#125. Shannon Kaiser: Living Authentically

True authenticity has to start on the inside of us. And so now I go inward and make choices on the inside and that to me is what authenticity is, whether it's about your business, whether it's about a relationship, any choice we have in life. And so we all, I truly believe, want to know who we are and we want to live a life that feels good. And it starts on the inside and then manifests outside.

That was Shannon Kaiser. If you can't tell already, she's one of my personal favorites. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to go back through the show list and listen to the other conversations we've had together. But today we're talking about authenticity.

I share Shannon's love of that concept. And her latest book called Joysika, which is out on October the 29th, she's talking about how we can live an authentic life. In this episode, we touch on concepts such as letting go and surrender, fear and how our dreams can make us scared, how our expectations can harm us, what life looks like when you focus more on making meaning than chasing goals, self-actualization, courage, and more. In summary, we're talking about what it takes to truly live and create an authentic life.

Now you can find Shannon's new book, Joysika, on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever you find awesome books. Her books tend to be in those big bookstores. And if you want to learn more about Shannon, you can head to her website over at playwiththeworld.com. But without further ado, let's jump into the conversation.

I don't believe we're here to merely survive. I truly believe we're here to thrive. So let's get going. Shannon, I love having you on the podcast.

You're my favorite guest. This is your third time, I think. I love you and I love being here. I'm so excited to connect with you today.

Thank you for having me back. It's because you just continue to keep up-leaving. Like every book you write, I'm like, that conversation is so topical and it's such an important conversation to have. We need to discuss it on the podcast.

Thank you. Thank you. I feel that way because I'm on this this path, this personal growth path, and I have to put it in books and share it. I'm so glad you're right here with me and we're growing together.

It's beautiful. I'm so right here with you. So the latest book, which one is it released? October 29th.

That's when everyone can get their hot little hands about it. I'm lucky because I already have a copy of people. So some of this what we're talking about today is kind of inside of knowledge. But I'm sharing it with you.

That's the whole point. Your new book's called Joy Seeker. And it's about living an authentic life, this one, right? 100%.

Yeah, on every level. So your journey with Joy Seeker, it started with you losing your precious love tucker, which I've known you for a number of years. So I can remember that point and it was heartbreaking. It just was heartbreaking.

And then you asked yourself a simple question after you lost tucker, right? And that was what have you always wanted to do, but not given yourself permission to do? Can you tell us a little bit about that period of your life and how you got to that question? Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, before Tucker came into my life, I was diagnosed with clinical depression. And if you've been following along, of course, I had anxiety and was suffering from eating disorders and drug addiction. And I adopted Tucker because I read an article about how dogs can help with depression. And so this was about this was over 10 years ago when he came into my life.

And it was amazing. I found self-love. I discovered my purpose. I left advertising, became a writer and coach.

Like he was my right hand guru man next to my side. I truly attributed a lot of my success. So when he died, I had no idea that it would be so gut-wrenching, but I found myself in another depression. Of course, the death of an animal, the death of a loved one, grief is grief.

But we also are grieving in our life, you know, anytime we go through a change, grieving a loss of a job or a relationship or even just moving to a new city, change represents a letting go. And this was a massive change for me. And in that time, I actually found myself questioning everything, even my purpose. And I did that because I was putting happiness and joy outside of myself.

And so through that grieving process of him passing, I realized I have to be able to find joy, love, and true happiness and success within myself, not outside. And that's really what started as a joy-seeker journey. And I asked myself, what do you always want to do? But haven't done, haven't given yourself permission to do.

That's the key word permission. I think, you know, homework assignment for anyone listening. If you want to journal or write that question down, it can really lead us to our truth because we hide from ourselves in our dreams. And for me, my inner voice said, travel the world full time.

You've had this dream for over two decades. Like, you can do that as a life coach, as an author, you can work from anywhere. And I'm a speaker. I was already speaking in other countries.

So why not just position myself in those countries at that time versus flying from America? So I set out to travel the world for a whole year. Oh, well, I'm hearing is losing tucker was kind of like an unexpected unraveling. Is that fair to say?

Like, you didn't see this kind of new level of understanding or this new pit of despair. Let's say, hitting you like it did. I think that's totally fair. You know, he was aging and he was old and for many, many years, I saw it coming and I kept practicing and anticipating that, you know, it's like having an older parent, you know, they're going to go or seeing a pet getting older.

But it never really hit you until it happens. And that grief was more than I ever thought possible. But it was the greatest thing because it became my greatest teacher. You recognize that you had been holding yourself back from a dream that you could actually bring to life.

You had the ability to travel the world for a year. What was that realization like when you decided to do it? Was it scary as hell? Was that one of the things that had been holding you back?

Is even though it was a dream, it was just your shit scared? You know, it's interesting. I love that you're saying that because there was fear in it. But the fear kind of came as I got closer to making that dream come true.

I remember right before, like 48 hours before I was leaving for my one way to get trip around the world. The fear took over and it was debilitating. Like I couldn't even breathe. I woke up in a panic attack.

My inner voice was like, Shannon, who do you think you are? Why are you traveling the world? Who would you try to prove yourself stupid? It's not going to work like all those fears.

And it was so loud that I could barely get through the day. I had constant knots. And then it turned into a chapter in the book, of course, because I call it the good fear. Like we're always running from our fear.

But if we that was pivotal moment for me because I recognize that that fear was coming up because ultimately what fear wants is us to be safe and protected. And it's just there like a little child that needs attention. It needs to be heard. So I heard that voice and I said, listen, I can coexist with my fear instead of trying to overeat over spend over workout over it.

I can be with it. And then it goes away. And then your true self comes forward, you know, the light and love within that is leading you forward into your dream. So yes, it was scary.

But I will say also on that side point, for me, last year when I traveled, it was by far the most abundant successful financially and spiritually and emotionally situation in your life. Like I had more like coaching clients than I've ever had. And I really, truly believe that it all happened because I let go and said I'm going for it. People else, did you have a lot of money and savings?

I mean, I had some, but I actually didn't tap into it. I built up my savings while traveling because I think what happens is when we take that step, the universe always comes in and rewards us the universe rewards motion. And so often we're stuck in our fear sitting on our couch like I can't do it. We soon should take motion.

And I say this in as you know, in the language and practice that I have when we follow our heart, we are always provided for. Yeah. So you're talking about letting go and motion those two points, I just feel like we need to touch on a little bit more, letting go of holding the reins too tightly. What do you mean by that concept of really needing to let go?

I feel like so many times when we are in our lives, we want something or we're working towards something and we're trying so hard to control it and control the outcome, control how it's going to play out. This turns up in habits, whether it's our communication style or you know, spending habits, but trying to control is actually, you know, J.C. is luck of what's holding you back. So you can live the life you're made for.

And one of the things that does hold us back is our need to control things or our expectations of the outcome. And really what I learned and what I teach now is that the process of being present is truly our greatest gift. And when we can be more present, it's about this unwavering faith within yourself and the universe. And once you have that, the surprise, the universe can surprise you, and it's way more better.

It's way better. You can't even plan it. So you're like, what was I doing controlling for so long? You know, I'm laughing because I do know.

So you sit off out on this worldwide adventure. Was it fun? I want to know more about like the actual adventure of traveling the world for you because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there going, oh, that would be really nice. Can you just give us a little insight of what it was like to travel full time?

Oh, yeah. So it was first and foremost, you know, play with the world is kind of all my philosophy. But it's not about play. It's about the inner journey that we go on.

So the biggest thing that I recognized, of course, it was super fun. But if anybody picks up the joy seekers, there's parts of it where I share about the journey, although it's not a travel book, I just use those as kind of tools to share the lesson. And the biggest thing that I recognized is I started my trip and I was like, my goal is to see the world and tackle my bucket list. I am going to live so full out and just as wide as I can.

I pulled tower, tower, check, you know, like, check, I visited like 18 countries and 28 cities. I got exhausted. I will tell you, so all of a sudden my fun and joy turned into this frustration and anger and it was all part of the process. But what I really realized is I thought the biggest thing was traveling the world.

That's the goal. For two decades, I had this goal. We all have goals and we think when we get them, that's what's going to be our joy. And I was still living on that kind of pretense.

We have we want these peak moments, right, the raise, the more clients, the book deal. But what I learned and that's really what the joy seeker book is about is you get into it. It's really about the meaning and living with more of a deeper connection to yourself. So I paused mid journey traveling the world.

I said, wait a second, this feels superficial. I really want more purpose in my life. And that led me to go to China to rescue dogs from the meat trade. And I adopted one named Chance for Second Chance at Life.

And he's so great. Like, it's so great because I have a dog again, but I no longer like my joy is inside me. I bring it. I can be sitting on the couch cuddling with him and have just as much joy as running around the world and seeing all these great sites because the true joy is seeking.

It's not about chasing anything. We recognize the joy, happiness and success is within ourselves. Oh my gosh, I have so many places I feel like I could take this. So we're talking because you'd mentioned, you know, it wasn't and your joy wasn't found and taking off the bucket list items.

It wasn't found and seeing the Eiffel Tower. It wasn't found and all of these things that started to feel really superficial. But then you also mentioned, you know, any sort of goal like getting a book deal and I know you've written multiple books now and I'm sure these people listening out there are like, but I just when I get there in my business or just when I do that in my life, like then I'll be happy. What would you say to those people read the book?

Yeah, read the book. There we go. Ultimately, I feel all of us do feel that way. We live in a society in a culture that really conditions us to chase, right?

Work harder. Productivity becomes kind of a badge of honor. So I feel like one of the things in Joy-Seeker is I take people through a process of identifying the exact things that hold us back. And one of them is the belief that we number one have to be happy all the time.

And if we're not, we feel like something's wrong with us. And then number two is like the expectation that your dream, whether it's a go away book deal, traveling the world, whatever it is, is going to be that end all be all because if you think about it in your own life, I would say look at your life and look at the things that you have gotten in the past. Sure, they were wonderful, but it's fleeting. You're already on to the next thing.

You're already thinking about, okay, well, what's the next goal? And sometimes it doesn't even feel like what we thought. So you became a best seller or you found your soulmate and of all of these things make life amazing. But the true awesomeness has to happen kind of on the inside where we bring that joy with us.

And that changed everything. Like, I no longer the biggest gift, the Joy-Seeker journey, which was the journey but now it's the book, Joy-Seeker gave me, is to release all expectations and be soulfully in the journey and love it. Because that truly is all we have that is life. Like I said to someone the other day, if you don't love your days, then what are you working towards?

Like if you're not enjoying the journey, then where do you think it's going to take you? Because you can't, these are the days of our lives. Like we, that was bad because there was a tough book. But like your life is happening right now, it's not happening the day after you get the book deal or the day after you get that raise or the day after you get your qualification.

Like it's happening now. It's so true. And I do find that, you know, when I first my first book, Adventures for Your Soul, the first traditional published book, when I was pitching that, I had the mentality. When I get the book deal, oh my God, my life will be better.

And that prevented the book deal. It was actually when I worked alongside my coach and my coach was like, why don't you make a course now? Why don't you start teaching the principles in the book now? And I was like, a radical moment of truth.

That's why am I not doing that? And as soon as I started putting that energy into it, like I think it was a week, maybe two weeks that we got the book deal. And so this energy of like being present and happy with, you know, working towards your dream like right now is the power. That's where our power is.

So it's fun. Oh my gosh, exactly that. People, if you listen to one thing, and because this has been a lesson I feel like I've been learning over the last year or so, is that I have to have fun in working towards my dreams rather than just being fixated on the dream itself. Like this is where my life is happening and the working towards and bringing bringing the journey to life.

It's so true. Yes, yes. And you know, I say in a book and all the time when my social media and stuff, you know, there's a Chinese proverb that says the journey is the reward, but ultimately who we become in reaching that goal is so much more important than actually reaching that goal. The life lessons along the way.

Shannon just speaks my language if you can't tell people. You talk about self actualization in Joy Seeker, which is one of my favorite terms. What does it mean to you? So self actualization is actually, it's really about authentic living.

So for me, it's being who you are and seeing your potential for it. It's not necessarily reaching that potential because that would mean that we're at the destination. Once you have the destination, like you die. Like I heard a quote the other day that was talking, it was a friend of mine was talking about health and he said, I absolutely love the journey to getting better and I never want to be healed.

And at first that sounded crazy. But he said once you're healed, you die. Like there's no more growth needed. And so we're looking at everything as we need to be fixed.

We need to be saved. We need to heal ourselves for our life to be better, especially when we get diagnosed with something. But ultimately, to me, what it really represents is this constant being who you truly are at every moment in the journey. So self actualization is about authentic living being who you are.

You've personally asked me to kind of grapple with the deeper questions in my life and get to know myself better and who I really am and how I want to authentically show up in the world. Is wrestling with those big questions such as why am I here? What is my purpose? Is that part of uncovering the joy in our own lives?

Or is that kind of like an extension project? Oh, I think it's 100% connected. I think it's also ties to self realization and self actualization. You know, if you think about the, I guess it's the hierarchy of needs in psychology, right?

Here's the triangle. And the bottom is getting your needs met as far as safety, having security or basic needs. And then you move up and then you get to the top of the triangle, the very top, top right below the very top is self esteem and self love. And so we got to get to a place where we're loving ourselves instead of judging and criticizing ourselves.

It's so important. I got into a place where I wrote a book called Self Love Experience and I fell in love with myself. They were writing that. I was like, okay, I'm worthy of my own love.

I got it. And then I was like, well, what do you do with the self love? I want to do now. Yeah.

And I realized it's truly like that next level, which is the highest part of the triangle, self actualization, which is truly you get to a place where you want to make a difference. Like, I am so mission driven now in those questions. Who am I? What do I want?

What am I here for? And those same questions I remember talking to you about. It's exactly what we need to ask ourselves to truly not only be fulfilled, but make a difference in the lives of ourselves, for our loved ones and ultimately help the whole world. Do you know, Shannon, but there is actually like that theory of Abraham Maslow's was extended.

And the next level they say is actually self transcendence. That's my next book. Yeah. Look at you just living it all out.

Right. Like when you're talking about being purpose driven, that really is, you know, self transcendence when it's like, it's actually not about you so much anymore. It's about what you can give back to the world, I think, in so many ways. So glad you shared that because I didn't realize that they were actually, they changed or kind of extended it, but it makes so much sense.

It basically looks like a triangle and then it flips back out and it's like another triangle starts going on top of it because it goes back out from the pinnacle back out. It's pretty cool. Yeah. You said that when Tucker died, it really did bring you back to what is my purpose.

Did you have that moment of feeling a little bit lost in your purpose or disconnected? Because I feel like so many entrepreneurs on our journey and I know I certainly have, you start with purpose and intention and then it kind of gets fuzzy again. Did you feel like that you became disconnected from your own purpose or was it just time to review it after Tucker died? Yeah.

I think you nailed it. I think we have to let ourselves change and grow. And for me, I actually did question everything. I love writing so much and I love working with my clients, but I had such moments where I was considering abandoning it all because I was so at a place of, is this really working for me?

Is this what I'm really here for? Is this part of the bigger picture? And I had to ask myself that. I had to go through that in order to get to the next level of my purpose.

And it's not like an overnight thing. I mean, I've been on this journey for two years where I'm still doing the inter-work to really transcend and share on the outer level. Like the blogs are changing the messages. It's all about trusting and believing yourself.

Like no matter what, it's all about empowering you, empowering you to be who you're meant to be. But how that comes about, how deep we go, is truly the transformation that I was able to gift myself through going into that grief. Do you know what amazes me about being on this path? And I feel like Shannon is one of my soul sisters walking alongside me is every time you feel like you've grown and developed, they're still more deep.

They're still further to go. And like you said, as a true soul seeker or a person who's truly dedicated to self-development, I think part of it is that we don't ever want to reach the destination. But I feel like humans are like pools and we can just keep going in further and deeper and deeper. But sometimes that can be a bit of a brutal experience.

Like you said, with losing tucker, it's not like that was all pretty and sunshine and rainbows either for you. Yeah, and it's true. And I think we want, you know, even on the spiritual path of the self-help, you kind of get into this personal development world and our values, you and we value growth, everyone listening probably as well. And that comes about, I think we get to moments where we have to recognize their seasons, like seasons of our soul.

And I was in a season of sadness, but ultimately, it's like winter. When winter is upon us, you know, the old leaves are falling. We become barren, we become almost like a half version of ourselves. So we can reap the new harvest that will come.

I really started to resonate with nature more and use that as a metaphor for you can't force your way out. Like when I was grieving, and I still do, but chances really helped with that when you're talking about the point is you can't force yourself into the next season, you have to be where you are. But we can look at the growth that's happening as a great thing. Like it's kind of always, always going to be more as a beautiful thing.

Or we can look at it as like, oh, I'm never there. And it's just a choice. It's all about perspective. And I choose to look at it as a beautiful thing, constantly unfolding and learning more.

And it turns into more books and more exciting things for us. Right. There's always something new to write about. I love it.

Out of authenticity, I think it's really important to talk about that concept a little bit more and being sort of true and real to ourselves. What keeps us from authenticity and perhaps even what was keeping you from your authenticity? Can we talk more about that concept and define it a little bit better? Absolutely.

I think my new favorite word is authenticity. Because I tend to find that a lot of us are not living an authentic life and that's everyone's own prerogative in their own journey, but I want to live an authentic life. And so for many, many years, I was looking outside of myself and trying to do things that I thought a story I share in the book is like when I first started my coaching practice and doing life coaching and writing, I would look at other coaches and I would look at other writers and look at how they were doing it, how did they structure their course and I would literally do it the same way, even call my seminars similar things. And they would be wildly successful for the other people.

They turned into books. They were featured on Oprah with it, all kinds of things. And I had maybe one person sign up and then that's it, which is fine, great. You have to start somewhere.

But my point is I was looking outside of myself and I was seeing what worked for others thinking, oh, if it worked for them, it'll work for me. That I didn't know was inauthentic because true authenticity has to start on the inside of us. And so now I go inward and I make choices on the inside and that to me is what authenticity is, whether it's about your business, whether it's about a relationship, any choice we have in life. And so we all, I truly believe, want to know who we are and we want to live a life that feels good and it starts on the inside and then manifest outside.

Comparison, right? Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. So yeah, everything you just said there, everything she just said there, people are, yeah, you can just chalk up a second person over here to that as well.

I had probably a little over six months ago, I had this kind of comparison melt down where I realized that I had not noticed that I was sort of still, I was a bit arrogant and I was like, I'm not susceptible to comparison anymore. Then holy moly, I just had this kind of internal crashing where I realized how unconsciously I had been comparing myself. And when I say comparing myself, it was that I hadn't been tuning into my own voice. And the voice of the outside world people is so damn noisy.

So if you do not tune into your own voice or make that a routine or a ritual, then it's inevitable that comparison sneaks in and Shannon and I both work in the online coaching space. And I've just had to really completely shut off for it from it because I realized that when I started my business, I didn't know anything about this business, naivety was bliss because I knew nothing. And then I got into it and there's always someone who wants to scream at you about how to do things. And I realized it was actually evaporating my true power because it wasn't me that when I listened to other people, it wasn't me.

So comparison, I think is something that absolutely keeps us away from authenticity. But I think the problem is with it so often we don't even know we're doing it. Did you have that same kind of unconscious relationship with comparison? Yes, yes, exactly.

In the beginning, I mean, there's moments throughout the journey of growing my business and also my life where you are very conscious or comparing. You know, even just I have a whole chapter in section about overcoming comparison in Joy Seeker. I talked about it multiple books and just a couple months ago, I was triggered again and I have a good situation in hand. It only lasted maybe an hour and I bounced out hours before it would have been weeks where I was taking out like I'm not good enough.

I'm not worthy. What I really recognized is number one, everyone's on their own journey. And so when someone else is winning, I was triggered because another author was releasing a book and it was like instant New York Times by seller, which is like every author's dream, right? Yeah, totally.

And I remember thinking how amazing, like for this person, but it triggered me to think gosh, I've been working so long at writing and my reach and just kind of where your mind goes, I caught myself. And that's something we can do when we fall into comparison. Catch yourself. One, everyone's on their own journey.

Celebrate the successes you see in other people. I believe it was Glenden Doyle that said, when you compare yourself to others, it's like a shiny light showing you what you want. It's basically a spotlight on what is potential for you. And so I say thank you for showing me what's possible.

And that's a whole other place then. Oh, I'm not where they are. I suck versus this is on its way to me. I can't wait.

Thank you for showing me universe what I will become. So such a great way to you know, that reframe. I can remember one day and people I will write a book I getting there. I can remember when I'm currently prepping for the second book.

I'm going to pitch. But that's fine. So I can remember hearing someone else saying when I was 25 and it was shocking to me that this even is in my memory bank right. But this was how triggering it was to me.

I can remember my niece saying to me, oh, so and so from college we both went to the same college. She just wrote a gift book. And I was like, honestly, my my reaction was fierce. And I don't think I was fierce out.

Wiggly. I think I just had a fierce response internally. And I was 25 at the time. And I thought, how the hell did she achieve that?

But really, if I had had the maturity that I now have, I would have said, why am I having such a big reaction to this? And it's because I want that too. So what the hell am I going to do about it to make that more likely? You know, how am I going to get a book?

And I just realized now with the 12 plus years I have been living longer on this planet that so often that paying of insecurity or jealousy or comparison is just highlighting to us what our dreams are, even if we don't have words for them yet. It's so true. And you nailed it, even if we don't have words yet. And so it's just a reflection, you know, everything can become an opportunity, a learning experience.

And as I got deeper into my own journey, I recognized our values are so important, you know, coaching. We always start with the values, right? Live your values. And your values don't change their who you are.

We're a lot like onions. Like we have different layers. We go through different experiences, but who you are, the courts, it's what makes you go. And how we go about making our dreams come true is a very personal thing.

And so let's just take the idea of being an instant New York Times bestseller is like a big dream. Maybe that's a goal. We're writing the book, right? Somebody's values may be different and they're achieving that in a different way.

And I guess what I'm getting at is you have to honor your own path. For example, I do author mentorship and coaching. I've had author mentoring, like my clients who have gotten book deals without an agent. I've had others who got the agent.

I've had others who have gone to conferences and they met the perfect agent and I have other like everyone's path, the ultimate goal to get a book deal. But everyone's path, as long as you're living your values, you're being true to you and it looks very different. So there's no comparison in that sense. Like there is no comparison when you understand that, oh my gosh, I got my own.

I got to stay on my path. My path is for me. Right. And there is more than one path, but there's only one path that's yours.

Okay. So speaking of authenticity, when I started reading Joysica, I honestly, Shannon, I laughed out loud because people, she's so funny because I feel like you took the authentic sharing to the next level of this book. And the first chapter started with you confessing about binge watching Netflix while eating ice cream. And then the readers voice almost comes in to say, come on, Shannon, yourself, help writer, this is a very self-help.

I literally cracked up. I was like, and I don't like out loud chuckle very often. But I was like, that makes me so good. I've always found you to be really real.

But how did you feel like, was it nerve-racking to go to this extra level of kind of like vulnerability in this book? I think that's a beautiful question. Thank you, first and foremost, for recognizing that. Because when I wrote it, I kind of laughed at myself too.

Like if I was a reader, that would be good because it's a very serious topic. And I wanted a little bit of, you know, kind of a break in there. But the truth is, throughout the whole book, I made a promise to myself after I wrote self-love experiment, after I really found love, self-love, I made a promise to myself to never hold back. Like, one life is so short, we don't really have any guarantee.

And I spent too many decades hiding, hiding behind my fears, hiding behind who I think I should be and hiding behind worry about what other people should think. So I'm at a place in my life in my career where it was not it was easier to be super authentic than in raw and honest than it was to try to hide it or use certain words to can't encode it. And so really, that's what I mean, that's what I'm teaching, joy seekers about authenticity. You have to be who you are, that's who I am.

I can't not be me. I feel like you've never, you never say any of your books, but this one, it was, it's about saying like, I'm not better than you, I'm right here with you. And I felt like that was really refreshing because I do often find the online coaching world a bit plastic and fakie, even though we're still trying, you know, I know everyone's intentions are good. But for me, it was just like this kind of like, it's like a lemon sorbet rather than ice cream and it was kind of like the refreshing palate cleanser.

I love that. I love being compared to that. Yeah, you're leaving so Bay and a world of like fake colored and I really I'm really I'm typing you right now. You know, it's interesting because that's actually the conversation I had with my editor when she signed me.

So the same editor that worked on Adventures for your soul signed me immediately when she saw I was releasing this book like we were getting ready to pitch it and she said, you know, I appreciate your honesty and your realness and that's that's what we need. And I was like, yeah, that's what this book will be. And so it's been a mean focus, but it hasn't been a hard focus. It's actually so much, I have so much more freedom now.

I'm not stressed in my minds. I'm not picking apart myself. I don't judge myself. I mean, there's days, of course, we do, but but really there's a freedom that comes.

And that's ultimately what this book shares and the journey going to being who you really are unapologetically because there's always going to be people who don't like you. And that's not our business. Like, it doesn't even matter. You know, you like me.

I like you look at us. We connect. We love each other. You find the people and here's what I found.

I the more real I've been with who I am, the more I'm able to connect with the real people who are real with me. You're tried actually grows. You're true. Try to catch up until you do.

And that's really what it's about. Oh my gosh. So so true on that. I feel like there's a couple of things here.

One, you said, there's this theme of kind of like this ability to catch yourself, which I've noticed that I have grown ever stronger and with my years. Like it's not that I don't have bad days. It's that now I can recognize a trick or quicker. And I can, like you said, it would have taken you weeks to get over comparison when it took a few hours now.

You mentioned in the introduction of Joy Seeker that a lot of us are struggling and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I think most people are struggling in so many ways. And I think as a population, we're far from thriving. I mean, cliche, because that's my business.

But but do you think that this being our real selves, this authentic connection with our truth, just being us on unapologetically, is that a way out of that struggle? Is that a way out of that kind of sadness that so many of us feel sometimes? Yeah, I do 1,000%. We live in a culture where it's actually a lot of us have fears of what other people will think we want to fit in.

But ultimately, we don't fit in when we're trying to be like everyone else and everyone's trying to be like everyone else. There's just no one is meant to be in such a cookie cutter environment yet. That's what everything is kind of pushing against us. So to get to the point, I truly believe authentic living, which means living from your heart and being who you really want to be and who you are.

Of course, there will be fear that come up. That's part of life. But really, the same thing I learned through my grief, which in order to move through grief is the same thing that we need to move through fear, which is courage. And we're all all built courageous people.

We came to Earth, we're here. It's a tough place. Life is hard and that in itself takes courage. But I truly believe and with every fiber of my body that being who you really are, which it's so much easier than trying to be who you think you should be, whether it's the fears, expectations, the demands.

So yeah, I do feel we are all struggling in one way or another, but we can release that struggle by just showing more of us. And sometimes it's speaking your truth. Step up, say what you want to say. Sometimes it's doing what you want to do.

And sometimes it's just being who you are. Being who you are is so much easier than being who you think you should be. Oh my gosh, so good, Jen. But I want to, we had this conversation maybe six months ago, where we were saying, if you would have asked me a couple months ago or years ago, and you said, am I being authentic, we were like, yeah, we would say that.

And I think that's a key point because this is not at all a conversation of you're not doing it right. Be more authentic. It's nothing like that. It's really about be where you are and be with yourself.

Get to know yourself more. And as you go on this inner journey, your whole entire life will transform. You really will start to have more peace. You will start to have more abundance and more joy.

That's so true. That it's not that it's not that I was an authentic when I started my business, but like you said as well, that idea of allowing ourselves to change and grow, I have grown, I have changed. And so the person that I show up and the person I am and my teaching and in the world has had to grow and change too. Because that path of growth is what has been all the intake.

And I do think sometimes we can get a little bit stuck and there's a bit of lag there at times. I'm going to ask you the intermission questions now. And these are not the standard intermission questions because Shannon has already been asked those. So this is just that.

Can we be nosy about Shannon's life for a moment, Christian? Love it. Yeah, this is just where I get to be nosy. What was the favorite country you visited on your year-long trip, Shannon?

Spain, Barcelona. In fact, there's a whole chapter called Everyone Needs a Barcelona. Can you tell us about why Barcelona spoke to you? So for me, yeah, exactly.

You know, it's interesting because Barcelona was it's actually when I hit that point in my journey. I was there's this thing called the Paris syndrome where it's a real thing where people have expectations when they travel and they go to places and it's not what they thought. I was doing that. So like four months into my trip, I was like, go to Croatia.

I'm going to you know, and it's going to be great. And I get there in my expectations. I was like, what? And so there was all the pictures.

I was like, okay, cool. More Instagram photos. Okay. You know, and I got to a place where I said, I have to release all expectations in order for this to really be a joy-seeking journey.

And then very next place I went was a plane to Spain. And of course, I fell in love with it because I let go of all expectations. So that was an internal part. But also, I speak a little Spanish.

It was fun to practice that. The culture, the architecture, the food, it was the first city where I actually was like, I want to come back. I want to live here for a while. There's a beach right there.

It just has this vibrancy, this authentic part of living life from a bold place. And I really relate it to that. Everyone needs a Barcelona. Yes.

Exactly. What's on your bedside table at the moment? Can you remember? Yes.

So currently, crystals, I'm related to crystals. So I have some crystals. I also have the book called Living a Course in Miracles. And I have some coconut water.

You know, it's really interesting that you mentioned crystals. So when we're talking about authenticity, like I have tried to be interested in crystals. But like, you know, when we talk about authenticity, it's like, I do have some crystals around me, but they're not my path. You know, I've realized that.

And I respect that there's so many people's paths as I say. Yeah. I sit here and stare at this huge piece of emathas that was in my parents' home next to a massive piece of rose quartz that I took one time when I was. So I do have crystals around me.

But you know, it's funny because I feel like, for example, being in the spiritual world, a lot of people say, you need to have crystals. Well, I kind of got to this authentic place where, yeah, take a mollivre, get off my thing. I'm so glad. And I love that you said that because I think there's so many unspoken rules that we feel like we have to be a part of like, oh, this leader or this thought, you know, leader, author or coaches using this, my coach uses this, I should use it.

And if it doesn't resonate, chuck it, you know, like, oh, no, but even my closest friends are like, they laugh because when I went to each country, I basically needed another suitcase just for crystals. It's something I really love. It's funny because my boys, they call them rocks, right? They don't go to the crystal stores and getting rocks.

And it's like, yeah, shit, it's counting a whole bunch of rocks around the world. It's the only thing I brought back like friends didn't even get gifts. So I got crystals for me. What does it say in the life of Shenan look like now?

There is no same day that is the same, which I love. I just got back from recording the audiobook for Joy Seeker. I was in LA. I loved every second of that.

You know, I'm off to be on book tour now, so travel is still a part of my life. But I found that I have a home based in Portland, Oregon. I have a beautiful loft. So when I am there, it is such a serenity kind of experience.

I start my day with a nature walk with my dog. I do meditation every morning. Like I set a schedule and that has changed everything. I'm doing a lot more yoga.

And I write every day, whether it's for my blog, I'm working on my next book, even though we're getting ready to go and promote this. That's just my process. And I coach and I love it. I'm very connected right now.

Love it. What's the best book you read in the last year? Or did you stop right? You don't really read too much when you're right, do you?

Yeah, that'll change. I remember talking to you. I can't read anything when I write in the last couple books. That's how it's been.

But my next book is very much a beautiful and joy seeker. I take information and inspiration from everything. And it becomes that much deeper. So actually the current book that I'm reading, and it's actually, I'm not reading it anymore.

The best book I read in the past year is actually from one of my mentors and I dedicated the book to Summer Bacon and Dr. Peoples. She wrote Summer Bacon, wrote an autobiography called The Ceilings of Summer Bacon. Her life is fascinating and her writing.

She has other books, but this book was like she led herself be the writer. And it was so beautiful to pull into these stories. And she's a mystic and she's had a beautiful life. She lives in Sedona, Arizona.

So you go along on this journey of her life. Oh, I'm going to have to read it. So was it her authenticity that spoke to you in that book? Yes.

And I know her. She's been my mentor for 10 years. I love her. She's my coach.

And I work with her. And she's, I know she writes books, but it's interesting because in the book, and I often do this too, I put more in the book than I'm willing to share in person. Like my mom didn't find out that I was depressed until she read my first book. Like she's like, you were clinically depressed and suffered from drug addiction, because it's sometimes easier for us writers.

So I actually felt like I knew her better. And I, our friendship has grown so much just because of what she wrote in her book. And she put it out for the world. But I'm like, this happened to you, you know, when you were four, when you were 10, I didn't even know.

And it's a, yeah, authenticity brought us together. I am so with you about the writing thing. I consider myself a writer more than a speaker, which is hilarious because I have a podcast, but, and I have yet to write a book. But I totally am.

But I say to my clients, and I just find that I express myself so much better in writing than I think I do in spoken word. And even after my coaching sessions, I send extensive summary emails because that's how I bring information together. That's how I best communicate. And that's why in the start of my coaching programs, I always make people feel and an extensive pre coaching questionnaire because I know if they're anything like me, they'll do a bit of job of explaining how they feel in writing, then they will when they try and talk it out with me.

Yeah, yeah, for the most part, absolutely. I totally get it. What has been the most recent life lesson you feel like you've been learning? The most, I'm going to say surrender.

I mean, do we even master that one or is that one just come in rotation? I throw it. I was like, I'm full blown in it again. You know, it's, it's a, I've learned how to release expectations, which is a beautiful part, but there's certain things that I really am working towards and want, but it's just no matter what I do, I'm actually to that point, the biggest life lesson that I'm smacked up in the middle of.

And really, I see the light at the end of the tunnel is on the other side of surrender. It's learning to know that you don't have to do it all on your own. I'm really co-creating with the universe and allowing a team to help me now. And that's been transformational.

So, it's really around that. Yeah, I'm a little bit of a control freak. So that's definitely one of my lessons as well. I often say we can let go so we can grow.

And the more I let go, the more I get the lessons and skedaddle out of those lessons, thank goodness, because some of them are super hard. I can't believe I just said skedaddle. I love skedaddle because who doesn't want to skedaddle out of their life lessons? Can you use that word in your next book, please?

I'm like, that's the title. Out of your way. Skedaddle right out. It's such a good word.

Can we talk a bit about chances, come up a couple of times and so cute people. You just have to look on to his Instagram and you'll find how adorable chances. How is he going? How's he stealing into American life?

Because he was a failed foster, right? You were planning on actually adopting him or what was the plan there? It's interesting because I actually had, speaking of expectations and surrender and trusting yourself, I had a deposit down on a Golden Retriever puppy. I was going full blown to a dog.

I knew I wanted a dog and I was coming back from my trip traveling the world and I was going to get a dog at Christmas time. And when I saw the pictures of those dogs because I didn't relate to any of them, I was like, what? Like, I don't feel that connection. And I met with the woman.

I was already scheduled to go over to China to help volunteer. I was already going to be in Southeast Asia and then needed escorts to bring the dogs back. And I sat down with the owner of Golden Bon Rescue and she showed me, well, first of all, she said, okay, you're bringing six dogs back and I said, is it possible? I could adopt one.

And she said, well, you would have to foster first. And then I said, well, is there a male because I really want to be a male dog? She said, there's only one male dog in this group, all the others are females. And I said, can I see a picture?

And she showed me the picture and I kid you not like happy tears came to me in my whole first like, I felt like love it for sight. And I said, that's him. That's my dog. That's my dog.

And so they say, you know, with rescues, they choose you, you choose them, whatever, but we chose each other. Because as soon as I met him, he's amazing. And so I couldn't have asked for a better dog. There was a three, four month period where it was an adjustment for him.

But you know, it's so beautiful now. He knows he's an American citizen. He knows that he loves like, I'm his person, you know, at first, even the water tastes different. Like he wouldn't eat treats because he's like, what is this?

You know, he was used to being on the cement. So he's so happy though. He smiles. He always looks like he's smiling in the photos you post.

Like that's hilarious. Who new dogs smile like that. Yeah. So he's my little buddy.

And it's great chance for second chance of life. Has your definition of fulfillment changed through the joy-seeking process? Yeah, it certainly has. Thank you for that question because fulfillment before came from things.

And it came from the next like success, the go wait, the next book deal, anything, this peak experience is retracing. Fulfillment to me now is living in accordance with who you are. So it really fulfilled. I'm so fulfilled.

I'm so fulfilled. I'm so connected and happy. And I feel peace within my heart. That doesn't mean I don't feel like depressed or have off days, but I am overall really happy.

Do you know what's funny is I think the more fulfilled I become, the more prone I am to not just being the superficial like, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.

Totally. Yeah. Because I'm just more real as a human. And I think that goes with all of the emotions.

But I would agree I'm personally more fulfilled than I've ever been. But like you said, it doesn't mean that I don't have off days. Okay. So there was a quote that I pulled out of Joy-Sickit because it like spoke to me.

It was like one of those ones that jumped off the page. You wrote, feeling dissatisfied with your life is a signal that you're made for more. And I was like, holy moly. Boom.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Like how true is the statement that feeling dissatisfied with our lives is a signal that we're made for more.

I feel like our dissatisfaction has so much to teach us if we're willing to listen to it. I assume you agree. 100%. Yep.

That's exactly how I feel. And I'm so glad that you shared that quote because I remember when I wrote it, I had to stop and I had to make sure it was bold in the book. And I remember like putting it on a sticky note because that can help us do any time period, any transition, any any struggle we're going through in our life. If we feel dissatisfied in our job, if we feel in our relationships and where we live, it just is a signal that our true self, our inner guide is saying, guess what?

There's more for you out there. So, so take those steps and go for it. Like trust it. Absolutely.

I swear that you and I are like assigned to the same spiritual muse, by the way, like I feel like we just thought we'd do it. Yeah. Of course. Yeah.

We totally pull on the same stuff. When you reflect on your own joys seeker journey, what are some of the biggest takeaways or the simple little lessons that you feel like you've really integrated from it? One of the biggest ones is I really am more present now. I have an appreciation for life that I didn't have before and I'm more compassionate to everyone.

All cultures, of course, because you know we saw so much, but ultimately, I really got to place room no longer. I didn't realize that I had judgment on others in their journey or feeling like I should be farther along. All of that was completely removed and it's a constant connection with self that allows everyone else to just be where they are and love them through it instead of trying to change them or fit into a certain mold. Oh my gosh.

I feel like we need to talk about that more because I was actually just thinking because Shannon and I connected to the same use. This was coming up to me clearly. But when I was thinking about, you know, I think there's a shift in development where a lot of people I think can think they're better than someone else because they might be let's say further along if we want to use that language and whatever journey of self discovery, whatever it might be. And I feel like with myself, there's been this honoring of I'm no better than anyone else.

No one else is more special, no more unique, more, you know, like you said, this leading goal of judgment and I'm not right and you're wrong. And that to me has been really freeing. But I think it's kind of hard to explain as well. Yeah, I think, you know, it's hard to explain.

It can only be felt in the heart. And I think as I hear you say, I know it because I'm living at you're living at. But I think what we can do is just look out and we see it things either feel like they're of same heart and it or they're not right. And so there's lots of books, lots of teachers, lots of coaches out there and not everyone is going to resonate with everyone.

So letting people be where they are. And I used to, like you said, like we were saying, you know, kind of judge that process like, you know, what are they doing or why are they getting more people, whatever it is. But ultimately, like you said, it's freeing and that's what we want like free ourselves because ultimately what's happening is there's a lot of junk like a lot of stuff blocking us from being who we like leading the life we're made for. And I take people in the Joyce Eker process too.

There's a section where I talk about how we idolize people. And that's actually a barrier that we don't really talk about in the community, but whether it's your own coach or another someone who seems farther along, we feel like they're better. And as soon as we recognize that we are all equal, know it is better. It's up to, you know, some of these people, I do find they have egos and want, they get a kick out of feeling like they're high mighty, you know, like, oh, I'm selling out big stages or multi-sell or whatever, that's their journey.

So let them have their egos. I choose real. I choose authenticity. I choose to know that we are all together on this journey.

And that's what you had said came through in the writing, which is really cool. Oh my gosh. That's so what I came through. And do you know that the interview that is released next month is with Monica Berg.

And we're talking all about ego versus consciousness and the energy that comes with that. So the people stay tuned, subscribe, make sure you don't miss that. But I think it's the perfect follow on from exactly what we're talking about here, like, and what you're talking about in that self-transcendence of, you know, when we move into a way from trying to prove our worth in some way. And then just move into this place of, well, you could say service or, or just being aligned with our own path, which I think is one of the hardest things to do in the world, but the closer you get, the better it feels.