We went to church last night at your church here in Alabama, and it is a good vibe. I really like what's going on there I like it like it's really cool. So you went to class. Yes, so Vance was teaching an Old Testament survey class It was excellent It's gotta be weird for you because you do Bible all the time But for me I got to learn things and I got to like I don't know I'm not saying you didn't learn things But for me, it's like sitting in class in school, you know for you It's probably like a review for me.
It was like some of it was hitting me for the first time which was really cool Yeah It was very much a classroom setting with a well-prepared outline and a sharp guy who clearly has been around the material for much longer than I have Just conversant about it in and out of the academic and into the personal. It was great It was like an old-school college class and everybody wanted to be there. I thought you did a super job. It was awesome Yeah, it was fun, but the vibe at your church on a Wednesday night and that's a whole thing It's like a campus and not like a megachurch campus But like a an academic learning center for all levels of life all happening at once and just a ton of great people and great interactions Is it was really good really cool?
Yeah, I love it And that's why we love that specific church so much is it feels like a a place to go to learn and think and so it doesn't feel like Oh, you know a lot of times when you think about church you're like, oh, we're gonna go to the place and we're gonna feel the things Yes, and but this is not about feeling it's about your your mind and engaging and bringing your mind to the table and be like Okay, is this true? My favorite thing that Vance was talking about is he laid out He's like hey, we've got questions about the Bible and we should actually ask those because if the Bible is what it says It is then it can handle that and I like that he showed multiple theories about ways to interpret certain things And he's like hey doesn't matter how you interpret it We're not gonna get angry each other and break unity over this But these are how different people think about it and if you were raised a certain way you might think that if you're raised a different way You might think this and I like that even admitted. He's like this is kind of where I'm at but whatever I thought it was cool. Yeah, he handled all that really well And it did remind me of the healthiest moments I had in an academic setting where absolute adherence to one very narrow Sliver of ideas was not required, but just a certain degree of esteem with which you treat your classmates and people in the hall and professors is expected Yeah, it was neat.
It was kind of a throwback It kind of surprised me and I learned a ton of stuff you were saying like that's weird Why would that be weird? It's that huge book? It's the most influential thing ever there a million layers of depth to it I'm scratching the surface, man. Yeah, that was great.
Yeah, it was fun. Thanks for going in really appreciate it Here's what stood out to me in addition to that though. Okay, walking through the halls seeing people interact There was so much subtle good that happened in that stretch people who you wouldn't figure would be hanging out People who are in totally different places in life just forced dumped into the hallways like a passing period to be clear This place where we're hanging out. It didn't have a church feel at all It's we went to two different academic wings.
It felt like a community college Yeah, almost and then like a middle school in another part or high school and the passing period happens the Bell metaphorically rings Everybody dumps out into the hallways everybody's interacting and there was one interaction that stood out to me in particular You clearly have rapport with a bunch of your kids friends There's one kid comes walking down the hall and you walked up and you did the old guy routine with him Oh, yeah, I was like hey guys on your shirt get looked down, but he's pretty smart kid. Oh, yeah This was amazing. No, he just made defiant eye contact with you. Yeah, so basically He's one of my son's friends And so I do this to all the kids to make them feel like oh, you know, you're trying to trick me But I'm smarter than you and so that's the routine and like once mr.
Destin can no longer trick you somehow you've graduated and you're better than mr. Destin that's the deal I reported it a shirt and I was like hey got someone your shirt Just like I said look that means like not falling for that mr. Destin's is great and then we went to the other side of the kid Just walks away. That's it.
That's it 10 minutes past talking with other people hanging out. Whatever. It's over you lost Sorry pal So we go to the other side of the church and we're picking up my my other son and that same kid walks up And I don't even know what I said I said something about how good he how smart he is and how he's grown man this guy right here Man, he is really because I was talking to his older brother like this guy right here He's got it together like he knows what's up all these other high school kids gathered around as well making you know Just say hello getting to know people and you gave him a really nice compliment and then you did the thing Well, I just said yeah except he spilled all over his shirt at dinner And then he looks down he looks straight down and I go bloop And he goes whoa like his brothers like I've never seen an assist before that was incredible so yeah, thank you for that Well, the bigger point is okay. He beat you the first time around right obviously ridiculous game And there's no actual losing in this but he passed the test second time around.
I mean, it's not fair We we tag teamed him we did and he lost he did and he smiled and he laughed at himself He did the bashful slump the shoulders thing and as a result no one mocked him no one gave him a hard time Yeah, it was just you know took the playful L understood it means acceptance and I thought it was great Well, they've all done that mr. Dustin has you know, they beat mr. Dustin and I come back and I beat them It's kind of a thing they just kind of take it and they're like, oh, you got me Yeah, oh the squirt gun game all of that stuff I like the way the culture of that community is building in W's and L's and how to take them in public and in private Because I think that's gonna pay off when you guys have actual things that come up I mean you got a community of hundreds of people there who are heavily invested in each other's families each other's I mean, you just all know each other you live in this really great community together It's a very diverse community top to bottom economically ethnically It's a cool place I love being here and that church is a little microcosm of that and I feel like watching all those little I mean I'm pushing the metaphor here a bit But all of those little social W's and L's from last night walking around just being there together All of that stuff is gonna pay off when you need it more because it doesn't matter if it's a public school university a workplace a sports team a book club a Circle of friends a church it doesn't matter what it is If you have a group of people you hang out with and you decide that you're gonna go through thick and thin and you're gonna be in the deep Water you're gonna be around each other a lot You will eventually get crossways with each other and then having that banked equity of wins and losses together It's gonna pay off you're gonna be able to get through things that otherwise it'd be a lot harder to to get through I super enjoyed watching that dynamic play out, but then we go outside and you're youngest daughter Do I've known since that means she's just a little yeah a little blob of not talking and I mean you your sons and me and She's got all the energy she wants to run around in the lawn there and so you chase her down She comes and gets me I chase her down and the game of tag it rolls over into the truck now tag doesn't work super great in a truck No, it's kind of easy. Yeah, it's really easy.
Yeah. Yeah, and so we're basically just Tagging around the truck one at a time, right and I can see her little wheels turn them back there So how do I get off this treadmill as a winner? So she reaches into the front seat when I'm sitting in the passenger seat tags me and then I tag you and you start to reach to the backseat and she says I quit It was amazing. I mean well the game's over.
Yeah, let's just have whoever was it whenever the game happened and be the loser Was it yeah? I don't think it was me was it? No, it was me it was you dad you were the loser is cute And you see what she's trying to do you chased it with a story and we were all distracted and busy And I only half caught this story, but it seemed rad Would you revisit the story that you followed that up with? Yeah, absolutely second grade play in checkers with daniel One of my best friends back then daniel and uh daniel was a goofy kid.
He had all the jokes He was really funny and he said tell us about what his business plans were for later in life It was hilarious and not gonna repeat it but daniel had ideas and we're playing checkers one day During free time or whatever and I get daniel pin down where he's got one checker left on the king row at the very very back And I have one checker that's directly apart from it So if he moves to the left or if he moves to the right, I'm just gonna jump him and I'm gonna win He has checker mate. Yeah checker mate. He's got one move left and I'm going to I'm gonna win And he just looks up at me and says I quit and I said you can't you can't quit Like you gotta make that last movie. He's like, no, no, I'm not even playing anymore I don't have to do anything because I'm not even in the game anymore.
I was like daniel You can't just do that like I worked all this time to beat you. You can't quit he goes too I'm not even later. He just let you and I just remember thinking in my 40-something-year-old brain There's an eight-year-old boy with an unfinished checker game going on daniel quit. All right.
Well before we move forward I've got I've got one of these little Checkerboard cracker barrel games right here. They're a little triangle with the golf pegs Yeah, it's not a full checkerboard per se. It doesn't quite count But I'm gonna have the white ones here be you yeah, I'm gonna be this orange one here Yeah, I feel like you need closure. Oh, you're gonna let me close that game out.
It's still sitting out there man So it's my turn right. Yeah, so I'm I'm black. That's not gonna work Why not the way you have them set up you're gonna jump me and I can't jump you no I can't I can't jump you I'm gonna have to move here Oh because like my thumb's over there. Oh, we're playing checkers got it.
Yeah, okay. Go ahead. So I'm gonna uh gosh darn it eight-year-old Destin sandlin. Okay, Daniel I'm not happy about it, but I have to concede you've played an excellent match of checkers Thanks And you've left me no options and as much as it strikes at my pride and my dignity and my sense of self I'm unable to do anything other than to make this one concessionator remove to right here And now I I give you your well-earned a jump there's and That felt so good.
Thank you for that And I bow my head to you as one defeated you may now take my head with your weapon because we're gonna choose to spare Choices yours. Yeah, no you're spared. Thank you for a formidable game there a fine match. Yeah, well-earned well-met next time I'll get you back you rascal there see that's all that needed to happen.
Yeah, but it didn't no it didn't it does feel weird Why is that uh, I mean so losing well or losing poorly that's a that's a decision people get to make I recently had a situation with my daughter I won't go into details, but she went to this camp and there was a sporting competition at the camp It took me a while to dig up what happened, but there was an individual at the camp that was one of the counselors All right, my daughter is perhaps a little old for the skill level that they were at anyway long story short She ended up you know the end of the week to have a competition. She ended up beating her counselors Oh, or a counselor and a really bad one Yeah, the counselor wasn't that great, but not that the skill level wasn't that great She was great, but like she had some growing to do and so fair enough I was just joking no I mean and the reason I knew that is because my daughter got this incredible text after the event And it was like a personal attack about what yeah, it was crazy from a counselor. Yeah a lot of the camp Yeah, a lot of language all kinds of stuff, you know, they're supposed to do like the opposite of that Uh, yeah, they're supposed to lift each other with the kids up and yeah teach them how to better and stuff. Whoops Yeah, but I mean it was a situation where I don't know young ladies and thoughts and I don't know long story short My daughter was like, what do you do here?
And uh, I said, oh, this is interesting And so some of the things that the counselor had laid out in the we will say the counselor because she was a young lady We'll say this other individual. We'll keep the counselor part. You know, I'm trying to say long story short I think what happened was the lady lost poorly like she was trying to justify in her head man How did I lose to this person? I'm not supposed to lose to and so that she lashed out And she kind of brought to the surface all those hidden things she thought about the imperfections about my daughter She's like, but but you did this and you did this and and a lot of it was valid But I think the act of losing brought it to the surface And it was an interesting thing because in that moment especially for someone who's very very competitive Uh, you have to make a decision.
I just was defeated at this thing and uh, everybody knows it And like the the young man who you know, we said hey get something on your shirt and he he looked down He's like, uh, that was very public. You got me. Mm-hmm. Also, it doesn't really matter I think in some cases for maybe a less mature person it matters a lot, but uh, I don't know losing is a thing Losing is an interesting thing.
Yeah, it is a thing because it's an ordeal in the classic sense You're setting up a test with certain parameters to sample what would happen if What have push really came to shove here? It's it's some sort of test of metal and it can be a fun and playful thing And I I'd like to think most competition is but it's very easy To I guess take it to the level I just described that it is a test of something much deeper And sometimes you don't pass that test and it's really easy to be like well, we're just playing or well It's an imperfect test. It has silly rules whatever. So again, we're just playing other times You look at that and you're like no, that was all I had.
I really gave that my best the competition was fair It makes sense. Maybe I don't have what it takes and I think when losing strikes at that insecurity That's when you get the weird stuff by that's when you get it I mean that's when it comes out of me when the losing hits who I am I don't have it if push came to shove I might not be able to deliver those kind of internal narratives That's what'll draw out not the best losing behavior for me So all the talk about the you know, you got something on your shirt and the checkers thing all that was so that we could talk about being a loser Yeah, that's exactly. Are you trying to tell me something? Well, I think we could do it easily do a whole conversation about winning But in a lot of ways, I think winning is easier I mean, it's more dangerous probably than losing everybody feels like they're pretty good at winning I mean you win and you just like well, yeah, obviously I won because of the things I did that were superior There's no further narrative to it and you just kind of move forward But losing it triggers this whole set of feelings that you don't get in a lot of other places in life Even the possibility of losing can cause huge anxiety And for me one of the things that I am most tempted to do when I lose is come up with some reason other than I lost because I didn't do the thing as well that explains it so that I have that internally so I can still hold on to you I believe in myself.
I could do it under pressure I'm a person who can deliver and then swear that somehow but in that circumstance I did score fewer points than I did lose and when that comes out externally when I won feel that pressure Which isn't all the time of course, but when I do and it comes out externally The net effect is it just sounds like I'm totally cheapening what the other person just accomplished I think I've behaved hurtfully at times toward other people in defeat When really what I was trying to do was just prop myself back up And that probably should have been internal monologue or better yet I should have just reflected on well, is that something I even can improve and if so, what would it look like to improve that or Is that something I could just be at peace with some people are better than I am and that's okay So that for me is the anatomy of my unhealthy losing impulse that I feel from time to time This episode of not on questions is brought to you by Raycon. We use them all the time We like them destined why are the Raycon's good? Oh, they're great. They're easy to travel with they come the little charging box We call it the pill.
It's like a little folding clamshell kind of thing that actually charges that your buds And I recently took them overseas with me. They work great We actually did the this little thing where we walked around There's this guy named Rick Steves that does these walking tours Yes And we figured out a way to pair the Raycons to to tear his phone And then we went on this walking tour together and she would listen to one raycon and I would listen to the other and we could we could hear what was going on That's what love is yeah, part of it. Awesome. We had a loving tender moment in our marriage as well That happened over some raycons.
Yeah, I got Camilla those rose gold ones for christmas And she's been running walking doing exercise stuff with her girlfriends and whatnot She came back. She's like, well, we got a problem one of my raycons fell out I said, well, were you able to retrieve it? She's like, yeah, I was right there in front of okay It's like, I don't know they fall out now like well Did you try changing up a little gel tip because maybe that's just not the right size and she said gel tip and I was like, oh, yeah Let me show you moving back to the original box and I got him out I was like here try this one and then it just stuck and she's like that's amazing That's the best thing ever I've had no reports of the raycon falling out since then Does that mean like because she's running and stuff like her body has changed dimensions and like she lost Ear weight I was like, this is such a tender thing. I don't know I don't know how to suck about it thing right now.
I don't know what that means She looks great to me. I I don't I have not the tekamos always look great any changes in her ears Physiologically, but it was time for change on that gel tip. I mean, you know stuff changes. Yeah, it's nice.
Have the option There you go. There you go. Yeah, so if you want to customize your ear hole size You can do that with the gel tips that come with a package you're ever changing your hole size That pill thing that I was talking about or the little little holder You have up to 32 hours of battery life The way it works is you use that your buds and then you can put them in the thing and it charges it So 32 hours for the long haul when you're using the thing to charge it's great So I highly recommend it. Do we have an offer this time out?
Oh, we do yes And it is it's specifically written I'm going to read it just as it's written because this is I mean as we're recording This is something like it's six years a six year birthday of raycon So they put together a little scripted part here to just explain exactly what the really good deal is that comes along with that I'm going to read it verbatim here we go do it celebrate raycon turning six with their biggest sale of the year going on now Hurry now to buy raycon calm slash NDq and use birthday It's like all cats birthday is the code to get 20 to 40 percent off site wide That's code birthday at by raycon calm slash NDq to score 20 to 40 percent off raycon calm slash NDq and use the code birthday and you get 20 to 40 percent off and a lot of that I'm saying you're doing the math on that means that raycon has been a part of this podcast for more than half of their lives Which is pretty awesome. I think it's worth mentioning that they're doing new stuff also This past year raycon has expanded their entire business with the introduction of raycon home and raycon power tech So agree. Yeah, thank you raycon. Thank you to all of you who've supported the podcast by getting raycons Do you ever have an unhealthy losing impulse?
Yeah, and I think it depends on the stakes And I think losing can mean many different things. I don't know if it's me versus somebody else There's two people going against each other and one will win and one will lose That's a certain type of competition a different type of competition is when it's me versus me I either pass or I fail So failure and losing I think are a little bit different because the addition of the secondary party Added social dynamic to the situation that brings a whole different set of things through the circumstances like for example A test that I really wanted to pass recently. I failed it at first. It was just me.
I lost I didn't get it and so those types of things can determine the outcome of your future you go for a job That's a that's very much a winning or losing kind of thing. Hey, I won the job Hey, I didn't get my job or if there was an interview process and I wasn't selected I can remember a specific time where there was an interview process and I wasn't selected and I did exactly what you're talking about I was like, oh well, they didn't select me because of the way I am in these ways I was like, well, that's obviously what it is and then later on I see the candidates that won the job and I'm like, oh, no It's because they're better. You know, that's that's an interesting that's an interesting thing How did you get to a place where you could say that mean it and be at peace with it? Because I don't think that's easy to just I mean, he's made it sound so simple I got some time passed and then I was like, oh well, you're better It takes a lot of time to pass on certain topics for me to just be okay with putting the hilt of the sword to my nose Bowing my head and stepping out of the fight to concede it to someone who is better That's tough, but I mean you sound on and off mics like you are genuinely at peace with the conclusion you're saying that Somebody's always just better at a time.
There's an old western song by Marty Robbins called fastest gun around It's a gunfighter ballad And the cool thing about the song actually I just look it up fastest gun around The cool thing about the song is there's a young person that comes up to challenge the skunk fighter And he's like, hey, I'm really fast. I don't know if you know this but I'm really really good at gunfighting I mean I can pull my gun out really fast and shoot things with it And the old gunfighter moves he's in the town and he's like, oh great and somebody else trying to dethrone me Also, this is a game of high stakes. This is like for death. It's really interesting.
You ever listen to Marty Robbins? I could not tell you any songs by Marty Robbins. Yeah, but I'm familiar with Marty Robbins So how do the West Texas town of El Paso? That's Marty Robbins.
Okay great. Yeah, fast. It's gonna round here we go In the days of William bunnies better known as bill the kid So I'm gonna stop right there So if he could take him he would be the fastest gun around and so what are you competing for? In that situation just in general You're competing to be the number one seed to be the best.
Well, not just the best Here's the thing. This is like the idea of castles in medieval warfare If you got a castle that's just sitting out there somewhere in a region The existence of that castle means no one else is in charge that fortification with that garrison means within a certain radius Whoever owns that castle is in charge of that radius If you want to own this radius, you got to go through that castle You have to beat its defenses and you have to you have to own it And so it's the same thing here. It's like a playoff bracket Somebody's got to get through the best player to get to the championship here Whoever has the fastest gun in the imagined lawless old west They run that town because anybody else can run off their mouth or fill out paperwork Be like I stake my claim to this thing here, right? Sure.
Can you pull your gun out faster than me? Well, then that sheet of paper. I don't reckon it means much now does it or did you want to find out? Well, no sir.
No sir. No sir. So in this cultural setting whoever can pull their gun out the fastest and fire it accurately Everything else and everybody else runs through them So it's it's not just a high stakes life and death thing It's high stakes because you're taking your claim to everything So we've got joey steel he's walking up on the old gunfighter, right? He knows like hey if i'm able to do this people will respect me and this is the fast track to getting that respect that i haven't really earned Well, let's listen to what he thinks.
Okay Is the fastest gun around? The That's pretty awesome in it. It's great the song is like a minute and 40 seconds But it's something I play for the kids a lot I do it because it's an awesome song first of all But I also do it because it helps frame challenges to authority and things like this and you're you know the hubris of youth and I don't know It's really really interesting well i've never heard of this other kid joey steel but i've heard a billy the kid Why and so i'm guessing i know how this one is gonna work out And and that makes it an Icarus story right like kid you wanted to get too close to the sun and the wax melted Yeah, it just it doesn't work out. I suppose that raises the question about well when do you go fight billy the kid then but let's finish the song Then we think about that this line you're about to hear is my one of my favorite songs and all of country music He says uh billy knew that joey wanted notches on his gun and he wished that he could give him those he carved upon his own So basically when we turn the page here you get to see inside billy's mind and he's like oh man I am the winner I am the best but there's this thing that happens once you win you have to defend it constantly Um, I went to the University of Alabama There's a chant that happens occasionally when one team will beat another team, you know out in some conference or whatever Do you know what the chant is that will happen at a random stadium?
That's not in alabama. I have no idea We want bama. Oh you want bama. Yeah, okay.
Yeah for that So like if you're on top or at least perceived on top or you have this reputation everybody's coming for you So I root for the University of Colorado They went one and 11 last year and uh they were up three zero four minutes into the first quarter against ucla Awesome everybody there at fulsome field and boulders started chanting that I think they lost Did they really have any two to three? No, no, but that's how bad the team I report is that's a vehicle That's awesome though. We'll talk more about losing here in a minute because I know you're the Colorado Rockies But let's yeah, but listen to this line It's the way the line is delivered by marty Robbins is one of my favorite lines in all countries. Okay Five Is wasted life passed quickly ending with this fatal draw Billy breathe more easily and he put away his gun Then he tried to be this conscience for the long that he had done Then he settled up his horse and headed westward out of town And he wondered just how long it be the fastest girl to run Isn't that wonderful?
It's wonderful. It's a great song. It's easy to memorize too. It's it's a minute Uh, let's see a minute 45 seconds.
There's a lot that happens in that last 30 seconds there. Yes, Joey gets smoked He gets smoked before he even fires the gun. Mm-hmm, but Joey went to shoot first It wasn't a Han Solo situation like Joey went for the gun but before he was able to clear leather He got hit and it adds another layer of burden to Billy's life Yeah, who now has to of course ride westward out of town with each other. I mean which way to gun fighters right out of town Oh, he's always west.
That's where the sunset is. Well, and it's because it's awesome. Yeah, then that line would like that We get to see inside Billy's head as well that defending this thing is very expensive It maybe seems like here. Well, no, I'm not gonna say what it seems like.
I'm gonna ask you So what's the moral of the story here be Billy or be Joey? Well, Joey was a loser. He just didn't know it yet He really wanted to show everybody how big he was. He just didn't know that's what he wanted He wanted the fast track to fame and glory, um, which is kind of the tale of Rome I learned he wanted the fast track to fame and glory But he ended up testing himself in front of everyone before he was ready and for unnecessary reasons And so it's interesting so you got the winner the person in the position of power Billy who just is like he's he's had to earn that through pain and but you have Joey who Who just just thinks he's awesome and he wants to go after it and he just isn't ready It's interesting.
I like the end of the story. He headed westward out of town and he wondered just how long he'd be the fastest gun around He's got this he is the best. He doesn't really want it. You know, he did once Yeah, he did once and that's maybe history telling that story too, not just the song But let's set history aside How did he get the title in the first place because you could extrapolate from the song that he didn't want to be a great gun fighter He didn't have any hubris He was just walking along one day and had to shoot some guy in a duel and then another guy No, at some point he was a more talented version of Joey.
I mean, that's how you become Billy the kid We still know his name name other great gun fighters of the old west. What he got three four That's incredible How many people wanted to still be known by you and me sitting right here How many joey's were they who aspired to have their names be remembered for good reasons? So he was good. How did he get it in the first place?
Well, I don't think he got it reluctantly I think he got it by being better at 17 than Joey was at 17 and he actually got what he wanted at 17 I don't know much about Billy the kid was he a gun fighter as a I mean Billy the kid I guess I guess he was young It's well written. Oh, it's great. Yeah, but I think you could listen to that song And on your first couple passes you could be like well Billy's kind of the noble good guy here. It was foisted upon him He never wanted this but if you play it back and you think about it I mean clearly Billy sees himself in joey.
He doesn't want to shoot that kid He also doesn't really want to get shot given only the two options Billy's ability to stay alive is dependent on winning this gunfight in front of everybody the kid challenged him You can't be a coward. That's the culture of the thing and so it's a lose lose I don't know we were listening to michael jackson's beat it last night We certainly were the whole premise of the song as I heard it with my adult years yesterday was hey There's a challenge about to happen. You don't have to fight. Mm-hmm.
This is gonna get violent You can always just walk away. Yeah, that is an option It is an option It's not always an option, but in that case it was an option getting back to your original question about being a loser I think there's a right way in a wrong way to be a loser For example, you know our football team Bama good for a really long time I guess the point where you expect to win and then when you lose you get angry about it. That's awful That's I mean that kind of angry. I don't know.
I've just seen people that just can't handle it So you don't get angry. I don't know it doesn't seem like you do. No, I don't know I really enjoy sporting and competition But I don't know I like to see other people win and I like the joy they get out of that when do you start composing your Congratulatory text during an Alabama loss me. Yeah, cuz you always have one you have a con- or tweet rather You have a congratulatory tweet Yeah, for everyone who's a fan of the team that beats the team that everyone knows you root for you always do it I do is it now fourth quarter?
This is a one-score game. I should probably have this ready and loaded now just in case or do you wait until it's official? I wait till after the after the game before Nick Saban talks typically But I think it's important to give it to people like if you get beat It's important to lose well because if you lose well then you know somebody fought for that And they they took you down and I say that as if I've ever been on a football field You know in this way, but I think when you are on the side that's traditionally the victor and you get defeated It's very important to be honorable in your response. I mean like hey good job You know the purpose of this is competition and to make both of us better you best at us today and that's amazing Rain work.
Yeah, you're a worthy opponent. I think that's really really cool. I don't say any of those things I just say something like man good job Clemson. Yeah, well It's also by the way debos we need if something happens to Nick Saban while he's like walking on the water down on the black Warrior River if he gets hit by jet ski or something Yeah, but if you could just come to Bama and just go to be great So you do that every time and I notice it and I like it I think it's honorable.
I also think it's shrewd it takes the power out of it If you just think about the equation winning and losing especially something where you don't control it or even play What do you get? What's your maximum ceiling that you get for your team winning that you don't play for? Comeuppens. Yeah, I don't know you didn't do anything No, the ceiling's actually really low for what you get if you set up your whole life to be about when my team wins I'm gonna show all y'all.
Yeah, you don't get anything Yeah, what's the maximum basement for what you get if your team loses and you have played your hands wrong? I don't know the losing hurts up to a point and then it gets funny again Like the Cleveland Browns who did like the Colorado Rockies. Yeah and the Colorado Buffalo teams I root for it so bad It's funny. Yeah, but you still reform which is awesome.
Yeah, that's how the heart works. It's how the heart works Yeah, what do you mean? I love baseball dude I grew up rooting for the royals my dad went to grad school in Kansas City So I grew up rooting for the royals, you know, that's why I like George Brett and all that well Then we moved to Colorado when I was a young man and they got a baseball team right after that when I was a kid It's our team. I mean it was just crazy that I wouldn't have to watch WGN or Atlanta to you watch the Cubs or the Braves So I don't care about but those are the national broadcast so those the only teams you can like if your town doesn't have a team And now we have a team and it's the Rockies and I can see the Rockies out my window at my house Look, it's named for our mountains.
This is great. They just captured my heart I am printed on the Rockies as a kid. Well, then the two members of the ownership group a guy named Steve Antinucci Mickey Monas I think those were their names a couple of investors. They did a bunch of shady stuff They went to prison for the bezelman racketeering I don't remember exactly what but they went to jail and lost the team don't know whatever happened to those guys So then a couple of cattle brothers the monforthe brothers they can Charlie monfort now I think their company is called swift they got the team well, they're not super great at baseball But the president of baseball operations was he tragically died Flute death as a young man in his you know forties and now it's just the monforthe brothers running the team I think it's the biggest joke organization in all of pro sports That's the reputation of the Rockies just comically horrible They traded the best third baseman in the history of baseball to the st.
Louis cardinals and gave the cardinals 50 million dollars to make him go away Yeah, because of some dispute with the Rockies GM who they've been immediately fired What then the Rockies went out and hired aging slugger Chris Bryant for the same amount for which they could have kept Nolan Arna And Chris Bryant is seems like a great dude But to say that his best days of baseball are behind him would be the understatement of the forever He doesn't even play he's just always injured making unbelievable amounts of money I don't begrudge him that but it's awful for the team and it's a microcosm of how horribly it's gone So you would start to think well Matt you seem like a logical person you love baseball It's your favorite sport just root for a different team and go root for the royals again Or just anybody root for a winner and have fun with baseball season again But when I say that isn't how the heart works my friend that's what I mean I just can't not I'm married to the Rockies and they're just they're just a horrible baseball spouse It's interesting you're probably a better loser than I am I would think Because of your experience with Colorado Rockies So I know I know it's coming like I know that we've got the Bama dynasty right now And I know that that doesn't happen forever. I know there will be a decline and maybe it's already started I just don't know what's that gonna be like so for me I got my start in Alabama football when I went to school those were the dark years, man We had Dennis ranchoni that I know the name okay, we had Mike Price I know that name too who like never coached because he ended up using a university card at a gentleman's establishment I'm supposed to do that. You're not supposed to do that. Also.
We don't want a person like that in the state, you know So it's like it was weird Yeah, it was just really really bad and so we didn't get to experience victories We had one SEC championship in there, which was great But it was just a weird weird time And so that's what I came from and then as you slowly you know work hard and you know The perception of the team was well, they worked hard and they eventually got to where it was great and got a coach You kind of savored a little bit more but then people that just kind of roll up in here And they're just like oh we're good because we're good and then they get a loss They're just like whoa, this is the end of my what we can't you know They can't process that loss and so I think there's a right and a wrong way to process loss Yeah, the counselor at my daughter's camp didn't process it well I've seen other people not process it well, but ultimately this is just sports It's not like we're in a gunfight and when we lose we'll die Well, but it wasn't sporting the example you gave regarding the job application true And so that's why I think there are different categories of winning and losing you get kid's friend who got his nose flipped in front of everybody That's not really a loss. That's just inclusion and this time around you're the one we're laughing at hopefully all together He handled that perfectly you go back to the fools errand episode you and I did sit in these chairs right here My argument and I understand not everybody's gonna agree with me But my argument is if the L doesn't cost you very much socially take it and take it well long-term That's gonna pay off and don't allow yourself to be the doormat But take it some social L's are just the process of earning your stripes and be in a part of a social group It's fine It's tougher when those losses are about things that are deeply connected to your sense of self And so for example, uh, if you got a job you really want and you think you're the person and you don't get it Well, that's a tougher loss to process If your entire reputation is being predicated on being the fastest the strongest the best Then somebody calls you out and you go and play and you lose what's tough because that defeat it tells a story That's a narrative that says you aren't as superlative in this area as you thought you were what do you do with that? It's gonna be real tempting to lose poorly in that kind of situation Then we have another kind of winning and losing and that's the one we ended up talking about here a little bit in the last few minutes And that is uh, what term vicarious winning and losing I have nothing to do with the success or failure of the Colorado Rockies or the Colorado buffalos I've just worn their stuff a lot and I've been transparent enough to let people know that I care and for whatever stupid reason I'm happy when they win that I'm sad when they lose and Some people looking for something to connect about or talk about or rib you when your team loses or give you a high five when your team wins I think that's the lowest order of winning and losing and should be the easiest one to kind of move past because it's not you But in all of this the one thing that all these different levels of winning and losing having common Is that it can kind of start to feel like winning is a personal brand and losing is a personal brand And I think subconsciously you can get to a place where you take a few too many L's in a row You're like, oh no, that's becoming my brand Yeah, I'm a loser to be my brand and that can draw out weird erratic things But here here's the thing I've noticed the people I admire the most the ones who I aspire to be like The ones who challenge me to be better just by their mere existence and how they approach life Are the ones for whom how they lose is a win And it builds their winning brand in losing does that make sense? Absolutely because they they use it to motivate them to get better That was a great point that losing can become your brand if you ever seen somebody that knows they're gonna lose and so they like kind of Don't try yes.
Hey that yes, that is a worse way to lose than like just pitching a fit when you do lose I don't know it can be have you seen this little league coach talking to his kids to motivate them No, you haven't seen this winning and losing listen to this Naked got it another one Riley you don't have any other goals, ain't it? Okay negative goes right here. All right. Did we learn anything?
Our goals our goals no not even close our goals Or let's it listen our goals are to hit fingers everybody better have their eyes on me eyes on me, Riley Hit fingers disgrace the pitcher's family make the other families other players cry Stomp their butts into the There are two types of people in this world. There's winners and there's losers Just so that we're clear every time we step on this field Our goal is to be a winner and if your dad Just as long as you have fun, but hey to say it your dad's a loser That was uploaded by Scott Bergen eight years ago. That's a fantastic fantastic speech to a little kid That's money. Yes, there's two types of people winners and losers simple.
You want to be the winner Yeah, I would rather do that. Yeah, and if your dad said it doesn't matter then your dad's a loser That's true, right? I mean, it's just that simple. It's that simple.
I think you should not want to be a loser But if you are a loser, you should do it well I totally agree And this whole line of thought winning losing losing well is something that came to mind about a week ago Maybe two weeks ago when I saw someone who is probably the best ever at what he does Lows to a young gun and how he responded to losing to that young gun really challenged me. What do you mean? There's a Serbian guy his name's no vac yoke a bitch. Yeah, you're your favorite player.
Well, nakoli yokech is my favorite athlete Oh, okay He's a basketball player. Okay for the world champion denver nugget something I had nothing to do with but okay I'm really happy about yeah his buddy fellow countryman no, I think you'll probably go down as great as tennis player ever He's just absolutely phenomenal. He's had a little bit of a temper at times in the past. Nobody likes losing I've seen him lose poorly in the past.
There's a new kid up in common He's quite the gunslinger and his name's Carlos Alcaras. He's good. He's athletic. He's fast He's persistent.
He stays in points forever and these two just had an epic showdown a couple of weeks ago And the kid won and one of the interesting things is that in tennis after the final match of a tournament a lot of times They'll have the two players who just played each other on the mic at the same time being interviewed So like one reporter and the mic back and forth between the two guys And so whatever the loser says the winner standing right next to him Okay, and vice versa and it's great and I would love to play for you What yokevitch said in defeat to this young gun who challenged him and beat him Novak what an extraordinary final you really left your heart and soul out here on this center court for nearly five hours Is this the young gun or the other guy? This is the this the old guy the old guy that I lost you better and who lost to the young gun It's never easy to speak after a loss, but please just give us your thoughts on this wonderful final Well, uh, good afternoon. So everyone Not so good for me, but good for for Carlos I have to start obviously with uh praises to to Carlos and to his team amazing what a quality in the end of the match to When you had to serve it out you you came up with some big serves and big plays or you deserved absolutely Amazing. That's awesome.
Great. Yeah I thought I'll have trouble with you only on clay and maybe hardcore, but no congrats, but now You know, it's a different story from this year. Obviously Congrats amazing way to adapt to the surface. Uh, you know, you played maybe one or twice Before this year's Wimbledon on grass and amazing just what you did in Queens and congratulations to your team wonky everybody well done guys Keep positive for just a second Okay, this isn't just a he did a good job and he won and this is Wimbledon This is the biggest stage in tennis and you can see this young guy over here Just beaming as no vac yokevich isn't just saying good job today, but i'm following your career I'm paying attention to you.
This great tennis legend is taking all of these little things that that mean so much to the young guy And in front of everybody he's like yeah, I saw that too You did like specifically not just generically a good job. You did well at this you did well at this you did well at this Instead of run a little more For me, obviously, you know, you never never like to lose a matches like this, but uh, you know, uh, I guess when all the emotions are settled Uh, I have to still be very grateful because I want many many uh tight and close matches in the past year Uh to name a few, you know, 2019 against roger in that finals where I was a match points down You know, maybe I should have lost a couple of finals that I won so I think uh, this is even Steven Oh, that's awesome, right I mean think about what he just did It's one of the greatest players ever and he almost just a little bit invalidated some of his previous wins Yeah, he did in the service of praising him because he knew there was going to be a narrative about a couple points at the end That we're a little flooky and he made sure that the kid got full credit By reminding people well some of those titles that I have that make me such a legend I got a couple points down the stretch that were a little bit flooky too I mean what he's saying in tennis speak is let's make sure he gets absolutely full credit Don't talk about those couple of little goofy bounces. They count they're real he won. That's what he's signaling to all the fans Yeah, amazing amazing at his own expense.
So how did that challenge you? I just want to lose better. I go and play with my buddy rocky who's bigger stronger faster and a better athlete I don't like he's better. Oh my gosh.
It's not even close. Yeah, good heavens You have a more attractive friend than rocky. I don't know. Yeah, that's no good galley Look, he's just better than me and I get it and I accept it and I don't like it and I can still beat him sometimes I've played sports myself, but when I lose to rocky There is this temptation within me for that to be about what I did wrong and not to be about what he did right because when he he's smart And when he beats me it isn't because I just hit the ball into the net inexplicably a few more times than usual We play epic matches that require work and effort and strategy and thought and when he beats me It is because he was more clever than me and he earned it and I am cheating my friend One of my favorite people in the world out of the full joy of that win when I try to make it about ice screwed up When really it's about he was awesome and that video right there that you just saw will forever change the way I lose That's huge.
Um and what you're saying right now means a lot to me because I have a 14 almost 15 year old son And the only thing in the world he wants right now is to beat his dad Literally the only thing he wants he doesn't matter if he wins on the basketball court doesn't matter All he wants to do is know he's better than dad And that's a coincidence because all I want is for my son to be better than me, right? But I can't just give it to him. You cannot I cannot give it to him And so we have this little game that we play you know he's getting strong and I try to make him eat more food He always complains about it, but I'm trying to make him so you know bigger He saw that play out a little bit last night. Yeah, stress is my wife out.
She's like he can't eat anymore as oh he can So it's it's a fun little thing we do I'll come home and he'll be in the yard with a soccer ball and he'll say something like hey dad I bet I can kick the soccer ball farther than you can. I was like really? He's like, yeah, okay Let's try we did it the other day and he kicked it and he shanked it and it went off to the side I was like, well, let me try and I kicked it obviously went farther. He's like, yeah, but I shanked it I was like, okay, maybe you won't tomorrow, but you did today We'll see and the next day I come home and he's sitting there with a soccer ball like just like a puppy waiting on the car You know he's like hey dad.
He's like hey, what's up buddy? I was like, uh, what you got there? He's like, is it a soccer ball but I can kick this farther than you can like all right? Let's let's try Joey steel.
Let's see how Billy does today and of course he kicks it farther What do you say is dad? The answer is good job buddy. You're getting stronger proud of you That's happening with everything that's happening with everything If I want him to get better what I say is so this uh this standardized test that you're gonna do soon Do you know what I got on that? This is the score I got on that I bet you can beat me That's all I have to say at this point I know when I walk in his his room at night and I walk in and he's got that desk there and he's studying and he doesn't want to say What are you doing there?
Oh, I'm just doing my uh, ACT prep. Oh, okay cool. Cool. I know what he's thinking He's not gonna be dead.
That's all he wants And so it's very very important when he does for me to give him that and to give it in a way that he can hear buddy I'm proud of you. That's awesome. He did this and what you just taught me there is uh, my watch it How do you say this guy's name? Yokobich?
Yokobich. I need to take notes right now And bring those notes back up when I do lose to him lord willing and I need to tell him all the things You know what? I really like that night that you could have bob-bob if you were actually studying I think that's why you won this I think I need to bring that stuff up. That's a really really cool thing So thanks for making me a loser, man.
Yeah, well, I mean, dude, I can't take credit for that. You don't need my help Whatever