114 - The Outsider (2020) Part 2

Well, I don't know how to explain this except no, that's crazy. That couldn't be it couldn't what is it? No, it's it's it's crazy forget it. Okay.

I'll tell you When I was younger my my grandmother, okay used to tell me about this this mythical creature That would come in the night and snatch your podcast revenue. What it was called? team cocoa That's scary, right? That is scary.

They I mean we're obviously a small-time podcast You know we have the thing that prays on on the the week the weakest podcast. That's right. Hmm. Wow.

Yeah I mean, I've heard of team cocoa You know my grandmother she told me You know like different Different different mythologies when I was younger. I did hear about team cocoa Grandma told you a bunch of different mythologies. Yeah, she she was kind of from all over the place Yeah, she's a bit of a bit of a doll is all right Yeah, yeah, I went all that stuff about Rachel dolls always coming out my grandmother It took her side Yeah, it's I mean it's true though every culture has their version their own version of this a steamed cocoa Elkum town God elkum town the The boys dough sure sure you know the The smartless fellas those guys you're I don't know where this is going in El oh wait never mind. I was gonna say oh El Barro the guy was the There's that New York Times podcast everyone likes oh, I don't listen that one.

Yeah, I mean here I'm not a no loser this week on King me. We'll trim it this week on King me What's it was it this week on King me fear has many faces this is the outsider part two King me Welcome to King me the official podcast Excuse me the official Stephen King movie podcast the official podcast of Kinging me the official podcast of casting aspersions at other podcasts during a particularly weak podcast intro for shame Yeah, you get a lot of that in like a like a hip hop, you know like a somebody who's like small time We'll try and like talks and shit about like some big time rapper And you know try and get some cloud off of that well as they say you come at the king You best at least string a complete thought together. Yeah, you best come correct, which we have not Yes Rob Dan That's right. I'm Daniel Rob.

That's right here to once again and once and for all Discuss the HBO series the outsider from the year 2020. We were real sweet on the first half. Mm-hmm. The second half Well, let's just say you texted me and said the show fucks And I stand by that statement what I think this show does indeed fuck what was happening on screen at the moment?

They were like oh, yes I think it was like right around the time when our our ragtag group of Monster killers adults hardy boys kind of what's happening here. Yeah, I'm already just hardy men. I mean and When they were like driving out to wherever that like a the cave system was Mm-hmm. I Was I was all for it.

I was I was very into what was happening leading up to it. You were all for them going to the cave system Yeah, yeah And then you said something in response. What did you say you were like it was pretty normal something? No, I May have felt that way like relatively Because you you went full bore and I just said I'm really into it.

So yeah, yeah Which is great on a curve. I basically said I hate it. Yeah, you're like I'm really into it I'm like this guy doesn't doesn't like this at all. Yeah, if you really liked it, he would tell me it fucks right I Con't you know contrary to the recent slander campaign against me Mm-hmm.

I actually did really like it Dander slander Slender Dan that's like slender man Right your slender day. Yes No, I really obviously really liked it. You also really liked it. That's great.

Mm-hmm. This is a rare same page Rare tree. Yeah, so you know if you listen if you're a patron subscriber You know that we recently had a falling out that almost ended the podcast because we didn't agree Precisely on how not that odd. Oh, no, she was short story Harvey's dream.

Yeah. Yeah Yeah over the patreon here was in the King me babies episode You can hear us have it out because you ranked it like 26 and I ranked it like 22 or 18 Right. Yeah, I think here's what's above 20, but it was yeah, it was off like like six spots or something. Yeah As soon as we stopped recording you were like hey, I just want to say it was really fucked up what you did back there You really fucked me on that What am I nastole trying to make me look like an asshole you make me look like an asshole on record Yeah, it got pretty a pretty dicey between us, but we're we're back Oliver we agreed to never let a man or his dream come between us again.

Yes, I Stand by it. That's a pretty good one What that episode or us disagreeing. Oh, no, there's story. Oh, well, I hate it.

You hate it more now Yeah, I've had time to think about it and it has cooled in that time Scandal yeah, the more I think about it the more I forget about it about it. That's that's mmm You're you're now. You're just going out of your way to be mean I'd like to see I'd like to see you write a short story get it published in the New Yorker How are you but you get back to me with what you've actually done it yourself? What are you trying starting an electric car company and then buying a social media platform, huh?

You can't fucking do it. You're not a billionaire We uh, I think we're but you know you change the subject matter But I think that tone is the tone I hear people who don't like this show in yeah We're like disrespected the author Written dozens of novels. He has I believe you know on the patreon. We're we're reading the outsider also So check out the second part of that coming up next Tuesday But he has written dozens.

I believe what is it the outside what we say 50 feet 58. Yeah, 58 books And yeah, and we may have said on that episode, but I think he's finally hitting his stride Really really tapped into something at last I will say though. This does um, we'll get into our king-trope segment later Of course, but they're this this story as depicted on HBO. There is a lot of the hallmarks Right Stephen King joint.

Yes Let's get into it. Yeah, let's fucking talk about it Where did everything leave off last last episode? I don't remember me either Dan I couldn't possibly go back and listen. I couldn't couldn't even watch the Episode or like look at the episode description.

I suppose I could do that now while everyone's listening. Yeah, I mean we could do all that Here we go here. We go. Okay, so episode five one two three four.

They're not even numbered on so in episode five Holly has Holly give me famous detective, right? She has returned from New York where she met a another victim of the outsider She's sort of tracing she's doing contact tracing how very abir po for these times we live in But it's contract contact tracing the outsider. That's right. So from Terry, Nate Lind she goes back and finds Some nurse some other fucker whose name I can't remember a nurse who worked at the the nursing home where Terry's dad was living That nurse had been outside her by a woman or the likeness of a woman in New York City Because he thought he made the mistake of thinking that in in New York.

He could he could pull trim are you kidding? in The biggest the city of the city of hotzos. You think you're just yeah, you think you and Ohio six is pulling a New York seven That's the same chasm is Rob saying this show fucks and me saying I'm really into it. There's a distance between those two So that's true so she goes and has that while she's talking to the woman in New York who the outsider impersonated she Someone else who's visiting someone in the prison like connects with her and they have a conversation and the woman in the prison is basically like I'm pretty I couldn't help overhearing her conversation I think what you're dealing with is el cucko the Mexican Pokemon And and holly being a seasoned private investigator thinks that's not bad thought you know, I Yeah, like I will be looking further into el cucko.

Yes So that's kind of like where we pick up in episode five She is sort of just like going around looking for clues trying to I think find where she sort of deduces that like this entity el cucko like seeks refuge near the sites of the killings it's sort of established at this point that it is a Monster that sort of feeds on human misery. Yeah, right The name of episode five is tear drinker tear drinker. It's pretty good. It's got a big cup that says male tears And then a second cup that says female tears.

Yeah, and then obviously a cup that says you know lip tears lip. Yes, of course And then unfortunately a fourth mug that says child blood Does eat the children too. Yeah, it wasn't part of the same set of cups That was a custom red bubble order. Yeah for sure.

No, I When so Holly Holly returns she's she's coming back to Cherokee City to tell everybody what she found out She hasn't told anybody over the phone. It's like kind of a big deal What she you know, she wants to tell every she's also trying to like gather her thoughts, you know Meanwhile You know, nobody has made any like sort of headway in the case whatsoever more supernatural things, you know They become more evident mmm, but Ralph's yeah detective Ralph Anderson Who was like pretty quick to acknowledge that there's some like weirdness about this case really doubles down at every opportunity At the idea that like there's nothing supernatural happening here at the same time his loving wife Jeannie Was visited by this outsider el cucko And so is like fully on board with all this stuff. She's like something fucked up is happening here Right, and you need to get that through your thick skull right that that scene takes place after Holly's You know meeting presentation, okay, but Since we're talking about it. That was one of my favorite scenes in the whole show was when Mayor winning him right she went she you know, Holly is showing the Makes like a makeshift UV light and she shows like all that whatever that goop was on the the clothes in the barn is on the chair and the table So she shows that and you know, Mary winning hand is obviously she's like just straw over it, you know And the whole time all of this like Ralph is like Yeah, yeah, like his whole attitude is like that's really weird, but there has to be a logical explanation like every step of the way He's like that's really weird.

Yes, there's got to be something to it And yeah, when me winning him is just like Ralph you need to get your head out of your ass Yeah, and sort of like really fucking breaks it down for What what Holly kind of says to because like we should talk about this scene where she actually presents all this stuff also Yeah, but sort of like her her whole presentation of this is like it makes logical sense If you accept that the boundaries of reality are not as confined as you thought right so yeah She talks to Alec Pelly the private investigator who hired her on behalf of the Maitland family's lawyer It's a little convoluted howie howie of we love him love howie and She so basically it's like she wants to meet with Pelly Ralph I guess Sablo the state detective. Yeah, and Maybe some maybe another person involved the case but Anyway, they they open it up basically Someone suggests that like I think everyone involved with is it is it Jeannie who says it Ralph's wife It's like who's like I think everyone who knew Terry should be involved in this like anyone who says specifically like the Terry's wife glory should be there. Yeah, and then you know with glory comes howie the their attorney and then Just when there was me oh and then um the Holly's you know, I'm gonna call him her boyfriend Yeah, I think that's fair to say you know they didn't make it official or anything, but come on. It's real come It's real.

They have his real it is. I love when he shows up and she's like what the hell are you doing here? And then they both have a laugh She's just fucking with them. That was actually very nice because it does seem like one of those things that if you weren't You know if you weren't on the same page about where you both were you know just showing up at somebody is like You know house or whatever the fuck it's just like that's weird and creepy and don't do it But if you know if you guys are on the same page about everything and then you know, that's yeah And it's established.

It's been like three weeks tops since Terry has killed so it's like yeah things to move fast, but so everybody's there and then Jack Hoskins is Sort of he like Hoskins. Yeah, so Jack in when we went last we saw him he offered like a mea culpa to Ralph where he's like hey, I know I'm mean to you and I'm bad at my job But it's just because I'm a big piece of shit and I'm sorry and and because I acknowledge that actually you're the dick If you don't forgive me He didn't say that last bit, but he he calls he's under the influence of the outside of the outsider has Basically sort of like patched in to him through like yes gross sore on the back of his neck And he's like influencing him. He's in his head Yeah, it doesn't seem like he has actual like control over him, but it is we were talking about this last time You brought it up how it's like sort of like a vampire familiar kind of a relationship Yeah, and the way it works seems to be like he's just inflicting horrible pain both like physical and mental on Hoskins and Hey, if that isn't the whole thing here, where it's just like if you like Do think if you do anything to just like alleviate your suffering and not you know I mean like if you just if you because like Hoskins is also like an alcoholic It's established later that he had like a shitty upbringing and stuff So here's a guy who's just trying to numb the pain right he's not trying to make he's not trying to try and send anything He's just trying to get through the day with his little discomfort as possible So he's doing anything this outsider asks outsider says get me a bunch of lamps He says I'll get you a bunch of lamps at the store. I'll bring him to the woods right?

I don't know where you're gonna plug him in He outside says get me a deer still don't know where they're plugged in I assumed he got him a generator or something Just a guess Yeah outside says get me a whole deer to eat he says coming right up outside says get me an old guy to eat He says sure thing that when that part where the hunter like comes out of the woods or whatever to his car Yeah, then just gets like shot in the head. Yes shot ahead and then devoured and then the outside is like he wasn't even good He had cancer. Yeah. He was he was lousy with cancer.

Oh my god Yeah in episode it's episode eight when when we actually like get more of the outside up until that point It's all like you know in the shadows or like from a distance You see like a weird sketchy guy And this is this episode eight is where he's like up close and personal. Yeah, we get some some some some face time It's the outsider himself. Oh, cuckoo. Cuckoo.

Well, we don't really see him Before he looks like Claude, right? Well, yeah So he's transforming into Claude and then there's that whole thing where he gets de-masked at the fair and He's not fully transformed into Claude yet, but he's like pretty close, you know, he's mostly Claude. Yeah I'm played by Patty Considine. Yes, Patty Considine from The from Hot Fuzz I remember him from that movie.

Who's he in Hot Fuzz? I mean there's He's one of the cops in town. He's like one of those detectives. It's like him and another guy.

Yeah There's a great joke in Hot Fuzz where they're sitting at the pub and takes a sip of his Guinness He's got like a beer like Guinness mustache on his actual mustache Yes, and Simon pegs says you have a mustache and he's like I know It's really tickles me. He also plays Andreev in The Death of Stalin a movie I watched but I'm not smart enough to know I don't know. It wasn't good It was like kind of funny like I don't know the situational stuff. Yes, but I think there's a lot of yeah It's like smart guy funny.

I think it's yeah, I think it's funny if you have robust historical knowledge of the Soviet Union I don't so it's for almost nobody. Yeah, it's for eggheads. It's total egghead stuff. It's egg head humor.

Yeah, funny is kind It's pretty good. It's just like a lot of like it's like Russian V. It's Soviet V Yeah, right is it by the same guy that did V. I'm pretty sure whoop or whatever.

Yeah, what's his name? Oh? Man, he's he's probably sitting at home listening to this like my name is Armando. You knew she my name is Armando She's driving him nuts Anyways Armando you know that's good So yes, um so what Holly Holly has a report to get to everybody right and they like you said What's a mirror winning it?

Jeannie Jeannie tells Ralph or suggest to Ralph that you know Gloria should be there You know she should be involved in this stuff, right? And he like I don't know it feels like I'm not gonna say that he's getting annoyed with his wife but she is like contributing a lot of like Her opinion and she's like in getting involved in the case and stuff and it does feel like and she believes like all of the Like the mystical kind of aspect she like obviously she had a conversation with the outside El cuckoo at the kitchen table or whatever So she is like fully on board with like supernatural shit and yeah, Ralph is not It very much parallels That flashback scene we get after like immediately after their son has died where Jeannie is like hold up in bed Just like kind of devastated and like her responses to go through it Yes, Ralph's response is to get drunk and tell her that she has to get over it Sing sort of thing where he's just like well, you know like I can't I can't look the reality of the situation in the face because it's It's just someone fathomably bad Right, it's I don't know. I just I like that so much that like Ben Mendelssohn's performance Men Mendelssohn men Mendelssohn right the professional wrestling He walks this line with with Jeannie where he's like, you know, he's trying to like Listen to everything that she's saying right he doesn't want to dismiss any of it But his like I could see in his face that he naturally dismisses it because it's crazy, you know It's that doesn't make any sense this show really yeah, just generally so his arc right like yeah his whole thing is that he It seems like he like the way it's set up and the way they're kind of talking about is like he needs to believe in el cucco Yeah, and really what's happening is he needs to confront it like he knows fundamentally What's happening here because nothing else makes sense right and that's like his approach to his job Yes, but he just cannot Confront it which is ultimately why he's the one who makes a goaker splat right um He Where was it going with that right? Yeah, the way so the way they sort of like depict him getting to that point There's never for that reason there's no moment where he's like oh shit.

I guess it is real It's just like right the the reality of the situation the stakes of the situation gets so high that he just has to kind of like rise to the Occasion yes, which like yeah, we'll talk about it when we get to like the ending and whatever But that's some of my favorite shit about this show is how like real world I don't know you always see in movies where like you know something supernatural happens And there's like there's something who doesn't believe it and then then they believe it a hundred percent and what and everybody's on board And now we have to go fight the thing or whatever right and I just I think it's so interesting that he is like he's basically a Skeptic until he's like essentially face to face with the thing Yeah, he goes along with all of it, but there's like he's not a hundred percent on board. He does not Until it's like right in his face, you know, he really it feels like he's not yeah He just doesn't fully buy into it all interesting I had a I don't know I had a little bit of a different read whereas like I really do think it's it's almost just like I Mean I guess we're kind of saying the same thing It's like it's sort of like the strength of the of the bluetooth signal that is with the monster Right like it's just like sure it just like the closer he gets to it the also just like the The he can't look anywhere else like it's just fully in his field of vision is certain point and that I to me That's the moment where the cops show up to the Bolton house Claude Bolton's yes brothers house With the video of El cucko as Claude at the like festival retry to snatch a kid well. Yes, right? Yes, that's yeah, that's the moment when you're like There is no other explanation for it right like Ralph.

He's like, okay. We have to do this. We have to stay with Claude All of us we have to be here and we have to watch him because we know that you know, okay I was gonna do something he's trying to impersonate Claude and you know We're cops and we'll be Claude's witnesses Yeah, and even it feels like even then right like he is not he's like I'm going along with this like I do believe something very Strange is going on, but I don't you know, there has to be like some sort of a logical explanation like me Winning him she yells her on the table where she's like, you know, either fucking You know exactly how she puts it, but it's like either start accepting this or get out of everybody's way Yeah, because you're going to be you're you not believing it is gonna be a hindrance for everybody You're gonna fucking get people hurt and it feels like up until that point and like Holly I think it's when they're at the house at the Bolton house when Holly is like you still don't believe it, right? Yeah, right and he says like I'm trying and she's basically just like try harder He's like I'm like I'll get there just let me get there and she's like you need to get there faster Right, which is like I mean, it's great and I know I And then once because he's so like, you know, he's been saying it the whole show was like he has to believe that There's a logical explanation for all everything because he's a man of the law right, you know, like he puts people In jail based on crimes and and evidence and witnesses that also things I think that's also like Why the like the scene where the cops come to talk to Claude Functions is like the hinge point for me because that's also the moment where Ralph interferes with the law basically Yes, like he he just like the cops like they're like can we come in and talk and he's like yeah, let's talk out here Yeah, like he he fully impedes them just knowing that like that to me is like him fully crossed over is like they don't know What's going on they can't be made to understand what's going on?

Yeah, we don't have that kind of time right exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so that was good. Oh also a step in his journey Not only to her just like believing the situation but like even just like trusting Holly fully Yeah, I love the conversation in the car where like Ralph is like When he's spiraling a little bit not spiraling it on the when they're on the way to Claude And he tells her that story about his mom dies right and it's very clearly like because he says as much in a few scenes prior Where he's like he's like you're one of those people who?

You can't you don't budge an inch like you need people to come to where you are and if they don't they're they're stupid basically Right just like you come out here like he's like I met people like you and then she says I've met a lot of people like you And but he's basically like you come in with like these crap hot theories and you basically just like you won't hear anything else He's basically calling her clothes minded. Yeah, and then like I think with that presupposition in mind They're driving out to the Bolton house together And he tells her this story about his mom dying like the same day or like right around the time that their son was born Right it was yeah, so that right the story is that when Ralph was younger his mom really liked this song It's called Washington Square and Washington Square His mom was real into grunge. Yeah No, and she played the song for him and then he said like how you know, whatever time passed she passed away whatever and then the day that Jeannie was giving birth to their son on the way to the hospital. He started talking to You know his mother like in his head or whatever and that song came on the radio and he was like that That's like, you know, that's the closest thing he's ever had to like any sort of you know spiritual thing Yeah, and he's like so what do you make of that?

He's like what do you make of that story and she's like? Sounds like a sounds like a coincidence to me Right and they have a nice big laugh about that dude this light. Do you see this beautiful light? Yeah, I see that that's God's majesty dude He's shining down on this podcast.

I'm trying to I don't know how to like there we go. Maybe I just keep my Wow things are really falling apart over here. Yeah, I got the cat She like waits until I'm recording to use a litter box. Yeah It doesn't make a lot of noise.

She's like I'm here to get this on my producer his mo. Yeah Anyway, so yeah, he's like bi-degrees. He's just coming to he's really just coming to terms with what's happening. Yes Um sort of paralleling that also is like he has a dream about his son.

Mm-hmm And it's just like he's in his bed and his son is there and he just says like you have to move on like you have to let me go Yeah So it is just like his whole deal is that he's just like in denial about The reality of his life and his just like perceptions of the world. There's there's that scene so so Holly Right, she she makes this presentation to this room full of people that we you know that we all know and she says you know We all know them. We all know and these are people we all know. Yeah, I got I got people you know I know people all of them.

Alec pelly love him. Right Jeremy. He's a veteran Right No, and then you know glory gets pissed off. She's like what are you talking about?

I I love that that was so good Yeah, she fucking glory who's been trying to you know keep her family together She talks about how they're like running out of money and shit right she has to like go back to work as a real estate agent And she's showing a house and the people you know, they're stalking at her. Yeah, they're talking at her They ask like a couple leading questions or whatever and she sort of snaps. Yeah, um, she's like obviously she's been through a lot in the last few weeks Yeah, but that's where they established the timeline right like her boss the real estate agency is like I think three weeks Was probably too soon for you to come back. Yeah, yeah, we're so wise.

We're talking about But yeah, but her in that meeting when she's like First Howard is like, uh, do you know, let's get out of here. This is ridiculous And she's like no no I want to hear her out and and then she you know, Holly keeps going and she starts You know going in in more depth about okoo go and all the supernatural shit and then she snaps and she's like what the fuck Have you people been doing this is how you're gonna exonerate my husband and she just leaves she's pissed right? Right. Yeah, and like the thing she doesn't say which is there is that she's also paying for this right?

Yeah, like it's her lawyer who hires these investigators Um, so there's like all that which I I really liked Um, you know, we'll talk in depth about how the book sort of like differs from the series overall, but her Relationship to this case is so different from how it's portrayed in the book in the book She's kind of just like she's a lot more on board with everything. Yeah, you know, um And I think it's just like it's so much more interesting to have her Not being on board right yeah for a little bit because ultimately she I mean really what does it for her again is like mare winning him, uh, genie She's like they reconcile and she's basically like I don't know what all that crazy shit was But I respect you and I just didn't want she's like you've been so kind to me and I want to like You know honor that basically right so yes, so uh, leading up to um, you know, holly's, uh, presentation there Jack picks her up to bring her to the meeting Uh pick her up at the airport and then she's gonna bring her over there and he's you know He's like feeling her out for like what what she knows she won't she's not giving up any information She says that you know, she's still trying to put her thoughts together Um, but we get a little bit more of like, you know, jack how much is jack like willing to how far is he going here, right? um Does it you know, like he's gonna The elkuko is telling jack to get rid of holly he like during the meeting he looks at the back of his hands and like Uh, it's like it was it just says like stop her. Yeah, like, you know, it's like an imaginary thing But it looks like it's carved into his hands.

So uh with jack Uh, then later on when jack is home elkuko possesses his mind and Makes him hallucinate his mother who starts just mercilessly beating. Yeah, like real and like There's a shot where she like jumps up and like leaps across the room in like a like a supernatural kind of way and just like tackles him And just starts like pummeling him and shit dragging him across like kicking him when he's down dragging him across the apartment and stuff The apartment is like completely trash. There's like blood absolutely everywhere. Um, moms, right?

Moms classic moms Put that ingredient card mom. Yeah, you kick the shit out of me and drag me all over my apartment There's blood everywhere growing up, but god help it you're my mom. Oh, happy mother's day Uh, I wouldn't change it for the world So elkuko is really pissed at jack that he hasn't like stopped this yet um after the presentation right everybody is sort of like so Uh, uh, ralph especially is like I can't believe that's the the information that holly brought back You know, he's really pissed about it and genie is like well. She's staying with us So, uh, she stays over their house and ralph he sort of Uh, is this the part where he's like, um, I know people like you right?

Yeah, it's in the house right? I think so and then yeah, so there's like some tension there. Um, and then the next day early on jack contacts holly and says hey Um, you know, I think I think there might be something in that barn. Um, you know, I think it proves You're uh, you know what you were saying yesterday.

We should go check it out and you could prove them You know prove to them what was going on. She's like, okay, and you know, he's like, uh, don't mention it to uh, ralph Yeah, right don't mention it's anybody until we have something yeah, uh, so holly holly's driving she picks up jack Then they start heading out there and jack looks like shit jack is he has tried to Like cover up his business is his makeup and it's like the worst makeup job that he did to himself obviously and and it's all like Weird and gray he looks more like I don't know, uh, it's almost like a low low Uh, low budget production of like a zombie movie. Yeah, totally like almost undead. I'll tell you what he kind of looks like el cucko Right his face is all like lumpy and sagging and shit and yeah, he's all fucked up Um, which is I mean, that's just that's classic king shit right there.

It's like having having whatever familiar you have just falling apart physically totally And so there's heading out there and it slowly becomes more apparent to holly that like oh jack You know, she sees the bumps and blisters on the back of his neck. Um, Yeah, she knows and eventually he like sort of comes cleaning about the whole el cucko thing Um And it goes from like we're driving out here to I you know, it's like a hostage kind of thing Um, she manages to they stop off somewhere and she manages to get away with the car Um, which you know sends jack just sort of like into you know, wherever he's just in the wind Um, he eventually comes back to town just to grab a bunch of guns and then he goes again Yeah, I did not like that the shot of a closet opening and there's a yeah, whole sniper rifle Right when like when uh, ralph goes over there with like some guys they go they open up the you know, go into the apartment whenever they're like, oh shit Uh, they know that holly is with jack. Um, they come, you know, figure that out that neither one of them is answering their phones Um, you know, they go to the apartment. They're like, oh man.

I hope that's his blood Um, and they at this point they like I think they take all the guns and stuff out of the house Or out of jack's apartment and when jack comes back he gets there's like a hidden like a kind of bookshelf or something like a hidden safe um but so uh Whatever holly like like gets away from jack. Um, she gets back with our main group. Um, they know that jack is Uh, you know possessed by elkugo or whatever And and then they're like then they have to find claud who clawed his left town. Yeah, um, claud also like because he was Scratched by elkugo that I guess establishes some sort of psychic connection between them So he's like he's all fucked up.

He's going through it a little bit, you know, he's like feeling like shit He feels like he says like it feels like there's somebody in my head or whatever Um, he like he can't sleep. He keeps waking up thinking that like somebody is outside his door Yeah, he's not like he's not being controlled by him or anything, but it's like weighing on him and it ultimately leads to him like um Getting in a fight with a customer to bar which in my opinion was pretty well justified by the fact that the guy tried to stab him to death Yeah, but he he like I think he just like Makes the decision to take care of himself and like remove himself from that environment because he feels like it's weighing down on him So he so he leaves town and he goes to stay with his brother Um, what's his brother's name? Uh, is seal seal bolton seal bolton. Okay.

Um, yeah Oh wait, uh real quick. There's um I think it's a scene where so uh at one point glory calls up ralph and asks him to come over and talk or whatever and There's um, there's a moment during their conversation and they're just like they're not talking about any of the supernatural stuff They're just talking about you know, whatever and she she looks at at Ralph and says what if terry did kill that boy And there's like a second pause and then her face turns to like absolute horror because she said the words out loud Yeah, um, I just thought that was like a fucking great moment. Yeah, I thought so too that actress, uh julienne Nicholson Yeah, she's got the goods this julienne promising keep an eye out for julienne nicolson Yeah, she uh, she's in the weird owl movie. So oh yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it.

But she's a fun movie. Yeah Um So uh, we have our like group or like ragtag group. Um, howie and was it allak they stay behind? Um, allak, allak talks about he tells a story he gets a couple monologues in these last five episodes He tells a story about when he was a kid.

Um, I think it was his brother and his brother's friends They like they ditched him out in the woods and then he was he was lost out there for hours and Uh, you know, they had a search party out there looking for him eventually they found him but like right before they found him Um, he heard something call call his name twice and he's like there to this day that I've never been so scared shitless Yeah, um, so when everybody is like, you know rallying the troops to go get this thing. Um He's just like I can't I can't go. I just can't do it. All right too scared too.

Damn scared. Mr. too damn scared. Um, so Uh, so they stay behind The rest of our group they go out.

They're looking for a clod Uh, they get to the the bolt in the house and they're like they basically lay it down for him that they're like, you know There's a working theory that there's an elk go that you may have been scratched by yes And they're like nobody can leave the house. Uh, we're all staying here. Uh, you know, if this thing tries to strike again You'll have credible witnesses that saw you So then we get that whole scene at the fair which like everything leading up to that was like I was Wolf I was buddy so deeply dreading all of that. Yeah, because like I was I was thinking of dr.

Sleep. I was like they'll they'll do it. They'll kill the shit out of a kid if they have to It's very effective to just kill a kid on you know in media. Yeah, man It's almost as bad as killing a dog.

Yeah, so uh, yeah, and we get that like There's that family up that like, uh, You know, they're they're taking it. I think it's their kids. It's their kids or their grandkids. I can't even tell it looks like grandkids They're pretty old they are pretty old which is like even satter.

Yes, right. It's even satter Right, and so it's these two grandparents and these two kids and they're like, uh, the youngest kid is like super excited for the caves You know, he's a cave nerd. Yeah, he's a bit of a nerd about it. Um, and like I don't know everything with that family is like it's very like kind of fun and light and sweet and You know obviously you're like a fuck.

Oh fuck. Yeah. I mean like these kids are these kids are angels Yeah, this is uh, this is a caravan right here. Like a this is a winnabago of angels right now um So, uh, you know, they all they all go to the thing that the like teenage, uh girl She like wants to you know, go off and like talk to boys and shit The two like grandparents they just go sit down.

They I think they eat something whatever and then the other kid is like wandering around Wearing this like I think it's I don't know if it's a wolf mask or bear mask that he has he is wearing a bear mask Okay, and then el cucco. Yeah. Yeah, so he's looking at this map of the caves and like, you know, it's called like cave fest, right? It is like it's a whole thing organized around the caves which like it sounds silly, but like sounds that sounds kind of cool to me Yeah, that should like there fares like that all the time where it's something like silly little thing that they make a big deal out Yeah, the one thing the town is known for they make a fast out of it Um, so he's looking at this map and then el cucco approaches him, uh, you know wolf mask no less and you know, he starts saying Oh, very have a po.

Yeah. Oh man, you gotta check out the bear cave That's you know, they have like crazy, uh, like scratches and stuff on the walls here. You want me to show you things like and the kids like Yeah, show me and then they just start walking and you know, ococo's got his hand on the back of the kids neck And he's like kind of leading him through this crowd of people and it's just like it's it's fucking it It's horrifying and you're like it's it's yeah Yeah, and so tense and no less it's more horrifying when God his sister sees that this is happening and immediately you know sort of like freaks out and is like screaming for help um And the people at the festival sort of like in circle El cucco and the kid and pull him apart Um el cucco tries to make a break for it someone knocks him to the ground the grandpa knocks him to the ground Yeah, grandpa comes in and tackles him guys like guys big dude. He's probably like he's like he's a big santa sort of fella Yeah, um I did think there's like a moment after so he tackles him unmasked him el cucco gets away We don't see who he is but we said already he looks like uh clot now Uh, he's like, you know, 85 clot Claw yeah, clow Um Uh, did you think the grandpa was gonna have a heart attack?

I sure did. Oh, yeah Here's a moment where you like I think there's a I think maybe they shot a version where he had a heart attack and accidentally Is that footage? I mean, it's definitely possible He like he sits up after tackling el cucco and he's that he's like catching his breath And there's like he like plants a hand on the ground Right in a way that's sort of like oh no Is all he's got left. Yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, but he lives They uh, they go there they're they debrief with the cops the interview with the cops That's when the cops come to clod and finally were caught up to where we were 20 minutes ago Well, yeah, there was other things, you know simultaneously happening um so uh, right so the the the cops in that town they they come to the boulton house and they're like We're looking for clod because you know, he tried to abduct a kid last night He's on video doing it and they're like well, that's impossible We were here we're investigating like something else or whatever and we you know, he's like a key witness or whatever bullshit They have to tell the local cops Um, but they do they make up like a little story and they you know, uh, they also ask if they can interview the witnesses and and they do Um, I don't remember if there's anything like especially memorable about their their interviews. Um We also so right so at this point like Ralph is is fully on board with the supernatural aspects of this he still doesn't get it um But he is on board. Um What? This cat won't stop jumping on my lap.

It sounds like we both have these Unsolvable problems. I mean this I don't give her a loss and she'll be fine Um, that is adorable, but good good. I'm trying to record a podcast. Yeah, you could probably still bring her back hasn't hasn't been that long No one would blame you if you brought it back to the store.

Oh, front of the shelter. Yeah, like I'm sorry. I can't keep these cats They're interviewing my podcast Yeah, I have a podcast about steven king movies and these cats are interrupting it and from that day on they've added a question to the questionnaire That's like do you have a pot? Did the cat press that button?

Yeah, the cat just press that button. Oh my god does not not a good look for the cat No, man. That's I haven't heard that one that drop in a long time I wasn't sure if her little beans were gonna be able to you know activate the touch pad there But turns out only the turns out they're perfect for doing that Hey speaking of el cucco. Yeah, I went to a I went to a show last night.

Oh shit The musical artists name is cucco. What? Yeah, my my my friend Ryan who you know Yeah, he's like uh, forget what his actual title is, but he's something like a music director for this band He's like at least like on tour. That's kind of what he's doing.

He's like overseeing like the live show or whatever And so I asked him I said Cucco and I was like this is gonna really impress. All right, because I'm like, yeah, just seems like I know it Like oh cucco is that like I'll cucco the Mexican bogeyman Oh my oh is it that just curious because I saw it and I I file I rifled through the files in my mind palace in the Yeah, of course naturally my mind turned to the Mexican folklore character el cucco and he was like no It's like it's not that at all. Oh did you actually ask it? I did yeah, I was curious I was like I was like did he name himself after el cucco and what it actually what he said Let me find it.

I was texting with them. He said cucco is a nickname from like cusito or crazy. Oh, okay Which that's fun. I mean, what's crazier than kidnapping a kid in a big black stack, right?

Hey, right just my opinion eating them and then you know And what and what have you And the rest and all that comes with it Anyway, yes, so Right, so they interview those witnesses We also get that flashback scene of like those kids In the cave, right? Yeah, that's sort of like intercut in one of the later episodes. It's like I don't know what the 40s the 50s Yeah, something like that Uh, but like why was that in there Dan? Why what was the point of all that?

I don't fully know Um, I think it's just sort of like To establish the idea that long after people die there are like reverberations of misery and suffering that feed el cucco Right because that's basically basically what he says when they're in the cave He's just like I still feel them in here, especially the rhythms or whatever. So right so basically yes Sorry, well these two kids they go spielunking They're just like goofing off they wander off the the family property And there's like a cave like a tourist attraction and there's like a gift shop you enter through um Sort of the opposite of that Banksy movie in a lot of ways And you're a big banksy guy, right? You like him. There's so much that so much of it goes over my head, but I love the the style Um He so these two kids sneak in like a little crevasse, you know away from the entrance and they get lost they get lost in the caves Um, their dad comes looking for them realizes what's happened and goes in after them the normal way And he can hear them, but he can't find them And eventually he gives up and sort of like calls on all the all the men in the town to Come help right he puts a posse together.

So it's a group of like what 20 guys probably Yeah, it's probably something like that all ages teens and men and they all go in and there's a rock fall and they get trapped in the cave Yeah, that's right where um and we find out later from seal bolton That um among the people in the cave where the the bolton and patriarch their grandfather and his two brothers. So, um Um, go ahead. Well, I just yeah, oh, I was just gonna say and seal also mentions as he's telling this story that Um, he's like he's like not a lot of people know about that cave right because that that's what it is It's like that is what they get from the interviews is like the kid wanted to go see the bear caves Elcoco was going to show him the bear caves and the bear caves are what where the rock fall happened where everyone got trapped and eventually It was like sealed off because people kept like trying to go in just to like fuck around Um, and yeah sealed base. Hey sealed off sealed Uh bolton bolton it shut right.

Yeah, okay. So this has layers Um, we also in that in the scene of that like uh that flashback when the all the men from town are in the cave looking for the boys Um, we get a king alum Damn you're shitting me. I am not you mean to tell me that jack nicholson is in this film He's in the back. He's one of the extras When are we gonna find these goddamn kids?

Yeah jack shut the fuck up. You're not you have no lines You who boys? Here's jack Like that doesn't roll off. Oh, no Uh, no the the there's like a young there's like a teenage boy that's with them uh, that's like sort of Uh, that's walking with the father and he's like he's talking to the father, uh, but that kid Uh christopher nathan.

I know this also the boy from the creep show episode gray matter Whoa, you're really good at this. Did you really good with faces? I'm terrible with names Did you you really just like you looked at him and you were like creep show boy hands down. I did it's how I cannot stress this enough.

I'm I'm so fucked up in all other aspects of my life Because here's the thing about is broken in a very specific way This christopher nathan anyone this christopher nathan. He has one two three four five six seven eight acting credits That's right. And you still them we've talked about Yeah, yes, but that's that's insane to me. I don't oh my god.

I don't remember I know This I am not I don't find this impressive. I find this to be some sort of a like a like a glitch in my brain Something is I mean, I think I've definitely there's there's the part of my brain that can recognize faces really well Um is taking up too much room and it's it's pushing on other things, you know, yeah pushing out other memories and you know, maybe It seems to bode well for you like long-term I hope so because like I don't know it's not like you saw that episode of creep show as like a child And it's like this deeply ingrained memory. No, it's not It's true that's wild that is wild So uh all the men folk they get uh You know, there's a cave in and they get trapped in there and they all they all just die That's like the whole story. That's where I thought something like again.

I thought something supernatural I thought el cucko may have been in there or maybe el cucko was one of those guys sure You know something like that and it's that's none of it Uh, they were just like 20 or so guys that went down into a cave to look for these boys and they all died And I assume those boys died as well because nobody we don't ever actually follow up with that, right? Well, all we get as a follow-up is just like you can imagine how terrible it must have been when everybody down there died Um, yeah harsh harsh shit um right, so Uh, they know that el cucko is down in this in this cave, right? He's just sort of like sort of like wallowing in all the like the misery that surrounds the cave, right? Um, so then our group of of uh, you know good guys good guys with guns They head out to the cave and they're gonna you know, they're gonna find el cucko Um The drive out there when this is what I was talking about before when Ralph was a little kind of spiraling He's not like fully spiraling out, but he this is after he accepts the supernatural aspects of it Yes And he's he's just like well if this is real then what the fuck else is real and like what else you know and the guy Alec who?

And as he says that he says um, he says what what else is real? Yeah, I this honestly for me was like kind of too much He says if that's real what else is real and then the great gazoo appears And he says he beats me and and he's gone and we don't let me just yeah, that's kind of what bothered comes back Yeah, that's what bothered me. It's just like this loose thread It's like presumably the great gazoo has the power to kill el cucko Right you think we need like one of those you just chooses not to I guess we need like one of those youtube channels that like Makes fictional characters fight each other or what? el cucko versus the great gazoo Those are fun, right?

Oh, yeah, they're great time No, I just I really like that scene the guy Alec who at a certain point during the show. He's I think it's after the after holly's meeting Uh, howard walks out Alec leaves with him and and he basically like tells Howard he's like listen I know I get it. I know how it all sounds and whatever Uh, but I've I've done a lot of reading on this kind of thing It's like you know a little bit of a hobby of mine like cryptids and that kind of shit and he's like it's It's you know, there's weird shit out in the world that we don't know what it is Right so when they're in the car and Ralph is like well, what else is real like and he starts going and he's like Alec's like take it easy man. Just take small bites.

All right, and he just keeps saying small bites It's like right and he's just like you know because if you if you go to like galaxy brain with it You're just gonna like implode just be like, you know, my entire reality is shattered here, right? so So all right the end of so this is episode nine they all get to the entrance of the gift shop and uh, you know, they all they kind of they get out of their cars and out of like nowhere Alec is just immediately shot in the head and killed just like yeah fucking takes a step out of the car he's maybe standing there for a minute and then he's just shot dead and And we see it's jack who's like he's got a sniper rifle. He's up on like a rock. That's like it's high up and he's just like firing down on people uh And the way the episode ends is fucking it's incredible like I don't know the most shows would end an episode with like Uh before any shots, you know went off like they get there and like we see a shot of jack maybe perched up there We see a group of a shot of jack He's got a whole handle of it.

Oh, yeah. Oh man. Yeah, this guy's fucking like he's going through it Yeah, you think he's drinking the jack daniel specifically because his name is jack like that's how it started and now he's like Well, I'm just sticking with this like I'm a degenerate and I just drink straight from the bottle of jack Yeah, I do and I think uh anyone not named After a liquor can't succumb to alcoholism. That's right So bad news for um my nephew wild turkey stay away from the bottle son Uh So so the right so most episodes would end with like that tension like right before it's about to like you know go off And the episode so he jack gets the one shot off um Ben Mendelssohn is like standing next to the allock and he gets like splattered in blood all over his face and Mendelssohn's face is It's so like I don't know if it's um Like stoicism or like no, I think it's just the moment between seeing and reacting Right like that's what I was gonna say or everything is just happening so fucking fast that he's just like he doesn't even have time to react There's no That's another thing with the show and like his performance especially is that like They're he's doing like a ton of subtle things like even that right there is not Like most shows were played up as that character is like surprise or like jumps into action immediately or Something right and his face is just like kind of blank Yeah, and it just like it drops into like a slow motion and then it fades the fucking black And then we just hear the screen is black and we just hear shot.

We're like 10 shots. Yeah. Oh my god And you're like what is happening and then you know credits That's a fucking cliffhanger really good. Yeah, it's really good And then we get just like the bleep in the next episode like the bleakest fucking what feels like 20 minutes It feels like it goes on for so long And it's literally just like no one knows where jack is like right they can't see him They right if the shots are coming down Once it's a seal right he grabs his rifle and he's like, you know, he's gonna try and shoot him and then seal get shot right in the chest um the guy Andy Which we didn't say but Andy and um Holly they have this really like sweet moment right before they get there where they're like You know, they basically it's like this unspoken thing like, you know, I really care about you I really care about you too kind of thing.

It's very nice. Um So Andy sort of jumps into action and he gets in one of the trucks and he's he tries to like he's gonna drive away He's gonna like I don't know if he's getting help or if he's trying to like find another angle to like yeah, exactly so But then jack Just starts firing on him and the truck and shoots him Uh, it shoots the gas tank and then the fucking car explodes. Yeah, um, well, it's it catches fire It's leaking gas. Holly sees that she's gonna run and save Andy Yeah, it's like they do like the most plausible version of the shoot the gas tank of the car explode thing where it's like Yeah, he shoots it so that it's leaking gas and then basically like ricochets a shot off of a rock So that it sparks and then the sparks catch the gas which like still very silly But at least then just have the car explode as soon as he shot the tank Right, and there's like there's a bit of a precedent for it too.

Like he was uh The guy, right? Yeah, he like tried to go get into the marines He wanted to be like a sharpshooter or something and he passed like all of the shooting exams And then it came down to like a psych evaluation and they were like no way like Too fucked up. Yeah, and that is sort of like that's when holly Is like she's like oh yeah. Well elkooko feeds on pain and it sounds like this guy's got it in spades basically right like yeah Yeah, so uh so howard goes to he you know holds holly back He goes to get Andy out of the truck truck explodes killing Andy and Howard um You know what's fucked up too.

There's like so like um jack is in kind of a frenzy and there are when he isn't When he doesn't have a clear line of sight on anyone. He's just like pumping rounds into the corpses And like yelling is very fucked up. It is super fucked up It's uh, it's like it is disturbing. It's like it's like all of his like he's up there He's kind of like talking to himself but like shooting like shooting the corpses and then like yelling it's like this you know like a psychological kind of tactic or something.

I don't know but like uh So the Ralph and who's the other? Sablo Sablo. Yeah, um sabbal gets shot in the arm. He's still alive though I do like the line they give him where he's like he's like it hurts getting shot Yeah I know nobody you know, you don't hear it enough in movie.

Yes. Usually people just get shot and they're like oh stuff my toe kind of reaction And then they just keep going but yeah, yeah um and then holly holly gets fed up with it and like uh She steps out into like the open and she just yells like stop. I think she yells goddamn you Oh, yeah, goddamn you to hell. I'm sorry.

Yeah, you're right. Um, and then jacks just like, uh, don't worry. I think you will Yeah, uh, and then he turns like he turns around and there's like this big rattlesnake on the rock behind him And he's like yeah, okay, and he just sort of like leans into the snake bites him. Yeah, then he he walks down uh, you know his his Is his face like blowing up from the poison or whatever like he's all he's in bad shape.

Yeah And he he just he sticks the rifle first. He's like he's like he's in there He points to the cave where elkuko is and and then he blows his head off right, um A redemptive moment. It's somewhat. Yeah, I guess Um, so then where it's really it's just holly ralph holly ralph.

Yes claud is uh, he's like sort of he's dealing with his brother Um, so holly and ralph if they go down into the cave first And when they're walking down there they're like getting close to elkuko And then we hear elkuko tell them like watch her step like he gets slippery over there Stay close to the wall so you don't fall or whatever right which is creepy having some sort of a evil being like that Just like give you safety. Yeah, he's fucking creepy Yeah, he says something like a normal combo like he didn't come all this way just to you know fall and crack your head or whatever So they they get down there. There's elkuko um ralph scot a gun pointed at him and he's like fully fully uh clawed at this fully clawed. Yeah And he does some does a bit of philosophizing.

I suppose he does a little bit of you know evil guy monologuing at the end there right? Um holly Ralph really just wants to kill him holly wants to ask him questions. She's just like who are you what are you how old are you? All this stuff are there more are there more of you and he's like he's just like I don't know how he's like I've been around as long as I can remember kind of right.

It's so yeah, um, but it's really good uh Right and then so ralph is like, uh, you know, he's like i'm just gonna shoot him like and elkuko's like Uh, he yells something yells out to clod. I forget what he says, but he like yeah calls. Oh, yeah. No, I'm sorry.

Yeah He says oh will the real clod bolton please stand up right and as he yells like the cave starts like sort of like Shaking a little bit and like bits of like sand and rock come down from the ceiling So this is like an unstable cave and we already know that the cave like it caved in on those people early on in the uh in that flashback It's a cat on the camera Um So uh, yeah ralph is like ralph knows that he can't use his gun in the fucking cave which I mean that that's just I don't know. That's great. Even though what ends up happening is yeah Clod comes out the real clod comes, you know through the cave with a shotgun and uh Doesn't waste much time. I would say no really does like I mean, but it makes so much He's like he looks at elkuko who looks exactly like him and he's like trying to sort of like wrap his head around it And then uh elkuko try he goes to say something and clod just fucking shoots him and like blows him away Um, then the cave starts like shaking and whatever and a stalactite comes down and fucking goes right through elkuko Right in the good right into his gut um clod gets hit with the falling rock and then ralph and holly start running They find like a little sort of like um, what would you call it like a carved out spot in the cave with yes cover And they wait for the rocks to settle they come back out clod gets clod got like kind of hit um On the shoulder something like it definitely fucked him up, but he's he's still okay So holly they all they get him up.

They start leaving and then ralph turns back walks up too. Well So as they're walking out ralph sees two ghosts right He sees that the go the uh the ghost of aali peterson the the boy that shot terry maitland and that ralph killed And the other boy is uh his son. Yeah, darron right so um So this This the the reason for those ghosts right so like we talked about him seeing his son in the dream and that the dream version of his son It he it's basically implied through the story and whatever that that was elkuko basically telling him to leave him alone, right? So when he sees those two ghosts, he knows that elkuko is still alive So he goes he tells holly and clod to go ahead Um, and he's just gonna do something real quick and he goes over and then he gets a monologue Like uh, you know at first I thought that you could be killed now.

I'm not so now. I'm not so sure about whatever And then he just uh look at you laying there play and possum Plain kind of like that mushmauf thing going he does. Yeah, um But so elkuko has a knife in his chest holly like stabbing in the heart Um, ralph takes a knife out, right? And I love it He's like he's delivering this monologue right and elkuko starts like moving one of his hands like he's gonna like reach up And ralph just grabs that hand slams it back down and drives the knife through its palm And it's I don't know I just like that he's just like I am uh, there's no way you're getting the upper hand on me right now Like I am in charge um, and yeah, and he you know, he's like Uh, whatever you're I he says something to the effect of like He wants he almost wants to bring people down here to take a look at you But he knows that like he knows they can't go around telling people that this is elkuko Whatever like this is not going to exonerate terry maitlin So it's better if you just go away so he takes like a big rock and just right before he kills him Um elkuko sort of like transforms into like a bunch of different yeah, it seems like he's going backwards through the faces that he had That's what it yeah, that's what it seems like right and then and then you know, uh, Ralph just takes that big rock and crushes it's Yeah, he does it's pretty good get some but good Um, and then we have a half hour left of that episode yes, right?

Well, I guess it's more like 15 20 minutes right because of credits or whatever, but still I was like I was very surprised to see it was There was more right there was yeah, there was like a significant amount more Um, which I I loved so like the rest of the episode is basically like uh terry coming back Contacting that da from like the beginning who wanted to prosecute terry. Mm-hmm contacting him Um, they all like they all got there. Uh, they'll have to figure out their stories like get their story straight, right? And then eventually like Uh, what ends up happening is terry is exonerated publicly.

Um, the scene where the da goes to the maitland house and talks to glory um, and the line he says a line where he's like He wants to apologize. He's like due to the fact that like, you know, I'm in i'm involved in lawsuit You're suing me and my company, whatever. I can't tell you what's really in my heart And glory says I understand which is like, I don't know. I just thought there was like a really sort of nice moment.

Yeah, um, and and yeah, so terry's exonerated Uh, his name is completely cleared and uh Ralph and genie we just we see them they're sitting at a bench Uh at their son's grave and uh, Ralph said you know tells genie about the dream and you know, daric was there and he said, uh, you know You have to let me go and then you know genie says well, there's fat chance of that right? um, and they both kind of like laugh about it a little bit and And that's basically it or is it dan? Mm-hmm Did you stay for the mid credits? No, I didn't I thought you were joking.

Nope. Oh, no, so there's a mid credit scene dan Okay, let me lay this out for you. Uh, so we see holly leaves leaves uh ralph's house and everything She's like they have a really nice moment where uh, Ralph is like well, what else is out there right and and holly's just sort of like, I don't know Yeah, it gives him like a right little smile and a shrug. Yeah, yeah, I mean like all of this experience and stuff for holly I think it's been you know her getting to like experience, you know, uh, Her feelings with andi and all this stuff like it she's had a bit you know some growth as a character as well.

Um, so the mid credit scene is Uh holly in a hotel room, right? She's like she's washing her hands She's like getting ready for pet or something and she's in the bathroom and then like out of nowhere jack sort of appears And uh she turns around and he's not really there right? It was just her imagination and she takes like a little mirror or whatever and like checks the back of her neck to make sure she doesn't have any bumps and whatever which she does not Um, oh thank god. Thank god Uh, so she's sitting she's sitting on the bed.

She's like on her computer. She sees the Terry is exonerated, right? Um, she's listening to the radio and the radio starts playing Washington Square the song that Ralph's mother loved, right? So it's a show a little you know, she's maybe present or whatever.

Thank you for helping my son. Thank you for helping my boy see So the the shot is just it's like straight on of her like looking at her computer It's sort of like you know pulling out from there and she's standing there with like her hands or like on her chin like this Yeah And you see clear as day dan a scratch on her forearm. Oh no Oh no Uh Holly no, so does it does it mean what does it mean dan? What does it mean?

We don't know? Oh my god It's how does she clear her own name? Right, uh, I don't think there's ever been any talk about a season two no there shouldn't be there shouldn't be Yeah, I mean It's it is like this sort of self-contained story Um from what I understand also the the ending in the show is different from the book haven't gotten there yet in the book But we'll discuss that on Tuesday. Um, but yeah, that's basically the the end of the show If you watch also at the end of the episode it does that HBO thing where they interview You know the writers and director and some of the actors and stuff.

Yeah, uh, which shines a little bit more light on maybe some of the more ambiguous things Um, but the woman that plays Holly is British. That was a motion. Come on. They're stealing our jobs I they're taking our job.

Oh my god. You're kidding. Oh, yeah, so Um, and I think that is it dan I like I like Holly having a scratch not even in like a Cuz like I don't know. Oh, cuckoo's a freaking metaphor right?

He's like a trauma monster and like she is forever changed by this She lost yes. She loved and lost absolutely. It's so it's like Whether el cucko lives or not. Oh cucko lives because el cucko is all of us and I kind of A cuckoo.

I like the I do like the fact that like Like sort of the the lesson and like the I think the thing that's hard It's weird because it's like there's this like unifying explanation for what happened within the show, right? It's like there's a monster a shape shifting monster but still The truth the logic of how it operates is like the thing that is hard for everybody to confront Which is that it just happens like cruelly and at random and like in this like animal Like machine like way where it just needs to keep perpetuating Right. I mean that's like and I think that's there are sorry. Yeah, go ahead.

No, no go ahead. Well, I mean, that's like I think that's just the thing Ralph can't confront about His son's death also, right? It's sure this cold uncaring universe kind of thing right. Yeah, what were you gonna say?

um Oh, well now you know I forgot what I was gonna say. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, it's okay.

It's like I'm sure it was not It was not important. Um, all right. Is there anything else you want to talk about within within the show before we get to um the Oh, well, you took my transition away from me. I was gonna say well, there's one thing I'd like to talk about I'd like to talk about what hurt my parts What are your parts?

I'm kind of hard-pressed to think of what hurt my parts Yeah, I so I tried I actually I took I took a pretty good amount of notes on this the back half of this season here And while I was doing that I was like really trying to like lock in what I didn't like because as the end was approaching I was like, oh, man. I don't know if there's anything really about that this show that I did not like yeah I could the only thing I could really come up with was like that flashback in the cave. Yeah, maybe went on for a little too long That's what I that's exactly what I was gonna say is like I understand the importance of that because it explains how we end up at this cave But I also think it would have been sufficient to be like he liked the dark. Yeah, sure.

I mean like I like Having talked about with you now. I like the aspect of like oh well this misery Happened within the town like the town experienced this huge loss. Yeah, right? It like it ruined the town like everybody's family was affected by it Families and like seal says he's like you don't like most people in this town don't know about that because most people left after that like yeah Yeah, so right so like I the importance of that the cave, you know scenes and whatever I totally get that I just think it went on a little too long It was like intercutt throughout the entire episode and I thought it like like I said like I thought it was gonna lead to like Much more of a just a bigger payoff and not just like oh, this is you know This is backstory of the cave and why the cave is just misery non-stop.

Yeah So Yeah, it felt be labored and like the payoff was not great. Yeah, it wasn't as great. Yes So our parts are barely nary a scratch on these parts. I gotta say thank God parts unscathed We don't we what if definitely don't want any scratches if el cucko scratch your penis does he just turn into a big hog?

Yeah, yeah, that's that's the el cucko promise Shining moments. Let's do it Shining moment. How do you here? We have the opposite problem.

How do you pick one? How do you pick one? I know? Fuck man Okay, so again, I wrote down like a couple things here I don't know if there's anything you want to like just jump on right off the bat.

I think the The sniper scene is just like it's so fucking good and it only intense It's so intense like in in that like as an exercise in just like suspense Right it works in and of itself But the reason it pays off so well is because up to that point the show's done such a good job with character building Yes, not just you care about all you do you care about you care about all of them They are all like pretty fleshed out like no sense of like their motivations. It makes ever maybe sable. I felt like he was kind of thin Um, yeah, I mean I definitely thought sable was gonna die In that shootout. I was kind of surprised that he didn't do you remember I did make yeah I was gonna say do you remember the last episode when um I think he said about Andy or like he seems like a guy who's gonna die and you were right but Yeah, you had no idea how right you were.

I know I actually before the the shootout when they were just like driving out there Um, I just I riled on like I just wrote down like a quick list of everybody that I thought was gonna die. Yeah, um, yeah Would you have just like who who was in your uh, your dead pool there? Yeah, you took the under I'm sure oh, yeah You cover the spread Uh, holly's boyfriend the lawyer I thought both brothers and and I thought that uh, uh, I can't remember the guy's name sable But sable was gonna die as well. I was pretty confident clod wouldn't die because I thought maybe we'd get a Uh, what are you talking about on the real clod?

Shoot him? Well, I yes Yes, I definitely thought that that ending where like after all the chaos had settled or whatever and like they went up to clod And he was like, oh rock fella my leg or something. Yeah, I thought that they which like I you know again haven't read gotten to the book I don't know if this is in that there but the the part where el cucko transforms like his face and everything I almost felt like that was to tell the Viewing audience. This is definitely el cucko.

The real clod is actually outside. Yeah, you know, I think otherwise it might get a little confusing Yeah, yeah, no real reason that otherwise Yeah, um, so yeah, I had the shoot out. Um, uh, I really I liked uh, uh, uh, uh, I really liked the ending after el cucko like The whole thing everything basically leading up to the ending right is Ralph Trying to make sense of all this stuff in a logical way Hold on. I'm wrapping this up Um, he's trying to make sense of this in a rational sort of way So like when he goes down there and like he knows that this is a supernatural thing and whatever and he kills it Maybe maybe not but I don't know the That's not a satisfying conclusion for Ralph right?

Ralph is still a detective. Um, he still even though this guy this el cucko isn't going to be brought to justice Um, he still wants to get justice for tearing like he's still concerned with like real world things Right, so the actual like satisfaction that he gets is is at the end when Terry's name is quick Yeah, you know, so I just really like that part. I agree. I think it's good.

Um All right, you want to do some tropes. I got a few of them. Let's do it. Let's do it Okay, if you say You just need to trust this Sir to bloodline be by Drive a great distance just tonight just tonight King tropes king tropes.

So I got I got a few here Hit me. Well, let's start with the one in the song right driving a great distance just to die. It happens a lot Happens quite a bit What's what's more than a trope at this point? A law?

Yeah Yeah So that's that's a given. Um, yeah saying you're not going to participate in the monster hunt with the other protagonists But then showing up later Of course, and then more fundamentally of course forming like a mystery ink style gang of monster hunters with the other protagonists Right. Um, I have a town tragedy lost to time which creates an ideal home for a monster Salem slot That's good. Um forming a posse to save a missing kid and everyone dies Uh, of course, you know, I'm thinking of silver bullet right Uh hallucinated dead mother.

Oh, yeah, that's that's a lot of that Yeah, I can't even think of a specific example, but that just like there's I mean We could even say hallucinated dead relative and go with um, who's the one who has like the spina bifida or whatever? Yeah, yeah, that's right. There we go. Um, I I found a lot of like sort of parallels between this and it yes, yeah, so yes I so like the the the ragtag kind of group that comes together to fight like this ancient evil whatever Um, you know descending down into a cave for sure.

I did for sure Um, I think specifically something that feeds on not stuff enough fear, but like suffering Uh, feels adjacent certainly. Um, also like vampire who feeds on the suffering of children is basically rose the hat Oh, yeah, so a lot of that uh speaking of rose the hat ambushing the woods Oh, yeah, that that's yeah very doctor sleepy. Yeah, we just all one of those. Yeah, um, Here I got a good one for you.

You ready? Yep. Nice relationship between a detective and his wife What is that from that would be misery? I guess it's more like a sheriff probably but no, but they have a nice relationship to it.

Yeah, um speaking of detectives though motion mouth detectives You know, you know, I'm thinking of what's his name I'm going to glory Uh, hey, here's one and this may be kind of a kind of a stretch but dark halves What is this just like an evil doppelganger? Yeah evil doppelganger. That's a good one. And then oh, here's a very specific one This is another Salem slot for you.

Ready? Yeah, death of matriarch after death of child slash death of family with patriarch last standing Uh, uh, the uh those uh the glig boys. That's right. Yes.

Yep. Um, I have uh the number 27 Um Oh, yes another hit parallel. Yes, it it Pennywise comes back every 27 years. Uh, this creature feeds every 27 days Um seems very, uh, you know specific.

I wonder what's up with that. I don't know. He likes 19. He likes 27.

Yeah Yeah, I mean, that's it. I think you uh, you said a couple that I had but yeah, I mean I think that this is what I mean. I I love this fucking show. I thought it was great.

I agree. Um, This is also though what happens when you've written 57 or 58 books is that there might be some overlap? Yeah, it's it's not a bad that like these are just devices and yeah, it works. It all works really fucking well.

And that's the thing like it it doesn't always work. So it's not just like I don't think it's as simple as just like pressing a button. You still have to like Construct the story around it. You need to make it pay off when it happens.

Totally. Um, so yeah, no shade. No shade here. No Bring us to our Not no longer penultimate segment.

Yes, it does. This is where we're slimer Is all over that hay All over the hay and those that chair that chair he got so much slime on that chair that poor mayor winning him had to burn it She had to burn that chair in the backyard. I love it. Ralph is like, uh, we're short a chair and she's like, yeah, I am getting rid of it.

I don't I don't want I don't want to keep the chair that elk hoo go sati when he came to visit me to tell me something bad was gonna happen Right. She's like I I've already it's out in the garage. I'm gonna put it out there on garbage day And I've already ordered a new chair. Yeah, I like that.

She says unless you want to drive it to the dump today that's cool too Really not not giving him a moment to think about it. No, no, no, uh, yeah, that was that was very good Yeah, and that was where was slimmer show slimy sound it truly is and this is gonna bring us to our penultimate segment Um, what's it called? I am db. I am db Sorry, there's a gigantic ad on IMDB that I got distracted because I could not see anything It was just a gigantic advertisement.

Anyway, so one of the Websites just do that now where it's like oh, you've opened our website here Let me take up 75% of the screen with an ad that you do not that will not register And it's weird there's like a collapse expand button in the corner But when I clicked it it stayed the same size It's just like it would act like it was gonna collapse like something would happen But then it would just start playing a video that I didn't want to watch Anyway, this is IMDB where we compare our opinion of the movie against the weighted averages are scoring IMDB dot com Robbie mm-hmm 87 Thousand I'm trying to find the exact number here. I can't where is it? Alright, we're just gonna say 87,000 souls. Okay Rated this slot they wait in they logged on time db.com 87,050.

Really? Yeah, why am I not seeing that my goodness? Did you um, did you click on the IMDB rating? Did I click on the IMDB rating?

Let me think about this Well, yeah, I've only been doing this for 20 for it in years Whatever Anyway 87,000 and 50 sold logged on IMDB dot com to Give their opinion of the outsider and they awarded it a weighted average use of score of 7.7 out of 10 stars Rob Mm-hmm thoughts Too low Nine Nine Wow You heard me. I can't do that That's fucked up dude. I couldn't talk to it 8.5. I have a fear of commitment 8.5.

Yeah, sorry dude You just have to live with sorry dude. Yeah, you're fucking you could be out on them by yourself I'm not going there with you. Yeah, I'm gonna let them uh they can come for your head in the comments not me Playing it safe 8.5. No, I was gonna say flat 8.

Um, yeah, it's very good. I just like I don't know Didn't quite hit as hard for me for some reason. I guess I'm more of a party like a type of guy I know yeah, I feel like you know We sort of talked about this very thing at the beginning where I said the show fox and you were like I just really like yeah That's kind of it. I mean like again grading on a curve though like In the context of this show and stuff we've watched recently holy shit.

It's head and shoulders above the competition Yeah, it's not HBO, baby. It's it's it's tv. It's tv. It's tv.

It's tv. It's tv Um, that should be like the CW slogan. It's not hb o tv And then archie starts playing riverdale. Yeah Well, that feels good.

Yeah, I mean it's a great show whatever number you want to ascribe to it It's a great show. We love it here. And I guess with that in mind we can mosey on over to our final segment Shows over shows over shows over Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the program as always Rob Dan I want to go with a snack Yeah, I got to go eat dinner.

Yeah, reminder if you if you listen to this whole thing You probably want to go to the patreon patreon.com slash king v pod get weekly bonus content you get to hear us talk about the book the outsider heard of it And it's a pretty rousing discussion There's yeah, no the yeah every Tuesday you get a new episode of something we mix it up on Tuesdays Every other friday. Well, we're we're talking some sort of genre film. Yes. Um, we just Recorded and released last week.

Yes. Sometimes the genre is for babies. That's the genre of that's right Right for babies and sometimes those those movies for babies Uh, we like to get you right between the nipples there right in the old heart That's got me right in the car between the apples. Yeah Squared me up got me right between the dinner plates All right until next time I am Dan.

I am also Dan Stephen King Stephen King