The God Journey - 2008

In this the last podcast of the year, Brad and Wayne pick up a host of loose ends. Wayne’s teaching granddaughter Aimee to fly and is reminded again how people learn this journey, not so much in lectures, books or rituals, but by learning in life how to live in love and follow Jesus. In response to an email they also reflect back on “Awakening to His Voice” and see how claiming God’s voice can be used to manipulate others. The clarity of God’s voice leads to humility and gentleness, not certainty and arrogance. Happy New Year to all our Podjourney Godcast listeners!

Brad and Wayne are in a festive mood this holiday season as they catch up on their recent travels, share a poignant comic, and sort through the old mail bag. They hear from listeners at the moment of some amazing breakthroughs, and those who are struggling through the painfulness of disillusionment in hopes of it becoming grateful one day. They also talk about right-handed and left-handed power, and why Jesus forsook the one, to embrace the other in hopes of transforming humanity through the simple magnificence of his own person and how threatening that was to the religious leaders of his day. (Click here for the video referred to on the podcast.)

A quote on the God Journey Forum about having a conversation with God leads Brad and Wayne into a discussion about what it means to live with an ear to God’s voice. Do people really carry on conversations with God? Can you listen to God without being weird? Is he an audible voice? How do we separate our thoughts from his? So many people miss this simple reality because they have preconceptions of what that might look like, or they try to make it happen by their own efforts. Learning to be sensitive to the wind of the Spirit in the naturalness of every day life is not as difficult as most people seem to think.

More letters and an experience Brad’s family had over Thanksgiving puts the spotlight on how religion makes us fend for ourselves and grace invites us to live inside of him. Living in that place of freedom, however, can mean different things to different people. Grace is not an excuse to live in bondage and call it freedom, but it is an invitation into transformation. Too many people grow easily discouraged in that space between learning to let go of our religious efforts and finding the freedom to live in love and trust.

Living inside the relationship we don’t deserve and can’t earn proves to be a challenge for many. We are so easily caught in the performance trap and it affects everything, from how we react to the news to how we treat others around us. Brad and Wayne sort through a host of listener emails that show people in various stages of the process and celebrate the incredible work God does inside a relationship to free us from the bondage of sin, and the bondage of religious performance.

Scholars have discovered that for the first 1000 years of Christian history the focus and art of the early believers were fixed on the reality of the Risen Christ living among his people. Then, surprisingly the focuse shifted to the dying and suffering Jesus on the cross. Why is that? Wayne and Brad examine what happened when Christianity became a religion divorced from a meaningful and personal relationship with Jesus. A letter from a listener personifies the anguish many feel when they wake up to the emptiness that religion has dealt them. It may be time to reboot our spiritual passions to re-engage the Savior who still lives and walks among his people.

*No, that’s no misprint above, but you’ll have to listen to the podcast to understand the title. When we are convinced that we have to earn God’s favor through our own self-efforts, we will not only distance ourselves from God at our place of greatest need, but we’ll also turn on others when they don’t work as hard as we do. People’s responses to the political and economic landscape of the United States provide a backdrop for Brad and Wayne’s discussion about the choice between trying to fix ourselves or others through religious efforts, or learning to simply follow Jesus as his glory unfolds in the very situations in which we find ourselves.

The election results are in and Brad and Wayne aren’t seeing eye to eye about, which comes out in their early conversation. Passionate followers of Jesus saw this election very differently and as Brad and Wayne process all of that they come to the common ground of knowing that the reality of God always wins over the speculations and schemes of humankind. In his Incarnation Jesus demonstrated to us that by embracing God’s reality, not the changing winds of each political contest, we can live differently in the world. Rather than playing on fears, or being manipulated by them, we can live without fear at all and then we are able to embrace God’s grace freely and share it

More listener email and current events send Brad and Wayne on a protracted discussion about performance-based spirituality. Those who think they can earn their relationship with God through their own efforts end up on an exhausting and fruitless course that distorts our view of him and of Scripture. Living free in the love of the Father is what opens the door to a journey of growth and transformation that is at the heart of the Gospel.

Brad and Wayne take a look through the ol’ mail bag and find themselves in a discussion about the relationship between truth and love in this kingdom. The religious mind-set that values truth over love is not only destructive to spiritual life, but also misses the heart of truth where it discounts love. Learning to walk the God journey means that we discover truth inside of love and doing so we will never find a conflict between the two.

Brad and Wayne start with some wonderful email they’ve received at the God Journey describing the journey from other people’s perspective and then they dissect a conversation Wayne had on the phone with one of those dear brothers out to change the world for God. Desperate for a platform and anxious to change the Body of Christ at a national, even international level, is only leading him to greater frustration. We don’t get to have the grand strategy or take the conductor’s podium. We get to follow him each day and watch what extraordinary ways that Jesus will make his Father known in the earth.

Wayne gets recruited by an atheist and Brad and he end up in a discussion about how religion exploits us all by rewarding the achievers and manipulating the powerless. Self always wants to validate itself by what we can do and offers validation based on false realities. That performance trap either leads us to self-boasting and a sense of entitlement, or the condemnation of never thinking we are doing enough. Jesus offers us a connection with the Father that is more than enough in times of plenty and in times of great need.

Economic disaster looms in every newscast and government officials fall all over themselves to hide the corruption behind it and their complicity in it all in an attempt to restore the image of an economic system based more on people’s perception than reality. Sound familiar? Amateur economists Brad and Wayne begin there but end up in a broader discussion of where our security actually lies in these crisis-filled days. The writer of Hebrews warned of a day when everything that can be shaken, would be shaken, so that which is real, enduring, and true might seen for what they are. Those in Christ are part of that unshakable kingdom and living in that reality can set our hearts at rest even when all else is in crisis.

Mick Silva, a friend of The God Journey and editor with Waterbrook-Multnomah publishing group was in town to visit Wayne and Brad so they dragged him into the podcast booth for a wide-ranging discussion about the current state of Christian publishing in the U.S. and the effect that The Shack has had on the industry. On the way the find themselves talking about the changing of the guard for those who would be gate-keepers of truth for others.

From time to time people ask Brad and Wayne about certain Scriptures that seem on face value to contradict the message of grace and God’s invitation to live loved. They tackle a number of these Scriptures and show how when people apply them them in the context of religious performance their meaning is lost and their application distorted. The New Testament invites us into a very different process where we are transformed out of our relationship with him, not by human effort. In that context these same verses thrive with meaning and power.

The conversation expands as listener email takes center-stage again. Looking through the eyes of others sends Brad and Wayne on a free-ranging conversation about the joys of freedom and living loved. When our relationship with God provides all that we need, we no longer have to use others or exploit their needs to validate ourselves. That allows us to live genuinely and not respond to the manipulation of others as well. Then we can see how our simple concern for others can provide an environment in which real relationships can flourish.

Wayne’s back from the upper Midwest and shares some of his experiences with Brad and the joy of helping people who are just emerging from guilt and pressure of performance-based religion to contemplate the reality of grace and relationship. They tackle some listener email as well, discussing how Paul’s teaching of sowing and reaping fits into their understanding of God’s unfolding grace as he transforms our lives in the ups and downs of this present age.

Sounds like Brad has been watching the Olympics which opens up a discussion about the difference between achievement in the world and spiritual growth. We also get some of the most incredible email from people who are on the God journey and seeing God do some amazing things in their life. A dip into the mail bag offer Brad and Wayne the opportunity to go revisit some of their recent discussions about keeping rules or being transformed by love, holiness, and encouraging those who are in the midst of very dark and painful days on the journey.

The increasing sales figures of THE SHACK has continues to frustrate those who regard the book as a dangerous heresy. Recent attacks from a variety of sources allows Brad and Wayne to talk about the generosity of truth. You don’t need to protect it, or defend it, just let it come freely from your life to touch others as God might desire. Wayne reads a letter by German theologian Karl Barth, written in the early 1960s, gives some excellent insight into handling critics with grace and wisdom. You can read the full text of Barth’s letter here.

Responding to a series of listener emails and comments, Wayne and Brad discuss knowing God for who he is and living in the moment with him as a loved child in the earth, rather than trying to define our purpose or destiny and fulfilling it by our own strength or ingenuity. Maybe it’s only when we give up the illusion of controlling our own lives and fulfilling our own desires that we can live in the danger of trusting him.

Did Jesus give people a license to sin? Wayne returns from his BridgeBuilding work in Utah and that sends he and Brad into a discussion about freedom and liberty and how God relates to us in the face of our sin. Many people think that the Gospel is summed up in trying to get others to follow God’s rules. But to do so out of performance will only produce the opposite of what he wants most. As Paul describes in Galatians 5, living in freedom is the only way for us to relate to God that will transform us from the inside out.

Email from listeners set the course on this podcast. First up is a discussion about God’s nature and whether Scripture seeking God has a lion side and a lamb side. Then they tackle a question about worship and whether or not it is self-seeking from God’s side. Finally, they discuss problems with extended family members understanding those who no longer find themselves in traditional congregations. One of those uncovers a particularly dark side of religious manipulation and how it can tear a family apart. What do we do then?

Back from the Christian retailing show in Florida, Brad and Wayne ruminate on their experiences and end up in a discussion about how we perceive God’s generosity. Religion teaches us that we serve a miserly God who must be impressed and cajoled into giving up his goodies. But Jesus and Paul talked about a God of immense generosity. Why the difference? Wayne also shows Brad a picture a listener sent from Australia sent to Wayne. (Click on the photo at left to see a full-size rendering.)

Brad and Wayne catch up on a lot of listener emails and gives them a chance to hear from people at various stages of this journey, from the pain of being disillusioned to the joy of recognizing God’s love and life flowing through them in a fresh way. At each point Brad and Wayne offer their encouragement as to how to stay focused on God and let him take them through to greater freedom and joy.

A letter in response to Brad and Wayne’s recent podcast entitled Unsanctified Mercy, they get into a discussion about God’s judgment and discipline and whether those are unmerciful acts, or further extensions of his mercy. Many people mistake mercy for simply being nice or enabling people’s willfulness, but does God see it that way?

Our last podcast about Revival Fever brought a firestorm of emails. Some liked it, others hated it. Brad and Wayne read the letters, and launch into a discussion about how to love others who may not see the things the way you do. They also talk about having conversations through those kind of conflicts that help us all grow, rather than cutting off communication as we simply defend our own positions.

It was Brownsville and Toronto. Today its Redding or Lakeland. A listener wants to know what Brad and Wayne think about the so-called revivals that break out from time to time. That leads them to a further discussion about understanding the fullness of the Holy Spirit, how the reality of his presence was hijacked by the Charismatic renewal. They even tackle a question about the reality of the Devil and what place he has in the life of a believer.

Brad and Wayne are freshly back from the Book Exposition of America where an encounter got them thinking again and how the religious mindset sounds so arrogant and condescending to the world’s ears. The wrestle with a term others are using called unsanctified mercy, which is extending mercy to people who don’t deserve it. Well, isn’t that the point—for all of us? Their discussion takes them through Matthew 9 and 10 and how Jesus viewed others in the world and how he called us to live among them in a way that opens their heart to our message of hpe and life!

Letters from a number of God Journey listeners invite Brad and Wayne into a discussion about how religion, rather than setting us free from our self-focused lives, can give us an excuse to serve our selves convinced that we are doing God a favor. The need to please ourselves is the core motivation that Father’s love swallows up in our lives, so that we can live free in his life and grace.

Two angry pastors have dominated the political debate for the past month. Their antics launch Brad and Wayne into a discussion about anger and how it is often exacerbated by religious thinking. They talk about the struggle with anger in their own lives, and how Jesus displaces it with a growing security in his affection and care for our lives.

Darin Hufford, the author of The God’s Honest Truth joins Wayne and Brad in a discussion about the character of God and whether or not we can ever comprehend just how good he is. In his book Darin’s takes the statement “God is love” and holds it against God’s description of love in I Corinthians 13. In doing so it becomes painfully clear that the God religion teaches us about is exactly the opposite of the God Paul wanted us to know. You’ll enjoy Darin’s heart and humor. You can find out more about Darin and his book at the Free Believers Network website.

Brad and Wayne are back from their second trip to New York with an inbox full of some wonderful and insightful emails from their podcast two weeks ago about “Who is This God?” In the interest of expanding the conversation, they take some time to interact with those emails, adding the insights others have gleaned and commenting further about the gracious way the God of the Ages has chosen to reveal himself to people like us.

Listener reaction to the podcast Wayne and Brad did two weeks ago with Paul, opens up a new discussion about a hunger for real relationships among brothers and sisters. They talk about how our insecurities and self-focused preoccupation can subvert the very relationships God wants to give us, and how only his healing can change that. They also discuss how relationships grow from the simple risk to spend time with a stranger and the friendships that can grow from loving who God puts before you each day without expectation. They end up discussing the difference between relationships that grow organically in life and how attempts we make to organize that often result in someone just building another pen to contain God’s people.

A recent Chuck Colson Breakpoint Commentary takes on The Shack for an alleged low view of Scripture and for diminishing the glory of God. As Wayne and Brad respond to his premise, and other listener email, they find themselves probing the question, “Who Is This God?” Is he the angry judge waiting for the opportunity to destroy those who won’t do things his way, or is he reaching out with love and compassion for those who are lost in sin? How you view God will decisively affect not only how you live with him and but also what you pass on to others of his life and nature.

Paul Young, author of The Shack was in town to join Brad and Wayne at a presentation at Fuller Theological Seminary. So they added Paul to their podcast for a conversation about living in the joy of Father’s working. They talk about how important it is that each of us know we matter to God and that what he does in us each day matters, about the joy of relationship that comes out of others-focused lives and the fruit that such collaboration means, about true submission and how we can discover those connections God is bringing to our own lives.

Here is part two of Brad and Wayne’s discussion with Dave Coleman, a long-time friend of Wayne’s and his co-writer on So You Don’t Want to Go To Church Anymore. Here they continue their free-ranging discussion about the failure of religion to subvert the power of sin in our lives and free us to live fully and completely in the life of Jesus. Here they talk about transformational love as they refer to an article that Dave wrote called Why Religion Doesn’t Work and talk about the importance of becoming settled in the Father’s affection so that we don’t have to strive to control people and events around us.

Dave Coleman, a long-time friend of Wayne’s and his co-writer on So You Don’t Want to Go To Church Anymore, joins Wayne and Brad for a free-ranging discussion about the failure of religion to subvert the power of sin in our lives and free us to live fully and completely in the life of Jesus. They discuss an article that Dave wrote called Why Religion Doesn’t Work, a powerful look at how legalism destroys the power of the gospel by turning our attention away from Jesus and feeding our own need to control others and events around us.

Wayne and Brad return from New York City sharing some of their experiences, before listener response takes them into a discussion about what real friendship looks like, both with God and with others. They talk about the value of encouragement, the disturbing reality of substituting ritual for a relationship, and making celebrities out of brothers and sisters instead of continuing to the celebrate friendship. In the course of their conversation, Wayne shares from a new book he has been enjoying: The End of Religion: Encountering the Subversive Spirituality of Jesus by Bruxy Cavey.

An experience with Brad and his daughter learning to downhill ski opens up a dialog with Wayne about our passion to see others grow and freeing them for an adventurous journey instead of building their dependence on us or our program. Growing up forces us to overcome our fears and discover that God is able to work in us as we learn to live in him. They also talk about the importance of cheering each other on to that confidence as an important component to fellowship and helping others grow up in him.

It appears the doctrine police are out in full-force these days. On Internet lists, forums, blog comments and email there is a growing number of people who want to draw the lines of sound doctrine and then intimidate those who don’t conform to their views. They bully people with name-calling and false accusations, refusing to listen with others point out their distorted conclusions and they do it convinced they’re doing God a service. What to do about such people? Brad and Wayne take a look at the havoc such tactics can cause if we are driven by the need to convince others or the need to defend ourselves. Freedom in Christ means we don’t have to give in to either.

Listener interaction from their three most recent podcasts, give Wayne and Brad a chance to revisit those topics again and expand on their thoughts as well as add others to the mix. They hear again from the denominational official struggling with his place inside that structure and how important it is to follow God instead of what others think is best. They talk about living by God’s work not our own efforts and how freedom from the religious box of ‘us versus them’ allows people to see the colors of God’s glory as he reveals himself in a myriad of situations.

Two awesome letters, one from a man struggling with his identity and income inside one of the denominations and one from a woman on the mission field in Sudan invite Wayne and Brad to consider the realities of staying inside a traditional congregation structure, and the concerns about leaving it. So many people who are starting to see through the frailties of religious obligation, also see purpose in staying on to love others. How do people make that decision staying true to their conscience while being compassionate to others?

A new study of 35,000 Americans by the Pew Forum Resarach Center diagnosis the current fluidity of religious practice today. Over 44% of Americans no longer participate in the same religious expressions as their parents did, and the fastest growing segment are the “unaffiliated” who don’t identify with any specific religious group. Brad and Wayne dive into those statistics and the hope that people are tiring of religious ritual and yet still seeking a valid and cohesive faith. In the process they talk about the difficult process of having our religious expectations overrun by reality and having to look again at the New Testament promise and how Jesus invites us to live it out. Also, they announce that the people at Family Room Media have released their fourth and final video in the Church Without Walls series.

A fourteen-year old boy, who identified himself as a gay student was shot in the head last week by another student in a computer lab at school not far from where Brad and Wayne live. Reactions to this event have divided the community over discrimination and sexual orientation issues in the public school. That event and Wayne’s recent trip to Kansas provoke a discussion about how we engage sin in the world. Do we as Christians react in our fear instead of with respond with love and truth to the most marginalized people in our society. What this tells us about our view of sin may tell us more than we want to admit.

Fear dominates the human landscape and is used by many power brokers—politically, economically and religiously—to manipulate people to do what they wouldn’t otherwise freely choose to do. According to a recent Newsweek article brain science now shows that our response to fear in any capacity will always trump reason and rationality. Brad and Wayne respond to this article in the context of how religion has preyed up on the fears of their followers to conform them to the needs of the institution. No wonder Jesus came to set us free from fear and does that by inviting us into a relationship with a Father who loves us more than anyone on this planet ever has or ever will.

Brad and Wayne are back from the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, DC, and share some of the lessons and experiences from that journey and the people they met. Then they discuss a comment from last week’s podcast about religious people not being able to love what they do not condone. In the discourse they process how love and truth can flow together inside a relationship that allows people to know they are loved even if they don’t see things the same way.

Brad and Wayne are off to Washington, DC and didn’t have time to tape a new podcast this week. So, they decided to let you listen to a podcast of Tuesdays Together that Wayne was a guest on a couple of weeks ago during his visit to Omaha. It provides an interesting synthesis to a lot of the themes regularly discussed on The God Journey, from the nature of church, to touching the world, to Scripture, shame and grace. For new listeners this will give you a quick overview of some of our favorite passions. Enjoy!

Wayne’s back from Omaha and some interesting experience there that dovetailed with some of our past podcasts. So he and Brad process the trip and in doing so get into a discussion about learning to live at the mercy of God instead of by our own achievements or our attempts to control our lives or God’s activity. Wayne also shares a song by Kyle Knapp, one of Wayne’s hosts while he was in Omaha, who has just released a new album from his spiritual journey. (Also here are some links if you want to order a God Journey T-shirt or mug, or help with our Kenya Relief.)

The email inbox has been full as Wayne and Brad take some time to respond to the comments, questions, and insights of others. At the heart of their conversation is the recognition that our greatest tyranny is living as if we are not loved by the Father. This causes us to live independent, self-preferring lives that leaves us empty spiritually and isolated relationally. We are powerless against it in our own efforts, but as we revel in the revelation of God’s love for us we will find that relationship will negate our need to live so independently. (The music from our new theme is ‘Spirit Dance’ by <a href="mailto:[email protected]">Carl Hull</a> and used with his permission.)

Brad, Wayne and Paul (aka William P. Young) all pictured at left, continue their discussion about The Shack and how they came to be involved with this work. They also answer some of the questions listeners wanted to direct at Paul that were posted on the Forum. They range from how to pronounce Sarayu, to the nature of freedom and to whether or not Paul intended this book to advance the theology of ultimate reconciliation.