152: Persuasion, Part 2

This is the second part of a series about persuasion, in which Denver addresses tools and approaches that should and should not be used, what to do next if you fail to persuade, human tendencies to consider in efforts to persuade and how to discern the “teachings of men” versus those of a true teacher with a message from God. Ether chapter 4, verse 11 (I’m going to the last sentence of it—Ether 4, verse 11): For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good. And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am. See, “he that will not believe my words will not believe me.” It’s a real simple test. Did the words you heard originate from God? You should be able to tell that. You should be able to say, sitting and listening, “I hear God in that.” And then whoever it is that is speaking, it doesn’t matter if she’s an elderly widow—it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if he’s the stake president—it doesn’t matter. You have to hear Him in the words that come. And then, it ceases to be the woman or the man who is standing in front of you, and it becomes the Lord. And the person is simply… I mean, good for them; they resonated with Him, and they caught on to something. Turn back to Moroni chapter 7; it’s the same thing. Moroni chapter 7, verse 16: For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man… Wow, now there’s another thought. The Spirit of Christ given to everyone. You have a link to Christ. By virtue of the fact that you’re here, you have a link to Christ. OK? The Spirit of Christ is given to every man [and in this sense, “man” means mankind; it’s not sexist], that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him. The difference between persuasion and contention: Persuasion largely does not happen because you overcome the resistance with argument and contention. Persuasion comes by opening up an idea and letting it enter into the heart of the man or the woman, and then letting God take over and get the growth inside them. “Contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, who stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. Behold this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away."(3 Nephi 11:29-30) He is saying, don't contend, don't make people mad, don't confront them, take a step back from that and I’ll tell you what my doctrine is. And then, "this is my doctrine, ...I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me." (3 Nephi 11:32) Every bit of that is internal to the proselyte, every bit of that. Preach, teach, exhort, expound, contend, bitch them into conversion; you’ve ignored what His doctrine is. It’s internal to them. It goes on with Him and them. We facilitate but He is the one who ultimately becomes the object of their worship, the object of their adoration. It’s like God lights a candle inside of you. You can hold the candle up and you can give people light but if they don't get their own candle, get their own flame, they’re still dead. They aren't alive. Your kids are going to make mistakes. It’s not your job to force them to not make the mistake. It’s your job to counsel them and to let them have the experience by which your counsel makes sense and is vindicated. You hope the mistakes that they make are not too serious. But even if they’re serious and they involve lifelong struggles, it’s their right to choose—and it’s your obligation to teach and to persuade and then to rejoice when they return after they’re tired of filling their bellies with the husks that the pigs are fed. It’s your job to go and greet them and put a robe on their shoulder and put a ring on their hand and to kill the fatted calf. It's not your job to beat them and to chain them to the farm, so they can’t go away and behave foolishly. They need to know that your bonds of love towards them are stronger than death itself. They need to know that they will endure in your heart into eternity. And not only your children but one another—because we all make mistakes. Do not exercise dominion; do not exercise compulsion. Exercise long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, and kindness. Some of the biggest disasters come when you do not give people the right to choose freely, and you attempt to coerce them. Be wise, be prudent, be someone that they would respect and they would listen to. JOHN: So you are calling for a more, not only just inclusive, but sort of a bold brand of Mormonism that isn’t so scared, that isn’t so afraid to be inclusive and have open dialogue and to even support disagreement or debate, but a robust discourse within the walls of the Church, right? DENVER: Yes. In fact, that statement that we quote, about “giving apostles and prophets... that we all may come to the unity of the faith”, that Paul wrote, that statement is not so that in a police state we can cast away those with whom we have disagreements. That is a statement about persuasion. That is a statement about preaching and coming to a unity of faith through a lively exchange of discussion, preaching, exhorting, expounding, until we all say, “Okay, I’ve heard enough now to make my mind up and I’m on board with...” or, “I haven’t heard enough, I disagree with, I still retain this view,” but you know what, someone who walks in, who has a different view than me, if I listen to them they will either persuade me that I have left something out of the equation I need to think about, or they will raise questions in my mind that will send me back to looking and studying and trying to come to peace with the issue. But what I shouldn’t do, in my view, is to say, “Wait a minute, you’re saying something I disagree with. Get away from me. You are toxic. Get away from me. My mind must be protected from what you have to say.” But again, this goes all the way back to that beginning when I said I came into the faith from a polemical environment. I’m okay with the fact that people I love and respect – my own mother, my own sister – think my religion utterly false and worse than that, corrupt. Almost invariably, the existence of control tends to lead, invariably—to lead, inexorably—to abuse. Because if all you have with which to work is persuasion, you’re gonna find out that there are a lot of people who you will never persuade. There are a lot of people who will never get aboard. Therefore, if you’re limited to persuasion alone, you have to afford people the freedom to reject, to be contrary, to raise their hand and make a contrasting point, and not have someone say, “Your point isn’t welcome here. You’re not doing what you need to do!” I think there are a lot of discontent people. I try to articulate what it was that the Restoration was originally intended to accomplish and look like, and I believe there are a number of people that look at what I have written and the source material that I draw from and who reach the same conclusion. No one has to accept anything that I’ve said, and I don’t want a following. What I’m trying to do is get to the bottom of the truth, and if it persuades someone, then fine; we’re in agreement. If it doesn’t, then I’m interested in hearing the disagreement. I’m interested in hearing what the contrary view is. You have compassion for all those around you who are ignorant. If you think you know a little more than them, then use gentleness and meekness to persuade them. Sometimes, what you try to persuade them of is going to offend them. Couple it with your own testimony of the truth. Don't let them simply go away offended. Let them know that when you give offense (and you surely will give offense), let them know that you did it because of your love for them, your love of God, and your faith in the things that God is doing. When you offend, do it kindly and while bearing testimony of the truth and with the compassion that should hail from a position of greater light and truth or intelligence. They don't know what they're doing. They don't understand it yet. So help them. The atonement isn't like Tinkerbell spreading some magic dust that will make you rise up. The atonement will erase your sins and mistakes, but you must rise up. You must acquire those virtues. The glory of God is intelligence. And repentance requires you to acquire that intelligence—that glory of God. And you acquire it by the things that you do in His name and for His sake. And those that are here with you in need, they represent Him. And when you do it to even the least of them, He will credit that as having been done for Him. And no good deed will be gone unnoticed with Him. He even notices when the sparrows fall. So is He not going to notice when your knee bends with compassion, praying for His mercy for someone that has offended you? And when you pray for those who have offended you, do you think for one moment that that doesn't change your own heart? The reason to rejoice and be exceedingly glad when they “say all manner of evil against you falsely” is because it affords you the opportunity, with compassion (like our Lord,...