The Other Side of the Chart

In this deeply personal episode, Dr. Jill Goldenberg sits down with Ruth DiPasquale—a film and television professional, longtime New Yorker, and devoted caregiver.Ruth shares the story of her husband Stevie’s medical journey after treatment for prostate cancer led to devastating complications: severe radiation injury, repeated infections and sepsis, multiple surgeries, and years spent navigating hospitals and rehabilitation facilities.But this conversation isn’t only about illness. It’s about the often invisible labor of caregiving—the daily advocacy, emotional resilience, and relentless vigilance required to help a loved one survive a fragmented healthcare system.From learning to interpret lab results on her phone to spending hours at the bedside encouraging her husband to walk again, Ruth describes what it means to become a caregiver overnight—and how that experience changed both her life and her marriage.For clinicians, policymakers, and healthcare leaders, Ruth’s story offers an unfiltered look at what care feels like from the outside of the system.And for caregivers, it’s a reminder that the work you do—often unseen—is essential.

Season Two of The Other Side of the Chart begins by returning to the voices that shaped the beginning of the show.In this special opening episode, Dr. Jill Goldenberg revisits the first five conversations — not as a recap or a finale, but as a foundation. These voices help ground the questions that will guide Season Two:How do we make healthcare more human?And what gets lost when systems are designed without the people living inside them in mind?Across these reflections, a set of throughlines emerges — the tension between documentation and dignity, efficiency and empathy, innovation and lived experience. Together, these conversations remind us that healthcare doesn’t live in workflows or data alone, but in the space between people.Dalia, a patient living with multiple cancers, who reveals the disconnect between how the system documents her and how she actually feels — and why empathy and design are not “soft” considerations, but clinical ones.Dr. Victor Montori, who challenges the industrialization of medicine and calls for care that is careful, kind, and grounded in unhurried human connection.Dr. Barbara Morris, who brings us to the edge of care at the end of life, illuminating what patients truly want — to be heard, to have their suffering witnessed, and to be supported with honesty and dignity.Dr. Kevin Larsen, who examines how documentation drifted from a tool for thinking into a burden — and why technology alone can’t fix systems that ask clinicians to document what doesn’t matter.Pranam Ben, whose personal experience as a patient sparked a mission to rebuild healthcare infrastructure — and who reminds us that trust, transparency, and understanding are essential if transformation is to work.Together, these voices offer a roadmap for a future where innovation and humanity move together — where systems support clinicians instead of draining them, and where data serves patients instead of overshadowing them.This episode marks the beginning of Season Two — and a recommitment to listening.The next episode features Ruth, a caregiver whose years of navigating the healthcare system alongside someone she loves reveal a form of expertise that is essential — and too often invisible. Her story brings forward the caregiver perspective, a critical part of The Other Side of the Chart that rarely makes it into the record.Host & Producer: Dr. Jill GoldenbergMusic: Relaxing Motivational Corporate by Fretbound (Free Music Archive, CC BY 4.0)Production: G-Burg ProductionsIf this episode resonated, please follow, share, or leave a review. And thank you for being part of this community.In this episode, you’ll hear from:Up next in Season Two

As 2025 comes to a close, Dr. Jill Goldenberg reflects on the first year of The Other Side of the Chart  and the voices that shaped it.This brief episode looks back on conversations with patients, clinicians, and innovators, and looks ahead to a special 2026 kickoff episode, Voices from the First Five.Thank you for listening, and see you in the new year.

In this conversation, Pranam Ben, founder and CEO of The Garage, shares his mission to build the operating system for value-based care. Drawing from a deeply personal story of frustration within the U.S. healthcare system, Pranam set out to design a platform that empowers better care.We explore the difference between systems that track patients and those that actually know them, and how Pranam’s company now supports over 16 million patients and 26,000 providers across 48 states. He talks about the need for trust, transparency, and technology that supports, not replaces, the human elements of healthcare.We also dive into the quintuple aim, the evolution of patient-centered care, and why a digital-first, data-first transformation is essential to sustaining medicine for future generations.What I appreciated most is that Pranam doesn’t speak about market share or buzzwords, he talks about responsibility to people he’ll never meet, and about building tech that can prevent harm and restore connection at scale.As he says, this is just the beginning.Chapters00:00 A Mission Bigger Than Code01:43 Introduction to Pranam Ben04:25 Vitals Check: Theme Songs & Leadership Lessons06:30 From a Broken ER Visit to Building a Better System11:17 Founding The Garage and the First ACOs13:05 What It Means to Be the “Operating System for VBC”15:23 Patient-Centered Tech: Knowing, Not Just Tracking18:10 Avoiding 30,000 Hospitalizations: Real-World Impact19:34 Redefining Value-Based Care Through the Quintuple Aim21:35 The Role of Tech in Honoring Patient Autonomy23:58 Designing for Trust, Transparency & Access24:23 Why Pranam Is Bullish on the Future28:40 A Call to Support Digital-First, Human-First Transformation30:55 Final Reflections & What Gives Him Hope🔗 Connect with The Garage🌐 thegaragein.com🙋‍♀️ Connect with Jill / The Other Side of the Chart🌐 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-goldenberg-md-860104170/🎧 Subscribe and share the podcast💌 Want to be a guest? [email protected]

In this conversation, Dr. Victor Montori discusses the importance of careful and kind care in healthcare, contrasting it with the industrialized medicine model that often processes patients rather than caring for them. He emphasizes the need for systems that enable deep human connections between caregivers and care receivers, the significance of reframing patient non-compliance, and the concept of minimally disruptive medicine. Montori also highlights the power of shared decision-making and the challenges posed by current payment models in healthcare. The discussion culminates in an introduction to the Patient Revolution, a movement aimed at transforming healthcare into a more compassionate and patient-centered system.Chapters00:00 The Essence of Caregiving01:43 Introduction to Dr. Victor Montori05:23 Industrialized Medicine vs. Careful and Kind Care10:24 Reframing Non-Compliance in Patients14:18 Minimally Disruptive Medicine Explained17:11 The Power of Shared Decision Making21:27 Navigating Payment Models in Healthcare26:27 Bright Spots and Opportunities in Care30:40 The Patient Revolution: A Call to Action

What does it mean to truly die well? In this episode of The Other Side of the Chart, Dr. Jill Goldenberg sits down with Dr. Barbara Morris a geriatrician, advocate, founder of Geriatric Advocacy & Consulting, and co-founder and President of End of Life Options Colorado to explore the evolving landscape of end-of-life care.Dr. Morris shares her vision of what she calls “the symphony of their last days” — a model of care that is synchronized, compassionate, and centered on patient choice. Together, we unpack how hospice, palliative care, and medical aid in dying are changing in Colorado and beyond, and what it takes to bring dignity, agency, and humanity into the hardest conversations in medicine.This episode is a reminder that healthcare is not just about extending life, but about honoring it right up to the very end.🔗 Learn more: End of Life Options Colorado | Dr. Barbara Morris

In this episode of The Other Side of the Chart, host Dr. Jill Goldenberg sits down with Dr. Kevin Larsen, Senior Vice President of Clinical Innovation and former leader at CMS and ONC, to explore the evolution of medical documentation, from handwritten charts to AI-generated notes.Together, they unpack how documentation has shifted from a clinician’s memory aid to a complex record serving patients, payers, regulators, and more. The conversation spans the promise and pitfalls of OpenNotes, the elusive goal of a true longitudinal care plan, and the early “Nokia cell phone” stage of ambient AI in healthcare.With stories from his career leading health systems, policy, and innovation, Dr. Larsen reflects on how documentation can either widen the distance between people or bring them closer together. At its core, the discussion asks: Who is the medical note really for and how can it better serve patients and clinicians alike?

🎙️ Episode 1: Living the System – What Patients Wish We KnewGuest: Dalia – lawyer, mom, patient, and lifelong “VIP” (very involved patient)Summary:In this powerful premiere episode, host Dr. Jill Goldenberg sits down with Dalia, a lawyer and mother who has spent her entire life navigating the healthcare system. Diagnosed with her first tumor as a toddler and with multiple distinct cancers over the years, Dalia shares what it’s like to live on the receiving end of a system that often feels impersonal, disjointed, and difficult to navigate — even for the most informed patients.Dalia opens up about:The emotional toll of living with chronic, life-threatening illnessMoments of both dismissal and deep compassion in her careThe importance of open notes and patient access to the medical recordHow system design — from scheduling to physical space — shapes patient experienceHer vision for a better healthcare system that integrates public health, social supports, and simplified processesThrough Dalia’s story, we’re reminded that healthcare is personal, and the systems we build must reflect that. This episode is essential listening for anyone designing or delivering care — and for those ready to reimagine healthcare with patients at the center.

Welcome to The Other Side of the Chart — a podcast for healthcare leaders in technology, operations, and policy... and for anyone who's ever felt lost in the system.Hosted by Dr. Jill Goldenberg, a physician and leader in clinical informatics and value-based care, this show explores what healthcare could be if we designed it around real people. Each episode features candid conversations with patients, clinicians, and innovators — uncovering the human stories behind the data and the systems behind the care.In this short teaser, you’ll hear a glimpse from our premiere episode with Dalia — a lawyer, mom, and lifelong patient living with multiple cancers. And in our second episode, Dr. Kevin Larson joins us to unpack what clinical notes are really for — and what happens when patients can finally read them.Subscribe now and join us as we reimagine a healthcare system that works better for everyone — on both sides of the chart.Upcoming Episodes:Episode 1: Dalia’s Story — What Patients Wish We KnewEpisode 2: For the Record: Who Are We Documenting For with Dr. Kevin Larsen Credits:Intro/outro music: “Relaxing Motivational Corporate” by Fretbound, licensed under CC BY 4.0.freemusicarchive.org/music/fretboundConnect with Jill Goldenberg on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jillgoldenberg