Four Thought

In the final episode of Four Thought, Sheila Cook reflects on what she has learned from producing it for eleven years.Sheila, who left the BBC in 2022, produced around 150 episodes on Four Thought, and in this reflection on the power of hope she looks back at some of the talks which have reminded her that - amidst bad news - we are often surrounded by remarkable people, doing remarkable things.Producer: Giles Edwards

Three years on from her first appearance on Four Thought, Dr. Dina Rezk returns to Four Thought. Her first talk was about the shocking and unexpected death of her mother; this time, as she describes another bereavement, the tone is unexpectedly positively, even exultant, as Dina reflects on the difference between the two experiences.Producer: Giles Edwards

Farrah Jarral explains why she believes we need to put care at the centre of our society.Sharing a story about how her beloved grandmother's lifetime of caring for others - family members and others - meant many people wanted to care for her when the need arose, Farrah reflects on what care does for us as individuals.Producer: Giles Edwards

Ted Harrison argues that only art can truly capture the essence of spirituality.Ted is a former journalist who, close to turning sixty, decided to turn away from using words and instead chose art. It was, he says, because he realised the limitations imposed by words, and the way in which art can capture the ineffable, the spiritual.Producer: Giles Edwards

Martin Warde is the first Irish Traveller to become a professional comedian. In this talk he recounts his early years travelling before his family settled down and he and his brothers attended school in Galway. His school days weren't easy, he and other traveller boys were treated differently. One teacher however inspired him to pursue his dream of being a performer. Now as a writer and comedian focussing on Traveller life Martin examines the surprising ways people in which respond to his material - both travellers and the settled community. Martin argues it's important to engage in comedy that can make you feel uncomfortable.

Sarah Williams always wanted to become a mum. But the more she learnt about the climate crisis, the more she questioned her decision. In this talk Sarah explains why she's chosen not to have children in order to save the planet, and how she encourages others to think twice about it. She says that she is not anti-child but that overpopulation is something that should concern everyone. Sarah also points out there are more sustainable ways to start a family, like adoption.

Martin Hibbert's life changed forever in 2017. He survived the Manchester Arena bomb but was left with life-changing injuries. Now a wheelchair user, Martin says he doesn't dwell on his old life but instead embraces his new one. He says he's determined to turn an act of terror into a force for good, and now campaigns to make sure others with spinal injuries receive the support that they need.

Meg Sunshine, a 21 year old professional gamer is dedicated to becoming one of the best in the industry. Gaming is her life. But her journey has not been an easy one. She’s experienced threats of sexual violence from male gamers and has frequently felt unsafe online. She’s determined to bring about change however. In this episode she argues gaming needs to tackle its toxic culture, encourage a more diverse range of players and keep girls gaming.

Philosopher Virginie Simoneau-Gilbert describes a change in how philosophers are beginning to think about the moral capacity of animals, and asks us to think differently about our pets. Beginning with her own pet dog showing compassion for her when she is injured, Virginie explains why new research may fundamentally affect some of what we have long held to be true about animals.Producer: Giles Edwards.

Author Rachel Genn describes her fascination with regret. Rachel tells stories of regret, beginning in her earliest childhood. “An early adopter of regret,” she says, “I was displaying the prodigy’s irritating flair for it.” Producer: Giles Edwards

Anna Wardley argues that we should better support children whose parents kill themselves.Beginning her talk in the dark waters of the English Channel as she attempts to swim non-stop around the Isle of Wight, Anna describes darkness of a different kind as she explains the need for children whose parents kill themselves to be better supported. And that should start with counting them.Producer: Giles Edwards

Author Joe Nutt argues we need to fight back against what he calls 'linguistic piracy'.Joe is concerned that activists are challenging the commonly-understood meaning of words. "The trust which becomes naturally embedded over time in any shared language, is under threat," he argues, and now "the English language itself is creaking under the strain of a sustained barrage of abuse".Producer: Giles Edwards

Kasmira Kincaid opens up about the challenges of her childhood and her experiences of the care system. Despite her many personal challenges Kasmira found solace in learning and successfully graduated from Corpus Christi College. She now argues that a good education should be a basic right for everyone, no matter of age, background, or educational attainment, and that the current exam system is arbitrary.“Like most winners I never really questioned the rules of the game I was playing. But exams are some of the most artificial activities human beings can engage in. They are, after all, a closed system: the exam board sets the marking criteria, which most schools then teach to, and their students are judged by how well they fulfilled the marking criteria the exam board set.”

After an incident at school which shattered Lizi Jackson-Barrett’s confidence in her appearance, she spent much of her life chasing what society thinks of as beautiful. Only when she suffered from Alopecia at the age of forty, did she find confidence in herself and her beauty. She urges society to question engrained ideas of what beauty is.“I can’t remember ever crying as much as I did in those first months of being bald. I felt a grief that was deeper than any I’d known before. Everything I’d ever done felt so pointless: I’d spent my entire life trying to make myself look “right” and now I was further from that goal than ever.”Image Credit: The Woman And The Wolf

Crime writer Amit Dhand shares his experiences of growing up in Bradford in the 1980s. His family actively integrated with the local community.“We simply had to integrate; to talk to the locals, to create friendships. Sharing language and food was a key part of this process. It wasn’t optional – it was vital and it is how Bradford succeeded in creating a new future.”But Amit argues some of that willingness to mix has now been lost. In recent times an abandoned redevelopment project known locally as the “hole in the ground" dominated Bradford city centre for years and he says it set life in the city back. Different communities no longer had a space to congregate. Integration is, he argues, an "active process" and in this talk Amit offers solutions from sports, arts and health to get it back on track.

Former Love Island contestant Malin Andersson reflects on how reality TV changed her outlook on life and her relationship with social media. In an honest and open talk, Malin shares what led her to go on reality TV, her experience of eating disorders, how grief forced her to examine her relationship with social media, and what she learnt from being on reality TV.“Once you’re in the limelight your whole life is out there for people to see and comment on and it isn’t easy. You feel like you are constantly comparing yourself to others, you have to do more – and if you aren’t booking work or TV you feel like a failure.”Image Credit: Kimmie Hoo

Novelist Richard Owain Roberts shares a story about a friendship.Producer: Giles Edwards

Chloe Juliette welcomes the movement for those with 'lived experience' of public services to share their stories, but says more stories are needed.In this extraordinary talk Chloe, a social researcher who has experienced the care system and been invited many times to share those experiences with professionals, takes us inside one of those talks. She tells us the stories she shares with professionals, and explains why she feels now is the time for more voices to join the conversation.Producer: Giles Edwards.

Jonathan Evershed argues that we should re-imagine how we think of the Irish Sea.Jonathan is a political anthropologist who has been studying the relationship between Ireland and his native Wales since Brexit. And he believes it's time to start thinking of the Irish Sea not just as a space between the two, but as an important place itself - a place with its own history and natural history.In this talk, Jonathan invites us to join him on cliffs, in ports and on ferries, looking at the Irish Sea, as he asks us to think differently about it.Producer: Giles Edwards

Laura Simpson argues that online meetings have good for individuals and companies, and that we should be wary of returning to the status quo.The meeting, says Laura, is the fundamental unit of white collar working life. And in the last couple of years it's undergone a revolution - out have gone the suits, glass tables and rigid hierarchy; in have come moments of vulnerability, the hand raise function, and unannounced visits from children. It's happened in plain sight, but its consequences have been little discussed. Laura is a Global Director at advertising and marketing company, McCann Worldgroup. As she shares stories from some of the meetings she has been in, she explains why she believes this change has created a re-imagining of what meetings could be, and a rebalancing of power within them - with more people, and in particular more junior people and those who previously felt marginalised, empowered to contribute. Producer: Giles Edwards

Criminologist Dr Laura Bui wants us to ask the right questions when it comes to crime. The popular genre of ‘true crime’ may be popular but is it helping us better understand the origins of crime?We turn to crime novels, film and documentaries to compare ourselves to both victims and perpetrators. How different are we? This genre loves to tell us the ‘origin stories’ of infamous criminals to tell us of their childhoods and often past traumas - as if to explain their future actions. But this can have the effect of erasing the victims, diminishing their memory in some way. But is the habit of asking ‘why’ a criminal committed a crime and not ‘how’ they got to the point of becoming a criminal flawed? We take one criminal out of the public only to have them replaced by another - Laura argues asking ‘how’ helps to finally break this cycle.Presenter - Olly Mann Producer- Jordan Dunbar Editor - Tara McDermott SM- Rod Farquhar

Dr Layla McCay asks us to think again about how our buildings and towns can both benefit and harm our mental health. As a trained psychiatrist and head of the Centre for Urban Design she has brought together the research around this topic for the first time.Looking at how plants and water can reduce the risk of psychosis and ‘bumping’ places, where people can casually meet to form connections and potentially ease depression.Layla’s work as the Director of the NHS Confederation has convinced her of the importance of design and physical health but also how little attention has been paid to it’s impact on the mind. She says the concept of ‘restorative cities’ - those that help heal or calm the mind are what we should be aiming for. Designing places that help counter loneliness, improve connections and keep depression at bay. Post Pandemic can we redesign our surroundings to support a happier and healthier life? Presenter Olly Mann Producer- Jordan Dunbar Editor- Tara McDermott

Watchmaker Rebecca Struthers shares her passion for the art and science of horology. She warns that this traditional skill and its allied trades to make and restore watches, are endangered in Britain unless we make it easier for the next generation to be trained in them. "When well-made objects are cared for, it's a cycle of relationships that can span centuries. The oldest family watch I've worked on was five generations and 250 years old. When working on an object that symbolises the passing of time itself, I'm acutely aware of the fact that I've become a moment in the history of this watch, a moment in time for an object that was made centuries before my birth and will live on centuries after I'm gone." Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook Production Coordinator: Janet Staples Editor: Penny Murphy

James Helm gives a practical guide to dealing with grief and sudden single parenthood. Following the early death of his wife Charlotte, he found himself without the love of his life and single-handedly bringing up their three sons. He shares what he has learnt from personal experience - "what helps and what hurts". "People may think bereavement is in the past when in fact it is very much in the present. And it's really not a weakness to signal when things are tough, or when sadness or loneliness gather like clouds. In my view, it's a sign of real strength."Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook Production Coordinator: Janet Staples Editor: Penny Murphy

Ai-jen Poo argues that we should all value caring, and carers.Ai-jen, a MacArthur Fellow, is Director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance, an advocacy organisation in the United States representing domestic workers, many of them carers. In this powerful, intimate talk, she tells the story of how two of her grandparents' very different experiences when they needed carer emphasised the importance of valuing caring. Producer: Giles Edwards

Beth Stevens talks about the brain cells most people have never heard of, and suggests what they might have to teach us.Beth is a neuroscientist and associate professor at Harvard Medical School, who in 2015 was awarded a MacArthur Fellowship - the so-called 'genius grant' - for her work on microglial cells. In this talk she describes the connections between her research and her own family history, and explains why these cells - for so long overlooked in favour of neurons - may be the key to understanding much about the brain we don't yet know.Producer: Giles Edwards

Tara Munroe reveals what she learned when she rescued some badly damaged paintings which were due to be thrown out.Tara is an arts curator and researcher. Ten years ago she found a pile of paintings marked with the words 'for disposal'. She was immediately intrigued, and as she began to research them, she became more and more drawn into their story, and how it connected with her own history. Now, a decade on, she is hoping to return them to the gallery walls, where they belong.Producer: Patrick Cowling.

Philippa Greer discusses the imprisonment of people convicted of genocide.Philippa is a human rights lawyer who has worked around the world. In this powerful talk she tells the story of a visit to West Africa to prepare for the funeral of a man who had recently died in prison. This man had been convicted of genocide, but Philippa reveals that many such prisoners will eventually be released, and what that suggests to her about the use of prison as a response to the most serious crimes against humanity.Producer: Patrick Cowling.

Nicola Reindorp, who once doubted her own abilities to be a CEO, says we should rehabilitate doubt as a strength rather than a weakness in leaders. "I'd seen my own doubts as negative, disqualifying me from leadership. I had seen others believe the same. But, I asked myself, aren't the best leaders not the ones that say they have all the answers, but those who know they don't? Not those who say they see it all, but those who ask whose perspective is missing? Rather than a deficiency to be hidden, maybe doubt should be seen as a power to be harnessed?" Nicola Reindorp is CEO of Crisis Action Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Eva Hnizdo reflects on the impulses which drive people to emigrate - or not, drawing on her Czech Jewish family's experience of the Holocaust and her own as a political asylum seeker. "Whenever members of my family thought about emigrating but didn't actually leave, they made a mistake, sometimes paying for it with their lives. In my case, some might say I made a mistake not to stay. Was it worth the struggle?" Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila CookEva Hnizdo is a former GP and author of "Why Didn't They Leave?"

Robyn Travis believes that labelling children as criminals is counterproductive in the fight against violence. He says they need to be freed from the mentality that keeps them as "prisoners to the streets". "It deeply saddens me that the media, film makers and rappers alike see a beneficial gain in telling stories which further criminalise the youth of today and yesterday without losing sleep. I don't see gang members, I see prisoners to the streets." He believes in prevention rather than intervention, calling for primary school children to be taught how to avoid conflict, and for parents to stop saying, "if someone hits you, hit them back". Robyn Travis is the author of Prisoner to the Streets, Mama Can't Raise No Man and Freedom from the Streets Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Laura Dockrill describes her frightening experience of post partum psychosis after giving birth to her son. She calls for a wider conversation about risks to parental mental health and for help to be open to everyone. "This almost invisible illness was an assassin. An apparition that nobody else could see." "Silence only inflames the symptoms, the stigma and creates an ideal culture for a mental illness to thrive. Shame, judgment and fear follow fast in the wake and it's a perfect storm, one that can unfortunately end in tragedy. But it doesn't have to. Post-Partum Psychosis is treatable." Laura Dockrill is an award winning author, illustrator and performance poet. "What Have I Done?" is her memoir on motherhood and mental health. Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Angela Frazer-Wicks tells her extraordinary story of being a mother.Years ago, Angela's sons were taken into care and adopted, and in this powerful talk she describes her heartbreak as they gradually lost contact and she lost faith in the future. But as she explains, with support from some very unexpected places, Angela is now in a position to help other women and families going through similar experiences.Producer: Giles Edwards

Simon Morden argues that we should resist the privatisation of space.Simon is a scientist and science fiction writer, and in this talk he reflects on what science fiction has taught us. "We know about the hubris of science through Frankenstein, we know of totalitarian state-controlled media through 1984, and we also know it’s a terrible idea to break quarantine protocols through the film Alien," he says. "Science fiction doesn’t prevent us from doing those things, but we can’t say we didn’t know what the results would be." Simon is concerned that science fiction has also shown us a dark future where the coming era of space exploration - and the exploitation of extra-terrestrial objects - is dominated by private companies. And having recently written a non-fiction book about the natural history of Mars, this is a future he is keen to avoid.Producer: Giles Edwards.

Jessica Barker argues that we should rediscover overlooked sculptures of women.She didn't know it at the time, but as a child Jessica spent part of every Christmas day looking at a famous medieval monument. Later, when she became an expert in medieval art, she was angered by the phrase 'and his wife', so often associated with such monuments. Yet as she dug into the stories behind the women depicted in them, she discovered a more surprising, more subversive, and more interesting story.Producer: Giles Edwards

Steven Dowd's life changed in an instant one spring morning in 2016. In this inspiring talk, Steven describes what happened, and how a promise to his wife enabled him to regain control of the change - and his life.Producer: Giles Edwards

Professor Atul Shah draws on his background as a Jain to argue that we need a healthier relationship with finance: people often feel afraid of money matters because they lack knowledge and are prey to unplanned debt. He calls for more teaching about finance in schools and in the home, plus a more balanced attitude to consumption. “When money was invented, it was supposed to serve society – instead today it has become our master.” Professor Atul Shah is Professor of Accounting and Finance at City University and the author of several books on finance and ethics, including "Jainism and Ethical Finance" and "Reinventing Accounting and Finance Education – For a caring, inclusive and sustainable planet."Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cookhttp://www.diverseethics.com/atul-blog/ethical-finance-a-jain-perspective https://www.taxjustice.net/2017/11/21/reforming-multi-billion-dollar-accounting-finance-education-industry/ Photo credit: @vintagesunglassez

Joe Friedman, who grew up with deaf parents, reflects on what it means to hear. As a young psychotherapist, treating one particularly challenging client taught him the difference between listening that was only "skin deep" and really hearing someone else's pain. It helped him to lose his "deaf ears". "I assumed, like my parents, that being Hearing meant you could communicate, listen and hear - naturally. On reflection, of course, this is obviously idiotic. We all know people whose ears function perfectly well, but who don't hear a word you say!" Joe Friedman is a psychotherapist and author of children's books. He is also the author and performer of a one man show "Deaf Ears - How I Learned to Hear" https://camden.ssboxoffice.com/performances/deaf-ears-how-i-learned-to-hear/Presenter: Olly Mann. Producer: Sheila Cook

Sian Ejiwunmi-Le Berre argues against the tyranny of positivity which forms part of a culture of "performative wellness", which she says sees illness as a form of personal failure. When extrapolated to other aspects of human life, this attitude is a "poison to society".Presenter; Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Leon Bosch reflects on the power of classical music to transform lives, beginning with his own. He overcame the obstacles of racism in apartheid era South Africa to study the classical double bass. Despite encountering prejuduce in the UK, too, after moving here to study, he went on to build a distinguished international career as a virtuoso performer, conductor and teacher. He is currently Professor of double bass at Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance and director of the chamber ensemble he founded, I Musicanti. "Classical music had been my ticket out of the ghetto. It dissolved the psychological prison of poverty and oppression, and it catapulted me into a full and meaningful participation in human society. Now it was my responsibility to utilise the power of classical music to transform other people's lives and, perhaps, society itself." Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Luke Rigg argues that more young magistrates will improve justice.When Luke told his friends and family he wanted to be a magistrate aged just 20, they all had one question: "Why are you doing that, Luke?" In this talk Luke takes us inside the magistrates' courts where for six years he has been convicting, sentencing, and acquitting offenders, many of his own age, to explain how he answers that question.Luke is introduced by host Olly Mann.Producer: Giles Edwards.

Tracey Follows explores how virtual assistants can help us survive after death.Tracey is a futurist who has become fascinated by the memories of people after they die, and in this talk she asks who and what is being memorialised - is it us, or something else altogether?Producer: Giles Edwards

Dr Shona Minson argues that we shouldn't punish children if their parents go to prison.Years ago, as a barrister specialising in care cases, Shona was familiar with the Children Act, and in particular its central principle: that the child's best interests are the paramount consideration of the court. And so when she was asked to write about what happened to children when their mums were imprisoned, she assumed something similar would apply, or at least that she could find some research about what happened to them. She was shocked to find almost nothing, and even more shocked when she started doing the research herself.In this talk she describes some the change she believes is needed - from major institutions thinking properly about the problem, to the judgement children face from their schoolmates' parents, and how she works with judges and other criminal justice professionals to achieve it.Shona is introduced by host Olly Mann.Producer: Giles Edwards

Dr. Tamsin Ellis is a GP who looks for ways to improve her patients' health and the environment.Welcoming us into her consulting room to meet her patients, Tamsin describes her journey to climate activism, and why she's convinced that looking for 'double wins' is the way forward. From giving a lecture about the environment to a sea of faces all sipping coffee from plastic cups, to the challenges of winning over already hard-pressed colleagues, in this witty talk Tamsin describes the realities of climate activism on the NHS frontline. As she prescribes health interventions with positive side-effects for the planet, she offers a new way to talk about climate change.Tamsin is introduced by host Olly Mann.Producer: Giles Edwards

Jak Beula says statues and memorials matter because they show who a society values. His organisation is working to erect more to honour people of colour, including a new statue which he has designed for Windrush and Commonwealth nurses and midwives at the Whittington Hospital in London. "It helps to improve equality and inclusion, to uncover the stories of historic characters who have positively impacted Britain, but for whatever reason remain unknown, unsung and unheralded." Dr Jak Beula is the founder and CEO of Nubian Jak, an African and Caribbean community organisation.Presenter: Olly Man Producer: Sheila Cook

Helena Goodwyn interrogates the near universal practice of giving children their father’s - not their mother’s - surname. She and her husband plan to buck the trend in a stand against structural inequality when their first baby is born. "We have the feminist movement to thank for many of the changes that have led us to our present moment, where broadly speaking, British society no longer stigmatises people based on whether they were conceived in or outside of marriage but in the case of cohabiting heterosexual couples the giving of the father's surname remains the norm." Dr Helena Goodwyn is Vice-Chancellor's Senior Research Fellow in English Literature at Northumbria University. Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Sergeant Rhys Rutledge of the Welsh Guards explains why he thinks people deserve a second chance after turning his own life around from convicted drug dealer to successful soldier. He's set up a project with the Army's backing called Defeat Don't Repeat to help prisoners and young people who might be at risk of offending to stay away from crime. Through presentations and a residential training course involving physical challenges and teamwork, he aims to communicate a message of hope. "I want to engage with people who share a similar background to me, who may have found themselves on the wrong side of the law and have now managed to turn their life around and move on to a successful path. This would demonstrate how it's possible to move on in life and make the ultimate change for the better." Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Dina Rezk describes how she made a friend of fear following the murder of her mother. The trauma of her mother's violent sudden death risked leaving her with a crippling sense of fear which she called "the beast". Over time she has found an ultimately life affirming way to live with it. "My life force had to match its presence. I had to exist in conversation with it rather than deny or repress its existence." Dr Dina Rezk is Associate Professor and lecturer in Middle Eastern History at the University of Reading. She is also a Radio 3 New Generation Thinker. Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook

Alastair Hendy explains why he thinks we've lost our food culture and how we can rediscover it. Remembering the seventies when convenience food was less available and it was normal to cook from scratch, he urges us to understand more about where our food comes from and calls for basic cookery skills to be taught again in schools. Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cookaghendy.com

Penny Wincer reflects on what it means to be a carer, drawing on her own and other people’s experiences. Especially during the pandemic when support services have been unavailable, it’s time, she argues, for society to take care of the carers. Presenter: Olly Mann Producer: Sheila Cook