We may all be full of fear and terror, but the generation 10 and 15 years younger than us might be less stressed as they get older because they might be making more informed decisions. More authentic decisions would you say? That was Dr Lindsey Wisener and she is the co-author of a book with Celine Castravia called 10 Steps to Finding Happy, which is due to be released on March 20th, which just happens to be, which we talk about in this interview, the United Nations International Day of Happiness. Who knew that they had an international day of happiness?
Now this was recorded well before coronavirus, was even a thing. It's amazing how things can turn on their head. So some of our comments you may look at through a different lens now that we're living with more uncertainty. To give you some context, Lindsey is a psychologist who specializes in teenagers with suicidal ideation.
We'll talk about that a bit more in here. Alongside that conversation though, is one about what makes us happy, and why we aren't necessarily as happy as we could be. Specifically we touch on how technology is interrupting our lives and stopping us from being present in the here and now. News notifications anyone.
How perhaps we really are more stressed these days. How every generation has their mess of garbage to deal with. How we're likely bringing more psychological baggage into our lives than previous generations. How expectations of happiness can lead to disappointment, and the importance of living and active over a past of life.
Lindsey's high energy and I hope this conversation can help raise your happy, distract you from a moment from a lot of the fear and uncertainty that is around us, and give you a few ideas about how you can cultivate happiness over this period. You can pre-order 10 steps to happy before 20th of March, but also remember, the 20th of March is United Nations International Day of Happiness. We need it this year, people. So spread that happiness around pretty please spread it.
Without further ado, let's jump into the conversation. Welcome to How to Thrive. I'm your host, Kate Snowwise. This is a podcast with people who are ready to step up and live a happier life.
It's for those of us who are dedicated to understanding ourselves and getting the best that we can out of this thing called life. It's a mix of psychology and modern spiritual thought, always with a focus on practical advice so that you can take it back and apply it to your own life. I don't believe we're here to merely survive. I truly believe we're here to thrive.
So let's get going. Lindsey, thank you for joining me on here to thrive today. Kate, thank you so much for having me on. We're going to talk about your book, which is coming out this month, 10 steps to finding happy, a guide to permanent satisfaction.
What made you decide it was time to write a book? So I have actually, I was a writer before I was a psychologist. I am still a writer. I actually find facts about me.
In 2014, cosmopolitan magazine ran their first ever fiction writer's contest and I won it. And they have not run one since. So I think I just broke the bank or something. I've written several fiction books, but this was my first nonfiction book.
And I was approached by a fellow writer that I actually met via Twitter and she and I started writing workshops together and helping each other with our edits and our manuscripts and just giving feedback. And then she had this book that was largely written and she wanted some feedback. And I went balls to the wall and was like, this is great, but would you like a co-author? That's awesome.
But can I write it with you? Literally, I mean, she had everything all lined up. So I was just like, yeah, I think at the time I was about to turn 40. And I was like, what would that be?
I mean, it would be a nice birthday present. But so they're all the same steps. I just added in the science behind the steps and the research, cos I'm kind of a research geek. And then we also, I recruited 24 expert writers in various fields to talk about what happiness meant to them and what made them happy.
Very cool. Your book was chosen by the United Nations as one of their books to celebrate the International Day of Happiness, right? It was. What is this, the Staming to You?
An International Day of Happiness? Because I know you reached out to me and we were both like, wow, who knew there was an International Day of Happiness? That is literally my go-to. That's like my dad joke, you know, because I just had no idea.
Although if you think about it, I do remember a few years ago, Pharrell saying that song Happy. Yes, was that 20th? Yes, that was it. That was it.
Yeah. That was part of the United Nations deal as well. Right. So I researched into it and because I might co-author Celen Castro, she was the one who reached out to the United Nations and did that whole thing.
To me, that's like saying what's reached out to God. I don't know how it works. You know, but she did that. But yeah, I researched it and the idea that the man who created it had is basically we need to be rating and evaluating our societies, countries, world views, in something other than numbers or statistics or gross domestic product.
Yeah, thank you. I was just going to say I wish I knew something about economy because I don't really understand what economics is. But you know, more than like numbers and also I'll evaluate the lifestyle of our citizens and the happiness and the stuff that matters to how we feel about our lives. Right.
And the mental health, well, I'm sort of forcing my mental health in there. I don't know if that was initially part of it, but I am doing my best to make it part of it now. I think that the mental health is a massive element when we're talking about happiness and why societies may be struggling on this front. I think that mental health is intimately tied with that.
What are you saying in your practice as a psychologist? Do you think we're in the midst of a happiness crisis? Well, about a year ago, almost exactly a year ago, I accidentally fell into a specialty of working with suicidal teenagers. So can we just stop there and go, wow, wow, I mean, that's some serious way impactful but intense work, I imagine.
It is quite intense. With these teenagers, what we call those gen Z, right? I mean, I think it's gen Z. I know with the American Psychological Association, they recently did the Astress and America survey, and they're saying they're the most stressed out generation to date.
I'm not surprised. And I know a lot of people are blaming social media and FOMO. By the way, apparently I went to college with a guy who invented the term FOMO. No, why that is so cold.
His name is Patrick Bienes and he has a podcast called I think it's called FOMO Sapiens, actually. But I literally googled it after I heard it and it was true. He is now responsible technically for all of our depressed. We're now going to label for the fact that they're missing out.
Yeah, I really should be nicer to him because he wrote a book or cover a back of our book, so it should be much nicer. I think that it's that. But it's also so interesting. My suicidality is very contagious, particularly among teens.
And we really want to blame it on social media. However, if you scientifically look back and compare numbers that I hate, I got that it's a 24-hour news coverage that came first. And that is actually sort of what it's not about the social media. It's about all of those things.
You know, 24-hour news coverage, constant being bombarded with information. We were at New Year's Eva. I was with some friends and also one of them looks down at her phone and she's like, oh, I ran and I was just like, I mean, it's had to put it away. Yeah, just interrupt that moment of joy, right?
With something. It was very bizarre. I was like, I don't want to be sad about it. I'm a little tipsy.
I'm also at New Year's Eve. Yeah, can we think about that when it's time to think about the news? Not in the middle of our social interaction, right? Right, but we don't have that luxury anymore, particularly me because I can't figure out how to do anything with my phone, like turn out notifications.
But so we don't have that luxury. So I believe that they're more stressed out. They're also the adult are more stressed out. Two family incomes are more necessary and pressure of college applications and getting into a college.
I feel for these kids. I really do. Would you say therefore we're talking about stress? Does it impact our happiness?
Does it eat away at our happiness in your opinion? I would make a funny face that you would like to see. I think that we both know the answer. I mean, absolutely.
How could it not? I mean, I guess if you if you can do something with that stress, not necessarily, then it doesn't have to. I'm a big fan of yoga. I'm a big fan of hot yoga.
I just figured out how to put a TV in front of my treadmill. And so now I'm a big fan of watching all those like bad shows that you know, like the Bachelor or whatever. I will work out while I'm doing that. And that's a great way to burn off that stress.
But it's still easy to wait. You're happy. You know, it's got to. Yeah, I hear you.
So you think we're less happy in society now than we used to be? I'm interested in your opinion, Lindsey. I think we are, but probably to a lesser degree. I think the difference probably isn't as huge as we think it is.
My teenagers will say to me, just being my patients will say to me quite often, you don't know what it's like these days. And then they'll tell me something that was true when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah.
People are still dicks and people are still not kind. Yes, exactly. Like we didn't have dick pics, but I assure you how we had phones we would have. Yeah, exactly.
And so, and also if you look back at it, like every generation of their own mess of garbage, you know, like there was Vietnam, there was always constant strife going on. And I think we want to idealize the past. Oh, also they're really worried about global warming. I have sex.
You know, but when I don't remember this, but my husband is a few years older than me, swears that they were doing like bomb drills when he was in elementary school. And again, Columbine was when I was in college. So my kids now, I have a nine and 11 year old and they are growing up with lockdown and lockout drills, you know, in case of an arm shooter, they literally have to describe discussions about what you do if you're in the bathroom. What do you do if you're here there?
I think every generation has their own stuff, but our children and teenagers are being exposed to more. And so it's more frightening. He was my husband is also a psychologist and a lawyer. And so he argues his point and wins a lot.
But he has definitely like sheltered our kids. And the other day, my kids and I were watching this movie 13 going on 30. I don't know if you've seen it. I've heard is that got some suicidal?
No, no, no. I'm talking about 30 reasons why. Yes. No, I would never watch that with my kids.
I would burn my children's eyes out before I watched it with them. You're talking about that one. That's like a rom-com check for exactly. Jennifer Garner and they do the thriller dance, you know, the Michael Jackson thriller dance.
And after I was like, you guys, I asked my kids, I said, my husband wasn't home. I was like, you guys want to see that dance? And so I showed him the thriller video, which we grew up with. Like, it was every time you went roller skating.
It was, there was like an intermission of 20 minutes where they played the thriller video. I don't know why, but my son, my 11 year old, like two minutes into the thriller video, like flipped out and left the room. Because it's got we-woves and rice and stuff, doesn't it? We were raised with it.
So I didn't think of it. And then, you know, of course, you had a nightmare. My husband, my son, ran him out. So you're traumatizing him with the thriller.
What about adults? Do you think we're less happy as adults? What's going on with us? I think we are all working a lot, a lot more than we had to.
I think the idea of a one family income does not really exist. I mean, most of the people I know, they're both people are working. And sometimes my husband and I, and also the couples I do therapy with, it's ships passing in the night. I also think that we have, now that we have this knowledge about, we have too much knowledge on our fingertips, and knowledge of parenting, and what to do right, what to do wrong, how our parents mess this up.
And so we're all carrying this extra psychological baggage. And we're going through the motions of what we think we should do without pausing to think about whether we should. And my adult time talking 40s, I don't know how old you are, kid. I am 37.
We can round me up to 40. I'm good with that. And so I don't know about you, but I never paused to think about whether I wanted to have children or wanted to get married. It just wasn't something- I mean, it wasn't- I never had numbers or like, it wasn't a goal, but I never thought about it.
And so I think there are a lot of people that are in situations that they don't want to be and they never had the freedom to choose. And now that we have this younger generation where some of them are choosing not to have children or not to get married, they're more open about their sexuality. They're, you know, she's into defined differently. They're genders.
You know, there aren't binary, isn't the only option out there. I think that we may all be full of fear and terror, but the generation 10, 15 years younger than us might be less stressed as they get older because they might be making more informed decisions. More authentic decisions, would you say? Yeah.
That's much better. Otherwise, I can't do it to myself. So I like the authentic. Yeah, well, decisions are more true for them because yeah, I know what you mean.
I went to, and anyone who's listened to this podcast long enough would know that I went to law school when I was 18 because I just thought that's what I should do. And God, I flaked out and ended up as a psychologist because that was so much more my happy place. But it wasn't like I thought there was a smogasbord of options to me. I was like, if you're good at English, then you should become a lawyer because that's societally approved.
Mine was writing. I was going to be a writer. So- I was the, I didn't see much of a path with writing, but interesting. Yeah.
Well, I mean, I was told that I shouldn't be a psych major because I would never do anything with it. So go figure. And here we are. So talking about those people and even perhaps I would go as far as say the moments in people's lives when they're not okay.
How do you think we deal with that as a society? Is it okay yet to say that we're not okay? Are we getting closer to that point? I am really angry because I don't feel like it is okay.
One of the things I'm hoping to do with the launch of the book is I got all these giant postcards made up and there are a lot of people who are going to do it. I'm going to make up and there are the cover of the book with the hashtag 10 steps and the stigma. The cover of the book is lovely. My marketing told me that would be a great tie in, but my real goal is to talk more about ending the stigma.
And I have this dream about spreading this around social media and hopefully you will help me. I don't know how this dream is going to come straight in. But it's my passion. I think one of the reasons my practice has really picked up speed in the last year is because there aren't a lot of people, a lot of therapists and mental professionals that are willing and able to work with people who admit suicidal ideations.
I've got other people out. Where's your like, I am here? Yeah, because I'm kind of laid back and I have a family member who has attempted suicide many times and is still here. And I think that in some roundabout way that prepared me to recognize real signs versus just thoughts and pause and ask questions and more often than not, the gut reaction of a therapist is to go to a hospital for an evaluation.
And if you go for a psych eval, you feel like a crazy person. And if you experience, we have some very good, I'm in New York and we have some very good hospitals, but very good hospitals are teaching hospitals and teaching hospitals means that the best of the best of people that have been setting out of a textbook are the first line, second line, third line, and eventually after six hours, you get some experience. Once went to an emergency room with my son for a rule of appendicitis, and at the end they were going through the mental health, you know, like the many mental health exam. And they asked him if he ever had thoughts about hurting someone and he said yes, and I was really trying to keep my mouth shut and be mom and not psychologist.
And then when I realized that they were about to keep him for a psych assessment for homicidality, I was like, oh, hang on, are we kidding? Like, what small child has to talk about hurting someone? Also, I was like, Hunter, can you tell us a little more about that? You know, which is a basic, like, what a one question.
And he proceeded to say that like sometimes at lunch, the boys wrestled, you know. You're like, oh, my Lord. This woman meant well, but she, it's, I think, clumsy. I'm hearing it was clumsy in its execution.
Exactly. It requires a lot of nuance to identify the side alley. Most people don't actually want to kill themselves. They just want to be heard and be fantasized.
Yeah, or fantasize about it. It's very rare that if you text them to someone for a psych about they are going to actually hospitalize them and more often than not. And I've had like psychiatrists that done this to my patients where I see the patient and they're like, yeah, I'm doing okay. I'm being the psychiatrist tomorrow.
They'll admit to thoughts. But that doesn't mean they have a plan and that doesn't mean they have an intent. And when I asked the question, I asked it thoroughly. The next day she ends up in the emergency room and sends me a selfie from like the bathroom because they were taking her phone away.
She's like, I don't know what's going on with somehow. I'm here. And she's not feeling worse than she had when she went in. I mean, that's just going to shame people out of talking about it.
And unfortunately, in September of this year, there was a 15 year old boy in my town committed suicide. And the way it was treated or referred to was a tragic accident. And I raised bloody hell and got nowhere because we need to call speed a speed. It's not about what this boy's family is comfortable with.
It's really about making it okay for other kids to come forth and talk about these feelings when they have them rather than the shame of exactly. Yeah. So as far as you'd say, we're still not doing a good job of making it okay for people to talk about the stuff that's tough. Yeah.
I mean, overall, definitely not. And of course, some minority populations have it worse. African American, both men and women, men, definitely men are less likely to seek treatment than women. But I think they're actually more likely to seek coaching, which is kind of just bull's therapy.
I get that the people come to me and I'm like, I think you want a therapist. I don't specialize in what you need, right? Which is healing and understanding. I'm like, no, I'm a coach.
Let me clarify the difference between the two. Right. Well, I'm a therapist, but I also do, I want to find out where the problem is and then I am going to help you take action to change, which I think is more the coaching job. I was trained like analytically, fried couches three times a week therapy, like slate.
And then I started practicing and I was like, no, that's not me. Oh, I will kick people in the butt if needed. We know I was looking through the book in preparation for our conversation. I noticed there was a line in the introduction.
It's something along the line of, we only appreciate what we work for. Do you feel like happiness is no different? Do we appreciate happiness more if we've put in the work to get it? I think so.
I also think today, most of the non-third world countries, we have an ease of life that allows for us to expect to be happy. And it's sort of like in countries where people are starting, very few people are interacting. There's a luxury of an expectation. It's like when my children are complaining to me that they're bored.
You know, well, you're a kid. Like, boredom's okay. It'll lead to creativity. Oh, that's so funny.
I say the same thing to my children, drive them to that shit crazy because I'm like, that's a good thing. I'm so glad you're bored. I mean, wouldn't you hate that if your mother said that to you? I would hate that.
And yet I say it to my children all the time. Oh, no, I say that. And we also recently moved and I made a large closet into an art room. And then I alphabetized everything, like all of our art supplies.
And so now if you tell me your board, go to the art room. So that is so good. It's like, go to the art room. Do whatever you want.
Exactly. Go to the art room. I'll take pipe cleaners or under P. Sorry, it's a funny conversation because my little five-year-old today was like, mom, I want to make a craft.
And I was like, craft stuff awakens. I need not room. I was like, we can't do that before school. So would you say then with just this line of thinking that happiness expectation, like it's a given I deserve to be happy?
Do you think it leads to possibly more disappointment? Yeah. What is the meaning of life question? I think that first of all, it's a luxury that we get to ask that because I don't think the caveman were pondering their philosophical mortality.
I feel like now that we're not struggling as much and certainly at a certain age and socioeconomic class and culture and parts of the world, now we're, we're noticing our unhappiness or our failure to be happy. And to be clear, I am not talking about depression. You know, like, I'm not talking about mental illness or like a severe depression or, you know, mild depression. I'm simply talking about people that are kind of bummed and expecting something more but don't do anything to get that something more to change.
Yeah. The difference between the mental illness model is, do we still call it mental illness? Is that still how it's actually? Mental health because it's a positive, but also mental illness sounds like crazy pants, you know.
Yeah. And this book is not to overcome depression. And in fact, in retrospect, I think the book should have been called Ted's Steps to Finding Happy Ear because I think that's a much more attainable goal. And I think that particularly as adults, we forget things that made us happiest children or that scientifically speaking, your neuro transmitters and synapses start firing when you try something new.
And as adults, we don't try new things all that much. Right. Yep. We just get stuck in our ruts.
Exactly. So, we're going on from that for those people who do kind of feel just as we're talking about kind of like me and like happiness is kind of eluding them. They might feel a little lost in life. What piece of advice would you have for those people?
Buy my book. It's a good piece of advice. I know. Okay.
I will say, try new things. Try new things. Yeah. Also, try to find your people.
I think that social media gets a bad rap for me. I love Twitter. I love, I thought I hate Instagram. I was bullied into opening an Instagram account.
But I love it so much because I can meet people all over the world. We connected via Instagram, Lindsey. Yeah. Exactly.
And I can find people that I think are going to be my people. And sometimes they are. And sometimes they're not. And you're a Pinterest mom.
God bless you. But you're not my people because I cannot put one more password stuffed into my head. So I cannot open a Pinterest account. I just refuse.
Someone out there is your people. And if you're kind of unhappy or in a what, maybe you're in a small town or you've known the same people your whole life or you're at a job that's not fulfilling you or a relationship that's not fulfilling you will find something that makes you a little happier and then reevaluate job relationship. It's so funny. I gave that exact piece of advice to my Facebook group this morning.
Lindsey, like we are channeling the same news. Yeah. Just she said she was un she noticed a trend that her and her husband would move frequently and that it didn't take long before they went happy in their new place. And that was exactly what I said.
I was like, look for the things that make you happy on the inside first. Don't go changing your environment until you've tried the other things. Also, but like really who the hell wants to move in a lot. Oh my gosh.
It's stressful. Like there's definitely a lot. My husband, my husband, my husband, my husband, it's hard to be a few weeks ago. He's like, I sort of think that we have some real problems and we should go back to therapy.
It was like, okay, cool. But can we unpack first because I have a feeling it's not really, you know, like if we just get through that pile of crap sitting in the corner, we might feel a little bit. I don't know what I even bother asking what real issues because I knew it was just, we know what the top stressors are, you know, and also regarding your Facebook group. I have this theory that most of the time when people get divorced and married to the same asshole in a different body.
Right. So I kind of think that she keeps moving, but talking about that, you mentioned it a little bit earlier that you're okay to give someone a little bit of a boot up the butt if you need it. That's what I do in coaching. But you talked about in the book and active life versus a passive life.
I feel like we need to dive in more here. What do you see as the difference between an active life versus a passive life? I think they all have dreams and aspirations, but I don't know how many of us are actively doing something to get there in the past year. I started a podcast totally impulsively.
I have a book coming out and I'm starting to do webinars and I'm working with this new group of people. And these are all things that are, it sounds so wrong to say that working with suicidal patients makes me happy, but these are all things that I'm doing to get me to a point of fulfillment, let's say. It makes total sense that you are, like you said, you're passionate about reducing the stigma and also doing the work to help those people who are other people are perhaps labeling. It makes total sense.
And I'm not just like, also the activist of passive, but listen, I could be sitting around just waiting for this book to come out. And instead, like I am constantly doing something. Right. And I don't know how to promote a book.
I mean, thankfully we have some marketing, but realistically, I'm not sitting back and letting marketing do it. I'm busting my butt. You're talking the same person who alphabetized not only the art room, but also we have a book book that I alphabetized and then hit all of my husband's books that I deemed. Is this why he wants to go to therapy because his books aren't on the shelf, let's see.
Some of it in the shelf, like the open shelves are all my books. And then the closed shelf, I got like Dean Coon's and like the stuff that I'm like, you don't need that stuff. But then recently someone came over and pointed out that I had the Twilight series out in the open so that my role shouldn't apply. But you know, I take active steps every day to get any closer to the things you want in life.
I know yours is almost not an option at this point because there's always another step to take. I was going to say, is it less that failure is an option more than there's always another action? So it's, yeah, it's always another action. Right.
I mean, my husband described me as the Queen and Second Chances. There's always another chance out there and other opportunity. You know, you never know what's going to stick. And so you keep going.
And you think that's one of the things that makes you happier is that kind of just keep rolling with it and look for the next action step. Don't sit back and be passive in your life. 100%. Missing things up a bit and getting to the, getting to the, taking a little bit about how you're not vanilla.
I want to know some more about you personally, Lindsay. These are my intermission questions. Okay. Is there an intermission?
Yeah. Well, it's just, we're not, we're going off topic and now we're diving into you. That's the intermission. Didn't I tell you I hate off topic?
You're going to get blindsided. All right. Go for it. Morning person or night person Lindsay?
My children have started to bring me coffee in the morning. So I guess that means I'm a morning person. But I get to have whiskey at night. So I like my too.
I like that. Those two good answers. What's on your bedside table at the moment? Can you remember?
That's my table. There is a book Calypso by David Sedaris and probably an empty, oh, an empty glass from my favorite South Sir that my husband will be annoyed that I forgot to put away. And 6000 mismatch rubber bands and clips. My daughter deposits on my bedside throughout the course of the day.
I thought it was a rainbow loom or something. No, how was your daughter? No, that was like a few summers ago. That's in the art room under R.
I see. No, I mean, like different hair clips, you know, I always have to do that match, but she always loses one of them. So I get you know, do you have a favorite self care activity? I'm going to say this is going to sound so stupid.
But I think currently my self care is podcasting. It is telling my story. It is breaking the silence from my childhood and meeting people that are interesting and that I can learn from. I spend a lot of time lately podcasting both for my show and others and it is fantastic.
So you were saying that our conversation right now Lindsay is a form of self care. I'll take that. Yeah, I really am. I mean, it's, you know, normally I get very upset if I can't go on the treadmill for like an hour and a half and watch.
It's not like a crazy. I'm still a chubby woman. It's not about weight loss. It's about I love to binge watch Netflix shows and my reward is treadmill in exchange for Netflix.
It's you know, my reward for trademark is listening to audiobooks. So I feel you got to find the reward. Yeah, I mean, for a while I was listening to podcasts at the gym, but then treadmill at home with the TV. Exactly.
There you go. And I'll stay on longer to watch the end of another episode. But sometimes it sets me if I don't have a chance to do that, but today I won't be upset because this is my alternative self care and I enjoy it. I was meaning to ask you earlier, what is the name of your podcast in case people want to go and listen?
It is called neurotic nourishment. I mean, it's a podcast for smart swearing moms, but my daughter helps out with the she's not shy. So she helps out with all of the extra stuff and it's cute and she knows mommy swears and that she's not allowed. That is awesome.
How old is your daughter? She is turning nine shortly and then my son just turned 11. My children also know that Roland Alhaus that I'm allowed to. They're not.
A book that is touched here at some important point in your life is the one Lindsay that you picked up and you're like, got the aha you needed or it hit you right at the right moment. I love anything by Jodi McCall, but it's also it's also emotional. I also. Warren Oliver is she's mostly a YA author, but she.
What is YA stand for? Oh, sorry. Young adult. Yeah, I thought I thought I knew it was going to be something like that, but I only read self help books.
So, so you can continue to educate us now. Lauren Oliver writes YA books that are just young adults that are fantastic and tell. Oh, there's one. It's called replica and then the counter part to it is the one that I'm blanking on, but it's basically the same story told from two different characters points of view.
Oh, interesting. What's the life? Listen, that took you a good while to learn Lindsay. I can speak.
I have to hide behind the story as other people like to tell it. Very good. What's one thing in your day? You can't do without?
Is it whiskey or coffee? Oh God, they're both so good. I really am really into diet, Dr. Pepper.
The thing with the coffee is it's just it's my kids bringing it. That's the loving bit. Yeah. Like they've taught themselves.
Of course that means I must be a beast because they like they bring me coffee in bed. It's so gorgeous. I need to train mine to do the same. You should.
And they know how many is one does I like in it. So that's so good. How would you describe the soul Lindsay? Do you believe in the soul?
And if so, how would you describe it? I believe in even like soul. Yeah. The human soul.
I believe we have a soul. We believe in different things about the afterlife. And my answer is always we used to in our old house. There's a hole in the screen door and sometimes like a little small net would get in and my husband would.
Humanitarian he is would kill it, you know, like smash it onto the wall or a piece of paper, whatever, and it leaves behind a mark. So sorry to the owners of our old house because there's a bad field wall. Humans can't be the only thing in the world that doesn't leave a mark, but don't leave a mark. You know, there's not to be something else than the corporate body because otherwise it just doesn't make sense.
Why would we be the one exception to the rules? So there's got to be a soul or like a, a third part in addition to the corporate part. Oh, I like it. What's just fulfillment mean to you, Lindsay?
I mean, I guess it would be completing everything on my things to do less, but that's never occurs and it's not meant to occur. I feel pretty fulfilled these days. I mean, I wish I were a better mom and a better wife, but I think that goes along with being a mom and a wife, you know, I think that fulfillment for me right now is finding things that make me happy. And, you know, and also trying to be the best me for my kids and for my husband and for my patients and suddenly fulfillment sounds a lot like exhaustion.
I like that though, trying to be the best of you so that you can share so much of you with everyone else. I was Oprah in the weekend and she said, yes, I'm full of. I saw her at the St Paul Center. It was amazing.
We weren't just sitting here having coffee, although it felt like that with us, 17,000 other people. But what was really funny about it though, is she was saying how she used to be worried that people would think, and this is a little bit of an aside from what you were saying, but that she was full of herself. But she realized as she needed her cup to overflow, she needed to have so much if she was going to be able to give everything she wanted to give to the world. That is definitely how I feel.
I think I do better with more on my plate. So, yes, I like that a lot. So your book, the book covers the 10 particular steps that everyone could take to find a happier life. Is there one of them that you can highlight for us just now and give us a little bit of a snippet about it?
I've actually spoken a bit about a few of them. One is trying new things. Also, you know, finding your happy people or your happy place, which mine is obviously my booknock. We've also kind of taught you something.
I just walked into the room and handed me a note that said you're a great mom. That's what heard before. I'm talking about the coffee. I love your daughter.
You're very smart and I love you. She's also very skillful at working with people, Angal. She heard me talking about wanting to be a better mom. She has my happy people.
I have to tell you. She sings and listening to her sing is fantastic. Very cute. So, find your happy people.
Find your happy place. Oh, get rid of what you don't need. I'm much more talking people than things because apparently I now know since I moved, neither my husband nor I throw anything out. So, get rid of the people you no longer need.
Find your happy people and get rid of the people you no longer need. Right. I mean, one of our experts does talk about decluttering, possibly two of them, but you know, but that's fantabulous for them. But I think it's more important to get rid of the people that aren't serving you well.
And I would also say the ideas that aren't serving you well or the beliefs. Yeah. I hear you. Lindsay, if you would leave the listeners of Hata Thrive with One Thought, what would it be?
Oh, so I would say live with less fear. I was very shy as a kid and I, my outlet was books. I literally like parallel played up to like 56 grade, which means basically like parallel plays when young kids are playing side by side but not into the world. I was like, I thought my first boyfriend in fifth or sixth grade, which oddly coincided with me growing boobs, but I would just sit there at lunch and play and read with this other girl who would read in silence as well.
And I wasn't, I think I was, I wasn't shy because I didn't like people. I was shy because I was afraid of what people would think or feel or do. And I, as I've gotten older, I have a friend who told me I would love my 40s and somehow she's right. I've grown more comfortable in my own skin, even though it's sad, more and more and more and more.
I live with less fear because we're all afraid of something, whether it's afraid to try something new, afraid to change or afraid of what people think of you, whatever that is, life with less fear is bound to lead to more happiness. Dr. Lindsey Wisenas-Book 10 Steps to Happy is going to be released on the 20th of March this year. If you enjoyed her upbeat vibe, you can also listen to her podcast, which is called Nurotic Nourishment.
Finally, if you want to track down Lindsey and learn more about her work, therapy, etc., you can follow her at Psych Shrinkumarm and she practices out of Hewlett, New York. We're living at a unique time right now. By the time you're listening to this, I really hope that Coronavirus is well and truly out of our sphere. But right now, as I'm recording this, we're in the thick of it.
I will release a podcast talking a little bit more about how we can take care of ourselves through this time. But in the meantime, there is a whole back catalogue of here to thrive episodes that I hope can inspire you and nourish your soul and heart and spirit. Over this trying period, as I've always said, our mind diet matters. So please use the resources you have to fill your mind with positive material rather than just focus on all of the fear and uncertainty that is going on around us right now.
If Hederthrive has been useful for you, I would appreciate if you could leave a review. It really does matter to the show. And I'll be back, people. In the meantime, come and find me in the Hederthrive community, which is on Facebook.
Or you can find me at Kate Snowy's, Kate Dot Snowy's actually over on Instagram. As I come and find me there. Until next time, beautiful people, keep thriving. You can thrive through this too.
Keep thriving.