Leading Complexity

In this special episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, things take an unexpected turn — The host Tomas hands over the interviewing part to Portia Tong, who interviews him instead.Together, they explore the story behind the Leading Complexity Program — how a simple idea about creating a new kind of organizational “operating system” grew into a global learning movement.Tomas shares how conversations with thought leaders like David Marquet, Stephen Bungay, and Dave Snowden sparked the first event, and how it has evolved into a space for deep learning, inspiration, and authentic connection.You’ll hear reflections on:The origins and purpose of the Leading Complexity programWhy sharing knowledge freely matters more than everWhat participants gain from learning directly from the world’s top thinkersThis episode is full of warmth, curiosity, and honest reflection —a rare behind-the-scenes look at what drives the people behind the Leading Complexity program.

Listen to Linda Rising on Why Smart Groups Can Make Dumb DecisionsIn this episode, we welcome back Linda Rising, researcher and author known for her work on decision-making, groups, and organizations.We explore why bringing very smart people together doesn’t always lead to smart outcomes – and how science shows that homogeneous teams often make worse decisions, limit innovation, and fall into dangerous group dynamics.Linda shares scientific insights on:- How to build groups for better results- Why diversity is a strength – even when it feels uncomfortable- How our Stone Age brains still shape decision-making today- The risks of “culture fit” and why sameness is a trapAn eye-opening conversation that challenges the way we think about leadership, teamwork, and decision-making.Listen and reflect: how can you create more intelligent groups in your own organization?

In this episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, Michael Göthe sits down with James Priest, co-developer of Sociocracy 3.0 and one of the world’s leading facilitators of collaboration and decision making.We explore how leaders can act with more purpose in today’s complex organizations, and why misaligned purposes often create wasted energy and frustration. James introduces the Purposeful Action Model — a simple yet powerful lens to:✅ Improve sensemaking and meaning making✅ Align local actions with organizational purpose✅ Reduce waste and increase coherence across all levels✅ Navigate complexity with more consciousness and intentionalityWe also touch on the evolution of Sociocracy 3.0, the pitfalls of one-size-fits-all agile transformations, and the role of AI in supporting organizational coherence.🔹 Full program details: https://leadingcomplexity.com/program/🔹 Join us at Leading Complexity 2025: https://leadingcomplexity.com📅 James’ live session: October 23, 2025📍 Plus: meet him in person at Crisp, Stockholm, November 5–7, for the S3 Practitioner Course.👉 Subscribe to the channel for more interviews with world-class thinkers on leadership, complexity, and the future of organizations.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, Michael Göthe sits down with Sam Isaacson — executive coach, consultant, author, and founder of AI Coach.Sam is a pioneer in applying AI to coaching and leadership. In the conversation, he shares: • How he first predicted the potential of GPT-3 for coaching back in 2020• What’s possible (and what’s not) with AI coaches today • The difference between human presence and AI capability in coaching • How AI can supercharge learning and development without losing the human touch • Practical examples of using AI to automate tasks, create “virtual colleagues,” and support team collaboration✨ Sam is also a speaker in the Leading Complexity 2025 program with his session:👉 Using AI to Supercharge Learning & Development. If you’re curious about the future of leadership, coaching, and human-AI collaboration, this episode is for you.📌 Learn more and join the program: https://leadingcomplexity.com📌 Connect with Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samisaacson📌 Try Sam’s free AI coaching platform: https://ai.coach.chat

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, Tomas Björkholm sits down with Nils Janse, co-founder of Bandley AI, author of "AI Agents: Multiplying Human Potential by Adopting Generative AI"Nils has trained thousands of people and worked with over 200 companies to help them adopt generative AI. In this conversation, he shares:* Why leaders should lean in to AI instead of hesitating* The difference between automation and augmentation – and why augmentation is key* How AI agents can empower employees to become “superheroes” instead of replacements* What leaders need to rethink to succeed in the AI era* How decision-making will change when humans collaborate with AI agentsIf you want to understand how AI will transform leadership, teamwork, and organizations, this is a must-watch!

SummaryIn this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, Michael Göthe interviews Jurgen Appelo, an influential figure in management and agile practices. They discuss Jurgen's journey from focusing on management to exploring the intersection of AI and human collaboration. Jurgen introduces the concept of 'networked agentic organizations' and emphasizes the importance of understanding the human angle in AI integration. The conversation delves into the evolving role of leadership in AI-driven environments, the complexities of modern work, and the future of agile practices. Jurgen shares insights on how AI can enhance team dynamics and the necessity for leaders to adapt to these changes.TakeawaysJurgen Appelo has evolved from focusing on management to exploring AI's impact on organizations.AI is reshaping the role of managers and leaders in organizations.The concept of 'networked agentic organizations' combines human and AI collaboration.Leaders must distinguish between managing humans and machines.AI can handle complicated tasks, leaving complex problems for humans.Team sizes are shrinking as AI becomes integral to collaboration.Leaders need to develop skills to handle complex, unsolvable problems.AI can provide real-time feedback on team dynamics and individual contributions.The future of agile practices will focus on speed and adaptability rather than rigid structures.AI will push organizations towards greater agility and responsiveness.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, Tomas Björkholm sits down with Dr. Jeff Sutherland – co-founder of Scrum, co-author of the Agile Manifesto, creator of Scrum@Scale, and author of Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time.Jeff shares his thoughts on:Why much of today’s Agile is still “bad Agile” – and why it might even be getting worse.How AI is transforming the way teams work, and why pairing with AI is becoming a must for survival in the job market.The role of Scrum Masters and Product Owners in a future where humans and AI collaborate.Why Scrum@Scale outperforms other scaling frameworks, with real-world examples from companies like John Deere and Rocket Mortgage.His vision of Agile in the age of AI, including evolving practices, minimum bureaucracy, and the need for constant learning.This is not just a conversation about frameworks – it’s about the future of work, complexity, and how to thrive when technology changes faster than ever.

In this conversation, Portia Tung and Michael Göthe explore the significance of play in leadership and organizational culture. Portia shares her journey from a technical background to becoming The Play Alchemist and an agile coach, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe and playful environment for effective leadership. They discuss the concept of 'true play,' the five attributes of playful leadership, and how integrating play into daily work can enhance creativity and productivity. The conversation also delves into the science of play and flow, highlighting how play can be a powerful tool for learning and adaptation in complex systems.Portia Tung is The Play Alchemist, Executive Agile coach and founder of The School of Play – inspired by her dream of happier adulthood through lifelong play.Find out more about Portia on here website – https://www.theschoolofplay.org/For upcoming courses including the Playful Leadership programme - https://theschoolofplay.org/courses/

How to Lead and Not Be Led by AI in Complexity — with Jonathan ReamsIn this episode of the Leading Complexity Podcast, we sit down with long-time Crisp collaborator Jonathan Reams — leadership researcher, teacher, and consultant. Jonathan integrates adult development, complexity science, and leadership practice to explore the frontiers of how leaders can grow in an AI-powered world.We talk about his session for Leading Complexity 2025: “How to Lead and Not Be Led by AI in Complexity.” Jonathan shares why leaders must accelerate their own growth to make wise use of AI, rather than risk being controlled by it — and what practical steps can help leaders thrive in complexity.👉 Learn more about the program at leadingcomplexity.com

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Samraaj Bath, CEO of Ion Design and a two-time Y Combinator founder.In this interview, Samraaj shares:His journey from professional dancer to tech entrepreneurHow Ion Design’s AI agent Ruby is changing product design inside SlackInsights on leadership, building AI companies, and staying ahead of rapid industry changeWhy aligning vision, incentives, and curiosity is key to building strong teamsIon Design: https://ion.designLearn more about the Leading Complexity program: https://leadingcomplexity.com/If you’re interested in AI, startups, or the future of product design, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.Don’t forget to subscribe for more conversations with leaders shaping the future of work.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe talk with John Cutler—product thinker, UX veteran, and writer of the popular newsletter The Beautiful Mess. John shares deep insights into the everyday challenges of navigating complexity in modern organizations. Together with the hosts, he explores common pitfalls, how we accidentally create complexity, and why empathy, storytelling, and system visibility are key to making progress. Tomas and Michael pause throughout the conversation to clarify, reflect, and highlight the most important takeaways. A practical and thoughtful episode for anyone leading in today’s fast-moving, ever-changing world.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe explore how we can turn complexity from a stress factor into a creative force. They listen to and reflect on an interview with Jennifer Garvey Berger, author of Unleash Your Complexity Genius. Jennifer shares powerful insights on how our bodies and minds are naturally wired to handle complexity — and how we can access those skills when we need them the most.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into self-organizing organizations with Doug Kirkpatrick, former CFO of Morningstar. Doug shares insights on how traditional bureaucratic structures, born out of the Industrial Revolution, are no longer effective in today's fast-moving world. Instead, he champions the power of simple rules to unlock intelligent, complex behaviors—rather than the rigid, inefficient systems we often see in organizations today. As Tomas and Michael listen to the interview, they highlight key moments, discuss why bureaucratic structures persist, and explore practical examples of self-management in action. They also reflect on the legacy of Dee Hock, the visionary behind Visa and the concept of "chaordic" organizations. If you're curious about how to lead in complexity, navigate bureaucracy, and foster agility, this episode is for you! Join the conversation and share your thoughts in the comments. Don't forget to check out more episodes at http://leadingcomplexity.com/podcast/.

In this episode, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with Lyssa Adkins, renowned Agile coach and author of Coaching Agile Teams. Together, they explore the emerging superpowers of Agilists and the essential leadership shifts needed to navigate complexity.Lyssa shares her insights on how leaders can Upgrade, Downshift, and Expand—developing mental complexity, regulating their nervous systems, and strengthening team collaboration. Tomas and Michael dive deeper into these concepts, highlighting key takeaways for leaders and teams.Join us for an inspiring conversation on agility, leadership, and the challenges of our rapidly changing world.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe listen to Marty Cagan, the renowned author of Inspired, Empowered, and Transformed. Marty dives into the challenge of complexity in modern organizations—how human nature often works against us and why over-reliance on processes can hinder innovation. Tomas and Michael break it down, highlight key takeaways, and share their own insights on dealing with architectural, organizational, and communication complexity.Join the conversation and explore how to lead in a complex world!Subscribe for more episodes and share your thoughts in the comments!

In this episode of Leading Complexity, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive deeper into their interview with Linda Rising, the renowned author of Fearless Change. They reflect on Linda’s insights about patterns for leading change, psychological safety, and how to make transformations less painful. Through engaging discussions, they clarify key concepts like evangelists, small successes, and champion skeptics, offering practical ways to navigate complexity and drive meaningful change. Tune in to explore how patterns shape our ability to introduce new ideas effectively!

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe listen to and reflect on their inspiring interview with Linda Rising, co-author of Fearless Change. Linda shares her experiences and favorite patterns for fostering continuous improvement and building psychological safety in organizations.Linda emphasizes the power of “baby steps” in change processes, illustrating how small experiments and adaptive learning are more effective than rigid plans. She also highlights the latest research on group intelligence and how leaders can cultivate psychological safety to unlock team potential.Join Tomas and Michael as they explore Linda’s insights and clarify key concepts that help leaders in complex environments promote collaboration, innovation, and learning. Discover practical strategies to make change manageable and meaningful!

Join hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe as they talk with Linda Rising, known as the queen of patterns and author of books like “Design Patterns in Communication Software,” “Fearless Change: Patterns for Introducing New Ideas,” and “The Patterns Handbook.” Linda explains how patterns can help us handle change and uses the story of the Swedish warship Vasa—which sank on its first trip in 1628—as a powerful lesson. Tomas and Michael add their own insights, helping us see how cognitive biases affect our choices and how diverse opinions can lead to better decisions.

Join hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe for a thought-provoking discussion on the transformative potential of generative AI in the workplace on the "Leading Complexity Podcast." In Episode 25, they delve into Henrik Kniberg's insights from his new book "Generative AI in a Nutshell," paralleled by his widely viewed video of the same name. Together, they explore how generative AI is reshaping leadership, organization, and processes, bringing a new layer of complexity and opportunity to the forefront. The conversation is not only an interview but an interactive dialogue where the hosts clarify and highlight key points, making complex ideas accessible and engaging. Tune in to understand how AI's rapid evolution could redefine your approach to technology and strategy.Link to Henrik's book "Generative AI in a nutshell"Link to our video about IT Strategy

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with renowned systems thinker Peter Senge, author of The Fifth Discipline. As they delve into the complexities of leadership, Peter shares insights on system awareness, vulnerability, and the nature of complex challenges. Throughout the episode, Tomas and Michael engage in a thoughtful dialogue, unpacking Peter's reflections on how leaders can navigate the unpredictable and interdependent world we live in. They also explore powerful stories, including one about a CEO's honest and vulnerable approach to leadership that led to unexpected success. Join the conversation as they explore how understanding systems and embracing uncertainty can lead to more effective leadership in today's complex world.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into a thought-provoking conversation with Teresa Torres, a product discovery coach known for her Opportunity Solution Tree. Together, they explore key concepts around product discovery, including the importance of framing problems from multiple perspectives and comparing solutions to make better decisions. As they listen to Teresa's insights, Tomas and Michael clarify and highlight critical moments from the interview, offering their own reflections on complex decision-making and the challenges of product development. Join them for a deeper understanding of how to navigate complexity and drive smarter outcomes in your organization.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe continue their conversation with Jurriaan Kamer, author of Unblock. Jurriaan shares insights on fostering a culture of ownership within organizations, offering practical advice on how to empower teams through autonomy and emotional investment. They explore the challenges of decision-making, teamwork, and effective meetings, emphasizing the importance of creating environments that allow people to truly collaborate. Tune in to learn how to unblock potential and lead teams towards greater innovation and efficiency in today's complex business landscape.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into the world of organizational unblocking with Jurriaan Kamer, co-author of Formula X and Unblock. Jurriaan shares insights on how to identify and remove the barriers that hinder organizational flow, drawing inspiration from Formula 1 to achieve speed and agility. Discover how leaders can transition from being traffic cops to road designers, fostering thriving organizations that adapt and excel in complexity. The conversation explores practical strategies for overcoming common blockers like ineffective strategy and outdated steering mechanisms, while also reflecting on the state of Agile and its integration into organizational DNA. This is Part 1 of the interview, with the second half coming next week. Don’t miss this thought-provoking discussion about creating a culture of continuous improvement and unlocking true agility in your organization.

In this episode of Leading Complexity, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with Bjarte Bogsnes, the pioneer behind Beyond Budgeting, to explore how organizations can move beyond traditional financial governance. Together, they unpack Bjarte’s insights on creating more human and adaptive organizations, addressing the pitfalls of conventional management models, and fostering true business agility. Join the conversation as the hosts clarify key principles of Beyond Budgeting and highlight practical steps for navigating today’s complex and fast-changing business environment.

In episode 19 of the Leading Complexity Podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe engage in an insightful conversation with Mary Poppendieck, co-author of four influential books on Lean software development. Mary shares her wisdom on how leaders can navigate complexity, describing it as a “silent killer” that clogs the flow of business like cholesterol. The discussion delves into identifying and eliminating “bad complexity,” which customers won’t pay for, while leveraging “good complexity” to create differentiation. Mary highlights practical strategies for managing excessive demand, including focusing on customer outcomes, creating a steady flow of work, and avoiding multitasking by doing one thing at a time.

In episode 18 of the Leading Complexity Podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe engage with Stephen Bungay, strategist, author, and expert on strategy execution, best known for his book The Art of Action. Throughout the conversation, Tomas and Michael highlight and clarify key concepts, as Stephen unpacks his framework for bridging the gap between strategy and execution, especially in complex and unpredictable environments. This episode dives into Stephen’s insights on the “three gaps” that hinder strategic alignment and the importance of setting a clear direction instead of rigid plans. Leaders will gain valuable perspectives on creating adaptive strategies, fostering clarity, and empowering teams to think critically and act decisively in uncertain conditions. Tune in for practical guidance on leading effectively in today’s dynamic world.

In episode 17 of the Leading Complexity Podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with Matthew Skelton, co-author of Team Topologies. This insightful conversation delves into how organizations can adapt in today’s complex and fast-evolving environment. Tomas and Michael guide listeners through key parts of the interview, highlighting Skelton’s expertise on team structures, organizational agility, and managing emergent complexity. They explore the strategies for fostering effective collaboration, and the pitfalls of traditional management practices. This episode is perfect for leaders looking to reshape their organizations for greater adaptability and resilience.

In this episode, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe engage with Petra Wille, renowned product leadership coach and author of "Strong Product People" and "Strong Product Communities". Through a compelling discussion, they dive into Petra’s insights on what makes product management “the best job on the planet” and the essential elements for building a resilient product culture. Tomas and Michael unpack Petra’s views on the product operating model, community of practice, and the importance of fostering psychological safety within teams. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on balancing user value with business viability, creating adaptive operating models, and fostering a culture of continuous learning and innovation. Petra also shares strategies for effective risk mitigation and hiring for “culture add” to support long-term growth. Tune in to discover practical approaches for shaping high-performing product teams and driving meaningful change in complex environments.

In this episode of "Leading Complexity", Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into an inspiring conversation with Jos de Blok, founder and CEO of Buurtzorg, a groundbreaking community care organization from the Netherlands. Known for its revolutionary self-organizing model, Buurtzorg has transformed healthcare by empowering nurses to deliver personalized care free from complex bureaucracy. Tomas and Michael not only guide the discussion, but also add insights and reflections, highlighting key aspects of Jos’s approach to leadership and his philosophy of “humanity over bureaucracy.” They explore Buurtzorg’s rise from a small team of four nurses to an organization of over 15,000, its unconventional approach to management, and how a patient-centered model can drive positive social change. Tune in to discover how Jos’s journey offers a compelling vision for simplifying organizational structures and achieving success through empowered, self-managing teams.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe interview Joe Justice, a pioneer in Agile hardware development. Joe has led Agile practices at major companies such as Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing, Tesla, and Toyota, and he founded Wikispeed, a car manufacturing company focused on creating the most energy-efficient road-legal car. In the interview, Joe shares his insights on reducing complexity to accelerate innovation, drawing on his experience with Tesla and SpaceX. Tomas and Michael highlight key points from the discussion, offering further explanations and reflections on the importance of simplicity, speed of innovation, and leadership in complex environments. Tune in to gain practical lessons on leading in fast-paced, high-tech industries.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe interview Dave Snowden, the founder of the Cynefin framework, a decision-making model designed to help leaders navigate complexity. Dave shares insights on how complexity is an inherent part of the world and why traditional management tools are insufficient for addressing it. The conversation explores the importance of focusing on networks and interactions, rather than just individuals, and the need for distributed leadership and rapid feedback loops. Dave also explains the value of starting with a sense of direction, rather than fixed goals, and highlights three key strategies for building resilient organizations. Tomas and Michael offer clarifications and reflections, making this an insightful discussion for anyone looking to lead in today’s uncertain world. Don’t miss this engaging episode and join us for more thought-provoking sessions in the Leading Complexity program!

In this episode of the Leading Complexity video podcast, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe interview Nand Kishore Chaudhary (NKC), a renowned social entrepreneur and the founder of Jaipur Rugs. NKC shares the inspiring journey of how he transformed a small business with two looms and nine weavers into a global brand, empowering 40,000 artisans across India. The hosts highlight NKC's unique business philosophy, built on love, compassion, and equality, and explore how he revolutionized the traditional rug industry by uplifting marginalized communities. They also delve into NKC’s belief in unlearning and breaking free from societal conditioning, as well as the impact of weaving human stories into the designs of Jaipur Rugs. Don’t miss this heartfelt conversation, where NKC shares his vision of the future of business being driven by the heart, and join him in the upcoming master class on October 18th.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity video podcast, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into an insightful conversation with Henrik Kniberg, renowned for his influential books Scrum and XP from the Trenches and Lean from the Trenches. Henrik shares his deep expertise in navigating organizational complexity and highlights key leadership lessons from his extensive experience at companies like Spotify, LEGO, and Mojang. Throughout the interview, Tomas and Michael break down the discussion, offering clarifications and emphasizing critical insights. They explore Henrik’s views on embracing unpredictability, the importance of letting go of control in a complex world, and the valuable lessons behind the widely misunderstood Spotify model. Don’t miss out on this episode to gain a deeper understanding of how to lead through complexity and learn practical strategies for organizational success.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into a conversation with Sonja Blignaut, creator of the Waysfinder framework. Sonja explains how her framework helps leaders navigate complexity by fostering situational awareness and embracing multiple potential pathways forward. Throughout the episode, Tomas and Michael highlight key concepts such as the importance of direction over fixed goals and how to create enabling constraints that guide decision-making. Tune in to explore how leaders can better understand and adapt to an unpredictable world with practical insights from Sonja's expertise.

In this episode of the *Leading Complexity* video podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into an insightful conversation with Kent Beck, a renowned figure in software development and the creator of eXtreme Programming. Kent shares his experiences and thoughts on leadership, complexity, and the four factors model, explaining how interdependencies, variation, states, and irreversibility shape our work environments. If you’re eager to learn how to navigate complexity in organizations and software development, this episode offers a deep dive into cutting-edge strategies and leadership insights from one of the field's great minds. Tune in to discover practical advice and thought-provoking ideas that will help you and your teams thrive in today’s fast-evolving world.

In this episode of the Leading Complexity video podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe interview Simon Wardley, the creator of Wardley Mapping. Wardley Mapping is a powerful tool for visualizing value chains and enabling strategic conversations about organizational complexity. Throughout the interview, Wardley shares the origins of his mapping method and its value in helping businesses navigate dynamic and unpredictable environments. Tomas and Michael listen to Wardley’s insights, highlighting key concepts such as Ashby’s Law of Requisite Variety and the importance of situational awareness. They dive deeper into how Wardley Maps can help leaders understand and manage their organizational landscapes, ensuring they make informed, strategic decisions in an ever-evolving world. Watch now to learn how to apply these concepts to your own organization and lead through complexity.

In this episode, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with Annika Steiber, a renowned researcher in innovation management and author of influential books like The Google Model and Leadership for a Digital World. Annika shares her insights on how management must evolve in response to technological advancements, globalization, and sustainability challenges. She discusses the critical need for companies to innovate continuously, adapt their business models, and empower every member of their organization to act as a sensor, identifying emerging opportunities. Annika also emphasizes the importance of decentralization, trust, and creating an environment where talent can thrive. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that will help you lead your organization through uncertainty and turn complexity into strategic advantage.

In this episode, Tomas and Michael interview Gary Hamel, one of the most influential and iconoclastic business thinkers of our time. Gary shares his revolutionary ideas on modern management, emphasizing the need to move beyond outdated bureaucratic structures. He discusses how empowering teams with business literacy, financial stakes, and a deep understanding of their operating context can unlock innovation and resilience in organizations. Gary also reflects on the historical roots of management and why it's crucial to reinvent management for a human-centric approach in today’s dynamic business environment.

In this episode, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe, are excited to talk with Woody Zuill, the creator of mob programming, now known as software teaming. Woody shares how collaborative teamwork can transform problem-solving in complex environments. Let’s dive into our conversation with Woody and discover how to lead your organization more effectively in a fast-changing world.

Join Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe as they dive into an insightful conversation with Bonitta Roy, followed by their thoughtful reflections on her wisdom. Bonnitta Roy is an international award-winning author, presenter, and trainer. She is the creator of the OPO – Open Participatory Organization and Founder of APP Associates International (now C-LABS). She is the author of the popular medium publication ‘Our Future at Work’. She is working on new ways to understand complexity, particularly through the lenses of post-formal actors, action protocols, and complex potential states.

Michael Göthe and Tomas Björkholm are listening to the interview with Erin Meyer and reflects on the content. Erin Meyer, the co-author of “No Rules Rules”, explores how a strong, dilemma-solving culture has been key to Netflix’s success.

Michael Göthe and Tomas Björkholm are listening to an interview with Peter Block and give their reflections on what Peter calls Leader as a Convener. Peter is partner at Designed Learning, a training company that offers workshops designed to build the skills outlined in his books. His books include Flawless Consulting, Stewardship, The Answer to How Is Yes, Community, The Abundant Community, and An Other Kingdom.

Michael Göthe and Tomas Björkholm listen to an interview with Esther Derby, a well-known thought leader within the Agile community, and give their reflections on the content.