138: The Stranger

Like a bridge over trouble waters How will lay me down? I'm trying to set the moon voice. It's wonderful. It's not at the mover mood though.

Just to be clear What bridge over trouble waters sound a car phone call does that not bring the bridges over the waters, Maggie? Not in the trouble. It's not like a right being buffeted uniting all of America. All right, we are already recording Oh, man, it's really I'm going first right once introduce Sure over my name is Thomas Maggie and welcome to classical stuff You should know and an uncharacteristic entry into the episode.

I'm joined as always by mr. Graham Donaldson Yep, it's beautiful bear tone you got here earlier and mr. AJ Hanberg. That's me and I am so thrown off right now I'm just I guess we just we keep rolling with this.

I like it age. I believe today is your episode I think we're in for another another pick me up episode You're really upbeat episode, so you want to take away talking about mr. Albeer Camus? I do I am talking about Albeer Camus or Albert Camus Albert Camus has us texts and say and his book the stranger or in French Let's all J.

Mmm, right? That's the correct pronunciation, right? Yeah, it's certainly well in Texas There's a fair sex is that is true, and I'm sure they all speak French. Anyway, it's yeah It's by it's a it's a the stranger by Albert Camus I read this in college and loved it and read it again a couple years ago and still loved it and I read it again today because I need An episode and I still love it.

It's still great, and I realized well I so this is gonna be a two-parter and don't worry We're gonna get through the whole book in just this part because I realized at the end of the stranger that I don't fully understand Albert Camus philosophy, and so I looked it up and it pointed me towards an essay the myth of Sisyphus and I began reading it and quickly Realized that I couldn't finish it in the two hours I had left before we podcasted and in any case I think it both will stand on their own as episodes And so I'm gonna kind of think of this week's as sort of setting the stage with the stranger I'll give it to you. We can kind of talk about it. We even have a fun reading thing planned for later Oh, we all read together. That's fun, and then I told you it was fun It's gonna be good and then next week we'll sort of pull apart mr.

Camus philosophy and talk about absurdity which is kind of where we are headed and that'll be a real cheery episode because the big question is Should we all commit suicide? Yeah, great. I kid you not that's what the myth of Sisyphus is about, right? Sounds great Yeah, so look forward to some real up episodes with me, right?

And Yeah, I'm doing great funny thing is I try like I read this because I didn't I started reading fatal last night by Plato And that is Plato having discussions before he dies and part of what he talks about is any philosophical man should be ready to die And should not only be ready for it, but welcome it and seek death That's not good. And I was like wow This is a real bummer and then I picked up the stranger today, and it's a whole whoop. I just I'm gonna hold I'm on a whole Literature funk right now anyway, I'll bring him a random little Nobel Prize for literature in 57 and this was written in I think 48. Okay, this is when this book kind of 46 Okay, this is when that book kind of dropped and let's just jump right in I have some personal comments after we're done, but I'll get there so Yeah, so we're just gonna I'm gonna kind of give you the novel and then we're gonna read a section and we can sort of pull that section to pieces together and And then we'll have personal comments and you guys can help try to fix me which I'm real excited for wonderful I mean you guys know me.

I'm not I'm not well put together. Okay, that's a person Alright, so this is the story of a guy named. I know I'm mispronounced his name. Merso great.

It's m-e-r-s-a-l-u Bold you're guilty merselt. All right, sir Merselt it begins with him going to a town a little ways outside of where he lives to attend his mother's burial And the book is particularly famous for its first few lines that kind of captures the ethos and the philosophy of our main character Okay, mom and died today or yesterday, maybe I don't know and that's kind of it, right? It's he's like I don't really know when my mom died I got the telegram yesterday and the funerals tomorrow, but that doesn't mean anything it could have been yesterday She could have died earlier than that. I have no way of knowing it so he gets himself together.

I'm all I mean he gets on the bus and it's not it's definitely not a story of his grief as he heads to take care of his mom He's like oh, I must have been tired because I slept and I find myself waking up having slept on this soldier And he asked me if I was traveling long and I said yes So I wouldn't have to say anything more then he goes to the funeral home and I guess this scene becomes important later He goes with the little attendant guy to see his mother and the casket isn't screwed down yet And the guy's like you want to see your mom and he says no I was why I don't know it's fair enough And then the main character offers him a cigarette and so they smoke in the room with his mom there And the guy offers him some coffee and result takes the coffee and he drinks the coffee And then they have the overnight vigil and a whole bunch of old folks come in and they all sort of sit on the opposite side of the room It opposite side of the room and look at him and he feels like he's being judged by them And then he's like man They're really old then he notices one lady crying and she kind of gets on his nerves He cries too much and then he's like what is that weird noise? He's that and it turns out the old people sort of sucking on their cheeks because they don't have any teeth and that begins to Annoy him and then the lights annoy him and then he just he's not comfortable and that happens kind of all night at the very end Every kind of goes home. We're a jerk. We're gonna have honestly, right?

He's a jerk. Yeah, look up because the old people are coming pan their specs and he's annoyed Yes, seriously. It doesn't annoy you when people are sucking on their faces, but he went there all right Isn't he in there? He's not going there's funerals.

Yeah, but they're going his parents because they love her. Yeah, and he's just annoyed with them Yep, cuz they're doing something annoying. Yeah, they're doing something annoying and then he goes fan Hey, I think this is where we'll have a good conversation at the end Alright So then is the funeral and he they have to walk like 45 minutes to get there and it's just stiflingly hot And he's in a he's in funeral clothes And he just can't escape the heat then one of the nurses is like yeah But if you take off all your really nice clothes, you're gonna get a chill in the church because you sweat too much So you know there's no way out you're kind of darned if you don't if you don't and then there's this guy that clearly was attached to his mom They were to get inseparable and they used to call her his fiance and they he's he can't really keep up because he's kind of old He's got a limp and he falls behind and so he cuts across the country to catch him and he catches him for a minute Then he falls behind again and then cuts across the country and by the end He's like crying and all the tears are like running down his wrinkles and stuff and the main character is like He looks hot and then he's like it was really hot and at one point that guy passed out for the old fella Right, and but it's only he said he said that I'm passing and he's like mostly it was hot and then I got back on the bus I went home and I hate this guy. Yeah, right.

I feel like the right takeaway. What why he's a jerk He's just you know some care about these people he's he doesn't care about others He's just like describing his annoyances with like the climate poor wasn't it doesn't care about it impacts his poor old man That's right. Yeah, he was close to his mother right with the milk of human kindness and he's filled with the bitterest gall of Final mid-century French philosophy. Yeah.

Yeah, you know life is how to get used to it Right so after that after that little episode with his mom and the funeral he goes home and he goes he decides with his extra Sunday Right because the funeral was kind of on a Friday and he's kind of tired on Saturday But with his Sunday, he's like, you know what? I think I will go to the beach that seems awfully nice So he goes to the beach and he sees there this typist that used to work at his job Her name is Marie and he's like I kind of had a thing for it at the time I think she had one for me and so they kind of hang out and they start to flirt and they're kind of like You know things are kind of forward He's kind of excited and he's like you want to go to the movies and she's like sure there's a new they mention a film a filmmaker And I guess he's a comedic filmmaker and he's like sounds fine to me and she's like at some point She's like how's your weekend is like oh my mom died and she's like when he goes yesterday She's like he's like she looked shocked But I don't know why and then they go to the movies and then they kind of go home and they spend some time together Wink wink nudge nudge and then after that They're kind of together and it sort of develops what his life looks like and his life is generally he goes to work He's a hard worker. He doesn't shirk his responsibilities. Really the whole dead mom not caring wasn't a red flag for poor All-Marie honestly, no, she likes them.

All right great. He seems to be straight forward Okay, and we are sort of introduced to his friends and neighbors One of his neighbors is a fellow named Salomono who has this dog and Salomono is old and the dog is also very old They kind of match and they end up you know how dogs kind of look like their owners This is the epitome of that Salomono's dog has a skin disease that makes all his hair fall out and his skin get covered with scabs It's maybe look like lyser. Oh, you're both very you're very affable. I'm not blonde enough though It'd be like my golden retriever, right?

But you're both just like overflowing with joy. That's very kind of you I'm uncomfortable So I'm gonna stop talking now talk and the man is also old and doesn't have a whole lot of hair and has scabs on his skin And the worst thing about these two is that they hate each other the man of the dog Oh the he will take the dog out to go to the bathroom and the dog tugs the man along and the man's also can't keep up And so he swears the dog and then beats it and then the dog cowers behind him for a while and then forgets that he was recently beaten and then begins to pull the man again and the man pulls the dog back beats it and Swears at it and then it cowers and it's just sort of this like weird yo-yo effect all the way down the street And he'll he'll come back later, but that's that's one of his neighbors and everyone feels kind of sad for the dog It's the main character. He's like, you know, that's just nothing that happens And we also mean the guy named Raymond Sintez and Raymond Sintez is another neighbor that kind of has a sour reputation for Everyone says I guess he lives off women, but I think it's actually the other way around he sort of provides for them So he has one that's sort of a live-in mistress girl that he's kind of falling out with and he meets our main character And he says look man, let's hang out and be pals and be friends And then what we're gonna do is you are going to write a letter for me because I'm bad at writing letters now This girl I had living with me I paid all her expenses just enough so she paid the bills and have a little bit of live-in money But she always said she'd never make ends meet and then I find all kinds of extra stuff She's got like necklaces and some other things that she's pawned So clearly she's got some other guy on the side and the evidence is real thin So he's like so I beat her up real go and then kicked her out And what I want you to do is write a letter that gets her to come back so that I can spend some time with her Wink wink nudge and then spin in her face and then I'll send her out the door and I mean characters like I don't really want to make Raymond mad, so I said okay, and I'm pretty good at writing so I thought I'd give a shot so he writes the letter and Raymond sends it off and It works the woman comes back and I guess the man spits in her face Raymond sits in her face And then she slaps him and so he starts he starts beating her up real good. This is one of the Nobel Prize I said he won the Nobel Prize I didn't say this book particularly, but from what I know it's one more famous of his works Yeah, and so the cops come and the cops max Raymond around a little bit and Marie is also there They're sort of watching the whole scene unfold in the apartment next to theirs and our main character sort of watches and smokes It doesn't really say much and Marie seems really disgusted and when they are about to have lunch afterwards I'm result eats all the food and he's like, I don't know Marie wasn't hungry.

I didn't really know why And after that there's still friends and Raymond and Raymond are main guys like oh, you know, he spends time together go to the movies hang out It's fine there were friends after that and Raymond feels good cuz he feels like the girl got what was coming to her for cheating on him and then they're okay Except that this woman's brother has a bunch of friends They call them the Arabs right these Arab because she was Moorish so they kind of hang around and he's like I think her brothers after me I think so he's like hanging out and he tells him hey You should let me know if those guys are hanging around because I think one of them's got it out for me And Mersault is eventually questioned by the police to so so is it so you guys just told me to go for it I said go for it grand as a man of culture. I'm sure and I'm a Texan Also, no so Sure, anyway, so he's questioned by the police and he backs up the guy's story that she was cheating on him And then really check it out. So the guy gets off and you like this book. I love this book Why do you like this book?

You will see and then Mary a minute. It's coming up. Okay. Okay.

Okay After that he gets a marriage proposal from his girl from Marie. Yeah girl. You gotta get out. Seriously.

Why is she okay with this? And Marie proposes to him Marie poses to him Marie Marie. Okay, let's see child That evening Marie came out to see me and all of the all of the sentences are written very much in a who some also rises Hemingway, right? They're short choppy sentences very straightforward.

There's not a lot of embellishment or or evaluation of what is being said The other doesn't tell you if things are tragic. I felt bad. I cried went to bed. Yes Yeah, very much that so if you're wondering about the style you're in here That evening Marie came by to see me and asked me if I wanted to marry her I said it didn't make any difference to me and then we could if she wanted to then she wanted to if I loved her I answered the same way I had the last time that it didn't mean anything But that I probably didn't love her so I married me then she said I explained to her that it didn't really matter And that if she wanted to we could get married besides she was the one doing the asking and all I was saying was yes Then she pointed out that marriage was a serious thing I said no she stopped talking for a minute and looked at me without saying anything then she spoke She just wanted to know if I would have accepted the same proposal from another woman with whom I was involved in the same way I said sure then she said she wanted if she left me and there was no way I could know about that after another moment silence She mumbled that I was peculiar but that was probably why she loved me but that one day I might hate her for the same reason I didn't say anything because I didn't have anything to add so she took my arm with a smile and said she wanted to marry me I said we could do it whenever she wanted then I told her about my boss's proposition and she said she'd love to see Paris He the boss wants to send it to Paris to start a new office.

I Told her that I lived there once and she asked me what it was like I said It's dirty lots of pigeons and dark courtyards everybody's pale and that's kind of wedge Lord so edgy I mean he's just being straightforward. He's not playing the game He's not gonna dress up a city if he feels that it's dirty and there are a lot of pigeons and there are a lot of pigeons Paris is beautiful and there's a lot of dirt Paris is never been can both be true This is I think both are true of the city of light But you see kind of how he approaches everything just very straightforward and he doesn't embellish and he's like I probably don't love you. I don't know that matters. We can get married if you want to That's straight for the right word for that one thing is the cold.

Yeah, I need a more negative word I get gilded. Yes, but he's I mean he's being Accommodating she wants to get married. He's like sure whatever you want from the person you're married I don't know right so they both get invited to a day at one of Raymond Raymond the punchy punchy So a day one of his friends Beach bungalows and they all decide to go and on the way out They see the group of Arabs still kind of hanging around Hanging around the place and they're like let's just try to lose on the bus they jump on the bus and for the first part of the whole day It's very pleasant right the waters nice They swim something a really early lunch and everyone's pretty happy and then they all go out for the afternoon The boys go out on a walk because the ladies are taking a nap and they see that the Arabs have somehow followed them And I refer to them that way because that's how they refer to in the book so they figure this out and then they have kind of a meeting and Mess Raymond says I'll take my guy the brother if the other one gets involved You take that guy and he's he's got a gun and they don't really want to involve that if possible He was a gun I think Raymond does they've gone on their side Yeah, they've got a gun on their side But they're not on using it and so the Arabs come up and there's a little bit of dust up There's a fight and one of the guys knocks out one of the Arab fellas and then So Raymond gets his guy and then the other guy gets knocked out too So they kind of win the fist fight right but at the very end of it one of the Arab guys pulls out a blade and slashes up Raymond's arm and his mouth oh and so he's all messed up and so they go to see one of Masson's doctor friends And they get him patched up and then they all come back and it's kind of like this ruined the feel of the day Right these our main character's got a headache It's kind of hot everybody's like there's a lot of tension because somebody got a knife fight and got all sliced up And I just gotta get out of here. I can't handle this anymore So him and so we leave this friend well him and Raymond decided to go another walk on the beach because Raymond isn't happy He's not having a good time.

He just has to like go get some tension out and so he's like I'll walk with you You know you're gonna take a walk was walk on the beach and they walk on the beach and they find the two Arab guys down there Near a little spring and they're just kind of sitting there one of the guys is playing a flute just three notes who he who who he who like that? And Raymond has a gun and he's like should I shoot him? He can't shoot him unless he pulls the knife on you if he pulls the knife on you then you can shoot That's what Rousseau says and he's like fine you hold the gun for me So I'm doing anything stupid passes in the gun they kind of look at each other for a while Nothing happens and I decided to go back to the bungalow But everybody's kind of still tense our main character doesn't really want to go in and face the ladies and the worries and all that stuff So he turns around decides like it's either deal with everybody inside where everyone is tense or deal with the heat out here And it's really hot So I'll just deal with the heat so he decides to walk back He doesn't know why he just wants to walk and he feels like the Sun being on the back of his head So he fails compelled to go forward to escape the Sun even though he knows it won't help and eventually he sees There are guys again There's one guy there and they kind of eye each other out of the corner of the eye and he feels that he still has the gun in his pocket And he sort of walks up and the Sun is just beating down on his head and it's really unpleasant And let's see if I can find the the line because it's it's really compelled my whole being tensed And I squeezed my hand around the revolver the trigger gave I felt the smooth underside of the butt and there in that noise sharp and deafening at the same time is where it all started I shook off the sweat and Sun I knew that I had shattered the harmony of the day the exceptional silence of a beach where I'd been happy Then I fired four more times at the motionless body where the bullets lodged without leaving a trace and it was like knocking four quick times On the door of unhappiness and that ends part one. So oh you poor thing.

He shot a guy. Yeah, and it was mostly cuz he was hot Oh, he's not he's not like him. Oh poor guy so hot and talking on the door of unhappiness Okay, and the second part we can spend maybe a little less time with I'm gonna kind of skim over pieces of it But he's rested right yeah as should happen when you shoot a guy five times at the beach They arrested him for murder and he's very straightforward He likes his investigators and he almost like that he tells him everything He's very sweet like this is what happened and I was really hot and I shot the guy and then I shot him four more times And he's meant to it was really uncomfortable and yeah I didn't like go there specifically to shoot him I was just walking on the beach and was very sunny and I was very sweaty and he was there and I shot him and he thought that the Investigators were very nice and so he almost shook his hand He's like but then I remembered I was a murderer so I probably shouldn't do that and then he talks to the The head examining magistrate and the guy pulls out crucifix and tries to convert him He's like aren't you going to say sorry for your sins and he's like no I don't think so it's like I'm not even really sure what a sin he is yeah like that might come later He's like I don't really understand what you're trying to do and he's like I never seen a soul as hardened as yours Every sinner always has some reaction to this and breaks down crying. He's like well I don't really believe in God so he wants to be accommodating though and every time after that it's fairly comfortable and at the very end Whatever the magistrates is like well mr.

Antichrist that'll be all for today And he's like I really enjoyed those times when he clapped me on the shoulder and calling mr. Antichrist and sending out and then he sort of gets used to prison He doesn't like it initially, but he kind of accommodates himself. He's like once you sort of like narrow your expectations You can use any place he's like if I I think if I could have lived inside of a tree staring upwards at the sky I think I could use to eventually right you can use anything eventually That's my mom used to say and so he gets used to prison and then we have the trial which is some more of this ridiculous things and The prosecution doesn't really know and throw this whole thing She comes stops coming to see him after I think after the trial but initially she comes to see him tries to smile and she tries to take care of him But he's like it was really loud in there I can really hear and there's somebody next to me talking about a basket that they had to drop off of their kid and She seemed nice But I was just I was getting kind of hot. I know everybody talking around me and at the trial The prosecutor tries to paint him as some monster with no remorse And he says what he's and they bring up a ton all of this business with his mom, right that you should have caring Yeah, you should have shown remorse because he didn't show any remorse the prosecution painted it is almost worse than the parasite What's his mom's mom's mom?

Yeah, and he didn't have any room like he didn't show any feeling over that weekend Oh, and so it's brought up a ton at the trial that and weirdly enough Remember when I told you he smoked a cigarette and it took a cup of coffee Yes They make a big deal out of that they say and they will conclude that a stranger may offer a cup of coffee But the beside the body of one who brought him into the world a son should have refused it And I wonder if that's where we get the title for our book the stranger So I got that offer the cup of coffee and he took it in front of his mom But they make a really big deal about this and they're like you are the worst kind of person that is outside of society And you're a monster and this is terrible and we should kill you I'm sympathetic to that. Oh my god, and but he says may not kill you They they do have their final statements and both lawyers give some big ones and he is condemned to having his cut off for his head Cut off for the good of the French people really they still get in back then yeah I guess and the France and he takes he takes issue with it There's no chance like of him getting out of it. Yeah, he's caught up in this machinery of justice for something And he even tries to tell him like look it was the son that made me do it It wasn't really hot and it's a thing that happened and I didn't intend to shoot him It just it was he was there and I was there and I had a gun and it happened they made a big deal of him pausing before the next four shots, right and He thinks that there should be some chance like a one in ten chance that the drugs don't work on the table or that They'll give you a chance to run away and maybe you can make it But they'll probably shoot you like that because the way it is you just sort of hope that the guillotine works the first time And so you're forced into the sort of mental collaboration with your own ex like moral collaboration with your own execution, right? And he he struggles with hope he hopes for his his appeal to go through But it's not really happening and he just gets really depressed and only allows himself hope after he fully entertains his own coming death And kind of deals with if I don't die now I would have died 20 years from now and then my feelings would be exactly the same right I would know what was coming what changes that it's a 20 years earlier And then he lets himself have a little bit of hope and so it's just sort of the story of a condemned man And that's the story kind of all the way up to near the end and what we're going to read together with the permission of the audience is The exchange of the last couple pages.

Okay, how fun. Yeah, okay, so here you go. Thank you So right before so he's been sitting in jail for a few days every night hoping that he doesn't hear the workman working on the guillotine outside And every morning afraid that he'll hear footsteps that are coming for him And then who comes to visit him is a priest and he's been refusing this priest's admittance for days, right? He has been saying you cannot come to see me and he refused him today to and maybe I'm the priest on Marso Oh, I actually want to switch back.

Oh, wait. No, what does that mean? Because I think I think Donaldson can bring the frantic frenetic effort of the priest together I originally thought you priest maybe because your voice is so wonderful and soothing But the priest kind of loses it in the end and I'm hoping that Donaldson can kind of bring that bring that There's more character notes Graham. Do you feel about that?

I'm just saying that like I'm more lines. You have a way more like words It's true. Okay, so The priest comes in he sat there for a few seconds leaning forward with his elbows on his knees looking at his hands They were slender and sinewy and they reminded me of two nimble animals He slowly rubbed one against the other then he sat there leaning forward like that for so long that for an instant I seem to forget he was there But suddenly he raised his head and looked straight at me Why have you refused to see me? Yes I said that I didn't believe in God He wanted to know if I was sure and I said that I didn't see any reason to ask myself that question It seemed unimportant He then leaned back against the wall hands flat on his thighs almost as if it wasn't me He was talking to he remarked that sometimes we think we're sure when in fact we're not I didn't say anything He looked at me and asked what do you think I said it was possible in any case I may not have been sure about what really did interest me But I was absolutely sure about what didn't and it just so happened that he was talking that what he was talking about didn't interest me He looked away and without moving asked me if I wasn't talking that way out of extreme despair I explained to him that I wasn't desperate.

I was just afraid which was only natural and God can help you He said every man I have known in your position has turned to him I acknowledge that that was there right it also meant that they must have had the time for it as for me I didn't want anybody's help and I just didn't have the time to interest myself and what didn't interest me at that Point he threw up his hands at annoyance, but then sat forward and smoothed out the folds of his casic when he had finished He started in again addressing me as my friend if he was talking to me in this way It wasn't because I was condemned to die the way he saw it We were all condemned to die, but I interrupted him by saying that it wasn't the same thing and besides it wouldn't be a consolation anyway Certainly he agreed, but if you don't die today, you'll die tomorrow or the next day and then the same question will arise How will you face that terrifying or deal? I said I would face it exactly as I was facing it now at that he stood up and looked me straight in the eye It was a game I knew well I played it a lot with Emmanuelle and Celeste their two guys, you know Celeste was a shockier and usually they're the ones who looked away The chaplain knew the game well, too I could tell right away his gaze never faltered and his voice didn't falter either when he said Have you no hope at all and do you really live with the thought that when you die you die and nothing remains? Yes, I said then he lowered his head and sat back down He told me that he pitied me he thought it was more than a man could bear I didn't feel anything except that he was beginning to annoy me then I turned away and went and stood against stood under the Skylight I leave my shoulder against the wall without really following what he was saying I heard him start asking me questions again. He was talking an agitated urgent voice I could see that he was genuinely upset so I listened more closely.

He tries to mollify people as best he can He was expressing his certainty that my appeal would be granted But I was carrying the burden of a sin from which I had to free myself according to him human justice was nothing and divine justice was everything I pointed out that it was the former that had condemned me He response his response was that it hadn't washed away my sin for all that I told him I didn't know what a sin was all they had told me was that I was guilty I was guilty I was paying for it and nothing more could be asked of me at that point He stood up again and the thought occurred to me that in such a narrow cell if you wanted to move around He didn't have any options. He could either sit down or stand up I was staring at the ground he took a step toward me and stopped as if he didn't dare come any closer He looked at the sky through the bars You were wrong my son He said more could be asked of you and it may be asked and what's that you could be asked to see see what the breeze Gave around my cell and answered in a voice that sounded very weary to me every stone here sweats was suffering I know that I have never looked at them without a feeling of anguish But deep in my heart, I know that the most wretched among you have seen a divine face emerge from their darkness That is the face you are asked to see this prick me up a little I said I've been looking at the stones in these walls for months there wasn't anything or anyone in the world I knew better maybe at one time way back I had searched for a face in them But the face I was looking for was as bright as the Sun and the flame of desire and it belonged to Marie I had searched for it in vain now it was all over in any case I'd never seen anything emerge from any sweating stones the chapel looked at me with the kind of sadness I now had my back flag against the wall and light was streaming over my forehead He muttered a few words I didn't catch and abruptly asked if he could embrace me No, I said he turned and walked over to the wall and slowly ran his hand over it Do you really love this earth as much as all that he murmured? I didn't answer he stood there with his back to me for quite a long time his presence was grating and oppressive I was just about to tell him to go to leave me alone when all of a sudden turning toward me burst out No, I refuse to believe you I know that it's one time or another you've wished for another life I said of course I had but it didn't mean anything more than wishing to be rich or to be able to swim faster or to have more Nicely shaped mouth It was all the same but he stopped me and wanted to know how I pictured this other life Then I shouted at him one where I could remember this life and that's what I told him I'd had enough He wanted to talk to me about God again But I went up to him and made one last attempt to explain to him that I'd only a little time left and I didn't want to waste it on God He tried to change the subject by asking you why I was calling him Monsieur and not father that got me mad And I told him he wasn't my father. He wasn't even on my side.

Yes, my son He said putting my hand on putting his hand on my shoulder I am on your side, but you have no way of knowing it because your heart is blind. I shall pray for you Then I don't know why but something inside me snapped I started yelling at the top of my lungs and I insulted him and told him not to waste his prayers on me I grabbed him by the collar of his casock I was pouring out on him everything that was in my heart cries of anger and cries of joy He seemed so certain about everything didn't he and none of his certain tees was worth one hair of a woman's head He wasn't even sure he was alive because he was living like a dead man Whereas it looked as if I was the one who'd come up empty-handed, but I was sure about me about everything sure Then he could ever be sure of my life and sure of the death I had waiting for me Yes, that was all I had but at least I had as much of a hold on it as it had on me I had been right. I was still right. I was always right.

I'd live my life one way and I could just as well have lived another I had done this and I hadn't done that I hadn't done this thing But I had another and so it was as if I had waited all this time for this moment And for the first light of this dawn to be vindicated nothing nothing mattered And I knew why and so did he throughout the whole absurd life I'd lived a dark wind had been rising toward me from somewhere deep in my future across years that were still to come and as It passed this wind leveled whatever was offered to me at the time in years no more real than the ones I was living What did other people's deaths or a mother's love matter to me? What did his god or the lives of people choose where the lives people choose or the fate they think they elect matter to me when we're all Elected by the same fate me and billions of people like him who also called themselves my brothers Couldn't he see couldn't he see that? Everybody was privileged there were only privileged people the others would all be condemned one day And he would be condemned to what would it matter if he were accused of murder and then executed because he didn't cry at his mom's funeral Salamano's dog was worth just as much as his wife the little robot woman It's a woman he saw in a bar once was just as guilty as the Parisian woman mass unmarried or as Marie who had wanted me to marry her What didn't matter that Raymond was as much my friend as Celeste it was worth a lot more than him What did it matter that Marie now offered her lips to a numerous so couldn't he couldn't this condemn man see and that from somewhere deep in my Future all the shouting all the shouting had me grasping for air But they were already tearing the chaplain from my grip and the guards were threatening me He calmed them though and looked at me from a moment without saying anything his eyes were full of tears then he turned and disappeared With him gone, I was able to calm down again I was exhausted and threw myself on the bunk I must have fallen asleep because I woke up with the stars in my face sounds of the countryside were drifting in smells of night Earth and salt air were cooling my temples the wondrous place of that sleeping summer flowed through me like a tide then the dark hour before dawn Sirens blasted they were announcing departures for a world that now and forever meant nothing to me for the first time in a long time I thought about mom. I felt as if I understood why at the end of her life She had taken a fiance why she had played at beginning again even there in that home where lives were fading out Evening was a kind of wistful respite so close to death mama must have felt free then and ready to live it all again Nobody nobody had the right to cry over her and I felt ready to live it all again too As if that blind rage had washed me clean rid me of hope for the first time in that night alive with signs and stars I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world finding it so much like myself So like a brother really I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again for everything to be consummated for me to feel Less alone.

I'd only to wish that there'd be a large crowd of spectators that they have my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate Graham is not happy. That's feels alright. So that is that's how the book I'm sorry I didn't tell you that's in the book. That's how it ends He is contented I and he dies and that scene presumably presumably I mean they're not gonna describe it But that's that's the story So I want to get your guys's response first and then we'll talk a little bit about this fellow's philosophy and how that affected me Personally, so what do you guys think Graham is not having a favorite response?

He's cranky. Oh, no, it's just it's so it's just like Juvenile what do you mean that he is like no one has a right to cry over my mother? Human be like we live in the vast indifference of the world wherein like we are all condemned to die So why do all it's it's the same reason why we were rolling our eyes and moaning about Holden Caufield It's this for me. It's the same ethos as Holden Caufield They're like everyone's a phone at least the only difference I guess from home coffee was like he doesn't think he's not a phony Hold on Caufield thinks he's like not the phony never else is a phony with this one that this Marso thinks that he is he's just as meaningless as everything and And so what is his?

What's his like his desire? What is he hold on to the fact that at least he's what man enough to face it? Yeah, then everyone else isn't everyone sort of hiding behind things And It's got the veneer of romantic. He's like everything this priest believes is not worth like the hair on a beautiful woman's head Which is like a very French thing to say But it's also like okay fine that sounds romantic and you read that and you're like oh yes That is so meaningful and you you know you smoke your cigarette And you think that that is that is so profound but like let that philosophy play itself over a life and you will Like smother and kill any person that you love if that's how you sort of are gonna treat them They're gonna sort of venerate them as some kind of reason for existing like the fire that I had inside me burn for marine No, that's that's ridiculous.

He's really clear with himself that it's mostly physical lust. He knows it He tells her I probably don't love you. Yeah, and when she's there He's not like I wanted to talk to her and get to know her and pour into her He's like I wish I could touch her dress and feel the thinness of material and squeeze her shoulders Like he wants even in the trial. He doesn't really make eye contact with her that many times There's just too much going on it's really hot and there flies around and everybody looks funny in yeah that kind of like boiling things down to the The like tyranny of the present moment Where everything like he lives a flat existence everything is as meaningless and meaningful as everything else So the shooting of a man the love of a woman the conversations about God and like walking around and feeling kind of gross because all hot It is is of equal importance to him And is is professed with certain equal importance and so when it says like He stared at me in the eye and gave me that look and this is a game I know well It's because everybody yeah, of course you know like game while everybody you meet is gonna be ticked off of you And I'm like looking you'll be like are you serious?

Are you serious saying things like that and which is what he's revealed right? Yeah, his like a reaction to his mother done his lack of reactions But so I mean like what is this guy sociopath is he just well they describe him as a monster and we're left with the question is he? No, I'm not the right term. Yeah, this this book and I don't know if we'll go in the more of this this Relax occasion sure if for your or if this will be more part two existentialism is tough because it's a lot to really like about it the Yeah, I don't know if this even gets into It seems to be hinted at with that last little explosion of yeah The difference of the world earlier when it says that I chose them to live this way and not another way and I'm the one who made that choice And there were consequences to it and that's all there is to it.

I mean that's kind of a look at that The meaning is derived from your actions not from who you're supposed to be in the first place. That's a form of existentialism So that's what's tough about this. I really like all of that. It's the importance of actions It's the importance of taking ownership of the consequences of those actions, but there's something to I think comparing Or so to call field is a apt comparison.

He seems adolescent in some sense. He is I'm gonna say he's thoughtless to which AJ would say no He's always aware of his feelings perfectly to which I'd say but he hasn't considered the importance of those feelings like that's the thoughtlessness It doesn't have the right reactions to this scenario. It's like a it's an immature honesty He says technically true things through the entire what we discovered, but they aren't the full truth of what's happening Yeah, he's authentic And so I think there's an attractiveness to be so someone who is actually authentic as opposed to Playacting or for being you know to talk about home coffee to be phony So he's not like hamming it up for the courtroom to try to get out of this thing So he's authentically owning what he's done, but His authenticity doesn't get doesn't get him off the hook for having the wrong reactions to the events of a regular human life Those would you know authenticity is not sufficient is like a moral gauge, right? Yeah, but there's something that is I feel back is really crapping on age is the book that you like in college He's gonna come back until I liked it.

Oh, I liked it good Again, but I want to say there's something appealing to that authenticity and that's the part that's hard about this is there's part of this That I appreciate and I think there's an important strand being pulled on here But overall I would not want to trade places with or so right I mean who would he's in jail and condemn to die But when he says at the end that he's like opened himself to this like happiness I felt that I'd been happy and that I was happy again like he does not what we view as a tragedy He is not viewing as a tragedy, right? So I guess he would say it doesn't mean anything to trade places with someone else But the veneration of this kind of attitude as heroic is also something that Kind of isn't bothers me like that this kind of This kind of emotionless indifference to the things of the world is treated as like somehow deep and profound But really it's it's it's well. I mean it's just it's just not dealing with with a thing of the world So I mean like this is I've been rewatching Mr. Robot.

Did you watch that series? No, did you watch it? So I've been rewatching I stopped in season two. I've been rewatching bits of it It's kind of a weird thing to be watching during the middle of a global pandemic But the main character like the Elliott Alderson character is very similar to this kind of thing where there's there's kind of that Also, maybe you can get into like a Raskolnikov type of thing Raskolnikov's a little bit different But this the the sort of the veneration of the the coldly indifferent to the the the Pie passions of life and passing that office and this is a a profound and a authentic way of existing.

I think is Not true. I think is disingenuous. I think they're like 15 year old kid that reads this as like yes That's the way that you can beat the feels that's the way that you can like not get Dragged down in the difficulty of life is to rise above it with Basically neutering everything in the world and treating it with with this indifference. That's real power and I don't and that's real sort of ownership of self And I don't think that's true.

I'm wondering if we're talking about both sides of our mouth because So far back we had a podcast on Boethius and doesn't Boethius say the same thing that we're to be happy despite our circumstances What is this other than happiness despite sir? He's not happy. He is he's happy. He's happy.

He's been happy He's happy again. I would say the difference is that Boethius had had something tragic happen to him Whereas Marcel shot a man. There's a difference in the origin of the action the punishment Marcel receives is just for his poor action Boethius was a he was unduly Exiled mentally not entirely he did prevent a plot from the Senate from reaching the ears of Theodore the Ostrogoth And for that reason was condemned as treasonous even though he was just trying to prevent the deaths of an entire Senate He from what I understand he did do something wrong. Sure.

I would it's at a different scale I guess is what I would say compared to literally killing a man in cold blood. There's there's something noble about what he's talking Okay, so they they both find themselves in jail and perhaps the different thing that landed Them there like that is a different thing But does the nobility of the action that landed them in prison change what attitude they should have in prison and where both ends in Difference in indifference to their circumstances. Oh Like whether or not however they ended up there they end up with kind of the same attitude. I can be happy anywhere Yes, and that's a problem again.

That's where I say the trouble is that there are parts of it that sound really appealing I do think it matter I mean so hasn't dealt with the divine part of what happens after he dies in a way that Boethius has Which is kind of point or a piece of what lady philosophy is teaching him Yeah Yeah, lady philosophy does not teach to him that like you you can take your sort of stoic View of the world because everything is ultimately meaningless and doesn't mean anything Lady philosophy teaches Boethius that you are still to love the good for the right reasons whereas Marso does not live to life trying to write the so the difference is that Boethius attempts, you know to live a good life and then just the Volatility of the world and the sort of the the injustice catches up of the world catches up with him And yes Maybe he's thrown prison because he got up in some caught caught up in a political scheme or maybe was purely unjust but with Marso he killed a man and is not guilty about it and Looks the priest in the eye and tells him that he's happy because he's shouldered the responsibility of like sucking meaning out of the world And those are him and both of these are very different positions with that because the cure for Marso is that he needs to Drain the world of meaning whereas Boethius doesn't do that. He doesn't drain the world of meaning in order to like Be happy or in order to be content. So I feel like that's the big difference Is that both of you still posits a meaningful universe with it with with the concept of the good that can be known where there is a God That is good Like the human lady floss we go all through Reminding him and giving him recollection of all the things that he has learned under her tutelage whereas the priest comes and maybe does a bad job Of it, but right but he's giving but is asking the prisoner questions about the good and questions about God He's like that is really interesting, but so the point on gentle indifference that Marso makes then is that not dissimilar to the wheel of fortune? So Boethius says there's essentially no moral significance to whether you're wealthy or you're in poverty It's just that you don't know what it is.

It's not that there is no it's not that there's no meaning It's that the meaning is something that human beings don't get to understand So fortune does it from her own because she's been given life given license by God to keep keep the world churning But from what I understand what Boethius is promoting is a decoupling of your moral well-being from your fortune Like you might be down in the dumps your happiness needs to be stuck somewhere else. Yes seems to be exactly what I mean No, he is decoupling himself from moral well-being. He's not decoupling his moral well-being from fortune He's decoupling his identity from any sense of moral well-being and therein is finding his happiness as he claims. Okay, so here man It's a bummer we have so little time left.

This is I honestly thought this episode may not go the full time But I think we're gonna end up not not having enough. It is too part It is it is a two-parter But this is the part that we may not return to and I don't know maybe it's a little more self-revolatory so This book appeals to me at least a little bit and I wonder I wonder I wondered in reading it another time If this book had more of a profound influence on me than I thought or if it was simply how faulty I was as a kid But what you said earlier that the full truth extends further than the real I Realized I think rather young that Something could be called like the same action can be called surgery or murder depending on the intent behind the action Right if I slit you from stem to stern. I mean I guess there's a little bit different outcome Maybe there's a different outcome Maybe you die in both cases you bleed out if I was trying to help you I'm called a doctor if I was trying to hurt you on call the murderer when the the action performed upon you is the same And so that is meaning given by human intent and by human moral evaluation Right and so to a certain extent like those things are not real. They are not hold on me Those things are not actual in this world right the actual action was a knife went into you and moved and you got Separated some things happen in your body that are either going to be helpful to your living or unhelpful to your living And how you feel about that is meaning that is foisted upon it by you and by the society around you and so So let me let me get there is me having so is so many feels so I think I tend to be a very happy peaceful person right or at least I'm steady and part of that is by Decoupling my passions from things that I don't feel necessary for them to get hacked about like when people are offended about things For example, I heard that some people were offended about the latest season of the great British Bake-off Why I don't care like that has no purchase in my life at all and that's something that doesn't like not only is it not real It'll never be real and it doesn't matter at all that's something that doesn't bother me In fact, I'm very hard to offend I rarely offended in fact the only thing that ever seems to really offend me is when my personal pride is challenged and But there's usually very rarely like someone directly calls me stupid to my face nobody enjoys that I don't enjoy that either But other than that like I think I for a long time decoupled Meaning from things and I wonder how much this book and that attitude has influenced me and I think only in recent years You guys this is the part where you guys go fix me But I think the important difference here between me and Rousseau and Boethius is that where I find my Deep peace is that I don't see the world as as meaningless necessarily I see some of the small things meaningless in the great scheme of things and from that I'm taking from Ecclesiastes, right?

All is grasping for the wind all is meaningless and grasping for the wind It's all vapor our lives are but a vapor and won't be here as long as the grass And so all those little things that I could get all hacked up about and go all screwy over It'll be over in a week like if it's a big problem and when I die It's not gonna matter anybody at least of all me and if I can couch that rather than in meaningless as our main character does But in the overall redemption of the universe right my life might be kind of crappy but got a sovereign that's a huge difference got a sovereign and I'm headed for heaven and and And so in the big scheme of things in the eternal scene these things don't really matter And I don't have to get my hackles up about them I don't have to be ruffled because somebody is having a small problem that in a week's time isn't gonna matter And I try to remind my students of that this test seems to matter to you now but when you're 30 you literally won't remember that happened you won't remember this test at all and For that reason like it just turns down the volume on everything and I'm what I'm worried is that now the volume is just low on my life Right and Grammy talk about the high the high passions, right? I don't have many I mean I do occasionally, but it's not it's definitely not constant thing I'm more of a I'm a a calm and windless sea as it were and I'm wondering if that's a bad thing I find myself at peace and generally happy most of the time and that's couched and I think any eternal attitude But I think functionally it's not very different from or so But so I mean when I think high passions, I think it's more my feeling on his best capture with the idea of occasion I think that I will do it. I think you are totally right in saying that saying that like the test is not a really meaningful thing and 31 you're 30 you won't remember taking it I'm not you can say that's one thing, but it's also but it's slightly different to say well Your marriage day is just one day out of any any other day and 30 years won't mean anything to you anymore And when you say that it's like well No, that shouldn't be the way that we think about a marriage day or that shouldn't be the way that we think about your son being born or Something like that that and so you would I think we would rightly say that the person who takes that level of indifference to those sorts of things is And I know that you would agree this is not it isn't is that fault right like stable sentiments and the stable sentiments doesn't mean You don't you you're stable You don't feel things stable sentiments means that you have the appropriate feeling for the for the appropriate occasion If something terrible happened To a student at the school and all of their ninth-grade friends were crying you wouldn't say you're 45 You'll probably you'll have a hard time remembering what he looked like no, you don't like that's that may be true But you know that that's that doesn't it shouldn't be you don't want it and you also you don't want it to be true so There's the I think like emotional health has to involve The appropriate feeling at the action or the appropriate feeling for the context now the worry is that the we don't we can't contain the appropriate feeling And then we react big so when you say like people getting their shorts in a lot about about Great British Bake Off Yeah, that's emotionally immature, but somebody who sort of sneakers at the grandfather's funeral is also is equally as emotionally immature and And somebody that kind of downplay is the importance of their wedding day you would also be concerned about their maturity. I know I remember somebody Somebody complimented me on something and I Really downplayed and I was sort of like I don't even know if I feigned a fence or if I was actually offended But I kind of downplayed it and then a couple days passed and the person came back to me later and said like I Like when someone compliments you on something that they actually thought was good.

You need to don't just like say it was nothing you know say thank you for it and Recognize the occasion and also the sort of the vulnerability that it takes for the person on the other side to come and you know Say something so maybe I think that's the other thing that sort of is bothering me about this main character is that he doesn't realize that Everybody else has the same that he doesn't realize that other people are people too like There's there's a complete sort of he's so confused when Marie is sad when he says that he would probably marry Anybody else who asked him to marry her? He's like oh she didn't want to eat her dinner I wonder why well, it's like that's a problem I believe he doesn't have that problem and that's that seems to be a That's a that's a difference between the two of them. All right, so it's a last Thomas. Do you have any okay?

So it's a last thing as a preview for my next episode I'm gonna talk about the death of my grandpa. I know a heavy way to end this I Didn't cry that day and what happened is I went over to his house And he had died while taking a nap on the couch and I had him on the floor and he was covered with a yellow sheet with tubes sticking out of you know where his head would be and There was a to add to the strange symbolism of the day There was a national geographic that said the deep freeze sitting on his coffee table and then my grandma had had lost her You know her mind a little she was she had dementia and she was confused about why everyone was there and she thought we should take advantage of the time And everyone take a Christmas picture together so she kept on trying to get everyone together for Christmas picture Eventually, she saw her husband on the floor and said is that art like my grandpa and we're like, yeah And then she goes get him out here I guess you didn't want to see the body and then to mirror her there was a can of mixed nuts on the table So to again add to the strange symbolism of the day and as the two undertakers came up to the door I saw them through the window and they were laughing and joking and punch each other in the arm and having a really good time And then they ran the doorbell and when I opened it they were straight-faced. I'm very sorry for them it was another day and I Suppose for me it didn't comes a shock my grandfather was over 80 years old I knew it was coming eventually and my grandma had been crazy for a long time and so when it finally came I didn't I didn't feel surprised and I feel shocked and as an English teacher I guess I think about death a lot and so death doesn't death at the end of human life doesn't come as a shock to me and I love my grandpa I also knew that he was head-to-heaven and so there's this strange absurdity to life Nothing was the way I expected it that she was yellow and plastic not white like a sheet you see in the movies and my grandma's trying to get us I'll take Christmas pictures and it was just the strangest day I've had in a long time and that absurdity the The weird I want to say meaninglessness, but I told you about the symbolism The weirdness of life is what kamoo comments upon in this book and in the myth of sisfus Which we'll get to next week what do we do in front of this strange absurdity of life? How do we deal with that and?

The question for him is whether we should all sort of end it if life is so goofy and weird and strange and meaningless Why why live it at all if we're just gonna end in at the end anyway, right? If there's something suffering in the mix why not just opt out and so that's that's his question for the myth of sisfus to be taken next week I look forward to the conversation. I got thoughts life is weird And I hope you have thoughts if you have specific things you want to take me or say about this book You can send them into the guys at classical stuff. I guess you want to keep this conversation going in the in-between episode also If you guys want sure, okay, so we'll keep talking about this in our in-between episodes We post on patreon for supporters there you can find that at patreon.com so many wonderful nuggets in there Oh my word a lot of yeah, yeah, I sing a lot a lot talk about Bitcoin I think you opened this episode of singing so I didn't realize I did well Sir You just said this you can email us at the guys at classical stuff.net you can find us on Twitter at classical stuff C L S S C A L stuff and I think those are our places our classical stuff.net if you want to check out our website I'm not so on you do be such classical stuff there.

Our list is getting very long of places to find us I think that is everything so for Graham AJ and Thomas we are signing off. Thanks. Bye. Bye.

It's me. I got a press