#143. Becca Wright & Kate in Conversation

It's like you work around it. There's this, it's not a pebble in your shoe, it's actually a rock in your shoe, and it's just there, and you deal with it, because you can manage life with this amount of pain until you can't. And it took me a long time to say I can't, which this is interesting. One of the things I learned about, especially women with codependency in myself, is that that resiliency, when you heal, you can change and turn it into something that's more powerful and positive for yourself, because when you put up with so much pain and hurt for something that's not healthy for you, when you're able to do that for something that is healthy for you, it's so magical and powerful.

Welcome here to Thrive Listeners. This is episode 143, and this one's a little different. I'm speaking today with Becca Wright, and she's a here to Thrive listener. We started communicating on Instagram, and she was talking about how much of an impact listening to here to Thrive has had in her personal development journey and her own growth, and we thought it would be fun to talk it through.

She is so wise, and honestly, if here to Thrive has had any part to play in her journey, it just warms my heart. She talks about so many important topics in here that I know will land with so many of you. Becca tells her own story, but it is a story of recovering from codependency, finding a way to stand on her own two feet, and really a story from struggle to transformation. So for any listener out there who knows what it's like to be in a difficult relationship, or if you are in one now, I do not doubt that you will resonate with Becca's story.

So that's part of the conversation, and then I asked Becca to change seats with me and interview me. I have no idea what you would like to know about me, and I was interested to see if Becca could just ask me some really personal questions, and so we do that as well. So stay tuned to hear more about me as well as listen to Becca's amazing path to growth. Now I don't doubt that you'll want to track Becca down after listening to this podcast.

You can find her over at Instagram at BeccaLivesWell. She also has a private Facebook group for women who identify as empathic people, pleases, and struggle with self-worth and boundaries, or are healing from codependency. So if that sounds like you after listening to this, you can go to Facebook and join the Miss Lives Well group. Welcome to Head of Thrive.

I'm your host Kate Snowwise. This is a podcast with people who are ready to step up and live a heavier life. It's for those of us who are dedicated to understanding ourselves and getting the best that we can out of this thing called life. It's a mix of psychology and modern spiritual thought, always with a focus on practical advice, so that you can take it back and apply it to your own life.

I don't believe we're here to merely survive. I truly believe we're here to thrive. So let's get going. Becca, thank you for joining me on Head of Thrive.

I'm excited to talk with you and then have you, well, like I gave you the instructions and tear it up to me. So this should be fun. Yeah, hi Kate. I'm so excited to be here.

It's actually a pinch me moment to get to be able to talk to you. Just to give you awesome context, Becca Wright is a Head of Thrive listener, and we started communicating on Instagram and she told me about how much of an impact Head of Thrive had had on her life. And we thought it'd be kind of cool to talk it through with you. And then I thought there would be no more perfect to interview me than a Head of Thrive listener, because I really don't know what you guys might want to ask me.

So Becca, you're responsible for the whole Head of Thrive community right now. Awesome. No pressure. No pressure whatsoever.

Let's start a little bit with you and your journey. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and where you were a few years back? Yeah, so it starts for where I'm at right now. So today I'm in a place in life I never could have expected.

I'm 34. I'm divorced. I'm living in an apartment with my teenage daughter, my 10-year-old special needs son. I'm in grad school.

I'm working full-time. And recently I had my mom move in with me. So it's definitely not what was expected in my plan for life. And it's actually such a blessing.

And I'm so grateful that I'm in this place. But it started from a few years ago, actually, on how I got here. I was living in Germany with my ex-husband at the time. He's a government contractor.

And so he had the opportunity to work internationally. We lived in Germany and Hawaii over the last 10 years. So it wasn't such a bad gig. And when we were in Hawaii, actually, this was probably about five years ago, he had an affair.

And that is what started this long journey of discovery and worth and starting all over. That affair really rocked our world because we had to sell everything that we owned and move back to Colorado. He wasn't at the time willing to work on the marriage and decide if he wanted to actually stay and move to Colorado with us. So yeah, we sold everything that we owned, came back to Colorado.

And it was a lot of uncertainty, a lot of unknown for those eight to nine months that we were living there. There wasn't trust being built. When it go to therapy, there wasn't repair being happened. And he had asked me if I wanted to move to Germany.

And I was crushed by that because I had my whole sense of security already ripped from me. And I just wanted to live in Colorado and have a home and just feel safe. And so his proposal for that, I think, was an escape of reality and wanting to face something. But I ended up saying, OK, let's go, because I wasn't ready to give up the relationship.

I wasn't ready to. I knew that if I didn't go, if we stayed, we would have to break up our family. And I'd have to figure out how to do life on my own. And I was not ready to embrace that.

So I agreed to move to Germany. And it was really, really difficult. I think they're all though. It was beautiful and amazing to get to travel and experience this other culture.

And we traveled to so many incredible places. And I'm very grateful for the opportunity. However, living there was really difficult, especially given our circumstances. Our marriage was not in a good place.

I had a special needs child. And so getting access to therapy and services for both our marriage and then also my kiddo was, it just made everything really, really difficult. And I remember there was this day, very vividly. I think it was a Saturday.

He was in our bedroom folding laundry. And I just walked in and I said, I want to divorce. I'm done. And it was the first time I actually said the word divorce.

Like, I want to divorce a D word. And I was just very clear about it. And matter of fact, and he just kind of said, OK, I don't think he took me seriously in that moment. And it was definitely not just one and done kind of thing.

That in of itself was a journey. I think of it as for an engagement, your planning for a beginning. And it's interesting because when a relationship ends and there's a divorce, it's the opposite. And I don't know that there's a word for it.

But there's a process for ending a relationship, especially when you're in a marriage and you have kids. It doesn't just happen suddenly. It's a long process. And we were living in Germany.

So there was a lot of things to figure out. So we knew we didn't want to move the kids out of school. That would have been too much change. So we decided we're going to stay in Germany for at least a year.

So the kids can finish school. And then we both agreed that moving back home to Colorado would be in the best interest of everybody. And luckily, in that respect, we were always on the same page. That was, I'm really grateful that there wasn't arguing when it came to that on that.

We were always on the same page. I'm super taken back by how all of this must have felt bigger in terms of just the grieving and the, like you're saying, the dissolution of your marriage. But that took, I'm assuming years from the affair through to the heartbreak, through to the moving to then already making the decision and having another year to co-habitate. Like how did you survive that emotionally?

Oh man, yeah, here grieving is right. And when I look back on it, when you see that, the grieving process for me was years because there wasn't closure for so long. It was mental torture in a lot of ways. And when you don't have the language, when you don't have the language of gaslighting or narcissism and empath and codependency, when you don't know those words, you know in your heart that there's something that's not right that doesn't feel good, but because you can't explain it, it's almost like it's just you and it's in your head, if that makes sense.

So once I started learning the language around that, that's when the healing really was able to happen. I was able to explore, oh, what's codependency? Oh, what are attachment styles? Gaslighting, emotional abuse.

This is just as harmful. It's invisible and you can't explain it to people, but I'm really experiencing this. And that definitely happened for a long time. What kept me there was fear, fear of being alone, fear of I had financial dependence on him.

I had fear of breaking up my family because I come from a household where I didn't have parents that were married and I didn't want to have that for my kids. I wanted everybody to be in the same household and grow up with what I didn't have. So that's what kept me as a fear of those things. And I, it's like you work around it.

There's this, it's not a pebble in your shoe, it's actually a rock in your shoe. And it's just there and you deal with it because you can manage life with this amount of pain until you can't. And it took me a long time to say I can't, which this is interesting. One of the things I learned about, especially women with codependency in myself, is that that resiliency, when you heal, you can change and turn it into something that's more powerful and positive for yourself because when you put up with so much pain and hurt for something that's not healthy for you, when you're able to do that for something that is healthy for you, it's so magical and powerful.

That totally just makes my heart warm. I couldn't agree more with it. And I think it's a really optimistic and hopeful way that other women I know right now, are listening to your story and failing that sense of fear that you mentioned. And to be able to see a light at the end of that tunnel that maybe I'm stronger than I think, right?

Oh my gosh, absolutely. And that's what I want to connect with right now because I so vividly remember, and I actually shared a picture on Instagram with a vulnerable one, like where I'm sitting on the floor and I'm just crying. And I took a picture of that moment because I knew I needed to remember this. I wanted to document that this is what absolute broken feels like, where I don't even know how I can do this.

I am different than everybody else. I'm not strong. I don't have the skills. I am just going to always be in the start place and I don't know how to get out.

I've been there and it is a process to get out and it's individual for every person. But there is light at the end of the tunnel like you were saying when you do the healing work. And healing is one of those things that I think people try and do on their own. I see this with depression and even in codependency where people just try and cope and figure out how to get through this on their own.

And you talked about this recently with your COVID podcast about maladaptive coping. And we aren't able to heal until we have healthy ways of coping. And part of that involves tools. I'm not doing it alone.

Having a therapist, your podcast was, and all the more into that was one of the biggest tools I helped me, gave me language and actionable things to do to do the work on myself. So I think advice that I give to any woman listening that is in a similar journey and is afraid is that give yourself the tools because you can't do this alone. You can't do this alone. You're not meant to do it alone.

That's so powerful, Becca. As you're saying, we're not supposed to do any of this life, thing alone, to be honest. We're built to live in communities. And I think your advice is so pointed because when we can get those tools and resources to help lift us up, it makes such a difference.

It's just the power also to you instead of your circumstances, I think, when you do have those tools. That is, I'm just like, well, I'm a little mindblowing because that is such a powerful statement. It shifts the power to you rather than your circumstances. Oh, so good.

So Becca, you come back to Denver. You are at the point with your now ex-husband. I assume you split officially when you get back to the States and start moving on with these sort of separate lives. Yeah.

You mentioned you were financially dependent on him and the idea of doing life on your own, I'm assuming, was just terrifying. How did you get through these initial steps? In Germany, I moved up into our attic and I needed my own space. And I created a cozy place, a retreat.

I knew that as I'm going through this, I need to have, it's not perfect, but I'm gonna have my little room with some plants and pictures and just make it like this is my space where I retreat and I can think and process because it was such a difficult time. And what I did is that's when I discovered your podcast. I was using Mark Groves. I think it was just accidental just going on to the iTunes podcast app.

And I found here to thrive and I found Mark Groves. I don't know if you know Mark Groves. I don't know Mark Groves. Oh, goodness, you will love him.

I need to go find him. He's fantastic. Oh my gosh, if you guys meet and have a conversation together, that's gonna be like the epitome of amazing. I'm gonna have to go seek him out now, Mark Groves.

I'm coming out to you. Yeah, he's amazing. So between his podcast and yours, it was honestly, I think more powerful than therapy in a lot of ways because it's self-guided. So you have a guide and you have this message being shared from you and your guests, but as the individual, you get to decide what you take away from that.

And that's what I did. I would be up in the attic. I had like a little exercise bike and it was actually really pretty. We had this B.

We lived in the countryside in Germany. And so we just had this view of the forest and it was really, really pretty up there. And so I would just go on like this exercise bike or I'd go on a walkout on the forest and listen to a podcast every single day. And I binged.

I'd binged. I would do like back-to-back podcast sometimes but I just binging. And what I would do is I would take a screenshot every time there was something that stuck with me because I did not make a pen or paper and I would go back and relist into it and take notes. And I would write down the takeaways.

I quote, find the resources that you had shared or whoever your guest was, what their book was or their website. I followed them on Instagram. And so it was definitely this kind of this process I created of. And I had found you after you had already had a bunch of episodes.

So I would just kind of scroll through with what was resonating with me at the time. You have one about getting through a difficult relationship and courage. I mean, you hit on all the things that I needed to hear. And so I would just select an episode that was speaking to me.

And then I would take notes on it and journal. So during that period when I was living in Germany, up in the attic, I learned from you journaling. I learned gratitude. I bought my Panda Planner, which is been life-changing at the Panda Planner is a journal slash calendar.

So they have a, in the beginning, there's the different months. And then there's a weekly section and there's a daily section. And you also talked about this in your recent COVID podcast and I just loved it. Where being organized and having a structured kind of a schedule really creates such a sense of safety and getting it out of your head and onto paper.

And that's not something I'd really ever done. So I used my Panda Planner and I said, okay, I have about six to nine months to get my life together and to prepare for this move to Colorado. And I broke it down by month. And then I would break it down by week.

So I'd take my monthly overview of, okay, these are the five things I wanna do this month. And then I would break that down by week and then by day. And so it took like this really massive, huge, overwhelming change that was happening in my life. And I was able to break it down into so many smaller pieces that made it feel manageable.

Oh, I love that. You know that is totally up the line of my ideas. So I love that you did that. And that was one of the things that I learned from you and I gained from you is taking something that's really big and being able to break it up.

So for me, the Panda Planner was a tool that supported the work I was doing with listening to the podcast and journaling. And I love the daily part of it because you write down three things that you're grateful for. And I know how important gratitude is, you've taught me gratitude and that is, gosh, that's life changing, 100% life changing. So you write down three things that you're grateful for, a daily affirmation, three things you're looking forward to, you're excited about.

And then the five things that, this is all you do today, it's successful. That's it, just five things. It could be, I'm gonna drink coffee today. I'm gonna fold my laundry.

You know, whatever it is, it can be simple, big stuff, but you're saying this is what I'm able to achieve today. And you always feel like you're getting something done when you do that and it's not overwhelming. I actually saw on your Instagram the other day, the Panda Planner and I was like, oh, I need to get myself one of those. It does look amazing.

And I agree, it has all of the things that I believe in and think it should be part of a daily routine if you really put some effort into personal development. So I love hearing how you have used it. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so each month you create a habit.

So my first month, the habit was to use it because that is one of the things that don't see you is that you have to get into the habit of actually using this every day. So that was my first habit for the month. And then it becomes something where it's this ritual where, oh, God, I need this, I need this for myself. I need my morning cup of coffee and I need to start my day with, and it's a mindfulness activity in a way also.

So for me, that was really powerful and something that I recommend for anybody that's got some really big thing coming up in their life. I want to hear more about where you're at now. So that was kind of getting to America, starting to contemplate and prepare for standing on your own two feet, for lack of a better way to put it. But obviously you have the responsibility of your kiddos and working out the financial stuff.

And like you said, now I know you're in grad school. How has your life developed in these last couple of years? Oh, gosh. So with that planner, when I planned out my life for the sixth or nine months, I knew I had to have a career.

That would be financially secure and that was really important to me, stability. And I wanted to do something that I was passionate about. And I remember I had this declaration I made literally to the universe. I said, I don't know how it's gonna happen.

I don't know when or where it looks like or how this is going to come. But I know I have to work with children and mental health. I just, I knew it. And life is interesting, right?

When you make that declaration, which I now believe in so much in the manifesting that it comes together, your co-creator with God, which that is a topic that I learned from you in a different podcast episode that you had with. I think her name was Elise. She was the one that did the vision. Yeah, it's the vision board.

When you realize that you're a co-creator, that it's not just sitting there and waiting for something to happen and being hopeful. It's meeting in the middle and saying, gosh, I want this to happen, but I also need something higher. It's bigger than me to help make that happen. And when you pay attention to, I think it's you, are you the one that says the Winx?

Yes, the soul Winx. The soul Winx, yeah. And so that's when you communicate with those soul Winx and you meet that in the middle, that's where gosh magic happens. And so I have made this declaration that this is what I'm going to do.

And it, long story short, it led me to, it was really a miraculous way in how it happened that in Germany, I met a woman who was a board certified behavior analyst. She was the only English speaking board certified behavior analyst in the entire country and she happened to live within 30 minutes of me. Of course you met it, Becca. I just have to say, of course you met it because this is where it's like divine intervention, right?

Like that just things you couldn't even have tried to organize if you had gone out of your way. It's perfect. That's exactly what it was because also the moment that I met her, she was getting ready to move back to the States in six months. And it was that period of time that I got to know her, I became a registered behavior technician, which you need to have a board certified behavior analyst assess you on and sign off on that and get experience for.

And so I had that period of time with her right before she left before I was moving to Colorado to get this done and to get some experience with her. And she answered everything about behavior analysis. And when I found out what behavior analysis is, I was like, oh my God, this is it. This is what I need to do.

That makes sense. I think you're familiar with Stephen Hayes and Act and that was part of why I really got into behavior analysis too, is because it's leaking out on the science part of it. But we have our external behaviors that we can observe and measure and then there's the internal things, the mentalistic. Well, that's why I wanted to go into behavior analysis because I see that we have this direction going towards putting those two together and I just fell in love with it.

And so I had to finish my bachelor's before I could do my master's program. My goal was to, okay, I'm gonna become a registered behavior technician, I'm going to finish my bachelor's degree. I took 15 classes in nine months. Well, yeah, I could tell you can do as many classes as you can in 12 weeks.

And I wasn't working and I was probably spending 60 to 80 hours a week just doing tons of like research and papers and everything. So I finished my bachelor's, I got that certification. And then I knew that when we moved back to Colorado, I had two months to find a job and kind of get settled in. And this is where the vision board comes in and that podcast with, am I saying her name right, Elise?

Yeah, it's Elise Santile. Okay, yeah, that podcast with her where she talked about her vision board and it sounds so like, yeah, whatever. It sounds really fluffy and I thought it was really cool but I didn't think that it would be something that I could actually do. And I decided, you know what, I'm just gonna see.

I'm gonna try this vision board thing. She was so convincing about the things that she was able to manifest into her life and I'm like, okay, you know, she's on Kate's podcast and she, this worked for her. I'm gonna, what do I have to lose? And it's a cool process because you really get to get clear on what it is you want in your life.

And I created sections and I made a journaling experience. So I knew, okay, in this area, career and finance, this is what I want to have in love and relationship. This is what I want to have in family. This is what I wanna have and in self love.

This is what I want. And every single thing on my vision board manifested within six months. And that was incredible. So, Bika, what did you bring into your life?

Obviously a job, you found a way. I found a way. So in the career that I'm in right now, the positions, you usually have really unstable hours. You just work evenings, usually have to work weekends.

You know, hours aren't guaranteed. Usually there's not a whole lot of benefits. So I was kind of worried on how I was going to do this with kids and my schedule and everything, but I found this is that a little soul link thing where the I waited and I applied to at least 10 different companies before I found where I'm at now in the Shandy Clinic. And I actually had started a job at a different company, which was also really incredible.

Our value is really aligned. And I was working there for about a week. And I got a call from the Shandy Clinic because they wanted me to work at a different clinic. And this is where my boundaries came in.

I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna drive 40 minutes to work at that clinic. It sounds like an amazing opportunity. And I really like your company, but I really need to be working somewhere closer. That was me having a boundary and not that perfect thing.

So I took the job with the other company, worked there for a week. I got a call from the hiring manager at Shandy Clinic saying, hey, we got a position that's a little bit closer to you. Would you be interested? And I told him no, because it started at this other company and I really liked them and I didn't want to just leave them.

I felt really bad about it. But there was this moment where about four days in, I said, no, I have to honor this. I really wasn't interested in that company of the clinic. It was more stable.

And so I gave him a call back and I said, hey, I'm interested in the position of it still available. And he said, oh man, well, you didn't hear back from you. And so we actually, we failed at however, we do have a position at the clinic that I actually wanted to be at at the time. And I'm like, and can you start in a week?

And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so he was to the benefits guaranteed hours, paid time off, like tuition reimbursement, like everything that I couldn't even believe that this job was happening. And it's still an incredible opportunity. I work in a clinic where it's not just behavior analysts.

We work with speech-language pathologists and physical therapists and occupational therapists. So I get so much experience with other disciplines that are connected and work with some of the most intelligent people that I'm gaining experience from and good, hard and warm people. And then the clients that I serve are, it's just everything. That was one of the most powerful things.

I put on the gym board that I wanted good benefits, good hours and to work with the best people in the field. And that happened. That's amazing. That is amazing.

And also I love the way you mentioned the boundaries thing. Like I know that a previous version of me would have been like, oh, I will bend, I will flex. And no, it's so much more powerful when we honor ourselves, right? And yeah, that is so good.

I love how that all just came to be. When you reflect, Becca, on how you have transformed. And I think transformed is a fair word to use over these past years. Like, what are your reflections?

Can you even believe where you're at these days? No, it's surreal. And the reflection is, I think, that growth is a continuum. So it's not just this magical healing that happens.

I did a lot of work, but I'm still now faced with a different kind of challenge. And that never goes away. But what happened over the last few years is that I got completely broken. My whole entire shield and masks and everything that was around my outer self was completely shattered and broken to where it's like, OK, here I am at the very raw core.

And when you do that, you get to rebuild those layers in a way that's healthier and how you want it to be, if that makes sense. So I think what happens is that as you grow up, you have your center, your soul and who you are. And then life shapes you and experience this shape you. And it starts to create these layers.

And the layers are not necessarily the ones that you would have wanted to create for yourself. For example, for me, it's like I'm not having a father figure in my life or having relationships that were unhealthy for me. And these layers that get built over the things that happen to you, you don't have control over those layers. But when you get completely shattered and you have this moment that breaks you down, it is such a curse in that moment.

But it can become a blessing when you decide to slowly rebuild those layers based on who you want to become. And I think that's what I've done. And I'm still doing. I think the layers that I've done work on are boundaries, self-love, and being able to manifest and believe in myself.

These are all things I never ever had before that I have now. And it's been a lot of work. And it still continues to be work. Boundaries are not easy.

That's probably one of the most difficult things to work on. That is really, really hard. So yeah, I think whenever I reflect those are kind of the things I see where I've changed. Becca, I am so glad that we got to have this conversation.

Because there's just so much that in your story just makes my heart so warm. And I know that there are going to be so many listeners that can resonate with your story and see themselves in it. Awesome. OK, so let's switch it up.

And you can start asking me some questions, Becca. By the way, I'm a little bit nervous. Because I have no idea what Becca is going to ask me. I told her to just ask me anything.

So here we go. Yes, here we go. Well, first question is just honestly, it's holiday right now. And I wanted to know if you have any family traditions that you do for the holiday.

I think it's a great question. So if you guys have been listening for Eva to the start of the podcast, I tell you a story right back at the very start. And I converted to Judaism when I was pregnant with my first son. So we celebrate Hanukkah.

And that is coming up next week, I think, actually. So we celebrate Hanukkah and our household. When I am with my family, which I can't be this year, because they're still in New Zealand, we celebrate Christmas with them. And so those are our family traditions.

I am a little bit this year that we can't go home to spend Christmas with my family and my boys have noticed it too. And so it's a little bit like my husband and I see it. It's a little bit of a dark season. We're in Minnesota as well, and it's literally dark.

So we have hung up a hell of a lot of holiday lights around our house to just put a little more sparkle into these days right now. So that's what we do. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, you talk about how you converted to Judaism.

Do you see that right? Judaism. Yeah, that works. OK.

What led you to that decision? I was, I had a phobia that was created, I will say, by religious teachings when I was only seven years old. So when I was seven years old, basically a Bible in schools teacher in New Zealand, I went to a public school, but we had Bible in schools teachers, came and gave us a lesson, which you think they might have edited or watched what she was going to say to a bunch of seven year olds. But I've always been a super, super sensitive soul, let's just say.

And she mentioned revelations and tried teaching revelations to a seven year old. Basically, I came out of that discussion with a phobia around thunder and lightning, because what I took with my little seven year old brain was that the world was going to end. There was going to be thunder and lightning. And anyone who did not believe in Jesus was going to hell.

And my dad didn't go to church. And so I thought I was going to be separated from him for eternity. And so when I think about why I chose to convert to Judaism, one of the biggest things for me was that I don't believe there should be fear in religious teachings. And that obviously, and clearly comes from my personal story.

And that was debilitating for me as a young child, and even as a teen. And Judaism doesn't have that. Judaism teaches that you should be a good person, because you should be a good person. There is no promise of an afterlife.

There is no promise of eternal glory. There's no promise of God giving you a high five for doing good things. You just should because you should. And that personally really, really resonated with me.

So I married. My husband is Saul, and he is Jewish. So I wouldn't have come across Judaism without having been married to him, because New Zealand, it's like, you're a no Jews in New Zealand. So I was introduced to Judaism because of my husband.

But then once I understood more about the teachings, they just landed with me. And so that's why I made the decision to convert. Oh my gosh, I love learning this side of you a deeper. And I resonate with what you were saying as a child.

That's, I've learned a term, and I think this happens a lot still. And it's spiritual abuse, where you use spirituality and religion to instill fear and control. And as a seven year old, that is freaking terrifying. It was freaking terrifying, right?

Like, even as I talk about it now as a 38 year old woman sitting here, I can feel the fear in my body as I discuss that. You know, like, that it was a true phobia that I still can physically feel in my body just talking about it with you right now. And in that moment, that short experience of that person sharing that, that was trauma. And that trauma really changed who we are during those.

Well, not, I don't know that changed who you are, but I changed your feelings and getting anxiety. And that's where I also resonate with you, is because with spirituality, it was always a turn off. And I didn't want to go anywhere near it because it was how you described. It wasn't aligned with what I actually believe in my heart.

So yeah, I think of what I would say is in terms of how do I spend the holidays. So if I am like checking a box on which religion I am, I check that I'm Jewish. But the reality is, I mean, I'm not a great practicing at anything type of person. I'm a spiritual person.

The practicing element, I'm not a religious person. I am a spiritual person. And so I may be officially Jewish, but you can tell from the podcast that I believe that there are so many different paths to our spirituality. And there are so many different paths to the magic that we cannot see.

And whichever path works for you is where you should go. Yeah, I love that your podcast helped me connect with spirituality and that relationship with your higher power, God, however you want to define it, is so intimate. And I don't have you ever struggled with intimacy, like with relationships? Oh, yeah.

Hell yeah. So you talked about codependency. I was a very, I would say just didn't have a strong sense of self in my late teens and early twenties. And I was definitely very codependent.

I looked for love outside of myself and had some unhealthy relationships and lost myself, to be honest, came out in my like out of my early twenties, really very unclear on who the hell I was or what the hell I wanted. And that massively affects intimacy. I would say that if you don't know yourself, it's very hard to have that vulnerability and true intimacy with another. And I've been married now for, how long have we been married?

I've been with my husband for 12 years. We've been married for close to 11, with a married for 10. And the other thing I would say is that the first years of my marriage were the hardest years of my marriage, because we were learning how to be as two individuals who both had opinions, needs and desires and find that balance of how to communicate. Because talking about have I had problems with intimacy, I used to be the person that would not communicate how I felt.

I would suck it up, build resentment, rather than have a different conversation. I would sweep it under the carpet until I got pissed off enough that I would just break up with the person. And so for me and my marriage, I had to retrain a lot of those habits and turn towards the fire, if you like, and have the uncomfortable and difficult conversations that were part of making sure that I was seen and that I was making sure my voice was at the table, because I couldn't just bail on the marriage. I have kids and that wasn't my, in teaching.

So my previous relationship coping skills of like pretend it's not an issue, pretend it's not an issue. Okay, now I am done. I realize they weren't going to work in a marriage. And so I'm so grateful that I am married to the guy I am married to because it's been a beautiful journey of us becoming stronger as a couple for these last 10 years, for sure.

That segles into another question that I had for you is how old did you know your husband was the one? So I have one of these like super cliche, just talk about soulwinks, like just new situations and really just new from the first night I meet him, which I don't speak a lot about because I think it's just a really unusual situation to be honest. Basically, I meet my husband in New Zealand. He's American.

Obviously in New Zealand, and we weren't living in the same city. We were introduced by a friend and I kissed him the first night we met. And as soon as I kissed him, it was like, it was like an energy jolt in my body of knowing this that I can't even put into words. Like it was like movie magic.

There should have been some stupid soundtrack in the background, so be. And so it was just from there on and it just kind of has just has been. So it's bizarre, but I would say that I think that there is no doubt that we have a soul connection and I do believe in past lives and there's just no doubt in my mind that this is not the first lifetime that we've had together because the knowingness when I first met him, like I'd known him for either and I'd known him for five hours was bizarre. And I'm like anything I've ever felt before.

That's so special and amazing. And that's a very lucky thing to get to experience. That's beautiful. I love it.

It goes into another question I have for you. I know you ask this to all of your guests, but what does the soul mean to you? Oh, that is so good that you're putting it back on me because I was not expecting this. I really like asking other people this question.

What does the soul mean to me? I think that the soul is us in all truth. I think that the soul is our true selves. I think it is that consciousness behind all of the noise that comes with living in a human body with the mind cheddar, with the physicality, with the emotions.

There is this deep knowingness that will go on. That's my best attempt at what I believe the soul is. Yeah, I love that. That's a powerful and tangible way to express something that's really abstract.

I really appreciate that. Okay, next question. You see an incoming call on your phone coming from Kate three years ago. Why is she calling and what would you tell her?

You know, I was just stuck on that. You see an incoming call because secret, I hate talking on the phone. So I see an incoming call and I'm probably not going to answer it. I am that person.

It just like looks at my phone and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to talk right now. Okay. I will answer a call from myself from three years ago. Okay.

Or it can be a text. Maybe a text is I'm a text. I'm like, don't call me. Text me because then you have time to think about it.

Whereas with the phone call, you're kind of put on the spot, right? I'm just totally a textor as well. I feel like it's kind of hilarious that I have a podcast because I feel like written word is way better for me. Can you say the question again?

Because I got so distracted bigger. Okay. You have an incoming call from Kate three years ago working a text and what is she contacting you for? And what would you tell her?

Oh, so me three years ago. I would want reassurance. So I think of myself three years ago. So let's go to the end of 2017.

What I didn't know was that in July, 2018, I was going to be diagnosed with breast cancer. And so I wouldn't have known that yet. And I feel like in December, 2017, I was, I was doing everything that I do now in my business. There wasn't a lot that would be different in terms of the services I provide or that kind of stuff.

But I am so much more confident as a person sitting here three years later than I was at that point. I was still in many ways, I think, trying to hustle for my worthiness and prove myself, like, prove I'm good at this and prove that I don't know what, just prove something to someone. And so I think that that three years ago Kate would have been ringing me for reassurance. And I think what I would probably say to her from this vantage point would be that there's going to be some twists and turns coming up.

I don't want you to be worried, but I want you to know that it's going to be okay. And that anything that is going to happen to you is ultimately there just to teach you what you need to learn and help you become an even more powerful teacher and guide and human just a more grounded and empathic human. And so you're going to be learning a lot over the next few years, but you're going to be okay. I think is what I would say to that version of myself.

Oh my gosh. I just, I can imagine how, how if you were actually able to get that message back then, how that would have been so reassuring. And that after you went through that experience that you did end up getting that reassurance you had to go through the journey to learn that. But gosh, that's, that's really, that's powerful.

That's a good, I wish we could actually do that. Yeah, right. I mean, breast cancer for sure, it stripped me down. And what I would say is I didn't expect the emotional backlash that I experienced after the physical healing.

But the emotional element is where, you know, the emotional, the psychological, the making sense of the pieces has been the most amazing experience that I feel like I'm really starting to really just integrate now to a half years later. That's awesome. Yeah, it takes time to process the, like I said earlier, the curse as a blessing. It takes, it takes time in a process, but it sounds like you really took away a lot from that experience and it helped make you a better version of you.

For sure. I definitely think it did. Okay. This is one that I really would like to hear your thoughts on, especially right now with social media and young girls.

How do you define beauty? Oh, when you talk about social media and young girls. Okay. So for me, beauty is absolutely nothing to do with what is outside of us.

You know, there is that quote, if we could see souls rather than faces, what would we see of each other? And I aim to be a beautiful soul. That is absolutely what I aim for. And I think if we could teach that lesson more to our girls, oh, I wish I, I wish I had someone highlighting that for me as a teenager.

But what I did have instead was a pile of girlfriend magazines from back in the 90s when I was a teenager and pictures of what perfection in physical form was supposed to look like. And that made me judge myself so harshly. And truth, like if you meet me, because I'd be nosy about this, I'm five seven and I'm like 130 pounds. Like I'm not, I'm not a big human.

I'm like, and yet I, I thought I was wrong in every way as a teenager. And I just look back at a teenager version of myself and I want to cry and just be like, oh my gosh, why cannot, why can't you see the beautiful person that is standing in front of you? Like why, why do you see all of the imperfections and not all of the ways in which you are perfect? And so I'm worried that social media is the new version of the girlfriend magazines that I was reading when I was a 16 year old that convinced me that somehow I didn't measure up.

And I think, I think that's dangerous. I think when we don't have the maturity that it's very easy to fall into those traps of unrealistic comparison. So I say that to Sam Glade, I don't have a teenage girl is in bigger. I'm your obviously living this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you described that, oh, why can't you just love yourself?

I think, gosh, even, even a few years ago that who I was and there's a lot of women that even like in their 40, 50, 60s that have that it's, there's such a strong value put on beauty and worth. One of the things when I talk about my breast cancer journey, one of the things I've really struggled with. So I ended up having bilateral mistake to me with reconstruction. And so, yeah, it's called reconstruction, but that means I have breast implants.

And I always said that I would never alter my body in any way that I would love my body for what it was. And so I really struggled with the idea that how can I say I will love my body the way it is, but now I'm going to get breast implants. And truth be told, I was the person that at times had been like, why does a woman feel like she needs breast implants to feel beautiful? And why does a woman feel like she has to have Botox to feel gorgeous?

And that was like a reckoning for me because, yeah, I get to call my reconstruction, but I could have chosen not to have reconstruction. I could have chosen to have a completely flat chest and I didn't do that. And so the other thing I would say is I have softened in my belief. It's okay.

It's okay to do something that makes you feel beautiful as long as you are not putting your whole worth on your beauty, if that makes sense. Absolutely. It's like you become humbled on the rigidness that you kind of had. And it was a value though.

There was a value, but it also signifies that our values can evolve and they're not set in stone. So it's like you still honored your value of wanting to love yourself, but you were saying that you can sometimes wanting to feel beautiful in these ways is honoring, loving yourself. And that's okay. Yeah.

Yeah. If there's a balance there, you know, it's interesting because I go to after my divorce, I started putting myself first. I never did before. And I started getting my hair done and getting facials and I become friends with these people and the doctor that I go to, I do, I love Botox.

Oh my God, I swear by it. I absolutely love Botox. And the woman I go to, we're just like, great friends. And we talk about like inner beauty and outer beauty.

Yeah, there's definitely a balance that can be had there. And I think that's really cool that you found that. And I am fearful of social media and the filters and not just for girls, but for boys and and boys expecting that that's what a girl should look like and be. It's very harmful.

And hopefully that conversation can start really happening more directed towards the youth and getting it to resonate with them that hey, this is not actually real life. And there's actually some good influencers out there that put out their like, here's what I look like in the morning, here's what I look like when I make up on and both are real and both are good. I really appreciate some of those people. For sure.

One last question that I have, more simple one. What are some songs on your playlist? Oh, that is so good. My power anthem is Alicia Keys.

This girl is on fire. So I play that every time I need like a pick me up and feel strong. I also have Sarah Brallis brave because everything I do, I do, it's like to someone recently. Everything I do, I do shit scared.

So being brave and courage values I have to embody constantly. What else is on my playlist? The one song that will get me dancing every time I hear it is that song shut up and dance with me. You play that after I've had two glasses of wine, I'm going to make you dance.

And I don't even like dancing. So it's hilarious that that song makes me dance every time. Another song that I have been listening to more recently, look, I'm going to pick up my phone and then I'll be able to tell you more things is, oh my gosh, look, oh, I've got just that. Here's your 2020 wrapped up dismiss right now.

Thank you, Spotify. What is on my, I should just look at my most played songs. My 2020 playlist, I, here we go. These are the songs I've been listening to.

The song Grace by Rachel Platon, I just adore that song. It's been part of my healing journey. And I love the song A Blaze by Alana Smarreste as well for all your mama's out there. The lyrics say that it's our job to keep the light in our baby's eyes ablaze, which makes me super happy.

Oh, and Michael Frankie and Spearhead, this world is so fucked up, but I ain't giving up on it. Great song. Like this world is so fucked up, but I ain't ever given up on it. It's great.

I'm going to have to add that one for sure. Oh, Becca, thank you so much. This has been so fun. I love the fact that the question that almost dumped me the most was my own question.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was cool too. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I enjoyed having it with Becca.

Goodness. I could have chatted away for so much longer. As I mentioned at the start of the interview, Becca is a relationship and behavior analyst. And so I wouldn't hold you to go and find her.

Check out BeccaLivesWell on Instagram or you can look out for the Miss LivesWell group. Over on Facebook. Your support of Here to the Drive means so very much to me. Those ratings and reviews, if you have not done so already, please, it would mean so much if you could take a moment to do that in iTunes or wherever you listen as it helps the show get seen.

I also want to say that we'll be taking a break over the holiday season. Interestingly enough, did you know that you guys don't listen as well during holiday periods? It's always fascinated me. We'll be taking a break and back at the start of January with new content for you to take you into 2021.

Ready for that, right? Bring it on 2021. In the meantime though, if you would like some resources to keep you thinking forward, I do have a life planning guide available on my website for free download. And it's a really great end of year, kind of recap, refocus and intention setting for going into 2021.

You can head to thrive.how forward slash freebie to grab that. That's F-R-E-E-B-I-E. Freebie. Oh, I just realized I'm signing off for 2020.

Catch you later this year. We will be back on the other side of that New Year's Eve Bell and looking forward to 2021 and sharing it all with you. In the meantime, beautiful people. Keep thriving.

Keep thriving.