Marked Conversations™

A portrait can be beautiful and still feel flat, so we went looking for the kind of art that pushes back. I’m talking about Pascal, a Germany-based tattoo artist and painter who works in a style he calls dark fragmented art. His pieces don’t just show a face, they break it open with fragmentation, deep shadow, and rough texture so the emotion hits before you even understand what you’re seeing. If you’re into dark realism tattoos, high-contrast portrait work, or unsettling fine art that still feels precise, this one is for you. We get into what makes his approach different: he treats the frame like part of the image, burning and stretching edges to create dimension that reads almost like 3D mixed media. That “dark fragmented realism” look is more than a vibe, it’s a set of choices around shadow placement, value control, and composition that turns a standard portrait into something that feels alive. There’s also a standout piece that grabbed me immediately, a fragmented face with an eerie overlay that could be a screen, a mask, or a ghost form, and it’s exactly the kind of ambiguity that makes dark art stick in your head. Then we spotlight “Beware Of The Demons,” a detailed portrait painting with an angel inside the frame and bronze-gold hands reaching out as if the painting can’t contain what’s happening. We also talk practicals, including that Instagram is the best way to contact Pascal, and that seeing his work in person may mean booking time in Germany. If you like discovering niche artists and learning how they build mood through darkness, texture, and distortion, hit subscribe, share this with a friend who loves tattoo art, and leave a review telling us what Pascal’s work makes you feel.

A back piece can look like ink, or it can look like a scene you’d find on a cathedral wall. We get into why Italian tattoo artist Andrea Pellerone’s work lands in that second category, blending fine line micro-realism with black and grey illustrative tattooing in a way that feels mythological, philosophical, and seriously cinematic.We talk through what jumps out the moment you see his tattoos: the patience in the micro-details, the confidence of the line work, and the way negative space does as much storytelling as the black ink. One of the standout breakdowns is a darkly poetic back piece that reads like Italian scripture carved into stone, with contrast that pulls your eye straight to the light center. Then we dive into another back design featuring an illustrative gorilla, an eagle, and a center panel packed with symbols, quotes, and astrological details that still feels clean because the spacing is so intentional.There’s also a practical side if you’re trying to book work from an artist who tattoos out of Italy and keeps things private. We share how his Instagram points to a website link, how “Book Now” routes to a private WhatsApp message, and why joining artist groups can help you catch booking windows, closures, and cancellations while seeing fresh pieces in real time.If you care about fine line tattoos, negative space tattoo design, or what separates good micro-realism from truly elite work, this one will sharpen your eye. Subscribe for more artist spotlights, share this with a friend planning a back piece, and leave a review with the tattoo style you’re chasing right now.

Her tattoos don’t just look realistic, they look alive. We’re talking about Lu Li, better known as Victoria Lee (@VictoriaLeeTattoo), a Beijing, China tattoo artist whose photorealism and black and gray realism pieces feel like they should be framed, not worn. If you’ve ever wondered what separates “good realism” from the kind of work that stops you mid-scroll, we get into the specifics that make her art hit so hard.We start with the basics: who she is, why her studio info can be hard to track down, and how to contact her without getting burned by fake accounts. We point you to the safest path through her Instagram, mention the group chat option, and underscore the one rule that matters most when an artist gets this popular: double-check spelling and sources before you message or send anything.Then we nerd out on the tattoos themselves. One piece that sticks with us is an “evil zombie” design where coin-like pendants spill across the face, and the depth between each element is built through precise shadows and controlled tone. We also talk about a jaw-dropping LeBron James portrait reportedly done in 23 hours across three consecutive days, complete with a crown and hyper-real details like veins and texture that make the portrait feel almost three-dimensional.If you love realism tattoos, portrait tattoos, and the craft behind world-class tattooing, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s obsessed with photorealism, and leave a review with the most impressive realism tattoo you’ve ever seen.

You can hear it when someone chooses tattooing because they need it, not because it looks cool. Ilya Cascad moved from Russia to the US, landed in Las Vegas two weeks before COVID, and still found a way to build Ornamental Ink into a studio with a clear point of view: ornamental tattoos that fit the body like design. We talk about the pressure of starting at 28 while everyone tells you, "you are late," the mindset shift that comes with real responsibility, and the unexpected moment his early work got shared to millions and changed his trajectory overnight.From there we get deep into the craft behind geometric tattoo and blackwork tattooing. Ilya breaks down why ornamental artwork is misunderstood as “easy,” how composition and placement create the difference between a pattern and a piece that actually belongs on a body, and why stencil vs freehand is never a purity test. We also get technical about tools, needle groupings, multiple machines for speed, and the reality that one crooked line can throw off an entire design.We zoom out to community and long term vision too: the Ornamentalika platform, building high comfort convention booths at shows like Golden State Tattoo Expo, and the big question every artist faces when trends explode online. Is repeating the same design smart branding, or a trap when the algorithm moves on? If you care about tattoo design, tattoo artistry, or building a creative career with longevity, this conversation stays honest all the way through.Subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with a tattooer who cares about composition, and leave a review if you want us to keep bringing working artists on the mic.

A great Japanese traditional tattoo doesn’t just look powerful, it’s engineered to fit your body and your future plans. We’re shining a light on Yoichi Tanaka, a Japanese tattoo artist known for custom irezumi, bold linework, and large-scale bodysuit projects that feel cohesive from the first session to the last. Yoichi tattoos out of OG Studio in Japan and also works in the United States, including at Carlo Torres’s shop The Raven and the Wolves, giving collectors real options if they’re deciding between Japan or California. We talk through what separates “big imagery” from true bodysuit design: placement that respects anatomy, clear pathways to expand into a full suit, and compositions that stay readable as you add panels. One of our favorite examples is an Ashikoratengu piece, described as a mountain protector and skilled martial artist, placed on the shoulder and built to flow under the chest. It’s a strong standalone tattoo, but it also keeps the door open for future chest and side coverage, which is exactly what many clients want from a custom Japanese traditional tattoo plan. Technique matters too. Yoichi isn’t locked into one approach, we’ve seen fully traditional work done with a standard machine and with stick and poke methods that echo the hand-crafted feel many people love in irezumi. We also geek out over a samurai back piece that drips into the thighs and ties together a tiger below through smooth shading and confident color transitions, turning the whole bodysuit into a visual storybook. If you’re into Japanese traditional tattoos, bodysuits, back pieces, or simply want to understand what “good placement” actually means, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s planning a big piece, leave a review, and tell us what motif you’d build a full suit around.

A tattoo that looks like an embroidered patch shouldn’t work, but somehow it does and once you see it, you can’t unsee it. We’re talking about Vini Moschen, a Brazil-based tattoo artist whose embroidery patch realism makes ink look like raised thread, stitched borders, and even loose strings sitting on top of the skin. It hits that weird sweet spot where childhood nostalgia meets high-end realism tattoo technique, and it leaves us staring at the screen asking, “Wait… is that real yarn?”We dig into what makes the illusion so convincing: the direction of the “stitches,” the fine line details that read like tiny strands, the frayed edges that mimic fabric, and the color depth that sells the idea of texture and shadow. We also get into why this style pairs so well with pop culture designs, from anime tattoo ideas and cartoons to game icons like Donkey Kong and characters like Bulbasaur. The result feels like a wearable collectible, like a Boy Scout patch or a vintage badge brought to life with modern tattoo realism.We also talk practicals for anyone who wants to follow the work or book: Vini travels widely, shows his stops on Instagram, and even offers a direct WhatsApp link through his profile. If you’re into patchwork tattoo art, embroidery tattoos, or just love seeing the boundaries of tattoo realism get pushed, this one will keep your brain busy the whole way through.Subscribe for more daily discoveries, share this with a friend who loves tattoos, and leave a review if you want us to spotlight more niche styles. What would you get as an embroidery patch tattoo?

A lot of “abstract” tattoos look random up close or muddy from a distance. Peste (Sebastiano) is the opposite. He’s an Italian-born, Melbourne-based tattoo artist whose freehand abstract blackwork stays bold, readable, and insanely detailed, with ink that looks like it’s still moving across the skin. We walk through what makes his designs feel intentional, from heavy blacks to soft greys, clean highlights, and that signature drip effect that turns a flat area into something dimensional. We also get into the pieces that stopped us mid-scroll: surreal, anime-inspired character work fused into blackwork abstraction without losing the face, the mood, or the depth. If you’ve ever wondered how an artist can make a detailed portrait-like element sit inside chaotic textures and still feel separate, we break down the visual logic behind it value control, layering, and knowing exactly where to let the skin breathe. Tattoo collectors looking for modern blackwork tattoo ideas, large-scale abstract tattoos, or freehand blackwork composition will get plenty to think about here. On the practical side, we share how to reach Peste, including why email is the best contact method, plus options like DM and an Instagram group chat for cancellations. We also talk about his travel, since he’s worked across Asia, Europe, the USA, and Australia, making him a strong pick if you’re planning a guest spot session or building a bigger body project over time. If you’re into abstract blackwork, surreal tattoos, or high-contrast freehand design, listen now then subscribe, share the show with a tattoo friend, and leave a review so more people can find these artist spotlights.

A lot of people see a polished Instagram tattoo and assume it started as a clean Pinterest image and ended as a quick session. The truth is messier, harder, and way more interesting. We’re joined by Sergey Shanko, co-owner of Mona Lisa Tattoo Studio in Westwood, to talk about what it really takes to build a tattoo career with a recognizable style, especially in neo traditional, pop color, and color realism.Sergey walks us through his origin story, from BMX dreams and nonstop drawing in Russia to tattooing for free just to build a portfolio strong enough to get noticed. We dig into the long immigration grind, why traveling through Europe, Asia, and Canada sharpened his work, and how Los Angeles pushes artists with pure competition and energy. If you care about finding your style as an artist, or choosing the right artist as a collector, his take is blunt and practical: specialization is the future.We also get technical and real about what clients get wrong at consultations, why custom tattoo design is harder than it looks, and how color tattoos can age well when the artist understands skin, sun exposure, packing, needle choices, and mixing pigments for the right tones. Then we zoom out to the big questions: Is Instagram making tattooing better or worse? How do you separate social media talent from real tattoo skill? What does respect inside the tattoo industry actually look like?If you got value from this conversation, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s planning a tattoo, and leave a review. What trend do you think people will regret most in 10 years?

Film icons brought to life in ink that looks like it’s stepping off the skin—that’s the magic we explore as we spotlight Kai, aka the artist DJT Tattoo in China. We share why his hyper color realism stops us mid-scroll and how he turns scenes from Breaking Bad and Silence of the Lambs into portraits that carry emotion, not just likeness. From the sphere-like depth of a Mickey Mouse piece to the way he stacks characters across a sleeve, we dig into how light, shadow, and saturation can sculpt form on living canvas.We walk through the design choices that make realism last: smart placement on arms and legs, strong silhouettes that stay readable, and color transitions that hold up after healing. You’ll hear us puzzle over his palette—whether he mixes like a painter or lays out rows of pre-mixed inks—and why those micro-highlights matter so much. If you’ve ever wondered how artists achieve that glassy pop without overworking the skin, this breakdown gives you a clear lens into technique and intent.We also get practical. Kai appears to work from a personal studio in China and rarely guest spots, so we share the best ways to reach him—WeChat and Instagram DMs—and what to prepare if you’re serious about traveling for a piece. Bring strong references, choose meaningful placement, and give the artist room to solve for lighting and flow. By the end, you’ll understand how hyper color realism becomes more than a copy of a frame; it becomes a story that lives with you, ages with you, and keeps surprising you every time the light hits.If this deep dive sparked ideas for your next tattoo, subscribe, share this episode with a friend who loves color realism, and leave us a review with the character you’d want immortalized in ink.

Pick a side, but make it permanent. We kick off with the eternal Marvel vs DC debate, own up to our Batman exception, and then dive headfirst into the art of turning fandom into living, breathing tattoo stories. Our focus lands on Canadian powerhouse Derek Turcott, whose hyper-real, hyper-color work makes comics and anime feel like they’re still in motion—only now they move with you.We explore why Derek’s pieces look “pulled from the panel” without feeling like a cut-and-paste collage. From hot-to-cold color transitions that build depth, to composition choices that anchor a powerful focal portrait, his sleeves and leg pieces read like scenes with pacing and impact. We talk Dragon Ball Z nostalgia, Vegeta’s fierce presence, and how childhood cartoons—from Batman to SpongeBob—can evolve into adult artifacts that still carry joy, grit, and memory. If you’ve ever wondered how an artist can blend frames from shows, covers, and posters into one seamless narrative on skin, this is the creative blueprint.You’ll also hear practical tips for anyone daring to start a large-scale comic or anime tattoo. We break down placement strategy for full limbs and backs, why reference curation matters, and how to brief an artist without boxing them in. For those ready to book, Derek tattoos at Electric Grizzly Tattoo in Canmore, Alberta, and handles inquiries through Instagram at drk_tercot via his events/discussion page and email. Skip the DMs, follow the channels he sets, and arrive with a clear vision and open mind.If this episode sparks ideas for your next piece, share it with a friend who still knows every DBZ arc by heart. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: which character would you wear for life?

Tattoos that make you forget you’re looking at skin—that’s the level we’re talking about. We take you inside the world of Silvano Fiato, the Genoa-based hyper-realism artist now recognized by Rome’s Museum of Contemporary Art, and unpack how his storytelling approach reshapes what a tattoo can be. From lifelike pores and wet hair textures to glowing eyes that cast believable shadows, we explore why his pieces feel cinematic, not static.We go deep on technique: soft strokes that stack micro-gradients, precise use of negative space that lets natural skin act as highlight, and the strategic placement of heavy blacks that anchor saturated color for the long haul. You’ll hear how composition works with the body—sternum lines, throat reveals, and ribcage movement—to guide the eye and protect clarity as the tattoo heals. We also break down standout works like the Batman portrait, a Pharaoh with Anubis, and the serpent panel that pulls the gaze up the torso and blurs where anatomy ends and illusion begins.If you’re thinking about collecting a piece, we share practical steps for reaching the official page, navigating coordinators, and asking the right questions about books, day rates, session counts, and references. We talk travel logistics for Europe-based sessions, the realities of waitlists, and how to gauge whether a top-tier rate matches your goals. Along the way, we discuss why museum recognition matters for the culture at large and how this moment elevates the standards for realism, composition, and longevity across the tattoo community.Subscribe for more artist spotlights, share this with a friend who loves next-level ink, and leave a review telling us which Fiato piece you’d wear and why. Your picks shape our next deep dive.

You can feel when an artist is consumed by the work—in the quiet decisions no one notices and the way a healed tattoo still turns heads a year later. That’s Daniel Rocha, Vegas-born owner of Seven Tattoo, whose path from plumbing layoffs to large-scale black and gray realism is a masterclass in patience, composition, and client care.We walk through the early sparks—art classes before kindergarten, sketching cartoons, the lowrider scene that trained his eye for pinstripes and chrome—and the moment he bought a kit, tattooed himself, and never looked back. Daniel explains why “good” is the floor, not the goal: a clean shop and a finished piece are baseline; great work means thoughtful composition, controlled values, and a story that breathes across sleeves, fronts, and backs. He breaks down how small wins earned him big projects, why he avoids trends that won’t age well, and how a single hyper-real Tinkerbell opened the door to portraits, then to the long-form realism he’s known for today.If you’re an artist, you’ll love the nuts and bolts: consistent setups from tight threes to twenty-seven mags, when to extend or tuck throw, five-step gray wash systems, and using opaque grays to make reflective forms glow without sacrificing longevity. If you’re a collector, you’ll hear how Daniel designs experiences that reduce doubt the moment you walk in—the way he documents, follows up, and plans for how pieces heal over time. We also get real about business in a slower economy: building a team, communicating standards, avoiding “brand suicide,” and creating value without desperation. And yes, we talk coffee—Daniel’s precision ritual and his plan to open a café inside Seven as a warm bridge for curious locals and returning clients.Listen for a blueprint that blends obsession with empathy: compose before you ink, care after you post, and design an experience that outlasts trends. If this conversation moves you, subscribe, share it with a friend who loves black and gray realism, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

A beetle that gleams like a ruby. A wolf that reads as motion because green light trails across the forearm. A blue snake that feels elegant instead of dangerous. We dive into the vivid world of Natasha—Animal_Tattooer—whose hypercolor realism turns wildlife into stories that breathe on skin.We trace her journey from Moscow to Germany and talk about why so many elite tattoo artists emerge from European traditions. It’s more than geography; it’s a hand-meets-eye lineage where composition, color theory, and narrative collide. We break down how she uses controlled saturation and accent palettes—neon greens, deep blues, warm reds—to signal mood and movement without sacrificing realism. You’ll hear how a grayscale base gains velocity with color, how soft transitions make snakes read as graceful, and how small details turn a beetle into a jewel with meaning.We also share practical guidance for clients who want museum-quality work. Bring a focused brief: subject, placement, size, one to two mood words, and a single accent color family. Reference two or three pieces from the artist’s portfolio that match the finish you want, then give room for her vision. We discuss symbolism without the heavy hand—why verbs and adjectives steer better than a laundry list of nouns—and how to think in dynamics like calm, luminous, or aggressive to shape composition. Finally, we cover contact routes, booking windows, and why joining artist groups can open doors to retreats, collaborations, and concept-led pieces.If this conversation sparks ideas for your next tattoo, follow along, share it with a friend who’s planning a piece, and leave a review to tell us what animal and palette you’d choose next.

Some tattoos look great in a photo and fall flat in real life. We wanted to spotlight an artist whose work looks intentional from every angle—on the street, at the beach, or under formal wear. Meet tattoo__marka, a Ukrainian tattoo artist blending fine-line precision, watercolor haze, and Japanese-influenced composition into elegant, wearable art. Her portfolio stands out for a restrained palette—deep blues, vivid reds, and grounded grays—that creates a soft glow without losing impact.We walk through a standout “fire and ice” dragon leg piece where cool blues meet hot reds in a yin-yang tension, tied together with delicate shadow and smart use of negative space. The real magic is placement: she designs for movement and outfits, positioning tattoos so a dress reveals a hint of a dragon while a bikini unveils the full flow. Separate pieces—like roses on the leg and motifs on the arm—echo across the body even when fabric divides them, turning body art into a styling tool rather than a static image. That level of planning shows a high design IQ and a deep understanding of how tattoos live in daily life.We dig into the technique behind the softness: fine lines that sketch form without heavy outlines, watercolor gradients that read like mist, and a cohesive color language that helps pieces age well and harmonize over time. Expect observations on Japanese influence, composition, and why a limited palette can make a collection feel timeless and classy. If you value elegant, intricate work that looks exquisitely classy on and off camera, this spotlight will help you see what to ask for and how to plan your own pieces.If you’re considering a tattoo in Ukraine or you just love refined ink, tune in and share your thoughts. And if this episode sparked ideas for your next piece, follow, rate, and leave a review—then send it to a friend who’s planning their first tattoo.

Brought to you by Marked Conversations, we showcase the amazing tattoo artist Neon Judas in our Discovery Series.Some tattoos turn heads; these make people stop mid-step. We spotlight Neon Judas, the Berlin artist whose black-and-gray realism walks a tightrope between horror and beauty, pulling viewers into layered stories you can’t shake. From lifelike portraits to collage-style compositions that feel ripped from a magazine—ink drips, torn edges, and type—his work demands a second look, then a third. The result is art that’s readable at a glance and rewarding under scrutiny, where small choices in value, edges, and negative space build emotional weight.We share first impressions of his most talked-about pieces, like fingers holding up eyelids and a desiccated head crowned with flowers, and unpack why they resonate: not as gimmicks, but as symbols of fragility, mortality, and grace. You’ll hear how he feathers blacks to create air and depth, separates foreground and background without losing clarity, and uses collage devices to reframe realism into something cinematic. We also dive into the interpretive power of phrases—like “God is in the TV”—and why two people can stand beside the same tattoo and take away different meanings. That’s the point: these are thinker pieces designed to slow you down.Access matters, too. While Neon Judas tattoos out of Berlin and has worked in Italy, he also guest spots in New York at respected studios and appears at major conventions, making it possible to plan a session without a continent-long trek. We talk booking strategy, why sharing screenshots of favored works can kickstart a stronger concept, and what to expect from a session built on trust and bold choices. If you want realism that stops crowds and starts conversations, this deep dive will help you see what sets his portfolio apart.Enjoy the episode? Follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review telling us which piece hit you hardest. Your feedback helps more listeners discover the art that moves them.

Ever wonder how someone maps perfect symmetry onto a body that refuses to be symmetrical? We sat down with Austin Walsh (@SacredHound.ttt) from Las Vegas, NV; a self-taught geometric specialist whose career pivot came from a wild DMT vision of sacred geometry and mandalas—and he’s been chasing precision on crooked canvases ever since.We dig into how he blends freehand body layouts with Procreate patterns to create large-scale blackwork that flows over knees, elbows, and muscles without losing balance. He shares the hard-won lessons on contrast across skin tones, why speed matters to prevent trauma in blackouts, and the accountability mindset behind offering free touch-ups on big projects. The conversation also gets real on session dynamics: meeting clients to confirm a vibe, keeping admin human even when booked into 2026, and setting firm boundaries when a “sleeve of everything” would sabotage the design.On the road, he breaks down a working-vacation playbook: targeted IG ads in new cities, strong shop relationships, and the difference between guest spots and invite-only conventions. We also unpack the judging gray areas where Polynesian and geometric get lumped together, why he loves cover-ups in this style, and how mentors shaped his approach—from meticulous pre-sizing to tiny workflow tweaks that compound into mastery. He’s candid about charging less for styles he’s still learning and outspoken about AI: useful as a tool, dangerous as a crutch that erodes authorship and growth.If you care about geometric tattoos, sacred geometry, dotwork, blackwork, cover-ups, or just want to hear how craft and integrity can scale without shortcuts, this one’s for you. Hit play, subscribe for more conversations with specialist artists, and drop a comment: where do you stand on numbing cream and AI-designed tattoos?

A name, a loss, and a first spark turned a casual interest into a full-body curation. We sit down with co-owner and host Dario to unpack how he built a cohesive suit from black and gray hyperrealism, selective color pieces, and smart placement—and why the best artists are chosen for design, not hype. From Trenton roots to sessions in Aarhus, the journey blends art, travel, and discipline into something more than just an experience.We get practical about standards: what “high-end” actually means, how to vet portfolios, why daily rates matter more than hourly quotes, and how contrast, lighting, and body flow separate museum-grade work from trend-chasing ink. Dario shares the unfiltered reality of pain management and planning—stacking sessions, protecting skin, and knowing when fatigue risks the piece. We also talk red flags and “icks,” from blacklight inks to gimmicky 3D-glasses reveals that impress for a minute and disappoint for years.There’s honesty here about evolution. Cover-ups and laser removal make space for better ideas, and yes, lasering hurts—a lot. But the long game pays off when a piece sits on the body like it belongs there, holds up under daylight, and tells a story across decades. As public perception shifts and visible placements become normal, we explore how to earn prime real estate, handle stares with grace, and think about aging with ink without losing the joy of the process.If you’re building a collection—or planning your first appointment—this conversation will sharpen your eye and your plan. Follow the show, share it with a friend who loves tattoos, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway or question for the next episode.

What happens when a “young angel” script turns into a full‑blown pursuit of timeless, one‑of‑one cover-up art? We sit down with Gabe Spades one of the owners and hosts of Marked Conversations to retrace the path from impulsive early ink to award‑winning geometric and ornamental work, unpacking the choices, the hours, and the mindset that makes a body truly read as a canvas.Gabe explains why he abandoned trend‑driven pieces for geometry that collaborates with the body’s structure, how he sourced references, and the process of finding elite artists via Instagram hashtags like geometric, ornamental, and blackwork. He shares the reality behind a massive chest cover‑up most shops refused, the blackwork strategy that finally erased it, and the feeling of taking first place at a major convention. We dig into practical criteria for evaluating tattoos—readability from twelve feet, confident line work and dot gradients, smooth blends, and placement that respects anatomy—along with candid takes on micro “stamp” trends and how they age.We also get tactical about pain management and aftercare. From the knives‑behind‑the‑knee sensation to why nipples can trigger involuntary movement, Gabe outlines when numbing cream helps rather than harms. He breaks down second skin for low‑maintenance healing, why overusing Aquaphor can dull saturation, and how a light lotion routine can keep blackwork crisp. If you’re planning a sleeve or a full body suit, you’ll hear how to budget for top artists, what respectful communication looks like, and why patience, funds, and commitment are non‑negotiable. Ready to trade impulse for intention and design that lasts? Follow, share with a friend who’s planning ink, and leave a review to tell us what style you’d choose next.