Hi, and welcome to classical stuff. You should know a new podcast in the first episode. It's our first episode. No, we are going to say a new hope, like the second episode of Star Wars.
Is this season two? I know we already did season two. It was the quarantine stuff. Oh, that's the first episode.
First episode. In-show classical stuff, you should know we are a podcast about classical education, the classical world, old things, learning stuff, and, yeah, that's what we like. We do. We're 150 episodes, and we still don't have the intro nailed down.
Great. But first of all, I'd like to say just a big thank you to you, gents. AJ, for your quarantine stuff. You should know.
I think it was a lot of great promises, and scant delivery. Wow. I mean, it's just par for the course. How much?
A podcast for the course. How much? Not for you. It's up to you.
Yeah. It's up to you. It's just par for the course. It's all good.
It's just par for everybody in the world. For our list of reasons. For 20, it was par for the course for 2020. I did realize that a daily podcast was a huge commitment.
Yeah, Joe Rogan Man Hatsoff. It was taking a massive massive... Well, he's got cronies to help him. God, at it.
I didn't even implore you. cronies? When you came, you called whatever you wanted to. Anyway, anyway, we got it.
They were good and maybe your thoughts from purgatory were great. Okay. Thanks. And actually it inspired me to start reading Dante during the lockdown Oh, great I was reading it can't do a day But I'm only in I'm just in the place where they put all the corrupt politicians in the jar pit of jar pitch Oh, yeah, you're selling in turn of the rafters where they stab them with bitch works in the what is it the Malab ranch?
Yeah, and the big demon farts at the end of the book Malakota, right? Yeah, I bet the knifers love that book I tell them I'm like listen. It says the a word let's be adult about it Because let's go up a little bit which means they are gonna giggle all by themselves forever Anyway, so Yeah, I'm sure you actually think that what I really do is just like and then we're skipping on to this part over here And they just never know that we're back spring break is done and Our wow our former spring break is that our frees out is over anyway for those of you who listen to us and enjoy us Yeah, it's been crazy times in Texas with the lockdown school shut down and then the state lockdown and now cases are still They're falling which is really good But it was some crazy times and we love podcasting together and so at the beginning maybe we sort of like we're foolish and saying Yeah, we'll just wait a couple weeks till this blows over we won't podcast on zoom or whatever and then we just stuck to that So anyway, we're back and here we are but we haven't been idle while we were locked down Oh, we've been planning some stuff, but anyway, maybe today you are going to talk to us about How you are Today why those guys are in the first place. Oh gosh.
Yes. It is the grafters Graphers are like Yeah, skin graphs I get you like I think this is a different definition of grafting which is weird It's like it's kind of like Simon II pretty sure it's with the local office grifting. No grifting is a different thing That's where I like I'm like trying to see the ball in the cups and I switch What's our money after these aren't songs what do you make this one? I did okay grifting is engaging in petty or small-scale swindling graft is you're selling office, right?
Oh, man, and Simon is specifically church office. I stand corrected. I just own nightmare and We are in agreement so far and ITEM a HR right? Yeah, okay.
I guess I can start my rambling again. Okay, good So what's droning? Are you referencing that my favorite email that we received? I apologize Yeah, there's nothing to apologize for I listen or if you'd care to brave it there anyway, whatever boring episode It's like great.
Okay, so In the same topic of droning say we are gonna be talking about patronage patronage is the general topic for today I guess I can go into why I picked this topic in the first place When you all hear the word patronage what what first comes to mind? What are you thinking of? Renaissance art I think of like veggies and and then like how schools in Florence getting money to paint stuff The first thing comes to mind is that guy who hired Michelangelo to make his tomb with something like wasn't it like 40 figures on it? It's crazy different statues and then he only got through like 19 and then I kicked the bucket I had before it was done something like that I still didn't finish it I think I never got fully finished, but it was this huge plant piece and then it just stalled in the works Or maybe he couldn't pay for it.
I think that's what happened is Michelangelo got part of the way through and then the guys Like I'm too poor now. It's actually that's actually funny because in reading about this normally artists would get their patronage ahead of time And then do the work and so I it's what you just said if I wonder if they paid for a certain amount and then he died You know, I mean, right? That was the end of it. So he wasn't gonna work anymore after that I mean, I wouldn't it kind of love the art guys isn't that what it's really about.
I guess that is important to my first time of thinking about this topic in any serious way was about a year and a half ago at this point So dream back with me gentlemen to a time before I had a child before there was a quarantine in effect before there was a global pandemic And travel was like a thing that was possible my wife and I traveled to Boston over New Year to New Year's ago We did that because we wanted to go see snow for the New Year, but unfortunately it rained it did not actually snow It was very depressing As a part of our trip up to Boston. We took a stop at the Isabella Stewart Stewart Gardner museum Does the city is that heck if I know I've been are you familiar with Boston? Yeah, yeah, there's a museum that's like on the right on the east side of the city close to the water That's the only one I know I don't remember they're being water nearby. It's passed in I think you know, so sorry I'll try and do better for the rest of this episode.
Yeah, but there's a park next to it I'm pulling up a map which is riveting for podcast listeners guys. How are you enjoying? That's kind of close. I mean, it's an old Boston kind of near the water.
Yeah, but I mean like it's not on the water though So anyway, so anyway, so I have the wall of donors No, actually the just I'll give you the name again the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum Do you want to guess who was like foundational to this to this museum existing is that Queen Isabella? No, it's not it the one One is one zero for one zero for one just to be clear. No, the one's name is in fact Isabella Stewart Gardner? That's her full name born Isabella Stewart eventually married into the gardener family It's like Joe Veritas who gave all this money to Veritas Academy, which is where our name ultimately comes from obviously He's a dirty liar that guy Veritas a thing that listener.
I don't know if you know you two I don't know if you all know this museum is famous for An art theft that took place there. Oh, so I'm in the 90s. Is that the one where the guy stole all the birds? No, that's the natural history.
No, but New podcast episode about that because a guy stole all these birds and then anyway, he was a fish lure tire And they had like he was part of this whole society that tied fish lures So he ran this heist where he stole a bunch of birds specimens from the natural history museum Yeah, and then their feathers were perfect for the lures Well because they were endangered birds and you couldn't you literally couldn't get them anymore And he was part of this like ancient society of adventurers that would go and steal all these So he got them sold them all and then they didn't realize for like two months that the birds were even gone Right, and then he like I can't get him back. They didn't convict him. He made fish lures out of them No, he didn't give me I forget But yeah, he like apparently sent him in packets all over and they tried to get some back and all the fishing community guys were like Oh, right. I forget if he was convicted or he turned himself in.
I'm trying to remember it. I forget I don't remember anyway, I think that's a disamerican life episode, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's great.
Go check it out. Go check it out. Go listen to podcast a couple of stars first So it's like the Tom's crown fair. So what happened?
Remember that about your sprawling movie? No, are we on tangent train right now? Okay, so So that I'm gonna tell you why we went to this museum in the first place and then I hope you all make fun of me The most famous exhibit according to whatever research we did before going there is a blank exhibit a picture frame with no picture inside of it During this art house there were 13 pieces that were stolen from the collection value today over half a billion dollars half a billion dollars Two people showed up. They were dressed as guards and they showed up When I am like the morning after St.
Patrick's Day, it's like anyway, so like during St. Patrick's Day celebrations They it's more and more Boston the way. Yeah, that's actually how they were able to sneak in is because there was so much like hubbub from the St. Patrick's Day celebrations Like no one was really paying attention and they entered and they were able to steal 13 pieces again value and half a billion dollars the most of most They stole three works of Rembrandt.
That's like the main thing that they were really after so Rembrandt Manet de Gaulle were a part of the collection I had popped up around the room the pieces have not been found and no one has been convicted part of these stuff So if I'm not if it's not the largest unsolved art heist, it's the you know, most recent the largest most recent unsolved art heist If that's the right way to say it. So so that's what originally kind of picked our interest to go check that out. Um, does it? So you said there's an empty so that you're still there to come.
Yes, so to commemorate those paintings. They still have the So now the theft has become art that people pay to go see. Yeah, I say that if they pay to go see I don't know if you all are connecting the connection in my mind was that so there are 13 pieces and those are valued at half a billion dollars So that's a lot of money. Um, I think that speaks to the quality of the collection if you think about it, right?
That's only 13 of the pieces. Do you want to take a guess at how many paintings are in this collection? No, it's not right. That's number if you were 122 cool.
Great. 45 great. 7500 paintings Yes, yes, well, I don't have this in mind. It's here But as a part of the story gardeners will the music only space.
Yes, this is her personal collection. Thank you You're drawing the connections for me. This is her personal collection. It was she's a patron of the arts.
Thank you. Great. You're making. Thank you Um, but also as a part of her will she set aside a million dollars in 1924.
So that's worth a gajillion now Uh, but also as a part of her will said that the pieces of art can't be moved in the museum. So wherever they were left It's how that's exactly right. Um, but like as a part of the museum, I'm not able to move those paintings around So she not only donated it, but she designed it and part of her will is like, don't you dare move this? Yes, if I'm not mistaken this was her house that she lived in Okay, I'm trying to remember.
I can see that. You know, you're coming in like a little like stuff. Yeah, especially if it is literally your house You know, what's it called when um, there's like a space in the middle of the house and it's like an open ceiling Yeah, so there's an atrium in the middle with like this kind of Greco-Roman style like tile and like designs on the ground Anyway, it's really really cool. But apparently it was there well her and her husband's house, which was in decked out with all of this All these paintings sculpture furniture.
I said 7500 I'll just read 7500 painting sculptures furniture textiles, silver and ceramics So I'm slightly overstating those aren't all paintings 1500 rare books and 7,000 archival objects from ancient Rome medieval europonesons, Italy And from a bunch of other places. So where did she get her money? So, um She was the heir to a fortune from her both her parents both her parents worked in the linen trade Would you ever check the linen to be the thing that makes you a ton of money? But uh, they somebody's making money on sheets apparently in the 18 what early it's early 19th century because she was born in 1840 So I don't know when her parents died.
Um, yeah, it's got her family. So it's got a sense fortunately Irish linen trade There are also some mining investments that they had so that's on the one side I mean that makes sense. A lot of people were like miners back then you changed the sheets way more often Yes, it was just a dirtier time. Yeah, people were just dirty Um, she also married her husband Jack Gardener So again Isabella Stewart was the name she was born with and then when she married she became Isabella Stewart Gardener So took on the last name Gardener made money through shipping His father made money from shipping pepper, I want to say to those states and then he eventually had just a a global shipping Uh company the spice was floating.
It's by is that dune? Is that something right now? Oh, I'm excited. Are you?
Yeah, okay, because uh the blade runner he did was so good. I'm not exactly scared I think I think blade runner is actually bad. You didn't like the new blade runner I I think I was distracted by the visuals of the movie to ignore that there's no story in it That's the point. Okay, but that's born.
I mean the visuals were quite beautiful. Yeah, sure But like I can go see paintings uh, AJ in fact, uh, owns a what's the print that you have? That's from the original blade runner though, isn't it? Tim Doyle printed the original.
Yeah, anyway, that's my way speaking of patrons of the arts. Oh, I actually patronized Tim Doyle He just opened up, uh, so Tim if you're listening, you know, he doesn't just opened up covid patronage So I bought a watercolor painting. I commissioned one. What is when you say covid patronage?
That's just like a stuck at home So he's drawing and he's making some money from his drawings. So okay, so where are we right now? We are with is Bell Stewart Gardener. She is wealthy too.
I'm here to wealth and also Uh her husband had made money as well. They have a bunch of money There's a whole set story. I'm not gonna go into they had no children. Um, and this was a thing that put her into a Depression that she eventually came out of the thing that brought her out of that depression was support of the arts It was a year in Europe traveling around seeing beautiful works I'll do it is what reawakened her to like hope for life.
Um, they had no children Um, and I think those are tied together of her having no children gave her freedom of time and money to spend on other things Again, this ultimately leads to 7500 painting sculptures and furniture, 1500 rare books, 7,000 art. So she spent her life collecting and buying and cultivating this collection Yes, and I would say yes on the support of the art itself But then also intended to eventually gives that to the city. Yeah, you think about it I mean go to any major american city in this you get the story. There's a big house turn museum in houston with the same kind of story I'm sure uh, the the uh here in austin the blanton has a big donation from family.
It's just like it's a it's a You wonder if that's still a thing Of massing the large collection. Yeah, or if it's still if you still have that um, just because now I think a lot of people think of art as an investment or you hear that people talk about art as an investment Yeah, I just wonder if we're still if in our generation, uh, the art collectors are going to donate it to donate it to museums Or if they're gonna have like, you know, these things are gonna auction it off for whatever I don't know I guess there's no way of knowing and even to tell the story of one person who's collecting art isn't to say that all art collectors Yes, some people keep private collections and keep them private. Um, but yeah, I think it's a piece of the story that's interesting is that yes She had an amount of wealth. Yes.
She amassed a collection for herself But with the eventual goal of sharing that with others bringing others into it the other side of it is that from working with artists She eventually developed enough relationships to have paintings done herself, right? There's also the side of her commissioning the work of artists to Um, remember did you work with anybody? Well, no, I don't have a list in front of me. Uh, I believe that way that wouldn't be Pollock in the time machine.
No, um, so I don't have anything in front of me Uh, but for whatever it's worth not I believe some of the paintings of her are not only in her museum Gotcha. I mean that is a way of saying like there's a quality to them where they are kept in other museums as well Gotcha, so just painting projects. Yes. Oh, uh, just a There's a actually an expect to talk about is weird this long.
Oh, sorry But there's a painting of her at the museum that's striking for it's her dressed in black with this light behind her And it for knowing a little bit about her story. It is interesting for the sadness of her life plus the hope that she eventually Walked into into her life. It's recorded as one of like the important paintings that are there So if you look it up and it's someone famous who painted it, then uh, I'll feel done Um, what's the point that I'm getting to here? Um, this family the gardener family amassed a large amount of wealth But the purpose of that wealth didn't only stay with them.
It wasn't only for their comfortable lifestyle Though they traveled. I mean they had a nice house. There was comfort to their life But it was for using that wealth to improve the city around them the space around them and specifically to improve the lives of artists as they were collecting and Buying works from them right to train that. Um, this this is meant as an introduction into an entry into our topic of patronage that Isabella specifically but Isabella and Jack together were patrons of the arts.
Uh, I guess when I I'll say when I use that term, I mean that they supported the arts that they were supporting the lifestyles of people making good work Is there a better sort of better definition of patronage as I as we go into I mean we have we use it as a pejorative term now Like a patronizing. Yeah, sure. Um, I was gonna say or political patronage Um, a graft to go back to that. Um, great.
Grief. Sorry. I see. Wait, hold on.
I'm sorry. Thanks. No, I'm like, I can't remember what I did. Um, so maybe there's a negative connotation that's there too.
Um, uh, for patronizing But I mean like my wife and I back when you could we had some season tickets to the symphony And they make reference to thank you for patronizing the arts even in our little humble symphony season tickets Yeah, but um, that's interesting even in theater. You typically you can just buy season tickets. That's fine option But usually you'll pair that with a donation and you don't get I mean, but they don't say that the movie theater Like when you go to watch blockbuster, they're not like thank you patrons. And why would those be different?
Uh, maybe I mean There was a connotation of just like taster quality of art or whatever middleman, right? Yeah, if I'm paying an art dealer I wouldn't say I'm patronizing the arts. I'm not paying the artist directly If I purchase someone to or if I like pay a director to make a film to my desires that is patronizing the arts I think so if I'm a producer, I would say I'm a patron if I'm simply a person who goes to see it I mean, you're then you're just people use the term patrons to describe, you know People who attend movies and people who attend things or who attend galleries or to attend galleries, right? But I would say that maybe it's the middleman that makes a difference So the patron is the person that Sort of helps bring the vision to life through other finances, but just also some sort of support Feels like all those words that is going to change meanings depending on where how it's used as if you go to library You're called a patron, right?
Yeah Yeah, don't they say that I'm like the PA systems attention patrons a lot of words closing in I've heard like grocery stores I wrote I had patronizing the cows Well, I mean we do this all the time I got the mail today saying that a my broker got bought by a bigger broker And it was like welcome to the blood, you know, whatever the broker's name. I was give the name of blaze Yeah, welcome to the blaze family. I was like I'm so proud to be part of the place You know giant brokers family sure don't all companies Usually think of that as employee languages, right? One big family.
I don't know. Just why don't you just cheapen family? Oh wow? There's a topic.
Okay, um, okay This is fair of saying that there are different definitions that we could use here I think a point that you all are pulling on of the amount of engagement with the art is probably helpful Yeah, because I think of true patronage It is I think of that renaissance either for the for the vanity of the patron or the person actually believes in The artist's vision or what they're doing and then says well, I have I want to make sort of this vision come to life So there's something of the whims or wishes of the patron in the patron I like I will put myself in a painting of the crucifixion like standing there being like well Yeah, or you know like have them paint my family or have them paint something in my house I'm purchasing their work for partially for my vision if my vision coincides with theirs that different issue That's interesting. Let's we'll see if we can connect some of these things so We've used a more modern example to start off It's hard to when I think patron into the first thing that comes to mind is the metagies for me because I'm a nerd or whatever You were a banker. I was a banker and Isn't that what they teach you the meta about isn't like It's actually interesting the first thing you learn is about the metagies. So No, but JP Morgan the man What I talk about gardener in the beginning here But JP Morgan also has a house in New York that you can go to that is like the gardener residence It's his collection of um of art.
It's also his house. One of the rooms is designed with a Siennese like from Sienna, Italy a Siennese um seal of I don't know if it's the bank of no The bank the metagies are from Florence. So it wouldn't be Siennese But anyway, just to say it's some Siennese bank logo is what he's decorated its entire room with Um, what did I say that? That's hilarious because I used to be bankers.
So there's connections here between all these things though Um anyway, that was very very cool. So if you're in New York go check that out if you're You have to do that now that the camera's on. Do we have to look at it? Uh podcast listener.
Whoops You would have no way of knowing that. I mean, I know hold new kettle of fish boys I don't know what that means. We'll connect all these things in a second. So the there's a there's a There's a there's a part here that I have not personally been able to understand So I'll start talking and then we'll see if we can connect these things.
Um, the metagies are one of the longest running most successful I mean until they weren't families in Italy um based in uh florence, I guess is the I'm overstating because they eventually are all over Italy, but um, they have a family dynasty that lasts from the 13th century through the 18th century. I mean, it's what is that 500 years of Prominence of four members of the family end up becoming popes multiple become, um, dukes and toucheses Because there's a whole family Four of those men were the holiest men. Yeah, that's a family tradition It's like, yeah, I mean my family is not catholic, but you know if my son groups would be like, that's pretty cool You know, like a big church going bankrupt. That's exactly right, but uh, you know, I do not know the details Metagies becoming pope.
I'm sure there's much more to it. So anyway, I'm sure we'll get a wonderful email about that They just did good things in the world. Yeah, exactly. They were respected for the virtue It's kind of like that story from the de camaron about the um, what's the guy who was a super center and he wanted to ask for forgiveness?
I like that story a lot. He uh, he won it's the The guy goes to the priest and he's like hey father any forgiveness and he's like I did a horrible thing And the priest is like what'd you do? And the guy goes I uh stole a penny like he said he remember this you told the story He admits some really small crying some very small sin in the piece And then he had to like pray for a while and then the priest like thinks he's a holy man And so then the the funeral for him is like celebrating him as a holy man. Oh, that's right He was this episode.
I'm terrified right now. Well, no, I'm glad there are a few about like people paying penance and having to pray And so I'm just thinking of the one way he turns the least he was a horrible horrible person How do we try to priest again? And then eventually they regard him as a saint in the whole community is like this guy was saintly when really he was a terrible liar Yeah, I think it was a great liar. I mean Anyway, so um that metagies initially Gather wealth from selling pectiles.
That's the that's like garner It's way. Wait. Hold on something here. Uh, and then they eventually will found the metagie bank out of that um, and this Uh, makes them even more fabulously wealthy than they were Um, I'll read just a list of things that so they make all this money That's part number one.
But then the question is what do they do with that money? Right? An option would be just to spin it on themselves. I'm sure they had a lavish lifestyle but in addition to that The mentorship family was involved in financing.
They did not themselves anyway If they were involved in the financing of the piano that seems like kind of a cool thing You mean like the invention of the piano of the piano the piano we have that because the metagies in part The construction of Saint Peter's Basilica. Uh, they were involved in their patrons of um, uh, uh, Buticelli, uh, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Raphael, Machiavelli, Galileo, um, among others. What'd you say? I said, uh, shredder.
Yeah, yeah, uh, crang This guy with the brain in his belly. Yeah, cray. And then what's the other one? Bebop and rocks then?
Also Italian. Great. Good. Yeah.
Bebop. All of them Have I ever talked to you about how I thought the Ninja Turtles was an interesting like discussion about immigration or about? Maybe that's another option. Or just like integrating, you know, how much you take from the homeland, how much do you put into like your american spin on?
No, it's for uh, turtles who want to eat pizzas Shredder wanted them to like honor their heritage, but the Ninja Turtles just wanted to do american things. It's all there I don't think it is. Um, they, um, um, in reading about the metagies, um, um, one question is like why When I say Renaissance, I mean, Italian Renaissance in case that matters to anyone and there's a question of like why the Italian Renaissance happened when it did and where it did in one way of answering that question is patronage, the wealth of the metagies concentrated in Florence created a Um, culture of additional patronage the metagies were so powerful if people wanted to um, please the metagies to get some kind of favor They would try and play the same game, right? Well, the metagies would like the way that they showed their power was by wielding patronage.
Yes, and commissioning artworks. Yeah, so if you wanted to appear also just as rich You did the same thing. You didn't afford it. There's gardens as well.
Like they would they would sponsor public gardens or big, you know, that had shows of wealth Having fountains was real hard. I didn't look at the name, but there are these beautiful gardens in Spain They're mad. It's they were either royal gardens or the they were private. They were meant only for one family But upon death it's a gift to the city.
It's for all people to go and enjoy. How are those gardens called? They're on top of a little hill? That sounds right.
Um, shoot. I'm sure they're a bunch of Italy too. Um, but it's all the same idea that we're getting at. So what am I saying?
You could build it in civilization four. I I don't think I've ever played civilization four. Sorry. I tried five and never finished a game of it.
So I'm sorry and then I quit the game. So I'm sorry. Um, so That's uh, that's a building. That's a fort.
Yeah, I thought it was garden. Um, there might be a garden attached to it. We're gonna get emails about this one. Um, what's the point?
So the minute he's made a bunch of money, but there are lots of rich people in history who we don't remember the name of right merchants aren't like we don't sit around and say, oh, That's great merchants like we're so thankful that they made money because they didn't they weren't patients because they didn't so like the Jack Stewart who I told you Up before you ever heard of the stewards because of their or I'm sorry, Jack Gardner. Did you know about the pepper trade from the 19th century? Like does that even though it made this family wealthy? Does that matter?
It's not on my Robert Baron flashcards. Thank you. It doesn't really matter 200 years later. As opposed to work of the metagies put in, uh, you know, potentially launched the Renaissance and provided like the most important paintings writing thoughts even by supporting Galileo scientific The Cathedral influence was that them?
Is that the Santa Maria del Flora? No, what's that? I think maybe Santa Del Mire Santa Maria del Furies. Oh, no, it might be.
It's the fourth. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, okay.
Yeah, right. Yes, and and also the What is it called the doors of a parent the gates paradise? It was a beautiful carved door that wrote and responded to later. Yeah, and that's In giving only like the top highlights again, it's like essentially anything from the 13th century of Florence to the 18th century the Metagies were probably involved in right like they just had a lot of involvement in all of those things.
Um, but they We I don't know how often do you talk about the metagie bank? Like it's hard to it's hard to imagine that that would have lasted beyond its time Um, without them putting that investment into um art and things that would last beyond Um, the point AJ raised before that I want to make sure not to move past is that also I don't know if you all have this association of think I typically think of patrons as like um, silent partners in the business context like they give money and then the artist kind of does whatever they want to and then like That's you know, there's not a partnership there. Uh, that would not have been true that the patrons were very involved in the work of Um, either the art itself in commissioning literal pieces, right make a painting of me, right? It was it was a commodity.
Yes, and the The artisans of the middle ages the artists were not I don't know if there was this like Artistic temperament they could paint and they could paint well and they knew the technicals of it a lot of it was geometry and so they sold Their abilities they didn't have to get into a poetic mood to do it Right, they had to gather snails and mash them up and make the pigments and then do the job because they're supposed to paint on the floor Right. That's what I had to do But there's this kind of there's this recognition of you know, um, you just Crushing up your snails and then going out to the market probably isn't gonna get you a living right like you wouldn't be able to Um, survive just on that and so there is some amount of help that's needed But there's something in return for that right? You're providing a service for a wealthy powerful family like the Medicines or whoever else your patron is Um forget who I think Michael Angelima at some point might have been um patronized or whatever the term would be by by the pope at the time Like that's that's what the sistine shop is that yeah, and that's where like you get the There's this whole social level to it. I'm not really gonna go into like who Patronizes the work determines your social status determines like almost the success of the project, right?
I mean, that's it's almost ever from quality. Yeah, it's a quick explanation It's like if if the people that have have the most cultivated tastes are the rich and cultured Right the culture more the artists that cultured were the wealthy right that had the ability to like not work and cultivate their manners and read and learn and Be educated then their discernment in choosing you especially if they were the most wealthy like if they had the most money to spend They can buy the greatest artist right and so when they choose you it legitimizes you right and it works both ways Yeah, but that's interesting. It's a lot of relation Yeah, you bring your great art to them and make them look good They bring their taste to you and so you get the social standing of being the best artist around because the richest people chose you Right, so there's probably rich people that patronize like who had really bad taste and patronized artists that could give them something really bad Or they were like patron they wanted to patron, but they were still cheap So they like got like instead of Michelangelo. They got like his kid brother who couldn't do it very much Yeah Painting a beautiful sistine chapel like I want you know like like you know dirty humor jokes in my in my toilet And this is just don't last so I'm sure that money flew around But we just don't have them anymore because at some point someone's like ooh, this is gaudy and got rid of it So a good example from modern day would be like Bugatti so to bring cars in Bugatti makes like rolling pieces of art Those cars are incredible 1500 horsepower.
Yeah, it's car 1500 horsepower they've got they go 300 miles an hour those things are insane it costs like five million dollars a piece So they make only a few right they bring some sort of like legitimacy to the people who purchase them right if I drive I look really good makes me look like I have good taste and Bugatti exists because rich people are willing to buy their works of art Right, so it's a symbiotic relationship. We've got to get a lot of money for the car the car legitimizes the people who buy what's my Much lower. It's a it's like a when your niece paints a rock and hands it to you, but it's useful. Yeah, sure Do you call car paperweight?
Is that what's happening right there? Maybe? Okay, it's a painted paperweight So again Association that I have so first would have been that kind of silent partner relationship that would not be what a patron You know depends on your time period depends on the patron, but that's not typically what is happening in that in that situation I think the other one is that so the other association I have is that you know a patron if they're involved would be like distracting from the project itself Like they're a negative influence on the project whenever they get involved and maybe again You all are better than the minute. She's being like make me buffer.
Yes, exactly Or they'll say you know the shade of blue you're using for the sky is wrong even though it's the right one That's a you know like it more kind of bad taste maybe to use age as an example from before there's a story I heard a long time ago that I don't I don't know if it's true it's probably all apocryphal But when michael angelo was finishing up the data He you know was working on it and then one of his patrons comes in and looks at it and and says You know hey if he knows the nose doesn't look quite right michael angel looks at it He doesn't you know he realizes the nose is perfect, but the patron saying it doesn't look quite right Can you like take a little bit off the nose? Maybe make it a little smaller it looks a little too big right now And so michael angel goes up to the statue and he takes his chisel and he makes the motion as if he's cutting off Or tapping off part of the nose But what he's doing is he's hitting it off to the side to brush up some dust into the air to make it look like he's Right To make it look like he's making that noise and kind of make it sound like that to then turn back to his patron and say oh Well, thank you for that wonderful advice doesn't look so much better even though he didn't actually take it So he's just good at managing his pictures Yes, well, that's that's the version of the story I've heard as far as i can tell it never happened And also I think aj's point is more spot-on is that um there is a The acquisition of wealth is not only you know have more money It is a social standing as well probably even especially 500 years ago as compared to today And so you would again this is not everyone there are so porous rich people but at all periods of time But that you are especially in a Dynasty like the metichies you're raised up into a certain taste and social standing and then to which you would trust a metichie over A new artist that that makes sense a new artist or a new patron new artist So as an artist you probably also wanted metichie tobacco as opposed to because we're probably one something more grumpy. Oh, yes The grumpy old bank family. Yes.
Oh, yeah, the one comes straight. Yeah, I love the grumpy house High rates those yeah, but yeah, I think I think we actually still see this right we look to famous people like I can't help but think of that Song Gucci gang Gucci gang Gucci gang Gucci Can't help but think of yourself. They're talking about Gucci Yes, it's like people sing about high-cost brands all the time Yeah, and so they are they as the wealthy are saying this stuff is the stuff that's valuable And so we the not the the pores I'm poor would be like okay the thing to aspire to is Gucci To have all these things and people spend money on it if you're a luxury brand you're in a difficult situation wherein you want that exposure But if you if you churn out tons of Gucci stuff eventually you're not going to have that mystique anymore That's the thing is the way you get that exposure is by doing what the artist did Which is by getting adopted by the most wealthy if I if I run a luxury brand I don't make a thousand handbags I get Kanye to give his wife one of my handbags her gift one single product enough to make me famous They have the taste I have the artistry. It's a symbiotic relationship still happens I don't know all the details because all you're not well versed in Gucci gang I was gonna say an example in the I'm trying to look it up I think they've been acquired if I'm looking at this correctly um coach This is what happened to coach of originally was had more of a luxury Association overproduced things I think they have like a an outlet kind of model also Which if you're really high-end you wouldn't have and that kind of undermined it right that it was it wasn't worth the high price At some point it just became about the quality of the bag itself But if you're giving me luxury brand why don't you call yourself coach?
Yeah, right I fly first class You want to start a fashion legal culture class? Well, that's just it's like labeling your whiskey fancy whiskey. Yeah, you know, that's not good. You can trust that one A I think maybe for us to talk about after this episode I think that might sell that let's be have you seen smart water?
I mean how far off is that? Well, it's more to drink water. Sorry. I'll use my water drinkers So I think that I I have not totally reconciled in thinking through all of this is that In There's like the association between like the popularity of a thing and the quality of a thing Because in some level what we're saying would lead to if more people like it connect with it Whatever they will buy it, but not all popular things are good This is maybe a small niggling point But I just um it's kind of a question I have with this and there are also tastemakers We don't agree with it or trust or whatever.
Um, so anyway, maybe topic for sometime later But also the Medicis are operating in a time before you had a sort of ubiquitous or deeply entrenched market forces You do now in the modern the modern art world. So right now we've got things geared towards, you know, product and scale and selling Whereas in, you know, 14th century, Italy You don't have that same those same sort of market forces for the artistic Even I thought you said that there's the connection to your city You are commissioning a work commissioning a work for your city to increase the renown of your city Um, there's like an there's an honor element to it of you want your city to be well respected and you want to be the top of the heat And so it's nasty wealth. Yeah, right and so you care gibblings. Yeah, it's interesting I thought about that.
Um, but there's something to that like face-to-face interaction of it You know the person you're supporting you're directly doing that for them. Okay. Um, so where are we right now patrons are great They do great work. Um, and I forget where I heard this one of course It's a new it's that sort of model is the internet has now made that model more more available for everything Yeah, that's probably the right segue out of this topic.
Um, so what historically has been the purview of only a few Again, the Medici family a few other very successful. You said rubber barons before so some equivalent of that As a parent. I don't know what you want to say rich people right people entrepreneurs It's not only that because by again if you're an eight hundred year dynasty only the first ones are the entrepreneurs Um, inherited wealth. Um, so I think that historically has been only for the wealthiest or the wealthiest again Someone who had a million dollars in 1924 to leave to this like in addition to gifts that she gave to her family That was is a bell stewardner from the beginning.
Yeah had Obviously invested in or obviously had the taste in something that had the staying power so that when a tiny fraction of it got stolen it was you know 130 times the original I didn't make that connection and I should have said it earlier if 13 of those pieces are worth half a billion dollars Again, they probably got the most expensive ones like I know that but again if you have 131313 thousand other no 16,000 other things that could have stolen you know, I mean like the value of that collection is Almost innumerable other than the fact that I literally just counted it And it is now for anyone to go and visit if you're up in Boston Okay, so what used to be you had to acquire that amount that kind of collection to then give to a city So people go visit is a thing that on the internet. Um, anyone can be a part of can excess can be part of supporting, right? the I think what's common place where that happens now is on patreon. I'm not doing a history of patreon because that would be weird Um, but I guess I'll just say this and then we can jump in from there.
Um, this episode is in Um service of announcing that we are launching a patreon. I guess as of this episode. That's right So technically all you little metaches out there But that's but I think the point being drawn out there is that um, I love the interactions that we have with our listeners I love the emails that we get track and forth. Um, it is all the memes.
Yeah, I love the memes, uh, and even Twits on the twitters. Yes people who reply to us who say things that they find helpful. I love all that stuff Um, but we want a community that is involved in helping shape what um classical stuff will be from here on out This isn't this isn't just some passive thing, but we want to both give something to our community and then also Have a shaping influence, right that people will be helping us as we grow. Last education is yeah, a I don't know if it's saying it's a needed thing makes it sound a little too.
It's a noble undertaking. I think it's fair Um, so I guess I can direct I can just say to people that you can go to patreon.com slash classical classical stuff patreon.com slash classical stuff You'll see all of the information on there about um, summing up to become a patron of the podcast. Should I go through all of the Yeah, I think that's the emphasis on that these are early days And this you also can help shape and guide the growth of of what we're doing as well Yeah, so again, this is totally voluntary All right, this is a compulsory thing if you want to be involved if you want to like if you want your name to resound through history But if you're like looking at the equipment, you know, this is all personal stuff like we three pay for the website We three bought our microphones and all of the gear and all that stuff and it costs a pretty penny So if you want to like I don't know maybe reward us for our work is one way to think about it The other way to think about it is push us forward This is the first episode where we have a camera up here's looking at you to you youtube And our ultimate goal here is to have several cameras and then being able for me to like switch switch around on them And that way give you a better viewing and listening experience Um, the more the more we get from the podcast the more we can put into the podcast the more time we can commit the more attention We can commit because we start we had a natural sort of a natural homeostasis of what we could do and if we want to keep going forward We need a little bit of help. Yes, exactly.
That's fair. We need a patron Yeah, I was gonna say afterwards to first to talk through some other changes. Um, Adrian discovered most of them right there right there Sorry, but it's fine. It's fine.
It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's all right.
Thunder The other thing just he said that he said that he sure The other thing to say is that our episodes are now up on youtube at the time that you're listening at least up through episode 113 That's right a little busy little busy all of us working in the background Yes, and these are these are things that have been worked on over the cronies. Thank you That makes me the crony. I like that. Um, so we've been working on during quarantine.
Thomas is being modest It's the stuff that he worked on. He's put all the episodes up as of now We just have paintings on most of our episodes in the future. We're gonna have video Yes, and you can see this report So if you're interested in that you can find us on youtube classical stuff You should know it's a great name. You should search for it And already said patreon is patreon.com slash classical stuff.
I'll go through what the different tiers are on there Agent shared a few of the reasons that this is helpful for us first off is again helping us in moving forward of equipment on the equipment side And then as we get into the tears, you'll see shaping up topics is also hopefully there Um, there are three different tiers as a part of the patreon the five dollar a month tier Will give you access to all previous episodes ad-free I guess that's another thing that we are talking about and exploring is adding advertising to the podcast So look for that in the future if you're interested in advertising send us an email the guys at classical stuff dot wait net Yep, nailed it the guys at class stuff that Give me a second. Um, so you get access to all previous episodes without ads you also get access to additional talks from age a gram and I These include aging grams excellent keynote presentations There is an annual conference through veritas and there are at least three or four years of audio that I was able to find I'm sure you all have more stuff than that But all that audio will be included on the patreon So if you want to hear us talk about dating advice from room you and juliette Or what's a good one your logical fallacy one is great, but we've also done a podcast episode on that But anyway, um, yeah, you can find all of that at the five dollar month level at $10 a month Uh, I am most proud of this tier because it's called the nightmare tier and I'm glad we can I just want that to live there forever. Yeah, me neither gram Um, you get all the five dollar month benefits in addition you will get access to additional conversations that we will have before and or after our So it's banter tier. This is the banter tier classical stuff at night.
Yeah As video you can see we are The first one there's banter before and after these episodes we always take breaks in between recording and you can hear all the stuff we Talk about uh, yeah Yeah, so if you if you enjoy the banter you're gonna love this tier In addition we have a monthly ask us anything. So anyway, my question was if it's still an AMA If it's a group of people so anyway weigh in weigh in the guys We have an email address. I don't know if we've yeah, I mean the kind of thing like mailbag, right? You'll have to have to be questions if you want to send us comments or whatever we can do reactions.
Yeah, I guess so Actually, yeah again. We say this already on here of um send us a youtube video reactions or whatever Whatever you want to say like at that tier send us whatever you want to send You are welcome to interact with us and then we'll have special episodes that are just for you Just interact with the mailbag and the things that you've sent us exactly so that is at the $10 month level At the $20 month level this again is more where we are looking for your input We're looking for you to help us um specifically in coming up with future topic ideas So the um we would at this level we would be asking you all to vote on future topics or to submit future topic ideas Um, so for you to help us what are what are things that you would like to hear the three of us describe And then in addition, um, I think AJ has talked most about this wanting there to be classical stuff from merch And so we would like help on um the future design future designs of um, we would post things and then again get um voting for you all To help us figure out kind of what that future looks like so help help guide the podcast. Yes the during this future and um Yeah, I know Graham is working a couple of ideas. Um, that I think at the $20 month level we'd be looking for input from people there Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, the idea being some Uh, basically going through great works going through great works of literature and putting together video primers So if you're a first-time teacher and they're like, you gotta teach paradise loss And you're like, oh gosh, I don't even know where to start or if you're just reading this book for book club or if you're only Joining me if you said I wish I had some help in sort of How do I even begin thinking about this kind of thing?
Uh, we want to put together a whole catalog of some of the great Some of the great works of us talking about them. So that's you know, that's a big that's a big thing to do Um, so this is why like yeah, this is patron ages. Yeah, so cool. It is.
Yeah, and so important and helpful for us So again, there's a side of it where um, yeah that money helps us in doing the work that we do here Also in helping shape where we go from here especially topics and merch and all that fun stuff So that's all patreon.com slash classical stuff. Uh, again, we're moving toward wrapping up this episode I just you all listening is a huge honor and I appreciate that um, but for some of you We've even got questions on twitter. Yeah, and it's yeah I'm actually not only just listening but questions just inquiring of our health during the crisis knowing that we're in Austin texas and texas has Been a hot spot and so that's been very touching just a that people listen and think about us here and And um, so yeah, so we are looking forward to jumping back into this. Absolutely all right boys any classical stuff we got wrong over the past 90 days six months Over I put to sleep with my episodes.
I guess that was wrong. Uh, they were good. They were good. They were good Um, classical stuff we got wrong.
I can't i'm sure there's something being off the air for so long. I think it's the most That is definitely something. Hey, we're back and we got big things going. So cool.
I have to be back This is has been classical stuff. You should know with graham aj and thomas. Thank you for listening and we will catch you next week Next week same classical time same classical chair. Yep.
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