Breakfast Cereal is a podcast about the podcast cereal, featuring Katia Delgado, Matt Jackson, the Jar Sykes, and Manuel Lubinas. Each week, we'll get together for breakfast and discuss the previous episode of the podcast cereal. Hey, this is Matt from Breakfast Cereal. This week, we're gonna do something a little bit different since Cereal's podcast has gone to in every other week's schedule, because of all the information they're gathering, they're trying to do a fantastic job, and we completely appreciate that.
We're gonna do something during the off weeks where we'll deviate a little bit from the Cereal Podcast and talk about some other things that are entertaining for us. So this week, since the new episode comes out today of Cereal, but nobody's listened to it yet, we're going to have kind of an open table discussion with some of our friends about the Netflix docu-series making a murderer. If you haven't seen this series yet, we recommend it, it's been pretty entertaining. If you are upset about spoilers, we're going to talk about the entire series, so you probably wanna turn the podcast off now, but then again, this thing has been in the news for like 25 years, so that's up to you to get mad about what you wanna get mad about.
I don't care, but should be a lot of fun, so we hope you enjoy. I didn't hit the button. Sugar-free sweet alphabet cereal, delicious. Good job, Super Boy.
Matt from Matt, dude. Does that make sense without the preference that you just gave well, the button was not pushed? What button? The button.
The button. Don't push. The button. We're supposed to start recording at 830, that's what I just did.
All right. Yep, even though. Of course, Trusty Katya is here. Our friend, Hijar, not going to be here, she bailed for this second we can row.
So if her hair didn't look so dang cool, in my little cartoon drawing for our cover art, I would probably just erase her at this point. I'm so upset and so mad. She's- Would you say she's hanging by here? No, because nobody says that.
It's not a real thing to say. It is now? No, no. No.
What's that hanging by the hair? That's a big one. I was born or two. OK, yes.
And then Vidura has pistachios, Katya's tea. Manuel has appeared to stop by and see his friend, his lady friend at Starbucks this morning. Mary. Mary, that's where I go.
Yeah. Oh, you missed that. That's why you were on vacation. Yeah.
Manuel stops by Starbucks and talks to Mary. Is someone in the middle of the white snow? I don't think she cares because Mary's what? Like 60 or 70 or something?
That's right. Yeah. Someone, I'm starting 50 this year. I remember the three that come and roll.
I'm trying to stay in the top of the 50. Who is it? The gentleman's team? Oh, yeah.
I'm not a recomber. She's 60 something. Yes. That's insanity.
She looks fantastic. I think that she eats babies. Probably. Like Elizabeth Bathory probably faces in blood.
Yeah, sure. There's a Japanese movie called Dumplings. It's like three short films in one, but one of the short films is called Dumplings. Safe work.
No, no, I wouldn't watch it. I mean, I watch any work. It's really good. It's really in pain.
So obviously we are discussing making murder today since it's the off week for serial. However, the new podcast for serial is out today. So I listened to it about 40 minutes of it. So you're saying we're not going to be productive at work.
No, you should listen to it. Oh, man. Manuel, I think you are going to be super pumped by this one because they dig into a lot of the intelligence workers, the analysts that are trying to track it down. There's some really, really fun stuff going on.
I'm not saying no to these women. Yeah, it's probably going to require a couple of listens because they go pretty deep. But we've been discussing making murder around here. Oh, we got this idea to like, like, like a grown up.
Hey, special guest number one, Bailey. Hello, Bailey. Oh, I'm going to beep this. Okay.
Thank you for inviting me. You're very welcome. A lot of thoughts on murder. Just murder in general or just not.
I'm going to talk about this specific one today. Okay. In general. All right, we'll have the separate podcast called Bailey Murders.
Yeah. Bailey on murder. Bailey on murder. Sounds like a theme show.
It does. You want to be prepared? Yes. Nope.
Good job. Matt, you're all right. Okay. So we got a turn for the worse.
So Bailey, we'll just take it off with you. You're here. I know four years trying to get here, but she's in traffic. I know that's a lot of opinions.
She even wants to know who the office looks like Steven Avery. Oh, that's a good question. I'll take this question for later on in the podcast. But Bailey, let's kick it off with you.
What's your big highlight from this making a murder season? My big highlight. What's your favorite thing? Are you angry?
Are you frustrated? Are you disappointed? Are you disillusioned? I think I went through the full range of emotions.
Not diabetic. No. Not emotional didn't come up. But yeah, I think I went through the full range.
I was talking to my sister last night. She was saying she refuses to watch it because it sounds like you don't get her nightmares. It's not the kind of thing that gives you nightmares. I was like, no, it just makes me like, in my own judicial system.
It was actually an incredible judge. You're going to get that. It's pretty terrifying. I'm right.
Yeah. But it's not like a gruesome horror story. It's like there's one incident just all the mess happens after that. Yeah, I would say it's frustrating.
It made me ask a lot of questions about, you know, when you're supposed to presume someone innocent and give people the benefit of the death. I mean, that's what the foundation of our judicial system is based on, right? It's hard on our own. I don't agree.
Anyway, we think about it. It's a sense of a TV show, so I believe. Yeah. But it's an imperfect one.
It's funny. Yeah. I found it pretty interesting. First of all, when I watched it, I thought it would be very much like professionally done.
I found out that the quality of how they shot was, they put everything straight from the recording. They didn't try to like sugar coat it or anything. They put everything like his father actually talking to the camera. He was really passionate about it.
It didn't seem to be placed there. Like sometimes it happened to watch the series and you're looking at somebody and you know, they have prepared the line like 15 times before they actually did that shot. And that's the kind of thing I liked about it, that it was straight to the point where they were getting their actual opinion and just pushing it out there. They were really passionate.
But it was actually hard time to see like combing through the evidence for so many years and finally getting released and then going back again in the same system. Can we talk about Ken Krask? I think Ken Krask got it. I can see him doing a key.
The first time I saw him what was striking to me is how smug he was. And yes, you find out later that he treated for narcissistic disorders. And he said that when one of the interview, he says, yeah, I don't know if it was an article later on or if you said it during the show. He says, yeah, that's part of your job is to come in with a little bit of bravado and maybe he overdid it a little bit or something.
So that's the bad, yeah. But he says that's part of the gig. He says you're trying to get convictions. You find a story and you try to sell it the way you want to sell it.
He is the lawyer with a $350,000 house and he is the price. I know that's pretty hot. That is pretty hot. You can rock somebody and get look.
My house is worth $350, I guess that means something different in Wisconsin. I guess so. I don't think about the house in my last year. I could be this.
Don't start. Do you think? Yeah. You guys, for example, I was comparing the series versus Syrian in the sense that you want to see what the evidence is in both cases.
And I think the big difference with Syrian is one thing here, you have the images. You have the faces of the people. And my wife said, look at his face. You can see what he's lying to his name or the text of the author.
He really felt guilty, right? I forgot the name of the other one. But you just can't relate that in Syria in the audio only. So the images here make a big difference.
And also the fact that here you have two different events, right? One event, the 18 years in prison for a crime that is a total set up and then the connection with the next crime. And to me that was kind of an eye opener because you cannot look at one case without taking a look at the other one in a way. Yeah, that's true.
Let's get to the point and say, around the room we're the jurors, right? Originally there were seven that said we don't think he's guilty. And then there was one or two that decided and then there was the three that were from day one, he was guilty from the start that were trying to sway everyone else's opinion. So let's room here.
Yes, no. In this case, evidence seen as armchair attorney or juror. What do you, what's your verdict? No guilty.
All three counts. Well, fell in a possession of firearm. Yeah. That one is flipped in at the end there.
Yeah. Same as cop. Yeah. Same as cop.
Yeah. That is how I feel. You feel that he was there was not enough evidence to convict him of this murder. Not enough conclusive evidence.
Yeah. Okay. He had a shadow of it. Reasonable doubt.
Reasonable doubt. The shadow of it out craziness. We are humans and we can imagine a lot craziness. So you will make me, but it's a reasonable doubt.
There you go. That's key. I found myself watching the proceedings and I knew that he's still in jail and ran a snow in the field. And I found myself yelling at the screen saying how after seeing all this, how is it possible that they still convict them?
Is everybody in the Manatee Walk County a cousin with an IQ of 70? Hey, easy. Easy. I know.
I know. Some of us find that offensive. People make me respond. No, it's not.
How? Okay. Were you yelling at the screen at 1045 last night? Was that when you were doing this?
Very quietly. Yeah. Since you shot in Toronto. I was.
You're jumping. I was. Yes. C.
That was. That's not the case. He asked questions. Team Avery 3 counts.
Which one? Also why didn't they bring the couch in a sending order? Why did they start with murder? Once they read that he was guilty of that I was like, we don't have to get any right.
Okay. Um, what were the three counts? I forgot. Murdered.
Murdered. Just remembering a body or whatever mutilation of the body, and shall we make fire up? Yeah. The last one was a fire?
Yeah, just fire up. So far. Um, I don't think he just. I think he did.
I think he did. So you're saying guilty? Yeah. Yeah, I just can't figure out how.
I have a question on the back part. I'm not a question on the back part. Quite some algebra. So cool.
All right. Now we have that opinion. That's good. Now, so we discussed here Stevie and Avery's case a little bit.
And we all believe that, or half of us believe, not guilty based on evidence. The other two crazy people think, fine, do whatever. Now, Brendan Dasky. Oh, Brendan.
My heart just breaks over. Oh, Brendan. Dasky? Yes.
Where's then Stevie? Here he is, getting pestered by poise. And saying I didn't do it, I didn't see anything. And finally, they break him down and say, well, basically just confess.
And then, we'll help you out. I can finally watch WrestleMania and they'll leave me alone and I'll tell them what they want here. I was like oh by the way, where it helps you to be in the West. Yeah, that reminds me of the, have you guys seen September 5?
No. Well it's the same thing where it's miners being forced by police and then they get something they didn't do. Exactly. He's coming up to them that way.
No, he's a miner and he has to. And of course I'm watching this with my husband who is getting enraged over how illegal the proceedings are. So I found out through him that a miner should always have either a parent or guardian in an attorney person. Yeah, right.
So there were a lot of things that they did illegally. What was the deal with his attorney giving him permission to speak alone? Yeah, that first attorney they had was Sleeze. Have you seen the Yelp reviews on his law firm?
Oh, man. See, I'm glad she showed up. You guys have one star to five stars and the five stars are like no, this attorney is great if you want to go to jail for no reason. They're incredible.
That's fantastic. So on the topic of Brendan, I think probably all agreeing with it, not guilty all the way around. What's funny about his story, not funny I guess, but he actually did get the mutilation of a body verdict as a guilty. He did.
That was so strange. Which, Stephen, we didn't yet. So that just, man. How do you get to do that picture?
That was a very graphic illustration of what the crime scene probably was. The crime scene was zero DNA from this woman anywhere in that remote location. But not even on her car keys. No, she didn't have any on the car keys themselves.
Right. So that, I think, I... Just the fact that Len and prosecution had the same investigator? Yeah, they used the same guy.
And when they would show that footage, they would show that footage of the two guys just like, Oh, so, you know, changing, like, here, look, right, this is never a dude. Do you call this guy? Oh, like, yeah, go right along. They're opening the back door, hanging out at a great time.
And when I was watching Mike getting Brendan to confess, and signing his confession, I was like, well, where are they going with this? He's defensive, he's already, maybe they're looking to point out all the inconsistencies and say, no, he's just beating him. Just here, go. Merry Christmas.
I was really, really rooting for him. I believed in his defense team. Really? I'm having the right time.
So, tell us, actually, about your idea for Brendan. We're going to start a letter writing campaign to Brendan. Okay. First, we're going to, we need a final girlfriend.
Mike says, we. Us and his room? No, I'm not. I'm not just getting this.
Okay, I'll send your name on the letters. Alright, that's fine. That's fine. Don't end up.
Because he did say, at the end, when he's talking about how he didn't get to graduate and you don't have to have a girlfriend. Well, the second woman. Well, so we're going to find a girlfriend because apparently Stephen Avery can have more girlfriends than- More relationships than you guys. Yes, yes, he said more relationships while incarcerated than I caught in my entire life.
He's a nice person, I know. He does have a great person. I think so. I think it's a sign of a good person.
Just straight up. He's a nice person. He's a nice person. I'd spend it when he was whole.
Yeah. He's still a good person. But I think for Brandon, we can do a letter writing campaign, encourage him to get his degree, maybe even encourage him to- Can you go to law school? Yeah, I think so.
Yeah. Yes, we have to do that. Yes, defend himself. Go to law school.
I mean, you said it back up. We're going to start with like lower school. No, no, no. We're going to start with like lower school.
No, no, no. We're going to do the wrong people. Sorry, I jumped. I jumped.
Yeah, you went straight up to an eight-year program. Yeah, the law. I know. I know.
I know. I know. I know. You saw the bottom line there, but- Oh, I pulled out the covering line there?
Really? Yeah. I think that's good. Yeah, I think we can encourage him to pursue academic endeavors, starting with the study program, and then we get up to law school.
That's very ambitious. Who's willing to re-watch it and count the number of times that they say, yeah. There's a drinking game every time. No, they make some.
Everyone's dead. Everyone's dead. In that accent. Yeah.
I'm like, yeah, it's not the proper response that- So the article came out yesterday. talked about seven items that were either missing or downplayed in the documentary. One thing that I had seen Stephen Avery's Defense Attorney's discuss was this additional DNA evidence on Hallbox car. And it was from Sweat DNA, from like sweaty handprints on the car.
Is that coming out much of their DNA as well? I didn't know that. The funny thing that he was already sitting in the end before I said that was a funny thing. It's not blood, it's DNA, ran over DNA.
But he's found under the hood. From him? From him? From him?
From him? He was DNA was found under the hood. That's a weird thing. That's a stench.
He loves cars that much, maybe after he was found. He's found a rainbow and he's like, oh, I need to do hair filter. It was running a little rough when she drove up and I killed her. So, maybe we'll put a new engine in it.
It's great. Maybe that was his motive. Or maybe the prosecution not only has that vital blood, but also took like a rag and wiped his head and just like, planted that too. Maybe, yeah, stole his toothbrush.
Or maybe that's why he does it wear underwear because Link stole his one pair of underwear. It's Sunday wear. It's Sunday wear. Sunday wear.
What charge level direction? That's what I called that. Thanks, Watson. I think they now played according to this article is the cat fire.
So they said in that the series that I was just goofing with his friends and he accidentally threw the cat in the fire. Apparently he doused it with gasoline and it was a little bit more gruesome. Yeah, I feel worse. Is that horrible that I feel worse for the cat than I feel for Theresa?
Kind of. Yeah, I feel worse than the human. A person. What about the DNA?
Well, I got a cat. The cat would. Maybe because they've been in this horrible picture of Theresa B and changed to the bed and the torch was destroyed and then it was false picture. It was false picture.
Yes, maybe that's why. That's why I'm not going to know that that's not false. There's a zero DNA. They can find sweat DNA under the hood of a car but they can't find a single drop of DNA anywhere in the house of her.
And they cut her gut open and cut her throat open. That's why I was so close. And in somewhere they shot her in the head from apparently close range and no DNA. Don't be sure like all the blood when they kiss somebody in the room and then you actually can't call it out.
I see it out. It's worse. Yeah, next step. Yes.
So the next thing where there were more remains of Hallbock in the fire pit. Her tooth which was identified from dental records. But just one tooth? A single tooth.
A rivet from the jeans she was wearing. The day she went missing so obviously Stylus tells more about that actually. How did the know like a rivet? A little bit.
A little bit of a little thing. Oh, no. I didn't know where the front crease is. Crats are good friends.
Crats said it is. Oh, we've got it. The bones were intertwined with steel belts which were left over from the car tires that he turned in. Okay, that makes sense because he's confirmed that he was throwing tires and whatever.
It just smelled delicious by the way. Happy Halloween, a dead body and car tires and a cabinet. Anyway, he also suggested that there were hemobones found elsewhere that were never identified as Hallbocks. Just random.
So that's not as fun. The phone records were very interesting. They touched on it at one point where they were like these voicemails had disappeared and her brother was like, wow, the leader divorced. That guy.
That guy. That guy. That guy. That guy too late.
We don't have time to listen to that. Yes. I feel like Judge Willa has already knew the verdict. I agree with that.
Everybody's out there. I do like Brandon's little note. We think you're a great guy. I think you're a great guy.
So he's a good guy. I love him. I love him. I love him.
Talking about things that they didn't spend enough time on. The blood. Sorry, go ahead. I had read this article yet.
I was thinking. I'm so glad that you were talking about something. I'm great yet. Yeah, we did your research now.
I'm really not. That's a new wiki and newspaper. You should go work where I'm in a talk out. I'm sure.
It would be the most qualified person. We were speaking. That's a few. The blood in here in the trunk of Theresa's Court.
Uh-huh. Logically does make sense. What do you think? That's why I think he might have done it.
But everything about the story is just one of the things. I think he did. This is a friend of mine. Sorry.
First time. First time. I'm recording this on my one top. One of the things that I was saying.
So you know, it's legit. It's not usual. They said that none of the policemen from the county are actually going to be in the investigation, but two of those people were there. They found the key and that one dude had access from the date one of the first thing all the way through.
Then they say they say eight days. Eight a day. Wait, wait. There's no eyebrows.
He looked like the guy that's the oombas from the memorial. Kellet or it's. Orworth. So this one is fun.
Crass. Our good buddy Crass who is an expert on targeting someone says Avery targeted Hallbock. And on the morning of October 31st, he called out a Trader magazine and asked him to send That same girl who was here last time. And he gave a fake name and his sister's number to trick her into coming out.
How many photographers did the trigger and I didn't want to. In that area. I think I was going to see Stephanie. I recall that.
Avery called the daughter trader and said, send that same girl up to you last time. And apparently, earlier in the month when she had been there, Avery answered the door wearing only a towel. That's not surprising. That's not surprising.
That's not surprising. That's not surprising. Lucy's bathing. And she did not say that.
That's true. That's true. That's true. That's not surprising.
That's not surprising. That's not surprising. That's true. That's true.
That's not surprising. I didn't get in there. She said she wouldn't go back. That's according to grass, she said she wouldn't go back because she was scared of him.
But she did go back. Can you exactly what she was? Yeah. It does.
Hall box phone, camera, and handheld device were found 20 feet away from Avery's door and were burned in the barrel. They didn't say that the documentary and say that the contents of a purse were also found in the burn barrel. They discussed the burn barrel a little bit. They didn't say what was all in there.
The bullet from Avery's gun, they say it was Avery's gun. I still never saw any publics recording on the bullet that they found, whether they just spoke about the bullet. But they do say here that he was fired from Avery's rifle. But it was in police evidence locker since November 6.
So there's still that eight day window where they could have gone out, shot the gun, dumped it in all that blood that they absolutely and stuck it in there. It's kind of weird. That's from the movie and song, yeah. Yes it is.
Yeah, but you know, that's a Chris Nolley movie. Really underrated by song. Yeah, very underrated by Billy. Yeah, good stuff.
And then he planned the torture women, according to additional charges filed by the DA. That's a girlfriend. According to Kianse, who was in jail for a little bit. Yeah, he went after her.
The UI. Yeah, she came forward. So that he was not here. Jody?
Jody too. He's got a type. He's got a type. You're two Jody?
Jody the one that agrees. Yes. They don't want to. Yes.
The one that's one of the investigators was a Jody too, right? Oh, wow. The woman. The woman.
While serving a prison sentence for a rape he was later acquitted of, right? We do this. He planned the torture and killing of a young woman. He also bought leg irons and handcuffs three weeks before he allegedly killed Teresa Hovach.
Is it an alternate use for leg irons? Yes, there are three uses. One, you hang them from the ceiling and you do some inversion therapy. Okay.
Yeah, so that helps you. Allign your, allign your back and that kind of fun stuff. Helps with your circulation. The second option is torture, rape, murder, one.
That's there. Let's end up shooting the second one. And then I think the last one is with falconing. Yes.
Oh, right. Yeah. Oh, it's doing off. Oh, it's doing off.
What do you think they call it? Where you put the thing around? Yeah. You can just go home.
Yes. Yeah. You can go home depot. Spencer's gifts.
Probably hot topic has some, but they made it like Twilight version or whatever they're on right now. Anyway, I guess next week for the Corps members here, please listen to cereal. And then the week after that, maybe we'll look at the show that you talked about a moment to go. Or the HBO show called the one that was the Jinx.
What should I talk about? I don't know. Jinx. Oh, it's something like that's a documentary.
It's just a movie. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. We could also talk about the Dr.
Phil and Nancy Grace follow up. No. No. No.
I'm not submitting myself to that. Okay. No. No.
No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No.
No.