It's a very low barrier to get into the wrong spot. That's crazy. We're committed to doing the daily talk show for 10 years. Hi guys.
I'm going to put it in to come under. I just like to check the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story. It's out right?
Come on, let's go. It's the daily talk show episode 10, 12. Oh, he's happening. What day is it?
I don't know where I am. It is Thursday. The week is flown, isn't it? Yeah.
It's gone. One thing, no one you read shouldn't get a bit spoke. Not spoke, but you just start having an out of body experience, realizing how irrelevant you are in the scheme of the universe. When you don't have a podcast.
No, exactly. Exactly. No, no, no. How's this for headline?
NASA spacecraft Voyager 1 detects persistent hum beyond our solar system. Have you heard the sound I always would hate that? It's a bit of an impost. It is a frequency that might not be.
Like they may have manipulated the frequency so it can be played back and heard because it is like this. It might be different to our use. But the spacecraft, what's a few things. This spacecraft has been floating.
There's no one in it, don't worry. It's been it got launched in 1977. They thought this thing was going to last like four or five years was built to last four or five years. It's fucking still there 43 years ago.
And it's the opposite of the daily day. This thing, yeah, this thing's got fucking stamina, dude. It is gone beyond the solar system. So it took 20 or something to get to the other side of the solar system.
How are they communicating? How are they communicating? I think with the rocket. I think they have a good ambient connection.
I don't know. It's some satellite. This is what blows my mind. How do we not know some things?
How can't we cue a cancer? But we can send a fucking spaceship to the other side of the solar system and the technology lasts 43 years. And we're still picking up signals and sending back to us. Have you ever thought like, because I saw the headline, I was like, to be honest, if an astronaut said, oh yeah, there's a hum in space and it wasn't a headline.
Like I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Like it doesn't mean anything to you about the hum thing. Just that it just has more questions than anything. Yeah.
Where's it coming from? How's it? How's it? You're on the microphone?
Yeah, sorry. Who is creating it and is an alien? Like what is it some other species? Like it's crazy dude.
Yeah. When you start looking at that type of content, it can definitely play with your mind a little bit. Yeah, I don't mind it though. Because then it's like, what is it all mean?
Yeah, what's the experience here? Audio. Last night I was playing hard with Bodhi. What does that mean?
We're just immersed in play. And the thing about children is that they want to play a lot. Like a lot of kids, like if you told, like if you came up to a kid and said, let's go and do like whatever their thing is. So, everybody loves cars, he loves, you know, easy little imagination.
Like when is this? Or some kid might like a guy outside or playing a game board game, something, but they're very in the moment with it. I'm thinking like the opposite of adults. Like I've watched myself and I'm not, and I have in the past, been playing, but not in the play.
Who's that guy? Remember we were hearing about him? He's like, he'd written some self-help book or something. He's like, he does play the like hours of focus play with his kid.
It was that I think. This was on the podcast early days. We're talking about it. There's a guy Charlie Hoenn, I think.
And that's not Charlie Hahnem, who just loves. No, Charlie. He used to be the assistant for Tim Ferriss. Yeah, maybe.
There's a picture of like a kid, I think, with a baseball glove or whatever. It's like a life of play. That's like a life of play. It's all about play.
But it is. What I find it, there's a correlation between things like meditation and anything you do. So this is where the meditation stuff I do is like trying to take the practice outside of the formal practice, the form of practice sitting on a mouse or fucking cushion, whatever, listening. But then outside of that, having the discipline to stop and try and actually point your attention and awareness through something.
Which you see how it's like, as you get older, your mind just starts getting more cluttered. There's more things you're thinking about. But he's not thinking about the hum from the other space. He's not thinking about his podcast finishing up.
He's just thinking about Hot Wheels. It's quite a simple existence. But I think that's the appeal of golf in all series. That's like, today when I was there, like I had a lesson.
And it's all about thinking less about. And so the thing is, if you think about it, what you're doing is you're trying to make good contact with the club head on the ball. Like it's a very simple existence. And the thing is, which I think this is very true to my personality, he's like, you're, you're trying too hard to have a good swing.
But that's not actually a good, like I'm going up and down and trying to control the club head. And so the idea is that if you imagine the bit of the club, like, you know, the head of the club, the bottom of the club, you want to get it into the middle with the ball. The counterintuitive thing is that the more, if you try and force it too much, if you try and aim it all up, it doesn't work. But if you can just trust the process of the swing.
So the example being, I got a compliment where I, he said, oh, can you just swing the golf club? Like it like softball, like it like a baseball swing. So I do it. He said, have you played?
Was that like table? He said, you can tell the idea being that you don't think about like when it comes to table or baseball or anything like that. You don't think about a bunch of the things that you can get trapped into with golf with golf. You're like a, highly technical golf is more technical than table.
But the interesting thing is that is the misconception of it in regards to it's actually about just getting that swing and it's got like getting too bogged down in. Okay, my feet are here. I'm going to put my pressure on here. It's actually like it's like throwing a ball right.
You intuitively know how to throw a ball. But that's from when you're young, if you'd been playing golf since you were, well, actually you haven't been, but there's some kids that wouldn't think about any of that. Exactly. And so they are in short surfing.
I don't think about how I'm going to get myself up to stand up to go when the wave comes. But beginners are probably like, yeah, one, two beat hands up. Yeah, because you need to go through the paces. Yeah, the podcast, you early days were thinking way more about how the structure and how you'd hit it.
But it's amazing we've scripted every episode of this. Actually, I just left. And this is where that bit I wrote for you coming, just coming to say the bit that I was wanting. G'day.
Sorry about the microphone. So just is typing on a computer and there's a little bit of annoying sound. But you know what, we're showing podcasts. But then she criticized me so hard with how I announced it.
Yes. Yeah, go on. Just what's the line? Yeah, what's the line?
You need to deliver it clearly. I don't know what he was talking about. Was it listening? Yeah.
So TJ was just talking about the scripted stuff. Thanks, Josh. You know, and then. Yes.
I said we've scripted every episode of the podcast and then I said, can you come in with a line I wrote for you? Oh my God. I'm so dumb. I thought you actually had a line for it.
You're extending the joke. Is that what you did? Yeah. They actually thought that just had a line and I was pissed off that she didn't remember it.
No, Josh. I it was just a real it was like yesterday when you just randomly went into telling people. Sorry about that. I can't see your face.
Just it's almost like Wilson from a show. What was that called? Home improvement. My dad's right.
I think like to think of himself as a bit of a Tim Allen. I do like Tim Allen. Tim Allen's a great actor. Underrated, do you think?
He's like played. I just all I know that very problematic nowadays. Yeah. Yeah.
Why? Just probably like nothing that wouldn't turn you off. Like it, but yeah, I think he's like slightly controversial on some stuff. Yeah.
But it's the removing an element of you. So you know, the idea of a try hard to remember being a kid. We ever caught looking at one. You ever know?
So the thing is now isn't called to try it. So in Australia, I don't know about gromks around the world. If you've heard that phrase, a try hard. It's funny.
It's funny. What would the American? I mean, it's probably closer to being try hard in America than it'd be the translation in Italy or like well, it's probably sound heaps nicer. You know, but you really want to are you thinking about moving to Italy?
I feel like there's a lot of Italian things. I mean, we're having New Yorkie today. Yeah. I love if I was to learn a language, go Italian and then go French and Spanish.
It's just a Russian after yesterday. No, that was what actually I'd want. I'm talking about what language I'd like to. Yeah.
Yeah. What language I'd like to speak because it sort of ties in nicely with your accent. Yeah. You look Italian as well.
We we. That's French. No, so on the try hard thing, it's clearly like in Australia, if you say you're a try hard. It's not a good thing.
Is that you think of try hard back in the day? What would explain to me? Explain what a try hard is in your eyes. So I think that if you just look at the phrase versus what means, I think there's a distinction.
So I think a try hard culturally, a try hard is someone who is. I think that he's the details. I think that someone that maybe is trying hard optically to look a certain way. Yeah.
So externally, they're trying to project a certain external appearance. They're trying hard to do that. They buy all the gear for the thing, but don't really care about this. But the thing is, one more excuse, a try hard.
Was a little bit more toxic because it was like, if you were just giving it a crack, if you're actually just a little bit out there or doing something different, people could call you. I was called a try hard. And if you think about it, I was like, I was like trying hard, which I don't think that's what they were. No, I think the young kids is the toxic.
I know it's toxic, but it's more around like you're a derp. Like you're a there's something else. There's another ingredient beyond the trying of trying hard at something. What maybe it is a try hard someone that is not naturally good at something, but they're giving it a crack.
Yeah, which one you paid it like it's really sad, is it? Young kids are saying that. Do you want to know the real definition? Yeah, I love that.
A person usually of little talent who tries hard to succeed, especially through imitation, usually to gain fame or popularity, a person who is perceived as putting too much effort into something recreational, such as a game. Yeah, that's pretty much nailed it. Yeah, it's it's interesting because it is nuanced because it could change. It's not fixed, but I think it's a bit of an individual.
Yeah, it's the type of person. So I wasn't called to try hard, but why? I was trying hard. I was trying hard at the bolder.
Maybe it felt more maybe you looked more the part of what you're trying to do. So for instance, it's not nice either way to try hard. I haven't called something to try hard. It's a real sort of immature.
If you're trying hard with podcasts, good. That's actually a positive try hard. You've tried harder. You've had a whole day, like 18 hours or whatever since our episode.
So you should be full of something like that. So you should sort of reconcile all your thoughts and other things. Any changes or think like this is what I love specifically about this format and why I think we gravitated to it so much is we say something one day, then we think about it in the evening and then we come back the next day and we're like, I actually don't believe anymore or he's more context. Well, but you're totally right.
Nothing I don't believe from yesterday. But we have in the past on that, we believe one thing tomorrow, I might want to learn Spanish is my first language because it might just be more applicable if I wanted to move to Mexico. You know, there's lots more integration with Spanish than Italian. No, I'm not going to tell it.
Love it. Lovely comments. Thank you for all the comments on Instagram. And so when you see the celebration happening, yeah, I think a lot of people who might be in the comments might not listen to the show.
It's like it is a different way to say that because I think that some of them and you know, tapped in all the time, they might have been there for the journey. And that's what they're there for. You what you realize is people are there for the journey beyond necessarily the thing, so the podcast. Yeah.
So they may have once listened, but then they just dig dig the, dig the, dig the, the mission and then the supporters of the mission, not saying any judgment to that, but it's nice to see people we've never heard of before or people who like, you don't know who have been listening. So there's that there's the people who I probably know aren't listening, but as supporters. And that's awesome. Because that's a part of the pie.
People who I don't know that have been listening, but haven't been commenting that say, well done. And so that is nice seeing that seeing that love. Yeah. On YouTube as well.
Some other ones on YouTube, especially YouTube, the people that you don't know, because a lot of people don't comment. A lot of people are passive listeners or viewers, especially on YouTube. Yeah. You know, so it's really lovely.
Thank you. If someone came to today, it's a terrible time for it, but they said, I'm thinking about starting a podcast. Yeah. What would you say?
Go for it. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Any words of wisdom at this point or sort of insight, like you've done over a thousand episodes, just even top level, like what's intuitively?
What, where do you go? Start. Like, yeah, I mean, how many conversations have you had about starting the podcast? If you've been talking about it for a while, it's probably a good time to get it going.
You don't have to be ready. Don't feel like what you're going to put out the first day, the 100th episode will be what it will be like in the future. It's a journey. And so it reminds me it's good to, um, uh, it's good to Derek.
It's got a great studio, castaway studios, does podcasts and stuff. And he gets a lot of people coming in saying they want to do a podcast. And he said that the other day someone said, Oh, you know, I made a a mission. I want to start a podcast.
Um, yeah, I think we're going to be Joe Rogan or anything. And yeah. It's good. Yeah.
No, I think it's most people aren't going to be Joe Rogan. Yeah. But maybe they need to say that. Maybe that's they're saying that because they, there's a pressure that inside that they think that they have to end up somewhere like Joe Rogan.
It doesn't everyone's on their own trip. And so, but you don't know what that is until you do your own thing. Something might really work. And there's a bunch of like the thing about Joe Rogan that he's great is that he actually talks about how that show wasn't what he thought it was going to become.
He did it with his mate. Like, you know, it was early. It was a very early adopter of that stuff in respects that like looking at their video set up years ago, like that was harder back then. That wasn't like now you can use your laptop and plug in a microphone and have video of you and someone pretty easily.
Yeah. Like that was harder back then. And so he pushed through. What about you get a reward if you push through over the years?
Something will happen. What is that? Something that I don't know. What do you think most people's biggest fear is with podcasting?
I don't know what to say. Yeah. Nothing to say. But maybe it's true, but you won't find out unless you do it.
And the biggest fear is, um, who am I doing with? How do I do it? Do I? I can't do it by myself.
Like all these are all beliefs. There's probably something I can only do about myself. I couldn't do it with somebody else. Mm hmm.
You know, and so yeah. Do you think do you have a different perspective on failure? Do you think from before we started today? Um, not really.
What, because it failed a lot of times. I think if you're worried about if, yeah, I've never really thought the failure. It's thought about the failure thing. What does that mean?
What does that what does failure mean to you? When do you know you failed? I think it's this elusive thing that's not very clear. But I think a lot of people, including ourselves, they've put a lot of emphasis on it.
It's almost like it's a, um, it can be something that can keep you going or it can be something that can hold you back. So, you know, speaking to friends where they're going to think like they're at a transitional period of their life and like when you break it all down, the biggest fear they have is failing. And that's like, okay, well, what is failing? Failing is failing.
Um, you know, this is in some regards a failure from with a certain lens. Um, but I don't, yeah, I don't think you, if you, if you haven't done stuff in your life, maybe then there's a, you have a high fear of failure, which would be something needing to work through to get started. Like what's in failure is a lot of thinking, thinking about what it means for you, what others are thinking. But if you, yeah, if you can get to a point where you're not as deeply connected to the outcome as you may have once been before or what, yeah, it's, it's a weird one because it's not like an easily say we failed.
I don't think that. I don't think there's a, like what, when you think about the podcast specifically, what were the, did the fears change for you over the course of the last three years? Or what do you think the biggest sort of fears were for you? Um, it's not really, I mean, I don't, I haven't used that term fear in my mind.
What is it? What relates more? Um, I mean, I've, I've kind of, it's more, mine is more about what I'm capable of. And yeah, it's not for you though.
It's not fear. What is it? Um, yeah, I don't know. It's, um, uncertainty.
No, I mean, it's just doing the thing that I am enjoying. Like, but then so the thing is what you learn is what I've learned, sorry, is, um, the thinking that goes on in your mind isn't necessarily the truth. And so it's a balance and a juggling act of when do you connect? And if you go deep into it, the thoughts you're thinking, connecting them to your identity is the trap is the ego is where pain fucking exists.
Because then if anything comes under attack that you've formed into your identity, there's a lot of pain that resides there because that's, you just constantly caught in it. So there's this thing of like doing and then feeling disconnected from it in a way where you're disconnected from the attachment to it. And so, which is, I, I, the struggle is, um, how do you, how, how do you do anything then if you sort of get closer to truly believing that stuff that we're not our thoughts and the identity we hold and think about ourselves is just all thought. And you know, and so it's like, so there's a version of a, of a type of person that is so enlightened or so sort of detached from story and reality.
I find personally hard to communicate with, right? Where it's like communication needs to be based on some sort of foundational understanding of truth or that there can be stories or there is that sort of thing. So I think that when you talk about stories, I think we're, because it's such a natural position for me to be in, which is thinking at all through like thinking, like the day we talk to, like even those montages that GB puts together for me, that's like a visual representation of the experience. I mean, like when I, when I think about what we are doing and we're doing, it was so, so much was connected into those dots.
Um, and I think that obviously there's some negativity to an attachment to that. But then there's also, I mean, it's, it's negativity and the attachment to what that means for you as an individual. So there's the journey. So I think this is a thing, someone can be fucking in a cave completely detached from any story, meaning and thought doesn't, doesn't, and then there's the version where you can go through life and have that balance.
I don't know if that's the right word, but I'll have the, um, have the experience that is less powered by that, less powered by the stories. They still happen. You can't, I mean, what about like an athlete that's, that's, um, going to the Olympics? What would have, what would have version because I can imagine say if I was an athlete going to the Olympics, if you can, there is the, in the next Olympics, I don't know if it's always been that way.
So if he's, um, um, also, um, uh, what's the dance, where you spin on your head? Break dancing. That's the, um, the, the, so the, it has that chair for you, Jess. It's like, you can talk the Mikey is on.
It's actually more than you talk. I know. It's very, it's very creaky. Um, is that one of the shit chairs?
How much we selling that? We'll teach you. I think it's done. What have you been the table to be on?
I think it's how it is. No, so the, so I think about like, as from an athlete perspective, the aim is you're going for gold. Yeah. Yeah.
I think so. There's, there's, there's, there's story and that's like a, it's this weird. So for instance, it's about families when you get married, marriage or like long-term relationships, these are all stories. It's like, it's all made up in a lot of ways, but it's like, I'm going to, I'm going to have a family.
I'm going to do all of this. Like that is a story. And so there is stories are important. And it's actually stories is what the makes the whole world go by.
But you, I mean, you've kind of referencing. So I never thought to myself, I'm going to have kids. I'm not going to have kids. I just didn't really touch it.
I was like, I didn't have too much connection to either. And so the story happens and unfolds with what, what, how life unfolds. The athlete thing, there is huge advantage to being captured by ego, identity, identification with your narrative, your thought to achieving, look at some of the most, if the metric is gold, if the metric is success money, there are some maniacs in this world that at all costs. And all costs.
And I for them, what is like, what is it for you? Do you think? Well, so if you don't go out thinking, I want kids or anything like that, then what, like, what is the, what's the, not even the goal, goal seems to sort of sterile or like, like, what, what's the point? Yeah.
I mean, what is the point? Do you have any thoughts? Um, the point, what's the point for you? Like, just, it's so hard to speak for anyone else.
Like, what's the looking to ask on you? But what is the point? No, but because for me, I take so much in the story of this, like, and you've, you've seen the positives and the negative side from me of the story of, how are we going to do this and this? And it's like that, and it's like, that's served as it hasn't served as.
Um, but I, the reason I ask is because I want to, want to understand or get that perspective, the operating system for me, that just to have everything based in a story is so strong. That's like, it's someone con like, but yeah, you just, you know, actually, the thing is, so, for instance, when, uh, when we've spoken, you're like, I haven't worked out exactly what after, you know, post show, you know, post all this stuff, it looks like this. My thing is, I'm like, he's not ready to tell us his story, like what he wants to do yet. But like the, the, the weirdness is that I can't like my, yeah, I understand that's my fault.
Yeah. I just assume that's like, oh, you're not, like, you know, but you're not telling me because it's like, happened. You're constantly, but I understand that ridiculous. Yeah.
But that's because I'm like, I can't like so the idea of, um, yeah, like all that stuff. Like the kid stuff, I think is a good example because it's like, there's that version of, you know, just like, oh, like it wasn't really planned. It just happened. And that was a thing.
And all that sort of thing, which I think is so, it's so so far. And so I want to talk less. I want to understand like, what is the, what do you think that is? Is that always been, do you think you've always operated from that place?
Yeah. I think I probably look out. I'm probably, I think just with a bunch of the things I consume and the practice I'm doing, I'm just looking at where I wear that is taking me. So where that where the story is actually taking that noise guys.
It's not the office getting knocked down. It's just some construction across the road, potentially and maybe not. It's a chair. It's a gutter.
Yeah. It's a gutter. It's a cedar lift and they're fixing a gutter. I did hear a dripping drain all like yesterday.
You think it's related to it. I think they're fixing it. I think it was coming in rusty. Okay.
Thanks a lot. And so the so. But yeah. So, so you're the, I can go to what I'm going to say.
You were the guy who had a vision board of TV presenter role where you're fucking cut out. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, so going from seven years ago.
Yeah. I actually, I don't know. I don't know where to land because I think there is a lot of suffering that comes from the attachment to these stories. And so when I see, so when I'm, when I'm observing what's happening.
So if I think about, okay. For the future, what does it look like? What is it like? There is a version.
I'm not saying don't think this through. You're asking something three days in to have an answer for the future, which well, it's not. I think like the, and this is part of it. It's like people don't have to have an answer.
There is not a, I think that the, the, the consideration is it's like the where we landed was for me personally, actually two and a half years of thinking, right? Like the thinking just, just, it's a good story. That's a good story for retrospectively looking at it. But isn't that like, are we always like, we're always thinking, right?
We're in context and we're trying to understand it's not like one day we wake up and say, we're going to finish doing this thing. And it's like, I don't know what the future holds like. But this is why I'm not saying that it's wrong. What I'm saying is I find it interesting.
What is the difference between that version of like the, so I think there's probably an operating. What I'm seeking is to try and operate more from the present than I am with my mind for the future or looking at what, what has happened in the past and what that is meaning to me and my identity. So I look at how present I am with Amy with my, my son, with what I'm doing. The activities I'm doing, what I'm not doing.
And and it's and yes, there's importance to seeing what's ahead and what moves you want to make. But there is an also an operation from a more present existence that can move you forward. It's not for everyone. I don't think that's for you.
You said last week creativity comes from destruction. I think the opposite creativity can come from when there's a lot less noise and peace and you're more present. That's the complete opposite. Yeah.
And so that's cool. Yeah. I think that the the creativity, the destruction is about. You need to break stuff to make new things.
That's the story. That's your story. I don't think that's necessarily true. I don't think you have to smash a part break.
Like that's not necessarily how it needs to happen. Just like someone who operates from a high place of anxiety that gets fire in their business isn't doesn't have to do it that way. There is options. There are multiple versions that work that works for something like yours.
Like you know, that's worked for him. And yeah. And so yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is this is a is that a is that a new because like talking about the practice or whatever, if we go from episode one to where you are now, there's a huge amount of growth for you in regards to understanding what your practice is, what you your prioritization looks like, all of that sort of stuff.
So is that is the story stuff? Is that developed thinking based on these experiences? Yeah, I definitely think so. Because it's like if you're not observing the story and you're just existing in it, there's a level of operating from, you know, that sort of you could say ego, but it's which is a negative because we all have it.
But if you're if it's consuming you and there's not a zoomed out lens to question all these things, what it even means is that it's like it is just an experience. It is thought like all these things. There is another place to operate from, which I feel is what I'm more moving towards. And so that looks like, I mean, it's not life's not about everything being measured, but what's the awareness, like how do what's the daily awareness practice to make sure that you're in alignment with what you where you want to go?
And even what you want to go, what you the there's so much thought in that. A place of being present and awareness can bring the fruits. There's another, there's another, you know, which like I'm not there yet. But I was saying it's about nothing.
That's right. That's where I land with these conversations is it's like the. And this is just because we think differently, which is fine. But what I'm trying to understand is it's like, and maybe that's the biggest thing.
Maybe I try too hard to understand. Maybe it's like everyone's on their own journey. Don't worry. Don't worry about it.
But I think that has been this conversation right now is really the battle that you and I have tried to understand, like, you know, it's the pulling nature of me, but wanting to, you know, understand what the future is like. And then it is the fucking just show up and I show up stuff as well. I see how much pain there is in thinking about the future, like to when it consumes you. All like all pain mentally, a lot of it is because we're worried about what's happening next and what's up, what's in the future, or we're thinking about what the fuck we did in the past and how it should have been different.
If there just is presence, whether it's for 10 minutes, because you will be swept back into it, that is there's peace in that that changes the operating system at which when you come back into it and it just and it deenergizes a lot of the connection to the stories and the identity. That's the practice. I'm not saying I fucking do it perfectly, but that's my goal for the moment. So using that, which makes me a better father, a better husband, a better business partner, like all these things.
I don't think I would have survived the last couple of years if I wasn't doing that. I think about myself fucking five years ago and how I wasn't. It's like a different fucking head I had on me, a different mind. I don't know what I would have been doing each day.
When I wasn't about them. Vision boards, fucking what I'm doing, what I'm probably looking like, all these things that are just if you can't break the spell of the thought, you are the thinking and that is your identity and that is operating from a place of ego. Like that's it swallowing you all up and I've done a lot of that in my life. And I see the trappings of it.
I see the dangers of it. I see the other side to another way of operating that is much more peaceful and feels like achievement. How do you make decisions if you're not thinking about the future? Well, I'm not saying you don't ever think about these things.
So what's the distinction? Don't live in the future. So then not living in the future. Like I think that there's a...
It's a painful existence living in the future when you are only ever in this moment now. So for me, I lived in the future based on, for us we were in a position where it felt like we hadn't worked it all out yet, which you never work it all out. But the thinking around the future is what are the things that we can do? It's not about like, I can't fucking wait until it's what can we do now to move things in a position that helps you in the future.
Like if you go to buy a house, for instance, like there is a day where you are buying a house, or there's things that you do where it doesn't serve you right now, but it will serve you in the future. And so that's what I'm trying to work out is I think that what you're describing with the vision board stuff, that's one extreme of what that meant for you. But I think that there is a version in between where you are now and where you were, which is stories, stories are powerful, connectors, and a way of synthesizing this fucked up world. Like being able to think that the criticism, which is fair on me, is that optimism bias or like my ability to have a situation and be like, create a good story out of it.
And if story then impacts. So that's my go to as well. But I also just understand that there's something else other than that, which is the experience. And so if you're, so wouldn't experience that, if you're super negative about your experience, it's highly productive to be having optimistic lens on it.
I'm not super negative about my situation. So I'm speaking for myself. I understand if I wanted to start carving this positive story right now about everything in the future, that is cool too. But I'm okay because I'm not over here suffering in my situation.
Because I don't feel like I need to at this moment. That's why I think that what I always find interesting is it's like it does feel like it which is also completely fine. Like it doesn't feel great or it's like it does, it's not put like there is suffering involved. And so I think that that's the bit that I struggle with because I can't have friends helping you or talking and that sort of thing.
If you're like with that sort of like you're like, we're both suffering with the change, which is fine. But yelling out. You might be like, I don't think I'm so this is the thing. I think that like I'm suffering.
So there's more of a, there's an intensity to you at the moment with the changes that are happening, which makes sense. And I would be showing it in other ways too. But I think that bringing that energy and saying there's no suffering, it's all good. I'm asking you, is there is there?
I think that I don't know. I can't answer that. That's what you're saying when you're saying there's suffering. You're speaking for yourself.
What's the one I'm seeing is a, is a, is a mate who doesn't want to talk. But this is you projecting, you're thinking onto me. I'm saying how you're making me feel. Which is, yeah.
You do not mean. And so the thing is that like when you are in existence in a partnership. But that has been like that in its essence has been about a lot of this podcast. Like the effects that it is on you but from external people that aren't you.
So you're saying you have no control over a situation. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. Because that's how you do.
You do have control. When other people are feeling a certain way. It doesn't have to fucking sweep kick you under that you're then gone based on someone else. I think the thing is real.
And so this is where, I don't think I would have survived the last couple of years. If I'd had that approach in this relationship and this environment. Yeah. Because that's where it can't, like, yeah, it can't, if external people are the problem.
And the thing that rattles you, there's another version to that. I think that we are all living beings that are trying to work out what life is. Of course. But there's no just two operating systems that are different.
So I think it's not understanding which you don't need to. But when you layer it like you're suffering over there. Well, this is the thing is I can't understand how the, you know, you not think you're okay. Yeah.
I'm okay. And so I think that that's like, I think the hard bit is, and this is, this is the hardest bit to reconcile is it's like when you have friends or you're, and you feel like you're feeling an energy or you're feeling like things are okay. And the. We've had times mentally than this.
Yeah. And so this is where I think when it's like you stop something, it's like people see and say, are you okay? Like, you know, there are, is there a, is there an element though that could just be, so someone at the service station asks, how are you? You don't need to give them full speed.
Thanks, man. Yeah. Is there, is there an element where I take it down to, like, is spending two or three years, like, or, you know, four, when you consider outside of the daily talk show, we spent a lot of time together. We spent a lot of, and, and, and it's interesting.
I think that this is such an, I don't know where I land with it. I think that, like, I know the learning. Because you're looking at how you operate and I operate and there's the clash of, I'm not doing it like you because, and then that doesn't make sense for you. And it doesn't make sense for me.
How you, like, why are you approached something like that? And so that's where it's how do you have productive, conversate, like, so when, when, when individuals impact other individuals, when you're part of a team or partnership or relationship or marriage, manage you, manage you, manage the stories you're telling yourself, manage how you're connecting dots, how you're self-managing, how you're taking care of yourself. Like, that's all you have. That's all you have.
So, but so there's the self-management and then there's like, communicating for the purpose of progress. Where does that, where does that, because I understand that it's not about having these crazy outcomes or to change anyone or to, to do all that sort of thing. But there is a, when you're coexisting, you co-collaborate, when you're doing all this stuff, co-creating, I feel like I, and, you and I both agree that I feel the room, I feel how the people in the room are feeling. And the thing is that I think that the feedback is that I shouldn't allow that to negatively impact me.
And I just don't think that I can ever get to that point. I think you can do it. I think you totally can. I don't think I ever want to be there.
Because I think that that for me, that's where relationships, where empathy, where... I don't think it is though. I totally think there's a complete other operating system that exists. What is it?
Just not having it toughen up. Not at all. Not at all. Why are those, nothing about toughening up?
It's nothing about toughening up. Yeah. Then how would you describe it? It's not an attack on your identity.
It's not an attack to Josh as an existing thing, when other people are. Like, this is... So I think that that's where it gets misses. Like, I'm not saying, hey, you know, like there's certain people that will say, oh, like, oh, what have I done wrong?
Oh, like, you know, they'll just keep it like, I feel like I've done that more annoying than the fuck it's like, mate, you haven't done anything wrong. I'm just in shit mode, but you're actually pissing me off now. I'm not saying that it's purely like, friend to friend business partner to business partner. How do you communicate?
And I think that what I really want out of all of this, and I've got to have a detachment because I can't tell you or expect for you to communicate the way that I want to be communicated to. But just, I would love the tools and understanding to how to... So you might not be saying... You see the...
You see the... It's two operating systems, it's existing. I'm like, the dots don't need to be connected. Like, this is the opposite of what you do.
So those tools aren't natural. The ask is too big for a lot of those things. And so that's really, really hard. And it's the success of this podcast has been based on the differences a lot of the time.
And I think that that's what's made it. Yeah, exactly. And so, but you don't need to be more like me. I don't need to be more like you.
It's like, that's not our job to... It's not your job to fucking change me. It's not my job to change you. And so they're about different...
And so yeah, is there a possible tool kit to make it less painful for two individuals that are so different to communicate and to understand and to empathize? I mean, I don't have an answer. I don't have... I don't know.
I mean, you could say things... But all then comes back to like my operating system. So it's like fucking meditate more dude. That's such a dumb thing.
You're like, think more dude. Think things through. Think about the future. Like these aren't productive things.
But they would be if we wanted each other to think like each other. Or to operate from a place that we're both operating from. Yeah. And so that's...
That's a hard thing. It's so complex. Because it's not like I think that the answer I don't think is that everyone thinks the same. But I think there's a way of coexisting anyway.
But that is it. But it's also navigating things. It's also... The tools are when you and I have some experience.
How do I not let that fucking get to me? How do you say something to me that could be taken as like a real slap in the face? Vice versa. And not let that hold as much energy and stay as long.
Like these are all things like that are tools. And so I have a bunch of these things that I know work in coexisting with somebody who communicates with you. Or maybe it's like I'm trying to feel those things. I'm not saying it's not...
There's no judgment in it. It's just like if you nut down to what is it? What is that feeling inside? Not being that feeling inside.
So what is it? Not how am I it? And operating from that place of that's it. And that's swallowing you up.
And then what is the energy there? I wonder if it's in the half life. I wonder if it's like the... There could be a numbness to that approach where it's like it almost feels like...
No, I think it's a complete awareness that the feeling's there. And but it's a... Where does it work in regards to the self awareness and then an awareness of how you make other people feel? So that idea of not taking on how other people feel.
Where does then the awareness of how you're making people feel fit into the operating system? But there's an awareness... Self awareness awareness is layered. You can understand and think the self is, no, I get myself.
I understand myself. But then that's a... There could be a layer of attachment to the self that you think you know. And then a version maybe in a different place, which is observing that awareness that you have on yourself.
And then there could be another version of awareness. So it's operating from... I mean, this is like... This is the things that I listen to and read and sort of feel like I'm understanding more to these layers.
And how does it help you? I think it's helped a bunch. I think it's helped exponentially. Exponentially?
Exponentially? Exponentially? Yes, exponentially? Yes, sure.
I wanted to go upstairs halfway through all of that. You got something to do? No, it was just painful. Really, why?
I just feel like you both come. You always come from just two completely different perspectives. And it's hard to watch because I can see what you both need, but you both... You're arguing over...
What are you arguing? We're just pointing out different perspectives. It's just kind of you for me. You both always come at things so differently.
But I think in terms of communication, like what do you need from each other? That's what you're not talking about. I think that's what the key is. You're both talking about how each other communicates.
But you're not saying, Tommy, what I need from you is this. And Tommy, you're not saying that to Josh as well. Like you might need a break to process what's going on with everything at the moment. And where you want to take your next step and you might want to be present.
Josh, you might want to look to the future, but you're not talking about that with each other. You're expecting each other to know. Well, I think there's a respect. What we've spoken about is that there's an element of when you're trying to communicate, you and I trying to work out how communication styles can be potentially adjusted to better work in the circumstance, like for one another.
January 2020, we had a specific conversation where it's like, you were very clear, which I appreciate, which is like, I don't want to talk so much about all of this future stuff or fucking all of that type of thing. I just want to like head down, do stuff. And I want to be talking about it. I don't want to be strategizing or thinking or dreaming.
I just want to fucking do it, which I understand. But there was like, there was also the other version from episode 100 to 500, where it was all about that. It was where could it go? What could we, what could we be doing?
Yeah, it's slightly sort of threaded with no context of where it had come from. So too much going around in circles, wasting hours talking about stuff where it's, there is a point to which it can be productive and a point to which it can be counterproductive. And if the suffering is coming from way too much, then it's like, it's, see, this is a thing, don't get me wrong. There's a place to think about the future.
There's a place to write goals. There's a, like, there's all of that. The biggest friction, I think, is what I was always seeking was to be on the same page. Not to necessarily think the same way or to want the same things, but to be on the same page of where we were headed.