The Longing Lab

Send us Fan MailEpisode 40 Journalist Lisa A. Phillips discusses her new book First Love, exploring the emotional landscape of adolescent relationships, the significance of first loves, and how early experiences shape future romantic patterns. She shares insights on the importance of conversations around love and boundaries for teens.Journalist Lisa Phillips is the author of the book, First Love: Guiding Teens through Relationships and Heartbreak. Lisa has written about relationships, mental health, and teens for The New York Times, The Washington Post, Longreads, Psychology Today, Cosmopolitan, Salon, and other outlets. She teaches journalism and the popular “Love and Heartbreak” seminar at the State University of New York at New Paltz. She’s published two previous books: Unrequited: The Thinking Woman’s Guide to Romantic Obsession and Public Radio: Behind the Voices. Phillips began her journalism career in public radio, working for radio stations in the Midwest and Northeast for more than a decade. She is a recipient of a New York Foundation for the Arts grant lives in New York's Hudson Valley. Learn more here: https://www.lisaamyphillips.com/ In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *How her daughter inspired the book*How our first loves shape us later in life*The importance of not dismissing a kid’s crush and instead validating the pain*Identity crushes & the Jungian notion of anima and animus*How “becoming” aspects of your crush you admire can free you from your crush*The importance of redemption stories to overcome heartbreak*Why self-actualization is not a prerequisite to being in a healthy relationship*Relationships exist no matter what you call them*The realizations she had when she reached out to her first love decades later Quotes“Our first experiences with pleasure create a kind of template for future attractions…we're forming associations with the conditions of pleasure that can be very lasting throughout our lives.”“But if you've had the experience of breaking free from a pattern, which I certainly feel I did when I met my husband, that is the example of, okay, ‘I added this room to my house where it's still my house, but there's this different space that's much better, safer, more fruitful, more, fulfilling and mutual.’”“Self-actualization in certain formulations becomes an impossible goal. There are always ways we could be more together. And even if we're at peak altogetherness, challenges, including challenges in relationships, can make us feel less than whole. That's part of love.”“We still have responsibilities to each other. We have responsibilities to be clear. We have responsibilities to be responsive. And we have responsibilities to be kind.”“He wasn't a great boyfriend, but he made a great muse. And after we broke up, I really did sort of set myself on this program to become all these things that he embodied…In really a very short amount of time, the “what he was” became less important than the ways that I was embodying these qualities myself.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 39 Bobby Stuckey, James Beard award-winning restaurateur and master sommelier, discusses how he finds joy in the mundane, the essential skill of listening in hospitality to understand what customers are longing for, and how endurance running has contributed to his longevity in the profession.Bobby Stuckey, founder of the James Beard Foundation award-winning and Michelin-starred Frasca Hospitality Group, is a renowned Master Sommelier, restaurateur, winemaker, and cookbook author. With a career spanning nearly four decades, Bobby's journey from busboy to award-winning operator includes notable roles at The Little Nell and The French Laundry, where he helped earn numerous accolades, including the James Beard Foundation’s Outstanding Wine Service Award. In 2004, Bobby and his business partner Lachlan Mackinnon-Patterson opened Frasca Food and Wine in Boulder, followed by other successful ventures like Pizzeria Alberico, Sunday Vinyl, Tavernetta, Osteria Alberico and Tavernetta Vail. A passionate advocate for the industry, Bobby received Food & Wine’s Mentorship Award in 2024 and the Julia Child Award in 2025. He is also a founding member of the Independent Restaurant Coalition. When not working, Bobby enjoys spending time with his wife, Danette, listening to vinyl, running marathons, and supporting sustainable practices in the restaurant industry. Learn more here: https://www.frascafoodandwine.com/team-member/bobby-stuckey/In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *What fine dining means to different people*The importance of listening in hospitality*Why he busses tables at his own restaurants*Identifying and satisfying longing in different customers*Stuckeyisms related to preparation (i.e. the piggy bank theory)*The role endurance running has played in his life*Ways in which he’s a coach at work*Future goals Quotes“I enjoy the mundane and the normal things that sometimes people would find boring or tedious. And I find a lot of joy in that, and it reduces the longing effect.”“Sometimes I get recharged to this inspiration of the craft of hospitality through people you wouldn't think would be inspiring for my craft.”“Hospitality is not about you. It's about someone else. We're not great at it in our country. Our culture has many beautiful things. The American culture is not about hospitality. We're not about thinking about the other person. And part of thinking about the other person is listening.”“If we just obsess about perfection, it's unobtainable. So, what we have to do is do the best and work on our craft every day…We need those Friday nights, though, because then we learn skill sets that you can't read in a manual. How do you change gears and how do you stay like a swan when, wow, it seems like everything's up against you.”“Running to me is part of my whole ecosystem of longevity in this profession.”“Things that I would love to see have nothing to do with awards for Frasca. I think, at the moment, I would love to see policy writers on the civic level, the state level, and the federal level understand restaurants better.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 38:  Flirt coach Benjamin Camras reveals what he's learned about longing, belonging, connection, and self-love, both through his personal dating experience and as a dating coach.  He shares ways he helps others navigate the complexities of dating and relationships.Benjamin Camras is a flirt and dating coach sharing his love of flirting and BFE - big flirt energy - with the world! A lifelong introvert and socially anxious member of society, Benjamin now helps singles and daters alike flirt with more confidence, clarity, and fun! As the flirt is all about connection, Benjamin helps the flirt community (the Flirties!) date from a place that allows the value of connection in all forms - platonic, romantic, and with the self - to take center stage. Ultimately, this practice of connection helps flirters and daters alike create stronger relationships, transcend limiting beliefs, and develop an unwavering love for the self. His work has been featured in Fortune, NBC News, The Huffington Post, Men's Health, and Yoga Journal. In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *The connection between practicing yoga and longing*His evolution from city planner to The Flirt Coach*The video he made on flirting that encouraged him to start flirt coaching*His personal challenges being single at 40 and coaching others on flirting*His “coming out story”*Limerence in queer individual*Fears he most hears clients admit*His struggles with depression and anxiety*How his mantra “Begin Again” helps you get out of your head and into the flirt*The concept of the “solo date” to practice flirting to help nervous system adjust*The importance of being a hopeful romantic Quotes“Once you come out, it's definitive. It's something you can't take back. It's out there and it will change your life forever. Not necessarily in negative ways. It can certainly be in positive ways, but it is a life-changing moment. And it's something that you have to do again and again and again. One of the biggest reasons I didn't wanna come out was because I didn't wanna have to have this conversation over and over.”"For some people [in high school], I was the only gay person they knew, which was a lot of pressure.  Like, how am I supposed to be? There weren't a lot of role models to look to at that time...I didn't know of a single gay man in my life that was in a relationship. That was married, that had a family, a healthy partnership in all the ways that a lot of relationship practitioners and gurus talk about it and a lot of the ways I talk about it too. I didn't see that anywhere in my life.  I had limerence with this idea of something that I didn't know could exist because I didn't see it.”“I work with a fair amount of people that are in their 40s, 50s, 60s and haven't really dated that much or haven't had a relationship. 'What if it doesn't happen for me?' is the thought a lot of people have. It's a thought that I have, which I feel like is the quiet part I'm not supposed to say, but it's true.”"It's almost easier to be sad and miserable for me than it is to be happy. I've long struggled with mental health and depression, anxiety. And that's a big part of why I do what I do is hoping to help people feel less lonely. One of the greatest antidepressants in the whole world is connection.”“A lot of luck is saying yes to opportunities. A lot of luck is going to that thing as a single person by yourself that you maybe don't want to go to but doing it anyway. So a lot of timing and luck you do have control over, but the universe also is going to wave its invisible hands.”“We don’t always have to stay in the waiting rooms of our lives.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 37: Lana Manikowski (a certified life coach, infertility advocate, and the author of So Now What?) shares her personal journey navigating infertility, how it shaped her life, and practical strategies for reconnecting with one's body and finding purpose beyond motherhood. She highlights the importance of creating a new narrative regardless of societal expectations.Lana Manikowski is a certified life coach, author, and infertility advocate who helps women thrive after infertility. After a seven-year fertility journey that ended without children, she created the support she yearned for but was never offered. She went on to write the bestselling book So Now What?, founded The Other’s Day Brunch, an annual event honoring women without children, and hosts The "So Now What?" Podcast. Through her coaching and community, Lana guides women to release shame, heal their relationship with their bodies, strengthen their marriages or partnerships, and reconnect in meaningful relationships with friends and family who have children. She helps childless women create purposeful, joyful lives beyond motherhood. She holds advanced certifications in grief and post-traumatic growth and is a proud member of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM) and an active volunteer with the National Infertility Association, RESOLVETo learn more about Lana visit her website: https://lanamanikowski.comIn this episode, (in order) we talked about: Longing as a guiding beacon How infertility can lead to feelings of failure & why self-compassion is essentialHow reconnecting with the body involves appreciation beyond reproductionWhy purpose can be found in how we show up in the world (not just through motherhood)How friendships may evolve during one's journey of fertilityPractical strategies to help in healing and self-acceptanceHow to better show up for ourselves on a daily basisWhy she didn't want her book cover to look like a sympathy cardThe top 27 things people say when you're childless and how to respond Quotes"Here I was (an) unexplained and failed patient. That really got into my psyche. Like, did I do something wrong? Did I not pay attention enough? Did I not take my medications at the right time? Did I do something in my past that I am being punished for?""I had an animosity towards my body that it didn't show up for me. So, I sort of gave up on my body and felt like it was broken and failed anyway. And I started working with a weight loss coach, and turns out she was a life coach, and that was what exposed me to the principles of life coaching.""I think it's really important to allow ourselves to show up for ourselves first, and we're not often given that opportunity by society.""There are so many things that our body does and so many new challenges that we can offer our body if we can let go of parenthood or motherhood or caring a child or conceiving as being the only thing that we see our body useful for.""Why are we, as childless women, looking at ourselves without purpose? What if I'm not the person that needs to declare my purpose, but people take the beautiful pieces of me and, through that, my purpose is created. What if we just show up in our life and feel connected to who we are? Your purpose is super easy because you are impacting the people around you and giving them gifts because of who you are.""There are moments where I see a mother baby interaction, and I still get sad. But getting sad doesn't mean that I'm still not growing."

Send us Fan MailEpisode 36 Columbia University Professor of Music Walter Frisch explores how longing is expressed in 19th and 20th-century music, particularly in the works of composers like Schumann, Wagner, and Arlen. Frisch also shares the lesser-known historic details on the development of the iconic song of longing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow."Walter Frisch is the H. Harold Gumm/Harry and Albert von Tilzer Professor of Music at Columbia University, where he has taught since 1982. He has lectured on music throughout the United States, and in England, France, Spain, Germany, and China.  Frisch is a specialist in the music of composers from the Austro-German sphere in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and in American popular song.  His books include German Modernism: Music and the Arts (2005), Music in the Nineteenth Century (2012), Arlen and Harburg’s “Over the Rainbow” (2017), and Harold Arlen and His Songs (2024). He is currently working on a book about the classic French film musical The Umbrellas of Cherbourg. Frisch has been awarded fellowships from the National Endowment for the Humanities, the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation in Germany, the Center for Scholars and Writers at the New York Public Library, and Columbia’s Institute for Ideas and Imagination in Paris. Learn more about Frisch at: https://music.columbia.edu/bios/walter-frisch In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *How Robert Schumann’s infatuation for pianist Clara Wieck inspired his music composition*The unresolved harmony in Richard Wagner’s Opera Tristan and Isolde *How Henri Berlioz’s object of longing, Irish actress Harriet Smithson, inspired his piece Symphonie Fantastique *Terms of longing used in music composition like “vague de passion"*Why “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” almost got cut from the movie The Wizard of Oz*How Harold Arlen composed the song “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”*Why MGM hoped “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” would outshine Disney’s “Someday My Prince Will Come”—both known as an “I want” song in musical parlance*How “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” made it out of MGM and was recorded and released (1938) before The Wizard of Oz (1939) by big band singer Bea Wain*What the song meant to Judy Garland throughout her life*The introduction to “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” that is often not sungQuotes“Sometimes we call it dissonance and consonance, or things that are unstable and stable, and very often, that pattern can sort of be linked to, or feel like it's connected to longing, a state of tension that longs for resolution."“There's a melody [on top of this Tristan chord] that creeps upward in very small intervals, and it seems to be going somewhere, but not quite getting there…So that becomes part of this musical language of longing.”“Wagner's view of longing and passion was influenced by the philosopher Schopenhauer, who, in turn, was influenced by Buddhism. There is this sense (that) you can never really overcome the suffering within this world. It's only in another world or in another sphere that you can find satisfaction.”“In the middle section of the song, called a bridge, where Dorothy sings, “That's where you'll find me,” and before she goes back to the opening melody, on “find” that chord is the most dissonant, most kind of unresolved chord in the song, at the moment of greatest tension, so sort of like Schumann or Wagner.”“The two composers that I've written the most about are Brahms from the 19th century and Harold Arlen from the 20th century. They never knew each other. They were totally different kinds of people. But in both their music, there is a sense of longing and yearning, even melancholy….it really speaks to me.” 

Send us Fan MailEpisode 35 Feminist journalist and author of The Sex Myth, Rachel Hills discusses what she’s learned about sex as a source of power, the sex myths many of us believe, and how the sexual revolution didn’t really liberate us. Hills also highlights the social pressures she personally felt not having sex until her mid-20s. Rachel Hills is a feminist journalist and non-fiction writer based in Brooklyn, New York. She began her career contributing features and opinion pieces to the Sydney Morning Herald in her native Australia in her early 20s, going on to write for publications across six continents, including The Atlantic, Buzzfeed, Cosmopolitan, Elle, Fusion, The Guardian, The New Inquiry, The New Republic, New York Magazine, New York Times, TIME, Vogue, Washington Post, and more. Rachel’s first book The Sex Myth is about the invisible rules and assumptions that shape the way we think about sex. Her second book, The Whole Mother, looks at how we can liberate motherhood so that women don’t feel like they need to choose between having a child and existing in the world as their full selves. Follow Rachel on her Heart Talk Substack: https://rachelhills.substack.com/In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *The impetus for writing The Sex Myth*The most common myth she discovered doing research for the book*How labels both serve and harm us*Why trust and kindness could be the key to true liberation*Ways in which we are encouraged to avoid emotional vulnerability in society*The optimistic and realistic view of motherhood her new book The Whole Mother  Quotes“The core of the sex myth, similar to the beauty myth, is this idea that the way that we engage with sex reflects who we are and reflects our value in the world.”“The fact that I was not having sex was kind of my greatest source of shame... I felt like it was this big secret that I was carrying at the time that I could not share with anybody because if I did, I felt like that would change the way that they thought about me, from what I hoped they perceived as being an attractive, fun, well-liked person and progressive feminist to…a loser, unattractive, and secretly conservative.”“When I was working on the book and talking to people...they would often say to me in a kind of confession-esque way, ‘Oh, you wouldn't believe…my sex life is really unusual.’ And then sometimes they would say to me the thing that seemed the most usual thing ever.”“If I'd lived in a different sexual culture—not just in terms of the ideals, but in terms of how people treated each other—perhaps I would have felt more able to have had sex outside of a loving relationship—not for my first time, perhaps, but later on. If I knew that I could have sex with somebody in a casual sense, and they would treat me with respect and kindness the next day, then that would be amazing. And frankly, it would be hugely liberating.”“One of the myths within The Sex Myth is that older millennials, like myself, had been sold this idea that we were now liberated. But in fact, what we had been sold as liberation was a new set of standards, and in some ways, a new form of oppression, or at least regulation.“As I look at what happened in the history of the sexual revolution and its consequences over the last 60 years, the problem is…it made the ideal to be to say, ‘yes,’ but it didn't necessarily make it physically safe to say yes, emotionally safe to say yes, pleasurable to say yes. It didn't always allow you to say yes and keep your inner sense of humanity intact.” “We're told that if we want to be mothers and have a life outside of motherhood, that is an unrealistic [and] selfish desire, that it's not inherent to what motherhood is. But I believe that

Send us Fan MailEpisode 34 Dylan Thomas Doyle (PhD) discusses the use of AI in creating "griefbots," which simulate deceased loved ones. Doyle-Burke emphasizes the ethical considerations, potential harms, and psychological impacts of grief-related technology. He highlights the need for careful design and regulation. Doyle-Burke also mentions ongoing research and the cultural nuances of grief across different societies.Dr. Dylan Thomas Doyle is a researcher at the University of Colorado Boulder who studies the intersection of grief and technology. His research focuses on the ethics of designing AI griefbots – chatbots that are being made to look and sound like our loved ones who have passed away. Dylan is an ordained Unitarian Universalist minister, a hospital chaplain, and the host of popular AI Ethics Podcast, The Radical AI Podcast, and the AI-tocracy podcast. Connect with him at [email protected] In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *How griefbots are created from data and what kind of data is used*Griefbot lingo like fidelity and hallucinations*Questions and concerns he has for griefbot developers*The problems that arise with monetizing grief*Different types of griefbot users and what they want in a griefbot*Differences between greifbots and prayer as tools to deal with grief *Why griefbots can psychologically short-circuit” grief*Narrative therapy practices using griefbots*The future of griefbots for the death of a romantic relationship (i.e. divorce)*How cultural perspectives influence our view of griefbots Quotes“Griefbots are one way that people can plug into that longing and really try to understand who we are and what the world means to us and what we mean to the world.”“People talk about elegant code. What does an elegant code look like for a griefbot, a technology that is about death and loss.”“I never have have done that [made griefbots] yet for myself. It makes me feel weird, so I don't do it. And I think that feeling of weirdness is one of the reasons why I like to study it. Because, at the same time, I have talked to people who use these grief bots, and they really do help them heal.”“The reason why people get into the death industry in general is because they've lost someone, or they've had a really bad experience of not getting the support or comfort that they've needed when they've had a loved one die, and so they say to themselves, I can do this better.”“For the people who are using these grief bots, I think what they're longing for is comfort in the face of the unknown.”“There's a concern and danger that we're just going to have instant gratification for grief, which is kind of kind of scary because grief generally needs time to process.”“Everyone really does have their own cultural, familial, personal, religious relationship with this word that we call death. I don't think that the solution for bringing comfort is to just build a faster course, to just build a better chatbot that will help us overcome death—which is what some of these companies claim. I think the real solution is to figure out how to use this technology in the same way that we have other tools to help us work through death and work through grief.” 

Send us Fan MailEpisode 33 Dr. Ravin Alaei explores the relationship between music lyrics and attachment styles. In a study of 500 participants, lyrics of ~4,700 songs were analyzed to quantify avoidance, security, and anxiety. Results showed that people with avoidant attachment styles preferred songs with more avoidant lyrics, while those with secure attachment styles preferred more secure lyrics. Another study analyzed Billboard charts from 1949 to 2015, finding modern songs are more avoidant and less secure than older ones. The conversation also touches on the potential therapeutic value of music and songwriting, and the influence of music on attachment styles, particularly during formative years.Dr. Ravin Alaei is family physician at Western University in Ontario, Canada. He received his doctorate in psychology from the University of Toronto. He was also the lead author on a study published in the Journal of Personal Relationships in September 2022 titled, “Individuals’ favorite songs’ lyrics reflect their attachment style.” In this episode, (in order) we talked about:*The different attachment styles*The study he did that looked if individuals select songs based on their attachment styles*The study that examined if recent Western popular music reflects the increasing individualism/avoidance Western culture has been experiencing  *How his research assistants coded song lyrics to be anxious, avoidant, or secure*How both attachment styles and music preferences are developed in teen years*Whether our attachment styles influence the songs we are drawn to or vice versa*Certain music artists who have lyrics that are anxious, avoidant, or secure *The impact of self-made breakup albums*The tipping point between music being cathartic and being detrimental Quotes“What we found was that modern day songs are far more avoidant than older songs. They're far less secure than older songs, whereas anxiety has actually remained pretty steady across the years in terms of the West's most popular songs.”“Instead of it being about the survey respondent, we just said, ‘How much do you think the protagonist in this song is expressing the need for self-reliance versus the need for the partner or longing for the partner or receiving the partner’s attention. So, it was the exact same scale you would use to find out an individual's attachment style.”“So many songs from the past 20-30 years often will have some sort of insecure elements in them even if it is expressing security, at some points. It's tough to find a purely secure song from modern day music.”“I would love to see the impacts that listening to songs from of a certain attachment style have on your ‘in the moment’ emotions and thoughts and expectations of relationships.”“There is some research that songwriting is therapeutic. So, if there's a listener right now who is longing, consider songwriting or writing, writing it down into lyrics, seeing if you can express it in that way, because lyrics provide that space for you to do that and then that might be therapeutic for you. The second thing is to take a step back and really analyze the music that you're listening to and the message it's sending to you. See if you think that's helping you or being detrimental.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 32 Psychologist Nirit Soffer-Dudek explains maladaptive daydreaming, a clinical phenomenon where fantasy becomes a highly disabling and distressing addiction. She discusses fuels, triggers, treatments and why/how it’s often misdiagnosed.Nirit Soffer-Dudek, PhD is an associate professor at the Department of Psychology at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, and a licensed clinical psychologist. Her research focuses on the clinical and personality correlates of consciousness states including dissociative states, nocturnal dreaming, and daydreaming. Prof. Soffer-Dudek is also a past president of the International Society for Maladaptive Daydreaming (ISMD) and the scientific director of the International Consortium for Maladaptive Daydreaming Research (ICMDR).In this episode, (in order) we talked about:*What is maladaptive daydreaming and how it’s similar to an addiction (3:45)*Why clinical psychologist and professor Eli Somer coined the term maladaptive daydreaming (MDD) to describe what many researchers had previously described as the personality trait of “fantasy proneness” (11:00)*How MDD impacts a person’s ability to function in daily life (13:45)*Literature and movies where MDD was illustrated before it was formerly coined (15:00)*Fuel and triggers for MDD (22:00)*Disorders people with MDD have usually been diagnosed as having have (also or instead) (26:30)*Why, for people experiencing MDD, daydreaming is an itch you have to scratch (30:00)*The difference between limerence and MDD (32:00)*How MDD is different from PTSD that involves flashbacks (38:00)*Common themes in MDD daydreams: idealized self, a sense of being wanted and taken care of, and elaborate sexual narratives (40:30)*Therapeutic techniques that help: Self-monitoring, practicing mindfulness, and investing in one’s real life (42:00) Quotes“So, just imagine that you had this ability to watch TV all the time. You had Netflix in your head. It would be very difficult not to use it if you're not really interested in what's going on around you, or what's going on around you is causing you some anxiety. You have this internal button that you can press. Some people do press it actively, and some people say that it just comes to them without even actively trying to do it.”“They feel shame, they feel guilt, they feel they can't achieve their goals. They feel so attached to their characters. It embarrasses them. They feel like they can't necessarily develop other meaningful relationships because they're too attached to these characters.”“One of our studies showed that 70% of the people we interviewed who have maladaptive daydreaming also met criteria for ADHD, most of them the inattention only type.”“It's not just a distraction. It’s not just imagining how you'll talk to your boss tomorrow about giving you too many shifts. It's something which is very creative. It's really deep in terms of the storylines. It's very intricate and fanciful, and people can really get into it for hours and hours.”“Limerence doesn't have to be all about daydreaming. And maladaptive daydreaming doesn't have to be about an infatuation.”“Among people who are trauma survivors that have maladaptive daydreaming, sometimes their daydreams are about trauma, but not necessarily the trauma that they had. And they're not necessarily in the same role or position that they were. For example, they could be perpetrators, they could be rescued.”“It’s a normal phenomenon that has to be, not eradicated completely, but kind of mitigated back to its normal size, instead of being blown up and replacing your actual life.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 31 Journalist Anna Goldfarb discusses the complexities of modern friendships, emphasizing the impact of social media on longing and the grief in losing friends who played specific roles in our lives. During a time when it appears we have hundreds of connections, she encourages readers/listeners to become wholehearted friends with fewer.Journalist Anna Goldfarb is known as “the New York Times’ friendship correspondent." Anna’s reporting on friendships has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, and more. Her book, Modern Friendship, explores the nuances of navigating adult friendships. She also publishes Friendship Explained, a Substack newsletter that explains the mechanics of friendship through a pop culture lens. Find her online @AnnaGoldfarb. In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *How social media compounds our longing for friends*The longing we have to know our friends’ children*Why it’s easier than ever to shed friendships with less social glue*How her father’s reluctance to connect with a childhood friend just before he died inspired her to write this book*The parallel between learning music and learning how to do friendship better *Why we grieve the role our friendships played at a specific time in our lives*Why we live in unprecedented times where we have more bonds we’re expected to maintain *How the pandemic disrupting our routines changed how we do friendship*How to change your invitation to friends be more about them and less about you*The 14-Day Friendship Cleanse to becoming a whole-hearted (dedicated, committed and enthusiastic) friend*How you figure out who belongs on your list Quotes“I've naturally taken a step back from social media because it's not helpful. It's not reality. Our we're not supposed to know this much about people in our outer rings of our social life.”"It's just harder to find people, to have more enduring friendships, when your identity is so complicated."“My dad didn't come to me very often with these kinds of personal problems, and I wanted to be his hero. I wanted to solve it. I wanted to reconnect them...He was so terrified of rejection, silence, if his friend would be mad at him…there was so much uncertainty, and uncertainty creates anxiety, so he never connected." “When you learn how music works, when you learn the notes, when you learn how to create music, I mean, it's a whole different way to interact with the art form, and that's what I wanted to do with this book. Here is how the music of friendship works. Here are the notes. Here's how it's arranged. Here's why things sound good or don't sound good. This is the human equivalent of sheet music.”"Studies show we lose half our friends every seven years." "I think where a lot of people they go wrong with longing for a friendship is they think, ‘What's in it for me?’ I think the miscalculation is, ‘What's in it for them? Why would they want to connect with you?’ And when you think of it that way, it's like ...'I really want to see them succeed. I really want to be a witness to their triumphs and see them overcome challenges.'...That's a different invitation then, ‘Let's meet for drinks, because I'm bored.’”“Wholehearted friendship is my way to close the gap between the friend you want to be perceived as and the friend that you are in reality. I wanted to close that gap. The cleanse is is my strategy to get closer to those kinds of friendships.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 30 Centenarian and University of Colorado Super Fan Peggy Coppom shares wisdom about love, friendship, and prayer through stories she shares about her twin sister, Coach Prime, and her faith in God. Since her family moved from the high plains of eastern Colorado to Boulder to escape the Dust Bowl in 1939, CU football mega fan Peggy Coppom has only missed three CU home football games. She and her late twin sister Betty attended over an estimated 2,500 CU sporting events in person in nine sports: football, men's and women's basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball, track and field, lacrosse and women's tennis. Now Peggy is the one making history. This past fall Miss Peggy became the first FAN to receive an NIL deal. NIL, or name image likeness, allows athletes to accept money from businesses in exchange for using them in products or advertisements. CU Buffs Coach Prime (Deion Sanders) has become one of Peggy's biggest fans.In this episode, (in order) we talked about:*Her relationship with her identical twin sister and their decision to dress alike *How Coach Prime has helped her deal with the grief of losing her twin*What it felt like to be sung “Happy Birthday to You!” by the entire college stadium*Her “secret” to longevity: moderation*How she bounced back from breaking her hip and Covid this summer*What she misses about Boulder from the past*The importance of prayer and the prayers of your ancestors*How her Irish-Catholic upbringing developed her love for football *Her relationship with Coach Prime & her Alamo Bowl plans*What she’s still longing for*Why FOMO kept her from moving to Florida to marry a beau*How you know you’re in love Quotes“She was still warm. She had just died. So, I whispered in her ear, and I said, ‘Betty,’ I shouldn't say this because it makes me cry, ‘We were together when we came into this world, and I'm here with you now.’”“I felt so humble and so little and so amazed and blessed…To think that that many people were singing Happy Birthday, it makes me cry now. Undeserving, maybe is a good word for it.”“Betty and I always said, ‘Pray and play.’ I think in one word I would say moderation…You can overdo anything. Even sleep, you can sleep too much. You can exercise too much. I have not set out to do that, but that's the way I've lived.”“I miss going down Pearl Street and having home-owned stores of people you know, and businessmen that you know…The stores all were [owned by] people who lived here.”"I don't think it. I believe it." (in reference to her faith in God)“We were Irish Catholics, so naturally we cheered for Notre Dame…we knew when fall came and Saturdays came, it was football on the radio.”“I don't feel like a lucky charm. I feel lucky.”“I've had interviews ask me what one word I would use to describe him (Coach Prime), and [what] immediately came up to me [was] honorable.“What I'm longing is for is for my kids to all be healthy and safe. And I pray for them mainly to get to heaven, at the age I am.”“I never heard my mom and dad say a cross word for each other ever. And Betty and I both have said that was not a normal life for us to not ever hear our parents argue or anything. Because the first time my husband lost it, and it wasn't over anything I did,…I found out that somebody can lose their temper, and they're not going to get a divorce.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 29 Steph Hauser shares the miraculous birth story of her son Zev, born at 23 weeks (halfway through Steph’s pregnancy) with a 1% survival rate, and the difficult choices they faced. She explains how her "Tell me what's good" strategy helped them find hope and the organizations they began to support NICU families.Steph Hauser is a writer, podcaster, ultrarunner, and the founder and Executive Director of 4those, a nonprofit dedicated to providing hope, healing and possibility for former micropreemies and their families. This year, she ran 14.7 miles for 147 days (in a row!) to raise money for and bring awareness to the journey many families endure in the NICU. Her story has been featured in Runner’s World Magazine, local and international news outlets, and on a variety of podcasts and stages. Steph is also the host of The Zev Project, a podcast that shares her own journey around extreme prematurity, including the “Tell Me What’s Good” strategy that carried her through their 147 days in the NICU. Steph co-owns FOX•DOG COFFEE with her husband Ben and lives in Louisville, CO, with Ben, their dog, and their four boys. Learn more at 4those.orgIn this episode, (in order) we talked about:*Why longing as an anchor to your past *How this pregnancy was different than her first (even before delivery)*Chorioamnionitis, the intraamniotic infection she had*How do you define viability*How “Tell me what’s good” approach helped create a fuller narrative *Miracle guilt*The important role surrender played in their situation*How Zev’s micro-prematurity miracle has shaped their family dynamics*How their organization 4those.org serves families in the NICU*Why she ran 14.7 miles for 147 consecutive days Quotes“Longing for me in that season with ZEV created a great foil for us to sort of look at what we were tying ourselves to past, present, future. What we saw, what we wanted, what we were hoping for…[Longing] joined and partnered with surrender.“We went from a 0% chance survival to helicoptering down to a hospital where we were given a less than a 1% chance of survival. So, it's not like we suddenly had all these great odds in our favor. However, there was a spirit at this hospital that just said, ‘Hey, we don't know what's going to come. You've got a less than 1% chance here, but do you want to take it now?’”“We were given the chance, and so we decided to take it and that baby, at 23 weeks gestation, came out of the womb with no lungs, and the first thing he did was cry. This little human just came out and just proclaimed to the world that, against all odds, he was here, and he was fighting.”“The doctor turns to us, and she's crying, and says, ‘Your son is dying, but he's in there and he's fighting.’”“It was believing that whether ZEV lived, died or never, never, never, that whatever happened, love or God, however you identify it, would come through, would walk beside us in whatever road came.”“There were times in the NICU when [my husband and I] were just floating on separate life rafts in the same ocean, like we were tied together by a string on separate life rafts, experiencing our own things, our own pasts are coming into play.”“If you asked my husband, he would say that God felt very quiet in that time, that God was not very close in that season. And for me, I felt like it was like a front row seat to watching miracles happen all over the place in there…we watched our child be stitched together into humanness.”“Instead of running away from the hard thing, it brought all pieces of it to the forefront for me, the good, the bad, the glory, the struggle, the grief, you know, the joy all of it. It was like, instead of run

Send us Fan MailEpisode 28  Psychiatrist and mindfulness research leader Dr. Jud Brewer explains the neural mechanisms of longing (i.e. romantic obsession) and the differences between excitement (contraction) and joy (expansion). Brewer discusses how mindfulness training reduces cravings and anxiety to help individuals manage their habits and emotions.Jud Brewer MD PhD is the Director of Research and Innovation at the Mindfulness Center and professor in Behavioral and Social Sciences and Psychiatry at the Schools of Public Health & Medicine at Brown University. Brewer is an internationally known expert in mindfulness training for addictions. He has developed and tested novel mindfulness programs for habit change.  He has also studied the underlying neural mechanisms of mindfulness using standard and real-time fMRI and EEG neurofeedback. Brewer is a New York Times best-selling author of Unwinding Anxiety, The Craving Mind, and The Hunger Habit.  Learn more at https://drjud.com/ In this episode, (in order) we talked about:*How longing activates the self-referential default mode network in the brain (especially the posterior cingulate cortex)*The trigger-behavior-reward pattern (the explore/exploit survival mode), and how it relates to finding a romantic partner*The difference between contracted excitement and expansive joy*Intermittent reinforcement that keeps our brains on the hook of uncertainty*Unconditional love (supportive, solid, connected) compared to infatuation (excitement, anticipatory)*The link between the deactivation of the default mode network and experienced meditators*Why curiosity (nonjudgement) is our superpower when it comes to breaking bad habits*How negative prediction error leads to disenchantment with behavior*Why worrying gives us a false sense of control *How mindfulness improves certain eating disorders*Hedonic hunger (food associated with emotions) Quotes“Longing is a slow want.”“The more obsessed somebody was with their partner, the more activated a particular region in this [default mode] network was.”"Dopamine shifts from learning, ‘Oh, this is a good food source,’ to becoming this motivation molecule, which is often how it's described in the addiction field. It drives us to go do something once we've learned that it is something ‘desirable.’”“A lot of coiling action happens when we're obsessing over somebody, or we're thinking how great the last date was, or we can't wait until the next date. There's that anticipation that coils and coils and coils. And it can be excessively coiled with things like instant messaging and texting, where we don't know when the next text is going to come. We don't know what it's going to say. There's a lot of uncertainty that gets our brain all wound up.”“I think often people mistake excitement for happiness, because there's that 'I'm alive' quality of experience that comes with it.”“Curiosity, first off, feels more expanded than contracted…Instead of being identified with [the obsessive thought] or caught up in worry, [people] can get curious and replace that unhelpful habit that leads to contraction with a helpful habit of being curious or even being kind to themselves if their habit was to judge themselves.”"Just bringing awareness in and seeing that [worrying] is not very rewarding helps us become disenchanted with the behavior.”“We don’t need to be meditating to be mindful. It’s about being in the present moment and being curious.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 27 Feminist author Elissa Bassist discusses her experiences with longing while warping her voice in academia, relationships, and medical settings. She shares her two-year journey with physical pain misunderstood and dismissed by many doctors and how it highlights the internalized patriarchy that leads women to suppress their voices.Elissa Bassist is the editor of the “Funny Women” column on The Rumpus and author of Hysterical, a semifinalist for The Thurber Prize for American Humor. As a founding contributor to The Rumpus, she’s written cultural and personal criticism since the website launched in 2009. Her next book, INSIDE JOKES: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers, is coming in 2026. Learn more about Elissa's writing and courses she teaches at www.elissabassist.com In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *How patriarchy has taught women to suppress their voice*Her journey trying to find a diagnosis for her physical pain*How medical community makes it difficult to acknowledge sexual violence*Learning to love her voice *Why she is learning to ditch men who think she’s asking for too much *Her new book, Inside Jokes, with Caitlin Kunkel*Advice she has for women on reclaiming their voiceQuotes"Longing is obsessive liking that feels like love but isn’t because it’s one sided. It feels like this encompassing feeling that completely hijacks every other feeling and thought. It feels like a virus."“I was further diagnosed with an obsessive fear of saying the wrong thing that made me compulsively edit, censor and silence myself, and that had manifested into physical pain. And I was like, 'That sounds like magic!' And then the more research I did, the more I saw that repressed emotional pain can become physical pain. We can make ourselves sick. So, in getting my voice back, I was in less and less pain.”“I first actively remember suppressing and warping my voice to get this one particular boy to love me back. And with your voice goes your personality, your identity, your sense of self, your agency, your independence. There's so much wrapped up in voice…It seemed like just something easy to do that would get him to love me, and it did not work. It just ended up making myself sick, ultimately."“Longing is so generative. And one of my students just told me recently, a crush makes you creative. And I was like, oh yes! That's why I feel like it lights me up. It makes me feel alive. It's my best writing. I learned to write because of this person. I also learned to lose my voice because of this person.”“I just wanted to play this game, to never have the game end, but I still wanted to win the game, and I wanted to prove to myself and everyone else, and to him especially, that I could win him. But at the same time, he was this unwinnable object.” “Pain makes you so desperate for definition that you'll take any definition. When I got this definition of 'shredded cervix…like you have given vaginal birth,' I was like, 'Oh my God! …. I can now tell people what had happened to me.'”“It got to a point where, when nobody else believes you, you stop believing yourself. So I finally had this acknowledgement, which was also proof.”“I feel like when you're longing, you're hoping someone's gonna make you whole… And once you win, you can finally accept yourself. And you're never going to get that from longing…There's no reward. There's no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow because there is no end.”“I just want people to be crazy, be dramatic, be emotional, be too much. I feel like the lie that we have been fed just benefits people who aren't us, and that we have to stop shrinking ourselves, making ourselves the small

Send us Fan MailEpisode 26 Alex Stewart, the influencer behind the hit podcast Swipe Fat, discusses how body shaming shapes romantic longing, the polarizing use of words like “fat,” the impact of weight loss drugs on the body positivity movement, and why you should never wait til you're X size to do something.Alex Stewart is an influencer and the voice behind the Instagram and TikTok account, Sassy Confetti. She is a proud Chicagoan who tries to inspire her audience to get out there and try new experiences, eat new foods and be bold in their lives and style! She has been featured as a style expert in InStyle and done speaking engagements for The BodCon, Fox News 12, NBC's Chicago Today and more. She is also the co-host of the podcast Swipe Fat about dating while plus size. Her podcast has been featured in Huffington Post, The Washington Post, and the New York Times as a podcast that is breaking barriers for size inclusivity. Learn more at sassyconfetti.com In this episode, (in order) we talked about: * Generational patterns of perfecting one another*Reclaiming the word “fat” *How body shame shapes romantic longing *How women self-sabotage dating situations*The importance of in-person connections*Her experience losing her virginity*Why not to say, "I'll do it when I'm thinner."*Decisions around diet drugs like Ozempic and the fear of being seen a hypocrite*How she uses her platforms to support plus-size women and what she's learned from followers*Advice she has for men dating plus-size women Quotes“I think for plus sized women too, we don't want to look lazy…there's this other perfectionism. My makeup needs to look perfect. My hair needs to look perfect. I need to look cute. There's this hyper femininity aspect of it, where you want to present yourself as perfectly as possible, so that people can't pick you apart because you have this one thing that's not socially acceptable. So how do I make sure that the rest of me is like, perfect?” “How do you how do you let someone in enough to trust them to see my body and not judge me?”“I've definitely gotten myself in situationships since, and a lot of those are long distance…it's just easier to let someone in if they aren't near you, which is so weird, because it's a slow burn. They edge their way in, and all of a sudden, you're like, wait, no, I like you and I'm sad you’re not here.”"It's either like picking people that aren't available or picking people that they don't really like but they think ‘This is what I'm capable of,’ or ‘I only think I can deserve this.’”“Why are we waiting for when? When you are yourself right now, it really doesn't matter what size you are. You can have all those things at any size or any part of your journey…Just because places aren't built for us, doesn't mean that we can't take up space in them.”“When I was growing up, if you had given me a magic pill that had made me the size that I wanted to be, I would have taken it. And so now, to be presented with that option, and have done all this work to mentally feel like I'm worthy and like I am fine in this…To now have this onslaught of people just talking about it incessantly is very difficult. I have to have this mental journey with myself every day to be like, ‘You are fine the way you are. You do not need these drugs. It's not going to fix you.’”“I think, unfortunately, most women feel like they're not going to meet someone because they're not good enough or pretty enough, or whatever. I think we see that even more so with fat people because we're consistently told through the media and through society that we aren't good enough and that we would be enough if we were smaller.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 25 Neuroscientist and owner of Livingwithlimerence.com Dr. Tom Bellamy explains what is happening in the brain when one experiences limerence, what makes it scientifically so difficult to disrupt, and strategies to practice to stop limerenceTom Bellamy is an academic neuroscientist and Associate Professor at the University of Nottingham in the UK. His research involves studying the fundamental mechanisms of the brain (the nuts and bolts of synaptic signaling), but he also writes about how this fundamental neuroscience can make sense of the experience of limerence. He has blogged at Livingwithlimerence.com for seven years under the pseudonym "Dr L" but has now decided to step out of the shadows with the publication of a new book "Smitten" that summarizes everything he's learned about limerence over the years.  In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*When limerence can become a dysfunctional behavior*Limerent Limbo *Three elements required for a person to fall into limerence: 1) someone who provokes the glimmer in you, 2) some hope for reciprocation and 3) uncertainty*The statistics on limerence based on a random survey of 1500 people (~60% said they had experienced limerence)*Why he started writing his blog seven years ago that has now attracted over 120,000 views a month*Three brain systems that are interrelated: Arousal system, reward system, bonding system *The disenfranchised grief felt during limerence*Why he’s skeptical of limerence just stemming from childhood trauma*Personality traits in LOs (i.e. narcissism, avoidant, dismissive) that might generate uncertainty in a relationship and thus making one more likely to develop limerence *Mental tasks to get out of the altered state of mind of limerence (undo the reward training, to diminish the strength of the reward that the LO has for you)*The importance of developing purposeful living goals to give you a sense of hope and optimism re: the future*What makes people more psychologically vulnerable to limerence (anxious attachment, ADD, unhappiness)*Why to consciously dismiss the positive anchor memories with you LO and focus on the negative ones Quotes“Limerence is an altered state of mind defined by intense romantic infatuation—an intense desire to bond emotionally with this other person that becomes the consuming obsession of your life.”“It’s not really about desire for an actual person, but how they can play a role in your romantic story. A lot of people aren’t really clear how this person would be able to satisfy this unmet craving.”“If that state of uncertainty lasts long enough, you can get caught in this altered state of person addiction. Once you’ve passed that point, it’s very difficult to get back.”“Being happily married isn’t necessarily protection against new limerence.”“I was having to deal with the cognitive dissonance of deep love for my wife but limerence for someone else.”“I think it helps when you understand there are predictable ways that these (brain) circuits can be driven into overdrive and result in this altered state.”Re: social media “The limerents are continually trying to get some kind of feedback from their limerent object but being tortured by this uncertainty. You get into that pattern of behavior where you are constantly seeking reward, but that reward isn’t coming predictably, so you get stuck in that mental trap.”“How strongly you feel limerent for another person is almost no prediction for how good a long-term partner that person is going to be for you.” “If your goal is to form a loving relationship, then don’t go for people who cause limerence in you.”“You don’t get over an

Send us Fan MailEpisode 24 Travel expert and writer Pauline Frommer illustrates how travel experiences have made her a better seeker, the importance of appreciating the ephemeral moments in travel, why the holy grail of travel is finding one’s soulmate, and the future of the travel industry with AI. Pauline Frommer is Co-President of Frommer Media LLC with her father, travel legend Arthur Frommer. They publish the Frommer’s guidebooks, now in their 65th year, with over 75 million books sold so far. Pauline was also the original editor of Frommers.com, one of the first travel sites on the web. It, too, is part of Frommer Media and receives over 12 million page views per month. Pauline is the author of countless articles, and a number of award-winning guidebooks, including Frommer’s New York City Day by Day and the upcoming Frommer’s New York City 2024. In addition to writing, editing and publishing, Pauline was the host of a nationally syndicated radio show on travel for over 20 years. She currently hosts the Frommer’s Travel Show Podcast, named one of the 13 best for travel by the New York Times. Pauline is married to Columbia University professor Mahlon Stewart, and the mother of two very well-traveled daughters.In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*How longing relates to searching for the meaning of life*How her childhood traveling made her more of a seeker *Why the holy grail of travel is finding soulmates *How travelers set themselves up for disappointment*Her perspective on influencers and how they sell their soul*How AI is stealing travel journalists’ work*Her love advice for her daughters & how it relates to travel*How both a person or a place can grow on you when you explore it more deeply*Why guidebooks can’t be replaced by influencers or AI*The trip she took she considers the most serendipitous Quotes“Longing is the exception not the rule. Longing brings us back to the fundamentals.”“I have déjà vu wherever I go, but I can’t really know if I’ve been a place before.”“I think when you’re younger you think that each experience leads to another. That you’re building something…But I’m also seeing, at this advanced age, that there are different moments in life. When you travel, everything is momentary.  Everything is transitory. Everything is a mirage. If you just embrace the temporariness of it, it can be profound.” “In order to get the free travel (influencers) are hired hands who have to gush about everything and they can’t necessarily tell the truth…By some estimates, one in every ten human beings on earth work in travel. So, there are massive corporations that are hiring these influencers and paying them a penance to replace the marketing departments they used to have. To me it seems really kind of devious on the part of these big businesses."“I think it’s important not to come to a place blindly. You get more out of travel when you read books about a place…When you really dig into it, then you’re more surprised by the place."“When you use your phone to research a place, about 50% of what you get is disguised marketing.”“If you can get past status and how luxurious a place is…If you can look at the fundamental reasons for travel, rather than the superficial ones, I think you’ll have a more fulfilling trip.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 23 Social psychologist Ellen Langer, AKA the "mother of mindfulness," explains why our perceived sense of control impacts our mental health, how longing and regret are mindless, why there are no good or bad decisions, and her new book, The Mindful body: Thinking our way to chronic health.Dr. Ellen Langer, AKA the “mother of mindfulness,” is a social psychologist and the first female professor to gain tenure in the Psychology Department at Harvard University. She is the author of twelve books and more than two hundred research articles written for general and academic readers on mindfulness for over 45 years.  Dr. Langer has written extensively on the illusion of control, mindful aging, stress, decision-making, and health. Among other honors, she is the recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship, The Liberty Science Genius Award, and the Staats award for Unifying Psychology. She is the founder of The Langer Mindfulness Institute and is a gallery exhibiting artist. Learn more here: Ellen J. Langer (harvard.edu) In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *The difference between mindfulness and meditation*How and why people try to change their romantic partners*Impact of mindfulness on satisfaction in a relationship*Why perceived sense of control results in mindfulness which results in better health*The illusion of the illusion of control*How she recommends making a decision and why regret is mindless*How to raise children to be more mindful*The key characteristics of mindfulness and mindlessness*The mindlessness of hookup culture*Abundance versus scarcity mindset *Her new book: The Mindful Body: Thinking our way to chronic health*How our sense of perceived time impacts healingQuotes“When we know we don’t know, everything becomes potentially interesting. When you don’t know, and you are actively noticing new things, you couldn’t be happier. You aren’t longing for something tomorrow, because today you are experiencing the most you can experience.” “Hope is much better than being hopeless. But hope has built into it an expectation of failure.” “When you’re actively noticing them (your partner), they feel seen....If you’re both doing this at the same time, the relationship may stay newer for a longer period of time.""What you’re always in control of is your response to whatever situation you’re met with…The situation is neither good nor bad. Stress is not a function of events. It’s a function of the view you take of the events. And you always have available to you multiple views."“Decision making is probably the biggest stressor. There is no right decision. What people should do instead, this is wild, randomly decide what to do and then make the decision work for you. We make a decision to take some action. Once you take the action, you can’t access the quality of the decision.""Given that you can’t compare them (the outcomes of different decisions), for people to experience regret is mindless."“If we get rid of the idea that there are certain things that are bad and other things that are good and that I have to worry about making the right decision so I can maximize the good and minimize the bad, life is just easy.”“We are brought up believing that there are good and bad decisions, and that also means there are good and bad deciders.”“When you’re not in the moment, you’re not there to know you’re not there.”“To desire a meaningless experience doesn’t make sense to me and it sounds mindless."“I don’t think we should do anything that feels meaningless. Even brushing your teeth. Be there!”“Everything is mutable. And the degree to which we can achieve the things we desire, that we long

Send us Fan MailEpisode 22 On May 9, 2023, five-year-old Sidney Mae Olson was struck and killed by a truck in a cross walk. Her father, Eric Olson, discusses the longing that transpired following her death and what he’s learned about himself, his relationship with his daughter, and the interconnectedness of everything. Eric Olson is an advocate for vulnerable road users like his daughter. Eric is President of the Sidney Mae Olson Rainbow Fund, which he co-founded with his wife Mary Beth Ellis to create safer, more livable communities for families. Their work to drive change while navigating grief has been featured in the media and has inspired a growing community known as “Sidney’s Rainbows.” Eric is a long-time software company leader and a dedicated supporter of his wife’s professional triathlon career. He is an avid cyclist, trail runner, and skier living in New England with his wife and 3-year-old son Ellis. #livelikearainbowLearn more about donating or volunteering at https://www.therainbow.fund/ In this episode, (in order) we talked about: *How he reframed his loss and developed a new relationship with his daughter*How his relationship with his wife has been shaped by this tragic event *The power of EMDR therapy in helping him process the events of the day*The significance of rainbows in their organization, Sidney’s Rainbows*Advice for someone with a friend who is grieving the loss of a child*How the event galvanized their parenting style with Ellis *How and why they developed the organization Sidney’s Rainbows*Statistics highlighting pedestrian deaths caused by trafficQuotes“I long for a different kind of relationship with my daughter.”“There are moments in life that change your perspective with everything. That was it for me.”“My mind works forward not back. It was less yearning for what we had and more what we hadn’t had yet. You realize you’ve lost the moments that you never get to have. We were a week away from kindergarten orientation."" There’s the saying, ‘You can never swim in the same river twice’ cause it’s always flowing….I’ve thought a lot about that since. How do we maintain that flow forward and connectivity with Sid in a different way.""Your mind naturally wants to fix things. You can be taken down with that.  Or if you choose to look it as a lesson—that we control nothing—then you can see it as an opportunity to let go of some of those things. What I can control is my internal world."“It feels like I’m building a relationship with her where she still surprises me, which she did a lot. One of the things I loved about her was  that she was always wanting to surprise other people and delight them. The morning I left, she left a note and a flower on my desk." “She’s not gone, she’s just here in a very different way.”“Her spirit is part of us. When we make a decision, we are very much consulting with Sid…I talk to her all the time.”“You don’t have to do anything. You just have to show up. That’s hard for me. I’m such a fixer. A lot of what I do for my job is problem solve all day. In situations like this, I realized, in the past, I was looking for ways to fix it. If I couldn’t fix it, (I thought) I shouldn’t be involved."“There are 42,000 traffic deaths a year. I think we just think of that as the cost of our transportation system. But if you look at other places around the world, that is not the case."“Hoping that our story can help drive change to reduce traffic deaths and inspire people to know you can get through more than you think.”“Notice it. Name it. Feel it. Let it flow.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 21 Psychologist and mind-wandering researcher Dr. Giulia Poerio shares recent research describing characteristics of limerence, who might be predisposed to it, and potential techniques that help alleviate limerent thinking. Due to the lack of understanding of limerence in clinical communities, she describes how it is often misunderstood or misdiagnosed. Dr Giulia Poerio is a Lecturer in Psychology at the University of Sussex in the UK. She has broad research interests and has published widely on mind-wandering, emotion, sleep, imagination, and ASMR. She completed her PhD at the University of Sheffield where she explored daydreaming about other people and its emotional impacts. She then held 2 post-doctoral positions over 4 years. Her first was at the University of York on a grant researching the neural basis of mind-wandering and spontaneous thought. Her second was at the University of Sheffield on a grant researching the impact of the arts, imagination, and narrative immersion on wellbeing. Connect with Giulia here: https://profiles.sussex.ac.uk/p514955-giulia-poerioIn this episode, (in order) we talked about: *Characteristics of limerence: hyperfocus, propensity to mind wandering, attention to detail, difficulty regulating thoughts, extreme sensitivity to rejection*Potential predispositions to limerence: adverse childhood events, attachment styles, daydreaming, anxiety, depression, ADD and autism*The importance of getting good sleep to regulate intrusive thoughts*How limerence is similar to the initial stages of falling in love*The potential benefits of CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and ACT (acceptance commitment therapy) *Is “no contact” the way to go*The importance of finding a personalized approach to healing*Misdiagnoses due to a the lack of understanding of limerence in clinical communities*Whether unrequited love has to be a necessary condition for limerence*How the LO often has qualities that you feel you lack, so people often feel like their LO’s are narcissistic*How the uncertainty of hookup culture fuels limerence *Potential new areas of research Quotes“In terms of romantic longing, it’s both ecstasy and agony…an anticipated loss.” “If you looked at a person’s semantic network (connections of meaning) between the limerent object and other things in their life, there’d be some hyperconnectivity b/t that person (LO) and absolutely everything else. You can relate to this when they’ve had a breakup, and everything reminds them of that person.”“There are many ADD traits that could be linked to limerence: hyperfocus (ability to become absorbed in certain things at the expense of others), propensity to mind wander, difficulty regulating thoughts. These characteristics maybe don’t cause limerence but might make it more difficult.” “Of 235 survey respondents who said they’d previously experienced limerence or were currently in a limerent episode: 66.4% reported another mental health or neurodevelopmental disorder, the average number of limerent episodes were 7, average age was 33.90, average shortest episode was 15 months, average longest episode over 5 years, average age of onset is 17.”“The fantasy fuels it, so if you poke holes in the fantasy (like disclosing interest to the LO), it takes away what keeps limerence going.”“What I found really interesting from reading people’s descriptions of the kinds of fantasies they would have about their limerent objects was that, yes, there are elements of sexual reciprocation, but a lot of it is about wanting to be seen and to be loved and accepted.”“If you are someone who gets absorbed in experiences and that’s fueling your limerence, find another outlet, one that’s less destructi

Send us Fan MailEpisode 20 Professor and author Lisa Phillips discusses society's different expectations for genders in the pursuer/pursued template. In reflecting on her own story of unrequited love, she explains how she recognized what, not who, she really wanted. Phillips shares tips for satisfying the part of some of us that is always longing.Lisa Amy Phillips is the author of Unrequited: The Thinking Woman’s Guide to Romantic Obsession. She’s written about relationships and mental health for The New York Times, The Washington Post, Psychology Today, and other publications. Her NYT Modern Love essay is titled, "I couldn't let go of him. Did it make me a stalker?" She teaches journalism and a class of her own creation called “Love and Heartbreak” at the State University of New York at New Paltz. She’s working on a new book titled,  First Love: The new realities of teen relationships and heartbreak, which will be out in early 2025. Learn more about Lisa on Instagram @lisaamyphillips18 In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*Boundaries: At what point is behavior stalkerish*Varying versions of limerence*Protest Response (coined by Helen Fisher) *Parallels between brain scans of people dealing with rejection and youth scrolling social media*Why it’s so hard for young people to block people*How social media capitalizes on obsession and grief*Gender differences in unrequited love exhibited in history and literature *Filling our longing side (appeasing our hungry ghosts)*Parenting the emotional awakening in young people*How her relationship with her daughter inspired her new book on teen relationships*Her ex-boyfriend’s response to her book and essay that involved him*Research on rebound relationships *How reflection on unrequited love helped her recognize what, not who, she really wanted  Quotes“Longing is a goal and a quest for change.”“You always want to keep in mind that there’s another human on the other end.”“The only thing that differentiates unrequited love limerence from mutual love limerence is the ending of the story.”“We are struggling with the blurred lines right now when it comes to appropriate and inappropriate behavior online.”“We have this culture where it’s a big deal for a woman to ask a man out. What does that say about the pursuer/persued template?”“If you’re a longer, there’s always something inside you that’s a longer. But what you do with it, can truly transform….You can add to your repertoire of what you’re attracted to.” “If I’m not working in a way that fills my creative side, my questing side, my desire to discover and explore and write, then I becomes a little more vulnerable in a lot of ways.”Re: advice for parents working with the teens: “Keep having the courage to express interest and communicate.”“I had to fall apart to realize this very basic thing…You should want someone who is good to you.” 

Send us Fan MailEpisode 19 Psychology professor and author Dr. Mary-Frances O’Connor explains how our expectations encoded in the brain impact our grief when we lose someone we love (through death, divorce, or estrangement). She also illustrates why our brains have to learn over and over that someone is truly gone and why some people experience more intense, persistent and prolonged grief.Dr. Mary-Frances O’Connor is an Associate Professor at the University of Arizona Department of Psychology, where she directs the Grief, Loss, and Social Stress Lab. Her research focuses on the wide-ranging emotional responses to bereavement. Dr. O’Connor also studies difficulties adapting following the death of a loved one, termed prolonged grief. She believes that a clinical science approach toward the experience and physiology of grief can improve psychological treatment. Dr. O’Connor’s recent book, The Grieving Brain: The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss has garnered praise from peers and literary critics alike.  Connect with Mary-Frances through her website In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*The impact of time and experiences on the intensity of longing*The grief metaphor of the missing table in a familiar room*Why our brains continue to account for our predictions not being true anymore*Why people avoid spaces after the loss of a loved one or a break-up*The “Gone But Everlasting” theory: why it’s so difficult to learn that our loved ones are gone*How our brains are encoded when we have a bonded relationship with someone*How “Continuing Bonds” work after we’ve lost a loved one (dead or alive)*Prolonged grief: why some people continue to revisit memories of lost loved ones* The difference between wanting and liking and why someone might be more drawn to one feeling over the other*The use of “Yearning in Situations of Loss” scale for those who experience bereavement, a break-up or homesickness*The need for grief education among psychologists, psychiatrists and the general public Quotes“The real world and our internal map of the real world sometimes don’t match up….There are tons of times when you walk into a room and your loved one should be there. The internal map of your world says, ‘My loved one will be there.’ But when they’re not and that expectation is so strong, we often have a very visceral reaction. “I’m not suggesting learning means forgetting….Having new experiences does not mean you are going to forget that close and important relationship you had in those places.”“That encoding, that everlasting belief, is critical when our loved one is alive. That’s what keeps us returning to them. That’s what keeps us seeking them out…When our loved one dies, our brain still believes for a long time that they’re out there somewhere. It’s still reaching for them because it has a solution. And that solution is, ‘Go get them!’ But after a death or a divorce or estrangement, that’s not a solution anymore.”“It is normal many years later to continue to talk about the person and have waves of grief. What is challenging is when those waves of grief (make you feel) like your current life has no purpose without this person. Or you don’t know who you are without this person. Or you feel estranged from the people around you because you feel bitter they haven’t had a loss and you have.”   “Our attachment relationships are as important to our survival as food and water…If someone hasn’t had water for a long time, they’re going to be incredibly thirsty and thinking about water all the time, but you’d never describe them as addicted to water."

Send us Fan MailEpisode 18 Psychologist and author Dr. Alexandra Solomon explains how our current low accountability dating culture fosters a collective attachment disorder which individuals sometimes mistake as a personal disorder. She provides practical actions individuals can take to foster a healthy relationship with others and themselves. Solomon also discusses how longing (or limerence) can be a defense mechanism in a culture with a low tolerance for frustration and high expectations for perfection.  Dr. Solomon is a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University, and she is on faculty in the School of Education and Social Policy at Northwestern University where she teaches the internationally renowned course, Building Loving and Lasting Relationships: Marriage 101. Relational Self-Awareness is the through line in all of her work, particularly her hit podcast, Reimagining Love. In addition to writing articles and chapters for leading academic journals and books in the field of marriage and family, she is the award-winning author of three books, Loving Bravely, Taking Sexy Back, and her latest Love Every Day. Connect with Alexandra through her website In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*How our current high ambiguity & low accountability dating culture is a collective attachment disorder *Self-abandonment that occurs during hookup*Gut checks: questions you could ask yourself before hooking up*The tendency to cut and run at the first sign of trouble: A theme she often sees in clients talking  about relationships*Limerence as a defense mechanism *How social media impacts our expectations in relationships*How our partner is a reflection of us and vice versa*Relational self-awareness*Three things that were present in your family growing up that you want to carry on & three things you don’t want to carry on*How to calm the fear of settling Quotes“I worry about people personalizing that which is systemic. Is it fair to say I’m anxiously attached when what I’m wanting is clarity and consistency in a connection with someone. Is that a disorder on my part, or is that a normative striving?"“Low accountability dating culture is a collective attachment disorder. It’s a lot of people acting as if they could take you or leave you. There’s quite a bit of emotional gymnastics that one has to do to act like I don’t care when I really do, or I don’t need clarity when I really do. Because all of us need some measure of clarity of who am I to you? What are the boundaries and expectations?"Re: hookups: “Acting as if it was meaningless or acting as if I can do this and not think twice about it is a kind of self-abandonment that I worry about.”“If you pull someone near enough to you, they will disappoint you. But if you keep them at arm’s length, then they can stay perfect, and you can stay safe.”“Someone isn’t a better lover because they have six-pack abs. Someone is a better lover because they are present and attentive.”“The heart of a healthy relationship is an ongoing curious and compassionate relationship we have with ourselves so that we are noticing our own reactions.”“I think often times somebody who is longing for a perfect relationship or perfect love, it is a defense against a fear of getting hurt….And by moving away from the longing and actually being willing to engage in a messy human-to-human relationship, I am telling myself that I’m pretty brave and strong and able to handle things that come my way.”“Some of us fall in love and some of us step really freaking carefully into love…there are a lot of us who will never be swept off our feet…There

Send us Fan MailEpisode 17 Sociology professor Dr. Lisa Wade takes a deep dive into the history and results of hookup culture on American college campuses based on her research. She reveals the unspoken rules of hookup culture and how the stalled sexual revolution contributed to hookup culture (and in turn young adults having less sex than their parents). Dr. Lisa Wade is an Associate Professor of Sociology at Tulane University. Dr. Wade's publication record includes work on college hookup culture, the sociology of the body, and U.S. discourse about female genital cutting. In 2017, she published American Hookup: The New Culture of Sex on Campus based on her research derived from 101 college students’ journals where they wrote about sex and romance on campus.  In the book, Wade maps out a punishing emotional landscape marked by unequal pleasures, competition for status, and sexual violence. She discovers that privileged students tend to enjoy hookup culture the most, and considers its effects on racial and sexual minorities, students who “opt out,” and those who participate ambivalently. Connect with Lisa through her website In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*The pain, danger, freedom, and selfishness involved in hookup culture*The rules of hookup culture*How by the sexual revolution never succeeding in convincing society to value feminine traits it contributed to the creation of the hookup culture*Why hookup culture is distinctly American *How the erotic marketplace and differences in religiosity and economics play a role in who can participate freely in and who is invited and valued into hookup culture *Why being called desperate is worse than being called a prude or a slut*Virginity on campus*What college students are longing for: genuine options Quotes“Most of them (college students hooking up) have this desire for connection, for meaningfulness, for sex that feels  emotionally intimate—those feelings are thwarted by hookup culture and the lack of accountability and ambiguousness is sustained by everyone pretending not to care about each other or actively not caring about each other.”"In America fun and being carefree is really tightly connected in our imaginations. But, in order to have sex where nothing you do can come back upon you and require you to take care of others, you have to have it be careless as well as carefree. This is a tricky thing to accomplish given that we know sex is often extremely emotional.""You can flirt and be friendly before a hookup, but during a hookup sex should be hot but not warm. Extended eye contact, caressing, and slow kissing (traits considered feminine) is off script in hookup culture. Sex is supposed to be great but not sweet. “By far the most heartsick people in my research were a couple guys, a straight guy and a gay guy, who really desired to have emotional experiences and struggled to find them.”“Students hookup less and have more criticism of hookup culture as they go through their college experience.” "When the daughters of the women who were young adults in the 60s and 70s got to college in the mid-1990s, they applied the logic that women’s liberation is the right to do anything men do. You apply that to sexuality and you get hookup culture." “There really isn’t a pathway for a relationship that doesn’t go through this hookup period."  “Hookup culture isn’t about hooking up with someone you like. It’s about hooking up with someone your friends are going to be impressed by. It’s about status.”“If you have to jump into the deep end to have sex at all, then it makes sense that people are having less sex than before because it’s scarier.”

Send us Fan MailEpisode 16 Purity culture recovery coach Linda Kay Klein explains how difficult it is to shed the teachings of purity culture. Using her personal experience and those of the many women she interviewed for her book, Linda discusses how purity culture encouraged longing for a perfect mate, how repression of emotions manifests in our bodies, and how to develop an endoskeleton of sexual ethics.Linda Kay Klein is author of Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free. Today, she is a purity culture recovery coach, and the founder and president Break Free Together, a not-for-profit organization serving individuals recovering from gender- and sexuality-based religious trauma. Linda has spoken around the world from various TEDx stages to The Apollo’s Women of the World Festival. Her work has been featured by over 150 outlets, including the New York Times, NPR, CBS, NBC, and Elle Magazine. Linda is a trained Our Whole Lives (OWL) sexuality education facilitator, and holds an interdisciplinary Masters degree in gender, sexuality and religion from New York University. Linda has one daughter in diapers and another in college. She is married to a writer and social change agent who inspires her every day.  Connect with Linda through her websiteIn this episode, (in order) we talked about…*Ways in which purity culture encouraged longing for an ideal partner*How “Letters to My Future Husband” set women up for disappointment*What is virginity and what is sex (what we count and what we don’t)*How even after leaving the evangelical church, she couldn't escape purity culture*How purity culture encouraged perfect performance for reward*To be wanted but not savored*Why and how she wrote her book Pure*How she developed a formula to help others heal from purity culture*How repression of her emotions manifested in her body *An exoskeleton versus an endoskeleton model of sexual ethics*Forms of purity culture (not just Christian)Quotes“I had very specific expectations for what sex meant based on having grown up in purity culture…Not only was it penis and vagina, it was sex that was spiritual, deeply loving, and wildly pleasurable…with that man I’d been longing for—that perfect man, that forever man, that destined man.” "The whole time I was in purity culture, I was called a stumbling clock, a thing over which men and boys could trip. I felt like there were eyes on me all around assessing me, and I came up short."“I would try to have sexual exploration with my long-term boyfriend, and I would break into tears. My eczema would come out from the stress, and I would be scratching until I bled. As we started to get anywhere close to having sex, I started taking pregnancy tests out of fear…”"I no longer walk around with shame, fear, and anxiety…but it still lies there dormant waiting for it to be triggered." "As I’ve worked more on recovery work, I see it all the time: lots of back issues, lots of stomach issues, and other physical issues associated with repression of our emotions, choices and selves...those internal muscles tightening, saying, “Don’t let yourself come out!” "In order to have an endoskeleton sexual ethic, we need to have actual thought processes around our sexual decisions….and safe supportive places to talk about it with people who aren’t so ashamed they can’t look it square in the face." Resources mentioned:When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate and

Send us Fan MailEpisode 15 Author Laura Carney reflects on how years of longing to belong restricted her, but learning to say, “yes,” to completing her late father’s bucket list, set her free from a false narrative. In this intimate interview, Carney discusses luck, spirituality, grief, true love, and trust. When author Laura Carney discovered her father’s bucket list 13 years after he’d been killed by a distracted teen driver, she decided she’d complete the list to honor him. What she didn’t understand was in doing so she’d learn to honor herself. The story became her recently published book, My Father’s List: How Living My Dad’s Dreams Set Me Free. Laura is a journalist and copy editor in New York. She's been published by the Washington Post, the Associated Press, The Hill, Runner's World, People magazine, Guideposts, Good Housekeeping, The Fix, Upworthy, and Maria Shriver’s Sunday Paper. Her work as a copy editor has been primarily in magazines, for 20 years. Connect with Laura through her website bylauracarney.comIn this episode, (in order) we talked about…*How she became an advocate for spreading the word on distracted driving*How and why she “faked normal” while grieving her father’s death*What the movie Back to the Future has to do with redefining the truth about our family and ourselves*The timeline from when her father died to when she learned of the list to when she completed it*Why her father’s absence at her wedding triggered grief all over again*Why both positions (up or down) of horseshoes are different perspectives of luck*Ways in which she felt she was being primed to complete the list years prior to learning it existed*Why becoming a runner was one of the best things she ever did*How committing to saying “yes” freed her*The items on the list of 60 that were the most difficult to accomplish*How her father’s list changed her sense of spirituality *How she kept meeting strangers who distinctly reminded her of her dad *How she relied on signs (often from strangers) *Her writing ritual and how the writing process went the way she needed it to go not the way she expected *Advice she has for people who want to accomplish a loved one’s last wishes  Quotes“I developed a difficult relationship with uncertainty, so I narrowed in on perfectionism.”“The desire to be seen as normal, that was really all I wanted—all the time. I thought if you weren’t seen as normal, you weren’t safe. It was a longing to belong.”“When I said yes to the list, my soul was saying yes, yes, yes. I saw my dad’s face in the back of my mind nodding and smiling.  I hadn’t had that kind of connection before.”“I was avoiding the story I needed to tell because it was too difficult to tell. Saying yes to the list was the first step... As I learned to say yes, over and over again, I was letting go of the need to be accepted by other people—that longing...”“If we have any part of our parents that we feel we can’t trust, it becomes more difficult for us to learn how to trust ourselves, especially when we’re in their shoes.”“The person (my husband) fell in love with was the girl inside of me who is the real me, not the woman who had so many layers of insecurity, who had become conditioned by the patriarchy to become desirable, like I had no worth as a woman unless I was wanted.”"There’s a difference between longing for something you don’t have because you want to fill an emptiness-- wanting that because it will make you feel better about yourself—that’s an ego pursuit. But feeling called to do something is different because that’s your heart calli

Send us Fan MailEpisode 14: Known in New York City circles as "The Wedding Doctor," Dr. Jocelyn Charnas describes how she helps clients navigate wedding planning and maintain the focus on their relationship/marriage while wading through decision fatigue, feelings of loss, and the unrealistic expectations set forth by social media.Dr. Jocelyn Charnas is a clinical psychologist in private practice in New York City. She treats adults with depression, anxiety, interpersonal difficulties, relationship and adjustment problems, phase-of-life issues, and maladaptive behaviors. She works both with individuals and with couples at a variety of relationship phases including dating, engagement, marriage, divorce contemplation, post-marriage, and co-parenting. Dr. Charnas’ work has been published in several journals including Training and Education in Professional Psychology, GROUP, International Journal of Testing, and Psychotherapy Theory, Research, Practice, Training. She has been interviewed for The New York Times, Women's Health, Elle, Glamour, The Huffington Post, CBS.com, TheKnot.com, and Weddings Illustrated. Connect with Dr. Charnas through her LinkedIn profileIn this episode, (in order) we talked about…*How and why she started her business catering to brides and engaged couples*The pitfalls of idealization that come with Pinterest and Instagram when wedding planning*Normalizing the idea of disappointment and the inevitable letdown after the wedding*How to keep the focus on the relationship and marriage during wedding planning *How to deal with decision fatigue and all the cooks in the kitchen during wedding planning*How she teaches her clients to be critical thinkers and not get sucked in by marketing*The mix of emotions at a wedding, an event that naturally involves lossQuotes: “The attainable part (of longing) is what’s interesting to me because it makes longing an endless loop.” “This idea of perfection is baked into even the most fundamental primary concept of a wedding that it’s supposed to be the best day of your life. Even just that notion puts unrealistic expectations on it”“It (social media) makes us feel that if we don’t achieve that beauty or perfection, not only are we failing, but we aren’t as good as everyone else who seems to be achieving it.”“We have to throw out the idea that it’s possible to avoid disappointment…Feeling it is ok. It’s normal to feel deflation after any important milestone in our lives that we’re dedicating a tremendous amount of energy and emotion and time to.”“This concept of the wedding as the goal or the end—think about how many fairy tales, Disney movies and rom-coms end with the wedding…when that’s such a distortion. The wedding is the beginning of a marriage and life together. I spend a lot of time with my patients trying to reframe it that way.”“It’s impossible to please everyone, but when we zoom in and think about the things that please ourselves and please our partners and satisfy our needs it’s a smaller scope. It’s such good practice for marriage.”"I spend a lot of time with couples to uncover and tune into what about the wedding is a representation of you two. That seems to help with decision fatigue."“They (the industries that fuel the wedding industry) have a vested interest in keeping us longing.”"The pandemic shrunk people’s world...It gave an interesting window into what happens when we have less access to the outside world, and we are more tuned into what we feel inside and what’s important to us.” “Any life transition, any phase of life change, any milestone always has an associated element of loss…because we are le

Send us Fan MailEpisode 13: Award-winning neuroscientist Zoe Donaldson explains her research on how romantic bonds in prairie voles are encoded in the brain. She specifically looks at what happens the moment a prairie vole decides to reunite with its partner over another.Dr. Zoe Donaldson is an Associate Professor of Neuroscience at the University of Colorado Boulder where she is the recipient of the NIH New Innovator and the NSF CAREER awards, among others. She joined the faculty after completing a Ph.D. in Neuroscience from Emory University and pursuing post-doctoral training at Columbia University. She studies how close social bonds, such as those that mediate friendships and romantic love, are encoded in the brain. In order to understand the cells and molecules that make bonding possible, her lab uses monogamous prairie voles. Unlike rats and mice, these rodents forms lifelong pair bonds between mates akin to human romantic partnerships. By examining the neurobiology underlying these bonds and what happens when they are lost, she hopes to identify novel treatments for psychiatric and neurodevelopmental disorders. This interview takes place in her office (apologies in advance for less than ideal sound quality) following a tour of her lab. Learn more about Dr. Donaldson through her lab or hereIn this episode, (in order) we talked about…*Desire versus motivation *The role of the nucleus accumbens (part of the brain involved in choices) in longing*Why prairie voles are used for their ability to create lifelong bonds with their mating partners*Why her lab compares friendships to romantic partner bonds in voles*What’s happening in the brain when a prairie vole decides to run to reunite with its partner over a different vole*One scientist studying the genetics of cheating prairie voles vs faithful ones*How her 1st opportunity to design her own experiment contributed to her interest in studying motivation in the brain*What happens in the voles’ brain when they aren’t given access to their partner*The debate on pathologizing grief*What if we could train our brain to adapt better to grief just as we can to overcome phobias Quotes:“Longing is the motivation to have something what you want you can’t have immediately.”“The stronger the bond, the more cells that are active as they are making that decision to approach their partner.” “Instead of asking, 'Is it stressful to lose your partner?' because the answer is yes, let’s focus on what makes grief different that any other stressful or traumatic experience."“The National Institute of Health defines loss as a state of deprivation from a motivationally significant person or thing.”“We can grieve things we never had.”“Yearning is the core feature of grief….And we know that biologically, there is something specifically different about yearning because the behavioral therapies and pharmacotherapies that are efficacious in treating major depression don’t do anything to touch yearning related symptoms and grief. "“Yearning is a state of frustration that emerges from having a desire that is unfulfilled.”“They start to get dopamine released when they press the lever, in anticipation of the reward they are about to get. They get more dopamine released when they reunite with their partner than they do with the novel vole. So, there’s some part of the brain that says, your partner is really rewarding, you get extra dopamine when you try to reunite with them.”“I don’t think love addiction is a medically relevant term, but there are instances when attachments can become unhealthy.” 

Send us Fan MailEpisode 12: Center for Prolonged Grief founder, Dr. Katherine Shear untangles the differences between prolonged grief disorder and more typical integrated grief. She explains why longing is at the heart of grief and the importance in accepting a changed relationship with the lost loved one. Dr. M. Katherine Shear is the Marion E. Kenworthy Professor of Psychiatry and the founding Director of the Center for Prolonged Grief at Columbia University School of Social Work. Dr. Shear is a clinical researcher who first worked in anxiety and depression. For the past 25 years, she has focused on understanding and treating people who experience persistent, intense grief, which is now an official diagnosis called Prolonged Grief Disorder in the ICD-11 and DSM-5. She developed and tested Prolonged Grief Disorder Therapy, a short-term, strength-based intervention that helps foster adaptation to loss and confirmed its efficacy in three large National Institute of Mental Health-funded studies. She’s developed several widely used assessment instruments and a Prolonged Grief Disorder Treatment instruction manual.Learn more about Dr. Shear at https://socialwork.columbia.edu/faculty-research/faculty/full-time/m-katherine-shear/In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*The difference between desire and longing*The difference between usual continuing grief (or integrated grief) and prolonged grief disorder*The six healing milestones in adapting to loss through therapy she developed*Why the terms for the disorder she has researched changed over time from unresolved grief to traumatic grief to complicated grief to prolonged grief*How you learn to long for a lost loved one without it becoming debilitating*What she learned about how grief impacts the body from studying maternal-infant separation *The long-term impact her first experience with grief  had on her*Why the therapy she developed encourages people to speak to dead loved ones*How prolonged grief disorder can show up with any meaningful loss (death, divorce, natural disaster)*The relationship between our brain’s nucleus accumbens and the emotion of longing Quotes:“Longing is the heart of grief. It’s the presence of absence and the absence of presence.”“Prolonged grief is when acute grief dominates our mind and our life. “When we lose someone close there are measurable changes in our cardiovascular and neuro-endocrine systems.”“Our close relationships are literally mapped in our brains in the form of all different kinds of memories (explicit and implicit).” “Grief is like a snowflake: no two experiences are exactly the same.” “I had been very afraid of death most of my life. But after my cousin died, shortly after I started doing this work, I thought, I don’t have to be afraid of dying…because she is there. So, wherever she is, it’s ok, because I’ll be with her...This changed relationship was interesting in that it didn’t require her to be physically present therefore it didn’t require me to be physically present, so it was easy to imagine it continuing into eternity.”“When it (longing) takes up too much space in your mind and it interferes with your ability to restore your capacity to thrive or accept the reality you’re in, it’s like someone’s got you by the heels—you can’t move forward, you can’t connect with other people, you can’t connect with even yourself ...because you are preoccupied with something that’s gone.”“Longing is a paradoxical emotion that contains presence and absence, and it also contains pleasure and pain.” Resources: Prolonged grief assessments and tools on the Center for Prolonged Grief website

Send us Fan MailEpisode 11: Award-winning science journalist & author Florence Williams shares insights she learned during her journey through the heartbreak of her divorce and writing a memoir about it. She discusses the physical impacts heartbreak has on our bodies and how our openness to beauty aids in our recovery.  When her 25-year marriage ended, Florence Williams said she felt “axed in the heart” and like her body had been “plugged into an electrical socket.” Her latest award-winning book, Heartbreak: A Personal and Scientific Journey, chronicles the exploration of her own heartbreak and that of others. Florence’s writing has appeared in the New York Times, National Geographic, Outside, and numerous other outlets. She’s also the author of The Nature Fix: How Nature Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative.  Florence is a certified forest-therapy guide and leads retreats focused on building a nurturing and reciprocal relationship with nature. Connect with Florence on Instagram @florence99 or learn more about her on her website http://www.florencewilliams.com/In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*Different kinds of heartbreak: personal, geographical and collective*How our cells listen for loneliness and other ways our bodies respond to heartbreak *Why people who go through divorce have an increased risk for several diseases*The difference between how her body reacted to her mom’s death & her divorce*How long it takes to recover from heartbreak *Why it’s important to spend enough time healing after trauma like heartbreak*The Museum of Broken Relationships & ritualizing our breakups *How our openness to beauty makes us more resilient and how to micro-dose on awe*The process of writing her book as she was grappling with her heartbreak   Quotes: “If you feel lonely and unsupported, your nervous system is going to respond to that by pumping out more inflammation….Our bodies know we are more at risk for threat when we feel lonely.” “There was no one thing that made me feel instantly better. Research shows on average it takes four years for people who are divorced to return to baseline health…And for some people it’s going to take longer…There’s no one way to grieve.” “One of the myths I bust in the book is that you shouldn’t start another relationship too soon or that you need to heal before you go back out there in the dating world. I don’t think that’s true. You never really get to a point where you are fully healed, so you might as well do that healing with someone else if you can find someone else who is going to be supportive.”“The beauty in life is in the growth that happens after trauma. When we can open our hearts back up, then we can realize our full humanity." “We know from brain imaging studies that people who are more prone to awe also have more connections in different parts of their brains. There’s some ability they have to take their own personal pain and put it in perspective. That really does help them get through the suffering.” “People who are parts of our lives, they’re always going to be parts of our lives. You don’t just hit a switch and they’re gone.”Order Florence’s book, Heartbreak: A Personal & Scientific Journey hereLearn more about the Museum of Broken Relationships hereLet's connect: www.amandajmccracken.com   

Send us Fan MailEpisode 10: Cassie Fulmer Brown discusses longing in relationship to her five-year battle with breast cancer and why it’s important to “Go small and go now!”Five years ago, Cassie Fulmer Brown got her first mammogram at age 40 despite having no signs or symptoms of cancer. She was diagnosed with ERPR-positive and HER2-negative breast cancer. Following the diagnosis, Cassie and her husband David drastically changed their lifestyles (quitting their jobs and selling their house) to fight the cancer. Cassie left her high-stress market researcher position in the consumer-packaged goods industry. Now, she and her husband travel around the country and share their adventures on their YouTube channel Cissy and Bud. When Cassie isn’t dealing with cancer treatments or traveling, she’s boating, reading, doing yoga, or busy being a stepmom. She is a promoter of and speaker for Pink Ribbon Girls. Connect with Cassie on Instagram @cissyandbud In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*Cassie’s journey with cancer from the first diagnosis  to the second diagnosis and the actions she’s taken (surgeries, drugs, chemo, radiation) *How both she and her husband changed their lifestyles to decrease stress once diagnosed*How cancer has strengthened her relationship with her husband and family *Her approach to sharing her story on social media *Advice she has for someone going through a cancer diagnosis *The “Tara List” that grew into the “Cassie List” *What you can do to support a friend going through breast cancer  *How her genetic testing results prompted her to do the double mastectomy  *The photo shoot she did before the mastectomy*The importance of self-breast exams despite varying medical opinions *The good and the bad in going through cancer treatment the second time around *How she now makes small adventures out of everything Quotes:  “When I think about the life before cancer, I wish I could fall asleep without worrying if the cancer is going to spread or come back....The biggest thing (I long for) would be my body pre-cancer, before the surgeries and chemo and other drugs I take. But I try not to stay there too long because I know I can’t get that back.” “We both quit our jobs. He wanted to be able to go to every appointment with me. He likes to call it a sabbatical to fight cancer.” “I’ve also had two people get mammograms because of my diagnosis who were then diagnosed as well. So, they were happy they went and got an early diagnosis. I like when people reach out to me like that because it helps me to have something positive come from such a negative experience.”“If you know anyone going through cancer, or anything hard in life, say something. Say anything. The only caveat I would say would be try not to tell them a story of someone who died from cancer…. even if it’s a different kind of cancer. Just keep that one to yourself.” “Don’t say anything to a breast cancer patient on getting a boob job. It’s not what it is. It’s a major surgery…It’s not like you’re going to have this new set that’s going to look fabulous. It’s definitely emotional.” “Wear it now, do it now. I have this necklace that David gave to me on my wedding day I used to never wear. Now I barely even take it off. I don’t know what I was saving it for.” “I’m constantly scanning my body. So I’m more aware of my body because I have to be.”Resources mentioned in this episode: Cassie’s favorite post-surgery pajama top: Soma Cool Nights The book that made Cassie go vegan: How Not to Die by Michael Greger M.D. Great caps for when you're bald:  www.chemobeanies.com  Let's connect: www.amandajmccracken.com

Send us Fan MailEpisode 9: In this Valentine’s Day special, Dave speaks with Amanda about how their relationship developed from meeting to getting married, the pivotal moments during their 11-month-courtship, and the importance of seeing a couple’s therapist.  Dave  Butler is my husband, life partner, and the father of our child Moorea. He is also an environmental scientist, project manager, and geologist. Originally from Long Island, Dave was a drummer in a NYC-based band called Nuclear Cream Cheese. He is an ultra mountain trail runner, a New York Yankees fan, and a reformed Catholic.  In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*How longing transpires in our lives*How we met each other before we really met each other*The questionable rebound zone*Our first date and our first kiss (his firsts in 20 years)*His “freedom tour" plan following his divorce*Communicating versus playing games in relationships (work or personal)*How he first met my parents and grandma in Ohio without me*His first response to learning I was a 40-year-old virgin*Visiting our respective therapists together in the first two months of dating*Our four-day trip to Paris*The moments we revealed our love for each other in spoken and written word*Our response to having sex for the first time together*The marriage proposal*Why we see a therapist once a month*Dangers and benefits in comparing past relationships *Advice he’ll give our daughter on love and relationships  Let's connect: www.amandajmccracken.com

Send us Fan MailEpisode 8: Hillary Allen explains how longing, through the lens of perfectionism, can positively fuel athletes or destroy them.Hillary Allen is a professional ultra trail runner for Brooks and a gravel cyclist for Scuderia Pinarello. Hillary has raced all over the world excelling in a discipline known as Skyrunning. She earned the nickname "Hillygoat" for her ability to run fast on steep and technical terrain. Over the course of her career she has racked wins and course records from the 50km distance all the way to 100 mile trail races. However, in 2017 Hillary had a life-threatening accident where she fell 150 feet off of a ridge-line during a race in Tromsø, Norway, breaking 14 bones and being told she would never run again. After an intense recovery period, she not only returned to running but she’s back on the podium again! Hillary  has her masters in neuroscience and physiology. Connect with Hillary at www.hillaryallen.comIn this episode, (in order) we talked about…*The relationship between longing and endurance sports*Her life-threatening 150-foot fall at a race where she was ranked number one*How the accident changed her relationship with perfectionism*How talk therapy helps rewire our brains *Her struggle in college with an eating disorder*Techniques to personify characteristics like fear and perfectionism*The hardest part of her recovery: comparing herself to her former self*Falling in love with the process, not just focusing on the goal*“Death before DNF”*How longing has motivated her training and racing*The importance of perpetually being in the present moment Quotes: “As an ultra trail runner and gravel cyclist, I have this insatiable curiosity to determine the limits of my potential as it relates to travel on foot in these 100-mile races through the mountains or on two wheels through the gravel roads...” “With one step the ground gave way beneath my feet and the horizon was spinning upside down….I remember the world slowing down….I remember hitting the side of the mountain several times before I passed out along the way.”“I remember longing to know if I was ok. I knew I was moving my legs, so I wasn’t paralyzed. But I’d never seen that look of fear in faces I knew before. I was convinced I was dying. I remember asking in the helicopter if I was going to be ok…There was an unbearable since of urgency.”“I want to be excellent. I was faced with the reality that that might not happen ever again.”“(Perfectionism) can be my biggest asset and my worst enemy.”“I was holding myself up to a standard that wasn’t realistic, in particular for my body, and for anyone in general. I was able to realize it was unhealthy. It was exhausting to live inside my mind.”“We are in this world where we are defined by our last best result….Something that has helped me (as a goal oriented person) is to fall in love with the process. Each day is an opportunity to be my best.” “I’m asked the question, ‘Is it really worth killing yourself, literally or figuratively, to go after a goal?’…To me that’s an invitation to ask, ‘WHY do you want to do something? Is it for interval validation or external validation? How far are you willing to sacrifice parts of yourself to reach the goal?’”“Knowing that, regardless whether you finish or not, you’re still a worthwhile person, is very difficult….It's the ultimate wisdom and freedom to be able to walk away from something knowing you’re not a worse person for not finishing said task." Hillary's timeless mantra: "Believe in the best athletic days ahead of you." Let's connect: www.amandajmccracken.com

Send us Fan MailEpisode 7: Nika Kabiri speaks about the role longing plays in decision-making in both healthy and unhealthy ways, how to deal with anticipatory regret, and when to address inaction inertia.  Nika Kabiri has spent over 20 years studying how people make decisions in a variety of contexts, from relationships to business to politics. She is an author and speaker who’s written for The Hill, been featured in Fast Company and Yahoo!, and quoted in The Washington Post. Her website, yournextdecision.com, offers practical advice to people seeking to make better decisions for a better life. Nika has a PhD in Sociology, with a focus on choice theory, as well as a JD. Connect with Nika at: https://www.yournextdecision.com/In this episode, (in order) we talked about…*How emotions impact decision making*The role of the gut in decision making, and when to strictly rely on your gut*Decisions with a high or a low tolerance for error*Decision fatigue in relation to the pandemic and why we relied on conspiracy theories*Setting boundaries around decisions to protect your mental health*The connection between longing and the scarcity trap*How to overcome the fear of regret *How culture tricks us into believing we are in control of outcomes*How to respond to those who tell you you’re an overthinker*Why we should look for information, not advice, from our friends*How inaction inertia keeps us from changing our decision-making patterns*The difference between a decision-making scientist and a therapistQuotes: “Longing is an emotional reaction to experiencing a gap between where you crave to be and where you are. It’s the emotional experience you feel when that gap seems insurmountable.”“I like to think of longing as a data point. One bit of information you need to consider as you decide how to move through your life. If you experience a longing, you have to pay attention to it.” “When people say, ‘I have to live my best me,’ and ‘I have to follow my bliss,’---it drives me up a wall. It’s insensitive. The reality is people rely on you to survive in a way, and you can’t ignore that.”“When we are in a situation of uncertainty, that’s when we start to use heuristics (mental shortcuts) rather than relying on information.”“Longing can be a very comfortable place to be (when there are unknowns). We tend to fear regrets and risks. We get stuck in longing because we don’t know what decisions to make along the way."“For a long time I longed for a particular house. Now I have it. I longed for a particular type of career. Now I have it. It feels worse to not have that longing for it. I want to long for something else now. It’s made me realize that longing may be part of that human experience. To be satisfied, to me anyways, doesn’t feel as great as feeling hungry.” “The perfect outcome is probably unattainable. Your goal should be to maximize your chances. That’s about the process and not the outcomes. It’s about, ‘What can I do in the process of making a decision to make the (desired) outcome as likely as possible?’”“Blame is an answer to, 'Why did something happen?' We think we need answers because the more we feel we understand, the more we feel we have control over the future decisions we make…If you constantly think about YOUR next decision, then you don’t have to be mired in all the blame, shame and meaning making.”“If you find yourself making a certain decision over and over again, the likelihood of making that same decision is more likely in the future….The question is how much do you want to override that tendency for a better life.” Let’s connect:

Send us Fan MailEpisode 6: Veterinarian Bob Irmiger talks about mourning a sick pet before they're even gone, the agonizing decision to euthanize a pet, the process of euthanasia, and how you know when it’s time to let go.  Dr. Bob Irmiger intimately knows the longing pet owners experience before and after euthanizing a loved one. I know from personal experience. Last May, Dr. Bob came to our home to help us release our Shih Tzu's spirit from her ailing body. For over 40 years, Dr. Bob has been caring for pets throughout their life spans. After graduating with honors from Michigan State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine, he accepted an intern position in small animal medicine and surgery at the University of Illinois. Upon completion of his internship, Dr. Irmiger moved to Boulder, Colorado in 1982. He has practiced in the Denver/Boulder area for 40 years. He is currently semi-retired and operating a house-call service. Irmiger has been married for 44 years to his wife, Sally Irmiger. Together they have two children, three grandchildren, two border collies and two shelter dogs.  In this episode, we talked about…*Worrying you’ve decided to euthanize your pet too soon or too late*The insensitive things friends unintentionally say*How you know when it’s time to say goodbye*How some dogs will hide their pain to hang on longer*The process of euthanizing a pet and the body’s natural responses *How sometimes people just need to be given permission to let go*Dogs’ spirits leaving their bodies prior to medically passing*How longing can impact your decision to keep your pet alive longer than, perhaps, you should*Why you shouldn’t worry about making your vet comfortable during euthanasia*How losing a pet can be more traumatic than losing a parent or spouse*Advice for euthanizing a pet with kids around*Resources for dealing with the grief of losing a petQuotes: “I’ve had people six months or even a year later check in to see if they’d made the right decision…In most cases, they aren’t doing it too soon.” “Some dogs are worn out. Those are the ones that are difficult to know if it’s time.”“Losing the cat was more difficult than losing her husband. She had time to adjust to her husband dying of cancer… the cat’s death was sudden.”“Twenty percent of people call and say they aren’t ready after they’ve made an appt for euthanasia and then they apologize for bothering me. Don’t worry about me.”“I have had people who haven’t been able to pet their dog in weeks because the pet has been in so much pain. With the sedative they’re able to pet them. So, people get time to be with their pet.” “I am more likely to wait too long than any of my clients I take care of. The day before I had to treat her [his own dog] with medication, she was hiding from me because she was sick of me trying to keep her alive.”“Most vets get kinda stupid when it’s their own pet. It’s easy to give people advice when it’s not your pet.”“I’ve learned a lot from hospice nurses. In vet school we weren’t taught how to put a pet to sleep—in terms of how to help people with the loss.” Resources: https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/companion/our-services/honoring-bond-support-resources-pet-ownersLet’s connect: www.amandajmccracken.com 

Send us Fan MailEpisode 5: Writer Tawny Lara speaks about her own sobriety journey, how she became known as the Sober Sexpert, and the benefits to booze-free sex, dating and relationships.  With the help of yoga, meditation, therapy, and writing, Tawny Lara quit drinking in 2015 right before her 30th birthday.  But she says she found that she didn’t know how to date without alcohol. The now 36-year-old NYC-based millennial known as The Sober Sexpert is writing a book called Dry Humping: a Guide to Booze-Free Sex, Dating, and Relationships (Quirk, Summer 2023), a guide book, she says she needed when got sober. Her work is featured in Playboy, Men's Health, Huffington Post, and two essay collections: Sex and the Single Woman (Harper Perennial 2022) and The Addiction Diaries (LaunchPad 2020). She is the co-host of Recovery Rocks podcast and story developer for the Webby-award winning podcast, F*cking Sober.Connect with Tawny at: www.tawnylara.com In this episode, we talked about… The biphasic effect of alcoholThe social and physical benefits of booze-free sex, dating, and relationships Tawny’s journey to sobriety How being a bartender impacted who and how she datedThe false notion of liquid courageWhy you shouldn’t use alcohol to power through sex or mask your sexual identityHow alcohol encourages false longings and numbs true longingsDisassociation during sexWhy it’s important to know what you like and do not like sexually while soberWhy alcohol neurologically makes it hard to truly connect with someoneSober dating ideas (hint: add movement)Quotes: "Binge drinking, that’s just what you do when you are a bar tender.  I was the weird girl bringing shots to a table of people who just wanted to have a glass of wine. ""I didn’t have sober hook ups. And even if I was sober when sleeping with my partners, we were probably hung over or going out for drinks later that night.""When I’m talking about sober sex and dating, it’s not just removing alcohol from the equation but examining the role alcohol plays in your sex, dating, and love life." "Alcohol can numb your longing and also give you a false longing. You might want something drunk that you don’t want when you’re sober.""When I removed myself from the bar scene, I quickly learned who were my friends and who were my drinking buddies.""I am bisexual and I embraced my bisexuality in sobriety. I had several queer friends who have come out in sobriety. It’s common.""The most important part of sober dating is spending time dating yourself, figure out who you are without alcohol, what you like and don’t like.""I woke up one day and realized that my drinking was standing in the way of me working on my writing. TV and film make it seem like you have to lose everything before you quit drinking. I saw where my life was going and didn’t want to go there, so I got ahead of it."Resources: Sober Dating 101: A Guide to Romance and Sex to the Newly SoberLet's Connect: www.amandajmccracken.com

Send us Fan Mail Episode 4: Executive Coach Vivian James Rigney speaks about the loneliness and negative inner dialogue he encountered during his two-month climb of Mount Everest and what it taught him about vulnerability, authenticity, and legacy.Vivian James Rigney is President and CEO of Inside Us LLC, an executive coaching consultancy. He is known for building strong rapport with people and asking tough and incisive questions. A graduate of École Nationale Des Ponts et Chaussées in Paris, he is a renowned speaker on mindset and behavior, whose talks have inspired audiences globally.  The Irishman recounts this life-changing experience on Mount Everest in his new book, Naked at the Knife-Edge: What Everest Taught Me About Leadership and the Power of Vulnerability  Connect with Vivian: https://vivianjamesrigney.com/  In this episode, we talked about....The Seven Summits he climbed The importance of creating a team of people who share similar values The moment he thought he was going to die looking at the knife edgeHow the experience climbing Mount Everest impacted who and how he datedHow he reconnects with the self-compassion he experienced climbing Mt EverestThe inner dialogue in our minds that spits out soundbites of self-judgementThe butterflies he noticed during his climb at 25,000 feet Being raised in a culture where vulnerability is seen as a weaknessAdvice he has for people stuck longing and afraid to take risksQuotes:  "Longing is something which is anemic to the present. It brings our minds back to things we experienced in the past or things we want to experience in the future. It holds us prisoner to something that doesn’t exist.""The first goal of climbing Mount Everest is coming down alive." "This voice came to me deep within my core and it asked, “Why are you here?” And I did not know.... The moment I thought of my [deceased] brother, the noise went away. I felt peace. I thought, 'If I pass here, then I’m with him.'  My inner dialogue went from ten out of ten to two out of ten. " “If [danger] is some sort of addictive thing and we use that fear of death to search for something we aren’t finding, I ask, 'What’s getting in the way of you being alive today?'" "If longing lives rent free in our heads, then it’s burning energy and time. It’s not allowing us to be in the present which is not allowing us to be ourselves."  "I felt liberated in realizing I could be both vulnerable and strong at the same time.""At my memorial, I hope people won’t talk about all my bloody achievements. My wish is for people to remember how I made them feel. If I achieve that, maybe I’ll leave a little ding on the universe.."Links/Resourceshttps://mountaintrip.com/Let’s Connect: www.amandajmccracken.com

Send us Fan MailCecilia (name changed for privacy) is a writer, gardener, and competitive runner. She is currently exploring recovery from her eating disorder and how that relates to her desire for food and other desires she has long considered forbidden weaknesses. At the age of 14, she became blind as a result of a car accident. She says she had to learn to be tough and live without many things most people take for granted.  But the theme of denial started earlier in her life when her eating disorder began at the age of 8. Losing her sight reinforced her sense of living with loss. It wasn’t until she was 30 that she sought out treatment. In this episode, I speak with Cecilia before and after her three-month visit to an inpatient treatment center—her third one.  The post-treatment part of the interview starts at 28:00.In this episode, we talked about…Satisfaction vs LongingHow religion encourages longing and whether or not it’s healthyLonging to see colorThe difference between mourning a loss and longing for something you never hadWhether blindness is an obstacle to overcome or identityThe role fear and control play in eating disorders The difference between eating disorders and other addictive disordersLetting go of the proverbially log to grab the life raftHow resisting eating and smelling food helps her protect herself from some memories associated with food and how binging on food allows her to soothe other memoriesWhat the Minnesota Starvation Experiment says about longing (mind vs body)How we have to retrain our brain when negative patterns become ingrainedQuotes“Longing is desperately wanting something that is missing, not necessarily something you can’t have. I don’t long for a different reality because I can’t imagine it.” “My blindness is core to who I am. I am not expected to overcome being a woman or the fact I live in the United States. It bothers me that people think I should overcome my blindness.”“I long to see colors again, but I know it’s never going to happen again. I have a concept of them in my head, but I worry that my own concept is limited. I want to have the experience that goes beyond my imagination. My imagination is not limited by reality.”“Food is something I desperately crave, like security, comfort, & belonging. All of these are things food, taste, and smell can provide us. I do long for those things, but I can’t think about it because it’s too terrifying. If I were to want all those things, I feel like I wouldn’t be able to function. So I need to tell myself that I don’t deserve or need those things.”“I replace food with power and control I get when I can restrict myself from food.”  “You have to let go of the log you’re clinging to in order to grab on to the life raft.”“Ultimately nobody can force you to eat, and you can keep fighting against this thing you are longing for. At some point, you have to choose to say, ‘Here are all those things I’m terrified about and I’m still going to take this chance that I have to eat.’” “At some point, the brain of someone with an eating disorder just doesn’t work properly and there’s no reasoning your way through it. It’s having to go through the process of learning to eat again. It makes me cringe that I’m having to relearn to eat.”“With my eating disorder I’m in this battle between my mind and my body. My body wants and needs food. I either want to deny it or I want to punish it with food by giving it way too much. It’s rare that someone only restricts when they have an eating disorder. It’s usually a combination of both binging and restricting.”Links/Resources: To learn more about the Minnesota Starvation Experiment check out: 

Send us Fan MailEpisode 2: Melissa Lockman, LCSW: Marshall Fire survivor speaks about her family’s experience processing the loss of their home and neighborhood, how everyone grieves differently, and the importance in validating loss and taking time to pauseMelissa Lockman is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, and maternal and infant mental health expert. She says she has “an exquisite reverence for the ability of humans to heal from trauma.” In addition to her mental health training, Melissa has a master’s degree in Feminist Studies and a bachelor’s in ecology. She is a Libra, a mother to two children (10 & 6 years old), and a wife to her life partner of 26 years. Melissa says she finds balance and connection where it is tenuous or hidden. On December 30th 2021, her family’s home and Cornerstone neighborhood were decimated in the Marshall Fire. She talks about how her family and neighbors are processing the trauma. Connect with Melissa:  Website: www.melissalockman.comIn this episode, we talked about…The “God moment” in their escape—her daughter’s insightThe moment they knew their home was gone & how they told their childrenHow her family members respond & grieve the loss of their home differentlyHow longing tastes differently when there is or isn’t a choice in the changeHer love for popovers and the role of smell in memoryThe painful process of itemizing your entire life for insurance purposesPerspectives on “Marshall Strong” and the terms “survivor” vs. “victim”The outpouring of community helpHow she sees herself as a container to the bodies and souls of her childrenHow to balance a healthy sense of longing without the corrosive nature of obsessingGiving longing a place in time (validate loss and then pause)Quotes“When we drove away from their neighborhood, we could see flames 150 yards away.”“This tragedy would have been a whole other story if we had lost those guinea pigs.”“We all process grief so differently in our family. It was four different universes of experiences all on one couch.”“My daughter screamed and screamed and screamed. My son cried, ‘My Coca-Cola Haribo from my Christmas stocking…’ That was his moment of loss. Then he didn’t want to hear the word fire and wants to pretend we are on vacation.”“We miss the sweet smell of our home on a Saturday morning. One of the first things people sent us was a new popover tin.”“You let people be wherever they are. Grief is so different on the inside than what it looks like from the observer.” “In the past couple of weeks, we have said that we are each other’s home.”" Often, something happens too fast for the nervous system to make sense of something overwhelming. When someone says to me, ‘I really miss that stack of photo albums that I’d been saving forever that I hadn’t scanned,’ I say, ‘Yes, and can we just pause there?’ and let the pause happen so the longing has a place, has a spot in time, and doesn’t get skipped over. If we can just pause in life more, I think it leads to a little more integration.” Links/Resources:The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis WellerIt’s OK That You’re Not OK by Megan DevineFor traumatic healing check out www.traumahealing.comLet’s ConnectWebsite: www.amandajmccracken.com

Send us Fan MailRomance novelist Rachel McMillan discusses the intersection of sex-positive feminism and celibacy, the joys of traveling solo, why women want the slow-burn romance, and how longing fuels her creativity and cultivates gratitude.Rachel McMillan is a Toronto-based Valentine Day-born romance novelist, avid traveler, literary agent, and history buff. When she’s not writing romance or mystery, you can often find her traveling through Europe doing research for her next story. Her first nonfiction publication, Dream, Plan, Go: A Travel Guide for Independent Adventure was written to inspire adventure near and far. Like myself, Rachel is a self-proclaimed sex-positive feminist virgin who grew up going to church (her father is a minister). Rachel connected with me on social media in 2015 after reading an essay I’d written on celibacy. We’ve been following each other’s paths ever since. While you won’t find bodice-ripping Fabio characters in her stories, you will find heroes and heroines who value their lovers and treat them as equals.In this episode, we talked about…• How longing results in gratitude• Pursuing versus waiting • How romantic moments can exist solo • Investing in friendships versus romantic relationships• Her love for Vienna• How romance novels can set positive expectations for women• The importance of waiting for a “hero” who treasures you and treats you as an equal• The most successful hero/heroine characters among her readers• Writing sex scenes• Her choice to remain celibate until marriage • Learning to be your own best company/traveling solo • Sex-positive feminism • Medical professionals’ lack of tact when speaking about virginity with patients • Her love for TV Christmas movies​​Quotes“A woman should never wait for a companion—a friend or a guy—to do anything….I made up my mind there is nothing I would not do, whether it was try out a new restaurant or go to a show at a theater….I have had pretty romantic moments in cities where I have met people…..Every woman should have to travel solo once.”“Where’s the shower for the woman getting a Phd?”“(Romance novels) can set the expectation that you should invest in a relationship that makes you feel valued and cherished. I have had occasional emails from women who have said that after reading one of my books and meeting one of my heroes, they decided to leave a relationship because they wanted to be treated better. (Romance novels) can help you see you should be treated better.”“I always make sure that my heroine is set whether she has a man or not.”“My belief in celibacy being ideal in a romantic relationship is far more from my romantic nature than a bunch of guys behind a pulpit saying, ‘Wear a ring.’”“When I write heroes who wait a little bit, women love that. And most of the women I hear from have never stepped foot in a church.”“Women want the slow-burn romance. They love when a touch of a hand is just as sexy or sensual as a full-on scene.”“I just want readers to know they should hold out for a romance that makes them feel treasured, valued and an equal. And if they don’t find that, they’re going to be fine.”“I am a liberal Christian and a feminist. For me, waiting is revolutionary. And I will die on that hill.”

Send us Fan Mail Welcome to The Longing Lab podcast trailer!  I'll share how my personal story led me to start this podcast, the types of guests you'll have the opportunity to hear, and why I believe it will help many listeners.