184 - Family Shop to Scalable Success: John White on Trust, Numbers, and Leadership

184 - Family Shop to Scalable Success: John White on Trust, Numbers, and Leadership December 16, 2025 - 01:05:05   Show Summary: After leaving for college and returning unexpectedly, John worked his way from the shop floor into leadership, eventually purchasing the business in early 2024. He explains how focusing on KPIs, especially gross profit per hour, transformed profitability while maintaining transparency and trust with customers.They also discusses digital vehicle inspections, the real cost of running a shop, and why presenting full repair information matters more than winning every sale. John closes with his vision for scaling to $4–5 million and opening a second location while elevating employees and the industry as a whole.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Johnathan White, Owner of Phil's Pro Auto Service Show Highlights: [00:02:05] – First car memory restoring a 1970 Datsun 240Z. [00:04:48] – Growing up in the shop felt rough and unstructured. [00:06:20] – Left for college, returned to the shop unexpectedly. [00:09:25] – Shift from technician mindset to shop leadership. [00:11:12] – Daily focus on KPIs like gross profit per hour. [00:13:36] – Presenting full repair needs builds long-term trust. [00:16:23] – Customers underestimate true shop overhead costs. [00:22:53] – Mindset training triggered major business growth. [00:29:18] – Mission built on transparency and community trust. [00:55:41] – Best advice: have hard succession conversations early. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea : Hello, friends. This is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Jonathan White. Jonathan Jonathan is with Bills Pro Auto Service out of Greeley, Colorado. Jonathan, how the heck are you, brother?   Johnathan White : I'm doing pretty good. Pretty unusually warm for winter. It is, isn't it? It's so weird. Are you. Have you had.   Jimmy Lea : Any snow yet?   Johnathan White : Yeah, like a dusting here. And then where I live, just a little bit north, we got, like, four inches. That's it.   Jimmy Lea : And is it gone now? It's already melted.   Johnathan White : Yeah. I mean, the next day.   Jimmy Lea : But yeah, we melted by lunch. We've had three dusting, but nothing serious. Nothing that's going to keep you out of school. Yeah, it's it's really weird. It's really weird. Now, Jonathan, I've known you as Jonathan for a very long time, and I noticed that you are have your name badge on. And you are John. Are you John White?   Johnathan White : I do go by John. Yeah. I only got the name Jonathan, when I was younger, when I was in trouble, so. Well, John, you are not.   Jimmy Lea : You are not in trouble, brother. I am so excited for you to be here with me today, so we can have just this awesome conversation about about you, about your business, about where you've come up from in the industry. And you are not in trouble. Is that okay?   Johnathan White : Sounds good.   Jimmy Lea : Good, good. So what I'm looking for here, Jonathan, to start our conversation. The automotive industry is such a wonderful industry to be in. There's so much opportunity for many people of many different walks. And I'd love to go back in your story. And in fact, I don't even know. I want to know how you got into the business first yet.   Jimmy Lea : But I do want to know what is your first car memory that hooked you? What is that moment? That mentor or that problem that you solved on a car? That said, oh, I like.   Johnathan White : This.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So at our, our older location, when I was growing up, because I grew up in the industry, there was a 1970 Datsun to 40 Z. And, I had the pleasure of taking two cars into one car and shot.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, that's an awesome car, dude.   Johnathan White : It was, it was a lot of fun sanding it, priming it all that stuff.   Jimmy Lea : You went for the full resto restoration?   Johnathan White : Yeah, when I was. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Okay. How old were you?   Johnathan White : 12 to 16. Wow.   Jimmy Lea : This is a four year love story. Yeah. Do you still have the car?   Johnathan White : I don't know now. Got rid of it. Yeah. I was cleaning out the back barn, basically, which had two of these that my dad had acquired over the years, and one of them was wrecked and the other one wasn't, and one had a bad motor and the other one didn't. And so that's kind of kind of the story with that.   Jimmy Lea : So I'm guessing the wrecked one had a good motor. Yeah. The good motor went into the.   Johnathan White : The other one. Well what.   Jimmy Lea : What color did you paint your.   Johnathan White : Truck. It was that orange color that you.   Jimmy Lea : The 1970s disco.   Johnathan White : Orange. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.   Jimmy Lea : Dude, that is so rad. What year was this car again?   Johnathan White : 1970   Jimmy Lea : 70. My mother graduated high school in 69. She graduated college in 73. Two, three, three. And her graduation present was to be, 243.   Johnathan White : This is this is a cool car. Back then, it was really cool. All right. Next to it in the barn was also a 1967, Mercury Cougar. Oh, so with a 427 coverage jet engine in it. The barely fit.   Jimmy Lea : No doubt. Do you still have it? Is it still in the barn?   Johnathan White : That so? That was my. That was my dad's baby. And, he sold that. He never drove it. So I always wanted to fix it up more and then got rid of it. I want to say 20.   Johnathan White : 2013 ish. Somewhere around there, he felt that it was never getting used and it was just sitting in the back. So. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : What good is it as a paperweight? Who enjoys that? You enjoyed the memory of it. You've got it in your collection. But I, I agree, I agree. Yeah. Get it out there into the world. Let people enjoy it. So what was it like growing up around the family business?   Johnathan White : Be honest, it was pretty terrible. As with a lot of the automotive trade, you have a bunch of technicians that get into the business that don't really have business knowledge, and they don't know what they don't know, and they don't run it necessarily correct it correctly. So, that was rough. I mean, the shop was my babysitter.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, ouch.   Johnathan White : I grew up, you know, every summer I was at the shop all day, every day. Because that was where, you know, my parents could afford childcare. And when I was younger, that's that's why I went.   Jimmy Lea : Wow, dude. So, the shop was cheaper than daycare. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. And and you're talking about pops?   Johnathan White : Yep.   Jimmy Lea : Pops was a phenomenal technician, but just lacked the business acumen.   Johnathan White : Yep, yep. And, he took training and stuff like that. And the problem is, he was bad about understand the problem, but he never would implement solutions. It is a lot of other things, right? I'm not. Yeah, that there was things that just the business side of it running profitably. Things like that, but wasn't there. So I really grew up to disdain the shop.   Johnathan White : I didn't like it. Then when I turned 18, I left town and got away.   Jimmy Lea : Nice. Where'd you go? What'd you do?   Johnathan White : I went to CSU's, studied engineering and business, and had friends graduating with degrees with thousands of dollars debt. And luckily, I had gotten some scholarships and stuff like that and saved up money through working, through high school and stuff like that, that I didn't have a lot of debt. And, I basically couldn't get a job, went to work at the shop as a fallback and kind of never left.   Johnathan White : So.   Jimmy Lea : Oh my word. So you're, you have an engineering degree and a business degree.   Johnathan White : I do not have an engineering degree. I oh, I was a engineering major. I got to statics and kind of didn't like that. And so I had the business minor that turned into a major.   Jimmy Lea : Very good. Yeah, I my business calculus class and business trigonometry was like. What?   Johnathan White : I can see it. I can put my hands on it. I can understand it. It was the, very abstract, you know, imagine force vector on this imaginary thing. And it's, it was it was something that I was struggling with. So I'm really good with seeing a problem and being able to touch the problem and figuring it out that way.   Johnathan White : So, and that's kind of where my love for cars came from. And, I started working at the shop and went up through the ranks, and then I started racing and.   Jimmy Lea : Whoa, hold the hold the phone. I didn't know you had a racing career. Are you serious?   Johnathan White : That was with,   Jimmy Lea : Would you race with NASA?   Johnathan White : And, were you driving? Yep. Dude, I did, time trials and I also did, autocross and I was super competitive locally, not so much nationally. There's a lot of really good drivers that show up to the nationals, like, props showed up one year. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of very good talent.   Johnathan White : Show up. And so I would kind of usually get my, get wiped off.   Jimmy Lea : You get your booty kicked. Pretty.   Johnathan White : Much. Oh my gosh. But it was a it was a really good learning experience. Obviously, I, I was constantly at the shop tinkering with the car after hours and things like that. So, and I always enjoyed conquering the problem and figuring stuff out. So yeah, I kind of just grew up with, through the, through the shop and can grow and learn more about the business and then I eventually took over the business.   Jimmy Lea : So what's that point? What's the point where you you you're welcome back to reality and you learn that lesson that you go from working in the shop to leading the shop.   Johnathan White : Right? So that's, one that takes a lot of personal growth. And I'm still working on that, leadership aspect. I know that's a deficiency of mine, but, I'm really good with numbers and, and all that aspect. So I've been able to grow the shop a lot. And luckily I've been able to hire well and have a good team in that regard.   Jimmy Lea : The team is so important, isn't it? The team is so important. And numbers come easy to you. Is that from your, engineering background, or is that more.   Johnathan White : I'm always in the background. Yeah. So I've always been really good with math. So. Okay, that's one of the subjects that really came easy to me. So I just, I always like numbers and diving in the numbers and figuring out what they equal and how to manipulate them to get the result I want and things like that.   Johnathan White : I've always enjoyed. So. Oh, that's so awesome. You know, the, companies that have come out that provide a lot of data where you can dig into things, how manipulate data. I've always really enjoyed where I can, I can kind of go down a rabbit hole of looking at numbers sets and figuring out medians and, you know, all the KPIs that we study as a, as a business.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah. What are some of those KPIs that you like to dig into that you what's a daily that you look at. And then a weekly and and then definitely the monthly. So we've got three different areas that you're looking at. Because a lot of shop owners really don't pay attention to the numbers. But once a month or maybe when it's time for payroll, what's that daily KPI, the weekly, what do you look at.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So we have a weekly, target goal of what we want to hit as far as sales per per week. But we also look at, you know, average row, median row, which is way different. GP per hour is probably the biggest one more so than GP percentages. You know, average quote hours per hour. So, close ratio.   Johnathan White : Okay. Yeah. Those are the probably the big ones I really watch.   Jimmy Lea : And you're watching this on the weekly basis.   Johnathan White : I know I watch it every day.   Jimmy Lea : Oh is that okay. This is the daily.   Johnathan White : So every week I review where we're at and kind of have like a report card for the week. Yes.   Jimmy Lea : Yep. And where do you pull this data from.   Johnathan White : So the data gets pulled out of my shop management system. But I use, Octo Rocket to go deep diving down the rabbit hole. If I really, you know, see, like a tech quote that's off base. So where we normally end up or it's too high to low, I'll look into each individual ticket. I'll you know, look into what our close ratio was on those tickets.   Johnathan White : Figure out where we can improve. You know, our problem with our industry. Right now is it's a good problem. But most cars are getting a higher mileage Iron age, which means you're having higher and higher tech quotes because cars are getting worn out. And then we we build up everything. We present everything. But you have to be very careful how you present that, especially to a new customer.   Johnathan White : You don't want to blow them out of the water, but I still find that we still need to present that because I don't want to. Only, you know, oh, well, all this other stuff, well, you know, the lack of maintenance and stuff. We'll just brush it off to the side. Well, when we present the big stuff, because there's the problem with that.   Johnathan White : You get into that pattern of, or you're only going to do the big things or what they need right now. It's not serving the client correctly. It's not it's not giving them the right information. And then you also have them come back a time and time again. Every time they come back, you have a new list. Yes. And then then it gets to the point where they feel like they're just being raked over the coals every time they come in.   Johnathan White : So I'd rather lose the sale and make sure I presented the information to where I feel like I presented all the options. Then. Then trying to sugarcoat it and, you know, to win the sale.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, I totally agree. You definitely don't want to sugarcoat anything and just think of it as your own health. When you walk out of a doctor's office, you want to know everything. You want to know all the good, the bad, the warts, the moles, the everything. And then you can make a decision on how you want to proceed with what you're doing.   Jimmy Lea : Do you want to take this medication or you want to change your lifestyle and eat better, or whatever the exercise more and be better conscious of your nutrition? And with a vehicle, with a car, you're right. If if every time I come to you it's like $3,000, $3,000, $3,000. Wait a second, man, I put more into this car than it's worth.   Jimmy Lea : Well, yeah, you have, but look at your car. It's really good. But as a consumer, I'm really feeling the weight of drive Swiss cheese here. This is such a bad vehicle. There's so many holes in it. At what point do I go, hey, John. John,   Jimmy Lea : Do I really keep this car anymore?   Johnathan White : Well, that's all government conversation that you really have to have. And I think that's one thing on the flip side that our industry as independents do really well compared to dealerships, because we're not we're here to serve the client and inform the client and present the the options to them versus, you know, bumping up car counts so high that we're just turning and burning rapidly.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah. We don't want to be a number. We don't want to be a statistic. We don't want to be a cog in that machine. And dealerships, if they took the same approach that we do in the automotive aftermarket. Oh my gosh, we would have a challenge.   Johnathan White : Right? But this.   Jimmy Lea : Well and to that point, John to John, man, I keep on and call you Jonathan. John. To that point, what's some of the things that's more complex, than outsiders realize? What's some of that things that, that customers don't see, that's the hardest things for you to manage as a shop owner?   Johnathan White : Well, as a business, you are there to generate profit, right? You don't come to work, to work, a job, come to you, generate a profit for the business and make it financially make sense to own a business. There's a lot of risks with having a business. So at the end of the day, it makes sense to have that business.   Johnathan White : So in order to run it profitably, you have to charge what you need to charge. And there are a lot of customers don't really understand, you know, new alignment machines, 30 grand, a new alignment racks, 30 grand, you know. Yeah. You can get some of the stuff cheaper and get what you pay for in an aspect.   Johnathan White : But scan tools again, you got $10,000 here, another $5,000 here or $5,000 here. Plus you have all the subscriptions every year. You're $1,500 here or $1,500 here. You got your point of sale system here. You got your credit card fees, which, you know, 2.3%, whatever it ends up being. You know, if you process, let's say, hypothetically, $1 million in a year on a credit cards.   Johnathan White : I mean, that adds up pretty quick. All that stuff adds up into, as a business, we have, on average, higher overheads than a lot of other businesses, which means that we have to run that overhead. And obviously we're limited by production. We only have so many hours in the day. So, there's a lot of those factors that especially on a like short month, like last month, that how running that overheads a lot more difficult than the longer month.   Johnathan White : So, it's just a balancing act between customer expectations and then what actual shop goals we need to be and where they need to be. So balancing act more or less is probably the hardest thing with a customer point of view.   Jimmy Lea : Oh yeah, it's so true. It's so true. And and you bring up a really, really good point. How do you go from a 22 day month. And we're talking business days that you're open and buy. How many days are you open.   Johnathan White : John I make it even more difficult because we're only open four days a week.   Jimmy Lea : Okay? Four days a week. So the normal business day would go from a 22 day week down to an 18 day week, and you're going to go from a 20 day down to 16. Are you done?   Johnathan White : It was 14 last month.   Jimmy Lea : Was 14 last month.   Johnathan White : Because we were closed also the Friday after Thanksgiving. So yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Oh man. Yeah that that's that that is pretty tight brother.   Johnathan White : That's we got it done.   Jimmy Lea : But yeah you do. Yeah you do. So, What? You're right. People just don't understand the all the intricacies that go into this industry. And and not only do we have labor, we have parts, and we have parts that we need to do markup. But why? Why markup my parts? Well, because I got a warranty. I got a guarantee it if you're going to come back and say it broke and it truly did, well, then I need to be able to afford to be able to replace it.   Jimmy Lea : Otherwise you won't be bringing it back to me because I won't be here right? And the public doesn't understand that always. What? What is some, training, coaching or industry communities that have helped you, grow in your ownership? Leadership position? Who or what made that biggest impact on you?   Johnathan White : So I've been part of elite. My dad was part of them is they got a lot of good information from them. A lot of it I ended up using. He just never made that change.   Jimmy Lea : It was hard for him to implement. It wasn't a muscle he had developed. Right?   Johnathan White : Correct. Yeah. He he expected different results with the same inputs. And yeah.   Jimmy Lea : We know that doesn't really.   Johnathan White : Work. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Is this back in the days when, Bob Cooper was there?   Johnathan White : Yeah, yeah, he was in actually, Bob Cooper's, the Tony groups, the.   Jimmy Lea : He he's a he's a star. I love Bob, and I could sit and listen to him for days.   Johnathan White : Right. He's a great public speaker. So phenomenal.   Jimmy Lea : Totally agree.   Johnathan White : Training with. You know, Lee, I had, I went to some training with Rick White. I did some training with you guys, and I also, did training for which outfits? So nice. They all have, good things, to, to say and and implement and things to listen to. Everybody has a different perspective. Truth.   Johnathan White : I think it's a good thing to sample and see what, what works out best for you. Because what works for one person may not be the style or approach that you need for the next person.   Jimmy Lea : They're it's true, it's true. Everybody needs a coach. And at some point you're going to outgrow the coach, right? And you're probably going to need to change. And that's one of the beautiful things I love about the Institute. I've got 16 different coaches right now. So if you if you outgrow one coach, I've got other coaches that really excel in areas of marketing or really excel in areas of getting your finances ready for, garage model or shop efficiencies, if that's what you're looking for.   Jimmy Lea : So it allows you to switch from coach to coach to coach to coach. Right. And at some point, you probably learn everything that we could possibly teach you from a one on one coaching point. And now it's time to get into a group. Have you ever been in a mastermind group environment?   Johnathan White : Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's good to give back in that regard. Where you're not necessarily the one getting on, but you're giving. Yes. I, I believe in that servitude that it's important to get back. So, I mean, that's what I'm currently doing. So I actually am an assistant coach right now. Congrats.   Johnathan White : So that's mine with shop picks. Yep. Congrats, bro. That's awesome. It's nice to be able to get a different perspective, different coaching style. You know, sometimes, I mean, even when I joined, I was resistant to some of the changes that I needed to do. And it took it just took this one extra class that I took that wasn't even the required class.   Johnathan White : It was just a mindset class. And that's really what flipped the needle for me. You never know when your breakthrough is going to happen, but the coaching group and a lot of it, you get out what you put into it. So if you're resisting change or you don't listen or that doesn't work here, that's not my market or whatever excuse you want to come up with.   Johnathan White : You're only going to you're only going to reach a certain level. And I've, you know, as a, as a assistant coach, a lot of the times it's, it's easier to train the people that are kind of at the, at their, their end of their rope. They, you know, they don't have anywhere else down to go. They can only go kind of up versus the people that come into the coaching that they're doing.   Johnathan White : All right. And it could be better. And that's where I was when I joined. And I didn't really want to listen for a while and oh my.   Jimmy Lea : Gosh, isn't that wild.   Johnathan White : And then I had that mindset class and something about that class flipped the switch. And then we we grew 700,001 year. Hallelujah. Something like that.   Jimmy Lea : So the mindset is is very strong. It's very strong. And once you're able to flip that switch, man, it does change everything. Congratulations. That's I'm that's that's beautiful brother. That yeah. There's there's so much beauty that comes from what you've just shared. And a lot of people don't get it. They don't understand it. And do you know Ron Hagan, Des Moines?   Jimmy Lea : He's from Des Moines, Iowa. He had West Side Auto pro, he sold his business, moved to Mexico.   Johnathan White : That sounds pretty, but I'm bad with names. I'm better.   Jimmy Lea : I'll bet. When? When we're done, you can look them up on Facebook. You'd be like, oh, yeah, I know, I know that guy. Ron Haugen was, I've been in very similar situation. He was at the end of his rope. He had two bays. He had a tech, and and he was he went to a training and it was back in the day Arlo with Blake.   Jimmy Lea : Bottom line impact group. And he signed up for the the he signed up for the program and it was a one year commitment. He's like hey look this is sink or swim. I am in the deep end. My nose is underwater. I'm going to drown. So this either has to work or I'm going to pack up my toolbox, head to the dealership because, I'm I'm I'm one more month away from total bankruptcy.   Jimmy Lea : And he got into that coaching and training group, and he says, I don't care what you tell me to do, I'm going to do it. Because what I have done so far has gotten me what I where I am today. So you tell me, I need to paint the front door pink. I'm going to paint it pink.   Johnathan White : Right?   Jimmy Lea : Whatever you tell me, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And it was for him an immediate turnaround. He grew and grew and grew and grew and grew a beautiful, successful business that he has since sold off to his, general manager. And now Ron lives in Mexico, and he travels back and forth and does things every once in a while.   Jimmy Lea : But man, I, I do this definitely enjoying retirement. So that mindset is that last bit of, oh my gosh, it's sink or swim.   Johnathan White : Great. And the other thing is like, you can people can listen from the outside in, you know, all the all they care about is, you know, as the owners grow on their business or, you know, being financially better, blah, blah, blah. But you know, the, the thing that comes with making the business better. Yes. A lot of times it brings up the employees too.   Johnathan White : Yes, the lives of the your employees as a direct result of the business improving. You're you're providing more function and you'll stay ability you're better able to offer better benefits. You're able to offer more room for them to grow potentially, you know, especially when you get into the people that had a single location and they weren't doing that well.   Johnathan White : And then that became really well. And then they opened, you know, two, three, four locations next. Now there's room for those people to grow, not just being technicians to the ability to to be, you know, the the general foreman for multiple stores where they drop into a store that loses a tech for a day. You know, there's there's more to it than just the business doing better and the, the owner making more money per se.   Jimmy Lea : You are correct. And in two things with the institute. One is our, our mission, our vision, our our statement, our mantra, our marching band. We are here to build a better business, provide a better life and a better industry. And so I say these three in that order, build a better business. It helps you as the shop owner, helps you build a better business because you can't feed people from empty shelves.   Jimmy Lea : You've got to have profit. You've got to have the funds to be able to give better business results in a better life. Yeah, it's a better life for you as a business owner. It's a better life for your service advisors and your technicians because you can provide better benefits, more benefits for one case health, vision, dental, time off, vacations.   Jimmy Lea : But not only is it a better life for you and your service advisors and your managers and your technicians, it's also a better life for your spouse and your children and your service advisors, spouses or children and their technicians, spouse and and children. It's a better life for everybody. The ripple effect of having a better business. How can you count it right?   Jimmy Lea : You how can you count that? And then that. As an institute, we're here to lock arms so that we as an industry, we elevate the entire industry.   Johnathan White : Right.   Jimmy Lea : Better industry.   Johnathan White : Yep, I agree, I love it.   Jimmy Lea : If you were to describe your shop today, your mission, your vision, your why, what does that look like to you? How do you describe that to somebody?   Johnathan White : Yep. So our mission statement is Building community trust one repair at a time. I love it. So, want to be known as the most transparent shop, the most reliable shop. And, that's basically our mission goal is to to do that. So and I think our, our, Google reviews reflect upon that. Now, are we perfect? No.   Johnathan White : Do we screw up, make mistakes? Yep, definitely. But it's how we handle those mistakes.   Jimmy Lea : Stand up. Own it. Eat that crow while it's warm. Because the longer you wait, the worse it gets.   Johnathan White : Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : So, you talk about transparency. What are some of the the means, the method, the methods, the mediums. What are you using or doing to provide that transparency with your clients? Your customers?   Johnathan White : Yep. So I'm a big believer in digital vehicle inspections.   Jimmy Lea : I love devices, love devices. What are you using? What do you do.   Johnathan White : So we actually use we use tech metrics, internal DVI tool. Nice. And so it works. Works fine. I think as far as, like a customer, it's perspective. Because I've been on a lot of different point of sale systems. I think software is probably one of the best as far as the vehicle experience inspection aspect.   Johnathan White : Is there's other issues I had with it. So that's kind of why we moved to tech. But I think as a whole, whatever point of sale you're using, you should have some sort of digital inspection. It just allows a lot more trust. It makes the sale easier. You can do video, pictures, PDFs. I mean, we upload all our scan results to it.   Johnathan White : It it also allows the, you know, to be able to dispel some of the ever since, you know.   Jimmy Lea : Ever since you touched my car, ever since you touched my truck.   Johnathan White : Yeah. And you know, the people, unfortunately, they get buyers almost more. So they spend a lot of money. There's they they start getting in their own head, and then they start thinking about everything. And. Well, I'm going to, you know, as the industry as a whole, we have a not so great reputation. So that's where a lot of the blame ends up falling on.   Johnathan White : So DVS help with that, because if you take a required under car picture, every car. And they said, well, you know, you did my front end repairs and now I have an oil leak. It's like, no, what the. We had that picture and we even wrote a note about it the last time you were in. But more so than that, it's it's being able to provide that trust with that customer.   Johnathan White : Like, here's, here's our testing results. This is exactly what we tested. We were testing for a, GM that's got a variable valve timing fault, and it's got a basically a bad intake, actuator solenoid and we found that the OAM rating for factory is 10 to 12 and it's at 16. Well there you go. There's proof that that part is what's bad.   Johnathan White : So rather than you know you pay me a diag there's just a diag line. And then there's a repair line. Why. As a yes as as a consumer. Why why did it why did I pay that. What did you find. Why are we doing this repair. The other thing that it helps with us is say we, you know, we fix something.   Johnathan White : Unfortunately, with modern vehicles, sometimes they can have a check engine light come on after repairs, after so many miles because it finally ram this other monitor. Well, we fixed a drivability fault, but then the check engine light came back on later, you know, 20, 30 miles later. And it's got to me. That felt good. Well was it never ran that.   Johnathan White : So it's not the same code so we can fall back on our data. That code wasn't there prior. Now it is, you know, hey we need to look into this different system. It just allows us also if we, if we fix something. And now the parts, it's failed again. Same fault. Did we miss anything on our Dag?   Johnathan White : Did we miss a step or do we have a defective part?   Jimmy Lea : Yeah.   Johnathan White : And this day. And age parts aren't what they used to be. And, it's not uncommon to to get a part, but failed. And you did everything right. But, having that data to fall back on is is extremely valuable. It's paramount. Yeah. Even for not just the customer perspective. Are you.   Jimmy Lea : Able to. And you bring up a really good point here. The parts aren't the same as what they used to be. Are you able to test any of these parts before you install to say, oh, you know what? This is good. I know it's going to be good or.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So, like, ratings and some of that stuff. But I mean, can you test the thermostat before you put it in. Yeah. Yes. Ish. But then I'm not really. How much time are you spending testing to verify that part's good before you put it in there then does that how can you justify that cost? So it's just like figuring out what, you know, parts do you like and what parts seem to work well for you.   Johnathan White : And we use more and more OEM parts than we historically used to. And there's certain things that I will only get OEM unless it's not an option. Electrical being the big one. Yeah. But it's you have to figure out for yourself what what quality of repairs you're comfortable with. And obviously, you know, parts play a big factor in that.   Johnathan White : So what's totally does what's really does.   Jimmy Lea : So for for my mother that's listening to this because she does and she doesn't understand OEM. What is the OEM.   Johnathan White : Original equipment manufacturer. Yes I know yes. Which is an original equipment source. So OEM would be like getting a Toyota water pump. Oh yes. Would be getting an ace and water pump because they are the supplier for that water pump too, just as I said, a Toyota on the box. So we use a lot of OS and OEM parts.   Jimmy Lea : You order enough that you can go direct to the manufacturer.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So like like they said is and water pumps we use all to. Yeah. So if I could get and there's certain manufacturers that if I could get more of them more reliable, I'd be a lot happier. But, there's a distributor that's unfortunately about an hour away from me that, sometimes turnaround requirements for customer means that I don't get to use those parts.   Jimmy Lea : Dang. Because they don't run a delivery vehicle out to you. But once a week type of deal.   Johnathan White : They run it? No, they run it twice a day. It's just, you know, a lot of customers. So slower only means of transportation, you know, getting that. Oh yeah. Even with Loaners, you know, we only have so many loaners. It's it's balancing again. What repair am I happy with versus what I want versus customer expectations and.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, it totally.   Johnathan White : It's all it's all the scale, slide scale and balancing act constantly for all that.   Jimmy Lea : It is, it is. And you're right. I mean for many people their vehicle is the most expensive item that they purchase. For those that own a home, I'm going to say the home is the most expensive thing that they'll ever purchase. But for many, it's a vehicle. It's their vehicle, it's the car. And they only have one, right?   Jimmy Lea : I only have one if I don't have my car. I'm, using Uber or Lyft or I'm relying on, my wife to give me around or, the kid's got a teenage car, so sometimes I have to borrow that if if my car's in the shop. But, yeah, it is the single vehicle of the family.   Johnathan White : Right. And and most people only have one. I mean, it's rare. Yeah. Or they have, you know, to or, you know, an extra if the wife and husband have a, you know, their own vehicles because they go to each go to different jobs, then yeah, they have an extra. That's pretty rare anymore. That it is. Even with a kid having the extra, it's they still need to get places.   Johnathan White : They got to get to school. The parents can't take them because their job starts at eight, you know? Yep. It's again why we have to constantly balance of where we would like the repair to be versus what's possible by time frame. Yeah. So the more the more you specialize, the more you can dictate. I feel that the repairs this, and that's the only option.   Johnathan White : But there's a point where you're just saying no to the group and, customers, you know, are. Am I much different than my competitors? I'd like to say yes. But at the same time, if I tell them I'm a week out, can they go elsewhere and probably get a decent repair? Yeah. Yeah. So saying no constantly and telling them, you know, they're not my customer.   Johnathan White : They're not this. Yeah. There's a point where they aren't your customer and and that. But you're losing a lot of opportunity. And that's what this industry is built on is opportunity cost. So you have to find your line of where you're saying yes to the right, right mindset and my yeah people. And then where you do draw your line and everybody's going to be a little different on that.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, so true, so true. Every shop is different. Every footprint is different. Every operation is different. And I've had the distinct pleasure of traveling all over North America, visiting shops. And I love it. What does your shop shop look like today, John? What? How many bays? Live service advisors, technicians.   Johnathan White : So we have a lot of room for growth ability. Our biggest limitation will be parking. But I have 11 days and six techs.   Jimmy Lea : Phenomenal. That's great. What's the property? How much?   Johnathan White : Properties like, it's a quarter of an acre, and the building is going to say 12,000ft². Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : So it's not it's not a huge it's not a big, humongous piece of land that you can park cars for a week, a month.   Johnathan White : No. Now we only have parking for 25 cars and we do have maybe 30. Yeah, about 30. We do about 25 cars a day. So we don't have a lot of wiggle room with parking. When we're, you know, waiting on parts and stuff like that. So that's a big reason that we have to get cars done efficiently and timely, because we just don't have the the space for it.   Johnathan White : And then you get in the snow season and then the snow pile takes up one parking spot and then you get enough snow. You have two spots that are down and oh yeah. So actually and we have our loaners. So right. Loaners being out because then it means I have a parking spot for their car. So I encourage the young loners to get used.   Jimmy Lea : Nice. That's good. So have you ever thought of a blowtorch for those piles of snow?   Johnathan White : Right. I just thought.   Jimmy Lea : Luckily, we are facing.   Johnathan White : The right direction. If you live in a place that gets snow, you know that if your driveway faces north, you're doomed for months on end. Right.   Jimmy Lea : That's a lot of salt you're throwing down. Yeah.   Johnathan White : Luckily, our building and main parking lot does face, south and the other side is a little on the west side. So we are lucky that we get a lot of sun exposure, so it does melt the snow pretty quickly. Being in a sunny state can be zero degrees, but sunny and still melting the snow, so that is beneficial.   Johnathan White : But still. Yeah, sometimes the biggest issue here is, is parking 100%.   Jimmy Lea : Oh yeah. You know. Yeah. Absolutely. Parking because, I'm thinking with the 11 bays, even if you were to double stack, which is difficult, there's a lot of pushing cars around. If you're double stacking every day, you just got to turn, turn, turn, turn, turn. You got to be quick and efficient on getting a minute out.   Johnathan White : Yep.   Jimmy Lea : That's awesome. So, I noticed that Phil's Pro Auto Service has been the recipient of a very distinguished. Very distinguished, accolade in being voted the best auto repair in Greeley for eight years in a row. This. What do you think that has gone into that that earned you that reputation?   Johnathan White : Yeah. So like I said, my dad wasn't great at running a business, but he did do one thing, right. He made sure the car was fixed. Right. The first time. It was a big mama, you know, thing that he pushed and, you know, taking care of the customer, having that communication. They're not just a number. We're taking care of the client or explaining to the client the repairs if they have questions were there.   Johnathan White : So if, you know, talking to a client, if realistically it takes 30 minutes to get them to understand the repair and what we need to do and why we need to do it, and that's what we do. So he really instilled that, and I've been able to fix the numbers side of the business, you know, as far as profitability, but still continue on doing fixing the repair.   Johnathan White : Right. Taking care of the client. So, again, very perfect. No, but we, we, you know, trying to be at that 99%.   Jimmy Lea : Point. It sounds like pops had the same mentality that my father had in teaching me, if you don't have time to get it done right the first time, you won't have time to get it right the second time. Correct? So dad gets it done right the first time or as close as possible. So congratulations to you and to your pops.   Jimmy Lea : Because he set the foundation, you were able to come in and refine the process, the procedure, get the profit where it needed to be, the KPIs in place at the point of sale system in place. That's phenomenal, I love that. Congratulations, John. That is so cool. So at what point is it that you took over operations?   Johnathan White : So I've been a I was the general manager slash lead advisor for 20 since 2015. And I really started to push changes 2017 to 19. And then I became the full owner actually beginning of 2024. Last year.   Jimmy Lea : I was congratulations.   Johnathan White : John. Son of the business. So.   Jimmy Lea : So is dad out or is he still coming in?   Johnathan White : He's officially retired as of his requirement was we need to keep him on at all. This year until.   Jimmy Lea : Till Jan one?   Johnathan White : No, until, actually, our 40th anniversary. So 40th anniversary was August 1st. And that's was his retirement. Hey, hey.   Jimmy Lea : Congratulations, pops. Way to go. And good for you, John. That's that's awesome, bro. That's so cool.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So. And my big thing was getting, manager to basically allow me to not be in day to day operations. For before he was 100% retired because he handled, like, payroll and some of the bookkeeping aspects, so. Right. That was, a struggle on itself. I think finding finding a manager is probably one of the more difficult things I've had to do.   Johnathan White : It's it's hard to hand it off and it's hard to, you know, you do things a certain way and understanding that they may do things a little bit differently. And so having that, you know, these are your goals and this is what I want to see. And how you get there necessarily doesn't matter as long as the end result is what I need it to be.   Jimmy Lea : And it's interesting. It is a difficult conversation to have because, you, you hold it so close. We as a as a leadership at in the business, we hold it so close. We want it done a certain way. And now we understand why it is that pop said no, no, no, because I said so.   Johnathan White : Right.   Jimmy Lea : And you're like, well, now I got to be able to explain it to somebody else. So we got to figure this one out.   Johnathan White : Yeah, yeah. That's probably was one of the more difficult things I've had to do in my years.   Jimmy Lea : So yeah, yeah for sure. So congrats on on buying the business from pops. That is super cool. 40th anniversary. Are we going to keep it as Phil's pro Phil states.   Johnathan White : As Phil's product. But I was.   Jimmy Lea : Going to ask, when are we going to change it to John's Pro out of service.   Johnathan White : Now? I mean, to him it's,   Jimmy Lea : Don't need to.   Johnathan White : Don't need to. And changing your business name and dealing with Google and all the online sources and.   Jimmy Lea : Rebranding back up.   Johnathan White : Or rebranding. No. Thank you.   Jimmy Lea : That's so tough.   Johnathan White : If you need to. And the the images back then that would make sense. But, great scenario. That is not the case. Agreed.   Jimmy Lea : So let's fast forward 3 to 5 years. What does winning look like for Phil's pro out of service. We looking at one elite location or you looking at multiple shop operations?   Johnathan White : Yep. So I'd like to get this location coming along between 4 and 5 million year. We're currently do 3.3 this year. That's. And then I'd like to have a second location on the west side of town. So we're currently on the east side, so we're basically Eighth Avenue. And I'd like to do one probably out at like 71st Avenue ish.   Johnathan White : And really just the west side of town, which is growing rapidly. If you've been to Northern Colorado, it's all kind of the cities are all kind of merging at this point in time. They really.   Jimmy Lea : Are. You're looking so much more like Los Angeles. Every day is just a high, high altitude Los Angeles.   Johnathan White : So that's that's ideally where I'd like to be in the next like 3 to 5. It's kind of been my goal. So that's what we're working towards.   Jimmy Lea : Beautiful. Congratulations. So when you get this current shop up into the 4 or 5 6 million, where does that put your efficiencies at.   Johnathan White : So we currently run my technicians average between the whole shop versus ours. They're here and hours worked where right now at 105%.   Jimmy Lea : Congrats that's all.   Johnathan White : We are very efficient in that regard. I the biggest, hurdle I have is just the way the building's designed to put another tech in. I like to, to have techs where they have the ability to have a second bay, because we all know that a parts issue happens or something comes up and you really need that extra, availability versus one tech in every bay is the most efficient model as far as as throughput, potential store capacity.   Johnathan White : But I do like having, where they have that ability to have another bay. So I really need to blow out a wall and add another tech or add another bay.   Jimmy Lea : A single bay, or would you add more than a single? Oh, you're on a quarter acre. How are you going to do that?   Johnathan White : So I have the ability inside the building to basically basically make a double stack. And well, my other tech already has a double stack, so if I can do that, then I get I have the ability to add another tech without much of an issue.   Jimmy Lea : And when you talk a double stack, I'm going to say double dip. Yeah w w okay okay. Tandem. You have two lifts in a row. Not side by side but front to back. Okay.   Johnathan White : Yep.   Jimmy Lea : So if I understood you right, you just said that you could expand by one bay, but also, is it in effect adding three bays?   Johnathan White : No. Just one minute. Yep. Now just one. Just one to, or one lift. So we would just blow out that wall and then move the equipment and add a bay there. It's there's a mezzanine there, but it wasn't ever it wasn't a part of the structural part of the building. So that can be torn down really easily.   Johnathan White : So that's, probably my next, next thing as far as adding another tech and, and boosting throughput through the shop, because right now we're, you know, we are running pretty efficient. Yeah. We're starting to get to the point where we're saying no. And it's one thing I don't like to say. So, I probably would have done it earlier, but this market this year has been a little topsy turvy.   Johnathan White : So I've been monitoring the market and waiting to do that, expansion when the timing seemed correct.   Jimmy Lea : So totally agree. The timing does, count for quite a bit. Quite a bit for sure. So for those shops that are listening in, they're saying, oh my gosh, she's at 105%.   Johnathan White :   Jimmy Lea : Is that the max that you can do or can you do more?   Johnathan White : We can do more. I mean, I have a tech that runs 150% efficient. So I mean, it comes down to to skill set and workflow and, you know, front counter, you know, really lining things up, right, and dispatching correctly. And a lot of things have to go right. So, is there room for improvement? Always. Can we get there?   Johnathan White : That's to be determined.   Jimmy Lea : Yep, yep. And 150 for a single technician. That's phenomenal. The most I've heard, I think, was 116% that I, that I've heard of personally, a shop running at 116% shop efficiencies, which is very, very cool to be able to hear something like that happening.   Johnathan White : Yeah, we, we definitely focus on that as being insufficient as we possibly can, you know, making sure we're doing things correctly or charging for things correctly. You know, if we are. That's why I don't like doing some quotes, you know, giving prices over the phone. You know, and there were no I got a can't do it. I got a check engine light on.   Johnathan White : Okay. Great. Is it one coders at six that that makes the diag process way different. Yeah. That's you know, that's one thing with, the suffix model of, you know, the 15 minute, no wrench is a great way to get people in the door. No phone calls whatsoever except for menu items. And then it allows you to get that initial, like quick triage where.   Johnathan White : Yeah, they, check engine lights on and have a drive. But there's one code. Great. It's this price that I get or it's, you know, you got a comment like, well, I can see the radiators. I can, we can start there, or we can pressure test it and try and confirm, you know.   Jimmy Lea : Where else is it leaking?   Johnathan White : You know, but. Oh, I got to check engine light. Oh, there's six codes in here. Three of them are misfires. You got a VAT code and you got a evap Falcon. All the there and the misfire may overlap. May not. But the key. That fault code. That's 100%. A separate system that's separate test. You know, now realistically to diagnose this right.   Johnathan White : We two two hours worth of evaluation time. If I'd given a phone call, we would have to decide at that point in time, are we going to tell the customer like, hey, we diagnose it and is this to repair this? But we also need more time for this. You know, that feels a little bait and switch. So, you know, again, managing customer expectations, informing customers and, and really making them understand why we're doing what we're doing is, is paramount.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, so true to so true. Thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for what you've done here in this industry. It's phenomenal. I love the industry. I love where we are and what we're doing. I love the coaching and training companies that that are helping to elevate this entire industry. It's it's can't be done by one.   Jimmy Lea : It has to be done by all. And where we stand, we lift.   Johnathan White : Great.   Jimmy Lea : I agree you have a unique background and I say unique because it's unique to you. But there are others out in the industry that are the son of the father who started the shop, and they're in your same boots.   Johnathan White : So if you were.   Jimmy Lea : To give yourself.   Johnathan White : Advice.   Jimmy Lea : And this is advice that you're now giving to other people in your same position, were you to start this journey today or tomorrow, knowing what you know that you've learned over the last 20 plus plus years? What advice would you give yourself in starting out as a son of an owner, positioning yourself to one day take over as the owner?   Johnathan White : Well, as humans, we hate competition. We hate having those hard conversations. And I would say that was the number one thing that I did not do. Soon enough, I did not have that hard conversation with my dad about, hey, when, you know, it was always, oh, well, you're going to take it over, you're going to take it over it.   Johnathan White : So, you know, at the point where I kept getting pushed back on changes I wanted to make, it's not the right direction. You know, whatever reasoning there was, having that heart conversation to the point of, hey, I need a deadline of when this is happening. Now, and we need to come to a conclusion of what that's going to be and what it's going to entail and look like for or at that point in time, it's because we can't come to a conclusion that I need to start positioning myself for somewhere else, or go some go a different direction, but we need to have those hard conversations with our employees to hold them accountable.   Johnathan White : We need to have that hard conversation with ourselves, to hold ourselves accountable. And as an industry as a whole, as humans, we suck at that. And it's only gotten worse with technology.   Jimmy Lea : That truth true, 100% certain percent.   Johnathan White : If I was to go back, that's that's what I would do, is have that hard conversation earlier. And realistically, if I did that, I probably would have owned the business before Covid. And, I may probably have already had a second location.   Jimmy Lea : Probably that would be giving you a lot more runway. So for those who are listening in and what you're saying is to have those crucial conversations, those critical conversations, those confrontations, and not be afraid to do it, you need to feel empowered to do it. And you would do it sooner. Any books or, advice that you can give to people to where to look for guidance on having these conversations?   Johnathan White : I mean, I think Josh, with limited leadership. Josh Parnell yeah, he's a great person to talk to about expanding your leadership. And and that obviously with leadership goes along with that. I think that's a great, great place to start. You know, mindsets part of it. So if you're struggling and you don't think you're, you're, if you can get to the point of being profitable or you're not worth getting profitable, you know, rich dad, poor dad, there's like, Simon Sinek makes a lot has a lot of great books.   Johnathan White : You know, you you.   Jimmy Lea : Only golden circle find out to your why.   Johnathan White : Yeah, there's only you. You only know what you know. And that's part of having a training group. And you, you only know what you know. And if there's no where the you're getting somewhere that's going to push you, then you're only going to get to a certain level.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah, yeah. Get into a group that's going to push you get into a group that's going to that. They want you to be better than you are today.   Johnathan White : Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : A couple of books that I'm thinking of. Two, one is, Crucial Conversations. Phenomenal book that helps to guide those conversations so you can have that critical confrontation and not lose your stuff. Yeah. The second book, and I think you probably have read the second book. Chris boss.   Johnathan White : Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Never settle. Never settle the difference. Never negotiate. Never.   Johnathan White : Yes, something like that. I know what you're talking about.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah. Yellow cover. Phenomenal. I need to read, Chris Voss again. That. What a phenomenal book.   Jimmy Lea : All right, lightning round for you, John. One word answer or one sentence answer. And by the way, thank you so much for what you're doing in this industry. Thank you for all the shops that you're coaching and training, the help that you're giving them to assist and elevate and create such a better and brighter future for them.   Jimmy Lea : Thank you for what you're doing, John. I really appreciate it, brother.   Johnathan White : Thanks for having you.   Jimmy Lea : All right, lightning round one tool or system. You'll never give up again.   Jimmy Lea : Devis most common myth customers believe about auto repair.   Johnathan White : That we just plug it in gives us the answer that it's easy. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Best hire you've ever made. And why?   Johnathan White : Best hire. Yeah. It'll be will be one of my master techs. And why he wasn't really sold. I had to really sell them on the business. And, what what I was doing and everything. He came in with the goal of being. And we can only 100, grand a year, and he will be well north of.   Johnathan White : Well, north of that. And congratulations, office. How so? And, I think I'm gonna lose them sooner than I want to, because he's going to pay that off a lot faster. So. But, yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Keep him as long as you can. Right? Even as long as you can. And the more you can have him training, your people are that phenomenal. Okay. We digress. Hardest role to hire for right now service manager.   Johnathan White : So I'm going to run your shop for you can be the the leadership behind it. Yeah. Takes a varies. You have to align with them. You have to communicate with them as the owner. It took me three people.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, I'm glad you found the one one boundary. You you set that improved profit and culture.   Johnathan White :   Johnathan White : That we sell, we don't sell ourselves short. And we sell for what we're worth 100%.   Jimmy Lea : Your favorite metric that predicts a good month.   Johnathan White : Gross profit per hour. And hours per hour.   Jimmy Lea : Love it, love it. That. What's the perfect day? Car count for your shop?   Johnathan White : Right about 20 to 25.   Jimmy Lea : One book or podcast or coach that changed your thinking?   Johnathan White : Oh, Jackets with, gets automotive, which is shop fixed. Coach currently still my coach.   Jimmy Lea : Shout out to Jack.   Johnathan White : The he drilled into me and and, it's been a very productive relationship.   Jimmy Lea : Beautiful. What are you irrationally picky about in the shop?   Johnathan White : The way arrows are written. I don't like one liners, like, diagnose coolant, like radiator leaking, but just it doesn't add value to me. So I like more, slot stories, you can call them, but even if it's simple, it just needs to have more. More than two words.   Jimmy Lea : Yes. Tell the story. Please tell the.   Johnathan White : Story. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, I love it. John, you are awesome. Thank you to all you're doing. Thank you to Phil's Pro Auto service. Thank you to pops. Congrats on your retirement. Thank you. And John congrats on what you're doing in the industry bro. Keep it up. Keep it up.   Johnathan White : And I do have to do one little small shout out in January. 31st is Colorado Asa's training Summit. So if you are in the area it's a great way to get training for a technician, an advisor, a manager and an owner.   Jimmy Lea : Yes, yes, everybody in the reach. And if you're in driving distance of, say, Denver, Colorado, you should definitely be there because the training is it's it's the best it's the best that you can get. It is that face to face hands on learning experience that you're looking for as a technician, as a service advisor, a manager or an owner.   Jimmy Lea : Go to these classes, take them. And if you're an owner, take the owner classes, the ownership, the marketing, the leadership. Yeah, I know it's cool to jump in and find out all about that. Fuel injection. The newest, latest, greatest turbos. But come on, man, you're a business owner. Let's let's work on that skill set. Be the business owner.   Jimmy Lea : So, yes, John, thank you for that. Shout out to NASA. Denver, Colorado. Everybody needs to be there is a summit.   Johnathan White : Yes. Say summit January 31st.   Jimmy Lea : Awesome. Thank you so much for doing that, John. Thank you for all you do, brother. Appreciate it.   Johnathan White : All right. Thank you.