129. Rebecca Hollander-Blumoff, Law Professor and Adventurous Baker

Show Notes: Rebecca Hollander-Blumoff shares her journey from college to law school. After deferring her law school for a year, she spent a year in Spain to gain language and cultural experience. She then went to law school in Cambridge and clerked for a federal judge in New York before going into practice. Rebecca was initially interested in becoming a federal prosecutor but realized she first had to go into practice.  She worked for a small boutique litigation firm that did about 60% white collar criminal defense and about 40% civil litigation. While she loved being a counselor to her clients, and a person who a client could call, day in, day out, she found the law firm's hierarchy unappealing. The Psychology of Negotiation, a PhD., and Teaching Rebecca decided to pursue a PhD in Social Psychology to study the psychology of negotiation. She talks about negotiation in law, and she began taking classes in NYU's master's program and eventually obtained a PhD in Social Psychology with a dissertation on procedural justice in negotiation. She taught in the lawyering program at NYU and was an adjunct at Seton Hall in New Jersey teaching negotiation. After obtaining her PhD, she went on the job market for academia; she got a position at Washington University in Saint Louis. Rebecca has been teaching at Washington University in Saint Louis since 2006. She teaches various core classes, including civil procedure, federal courts, law and psychology, negotiation, negotiation for executive education, and has also developed a course in women's leadership and negotiation. She has worked for groups like the Brookings Institution and the Rodel Institute. Women's Negotiation and Navigating Stereotypes Rebecca's approach to teaching women's negotiation is not about focusing on gender differences but rather on understanding the research that informs her approach. She believes that women need to be armed with knowledge about the effects of gender, culture, and race on negotiation. This knowledge can help them navigate through stereotypes and roadblocks that may arise in negotiations. In her classes, she also discusses the research that is relevant to everyone, not just women, and mentions the issue of different perceptions of men and women in and on negotiations, and how behavior of men and women is perceived differently. The discussion also touches on the misconception that some people are born good negotiators and others are bad at it. This is a misconception that can hinder effective negotiation. The best way to think about negotiation is as an experience that can be prepared for and analyzed from both structural and interpersonal perspectives. This involves considering possibilities, actions to take if negotiations don't work out, and the interpersonal elements present. Negotiation and Problem-solving Rebecca mentions that negotiation is often seen as adversarial, but it is actually more about strategically problem-solving to increase the size of the pie and generate low-cost but high-value outcomes for both parties. Examples of negotiations that are not adversarial include family law, business contracts, and reputational effects. Negotiations can have broader implications, as people may still be in each other's lives after the negotiation. The key piece that students often overlook is the relational aspect of negotiations. In negotiations, parties are not in front of a judge, and the outcome must be decent for both parties. For example, in a negotiation for a new salary or project, one person has all the power, but the decision by fiat can lead to less positive results over time, less employee retention, and less positive feelings about the project. In real-world situations, negotiations can have other elements and dimensions available. Lawyers should question their assumptions and think about the best end goal for their clients. They should also consider the potential negative consequences of their actions and the impact on their reputation and business relationships. Negotiations in Practice The conversation turns to the dynamic between attorneys and clients in family law negotiations. Research has shown that when lawyers experience fairness in negotiation, they are more likely to recommend the agreed-upon outcome to their clients, believing it forms the basis for a better long-term agreement. However, the client is not in the room, and the lawyer may manipulate the client's desire for fair process and present things differently to the client based on what they think might happen. This can lead to a gap between what the lawyer is experiencing and what the client is experiencing. Research by a professor at UC Davis has found that one of the most desirable forms of dispute resolution for regular people is negotiation by their lawyer while the client is present in the room. This could reduce the dissonance between the lawyer and the client, potentially leading to better negotiation outcomes. A Year in Madrid Rebecca recounts her experience in Madrid after college, where she lived with a family for most of the year, a difficult but interesting experience. She studied at the Complutense University, where she participated in a Hispanic studies program, which taught history, language, grammar, and art in Spanish. The program was an international one, and the students from around the world were taught in Spanish. Despite the initial loneliness and lack of familiarity, Rebecca found it fascinating and eventually moved into an apartment with friends. She found that Madrid was a large city, but not warm and fuzzy, and it was a great place to live. A Passionate and Adventurous Baker Rebecca is a passionate baker She enjoys sharing her creative side with her students, who are always happy when she bakes for them. In her home life, she has three boys and two nephews who live nearby, making the house full of baked good eaters. Baking provides a time to disconnect from the stress of professional life and connect with the world through the act of baking. One of her favorite projects was when she baked 12 cakes of Christmas based on the 12 days of Christmas.  She also used cooking as a project to open her children's horizons to different cultures and ideas, especially when her kids were younger. They would research a country and make a whole meal of that country's cuisine, usually with a baked dessert. One of her favorite baked goods is a Kringle, made from an Estonian recipe. Her oldest child also fell in love with the Mongolian beef patty, a dish made from a dough of flour and water wrapped around ground beef. Influential Harvard Professors and Courses Rebecca took Justice as a freshman and ironically found it to be one of her least favorite classes. However, she enjoyed her classes in the history and literature concentration.  She also took a phenomenal French literature class and enjoyed a class on modern poetry, which she likens to the study of law, as every word and construction has a reason or purpose. Timestamps: 06:11: Transition to Academia and Negotiation Research  10:12: Teaching Women's Negotiation and Gender Dynamics  18:08: Negotiation Skills for Law Students  26:12: Relational Aspects of Negotiation  31:08: Consulting and Baking Passion  41:23: Personal Reflections and Cultural Experiences  44:22: Influence of Harvard Classes and Professors  Links: Author Page for Rebecca E. Hollander-Blumoff :: SSRN Instagram: @rebeccahollanderblumoff X: https://x.com/rhollblum Blue Sky: @rhollblum.bsky.social.  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-hollander-blumoff-475636270/ Work: https://law.washu.edu/faculty-staff-directory/profile/rebecca-hollander-blumoff/ Book: https://www.amazon.ca/Research-Handbook-Psychology-Rebecca-Hollander-blumoff/dp/1800881916 Featured Non-profit: The featured non-profit of this episode of The 92 Report is recommended by Elaine Lum MacDonald who reports: "Hi, I'm Elaine Lum McDonald, class of 1992. The featured nonprofit of this episode of The 92 report is SV2. Silicon Valley Social Venture Fund. SV2  is a community committed to accelerating equity in the Bay Area through grant making to local nonprofits, impact investing in local and global entrepreneurs and immersive learning experiences. I am proud to have been a member of this organization since 2021 and I'm currently serving on the board. I love SV2 because it is truly innovative in two ways. First, it's equity based practices, including putting grantees and investees on the board and its trust based philanthropy practices. And secondly, because of its focus on creating impact across the capital spectrum, from donations to investments. You can learn more about their work at SV2.org and now here is Will Bachmann with this week's episode." To learn more about their work, visit: SV2.org.