028: Art & Tacos w/Special Guest Aaron of Artarys

This week's episode features special guest Aaron, the co-founder of Ardery's, an art marketplace that believes the term starving artist belongs in the past. Visit Ardery's.com to learn more and join their mailing list for future updates. That's A-R-T-A-R-Y-S.com. Listeners who mention creative genius in the contact form will receive a special gift when Ardery's launches.

Well, that's really important, those glasses are clean, so I'm glad that's taken care of. Lou, do you have to wear glasses? No, not yet, at least. Yeah, then you don't know what it's like to try to look through foggy glasses, so shut the fuck up.

Hey, man, I'm just saying, you know, I would assume one would clean the glasses on the regular. Seems like a normal thing to do. There are sometimes where the clean glasses, and this is just my experience, and I don't even wear glasses all the time. I only wear them when I look at computers.

Ironically, I'm not wearing them right now, but hey, whatever. But sometimes the cleaning cloth just doesn't seem to get all the junk off the glasses, or you'll clean it once, and then you put it on, and you're like, oh God, I missed a spot, you know? So it's such a first world problem, you know, because it's only affecting you, but the glasses are right in front of your face, you see everything, everything. It could look fine, four feet away, and then as soon as it comes right up to your face, it's like, everything is there.

And even just one little smudge makes the piece of purpose of the glasses, so. Very true, very true. Well, it looks like we're pretty much back to our normal bickering. I guess we should introduce everybody to Aaron, the guest of the week.

You know, I hinted about the guest last week, but Aaron, you want to say a quick hello? I know you've had a good chuckle of us bickering. Hey, guys, what's going on? So, Aaron, we have a little bit of a tradition on this podcast of when we bring on a new guest, this is a tradition in that I don't really like a particular artist.

And it's well, well established that Adam has a special place in his heart for a one Taylor Swift. So we would just like to get your thoughts in the input on the Taylor Swift. What do you think about her? Oh, it's a her.

Ah, yes, I'm going to call this a W in my court already. I'm just over here, you know, like boiling in rage, you know. When I saw that when I was going to be asked about Taylor Swift, the first thing I thought was, oh, wow, I haven't been keeping up with the Olympics. Because apparently this person is winning a lot of gold.

But no, I don't think I've ever actually heard a single Taylor Swift song besides maybe something in a commercial. So I have to recuse myself because I have no idea. All right, Jeff Sessions. Yes.

You've definitely heard this in passing because you and I used to work together and I know I played this at work or I played a Taylor Swift song at work. So I'm sure at some point in time, maybe you didn't recognize it, maybe you didn't know it, but you heard Taylor Swift. That must have been one of the very few moments where I was happy when we were working together. See, there it is, right?

Spreading joy to all of the people. I'm sure that there's enough room for Taylor Swift in everyone's life. I'm sure. You know, I hope so.

Because, you know, how they have team Taylor Swift, team Katy Perry, lose team Katy Perry, and I'm not team Katy Perry. But, you know, we were keeping track of how many people were T Swift fans and how many people weren't. I'm okay with you recusing your vote because that gives me the lead, so. Well, baby, you're a firework.

I guess that says which side I'm on. This is off a good one. So I guess we should say both of that we both previously worked with Aaron. So this is how we know Aaron, and we've worked with him for, Aaron, I've probably worked with you for a few years, and Adam, you the same pretty much?

I don't remember. Well, it's needless to say, I spent thousands of hours in my life with Aaron, and I don't regret, I don't think one of them. So, except Adam might regret like this one hour because of the Taylor Swift argument. You know what?

No, that's, that's the thing, right? Everyone thinks that I hate everybody. And that's not true. Like, I like a lot of people.

Aaron is definitely one of the people that I have never gotten into an argument with Aaron over anything. I don't think we've ever had like, you know, words or however you want to say it, but I've always gone along with Aaron. And that's kind of been one of the great things about it. But no, everything's about to get you, but it's just you.

Is Taylor Swift the one from the Apple commercial who falls on the treadmill? Yes. Okay, yeah, I'm a fan. Taylor Swift's not bad.

Yeah, she's, or she's rapping to, I think it's a Drake song, right? Yeah, Jump Man. Oh, it's a, okay. So Drake is the one that I like them not.

You just like Taylor Swift, you know, singing Drake songs. Like, that's fine. I can't consider that a win. Yeah, well, I really enjoyed working with both of you guys.

We definitely did spend many hours together and living halfway across the country now. I miss a lot of the peeps. Definitely do. But, you know, change is good.

And now I have other people here that I like working with equally as much. None of them are as good as that team, though. That team we had was pretty amazing. We did some really cool stuff.

Yeah, we were pretty awesome. We definitely were. Well, I guess I just wanted to put a little plug in here, too, that we should wish you a little bit of an early birthday. We don't get the off to talk to you, Aaron.

And so it's like, it's literally like, what a week or two away now. So, happy early one, man. It'll probably be, it'll probably be a little closer when this episode comes out. Yeah, it's a, I think I'm in the, in the state in my life where birthdays are horribly depressing.

I, this, this upcoming one is, I mean, I'm in my mid 30s, but every single one that I'm having now, I'm just finding to be more and more depressing. You're on like the upward trend towards that midlife crisis, you know? Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. But I mean, I think that when you get into that state of mind, it's, I never really drank a lot, but I think that that might be in the forecast for me.

But yeah, man, I really appreciate the early birthday. Yeah, it's in a little bit over a week. And, you know, it's just another year down. And one less year, I have to worry about living later on.

So dark. Yeah, you definitely are on that, that's the district side of the birthday spectrum. Yeah. So I'm probably, I think the youngest out of the three of us here and I, I recently, you know, a couple of years ago, I passed 25 and I was like, all right, yeah, there's, there's really nothing to look forward to anymore.

It's just like everything from here is either in five or 10 year increments. And you go through so many great ones between like 16 and 25 where there's like, you know, okay, I'm, you know, I can give my license to, you know, I'm a full adult too. I can train to like, I can actually rent a car and be a human and like, and then you go over 25 and you're like, yeah, everything's five or 10 years away from anything good. And even that, it's like, it's not really that good.

I don't really want to turn 30 or 40 or anything. No, the next, the next big milestone for me is, oh, I could be president now if I wanted. Yeah. That's not fucking exciting at all.

I don't know, man. I mean, if you can do it, anyone can. That is very true. Taylor Swift could be president.

Hey, he's a president. I was pushing that before Donald Trump ran. Well, she has about 30 more years. No, she's only what?

Two years younger than us? Yeah, she's 27, I think. Yeah, 1989, man. Oh, she's, she's a lot younger than me then.

She's, she's, she's my age, Adam. I think that the birthday thing, you know, actually, I could pinpoint the exact moment my birthday became depressing. And I'm really sorry to either of you if this, if this goes to your hearts or to any of your listeners hearts. But when I turned 25, my sister called me and she's my older sister and she was like, well, you're 25 now.

What that means is that in 15 years, you'll be 40. And 15 years just didn't seem far away anymore. It didn't seem like a long time. So ever since then, every time I have a birthday, it's just that it's now I'm this many years away from 40.

But I think that what that means, like Adam said before about a midlife crisis approaching it is that, you know, once I hit 40, though, then I won't have anything to be afraid of. I think that after that, every birthday will be great. So, how am I glad? Yeah, and the way, the way to think about it, too, is like, you haven't even hit the halfway point, you know, in terms of like your journey in life.

Like, you haven't even hit halfway. And with modern medicine, you know, that halfway mark keeps, you know, getting further and further away. So the way I looked at it was, like, it took me 18 years to become an adult. And, you know, it's going to take me another 18 years to be two times an adult, right?

Level two adult. So I'm like, all right, well, it will take them 18 years to get their adulthood and I'll be here. So, like, I have at least another frame of reference or a reference point just, like, to keep my age kind of in perspective. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Everyone wants to look at it. It's like, oh, it's, you know, I'm just getting older or this year goes by and it's another year. Or it's now, you know, another year closer to death or whatever. It's like, you know, time starts flying and you don't really know where it goes.

Like, you mentioned, you're like, oh, 15 years of 140 and I didn't think those 15 years are going to come by, you know, like, this quick, right? Like, we're already getting close to it. But just enjoy the time you have, you know, like, there's one thing I learned is to kind of like, just slow down a little bit, right? Like, days are going to go by, like, there's nothing you can do about that, but just enjoy the day.

And I know that sounds like a super hippie, like, you know, chill out, man, like total Santa Cruz lifestyle, but it's kind of true, right? And just enjoy the time you have. And if you make light of everything you did, like, today, I went and I played around with an RC car. And like, that was a fun thing that I did today.

It went to BMX track with the kids. And it's like, if you just take that away, it's like, hey, this day was awesome because of X and you do that each day. Oh, man, this is just starting into, like, self-help, you know, podcast. Yeah, Adam's going to start telling me about, you know, how I need to, like, mindfully meditate next.

And the Santa Cruz is really revving off on you. I do meditate. That is. Yeah, exactly right.

Like, 10 minutes a day. If that, right, you can do it in, like, two minute increments or five minute increments. But there's something to be said about actually, like, just clearing your head and just reflecting on just the day or reflecting on nothing in a lot of cases. And yeah, it helps a lot just with your outlook on life.

So, Lou, stop stressing out about stuff. Like, take a chill pill. Like what you just said about stress, though, is really, that's, I mean, the meditation side is really just to get rid of that stress. Have you ever, have you ever listened to the 2000 year old man?

It's Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner? I haven't listened to it now. Oh, yeah, it's a record. It's from the 50s.

So it's like an OG podcast. And Mel Brooks basically plays a guy who's 2000 years old. So they do this long interview and they're interviewing him and asking him questions and he talks about how he dated, you know, dated Joan of Arc and stuff like that. And after all of this time, two or three hours of interviews, Carl Reiner is just like, you know, what is your advice to everybody to live a long, healthy life like you?

And he's just like, you know, don't run for the bus. They'll just be another one later. Yeah, they go. They just chill out.

But yeah, taking a few minutes to clear mind. I don't practice like any specific meditation. Although I do have a couple of apps and a couple of songs that work for me particularly well. But like I have, I effectively have five different jobs.

And I am pretty much working all hours of the day, waking up at six and going to sleep at midnight one o'clock. Aside from every app out there that's available to help you sort out your life, you still have to make sure to maintain your own well-being in your own mental state. Either by meditating or painting or finding that outlet that really helps is really valuable. It's really valuable.

So yeah, as you get older and you get more and more stressed because every single year you add more and more crap to the list of crap going on in your life. Got to go learn how to put it in perspective and chill out. And I think moving to Texas from California was a motivator to kind of get my head straight. Well said.

Well said. Very well said. Well, I guess we should move on into a little bit of follow up and speaking of lowering my stress levels. I guess Adam needs to be a little nicer to me.

He says in the show notes here. So what is this about Adam? You need to be nicer? Do you need to apologize?

I do need to be nicer. I don't know about apologize. But I do need to be nicer to you because there's been a couple of reports. My wife is one of them where she was like, Hey, you're really mean.

Like if I didn't know you and I listened to this podcast, I would think you were a dick. And I was like, Well, okay. I guess that's true. Because you and I, like we've always had this kind of relationship.

It seems right. It's never really been. It's never been odd to me or I guess I never looked at it through like another lens. But now that you know, I'm starting to get people to say like, Hey, like you're really mean.

I was like, Well, I'm not mean all the time. Like it's just the way that I kind of interact. So basically all this is to say, I guess I need to try to be nicer to Lou and not jump, you know, down your throat all the time. Just maybe like 50% of the time.

So you can feel free to check me on that one. So I'm sorry, Lou, for being so mean to you and I'll try to be a little bit nicer. No, it's totally good. The funny part, Adam and I have, yes, always kind of had this relationship.

Adam and I are just separated by a couple of years. And he's always, I feel like just a couple of years ahead of me in life and in every way. And he's always like just kind of pushing me and throwing punches at me a little bit. Be like, Hey, you can be better.

Do this and throwing stuff in my face. And it's, it's all, you know, out of love. So I take it with stride. I can, I can vouch for this.

I can, I feel so happy that I can, that I can vouch for this entire thing. I can work with both of you. I can say that this is how you two have always been. Thank you.

It's good that I, this kind of follow up, you know, these, the reports and that was discussing them came on at a point where, yes, we're having someone on who has worked with both of us and seen both of us interact because yeah, if, if you've never really seen our relationship at work, you know, not at work, but at work, you know, like actually working, yeah, it's, it's awkward and it just sounds like I'm a horrible person, but I get along with it a lot. I have a special place in my heart for Lou and yeah, it's true. Like I try to push him sometimes like, Hey, try this or this or like you can do this. You can do that.

And it comes across as mean. I'll try to, I guess, re revisit my approach during the podcast hours to make it seem like, well, not to make it seem like, you know, but, uh, because I'm like, you care for me. No, I just told you, I can't forget it. You know, bore my soul on the audio and fuzzy and then you're like, well, I kind of need to put on an act when we record the podcast, you know, I just, I need to tone it down for the podcast is what I mean, right?

Let's do good. Yeah. No, it's, it's totally, you know, the norm for us. So I get it.

I'll turn my sounds down from 11 to 10, you know, like, oh, so sweet of you. Oh, thank you. So we also have a little bit of a follow up about pronunciation. So, uh, Adam, you want to walk through the, uh, what is, what is this actually called when, when they give you the pronunciation in the dictionary with all the squiggly lines?

Is there a, is there a name for that? It's the phonetics. Yeah, it should be the phonetics smelling. Okay.

Okay. Well, thanks for like making that a lot easier than I thought it was. I figured there would be some like name for this character set. But anyway, um, you want to, you want to go through the, uh, pronunciation, Adam?

So I guess if you never read phonetics, could you, could you read this? Like, this is how they do it in the dictionary and everything, right? So I copy this straight from, you know, Mac OS is dictionary. So you could, do you understand the phonetic alphabet, Lou?

Like, do you get those? But like, I don't know that I've seen some alphabet that says, you know, like, this is how you pronounce each one of these characters. If there is such a thing. Yeah.

I looked at it at one point and it gives you kind of like, you know, this, you know, symbol over these letters means this and blah, blah, blah. But, uh, so last, last week we talked a lot about different, you know, Linux distributions and one of them, uh, you and I both pronounced different ways. So this was kind of like follow up for me to actually figure out how you pronounce it. Uh, so I looked it up and it's, uh, Ubuntu.

So Ubuntu is, uh, uh, it's African for, I believe it was something to deal with harmonies and I'm gonna have to look it up again. But it was, it had this really, really interesting meaning behind it basically where everything's coming together. And I, I think I said Ubuntu and people say Ubuntu, but I believe it's Ubuntu. So I just want to, you know, say it correctly once on air.

So no one can say it correctly. And if I probably still say it incorrectly, then I'll hear about it. Oh, that's very cool. I, I don't know how I pronounce it last week.

So I don't know if I actually said it correctly or incorrectly, but, uh, but I'm glad I've like learned from it. And, uh, if I did get it correct, I'm quite surprised I did because it's, it is a funky word. Have you ever used, uh, Ubuntu? Aaron?

I have. I was, uh, I was really into, uh, Leo LaPorte, the tech guy on KFI from way back in the day. Um, I wonder if he's still in the air. Oh, yeah.

He has his own network now. Can't get him to shut up. Isn't he on Twitch or something? No, I twit.

Yeah. Twit. That's it. Twit TV.

And he's in a lawsuit with Twitter, I think right now for copyright stuff. So yeah, you know, but, um, he was a pretty, pretty big proponent of Ubuntu and I, I tried it out. Uh, didn't particularly, I mean, it's, it's phenomenal if you, if you really are into the computer science side of things and want to go kind of crazy, but to me, I, I like the least amount of interference possible when I'm using a computer, um, so for me, it's the less work the better. And I don't max.

So I do Mac. Yeah. There's something to be said for like familiarity, right? Where it's something you grew up on or something you're really used to or something you're accustomed to.

And yeah, switching, especially something like an operating system, right? Like, you know how to use a computer because you've used a computer every day for so long and someone says here, use this computer. And it's totally different. You kind of go in that period of like, oh my, how do I, where, where is this thing?

I used to do it this way. Now it's this way. I don't like that. And I know we've all kind of had first hand experience with that, you know, with people coming in with, you know, just anxiety on like using a computer and that's never something anyone wants.

So to willingly, you know, put that on yourself by installing a different operating system is not something a lot of people, you know, care to do. So it's, but it's nice to try like, you got to try it once, right? I didn't inhale though. I tried it once.

I didn't inhale. Yeah. There's a lot to be said between, for the difference between user friendly and used to friendly, like I've come across that so much and with computers, used to friendly is, is a really, really bad thing to be. There's so many people that are like, I love the way this is, keep it.

And that is a really bad place to be if you're in technology. It's just, no, don't go for familiar with your customers. Go for user intuition rather than, oh, they'll know. It's just like that.

If you, if you say it's just like this, it's, you're off to a really bad start. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't think that's phonetic spelling. I thought it was like, what's it called?

Asky? Asky art? Because I thought it was just sounds. Yeah.

I was looking at that, the phonetic spelling of a boon to and I was like, that's really cool. Looking, it looks like, um, it looks like a nice graphic art for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Like frowny faces and upside down may face. It looks like something Taylor Swift would get tattooed vertically on her ribs. Like, oh, this is, these are like Thai symbols for hope, like something really lame like that shit. Wow.

Wow. It's Adam's version of graffiti in the pages document. That would be actually a really cool version of graffiti to put on anything actually. And you know what?

It has a meaning behind it too, right? Like you could put that on there and people like, what the fuck is that? I don't know. It means something.

I was staying at the, at a hotel in Cupertino, um, which of course is Silicon Valley for any listeners. Well, I guess all your listeners know about Silicon Valley. Um, I was at this hotel. I don't remember which hotel it was.

I think it was something by the Hilton, uh, but, uh, the, the, what are the curtains above the window called? You know what I'm talking about? The valences? Is that what you're talking about or?

Yes. I think it's the valences that are balanced or whatever. Valences. Yeah.

It's like the entire thing was the art on it that like the, the pattern was made out of binary. And I was like, this is like a super nice hotel, like this is a really nice hotel that is, is ready to bring me a $10,000 bottle of champagne, which I'm like, it's in their menu and they have binary like on, on their valence and I was laughing so hard. And then I found out that they had a binary code like all over their hotel just hidden in the design and in the artwork. It was really cool.

What you don't know is that like, it's the actual source code for like, you know, some, you know, original operating system of, you know, some big name company somewhere just scattered all across the floors. Just, they hit the source code in plain sight. Mm hmm. Just like that movie source code with Jake Gyllenhaal.

Yeah. I never thought that was another one where he like was reliving the same like day or something like that. Or is that a different Jake Gyllenhaal movie? Yeah.

It was like Groundhog's day with autism. I think. Is that it? Yeah.

That's not source code. Is it? Is that the movie? It might be.

I don't remember. I never watched it. But I saw that the trailers. I'm like, didn't someone just do this where you know, they had the Groundhog's Day thing going on?

Maybe just felt like Groundhog's Day. And I'm like, you know, Jake Gyllenhaal, Bill Murray, they're essentially the same person, you know. Speaking of movies though, Lou, you actually watched your February movie. I definitely did watch my February movie.

It was pretty good. I have to say. I was pretty happy with it. Like overall, if we're going to thumbs up, this was definitely better than Iron Man.

I liked it more. I definitely got some. There was like, the one thing I can really say about it was the number of like, solid lines that from the movie was way above a normal comedy. I mean, it was probably like 15, you know, good, funny lines throughout the movie.

So it didn't take more than like every like five or ten minutes. I was laughing pretty good. So I was pretty happy with the movie. And that movie is definitely the king or queen of one-liners, that's for sure.

Yeah, I don't know like, I mean, you guys probably know this or who the heck like wrote the movie script. But yeah, there's, it's just chocolate block full of like one-liners, but it was definitely good. There's some solid ones that I'm sure I'll just drop in in my everyday life now. Oh, you got to know who wrote Mean Girls?

Come on. Yeah. Think a little bit. Who was in that movie?

I have no clue. Do I have to know any of the actress names or actresses names? Because I definitely don't know any of them. Do you like 30 Rock?

What's that? The show? 30 Rock? Nope.

Do you ever watch Saturday Night Live? Nope. Well, I know what that is, but I hate notifications. What's that?

I know what that is. Mean Girls. Do you remember the math teacher? You know, Fay?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I remember the math teacher.

Yeah, she wrote it. Oh, okay. She's also one of the writers for Saturday Night Live and 30 Rock. Got it.

Okay. So if you like Mean Girls, you have an entire series to watch of 30 Rock. Yeah. You can watch all of 30 Rock.

Okay. Okay. I might actually like, I liked Mean Girls. So that would make a lot of sense to watch 30 Rock.

That might happen. I don't know. We'll see. If you're a movie list, John had mentioned the idea.

He's like, hey, should we also like maybe do TV shows? I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's a lot of commitment. I don't know if I can get him to sit down and watch a two-hour movie. Let alone watch like a 30-episode TV show.

Nope. Fun. That'll be for later. I mean, I'm not committing that much.

If you're gonna make me watch a TV show, it's gonna have to be like the entire year. It's all TV series. We'll see. That'll be the thing.

It's like, hey, bonus round. If you finish this and you have to start watching this TV series, right? But I don't know. I can serial watch a TV series and I do it with Breaking Bad every year it seems.

game of thrones right before you know the new season comes out but yeah you you have to be dedicated to that but like to Aaron's point right like Tina Fey like it's it's very much like there's a large cast of uh of Saturday Night Live um actors and actresses that appear in that movie but all the one-liners oh yeah it's it's it's great writing and it's just it's timeless right like I still watch it like I watched it this month you know just because we knew you were gonna be watching it and just uh some of stuff it's like it's like those rules aren't real they were real the day I wore a vest well that vest was hideous my problem is I don't like uh Amanda's to freed or whatever her name is but her character in this one is still perfect she played the dumb one and but like I the thing the thing that bothers me so much is she was she kind of was forced on us as this um like hot like this is she's now like a hot uh I don't know like car model or something like they were trying to push that and I think she's I can't stand looking at her I don't know what it is I had something about her makes me really visually uncomfortable like it hurts me to look at her it's very wow wow I like I won't watch that movie again and I won't watch anything she's in it I don't know what it is it's like I have ESPN or something but she was really funny she's a good actress I will get for that my uh I think one of my favorite ones was when they're sitting in like the cafeteria and Regina's eating and she's like his butter a car yeah oh shit oh it was just so good I was not expecting that like one liner to be drafted right there and uh whatever I was doing I just pretty much fell over okay so so now this gives me an idea to like better refine my algorithm for picking you know Lou flavored movies so I like that this one was a thumb up I'm very perplexed it was a thumbs up over Iron Man but hey hey man you can give me with comedies just like cereal just be like 12 comedies and like see if we can like home lose taste yeah right then I'll be like discovering new movies for you I would channel have you ever seen in brooch okay I'll take that as an awkward silence because I don't know um well that it anyway in brooch is uh is really really funny I would say run that run that next but I will say it's only really really funny for an extremely acquired taste so if you think that's funny it will really nail down what your taste is it's a it's fairly big movie too it's got um called in Farrell in it I think all right out of you better you better be jotting this down for uh for future movies well the guy who wrote it just wrote another one oh three billboards outside having Missouri so if you saw three billboards which is nominated for best picture if you saw that I thought it was funny then you will love in brooch or if you saw seven psychopaths you wrote that also so far so far I haven't seen any of these I don't expect you to yeah he is really really really dark it's all I gotta say you know next month he has to watch a sense of the lambs like no wait next one's March right you gotta watch Batman Batman yep which one what do you mean which one if I say Batman which one which one is a Batman I guess there is only one Batman technically yeah that's right that's right Michael Keaton Tim Burton Jack Nicholson as a Joker and Kim Basinger as Vicki Dale so I'm gonna I'm gonna accidentally plug a totally different podcast uh do either of you listen to Doug Love's movies no I haven't gone into too many movie podcasts I listen to the flop house but it's really funny um I accidentally was on Doug Love's movies in December I think or January I don't remember but he invites it's a movie like trivia game but it's fun it's you just got to listen to it and like a few weeks ago I was at the show where they were recording here and I got pulled up and we had to name movies from actors that were in the movie three minute a baby and I was completely lost but now every time I think of a movie I immediately have to go through the entire cast yeah right just you know in case you ever get pulled up on stage again yeah so Adam you know what I like now now you just need to ever find the algorithm and uh I'll see what uh 2019 has for me yep you still gotta get through 2018 so until that happens follow up on the follow up very true very true well this week we're gonna talk a little bit about uh something a bit different but we gotta guess to uh hopefully uh you know kind of fill us in here a little bit because uh as far as I know in this area and not too much but we're gonna be talking about uh tech and technology's influence on art and so I guess we should kind of start the way we normally do which is just kind of going a little round robin in and discussing our familiarity uh with the subject matter so Adam uh I'll have you start uh what is your familiarity with uh with art in general and is there any art in particular you're super into what can you what can you uh shed some light on that way yeah so as far as as my kind of familiarity with art like I know what art is like I've been around museums and I've looked at my fair share of art right uh took some art history classes in college and took some art classes in high school and what I learned from that is I'm very right brain so I'm not artistic in any sense right I just don't have those kind of muscles and I've tried a couple times to you know like I wish I was more artistic like I wish I had kind of that pole on my left side of the brain but it's it's hard for me to kind of express that in in a visual sense right I'm very much I like solving problems I'm very analytical so I don't know like I would love to be artistic but I'm just not and so my familiarity is I love looking at art sometimes but I don't know I'm just I'm too right brain I guess I know that's kind of cliche thing like oh it's so right brain that doesn't know what art is but I just I don't know I'm not a big fan of modern art I was more of a fan of kind of how I want to say I don't remember what style of art it was but like da Vinci not da Vinci but um oh my god like I'm killing myself like because I'm not remembering artists right now van Gogh was my favorite artist when I took art history classes because I liked just the brush strokes because it was so out there and like once you learned about this guy and learned how kind of crazy and coo-coo for cocoa puffs he was uh that just really intrigued me so but I guess that's my deal the art about art is I don't know much okay all right fair enough and uh I guess I'll go to our guest next because I think it's only fair that I flip it over the guest so uh Erin what is uh I know you're probably gonna have the most to say in this area but uh you want to give us a little background and context around art and kind of your uh how you got involved in art yeah um well I guess I should I guess my whole background I mean I've always been involved with art um I've always drawn and sketched and my parents really uh pushed me in the art direction and both of my parents were artists as well my my dad mostly like sketched and stuff like that um characters he's a he did a lot of medical drawings uh biology stuff he's a he's a doctor of evolutionary neuropsychology which sounds very very intense and cool and special but in all reality it just means you need to live off of government grants while you do research for the rest of your life um but he did a lot of that and then my mom was more of the artistic type you know painting and watercolor so they kind of pushed pushed me that way and um so I grew up with it I went through school with it and uh I did AP studio art in high school and I used to go to the middle schools and kind of talk about art with those kids uh then I went to college and went to Indiana University and I was an art major there before I had to leave for some familial obligations and um so I've always kind of been around it and uh uh and I've always gotten I got into video as well and that sort of exposed me into editing and uh digital effects and that made me interested in animation and I was doing little animations on my G3 Macintosh in a program called Flipbook if you remember that and um so I've always kind of been around it and uh I primarily paint personally uh that and that's actual painting as opposed to MS Paint or uh digital paint oh MS Paint is where it's at man um yeah that is way true MS Paint got like a huge overhaul too though right so like now they have like MS 3D paint and everything so oh yeah you can you can do MS Paint there's websites with like oh yeah the beautiful drawing right paint yeah oh yeah and I mean not only can you view some some awesome s pieces but you can also like go on and use the original MS Paint it's really cool and fuck around with some word art and stuff um but yeah and I mean I've worked in technology uh for in total probably 13 years uh pretty darn close uh and always had passions for it so now I'm just kind of applying everything I learned from both and that's uh where our company started is uh combining art and technology what can we do very cool very cool well we'll definitely talk a little bit about your your company um in a little bit we've definitely got that slated but uh I guess I should say that I am what I would say a consumer more of art than a today producer and um you know I've I've done a little bit along the way like I feel like any kid has you you have to do art in school and and there was some and in college I took some um classes where I did a few few things but nothing crazy but um I've been lucky to travel and and really see what I would say are some of the world's like best museums and so I've been to the Louvre I don't know four five times I've been to the Sistine Chapel um I've been to the Guggenheim in Spain um in Bilbao um I've been to the British Museum I've been to like Gaudy's parks and Sagrada Familia and a little closer to home like um Lacma and um the Getty and the Getty Villa and so I've been really really lucky to kind of move through quite a lot of high-profile museums and when I was young I was kind of drugged by family and I didn't I wouldn't say I had an appreciation but the more I approached art from technology as an educational tool um the more I I really sort of began to appreciate the art and the way that um technology could tell the story of the piece I was in front of which was you know unique and different for me mm-hmm it's it's way cool going to some of these new museums where they they literally hand you an iPod or you download an app and then they use geofencing through the whole museum and you walk up to a painting and you look at it and it that your headphone just immediately starts telling you every single thing you could possibly want to know that is the coolest shit ever it's kind of a rule in my family that when you go to a museum you absolutely try to go on every tour you can go on because having somebody tell you the story of the piece is so much better than you just walking around and reading the little clockard and you always buy the audio guide you always buy the audio guide because it just it explaining it to you is really what takes something on the wall that you're just looking at and you have not too much idea of you know what it is and you're trying to make sense of it and really just you know gives it depth which is so cool mm-hmm it's so it's it's I mean I remember going to the Getty when I was on a field trip you know when I was probably middle school and I can only imagine how much more I would have observed absorbed if the technology we have now existed when when we were there and I mean given that field trip was probably 20 years ago for me or 25 I know that if I had headphones and somebody was talking to me the whole time even though I would have had ADHD like I wouldn't get bored like if I was looking at a painting and being told everything about it that would have been awesome that would have been so awesome but oh well at least that day is here now that's that it excites me to know that that not only will the information about the art that exists today will be there for future generations but that the stories are being told in the way that fits these generations also I think that that's one of the large effects that that technology is having on art is just the visibility is the visibility yeah very true very true so when we talk about art and really how visual art is changing and the creation of new art today what can you tell me Aaron about just how tech is kind of influencing the changes in the art industry hmm well I guess I have to ask a clarifying question if you mean to ask its effect on how art is being created or on the actual industry the market of art well I guess let's tackle both of those questions but let's tackle the creation piece first perfect yeah um you know I never I in in kind of preparing for this podcast I never had really thought about how technology influenced art I mean in many many ways technology is influenced by art you know I think of while I was in Cupertino and I went to Apple Park the visitor center there and I saw the book Johnny Ives book of all the Apple products and you know just how the design of that is insane and you know art is art is just is just any physical form of human expression that's that's really all art is so now technology is giving people a brand new way or a lot of new ways to express themselves so naturally art has to progress that way also one of the moments that just blew my brain in half was when the original iPad came out and the what is the artist name he was an artist he was a comic book artist who came who went into an Apple store and bought an iPad and he did X-Men for 25 years Jim Lee and in the Apple store drew Wolverine on the iPad and just watching this guy who's made a living as an artist in within 30 seconds create a new piece of artwork in this entirely new technology was just insane now of course the way comms and tablets all existed before then but to basically be using this new this reinvented paper was just crazy it was just crazy and I mean 3D printing is I mean that should hasn't changed the art world dramatically yet but it absolutely will I think right now it's sort of an infancy sort of see what it can do but once artists have the the means to play with those you're gonna see some crazy shit it's gonna be it's gonna be a really interesting next few decades I think 3D printing is probably gonna have some massive influence on art especially when it because of of the youth playing video games and stuff and getting into character design and using programs like ZBrush to do 3D sculpture and if they can just print that sculpture out and it's just here it is it's from my mind that's gonna be we're gonna see some crazy some crazy cool shit it's gonna be nuts I am curious to see how far it will go I do I think of the first episode of Black Mirror if you guys watched that did either of you watch Black Mirror I've gone bits and pieces but I haven't watched like the entirety of the season so which I probably didn't see the first episode it's the one where the artist basically uses technology using social media to blackmail the Prime Minister to perform on the pig no wait was it a pig yep yeah that's it okay I remember this one and the entire purpose was he's an artist and he just wanted to make him do it that was it and I mean that that happens I mean fucking eating Tide Pods nobody's actually eating Tide Pods but somebody wanted to get people to eat Tide Pods as a statement and it worked for the five or so idiots who actually thought it was a thing yeah PSA don't eat Tide Pods yeah that's not a good idea it's a it's poison you guys don't want to be labeled as the Tide Pods generation it's not worth it no no it's I'd rather think of this generation coming up as a highly underestimated generation that is going to use technology to really do some crazy shit it's going to be really exciting so it's funny because you mentioned all these these examples of like oh yeah 3d printing you know it's going to have a huge impact on the art world and you know for me like everything that was created was more of a utility right where it was like hey this is solving a problem for X and that's why you know that was the mission statement of that product where that's in my mind everything that I saw but like you said now it's it's now how do we use this for the creative aspect right like getting the images in your mind out into the real world and I think for my mind at least that translates to you know something to fix a problem whereas you know for the more artistic right or people who you know enjoy just creating art it's more like hey now I can finally have a new way to express myself in these ways so I think that kind of just speaks to how different it is and why you know I never really got into you know the the art side of things because like for me just it never clicked I never had that aha moment where I was like yeah I have all this stuff in my head and I need to get it out in this medium so I think essentially how you bring that up and like you mentioned all these tools that have been out there I feel like they've been solving a problem not for artists but for something else but then artists find a way to use that as a tool in their daily lives oh yeah I completely agree I think that a lot of artists start as having a problem that they need to solve and then it sort of just expands from there and that problem could be you know it could be that they really need to release this emotion and they don't know how but it also could just be you know something like da Vinci you know the Vitruvian man is a is more of an analysis of biology than it is a piece of art but if I was to see it I would say that it's art so yeah it's a I think you know I don't think that a lot of technologies would be where they are without an artist trying to fuck with it you know something would come up and be like well that's cool but did you know I could do this like if you ever turned like a like a Windex bottle into a water gun when you were a kid you know you took this totally useful tool utility as you said for solving a problem and use your imagination and then express yourself with it so I think as the tools get more and more complex the art will get more and more complex as well like I could totally see the guy who created Bitcoin just deleting all of it you know just fuck it delete it all it was a statement I wanted to show everybody the money isn't meaningless and they proved it so and it's all because of Bitcoin and the technology of currency like that so you know I can't wait to see how crazy things get it's just going to get more and more crazy I feel like I feel like I go way deep with everything I say I'm sorry yeah I mean you basically just said like you know everyone who ever created something it's all in our piece I could like any moment but I think there's you know a lot of validity and that's a validity in that statement where everything that someone creates is art like you said right it's it's some way of expression so whereas I find my joy in creating like programs and coding and things like that that's my quote unquote art right and yeah yeah and like I said making a statement or you know people creating things you know and having this impact like it very much goes into that kind of like what did what was the experimental pair where people you know we're going through very experimental forms of art and you know where a lot of people said there was very loose interpretation of what is art like there's a guy who crucified himself to the back of a Volkswagen Beetle and drove that that Volkswagen Beetle around a racetrack once and then backed it back into the garage and that was his art piece right so art goes by many forms and I know we didn't really you know put a defining or a limiting term on art because it is so inclusive right or there are no boundaries to what can be considered art so I think it's interesting how when you take it in that lens or look at it under that lens everything is art yeah oh yeah um it my definition of art is pretty much just any any human expression of any human thought so it's just an expression of imagination so that would be the only there's two basically limiters on art then which is human imagination and the tools of expressing that animation that imagination um no as of now I mean human imagination to me seems somewhat fucking endless because I never know what my dreams are going to be at night I mean we just we literally just had an eccentric billionaire shoot off several hundred thousand dollar car into space and to me that was pretty fucking artistic and it just goes to show how crazy our imagination is now with technology technology is is strengthening our ability to express our imaginations it could be in film it could be digital art it could be a lot of different things but the one thing that I think is true is that that equally as important as it being a tool to express is that it's a tool to share and observe art the fact that anybody on this planet practically can view billions of works of art from every other corner of the world to view is to see the imagination of other people and analyze it and talk about it with their peers is just going to generate more and more conversation and then expand our imagination as fast as as the tools that we use to express it so to me it's it's it's it's really interesting how the two correlate I wish my business surrounded that a little bit more and maybe if we find ourselves in a fiscal position we'll explore it more but yeah the two are very much so intertwined and it's right as I've said probably 10 times already it's every day I look forward to what I'm going to see come up on any of my social media feeds surrounding art you've been talking a little bit about some of the tools that really let you express yourself and but I'm kind of curious you mentioned the iPad and that kind of puts somewhat of a marker on our timeline here but before iPad I know there was like wackum tablets and stuff like that I didn't really ever use any of those but did you ever really use any of those and and if so what were the challenges of those because at least to me when I saw them they looked incredibly complex and almost hard to use that you were detached from the medium itself and so I'm kind of curious what your thoughts were I was waiting for Adam to jump on you for the pronunciation for which pronunciation sorry I was asleep at the wheel here is it wackum or is it you know what so okay this is one where I have no idea man so I put him in there and I've heard it said both ways I always say wakum but I heard wackum way more but wackum sounds like wackum you know it does what is it is it wakum I have I have no idea oh my god you could call me out for like not calling out for an education but you don't even know what's for us I'm like 90% sure that it's wakom wakom okay all right well let's go with the wakom because I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that the calm yeah anyway communication right like yeah and then like way I don't know but there's no why yeah there's no there's no reason it should I'm gonna go in I'm just gonna say wackum I'm gonna say that that's the way it should be I'm sure there's a resource for this if only I knew how to search for it fair enough anyway Lou I am so sorry what was your question so the I just like it's hilarious about the tools yeah the tools about the tools so the other question really is so did you ever use one of the wake-up tablets and if you did what challenges did that really present to you as someone who's you know is actually creating art because it seems so detached yeah um you know I mean I think I probably first used wakom tablets and see I said wakom like in high school and college doing like Photoshop stuff and you know I think that you know putting a pencil to paper or a pen to paper or a brush to paper is very very natural it's the utensil becomes an extension of you and you know when you move it does the mouse you know despite being as amazing of an invention and a tool as it was there was still a barrier there was still a barrier between the artist and the tool and you know you moved this thing and that thing moves rather than just move yourself and it goes so the wakom kind of just substituted for the mouse and I mean it does the exact same this the exact thing is a mouse but really it just tried to decrease the layers of separation and I mean that really didn't change until some of the other tablets came out on the market that had an actual screen on them the iPad wasn't the first there was a few um there was a quite a few desktop computers that had similar technologies or ideas but the iPad just became so mainstream and realistically the hardware and the software just worked so well together that it it removed the technology part you were you were touching it with a stylus or your pencil or your finger and it was immediately creating it at the point that you were touching it and that hadn't been accomplished seamlessly until an iPad but yeah wakoms at the time I mean it kicked ass using those things now I don't think I really would as much so funny to think that you know I mean what we're talking about technology that is 10 years old or something like that and and I mean at the time as you're telling me this you know it kicked ass you know big big production studios in Hollywood or whatever you know artists you know for you know Disney and so on and so forth we'd be using stuff like this and and you know then you think about the today is like yeah they're probably not even around that much I mean they're they're there still but they're there's so much that has moved so far in such a short amount of time and speaking about that that timescale we went backwards a little bit towards the wake up and now going forward you know today there's there's things like apple pencil and that are out there and has this changed how you do art a lot Adam or I don't know if you do any art at all Adam or if it's just something you you kind of I know you said you're not very artistic so do you do any coloring or anything Adam so the coloring that we do in my house my kids are very much more artistic than I am so I think for them they enjoy kind of putting a pen to paper much more than I do and it's it's kind of funny you know Aaron you talked about I kind of want to backtrack a little bit is how there was you know the instant gratification of having a one-to-one relationship with where your finger is going and what's appearing on the screen and once again it kind of goes to you know the technology you know getting out of the way or as I like to say getting friction fucking free we're basically now yes it's a one-to-one relation so what you see is what you get you know we see way they're throwing old like website you know building tech turn out there but I think for me that's when these applications became appealing right or where I can see like you said them taking off in the mainstream where now everyone can have the thing in their hands where you can draw on it and it will you know basically express what you are wanting to express without this layer of abstraction in between it so I think that's really cool to point out how having that feedback was really important and I think we'll talk about a little bit if that is truly matching you know the experience of like putting a pen to paper or putting you know a brush to canvas or what have you but to answer lose question I've run the gamut on styluses because if anything I wanted to be able to diagram or draw something or do handwritten notes at any given time because there are some things where typing is great and typing will get you really far and you can outline you can do all sorts of stuff but there are times where you just need to draw a diagram or draw out a problem and I really wanted something to do that so I've had you know MacBooks and I've had iPads and I've tried kind of all sorts of different styluses so I used the the pencil by 53 which was they also had an app called paper right and this was a carpenter's pencil and it was kind of you know that that shape and my dad was a school inspector so he was very much into carpentry and had those pencils kind of lying all over the place so there's part of an nostalgia factor for me there and I always just liked how comfortable those were and I've used an apple pencil for a while and just kind of with standard apps but as far as like day to day like there isn't much art that I do but when I do pick up a tablet like to write notes on the apple pencil has been the the one that I've kind of had the most affinity to where I was like okay well this makes sense and this feels good but really the only thing I look for in mind is palm detection because I'm just writing I'm not I'm not drawing so it's I'm not the best to ask this question but I hope that kind of answered it I don't know okay well I just wanted to kind of get an idea of mainly what you're doing with the the not-so-very artistic capabilities you have so uh writing notes drawing diagrams drawing squares and circles and lines that connect them so you're doodling stick figures Adam's doodling stick figures and erin what are you doing with apple pencil who said I have an apple pencil yeah I know I did oh do you have an apple pencil oh I'm just I'm just fucking with you I definitely do use an apple you're like of course I have an apple pencil I definitely do yeah um sort of a bitch I need to stop myself from being like Adam oh you don't have to I mean like it's fine I mean you're just fooling me you're trolling me the whole time because I'm like really you don't have one oh I do um yeah I uh but you know I I never really done a lot with digital art um I primarily well a digital art in the sense of drawing or painting digitally I did a lot of video production and that's kind of where my background was in the arts with with the tutors um but I do use the apple pencil on a on a big I big ass iPad pro and I like procreate procreate's a really good app uh it makes me feel like I actually have talent when I finish something on it um and uh they're just great tools they work really smoothly even I use the notes app that's native to iOS uh for sketches it works excellent it just it that's that's what I use they're both really great although I will say paper is excellent also papers a good one so I can say I actually don't I haven't used paper and I haven't you I have procreate but I don't say I'd use it I think it's above my uh my intellect in terms of artistic ability it's kind of a daunting program if you ask me um or or app I should say but mainly what I use my apple pencil for um and I'm sure you guys are semi familiar with this is the um they have those like coloring book apps um like adult coloring book and so if I really want to like zone out I will use the apple pencil to uh I use different notes but I definitely use it to just color and sometimes it'll be an hour of coloring in other times it's five minutes but these are ones where it's like you can't color outside the lines it just gives you a way to make a bunch of different like different colors or do you turn it on the mode where you can color outside the lines? No I turn it on the mode where you can color outside the lines if you want to um but yeah I know what you're talking about where you have they have like um like certain settings for like if you want to be a crazy person you know color all over the place and color vigorously and don't worry it won't uh it won't go outside the lines no I usually am kind of detailed and with I mean granted with the iPad you can zoom in to like a crazy amount and so most of the very detailed ones I've done have taken me like you know two or three like sessions to sit down and work on something and each time's a half hour an hour of work so but um I don't know maybe if I I'll dig up an old one if I can find one and throw it in the show notes so yeah my my kids love those uh apps like where you can just like tap to fill in you know it's almost like the other paint bucket and MS paint right where you're just kind of feeling different different sections with different colors my kids love doing that on um on a tablet like that's it is kind of like a zone out and you know not think about something you know they're I'm sure they're you know deciding colors games in this and that but I can definitely say that lake is the one that they're on right now and that's definitely the app that gets used a lot on our ipads nice coloring book apps are way too fun big there I'm 100% on board with coloring book apps you know back in my day you had to buy a coloring book and you only got one chance to color that thing yeah this ship was called paint by numbers and you got the little you got the little plastic watercolor paints that opened up you remember and then by like after using it for like two hours everything is fucking purple everything's every color is purple now um I remember in school you would get those right and they have like the community set you know that you get so you'd always like just keep your fingers crossed that you didn't get some shitty ass one where like all of one color was gone or all the colors were all mixed together in purple or yeah sometimes you'd be like the lucky kid who get the fresh one you're like oh man i'm gonna keep this pristine and then you still end up fucking it up by the end of the the 30-minute coloring session mm-hmm I think that those were just a test I think that those were a test like the teachers were taking it out afterwards like just a grade you and like all right this kid's gonna go far oh look at this one he didn't mix up any other colors he's gonna be president someday or she she's gonna be president someday oh god I can see it being something like that I totally started into like some enders game shit you know like it's like they're training all these kids to you know be the perfect soldiers by not fucking up their crayola watercolor paint set mm-hmm so so I have no clue what enders game is so I'm just gonna I'm gonna move us right along in my normal fashion uh so moving on to a little bit more about uh education and consumption of art in general um I know Adam you said you tend to think that um there are apps that for drawing that it don't really give you the the essence of drawing um that you would if you were doing it in a more tactile way with actual you know paper and pen or something like that um you want to expand a little bit more on that well my question was so you you had in the notes and this is what I put the question was like it says apps allow for education so is are you talking about the education of art or are you talking about more of your education of like existing art or how to create art like what did you mean by apps allow for education well so I kind of put that in there as a as a twofold um I see you took it as more um you know the the education of the creation of the art um but I also think it's got a valid point on the opposite side around the um consumption of the art and the education behind it and we kind of briefly talked about you know the audio guides and stuff like that that allow for um the education um and you know your iPhone and iBeacon and technology like that are allowing um so that stuff to just kind of come to life and show you videos and all sorts of stuff that way but I'm kind of curious now that you put this in there because you took it totally differently than I was expecting which is totally fine uh but you said that it's uh it's not as nice as a tactile uh you know feedback that you would normally get so I'm curious what do you mean by that so yeah the way I took it was as Aaron kind of mentioned you know paint by numbers so I think that there's there's lots of ways like or apps out there they're like how to draw whatever like how to draw Pikachu how to draw a you know a Charmander you can tell that we're playing Pokemon in my house you know as uh as our game right now because that's all I can come up with for examples of things to draw but but yeah so I don't know art always felt like a very very analog um medium for me right especially like painting drawing this and that right and we spent all this time talking about uh tablets and how the biggest hurdle was getting a one-to-run relation between what you're doing and what you're seeing whereas something you know pencil like physical pencil paper brush you know canvas whatever it is you are getting that one-to-one feedback and there's something to be said about you know the feel of this or the feel of that and it goes to the whole analog digital argument and I think when you're learning something and this is you know my my opinion was I think that technology will get you to a point where it's like hey you know perfect concept you know you want to mess around and color outside the lines like this is something that will allow you to do that fuck up as much as you want throw it all away and there's no waste there's it's more cost effective whatever but I think when you actually go to create something and I don't know if Aaron can speak more to this but I would assume that it would be it would be more valuable it's a totally different experience to you know actually be drawing something in the physical realm rather than the digital realm so that's that was my opinion I still thought the analog side kind of was favored over the digital side in this aspect of the learning or the experience yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in there and tell you like I agree with you completely one of the things that I actually think that kids learning to learning to be artistic which I mean not every kid's artistic that's okay it's not a bad thing but if they're gonna take an art class I'm I'm fairly I would say almost against using a technology to do that for the reasons you just said I think there's an enormous difference between talent and skill whereas you know talent is natural and you you can just do things and it's it's it's in you whereas skill can be learned and and developed over time you know like you said you can you can develop the skill of being able to drop Pikachu but you may not have the talent to create an entirely new Pokemon you know to draw one that's its own and I think that kids that art is very valuable to kids because it's the if you're putting a pencil to paper or a paintbrush to canvas or trying to sculpt something if you cannot get what's in your head out and put it on that paper or it's not coming out the way that you want it to that is almost the first lesson to let you know that the world is not is not the way you think it is you know you can have this image in your head of what you want to paint and you have to put it on the canvas and you just fucking can't it just won't come out that is one of the most frustrating experiences for any artist or an author who has writer's block and I think that as you develop as an artist those moments are what determine whether or not you're you know by all means an artist an actual artist if you don't get over those frustrations and keep trying then you give up and you and you don't do it anymore something that's really funny is I think of deviantart.com versus you gallery.com whereas deviantart is almost all digital there's 25 million members on deviantart and like 99% of it is the fucking same and it's a lot of really really skilled people but they're just not artistic I mean I can I cannot differentiate any single one of the 50 million different anime digital creations on deviantart you gallery is actually is real tactile art it's it's original fine art and that is somebody who pulled their brain out and put it on a canvas and said this is the expression I was trying to get they didn't spend time going through the different searches of the help menu to figure out how this tool does what and it's like yeah you learned that but what did you create when when you get somebody though who combines their skill with their talent that's when you have your fucking da Vinci's you know that's when you have your war halls that's when you get people that below your fucking brain in half is when you get somebody who's equally as talented as they are skilled you get something something crazy and I don't think you can develop the talent unless you've faced the frustration of of going analog and and playing and and getting frustrated with yourself and getting mad at yourself I mean Van Gogh I'm cut his own ear off or I think that's probably just a myth but either way those sort of adventures really let you test yourself and see where you actually want to go and what you want to be so I think for educational purposes I don't think technology should be involved early I think it should come up later you know maybe end of high school college but early on in child's development when they're exploring the arts they really do have to get that shitty watercolor paints it out and and fucking do it and if they get mad and they get frustrated let them push through or help them push through or you know give them positive reinforcement give them value and give them critical feedback that can be used to change and express themselves in different ways in the future but with technology I really do think it has to stay out until it can it can be brought up later I think if technology is brought in too soon they will focus on the importance of skill over talent and I think that can make some some pretty pretty shitty art in the future you know I think of transformers versus Lord of the Rings in terms of special effects the special effects in transformers are monumentally better in terms of how they look they look fucking real those are very skilled animators but when I look at Lord of the Rings which I could tell things are fake and I and I know that but it's fucking beautiful to look at and every single thing is unique I know that the people making that are maybe not as skilled but I believe I view them as being more artistic and more talented and I think that maybe it's just because they focus on the art side as opposed to the skill side so I think the role of art and education I think it can do without technology for at least a few years I think that's a great you know interpretation it's nice to know like because I mean like my kids you know like I've always had them you know dress something on paper like they're drawings all over the place we have an entire like cabinet that's just filled with paper and pencils and markers and you know you name it it's there and I know they love taking that stuff out and drawing on it much more than they do like drawing something on an iPad because once it's on the iPad like you said yeah it's a skill right like you can refine that and I think you know your example is saying like hey look at deviantart and then look at you gallery and that right there like I just pulled up you know both those web pages side by side as you were talking about it and that really puts your whole argument into perspective right where you can look at one side and say like this is all clearly just manufactured right like you said this is just mastery of a skill you know it's not it's not artistic in the way that you would traditionally think right it's like hey these are people who made a perfect recreation of whatever right but it's just a copy and the other side is this is you know something that they had in their head or something that they saw and they put their own spin on it right they put their own flavor to it they they express it in their way and I think that's a very important distinction so I think we should include those two websites in the show notes because right there like as you were going through your argument I just kept referring back to those just looking back and forth and you can you can see to your point why the importance you know kind of lies on the analog side of things yeah and I mean the skill does have to be there and not just for creating art and I mean I'm kind of I'll kind of segue us a little bit but preserving it as well you know you mentioned all your kids scans or all your kids drawings and I hope you're scanning them you know scan every single one of those save it because now not only can technology be used to create art but could be also be used to save it for the future and I think there's a lot of shit going on there that's that's really getting crazy like like now they can use these insanely sensitive 3D scanners on paintings and they're using it to detect forgeries because not only can they detect exactly how high a breaststroke is down to the fucking nanometer a nearly atomic level but they can use it to see every sort of different color frequencies across an entire painting so they know that if it's a real or if it's forgery and also that they can use to fucking 3D print and you can you can literally get a breaststroke for breaststroke copy of a Van Gogh because his textures would make his shit really crazy in person you can get a breaststroke for breaststroke copy of an actual Van Gogh and 3D print it and it's a damn near perfect match and it would only be able to be differentiated from forgery by using some really complex spectrum analysis of color to see if there's another painting underneath it like with most of his canvases so it's going to be really really interesting over the next couple years as we sort of digitize all the existing art and and any of course IRL art so it's I really hope that you're doing that you better be scanning that that shit yeah of course we are yes so and that was kind of you know the preservation which I know we're going to get into in a little bit here but I was really kind of intrigued by the scanner technology you mentioned because I wasn't aware of things that you know scanning you know actual like 3D textures because that makes total sense right you know you take an original work of art and it's like how do you know that this is that work of art and this is a very you know down to the you know like you said the nanometer the way to tell this is the exact breaststroke that was made but to answer your question absolutely we're scanning all of the kids artwork and actually have to upgrade our scanners in the future here because like we still have like a backlog of stuff that needs to get scanned and we were kind of doing it just before with like pictures and lower quality but it's like okay well then we have something that were like really big so it was really hard to get a scan just of that right so we'd have to do it in pieces so we're looking at ways to continue that because yeah I mean it's tough to keep all your stuff right now all of our kids have a three three inch three ring binder with a bunch of sheet protectors in it that's kind of like their just art gallery holding you know section so as they finish something that they want to you know keep or they want us to scan later they put it in this in the sheet protector in this big notebook and they each have their own so they've decorated the outsides of them and done everything there and they just will make art throughout the day and we'll go put that in the in their little notebook or their binder and you know when it gets old and it's time to take all this about scan it and then put that you know that whole binder just in an archive somewhere in a box or and you know we have like all the storage in the garage so we'll toss it in there but that's kind of one of the things right it's like I still have a piece that I made in kindergarten where it was basically you were supposed to make a penguin out of construction paper but without cutting it you had to rip all of it you know by hand so I ripped it all by hand and my penguin was chosen as one of the best penguins in the class right so they put it up on you know on the wall in like the assembly room you know they put it up in the wall there and they gave it a little ribbon so I was so happy with that when I was a kid that my grandma actually put it in a frame so she put it in a frame along with the ribbon so I still have this actually in the garage in one of like the totes that we have which is like a piece of art that I had from when I was a kid just framed in glass you know just and I can just go back to that time in my head anytime because I was so proud of that art and like it's kind of kept with me so I want to make sure my kids also have that you know for something that they're really proud of so yeah we're making sure we keep all of their their works of art because you know they're proud of it's something they created something that came out of their head and like I said onto the piece of paper and it's like an extension of themselves so yeah we're not gonna just like toss that or you know in case of a fire anything like that like we want to make sure we have stuff backed up so yeah that's awesome that's awesome that's um that's one of the projects that our company is taking on you know as we we are going to be a platform through which artists can sell their work but a massive undertaking that is a very important part of our project is preserving and archiving every single piece of artwork that comes through and so we're it's it's uh let's let's quote Batman begins not regular Batman um but it's uh it's not what you say you know it's what you do that defines you right and I think that art is the is evidence not only that we are here but that we are capable of thinking and that we are capable of expressing ourselves good Batman quote Batman begins Rachel does Katie Holmes not not not the best you know character you know but that quote itself is very good so Katie Holmes is another one like Amanda subfried there's something about her that I feel nauseous when I see her face it could just be the Scientology it really could be well you just talk about some crazy shit right like um I don't know did she get into it as much with uh with Tonkers is that was that a thing I thought that was like a dividing part in their relationship yeah I feel like that's probably why they broke up yeah well they replaced her with a Maggie Gyllenhaal right or yeah so we so we referenced Jake Gyllenhaal's movie and we've referenced a Maggie Gyllenhaal movie was it like 10 degrees of separation to Kevin Bacon or something like that right so how many more do we have to go until we hit Kevin Bacon isn't that the thing yeah you could definitely do that with Gyllenhaals right it's almost been a movie with one of the Gyllenhaals I mean like we'll get there yeah eventually but yeah like the archival of things in the preservation is um is definitely something and this is when when I took my art history classes it was something that they talked about was like you know this this art is is precious in the sense of it's kind of outlined and especially when we're talking about like popular art right or we mentioned Van Gogh a bunch of times and eventually a bunch of times and the art movements right when you'd have this big shift in how art was was done um or how traditional art was done and how new artists were you know coming up with ideas that are thought of as crazy at the time right and that's the stuff that people kind of want to preserve is like this is a way for us to you know obviously preserve our history but a way for us to see how things progress and how that timeline kind of played out so I'm really intrigued by like you said the preservation of everything because it's something that I'm trying to go through right with my kids stuff but I can only imagine how important it is on a scale of with all the artists out there right uh who knows which is going to spur like the next quote unquote movement you know that they'll study in art history you know 500 years from now and will we have those tools in place to make sure that that is preserved and that all the records are intact uh just to I don't know to kind of like foster the next generation of artists and I think it's so important to point out too that sometimes we're so concerned with preserving the the piece of art itself but even just the the subject of the art sometimes um if you do find one of these you know artists that's the breakthrough artist um the subject is so important to the education behind the piece I think sometimes um I was lucky enough to a couple years ago visit um one of Monet's like lily gardens outside of uh Paris and like where he lived in the house and everything and and just to actually see the gardens that he painted amongst was just I mean it's like it brings so much um more depth to the work that you then go back into the city and you see in all the museums which was just awesome oh yeah it's super cool so we've been talking a lot about preservation but I think you know Adam you pointed out something that you know with digital art in general um there comes up the idea of you know it's easy to duplicate anything that is digital um and you know Aaron you mentioned this whole like um you know with these 3D scanning machines which I didn't know anything about either the detecting counterfeits is a lot easier today um but with digital that's a whole little uh that's a whole different thing right yeah I mean it's um it kind of I can't really think of a good analogy for it but um you know as the detection of forgery gets better the forgeries get better so you know we I think that something that will happen and that will likely happen within the next decade is we'll probably hear some news report uh that is you know some painting that was auctioned off for 200 million dollars as a as an original uh as an original and it's going to be discovered that it's fake and it's going to be a 3D printed piece uh that's going to happen and then it's going to turn into a what arts reel which original art here is actually real um so I think that it'll be really kind of crazy um to see a black market develop of of of original art that's not original it's gonna be it's gonna be kind of crazy um but yeah I think that the the upside of of really figuring out what people did and how they did it is worth it I think that creating the tools to to figure out exactly how they made paint and and what they used and and why uh is a is a part of human history we have to conserve um so even though the technology to analyze the artworks will get better and so with it the counterfeiting side of it will get better I think it's worth it I think it's worth the risk and like said everything's kind of like that calculated risk right you know it's like as the tools get better we know it's going to make this easier so how do we combat that or how do we take that into account as we're you know developing these safeguards are these ways to verify digital items and it's good that people are having that mentality going in right because it's much harder to be reactionary to something than it is to be proactive um but to my point in here when I put in the easy duplication I was speaking purely of of digital art right so when we talk about something digital right you can water market you can do whatever you can take a you know check some of the file but when it's digital you can take a bit for bit recreation of something pretty much you know instantaneously nowadays and maybe change a 10% you know or move a couple things around but it's so much easier to change something that's digital because it is just you know ones and zeros it is binary it is the the valences or the valences uh at the Hilton hotel you know I will I will just change your ones and zeros around a little bit and now they're they're mine you know it's I mean you got to think at that that crazy small level that you know it really doesn't take a lot you know when you're dealing with something digital that we could just change a spec you know of something digital and it's technically a different you know file or you know item yeah yeah and you know what I thinking of it that way too um you know my my business my company is is around original art of fine art um we we're I don't think we're gonna do too much for digital art um right off the bat I'm sure we will eventually but um one of the things that's so uh fucked up because of the easy duplication like you're pointing out item is both of you guys are pointing out um is that it's gonna be really hard to establish um a real ownership of something you know you could see the most amazing piece of digital artwork you've ever seen in your life and you may never know who actually created it because the person who published it and got the most likes and paid their you know facebook ad booster is the one who's getting the credit you know not the actual artist and I think that that will limit the ability of really good artists to get the exposure and attention and money that they deserve um so I think that digital artists uh it's gonna be really hard for somebody with immense digital artistry to to really make a living because I think that a lot of their thunder can be stolen you know I think of even just logo and graphic design that shit is so intense and can be so difficult but uh you know you can get one for five dollars on Fiverr you know Fiverr.com and you can roll up and I need a company logo okay here's five bucks and that person who designed your logo could be the next eventually but they're never gonna get the exposure because I'm not they just okay if anybody can duplicate anything they do um or just warp it a little bit you know uh so I there's not a lot of protection there and I think that artists who um who love it because they love expressing themselves uh need to get away from digital if they can they can they can still do it and have it as a great hobby of course but nothing can disprove that piece of that painting in front of you that can't be disproven but code can so I do think that digital artists these days really need to evaluate if they're doing it for the art or if they're just doing it uh because they like it you know which I think are a little bit different it's just a level of meaning uh yeah it's it's kind of crazy to uh to see where um where that kind of stuff can go and you're you guys are totally right that it's just it's too easy it's too easy to steal way too easy yeah it's it's definitely incredibly easy so I know you've kind of danced around it a little bit and uh but you're your company um why don't you tell us a little bit about the company and uh and the mission of the company hey before we get into that like you know it's funny you mentioned you know how easy it is to account if like how do we solve this problem right we did spend an episode talking about you know DRM and music and if it was a good thing right and how do we ensure that you know this work that this person created these people are getting credit for it so do you foresee like an art DRM in the future where it's like you bought this piece by this artist right and you can only be used on this platform and you can only be used in this section like is that where we're heading or do you foresee it going somewhere else and I know you kind of mentioned like hey digital artist you know it's gonna be hard for you to kind of make a living out there uh whereas physical yeah physical is physical right like you buy a CD in a place you can't take that CD anywhere else or you can try to make duplicates of it but it's illegal and how do we crack down that it will there be DRM for art yeah I think that they're there will have to be at some point uh I think it just depends on how big the market gets and uh how the legal system views different rights you know one of the things that was really important in our mission as we develop and work with our legal team is is how do we make sure that yes somebody is buying an original oil painting but the artist maintains the rights to the use of that image which is totally different than owning it so it's it's gonna be very weird to see how it how it expands and and how they go about protecting themselves because nobody else is going to protect them it's it's just on themselves yeah I don't I don't really have too much input on that it's just I know that it's it's gonna need it's gonna need some looking at that's for sure yeah and I was kind of my question like all right we have DRM for this and we've argued about DRM even existing you know for so long and here we have this new problem coming around it's like all right well what's the use of way to fix this and it's like immediately we can say like well DRM sounds like a way that we can fix this and then kind of run into the whole the whole same set of issues right where people can start confidence still and is this you know how people really want to consume the art and like you said licensing and use uh of an image versus the original piece and yeah it sounds like there's a bunch of crazy things going on but it sounds like you know these are all questions that you're potentially you know looking at or have on the you know on the blackboard or the whiteboard somewhere like hey this is you know a problem we'll have to solve at some point mm-hmm yeah absolutely um it's definitely one of the things on the very top of our priority list um yeah so what do you want to know what can I what can I tell you about tell you about arteries yeah so I mean I guess first you've kind of outlined the uh the mission of the the company but if you wouldn't mind just kind of rehash that for me um we've kind of just I feel like sprinkled it around a little bit but you want to you want to kind of make that a little more concise yeah um well yeah arteries is the name of our company um it's uh it's technically arteries auctions uh but we're working on the DBA so hopefully it can just be truncated arteries um you know our our mission is is to eliminate the term starving artist that is that is our goal uh so many times I can remember the tropes when I was a kid and I was studying art you know my parents would say well you know you have to study science too because you don't want to be a starving artist um and you know all these artists die broke and they die a popper because their art isn't necessarily taken seriously while they were alive or um people just didn't see the value in it uh or you could have two people who paint identical paintings but uh one of them can speak to it better and that's the one who sells their art the other one doesn't even though they created an equal product um so our goal is to is plain and simple get artists more money for their work um the the biggest problem that exists with the art market is that it hasn't changed in 500 fucking years uh it is you know you have an artist who creates a painting and they try and sell it eventually galleries came all into the mix and dealers and commissions and agents and it has pretty much stayed that fucking way since since the 16th century um and that shit doesn't work anymore um there's it's not okay uh in in the new economy or just the world we live in to say that this artist is worth nothing and that artist is worth millions it's it's it's just it's bullshit there's all of the the money that exists in the art market only exists to feed dealers and feed galleries they don't create the artwork they hardly market it otherwise you know people go to art shows just as much as they go to big concerts um so the there's a very small niche of people that are buying art that are super wealthy um and uh there's an incredibly small number of artists that are making any of that money um and the evidence of how fucking corrupted all is is the fact that the average commission or a dealer or an agent or a gallery is anywhere from 40 to 60 percent and it is mind numbing to me to think that the person who found the person who could who could buy a piece of art is getting 60 percent yeah i just want to say like holy fuck i had no idea the number was anywhere near that it's insane that is just mind-blowing to me like you just you just dropped a bomb on my head it's it's completely nuts and i've had uh the luck of meeting a couple of professional artists in my in my life i can say that i've met uh you know aside from comic book illustrators which i've met a few um but i've met two painters who made a living as painters and one of them uh i was talking to about this concept right when the company was in development and she was like the thing about this that is so helpful is that her dealer only takes one out of every 30 or 40 paintings that she creates because it's the one that her dealer thinks she can market for the right clients and i can't imagine what kind of stress that would put on somebody's life to think okay i'm a painter for a living and i paint 50 fucking paintings over the course of a year and my dealer says oh sorry you're not getting paid this year because i can't market any of your work and that's just shitty um and so the people that are making the money in the market doesn't exist today are not the artists and the people that are getting the art who are buying the product are a very small you know top one percent and that doesn't work anymore at least not for me i i view it as warfare i think that anybody who is passionate about creating art should have a platform on which to sell it uh you know in such a way that they can actually afford or provide themselves with a supplemental income um and that was kind of one of the biggest problems that we had to solve while we developed our platform was how the hell do you um increase the artist's income while at the exact same time decrease the buyer's expense because it's a it's kind of a a conundrum you find yourself in is that the artists who are successful and can make a living off of it today only can because a very small group of millionaires and billionaires are buying it so how do we make it so uh a guy working a minimum wage job could maybe buy a piece of art an actual piece of fine art and original artwork for cheap but also provide a living income for the artist that was the riddle that we set out to solve uh which which we we did twice um the first time we did we found out it was completely illegal and uh so we had to scrap that um it's always fun when you work on developing a business for six months and you go to a lawyer and they're like yeah you can't do this this is completely illegal and that's exactly what happened to us the first time and then we spent a few more months refining and um we've finally found our way i can't go into the specifics unfortunately just because uh we're in we're in development we're building right now and uh i don't want to share too much but i can say that um it it's it's gonna work and uh you know a massive part of the economy we live in now with wages that are not increasing and trades that are being eliminated by technological advancement uh you know the the the idea of oh you have a job that makes you enough money you can live that doesn't exist for the vast majority of people in the united states um which is why things like uber and lift and kickstarter and go fund me and patreon it's the why those exist um and arteries is is kind of an uber for artist in in that sense it in that somebody who wants to make money with their artwork will be able to and it's it's just gonna be dependent on um how much they put out uh how much they can gather attention on social media and and use it to their advantage and if they if they do that they can make a really damn good amount of money um we sort of did a beta test of our system with a tattoo artist um we we told him about it and and shared we disclosed him on how it would work and i'm not kidding you when i say that that this artist believes that he will be able to sell his sketchbook drawings for hundreds of dollars for each page because he knows how to capitalize on the social media following that he has of about 10,000 people um and that's what we really wanted to do was integrate the different APIs from from all the social media so that everything's connected um and that's been really challenging um but yeah we we just really want to provide uh a shopping and a selling experience for art that that hasn't existed um and create a platform that people can use to drive income and be artists because you know you're you're not gonna work in a bank anymore they're gonna fire all the tellers and put in ATMs and they're you're not gonna work in a restaurant they're gonna fire all them and you're gonna order off an iPad uh you know they're just eliminating all of that so we can put people who are passionate about art into a place where they can just be an artist for their living then i'll know that that we've done it right and that's the entire goal um a nice side effect of it is it creates a really good community um it's just it's a great community and it's a community willing to support one another um i had my artwork on display at a gallery and a number of years ago and i didn't sell a single fucking painting um but the gallery charged five dollars to get in and 300 people came uh so i know that if 300 people are willing to pay five dollars uh to see my work and i want a piece of that and i didn't get any um so i know the community is there to support i know the artists are out there and right now it's just a matter of handling the technology and and paying to build it that's one of the fun parts as well we're while we're gathering investors right now we have we have one investor um who's already put up money and we're looking for a couple more uh web development to write code for something that has never existed before is is expensive um but we're getting it and we're constantly getting interest and and just a matter of time really and once we do that and we completely disrupt the archaic way the art market has worked before um we're gonna see some really cool shit we're gonna see some really fucking cool shit and we're gonna archive it and save it and share it and celebrate it and uh it's it's really exciting um and that's where arteries got its name arteries is um artys as in art in the front and arys is a gathering place so its name is a gathering place for art and uh not to mention the stupid stupid hominem of arteries in that it's what flows through our veins you know it keeps us alive um so it's it's kind of long uh we uh are making a statement ourselves yeah so it sounds like you guys want kind of want to be the the platform for any artist who wants to get their work out there for them to jump off of right like you're kind of providing them a way to kind of get out of all the headache of having to deal with the corrupt side of you know the business that's been there for a long time and instead have them go through a kind of a place where they're the focal point right or their interests are kind of what matters not let's say corporate you know money line pockets right mm-hmm yeah that's that's exactly it and um the our you know an artist can go on and and of course upload a painting that they've done and list it for sale and sell it and all of that good stuff um what we've done is created an entirely new method of e-commerce uh of a way to buy something and the way we've done that is her artist is insanely valuable um so that's uh i really wish i could just be like here it is it's so great go look at it um but hopefully within the next couple of months we'll actually outline exactly how it works and put it on the website yeah i i think that would be great and you know what i know you can't talk about too much and i know it's hard to talk about something especially like you said when you're so passionate about you know this what what you've built and you know what you're building and what you're developing and to kind of have this vision you know you want to share it with the world and you're at a point right now where you're kind of like you know like hold a little bit back so i totally understand that but like i would love to see when this you know goes those live and we'll definitely include any links that you want to uh include in our show notes and pass it along to you know listeners because i know there's tons of creative people out there right and i'm sure this is a question that all of them have right like you said you've you've talked with a bunch of different artists you know professional artists amateur artists what have you and you kind of run the gamut on this stuff and like you said everything starts with you know a problem and it's like how do we solve this problem and it sounds like you guys have found a really a great way to do it and it'll be really exciting to see like when that comes you know full circle yeah i'm uh right now anybody can go to arteries.com and just kind of look at what our mission is we have facebook instagram tumblr all of those just look for arteries and it's a rt a r y s and right now we're just kind of sharing art stuff that we like and and kind of gathering you know we want artistic minded people in our corner once we launch the e-commerce side and we just want to make as much money as possible for every fucking artist we find if a kid goes to his parents and says mom dad i want to be an artist uh their response in my future will be um that sounds great you know let's let's go for it and do it and we'll set up an arteries account and we'll get you going um that's that's what i want to hear i just it sickens me that we would ever tell somebody especially somebody younger that they shouldn't express themselves and share their imagination just because it won't make them a living and that to me sucks i think that as a species we're past that uh we've evolved to the point where we don't have to work as people would say um but it that's the goal is is really let's let's fucking get out of that that industrial bullshit where you go to work and you come home and that's it you want to be an artist be a fucking artist i was gonna say you got to make enough money to uh buy some of those austin tacos god so the most i'm from southern california i grew up in southern california and in the morning something you can do in southern california is get a breakfast burrito and they're delicious and i moved to austin and everybody says what the fuck is a breakfast burrito you need to get breakfast tacos and that is all you hear everywhere if you say breakfast burrito people will look at you like you have the measles if you say i'm gonna go to breakfast taco people like oh where tell me where you better try breakfast tacos from torches which by the way are the best breakfast tacos if you're ever out here um but it just blows my mind it is the most inconvenient thing on i can imagine to eat for breakfast is a fucking taco wait so are they you said they're good tacos all right i mean i agree with you like delicious the burrito is a perfect container for all of the breakfast ingredients right because it is pretty much self-contained like there's not much that can fall out of the burrito because you're eating the container as it goes a taco tacos are inherently messy right like you are going to get some somewhere and i don't know there's something about breakfast burritos right yes breakfast burritos is probably kind of everywhere and they're only three dollars and they're delicious and they're spent with eggs and ham and bacon and cheese and potatoes and yeah it's awesome for some salsa on there you've got your self-breakfast but i don't know a taco we get everywhere how do you eat a taco in the car i could eat a breakfast burrito in the car while driving a psa don't eat while driving that's not safe to do but i could do it and a taco i just feel like if i was going to a meeting and i hadn't had breakfast and someone said oh i'll just drive through said mexican food restaurant joint and get a breakfast taco i feel like when i showed to that meeting there's going to be some form of cheese salsa eggs whatever on my attire and i'm going to have to explain i was super hungry i had to go knob on some breakfast tacos yeah there's the tacos thing like i get it but at the same time i feel like there's a degree to which i have to be awake it is much more awake to actually consume a taco without it falling apart all over the place and and and adam i think you put it like perfectly like it's it's like the perfect vessel to like you know transfer uh warm breakfast ingredients to my mouth and wake me up is the burrito so i don't understand that the breakfast taco and like um oh god adam there was a place probably in your stomping grounds as a child um don don't your samarkos that was um god it was uh i think it was called money pit oh they had some of the best breakfast burritos that i can the money pit was like a catch-all place man like they served everything it was like you want a burger at three in the morning like they had you covered granted they weren't open night only 24-7 but yeah like you wanted tacos they had those two they had really good fries if i remember correctly yep good price not a fries there was a speaking of samarkos there's a place i went to and they had the best breakfast burritos was called oscars and the burrito was three dollars and i swear to god that thing was like three pounds it was like a dollar per pound of burrito that you were getting basically because there was just so much stuff but yeah they put eggs and they put like not hash browns you know because some places do hash browns in there and that's just that's not right they put like big chunk potatoes in there and then they put ham and bacon and eggs and the salsa they had was like a really nice puree like hot salsa oh it was so so good oh my gosh like take me back now because if i try to find a breakfast burrito in Santa Cruz it's gonna cost me a twelve dollars b it's gonna be like you know a little bit of eggs some probably hash browns and if i want bacon it'll be extra and it'll be half the size of the one i got you know in samarkos so something california food like especially mixing food they gave you a ton of it and it was always like it was always good it always had flavor and everything up here is bland i'm sorry nothing california but your Mexican food sucks it does it does yeah and you're you're i mean everything you just said is 100 right and like and like what lu uh when lu was uh um confirming what you said about the burrito being the perfect receptacle for breakfast is exactly my point whenever somebody wants to have this debate with me here in austin uh is i if i if i have a breakfast burrito i can do eggs and cheese and bacon and sausage and ham and fucking pancakes if i want i can put whatever the hell i want on it because it's a burrito i wrap it up and i can eat it it's fine tacos the way they compensate for the fact that it's messy is they hardly put anything on it most of the time it's like half of an egg and one strip of bacon or just one link of sausage or one piece of ham you know you have to order five breakfast tacos to be satiated depending on where you go um and if you go to the right places like torches uh you can't close the taco anyway it's literally it's Mexican pizza at that point yeah it's a tostada um but like when people say don't mess with texas uh that's bullshit if you're in austin it's don't mess with tacos because if i even dare say that breakfast burritos are better than breakfast tacos they don't even want to have the discussion with you i feel like this is like instant shutdown like oh no tacos are better than burritos like yeah you can say whatever you want and it is wrong like tacos are better here right then there's only california given there's a giant burrito and bite i don't like it that's probably what would happen that's they would just not like it at this point awesome well i'm glad i've learned a little bit more about the tacos in austin i will uh next time i find myself in austin i'll definitely have to give them a try yes they are delicious but they're not as good as burritos you don't have to travel all the way to austin i think taco bell believe it or not had breakfast tacos they are very different i do i don't frequent the taco bell um i'm just making a jab at you know okay yeah breakfast tacos might be so great but if taco bell is doing breakfast tacos you know they can't be amazing i don't even think taco bell went on like the breakfast burrito like uh breakfast burritos are too perfect i don't think we can we can uh top that but i don't know maybe we can try taco i i think that's pretty easy for us fast food mexican is just like a it's a disaster waiting to happen but okay fast food mexican food like no that's that's different right because all mexican food is fast food in southern california right like you go to any insert you know three you know four letters burritos uh in southern california you go to any burritos and uh it was all fast food right you'd order it and be done in like three minutes because all the carnus on is there they just want to start to throw it all together and give it to you you're totally correct about that but like there's a there's a huge difference from any burritos to you know chain taco bell like no we're not we're not doing there oh so i'm saying like fast food it's all fast so you're just talking chain food you know chain restaurant fast food corporate america fast food which yes i understand your point there but i'm just saying that you know you could get a three dollar in two-minute you know breakfast burrito in southern california and you can't get that anywhere else or not that i found this is very true this is very true well i think we should uh probably put the lid on this thing and uh erin do you want to uh go ahead and uh plug your uh company's website one more time for us i will but not after i tell you guys how fun it was to talk to you and uh i i really appreciate you letting me ramble on occasionally um but i really want to say thanks for having me on and i miss working with you guys i miss seeing you guys every day um and you know i'll probably be out in california i'll probably be in adam's neck of the woods in a month and i'll probably be in your neck of the woods lu in uh in a few months hopefully so i really look forward to that but that should on the calendar so uh hell yeah well you'll go take me to get a shitty breakfast burrito um since it's northern california um yeah um but yeah uh the uh company is uh it's called arteries and you can go to arteries.com and uh it'll tell you a little bit about what we're what our mission is and our goal um on there you can of course go to any of our social media uh platforms one of the things that you can do on the site as well is uh is join early you can go up and basically join our mailing list so that you're on up there for updates when we do a beta release um and things like that uh if anybody was to go on to the website and reference uh this podcast creative genius in the little message then um we're gonna put together some special stuff for any early adopters when we launch so anybody goes on arteries.com signs up and mentions creative genius we'll get you something special once we launch and uh yeah add us on facebook and uh twitter's and instagrams and all that good shit and send us your artwork we love to share the artwork of people who follow us awesome yeah thank you it's been a pleasure talking to you I mean I love talking to you you know in person every day and like you said it's been a while since we've been able to have a chat so it's great to hear your voice again and hopefully you know this isn't a one-time thing you know you're always more than welcome to come on and let us know how arteries is doing and give us more updates oh yeah I absolutely will mm-hmm yeah I look forward to it and uh I look forward to you uh come in uh back to the southern california and that's having a proper breakfast burrito damn right i gave you pictures so i can dream so i'm so excited about it uh well we'll have all the uh links to errands company and uh all their social feeds in the show notes and uh you can find us on twitter at cgfmcast or online at creative geniuscast.com right on can we use anything else no okay just out with awkward silences it's the best way to make items at a job more miserable or it would be really fun to go out on the awkward discussion about the awkward silence at the end he'll probably do it don't worry yeah tada easy is that we're recording woohoo uh it's funny because whenever i have to line up the tracks usually i'll say go and so then i see the the track start and then i'll hear me say woohoo and then lu says wooh we're recording and so i love adam's woo it's so like meh it's like we're recording it's like it's like a sad it's the saddest woo it's like he's not dead he just said woo well that was uh the air escaping from the folds of his fat did she talk about tacos no okay then ask me about tacos later on all right no i'm gonna put that in the that's gonna yeah that's gonna that's gonna be fun to work in there yeah minor that's garyon about tacos where's the top of the lookie