The Lough In

Chris Logan is a primary school head teacher and rugby referee living in County Down. He talks frankly and insightfully about life as a school head, and reflects on the hot topic of how to move towards educating more of Northern Ireland's children together. For him, it's not all about "integrated" status - many schools are already walking the walk without it. And shared housing, he believes, is just as essential. He talks about growing up in and around rugby and cricket clubs - how they influenced his values, as well as providing his social life. Refereeing has kept him involved. Like so many NI people, sport is central to Chris's life and he takes particular pride in NI achievements, with the 2024 Olympics fresh in the memory. His broader pride in Northern Ireland as a unique and amazing place to live shines through. A political moderate, he is frustrated at the media focus on hardliners; for him, the relaxed, liberal approach of the UUP resonates more with what the Union is all about. We discuss Alliance too, and its turn towards identity politics which leaves him cold. He reveals too a surprising comedy celeb connection, arising from a past as a performance poet - and sometime bouncer - in Manchester.

In this episode, Professor Peter Shirlow, the Blair Chair and Director of the University of Liverpool's Institute of Irish Studies, talks about his life, his values and his work at the coal-face of "conflict transformation" in Northern Ireland. We start with his family background in Lambeg and the values he grew up with, moving onto his adopted city of Liverpool, before swinging back into the bit in the middle: his role talking to Loyalist and Republican prisoners in the 90s as part of the process towards the ending of the terror campaigns. On the way, we talk about what punk, post-punk and ska music meant to Peter as a teenager and how he sees himself culturally these days. He reflects on common misunderstandings about Northern Ireland and about the unionist community there in particular, challenging the lazy, wide-of-the-mark received wisdom. Peter's expertise as an academic, on top of his first hand experiences, bring a breadth and depth of insight into Northern Ireland society that few can match. And he likes a story.

Richard grew up in Londonderry in the 70s and 80s and went to Trinity College, Dublin to study Law. He reflects on his experiences there and some of the misperceptions he faced as a unionist from Northern Ireland at that time. He subsequently made a career as a lawyer in the City of London as well as working in Dublin and Belfast, before a health crisis brought a change of focus. He is now completing a PhD at Queen's University Belfast. He reflects on his experiences over the decades, the British and Irish contexts that shape Northern Ireland, and the kind of inclusive and liberal pro-Union politics he favours.

Emma is one of the most eloquent and thoughtful advocates for the needs of working class PUL (Protestant / Unionist / Loyalist) communities at the moment. She has been doing community work in loyalist areas in East Belfast for two decades now, and now runs the Phoenix Education Centre, which works to tackle educational under-achievement. She grew up in East Belfast in the 80s and 90s and left school at 16, just after the Belfast / Good Friday Agreement was signed. After juggling being a young single mum with community work, she went back to education in her 30s and graduated from Queens in history and politics. She is passionate about helping working class areas that can feel left behind, and about the need to give young working class people there better access to educational and work opportunities. Emma talks here about growing up in a Loyalist community in the 80s and 90s, during the Troubles; and then post-Troubles life as an adult, finding that while political attention turned elsewhere, the social problems of areas like hers continued on and even worsened in some ways. She emphasises to what extent problems in many working class PUL communities are rooted in class, and are shared with similar CNR communities. Social housing and more investment in community development schemes are badly needed; but cultural issues matter too. Emma argues that lazy stereotyping and disrespecting of PUL working class people is part of the problem. She wants to see all communities and traditions genuinely respected and valued.

Arnold is a thoughtful writer in places like Slugger O'Toole and the letters pages of N. Ireland newspapers, with acute observations from a moderate pro-Union perspective. He recently retired as a teacher, and writes and talks as an ordinary citizen rather than a politician or activist - it makes him all the more interesting to hear from. He comes from a North Antrim working class background and then lived in Belfast and Lisburn. We talk about class in Northern Ireland, the relationship between Belfast and the rest of Province, the impact of Brexit, the growing relevance of Northern Irish identity, and the influence on him of lasting friendships he made across the divide in his student days. We discuss the lasting impacts of the Belfast / Good Friday Agreement, and reflect on why Northern Ireland is such a great place to live today, not just in comparison to its past, but compared to many other parts of the British Isles.

Ian, a former prison governer and a counter-extremism expert, has been a senior adviser to governments. He now lives in Devon, but he grew up in Co. Fermanagh in the 1970s and 1980s. It's these experiences of growing up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles - happy summers on the lakes but also losing family friends to the IRA's bombing of Enniskillen's remembrance day in 1988 - that we talk about. He describes himself as an Irish unionist, which he jokes "triggers all the right people". It's an engaging glimpse into what a Northern Ireland childhood brings you, and into the particular circumstances of Fermanagh. "Things are very different out in the West."

Linzi talks about her life growing up in Antrim, her values and her move into politics. We discuss the importance of reaching out cross-community, integrated schooling, cultural issues and the vision she shares with Doug Beattie for a forward-looking and inclusive brand of unionism.