This isn't what we're gonna talk about today. We don't want to ask you anyway. Okay. What is the best quality performance?
You've ever seen in person musically the best quality performance. Yeah Yeah, I'm not asking you what your favorite concert to ever was or what the most fun you ever had your best memory none of that Just who did you see even if you didn't like the music? Who did you see who did the best job at playing what they were there to play? Oh, so it has to be a musician.
Okay? Yeah, that's what I'm driving at. Sorry. I'm phrased that well.
Um quality man. That's a hard one Well, I mean I saw Alabama play in Fort Payne, Alabama. That's where they're from, right? Yeah, it was June jam, man It was last year.
It was great, dude, because I don't know the guy that's singing the lead singer Randy He's up there and you know his name. I think it's Randy Owens. Am I wrong about that? I don't know I like Alabama.
I don't know any other names Randy sounds exactly right to me Let me tell you how I know it because he's up there saying and he goes this next song So and so decided to partner us with st. Jude children's hospital back in the day And it's rather hard to sing this but I'm gonna try it, you know He gets up there and the people in the crowd like know these people because they're from there and this guy's like you can do it Randy You can do it buddy. Just go for it buddy. You know We'll kind of do it.
He's like you know Randy's getting emotional and they probably see each other in Sunday school or something And he's he's you know, you got ready go for buddy. It was great and then he performed angels among us. He did he did perform Is that the song? Yeah, that's the song dude.
That's a deep pull I bought an Alabama album once when I was a kid. Yeah, there's a girl I liked who liked country music so I tried to fake it so I bought a Brooks and Dun CD and I bought that Alan Jackson CD The one that has Chadda hoochie on it. Yeah, and all the words to that pure medicans with pale moonlight I bought that what's the guy's name? You can't see his eyes because his hat downloads an actor come on Do I yokem?
I got the Dwight yokem CD? So this is your country and I got yeah, I tried it I tried to play long and I got the Alabama CD Yeah, and it had that angels among us on it along with the one about minor league baseball and the super famous one about I'm in a hurry to get things done. I'm in a hurry Russian Russian to laughs no fun. Yeah, do you guys just know all their songs automatically?
Is a birthright it happens when you pop out of the womb? Yeah, you just like instantly you just know them That's how it works. Can you name five Alabama songs right now if you're not looking? Oh God Okay, well we'll go angels among us.
We'll go. Okay. I'm in a hurry. We'll go.
Yeah mountain music Dixie land of lights. Oh, yeah Shoot, I don't know am I out? I don't know no, you're not out. You got this.
I mean I could sing the songs But I was in the songs. What's the one about the what's the one about the fiddle? Don't you have to have one of those? Oh, yeah, yeah, if you're gonna play in Texas, it's gotta be a fill in the band I'm gonna start hopping out for losing anime So Ross no yeah, absolutely dude great So my buddy when he learned that I took the family to June jam He's like dude.
I went to such and such concert and that year they made an album called for the record And it was every one of their number one hits. He said dude. This was four CDs What yeah, yeah, it's like a box set and it's all their songs that was ever number one. Let me for the record I'm looking it up right now, Alabama.
I don't know this to be true. This is what he said Yeah, 44 track greatest hits wait for the record 41 number one hits is a two-disc I'm sorry is two-disc 44 track greatest hits package released by the country American country music band Alabama What I knew they were a big deal, but are you kidding me? Yeah, it's great Tennessee River I didn't know it was like that did they do song of the south is that them or is that yeah song of the south sweep Tada ponosh up my mouth. Yeah, they played song of the south.
They played Tennessee River man Tennessee River. I live very close to the Tennessee River. How does that go? I don't know that I know that one Tennessee River And a mountain man we get together in a time of can you know that one that honestly sounded pretty good man I like the way whenever you try to be super serious singing where you're kind of making fun of you're also trying to relay the melody You always have that big breathe off at the end I know exactly what mood you're in you do you breathe at the end of each rate?
I do 40 hour week No 40 hour week or 40 hour week. We're living pass it on down the line. Hello, Detroit. You know these no I don't know that song, but did they do take a little trip take a little trip take a little trip up to heaven tonight Is that them?
I don't know maybe maybe they did picture that maybe being on that one record I bought that one time maybe good heavens Dixie land delight. I think it's one of the most pleasant songs I've ever heard in my entire life Oh, it's great dude. I have absolutely no sense of nostalgia for where you live I got no background though, you know what we do have we got all the states where we've all lived as a family on our wall I got cutting boards. Yeah, you're talking about cutting boards.
Yeah, we got Alabama on there Yeah, we've been there enough We like it, but I don't feel any nostalgia I didn't grow up there and Dixie land delight is one of the few pieces of art that makes me feel nostalgia for something I was never a part of like growing up in the south in the 80s or 90s or whatever that's supposed to make you feel Mm-hmm. I feel something I just don't understand it. Hmm. So I bought a tag for the front of my truck that it says Alabama tour I think it's 1984 something like that.
It's 40 hour week and it's got a hard hat in the lunchbox In my heart that's kind of who I am It's like a in the 80s a blue collar just basically what I saw my mom and dad do growing up my mom worked on an assembly line My dad worked a tool engaged for the same factory. I like that smell the smell of cutting fluid a machinist cutting fluid die grinding fluid Yeah, I remember my parents coming home smelling like that smells like work to me I'm sorry you ask about the best performance because if you know you're good because if you I've learned to appreciate Some of those smells I can picture the smell of your CNC music factory machine you cut metal with whatever that That fluid is you run in there. Yeah, I can picture it It's attached to my memory. No, that does sound like what you grew up with and I think that is who you are You have not moved on from where you grew up.
You live real close to there I live within an hour of where I was born so stuff like that it kind of gets in the blood And you got a little bit some music and things like that that connect to it But there's no there's a South Dakota or Mountain West band that's the equivalent of Alabama I mean you got Rocky Mountain Way by Joe Walsh that's sort of Emphemic for this part of the world. I Don't know I can't think of anything We don't really have a song let alone an entire 41 greatest hits number one album from a band that is Named after our state. That's pretty wild. The thing about Alabama.
They have a really interesting song about It's basically an environmentalist anthem. It's talking about leaving the future world better in terms of nature being clean than now If you heard this song no, I thought you're gonna say they did the Captain Planet theme song Yeah, yes, but it's a guitar on it. It sounds totally right. No, I'm not familiar with their environmental anthem It's really good.
It talks about leaves and green on the ground leaves and blue up above us It's good anyway, the song that I think of when I think of your part of the world is John Denver Rocky Mountain High Colorado. Oh, yeah, I'm an idiot. Why didn't I say that? Yeah, that's a really good point John Denver is kind of Colorado music I predates me by a lot so I sort of forget John Denver, which is dumb because he's a big deal obviously But yeah, I mean he's got Denver in the name even okay.
That's a good point. You know, he died as an airplane pilot, right? No, I didn't remember that. Yeah, he was gonna crash or something Yeah, he was piloting an airplane and it was a modified experimental airplane and the fuel valve To switch over from one of the fuel tanks to the other was up above your shoulder in a very difficult place to get to And so there's a lot of questions about what exactly happened But what they think he ran out of fuel and didn't switch the tanks when it was happening like oh crap I mean, oh my engine just died what happened he didn't figure it out quick enough and they think that's why he died huh?
No, I didn't you can read the NTSB reports on that like there's a crash someone died the national transportation safety board has to do an Investigation so you can just look all that stuff up. Hmm. No, I didn't remember that was how he passed away I did remember thinking he died early planes got a lot of musicians back then They have Keith Green died obviously big bobber and who else was on that plane the day the music died It's a buddy Holly buddy Holly. Yeah, and LaBomba guy richy balance right wasn't he on that flight as well?
No, I don't know you don't hear about that as much anymore That's good. That means progress. Yeah, you know the other guy who famously has a last name Denver is Gilligan Bob Denver Is he I played Gilligan what so you got your John Denver? You got your Bob Denver?
Yeah Bob Denver? He was a Gilligan Gilligan's Island I always felt some kind of pride growing up in Colorado that there were people at the last name Denver I don't know what my deal is yeah You started this whole conversation by asking what the best performance I ever saw was and I gave you that's what I was circling back to Yep, were you stalling? I was actually thinking about a busker in London. Okay, there was a busker one time He was also performing but I've seen some amazing buskers.
Who's it for you? Who's the best performance? Well if you'd asked me eight days ago It would have been tough. I would have said maybe Foo Fighters at Red Rocks.
That was pretty cool, but thinking back on that show It was great. It was technically great, but it was mostly energy It was sloppy and reckless and concert performances last can I before you tell me the answer which I know it must be the concert You just went to or you wouldn't be saying this but I want to tell you about the Foo Fighters I heard David Grohl have you seen this clip on the internet of when David Grohl and the Foo Fighters they were on Saturday night live and Christopher Walken was introducing them. Have you heard about this? No, I don't know and so David Grohl said they tricked Christopher Walken into putting the accent on fighters instead of Foo What do you say the Foo Fighters?
And yes, they said they Christopher Walken came and said hey, which uh, you know is the accent on the the emphasis on the Foo or the fighters? He was okay, and he said you'll just have to listen to David Grohl say is ladies and gentlemen who fighters That's already how he sounds trick him at all. That's how he says everything I know that's that's the funny thing, but they knew how he talked and they decided to give him to throw him on Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful.
No, Christopher Walken's communication cadence is the equivalent of all scab and this musical cadence where everything's on the upbeat That that that that is the same thing with Christopher Walken. It just messes with you. He says it on the upbeat I'm sorry. That's adorable.
Oh my goodness. So the Foo Fighters were gonna be your best performance ever. No, no, what is it? Yeah, probably it's toto.
You're out of toto. Do you remember that's an old band Africa? Yeah, there you go. I mean that's one they're famous for but they're not a one-hit wonder not by any stretch of the imagination and it's a band I've been aware of for a long time.
I have some childhood memories of toto songs and Africa as a kid was just one of those The one that really well, let me ask the question instead of telling you Do you know any other songs by toto? I'll stop your head We had this conversation the other day before you went to the concert and you told me like three and I knew that the tunes But I didn't know the songs. Oh, we did. I'm sorry I didn't mean to double up the question here the reason I knew about toto do sing in Africa is because reliant K has a cover of Africa That's amazing.
Yes, it is and I went and listened to the rest. Oh, that's toto. I've never heard of toto So what are some of their songs weezer does a cover of Africa as well that in place of the guitar solo? It has weird al doing accordion solo.
It's delightful. The music video doesn't have river squamow in it and all the lead singers just all weird Al dressed up like rivers great that they do hold the line hold the line Love isn't always on time. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know like journey or something But okay, well, that's the other band that played at the show literally the show is toto and journey was it really? How can you do that? They do final countdown? No, no, no, you're thinking of Europe.
Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. No, it's all right There's no shame in that. No, there's a lot of shame in that No, come on.
I'm trying to let you off the hook. What is journey do they do a lot of journey does anyway you want it Oh, yeah, anyway, you want it. That's the way they do when the lights go down in the city Yeah, whatever that one is and then don't stop believing. That's their jolly ultra famous one.
What a concert dude Oh, it was so good and journey was good man, but they don't have Steve Perry anymore I mean, you know, it's 50 years of being a band things are gonna happen So they still have Neil Sean the guitarist and man, I can't remember the pianist's name at this point But they still have him. He's great. He's a guy who wrote the riff or don't stop believing Don't And so the show was wonderful, but they went and got they did like a reality TV show competition in 2006 2007 To replace Steve Perry who I think they're on okay terms with but this he's perry got injured and was kind of out of the game for a while Did some solo stuff and it just a lot happens in the 50 year history of the band and they got a kid from the Philippines I don't even think he was a native English speaker at that point who had just grown up idolizing Steve Perry and imitating his voice for fun in his bedroom And now he's literally the lead singer of journey and has been longer than Steve Perry was what and it was really fun to see him in person and See him do a thing. Yeah, it's crazy.
He's been doing it longer than Steve Perry. Yeah What is his name? Arnell Arnell Peneta something like that. I might be butchering the name But that's close.
He is on maybe year 17 as lead singer I think Steve Perry was there for maybe 13 years maybe 15 what so I mean, you know It's time goes fast. What are you gonna do and all the hits are from the Steve Perry era and Steve Perry made him famous And or is a big part of it So again, but it was really cool to see all that talent the journey show was a blast The lead singer did a lap around the bowl and high-fived everybody and he found my son and gave him a big high-fived Real friendly with him that was super exciting because my kids are growing up on this music They love this stuff and the lead singer ran up on stage and grabbed Neil Sean I mean you're talking about Rushmore of rock guitarists here grab his pick after he got done with the next solo He pointed out my son from on stage and grabbed the pick and had a roadie run the pick down to my son and he was just elated and magical That's amazing dude. That's awesome. What do you do with the pick?
Yeah Posed for a lot of pictures blushed got kind of embarrassed and thankful called everybody showed everybody and then we got home And he's like dad can we get a safe to put this in? Yes, we will we will find us safe to put this Safe deserves a safe. That's awesome. Yeah, but but the toto show my friend That was the most perfect musical performance.
I've ever seen live everything they do in the songs You've heard you've heard rosanna as well. Oh, I know you went awake in the morning and see you're at that I mean they can do that in real life and the lead singer or the two lead singers are phenomenal The one dude I didn't know this he wrote a bunch of the riffs for all the famous Michael Jackson stuff Like he's a guy who wrote the riff into the guitar for beat it And Just casually banged that out and the lead singer is john william son john william's the famous composer like star wars and jaws and all of that It was wonderful. It is the most impressed. I have ever been by musical artists in person.
It was a really wonderful experience That's awesome. Dude. That's amazing. I've been thinking a lot lately.
There's a lot of these artists that we grew up listening to that They're not gonna be around much longer like neil diamond dude. Yeah, neil diamond still tours Yeah, we have the option right now in our life to go to a neil diamond show and we should do it And if we don't do it, we'll never have the option again We will never have the option again. I have a computer that is internet connected over here and discreetly in the background I'm just gonna find out what it would look like as we're talking for us to go to that Neil diamond show How much does it cost? Dang.
Okay. Now there's like Neil diamond the musical kind of stuff happening What this is gonna take some research apparently somebody wrote a musical about neil diamond and that's the thing I don't know if he's doing concerts still neil diamond I sent my parents my sister and I sent my parents for y2k at the Pepsi center in den where they went to neil diamond And while the rest of us were obviously huddled in our bunkers waiting for the end of the planet My parents were just dancing and crushing on neil diamond and apparently it was wonderful Let's see get premium tickets get general. Okay last week's don't miss your chance to see a beautiful noise must end june 30th get general tickets Yeah, it seems to be a thing man. You can do it people noise the neil diamond musical.
Okay. I don't know Maybe that's not the old diamond. I don't know september morn we danced until the night became a brand new day I don't even know what these songs about but they're all like a guy I picture dude leaning next to a piano being seductive in the way people imagined being seductive in like 1961 And it working on women. That's what I picture when I picture neil diamond I don't know what those words mean, but people like it all I know is when neil diamond came on the tv My grandmother would get really quiet Anything about neil diamond, but I knew she liked that Oh my goodness Kind of the equivalent of the effect that sindy swiney on snl had on dads across the country last week apparently according to the internet The my mom feels the same way my my mom was always a huge fan of neil diamond magnum pi and spock.
Oh, yeah Those are the guys spot right there. Wait. I didn't know about magnum pi get my name. Oh, what yeah, okay?
I didn't see that one. I don't know she grew up in rapid city south of coda dude. It doesn't have to make sense Okay, all right I'm sorry See how much our trick reference I knew oh crap Well, it's a choose your own adventure because now we're a ways in I wanted to tell you about the concert thing I forgot we already talked about it to that extent whatever you get to hear a little bit about it twice and some new stuff But you got to choose your own adventure now because we're far enough in that we could talk a little bit more about music and go into shows Or we could talk about the thing that I wanted to talk with you about which I think you might really like I think it's really interesting I think you're gonna have opinions. Well, let's do that one.
So you pick. Let's do that one. Okay, fair enough Okay, for pain. You mentioned that earlier.
Is that a touristy town or is the only attraction in for pain? Alabama that the band Alabama is from there that's pretty much it It used to be the sock capital of the world that used to have a lot of sock mills there not far from that area up in your mint Tones place called de Soto falls There's a lot of hiking and things of that nature in that area if you go up really far north you can get to Chattanooga You can go to rock city. Okay, that's probably the closest tourist thing. Yeah, okay.
There we go Yeah, rock city you and I have been there together. Yeah, and that is that's kind of a touristy area up there on lookout mountain Don't you have some sort of ethnically German or Swiss style town in Georgia? Yeah near there Helen Georgia What does that place called Helen Jordan? Yeah, I haven't been what's it about?
Um, basically what what seems to have happened is they created a covenant Everybody agreed to build their buildings in the style of Bavarian like black forest style German architecture It's really cool the Chattahoochee River goes right through the river. We call it shooting the hooch I went down yonder there once yeah, yeah, I'm here at a camp at the pelman line Yeah, throw back there you can go shoot the hooch which is you go to one side of the town you pay a few bucks They rent you a tube and you just float the hooch all the way to the other end and then you get on this old school bus and they take you back to your car It's amazing. That's actually the name of the activity is shooting the hooch. Yeah, you want to shoot the hooch Yeah, that's what you call it.
It sounded better when you said it like that Yeah, it is I would say like top 10 family activities you can do it's amazing And so there are parts of the the village that overlook the Chattahoochee And so you can like eat schnitzel at this little I don't know like a little it is a restaurant But it's a weird like picnic style restaurant And it's got an awning overlooking the river about 20 feet up and you have all these people that your chairs will face the river on like a bar And everybody's just looking at all these goofballs going down the river and in these tubes and you're down on the tube being like hey, man How's the wiener schnitzel huh? And they're like oh, it's great. Good. That looks cold.
Yeah, it's cold. It's fun dude. It's a lot of fun That's pretty obvious. Yeah, that place sounds wonderful.
I love that kind of stuff Yeah, a lot of blown glass that kind of is the Germanness of that in any way connected to the Germanness Around Huntsville that goes back to the bumbron era and stuff like that. I don't think so it feels different Maybe it is but no it Huntsville's very much. I mean these were people from Germany that came over from pinamunda You know they were German rocket scientists for working for the Nazis that came over So it's a very different thing you mentioned tourists It's one of those towns where you go in and you go on one store and they're like blowing glass you go in another store They're making taffy. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Okay. That's exactly it I suppose you've got pigeon forage there as well. That would be a really touristy town. Oh, yeah That's within striking distance, right?
That's what it's called the one by great smoky mountain national park Yeah, pigeon forage. Yeah, and gap. Yeah. Do you like towns like that?
Do you like the overtly touristy town? So they kind of wear you out. That's a good question. So it's kind of a We were driving on a dad venture had all the kids and um a brief story here So we were have I ever told you about the uh about the dream catcher?
I've already told you this you have you told us about the dream catcher Okay. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, so that was Cherokee, North Carolina It's a weird vibe like I like the town.
I like the experience because you're there and you're like I'm just kind of chilling out doing whatever but still there's a ton of people trying to take advantage of you The dream catcher which hangs on my wall at home as a as an ode to that dad venture We took it's kind of a which for the third chair members who did not hear that conversation or don't recall it You sort of struck a bargain with your kids to teach them a lesson and it resulted in you purchasing an expensive dream catcher You did not want correct from Cherokee, North Carolina from a Jewish up. Yeah. Yeah, and they said hey This is $99 can we have it for 30? It's like oh no This is hand-painted and you look at it and you're like clearly this eagle with lightning bolts is not The running joke was before we came to Cherokee, North Carolina Look at the whole bus full of kids and said hey, this is the kind of town we're going to Cherokee, North Carolina.
There's gonna be tourist stuff. We're gonna roll up There's gonna be like this this whole store with Native American art and there's gonna be like a dream catcher with an eagle with lightning bolts in the back That's the only thing I would consider buying everything else You know all the leather holsters and like leather jackets with fritt, you know Tassles and stuff you don't need any of that But if you find an eagle dream catcher with lightning bolts in the back you should actually consider it and we rolled up and sure enough We walk in front center that specific dream catcher that I spoke into existence was right in the door when we walked in And it was like normally $200 right now $99.95. That's a shocking like good deal I know right I went across the street and the kids ended up buying it for me and they're like So how does this work? And they asked the guy and he goes oh it uh it catches the hip hanias The thetans What is that?
The hip hanias like it catches them? No, I mean the hyponias speak to you through the drink and we were just like okay great And so we got it and we actually $100 We were able to get the price tag on it as well Like we said we would buy it as long as you allow us to keep the tag that says the price on it because it's like a used car kind of thing So I like the experience. I don't like being taken advantage of by all those people What do you ask? There's a conversation it's really a recurring conversation that occurs on the internet Really anywhere where people have conversations.
I've seen it on reddit repeatedly every six months You know how they're these repeated conversations are really what podcasts do you all like? Yeah, or what's the thing you used to like but now you hate the same questions it works over and over again There's one ongoing thread that people keep having and keep repeating about tourist traps What are your favorite ones? What are the worst ones? Today I actually took the time and I read a little bit of it and it got me thinking All right, I'm not sure I sense that in this thread you all have properly defined what a tourist trap is And I think that affects the conversation and I I want to bounce question off of you What to you is the difference between a tourist destination and a tourist trap?
Oh wow, okay Well, that's a great question. That's a great question I think a tourist trap is based on the idea that a fool and his money are easily parted When you get people at a town they're going somewhere for a tourist thing So if I know I'm going to have people in a location and they're out of their element They're out of their comfort zone, but they do need necessities or maybe they're you know I can convince them that they should buy this thing because they are happier than normal because they're not thinking about work Their guard is down. I can take advantage of them I think that is a tourist trap And so a tourist destination would be a thing like klingman's dome in in Tennessee or what's that thing out there where you're at? Devil's Tower?
Is that near you? Yeah, this important this means something Yeah, so these things that you want to go see are very interesting But while you're there, there's all this other stuff And you're like you have a lot of downtime at that point in time You can take advantage of people there's this place in Peru that you can go and there's a little market that'll pop up at this one location And it's usually right near the place that gets on their taxi to go to the airport, right? Okay, so this market has all these trinkets and it's like I've got a little piranha in the other room And so what we always do is we wait and we we buy our little the bracelet We're gonna give your daughter we get home kind of thing we buy that in a keto So we don't buy that in Lima because in Lima the prices are crazy and in a keto's people actually make them A lot of the goods you see at these little markets, they're made in China some of them are They make them in China. Well one of the most interesting things I saw recently we were in Italy for a 20th anniversary Which was amazing.
I don't think we've talked about that yet. That's weird. I don't think we have we intended to I still don't know What happened on your trip because we're gonna talk about it here and save it for the third chair and then I still don't know what happened months ago This episode of No Dumb Questions is brought to you by the patrons who support this program Which is wild because you don't have to because I mean it's free so theoretically nobody has to do anything But weirdly a bunch of you do and we super appreciate that because I mean it helps a ton and makes this thing work So thank you everybody who does that you don't have to but it's awesome If you want to learn more about that go patreon.com slash no dumb questions or not. That's cool too.
Either way. Thanks for listening back to the conversation We were in this town called sarento. They said hey what sarento is known for is Marketry which is in laying wood you take colored woods and you inlay them like puzzle pieces and you can make art using nothing But dyed woods or in some cases natural wood color sure I can picture it. I didn't know that name Yeah, imagine a flower in really light wood like maple and inlay that in a walnut veneer When we're in sarento they're like oh, yeah, all these fantastic arts are made here in sarento You've got to buy something here while you're here It was kind of a half and half thing there were actually workshops around the area that did this But there were a lot of tourist traps and you would notice that all the products look the same Yeah, and so they were all selling the same thing So there's probably one factory somewhere that does all this with cnc machines or something But as they're doing it, they're selling it wholesale to all these other people So it kind of felt like a manufactured when people come to this town on their way to you know The coast they'm off the coast or on their way to pompey or wherever they're going If they stop here for at night our goal is to sell them this thing It feels like an industry based purely on tourism.
I don't know if this is answering your question is that what you're getting at What's that? Do you feel like sarento was a tourist trap then? To some extent most of Italy is a tourist trap Okay, but let me offer a counterpoint to that How sad would Italians be if people quit coming other than the money? How sad would Romans be if tourists quit showing up there and walking in groups of 80 All waiting yellow flags so that they know where they're supposed to be in order and snapping the same selfies in front of the same Iconic places.
I don't think they'd be that sad. Do you? No, you're right They wouldn't I think they were irritated people in Italy were irritated that other people were there In fact, I know they were Part of the backdrop for them at a physical confrontation at one point. Yeah.
Yeah us too. Uh golly I don't know if somewhere like that counts as a tourist trap in my mind. We're gonna talk about Italy later, right? We're not gonna do that.
Yeah, let's say we can do that for our very next conversation because I know we have notes to compare and we felled off on that But okay, that's an iconic major center of global trade and culture and art. It's a huge population center I don't think that qualifies as a tourist trap I think a tourist trap could exist within a city But it's a town that exists only to siphon off tourist money and there's no other product made by that particular town There's no other reason for it to exist. Do you think that's a fair distinction? Yeah?
Yeah, absolutely. What would you say is the worst tourist trap you've ever experienced? Oh, that's a good question Have you been to estas park, Colorado? No estas park is a no I can't compare it to pigeon forage It's quinter than pigeon forage Niagara Falls Niagara Falls is horrible There's no reason for that to exist I've seen Niagara Falls, but I have not seen any of the tourist trap stuff We just went up on a bus and then we immediately got back on the bus and left So okay, I haven't seen all the touristy stuff there.
Okay. No, I want to change my answer. I don't think it's an Niagara Falls I think Vegas is the worst tourist trap of anything that has ever been invented by humankind Yeah, the whole point was to move it out into a desert where nothing touches it where it feels like you're an exotic faraway place Where just the locale and the mystique drives a wedge between you and your usual moral standards and expectations I mean they even branded it that way what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas that was 20 years ago But they branded that way. I think that is the island of lost boys I think that is the greatest of wool and his money is our soon part of achievement in all of human history what say you Yeah, I don't like it.
I don't like it. Now. There's some things in Vegas that are interesting They have this really cool. I think it's near Vegas It's like a power generation facility that's nothing but mirrors that they're shining sunlight up at a sterling engine and that's fascinating I assume that's on the stuff that's on the five going down toward Southern California.
Yes. I believe so you see it from the interstate there, right? Yep. Yeah, it's amazing.
Yeah, that doesn't feel like a tourist trap. No, so that's cool That's amazing. But certainly the casinos my goodness, man I mean that's the only reason they exist is because they're trying to get people's money I mean there's really no product. I was in Vegas not long ago for work and I remember thinking man I've got it.
I've got to be like I think it was like 5 a.m. I have to be on the airplane and so I remember thinking man I've got a sleep and a casino because that was the cheapest we could find hotel. Yeah, or the cheapest reasonable hotel we could find And so I did that and I could just feel like temptation all around me. I remember getting there and I was like I'm hungry I've got to eat well I'm gonna go find a burger So I went and found the Shake Shack but in order to get to the Shake Shack I had to walk down the street and I passed so much stuff and it just felt like you know the prodigal son It felt like you were walking and you're everybody wants to get your money and it just feels gross, man Before you and I knew each other I lived there you remember that right and I briefly lived in Vegas I do I do well.
That's on that rocky the drug stopper And yeah, Shelby's nickel I woke off. Yeah, did you like living there? No, I really didn't and there are people I care about who live there I just don't want to wholesale trash the town because there's community there and some good people I know got produced entirely my buddy Shelby that town made him and Shelby is a saint that he's just a wonderful dude I wouldn't say rocky is a product of there. He's my dear friend as well.
He's a product of the south down by you He is an absolute gentleman. That's his thing. I don't think he learned that in Vegas But I've seen Vegas produce good things my daughter was born in Las Vegas I have fond memories of all of that But there seemed to be something really off about that place for the most part in terms of how people thought about themselves Their neighbors being invested there when I lived there they were tearing down casinos They made I mean 15 or 20 years earlier they cost a bajillion dollars But hey the shine has come off of it and that real estate is too valuable tear down build something else in its place Really? Yeah, well, I think about you're building things that are like art They're meant to sort of give you the vibe of art, but they're not so like here's a cheap version of the Eiffel Tower Aladdin's castle Aladdin's palace.
There's a casino there called Aladdin's it was right next to Paris across the street from the Bellagio back when I lived there And it's gone now it went away while I was there just after and it was really cool It was elaborate It was all sort of this Arabian nights kind of theme and they just tore the whole thing down or replace it with something else It's unbelievable money that it costs to destroy a thing that cost unbelievable money That tells you what the product is there I mean the money tells the story if it's worth it to do that with something you just got done building a few years earlier Then it tells you what the product actually is the product is what misplaced hope The product is chaos that your mundane life is going to have an element of chaos introduced to it while you're here Maybe good chaos maybe bad chaos. I don't know what's going to happen while you're in Vegas But something will happen while you're in Vegas Maybe the product is getting to explore a different maybe more debauched version of yourself To just see what that person would have been like and then hope that no consequences will follow I don't know the product is intangible there though, right? Because you don't get anything I don't know what you're making that what would you say the product is man your phrase misplaced hope that hit me pretty hard That's deep dude the product is It's like it's like a brief shot of dopamine Or here come in here and put your money in this little thing right here on this number And then we're gonna do this little thing over here and then you might get some endorphins out of this I don't even know how how the brain chemicals work, but it feels like you're chasing a temporary high Yeah, that's weird It's also weird for me to think that I did some work in the early 2000s there or mid 2000s And it makes me think that you might have been living there while I was running to the airport or something like that We were kind of passing each other by like ships in the night. Oh, we certainly were I lived right by that airport That was my favorite thing about Vegas man.
Mcarron from my house to the airport Yeah, Mcarron airport is like two minutes and it's just right there in town All the other airports you have to go through all this rigamarole but Vegas they want you to feel like you can get in and out of there Cheap and fast quick security quick turnaround cheap flight that goes to small and mid-sized towns all over the place It's a living in Vegas. Oh, goodness. You could take advantage. It's the gateway to the whole planet It was wonderful.
What do you mean? I was so grateful for that and I miss it because Mcarron I mean all those flights go the other way as well, right? So you just buy flights out to interesting places all over the world and you can get there so cheap and so fast It was wonderful. Oh, that's interesting and the design to get you in there Just even the exit ramps and what the interstate does to get you in there It was so fast.
You could leave for the airport 45 minutes early and make your flight You could have air access to the whole country, but not have to live at LAX right and LAX is way less convenient than Mcarron Yeah, that was awesome. Okay, that's interesting very interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and the nature there was cool And you know I kind of mocked the art that was there Let me clarify that a little bit I still want to ridicule the quote unquote art because all of those casinos are meant to give you the impression of art This is like Caesar's palace.
This is like Rome. This is like Paris This is like Venice. There's a lot of Italian theme there Obviously because where casinos come from but all of that art is meant to make you feel more self-assured of your knowledge of the world and control of the world None of that art does what art is actually supposed to do Which is challenge and force you to listen to someone else going to observe art is to listen Fundamentally you are hearing great art is a true expression of what somebody else is or what they're thinking or what they're doing Even if you don't share the conclusions or the view on the world when you consume their art or observe their art You are hearing them at a very deep level That's part of why art is so important It's a great way to listen to and understand and feel empathy to other people because of both the limitations of time and our inability to really listen and hear In why the words don't even accomplish art transcends that and you feel other people even across time It's a an amazing vital part of what it is to be a human being Vegas bastardizes all of that It's kitsch it destroys art. I think somebody very wise once said something like that I think it was Oscar Nunez from the office the art there doesn't challenge you it makes you feel comfortable and good about where you are It's all a lotus.
It's meant to just a little you to sleep so you spend your money But the shows that happen in Vegas and all of those theaters Well, that's different There's some pretty cool stuff that happens there because I mean legitimately great artists perform legitimately great art and perform amazing beats at these different shows So there's good stuff about it whenever Vegas comes up and you and I talk about it I feel like I just want to crap all over it and I think that's part fair but not entirely fair I can remember being more mad at Vegas than any other city. Well, that's not true Uh, I was robbed three times in one day in three towns here So what I think I knew about one Okay, that's pretty bad. I mean robbed is a strong word But like I was taking advantage of people were like I bought a coconut restaurant and they're like, oh, that'll be $10 like no It's not so that's technically they robbed me but things like that But anyway, um, I remember being more mad at Vegas than any other city up to that point in my life My daughter was born and you know in your 20s when you really want to make a name for yourself Yeah, I do you try so very hard and you do all the things and I remember my daughter was born It was amazing and then I was like well, there's this meeting I have to go to because I'm the youngest guy in this group And it's a group of very important people doing very important things and I I just got to go like the fact that I'm in the group is An honor and yeah, I gotta go and so I remember going out there and being in the meetings and my daughter wasn't even a week old And I remember at one point the meeting being angry at myself for making this decision and valuing this over being at home And then I remember changing my flight or something to get home a day early and then being in the airport line in Vegas and just being angry I was angry at Vegas, but I think I was also angry at myself, which probably happens a lot in Vegas But I remember the night before we had gone out to eat as a group or something like that And we'd gone to like a steakhouse there's a place there that had really good steak or something And I remember we walked through I wanted to walk through a casino because I didn't gamble or anything But I wanted to see it so we went through the Venetian I believe isn't that a name of a casino? Yeah, it imitates art.
It's a light card. Mm-hmm And I remember looking at a statue and thinking oh wow, that's a nice statue And then realizing it was fiberglass and I had plaster over the top of fiberglass and thinking wow This is not even an inch deep the beauty of this place is so fake like everything about this is fake And I remember having this little I wasn't quite an existential crisis But thinking about like going after this part of the career that I was trying to do as well Which brought me out there which took me away from my family and I was like man that huh It was just this whole thing like I had fallen for a lot of tricks in a row one of which was prestige and honor among men Another was looking at the beauty of this place So very badly wanting to be home with my new daughter and my wife I just remember a very very very deep sense of sadness there and anger at myself. I remember that There's this thing that happens when you fall for a tourist trap There's this guilt and regret or you know some people are like oh, that was fine. Whatever Well, we'll put 20 bucks on red whatever we can blow the money it doesn't matter But but I end up feeling like a fool and I feel like I have I don't know I feel a sense of guilt when I fall for something that's silly I can't even remember what it was but I remember seeing something that would be interesting Like the the old trope is you go to a circus and they're like come see the whatever You know the werewolf man or whatever and you give your five dollars and you go in and it's somebody in a suit or something You know, yeah sure that feeling when you leave and you're like well The terms of the deal where I give you money and you show me the thing and technically you did what you said you were gonna do It was just not what you sold me whenever I fall for something like that.
I feel dirty good word for it Wow, that's how I felt coming out of Vegas. That's why I stopped being a Christian for a while really Yeah, it got me that hard. It's bad bad bad experience all of it everything about it I felt like I got duped. I felt like I made mistakes.
I felt guilty. I felt dirty I felt embarrassed. I felt like I've said this many times I've come around to a point of realizing I have a lot more ownership of that weird little chapter in my life than I cared to admit back then I see more clearly where my own immaturity is at fault for why that didn't work as well as it could have as well as external things But those emotions you just said because I remember I have a story as well of a brand new little baby girl that changed my life and taught me Out of Love and I'm stuck in Vegas and I'm loading things up to leave and I'm pretty disgusted with the whole thing and that story well Huh? You know what?
I think you and I were in that town that exact same time having the exact same feelings going through the exact same thing Really? I think I was going through that like yeah, I know how old your kid is and I can I can do the math on all of this That's wild. We were having that same experience in the same place at the same time long before we ever knew each other That's wild but that I got duped that kind of guilty blamey dirty This was a waste kind of feeling that's how I feel as well And there are three things that'll make me feel that one is what we're talking about feeling like I got duped in a trap or a tourist trap Another is I felt it when I was a kid and I would mow along I'd get five bucks And we didn't have any video game systems in the house was my parents rules. We just didn't do it at play my friends house I weren't against video games.
We just weren't gonna buy one. We weren't gonna have one. We were gonna read books and whatever So if I got five bucks, I would want to ride my bike to the mall Which is so funny that I could ride my bike all the way across the city of 125,000 people to the mall in the late 1980s My parents were like great. Well, don't get murdered.
That's awesome and later. I would come home and that was no problem I had five total dollars for the entire trip and no cell phone and my other friends would ride their bikes from wherever they lived To meet me at the mall and I would take that five dollar bill and I'd agonize over it But I would eventually decide to put the whole five dollar bill into the token changer Because you get a little you get a couple bonus tokens for that And then I would feel the number of quarters in my pocket or tokens in my pocket going down As I burned through lives and fought space aliens and did whatever I did with video games until finally I reached in my pocket And there were none left and then I was just sick and I would leave and I remember those bike rides home feeling like what did I get for that? I worked so hard for that five bucks I exerted an energy to ride my bike over here and it was a fun hour sort of but it was mostly filled with dread because I knew what I was doing And now the time has gone and I have nothing I have zero dollars in my pocket now And it was same thing. I feel taken like I got duped myself And then the other time where I feel that I still feel today, buddy I feel it when I get on a waterfall app the only one of those that I currently use at all is twitter x I don't do much anything on reddit anymore.
I don't have anything on facebook I mean there's 10-5 hours stuff on facebook, but I don't run any of that and somebody else does it So the only one I have the only waterfall app is x If I get lost or get a little kick and get going on that and 30 or 45 minutes later I come to and I realize what I've just done I feel sick. I feel disgusted with myself like I just got tricked. I got duped I have nothing to show for that time. It's gone.
I could have been with my kids I could have been reading a book I could have taken ground on a project. I could have done anything And instead I'm still the idiot 11 year old kid that mose the lawn and uses his precious time To burn through those precious tokens in his pocket on the stupid video game and then you got nothing on the other end It's just a video game has turned into the tokens are time the tokens are time dude Dude, that is a masterful You set me up for an hour to tell me that that social media is a tourist trap That's why I feel dirty in the tokens are time Dang Whitman. That was good, man. Good job.
We got there. I wanted to talk about toto a lot That took longer than I was thinking but that's good It's also why I asked you the question that what's the distinction between a tourist tourist trap and a tourist destination because a tourist destination That can be art that can be empathy and growth you talked about the nature around fort pain and going to the waterfall and shooting the hooch That's a phenomenal phrase, but those things you're doing something you're active you're participating in the world in nature or you're consuming Art and in doing so hold on to other people. That's why childhood felt so good We were kings dude. We were kings keep going We could ride our bike up the street where Jeremy Bryant made a portable lemonade stand that we would pedal power and we would go down And we would sell lemonade on the street and we didn't have anything to take our tokens We were kings man.
We tried our bikes. We could build ramps. That's awesome. It was awesome Well said kings is a good term for it.
Yeah, and I don't feel good when something takes my crown But nothing takes it. I give it up voluntarily too often and yeah I felt like the thread on reddit that made me want to talk to you about this I feel like it always has the same problem though in the the build of it It's that they like and beautiful things to go see and interesting places full of culture and art and beauty to tourist traps And they're not the same. The one is a trick. The other is exactly what it says it is and more So wall drug south dakota It's kind of a tourist trap, but it's also exactly what it says it is And what it is the value proposition there is it's a break on a long miserable boring drive across a flat boring interstate And you're gonna come here and we're gonna make fun of the very idea of tourist traps by having free water And the stupidest biggest gift shop you've ever seen ever for no reason And it's not going to be terribly expensive.
We don't even need to take anything from you It has a charm to it Then they're dirtier tourist traps like some of the ones that we've talked about where they're our predatory habits I think of Manuel Antonio national park in Costa Rica The park is great But driving up all of these liars stand outside and use whistles and orange vests to try to get unsuspecting people who don't speak the language To pull over and pay them exorbitant amounts of money for parking they don't need because they've never been to the park before and they're never going back That's exploitative. That's a tourist trap I don't like that one But other things that inspire your sense of wonder and it's a fair trade and you feel good about the tokens that left your pocket and the tokens that are still in there And what you got for it? Okay, well, that's different that builds you up That's part of the experience and the adventure of life You just feel gross when you drain the tokens in your pocket for absolutely nothing either literally or metaphorically as is the case with social media All right, here's what you just did to me. So all right, I got through these phases I remember we when we took the trip out west I deleted like a bunch of apps off my phone And I'm just very much gonna be present.
I'm trying to work on my dissertation now for school Thank you. It's very very difficult because I'm used to the feedback cycle of I'm gonna work on this video for several weeks and then upload it And then oh wow cool. I got the gratification of uploading the video, right? Well, dissertations aren't like that.
They take forever And so you don't get that feedback instant gratification kind of feel it's not instant You know what I mean? You felt that yeah as you're sitting or talking about tokens I've had this dirty feeling recently when I'm pulling up my social media apps and just swiping My drug of choice is reddit instagram and x and I'll just kind of swipe I was talking about this George my handle just go for the phone You made me just delete those they're gone. I just deleted them off my phone really yeah I pick up my phone a lot right now now. I'll put them back on eventually.
I think I kept read it off my phone for I want to say a year and a half or so last time cool I don't know how long I'll keep it off right now But I just deleted them for the time being so if I want to access them I have to go to a laptop or computer So that'll prevent me from going straight there. So that's what you did to me. Thanks That's funny that you said that because somewhere in the middle of this just casually in the background I was like I can't even add this conversation while I still have x on my phone I have everything else is gone. I don't have any other apps And so just reel discreetly while we were talking I was like yeah I'm just gonna make it go away right now and I went over here and pulled it up and I removed it and then you went and told me that So that's kind of funny.
That's uh currently came to some similar conclusions Did you really I did yeah, it's that literally just happened maybe 10 minutes ago in the conversation Okay, cool. So we both did it without telling each other. That's cool. That is correct.
Yeah. Yeah, this conversation Makes us better. I think yeah, maybe so I guess for a short period of time at least until we decide to put this back on our phones will be feeling less dirty Yeah, I think there can be a right relationship with these things I mean the whole point that the conversation for me was not to be like social media is bad And I'm gonna delete this app. I'm a crusader against social media It's just this general sense of malaise that I have felt a texture of a bad feeling that's unique that I've felt at a few different times in my life And I felt it when I was going through this thread that I was reading about tourist traps And I thought about the arcade thing I had a conversation with a friend where that came up a while back I thought huh those two emotions felt similar leaving vegas felt similar and well Getting caught by the lotus the white lotus that makes you lose track of time and forget who you are and where you are And the toxic chemicals and smells that come from the magical lotus in mythology that make you forget and lose yourself That lotus discussed.
I also feel over social media And I think it's all related. I think it's all a similar sadness and malaise that all of those things have given me And I kind of wanted to mentally separate them out a little bit from things that are fun and life giving like travel and adventure And you know what if I go to a place that's beautiful I didn't bring a towel or some dumb flip-flops and I need that I'm glad someone is selling it that to me is I got no problem with that That's great But that's in service of a good thing whereas these other things I think are often more Consuming and maybe feeling empty and like you lost something you can't get back. Huh? Well, thank you Thank you for the edifying conversation.
I think I'm gonna go to my sense baseball game now So thank you happy baseball game. See you buddy later