It's the Jeep 85-year celebration event. 85 years of daring to ask, what if? Like, what if we didn't sacrifice capabilities for comfort? Or what if nothing?
On the road ahead, it can hold us back. For decades, we've chased every, what if, why not, who, where, and how? And the answer, because we can. Right now, gets to represent financing for up to 84 months on select models.
Plus, eligible customers get $1,850 in Jeep Anniversary Bonus Cash on all Jeep models. See your Jeep dealer for details. The podcast you're about to hear is a unique live investigation of a TV show. It contains some jokes, which some listeners may find disturbing.
They also have no way of predicting what Paul might do in the next 60 minutes. Hello, and yes, it's that time of year again. Paul buys a pint. No, I mean, it's our supernatural spectacular for Halloween, with Digging Up BBC's Ghostwatch from 1992.
My name's Colin, and I've taken Valium. That one does not surprise me one bit, Colin, to be honest. And my name's Paul, and through God, I've been given the test to help spirits that have lost their way. That goes another one?
Yeah, drown that spirit. He's very well drowned, don't you worry. TVDB says for Halloween, 1992, the BBC decides the broadcast an investigation into the supernatural, hosted by TV chat show legend Michael Perkerton. Perky, assisted by Mike Smith, Zura Green and Craig Charles, and a camera crew attempt to discover the truth behind the most haunted house in Britain.
This groundbreaking live television experiment does not go as planned, however. Which pretty much covers the list of on-screen credits, too. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, there's lots of background people, isn't there?
Yeah. Yeah, and the show was directed by Leslie Manning and written by Stephen Volk. So we should explain that, setup is done like it's a real live TV show, and that people can phone in, report any strange occurrences or odd happenings as they're watching. That's right, and the people presenting it for people that aren't from the UK, these are very well-known British TV personalities, Michael Perkerton, Zura Green.
Specifically presenters, not actors. Exactly, yeah. Although Craig Charles is kind of an actor, isn't he? I think he's been described as that, yes.
I think I say probably he describes himself. I would like. The number they give for a phone in is 08181181, which was also the number for Going Live. Was it really?
Yeah, the number I can't forget is 01818055, which was the one for Swap Shop and Saturday Superstore. Yeah, I know that one as well. So I remember that number. Well, they used to have it, particularly on Swap Shop, or just around the bottom of his table, didn't they?
Of his desk? Yes, yeah, yeah. And they used to rhyme it all the time, didn't they? You felt like I'd have rhymed it?
You ever try and call any of those? No, never, did you? I think I tried to call Swap Shop. Why were you swapping?
Ah, I probably some action man stuff or something. Because the idea was that you'd phone in and you would offer something, and then you would take something else from somebody, and I assume the BBC then shipped it to you. Yeah, the BBC acted as a kind of broker, didn't they? It took a commission.
You bet. Early eBay. Well, we make commissions, it's not money. Here's your action, there's an amissive.
Yeah, a commission. You got a little man in the room at the BBC building his own action man for part, so he's a daker. What random parts? Not from out part.
But he played for one with the beard. Do you got the other one with the beard? I do, yeah. Yeah.
He was a real man. Because he had a beard? Because he had a beard. And they had what flocked to her?
He did, yeah, and he had a bear right in there. There was one with a bear right there. That's an action man. Mm-hmm.
So we should point out that, even though Girl Swatch was aired under the Screen 1 drama banner, because of its documentary style, many viewers somehow believe the events were real, which cars controversy after the show's airing? This was the first TV show to be entered into the British medical journal that's having caused post-traumatic stress disorder in children. Really? What were children watching it for?
I mean, where's the parental control? Oh, look at you, you're funny, Doddy. LAUGHTER Did you watch this at the time when it came back? I'm not entirely sure if I did or not.
I can't remember. I did. I watched it with my mum, because we're both big horror people, you know? And I remember, even though I knew it wasn't real, desperately trying to convince my mum that it was, and she wasn't having any of it.
Oh, so she didn't believe it was real? She didn't believe it was real. It's not real. I've seen that woman play in the doctor on EastEnders.
And I'm like, no, you haven't. No, you haven't. It's real. Look, if I'm happy freaking out, look, she's like, sharp.
You know what you talk to me like now, you know? Apparently the BBC had a lot of calls from frightened viewers and the newspapers went after the BBC, saying they'd lost the trust in anti-peeb and all this stuff, but of course newspapers do whatever they can to kick the boots into the BBC. Still do today. They do, and I'm not being funny if this made people lose trust in the BBC.
They're like, oh, shit, we're coming down the pile. This is the day's where this was the biggest problem. It's about that for the second TV show. Accidentally, people think it was real.
And that was your big... Oh, those heady days. Yeah. Do you remember the screen one, drama logo and all that?
I don't remember. Well, we had rock that splits open. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It kind of rung about when I was watching it. Yeah. It was an anthology drama series, like there were 16, 19-minute episodes in which pretty much every British actor appeared in. And at least why episode?
Marina Sertis was in 1990. Oh, really? It was during CNG, isn't it? Yes.
Yeah. All right, OK. I think that one out. Yeah, look at that.
I should point out that both of us have the recently released an excellent Blu-ray edition. Have you looked at the script that comes with it? I had a brief blanch through. It is beautiful, though, isn't it?
It's gorgeous, sir. Yeah. I mean, there's material in the script that's not in the finished show. And the script is a copy of Leslie Manning's script, so it has her annotations, alterations and visual sketches in it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a lovely piece. Yeah.
It kind of bothers the mind that they went to all this trouble for this. Yes. Yeah. I mean, even if you don't like the programme, I would advise anybody interested in TV and film production to grab a copy because it's educational and interesting.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. BBC's never shown this since its first airing. Yeah.
There's all different rumours. There's rumours that they band it themselves, but that's never been proven. I think they just thought, let's keep the mystery alive. Let's just never show it again.
Really? That sounds a bit. Stigler to it. Oh, no.
That sounds a bit. What do you think they've never shown it again? I don't really know. I wonder if some of the people went happy, but I know Mike Smith, he, I mean, it makes me pass away now and passed away in 2014, but he refused to let the BBC show hit stuff in the pops.
Because apparently, you know how they're re-showing all the top of pops every so it's on BBC for, is it? Yeah. It's on I'd go as well. The presenters have to sign off on it, and if the presenter doesn't sign off, it can't be shown.
And he didn't sign off on his. And then, after he passed away, the BBC are honouring that decision and they're not showing them. Oh, that's why you never see him. I never thought about the fact that he doesn't turn up.
I mean, there's lots of other radio on DJ's that don't turn up on it on the reruns, but you never noticed that Mike Smith didn't appear. But then again, Mike Smith was always kind of a, I can't put this nicely. Now, be careful not to be a good other dad. I'm trying not to.
He was kind of just there, wasn't he? You don't think he's good at his job? I'm not saying he's not good at it. I don't understand why.
I don't think he would be a reason for not showing this because he's good in this. No, I'm not saying that's what the reason is. I'm saying that's probably why I didn't notice that they haven't shown him in any of them. Because he's kind of a bit dull.
OK, all right. We'll put some of the others that were flamboyant. There's not really much you can do in top of the pops. Did you know that most of the time that stuffy-topper pops wasn't written?
They were just told you've got 30 seconds, fill it. I can imagine that. Yeah. I'm sure that popped up in one of those documentaries that we've watched.
We both watched it. I've opened up the whole... No, but a couple of pops. I mean, we're going off the topic a bit, but I remember I was watching an old top of the pops.
And there was one where Will Smith was on it. And they were like, Will Smith soon to be seen in the new Batman movie. I was like, well, what alternative reality was that? A gladly not one that I live in, but you will know.
But who was that Will Smith? People going, you know, you need to say that Will Smith is going to be in the next Batman movie. So they could do a deal or something. Probably.
That's how it worked, isn't it? Half the time. Yeah. Yeah.
I know that there's lots of things that didn't appear in this. Stephen Volk, the writer, he wanted to have a high-pitched tone to the show that would take viewers pets. Just the pets. That is genius.
But they couldn't make it work technically, apparently, with the systems that they had at the time. I've got to feel that's also not allowed. Because you know, like subliminal message is illegal. That's right.
Yeah. There is a lot in the episode, isn't it, in the movie, where they talk about they've had reports that people's pets have been freaking out during the broadcast. Right. That would be genius.
I like that. Actress Gillian Barron, who played, I think she plays the boxer in it. Dr. Pasco.
Might be. She got a voicemail from a best friend, Judy Dench, on the night of the transmission. Chest eyes in the for ruining the illusion of the show because she recognized her. Yeah.
I mean, I mean, we'll go. I assume at some point we're going to have to talk about the difference between the actors and the presenters. And there is a difference. And weirdly, it's not the kind of difference you think would you get, is there?
Well, I could well, when we get to it, at some point, maybe our opinions will differ. Oh, OK. I'll probably surprise him, wouldn't it? Would it?
Well, I don't know. We've actually agreed on a lot of things like that on the podcast. And now, I know, it's making you feel better yourself and me worrying. I could see you getting more sick as looking at you.
Yeah. Did you read what happened if you actually rang that headline? Wasn't it just engaged a lot? No, apparently a voice just came on and told you that this is not real.
Oh, that gives the game away a bit. It does a bit, doesn't it? I would have preferred if it got in it. Put some, just said, oh, we've had a lot of calls at the moment.
We'll be placing you on hold. Yeah. And then just played some really eerie music. But then I suppose they'd be even worse problems later, wouldn't they?
And there were some serious problems after this. Yes, apparently. You can see that the influence of this in lots of things, particularly in which I suppose, which came down the line a little bit later in that decade. Yeah, and, uh, wreck.
Yeah, all those kind of phone footage, reality-based horrors that I'm so tired of now. Oh, yeah. Really sick of them now. I watched one the other night.
It was about, it was, it was OK, but again, they always suffer, those kind of ones always suffer from, like, you just think to yourself, put the camera down and get out of the house. Yeah, that's true. I can't remember what it was called, but it was like a, it was all done on the internet during COVID. And it was, it was OK.
There was a sequel of sorts planned in the early 2010s that dealt with the aftermath of the story, but it was ditched because of the panic that they originally created. They didn't want to go through all that again. I don't think it would have worked as well as second time. No, it's a one-time thing, isn't it?
Yes, it is. Well done. Yeah. Yeah.
No, this is where I'm only going to roll your eyes at me. But Stephen Vault was heavily inspired, and you can see it by the real life Enfield Poltergeist case from the late 1970s, which is still one of the most unsolved haunting cases in the UK. Oh, I could solve it. Went real.
Yeah, you're not believe right, Colin. There's nothing to believe in. I was very bleak. Yeah, I was stuff I got.
I was just about life, Jen. I know you were. But it's all gone, Paul. It's all gone.
There's just nothing to believe in. Cheers. Literally. No, no, no, if you know about the Enfield of Haunte, which there have been many TV shows and movies, particularly The Conjuring Two, Nick the whole thing, and trying to make out that that was a big part of it.
If you know about that case, it is a lot of the stuff with the family is pretty much ripped right from that. Right. And all the old, you know, the people floating from the beds and things flying around the room and all of that with the kids and I straight from them. It was nominated for a bAFTA.
This? Far, do you know the category? I don't know the category because it was subsequently withdrawn because of all the criticism that the show got. So they nominated it and then they took it away from them.
So yeah, I don't get that because even if this controversy about something, in some ways, that means it was good. It did its job. Yeah, exactly. Although the makers, they were always categorically stating that they never meant it to fool people, but I don't believe that.
No, I don't believe that at all. No. Because if you tuned in and missed the logo at the beginning and that one credit that says written by, you're not going to know which they didn't want, which wasn't on until that it didn't have a written by credit until 24 hours before it was aired on an executive. So we need to put a written by credit on so that people know that it's got an actual story that's written by someone.
So someone panicked. Yes, someone panicked. OK, so it didn't even have that. So they knew what they would do it.
Apparently Michael Pakis' mum was convinced that it was all real, and she was actually frying for him. Oh, he did his job. Yeah. And he does do his job very well in this, I don't want to get too heavily into Satanism.
Oh, I'm all up for that. The controversy that came afterwards. But there wasn't teenagers apparently committed suicide five days after watching the show. I mean, he linked it to the saying that he wanted to be with the ghost or something along those lines.
All right. It happened. It's a fact. It did happen.
That's like, yeah, that's like a bacon body then two months. I mean, I heard it's a back and going on. It was a bit like that, yes. Yeah.
Of course, this follows a long history of shows on TV and on the radio that have fooled the public. I suppose the most famous one is the 1938 War of the Worlds with awesome bells. Everyone talks about that. And then that was that that was big.
And then there's that other show that filled people, Mrs. Brown's boys, because people think it's a comedy. There's a lot of gullible people out there, Colin. It really is.
It's a race. Yeah. One of the presenters originally considered for the show was Blue Peter presenter, Yvette Fielden, instead of Sarah Green. But apparently she was warned off the show in case of her career.
And then 10 years later, ironically, she went on to host the quote unquote real paranormal series, most haunted. Yeah. It's not real, Colin, is it? Right.
No. You think this would have hurt her career? I don't think it would have hurt her. You know, Sarah Green's career?
No, I don't know. Didn't hurt Sarah Green's. No. Oh, with the show.
So we kind of begin. There's two parts of it. There's a studio base. And then there's the house that it set out, right?
And the house consists of a woman, mother, and two kids. Yeah. Husband, I guess he left because of what's going on. He doesn't really go into it.
He's just referred to as the ex-husband. And he's not around anymore. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. So although we do have to talk about some of his personal habits, hobbies that he has in a bit. There is so crazy. He's quite a lot in this movie.
We have to talk about that. And we will. So we get Craig's Charles. Now, I'd forgotten that Craig's Charles was in this.
So would I until he popped up? He's good, though, isn't he? Well, he's just playing the skeptical asshole character, isn't he? Or as we like to call it, me?
That's true. That's true. Yeah. But I thought he was good, isn't he?
As you said, as we mentioned earlier, and we'll talk about it, the TV presenters apart from one. Let's do it now. Let's talk about it now. The TV presenters are better than the actors, making it look natural.
The only one I would say struggles a little bit is Mike Smith. I don't think he's as comfortable doing it as the others are. I didn't have a problem with him. And you've got to remember he's the only one that is supposed to have an emotional attachment, because you've got to remember that in real life, Sarah Green is his wife.
Yeah. Yeah. So he had to deal with that side of it, which is not normally what he does as a presenter. But I did think that particularly Sarah Green and Michael Parkinson were excellent in this.
Yeah. Now, Sarah Green has acting background. Oh, tell me. No, she trains as an actor.
Oh, did she? All right, OK. Yeah. But yeah, the actor playing the doctor is clearly acting.
All the characters quote-unquote characters in this that are played by actors are clearly acting. Is it because we're so used to films and TV production that we can recognise acting? Or is it just something odd about it? I don't know.
It felt a bit amdram. People's reactions were just either a little bit over exaggerated or they were trying to do the natural way of speaking when they were having conversations. And they were throwing little idiosyncrasies into the way that they talk, which were clearly placing them there. It didn't feel natural.
Yeah, but on the other hand, all the presenters felt completely natural. Do you think that's because they were just doing what they would be doing anyway? I don't know, because it was pointed out that Sarah Green, she keeps touching her ear for her earpiece. In real presenting, they're told never to do that because they're told not to draw attention to the fact that somebody's talking in the ear.
So she had to make a conscious decision to do that so that the audience would know that she's listening to somebody. So she's acting. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.
I'm talking about that. And Michael Parkinson has got prior of playing himself before anyway, and he played himself in a Vincent Price horror movie in the 70s. Oh, really? Interviews.
I think it's the one with a Vincent Price is playing an actor who's killing people, and he gets interviewed on the chat show by Michael Bask. And he's also appeared in a very good theatre production by the esteemed theatre writer, Ernie Wise. You know, one of those, you know, Mark and I, she always pretend to do a... I think that's probably on YouTube, isn't it?
Yeah, I would think so. But yeah, the presenters for the most part are frankly believable, and they certainly segment is very well put together. Coming to someone who's seen a lot of this quote unquote real haunting footage in the past. It looks the same almost like the other stuff, fake as well.
Oh, who just fuck it? What are you doing? I did like the fairly cheap BBC music that they use over the top of the show as well. Oh, you did?
Well, he just felt... Maybe he felt like something that would have been on TV at that time anyway. Like, they just used catalog music. Yeah, that kind of thing.
We say often do for documentaries and for, you know, chat shows and things like that. Casio Keyboard, Game Show, Time, Inchon Music, but with a bit of a spooky edge to it. Oh, so you put the wobble button on it? Yeah.
Phone off. So they set up the scene. There's an outside broadcast, and Sir O'Green is going to spend the night in the house, and they're just going to wait and see if something happens, basically. That's right.
Craig Charles is outside, and he's going to talk to people in the street. Yeah, this is a lot of people in that street as well. Oh, you would have a giant BBC outside broadcast. That's about the street.
It looks bloody cold. I mean, yeah, it does. I remember when Baptist Gossace was filming in the neighborhood, it was like, hard to people. No, let's just say you're talking about when you move to New York, not like when we lived in Wigan, right?
No, Martis Gossace, he filmed in Wigan. Did he? Goodfellas. That's at Wigan, Pia.
I must have missed the scene, say, Kig Green. I never saw that one. And when a working man's club. That's right.
It's amazing what they did with the dressing, because it looks like a massive, nice restaurant. But really, it's just an early art working man's club. Everybody's dubbed, because everybody's doing it the wrong way. I like it.
Eivaiak. Yeah. And they had to redo it all. Costa Fartu, I don't know why they just didn't film it with the spokes to it.
Very much sense, wouldn't they? It would. But that's film for you. It's all a lie.
That's true. The skulls. And in that picture of a ghost, which is just a sheet, with a ice coat in it. That's what they are.
Yeah, I suppose. He did remind me of my house between the first and the 31st of October. This is what you'll see if you stay at my house. Just lots of white sheets on your house.
Lots of white sheets on my head, yes. Burning crosses. Hey, what? No.
Giggaiem. What was with the weird off-camera line that, when they cut to Cray Charles, does he say to dinner? I'm taking the volume. He does, and I locked it up.
It's in the script. Is it really? That's a shame. That's a shame.
The way he delivered it, I thought, what's up with him? Why is he? That's a weird thing to add, but then I looked at it. It was like, oh, it's in the script.
Because he does it a few times, doesn't he? Well, they'll cut to him, and he'll be like messing about. Or I suppose that's all scripted. That's just his character, the character that he's playing of himself, that version of himself that he's playing.
Yeah. He's the one that's not taking it seriously. The money was clearly spent on that opaque wall covered the phone room in the studio as well, that they could, when they shone the light on it, suddenly turned and you could see through it and see all the people. That was a nice little touch there.
It was, yeah. Good special effect. It was. After you're on her.
Look, look, look, look. I'm no chubberry, all right? That's what I'm saying. You've never thrown a hat in your life.
That's right. Or anything else. LAUGHTER And then was she on a thermal camera? Yes, my coming handy layer.
Which I thought was just a stupid visual effect thing, but it's actually a thermal camera. It's real. It was a real one that they used. It wasn't like just a...
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was a thermal camera. I completely forgot about the thermal camera until right at the very end, because they don't use it. Until that last few shots till the end of the movie.
Yeah. You always forget your thermal until it's too late. That's true. Tell me about it.
There was a long word that we're talking about. I think the mum is talking to Sarah Green about the problems that she's been having with the ghost in the house. She says, stains get on the clothes from nowhere. I've got the same problem, Colin.
I don't know where my stays come from either. Do you? No, not a clue. It should be.
You could have a guess if we drill down and think about it. Oh, yeah. But where do I have a... Why would I do that?
Yeah, they'll do that. No, no. I did like the way that Parkey just shut down the doctor in Pascal, doesn't he? He's talking about it.
He just tells me to shut up. He says, shut up. Yeah. It's the 80s.
Well, it won't. It was the 90s. Forget about that. It fell out of the 80s.
Yeah. Actually, you know, that's another point. It did feel like the 80s. I was surprised to realize when it was made.
I thought it was made much earlier. In my mind, I thought this was the 80s. I always thought this came out in the 80s. Yeah, but it wasn't.
Weird. So where were we still at the school when this came out? Well, let's do some... So 85...
85, we were 10. 85, 86, 87, 89, 89, 99. No, we were 17, so we were at college. Really?
In my head, I was at school. Yeah. I totally think I was at school. No, we must have been at college.
It's like you said before, times of weird things, isn't it? When you try and put it all together. Yeah, we discussed like, you know, we try and compare like what we got for Christmas and how long we had it for. We think it's years and years and years and then you're like, wait, no, it's all strange.
Would you say it's spooky? No. I did think so. There's kind of a weird, slightly passive, aggressive domestic situation going on as well, isn't there between Mike, Smith and Sarah Green in this?
When she complains about being stuck out in the cold, then he's just kind of laughing at her. She's like, I've been really for the cameras, but really, she's like, you know, all right, you're an asshole. She's gonna have words later. Yeah.
Yeah. You like to be told by Sarah Green? I don't know what you mean. All right.
We are like Sarah Green. We do. Let's admit it. She turned up on an episode of that game show that's on BBC Two, that that guy presents to the other really tall guy.
I don't know. I was in a game. Go to the game. Go to the game.
Because he's not really in a game. No, it's not him. Definitely not him. How's he got games?
She was on one of those for you a few weeks ago. Did you enjoy it? I did indeed. She's too good at it.
She won actually. Maybe. Oh, what? And then we meet...
We don't see this guy very often, but I thought he was one of the best characters in it. We meet Alan. Is it Domescu? Yeah.
Who is the head of the Cyclical Research? So, what are you actually calling it? What do you know about Cyclical Research? Oh, quite a lot.
I mean, they have two wheels and a frame and you're pedaling. No matter what anybody says, a rally boxer is better than a grifter. That's what you meant, right? No, no, no, no.
It's Cyclical Research. Not Cyclical Research. Oh, it's a bicycle research. No, no, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no. Paranormal Spooky. That kind of research. I don't know if any about that doesn't exist.
I'm sensing there's a wall here. Colin. What are you, man? I did do that with my hand.
I did do that with my hand. It doesn't work on a podcast, but yeah. No, not really. You can tell this guy knows his stuff, though, because he's got a ponytail and he's got a wax jacket on.
So, he's serious. Oh, I like a wax jacket. I like your jacket. So, why?
I'm about to watch your jacket. I'm about to watch your jacket. You used to work at school. I can safely say at no point about life did I think I was Rick Day.
I was from Playground. I absolutely guarantee that was not a fart that ever crossed my mind. I'm not sure about that. Amos, from Edward Elphab, maybe.
Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can see the resemblance, though. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Propping up the wall pack. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd love to go in there.
You never leave. As they sat in bottom of that episode. They didn't have a pay for any drinks. That's true.
Perfect. It's a dream pub. It is. But you've got to say, you know, you're going to talk for a man in a wax jacket.
He knows his stuff. You'd feel comfortable and confident that this guy knows what he's talking about, wouldn't you? You'd like to be cradled in his arms. Well, I wouldn't go that far.
Oh, OK. That's what I'm inferring for what you're saying. No, no, no, I wouldn't go that far. So when Sarah Green's talking, I don't know if you noticed this, but when she's talking to the Chris Miller guy, I think he's the camera guy.
She spins it round on him, doesn't she? It was a very shifty dude looking. It was leaning against the van, just stirring into the camera. There was wheels ago at some point.
That's what he was waiting for. Well, this is a lot of things about this. How many times did he mention crime in that neighborhood? Where the hell are they living?
They talk about people being knifed later. I think in London, they meant to be in London, or is it somewhere up north? I don't know. It's a suburb.
The accents are all over the place. Yeah. But they just keep talking about people being knifed and how crime is terrible. It's like, where are we?
Maybe that's why they have that shot of that, of a shifty looking guy leaning up against the van. You notice it. So you take it anything. Oh, he looks dodgy.
Dodgy, yeah. So they cut back to Michael Parfusson's reaction a lot when he's talking to the doctor. Do you think they kept cutting more to him because she was kind of unconvincing and a little bit wooden? I've seen the documentary about this and there's a couple of people in the documentary seeing her praise about how good she is.
Yeah, I saw that documentary as well. Not buying it. No. No.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with her performance, but she is acting. There's a worse one later. Oh, all right. There's a worse one.
So Sarah Green goes into the house and the cameraman is the sound man. And we also, a woman calls in and says she saw a figure in the footage. Yeah. So they get a little, well, Michael Parfusson mansplains how to use a, what was he called it, a light pen on a screen so that they can draw a line around this figure.
Yeah, I had a light pen on that. I come with a 64. Was it good? No.
Was it as good as this in this, in this? Yeah. Yeah. Why would you want to draw on the screen on your TV?
That's right. Yeah. Pointless, isn't it? Pointless.
Yeah. Well, no, we've got a point. Well, yeah, we've got a very good point. But this figure that they can see is kind of the first time that we see the ghost and he's called pipes, isn't he?
Was what you were doing? Because they hear banging on the pipes all the time. So that's why he got that nickname. Yeah.
And we get a little bit more domestic stuff between Sarah Green and Mike Smith. It keeps happening. It's nice. I like it.
It's not. Yeah. Okay. There were a lot of posters of Jason Donovan on that girl's bedroom wall as well.
Are you jealous? No, he made me think of the time when I actually saw Jason Donovan singing in a pub in Wigan. It was long after. I mean, was it was, was it, was it a performance?
No, it was a performance. It was at the rock cafe in Wigan. I think it was what it was called at the time. And he was singing to a backing track and he had a pint in his hand, had a white t-shirt on with a curry stand down the front of his t-shirt.
And he was absolutely hammered. And at one point he was getting hit by some guy in the front row with his pint over him. I mean, it sounds like the best performance ever. It was fun.
Yes. And he's turned his life around in the last few years. So, first place to the guy. Yeah.
But that's where these pictures took me to that memory. Not your own bedroom. No, no, no, no. What posted did you have on your bedroom wall?
Oh, we're going to go there. I'm just curious. I had a big poster of R2D2 and C3P have on my bedroom wall. I mean, I thought you were talking like the early 90s.
Then I think I had a big picture of Jillian Anderson on my wall. Oh, yes, because you're a big X-Files fan. Yes. A big crush on Jillian Anderson.
I bet you probably still do. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot that.
Yeah, various other things. I can just imagine it because she probably only ever did photos with David to come in the picture. I can just imagine a rip down the puzzle of Rick David to come in. This was a beautifully framed, well, well, well, well, you framed it?
I framed it, yeah. You were framing your, so you bought this poster and ripped it from a copy of Lookit. I think the poster was actually bought for me by my girlfriend at the time. It's the Jeep 85 year celebration of it.
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See your Jeep dealer for details. Your girlfriend bought your, she knows what you're going to be doing to this poster, right? I think it was actually my wife. What was my wife now?
Your wife bought your poster of Jenny Anderson and said, have fun. Well, I've always recovered with pictures of Brost and George Clooney, so, you know, it's like fur, isn't it? Yeah, I guess so. The other thing I remember having on my wall is also, weirdly, a picture of a reproduction poster of the movie Jake Speed.
That's not a choice. That was a very odd choice, yes. Okay. Don't ask me to explain it because I don't think I can.
But that was up there for a while. Can't believe we'd probably do it at some point on the podcast, really. Oh, I think so, definitely. Yeah.
So go on, what did you run your walls then? Oh, they were just white and then messages scroll to my blood. Well, like, what, help me? No, help you.
You were drawing pentagrams, obviously, because you don't believe in anything to do with the supernatural or paranormal. No, no. You weren't calling on Satan or his little minions, were you? No.
His little minions. His little minions. I don't mean the yellow. Yellow things.