The following is an operation podcast production. Lindsay Pearson. She's on the show today. I'm going to tell you her bio.
Lindsay Pearson is the founder of Do You Mindfully, a corporate wellness company that believes in investing in employee well-being, amplifies results and thriving businesses. She's a mindfulness based stress reduction teacher, a registered yoga teacher, a certified workplace mindfulness facilitator, mindful leader, and she's led lots and lots of workshops. So she's also the author of the distraction detox, a self-care workbook. Now, I don't know if you saw this Instagram post where I'm like, it's summer.
Do you think I'm talking about bathing suits? I'm not. Go look at it. Look, go look at it.
Do you think she's talking about mindfulness today? Not really. And that's so on the nose, folks. I mean, I'm really, I hope I've given you more than just, you know, that.
So Lindsay's is really dear friend of mine. I've actually, but for whatever it's worth, if you're looking for a good person to do some mindfulness with, she's great. I've used her as a junk, to leave with so many clients that I've worked with. But Lindsay has had a couple of years.
And so anyway, you know how I am? I'm like, so Lindsay, we've had like Bob Roth on the show. He like runs the transcendent, the David Lynch Foundation, you know, Minash Diaz. We've had all these nightfulness people on like, we all know about mindfulness.
And if we don't, you know, go rewind, those are great podcasts. I was like, Lindsay, do you think you would be willing to talk about this like treacherous dark night of the soul couple of years that you've had and what it's like to be in that kind of darkness and be a meditation teacher? I just know for me, like, oh, it's so, you know, and what do you do? And how do you use like mindfulness when you're in darkness and how are you human?
Like anyway, she's a great friend and she went there. Yeah, she went there. She went there. Is it just, it makes my stomach a knot to listen to people, talk about, you know, the darkness and how they do it and how they get through it.
And let me tell you something, this episode does not let you down. It's really good. Take a breath, you know, if you're, if you're power walking at 3.7, maybe you want to be power walking at 3.4 to really take this in. Really want to thank Lindsay for being so brave and really want to thank you for being a part of this community.
Make sure you're on my mailing list so we can get into our self-love bootcamp or whatever it is we choose to name it. It's really dope y'all and enjoy the episode. See you next week. Hi, Lenz.
Hello. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to see you.
I brought two beverages for the occasion. Oh my gosh. I brought coffee. I brought water.
You have tea. I have tea. There was something I saw on Instagram where all the truth lives of it was like any good woman is surrounded by at least half a dozen lukewarm beverages. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I have a lot of water bottles at all times. I limit to two cups of coffee. I'm actually, it's 11.05 and I'm going to down this because I like to stop at 11. So Lindsay, I love you.
I am excited to talk to a meditation teacher today who's a friend because I've had a lot, I mean, apologies to Bob Roth, but he's my teacher. This is my friend, Lindsay. Am I also my friend, Lindsay, who I have sent countless people, friends, clients, etc, to learn meditation and mindfulness with. And I just had this idea like, I want like mindfulness teacher, like real talk.
And so here's what I know. We talked about this before the show. I was like to start recording this one the first time. I was like, anyway, so Lindsay's a really dear friend and she's just had like a hell of a year.
And I was like, oh, sister friend, let me know if you want to talk. And you didn't. I was like, oh, I know those two. Yeah.
So I was just thinking about you because I think there's just like, we can listen to eight billion podcasts about the utility of mindfulness and meditation and we can listen to eight billion more about how to and I, you know, even even listen to it if you scroll up on what you're craving. But I just want to understand in the most true way that you're able to talk to us about it, which is like when you're in these really dark times of struggle and you have all of these skills, you're a teacher, you know, what happens? So talk us your turn. Oh my goodness.
Yeah. Okay. Well, we have about 45 minutes. Maybe we'll have you on five times.
Maybe this will be a series. Who knows? I got my coffee. I don't even want to talk.
Just talk me through this. Well, thank you. Thank you for first of all. Thank you for having me.
I knew I was a little nervous beforehand because I knew I'm like, if I know Molly, we're going to get into the real, you know, it's not going to be surface level. Like, tell us about your book or your way. Yeah. So here we are.
So I've been practicing mindfulness, mindfulness meditation for about 14 years and about five years into that I launched my company because I saw the difference it made in a particularly horrible time in my life when the person I loved was sleeping with one of my close friends and this is like a long time. Yes. Wow. That was 2014.
So that's when you became a mindfulness and meditation teacher because of a hardship. What made you decide to connect those dots? Okay. We're going to get all the stuff out there.
Yeah. I'm a shrink. I'm also my friend. Yeah.
You guys are always right. Another friend on the show. She's like, yeah, I mean, I just knew I was going to have to bring the truth to Molly show. That's what we do.
Yeah. I love language. So I, you know, and just to pause right before this, I actually said a little prayer that I was like, let me just be of service. Whatever I say today, let it be of service.
So I hope that whatever I say today helps someone in me sharing this is that hope that it will help somebody. Oh, no, it will. It will. I know that.
That's why I asked you. Come on. And so we were, I was in Atlantic City with an on again off again, love and I had to borrow his phone for a conference call and I'm not the girl I want to practice by saying I'm not the person who goes through somebody's phone. I don't, I think that is much, it's very indicative of deeper issues, right?
If you need to be going through somebody's phone, something else is going on. But I was using his phone for a conference call and I died and I saw a text pop up that was like, what? And long story short, it turned out that, yeah, he was sleeping with a very good friend of mine. And I mean, this was a very good friend of mine.
So it was like a double pain of this is the person I love and this is also somebody else who I trusted and I had told how I felt about him. And so there was this deep feeling of betrayal that I will never forget that I was standing on this balcony of this hotel villa thing in Atlantic City and I am looking out going like, okay, I could murder him. Option one, murder him. Option two, drink, relapse, right?
Yeah, you're sober. Listeners and I'm sober. So I could, I could drink and relapse. And this part, I also say, I don't say this lightly.
I mean, I really looked at the balcony and was like, I could jump like I could. Oh, so I know that's my first thought. I was like, oh, so I could kill myself. So I was in that story.
I was like, okay, I could jump off the balcony. Yeah. I could go completely obliterated. I didn't killing it would be my last choice.
I don't know. Honestly, actually it was. Yeah, I love us. I just didn't want to leave with like the jumping off the balcony.
But yeah, that was the first thought. I jumped. Yeah, because my first thought was like, I should just die now because no help worked out ever in my life. I go there.
My friend has betrayed me. Love of my life is, yeah, I was like, might as well just pew pew. And in that moment, I remembered a teaching from the meditation training that I was in, which is the acronym Stop, Stop, Take a Breath, Observe, Proceed. And it seems so simple.
But I remember in that moment, time stood still and I quite literally stopped and was like, I don't want to do any of those things. I'm upset. I'm hurt. And I just felt that pain.
And then I reached out and called a friend. And that was it. And I remember he was sitting there, the love of interest was sitting there kind of like, when are you going to kill me? When is the other shoe going to drop?
When are you going to flip out? He was so accustomed to, you know, what I would say a fairly normal response would be of flipping out, at least yelling. And instead we sat down and we had a whole really honest conversation. And I just remember thinking, this is not possible.
If not for the tools of mindfulness. It was just this very clear feeling of, oh, mindfulness meditation, these are not just like theoretical esoteric concepts. This actually worked in real time from preventing me from doing something. I would regret forever.
So that was a very pivotal moment. And then saying, okay, if this is working for me, then how do I share it with other people? So very soon after doing some additional trainings, I launched my company. But yeah, I would say the majority of the deepening of my practices happened in horrible, horrible times.
I do look back and I have since said to that X, like, I am so grateful this happened because I would not have my business if not for that event. It wouldn't have happened. And I think for a lot of us, that's true. How did you even find mindfulness to be saying, like in that moment, you use that stop skill?
That's a DBT. What is that from? What, that's from DBT, but where else is that from? Yeah.
So I was in the mindfulness based stress reduction program, the A-week program. And yeah, there's a lot of overlap between. Oh, yeah. Well, Marshall, Lan and so I was on Buddhist priests.
So of course it is. But like, how did you come even to decide to do that? I agree with you. I always feel like in these times of darkness, it's like, it's like grower die, G-O-D.
It's like, treat in my spiritual Chevy for a Cadillac and then a bigger car. And then it's, I don't know, I don't know. This last one was pretty gnarly, but it's like I come out different from it. Absolutely.
How did you come even to think that you should do mindfulness based? Like, did that come from crisis also? Well, yeah. So backing up even further to another dark time, let's just talk about all of them.
Listen, but the anatically everybody should hear this. Like, it's really, you get to choose what you do in the dark time. Yeah. I got sober at a yoga and meditation center and I was not intentional.
Right? Tell me that's a story. Let me hear that one. Yeah.
So I went, I was fired from my dream job as an MBA publicist and they were like, you might want to look at your drinking. Okay. And I was spiraling out. And my mother, God bless her, said, Hey, why don't we go to Kripalu out in Western Mass and spend a couple days there.
And I had no interest in yoga and no interest in meditation and was like, well, I have literally nothing else going on. So, wait, does that, I've been, you know, I've had so many hangovers at Kripalu, but is that before? I mean, the amount of like binging Kripalu and I have a very long history, but is that before they had coffee there? Like what year was that?
Oh my gosh. You remember those times I used to wake up in the morning at Kripalu go to Dunkin Donuts get like six donuts, smoke a cigarette, have like four cups of coffee and then like wonder why I was like so miserable in like yoga. I tell you, if I had a car, I would have, I didn't have a car. I was trapped.
Yeah, that's terrible. Because then eventually they brought coffee on and I had gotten sober and put smoking and all these other things. I have years of Kripalu of just like Cheeto bags and cigarette butts and like then wondering why it isn't working, you know. Right.
No, and this was the second time I had gone there. Apparently I went some other time that I had like no recollection of. So it was probably more like what you were just describing on this particular trip. I was trapped there.
I would have chewed my arm off or a Diet Coke. And yeah, so I, my last drink, I didn't know it at the time, but my last drink was on the bus from New York City to Kripalu to Bud Light Tallboys at 8am. Yeah. Or just at Port Authority.
So class. Just a different level of class. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Less than I think I was some classy cocktail drinker. I remember explaining to the cashier why I was buying these beers at 8am. He was like, I don't care.
He's like, I don't care at all. You're like my shame needs you to hear this. Yes. I concocted some whole story.
Like, Oh, I'm going to be on the bus this long and there's no rest. I've been working nights and he's like, yeah, okay, you got your money. Great. Bye.
So yeah, I took the bus out there. I drank on the way there and something unintentional. But as we call a God shot happened as I was there where a woman was leading a medicine meditation that I later came to find out was called the loving kindness meditation. And somehow it just cut through the noise.
And so powerful. We do it. You teach us it really quickly. It's so good.
I wasn't going to ask her to bring her skills here, but it's so good. Of course it cuts through. Just tell us like, give us like the, you can all Google it, but give us the, I just did it in one of my retreats and it like blew everyone out of the water. And it's so simple.
Tell us what it is. Yeah. Well, so you, you generally speaking, you can do this a few different ways, but generally speaking, you will offer kindness, boundless friendliness. There's no direct translation of meta.
Loving kindness, boundless friendliness phrases towards yourself, toward a loved one, a benefactor, towards a neutral person, towards a challenging person and towards the world of all beings without exception. And so you take time and these phrases can be whatever feels authentic for you, but often it's something along the lines of, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you have peace. And, and sometimes it's really interesting as you move through, you repeat this three, four times to each, each person and, and sending it out, not just from this robotic like, you know, peace be with you, right? But it's, it's really trying to connect with that offering, this freely given gift.
And sometimes for me, it's, it's hardest to give it to myself. Oh, yeah. Sometimes you're like, give to someone I don't like before myself, sometimes sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Which, so then that's where you can play with it too. And sometimes you can offer that wish towards the benefactor, the, the person who is maybe like a easy to love. And then you can try to like a spotlight turn it around towards yourself.
But it's something where that repetition of phrases, may you be happy, may be healthy, may you have peace, may you have ease. And just saying that with that full hearted wish, like whatever the challenges that you're facing yourself or with that challenging person, often you can break it down and think if this person were truly happy, if they were truly of sound mind and healthy, if they had ease and peace in their life, they probably wouldn't be doing the things that are bothering you. So, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I to pray for the, you pray for the person you, that's troubling you, you pray for them to have all the things you would wish for yourself.
And I got through it like that. Like, I was like, yeah, I mean, I guess they wouldn't be terrorizing me if I felt happy if they had a safe place to live, if they had love in their life, you know, if they had a warmer heart. So anyway, that's how I don't even know that and I know you for so long. That's a great story.
So that cracked your heart open and then you're like, hey, I'll probably stop killing myself with alcohol. Well, I mean, like a good addict, I was like, I want more than that. I'm like, what's that? Yeah, we more than that.
I know I got so addicted to spirituality. I mean, still, and like I'll be a shaman. I'll be a reiki. Yeah.
Yeah. Of course that is a very common experience because yeah, we love that feeling and we love feeling good and we love helping people and it can all have like a whole other podcast in and of itself. But what so for me, what the other additional God shot was that later, so I hear this meditation, I experienced 10 seconds of peace. I want more of that, not really sure what that looks like.
But as I'm walking through the halls, no joke, I trip over a book that's just laying on the ground or something. And it is the woman who had just led that meditation, her name is Aruni Nan. She wrote a book about being a woman getting sober in New York City. Stop it.
And at that moment, I like look up at the sky, which at that point was, you know, where I was finding God and I was like, all right. I get it. You're settled. So fast forward.
And so then you started this great company. Do you mind fully? Yeah. So just, yeah, to see more of that along.
So from that day forward, I started practicing meditation. I kind of followed what was in the book, which was, you know, talking about meditation, talking about recovery. So I started practicing that on my own. That was a part of what Humpty Dumpty put me back together again.
And so I was practicing these tools and then wanting to deepen the practice. So I was doing the mindfulness based stress reduction program, which is an eight week program founded by John Cavitz in, which has been around for over 40 years and a lot of clinical background, because for me, I like the blend of the woo and the science. So I love that there was the evidentiary support behind it. So I was studying that at the time that, you know, said, said, Atlantic City trip occurred.
So it was just one of those moments where I had such clarity that this would have looked so different if I didn't have these skills. And I was very clear that I wanted to share that with other people. So I went and did it, like I said, more training and then, yeah, launched the business. And my intention with the business was to work in corporate wellness, because again, like I knew when I was this publicist, I had this dream job and I had zero coping skills.
I had nothing. So my coping skills were two bottles of wine every night, at least. So I wanted to speak to employees and people like me and try to offer them some skills. And so that's what I've been doing for the last almost decade.
And so that was really great and going really well. And then the pandemic hit. And I've never experienced so much anxiety in my entire life. Yeah.
And what I found was that what was your anxiety around it? And that 2020 to 2023, like what were you anxious? I mean, I'm always like a sestone assume that's what my teaching says. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I was I was terrified that my parents and my boyfriend were going to die. That was just like a loop or I was going to somehow inadvertently kill somebody else.
You know, yeah. Yeah. Wow. And I was just deep and dark, just like us on the balcony, deep and dark.
Yeah. You know, I run that way. I just had to lean in. I run deep and dark.
It's what I lean into it. I can really lighten up, you know, because I'm also very fun, but I run deep and dark like that. Right. Yeah.
I like to think of a fun person with a sissy. I find you to be I find you to be extremely fun. I just always, you know, Bernie Brown talks about it so much of like, you know, I got this puppy and I just think, you know, well, what happens when he dies. A hundred percent.
A hundred percent. I can move myself out of it. Of course. But like it's just my initial thought.
I'm like, but he's going to die. Yeah. And he's going to get old and I'm like, you just come back. I was like, postpartum when I got my dog.
I was like, I don't know if I can do this. I just, I don't know if I'm made for this. Oh my gosh. I quite honestly, I was pretty clear.
I didn't want to have children after getting the dog because I was like, my heart is ripped open. I don't think I could handle this on a bigger level. I was going to postpartum. I would just lay on the floor and call my friend Michelle and be like, what did I do?
I'm like, you know, this is, I'm like a canary in a coal mine. I'm just like, I am just so extra. I lean into this extra. Yeah.
I lean into this extra, but it's why I need to have, you know, meditation practices. So there was COVID and the anxiety was out of it. What was it like having that kind of anxiety? And then teaching mindfulness and meditation.
Well, in some ways I was so grateful for the career and the skills I had because it kept me connected in a way that again, I think it would have been another version of the balcony. Where I'm like, well, I could just, you know, I don't have to. And then I know some people who that was a choice early on, like I don't want to go through this and the isolation and people relapsing all over the place. Well, yeah.
And that was the other thing I just, I feel like when I'm listening to a podcast, I'm just thinking about myself. I mean, I think the other thing, you're a mindfulness and meditation teacher, but you and I also have like a big ranging fellowship of people that, you know, I spend a lot of time in circles or try to. And when I don't, I get spiritually sick person. Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah. Like not just at work, you were also in community on Zoom. Yes. I just, if you're listening, we're really giving you some hard skills right now.
Yeah. Yes. If you don't have circles, try to find some circles. Absolutely.
That was one of the things almost immediately, like the day New York shut down. I remember I was on a gratitude list with a couple of people and I said, can we, I just like set the bat signals? Like, can we just, this little group here, can we just make this a quick zoom meeting? And, and now three years later that that meeting has continued every single week, which is pretty wild.
But it was one of those things where I just needed the people I trusted and knew and didn't want to like think any any harder than, OK, hey, let's just. And it wasn't like those people were necessarily my closest friends at the time. It was just. That's a really good point.
No, rally the truth. But we really need, I mean, the thing about anxiety, I think it's so lessened when you have community, like, you know, you just have people to bounce it off of. God, I would never have kept that dog if it wasn't for my my spiritual guide is like, you can make a decision in a month. She put dog for a month.
Yeah. You know, you still don't like the dog in a month. And it was like, that's her main source of things for me in my anxiety. She's like, in a month, you can make that decision in a month.
That's like, you know, she says that enough that sometimes that distortion comes in and I say it's myself now, right? Yeah. Not right now. Let's not make that seems we don't make good decisions impulsively, Molly.
Oh, 100%. That is, I always joke my mentor Lisa. She's like my Jiminy cricket just right here. I'm like, what would she say?
What would she suggest here? Not right. Yeah. Thankfully, I had, yeah, I had a lot of skills at that point.
I mean, I was coming up on 10 years, right? I had the skills of recovery. I had meditation. I had yoga.
I mean, it was like all the things, right? Crystal's oils, whatever, whatever. Yeah. I can sink at it.
And, and I was also talking to God a lot, but I was very, I was very, very afraid. And I think a big turning point was the fact I was in a relationship for the first healthy relationship, the first time. Pretty much of my life. And I was petrified.
I was going to lose it. I just kept playing that scenario out over and over and over again. And then I had a client, a yoga client who was in her 90s with not great health. And that was, it was like those two things that I was ping ponging between like, they don't lose him.
I'm going to kill her. I'm going to lose him. I'm going to kill her. It was like so awful.
And I think it was, you know, I was talking to a therapist. I was trying to do all the things and there was this deep sense of fraud. Like, how are you not better? How are you not calmer?
How are you not healthy? Or how are you like all, all of that? And that was, you know, we talked about the second arrow in Buddhism was like, first arrow is a pain point. This thing that happened, like there you get hit by an arrow.
The second arrow is the one you do to yourself where you're sitting there. Like, why did I get hit by an arrow? Who gets hit by an arrow? Where's an arrow even coming from?
Why do I walk in places that have arrows like judgment, judgment, judgment? Right. So painful enough that I felt so afraid and I was compiling. She calls it terror, cause it double wounding.
I love it. Yeah. The first arrow we hit ourselves, then we have this open wound and our judgment comes in and hits an open wound and there's really no pain like that, our own self harm. Yeah.
So what happened is, but she was like, you know, I get a little bit of pain into self compassion practices because I saw very quickly that like beating myself up for this pain was going to do nothing. And I even relied on the science. And Bernie Brown talking about like guilt can change behavior. Shame.
No, so shi, shaming myself was, was, didn't feel good and was also not effective. So. Can you tell us about what Bernie Brown says about guilt changes, guilt changes behaviors and shame doesn't you know? She was talking, you know, obviously her research is around, uh, she's a social scientists I'm just a researcher.
So the research he had done was around guilt being a helpful tool that can change in modifying behavior. We can self-adjust, but the shame part, which is generally our perception of our self and our behavior, not just the differential being, oh, I did a bad thing versus I am a bad person. Right, guilt being, I did a bad thing. Guilled Marshall in a hand that says that the purpose of guilt is to check in on your own values.
Yes. And sometimes I use the example of like, I can be like real, I mean, in my worst space, there are times in which I have been real shitty to wait staff. And then I think to myself, God, that was really crappy thing to do. And that's just if I guilt, that's kicking in my value system to say, yeah, don't behave that way.
Right? That's not an alignment. But shame would say you're a terrible person for doing that. And there's no coming back from that.
Right. Exactly. Which I think obviously is the nuance that we're missing quite a bit in social media land. That's like distinction of you can do something, you can say something wrong, you can stick your foot in it, you can embarrass yourself, you can.
Yeah, I think social media is also making it like guilt is a bad thing. Guilled is like, if you really lean into like, justify guilt and unjustified guilt and like, I mean, look at my values, is this how I want to be behaving? No. I mean, when I say it a lot of times, like my clients, like we can't be over apologizing all the time too.
Right. And if there's really, if you're chronically unjustified guilt, then you may want to change your behaviors a little bit more, right? Instead of apologizing all day for existing. Yeah.
And that's, and to me, you know, when I talk to my clients about self-compassion, it's clear that when we are asking and we're practicing self-compassion, it is the question of what is in service of our highest or greatest or best self. And when you look at that, like you would a kid and it is not in service of a child or a dog to give them treats all day long, right? Because we hear that self-compassion piece and it's the proverbial bon-bonds on the couch, right? Or like Netflix and fine and jerry's every day.
Right. And instead it's, it's to look at, well, is that actually in service of their best self? No, of course not. You need some vegetables and movement and balance.
And but on the other end of the spectrum, it's not, it's so it can be firm, but not that critical crushing like what a piece of shit you are, you stand on the couch today. Right. So trying to find like, you can be firm without being cruel and trying to, and trying to, well, that, because I think that is like about like, I'm certainly like, think the audience, a lot of the audience listens to the struggles, run struggles with like some food stuff and food. So tricky because you have to eat it.
And sometimes when I'm talking about ways to modify someone, so listen to that diet, I'm just telling me to go on a diet and I'm like, well, we got to have some guidelines of something that I control. Like we need some guardrails here. And I think the same to be said for, you know, like what you're saying self-compassion, it's like, yeah, like I want to try not to be cruel to people 100% of the time. And when I do, I want to be loving reflective kind to myself, say, wow, something happened, that happened, repair that, out externally, repair that within yourself.
So wait, I have a question. Now, this is true that I have editors on the show and I can edit this out. So you can say to me, I don't want to talk about this. So I know to be true that that client died and then that relationship ended.
And that's the real darkness. Do you want to talk about that? No, that's fine. That's fine.
Oh, my worst fears gave Drew. Today. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, okay. I don't know why we wouldn't be friends with her anymore.
It's happening right now. I'm gonna slam the computer, stop, bye. No. Oh, my worst fears are coming to you by asking that.
Everyone's doing their work right now. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Those two things happen to you. Yeah.
And you're a meditation teacher with all the things that I did about COVID. And you're living, breathing beauty on a screen. What happened? I survived.
Right, spoiler alert. That is a spoiler alert. It was so dark and I was with you. You were?
And I appreciate that. And I want to say that too, a lot of people too. It's like sometimes people don't pick up the phone but like just knowing somebody is there. because we don't all cope with grief the same way, right?
I got through something so similar and I was listening to you talk about it. And I just, I text you and I said that. I said listen, I don't know if you wanna talk, but I'm here and I'm on the other side and I love you. And it meant so much.
And I wasn't ready to talk at that point. And yeah, I was still kind of reeling, but it meant so much and I do appreciate that deeply. And I really mean that. Like it's so, I think some of the greatest things that happen in fellowship is that phrase like, yeah, I've been through that, me too.
Like I know what you're- And for the listener, like I didn't personalize it at all. I talked to like three people and I was in that darkness, and I didn't, I got to choose who those people were. So what did you, like what happened? And what happened?
Like you guys were like, you had to separate houses. Yeah, so we were planning on getting married, maybe talking children, we had a dog, we lived in a house in the suburbs of New Jersey. It was, yeah, it was really, it was coming together or so I thought and I'll never forget this, it was a Wednesday night. We put in an offer for a house.
And by Thursday morning we had broken up. So, and that was like the first of August and we had to be out of the house that we were currently in by the end, we'd given notice, we were gonna be leaving this house because we were gonna go buy another house or get a short-term rental, but we were buying a house. So we'd already given notice we were moving out of this one. And so now it's like, we have 30 days to pack everything out and get out and I have to find a place to live.
He had a place to live, that's another story. But the, so we break up and yeah, it's like I'm on the bathroom floor solving, right? It's that kind of, oh my God. And then panic, where am I gonna go?
What about the dog? And then within a week after that, my client died and then another dear friend had tried to commit suicide. It was really dark. And then the icing on the shit cake was we both got COVID.
So, like all the fears happening. All the fears at the same time. And so here we are, the two of us, we're stuck in the house together trying to pack up the house and we are so sick and it is just brutal. And trying to obviously take care of the dog as well, as we're sick and packing up.
It was just so crazy. But what I, a couple of things happened there. For one, my therapist, I've been working, God bless her, Sarah Waters, I'm just gonna give you a shout out because she's a wonderful, you know, a little bit therapist. She had been saying for a long time, like, hey, you know, you have been wrestling with some anxiety issues, other mental health issues, some complex PTSD, some DV stuff from past like.
What's DV stuff or those? Some domestic violence stuff from earlier relationships. And she was recommending medication and she had been recommending medication and I was a hard no. I mean, I was like, hey, you know, yo, God, meditation and the oils.
And no, I will like literally do anything to avoid this. And she was loving and patient and wasn't forcing me in any way. But the beauty of that really, really dark time was that it cracked open the door for me to say, you know what? I have been trying to manage this on my own and do all of the things.
Maybe I should be willing to accept some additional help. And it was really hard as a teacher because I felt again, that fraud, you should come up like, you should be better than this. Do you think it's not fraud? Do you think it's just shame?
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You ever hear that one? Should have already mastered everything.
Shoulding all over yourself? No, but that's SHAME. Yeah, that's, oh, that's good. Should have already mastered everything.
Oh my God, I'm gonna keep that with me. No, I've not heard that. Yeah, pass it along. I just heard it somewhere, you know.
I didn't make it up. I wish I didn't make it up. I think that's my entire life. You just have to get an afternoon.
It's a coaching call and you didn't even know it. Oh my God, it's so good. I mean, that directs my whole life choices. Oh, I'm gonna pick basketball instead of soccer.
I was just having this conversation with my father. Why? Because I was inherently good at basketball and I didn't wanna do something. I wasn't good at school.
Gotting that the story. Oh my God, that's so funny. But yeah, so that was, that was a pretty... You picked up an extra tool.
Yeah. But like, those meditation practices and mindfulness practices that you had, you weren't like, oh, I'm just gonna go on meds and stop meditating everyday, right? No, oh my God. That's what, I'm so glad we are talking about it because that's what was so unbelievable to me in retrospect was now I had the access to all of these tools and could actually implement them.
That's fascinating. It was like all of a sudden it went from what I described, like Times Square, noise, everything loud, everything's in your face. So, you know, you're trying to, again, like if you use that as an example, you're trying to meditate in Times Square. Okay, you can do it.
You can do it. You absolutely can do it with enough practice. But like, do you need to choose the hardest way? Yeah.
Do you need to try to have a conversation with yourself? Listen, I have this, one of my team members, Liz, I was really struggling and she was like, listen, I just wanna say, I think it should be easier for you. She said, I just, it makes me sad that you're, I was taking cold showers and working so hard and I made this decision to do ketamine, this is a therapy, remember, I had the same experience. I mean, I was like, who knew?
I said to my therapist, I didn't, and it's really changed my life, you know, but then last month I decided to stop meditating and I got, you know, really, like, it's not, there's this like childlike belief in many of us that there is an endpoint to healing, right? And like, and dialectically, we're never healed, right? Like there's no endpoint. So if you're chasing the endpoint, that's not the point.
And if you're thinking one thing is gonna, like it's just a little bit more dynamic than that. Yes. And every now and then we like, pick a little anxiety, man, do a little psychedelic journeying. Like, and this is how I feel about people with like their food plans even.
Like, you know, that changes too. It all changes. That's the only thing we got. Absolutely.
And that's where I think, for me, I was definitely somebody who was living in extremes. Like, you know, obviously went from being the person who was taking every pill, doing all the things, like, no, my body is a pure temple. Nothing in it and boo to the pharmaceutical industry. No, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, just, just pendulum swing.
And so for me, I think what this feels like is more being more in the middle of like, okay, you know, what is right for me and seeing that, oh, I felt like I had my me back. Finally, the person who was like, oh, I can do breathwork and I feel the difference. Wow. Yeah, you were so, you were so in such a trauma state that it wasn't even working.
Yeah. I'm gonna be a polyvagal right now, by the way. Oh my gosh. And that's always every listener because we just had someone talking about it and stuff.
But that was the thing. I'd be doing exercises for the vagus nerve and it'd be like, this doesn't work. I'd be doing breathwork. This isn't working.
Nothing's working and I'm more and more terrified. And yeah, it was just such a high. Well, you know what I found too? Like, and I don't know, like in my times of darkness, it's like when I wasn't accepting, you know, my own, you know, spiritual physical, emotional health, there was this really, and I was very good at my job as you are.
And that was what felt fraudulent, was that I was able to be useful to others. But I needed a different kind of help. And they just didn't, like I was making it like, well, if I can be helpful to others, I should be able to heal myself. And it's like, that's like, I don't think any sense at all, right?
Like I can do heart surgery, but I can't do it on my side. It's like, it doesn't make sense. Right, right. Well, it's the story of Chiron, right?
The wounded healer. Oh, I don't know that story. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
So Chiron, the healer who he has injured, and he spends his whole, he's the basis for the medical profession, I believe is like, is that a quest of, you're always trying to heal that wound, that origin wound in yourself. And you never heal, you go out trying to help others in the hopes that that also along the way brings some healing. But yeah, it's like that origin wound that is always, always there and we can't heal ourselves. And that's, yeah, it's very humbling, but that's where kind of again, I come back around to the self-compassion piece where I could actually talk to myself and go, hey, you're really struggling.
Let's try this out. Let's see how it feels. And if it doesn't align, it doesn't work. We don't have to continue, right?
We don't have to continue. And it doesn't make you less than, it doesn't make you fake, fraud, right? Let's just see what we can do here and be willing to just give something else a try. You've done valuing trying all these other things.
But also, there's a line where it becomes martyrdom. Well, that's like what Liz was saying. Liz is like, I feel like you work too hard and you're not getting out of concern with it. Right.
And it was like a really brave thing, I think, for her to say to me, just like your therapist, you know, just like your therapist to say that. And I was considering all of this and she just said, I'm so glad you're doing that because I just don't think it should have to be so hard for you. And thank you for saying that because I think there is also, certainly in the recovery community, but just generally speaking, we kind of had this like, periodical structure. I don't even take Advil.
Yeah, I get it. It must be hard. Yeah, no, I, by the way, that it's very addictive. It's very addictive in that.
And it really reinforces the not enoughness. Like, right, like if you think about that wound of like, well, I'm on it, it's like, yeah, I don't really get you there quickly. How are you now? What's going on now?
What's going on now? What's the current? Yeah, yeah. So, so all my worst fears came true.
And that was something in and of itself, though, that was so freeing because there they were, there they were, like instead of being the boogeyman, just hanging over my shoulder, it was like, I have lost this relationship and this woman has passed away. And then just to add more to it, my dad got COVID too. So it was like, right? All the things you had all the things.
All the things. All the things. All the things. And what I saw was for me, a higher power working in my life, because when I was able to lean back, I knew that I was taken care of.
There was a place I could stay. I had, you know, a neighbor in New Jersey, who was like, you want to move into my basement? I'm here, you know, people like you reaching out, like I've been through this so I could see people survive this. I knew that the woman who passed away, she was 97.
She had lived an incredible life. And she died in the best way possible. I mean, she was watching Turner Classic movies surrounded by her family. Like that was her dream.
So, and she was such a beautiful person. So there was all of this, all of these gifts of like, also realizing this relationship, I'd been holding him hostage. We were not meant to be together. And we didn't want to let go.
And that was freeing. Like he did for me what I couldn't do. He was able to walk away. Wow.
And that was. That's a look, huh? It was so painful, but ultimately I knew it was the right, the right thing. And so in that, like there was a freedom in just walking through the things I was the most scared of, it's like, well, the worst things have happened.
So, you know, bring it on. Like what else? So that there is freedom in that happening. The other part was I ended up moving in with my mother at age 41, me and the dog moved in with mom.
So you kept the dog. I'm actually waiting to hear that. Oh, yeah, I did. Thank you.
I was very clear that that was. That was good to go. We talked about the co-parenting, but it was just like that. And so I moved to Boston.
I moved in with my mom, which I thought was going to be for about six weeks. It has now been nine months. And she lives on the beach. And what I, again, for me, is like, you know, good orderly direction, but for me also great outdoors.
And seeing the rhythm and the pull of nature, seeing the Fibonacci sequence in the shells, seeing the tides, seeing the sunrise, and like being there and just like, oh, I'm not in charge. There is something else here. And even the whole COVID thing, when I got to Boston the day after I got there, my dad got COVID. And because I had just recovered from it, I could go be with him.
I could go change his meds. I could go help him so he could not be alone because he's got dementia and like help him. I could show up. It was these moments where I was like, if all of this crap hadn't happened, we didn't break up.
And I didn't, I wasn't forced to move to Massachusetts. And I got COVID, I wouldn't be here in this moment to help him. I'm finding this prayer. I used to read, God, it's so good.
Okay. Should we end the podcast with this prayer? Absolutely. It's from Carolyn Mase.
It reminds me exactly of what you're saying. I'm obsessed with you. All right. She says, Carolyn Mase is a big God person.
So I mean, shut off the podcast. But this is the best prayer. It's from her book. I'm going to send it to you.
I'm going to send you this book. I'm going to type a book. What's it called? Divine Grace, something prayers with the bangers.
I forget. I'll put it in charge. Don't let everybody. She says, Lord, grant me the grace of wonder.
Rather than fearing change in the unknown, let me embrace the unknown with a sense of wonder. Instead of closing down and fearing the worst, let the grace of wonder open my imagination and my senses. Life runs on cycles. All things come to an end.
And yet every end means a new beginning. Beginnings are filled with opportunities to make different choices, to reboot, to start anew. Lord, let the grace of wonder flow abundantly in my psyche and my soul, especially in times when I feel most vulnerable. Isn't that just what you're into right now?
It's beautiful. I learned everything. I learned everything today. Not that I want to follow that prayer, but I feel like it's important to say to the listener that objectively one might look at my life right now compared to a year ago and go, man, not as good, right?
I feel the happiest I have felt in years. The most, and actually happy maybe is a loaded word, total contentment and gratitude, that feeling where you walk outside and just even the wind in the trees and the birds song is just like, could bring you to tears kind of gratitude. So, that's enough. No.
You're not a little duck underwater anymore. That's beautiful, Lindsay. See, I knew it would have nothing to do with what we were supposed to talk about. That's beautiful.
I changed my life. So, everyone else. And you don't know, we're good Lindsay. Lindsay, Lindsay is a great meditation coach to work with.