WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT?

Today’s conversation is a special one. I’m joined by someone who’s been a collaborator and a dear friend in this work: Katharine K. Wilkinson.And tomorrow, May 5th, is publication day for Katharine's new book that’s the culmination of the last 5 years of her work — or perhaps of her lifetime. It’s called Climate Wayfinding: Healing Ourselves and the Planet We Call Home.It’s such an important book because the vast majority of people are concerned about climate change. But a much smaller portion of people are actively engaged in pushing forward solutions. And so much of whether and how we step up and lean in is about our feelings. How do we move from anxiety and dread into something more like, as she puts it, a shimmering purpose?If you have questions about your role in climate solutions — how to move from, as the back cover says “ache to action, from doubt to possibility” — Climate Wayfinding will help you navigate toward answers. Let’s be honest, we all have these questions! So, head on over to your local independent bookstore and and pick up Katherine’s book in all its periwinkle glory, or request it from your local library.Notes:Katharine’s article in TIME Magazine: The Climate Crisis Is a Call to Action. These 5 Steps Helped Me Figure Out How to Be of Use.This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and myself with support from Jenisha Shrestha.Alright, earthlings. You know the motto: Take climate change seriously, but let’s not take ourselves too seriously. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

In the spirit of the What If We Get It Right? paperback launch, sharing an excerpt of the audiobook. The heart of this audiobook is 20 interviews with people who have shaped my understanding of the answer to the titular question. It’s kind of like a whole season of a podcast packaged up with essays by me and poetry by others. Also, ahem, the audiobook was a finalist for the Audie Award. (If you’re gonna lose, lose to Stephen King.)Order the full audiobook here.The prelude, the first chapter, is “An Ocean Love Story.” It’s about how I fell in love with coral reefs at 5 years old, and how the ripples that flowed from that have shaped the unfurling of my life ever since.This chapter is my origin story, in brief. From Brooklyn, New York, to Key West, Florida, to Washington, DC, and the Caribbean. It's one of the most personal things I’ve ever published. A little funny. A lot honest. It’s the start of my quest to understand how we, humans, can get it as right as possible here on this magnificent planet. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it has similarities with your story, too. ____CREDITS: This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. The original audiobook was produced by Olivia Langen for Penguin Random House audio, recorded at Expanding Sky Studios in Brunswick, Maine.____Subscribe to the WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? newsletter. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Back in September 2024, on the day my book What If We Get It Right? was published, I did one of the most absurd and delightful things I’ve ever done. I co-hosted an over-the-top goofy Climate Variety Show with actor Jason Sudeikis at the Brooklyn Museum. Sold out crowd. Strong high school talent show energy. And we took the “variety” in variety show seriously – magic, music, hula hoops, comedy, costumes, dance off, and of course many shoutouts to climate solutions. Honestly have trouble believing it actually happened. Total fever dream of a “What if we…?” question. 🧐As we gear up for the publication of the paperback on April 14th, I’m thinking back on the hardcover launch oh so fondly. So today’s episode is re-run of the very 1st episode of our podcast, which was an audio montage, if you will, of excerpts from that variety show (and enjoy some photos here!).A tiny time machine to revisit the silliness that transpired a year and a half ago. I present to you: ✨The Climate Variety Show.✨For the visuals to go with it, peep my slideshow (and subscribe to the newsletter while you're there!): https://ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/p/climate-variety-show-slideshowAlso! Paperback tour = Climate Dance Parties. If you love the Earth, dance with us. 🌎🕺🏽 Kicking off April 14th — Brooklyn, Monterey, Manhattan, San Diego, Los Angeles, Maine! Snag your tickets here: www.getitright.earth/tour.And while you’re on the crazy internet, pretty please pre-order the paperback from your local bookstore or bookshop.org. 📚 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hello Earthlings, we are back with a new episode of the What If We Get It Right? podcast. This is the first episode of Season 4, which will be a short season — maybe 6 episodes? Not sure! We’ll see how it goes.Today’s conversation, with Dr. Heidi Roop, was recorded at The Great Northern festival’s Climate Solutions Series in Minneapolis on January 31st.Dr. Roop is an expert in climate science and adaptation. She is the Director of the University of Minnesota Climate Adaptation Partnership. From 2024-2025, she served two presidential administrations as the Assistant Director of Climate Services in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. During this time, she also served as Acting Executive Director of the U.S. Global Change Research Program, coordinating research and services across the over fourteen federal agencies and advising the White House on how to effectively manage climate risks.She also wrote a wonderful book, with incredible infographics, called The Climate Action Handbook: A Visual Guide to 100 Climate Solutions for Everyone, which I highly recommend.So... it’s a little odd that she was interviewing me and not the other way around! Yes, this is an unusual episode in that I am the one getting asked the questions. But it was such a wonderful event and conversation that I thought I’d share it to give you all a sense of where my head is at these days. These wild days.Special thanks to The Great Northern and Bell Museum, for hosting this conversation. And a huge shoutout to the good humans of Minneapolis, continuing to hold it down and be truly excellent neighbors and citizens.This episode was produced by Remoy Phillip, and me, Ayana, with support from assistant producer Jenisha Shrestha.This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hello Earthlings! Welcome back to What If We Get It Right?While you and I know that we already have most of the climate solutions we need — it’s more a matter of how quickly and justly we are going to implement them — most people do not know this. And you kinda can’t blame them because most of the news, plus movies and TV and social media, focus on climate problems.This is a massive storytelling challenge. We have a narrative gap, to put it mildly.And so for this special last episode of the season, I had the pleasure of sitting down with award-winning filmmaker and writer dream hampton in front of an audience at Bowdoin College in mid-November. For her whole career, dream has been making art about power and justice, and more recently has been creating works about climate, which, of course, I’ve been thrilled about. Her credentials are deep, as both community organizer and artist. Recently, she was showrunner and executive producer on the Emmy-nominated documentary series Surviving R. Kelly, which earned her a Peabody Award. In 2019, TIME magazine named dream one of the most influential people in the world, and she’s certainly been influencing my thinking in the decade or so I’ve known her.Here, we talk about how to embed climate solutions into popular culture, and the history of how activists (and bad actors) have utilized various storytelling, narrative-setting strategies. As dream put it in her opening remarks:Stories don’t just reflect the world. They create it. They decide who the heroes are, what problems matter and what futures feel possible. So what story is shaping your worldview? What story could you help write? What future do you want for Maine and who stands beside you in that story? How will your generation turn anxiety into action and possibility into progress?We screened dream’s beautiful film Freshwater. It’s a meditative, intimate, quietly devastating piece that uses the language of memory, water, and place to make climate change feel personal. dream narrates, talking us through flooded basements of homes in her home city of Detroit, Michigan.We also played and discussed A Message from the Future with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, which lays out a compelling vision for what the future could look like if the bold promise of a Green New Deal became reality — animated gorgeously by Molly Crabapple. It depicts a future that feels possible and tangible; an imperfect future, but one very much worth fighting for. Watch it below. And as a bonus, watch dream’s explainer of the War on Drugs, narrated by Jay-Z and again illustrated Molly Crabapple — a powerful example of narrative-setting, and a precursor to the GND video that helped establish the form.And that’s a wrap on What If We Get It Right? Season 3!If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help others find us — follow, rate, and review the show. ✅ Send the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss! 🗣️Notes:This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.BIG thanks to Bowdoin College for bringing dream to campus and producing this event, with a special shoutout to Benje Douglas. This episode was produced and edited by Remoy Philip and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.If you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨Shoutout:While the WIWGIR podcast goes on break for a few months, we recommend cuing up the latest season of How We Survive, a podcast from Marketplace that will give you new perspective on your holiday meals. Host Amy Scott investigates how the climate crisis is threatening our agricultural systems and how scientists are racing to develop alternatives that will shape the future of food.Plus, check out their free climavore-friendly cookbook. It features recipes from Amy, “The Splendid Table” host Francis Lam, and Samin Nosrat, chef and author of “Salt Fat Acid Heat” and “Good Things.”P.S. dream’s shirt! 🇯🇲 IYKYK Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

What if businesses got creative to unleash funding, political influence, and cultural clout to address our environmental challenges?What if corporations were driven not by maximizing quarterly earnings and shareholder profits, but by being good citizens of planet Earth?There are some companies truly trying to get it right. I happen to be on the board of one of them – the outdoor company Patagonia. I joined the board of directors in 2021, as Patagonia was going through a major transition that resulted in the world having one less billionaire, the founder Yvon Chouinard, and a plan to give away basically all the company’s profits to environmental causes in perpetuity.I thought you might like a peak behind the curtain of all this, so I sat down with the CEO, Ryan Gellert, to dig into the values and practices that have shaped not just Patagonia, but set a high bar across sectors for everything from materials and manufacturing, to worker’s rights and activism, to philanthropy. Now, it’s not a perfect company, certainly, environmentally or otherwise, but it’s a model worth considering.Links/resources for the topics we covered, are all in the newsletter: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

About a third of our climate problem is caused by agriculture and land use. So, what are we gonna do about it?One key solution is shifting to regenerative agriculture, aka growing food in ways that are actually good for soil and ecosystems and water and air.Our guest this episode is Dave Herring, executive director of Wolfe’s Neck Center for Agriculture and the Environment. It’s is a farm-based education, research, and visitor center set amidst more than 600 acres of conserved open space on the coast of Maine’s Casco Bay.Dave and I talked about helping farmers make the transition to regenerative practices, getting involved in environmental policy, running a farm camp so kids understand how their food is grown, and working to make our food system a part of our climate solutions.CALL TO ACTION: Really think about (and get more curious about) where your food is coming from. And eat more local, more seasonal, more plant-based.If you’re in a position to help others access nutritious food, please do. Our neighbors and food pantries and soup kitchens need our support. Find resources near you 💛: findhelp.orgAnd if you’re inspired by what you heard in this episode, and furious that the Trump administration cancelled their grant to do exceedingly important work, support Wolfe’s Neck Center! 👩🏽‍🌾: wolfesneck.org.Podcast notes:If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help others find us — follow, rate, and review the show. ✅ Text the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss! 🗣️This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced and edited by Remoy Philip and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.If you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨ Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Today’s episode is all about HEAT, that climate change bummer from which so many other impacts ripple out. The Earth is hotter now than at any other point in all of human history. From our homes and our jobs, to our policies and culture, how do we adapt? My guests for grappling with all this are Jainey Bavishi and Jeff Goodell.Jainey served as deputy head of NOAA under President Biden, and as head of resiliency for NYC under Mayor de Blasio. Perhaps you remember her from Season 2: “The Future of Coastal Cities.”Jeff is the author of the New York Times bestseller The Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet. He has also been a climate reporter at Rolling Stone for over two decades.BONUS CONTENT: Head to the newsletter (ayanaelizabeth.substack.com) to watch the hilarious cold open by Brad Einstein with sassy Earth puppet.Follow, rate, review! ✅ Text your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss!CREDITS: This episode was recorded live at Pioneer Works during Climate Week NYC. This podcast is supported by Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.Special thanks to Pioneer Works and Wellcome Foundation for hosting this live taping. This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Last week, I received the TIME Earth Award at the TIME100 Next gala. I worked really hard on my acceptance speech because it was an opportunity to recruit those 100 culture-shaping rising stars to get more involved in climate solutions. We need them! I’m sharing this speech with you in the hopes that hearing the way I speak about climate issues in rooms of power will encourage you to also speak up. Because the truth is that every one of us has a sphere of influence we should be activating.For the transcript, video, and photos head to my newsletter: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com. And while you're there, I'm curious: What would you have said if you had that microphone? Let me know in the comments.Thank you to Future Being for keeping this podcast ad-free, to Remoy Philip for producing this episode, and to assistant producer Jenisha Shrestha.Okay, Earthlings 🌎, that’s it for now. We’ll be back next week with a piping hot new interview episode. Stay tuned… Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

For those of us trying to advance climate solutions (go team!), there’s always the question of how to be more impactful, how to bring more people along with us into this work. And often the answer is not fancier technology or more brilliant policy, it’s more compelling communication for recruiting and persuasion.Today’s podcast guest, John Marshall, is an expert in marketing. He spent the first half of his career working with corporations who want to sell us stuff. And now, as founding executive director of the nonprofit Potential Energy, he’s using those same tools to sell climate solutions.So, what messages are most effective? What words should we use or avoid? Who are the best messengers? What’s his advice for me about how to be a better one? And what’s love got to do with it?I learned so much, including that we simply have to talk about climate MORE. So, Earthlings, let’s get into it!John’s CALL TO ACTION 🗣️Rally your crew, build the team: "Do things, invite people. You invite three people and they invite three people, and that’s how change actually happens. And that’s how we get an acceleration. So do talk about it with somebody. Invite somebody to do something together."Simple, necessary, and something each of us can do more of. To put it in the words of Bill McKibben, sometimes the best thing an individual can do is to stop being such an individual.Podcast notes:If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help others find us — follow, rate, and review the show. ✅ Text the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss!This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.If you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨ Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Almost exactly three years ago (Oct 14, 2022) a couple of climate activists hurled tomato soup at Vincent Van Gogh’s painting “Sunflowers.” It got a whole bunch of press. Do you remember this? Did you ever look into who did it and why?Well, this week on the What If We Get It Right? podcast, we’re gonna get to the bottom of it. I’m sharing the first episode of the climate podcast Sabotage: “The Splat.” Season 1 of this fascinating investigative show, tells the story of the people behind the climate activism group Just Stop Oil. Co-hosted by Alessandra Ram and Samantha Oltman, the show asks: How radical is radical when it comes to climate activism right now? And it all starts with the splat heard round the world — that tomato soup splashing all over the painting’s glass and frame and the wood floor in London’s National Gallery.I hope you enjoy this episode of Sabotage as much as I did. Subscribe! Their season 2 is dropping soon..._____I’ll be back with a new interview episode next week. In the meantime, my call to action for you: VOTE CLIMATE ✅Election day in the U.S. is November 4th. For the love of all that is good, please vote. Check details for your polling place and what’s on your local ballot at iwillvote.com. There are so many important local positions and ballot initiatives. Do your research, share useful info with friends & neighbors. And be sure to research the climate platforms of all candidates. Duh. See Lead Locally’s endorsements here.Then, hit the phones ☎️: Phone bank with Environmental Voter Project and Lead Locally. (And listen to Season 1, Episode #2: Vote Climate for my conversation with the founders of those organizations.)Until we as Earth-lovers become a formidable voting block, politicians won’t prioritize climate policy. So GOTMFV! Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

This week I’m chatting with environmental lawyer Abigail Dillen, president of Earthjustice, a nonprofit law firm whose tagline is “because the Earth needs a good lawyer.” Indeed, it does.The stakes, in her words: “We could come out of this time with neither presidential authority nor congressional authority to create, and enforce strong environmental laws.”Oof. But we are not quitters, right team? So, from from the Supreme Court, to suing the government, to Project Phoenix, to her spicy take on the whole abundance narrative, Earthlings 🌎, let’s dive in.Abbie’s CALL TO ACTION 🗣️ Buckle up, this is an especially nerdy one: Read Supreme Court dissents in order to fire yourself up, starting with what Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson had to say in Trump v. CASA, on universal injunctions and beyond.Notes:If you’re enjoying this podcast, help others find us — follow, rate, and review. ✅ Text the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss!This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Food is a major driver of our environmental problems. It uses ~38% of Earth’s land, drives ~70% of our water use, and emits ~22-34% of our greenhouse gas pollution globally. I know it’s not popular to say it, but a lot of that impact is driven by beef and dairy.On the one hand, agriculture is driving deforestation and warming the planet. And on the other hand, our changed climate is determining what foods we can continue to grow and where.So, this week I’m sharing what turned out to be, notwithstanding those terrible stats I just rattled off, an utterly delightful conversation with food mega nerd Sam Kass.Sam was Senior Policy Advisor for Nutrition in the White House during the Obama administration, and he was also White House chef. He is the founder of TROVE and a partner in Acre Venture Partners. In 2012, he helped create the American Chef Corps, which is dedicated to promoting diplomacy through culinary initiatives. And he has a new book that just came out on October 7 called The Last Supper: How to Overcome the Coming Food Crisis.This conversation, recorded live during Climate Week in NYC at an event organized by PlanetFWD, is a sneak peak into what Sam covers in the book — from what our last supper might be missing (sorry to the coffee, chocolate and wine lovers), the enormously important role of culture, stories from his time in the White House (like the organic vegetable garden he created with FL Michelle Obama), and how what we eat and how we farm can be SOLUTIONS.And I can’t miss the chance to say that it is my fervent belief that the climate movement needs more dinner parties! So when you’re done listening, make a plan to gather with good people over nourishing food and conspire about implementing climate solutions.Notes:If you’re enjoying the show, please help others find us — follow, rate, review, tell your crew! ✅This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.Special thanks to Julia Collins and the team at PlanetFWD for hosting this live taping. This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.Bon appetite, Earthlings 🌎 xo Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

"Every single day you live you make a difference in the world, and you get to choose the difference that you make." — Jane GoodallLast week, when I heard that Jane Goodall had died, it knocked the wind out of me. It hit me as more than a loss; it felt like the end of an era. A naturalist, a deep thinker, an expert, and so elegant, Jane's animals, of nature, set the bar for how much we each could and should devote ourselves to preserving life on Earth.Amid the outpourings on social media this comment struck me: “I want to live in a country where the flags are flown at half mast for Jane Goodall.” YES.In 2021, I was a guest on Jane's podcast called The Hopecast. I couldn’t let myself just be interviewed by her — how absurd for me to be the one doing all the talking when with such a luminary! — so it was a conversation.I’m so glad to get to share her voice with you; a reflection of her abundant soft power. She titled this episode “Hope is Courage and Taking Action Together.” (Note: I do not recommend debating the value of hope with Jane Goodall!)Video clips from this episodes are in my newsletter: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com.Credits: Thank you to the Jane Goodall Institute for producing this original conversation, Remoy Philip for producing the version for this podcast, and assistant producer Jenisha Shrestha.CALL TO ACTION: Support the continuation of Jane’s work by encouraging a young person or educator to get involved with her Roots & Shoots organization. There are tons of resources for organizing and action on their website. Taking action to protect and restore nature is by far the best way to honor Jane’s incredibly legacy. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Today’s guest is Jigar Shah, a clean energy entrepreneur who served as director of the Loan Program Office in the US Department of Energy during the Biden administration. Previously, he was co-founder of Generate Capital, founder of Sun Edison, and founding CEO of the Carbon War Room. Now, he’s advising clean energy companies. He’s also a devout optimist. (I know, go figure.)I interviewed Jigar for my book What if We Get It Right? back in April of 2023. Given how much has changed in the last 2+ years — especially since the start of the Trump administration 🫠 — I wanted check in with Jigar on where things stand on the clean energy transition. (AKA, WTF?!). From critical minerals to energy justice, to geothermal and nuclear, to battery recycling and salt caverns, we got into it all, folks.TL;DR “We need to stop chasing shiny objects and start just executing on stuff that hasn’t yet been fully deployed.” — Jigar ShahAn abridged version of this interview will be added into the paperback edition of What If We Get It Right?, which will be coming your way in time for Earth Day. 📚✨And while you’re listening, it’s super duper helpful if you follow, rate, review, and tell your crew. ✅ Thanks!JIGAR'S CALL TO ACTION 🗣️“People need to get engaged civically, in their sphere of influence. I don’t care whether it’s your school board, your knitting club, your church, your city council, your county, or if you have ambitions for your state, get involved and tell people: This is what is awesome. This is where my kids are gonna find a job. This is what is going to unlock all of this clean air and clean water.I think people just assume this technology is gonna sell itself and it’s gonna be fine. We actually need permission from the local permitting board. We need permission from the local city council.Think about how many school districts are saying, “Ugh, we know that all the diesel fumes are hurting the kids in the school buses, but it’s just too hard to go to electric, so we’re just gonna let another generation of kids suffer from fumes from diesel and school buses.” What? That’s your official policy? No! Get to the school board meeting.Get involved because it matters. We are in this extraordinary revolution that’s gonna be beneficial for everyone. And I think people are just like, “Yeah, it’s gonna be fun to watch from the sidelines.” No! Get in the game.”NOTES:If you want more from Jigar, that’s smart of you. Check out his podcast Open Circuit, and follow him on LinkedIn.This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.And if you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨ Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Earthlings, hello! 👋🏽 This week’s guest is Ari Matusiak, CEO of Rewiring America, a nonprofit focused on accelerating the clean energy transition.With the Inflation Reduction Act’s clean energy tax credits expiring on December 31st, I wanted to sit down with Ari to talk about our energy bills, how we can still install heat pumps and more before those incentives run out, how your home could become energy infrastructure for your community. Plus, soba noodles, K-pop, and the very sexy topic of group scheduling. Hold onto your hats. This episode is going to be electrifying. ⚡️CALL TO ACTION 🗣️ from Ari: Visit www.rewiringamerica.org/save to learn about the Save on Better Appliances (SOBA) campaign and, in Ari’s words: "Get yourself a tax credit. Get yourself an electric coach. Get yourself a contractor. And get yourself something electric at the electric store."Notes:Check out Rewiring America’s new report: Homegrown Energy: How household upgrades can meet 100 percent of data center demand growth.This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.If you're enjoying the show, follow, rate, review, and to help others find us. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

This August marked 20 years since Hurricane Katrina, and the devastation that storm had across the Gulf South is still reverberating throughout the country. Today I’m talking with Dr. Samantha Montano, a professor of emergency management at Massachusetts Maritime Academy and co-founder of Disaster Researchers for Justice. She wrote a great book called Disasterology: Dispatches from the Frontlines of the Climate Crisis. Now, amidst a continuing string of disastrous storms and wildfires, there are massive cuts at FEMA. We are clearly getting this very wrong. So I wanted to check back in with Samantha to understand what’s really going on at FEMA under the Trump Administration 🧐 (from the horror of “Alligator Alcatraz” to dealing with cyberattacks), whether we’re more prepared for hurricanes now than we were 20 years ago (spoiler: nope!), and what we can do individually and collectively to up our preparedness game.🙋🏽‍♀️CALLS TO ACTION from Samantha:* ☎️ Call your member of Congress — (202) 224-3121: They don’t get many calls supporting FEMA, so this is helpful. Let them know: (1) we need funding for FEMA, (2) we need to hire more people at FEMA, (3) we need to remove FEMA from under the Dept of Homeland Security and re-establish it as a standalone agency, and (4) we need a qualified, Senate-confirmed emergency manager leading the agency.* 👩🏽‍💻 Sign up for emergency alerts!: Absurdly, there is no centralized way to do this. So, embark on a tiny research project: google your town name + “emergency management,” and then find your county and state alerts too. This was you can be informed and ready to be a good neighbor.* Advocate for local resources: Look into you local emergency management agency. Do they have funding? Do they have staff? Do they have a qualified person leading? Be the advocate in your community for emergency management — they don't have a lot of advocates at the local level, so this can really help.NOTES:If you're enjoying the show, please help others find us — follow, rate, review, and tell your crew! Keep up with Dr. Montano's work via her Substack newsletter: Disasterology, a monthly dispatch of interesting and/or important disaster things.This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being. This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.Alright, Earthlings 🌎 see you next week. xo Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to Season 3 of the What If We Get It Right? podcast! 🥳 If you’re new here: This show is about what we need to do to address the climate crisis, and how to make those things happen. Here, we take climate change seriously but absolutely do not take ourselves seriously. We take a brutally honest look at the science, policy, economics, and culture of climate issues, and dive in on solutions and strategies that will help us create a livable future on Planet Earth.My first guest for Season 3 is a stalwart of the climate movement. Bill McKibben is an environmentalist and journalist who, more than anyone, has proven to me the power of the pen. The words he writes have changed policies (e.g., Heat Pumps for Peace and Freedom!) and helped mobilize millions.Bill’s got (for good reason) the most popular climate newsletter on Substack: The Crucial Years (highly recommend). And his new book, Here Comes The Sun, is an ode to the potential and necessity of massively ramping up solar energy.Bill is founder of the non-profit Third Act, organizing his elder generation for action on climate and justice. (Join their Rocking Chair Rebellion.) They’re instigating Sun Day, the international day of action to celebrate clean energy 🥳, which will happen September 21st, the autumnal equinox. Head to sunday.earth to find an event near you.I first met Bill when he came to Harvard to teach a climate seminar when I was an undergrad, and 25 years later, I’m so thrilled to be talking with him about the circular economy of photons, his modest proposal to make it rain solar panels, what his crew of old fogey climate activists is up to, the concept of energy liberation, and what he sees in his crystal ball._____If you enjoy these conversations, follow the show, rate us, and tell all your friends. I know every podcast host says this 🫣, but given the ways algorithms etc. work, it truly is important for helping new listeners find us.And thank you to Future Being, a grant making and special project studio that supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. Their support keeps this show ad-free. This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli and me, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.If you’ve read/listened all the way to the end: There is a prize! For the first 3 people who comment on this newsletter post sharing what you found most interesting or surprising about this conversation, I will send you a copy of Bill’s book. 💌 Drop your response at: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com.Also, I want to know: What are you going to do to celebrate Sun Day on September 21st?!?Alright, Earthlings. 🌎 See ya next week... Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hey there Earthlings. 🌎 Season 3 is launching next week! Thus, here’s a trailer with tidbits from previous seasons to get you stoked. We’ve got a dozen ace guests booked, and 4 episodes already recorded. We’re diving all the way in — on clean energy, FEMA, farming, messaging, and so much more. I’ll be re-interviewing a few of the experts I interviewed for my book because, turns out, some things have changed in the last year. 🫠 Anyway, follow/subscribe, rate/review, share with your homies. More coming very soon... Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

I'm aiming to live a more analog life in August (🛶🥾🏕️), so, until September, leaving you with this summer listening: an excerpt from my audiobook, the chapter titled “Away From the Brink.” To remind you, that book (which inspired this podcast) is What If We Get It Right?: Visions of Climate Futures.This chapter is essentially my answer to the BIG question: What if we get it right? What would that look like and feel like? I hope it's appealing to you — and perhaps even sparks something in you.If you dig it, you can listen to the whole audiobook wherever you listen to those. Or, if you prefer to consume books the old fashioned way, head over to the library or your local bookstore. Maybe you’ll find a kindred spirit in the nature aisle.And I’ll be back in September with fresh episodes of What If We Get It Right?, plus a tour of colleges across the US. (More on that in my newsletter: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com.) Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hey there Earthlings. I’m living a more analog life this summer (highly recommend). 🛶🏕️📚 So for this week’s episode, I want to introduce you to another podcast I think you just might love.It’s called Science Vs., hosted by Wendy Zuckerman. In each episode they tackle a different topic to sort out what’s fact, what’s fiction, and what’s still TBD.As a scientist and lover of facts, I super appreciate how Wendy and her team dig into the scientific literature, fact check everything, share their sources, and interview experts. So I think you’ll enjoy the episode “Climate Crisis: We’re Solving It?!” Their description:“The climate is a mess. It's hot. There's fires, floods, hurricanes — and we may have even crossed some rather scary climate tipping points. But there is hope. So today, we’re answering your questions about solving the climate crisis. We find out how you can help in the fight against climate change, if carbon offsets are a scam, whether renewables really work and what exciting new technologies could help save the planet. Our guests are Dr. Sven Teske at the University of Technology, Sydney, and Wei Sue, head of strategy at Monash University's Climateworks Center.”If you dig it, subscribe! Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hey there Earthlings. 🩵 If you’ve been paying any attention to U.S. politics, these past 2 weeks have been a doozy.So, let’s get into the Big Brutal Billionaire Bailout Bill of it all. Welcome to this very special collab episode of What If We Get It Right? x Twigg & Jenkins. Carri Twigg (hey bestie) and Brad Jenkins (who was her officemate in the Obama White House) host my favorite politics podcast. So smart, so incisive, so fun. Yes, you should definitely follow/subscribe.We hopped on a call to sort through the wreckage together. WTF just happened with climate, healthcare, militarization, and our democracy? What should the Democrats do next? Sometimes you gotta dive way in to how things went so wrong to see what getting it right would have looked like. Also, the Beyoncé tour.Looking for what to do next? Here's my take.HOT TIPS:* If you were thinking about getting an electric vehicle, BUY IT NOW. The new budget bill cancels the $7,500 tax credit for EVs that was established through Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), and the tax credit for leasing EVs too, effective Sept 30th.* If you were thinking of making energy efficiency/electrification improvements to your home, DO IT NOW. The new budget bill cancels the IRA tax credits for everything from solar panels (30% credit!), to induction stoves, heat pumps, insulating your attic, installing more energy efficient windows and doors, etc., effective December 31, 2025.CREDITS: This podcast is made possible with the support of Future being a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This episode was produced and edited by Matthew Nelson and me (Ayana) with help from Associate Producer Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

If you have a Republican senator: call, email, comment on all their social posts. Tell them to vote NO on the abominable budget bill. Get your friends to do it too. ☎️ Seriously, call Congress: (202) 224-3121. (Especially if you live in Maine or Alaska.) Details in this week's newsletter and all over the news.Okay, Season 2 is a wrap — 12 delightful conversations with people showing us the ways forward on climate. This summer, we’ll be dreaming up season 3… so if have any wishes, ideas, or requests, drop a note over on Substack and let us know: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com. Piping hot new content coming in autumn, and in the meantime, enjoy the 24 episodes in the full back catalog. We’ll also drop some other treats in the feed for ya over the summer.But for now, a rerun of one of my favorite episodes from Season 1: a conversation with adrienne maree brown, best-selling author, activist, facilitator, a songwriter, a poet, and a doula. I've read and highly recommend her books Emergent Strategies and Loving Corrections. This was recorded November 2024, just a few days before the presidential election, but these insights from adrienne, and the topics we grappled with, are still right on time — including major questions of our era like which one of us would be Rhianna and which one of us would be Beyoncé. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Today’s guest is Ben Wolkon. Ben is founding partner at MUUS Climate Partners, a venture capital firm that invests exclusively in climate solutions, and operates on the belief that “climate is the biggest business opportunity of the 21st century.”To be honest, when I think of venture capital, I often think of like that "greed is good" mentality and just corny finance bros. And maybe that's a bit unfair. But I'm also very pleased to say that Ben is nothing like that. He's thoughtful, and generous, super funny, and cares so deeply about this sweet planet we live on.We discussed the role of venture capital in climate solutions, the cool high tech emerging technologies that he’s most excited about, and how critical it is that we keep a sense of humor.Ben’s CALLS TO ACTIONMake your voice heard to policymakers at the federal level. Right now, there is a bill in the Senate that has massive ramifications for climate policy. Call your reps and tell them not to cut funding for climate solutions!Make your voice heard at the state and local levels. Advocate for more bike lanes, or more trees planted, or better transportation policy. The more you do that, the more the politicans who count on your votes will understand that these issues should be a priority for them.If you want a climate-focused job, get proactive about finding one. Breaking into climate tech or breaking into some job that has an environmental benefit is actually super easy once you start looking and start trying. Make cold calls! We need you.Mentioned in this episode* MUUS Climate Partners* Vox: Jay Inslee’s presidential campaign is all about climate change* Clean tech companies: BrightNight, Panthalassa, Cache Energy* Data centers in the U.S. consume about 4.4% of the country’s total electricity demand in 2023, and that is expected to triple to 12% by 2028.* The Inflation Reduction Act could have put the U.S. on a path to reduce emissions by up to 48% by 2035.CREDITS: This episode was made possible with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This show is produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me (Ayana), with help from Jenisha Shrestha. And many thanks to our guest Ben Wolkon. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Today is publication day for our favorite climate scientist. Dr. Kate Marvel wrote a book called Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet. Kate is a researcher at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (one of the world’s leading research centers), where she specializes in climate modeling. Although, given the various infuriating, retrograde, anti-climate science shenanigans of the Trump administration 😤, who knows how much longer that will remain the case...I wrote a blurb for the back cover of Human Nature: “This is the best climate book I’ve ever read. It’s magnificent—both planetary and personal, saturated with electric metaphors, incisive vignettes, legitimately funny jokes, and an unflappable, knowing love for Earth, our home.”Which is to say, buy this book and enjoy this conversation with Dr. Marvel: her science origin story, what her book is all about, how climate science is under attack by the Trump administration — and what that means for Kate’s work, and all of us.Kate’s CALLS TO ACTION* Stand up for our ability to understand the Earth, aka climate research. Call your representatives and senators. Call your mom and tell her to call her reps and senators.* Learn a bit more about climate science.Mentioned in this episode* Alarmed by Trump Cuts, Scientists Are Talking Science. For 100 Hours. covered by New York Times* Goddard Institute for Space Studies* Why Is NASA Shuttering This Iconic Institute in New York City?* Kate’s book: Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet* Dance Your Ph.D. contestCredits: This episode was made possible with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This show is produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me (Ayana), with help from Jenisha Shrestha. And many thanks to our guest Dr. Kate Marvel. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Alexia Leclercq is a face of the youth climate movement — something that, as we discussed, is a tricky thing to be.She is a grassroots environmental justice organizer and scholar in Austin, Texas. Alexia is also co-founder of the Colorado River Conservancy and of Start:Empowerment, an education non-profit that provides students and teachers with an immersive climate justice curriculum. She’s led campaigns at the international and local levels to phase out fossil fuels, fight for clean water, and so much more — and she’s still in her mid-20s!In this conversation, we talk about the impact of social media and influencer culture on the climate movement, how the generations – from Alpha to Boomer to Zoomer – can collaborate, and what getting it right looks like in her home state of Texas.There’s nothing like hearing someone half your age describing their strategy and devotion to climate solutions — what a kick in the pants to step up your own work! Tune in, get inspired, and take up her call to action.ALEXIA’S CALL TO ACTION* Find an ongoing campaign happening in your community/town/city and do one thing to show up for that existing campaign — whether it’s social or environmental justice, affordable housing, whatever it is, do something for a local campaign.Mentioned in the episode:* More than 90% of Democrats, Republicans and Independents consider right to clean and clean water to be “essential rights important to being an American today.”* Young Scholars for Justice* Alexia’s organization, Start:Empowerment is a youth BIPOC-led non-profit at the nexus of climate education, solutions, and environmental justice.* Alexia’s op-ed on Teen Vogue: Social Media Influencers Get Media Attention on Climate Change — Grassroots Activists Don’t* Colorado River Conservancy* People Organized in Defense of Earth and Her Resources (PODER)CREDITSThis episode was made possible with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This show is produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me (Ayana), with help from Jenisha Shrestha. And many thanks to our guest Alexia Leclerq. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

For this live event at the WBUR Festival, Gina McCarthy and I discussed the EPA, the IRA, what’s at stake for us all... and, why we must never, ever pave paradise.Gina led the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under President Obama, was president of NRDC, and then, under President Biden, became the first ever National Climate Advisor, setting up a climate team in the White House.Perhaps Gina’s crowning achievement was her work on the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA). Congress passed this landmark bill in 2022, which allocated about $400 billion to the clean energy transition and has so far created over 400,000 clean energy jobs. It also reframed climate action as an economic opportunity — America can move away from fossil fuels, while reinvigorating the economy.It was a huge deal, pivotal both in dollars and in shifting the status quo. But much of this climate progress, much of Gina’s work, is now under threat from the Trump administration. 🤬 So, Gina's shared her take on where we go from here.Gina’s Calls to Action* Work in your communities at the local level. Build constituencies. It’s all about working together.* Don’t let young people think they don’t have a future. Show them they have a hand in building the future.Mentioned in this episode:* EPA’s clean power plant rule* The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is the largest investment for climate in U.S. history.* Roughly 80% of IRA benefits in republican districts.* More than 400,000 new clean energy jobs have been created since the passage of IRA.* Texas and Iowa lead on wind energy generation.* Utility-scale solar is the cheapest form of energy, in most places.* America is All In initiative* My op-ed in Rolling Stone: What Now for Climate under Trump? Act Locally* Almost half the drinking water in the country is contaminated.* They Poisoned the World: Life and Death in the Age of Forever Chemicals by Mariah BlakeCredits: This episode was made possible with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This show is produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me (Ayana), with help from Jenisha Shrestha. Thank you to WBUR and Grist for hosting us, and many thanks to Gina McCarthy. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Today’s episode is a very sweet reunion with my former podcast co-host Alex Blumberg. Alex and I co-created How to Save a Planet, which ran for 2 years as Spotify’s flagship climate show. This episode opens with the hilariously unlikely origin story of our fab collab. (Note: When you hit play, remember to also follow this podcast :)Podcast nerds will be familiar with Alex’s work, but for the rest: Alex was a longtime producer at This American Life, one of the biggest radio/podcast shows of all-time. He went on to co-create to show Planet Money, and then co-founded Gimlet Media, a podcast company that launched huge shows like Reply All and Science Vs. Gimlet also made How to Save a Planet. This was our first time back in a recording studio together since 2022. He’s now retired from podcasting — he hung up his headphones and launched something entirely different, something that makes him a legitimate guest on this show about getting it right on climate. What exactly is that something? Well, Alex taught me the importance of a good narrative tease, so if you want to find out, you’re just going to have to listen.Alex’s CALLS TO ACTION* Less hectoring and less judgment and more doing. Just figure out something to do that can affect somebody beyond you. (Climate Venn anyone?)* Join your condo/HOA boards to advocate for clean energy and energy efficiency measuresMentioned in the episode:* How to Save a Planet — check out the back catalog on Spotify or Apple* Alex’s company: Daisy Chain Energy* Buildings and construction account for 38% of CO2 emissions globally—cement manufacturing alone accounts for 8%* NYC’s building energy grading law requires buildings to benchmark their energy and water consumption. (Get an A on* NYC’s Local Law 97 (enacted in 2019) aims to drive deep emissions cuts from buildings, which are responsible for more than two-thirds of NYC’s greenhouse gas emissions.* IRS residential clean energy credit (30% of installation cost)CREDITSThis episode was made possible with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This show is produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me (Ayana), with help from Jenisha Shrestha. And many thanks to our guest Alex Blumberg. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

A tale of over-ups, poison, sludge, and the last bipartisan environmental issue. They Poisoned the World: Life and Death in the Age of Forever Chemicals by Mariah Blake is a true crime story on the scale of what the tobacco and fossil fuel industries have done to knowingly imperil our health and our futures. But this book also highlights what’s possible when unlikely advocates, regular folks, come together and unite for a common cause. In other words, there are heroes in this story too.The book is a landmark investigation that required years of her on-the-ground reporting and reviewing tens of thousands of documents. The topic is PFAS, substances that are more commonly called “forever chemicals.” Mariah's book tells the story of these incredibly dangerous substances and the lives they’ve impacted — from their genesis in the Manhattan Project, to becoming so ubiquitous that they are present in the blood of virtually every human being, and in the drinking water of about half the people in America.Mariah Blake is an incredible investigative journalist. She’s written for The New York Times, The Atlantic, Mother Jones, The New Republic, and other publications. She was a Murrey Marder Nieman Fellow in Watchdog Journalism at Harvard University. And I was truly honored that she asked me to be in conversation with her to launch her book tour.As Mariah explains, PFAS chemicals affect us all. And her reporting especially timely because just last week the Environmental Protection Agency announced that they plan to weaken restrictions for certain forever chemicals in our drinking water.CALLS TO ACTION:* Advocate for stricter standards and a class-wide ban on PFAS. Find a local organization working on this and join them. (Like Brunswick Area Citizens for a Safe Environment, some of whose members were in the live audience.) Track your state’s progress here.* Reduce your own PFAS exposure — use natural materials for cooking and storing food, filter drinking water (consider reverse osmosis, look for NSF certification).Mentioned in the episode:* Mariah’s book:They Poisoned the World: Life and Death in the Age of Forever Chemicals* Washington Post’s review of Mariah’s book: Chemical makers they the harm. It didn’t matter.* News: EPA will weaken rule curbing ‘forever chemicals’ in drinking water* News: Massive Brunswick PFAS spill is Maine’s largest ever firefighting foam contamination* Op-ed in Washington Post (coining the term ‘forever chemicals’): The EPA is trying to regulate 6 forever chemicals. Just 10,000 to go.* News: America’s Dairyland May Have a PFAS Problem* Story of Fred Stone: The curious case of tainted milk from a Maine dairy farm* News: Maine bans use of sewage sludge on farms to reduce risk of PFAS poisoning* News:Taco Bell to remove chemicals of concern from packaging* Overview of NSF certification* Research Article: Outside the Safe Operating Space of a New Planetary Boundary for Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances (PFAS)* Research Article: Historical Comparison of Perfluorooctanesulfonate, Perfluorooctanoate, and Other Fluorochemicals in Human BloodCREDITS: This podcast was made possible in part with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. It’s produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with help from Jenisha Shrestha. Thank you to This episode was taped in front of a live audience at SPACE Gallery in Portland, Maine for hosting this event. And many thanks to our guest Mariah Blake. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Today's guest, Sarah Stillman, is a Pulitzer and MacArthur genius award-winning journalist. She founded and leads the Investigative Reporting Lab at Yale, and she's been a staff writer at The New Yorker for about a decade. Sarah’s writing typically focuses on our immigration and justice systems, but increasingly (and in some part due to my nudges), she's also writing about climate change.Sarah's first piece about climate was an essay, “Like the Monarch,” she wrote for my first book, All We Can Save, an anthology I co-edited with the wonderful Dr. Katherine Wilkinson. And, fun fact, Sarah is also a very dear friend. During the pandemic we would have long telephone conversations while we were going on walks in the woods on opposite coasts. We’d talk about work and writing and climate change, and also dating and family and heartache — the whole spectrum of comedy of errors that is life. 🫠I am so excited to let you in to one of our meandering, deep dive conversations. Welcome to the inner circle, with the one and only Sarah Stillman.Sarah's Calls to Action:* Interview the people you love about what they love about nature that they want to defend* Find something to investigate. Document the extreme weather events that are happening to you and the causes — and cite that climate attribution science* Support local and national public media. Visit your local public library.Mentioned in the episode:* Sarah's articles: The Migrant Workers Who Follow Climate Disasters; When Climate Change and Xenophobia Collide; 'The Missing White Girl Syndrome': Disappeared Women and Media Activism.* Her full New Yorker archive and website* International Refugee Assistance Project* Investigative Reporting Lab at Yale* ProPublica’s investigative series on Sacrifice Zones: Mapping Cancer-Causing Industrial Air PollutionCREDITS: This podcast was made possible in part with the support of Future Being, a grantmaking and special projects studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. It’s produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me, with help from Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hey there Earthlings. 💛 We’re talking sustainability and fashion, again. It’s a major industry impacting the environment and shaping the cultural context within which we make climate decisions... and I may be overcompensating for having not given fashion a chapter in the What If We Get It Right? book.A few weeks ago, I shared here a conversation on Sustainable Fashion and the Art of Care with supermodel/artist Cameron Russell. And what better time to continue this discussion than in the wake of the 2025 Met Gala. Our guest this week is phenom Gabriela Hearst, a super-eco designer.I spoke with Gabi in her Manhattan studio, at a table she’s had for decades, on chairs she’d upcycled. We discussed her commitment to sustainability across her entire supply chain, how she turned iconic French fashion house Chloe into a B-corp while she was creative director there, how growing up on a ranch in Uruguay informed her worldview and approach to climate work, and her complete obsession with fusion power.GABI’S CALLS TO ACTION* Be kind. Reach for the balance of heart and mind.* Meditate — just close your eyes and breathe.* Buy less. Buy high quality items that will last.REFERENCES:* Gabriela Hearst at COP27 - Fusion: Clean Energy for All* Overview of B-Corp* Article on Designers for Democracy* Fossil fuels account for 82% of global energy mix.* More than 23 million people face severe hunger due to drought in Horn of Africa.CREDITS: Produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me, with help from assistant producer Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

This week, I’m chatting with Jainey Bavishi, an expert in climate adaptation and resilience. We cover everything from social aid and pleasure clubs, to recovering from climate disasters, civic infrastructure, why we should absolutely not privatize weather forecasts, and – of course! – what getting it right in coastal cities looks like, in New York City, New Orleans, and beyond. I’m so glad to be sharing this conversation with you, because local action matters so much right now.One in seven people in the U.S. live in coastal cities — that’s more than 47 million Americans. Plus, the U.S. coastal economy supports 54.6 million jobs and contributes $10 trillion to our total GDP. And this is certainly not a so-called "coastal elite" issue — poverty and unemployment rates are higher in coastal cities than the national average. Plus, coastal areas face the threats of sea level rise and storms made stronger and more damaging by climate change. Climate adaptation for coastal cities is what we work on at Urban Ocean Lab, the nonprofit policy think tank I co-founded, and where Jainey is an advisor. But Jainey and I first met back in 2011, when we both worked in Washington, DC in the policy office at the headquarters of NOAA, the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration. She’s since gone on to work in the Obama White House, served as the director of climate resiliency for the City of New York, and headed back to DC to be the deputy administrator for the entire federal agency of NOAA under the Biden Administration. Now, she is a Senior Climate Resilience Fellow at the University of Miami.JAINEY’s CALLS TO ACTION* Take care of yourselves and take care of your communities.* Invest in civic infrastructure, like mutual aid organizations.* Call your member of Congress and ask them to protect NOAA and defend the services it provides.REFERENCES* Urban Ocean Lab policy think tank for climate adaptation in coastal cities (and our Urban Ocean Lab Substack newsletter)* New York City’s East Side Coastal Resiliency Project* Rebuild By Design’s Big U Project* California’s $10M Bond Act (Proposition 4 Spending Plan)* University of Miami Climate Resilience Institute* NOAA Programs under attack:* Office for Oceanic and Atmospheric Research* National Estuarine Research Reserves* National Coastal Zone Management Program* Sea Grant Program* National Weather Service* In New York City, scientists project sea levels could rise up to six feet by 2100.* During Superstorm Sandy, although 85% of the wetlands in New York and New Jersey had already been destroyed by development, what little remained prevented $625 million of damage.CREDITS: Produced and edited by Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media and me, with help from Jenisha Shrestha and many thanks to our guest Jainey Bavishi. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

What the heck is going on in environmental law right now? Michael Burger, executive director of the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia University’s has some answers for us. In this episode, we talk federal climate funding, the billions of dollars that are at stake (frozen, impounded, and otherwise), and what’s going on with climate law at the international and local levels.Michael’s CALLS TO ACTION: (1) Don't despair. (2) Solutions require political support, so don’t run away from the politics. (3) Find resources that help inform your activities — like those at climate.law.columbia.edu.Bonus — Ayana’s CALL TO ACTION: Follow/rate/review 🌟 the show (I feel so dorky asking, but it legit matters) and tell your fellow Earth lovers to tune in.REFERENCES:Explainers on the Clean Air Act and the National Environmental Policy ActSabin Center for Climate Change LawKey resources from the Sabin Center: Climate Change Litigation Database, Climate Backtracker, and New York State Climate Law Tracker.International Court of Justice: Obligations of States in respect of Climate ChangeAnnouncement from Lee Zeldin (EPA Administrator) about the Trump Administration’s massive push to roll back environmental regulationsUrban Ocean Lab’s Climate Readiness Framework for Coastal CitiesCREDITS: Producer and editor Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media, associate producer Jenisha Shrestha, and executive produced by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

This episode, we're talking sustainable fashion and the simple joys of care and repair with supermodel, author, activist, and friend Cameron Russell. Also: why stats on the climate impacts of fashion are super sketchy.If you haven’t heard of Cameron, chances are you’ve seen her. As a model, she’s appeared on many magazine covers for Vogue and Elle, and on runways and billboards for brands like Prada, Calvin Klein, and Victoria’s Secret.But Cameron’s not only recognized for her modeling. She's been an activist and organizer her entire adult life – particularly on workers rights in the fashion industry and on climate. She co-founded Model Mafia, a network of hundreds of models to use their platforms to advocate for “a more equitable, just, sustainable industry and world."CALLS TO ACTION: 1. Do care work, and value the care work of others. 2. Share resources, be it clothing, food, or soccer cleats your kids grow out of.While you’re listening, please take a second to follow this podcast, rate it, leave a review 🌟, and tell your people to tune in. Support more climate content getting out into the world!REFERENCES: To learn more about Cameron’s work, head to cameronrussell.org. Video Cameron produced in 2009 to explain the name of climate group 350.org. Her 2012 viral TED Talk, “Looks aren’t everything. Believe me, I’m a model.” (Just re-watched; still so good.) Art show she co-curated in 2025 called The Art of Care. Cameron's poignant and expertly-crafted memoir, How to Make Herself Agreeable to Everyone.CREDITS: Produced and edited and Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media, with help with from Jenisha Shrestha.For podcast bonus content and my written musings on climate and culture, subscribe to the What If We Get It Right? newsletter. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Greetings, Earthlings! 🌏 Welcome to Season 2 of the What If We Get It Right? podcast.If you’re new here (hi!) let me quickly read you in: I wrote a book called What If We Get It Right?: Visions of Climate Futures (which became a NY Times Bestseller! 😮). The heart of that book is 20 interviews with people sharing what getting it right on climate could look like and how we can make those visions into reality.Of course, way more than 20 people have important insights for how we can get things more right on climate. Hence, a podcast to continue the conversations about solutions for creating a livable future on Planet Earth. Tada!In each episode I’ll interview an expert — from producers, to fashion designers, to lawyers, to policymakers, to investors to journalists, and more — who will drop some knowledge. 💎 These folks also happen to be my friends, so it’s a freaking delight to yap with them.Since we’ve gotta do more than just imagine getting it right (although that is a critical step), in every episode, there will be advice and calls to action. And jokes, there will be jokes.Our first guest is the reason there even is a season 2: Carri Twigg, my homie and co-founder of production company Culture House. She’s also worked in politics at all levels of government from super local to the Obama White House. We're diving in on how cultural change precedes policy change.By the end of this episode, you will want to hear more from Carri. Luckily, she’s got an incredible politics podcast, Twigg & Jenkins, and a great Substack newsletter, Carri Twigg's Cultural Capitol — subscribe!Carri's calls to Action 📣: (1) Clean up your algorithm. Apply some hygiene to your media consumption. (2) Be okay consuming less. Quench your desire to accumulate stuff. (3) Start a podcast. 🤣CREDITS: We have a new producer/editor for this season. Welcome the very talented Matthew Nelson/Stramash Media! And thank you to associate producer Jenisha Shrestha.MENTIONED: The Blue Green Alliance, Rewiring America, and their Electric Creatives pledge.For behind the scenes pics and more, subscribe to the What If We Get It Right? newsletter. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

My guest this episode is The Jean Flemma. Jean spent over two decades working on Capitol Hill as staff to members of Congress, making magic behind the scenes over and over again. She is an absolute wizard of ocean and climate policy and the politics of achieving policy change. Jean and I co-founded Urban Ocean Lab, a nonprofit think tank for the future of coastal cities. So you’ll hear a bit about that in this episode. Heaps of good change can happen at the city government level — adapting to climate impacts, helping communities become more resilient, and simply taking care of the people who live there.🎙️PODCAST UPDATE — That's a wrap on Season 1, and... there will be a season 2! Coming in hot in April. 🔥In the meantime, check out the Season 1 back catalog if you missed some episodes. 🥰 And before season 2 is fully-baked, we’d love to hear from you: What have you liked or disliked or found valuable or annoying in these first dozen episodes? What topics or guests would you be stoked for? Email us: [email protected]: Many thanks to Powell’s Books for hosting us for this event, and thank you as always to my chief of staff Jenisha Shrestha. Shoutout Nora Saks, who produced and edited every single episode of season one with me. It was an absolute delight to collaborate with her. Thank you, Nora.For behind-the-scenes pics from each episode, plus other musings from Ayana on climate and culture, subscribe to the What If We Get It Right? newsletter. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

In the last few months, the term “Green New Deal” has been popping up a lot again. And it’s the Trump administration bringing it up — as a boogeyman, as a foil for everything his crew fears about accelerating the clean energy transition.So I thought it would be a good time to discuss: What actually is the Green New Deal? How far have we gotten on implementing the concepts it includes? And why do those ideas still matter?My guest for this episode is Rhiana Gunn-Wright, one of the original architects of the Green New Deal. Recently, she was Director of Climate Policy at the Roosevelt Institute. Now, she is consulting and writing a book about the intersections among white supremacy, addiction, and climate change. Suffice it to say, I’ve been eagerly following her work since we met at policy workshop she organized, back in 2019.Note that this conversation was recorded back in October while I was on my book tour, and the political context has, well,… changed a little bit since then. But there's much more to this conversation than the Green New Deal. And her ideas about what shapes climate policy should take — from industry to employment to health care to democracy — are absolutely as relevant as ever.This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me, with recording assistance in Chicago from Troy Cruz. And big thank you to Semicolon Books for hosting us.p.s. Call your representatives! Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Near the end of my book tour, I found myself gazing up at those large concrete guard lions outside the New York Public Library, astounded to be entering for an event about my book.The occasion was all the more sweet because it was a family affair: I was in conversation with my cousin Steve Connell, whose incredible poem “This Living Earth” appears in my book (and which you get to hear him read in this episode!). We talked about how our family shaped us, the role of art and humor in the serious work of climate, and early inspirations.And the ultimate sweetness was that my 1st grade science teacher was in the audience, right in front. You’ll hear our warm reunion in the audio — thank you, thank you, Ms. Kristiansen. ❤️CREDITS: This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks, and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. Big thanks to my cousin Steve Connell, and to the New York Public Library for hosting us and for recording this audio. And a huge thank you, credit where it’s due, to all the wonderful teachers out there. You never know the ripples that you create in the world... Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

I was originally going to title this episode “Facts Matter,” but instead chose the 90s hiphop version of that sentiment, as I’m prone to do.Today, we are peeling back the curtain on how I achieved the maximum possible accuracy and precision in my book What If We Get It Right?: I hired a fact checker named James Gaines.James is a freelance science writer, journalist, and fact checker with a special focus on solutions journalism, which we love. He grew up in a cabin in the woods in Texas, and as the child of two librarians, loves a good footnote. He comes by it honestly: his pedigree is people who sweat the details.Tune in as we reveal which facts were the hardest to check, my aversion to the term “my truth,” and how we got to the bottom of things, together.And head to the newsletter for pics and to read the poem I read to close out this episode, Marge Piercy's "To Be Of Use." It’s one of my all-time favorites, and it's the last poem that appears in What If We Get It Right? You may notice me slow down to emphasize my favorite line: “The work of the world is common as mud.” Yes. Mostly unglamorous, often solitary, sometime tedious, and that’s just fine as long as it’s a contribution to the transformation we need.CREDITS: This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, recorded live at Elliot Bay Book Company in Seattle, with recording assistance from John O’Brien. Check out James’ website, jmgaines.com, to find out more about all the cool work that he’s doing. And as always, huge thanks to my chief of staff (and tour producer) Jenisha Shrestha.Thanks for listening 💛 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

I am home from my book tour (50 days!) and it feels soooo good. 😮‍💨 Towards the end of the tour, in Detroit, Michigan, I got the chance to sit down with adrienne maree brown. We’d been following each other’s work for years, and it was such a treat to gab and snack and joke in person.adrienne is a best-selling author, activist, facilitator, a songwriter, a poet, and doula. She also has a new book out, called Loving Corrections, which I have been delighting in. This is absolutely a moment to be lovingly correcting lots of things...The conversation and moderated by Orlando P. Bailey of Outlier Media, for a packed house. Sorry, Orlando, that we were utterly ungovernable! But this was just the kind of joyful, irreverent, soulful conversation I very much needed, and I hope that it will be what you need, in this moment.Fortitude and fragility. Our biracial families. Which of us has Beyoncé vibes and which Rhianna? What project we are scheming up together… We covered all the critical topics. Throw your head back and laugh with us.Credits: This conversation was hosted by Urban Consulate, supported by the Kresge Foundation. This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me, with recording help in Detroit from Afrochine. It is also being released on the podcast adrienne co-hosts with her sister, autumn brown, called How to Survive the End of the World. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Hi everyone. We recorded this episode before Election Day, when we had no idea what new version of the world this would reach you in. Wherever and however this finds you, I hope you’ll enjoy this sweet and lighthearted conversation with Dr. Katharine Wilkinson, the Georgia-native, social scientist, bestselling writer, strategist, teacher, and dear friend with whom I co-edited the All We Can Save anthology — which is kind of like the older sister to my new book What If We Get It Right? Katharine and I also co-founded The All We Can Save Project, which she now so elegantly and impactfully leads to “nurture deep, sustained, and courageous climate engagement.”We’re also sharing this episode of the What If We Get It Right? podcast on a show A Matter of Degrees, which Katharine co-hosts with another climate expert, Dr. Leah Stokes. If you haven’t listened yet, you totally should.Since this conversation was in Katharine’s hometown, I let her interview me, and she asked such great questions, as she does. The focus was on how my new book came to be, the questions it offers, and some of the answers that inspire me. A little behind the scenes scoop for ya. CREDITS: Thanks so much to Katharine, The All We Can Save Project, and the Carter Center. This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks, and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with production help in Atlanta from Frequency Media, and support from Jenisha Shrestha, my chief of staff and tour producer. And thank you for listening! Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Election Day is TOMORROW, y’all. 🫠 So I thought the best conversation to share with you right now would be one about some of the really important progress the Biden-Harris administration has made on ocean and climate policy. This progress is very much at risk if Trump and his fossil-fuel funded, climate-denying cronies end up back in the White House. This conversation took place in Washington, DC with two White House staffers, climate policy experts and dear friends of mine: Maggie Thomas, special assistant to President Biden for climate in the Office of Domestic Climate Policy, and Dr. Miriam Goldstein, director of ocean policy in the Council of Environmental Quality.One of the things I think doesn’t get talked about enough is who the next president will appoint to key positions like this. Personnel is policy, as the saying goes. It’s been such a thrill to cheer on Maggie and Miriam and watch from the outside, and to now share with you a bit of what’s been happening on the inside — from the Blue New Deal (aka how can we make sure that the ocean is included in federal climate policy) to the American Climate Corps to key lessons they’ve learned in the White House. It’s a wonky one. You’re welcome!Links to the Blue New Deal and Ocean Justice Strategy are in Urban Ocean Lab’s resource hub. And you can find all the work of the White House Climate Policy Office and Council of Environmental Quality at whitehouse.gov/cpo and whitehouse.gov/ceq.CREDITS: Thank you Maggie and Miriam. Thank you Politics and Prose bookstore for hosting us and Ellen Rolfes for recording the audio. Thank you people of DC for appreciating our nerdiest jokes — only there will Federal Register quips get a laugh! This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me. Thanks also to Jenisha Shrestha, my chief of staff and tour producer.Thank you so much for listening! As a parting gift, to help get you through election week, my Anti-Apocalypse Mixtape. 🎶 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

This episode is about the importance of home and community. It’s about the role of culture, of traditions, of protecting democracy, and how all of that is woven together in the context of the climate threats that we’re facing.This is a conversation with two incredible and grounded women: Colette Pichon Battle, attorney and co-founder of climate justice organization Taproot Earth, and Jade Begay, a Dine and Tesuque Pueblo climate policy expert and Indigenous rights strategist currently serving as the Native American engagement director for the Harris-Walz campaign.I interviewed Colette and Jade individually for my book, but I was eager to have a conversation with them together, as two heart-centered, sharply strategic leaders who are deeply rooted in the places where their families have lived for many generations – the bayous of Louisiana and the mesas of what is now called New Mexico.A big question on my mind: What does home mean in the context of the climate crisis?CREDITS: Thank you to Pioneer Works for hosting not only this event but the whole Science & Society event series, which was a key spark for my book. And thank you Site Santa Fe for hosting Jade and me there. This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me, with production help in Brooklyn from Bob Bellarue, and in Santa Fe from Julia Sclafani. Thank you, as always, to Jenisha Shrestha, my chief of staff and tour producer. And thank YOU for listening! Please share this episode and spread the word, and we’ll be back very soon. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Recorded at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco, for the Climate One radio show and podcast, this episode features journalist and environmental legend Bill McKibben, founder of Third Act, and tenacious environmental attorney, Abigail Dillen, president of Earthjustice. Both are interviewed in What If We Get It Right?, but we covered new ground here, together: fossils for fossil fuels, changes in the Supreme Court, the Environmental Justice For All Act, some lessons instilled by my parents, love politics, and so much more.CREDITS: This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks, and Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. Big thanks to Climate One and the Commonwealth Club, and, as always, thanks to my chief of staff and tour producer, Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

I’ve always been impressed with Stacey Abrams from afar, so when I got an invitation to be directly in conversation with her, I was thrilled. In addition to her political leadership, Abrams is also a small business owner, a New York Times best-selling author, and —something far fewer people know — a champion for clean energy and climate justice.In 2023, Abrams joined the team at Rewiring America as senior counsel. That’s a great nonprofit dedicated to electrifying our homes, businesses, and communities. If you want to ditch fossil fuels and upgrade to electric (and save money doing it!) their website has all the top tips.I knew the conversation (during Climate Week NYC) would be interesting, but I had not anticipated that it would also be utterly delightful. Enjoy!CREDITS: This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks, and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. And, as always, thanks to my chief of staff and tour producer, Jenisha Shrestha. Big thanks to Stacey Abrams and her team, and to the event’s sponsors: Grist, Rewiring America, Mother Jones, and the Tishman Environment and Design Center at the New School.  Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

The environmental movement has a voter turnout problem: 8 million environmental voters did not vote in the 2020 election. Eight MILLION! In a presidential election decided by thousands of votes. This 2024 election is similarly, stressfully close.On September 20th, at Bowdoin College (where I teach), I sat down with Whit Jones, founder and executive director of Lead Locally, and Nathaniel Stinnett, founder and executive director of Environmental Voter Project for a conversation on climate and voting. We got into it, got nerdy and specific, about: fixing this MASSIVE voter turnout problem, how climate voters can influence policy, election wins we should celebrate, and why local elections matter very, very much.It would be reckless to be on a book tour in September/October 2024 and not use every event to encourage people to #VoteClimate. So I’m taking Environmental Voter Project and Lead Locally on tour with me, at each stop registering volunteers to help with their worthy efforts. 30 days to go… join us!: getitright.earth/voteclimateThis episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me, Ayana, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Special thanks to Bowdoin college for hosting and producing the event. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT?: the podcast! Here, we'll continue exploring answers to the big (huge!) question “What if we get it right?”, beyond what’s in the (New York Times bestselling!!! 😮) book. Our vibe is to take climate seriously, but don't take yourself seriously. Irreverent, nerdy, soulful, goofy.I’m on a 7-week book tour 🫠 across the USA, and I’m taking you with me: 20 cities, 40 events, each one different. I’ll be in conversation with all sorts of fantastic folks, talking climate and policy and politics and culture. I’ll be sharing the best bits of that here. And perhaps I'll get to meet some of you in person along the tour. Details are here: getitright.earth/tour.This first episode features excerpts from the book launch Climate Variety Show, which I co-hosted with Jason Sudeikis at the Brooklyn Museum on September 17th. It featured: Roy Wood Jr., Wyatt Cenac, Dr. Kate Marvel, Perrin Ireland, Oshima Brothers, Nicole Cardoza, Hila the Earth, Jacqueline Woodson, Amber Tamblyn, Mamoudou N'Diaye, and nine of the people I interviewed in the book.It was such a hoot – enjoy! Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe