Alright guys, welcome back to episode 11. It looks like we finally made it into the double digits. So that's cool But double digits would be a 10 bro. I guess whatever.
I mean last week was episode X, right? You're gonna you're gonna bring the back the stabbing of the eye portion of it. I don't know are we Adam? You tell me I don't know man.
I can digitally do that. I mean unless I was right next to you I don't think there's much I can do but you know do me a favor and next time you find a sharp object right right in the eye Yeah, it's gonna have to be a really long night for whatever objects you're gonna stab me with Hey, we don't condone violence on this podcast. That was uh, you know, it's not a real life scenario Going back to the like syndication thing to where we're like, you can't copy or redistribute our podcast either Well, you said that yeah, um, I'm just saying we don't condone violence or lose behavior I see how it is. I see how it is Anyway, Jim, uh, but we haven't followed this week.
We do have some follow up. So as uh Mother nature continues to bear down pretty hard on us. Uh, we have some pretty the intense stuff happened over the past week You know, we have her came re-end here click in mexico. I mean, uh, what do you guys think?
What do you guys thought about that? Well, I mean, it's been crazy Yeah, um, there's there's a thing on reddit, you know where this is like nature is lit, you know, and uh, Right now nature just seems to be kind of running a rampage and um, I threw a link in the show notes which kind of has like hey Why are we seeing so such crazy, you know hurricanes? And we kind of touched on it, right? Like we've like neglected to really bring it up but um, but climate change, you know Know the earth getting warmer and how this was just kind of like the perfect storm for lack of a better term for storms this year where The surface of the water was warmer, you know causing all these, you know Other things to happen and wind currents and then the african monsoon season, you know, it's kind of like just the right time just the right place Um, and then mexico man like you talk about we're from california So we kind of know first quakes are or I think the people talk about it I think that people are like really afraid of but most people who grew up in california are kind of like yeah Yeah, you know like we don't get them very often but when we do, you know, they're pretty devastating Um, and the one in mexico I mean like you just look at some of the footage of like that when it's happening and these buildings that are just you know crumbling and falling apart It's it's pretty devastating and I had a professor a geology professional in college And uh, he was like the most laid-back surfer dude ever so like just he must have lived in san Diego his entire life Um, well not entirely because he told us he went all over the world, but I just remember in geology Like once you learned like kind of how earthquakes um how I how they're they're caused and just a sheer amount of force that All these mountains are kind of sitting on top of it's kind of kind of scary put you put you in your place for sure Absolutely.
Yeah, definitely it's it's definitely a humbling thing especially if you've never been through an earthquake, you know, I think everybody who kind of comes from other areas of the world every section of the world you have your own natural disaster And when you finally come and experience one you're kind of humbled by it because there's not a whole lot you can do Uh, and there's not a lot of preparation you can really do but when it happens it happens um, it I'm kind of thankful in these moments that I live in in a country where you know construction is and technology is far greater than it is You know in mexico it seems like where these people were when this happened and so we've just been very lucky But mother nature man she is relentless this year It's uh, it's pretty frightening to see I mean, I don't know if you guys heard too, but there were some there was like a 2.9 At 3.2 earthquake really close to Los Angeles as well. So there's some stuff shaken up here in northern california too Which is which is pretty frightening. Yeah, the problem is is like with the whole earthquake scale right like a 2.9 compared to a 7.1 Right even jumping from a 5 to a 7 is it's a really big jump. Um, correct me if i'm wrong Adam the earthquake scale is logarithmic I think Um, I couldn't correct you because I don't know if you're wrong or exponential.
I don't know I thought it wasn't you you were the one that took the geology class. I don't know That was a long time ago. It is logarithmic. Well, there you go Take it from the kid who's actually like paying attention as well.
I have to Not much choice anymore. Right. They told me I have to do it Yeah, so you know, I mean you were totally right Adam that that that 5.0 is very very very different than a 7.0 and you know Just as a three and a you know five feels very different. I mean, I Personally have only been through like a five maybe a low six nothing too too big But I say that late heartily because I mean Too too big for a five or six is not that bad But once you kind of cross that threshold of a high six into a seven You really are starting to risk life, you know in a lot of ways Yeah, so just big you know thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by these natural disasters and You know, hopefully we'll at least get a period, you know to kind of like prep ourselves and rebuild For the next thing gets but right now that's kind of like because that is relentless Yeah, I've always kind of thought I don't know about you guys But the what do you do?
You know like when this sort of thing happens in terms of an earthquake because I don't know my first like instinct is like Oh getting the car and drive away from the area that it happened at because maybe there will be power and water and You know stuff that won't all need but I tend to think the freeways will be kind of gridlocked And so there may not be a whole lot of driving you may just be kind of like hanging out at your house And you know, hopefully it's still standing if not you're gonna be hanging out in your backyard Well, where are you trying to go? What are you trying to do? Right? Like when something happens usually, you know, like At least my thing is you know, like get out of the house, right?
After everything happens because with a roof over your head that's going to fall on your head You know, you've been in an earthquake and they tell you know, like oh, you know get under door jams or like the parts of the The house that are kind of suited for not falling over But then yeah, get out right and then the problem you have with like rupture gas lines and everything kind of underground that you don't really see You don't really, you know, take into consideration, you know, that's a stuff you guys say away from So it's like get out of house and if you start feeling like yeah, okay, well now we gotta really leave, you know Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I might my first thought was like literally I could be the type of person I'd be like, all right try to keep a full tank of gas and just get in the car and drive As far away as I possibly can. I mean hours, you know, you're gonna outrun the earthquake We're not gonna outrun it in speed But you know, I mean at some point you get to an area where the gas lines are not ruptured And they have electricity still and you know that all that stuff is cell towers work And you know, there's there's food grocery still but at least for the first couple of days afterwards You gotta realize it's it's no different than any other natural disaster. There's gonna be no problems Maybe it's different because my fridge actually has food in it doesn't just have hot pockets, you know, like Am I actually coming out of the corner?
Okay, Adam So nice of you Adam so nice of you I'm just saying, you know, I'm a grown up with responsibilities and you know, like one of the things is making sure that you know Everyone gets fed and we have clean water your four mouths to feed in the fridge that doesn't have power is not gonna last that long Well, I didn't say it's all in the fridge. We have a pantry too. Come on. I mean you gotta prep ahead.
That's all I have to say Yeah, I mean, I mean so I can speak for myself I have about a couple gallons of water. I'd say like a two maybe two and a half gallons of water Which really isn't that much But I mean I think you're supposed to have like a liter of water per day is put your ass to have some There we go that that's something for us to do and follow up is like find a good evacuation, you know plan One that's you know, sanctioned by like the Red Cross or you know some organization that you know is more Well versed in how to prefer it is after than us three idiots are and then we'll put that link in the show You know what I have hot pocket, so I'm ready You have some hot pockets? Yeah, I know warm those up like I got all of them. I'm gonna use my hand I'm gonna rub them together really fast and you know, that'll be enough warm to get my hot pockets lava hot in the middle and So I thought you could avoid the lava pot, right?
I thought you could avoid the lava hotness in the in the hot pockets if you're warming in my hand, but lava pockets So kind of referring back to uh back to our last podcast You know budgeting has become kind of a kind of a new thing for us and it looks like you got some information for us on that So what you got going on? Yeah, so Adam mentioned something last week that he was using a service called you need a budget or wide nam And I had some time to speak to kind of check that out and I figured if it comes with Adam's endorsement It's got to be semi-good got to give it a decent passing grade So I checked it out and I I have to say it seems interesting interesting enough that I I signed up for now They've got a think he said last week 34 day free trial So I'm giving that a whirl and going through a couple their like webinar classes just to understand the service a little bit And uh, we'll see you're in a few weeks So it might give them my my money and see if it can save me some money in the long run But so far I'm impressed it seems like they have their stuff together and it surprisingly integrates with my bank It is not one of the big banks So I was kind of worried about that first and foremost because they use a smaller bank I know Adam uses the same bank so I figured it would but but it's it's not the biggest bank So I wasn't sure how that hoop would go but so far so good And uh, I may even have follow up to follow up in a in a few weeks here If I do decide to give them my money and jump in It'll be like the never ending follow up like we will always be coming back so this week I learned that I shouldn't actually be spending all this money on this or I shouldn't be you know Holding all this money in this account I should be putting it to work for me in these other places and I watched this other webinar where they said this so Good for you Lou get your finances back on track Yeah, you know finally taking some responsibility and initiative Yeah, you know, I'm doing what I can't hear This is once again the old man telling you like hey, don't say I told you so We all need an old man in our lives. I think it's what to do. I guess And I'll never you know, I'll never ask for for a thank you, but you know, you should thank you Thank you Well, don't thank me yet.
I mean I haven't done anything, you know, of worth yet Well, you got him online app and he's he's learning to put his money to work for him He's on the trial until he actually gives him money. I won't you know, I mean lose the kind of guy who like we'll sign up for every trial Imagine we'll see like you hold so many shiny for a little sign up for that Also, Adam just wants me to use his referral link. So there's that too Well, you know, you gotta you gotta you gotta give something to get something right like I was spending money to make money as they say I have to say I'm I'm pretty good about committing these days Adam to purchases So but I do spend probably way more money than I should on on certain categories Namely the app store alpha money at anything on the app store just to try it So it sounds like we also have some From kind of updates to it looks like we did a little bit more research in terms of what was available was not available for kindle and uh, Adam, what do you what do you got what do you got for us? Yeah, so last week I was in the heat of the moment kind of bashing kind of like what the heck man like of course They're gonna lock him into the ecosystem But come to find out that the format that they use is actually an open format It's just kind of older more simple format that was able to run on like really low hardware Um also found out that the kindle fire will actually read e-pumps So me being cheap, you know, and I wanted to pay whatever it was for the kindle fire Um, I could have got something that read e-pubs, right?
If I really wanted to to you know, go the way that amazon would without having to convert my files But um, there's a link in the show that's we're gonna put in there which is this comparison of all the e-book formats Which kind of gives you a right time of every single one and in there like oh, yeah, Moby's an open you know format based on this and this and even amazon's other format is based off of the movie format as well Which is also open they just change the serial number um scheme Um, and they even have the link to the kindle gem and kindle preview that we talked about last time So if I'm gonna just check wikipedia first, I would have been fine Wickey is very convenient I mean, but so when I was going to school, um, they said like you can only have a minimum or like a maximum one source from wikipedia Oh, I'm not allowed to have any yeah, okay, that's what I figured You know this is when I was in community college though, you know things are a little more lax there Yeah, they're like no None for you We actually did a social experiment when I was in school with wikipedia where we actually like defaced a wikipedia page Just to see how long it took to for someone to recognize it and it was like scary fast I want to say we changed something About there was a section of my college Uh, is like there there were a pdf age that talked about wildlife you could see on campus I know it sounds a little weird, but there was like birds and you know squirrels and god knows what else But anyway, there was a section where someone we added the word, um I think pandas like in the middle of this entire like paragraph just one word and it lasted like 35 seconds And so I don't know I don't understand why we can't take it as pretty well truth So, um, that's where your mistake was do you guys have like raccoons on campus by chance? Probably right? I don't know. I never saw one, but I would assume so Yeah, so raccoons are trash pandas.
So if you're supposed to trash panda, no one would have changed it Trash fandas that's pretty good. Yeah, it's in guardians of the galaxy One of the scenes where he calls rocket a trash panda um and reddit there's a subreddit for a trash panda Which is about a cute raccoon is doing cute trash panda stuff. No, I really like red panda Uh the culture thing Adam. I don't I don't really do culture.
Don't you remember? You don't read it. Is that what you're saying? Oh, no, I read it.
I just uh I read it in very specific categories Not trash panda. Definitely not you need to venture into the the the reddit sub reddit slash trash panda I will check that out this week. So mr. Leo, we got uh, we'll be gone in the docket this evening Uh, well this week, uh, we are gonna talk a little bit about advertising.
So, uh, this is obviously a contentious topic that I think we will all I don't know. We'll see. I have a a thought that we will probably all agree mostly in this area, but hey, that's why we're doing it Anyway, uh, so in the first place I guess we should start out with why advertising and and more importantly like the Well, why why is there advertising? So uh, youtube want to uh kind of lead us off and uh, I'll jump in here in a second absolutely so Advertising so why advertising?
Um, do we mean in terms of uh, why are we talking about it or why is there advertising in general? So why are we talking about it? Of all the things talking about why are we gonna talk about advertising? Advertising is really important.
I mean, it's You can either view it as a huge invasion of your privacy or you could do it as something as in terms of it's a good way for you to find product for Things that you want or may even improve your life. I mean, it just kind of depends on your under what viewpoint of it Um, and for me, there's there's a fulcrum for for everything. There's uh, going too far like what we talked about You know last time with target knowing too much about you and and uh knowing when you're pregnant before you are like that's that's pretty That's pretty personal and I think a little bit too far and then there's the there's kind of the more convenient advertising Um, where it's you know, I'm subjecting myself to advertising and I'm in control of how it's happening, right? So I think there's just kind of a good balance there between those two Yeah, I think with um with advertising and the reason like I wanted to talk about advertising Um was Because we talk about a lot about technology and a lot about culture and this is kind of one of the things where in that venn diagram is very much right in the middle Um advertising has has been around, you know before technology and kind of has had to evolve through different phases of technology I'm gonna get into like a brief history of advertising a little bit here But it's kind of interesting to see how this this piece of culture in particular and this you know, um, this tool has has kind of evolved in Outlived all of these different phases of technology and um kind of morphed and you know phase into what it is now So I think it's it's always been an interesting topic to me because of how long it's been around Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very interesting topic I mean that the main reason I was really excited to talk about this at all is because I think it's a kind of polarizing subject In terms of some people are really excited about it and other people are like, you know, it's it's not really my my thing and they're willing to You know pay for ads to go away for say, um, but you know, I think it is something that uh that Advertising is where the dollars are so of course it's it's gonna always be something that's gonna be around I think and uh it makes dollars and who's a wise old man once that told me that this world turns around for dollars So, uh, you know advertising is just uh pumping that uh, so I think it's here to stay for a while and Like I'm saying, it's just it's just gonna continue to morph but uh, I know I kind of divulged just a little bit there kind of my preference For ads.
I I sort of prefer to pay and not to see ads Uh, but I'm kind of curious just to open it up a little bit and ask you guys what your thoughts are are you uh, are you in the? I'm okay to uh pay for it or no ads or yes ads. What are your thoughts? For me personally, I uh, I really don't like being advertised to Um, it it just feels really invasive especially his things that I'm really not interested in Um, and it actually makes me averse to whatever is their advertising to me So it's kind of counterproductive for them, but it's productive for the app developer because they'll pay the money to get rid of the ads Um, I mean I'll go I go as far as not having any sort of cable in my room because I just hate being advertised too so much So like you know, for example on my xbox, you know, uh, you know I use that for most of our most of my most of my most of my media consumption Um, and I even don't like that they you know advertise their newest products to me and they're in their panels and stuff It's just it just comes in base of an over the top I don't know.
It just it just feels in the way of the content that I actually watch Um, and so I try to get advertisers away from me as much as I can Because I feel like we're just bombarded with advertisements all the time and sometimes they're effective sometimes I spend money Um, on the thing that they're advertising to me or I spend money on the thing that I don't want to have asked But I mean in different ways it is effective. I guess but um to me they feel really invasive Yeah, I have to say that I'm kind of in the same boat as jim where I understand why advertising is effective is because it's it's almost like It's a form of brainwashing right or it's a form of Tantilizing your senses to you, you know, make an impulse purchase or to be the deciding factor or to be that one extra push that you need to Buy a product or try a service or whatever it is. Um, but I think the concept of advertising which is to be in your face is Is very invasive and I personally am not a huge fan. Um, I think there are better ways Um for people to kind of get their message out there or appeal to a target audience in a way that's not invasive and As as as I right now, I am not a fan because of like I said how invasive they are Um, I'm kind of in the same boat where I I grew up as a kid, you know watching tv and you know commercials You know every five minutes whatever it was, you know, so five minutes of tv and seven is of commercials, you know, however they broke it out But um now, you know that I have kids and you know, we have our own consumption like james was mentioned with a media consumption Um, like we don't pay for cable and there's something really nice about not always having ads like shoved in your face Um, especially come like christmas time, right?
Like every kid knew exactly what they wanted to get because they would see it on the television, you know Or through whatever media over and over and over again and like I said it feels like brainwashing and very much like a movie lu has Seen um clap or corny, right? Like oh, yeah, yeah, it's all it feels like it feels like you're forced to look at the thing And they make it shiny and they make it amazing and the next time you go somewhere you see that thing All of these emotions are brought back up from that commercial and you want it and you can't really say why but you want it so I'm not a big fan of ads and we'll talk more about that in a little bit. I'm sure Yeah, I definitely have to agree. I mean, I'm definitely not a fan of them.
I there are some limited use cases We'll talk about that. I think i'm a little more okay with them, but let's uh, let's talk a little bit about sort of the domains you see Advertising in and so this is gonna and this sort of section of course is gonna encompass a lot because it's changed a lot over the years Um, I know I think was adam did you drop this link in the show notes? You want to you want to talk about this briefly Adam? Yeah, so we mentioned that advertising has been along for urban around I should say for a long time Um very very long time.
So um, I threw a link in the in the outline that will put in the show as well Which is kind of like a tldr too long didn't read lu for you. I know I know I know you know what tldr is okay good So the tldr it's uh, it's a history of advertising in 60 seconds and it was something that mashable brought out It just kind of shows you like how advertising has kind of gone, um through the recent recent years Um, so it's good right like because I mean it talks about you know commercials radios tv magazines billboards wall-to-wall So we'll talk about the barn a little bit, but I thought you know if you weren't up to you know par on your history Like this was a good, you know good way to get caught up in 60 seconds or less Awesome. Thank you for that. So I mean Just kind of starting old school and working towards new school Uh, there's the very traditional forms of advertising The and when we say traditional we're talking here like radio commercials magazines billboards Um, what do you guys think in terms of like effectiveness?
Was was that very effective or or as compared to what we have today? So I think with each one of these right like you can you can say like how effective were they and um I put that question There is a very vague just kind of starting point for us, but I think we all know that advertising is better On how focused it is right? So if you know that your product appeals to this demographic, you know between this age, you know This gender etc etc and you can target that audience you're as they're gonna be much more effective So in terms of like billboards, right billboards. I would say they're pretty effective because a lot of people are gonna see that right?
That's the easiest way to get eyes on to you know a product right or eyes on to whatever is How can you you know for lack of a better word distract everyone driving on the freeway every day? Um when you talk about like radio and tv and magazines usually those are more focused right? So they're more tailored to um the demographic that is reading in that magazine or watching that tv show etc etc But I think in terms of getting in front of a bunch of eyes like these traditional methods were very effective in terms of Just getting people to look and then influencing their decisions the next time they went right because you got to catch them in the right state Right like when you're driving you're distracted like you don't want to be thinking about driving So you're looking at anything to will distract you right um The red car that just impasse you you know the the dead trash band on the side of the road And the billboards right so I think those were effective Really bad for the trash bandit. I know right so now that I call it a trash bandit every time you see what you're like Look at that cute trash bandit.
You look at the records of the totally different now Oh, they're totally different out there just to come there just not even a raccoon They are trash bandit Trash bandit is our endangered right like like real pandas. I think no, I'm not really Maybe from uh, maybe from motorists You know, I don't know trash bandit is they're pretty smart at times right like they're a crafty Yeah, crafty trash bandit's I remember going off topic a little bit. I don't remember when I was a kid We uh, we went camping and these trash bandit got into our little like five gallon bucket and stole all of our food We were so mad. Oh Oh But i was new.
What was up? It was kind of adorable. So I was okay with it and I was well now you are right before you like stupid raccoons And all the trash bandits were just hungry. No four things.
Where's their mom? But yeah, I actually really have to agree with you on on, you know, terms of billboards especially because I know when I'm on a long drive I kind of I always look forward to looking at billboards Just because it's something to distract me from the the mundane dashing of the lines in the road if you will And so it's it's a nice it's a nice distraction from From what I am doing on there. Um, so yeah, I do uh, I actually I actually kind of enjoy the boards sometimes Pretty funny So I have to say I kind of miss traditional or old advertising Uh, I think it's it had sort of a little classier taste back then today. It's it's so interesting as it's time's going on It's it's like our We've like not been able to hold our attention as long and and the mediums that we use today are much shorter and compact And we're gonna talk about those a little bit But I kind of missed the old days when it was a little more abstract and uh, it was kind of classy and things were a little bit more polished and well-produced I feel uh, but I I definitely miss it, but I am a fan of no ads So if I didn't have to have them then I'd prefer to see none of them including billboards Yeah, absolutely Yeah, billboards are one of the things where I look at it.
I'm like this space could be used for something so much better or just not Either at all, right, I don't know Give me another cell tower there. I don't want one of those most fake pints or easy. No I mean they tried to conceal it. Well, you gotta think they put up all these fake pints Why don't they just put the cell towers like inside of the billboards?
They're already there It's like why do we have to build a fig tree too? Because then they would have to pay based on the average Have that was at place at the time. Let's say it's like a really hyper-file product They might have to pay more to you know rent that billboard for that time or like the billboard That's on you know the 91 in LA right where everyone drives by like to rent those cells Those are just astronomical compared to you know renting a billboard on the middle of you know nowhere's mill Yeah, but you don't pay anything to put a pine tree up in the middle of nowhere's bill Where you do pay a lot of money to put up and on the 91 too anyway I mean you gotta pay somebody for that land and it costs money You think that is it worth it Well, you would think that the the advertisers would would be kind of for it though I mean if the cell phone company was willing to build the infrastructure and then they just got to You know sort of advertise to it, you know or on it and and I don't know it seems like there would be a business deal to be made But yeah, here's an idea put a free Wi-Fi on each billboard, right? But they're all different so depending on where you are in gridlock traffic, right?
Oh, I can hop on you know the Coca-Cola Wi-Fi hotspot Yeah, you know when you get your ad for Coca-Cola You know once you go through this flash page for the captain network and then you're on the web and then you go up You know half a mile like oh no, I gotta switch over to the the internet one, you know So there was a city in southern California that did this uh riverside They they did like a whole city wide wireless network and it was so terrible I mean well granted I mean it's a public internet service So I wasn't expecting it to be great But I mean you couldn't browse anywhere and this was I'm not saying I was driving down the 91 trying to browse I understand that might not work But your phone would connect to the internet while you're on the 91 which was also a problem Because it couldn't keep the connections long enough So there was like nightmare problems trying to get that to work But I think they've since abandoned it thank god But you're totally right though, Adam like the uh There was a there was also a billboard in on the 405 at the 55 in Orange County, California That I remember some advertising agency uh talking about there was a business They were seeing they were getting roughly three million people a day to to look at that Because it was like right at the intersection of both three ways. I thought that was nuts Yeah, man. It's all about the uh how many eyes you can get Right, you see like the the place all their billboards, right? Where it's like a bunch of eyes going into a net You're like oh eye catching.
Oh I get it And it makes you feel smart for understanding it Right, but it's like you're driving by and if it's like a quick drive like oh what the heck was that all that? You kind of think about it more and then you know like 10 seconds ago. Oh, I get it. Oh man.
Turn around. I want to go see the billboard again Anyway, all right. Well moving on to the next domain. I guess we we we morphed into the uh the 90s here but uh on the web um so uh it obviously Evolution kind of takes over here and and things change in the landscape changes, but in terms of uh advertising on the web, what do you guys thoughts there in terms of what did it open and How is it helping us or not helping us?
I think like advertising on the web so we talked about you know the effectiveness and reaching you know a number of people um the early web Advertising not so much right like you were reaching towards a very small audience And it had to be very targeted, but it was tough to be targeted in a place where you weren't getting all of these all of this data Right you weren't getting a bunch of metrics back of you know who was looking at your ads and who was doing this and Modern web ads right like it's just such a shady situation right where They and we'll talk about this more they track you they try together as much information about where you are you know What browser you're using you know what time it is all that kind of stuff and they're just everywhere right um and now that you know the revenue model is Preveritizing is paper click and things like that There's all sorts of like shady things to get you to actually click on this or to click it for you um and like Auto play videos and all sorts of stuff so i'd say like advertising has has definitely gone gone downhill um with the web because if we compare it to It's the most closest cousin um which would be i would say like magazines right like magazines would be as close to the internet as you get right because you would You subscribe to the magazine or you would pick up a magazine like by choice you would go there purposely It wasn't something that you would just like stumble upon um when you open up a magazine Like sometimes you open to you know an ad but you can immediately you know go past it and there was a reasonable expectation When you open these things where these ads would be placed and now with the web i feel like you don't know Which site is going to have ads on the top on the bottom on the side auto play you know pop up ads whatever it's going to be And it feels like with a web it's been this constant battle uh between advertisers and the consumers the consumers saying like we don't like these Like these aren't working for me. I don't like these this isn't this isn't working average is about no We're getting more like we're getting more like we're getting this we're getting that it just feels like a push and pull um but i think it's gone downhill definitely with the web That's just my opinion. I really agree with that um However in terms of effectiveness um They have to see some kind of increase in effectiveness whether it's Ex-anada people have accidentally clicked on this ad because they were trying to click on something else wherever the case could be I don't know how big that margin is and how how that click turns into purchase But there seems to be a reason why they continue to do it personally. I think it's knowing I think it's in the way I think it takes away from the website.
It's irritating, you know, I mean and They're as Lewis saying earlier there needs to be some class that adds to it some kind of I don't know It needs to be more discreet in my opinion. Um, it'd be preferable if there was something I was looking for. I don't know whatever the case may be Um There's a reason why they make the ads the way they make the ads I'm sure that they do research spend a lot of money in terms of it's like how does this how do people respond to ads? And I think as uh the younger generation continues to use the internet more and become more comfortable with it And they're able to decipher like this is a good ad to click.
This is not a good ad to click. Just gonna give me an hour with a case b Um, it becomes more effective of turning those clicks into dollars And so regardless of if we like the ad or how it's presented to us I think might be immaterial what was actually valuable is it turning into dollars, right? And they must be seeing it turn into dollars somehow and so I guess in terms of that it is effective But in terms of you know kind of our generation it sounds like it's more of an irritant It kind of gets out of way to kind of pushes me away from whatever product you're trying to sell me But there is a demographic that exists where that does turn into a purchase Well, and we haven't talked about this yet But I think advertising on the web is like some of the cheapest advertising you can actually do right To put an ad in a magazine was expensive, right? Like you actually had to create a decent ad and you know sell it to this magazine You know, so they would put it in there or buy your way onto a page Whereas with the web, you know, I think that cost has gone down a lot So it's easier to shotgun yourself like onto a bunch of different places And be as intrusive as you can to try to get that click through as what you're saying, right?
Because maybe you're not going to you know, since you're not looking for this, you know, you're not necessarily like In a buying mode as you're going to this website If they can be more intrusive, you know and show you more things like you're saying How are they converting that to dollars? How are they getting that clicked into purchase? I'm assuming, you know, that's the most effective way for them to do is like hey, we can You know, put a bunch of ads out there if they're in your face and around you all the time, you know, we have a better chance of getting someone to click through Right, definitely. I mean, I think you know, one of the biggest things they add Or that the internet kind of brought to the table was granularity And so there's so to this ability to do much more targeted advertising and any kind of had that with magazines But it was still fairly broad Now you you really can just get really nitty gritty with who you're advertising to and that's thanks to you know, of course Google and you know, many other ad agencies can use like word targeting and such But but I really do still appreciate tasteful advertising and then one company comes to mind that I you know I heard about a few years ago and sadly I think they've shut down as the deck They were like an advertising company that had like They would only advertise in like the sidebar It wasn't like banner ads across the top of the page that were like neon flashing at you And it was just one simple ad on your page and a way to make kind of some money For whatever you were, you know, whether it was just reimbursement on a blog or whatever Just to cover cost and and it was really tasteful and I think if ads are tasteful and have flair, they're much more well received I know in general, that's why I I prefer Ads sometimes in in other mediums like podcast ads But they they just have flair that a lot of these other domains don't seem to have Yeah, and I think um It sounds like you only listen to like ATP and read during fireball, you know, talking about the deck like in this loving manner And I agree like they had tasteful ads, right?
But I feel like there's also other companies who do the same thing the deck was nice because they offered it as a platform But I think for an advertiser to reach people right like you see more people like kind of paving their own way, you know Taking like ATP as an example, right, you know, Marco Arment making, you know His own ad platform in his app, right? And we'll get to abs a little bit, right? But I think Advertisers need to be able to do this in a tasteful way, right? Because there is a way to make advertising effective and a pleasant experience, right?
Does that have the same click-through rate to dollar ratio or you know, like the percentage Jim was talking about? Who knows, right? But I guess the question now is We know why ads are not great, right? We've all kind of said like we've expressed some form of disdain towards Web advertising and when we're trying to make that better, right?
And I guess as a question I'm not asked about to be was how do you guys see them making that better? What would be the tasteful way to do this? I mean, for me, I think the biggest thing is that I really sort of hate when the ads get in the way of the content So when I go to read an article at Forbes and I have to disable adblock and there's this crazy You know overlay over the whole page and even when you do disable adblock There's still a banner at across the top and not down the side When it's when it's really blocking or overtaking the content that that's one. It's a problem for me If the ad is semi-tasteful blends in roughly with the site itself and is not you know, just completely You know distracting from the content you're trying to consume be it you know video or or text that is a big turn off For me.
So for me, that's the big thing if they can find that balance unhappy I think I think I can best answer that question in terms of an example So I used to really like YouTube like that was my place to be like that's where I really consumed a lot of content And I really enjoyed it and it was it was a really great platform Whatever and then and then they started advertising and at first the ads, okay I was fine whatever just a little banner in the video which I took away from at first it wasn't annoying And then they started making me Watch videos before I wanted to see the video I wanted to watch so it was like I would call my friends over and be like, can you come watch this on your video I saw and there's this two-minute video Of something that I don't care about and it's taken me away from that moment with my friends and we're all joking about the advertising How you're taking it? I mean, I have I have never won ever been like wow, I'm really glad I've watched that advertisement I'm so glad that this was presented to me and now I'm gonna go by the saying because it's such a great way to present this product to me I've never felt that way about an ad it is always felt invasive it was always been the way to think that I want to view YouTube for me is just a really great example of that and it just happens just so often on the internet like it Like I'll go and I'll be doing research for a paper And when I open up their link all of a sudden their whole website dims out to give me this really ugly square white box Of by this thing now for this discounted price which I know isn't actually a discounted price because there's probably a hundred thousand other people who just got the same stupid message And so it just it just gets in the way of the content that I want to see and that I'm actually in search of and so Again, you know, we were talking about earlier is is you know putting those things inside and allowing me to make the choice To view that ad I don't like being forced to see it or be a part of it Or with case maybe what I mean regardless even if it's something that I enjoy like give me give me the opportunity to say no I don't I don't want to see this. I'm here purely for research sake or whatever And I'm not and I'm not trying to bash people who make money making you know doing the ads Whatever like YouTube, you know, folks make a lot of money or whatever that they do with advertising. I'm fine I don't blame them.
It's just it's very in my face. I don't like it So Jim I have a question. I know you mentioned YouTube there. I kind of I'm curious Facebook has just recently started advertising I don't know if you're on Facebook very much, but if you've noticed how they advertise differently I think it's it's too very contrasting models both are advertising in video Very differently.
So facebook does this thing where you watch like 30 seconds of video and then they like insert like they stop your video And then it comes in a 12 or 15 second ad and then it resumes your video and then you watch another 30 or 45 seconds And then you get another ad and so I'm kind of curious do you prefer YouTube's model where it's more like hey Watch this ad for maybe 30 seconds, but now we'll give you like 15 minutes or would you I mean to me Facebook's way more annoying Yeah, that just sounds like a horrible idea or horrible experience I mean the execution is terrible Well, but that's also like that's how it was with like cartoons in no TV ads, right? Like it would it would roll for a little bit and then boom commercial and then it would roll again and then boom commercial, right? So it sounds like they're trying to take that into like a bite-sized experience for a video That's on Facebook, but anytime I can pre-roll an ad I'll do that and Jim I like the challenge here like you've never liked a YouTube ad. Do you remember the guy co ads on YouTube?
I think I go let's just talk about like I goes marketing Whoever they contract with for marketing to their godsends those those guys I will watch every guy go ad ever just for the last Yes, yes guy go ads are the best It's like my favorite one on YouTube was like you can't skip this ad because it's already over and then they go into this whole you know Little explanation, but it's a 15 second ad and it's just perfect It's like they don't effect that ads are crappy and you don't want to sit there and watch it But like you can't even skip this one because it's already over and I was like man I go like good on you, you know And that's a great example of a tasteful ad right like they if they appeal to the feeling of the consumer very well there Right and that's that's tasteful and that's fine. Well disclosure. I'm a geico customer, you know, I think that's great. They have great ads And here again like I'm not trying to say like all advertising is bad like like fucking propaganda and brick But whatever the case like whatever that's I get advertising normalized and it's not an escapable thing But and I agree with you and I and I appreciate what you bring to the table because that is an example of a tasteful ad I think that's a cool way to do advertising.
They really college consumer and their feelings towards it That's fine. It's really fine with me Yeah, and that was my whole thing is like how do we make this better? Like what are some good examples of that? And I think I go on you know as you start talking about YouTube like definitely can't like that's a good way to do it, right?
Like make it funny make it light And it's almost like they're not really preaching their products in most cases. They're not at all right They're just saying something funny and it was always jokes and it was always kind of just making fun of the situation But it was it had a format there was always a format like, you know, it was a white background, you know They're always gonna flash with the guy go logo and you knew what it was and they have a mask on you know That's been around forever. We've been talking about masks. You know like oh man But I think like you said tasteful I wouldn't even say likewise or tasteful, you know because I don't I don't view them in that way I just view them as not commercials, but just another funny video that I'm watching.
I was entertaining to you Yeah, it's the funny commercial before the funny video Yeah, and I think that's the most effective way like this is kind of sneaky, right? But if you can sneak it in so whatever you're doing And kind of make it as seamless as an experience as you can The less you take me away from the content I want to watch and this was your whole thing James like don't take me out of the moment Right because like because once you take me out of the moment I'm already, you know turned off right? I don't want whatever you're doing because I wanted to get to whatever it was But if they're they're tying into that moment or they're you know building up to that moment or working in conjunction with uh with what you're watching I think that's that's always been the best way out can be right So mentioning losing example the deck right like it was very small. It was integrated with the content It wasn't obtrusive and it usually had you know some relevance as to what you were looking at and that was always that was always nice It didn't take me out of the experience, but it didn't distract me enough from the other side I think it didn't take me out of the experience and related enough to where I might actually take through um that ad And for me, I mean, I mean the one thing I think advertisers could do that would win them huge brownie points for me Is just color matching the page.
I mean there's nothing more I hate than to see Like flashing neon yellow ads at the top of a page, you know that is trying to distract my eye You know if if i'm reading an article and it's against a white background and your ad is in you know white black or gray or maybe some You know neutral, you know deep navy tones or something, you know, this is not gonna be crazy I'm totally okay with that. It's when it starts to get you know, just sort of slimy than i'm not a fan Can we make it beige? Yeah, i'm fine with that like cp a tones. It's like is that what you want?
I want a dark mode, you know, like give me the dark mode ad please Yes, like check what time of day it is and then just render my page and you know Whatever's going to suit towards that time of day Like if it's like sunset make it all a nice tv tone, you know, like I think that'll work Like if it's midnight like dude like make that's make us a black dark mode Um, but yeah, like you said like more blending in I think that's a good way Um, I think we've kind of you know like outlined a good way or a couple ideas where ads could be much nicer Do you guys remember like flash ads though? God, yes Oh, man. Those are the best and either usually like games that you could play right like whack the monkey or whatever it was And i was like whack the monkey went a prize like I had no idea what that was There weren't even selling anything but that was a click through right because you know You whack the monkey play the game and the most game was over it take you to this website and boom There's their ad revenue. I personally can say I think we all fell for that at some point, you know, I mean I definitely Whack the monkey and then you know did that ad you know where I got forward to do some other site Oh, yeah, well, I mean to be honest like this was early days, right where you know We were all kids on the internet and yeah, you throw something shiny in front of our faces I'm like oh what I can play this game, you know, like shoot the target three times like sure Why not like throw this man and there was they game to where there was like no way to lose either Right like it's no matter what you did no matter when you clicked like it would still you know be able to say but uh Like talking about appealing to a target audience, but the fact that they were flash right like you look back on it now I was like you talk about them making like their own little programs or run on this website You had to have an extra plug in for just so they could get you to play this game and you click through advertising And like these have changed a lot right even in the last, you know five years Definitely definitely all right guys.
Well, let's uh, let's talk about kind of the most I think recent of ads Which is more like app advertising so stuff we see inside of apps and I think it's right to say apps are kind of everywhere now I don't know what you guys, but I'm just checking my running app count on my phone and and Adam knows I'm an app hoarder so I have uh currently 252 apps on my phone so, you know, I'm so proud of you for admitting that you're a hoarder I mean like we've come such a long way. I said app hoarder. I didn't say content. So we'll leave that discussion for another day Anyway, okay.
Well, you're still part of a partially order. I guess, you know, like I guess partial acknowledgement is a is a partial win I guess I'll take what I can get amen I'm carrying a very slim amount of apps giving comparison to my like 3000 that I have in my iTunes so anyway So what do you guys thoughts on in terms of like business models for for advertising for apps? I mean, there's of course sort of no ads you buy it you pay it up front There's free with ads and then there's this hybrid new approach which is kind of freemium So what are you guys thoughts? You know, it's actually kind of funny.
Um, the ads within apps Don't bother me as much as when I'm web browsing. I'm not I'm not sure why I think it's because I probably get some kind of enjoyment out of the Application before they hit me with an ad so like if I'm playing a game or whatever the case may be if when I lose I feel like if I punch that for losing is getting an ad so I'm kind of okay with it in a way Um, so I mean it's in it's cool with me and I don't know I kind of have a I kind of have a special place in my heart for average We're for app developers. So I'm more okay with paying for their Applications just because I there's a lot of work that goes to building an app So I'm a little bit more okay with with you know paying for their for their ad free version stuff like that because I'm contributing to them To connect the the applications that are rather than getting rid of the ads more so I don't know if that makes sense But I tend to be more okay with it. I don't know it just feels a little bit less invasive to me So here's the question because you said you're kind of okay with with ads Um, would you prefer that they offered you the app just at a cost with no ads at all?
Or are you appreciative the fact that they offer the the app to you with ads and a paid to remove option? I like that they offer a free version with ads so that I can see if if the content of the app is what I Is what I'm expecting so then I can make the decision to say yes I want to purchase your app or no thank you try it and you still got money from your average so everybody with Yeah, I guess this this goes into a discussion where there's no like free trial that they have for for apps right like Lou right now you're in a trial for YNAB right where you're basically getting to use the service full-fledged, you know No distractions. No nothing for a certain period of time and um Then after that time you can choose whether you want to give them your money And I think the app market right now is is very different in that aspect to where there's not really the free trial option unless it's a service based App which many of them are actually becoming is a subscription based service where hey You can try this app you know for x number days and then after that if you want to continue your subscription you can but um I always felt like the the freemium and the free with ads was was like a cop out right it was like It was to me it was a way that you couldn't market the app well enough yourself So you offered this hybrid version where hey like you can use my app it has these ads and then you can pay to get rid of them But I feel like the fact that that was built into the app this ad platform paying to remove it like That portion of code is still there and that component still there and they just felt dirty to me right like I don't I don't really like that. I would much rather pay up front and say like hey, you know what like I want to pay for this Like don't ever show me an ad because I will give you guys money and there's a lot of apps that you know I have on my phone where um I have paid for them and a lot of it was because I went to Their website or I looked at the video they had on their product page for the app Or I did some research on my own beforehand and that that was what I really enjoyed right that was always a fun process for me I never really liked them because none of the ads in any of these apps are relevant right like it's the same thing like oh here You know candy crush you know by candy crush or down a candy crush on this thing Um those were always the as you see in these these free apps offering ads They never felt targeted but I do appreciate developers and I would much rather just pay up up front So when I pay not to see ads like I'd rather Pay to never see the ads.
I don't want to pay to have the ads go away I just want to pay to never never see them in the first place I mean it's an interesting landscape. I mean in general I think I'm more a fan of no ads I'll just pay you know, whatever whatever the cost is I'll pay you to not see them and to never have had them But I sort of understand that we wouldn't have the selection of apps We have today if that was the case and so that's why these other models have kind of come about Whether it's you know frame yum to kind of offer that hybrid solution or just free with ads because there's a lot of apps that Arguably you get opened, you know, maybe 10 times a year max but Are open for 30 seconds or less and and if if I had to deal without them, I would you know, I mean people would And uh, and so I can understand why some of these are that's the way that they're kind of propped up and held in and they're kind of is this fourth New business model, which is kind of trial esca. It's it's sort of in-app purchase but free and and for only a couple weeks and then and then and I know Adam you're a big Omni focus fan. So this is this is a strategy.
I know that they're piloting and It's giving their users I think a chance to try stuff But then the app kind of turns into just like a dumb framework after that and doesn't really do a whole lot But then they have to pay for the in-app purchase. They really want it, which I think is More tasteful, I guess but it is going to be A challenge for them to convert those users into, you know, paid paid owners And uh, if they don't then the business doesn't survive Well, and I think part of this just kind of like talks about the the app marketplace right now, right? Is like why do these companies have to offer this free, you know option? Like why can't they justify or why can't they tell their story?
Which will convince you to pay them the money that you know, they're asking for this app and I think that kind of speaks a lot to The marketplace that's out there right now, right? Because the app kind of market exploded, right? Um, now we talk about like Lou has 252 apps on his phone and even more, you know in his purchase history So I mean we talk about just the massive amount of of content that's out there, right where It's very much like the only way you can survive in that market is to do these things, but I feel like Having to offer something free with ads It just it doesn't you know speak down on the developer for having to do this right because they have to make money They have to be able to get their app into the hands of people Um, and then once people use them they see the benefit But I think that just speaks to how apps are marketed and how how can we better tell that story to To have people drawn into an app To where they can offer it for the price they want to and not have to go through these subscription models or this in-app purchase, you know Or whatever it is to try to get people to at least put their foot in the door, right? Like that's the hardest part is like how do you get, you know, their foot in the door and get them to stay?
Um We talked about all these billboards and things like that is like they don't really have that for apps, right? Like you don't see a billboard on the side where like hey download this app or download this app or you don't see a commercial for You get our app here, you know, it's mainly based on services and um traditional like brick and mortar stores or online sites, right? So I think it'd be nice actually to see apps enter into that space where it's like hey, you know And you see this with like a lot of bloggers that review apps, right? Or you know, app developers will reach out to people I know Lou you said you were like on the beta vequins, right?
It's almost be evangelists for their app, right? And uh to kind of tell that story for them because it's hard to tell it on their own Um, I guess my my whole thing with apps is like I would rather pay for it I just think they need to find a better way to be able to tell their story of what problem they're going to solve for me And if they can convince me to do that all by it, right? And that's the hardest thing with advertising is like how do you in a certain amount of time or with a certain post or with whatever Create enough engagement and interaction to get that click through rate like jin's was saying Yeah, and I mean, I think it's really important to note that a lot of these advertisers we're talking about are Are dealing with you know, like single man shops and that they're not uh They're not you know, like some huge company with you know, multiple departments that are are able to handle this So When you're a developer that's wearing, you know, marketing's hat and then you gotta wear a counting sat and then you've got to write your code And you need to tell your story at the same time. It's it's tough and and so that's where Up to now these sort of other hybrid business models are what are kind of propping those people up I think because they can kind of get their dollars in revenue Via other ways and they don't have to tell the story as much And so it's created a richer ecosystem, but at the fault of the user in some ways, you know, the user's paying price Yeah, I can I can agree with that Cool.
Well at last we talked about this just briefly a little bit ago, but uh, there is the subject of podcast of course, uh kind of near and dear to our hearts, so uh, what are your thoughts on uh advertising in podcast and uh, How tasteful are those? I kind of I kind of enjoy them. I don't know if it's because they're not uh, they're not super long Um, and a lot of times it it has to do with what the podcast is actually about Um, and sometimes sometimes has nothing to do with what the podcast is about, um, and it's just something funny Um, and I know we we bring up this podcast group a lot, but you know ATP did, you know reviewing Toasters for a while, which was really funny But otherwise when they do the regular advertising it usually pertains to kind of techie stuff that their demographic is probably interested in doing anyway I mean I don't know. I mean as where you know, you use, you know, uh some of the same stuff they use and so it's it pertains to our interests And I think that that's an important part of it.
So I think you know, they have a really good uh flow in in terms of how they do, uh, uh, advertising Yeah, I think with podcasts the interesting thing with that whole medium is uh Podcasts are very targeted right there. They're for a very specific audience. Um, and the nice thing with that is It seems like they're able to find advertisers that cater to that audience And it's it's a very natural thing especially when you have someone speaking kind of freeform to kind of throw in like an ad read It's some people do it where it's just a plain old ad read but a lot of people will mix it into their content Right and we'll make it if there's multiple people talking it will be kind of a feedback group right? They'll all talk about it, uh, and they'll hit all the points on the ad right but the fact that they're talking about it means You're not taking out of the moment you're listening to the same person It's not like they cut over to like some other guy who's gonna read this ad to you Right, they're reading it.
Um, so I think podcasts have kind of found this in this great way, um, especially in a relationship with advertisers to kind of Serve up these ads in a way that most people are actually going to listen to and I mean I can tell you there are ads that I can skip through When I listen to podcasts right there's like okay boring blah blah blah skip, but sometimes It's either or I just you know, I'm kind of in the flow listening and the ad roll comes in It's like well, I've already listed 30 seconds. I might as well hear the rest of it out. Um, So I think the way that they've been able to kind of hold that together that and the fact that you know, the ad also plays at three times speed, you know, my listening speed, uh, it also just kind of flies by so I think podcasts have found a way to To taste really integrate ads into their content in all the ways that we've been talking about that we want right? We wanted to not be distracting We wanted to kind of match the form wanted to be relevant and it's kind of found that The question is that our advertisers happy with you know, the click through that they're getting and most of them, you know, do offer codes right?
So they can track where these things are coming from, um, but I'm curious even from an advertiser standpoint What are their expectations in terms of like, uh metrics that they want or engagement, you know, um, stats that they want? But I think podcasts have kind of found a nice little corner where they can serve their advertising and I hope it stays that way So I think it's interesting podcasts are one of those areas where it's at least advertising is very different It's not coming from the advertiser. It's not coming from the company It's coming from the hosts and we inherently build trust with that host because we're listening to them oftentimes weekly for sometimes hours on end And so it's it's very cool to kind of hear from the host who oftentimes gets sent, you know, something to try from the advertiser And then you're really kind of just hearing it from them and it's almost like a recommendation I mean there is usually some portion of it that is you know, kind of hit these points But it is it's very cool to kind of get their take and to realize that they actually do enjoy using that product themselves Which I think makes it all that more palatable to me And so a lot of times I would say probably 60 or 70 percent of the time like Adam I mean, I'm kind of cruising along at 2x beat and I just let it go It's not that big a deal and it's very interesting because it's kind of like a sore or a segment because they're a little longer too So there's there's usually context and color to them So it is pretty nice to to hear them in that medium and so far. I'm not the person that skips them So I'm pretty happy with them So I mean, I think we've pretty well covered the subject of the domains of where we're gonna find advertising But it's I think it's important to kind of talk about our next subject I think it's probably even more important than the subject of advertising itself But that's the subject of privacy with regard to advertising.
So in terms of privacy What do you guys think what are some some problems that could come up here and what are the what are the The main concerns you have? Well, we already know target notion pregnant. So who knows what you know web advertisers know about you? This is true.
This is true. So I know in the in the outline here, we talked a little bit about cookies JavaScript and this is really kind of deep into the the more the crux of everything But you know what what are your thoughts on on on on on these kind of things in terms of Especially cookies because I think this is one that gets overlooked a lot by a lot of people and they don't really know Everyone's like, oh, yeah, I just I clear those out. Don't I how do I empty those? I like how in the outline you put cookies dot dot dot no no no not those kind of cookies Like you thought that we would be confused.
Well, yeah better cracker. I love that you're cookies I don't even know better car may skitties, but um like chips a boy huge fan. Hey, man It's 1130 at night when we're recording this I could go for a hot cookie right now. That sounds so great Mrs.
Fields hot cookie fresh out the oven chocolate chip cookie. I'll be back in 20 minutes when my cookies are done 20 minutes to make cookies man like no prep work or anything. You just have like cookie dough like in the fridge next to the hot pockets Of course I do. Why would you not?
See you buy like the toll house like in like that weird awkward tube, you know with like the middle crincy No, no breaking break bro breaking break just break them up throw them on the pan and you're done like 15 minutes Are you talking like those sugar cookies like the Easter ones, you know with a no they make chocolate chip like that too No, no, we don't do sugar cookies No, but those aren't even good cookies man. Like that's not a good cookie Like if you want to make a cookie you gotta make a good cookie Especially if you're gonna have it like right out the oven all right. Okay, so we're talking about advertising So this can be relevant, but dude, I swear I know those cookies are fake But when they pull apart like a chocolate chip cookie and there's this a chocolate that she's like totally melted But still hanging together and then like slowly like as you're breaking the cookie away like it snaps and then oh I would ask wombs the last time you had one of those cookies a cookie and one of those cookies Actually, you know my wife made cookies probably a couple days ago the breaking bacon or the lake from scratch kind from scratch kind man Oh, you're gonna make cookies. You're gonna make cookies.
I don't consider making cookies throw them stuff on a pan It's okay. Well, I think you can get like 80 percent of the way there before something that costs like three dollars and is 15 minutes worth of work That's okay. That's the same thing as a hot pocket, right? Like I might as well just make a cow's-out, you know like go buy pizza dough and some cheese and pepperoni and tomato sauce and like make your own You're so so much so bougie.
You're so bougie Bougie as a guy who's like well, I didn't say what kind of like pizza sauce I get like I mean just putting ragu in the thing, you know Like no, you don't go for the rustic tomato blend. Yeah heirloom tomatoes like It's a boat art is in art is in pick tomatoes, you know, like only hand picks, you know from Italy or imported and Not me. Do you ship in your water and yeast too, so that you make your dough correctly? I'm a good Yeah, right make it the right way.
They actually debunked that remember, you know that right with the bagels thing in New York No, I don't know this. Oh, yeah So everyone was saying like oh, New York bagels are so much better because you know they uh it's the water in New York It's a harder tap water. So, you know like that's why the bagels are better and they did all these studies and you like using it It's like no, it's because they leave the dough out or some other prep thing that they do that makes New York bagels so much better than other bagels But it's not a tap-lum. No, that myth was you don't tell them to go.
Um, anyway, I'm really hungry for a cookie now But no, no not those kind of cookies. So in terms of cookies for advertising, right? I think this is cookies used to be used to you know, like keep your place on a site, right? Like keep what you were doing As you as you visit other sites and as you came back It was a persistent piece of information for that site and now cookies have kind of especially with advertising They've kind of evolved into this thing where they'll track what you look at what you click on, you know, all these other things and uh It is that useful in this in this sense?
Um, because in my case I think it's kind of creepy and I mean some of the worst offenders right are shopping websites you go to where you look at something once And I swear it will follow you until you die, right? The next site you go to was like hey, you were looking at this cable, you know, it's like a two foot USB cable You were looking at that you're interested in buying it still and I'm like, what happened? I'm not even on that site anymore. Why is this here, right?
So cookies guys in terms of privacy, are they useful? Like do you guys find that feature nice or is it kind of creepy that you know, what you looked at 20 minutes ago was showing up again I think it can be useful useful, but it is in the majority of the time today not used in a useful manner to the user Yeah, I mean, it's it's creepy like it's And there's no way around it like it's absolutely creepy That that the shopping website have all this information on me. I'm like, oh, this is kind of what I shop for like don't worry about it Um, I mean Getting away from the idea that being creepy and just kind of on the useful side it And just purely looking at it from that context. It's useful up until two weeks later when I I have fully decided like i'm not going to buy this product Please go and ask me about it.
Um, I'm not gonna buy it. I don't care about anymore. It's out of my mind. Um, and so It's useful for maybe like a couple of days But I'm pretty well-decided, you know, if I didn't buy it then when I was looking for it It's very unlikely that unless I put it in like my my wish list folder It's very unlikely that I'm gonna follow through with that purchase And so here again, it just comes back to the annoyance and that invasive thing where I was like, yes I had an interest in purchasing this thing.
You just no longer interest so please leave me alone about it And and then it gets creepy, you know, and so and so yeah, I think it's pretty So so the other thing is and I think the reason we all kind of feel as creepy is because it feels like someone's watching you when you didn't Nothing to be watched right and um, a lot of them will come up and they'll say like, hey We use cookies for tracking, right? Like sometimes there'll even be like a just a pop up that will come up or just an alert that says hey FYI like we use cookies for tracking, you know, blah blah blah or it's like you have their party cookies disabled, you know We use these for tracking yada yada yada, right? So I think a lot of them are actually like trying to bring up or surface like the reason they're using these but the ones that don't Where you're just kind of like I go to the site and you know, this other site and like wait a minute I was looking at that like he said two weeks ago like I don't want this anymore. Why is this here?
And I think for a lot of people um, and maybe this is just us right? Maybe this is like the tech people who go there and they say whoa whoa whoa, how do they know that right? Whereas the average consumer might be like, okay, yeah, I was looking at that kind of stuff Oh, it's nice. So they're kind of tailoring this to my experience, right?
Um, and that's where we can talk about like personal like shopping and how this is actually a method of advertising or You know, um kind of a tool that they're using to kind of move along with the web, right? Because like you talk about a traditional brick and mortar store you walk in right like The only form of like personal like shopping experience you're going to get is if you know the shopkeeper and they recognize you and they know you They say, oh, hey, you know what? I know you were looking at this last week. I actually got a brand new thing in like I think you'll like it.
I'll be interested, right? This is kind of taking that to everyone with a with a robotics side to it That's the only time I could think of it actually being useful is it was a real person actually telling me this stuff But I think it's interesting to see I know that the thing that's the creepiest to me is it's not that sometimes, you know, I understand if I'm at my computer And I look at something and they use go these and you're at some other website You see that advertised to say this, you know, USB cable example The creepier part to me is when I transition devices and then I have that same ad appear. Oh, that is the worst Yeah Talk about a big brother thing right like someone's watching me like where's the call coming? It's coming from inside the house What a great point.
I didn't think about that. But yes, you were right. That is that's not okay Yeah, it is it is just utterly creepy. I mean I can speak for like I totally know I've I've looked at something online And then I've like browse through my instagram feed and there it is and I'm like that is just so crazy I'm on my phone or something, you know, and that is just well I don't know that that is that just makes my blood boil in some way But I guess here's the question right is like is this just us like Is it just because we are understanding or are trying to understand the way that they are accomplishing this and how shady that kind of feels to us Because we know that we're on a different device like we're on a different site We're in a different location like all of this stuff is persisting through my entire experience Like that doesn't feel right to me Do you think most people will even bat an eye at that or is it just because we're more versus I know this topic comes up a lot Right, right where we care about this but does everyone else?
I don't think everyone else even realizes it I honestly don't I mean they just kind of scroll past and go that's funny That's the same cable or whatever But I don't think most people realize it and I think it is something that the circles we run in We are more aware and understand why this is happening in first place and it groups us out Yep, absolutely. Um, I almost wonder if the folks who have created this Sort of thing to happen, you know, I mean obviously, you know in politics They say yes, we can internet providers can track or code views and whatever case Maybe but I just wonder like the people who are using the technology and they see it happening in front of them Like they're searching something on Amazon on their computer and on their own Instagram and see the thing they were searching for I wonder if that bothers them as like a as like a person It's like, you know, I mean the person who created the television was really disappointed with the television turned into So I wonder if these people who created this avenue but the consumer I just wonder if they're thinking similar thoughts about that or do they not care because they're making money off of it? I mean to the average person. I think you make a really good point.
We don't think they really think about it It's just kind of like oh, it's so funny. That's the coincidence. Uh-huh. I don't think about it and they just move on with their life But you know for folks like the three of us who are kind of more intimately Involved in our technology the way that it all works.
Yeah, we we noticed it and it draw it It only takes away from what we were doing originally and draws our attention So I'm kind of curious to see how the people who created these avenues feel about it now You know it irritates them. Yeah, definitely. Well, this uh, this next subject is one I don't have much familiarity with but uh JavaScript injection. I know I've heard of this But I don't know too much about it.
Uh, I think Adam you dropped this in the show notes You want to uh put a little color to this for me? Yeah, and to be honest, I'm not an expert in this field either But um, I think we talked about you know, like we talked in terms of privacy We talked about cookies which have been around for a while right in terms of tracking, you know What you do this and that but I think JavaScript is also kind of playing a new role in that where ads are actually injecting JavaScript into pages Where that JavaScript will go and it will run and do do different things right and they have like cross-site scripting Which is a where that's tossed around a lot of our phrases toss a lot around these days. Um And it's just another way that it feels like advertisers are using This technology in a way that that just feels feels odd it feels shady it wasn't intended for this purpose and to Jim's points like hey like Person who invented JavaScript and you know embedded you know running code on web pages Like do you ever think that it would be used for advertisers to get to like find out where you were what you were looking at or what you were doing at this Even time, right? Um, because a lot of JavaScript will like it'll see how far you hover on a page, right?
Like or when you go mouse over their ad it's like did you hover here for four seconds and click or did you hover here for three seconds and then move to the right? Where did you end up? You know hovering your cursor? It gets into a lot more stuff like that to where the technology that was used to like enhance web pages because The internet was actually supposed to be something really really simple, you know It was just supposed to serve up web pages for um Professors working on their their masters degrees to like easily share research papers with each other Um, and it's kind of evolved into this this giant, you know internet business, you know, it feels like what it is now Um, but JavaScript running on pages has just given these advertisers more ways to See how their ads are being viewed and we talked about this like how do you measure engagement?
How do you measure click-through rate how do you measure whether you're at as effective or not? And I think a lot of the JavaScript Um Which is doing what I feel is shady stuff and just becomes more bloat on a webpage, right? Like you talk about loading a webpage which is a bunch of images and a bunch of text and then oh, what's this, you know 10 meg JavaScript file that's also getting loaded Um and we'll talk about like plugins and stuff to kind of like increase your visibility to this But you talk about these, you know, just adding more bloat to a webpage to give advertisers more tracking and to me that also just kind of Falls in the lines of shady. Yeah, I mean, I'd have to agree I think uh most of this is shady in this privacy area and so whether it's cookies now they've involved or evolved uh or uh Or you know this JavaScript injection that you're talking about and cross-site scripting It's it's all a little uh education stuff that I uh, I definitely kind of think of somebody kind of hacking it all together to you know Kind of reverse engineer the mind of uh someone who would be kind of almost like a hacker And so it just doesn't seem very ethical and moral at the end of the day Agree.
Absolutely. Absolutely Well, I mean sort of on the lines of of this is you know One of the things that that I dropped in here is that you know, basically if you're not paying for a service today you're kind of the product and so You know, there are several companies that this is this rings really true with but um, namely Google is probably the biggest one that all of us know and we all I think it's safe to say we all use Google in some way shape or form And Amazon is is another one that is you know, these these companies use our data every day and I don't know about you guys But I uh for a long time I kind of abstained from it and to a certain degree I use some of their services today Uh, but I'm kind of curious, you know what you guys just thoughts are on sort of free, but you were the product No one's saying to this question. Um, I think we talked about it last time Um, where I think I actually mentioned like you are the currency, you know to this company Um, or yeah, you are the product right because you're you're never getting something for free Nothing is ever free right and that's I think the phrase against on around um And in places like google, you know where it's not They're serving you content, but the more content they serve you the more they know about you and the question comes down to you The more they know about you You're now a product to them But for what what are they doing with their knowledge of you and the answer is in most cases, right? Like they're selling at other companies or they're giving that to someone or they're using that to drive this other thing this other business that they run that does generate revenue and I think that was a you know, a big sticking point for google for a while, right?
Like it's like, hey, you know, google's not making money It's like, well, we don't care for losing money. We don't care Because in the big scheme of things right like the more we know the more we can build product x, you know product y And the more that this business even if we're taking a loss on it Since we're learning so much about you know, these users we can use that to fund everything else So nothing's even away from free, right? Um, and yeah, you are the product in that sense where hey, it's great if I use the service But in those fine lines I say, hey by using the service you agree that you were giving us all this information and that we can use it for whatever business purpose we want to right um And that's you know, I think kind of like to your point like like you said, if you're not paying for it, you are the product I wonder what if this is if this is like really kind of Like an american culture thing If this is something that you know, we really deal with specifically compared to other countries because you know, we have this whole free open market For businesses to make as much money as possible. That is that is the goal of every business in america, right?
And so if they're able to take our privacy and sell it between each other That's the way for them to make money and the way for them to advertise to us, right? And so it just makes me you makes me wonder if this is american specific or if this is like a global issue That everybody deals with I don't know if you guys know anything about that or not, but it seems like it feels kind of american specific Just because of the way that we deal with money Yeah, I think a lot of other countries have um a very privacy centric, you know, view to everything to where it's like privacy first, right? Like you have your individual rights and companies trying to profit off that that's it's not part of their Their fundamentals, right? It's not what their their culture or their country is based on and where yes capitalism in america, right?
Like how can you make the As much money as fast as you can, right? So I think the only difference is that these companies a lot of them operate worldwide Um, and they try to do kind of the same things like they want to be able to use the same Method of revenue or the same income that they would get all these other countries by you know using the same products But what you'll see is like a lot of places there are a lot of companies as they go out branch out of the place They have to tailor their product because of these you know laws and regulations that are in place for tracking individuals So I do think it's a bigger problem for the american consumer Um just based on the fact that I don't think we've ever really put privacy as as a forefront in our In our legislation or in our agenda, right? It's always been an afterthought. Um, whereas other countries, you know, it's it's always been kind of At the table, right?
It's always been a topic of consideration So I I think to your point Jim like I think the u.s. Definitely has it worse because we've never really Put as much thought as other countries have into this Which is it's just so frustrating to listen to politicians talk about, you know American rights and you know the first amendment and you know, we have a supposedly supposedly all this protection over privacy or whatever And that's just blatantly not true. It's absolutely not true when google amazon, whoever else buys and sell You might click bait essentially, you know, we're like like on every day and whatever the case may be and all these other companies get money Off of me that way or if they're not making money off of me then they're making money off of other people is I don't know. Yeah, I mean I heard something a couple years ago that it was kind of staggering to me And this was that google knows roughly 1500 things about each individual american And I thought that was that was just kind of scary and I mean they went into you know Sort of they know you know the height the rough weight the the hair color the eye color But then there's just you know all these other things, you know the college you attended the you know And all this stuff is fairly easy to get but then they also know these deeper things like what did you search for?
And what are your preferences in terms of you know all this sort of intricate stuff and and it was just crazy that they had all that information And and that's when you start to realize I really wonder if we could sort of Have access to the personal information they did know about us how much we would use these services but I think that kind of dovetails into the next section which is Blocking in terms of you know, what do you guys think about like blocking ads? Do you guys do it? Do you uh, you think it's something that you We should have more of or should ads just be more respectable? I personally block ads only because In all the all the things we mentioned and I block it, you know, we're clear blocking ads on the web So, um, yeah, I block ads because I feel like everything that that is doing is a it's not targeted towards me and b It's doing some shady stuff to track me the whole time and I just don't feel comfortable with it So yeah, like I've used Third-party programs to block ads and you can even see companies now like building that into their platform like hey, you know companies who care about privacy Are like hey, let's you know, put this into our core technology, right?
Um, we don't want people looking at this, right? You look at things like uh, if you guys ever use like tails which is like an open source, um Disturbable index which basically runs it's like it's like the most secure one, right? It's like the one I think like Edward Snowden vouch for something if I remember correctly Um, but yeah, it uses Tor and it uses all these ways to like make sure that whatever you do on there's private Right and there are methods out there to basically keep your your self-private Um, but they're they're very like inconvenient to use right? So I think ad blockers is an easy way for me to say like hey, you know what?
I don't want to see all this stuff like I'd rather just get it out of the way and that means that these advertising companies are losing out because I'm not you know using their content, but like Louie even said right like you go to some website like Forbes, right? They're like hey, you have an ad blocker turned on uh, we're not going to show you this because that's how we make money, you know And kind of we'll get into that a little later, but I use an ad blocker personally I do everything I can do to get away from that Um, you know everything from the content that I choose to have in my entertainment space to How do I eliminate it from the you know, the the sites that I brought? Um, I mean here again, it just comes back to you know that the tastefulness of it I just I just don't want to be interested I mean and the other thing there is too is like a lot of these tracks will show you like how many you know things How many tracker sites or how many ads are being blocked on the page and I can tell you if that number gets high enough like I'll just start not visiting that site anymore if it doesn't have anything really to offer me or if it's not I occasionally go to And I can find that information somewhere else in a place that doesn't give me 20 different ads like I'll go there So in a lot of ways blockers have also kind of surfaced sites that I no longer will trust or I will not will no longer visit Unless I have to because of their obsessive use of advertising I know Adam so we talked a couple links in the show notes here. I personally use one blocker Um, but I know I think you dropped in ghostry and I've definitely heard of that when I've used it in the past that I remember it showed how many Active blockers that were and I could remember going to some sites and seeing like numbers in the 50s Of like, you know things that it was blocking and that that's just insane to me And I totally understand where you're coming from that, you know, when you get numbers that high you just kind of get a distasteful Um, you know feeling about that website and you're just you're just okay.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna visit this, you know, your content is not worth worth that to me Well, it's like you said, right like if we knew all the information that let's say google had about us Right like you said they know 1500 things about the average americans like if I saw those 1500 things that they knew about Let's say me would I still use their service the answer is probably like well, I'm a little creeped out now Um is the value I'm getting from this really worth the information that I've given right and I think These blockers have made that a little more transparent to us for especially certain websites like we're talking about but we just need that for Every scenario, right? Like I want to know I want to be able to find a place Or have regulation built-in to where no matter what side I go to if they're collecting information about me I want a single page that I can go to to see everything that I've collected and why Well, I think if they have if they have the ability to collect it We should have the ability to review what they've collected and say these are things you are not are not allowed to have I mean, I think that's Kind of the ethical approach to it. I mean, that's kind of the middle of the road thing where it's like you have information about me That's I don't know that I want you to have and I should be the one who says you can have this and you can't have that Agree. Hey, let's let's get that done.
Definitely Just call up our congressman Your local representative. Yep. Definitely. Well, I mean, I think You know blockers are definitely an important part of the internet today And I mean I know Adam I think you talked about it in the outline here that they kind of are hacky and in what they're doing So they're they're not exactly Very, you know good at what they do all the time, but I think it does say a measurable You know level of service for me that I'm willing to even pay for a blocker and so and so the blocker first that I use I do pay for and And it does kind of that's how far it's gone.
I'm willing to pay for my privacy if you will Yeah, and that kind of goes back to like the whole thing right like When I'm talking about a blocker, I don't want a free blocker with ads You know, like the whole reason I buy the blocker is to get rid of it So it's like you go and you do research and you find out the one that is Is solving the problem that you want and personally I use ghost read and I use it because it's free because I feel like paying for for blocking something that should be there in the first place is It's kind of ridiculous. It's almost like supporting, you know, this method like hey We always know there's gonna be this cat and mouse game, you know of advertisers and these ad blocking companies, right? Where they're gonna find a way to get around an ad blocker, right? They'll use some form of JavaScript to load it after you know the blocker has run or whatever because yeah, when you talk about running an ad blocker You're talking about something that is running in between the page loading after all of the code has you know compiled and has been served up to the web browser And it's this intermediate layer in between showing you the content and you know what you've got So you've got all this stuff and the adblock rascal go say like no, I don't want this.
I don't want this I don't even want this to show, right? It just feels very hacky and it feels like a wild west type game where Each one's gonna go back and forth until one of them comes out on top and I think like to do it has James has pointed out like There's no clear end to that based on what we've outlined because privacy is an afterthought and these companies are out there to make money And that's what they're going to do and just like the advertisers are out there to make money The adblock companies are out there to make money too So just keep charging more and more or whatever it's going to be or like you hear some of them, you know, like actually Will um sell slots aside. They'll say hey like if you want to be on a whitelist for our blocker You got a pay us a number of dollars, right? Like and that's even shady too, right?
Like the whole point of blocking ads is to block all the ads But if these guys aren't making money off of you know making these ad blockers those tell advertisers like hey I know you guys aren't happy if you pay me some money I'll let your thing go through on the whitelist and your ads will show up to these customers So all around shady it's the slim shady of advertising Absolutely Slim shady of advertising I like that so at the end of the day I think we should we should briefly talk about do you think blocking ads is Ethical is it something that is is morally right for us to even do? I absolutely think it's ethical And it may sound kind of like um You know tip for tat, but I mean if they're if they're able to view What i'm clicking and see my every move if they're able to see my uh my data self I should be allowed to say no you're not allowed to have this and I should be able to say well on this website like if i'm on amazon And I want to say this thing that i'm searching for is this something that I would like to have a brighter a wider view on and they want to do The advertise on that particular thing then maybe I can make a decision to say like no I want you to know that i'm shopping for this because I want to know other avenues which I can purchase it Or if i'm if i'm doing something, you know looking up You know personal medical information over the case maybe I don't think that should be something that they should have My information on so I absolutely think it's ethical to be able to say this is information you are allowed to have and we're not allowed to have And so when I think blocking ads definitely a part of that You know, I mean I don't want to be reminded of something that I searched for two weeks ago that doesn't matter anymore And I don't want to be constantly be reminded of something that I searched for that may not have been a pleasant thing to search for Because I mean that's that's certainly a thing that people do I mean what if you had a relative that passed away recently and you're looking up Different you know if it used to put your bed relative in you know, I mean that's not something you want to be reminded of all the time And so why would I want to be advertised on something like that? So I think I think being able to block things is really important to the consumer and not be reminded of these things that they've searched for Weeks prior But I think the main question is is that um do you think it's ethical in the sense that This is part of the terms and service of their agreement for you using their product and you are now finding a way to circumvent that Is that okay? Like should we have a way to get around using this without Buying into their option which is part of their agreement of using the products because we care about privacy and I tend to agree with you Yes, but my question is is that it almost feels like in some people make this argument in a sense that you're stealing from them because This is the way they make money, right?
And especially in a sense where you're talking about a company that only deals in tracking Like if you disable tracking and continue using their service you're using their service for free not in the way they intended So is that stealing no and the reason why? In the US there there is no inherent like right to privacy that we have written out at least that I'm aware of right like we say We have a right to free speech in this on that right? Right, but in signing up for the services or using these services There's the terms and conditions that they have for using whatever it is so Yeah, is it stealing because we're going about this and I tend to agree we have a right to privacy, but I'm curious you're taking Well, it seems like to me it's American companies that have a problem making money without tracking us right? I mean, it's if this is like uniquely united states issue And it's not an issue to other countries where their product is centric around my my privacy And they still have a way to make money because they have to keep their business afloat, right?
It seems like this is a US-centric problem and I don't you know, I don't want to blame capitalism wherever, you know, that's not what I'm trying to do But that's kind of the society that we created is we allow these businesses to make the absolute most amount of money possible But the thing if it is is to what point is that starts to breach on ethics and start to bump into my freedom And I just think it's gotten it's getting to a place if it hasn't already getting to a place where it is Nothing into my freedom because I am not allowed to say you're not allowed to track you and it's very difficult to find a way to accept what's happening And so I don't think it's stealing I just think it's they don't have as big of a profit margin and I'm sorry I just don't feel bad for these near trillion-dollar companies that Aren't that don't have the same profit margins they have before because they can afford to have a smaller profit margin at the benefit of my privacy and yours I mean, I think blocking ads at least at this point is ethical if ad networks did not have as much Personal information about us as they do it would be very different Yeah, and just running it out there. I am playing devil's advocate here. I absolutely agree that we have a fundamental right to privacy and us circumventing this because We don't want to use this but continuing to use the service Is isn't our right? And like I said, I'd be happy to you know, if they required me to turn that off as they like fine Okay, I need to know everything you're collecting about me I need to be able to see what you're collecting and how you're using that data We need to there needs to be some kind of transparency because right now we're kind of living in this murkiness And that's what's you know bothering us especially right like all the tech people like hey, I'm really bothered by this because I don't know what you're doing with it I don't know what you have if you show me what you have great, right?
But that's how they're making their money. So there's no incentive for them to give any of this up And that's you know, and I agree with you totally on that right? I mean, that's I think it's really important to know what you're getting up It definitely goes back to the argument of transparency Well, I mean, I think we've had a fairly good discussion here of blocking and just advertising in general Adam, do you want to go ahead and wrap us up? Yeah, so I guess the question now comes is We've offered this podcast now for a little while right?
It's something that we have and we'll ever do ads on this podcast So I can say after this episode, you know, no advertisers would want to you know work with us But it's just kind of a joke, right? But I guess it really depends like what we do ads on the show Right now. I'd say we're still kind of weighing our options, right? And Given how passionate we are about the subject of privacy and tracking and this and that And how we want ads to be tasteful and start up in a right way is we're really trying to To weigh and find out what the best option for us will be and the best option for our listeners will be So we're still weighing between like our patronage model versus ads supported and a lot of podcasts are kind of doing that Who knows maybe we'll create an online poll and kind of leave it up to listeners But yeah, I'd say, you know The feedback is it's a two-way street, right?
So we're putting this out there is hey, you know, these are our opinions if people love to listen to it great, you know We're not expecting anything out of this, but you know, we do have cost too So I don't know that you guys have any thoughts on that. I mean that was kind of like my little short-sighted ideas The moral of the story for me with advertising is you know, I'm I'm inherently not against advertising You know, that's that's fine Like I you have a product that I want to purchase and I would like to know more about it And you do that through advertising to me and that's okay. Okay with that There's no real ethical breach there that's how companies make money What I do mind is this whole Just because it's a good example of a better example is I don't want target Knowing things about me before I feel about myself like knowing that somebody's pregnant before that they know they're pregnant Like that's just that's just a step too far like it's just so intimate so creepy and weird and It just gives me a heave that I just don't like it or like it's the Google listening to me or the Alexa or whatever listening to me all the time like it's creepy I'm not into that so there's always this there's just always a balance there And I think you know if if that was something that we were to do on the show It's just important for us to maintain that balance and really you know be steadfast on you know Our moral upstanding on how we think about advertising and how we present it Yeah target may know you're pregnant. We won't know you're pregnant right.
I'll have no idea Definitely. I think we are going to keep privacy in front of mind in our decision All right, so uh, Lou you have some travel plans next week from what I understand Yes, I do so I will be missing next week and there will be a special guest on the show In my place. So I hope you all can look forward to that and stay tuned for that. Yeah, definitely Cool.
All right guys. Well, I'm I'm exhausted talking about this I mean when we get on a topic we're passionate about I think we all kind of ramp up and uh, this one was definitely a doozy It was but but an important but very important subject definitely was Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's something that's uh, you know, we talked about last time, you know, like Privacy something that newer generations just willingly give up right in exchange for a product And I think it's it's important to kind of understand what you're doing in that scenario Um and just trying to educate as many people as you can like hey, you're giving up a lot for this service And do you really want to be doing this or do you really want companies to know xyz? So To all the listeners out there listening to this podcast I hope that you're also interested in technology and if you're not great like maybe you're dipping your skills into it But you know think about privacy a little more and if uh legislation ever comes up You know that enhances our our options for privacy or protects our privacy as citizens Definitely support that legislation and if there's ever legislation that comes up that Starts approaching on our privacy and racism is definitely color representative I couldn't agree more Well, okay, all right guys.
Well, uh, I'll see you in a few weeks. I guess Yeah, lu enjoy your time. We won't miss you at all So nice Adam Hey, man You gave me crap the first second of the the podcast when we return right after height is like oh adam Yeah, adam's returning This is true. I did do that.
Yeah, like an afterthought Yeah, so, you know, it's it's just it's payback Okay, i'll take it I'm sorry guys. I realized that uh my my backways backup started triggering because it's 12 o'clock on uh sunday And i probably started choking my internet like crazy. Oh, that's all right. We uh, we made it through Yeah, that's that's what that was about 12 o'clock or so.
I was like whoa adam is just like dropping out like crazy But jim is solid what is going on here? Yeah Oh my gosh. I don't know what is happening Uh, i'm gonna i'm gonna set up that scheduling business later because it's my shit is freaking out