Flanigan's Eco-Logic

Laura Deehan has been the State Director for Environment California since 2021 and part of the public interest network since 2021. Ted asks her right up front: What is the state of California's environment? Laura starts with her love of California, the beauty of the state, its wonderful coastline, mountains, deserts, and great valleys. Having grown up in Scotland, she marvels at the weather and our wonderfully diverse environment. But she makes clear that there are serious issues to address: We still have some of the worst air quality in country. We are still battling water pollution issues. We are facing big impacts of climate change...  heat waves, droughts, flooding, wildfires, and more havoc. That said, she notes that California is a leader in solving problems. The public is engaged and aware. There is lot of support for solutions... things like investing in clean energy and electric vehicles. She underscores her strong conviction that California is a leading state, at the vanguard of tackling big environmental problems.The conversation then focuses on Environment California's advocacy of coastal protection. She's just led a delegation in Sacramento celebrating the 21st Ocean Day, where surfers, divers, community activists and others, "brought the ocean" to the State's capitol! The delegation of lobbyists was also celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Coastal Act of 1976. She noted that, "it stopped crazy development ideas along the coast"... from numerous nuclear plants, lots more oil and gas drilling, and rampant development shoreline hotels. Thanks to the Act, and the will of the people, instead we have public access of our beaches and no private ownership of beaches and our precious coastline.Also part of the agenda for Ocean Day's lobbying was standing up against new Trump administration proposals for expanding offshore oil drilling, albeit wildly unpopular in California. State legislative actions are strategically being developed to restrict bringing any new drilling's oil onshore. On a positive note, her coalition is supporting expansion of Marine Protected Areas (MPAs). Just like parks, MPAs have basic rules: Enjoy but don't take. MPAs were established by the Marine Life Protection Act of 1999 and there are now 124 MPAs off the California coast. They were created as an interconnected network to preserve and restore marine ecosystems. Laura stresses that there is so much more to be done given the threats facing ocean life. There has been a loss of 90% of large fish globally to due overfishing and the impacts of marine heat waves. In the last decade, California has lost almost 90% of its kelp forest habitat... with cascading impacts. Laura points out that kelp forests absorb 20 times more carbon dioxide than terrestrial forests.The conversation then digs into offshore wind. Environment California has been pushing for 100% renewable power in the State. Laura explains that when sun sets, utilities have typically fired up gas plants to meet consumer demand as solar power drops off. But that's exactly when the winds pick up, especially 25 miles offshore. California has an enviable offshore wind resource. Offshore wind alone could meet all of the State's energy needs. Environment California is part of coalition called Offshore Wind Now which passed AB 525, a bill that helped set goals for offshore wind deployment... 25 GW by 2045. The Coalition supports lease sales and investments in port upgrades to bring this power ashore. Ted asks who is opposing offshore wind and Laura makes clear that oil interests are working to discourage offshore wind. The fossil fuel interests are actively undermining support in communities, bolstered by President Trump's dislike of wind. In fact, just last week, Laura laments that Golden State Wind took the buyout option that Trump offered to abandon its offshore wind lease. Taxpayer money is being used to reverse progress. In fact, the wind developers who take the buyouts have promised to spend same amount of money in fossil development. But Laura remains optimistic: Fully 80% of Californians want offshore wind. There is lots of enthusiasm for this clean energy resource.At the end of discussion, and in response to Ted's question on how Environment California prioritizes its advocacy and community organizing, Laura focuses on the things that we all agree on: She finds it interesting that even in such a polarized moment, we all want clean air, we want water that is safe to drink, and we want livable communities for our children. So Environment California is particularly focused on areas that have widespread support, as well as areas where it can activate Californians to effectively take a stand and to engage the will of the people who choose to make the Golden State their home.

This episode is about repurposing retired offshore oil rigs into reefs, maintaining highly enriched ecosystems for fisheries and marine life. Instead of removing offshore oil rigs when their oil is exhausted, this episode focuses on how they are being repurposed for multiple benefits. Blue Latitude co-founders, Amber Sparks and Emily Hazelwood, join Ted in describing their 10+ year endeavor doing just this... how their company was formed and what it does to take the concept of rigs to reefs and to turn it into a win-win reality.In graduate school at the Scripps Institution for Oceanography in La Jolla, California, Amber and Emily were scuba diving off oil rigs in the Santa Barbara Channel and witnessed remarkable sights... abundant sea life clinging on to the oil rigs supporting scaffolds. The operating rigs were creating vibrant marine ecosystems, starting with invertebrates like barnacles and sea anemones... then scallops and more, providing nurseries for schools of fish. The rigs' subsea infrastructure preserves and produces marine life, provides refuge, and has even proven to support biodiversity and reverse extinction, notably of sea stars in California. After presenting their thesis research at a conference, they were approached by an oil company that was keen on exploring the rigs to reefs option for defunct undersea infrastructures. While oil companies are responsible for removing their rigs, and returning their leased sites to their pre-existing conditions, Amber and Emily explain that their research on the undersea life revealed an alternative approach... something they now describe as "reefing." This is taking advantage of massive subsea infrastructures, scaffoldings of beams and cross-bars, that provide habitat for marine life. At the end of the rigs' oil extraction, why not maintain these new-found ecological zones below an 80-foot draft for safe passage of ships, and remove the "topsides?" Supporting this approach is exactly what Blue Latitudes does, starting in California where there are 27 offshore oil rigs, their work is now spreading around the world. Blue Latitudes studies fisheries in high-tech ways, for instance it used underwater remote operating vehicles (ROVs) that plunge to depths way beyond the reach of scuba to measure sea life and to take samples, as well as hydroacoustics to measure marine life. They raise awareness and advocate for rigs to reefs. So far, they have worked in coastal waters off the United States, Africa, South America, and Malaysia. They provide decommissioning studies, paying attention to eliminating spills prior to capping and sealing wells. The common theme of their work is applying scientific research to develop custom solutions to address complex problems at the nexus of industry and our oceans.Emily notes that there are ~1,400 rigs in the U.S. coastal waters, and some 5,000 - 7,000 rigs worldwide, all of which will reach the end of their useful lives. This is Blue Latitudes' "market." The company -- and its foundation -- has lots of work to do as these rigs -- which can be steel structures in as much as 800 feet of water -- can be repurposed for mutual benefit: The oil companies save money -- even after providing cash to local rigs to reef programs -- and the marine environment is enriched providing great benefit to local fishing industries.The conversation ends with Blue Latitudes' most recent project, a broad study of alternative uses for offshore oil rigs.. specifically their "topsides." They are exploring green hydrogen production, harvesting critical minerals from seawater, aquaculture, and establishing a network of monitoring stations for ocean data. As the world shifts from hydrocarbon extraction... finding clever solutions, like rigs to reefs, is a "silver lining" to industry and fundamental to the the Blue Latitude mission and contribution.

Rei Vardi is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Eon, a car rental company that is "building a mobility platform."  Rei explains the genesis of his business and what can now be seen as an exciting, disruptive business model: He was a college student in Boston. When his father planned to turn in the family Tesla, Rei was determined to keep it and pledged to make the payments. To do so, he rented the car to family and friends, and recalls some really bad arrangements, including a bank robbery. But his experiences sparked a novel concept... enabling EV car owners a new means of income. Since most cars sit idle 95% of the time, why not rent them out?The discussion then focuses on how he de-risked the concept. Instead of an owner -- "an amateur in the car rental space" -- taking on the challenges of rentals to strangers, why not have a platform to manage a network and to remove the risk and hassle for car owners? For renters, why not create a new car rental model that makes renting easy, really easy? Forget rental locations and lines and consumer frustration. Eon boasts that its network now is the easiest way to rent a car. The company only rents privately-owned electric vehicles, primarily Teslas, Rivians, and Lucids. There are no keys involved at all. More and more, its business partners -- the car owners -- are developing fleets of EVs for program participation that they post on the company's website. Then renters get instructions on how to access the vehicles and use their phones to unlock and turn on the cars. Renters can even pre-warm or pre-cool the cars. They get explicit instructions on where and how to charge the vehicles too.Owners put their cars on the platform and specify the terms they want... like car pick-up and drop-off location, the daily price, etc.  Eon screens renters to assure a positive experience for the owners, and similarly stipulates a set of terms for owners... like vehicle cleanliness. Now, after eight years developing and scaling the model, Rei and his colleagues have over 3,000 cars in their network, with business activity in 50 cities across the nation. And the business model is popular, Rei notes that 45% of his renters are return renters. Check it out at Eonrides.com.

Sam Teicher is the Co-Founder and Chief Reef Official for Coral Vita, a company he and a graduate school colleague formed in 2015 given their great concerns with coral reef decline. Sam makes clear that fully half of all coral reefs have been killed, and 90% are expected to perish by 2050 without concerted global interventions. Sam and his colleague, Gator Halpern, decided to take action and to build a business case for scaling coral reef restoration efforts. Yale provided the initial $1,000 for them to develop a business plan.The conversation begins with a clear definition of coral: They are living organisms with exoskeletons of carbonaceous material. The coral form colonies that grow and grow, notable in size... like the 2,300 kilometer long Great Barrier Reef in Australia. Remarkably, reefs that cover 1% of the ocean floor provide for 25% of all marine life. The reefs provide habitat and thus food for fisheries. The reefs also play an important role in protecting beaches. Sam explains that there are about 6,000 types of coral, mostly located in tropical waters between the 30th latitude north and the 30th latitude south. To thrive, corals need suitable temperatures, plus appropriate salinity and light. The death of corals is attributable to several factors, but primary among them is climate change which has driven up water temperatures. Pollution and sedimentation also harm reefs, as does some forms of fishing and development.Sam recounts the genesis of Coral Vita, how he and Gator drew upon extensive research and development of restoration techniques. Then they developed a business plan that aligned the interests of myriad stakeholders in reef restoration and ecological regeneration. They began their operations in The Bahamas where resorts and other industries have had to displace reefs. Coral Vita has been effective in relocating these wildlife assets to comply with regulations and to support the local economy and tourism. Soon thereafter they were awarded a prize from Prince William and his Earth Shot Prize. In fact, William and Kate came to The Bahamas to witness Cora Vita's operations. Sam and Gator were also recognized by Forbes Magazine for their entrepreneurship. And the business has grown, now including operations in countries including The Bahamas, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and the United States. The firm now employs 40 staff.Sam described the process of growing coral in aquacultures which dramatically shortens the growth periods of coral. At what he calls "the coral factory," Coral Vita is intently studying corals to determine which grow fastest and which are most resilient to changes in water temperatures. Today, Coral Vita licenses some of its inventions and software to other organizations with the same mission of protecting corals and the fragile ecosystems that they develop. Fully one billion people rely on reefs in one way or another.Ted asks Sam at the end about optimism. Sam makes clear that he is pragmatic and that unfortunately, things will get worse. He notes that it may be generations from now that realize the benefits of today's work to reverse the course of coral reef destruction... until reefs survive and thrive. He notes that clearly the best thing would be for our global society to stop killing the reefs, much like ending deforestation. Until then raising awareness about the importance of corals is key, so is coral reef restoration. To get involved check out https://coralvita.co.

Hugh Broadhurst is the Chief Operating Officer for Aclara Resources, a company focused on sustainable mining of rare earth minerals, followed by the separation of ionic clays laced with rare earth minerals, and selling these to a host of users, notably electric vehicle makers and others in need of high intensity magnets. Applications for the 17 rare earth elements include electric vehicles, wind turbines, submarines, drones, and robotics... anywhere that electric motors are used.The conversation begins with a primer on rare earth minerals -- of which there are 160 -- and rare earth elements which number 17. These have been largely sourced from China which currently mines 90% of rare earth minerals and processes over 99% of them, importing minerals from Myanmar and other countries to do so. Aclara is not only developing an alternate supply chain for rare earths, but as Hugh explains, is doing so in a sustainable manner, in line with consumers' expectations. Hugh joined the podcast from Brazil where Aclara is developing a rare earth mining operation, tapping into ionized clays that can be surface mined, stripped of their valuable elements, before the clays are redeposited on the sites without harmful pollution and disruptive effects. Aclara, a Canadian company, is working in Brazil and Chile on mining operations, while collaborating with Virginia Tech on a separation technique. At the tail end of the company's vertical integration, Aclara is selling refined rare earth element powders, metals, and alloys to manufacturers.Hugh begins by presenting the value of rare earth mineral for electric vehicles. Their motors depend on high intensity magnets to support their dramatic acceleration. Many magnets lose their magnetism when their temperatures exceed 100 degrees Celsius and EV motors reach temperatures of 150 degrees Celsius (300 degrees Fahrenheit) and thus need special rare earth elements to maintain their magnetism. Two of the 17 rare earth elements are critical for this function: terbium and dysprosium. They are blended into the magnets' formulation at a rate of 2 - 3%. While the cost of these materials for a typical EV is less than $50, Hugh notes that without them, the EV would not function. Hugh was born and raised in South Africa. His parents were academics and he jokes that his engineering is a genetic disorder he got from his parents, his father an electrical engineer and mother a mathematician. After studying in South Africa, he came to America for graduate school in chemical engineering, before focusing his career on specialty minerals, for semiconductors, for agriculture, lithium for batteries, and at Aclara for magnets. Rare earths enable the renewable energy revolution he explains. At Aclara, he and his colleagues are proud of doing the right thing in their mining and manufacturers, to meet environmental and ESG standards that people have come to expect. "It's not just what were doing but how we do it."

Matt Harper is the President of Invinity Energy Systems, the maker of vanadium-flow batteries. Matt was on the podcast in 2022 and now provides an update. A strong alternative to lithium-ion batteries, the benefits of flow batteries produced by Invinity are numerous: "Unlimited cycling" (30-year lifetimes with 20,000+ cycles); they can discharge 8 - 10 hours every day; they have zero fire risk; and Invinity units are modular and stackable. Furthermore, vanadium is the 13th most common metallic element in the Earth's crust. There is more vanadium than copper or nickel, and Matt notes that it is found everywhere. The end result is that Invinity's flow batteries have the lowest lifecycle MWh delivered cost for energy storage.Invinity now has 190 MWh of installed systems and in construction all over the world. Matt details 96 installations in 17 countries, including Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, and Hungary. In fact, right after the podcast recording, Matt is flying off to India, a country that is in great need for clean energy resources... and long duration energy storage will play a pivotal role there. Ted asks about Hungary why Matt has called it a "hotbed" for flow batteries. Matt describes the country's impressive view of grid infrastructure and how the government stepped in there to stabilize and optimize its power grid. Matt also describes Invinity's work in Australia, home to one of Invinity's largest projects. He also provided an update on an intriguing Scottish project where Invinity batteries are buffering between tidal power and electrolyzing hydrogen 24*7, a project where tidal power is harvesting the ebb and flow of the tides. Matt calls this a "punishing duty cycle," well suited to flow batteries.The conversations shifts to the United States where Invinity is currently starting 3 - 4 projects that rely on long-term storage. The batteries are supported by the California Energy Commission. Invinity provides products for grid-scale storage and directly to the commercial and industrial sector for behind the meter installations. Flow batteries are a nice fit for microgids and energy resilience... with projects at Harrah's Casino and at Pacific Northwest Labs. Another project that Matt describes is at a casino and resort outside of San Diego. There, tribal ownership seeks to achieve full energy sovereignty for its large load including one of the world/'s largest EV charging stations. This creates "an incredibly challenging duty cycle," again, quite perfect for flow batteries. Invinity is exploring expanding manufacturing in the U.S. to meet Production Tax Credits that accrue to manufacturers of energy storage, as well as tax credits for end-users when domestic content is higher. Matt notes that there are good sources of vanadium in the United States. And due to new regulations limiting emissions in maritime shipping, Invinity is exploring the use of waste stockpiles caused by stripping sulfur out of crude oil, laced with vanadium and other metals, potentially a new and attractive source of vanadium without additional mining and extraction.Matt and Ted conclude with a discussion of Invinity's future role. The next step is greater scale. Matt also points out that the utility grid policy conversation has moved from "net zero" to "zero zero," a time where there will be no offsets... only clean power stored and discharged to meet onsite consumption patterns or grid capacity and reliability. Clearly Invinity's role in this vision and transition is important and on the rise.

Chéri Smith heads up the Alliance for Tribal Clean Energy. She'd been on the podcast in 2022 explaining the Alliance's operation then. She and Ted discuss the change in presidential administrations and its affect on tribes. While the Alliance is 100% supported by philanthropies, purposefully exempt from the volatility of changing administrations, the tribes that the Alliance supports were heavily impacted, with hundreds of millions lost and projects stranded, retarding the development of clean energy on reservations. Since her last Eco-Logic episode, Chéri had a whole department writing grants and structuring projects. In 2024 that team wrote $800 million worth of applications for clean energy. Fully $490 million was awarded to 49 tribes. "But within four days after the inauguration.. money clawed out bank accounts, literally clawed out." She explains that there were no letters, only a "giant sucking sound." Programs were abruptly cancelled such as EPA's Solar for All program that was helping tribes put modest solar systems on homes, in cases providing power for the first time. Tax credits that provided up to 70% of the cost of solar installations, were eliminated.There are 575 recognized tribes in America and another 100+ that are not recognized. Fully 229 tribes are Alaskan native villages. Chéri is of My'kyma descent, a tribe from Northern Maine and the Canadian Maritimes. She makes clear how profound the political changes have been to the tribes. They had begun to develop projects spurred by government funds and backed by third-party finance despite tribes generally being "allergic to debt." The cancellation of many projects, and the loss of tax credits and other support programs, has eroded trust that had been building... the trust necessary to develop large-scale projects that can boost economic development on tribal lands. Chéri explains the impact to the Hopi after the closure of the coal-fired Navajo Generating Station. It had provided lease fees to the Hopi, creating a huge hole of lost revenues and lost jobs. A billion-dollar, utility-scale, 400 MW solar project to serve wholesale markets, was going to fill this gap and provide a pathway to prosperity going forward.The conversation shifts to how the Alliance has adapted. The Alliance created the Indigenous Power and Light Fund in 2024 with a $100 million goal. So far it has raised $38 million from three primary philanthropists, money that is now being used for grants and loans to spur renewable energy projects, providing just-in-time capital, filling funding gaps, forming capital stacks where private markets won't. The Alliance is prioritizing clean energy projects that provide energy access, build climate resilience, lessen reliance on fossil fuels, and provide resources for climate and fire disasters.Drawing inspiration from the tribes it serves, Chéri reports that the Alliance has grown despite discouraging federal policies. In the past two years, the Alliance staff has nearly tripled and the Alliance has added highly experienced professionals to its team and capabilities to better serve ~180 tribes. The Alliance has also formed the Tribal Energy Leadership Fellowship... an initiative to train tribal leaders in partnership with Haskell Indian Nations University, Harvard, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Ben Lochtenberg came to solar for good reason: He sees solar as an elegant energy solution, one that will keep on giving for years. His mission as the Founder and Managing Director of Xero Solar is to tap solar as a "perpetual" energy source and to promote a transition to a more resilient world. Xero is working to create a brighter future for all, through residential solar services as well as programs for underserved youth, neurodiverse children, as well as faith-based and spiritual communities.Born in Australia, Ben spent his youth in England before his family migrated to America. His career led him to specialize in material science -- physics and chemistry -- working for big corporations on electronics, semiconductors, printed circuit boards, and solar cell fabrication. At the age of 48 he decided to form his own business. Undaunted by statistics that show that nine out of ten startups fail, Ben dug into solar, determined to succeed. He's still paranoid, and sites an author who wrote that "only the paranoid survive." The key is to always be on the look-out for what can go wrong and to plan for it.Ted asks Ben about "the solar-coaster"... a term that Ben dismisses strongly: "I hate that term. It suggests that one has no control." Ted digs in given the recent and major blow to residential installations: "What about the loss of the residential investment tax credit?" Ben points to two factors: Fifteen years ago, when he started Xero, it cost twice as much to install as it does today, and that value in avoided utility costs then was half or less than it is today. His view is clear that we don't need tax credits, that solar is still a good deal without tax credits and utility incentives.Ben discusses his business philosophy and operations. He believes in fair prices for suppliers, employees, and for customers. Too often customers are focused on the first cost of solar, rather than its long-term savings. Ben notes that choosing the lowest cost solar company may be the most expensive decision one ever makes. Charging a fair price gives Xero the ability to provide strong levels of customer service and support for the lifetime of the systems installed. Xero spends little on marketing its services. The best advocates are customers pleased with the services they receive, says Ben.Ben wants Xero to have a potent impact... "to help people we touch." This starts with employees. His staff are grateful of his priorities... nurturing marriages, strong families, celebrating babies and home-buying. Leading his staff, Ben volunteers and teaches them about the fulfillment attained by giving. His mother taught him that this world is made up of takers and givers. The takers will never be satisfied, they always want more. "Those that give are blessed with so much more... givers have full hearts." The conversation includes a discussion of the future integration of our cars with our homes. Ben has been tracking VGI, vehicle grid integration, for years. "It's a great idea as our cars sit idle 95% of the time." While not sure of its timing -- "it seems like it's been the technology of tomorrow for a long time" -- his passion for efficient utilization of resources - in this case batteries -- causes him to be excited about VGI, flattening utility load profiles and the duck curve, and optimizing the grid to drive down power costs for us all.  Xero is future proofing its solar projects for the VGI future.

According to David Kilzer, the fusion of artificial intelligence (AI) and robotics is the biggest leap for mankind since fire! David has seen dramatic evolution in automation in his 50-year career... influenced by the rise of personal computers, the internet, smart phones, and now AI. He believes that AI-power humanoid robots are a huge game changer, and one that will increase the quality of life for us all. Imagine waking in the morning and having your coffee made to perfectly suit your taste. Imagine a humanoid robot playing chess with grandpa, or teaching the kids algebra, or folding the laundry or mowing the lawn or blending margaritas! The applications for robots are widespread... from household functions to nursing homes to factories, schools, medicine, and more. They can deliver vaccines in quarantine zones... and can readily access all the world's information. David highlights the future of open-sourced robots... whereby a robot in Japan learns to make sushi rolls, and this skill is uploaded to the cloud and then available for robots on the same platform worldwide. We may all have robots serving us, loaded up with apps for various tasks!David's company, Strategic Transformation Advisors helps industries tap the great potentials for automation. He is currently working on a major facility in Oregon, where three kinds of robots will be at work... none requiring any space conditioning at all. Robots can work 24*7; they need no breaks or benefits. They are tireless and can do heavy lifting, and can boost productivity, proficiency, and safety. And as more and more automation is developed, costs will fall... only begetting more automation with greater functionality.There will be adjustments in the transition toward greater and greater automation. Job losses are top of mind, notes David. Goldman Sachs reports that 6 - 7% of the American workforce has already been displaced by AI. Amazon laid off 14,000 workers last year and expects to lay off 30,000 by the end of this year. The implications for jobs are huge... with automation replacing not just manual tasks... but all manner of technical services such as coding, paralegal reviews, and engineering. The conversation shifts into income tax losses as workers are replaced with machines. David imagines that mechanisms will be needed to address this loss. Should AI be taxed? Should robot leases be taxed? While David offers no solutions, he suggests that clever new means of developing revenues to support government functions may well be needed. He points to Norway's sovereign wealth fund that provides public benefit from oil and gas resources as a model mechanism. How can the abundance that will be created by AI and humanoid robotics be shared for the benefit of all?The conversation ends with David's bold predictions: AI-power robotics will be prevalent in industry this decade, and will likely be ubiquitous in homes in the 2030s. The pace of automation, and highly intelligent automation, is nothing short of fantastic.

Ebenezar Wikina lives in Rivers State, Nigeria. His father's love of books and magazines coupled with his early career in journalism are the roots of his thirst for learning and his dedication to reform government policies. His passion is taking national, long-term goals and bringing them to success in local governments... the six Nigerian states and their subregions. This, he believes, is where change takes root. He formed Policy Shapers to empower young people with knowledge, skills, and tools to engage in public policy.River States is one of six states in Nigeria. Formed by the Niger River delta, "it is warm there, like Florida," explains Ebenezar. The 11,100-square mile state is home to nine million people. Less than 40% have access to electricity. Right now, given major national grid problems, less than 20% of the population has power and their are routine power disruptions to hospitals, hotels, and the entire community. Many schools have no power at all. Ebenezar explains how he formed Policy Shapers and how he coalesced and facilitated diverse interest groups. Led by youth, Policy Shapers is inclusive of all ages, of women, and sensitive to the needs of people with disabilities. Participants and topical experts were brought together with WhatsApp, Zoom, and other social media platforms. They raised awareness and have used "hack-a-thons" to delve deeply into specific issues. Ebenezar and his colleagues brought thousands of voices together, surveying them on the most pressing problems facing the state and nation and the African continent. They suggested solutions. Together they began to craft River States' long-term sustainability plan... called Rivers 2050 Vision.In the discussion, Ebenezar focuses on five factors that will profoundly affect River States' future. The first is energy and the need to make power ubiquitous and to transform the hydrocarbon energy to renewables. The region has rich oil and gas reserves, that are sold off and that have polluted rivers there to the point where people cannot fish. Rivers State is rich in wind coming off the Atlantic Ocean, hydropower, and solar. Tapping into these resources and making structural changes, like not taxing solar panels, will help to spur this transition.Second is global climate change, that he reports is quite well known given the internet and widespread use of cell phones. Its impacts are certainly being felt in River States... events such as extreme heat waves and flooding. What can his generation do to shift from hydrocarbons to renewables? Can they promote agriculture and the development of renewables to shore up the economy as oil and gas revenues recede?Third is population, expected to rise 400,000 people per year. Ebenezar notes that River States is a religious community but that family planning is important there. To accommodate increased population and the fourth major planning element -- sea level rise -- River States needs housing. Policy Shapers promotes creative architectural solutions such as getting back to building on water using floating homes and businesses, now using more advanced building materials and sanitation. The fifth factor that Ebenezar highlights is AI and the workforce that kids like his own son will have to adapt to when they reach the workforce. Ebenezar notes the pace of AI's penetration and how many jobs have already been lost, and how many more will be lost in the planning timeframe. Clearly, Rivers State will have to adapt. He makes strong statements about teaching youth critical thinking, creativity, and emotional intelligence. For schools, he suggests that there is a need for new curriculum, based on what AI can do and what it cannot do.

Ben Airth is the Policy Director for Freedom Forever, the largest residential solar company in the country. Freedom Forever installs solar systems in 30 states plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. For Freedom Forever's management, Ben tracks state regulations, state legislation, and federal policies to guide program development and sales.The conversation begins with a discussion of the fall-off of the Internal Revenue Service 25D investment tax credit for solar... an issue for residential solar companies nationwide. Ben makes the case that there are solutions such as prepaid leases that allow for commercial ownership of solar systems on homes, and that the commercial tax credit is still in place. To get this 48E tax credit, the issue is ownership. Commercially owned systems can be on residential or commercial properties. In fact, given the bonus credits possible for commercial installations, homeowners might even see a better than 30% value through this pathway.Ted brings the discussion back to California and to Net Billing, California's regulatory policy. While a blow to the solar industry in California, Ben suggests that it may well be a good thing in the long run as it has caused consumers to add batteries to their systems. This allows consumers to self-consume solar power and to realize each solar kilowatt-hour's retail energy cost value.Ted asks about which states provide the most value to homeowners interested in solar: Ben notes that California is the top of the list given its high power prices. The Illinois Shines program has an enhanced value stack for solar, providing homeowners there with the upfront value of Renewable Energy Credits that solar will generate. Maine is a small market but one with attractive consumer economics. Puerto Rico is also a leader for residential solar and storage given hurricanes and the great value of resilience for homeowners there. Texas's deregulated electricity market allows for virtual power plants, another revenue stream and effective means of amortizing the upfront cost of solar. Texas has also enabled third-party permitting and inspections, addressing these bottlenecks in residential installations and shortening installation times.Ted then asks about the 20 states that Freedom Forever does not serve: In some cases, Ben explains that these are nascent markets that have prematurely adopted California's net billing as a precedent, well before any form of solar saturation and without adequately priming the solar market. States such as Idaho assigned fixed fees that destroyed the economics of consumer-owned solar.Building on the discussion of virtual power plants and their promise for the future, the discussion shifts to the potential for vehicle-to-grid programs and the integration of e-mobility with our electric utilities. Ben notes that this, like solar and storage, has been inhibited by the One Big Beautiful Bill, but is still promising. He states the need for effective rates and tariffs to make these strategies viable for utilities as well as consumers.The conversation ends with a discussion of what utilities call "the cost shift" related to distributed generation, and in this case residential solar. Ben discusses the unusually large amount of consumer investments in solar, a public resource that has helped to build the utility infrastructure. While the utility position is this has hurt other consumers with no solar, Ben calls it a mind set. The problem is not technical -- which can be overcome -- but instead a mind set that overlooks the great value of consumer investments that utilities do not have to make. The key is to find win-win solutions that benefit both consumers and utilities charged with providing reliable and affordable power.

Dr. Bonnie Nixon is the Sustainability Director for the Long Beach Container Terminal (LBCT), one of the world's busiest and greenest ports. The terminal handles 3.5 million, 20-foot containers annually. Its 4,200 foot long wharf can unload three of the largest container ships in the world at once.Air quality is an issue that drives Bonnie. She grew up in an industrial community in Northern New Jersey and knows painfully well the devastating impacts of bad air on human health. The San Pedro port complex receives 40% of all goods entering the United States. Bonnie explains that ports have five major sources of emissions: ships, short and long-haul drayage trucks, cargo-handling equipment, locomotives, and tugs. The result is that the communities surrounding LBCT have suffered from some of the worst air quality in the country. LBCT has addressed this head on. When ships come to its wharf, they receive shore power and turn off their engines which run with dirty bunker fuel. The Port's 93 cranes work without emissions as do the 102 automated electric transport vehicles that are guided by sensors embedded in the concrete that move containers on site. The Port is home to the largest battery exchange buildings in the world that automatically exchange batteries in 5 - 8 minutes.In 2030 Bonnie completed a net zero strategy for LBCT with a $250 million price tag. So far, she has raised $130 million of this to drive down Scope 1 (onsite combustion) and Scope 2 (purchased electricity) emissions. The Port has reduced Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 85 - 90%. Thanks to monetizing Low Carbon Fuel Standard credits, LBCT has been able to purchase offsets for Scope 3 emissions related to ships, trucks, and trains run by its vendors. Bonnie is now working to clean up the Port's 270 rolling stock vehicles -- tractors, forklifts, trucks, buses, sweepers, etc. She is working with shipping lines to promote e-methanol to power the ships that come to and from Long Beach to achieve net zero status at the Port in time for the Los Angeles Olympics. She is also focused on resiliency strategies. Her quest is to demonstrate that even massive industrial complexes like LBCT can fully decarbonize their operations.

After growing up in England and Egypt, and a 25-year stint in Australia, Nigel Mason moved to Bali, Indonesia. There he met his wife, they ran a restaurant and a rafting company, and became highly concerned about the plight and extinction of Sumatran Elephants. Visiting Sumatra, seeing the gross attack on its forests, the dire consequences of deforestation for palm oil that displaced elephants, orangutans, tigers, monkeys, and rhinos, Nigel and his wife decided to take action. Over three trips and a seven-year period, they rescued 27 elephants and created an elephant park in Taro, Bali.Ted asks Nigel about moving the herd to Bali, a 1,700-kilometer voyage over land and sea. Nigel explains that yes, it was very challenging, particularly getting enough food and water to sustain the elephants for the five-day trip. Elephants consumer 250 kilos of food a day... plus lots of water, the latter made hugely challenging during one trip during an intense drought in Java. But the transport was successful, and the elephants that would have lived only 3 - 7 years in captivity in Sumatra, now had a special park in Bali with all the food and drink and care that they needed to live for 50 - 60 years. Today there are less than 1,000 Sumatran Elephants in the wild.Nigel describes the care that his herd of elephants get. Elephants tend to succumb to death in many cases due to problems with their feet. Nigel devised a special material for the paths that they walk that is cooler than concrete yet with enough grit to properly scale back the elephants' nails and to maintain the health of their feet. Each elephant has a "mahout," a "carer," who looks after the elephant from morning to night... bathing it, feeding it, and giving it the interaction with which they thrive. Since opening the park in 1997, six babies have been born and raised there too. The park is proud of having met the strict, 200+ standards of the Asian Captive Elephants Standards, being certified for over ten years.Despite Nigel's good rescue deed, for the past few months the park has been embroiled in a major controversy with animal rights groups that claimed that elephants in Indonesia have been subject to cruel behavior. The groups took particular exception to the practice of riding elephants. While Nigel made clear the need for elephants to get sufficient exercise -- they normally walk 20 kilometers a day, versus 7 - 8 km in the park -- and the relative light weight of the riders, the animal rights groups would hear nothing of it. Then the Indonesian government suddenly banned riding elephants outright causing the number of visitors to the park to plummet from 400 to 40 a day. Nigel and his family have had to subsidize the park -- which employs nearly 200 locals -- to care for and feed the elephant herd.The park continues to be supported by Nigel and his family with only the fees paid by park visitors. The park gets no government funding. Now the challenge continues... finding new ways to bring in visitors without the popular riding. Visitors now walk the elephants, and wash them, and swim with them. Visitors also enjoy the lush habitat and the park's restaurant. Nigel, his wife, and two sons remain dedicated to the park. Nigel makes clear that they will carry on and will find new ways to care for the elephants and to welcome visitors to this unique experience. If and when you're in Bali, please make sure to visit the Mason Elephant Park.

Richard Savoie is the CoFounder and CEO of Adiona Tech, a high-tech logistics company that helps suppliers of both B2B and B2C -- business and consumer services -- optimize the efficiency of their delivery fleets. Richard's passion for and contribution to sustainability is pronounced. Since 2021, his firm has enabled delivery fleet operators to save millions of miles of travel, hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel, and 7.2 million kilograms of carbon dioxide from being released into the atmosphere. Using machine learning, and artificial intelligence, Adiona Tech optimizes the efficiency of delivery fleets in real time, reducing the number of trucks and clarifying delivery times.Richard was born and raised in New Hampshire. After studying at Northeastern University in Boston, Richard and his wife moved to Australia where he worked for a number of years in medical device engineering. Then Richard flexed his entrepreneurial side... ultimately cofounding Adiona Tech with a partner who specializes in optimization and computer science. They saw massive inefficiencies in the delivery supply chain and built software address this. Their first client was CocaCola. Today Adiona Tech has clients throughout Australia, New Zealand, in parts of Southeast Asia, and pilot programs in the United States. He notes that Australia Post... one of the world's largest postal distributors... is a key client that Adiona Tech helped to greatly increase the efficiency of its operations. In fact, Adiona Tech helped it to cut its fleet size, increase its delivery services, while providing a 100x return on the cost of the delivery optimization.The conversation hits on several facets of the supply chain, notably the last mile. Traditionally and on average, trucks serving the last mile have been only 60% full. Using Adiona Tech's services, delivery trucks can be 80-90% full, fleets can be smaller, and tremendous financial and environmental gains can be realized. Adiona Tech starts with its focus on both the supply side -- where products originate -- and the demand side, where they are delivered to businesses and consumers. Factors and optimization parameters considered include cargo size, weight, and volume; whether the products are palletized or not, the types of fleet vehicles used and more. Routes vary based on demands and on actual traffic patterns through what Richard calls "dynamic routing."The conversation shifts to the rise and potential for electric vehicles, noting range considerations that alter routes, but also the efficiency of EVs and their promise to further increase the efficiency and decarbonization of logistics. Autonomous vehicles are discussed, with Richard explaining the necessary orchestration of three technologies: AI, autonomous vehicles, and robotics. We are not there yet, but Richard anticipates the effective convergence of these in the next ten years... further enhancing the efficiency of delivery services. These advances will continue to boost Adiona Tech's outsized beneficial environmental impact.

Millennial Potash has a big mission... to feed the world's growing population.  Global population growth is expected to rise from 7+ billion currently to some 12 billion by 2050. Millennial Potash is in the fertilizer business. Potash is a form of potassium - potassium chloride. It is considered the king of fertilizers. It strengthens crop roots, enhances water retention, replenishes the soil, and thus boosts agricultural yields. Potassium is one of the big three chemicals that make up NPK, nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium. Today, many countries are classifying it as a critical mineral given its huge importance with agriculture and food production.Farhad Abasov is the Chairman, Director and Co-Founder of Millennial Potash. It's his 8th company. His past works have also been mining ventures, extracting lithium, uranium, and other minerals. Millennial is based in Saskatchewan, but Farhad is based in Dubai and beams in from the the United Arab Emirates for the podcast conversation. He explains that Dubai is strategically located as Millennial's big new venture is developing a potash mine in Gabon, Africa. The mine, known as the Banio project, is 1,238 square kilometers in size, about half the State of Rhode Island.Potash is naturally occurring in soils, and is also found in rich deposits that formed from ancient seas that evaporated over time. Farhad explains that there is a huge amount of potash on the planet... enough for centuries and centuries of production at today's use rates. The challenge, he explains, is that potash reserves are not where potash is used. The biggest users of potash are the United States, China, Brazil, and India, while the largest potash reserves are in Canada, Russia, and Belarus. The Gabon location is strategically located in a politically stable country and along the coast. Millennial is building an export port in the Atlantic to move its material to key global markets.Ted asks about the environmental impacts of potash mining. Is it strip-mined like coal? No, explains Farhad. Instead solution mining used, a process in which water (in this case sea water) is injected into the Earth forcing the mineral to the surface where it is dried and the loaded onto cargo ships for export. There is very little impact on the surface, no underground work, no subsidence or sink holes, the mine appearing more like a natural gas facility than mineral mine. As for the impact of drying the material in a jungle-like environment, Millennial is building a 25 MW natural gas power plant for this function, a relatively small facility given the enormity of the mine that will be Gabon's largest industry and largest employer... and the billions of tons of potash that will be extracted there to feed the world.

Sammy Roth is a diligent investigator and journalist who has established himself as one of California's leading climate columnists. He explains that he has used the power of the media for his entire career, since elementary school. From an early age he recognized the big voice that one could have as a journalist reaching the masses. He began to focus on the environment and sustainability when he was a student at Columbia University studying sustainable development.Ted met Sammy ten years ago when he was the Desert Sun's energy reporter, covering California's Coachella Valley, based in Palm Springs. There he reported on the conflicts and controversies surrounding desert solar and wind projects, raising awareness of the tradeoffs between development of renewables and wildlife habitat and conservation. He also researched and wrote extensively about water issues in the West. Then he moved back to his home town of Los Angeles where he worked for the LA Times, writing 1 -2 articles a week in addition to producing a blog and podcast called The Boiling Point.Sammy clearly has a reputation as a hard-hitting environmental reporter. Ted asks him about how he has been able to balance the interests of his readers and whether he has had to walk a fine line. No, he replied, he has always been able to tell it like he sees it, noting the unwavering support of his colleagues, editors, and readers. His guiding principle has been to dig in and find the story, reveal what's accurate, and to report on what's going to make the world work better. It's all about advancing solutions and fixing problems, he states.When asked about the results of his reporting, he bifurcates results: First is raising awareness which he explains is really hard to measure. Second is creating impact. He discusses raising awareness about how oil companies sponsor sports... like Union 76 being a major sponsor of his beloved LA Dodgers. Then he shifts to Disneyland and discusses his reporting about a ride at Tomorrowland... where he raised awareness about polluting engines powering cars in Autopia. His articles caused Disneyland to pledge to switch to electric vehicles... much more in line with current times. Clearly Sammy has melded his interests with his journalism, something he wants to amplify in his new pursuit, his independent work with Climate-Colored Goggles.The conversation shifts to his reporting on the Ivanpah solar concentrating power plant that millions of motorists see each year on their way to Las Vegas. The pronounced three towers surrounded by fields or mirrors was a potent symbol of the future of solar. But Sammy supported the plant's closure, as its largest off-taker, Pacific Gas and Electric, wanted. But despite bird deaths, operational deficiencies, and the rise of more cost-effective, utility-scale photovoltaic plants, California regulators insisted on keeping Ivanpah operational despite its operating deficiencies... resulting in Sammy's article that he titled "The Solar Stupidity is Blinding."The conversation shifts to water, its shortage in the West and its overlap with energy. Drought not only crimps water supply in the Colorado River basin, but affects hydroelectric production. Agrivoltaics is another nexus between energy and water, the potential to reduce evaporation and the amount of water needed for crop yields, while generating electricity. And while nearly every part of California is out of drought conditions thanks to good rainfall and a robust snowpack, the snowpack in the Rockies which supplies the Colorado River is below average. No, he noted, we are not out of the woods. Ted asks about the solution. Sammy makes clear that everyone in the seven-state watershed (30 million people and 5 million acres of farmland) needs to use less water, a challenging scenario indeed.Sammy left the LA Times towards the end of 2025 after seven years in what he called a great niche, to do his own thing, namely writing a blog called Climate-Colored Goggles, a subscription-based venture. In his eyes, everything is a climate issue. It's not just relegated to policy and politics. Climate change is ubiquitous... intertwined with entertainment, media, sports, music, etc. He explains that he was ready for a change and ready for even greater independence as a journalist... stretching his creativity, reporting in new formats and new frequencies. While he misses his colleagues at the LA Times, Climate-Colored Goggles is where he is focused now. Check him out at ClimateColoredGoggles.com.

Bill McKibben is an author and activist who Ted met in 1990 after the release of Bill's New York Times best seller, The End of Nature. In that book, he raised awareness about the reality and perils of global warming, now known as climate change. Since then, Bill has written 20 books and has earned over 20 honorary doctorates from colleagues and universities. He also is a recipient of the Right Livelihood Award, considered the alternative Nobel Peace Prize, and the Gandhi Peace Prize.The conversation begins with a discussion of his most recent book, Here Comes the Sun. Without question, emphasizes Bill, the time has come for solar to power our global society. Despite recent setbacks by the current United States presidential administration, Bill cites the remarkable rise of solar worldwide. China, for instance, has been adding solar at a rate of 3 GW a day. In 2023, solar became the cheapest and fastest-growing source of power. But in that same year, our climate was heated to record levels. We have reached 430 parts per million CO2 in the atmosphere, well above the 350 limit  that climate scientists warned us about. But there is more good news, even in California, despite its political leaders attempts to limit solar, natural gas use is down 40% just in the past few years.Bill co-founded 350.org nearly 20 years ago to raise awareness about climate. Since then 350.org has organized over 20,000 rallies, protests, and other events in every country except North Korea. It continues to engage and raise alarms about catastrophic environmental degradation. He talks about SunDay and its 500 events in 2025. Recently, Bill founded Third Act, an organization group led by "elders" such as he in their Third Acts that promotes clear energy solutions and defends democracy. Just like the third act in a theater production, this is the time and chance for resolution of a number of subplots. He insists that there is still time to fully utilize the giant solar reactor in the sky, some 93 million miles away. And he notes that solar provides a great opportunity for our global civilization to unify around a mission, much like we did in the United States with the moonshot in the 1960s.

Alix Lebec is the Founder and CEO of LEBEC. She grew up in Paris, then her family moved to South Korea and China. She was educated in Paris and in London, and now lives in Miami. Ted notes at the onset, "You are truly a global citizen." She and her colleagues are working on global solutions. Her specialty is innovative finance for sustainable development.LEBEC's mission is to democratize access to capital, opportunity and knowledge. The women-led team has grown into a platform to mainstream and scale innovative finance. Alix explains that its three pillars are its strategic advisory services, managing its own boutique investment fund, and making funders and non-profits and others aware of innovative finance. At its core is blending forms of finance and bringing together different capital tools. Her firm is expert at using philanthropy to catalyze initiatives, to de-risk them, then bringing in institutional and larger investors to scale initiatives.Alix's work is sector agnostic. She and her colleagues are advising clients and raising funding across sectors including water, energy, agriculture and food, affordable housing, and health. It's all about scaling solutions by using an innovative finance playbook to shape a resilient and healthy economy and climate. For the past five years, LEBEC has worked with families, foundations, corporations, and banks, all looking to put capital to work in more impactful ways. At the other end of the process are recipients: The firm is supporting socially responsible entrepreneurs.Ted asks for a few examples and Alix presents four: She began developing the innovative financing model working with Water Equity, an organization founded by Gary White and actor Matt Damon. Its mission was to help women and their families get small loans to access drinking water, originally in India and Bangladesh. They began by using private sources of capital to provide micro-financing for water taps into main lines. Based on a track record of consistent repayments, they effectively de-risked larger investments of more conventional grants and loans from major organizations. Ultimately, the initiative secured $5 billion in capital for a range of water infrastructure and sanitation projects scaled up on several continents. Seeing that "financing playbook" work so well encouraged Alix to launch LEBEC.Other consulting works, included working with a Fortune 500 company that required strong returns for its investments, but that also wanted to have greater societal impact. Alix helped the company mix its financing tools, strategically blending its philanthropic endeavors with more conventional financial instruments. For the Miami Foundation, Alix built an innovative for affordable housing and environmental protection in Florida, using its philanthropic activities to prove the model and then seed conventional financing. LEBEC also works with non-profits and entrepreneurs with sourcing capital and using limited funds for the greatest impact.The conversation shifts to Alix's assertion that the world is falling short some $5 trillion in funding for the new economy - investments in low-carbon, climate-resilient solutions. "Clean energy is the future," she says, things like scaling solar-powered water pumping. Closing the funding gap is critical to enhancing food production for a growing population. There is also a huge need for health care and education. While some think that foundation grants and program-related investments will be sufficient, Alix believes that philanthropy has to be leveraged to tap into larger sources of financing, like big banks such as JP Morgan. Another key driver, she asserts, is proper valuation of climate risk. As the insurance industry forces us all to get real on these risks, capital will flow to help close the multi-trillion-dollar gap.Ted closes with asking Alix where she got the passion for her work. She responded that early exposure to different cultures, growing up abroad, and traveling across the Southeast Asia region, opened her eyes. Her first job, working on a documentary in Sudan, reinforced her sense of need and direction. Then working for The World Bank, she saw first-hand the struggles of underserved communities, and the disparity with people who have so much. This rooted her passion and LEBEC's important drive to democratize access to capital, opportunities, and wealth.

250. A big number. A lot of podcast episodes! Flanigan's Eco-Logic hit this major milestone in December.Sierra Flanigan and Skye Flanigan, Ted's daughters host this milestone edition. They draw out the good, the breadth of topics and featured guests... and even some of the biggest blunders!"So what does this milestone mean to you Dad?" Ted thanks his daughters for urging him to shift from publishing a monthly newsletter -- which he did for 40 years -- and to create a podcast. "After all Dad, you love to talk, you are full of BS, and you know so many professionals in this space! If you can just get to 10 podcasts, you'll be off and running," they said then. No one imagined hitting the 250 mark!Ted talks about how the podcast has enriched his life. Yes, it takes a lot of work, but how amazing it is to have the privilege to interview and network with so many inspired and inspiring individuals... over 200 great guests with valuable perspectives all. Skye notes that the podcast has featured quite a number of "big wigs" Yes, notes Ted. It's been an honor to converse with so many chief executive officers, executive directors, a mayor, a U.S. Representative... even a Chinese billionaire. Featured guests include Gina McCarthy, Mary Nichols, Mike Peevey, Denis Hayes, and recently Jon Creyts, the Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Institute where Ted began his career. Ted also discusses his international guests, beaming in from Tahiti, Dubai, Nairobi, Scandinavia, and Australia... covering topics such as ocean health, "slow fashion," and energy access in the developing world. He thanks repeat guests including Jigar Shah, Steve Lewis, Jonathan Parfrey, and Evan Mills.The informal conversation touches on over 50 guests... from grubstaking with Henk Van Alphen, to recycling the unrecyclable with Tom Szaky, to much more efficient electric transmission lines with Dr. Jason Huang, and watershed health with TreePeople's Amanda Begley. Ted notes Rebecca Tickell's Big Picture Ranch films on the soil and regenerative agriculture, and Jack Gro... the NFL's sustainability officer.The breadth of issues is what makes the podcast fresh and interesting for listeners. Ted discusses his view of sustainability and the taxonomy he has developed that address what he calls the spheres of sustainability... energy, water, transportation, the built environment, greenhouse gases, waste management, food and agriculture, and health and wellness. Topics covered include climate music, wildlife crossings, oyster farming, sustainable energy utilities, coffee, tea, the Aspen Ski Company's methane capture, and biophilic design with former colleague Bill Browning.Sierra has hosted Eco-Logic's 17 crash courses in which she interviews Ted, together working to take challenging topics and to relate them in interesting and digestible ways. These include courses on offshore wind, vehicle-to-grid integration, microgrids for energy resilience, net billing, and most recently a course on combusting green hydrogen. More to come! Ted threatens to tackle power factor in an upcoming episode... a complex nuance of power system engineering.When asked, Ted presents a few key lessons learned. First off, be prepared. Then. like journalism, kick off with the meat of the matter. Not to much chit-chat! Then hang loose. And yes, there will be blunders.... He recounts some of those with a chuckle. The conversation ends with thanks to all who have been instrumental in making the podcast a success: Sierra Flanigan, Skye Flanigan, Alizeh Siddiqui, and Bill Flanigan, with special recognition to Eco-Logic's podcast coach, Rhys Waters from Podstarter in Nova Scotia. It's a team effort, with lots of parts. Ted laments that recording the conversations is the least of it!In closing Ted again thanks his wonderful guests and encourages listeners to send nominations for more of them. "We've had so many great guests that we'd never heard of including recent ones like Tom Chi, Ralph Bianculli, Rinaldo Brutaco, John Belizaire, Chance Claxton, and Heather White. Bring 'em on! We're now working on the next 250!"

Andrew Arentowicz is the Co-Founder and CEO of 50:50 Foods, a firm devoted to making healthier burgers. Drew explains that his company's burgers are made up of 50% beef and 50% vegetables. Concerned about the ravages of Amazon rainforest slash and burn practices -- to raise cattle for beef -- Drew and his colleague went to work in their own kitchens to make burgers that taste just as good as their all-beef brethren, but that are healthier both for the planet and for their consumers.Drew tells his origin story...  from early explorations, the realization that consumers are unwilling to completely give up beef, to his early recipes, leading to manufacture at a major burger facility in San Diego. At this point, the burgers are available in 142 retail outlets -- notably at Pavilions and Vons supermarkets, through Thrive on line, and at Disneyland. Clearly 50:50 Foods has come a long way... a bootstrapped start-up that Drew notes "checks all the boxes!" He discusses the dual needs to cut down on beef consumption and to increase vegetable consumption. For parents, his burgers are a form of "stealth health," as they taste better while offering a potential sustainability solution.While not marketed for their environmental benefits, Both burgers address environmental concerns head on. Fully 14% of all greenhouse gas emissions are attributed to cows. For every pound of beef production avoided, 100 pounds of greenhouse gases are avoided. Cows and cow food production are responsible for nearly half of all fresh water used in America, dwarfing the 12% used in our homes. Every Both burger cuts water use by nearly 2,000 gallons in the switch from all beef to 50:50's recipe. But Drew is not one to "brow-beat" consumers: Fundamentally, he stresses that Both burgers are delicious. And when produced at scale, they will cost less as vegetables cost less than beef on a pound-per-pound basis. The conversation weaves through Drew's rather fortuitous start-up, some of the challenges of working within FDA and USDA protocols and regulations, the clear benefits of 50:50 Foods, and the entrepreneurial path that Drew and his team have taken in developing their potent niche. What's next? First, scaling the burgers.... then taking a look at other related products like meat balls, hot dogs, and chicken nuggets.

Heather White is the founder and director of the non-profit OneGreenThing. She and her colleagues are focused on helping people of all ages overcome eco-anxiety, and more specifically climate anxiety. Rather than being paralyzed by the enormity of it all and the gloom and doom of myriad threats to our natural world, she has developed a philosophy of empowerment. For those interested, she provides a test that measures and identifies each of our unique powers to make a positive contribution to climate sanity.Based on Bozeman, Montana, Heather is connected with Mother Earth. Her books help others find their own connections. Her books do not prescribe what people ought to do, but instead asking about who they are... and thus how they can use that self identity to take action... and to find joy in taking action. She explains that it's fulfilling... a far cry from the eco-anxiety that stymies action and well-being.Heather's three books flesh out her philosophy. In 2021, she wrote "OneGreenThing: Discover Your Hidden Power to Help Save the Planet." This was followed by a guide: "Sixty Days to a Greener Life." Recently, she has published "Eco-Anxiety: Saving Our Sanity, Our Kids, and Our Future." The last book's forward was written by Erin Brockovich who serves on OneGreenThing's board. Ted and Heather jump into plastics and the gross ravages of plastic pollution. Her upcoming TedX talk on global plastic pollution is all about solutions and what each of us can do to repel the onslaught of plastic in our lives. To the greatest degree possible, she urges us to avoid single-use plastics, to buy products that have minimal packaging, and to use compostable materials where possible. She offers a plethora of solutions and encourages us all to complement our consumer patterns with being active in the policy arena.The podcast covers Heather's tenure at the Environmental Working Group which she headed, and her remarkable experiences with media. She's been featured on Good Morning America, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, the New York Times, Washington Post and more. And to maintain balance in life, she talks about her own daily practice of getting outside, and imparts the wisdom of a fellow author... who recommends us all to spend time each day... looking up.

Tom Chi is an inventor, entrepreneur, and investor with a deep knowledge of astrophysics. He was a founder and executive at GoogleX working with autonomous driving and AI when he first became alarmed by climate change. A coral reef near his Hawaii home died in less than eight weeks. Mass bleaching and reef collapse took away the most beautiful thing he had ever seen, every color of the rainbow diminished to gray and brown.Tom explains that climate change is not gradual but instead it is marked by extreme fluctuations. Its the outliers, the six degrees hotter in summer and 2 degrees cooler in winter as was the case at his reef, 122 degree heat in British Columbia, and multiple thousand year events taking place in less than a decade, all dangerous outliers. Clearly the Earth's natural systems are out of equilibrium. Tom believes that we have messed up on climate change communications. They are centered on average temperature changes that are "papering over" the worst parts of climate destabilization.At that moment, Tom decided to give up his work at GoogleX -- the best job he'd ever had -- to work on climate solutions. The awakening spurred him to dig into the source of the death in his neighborhood. And he learned that it could happen to entire world, damage that might take 10 - 20 million years to resolve. He considered taking a sabbatical. But he knew the lift was large enough: Clearly he could not effectively work on this in his spare time.So Tom travelled the world to the front lines of ecological damage, to glaciers calving at alarming rates, rivers running dry, Southeastern Asian rainforests destroyed. He witnessed communities where people live on $2 dollars a day, and how that links with ecosystem destruction like slash and burn in the Amazon. He was digging into the root causes of global ecological problems and found some 60 issues that need attention. Rather than being lost in the abstraction of destruction of our ecosystems, he talks about the need to work locally. "Specificity is the friend of innovation." The more specific you are in addressing problems, the faster you succeed, he explained.At One Ventures, Tom brings his tech savvy to influence investors to support new innovations, to stabilize them into high-yield manufacturing cycles... getting technologies into a global business setting to be profitable. He and his colleague are disrupting those sectors that do the most damage. One of At One's investments is with Factor 2 that is developing a geothermal technology that uses CO2 as the working fluid, replacing water with far greater efficiency.Ted and Tom talk about Tom's new book that will be released in February titled "Climate Capital: Investing in Tools for a Regenerative Future." In it he lays out the world's biggest challenges -- climate destabilization, economic destabilization due to AI, and geopolitical instability. He then addresses these with his 4 Cs... critical thinking , creativity, compassion, and community.Sometimes the problems at hand are so big that they are abstract. One of is book's key directives for all of us to repair our own backyard bioregions. He presents inspiring, localized stories... like the reemergence of the Nene birds in Hawaii. It was a small group of people there that spearheaded a captive breeding program that turned that species' decline around. A lone biologist in San Francisco focused on a native species of butterflies, worked with local botanical garden, and created an ideal habitat that rebounded that rebounded population. He stated that you've got to get past national headlines and get specific to get results. That is where we have the power to change the course of history. Tom works directly on technologies that are restoring mangroves with drones, robots that effectively replant coral reefs and sea grasses. Tom ends with a thoughtful response to Ted's question on his work-life balance. He explains that his form of relaxation and best thinking comes from time in his hammock in Hawaii, away from devices. A little swaying motion triggers the vestibular system. He believes that if you want to be less anxious about the future, get into the process of creating the future you want. The people that will make it are "the builders." They make progress every day, not at a newsworthy pace, but progress that is accretive and additive. This is grounding, a salve for what people are struggling with.

Andrew Rothman, the Wildlife Campaigns Director at Environment America (EA), had good and timely news: He is pleased to report that just this morning, the U.S. Congress approved an extension to the pilot program that has funded 35 wildlife crossings projects in America. The six-year extension will bring $1.2 million through the Department of Transportation to local planning efforts and infrastructure to protect wildlife and motorists. Education and advocacy are key parts of Andrew's job, in this case EA's efforts culminating in favorable public policy. The crossings solve two problems: wildlife deaths and motorist accidents. This additional funding will support all manner of crossing forms, be they smaller structures, or modifications to existing bridges and underpasses, or culvert widening for terrestrial and aquatic species."How did you choose glom onto wildlife?"  Andrew describes his early roots:  his family cabin in the north woods of Wisconsin, the Burgess books that impressed him with stories for children about wildlife. As he got older, he focused on rain forests and their wonton destruction for beef production. To combat that habitat destruction he formed the non-profit Rainforest Biodiversity Group in college, something that continues to this day. And he explains, the need is great. World Wildlife and the Zoological Society of London have reported that North America has lost 40% of species of wildlife since 1970, due in large part to habitat loss, but also to pollution and toxins. Andrew is credited with having created Latin America's first bird tourism trail. By doing so, he found the means to allow fellow birders to witness some of Central America's most interesting birds... including the endangered Green Great Macaw. Birding trails were a natural addition to ecotourism in countries like Costa Rica. They tapped into existing lodges in remote sites. And through bird tourism, Andrew enabled local farmers to care for their livelihoods while doing better for conservation.Back in the States, Andrew has been a spokesperson and advocate for wildlife. He spent 11 years at the American Bird Conservancy. He has lectured extensively and written articles and papers. One discussed in the podcast is his paper on the impacts of fighter jet training on wildlife, including test bombings with practice munitions. Andrew explains that much of this has taken place in the American Southwest. He and others have worked to change military policies, for instance regulating training altitudes to protect wildlife. Andrew is new to Environment America and is excited about the organization's work and strategies. Just how does EA prioritize its funding? Andrew notes the breadth and width of the threats to wildlife. He notes that EA is pragmatic, only taking on campaigns that have a good chance of success. He discusses EA's canvass that exists to this day and that surveys neighborhoods to inform and guide its policies and research directions. Much of EA's funding is grass roots... small denominations that collectively are critical to wildlife across America. For those interested in chipping in, see EnvironmentAmerica.org.

Amanda Begley is the Associate Director for Watershed Health at TreePeople, one of LA's largest and most influential non-profits. TreePeople is now 52 years old, originally founded by Andy Lipkis to plant trees to absorb pollution and clean the air. Amanda explains that her nature-based work with watershed health is a reflection of Andy's message of creating functioning community forests to heal the severed cycles of nature. Trees are at the core of effective watershed management, increasing the quality of life in urban environments.Amanda explains how watershed management integrates activities within a common area of land that drains to body of water. It's about "basins of relations," the trees, water, soil,  people, and all sorts of activities.  On behalf of TreePeople, Amanda guides this process in the Santa Clara watershed. She's an educator, a connector between communities and their needs, developing projects for water supply and water quality and community benefit.Thanks to Los Angeles County's 2018 Measure W, LA's nine watersheds are taking new approaches. Instead of allowing an inch of rain in LA to wash the streets into the sea, releasing 3.5 billions of gallons of polluted water in to the Pacific Ocean, Amanda her colleagues are working to retain the water in the upper reaches of the watersheds for multiple benefits, creating more green space, shade, cleaner air, more habitat for birds and pollinators.When queried about what homeowners can do, Amanda recommends simple measures such as diverting downspouts so rainwater can be used to water trees and shrubs. Yes, there was a time, when stormwater management was all about channeling water to the sea to avoid dangerous flooding. But now there are better solutions... ways to capture precious fresh water and to use it to green our communities.Much of TreePeople's work has been in "upper watersheds," providing mountain restoration after fires. She and her team have been replanting native plants and restoring the biological functions of that land. Measure W funding has three goals: refilling "water savings accounts" (aquifers), promoting water quality, and community enhancement, be it new parks, less concrete, green and complete streets, more trees, gardens, habitat, and more. Measure W provides $280 million each year to fund projects that make local sense. LA is a national leader in this regard.The best example of watershed health in LA? Amanda highlights the South Gate Urban Orchard Park that recently opened in a tough, industrialized area of Los Angeles. Now there is an oasis there with clean water feeding avocado and citrus orchards, community gardens and native plants. There are trails for hiking and a play area for kids inspired by local tribal partners. "We can do this," she says, proving that we can create spots in LA's intense urban infrastructure that feel restorative. LA gets a bad rap of being divorced from nature, but Amanda sees it differently, that we are blessed to be here nestled between the ocean and mountains, a vibrant community now bolstered by thoughtful watershed management.

Kari Hammerschlag has spent the past 30 years promoting healthy food. She's been advocating for healthy farming practices and working with schools and institutions to serve healthy food. As the Deputy Director for Food and Agricultural Policy at Friends of the Earth (FOE), she is passionate and clear: For years, our federal government has bowed to the wishes of agribusinesses and the agrochemical industry. This year is even worse, with the current administration not only rolling back EPA funding, but working to streamline new pesticide approvals, and beyond that... launching PR campaigns to promote the safety of these chemicals, misinforming the public.The vast majority of Americans want healthy food. Polls show that 80% do. And while many are very concerned about the chemicals going into our food, our government is at odds with this strong majority. Even Robert F Kennedy Jr's Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) campaign is contradictory to federal policy. An effort that was begun to promote healthy food, MAHA has been coopted and conflicted... resulting in funds being stripped away from small farms, organic and regenerative agriculture, and instead being used to support big business. Kari notes that 60 - 70 chemicals used by U.S. farms today are banned in the countries where they are manufactured. The Chinese make Paraquat but have banned its use in China and instead ship it to America. That's just one issue. Meanwhile, the United States is losing 60 farms a day due to labor issues, climate change and weather, not to mention tariffs that are hurting small and big farms. We are up against "corporate controlled food," explains Kari.Kari makes clear the connection between agriculture and climate change. Working for Environmental Working Group some years ago, Kari wrote the "Meat Eaters Guide to Climate Change and Health." In it, she advocates "diet shift." In the case of meat, she suggests, if you eat it... eat less and use the savings to make sure that the meat that you buy is healthy. Food factory meat is laced with antibodies and growth hormones. Fatty tissues in meat accumulate toxins like dioxins.Later in the discussion, Ted asks Kari what we each of us can do. She smiles and simulates eating a forkful of food, making clear that we each control what we eat. We can choose to eat organic. We can support local farms through farmers' markets. We can ask our local supermarkets and restaurants where our food is sourced. But Kari explains that we can't solve the food issue just by changing our consumption patterns. She emphasizes that we also need to get engaged in the policy arena: Join organizations like FOE, she says, and reach out to our politicians with this simple message: We want healthy food.

Jigar Shah is the first person to be on Flanigan's Eco-Logic three times. Ted digs right into his current work at Multiplier, his new firm focused on advising clean energy startups to navigate financing and operational challenges. Jigar talks about "exits" and helping entrepreneurs determine the best time and way to sell their companies so that their innovations can scale.The clean tech sector has never been more relevant, he notes. The solutions that entrepreneurs are creating are meeting needs of the country... but not the financial needs that these entrepreneurs deserve. Yes, they are doing well at decarbonizing the energy system, but not doing well in terms of financial rewards. Thus Multiplier is helping management teams get better compensation.Ted asks about the impact that the current administration is having on clean tech. Is the sky falling? Good news: Jigar makes clear that stock market returns do not suggest so. In fact, he reports that stock values for clean tech have been "off the charts" for the last seven months. Trump's bad-mouthing clean tech seems to be helping the clean tech sector.The conversation shifts to Jigar's service for the country. "It was terrifically rewarding for me," he reported, as he carried out a clear set of objectives to forge a functioning partnership between the public and private sectors that did not exist in Obama administration nor the first Trump administration. Instead our government has been subtly telling companies that are scaling up American innovations to go to China, India, Malaysia, and other countries. Now U.S. companies are scaling up and doing so in Texas and Tennessee and other states.Jigar was at the helm of a "more muscular" Loan Programs Office (LPO). Its funding was ramped up from $40 billion to $400 billion. During Jigar's tenure, the LPO committed $108 billion.. and closed deals for $61 billion. Most of the $400 billion war chest is still there. Furthermore, Jigar states that the One Big Beautiful Bill promoted and passed by Trump is actually the largest largest climate bill ever. While it prematurely phased out solar and electric vehicle tax credits, it left in place production tax credits as well as tax credits for geothermal, nuclear, hydrogen, carbon capture, and batteries through 2034. It left the LPO with loan authority for advanced transmission projects, new nuclear, and new geothermal.For all the hand-wringing which is real... Jigar reports that there is still potential for the U.S. government to be a partner with private sector to compete with China in clean tech. Loans made under Biden with lithium-ion for example, have promoted the highest quality ores... so much so that the U.S. can be net exporter by 2034. Furthermore, the Trump administration knows that if they continue to restrict and confuse LPO applicants that it will be impossible for the LPO to support the nuclear industry.Jigar is crystal clear that the Trump administration has declared ware on the solar and wind industry. But we are now a nation that knows how to build solar and wind. It's what we have built for the past five years, not natural gas and certainly not coal for which the supply chain does not exist. He is calm and clear: "Cooler heads will prevail" and we will continue to meet the moment to power AI with renewables and to navigate the misinformation presented by the current administration.Jigar strongly believes that the solar and wind industries need to be more proactive in creating a culture that makes clear that solar and wind is doing good for our country. The oil and gas industries have done a good job doing so, supporting Fourth of July parades, Boy Scout troops, etc. Now solar and wind need to do better, to move beyond the moniker of alternatives... and taking full responsibility for the power system using grid enhancing technologies paired with conventional baseload resources as well as batteries and small modular reactors.The interview ends with a discussion of Jigar's most memorable moments in DC. He mentions Easter Egg hunts in the Rose Garden with his son, taking his wife to certain events. But most off all, he is proud of having convinced hundreds of colleagues to join the federal government and to getting them to believe that serving in the government is a noble cause. He got the nation's best and brightest to serve, helping to make sure that the United States not only invents, but also scales up, clean energy technologies domestically and with our allies.

Ralph Bianculli explains that it all began in the late 1990s. He was a paper and plastics industry executive and wanted to change the trajectory of wastes. He recounts about that era... marked by incessant foam coffee cups and all manner of single-use disposables. Now he manufacturers and sells 370+ products... all of which are made from natural, organic materials, and all of which are easily composted. Today, his company can boast about major, positive environmental impacts.... avoiding the use of 43 million pounds of plastics, keeping 7.7 million kg of CO2 from being released into the atmosphere, and he has saved over a half million trees... not to mention 74 million pounds of landfill waste.Ralph recounts his prior career in the food service industry, at odds with the planet. "I was part of the problem," he laments, and he wanted to change that. He had a rude awakening traveling the world where he recognized that other countries were well ahead of us in adapting to the functionality of products and disposables. America was relentless using virgin materials then and throwing them away. Emerald Ecovation's product portolio today covers food service compostables, facility supplies, janitorial products, and packaging materials. The company is providing "everyday essentials" for institutions of all kinds, from major Fortune 500 companies to cruise lines, universities, hospitals, and more. It is an aggregator of raw materials, different types of fiber materials such as bagasse, wheat, and miscanthus... a fast-growing grass. "We create formulations for finished goods," and license manufacturers with 48 factories around the world. Ralph explains that the company's path has been painful at times, but more so exciting, for instance finding new uses for miscanthus in pet and equestrian bedding. Clay is used in packaging materials instead of plastics and is readily compostable.An important part of Emerald Ecovation's work is educating its buyers and suppliers about lifecycle analysis of products used and made. To do so, Ralph formed the Emerald Sustainability Institute (ESI). Let's use trees as an example: Ralph explains that they sequester 18% of the carbon on the planet and at same time give off oxygen. Trees are the lungs of the planet and thus need to be revered, certainly not wasted. All of Emerald's suppliers are ESA certified and ESA now has over over 2,000 graduates. Emerald also helps its customers meet their Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) goals, The Environmental Impact Reports that Emerald provides present clear metrics, giving all stakeholders solid indexes of what they are accomplishing by shifting to eco-friendly products and practices. Emerald boasts being the only tree-free paper producer and it is serving 1.2 million clients a day. It is putting farmers to work. Its mission is move past recycling. Its organic materials are formed into products, go into its composting systems, and 24 hours later come our as organic soil.

Dr. Jon Creyts is the CEO of Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI) and joins Ted from RMI's Innovation Center in Basalt, Colorado... high in the Rocky Mountains. The Center "sails on the sun" Jon explains, a net positive building that produces more energy than it consumes... demonstrating off-the-shelf, cost-effective technologies. He calls is an emblem of what we can do... even in the cold of high mountain Colorado winters.Ted asks what Jon is most proud of. In his 15-year tenure at RMI, three as CEO, the Institute has grown 10x in size, and arguably in stature making the world better RMI is leading the global energy transformation, and Jon is amazed by the change RMI is producing... operating in more than 50 countries... from promoting sustainable concrete production, to working with fleets of heavy duty trucks and demonstrating electric drive trains, fuel cells, and super efficient biofuels, to a rooftop solar pilot in India, to green steel standards for Chinese factories selling to European markets, to electrifying agriculture in Africa.Jon discusses RMI's founder, Amory Lovins, and his guidance.. and his hugely optimistic and pragmatic notion of "applied hope,"  a term Amory coined years ago.. a vision that coupled with a little muscle... has been key to willing change into existence.   For RMI's 650 staff and partnerships network collaborators, focusing on efficiency first and then market-based solutions, applied hope "unites us" explains Jon.The conversation then shifts to a global perspective on the clean energy transition. Jon makes clear that it has not bee derailed by the current presidential administration. China is leading the charge, with 3 GW of solar being installed each day, half of its new cars sold are electric, and RMI believes that China is now past peak CO2 emissions. China has proven that a country can decouple carbon emissions and economic growth.  And other countries such as India and Australia are on similar trajectories... every country surging in the transition. Jon emphasizes that 80% of the world is unlocking the economic opportunities of clean energy at scale. While the transition is "messy," Jon makes clear that it is happening faster than many of us thought it would.That said, there is still tremendous energy waste in our global economy... some $2 trillion a year. This constitutes low-hanging fruit... economic opportunity indeed to fuel the transition. Jon presents a powerful and optimistic view, making clear that the long-term arc of history is bending toward efficiency, renewables, and sustainability. Jon then turns a bit "nerdy" and provides an example of RMI's focus on new and exciting technologies, featuring a roof coating that repels heat, wicking heat away from buildings and sending long wavelengths of heat back into space. This is known as passive daytime radiative cooling and has tremendous global promise. Through radiative cooling coatings -- developed for aerospace initially -- our global society can offset the great need for additional cooling resulting from climate change.Jon concludes with his focus for RMI at the upcoming COP-30 conference in Brazil... where he and others will focus on how to strengthen power grids worldwide... so critical to electrifying mobility and industry, and bringing renewables to the fore. He will also focus on RMI's work with decarbonizing hard-to-reach subsectors such as steel, cement, and chemicals.At Ted's prompting, he ends with a few notes on balance and his passion for music. He travels the world with a guitar and takes time each evening to unwind and to find time for solace and quiet and harmony... essential ingredients for us all as we work the challenge of transforming the global energy economy for the benefit of all. 

Tom Szaky's journey is fascinating, one of extreme innovation. His firm, TerraCycle, recycles ~400 different products and materials. Ted asks right off the bat, "Do you really recycle soiled diapers, cigarette butts, shoes, juice pouches, and chewing gum?" Tom quickly makes clear that everything can be recycled... at a cost. He has clearly used his ingenuity to develop revenue streams, for instance, support from tobacco companies that want to address littered butts and disposable diaper companies seeking to gain public support through their commitment to recycling. He also goes to where the supplies of recyclable are... for instance, daycares and senior homes for soiled diapers.Tom's family fled from Hungary after the Chernobyl nuclear accident. As a young man in Toronto, Canada, he and his father watched a large television being thrown away. TVs are coveted items in Hungary, Tom explains. They took it home... and it worked... in color! Tom was struck by the throw-away society in North America and has devoted his career to recycling things other than paper, plastic, cans, and bottles. These are already profitable. It's the rest of the waste stream that needs attention.Tom began his recycling work at college at Princeton. He organized and composted food service wastes there.... deep into vermiculture (worms). He left school to take this on full time... from food wastes to compost to sales in Europe and in America to major companies including Kroger and Walmart. Today he has a staff of 400 and is working across the country and internationally. Tom highlights re-use... even better than recycling. With Asics shoes, TerraCycle is taking old foam and other materials from spent shoes. Then Asics is using that "raw" materials for a line of its shoes.He spun off the TerraCycle Foundation to support ocean clean-ups. His foundation has been working in Thailand on upstream waste collection... in rivers and canals before the waste washes into the oceans. So far, that work has resulted in 3.2 million pounds of material. Meanwhile Tom was writing four books, hosting a television show, growing his companies' impacts, and with his wife raising a family with four kids. He has been recognized by the United Nations and by Time and Fortune magazines for his innovation and sustainability impact. His reward, he notes, is "running a purposeful business."

Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) produces less than 1% of all food in America, and consumes more energy than all open-field agriculture in the country. According to Ted's guest Dr. Evan Mills, CEA could increase and consume some 7% of national energy use... more than data centers, all enclosed malls, air travel, cement making, or chemical production. These findings are the highlight's of Evan's recent research paper titled, "The Emergence of Indoor Agriculture as a Driver of Global Energy Demand." Cultivating crops in mechanized greenhouses and windowless plant factories is a big deal. The paper is a "meta-analysis" of 116 publications that document CEA practices involving 23 crops grown in 154 locations in 40 countries plus Antarctica.Evan puts CEA in context: For the past 10,000 years, agriculture has been almost exclusively outdoors. Early experiences with  growing food indoors dates back to the Roman Empire when the Emperor had his melons grown in greenhouses glazed with translucent stones. In the 1450s, Koreans grew some crops in heated greenhouses. But it wasn't until the 1960s that CEA took off in countries like Norway, Sweden, Russia, Japan, and Iceland... largely in cold climates where fresh vegetables are not available in the depths of winter. The research includes Inuit villages in Canada and other "extreme CEA" at the poles.Evan discusses types of CEA facilities: Some are low-tech, open greenhouses. Others are closed, windowless structures. No soil, no rain, no wind, etc. They use energy for lighting, heating, cooling, dehumidification, snow melting, refrigeration, and soil streaming. This energy use allows year-round, multi-crop farming of crops including lettuce, tomatoes, herbs, leafy greens, cucumbers, and micro-greens. Of all CEA crops, Evan explains, cannabis is the most energy intensive... demanding 23,200 megajoules/kilogram of marketable weight. This compares with an average of 78 MJ/kG for other plant factories. Being the largest US cash crop, cannabis can afford the costs of that level of energy intensity. Its energy use results in CO2 emissions equivalent to 10 million cars.The discussion digs into how to make CEA more efficient. Barriers are discussed -- cost, finance, lack of knowledge, skepticism, etc. -- as well as opportunities for increased efficiency including more efficient lighting, glazings, and heating practices... as well as decreasing the photoperiod and varying "fertigation" techniques. Root zone cooling has been experimented with in the United Arab Emirates. Later, Evan comments that trying to make CEA more efficient "is like optimizing the suboptimal."Evan and Ted discuss claims that CEA is more sustainable that conventional agriculture: "It uses less land, it requires less transport of food crops, it is more resilient." Each are debunked. And major companies such as General Mills, Google, GE, GTE, and Sylvania all made attempts with CEA... and all backed out given the unattractive economics of the practice. Consider this, noted Evan: Growing enough protein for one adult for an entire year, if done with CEA, requires as much energy (16 MWh) as an all-electric home with two electric vehicles. That's a lot of power. The conversation ends with Ted asking Evan for his views on CEA. Is it ever appropriate? Yes, in certain applications and certain locations it is... if done efficiently, of course. Final point made by Evan: Conventional agriculture has tremendous opportunities for greater efficiency as well.Dr. Evan Mills is a retired Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and a Research Affiliate at the Energy and Resources Group at the University of California at Berkeley.

Chance Claxton is a serial entrepreneur, a brand builder. Her most recent works involves  axial flux motors, known as pancake motors. They are lighter weight, lower cost, and highly efficient electric motors. Her company, Orbis Elecric, has been working with the VW Group and other automotive OEMs to put these motors inside wheels. They can be positioned in two rear wheels or in all four wheels for high torque and high horsepower applications.Orbis is working in several verticals: The motors are also being employed in the refrigeration systems in refrigerated trucks, driving down costs and boosting efficiency. Recently, Orbis Electric has promoted its motors for cooling systems in AI data centers. Chance explains that this is a booming market, there are lots of eyes on it. Thus there is great interest and fundraising capabilities in deploying this type of innovation and efficiency in that energy-intensve vertical.Ted delves into Chance's diverse career, unearthing lessons learned in her path of entrepreneurialism. She began with a company designed to make Italian lines of furniture easily accessible, a company aptly called Design Within Reach.They developed an online catalog and then managed manufacturers in Italy to deliver the products.For 13 years, Chance was at the helm of U Konserve. That company was and still is about packaging to avoid food waste. With kids in school, she thought there must be a better solution than disposable ziplock bags. This career aligned with her sustainability values. U Konserve known  for reusable containers and food wraps. It ultimately sold to a bigger company, teaching her about scaling up, and knowing when to step aside. It's all about timing she said more than once.Another job taught her when to throw in the towel. With a business partner/inventor, she decided to make the ultimate mask to protect from Covid. They were manufactured it in China. She was just about to release just as the requirements for masks in America were lifted! She called that venture a swing and a miss... all back to timing. Remarkably, she and that inventor went on to develop automotive breaks. Orbis Brakes has the goal of disrupting the $30 billion brake industry. Orbis makes an inside-out form of disc brake, a ring with lots of ventilation. The motor fits right inside; the wheel encompasses the whole system. Chance explains how the brakes not only cut material costs, but also reduce nano-particulate pollution.Orbis Electric is focused on the motors and how to commercialize them. She describes the two test vehicles supplied b by Volkswagen to prototype the in-wheel motor system, one being an ID4 modified in California and then extensively track tested. Her company is working to develop alternative magnet materials, decreasing costs while increasing the sustainability of products. Chance discusses raising capital, a big piece of the equation. It's not easy being a self-funded company, constantly working to balance opportunities and resources. Thus the current data center focus. You have to go where the money is... matching that with areas of huge potential. She describes how one-third of world's electricity is wasted by inefficient motors and their operation. Many are not "smart motors," they are running all the time even when not needed.The conversation ends with more advice and reflection: Timing, staying in lane, defining your path, sticking with it, and radically shifting if need be. She discusses passion, a key ingredient in being resilient, so critical for entrepreneurial paths... perhaps more important than eduction and specialization. And passion need not be singular... it can be applied in lots of different ways at different times. You can't know it all, she implores, but there's so much you can learn by rolling up your sleeves.

Having completed "The Impossible House" project, Robert Fortunato changed his career and switched from the corporate world of mergers and acquisitions to helping others tap into the green movement. He is now a green building advocate, an experienced practitioner, consultant, and educator. This episode is a follow-on interview. Episode #230 documented his inspiring green home construction project. While he was told repeatedly why he could not pursue a fossil-free and healthy home, Robert was determined, got educated, convened smart collaborators, and "impossible" was transformed into reality. He burns no fossil fuels, his home is healthier, and his family is saving money every day.Robert and Ted discuss the role of green building consultants, helping clients to plan carefully, and to tap into new technologies that make sense. Robert is an owner's rep; he who works on behalf of clients. Like Ted, he has worked with schools, businesses, and homeowners making sure they realize savings for their investments.Robert stresses the need for consideration of green measures early in the design process. Things like relatively small investments in whole house surge protection can be readily incorporated, providing insurance for years to come. Robert and Ted talk about the merits of "doing it right" the first time: They discuss orientation for solar, recognizing varying levels of shading throughout the year and both its cooling benefits and solar power generation demerits. The short and long-term benefits of solar and green measures are front and center in the conversation... providing dollar savings, healthier environments and comfort. Robert and Ted focus on lifecycle benefits - which can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars - versus the upfront costs of measures which can be in the tens of thousands. Solar and efficiency, and electric vehicles and heat pumps, can save money over time... serving as viable annuities. Robert presents his own home savings, now well over $60,000... money that he and his wife put into their son's college education.Robert describes the courses that he teaches for Southern California Edison. For the past ten years Robert has taught a course on building electrification, with invaluable lessons for architects, engineers, and lay people. They learn how to keep costs down while eliminating fossil fuels. A new course focuses on how to avoid costly panel upgrades through sophisticated controls and smart energy management, despite adding loads such as heat pumps and electric vehicles.

Georges Dyer is the Co-Founder and Executive Director of the Intentional Endowments Network (IEN), a non-profit, peer-learning network that helps endowed institutions make their endowments socially responsible. Of the 3,500 - 4,000 colleges and universities in America, some 2,000 have endowments that are valued at ~$900 billion in aggregate. These academic institutions -- as well as asset management firms, cultural institutions, museums, faith-based organizations, non-profit foundations, and others -- also have a similar value in retirement funds... which while highly regulated, are also being directed towards socially responsible and profitable investments.Georges explains the genesis of IEN. Spurred by the president of Hampshire College, Jonathan Lash, IEN was originally formed to help institutions divest from fossil-fueled industries that were counter to their climate action plans. Student and faculty concerns really started to press on endowment portfolios in 2013. Today, IEN works with some 250 endowments. Ted asks the bottom line question early: How are these endowments performing? Are they losing money, or are they on par, or are they ahead? Georges explains that on balance, they are at par or better.IEN provides a number of tools and resources for its members.. from virtual and in-person "convenings," to benchmarking tools, case studies, and more. The network provides insights and negative screening tools to weed out investments that run counter to an institution's mission and goals, while highlighting positive investment opportunities to reduce risk and steer institutions towards profitable investments in the green economy. The conversation shifts to case studies of "platinum" members: Georges discusses leading institutions including the University of California system and Arizona State University. He discusses how some institutions have found means to invest in their own facilities... for instance solar projects and facility upgrades that make dollars and cents while addressing inequality and other social issues. Georges sites the Rockefeller Brothers Fund as a shining example. Born of oil and gas and fossil fuels, Rockefeller has been a leading example of an organization whose Standard Oil roots are now focused on "intentional investments" with highly positive performance. For more on IEN and its mission and results, check out Georges' new podcast, "The Future of Finance."

Dr. Jason Huang is the co-founder and CEO of TS Conductors, a firm that manufacturers advanced conductors for electric utilities. The TS conductors, or transmission lines, carry up to three times as much power as conventional transmission lines (wires). They also cut power line losses by up to one half, often at a negative marginal cost... meaning they cost less than conventional lines and boost capacity. Jason explains that given today's thirst for power for data centers, building and mobility electrification, these conductors are critical in maintaining U.S. competitiveness in global markets, while providing critical services for renewable power generation.Jason explains that the power sector is very conservative, working diligently to provide safe and reliable transmission services. Many utilities are using 120-year old transmission technology... while others are using "advances" that are 50+ years old. TS Conductors uses a combination of carbon fiber cores, which double their strength and weigh 80% less, with encapsulated aluminum conductors. Through TS Conductors, utilities can invest in the future... restringing power lines at lower costs and faster than using traditional technologies.For years, utility transmission lines have been constrained by sagging in high heat and swaying in high winds. Many lines have to be derated in extreme heat events, times when utilities need the power the most. To add more capacity, utilities have had to make towers taller and to add towers. TS Conductors allows utilities to refurbish their transmission corridors and expand their power capacity without costly tower replacements. More important than the lower costs are avoiding permitting for new transmission corridors, processes that can take more than 12 years. In one case, TS Conductors were used in Montana, cutting CAPEX costs 40% and shortening the project schedule to provide means to bring wind farms' power to market by 12 months.The conversation concludes with a look at the massive potential and market for advanced conductors. There are nearly a million circuit miles in America, and many more millions of conductor miles given three-phase configurations. And the conductors can be used for 18 million+ distribution lines as well. For the United States to be competitive in the global AI market, and to boost sustainability, TS Conductors offers a win-win solution.

Joyce Coffee heads up Climate Resilience Consulting, advising cities and states and others on resilience to climate change. She explains to Ted that she learned early on in Chicago, that the impacts of climate change can be unpredictable and fierce. After 750 souls there lost their lives there in a heat wave, mostly black and brown citizens, she knew that she was going to focus on adaptation, and making people more resilient to the ravages of climate change.Joyce grew up in Colorado and then moved to the East Coat for her education at Tufts -- to focus on public health -- and then MIT where she was a student of Urban Studies and Planning. She talks about her first career step, working for an engineering firm that worked on the Three Gorges Dam project in China. The firm was helping China leap from a second world country to a first world country. Joyce's work surrounded relocating well over a million people whose land would be flooded by the dam. That prepared her for advocacy of relocating communities and towns to steer clear of the most threatening aspects of climate change.Ted and Joyce dig in on adaptation, a sorry reality. Why not cut greenhouse gases and avoid the need for adaptation? Joyce's climate action planning in Chicago made clear that even a city with a progressive mayor and populous, was falling short of its climate goals. Like it or not, citizens there -- and globally -- will have to adapt to rising CO2. Thus for nearly ten years, Joyce's firm has been providing consulting for cities and states... helping them prepare for floods, fires, droughts, windstorms, coastal inundation, and sea level rise.The conversation shifts to the brand-new guide that Climate Resilience Consulting has developed for small businesses. Sadly, one in three small businesses in climate change events have suffered financial losses. Data confirms that 26% of small businesses have resilience plans and fully 94% feel that they are prepared. But in areas ravaged by climate change events, 40% of small businesses are forced out of business. Not good. Joyce explains as small businesses employ half of all American workers and contribute 40% of our nation's gross domestic product. By helping small businesses -- with a practical guide complete with checklists and AI prompts - they can be more profitable, able to fare far better than ill-prepared others. They also "bounce back" more quickly... having moved to higher ground, or away from extreme fire risk areas. They are part of what Joyce calls the solution set... ripe with innovation and smarts in determining how to get "more crop for the drop," and formulating new kinds of exterior house paint that is more resistant to wildfires. Joyce gets great satisfaction in helping business and communities prepare for and reap the benefits of her grandmother's oft-stated view that "a stitch in time saves nine."

Henk van Alphen was born and raised in Holland. After serving in the army, he sought adventure and travelled to Canada where he and his girlfriend took a float plane into the wilderness, built a cabin, hunted and fished, and lived off the land for a year. It took them seven days to walk back into civilization. Henk then went to college in Canada and began to work part time for a mining operation. His wilderness experience was a perfect match for the needs of mining developers who relied on "grubstakers" to trek into the wild, searching for mineral deposits to develop mines.Henk's career in mining began in Canada, and then led him to extensive works in Argentina, Chile, and other South American countries. He was agnostic about what minerals he sought to develop... working with coal, iron ore, gold, silver, copper, zinc, uranium, and ultimately lithium. He discusses the process of developing mine sites... noting his style and business model of working collaboratively with indigenous populations, making them part of the process which ultimately led to longer term successes.The conversation then shifts to lithium mining. Henk discusses where lithium is found - in brine, clay, and pegmatites - and how it is mined. His work involved extracting lithium from brine in "salars" or drying lakes. This was not well received because in arid countries, solar evaporation of the brine wastes precious water... so he and his colleagues have focused on DLE or Direct Lithium Extraction.Ted and Henk discuss the value of lithium, a mineral at the core of the clean energy revolution. Henk is articulate about the role of lithium in electric vehicles, and in laptops and cellphones. He notes China's preeminence in this field. While other battery chemistries are being examined, Henk notes that advances in lithium batteries are extending EV's range, making EVs clear winners in the automotive future. And he posits that lithium will be with us for some time even if other chemistries are promising and may ultimately replace lithium. That will be, he jokes, when he is six feet under!

Ted Flanigan first met Gene Rodrigues in 1998. Ted was Director of Efficiency Solutions at LADWP; Gene the Director of Energy Efficiency at Southern California Edison. For years, Gene was the voice and the face of energy efficiency, his sincere and happy demeanor on local television in the evenings. Ted and Gene begin with a reflection that Ted recounted of Gene's mother making sure that Gene knew that every morning that he had a choice about the day ahead. She made clear that you have the choice to be happy and productive each day.Gene was born in Japan to a U.S. serviceman and a Japanese mother. He grew up in Arizona before getting his law degree. In short order he realized that he wanted his law to be important, to make a difference to our society. He applied that vision to his work in regulatory law at Southern California Edison. He became Director of Efficiency, a role that expanded to include distributed energy resources of all kinds.The conversation shifts to Gene's deep appreciation for the field of efficiency... what he calls a foundational element for every utility to boost reliability and local economic development, to cut consumer costs and increase affordability, while protecting the environment at least cost. Gene stressed that California did it right, aligning good business sense with environmental concerns, and meeting the needs of all stakeholders. Calling it a group effort in California, he saluted leaders, John Bryson, Mike Peevey, Ralph Cavanagh, and Art Rosenfeld. They were successful in defining the role of efficiency. Gene explains that it's not a soft customer service, but part of the make-up of a reliable energy system.Gene left Edison in 2014 to work for the consulting firm ICF, noting that it was a company whose "moral compass was facing due north." When reflecting on his work there in the ICF Clean Energy division, Gene notes that he is most proud of the collaborations that he helped seed and nurture in meetings of cohorts. He found those forums most impactful. The conversation ends with a discussion of Gene's tenure at the U.S. Department of Energy where he served the Biden/Harris administration as Assistant Secretary of Energy in the Office of Electricity. While the DOE's Forrestal Building is stark, formidable, and intimidating, Gene stressed that he found the staff there to be the most committed group he has every worked with. His heart aches for the current administration's policy to decimate the role of these non-political, career servants. So then, asked Ted, "Are you optimistic?" Gene said no, he is not optimistic about the current changes, but he commented that when he was appointed, he was confirmed by a voice vote of unanimous consent, representing both sides of the aisle. Gene said, those on the R side are still there. While they knew that Gene came from a deep green background, importantly, they understood his common sense approach to energy management. And they are still there.

​Rebecca Tickell is an actor, singer, writer, producer, and environmental activist. Born in Ohio in a farming community, her roots are deep in agriculture. After moving to Vermont with her mother, at nine years old she became a movie star, playing a leading role in the Christmas-classic Prancer. She was instantly famous, appearing on the Today show and the Tonight show, among others. From that early age, she knew that she wanted to be a storyteller, using films to reach the masses.After a start in Hollywood, and a role in a horror film, Rebecca knew that she wanted to focus on films that make a difference. After seeing Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth, it became clear to her that she wanted to tell stories about the ravages of climate change and ways to save the Earth. Working with her husband Josh, they have produced over 20 climate-conscious films... reaching some 2 billion people.Their first films focused on oil... its devastating impacts... made crystal clear by their documentary on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico. Filming the accident poisoned Rebecca and solidified her commitment to caring for the planet.Influenced by a colleague, they shifted from oil to soil, highlighting the great value of soil in carbon sequestration.  Paul Hawken's Project Drawdown influenced Rebecca. By caring for the soil through regenerative agriculture, Hawken stated that the teraton of carbon that humans have released to the atmosphere since the industrial revolution could be captured.  She and Josh then bought a farm in Ventura County to practice what they preached.Rebecca discusses the basic tenets of regenerative agriculture, and how it can not only boost production, but address the vast areas of land globally that have been desertified. Their award-winning and broadly revered films -- Kiss the Soil and Common Ground -- have been rooted in rebuilding the soil. And they highlight successes, more profitable forms of agriculture, a greater diversity of products able to withstand droughts, fires, and flood. Farmers are finding that eliminating herbicides, pesticides, insecticides, and fungicides can save them $400 an acre... helping them break out of the vicious farming cycle of loans and risk and unhealthy produce.Today, Rebecca notes that about 5% of American agriculture is based on the principles of regeneration,. But this is ten times what it was five years ago... and projections suggest that 10% of American farming will be regenerative in the next few years. This is the tipping point... when the forces of logic in agriculture become unstoppable, both domestically and worldwide.Healthy soils lead to healthy food, which leads to healthy people. Our health, Rebecca makes clear, is a reflection of the health of our soil. The health of our guts is a reflection of the health of the microorganisms in our soil. This will happen acre by acre, inch by inch. For more information and to download Rebecca's films, visit bigpictureranch.com.

Clean Power Alliance is in its eighth year serving cities and unincorporated areas in Los Angeles and Ventura counties, providing power to over one million electric meters in 35 cities and county areas with a generating capacity of 3,400 MW. This episode of Flanigan's Eco-Logic features Ted Bardacke who has been its CEO throughout this tenure... creating the nation's largest community choice aggregator. CPA is also the nation's largest clean energy provider, and has been for the past two years. Its annual sales of 10 - 11 TWh, make it the fourth largest power provider in the State of California. Recently, it eclipsed San Diego Gas and Electric in power sales.Ted explains that CPA provides three tiers of rates, important choices for its members: About 10%of its members have selected its Lean Power rates, pricing that is about 2% less than the rates offered by Southern California Edison (SCE). Another 25% have selected the Clean Power rates that are equal in price but a better environmental product. Two-thirds of its members are on the 100% Green Power rate, paying about 6% more than they would if they were still buying power from SCE. These choices have been key to CPA's remarkably low opt-out rate (and its 93% participation rate)... meaning that members are pleased with the CPA products and have for largely have not returned to SCE.CPA is now mature and offering a suite of programs that enhance its services. Ted explains that there are two types of  programs: CPA offers programs for its member agencies that feature resilience for critical facilities as well as up to $250,000 grants for building electrification. CPA also offers a suite of customer programs... things like incentives for advanced battery energy storage and EV charger incentives. By working closely with its board of directors, Ted explains that CPA's services are locally rooted, and that CPA has a fine-grained understanding of its customers' needs.The conversation then shifts to the current presidential administration's decrees... retarding wind and solar. Fortunately CPA "resourced" its portfolio of green power early and at relatively low cost, putting the CCA in a strong financial position. But Ted explains that there is no question that the administration is changing the market for renewables... with less tax credits, policies making it harder to permit renewables, and the effects of tariffs on supply lines. Without question, these changes are impacting the "ecosystem" supporting renewables... making it harder for customers to "do the right thing" to control costs and drive down emissions. Ted notes that "California will do a good job of holding this ecosystem together" though "there will be some backsliding.'When asked about next steps for CPA, Ted flags directions including refining and expanding programs, exploring asset ownership, and working with customers to make them co-managers of electrification. Just as Californians have and will respond to water shortages, Ted wants CPA to lead a cultural shift such that electricity consumers are active participants.... driving down costs and emissions for all.

Rinaldo Brutoco has been at the helm of the World Business Academy for over 38 years. He founded it to focus on the role that businesses should play in solving humanity's greatest challenges. The Academy promotes the responsibility of business in relation to the moral, environmental, and social concerns of the day. To spur change, and where markets are not acting fast enough, Brutoco and his non-profit have spun off for-profit businesses... taking ideas and convictions and turning them into products and services to drive change.He and Ted dig into his education and the value of his law degree, what he calls a "set of tools" that have served him well. As a young lawyer he took on the largest of the baby bell telephone companies, and won a $132 million settlement at the California State Supreme Court. But as he lamented, he lost further lawsuits in the same case, disillusioning him about the value of lawsuits and the profession of law. At the urging of Ralph Nader, he formed the California Public Interest Law Center... to highlight issues of great importance in need advocacy. He explains that his mission has been about shifting human consciousness... and allowing businesses to lead the masses, building new business paradigms, replacing old-school business school metaphors of jungles and wars... with noble professions and stewardship. The conversation digs into nuclear power, a technology that he says will never have a viable role in our clean energy future. Small nuclear modular reactors, he explains, have all the same problems as large nuclear reactors. And despite millions of dollars of investment and the government's promotion, no businesses are buying it. Instead, hydrogen is the future... providing high temperature applications for cement and steel, powering locomotives and large 18-wheelers.The current administration, he implores, is doing everything wrong. "What isn't it doing to hurt green energy?" The United States has lost its leadership in solar and wind and now in hydrogen. While the Chinese have latched on to electrification, the White House has been pushing "drill baby drill." But Rinaldo explains that oil company executives, while taking advantage of government subsidies and tax breaks, see the writing on the wall too. They do not want to drill baby drill as markets for oil are falling. Every EV driver is stripping away the value of oil, and thus major investments in its infrastructure are becoming less and less valuable.The discussion ends with a focus on the electric power grid, and how it is fast becoming obsolete. It will be replaced, Rinaldo states, with honeycombed microgrids that are resolute in tapping solar and wind and geothermal, while reducing the need for costly and inefficient transmission that tie us to fossil fuels of waning importance and value. The 100% Clean Energy Moonshot he envisions for California, has no oil or nuclear... just resources that tap the sun's infinite and free energy. This he makes clear, is where wealth will be generated. This is where businesses will lead.

Robert Fortunato and his wife needed to expand their home in Hermosa Beach, California to welcome a child and incorporate two home offices, and they wanted it to be healthy and sustainable. After traveling the world, Robert wanted to incorporate best practices.. like the clever and complete use of materials in island countries demonstrated with coconuts in Sri Lanka, to passive solar design akin to Mesa Verde in Colorado, and non-toxic building material use in Denmark. As he and his wife planned their home remodel, Robert was struck by the black soot on his windowsills, and struck even more so when he learned that his own home was producing the soot... from cooking, water heating, his furnace, and his garaged car. He certainly didn't want that for his family. After employing a reputable green architect to create a healthy home, and having his vision suffer disappointment, Robert questioned authority. What he dubbed his "impossible home" became a labor of love, community involvement, and a demonstration of what is possible. Robert is a musician from Philadelphia. His dance band there became highly popular because Robert bought an early Mac computer and learned to market his gigs. His tenacity and entrepreneurial spirit earned him a spot at the Wharton School at University of Pennsylvania where he studied business. When he met Monica, who became his wife, they travelled the world visiting 20 countries with their eyes wide open. They learned many lessons that they wanted to incorporate in their home... and they did.The architect was fired. Robert used Sketch-Up to design a home with a major overhang to keep out the summer heat and keep the home cool. He ditched natural gas in favor of solar and an all-electric home. He turned to his community and found an abundance of talented folks all keen on pitching in. Fully 97% of the materials in the old home were repurposed, he cut his energy use by 70%, solar produced enough energy for his home and car, and he capped his natural gas line. All told, the project engaged 70 collaborators, and at its conclusion he'd had 5,000 visitors to witness his Living Building Challenge certified home, it garnered lots of press and a Los Angeles County green leadership award.Robert today runs ForStrategy Consulting, a firm that coaches leadership and innovation. He notes that he likes to "coach clients out of dark places!" In addition to playing his drums, being a band leader, and continuing his passion for music.. he provides green home and building decarbonization consulting for Southern California Edison and others... proving that if you have a vision, and you pursue it diligently, you can serve yourself and others with a healthy home and fulfilling lifestyle.

Bob Freling has been the Executive Director of the Solar Electric Light Fund (SELF) since 1997. Its mission is to design, fund, and implement solar energy solutions to benefit those in poor communities without access to the electricity grid, helping others to overcome energy poverty. SELF provides energy access in the developing world and has an impressive track record of providing more than 750 solar systems in over 20 countries. Bob Freling was born and raised in Dallas, Texas and was educated at Yale University where he earned his degree in Russian Studies. He has an intense appreciation of linguistics having studied Spanish, French, Russian, and Mandarin. After colleage, and when on assignment in Taiwan, he joined the antinuclear movement, and came upon clean solar energy and SELF. He never looked back, realizing the life-changing value of solar in the developing world.Bob discusses SELF's evolution from providing small household, 50-watt solar solutions -- which powered a few lights and a radio -- to the "whole village development model" which provides a broader spectrum of benefits including community water pumping, power for health clinics, streetlighting, and microenterprise centers. One memorable project was in the Valley of a Thousand Hills in South Africa. There, SELF installed a satellite dish and 2.4 kW solar array that powered a school which received 20 personal computers donated by Dell Computers. All of a sudden, that community had access not only to energy but to "the universe of information." Another project was in the African country of Benin where SELF supported water pumping and drip irrigation, and hydroponics, fostering solar market gardens run by women's farming cooperatives.Recently SELF has been promoting new forms of agriculture in Masai villages in Kenya... using water most judiciously and effectively. SELF is also focused on e-cooking using advanced electric cooking devices. Bob discusses the great value of the sun in supporting the energy-water-food nexus and is thankful for the support SELF has received from foundations, philanthropists, corporations, and international aid agencies. For his dedication and important works, Bob was honored to receive the King Hussein Leadership Award which was presented to him by Jordan's Queen Noor. For more information and to support SELF, please visit www.SELF.org.

Geoff Stapleton is considered "a force" in the solar industry, particularly in Australia and the Pacific Islands. So far, he has worked in 39 countries supporting solar... introducing standards and training to validate and shore up the solar industry. His work has been widely recognized, culminating recently in his recognition and award of the "Order of Australia" title.Geoff Stapleton began his career in off-grid solar in Australia, originally working for BP Solar Australia. He then formed his own company, Southern Solar Australia, that he managed for over 20 years, designing and installing solar systems primarily in New South Wales where he lives. Geoff's company promoted solar, wind, micro-hydro, and even diesel gen-sets. He explains that the Australian government had been subsidizing grid-connected power consumers for years, and when this cross subsidy was recognized, government subsidies for off-grid systems were introduced that boosted the installation of off-grid systems there. For two decades Geoff worked for, and continues to work for, Global Sustainable Energy Solutions (GSES). After serving as its managing director, he stepped down from that management role three years ago to direct GSES's international solar training program, and to carve out time to be Executive Officer of the Sustainable Energy Industries Association of the Pacific Islands. His life-long passion for promoting solar, and extending the great value of solar for Pacific Island nations, and his dedication to training and standards is clear. He recounts different experiences in Australia, the Pacific Islands, as well as in Africa and other countries.The discussion shifts to his views on the drivers for successful solar programs and policies in different countries. What makes a country a leader in solar deployment? Geoff explains that while cultures, traditions, policies, and programs are important parameters... it is the people on the ground that really make the difference. In some countries, there are passionate and dedicated and effective professionals are key to mobilizing the solar industry. Those are the champions that deliver success.The interview ends with a discussion of the online solar museum that Geoff and others have created, a great tribute to the rise of solar power, its remarkable evolution to being one of the world's most important sources of power, and certainly a major key to uplifting communities around the world.

In this episode of Flanigan's Eco-Logic, Ted interviews Julia Kintsch, the Principal and Senior Ecologist at Eco-Resolutions. Julia grew up in Boulder, Colorado where she was ingrained with a deep love of nature. She went to University of Colorado at Boulder and earned a degree in Environmental Conservation. Then, after serving in the Peace Corps in Africa, she enrolled at Duke University and earned a masters degree in Landscape Ecology. After working for The Nature Conservancy and other non-profits, she formed Eco-Resolutions with the goal of minimizing and mitigating the impacts to nature of human activity.For the past 16 years, Julia has supported a number of transportation agencies and other groups... finding ways to protect both wildlife and motorists from accidents. She explains that her work with transportation ecology is at the intersection of the human and natural environment. She is a collaborator no doubt, bringing together diverse interests to build underpasses and overpasses and other roadway mitigation measures such as motorist warnings activated by cameras that detect the presence of wildlife. Every project and community is unique, different terrain and different species --deer, elk, moose, bears, coyotes, and smaller animals -- require different forms of crossings. Ted chimes in with his experience dodging deer in Vermont and monkees on roadways in Malaysia. Julia then presents the results of a number of her projects in Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Virginia. The Colorado State Highway 9 wildlife protection project, she explains, is really a "system" made up of seven crossings, 10.8 miles of fencing, as well as 62 motion-sensor activated cameras at 49 locations to track the results of the protection systems. What years of careful evaluation has proven is a 90% decrease in accidents... a success rate that has earned significant recognition of the efficacy of careful and early planning, including both mitigation and crossing feasibility studies. Most recently, Julia has been consulting for Roaring Fork Safe Passages, working for its Director, Cecily DeAngelo, to prioritize wildlife crossings on Colorado State Highway 82, the busy transportation corridor that connects Aspen and Glenwood Springs.

John Belizaire heads up a company called Soluna. It's business model is to tap curtailed renewable capacity -- wind and solar -- and to use this previously wasted energy to power data centers. John explains that 30 - 40% of all wind and solar farms is curtailed... essentially "stranded " capacity. By utilizing this renewable energy is it monetized... boosting the economics of the renewables while powering data centers with green energy.John, a self-decribed nerd in his youth growing up in Brooklyn, New York, was always at the cutting-edge of computers, even as a young man selling floppy discs in school while others were selling magazines and running newspaper routes. He then went on to Cornell University where he earned two degrees in Computer Science. He then followed that up with an MBA fron the Wharton School at University of Pennsylvania. That was followed up by a career that began in finance... prior to tapping into the convergence of the megatrends of renewable power generation and artificial intelligence. The notion of co-locating data centers with renewable facilities first occurred to John when he was visiting a project in Morroco, Africa. How could excess wind there be used? At the time, block chaining and bitcoin mining was on the rise, and there were -- and still are major concerns with the electricity required for these functions. Now most of John's 800 MW of data centers is used for regenerative AI. Instead of building and repowering massive power plants - even nuclear installations -- for data centers, John envisions a future in which data centers are distributed. Soluna has found a logical niche... one which is green in both ways... both in power generation and in data center applications.

In this Crash Course, hosted by Sierra Flanigan, she and her father, Ted Flanigan, dig into the key issue related to the combustion of green hydrogen in peaker power plants. Ted learned of the adverse impact of burning hydrgoen last year from his friend and colleague, Jonathan Parfrey, Executive Director of Climate Resolve. Together they wrote a white paper to clarify the issue... the basis of this Crash Course.There has been understandable concern that to meet the Los Angeles mandate of 100% clean energy generation by 2035, that green hydrogen will have to be used and that it will likely have to be used in peaker plants to keep the power on. Early studies on the combustion of green hydrogen make clear the great benefit of this carbon-free fuel, but note that its combustion may actually increase nitrogen oxide emissions. Why? Hydrogen burns hotter than natural gas, amplifying the "endothermic reaction" whereby air -- loaded with nitrogen - is drawn into the heat where it forms nitrogen oxides.This finding of increased NOx, which is both a greenhouse gas, and a regional air pollutant causing smog and health issues, has alarmed the Los Angeles environmental justice community that had been looking forward to their neighborhoods' power plants being permanently closed. Now they face continued operations albeit with hydrogen, and the threat of local air quality hazards in the form of increased NOx.The paper digs into ways to mitigate NOx emissions from combustion turbines and there are many. Some are before a power plant's combustion chamber, some are inside the chamber, and others outside. Hydrogen burns hot, but it can be lean, lowering the temperature. Inside the fire are adjustments to reduce NOx, and 70 - 95% of the NOx can be captured in selective catalytic reduction systems.The Crash Course covers the big picture too. Electric utilities are electrifying mobility -- witness the EV explosion -- and decarbonizing buildings. These functions have huge CO2 and NOx reduction benefits. Furthermore, power plants contribute less than 1% of all NOx in our region. Bottom line: Los Angeles may well explore and can certainly justify limited green hydrogen combustion, until efficiency and fuel cells and other technologies can help meet peak demands on the hottest days of summer.Past Crash Courses have focused on microgrids, net energy metering, electric vehicles, vehicle to grid, microgrids, offshore wind, climate action, energy storage... and Ted's experimental solar home in Colorado. The father/daughter duo works again in this sixteenth Crash Course to take a somewhat complex subject, and to make it clear and easy and  interesting to digest.Flanigan's Eco-LogicEpisode 225June 30, 2025★ Episode details: https://share.transistor.fm/s/63c98026★ Additional episodes: https://flanigansecologic.transistor.fm/© 2025 Flanigan's Eco-Logic

Cecily DeAngelo read an article in the New York Times about wildlife crossings, and ever since, she has been laser-focused on developing wildlife crossings in the Roaring Fork Valley of Colorado. She grew up there and has witnessed first hand the carnage along Pitkin County's roadways... dead bears, deer, elk, rabbits, and more and more moose. These vehicle wildlife accidents decimate wildlife in the Roaring Fork Valley and are responsible for 30% of vehicle accidents there.  What Cecily learned is that the Roaring Fork Valley, which runs from Aspen to Glenwood Springs, Colorado, is bisected in terms of wildlife and biodiversity. Highway 82, which runs parallel to the Roaring Fork River, has caused a dangerous divide for wildlife. To address this she formed Roaring Fork Safe Passages, a citizen-led coalition that raises awareness about the opportunity to build wildlife crossings, either overpasses or underpasses. Supported initially by the Aspen Skiing Company, she and her colleagues developed a "Prioritization Study" that ranks sections of the highway for safe crossings. Now, working with the communities in the Valley, and hopefully with the Colorado Department of Transportation, she is working raising funds to build overpasses in key areas, funneling wildlife in specific areas thanks to well-designed fencing for safe crossings.The podcast also features Cecily's determination to get involved in politics. Inspired by the former president of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern, who gave birth when in office, Cecily is passionate about urging young citizens -- reproductive age and underrepresented -- to take action and to get involved with school boards, commissions, and councils. In 2024, she ran for Snowmass Village City Council and won, expanding its female majority... working on key issues such as community planning, affordable housing, and sustainability. Despite the challenging juggling act of raising a family, managing Roaring Fork Safe Passages, and serving her community on City Council, Cecily is excited and fulfilled by positively influencing the region where she lives, and encourages others to follow suit.

In this episode of Flanigan's Eco-Logic, Ted welcomes Catherine Sands, Director of Fertile Ground, to the podcast. After years of working in development and promoting special fund-raising concerts for Natural Resources Defense Council, Catherine moved north from New York City to the Berkshires of Massachusetts to raise a family and live closer to the land. There, she became involved with schools and asked a very basic question: Why do local schools have such lousy food?These questions led Catherine to a career working with schools and communities, linking education and applied learning to food systems. She sought to emulate the edible schoolyard program that Alice Waters created in Berkeley, California. There, students were learning growing food in their schoolyards, gaining an appreciation of healthy food, and developing pathways for lifelong wellness. This inspired Catherine to work with local schools in Massachusetts, working on applied learning, food procurement, and linking local schools to local farms... all to bring healthy, pesticide-free food, and "scatch-made" meals to students. She explains that much of her work involves diligent networking and matchmaking to support food policy councils, school districts' food procurement professionals, and local farms.Determined to better understand food systems and food policy, and to undo the food inequity she found distressing, Catherine earned a graduate degree from University of Massachusetts to advance Fertile Ground and its work with schools and communities. Since then, Fertile Ground has provided food system evaluations with recommendations for school districts on how to best tap Farm Bill funds to advance healthy food. Fertile Ground develops approaches and programs and gardens. She then joined the U Mass faculty where she has inspired and guided hundreds of students on a similar mission, work that she continues... driven by passion and fulfillment in her successes. "What's in your garden this spring?" Ted asks Catherine in closing. She responds that, yes, "It's planting time. The greens are going in. Tomatoes too." And not only in her own garden: She relishes in having fostered and continuing to support hundreds of gardens at schools and within the communities that she serves. Catherine makes clear that providing healthy food at schools and in our communities is challenging, but more so, it is rewarding as it nurtures young minds and healthy souls and organically supports communities.

​Grant Gunnison is the founder and CEO of Zero Homes, a Denver-based firm that specializes in electrification of homes in Colorado, Minnesota, Illinois, and California. Grant gave up his post-MIT work at NASA and returned to Colorado to run his family's construction business, shifting its focus to tackle climate change. He recognized the need to decarbonize some 60 million American homes, with 4 - 5 measures per home. What he did then was revolutionize the retrofit process, uncovering efficiencies to drive down costs and to boost the customer experience. Grant, an enthusiastic soul, has clearly been a beneficial disruptor!Zero Homes is unique in many ways: Its primary focus is on electrifying homes... their space and water heating, cooking, etc, to help solve the climate crisis. He works to upgrade electrical panels to make homes ready for heat pumps, EVs, and solar systems. Of note, Zero Homes has reformed the front end of all construction processes... the process of bidding on construction jobs. Zero Homes provides interested parties with an online tool. It gives homeowners some homework... wiping out the inefficiency of multiple firms coming to the property to analyze and compete for opportunities for jobs and savings.Grant came up with the business model after working on his family's construction business. Free quotes cost all contractors and their customers time and money. By using Zero Homes' online tool, homeowners take photos and videos of their home and provide other pertinent data Then Zero Homes builds a 3D model of the home and identifies and prices measures for decarbonization. Zero Homes collapses the sales cycle; it also provides the design and quality assurance services. As a licensed general contractor, Zero Homes maintains a roster of vetted subs who complete the installations. Zero's process is faster and more efficient, and the result is projects that cost ~10% less while improving both the contractor and customer experience.

​In this episode of Flanigan's Eco-Logic, Ted interviews Susan Gladwin. She's just finished a 2.5 year role in the U.S. Department of Energy's Loan Programs Office (LPO). The office, under the leadership of Jigar Shah, had an amplified mandate to foster innovative companies launching energy innovations. The Inflation Reduction Act boosted the LPO's budget from $40 billion to $400 billion making it the world's largest green bank.Jigar Shar brought Susan and other professionals to Washington to help with the LPO's surge of activity, what they all knew was a moment in time. Susan's role at the LPO was in supporting loans for Clean Energy Title 17 projects... focusing on virtual power plants. The key was helping companies on a "bridge to bankability," helping promising firms with solid technologies in their execution of business plans to scale up and seek conventional financing.Since leaving the LPO, Susan has been on assignment with Planetary Boundaries, a UK-based organization with leading, global sustainability professionals that has established nine principles/indicators of planetary well-being. Alas, there are still many red-light indicators, but a framework has been established that is helping countries in their policies and practices.In this episode, Susan shares aspects of her career and what motivates her: She was educated in science and information technology, worked for Apple on the launch of I-Tunes, and she developed AutoDesk's clean energy design integration. She's now moved up from Washington and is working globally, keen on applying her aspiration of accelerating the adoption of clean energy through capital and creativity.