work? Because at the end of the day, as a healthcare provider, I only can do two things. I can either one, give you a pill or two, you get a procedure, that's it. We have nothing else to offer. But you can do a lot of things. Eating, exercise, sleep, dental care, watching the alcohol, smoking, no drugs, understanding that if you're going on this health journey to say, I want to be healthy, I want to be whole. I want to live a good quality life and a long quantity life, understand that as a commitment. I think some patients misconstrue that thinking, oh, well, I have high blood pressure. They're just going to give you a pill and it'll be fine. Even if your blood pressure's fine, you still have high blood pressure, right? Because you're on the pill. And that's still a risk factor, regardless of if it's controlled or not, versus working on not having that. So I think it's an honest conversation to say, how committed are you for your own health? Speaker 1 (00:59:27): That's an awesome question. I love the breakdown of how you can do two things, and we can do at least seven, maybe even more, including if we're struggling to eat a healthy diet, but we can even go find someone who can support us in that, or we can watch YouTube videos on mindset and we have a lot of tools, and if we're going to our healthcare providers thinking that's going to fix the problem, yeah, that's a different story. I'm curious about some of the heart healthy tests that you think that a woman in midlife should be having. Speaker 6 (01:00:17): I would say that there are a bunch of tests that people should definitely get done annually. And when you say test, I'm even considering other things like having your blood pressure assessed because a lot of people think about blood work, but having that sort of measurement being done, cholesterol should definitely be tested, thyroid should be tested, blood panels should be tested, kidney function should be tested, electrolytes should be tested. Those are the basic things that we test. And I would even go so far as to say is to try to understand your numbers, right? Understand what a reasonable cholesterol number is. There's four of 'em listed on there. Do you know what all four mean? Or which one is the one we care most about? And the one we would target if there's a problem and why are we doing these things? So yeah, that would be minimally that would need to be done. Speaker 1 (01:01:12): I love that you brought up understanding your numbers because I am one of, I don't know what the percentage of people are healthy person with high cholesterol, and I also have a family history of heart disease and it's not easy to understand my numbers. And I'm wondering if you would be willing to explain to us what these mean. If I tell you what my numbers are, Speaker 6 (01:01:38): Sure, why not? Let's go for it. I Speaker 1 (01:01:41): Think something that I and maybe other people could benefit from understanding is, especially because I'm talking specifically about cholesterol and I feel like the conversation around cholesterol numbers, I don't know if it's changing or we're hearing more about it. And my alarming number is the big number, but then I have other numbers that are good and so how concerned should I be? So my total cholesterol is 2 41 and that's a little higher than the last time I had it checked. My triglycerides are 84, my HDL cholesterol is 73, and my cholesterol HDL ratio is 3.3 and my LDL number is 1 66. Speaker 6 (01:02:37): Okay, so I have one more question and then I'll answer your question. Are you on cholesterol medicine? Speaker 1 (01:02:46): No. Speaker 6 (01:02:46): Okay. So I think sometimes there's this misnomer that as clinicians, we just throw people on medicines. And so in order to determine if somebody belongs on cholesterol medicine, what you generally do is figure out something called their A-S-C-V-D score. So atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease score, it's your risk for having a stroke or a heart attack within the next decade. So part of trying to figure out that score is we use some of the numbers that you just stated. I'd have to pull up my calculator to give you your exact score, but I will say, yeah, 2 41 is high. We generally like that. Below 200, your triglycerides are fabulous. Speaker 1 (01:03:29): 84. Yeah, that's fabulous. Is triglycerides one of the bad or is it one of the good cholesterols? Speaker 6 (01:03:36): The triglycerides always tell patients that's the one you have the most control over. You personally, because try means three, but glycerin is sugar and eyes is fats, sugar, fats lower your sugar fats, your triglycerides will go down. Triglycerides are very commonly elevated in diabetics, which makes sense if you have high blood sugar for that to be elevated and whatnot. Your HDL is good. It seems like it's almost too good. You like HDL to be over 50 in women, yours is 73. That's pretty good. HDL is the good cholesterol. That's cardio protection for you. Out of all the numbers that you said to me, the one that's most alarming to me is the LDL, you said it was 1 66. Okay. And you have a family history of cardiovascular disease, but do you personally, have you had an event? Speaker 1 (01:04:27): I have not. And I also have had a calcium score test done and I had zero plaque, but that was about a year ago. Speaker 6 (01:04:36): Calcium scoring is great, but remember calcium is hard and it's rigid and it's old, so you don't have any old lesions, but there can be lesions that are newer where that could break off and cause a heart attack and whatnot. So it's good that you don't have old lesions. LDL is the bad cholesterol. Whenever we treat people for cholesterol, we attack the LDL first. That's what we're thinking of because if you fix the bad, the overall of your 2 41, that's going to go down. So we don't really say, oh, let's hit that one. The current clinical practice guidelines when it comes to cholesterol is this. That's why I was asking if you personally had a history, and I know you told me no. So for someone like you, we would want it no higher than 99. You want it 99 or less. In America, if you have had an event, we want it under 70, so 69 or less. (01:05:42): Now I'm saying America because I want to talk about Europe for a hot second and I'm going to bring it back to America. So in Europe, if you have not had an event, they actually want it under 55. And if you have had an event in Europe, they want it under 50. So vastly different guideline practices. Now let me speak a little bit about LDL here. So LDL again is a bad cholesterol. We don't like that. The clinical data shows that there's no such thing as having an LDL that's too low. It's literally the lower the better. When we're born, our LDL is roughly around the thirties. So considering that worst case scenario, we want you at 99. And again, if you got under, that's even better. Literally the lower you get the better. But you can see how 99 is a big difference from one sixties. And so without even really having my calculator to calculate your risk score, it sounds like that your risk score may be elevated. So in general, if the score is 7.5% or more, it's recommended to be on cholesterol medicines. Now having said that, that is not a substitute. We supplement with lifestyle modifications and it sounds like you're already doing lifestyle modifications. So unfortunately it just sounds like the genetic component is so huge on you. But let's be positive here. Imagine if you weren't doing what you needed to do, how high it would be, Speaker 1 (01:07:29): Speaking of feeling a little naked. Now you know all about my familial high cholesterol. And I will say that in the last two years since I had that conversation, I have been taking some important steps lowering a little bit. And if you have issues with cholesterol, I hope you learned something from Dr. G. Now I want to introduce you to another doctor. This is Dr. Soma Mondal and she's a board certified internist who studied at NYU in Oxford. She's also one of America's top physicians in midlife women's health. She's the author of Dr. Menopause. I Do Not Fear You and the host of the Soma Says podcast. She blends western medicine with eastern philosophy and focuses particularly on women of color. In this segment, Dr. Soma names something many of us experience but don't have language for caregiver stress syndrome. She describes the crux position of midlife women sandwiched between our aging parents and our own families, and she shares her own struggles with her mother's help. (01:08:30): And how she really learned this lesson herself. She delivers the oxygen mask metaphor with genuine permission to put yourself first. This isn't selfishness, it's survival. I found this conversation really meaningful because so many of my friends and family members have become the caregivers for their aging parents and other family members, and they're still raising their kids or their kids are just going off to college or some of them even have young children. So this reminder is just really essential for our own health. We can't pour from an empty cup. Let's go listen to Dr. Soma. So we're talking today about women and midlife, and one of the things that really drew me to you is the way that you're getting the word out around caregiver stress syndrome. And that was the first time that I had really heard something that maybe I sort of knew was happening the first time I had heard the language to describe it. How do you describe it and just tell us what we need to know about it. Speaker 7 (01:09:46): So caregiver stress syndrome, the baby boomer generation is aging out and the next coming generation, gen X is also approaching a certain age, but we in our forties and fifties are the primary caregivers not only to our own families, meaning our spouses, our children, but to our aging parents. And with that, and I fall within this generation, we are seeing more caregivers, specifically women who have a lot of stress because they may or may not be working. They are parents, they're juggling a household and they're also figuring out how to take care of their aging parents or their relatives. So as you can imagine, they are the crux of all of it. And they often not only have stress related to that, but stress related to taking care of their own health. So this is what the definition of caregiver stress is when you're overwhelmed with figuring out how to deal with all of this and maintain your own sanity as well as your physical health. Speaker 1 (01:11:23): That's really helpful because I feel like we're talking about this idea of being sandwiched between our children who are getting older and our parents who are getting older if we're lucky enough to have both of them, I guess. But also I could do a whole episode on just what it's like to the stress of parenting teenagers or young adults or careers in your forties and fifties. And so it seems to me that what's interesting is this compounding stress and how so many women, we are givers and helpers and self-sacrifice and we're trying to make sure everyone has what they need, even if that means that we don't. So what are some of the health problems that you see? Probably my hunch is someone's not making an appointment with you and going, I'm a really stressed out caregiver. That's what my medical problem is today. What does this look like on the medical side? Speaker 7 (01:12:39): Yeah, no, nobody comes in and says, I'm a stressed out caregiver and I'm here for a checkup. I have the fortune of having relationships with my patients and these are things that I tease apart because I know them and I know that they're struggling and I can see it because they may be stressed out, they may appear stressed out or they look depressed or anxious. So it's an in-depth conversation as to what's going on in their life to find out what they're struggling with. And a large percentage of that time it is juggling all these different balls and trying to keep them up in the air. And there's a lot of at times feeling guilt, depression, the stress of managing it all, sometimes anger, sometimes sadness, a mix of everything. So I feel like nobody, like you mentioned, nobody comes in with that box checked. But often we have that conversation and then finally they let me know what they're going through. Speaker 1 (01:13:57): Are there certain biomarkers that tip you off that somebody might be more stressed out than has so far been part of the narrative? Speaker 7 (01:14:10): It can be sometimes tricky. It can be maybe a little bit of weight gain or their blood pressure is slightly high or their cholesterol may be a little bit elevated or their sugar is a little high and that opens the door of how are you eating and are you able to exercise and are you getting enough sleep? And of course, obviously we talk about stress and so one conversation often leads to another. So these are some of the markers that show up, but often there's no real marker. It's basically talking about their family history. So if they have a family history of heart disease or dementia or diabetes, these are the things that we look for to make sure that they don't have it. So these are some tests that we do that you wouldn't necessarily have done if you weren't having a physical, if you weren't coming in for your checkups or if you don't have a primary care physician. So my point is is that there's not always a blood test to check and that you're not taking care of yourself Often it's the conversations that you have with your doctor. Speaker 1 (01:15:29): Yeah. What I'm really hearing in what you're saying is that the conversation is so important because especially if it's outside of our awareness, maybe we are not sleeping great, but we're not attributing that to being stressed out because we feel pulled in multiple directions, especially with perimenopause, we know that can affect our sleep too. So there's lots of things that maybe without talking to our doctors, we can tell ourselves stories about why that's going on. And so I love that the conversation is really integral to your health and something else you mentioned, which is going in for a physical, right? I can't tell you how many times a year I need to make sure my 15-year-old either has a physical for sports or an eye exam or a dermatology checkup and I'm caring for him. So I'm making sure all of that's happening. But taking that same caretaking lens and applying it back onto me is really important because if I'm going to care, my parents are still living, thankfully they live in Georgia, I have other siblings that do a lot of the maybe more day-to-day things that they need. But I'm past the age where I have a mom making sure I've gone in for my physical. I am the mom of me. (01:17:08): I going to have to be the mom in this situation. So if you had five minutes to talk to a stressed out middle-aged woman, what would you tell them to do? Speaker 7 (01:17:22): So I often call myself the voice of gentle reason who reminds their women patients to gently put back the oxygen mask on. And that analogy is really important because you can't take care of anybody else if you don't take care of yourself. And the same rule applies for me. And I found myself in that situation a while ago. And at that time my kids were much younger, my daughter was a toddler at that time, and I found myself very overwhelmed and then a couple of years ago regarding my mom's health and I was absolutely not doing the right things in terms of my own health and it was affecting me and I realized I had to put myself first in order to be able to continue what I was doing. So I shared these stories with patients and the hope that it helps them realize that they're not in it alone, that there are other people who struggle with these things, but that it is important to put yourself first And the way that looks like it could be many different things. (01:18:40): One is to, but not avoid your family doctor, your primary care physician to make sure that you have at least your annual checkups with them. And that can include follow-ups. And the same goes for making sure that you're up to date with all your screenings, right? Your pap smear and colonoscopy and your mammograms and your skin checks. And if you are suffering from stress and anxiety, not just sweep it under the rug, perhaps you need to talk with someone or perhaps you need some medication to help. So these are all things that we should be aware of that there is help that we're not in it alone, but we have to make time for it. Nobody else will make time for that but yourself. Speaker 1 (01:19:36): So good. And I feel like despite sometimes our best intentions, we're waiting until there is a problem that we are falling apart. By the time you're really falling apart, it's hard to get in to see your doctor right away or it's not easy to have access immediately when you need it. That can be different depending on where you live. But what I take from that is that we have to go upstream and we have to do not just the preventative care, but the everyday wellbeing practices that we know are things that are going to help. And I found myself on more than one occasion when I am really stressed out, starting to feel like I want, it's the weirdest thing. I want to kind of stop doing the healthy behaviors. I want to eat more cheese, cheese and butter. I want to sit on the couch more. (01:20:49): I want to have that second or third glass of wine and I can feel that. But there's something about how I'm feeling that is almost like, well, who cares? One of the strategies that I've tried to implement, and I am not always the best at it, but is almost doing the opposite. When I start to feel that stress and overwhelm and think of myself almost like an Olympic athlete, and it's like, okay, no, I can't. This is not the time to stop caring about myself. This is the time to double down on the hydration, the supplements that I know that I need and the more green foods and fiber, not less, and see if I can help myself, especially if I'm going to be also trying to get in and talk to my doctors and have those important conversations. And it really is that mental health component, and I love that in your practice, your perspective is very holistic in the way that you want to know your patient's stories. I think that's so important. Speaker 7 (01:22:14): It is very important because not every condition can be treated with a pill. There are sometimes when people just need to be heard and understood, and those conversations are really important and what you just described, I think when we get very overwhelmed, it's almost like an ostrich putting its head into the ground, into the sand, not wanting to cope or deal with anything and just go into avoidant behavior. But when we do those kind of things, when we drink too much or when we eat things that are not good for us, especially when you're in your midlife, in your forties, fifties and onward, those are the very things that actually compound on the stress and the anxiety and disrupt our hormones and cause us to feel worse in the long run and affect our health in the long run as well. Speaker 1 (01:23:20): Right. I know it's so, it's so counterintuitive. I think if we do use that analogy of mothering ourselves, this is not what we would want for our children if they were stressed out is to sit on the couch and eat a bag of chips. We'd be like, Hey, let's see what else we can eat. Let's maybe go for a walk or maybe you need a bath. Let's look at that. And it's one of my life hacks is to try to think of myself as a child and maybe what I would need from there. We've been talking a lot about our bodies and how we take care of our bodies, and now I want to talk about our minds and how powerful our mind is when it comes to how we take care of ourselves and that really important integration. So I want to introduce you to Jeff Spitzer. (01:24:18): He's a certified health and wellness coach. He's the founder of H three H training and coaching, and he's in the Portland area and he's also an ELI master practitioner. He describes himself as a former yo-yo dieter who lost over 30 pounds and has kept it off for years, and he's the first to admit he's still struggles with emotional eating. In this segment, Jeff shares his recent story where he really overdid it with some tar chips and introduces the powerful reframe that willpower is a muscle and it can get fatigued, and he teaches a journaling practice that helps uncover your patterns. His message is it's not about the donut, it's about the thought that led to the feeling that led to reaching for comfort, mind blowing, right? This is where the real work happens, says Jeff, understanding our thoughts can really help us gain perspective, and this awareness can help us break old habits or unhelpful patterns. I love how Jeff makes this practical and compassionate, let's go listen in, take me out. (01:25:27): I think mindset's such an interesting word too, and I know we're going to talk about mindfulness soon because it's possible we're using those words interchangeably. I think for a long time I had associated mindset with willpower, with grit, with discipline. I am reminded of, I don't know if you've read the book, the Power of Habit, the author's last name is duh, Charles Duhig, and he talks about willpower in there and how we'll run out of it. At some point we think that it's like we have this endless supply of willpower, but if we're using our willpower all day long to in this time of year, do your taxes or we're doing things that we don't want to do by the end of the day, we have less willpower to actually do it. And something that I've been working on in a lot of areas of my life, not just with thinking about what I'm eating, is just noticing my thoughts, which I know is an aspect of mindfulness and just noticing when I find myself, I do a lot of problem solving for other people's lives. (01:26:44): Sometimes I don't know if anyone else has this, but I will often just find myself thinking about someone else's problem and what I think they should do with it and why I don't think their approach approaches working. And I was noticing how often I was doing it, and so I just gave myself a little homework of just noticing when I'm not using my energy for me and my life and the things that I've already decided mattered to me. And I feel this is definitely a tool in many areas of our lives. One of the things I want to talk about is relationship to food. I know I've talked with other friends who have said, I'm tired of dieting, I just need to work, but I know I need to work on my relationship with food. Is that something you talk about with your clients? Speaker 8 (01:27:40): Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's where the mindset comes into play. So the thing about willpower, I like to describe it as a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it can get, but you can overuse it, you fatigue your muscles and they fail. Same thing with your willpower. You try to rely on it all the time, you're going to fail. So where mindset comes into play, I think of it a little differently. It definitely intermingles with mindfulness, but I think about it a little bit differently. So having a growth versus a fixed mindset, and we live depending on your circles, but in my experience, most of the people that I historically in my life had a fixed mindset. It's just that's the way it is and there's nothing you can do about it. I can't be any better at this. I'm a slave to whatever my circumstances are. (01:28:28): Can't, for example, somebody who's not happy with their weight, I can't lose weight. It's just how I am, just how I'm built, whatever it is, it's my metabolism. It's this, it's that rather than trying to figure out what works for them or relationship with food, I think most people want to eat healthy, but their mindset may be holding them back. One, it could be a knowledge gap, but most of us know if you want something sweet like an apple's better than a donut. So you don't need a nutritionist to you that you know that, but you'd rather have the stinking donut. So this is where mindset can come into play. It's like being conscious and being in alignment with your goals. First of all, you have to have goals and you have to know what you want for yourself. And what I strive with my clients is to help them, one, achieve their goal, whatever it is. (01:29:21): It might be health reasons why they'd want to lose weight, get their blood sugar down maybe, and so they need to make some serious changes. But once you get past that, it's about living in balance. And so what I always try to help people understand is try not to moralize foods. Foods aren't good or bad. There's not a good food. There's not a bad food, okay? Living in balance is about, there are some foods you want to eat more often and some that you want to eat less often. And so helping people find that balance with food is really what I strive for. Once we get past the initial hurdles of if there's any serious conditions that they need to make changes around. Does that make sense? Speaker 1 (01:30:06): And I think I really appreciate that you brought up that there is the ideal body culture that drives some of people's weight loss goals that has to be negotiated with, I believe, for someone to really have balance and wellness and those conversations can be really hard in our internal monologues. And I think you've reminded me that this is happening for men as much as it's happening for women. And then there's really looking at health and aging, which is something that's really important to me and where there's our relationship to food and how it makes us feel when we eat the donut versus the apple. I think most people also know that they will feel better if they eat an apple versus if they eat a donut. But there's more and more reasons for people to be thinking about this because it's so easy to put on unhealthy weight as we age. (01:31:13): There is the way in which when our lives are ruled by our emotions, we're not having that mindfulness around what we're eating. We can really see our weight creep up 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 60 pounds. I know you probably worked with a lot of people who experienced the consequences of emotional eating through the pandemic. A lot of us turned to food, including myself, more eating, more, drinking, more like who cares? Was this ever going to end? We're going to have periods of our life where we're going to go through hard times. Thankfully, we're out of the pandemic and we're getting to a more normal life, but we also have hard things that happen to us regularly. Many people associate food and drinking with comfort in hard times. You know what? Screw it. I'm going to eat ice cream. You know what? Forget it. I'm going to open this bottle of wine. I've had a hard day. So I feel like that takes us to what to do instead. What does mindful eating look like? Speaker 8 (01:32:30): Let me take a step back before I answer that question because you're right. We deal with these things. The pandemic was a hard time for many of us and a lot of us turn to emotional eating. The whole joke about the COVID-19 pounds that we gained or quarantine 15, there's all these funny names for it because it was a real thing. Life is full of ups and downs. Even for me recently, I've been dealing with some severe back pain for months now, and I'm as susceptible as anybody. I just have more tools. And so recently I found myself just feeling down. I was tired of being in pain and I found myself tearing into a bag of chips. Usually I don't have something like that in the house, but in this case, they were here and I found myself digging into those chips and I love it. (01:33:24): And I was mindlessly eating through them. And I realized that I was doing it not because I was hungry, not because I was bored, though that might've been a factor, but because I was feeling down because I was hurting. So emotional pain, physical pain, these things will drive us to do these emotional eating. And so once I realized what was happening, I put it away in these emotional eating episodes. I think it's really important for people to take a step back because generally it starts in our thoughts. We think about something that gets us feeling a certain way, we start feeling crappy, and then we go and we reach for something to make us feel better. So the key to really starting to unwind that emotional eating is to think back when you find yourself in that moment. It might be moments before, it might be hours before it might've even started days before. There might've been a stressful incident at work that day and it got you going down that negative thought train that ultimately led to you looking for some comfort in the form of a food. I want to talk more about mindfulness and what people can do, but before I do, is there anything you want to add to that? Speaker 1 (01:34:33): I love this little assignment that we can do. I am hearing the noticing and then the inquiry. How did I get here? What is really driving this? What should somebody do when they find that answer? What do you think? Speaker 8 (01:34:48): Journal. So in my coaching, I give them a form to fill out when they find themselves in these episodes and I ask them to dig back and what led to what. So I mentioned the thoughts leading to the feelings, leading to the action, and they deconstruct this, you're not going to solve this the first time. This is something that you're going to want to do over and over again and start to recognize the patterns. So when you find yourselves in those moments and get out a piece of paper journal, write down what happened that day, what did you experience? What were your thoughts? How were you feeling? And you'll start to notice some patterns. So that's actually the number one suggestion is writing it down. Speaker 1 (01:35:28): Talking about patterns is really helpful because you might find that you have a similar thought that is driving you to the bag of chips or to the ice cream. And it's good to discover that, especially because so much of this is happening on a subconscious level Speaker 8 (01:35:48): In regards to mindful this. And as it relates to the food with mindful eating, that's really the long-term key. So the more that you can become mindful in your life, and I'll explain what that means in just a second. People think of mindfulness and they think of somebody just sitting around meditating all day, and that's really not what it is. They might think it's a religious thing, and that's not the case either in the way that I'm going to talk about it. To me what mindfulness really means is just being conscious of your choices and being in the moment. So related to food, understand why you're making the choice to eat while you're eating. Is it a conscious decision? Have you planned out your schedule for what you eat, like your breakfast, lunch, and dinner based on your goals and your goal being maybe for some people it's losing weight, maybe for other people it's reducing inflammation in their body. (01:36:45): Maybe for other people it's just wanting to live long and have energy for their kids and their grandkids. People my age now, I'm 53 and a lot of my friends, I don't have any grandkids yet. Hopefully soon. Knock on wood. Here we will. And I want to be around. I want to be able to roll around and play with my grandkids the same way I did with my kids when they were little, and I want to have the energy for that. And so I want to eat in such a way that supports that goal. So for some people it might be something immediate like a health issue. It might be losing weight, it might be long-term down the line, how do I want to eat? How do I age well and how can my diet support that? Drink me. Speaker 1 (01:37:29): So our last two guests are going to help us get into some, some thinking outside of the boxes. First up is Gina Marine Lang Go, and she's the founder of Magic by Design hd. She's an energy healer specializing in human design readings and mindset transformation. She's a former corporate VP who discovered energy healing during her daughter's medical crisis, six weeks in a Baltimore hotel room during COVID while her 13-year-old recovered from bilateral hip dysplasia surgery. In this segment, Gina introduces a concept I've never heard before. She says, we're not educated to grieve ourselves as we're moving from one chapter to another. She explains that to fully welcome the next version of yourself, you must grieve the old identity. This segment addresses the self-sacrifice narrative. So many women carry and offers us a pathway through this transition where we can honor all parts of ourselves. Now, I think switching careers or reinventing yourself sometimes comes with some shame, maybe some feelings of failure. But when you think about it, us in midlife, we're already going through this hormonally. So it's another pathway to reclaiming all of yourself. So I love this message that reminds us that there's room for grief, there's room for change, and there's always room for the next version of who you want to be. (01:38:51): One of the stories that you've told me about yourself is that you had a completely other career before you really leaned into this gift. And I'm wondering how did you hear that voice calling to you? Especially because your career, you were in corporate America, you were vice president of a hospitality company, is that right? And you left all that to do what you're doing now. So what was that like for you? Speaker 9 (01:39:28): I think when you look back at your story, you may not see when we're going through moments in our lives, specifically the moments that aren't easy, that those are the moments that have the most pivotal effects on your life. And you're absolutely right. I was in corporate America for over 20 years, and for the last big chunk of those years, I was vice president of sales and marketing for the largest hospitality management company in the world. I was climbing the corporate ladder and I created this beautiful life for myself, for my family. And it was great until it wasn't, until I felt that there was more that I needed to do with my life than just that. And looking back, my daughter, so we're going back now to late 2020. My daughter was 13 years old at the time, and she's had some health issues since she was two years old. (01:40:34): So we've had a journey through her health through pretty much her entire growing up. We live in Arizona and she has bilateral hip dysplasia. Her hips were pretty much dislocated. Her femurs were dislocated from her hips and they were sitting two inches above her pelvic bone. So we've had to do several surgeries to help bring them back into place. Throughout her young life, this condition created a leg length discrepancy, and we're in COVID still. It's November of 2020, and she needs to have a very intense surgery where we're going to actually lengthen one of her legs, the trauma that she's had to her hips. And that journey actually took us from Arizona to Baltimore, Maryland where the specialist was that she needed to undergo the surgery. So my husband and son stayed in Arizona. Her and I went to Baltimore. She went through her surgery and we had to live there for six weeks. (01:41:40): So because she was in and out of the hospital every single day, we're literally rowing bone to lengthen her leg. And it was in that hotel room that I don't know how, but it's so funny how everything happens for a reason. I was introduced to human design and it was through a goal setting class. It was at the end of the year. One of my friends was trying to keep my spirits up because being a caregiver is just, it has a lot of stress compared as much as going through something when it is physically you going through that being the caregiver, you have to not only take care of yourself because you're also taking care of somebody else. So we did this goal setting class. It was supposed to just help me stay positive as we're going through this hard piece of our life. And in that goal setting class, I was introduced to human design, and that is the blueprint of your energy, that is learning your energy. (01:42:43): And it was in that hotel room where I learned that the way I'm designed with my emotions is very different than my daughter. From there, I was hooked. It was there in that hotel room going through the hardest thing. Her and I have been through. That is when I knew I needed to start learning more, listening to that little gut of, okay, I'm learning this for a reason, and I started allowing life to lead me, to teach me to open these gifts that I've had my entire life. But I just kept them small because my thought process was the way to be successful, the way to support your family is by having a big corporate job with a big corporate title. And it was going through that experience with my daughter that changed our whole entire life. She turned 17 this month and she is a thriving 17-year-old getting ready to go to prom. And it's so amazing to watch her journey along with my own, because I listen to my little voice helping her see that as well. Speaker 1 (01:44:00): That's a beautiful story and I feel like it's pretty amazing that at a time in your life where I can only imagine the stress and probably also the financial burden of traveling and medical procedures that came along with this, that you decided to do something different with your life, which I'm sure also created question marks around your income and what would happen next. Maybe even question like your healthcare and all of these things that were, I'm sure really tied into your career. And I do think for people that have children, this is one of the beautiful things that can happen with kids is that it can just sober you awake when they are in a time of great need because they all have regular ordinary needs and distress. But when you face something really hard with your child, something that is life changing, maybe life or death, it wakes you up to what am I doing here and what is my purpose? (01:45:17): And am I doing what I need to do or does my life give me the space that I need to show up in the way that I want to for my family and for myself honestly? Because I think that a big misunderstanding, I'll call it that instead of a lie, but a big misunderstanding that a lot of women have is that the way to virtue is through self-sacrifice and kind of pausing what your needs are, your desires and wishes so that you can make sure your children have everything they need, maybe everything you didn't even get. So a lot of parents, especially women, we're trying to give them this really balanced life. We're so much more informed than our parents and our grandparents, and it's really hard to try to give them everything and remember that you need just as much in terms of that care and really nurture. So we've been ping ponging a little bit around these idea of energetic blocks. And I talked a little bit about this self-sacrifice or the things, hearing the voice, but maybe being a people pleaser and continuing to go. Are there common energy blocks that people have or are they very individual? Speaker 9 (01:46:40): When you look at emotions, there's more common emotions that I believe can stick to us, that can fuel more, but the way they show up in our lives are very different. Let's say for example, grief. Grief is a big one, and grief is one that I see a lot specifically in women because we are trained to think of grief as we grieve. When we lose somebody we love or we grieve when we miss an opportunity or we grieve when we lose something so near and dear to our heart. But a lot of times specifically in women, we are not educated to grieve ourselves as we're moving from one chapter to another. So it's as we are growing and creating our path, it's okay and it's actually needed to actually stop and grieve. I'll use myself for an example, grieve that person. I was that vice president in the hospitality industry, grieving that I said goodbye to that piece of me so that I could fully welcome in this new version of me, this intuitive energy healing entrepreneur of me. And if I didn't grieve that peace, I'd be still holding onto it because I didn't fully say goodbye to it. Just like how we need to say goodbye when we lose somebody we love. It's okay and needed to say goodbye as we evolve and grow. So I think that, for example, is a very common one that we see specifically in females as we go through life. Speaker 1 (01:48:28): That's such a powerful example because five minutes ago we were talking about what a positive, amazing life-changing decision that you made. The narrative very quickly overrides to positive, good nothing to see here. And this is such a good reminder, I hope people listening will take this away, that even when we are making important, positive, progressive life-changing, life-giving decisions, we are letting go and saying goodbye to things that have that energy and emotion and we have to be intentional about that. Or I can imagine all the things that could happen. And that was my next question. What does an energy block look like? But I'm thinking now, I wonder if it looks like second guessing yourself or feeling anxious because you have this duality inside that's not acknowledged. How does somebody know if they've got some energy blocks happening in their lives? Speaker 9 (01:49:41): That's where it is really different on each individual because we all experienced it differently. Sometimes we'll feel that, oh my goodness, I can't shut my mind off and my mind just keeps going. And our mind is overshadowing our heart, which is the sea of our intuition, and we want to lead with our heart. But sometimes the analytical side of us just keeps going. Sometimes it will manifest into a physical discomfort in your body. They just recently worked with a woman that had extreme allergies, and that was the way her energy, her body was holding energetic gunk that needed to be processed through. It was creating these allergies in her physical body. It could be a feeling of there's not enough jump from let's be a corporate VP to let's be an energy healer was mine was so rooted in scarcity. I had this belief that the only way I could support my family was to have somebody in some building somewhere put their John Hancock on my paycheck. And that was the only way I could do it. And it was rooted so deeply in scarcity. It was generational. It was coming from my dad's lineage of this deeply rooted scarcity that was showing up in my life, that was making me scared to make this jump. And it was identifying that and releasing it, releasing that heaviness, which allowed me the courage and the confidence just to trust and just keep taking those baby steps. It's just one foot in front of the other as we're welcoming in that next beautiful thing in our life. Speaker 1 (01:51:33): Our final expert is Justin McSweeney. He's the host of Idea Cast interview series. His goal is to make complex ideas accessible and decode, meaning-making and purpose discovery in daily life. In this final segment, Justin introduced the concept of Will to spirit, and I got really interested in this idea. So this is the innate human drive to seek transcendence and meaning beyond the ordinary and mundane. But he's not talking about self-help or adding another practice to your to-do list. He's talking about recognizing that the conversation you're having right now, the ability to reflect on your past and plan for the future, the meaning you make through connection. This is the spiritual work. No dogma required, no leap of faith needed. This is about wholeness and healing through philosophy, not motivation. I found this conversation fascinating because Justin's perspective isn't about about wholeness and healing by applying concepts from philosophy, not necessarily somewhere I'm used to looking to for this kind of understanding. (01:52:40): Spirituality and awe aren't just add-ons to our lives. They're essential. And I think this really gets to the heart of that. Let's listen in to my conversation with Justin. So I recently had a podcast with another writer, and we were talking about awe. And I wanted to read you a definition from an awe researcher named Dr. Kelner. And he describes awe as the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends your understanding of the world. And I feel like one of the challenges that I have with, there was a time where I really appreciated philosophy and philosophical inquiry more because I was more analytical and that appealed to me. But I learned that I was spending way too much time in my head. So one of the things I really appreciated about awe, and especially as we think about our wellbeing, is that we can have meaningful experiences without using our brains to think we can just be in that presence. And I know that you are interested in something called will to spirit, and I wanted you to talk a little bit about that. And is that this concept of awe? Is it something different? Speaker 10 (01:54:04): Yes, in a way, I think, and what's interesting about the word awe, and I follow a guy on YouTube and he's a CogSci guy out of Toronto, and the old Nordic etymology of awe goes back to the 13th century Norse, and it was meant terror and horror. So we've definitely modified that. It has a neo analogic meaning, I don't know, maybe in the last a hundred, 200 years, I'm not sure. But we get what awe means in that context. But it's funny that the old meaning of awe was to be in awe of the boulder that was about to hit you or whatever. Speaker 1 (01:54:35): Well, I think that we're still somewhat connected to that because a lot of the awe experiences we have do have this aspect of this could swallow me whole. This view is amazing. And this cliff is very high Speaker 10 (01:54:48): Indeed. Absolutely. And that points out something that I find important and that we don't want to create hard binaries about. Things can mean wonder and transcendence, and it can also mean just the shock of things. Like you said, there's something called Florence syndrome or stent hall syndrome. It was a phenomena that was observed in Florence, Italy, in, I don't remember which century, but people would literally have a psychotic break when they would walk into the halls and they were not exposed to fine art before and P, their minds were blown and they would just go into psychotic states because of the beauty, and they would recover very quickly. I don't think it happens so much now because we're modern, jaded people, but if you took somebody in, it's the same thing. You're overwhelmed. You were talking, I think you mentioned transcendence, or at least moving out of the ordinary. (01:55:31): People like to kick around the idea that transcendence can be achieved by two means that we'll work with here. One is ritual and the other one is disruption. They can be put on a continuum so that you can maybe between ritual and disruption or use ritual to create disruption. So there's ways that these things can be dynamic. And that kind of feeds into what you were saying about awe. In other words, people who go into all night drumming and dancing and they get into a trance state in a way doing that is a disruption of their normal daily routine, eating and gathering or farming or whatever they were doing. And they're going to get together at the sunset and dance all night. And that's a ritual in a sense. That is something that's performative. But then the disruption occurs from their daily lives staying up all night, depriving themselves of sleep and just getting into that trance state. And that's when transcendence affords itself to the individual or the group. And that's one example. There could be a lot of other different examples, but that speaks to this idea of the awe and how it can afford us transformative or even a transcendent experience. Speaker 1 (01:56:33): I'm going to bring you back to this idea of will to spirit add in there. Speaker 10 (01:56:36): Let's do that now, and I can tether that to what I was rambling on about before, transcendence and the disruption and all that. The will to spirit to me is this innate drive in our species to seek transcendence, to seek beyond the ordinary and the mundane and the trivial, which is our lives. We have happy moments in our lives. We have romantic partnerships, the love of our children and family and so forth. Some people like their jobs, and so there's moments in our lives that are non-ordinary and they're fun and they're exciting. But to speak to a greater beyond the egoic self, beyond the daily self, to connect with something that's greater than you that creates the awe that creates this stent hall syndrome or whatever. I think it's inherent in us, and it could be because we pass it from generation to generation again, through that interjection or what they call ESIS or fancy words for what we pass on to the next generation. (01:57:27): And also, I just think it's in our psychical DNA or psychological makeup that we want to think that there is something beyond this because that is a meaning-making system. It is part of a practice that allows us that sense of meaning. So if we want to talk about purpose and meaning was I believe in this, or I do this practice and it affords me that space to find my spiritual self and my spiritual nature, I'm extremely simplistic when it comes to my spiritual needs. What you and I are doing right now is deep spirituality for me. We're talking about interesting things that this species does, our humanness and what we do, and we are, as far as we know in this arm of the galaxy, we're the only ones that do this. We're capable of medioc. We can reflect on the past, we can think of the future, we can regret, we can plan all these different things, and that's a gift. And that to me is apprehendable spirituality. It's something that we can grasp. So there's no veil. There's nothing that you have to try to have faith that it's there. This is something that's available to us, and it's not to dismiss anything else. I'm agnostic about everything else, but this is what is rich for me. Speaker 1 (01:58:33): I love that explanation because as a writer, I'm a personal narrative writer, and I feel like that's one of the big places that I make meaning, and I help other people make meaning because it is even more attractive at midlife because you're not just asking the question, what do I want to do? Now you're reflecting on what you've done and who you've been, and you are figuring out, oh, based on the life that I've lived so far, I could probably say that this is what I have believed. Is this what I believe? Now? Are these my beliefs? I would say, yeah, for me, totally. This idea of will to spirit and having a drive to make sense and meaning is one of the amazing experiences of being human and alive. (01:59:24): Thank you for listening to this Greatest Hits celebration of the naked librarian's wellness era. Are you staffed? As I was doing the work on this episode, I was talking to one of the videographers at the university where I work. I saw his screen. He was working super hard, and I was telling him about this project, and I heard myself say something like, I'm not one of these people that has to finish what I start. I can walk away from projects and I'm not proud of it, but I have that capacity to do it. And today, as I'm wrapping up all of these edits and sending this out into the world, what I'm realizing is maybe that's not true. Maybe that's a story that I've been telling myself. Maybe it is important for me to finish what I start. Maybe I am one of those people that has to complete something that is really important to me. (02:00:23): And as someone who's writing a book that is not finished, I find this message particularly encouraging. So when the show returns, we're diving deep into the power of personal narrative, these stories that we tell ourselves and the stories we tell about ourselves. You're going to hear from storytellers, memoir, writers, students from my writing classes, from me everyday. People like you who've discovered something about themselves by sharing something true. Because here's what I believe, the stories you tell about your life shape, who you become. And it's not just me. It's narrative psychology who helps us understand that. And I really believe that it's worth exploring together. Until then, take good care of yourself. Maybe start thinking about the story you've been carrying, the one you're wondering whether to tell. I'll see you next season. Take Speaker 5 (02:02:10): I out. I hear big, big drum inside my ears. I lay my and face the.

What if the key to understanding who you are lies not just in your DNA, but in the stories of those who came before you? In this episode, I'm joined by genealogy researcher and writer Jacqueline Jannotta. Jacqueline is the award-winning author of Let’s Leave the Country! A Guide to Your Family Year Abroad, inspired by her family’s extraordinary year in Genoa, Italy. That book is one facet of her work as a writer, avid genealogist, and self-described forever optimist. Something that Jacqueline loves is helping people uncover not just their ancestry, but the deeper meaning behind it. In my conversation with Jacqueline, we talk about how her passion for genealogy developed and why humans across cultures and centuries have traced their lineages, and what happens when we dig into our own. Spoiler: it’s often more surprising—and more emotional—than we expect. This episode has two parts and some bonus content. In part one, we discuss why so many people begin this search in midlife, how DNA tests can offer both clarity and confusion, and how family patterns—sometimes visible only in hindsight—can echo across generations. She also introduces us to a concept called the overview effect—a kind of zoomed-out awareness, like astronauts experience when viewing Earth from space. In genealogy, it’s the moment when your personal story clicks into the larger human story, and you realize how deeply connected we all are. In part 2, we zoom in and Jacqueline shares her research on my genealogy and what she discovered in my family tree—surprising connections, covered up stories, and even a mystery. Something cool that surfaces in all of our conversations is the often overlooked significance of your matrilineal line and family patterns around early loss, strong women, and resilience. In the bonus content, she even traces one ancestral line all the way back to ancient Europe—and shares a jaw-dropping possibility about a historical order my ancestors might have founded. Whether you're curious about your heritage, hoping to discover family stories, or hear how a genealogy researcher finds all that amazing history, this episode is a beautiful invitation to zoom in on the details—and zoom way, way out. Learn more about Jacqueline at https://www.becomingbetterpeople.us/about-jacqueline-jannotta. And thank you to Wonderland for the music featured in this episode, Castaway by Moonlight. Podcast Edit: At minute 30:10, Jacqueline is telling a story about her family of origin. She mistakenly says that her mother died at an early age, but she meant to say that her grandmother's mother died at an early age. She is making the point that both of her grandparents lost a parent at an early age and ultimately found each other. 

In this episode, Naked Librarian host, Victoria Payne, interviews Amy Reiley, an aphrodisiac food expert, about the connection between food and sexual health. They discuss how certain foods can affect sex drive and performance, and provide tips for incorporating aphrodisiac foods into meals. Amy explains that foods like dark chocolate, chili peppers, coffee, and pineapple can have positive effects on sexual health. She also emphasizes the importance of hydration and a varied, colorful diet for overall sexual well-being. The conversation highlights the importance of individual preferences and finding foods that both partners enjoy. Amy cautions against consuming foods that are endangered or dangerous, as they have no proven aphrodisiac effects. Always seek professional advice for any sexual health concerns.   *** Thank you to Amy Reiley at eatsomethingsexy.com. And thank you to ORKAS for the tunes...Hey You.  You can find The Naked Librarian's Guide to Your First Colonoscopy here. Thank you to our sponsor Mission Flow — marketing and automation for businesses on a mission.    To see the transcript of this episode, see below:  Speaker 1:        You can affect your sexual health and performance without prescription drugs or expensive supplements. When it comes to sex, food really is medicine. Speaker 1:        So how's your sex life? Kind of an intimate question, I know, but did you know that 40% of women age 40 or older report a lowered sex drive and after 50, that drops to 34% and men aren't doing that much better? With 46% of men over 50 reporting some issue with erectile dysfunction. Now, don't get me wrong, I hope you have an amazing, fulfilling, tremendous sex life. I wish you many orgasms and wet and wild nights, but if you're like a lot of Americans over 40, your sex life may not be what it once was before kids and your twenties perimenopause, or the stress about paying for college or saving for retirement. In fact, there's a lot that goes into our sexual yearnings and enjoyment beyond aging and hormones. And perhaps no big surprise here, our mental health plays a big part. Now for the good news, you can affect your sexual health and performance without prescription drugs or expensive supplements when it comes to sex, food really is medicine. Speaker 1:        And today I'm going to introduce you to an aphrodisiac food superhero goddess who is helping men and women have happy sex lives until their dying day, if of course, that is what they want and why not want that? Sex is fun. It relieves tension, provides pleasure, and builds intimacy with your partner. Hi, I'm Victoria Payne, your host and the creator of The Naked Librarian, where I uncover the truth about health and happiness for grown ass women. If you're new here, welcome. I'm so glad you're here. I'm a writer, storyteller and recovering English professor who uses her nerd power and love of good stories to bring you wellness news with some spice. Today you meet Amy Riley, a astronomical sex expert. Amy has an MA in astronomy from LA Cord Blue and is the author of five Aphrodisiac cookbooks, including Fork Me Spoon, me, and her latest project, the Better Sex Bundle for Men. Speaker 1:        You can find amazing recipes and free resources over at her website, eat something sexy.com. In this episode, Amy's got your hot tips on foods to amp up your sex drive, what to order and what to avoid on a romantic night out. And for the nerd choir, like me, some science behind why certain foods come with sexual health benefits. And yes, sometimes it's the actual nutrients, but sometimes it's the experience, the sound dark chocolate makes when you snap off a bite. That's what we're talking about. So if you're at all curious about what to eat or even what to hand feed your partner, join me in this fun and inspired conversation with Amy. Oh, and bring your notepad. You're probably going to want to jot a few of these tips down, or if you're in your car, maybe make some mental notes because you are in for a treat. Speaker 2:        So I'm so happy that you can join me today and people are going to listen to this at some point, but I think it's worth noting that we are just one day before we're like Valentine's Day Eve, and this is your time. This is when it sounds like you've had this amazing season of people wanting to talk to you about your specialty. And so I'm just curious, what have been some of the appearances that you've made, some of these special things that have happened because of your specialty in Aphrodisiac Foods? Speaker 3:        Oh my goodness. Well, first of all, I love that Valentine's Day Eve. Yes, it's the most, I mean, today is the more wonderful day. It's like you can anticipate Valentine's Day. I always like that feeling. So wonderful things. So I just found out that some of my quotes are recipes are going to be featured on AARP's website for Valentine's Day. So yes, so what is it, 55, 50? I don't even know the age range. Anyway, the over something crowd is going to have a little extra nudge towards some romance and maybe some nookie, Speaker 2:        Right? Because as I'm sure you discuss often age shouldn't be the end of desire and equity sex life. So I was so excited to learn about you and what you do, and I'm just dying to know how did you become an expert in aphrodisiac, a goddess designation? Is that black belt degree? How do you become this? Speaker 3:        That's as a frightening thought. Like a black belt in Aphrodisiac is a little, I might be a little kinky, I don't know. But no, it was actually, so I started out in the food business as actually a wine writer. I had worked in a winery tasting room. It was my first job after college. I learned a great, great deal about wine and I really loved it. And so I was working as a freelance wine writer for many years, pretty successfully. And I sometimes dabbled in food as well. And I happened to have a degree of massage therapy, so I sometimes got to write for spa magazines, which was kind of fun. There were some really great perks that go along with writing for a spa magazine. But I became very, very, very, very, very, very sick. And it took to get a diagnosis. And finally the doctor figured out that it was a combination of a mold allergy and a systemic yeast infection, which is a very weird thing. And basically it just, between the two of them, they destroyed my digestive system. It wasn't working, and I was just constantly losing weight, and I was exhausted. I mean was of course, I had no sex drive. I had no desire to get out of bed. And unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't want to say cure, what would be the word be? I can't find the word. But anyway, the prescription, the regime, whatever, to get better. Speaker 3:        It was a diet that was incredibly restrictive, truly horrible. I mean, the most restrictive diet you could probably ever imagine. Luckily, it wasn't for that long, but I want to say for three weeks I was completely restricted. I could have, for example, I could have no sugar of any kind, which meant not even lemon juice on a salad. It was really, and there were a lot of other things I couldn't have as well. It wasn't just sugar. And that went on for maybe three weeks, and then I was so excited the first time I got to eat a green apple. It was the first fruit you were allowed to introduce. And I just remember biting into that crunchy apple. I was so happy. So I went through this journey on this diet. The amazing thing about it though was that I started feeling better almost immediately, and I was really stunned by how much what we put in our bodies, the food we choose to put in our bodies can impact the way we feel almost instantly. Speaker 3:        And so I became very interested in that specific part of the health side of food. And I didn't want to talk about fad diets or restrictive diets or any of those things, but I was really interested in this whole idea. And I also was very interested. I happened to just love food history. I love mythology, I love folklore. And so I started learning about aphrodisiacs and I was like, oh, these are really, those are cool from a folkloric standpoint and all this mythology. And then I started reading the science side and reading a lot of papers and scientific journals and realizing that this was it. This is an area for me that can combine this interest and knowledge I have of how food can truly impact your holistic self along with this wonderful interest in food history and folklore and all of those things. And so that was my very long-winded way of saying, that's why I'm into aphrodisiacs. Speaker 2:        Well, I love this notion of when you're sick and that you're sick. Sometimes we have something that's sort of dull or problematic, but not creating situations where we don't want to get out of bed. And so we just have this gnawing sense. And it's interesting that when we're truly sick, how some of the basic things like food can really demonstrate the power that we have on our overall health. And we hear it all the time. Food is medicine. And in your story, we really hear that. And so food is medicine, especially what we're going to get into in terms of sexual health. And I think you talk about it as sexual health and performance, which I think is really interesting, right? Because you can have your sex drive and then you can have your enjoyment of sex, how much your partner enjoys having. Speaker 3:        And that's another whole part of it is how is your partner going to benefit and how can you use food to increase intimacy? So there's really very much a holistic experience using aphrodisiacs in your daily, in your diet or in planning a special meal. Speaker 2:        So I wanted to reach back to when we were talking about Valentine's Day Eve, and you were saying part of the anticipation of Valentine's Day is part of the enjoyment, and is that also part of Aphrodisiac Foods is the, it's not just the food that you're putting in your mouth, but it's the way that you're eating and the relationship you're having with what you're eating. Speaker 3:        Oh, I definitely, I feel very much so. That is incredibly important from how you set the scene to how you invite the other person to the table, or maybe you're cooking it together and anticipating together. I do. I think that's a really huge, huge part of the effectiveness of aphrodisiac in the context of you want to have a romantic experience, not in the context of changing your diet to sort of change your performance or your desire. Speaker 2:        So a lot of people go out to dinner for Valentine's or they have a special date night, or it's Friday night, they go out to eat. And we don't always have in our refrigerator, sorry, we don't always have on the menu what we might otherwise have at home. So if you had any advice for people going out either for Valentine's Day, what would you say? Hey, if you want this to be a romantic night, do these things. Speaker 1:        We're going to be right back to hear Amy's answer about what you should eat on a romantic night out. But first, I have a little message for you from Naked Librarian Central. Hey, it's Victoria here, and I have another personal question for you. Are you 45 or older? Do you know someone who is? If you answered yes to either of these questions, I have the perfect gift for you or your loved one. It's thoughtful, funny, original, because nothing says you care. And I got your back like the Naked Librarians Guide to your first colonoscopy and activity book for grownups. The American Cancer Society's Guidelines moved the colonoscopy age from 50 to 45 years old. So if you haven't scheduled yours, now is the time. This activity book is the companion experience to colonoscopy with 10 fun-filled activities and loads of hilarious trivia to keep you entertained while you count down from limited diet to final purge. There's even a colon maze you can do while you're waiting for the nurse to call you back for your procedure order. Your copy is easy. You can get yours on Amazon. Just search the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy. Did I mention where number one in the colorectal category? In the meantime, make your list of friends and family. You want to delight with this rare and exciting gift, and as we say over at The Naked Librarian, bottoms Up. Speaker 3:        In fact, I have done a lot of consulting with chefs and restaurants on creating a Valentine's Day menu that could be effective in that way rather than just picking the things that sound like the most decadent, which is usually where a chef will go. So I do recommend, and some people will be sad, I recommend staying away from steak. Not that there's anything wrong with enjoying a steak when you want to enjoy a steak, but it makes you sleepy. It ends, the blood has to go to your stomach to digest that steak. Well, we want blood flow to go somewhere else if you're going to high, if you're going to go home and get it on, yes, the blood flow has to go somewhere else. So I tend to other heavy foods as well. A pasta and a cream sauce, not a great choice. I don't care if it has truffles on it. Speaker 3:        Yes, they are an aphrodisiac, but that pasta with the cream sauce is going to be really hard for your body to digest. I remember once I was working with a absolutely wonderful, very talented chef, and he had this wonderful Valentine's Day menu of light and exciting foods, and then he wanted to finish the meal with a giant ice cream sundae for two. And I was like, oh, no, honey. No, we don't want to do that to people. You don't want to have that sugar overload. You don't want to have that heavy, high calorie dessert. And I'm not saying that these things aren't great once in a while, but if your goal is to go home and enjoy a little romance, these are not the things you want to eat. Have a lighter dessert or a share a small dessert. One of my favorite romantic dinner desserts is ado, which is a shot of espresso with a scoop of gelato. Delicious light, sexy. I love the hot cold contrast. My theory is that foods that have multiple temperatures or multiple textures help pull you into the moment. They help make you more present because of those seductive sensory elements. So I always look for those in a meal. Many of my recipes have multiple elements in that way to kind of pull the diner in and make them feel present. Speaker 2:        Oh, these are great. So what I'm hearing is that when it comes to planning for a romantic night or looking forward to something like that, there's some things that we can do at dinnertime, and it sounds like avoiding foods that are harder to or take more energy to digest or taste blood flow, fattier dishes that might make us more full and tired. So almost, it's almost like the romantic, the sex that's happening later, that's the dessert, and you've got to save room for it, right? Speaker 3:        Oh, totally. Yes. Yes. Or the other way is skip dessert, go home, get it on, and then pull a nice cake out of the fridge. I mean, that works too, Speaker 2:        Right? Have your ice cream sundae afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. Forever in the movies, it was always smoke a cigarette after sex, and we're pretty sure that's bad for us now. Yeah, so ice cream sundae, that could be the next great trend. Walk me through the science a little bit of aphrodisiac foods and how they actually work, because this part is, I think the part I understand the least, but I find really fascinating. Speaker 3:        So when you look at most foods that are historically considered aphrodisiac, you can find some nutritional tie to sexual health. I mean, that's really where most of it comes from. There are a few foods that are a little more mysterious. We don't really understand chocolate. It is an incredibly complex food, and we just don't know exactly how it's affecting the body. I mean, we have some ideas, but we know that it helps with, it could potentially promote dopamine production and some of these things we might've heard, it's a feel good food. The truth of the matter is you probably, in order to achieve those kinds of feelings, you'd probably have to eat more chocolate than is humanly possible in one sitting. So we just don't quite understand that. We know that the bromine in chocolate has an effect that is similar to caffeine, but we haven't drilled down exactly how. Speaker 3:        We know pretty well how caffeine affects you and amounts not figured out so well for chocolate, and especially because every chocolate maker has a little bit different of a percentage of cacao, which is the base of chocolate. So that makes it hard. But what we do know is that dark chocolate is superior to milk chocolate when it comes to seduction, and that's because it's the cacao. It's that main ingredient in chocolate that has the aphrodisiac effect. And so when you're having milk chocolate, it's got a whole lot more sugar and milk to make it delicious and sweet and light and creamy, but dark chocolate where it has that sort of rich, exotic taste, that's what you want. Speaker 2:        I am stuck thinking about chocolate now. Forgive me. Speaker 3:        It's a good thing to be stuck thinking about, really. Speaker 2:        So then there's nutrient content has been linked to sexual health, which is interesting because a lot of aucc foods is folkloric. So it's really interesting to see that connection. I mean, this happens over and over. The smarter we get, the more we realize People 2000 years ago understood things that were just now needing science to prove, but I find that so cool to know that way back when some of these foods that were on the sexy eat list are now, we can actually peer inside them and know how they affect our bodies. Speaker 3:        Totally, completely. There are a lot of foods that just directly help support sexual hormone production, plain and simple. That's why men should eat almonds. So there's a lot of that. And then there are some foods that were studied even further to kind of go more in depth. Pomegranate juice is a really great example. You may remember there were ads a few years ago about drink pomegranate juice because you'll have a better sex life, basically. And there's been a tremendous amount of study on specifically pomegranate juice and how it affects men's sexual health and men's testosterone. It's really all quite interesting. But the most interesting thing to me is that all of the research was paid for by one of two or three pomegranate juice companies. Speaker 2:        Yes. That is important for us to note. Well, now that makes me curious because the food that I've been hearing a lot about for men's sexual health and virility is beets and beet juice. What do you think of that? Speaker 3:        So it's funny when you have that one food, you just cannot, you just can't. I just can't, can't do beets. So yes, there is definitely evidence that beets are nutritionally superior to a lot of foods when it comes to sexual health for both men and women. I know there's a little more, there tends to be more research for men sometimes. It isn't necessarily that the food is better for men. It just tends to be that the research was paid for to research, to look for men, and women are definitely a little underrepresented in this arena. I think there's some of that going on with beets. But yeah, I haven't gone deep with beets. It's just not my food Speaker 2:        As a gardener. I love that. I haven't gone deep with beets. Yeah, yeah. It's better when they grow far under the ground. Yeah. So boy, I think that's very interesting that the research on women's sexual health is not a surprise that we don't have as much, but interesting that more of it exists on the male side. Speaker 3:        Although you would think from the perspective of the reason that what I do isn't talked about all that much is because the drug companies would prefer to sell sexual enhancement and sexual performance drugs, and those are all for men. So you would think that the research would be for women when there's an open market there, there's no drug company trying to compete. So I think we're just ignored. Speaker 2:        Yeah. Well, and I find all of that really interesting because we know when women move into, we talk about it as over 40 or perimenopause or menopause, that's when many women began to see changes in their sex drive and their sexual health and vaginal dryness and all that good stuff. Has your research gone into this area as well? Because I know that there's a lot of women who maybe have just, they just think I'm in a different phase of life having children. Maybe I've been married for a long time, maybe I am divorced and I'm not interested. Even in dating, I don't quote miss sex. What does the research say about having a low sex drive? Should we be concerned about that? Speaker 3:        I've never seen it presented as a symptom of greater problems. So no, I don't think it's something to worry about, but I also don't think it's something you should just accept. I mean, if you're in a phase, phases are fine. We all go through different seasons, but it shouldn't be like, this is the rest of my life because it doesn't work anymore. Because you can always make it. You can make it work till the day you die, really? So that should be no reason not to, if that's what you want. Speaker 2:        Let's back up for a second. So until the day we die, well, okay, maybe not that day, but I feel like what you're saying is until our lives are very different, sex can be a part of it, but that's amazing that a part of our lives that we associate with being young and can stay with us if we're healthy. Speaker 3:        So in my job, people like to overshare, and I can tell you, I even know one very vibrant 94-year-old woman who is still very much enjoying that side of her life. Speaker 2:        That sounds great. I'm so happy for her, and I hope that she's representative of other women who Speaker 3:        Absolutely, well, I think she's for sure representative of the potential, if not the actuality. Speaker 2:        Very, very true. And that is really interesting because we're living in a time where a lot of what we talk about is how to optimize our lifestyles, how to improve our performance. And so it's a very exciting time because we have this wealth of knowledge. So if you were talking directly to women approaching 40 or older than 40, what are the food recommendations or habits or practices that you would say Start here. Speaker 3:        I haven't researched this deeply yet. I am currently working on a new book, a new product called The Better Sex Bundle for Women, which is coming out in April. And that will be, yeah, that's going to be a whole chapter because I know that I know what happens. I've seen it plenty of times. I've heard plenty. For example, I know there are plenty of things that we can do, such as good old dark chocolate can actually help balance the pH of a woman's vagina. So eating dark chocolate can actually help with a woman's vaginal health. Hydration is also critically important for both men and women, but especially women in that age range. Some actually, I've noticed with women working professionalism and mothers and any woman who's kind of got a lot of things going on tends to forget that they tend to be juggling all the balls and forget about themselves. And one of the biggest things they forget about is staying hydrated and drinking plenty of water and know the eight glass a day rule isn't necessarily a hard and fast rules. Some people find they actually need more and some people need less. But certainly staying hydrated is super duper important to your sexual health. Speaker 2:        So what I'm hearing is we need to drink more water, which is a struggle for a lot of people, including me. And we get to eat chocolate. Speaker 3:        Oh, totally. Absolutely. All the time. I went through a phase. I had to stop because the dark chocolate bar melted, but I went through a phase for about a year. I always had a dark chocolate bar in my purse, and anytime I got into an unpleasant situation, like a long line at the post office, I'd pull out the dark chocolate bar, snap off a square, and just hearing the snap would kind of change my mood already and I'd eat my piece of chocolate and I would just be okay with whatever it was. And then one day the chocolate bar melted, so maybe carry a cooler, I don't know. But it was a terrific aid to getting through my day and it was helping my sexual health. Speaker 2:        Yeah, it sounds like dark chocolate is the win-win or men and men. Speaker 3:        Oh yeah, for sure it is. So I have a list of foods that are, I have a website called Eat something sexy.com, and on there we have a list of the 10 best foods for men and the 10 best foods for women. And dark Chocolate actually makes the list for women just because there are some extra things that help us, and women tend to be the ones, quite frankly, who might need that little boost of mood. We kind of take on the world. But it is absolutely great for everyone. So stock up on dark chocolate bars for your next date night. Speaker 2:        Okay, wonderful. So I'm already thinking about, I like de Goba chocolate. I think we invest in some of that. So in terms of women's sexual health, we do have our unique changes. I like how you broke down, moms have their own sort of thing going on, especially if you have young children. And then we also have, when your career is your focus, I mean, there's so much related to stress and burnout, and I know I've heard some women and men complain that sex feels like one more thing to do. Speaker 3:        Yeah, it's on the to-do list, and that's a terrible, terrible shame Speaker 2:        Because it provides so much value and relief and enjoyment and closeness and connection with someone that you love or someone that you love that night. So we think about some of these other foods. So we talked about chocolate. Someone is experiencing stress or anxiety. What are some of the other foods that you would recommend they make part of their regular life? Speaker 3:        So my big thing, I always just tell everyone, eat your five fruits and vegetables every day. They kind of help everything. And that's partially because they help hydrate. A lot of fruits are very hydrating, watermelon, grapefruit. And then on top of that, they are a great source of fiber and nothing works when our gut isn't working. So we need these quality fiber foods, and they're something that we often don't get. So that's my first suggestion to everyone. Eat your five fruits and vegetables a day, and if you're not sure you can get them all in, then make it your goal. I'm going to eat my five fruits and vegetables before I eat anything else. It really works. Speaker 2:        I'm thinking of the scene. Have you seen the movie? This is 40. Speaker 3:        No. Speaker 2:        Okay. Highly recommend. There's a hilarious scene with the husband and wife and they've got two young kids and they're getting ready for bed. And the husband goes, so do you want to have sex tonight? She goes, not really. I'm really constipated. And he goes, oh, she says, I mean, unless you want to. And so, yeah, constipation, not feeling like you've really relieved yourself. Speaker 3:        Not even, and not even, it's even just the grumbly gut. The grumbly gut or just general bloating, all of it. It's not, Speaker 2:        None of that is aphrodisiac. Speaker 3:        So everything you need, everything needs to stay lubricated. Obviously men are reliant on it. You can't make semen without being properly hydrated. So seminal fluid needs a woman's vaginal hydration is very important. We're all kind of screwed. If we're dehydrated, Speaker 2:        We're not. We're unscrewed it sounds like. Speaker 3:        Well, yes, completely, a hundred percent not going to happen. Speaker 2:        So I feel like one of the things that I'm learning is that there's easy stuff that we can do. It's not a big diet change. In fact, it sounds like there's more additions than sub attractions, but I do know there's probably also a few things besides stake that might be affecting our sexual health and ongoing way. What are some of the other things that you say? Watch these? Speaker 3:        Yeah, I mean, it's the obvious stuff like fried food is not going to improve your sex life at all. So it's things like that. It's eating a lot of simple carbs. It's eating a lot of fried things. These things are not great for your sexual health. Obviously they're not great for your overall health. So sticking to a variety of foods, a nice, healthy, varied diet, just eating colorful foods, that's another great way we eat your five fruits and vegetables a day and eat a plate of colorful food. These are things that just are going to help. Speaker 2:        I love eating the rainbow, and I wrote a little bit about this and a recent article because I think eating the rainbow, obviously we can see the nutrients in the food. You have these bright colors telling you this food is good for you. But I think the feast for the eyes and the way the color impacts your mood even before it gets into your body, is so great. I love that this is a crossover habit that's really in there. Speaker 3:        Yeah, I have to say, I look at a beige plate and I feel a little sad. It just doesn't, it's not inspiring. Speaker 2:        Yes. Last night I added a little yellow pepper to my salad because it was looking, believe it or not, too green, Speaker 3:        Too green. I get it. Speaker 2:        I needed something else in there. So if someone were to say, okay, design me the perfect romantic meal, do you have something in mind what you would say, eat this. Speaker 3:        I do have something in mind, but my advice might surprise you. My advice is to think about what you and your partner would both enjoy. I cannot give you one single meal because just in my own household, what would work, what be best for me is absolutely not what my husband wants to be eating for that romantic meal. So think about foods that you both and then go from there. Actually, I'm going to send you to eat something sexy.com because we have all kinds of free resources. We have tons of recipes, so you'll find something that you can both enjoy. We even have some menus there of romantic evening menus. Speaker 2:        Plan your Perfect Meal. Thanks for that reminder. I know what you're talking about. Not as much. I haven't thought about it as much in terms of sexual health, but this weekend I made my husband sort of my favorite breakfast. I know what he likes for breakfast, and sometimes it's the same as me, but I've been really into toast with edamame smash and overly eggs and pickled onions and sprouts, and it just makes me feel, it's very colorful. I feel so happy. And I could tell for him, it was more like, oh, what have you made me? It wasn't what I was going for. I was going more for like, wow. So I can only imagine if someone has really put their heart in to beautiful aphrodisiac inspired menu, and then their partner is like, oh, I don't like beets. Yeah, I am allergic to chocolate. So understanding what those things are. There's nothing like hurt feelings in what you're going forward and trying to turn you on Speaker 3:        And all the disappointment. Yeah, no, it just doesn't work. So you've got to figure out what's going to work for the two of you, I could name off some ingredients that would be great choices that maybe they'll inspire. Like chili peppers are actually amazing for a romantic evening. They raise your body temperature and they make your lips plump up and your tongue tangles. It's very exciting. But if you hate spice, don't do it. Coffee, I mentioned earlier, coffee is great if you're trying to move from dinner to the bedroom for a little late night. And so it gives you that little spark of energy when you need it. Right. So that's a great one. You and I were talking, was it the other day we talked about pineapple pineapple's, another wonderful one. It makes my list of the 10 best foods for men's sexual health, actually. So these are all fun, great things like a light protein fish. Seafood is wonderful. Fish oysters, the classic, the aphrodisiac classic perfect Speaker 2:        Oysters cause me to think of this. Are there any foods that have been touted as aphrodisiac but really aren't? Speaker 3:        The ones that I have found that really aren't, are the weird, freaky things that are either endangered or dangerous to eat. They really have no, there's absolutely nothing to substantiate them. And I can never figure out, I can't draw the line to where this could have started and why people continue to prize rhino horn and Spanish fly. These are not things anyone ever should consume and they're going to do nothing for you. Speaker 2:        That those I feel like I've read about maybe in novels. It is interesting that about the origins of when these come to be, it sounds like some kind of old wives tale that got out of hand, Speaker 3:        Right? Right. I mean, a rhino horn is just keratin, right? It, it's like the same stuff as our fingernails. What if you're not going to eat your fingernails? So there's some peculiar ones out there that are just myths. Stay away from them. But anything that has nutritious, has nutritional value, go for it. Speaker 2:        I love how just the nutrition lines up with the sexual health also. So you shared with us where we can find more menus, and I know that your better sex bundle for men is out now. Where can people find that? Speaker 3:        So you can go straight to eat something sexy.com. You will find the better sex bundle for men there as well. And those lists I talked about, the 10 Best Foods for Men and the 10 Best Foods for Women, definitely check those out. And if you want to get news on when the better sex bundle for women is coming out, be sure to sign up for my mailing list. I actually reply when people write to me from the mailing list. It's actually my favorite part of my job. So yeah, I'll throw away the tasks that I really should be doing, and I'll just sit there writing back and forth with people. Speaker 2:        I love it. Well, I loved our conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know this is the busy season and we get to relax into post Valentine's soon. And yeah, I just really appreciate you. Thank you. Speaker 3:        Oh, thank you so much. Happy romantic night. Be it Valentine's Day or whenever you do it. Speaker 1:        I hope you enjoy this production of The Naked News. Everything created here is for educational and entertainment purposes and should not take the place of talking with a medical or mental health professional. These are tips, but not replacements for individualized support, which you totally deserve. If your sex drive experience or performance is not everything you want it to be, see your doctor or talk to a therapist. Maybe even loop your partner in because as they say, sex is life. Oh, and remember to visit [email protected] to sign up for recess, my Curated wellness newsletter that includes research, health tips, expert guides, recipes, music workouts, fun and more, cheers to delivering your very best life. Speaker 4:        I.  

In this episode, Victoria discusses the concept of awe and its effects on our well-being with writer Rumi Tsuchihashi. Together, they explore the way awe provides an essential human experience of being in the presence of something vast that transcends our understanding of the world. Rumi shares a simple practice for cultivating awe, by noticing and photographing something awe-inspiring for seven days, as a way to cultivate awe in everyday life. She shares some of her writing, which  emphasizes the importance of being open to new experiences and finding beauty in the small moments. Rumi also brings insights from the way her grandparents experienced daily awe and wonder, as well as the benefits of vocalizing and sharing these experiences with others. The two encourage listeners to seek out awe in their own lives and to embrace the beauty and wonder that surrounds them. Thank you to Rumi Tsuchihashi at rumitsuchihashi.com.  Visit her website or find the beautiful writing you here in this episode on Amazon.com.  And thank you to Aldar Kedem for the tunes...Ocean in Motion. You can find The Naked Librarian's Guide to Your First Colonoscopy here. Thank you to our sponsor Mission Flow — marketing and automation for businesses on a mission.  Read the transcript below: Speaker 1 (00:00:00): Have you ever wondered why you feel compelled to say words like Wow or awesome? Turns out these everyday words help us describe big, emotional and sensory experiences known as wonder and awe. Now, science is just now starting to really understand the effects of awe on our wellbeing, and there's a lot to learn. If you want more peace and calm, even happiness in your life, this conversation is meant for you. (00:00:36): There's so many things you can do for your health and wellbeing, yoga, walking, meditation, stretching, running, gardening, strength training, buying organic, a beach vacation. But what if I told you there's a simple practice that helps you feel more present and alive, more connected to the world, and all living things decreases. Stress increases happiness and fills you with the kind of love that brings you to happy tears. And you can do it anytime and any place, whether you're alone or with someone else, it's 100% free. And maybe the very best part requires no conscious effort. In fact, all you have to do is show up. What is this amazing, miraculous, wonderful thing I'm talking about? Sometimes we call it awe, and sometimes we call it wonder. The two experiences seem to exist on a continuum and understanding awe and its effects on our wellbeing is something science is just now starting to understand. (00:01:32): In Brene Brown's fabulous Atlas of the Heart and encyclopedia of emotions and experiences she uses researchers, oic, Weiner, and Johannes Wagman's helpful explanation of the difference between awe and wonder. Wonder inspires the wish to understand and awe inspires the wish to let shine, to acknowledge, and to unite. Hi, I'm Victoria Payne, a health and happiness nerd, and the creator and your host of the Naked Librarian. If you're new here, welcome. I am so glad you're here. You've picked a fantastic episode for your first naked librarian experience. In this episode, I'm going to bring in another definition of awe according to Docker Kelner, a psychologist and awe researcher, you're going to hear it again later in the episode, and that's intentional. This is one of those definitions that's worth writing down. Kelner says, awe is the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends your understanding of the world. (00:02:31): And one of the coolest things about awe is according to keltner, awe can also come in the form of perceived vastness. Let that sink in. This is something we're going to be talking about and exploring in this episode. Now, here's some facts to know about awe. It calms your nervous system by activating your vagus nerve. It does to your brain something very similar to prayer, meditation, and pilgrimage. It deactivates, what's your default network, which is the place we do a lot of our overthinking, negative thoughts and old stories. It helps us understand our place and our connection to the world. Time in nature, movement, meditation even. And this is going to be a whole other episode, psychedelics in courage. Awe, some people are more wired to experience awe, which psychologists believe is a trait because they're more curious and comfortable with the unknown and with what language cannot describe. (00:03:28): But, and this is fabulous news, you can cultivate more on your life by being open to new experiences. And as you'll see in this episode, I believe that writing about our lives helps us experience more wonder and awe because we get to do a double take. We get to conjure up a forgotten moment and ask it to show us why we've remembered it after all these years. In other words, we get to look at our own lives with awe. That's why to better understand awe and how we can cultivate more of it in our lives. I've invited the beautiful writer, Rumi Su chichi, onto the podcast. Rumi's Work showcases the wonder and awe and the ordinary. And her books of tiny essays revealed the magic inside of the little memories and experiences, sometimes known only to us. Rumi is the author of, I Want to Remember This, recognizing Tiny Moments that Make Up a Life. (00:04:21): And I want this for you, mothering What Matters most. She's also the author of Where our Palms Touch and essay that was featured in the modern lump column of the New York Times. I know no better way to talk about awe than to talk to a writer who by birth or by practice captures life in the style of a written photograph. So come with me on this delightful journey and discover why Rumi and I think wa the combination of awe and wonder, just maybe the word of 2024, learn how awe invites us to make experiences. Our teachers in contrast to books or thoughts, hear the story of my own awe experience, which included more than jaw drops and flowing tears. But one more surprising and slightly embarrassing sensation. Learn rumi's, simple practice for exiting gloom and experiencing more awe in just seven days. Think of it as mental weight loss. If you want more peace, calm, joy, wonder, nature, goodness, connection, smiles, energy, reverence and magic in your life. Come a little closer, I've got just the conversation for you. (00:05:39): I am so excited for our conversation today. I've been thinking about this topic for weeks and because I am also really nerdy, I spent the last week specifically reading more about the science of awe and wonder, and I feel like, I don't know, maybe it's age and stage of life, but right now, this is something that I have have my awe glasses on and I'm paying more attention to it. So welcome to the conversation today. I feel like your work specifically peaks at the bits of awe and wonder and our everyday lives. And I'm really curious, is that something that's always been a part of how you've seen the world or did you surprise yourself in terms of what you ended up writing about? Speaker 2 (00:06:54): That's a good question. So the short answer is yes, but I didn't know it. I didn't know. I was looking at the world through the lens of awe and wonder seeking until I read Mary Oliver quote from her poem. Sometimes that goes, instructions for living a life, pay attention, be astonished, tell about it. As soon as I read that my life made sense that, oh, this is what I've been trying to do, didn't all the struggle of what am I supposed to be doing with my life and what is my purpose? And not that I've answered those questions all the way yet, but see reading that like, oh, this is what I've been doing. I've been paying attention, I've been astonished, and I've been trying to tell about it in a world that maybe loves the word wow, but also trivializes it after a while, there's a, okay, now let's get back to work. Speaker 1 (00:08:13): I can relate to that. I feel like I'm definitely guilty. I think earlier you said something accidentally, but I think we might need to make it something. I think you said wa Speaker 2 (00:08:24): Wa I know. Speaker 1 (00:08:27): And I thought, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Rumi, we could start a campaign. There could be T-shirts. More wa, Speaker 2 (00:08:41): More wa. I have never said that, and I think maybe that's what I've been trying to say all my life. Mor, Speaker 1 (00:08:51): I'm with you, Mor bring the, I can just imagine all kinds of great slogans that could be created. I think it's really cool how you connected hearing this has happened to me before too. You hear someone's words, in this case, wonderful Mary Oliver, and you realize, oh, that's it. And it helped you make sense of your life. And I think that's something that's really cool about awe in general is that sometimes instead of helping you make sense of your life, it just blows the doors off and makes you go, okay, not everything's going to make sense. So my job is to marvel and to see it. And I think something that I've been coming back to more is the feeling of I don't want to miss it. I don't want to miss my life because I am going, wow, okay, back to work. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about writing, and it's really great to talk to a writer about this because I feel like this is one of the luxuries that we get as writers is we see something and then we get to recreate it if we really photograph it in language. (00:10:35): And I think of your work that way, and you have these written photographs, sometimes these images that we get to see. And I wanted, before we get too far along, I found a definition of awe from Docker Kelner, and he is a psychologist at University of California Berkeley. You and I were talking about him before we started, and he's done so much research on awe. He has a book, awe, the New Science of Everyday Wonder and how it Can Transform Your Life. And I was just really drawn to the definition that he gives. He defines awe as the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends your understanding of the world. And then he says, there's also this other thing which is perceived vastness. So there's the Grand Canyon, and then there's the thing your 2-year-old says, which is something you beautifully document mothering, and I want this for you. And I think that maybe it's one of the things that I've drawn to as a writer. When I was a little girl, my first experience was writing was poetry. I didn't really know I was writing poetry, I was just writing down things that I saw and experienced. But I think when you use your poet mind, I think everyone has one. It's the perceived vastness a lot of times that we're trying to get down in words, and it doesn't have to be a waterfall or something giant. It can be these little moments. Speaker 2 (00:12:37): Yes. Yeah, I didn't know I was writing poetry either. I didn't save very much of it, but the first time I saw my writing in print was for an elementary school newsletter and a poem that I'd written showed up on the front page. Maybe I knew it was going to come or it wasn't, but it was a Christmas poem and I grew up in a family where we celebrated Christmas ish, meaning it wasn't part of our family tradition or my parents moved to the states from Japan where there wasn't a family Christmas tradition. So we did the decorating, we kind of adopted it, but it was not really integrated into my culture, and I was so curious about what Christmas was and what it meant. And I yearned to feel the way Christmas looked on the outside when I looked at other families that I think I developed this eagle eye vision of taking in all the bits and how people interact and where they talk about it. (00:14:00): And then that translated into a poem that probably because I was so deeply attached to capturing the essence of it, and I was in awe of the way Christmas seemed to make people feel, and that turned into a poem. But I think it's that kind of yearning, looking at the definition of awe, of the vastness, the desire to be connected to something larger. I think I wrote that poem when I was about eight, and I think developmentally that's about the time when you are starting to move into a more organized grownup. There's expectations of you world and away from the sheer immersed and wonder early childhood. So that's an interesting demarcation. Speaker 1 (00:15:04): Yeah, I'm thinking a little bit about what I was like at eight or nine. That's probably also my entry into poetry. I think it's so beautiful the way you described wanting to feel connected to Christmas in a way that you could look around and see through the way the glitters and the lights and the candles, and you could tell there was something emotional to it that you wanted too. Hey, it's Victoria here and I've got a message for all the business owners out there. Does your business or organization have an important mission? Then you need to know about mission flow? Mission flow is an all-in-one sales and marketing platform for purpose-driven businesses. The mission flow platform is specifically designed to empower thought leaders, social entrepreneurs, local and family owned businesses and nonprofits to do more good with comprehensive marketing tools from web building to scheduling to email and SMS automation and the best part, mission flow. Clients get more than tools. They get access to an award-winning marketing strategist, professional copywriter, and amazing customer support team. If you're looking for a better way to market your mission and grow your business, visit get mission flow.com. (00:16:29): I think this almost two sides of the coin related to Oz really interesting because the perceived vastness makes it really accessible. You don't have to take a road trip to see all the wonders of the world or a flight, I suppose the wonders of the US by car, but I recently did see one of the great wonders of the world. I had never really put this on a bucket list. It was just really a coincidence that my husband had a consulting trip to Niagara Falls, New York, and it was in the winter. Wasn't necessarily really a great time to travel there, but of course I thought, well, this is, when else am I going to see this? I'm probably not going to plan a trip just to see Niagara Falls. My main experience with Niagara Falls was cartoons. I don't know if you remember the cartoons where someone would be in a wine barrel and they'd go over the side or maybe some old movie where somebody did that. (00:17:41): And so I didn't have a lot of expectation, but the strangest thing happened when I saw the falls, I started to cry. I was really overwhelmed by it. It was so, so beautiful. I don't even think as much as I love words, I could get it into words. I cried and then this is so strange and my husband's going to die that I am admitting this. I got really turned on from my head to my toe, felt like I could just, we could have gone. We could have left the fall as beautiful as they were. I'm like, where can we go and take care of this because, so I had all of these multiple sensations happening where I'm seeing with my eyes this beautiful thing. Tears are coming, I'm crying. I can't really talk. I'm sort of speechless, and then I am really horny. (00:18:55): It was just this multi-sensory thing that happened. I don't really get it, but I'm just here to testify that sometimes your awe experience can be really big. And by the way, if anyone has not seen Niagara Falls, you really should. Before I would've said, maybe I'll see that in my lifetime, maybe I won't. Now that I have seen it, I feel like everyone should plan a trip and go because it's really, it's hard for your mind to even get it because the waterfall appears to be at street level. And so here's a street and then there's this multiple falls too. I didn't expect that, that there's, it's not just one Niagara Falls. There's multiple falls. So I don't know what you're going to do with that story, Rumi, but I turn it over to you. Oh Speaker 2 (00:19:57): My gosh, I don't think that's being turned on as weird at all. I forget in what language the word orgasm is little death. I'd be Italian. That sounds about right, but I did not research that ahead of time, so we'll have to fact check it. But I do know that Orgasm and Little Death Speaker 1 (00:20:25): Quick edition here, so I looked it up and it's actually French and it's called Petite More, and it refers to a brief loss of weakening of consciousness and refers to the post orgasmic experience where one has a quote, little death. If you think of experiences as teachers, it makes sense that an orgasm would appear on the awe menu. Speaker 2 (00:20:46): When I think about that, it's surrendering the limitations of our body or sense of self that I begin here and end here to something so much bigger and that it's a kind of death. It asks us to give something over to be held in a bigger experience. I was talking to a friend about the experience of, well, we're going to take it from Niagara Falls to a piece of chocolate, but an incredibly delicious truffle, something rich and delicious. And she was telling me that even while she is enjoying the chocolate, she was resisting savoring it. And I said, well, yeah, to savor is to acknowledge that this too will end. You have to give yourself over to this experience that the boundaries of Eunice, you're dissolving into this experience and also consenting to knowing that it's a finite experience. Speaker 1 (00:22:08): And maybe that's the magic of the awe experience is that we can have this over and over again in life. We can, especially when we begin to really notice. And one of the things that I really love about life is giving language to experiences that maybe you've had and you've never thought to call it awe or to consider it as wonder. And so in thinking about these experiences of wonder, one of the things that you write about in both of your tiny essay collections, which I adore, is your experience as both a child and as a mom. And we get kind of both sides of that. I know that one of your essays was published in the New York Times series, modern Love, and I wanted to give our listeners a little taste of your writing. Could you read that for us? Speaker 2 (00:23:27): I'd be happy to. The editor at the New York Times gave the title where our Palms Touch, so here it is, 4-year-old Me doesn't want to stand besides Sat. Sat at this busy intersection in Victoria, British Columbia ever since my parents moved us from Tokyo. This grandpa my favorite OG Cian seems different. So I scooch away bit by bit, but then my right foot falls into the crosswalk. I come perilously close to oncoming traffic. Ian's hand quickly envelops mine. He doesn't yank yell or even gasp, he just holds on safe. Again. I look up Ian returns a soft gaze through his black broom glasses and soon a liquid tingle love. As I now know, it springs from where our palms touch. Speaker 1 (00:24:31): Oh wow. Oh, I'm doing it. I'm going to go with wa. I hear it in this piece. Something that I really appreciate about your work, which is this almost discarded moment in our life. No one's going to stand up and give a toast about it or it probably won't get included in your book jacket, and yet you give it meaning and life both in the memory and in the telling. What inspired this piece? Speaker 2 (00:25:20): That's such a good question. The first time I wrote about it, I think it was in response to an early memory or your earliest memory. And this is one that sprang from one I clearly recall. Even though it was so small and it wasn't eventful, no one else will recall this even if my grandpa were still alive. I doubt he'd remember this either. So it's something that lives just with me. I and what inspired it may have been years later when I was a mom and raising little kids toddlers and living inside the monotony that is parenting a toddler, the constant wiping of noses, putting on shoes, the feeding, the schedules, the most regimented. And if I couldn't zoom in closer to see what was beautiful about this moment, it all seemed like just a mind numbing waste of at time, what am I doing? I had to create meaning or else I am not sure that I would've survived those years. And it helped me see, it forced me to see that life has not made up of the highs that our society celebrates. The vast majority of our waking hours are all these tiny things. And if I wanted my life to feel meaningful, I had to go in there. So I think that desperate need to survive a difficult time in my adult life combined with combing of my own early memories that inspired this piece, Speaker 1 (00:27:41): That really resonates with me as a mom who's raised little kids and now they're older. My youngest is 15, and I feel like when I'm out and I see families out with little children, I see so much beauty and wonder and delicacy in the interactions. And I know that a lot of times that parent is living out what may be a grueling day, and I see the little shoes and the jackets and I get it now why? Strangers will tell you, don't blink. You'll miss it. It's a lot easier to be the observer than the one who's experiencing it. And yet I feel like what you're saying is you're helping draw attention to, we need to notice that our lives are made up of these little moments and especially when they're hard to find the meaning in what it is that we're doing. And there's so much poetry just in that practice. (00:29:06): Hey, it's Victoria here, and we'll get right back to our episode in just a moment. But first I have a question for you. Are you 45 or older? Do you know someone who is a few answered yes to either of these questions? I have the perfect gift for you or your loved ones. It's thoughtful, funny, and original because nothing says you care. And I got your back like the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy and activity book for grownups. The American Cancer Society's Guidelines move the colonoscopy age from 50 to 45 years old. So if you haven't scheduled yours, now is the time. This activity book is the companion experience to colonoscopy with 10 fun-filled activities and loads of hilarious trivia to keep you entertained while you count down from limited diet to final purge. There's even a colon maze you can do while you're waiting for the nurse to call you back for your procedure. Ordering your copy is easy. You can get yours on Amazon. Just search the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy. Did I mention we're number one in the colorectal category? In the meantime, make your list of friends and family. You want to delight in this rare and exciting gift and as we say over at the Naked Librarian Bottoms up. Speaker 3 (00:30:16): Yeah, Speaker 2 (00:30:17): For sure. I didn't realize how much my grandparents showed up in my writing until other people started pointing it out and also telling me that some of my grandparents stories were their favorites. And after someone said that to me, I sat back and wondered why is that? And around age nine 10, our family, we'd been living in the states, so my parents and my two siblings, we moved back to Japan and moved in with my grandparents. So shortly after that Christmas poem, I was in Japan and spending time with my grandparents whose lives were coming towards the end was a slow ending. I noticed such a difference in quality between what they seemed to pay attention to, what my parents are paying attention to. They're both adults, but what they're focused on was different. And in hindsight, it was almost like as I was growing into this being a more adult self, my grandparents were finally at a stage where they could reclaim the beauty in the small things. (00:31:42): And so my memories with them, and also because they don't leave the house very much, was all very focused on the little things. The way my grandmother carefully peeled the closest thing in the states would be a pomelo, so a winter orange and how carefully she'd peel it and also peel the little ribs off of the flesh of the fruit, spend 15, 20 minutes getting it all pristine before she ate it. And I did not understand why she would take so much time, but it was a whole ritual. It was a reverence for the fruit and the joy of biting into it. And the minute that the citrus oil releases in the air was all really big deal to her. And it was interesting to watch as I was leaving the phase where I lived in that world, watching them sort of as their lives got a little smaller, expand into that awareness. So being a writer who's trying to capture these little moments, I think it keeps coming back to that because that was with my grandparents is where I first started. Noticing that kind of everyday awe, like oh, an orange, the way the oils fly in the air and that you can smell that on your fingers, all that stuff that seems little, but if you can't feel that, how else are you going to feel raw in your life? Speaker 1 (00:33:21): Yeah. Well, and I think, again, you're just really helping me think about how accessible is, and we know that there's so many health benefits. We're a culture who loves health hacks. I do. Well, I think some people don't care about them, but people like me love things like health hacks. But I feel like this is a wellbeing practice. The next time I peel an orange, I'm going to think about this. I am a weird citrus eater where I like all the piss. And when I was a little girl, my grandmother, I asked her if I could eat a grapefruit. I loved citrus fruit. This particular grandmother, I don't think she really knew this about me. And she was very cautious around wastefulness. And she said, well, are you going to eat the whole thing? And I said, yeah, yes, I will. And so she cut it for me and the way that you can eat it with a spoon, and she sliced it up and I ate all the good parts and then I ripped out the inner parts. And so when I was done, there was only the white and the skin. And my grandmother felt so bad because she thought she had shamed me into eating all of the grapefruit because of what she told me. She didn't know that that's what I liked. I liked, and I am still like that when I order a cocktail, I eat the citrus that's inside at the end. My husband has told me it's a little antisocial and adorable. (00:35:20): But yeah, it's these, and you just reminded me of that story. That's a story that I know that kind of lives in my mind. I think grandparents are a wonderful treasure trove of stories if you were fortunate to have them. I didn't really have grandfathers. I had a very sickly grandfather and then a grandfather that had passed away before I was born. And so I only had the grandmother experience and they both were characters, both in their own ways, but I feel like I always want people to be writers. So I feel like if someone was looking for ways to access meaning in their lives peek at your grandparents because in your experiences with them, because as a child they undoubtedly did things that were different than your parents that made you go, wait, what? What's happening around here? My very sickly grandfather, for example, he had had a trache me before I was born. (00:36:35): So he had a hole in where his throat was and he wore a handkerchief. And when he talked to you, he had to use a little vibration machine that he would put on his throat. And so he talked like a robot. And it made him really scary to me as a kid. I kind of didn't want, we called him Daddy Rab. I didn't really want Daddy Rab to talk to me or need anything from me. And it was kind of fine that he wasn't interested in grandkids, but as a small child, you couldn't not stare or just watch that happen because it was your own world of wonder. I didn't need to go to the fair. My grandfather could really open my eyes to something unique and entertaining. (00:37:32): So I feel like grandparents are this treasure trove and also some of what we've been talking about the natural world. And I know that you have a lot of experiences that your work has taken you to nature places. I know that you work with the Japanese gardens in Seattle, and when I was reading, I want to remember this, I encountered, I don't like saying I have a favorite of yours, Rumi, because I don't know if you can see, but I have a bunch of little dogeared marks in your book. But I did find one that just left me just with a smile, but also wonder. And that one is called What's Your Secret? And if you have it, I'd love you to read us that one too. Speaker 2 (00:38:28): I'd be glad to. What's your secret? That morning, the last of the golden ginkgo leaves were falling, leaving the branches bare. The air was still and the pond a crystalline mirror of the blue sky and the frosted pine needles hovering above it. Why is the garden so beautiful this time of year? I said, not really expecting an answer from the person beside me, he a seven foot tall, red-haired, former Buddhist monk and a regular Seattle Japanese garden visitor bent down to answer me. It's because the most exquisite beauty lives in close proximity to death. He said he continued talking after pausing to study my scrunched up forehead. (00:39:20): And if you can inhabit that same space, people will be drawn to you without knowing why. They'll ask you over and over again, what's your secret? Is there a backstory to this one? So somewhat so yes, the red hair Buddhist monk is a real person. One day he appeared and he came all the time. And then I didn't see him after a while, so he is a bit of an enigma. But yes, he studied. Buddhism was a monk in Japan and for some reason was living temporarily in Seattle. And so he was a very noticeable figure just by appearance. He was so tall and so thin and had such bright red hair. (00:40:17): So in November in Seattle, the Japanese garden there, I was working there at the time, and November is not a very popular month. Everyone descends on the garden to see the fall color. It's hundreds and hundreds of people a day going through the space, taking pictures, admiring the red and the gold of all the leaves. But then once it's all gone in November, it gets really, really quiet. So I was that one morning the fog was lifting off of the pond and the pond itself is not, it's kind of green most of the time if the water isn't moving, but sometimes when it's still, it is the perfect, perfect mirror, like I said in there. And it was otherworldly. And also it was a strange feeling of this is so beautiful and yet there's nobody here. And it did make me wonder, what is it that makes everyone decide that what's beautiful is to come see the fall color? (00:41:26): And there's no doubt it is beautiful. But then when the popular season goes away, there's this whole other beauty of sparseness that comes up that's in my opinion, even more sublime. But then there wasn't anybody there to witness it except me and the tall monk. And I did not expect an answer. I was so stunned by how incredibly beautiful it was that I just blurted it out. And also when he said, oh, it's the proximity to death, I actually, I had an office on the other side of the garden at the time, and I was so stunned by his answer that I ran back to my office and wrote the gist of this story down before I forgot it because I didn't think I would remember the details later. But for years I have thought about what is it about the proximity to death that s possible? And so we touched on this earlier, it's that dissolving of self to be held in something larger. It's something we yearn for, but we have to consent to give something of ourselves over. We have to consent to understanding of our bodies in this moment as a finite ephemeral. But something about just saying okay to that makes you feel so alive that maybe you're turned on, if that makes sense. Speaker 1 (00:43:18): Yeah, right. And maybe it doesn't have to make sense. Maybe it's just a physical reaction and a reminder that yeah, I am alive and there is life in me. If you're drawn to Rumi's work like I am, I just wanted to jump in here real fast and tell you how to find her books first. She may already be in your favorite bookstore, so check there or even ask them to order. You can certainly find her collections on Amazon. And let me say they make a wonderful and original gift. I'll add some links to the show notes. So if you're driving or walking like I do when I listen to podcasts, just keep doing your thing and check the notes later. (00:44:03): I feel a little envious of your job that you had when you were at the Japanese guard and the proximity that you had to these beautiful settings. And you live in Seattle. I live in Portland. The rest of the world probably should be envious of the beauty that we have in very close proximity to us. I think it's a big reason why people live in the now, don't feel too envious because we also have to go through some of the harder seasons that we are currently in. But I know not everyone lives somewhere, right? Someone might be in a very urban setting and outside their window is concrete, or they might live in a giant skyscraper and all they really have is sky and whatever green or plants they might encounter inside. And I think about that often. When I think about some of the wellness remedies that I use to help me feel better from the inside out, a lot of it does have to do with going outside or in the wintertime I've been focused on trying to grow herbs. (00:45:26): I have 'em in my office window. I'm mediocre at it, but I am trying, I have baby chicks in my bathroom right now. I'm trying everything. You probably shouldn't necessarily do what I do, but I am attracted to those kind of reminders because I think that I'm a lot like the wow culture in many ways where I can get really busy, something can be amazing, and we don't have a lot of time or we don't give ourselves a lot of time to really pause. I love that in your story, you have this conversation and you run back to your office because that feeling of, I'm not sure this'll be there later if I try to go back and really touch this. So I feel like one of the things I'd like to help people think about today is ways in which they can cultivate awe in the ordinary perceived vastness way that we started with. What are some of the practices that you have or that you recommend? Speaker 2 (00:46:40): One of my practices is a seven day challenge. It was a self-imposed challenge. And I write about this in my first book. I want to remember this. So the idea is to give yourself a reason to pay attention to maybe something you've overlooked. And so for seven days, I have some friends that I regularly send text messages to, but I tell 'em, okay, I'm starting a seven day sentence. And usually this happens when I feel like I'm stuck in a rut. I can't get out of feeling gloomy, and I make a point of noticing something worth photographing. And it's not Instagram worthy, just something that wanted to be remembered. And then if there's a caption to go with, I'll write a caption and then for seven days I send this to my friend. So it doesn't go on social media necessarily. This is just my own practice of waking up and there'd be days when I'd forget, and I'm running around at 11:58 PM looking for anything. (00:48:09): And there's one night I did it when the house I lived in at the time, it had the steps up to the house, there was the skeleton of a leaf stuck to it and a heart shape. And I took a picture of it and one of my friends was so moved by seeing that, that he asked me to send him a higher res version of the picture so he could have it on his office wall to remember that if you look in the most unexpected ways, the beauty of life will be there. So this is not even a green leaf outside, it's the ribs of a leaf stuck to the concrete. And so that's what I've done. And sometimes even in an urban sitting, a random bird would be perched on a wire or on the edge of someone's roof. Birds are in urban setting. So that's something I notice when I'm in places where there's not a lot of nature. It can also be the twinkle in somebody's eye that you passed and you wouldn't necessarily photograph that person, but I would remember and I would try to take a picture of the setting late or something like that. So the forcing function of making sure I notice and record and share. So this goes back to the Mary Oliver, pay attention, be astonished, tell about it. When I lose track, I may follow that quite literally for seven days and something moves. Speaker 1 (00:50:05): Yeah, it's a great little instruction now as I hear it. And I do think that especially when you talked about it as feeling gloomy or you've been going through something and you're just feeling like I can't seem to get my mojo back, or I am sort of done feeling gloomy, but I don't really know how to navigate that. I like how this is very simple and it can happen anywhere. I really, really love the example of the, what did you call it? The, you didn't call it the glitter in someone, the twinkle. The twinkle in someone's eyes. I think that people who smile at you that you don't know, I try to be that person when can, when it feels right is one of the coolest experiences. You can have that feeling of someone's warm smile. They don't really know you. They're just saying, I wish it's nice to see you out in the world. I wish you a wonderful day. It's just that exchange and it's hard not to smile back at them. And it's been a while since I've looked at the research on smiling, but it's very hard to fake a toothy grin. And so we tend to smile at people with our lips closed that we don't know. So if you're ever out and about and somebody just gives you that radiant smile, it's just a shot to the heart. Speaker 2 (00:51:46): It really is. That reminds me of, I was in Tokyo over the holidays, and as I was walking, I overheard two women talking. Well, one woman was doing most of the talking, but she was talking to someone that I think they were neighbors. The other woman was walking the dog and just the exuberant joy she had over the neighbor's dog, look at you. You've gotten so big. How adorable are you? And she was allowed about it and would not stop. And part of me was like, oh, I wonder if this one, it feels like being stopped for this long for her dog to be admired, but risk being that ebullient about something ordinary, your neighbor's walking a dog you haven't seen in a while, being goofy about your puppy is so cute. Speaker 1 (00:52:57): Yeah, it's worth putting our hearts out there. Sometimes it tends to go, well, every now and then somebody won't know what to do with it. But that's okay because it was really more about acting on your feelings. And I feel like it actually, Rumi, this reminds me of when I, do you remember when I proposed to you at the writing? Speaker 2 (00:53:27): Yes. Speaker 1 (00:53:28): Yeah. Sometimes when I am really, maybe we know that awe can be not just an experience, but also a trait. And I think I might be a little wired toward this because sometimes I just really get this feeling that I am connected to all people and then sometimes it's a particular person. And so when we were at the writing retreat in Santa Fe, I had not met you, and I don't know if you know this, but I had encountered you when you were looking for tea. I was getting coffee and you were looking for tea, and we maybe said one or two words, I think the tea's there something really profound. And then I went and I took my seat and then you were looking for a spot and you ended up sitting by me and I had already had the heart flutter when I encountered you at the tea. (00:54:31): I'm like, I like her. And then you came and sat by me and I was like, yay me. I am going to get to actually talk to her. And it's so cool because this was before I'd read any of your work. I didn't really know what you wrote about those kinds of things. It was just that feeling that I hope people get in life where you just know that this person you should get to know. And we did. I got to know you a little bit, but I also really felt like this is someone that could really help me with my writing. I don't know how, because at that point, we hadn't exchanged any writing, and I didn't know really if you were looking for that. (00:55:21): But for people listening at this writing retreat, they had this, I think it was a bubble arch. And we had already been talking and gone to lunch and we were about to walk back through the doors and underneath the bubble arch, I was like, Rumi, could you be my writing person? Can I give you some of my writing? You give me some of your writing. I don't really remember what I said, but I do feel like there was this, I don't know where it fits on the wall continuum, but I felt it. And so I think that we can, that twinkle in someone's eye, that kind of magnetic feeling that we have, it's worth being a weirdo and seeing what happens. Speaker 2 (00:56:15): Yes. I'm so glad you reminded me of that moment of standing under the arch and being proposed to was so talk about a heart flutter and feeling was mutual. And I think ultimately when you talked about health benefits are keeping our hearts closed as we tend to do growing up, facing disappointments, things not going our way, fear of being judged, fear of being rejected. We accumulate all these scars growing up and the only way to heal, and it's like a badly healed wound. We walk around with a bunch of badly healed wounds. And the alchemy to actually make those wounds heal properly is to open ourselves to those kinds of heart fluttering moments and give it voice. And I think it's funny, I'm really glad I accidentally said wa, because even Dacker Kaner and his research said that there's awe tends to have utterances like vocalization attached to it. And that he says that it's across the board universally that we give like, Ooh, there's a vocalization attached to the experience. So there's something very inherent in the sharing and connecting hearts, connecting our experiences coming out of our single person shells that awe spontaneously allows us to do if we let it carry us. Speaker 1 (00:58:22): Yes. And I feel like in our close relationships with our partners and our children and our friends, I think this vocalization has a place because I feel like often I am in awe of the love that my friends or loved ones have for me. They show to each other. I'm frequently moved when I see my children love and show up for each other. And I am married to somebody who really thrives on words of affirmation and lucky him. I love to talk and say out loud what I see and feel. And it's been a really beautiful part of our relationship because I will say, this is what I saw. This is how I felt. I think that that's this other place that awe can exist in our lives. Earlier you were talking about photographing as a way of finding something that is worthy to kind of help you get out that funk. (00:59:39): And it reminded me of a gratitude practice. And I feel like there's so many ways to practice gratitude, which is there's so much science and a whole other episode on that. But we don't have to always journal our gratitudes much that I love to write. We don't have to write them down, we can speak them out loud. We can just see the bird out our window and put our hand to our heart and go, ah, that's so beautiful. And the funny thing that happens is when you do, sometimes you will have more and more feelings. I've often cried at hummingbirds just how beautiful, just sweet and tender. When you allow yourself to go there and be with it, you might have your own Niagara Falls experience. And I think that's why the science is starting to show up and support this, is that we need more of this. And there is this beautiful endless supply. Speaker 2 (01:00:47): Yes, I feel that way about being, my children are teenagers too, two and these days, all they have to do is give a heartfelt thank you. And I am crying Speaker 1 (01:01:06): As a mom. I get that. I really do. Or sometimes it's, how was your day? What are you asking about me? Do you mean me? You're looking over your shoulder. Is there somebody else here? I think they mean me. And yes, it is this beautiful thing. And I also found out that my 15-year-old is a words of affirmation guy, which was stunning. We took the whole quiz and test. I was so stunned because typically you give him a compliment, okay, yeah, fine. He doesn't act on the outside. It really matters. So yes, I've started to with him when he asked me how I'm doing or how was the dinner with my friends to say back to him, I really like it when you do that for me. It's so great. Well, Rumi, I feel like we could talk on and on. I've so enjoyed our conversation. I wanted to share with my listeners how they can follow your work and stay in touch with you. Where can we find you? Speaker 2 (01:02:24): The easiest place to find me is on my website. You can go to hello rumi.co. That's HELL o.co. That'll take you to my website and can read the New York Times essay that I wrote on there. I also have linked to my Substack newsletter and the books that I've written and find all the information and all the things we talked about. They're on my website. Speaker 1 (01:03:01): Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here, and I am excited for my listeners to get some of your work in their hands. Speaker 2 (01:03:14): Thank you. It's been such a pleasure. And yes, go out and find some WA today. Speaker 1 (01:03:22): Find some wa. I hope you enjoyed this production of The Naked News. Everything created here is for educational and entertainment purposes and should not take the place of talking with a medical or mental health professional. And just a hunch here, I think the health community will be big fans of awe. But don't just take my word for it. Ask, see what they say. The truth is we're very new to understanding awe scientifically, but traditions from all over the world have known about its splendor for thousands of years. And if you're looking to incorporate more awe, try rumi's little experiment or take a walk among the trees or plant some seedlings and watch them grow. And if you want more wellness news delivered to your inbox and always be the first to know about a new episode of the podcast, head over to naked librarian.com and become a subscriber. In addition to the Naked Librarian Podcast, I also publish recess and monthly wellness newsletter with curated health hacks, recipes, book music recommendations, fun and more, and you get it all for free when you become a naked librarian subscriber. Thank you for tuning in today. I made this for you and cheers to living your very best life.  

In this episode, Victoria Payne chats with her long-time friend Angie Parker Yoakum, a life coach and first-time author, who's hitting the big 5-0. They dive into how milestone birthdays are perfect times for a bit of self-reflection and personal growth. Angie opens up about her own journey of figuring herself out and how crucial it is to really know yourself to craft the life and relationships you're after. She gives us a sneak peek into her book, "Before You Say I Do: Questions Every Person Should Ask," which is all about asking the tough questions about past experiences, values, and future dreams, both for you and your partner. Angie's big on knowing your worth and not settling for less in relationships. She also opens up about how her family background shaped her views on love and relationships. All in all, it's a heart-to-heart on why knowing yourself inside out is key to a fulfilling and meaningful life. A big thanks to Angie Parker Yoakum! Look for her book : Before You Say I Do: Questions Every Person Should Ask...out soon on Amazon.  And thank you to Seth Parson for his music. This episode features his track "The Sun is Out."    Show transcript below:  Speaker 1 (00:01): Big birthdays, we approach them with some trepidation, dread, maybe excitement. But what if you could use the runway to 50 or 60 or 70 or 40 as a way to know yourself better? Because we can't have the life or relationships we want if we haven't done the work to know ourselves and become the person of our dreams. Yep, I said it. You are who you've been waiting for. (00:36): We've all got them. People who change our lives, people we can grow with, and if we're lucky people we can grow old with. And speaking of getting old or what my 78-year-old father likes to call getting older, I am so glad you tuned into today's conversation because I'm going to introduce you to one of the wisest and most interesting women you are bound to meet. And she just so happens to be one of my oldest friends. And I promise you, if you ever find yourself in the same room with Angie Parker Yoakum, you're going to have a meaningful conversation. You'll leave their thinking about your answers and likely inspired to dig a little deeper. If you're new to the Naked Librarian, welcome. I'm Victoria Payne, a writer, storyteller, recovering English professor and total health nerd, and also your host. I created The Naked Librarian because I wanted more honest conversation about women's health and happiness. (01:34): It's my hope that the show gives you practical tips and food for thought because in my ever expanding Girlfriend Circle, I know one thing for sure. We are all in it together. So let me tell you more about Angie Parker Yoakum. She is a life coach, first time author, mom to a beautiful teenage daughter and an all-star human being that you're going to fall in love with. In this episode that I've entitled Route 50, we dive into the mindful journey of turning 50 in a modern age. Because let's face it, ladies, it's both a personal milestone and potentially a meltdown. Your body, brain, hormones, life, job, relationships, everything has aged. And it could be hard to take the good with the bad, but what if you could use your road to 50 or 60 or 70 or 40, maybe 30 as a way to know yourself better? (02:28): Because as do hear in our conversation, we can't have the life or relationships we want if we haven't done the work to know ourselves and become the person of our dreams. Yep, I said it. You are who you've been waiting for, and that's exactly what Angie and I talk about today. We dive into regret what we learned or didn't learn from our parents, parenting loss and what we would tell our 25-year-old self who has yet to embark on the journey and learn the wisdom that we now have for better or worse in our gosh dang back pocket. And we want to give it to you. Now, Angie's book is coming out soon, so this conversation is a bit of a preview and also listening in to two old friends talk about life and all they've learned along the way. And bonus, whenever you listen to this episode, I just want you to know that it airs on Angie's 50th birthday. How cool is that? So you are here celebrating it with us. So come with me and Angie as we put all this stuff together. We made this episode for you, Angie, do you remember how we met? Speaker 2 (03:39): So we were at UPS, we worked at UPS together, and Victoria was this young southern belle little tender. What were you like 19? Such a little peach. And we were really lucky in the whole hub of Swan Island, UPS to work in this little corner called the hazardous responder section, which they had one just on each, it was just two in the whole hub, if you know what I'm talking about. In UPS, just the warehouse. But there were two ends to where it was literally what, six of us and Victoria and I were two of the six. And we just bonded. We became friends and she learned about my little quirks of, what was it you made quiche? I'm just really, really picky. So I think she maybe asked to drink some of my water. And I was like, no, Speaker 1 (04:43): You're actually not picky. What you are is very selective around anything around germs. And so you love food and all kinds of food and all types of food that it could be, but in addition to not knowing me well and wanting me to take a sip out of your water, you also were not interested in the egg rolls one of our colleagues had made at home. And I remember taking a bite and you going almost knocking it out of my hand and saying, you don't know what his kitchen is. You haven't been there, you haven't seen it. You need to think hard. You were asking questions back then. You were like, you need to think hard before you put this into your mouth. But it was an endearing quality. I could tell you cared about me. I mean, not at first when you were like, no, you can't have my water. And I was like, but I'm super thirsty. And you're like, no, not Speaker 2 (05:50): Even a waterfall. I didn't offer a waterfall. Is that what Speaker 1 (05:54): Happened eventually? No, we didn't really do that back then. You were like, I don't share, sorry, I don't share my drinks. And then later on, you had other redeeming qualities. We used to listen to music and dance around and we had walkie talkies and we had all of our inside jokes. And I think one of your big claims to fame should be that if Angie and I hadn't met, I don't think I would have any of my three sons because Angie introduced me to their father and that relationship didn't work out. But I'm very grateful for it because that's how I became a mom. That is each of those human beings. Speaker 2 (06:47): Wait, wait, wait. However, the water, I told her no to him Speaker 1 (06:56): Sort of. I mean, actually I think you did introduce us, but yeah, you were kind of like, no, but the two of you had your own kind of funny friendship as well. Speaker 2 (07:10): Yeah, I saw 'em to this day. A thousand percent. Yeah. Speaker 1 (07:15): It's so pertinent for the questions that you have people ask on this journey to 50 about themselves and about their lives. I definitely was not asking any question when I was 19, other than am I attracted to this person? Speaker 2 (07:32): Exactly. Speaker 1 (07:33): That was the question. Do they seem safe enough to go out on a date with Do I think I will have a good time? Speaker 2 (07:44): Exactly. Speaker 1 (07:45): Is he a good kisser? These were the, you Speaker 2 (07:50): See, I know. No, seriously, exactly. Does he deserve my time? You know what I mean? It is. The other questions, the reverse questions to where I mean, but could, should have would've, and like you said, you wouldn't have your three babies. It is just a beautiful thing. It really is. And it's been for almost 30 years. Speaker 1 (08:18): Yeah, almost 30 years. Because you like to make fun of me being a 19-year-old baby. But you were a 20-year-old baby. Speaker 2 (08:26): I I did not realize we were like a year behind each other. I just felt like you were just young, just sweet little peach Speaker 1 (08:35): And your family was so welcoming to me and I really got, I think our friendship really fast tracked once I got to know your family, and I love both of your parents, but your dad was so awesome and I've got so many great stories about that. So I'm really excited for other people to get to know you because I've gotten to get to know this really cool, amazing person for almost 30 years. I know you've got a lot of wisdom, and that's what we're going to talk about today. (09:18): Hey, it's Victoria here, and I've got a message for all the business owners out there. Does your business or organization have an important mission? Then you need to know about mission flow? Mission Flow is an all in one sales and marketing platform for purpose-driven businesses. The mission flow platform is specifically designed to empower thought leaders, social entrepreneurs, local and family owned businesses and nonprofits to do more good with comprehensive marketing tools from web building to scheduling to email and SMS automation. And the best part, mission flow. Clients get more than tools. They get access to an award-winning marketing strategist, professional copywriter, and amazing customer support team. If you're looking for a better way to market your mission and grow your business, visit get mission flow.com. I know you and me, we could talk on and on about our lives and about the things that we think are important about what we had for dinner, how much we love our kids. We could just really talk on and on. But today what we're going to talk about is a really cool project that you've been doing where you've been inviting people into turning 50, which I know your birthday's going to be here soon. Soon. We're just weeks away. This podcast is probably going to come out right around your birthday. That's my goal. Speaker 2 (10:52): Yay. Speaker 1 (10:55): Yeah. So I want to hear a little bit about this project and how you decided that you wanted to bring people with you around this experience of what I'm calling mindfully turning 50. Speaker 2 (11:12): Yes. Well, for me, mindfully turning 50 is not feeling any negativity or regrets about such an age. 50 is 50. I mean, you have more of your life that is over and ahead versus there's not a lot more to go unless God gives you 30, 40, 50 more years. But the way that I see it is, and especially where I am now, it's just very exciting. It's a place where I have experienced and my journey through life has been something to where a lot of people haven't experienced. Even if it's travel, whatever it is, I know I have a lot to offer and it's like, come on, join with me, join with me on this happy journey. To me, it's just 50. I feel like I'm 34, you know what I mean? My health, everything is here, which is great, but I feel young, I feel good. I'm in a different space, and I just really want people to come along and understand that 50 doesn't have to be dreadful. Or any age where people feel some type of way or feel a lot of regret or so much time has passed or they don't have time, more years in front of them, I don't feel that way. I'm really, really excited and I just want people to come along. Speaker 1 (12:59): I'm excited for you as your friend who's known you so long, I wanted to talk a little bit about this idea of turning 50 and not being filled with regret. Because you mentioned that if you make it to 50, you've lived already more than half of your life for most of us. And if you're lucky, you're going to get a couple more decades, maybe you'll be one of the people that turns 100, we don't know. But how do you not have regrets? Is there some kind of personal work or journey that somebody needs to go on to feel that way? Or is it just like, yeah, don't worry about all that. Forget all that stuff. Speaker 2 (13:57): For me, I was blessed to, early on in my early twenties, I started to do the hair of celebrities and just I guess celebrities, NBA players and different upper echelon, financially wise people. And then I also had a chance to travel the world. And then once I got married, then I had my child, I able, I felt like it was stages. So I mean, I experienced a lot. I had a very fruitful life. So once different things started to happen or once challenges started to come or appear in my life, I just looked at that as a challenge. Like, oh, this I am now. I just always looked at it as stages. So as I have gotten older with those stages, I have also learned to do introspective work because as you get into relationships and things start to surface, it's like, well, wait a minute. (15:15): If I'm so great or if I had this great life, then what is this? What is really happening? And so once you start to do introspective work and looking in and start to look at your family of origin and connecting the dots and figuring out, okay, oh, I needed this or this is who I am, this is what I want, this is what I need. All of those things, when you start to look at that and just really connect it to yourself, then you kind of figure out like, okay, no. Well, you can't know or make up what you didn't know. So for me, there's no regrets with that. I am where I am now for a reason, and that's just pretty much it. So for me, there's no regrets. Speaker 1 (16:09): I think that's a really important distinction that you can have had experiences where you felt like, boy, I really wish I would've known that sooner, or I wish that I could have understood this, but it was really outside of my control. I had the information I had, I did the best I could do. So I'm not going to feel regret. I'm going to try to take that wisdom, maybe apply it to myself, teach it to others, but regret kind of implies that we're stewing on it. I feel like there are a few things in life worth having regrets for mistakes that we've made where maybe we did know a little better, but we did it anyway out of some other reason or cause. But I think the way that we're talking about regrets today is something I can get on board with this idea that we come into this world, into our families, we learn what they teach us and what they show us, and that's our headstart on life. And then we grow and we acquire from there. And it takes truly a lifetime to understand some of these things. So you've been doing this toward a 50 asking questions. You wrote a book and your book is called Before You Say, I do Questions Every Person Should Ask, and I thought it would be fun if I asked you a few of these questions. Speaker 2 (18:02): Oh, mg, who knew Speaker 1 (18:06): If you're tuning in and you're listening, the book's organized in different sections like historical questions, family questions, et cetera. So I thought it would be good for the audience to learn a little bit about you. When I ask you one of these questions. I know it was a big inspiration for your book. One of the questions is, did I know my mother or father? What was the relationship dynamic between my parents? Were they married, divorced in another situation? And how did my family's story shape or influence my views on love and relationships? Speaker 2 (18:49): Oh, please. Speaker 1 (18:50): And before you answer, what I'd really like is for us to show the listeners how these questions work by you sort of being a case study. Speaker 2 (19:05): For sure. For sure. The questions like myself, they're layered just how she pretty much is one question, but it was like four questions in one. And I do a disclaimer. I don't want you guys to be overwhelmed, but honestly, that is just how I think, and the book is the way that I speak and the way that I think. So with my parents, I don't remember exactly how it's acts, I need to go get my book, but I think with my parents, they both came from backgrounds that they decided to make a 180, just a real change in their lives. My dad came from Nebraska and it just wasn't an ideal situation. It wasn't bad, but he had a single mother and he was more responsible for his family, and he got into the service and then he came to the northwest, Portland, Oregon and started his life and he met my mother, who was his Sunday school student. (20:17): I don't know if you knew that, Victoria, but they migrated my grandmother and grandfather from Arkansas to find better opportunities. And that is where my parents met. But both of them, I don't know if my mother was really trying to make a change or a difference. She was 18 when she got married to my father, she started having children immediately. And when she had me, she was about 34 and I'm the eighth child. But what happened was they just created this family, a very Christian bible-based organized religion and home love, full of love family. That one thing that stood out to me out of all the things, now don't get me wrong, I came from love. My father was present, my mother was present, and they could just do what only they can do if you're a parent. You know what I'm saying? However, one thing that stood out to me and my personality is pretty fiery and they didn't argue. Yeah, no disagreements, none. So for me, when I got a little older and had boyfriends and different things, one thing as I started to do the introspective work, I learned that I kind of didn't know how to resolve conflict lovingly and respectfully for me in certain situations, although it was demonstrated, a lot of things were demonstrated, but for my personality, things weren't really spoken or a lot of instructions weren't given. So my parents did the best that they could. Speaker 1 (22:12): Were your parents aware that you had opinions and things to say that they might not agree with? Or was it more like you didn't see anybody arguing, so you just kept your thoughts to yourself? Speaker 2 (22:29): I didn't see anyone arguing, and I don't think the arguments or conflict resolution came up until I got into relationships. And then by that time, I'm either fighting literally fist fighting with boyfriends, I mean, crazy stuff. Yeah, exactly. Or it just wasn't a thing. So I am positive that they knew I was a fiery little soul, but did it come up with them or I think it was more important to me with relationships, relationship wise, because all of us are relational, and once you bring whatever or don't know or whatever, you didn't get it ironed out through your childhood or whatever. It comes into your adult relationships. So we had conversations, but I don't think I really started to have conversations or the real conversations didn't happen until my dad was starting to pass in like 20 17, 20 18. And that's when I started to be like, wait a minute, why don't we, I just started to ask questions. (23:43): And then my mom, because I'm the youngest and most of my siblings didn't ever really question her, just what they said when, and they were great examples. They walked the walk and talk the talk. But as I got older and I just started to question things, I needed answers. So once I became of age and my dad started to pass, that's when I started to ask about our family of origin and why certain standards or why just a lot of different things that I realized just weren't on the table as conversations. So as I got older, I just learned more that my parents, like my mom, she didn't know. And my dad, he did his best coming from where he came from. But for me, it just became like this deep, deep, deep work to where even though they didn't have the answers or we were raised to be this way, I saw how there was soft dysfunction. I would buy our dysfunction, I would buy my way into our family. But at the same time, there are things that where you see patterns and different habits that kind of form in your bloodline where it's like that does not or has not been working for me personally. And I don't even know if I answered your question. I don't even remember all the questions. Speaker 1 (25:12): Well, I think that's the beauty of asking the questions is that it's not so much that you answer each aspect of the question, it's that you go inside and you see what you know and you're making this knowledge. And I think it's so interesting that we're talking about turning 50 and we're also talking about how your parents met when they were very young. They started having children when they were very young. I think about what I know today as an almost 50-year-old woman compared to what I knew at almost 21 when I became a parent. And I, it's vastly different. And all of the life experiences that I had between 21 and 50 are part of why I have so many more lessons and wisdom and insight. And I think you talked about growing up in a stable, loving Christian home and the way that that provided you this awesome springboard, and this is what I feel like I want listeners to pay attention to because maybe you two grew up in a really ideal family, a family that what Angie said, you would buy their dysfunction because it's so minimal. (26:38): You would take it over maybe some other experiences. But even inside of our very best, our parents doing their very best and being very loving, they can only pass on the knowledge and information that they have at that time. And we're not always limited by just what our parents taught us. I mean, I think of myself that way. I was a dramatically different parent than the parents that I had, and I had done a lot of thinking about the kind of parent I wanted to be, and I made some really different decisions, but in the cracks, like the cracks that I didn't know to explore, I couldn't obviously make those improvements until I started noticing there were cracks. And I think it's interesting that you talked about too, your father passing and how that started to inspire this introspection. I feel like one of my life's biggest turning points is when my sister died and I was 35, and I think there's this thing that happens sometimes when your loved one passes away and the family unit changes and we start thinking, what is this family and how did we come to be? (28:01): And what is it about the way that we are that has shaped me? Do I like all of those things? I know from talking with you when you were working on the concept of this book, one of your ideas was, man, I really wish I could talk to people when they're younger and encourage them to ask these hard questions of themselves, of the person they're attracted to so that they had that wisdom earlier on. If you could go back and give your 25-year-old self some advice based on what you know now, what would you emphasize? (28:51): Hey, it's Victoria here, and we'll get right back to our episode in just a moment. But first I have a question for you. Are you 45 or older? Do you know someone who is? If you answered yes to either of these questions, I have the perfect gift for you or your loved ones. It's thoughtful, funny, and original because nothing says you care. And I got your back like the Naked Librarians guide to your first colonoscopy and activity book for grownups. The American Cancer Society's Guidelines move the colonoscopy age from 50 to 45 years old. So if you haven't scheduled yours, now is the time. This activity book is the companion experience to colonoscopy with 10 fun filled activities and loads of hilarious trivia to keep you entertained while you count down from limited diet to final purge. There's even a colon maze you can do while you're waiting for the nurse to call you back for your procedure. Ordering your copy is you can get yours on Amazon, just search the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy. Did I mention we're number one in the colorectal category? In the meantime, make your list of friends and family. You want to delight in this rare and exciting gift. And as we say over the Naked Librarian bottoms up, Speaker 2 (29:59): I would emphasize my worthiness, my value, and just being aware if we can really stand in front of a mirror, you and I both know we have pictures from when we're our early twenties and just like ripe little plums, and it's almost like we had no idea. And it's almost like if you can just look in the mirror and really see yourself as a valuable, worthy human being here for a purpose, and not everyone deserves a chance at you. In the book I say, some people don't deserve our name, let alone number, and then we go on to marry them or just whatever. And so I would definitely, my 25-year-old self, I would just look in the mirror, see yourself and know that you are worthy and your value. Everybody does not deserve a chance period. And a lot of people just see potential and don't see the value in themselves and waste a lot of time with people that just don't deserve to know you at all. Speaker 1 (31:20): Why do you think it's hard when we're younger to know our value? And honestly, I think it's hard no matter how old someone is, they, if they're in a relationship right now where they don't feel valued or they can't seem to find the love of their life and they end up in relationships where they feel like a doormat, what's going on? Why is so hard for us? Speaker 2 (31:51): I think it's hard. You send me a reel about the father talking to his daughter, and that is a little bit of what I go into in my book where my dad was present and even he told me I was beautiful and taught me a lot. I really had more than anything, a Mr. Mom, my brother next to me, and I did. But at the same time, there was no Angie, you are special. No one, just anyone. They don't deserve your space. They don't deserve your time. You deserve a man like this. When you get a man the way that I treat your mom, there was no real instructions. Everyone doesn't need that, but a lot of times, most of us do if you know it or not. And so what I didn't get there, I find that a lot of times we just give people a lot of chances that you just don't see your value if you don't see your value on worth no matter what in whatever age. (33:07): Because it took me a long time. I just started doing the introspective work at, I don't even remember how, I mean, my dad died in 2018, so do the math. I'll be 50. However, I just think a lot of us just don't get the instructions of how valuable we are. And so then if you and Victoria this as well, a lot of people don't do introspective work. A lot of people, these questions or the questions that they will create for their own situations will be the first time that they've even thought about or ask these questions of themselves or other people in their lives or consider to ask when they bring in the next person in their lives. So if you don't know who you are, what you want and what you need, you will find yourself in situations that just don't serve you, that really don't. Like I said, we were not born to be mistreated, but if you don't know your worth and your worthiness, then a lot of stuff has to happen until you start to ask the hard questions of yourself first. Speaker 1 (34:24): And I wanted to highlight that early on when you were thinking of writing this book and coming up with questions, one idea was, Hey, I want to tell everybody what the red flags are. And I remember that one of the red flags is what you just said, which somebody that hasn't asked themselves the questions, somebody that hasn't done the introspection, which is interesting, right? Because by that definition, you were a red flag for anybody else who had done the work. So minimally, if you haven't asked the questions, you're only going to attract someone that also hasn't done the work, and the two of you are going to be lost together. And people find each other at different phases of life and they maybe start to ask questions together and then up growing together. That is the thing that happens. And I think it happens a lot when people especially meet when they're younger or they have certain life events that cause that to happen. And maybe someone listening, maybe you'll get lucky and that'll be you, but I know one of your missions is to help people with the wisdom that you've gained and just said, hang on here. (35:51): Inherent in this idea of not really knowing our worth is not being trained to listen to ourselves, that inside of us there is wisdom, our brain, our bodies. We're noticing things that don't seem right, that we don't really like, we're not feeling valued in the relationship, but we're not tuning into that. We're almost like shutting the door on that. And I think building the awareness that you have an internal operating system that is a wise guide and just, I know for me it's been a big practice just to notice, just to notice like, oh, I'm having a yucky feeling around this person. It doesn't have to be your partner. It could just be somebody else in your life that doesn't deserve your name or number. And I thought this was going to be an interesting friendship or relationship, but I'm not. No thanks. And I think this is true, especially of women. We're really trained to be polite. Speaker 2 (37:05): Thank you. Speaker 1 (37:06): If you have any faith background, you're also treating to be of service to others. And so this wise person I'm talking about kind of gets shelved or you have a secret life where it's like, okay, I've got somebody inside. They are talking to me. They are telling me something about this doesn't seem right, but I'm supposed to be of service and I'm supposed to be selfless. I'm supposed to work for the greater good. It doesn't matter how you get this message, whether it's you's because you're a woman or because your mom didn't have a lot of value to demonstrate, or like me, you grew up in Georgia in the South where I was sort of trained to be polite or you grew up in the church, which I also did where I was, they doubled down. It was like, be polite in a servant and have a servant's heart and don't have a lot of needs. Don't be needy. Speaker 2 (38:12): It's horrible. Speaker 1 (38:14): I mean, it's just why I have conversations like this because I think a lot of people, a lot of women could look at their life and say, well, none of that applies to me. And yet I still struggle with people pleasing. Speaker 2 (38:34): Exactly. Speaker 1 (38:36): Meeting a partner that ends up not being right for me. And so I think that the questions are hard. The questions that you want people to ask are hard. They're multifaceted. And have you ever thought with how many questions in your book, how long you think it would take somebody if they did them all? Speaker 2 (39:01): I didn't really. I did not. Because just as well as you asked the question, just they'll go off on tangents or it's like you'll just get a chance to see into people if they answer the question just how you ask the question, great. But a lot of times that's not the case. But if you listen, you'll learn about a person or you'll hear their denial or awkwardness, uncomfortableness or just starting to divulge information. So it gives you a chance to get to know people, and it's really a chance for you to observe. And especially in the dating aspect or even your spouse or yourself, whatever it is, it's almost like this patient vetting chance just to see or understand a person. So just as well as the questions are multilayered and multifaceted, it's just a way to see the layers of people or see the way that someone will hide the layers that they're not ready to share or that they don't want to share. (40:21): So I didn't think of how long it would take. I just knew that it would give people a chance to see whomever it is, whatever question it is, the way that you answer, don't answer, or the way that you expound, just whatever it is, it gives you a chance to see the person. And that's what a lot of us haven't taken the time to do, is to see ourselves and to really look into ourselves, let alone another person that we are inviting or allowing into our lives. So if you don't know yourself, that's not good. But then we're always in a relationship to where, what are you expecting or what are you looking for from this other person? And you really don't even know yourself. So it's just a learning process and a vetting. I like the vetting word. Speaker 1 (41:22): I like the vetting too, and the way in which we can vet ourselves, we can land on a question that's uncomfortable for us and begin wonder what's that really about? And so I think what's cool is that the questions work both ways. You can ask them of yourself. You can be on a solo journey or you can be in a new relationship and want to get to know a partner. Or I think it would be really cool to be in a group where people are thinking, I want to know myself better and I want to know the people around me. (42:03): I think you and I are similar in the regard that we're verbal processors and we're willing to maybe talk and maybe not sound eloquent, but sort of figure it out while we're talking. Some people really struggle with that. And so I would just encourage people that if you use these questions to interact with others, do it with grace. Not everybody is comfortable just pouring their heart and their lives out, and that doesn't mean they have some kind of secret life or they don't want to get to know you. And I think it can be a beautiful way to build closeness in a relationship when you allow for different learning styles and different personalities. Maybe somebody wants to write their thoughts down and have read them. Maybe it's something you do around the dinner table with your kids. But I think allowing for those differences is important. So I think that approaching it all with a sense of grace and curiosity and versus like, gotcha. Speaker 2 (43:22): Exactly. Speaker 1 (43:25): I knew I couldn't trust you, and now you're acting shady around Speaker 2 (43:29): Your Speaker 1 (43:29): Answers. So now I really know. So I just have a couple more questions for you. What do you hope at turning 50? What do you hope your daughter has learned from you? Speaker 2 (43:47): Wow, resilience that you can be in a situation or you can, even if it's financial uncertainty, just not being sure about different things. Like with me, once I had her, just different things changed. If it's the career or just different paths that I wanted to take had to take and ended up going down. But yet still the questions and the enjoyment life, even if I was in a bind, it could have been financially or whatever, always made sure we went to close trips where we can drive in a car or there's still an enjoyment in life. There's still great people to be around. There are a lot of things that can happen for free. It is free to be kind and nice and just speak to people, speak to all types of people, and you don't have to be just, I guess you and I, what people don't know when a lot of things race can come up. (45:15): We've been friends for a very long time. We've had hard conversations and we've been through a lot, but we love each other very much. And for her to see that, I mean, she's been with you since she was a child, and so really it's about loving people, still finding joy in the midst of it all. And so for her to see me in all different stages, but then yet to kind of come to this empowerment stage, this embracing being 50 and not having regrets to where it causes bitterness or things that just really aren't worth holding onto because life is great even when it's not. We have opportunities just to make decisions that we can help somebody else. We can be in a hard place and we can just help somebody else. So I think she's seen that all of her life, and she sees me where I am to where I'm just becoming more and more empowered just writing a book. (46:26): I mean, that's a big deal. And just like you and she and other people have heard me talk about it, but to actually have accomplished that and accomplished different things, it's just I think she is proud. She says she's proud or she can just watch me and I feel I can be enough of an example for her to where, and I've given her enough information. You and I, we didn't know about boundaries and codependency and all of the things that you need to know early on. So outside of her watching me and learning things, I made sure that she knew all of those trauma bonds and everything that we learned a little bit later on in life, usually for most of us, unless you miss it. So I tried to instill a lot of things in her, but be ridiculous or disrespect her youth and childhood. But I also try to be an example and just allow her to know that mommy didn't know at all, and just to see me through the journey to where I have hopefully in my eyes progressed and become pretty cool at almost 50. So yeah, I don't know if I answered your question. I think I did. Yeah, Speaker 1 (47:58): You did. Great. If people want to follow along with your journey, if they want to find you, where do they go? How do we stay in touch with you? Speaker 2 (48:10): So at Angie Parker Yoakum without the dash on Instagram, and that's a fairly new page. I'm starting that for my life coaching and my journey to help people just empower themselves and just to be a better person. Also, Angie Parker Yoakum on Facebook, that's where you can find me. And then my original page, which is more about food am a licensed cosmetologist as well as a life coach, but I am a licensed cosmetologist. So my first and original page is at Foodie Mom, which stands for Food, beauty, and I'm a mom all one word, and that's my original page. So yeah, just follow, come along with me. I'm just really now getting back on social media. I never wanted to be on there without a purpose, but I definitely want you guys to come along my journey and just so we all can have fun and ask questions and get to know each other, and yeah, Speaker 1 (49:19): All of it, Speaker 2 (49:21): All that. Speaker 1 (49:24): I hope you've enjoyed today's production of The Naked News. Everything created here was for entertainment and educational purposes and shouldn't take the place of talking to a doctor or a mental health professional. If you don't have a therapist. I'm a huge fan of therapy and getting to know yourself. And when Angie's book comes out, you can take a look at these questions and journal and get to know yourself a little bit better. Also, if you want to stay in touch with the Naked Librarian, make sure you've gone to my website and added yourself to our newsletter list where I publish. Recess is also the place where you're going to find out every time there's a new episode of Naked Librarian. Make sure to like us on all your favorite platforms and come follow me over on Instagram. It's my mission to bring more health and happiness topics to grown ass women. Thank you for listening in. I made it for you.    

If you're looking for more connection, calm, energy, and sense of well-being — this episode is for you.  Thank you to our podcast guest, Kai Siedenberg, a nature connection guide and ecotherapist about exploring a deeper relationship with the natural world. Learn more Kai, order her books and read her work over on her website.  Thank you to Louis Island for the "My Home" tracks featured in the podcast. They provide a beautiful sense of peace and possibility.  And a big thanks to Mission Flow, a marketing and automation platform for purpose-driven businesses and organizations, for sponsoring this episode.  Kai has also generously provided a guided meditation to help you get out and explore a deeper connection to nature, starting right where you are. You can find it here.    ***** Below is the transcript from the show:  Speaker 1:        That thing you've been looking for. Love, connection, companionship, calm, energy, purpose. There's a good chance it's outside. Speaker 1:        Did you play outside as a child? What was your favorite thing to do? When I was young, I loved making mud pie and playing free tag. As I got older, I played spotlight a game like hide and seek, but at night with a flashlight. Just after the lightning bugs settled down, we'd be outside searching for each other beneath the glow of summer stars. Growing up in Georgia also meant that I swam nine months out of the year and we visited the ocean regularly. I performed underwater mermaid flips in the salty Atlantic and searched for sand dollars in the early morning hours. Springtime meant my birthday, and by April, the tulips bloomed and the bumblebees buzzed. I even came to associate my birthday with a fragrance of flowers, warm sunshine and Easter egg hunts in the backyard. My mom did not believe in board children, and upon the very first complaint, we were sent outside to make our fun spending hours riding the rope swing up over the treetops and picking wild honeysuckle as snacks. Speaker 1:        When I close my eyes today, I can still smell the autumn leaves we raked and dove into. I can feel the lift as I got airborne on my bike ramp and the memory of hanging and space and time for a moment, feeling like I belonged there in the air. Hi, I'm Victoria Payne. I'm a writer, storyteller, health nerd, and also your host of The Naked Librarian. If you're new, welcome. I am so glad you're here in today's episode called I'll Meet You There. Why? Developing a relationship with nature means you're never alone. You're going to meet a remarkably wise woman who's going to help us rekindle our long lost or perhaps new relationship with the natural world because have you noticed that the smarter and older we get, the more we want to go back and relearn things, maybe even the things we're already doing, but we want to do them with more intention. Speaker 1:        I started the Nico Librarian because I'm passionate about helping what I call grown ass women, navigate life with more self-compassion, energy, happiness, and wonder. And here's a little spoiler for you what you've been looking for. Love, connection, companionship, calm, energy, purpose. There's a good chance it's outside. Now, I love talking to wellness experts about what they do and why they do it, and I know you're going to love today's guest, but first, let me tell you a story about why I think this topic is so important. Many years ago I was teaching research writing at the University of Portland, and no one gets excited about a research paper, so I like to surprise the students by allowing them to choose their own topic. I put a few boundaries around it, mostly because I had already seen what did and didn't work, but other than that, it was wide open. Speaker 1:        One year I had a student from Hawaii who will call Tommy. Tommy proposed to research seasonal affective disorder, which the Mayo Clinic calls a type of depression related to the seasons because he noticed how little time he was spinning outside. And as the winter months in Oregon droned on, he was feeling less optimistic, less motivated, and more homesick. Tommy began to reflect on some of the differences in his habits at home and in Portland and ran some numbers at home. He spent upwards of 10 hours a day outdoors, walking, playing, swimming, surfing, sitting, eating, just simply being. When he arrived in Portland in the fall, the weather was still nice the time of year when students play Frisbee on the quad, and so he got about two hours a day outdoors Beyond the time he walked to and from classes in the dorms, Tommy figured maybe he was getting about three hours a day outside. Speaker 1:        Sure, it was a big change, but not everywhere can be Hawaii. He thought Tommy smiled a lot and had a great attitude, something everybody loved about him, including me. But as the weather turned, he discovered that he really had to push himself to be outside. It got cold, it got rainy, and by November he found that his time outdoors was limited to only walking between buildings. In such a short time, he'd gone from 10 hours a day of sunshine, fresh air and ocean to less than an hour a day and a damp climate. Now you might be thinking, well, that's Oregon, or maybe Hawaiian students shouldn't try college in rainy places, or maybe you're thinking Tommy should just be grateful. Maybe you grew up surrounded by concrete and very few playmates at least Tommy had that. But if you allow yourself to consider that Tommy's story might be a metaphor for adulthood and in a way represents the shift between the childhood you had or maybe wished you had one of play and outside and friends to more of an indoor life with artificial lighting and no recess. Speaker 1:        If you can make that leap, you might see that you too have lost something. And so far we're just talking about the loss of things like sunlight and vitamin D and fresh air and movement and the benefits of play. But what about all the other stuff that's outside? What about the birds, the flowers, the trees, squirrels, hills, maybe even mountain landscapes depending on where you live. When we're living the life of what for many is equivalent to an indoor one who maybe gets a little time outside on the catio or some back scratching on the porch post. When our experiences are limited, our minds become limited and we start thinking that that sunny window and mom's favorite chair are all that we've ever had. We forget, we are a living thing too, and we're connected to all that. You may be thinking, well outside cats kill birds, Victoria. Speaker 1:        And I would say don't take the analogy too far, just hang onto the idea that you were meant for more. You were meant to climb trees and roll in the grass and pounce around, maybe catwalk over to your BFF's yard a few houses down because all the stuff that's outside from the sunshine that warms your naps spot to the bees that pollinate the flowers you sniff to the hummingbirds you watch, but never hurt because you're a good cat. All of it is a vast underground spring ready to replenish you each time you go outside. But don't just take my word for it. It's time for you to meet today's expert Kai Seidenberg. Kai is a nature connection guide, eco therapist and poet who is passionate about helping people connect with the healing power of nature for the benefit of all beings and is a pioneer in integrating nature, awareness and mindfulness as a path to mind body wellness, her approach is rooted in deep listening to nature and informed by 30 plus years of experience developing innovative educational programs and extensive practice in mindfulness, holistic healing and creative expression. Speaker 1:        Kai's life and work are woven around for golden threads, love for people, love for the earth, desire for deep connection, and a strong call to contribute. Kai is also the author of three books of nature, poems and practices, poems of the earth and spirit space between the stones and Love, poems from the Earth, and all three volumes were selected as finalists for the next generation indie book awards. I want to read you something from Kai. This is an excerpt from her introduction to love poems from the earth and a powerful illustration of what is possible when we do more than spend time outdoors. But when we raise our awareness about the living things that surround us and how we're all connected, most of us are taught to look for love in certain places and groups of like-minded people at bars and parties and carefully crafted profiles on glowing screens. Speaker 1:        We are not taught to look for it in the strong branches of trees, the delicate petals of flowers or water gliding over stones. We are also trained to search for love primarily in the form of one idealized romantic partner, which limits our options and leaves many people lonely and longing for connection. What if we could snap out of the hypnotic trance of fairytale romance and inhabit a wider wilder and more inclusive love story? One that enables us to escape from the cramped confines of the humans only club and rewild our friendships and love lives. Not to replace our human relationships, but to expand our circle of kinship. What if we knew that every being could be our friend and teacher and that we can cultivate loving connections with trees, lakes, and special places in nature and experience the unconditional love we yearn for? We could feel more love and more loved. Speaker 1:        We would feel less alone and more connected. We would have a solid base of support we could count on and good times and bad. Perhaps more than we can rely on some of our closest human relations. Our love lives would become broader, deeper, richer, and yes wilder. I hope you can hear the wisdom and the invitation in Kai's words. In this episode, you're invited to come a little closer and learn from Kai herself. You'll learn more about what a connection to nature looks like, where Kai's passion for this work came from, and be inspired by some of Kai's lovely poetry and simple ways to experience connection with the natural world. And as a special bonus, we also recorded a guided meditation for you because we really want you to take this whole nature connection thing on a test drive. Or better yet, a wilderness wandering, which is different from wandering in the wilderness. Maybe we should just stick to nature walk. Okay, call it what you want. In fact, maybe that can be part of the fun. Are you ready to be inspired? Step right up and follow me. Speaker 1:        Hey, it's Victoria here and I've got a message for all the business owners out there. Does your business or organization have an important mission? Then you need to know about mission flow? Mission flow is an all in one sales and marketing platform for purpose-driven businesses. The mission flow platform is specifically designed to empower thought leaders, social entrepreneurs, local and family owned businesses and nonprofits to do more good with comprehensive marketing tools from web building to scheduling to email and SMS automation. And the best part, mission flow. Clients get more than tools, they get access to an award-winning marketing strategist, professional copywriter, and amazing customer support team. If you're looking for a better way to market your mission and grow your business, visit get mission flow.com. Hi, I am so excited for our conversation today. You and I have been talking about this and really wanting to create a conversation that a lot of people can learn from. So thank you so much for being on the show. Speaker 2:        You are so welcome. I am honored and delighted to be in this conversation with you, and I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you. Speaker 1:        Yes, I am just excited and ready to go. So you work as a nature connection guide and an eco therapist, and before I met you, I'd had it on my bucket list to meet an eco therapist, and then I realized, do I really know what these words mean? So for anybody else listening that might not know, can you share more about your work and what it is that you do in this space? Speaker 2:        Absolutely. So my work is all about inviting people into deep and healing relationships with the natural world, which means both just finding simple ways to connect with nature wherever we are in daily life, to remember that we're not alone, nature is present wherever we are able to support us as well as helping people learn how to open to more deep and nourishing connections with natural places, trees, creeks more than human beings to actually make friends with them and have them become part of our support network that we can count on in really powerful ways. And for many people, this is a very healing experience and a big aha that nature can really be there for us as a close friend, as extended family that can really help and support us through whatever we're going through. And so it's very powerful work. It happens in many different ways, ecotherapy, a lot of people practice more individually. I do a lot of group work as well as some individual work, but it all has a common theme of helping people connect with nature and healing ways. Speaker 1:        Has this been what you've done your whole life? Did you know at 18 when I'm done with school, I'm going to be a nature connection guide? How did this happen? Speaker 2:        It wasn't what I knew I was going to do my whole life. It is what I've been preparing to do my whole life without knowing it. So it kind of brings together everything I've done, which includes a lifelong love of the natural world and lots of positive experiences in nature. But this work started happening about 13 years ago when I was in a big transition. I'd been doing work for 25 years with nonprofits on sustainable ag and food systems, and that was really good rewarding work, but I knew it was time to do something else. I didn't know what it was, but I just knew it was time to take a step back and look at how I can serve at this time. And so I basically took a sabbatical, saved up some money and spent a lot of time in nature being quiet, what I felt called to do. Speaker 2:        I felt like if I'm quiet and listening to nature, I'm going to find my path. And so it was this really rich, rewarding, peaceful process of going into nature and listening and opening myself to what wanted to come through and remarkable things started happening, including lots of poems coming through, which was a total surprise to me. I had no idea that was going to happen, but it was like I made myself available and they started coming through also a whole body of work of nature practices and classes and programs, like basically the natural world is saying, okay, now it's your job to help invite people into deep and healing relationships with nature and here is how you can do it. So I had no idea that was going to happen, but it also made complete sense given everything I'd done in my life, and it just brought everything together in a beautiful way that also was healing for me as well as for the people I work with, which is part of what I love about it doing nature-based work. Speaker 1:        What I'm hearing in that story is how much trust you had in both yourself, but also that nature could be this guide and resource for you. And I know that's such a big part of your work, this relationship to nature, I think that's such a beautiful illustration of even one of the questions I have. How do you have a relationship with nature so often where our ideas of relationships, I mean we might think of our having relationships with our pets, but expanding into this, were you just wired this way to understand that nature could do this for you or how did that happen? I feel like I missed this part of growing up where someone taught me this. Speaker 2:        Yeah, well, it was something that I had at some level all my life going into nature, loving, being in nature, feeling connected with nature. But when I talked about that big transition earlier, it went to a whole different level, just much, much deeper than I'd ever gone before. And I got this sense of how much more was possible, partly because even though I'd been going nature all my life, I'd been following what I think of as the unwritten rules that our culture gives us, which is pretty much keep moving, stay busy, focus on getting to a destination, go out with other people all the time. So that can be great, you can have amazing experiences, but if you stay busy the whole time, if you're always talking to other people or focused on them, you're less aware of the natural world and less able to drop into a deeper relationship with nature. Speaker 2:        So just by in that transition, by following my intuition and like you said, that trust in nature, I just kind of followed what was calling me and being quiet and slowing down and listening was a really fundamental part of that instead of just moving through with an agenda that I feel like is really what made that much deeper connection possible. And I may be somewhat wired for it or more open to it than others, but I've also taught this to many people over the last 12 years and so far I've always found that teaching people some pretty simple things makes a big difference. And it's some of the things I've already mentioned, slowing down, being quiet, being more present, actually focusing our awareness on the natural world and engaging more directly through our senses, through listening. So just some pretty simple things can make a really big difference and help us open to a much deeper relationship with the natural world. Speaker 2:        I feel like we're all wired for that. We've just been taught not to do it. We are in a culture that teaches ourselves to see ourselves, teaches us to see ourselves as separate from nature, which in the history of humans is a very bizarre little blip. Like almost all of our history on earth, people have lived closely with the natural world, we've known we're part of nature. We've seen other beings as friends and relations. I would love to share a quote here from an indigenous teacher, Jamie Sams, that just sums up this worldview because this is how humans have seen it for most of our history on earth. In Native American culture, we see everything as being alive. Each living thing has a specific role as a teacher and family member. Everything on earth, whether stone, tree, creature, cloud, sun, moon or human being is one of our relatives. It's just such a different way of thinking of the world than what most of us are taught today. Speaker 1:        I really appreciate thinking of the natural world and all that's in it as my family, as my relatives, and maybe even for some of us, a more benign version of that if you don't have, if family or relatives doesn't necessarily bring you warm, happy thoughts. The idea that we are surrounded in the absolute best way with this. So earlier you talked about how we can get really busy and just keep moving forward. Do you have a way that helps peoples kind of slow down and become more rooted that you teach others? Hey, it's Victoria here and we'll get right back to our episode in just a moment. But first I have a question for you. Are you 45 or older? Do you know someone who is? If you answered yes to either of these questions, I have the perfect gift for you or your loved ones. Speaker 1:        It's thoughtful, funny, and original because nothing says you care and I got your back like the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy and activity book for grownups. The American Cancer Society's guidelines move the colonoscopy age from 50 to 45 years old. So if you haven't scheduled yours, now is the time. This activity book is the companion experience to colonoscopy with 10 fun-filled activities and loads of hilarious trivia to keep you entertained while you count down from limited diet to final purge. There's even a colon maze you can do while you're waiting for the nurse to call you back for your procedure. Ordering your copy is easy. You can get yours on Amazon. Just search the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy. Did I mention we're number one in the colorectal category? In the meantime, make your list of friends and family. You want to delight in this rare and exciting gift and as we say over at the Naked Librarian, bottoms Up. Speaker 2:        Yes, I have a bunch of ways of doing that. So some are very simple. Just stopping for a few moments or a minute or more is one of the most powerful things. Just being still, if you hold still for a few minutes somewhere, you will get to know it in a very different way than if you're moving the whole time. Being quiet is also really powerful. You're going to be much more aware of what's going on with you. So when I teach practices in groups, a lot of them combine some of the same simple ingredients, being quiet, slowing down, tuning into our senses, like focusing on hearing or focusing on touch. When we get to know a tree or a stone using touch, we have a much more direct intimate sense of connection than if we just look at it with our eyes. I also encourage people to notice where they feel drawn to go and then find one being or place that they connect with for a while where they just sit and listen or maybe they write. So any of those things can really help us open to a deeper connection. It also really helps honestly to go out alone without other humans because humans are very engaging creatures. They absorb a lot of our attention, and so we're out by ourselves. We have a lot more awareness and attention, and I realize not everyone feels safe doing that. So you can also go out with someone else and maybe keep a little distance apart or be quiet so you can have your own experience, but that helps a lot too. Speaker 1:        I think you mentioned earlier that selecting a special place or a being in nature, I'm thinking about your poem about is it the Redwood? Could you share that with us? I think it's a beautiful illustration of what you're talking about. Speaker 2:        Thank you. I would love to. Some of my best friends are trees. Trees make excellent friends, and I'll just say before I share this, this is a tree that I felt just called to me like, I'm here. I'm available to be your friend, and I visit them often and call on them when I'm not with them. So they're a really important part of my life. Sometimes if I'm having a hard time, I just imagine myself with this tree leaning into them and I feel their support. So this is called Beloved Redwood, beloved Redwood friend and teacher. Thank you for giving so much to so many fresh air, shade and shelter, beauty and inspiration. More than words can say, beloved redwood friend and teacher, thank you for your deep and eloquent teachings on what it is to be rooted, to be balanced between earth and sky, to give generously beloved redwood friend and teacher, thank you for letting me lean into your trunk and feel your support for allowing me to call on you for strength and guidance even when you're far away. Beloved redwood friend and teacher, thank you for showing me how to listen deeply for holding and healing me in more ways than human words can express beloved redwood, beloved redwood. Beloved redwood. Speaker 1:        So beautiful. I feel like I can see this redwood in my mind's eye. I love the ending how it just becomes almost like a chant that you're saying. I think something that I've really appreciated in getting to know you and you work is the way that you've been able to embody these experiences of nature into writing. And we were talking earlier about practices, about noticing and quiet being in nature, and then there's this other thing that you're also doing. Do you ever teach people how to write love poems to the natural world? I know your book Love Poems from the Earth is your collection of that, but I feel like as a writer really drawn to this and that there might be something in here for anyone who wants to move into a deeper relationship with nature. Speaker 2:        Yes, writing can be such a powerful path to a deeper relationship with whatever we write about, including nature, right? So there's a magic when we write that we notice and experience and integrate things more deeply, and I think it's especially powerful to do that with nature because nature has so much healing and medicine in the indigenous sense of the word to give us. So yes, I do teach people to do what I describe as nature-based writing, which is writing from a place of deep and respectful connection with nature. I do that both outdoors in natural settings and believe it or not, on zoom through guided meditation and experiences with nature treasures. So the way I teach is not really writing technique, but it's about how to open ourselves to the natural world and allow nature to speak to and through us. And sometimes we're even stepping into the voice of a redwood tree or the ocean or an owl and writing in their voice or writing in a dialogue with them and some really remarkable and magical things happen when we do that. Speaker 2:        It is a way of being more in relationship with nature and receiving more of the wisdom and guidance by stepping into a written dialogue. So that's something I love to do, and a really simple thing that I encourage people to do that anyone can do is write a letter to a being or place in nature that's special to you. Letter writing is really a simple form of writing, even for those of us who don't feel that comfortable with writing and just write a love letter or a thank you letter to one of your favorite nature spots or trees or animals and see what comes out. It usually changes the relationship and helps you realize how special they are to you. Speaker 1:        I think that's such a wonderful idea, and I think almost like a cheat sheet to a feeling, more of your connection to the natural world. I think so many of us, whether it's from our childhood or present day or every day, have places that we really treasure. I think there's something powerful in this idea of writing a letter. There's so many kinds of letters we can write. There's love letters, thank you cards. There is confessionals. So there's this real, to me, this is so interesting to think about and to try because I can put language to this experience and also from teaching writing for so many years, one of the things we know is that writing is, we're a lot of times more connected to our writing when there's a real audience, and in this case, I'm using real with the air quotes because maybe the ocean can't talk back to you, but this idea that you're thinking of someone, something specific that you're writing to, and that actually will change the writing versus a lot of times writing in schools are taught as assignments and the teacher isn't really enough of an audience for many people to get them to care about their writing. Speaker 1:        So this really interests me on so many levels. Speaker 2:        Can I ask, sorry, can I add one little, it's just for us as humans, language is a really powerful way of how we create and deepen a relationship. And in our culture, we're not taught to talk or write to beings in the natural world. But when we start doing that, it really helps us feel that we are actually in a relationship, we have a connection, we care. And so I also encourage people to practice just speaking out loud, like just saying hello or saying thank you. Just a couple of words can change a relationship because it really acknowledges we are connecting with ascension being that's hearing us and we're with them. Speaker 1:        I love that. I guess the times that I have done this, I worried a little bit about my sanity, but I was also very happy because I do talk to my plants and to the birds that visit me sometimes. And I also found myself, especially when we get kind of the rough weather, get worried about the plants and if they're going how they're going to do, I've often prayed for them, but I feel like that's even different than what we are talking about because this idea that the two of us have our own connection is a little different than asking God to protect something. So I just really love this. So we're coming up in not too long on Earth Day, and this episode will probably air around that time, maybe on Earth Day. We'll see. But I was really struck by one of your poems where you wrote about the earth from the viewpoint of what if the world, the earth was your partner. Could you read us that poem? Speaker 2:        Sure. So this is my imagining of a personal ad written by the earth. Beautiful planet seeks compatible humans for long-term committed relationship, me 4.5 billion years old, but look younger, strikingly beautiful and very well endowed, highly evolved, intelligent and accomplished, head of a large extended family, very generous and giving, but don't want to be taken advantage of. Seeking a committed but not exclusive relationship. You enjoy forests, mountains, oceans, and diverse plants and animals, very willing to listen and learn, including from other life forms, more interested in the common good than material wealth, ready for a long-term, committed partnership based on deep love and mutual respect. Interested. Let's connect. Speaker 1:        Oh my gosh, Kai, that is so good. Wow. How did this come to you? This is so, it's so perfect. I have been on dating apps before, which sadly was writing personal ads, but I know this idea of a personal ad and it's so brilliant. Tell me a little of the behind the scenes on this one. Speaker 2:        Honestly, I wish I could remember, but I don't specifically remember. I could dig through years old notes and find out where and when it happened. But right now, I don't know, this poem came through probably 10 years ago. Sometimes I remember, sometimes I don't. But often a lot of my favorite writing, it kind of just drops in a gift from the natural world. It's not like I deliberately crafted it and tried to figure it out. So that's actually part of why the title to my first book is Poems of Earth and Spirit is I just experience them as gifts from earth and spirit. I don't actually know how to deliberately sit down and write a poem, even if I really want to. I need to come to me. Speaker 1:        So with your poetry, I just think it's so awesome that poems just drop in for you. And I wonder if we had a little more space and intention and quiet if we, even the non-writers out there, people that don't even think of themselves as writing would experience more of this. I know that in times of quiet and I'm in nature, I experience awe sometimes the kind that you'll just start to cry just so, so beautiful. And in fact, on Easter morning, I woke up and I went downstairs to make coffee and I saw a bunny jumping in my backyard. There's bunnies around where I live, but it feels a little different when it's in my backyard and felt like a little treasure and a little gift. I happened to know that my husband, who's this big strong guy, but just has a really tender heart, especially with animals, would love to have wild bunnies around. Speaker 1:        I knew this. And so when I came upstairs and I brought him his coffee, I said, okay, I have something to tell you. Try not to cry. And I told him about seeing the bunny jumping in the backyard, and yeah, I knew it was going to happen. He kind of teared up and he was like, oh, where is it? I want to go and see. And I feel like there's this kind of preciousness that when we're still and when we're quiet, we get to experience. What I am really hearing in our conversation is just this idea though that's a little more evolved, and instead of me and the natural world being side by side, we're both kind of moving through life that we're connected to each other. And I know in some of your other writing you've talked about how maybe this has always been there or this has always been there, but it's our, and we talked about it earlier, it's our way that maybe our culture that's kept us from seeing that there's this real relationship that we can have with nature. And I'm wondering if you could say a little bit more about what relationship with nature really means to you. Speaker 2:        It means so many things. I'm going to answer it at different levels. It means I'm never alone. It means I'm always supported. I always have this diverse and beautiful extended family that is available to support and guide me and with me, and I feel so profoundly, not alone and never lonely. Even when I'm alone. I feel that I feel like there is always wisdom and guidance available to me in this extended family, just as there would be in a healthy human extended family. So that's some of what I feel and what I experience and that I also can intentionally ask, like if I'm about to do something difficult, I might call on the natural world or my special redwood friend or another ally just to be with me and support me. And it makes a difference to know I can do that. It's one way we can all access healing and guidance from nature anywhere. Speaker 2:        That's some of what it feels like, a little bit of what it looks like or how it occurs in daily life. On a small, simple level, just noticing the presence of nature around us. Even when we're in a city, there's plants and animals, there's the sun and stars and clouds and moon. Just noticing the presence of that, a bird singing, taking a few moments to just notice that and breathe it in. Noticing the food on our plate, giving thanks to the plants and animals that gave it to us. These are just simple ways that we can notice and appreciate the presence of nature wherever we are, and then what it looks like in a natural setting. I talked a little earlier about how there's unwritten rules that tell us, stay busy, keep moving, focus on something else. So part of how a relationship with nature might look in a natural setting is we're more present. Speaker 2:        We're paying attention to where we are. We might be slowing down or tuning in with our senses. We might be touching, we might be writing, we might be going back to a place regularly and spending time with it and being curious and tending that connection and getting to know that place just by being present and listening and being aware and really remarkable things can happen when we start listening and paying attention to nature. There's just so much available and whether or not we're aware of it, we're all already in a relationship with the natural world. If we breathe air, if we drink water, if we eat food, if we're in a body, if we have a dog or plants or a garden, we wouldn't be alive if we weren't in relationship with nature. So the relationship is already there, but starting to bring some more awareness to it, noticing it, breathing it in, and tending that connection. It can give us so much more. Speaker 1:        I find that as I get older, that I am thinking more about the more depth, the more meaning to life, the richness. I feel like there's this sense of, oh my gosh, I've been here this long. I hope I didn't miss something that I was supposed to get. What I love about our conversation today about developing a relationship with nature is that it's always been here, and whether I've had that awareness or not, and that it's endlessly available, I appreciate the reminder of the food on my plate, the stars in the sky. I don't know if other people are this way, but sometimes it gets all compartmentalized and there's What am I going to eat and I need to make sure there's enough nutrients in that food because of this reason or I, there's all of these choices that I'm making, and I think being reminded, being rooted back in that the natural world is all around us, whether we're inside or outside, and these are such beautiful reminders. Kai, you have so much wisdom for us. I think you so much, and I want my listeners to be able to connect with you and define more of your work. Can you share more about where we can do that? Speaker 2:        Sure. I have a website, our Nature connection.com. There are lots of articles and tips on there, more information about how to do what I've been talking about today. There are poems. There are introductions to my three books. So I also have three books of Nature, poems and Practices, the Poems of Earth and Spirit Series. So encourage people to visit my website and find out more, and they can sign up for a monthly newsletter that includes nature practices and poems. So would love to hear from people. And I also would love to share one more poem if we have time for that. We Speaker 1:        Do. Speaker 2:        Great. This is called A Thousand Butterflies. Last night I dreamed I had a thousand butterflies inside my heart, rising with a great joy and lightness. Effortlessly they floated into the vast blue sky and all about them was a sense of freedom and celebration. They were not weighed down by unnecessary burdens. They were not bound to anyone or anything they did not love. Last night I dreamed I had a thousand butterflies surrounding me with soft wings and bright colors. I felt my burdens lift, and I followed their bright wings to freedom. Speaker 1:        I hope you enjoyed this production of The Naked News. Everything created here is for educational and entertainment purposes and should not take the place of talking within medical or mental health professional. I am a big believer in therapy, and if you've been thinking about finding a great therapist, let me be the first to say go for it. And remember to visit [email protected] Naked Library to learn more from any of the awesome authors you heard from today.  

Bonus episode that goes with "I'll Meet You There."  Thank you to Kai Siedenburg who shares her wisdom and teaching in this short and calming meditation. Learn more about Kai at her website.

Thank you to Kim Rahir for the fantastic interview! Learn more about here here.  And a big thanks to Far West and their track 'Thunder' for the music in today's podcast. You can also visit our sponsor, Mission Flow, here. And order the Naked Librarian's Guide to Your First Colonoscopy here.    See Transcript below:  Speaker 1 (00:00): So a changing body, a lot of it is just how it is. If we are lucky, we will get old before we die. But some of these changes, especially when it comes to muscle loss and the consequences associated with it can be thwarted and there's good reason to launch your own fort down. Speaker 1 (00:30): How are you feeling these days about your body? If you're like me, you might be wondering why your butt cleavage looks a little tired or noticing a little more give in the skin around your armpits are feeling like, why are my jeans squeezing me in new places? And that's just my list. If you're like a lot of women, you've probably got your own. And look, I am a huge fan of body positivity. The last thing we need is women to feel more guilt and shame about our appearance. But I don't think it does us any favors if we're like, you're not allowed to have negative feelings about your body. I think we're much better off learning to notice them so we can be in conversation with them. The truth is aging can really call attention to the reality of time passing and an inevitable changing body. Speaker 1 (01:18): Am I the only one who wants to go back and splash my 16-year-old self with a cold glass of water and say snap out of it? You look amazing, Lord, we really can't spend a lifetime beating ourselves up. But one of the cool things about getting older fucking wisdom, and that means we can break that cycle and change our focus from the vanity of our appearance to the health and wellness benefits associated with movement, vitality and the focus of today's episode strength. So a changing body, a lot of it is just how it is. If we are lucky, we will get old before we die. But some of these changes, especially when it comes to muscle loss and the consequences associated with it can be thwarted and there's good reason to launch your own thwart down. Did you know that muscle mass peaks in our thirties and then it begins to decline? Speaker 1 (02:10): Muscle loss known as sarcopenia affects 45% of older Americans and is especially prevalent in women. So beyond our mixed feelings about our beautiful aging bodies, there are real consequences to letting gravity have its way with us. You're more prone to injury not just from falling, but from enjoying the things you love, like running, skiing, dancing, gardening, or playing with your now or future grandkids. The good news is there is something you can do about this and the benefits go beyond more muscle tone. Building muscle through strength training or resistance training has vast benefits, including some of the top complaints for women as they age, like the need to decrease stress, boost your body image, increase your confidence, fit into your favorite clothes and more. Hi, if you're new here. Welcome. I'm Victoria Payne, the creator and the host of the Naked Librarian. I'm a writer, storyteller, and wellness nerd who wants to help grown ass women live healthier and happier lives to experience more peace, joy, wonder and yes, strength. Speaker 1 (03:10): Today you're going to meet a truly remarkable woman. Kim Ray here is a health and wellness coach who helps women in midlife deal with a host of health symptoms by building strength and muscle. She is one of the most surprising European masters weightlifting champions you'll ever meet. Winning her first competition at age 60. She also has a personal story that will inspire your socks off. When Kim was 45 and raising three children and working as an international journalist, she received a life-changing diagnosis. Inside this episode, Kim will share her own health journey and how she came to accept her Ms diagnosis, but not what she calls living her life as a sick person. Her strength training regimen did more than help Kim manage her symptoms. In her story, she'll share how it helped her recover and even shock her doctors with her results. If you've already heard about resistance training and have been wanting to add it to your life, this episode is for you. If building muscle after your thirties is something you've never thought about, this episode is for you. And if you're like, where would I even start? Or I don't want to look like a bodybuilder Victoria girl, I've got you covered. Come with me in this inspiring conversation with Kim. She's got awesome insights and some great tools to help you get started no matter where you're at today. Speaker 2 (04:49): Kim, I am so glad you could take time to talk with me today. And I've been so excited all week to have this conversation with you after we met the first time I started following you on social media and just really enjoyed getting to see how you put your message and good work out into the world. And so first just thank you for taking the time to be here. Speaker 3 (05:17): Thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to chatting with you. Speaker 2 (05:23): And we have kind of a unique setup because we're in two very different time zones. It's actually night where you are. So we're coming Portland, Oregon all the way to Madrid, Spain, but I think you maybe also grew up in Germany. So do I have that part right? And how did you get to where you are? Speaker 3 (05:45): It's a long story, but it's just a story of traveling. I grew up in Germany, lived there until I was about 30, I think. I worked there for an international news agency and over work I met my husband and he is Belgian, he is French too now. So it's like crazy. Our family history is like a crazy travel book. And we got married and we moved to Dubai right away. So we started moving. Then we had three kids, we kept moving. We've lived in Dubai, in Vienna, in Paris, in Berlin. And then 10 years ago we moved to Madrid. We liked it so much that my husband managed to get a bit of a longer assignment. Usually we stay four years in one place, which is really short because it takes two years to feel really good and know everything. And then you're already halfway through and you're looking at the backend and you know that it's coming up. So in Madrid, we managed to stay longer and then he retired and we decided to stay here. We didn't want to go to Germany, didn't want to go to Belgium. This place is just so lovely. People are so nice and the weather is fantastic. There's so much light even in winter that gives you tons and tons of energy and that's just what you need in the second half of your life. Speaker 2 (07:13): Oh, I am so amazed. And it sounds like you have lived such an interesting life by traveling and living in places, not just visiting them but living there. And I bet you have some pretty great stories. I feel like your story of what I know of it so far, and I'm excited for my listeners to hear about is a really amazing story in itself, just taking the travel out of it. So I happen to know that your 60 years old and you recently won, let's see, a European Master's weightlifting championship. So how does that fit in with the other things that you've done in your career? I know you're, or are you still working as a journalist or you work full-time in your field? Speaker 3 (08:11): I gave up journalism six, seven years ago, so shortly after we came to Madrid because I had decided that I wanted to really enjoy that last expatriation before I used to work as a freelancer in journalism. And you always start from scratch, right? My husband had the assignment, the office, the infrastructure, and I had to start from zero. And I was stressing about that a lot. I decided that I was going to take it easy in Madrid and then because of my brush with illness and everything, and then I recovered and I thought this was like a new lease on life and I was going to do what my heart was actually aing to do, which is spreading the word about fitness and strength. And so I took the plunge, took the personal trainer exam, took the online trainer exam, worked all my way through it and started working full-time as a coach. Speaker 2 (09:10): And did that coincide with getting into competitive strength training or is that something that preceded that? Speaker 3 (09:21): It was before, actually it was maybe two, three years before that I had been going to the gym. And this is part also of my history of traveling. You move, you arrive at a new place, new country, and I didn't want to depend exclusively on my husband's circles. They were all journalists. I was a journalist and then you'd meet the same people all over. I always signed up for a gym when we moved somewhere because in a gym you meet all kinds of people, not only your colleagues or your peers, all kinds of people. And you can really get to know a country and the place where you live because of the variety. And I have been training more in the style of power lifting or even bodybuilding, even though those are great words. I was just using machines, the bar bell and lifting a bit for fun. Speaker 3 (10:16): And also because I wanted to be strong and I had a personal trainer who one day said, would you like to try weightlifting Olympic weightlifting? I said, okay, why not? I always had an open mind, I was curious. So he showed me the two movements that make Olympic weightlifting with it, which is the snatch and the clean and jerk. It's just two movements, one where you have to put the bar overhead in one move and another way you can put the bar on your shoulders and then put it overhead in the second move. And I was hooked right away because it's so challenging. You need to be strong, but it's not enough to be strong. You need technique, you need good technique. You have to overcome gravity in the smartest possible way. And you can imagine, I mean I am not the most explosive of athletes at my age, but still the bar is moving fast. Speaker 3 (11:10): And if you are off just a few millimeters at the start, when you start the lift, you pay for that dearly at the end of the lift because with the momentum and everything, the bar then gets the life of its own and you can't control it properly or it'll be too far ahead of you and you can't make it under the bar. It's super challenging, super exciting. I loved it right away and so much so that after doing that for a while, I changed gyms. I left the commercial gym, I went to a pure weightlifting gym and I had been training there for two weeks when somebody approached me and said, Kim, would you like to compete? I said, what whatcha talking about? I was 55 at the time and I said, at my age, are you serious? And they said, yeah, of course. Look at all these other people here. Speaker 3 (11:58): There were other masters even my age and they were competing. And then I said, okay, I'm going to do it. I'm pretty sure that in my thirties I would probably not have said yes to this. There's something liberating about being in the second half of your life and somehow having less things to prove. You're not worried about being ridiculous or whatever it is. And I thought, yeah, I'm just going to try that. And my very first meet, my first competition was one of the most exciting, most intense emotionally moments that I can remember. It was so intense that I thought I was going to cry. Not with sadness or fear or anything, just with the emotions was so strong because they call your name and you have to perform. It's just, no, I could lift this yesterday or maybe I can lift this tomorrow. No or never. Speaker 1 (12:57): Hey, it's Victoria here and we'll get right back to our episode in just a moment. But first I have a question for you. Are you 45 or older? Do you know someone who is? If you answer yes to either of these questions, I have the perfect gift for you or your loved ones. It's thoughtful, funny and original because nothing says you care. And I got your back like the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy and activity book for grownups. The American Cancer Society's guidelines move the colonoscopy age from 50 to 45 years old. So if you haven't scheduled yours, now is the time. This activity book is the companion experience to colonoscopy with 10 fun-filled activities and loads of hilarious trivia to keep you entertained while you count down from limited diet to final purge. There's even a colon maze you can do while you're waiting for the nurse to call you back for your procedure. Ordering your copy is easy. You can get yours on Amazon. Just search the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy. Did I mention we're number one in the colorectal category? In the meantime, make your list of friends and family. You want to delight in this rare and exciting gift and as we say over at the Naked Librarian, bottoms Up. Speaker 2 (14:06): Yeah, I find that's something that also really attracts me to things that have a competitive side to them. There's things you can run, you can weight lift. I was telling you the last time we met, you can get up live and tell stories. There's so many things that you can do or you can write, which is what I'm used to. I'm used to being a writer and I entered a live storytelling event that had a competitive element. And there is this feeling of, it doesn't matter how much you've practiced prepared or if you can do it when you're alone and no one's watching the performance side of it or the now or never side of it. Probably not for everyone, but it's something that I'm not quite sure how it's helping me, but I know that it is because I keep being drawn to things that have that in it. Speaker 2 (15:12): And I think if I were to maybe psychoanalyze it for myself for a minute, I think I enjoy the part of it where you find out how well can you perform this given all the work and dedication you've put into it. And in that way it doesn't have to be a win in order for it to feel like a win. And that's something that I think maybe I understand better as I am older and you were talking about the second half of life and just the greater willingness to say yes to things that maybe when you were younger you would've discounted. That really resonates with me too. We went to see a local circus last night, my husband and I did, and there was a part of the show where the ringmaster, it was all pretty much acrobatics and juggling. It was that kind of circus. Speaker 2 (16:16): And the ringmaster said, the next performer that's going to go up, she actually has a circus school here in town. And so if you ever wanted to learn any of this stuff you can. And I looked at my husband and I'm like, should we take classes? And he was like, you probably should. I can see the light in your eyes. You're probably going to want to try this. And that is a difference. I don't think at 30 years old, well, I was way too busy raising kids first of all, but I don't think I would've considered Ooh me. It's funny how now that we're older and we can't, like the competition is a different level, right? It's kind of competing with yourself and what you're willing to do or try and in your case also winning. So which exercise did you perform for the championship of the two that you were talking about? Speaker 3 (17:22): You always have to do the two and you get three attempts at each one. So you do a total of six lifts, it always starts with a snatch and then after three snatch attempts you do three cleaner jerk attempts. And I don't remember, I think after my first clean jerk, I knew that I had won, I think that I couldn't lose anymore. And that was so exciting. That was really, and it's something that I discovered about myself and everyone is different. I actually didn't think of myself as someone who wins things. I always thought of myself as someone who participates, who's a good sport, who gives her best, who competes more with herself than with anybody else. And this winning, I didn't think it was for me and it felt so good when it happened. And it's also something that we probably don't do often enough. Speaker 3 (18:35): It really gives you pause and you sort of congratulate yourself and you tell yourself, well done. You've worked really hard for this. And we don't do that in so many things. We just never stop. We never stop to say something nice to ourselves and to look back and see how far we've come and what we've achieved. And that was such a highlight that it really gave me that pause and thought, yes, I did this and I worked for this and I deserve this. And that for me was a big inner breakthrough because I didn't think I was someone who could or would win and I did. Speaker 2 (19:21): That's such a powerful experience and experience. I wonder, I wish that it was part of when we were younger that we knew to congratulate ourself or pause and notice how hard we are working. So often too with competition, the craving is for everyone else to see how great you are and I love how you're talking about it, which is the accomplishment taught you something about yourself and also gave you this opportunity to pause and do that. And I love that Winning was it sounds like the catalyst for that. And now I bet you can use this anytime you want. You don't have to go out and win something to have that pause and say, you're working really hard. I see you. You are very dedicated. Good job. Speaker 3 (20:18): It's something, especially the measuring backwards part that I have made integral part of my coaching actually because it's so easy to get discouraged and hopeless when you look at the road ahead and everybody tells you you need lofty goals and you do. You want, you want to challenge yourself and you want to aim high and you want to make big progress and achieve something truly remarkable. But when you spend every day just looking at that goal and seeing how far away it still is and how long it will still take to get there, I think you can easily become discouraged. And I do work with women who think, oh my God, this is, I can never get there. I can never do this. And I always tell them, look how far you've come. And that's when you measure backwards. It's truly empowering and we tend to forget this, we tend to forget this. Speaker 3 (21:21): There's this thing that I learned when something isn't right in our life, like say we have an ache or a pain somewhere or some kind of niggle when it's there, we complain every day saying, oh my God, it still don't feel right. And then when it goes away we don't even notice because it's sort of like back to normal and we are not aware that we are fine and that it's great. It's just sort of forgotten. And it's the same with the accomplishments. We forget how far we've come, we forget where we started out and what place we were in when we began. And I think this is really super helpful and super empowering to remember every now and then where we started and how far we've come. And that's the same for running a business or learning a language or learning how to paint or lifting, losing weight, whatever it is. It's a good thing to sometimes just look back and say, well done. Speaker 2 (22:27): Yeah. As you were talking I was thinking about just how powerful it is to have a mentor. When you were talking about how you encourage and coach some of your clients, I was thinking a little bit about how in so many fairytales there's a fairy godmother who comes along and encourages and empowers and kind of shows you A lot of times we'll just kind of equip you with the things that you need to go to the ball that you feel ashamed to be at or whatever it is. But they're also there to catch you when you're feeling bad. And it also occurs to me that we can be our own mentors in this way when we develop this dual, almost dual consciousness of I am the person, I am the main character who's out there growing and developing and I am also the mentor that's like good job. And I'm also the inner child that is like I am so discouraged. So I feel like there's so much wisdom in what you're talking about. And earlier you talked about your own brush with illness. I know that you've used your strength training to treat and heal yourself. So can you talk a little bit about that? Because I find especially in our earlier conversations that to be so interesting the way that you experienced illness and then also the direction that you went. I don't think a lot of people would've put those two things together. Speaker 1 (24:17): Hey, it's Victoria here and I've got a message for all the business owners out there. Does your business or organization have an important mission then you need to know about mission flow? Mission flow is an all-in-one sales and marketing platform for purpose-driven businesses. The mission flow platform is specifically designed to empower thought leaders, social entrepreneurs, local and family owned businesses and nonprofits to do more good with comprehensive marketing tools from web building to scheduling to email and SMS automation And the best part, mission flow clients get more than tools, they get access to an award-winning marketing strategist, professional copywriter, and amazing customer support team. If you're looking for a better way to market your mission and grow your business, visit get mission flow.com. Speaker 4 (25:15): Yeah, Speaker 3 (25:16): I'm happy to share it. It's a bit of a long story. I'm going to give you just the highlights or let's say the low points. I was 45 3 kids, they were very small. I had a full-time job. I was not freelancing for the first time in years. I felt really good. I thought I had made it to the pinnacle of having a good career and kids, something that's always supposed to be so hard for women and I think it is or it is for women, our generation. And I thought I had it all. And then from one day to the next, I was really struck down. Literally I started seeing double. I was sent to hospital battery of tests, my legs were losing their sensitivity, so I was totally paralyzed. After three weeks I really couldn't walk. I couldn't wiggle a toe. They knew it was some autoimmune thing, but they couldn't make up their minds what it was. Speaker 3 (26:11): And I was there like six weeks, totally immobilized, helpless, powerless and scared. And that was just the beginning. This was one of autoimmune thing. After two years of treatment, I was given a clean bill of health, had a new life, was really happy that I was back to normal. I was really very grateful too. And then it was another year and I felt my left hand going numb. I knew something was wrong. Neurological troubles, you always know something's wrong when you feel things that you shouldn't feel. I felt something that I shouldn't feel new tests. And they said this time it's different this time it's autoimmune attack on your nerve substance and if it happens again it's ms. You have to declare it. Ms. And I spent a year hoping that it wouldn't happen again. And it did. It was a much milder relapse than the first one. Speaker 3 (27:13): That's also why when the doctor told me I needed lifelong treatment, I fought him for an entire hour. He wasn't used to that. I think people don't usually answer doctors and ask so many questions. I know now why I did that. Because lifelong treatment in a way is losing your power, giving a big part of your power away because you depend on something that you cannot live without. And that scared me. That's why I talked to him and that I really asked him thousands of questions and told him, but this relapse was so much milder, maybe I'm getting better. And he got a little bit annoyed after an hour of me questioning him and then I had to give in and I got lifelong treatment, which turned out not to be lifelong because I had to accept injecting myself three times a week, but I did not have to accept the identity of a sick person. Speaker 3 (28:14): I asked him if I could exercise. He said something along the lines of, yeah, but be careful. So I knew that he didn't know what he was talking about really, and I don't blame him, but I decided I wanted to build myself back up because these autoimmune, these MS relapses, they leave you weakened and wobbly and you don't feel good. After the hospital experience where I was totally powerless, I just wanted physical strength. So I went back to the gym and in a new spirit, in a spirit of building myself back up of getting strong, got myself a book, one of the first books that said Women should lift Heavy. And I started lifting and I got better and better at my check-ins. The doctors were always surprised at how well I was doing. There was things like reflexes that had gone away with the relapses and the doctor said, those are never going to come back. Speaker 3 (29:20): And I came back. So I feel that I muscled my way out of this. I know that there's no cure for MS and I feel very lucky also because I was able to do this. I'm not saying that everybody can or should do this, but it helped me a lot. And I think part of this is also the mental health benefits that you get from strength training. It's great to be strong physically, your body functions, everything works better, but it gives you so much confidence and optimism I think, and that has a big effect on your overall health. We came to Spain up three years in Spain. I asked the doctor if I could suspend my treatment for three weeks because we were going on a camping trip and then he suggested that I stop it altogether and give it a shot. So I had a new lease on life and said, yeah, hell yes, I want to stop this. And that's six years ago and I've been without treatment and without relapse for six years and I'm going to touch wood Speaker 2 (30:34): Kim, that is such a powerful example of self knowing and self-advocacy. I love and thank you for including the part where you argued with your doctor because I think that especially for women, we are not always, we haven't been trained to fight or advocate or resist. We're not always listened to. And I think that we need to be reminded to be active in our health. Even though in your story you're, you come to an understanding. I actually think a really important part of your story was when you talked about acceptance and what you accepted and what you didn't accept. And I think it's probably in hearing both stories, not a surprise that you became a champion. We left after hearing your mental game and when you have young kids and it sounds like your children were young when this happened. You have a lot to fight for. Speaker 2 (31:47): You're fighting for your health, but you're fighting for a life that you want to be able to have with them. And I am so happy that your approach gave you this beautiful health and health journey. And I can see that when you are coaching other people and they're discouraged, it's not a bunch of fluff when you're like, I know the road ahead looks hard, but you can do it. You're speaking of this from personal experience and so I feel like one of the things that I wanted to ask you more about because of your really cool expertise and background, what do you think women in midlife maybe don't know about the value of strength training? Because I think most people have heard that it's good for you, but I feel like we've started to talk about benefits beyond being just physically strong. Speaker 3 (32:56): Absolutely. I think the biggest obstacle right now I think is cultural. I think we are not brought up with physical strength in the virtue catalog that we work on as girls. Even though it's totally normal to carry two toddlers and groceries when you come home from work and from the shopping, which requires tremendous amounts of strength. Actually women are natural born bodybuilders. We are building bodies inside of us, so we are strong, but we are not taught that strength is something to aspire to. And there's also this, and that's still lingering the seventies vibe of Arnold sweating in the gym, pumping iron, pumping out hundreds of reps and just growing particular muscle groups. And many women just don't resonate with that. They can't connect with that. This is something where we have to build a bridge and make it very clear that you don't have to go to a gym to get strong. Speaker 3 (34:10): You don't have to pump iron. You're not going to build tons of muscle on your body. It's not possible. I wish it was because that would make it even easier to be healthy and strong. And it's also, it's not about losing weight or looking great even though you will achieve that with strength training. But in midlife you're old enough and wise enough to dig a bit deeper. And when you look for mental health benefits for metabolic health, for joint health, for all these things that we desperately need in midlife strength training will give you all of those. And I think that this is still not part of the overall narrative. It's a bit like, yeah, I know I talk to women all the time say, yeah, I know I should do some strength training, but I don't know. I don't know where to start or I don't want to go to a gym. And the clearer we can make it that this is, to me it's like a one-stop shop for health and happiness. Yes, there are other problems, health problems that you can have that it will not solve, but I think the vast majority of struggles that we face at midlife, we can actually counter them with strength training and we don't have to go to a gym. And I think we need to keep working on changing the narrative, showing the results that you get, sharing those stories and encourage women and make that transition as easy as possible. Speaker 2 (35:51): I love thinking about the confidence that comes from feeling stronger and that mental health, the stress release and also the preventative health that you're talking about here, where for in midlife where our bodies are changing hormonally, things are happening and that's a journey in itself. Perimenopause can go on for 15 years. A lot of women, we don't even have a lot of education around that. I love that strength training can come in and help us on a bigger scale than just toning up or losing weight, which I know a lot of women want. It's something that I myself relate to and you said it, we're old enough now to dig deeper and to want more from everything we do in life, whether it's in the gym or journaling or spending time with witch friends. It's this wonderful time of life where we have collected the wisdom and we can apply it if we want. Speaker 2 (37:13): So I have a very selfish question for you, but I think maybe some of my listeners can also learn. I know a lot of women have been doing tons of cardio all of our lives because of also the culture, get out there, run sweat aerobics, get your stair climbing, all of these things that we've been doing. And there was a time where I didn't do as much of that. I liked workout classes. I've always really enjoyed group fitness classes, but in the last decade I've been doing more running and training for a half marathon now, and I do hit classes where it's a combination of getting really sweaty and lifting weights and I've started to lift heavier in there because I've been listening to people like you talk about the importance of that. And I'm also hearing that especially in midlife, maybe not so much cardio, maybe more of the strength training. I feel like you and your appointment with your doctor where I'm like, but no, I don't. I don't want to stop doing some of the things that I enjoy and I also want to be really good and kind to myself and age. So what's your advice in this department? And feel free to hurt my feelings around this. Speaker 3 (38:42): No, I will. There's nothing wrong with cardio, that's for sure. It's great for your health, it's fun. It will make you very happy with the endorphin rush at the end of a session, so that's perfectly fine and you don't have to stop it. I mean, the problem is some women get into some kind of vicious cycle where they do excessive cardio, which means they spend two hours on the elliptical and they look at the calories burned, which are totally unreliable. Don't ever look at the calories burned on your elliptical and think, oh, that was 1800 calories I burned and now I'm going to go and have a piece of cake. That turns into a vicious cycle where you get this feeling that you exercise more and more and you can eat less and less because you can't lose weight with that or you can't control your weight with that because you are not building muscle. If you have been working with a caloric deficit for a long time, you have lost a lot of muscle and it's just downhill from there. I like to see this topic as a hierarchy. Speaker 3 (39:53): Hierarchy in terms of what is the most important thing and if you can only do one thing, what's the most important thing that you can do? And that's definitely strength training. You definitely want to build strength. If you have time and energy for more, by all means have at it and do some cardio. It's fun and it's very healthy too. It burns some calories, but it will not help with your metabolism as strength training will because you will build lean mass, which takes a lot of energy to just maintain. So if you have only two or three sessions that you can do per week, you want to make those strength sessions if you can do more or if you can add walking for example, that's for some people, that's all the cardio they need actually. And I think there's also this, there's this misconception because hi, high intensity interval training is a great tool. Speaker 3 (40:58): It's absolutely fantastic and it will really burn a lot of fat. It will have an afterburn, it'll give you much better cardiovascular health and fitness with a very, very small time investment. But it's only effective if when you do it, it really sucks. It has to be really super intense. And that's something that many women have this misunderstanding because it is such an effective tool. They think if I want to get in shape, I have to do that. It's an effective tool. But HIT is an effective tool when you are in shape because you have to be able to do it up to that level where it really sucks. It's not the right tool for someone who wants to get in shape. You have to build the foundation first. If you start with hi, and if I had a penny for every woman I talked to and said I tried HIIT and I got injured, I'd be in The Bahamas. Maybe Speaker 2 (42:11): This is so helpful because I'm thinking about the classes that I do and I am really conscious of not ur myself because there's so many activities that I enjoy and sometimes I'll modify things that we're doing in there because of that reason. And I think about, yeah, this would be a disaster to walk into a class and think this is my year, I'm going to get in shape. It's also helping me think about, because I've been, I'm a bit of a DIYer, so it's like I'll hear that I need to lift heavier, but I don't want to give up my hi classes, so I'll pick the heavy weights. And in the last class that I did, I was actually dying and it was because I picked the heavy weights to do all of my sets with. So I feel like maybe I'm doing something right in that regard because it totally sucked. Speaker 2 (43:03): And I was wondering what am I doing? And I do think for those people out there that don't love exercise the way that I do, I get it. There's times, there's things that I ran. I've done several half marathons, I've run one marathon. I hated it because of the suck and because it took me so many hours of my life to train for it. And then the experience, I was in pain a lot of the time and I kind of had an existential crisis because I also did a destination marathon thinking this would make it better. And so I was running in the fall in this beautiful place in the northwest, it was called the tunnel of light marathon. We started in a train tunnel and ran down. We were running by forests and rivers and my environment was so beautiful, but I was so unhappy it started to go inward. Speaker 2 (44:06): Why did you pick this? This is not fun at all. So guess what? I'm never doing again a marathon because I am like, no, actually there's plenty of things I can do in my life. There has to be enough fun and enjoyment in that activity to feel good. And what I'm hearing from you is strength training is a low barrier entry for anyone because you can start with no weight, you can start with your body weight, you can build your strength, you can track, you can see how much stronger you're getting really over time. And it's really helpful too to hear you describe it as a hierarchy because again, selfishly I'm thinking about the things that I do and go, okay, yeah, I might have the ratios off a little bit in that regard because I think my therapist said, you're addicted to self-improvement, like I can really get after that. This has been such an awesome conversation and I feel like we could probably go on and on. I guess one last question for you before we close out is really, if somebody hasn't incorporated strength training into their lives at this point, what are some simple things they can do? Where can they just start? Speaker 3 (45:36): Definitely with calisthenics, body weight exercises. And you can take, just think of movements. We want to build muscle, but we do that with movements. Just think of movements. Think pushing, pulling, lifting something up from the floor, taking something down from a shelf, carrying things around, and then find a movement that sort of mimics that, which is quite natural movement, everyday activities. Find a movement that mimics that and then find the level that is right for you. I'll give you an example. A typical super, super effective all round Swiss knife pushing exercise is a pushup. And I can already hear women listening say, oh my God, I will never be able to do a pushup in my life. Pushups suck. I have no. So what you do is you start with a wall pushup. So you don't do knee pushups or what people call girl pushups, which I really love because women are strong and they can do all kinds of pushups, whatever they want, but it's because you want the whole body alignment for that pushup. Speaker 3 (46:46): So you do a wall pushup and you start with that, and when you can do three sets of 20, you just lower your hands, put them on the back of a sofa for example. You always keep that straight alignment of your body because that's how you work your core and everything, whole body tension in that pushing exercise, and that's how you progress slowly. And you can do this with all kinds of exercises. Mostly I want you really to think movements not muscles. So think of carrying, pushing, pulling these things and then find a movement that corresponds to that activity and find the level that's right for you because you want to build some strength in your joints and ligaments too before you start. If you haven't done anything in 20 years and you throw yourself on the floor to do five pushups, it's not even your muscles that are going to give out. Speaker 3 (47:43): I mean they're going to be overwhelmed, but you probably going to have painful elbows or shoulders or something because you want to ease your way into this. So that's what I recommend. Something really easy, like wall pushups you can do all day long even at work or some way nobody's looking. You just find yourself a wall and knock out a few repetitions and this will work. This is a little bit of the same vein as we talked about before. When you see this long road ahead and you think, oh my God, I'm never going to be able to do a pushup. If you can do a wall pushup now, do what you can do now and then if you keep doing that one day, you'll do a full pushup. Speaker 2 (48:25): That's a very, you make it so easy to get started. I appreciate that. And I think I'm going to incorporate some wall pushups because yeah, your arm's really tire from traditional pushups and that's when I usually go to my knees. So I like hearing that it's much better to do it these other ways to get that benefit. This is so great, and like I said, we could just probably keep going forever. If my listeners wanted to find you, where should they go? Speaker 3 (49:00): Well, they can find me on Facebook with my name Kimara here and there. I share all my latest endeavors, lots of tips and thoughts and stuff. And my website is kimra here.com. And on there you have a free assessment that you can take, and it's a health and strength assessment, so you get a really good picture of where you're at right now with your health and strength. And I think that's very important to have a good evaluation of your status quo so you know what exactly you need so you don't throw yourself into a hi class or and get hurt or start running when maybe you have high mileage knees. And it's like a holistic assessment where you can really get good insights on what's your situation and what might be the best way forward for you. That's on my website, kim here.com. Speaker 2 (49:56): Oh, great. I think I'm going to go on there and take that. I love, yeah, I'm a weirdo. I love tests. And it's funny, this is one of the reasons why I started the Naked Librarian is because I've always been interested in learning, and I feel like I've at this point acquired so much information and knowledge that I'm compelled to share it and for the people that want to hear, because my husband is very sweet and supportive, but he doesn't always want to hear about my latest book that I've read. He's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, and I know we'll be talking again. This has been wonderful. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this. Speaker 1 (50:54): I hope you enjoy this production of The Naked News. Everything created here is for educational and entertainment purposes and should not take the place of talking with a medical or mental health professional. I am a big believer in movement of all kinds, and when it comes to strength training, sometimes you have to find the thing that works for you. Not everybody enjoys the gym or even home workouts. In fact, as an extrovert, neither of these work for me. But you know what does working out with a friend, if you've been thinking about starting something new, take time to check in with yourself and discover what works for you. And as ever, check in with your favorite healthcare professional. Maybe even get yourself a health and wellness coach. The growing field of health coaching has many highly trained, enthusiastic advocates that bridge the gap between the doctor's office and the healthy habits you want to create. And if you want more wellness news delivered to your inbox and always be the first to know about a new episode of the podcast, head over to naked librarian.com and become a subscriber. In addition to the Naked Librarian Podcast, I also publish recess, a monthly wellness newsletter with Curated health hacks, recipes, book and music recommendations, fun and more, and you get it all for free when you become a naked librarian subscriber. Thank you for tuning in today. I made this for you and cheers to living your very best life.  

Thank you to Modern Aquatic for the music. Track "Laurel Leaves." And to our guest Starlyn Haneman at wholesomerebelwellness.   Speaker 1 (00:00): If you're looking for options beyond stuffing, your feelings, blowing up, acting fine, sucking it up or giving more than you get, come with me on this journey. I've got some good stuff for you. Speaker 2 (00:17): Okay, good Speaker 1 (00:18): News. According to the Mayo Clinic, it's completely normal to occasionally experience anxiety, and this makes sense, right? You're only human, so of course you're going to sometimes worry, have feelings of fear about the future or even nervousness about something fun or exciting, like getting up on a stage in front of 300 people and telling a story about your life. Okay, maybe that last one's just for me. Maybe yours is more like butterflies before a first date or nerves about pitching a project to your boss. And all of this stuff is just part of the human experience, and it doesn't have to be an awful out of control, anxiety attack. It can just come and then the feelings can go. We can even train our minds to notice these thought patterns so we can move through them with greater awareness and self-compassion. But what happens when your anxiety becomes chronic intense, or your default? (01:09): What happens when your anxiety starts to affect your sleep, relationships, confidence, and your health? Hi, I'm Victoria, a recovering anxious person. There's a lot of reasons for this and I'll share a little more in this episode in my conversation with anxiety coach Starlyn Haneman. But I'll give you one big spoiler alert before I knew what to call it. My main way of moving through the world looked like a case of serious hypervigilance. What does that mean exactly? For me, it meant almost always trying to do my best, even when the definition was constantly changing, which would later become a real problem because I didn't understand why I was doing it or where the motivation to be an award-winning human and a non contest with no awards was coming from when I was in school. It meant being the best student I can be. When I became a mom, it was how can I be a great mom when I started teaching in college, same when I got divorced, I wanted to be the best divorced parent possible for my kids, but that's not all. (02:10): My hypervigilance also meant being careful and watching out for mistakes that would mess me up later in life. And then when I would inevitably make mistakes, it would be like, oh shit, and let's write it down. Let's rehearse it. Let's memorize this experience so it can never happen again. Then it meant keeping lookouts. So the same mistake couldn't sneak up on me, and sometimes that worked and sometimes it didn't. But you know what it always was? Even when I had little awareness about what I was doing fucking work, my favorite therapist, Dr. B once told me that it was like I was moving through life on stilts while other people were out there with their feet touching the ground. The worst part was I somehow made stilt walking look like a stroll in the park. Even when it was stormy, I was a master at looking fine, even great, never knowing what I was doing was way more work than the normals. (03:03): So yeah, I was a ball of anxiety and eventually it wrecked my nervous system and I had to handle it, and it took years to see real progress, but eventually I did see progress, and I use these same tools today. I am hopeful that in this way you are not like me. I would not wish chronic anxiety on anyone, but it's possible you got a smidge of what I'm talking about going on, and here's why. There's a lot that happens in our developmental years that makes how we handle life later easier or harder. And turns out how you learn to experience your emotions is a big one. So if you had parents or mentors who taught you that it's okay to disappoint, to make mistakes, to try and fail, to love and lose, to feel sad, to get mad, that you will hurt others and you'll feel bad, but then you'll make it right. (03:53): If you had wise people who taught you to feel you're doing much better than the rest of us. But if you didn't or if your lessons were somehow interrupted or were incomplete, then now is an excellent time in your life to work on this. And the cool thing is it will benefit you immensely, but if you love other people and want to do right by them, it's going to help them too. And you know what else? When you learn to notice your feelings and work with them, your emotional suffering, which is a lot of what anxiety is going to decrease, if you're new to the Naked Librarian, I am so glad you're here. It's true. I am Victoria, the recovering, anxious, perfectionist, people pleaser, and I'm also your host and the creator of the Naked Librarian. I'm a writer, storyteller, and health nerd who is passionate about helping grown ass women navigate life with more self-compassion, energy, happiness, and wonder. (04:44): In today's episode, you're going to meet Starlin Hannaman, an integrative wellness coach who focuses specifically on living with and overcoming your anxiety monster because like me, she believes you deserve so much more. Starlin who runs wholesome Rebel Wellness has her own remarkable story of going toe to toe with anxiety and rebuilding her life from the inside out. I know you'll be inspired by her story, our conversation, and the tools you can glean from noticing your anxious thoughts and how they're participating in the way that you show up in the world. So if you're looking for options beyond stuffing, your feelings, blowing up, acting fine, sucking it up or giving more than you get, come with me on this journey. I've got some good stuff for you. Speaker 3 (05:40): So I'm so glad you can be here today, and we're actually recording on Valentine's Day, and people will listen to this later, and we're going to talk today about anxiety and healthier ways to really manage that. I find it interesting that love today is the day of love and love can be part of that little formula and how we experience our own feelings and emotions. So it's probably one of the pieces of the puzzle. Speaker 4 (06:15): Yes, very much is. Speaker 3 (06:19): Well, I know you have such a unique background, and I'd just love to start by having you share a little bit about yourself and how did you get to this place where you're helping other people and especially women with anxiety? Speaker 4 (06:35): Well, thank you for having me first of all, and yeah, I have mean it's a long, crazy wild ride. But about five years ago I was struggling with anxiety, which I originally didn't even realize was anxiety. I don't like to be weak, and my viewpoint was that if I had anxiety, that was a weakness. So I kept pushing it off. I was using my own coping mechanisms to deal with stress, anxiety, overwhelm, all the things that come along with being a parent and female in our society, I feel. And I was drinking to deal with that, and it helped to kind of numb the feelings and dull the edges and not have things feel quite so hard. Eventually that led to panic attacks because I was ignoring it, and those feelings just build up inside of your body until they have to escape somewhere. So panic attacks started happening. (07:46): I finally broke down and went to the doctor and they prescribed me medication, which I feel most people can relate to if they have anxiety. I started taking it. I did not like how I felt on it. It just didn't feel like me. Things just felt a little bit off and I knew that there were things I could be doing. I just hadn't wanted to try them. Some of those things involved, like you said, love self-love. I was in a place more of self-loathing, I believe, and I sort of went on a journey of trying to figure out what would work for me because I am a 100% di iyer. I like to figure things out on my own. I like to fix things, and I figured this could be something that I could do myself, but it took getting to that rock bottom and realizing I had to make a change, and I went on a personal journey of figuring out what worked and what didn't. And now I'm on the other side of that and it's amazing. Speaker 3 (08:58): Wow. I love what you said about self-love versus self-loathing because I feel like for those of us who've experienced anxiety, we sometimes don't even realize how our thoughts are participating in how we're feeling. And you talked a little bit about this feeling of not wanting to feel weak, and that really resonates with me. I feel like a lot of my life and a positive part of my identity that I associated with was feeling strong and capable and overcoming, and it is almost like the resisting of a feeling of weakness or dependence. And we were chatting earlier before the call about how much our family backgrounds play into that, and I can certainly almost draw a straight line to experiences of why I really decided to form an identity specifically around strong, capable, and independent. And those are wonderful qualities to be, and many of us, they're really tied to resilience and many of us need to cultivate those, but it's also this almost like this limited supply. We don't know that. We don't know that we have a limited supply of it. And so when it's like you're starting, the threads starting to run out, it just exacerbates that fear of, oh no, what's going to happen? So you had your personal experience and it sounds like you started finding practices, things that worked, things that didn't work, and then you decided, okay, I've learned these things for myself. Maybe I want to teach this to other people. So did you go back to school? What was that like? Speaker 4 (11:01): Yeah, so decided that I had gone to school previously for food science and human nutrition because I love food and I do see it as such a great tool to heal. I do think it can be medicine, but I did not want to be a registered dietician. I didn't want to tell people what to eat. And so I kind of backed away from that. And so after my journey, I decided I really want to make an impact. I really want to help people, but I don't think it's just food. I think there's just so many lifestyle changes that we can make so many different ways we can impact our mental and physical health just by making small changes in our life. So I went back to school, I went to the Institute for Integrative Nutrition to a health coach, and that really took more of a holistic approach of all the different ways that we can make changes in our lives that aren't just food and exercise, so to speak. Speaker 3 (12:09): I think that it's holistic is one of my, I think my favorite words. I love how it applies to so many things that I value, and I think a holistic view of health is so important. And even though in some of the circles that I am in, it's almost now mainstream, that everyone's sort of looking at their health holistically. It really is not always been introduced to people even at our age. And so I love that this is important work that you get to do. I also think it's really cool how you look at pieces in order to help with the whole, and I happen to know that you are also a Harley Davidson mechanic, which I just feel like I need to bow to you or something like that. That is your sign behind you says badass, and that's the most badass woman thing I could think of. So okay, there's got to be a story in here about how you became a motorcycle mechanic, but I'm also curious if that mind of, you said you're a DI wire that mind of figuring something out, so something goes or runs. Is there a relationship there between that work and what you do now? Speaker 4 (13:33): I hadn't completely thought of it that way, but I think you might be right. I became a mechanic probably because I really did love doing things that weren't mainstream and I dunno, shock value, but I did love working on my car with my dad and I grew up with parents that rode motorcycles and I started racing motocross. And one day I found an advertisement and a motorcycle magazine about going to motorcycle mechanic school, and my dad was like, great. He was totally on board to have a motorcycle mechanic in the family. And there may have been a little bit of like, oh, I can, I don't know, gain some extra love from my dad or appreciation. There's that feeling of that child to parent relationship where you're like, oh, look at me. My dad will love me even more if I do this. Not that he didn't already love me, but that was probably part of my view. (14:36): So I went on to be a mechanic, and I think that may have been what really triggered a lot of my anxiety originally and learning how to pack things in because I was in a who it was 100% masculine environment. I couldn't have any feminine there really. It wasn't really safe because I had to go to work and I had to be the best. I couldn't make a mistake because if I made a mistake, it was because I was a woman. It wasn't because I was human. So I had to be the very best every single day, no doubt about it. And at that point, I was almost able to be equal, but I could never be up here. There was always a doubt. And so there's a lot to process in that I still am working on where I had to prove myself and I was never worthy. (15:36): So that can really start to weigh on someone. And I became so unhappy in that job that I would just wake up every day and cry and then I'd get off work and I would drink to deal with the stress of it. And that just sort of over time, but it pushed me into that identity where I didn't feel it was safe to be feminine or show that feminine energy, and I always had to be capable and I always had to be able to do the things. So I never allowed myself to make mistakes or to be soft. So ideas like meditation or gratitude, they always felt so fluffy to me. I was like, I was a doer, a pusher, and those things felt like, how could they help me until I tried them? And then I was like, whoa. Speaker 3 (16:25): Yeah, I think your story is so relatable, which is so surprising given that most women are not motorcycle mechanics. But I think your experience is such an extreme way. I know there's other careers like stem and medicine that sometimes women talk about this in sports, but I really relate to this story in a different way. I was very young when I started teaching in college, and I always looked younger than I was and I'm small. I'm five three, so I am not an intimidating presence. I'm blonde. I had a lot of things on the outside, young, blonde, small that didn't look like college professor. And the first couple of semesters that I taught, I was so uptight about doing it all right, and it was my own hangups in that environment. I could have been softer, but I was worried about not being perceived as an authority. I was worried about being perceived as not smart because of what my appearance and what I looked like, and I put so much pressure on myself that was unnecessary. And in fact, I still remember when I had my second son and I had been teaching my first semester at the University of Portland, I was finishing up, I had a really sweet group of freshmen, and I think on the last day I mentioned I was going to go home and see my kids and they were like, what? You have children? (18:14): It wasn't my age or what I looked like. They were just truly flabbergasted that I had never talked about them before, that I never mentioned them. And I was working so hard on that exterior persona of like, I just want you to see me as your teacher and we talk about the things that you read and write, and it's comedic to me today that I thought that was great. But I think what we're getting at is that when we create these divisions within ourselves, even when it feels necessary, that's not helping how we're processing stress. And so that was one of the other questions I had for you is I think that, and we haven't really defined anxiety. I remember when anxiety became part of my conversation and repertoire with my therapist, but I think a word that a lot of people associate is stress and that feeling of stress and overwhelm. And so where does anxiety fit and is it part of a spectrum? Are they sisters? Are they the same thing? Speaker 1 (19:32): Hey, it's Victoria here and we'll get right back to our episode in just a moment. But first I have a question for you. Are you 45 or older? Do you know someone who is a, you answered yes to either of these questions. I have the perfect gift for you or your loved ones. It's thoughtful, funny, and original because nothing says you care. And I got your back like the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy and activity book for grownups. The American Cancer Society's Guidelines move the colonoscopy age from 50 to 45 years old. So if you haven't scheduled yours, now is the time. This activity book is the companion experience to colonoscopy with 10 fun-filled activities and loads of hilarious trivia to keep you entertained while you count down from limited diet to final purge. There's even a colon maze you can do while you're waiting for the nurse to call you back for your procedure. Ordering your copy is easy. You can get yours on Amazon. Just search the Naked Librarian's guide to your first colonoscopy. Did I mention we're number one in the colorectal category? In the meantime, make your list of friends and family. You want to delight in this rare and exciting gift. And as we say over at the Naked Librarian bottoms up, Speaker 4 (20:39): I would say that they're closer to sisters. They're siblings of sorts, but stress is more of that pressure and we can put physical stress on us. It can be a mental stress workload, or we can do the physical where it's working out or sauna, cold plunge. Those are all physical stressors, and sometimes those stressors can be good for us, but anxiety is more of a feeling and energy within us that sometimes we don't even know where it comes from. It's just all of a sudden in there and it's causing that overwhelmed feeling where you're like, I can't breathe, or My stomach hurts, and you're like, what's happening? Whereas stress, you kind of know where stress comes from. Sometimes anxiety, you can be like, oh, that's a trigger for me. I know what that is. But a lot of times you don't even know what brings it on because my belief is we've gotten so good at ignoring ourselves and what our intuition is telling us that we don't even know what's triggering us or we're just like, go away. I don't want to deal with that round now. I don't have time for it. And it becomes an energy within us that refuses to be ignored anymore. Speaker 3 (22:01): Oh, that's such a helpful explanation. So almost the semi-conscious or subconscious nature of something kind of gnawing at us and saying, I don't have time for this, or something that I used to do before I started realizing it was a problem. I think I knew it was a problem, but it was, oh, I can't cry now I have on makeup, and then I'll go into this meeting and everyone will see that I've been crying and I don't want that, so I'm not going to feel this now and I'm going to deal with that later. And I ended up with a very unique experience where I went through several years of actually not being able to cry, and it was almost like somewhere along the way I shoved it away so much that I got stuck. I was in working with my therapist specifically at that point, wanting to cry, desperate to cry because my body was kind of jacked with anxiety. (23:20): This was around the time my sister passed away about 15 years ago, and her death was very sudden. She died from a drug overdose, and she had been in recovery, she had had a lot of off and on again, periods of time of sobriety, but at the time she was in a pretty good place. And so it was very shocking. And something like that isn't just her death, it's also all the family memories and all the relationships. And so I started experiencing, I had equilibrium, which took me time to even understand because when I went to her memorial, it was in Georgia and it was summer and the ceiling fans were on. So I thought it was some kind of weird thing with looking up at a ceiling fan and this is what your mind will do. It took me a long time to go, oh my gosh, I am dizzy and I feel like I'm going to fall down. (24:28): So I had these weird symptoms. I had the heart racing, just the constant chattering and talking, and I've written about this before, and my joke was that my anxiety was on 24 7 except when it went out for smoke breaks. So I was mainly, some people were having anxiety attacks. I was like an anxiety being who occasionally got little breaks, which I didn't know how to control. And so yeah, it was just a storm. And I hope for people who are listening, that doesn't ever happen to you because it's so hard. And it really took me, I mean this sounds dismal, but it took me years to, not 10 years, but it took me a couple of years, took me not just the years, but things that I needed to stop doing, relationships that needed to end, things like that, that had to happen in order for me to make that space and get well. (25:36): So I hope that that's not your experience, anyone who's listening, but I think that maybe you can hear it as a cautionary tale. I think yours is also in that cautionary tale, that there were things that were happening, little red flags, little bad habits that had helped us habits, let's take the bad out of it, habits that had helped us survive in life, that had stopped being helped, they were now hurting. So in your experience working with people, what are some of those little anxiety flags, that little habits that we might be doing that we can begin to notice? Speaker 4 (26:29): So one of those things is any time that you all of a sudden want to avoid something that can kind of be a trigger where it's like you should notice that where you're trying to avoid feeling a certain way. So you grab your phone to just start scrolling or you want to drink or smoke or it could be working. Some people use work as an avoidance because it takes their mind off of whatever it is that they're doing. Shopping, online shopping is a big one where people just want to get that hit that makes them feel good in the moment, and then all of a sudden they have a million Amazon packages and they're like, I don't even know why I ordered those, but it was their form of where I would drink, they would shop, and it's just to get us to feel good and to not be in that anxious feeling. (27:28): So when you're doing those things as an avoidance technique, I would personally recommend that if you start to do that and notice it, stop and take a breath and just try and sit with it and see if you can actually realize where it's coming from, because there's the times that you don't know. But if you sit with it long enough, you'll usually figure it out. You will start to cue in to be like, oh, that thing happened. I didn't like it, but I don't want to admit that I didn't like that, or I don't want to have to address that. I don't want to have to talk to my husband about that, or I don't want to have to talk to my boss about that. And so we kind of internalize that, and it might show up hours, days later, but it's a feeling your brain's been processing it and it suddenly starts to come out. So I think that the big ones are just those avoidance techniques and when you start to see that you're using them not for just like, oh, social media, I want to see what so-and-so's up to, but you're using it just as, I just need to escape right now. That is a flag that should be looked at. Speaker 1 (28:37): Hey, it's Victoria here, and I've got a message for all the business owners out there. Does your business or organization have an important mission? Then you need to know about mission flow? Mission Flow is an all in one sales and marketing platform for purpose-driven businesses. The mission flow platform is specifically designed to empower thought leaders, social entrepreneurs, local and family owned businesses and nonprofits to do more good with comprehensive marketing tools from web building to scheduling to email and SMS automation. And the best part, mission flow. Clients get more than tools. They get access to an award-winning marketing strategist, professional copywriter, and amazing customer support team. If you're looking for a better way to market your mission and grow your business, visit get mission flow.com. Speaker 3 (29:31): And that's so good. Just that little practice of noticing when, or I wonder too about sometimes we were like, something's bothering me. I don't even know what it is. And we can sit with that and go, oh, it was that comment my friend made. I didn't like that. That really bothered me or hurt my feelings. And you, we have choices, but not if we don't admit that something really hurt us or bothered us sometimes it's like, oh, well that hurt my feelings because it reminded me of when I was in third grade and Adam said that I don't need to talk to her about it. Now I understand why I'm upset. But other times it's like she's kind of got a pattern going of saying these kinds of things and she's got no idea how it's landing for me and take a lot of courage, and maybe it's time to have a courageous conversation. (30:37): So I think that one of the things that I've had to learn is to actually not think too hard because that was a problem. When I first started therapy, I always wanted my therapist to give me homework and books, and he was like, Nope, you don't get any. And I was like, why? I feel like we talked about stuff and I just want to learn more about it. He's like, yeah, you've learned enough. You're full of learning. Why don't you? Yeah, I remember the day where he was like, okay, great. Yeah, I've got a homework assignment for you. I'm like, perfect. Okay. What is it? I'm ready. He's like, your homework is to love yourself. And I'm like, what does that even mean? Love myself? And I really had no idea what he meant. Thankfully, this was years ago, many years of loving myself since, but I really was like, well, first, that's stupid. That was my main thought. Well, that's dumb. This is the dumbest homework I've ever even heard of. And what even is that? And who's to say that I don't? So I've had to learn that sometimes we are talking about sitting with it and usually we can figure it out, but is it always our thinking brain that we're using to do that? What else is happening? Speaker 4 (32:05): I definitely don't think that you can definitely get into an overthinking pattern, which obviously can trigger more anxiety. But I like what you said about the self-love, learn to love yourself, which I believe could be what triggered a lot of this anxiety to begin with. We weren't true to ourselves. We built up those walls, we stuffed ourselves into those boxes. We made those rules of I need to be capable. I need to show them that I am this type of person. And we didn't allow ourselves to be fully expressed. And so that process of self-love is allowing all of you to be out there in the world. So that is a huge part of becoming who you were meant to be, right? Which allows, I think that anxiety to dissipate because you are loving yourself, you're accepting yourself exactly as you are, and you're not trying to cut off part of you like, oh, there, I'm just going to cut off my arm. (33:09): I don't need that. But subconsciously, obviously. So yeah, finding ways to love yourself to sit with yourself, not overthink things, but feel things, get those feelings. You don't have to think about it with your brain necessarily, but when someone says something to you that you don't like, you usually can feel it in your body, but we also maybe don't love ourselves enough or we think, oh, I'm overreacting. How many times have you told yourself I'm overreacting? Maybe you're hearing a parent's voice in your head where they told you quit overreacting. We haven't been allowed to feel, we come from a generation where feeling wasn't always approved of it wasn't something that we were supposed to do. It was just get on with life, push through it, buck up, move on. And so we're having to retrain ourselves things that hopefully our children are learning at a much younger age than we did, because I think that we were done a huge disservice, obviously not being allowed to feel in the way that children are now. Speaker 3 (34:31): Yeah, I can hear my grandmother say, which sounds crazy now, or if you cried, stop that, or I'll give you something to cry about. But my grandmother would say, children are to be seen and not heard. And that was her big response to what she called back talking. And so when we spent time with my grandmother and all of our other cousins, of course there would be conflicts, and there was no responsible adult to help us navigate that because we were not supposed to have problems, I guess, or we were supposed to. It would've been nice to have been equipped. And I don't blame my grandmother, she wasn't empowered with any of these tools, and she was just repeating things that she heard. But I think a little bit about something I've been trying to do with my sons, because I think that I have three sons. (35:27): So my experience as a woman, I have my own issues with how the world perceives me and how I show up. And then I think about my sons who are also giving a lot of mixed messages about what it means to be a young man. And sometimes it's share your feelings, but then other times there's still a lot of coded messaging around strength and the perception of that, and that's changing, but it's not maybe where it will be. And so one of the things that I'm helping them with is something that I've been helping myself with, which is just putting language to the feeling. And so I've had fun conversations with my 15-year-old where I, I'll say, well, how did that make you feel? And he'll say, fine. And I say, well, what else? And he'll say, well, ask me questions. And I said, well, do you maybe feel disappointed? (36:29): Yeah, a little actually, I was surprised. I was surprised when that happened. And we end up kind of building this bigger emotional lexicon, and in an attempt to kind of pass the generational baton, it's like, okay, I didn't get this training, but I'm getting it now. I'm learning it now. Let's see how much I can impart so that maybe you have more range. I like to think of it as emotional range. And to me that's kind of almost like the flip side of anxiety. We have our very anxious state and then we have potential emotional range that we can develop. And turns out I'm a highly sensitive emotional person, so no wonder stuffing all my feelings wasn't working so good. So what are some of the practices that you feel like are just a good place to start when it comes to managing anxiety or managing these conflicting feelings? If somebody's not ready to call it anxiety, the capital A. Speaker 4 (37:46): If you're having those feelings, I would recommend to start to notice your avoidance techniques. So whether that's drinking, eating, scrolling, notice when those things are happening, try to sit with yourself, learn to be comfortable in the uncomfortable because those feelings are uncomfortable. Those we've been avoiding them for a reason. They are uncomfortable, but they won't kill us. And I think that that was a big turning point for me when I realized that my feelings were just feelings. My thoughts were just in my head and none of them were going to kill me. I just had to be okay with sitting there, and I just never wanted to sit with them because it sucked. But I finally started meditating and I started with three minutes of guided meditation because at least there was another voice and it was telling me what to do. And I was like, okay, I can do this. (38:42): And I worked my way up. 10 minutes is usually about all I have time for in my life, but it's perfect because it's 10 minutes of just sitting thoughts come in and out. I might be uncomfortable, I might hate it, but I do it and I'm like, oh, and I didn't die. I started a gratitude practice where I was journaling every night because when we are anxious, we kind of get this tunnel vision where we're only thinking about the bad, the negative. We don't see the beauty of life, we don't see the positives, and we are just looking at everything that is going wrong and how nothing is right, and we get in that spiral. So when we start to focus on just those good things, they can be anything. It can be I have a roof over my head, I have a warm shower in the morning. (39:33): I have kids that are loud and obnoxious and they make a mess, but they love me and I love that it doesn't all have to be the most amazing things. You don't have to have a million dollars to be grateful for. It can be teeny tiny things. The broccoli I had at dinner tonight was amazing. It can be those things, but just to draw your focus just for a minute where you can start to pick those out and getting time outside, moving your body outside. Nature. Mother Nature is so wonderful. She has so many things to offer us. The expansion of being outside. A lot of us are in front of our computers a lot. We get that tunnel view kind of with anxiety when we go out and we see the big wide world can kind of expand us and not to mention all the benefits of the light for helping us with circadian rhythms plus the vitamin D, and then just moving your body out there. You don't have to go out there and exercise or go for a run per se, just go out and walk and move. That movement will help you move any of those anxious feelings through your body and hopefully out. Those are the easiest, simplest, they will cost you nothing techniques to just start to be aware and start to get out of that state. Speaker 3 (40:51): And I feel like everything you described, there's almost an immediate reward for right? It's almost never happened that you go outside and go for even a leisurely walk and come back in and go, well, that was a waste of time. Almost like never happens. And the gratitudes, which I so believe in those might be a little harder to see the change over time, but I encountered some great terminology around gratitudes that I've been hanging onto. One psychologist talked about them, as he said, a lot of times we're very focused on what he calls the headwinds of our lives, which are all the things that are coming at us, but we don't often have the same insight around the tailwinds. And those are the things in our lives that are making it easier, better, rewarding. And yeah, sometimes it is the roof over your head, but sometimes it's your dog and you're just like, oh, I'm so glad, so grateful for my dog or these fuzzy socks. (42:05): My feet are cold. And it's amazing. It's almost impossible not to find something to be grateful for. And I've been writing gratitudes mostly in the morning when I journal, but I also recently started doing this at night and I was noticing I wasn't getting as great of a night's sleep as I need and want. And I just had this intuition to, well, it wasn't even to write gratitudes. It was like, I think I need a journal before I go to bed and see if I can get some of these thoughts out. And then I was like, and now I'm going to write just intuitively and now I'm going to write some things. I'm thankful for it. I slept so great, and I am going to keep practicing this to see if it's a continuation, but I am going to keep doing it because I feel like one of the things about midlife is it's getting a little more harder to sleep. (43:02): And if there's some things that I can do just on a very simple way, like journaling and reminding myself of what I'm grateful for before I sleep, then why not do it? I love how you said they're all free and they don't really cost anything. I mean, in a way they do. There is a cost, which is that we have to prioritize ourselves. We have to believe that we matter and that we have an urgency to us just like our small children did when they were growing up, that it's a need that needs to be addressed now and not my favorite game kick the can just going to kick the old can down the road. I'll deal with that later. Later comes around and you're like, oh God, that is the worst. Why do I do this? So well, I have just been so delighted with our conversation and if people want to find you, where should they look? Speaker 4 (44:12): I am really active on Instagram at Hanman, and they can also find me at my [email protected]. I do have a freebie. It's an anxiety SOS toolkit, and it gives you a couple tools if you are dealing with anxiety in that moment. And then it gives you a couple tools to help you with changing your anxiety feelings over time. So it's more of a long-term practice. So I've got both of those inside that toolkit and it's totally free, and you can find that on my website or on Instagram. It's in my bio. Speaker 3 (44:48): I love that you have that. That's so useful too, just to be able to spend some time with your individual experiences, because I know we've been talking about our own, but also just broadly. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and I'd love to have you back another time. I feel like we have more that we can talk about. Speaker 4 (45:14): Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Speaker 1 (45:18): I hope you enjoyed this production of The Naked News. Everything created here is for educational and entertainment purposes and should not take the place of talking with a medical or mental health professional. I am a big believer in therapy, and sometimes you really need a guide to walk with you through all those feelings and experiences you've been avoiding. If you've been thinking about finding a great therapist, let me be the first to say, go for it. And if you want more wellness news delivered to your inbox, and always be the first to know about a new episode of the podcast, head over to naked librarian.com and become a subscriber. In addition to the Naked Librarian Podcast, I also publish recess, a monthly wellness newsletter with curated health hacks, recipes, books and music recommendations, fun and more, and you get all of it for free when you become a Naked Librarian subscriber. Thank you for tuning in today. I made this for you and cheers to living your very best life. Speaker 2 (48:00): I will take you. Tell me anything you.  

Victoria: So I heard recently that the average person has roughly 13 secrets, and this came from a researcher who studies secrecy and the effects of keeping secrets. So it's got some science behind it, but still I thought that can't be true. I mean, not of me. I'm an honest person, I'm an open book. I even write and talk about topics that scare other people, but the whole idea really got under my skin. I thought maybe I do have secrets. Maybe I'm just so good at keeping them, I have kept them from myself. So I did what I always do when I get a little hung up. I consulted the dictionary. And here's how Webster defines the word secret: information you're keeping from people close to you. And that's when I remembered the secret I had recently revealed to my husband. The truth was, for the entire time I was dating my husband and into the first year of our marriage, I had been seeing another man that Kyle knew nothing about.     I might say I had a doctor's appointment or that I needed to run an errand, but what I never said is that I am going to see Dr. Gardner. I kept Dr. G a secret from Kyle, but my girlfriends knew all about him. That's because Dr. G had a very specific set of skills, and he brought a lot of comfort and meaning to my life. Dr. Gardner is a fabulous proctologist who started the Oregon Hemorrhoid Clinic, where he continues to practice with three other doctors. And Dr. G had come into my life after I had long ignored that I was very uncomfortable, well, back there. Victoria: Hi friends. If you're new to the Naked Librarian, welcome. I'm Victoria Payne, and I created The Naked Librarian because I wanted a place to share health and happiness news with grown-ass women. In today's episode called “Worst Kept Secret: A Painless and Effective Treatment for Hemorrhoids, we're talking about that pain in your ass. It's a very informative and practical show, and it's also the final episode in our first season. So if you're not caught up on all the Naked News, please have a ball binging on episodes about emotional first aid, women and self-sacrifice, how to stop hating your clothes, and more—not to mention the precursor to today's episode called Poop Hacks. Alright, now back to Secrets and Health and why we can be so weird about it all. So I honestly never planned to tell Kyle about Dr. G. The problem was Kyle had been producing my podcast and I didn't want him to hear about Dr.G for the first time while he was editing. And so on a Sunday morning, I handed him his coffee and brought up, as you do, that I wanted to do an episode on non-surgical hemorrhoid treatments because it is honestly one of the very few medical procedures that I have had done that has totally changed my life. And that's how my husband learned of my long health secret. And it's funny how I feel better having told him, but I'm pretty sure Kyle's feels worse. Kyle was raised by Midwestern parents who mostly communicate through code language. So this conversation really felt like daring him to love me. And as fate would have it, after I told him the truth about the other man, I also decided to start producing the podcast myself. So in the end, I gave up a secret I could have kept forever, but what's a little personal growth without a few awkward displays of courage? Victoria: Butt health—it seems almost too personal to talk about. But let me ask you this. How is it that nature dictates that women must bleed in order to be fertile, engage in sexual intercourse, to make babies, then push humans out of our vagina? And yet all of these topics are considered impolite conversation. And those babies, well, they change our bodies and stuff can get a little inside outwards, if you know what I mean. But because it's private, a lot of women, and I was one of them, literally grin and bear it for years. And here's another confession for you. I may have created the entire Naked Librarian platform just so I could tell you about Dr. Gardner and the amazing work he does because where else can I get a megaphone and tell the world about how much better your life can be when you get your hemorrhoids handled? And that unbeknownst to a lot of people, there's a treatment method for both women and men that is practically painless and the recovery is fast. Seriously, like after this episode drops, I could just peace out knowing I had made the world a better place. Victoria: So let me introduce you to the experts on the show today. I invited Dr. Steven Gardner and his colleague Dr. Maria Siri to talk about hemorrhoids and hemorrhoid treatment. Now, one of their most popular treatments is called the Kei Technique, and there's a good chance you have never heard of it. The Keesey technique is a type of electrotherapy treatment for internal hemorrhoids using a negative galvanic electrical current that's sent to the hemorrhoidal tissue of the rectum and causes your body to heal from the inside out. And I'm here to testify that it not is only practically painless—it works! So, inside the episode, you're going to hear directly from these awesome doctors who provide compassionate care to people every single day. Dr. Steven Gardner is a licensed naturopath and chiropractor who's been practicing for four decades. And Dr. Maria Siri is a board certified naturopath who's been specializing in proctology for 11 years. People come from all over the world to see them at their Oregon clinic, including some famous people that they have course were not allowed to reveal. But think of it, how humanizing to know that even the stars need someone to look after their bum. So, if you're at all curious, join me for a short informative conversation on butts and wellness. Victoria: So something I was thinking about when I wanted to invite you onto this call is that I've gotten to know you a little bit Dr. Gardner over the years, but what's funny about that is I actually had more than one referral to come and see you for a couple of years before I actually came in. And at some point it was like the universe was conspiring— my primary care doctor had given me the information to the clinic and my really trusted chiropractor had also given me the information. And so I just really put it off. And I remember our first conversation was kind of something like, so how long have you been dealing with this problem? And I was really embarrassed to admit my answer, which was about 20 years, which at the time was the age of my oldest son. And so I'm just kind of curious, in both of your experiences, how common is that that people delay coming in to see you and why do you think that is? Dr. Maria Siri: That's so common that I hear that every day that people have 20, 30 years have wanted to do something and they've been to other doctors and a lot of times they'll tell 'em there's nothing you can do or it's not worth going through the procedure to get it, so just kind of deal with it. And so they don't do anything or they're too embarrassed to tell anybody about it. And yeah, years go by and then finally, I mean, nobody wants to come to this appointment. They think it's going to be horrible. And I mean I can understand that it's embarrassing for sure, but most of the time they come in they're like, I can't believe I waited this long. Dr. Gardener: I'd like to add a little bit to that. I think we're kind of in a time when people are more aware and also more willing to take the risk, if you will, to get a problem solved. For years and years, people wouldn't talk about these things. Also, if you had a child and you may be going to have another, you're not sure when to go about getting some repairs done or being evaluated. So we're now in a place where people are more commonly willing to go and take care of things. Victoria: I didn't even think about that. I obviously waited until all my children were born and there were issues in between and it would've been really helpful to have come in between pregnancies. And so now I'm kind of curious, would that be your recommendation that people would get treatment as they go, or would it be to wait? Dr. Gardner: Well, I think it's very good to go between birthing and part of the reason is that during labor and delivery there can be a lot of swelling. So if we can prevent that from being as bad as it was before or not happening at all, then we're pretty pleased about that. So that's what we try to do is get things fixed as good as we can while it's sometime before the next pregnancy and birth. Dr. Siri: And we give lots of good recommendations to help with the labor and delivery process to help. So you know what to do right afterwards or during to help not get so many issues. Victoria: Oh yeah, gosh, that would've been really helpful. I feel like thinking back to all the information I was reading about when I was pregnant and what kind of birth you wanted to have, I feel like this was definitely an oversight in my personal education. So there's kind of the stuff that we don't know or we don't talk about, but I'm also curious in your experience, what are some of people's misunderstandings about hemorrhoids, about hemorrhoid health? Dr. Siri:  I think a lot of people think when they hear hemorrhoid that it's like some people think it's a big disease, they're not quite sure what it is. A lot of times people come in thinking that they have cancer. I would think that most of the time I have to reassure that this isn't cancer. This is something common that a lot of people deal with, nobody talks about. And people are pretty relieved with just that response, but they don't really know what it is. And a lot of times if you just see just your primary care, they won't do a full exam we would do into the rectum area. So it's unclear about what's really happening until we can actually really get in there and take a look. Dr. Gardener:  And they may have a fear that this is going to be really painful and awful because anyone that's been through traditional hemorrhoid care has suffered quite a bit and we're trying very hard not to have that happen. But they don't know that about us unless they talk to who's been here before. Now we have so many people referring to us, other physician’s birthing centers, even urgent care places that refer to us because they've heard that our treatment basically is far less traumatic and painful than you might expect at a different office. Victoria:  And that's honestly part of what I want to get the word out about because for all the people and for all the women like me who put it off, it was, I dunno if delightful is the right word, but it was so nice to discover that it was not very, in my experience, not very painful, especially compared to some of the other experiences I had had everything from childbirth to other injuries. So, I in a few minutes I want to have you guys walk through a little bit about how the treatment works and what makes it different, especially from maybe someone's preconceived notions. But first I'm really curious about how you talk about what you do when you're not at work. So if you're at a party or if you're making a new friend, how do you talk about what you do? What do you call it? Dr. Gardener:  I'll let Dr. Siri answer that. I Dr. Siri: Usually say that I'm in proctology and then I'll go about, I mostly treat hemorrhoids and people get very curious at that point. And usually there's a lot of laughter that comes along with it. The funny part about talking to people is everybody kind of laughs about it at first and then always later that night, next day I get a text, I get an email, so there's something I can do about this. So that's the best. But mostly it always ends up being kind of funny. People don't really know how to respond about what do you do? Dr. Gardener: I'm thinking about how often someone asks what I do and I tell 'em, I fix bottoms. What is that? I say, well, I'm a proctologist. And then there'll be that sort of squinty look and oh no, what is that and what do you do? And sometimes the spouse will tell on the other spouse, “Yeah, you need to go see that doctor. I know you have those kinds of problems.” And then that makes for laughter and a little bit of red face. But what it does is just open up the conversation so people don't feel so petrified to talk about it. So 46 years now, I've been fixing bottoms so to speak. And so I have no problem talking about it to anyone. And if you knew the common people that have been here, you would all smile because you wouldn't know this from before. But many, many people that are very famous have been here. And that's a lot of resource for us because they refer others. You have people from many different countries that come. Victoria: Yeah, and I'm so curious about that. I have a question coming up. I'm going to ask you more about that. So I know Dr. Gardner, you said that you've been doing it for 46 years. Dr. Siri, remind me how long you've been practicing. Dr. Siri: 11 years. Victoria: 11 years, okay. So how did each of you get into this specialty? Dr. Gardener:  I really found out about it when I was in medical school and I had an episode of internal and external hemorrhoids because I was drinking a lot of coffee and staying up late studying. And one of my professors who was also a proctologist, I thought it was the keen to go talk to him. And that was Dr. Jay Oliver. And he invited me to come in and watch what he does. And the more I watched, the more I became curious about it. And so that was just the way I was guided into it. I had the treatment myself Dr. Siri: And I learned everything from Dr. Gardner. So he taught at the school and I got interested in what was happening there. And I came to the clinic and did preceptorship here during school for about two years. And then when I was done, I started, and I've been here now for 11 years and learned pretty much everything from Dr. Gardner. Dr. Gardener: See, I knew her as a student. I knew she was a hard worker and very bright and it was only a matter of time when she could figure out whether she wanted to give this a try or not. And she's been spectacular. Of course. I wish we had more like her. Victoria:  I know you have told me that before. I love the relationships that you guys have with each other. It's so clear when you come into your office that you all like what you do and you like each other. Dr. Siri: I said, we do have a lot of fun here. Victoria: I sense that and you'd have to in this special line of work. Special line of work. So I mentioned earlier that in my experience, the process was so much less painful than maybe I expected, a very quick treatment in the treatments that I've had. I came in initially about eight years ago. I come back from time to time because somewhere between aging and just an active lifestyle seems like something will come up and it's so nice knowing that I don't have to live with that. But for someone who's never been treated for hemorrhoids or has maybe had some other kind of treatment, how does your treatment work and how is it different from other treatments that are out there? Dr. Gardener: So what we use primarily to treat patients with is a direct current of electricity. That is we isolate the site and we want to treat and then we apply an electrical current that causes that site to turn white, then shrivel up and shrink away. We can regulate how much electricity or how long we treat so that the patient doesn't have to have a lot of discomfort sometimes. In fact, some patients won't feel hardly anything at all. It just depends on how the nerve supply and how it is for that patient. But it allows us to treat with very little discomfort. It may take a little longer, but usually not, and people go through it pretty fast. What's nice about that is that you don't have to do any cutting, so to speak, or any banding. So it's a lot less strong. It goes by quickly. And generally we're isolating a one or two spots at a time. Victoria: When you say electricity or electrical current, that might sound pretty scary to somebody. Is this the regular old kind of electricity we're talking about? Dr. Gardener:  No, it's not. It's an alternate or AC current. It's a direct current. So we can regulate the intensity of it so well and that makes it a lot better. Dr. Siri: And there's not a lot of nervous tissue where we treat, so it's surprisingly not as uncomfortable as you'd think it would be. Victoria:  And also the recovery time in my experience has been pretty quick. Is that common that sometimes within 24 hours I am back to my normal life? Is that common for everyone or is it individual in terms of how long it takes for somebody to recover after treatment Dr. Gardner: For certain 90% or more are really not in any distress. Some have a spot of blood now and then or feel like it's a tiny bit achy, but it's usually minimal if anything at all. The nice news though is if they're suffering from bleeding or protrusion, even the first treatment will really make a difference in that. It may even eliminate the bleeding that they have off and on for years. We may be able to stop it right away. Victoria: Oh gosh. I am really excited for people to hear about this because there is hope. And I've had a few conversations with friends. I had one friend, in fact, I made an appointment and I saw her and I said, Hey, you're coming with me to this appointment. Because I knew she really needed to have treatment herself, but she was afraid. So I was like, you can come with me, you can sit there, you can see what it's like. And I'm close to converting her. Maybe she'll listen to this podcast and be more ready. So you've talked about how people come from all over the world and you get a lot of referrals. I know in separate conversations that I've had with you, Dr. Gardner, we've talked about why this treatment isn't, or maybe not why, but the fact that not a lot of people do what you do. And why do you think this treatment's not more readily available? Dr. Gardener: There's a lot of possibilities, but the contemporary treatment is banding or surgery or some form of laser. It's not being taught in medical schools all around the country. You'd expect this treatment began many, many years ago. And the current thinking now is that most doctors don't want to treat simple hemorrhoids. They want to refer them out for banding or a surgery. But if they know of us in particular in our area, most everyone knows about us, so they'll send us over their patients or people that don't have the things that they will want to treat. We want to keep people out of the hospital if we can so that it's not so dramatic and not so painful. So we're sort of an alternative to the more common things that are being used by other physicians. I don't know that it'll ever be taught at the same rate as say banding and laser. It's being taught, but that's okay. There's room for all of us. We just happen to think that it's easier to do this. By our experience, most of the doctors in this clinic have also had treatment, so we understand exactly how it feels. Victoria: So I know that I am going to have people listening from all, all over. And if they're not in Oregon can't get to you, what would you recommend for somebody else who couldn't come into the clinic? Is there a name for this kind of treatment that they could research and try to learn more about to see if they are something closer to them? Dr. Gardener: Sure. The name of the treatment is called the Keesey treatment, and that's because of a guy Wilber Keesey that really first started experimenting and using it. We know that there are a few places back east, there's some people in Arizona, there's some people in Colorado. And even now in Montana, we have some other doctors that we've either trained or learned from someone like us. There was also some in Nevada, I don't know of anyone else that does it full-time like we do. In fact, we're now four people doing it. And so we have two women and two men in practice. And so we treat a lot of folks every day. I think some clinics dabble, if you will forgive that word, but don't treat people as frequently as we do. So we're more used to what we see. We can come more quickly with the diagnosis. We know right away if we're going to be able to help or not. So we like to let a patient know right away, yep, we think we can help or this is a problem that needs to be sent to someone else. Victoria:  So we're wrapping up here. I have a question for Dr. Siri. So I know that in addition to Proctology, you also do some other anti-aging treatments. And I think my audience may also be curious about those. So can you say more about some of the other practices or some of the other treatments that you, and I was also curious, do you tend to have patients that come to see you for all of these things or is it pretty separate? Dr. Siri: It can be kind of both. So I also do Botox for people and mostly I got into that because I use Botox on fissures, which is really helpful. So then people notice that I do Botox, so then I'll do Botox for them wherever they would like honestly. So that's always kind of fun. And then I also do some removals of moles and skin tags using a radiosurgery machine. But those are most of the two things I do other than just treating the hemorrhoids. And usually people just kind of come in and they notice a sign that I do that or I'll mention it if they're getting treated for Botox and for a fissure or something, they'll ask if I do it. But I do see people pretty regularly for both, but mostly treating the hemorrhoids is what I mostly do. Victoria: So you're helping people be beautiful from the inside. I like that there's multiple talents there. So I think the last question I have for you guys is one of the things that I like to do for myself and for my audience is to think about how one aspect of health is related to our whole health. And I'm curious if when it comes to hemorrhoid health or bottom health, how is it connected to our greater wellness? Is it just an aspect of aging or is it representative or connected to other things? Dr. Gardener: If I tell people if it weren't for lousy diets and coffee and alcohol, I probably wouldn't have a job. So the things we see at the bottom are often reflecting the kinds of diet or bowel health that a patient has. And so I can tell pretty much right away whether I'm treating a diabetic or not, for example, or someone that has an autoimmune disease by the nature and the quality or lack of quality of health around the anal rectal canal. And so it lets me ask certain questions that might be appropriate about what they eat or what their lifestyle is like. So all of those things work together like that. I wanted to add one more thing if you don't mind. We both treat men and women and some of our patients would refer one or the other of us based on our gender, but we treat both. And I was counting the patients today that were men and women that I have on my side and it's almost 50/50 and age group can be as young as children or I have patients over a hundred occasionally. So I may have a slight bit more women than men, but not too many. And men tend to put things off worse than women and they have to be pushed usually by someone who cares for them to get 'em to come in here. It's an interesting quality of people that we see. Some start off grumpy and not very willing to participate and they end up pretty much being our friends and we're thankful for that. Victoria: Oh, I love that. I know from the men in my life that what you're seeing is true. Yes. If me and my girlfriends are putting off coming in, I can only imagine what some of the men that I know are doing related to that. Well, this has been such a great conversation. I so appreciate you taking the time and helping me share really just some really great, I would say good news and great information with everybody because these are the kinds of topics that I think we're all healthier when we talk about Dr. Gardener: Absolutely. Yeah. We thank you for having us on. Yes, thank you. Victoria: I hope you enjoyed this production of The Naked News. Everything created here is for educational and entertainment purposes and should not take the place of talking with a medical or mental health professional. If you heard something today and thought, Hey, I need to go get this checked out, I say go for it. So thanks again for listening. You're amazing and cheers to living your very best life.    

  So let’s face it: talking about poop is awkward, private, embarrassing, some would even say bad manners. It’s one of those subjects that falls into the taboo category related to bodily functions and fluids like sex and menstruation. But here’s the thing: all of these, and others not mentioned here, are part of a healthy, normal, long life. And it’s not exactly a competition but if it was, poop arguably would top the list because if you don’t go, you won’t live very long. But it’s actually even bigger than that. Because the quality of your stool can tell you something about your health and being regular affects your quality of life on a daily basis.  So in the last few editions of the Naked News, we’ve been talking about how gut health affects everything from your mental health to your immune system. And how often you go is definitely related to your gut health. So if you want to understand the vital role your gut microbiome plays in total elimination, check out the last two episodes entitled How Gut Health Affects Everything, Everywhere, All the Time.  In this edition, called Total Elimination: Facts & Hacks for the Poop Life of Your Dreams, we’re focused on how to set yourself up for success when it comes to what I call your poop life. And while some of what you’re going to discover today is common sense, some of it falls into a category I call ‘the unbelievable shit nobody teaches you’ and another I’ve named poop hacks. Look, I believe you deserve to have the very best life and that includes rock star regularity. Ready, set? Let’s find out what it takes to go.   The Origins of Poop-xiety    Earlier this summer, I went camping with my husband Kyle and his son Wyatt. We had a marvelous time staying three nights at a semi-remote lake in Oregon’s Willamette Forest, sleeping under the stars, hiking in the ancient forests with the dogs, and fishing from our inflatable pontoon boat. Something else that’s great about camping with Kyle is he completely embraces my need to eat in the way I want. And we even planned our meals this way. He and Wyatt had hot dogs and ribs and chips, and I had my own cooler of berries, yogurt, quinoa salad, and half a dozen vegetables. I ate great every day and got a reasonable amount of physical activity and rest. I had lots of down time for reading and ate only one s’more, which is about one more than I usually eat. S'mores taste delicious but generally make me feel gross so I’ve learned to avoid them.  I did so many things right. Still, for the last 2 days and 2 nights, I struggled to have a decent poop. And over the course of my stay, this really affected my happiness. I was uncomfortable and bloated, and frankly, mystified. How could I eat all that fiber and probiotic foods and still miss my morning BM? Despite all of my efforts, I was pretty sure I knew what was wrong. You see the campground where we stayed had pit toilets, which if you don’t camp very much, think of them as glorified porta-potties. When the company comes to clean them, they’re pumping from a hole way down in the ground versus a few feet from your bum, so that part is better. But the part where people go there day/night for days and you catch the scent of waste on your short hike to the restrooms makes it a place where you want to get in and get out. I just couldn’t seem to relax and go as I crouched a foot from the commode and held my nose.  When we got back, I started researching this topic in earnest because it’s not like this was a new problem for me. I have this issue sometimes whether it's a tent, cabin, or hotel. And from talking with my girlfriends I know I’m not alone. So one of the things I learned is something we’re going to cover in today’s episode. Because in addition to a high-fiber diet, hydration, exercise, and a few other things that help you go #2, your body can’t poop unless it’s literally in the ‘rest and digest' state. In other words, your brain can’t signal your body to relax and let go if you’re feeling uptight. So as I did some inner work, and I realized that for me having limited access to a bathroom, a less than desirable toilet, having other people in or waiting for me to exit the bathroom, much less, let’s face it, stinking up a bathroom, were all factors giving me poop-xiety.  So you know how serendipity works. As I was learning all about the need for your body to be in what’s called a parasympathetic state and to do what gastroenterologists affectionately call evacuation, Kyle and I had another trip to take. This time we would be staying in a very nice hotel in Salt Lake City, so Kyle could attend a professional conference. And so as I thought about the trip, I knew that getting into the coveted parasympathetic state at the hotel would be a challenge. That’s because even though I was raised in a hippy-dippy, make love/not war, pro-poop talk family, Kyle was raised with parents that he’s described as having very midwestern values around all things private and polite. And thus, we had been together for over seven years but mostly pretended like neither of us ever pooped. One of us would slip away, turn on a fan, and reappear relaxed and that was as much overt communication we had on the subject of bowel movements. And that’s how I knew if I was going to really have a shot at a great vacation, which for me includes going #2 every single day, I had to upgrade pooping from a secret to what it is: a normal part of life. Now you’ve heard of a pep talk – well sometimes to have the life you want, you have to look someone you love in the eye and have the ‘poop talk.’   From Taboo Topic to Digestive Bliss    And so I packed my parcel of chia seeds in my suitcase for SLC, more on this later, and decided to broach the subject on the first night, which was very fortuitous because the layout of the hotel room had situated a very large king bed about two feet from barn-like door that led to the bathroom. That way one person could do what my sons call ‘drop it like it’s hot’ and the other person can just relax in bed.  We were on our way to a meet and greet, and I was all dressed up and feeling pretty cute in my dress shorts and high heels. I had my arm looped around Kyle’s elbow and we were just strutting down main street in Salt Lake City when I squeezed Kyle’s arm, then blurted. “Real quick. I need you to know that on this trip I really have to prioritize my need to poop.”  Kyle makes a certain face when he’s shocked and looked at me like ‘please make it stop.’  And so I made the whole thing quite brief, but I did explain what I was learning about stress and the ability to you know ‘go,’ and I may have also defined the parasympathetic state before providing my closing argument. “And so, I am telling you because I just need the whole thing to not be a secret. Like sometimes I just need to poop, okay?”  Kyle was quiet the whole time, which was fine. I had acknowledged early that it was going to be an uncomfortable topic. When there was finally silence, he said, “Good talk,” which I have learned from Kyle usually means ‘I hate this topic.” And because I’ve been to lots of therapy, I responded: “Honey, I need more than that.” And so he gave me a hug and validated that I had been very vulnerable, that he understood, and politely asked if we could call it good? And that was good enough for me.  And you know what’s crazy? By getting our taboo topic out into the open, I found that my ability to relax on this trip and go when I needed to go all worked out. Every single day with astounding regularity I met and exceeded evacuation standards and enjoyed myself like only a woman with true gut motility can.  You are probably in a relationship where talking about poop is no big deal. I hope so. In fact, I am now one of you. But what about when you travel and share a bathroom with other people? Some estimates have found that 40% of people struggle to go #2 when they’re away from home. Health experts even have a name for it, and no it’s not poopxiety, although I will probably use this made up word at least one more time—it’s called ‘travel constipation.’ And what about when you’re home and you’re not regular? A lot of us have tried to troubleshoot this issue, and sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there’s a reason why our grandparents loved their prunes and prune juice. Having regular BMs gets harder as we get older. In the last section, we’re going to get into some poop hacks but first let’s review some poop facts. Because you know what they say, the more you know the more you go.    Know Your Shit: Common Sense Poop Facts    So you probably know that how often you go is an indicator of bowel transit time and how long the food you eat stays in your body. I mean that just makes sense. And you probably know when something is off in your poop life because things come out too loose or too hard or not at all. According to medical professionals, a typical, healthy poop is brown, well-formed, sausage-shaped, uniform and thick. It should also feel fairly easy to go. Will Bulsiewicz, a Charleston, South Carolina-based gastroenterologist and the author of The Fiber Fueled Cookbook, says that most people go once or twice a day and it’s pretty common to go in the morning.  Now your routine may be very different or maybe you’re one of the 60-70 million Americans who struggle with digestive issues or gastrointestinal illness, according to the American Gastrointestinal Association Institute. Last year the AGA Institute, began a campaign called “Trust Your Gut” to normalize talking about what they call ‘bowel symptoms’ with your health care provider early, in order to shorten the time between the onset of a problem and significant disruptions in your daily life or the diagnosis of disease. How do you know if you have a problem? Take a little gut check with these questions from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases:   Do you have fewer than three bowel movements per week? Are your stools hard or dry and difficult to pass? Do you feel like there's more stool you'd like to eliminate, but can't?     These would all be reasons to talk with your doctor. And one of the most important reasons to have this conversation is if you’re having discomfort, according to Kenneth Brown, a gastroenterologist in Plano, Texas, and host of the Gut Check Project podcast. And while some bowel disruptions are due to changes in diet, routine, or environment, you don’t want to wait too long because some of these problems can lead to more serious issues. Constipation, in particular according to Stanford Medicine Health Care, can create:  Hemorrhoids Rectal bleeding Anal fissure, or a small tear in the anus Fecal impaction; in other words, a hard, dry stool that cannot be passed Rectal prolapse (when the large intestine pushes out of the rectum)   (By the way, if you’ve been dealing with hemorrhoids which affect up to 50% of men and women, I am working to bring you some bonus content that includes an interview with two wonderful doctors based in Oregon who provide nonsurgical treatments that can restore your bottom to feeling like you’re a teenager again. Stay tuned!) So before we move on to some amazing BM science, allow me to summarize what a healthy poop life looks like:  Going once or twice a day  Going without discomfort  Feeling like you’ve had a complete bowel movement  Of course, please discuss any concerns you have with your doctor. This list is not exhaustive, and I am a health nerd, not a medical professional.  Now that we have a baseline, let’s keep going. Because if you want a happy belly and a winning poop routine, there are a few more things you should know.    How to Be a Wise Ass: Shit They Didn’t Teach You in School    Back when I took science in high school, we spent less than a few weeks covering digestion. And that was mainly to learn the body parts for a test. A lot has changed in 30 years and one of the big revelations is our understanding of gut health. I’ll keep this part brief, since I’ve done two whole episodes on this topic. But here's the part you need to know for today. Your gut health is more than the quality of food you put in your body, although that’s one of the big ones. It’s actually about the quality of good bacteria you have in your gut. As we discussed in earlier episodes, plant diversity and probiotic foods are really important when it comes to a healthy gut microbiome. So, one of the first ways you can address your poop life is to focus on your diet. We’ll get into some particulars in the poop hack section, but I want to plug gut health because it’s really the foundation for improving your regularity.  Another very important aspect that affects your ability to go #2 with regularity and ease is ensuring your body is in that parasympathetic state. We talked about the importance of being in a parasympathetic state when it comes to digestion with holistic health coach Jen Robinson in part II in the series on gut health, where Jen reminds us to slow down, take small bites, and focus on our breathing throughout the day. So what is a parasympathetic state? In short, it’s your nervous system’s ability to rest and relax. In fact, your parasympathetic nervous system is responsible for not just digestion but also sexual arousal, salivation, lacrimation (the production of tears), urination, and today’s special topic: defecation. Fun fact interruption: the sympathetic nervous system drives your fight or flight response in stressful situations. So what helps the parasympathetic system? Mild exercise, meditation, yoga, deep breathing from your diaphragm, or even nature walks can help us achieve this state.  So is anyone else thinking about how much stress you have in your life right now? Like maybe your bathroom habits are being affected by deadlines, juggling your family schedule, high-stakes personal or work projects, family problems, teenage drama, existential crisis, etc? Some of this stuff is just circumstantial and when you’re in the throes of a stressful work project or caring for a loved one dealing with a health crisis, there’s not a lot you can change about that. But you can do more to help your parasympathetic nervous system do its job – even if that’s just learning how to breathe from your diaphragm or getting some fresh air. (Singing, humming, and hugging also show up on the list of helpers.) Speaking of things they don’t teach you in school, I only really learned what deep breathing means a few years ago. And I am a little embarrassed to admit this because I had been doing ‘belly breaths’ in yoga but I somehow did not get the memo that when someone says to take a deep breath you’re not just supposed to suck in a bunch of air and blow it out. It’s a story for another day but I actually was able to use diaphragmatic breathing to reduce and practically eliminate chest pain and tightness that I was dealing with during a period of acute stress. I mean I had my heart checked out and had plans for more tests but this simple breathing technique turned out to be a game changer.  According to Harvard Medical School, here’s how you do diaphragmatic breathing: Lie on your back on a flat surface (or in bed) with your knees bent. You can use a pillow under your head and your knees for support. Place one hand on your upper chest and the other on your belly, just below your rib cage. Breathe in slowly through your nose, letting the air in deeply, towards your lower belly. The hand on your chest should remain still, while the one on your belly should rise. Tighten your abdominal muscles and let them fall inward as you exhale through pursed lips. The hand on your belly should move down to its original position.  You can also do this sitting up with your knees bent and your body relaxed. For best results, try practicing for 5-10 minutes daily.  I love how something as simple as breathing can be a treatment for a lot of wellness issues, especially with stress management. And you may not think of traveling to exciting or sunny places as anxiety-producing or even camping which puts you in nature’s abundance as stressful, and for the most part they’re not. But when it comes to your bathroom habits and the disruption of your routines, your body can get a little out of whack and it’s much harder to get into that parasympathetic state.  So this last section is dedicated to poop hacks, but I believe that promoting a parasympathetic state is probably the ultimate poop hack. For me, it’s been the biggest paradigm shift. This last bit is dedicated to playing both offense and defense when it comes to staying regular on the road or at home.     3 Poop Hacks for Every Body (Plus 2 FAQs)   1 Eat More Plants    Most people struggle to eat enough dietary fiber when they travel, much less in their regular diet. Eating out, having food prepared for you by friends and family, or just having less access to your favorite grocery store when you’re away from home can affect how you eat. Something you can focus on whether you’re at home or traveling to help your poop goals is loading up on fiber-rich foods. These include all vegetables and fruits, especially your leafy greens and certain fruits like figs and berries, whole grains like brown rice and quinoa, all types of legumes like black beans, chickpeas, or pinto beans, and nuts and seeds. Almonds, hazelnuts, and mixed tree nuts are tops in fiber, and seeds like chia, pumpkin, or sunflower pack as much as 10-12g of fiber for two tablespoons. Interesting note: prunes contain only 1g of fiber per prune, so if you’re looking to increase your fiber intake you may want to look beyond this food which has been heavily marketed for its digestive benefits.  There are a ton of great resources related to high-fiber foods. and a quick google search will reveal great lists. And you can also find the Fiber Fueled Cookbook by Dr. Bulsiewicz over in the Naked Library. But when it comes to eating more plants specifically to improve elimination, there are a few foods I’ve personally added into my diet and found remarkable benefits.  Flaxseeds: Over the years, I’ve used many forms of flaxseed from flax oil to ground flax to whole seeds. But one of the best forms I’ve found is in the form of crackers made from just flax. So far, I’ve not had a lot of success making them myself so the brand I like is called Flackers and you can find them in places like Whole Foods or on Amazon. They may also be in your favorite grocery store. They come in a variety of flavors but what makes them different from other whole grain crackers that contain flax is that they’re just flaxseed, apple cider vinegar, and salt. And they contain 9g of fiber for 10 crackers! Have them with some high quality hummus, and you’re looking at about 11g of fiber for a snack.  Chia seeds: Disclaimer: I’m a little obsessed with chia seeds. I first learned about chia seed as a travel tool for regularity from a nutritionist who swore by packing these on all her trips. All you have to do is take 1-2 TBSP and let them sit in a large glass of water for a few minutes, then shake or stir, and drink it all down. Not the most appetizing way to enjoy chia seeds but the idea is to deliver 10g of fiber to your digestive system fast and let it do the work. I really like following Dr. Bulsiewecz, also called @theguthealthMD on instagram, and he recently did a great video about a viral trend called the ‘internal shower’ that apparently everyone is talking about. Okay, maybe not everyone because this term was new to me. But basically the 'internal shower' is the whole chia seed and water drink. In this video, Dr. B affirms that drinking your chia seeds is a great way to increase your dietary fiber, and that it’s been shown to improve bowel movements.  But what’s really gotten me all crazy for cha-cha-chia is making my own chia pudding trifle. I eat this religiously every day for a snack or dessert, and it honestly could not be easier to make. You just soak chia seeds overnight in milk or non-dairy milk and add a little natural sweetener. I use pure maple syrup. It turns into a creamy, slightly sweet pudding that I then layer with plain yogurt sweetened with maple or honey and berries or some other high-fiber fruit. It’s way better than just drinking your chia but not as easy to do when you’re traveling—unless you’re a weirdo like me and bring your own cooler to your father-in-law’s house with a fresh batch of chia pudding for your nighttime ritual. And if you make enough, you can share. Curtis, my father-in-law, gave it a big thumbs up.  Green kiwi: I only recently started hearing about the beneficial effects of eating green kiwi. Kiwi is not only high in fiber with 2 grams in each fruit but it also contains an enzyme called actinidin, which facilitates the breakdown of protein. If you’ve been focusing on eating more protein you definitely want to know about kiwi. Dr B recommends eating 2-3 green kiwi per day. I created my own little experiment a couple of weeks ago that incorporates 2 kiwi a day. I am loving the benefits and think they’ve been contributing to several weeks of digestive bliss. Dr B also recommends kiwi for flatulence and bloating. And by the way, according to Dr B, gas and bloating can be a sign that you’re not fully evacuating when you go so kiwi can help with both regularity and treating any symptoms if you're not going enough.    2 You’ve Got to Move It, Move It    It’s hard enough to get more movement when you’re at home or working throughout the week. I mean I’ve been sitting down for the last 3 hours writing this, knowing that I need to take a break soon and go for a walk. It’s easy to get caught up.  But when we travel, it can be even harder to maintain a workout routine, especially if you’re someone who runs with a friend (me!) or likes group classes (me!). And this all kicks off with the travel itself which can have you sitting for hours at a time. I know hotels have gyms and your parents house probably has a sidewalk walk or some trails but a lot of people struggle with motivation when their travel isn’t built around activities that integrate hiking, walking, or other planned movement. It’s easy to get into vacation mode and plan to catch your workouts on the flipside.  And by the way, there’s nothing wrong with chilling out and taking it easy on vacation. However, when you don’t move enough, and when you eat more rich food or drink more sugary drinks or alcohol, this affects your bowel movements, as exercise has been scientifically proven to help with constipation. Bethany Doerfler, RDN, a gastrointestinal research specialist with the Northwestern Medicine Digestive Health Center in Chicago, says we don’t know exactly how exercise improves bowel movements but there’s clear evidence it does. One theory is that movement works on both a mechanical and chemical level, meaning that the body experiences physical pressure, even twisting of the intestines, in addition to increased blood flow to the intestines during exercise. Also, digestive enzymes and hormones are known to be released during physical activity.  How vigorous should your activity be? While just 30 minutes of light cardio a day has been shown to support gut motility, exercises that twist or jostle the body provide additional benefits. If you’re traveling, light jogging is a great way to get your heart rate up and help move food through your body. It also jostles your organs, which literally moves things along. As long as your goal is better bowel movements vs a new PR on race day, a little running is something to try when you’re troubleshooting constipation.  Core exercises have also been shown to help with regularity. Your core muscles play an important role in gastrointestinal motility. Core contractions in exercises like crunches and plank increase pressure and help your food move through your digestive system.  Yoga has also been shown to provide benefits because it supports both a rest and digest state and includes postures that put pressure on your organs. Some recommended yoga postures include cobra, child’s pose, and supine twist.    3 More Water, Less Wine    Hydration has so many important health benefits and wouldn’t you know that regularity is one of them. When it comes to travel, or let’s face a rough week at work, we may be leaning on other beverages to get us by. Whether that’s sugary coffee drinks, soda, or alcohol, we often drink less water when we’re leaning too hard on these beverages.  Alcohol in particular can have negative effects on gastrointestinal motility. In addition to hurting your overall water intake, it causes gastritis–which disrupts the production of mucus in the intestines and often manifests as diarrhea. It also causes inflammation because the body struggles to process all of the sugar in alcohol. Any type of alcohol can cause bloating but beer is a known culprit.  So if you drink alcohol at home or on vacation, the advice is more than drink in moderation but consider less sugary options and make sure you’re drinking plenty of water. How much? This may vary from person to person and factors like activity level, temperature, even body size play a role in finding the right number. According to the National Academy of Medicine, it's suggested that women should drink about 2.7 liters (or 91 ounces) of fluids every day, while men should aim for around 3.7 liters (or 125 ounces). This includes not just beverages, but also water-rich foods like fruits, veggies, and soups. Since the average ratio of fluids to foods is roughly 80:20, that means women should aim for about 9 cups a day, while men should aim for around 12 and a half cups. You can also find other calculations that recommend drinking a half ounce to one ounce of water per pound. I won’t do the math here, but for me, that’s well beyond 8 cups of water.  Fascinating fact alert: Studies have shown that limited water consumption ages your body faster, increases your risk of developing chronic disease, and may even shorten your lifespan by as much as 15 years. Specifically, one study found that less hydration corresponded with higher levels of serum sodium in mice and observed that higher levels of serum sodium in humans came with a 64% higher risk for developing chronic diseases such as heart failure, stroke, atrial fibrillation, peripheral artery disease, chronic lung disease, diabetes and dementia. For health nerds who struggle to drink enough water (me!), this news got my attention. It also shines a spotlight on the priority for clean, accessible water for people all over the world.    What about fiber supplements?    At some point in your life, you may have taken psyllium husk, Metamucil, or some other fiber supplement. Most health experts agree that it’s better to get your fiber from food than supplements but alas sometimes you need a fiber boost, especially if you’re away from home. The ‘internal shower,’ the chia seed and water concoction we discussed earlier is more of a whole foods approach to a supplement, but if you’re looking for something more portable here are some ideas. Be advised that every person responds differently to fiber supplements and you may have to try a few to find what’s right for you. Best practice is to drink an extra large glass of water with your supplement and start slowly to avoid gas and bloating. As always, talk to your doctor about taking supplements for constipation so that you’re not overlooking another important health concern.    How do you spell fiber? It’s complicated and personal    Arabinoxylan, inulin, methylcellulose, and polycarbophil are just a few fun names for dietary fiber. Stanford researchers looked into the effects of arabinoxylan and inulin. Arabinoxylan is found in psyllium husk and Metamucil and inulin is a common ingredient found in ‘diet’ food. Researchers found while arabinoxylan can reduce bad cholesterol, definitely a bonus, but too much inulin can increase inflammation. Other dietary fiber supplements include methylcellulose - better known as Citrucel - that helps soften and bulk up stool. Polycarbophil is another popular choice that can treat constipation and irregular bowel movements without the discomfort of gas or bloating. Brand names include FiberCon, Fiber Lax, Equalactin, and Mitrolan.    Do you need probiotic supplements? Maybe.   And what about probiotic supplements? The advice to get your good bugs from foods instead of supplements remains the gold standard. Probiotic foods include yogurt, raw and unpasteurized cheeses (like aged cheddar, parmesan, and some Swiss cheeses), sauerkraut, kefir, kimchi, kombucha, and miso. I go into more probiotic and prebiotic foods in the episodes on gut health.  Still health experts recommend probiotics as a treatment or preventative for constipation. There’s a ton of probiotic supplements on the market so you’ll want to do some research here. Some basic guidelines include choosing a probiotic with at least 1 billion colony-forming units that contain Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium, Bacillus or Saccharomyces boulardii. You also want to pay attention to how your probiotic should be stored, since some require refrigeration which won’t work well for traveling unless you opt for the health nerd cooler situation I mentioned earlier. Definitely check with your doctor or naturopath who may have a recommended probiotic for you.    Your Best Poop Life Awaits    I know I’ve hit you with a ton of information. And if you want a breakdown, make sure to check the resources linked here. Information overload will certainly raise your cortisol levels, and since I want you to have the poop life of your dreams please take a few minutes to breathe and listen to some upbeat music (you'll hear my pick in the podcast version of this edition) before jumping back into your day. Maybe nod your head and wiggle around a bit. Because while there’s no scientific research on the specific effects of music and dancing on regularity, I have a hunch that the feel good chemicals that get released and the body jostles that ensue from a dance party make it another one of those helpers. So, relax, take some belly breaths, maybe do a little Roger Rabbit or the snake, and tell your body thank you for how hard it works on your behalf. And rejoice – because poop is life. 

This episode is the second part of an exciting (!) series on gut health. If you missed the first one, go here if you want to learn all the science.  When I set up this interview with holistic health and wellness coach Jen Robinson, I wanted to get the down low on gut health. But what surprised me was how much we needed, like really needed, to talk about other aspects of women's health in order to arrive at the practical gut health wisdom Jen delivers.  Why?  Because health, especially women's health, is complex. Especially when you're talking about what to eat. This is one of my favorite episodes because we really look at the whole picture when it comes to women's health. Jen shares about the turning points in her own life that helped her understand the difference between food as fuel verses food as nourishment, and how she learned that wellness is distinct from the social programming on being fit or slim.  We get into diet culture and the way food restriction negatively affects our bodies, specifically gut diversity. We talk about stress, burnout, and caretaking and the way they can take a toll on your health. Jen also shares what makes health coaching different than doctor visits or therapy appointments and why so many women are finding help in this growing field.  This episode is for you if you... Have ever been on a diet or wondered if there's more to life than restricting food  Struggle with digestion issues and are curious about simple practices that may improve how you feel  Don't really love 'healthy' eating or even vegetables but want to make some changes and are not sure where to start  Love 'healthy eating' and want to up your game when it comes to gut health Looking for a mindset shift when it comes to finding joy in food and in movement  Looking for simple practices to stir into your life when it comes to better digestion and gut health Would like to give your 8th grade self a high five -- we get into adolescence and 8th grade and the surprise mentors that sometimes show up.  There's a lot to this episode, and like the "universe" in the title, there are worlds inside of some of the many questions we cover.  Go here to listen or find Naked Librarian on Audible, Spotify, or Google Podcasts. 

This edition of the Naked News is all about understanding the latest science on gut health and how it affects far more than your digestion. I'm publishing "Three Pound Universe: How Gut Health Influences Everything, Everywhere, All the Time" in two parts because I know most people, including myself, toss around words like gut health and microbiome as if it’s about yogurt and taking probiotics, but good Lord, gut health is more than encyclopedic it's extremely important. So, in part I, I'm going to… Dive into a basic understanding of your gut, including the billions of good bacteria that reside in your body and go by superhero-like names Learn about something called dysbiosis, or gut imbalance, and the types of diseases associated with dysbiosis. Spoiler: While the good bacteria go by Latin names that are tough to pronounce, you’ve definitely heard of these chronic illnesses and terminal diseases  Look closely at what scientists call the gut-brain connection and what it’s teaching us about mental health conditions like anxiety and depression   Then, we’re going to take a little detour to learn about fecal transplants and why modern medicine is like ‘shut up!’ and ‘no way!’ about the possible ways this treatment could help and heal certain chronic diseases We'll wrap up with some amazing probiotic foods and how adding these into your diet can change your whole world.  If you'd like to read this episode or follow up with any of the resources mentioned go here. 

This episode goes deep on how to like what you wear...on a regular basis. The whole thing kicks off with a fashion inspiration story from my childhood, when getting dressed was two parts self-expression and one part rebellion. Then, we'll all do a reality check about how much harder it is to like our clothes as grown ups when we're frustrated with our bodies...because when you're talking about dressing for joy body satisfaction matters. After we norm on the imperative of loving our beautiful bodies, we'll high kick into some fun fashion vocabulary, including some handy dopamine dressing tips. The whole thing wraps up with an interview with personal stylist that you do not want to miss. Daron Deonier helps women learn to do more than dress their bodies—she helps women do what she calls 'honor your vessel.' She's got some mind blowing paradigm shifts, fashion philosophy, and because I know you want this, wardrobe hacks that you can apply not just today but year round. So, hey good lookin,' come on in.

For the last month, I've been traveling in the land of neat and tidy folks and there's some stuff you ought to know.  In this edition of the Naked News, I take a cold hard look at the social expectations around all things ordered and organized, especially for women.  I also take a deep look inside myself, as I am want to do, in order to understand why oh why tidiness has challenged me most of my life.  Find out what neuroscience, psychology, sociology, systems experts (including my personal systems guy Kyle), and tidy influencers, like Marie Kondo, have to say about the habits, health benefits, and hang ups of a neat and orderly environment.  And you can find all the links for further learning in the article version.  P.S. Remember to check out our store at nakedlibrary.com/nakedlibrary to order from any of the authors featured on the Naked News. 

This episode picks up where Part 1 of Peanut Butter Revelation left off. Inside you'll learn a life changing habit from best selling author and motivation expert Mel Robbins and about how radical self-acceptance works from renowned spiritual teacher and psychologist Tara Brach. You'll also get an original, creative activity and learn a helpful thought override from me, Victoria, and how you can apply these in your own life. I can't wait for you to hear what's cooking inside this episode! If you're not signed up for the Naked News, make sure to go to www.nakedlibrarian.com to join our girl gang. Every time I release a new episode, you'll be the first to know! And if you like what you hear, help us get the word out by sharing a takeaway and this episode on social. Thank you! 

If you're like the women I know, you do a lot for everyone around you from your kids to your partner to your co-worker, friends, dog, goldfish, wild birds, etc.  But who's taking care of you?  This episode includes the peanut butter moment that changed my life. In Part 1 of Peanut Butter Revelation, you learn what sociologists, psychologists, and spiritual teachers have to say about the origins of self-sacrificing behavior...and how it affects, and limits, your personal development. You'll also hear some real stories from women like you and me. Make sure to listen to the next episode, Part 2, so you get the life changing habits, activities, and discoveries to help you love, accept, claim, and celebrate your self!  And if you like what you hear today, make sure to #1 sign up for the Naked News at www.nakedlibrarian.com & share this episode with a takeway with your social circle online. As the new girl on the scene, I need your support to help reach all the ladies who want to gal pal and to grow.  Thank you for listening!

The Dog Ate My Compass: 7 Life Hacks for Getting Unstuck & Finding Home What's the difference between feeling stuck and lost? Whether you're looking to break free or find meaningful direction, this conversation explores what to do when you don't know what to do. You'll learn practical strategies and interventions from best selling authors like Brené Brown and Daniel Siegel, along with lessons about from both my therapist and my grandmother, Bobo. Coincidence? Probably not. This episode also includes a deeply personal story that I never thought I'd tell. Along the way, it became central to creating this work and felt my painstaking inspiration just might help you too.