Why The Bassist From Phish Is Funding Research Into ‘Flow State’

from Science Friday · host Flora Lichtman, Dee Peterschmidt

The band Phish has toured for over 40 years. One of the draws of their legendary live shows—which can go on for 8 hours—is finding moments of “flow,” when the band members lock into an improvised jam, finding new musical ideas in real time.Phish fans live for these transcendent moments, but so do the musicians—to the point that Mike Gordon, the band’s bass player, is funding scientific research to better understand flow state.Host Flora Lichtman sits down with Mike and his research collaborator, neuroscientist Greg Appelbaum, to unpack their research so far and how it’s helping to inform other neuroscience.Guests:Mike Gordon is bassist and co-founder of the rock band Phish. Dr. Greg Appelbaum is a professor in the department of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego.Transcripts for each episode are available within 1-3 days at sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Follow our show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Bluesky @scifri and sign up for our newsletters. Got a science question that’s keeping you up at night? Call us: 877-472-4374 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What this episode covers

Phish bassist Mike Gordon is teaming up with neuroscientists to try to understand the transcendent experience of musical flow state.

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Why The Bassist From Phish Is Funding Research Into ‘Flow State’

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This episode was published on November 12, 2025.

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