The Institute’s Leading Edge Podcast

204 - Part 1: Using AI in Your Shop to Increase Performance May 6th, 2026 - 00:59:50 Show Summary: Artificial intelligence is reshaping how auto repair shops operate in practical ways. Jonathan Seitzer shares how AI can improve communication analyze data and save time on daily tasks. He explains a simple framework of rent it feed it and put it to work to help shop owners get started. AI is positioned as a tool that multiplies performance not replaces people. Real demos show how shops can create better customer messaging and gain insights from their data in minutes. The conversation also highlights the need to review AI outputs and use it responsibly. It closes with a look ahead at AI agents and how owners can begin experimenting today.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Jonathan Seitzer, Owner, Dempsey’s Service Center   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Introduction to AI use in daily auto shop operations. [00:02:35] – Background in finance and technology applied to auto repair business. [00:06:20] – Three ways to use AI rent it feed it put to work. [00:08:17] – AI acts as multiplier not replacement for shop owners. [00:10:21] – Simple AI tools improve customer communication and service descriptions. [00:15:02] – Always check AI outputs since mistakes and errors can happen. [00:19:00] – AI helps create clear customer talk tracks from technician notes. [00:30:16] – AI quickly analyzes parts data saving hours of manual work. [00:37:31] – AI summarizes content into audio saving time each day. [00:45:21] – Use AI internally while maintaining trust with customers.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8_dcnz_4csE   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hey, good afternoon, friends. Depending on where, when you are joining us, it could be morning, afternoon, or evening. Good to see you, my friend. I'm glad you're here. Glad we are gonna have this conversation today as we talk about the future of our industry, and how does artificial intelligence really fit into our day-to-day operations? What does that look like? This is gonna be an interactive conversation. What do I mean by that? No, you're not gonna come on camera. No, we're not gonna unmute your microphone. Go to the comments section. We're live streaming on Facebook and YouTube and StreamYard. Go to that comments section and type in there your questions, comments, or concerns. In fact, go into that comments section and type in where you're joining us from, the name of your shop. Love to give you a shout-out as we talk about this industry that we love that's doing so well for us. And yeah, drop in your name and where you're joining us from because it's super exciting to be here with you, friends. It's super exciting. First and foremost is the current coach for our guest, Mr. Wayne Marshall, CEO of GEAR Group Holding, and he is joining us from Iowa. Good to have you with us, Wayne. Thank you for being here, brother. Also Steve from B&C Auto Center in San Jose, California. We've got Peggy from High Street Auto Repair, Jefferson City, Missouri. Jeff from Miller's Automotive, Orange Park, Florida. Jeff Byrne from German Tech Motorworks, Louisville, Kentucky. And let's see, Fernando, Rohrehard Park Transmission, Northern California. Evans from Evans & Lukes in Columbus, Ohio. Evan, good to see you again, brother. How you doing? Oh, that's awesome. And Justin Pepper, Quality Auto Repair here in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Nice. Glad you guys are here. Thank you for those who are vocal and know where that comments button is. This is gonna be so much fun. We're gonna have such a great conversation here. Joining me today is John from... Oh, one more shout-out. Todd from Atlanta Speedworks in Gainesville, Georgia. John joins us today from, where are you joining us from? Jonathan Seitzer: Newark, Delaware, Dempsey Service Center. Jimmy Lea: Dempsey Service Center. And John is a very recent purchaser, a recent joining the ranks of ownership, of shop ownership, and he joins us from computer industry, the computer world. What's your background, John? What qualifies you as a computer surgeon? Jonathan Seitzer: Prior to my move to the automotive industry, I was the head of product at Moody's Analytics for some of their suite of compliance products for, for their banking and government services. Prior to that I was at JPMorgan Chase for 10 years in various technology roles. I am not a developer. I live in the product and business analysis world. So for those of you shop owners out there, you should think of me a little bit like a service advisor in my last life. My job was to stand between my customers and my my software developers, help understand what the customer needed it, translated it into something the software developers could build, and then get that information back to the customer when we had a solution for 'em. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it, Jon. This is awesome. Love that you come from the world of computers, and I guess technically we could call you a financial whiz. Jonathan Seitzer: You c- you can call me all sorts of things. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I heard JP Morgan Chase and a lot of financial institutions you were talking about. Congrats on that, that career, that lifespan that you had there in, in that industry. And oh, my gosh, look, we've got a few more shout-outs. Brandon from Pete's in Topeka, Kansas. Todd Compton's Automotive in Charlotte, North Carolina, and Lance Lupe joining us from... Lance, I, I can never remember where you're at. I think he's in New York. It might be New Jersey. I think it's New Jersey. Anyways, Lance is here with us as well. Jon so excited with your background. We had a great conversation at MARS in last October. Looking forward to another MARS conference, Marketing for Automotive Repair Shops, coming this October. Our conversation last October, we talked about, you talked about, hey, you know what? I do a lot with AI. I do a lot with the large language learning, and I really would love to share this with others in our industry and h- how they can use it, and what would make a difference for them. So let's help everybody else catch up to the conversation you and I had, Jonathan. How is it that you're using AI in your day-to-day? What are you doing? Jonathan Seitzer: So there's all sorts of different things. I'll actually, I have some demos we'll be showing in just a minute, but how about we head into the the presentation, and I'll walk you through the whole thing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The floor is yours, brother. Hey, so everybody, as you're listening to Jon, you've got questions, go ahead and type them into the box because as Jon is doing this demo on the different AI systems, it takes a minute to process, so that's a good opportunity for us to ask questions. So keep those questions coming in that comments box All right. Jonathan Seitzer: Awesome. Thank you, Jimmy. So hello everybody. Welcome. As said, my name is John Seitzler. I am the owner of Dempsey Service Center. We have been in business for 40 years here in Newark, Delaware. But as I said earlier prior to that I was... I've spent the last 15 years on Wall Street in various product and technology roles. And what qualifies me to talk to you all a little bit about AI is actually during my last stop, I was lucky enough in to release two different AI products to the market. One back in 2019 when we weren't really talking about AI all that much, and then again right before I left in 2025 we released our first agentic AI product into the market. I've got a fair bit of experience with AI knowing what it does, more importantly, what it doesn't do. And I just wanna get that information to you guys here. The fun part about this for me is I'm not here to sell you guys anything. I'm just here to help, and at the end of the thing I'll get you all my email. So in the event that you have questions, if you need help, if you're thinking about it, you want somebody to bounce an idea off, reach out. I am I am available. I look at AI in three different ways. There are three things you can do with AI as a shop owner. That's you can rent it, you can feed it, and you can put it to work. Now, in this demo, what we're going to do is I'm gonna... We're gonna talk about the first two. Put it to work is a big conversation. There's a lot of different things you can do, and there's a lot of different hurdles and jumps that you have to make to do it in a way where you can trust it. So we're gonna split that one out into another webinar in a couple weeks, so I hope to see a lot of you guys back there as we're doing that. But I think this diagram right here kinda, kinda illustrates, the amount of effort that goes into each one of this. Rent it, small and easy. Feed it, not as big as put it to work, but bigger than rent it. You're still gonna have to do some work. You're going to have to do some learning. And then when it's time to put it to work you have to decide really is the time commitment I'm going to spend making this happen worth what I'm going to get out of it? And some of you are going to say no, and I want you guys to know that's okay. I know everybody hears everything about AI. It's all over the news. It's everywhere. That do- and there's a fear of we might get left behind. AI is helpful AI is incredibly helpful. It can make you much more efficient. It can help you unearth things. But I think the big thing I want to get out of this to you is to help understand what the role of the AI in your shop actually could be. AI is not going to replace I don't think very many people here in the automotive industry. The, all of the whys for that is a larger conversation than I've got here. But w- how you guys should think of AI is not as, "Oh, this is, maybe I can replace one of my vendors at some point. Maybe I can replace, w- my service advisor," something like that. No. AI, or at least the way I use AI, is as a multiplier. AID, AI is PEDs for the shop owner that understands their operations and their data. It will make you... It will take a good shop owner and make them great. Y- you cannot at any point go I'm not doing, I'm not doing well. Let's chuck some AI at it, and everything's going to be fixed." It just doesn't work that way. So all that said, let's talk about the easiest thing you can do today with AI, and that's rent it. Now, what do I mean by rent it? Rent it is you all as shop owners pay for a number of services. And right now, because AI is a fantabulous buzzword, and every one of these services that you pay for, especially if they are a publicly traded company, is they're going in front of their investors, and their investors are saying, "What are you doing with AI?" And all of these companies are trying to figure out where AI fits within the products and services that they sell. So if you use QuickBooks, there's an AI assistant. If you used any of the Google Workspace or Microsoft Office products, there is an AI in there. Your shop management system, more than likely at this point, has an AI in there in some ways, and some of the uses are big, right? AI and Microsoft Excel as somebody who literally made his career at the start in Microsoft Excel coding stuff because, my old bosses who were around before Excel didn't wanna learn it AI can make, AI can do wild things in Microsoft Excel. Do I use a lot of them? No, 'cause I don't really need them. You know what I use when I rent AI the most? It's this that you see on my screen. So my shop management system has a a little improve button that I can use when my techs send me- what on the right, which is a very sparsely worded, all caps missing some verbs sometimes write-up about whatever it is that they're working on. Now, in the past, what we might have done was just copied and pasted that, and that's what the customer got to see, right? J- on their invoice. Now, what we can do is I can hit an Improve button, and it's going to run through that. It's going to try to determine the context, it's going to spit out just a nice paragraph. Is that the world's biggest time saver? No. Does it lead to a better experience for my customers? Yes. So I wind up using I wind up using that in the rented category, honest to God, more than anything else we're going to talk about today because I have, a fair number of techs, and none of my technicians like using anything other than short paragraphs in all caps locks. That's rented. Why is rented important? So when we talk about what my past life, right? My past life was f- my whole job was figuring out, "How do I put this into my tools?" So when you're renting your AI, one, you're not, it's not costing you really anything else because you're already, you're getting it as part of the service. Two, the AI that you are using has been thoroughly vetted, in many cases, by a team of people who are just like I used to be, whose whole job is to figure this stuff out and test it in every way. So the risk of you using it is much, much lower. That's an important thing to understand about AI is AI is not deterministic. It's probabilistic. And what I mean by deterministic versus probabilistic is AI uses probability to deter- to figure out what the next word it's going to say as it's writing a sentence to you. This, it's all math. Deterministic is literally, I flip a switch and the light goes off. I flip the switch, light goes on. It's determined. It will never be, it will always be one of those two things. The light goes off or the light goes on, and if it doesn't do one of those things, that means your light bulb's broken. So that's rented. Simplest thing you can do. The return on it isn't as big, but it can make your life easier if you're using things like the QuickBooks Assistant, or it do- it might do something as simple as make the invoices that your customers see a little bit better. Things you need to do when you're when you're renting it is, first off- Look through your tools. Who's offering this to you and where are they offering it? Determine the features they're offering, right? A feature in my shop management thing that cleans up things, that's super useful. Maybe they add AI somewhere else and I have to think do I really want AI there? Do I want something that could make mistakes that I'm not supervising in use? So explore your tools, identify your features, and then start playing with it. Again, these are part of the tools that you are already paying for. You can afford to experiment. You're not-- you don't have to go out and buy a subscription or learn how to use a Claude code or a OpenAI codex or a Google Antigravity. You have them here and ready for you. They're in the tools as you understand them. It just changes a little bit your process, and you can decide, is this worth changing up my process for? Things to watch out. The quality of the AI varies by the vendor. Not all AI is created equal. The more powerful the model, typically the more expensive it is to serve. A lot of times what your your vendor that's offering you an AI product isn't using the most powerful model out there. They might be using something open source. So all things AI, and if you get nothing else from this, get this audit it. Check it for mistakes, especially when you're starting out. I was even prepping for this. I was running a couple demos on my side and it made, a couple of boneheaded decisions and spit out some information that wasn't right. So you've always got to check it. Then additionally, as you start to implement it, you should have experienced people working at your shop wherever you're using this stuff, looking at it before it goes out. If AI is cleaning up your emails or your or, service descriptions on your invoices, that doesn't absolve your service advisor of looking at the invoice before they fire it off to the customer. And then also you have to assume anybody who's used ChatGPT I like to say AI has an accent. ChatGPT especially has an accent. If you have somebody that's used AI a lot, you can tell when AI writes something and the way to get around that is to teach AI how to write like you want it to write. If you just let it go, people are going to be able to tell. I can tell definitely. All right. Here's where we're gonna have some fun. I have a few different demos we're gonna get to run through for here. And let's first talk about feed it, right? Feed it is what we think about AI how we've been using it a lot these last few years, right? You would log into a browser, there would be your AI chatbot, you could type your question, your comment, your whatever, and it would output some type of result. As they got more advanced, you started to be able to attach things to it to offer it additional context. And so it went from, "Tell me about the history of the moon landing," to, "I have a spreadsheet, I'm gonna attach the spreadsheet. Tell me about my spreadsheet." So this is the second piece where you can start to get real value out of AI, is you have systems that generate data. Why not use your-- these chatbots, these AIs, to help you understand your data? There's, me as a person who came from a technology background and moved into automotive with no real experience in automotive at all, outside of being a, an enthusiast my shop management system produces so much more data than, even I could process. Without this stuff, I'd be hours a week crafting pivot tables and running analysis just to try and understand where we are, where things I can literally do in minutes, if not seconds. And I'll show that to you as we move forward, right? So you can use things like your customer feedback, your service histories, your repair orders, your parts inventories to get real good analysis out of these tools. So let's go on a ride, folks. I have no, no idea what's about to happen. This should work. So let's start with our first demo, and I think this is the most fun. Like I said, I was prior to this, I worked in technology. I do not have a background in automotives. I am a shop owner that does not know anything about how to fix cars, and I had never written service before I took over this shop just a few months ago, right? So a couple of weeks ago, when my service advisor wanted to go on vacation with his family for a week and I only have one service advisor guess what? Time to learn how to write some service. And as somebody who doesn't, who, One of my technicians will come to me and say, "This is what I need and this is what's wrong." I understand it in theory, but less in concept. So I developed a script that I used to help take what the technicians were recommending to me and give me a talk track that I could use to customers. So when I was talking to my customers, they didn't necessarily know how way in over my head I was. So this i- these are my service writer instructions, not for my actual service writer, but for my AI service writer. This is when you're feeding it or yeah, when you're feeding it, sometimes the thing you want to do is just ask your questions, but sometimes what you want to do is you want to give your AI a role and give it some guardrails to lower your risk that the AI is going to go farther than you want, or worst case, make up something that isn't actually true. Thing to understand about these things is they want... Want is a bad word. I don't like anthropomor- morphizing machines, but the AI is designed to try and be helpful. It wants to get you an answer to your question, and sometimes when it can't find one, it just makes one up. Or if it can't find a piece of data, it makes one up. I told you earlier it did something boneheaded. When I was testing this it, I gave it a vehicle, and it decided that the odometer reading on the vehicle was 253,000 miles for a Ford Mustang GT, which would make it the greatest Mustang GT in the world. So in this case, I am giving my AI a set of instructions that it's going to use to help me come up with a talk track for my thing, but here are the rules, right? So I give it the set of instructions. I give it what's going to happen, "Hey, these are the steps you have to follow." I tell it what a service writer does. I tell it what to consider here for their talk track. And then this is important. When I told you AI has a accent, this is how I scrub the accent and I tell AI to talk like I want it to. So I've come up with a brand voice and rules for my brand here in, at Dempsey's, and I give that to the AI and I tell it, "You gotta... Here's what your tone is supposed to be. You are not allowed to do this. You are not allowed to use jargon. You are going to present the findings honestly. You're going to avoid certain words. You're going to recommend certain things if they need to." We do have financing, right? "You're going to tell them about our warranty." Then I tell it how I want it to structure the response, and then here's the u- last thing, I tell it what it is absolutely not allowed to do, what not to do. You can't include pricing. You don't get to invent a finding that isn't in the RO. You don't get to diagnose anything that the technician didn't say, and you don't get to tell the customer what to do. So now how does this work? This is always available to me, so I'm going to copy it. I'm going to come back to my repair order, and there's a bunch of different ways to do this, but this is the way I like I like to use this, is I u- I pay for Gemini's Gemini's AI. So Gemini is Google's large language model. And at the tier I use, I get a little thing in my browser that I can do this, and it says, "Hey, how can I help?" And when you do this in the browser, what it's doing is it's sharing my browser with the AI. So now the AI can see basically everything I can see, right? And now I'm just going to paste in... Nope, definitely not gonna do that one. I am going to paste in my instructions. And then this is also another important one. You typically get options with your AI what kind of model do you want, right? You almost never want to use this. This is basically the free AI. Free AI is bad, and I'll go into this a little later, but free AI is typically the lowest capability. It thinks the least amount, it gives you the fastest response, and it gives you the least accurate response. There's a time and a place for this but in most cases I use thinking. So I've given it my thing, and we're gonna let it think. And while it does that, Jimmy, do we have any questions? Jimmy Lea: N- none questions that have come through yet. But I'm absolutely fascinated. When you designed the voice of your service advisor, did you use your LLM to design that language for your service advisor voice? Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yes. Okay. So I created... So I've Russian nesting dolled my my brand voice. I used an LLM to come up with my initial brand voice document. Yeah. So it, it contains all the rules of the brand, and I ha- I do that by having the AI interview me about what I want and then telling it I want a brand voice document, and it gives me something there, because I'm not, I don't have a marketing background. I don't know how to create a brand voice. Okay. And then what I do is I share that document again with the AI, and I'm telling it what I'm trying to accomplish. I, my service writer's going on vacation. I don't I need to understand, I don't understand cars super well. I need to be able to give the customer- the information about their repair and their estimate. Here's, these... This is what I want. Here's my brand voice document. Write me a list of instructions and it- make sure you incorporate the brand voice. Jimmy Lea: Nice. I love that. So even in your instructions, you were talking about your service advisors leaving. Eh, let's say the service advisor is still there, we've got a brand new service advisor or we want to have a voice that is able to speak to a client or a customer in a, in easy terms and not speak down to them, but speak on a level that they're gonna be able to understand. That could be part of the instruction for the service advisor voice as well, correct? Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yes, absolutely. And it is part of it is part of mine, right? When we're talking about, warm, straightforward, neighborly, no pressure, you're an expert neighbor who explains things clearly 'cause you genuinely care. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. And that ensures what I get back should be to that level. But also, what did I say earlier? We're not just blindly trusting this. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: So we're going to look. So here's what we have, right? Jimmy Lea: And one more question here before you go into this. Jonathan Seitzer: Sure. Jimmy Lea: Do you find that as you continue to use this LLM and as you continue to feed it with information, does it improve in its voice and tone and become more refined as to past inputs versus no? No, sweet. Jonathan Seitzer: No. This is very important when you're dealing with LLMs. These things don't learn. So the moment I push this button right here and it spouts- Yeah ... out a new one, it's forgotten it's ever told me anything. Jimmy Lea: Oh. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. So there are certain applications now. So ChatGPT, Claude they do retain some memory. Okay. You can say, "Hey, remember this about me." So Claude's always going to remember that my name's John, that I own a shop, that I'm in New York, that I have a dog named Chrissy, that kind of stuff. But it's not... The AI does not improve itself, right? That's what all, y- that's what all these LLM companies are spending billions and billions of dollars trying to get to. It's not self-improving. It doesn't remember. If this thing spat out something that was totally awful, what I would probably do is I would figure out w- where and why, and then I would have to come back here and tinker with these instructions. Jimmy Lea: Change your instructions, yeah. A question's coming from John. Is there any way for you to share your instructions that you're using with Claude? And I think the answer is yes. However, the deeper answer or should be maybe... Jonathan Seitzer: Create your brand voice. Jimmy Lea: Create your brand voice. Have that interview with your ChatGPT or with your Claude and have chat ask you all those questions so that it comes through for you. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. And you can do... y- I'm sure a lot of people are saying how do I do that?" You... These things are, it's... Once you get the hang of talking to this- Yeah ... it's wild how fast it unlocks. So how do you do it? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: You ask, "Interview me. I need a brand voice document for my auto repair shop." You give it as much context as you can. "Interview me to get the thing." And it will quest- one question at a time, ask you questions. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, that's exactly it. Yeah the answer is yes. However, have your own Jonathan Seitzer: interview. If y- if I, if you use, if I send you my stuff, you're using my brand voice, which I think I have a great brand voice, but that doesn't mean it's yours. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no. And I know, John, I know, John, you're gonna have a great conversation with your ChatGPT and have it interview you what kind of voice you want. And brand voice is the keyword that you wanna use there, John. Yes. So maybe what we c- develop here, Jonathan is some guidelines for them creating their brand voice. But anyways let's go back to what you're showing here, because- Sure ... this is where it gets exciting in putting this information into the point of sale system. Jonathan Seitzer: Yep. So here it's welcoming me to Dempsey's, so there's something in there that made... I wrote that told it I'm brand new. But yep, here we go. Here's our first mistake, right? This is not a 23,000 mile Mustang. You see there's nothing on the here that tells you it's a 23,000 Mustang. And again, we used the big, we used the more complex- Jimmy Lea: Don't create information ... marketing. You told it not- Yes ... to make stuff up, but it still made it up. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. But now it's looked at the, it's looked at the thing, right? It tells you what's completed and approved, so here are all the recommendations it's got, and now it's going to go through each of the recommendations, and it's gonna, So f- the first thing it's gonna do, it's gonna tell me what the fix is, right? So we're gonna walk through this, then it's gonna give me the customer talk track. These are actual phrases I can use on the phone with the customer. "Our technicians noticed the drive belt showing signs of age," things like that. And then it's going to talk about what our recommendation is, why it's important, and what happens if we wait, right? Yeah. And for a solid week, and for those of you who don't know if you are s- if you're a single owner shop with a single service writer- Yeah ... the fastest way to make your phone ring is to send your service writer on vacation for a week. We did almost a record amount of cars. And it was John sitting at a desk waiting for Gemini and Claude to spit out the, trying to talk. And I actually, one of my parts distributors said I closed a lot of sales that week, so it was good. Congratulations. We still managed. All right, so that's that's our first demo here. Let's do- Let's do some analysis, right? Yeah. All so now we're going to go directly into Claude itself. Give me just a second to pull up my demo file, and we're gonna do a parts... We're gonna do some parts information. You guys aren't... You'll see this change in the Claude screen. I'm dropping two I'm dropping two CSVs. So I'm dropping some parts data from my from my shop management system. And now- So Jimmy Lea: this isn't the whole catalog from your parts supplier, this is what you've used- Yes ... Jonathan Seitzer: in the past. This is parts data for the shop that, have come in, have come out. So basically now I need to tell the AI what I want. Here's why we're doing this. I need to get some information to my accountant. Can you look at the provided data and let me know what my parts inventory cost was at the end of February, March, and April? Break the cost into parts, tires, fluids, and batteries. Jimmy Lea: So that was all voice dictated. Yes. You used just the microphone s-... Okay. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. So I have a little program on the thing. I push a button, it records my voice. A lot of computers have this built in. I use a paid one just 'cause it's a little better, and guess what guess what's undergirding it? AI. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: So here we go. So this is what I want. Tell me what my pa- I gotta get my accountant what my on-hand inventory co- or price was. So we're gonna let it think for a little bit. And yeah, do anybody have any type of questions or anything we can go through as this thinks? 'Cause now we're at the part where this is probably gonna take a little bit of time, 'cause we're asking it to do a lot of different things and generate a lot of different information. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So right now the process it's going through is opening each of these files and- ... looking into the dates, the parts, the costs. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Jimmy Lea: And it's trying to answer the question you've asked. So it's crunching a lot of data, and I'm assuming you've probably got hundreds of lines of data that it's crunching through. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yeah. This is, every part we've ordered or has gone in or out the door since February 1st. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Jonathan Seitzer: So- This Jimmy Lea: could take a minute. Jonathan Seitzer: It's... You'd be surprised. I, my guess is probably... So right now it's tr- it's understanding the structure. Yeah, my guess is it's gonna take a minute or two. Yeah ... and anoth- that's another thing to get, to get used to as you're using these more advanced models. So there are basic models, there are thinking models, and then there's ways to make thinking models think longer. As you're using more and more complexity within your models, as you're turning on more features, if you're on these paid plans, you have usage limits. And somewhere depending on how much you pay it's, you're gonna hit your usage. Jimmy Lea: Got a question here from Sierra. She's asking, "Is this dir- linked directly into your shop management system, or do you have it upload all of the documents first, and then it does its searches?" Jonathan Seitzer: So I uploaded all the document for this demo. So I have an AI that is linked directly into my shop management system, or parallel linked via a public API. But we'll get more into that in two weeks. This is where the, I'm willing to spend nine hours on a Saturday building a connector into my shop system 'cause I'm a dork. Jimmy Lea: N- nerd. The preferred term is nerd. You're a nerd- Oh ... and we love nerds. Nerds are awesome. They're amazing. It keeps the world spinning, yes. Jonathan Seitzer: But yes. Jimmy Lea: So you love to nerd out on developing... this is your hobby. This is your go-to. This is your fun time. This is relaxing for you. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yeah, this is I like building software and I... I like building software and I like building things that, that help me understand kinda what I've jumped into. 'Cause I can't stress this enough, I have not been working on cars for the last 15 years. Yeah. Or been a small business owner, or done anything that I do day to day anymore. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. I'm glad you have this as a hobby. This is so much fun. This is where AI is going to assist the humans, and AI is gonna assist us to become better. I think it's gonna elevate us as a human race. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. So while that thinks, let's do another one. So we'll jump into Gemini. And so everybody knows, my AIs of choice are Claude and Gemini. I've used ChatGPT. I have no problems with with it. Actually, ChatGPT's new model, I'm told, is spectacular, which was just released in these last couple of weeks. It's just a matter of, the, there, you can only pay for so many things, and for what I use Claude for- Yeah ... it just makes more sense for me. But you can do this across just about any one. There's, and, there's a lot of, i- as you get more into this, there's a lot of, "Oh this model's good, and this model's good." The ranking changes week to week, right? Anthropic's on top now. Three months ago everybody was saying Google had ended the debate. Yeah. Don't, you don't have to do exactly what I'm doing. But here, let's we can... and the beauty of this is we can kick off parallel demos. So allow me to pull my folder here. Let's do something a little easier here. Jimmy Lea: I thought that said disco. Jonathan Seitzer: So this, here's what I wanna do. I've just joined a local chamber of commerce, and they're sending me a welcome packet. Can you read it and give me a list of action items I should do in the next five, 10, and 30 days? Jimmy Lea: That's hilarious. Jonathan Seitzer: Jimmy, do you- That's awesome ... read PDFs anymore? What are you, Amish? Jimmy Lea: Evidently. Jonathan Seitzer: I'm new to all this. I can't be, I can't be bothered to open and read PDFs. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Okay, go back to the other one. Did Claude finish? Jonathan Seitzer: Claude did finished. Okay. Don't contain ending inventory. So yeah, this is where it gets funny. So this is where it'll start to quibble with me, right? On-hand, list of every SKUs. So now it's given me... Here we go. So this is my... We'll ignore February 'cause that was half a month. But yeah, so now I can, to my accountant, I can say this was my parts on-hand cost and please get that to my ba- get that on my balance sheet," right? And, three minutes. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's great. The other things you would have had to have done is gone into your Excel file and been an Excel wizard. Which I'm a pretty good Excel wizard. I know a couple of people that are better than me. But yeah, it wouldn't have taken me three minutes. It would've taken me a heck of a lot longer than three minutes. Or- I click on data. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. Or I would have had to have I would have had to have pulled Excel files for February, for March, for data, and now I just all in one throw it into the thing. I don't have to spend a bunch of time playing around in pivot tables. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: And now I've got something. Now, obviously, double-check it. Yeah. I, I would, I've so I, I know this one works 'cause I've done it before. I've double-checked the numbers, so I know when I ask Claude this thing, 99% chance I'm going to get it right. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Jonathan Seitzer: All right. So there's that one. There's this one. And here we go. First five days, right? Oh my God. Things to do. Here's what to get done in 10 days. Here's 30. Now, in the next webinar, I can show you how to then fire this into your to-do list or project management tool, like a, an Asana or a Trello or something like that. And now it's not just a thing that lives on a web browser on my computer, it's on my phone in my app that I can go, I watched the video, click. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Jonathan Seitzer: And... Jimmy Lea: And you didn't have to read the PDF, Mr. Thomas. Jonathan Seitzer: Oh, gosh, no. It's, yes. Think of the time, think of the time savings. Now- Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah ... Jonathan Seitzer: w- we joke now because it's, it's one PDF and who can't read one PDF? I'm, maybe I'm unique in this. I get between 15 and 30 newsletters a day- Yeah across technology, politics, economics, yeah, all the stuff I used to have to pay attention to that I still like paying attention to. I don't have time to read 'em all every day, so I have a tool that collates all of them and then turns them into a 20-minute podcast for me to listen to. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. So you're, so you've customized 15 newsletters into one single podcast, and you listen to it while you drive home from work. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. So I do it twice a day. So I have a morning one and I have an evening one. So I listen to the evening one after, while I'm making dinner. I listen to the morning one as I'm finishing up my morning paperwork here and walking around and checking on things. Jimmy Lea: I love it. You're such a nerd. Jonathan Seitzer: I know. But it's Jimmy Lea: all- I'm glad I know you, John ... it's- I'm glad you're part of this industry. I'm glad you're helping share this with the rest of the world. Thank you. And the other John wanna know how it works. Jonathan Seitzer: It's all about buying back minutes, right? Time- Yeah ... and time is truly the only finite thing that we have. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: And if it, if 20 newsletter I want to read my 20 newsletters. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: I don't have the, I don't have two hours to do it every day. So- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Jonathan Seitzer: but I got 20 minutes to listen. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure, especially while you're multitasking, you're driving, you're building making dinner. Yeah. All right. So what else are you gonna show us? Jonathan Seitzer: All right. So this last one is just a variant of the one that we did, but it's a lot more shop oriented. So here I am attaching one, two, three, four, five, six files for the month of March. How do I wanna say this? I need to understand better how my month went. Please show me a breakdown of my top five services by make, model, and category, as well as the revenue generated for each. Jimmy Lea: Wait a second, Jonathan. You could also do this for an entire year to discover your most profitable vehicles as well too, right? Jonathan Seitzer: So that's actually a really good- call out. So technically, yes, but when you're dealing with these AIs, another fun thing to keep in to keep in mind is that the AI can only take so much contact, context. So what is context? Context is everything that's going into this conversation. So these conversations, like the AI's not really having, we're not having a chat, right? If I go away for four days and then come back to this chat in this window and answer a question, what's going to happen is the entire conversation is going to get sent back into the cloud. The LLM's going to reread the whole thing. Again, like I said, this has no memory. So every time you're having a long con- a conversation with AI, it's basically sending the whole conversation back and then returning the whole conversation back with a response. So the longer the conversation you have, the more you're filling up this context window of however many million tokens or hundreds of thousands of tokens, and once you hit that window, the AI will start to... it starts to get weird after a while. It's, it becomes more prone to making making mistakes because it just can't... It doesn't have the capacity to remember everything. So if you're ever on Claude and you're having a long conversation with Claude, and that it's compacting, that's where it's suddenly, it's taking that context, throwing out what it thinks it can, and trying to keep the relevant points to keep the conversation going. So when I say, "Oh, yeah, could I throw this for a whole year?" Yes, but I don't know how well... that just might be too much for the AI. So typically what I do is every month I run one of these. And at the end of every week I run one of these, and I pull top-line metrics out for the week, and I keep that in a tracker like its own Excel document, and now I can, at the end of the year, I can point the AI at that Excel document and tell it to give me yearly insights without overloading the context and risking you're gonna get some bad information back. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Oh, that's awesome. All right. Jonathan Seitzer: So what- But yeah, look how fast this, look how fast this one came back, right? Here we are, top five service categories, repair versus inspection versus o- over the counter versus our snowplow business. We had 57 Fords, 33 unique, then Chevy, Dodge, Jeep and then we've got... that's, yeah that was an engine. So here's the actual, this is the fun... here's where you get insights, right? Jeep, revenue we had 10 unique ROs, but look at the revenue, right? So Jeeps are my unicorns. I don't get as many Jeeps as compared to Fords and Chevys, but the revenue, way up there, right? My- Yeah. So I know per ticket when I see a Jeep come in, oh, there's a chance this is going to be a much higher ticket for my shop, and that way I know. I know with three months of data that Jeeps and Silverados are what keep the lights on here. But as a snowplow seller also, I also know I have a lot of Silverados in this area, so when it's time for me to make my order for what type of snowplow mount kits am I making this year, I'm skewing to what I know I have a lot of, and I know I have a lot of because the da- I've got the data in this thing and it's summarizing it very cleanly for me. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: So yeah. So that is that is my presentation. Nice. Our little... Or those are our live things, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: What time are... 1:48. All right. I can get through the rest of this pretty quick. All right. So again to summarize our feed it section make sure you're using the right tools that your shop needs. Start with the big ones, but I can't stress this enough, you're gonna have to pay out of pocket. Start with the $20 models, see where it gets you. Up your spend as you find value. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: Can't use that one. Don't throw your payroll data into this. The, the, these are going into the cloud. And also make sure that your that what you're getting back is accurate. You gotta check its work the first couple times, and that's not, I don't think, an unreasonable thing, right? You wouldn't hire a human and just let him go. Same thing here. In two weeks we're going to talk about the next evolution of this. The word you're probably hearing a lot now is agents. If you think of AI as a giant brain, think of agents as arms and legs. So we'll be talking about that in the next thing. But this is one important thing I wanna give to you guys before and, forgive me if I'm about to be a little vulnerable here. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Jonathan Seitzer: On the screen is the email you get from your company when you're laid off. So this was mine. Jimmy Lea: Oh. Jonathan Seitzer: Though, if you wonder why I'm not on Wall Street anymore, this is why. Now, AI did not take my job. I did not get laid off because of AI, and honestly, blessing in disguise 'cause now I have this cool new job. But there are a lot of people, and this is incredibly important I think, this is somebody who was an auto repair customer much longer than he's been an auto repair owner. If you live in an urban center with a large white collar population, understand that a lot of them are worried that this is coming. So when I'm using AI in my shop, and I am using AI a lot, you guys have all seen this, it's never customer-facing. I'm using it to make me better, but you saw my brand voice, right? I don't want my customer to ever think that they're dealing with an AI. 'Cause I think they n- you know, I think where I live, where there's a large white collar population, there's a lot of people that are worried about this. So by all means, use AI to increase, to make yourself a Superman inside your shop. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: But be aware that people that, your customers probably have opinions about this, and use it use it for you. Don't push it to them if you're not sure they're, how they're going to take it. And that's my last thing. Jimmy Lea: Oh, man. I love it. I love it. A great shout-out here from Wayne. "Great job. AI's not gonna replace people, but love how it multiplies the effectiveness of the staff and the effectiveness of you as an owner and the effectiveness of your service advisor." It's really gonna help those relationships and those communications to happen at a much, a m- much better level. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Definitely. Jimmy Lea: Dude, John, this is awesome. Question here coming from... k- question, comment. It's more of a shout-out from Joshua. "There are solutions for connecting directly to your SMS." This is, in his estimation the best and easiest approach. Jonathan Seitzer: Y- I think it depends on your SMS. Like in my case to connect to mine, I had to talk to the I had to talk to them. I had to tell them what I was doing. I had to, make sure that they understood I w- I was building something for me, not something I'm trying to take to market. Yeah ... but y- you're right. Some of these SMSs, I think as we get more into it, they're going to start, it'll move into that rented space, where maybe from inside the SMS you can start to get a lot of this information. But there are ways to connect. Your mileage may vary depending on who your user is. Mine took a little bit of elbow grease. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. Great information, John. Thank you. This opening up, opens up a whole new world of possibilities for what we should look at as we go down this road with AI. My daughter, she came to me and she says, "Man, I'm really worried about AI. I think it's gonna replace my job." And I said it's not gonna replace your job, but the person who does understand how to use AI is the person that's gonna replace your job." Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. And one of the things I liked to stress back in my old life is right now there are no old graybeards of the AI world, the way there are in just about every industry. The- Yeah ... those of you, those of us who are using it and figuring it out and charting the course, we're the ones who decide how it winds up going and what it winds up being good at. Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. For sure. John, this is gonna be awesome, man. Any advice going into our next webinar, any advice for what people can do to prepare? Jonathan Seitzer: I would research things like ChatGPT's Codex or Claude Code and CoWork. Those are the two most accessible kind of agent harnesses out there. What I would advise against is Claude, or not Claude OpenClaude, something like that, Hermes Agent, some of these open source plug your agent in. Please don't go out and buy like a MacBook Neo or a Mac mini, if God help you, you could even get a Mac mini anymore. These agents are the reason why you can't buy Mac minis right now or a Studio Ultra. The next piece is, so I would say this, if you know what the terminal is on your computer the next webs- the next website or the next web- webinar's gonna be very useful. If if you've never coded anything or you're not super, I'll do what I can to show you guys where it is and how it goes. But the next stuff is all nice to have fun extras, but don't feel like the next one you gotta, it's all stuff you gotta do. You're not missing out if you don't do this. And it comes with work. It like, how important is your Saturday? Me? Well- Not super much, but... Jimmy Lea: but this is your hobby. This is what you're doing. Exactly. This is your relaxing enjoyment time. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Jimmy Lea: So what I'm hearing you say is let's get into a ChatGPT and have a conversation. Yes. And for the other Johns of the world, have a conversation, have chat interview you about what you want your brand voice to be- Jonathan Seitzer: Yes Jimmy Lea: so that you can create a prompt for other LLMs to use as your brand voice as you're talking to them Jonathan Seitzer: Yep. Jimmy Lea: So beyond them creating a brand voice and getting ready for two weeks down the road, open ChatGPT, have a conversation. Open Claude, if that's the one you wanna use. Open Gemini, if that's the one you wanna use, and have a conversation preparing for what we're gonna do in two weeks. Is that... Are we gonna go through setting up an AI agent here in two weeks? Jonathan Seitzer: I, I can... So cl- that's where the Claude code. So Claude Claude Cowork is like a out of the box agent, right? And you just kinda have to point it at a spot on your computer to go. Like a full setup. Now I've got full dork, integrated agent on a server somewhere else that I talk to in Slack. Y- we're not gonna do that. But- Oh, s- Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: you are such a nerd. This is awesome. Oh, Jonathan Seitzer: yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see a comment from Jeff. You heard at a conference Claude is better. I said this earlier. It's, it bears repeating. Claude is winning now. Gemini was winning a month and a half ago. ChatGPT will have its moment again in the sun. Use the one you get the most value from and the one that you're comfortable paying whatever the price is to use it. My preference is Claude. I like the answers it outputs the most. Some people really like the way ChatGPT sounds or comes back to them. They like the quality of the answers. It really is a pers- preference. There, Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini whatever you pick, you're not you're not losing out too much I don't think. I think you're gonna get roughly, especially if what you're getting it, looking for is data back, you're going to get roughly the same quality of answers if you're using the paid versions. As long as you're using the paid version you stick. Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Jonathan Seitzer: peggy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Last question right here with Peggy. Where can- Jonathan Seitzer: YouTube University ... Jimmy Lea: AI answers for simple tasks like emails and calendars, et cetera. She didn't even know where to start, so this is for the total novice. Where can she start? Jonathan Seitzer: So there's a great channel on YouTube. Search a person named Elliot Prince. He's he's a British guy. He does a lot of stuff with Claude Cowork. He's got a bunch of videos of, like, where to start, here's what it does, here's what you can do. And also he makes his prompts and his lessons available publicly. Beware when you're on YouTube, a lot of these YouTube channels are really designed to get you to sign up for their paywalled course. That hasn't been the case I've seen with that one, and that one was really helpful as I was transitioning from Gemini more into Claude. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And he's even taking the stance now that he's been with Claude for so long, he's now looking at ChatGPT and saying, "Oh, my gosh it's improved so much." I've gotta dig back into this to dig more into it. Yeah. So he's, even he's going through those gyrations of- Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: they're constantly improving. Jonathan Seitzer: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Yep. That's awesome. For those of you who are listening thank you for joining us. John, thank you for joining. Thank you for sharing your nerd wisdom. We, we need people like you in the world, and in fact, we need all sorts of people. It's great that we're not all rubber stamp identical of each other. We are all different in this world, which makes us great. So thank you, John. I really appreciate it. Jonathan Seitzer: Thank you, all. It's been a pleasure. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And for the rest of you who are listening, we we at the Institute, we are a coaching training company. We're a coaching training business. We're here to help you take those next steps, like we did with John when he bought a shop and didn't know what to do. We were able to step in. He hired us as his coach and his mentor. We even started coaching him prior to him buying the shop. So that's how valuable the, and important a coach can be to you and to your business to help take it to those next levels. So if you found this information valuable, if you found it interesting, understand this is the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more that we can do and that we can do together. Reach out. We'd love to have a conversation with you and to talk about your shop and your situation, 'cause yours is gonna be different than John's. Let's have a conversation to talk about what you can do to build the best business you can possibly build. My name is Jimmie Lee. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. So excited to be here with you today, and look forward to having our next conversation. Talk to you soon.

203 - The Future of Shop Training Is Personalized and Daily April 22, 2026 - 00:53:43 Show Summary: Daily training keeps shop teams sharp and improving without disrupting workflow. Short mobile lessons build technical knowledge communication and consistency across roles. Data and gamification drive engagement while revealing skill gaps. Strong training habits lead to better performance stronger culture and long term business growth. Continuous development is key to retaining talent and preparing future leaders.   Host(s): Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach Guest(s): David Boyes, Founder of Today's Class Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Importance of daily training and consistent staff development [00:02:00] – Mobile learning delivers quick effective training in minutes [00:04:00] – Gamification creates competition and boosts engagement [00:06:00] – Advisors improve by strengthening technical understanding [00:08:30] – Training data helps identify individual skill gaps [00:12:00] – Expanding into leadership and communication training [00:18:00] – Training fills gaps for shops with limited access to resources [00:24:00] – Investing in people drives retention and shop performance [00:31:00] – Developing young technicians is critical for the industry [00:40:00] – Ongoing training separates top performers from struggling shops   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Traa892RFnk   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Wayne Marshall: Welcome today for our webinar. It's exciting to have David Boyds with us from today's class. Some of the things that we talk a lot about at the institute comes down to the teaching and the training and development of staff. And when we think about what we're doing and as we work with different clients, we're dealing with it and we talk one-on-one or do other different events, and we're doing those on a weekly and monthly basis. But the beauty of some of the things that we have here to talk about today. That we're gonna have David share here more in a few minutes really goes into that daily constant feeding, developing of people and that focus. So today we want to get into and share a little bit more of the benefits and how to reinforce those different messages and those different things. It's a privilege that at the institute we have this opportunity to have a very strong partnership and alliance with today's class. Some of the content that we've developed and that we're doing, we're sharing with today's class. And David will talk a little bit more where we're able to take that content and he's been able to develop it and put it into that little bite-sized 2, 3, 4 minute daily things. And it could be on advisor, how to develop your phone skills, things that you can do better, that reinforces not only what we're teaching, but to make those people better on a daily basis and how it comes together. So with that, David. Thank you for coming with us today and sharing some things. If you would share a little bit about today's class, talk a little bit more as to what the content is how you get it out there, develop and the importance and what people can expect. David Boyes: Yeah. I'm really happy to be here. Today's class has been around for a long time, but what we've really focused on for the past few years is to make training as accessible as possible in a shop environment. We know that it can be difficult to carve out. 30 minutes of time, three hours of time carving out time in an evening. So we're coming at it a little different way, primarily through using mobile apps to push training that, that takes three to five minutes, typically for each user. It's engaging, it's gamified, but maybe most importantly it's personalized. So if we have, for example, in ATech, their training's gonna be different than a GST or an advisor. Our background was more on the technical side of things. We'd been an a SE accredited training provider for a number of years, so we really grew up in that space, providing technical training that could support a chef. This collaboration with the institute is exciting because now we're able to leverage their expertise and really take it to a whole new level. We know that a service advisor, for example, we can help them better understand technical concepts. However, the institute can take us to a whole nother level when it comes to things like, phone skills, communication, even things like accountability. So we're really excited to move forward here. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, it's it's interesting, you talk about gamification and I know when we, this goes many months back when we started working together on different things we, here at the institute, there was a group of us, Cecil being one that was part of it. So we're going on and be it on technical advisor, whatever it is we're going on and we're doing exactly what your clients were doing. And it got to be very competitive inside our walls because I'm doing the daily test and it's the same one that Cecil's doing, and now we're competing to see who's got 'em. All right. Am I getting more points? Am I ahead of Cecil or is he ahead of me? So that competition. It's really interesting because I know what it does to us. You're seeing that probably also with your clients because most of the people who do sign up for today's class, it's that rooftop or that shop with multiple people engaged. How well is it moving the needle when they get into the gamification or the competition? Yeah. 'cause guys got egos. David Boyes: Absolutely. So the reason that we include that gamification in there is 'cause we need to promote that daily habit. So this gets into some adult learning capabilities and motivations and so forth. But those points in the competition are a common hook. So people can earn points through being consistent with their daily training. But there's a variety of ways to leverage that. The most common thing that people will do is just treat it like a scoreboard. So if Wayne and I are on the same team, we can see who. Who's leading the pack so far resets each month. Teams can then compete against one another. So when we have various MSOs or if you're in a group, you can compete with your peers and that can just open up the doors to, to drive people to move forward. It's not something where, they have to overcommit to it, but it's a very light spirited way to keep it going. And the fun thing for us has been that. Seeing how shops come up with their own creative ways to leverage points, whether it's primarily about competition, whether it's weaving it into pay structures, incentives, tool bonuses, or ultimately creating your own reward store where you can take points and redeem them for gift cards, tools, trips, or time off. So really what we're trying to do is use the points as a way to. Create that engagement tool for a management team to be able to ensure their team Can train consistently. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to be said about. All that content that's out there. And it's like anything with learning, you gotta keep it fresh. And the more we can do to engage people on a daily, regular basis, that keeps whatever the subject matter is of what they what, while it's on the track training track that they're on I can only imagine keeping it top of mind. Has made a difference. And when you talk to shop owners, they've engaged into your services, they got their staff using it. What kind of testimonials, what kind of results are they seeing that trickle into? Obviously better work's going out the door. They're having less comebacks. People are being more efficient. They're seeing that proficiency in tech time, on and on. How does that trickle in and what are some of the comments you get back? David Boyes: Yeah. Yeah, so I'd say the, I could boil that down to a few common use cases. One, I think for service advisors, on the technical side of things, we see a lot of benefit, very common for us to hear about customers who have an advisor who's great at communicating great with people. But just lacking some of that technical expertise. Today's class is a very easy way for them to begin to. Beef up on, on some of that technical knowledge terminology that improves their ability to not only communicate with the customer. But also with the technicians in the back. So we get a lot of great feedback on that in terms of getting them up to speed, very quickly, but also in a way that's non-threatening. They can do this on their own, they can do additional self-study. So we get a lot of good feedback from an ROI perspective on service advisors. When we talk about advanced level technicians. A lot of this gets into how things have changed. We talk about daily re-engagement, reinforcement. This is not a static industry. Things are moving all the time. So as we keep our content up to date and fresh, as a very experienced technician, you might see something you didn't know or something that has changed since you last learned it. So staying in front of it tends to be pretty key. And then from a measurable perspective, another area that we often see relates to a SE certifications. And a lot of that comes to prep and making sure that people are confident to go into these certifications through the way that we deliver training, the way that we measure where folks are. We've got great reports on building individual folks confidence, so they head into those certifications knowing that they're gonna pass it. Wayne Marshall: And on a reporting side, you are getting a lot of the information. Obviously you're seeing how people are, when they engage, what they're engaging in, how they're scoring or testing. So if they're showing because at the end, as they go through it. The test is gonna tell you if you've got competency of subject matter. So at the end, as you report all this, it's obviously going back to the shop owner. And they're being able to see where there's gaps or weakness. How are they using that then as part of that overall development and learning? As they continue to build it out? David Boyes: Yeah, so measurement is key for everything we do. We have tons of data and we have a variety of shops that are data junkies and other folks that want more of that headline data. What we tend to advise is to look at that data to inform some of the additional training you may need. The today's class experience is something that you can do in three to five minutes a day, but we recognize that technicians and advisors are gonna need more. Where this can help is the data can begin to inform that perhaps these two technicians over here really need some additional help, in, in AC services or electrical. And now instead of sending your whole shop to per an evening class, for example, let's send these two folks that really need help. So having a line of sight to what they actually know, what they actually are confident in can help a business operator make more informed decisions. Wayne Marshall: And I know part of this, besides just that daily interactive. You also are doing some other things where you're doing online training, where you just recently did one on air conditioning. And ended up doing it on live where you had 40 plus. Techs and others coming in that one of your instructors went through and took even that deeper dive to help them through this training or getting them to that certification. So it's not just the daily, it's also reinforcing it in a different way. As you're looking at everything that's going on, and we've talked a little bit about this, everybody's talking about ai. And they're talking about how this is changing and embracing, and I know you're looking at it. We're looking at it and how can we use it as a tool to reinforce and to help fine tune that messaging. Tell me a little bit, I know you've got some things in the works, nothing ready to announce, but tell me how you guys are looking at this, because it is changing our industry. David Boyes: Yeah. No, we need to use it as an enabler. So it allows us to evaluate content, be more consistent, with the volume of training that we push out each day and the data that we're crunching. It allows us to identify trends. So when we talk about this AC session that we did the other day, the benefit that we get. As thousands of users are training in the platform. Each day. We can get insights that say, people are struggling with this, or people misunderstand this, or maybe we need to enhance this particular content area, and the AI can help us crunch through that data more effectively. So it really just becomes something that allows us to do our job more effectively. Scale across broader data sets, more quickly. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. What's one of the biggest challenges that you guys face right now when it comes to the training and development of, what do you hear? What's some of the feedback that people are looking for that we're trying to continue to, as we do at the institute? What's the gap and how are we gonna start to develop and close that gap? David Boyes: Yeah. I'd say for us it's a bit of a balancing act because we know that the fundamental. Our key. A lot of times people are looking for what's next and we have to balance that to keep them looking ahead, but also recognize, are they doing those services right now in the shop? Yeah. We've got, limited resources for development. We have to have that balancing act. So we use those data insights, industry insights and feedback from customers to say, here's how we can prioritize our development roadmap. Wayne Marshall: Are you finding the need to become very manufacturer or model specific or anything like that? Or is it still staying? Pretty universal? David Boyes: It's pretty universal at this point, 'cause again, there, there's such deep rabbit holes you can get into once you go into that make and model specific. So at this point, we haven't gone down that road and we'll continue to explore it, but at this point we still have a lot of work that remains to be done kinda more from the broad level. Wayne Marshall: So part of our partnership reliance is you've been working hard 'cause you had a lot of great things and obviously you've moved the needle. You've got about 11,000 users roughly on the system, which is a big number. And it was very technical specific. And now we're starting to get into. More of those soft skills and we've been honored to be able to help with some of that content and information that will help with that service advisor, telephone skills what other things, when you talk about soft skills. Are we working on or you wanna work on to develop? David Boyes: Yeah, so leadership, accountability and shop operations more broadly. We wanna be careful to not be very narrow, let's say with a particular focus on, on, on breaks or engine performance, but we wanna ensure that. Teams can work to together effectively communication, handoffs, documentation to make sure that all of that pieces together. We don't, we want to enable broader shop operations. We know we can reinforce that, get that message out daily. We're even seeing with some specific customers that they're building out best practices in terms of the way they run their SOPs, the way they run their point of sale systems, where they can dish that out to their teams and enforce those behaviors daily. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, it's we're seeing this more and more. We've been to different industry events at the institute. We've had this opportunity to interact, present on different things and why there's a lot of good things going on in the technical side, those soft skills. Very much in demand. You know how to build good culture and how to be a good leader, not just be a good manager, but a good leader that inspires and gets people to rise up as we want 'em to do. So it's something that we're, again, we're excited to be able to help develop some other content that can be used, that can be put into those bite sizes. Just good action items and a reminder of, here's something I can do today. That can make a difference in my business to be a better leader, to be a better manager to, to operationally how to get into, so I know we, at the institute, we spend a lot of time, we've got our own dashboard, we've got all these operational KPIs, but how do you then take all this good data and implement implemented into daily operations? So it's gonna be interesting. I know we got a lot of work in front of us. To get it where it needs to be, but it's gonna be fun to build it and try to make this difference. I also find it interesting, and you've talked a lot about it in the past when we've talked. Talk a little bit of how it's different. Adult learning has changed and it's gonna continue to evolve. The young people coming up, the millennials, whatever, their attention span and how they look at things and how they consume is different than me as a baby boomer. What are some of the things in the trends you're seeing and how are you trying to adapt to, if you could? David Boyes: Yeah, I'd say a lot of it starts with recognizing that there's different ways to learn. I think there's a lot of, there's a tendency to learn the way that we all did, let's say in high school, for example. We gotta be very careful when it comes to a one size fits all approach, and also for longer bursts of time. There's just a lot of research that indicates. That there's only so much information an individual can absorb and retain over time. And then everybody's probably f familiar with the idea of the forgetting curve, that we're gonna get rusty on things over time. Yeah. So we're not, we're trying to just recognize those behavioral tendencies. Some folks might roll in attention span to that as well, which can be part of it. So we're trying to be very targeted. Hit you where you need it, hit you with what's relevant and ideally motivate you to dive deeper. Motivation is a key aspect to it when you think about somebody on your staff that it has to do required training. Yeah. The common behavior is they'll work through it, try to get to that finish line and say, I'm done. However, if you can flip that around and find a topic or an area that an individual's very motivated and interested to go through, obviously they'll enjoy that more, but there's a lot of research that suggests that the retention there is much stronger. So with a lot of our strategies. We're trying to build it in that way where people can, do what they need to do, but then ideally, push deeper into areas that they're very excited about. Wayne Marshall: Yeah I'll pick on myself and, being someone who was in college in the seventies and, being in my later sixties. I'm still old school. I still gotta have stuff on paper. I wanna be able to tactically touch it, read it, and work through. I look at my kids and grandkids man, they're in the digital space, and I know it's really hard at times when you sit there and you try to feed this content. And how it's gonna stick for this person to this person. And yeah, this industry's changing. A lot. But when I look at myself and I look at a lot of owners that are out there who are in their, later fif mid later fifties and beyond. Yeah. Some of us are still pretty old school. David Boyes: And building on that, I think some of the trick in terms of what we try to do, when you think about having an individual, let's say take a course on, on breaks Yeah. Or ac. Your sense of where they might need help is attached to that broad topic? Yeah. When we break it down to these smaller pieces, we can tell you exactly where somebody's struggling, exactly where they need help and maybe we can take them for being 90% effective. To 95 to a hundred, so we can still make meaningful gains even with those small pieces. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. And and I get your daily feeds, 'cause I've got the app on my phone. I don't, I'll be honest, I don't do it every day. There was a stretch there that we are competing more internally, but it is nice and we all work with a smart device of some kind. Be it a tablet, be it your phone, whatever. So it makes sense. But at the same time, I know how it affects me and how I still learn and consume that kind of educational material. And yeah, still this day I still can't get outta the habit of not printing. But I'm not the future as they say. I'm still the present and working and I look at the generations coming up and I just wonder there's been a lot of statistics out of that attention span, how you teach, how you develop, and how they become good with their hands and do. Yeah it's getting harder and harder, yeah. To say. David Boyes: Yeah. And I think it's, constraints are a big piece of it too, because people may have a preference for those deeper dives. They may have a preference for hands-on, but I think that the reality is carving out the time or getting to the location you need to, that's not always easy. We have a lot of customers that are in very rural locations because they may not have a lot of options. Yep. You can do this on your phone. It's short, it's successful. You can dig deeper if you want, but a lot of these folks may not have the time or availability to, to dig deeper. And again, as I said earlier, we don't view this as the only solution that, that, folks can leverage. I think this fits that gap where you can build from other things and tie it all together. Wayne Marshall: Yeah I gotta compliment you, as I've looked at some of the technical training it's very detailed now. It is in those snippets. So you know, you're not gonna just get on for five days and go through breaks as an example or air conditioning. And at the end of that, say, Hey, I'm ready. Now go take the a SC, I can be certified, whatever. But there's enough content in those lessons that you look at, and it's in, it's in the dozens, it's 2030, but if you get through the whole segment of you've gained and consumed a ton of information that really will get you prepared. It's, I compliment you in staff and I've been very impressed with the details and the level that you can take people. I encourage everybody, take a look. There's so many ways to stay current. There's so many ways to learn and develop, and we've talked about that. Yeah. There's a lot of service centers that are an hour, two hours from a city where training is gonna be happening, and now the expense of sending someone who's got a drive, maybe there's a hotel room. You go down the list. It adds up and it gets really expensive fast for some of these different events. David Boyes: Yeah. And that's where I think our data for our customers that do that they're in a good position to make that call, because you're gonna have to do that hands-on training. You're gonna have to travel. But if you can do so by knowing that this employee's ready for this training. Let's flip it around. Now, maybe I don't make that expense because I know you're already beyond it and I can say, Hey, we're not gonna invest the time and the cost to do that. Let's wait for a session that's more appropriate for you. Yeah, Wayne Marshall: no I hear you. What are some other areas that you're considering? I know we've talked about, besides the technical, we've already talked a little bit about some of the other different leadership management culture. Are you gonna add in accounting, financial training? David Boyes: Financials is an area that we're very interested in. I think for a lot of, the younger, technicians, for example, that are very interested maybe in opening their own shop someday. We would love to break into that and start. Delivering some of that foundational financial experience that everybody can benefit. Whether you're gonna open up a shop or you're gonna go off and do something else. That personal finance can be key. And again, that's where we're really excited to work with you guys on that. Leverage your expertise. Yeah. 'cause I think we would all agree that everybody, Wayne Marshall: yep. David Boyes: In that shop, if they all have a good understanding of that. That's gonna improve the communication, that's gonna improve expectation setting and allow things to be smoother. Wayne Marshall: I know this is in my past life. Years ago I worked for a company, manufacturing company and I had a meeting with staff and the title of the meeting was, how do we make money? And I can remember taking the time and breaking down, materials, labor, and all the things that it took. 'cause it was a custom manufacturing company and everything that it took and showed them and staff, how do we make money? And I agree with you. I think when we start talking to coaching clients and others, the owner understands. But sometimes the service advisor, the tech doesn't realize this lack of efficiency or this happens or that happens. Erodes or eats into the overall financial statement. The other thing I, is we're seeing, and you read the statistics as I do right now in this industry, they're saying between 50 to 60% in the next 10 to 15 years of service centers are gonna change ownership. There's a lot of people and we see 'em within our marketplace who are in that age of 55 plus who want to get out and want to do it. And we're already working with clients who are selling to a service advisor or a general manager or to a tech, but now they need to understand. So this is a great way, again, not having access to certain things. Yep. To fill that gap, and it's a big gap that's coming. David Boyes: Yeah. I'll tie that back to the learning motivation. So imagine that you get exposed to a little bit of this and you're interested. Now I understand. It's not such a mystery to me. Yeah. And that might motivate you to learn more. Imagine if you're an owner having, your experienced technician come up to you and start asking some of these questions about the finances of the business, that can be a very encouraging step in that development cycle. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, very. Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. And it's something that. I know with, and I've done some coaching calls where the owner says, are you okay? Can we have one of the coaching calls? And I'm gonna bring in my, service manager, general manager, one of my advisors. And would you talk to them about all these things that we're just talking about operationally? Financially. They get it and they know it, but to be able to coach and teach and let it go out to them only moves the needle. And if they got focus on the dollars and everything that's going on, yeah, it trickles down. And now that shop's making more money, now they have the money to buy that extra specialty tool or to get the new alignment rack or to give out bigger bonuses or incentive plans for the tax to the service advisors to. Everybody else, so everybody wins. Training is just so critical and we just have to constantly do and build. And I always tell our coaching clients, we talk about when we go to events, if you don't invest in your biggest asset, which is your people. They're gonna find someone who will invest in them and that's not maybe gonna be at your shop. So I just feel like you can't stress training enough and you've gotta invest and you gotta help these people. And when you do it and it makes them better, makes you better as a shop and they know that you really do care for 'em, which builds culture. David Boyes: Yep. Wayne Marshall: All the things we talk about. As you look to the future. Do you see anything out there that is going to be a big change, big movement, any concerns or is just keep an eye on the prize as they say. Keeping an eye on what we need to do. David Boyes: We gotta keep our eye on the ball but again, I think there's a lot of enhancements from a content but also a data perspective. We want to make, we will ultimately want to move into a more dynamic. Training model right now, our customers will select the type of training that they want. It's menu driven, but whether I'm ATAC or I want somebody to focus on breaks, as we begin to get more sophisticated with data, we can look at business ops and begin to shift that dynamically and start pushing training automatically to somebody based on what they need. Now again, they can always seek out more information, but the more that we can do on behalf of the shop. The better off. We think that they are. They can certainly, take the wheel and steer it, but they they have a lot going on, and if we can use our expertise and their data to inform that, we think that's effective. Wayne Marshall: We look at shop management software, obviously. We have different things we have within our own dashboard that allows us to pick up so many different data points. And all of this trickles back down to, okay, we got all this great data, but if I can't take that data and put it in a form that gives me insight or knowledge, which allows me to make better decisions, which I like. What we said earlier is that, as a shop owner. I can see all this thing on your dashboard. I can see who's going in on a regular basis. I can see well how they're doing on the testing. I can see if they need more training. These are so important data points. No different than am I getting the right gross profit on my parts? Am I getting the right gross profit on labor that gives me the overall gross profit on my business? But if we don't take all that data and use it to have better insight and knowledge to make better decisions. Then it's just bits and bytes and it's just data. David Boyes: Yeah. We gotta be very careful with that. We will hear that constructive criticism from our customers that these dashboards are great, but there's a lot, how do I make sense of that? I know. And I don't disagree. That's gonna be some of the excitement coming going forward because we're gonna continue to refine this and make it more actionable, a little more clearer. You mentioned just some of the financial stats. If we think about the number of metrics the typical shop owner's gotta manage, it's not a short list. No. So we can do our part to try to tighten that up and connect it to those metrics because ultimately we want those training dollars to be, or those training metrics to be informing those dollars and so forth. So the better we can tighten that up. It makes it simpler from a reporting perspective and more effective overall. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. We whenever we get a new coaching client, we, start the whole conversation of, let's get a status of your business. Let's look at the health, let's start looking at some of those data points. Then it starts, okay, where do you need to train? Where do you need to develop, new skills or new opportunities? But at the end of the day, it it starts, nothing happens. Until the phone rings. That's right. Nothing happens until a customer drives into your lot and walks in the door. We can do all that, but once that starts, that gets the opportunity to sell 'em. But what brings 'em back is the quality. Of the experience with the service advisor to the quality of the work the tech did, and that it's of what it needs to be. That when the customer drives away, they have a happy experience. All that comes and we keep reinforcing it. But it all comes through training and reinforcing. One, one of the things that, we talk about from a culture standpoint, what gets rewarded, gets reinforced, and sometimes we reinforce and reward the wrong thing too. So this is an opportunity when we have the right metrics, get the right KPIs, we get the right training going, we keep it and sustain it. Now it reinforces all the right things you wanna do. So that customer experience is at a high level. The retention stays up. So when that phone rings and they come in and you get a new customer, you keep the new customer. And then you just build on that energy and we're seeing a lot of that. And I go back to the beginning. This is what's exciting of being able to work together and what we're seeing that it does to reinforce what we coach and train and speak about. So yeah, it's gonna be fun to continue to help with content. New things, new stuff, that we can get it to that next level. To truly make this, as we say, a better industry. David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Because that's what we want. David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Everybody wins. David Boyes: Yeah. We're big believers and two heads are better than one. Yeah. So it's been exciting, to work with you guys. And again we're very excited to work with experts and bring in different perspectives. 'cause I think broadly what we've done is confirm that this learning model and this access works and it's. Talking to thousands of shops, we know there continues to be opportunity where they need information, there are access limitations. So if we can get the right content piped through to those folks, the better they'll be overall. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. I agree 110%. It's just, there, there's so many shops out there and there's only enough hours in a day. David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: It's like how do we continually try to help and make a difference? I say and I've been around it for a lot of years, but this is a great industry. It's exciting, and I think we need to continue to do a better job as an industry to entice and bring in the young people. Sometimes we still have the phobia of what it was 20 and 30 years ago. It's dirty, it's greasy, it's this Cars aren't dirty and greasy like they used to be. Engines don't leak and do other things like they used to do and the electronics and everything that's into it. Is making it a more exciting, interactive and challenging activity. I think about my grandson who loves the video games and the computers and all the things, but then you sit there and you try to tell him all the other things you can do and what's in the automotive space. It is exciting. It is exciting. And what we're gonna be able to do. I don't have the right answer, but it's the only way we can do is to continue talking about it as an industry. Continue to encourage, to continue to engage, but once we get 'em in, what are we gonna do to take 'em to the next level? What are we gonna do to continue to start? Because I hear too many stories of, especially at the dealership level, the kid comes out, maybe you went to the community college. They're not through all the programs they could do it to, but they end up being a loop tech. Then the dealership keeps 'em held down and they don't want to do this. They don't want develop 'em, and they don't want to go in these other directions. So what does the guy do? He leaves. I can't make enough money. I can't support myself, so I'm gonna find another one. And he goes to another industry, might be welding, it might be, a machinist, it might something else that, that can pay him. That he is not getting because he is being held down. So I say this all the time, and as I look into the camera guys, we as a whole, as a team, we have to improve ways of what we're doing to develop the young people of this day. It is so critical and this training opportunities and the things that we're doing with today's class and it's with others in the industry, it's just so critical. If we want to retain the next generation and beyond, and it's gonna, it's gonna take time and it's gonna be hard, but we gotta start someplace and we've gotta make those investments. And it's gotta be frequent. I don't know about anybody else, but man I've had the privilege in all my years of working. I've learned a lot. But if I don't go back and refresh, I forget it. I forget it. And the daily aspect of it is huge. Yeah. It's huge. Just keep top of mind. David Boyes: Yeah. And I think, again, challenging when you think about bringing in, younger folks, I think we need to challenge some of the assumptions related to is the way that we've done it, the way it needs to be in the future. So we're trying to push a little bit in terms of this di this idea of daily engagement and the way people actually learn and what's effective. And these things will continue to evolve. The audience is changing. We need to look at them in a different way and what works. Yeah. Whether it's, we hear a lot of it, tying back to what we talked earlier about with the points and recognition and so forth. We hear from a lot of our customers when they use our. Metrics and engagement tools, that money isn't the biggest motivator for a lot of their employees. No, it isn't. It, it's the recognition, a lot of these other tools, and it's fun to see some of the ideas that they come up with. And we also notice that those incentives vary a bit from their younger crew to their more experienced crew as well. Wayne Marshall: That no, it's it's been proven for. I go back to. When I was in college in some of my classes, that was proven in statistics 40 some years ago. That money is not the ultimate motivator. It's job enrichment, fulfillment, and other things you do. And that is true. And this helps to fulfill some of those. Just inner needs psychologically that we have. David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, don't get me wrong, money's important and we talk a lot about the Maslow hierarchy, and you get into that, basic needs. Everybody needs money to pay their rent to, make their car payment, have food and that. But once people start getting past the fundamental things, the base of Maslow, and you start to climb up, you're looking for other things. You're looking for that enrichment that, fulfillment of and what fills your soul, so to speak, that makes you want to go to that job every day and do what you do because you find the challenges of it. And that's something that's important as these young people start to grow. And go through I'm curious, have you guys have any connection or. Are you gonna work to get connections with maybe some of the trade schools and or community colleges with your content that helps their students and other things? Do you got anything like that? David Boyes: We've tested it a bit. We're working with one school that we've been working with for years in Adrian, Michigan. And the, it works well. I think the trick that we sometimes find in particularly schools is. It is more of a one size fits all approach. Those instructors do need to bring you into this subject area. You're gonna have a quiz on Friday, and then we're gonna move to the next one. So the individualized approach, they often like the idea of that IEP, that in individualized program. However, it can be a distraction from what the instructors. Routine is of doing. So it's been a bit of a mixed bag, so it hasn't been a focus for us. We used to work in that business and begin to shift back towards the aftermarket. Wayne Marshall: Got it. Yeah. I could see as we at the institute have the privilege to engage with Weber right here in the community, which is one of the top automotive technology programs in the country. Yeah. And in our meetings and being part of their advisory board and group, it is interesting. We sit there and we're looking at that and how to connect better. Just as we said earlier we've gotta invest in the young people. We gotta invest in this next generation. So we've been working harder to get connected with some of the schools and do more. Do what we say, and what we preach, but to do more. But then you sit there and say, okay, so how can we continue that? So they can see that there is a very good career path of knowledge, teaching, training, development that takes from the next level. But I could see maybe someday. David Boyes: Maybe someday. And we're not opposed to do more, but it, but yeah, it's. It was interesting. We, we, particularly for teenagers, there was this thought, okay, an app-based approach would be a home run, right? And again, I think the students were interested, but it became, for an instructor, they've already got a full plate and it became an extra piece that they had to manage. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. David Boyes: But I do think that this, going to what we talked about earlier, imagine being a student and knowing that, hey, I could be taught not only about. Turning wrenches. I can be taught about sales, culture, leadership, financial. Yeah. I can learn not just to do this job, but how to run an actual business when it comes to this. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, it's exciting to look, 'cause a, again, we get many people who come into the institute and we, and I just ask 'em, how did you get to own this shop? I was the top tech at that shop or another shop, and I decided instead of working for somebody else, I wanna work for myself. David Boyes: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: so they knew the technical side. They knew the business as to fixing cars and how to, read an ro repair order and how to get it done and fix riding out the door and make the customer happy. What they didn't know is all those other skills. That makes a difference if you're in business five years from now or you're not in business five years from now. David Boyes: Lots of details and whether it's the people, the financials the legal. There's lots of layers to it where, you know, who knows? I think there's an an advantage as well. Maybe somebody gets exposed to some of those things and they say, you know what? That's not for me. I am pretty comfortable with where I am right now. I'm gonna focus on what I do well. I don't wanna have to deal with, managing people or these pieces of the puzzle. Wayne Marshall: Yeah it's a lot when you talk to some of those and I've always found it interesting and it has nothing to do with age. We we work with some young people. I mean that, when I say young, they're in their twenties and thirties. To those who 45, we're, I've got a coaching client that I'm working with here at the institute yeah, mid forties. Bought his first shot. But he was the top tech and decided I wanted to do my own thing. Yeah. And now he's building. But yeah, all of a sudden he realized why he was doing okay. He wasn't making the money. He should, he wasn't having all the success. And we started digging in and just, yeah. All that financials and just the. Standard operating procedures and processes, the HR aspect of just managing and leading people, and it's a whole different skillset. Some people have it naturally, but most. Myself included, I had to learn it and develop it over time. Oh yeah. David Boyes: It's not easy. The analogy that we'll often talk about is somebody that's a really good cook or you're very passionate about that. But running a restaurant's a whole different animal. You, amen. And I think that's one that people can relate to a bit. 'cause we've all been there. We can understand what's going on in those kitchens, but there's a lot of layers to that. And I think there's a lot of value also to maybe being exposed to something and realizing that's not for me, and save yourself that trouble. There's a lot of benefits knowing where you don't belong and if you can find that out before you commit to that step, that can be a, that can be a, Wayne Marshall: it's, it was interesting. This goes back a little bit of a shop owner. I knew he sold a shop and he went back to being a tech. Because he decided you know it, and that's okay. He said, I'm not, I don't consider a failure or anything. I realized I was not a good business owner. I couldn't, we did. Okay. But I'm a better tech. So he went back to wrenching on cars every day and I still talk to him for probably about five, six months. But he was happy and very content. It's sometimes it's not always for everybody, as they say, but yeah, it's a lot to think about as you look and how to develop that and how to get those skill sets to be that good, strong dynamic. Runner or business owner and it is it's got a lot of challenges that come into play that people just don't think about. David Boyes: Yeah. And promoting discussion among that I think is helpful as well. What we find in our experience is it's non-threatening. You can see this stuff through the app. You can get exposed to it. Yeah. There's some. Hesitancy often to raise your hand in that class I don't understand what a p and l is. Help that make sense? Yeah, so by making training available and accessible and pushing it to you, we think there's an advantage there. We're also enabling more communications through the platform as well. You mentioned the webinars that we are doing on AC this week. We've got some discussion feeds as well, but again, ideally. For a technician that's listening to this, if we can expose you to some, additional knowledge on finance, culture, leadership, et cetera, get you thinking about it and maybe discussing it with one of your peers or encouraging you to go reach out and seek more help, we think that's a benefit. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. I always find it interesting when I, when we get in conversations. Our clients and just the industry in general. And I get people saying why do I need training? I'm running a pretty good shop, or why should I get coaching? Or why should I do this? Why should I do that? I always look at it and I always look at what we see out here and if you watch golf on a Sunday and the masters we just recently have, you look at professional sports and I always find it interesting that you look at the top performers in many other things. They have coaching. David Boyes: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: they have training. Just using golf as an example. They've got a putting coach, they got a swing coach, they got, someone for this. They got so many people that are helping 'em get to the very top. And when you think about what they do to excel and stay at the top and what it takes. I always wonder, why don't we do that enough in business in general. And I look at myself when I started, got outta college many years ago, but I was blessed to have some really good people in my life who were strong mentors. I took advantage of different certification programs, other training, other things. To help build my career, to get me to where I got to. And I've been an embracer of it, even at this point. I still got people I talk to. That can help me answer those questions. So I challenge our industry out here. There's so many good resources out there and there's some really talented, sharp people talk to 'em, engage our friendly competitors we have out there in this coaching, teaching, training space. All of us just wanna make and get. I guess just a lot of pride or fulfillment of making a difference for you, making a difference that you can do and be more successful for your family, for your co, for your team. And I tell people that when you sit there and go with my shop's, got five people or eight people, I says, no, think about them and their family. You've got 20, 30 miles that you're really responsible for. That's a big burden. That's a big responsibility. Financially. We want everybody to get the best and the most out of it. So training, taking advantage of today's class. Other resources and things that are out there. They're huge. It's huge. And just as you look at many top business people, professionals, athletes, whatever, all have multiple people in their lives, helping them be the best they can be. I just say people why wouldn't you take advantage of some of these things? David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And make that investment. David Boyes: Yeah. There's a, the professional sports is such a great example for it, and I think a lot of people. They wait until it burns 'em, until they get to that point. Yeah. And it recognize that carving out the time for personal development and training plan, it can be challenging. Who knows? Maybe that's an upcoming topic that we can collaborate, couldn't collaborate. Like why we ignore this and what can happen and maybe what's happening internally for us, why we might wanna avoid it. 'cause sometimes it could be like, I'm not comfortable because I don't know this. And I'd rather just set that aside now and hope it doesn't burn me. But if we can get ahead of that and continue to build. I think most folks would agree that's gonna put you in a better spot. People always have things to learn. Things are changing so fast in this industry and look it up. If you choose in terms of the way our brains work, you're losing information, you're forgetting it over time. So if things are moving forward and we're losing stuff, you gotta stay on top of it. So if you think you've got it all figured out. Perhaps today, but I would argue it's in your interest to stay ahead of it and plan for the future. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, it's it's unfortunate we get those phone calls where. Someone says we're desperate. David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: My business is struggling. I don't have, I can't make payroll this week coming up. I can't pay my parts people. I can't. And you gotta help me. You gotta save me. And it's unfortunate that, oh, I just wish you would've called, three months earlier, six months earlier, there's so much we could have done. But you're to the point that you're so close to the end. That it's hard to turn it around. Yeah, again it's no different than we always talk. Just being focused. Great industry events are out there, great opportunities, things we're trying to do, things you're trying to do how we're trying to do it together to move that needle. 'cause it hurts me to hear that person who says they're in that tough of spot and we wanna help, but we know that they're in such a bad spot. It's just hard to get 'em to pull out. And to turn it around in that short of a window. It doesn't take a long window. But man, if we could have just had that extra David Boyes: Yep. Wayne Marshall: 60, 90 days, we could have saved it. We could have made a difference. So yeah, I think we beat up the importance of. Training and continue the development of content and education to keep you top of mind and keep it fresh. And I know we're getting down to those last minutes. Hour went by, click. I told you it would. David Boyes: Yeah, absolutely. Wayne Marshall: I said we'll get going and we'll start talking about all these things, but yeah, I mean there's just so many good opportunities. You just don't wanna see anybody miss out. And we wanna be able to deliver. And sometimes our industry doesn't have the best reputation with the consumers, so this is an opportunity to sit here and reinforce it. I don't think, and I tell, we tell this to our clients, we tell it to everybody. When people come in. And you got customers coming in, let 'em know that your techs are certified in this. Put that certificate up that your service advisor went through this training, this program. These are experts. This is a person who can, you can trust to consult with you. To give you the best and the most you need outta your car to give you that longevity. As many statistics next to your house. It's the second largest purchase unless you buy a big boat. It's the second largest purchase that you make without a car. You don't go to work. Unless you work from home. But it's so important. At least you got a house that's still there, but your car does so many more things for you that helps you keep your house. Because if you can't go to work, you're not gonna get paid. And if you don't get paid, you're not lose your house. So your car's invaluable, valuable asset. You gotta take care of it. And we as an industry can do even better by being smarter, better with our understanding the training and how things go on. I know I'm looking at my watch as we get down to the end. So what are some of your final words of wisdom? David Boyes: Building one, one on one thing you just said right there. Another tool that, that we have enjoyed rolling out, for some shops that have done it, is building up what you said with certificates and so forth with some of the gamification I referenced earlier. People can highlight that stuff. Think of, taking an Uber and looking at their star rating. We've got ways where we're able to represent, here's the topics that, this technician, the service providers graduated. That information can be made available. For those customers waiting in that shop, it might just be a little thing that indicates, Hey, these folks are continuing to grow. They're recognizing those things. But I would say from a closing thought perspective, we're again thrilled to be working, with you and your team. On taking this to an to another level. Again, really focusing on the broader shop as a whole. Trying to, improve knowledge, engage these folks, get them to be asking other questions as well. So we think there's, a lot of opportunity ahead and again we look forward to collaborating with other groups and then to try and, grow this industry. Wayne Marshall: This was very valuable and I know we have as the institute here as a whole and even outside as we've been to events. Yeah, I talk about today's class and people go, man I need my tech to need this and that. Talk to today's class. And I know we've recommended, and I know those clients that I've talked to who have engaged into your services. I've had not one complaint. Everybody's been happy. It's made a difference. They're getting a good return on that investment. It, I know it's not overly expensive, but it's something that moves the needle and it truly is a measurable reportable. We say all the time, what, what doesn't get measured, doesn't get managed. And anytime you can get those measurements and you get that data points, it gives us as leaders of a company, an opportunity to manage it better, to have those different and better conversations. Staff. 'cause all we're trying to do is move it up the ladder a little bit, just a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. The old thing of is, man, if I can just do 1% more every day, we work 20, 21 days a month on average, that's a 20% increase. By the time you get to the end of the month, what would you do with a 20% better effort or better increase in everything you're doing? That's just by doing that little bit 1% more every day. No, we're. We're happy and very ecstatic to be able to work together on the way we are to help feed some of the content, what you fed back to us that's making a difference with our coaching clients and how we engage. So it, it's exciting and I tell people who might be listening or listen to this, I know many listen after the fact. Reach out, get in touch with today's class. It costs nothing. Nothing to sit on one of your presentations as you put the group together. And you run through the features and benefits and how you do the different things you do. Take the time. All it is just 'cause what does it take? 15, 20 minutes as you go through. It's not real long. David Boyes: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: When you do your demos and just show what's available. But the knowledge gain and the opportunity is worth your time. It's really worth your time. And obviously always, we're always here at the institute. Please reach out to us. Our staff, we're here to help in another way. Training is so much, it's just so much out there that needs to continue to be worked on things that we want to continue to raise that bar of not only the content we have, the quality of it and how we deliver it out there so that people engage, learn, and we become better. And we say it all the time, better life, better business, better industry, and if we can do all this together. We're gonna have that to where you're gonna have a great run and shop. So it's gonna make your life better. It's gonna make your business better, which only makes the industry better. So I see we are up to that last couple minutes. I thank everybody. Reach out, stay in touch. Let's just keep talking and we're gonna continue to take deeper dives. As David said, we got more topics to, to cover here in the near future when it comes around training and obviously how it's consumed and the benefits of keeping it on a daily and keeping it fresh. So last words. David Boyes: Thank you very much for having me. Wayne Marshall: So glad to be here. Thank you, sir. David Boyes: Appreciate it. Wayne Marshall: It was an honor. We'll be talking more. Thanks everybody that jumped in on the live and for those later, let's talk more. We got a lot to do. Thank you.

202 - Building a Diesel Shop the Right Way With David Shaefer April 15, 2026 - 00:58:22 Show Summary: David Shaefer shares how he built Cold Front Diesel from side work into a full time operation. He credits his upbringing in his father’s shop for shaping his desire for ownership and freedom. His time in the Marine Corps helped him develop strong leadership skills and a focus on running the business. He explains the importance of investing in the shop’s foundation through facility upgrades and process improvements. David outlines his plans for growth including hiring expanding space and exploring product development. He also discusses how the industry is becoming more technical and requires a higher level of professionalism. He emphasizes training coaching and building trust with customers as key drivers of success.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): David Schaefer II, CEO / Sales Manager Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – David explains the origin of Cold Front Diesel and its unique branding strategy [00:02:00] – Growing up in his father’s shop shaped his view of ownership and freedom [00:04:00] – Meeting his business partner and starting side work while employed full time [00:05:00] – Marine Corps experience forced him into business management and leadership [00:08:00] – Transitioning from side work to full time shop operations [00:11:00] – Rapid growth led to hiring his partner and scaling the business [00:14:00] – Leadership lessons from the military focused on respect and clear vision [00:18:00] – Building a high end facility to match a premium customer experience [00:26:00] – Plans to expand into manufacturing and reach beyond local geography [00:40:00] – Advice on customer trust training and investing in coaching In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: JImmy Lea: Hello friends, Jimmy Lea here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. You are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today comes to us from Michigan. This is Dave David Schafer with Cold Front Diesel. David, how the heck are you, brother? David Shaefer: I'm doing great. Doing great, Jimmy. Thanks for having me on today. JImmy Lea: Oh, you're welcome, man. Cold Front Diesel. Where'd you get the name for? Cold Front Diesel. David Shaefer: So since we're up in Michigan, cold front is just kind of a play on the weather. Um, thought it was a unique name and you know, if you Google it, you're, you're not gonna get anything but us or weather. So it's not something that people are trying to fight over. Uh, pretty easy to differentiate us. JImmy Lea: Uh, that's cool. All right, show me. So, so where are you? David Shaefer: Right there, right in the, in the crevice up there. JImmy Lea: I love it. I, so I haven't, I've been all the way from the bottom to the top, went across the bridge to the up, but I didn't get over into the, uh, the pinky area. David Shaefer: Yep. JImmy Lea: When I was up there driving around. So, uh, that's every David Shaefer: vacation area. JImmy Lea: Heavy vacation. Really? They got a lot of camps up there. David Shaefer: Yep. Um, a lot of, a lot of the small lakes and, and the big bay is right next to us, so a lot of people are traveling off here. We have like, right about a mile or two away from us is at one point the third most beautiful lake in the world. So, uh, heavy, heavy vacation area. JImmy Lea: Wow. Third most beautiful lake in the world. Well that's, you know, that's something to stand up and say, hey. David Shaefer: Yeah. JImmy Lea: So what are the first and the second? If this is the third, David Shaefer: I don't know. We're not worried about that. JImmy Lea: We don't have to worry, but we know we're the third best lake in. Right, right. Yeah. You wanna see the third best? Come on and check it out. Well David, I appreciate you being on here and talking about your experience in the automotive aftermarket. Uh, and I really want to get into this with you and your history, your past. How did you start? In the automotive aftermarket. David Shaefer: So my, my dad, uh, was a mechanic as well, and he eventually started his own shop. And, uh, so I grew up in that. He started it in about 2001. So, um. I, I kind of grew up seeing that, you know, that was a majority of my, my young life is, is kind of watching him do that, being involved, you know, when I turned 16, I got a key to his toolbox into the shop and, um, you know, that was, uh, that was my place to kind of go and, and hang out and tin around trucks with friends or whatever. Um, so kind of knew that that was something that I wanted. I saw that, you know. Maybe he didn't make the most money in those years, but he was always present. So maybe he worked a lot of hours, but. If you forgot your backpack at, at home or something, you know, it was, it was on him. Like he could, he could go do that. He could make his own decisions, you know, he could be at the games, he could do things. So yes, he had to sacrifice time other places, but he still had the freedom when, when family mattered or something like that. So, you know, at, at least there was. It was on him, you know, and, and I thought that was, uh, that was cool. There's a lot of pride in him owning it as well. Um, so I always enjoyed that. Um. I don't know how I got into the diesel side of things really. I thought, uh, I think just in the high school area. Um, that's when, you know, I graduated in 2011, so around then some of the, some of the more powerful engines were kind of coming out and, and that was in the diesel performance industry was, was kind of starting to roll around then, and it, it seemed cool. So I ended up, I knew I wanted to do something eventually. I knew it probably wanted to be more, uh. Diesel related. So I went to a tech college. Um, but once you, once you go that route, it's kinda a weird industry to get into being truck specific. So you either go, you know, all automotive general dealership, or you go construction, industrial, semi-truck. Um, so got outta college in 2012. Um, and got a job at a Caterpillar dealership, um, that was pretty local to us, so started working on semis. Did that, uh, for, for a few years and while I was there. Um, so I'm, I have a, I have a business partner, uh, with cold front here. So, um, we actually met at, at Caterpillar. We both graduated same time. Both started working there at about the same time. Um. Both liked working on pickup trucks too. So we would come in and we'd work at my dad's shop after hours on the weekends, whatnot. Um, we were like, this is something that. We enjoy doing, you know, let's, let's see if we can make this happen. Um, so we kind of started, we just started tinkering with that. And then I actually joined the Marine Corps, went off for four years. Um, and I think that was probably what set us up the most for success because we had something that we both wanted to do. Something that, uh, we both, you know, were, we're very excited about. And then. Now I'm in a different part of the country for, for several years. Right? So, uh, what was really cool about that is you hear so many issues with partnerships, right? Um, and I think a lot of them are because you both are trying to be the same person, right? Um, so what was nice is when I was gone. I'm not physically there able to do any work, turn any, any wrenches. So it, it forced me into the management side. I can do the sales, I can do the estimates, I can do the customer contact, um, I can do the books, I can do all the business stuff, but I can't physically work on anything which allowed him to solely focus on just working, just, you know, managing the, the business side. JImmy Lea: Okay. Time out. Hold on one second. Are you saying. That you were away as a Marine and running your shop? David Shaefer: Yes, sir. And, and that JImmy Lea: was, how did you do that? David Shaefer: I mean, we were, we were still, you know, he was still working full time at Caterpillar. I was still in the Marine Corps. Right. So, oh, JImmy Lea: okay. So this is, this is the after hours, weekends we're building up our own customer base. David Shaefer: Yeah. JImmy Lea: You have that flexibility. Okay, I get it now. I thought this was like nine to five and the marine at nine or something and David Shaefer: Yeah, no. So, um, JImmy Lea: so where were, David Shaefer: yeah, it was, it was a slow buildup. JImmy Lea: Oh for sure. And congratulations on doing that. Thank you for serving in the Marines. My wi uh, my daughter is a Marine. She's stationed in Hawaii right now. She's been Oh, very David Shaefer: cool. JImmy Lea: Twice. Yes. So you, did you get put in the motor pool like really quick? David Shaefer: No, so I actually, so I was at Caterpillar for three years and my recruiter was actually, uh, a motor T mechanic and he was like, dude, you'll be perfect. You'll progress super fast, you know, if you take this motor T job, I'm like. Man, I'm not trying to take a quarter of the salary and do the same job. I said, I'm gonna go do something completely different. So, um, I get in as a combat engineer. So completely different, you know, if, uh, if you've heard of that job field, it's, it's very cool. A lot of you deal with, uh, construction and explosives. So, um, JImmy Lea: oh, you know David Shaefer: that, that's JImmy Lea: every David Shaefer: child parade, right? JImmy Lea: That's every boy childhood dream is to be in for. Construction equipment and explosive, let's blow it up and let's play in the dirt. David Shaefer: Right? Right. So, um, yeah, so I, I didn't do a, a parallel field, you know, I did something completely different. I said, if I'm gonna go do it, I'm gonna do something that, you know, you can't really do in, in the civilian side. So, um, that's, that's, that's what I went for and it was great experience. Um, and I, I credit that to a lot of. Foundation of who I am now, you know? Um, JImmy Lea: but David Shaefer: totally agree. But yeah, it gave us, uh, it gave us that opportunity to really divide ourselves and, and I really had to focus on how to operate a business, how to, how to structure things, you know, where I think a lot of people get trapped in the bays. Um, yeah. So it was a good perspective. It kind of put us in our places. And then, uh, when I got back home in, in 2019, we said, Hey, I'm back. I actually went back to Caterpillar. They brought me back on. Um, and we said, let's, let's crank it up a little hotter and let's see if you know, like. Time ticking. Let's see if we're gonna do this or not. You know, and we wanted to play it a little safe. We both had homes. I was married, um, you know, working on having kids and we, you know, I definitely had a good career. Didn't want to. Necessarily sacrifice everything, I guess. Yes. So we were being kind of cautious. Uh, we knew we had a, a safety net of, you know, my dad's shop. You know, we're not the in, in the driveway in the garage. Like a lot of people, you know, we're in a fully functional repair facility. Right. So, JImmy Lea: yeah. David Shaefer: Um, gotta give him credit for, for letting us do that. Right. That was a, that was a kickstart for us for sure. Um, so, you know, we kind of turned up the volume and, um. Things started, pick up, pick up, and then, you know, you're losing on both ends at a certain point, you know, we, we started getting a lot busier. We're, we're trying to get out minimum hours, you know, at at Caterpillar, and then we're trying to do this after hours, you know, Hey, let's do it, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then, oh, we're too busy for that. Let's do. Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then it's Monday through Sunday. You know, it's the typical, I feel like a lot of people have similar, similar core things that happen to 'em when they start a business. And I think, you know, as much as people give you advice not to do, I think it's just kind of part of the game. You know, sometimes, Hey, don't drive yourself, you know, don't work yourself into the dirt. Uh, it's kind of part of the game. Hey, you know, don't, uh. Don't do this, don't do that. We don't wanna see you go through these, these hours. We don't wanna see you go through not not doing this, we don't wanna see you, you know, not charging high enough labor rate. And I feel like it's just something that, that just naturally happens and it's getting out of it that's the most important. But, um, yeah. But anyways, uh, you know, we, we progressed and we got to the point where we needed to make a decision. We were gonna jump in or not. Um, and, uh. Since my dad was still, my dad was still working, we were basically renting out, uh, a section of the shop, if you will. Um, and I said, well, I'll go first, you know, and, uh, that way if something happens, at least I can fall back. I can work with my dad, you know, we can make something happen there. Um, so I came over, started doing full-time operation. Um. And so then I was doing it all except Caden would come in and, and do some of the wrenching in the after hours. Um, and then it was, I mean, it was five, four or five months and it was like, I can't keep up. So he came over and uh, we kind of started growing from there. JImmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. What happened to you guys when COVID hit in 2020? David Shaefer: So we, so we started January of 2021, so, uh JImmy Lea: oh. David Shaefer: We were kind of, that, that was kind of fizzled out by then. JImmy Lea: Yep. David Shaefer: Um. So, you know, that was as, as far as like, repair, it didn't really affect us, I would say, as far as like starting, starting the business or having to shut down or anything like that. JImmy Lea: No. Good for you. Good for you. That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. And so you've, you've built the business, it was you and, and then Caden came in and, and what does it look like now? What does it look like today, the footprint of your shop? Are you still renting from pops or what? David Shaefer: So, uh, at this point my dad's been coming up on retired a, a little over a year and a half. So, um, he was, he was, we were kind of working outta the same, we actually added on these two bays right here. Uh, we added on our first year, um, and. Then we kind of started pushing him further towards the front, you know, because he was trying to slow down. He was getting ready to retire. He, he knew, uh, we were gonna buy the, the facility from him and, and all of his equipment. Um, so he was, he was 60, you know, he, he just turned 62. Uh. He turned 62 and then like two months later he retired. So, um, oh, JImmy Lea: congrats. David Shaefer: He was, he was trying to slow down, um, and we were trying to ramp up, so it kind of worked. He was, he was coming down, we were coming in. So as he scaled back to need as much of the facility we were scaling up. Needed more. JImmy Lea: I love it. So was, was pop's wrenching at 62 years old? Is he wrenching as well or did he have an advisor and a, a tech? David Shaefer: No, so my dad is, uh, is. He, he got up to the point, uh, at one point in time I think he had, he had three techs and then he was kind of in that, uh, advisor position, if you will. Um, I think he primarily liked, you know, he, he didn't like having to manage people, you know, he kind of liked doing his own thing. He's, he is very, very good at what he does, found his niche, um, and, you know, made it, made it to what he wanted to be. I think when it, when it got to several employees, he didn't really. Enjoy the, the management side of, of dealing with all the, the people, you know, so, uh, or, or dealing with the employees and all the stuff that comes with that. So, um, he was usually happy with like one, one other employee kind of thing. So, um, luckily COVID kind of took them outta place. They moved, they went somewhere else. Um, and, and that kind of gave him the ability to, to scale down and prepare for retirement. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Very cool. So, uh, just because you own a business doesn't mean you're a good leader. I've said this a few different times. What do you think has influenced not, what do you think, what has influenced your leadership style in running your shop? David Shaefer: So, I would say Marine Corps was, you know, one of the most blessed things that I got out that was leadership and, uh. I, I saw very good leaders and I saw very poor leaders. And I, especially in my, in my early years and then I experienced a lot of poor leaders and it, and it helped me reflect, 'cause it's so leadership heavy, especially more than any other branch. It's very, uh. Very heavy on leadership, even at very low, uh, low rank level. Um, so I, I learned a lot of things there. Um, and I progressed pretty fast in that, and a lot of it was my leadership style, I guess, um, would, was a big part of it. And I learned that. You know, leading, being in a, in a position of, you know, a higher position or a higher rank, or a, or a, you know, higher level boss, whatever it is, right? That doesn't mean that you get any kind of, uh, respect for that. Like there's, there's a difference between respecting a physician and respecting a person, right? Um, so you know you're gonna have a better time getting people to. To assist you to go with you to complete or fulfill your visions or your dreams or, or the, the task or the mission, whatever it is. If your team respects you and wants to work with you or for you, right, and you can't hide behind a, a position or rank. In order to do that, they have to respect you as a person too. And that a lot of that has to do with being somebody that they want to emulate, somebody that they want to be like. Um, and I think you know where it goes wrong a lot is like, Hey, I'm the boss. I want you to do this. That doesn't work. You know? Hey. We need to accomplish this. Hey, understanding why is, is very important too. I think. Um, people wanna know why we're doing this or, or what is the goal. You know, you don't wanna just float into the abyss of, we're doing this for why, and where are we going and what are we doing? You know, they, they, they need a more solid foundation led by somebody that they, that they respect. JImmy Lea: Yeah. My father has always said, everybody's a good example. You're either a good example of what you should do. Or you're a good example of what you shouldn't do. And with a lot of those bad leaders, you, you learned, okay, I don't wanna do that. I don't want to do that, I don't want to do that. I know the right way to do it, uh, to be a good leader and, and sharing the why. Oh man, that, that helps with the vision, that helps with the, the enthusiasm, that helps with the motivation of everybody on the team. We're all going in the same direction. David Shaefer: Absolutely. JImmy Lea: Oh, that's fabulous. So what, what's the footprint of the current shop? You added on the two bays, which I see behind you, you got a lift and it looks like a flat. David Shaefer: Yep. So, um, a, a very original facility, when my dad first bought this property, uh, in 2014, it was, it was three bays. I, I call 'em XL bays. So each, each bay is, is roughly 20 foot wide by 44 or 50 foot deep. So a lot of room in between stuff. We're not, whoa, we're not post to post, you know? So, um, JImmy Lea: it's on this double. David Shaefer: Yeah. Yeah, it was, uh, so it was originally three in 2017, he added on two more bays, and then we added on these two, and we went a little bit deeper here. So we're, we're seven bays in total on, on this building, um, alignment rack, uh, five lifts. Alignment rack, five lifts, and then this, this bay next to me is our Washington Detail Bay. Um, so, and any truck that we work on in some form or fashion, it gets detailed before it goes back to the customer to complete the experience. So, um, that was a big, a big thing for us is having the efficiency of having a true dedicated Wash Washington Detail Bay. Um, so that's, that's a footprint here. We're roughly 7,500 square foot, uh, in this building. And then we. Our good majority of the way through completion of, of a new building that's about 3,200 square foot, uh, on the front of the property, three really big bays. So it's 60 by, uh, sorry, 50 50 deep by 64 wide. So 50 foot deep. We can power two pickup trucks back to back and let 'em, you know, you can store 'em pretty easily there. So, um. That building, we'll move our alignment rack into that. Free up another bay here. Um, alignments, you know, two buildings, you don't really wanna have two buildings. It makes tooling equipment. You know, it makes stuff weird there. Alignments you gotta pull out, pull back in. Anyways, so we're gonna put the alignment over there, storage and then we're actually building a gym in the first part of it, so, JImmy Lea: oh, nice. David Shaefer: Excited to do that. But we've done a lot of remodeling this year on, on the exterior of the facility, the office space, and then new construction. So. JImmy Lea: Nice. Nice. And so, and you, you're, are you, so you're building the new building, are you also in the middle of remodeling the current building too? David Shaefer: Yeah, so slightly, you know, a lot of, you know, the, the back four bays are, are brand new. Um, and, but the, the exterior was kind of dated, you know, uh, it was like a light blue steel on the bottom and. The back part is brand new, and then the front part that everybody walks into is like, kind of faded, you know, from 1998. Right. Um, so when we built the new building, we said, Hey, this is a good chance to, to refresh. So we did like a, like a slate rock on the Wayne's coat on the bottom part of the building. And then we had. All of the Wayne's coat on the, the main shop taken off and, and upgraded to that, um, put in a better front entryway to the shop. And then, um, our most proud possession, we put in an 80 foot tall flagpole, uh, at the front entry. So JImmy Lea: 80 foot. So when as an as a boy scout, I earned the rank of eagle and I was 13. My Eagle project was to put up a flagpole in front of the church. David Shaefer: Oh, very cool. JImmy Lea: I had to get wet signatures. I had to work with architects, I had to work with engineers. They had to know the specs of the flagpole. Yeah. We were thinking grab an old, uh, street light that had been run into, cut off the bottom, plant it in the ground, and you're good to go. Oh, nay, nay. It's quite the process to get an approval. To put a flagpole up in front of any structure. David Shaefer: Yeah. JImmy Lea: And an 80 foot the flag you can fly on that is massive. David Shaefer: Oh yeah. Yeah. JImmy Lea: That is cool. Did it take like an act of Congress to get your approval for an 80 foot flag pole? David Shaefer: No. So like, we're actually positioned in a pretty good area. Okay. We're pretty relaxed, uh, pretty relaxed township. There's no regulations on that. Um, and you know, they saw what we've done over the past couple years, improving, uh, cleaning up. And, you know, with the remodel of the building, we said, Hey, we want to do this. We want. You know, any, everybody knows where we are, whether they do business or not. That's, you know, and there's actually, JImmy Lea: you, you, you have become a landmark. You, you're a mountaintop. David Shaefer: Yep. We are the, the guys with the big flag. You know, so, um, that's, that was part of it too, is we knew we wanted to do a flagpole, but we said, Hey, let's do the biggest one we can. 'cause we want to, we want to be known. That, that that's us, you know? So, JImmy Lea: yeah. David Shaefer: Good for you. Um, but it, it was pretty easy. It, it, uh, we didn't get a whole lot of flag for it. Everybody was supportive of it, so, JImmy Lea: oh, yeah. It was cool. That, that is awesome. In, uh, St. George, Utah, there was an RV park that put up a very, very large flagpole, and they didn't get the city permits, and the city came in and said, Hey, you're gonna have to take this down. Oh, you're anti-American and you're anti, no, no, no, no. This is permits if this thing falls down, because you guys didn't put it up right. There's gonna be some hecka lawsuits. So it's not about patriotism. This is about safety. David Shaefer: Right? Yeah. JImmy Lea: But they, they, uh, they, they David Shaefer: jump camping world. 130 footer, I think is what it was. JImmy Lea: What, what's, David Shaefer: I think, I think it was 130 foot, that one. Camping World, I believe is the one that you're talking of. Yeah. It's huge. JImmy Lea: It is. It's massive. And you see it from the freeway. Yeah. And they've got a massive humongous flag on there. And when the winds blowing, oh baby, that's Oh, yeah. Loud. It's, it whips wh David Shaefer: Oh yeah. It cracks. JImmy Lea: Oh yeah, it cracks. Yeah. Well man, that's awesome. Congrats on on living in an area that's gorgeous. You're, uh, cold front up there in Michigan. It must be gorgeous up there all the time. David Shaefer: Absolutely, absolutely. JImmy Lea: Get some lake effect. Uh, are you guys buried in snow right now or is it pretty David Shaefer: Uh, it's, it's been weird, weird, uh, winter this year. It, it comes heavy and then it was raining the beginning of the week and, and JImmy Lea: it's all gone. David Shaefer: Coming back again. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's snowing again today. So it doesn't know what to do. JImmy Lea: No, that's wild. Well, congrats on the, the expansions, the growth. David Shaefer: Thank you. JImmy Lea: Uh, it just sounds like you're doing extraordinary things up there in Michigan. Congrats. This is super awesome. So what, what is the future for you, David? What is your three to five year plan look like? David Shaefer: So three to five year, um, I would say right now, um, you know, all that stuff sounds good and cool, um, and sounds exciting, but obviously, you know, we're young in business and you gotta pay those bills too, right? So, um, I'm not saying we're sitting over here and don't know what to do with our money, you know? Yeah. You got JImmy Lea: rolling in it. David Shaefer: Yeah. No, we've, we've invested heavily into our. Our foundation system. So, um, we wanted to make sure that, you know, we do high-end white glove repair. Um, we're, you know, we consider ourselves top tier. We do typically more involved repairs. Um, so we're, we, we we're known for our quality of work and we needed to make sure that our facility, uh. Reflects the quality of work that we do, right? JImmy Lea: Yeah. David Shaefer: Um, we have to make sure that our facility is on, on, on par with our brand that we've built. So, um, you know, these, these last couple years have been, Hey, we have things in motion, we have things, things working, but let's invest in the foundation. Let's make sure our facility is ready for growth, our processes are ready for growth. Um, make sure that, you know, we. When you come into the shop, it is what you anticipate coming into, uh, especially when you're searching those, those higher end clients, uh, or the people that do care about value over price, you know? So, um, you know, it's been, it's been a lot about building the foundation to, to grow from there. So, you know, we've gotten to where we're pretty comfortable there. And then this year is, is about building up our staffing a little bit heavier. Um. So with that being said, three to five year plan is, you know, our, our foundation is set with, with facility up staff. Um, and, you know, now work on, on getting our car count up now, work on getting our sales up, um, and judging by the base space and, and kind of projecting, um, you know, our growth over the last couple years. I anticipate, and I hope that within three years we start feeling constraints of size and we have to start thinking about moving facility or doing something. We're kind of tapped out on building on here. So my hope is that we continue our growth on the same trajectory and we have to, we start feeling, uh, we start feeling the pains of. Of getting some of the inefficiencies back by not having enough room. That's my goal. Um, so the five-year goal is, is to be searching, actively searching or, or in a new, bigger facility Is, is what I'm, what I'm shooting for. Um, JImmy Lea: oh, congrats man. David Shaefer: So as far as that's, that's kind of that side as far as, you know, uh. Business type things. Obviously grow our repair facility, you know, grow, uh, grow our business. But, um, we wanna work into getting into at least some light manufacturing or offering some products of our own, uh, to be able to expand our reach. You know, we are, we are limited by geographic location, so we're a peninsula. We're on a peninsula and a peninsula, um, limited by a lot of water. Michigan is very. Interesting because you have wearing the rust belt, so vehicles don't last as long. Uh, so you investing into that vehicle. It, it is hard sometimes because they're not worth it after so long. So, um, the, just some geographical things we, we do have to keep that in mind of what is our true potential on, on overall growth, you know, over 10 years, over 20 years, is that gonna support continual growth? Um, so we're looking at what can we do to expand our region, um, and is, is having part sales of our own or getting onto e-commerce. You know, can that kind of help bridge some of that gap? So that's something that, that we're starting to, starting to get a little bit more involved in over this year. JImmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's, that's a whole lot of fun. So, are you gonna get a CNC machine? You're gonna start fabbing your own brackets, your own braces, your own parts and pieces. What, what does this look like? David Shaefer: So right now we've, we've, we've, it's been an idea for of ours that that's something that we wanted to get into. Obviously when you're still pretty fresh in, in, in business, you gotta fix, you gotta fix trucks and get 'em out the door, you know? Yeah. So, focusing on all this other stuff, uh, the, the core of the business is, you know, uh, be a solution for the customer and, and. Fix their, fix their vehicle and get 'em back on the road. So, um, can't be overly distracted, but we gotta, we gotta start making time and, and plans, right? So, um, right now my, my, my brother and his in-laws, they actually own a own a machine shop, uh, outta state. And so we have a little bit of an in, I guess you could say, um. With being able to get some products manufactured without having to take on the full investment of, you know, machinery. Buying all the machinery. Right. Oh, yeah. On, on a, on a starting basis, you know? So, um, at least we have somebody that we can. Refer to get some guidance from, talk things over with. Yeah. Um, and figure out what products we can bring to market, what makes the most sense, um, and then kind of grow it from there. So we actually have had some more in depth conversations about what that looks like over the last week. So. JImmy Lea: Bro. That sounds amazing. That sounds awesome. I'm, I'm so excited for you, for you, I David Shaefer: put it out there, so now I gotta, I gotta make it happen. JImmy Lea: Well, and, and that you've got an in, you can say to 'em, Hey, look, okay, send me six of this product and six of this product. This one's super popular. I want a couple dozen of these. Right. Uh, you know what? I only need two or three of these. You, you are, you're able to really hone in on and not, and now all you have is inventory. You don't have the machinery to do it. So, uh, yeah. Super. Awesome. Congrats. Where do you see the, the future of the industry going as a whole, whether it's auto repair or diesel repair? Diesel is in your back pocket. Where do you see the industry going as a whole? David Shaefer: So. Obviously I'm still pretty young in this, um, but I did, I did get to see, you know, my, my, my dad grow up through, you know, grow up through this. So, uh, I would like to say I have a little bit of depth of understanding at least. Um, but one thing that I, that really sticks out to me that I've noticed. Is as these vehicles and, and trucks are kind of dumb compared to some of these newer cars, right? Uh, they, they seem to lag a little bit farther behind. But what I see is there's, there's more electronics, there's more, uh, circuitry, there's more modules, there's more complex systems. Uh, you know, especially we, we dive into the fuel systems of a diesel truck. I mean, it's emission systems. It's, it's, it's a lot and it's. It's truly not mechanics, it's technicians. It is, it is a profession that requires, you know, a a a wealth of knowledge and experience and, uh, eagerness to learn and to advance. And, uh, we're, we're getting to the point where things as simple as a break job with the electronics that are in them now. Aren't what Jimmy Joe is gonna be doing in his driveway anymore. So as the industry gets more complex and more advanced, I feel like it's, it's at a turning point where a lot of the, the old guys that didn't want to get on board with electronics, a lot of, they didn't want to get outta carburetors and they, and, and. Name a car with a carburetor. Not very much. That's, you know, so, you know, and then they didn't want to get on with electronics and modules and, and those people phase out over time. And it, and it, and if you are willing to advance, you are willing to invest into the future. Uh, it gives you a lot of opportunity for market share. So I think you add on. The, the electronics and the need for information, knowledge, equipment, testing tools, um, it's, it's also not only pushing out a lot of the repairs from the, the shops that don't want to advance, but also the do it yourselfers. So I think, like I have this feeling that we're, we're really on a cusp of that next generation of people that didn't want to evolve fizzling out. And also the, the do it yourself. We're in a heavy do it yourselfer industry. The, the diesel world is, you know, heavy with those people that are blue collar, that have a, have a know-how and willingness to do it, whether they're good at it or not in some cases. Right. Um. But I kind of see that. So if you get on board and you do invest into training and, and learning and, uh, the technology and the equipment, I think we're at a point where now we're not mechanics grease monkeys. We're not the the shop down the road. We're a true, serious profession that. And Bill what we need to, to be a profitable business, you know? Um, I think the people that really get on board and, and, you know, a lot of the, the more automotive hospitality thing is, is taking a little bit stronger hold now I think as well. Um, so these, these $80 an hour shops are, you know. Not as much of a competition, uh, to us as, as they may have used to be. Um, and now we can justify being able to, to work in more profitability into the business model. I think. JImmy Lea: Yeah, yeah. You, you have a different way, different business model, uh, operating compared to, and, and that's the beauty of it too. You know what it costs for you. You know what you want to be able to provide for your family, for your technicians, for your service advisors. You want, you know, what kind of life your business can provide to them and what it costs to provide that, and you have to charge accordingly, right? JImmy Lea: Those shops that are operating sub one hundreds. On their labor hours, they, they don't know it, but they're one sneeze away from bankruptcy. They're one sneeze away from closing the front doors. One catastrophe happens and they're out of business. David Shaefer: Right. And unfortunately, the, the, you know, the consumers at that point, not as much the clients, but the consumers at that point are typically not as, not as easy to deal with as well. So I think that's something to consider too. JImmy Lea: Yeah. So, uh, uh, learning, learning is a constant. We are constantly learning leaders or readers. You're probably reading quite a few books, but into training. Where do you go for training for the diesel, and do you take your technicians with you, or what do you do? David Shaefer: So, again, pretty young into it. So we're, we're trying to. You know, we're trying to get as involved in that stuff as we can, um, and grow into where we're doing it more consistently. Um, so I'd say. Three years ago or so, the first thing that we started with was, uh, if you've ever heard of Thoroughbred Diesel, they're a wholesale distributor. Um, so obviously you guys are, know them well. You, you deal with a lot JImmy Lea: of people. David Shaefer: We do, right? So, JImmy Lea: diesel's been there twice and, and yep. Presented, uh, just phenomenal, well, well received. David Shaefer: Absolutely JImmy Lea: diesel industry. Yeah. David Shaefer: Yep. So, survivor, thrive, uh, Chris here at, at Thoroughbred is, is is the big driver for that. But the whole team in general, I can't say enough good things about 'em. But, um, that was our first real, like, training event, you know? And that was like a year in and we're like, oh, wow, this is. This is eyeopening, like holy cow. Because we were stuck in that we gotta be cheaper than somebody. 'cause we're just a couple young kids, you know? And, well, I can't charge more than a map, you know, how do I do that? They can look online, you know, and then. That, you know, it was, it was that price look instead of how do I add the value look, you know, so we dove extremely deep into how do I provide value over price from there. Um, and then that turned into vision. Um, so, you know, vision and, and, and Survivor Thrive were two big ones. And then what's, you know. Now plans for A STA or you know, local, you know, trying to expand our networking as well. There's, there's a lot of resources, um, just through local shops coming together, uh, to, to put on training, you know, um, and, and kind of bring everybody together for that instead of having to go to a, a convention or something like that. So, um, we really try to do anything that we. We can, you know, that we can justify or afford or time permit permits and, um, I want to get on a more consistent routine with it as well. So, you know, there's with, with the mixture of, of the events, you know, getting at least a couple people, you know, every quarter or so out to some of the bigger things. Um, but then continual, just small, you know. Meetings or trainings in between. But, uh, you know, we are, we're a smaller staff. We have five guys. So, um, it's, it's not terrible to, to get us all to a training, you know, or Yeah. But now we're, you know, we're growing into that size. We're, you know, maybe now we, we keep the shop. At least open, which, which kind of helps too. And, and bring a couple people and, and kind of mix that in. So JImmy Lea: there is a show you might wanna check out. There's two shows, uh, that I'm gonna tell you about. One is HDAW and it is this weekend in Grapevine, Texas. So imagine the scale of Vision, vision High Tech Expo. You've been there, right? David Shaefer: Yeah. Yep. JImmy Lea: Imagine that level, that quantity. And it is diesel only. Oh, David Shaefer: and that's what what's crazy is getting into it. You don't even, it's like, where, where do I even find these things? You know? It's exactly, it's interesting until you get really involved. JImmy Lea: So that's a January one. It's in d in, uh, a Grapevine, Texas. The second one for you to check out is Auto Value. They do a, a show in February in Grand Rapids. David Shaefer: So they just canceled that this year. JImmy Lea: Oh, no. David Shaefer: Yeah. Yep. It's 'cause I, we went to that the last two years. Yeah. And we're like, perfect. There's not much going on during the winter. JImmy Lea: And yeah, David Shaefer: we went to that and we're like, perfect. Well, this'll be a perfect little small one day deal. And then a couple months ago they, they announced that they're not gonna do it JImmy Lea: ever again, or just this year. David Shaefer: I, I'm not a hundred percent sure on that. I, it sounded like it was one of those things where. They're gonna do away with that, but they're gonna try to invest more into smaller, probably online or, or, you know, smaller trainings type sessions. JImmy Lea: It, it, it, David Shaefer: I think there's something worth going to something. JImmy Lea: There is, there absolutely is. The hands-on is, is paramount, especially in our highly tactile industry. You've got to have that, um, hands-on experience. To do it online is great and you get the value, you get the, the theory of it, but you don't get that tactile. I get to touch and feel and work and torque. Uh, it's, it's totally different. Um, or the David Shaefer: networking. JImmy Lea: Oh, networking's huge. Yeah. Uh, a STA if you do that one in North Carolina. That would be a good one. There's a lot of, uh, diesel dudes that are showing up for the, that one. David Shaefer: Yeah. Yep. JImmy Lea: Cool. Very cool. Well, that's awesome. Congrats man. Alright, so if, if you were to give yourself some advice, and this is you, you are now at a level that you have lots of water under the bridge, you've learned a lot. Yes. You know that there's still a lot for more for you to learn. You're learning a lot. If you were to give yourself advice today because you're starting your shop today, what advice would you give yourself starting your shop today? David Shaefer: I would say. Servicing the customer and providing value is number one, 'cause that that is what it's all about, right? So, um, sometimes you gotta do what's right and it, it's way easier to swallow the pill and, and eat it rather than try to try to lie to the customer. Like, there's, there's nothing worse that you can do, you know? So it is just being honest and, hey man, you're gonna get through. Whatever it is. So if you provide value and you have good intentions and you wanna service that client to the best of your abilities, even if something unforeseen happens, uh, it'll all work itself out. As long as you tell, you know, as long as you go through, uh, Hey, I'm gonna build this off a trust and I'm going to, uh, um, I'm not gonna be embarrassed about telling my side of the story of anything, you know? Um, but number one is obviously providing that value. Um. Focusing on, on training and then I think, you know, get yourself to the position where you can afford to, to have a coach or to be involved in some type of coaching. It sounds like a lot of money, but. You're missing out on a lot of money because you, you're buying experience, you're buying decades of experience, you know, and, uh, yeah, you see that, that bill come out every month or so. Um, but you gotta take a step back and look where your numbers go to over the course of that year. And, uh, there couldn't be anything better that I've decided to do, you know? JImmy Lea: Nice, nice. That's phenomenal. Who are you coaching with right now? David Shaefer: So, I coach with elite. JImmy Lea: Nice. Congrats. Who's your coach with? Elite, David Shaefer: Doug Callahan. JImmy Lea: Nice. I don't know, Doug, that that's awesome. David Shaefer: Great. JImmy Lea: Yeah, that is good. That is good. Uh, and that's what we're about here at the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence is helping you to build a better business, and the result is a better life, a better life for you, your, your employees, your technicians. Not only them, but also their significant others and their children. It's a better life for everybody. Even your customers, your clients have a better life because you've built a better business, better business, better life, better industry, David Shaefer: absolutely. JImmy Lea: That is exactly what we're all about. And helping you to make sure that you're, you are getting that return. David Shaefer: Right. ' JImmy Lea: cause if you, you don't know what you don't know. David Shaefer: Absolutely. JImmy Lea: And a coach is there to help you learn those things. You don't know. So you stay on that right path. David Shaefer: Absolutely. JImmy Lea: Straight and true. Oh, David Shaefer: that's awesome. Don't be afraid to, to be friends with other auto shop owners. You know, there's plenty of work out there, there's plenty of work out there. Um, you know, if you can help each other out, it all comes full circle. And a lot of the times it's, you know, realizing that, you know, there's. There's better ways to lift up the whole industry and it works out better for everybody, you know, so. Oh JImmy Lea: yeah, absolutely. David Shaefer: Um, I think getting to know other, other shop owners, start out with ones that aren't in your state, and then get more comfortable and get to the ones local with you, if that's what it takes. But JImmy Lea: if that's what it takes, David Shaefer: having, having friendships in, in the industry is, is a humongous. JImmy Lea: It is, it is. 'cause you may have tools they need, they may have tools you need in a moment's pinch. You may have cars that need service that you just can't get to and they've got availability. Mm-hmm. Friends in the industry, lock arms, lock arms and grow together. It's, it's, it's it, it makes for a brighter future and it's better when we all go together than if we try and make this journey individually. David Shaefer: Absolutely. JImmy Lea: David, thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate your time. Appreciate your insight. Thank you for your service. Thank you for helping keep our country free. You're awesome, bro. Thank you so much. David Shaefer: Appreciate you having me on. Thank you for the time and uh, you guys set the institute, keep doing what you're doing 'cause it, it's makes bay huge impact on the industry for sure. So we appreciate everything from you too. JImmy Lea: Awesome. Thank you brother. All David Shaefer: right. Take care.

201 - From Technician to Shop Owner: Building Success Through Training and Integrity April 15, 2026 - 00:58:22 Show Summary: Roberto Ibarra shares his journey from studying automotive technology in Mexico to building a successful repair shop in California. He explains how continuous education and a passion for electrical diagnostics shaped his career. Roberto discusses starting a business during the 2008 recession and why mindset played a critical role in his success. He highlights the importance of honesty, communication, and clarity in customer service. The conversation also dives into technician development and why shop owners must invest in training. Roberto explains his work training technicians and helping them grow in the industry. He closes with advice for future shop owners to learn the business before jumping in.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Roberto Ibarra, Aztek Auto Repair   Show Highlights: [00:04:45] – Roberto moves to the US to continue training and grow his skills [00:06:30] – Discovering a passion for electrical diagnostics changes his career path [00:10:45] – Starting a shop during the 2008 recession with a strong mindset [00:13:30] – Early business mistakes highlight the importance of learning operations [00:18:45] – Customers value honesty and doing the right thing every time [00:25:30] – Poor communication is the biggest failure point in most shops [00:34:30] – Shop owners must invest in technicians to grow the industry [00:39:15] – Training programs help technicians advance and build careers [00:43:30] – Future shop owners should learn inside a shop before starting [00:50:15] – Continuous learning is the key to long term success In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello friends, Jimmy Lea here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. And my guest joining me today is Roberto. I Oh, I was Roberto Ibarra: Ibar. Yes. Ibarra Jimmy Lea: Abria, Roberto Abria. He is from Aztec Auto Repair up in the Bay Area near Fremont. Is that right? Roberto Ibarra: That's why in the Heart Fremont is. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm pretty sure I've driven past your shop once or twice in the last decade and a half that we've been, that I've been in the automotive industry. I'm sure that I've driven past your shop, Roberto, Roberto Ibarra: most likely. Yeah. We have a lot of shops around the area right here. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. That is awesome. Roberto I need to tell you a story about my brother, and his name is Robert. And my grandmother came to visit once upon a time, I think Robert was maybe 2, 3, 4, 5, maybe, somewhere in that area. And she says and what's your name? And he says, oh and no. She says and your name is Robert. Can I call you Robbie? Rob and he says, no, my name is Roberto. That's like the one and only time he had ever done that. And we just died laughing because where did he hear this? How did he know his name was Roberto? Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. He liked the, oh, you know the, I have another story with that name. When I came to F Freemont 1996 person was on the shop. And then he say on your uniform, he should say, 'cause I work with my uncle on that time, he should say, Bob, 'cause my name is Roberto. And he say, you should put Bob on your uniform. And I told him, I look at him and I tell him, no, that's a dog's name. He said no. That's my name. He say, that's my name is Robert. He say and we call Bab on us. We, we call Babs the robbers. We call Bobs. I tell no on Mexico we call him Bobby. Bobby. Bobby. The dogs. Bobby. Bobby. Bobby or Bobby. Oh, he say, no, not my David say they say okay. Maybe later. Jimmy Lea: So did you get Roberto on your uniform? Roberto Ibarra: Yes. Yeah. Are you always use Roberto on my uniform? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that, that's awesome. There's a sense of pride with a name, isn't there? Roberto Ibarra: Yeah, my grandpa. My grandpa, that's, that was his name. And that's why, yeah, Roberto, is, this is gonna be dead. Jimmy Lea: Okay. So your grandfather's name is Roberto. Is your father's name Roberto? Roberto Ibarra: No, that's my mom's, that's my mom's side. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And but your uncle's name is Roberto. Roberto Ibarra: No, I don't have the, no more Roberto's in the family. Only my son. My son is Roberto. My, my oldest is Roberto. Jimmy Lea: Oh, see, okay. So we, we are very aligned. I didn't know this Roberto. I didn't know this about you. My grandfather's name is James Arthur. My dad is James Bruce. I'm James Christian. My son is James Derek. So we have an A, B, C, D. Lineage. He's in charge of E so the pressure's off. I'm good. I got, I fulfilled my duty. Roberto Ibarra: No. Yeah, it is complicated. 'cause I have a customer, his name was Manuel. His dad was Manuel and his grandpa was Manuel. And he say, I don't want no more Manuel on my family. So her, Ernest, his son, he never named Manuel his son. He said, no, I don't, I wanna cut it here. He said, Jimmy Lea: oh, that's funny. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. Sometimes people don't wanna carry the legacy, the or the name basically. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And you're right, it does get very confusing. And I tell you, within my own family there's a lot of things that my dad has on his credit that shows up on my credit, and we constantly have to just clean things up. But, and I think that's a good practice no matter what your name is. Chances are you've got some things on your credit that you probably ought to pay attention to and make sure that somebody's not abusing you and using your information. But Robert you talked about moving to America in 96. Roberto Ibarra: That's correct. Jimmy Lea: How, why, what happened? How did you what's the story there? Roberto Ibarra: I graduate as a technician on 19 92, 93. Mexico. I went to school as a, I went to a college for technician, and then when I graduate, I continue my education, because I say I need, this is not enough. Three years was not enough. So I continue going to some trainings, and then I found out that it was not enough. I say I have to continue education. Where's the technology is on north. So I called couple colleges over here in the Bay Area to sign up for getting some more training. And I got, I came to Fremont because there was a college on that time over here. I was, I forgot the name of that college. What was it? Biotech, I think. Biotech. So I came to continue my education. I wanted to get certified a, SC and all that. So I wanted to grow on the industry. Then I ended up getting some training over here on Concord area here on the criminal area. And I start working at the same time, and then I start going to school or to learn the language. So in less than two years, I was already speaking English, pretty much. And then I continued my education. So since that time I thought I wa I was, I wanna get some more education and then that's it. Here I am after almost three years, still going to trainings and myself teaching some other guys after. The technology is never, is not stopping right there. So it is, but I like it. I love it. I love the change. I love the dry. I'm coming from the carburetors area to the computers area, so I'm. I'm not afraid of touching a carburetor, and I'm not afraid of touching a computer because, I have both words on, I have, I, I see both words, 'cause I leave it I leave both of them. Jimmy Lea: Yes. And I love where you're talking, Roberto. You talk about you were in university for three years. Did you learn at all? No. You discovered that the more you learn, the less you know. Then you come to the United States, you are in training for another three years, six years total. Six years now that you're in training. And the more you learn, the less you know. Roberto Ibarra: Oh yeah. It is. It's, it is just when you start, like going to school and then one. One specifically area. And then you see, oh, there's another area, A, B, S Oh, now we have communication computers. You have short sequence. Now you have new technology and there's ac you have a now you have, it is endless. It's endless. There's a lot of things to learn that, it is, you cannot, you can say you, you can say, I have experience, but you cannot say, I know everything. That's not true. Jimmy Lea: So at what point did you realize in your life, at what point did you realize, hey, you know what, this is the industry for me. This is where I wanna be. I enjoy automotive industry. Roberto Ibarra: When I start going, when I started looking at the electricity electric side of the industry 'cause when I was a kid. One of my uncles used to fix televisions, TVs. Yes. And I helped him to open the cases and check the boards, check the resistance, the capacitors, the valves the to do measurements and using the multier and all that. On the, Jimmy Lea: is this back when you were checking TVs and they had fuses inside of them? Roberto Ibarra: Yep. And then we used to check, do some, create some tool to get some, some shocks on ourselves and regulate it, and then so I start, my curiosity start about the electricity on that time. Yeah. So I wanted work on electricity when I was older, when I, Jimmy Lea: oh yeah. Roberto Ibarra: When I start working as a going school, as a mechanic. And then later on I started looking at the sensors and I started facing the signals, battery, 12 walls and all that. I started falling in love on the industry, and then when the computer start coming out, the low voltage, the high voltage, the signals, inputs, outputs, and all that. And then I just felt oh yeah, this is what this is my work. I spent hours and hours working on a circuit with how the circuit operates, doing testings and all that, and using my classroom. Now all I have is. Test equipment and I have a big, oh my Jimmy Lea: gosh, Roberto Ibarra: I have a big screens to, to project whatever I'm doing. I have a GoPro cameras, like five of them projecting on my projectors to see. What's happening, when I do a test and all that. So it is, I just have fun working on the, on this industry, Jimmy Lea: Roberto. That is amazing. And isn't it amazing to see how even just the television industry has progressed from fuses and resistors to where today we have flat screen? Those old TVs were so heavy. They were so big. They were so heavy. And now TVs, they're humongous. They fit on the wall and they're three inches wide. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. And now you, it is impossible to open one of these TVs and fix them. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, Roberto Ibarra: because yeah, on that time, that was the thing. You, there's a lot of parts that you can buy now. It is that is, it is not. Jimmy Lea: No they've made it as a discard item. You can now just throw it away and buy another one. It's less expensive to just buy another one than it is to fix it, unfortunately. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. That's why my uncle is not fixing TVs anymore. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no. There, there's no business for, and I'm, Roberto Ibarra: I don't think they, this industry is gonna end, but we work on cars. Jimmy Lea: So did you go straight from high school right into university to the automotive industry? Roberto Ibarra: Yes. I went to the college, yeah for that. For being a technician? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Nice. And when did you start Aztec Auto Repair. And what did you do before Aztec Auto Repair? Roberto Ibarra: So I start as the developer 2008 as a, when the, it was a big recession on that time. Jimmy Lea: Oh dude, that is, that was the worst time to start a business. Roberto Ibarra: That was the, it was, yeah, it was Jimmy Lea: ing. That had to be the biggest challenge. 'cause I remember that real estate bubble burst and you are starting a business. Tell me more about that. Roberto Ibarra: My mindset was I'm gonna start a business now. If I make it this couple years on the bad time, I'm gonna make it after that because it's gonna be better. So that was my mindset and I just. Started, with no, with a thousand dollar loan, and then a couple months later I got a $10,000 loan and then I continue buying stuff, until I now you never end, it's never ending buying equipment. But I invest in initial it was, it just it was just a mind mindset. Okay, I'm gonna, if I do it now, that means it's gonna be okay. After that. And Yeah, it worked. It worked. Yeah, because I got I got on the, we can say on when the time was. A lot of shops closing on my area dealers, small dealers. So a lot of business were closing at that time. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: But I saw an opportunity on. Jimmy Lea: And if you're able to operate on a shoestring, here you are starting at the bottom. You got nowhere to go but up. So yeah, you had a great projectory there. Pretty Roberto Ibarra: much. Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much. That was the, but it was the idea and yeah, it is just mindset. Yeah. But the Jimmy Lea: business, I totally agree, Roberto Ibarra: business wise, yeah. It was a bad time to start a business but but yeah, it is. I saw if not now, when. And it just happened. But before, so what Jimmy Lea: were you doing right before, Roberto Ibarra: before that I used I was a partner with a dealership selling used cars, and I was Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Roberto Ibarra: And I was, I'm very Jimmy Lea: familiar with that industry. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. And I was in charge of the shop, so I have, three or four, five technicians working on a service area. Okay. And I was managing the shop for that service area. I didn't like the sales side of the business. I don't like to to sell cars that, that's not Jimmy Lea: not skillset. It's a different skillset. Roberto Ibarra: Correct. Yeah. So it was not my team, but I was on the service area, so I was okay, because I was doing service and then working on my own things at the same time, managing a crew, sometimes two guys, sometimes three, sometimes sport. And, I, I was. Learning how to run a shop. Basically. On that time I was practicing, but I started my first shop on back in 2000 back in 2000, I started the first shop here on Fremont. A guy opened a shop and he had no idea how to work on gas. He only opened a shop because he just wanted to be a, a mechanic. And then a couple months later he say no, this is not my team. And he say, you want the shop? Back in 2000. Imagine I was only here four years and yeah. Say I wanna get rid of this shop 'cause I'm not, this is not my thing. And he offered it to me. Think he about $10,000 investment. Oh my God. And I said, okay, you make you say I never thought about running that shop on that time. I say, okay, you, you accept payments? And he say, yes, I accept payments. Yeah, gimme payments. And I, and he say, I have some cars already in there. You can continue the repairs and then you can just, go from there. I have no idea how to run a business. And still, I'm learning still, but I imagine so I say why not? And I just I continue the shop. For some for one year. And I create, some customers and all that. I know i new people and all that. And then another opportunity came along. A guy said, you know what? Why don't we invest in a gas station? You run the shop and I run a gas station after one year of the shop and say, okay. And then I, the shop, I transferred somebody, a neighbor say, okay, let's go on the gas station. Maybe it makes more sense. But it was some kind of trap because now it, I, my, the deal was so bad that I didn't have experience how to read deals and all that, contracts. Jimmy Lea: Contracts, yeah. Roberto Ibarra: I ended up, see my lady say, you know what, I think this is not what I wanted to be on the gas station as a it was not, it was. So I say, you know what? I quit and I moved back to working on the dealership. For about seven years I worked on the dealership as a partner and that's when I went to some training for business on that time, like preparing myself. So this is what I did to start my shop that I have now. In 2008, December thousand eight, I wrote a letter and the letter I sent the letter to the secretary of State of this California. To open a corporation an LLCI, I'm, no I don't have the shop yet but I sent the letter December 31st to create a company on the state of California, and I don't know what kind of business, I'm gonna start on 2009, but I wanted to have already the name, they register the name and all that on the state. So I send the letter, I received the confirmation and the approval. February nine or 2009. Yeah. And on right on May. When the guy say the owner of the dealer, she say, you know what I'm gonna close the business, the shop, I'm gonna close the shop and all that. And I, that's when I took over the shop. I say, okay, I'm gonna take over the shop. Lemme talk to the landlord. And he say, yeah, just continue and then just pay the rent and all that. And the I have already the name and all that register on the stage, so I just. Went to get the premise and all that, and I continue the shop. But that's how I got into this shop that I have right now, 2000 and nine May 3rd I Jimmy Lea: started. Oh my word. That's Roberto Ibarra: beautiful. And this is something that I always remember. I start, I came to Fremont 1996. On June the second. June the second, 1996. I came to Fremont and, I started working with my ankle shop. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Roberto Ibarra: June the second, 2009. I got the C the city permit as the name that I have right now. Aztec, I repair Aztec and Enterprise. I got the certificate from the City of Freeman, June the second, 2009. How many years later? 14 or something like that. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. No. Public math is not something we do right here, right now. Yeah. Congratulations on what a story, what a path that you have been on to make it here. And lucky for you, you had some lucky strikes that you were able to get your name established. It sounds like you, you went and started down the path of learning about business and you're discovering that. There's a lot about business. You don't know, you know a lot about cars now we need to learn more about running the business from the business side. Roberto Ibarra: That's correct. Yeah, that's right. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. That's awesome. Congratulations. So to your experience today with Aztec, what do you believe customers feel is the difference when they walk into Aztec? What's the d What differentiates your shop from other shops? Roberto Ibarra: What I see 'cause sometimes I'm in the office, not very often, but like yesterday, I was there last week and sometimes I have to cover someone or they are lunch. And when I go and I ask the people, I, I say hi and I start talking and I ask them, is your first time here? Sometime? They say, yes, it's my first time, second time. And then, and a lot of times, and it is not. This is not me saying it. Okay. Because I 'cause sometimes I don't like to say things about me, but yesterday when I called someone and I told him, Hey, your truck needs this and that, and we have to do this and that, and, and then he say, you know what, yes, I approve the repair and the reason. I'm gonna tell you, he say, the reason I dropped the truck to you and I'm agreed to do whatever it needs is because I feel like you are a good person. You are an honest man, honest business. And I say really well. Yeah. That's, we, as a businessman, yeah. We have, we try to always do the right thing. And that the people are aware of that, right? Sometimes for some reason people don't see it or they don't wanna see it. But when somebody tells you that, it really fits your yeah, I have to continue doing the right thing. There's the only way to grow a business is doing the right thing. It doesn't matter what it takes. Sometimes you take some losses, but. To grow a businesses, you always have to do the right thing. And when people tell you that you, they are here for somebody. Somebody refer, and sometimes even in social media, right? Right now social media, like people see behind the scenes like, the reviews. Sometimes you have a value view, but what's the response? And it depends how you respond, right? People don't see the value view, but they see how you respond to the review. And that's, those are things that life is happens and things happen. Sometimes you not, sometimes may not be happy but you try to do the right thing all the time and get it straight. And people don't wanna, accept it or it's, that's their problem. But you wanna make sure that you can sLeap well on night, like your conscience is I did Jimmy Lea: clear Roberto Ibarra: I wanted to make a right if I made a mistake. And, but if it's not accepted, it's that people's problem is not your problem. But do not go because people sometimes gonna judge you. And we, I'm not the type of person that I, if somebody has a problem with themselves or some other situation, that's their problem. I have my own. And as far as I don't, somebody or do something wrong with anybody. That's whatever they, that's happen on the life. That's their own situation. Yeah. Yeah. But we have to peace of mind. That's the thing. And to have peace of mind, you have to do the right thing. That's the only way. You cannot have peace of mind when you are doing something wrong. As much as you wanna believe. You can't, you have to Jimmy Lea: take Roberto Ibarra: it. Jimmy Lea: You can control the things that you can control. And it sounds like you have very much discovered the fact that you can control yourself and how you respond, but you can't control other people and how they respond. It's their monkey, it's their circus. It's not your monkey. It's not your circus. So you gotta let them do what they're gonna do. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. And continue. Life. Life continues. A lot of people need your help. Like, when my students go to do the test on the state, I tell 'em, Hey, when you find a question that you don't know, you have no, no clue what the answer is. Just go to the next one, go to the next, and then later you come back to that question. You may remember something, but you cannot stay focusing on something that you cannot, that you have no idea how to resolve it on that minute, on that time. Just move on. That doesn't stop right there. The clock doesn't stop right there. You continue click. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. That's great advice. Es especially for us in the automotive industry, there's a lot of anxieties. There's a lot of dyslexia. There's a lot of a DHD. There the people it's difficult to take these tests because the tests are created such that there's one right answer and two almost right answers and a third. That's definitely not the right answer. And yeah I love that you're helping to teach these technicians how to take the test, and that really helps. That goes a long way. Helping them in their confidence too. So I have a question for you and it go, and I know you're gonna have a phenomenal answer to this. What does great customer service look like in your shop, specifically? Roberto Ibarra: Great customer service. When you are meet with the smile, with with the smile, because you have a. You have you, you living, you having a night, a good day, 'cause you happy on, on, on the place that you working, you happy with the taste, helping you, you happy with the bus, you know that always on is on your back, backing you up for everything that you do. You have the support so you smile with or good smile, not a fake smile. And then when people see the smile. They feel it when they are, when they, when it's genuine, when it's really a smile, not fake smile. Like sometimes we see on the TV shows, right? And the actors, they smile and then they turn around and they are, Hey, why you guys doing this or that, so that's the first thing you know when somebody comes in they have to see that you having a good day. 'cause Jimmy Lea: yeah, Roberto Ibarra: you working, but you. You are not really working. You are working for your independence, your financial independence. That's what you are doing. Sooner or later it's gonna come. But that's, you have you working for your financial independence that is gonna come either way. So you, you have a, you having a nice day, working on your work, working environment, and people feel it. And then after that, everything is smooth. 'cause everything you asking to the customer is is for their benefit of the customer. How can we help you? This is your car. This is the mileage this is the recommendation. We're gonna do a right inspection. We don't say like we don't sell like oil chains. Why you say, you know what, we're gonna do a right inspection just to see everything else. Not only the oil chains. Because you may need something else. Say, okay, you're gonna check that for me. Okay, great. And then people just take it the nice way, now we are not overselling. Of course, if something comes out, we have sell it, but not because we just wanna increase the numbers because when increase the the safety of the customer or the customer, the customer experience that, okay, these guys check this, all this, they check all this pressure, they take a, took a picture of their filter, the wipers. It is a lot of work that involved because we wanna give the big picture to the customer so they know everything about their cars. The car is an investment that you take care of, that it's not if you don't, maintain it is the investment is. It's gonna go to the ground. To the ground. Jimmy Lea: So where in the process of customer service, where do you feel like most other shops fail? The process of customer service, good customer service, Roberto Ibarra: communication. Communication. And probably two things. Probably communication and clarity. 'cause that's why that when, that's what I noticed when we fell. 'Cause I'm, we not perfect. When we fail for some reason, maybe, and there's no excuses, but sometimes there's a busy day or somebody is going somewhere and then, and we miss the communication part. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: As does the does. And it is not hard to miss it, but also it's not hard to do it, to have the right communication with the customer. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: That's the biggest thing that that probably. You can damage the image of one customer. One shop is when you lose the communication with the customer. You don't have that process followed through all the way. Yeah and clarity. When you communicate, you have to be clear, Hey, we're gonna do this, but after this we have to continue doing that. And then something, oh you told me you're gonna do this, it's gonna be okay. No, remember we told you this. And then after that, we're gonna go to the next step. So you have to be clear. And communication. And clarity. Clarity. That's probably, those are the couple of the big things that I feel, probably another shop owner may tell you something different aspects. It depends, but for me, those are big ones. Yeah. Yeah. When there's sincerity, good communication and clarity. Everything is gonna be smooth because sometimes we, you have good communication, even if the customer is not really ready to do the repairs, but they know e either they do it or not, but they already know. And that's important thing, right? That we have to challenge what it needs. Either they do it or not. That's their decision. Yeah, but they know, even they don't do it on your shop. They may go to somewhere else, but they know that they have to do the service. Like the rates are, about to, and they say, okay, oh yeah I won't do it, but they may go to another shop, but it's fine. But they know that they have to do it, and that's important thing we contribute to the solution. Either we are not part of that, but, it's okay. The sun comes for everybody, right? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, it does. It does. And yeah, I Good, clear, precise communication can help alleviate a lot of issues and problems with customers, with clients, with technicians, with business partners, with spouses, with children. Roberto Ibarra: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Good. Clear communication can go a long way, Roberto Ibarra: especially with the spouse. The spouse, the. Yeah, that's the main one. That's the main one actually. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And I noticed that your shop is made up of a lot of family. Your wife works there, and I believe that you have two boys that are working there. Roberto Ibarra: No, my son is in the office and my cousin is running the, she's, she was in the office for so many years now. She runs the school program on the she's like the principal of the school. We can say. My cousin, but she was in the office for so many years and my son is in the office right now. He's on a transition. I don't know if he's gonna continue with us, but it's fine. But he was, he's been here for two years and a half. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Roberto Ibarra: And he learn a lot. He, when he came and he had no idea how the industry was in, but he. He was in the office not as a technician side. He didn't, my sons, I have four sons. None of them are like on the mechanic side on the industry. They see the industry, but they don't like technicians. They, it is not like the, they don't get their attention. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's not the job. That's not their passion. It's not what they love. It's Roberto Ibarra: no. Yeah. But Jimmy Lea: they come to daddy, Hey, Papa. Help. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. But right now we working on, like my son's car, he's a carpenter. He is work, he works on the union as a carpenter. And we doing the service on his cars, rack Andino is broken. Okay. But yeah, he not like, and I don't blame, this is not, as every, any other industry, right? Not, yeah. It's not for, we have skills for this and that. Once we discover them, we always, the sooner, the better. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, for sure. And I see that you're working on it looks like all makes and all models European, Asian vehicles domestic. Is there any vehicles that you're not working on? Roberto Ibarra: EVs, EVs EVs we have the skill to do like alignments, race and all that. We get, couple of those services, but we don't push it that much. Okay. And because the, I don't wanna the invest so much on that industry, the percentage not that much. And the guys, not every take is on EVs. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Roberto Ibarra: And you can force them, Hey guys, now I wanna work on these cars. And then, let's do this service on this deadline, I'm gonna drop the battery and do the, do the, or go do the troubleshooting. And then it, and it is you I feel like I'm imposing. And if they wanna do it, they gonna find their own path. They gonna say you, no, you know what? I would like to take some training on Teslas. They have the curiosity, but when they find that curiosity on them. They follow through, and I can, as a shop owner, Hey, you you really into it? Yeah. I can pay the the training for you. Yeah. And yeah, we can do some, we can put some of, some more of this because you are you like it, you have, you feel attached to that industry, to that industry. Not to that industry, to that technology, right? Yeah. But every tech, I find out that not every tech is into. Electronics, like electricity stuff. Yeah. Is, suspensions, brakes, all that is the same except for some settings you have to use a scan tool to do breaks and things like that. But it's basic still. But yeah, going deep into this technologies, like you have to really like it. You have to really feel it. If not yeah. Just basic services. Yeah. Pretty much. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I love that you're talking about the technicians and their passion for the industry. What's their passion? Do they love working on diesel vehicles? Do they love working on combustion engines? EVs or propane is a big thing. Natural gas, not a big thing. It's a thing. And then what's coming next? Is it gonna be hydrogen? Is it gonna be, who knows what's coming next that there, but where's their passion? That's what you're talking about. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Just look what they do. They and everybody's different, every technician has their own Jimmy Lea: their own strengths. Their own abilities. Their own passions. Their own interests. Roberto Ibarra: Interests and all that. Yeah. And yeah. And some guys like to do engines. Some guys don't like to do engines. Yeah. They like to do suspensions and alignments. And some guys like to do like services, right? Doing the all day long, you doing services, all chain inspections filters, transmission services, and all that is is once they find and then they ask the office, right? Hey, is there any services and that I can do or the service advisor knows already. They discover, oh yeah, this guy likes to this. I'm gonna assign this. And Right, we are, we know Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: We see the potential and the guys that we, they do the most and what they never complain about it. And, but somebody started to say, Hey, oh, I, this is not my thing, like doing tires. Maybe it's not your thing. If there's nothing else, you do it, but it's not like you gonna do it every day. Because there, there's another guy doing the alignments and tires and that's the thing. Yeah. We have to find, we have to find that point where we meet, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Roberto Ibarra: Mission in the office to assign the work, the workflow. Yes. Which is pretty normal on the industry, right? It is. It's every shop probably is doing, does the same thing. Yeah. Finding the right job for the right guys. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: The better we organize that the better flow we find on the shop. Jimmy Lea: For sure. For sure. So we talk a lot about technicians. Let's talk about shop owners now here for a few minutes. When it comes to shop owners, what what do you think are some of the biggest challenges facing business shop owners today? Roberto Ibarra: Big challenges that I see on the field. 'cause I. Work with a lot of techs on my area, on my training is the there's lack of techs, but it is not really lack of tech. It is a lot of the lack of techs that we have on the field, on the industry. It is because the shop owners, a lot of shop owners are not investing on the tax. And that's one, that's number one. Lot of shop owners don't get it. That in order to have to grow tax, we have to invest in them. Yeah. And a lot of shop owners really don't invest on the tax and equipment. Some they getting the point like, okay, we're gonna invest, but already behind. Behind because yeah, you should do it. She did it like 10 years ago and they struggle finding text. Then at the end of the day, you find a tech that is he doesn't have the knowledge or the skill and he wants to grow, but he finds himself on a place where there's not too much opportunity to grow. And they stuck. And then this tech moves to another place. And then he's not being well trained 'cause he's. The problem that it has on the other shop is not really training the guys. It's only like profit. And then we ended up with that SQL or text around just moving around and not really finding a good text. And we and there's good text. Oh, there's a lot of good text. Yeah. But the thing is they don't. They don't go to just any place, right? Yeah, they have now they, they found themselves that they, the value that they have, they know the value they have because the industry has been changing a lot. And they recognize that on them. And they say, you know what, if I'm gonna move, if I'm gonna look around this is the shop that I gonna work for. And they picture that shop on their, the mine. So they, when they come. Ask you some questions. They interviewing you now we interviewing the tech, they interview the shop owner. They, okay, this is what I know. What you, how you guys do things over here. And they like it. They come, but it is a, it's a struggle that is been around for some time, but is because also it's, is some, sometime is, it is for fault, but not only us, right? The education, the educational system that we have. It's not up to date. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. Couple of things, we can talk about it, but the thing is that as, as soon as we we as a shop owners understand that we have to invest on the guys. Yeah. So they grow and they wanna grow. Okay, let's let 'em grow let's let 'em grow. Invest on that. Yeah. Oh, I love it. Then once, once they see that you care about them. 'cause that knowledge, they're gonna carry it everywhere they go. Yeah. Not only on the shop. Yeah. That's my saying. You know my saying is, you come to my shop, you have to live better than when you came. And that's always my idea. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. I love that. And I'm sure that you see the same thing that I see those shops that do invest in their technicians, they do invest in training. The technicians elevate, they, they rise to the occasion, they rise to the training they've received. And now as a shop owner, we look around and say, oh my gosh they've improved. Now. What else can I do? A service advisor, service advisors need training as well. And once that service advisor is trained, they're looking around, what can I do? I need a coach. I need a trainer. I need somebody to help me because they know things that I don't know. When we get together, we elevate the entire shop, the entire industry. I Roberto Ibarra: right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah, you can, you is, as a shop owner, you, we have too many things on the plate. On our plate and on, on my case. I also run the school program, the training program. Jimmy Lea: Tell us about your school that you're running. 'cause you've got the smog check training for the state of California, Roberto Ibarra: correct? Yes. So I have, I run the program for the and the reason I run the program. I like it is because I, 'cause I like to be on training all the time and that I say, this is gonna, this is gonna encourage myself to be on training more, because I have to. To be on top of technology to in order to teach something to the guys. Yeah. So I started going more, more and more on training. And then when I shared the training, I feel like I'm doing something for the industry. I see guys that come to my training, they get certified, they start their own business, and now we've been doing this for seven years now, seven, eight years now. I see people already, you know that they already certify. They start their own business. Now they have one or two, three locations, and some of them became technicians. Some of them, they just do inspections, but it's part of the industry. Oh, I love it. I do this on the, I have a classroom on my shop, the, I have a four day shop, five day shop. Yeah. So one day is for the school. So I have a wall, I have my studio here to shoot videos online and also to do the hands-on training. I have everything that I have every scan tool that you can think of, scopes and all that. So I let him practice on everything that I, this is my idea of the teaching. When the guys come, I just, 'cause I know it's, it is a short class, it's a short training. It's my longest training is three months, and it is not every week. It is like every other week. So they are here now for so long, right? I have another two, another class that is two months long. So when they are here, I like them to see what is out there, but is out there not only on the big, on the carves, on the on. Also in the repair industry. So they see what is out there and then when they see it say, oh man, I didn't know that you can do this with this tool. Or, I don't know. This tool exists to do this simple test like a relative compression test, which is very simple to do. And I'm amazed that right now some guys that are working on cars, they don't know what is a compress relative compression is Jimmy Lea: right, Roberto Ibarra: and how simple it is. Oh, relative test that you can do it in five minutes with the scope and give you a lot of information. Yep. And I'm amazed. Some guys are like still working on cars under the, on the case. They never got, and then they, when they come out, say, oh man, I'm I really, I like it what it is now. I like, but I wanna learn more. You, so I, my idea is to open their eyes and see what they can. They can with little bit of training because they're already on the industry, but a little bit of training they can accomplish a lot. So we have the technology now, and that's the idea, the training, because they are they don't stay with me so long. Yeah. And some they continue coming. I have a group last, the last quarter of 25 and I, the guys that came to my training, they said, I wanna continue going to your training January priority March. So they like the they wanna grow, right? So sometimes that's the only training that they go to because probably are not they. They don't. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it, Roberto. This is freaking awesome, dude. Congratulations. The okay, so what advice, if you were starting your shop today, what advice would you give yourself? And it sounds like you've given the same advice probably to a lot of guys that are starting their own shops as you've been working with them over the last 10 years. What advice would you give yourself if you were to start your shop today? Roberto Ibarra: My advice and is, and this is an advice that I. If somebody told me this 18 years ago, 20 years ago for I starting a shop, this is what I, this is what I like them to tell me. So I rather go to a shop and let me work on that shop or be on the shop two, three months as a looking. The process and all that. I can pay the shop just for them to letting me be on their side and look what they do, invest, I don't know, 1, 2, 3, 4 months run to see how they run the shop, what things happen on the shop and all that. So I can see what's the real world when it comes to running a shop. And. I don't know if their shops are willing to do that, right? Okay, you can come to my shop, pay me, I don't know, five, $10,000 and you wanna be exposed to what is what it is to run a shop and then doing the investment. You wanna learn, you wanna see, reality. And then after that, you're gonna have the best training. Because what happens is this, that's what I see. You go, you open a shop. You are a technician and then you say, oh, I like to run a job. And then you find out that you are not a shop owner, you are a technician, which is different thing. Running a business is not the same thing as a fixing in a car. And then that's when everything starts to you start like feeling bad because you cannot work on us anymore and you cannot. Really service the people the right way because you don't know how to do it. And then sometimes it's a struggle that sometimes the shops does it drain you out, it drain your energy. Yeah. And I've seen it, I seen it with guys in my area that happens to them. They have laws, they have to move something else 'cause they just lose interest because they didn't know those things. And so there's a, a. A place where I can get trained all this time and see what it takes to run a shop. So I know, 'cause yeah, I can go to some trainings, but probably the best training is going to direct to a shop. I don't know if a lot of shops are willing to train someone, but maybe there is, there's a good shops that they can let you know, somebody learn the business side. Just watch. Just watch. Because, you get that call, Hey I just, I assume my car and my car doesn't start like in the next half, an hour later. And then you get that call. What you gonna do about it? You don't have experience. Your blood goes to, you feel like your energy just drain all the way because you don't know what to do. You not, you don't have experience something. Yeah. And then after that moment, you don't have experience. Everything else, you do every decision you do after that moment when you get that call that people is customer is frustrated, you just gonna lose it. And you can make a bad decisions. Yeah. So you have to be prepared for everything and you have to know that those things happen and on the shop. So it is, yeah. My best advice is to get. Onboard with a shop and get, be there. Jimmy Lea: Training, invest in yourself. Yeah. And if there's a technician listening to this or there's somebody who wants to be a shop owner that's listening to this, go, like you're saying, Roberto, go to a shop, work there. Or if you are already there, goes talk to the shop owner and say, Hey, look I, in my three-year, five-year plan, I wanna own and operate. I wanna run a shop. What can you do to help train me for my future? There's a lot of free classes and courses you can take from community college, from chamber of chamber of Commerce. There's a lot of different places that you can go to and get that foundation, which is investing in yourself, and you'll discover one or two things. I can't wait to be a business owner. This is gonna be awesome. It's gonna be so amazing. I'm thriving on learning these numbers and the parts markup and the matrix and the parts labor. And I love how this all works together. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. And two books that you should read. The, one of the books, two books that I, for the industry that I work pretty good for the industry is the Spark. That's one book Spark and the other one is Profit loss. Profit First. Jimmy Lea: Profit First. Yeah. Roberto Ibarra: Probably those two. It will give you a pretty, pretty good idea on the business side? Yeah, Roberto Ibarra: on the business side of the numbers, how the numbers work. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Great business advice for sure. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah, those two. Because, sometimes we are excited because, oh, somebody offered me this shop, I'm gonna jump in and I'm gonna, start working on cars and all that, and I'm gonna. Be happy and then, but the thing is, I love work on cars and I'm happy that I have somebody help helping me in the office now that I can work on cars and I can shoot videos, I can you know this, in my area, I can do whatever I want. I have everything that I need to work on a car. I have I can program my computers, I can program everything. I have contact with. These great companies, like our Logic, a tools and computer, they help me when I get stuck. So I have all the support that I possible, and I'm, and besides that I'm teaching, which is something that I feel passionate about it. And when I teaching I just lose the, I don't know, the time, I just lose track of the time. It's not the same thing as owning a business. When you run the numbers, those are called numbers. The numbers are called they don't charge to you. They just, there's no fund. There's no it just a number that if it is one plus one is two, two plus two is four, and that's it. And red numbers. It's red numbers. It was something, didn't render the, the right way. Something happened, you just not make making a profit. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. So true. The numbers don't lie, Roberto, this is what you're saying. The numbers are there and the numbers are numbers. You need to know your numbers and we hear that in the auto industry all the time, especially amongst shop owners. You've gotta know your numbers. You gotta know those key performance indicators. Roberto Ibarra: That's right. Jimmy Lea: Because as you're investing in yourself, you're gonna discover that you wanna be in business and you love it. Or the second thing you're gonna learn is, Hey, you know what? I really love working on cars and that's where my passion is. I really don't want to be a business owner. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. Yep. So Jimmy Lea: in invest in your technicians, because it, they're either gonna be your best friend, competitor, and they're not your competitor, they're your best friend, or they're gonna become one of your best employees. Roberto Ibarra: Korea. I have a neighbor, he own a shop right here. He worked work for me for 10 years. Yeah, he is right here next door and he runs his shop with his friend, their partner, and yeah, we friends and Jimmy Lea: that. I love it. I love it. I love it. Roberto, we wind this down. I wanna run some quick. Questions past you? One word answer, one sentence answer. This is rapid fire. I've got five quick questions for you. You ready? Roberto Ibarra: Ready. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Number one, what's one tool you can't live without in your shop? Roberto Ibarra: Scope. Jimmy Lea: A scope? Okay. What's your favorite type of job? Diagnostic, maintenance. Big repairs or electrical? What do you love the most? Roberto Ibarra: Electrical. Jimmy Lea: I could have called that. What's the best business book or podcast you've learned from? Roberto Ibarra: Okay, say it again. Jimmy Lea: What is the best business book or podcast that you've learned from? We just talked about two books. Do you have a third or is there a podcast that you've learned from? Roberto Ibarra: I learned from this what was his name? What is his name? He's always on the expertss. He had, what's his name? Jimmy Lea: Lucas Underwood with Changing the Industry podcast. Roberto Ibarra: I know him, but there's another guy who was before him. I think his Italian name. Italian name? Jimmy Lea: Karm. Capto Caprio, Roberto Ibarra: yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Remarkable Results Radio. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. Yeah. I started listening to him long time. Oh Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah. I love him. He's got a great program. What habit that, what what is a habit that has improved your leadership? Roberto Ibarra: Talk to the guys more. Jimmy Lea: Communication. Communication. You talked about that. What do you wish your customers understood about owning a repair shop that they don't understand today? Roberto Ibarra: Know their car. Read the menu. Read the menu of the car. Yeah, they have no idea. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. All last and final thought. What. What do you want your listeners to remember about Roberto and Aztec auto repairs? Roberto Ibarra: That there's always something to learn and never stop learning. Never have Jimmy Lea: That is so true. It was so Socrates. Socrates who said, the more I learn, the less I know. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. But it's always fun. Yes. Jimmy Lea: Because the more you learn, the more you learn that, oh my gosh, there's so much. I don't know. There's so much more I need to learn. Roberto Ibarra: Yeah. Just open your eyes. Thank Jimmy Lea: you. Yes, Roberto. Thank you very much, brother. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining here, us here at the Institute for the Leading Edge podcast. Roberto Ibarra: Oh, no. Thank you very much, Simi. See you next time and have a great year.

200 - Live with Wayne Marshall & Lucas Underwood: Culture and Hard Conversations April 14, 2026 - 00:57:08 Show Summary: This conversation explores the challenges business owners face when leadership culture and direction are unclear. It shows how a lack of vision and poor communication can make problems feel overwhelming. Real examples highlight how integrity accountability and honesty help overcome major setbacks. The discussion stresses the need for a clear destination and consistent leadership by example. It also explains how avoiding hard conversations creates bigger issues over time. Key takeaways include breaking goals into steps reducing noise and building a team aligned with the vision. Strong leadership is the foundation for long term success.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast   Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Wayne shares his path to leading the institute and driving change [00:02:45] – A shop owner admits fear of failure and constant burnout [00:04:00] – Most problems come from weak leadership and no clear direction [00:05:30] – Wayne loses a million dollars but chooses integrity over quitting [00:07:30] – Truth and honesty build lasting trust with everyone [00:10:00] – Reverse engineering goals makes big problems easier to solve [00:12:30] – Culture is built by actions not words [00:14:00] – Success comes from team behavior not strategy [00:20:00] – Avoiding conflict leads to confusion and poor results [00:51:00] – Keeping the wrong people pushes great employees away   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/VAu4ek2afFU   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: What is up everybody? Lucas Underwood here. I'm here with Wayne Marshall. Wayne was just asking the question, how many profanities can we have in each a MA session? I'm gonna tell you that Cecil usually averages around 10, so as long as you get at least 10, we're in good shape. Wayne, you're the CEO of the institute. Uh, welcome. Thank you for being here. And I think we should kind of start, first of all, we had planned to go one direction. Something happened last night. Yeah. I'm gonna shift directions on this a little bit. Want to, uh, talk about something that I think is important and, uh, Wayne, I would love for you to introduce yourself. I know a lot of folks know you, but a lot of folks don't. Would you introduce yourself to the people? Wayne Marshall: Sure. I'm honored. Hey, first, it's great to be here again, Lucas, we. Always enjoy our conversations, connections with you, David, as we work through many, many things. So, uh, yeah, I've been at the institute, um, I mean, I started off coaching and doing a little bit of other things on the side with them and helping 'em on, you know, bigger leadership things. And ultimately, uh, was honored to be asked if I would step into the CE role and helping with a lot of transitional things. So I've been in this position for a little over a year now. Uh, we've made a lot of changes within the institute. Some you're aware of some. People in the market are aware of, you know, we did create a holding company, gear Group Holdings. Uh, we're slowly building and we're gonna have multiple entities underneath that, more announcements to come in the future. It's an exciting time. This industry is doing great things and I'm just honored to be with the institute and helping and contributing to everything we're trying to do to make it a better place, a better industry, just like we say. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Absolutely. Yes sir. And so, you know, here's the thing is I'm, I'm watching the Institute grow to this group of individuals, right? Yes. Like we talk about our core team all the time, and I'm watching this core team develop in some of the smartest people I've ever met or on this core team. Now, Wayne, you've worked in big business before and you've worked in some big dollar businesses. And you've told a story in the past about some of the troubles in some of those big dollar businesses in the past and some of the stress and some of that. And, you know, I'm, I'm gonna tell you, I, I've been through struggles here recently. You know, the, the kind of 3:00 AM wake up where you're laying in bed saying, can I get through this? Is it even possible for me to navigate this? And so we were supposed to be talking about the five Cs today. Okay. We will do an a MA on the five Cs, I promise. We're, it's an important topic. We're gonna cover it, we're gonna cover it in great detail at some point. But last night I had a gentleman reach out. Now I'd been telling him for a couple days that I was going to call him, and I've been real busy and I hadn't been able to call him. And, and he sends me this message and it kind of struck at my heartstrings and he said, um, I can only meet after about 5 30, 6 o'clock, seven, somewhere around there where I'm finishing up my day in the shop. And it, it just struck me as odd. That conversation went on a little bit and he said, uh, man, I, I just feel like my shop is going to fail. I, I, I don't think I can step away from the shop, and that is a warning sign. Okay, Wayne, I know you've seen it. I've seen it. Um, yep. If we get to the point with our shop that we can't walk away, we can't step back, we can't take a day off. We have to stay till seven o'clock at night. We have to come in at 6:00 AM or everything falls apart. Something is very wrong. And chances are it's that we're trying to squeeze this sucker. Like we're trying to get blood from a turnip. We're squeezing so hard, we're causing part of the problems. And so last night I said, you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and call him. And so I called him. We had a really great conversation and. As we began to talk, I, I just so related to my own personal life in this discussion, because he gives me a list of all the problems. This employee did this, this car did this, this happened, and this employee that used to work here did this, and the previous leadership did this and all of these things. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop. And he said, what? I said, you know, my first business coach, I gave him a list of very similar problems and we didn't fix any of them. And he said, what do you mean? Like all of these huge problems I've got going on? And I said, listen, I said, it sounds like we've got a void in leadership. It sounds like we've gotta void in culture. And that the problem is, is your team doesn't know where you're trying to go and it's really hard for them to follow you somewhere that they don't know where they're going. We don't have a map, we don't have a destination. He began to talk about the fact he has this partner and the partner's kind of disengaged and not really involved, and the money is really falling on his back and, and me and you have had hard conversations about this because you told me a story one time about being in that spot. And people that you trusted, people that you thought were gonna do a, an amazing job and help you accomplish all the things you wanted to accomplish. It didn't work out that way. Did it? Tell us a little bit. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. It's, it's, you know, we've all had those. Unfortunate life lessons that we have to learn. And yeah, I mean, it goes back a few, well, more than a few. It goes back, uh, about a dozen years or more. And, uh, I had a partner. We were rolling. The business was growing and come to find out outside of myself, but in his situation, um, he failed to pay the IRS. On his personal taxes. There was other things that came in and there was some other stuff and, and at the end of the day, he was not gonna be the best partner. We decided it was best that we separate out. There was litigation, IRS coming, everybody trying to cross sue and do other things, and it was very hard and he ended up costing me about a million dollars. And that's not a hard one to come back from. And you know, as we were a growing business and we were able to recover, we were able to continue to grow. And before I sold the company and got out, we reached 10 million in revenue. Um, so we, you know, we ended up being very successful. But that's where it really starts to measure who you are as a person. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Wayne Marshall: Choose to treat others. Uh, you know, we talk about culture as you mentioned a little bit, you talked about that leadership element of, and I always say, you know. Problems are gonna happen in life. What really defines you as a person is what you choose to do next. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Wayne Marshall: And as the attorneys told me, they, you know, you just need to file bankruptcy. I said, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not going to stick vendors and others with a problem. That is not their problem. It was my problem. And through hard work, we were able to make everybody whole. I didn't go to any of 'em and ask for discounts. I didn't ask for favors. I only asked for time. And one of the things that I learned from this, as hard as it is, and in some of the conversations when you deal and this comes even when you're dealing with those, talking a little bit about the five Cs, when you get that customer that comes in who's upset and not happy and whatever, I would always tell all our vendors and all our partners that we were working with to help get the company on the right footing. If anything ever happens this year, you're always gonna hear the truth. You might not like the truth. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Wayne Marshall: I might not be able to pay you today. I might not be able to do this, but I'm gonna tell you what my plan is. I'm gonna tell you the truth, and I'm gonna tell you how I'm gonna continue to march forward to get us back to the right place. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And I can remember when I was all said and done, one of our vendor partners was out of Ohio. I was at the manufacturing plant and the owner president, CEO came up to me and he goes, you know what? That was really hard. I wondered if I was ever gonna see, and I owed him hundreds of thousands and he said, I really wonder, but you, you did everything you said you're gonna do. And he complimented me on my credibility and my integrity and at least being honorable. He didn't always like my answers. He didn't always like me when I said, I don't have any money, but I should have this and this. I'll be able to do this and do, and then we do. And it's no different when you deal with people inside. Your company and be it a your, your team, your coworkers, uh, along with those customers that come in honesty and truthfulness. I mean, it's hard, but it's where we gotta stand. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Wayne Marshall: Amen. And sometimes you got bad parts, sometimes you gotta a guy who didn't do the job right, and you just, you gotta own it. And then you gotta say, but look, here's what we're gonna do next. Lucas Underwood: You know, here's, here's what stands out to me. Right. And, and you know about all the stuff that I've been going through and, and I don't mind to share kind of the, the details, but, but the point is, is that I remember 10 years ago if, if I was faced with the challenges I have right now, they would've seemed insurmountable. Right? And I'm talking to this gentleman and to him, these problems he's facing right now seem insurmountable. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Lucas Underwood: And the worst thing that we can do is lock up. Right? Yes. The worst thing that we can do is get stuck and locked down and say, I see no path forward. There's nothing I can do. This is just what it is. I, I've heard the term before, fall in love with your problems, right? Like they, they fall in love with these problems. They don't see a pathway, and it's just like, oh, this is just what it is. But, you know, I listened to your story and I'm thinking, well, gosh, my problem's not nearly as bad as Wayne's problem was. I mean, like his attorneys were saying, I am so sorry you went through that. My attorney's not said that yet. So it, it couldn't be that bad. Right? Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Uh, Lucas Underwood: I think that, that creating a pathway forward, at least taking a step instead of locking up and getting to the point that we just say, I can't see a way forward. I can't see a pathway, it is so important to stop. And, and, you know, there is, um. A goal coach. He, he was famous years ago. His name was Jim Fanon, and Jim Fanon had this video, he is talking about true champions and one of the things he said in that video was, is he said, A true champion goes not from A to B, but in their mind they go to B and they illuminate a path back chronologically to a. They don't, they don't look at me and say, oh my gosh, I gotta get there. I don't know how they build a pathway. One step at a time, right? Wayne Marshall: Well, there's, there's a, you know, we all go through this and I use the comment and even when I'm coaching clients and we talk about this and I say, you know, here's where you want to go and we get it, but sometimes when you look at everything that's in between it, it just looks like it's insurmountable. So I said, okay, time out. Reverse engineer it. Lucas Underwood: Exactly Wayne Marshall: reverse engineer. So stop and think about it. 'cause when you start to break down these steps, it never fails. When I've had some really, and even here since the time I've been at the institute, I mean, we've had some big things, some big hurdles to get over and we sit there and you just start reverse engineering. It's like, okay, if I gotta do one thing or two things, what are they Before I can do numbers five, eight. Whatever the number is down, down the road. And when you start to reverse engineer, it never fails. You start to go backwards, backwards, and then you get, it's like, oh, well if I do do this and this, that's gonna help it and make it easier when I get to number five and number eight and number. Well, good. So let's get started. Let's start doing something. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Wayne Marshall: And do it Lucas Underwood: if we don't have a destination though. Right? Right. Because that's what I found in this conversation last night. I said, where are we going? What are we trying to accomplish? He said, I don't know. You just, I show up in the morning and we just fix cars and like, that's what we do. No, no, that, that's not a destination, dear. That's not where you're headed. We must have a destination. Yeah, we gotta be going somewhere. He said, well, I mean, I just don't know what other destination you could have as an auto repair shop. And I said, well, one day you're not gonna be able to work on cars anymore. One day you're not gonna be able to be an advisor anymore. One day you're gonna have to retire or sell the business. What does it look like then, because that's kind of important to know, Wayne Marshall: right? Well, I, Lucas Underwood: I never, never gonna retire. Wayne Marshall: Well, I, I mean, we all talk about it and when I've been, you know, when we're getting into coaching conversations, you gotta build your bench. Yeah, I mean, if you, you've gotta sit here and say, I can't be all things to all people and do everything. So how do I build my bench and when I build my bench, how do I create that culture that if I'm not there. They know what to do. And as you start to work this through, I always suggest to everybody, I mean, we've got a client, I'll talk a little bit, and he was on your podcast, Jonathan here, just recent. And you know, in some of the conversations with Jonathan, he buys his shop. He's going great. His numbers are, you know, really starting to build and take off. But one of the things I said to Jonathan, I mean, as you're building this team culture and you're building it out. To really find out if they got it. Call in sick one day. Don't come in two days in a row on the whole, the process. Give them a little bit of a stress test. Let's see how the team reacts. Because one of the things when you talk about culture, and we were talking about this right before the podcast started. We all have handbooks. We all have these, you know, vision, mission, goals, all the things we're doing. We put it on posters, it all looks pretty. All that tells you is what you can do. Yeah, but it never tells you what you should do. Yeah. And when you build the culture and you really embrace those words and you understand now you're doing what you should do, which is right for the business, it's right for the customer. It's right for your vendors, it's right for your employees. And when you start doing all those things that you should do, you will end up on the right side of it. Absolutely. You will have success. You might not have all the success you want. But man, you're gonna start building on that and the energy will come and you'll start having success. Yeah. And it, and it starts to build on itself. Lucas Underwood: One of the most powerful CEOs I've ever met in my entire life, extremely successful, uh, extremely big dollar organization, and he said something I will never forget. He said, my company's success comes from the behavior of my people. It doesn't come from the strategy. It doesn't come from the budget, it doesn't come from any of that. It comes from the behavior of my people. And I said, okay, well how do you get the behavior that you want in your people? He said, it's my belief system. It's the culture of the organization. And so I have a performance environment that is orchestrated in such a way that they understand why we're doing what we're doing and where we're going, and what we hope to accomplish by getting there. Right. Yeah. And I think that's something that so many people miss. You know, I, I, there's a video and I can't remember exactly how they laid it out, but they said there's basically five questions every employee wants to know. Where are we going? What do you want me to do? How am I doing now? And I can't remember what the other ones were, but like, you get the point. And we don't answer that in automotive. Wayne Marshall: No. Lucas Underwood: Right? No, I have seen this over and over again. What we're doing is we show up and it's like, Hey, we're gonna fix cars. It can't be about fixing cars, Wayne. It has to be about something bigger. You know, it's like this trust is earned through repeated behaviors and you have to be going somewhere, right? We talk about this generation of employee, we talk about this generation as a whole, and everybody says, Hey, they don't wanna work. No. They want to be going on a journey. Showing up, you don't have a purpose. Take's not enough, right? Wayne Marshall: You gotta have Lucas Underwood: a purpose. It's gotta be more than that. How does a shop owner, so let's talk about that for a minute, because this guy's sitting here and he's saying, look, I've got one employee who's disgruntled about coming in early. I've got one employee who's disgruntled about staying late. I've got one employee who's disgruntled about how many cars we work on. I've got one employee who's disgruntled because we're not working on enough cars. He said, I don't know what to do. I'm getting all this feedback. It's all this mixed emotion. I don't know what step to take next. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: How do we pinpoint this? What's a good way to settle that emotion a little bit and find our way? Wayne Marshall: First off, I would tell, um, when I've done presentations and, you know, I did a breakout session just at tectonic around culture and how to craft that culture, and it starts with the owner. You've gotta own it. This, if you try to make this a team event to build culture. It'll never work. 'cause if one person isn't responsible and owns it, nobody owns it. And that's gotta start with you, the owner. And I, one of the questions I was asked, there was a husband wife in the session that I was at, they only have two other employees. And she asked the question, he says, you know, we're not very big. We don't have the opportunity to stop and have these meetings and do this and do that. How do we start building culture? And I said, it's the easiest thing. Because when you are small, you start to lead by example. You develop that belief system. And a simple thing to do is, is how, how you answer the phone, how you're treating the customers. You're walking through the back, you see the, the, the bay isn't very clean or whatever. Grab a broom, sweep real quick, help tech out. And all of a sudden you're gonna come by a couple days later and he's sweeping. Because he saw you sweeping and people build on that example of, again, if you, if you just have it written out and here's our process, do this. Well, that's what you can do. That's not what you should do. But when you do it, you're showing what should be done. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Wayne Marshall: And it, and if, and it starts with just the simple things. And then you start having conversations that start to expand. And then you start to say, you know, well, here's what we're trying to get accomplished, and we wanna be a company of trust, integrity, you know, all the things we talk about and how a service advisor talking to a customer. You wanna build that trust because when you start building trust and you give 'em the information of that estimate of what needs to be done, that's gonna help you get their car and keep it safe because nobody wants to send Sally down the road and all of a sudden the brakes aren't what they should be. And she goes through a stop sign where their kids in the back and someone gets hurt and you don't want to have that on you. So you wanna build that trust so we can deal with these things. So it takes time, but it becomes observable. Simple. Going all the way back to the beginning. If you see something, grab a broom, pick up the trash, pick up the empty parts box that you know the tech didn't have time because he's now going on a test drive. Pick 'em up real quick, help him. And when you do things like this that are become observable, people notice. And you know, and again, it comes back to also when you see people doing good things, what gets rewarded gets repeated. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: So acknowledge it. Acknowledge it in front of others. For sure. Tell the tech, Hey, that was a really great job. You know what the, the place looks awesome. You know, the day was over and man, that was awesome. You took 30 minutes to straighten up and ready. We're gonna hit the ground running in the morning. I can't wait to get started tomorrow. That energy builds. It does. Now you're changing the culture. Lucas Underwood: You're Wayne Marshall: exactly right. And people feel better and they don't start complaining about, well, it's, what about this? Or, I don't wanna start early. I don't want. It, it feeds on themselves and they quit that other stuff and they start looking at the other things that you're showing Lucas Underwood: and, and here's the deal with that and, and let's use the five C's as an example because mm-hmm. That was kind of one of the things we were supposed to talk about. Yep. And when we talk about writing a repair order, I deal with this all the time with shops and I deal with this in my own shop. It's like we get away from the five Cs. And, and you say, well, well, why did we get away from the five Cs? Or, Hey, they won't do the five Cs. Well, first of all, they have to see me do it, right? Right. I have to build that repair order and I show them what I expect. You see, thi this is. I'm guilty of this because what I want is I want the business to do what I want the business to do, but I don't necessarily wanna put the work in doing the things that I don't like doing in the business. Right. Right. Like I was a tech, I love turning wrenches. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Lucas Underwood: Eventually I got to the situation like, Hey, it's not feasible for me to remain the technician. That means I'm gonna have to do some things I don't like doing, so I have to learn to be an advisor. I eventually fell in love with being an advisor, communicating with clients, doing all the things, but it was a, it was a process I had to. Force myself out of turning the wrenches and into the advisor role. And then they started seeing the way that I wanted the tickets written. And so I would correct them and I would go back and I would say, Hey guys, this isn't working. Well, see, we, we don't often wanna face that conflict, Wayne, we wanna pull away from the conflict. While I don't wanna upset 'em, what if they quit? What if something, right. But what if you, you keep them and they don't do the job they need to do. Yeah. Right. And besides what if they don't even understand, they're not meeting your expectations. What I would do is I would take the five C layout. I've got a sheet that explains what the five C. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I would go through the five Cs and I would go item by item by item, and I would say, okay, now here's what I expect this to look like. They would send me a repair order. I would work with them. I would critique it. I would say, here's what we need to do. What do they do in school when they grade your paper? They critique it and they come back and they say, no, we shouldn't do this. We should do this instead. Right. And so over time you build that process. Now I'm gonna tell you something, you stop doing it. Okay? Guess what happens? It all falls apart. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And culture is the exact same way. Yep. If we take and we put the wrong person in our culture, Wayne. They will destroy it. They will have their culture. I've heard time and time again, the most dangerous thing is that someone in your business is going to be a leader, whether it's you or whether it's somebody else. And there's a lot's of people you don't want leading your people. That's Wayne Marshall: correct. Lucas Underwood: You know, Wayne Marshall: I, I set it on, I set it on, uh, Friday at my breakout session. Every company has culture. Yeah. Either you designed it or it was designed for you. Lucas Underwood: Yep. It's a choice. Listen, this is not some like buzzword gonna, it's real. It's gonna happen. It exists in your business. And if you aren't the one who set it up, somebody set it up, I promise. Wayne Marshall: And if it's, and it's just like you said, if it's this employee and there may be a little toxic, they're doing this well, then they're gonna drive and they're gonna establish. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: that culture. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Wayne Marshall: And, and it's gonna put it in a tough spot. Um, you know, one, one of the stories, I shared this story, I love to share this story because. You know, sports is very, very emotional. I mean, we watch it on tv, we see that, you know, that energy that's being done. I had the privilege to officiate football, and I had the privilege to officiate it at the college level and got up to doing D 2D one, did some D one games. And when you talk about at that level, and there's. Thousands of people in the stands. Nobody likes the official and I can remember the whole thing and it's, and it's no different than what you talk about when we deal with the five Cs. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: because we're sitting there, we're running the game. Visitors have first in goal. They didn't score because they had a holding call. It backed it up. He only got a field goal, so instead of getting seven, he got three. Well, I'm on his sidelines. We're lining up coaches over. They're just screaming and yelling because you know. We had a holding call, wasn't my call. So what do we do? I'm listening to the complaint. I confirm it. I mean, we've got headsets. We're talking. I'm, you know, talking to the umpire called, yeah, what did you see? I complain. You know, I tell the coach, here's what we saw, here's what we did. But then we talked after the game a little bit and it's like, well, what was the cause? Were we all in the right positions to see and make the right call? No d what we do every day in our shop. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. Wayne Marshall: And then if we weren't in the right positions and we had bad mechanics, you know, with the mechanics of where we need to be and the keys we're looking at all the stuff to make a good call and to make sure the game's going well, then what's the cure? Then we obviously, you know, you confirm our correction as a crew. But the key thing that started with this whole thing with this coach, he is just going on and on and I'm just listening, which to me is one of the other Cs is good communication. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Wayne Marshall: And the thing of it was, is I found something that we could agree on, and all of a sudden he tells me, he goes, man, we lost all our momentum. And I'm like, there's my point. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And I turned to the coach, I said, coach, you're right. That was a big call and you did lose all your momentum. He knew I can't change the call. We can't change the broken card. It is what it is. Yep. He wanted someone to understand, so I waited for a moment. I'm looking at him and he didn't say anything, so I turned back. I'm getting ready for the kickoff. He literally slapped me on my ass and said, I'm glad you understand, and walked away. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: What's the lesson here? He knew we couldn't change anything. Most of our customers acknowledged customer know that sometimes those cars, the bad part you got from the store or whatever it is, they get it. They want someone to understand and you know, and find that place that you never give up your position when you deal with these things that you can say, you know what customer, you're right. That is terrible. That part should not have failed. Yeah, but lemme tell you what we're gonna do exactly. Lemme tell you how we're gonna go forward. They want someone to listen to 'em and they want them to understand and find something that gives you that place. Lucas Underwood: But, but all the time, like, what are we doing? When we answer that phone and there's a concern, the first thing that we do is we start plotting in our minds how this wasn't our fault and how I need to explain it wasn't our fault. And how I need to, you know, the, the great I know great video of Simon, I know where he's talking about the airline. Right? Yeah. And he said, you, you can have two different experiences. I call up the airline and the airline representative answers the phone. I said, Hey, listen, I'm done with my conference a day early. Is there anything you can do to get me back? No sir. You have this class of ticket, there's nothing I can do. Now at this point, I think we all know Simon Sinek is not flying on any commercial airline. That's Wayne Marshall: correct. Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. But still, and he said, you know, that, that creates one experience. Whereas if they pick up and they say, oh my gosh, I, I definitely wanna get you home to your family. Let me make some, some adjustments. Oh, that didn't work. Oh, let me make some other adjustments. Oh, that didn't work. Oh, let me make these adjustments. Oh, that didn't work. Oh, hang on. I'm gonna get my supervisor. Let's see if there's anything I can do. And they come back and they say, Mr. Sinek, I'm so sorry. I have tried everything I can. We've tried multiple different options. I asked for a supervisor override. Even with that override, we couldn't do it. It's really because of the class of ticket you have. I'm sorry. There's nothing I'm able to do. He said it's a completely different experience because it sounded like you tried, right? It sounded like you understood my position and, and see, I think that's what we miss so often, Wayne, is because we don't think about that other person as a human being. No. We think of them as the trouble that's coming to bear. We think of them as the car that's got the problem. We think of them the as the telephone call. That's annoying when I have all this other stuff going on. The reality is, is what's on the other end of that phone is a human being who's experiencing stress and frustration right now. And if you were in their shoes, you might feel the same way. And so if we can at least extend some level of kindness and human understanding to them, we can get a better benefit for all. Right. And if you knew the number of times that I'm having that conversation and somebody says, I'm so sorry. You're right. I shouldn't be screaming, I shouldn't be yelling, I'm going through this. Right. And, and if we can offer a little bit of compassion in that moment, Wayne Marshall: little bit Lucas Underwood: of grace. It's not just not keeping exactly. Wayne Marshall: Extend a little grace, a little understanding. Lucas Underwood: And it's Wayne Marshall: not just about Lucas Underwood: them buying something, it's about being a good human. You know, Wayne Marshall: we, but we, we tend, when someone comes in, and we talk about this briefly, but that communica communication turns into a competition. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Because at that point, we're trying to control it. In our mind, we're not really listening. We're already thinking of our response because we're competing. And if we're competing in that, we're not really hearing what they're saying. We're not extending and you know, but at the same time, and I, I know I've shared this with my, my kids or adults now, and married kids with their own. If you want good customer service, you gotta give the person on the other side an opportunity to give you good customer service. And I love the airlines and I, I can remember I was, it was late at night. It was one of the last flights out. Everybody's tense, and here's customer stand in front of that ticket agent who would just not in it was just unrelenting. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: she's trying to do and solve this problem and she was being very calm. But the problem is the guy on the other side of the desk wasn't giving her an opportunity to give her good customer service. Yeah. All he did was just peppered away and I finally couldn't help myself. And I said, sir, if I could please. I'm just gonna tell you, if you give her a moment, she might be able to give you great customer service. Yeah. She's working at and try and I tried to and it diffused it a little, but it didn't calm 'em down a lot. Yeah. But it's like if you want good customer service, give 'em an opportunity to give it to you. And as consumers, we've gotta be able to also just as much extend that graze as you want them to extend it back to you. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, absolutely. Wayne Marshall: And we don't always think about it that way. So I always share those Ty in the stories too, because. You're running your shop and how are you when you talk to your vendors when they didn't deliver you the right, right part on time? And man, that car's not going out today. And what are you doing when you're calling them up and they're saying, you know, Lucas time, I'll try to fix it for you, but you gotta gimme a chance. Gimme an opportunity. Lucas Underwood: I tell 'em all the time, Hey, listen guys, I, I see the, the people who jump out here and they beat up software companies and they beat up coaches and they beat up everybody else, and I just ask 'em like, Hey, I just want to know if you put yourself in their shoes, if this was a client of your shop doing this, tell me what would you be on Facebook saying right now about them? Right. Yes. Well, they would be effing crazy. Wayne Marshall: Yes, Lucas Underwood: yes. Like exactly like you look like a psycho man. And I'm guilty of it, right? Like in the moment, the emotion can be high and, and I tell people all the time, emotion has no place in business. We use data and facts, and I, I'm an emotional guy. I have to watch that emotion because it will get away from me sometimes. Yep. Especially on a really stressful day. I, I have to keep it in check because if I don't, it'll run away. And, and that's another thing. When we're dealing with these clients and we've got these folks coming in the front door and they're heated and they've got things going on, we have to stay in check. Right. We have to be able to control ourselves because we have to remain in control. And if we are getting upset, if we're allowing a motion to drive us, we're no longer in control of the situation. Wayne Marshall: No. Lucas Underwood: So it's so important for us to take a step back, you know, talking about this jet who has this shop and he's got all this stuff going on. He's a, he's got a business partner and the, the business partner is really not engaged at the level he wants. This guy's over here trying to make this business work. He's trying to develop the business, make it run. You know, he's, he started this business with this belief system, right? 'cause he bought the business. It's a multi-generational family deal that he bought from the family. And now he comes in as somebody who had worked in the business for 20 years. Okay. And he's in this situation where he is saying, but this is the way we've always done business. This is what's always happened. This is exactly what we do. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm saying, okay, I understand that. But the modern automobile is not the automobile of 1970 when this business opened. You're not gonna be a situation where you can fix every single car in the same day because they're pushing to get every car out exact same day. I said, that's not realistic. And he's saying, well, but, but my business partner doesn't see it that way. So Wayne, you've been through some tough business partner dealings. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Lucas Underwood: How can he communicate back? With that business partner and say, okay, we're not in alignment. Because what I'm sensing from this gentleman right now is, is I'm really, really afraid to have these hard conversations. I'm really afraid to, to put my foot down and say, no, this is where we have to go. And, and me and you both know what happens when that happens. Unfortunately, Wayne Marshall: yes. Falls Lucas Underwood: apart, Wayne Marshall: unfortunately. Yes. Um. The first off is you've gotta be able to sit down and be honest with each other. And you gotta be able to sit at a table and say, you know, whatever, look here, here's where we are. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And we have different views. Not that we're not all wanting to get to the top of the mountain, but you know, we use that knowledge analogy. I can come up this side, you can come up that side. So we're gonna take different paths. But let's first make sure we in the same alignment of what that top of the mountain looks like. Yeah. If it does, now let's start breaking down. How do you look at it and where do you think this starts and goes? You might find out out of the, let's just for say, give argument 10 things, five of 'em. You're in agreement. Okay. Now let's talk about those five. We're not. Where do we differ? Where can we find compromise? Maybe we can't find compromise, but at the end of the day, we have to get back here and say, holistically, what are we gonna do that we know? And, and more times than not, we all know what's right. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: We know how to get and we know how to get there. And that means I might have to set my ego aside a little bit. And the most, the two most dangerous words in, in business is always and never, we never do it that way, or we always do it this way. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Because as soon as you say, we always do it this way, a new, you know, something new comes out, we test different, we fix it, different, we do something changes. And as soon as you stand on that hill of always you're gonna lose. And when you say, well, we never do it that way. We've never done it that way before. That is just as dangerous as this is how we always did it. Lucas Underwood: Putting blinders on Wayne Marshall: and you can't do this. And, and we get into this, and especially if you get into longer term partnerships, if you're not having some ongoing checkups of where our goals and ambitions are. Then you're, you're gonna have a challenge. And I know what I did and the, and I had more than one partner in the, one of the business I had. And we would get together and we would have an annual meeting. We would look at, through all the financials, we would then update all our bases, our net worths, everything we had so we could see as where that that number is going. Because we didn't get into this as a hobby. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: true. Get into this. To be successful, we made sacrifices financially and family and you know, life in general to build something bigger better. So if we can't sit down and have that honest conversation of how that looks and where we're gonna go, then I've watched too many companies. Really, really struggled. Then some other consulting work I've done and sat down that, you know, another story I share, I mean, I worked, talked to a company that wanted me to do some consulting work. They had three partners and really at the end of it, and when I, they were in Milwaukee, Wisconsin went up and we met, we visited, we went through everything and I left and I'm like, you don't need someone to help you with operations and everything. You guys need marriage counseling. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: your, your problems were so deep and rooted that you've gotta change your thought process because if I came in, I could help you on some of your operations, but it's never gonna fix this other. So you gotta have honest conversations, and at the end of the day, if the honest conversations is, and maybe you aren't gonna be partners, then. You know, it's all, it's every, any company that's been put together that's got a good operating agreement, you've got the context of what to do and how to do it. And sometimes there's a place you just gotta say, you know what, we had a hell of a run. Shake hands. Yep. Let's be friends. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Wayne Marshall: Just business. Lucas Underwood: A hundred Wayne Marshall: percent. And we're gonna take the next step. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Aunt Tanika or Aunt Nika, as we all call her, just jumped in, said, happy. I know. Happy facts over feelings. Feelings. Don't fix cars. She's exactly right. Amen. And, and you know, I'm gonna tell you right now, listen, here's the deal. If we don't have these conversations, right, like these conversations can be really scary because there's a lot of what ifs. But if we don't have those conversations, we, we often try to avoid conflict, but conflict is where we actually make progress, right? We don't grow in our comfort zone. That's not gonna happen. And so we have to edge out of that a little bit, and we have to have these discussions. We have to have these conversations that might be on hard topics with people that don't want to have them and, and listen. I'm gonna tell you this, I, I am not afraid to say this. All of this crap going on with the family business. Years ago, I would've said, this will kill me if I had to go through it. And I'm looking at it now saying, you know what? I see that this is just another challenge. And if I can learn from this, if I can develop from this, if I learn new skills and new ways to navigate, and hey, what if this ever happens and what if that happens? If I can develop from that, it makes me a master of dealing with this type of problem. Yep. So now I can go even further. I can get even bigger. I can do even more. But see, we, we, Trent, we tend to shirk away from it. We said we don't wanna, we don't wanna upset people. We don't wanna encounter that drama. We don't want to encounter that trouble. No. See, that doesn't do anything but cause bigger trouble down the road because you didn't have the damn conversation. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Lucas Underwood: Right. And that's exactly what's happening in this case. Wayne Marshall: I agree. No, it's, it's, it is so important and you know, just because you figured out and how to do it under pressure and respond and, and because you didn't develop, you know, and I know it's always that guy, the tech that bailed you out of this problem. Well, why did the problem happen? And he had to bail you out because you didn't have process, you didn't have procedures, you didn't have communication. I can go down a list of all the things. Yeah. And what do we do though? We go back and, you know, if you were the tech I'd go, man, Lucas, you, you saved my butt. You bailed me out. You worked two more hours tonight. You did this to get that car done so we can, you know, yeah, customer can pick it up in the morning, but why did we have to do that? And just because you become really good at managing crisises. That's not a trait you wanna to be. That's called being a firefighter. Right, exactly. I don wanna be Lucas Underwood: fire, I wanna get rid Wayne Marshall: of it. And, and we've all done that, but we've gotta build on it to where we end up praising, uh, something that wasn't really good. Yeah. Now it's good to acknowledge the effort, but then if we don't go back and do the analysis and figure out why and what should have happened and you know, we, as everybody talks about, you know, running a shop's like a relay race. The car comes in, you get the baton, you get it, you get it written up, you give it to the tech, it comes back to the service advisor. You do the estimate. I mean, you're, you're constantly handing that baton off to the next person in the relay race. And eventually, as you hand it off enough times, you get it to the end and you, you know, the race is over. You deliver the car back. But do we ever look at all the little things that come into, and if anybody's watched a relay race? We've all watched the Olympics. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of science of when you hand off the baton, you can't hand it off too early. 'cause if you do out of the transfer zone, you're disqualified if you hand it off too late. What happens? You're disqualified if you drop the baton. If you drop the ro Lucas Underwood: yeah, Wayne Marshall: you're disqualified. Exactly. And, and it's no different. I mean, if we just stop and take a moment and say, you know, I don't have to do, you know, this horri uh, uh, oric things to get the thing done because we didn't really think about those steps and processes and the facts of what we're doing and how we're doing to build that culture. Lucas Underwood: I asked about that, right? That was one of the discussions we had is I was asking questions, yeah, Hey, what, what is the process flow in the shop? And I, he said, well, what do you mean? And so I went through my process, Hey, we have a morning meeting. We lay out who's gonna work on what we talk about. What happens if something doesn't show? What do you go to how many hours? Right? Because I've seen a lot of shop owners go out here and dispatch 75 hours to attack. And at the end of the day they're like, well, is this not all done? This doesn't make sense. Uh, they, they didn't realize it was 75 hours. They just saw jobs and they're like, oh, I bet they can get all that done. And they just put it out there. And, and so we talked about the fact that there was no process, there was no procedure, there was no structure behind what they were doing. And they said, well, it's always been done this way. Well hold up now. Because one of the that always that, right? Well, one of the things that, that we're, we get in trouble with in that scenario is, is because he is buying this shop from someone else. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's like, okay, we've always done it this way. Or you just don't know that it was ever done differently. You just don't ever know that there was a structure behind it, that they had a plan. You just didn't see it. You weren't exposed to it. Now Wayne, you, you touched on some things that I think are really important here. Because most shop owners are visionaries, right? Mm-hmm. I've actually seen a study that said most blue collar business owners have some form of A DHD, right? And And usually fairly severe. Most I would agree. Wayne Marshall: I would agree. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Are visionaries, right? Because they have these big dreams, these big visions of what they could accomplish and how big it could be, and how great it could be, and all these wonderful things. Right? Now you've walked into a role in the institute. We're gonna call Cecil straight out here. Okay. We're not gonna let him listen to this part. So everybody cut this part out. Like if you talk and please don't share it. Don't, because I think I'm Wayne Marshall: being set up Lucas Underwood: Yeah know, right? But, but Cecil is a visionary. Yes. And, and if you talk to Cecil one time, you recognize Cecil's got huge dreams and huge visions and all of this stuff, and we're gonna do all of these things. That at times because I, I deal with this in my shop that at times can turn into noise and it can be this technician saying, oh, this is wrong. This is the problem. This is what's going on. And the advisor can be saying, this is the problem. This is wrong. This is, this isn't right, and this isn't working. And you all of a sudden stand up as the leader and you're like, oh, this noise, I can't pinpoint what's really wrong or where I'm going, or how to. Find the problem. How do I move us forward when it's all this noise coming at me? Wayne, how do you isolate the noise? How do you deal with the visionary and bring it back a touch? Wayne Marshall: So the first thing I like to do, and I'll, I'll use Cecil as an example. Um, in the early weeks of being here, we had many a conversations and one of the questions was, is, Cecil, what does success look like? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Wayne Marshall: well it looks like, you know, we, we'd start talking and we'd, you know, we'd talk numbers, we'd talk, well, it would be having this many clients, it would be having this many people coaching. It would be having this many, you know, different intensive at events and, and we'd be doing this, we'd be doing that. I said, okay, I get it. So let's talk again. What does success look like? Because there's gonna be observable actions that have to happen in between. So if this is your vision of success. What do we do to get there? So we started having even bigger conversations and that's why we now have a holding company and we're doing some other things and we're gonna have other entities underneath and other. Things we're gonna launch here in the coming months, um, into 27. But my my point is, as we look at all this, and you start to say, and it says, okay, if we're gonna build that vision, where do we start? Now, in the case of the institute, one of the things that we started have a long talk on. It's, it's, it's structure, it's governance. Do we have all the right pieces in place? Do we have all the right legal docs in place? Do we have all the right legal entities in place? Do we have this, do we have that? And we just started really working through, and it's not then there, that's, that's one side of governance. Yeah, when we talk about it, but from a business standpoint, I don't care what size business you are, you have to have certain level of governance of how you operate on your side, what your leadership look like. If you're not there, who takes over? 'cause it's gonna happen as the owner. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Who's your, who's your lead guy? If I'm not in the shop, is Lucas my lead guy? Is Lucas gonna be the one that steps up? Does Lucas have my vision? Does, does Lucas understand what that is? So when he makes decisions. He's doing the right things that he should be doing because he has this better understanding. 'cause we've had this conversation of what does success look like? Yeah. So. Break it down to, to, you know, this was talking about Cecil and the institute and what we're doing, but take it to the service advisor. What does success look like? Yeah. Service advisor's gonna say, well, that the tech did his job, right? He, you know, he put on the right parts. He did it in the right timeliness. We told the customers gonna be ready at three o'clock. It was ready at three o'clock. We didn't have a cost problem. We, you know, everything came together. That when they come in and they write that check or run the credit card for whatever the bill is. They're happy. We hand them the keys. The client gets in, the customer gets in the car. It's not dirty. There isn't a greasy hand print on the, the steering wheel. You know, all the things. I mean, the list just keeps going. That's success. Okay. How does that look to the tech? Well, for the tech, do I got all the right parts? Are they in the bins? Am I hunting for that small gasket that fell off the, you know, the parts shelf that got delivered? Because we don't have a bin system or we don't have something that the little parts and those little things are missing and he's spending 30 minutes and he's frustrated because he couldn't find that one little part. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Yeah. Wayne Marshall: He can always find the shock. It's in a big box. What about, you know, that one bolt or you know, as, yeah, I work on BMWs and that's my hobby, but you know, they always have those crush washers and the things when you do the oil change, it's that small little washer but that you can't find, never fail. That you need fail to complete the job. Lucas Underwood: Fail, Wayne Marshall: but I can't finish. But it's, let's define what success looks like and if you can define it and start breaking it into your process is it becomes observable. And it becomes observable. Then other people see it and they're like, I get it. We're very, we're very visual in this industry. 'cause you're right about that vision and how we're very visual and if we can see it and we can put it in that context, we can execute it. We can execute it. Lucas Underwood: You know, what I've found is. Is if the, if the noise gets loud, if the if, if the vision, you ask them. So if I go to Cecil and I say, Cecil, what are we trying to accomplish? And one day it's one thing. The next day it's another thing. And the next day like, Hey Cecil, what problems are we trying to solve? And every time it's a different problem. You ask Cecil what the solution is. It's a different solution every time. And I'm not saying Cecil's ever done that. Don't get me wrong. I'm just using him as an example. Yeah, Wayne Marshall: I get Lucas Underwood: it. Except for every day. No, but here's the thing. Is that if, if we get to that point, I have found that it's we don't have a destination. Yeah. And that they either don't have the destination, they don't know what the destination is, or it's not clear what their part of getting us to the destination is. It's not clear what their role in accomplishing the desired outcome is. Right? Mm-hmm. And if we, if we get to the point that it's just noise after noise after noise, and it doesn't make sense, and we're having a really hard time keeping up with it. It's because we've not clearly laid out where we're going. And, and you know, I David, years ago told me, he said, look, he said, I, I wanna build a shop for done with Care auto repair that is set up to where they have guardrails. And it says, you can't go past this and you can't go past this, but anything in here, as long as you're taking us in the desired direction, you're on the right road going in the right direction. As long as you don't go off the guardrails, I'm okay with that. Right? So here's what the guardrails look like. And so to do that. You have to develop a team of people who believe what you believe, who have the values that you have, and, and listen. That doesn't happen by just going out and hiring someone. It's hard enough to find somebody just to hire period. And, and listen, I'm gonna tell you something else. People say it's a technician shortage. It is a worker shortage, okay? Has nothing to do with technicians. It, it is really hard to find good employees right now. And it is. So you go and you bring these people in. You have to coach them. You have to guide them. That's why you are the leader. Because you have to lead them. That's your job. Yeah, but I get, we signed up to be a, a technician, but unfortunately when you own a shop, your job is to lead your people to battle. You know, Wayne Marshall: one of the, um, when, when I was hiring more people, I mean, other people are at the institute are doing more of the interview and hiring. I'm not as involved in, but my, when I was doing it, I always said, I wanna hire for. Personality and attitude, you know, other things that. People say, well, this guy's really talented. He's certified, he's an a, SC, master tech, all these things. But if he doesn't have some of the right things from that, you know, personality aspect and their value ubstance, all the others, that they could easily be very toxic. And if I could find a person with the right attitude and all the right things, I always said I can teach 'em what they need to know. We can build them up. 'cause they started with the right attitude. And if you get that out of order, you're, you're opening yourselves up for a lot of challenges. And, but it really comes down to, and we gotta also understand, and I mean we've all said that sometimes, you know, not all customers are your customers. And we've gotta be okay with that. Not all employees need to be your employees. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Wayne Marshall: And we gotta be okay with that. Understood. And the other thing I've always said, and I learned this from a really strong mentor of mine from, uh, many years ago, and he said, you know, you gotta look at bringing an employee. It's almost like. You teach 'em, you develop 'em. They're learning new skills, they're growing or whatever. The company's growing. I mean, everybody's doing what they need to do, but sometimes you get an employee, you've taught 'em every they can, they can learn. They're not growing anymore. They're not doing all the things they need to do. They don't see your vision. They knock, and you gotta ask a question, is Tom gonna help get me to where I want to go? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And if you're honest with yourself and you start saying, you know, Tom's not gonna get me there. Yeah. And then my mentor said to me, the guy said to me, he says, you gotta look at it like high school. You graduate 'em, you get 'em outta your business, you let 'em go to the next employee, promote Lucas Underwood: them to client, Wayne Marshall: to promote them to client. But you gotta let them move on. And you gotta be at peace with that because you gotta sit here and start saying, what's that vision exactly? And how do you wanna get there? And if that person isn't gonna help you get there, then you're just delaying the inevitable. Lucas Underwood: We've, we've always just, Wayne Marshall: are Lucas Underwood: we, we've, in this industry, we've held on to people because it's hard to find help. Right. And I'm gonna tell you that's one of the most dangerous things you can do is holding onto somebody that's toxic. Yeah. Holding onto somebody that's not a good fit for your organization. Now over, over the years, you get good at pinpointing who those people are. And so you get a little bit better at not allowing into the, into the hen house to begin with. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Lucas Underwood: But if you can craft and select the perfect selection of people who believe what you believe, who are on fire for what you're on fire about, right. Like the direction you want to go, and they can see that and they say, Hey, I see value in the direction we're. You can build an unstoppable team that doesn't need your constant oversight that they do it because that's what they want to accomplish, right? Mm-hmm. And if we are constantly fighting, and, and I, I've talked to so many shop owners, and then they're like, I feel like I'm in a boat and I'm trying to paddle upstream in the rapids, and I'm going as fast as I can, but I'm not getting anywhere. What do I do? And I'm gonna tell you right now, that's usually an indication that we have the wrong people on the team. Wayne Marshall: Wrong person on the wrong seat on the bus. Sometimes Lucas Underwood: you Wayne Marshall: gotta stop the bus and let 'em off. Lucas Underwood: You know, the ES it's Wayne Marshall: hard. Lucas Underwood: It is. And, and I'm gonna tell you something, I, I've been on to Cecil about this. I've been saying to Cecil four months now I want. The, the institute to pick up some of the EOS, uh, you know, kind of material and develop some stuff like that as implementers in the automotive space. 'cause I'm gonna tell you the one thing about EOS that's life changing. As we set everybody around the table and we have the hard conversations, we're forced to have the hard conversations. It's not about your comfort anymore. That's correct. It's, this is the process. This is what we have to do, and we're gonna grade one another. Oh my. That's uncomfortable, right? But the, the option of sitting here and saying, oh yeah, but Tom's a great guy, is gone now. Because if we want our organization to grow, if we want our organization to develop, gotta have the right people in the right seat. And, and sometimes we're letting the wrong people drive the dang pu. Right. Wayne Marshall: Well, and it comes back to sometimes we are rewarding the bad behavior and the things that we shouldn't be rewarding. Yeah. And we need to start being, you know, and holding, you know, coming back to what you said about, you know, the tech shortage and, and this got talked about in some of the panel discussions, that tectonic and bottom line is, is many people are saying, we really don't have the tech shortage. We have. We might have training and we might have some other things that, you know, we have inefficient shop owners who don't understand running at 72, 70 3% efficiency. That, that's a lot of hours. You're leaving on the on the counter. If you just used your, you know, we're better organized and ran a tighter ship, would you need another tech? No. 'cause you'd be used and they'd make more money. Everybody's happier. You're happier. Yeah, but I say all that, to go back to this and you look at it, is that we gotta be really careful because when we get into those situations with people, the next thing you know is you got that tech who's working next to a guy who you, you can't afford to lose, but you don't hold him up to that high bar of expectation. Yeah. Because he's too hard to replace. Yeah. So what happens is you're really good tech. Leaves Lucas Underwood: or Yep, exactly. Wayne Marshall: And this stay guy stay or they start to Lucas Underwood: lower, they start to become toxic, Wayne Marshall: but, but they leave because they can get another job. Yeah. This guy doesn't leave 'cause he can't get another job. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. We end Wayne Marshall: up with the Lucas Underwood: worst we're Wayne Marshall: everybody else ends Lucas Underwood: up with the best Wayne Marshall: and it does and it becomes a really slippery slope. So, uh, you know, all these things that we talk about is true. And it's about how are we gonna build on this and how are we going to develop and how are we gonna develop as leaders? And there's a difference of being a manager and a leader. So, you know, how do you develop to be that leader? How do you do to inspire and lift up and make a difference? So, Lucas Underwood: yeah, exactly. And, and that is Wayne Marshall: the, you get it. No Lucas Underwood: that you Wayne Marshall: get it. Lucas Underwood: You gotta have a destination. You gotta know where you're going. You have to inspire your team and help them understand why that's what's best for them. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Lucas Underwood: You have to walk them through the process of how we're gonna get there. Here's our steps, here's the steps we're gonna take today. Here's what we're working on. And then you have to motivate your team. You have to be there and, and look, eventually the system can become self-sustaining. You can get there. Yes, you can get the system to self sustain. I'm not saying you can't, but I'm saying that you're often gonna have to do the work that you don't necessarily want to do to get it there. You're gonna have to commit the time to doing the things you may not like doing. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: because so many of us love turning wrenches, but I hate to tell you, as a shop owner, your job is no longer turning wrenches. Yes. That's not what you do anymore. That's correct. You lead and inspire your people. You set the destination, you hold them accountable. Right, and see that's another big one in this industry, we don't like holding people accountable because that's uncomfortable. No. You see what your employee craves is accountability because they want to know if they're doing a good job or not. Wayne Marshall: That comes back to, again, like we said, do you wanna sit here and, and 'cause you're afraid you need two texts. You know, or whatever the number is, your top tech is working next to a guy who isn't living up to where you want him to be. And after so much of seeing the empty boxes, the trash, he doesn't clean up. He doesn't do this. You know, we, we've all seen those techs. This guy does it at a high level. He keeps his space clean, his tools are clean, his boxes organized, all the things. Pretty soon he just gets tired of this. Because you didn't do anything to raise the bar. Lucas Underwood: Yep, Wayne Marshall: exactly. So he leaves. 'cause again, he can find a job. This guy can is easy. A hundred Lucas Underwood: percent. Wayne Marshall: So he stays and now you're really paying a bigger price. Lucas Underwood: That's exactly right. You got the one guy that you didn't want to keep. That's not gonna lead your organization to the winning the winner circle, if you will. Right? That's correct. Lucas Underwood: And that's the guy that we've got in the bay now. Wayne, thank you so much. I don't know where the past hour has gone, but I sure have to like that. It was Wayne Marshall: awesome. Lucas Underwood: Thank you. So we always have a good Wayne Marshall: time. Lucas Underwood: Yes, we, we always Wayne Marshall: have a good time. Lucas Underwood: I can't wait for the next one. We've got another one coming up soon. We are gonna cover the five Cs in depth, in detail at some point here really soon. But I thought this was too important. I thought we need to cover some of this because this is something a lot of shop owners are fighting with and I, I gave this poor guy an hour and a half lecture last night. Didn't even mean to, you know, feel really bad for the guy. I'm sure. Off the phone. He's like, oh my God, that guy never shut up. But Wayne Marshall: we all need a little tough love sometimes. Lucas Underwood: That's it. That's exactly right. So Wayne Marshall, thank you so much for being here and folks, we can't wait to see you at the next a MA.

199 - The Tax Credit Most Shop Owners Miss (And How to Claim It) April 8, 2026 - 00:56:05 Show Summary: This episode explains how shop owners can use the R and D tax credit to recover significant money. Derek VanNess breaks down recent tax changes that allow credits from past years and shows how common shop activities qualify. He explains that labor and process improvement drive the credit, not equipment purchases. Many shops can receive ten to forty thousand dollars each year. The episode also highlights using these savings to build long term wealth.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Derrick Van Ness, Founder, Big Life Financial Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Introduction to R and D tax credits and industry crossover [00:02:00] – New tax law creates limited time opportunity for past credits [00:04:30] – Why most shops qualify through daily improvements [00:08:30] – Labor hours drive the credit more than equipment costs [00:13:30] – Front office systems and software changes can qualify [00:18:00] – How credits turn into real cash or tax savings [00:24:00] – Tax strategy can add ten to twenty percent to profits [00:30:00] – Shop technology upgrades like alignment systems qualify [00:36:00] – Long term investing turns tax savings into millions [00:46:00] – How to get a free estimate and take action     In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/TM7FyJlKDVo   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: My guest today is Derek VanNess. Derek is with Big Life Financial and we have a phenomenal, phenomenal amount of information to share with you today. Derek has been in the industry for quite a some time at my behest. He was heavily involved in the dentistry industry and I said, Hey Derek, you have got to come check out the automotive industry. We're having a great time over here. It is so much fun. Come check us out. And he brings with him a lot of knowledge and information that transfers between dentistry and the automotive industry. So with that, thank you Derek for being here. Good morning. Derick Van Ness: Good morning Jimmy. Excited to be here. And yeah, I'm always amazed at how similar dentistry and the auto repair business really is. Uh, if you think hygiene appointments and you think oil changes or checkups, suddenly you start to see. People come in, they do a diagnostic, you're working on cars, they're working on teeth. But it's, uh, it really has translated well over the last, last six or seven years. Jimmy Lea: Dude, that's awesome. That's awesome. And what we're talking about today is, is it, are we going into the r and d tax? 'cause that been a constant conversation that we've had over the last two or three years, but it seems like things are changing. Derick Van Ness: Yeah, there's, there's been some big changes in the, uh, research and development arena. Uh, the most people know there was a big tax bill that passed last 4th of July, and in that tax bill, it fixed the RD credits. Now, a lot of people didn't know they were broken, right? And we could go back three years. And so we were filing for people for 20 20, 20 21. But 22, 23 and 24, actually, the tax code had been changed or, or broken from the 2017 tax rewrite. Um, and people didn't know, like the credits still existed, but they weren't necessarily worth doing because, uh, long story short, it would make your income go up more than the tax credits would help. And so it wasn't worth doing now, uh, over the long term. It, it worked itself out, but it was, it wasn't worth doing for those couple of years. The tax bill in July actually fixed that. But we only have one year from that date, so this 4th of July to where we can go back using the new code and claim all of those credits for 22, 23 and 24. So that's, that's what you were talking about with expediency, is if you can get this done and in before the 4th of July, then you can get all that money coming back in one year. What broke it before was you have to take it over five years and. It raises your income. So I don't want to get into all that 'cause it's kind of technical and most people's eyes glaze over the net. Net is, um, there's an opportunity right now to go back and claim credits that you just couldn't really claim or didn't make sense to claim. And so we're trying to help as many people get that money as possible. Jimmy Lea: Nice. What qualifies the automotive industry? As an industry to qualify for this r and d tax, what is it that makes us unique or, uh, susceptible to this? Derick Van Ness: Well, I don't know if you guys know this, but you kind of have a technical industry, right? And most people, when they think of RD credits, they think of like guys in white lab coats with beakers making some sort of concoction that's gonna change the world or something. But the truth is the RD credits actually were created for the automotive industry way back in the eighties. Um, basically when the, the foreign cars came over and the US wanted to be able to compete with those, uh, Congress said, Hey, we want our people to, to experiment, to try new stuff, to be cutting edge. And we also know when you try new stuff, sometimes it doesn't work. So we're gonna give you credits to help you do that and help fuel that innovation. Long story short, fast forward to where we are today with the automotive industry, with all the changes that happen all the time. Every time you try something new and there's something called the four part test, I won't bore you guys too much with it, but if you're doing new things in your business to improve a product or process, most of what you guys are doing is process. Um, and it's based in technology. So. Computer science, biology, physical science, or engineering. Obviously you guys do a lot with computers, a lot with engineering, probably not so much with biology, but um, but anytime you guys buy new diagnostic equipment, right, which is a really common one where, hey, we want to be able to, uh, diagnose a problem. Faster, cheaper, more accurately. You know, get the solution a better outcome for the client, but also make it easier for us so we can be more profitable. They want to encourage that they being the government and so they give these credits for that. So, um, with EVs coming out, with all the self-driving stuff, with all the new, you know, features that are happening with cars, with all the technology that's allowing people to. You know, communicate from the shop up to the office and back and forth. Automated billing, automated follow up, automated tracking, all you know, all of that. Plus of course, all the innovations in how you guys are diagnosing things and, and fixing them more quickly. Uh, all of that is technology based. So if it's new to your business, it's technology based, and you're trying to solve a problem so you can get better. You're probably qualifying for credits, and if you're listening to all that going check, check, check, it's because we've done this for hundreds of shops and there are very few that don't qualify for something. Yeah. Some of them is really big. Some of them, you know, it's, it's a little more modest, but it's pretty common for shop owners to get between 10 and $40,000 a year for this, depending on the size of the shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, now, so that is, is that the moderate number? Derick Van Ness: Uh, yeah, I mean, yeah, I would say like, it seems like I have a lot of shops that are in that 20 to 30 range, you know, if you're, yeah. A million to $2 million shop. Right? Which is, Jimmy Lea: yeah, Derick Van Ness: pretty common for, for shops that are probably working with you guys. I know you guys take them to the moon, but a lot of them, when they come in, they, they've got it kind of figured out, but they're going to the next level, right. So like the guy who's working out of his garage, bringing in $200,000 a year of revenue and maybe only 50 KA profit, he's not paying a lot of taxes. Probably not worth it. Yeah. But I would say doing over half million dollars of revenue, then it starts to make sense. You're gonna, you're gonna get enough credits 'cause you're probably big enough to grow, try new stuff. You've got some employees. Um, yeah. So I would, yeah, I would say. 10 to 10 to 30 is really common. If you've got a bigger shop, you get into multiple shops, it gets quite a bit bigger. And we, we have some, you know, MSOs who get a couple hundred thousand dollars back so it, it can get quite large. Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. So you started with the technical and you totally had me, I was like, oh yeah, Pico scopes, OB two sensors, all the scopes that they get. And, and it's not just a scope, it's not just, uh. Had or tablet that, that diagnosis, they've got it for every make and model. Sometimes. Uh, certainly Volvo has their own software and Porsche has their own software and Mercedes and BMW. There's usually not an all inclusive, all in one. Uh, scope that you could combine that would test every single vehicle. Right? So, so you had me there. Yeah. I totally follow. And these, these scopes start at $10,000 a piece and every year you have to update the software. Derick Van Ness: So I, I should probably clarify this. So a lot of people think it's the cost of the equipment, it's the cost of the software. You, you already get to depreciate the equipment. Um, so what this actually is, is it's the labor, it's the man hours that go into this is much bigger. So what, before you got that tablet, what you did, what you did was you figured out, Hey, we need to figure out how to do this more effectively. What we're doing is too slow, not accurate enough, or we can't do it for. Porsches or Volvos or whatever. So we have a problem. We wanna solve that problem. So you go out, you spend time, or your team spends time looking at what are the solutions that are out there. There's different providers, there's different hardware there. What do we wanna do that's going to integrate into our shop? So all the time that goes into that, then you buy the equipment. Then you've gotta figure out how to use it. How does this work with our workflow? How does this tie in with all of our technology? So all the hours on that. And then once you actually start using it, you know, the first day you're using a new P piece of diagnostic equipment, you're not an ace, right? You make mistakes. You're figuring out how to be better, and you start figuring out how to do that. So all of that process of getting better. So it's actually much larger in many cases than the cost of these scopes. It's you're paying, you know, 25% of your your man hours to your. To your team is figuring this stuff out, getting it better. So it's a huge portion of your wages in a lot of cases, which is actually a lot bigger than, Hey, a $1,500 laptop. It's like, yeah. But the three people who use that laptop make $175,000 a year combined, and now it's like 25% of that. So we're talking about, you know, 45, $50,000 money. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. So, okay. So you had me there. I I, I, I totally follow you on the technical and, and when they're getting this new technology, they're implementing it new process procedures, they're, they've, do they need to document that? Is, is that part of the proven process for this r and d tax that they've gotta have a book of process es. Derick Van Ness: Great question if you do, awesome. But Congress figured out a long time ago, small business owners do not have a team of guys going around documenting everything, right? Like I know a lot of what you guys do is help people get their systems documented and create duplication and all of that. However, that is not always super common. So they created what's called the alternative simplified method. So there's a, what they call a contemporaneous method, which is like what? Google and all those guys use who like have teams of people that document stuff. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Derick Van Ness: For small business owners, they said, Hey, we're gonna do a simplified version, the the RD credits for dummies, if you will. And you don't have to have all that now you do get a little lower percentage than the guys who have everything documented to the, to the penny. But that way you don't have to have all of it. So one of the things. My team does, or if you were gonna work with your, your CPA or whatever is we do write down and the IRS RE requires all of this. You have to write down all the projects. What are the things that you've made better fixed? And you have to answer the questions for the four part test. You know, how are you improving a product or process? How are you re reducing technological uncertainty? Is it based in science and is it. Experimental meaning is it new to your business? Not Not to the whole world, just to your business. And you have to document that in a very specific way. Our team's able to do that in about 45 minutes with a shop owner. Just go through, 'cause we've done it so many times, we know the questions, we know the format the IRS wants to see. Yeah. So no, you don't need all of this supporting documentation. Is it nice to have? Sure. If you ever end up getting audited. The question comes up all the time. Is this a big audit, red flag? No, it is not. I mean, Congress literally said, we want you to file for this. They changed the tax code so you could file for this. And the fact that you are going back and amending those things is not a red flag because they told you, we realized it couldn't be done before. Now we want you to do it. So it's not a red flag. It, we have not seen over doing thousands of these. We have not seen any. Change in the audit rate that people get over people who don't do RD. 'cause we have a whole tax firm too, right? So, so we have good data on that, so it's not a red flag. Um, so yes, there is some documentation that goes into it, but you don't need to be doing that. I mean, if you wanna be proactive, you can be writing things down throughout the year once you start to understand this. But the reality is you don't need to have binders. I've seen the binders you guys have. Uh, you don't need, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah. The, the three inch, four inch binders of process procedures, which is good. I mean, there's no agenda here, Derek, but I'm gonna tell you, you just cut me off at my knees by saying you had this a CM alternative method, Derick Van Ness: simplified credit, the A. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So I, I, and that's, that's not the point. The point is, uh, we've got a phenomenal program here that has such great possibilities, and, and you had me for the technical, and then you mentioned. The front desk Derick Van Ness: Uhhuh Jimmy Lea: intake. What if they go from handwritten to a point of sale system that is computer based or what if they switch computer based systems, then they go from one point of sale system to another point of sale system? Does that also qualify all the service advisor time, the, the prep, the research and the the going into it as well? Derick Van Ness: As long as you're looking to improve. So if you just went from merchant processor A to merchant processor B with no changes or improvement, that's not gonna qualify. Okay. But if you're saying, Hey, we have a standalone point of sale now, we want to, we want technology that's gonna integrate that because it streamlines invoicing. We're able to do follow-ups, we're able to collect more easily, we're able to API everything together so that it works better. That would qualify, right? Because you're improving a process. So if you, same thing with equipment. If you buy the same equipment, just 'cause it wore out, that's not an improvement. It's not an upgrade. It doesn't do new things or improve. You're just maintaining. That doesn't qualify. But Jimmy Lea: okay. Derick Van Ness: To your point on the, on the front desk, I know there's so much software out there right now and AI is getting integrated into everything, right? And so as you're doing those things, there's a process of experimentation and I think we've all had, uh. AI not work very well for us. Um, so all that time that's being spent to figure it out, how do we use this effectively? Is this the right fit for our shop? Is it really helping us or is it just a distraction? All of that stuff, those are hours that count toward research and development because you are trying to improve your process and even if something doesn't work, you still get credit for the hours. It's not just for the things you get successful. They really wanna help when it doesn't work. Jimmy Lea: Oh, so, so I, as a shop owner, I could be looking into changing to a different point of sale system and decide at the very end, Hey, look, no, no, no. We've got the best process procedure at the moment. This is the best system for us. And all those 20, 30, 40 hours of research, research, research that goes towards the r and d tax. Derick Van Ness: Yes. Yes. I mean, it would look weird if you did 30 of those and none of them worked, but yes, there. There's a lot of things that people try that just don't end up working out. I mean, I've heard the horror stories, right? Somebody buys, yeah, you set a scope or something and they're like, man, this thing is just a piece of garbage. We hate it. And so they just lose, you know? They get rid of it. Right. They go find another solution. Yeah. Yeah. You get credit for all the time and put into that. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. And there's such great programs now that, uh, there's a lot that were server based and that was big technology. Here's your CDs, update your information. They would update and update software, old school, but then they got 'em onto, onto their servers in-house so people could remote in and do the updates that way. And now they're totally cloud-based point of sale systems that Sure. Yes, the, the follow up is more streamlined, the collection, the ability to text a client and get payment, text for payment, text for follow up text for reminders, emails for reminders. There's so much more that can be done now with partnering with a great point of sale system that wasn't there before or re required you as a person to go in and do so much more information, Derick Van Ness: right? Jimmy Lea: Or so much more work. But now you found a solution that helps you to streamline that. So it it's not just the technicians in the back office or the back? No, in, in phase. It's the front office as well. Derick Van Ness: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much software that goes into all of that, right? All of the billing collection organization. Obviously, to your point, AI's going in and saying, Hey, this person typically comes in once a quarter. They've missed their time, even though they got our normal stuff. Hey, let's reach out to them with something about how they've interacted with us before, like adding those kinds of things in there. There's a lot to it that's happening. It's, it's pretty cool. I hear about new stuff. Like every week. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. No, that's very cool. And I'm sure you've got stories galore of shops that came in and talked to you and, and they were able to turn around and with a few meetings, they were able to get a check for 20 or $30,000. Now do they Derick Van Ness: get Jimmy Lea: a check or is it a tax credit? Derick Van Ness: So it's a tax credit when you, when you file it for stuff that you've already, um, when you amend. Right. Already done for 22. Yeah, so when you do it retroactively into the past for 22, 23, 24, you will get a check back from the IRS. If you do it proactively, like if we do it, a lot of people are, you know, extending their taxes. They won't be filed by next week. So if you do it this year for 2025, but actually happens is it's just like depreciation or something else. You just don't pay the taxes. The difference is this is dollar for dollar. So if you get a $20,000 tax credit, you will get. $20,000 in taxes that you do not pay. It's not like a $20,000 write off, which might may save you, you know, five or $6,000. So it is dollar for dollar. Jimmy Lea: Holy cow. That is awesome. Well, yeah, shops definitely needs to take advantage of. Derick Van Ness: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, to me, this is. You know, I, I, as I was thinking through what I wanna do, one of the things that I see a lot, Jimmy, and this is maybe a zoom out one step, is there's so many shop owners that work super, super hard and they understand how to make money, but they don't understand how to keep it or what to do with it once they do. So they're, they're creating income, but they're not building wealth. A big part of what my company Big Life Financial likes to do is how do we create money for you? How do we find taxes? You would've sent to Uncle Sam, put them back into your pocket, but instead of you going and buying a little nicer wheels on your car or a swimming pool or something, let's put that money to work somewhere safely so that you can grow it. Because like the typical shop owner, you know, we all know guys, a lot of guys who are gonna retire before the pandemic happened, right? Yeah, they still haven't retired. Right, Jimmy Lea: right. Derick Van Ness: And, and there's a lot of that going on in the industry right now, and it's because a lot of these folks, and this is not an indictment, this is across the board for business sellers, um, they, they don't have a plan to translate business income into personal wealth. You need personal wealth to be able to sell the business and walk away. I know you guys help them make the business worth more, help them sell it, do all of that, which is awesome. It's just depending on that one Hail Mary pass at the end of your career is a little bit scary. I would prefer that people do things like these tax credits. Hey, we got 20,000 bucks a year. Let's put that to work and let's build a nest egg. You know, that isn't, stop drinking your coffee. That isn't, you can't ever buy anything new or have any fun. This is found money that you already gave to the government or would be giving to them. There's a ton of other tax stuff out there too. On top of this, I mean, we're typically able to save a lot of people, 30, 50, a hundred thousand dollars depending on what they're paying in taxes. This is just one really easy, in an hour or two a year. You could turn that into 10, 20, $30,000. You don't pay in taxes, so bang for your buck. It's really hard to beat. It applies to most shops, so that's why I wanted to bring it to the table is it's if you're gonna just do one thing and get it right, this is a really easy one for shop owners. Keep more money and then ideally take that money and turn it into wealth, you know, long term or, or sock it away for a nest egg. Because having every single thing you own inside of your business is scary. I think. I think of it like a, you know, before NIL college athletes, right? These guys run the laps. They did the work, they did the long hours, just like shop owners. And if they blew their knee out the senior year, they never got the big contract. And so many shop homes, work hard, do all the stuff. Maybe they just don't get it together, or something happens with their health or a divorce or a partner or something else and they don't get the big payoff and their whole life's work is lost in that moment. And listen, we wanna do everything we can to avoid that, but I believe it's really powerful to be able to do things like this set money aside. So you have a parachute if you need to, you know, if your, your plane starts burning, you gotta get out. You've got a safe way to get into retirement. Take care of your family, do the things you need to do. So this is like one component of a much larger picture, which is why we like working with you guys 'cause you guys help people to be so much more successful. Um, so they have the problems we solve. They, they're, you're getting crushed on taxes 'cause you're making a lot of money. You're, you've got a bunch of money. You don't know what to do with it, how to grow it, how to protect it, all that kind of stuff. Because you worked with the institute and you guys have helped them to create the much better problems of, I've got a lot of money. How do I protect it? How do I grow it? How do I turn this into personal wealth? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You know, it reminds me there's a, a shop, two, two gentlemen that, that own the shop and they got with the institute, Wayne was their coach. They're working and working and working with Wayne, and they finally come back to him. They're like, Hey man, um, we've got so much money now. We need a personal investor. We need an advisor that can help us invest this money. So not only have they grown the business and have that as an avenue of income, they're, what you're talking about is creating a second, a third and a fourth avenue of creating wealth. So your $1 is doing more than just one thing, Derick Van Ness: a hundred percent. I talked to some guys last week, they had $3 million sitting in a bank account. First off, that's not covered by the FDIC. So that's a little dangerous. But the second thing is they just got all this money doing nothing. If they just stuck it in a high yield savings account, it would earn 'em a hundred thousand bucks a year. Um, but they just didn't know. And they were like, Hey, we, we've, we know how to make the money. We just don't know what to do with it. And they paid taxes all year. They wrote a big check at the end of the year, and then March 15th, their CPA came and said, Hey, uh, sorry we didn't get it quite right. You gotta write another $240,000 check this year. And they don't even know why, because they, they haven't been paying attention. Listen, I know taxes are the most boring thing ever, but if people get this right in an hour a month, you can save yourself a ton, a ton of money. So it's, it's a necessary evil. Just like we don't necessarily wanna get up every day and work out and eat all the right food and do all that kind of stuff, right? But if you don't, if you don't take care of, your health becomes a problem. Taxes are a similar thing. They're just way easier than your health. Um, you gotta pay attention to 'em, you know, they're part of your business and if you get 'em right, they'll add an extra 10, 20% to your bottom line every year without extra employees. No extra marketing, no extra customers. It's just more money you get to keep RD is just a very easy part of that whole bigger process. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. So let, let's, uh, let's paint a picture of what it, what kind of a shop. Needs to come to you. Um, it sounds like a shop that has 500,000 in annual sales or more. Derick Van Ness: Yep. Jimmy Lea: That's a good starting point. Derick Van Ness: Yep. Jimmy Lea: What else was, what else are those qualifiers? Derick Van Ness: Yeah, I would say you probably wanna have paid at least $15,000 in, in taxes. Right? You can only get back from the tax credit that which you've paid in Uhhuh. And so if your shop's new and maybe you've got a bunch of revenue but not a lot of profit 'cause you're reinvesting in the shop. If you haven't been paying taxes, you may need to wait until you're paying taxes to do this. But if you're paying at least $15,000 in taxes, I would say yeah, you're, you're there. And then anybody, if you're doing anything new, right? If you've been doing the same thing, uh, with the same equipment, with the same software for the last three or four years, which is not that many shop owners, I feel like just to compete, you have to do more than that. But if you just haven't made any changes for whatever reason. Then you might not be a great candidate, but I, I would say it's still worth a conversation. You know, we usually do like a 15 minute assessment call just to make sure we don't wanna waste your time if it seems like, yeah, you're doing things that qualify, we want you to know that if, if you don't, it's like, Hey, Well's, keep an eye on this. And when you do do those things, we'll claim the credits. But if not, you know, it only takes 15 minutes to have a pretty good idea. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. What about conferences, trade shows, um, evenings of pizza and training? Do these types of events, do they count towards that r and d? Derick Van Ness: It depends. So if you're just doing like routine training, like, Hey, here's how we handle this, here's how we handle that. Not necessarily if you're bringing something new in though, like, Hey, we want to have a better way to do this, then yes, if you're going to conferences. For exactly what we talked about. Like, hey, we need to figure out a better way to solve this problem in our shop, right? We need, we need better technology, better communication from the front end of the back end. We need better diagnostics or better ways to figure out, um, how to, how to fix particular problems on particular vehicles or whatever. And you go, and part of that, the hours that you're spending there, that you're paying your guys to be there or that you're there yourself, those would qualify. The cost of the conference itself? Not necessarily. Um, but the But the man hours, yes. Jimmy Lea: Oh, so, okay. So even in that scenario, it's not the scope, it's not paying for the tickets for the conference or trade show. It's the amount of hours that your man or woman was in coaching and training, teaching, learning, because maybe they're, they're trying to discover how to better service, uh, fuel injection for. Ford vehicles or fuel injection for Chevy vehicles, if that's their focus, that's what they're going there to learn. Now they've got in three hours, four hours, eight hours of training on fuel injection for euros. That helps them in that RD tax, correct. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. Yeah. If they're learning how to make the outcomes you get in the shop better, then it's probably gonna qualify. If you're just doing routine training, like how do you change the transmission? I know I'm being really generic here, right? How do you change a transmission? That would be considered like routine training. You're not adding a new business component or improving a business component, so it wouldn't, but if you're looking at things that could change the way you do things in the shop, then yes. Jimmy Lea: Okay, so if we went, and I'm gonna use your basic scenario here, changing out a transmission. If we go to a conference trade show and we're taking the basic level class of how to remove a tire and change a tire on a wheel, and okay, this is how you remove a transmission. And we discovered that they've got a new lift because our old way of holding it by hand. And unscrewing it so Bubba can take the transmission and put it on the floor and then put it back up when it's done. So now we've got a lift, A table lift that is able to hold the transmission. Does is that in the arena of r and d, that helps our shop be better and proves our process, improves our procedures, helps Bubba not go to the hospital so much for back pain. Derick Van Ness: Yes, a hundred percent. Because at that point you're saying, Hey, we just realized we have a problem. We're way too slow at changing wheels or transmissions, right? And we're looking at, okay, these, there are lifts out there that make this a lot more ergonomic, a lot faster, a lot more efficient, less injuries, all of that kind of stuff. Then you go, oh wow, we have a problem. We need to find a solution. You may not just buy the lift they were talking about in that class. You might look at the other lifts that are out there to see what fits into space and what the types of vehicles you work with. Um, and then maybe you do go out and purchase that, and then you start figuring out things like what height, how do we do this? Um, you know, what kinds of cars is this optimal for? All of that kind of stuff. So yes, that, that wood camp, Jimmy Lea: oh man, it's fascinating. I'm it just opening up a whole new world of awesome possibilities here. I'm even thinking like alignment equipment. A lot of shops might have equipment that's 30 and 40 years old, but the new vehicles, they're all wheel drive. So being able to only align the front wheels or just align the back wheels, you need to be able to get new equipment to do all of that. Plus. Hunter's got equipment, you just are able to drive across it and it will tell you in about 30 seconds where you are in alignment or out of alignment, what needs attention. Then you pull it onto the big alignment machine. I mean, this is like $140,000 machine. Derick Van Ness: Yeah, Jimmy Lea: that is definitely an improvement over the archaic dinosaur you used to have. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. All of that kinda stuff. Right? Because it's so much faster. Hopefully more accurate, so you're able to move more cars through the shop. And so you're improving your process. Yeah, so all of those kinds of things definitely create credits for you and, and that's, that's the whole thing is shop owners just don't realize that you're already doing all this stuff, right? You have to, to stay in business. If you own a shop, I'm sure you're obsessed with how do we get better? How do we get more efficient? How do we make our numbers better? A lot of the stuff you're doing. The, the, the stuff that doesn't count is the stuff that's not based in science, right? If you're just running spreadsheets and analyzing numbers and some of that, that may not count. But every time those numbers turn into, okay, we realize a problem spot, we need to fix that, here's what we need to do. Um, if it involves technology at all, you're probably gonna qualify. So, and you'll notice, I keep saying probably, I don't wanna make promises about things, and you make a a guess. But the truth is, in today's world. Technology's changing so fast for shop owners that you are probably doing this stuff and you don't even think about it because it's just part of what you do to try and compete and get better. Otherwise, you get left behind. So you, that's why so many shops qualify. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. You have to. You have to. You have to keep reinvesting in your company, into your business. Lucas Underwood. It was just on Facebook or one of the social medias talking about how as shop owners, we work so hard in our business just to get a 4% net return. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And that's so low. We, we, we need more. We, we should be operating at a higher level. That's where the institute can help you as a shop owner to get you to that 20, 22, 20 4% net profit. I I, I'm thinking of a few success stories that happened within the last year or two. With the institute, they came in and said, Hey man, we just can't break 7% net profit. What can you do? How can you help us? Well, where do you need help? Where do we start? Well, if you're gonna talk to us about car count or average repair order or charging soft supplies, we're done. And, and they were right. That's not what they needed. We needed shop efficiencies. So we went in and met them there with shop efficiencies, help them to improve their process procedures internally. And what's the net result? Car count went up. Average repair order went up. Their efficiencies went up. They had more availability for production and, uh, record, record breaking months. Derek, they went from 7% net profit to 23% net profit in November and 24% net profit in December. Derick Van Ness: Amazing people think that stuff adds up. It actually multiplies up. Because if you have, it's like Jimmy Lea: compounding Derick Van Ness: per car, right? It it, people, it's really easy to underestimate the value of that. Um, so that's awesome work. That's what, that's what people need and that's why we love you guys. 'cause you guys help them do that. And then they have the problems that we do, we solve, which is, holy crap, why am I gonna owe $150,000 in taxes? And we're like, well let's cut that number way down. Because now you're making money. And truthfully, most people, the first year they work with with you guys, like if they make a bunch more money, they don't even realize and they're probably not saving for taxes properly, and they get that punch in the nose of like, Hey, you know, especially if you're in a high tax state, you can, I mean, if you're killing it, you can be paying nearly 50 cents on the dollar for taxes. Um, so you guys help him make it? We help him keep it. And, and that's what I love because a shop owner making 50,000 bucks a year, like, he just, he doesn't need what we do. Um, so that, that's why it's a good one, two punch. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Derek, this is taken to the next level. So what, what's, and then, uh, remind us what I know July 4th is the deadline. Yeah. There's tax code that goes in with it. What, what is the July 4th that says. If you're gonna do this, you gotta do it by July 4th. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. So if you're going to amend into the past, you know, it's not that you can't still amend your 22, 23 or 20 fours, you just have to do it in that way. I was saying was broken. So they're giving us until the 4th of July to go and amend and they call it immediate expensing, which means you get all the credits at once. Um, so there we have until that time to, it's just like in April 15th, right. If you've got the postmark. July 4th, which actually is the sixth because the fourth is a Saturday this year. Um, then I know crazy stuff. But anyway, uh, if you have that, then you can, you can have the amendment where you get your full check back versus getting it over time. Um, and, and we just think that's really important. I mean, truthfully, for the people on the, you know, on the cast right now. Knowing this is available, even if you didn't go back and get it, but just doing it proactively. You've got between now and whenever you retire to get this money every single year. You know? And if, if you're, uh, I know a lot of shop owners are 50 plus, but God, if you're in your forties, you can do this for the next 25, 30 years. And it's, if you just took this money, like I'll, I'll teach you guys a quick little math trick. If you save $20,000 a year and you invest that at 7% in 30 years, 20,000 a year turns into $2 million. Just, just over $2 million 30,000 turns into about 3,040,000, turns into about 4 million. So if we look at that and go, okay, when I get to retirement age, if I'm 40, when I get to 70, this 20,000 a year or 30,000 a year is gonna be worth two or $3 million without me having to. Cut back or, or have a conversation with my spouse about why we're gonna spend less or not enjoy life as much. You know, 'cause I'm all about enjoying life. Um, it's a huge difference and for most shop owners, it's more than they would save on their own. Like you're doubling or tripling what you were saving for retirement without having to do really anything. Right. Just save it in taxes and then put the money to work. So it's a, it's a huge win. And this is something that multiplies, just like you were talking about with, um, with each of the different metrics. When you put them together, they multiply. Same thing here. When you don't pay it in taxes, then you put it to work and you give it time, that multiplies over time. It, it can really move the needle. So. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. And you know, in, in your math equation. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Talking about 30 years down the road, if a guy's 40 right now, so that's 70. Let's back that up a little bit. What if a guy's 20, he's opening the shop, he's starting to hit 500,000 a year. He's starting to hit a million a year. If he invested, was it 20,000 a year? Derick Van Ness: Yes. Jimmy Lea: At 7% to get 2 million. Derick Van Ness: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Now imagine that he's now 50, has a couple million in the bank. Derick Van Ness: Yep. Jimmy Lea: And can retire on a couple million, or maybe he started at 20,000 a year, then he went to 30,000, then he went to 40,000. Now he's got somewhere between three and $4 million at 50 years old. And can retire and live very comfortably doing whatever else they might want to do. Or you, yeah. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Here's the math you probably aren't gonna do in your head, and if you do, I'm totally impressed. What if that same person at at 20 investing 20,000 a month, 7%, 50 at 50 years old, so that's 30 years. What if they say, Hey, you know what? I'm 50 years old, but I've still got another good 10 years in me. I'm gonna start the process, getting things ready to sell, but I'm not gonna sell yet. I've got 10 years to work this out. If he goes another 10 years, 40 years total at 7% doing 20,000 a year. Are you doing a calculator? You're not doing it in your head, are you? Yep. I'm, Derick Van Ness: I'm, I'm doing a calculator right now for you. Let me just do it. I do this stuff all, all the time. Uh, okay. So. 40 years instead of 30 years Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Derick Van Ness: Would turn into, um, instead of turning into 2 million in 40 years, so the extra 10 years, you go from 2 million to, to 4.2 million. And if you went 50 years, let's say that guy really loves it and he wants to do it, uh, all the way to retirement, then you're looking at $8.7 million. They, Jimmy Lea: and Derick Van Ness: that's just doing Jimmy Lea: 20. Derick Van Ness: Yes. Yep. An easy number. Uh, generally is once you have a sum, so let's say at 50, this guy had $2 million, let's say he just retired and just said, I don't wanna do anything more, I'm just gonna let that money grow at 7%. Your money will double. About every 10 years there's something called the rule of 72. Um, yeah. So, you know, 10 years from that, he would go from two to four, another 10 years, from four to eight. Um, so it's, it's pretty significant. Once you get the, once you get the snowball growing, it's, it's really weird. It's like a hockey stick, right? It seems like in the beginning it's really, really slow and then it gets going and there's a point, like I usually think it's like a race to a million dollars. 'cause once you get to a million dollars, if you're earning six, seven, 8%. Then even if you don't put any more money in, it's earning 60, 70, 80,000 a year to compound. Right? And it gets faster and faster. Faster. It feels like at that point, like let's say you've been putting in 30 or $40,000 a year trying to push this thing uphill, but once you get to that million, it's doing a lot more pulling and you're doing a lot less pushing. But there's no way to get to the million unless you start at the zero. So it's, it's definitely a, the best time to plant a tree was 50 years ago, but the second best time is right now, if you don't have a tree, you gotta get the seeds in the ground and get them growing, even if it's not. Life changing and, and people look at the the mountain to climb toward retirement. And you have to remember every mountain is made of grains of sand. You have to do them as you go. If you just try and climb the mountain in one leap, it's not gonna happen, right? Unless you're Superman, like Jimmy Lee here. But the rest of us, the common man, we have to do it one grain at a time. And a lot of that is efficiencies. You make more in your shop, you do all the things right? You keep more of it, you put it to work safely, you grow it over time and it compounds. So it is, uh, it is just a different skillset. It's, it's similar in the sense that you just can't build a whole business overnight. You can't build wealth overnight. Um, but it is attainable if you show up consistently and have systems in place. We have. Just like in your business, you have systems for how do we market, how do we do sales? How do we fulfill, how do we bill, how do we collect? It's the same thing. It's how do you, um, of course you make the money first. How do we save on taxes? How do we put the money to work? How do we create systems and automations that make all that as easy as possible? How do we build the team just like in your business? So we've got experts that can help us in the key areas. Um, and all of a sudden you have the same machine running in your personal life as you do in your business life. And the truth is, the, the personal wealth side doesn't take near the amount of time. Like I said, I, I think in, in an hour a week, you can stay right on top of that stuff and absolutely crush it, whereas your business can have the other 39. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. And, and I think a lot of us as shop owners, you're, you're gonna identify with Atlas and just feel like the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Yeah. And in the beginning, yeah, you're right. You are Atlas and it is the weight of the world on your shoulders. And, and at some point, you're gonna feel like CFUs pushing that rock up the hill, pushing that rock up the hill, pushing that rock up the hill. You wake up the next morning, it's back at the bottom of the hill again. Now you gotta keep pushing it up the hill. But I, I love what you're saying about that, Derek, at some point, CFUs is now chasing the rock up the hill because there's the, the, the machine, the unit, the interests, the compounding interest is reinvesting more than what you are putting into it. So that rock is rolling up the hill and you're chasing it, Derick Van Ness: but more or less, yeah, you're just helping it to push faster as opposed to move it all. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, that's phenomenal. And you know, for, for the people that come and work with the institute, for those shop owners, men and women that come and work with the institute, we're gonna help you to build your kingdom. Whether that is optimizing a single location, like the example I was sharing just a minute ago. They are optimizing a single location to the multimillions and the family is heavily involved in this shop. The success or failure of the family depends on the success or failure of the shop. Of course, we want it to succeed, so that's, that's where they are. We'll help build the kingdom. Is it one single location or is it multiple shops? You wanna have multiple shops and you want to grow that because you, you, if you go to multiple shops, you've gotta have process procedures in place and managers to reinforce it. So at some point, and maybe when you turn 50. You've got these process procedures in place where you can go around and rubber stamp it and you add it in the location every other year. You add a location every other month. These process procedures go into place and your job of working is maybe coming into the office once a week to do payroll, but then maybe you hire somebody else to do payroll. Derick Van Ness: Sure, sure. Once you can get to the point where you have an operator, right. Someone who really has ownership. Yeah. And I don't mean like like stock, but like really has taken ownership and has paid to run that for you. Yeah. It becomes an investment for you. It's no longer your identity. And this is a real shift for business owners. I'm sure you guys go through all of that, but it is a real shift from I operate this business. It is who I am, how the business is, is how I am. Um, versus this is just something I own in a bigger portfolio of companies. And it could be a bunch of auto shops, it could be shops and parts and towing and all the other related things. It could be unrelated, right? But ultimately, um, it's a real different way of looking at it as a, an asset that you own versus a business that you run that takes all your time. One is quite frankly, a, you know, a high paying job and the other is an investment. Jimmy Lea: Yep. So let's invest in your future more than a 4% net profit. Derick Van Ness: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Let's get bigger than that. And then let's compound that interest. Definitely reach out to Derek VanNess with Big Life Financial. Derek, how do people reach you? Derick Van Ness: Well, our, our website of course, is big life financial.com, but we do have a special link for, uh, institute people who want to get the r and d credit estimate. We'll do it for free. It'll probably take you in total, probably an hour and a half of time, 15 minutes for a first phone call, a short if, if you're a good qualifier. Uh, maybe a 30 to 40 minute call. And then at that point we just gather all the documents and we give you your estimate for free. Um, and if you wanna move forward, we'll, we'll take it from there. So if you go to, uh, big life financial.com/auto shop as one word dash credits. That will take you to, uh, a place where you can get a free estimate and, uh, we'll know that you came from, from Jimmy and the institute here. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome, Derek. Uh, thank you. Thank you. I, I appreciate you doing this. And, and it's not just for the institute and not just for the institute clients. This is for everybody. If you're in the automotive industry and you're listening to this, you're watching this, or maybe somebody has told you you need to watch this, this is for you, follow that. Link, follow it to Derek's, uh, big life financial.com/automotive-auto Derick Van Ness: Auto shop, dash Jimmy Lea: auto shop dash credits. Credits, plural, Derick Van Ness: yes, mm-hmm. Comes worse. You can go to Big Life Financial and you can look for credits and you'll find your way through. We just won't know that you came from the Institute Jimmy Lea: or Derick Van Ness: from Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Well, and, and, and that, and that's okay. It doesn't matter. We are here to help build the industry. You know, the, the motto with the institute is, better business, better life, better industry. The better we can help you in your shop and in your business to be the best business that you can possibly be, the net result is you will have a better life. You'll have more opportunities, you'll have more freedom to be able to. Be with the family, to have dinner at home every night of the week to go to the kids' plays, to go to their races, their cheerleading expeditions, whatever it might be, you'll have a better life. And the net result of that, and working with the institute, we think is going to be a better industry. So we're gonna help build this industry to be the best it could possibly be. I love it. And guys like you, Derek, you are really helping us to move that needle. Derick Van Ness: Yeah, I, I believe in a big life you're talking about a better life. I would say those are the same things. 'cause that's the real game. It's not necessarily just about more money. Only if that money serves you having a better life. Right. If you make more money and your life isn't as good, I would suggest maybe you trade back. 'cause the better life is the goal. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. The better life is the goal. We all want to have a better life. We all wanna have a better existence here on earth. What does money provide more options. Derick Van Ness: Yep. More options, more choices. I totally agree. Yep. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Well, that's awesome, Derek. Thank you very much. Brother. Any final words of wisdom to depart upon our automotive shop members? Derick Van Ness: Yeah. You know, if you're, if you're on the, the fence about these credits, I think it's at least worth a phone call. It, it has transformed a lot of people. It really opens people's eyes. I'll, I'll just let you know, if you do an RD credit estimate, a lot of times we already have your. Your data. So we'll do a free tax review as well and look at everything. Um, but the, but the big thing is whether it's with us or with someone else, taxes are worth figuring out. They don't have to take a ton of time. You just have to find the right people who will, who understand this stuff that can help you. For most shop owners, it's worth at least five figures a year for the bigger shop owner, six figures a year. This is, this is real money. That goes straight to the bottom line. And you know, Jimmy, you're talking about shops that have a 4%, 7%, 10%. Like if you can just take and cut taxes out of a ton of that, you can probably almost double that. Um, and the shops that are doing, you know, 20, 25, 30%, obviously it's massive. So, uh, this, this is an important thing to figure out. I know it's not exciting. I know nobody loves the IRS. You only have to figure it out once. It doesn't change that much year to year. So once you know it, you get the benefit for the rest of your life. So whether, like I said, whether it's talking to us or your existing people or someone else, this is a game worth figuring out because it will pay you every single year. Jimmy Lea: So now I have a final question here, Derek. And, um, I'm, I'm scratching my head here on this one. So. CPAs are, are you guys, CPAs, are you replacing the CPAs or are you an addition to a CPA? Derick Van Ness: Great question. So we, when we do the RD credits, we let you work with your CPA on that. We do, I do own a part of a, a, a tax firm, right? Where we file taxes, we do tax strategy and all of that sort of stuff. We're not trying to take you away. If you've got a great CPA. Great tax preparer. We're not trying to take you away, but if we find out or you find out that, Hey, I really do need some help with this. Maybe the person you have isn't the best fit. Maybe they're not super proactive, maybe you've outgrown them, then that is something that we can do. We have a firm that does that. Um, so that wasn't my point to promote today, but Jimmy Lea: yeah, Derick Van Ness: we do have that. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So, so, uh, you could be the CPA for an automotive repair shop. But certainly you would work with their CPA 'cause. I, I think a lot of CPAs don't understand the r and d tax. It's, right. They're more, I, I've seen a lot. Not the CPAs that we work with. Kaizen is, is phenomenal. We work with them really well. They know the automotive industry and they do a great job. There are other CPAs that are really glorified bookkeepers and r and d tax is so well outside of their realm of comfort. Derick Van Ness: Yep. Jimmy Lea: They don't, they don't know anything about it. So automatically, oh, it's a red flag. Don't do it. You're gonna get audited. No, you're not. You gotta have business built on. Derick Van Ness: Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't want to ever tell you you won't get audited 'cause you can get audited for anything at any time. But we have not seen it cause audits. Um, and I, you know, I know Eric over at Kaizen, actually I think I was the one who even introduced him to the RD credits. When they looked into it, they were like, holy cow. This is legit. So I think they do it for people. So if you work with them, you can definitely ask them, um, about it. We've done it for a lot of people who work with Parus, uh, which is another automotive group, right? But at the end of the day, you just need someone who's proactive looking at these things on your behalf, if you're being the tax pro in the relationship. It's probably time to upgrade, right. Just being honest with you because you're not even a tax pro. So, uh, you know, but I think a lot of shop owners are underserved. Like you said, they've got someone who basically is what we call a tax recorder. Glorified bookkeeper may not even be telling you what your books are saying. They're just keeping them. So you have a way to file taxes. But ultimately it'd be great if you had someone who was meeting with you at least a couple times a year proactively telling you. What's going on, how much you should be saving, what to look for, um, how to create opportunities and, uh, makes a big difference over time. Especially if you make a lot of money. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. For sure. It sure does. Well, that's awesome. Well, thank you Derek. Really appreciate it. Appreciate you being here and sharing with us the r and d tax. Uh, I think shops everywhere need to take advantage of it. It's a 15 minute phone call. Give Derek a call. See if he can do something for you. If he can, great. And if he can't, that's okay too. At least you know you're on the right path. Go in the right direction, doing the right things. Derick Van Ness: Yeah, you Jimmy Lea: gotta explore. That's phenomenal. Yeah. Well, my name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and the information you've heard today, if you've found it interesting, if you found it enlightening, if you found it compelling, we do a lot more than just. Phenomenal webinars and podcasts. We work with advisors, managers, owners. We work with you to help you optimize your business, to build a better business, a better life, and a better industry. So if you find this information interesting, get out your smartphone because in about 30 seconds you're gonna see a QR code come on the screen. Scan that QR code. One of my guys is gonna reach out to you. And have a conversation. And I was just reminded today, Don was like, oh, hey. Remember that one guy? We were talking to him? Yeah. And he was doing like 80, $90,000 a month in in revenue. We gave him some advice. He told him one thing, Derek, do this one thing, and it increased his business by $30,000 the very next month. And the guy's like, oh my gosh, that one thing. It made all the difference. Phenomenal. Absolutely. Everybody needs to do it. Scan the QR code, meet with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. Let us help you to make your next $30,000 from doing just the one thing. Derick Van Ness: Amazing. Jimmy Lea: Did it cost him anything except for our phone conversation with Don and, uh, you know, yes. Did he join the institute? Yes. Yes he did. And he has grown exponentially since then. So let's do it and let's do it together. Derick Van Ness: Let's do it together. Jimmy Lea: Thank you so much you guys. I'll talk to you again soon. My name is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you're listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today, Derek Vanes from Big Life Financial. Derek, thank you very much, brother. I appreciate it. Derick Van Ness: You got it. Loved it.

198 - Overcoming Set Back to Go From Farm Kid to Shop Owner April 8, 2026 - 00:58:14 Show Summary: Peter Bailey shares his path from farm life to owning Limitless Garage in Iowa. Early setbacks redirected him from the military and law enforcement into automotive. He built skills through hands on work and formal training while learning leadership in a fast paced shop. His focus on culture and people shaped how he leads today. He started his business in a home shop and grew into a full facility. He believes hiring for character matters more than experience. His story shows grit faith and steady growth.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Peter Bailey, Founder and Owner of Limitless Garage Show Highlights: [00:02:45] – Peter discovered he loved fixing equipment more than working livestock on the farm. [00:09:20] – His first shop job started with labor before earning the chance to repair vehicles. [00:13:40] – He learned attention to detail prevents mistakes and builds strong habits. [00:14:45] – Safety work like brakes and suspension must be done right every time. [00:19:10] – He pursued leadership after seeing limited growth at his first shop. [00:28:10] – Running a fast paced oil change business became his leadership training ground. [00:33:10] – Leadership means building culture that helps people grow and succeed. [00:38:20] – He left his job and launched Limitless Garage from a shop at home. [00:42:10] – He faced zoning issues and rejection before securing a commercial location. [00:47:10] – The technician shortage comes down to culture not pay or skill level. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello friends. This is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge Podcast. My guest with me today is Peter Bailey. He is the owner and operator of Limitless Garage in Des Moines, Iowa. Peter, how the heck are you, brother? Peter Bailey: I'm doing well. Thank you for having me on. How are you? Jimmy Lea: Oh, fabulous. Thank you very much. It's a beautiful day outside, beautiful day. If we could be outside, it would still be a beautiful day. Peter Bailey: Is it cold? Where you, where you at? Jimmy Lea: Uh, yeah, I woke up, it was 19 degrees this morning. Peter Bailey: Yeah. That's chilly. Yep. It's similar around here. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys have snow here this last week? Peter Bailey: Not this last week. Well, a minimal amount and it didn't stick very long, so it's all gone at this point. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We had a few inches and it was gone the next day by lunch. Uh, anywhere in the shadows it's still there, but otherwise it's, it's pretty much gone. Peter Bailey: Yeah, I, we had a small snowstorm, like a little blip come through on Saturday and it was like right as I went to the shop to pick up actually one of, uh, my pieces of equipment to take it back to my home. And I had my boys with me. And so anyways, it was completely clean, but by the time we got it home, I had to wash again. So that was frustrating, but so good. Jimmy Lea: So what is a little snowstorm in your book? I'm new to this cold area. I grew up in Las Vegas. I lived in St. George, Utah. I'm a desert rat, so this climate change is new to me. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: What is a small snowstorm in your view? Peter Bailey: Oh gosh. I mean this, when I, when I was saying with snow, small snowstorm for this, it lasted all of an hour and a half. And it was done. And so the amount of snow left on the ground was, I mean, it was there, everything was white, but at the same time, we're talking like half inch at best. So it's not much. Jimmy Lea: No, that's not much at all. You, you barely hit mock three, driving on the street, having the stars come at you like Star Wars. Peter Bailey: Yeah, it, it was heavy snow like coming down, but the temperature, it was still warm here on Saturday, so we were like 35 degrees or so. So by the time it hit a lot of it was melting anyways. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well let, let's talk automotive, let's talk the industry. Let's talk, uh, automotive aftermarket. Want to start Peter, at the beginning? How did you get into this industry? Peter Bailey: Yeah. Um, so I've been in automotive now for 15 years at this point. Um, I started out actually wanting to go into the military, and so I had gone through like. All of my testing through my asvab, through my maps and everything in preparation to go into the military, into the Marine Corps, but then was denied at the end due to a heart mur. So no process went through, tried to get a waiver for it, didn't work, and by that time it was like six or eight months of a process and I was like, I'm not doing this again. I gotta see what plan B is. And Plan B was, I really enjoyed. Automotive. And so I was, um, yeah, I was sucked into there next, so it was going to find a shot to work for and uh, that's where it started. So I worked. Jimmy Lea: So, so where did you, I mean, how did you get, how was even automotive a plan B for you? Peter Bailey: That's a good question. Growing up, um, I grew up on a hobby farm and I really enjoyed tinkering on small things. And now almost Jimmy Lea: the ranch. Almost the farm, Peter Bailey: yeah. Almost a farm. Yeah. So like we had small tractors, we had, you know, trucks, stuff like that. Right. Dad still worked his normal eight to five job and everything, but we, we would do everything to bailing hay, you know, and livestock. And so I enjoyed working on the stuff around the farm and actually, of all people, I was thinking of being a farmer initially. None of my family was. And then one day we're sitting at the supper table and my sister looks at me and I was probably 16 at this point, and she goes, Peter, you don't really enjoy going out and doing all the livestock chores, but what you do seem to enjoy is fixing and maintaining all the equipment debt has. I said, well, you're right. I hadn't really thought about that, but I do find enjoyment in that. So that kinda sparked from like 16 years old on. Then I was like working in small engine shops, so like lawnmower shops, dirt bikes, stuff like that. All the way up until I turned 18 when I moved out, and that's when the whole Marine Corps thing happened. And then it's been history since, Jimmy Lea: right? The Marine Corps thing happened and then didn't happen. Peter Bailey: Yeah, it's gone. Jimmy Lea: It's gone. Yeah. Well, and I have a daughter that's a Marine. Peter Bailey: Oh yeah, Jimmy Lea: yeah, yeah. So she's in Hawaii right now. Um, and then my grandfather, similar story to you. He, his was not a heart mur. He had shaky knees. They called him, uh, crazy legs in high school. His knees were really loose. So here he got his draft notice and he was heading off to war. Oh, wow. And he had to report, so he sold his business. Peter Bailey: Oh, wow. Jimmy Lea: Showed up. On whatever showed up. And, uh, they, they gave him the physical and by the end of the physical they said, uh, thanks, but no thanks. Here's your ticket. Uh, you can go, you can leave now, you can Peter Bailey: go Jimmy Lea: home. Peter Bailey: That's terrible. That's a way worse story than mine. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So he, he, uh, he had sold his business. He, he went back and, uh, opened up another dry cleaning business, uh, and his wife had a daughter. Like, I mean, he was going off to the war and it was not a good thing. But anyways, yeah, that, yeah. Lucky for him. He had shaky knees, crazy legs. Okay. So, so on the farm, you're working on everything, you're, you're really enjoying the mechanics of it all. Yeah. Thank heavens for the women in our lives that can look and see and say, Hey, you know what? You really light up when you work on. Cars, trucks, tractors, lawn mowers. Peter Bailey: Yep. Yep. You got it. Jimmy Lea: You're, you're swearing at these animals. What's going on? Peter Bailey: Just about, yeah, you're actually not too far from that. 'cause even now I got kids that wanna raise animals and we live on a small acreage now, and so like I've got some hard nose. I'm not raising that type of anil and sheep is like at the top of that. I'm not gonna raise sheep any longer. So anyways, that's the side story. But at the same time, you're right, a hundred percent. I did not enjoy the livestock as much. Jimmy Lea: Okay, so on the sheep thing, my brother is in Sacramento, California. Cameron Park, he has goats. Peter Bailey: Oh, okay. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And sheep. Not sheep, I guess you can't call him sheep. Uh, dirty Fred is, is the, the alpha male. And then there's all this, this harem that he has. Uh, and they have all these little baby. The baby goat are so cute. They're absolutely adorable. Peter Bailey: And that's what everybody likes and they want, right? That's what my wife, Jimmy Lea: your Peter Bailey: daughter, right, Jimmy Lea: until they get bigger. And then you're like, nah, no, we're done. But he also goes through a phase where he'll raise chickens. So he has, he has 12 or 13 that he keeps for the, the normal for the good. And they lay the Easter eggs, the blues and the greens. Peter Bailey: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: But he'll raise these, uh, these, the, the white chickens for the meat, a meat chicken. Um, and, and then they go through a whole food processing thing. So for you, that's a hard, thou shalt not. Peter Bailey: No, just certain animals. So don't get me wrong, I will still ra especially, I got kids now, I got four of 'em. So like I'm all about, I want the experiences for them. So we raise chickens, we raise ducks. Uh, my wife is all about that. I have to figure out how to keep everything clean, build it all, and then just maintain it and then she figures out what to put in there. So yeah, somehow we ended up with 30 chickens and a couple ducks and yeah, it's not a small thing anymore. Jimmy Lea: Oh, he's not a small thing. Oh, that is so rad. He has a, uh, oh, what does he call it? Uh. Oh, it's like a clucking to, it's a chicken, chicken chickshaw that he can move around the property. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: And he has this, uh, electric fence that goes around with the, the chickshaw and the chickens are scratching the ground and fertilizing the ground and, Peter Bailey: yeah. We used to refer to 'em as chicken tractors. You'd move 'em around, you'd pick it up and you pull it. You know, you move 'em around. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yep, Peter Bailey: yep, Jimmy Lea: yep. Peter Bailey: Very familiar. I don't have that for mine, unfortunately. They are confined to, they have a nice outdoor run in pen. It's very large. However, I like my yard as well, and so everything that's going to be kept will be kept nicely, so they would currently stay off of it. So yes. Well, Jimmy Lea: there you go. There you go. We'll have to trade chicken stories. Next time we get together, make sure I tell you about Ru Ru from a different brother, Ru Ru Rooster. Yeah, that's a story for another day. So here, working on the tractors, you are working on the farm. The Marines doesn't work out. Where's the first shop that you step into that you're now cutting your teeth and getting paid? Not just food room and board, but this is real money. Peter Bailey: Yep. So I started working full-time at a local independent shop here in Des Moines. Um, and I, I actually was in the process of applying for the Marine Corps when I started this job with them. And I knew I liked automotive enough to be able to get a job in it, depending on how long it took me to get into the Marine Corps. So I took it, moved to Des Moines from Pellas where I grew up. So I moved from Pella to Des Moines, which is about an hour. Yeah. And got a roommate and. We got our first apartment and then I started doing this, um, for 40 hours plus hours a week. Right. Working automotive. And when I say that it was, take that with a grain of salt because one of my first jobs when I started on site that. Morning. I remember the first day I started the shop owner had me filling the concrete in the parking lot with expansion foam and everything, uh, for all the cracks, expansion joint cracks. So I filled foam and caulked like all of the cracks in their parking lot with expansion foam and joint sealant and everything. And, um, I was power washing like the outside of the building. I just remember that summer I was very tan and very burnt by the end of it, but I did, that was my intro into this is what I'm gonna do. And then that escalated into once I not proved myself, but at the same time, once I was able to do this well. Uh, I started going into uh, do oil changes right? Then it starts to go on to, I'm gonna do brake suspension, stuff like that. And in short order then, yes, it kind of just started to fly by at that point in time. 'cause kind of back to the farm thing. My boss figured out pretty quickly, Hey, I can hand Peter a almost anything. 'cause I did everything from the caulking of the expansion joints to, I was fixing tire machines for him to, I rebuilt a carburetor on his 1950 Ford truck that he had out front for show to, like, I was kind of moving through everything at that point in time. And then at that point he's like, all right, you're gonna start working on cars. Here's what we're gonna do. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. So, and, and it's true. The, the farm boys, they're, they're hard workers. They're smart. They figure it out that there's usually not a manual or a guidebook, but they figure it out, right? Peter Bailey: Yep, yep. You got it. Jimmy Lea: So here you are. He, he's handing you all these jobs to test your, your, your muster to see if you're gonna survive. Are you coming back tomorrow or are you done? Peter Bailey: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And you kept coming back, so Peter Bailey: Oh, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Congrats to you for keep coming back. You went from facility maintenance. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: And, and then into the automotive industry. Peter Bailey: Yep. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And, and that's awesome that you did. I mean, what a, what a road in. So here you I, did you have any formal training or is this still all hard knocks? Peter Bailey: Yeah, I had zero formal training at that point in time. The only closest formal training I would've had would be working in a mower shop on like small, like lawnmower engines. And I got to work next to a tech that did that. But, so like the fundamentals, but everything else I had learned just from trial and error or watching people or being willing just to talk, go talk to people and ask questions. Jimmy Lea: Dude, that is, that's amazing. So that is awesome. Alright, so how long are you at this first shop? Peter Bailey: Yeah, I was there nine years. So I spent a good stint there. Um, and I went from where I told you all the way to by end of year one I was entering into like I could do. Suspension, brake oil changes all your light maintenance and suspension work, um, to alignments. And at that point I was like, Hey, um, I'm ready to dive into this full fledged, like what can I do next? And then at that point in time, I had found General Motors, their ASEP degree through our local college. And um, at that point I reached out to them and. Wanted to go into the program there. So normally there's a waiting list, at least here in Des Moines. There was a waiting list at that point in time. It was what, 2012 at that point? Some 2012 or 2013 at that point. And there's normally a waiting list. So I remember going in and meeting with the director of, um, that, of the automotive, um, education there. And he. Walked through everything with me, and at that point I'd worked a year in the shop and this shop was AC Delco affiliated already, so I, I already had the in with that so my shop could sponsor me and I go to school. So I immediately took up that and started the very next semester and dove in on that two year degree. And then I did my, I did my GM ACEP degree at that point from, and I graduated 2014. That would've been, um, from asap. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. That's phenomenal. Yeah. What in, in that first year or in that first two or three years that you were working at this first shop? Mm-hmm. What's something you learned there that still rings true today, that's advice that you stand tall on, that you learned in that first year? Peter Bailey: That's a good question. Um, I would say that. The thing that I took away the most was attention to detail on everything that I did. So what really quickly started happening was whether it was pulling apart major repairs or whether it was even minor stuff, everything that went back together, you will. I would catch mistakes before they ever happened. If I could pay enough attention to detail throughout it as soon as I started just going into, um. Just automated repairs and I'm not thinking about it, then mistakes start to happen. So it was that, along with, I worked next to an older mechanic there and, um, he left during the stint that I was there the whole nine years. But during the beginning of it, one of the things that rang true to me that he taught me was, um, when working on vehicles, anything that has to do with an, let's say specifically in the engine compartment. If something's messed up in there and it breaks while a customer has it really realistically, one of the worst things that's gonna happen is unfortunately they're stranded on the side of the road, right? Let's say the engine completely quits and fails. It's not gonna blow up and cause immediate harm. However, they'll have to get off to the side of the road. However, if you're working on suspension, tires, anything like that. You can't mess up, that's like a no go because you've got people's lives at risk at that point in time. So brake, suspension, tires, anything that has to do with that. So everybody that I have through the shop at this point in time, all my text is basically continuing to ring true with, of like when anything leaves here, it cannot have an issue with any of those components. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. Yeah. The attention to detail, especially in those critical areas, break shocks, strut. Tires. Peter Bailey: Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: It is huge. Yeah, absolutely. That's, you don't mess around there. So when, when you have your technicians working on cars and they are, are, are, um, let's see, tightening down a, a tire or wheels onto back onto the car and they use their torque wrench, do you have a second person come over and qc their work to make sure that it's torqued to the right? Peter Bailey: We have an initial phase where we will do that. So like in the first, depending on the length of the technician being there, within the first six months, like I had a very new technician that we had here that was 18 years old. Everything we called qi, so quality inspections, everything that left and even before we started vehicles, after oil changes, we would qi his work. So nothing started without oil. Nothing's left an oil filter off. No wheels are not torqued to your point. So we have those put in place, but then a couple of the other, um. Processes that we have in place, especially even for the more knowledgeable techs, including myself, is that if anybody's doing tires, it's a no-go. You don't ask questions at that point in time. You go come interrupt people at that time. You have to complete that part of the repair before you can move on and do anything. So you can't leave, uh, torque wrench, stuck on a wheel and go do something else. No. You complete that before. So anybody that comes back should have a question in their mind. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. That's so important. So important. Okay, so you're at this shop for nine years. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Working your way up. You got your, uh, AC certification. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Then what, what's next? Peter Bailey: So through that was GMAC to your point. I did a, my a c exams as well. I worked then for about five, the five years after that, remaining in that shop, and it worked up through heavy repair. Pulling motors out, transmissions, all the way to then a lot of dag. I ended that, my career stint there with a ton of diag. I was helping to teach some dag in it, um, as well as, um. Help assist in the office as well. So I did a lot then moving into service advising. So I learned how to service right? I learned how to talk to customers in this job. I learned how to open and close the shop. I learned how to do everything I could while there. And um, I had the opportunity at the end then to kind of talk, discuss with the owner where the shop was headed and what his intentions were and. When I got to the end of that, the stint there, really what just pushed me to end up finding another w another job was that hey, he had his plans for the shop, where they wanted, where he wanted to go, staying in the family. And I respected that. That was great. Um, it just was, that was the end of my, where I wanted to go with that section of being an automotive tech. I knew that wasn't the end for me, so I needed to find what was next. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats. I mean, that's, and that's a hard conversation to have with somebody to say, Hey, uh, what's the plan with the shop? And to find out, um, it's gonna stay in the family. But congrats to you for having that conversation. There's so many that don't. Peter Bailey: Sure, yeah, that's true. Uh, there's a lot of people that don't. Right. But then at the same time, I don't, nobody wants to overstep their boundaries. So you have to have it in a respectful way, right? When you're gonna have that conversation. Everything is open, I think, for a question. However, you have to respect the answer you're given. And then that was pretty much my takeaway at that point. It's like, Hey. That's great. You have a plan. I'm, I'm probably not part of this plan, and for that reason, I hopefully respect on both sides and I'm gonna move on. And my next mission at that point in time was I wanted to enter leadership. Like my ultimate goal was I just wanted to lead. I wanted to know how to lead people. How to make processes, how to get to the next stage. 'cause at that point, actually I was still, I still wasn't interested in owning a shop as much as I was in leading, managing, and, uh, being able to help make calls on a higher level at a shop. So my next venture or my next stage was anything that had to do with leadership and of all things that I wanted to do initially I took a, like a 180 again and I went to, I want to think about law enforcement. I wanna do law enforcement, or I want to do something that has to do with that. Um, 'cause I wanna learn how to help others, but at the same time lead a different group of people. And, uh, so I started that venture. I was still at that shop. I let the owner know and he was, he was just fine with it. It was like, Hey, I'm gonna look for my next. Career path and I think it might be in law enforcement. And I spent almost two years, 'cause that was, that would've been a seven year mark for me. But I spent almost two years trying to get into a law enforcement agency somewhere only to keep getting denied for, and I was never given a reason, to be honest, each time 'cause it's. It can be fairly political, but at the same time, some of it also can be, uh, just the needs of that agency at that time being. So, like in Des Moines, we've got multiple different departments that I'd end up going to and um, I tried probably four or five. I ended up actually ending that stint of looking. When going through the Border Patrol. So I ended the stint by going through the border patrol's process all the way through being interviewed by Homeland Security, going through multiple polygraphs with them and everything like that. Um, at the end, again, I was denied for I again, and a reason that I never got a good answer for. Um. I'm a guy that I think likes to follow up, but at the same time I'd call, you know, Hey, gimme some feedback. What can I do differently? 'cause I'm sure this is what I want. And uh, it was very vague, uh, gray areas. And so I'm a Christian at that point in time. I'm like, there's gotta be something different because I'm getting shut down. There's something out there that has a higher. I have a higher calling for. So, Jimmy Lea: amen. Amen. And I, I fully agree. I understand. Uh, God is in charge and this is his way of saying, all right, da da Peter, stay here. Stay here. Wait. Nope. There's gonna be something better. There's gonna be, gotta trust me. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And in the moment we're thinking, what the heck? What am I doing wrong? Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: How come I'm being denied? I mean, two years is a long time. Peter Bailey: It was Jimmy Lea: for you to be going down this path, having a goal, seeking this goal, pursuing the goal, and be denied the goal. Peter Bailey: Yeah, it felt like eternity, obviously when you're in sitting in it. And I had, I mean, I have the most supportive wife ever. 'cause at that point in time, we had a small kid who was less than a year old, our oldest at this point. And um, anyways, I remember driving to Minnesota with them to go like, Homeland Security, you have to drive. Like Missouri, they had a headquarters, Minnesota, they had a headquarters. I had to go between those. It's not long drives, like five hours or so, but she'd come with me on some of those. We'd stay overnight in hotels, we'd, we'd do the whole thing and then I'd get. I get knocked down again. It's like, all right, am I gonna do this? And I try a couple more times until at the end I was like, ah, this is, there's something else. I've gotta try something else. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Okay. So, so you finally throw up your hands and you say, all right, Lord, you're in charge. I get it. Where do you need me? Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: So what's next? You, you're denied by the border patrol? Peter Bailey: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Did they, did they ever say, oh, by the way, it's your heart murmur? Peter Bailey: No. I, I had so many, so Border Patrol was one of 'em, and I ran into some issues, which I thought was going to be that. Um, but I remember calling in, they. They had at that point in time, they had what they called an expediting program. And it was 90 days compared to six months. It was done in 90 days. And, but you had to be on the call at that point twenty four seven to do whatever they asked you to do in the next step of the process. And so I immediately elected to do it. Okay. I was like, do it. I'm gonna do whatever you asked. So I remember getting the call at 8:00 PM one night and they're like, Hey, we have an O opening all of a sudden for your medical exam, but you have to be onsite 9:00 AM tomorrow. And you have to be able to be off. Most of the day. So I call my boss up and I'm like, Hey, I know this is the last minute. Can you make this work? If not, I'm gonna have to find a different way, but they're gonna drop me from this program. And he said, all right, we'll make it work. And I said, all right. So I headed out, I go to this medical exam and they find the same thing. The heart remember thing, right? And they're like, oh, you haven't had an exam in the past six years on this. We need to have an exam. And so at that point, like I'm talking to this doctor who's doing it, and like, I'm going through all these loopholes. I'm like, have you tried this? Have you thought of this? Have you done this? I remember leaving the exam office running to my doctor or establishing a new doctor nearby that I had met a couple times, getting a good relationship with him within the course of a couple hours, asking him how quickly can we do another assessment on me? He's like, okay, within 24 hours we can figure this out. Like. I did an extensive amount of just hopping around all to bring it back to them. I made it through the medical part, but to that point, like the amount of loopholes that I had to jump through just to try to get to the ending where I did it was. Amazing. It was crazy, but it was a lot of just making, it was making friends really quickly and starting to ask for favors. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. There. Yeah. You're having to make a lot of friends very quickly in that situation. Peter Bailey: The Border Patrol, I would say that was an interesting one that I got sent on the track of in from the automotive industry. I talked to, I was at Vision Conference in Kansas City and I talked, I remember going to, uh, it was, I went to a class with my boss at that time it was called Robots on the Road, and it was all about autonomous vehicles. And I talked to that person at the end 'cause they were somehow affiliated with Homeland Security at that point. And I talked to him about my interest and he said, have you thought about border patrol? Because if you went to the coast anywhere and you had to. Be able to, um, inspect vehicles coming in off the coast on ships and stuff. With your automotive industry, you'd be able to tell if there's anything abnormal in the vehicle, if people are trying to smuggle things, anything like that. And you could be valuable for that. So that sent me down the border patrol thing and I was fully committed to, if they wanted me, I was gonna, I was gonna move, I would go out to whatever coast I needed to to make this work. But yeah, it was an interesting one. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, there, there again, you got the maker standing up there saying, whoa, hold on. Peter. Peter, Peter, Peter. Right here, right here, right here. I I, we've got a better path for you. So you going through all of this to get to the point where, what's next? Peter Bailey: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Now what You, you, but you're coming home from the border patrol final denial. Peter Bailey: Yeah, I went, so I was told no. Um, yeah, there's a backstory behind that, but I was told no, and immediately I remember. We went to church the next Sunday, or two Sundays after that. And I had a guy that I had met a couple times come up to me and he, he was, he's a partner at, um, he is a partner at a business here in town and he does very well. But anyways, he came up to me and he said, Hey, I know you're in the automotive and I know you had these goals. Um, have you considered reaching out to one of my friends that I know that owns a. He owns, he's in the automotive and he, he was very vague. He's like, he owns, um, a shop here or a couple shops here. And I know that the son who was one of my employees in the past is looking to come back, be the CEO for this company. And he needs good people. I know. And I remember he, I tell him, yeah, I, I'd be interested. It's an automotive again, but let's do it. I just want something in leadership. And he said, okay. So I remember standing there actually with my family and he is a very charisma guy. He's, he's awesome. He's all high energy and he is like, Hey, uh, let me take a photo of you guys real quick and I'm gonna shoot a text over to my, my, uh, friend, uh, who's this, who used to be my employee, and I'll see what he says. So he shot a text. Well, within like 24 hours, this guy was texting me and he is like, Hey, can we set up an interview? Can you send me a resume? And so I remember writing out a resume out resume. Um, I was boarding an airplane when he sent me that. Um, uh. Text message I remember. So I remember sitting on an airplane, typing up my resume, finishing it all, sending it to him, and then meeting with him. And at that point he was coming actually back from the job that he was working in prior to the company his dad owned, which was in automotive. Well, I met with him and I found out this company, it's quick loop. It is oil changes and it's a local, oh Jimmy Lea: gosh. Peter Bailey: Yeah. It's a local company that does oil changes. And I'm like, oh, well. So I sat in this, I sat in this interview with him and we probably spent two and a half hours in an interview as he went through all this stuff with me. Um, come to find out this. Wasn't any oil change place that I had ever been aware of. Um, and they're in town, they're a local company that's family owned still, and they were, had two stores and they were looking to start their third and they needed a general manager for their third. But this oil change place, Ankeny, which is just up the road from me, their biggest store was there and they would process upwards of 250 cars a day if. If like during a round holiday season and on normal we'd be, they'd be somewhere around 180 to 200 at that place. So like a ton of volume, like this was not normal. It's crazy. So I went, Jimmy Lea: that's a lot of oil changes. Peter Bailey: That's nuts. Tire rotations, they do some fluid services, mostly oil changes. That's their bread and butter. And I remember thinking about it. Then he said, come out for a day, just work in the shop for a day with, uh, his brother at that time was an ops manager. So I went out and worked with his brother and, um, come to find out, I was like, well, this would be a place I could learn leadership and interviewing skills if I really wanted to, but do I want to do it? And they shot me an offer, and it was more than I was making at that time, uh, in automotive as a mechanic or anything. And I said, okay, I'm gonna give this a shot. They, their idea was they wanted to put me as a general manager. For their Walkee location, just west of town here. When they opened it, which is their third location, I said, all right, let's do this. So I signed on with them and I got the most amount of calls I've ever received from all the people in automotive that I knew, like from, I initially told my boss, but it was all because it's like. Forbidden sin to go from automotive repair where we really pride ourselves right. To anything that has to do with quick lube. 'cause quick lube has a terrible wrap to it. You gotta, Jimmy Lea: oh yeah. They, they skim the top, they take all the gravy. They, they're gonna go in and do the air filters and the windshield wipers and they Peter Bailey: do shoddy work. Right. And they, they don't tighten drain plugs and you end up with lawsuits and all that sort of stuff. So I was like, all right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Peter Bailey: I'm fully aware of this, but if this is what I, if I wanna learn leadership, like I can do it here. I think, 'cause these stores, they would be equipped with about 25 to 28 people per store that you had to be able to lead. So there's quite a few people in the store. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Peter Bailey: Everything from your managers to your assistants to your employees. Um, cut me off if I'm going too long on any of this, so just let me know. But in any case. I started working for them and I started learning to be a general manager. Uh, within about six months, the CEO who had hired me had, was, had joined at that point in time, and he. Came to the shop that I was working at a couple times and he'd come every week and then eventually he is like, Hey, Peter, I, you've been working, I see your eth work ethic and everything. Would you consider going to lunch with me? And so I went to lunch with him a couple times. And then at that point he, he's like, Hey Peter, you have the automotive knowledge. You're the subject matter expertise is here. Um, and his brother, who was the ops manager for the whole company at that point in time, stepped down and said, Hey, I'm gonna do something different. And he left the company altogether. And so the CEO comes to me and he goes, Hey Peter, can you, can you be an ops manager? Do you think you could do this? And I said, well, absolutely. I think I could do this. And I jumped into that fee first. Then at that point, I was in their AIM store. I jumped into ops manager and um. It was like a convergence of all of your leadership changing over in a very, it's a small business, granted, right. We're under $12 million at this point. Um, but you have like 50 plus people. 'cause we had two stores and everything had hit the fan at one time. I remember. And having to just figure out how do you keep two stores open that are doing roughly. I don't know. Again, we're doing maybe 8 million at that point in time between the two stores. Okay. How do you keep all of this running and still working while the owner's there? The CEO's there next to you and I'm the ops manager and I'm trying to keep everything pulled together. 'cause at that point we had a general manager and Ames, our ames store, quit ops manager, quit in store manager and it's all 'cause of leadership turnover at that point. So I'm just, I'm watching all this go down. I'm like, ah, this is making sense. I know why this is happening. People are. Worried about their future. They're frustrated with leadership turnover. What's happened for the past five years is no longer happening. So all this happens, and I remember having a lot of conversations with the CEO, but then just starting to dig into, like, I listened to every podcast on leadership I could find. I read every book I could find on it, and then I started just talking to people and I. Was there to help try to build it back up. So I stepped in in Ames for a brief amount of time, found a general manager, played that role, found a general manager, put him in the store, trained him in the store, turned down the Ankeny store, did similar thing to there with them. Um, and I stayed with that company for almost four years. Trying to learn this. And I, I learned it at the end, but that's where I cut my teeth in leadership of I figured out I can work 90 plus hours a week if I need to and I won't die. I know how to try to manage a home life and a business at the same time. And also I went through some difficult conversations with. Owners and the CEO as well, both of which had come from corporate backgrounds. And I didn't on how to, how do I speak to these people? How do I gain their respect and trust? And at the same time, how can I sit in a room full of owners and CEOs and hold my own and not let everything hit the fan and get flustered? So it was a great learning experience. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it sounds like it. I mean, you, that was the, uh, uh, refiner's fire. You stepped right into it and it was on full blast, full furnace. Sounds like you stepped into a, a, a landmine, uh, just from day one. Everything was blowing up right around you. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Okay, Jimmy Lea: so I have a question for you. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: What does leadership mean to you? Now that you've been through all this, you've had all these experiences, you've read all these books, you listened to all these podcasts, you've had four years, you're working the corporate, you work in the private. What does leadership mean to you? Peter Bailey: It is a generalized question. I mean, that's a super broad question, but at the same time, um. I think leadership takes different appearances depending on the stage that you're at in the company or business and the business's lifespan. But at the same time, just in general, leadership is being able to cultivate culture inside of a business that's going to thrive and people enjoy and they get to the next level, and at the same time you can. Use the efforts from those people to continue building a business to the next level. Right. But when I was doing this all for this last place and what I'm doing right now, everything is centered around culture at this point. 'cause if I don't get, if I don't have people that are happy to work, that are interested in working, that I can't continue to put push into, I'm lost because I can't do this myself. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. It it is so true. And people don't leave a job because it's a bad job. They leave a job because of poor leadership. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Poor leadership normally, or Yeah. The people that are in leadership, so you're right. Yep. Jimmy Lea: Poor management. Uh, yeah. That, that's why people are leaving their jobs and, and searching for fulfillment somewhere else. Peter Bailey: Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So you were there for four years and now you are limitless garage. Yeah. After the, so talk about that transition of going from the, the corporate quick lube into independent auto repair. Peter Bailey: So by about Jimmy Lea: back into auto repair. Peter Bailey: Yeah. By about year middle of year three at this job with oil changing and everything. Um. I figured out pretty quickly, like once I had established what work ethic I want to have and what we're capable of, once I had experienced that, I'll be honest, once I had experienced that with my wife currently as well, so that she knew like what this took. I mean, there were days that I'd leave at three 15 in the morning and I would not be home until after 11 at night. I remember days where I would work that extensive of a day and she would figure out, and she'd be more than happy to continue supporting me as her Hu as her husband. And that was groundbreaking for me. So once we had established that we were a team, this is what we wanted to do. And at that point I was like, I, I can make this work. I can make a business work. 'cause I went from that. Being able to work those hours to being able to. To put people in place, train people in place, and see the progression to get me to work six hours in a day. So it's like, okay, I know how to do this. If I can train in the right areas. And I'll be honest at this point, now that I've gone through it and I'm, I'm not super old by any means, so I have a lot to learn, I'm sure. But at the same time, once I'd figured out I could do that, um, at this point in my life, like it's not 'cause I don't wanna work. I really do enjoy working, but I still enjoy cars and people and all that sort of stuff. However. I wasn't confident unless I knew that I could make the business successful, even without me, that I could make this work. So by about middle of year three, I was like, I know I can make this successful without me. And if that's the case, I know how to get there. I want to do it myself now. And that started sparking the conversation with my, with my, um, with the CEO and my boss at that point in time where I was like, 'cause I moved from operations manager then to director of ops right underneath him. And, um, I started hiring ops managers and general managers and starting to tweak the business in certain areas and processes. And at that point I was like, Hey, I'm ready to do this myself, and I think that this is a good time for me to exit. I've got some great people that are surrounding me and I think that you would be well off without me, but at the same time, respectfully, this is something. I had the potential and I told him earlier, I had the potential of doing and I'm back to it. And so of course, initially that started a full course press on, let's keep Peter and Yeah, that it's great. It's, it's flattering to be honest, right? Anytime it happens. But at the same time, my mind was made up at that point. Uh, so I gave, um. Several months notice, a six month notice I started, we started telling people that Peter's leaving and here's who's taking his place in these areas and training and everything to like, I remember the last week, just not really having much to do. 'cause I had trained, at that point in time, I was reviewing, I was making sure everything's happening and it's like. Let's make this a very easy handoff. Nobody should know that Peter's gone. Um, everything should be handled and when I step out, it's seamless. Um, and I like to hope that that was very close to what happened at the end. So I stepped out and I remember this was May 27th, 2024. Was my last day at that shop, and I remember going home and that was a, oh gosh, it was like a Wednesday or Thursday, I don't remember now. I remember going home and for the next, then proceeded to be the next three months. All it was was renovating a pole barn on my property to try to get ready to become a shop where I could just start outta my own barn because I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure what my clientele was going to be yet, but I had my vision put in place my LLC at that point. I had a lot of that stuck out or put together, but I didn't have what I was sure was gonna be limitless garage yet until I had finished that first building. And so I spent the first two or three months finishing the building and opening then officially in July. Well, it wasn't even three months, I guess, right? I spent all of the Es of May, June, the beginning, parts of July before I opened in July then. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. Congratulations. And so you, you opened your shop in your barn on the, on the property. And how long were you in there and how many did, did you have employees? How many did you have? Peter Bailey: I did it all right. It's a, it's a typical business startup, right? You know, especially in automotive. It's like, I'm gonna do it all. Like I am all my hats. And honestly, at the very beginning, I knew it immediately. I was like, this is not sustainable, but I'm gonna make it happen just to get the cash, just to be able to get to the next spot. So I say that right? We look at May 27th, 2024. That's not that long ago. I look at where I'm at right now. That's Jimmy Lea: a heartbeat to go, dude. That's, that's really barely almost, it's almost two years ago, but really you're like a year and a half ago. Peter Bailey: So now we're sitting, I mean just bringing you up to here, but now I'm sitting in my office here at the shop. We have a little over 5,000 square foot shop at this point in time. I've got multiple employees. We just built our lounge out and I'm a little love talking to you about them, but. The inception of that, I started at the shop. I started initially, I'll be honest, I live in Mitchellville or right outta Bondy in Iowa. And I'm like 20 minutes from a metro area. From the metro area. So nobody wants to come out and visit me unless they know me and they just wanna support me. So initially, right off the bat, like I built my Google profile and I just shouted out there, I'm like, everything is free pickup and delivery. I'll come to your house. I'll pick it up. Just tell me what you got and let's get going. Bye. From July 4th, well, from, it was July 12th. From July 12th until the end of October. By that point, I could not keep up with what I had, and so I hired my first employee at the beginning of November and I remember vetting him, interviewing him. I was like, this is like, I, at that point, I had interviewed over 300 people and I'd filled like 185 positions at my previous company. I was like, I'm very familiar with this. Let's start my interviews. Start my interviews. Found a guy, guy. He joined me. Um, and we started together in my shop and he was coming out to my shop. Very close there. That's November. Uh, my neighbor calls me in to the county and says, Hey, there's this guy doing commercial work on a residential area. And I'm, I'm literally out in the middle of nowhere, but I have a fairly close neighbor. He was not happy about it. So then the county shows up at my door, gives me a notice. I made friends very quickly with the county. Uh, they were great guys at the end. They gave me several months notice to make this happen. Richard was like, 30 days get out. I was like, no, I, I can't do that. Gimme something. So they gave me until January. Um, and so then I just started my, my process of finding a facility to rent and to lease 'cause I didn't have another option, like where do I find something to lease? So I visited, oh man, half a dozen to a dozen different areas with my real estate agent, which I'm calling up then people from my past employer that I did real estate with. It's like, Hey, help me find a place to lease. And I remember going around to all these, and it's hard to lease for automotive in like a flexible space. They don't wanna lease to repair, right? 'cause they don't know who you are. You're gonna keep a trash heap. What are you gonna do? So I remember I got shut down again like multiple times. I remember trying to sign leases four to five to six times with these people and that nobody wanted to do it because automotive. So at the end I got really desperate and I'm like, I'm not stopping unless I've tried everything. I remember talking to people trying to find the owner of these buildings so that I could call them, and I found several of 'em. I called their cell phones. I finally got phone. Left them messages, texted them and said, just call me back because I want a lease. Your building, and I think you're gonna be really impressed with what I have and I really want to, I wanna buy you over. And I had a couple that called me back. You fast forward until January, December 20, right before Christmas. I signed the lease for this place before I had to be out January 1st. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Talk about cutting it close, brother. Oh my gosh. Peter Bailey: I signed the lease and I walked my employee, uh, in here with my wife and his wife actually came as well. I'm like, here's our new shop. I remember holding up the keys and we got a picture of us holding the keys to our shop, and um, I was like, here's where it's gonna happen. And 5,000 square feet of open space feels like a lot. Initially I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna fill this, but we're gonna fill it together and, uh, uh, Jimmy Lea: feet, it's full. Peter Bailey: Oh my gosh, yes. So we start there and then I start with all of kind of, I mean even just what you see here in my office, but then it's logoing and moving everything over and having a moving party, which included all my brothers are coming over with, you know, the farm equipment and everything. So yank hoists out and to put 'em on flat beds and everything over here and toolboxes. And then, uh, my first employee and I started here and by March of that year I had to find another guy 'cause we were buried again. So March we hired our next guy. Um, and then it happened again. By June, we were destroyed again, and I had to find another guy. And this time it had to be a service writer. Wow. And I hired a service writer then. Um, and so then by this past November we were bordering that again, but that's kind of where I pulled the. The, the thing in the back pocket where it's like, Hey, I know how to work these hours and I'm concerned about what's January and February gonna be like. 'cause normally it can be slow. So that's when it's just kicking to high gear. And that's where I'm working late nights trying to figure out, 'cause now going into first quarter here, we're looking for another guy. I need a nice, I need a good tech at this point in time to be able to get to get things. Jimmy Lea: You're going for your third tech. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Yep. Jimmy Lea: So does this mean that you, as an owner now, you're able to put down the wrench and go into the office and now work on the business rather than always in the business? Peter Bailey: Not yet. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Not yet. Okay. Peter Bailey: Not yet. Jimmy Lea: Keep going. Peter Bailey: Yeah. So even now I still can't do that a hundred percent. And. Is by design a lot. And I, like I said, I do enjoy working. Um, I en I enjoy the pieces of it as well, um, in the shop still diagnosing cars. 'cause that was my backbone initially was just, I could diag cars. I, I mean, I was learn, I, I knew scopes, I knew a lot of this stuff and I really enjoyed it. So now it's, it's teaching a lot and getting my guys up to speed of like, Hey, here's what we need to be doing. Here's how we die at cars. Even if you knew automotive initially, here's what, how I want it done right. Um, in my, in, in my mind, true leadership and delegation and teaching anybody. This is not a one 60 day plan. This is not a 90 day plan. This can be six months to get somebody to where I want them to be at. 'cause by the time I'm done teaching them, I better be very confident that they're gonna do the things that I want the right way. They're gonna have their own style and technique, but at the same time. I'll be honest. Dave Ramsey says it really well. I don't follow necessarily all Dave Ramsey's stuff, but at the same time I think delegation from him. That booklet is amazing because it does teach you if you have a Ferrari and you, you don't immediately hand the keys to your kid and say, you go take my car and drive. Right? If you want them to be able to drive the car, you start with, they ride in the passenger seat next to you while you drive, right? Then you move to, hey. You sit on my lap and we'll drive around the block together and I'm gonna teach you how. Then we morph to, I'm gonna sit in the passenger seat while you drive. Then we finally get to the spot where, okay, you can take it for an hour and you drive to finally, okay, I'm confident. Hands you the keys. Go drive. You got this right. Delegation. It's a, it's a art in my opinion, and it takes time and I'm not rushing through this. So if I'm gonna build it to make it last, it's gonna last. And I've got a, I got a plan to be able to do that. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats. Congrats. So you are deep in the, the neck of, uh, finding a new technician, a, a third technician right now. Peter Bailey: Yep. Correct. Jimmy Lea: Nice. So if you're listening. Give, give Peter a call. He's ready for you. Peter Bailey: Hundred percent. Yeah. We're ready for you. And I think we've got something here that you're not gonna find anywhere else. But um, I think that the piece there of like finding another tech, 'cause all. A lot of, every, a lot of people are hearing right now, right? We're at a shortage of good techs, right? It's all over the industry. It's been over the industry for a long time. Um, it is the way it is, uh, and all these theories out there of what's causing it, right? Why aren't people wanting to do trades, all that sort of stuff. Um, I think that that gives me a great opportunity, if you're okay with me saying this. But in my opinion right now, the shortage of automotive attacks, um. In my opinion, it's not because of flat rate, it's not because of pay. It's not because of it's hard work and nobody can learn this. Um, it goes back to leaders and culture a hundred percent. Because if you come into my shop and you look at what I have here, um, if you look at me and where I came from, I played Australian football. Through college. I'm an avid view musician. I play violin. I played it for 25 years. At this point in time, I have all these things that I really enjoy, but if you, if you get down to the roots of it, it's just basically, I really enjoy a challenge and I enjoy being able to figure things out and cars was a great way to do it. But if the culture isn't there, I'm not, I'm not staying probably as a tech. I now have like one of my best technicians out here right now that's learning still, and he's a music grad. He came from, he got he, he came from his music degree and getting that to now an automotive and being like one of the best technicians I've ever seen, and it's all because of his attention to detail. How well he, he, he's designed to read and to be able to absorb information and put it into practice, and he does a phenomenal job at it. And so when I look at like, how am gonna find my next tech, yes, I need, I need an A level tech. But at the same time, I'm very, I'm committed to being able to train that person if I need to. But right now what I want is the person who has the character traits and qualities that may not even be an automotive. I wanna pull them in because yes, the pay is there. Yes, the hours are there, everything like that. But I got a culture and I've got guys, and I've got a shop that they would be interested in and a vision that I think I could gain their trust on. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I, I agree. I agree. Yeah. The pay is there, the work is there, the hours are there. And what's awesome and amazing about this, the automotive industry and, and your culture, your culture is so important. It, the, the amazing thing about us in the automotive industry is, uh. The, uh, the, the instant gratification, the, the instant feedback, the instant sense of fulfillment where you took something that was broken, took it apart, put it back together, and now it's fixed. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That is so fulfilling for so many people. They, they don't even know how fulfilling it is. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Oh yeah, I a hundred percent. And I mean, yeah, that process along with you, you sprinkle in like just the inherent challenge of finding all those pieces. And it's not an easy process necessarily, but you gotta head on your shoulders and you're willing to think and think outside the box. Like it is awesome. You can't beat it. Jimmy Lea: I totally agree. Hey, so when I tell you about Rru the Rooster, we'll talk music backgrounds as well. I'm not from the violin. I'm not orchestra, but I'm from the band. Peter Bailey: There we go. Oh, I love it. That's Jimmy Lea: great. Yeah. Pet band, jazz band. Symphonic band. Uh, ensemble band, uh, honor bands. Yeah. So we'll, we'll have us a jam session. Peter Bailey: Yeah, exactly. That'd be a blast. Jimmy Lea: Oh wood Peter. That's awesome. It's amazing. Congrats on your journey. Congrats on creating a culture where people wanna be there. Peter Bailey: Thank you. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And you are you. You are an attraction. People are being attracted to your business. Yeah. And thanks. Thanks for listening to the Man Upstairs who kept patting you left, patting you right, patting you left, patting you. Right. Keeping you on that straight and narrow. So you could get to this point where Limitless Garage is an icon there in Des Moines, Iowa. People want to come to you, they want to bring their cars to you. Peter Bailey: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, limitless Garage and even like, you see the logo behind me a little bit and everything like that. But at the same time, um, everything we built, uh. Like we said, I do like cars. I do like a challenge. However, in automotive, in the repair business and in the company that I'm building, um, hospitality and experience is the heart of the shop. So we've formalized ourselves around being a concierge, automotive repair shop with facility. So everything we do is with. Intention, but to feel, have a high-end luxury feel to it, but still staying within the budget and the, the budget of what people are used to in the automotive industry. So I'm not, I'm not the highest of highs and not the lowest of lows, but at the same time, I'm creating an experience and that I think is what draws a lot of my customers in. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Peter, I'll, I'll say that you're not the highest of the highs. You're not the lowest of the lows, but you are the best of the best. Peter Bailey: You got it. That's, that would be the hope and that'd be the dream as we continue to try to make it happen. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations bro. That, that's awesome. So what is the future? Where are you going from here? You've got a service advisor, two techs. You're looking for a third. Peter Bailey: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Then what, Peter Bailey: um, obviously continued, continued growth for the business altogether. Um, I have mapped out. So far, uh, three different phases I'd like the business to go through and I'm, while I'm not willing to share all of where we're headed at the same time, I would say, Hey, uh, the next spots for, uh, or the next stages for us is continuing to, the building we are in right now is a flex space building. So. We had to do a lot of logoing, a lot of, uh, sign signage and everything like that just to make it feel at least enough for customers to come in here. Um, 'cause it's in, it's a new building. It's built in the last year and a half. So we were the first tenants in it. Um, but this building is also massive. I say massive, but it is fairly large, like it's about 25,000 square feet. Um, and we have a small bit of it on the end here. So I'd like to continue growing, leasing out more of it as we develop and ramp up into our next several stages. So the continue, I would. This building here, I would like to have about between probably 15 and 20,000 square feet if possible, if I can fill it, um, and be able to continue building out the different, uh, pieces of the business, which is customer care. So we have customer care and repair, right? For all the cars with li like or limitless garage. Then we've got. We're working on right now, which is all of our fleets. So we've got a fleet program, um, put together and we've started to attract large fleets that are coming in and we're doing all of their, um, we're doing all their repairs and dag and everything on. And then the next parts are vehicle modifications and detail work. So the goal is Limitless Garage will be a one-stop shop for everything for automotive. Um, and while it may be a pie in the sky at the same time. I can make it happen. It's just a matter of taking bite-size chunks, one at a time. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats man. Yeah. I love it. Uh, you're gonna build the kingdom, you're gonna optimize this one, and eventually there's gonna be a second and a third, and a fourth and a fifth. I, I see you, I see you building the kingdom, brother. That, that is phenomenal. Congratulations. Peter Bailey: I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: If you need any help along the way. Peter Bailey: Oh, I do already. Jimmy Lea: We would love to help step in and, and help you out with whatever it is you need in your journey. 'cause it's, it's great to have a second set of eyes. A coach. You have a coach. Are you working with anybody right now? Peter Bailey: Not currently, no. I've not, uh, I've not hired a chef, coach as of yet. I've had multiple people, including yourself and I, I fully believe in having a shop coach. Don't get me wrong. Um. It's more along the lines of, while I don't know everything, I still have pieces in my mind that I have to build and get to that piece and that limit so that I'm ready for the coach and that I'm like, okay, now I'm ready to take the next step that I'm not quite sure about. Where am I going? And that is short. That's a short amount of time before I'll be there, so we'll see. Jimmy Lea: Oh bro. That's awesome. Are you guys head division this year? Peter Bailey: Yeah. Yeah, we're taking the team division, so we'll be closed for a couple days, but yeah. Jimmy Lea: We have to make sure that we connect. I'll be there. Peter Bailey: Oh, absolutely. I love some space. Jimmy Lea: I'm teaching my final classes on Sunday morning. Peter Bailey: Okay, Jimmy Lea: so Peter, we gotta get together. We gotta post up a picture of us being there together at the show. Peter Bailey: Oh, absolutely. I'll come find you. I mean, while it's a fairly big spot, it's not that big of a place I can, Jimmy Lea: yeah, Peter Bailey: probably. Jimmy Lea: It's not that big. We'll find you brother. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. Here you are. Starting out on this journey. What advice would you have for somebody in a similar position to you that is starting their journey and starting their business? Peter Bailey: So already committed to owning their own business. Okay. Um. Always find enjoyment in everything you're doing and knowing that it does have a purpose and that you're building something that can be yours a hundred percent. Um, second would be, uh, there is a teetering point between. Supply and demand and you don't wanna upside upset that too far because one side you'll lose customers. The other side, you lose people. And so you're not gonna wanna make that, you're not gonna wanna be rash on that teeter-totter effect right there. And that's probably one of the hardest things that I struggled through was. Do you hire the tech and hope for the work, or do you have the work and can't do the work, and then you hire the tech and there's a fine line to draw. So those would be the two things. Third thing would be become obsessed with knowing all of the rules and regulations behind automotive and having your own building, because if I could go back and do it again, I probably would not have started on my property. However, I, I made it through it and I'm gonna do it differently. Jimmy Lea: And you had to, you had to do what you had to do. Peter Bailey: Oh yeah, you're right. Jimmy Lea: Because the results wouldn't be what they are. Had you done anything different? So congratulations, props to you, Peter. Peter Bailey: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: I'm very much looking forward to seeing your success and, and being a witness of this awesomeness. Keep going, brother. Thank you very much. Peter Bailey: Absolutely. Thank you.

197 - Mastering Shop Communication: Turning Every Call Into Opportunity April 2, 2026 - 00:54:03 Show Summary: Great communication drives shop success. This conversation shows how call tracking and AI improve performance and consistency. Real examples highlight how better language and tone increase trust and conversions. Coaching becomes easier when teams review calls together. Shops that train consistently build stronger teams and better results.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Parker Branch, Industry Coach   David Boyd, Founder & Ceo CallInbound Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Strong communication improves shop culture and results [00:05:00] – Call recording builds consistency across service advisors [00:07:00] – Reviewing calls improves coaching and accountability [00:09:00] – Using outside calls reduces team defensiveness [00:10:00] – AI scoring saves time and highlights issues [00:15:00] – Remove negative words to improve conversations [00:18:00] – Positive tone increases customer trust and conversions [00:24:00] – Recordings resolve disputes and protect the shop [00:29:00] – AI finds missed chances to book appointments [00:33:00] – Consistent coaching raises performance over time In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/e694rhmVtfA Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or goodnight depending on where you are and where you're joining us from. It may be morning for you. For us, it is still Morning in Ogden, Utah. I'm at the headquarters of International Headquarters for the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and I am so excited to be here with you for this webinar. This is to be an act interactive webinar, so find that comments button and go ahead and put in your information where you're joining us from Today. We are gonna have a, an amazing conversation with both. A highly successful shop owner and a supporting technology in this industry that helps move forward shops, that helps us to take the next step and make the next. Step in improving our shop, our culture, our skills, our sales skills, our relationships. This is gonna be a phenomenal presentation, a phenomenal discussion as we talk about those things that are gonna help you in your shops to make it awesome and amazing. We are stream, live on Streamy Yard. We're streaming live on Streamy Yard. We're also out there on YouTube and on Facebook. So if you're joining us from any of these locations, now's the time to put in the comments. Let us know where you're joining from. Love to give you a shout out as they come in. We'll pop those up for you. Joining me today is from a skill point and a a software in the industry. David Boyd with inbound communication. David is awesome. We, I've known David now for many years. We've known each other. David. We even have a picture of a us being twins, David Boyd: right? The it was a I dunno what you call the wild jacket, right? Jimmy Lea: Yep. David Boyd: I'm looking forward to the next time that we'll meet. Actually just in a month, at the end of the month. I'll see you out in Pennsylvania, so I've gotta get my gear in order for that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, get your jacket and get ready for tools. That's the Tools. Trade show conference in Pennsylvania, Hershey, Pennsylvania. It's gonna be amazing. It's gonna be awesome. Yeah. And our next Mars conference where we took the picture initially. That is gonna be in October, so put that on your calendar as well. If you're wondering where to find the dates, do what I do, and you go to the website and you look it up on, in the events for the Mars conference. Thank you, David. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate your expertise and your awesomeness here in this industry. Thank you. David Boyd: It's a pleasure. Thank you, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Joining as well is Parker Branch from Branch Automotive and Diesel. Is that right, Parker? Are you automotive and diesel? Parker Branch: These days we just DBA as branch automotive. Jimmy Lea: Branch Automotive, Parker Branch: yeah. Jimmy Lea: The most amazing jacket I have ever seen was that vision on Dan. He had a jacket that his logo lit up over the pocket. Parker a branch Automotive was all across the back of it and it was totally lit up. It was the most amazing jacket. Parker, David Boyd: did you Parker Branch: sponsor David Boyd: his wardrobe that day? Parker Branch: He is, he's pretty daring and his wife is pretty talented in that area they took it upon themselves. He was excited to bring it out as a surprise to me and everybody else and David Boyd: love it. Parker Branch: My understanding is he can change colors on the. The lighting around the logo and all that fun stuff. He can even make Jimmy Lea: a pulse. Parker Branch: Oh, he can make a blink and light up and so he was looking to put some moves on Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And he did, bro. He was next level. That was some awesome stuff. I was so impressed. Not only has his wife done that for his jacket, she's also made custom t-shirts for concerts and jackets and hoodies, and they go to the concert and the logo is in response to the beat of the music, how it's flashing and s strobing. Oh my gosh. That's just some next level tech for your jacket. Pretty crazy. Yeah. That's awesome. David Boyd: Of all the ways you've impacted our industry, your greatest legacy may just be the jackets. Jimmy Lea: Hey. David Boyd: I don't know. Time will tell. Jimmy Lea: Time will tell. I love it. Parker Branch: You'll never be forgotten. Everybody knows the crazy hair and the awesome jackets. Love Jimmy Lea: it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. You guys make me blush. I love it. I love that we are known in the industry and that we're good friends and we support each other in this endeavor, and I think it's just really a great way for us to express ourselves and our creativity and yeah, it's a lot of fun. So on that note, back to Business Parker Branch, you are a highly successful shop owner. Your shop is doing extremely well. Not only are you a successful shop owner, you are a coach in the industry. You're coaching other shops, and you are a user of inbound communication of which is an awesome program. How do you use this program? How does it. Develop skills with your team, and then maybe even we can talk about how it develops in the culture of your team as well. But first to, to the team and the skills. What do you see because of phone calls? Parker Branch: Yeah, it's a great point. When we, years ago when we were trying to improve our conversions, we're getting these leads, the phones are ringing. And we're communicating with our customers. We have, four service advisors at our store here. And so there's a challenge in that alone, having that many people and trying to keep consistency across all four advisors. And so we needed to be able to hear the conversations. And at that point in time, I didn't have, a phone system that allowed me to go, record or go back and listen and. I don't remember where I met David, obviously somewhere that I was traveling with the institute as a client and when I discovered what David's product could do with all the recording of the phone. Calls and that it, and quite honestly, his pricing was fantastic for, it was probably an improvement at that point in time for us with better technology. And so we, we talked with David. I was very impressed with what he had. Know at that. I don't want to get him in trouble. But at that point in time, he literally flew out here and did the installation of our phone system, came over to the house and I think had dinner, or David Boyd: we had dinner. It was fantastic. Got beautiful view out there Parker Branch: and it was like, I was blown away that and I'm sure he may have grown to where he's, got team members coming out, whatever, but he really took the time to make sure we were set up. And it gave us the capability to then start listening to phone calls so that we could go back, listen to calls. For a lot of people, a lot of us in the industry, one of the things we worry about liability and what conversation was had with a customer. And quite honestly, in the beginning, our use of his product had a lot to do with, he said she's, if a customer was like, oh, that's not what I said geez I'm sorry that there's a misunderstanding. If you'd I can. Download our phone call and email it over to you and you can listen to it again to see what we talked about. So it was, it protected us in that facet. But back to your point, for the coaching and growth and improvement of our shop and our team and our culture and consistency, we're able to start listening to some calls. And that was pretty awesome. Jimmy Lea: That is cool. I like that. You can also listen to the inbound and the outbound with David's program. Yeah. Once upon a time, there was a time where call tracking was only recording the inbounds inbound phone calls, and now. With David's program, we can not only do the inbound, but we can also get the outbound as well. So Parker Branch: yeah, the dashboard through, from inbound is fantastic. I'm a lot better at working on a truck when it comes to a computer system than I am on the desktop here, but even myself, his system is so user friendly, the dashboard that I can get in there in less than a minute and search inbound outbound. What extension, who had the phone call by phone number, whatever you want, you can search through that system and pull it up really easily and quickly. And from there we try to have, we'll have one-on-ones with our service advisors, little privacy and let 'em listen to some calls. We'll do some team exercises as well. Sometimes, I'm in a gear performance group still, so I'm coached by the Institute, by Jennifer Holbert and in that Gear Performance Group. Occasionally this becomes a subject how, like we hit it from time to time 'cause we need to stay sharp. How are we handling our calls? How are we doing on converting these leads? All of you are spending a lot of money to make the phone ring with your AdWords campaign, social media, whatever it is. How are they get asking for the appointment, getting 'em in here And they'll coach that even in our group. And so we had a session, oh, I think in the fall. And Jennifer had secret chopped all of our shops multiple times, and she brought those phone calls to our gear performance group meeting. David Boyd: And for Parker Branch: Jennifer, and I'll tell you what, it was painful to listen to some of the calls, but that's the reality, and what I learned from that meeting and what I brought back on that specific time. We listened to some of o our other peers from the group. We listened to their calls here at Branch Automotive. So it wasn't, Hey Jimmy, let's listen to your call and put you on the spot and make you defensive. Or we just said, no let's use David's software. We've already pulled some of these phone calls from other stores. Let's bring 'em in here and have my four advisors critique these other calls. And it became an exercise. And they bought in and everybody was like, oh, I should have done this, should, so it changed the narrative where it wasn't defensive. Then after that we went through and listened to some of ourselves and our own calls here from branch. And it was it set the tone to make it constructive and fun. It kept the culture up where we didn't want people to feel like we're beating them up. But that part of it was really cool. Beyond that, David developed his capabilities to have AI scoring and listening to these phone calls and helping give feedback. That's another thing for a shop owner. Do I have time to listen to hours of phone calls? I should take some time to do that, but yeah, it reduces the stress. Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: That's John firm busting in there with those comments. Yeah. Parker Branch: Love it. Jimmy Lea: Automotive down at Fort Worth. Parker Branch: For sure. So Jimmy Lea: thank you. Yeah. The truth, John. Yeah. Parker Branch: Yeah. Now the ai, we get the, we get a, from the institute, we get an email every day letting us know, here was your metrics today, sales, and all the KPIs that they track. That comes right out of our dashboard, and I have the team receiving that so everybody on the team can see it. It's not a secret and it helps everybody know how we're doing. Now we get the email from David from Inbound Daily. So that they can look at the AI scores on how phone calls were handled and. The, it's, there may be some low scores. Sometimes it's a, it's a phone quality the call quality or whatever. It's not our fault, not a phone system issue. It's who's calling in is an issue maybe. But it really, the guys are interested now, so if they see. A lower score on a call. They're like, what the heck is that? I'm gonna, I'm gonna go have a listen myself. So it encourages your team to investigate for themselves to see how things are going. And then we'll still follow up on that and have at least a monthly lunch and learn where we'll talk about the calls, listen to some calls. I can't say enough about the tools. I could talk until you guys are sick of listening to me, so I'll stop a minute and let you jump in. But what a tool to make it easier to be better. Jimmy Lea: Oh, so true. I'm thinking of a shop owner's listening to this right now, and how can they start this conversation? Maybe they have inbound, maybe they have another phone recording system. Maybe they have no phone recording system whatsoever. How can they start? They could call their competition record the phone call, right? Depending on what state you're in, you wanna check on that. But if you're using it for training purposes, you can record the call. Record the call of your competition, sit down with your team. And play the call. Let's analyze this phone call. How can they do? What can they do to make it better? And then as a culture, as a team. We're now gonna record our phone calls and this is where you can introduce it, Parker, just like you were saying, with your shop, with your 4, 5, 6 advisors. I know. Sorry. It's just four. With your four advisors, you're able to listen to each other and can help each other grow. And what a phenomenal program with Jennifer to allow you to listen to other shops. I, that's phenomenal. I love that. I love that. That's very good. And there was another way I was gonna go down another road or the shop owner that's wanting to start with this. How can they start? That's the way to start, Parker Branch: right? Jimmy Lea: And then the second need to make is with David and get signed up for inbound because you would be surprised. It is top quality. Oh, I remember it. Okay. What about this Parker, have you ever coached? No. No. David, this is to you. David Boyd: Okay. Jimmy Lea: Inside of your system, we can flag a weak word, a gray word, a word that's not positive, right. The word, unfortunately. David Boyd: So that's a great example. And there's so much to unpack with what. Parker talked about the key takeaway for your audience right now and the listener to this webinar. This podcast is normalization. It's important to normalize this aspect of your business, listening to one's own conversation on a recording. Can really be challenging at the onset. So we wanna normalize that. And how do we do that? We do it by consistently reviewing and maybe moving in with a software expectation, moving more toward training, coaching and development as we normalize the, just the simple act of listening to these call reviews. When we leverage ai, AI does something really powerful for us, which is takes this heavy burden of time and the time requirement. For Parker or his leadership team and others that have had to deal with this, it takes this burden of time away. You don't have the time. If your shop gets 150 calls in a day, you can't listen to a hundred. I always joke with owners like, how long does it take to listen to a three minute phone call? 10 minutes Jimmy Lea: so easily. You gotta add in the time to find the three minute phone call to listen to. David Boyd: Hey, you have to find it. And then you listen to it. And then you listen to it. Did I hear that? And then now I gotta go and figure out how am I gonna coach? I'm around this. Forget it. It. This is why historically call training and coaching has not happened unless you have. Mark from the institute and the team that does this, and that's their role in the industry, is to do this right? To sit down, find these calls and train it. But with, within the context of your normal daily operations, how do you normalize this? Now we can leverage ai and that gets back to your question, Jimmy, which is one of the fun things. And another one of your coaches from the institute had requested this at one point in time, and I think it's phenomenal. He was just getting wrecked by. The use of the word, unfortunately, love it. Can we just take the UN off of that, right? So we don't wanna lead with a negative, right? We don't wanna lead with no, or can't or don't, or won't or unfortunately these types of things. We don't wanna say, unfortunately, I can't get you in until next Tuesday. Fortunately, I have availability for you at 10:00 AM on Tuesday. How do I find that in a call that's buried in 50 calls? I have to go listen to each of those one by one no longer, right? You just say, okay, ai, go it. It's certainly much more powerful than finding a key word or a key phrase. It can analyze the context of the conversation, which is where we really get that power and going through the analysis part of this. But even something simple, just finding that word, saying where are we leading With no and no takes on different words. Can't, don't, won't. These types of things. Yeah. Unfortunately, is another way that we disappoint customers without knowing it. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Let's finish the story. Tell us about the shop that flagged the word, unfortunately. What happened there? David Boyd: So we set it up to identify that word immediately, send an email, and I don't know if it was maybe two examples. And I think we licked that problem. Nice. So it be, so what happens is we create this awareness, right? Yeah. And this is the power of coaching. It really is because, and I'll say it's it, we've done coaching for a long time as a, as an industry. It's the power of consistency in coaching. Consistency wins. Jimmy Parker you know this in your shop, Jimmy, you're certainly aware of it. Consistency wins. So when we create this awareness. Now the coaching and training that I'm trying to extend to my service advisor resonates and it creates an awareness. So the next time they go to pick up that phone and field the call, we now have a new awareness. We're creating a new awareness of what is this? The next one that I'm gonna be sitting down with Parker and talking about is this the next one, that in five minutes my manager or owner's going to have an email. In their inbox that says, whoop, we used the word unfortunately. Hang on a second. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The and I think what happens for a lot of people is they don't realize that they're using these mental placeholder words. They don't realize that they're using the word just, I'm just calling to follow up on your car. No, you're not just justice from justifying. You have to justify your existence. Why did I interrupt this person's day? No. You dropped your car off with us. I'm calling to update you on your Ford F-150. You don't use the word just, so if we can eliminate those words, we now have a position of strength and of power, and of authority. Because we are in the industry. We are the power and the authority. We can speak with better words and better vocabulary, right? Parker Branch: Yeah. The good news, Jimmy, I can't wait to tell you how great the software is helping us, and these phone systems make it a pleasure to try. It's that point that we're having these conversations with our customers. They're gonna go where you lead them, and it's to instill that in our service advisors. And help 'em understand. Some of it's like Michael Smith, personal leadership, understanding of human, how we operate. And if you can train using this tool with your advisors and point out that. Being positive. Hey, the good news is this is what's going on. And here's, we found what your primary concern was. We were able to diagnose that we know what the right course of action is. We want to take care of this, that, and the other thing. And it's this many dollars. And the good news is when we're done with that, you're gonna be back up and running. So there's no. Unfortunately, oh, this is gonna be expensive. Or, the keeping it positive and energy to David's point about the keyword or yours from that learning of, unfortunately, so I always tell 'em, Hey, remember, energy positivity and they will follow you along that line. If you come in there and it's negative and, oh, I don't know about this. You've art, you've just, you've spent all this money to make the phone ring. You got 'em on the phone and then you led them down. The poor old, Nope, this isn't so good. So it makes a big difference, just the connotation and the energy and some of those key words. And using the AI to expedite, sure. None of us have time to spend hours and hours searching through it. But dedicate, pick a day a month to have a lunch and learn and make yourself or your manager have maybe the day before or that morning, spend an hour or two. It's well worth spending some time, at least once a month to prepare. Then go to the team, Hey, let's do this exercise. I'll buy you some pizza. Whatever you guys want. It's just a great toolbox. Jimmy Lea: Oh it really is. And to your point, if you're not having company meetings consistently with an outline, with an agenda, then what you're actually holding are company beatings. Parker Branch: Yeah, and to that point, having, if you're gonna have a meeting at least once a month you certainly should, if not more. And in that once a month meeting for a lot, there may be people out there that listen or watch this podcast that don't know have a safety topic and have a sign, sign-in sheet every time you have a meeting. And whatever else is gonna be on your topic for that day and keep a log of that safety topic that you talked about, everybody signing in that could qualify you depending on your state and so forth. For a discount on workers' compensation insurance, it does for us. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Great tip. That's that's great to hear. Parker. Do you know of any stories, whether it's personal with your own shop or some of those shops that you're coaching? Do you know of a story that involves a phone and a phone conversation that could have gone bad, but actually turned out to be good? Parker Branch: Oh, that's a tough one. Certainly, I think my little example earlier about he said, she said yes I know there have been a couple of times over the years where there was, it was suggested maybe by a client that. This wasn't what I agreed to or, that type of situation which that is unfortunate, but we tried to keep it positive and as much as we can be frustrated by that situation, I think when we presented it, we tried to be professional and courteous, but let them know that, in fact I can send the conversation over if you'd like me to, because this is what we had talked about and you had agreed to. This situation. So I'm not sure how there could be a discrepancy there, but I'd be happy to send a recording of that over and we can look at it together. So certainly if that had escalated, which it didn't thankfully but it had that escalated and put someone into a legal situation, I would advise you to check with David and his team as far as what rules and regulations. In your state regarding recording phone calls, whether you have to have a message that announces it or whatever. But as long as you've consulted his team, he will make sure you are compliant and have that ability to then have that protection. So I, I hate getting into the examples 'cause none of us wanna have the negativity. But it's solid if you have an issue and need it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, David Boyd: I have a couple examples that I can expand on that if you have a second, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. David Boyd: One of my favorites that I actually use when I'm talking with other shops that are considering call inbound for supporting them in their communication is Institute. Member that was part of GPG for a lot of years that uses our program. Had a customer come in and ready to check out, right? So they're there to pick up their vehicle. Were presented with their $3,000 bill and they said, $3,000. You told me they'd be $300, and they were convinced. They, they made a convincing statement, shall I say. And now we know the rest of the story. So the manager there did something that I love and the way that we approach the use of the call recording sometimes we have to be a little bit delicate because we don't want necessarily wanna come across I'm gonna throw this in my customer's face, right? We still are maintaining a relationship. This manager did something that was beautiful just naturally. Stated, I wasn't part of that conversation that you had with a service advisor. Lemme just go grab the call recording real quick and we'll just check that out. And he said, Hey if that's what we said, we'll stand on that. And all of a sudden the amnesia cleared and the customer's memory returned and they said, ah, I probably have it wrong. Don't worry about it. They didn't wanna be embarrassed. Sure, because they made the demand. You told me this was $300. So it's, I call it customer accountability. We're not trying to corner somebody or we just wanna say, Hey, I call it the replay booth. If we need to leverage the replay booth. So this is one of the pieces of a really comprehensive set of best practices about how you handle calls today. Of course, we've spent a lot of time about call, talking about call recording and how important that is and how we use that in reviews and coaching and training. The metrics the the way that we analyze. Are we even asking people to come in and see us? Are we training our service advisors in this arena? And this is one of a set of best practices that we leverage because we're part of the automotive repair industry. So what's the best time to answer the phone when somebody's calling you? And how can we use technology digital technology like, like our digital phone system? To ensure that happens as, as high a percentage as possible, that we answer that phone when somebody's calling. And then how do we leverage technology when we're not available? Nights, weekends, holidays? There are various times Parker does something great at his shop. I don't know all of the details around this, but I think you got a period of time daily that you you go offline, right? Parker Branch: Correct. For your lunch, David Boyd: is it Parker Branch: free your lunch? Yeah, we're closed. We're closed from noon to one. We shut the phones down from noon to one. David Boyd: Yeah. Parker Branch: To give our service advisors a lunch break. But even, during that period of time, every time the phone rings and it goes to voicemail, it generates a, an email that comes into our whole team. If someone calls after hours and leaves a voicemail, it comes in to our whole team. And we pride ourselves on, if it's during the day. W we see that email, that customer's gonna get a call back within minutes. And if it's, I have it coming to my phone maybe I'm guilty. I don't turn the business completely off. If I see an email come in over the weekend and somebody's hot and there's been a, an issue or something that, that, maybe I'm embarrassed we made a mistake or whatever. I can see it immediately and I can turn around with his technology that he's helped us set up. I can call from my cell phone and it'll ring out with business's phone number as if I was calling him from the shop. Hey, I'm sorry that you've had this issue, whatever. But just on, in the day-to-day, receiving those emails immediately to see, it transcribes whatever the customer said. Also has a recording. It's pretty awesome for making sure we're staying on top. I'll, like even the, sometimes the marketing team will look at, the calls that are coming in. They're like, oh, this one got missed or not answered, and I'm like, no, I don't think so. It might have been lunch or after hours, but I can guarantee you that within a short period of time, that person is getting called back because of the technology that David brings in his package. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Hey and Ashley, Joe, if you'll expand on this question a little bit, unless David, you read that and go, oh no, I know exactly what she's talking about. David Boyd: I don't, I was wondering I think I've got about 80% of the question there, so some more would be helpful. Jimmy Lea: Yeah I think she's saying, we're always so busy. What happens when the phone call does go to voicemail? What happens? David Boyd: Oh, yeah. Jimmy Lea: And Parker's got it set up to where it comes in as an email to him. Are there other options? Are there other things that we can do? David Boyd: Yeah. And this is the beauty of the age in which we live now, where we can leverage alternatives. We've been familiar with things like auto attendance for a while. How can we. Try to identify the common things where customers are calling. Do they need to get an appointment scheduled? Let's kick out a text message to them right through the phone system. Can we engage them with a an AI scheduling assistant, and have that tied right into your online scheduling system. Yes, there are ways that, that even when we can't answer that phone, that we can leverage technology to try to engage our customer. We always wanna do something that is. Forward thinking in the sense that we want to al always help our customers understand that we are the shop they wanna do business with. Oh, you've anticipated my need in this way. After hours is a real common example, getting their vehicle dropped off. A lot of customers have never done that before, so it's uncomfortable they don't know what to do. We can provide very straightforward information, establish a clear expectation of what to do, when they arrive, what to do with their keys, when are they gonna hear from us. And then we're leaving them with this idea of, oh, they're, they've really thought of me, right? Getting them connected to a tow service. But then using other aspects of our technology where we can get them scheduled during business hours or after business hours. If we can't handle that call, let's identify if they're calling about needing to schedule an appointment. Just engage them with that and get that appointment scheduled right through the phone system. Parker Branch: Yeah, I think follow me answer Ashley's question. David Boyd: Yep. Parker Branch: Looking at the AI will let you know if you have that option. It'll let you know if they did request the appointment. So that's part of the scoring. So again, instead of you having to listen to calls and calls in a lot of time. With the AI tool. And I can tell you I'm probably guilty in a sense that I don't know exactly what cost is associated with what specific part of the program that I have. But I know that of all the things I do I still feel like I'm stealing the service from David because he is so fairly priced. David Boyd: I'm Parker Branch: making note here and but yeah, the that AI section of that will give you clues actually really quick. As to which calls maybe to go listen to or, you can pick a few and get in and out of the tool pretty quickly. David Boyd: We leverage AI to analyze the context of each call. So we want to categorize that, one is this a customer, we don't want to have to bother with vendor calls if it's a parts shop or a parts house or dealership or somebody's calling me. That doesn't have, it's not a customer engagement. So we can set those aside and then identify as an, an opportunity where there's an appointment or scheduling opportunity. Is it a status call? Depending on your process in your shop. A customer calling for status might be essentially a fail, right? If they're calling us for the status versus us providing that. So do we wanna identify those status calls? And then also sales calls. In what Parker's talking about in the opportunity or scheduling call analysis, we go through various aspects, right? How did we greet the customer? Did how did we qualify, right? Did we know who they are, their vehicle information? Did we ask for the appointment? And this is the key. I think that's exactly back to your question. Hey good to see you, Josh. You might be surprised or you might not be surprised to learn that there are various obvious, there are obvious times in a conversation when it would be appropriate to ask the customer to come in and see you. And there are also times that we failed to do that in the shop. So quickly identifying when those occurrences happen and then be able to. Train and coach and guide against those using them as real life opportunities. Hey, we had this conversation. This would've been a good opportunity to ask the customer to come in and see us. And then it also helps identify if you've got, some challenges maybe with advisors who are just not getting it that the AI can give you examples where this is important for understanding over time. How many times do we have to repeat this idea of asking for an appointment? I don't mean to get so sidetracked on that, but if an objection arises a hesitation, how did we overcome that? And then in the in the scheduling and sales call analysis, we have what I affectionately call our customer care composite. How well did the service advisor care for this customer? This is important. It's your brand at stake. Were we professional and enthusiastic? And what was our tone? Were we helpful? So these things are gauged. What was the follow up and reassurance at the end of this call? How did we sign off? So these are all, this is a very comprehensive analysis that. We leverage AI to do so that you don't have to, it's delivered to you. One other note too, we spent some time talking about maybe the opportunities in these calls. I hesitate to call them bad calls, but, calls are there, there are things that go well and things where we have learning opportunities really in every call, but where are the good ones and can we identify those calls? Because when we identify a good call. Where really all of the boxes are checked. Let's sit down and listen to that one and say that thing. Do that one again. Exactly what you did here. 'cause you hit all of the right things. So let's replic replicate the good behavior, the high performance, and then let's identify where we have opportunities in the parts that were missed in calls, and use those for training purposes. Parker Branch: Yeah. Let's point out the wins in that call. And the things that were great, encourage. From there, and to your point, it's gonna get replicated. We'll have more consistency across the business that we want. So great things. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's so true. And it's awesome to see the progress that these service advisors are making. The call that they have today, that is their very best call. And you've identified it. You put it up on a pedestal, everybody listens to it. There's even things there that you listen to and you go, ah, you know what? I could have done this better and I could have done this better and I could have done this better. Let's fast forward a year down the road, listen to that call again, and that will be one of the not best phone calls because now the phone calls skills have improved so dramatically that no longer is the training module for f phone skill. You have a new standard because you have coached and trained Parker Branch: right Jimmy Lea: And practiced those skills consistently. In your company meetings. Parker Branch: Yeah, I think you just gave me an idea, Jimmy, that in our, in our drive where we have all of our, resources, materials, SOPs, whatever it is, I think there ought to be a folder for some of these calls To that point, some great examples. So let's have a new folder. Maybe Daniel, we need to have a phone training folder added into our drive so that we can drop some of these. Coachable and celebratory, calls in there to refer back to your point, Jimmy, that's a great idea. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. This is our best of the best for 2026 and at the beginning of 27, you're gonna listen to those calls and go, wow. They, I, okay. They were good, but man, we're so much better now. Parker Branch: We are, we're gonna have to develop a new trophy. We have the big dog trophy here with a we have a Mack truck emblem attached to a piece of trophy board with the big dog placard on it, and Daniel Howells and celebrates someone each month. We're gonna have to have one of those with a golden phone on it or something. David Boyd: I've got an extra handset here. I'll paint it gold for you and ship it over. Parker Branch: Yeah we'll nail that sucker onto a plaque and we'll have to come up with a creative name. That's Jimmy Lea: great. I love it. I love it. That's awesome. That's awesome. Hey, and those of you who are listening, if you've got questions, comments, concerns, type 'em in the comment section. Let's ask these guys something's on your mind. Let's ask them and go ask questions. Yeah, put 'em in the comments. David, you were gonna start some David Boyd: I was gonna say, just it, its important to create normalcy around this. And have an expectation as the leader of your shop and communicate that expectation so that, I love that phrase, if it's not a meeting, it's a beating. And I think the biggest damage that I've seen is, and it's not intentional. No, no business owner is intentionally beating up their team about this. But call coaching tends to occur only when a major defect has occurred. Historically. So there is maybe some negative connotation. Maybe your service advisors came from a different shop where they did this and it was not a comfortable experience. So this isn't, we're not gonna sit around the table and hold hands, but we're gonna sit down and we're gonna have conversations consistently, consistency wins in this case. So we want to quickly identify good opportunities, and I would encourage you, as the leader in your organization when you're doing call reviews. To talk about what went well and where we have opportunity. And any one call has that even a poorly executed call. There's something that went well even if it was just they had a, an uptone sound when they answered or, upbeat sound, that type of a thing. So identify the positive with the opportunity and, create it. Do this consistently enough that it becomes normal and that we're elevating, together. We're gonna learn together, we're going to the other. Actually, now that I say that make sure that your advisors know the what's in it for me, part of this. Coaching without an objective is just, it's just talk, right? It's more, we need to have this be more than a conversation, need to understand, look, I want you to do better so that our brand is valued in our community. Our our work is respected in our industry. Customers love us and trust us. And oh, by the way, at the end of the day, your paycheck probably goes up depending on your comp plan, right? But this is the, what's in it for you, right? We wanna have these familiar relationships with customers. We wanna make sure that our service advisors know, like when you ask for the appointment and the customer comes in, and then they, spend the money. Whatever your a RO is asking for that appointment could equate to whatever your a RO is, right? And then they. Realize the benefit of that. This is really about painting the full picture. So it's more, so much more than just answering the phone. I think that's where a lot of people start, is like, all these phones are just blowing up, or it's so busy. I have so many other things that I have to do. Take that breath, calm yourself, brush off the tech that just, chewed you out, whatever it is. And make sure that the person on the other side knows that you Mr. Or Mrs. Customer are the most important person in the world to me right now. You have my undivided attention. And identify those opportunities when that doesn't happen so that we can elevate that bar for your shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. I love that. Parker, a question for you about your service advisors. How do you train them on these programs? Is it a once a month deal or is it weekly? How do you train your advisors? Parker Branch: So it's once a month that Daniel, my manager, will actually have a lunch and learn and talk about the phone calls. I think I had, when I mentioned before, I think it resonates like what David was saying. We don't wanna beat them down or only highlight the negative or, the. Opportunities to make 'em feel like, oh, great, here we go. We're going to, here how bad we did on the phone. And my example early on, just to say it again and make sure the people out there listening can maybe learn from, what we experienced and learn how, if you have peer, if you're in a GPG group with the institute, you have composite partners. Get some of their phone calls or if you have a coach, ask them to share some coachable phone calls. And we started that when we really started to do a better job of listening and coaching our staff that we have now. We took some outside calls so that they didn't feel attacked, and we listened to some of those calls from our peers that were coachable. And they really, they got into it. Oh geez. That guy was, he sounded he was upset or somebody just kicked his dog or he didn't want to be there, or, he didn't even ask what the customer's name or, got a phone number or things went well. The customer acknowledged, yeah, sure, that sounds great. And okay, yeah. Are we gonna ask for a appointment here? Or, just some of that practice upfront and then. We eased into listening to our own calls and and we played a little game where we just said, Hey, each of you has one minute after we've listened to the call, tell me what you think. Yeah. And we only had, in one meeting we would maybe only have three or four calls. And spent, we'd listened to the call. Stop. Give everybody a minute a piece. Of course, I, you know how much I talk, so I'd get in there and probably break the minute rule, but try to reel it in a little bit. But it became fun. And pointing out to David's point again, the positivity and the tone and culture of your phone call and how you. Made it relational and upbeat and, oh, hey David, how's it going? What's happening with the airplane? What have you been doing? Let you know. I know him and I know my customer, and if I'm, make some conversation and enjoy that. And genuinely I'm asking, how are you doing, Jimmy? What's the next Coke gonna look like at the next thing? All right, great. Let's talk about your truck. When can I get you in here? So having that. Positivity. It's unbelievable how much difference that makes in converting that appointment. And then when they're having a communication, hey the diagnosis is done. We've gone through and done the digital vehicle inspection. We promised you, let's go over this together and talk about it. This is what's going on. That's what's going on. Oh my gosh, how much is that? You know what? Let's just get through the inspection so you know what all is going on with the truck. Then we'll decide what to do from there. Oh, okay. So again, that positivity, leading the customer is gonna follow you when you treat them that well and as a relationship. So I think that's a lot of this helps us to do that and to go back and listen to how well have we done. Jimmy Lea: I love that. Yeah. Tho those, David Boyd: one more one more facet of that Parker, you had shared that you actually do something that I love and it's somewhat unique, but you're sending the AI insights emails that come to you daily into a shared mailbox. And what do you do with those? Parker Branch: I encourage the guys to take a look at 'em and Daniel will use those in training. Yeah. But again, a few years back. I was just going to meetings by myself, going to trade shows by myself. I guess quite a few years back. And I had one of those moments where I was like, I learn all this stuff and I come back and try to share it. It's not the same as if I include my team. So I would encourage you no matter what size shop you have to figure out a way to include your employees in it. So to that example, sharing the insights with them daily. Now when, we just came back from vision, we took 13 people to vision. And all of them came back empowered and like excited and stoked and we, let 'em choose their own, topics. Even some of my technicians wanted to go to leadership type trainings and stuff because they know someday they wanna move up and, have growth potential. It ties together with even this training on the phones and stuff, and send the insights to them to, we send it to our info at Branch Automotive channel and that way everybody in the off, really everybody that has an email can see it. And it creates that curiosity. If I see, you wanna see if you got a, a grade that you're like, what the heck is that, low, high, whatever. It creates some curiosity. And they might go in and listen to it themselves, and that's pretty fun to when you witness that, they're like doing it on their own. I think it empowers 'em. Kudos to you for that tool, having that capability to let the individual that's on the phone take a peek and get excited about it. David Boyd: Definitely I, and I love too that, that you've put it out there in a way like, Hey, this is normal. It's expected, it's, this isn't taboo. If somebody gets a 50 versus a 90 or something like that, there's a learning opportunity. I think human nature says we're gonna look at that email and go. How did I do? But then the second question is how did the guy sit next to me do? So it it creates this this fun environment. So I like how you've you've leveraged that something that, that we can use ai. I think this is a great application to ai. We talk about AI in so many facets of our businesses today, right? But we can leverage this to make it easy to access one. Then normalize so that now you've done something too where you've, you get extra credit for this one Parker, but you've you've, allowed your staff, your service advisors to consume that themselves and find those opportunities where they can self-improve. And it, it happens even outside of the context of the formal training activity around it. It's just normal daily. Hey, we can peek at that email and see how did I do, how did my neighbor do? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. You guys, any final words of wisdom? We need to land this plane 'cause we're approaching the hour. I will put in my shameless plug now and then we'll close it with you, David, and then you, Parker. My shameless plug comes to say, Hey, we're the institute. We coach and train. We train shops to be the best that they can possibly be. Come try us out. There's no long-term contract. We are month to month. Try it out. I guarantee you will see a difference in your shop right around the three to nine month time period, and usually it's right around six. You will see a difference. The difference also includes are you gonna do your homework, are you gonna do those things that Coach Parker's gonna tell you that you need to implement in your shop? If you don't do those things, guaranteed it's not gonna work. But if you do, you will see success. You will see it turn at the institute. We have programs for advisors, managers for you as shop owners. We have 20 groups that get together and they'll descend on your shop. Imagine 20 shop owners come into your facility looking at your shop from front curb to back wall. What do you need to do to improve on your business when they leave? You've got a list of 200 to 300 specific things. That you need to do in your business to take it to that next level. It's absolutely phenomenal. We also have programs that go into legacy. Are you looking at expanding a single location to be the premium location? Are you looking to expand the kingdom and expand your footprint? You wanna add additional shops to your program? We can help you with that as well. That's with our legacy program. So we, at the institute, we know you need a coach. You know you need a coach. Pick up the phone and give us a call. Let us help you, help yourself, and we can help drive that difference. David, final words from you, brother. David Boyd: Thank you. I I echo everything that you just said. I'm a big fan of the institute. I'm a product of the institute as well on the shop side of it. But so thank you for having me on and this conversation. I'm very passionate about communication and coaching and training. Call Inbound is a business that is really best in class. Digital voice communication, calling bound, makes shops and shop owners champions in communication. We have a whole suite of technology and best practices that we use, not only for call handling and we also leverage AI to help improve. Performance on your phones, give you lots of data that's important to manage the the behavior and the improvement of your service advisors know how the customer engagement is going and when needed. We have the recording and data available for that customer accountability we talked about. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Awesome. Parker Branch: Thank Jimmy Lea: you. Parker Branch: Yeah, thanks for having me as well, Jimmy. It's fun for me to be here as a, just a shop owner, a client of the institute doing the coaching one-on-one for some clients for the institute. The institute has made a huge difference in our business and my life and growth. And I think the institute does a fantastic job of being involved in the industry and networking, meeting all the vendors. Suppliers, partners that are out in our industry and bringing light to the ones that they know can really serve you well. And that's how I met David, was through the institute bringing me, together with him. So I can't thank you all enough for that. But yeah what a great topic today and thanks for including me. Jimmy Lea: You're very welcome. You're very welcome, everybody. That's here for to the very end. In the next minutes, you'll wanna pull out your smartphone and scan the QR code. Set up an appointment to meet with the institute and have a business discussion. Let's talk about your shop, talk about your business. There's probably one or two or three things that my account executives could talk to you about in your shop that if you were to change them immediately, you might make an extra 15, $18,000 next month. And the answer is yes. I have had that exact thing happen with one of our account executives and a prospect who is now a client of the Institute. So with that, thank you very much. Thank you everybody for being here. My name is Jimmy Lee with the Institute. Thank you to David. Thank you to Parker, and thank you to the Institute. We'll talk to you again soon. See you next at the next webinar.

196 - Building Modern Collision By Putting Quality Before Cost April 1, 2026 - 00:54:54 Show Summary: Micah Storm shares how he grew up in the family business and built the mechanical side alongside collision repair. He explains how he and his brother took over the shop and later expanded into the building next door. The conversation covers insurance challenges customer education and why quality must come before cost. Micah also talks about leadership team culture training and the value of a four day workweek. His approach is simple: take care of people do honest work and keep improving.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Micah Storm, Owner of Modern Collision Rebuild and Service Show Highlights: [00:00:36] – Micah explains how buying the shop next door doubled their mechanical space. [00:02:29] – Growing up in the business shaped his path but collision work never fit. [00:04:50] – He returned in 1999 to build the mechanical side of the shop. [00:07:10] – Micah says customer education is critical when insurance does not cover proper repairs. [00:09:00] – Pre scans and documentation help determine what damage is accident related. [00:12:20] – Digital inspections create trust and uncover mechanical work during collision visits. [00:15:20] – Micah and his brother gradually stepped into leadership before buying the business. [00:27:15] – A four day workweek improved morale retention and work life balance. [00:38:00] – Community involvement helped make the shop a trusted local name. [00:41:00] – Micah says associations training and strong culture are key to long term success. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello friends. Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. You are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Micah Strom. He is on Bainbridge Island in Washington, the great state of Washington. I have been to your shop before Micah. Thank you for being here. How the heck are you, brother? Micah Storm: I'm great. I'm glad to be. Jimmy Lea: Exciting. And anybody listening, anytime you get out to Bainbridge Island, you need to go and visit Micah shop. And there's one specific thing you need to look for, and that is the old style gas pump you have out front that has been converted and has an electric charger cord in inside this old glass, the old glass gas pump. Man, that is so cool. Micah Storm: It's old meets new. Jimmy Lea: Old meets new, yeah. A blend of the two coming together. Do that, and that's awesome. I love it. I love it. And quite recently, not to spoil the surprise here, but to rather spoil the surprise, you expanded recently. You expanded your automotive repair side, correct. Micah Storm: We, we bought the business, the shop right next door. And we've actually been side by side for 50 years and he was retiring and said, you guys wanna buy it? And I'm like, sure let's do it. So we doubled our mechanical space and I said, Bing, it was right next door. It was a no brainer at that point. Jimmy Lea: Wow that's really cool. Did you buy the building, the property the land and the clients? Did you buy the business or did you just buy the property? Micah Storm: We bought the property of the building. He actually kept the name but he retired. And so basically all his mechanical clients were typically our collision clients anyway basically we just bought the land in the building and that was what was basically what we paid for. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, and it makes sense 'cause your clients were his clients already were your clients. You were just expanding the ability to take care of those clients Micah Storm: Correct place. Jimmy Lea: Before we get into that, let's jump back into history back in time. 'cause Micah, I know you have a very interesting story of how you got into the automotive industry and how you got into this location where you are. Modern collision, dude. Talk to me brother. How did you get started in the automotive aftermarket? Micah Storm: So I grew up in the, obviously I grew up in the business, in the automotive business. My, dad and my parents started the 1974. As a kid I'd be down there sweeping the floors or what have you, and getting outta high school. I was like I gotta do something. So I'm like I learned. At an early age, I don't like body work. I can't stand standing. That was, we'd go down there standing. It's, I'd spend all day standing box fans and my dad would paint 'em, and I'm like, I, whatever I do, it's not gonna be collision. So I decided to go into the mechanical side. Got a job at a local shop around backup. I went to school for six months or the year at UTI. And ended up coming back here, getting a job at a local shop. And that's where it started. Worked at several of the shops for a few years. My parents were getting ready, my dad was getting ready to retire and said, Hey, you want to come back? I'm like sure, but I'm not doing collision works. That's not what I'm gonna do. So he said let's start some mechanical work here. And that was about 90 19 99. And that's when we, our. Mechanical work started at that point. But like I said it's something, I don't know. I like cars. I like the technology, I like getting my hands dirty. And it's, again, growing up in it, it's it was a natural thing for me. And same with my brother. He's same thing. He is run, he does collision. He likes that side. And I like the mechanical. So honestly, both of us, we both own the business together and it really works well. Between the two of us. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. And so you've just pointed out something that is so ironic you don't like working on the collision side of things, sanding, and I totally agree sanding, forget about it. I'm done. And I know that you are the director or executive director or the board Micah Storm: C collision chair. Jimmy Lea: You're the collision chair for CTE Micah Storm: or yeah. CT CTEI was that's again, that was putting that together and that actually evolved, like we can get into that, but that kind of evolved from my start in the mechanical to where my parents retiring and where I am today. Yeah, but I'm also the collision chair for the Northwest Auto Care, Jimmy Lea: so Oh, that. Oh, the irony there. That's hilarious. Yes. Thank you, Micah, that this a whole nother level of friendship between us and the coalition. Oh, the irony. That's awesome. Okay, so back to mom and dad. Mom and dad have the shop and you come back and join it. Are you turning a wrench or are you stepping into the front office? What did you come back and start doing? Micah Storm: Came back. We started with, I was doing the service advising, turning wrenches the whole thing. At that point, because it was obviously really small, we just started but we would, offer a inspection when the car came in. We, a free mechanical inspection and upsell a brake job, or they needed an oil change when they came in for body work. So at the, at that time I was doing. Everything from the service advising, ordering parts, the work, and then closing it out. But it would go in addition to the collision work. Jimmy Lea: So did mom and dad do, is it based on a lot of insurance work or is this a lot of cash customers? Micah Storm: It's mainly insurance work. Okay. So they're on the collision side. Yes. It's. We are not a DRP for any insurance company, which is a direct repair. We work, again, we, we work for the customer, not the insurance company. But ultimately they, they pay your bill on the insurance, right? A check. But they owe to, they owe the shop to fix it and they owe the customer to pay for it. There are some customer out of pay that has actually changed a lot in the last year. The kinda that landscape of, like I said, if we want to get it, we can get into that, but it's become a lot more customer pay because rates are going up insurance rates and people are going, do I really want to turn this into as a claim and have my rates go up? So there's a lot more customer pay out of pocket jobs because of that, which is again that's a SO'S Jimmy Lea: and I witnessed it. I saw it happening 15 years ago when the insurance companies were coming in and buying up all the collision companies. And Yeah, you're not supposed to direct, but they were directing, they were telling people where to go, and they were telling 'em where to tow their vehicle and, oh yeah, you're gonna go to this company over here because that's who our collision company is. They didn't tell you that. Oh yeah. And by the way, we own it. Micah Storm: Yeah. They don't, they own the Jimmy Lea: steering. Steering, that's what it's called. Micah Storm: Steering. They, there's an M, it's an MSO, but they don't necessarily own the company, but they have a contract with them that says, we will send you work, but you have to do what we tell you, and this is all we're gonna pay for. And you gotta accept our rates. You gotta accept discounts, you gotta accept everything. And it's that's not how you run a business. Jimmy Lea: No. Yes. Thank you. But no. So what do you do in those situations where. I'm bringing in my car because I was in an accident and it wasn't my fault, it was somebody else's. I'm bringing in my car for the collision side of things and the insurance company says we'll cover $13,000 worth of damage. But it, your quote was $16,000. What do you do in those situations with clients? Micah Storm: It comes down to educating the customer. Okay, you know what the difference is what we, we'll start by breaking down what aren't they paying for? Is it rates? Is it particular procedures? Are they paying 50% of something they should be paying all, as far as a procedure, they're only paying half it. Break it down. What is not, or what is, what are they covering and what are they not covering? And then to go to the customer and explain to them. What the insurances paid for, what the portion they paid for and why we do what we do. The safety behind it, that we use only original equipment parts. We don't use aftermarket parts, and you start explaining that to a customer and they start going I don't want that stuff. The aftermarket stuff in my car. I want it back how it was. Before the accident. Yeah. And you talk, and not all shops are the same. And you have, it's, you have to educate the customer. 'cause if you don't educate the customer, the difference is the price. And they're gonna look at the, it's why here if it's $3,000 less and you don't tell 'em why your $3,000. More than the insurance ones do. They're going to obviously choose the lesser price. Yeah. But it comes down, like I said, it's the quality, it's doing it right. It's follow procedures and not having an insurance company dictate how you fix a car. Jimmy Lea: Okay. So I have a dangerous question. I have a dangerous question. Micah Storm: Okay. Jimmy Lea: The question is so I bring my car into you and you write up the estimate, $16,000, they're gonna pay for 13. Have insurance companies gotten to the point where they're asking collision shops to scan vehicles prior to doing any repairs that they're might be a preexisting condition that they're not gonna cover? Micah Storm: So e every car gets a pre. The manufacturers, the your OE manufacturer require a pre-scan. Sometimes it's an in end process scan and not a post scan. So the insurance companies will pay for it because it is required. It's in, in the position statements that has to happen. But they have contracts with providers that they will only pay a certain amount. They have a contracted price and that's all they're gonna pay. So even if it costs more to do it, they say that's, this is all we have a con company that will do it for this much, and that's all we're gonna pay. So it's. Again, it comes down to educating what we're doing. And if they're only gonna cap, if they're gonna say we're gonna pay a portion of it, it's this is what it costs. Here's an invoice for it, and we need to collect that from the customer. 'cause the insurance decides not to cover it. Jimmy Lea: Okay. What and what is, so if those situations are there where. There were, and it almost crosses over into like health insurance. That's a preexisting condition. I'm not gonna pay for that. The insurance company, that's what they say. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Is that a situation then when you go to the client and say, Hey, look, this $3,000 that the insurance company's not gonna cover, this is something you're gonna have to cover, or you're gonna have to decide if you want this work done or not. Do you do that? Or does it's, is that a thing? Micah Storm: If it's insurance, or I should say if it's accident related typically they will cover it with proper documentation. It's, they're not gonna cover something that wasn't there prior. And I. And honestly, they shouldn't pay for something that was already there. You know that's a customer's responsibility at that point. Yeah. But it, let 'em know is, hey, we've got the car in, pulled into the shop, we scanned it, had these codes. There's this issue. We, it's not cover, it's not part of the accident. It's not related, the accident. And it obviously that goes depending on what the code is. Know. 'cause sometimes you say, this is not part of the accident, but in reality it is because with Can Bus and all the other things that modules that talk to each other, you could have something. The back end takes out a blind spot and it creates a starting issue. We had a Mercedes that did that one time. Oh Jimmy Lea: gosh. Micah Storm: So it's, there's a line, but you still gotta be able, to say if it's not covered by insurance, that's, you're gonna be your portion out of pocket. Jimmy Lea: And most of these codes have a date timestamp that goes along with it like. I'm thinking like, oh, two sensors. That might've gone out in October and here it is January, and then we have the accident, or it needs a, body repair. That's an old code. Micah Storm: Correct. You can either, like the Mode six data will have all the, the mileage. Typically it was set at things like that okay. It's, you gotta use all the, all your tools that you're, at your hands to be able to come up with a timeline and a, where does this fall? Who's responsibility is this? Yeah. It's our job to tell the insurance, say, Hey, this is what we have, this is what we see. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Micah Storm: Whether they pay for it or not, that's. It's not my call I, but either, either the insurance has got it covered or it goes back to the customer. So Jimmy Lea: yeah, that's that. It's not my circus, not my monkey. It's not my problem to solve insurance company client. Here's, here it is, and you figure it out and lemme know. Micah Storm: Yeah. Provide all the documentation's needed for it so they can Yes. Make their decision. Jimmy Lea: So are you, do you do a lot of digital vehicle inspections with these on the collision site? And I know it's not your jam, it's your brother, but. Micah Storm: So yes. And as far as being my gym, I'm ex, I, my brother does more of the hands-on stuff behind. He likes working on cars. Okay. I deal with all the office stuff and all the business stuff, and I, that's what I love. That's what I love. So I don't have to touch the collision. Cars, but I like working. Yeah, you're Jimmy Lea: not sanding anymore, you just buy the sandpaper. Micah Storm: I'm sand. I'm not sanding. I, but I love working the business side of it. That's, that's really where it comes in. The d d vs. We do on all the mechanical jobs. But we also upsell a complimentary inspection on every body job. That comes to the door, so our mechanics will inspect it and that has a DVI attached it so we can get pictures and send them the report, give 'em estimates for everything. And upsell some repairs, some mechanical work while the vehicle's there for the collision work. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Who are you using for your DVI? Micah Storm: It's through shop wear. Jimmy Lea: Through shop wear. Phenomenal program. I love the integration of that. Oh man. Micah Storm: And Jimmy Lea: there's so much Micah Storm: to do. We was 2017. We were, we had a regular program and we were, I wanted the DVI with it. I'm like, I can either get an add-on to what we had or do I, find something that has it all together. And I'm like, I don't want, he said, she said, this works. That's, no, that's their problem. That's their problem. I'm like, I want something that's all in one. And at the time, that's, again, it was shoppers, there was towards the beginning of it, and we've been with them. For many years with, as Caroline had it and all the way to where it is now, so I know it's she sold a year or so back. Still a great program, so Jimmy Lea: Oh no. It is. Shop wear is a phenomenal program. I love the DVI, I love the integration of it. And for you, just like you said, it's a one phone call. You don't have to play matchmaker anymore to get two people to talk with each other. It's one phone call. Hey, look, this isn't working. Figure it out. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And call me when it's done. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. You've 1999 pops calls, you come back to the shop, you start on the automotive maintenance side of things. When does your brother come back or has he always been there? What? What's the story with you and your brother? Micah Storm: So he's always been there. He started as right, outta high school in the paint department painting cars. Did that for quite a few years. I went off and did the mechanical stuff 'cause I, we didn't do it at the time and I wasn't gonna learn it there at the shop. I came back, started the mechanical side of the, what we have today, and as time goes on, physical things, I've had two back surgeries, so I stopped working on cars, just physically. I couldn't do it anymore. It wasn't the. The career was really hard on my body. And so I started getting in more the service advising. So I we hired a mechanic. I turned in just doing the service advising and at the time, my parents were still my, my mom really was the instrument of running a very lean and dialed in shop. My dad just kind. What do I need to do next? I'll write estimates, I'll go fix cars, whatever. But like I said I worked in the service advising. And then again, as my parents were, my dad retired, my mom was there probably another 10 years. And she is, as she's beginning to step out, she let my brother and I start running it. At that point, we made decisions we would, she'd sit there. I'm here in case something I don't agree with, I'll tell you, but. Do you guys start making decisions? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. So she's really positioning you and taking you and pushing you into that leadership role where you are running the business. So where is that on the timeline that mom the dad retires. Mom sticks around for another 10 years and when is it that she retires, but still has control of the business? It's just you're in the leadership position. Micah Storm: I'd say, so my dad retired, probably about 2001 is when he moved back and then started doing, having an enjoying life at at home. And my mom probably, she stuck around for, she ran it for another five years or so. And then she let us started taking over those decision making and the running of the business. And in 2010 is when we officially bought it from 'em. So she was there till probably about 2008 and then just it's Hey, if you need me I'm at home. Call me. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Micah Storm: We've let us. Yeah. So it's it's been see 15 years, 16 years now we've had it Jimmy Lea: oh yeah. No, that's a long road, bro. Congrats. Yeah, man. That is awesome. And mom and dad are they still with us? Micah Storm: Oh yes. My dad makes garden art. Welds rusty metal together. My mom just loves to travel and grandkids and yeah, so they're doing great. Jimmy Lea: Oh, man, that is so cool. Congrats to mom and dad. Congrats to you and your brother for stepping in and taking over too. That's very cool. So what does the shop look like today? How many on the collision side, how, what does that look like? And then on the mechanical side, what does that look like? Text space, cars, that kind of stuff. Micah Storm: So we have 21 employees right now. 21 team members, including my brother and I. Right now. We have, let's see, one. Five mechanical technicians. We could probably use another one, maybe two for mechanical techs. And then we have three body techs and that my brother really does. The body is one of the body techs. A painter's helper, a parts guy. Deals, just deals with strictly the parts. We have a detail. Two people in our detail department. 'cause we do clean all the cars that leave the collision side get washed, and cleaned depending on the severity of the repairs and stuff. Yeah. And then we do, we, so we have two people in the detail department and then we have two service advisors and. Two estimators, a front office receptionist or bookkeeper, office manager. And then she's getting ready to semi-retire. So we have hired somebody else to take over some of those responsibilities. And then, and then there's me. So that's kinda the layout of how everything you know, as far as the people are concerned. Everything flows really well. As far as the we share the same office for Yeah, the mechanical and the collision shares the same office, the back on the, our upper building the mechanical and then the collisions share the same building space. Obviously there's different sections in there that we do different things, but it's it's a pretty well oiled, I think, at least I feel it, is to be able to run both businesses in the same spot. Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude I love it. So anybody who's listening to this right now, if you know somebody who's a technician and they would love to live in one of the most gorgeous places on earth, Bainbridge Island is on the sound side of the peninsula. There in the very, very northwest tip of the state of Washington. If you're a tech and you'd love to live up in that area, Mike's got a job for you. Just tow your. Toolbox right on over you. You're ready. You're ready. Bring it on. Oh yeah. That is so cool. That is so cool. Congrats on the business, man. That is very good. Oh man, I have so many questions. I'm gonna, I have to slow down a little bit here. Breathe. Alright, so first question for you is when is it, at what point did you decide automotive is the thing for me? Yes. I understand you didn't want the collision side, but you definitely wanted the mechanical side and you did go to university UTI for a minute. When is it in that high school career that you said, that's my jam. Micah Storm: I, that's a good question. I'd have to say. I started doing it because that's what I knew what to do. I Oh, yeah. Messed with my hands. That's, and it's I was in the car business, so it's naturally I stay in the car business 'cause I grew up there. Yeah. I started working on cars. I, changing oil and at a mechanical shop, I, and I started going, okay, I this stuff. It is it's fun. And, again I guess I kept with it until my. I'd have to say that probably that turning point is when my parents, when they said, Hey, we're gonna sell you internet. We're we want you, we're gonna retire, eventually. Want you to buy it. Are you interested? And I thought what do I wanna do that, it, it was more of I had the job at the time the career side of things. That's when it started going, okay, maybe this is. It's a great opportunity and it's, this is something I could, continue doing at that point. I enjoy it. I know what I'm doing. I can, do a good job at it. And I guess that's where it kind of things clicked at that point for me. If I didn't, oh, go. What's that? Jimmy Lea: You blew me away there. I thought for sure it was gonna be like something in junior high or, yeah, I know you grew up at the shop and you're pushing brooms. It's in your blood. You bleed oil. I get it. I get it. But you're telling me that it wasn't until you have the opportunity to say, am I, is this for real? Can I do this for the rest of my life? Then you're like. Oh yeah. No, I love this. This is what I really enjoy. Yes. We can make a life out of this. You and your brother. Micah Storm: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that was kinda the turning point of this. This is it, and here we are today. Jimmy Lea: Wow. And 2010, that come after the the real estate bubble popped. And at 2010, it was finally starting to. Inch its way back up into realms of, okay, we can now see an incline coming back and the world is returning to normal again. Micah Storm: Yeah. It was, it during that time though, every, the, we were busy 'cause everyone's hung out with their cars. They weren't gonna buy new cars. Business was busy for the automotive industry at that time. It was Jimmy Lea: good. Micah Storm: It's a recession proof business for the most part. It is, yeah. Jimmy Lea: It really is. And I'll tell you, at that point in my life, I was in mortgages. I was a mortgage broker. And I had to figure out what am I gonna do? What do I want to be when I grow up? It was a hard situation to be in. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: To come outta that. Man, Micah Storm: Here we are. Jimmy Lea: And here you are. And here you are thriving to a point where you expand your shop by buying out the the mechanics from below. Now you've just expanded your footprint. You can take care of customers. Yeah. I love that. So what's the, what is a misconception that the public has about a collision shop that if you could magic wand it and correct this misconception, what's a misconception that the public has about the collision side? Micah Storm: The, as far as the public, I think the misconception that they have is that the insurance company is there to take care of 'em and they have their back. That's they, again, if you don't take it financial advice from somebody that owes you money, and that's where it comes down to is they're looking to get it repaired as cheap as possible and for as little as possible. 'cause that's where they make their money. And, I guess that's my take on that. That's what Jimmy Lea: you blew my mind on that. That would, that's a good one, Micah. Thank you. Yeah. Don't take financial advice from somebody that owes you money. That also very wise. Very wise. So what's a misconception that the public has about the maintenance side of the business? Micah Storm: Probably they, they think it's easier 'cause they look on YouTube and it's done in 10 minutes and in reality it's something might take you, three hours to do, but it looks easy on YouTube. Jimmy Lea: Oh we oh my God. I just went through this man. I just went through this video after video, I we're watching these videos because we replaced the radio in my wife's car. And I will tell you that I gave up and we took it to a professional. However, it took me two days to finally throw in the towel. So here's the scenario. I'm watching all these videos and they're like da, and you just, you take out the radio. Pop, and then you disconnect the wires and you see them disconnect one, but there's seven more back there back. They don't even show that. And then they're like, okay, and then you take the new unit and you just plug it back in. And they plug it back in and, but you don't see 'em plugging them in. You see 'em pushing the radio back in place and it's like a second. This can't be right. You only plugged in four and I've got seven here. Where did these other three go? Oh, Micah Storm: and then you could then just pop apart. It takes some finesse and finagling a lot of times. Jimmy Lea: And I'll tell you what I learned from this most recent experience is that the modern vehicles, it's more about the transfer of data than it is transfer of voltage. So these vehicles today are much more complicated than the old days when it was a carburetor and spark plugs, and you could tune. Properly tune a vehicle. Modern computers are, is tuning that vehicle constantly, correct? Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And just to be able to pull out a radio and put in a new radio? No. Micah Storm: And certain cars, they, it's considered part of the anti theft and you have to actually take it to, they have to program it and be able to re, to be able. It's crazy some of the stuff they do now, Jimmy Lea: I hadn't even considered that. You know what, you're exactly right. This one wasn't that way. What it came down to, after two and a half days worth of research and discovery and phone calls and emails with a company out of it was either Japan or China. Not exactly which one. Sure which one, but they had pins on their harnesses that the pins from the card did not line up. So they're like just plug it in and it works. I have plugged it in. It does not work. Oh, shoot, man. That's cool. Okay, so same question on the mechanical side. Did I ask that question? What's the misconception on the mechanical? Oh the YouTube? Yeah, the Micah Storm: YouTube. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Micah Storm: That's it. It's a it, some cases YouTube actually has, its place at certain times, getting things apart that you can't see in a repair manual, but yet someone on, you can look on YouTube going, Hey, this is how you do it. But as far as the diagnosing and it's they. Yeah, that, that's, they've kinda lost it there, I think. But there we, YouTube does have its place in the auto repair. I'll say that. Jimmy Lea: Yes, it does. As does some AI information, but it's not always foolproof. I've been watching Correct. Sherwood down there in Georgia and Florida. Royalty Automotive. They have some videos there that where Sherwood is asking Ai, asking chat GPT to help diagnose the car. Totally off, totally wrong. One was a super success. One was a bad failure. It was. It was just horrible. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it's interesting. Okay. Back to you. Enough about them. Let's talk about you, Micah. Okay. What's your current hours and why did you choose that schedule? Micah Storm: So we as of today, we do four tens Monday through Thursday 7:00 AM to five 30. And we close for, we just closed the shop down for lunch, locked the doors for a half hour from 12 to 1230. So everybody goes to lunch at once and everybody comes back at once. Very similar to a doctor's office, but we started that. Transition, I'll call it a transition. During CO when COVID started we get everything in Monday through Thursday. We really didn't have any appointments coming in. We'd just be finishing stuff up on Fridays. Yeah. And so we didn't really have any customers necessarily calling in, 'cause they all knew we were closed on a, or we were closed for taking a, we would take appointments. But as far as customers coming in, dropping cars off, nobody was coming in the door. It was all, a goal of trying to minimize the amount of contact between people. And we kept that and was it 2022? I think we're like, what about four tens? And to be honest with you, my brother did not want, he's it's not gonna work. It won't work. It's not gonna work. And after, doing a lot of research, it's let this is here's, people have done it. This, if you wanna try it, but it's not gonna work. Two a month or two months of, he is that's the best thing we ever did. I'm never gonna go back to working five days a week. So he, but he was the, it was, again, it's that I think we set ourself up during COVID to be able to switch to the four tens, because Fridays were really a. They were a day that really, there was this, there's a lot of work going on in the shop, but nothing, no customer activity, no customer other than maybe a scheduling of phone calls and scheduling, no one is coming in the office. So it, it really we set it up to where we were able to do that and actually have a pretty seamless transition to going from Monday through Friday to Monday through Thursday schedule. And, in the collision industry, it's not it has not been adopted very well. I don't think some shops are doing it, but not a lot of 'em are. The mechanical side though, you see a lot of shops switching to the four tenants. And yeah it's a great tool for it know, employee acquisition, retention. Everybody likes a three day weekend, so you can't keep that. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Imagine having a three day weekend every weekend. So what about those days where there's a holiday Monday Micah Storm: We close Monday, we're open. They got a four day weekend. Jimmy Lea: Cool. I love that. Micah Storm: It's. They, they work hard. Our team works hard for our shop, for my brother and I, and again it's okay to give 'em an extra day off and, let them enjoy their, have time. And we just, for Christmas, we just, we close the week at Christmas for our, to our shop. Just, we close down. Everybody gets, spend time with their family. It's just I, it's. It's part of taking care of your people, and it's, Jimmy Lea: that's awesome. I'll bet they were shocked that you gave them that full entire week off. Micah Storm: Yeah. And being four tens also makes it a little bit easier because we usually close Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Micah Storm: So when Chris, when Christmas falls in the middle of a week and you're like going, okay, we're only gonna be open two days anyways, and then we're gone for four days or six, five days, and then we're back for two and then off again. It's like, why don't we just close and, give everybody a little more extra rest. Family time. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. That's awesome. Yeah. Family time. Yeah. When you're taking care of your people, then your people will take care of you, Micah Storm: correct? Most definitely. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Micah Storm: most definitely. We have our longest term employee there Tim, he's been there 31 years, I think. He's one of the body techs. Most, a lot of our employees have been there, been with us for at least 10 years. We've got some new addition as far as needing more. New, more people and more employees. But the ones that are there typically are, have been there for a long time. And again, it's just we respect that and appreciate the time they put in, invested in for us. And it's like I said you gotta give it back, Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. It sounds like you're still the new kid until you've been there for 10 years. Yeah. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. No, that's really cool. Hey on the collision side what are the top three to five numbers that you pay attention to the most so that you know that the shop's going in the right direction? Same question, but on the automotive side as well. But give us the collision side first. 'cause I haven't done much with collision, so this is all new information you're giving me, Micah Storm: so I'll be a hundred percent honest. I'm not a numbers guy. Oh I, the numbers are important. They give you a snapshot. But ag yes. I know, again, I know some shops, they're driven by the numbers and I, we're not, my brother and I, it's just, you can tell where we're sitting. You get a good feel for where you're shitting. But again, at the end of the year. What where the, where are the numbers sitting is the reality where it's at. So I don't really look at numbers day to day. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Micah Storm: What I look at, is, like I said, I look at capture rate of an estimate. How many estimates we writing, how many are we getting? If we're not getting the estimates, we're not gonna have the work. They coming in the door. So it, that's, that to me is an important, that's an important number to have. And if, that's, I do every once in a while, glance at the, where are we sitting as far as our, part, how much the, I guess your gross, where that's sitting. But I don't look at it every day. I probably look at it. Some of them maybe once a week and others once a quarter. It's like I say you run you collect and you get paid for what you do. And I, there's not necessarily a need to be constantly looking at the numbers and seeing where you're at. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You can run your business, you can have a pretty good feel of where things are. It sounds like you still have a couple of numbers that you're looking at on the daily that, that gives you a good indication of, Hey, we're in a good spot. But it's not something that you're constantly monitoring on the every five minutes. Micah Storm: No. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, Micah Storm: I like again, it's just. I've actually worked at a shop that was a very numbers driven shop. Yeah. And I, it was, it's all about the bottom dollar. And I guess I don't want my team to feel that way. It's about, I want them to know they come to work. They're there because we trust them. They're good at what they do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Micah Storm: They get the job done. They do a good job. Yeah. And that's, it's not all about numbers. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And Micah, I think if you were to be tracking the numbers on the daily and you were to pay attention to that was your focus of where you were paying attention to the numbers that way. I don't think. Your employees would feel like the most, the only important thing was the bottom dollar. I think your company, your culture your feel would say, here's the bottom dollar, but a number one, we gotta take care of our customers. We gotta take care of the business because that's what, take care of that bottom number. I, I think you would still have because you're aware of it. I think your team would be aware of it as well. And it wouldn't be just about the bottom dollar, it'd be about the client, the customer. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Okay. Speaking of clients and customers who is the final sign off on cars before they leave the shop? Who's your QC? Micah Storm: So it's actually our does QC is our parts guy. It goes Oh, really? Yes. He, it actually goes to several QCs. So we have our detailers, obviously they're working on it, they're putting their hands on every part of the car when they clean it up for on the collision side. We have our parts guy will actually go over line by line to make sure everything got done on it on the Es, on the repairer. And it's, it's, we give them, we give our employee or. In this case, the parts guy said, this is what we want. This is what the, this is the quality I want. This is what we want out of it. And give it, make sure he, he understands what we're looking for. That's and he does a good job of it. He's make sure it's done. I, again, I don't go micromanage and say, you're this and this. It's like I delegate it out. I would rather delegate it. I can only do so much. And I figured by the time it gets through our detail department and it gets through a second check after it's all done it's been looked over very well. And again, every everybody's aware of what we're looking for, the kind of work we wanna turn out. And if something's not right, they're gonna say something. Jimmy Lea: So true. So true. I love that you've got multiple people with hands-on looking at the vehicles. I bet you don't have very many com comebacks. Micah Storm: No, I, they, if their comment's not right, we're gonna take care of it before it, say, Hey we're not happy with it. Do I need to repaint something? Maybe the color doesn't match as close to, we were what we were thinking. It's I'm gonna, I gotta take care of this. Sorry, it's gonna take a little bit longer, but I wanna make sure it's right when it leaves. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so important. Yeah, because when you're in mixing and paint, it oxidizes at different rates. So if you're painting that quarter panel it's oxidized differently, the hood compared to the rest of the vehicle. You gotta make sure it all looks good. Micah Storm: Especially like today's, you got Tri Trico, you got matte finishes, all these new paints that are coming out. And sometimes what used looks good inside on in the paint booth under some lights, you put it outside in the sun or something and it's okay, this does not look the same as it did in the shop. That ha that happens. That's just, that's life. That's, you gotta deal with it and take care of it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Micah Storm: But that. It's, paints have changed over the years. Like I said, a lot of these new colors, they look, they're cool, they look good, but man, they can be a pain to, to make sure it turns out right. So Jimmy Lea: It's true. It's true. And as a colorblind person, there are things that are obvious to me that are bad color matches, but for a lot of it, I'd be like, yeah, it looks good. And you'd be like Micah Storm: No, Jimmy Lea: we're gonna fix that. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: I think we, they're one out of 12 people is colorblind. Really? Or lefthand might be left-handed. No, I don't remember. I, we went down a rabbit hole the other night, colorblind and left-handed people, and just having a good time. My dad's left-handed. I'm colorblind. Micah Storm: Because the best of both worlds. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, sure. That's it. Let's go with that. I know the people there in the Northwest Bainbridge and up in that area, they're very relationship driven. What is your approach? What do you do to build that trust and communication with your clients up in Bainbridge? Micah Storm: Be honest, be real. If you make a mistake, own it, take care of it. As, as far as we do a lot with our community we're, we have, I could rattle off all kinds of things that we do with our community. We have a, a. The rotary auction that's up in this area on Bainbridge, just one of the, it's last year we raised over a million dollars in, in, in one day sale of, with a sale. Oh, 1 million, over a million dollars in one, one day. And it's so we donate to that. We donate our time. If we have garbage pickup we do on the highway sponsor sports teams. We like I said, we do a awful lot. We do a car show four times a year. All the money we raise goes to project backpack. It helps kids get into school, buy supplies for school. That we, that was, I think we hit, we almost hit $10,000 last this last year. But again, it, being involved with the communities was, is so important. Especially with the the relationships, I, I always say that probably 80% of the businesses or people, actually 80% of the people on Bainbridge Island know who we are. We may not work in all their cars, but they know the name, they know who we are. They know what we do for our community. They know, that, they can bring their car. Us, we can fix it. And they know some of that's gonna go back into the community. Some of whether it's time or money's gonna go back into the community. So it's very important to, to be there for them. 'cause it's they're, they write the check, they pay the bills. They, that's you gotta get back to 'em. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's it is true. It is true. The relationship, communication is so important. So important, yeah. What's the future of Modern Collision? Where are you headed to next? Bigger, better, simpler. What are you looking for? Micah Storm: I'm gonna say better. There's always room for improvement. I don't necessarily think bigger is an answer. Yeah. You don't need to be bigger. If you've streamlined things, it, it can improve flow of the process. And that can actually getting better at what you do is I think a better way to. Improve and getting bigger. It's, at least that's my input on it. I don't need any more volume to deal with. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, that's true. There's a lot coming through there. Yeah. And I, there, props to you. You've got a phenomenal company, phenomenal business, great company, great culture. For those who don't know and none of them would know, but unless you're listening to this, Mike and I were set up to do this right before their Christmas lunch. And I said no. Micah, you do you take care of your people first. And he's no. I can do this. I can do this. Yeah. Okay. I'm calling it, you're not gonna do this. Let's do it in the new year. Let's circle back. So you're taking care of your people super I just props to you, brother. I love what you're doing, man. Keep it up. Micah Storm: Oh, thank you. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you're welcome. You're, you are welcome. So I, I wanna ask some questions now if I started my business today, questions. And if you were starting your business today, what, knowing what you know now What advice would you give yourself starting your business today? Micah Storm: I'd say. Join an association. An automotive association is important and not just joining it, but participate in it. We've. Yeah, I think it's so important. There's so many, they're networking. The ideas that are created at an association level with some of these events and things like that. That has probably been the number one thing that has helped me in the business. Business side of things and streamlining what we do is the events that I go to through, through the Northwest Autocare. I guess that would be my number one thing is like I said, is to join it and participate. The more you give to it, the more you're gonna get out of it. There's, that's the so important what is, what else? Is it higher personality? Not talent. You can teach somebody a job, but you can't teach somebody a personality. And, if you have the wrong person, sure, they may know everything in the world, but if you have the wrong person there, they're gonna, they're gonna tank everybody else. And that's, it I don't mind training people. I'm always willing to, whether they're young and outta high school or they're from a different industry and wanna move into the, into the collision or into the automotive field in general. I said I don't mind training 'em if they're the right person. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I totally agree with that. So second question here. What has been the most expensive mistake you've made in your career? And what would you do differently knowing what you know now? Same situation. What would you do differently? What's the most expensive mistake and what would you do differently? Micah Storm: Let's see. Mistake. Living life, you're always making mistakes. The most expensive one, I would say. That's a good question. I, what do you consider expensive too? What's the most expensive as far as relationship? Most expensive, dollar wise? Jimmy Lea: Your choice, Micah Storm: Mike, that, I guess most expensive, the mistake would be probably relationship wise in the industry as far as like with the cu between customers and stuff. It's being, again, being honest with your customer, own up to your mistakes. You end up starting to. Something doesn't go right, say, Hey, I messed up it, it's, I broke that. I'm sorry, I, I apologize, but I'm gonna take care of it. If you start making excuses and or don't own up to it, it, you'll lose a customer, you'll lose reputation, you'll lose I so much more. And then, bad news travels fast, especially on an island. It kinda hits Oh yeah, Jimmy Lea: for sure. Micah Storm: Hits the edge of the water and comes right back at you, and then hits, Jimmy Lea: Ricochets. It just bounces all around the island. So what is one of the best investments you ever made in your business? Whether it's training a higher Go ahead. Micah Storm: I say I'm gonna say the best investment is probably training. If you again, you train you're gonna learn how to either work on something new how to do something better. Again I think training is the best investment. Also s you know, personal training whether it's personalities and how to work with, I liked working with younger kids and helping them. Understand, especially outta high school, they're trying to figure life out. Not all of 'em had a great maybe not a great upbringing, but I can help them grow and become someone that they, it's become somebody that's. They appreciate where they're at. They like it they're en engaged in society. One of the kids, one success story we had is one, one of the kids that hired in high school, he washed cars and did stuff like that. But he runs a boat building business now that has, I think, over a hundred employees. They do. So they have government contracts that's like a. It's, he has 60,000 square foot facility he just built for be able to paint. Again, it's just to watch, teach them when they're young, out in high school and help them grow and understand and see, they may not stay in this industry, but it's rewarding to see where they end up. It's training, it's it's business training, it's personal training. It's, it's that's one of the biggest, I think the best investments. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Alright who should I interview next? Who is someone that you respect in the industry that's doing it the right way, that you think, oh, you know what, Jimmy, you need to do a podcast with this person. Micah Storm: Oh, Todd Innsworth. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I'd love to talk to Todd. Do you think he'd do it? Micah Storm: I'm sure he would. Oh, he's, oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: I'm gonna tell 'em you, you sent me over. Oh, Micah Storm: okay. Jimmy Lea: All right. Lightning round. Here we go quick. Okay. One word answers or one sentence answers. You ready? Micah Storm: Okay. Jimmy Lea: One word that describes your shop's culture. Micah Storm: Team. Jimmy Lea: Team. Oh, I love it. Your number one daily. KPI. You glance at first. We talked about that, but you don't have numbers that you're looking on the regular, Micah Storm: I guess capture rate of our estimates. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Hardest position to hire? Four. Micah Storm: I'd say a tech. Jimmy Lea: And by the, how many texts do you want right now? Two or three? Micah Storm: Two. Jimmy Lea: Two. Micah Storm: Use two. Jimmy Lea: Give Mike a call. Favorite vehicle to work on? Micah Storm: Don't laugh, a Volvo two forties. The wagons, the sedans. No way. Yes. Jimmy Lea: That's hilarious. Micah Storm: I know those are like back of my hand. Jimmy Lea: That is awesome. That's hilarious. What's the car you hate working on the most? Are you secretly dread working on Micah Storm: Land Rover? Jimmy Lea: Best tool you've ever bought? Micah Storm: I'd say software. D The dvs. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Micah Storm: They can pay for themselves. Jimmy Lea: Oh, totally. Amen brother. Amen. What's a habit that made you a better leader? Micah Storm: Practicing emotional intelligence. That's, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Love it. What's a book that shaped how you run your business? Micah Storm: It's actually probably I gives you two. One is the ideal team player. That's yeah, that's an awesome book for hiring people. I can't tell you enough about that one. The other one I think is, like I said, probably Emotional Intelligence 2.0. Those, the two books? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That emotional intelligence one, that, that's a heavy read man. It. It's intense. It's got a lot of really good information in there. I'm in the middle of reading the emotional intelligence again. Yeah, because I've read it once and now I need to go back and read it again. Biggest time waster in most shops. Micah Storm: I'd say probably the biggest time waster. I'm gonna see him. I look employees not getting along. And I, you deal with drama. I think it wastes a lot of time in, in most shops. I think we're lucky at ours. We hire again for the personality, not the talent. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. What is a non-negotiable standard? You refuse to compromise on Micah Storm: quality. Jimmy Lea: Amen, brother. Finish this sentence. The future of the collision and service industry belongs to shops that Micah Storm: adapt. You have to adapt. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you do. You do. It's an ever changing world. Micah Storm: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Ever changing world, man. Awesome. Micah, thank you so much for joining me, brother. I I really appreciate it. Micah Storm: Thank you. Appreciate that.

195 - The Questions Every Auto Repair Shop Owner Should Be Asking March 13, 2026 - 00:53:14 Show Summary: Entrepreneurial drive can turn destructive when shop owners chase ideas without discipline. Impulsive spending and constant pivots create stress at home and in the business. Stability comes from personal responsibility and honest self reflection. Counseling and trusted advisors help owners slow decisions and see problems clearly. Strong routines and clear boundaries create healthier leadership. Long term success requires better communication and the courage to address hard truths.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:00:36]  – The episode opens with a tough question about destructive cycles in shop ownership. [00:01:40] – Repeated impulsive decisions and constant pivots are framed as warning signs. [00:03:15] – Counseling is presented as a strength, not a weakness. [00:05:27] – Serious debt becomes a key marker of unhealthy behavior. [00:07:31] – Big purchases need structure, delay, and outside accountability. [00:10:00] – Routines and systems can reduce stress and prevent bad decisions. [00:15:12] – Personal responsibility is essential for change and long term stability. [00:18:12] – Boundaries and better responses can shift unhealthy relationship patterns. [00:28:12] – Avoiding hard conversations allows damage to keep growing. [00:38:10] – Calm, fact based conversations build trust and create a path forward.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/_vTLf1P2xbM   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: Welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you everybody for being here today. I am here with Cecil Bullard. Cecil, how are you buddy? Cecil Bullard: I'm doing fantastic. Lucas. You know, it's, uh, it's not Friday, but it's, uh, but we're almost there. Lucas Underwood: Close up, right? We're getting there. Uh, Cecil. Hey, listen, so I got a message last night. Okay. And it was a little concerning. It was from a dear friend of mine, um, and it was, it was actually from his wife. And, and they're going through some struggles right now. You've been doing this a long time. They're shop owners, and I just want, I've, I've summarized the message. I'm not gonna, uh, expose who they are or anything like that, but I've summarized the message, I've brought it way down. I have a couple questions that I wanna start with in this episode. We're gonna dive off the deep end in this. Is that okay with you? Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. I'm ready to go with you. Lucas Underwood: Okay. In the shop owner world, how do you distinguish between normal entrepreneurial stress and behavior that might signal a deeper mental health issue? I know of a shop owner who goes through repeated cycles of extreme enthusiasm and big decisions, buying equipment or vehicles, talking about expanding to multiple locations, launching new services like towing or obsessing over competitors. Then shortly after they regret the decision, get discouraged, withdraw, or pivot to something completely different. Now, Cecil, this is not just once we've seen this cycle. This, this is, we're, we're 10, 15 times deep at this point. The pattern also shows up financially, large, impulsive purchases or debt in leadership difficulty with sticking with a plan. And they, they, they'll say, Hey, we're gonna do this. And they'll, they even have a coach and they'll say, Hey, I'm gonna do this. We're gonna make this happen. Then it all falls apart and in constantly chasing the next big idea, instead of stabilizing what they're already doing. Right. Like they, they have it together. All they have to do is be there and lead and guide their team and take 'em to the next level. So the first question is, how common is this cycle in the industry? Cecil Bullard: Well, I, I would tell you, you know, after, I don't know, 27 years or whatever it is of doing this, that, that the cycle's very common. Um, and I don't know. I don't know that it's an industry challenge as opposed to a human being challenge. I used to think there was a normal, like, Hey, maybe I'm normal or I'd like to be normal. Yeah. And um, the older I get, the more experience I have, the less I think there's a normal. Okay. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: And so number one, right? Um, entrepreneurial spirit means, uh. I want to do something. I want to do something special. Certainly I've had that entrepreneurial spirit. I'm also, um, a little bit obsessive compulsive and a little bit manic depressive myself, and a lot of the people in my family have these traits. My mother was way manic depressive. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um. Even bordering on what, what most people today would call mentally ill. Right. And so, you know, learning to, to deal with that, learning to deal with it in your own self. Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm. Cecil Bullard: And, uh, you know, I would say unfortunately, most of us are kind of blind to it ourselves. Yeah. 'cause when we're in the, if I'm in the moment, like this new thing that's so exciting and everything Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Everything else goes away. Right. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, I could be, I could be called, I mean, my wife could have called you and. Maybe he told you the same thing. Uh, Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: Pattern over years and years and years. I'm so excited about this new shop and, and I'm gonna do that. And then, and then it gets a little hard and I get distracted. And now I'm over here doing this other new project and this other new project, even the institute, um, if it weren't for other people here that could stay focused on one thing, um, we couldn't be where we are or who we are. If it was just up to me, 'cause I would be moving around too much. Lucas Underwood: I resemble that remark. I really do. Yeah. And here's the thing is, you know, I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety and went and spoke with somebody and, and I got really lucky because I found a therapist who I really connected with and, and first of all, I just wanna say like. I know we're supposed to be big, strong, tough men. There's nothing wrong with going and talking to a therapist. As a matter of fact, I think if you want to be your best version of yourself, that you should do it even if you're perfectly healthy and you don't have any concerns whatsoever. I, Cecil Bullard: I think that, uh, I don't know, 35 years ago I was, um, the guy that said counseling, no way. Never for me, not gonna happen. Yeah. You know, blah, blah, blah. Had a problem. My wife, um, was ready to divorce me. Uh, we went to see a counselor. I, I would tell you that is some of the best money I've ever spent in my entire life. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Uh, learning, learning, learning skills that you don't have. It's like, it's almost like getting a coach, um, you know, for your, for your business. Okay? You have a coach telling you, Hey, you should raise your labor rate, or you should fix your parts margins, or, here's how you manage people, create process, you know, all of that. In a, in a, um, a situation where I might see someone, a counselor, um, that counselor is probably helping me create strategies for me to deal with the world, right? Yeah. Because again, I don't, I don't think there's a normal, my mom, Lucas Underwood: amen. Cecil Bullard: Was very abusive. My dad was a, a wonderful guy, but not home. He was obsessed with work. And part of that, I think as I've grown older was that I think he didn't want to be home because there was a crazy woman that lived there with his kids and Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And uh, what, and back then you didn't divorce. I mean, you know, that was no way. And, um, yeah. And so you have, I don't know, you said something I think's important is, you know, when is it? Normal or, or up to what point. And then when, yeah, and I think, I think if you're getting yourself in serious financial debt. Yeah. So, you know, and then, Hey Cecil, what's serious finance of debt? Oh, I don't know. A million. Eh, Lucas Underwood: it's not that much. Well put this way, Cecil Bullard: but serious. If Lucas Underwood: it's this way, if it's, we went and bought $140,000 truck. Yeah. We financed it at a very high interest rate, and now we wanna refinance the house. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Because we've also stuck some other financing in that truck too. Cecil Bullard: Well, and the problem is that you, you, you, you work all your life to. Like pay off the house and all of a sudden you're financing the house because you've gone out and spent money in places that you shouldn't have done. Yeah. Right. And I have people in my life that have spent lots of money, got, got themselves in serious, serious debt. And I, I mean, don't get me wrong in business, to me, debt kind of comes along with business if you're going to push the envelope and try to do things that other people aren't doing. Right, right. So Lucas Underwood: yeah, for Cecil Bullard: sure, for sure. If for sure, if the opportunity came along right now for me to buy. Another company that made sense that, that I thought would be really great for the, for the institute, et cetera. I, I'd go do it and I'd get in debt to do that. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: But, but I think if you're not, if you're not stopping and spending, you know, 48 hours or maybe even a week, thinking about the consequences and how you're gonna make the payments and what does that really look like, and Lucas Underwood: yeah. You know, Warren Buffet once said, he said, if somebody wants you to make a decision right now, it's typically in their favor, not yours. Cecil Bullard: It's a bad decision. Yeah. And it's almost always gonna be a bad decision because Lucas Underwood: yeah, Cecil Bullard: you're caught up in the moment. Especially if you have like obsessive compulsive romantic depressive, you know, if you're manic, you'll do almost anything. And then if you're depressive, you'll do almost nothing. Right. And it's, there's not an InBetween. Right, for Lucas Underwood: sure. Cecil Bullard: For sure. The switch is either on or off. Lucas Underwood: How important. So, so for me personally, right, the, the way that I've mitigated some of the anxiety and some of the other things, now, I'm not gonna lie, and I think you know this, the way that I've really managed my anxiety is I have put so much on my plate. I don't have time to worry, Cecil Bullard: to think about anything else, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Cecil Bullard: That's, that's what I do. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. But, but you know, the big things for me were, is that we built systems around my life, right? And standardized systems. Yes or no. Cecil Bullard: Coping, coping, coping mechanisms. Exactly. Um, so I have, um, I have anxiety, uh, when I'm in big crowds and you would think, oh, well wait a minute. That's Cecil. He, you know, he, he's there a lot. But you'll see me, um. Accounting, uh, doing different things. Right. And those are coping mechanisms that, that you develop over for sure. Um, a lifetime to, to reduce the amount of stress that you feel under certain situations, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: absolutely. Um, and, and, and that's another thing that a counselor will help you with, right? Um, so as an example, I have a shop owner and his wife, and he's a nice guy. I, I, I, I've, I've, I've known him for a hundred years and. I was working with him probably 10 years ago. Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm. Cecil Bullard: And the wife, um, was working with him and he was borderline abusive with her in front of, verbally abusive with her in front of staff, in me, staff meetings, et cetera. And she, all she did was cry and, and, and leave and shut, you know, run away. And, and, um, I had a talk with her and I said, what can you control? Can you control him? No, you can't. Right? It's, it's up to him to control him. But, but you can control yourself. So what you're currently doing is not getting you what you want. The kind of behavior. Yeah. How you're treating him, how you're dealing with, sure. What he does somehow is making him feel bigger or better or whatever, instead of the other way around. I said, what if we tried a different behavior? And I think that's what, I think that's what you, you do when you have counseling. You have a counselor that says, well, yes, you're not able to communicate this way. So. What if you did this instead, right? Yeah. What if your behavior was different? Um, um, Lucas Underwood: because I, I think that's, Cecil Bullard: yeah, Lucas Underwood: I think that's huge. And, and look, here's the other side of that is, is one of the things that I worked on was routine. My wife has been phenomenal for me for this because it's like when I come home, I put my keys in a certain place. And when I get up in the morning, I know where my keys are. That's, and she, she helped me build those routines that add some, some safety for me. Stability. Does that make sense? In other words? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It's, it's less stress. It's like I just know what to do and it's not something I have to think about. And, and those were things that we worked on and, and building routines in your life that protect you from behaviors. Right. I'm not saying that like you can protect yourself from every behavior in every episode, but you can create routines that help prevent things. Cecil Bullard: Well, and so if you go around and say spending money Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, maybe I have some limits that I put on that, that I can't make that decision without talking to two other people. Yeah. Like, uh, uh, I'm gonna talk to my wife if I'm gonna spin. A lot of money. Mm-hmm. I, I'm not, and, and, and by the way, for me, I'm not really asking permission. I just need her to know what I'm thinking. Yeah. What I'm up to and to give me some counseling around whether or not I'm thinking Right. Or, or not thinking. Right. Yeah, exactly. That outside perspective, I may still do it. Right. And then maybe you have a business, uh, coach or a, or, or a mentor that you also have a con, so you say to yourself, okay, I put ourselves in financial. Uh, risk too many times. Alright? Yeah. And too many might be twice, right? I mean, you've got, you, you, you work and work and work and you build and build and build. And then all of a sudden, you know, because you're in a manic state, you or you might be depressed. And the way out of it is to go buy $140,000 truck. Um, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so if you create some rules around that or structure and you say, okay, I can't spend more than 10 grand without, yeah. Going and having a two conversations, one with a, a, you know, a, a, a peer counselor and maybe one with my wife or my spouse, or, you know, whatever that is. Right? Lucas Underwood: An outside perspective, something to slow the process. Cecil Bullard: So, yeah, because at very least. If you, you know, if we waited a week and we thought about it and we said, man, I'm paying whatever it is, you know, 18% interest on this thing, 140,000. By the time I'm done, I'm gonna pay $400,000. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, is that a smart decision or not? No. It's probably not a smart decision as much as I want that truck. Uh, the truck I got Will, will do. Right. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: A Lucas Underwood: hundred percent. And Cecil Bullard: so structure, which again, a counselor, you know, my dad, uh, didn't cry. My dad didn't tell me he loved me, you know, until he was on his deathbed and, and I heard it. Right. Um. As he got older, I think he realized that, you know, real men can cry. It's okay. Right? Yeah, sure. In fact, maybe we should every once in a while, you know? Yeah. Just to, just to let some of that out. Um, right. But, but I, getting a counselor, if I, if I was doing. I do crazy things all the time. I mean, I think most of the people around me are like, man, that guy is wired. Yeah, Lucas Underwood: that's what we hired Michael. Or for, I don't know if you know that or not. Yeah. But Cecil Bullard: yeah, that's Keep an eye on Lucas Underwood: me. Cecil Bullard: No, I think that's Wayne and Kent, the two of them kind. Lucas Underwood: No, they're the enforcers. Michael's the one that's saying red flags, boys red Cecil Bullard: flags. Watch out. But, but I think, I think if you understand that, yeah, and, and again, not. What's normal, right? I mean, if you, if you really wanted to know what's normal, it probably really is someone going out and buying $140,000 truck because they're depressed or because they're upset or because they're not getting out of their relationship what they want or their business what they want. And that's probably more normal. And so they, but that's also destructive behavior, right? Yeah. And so I think the way you know Lucas is, is my be behavior destructive to me or. Other people around me. Right. Yeah. That's the, maybe that's the judgment call, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And I, I think in a lot of ways, you know, for, for one, I, I've gotta say this. Jordan Peterson said something, I was watching one of his videos a while back, and he said, I am a firm believer that about 70% of all the people who come into a clinical psychology practice do not have mental illness, but their life has become so complex they don't know how to manage it. And, and my job is to break that down and help them begin to find tools to navigate through that. In this case, this individual, every single time we've gotten here. Has come up with a, a reason, an excuse that it's not them. And they begin to place blame on everything around them. And it's all, well, that's, it's this, no, it's this. No, it's this. No, it's this. Instead of taking that ownership. Cecil Bullard: Well, that's kind of the other thing. And I, I, I don't, I don't, I think you and I actually kind of had this conversation. It's about taking in our podcast we did last week. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Are you taking personal responsibility or not, right? Yes. Am I blaming this on everything else? I mean, here, here's the deal. Uh, as I grew up, my mom was physically, verbally, mentally abusive, right? I mean, literally for the first 13 years of my life, she told me what a worthless. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: X, X, X, XI was every day, many times a day. Right. And, and that was often accompanied with anger. Mm-hmm. Um, being kicked hit with whatever there was. And, um, and so you, you grow up with that and you're like, well, you know, I'm, I got my weird stuff because it's my mom's fault. Right, right. So I'm gonna let, let me blame my mom. Well, if you blame mom, you can't get, you can't get rid of it. You can't get out of it. Right, right. If it's not, if it's not what you do. Who you are, right? It's someone else's in control or, or something that happened to you 10 years ago. Amen. Now controls your lives. Amen. Then you, you're stuck. You're trapped. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. When you own the problem, by God, you own the solution. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And you know, I think that that, number one, that might give you a little more frustration, right? Yeah. So why am I feeling like this? Oh, well your mom was mean to you and she told you you were worthless. Okay, so. But, but you also can, if, if you're, if you can be aware. And if you can say, okay, you know, when was the last time? I mean, my mom's been gone for 10 years now, maybe 12. And, and, um, prior to that, I didn't, you know, for the last 30 years of my life, I really haven't, she hasn't been in my life in the way that she could influence my life on a daily basis. So, for the, at least the last 30 years, who's had control of my life. Yeah, well, guess what? This is the guy, right? Amen. Lucas Underwood: So every, if you leave Cecil Bullard: that Lucas Underwood: toxic person in your life, Cecil Bullard: yeah, Lucas Underwood: hey, that's still your fault, right? Cecil Bullard: Like, I hate that. And the other thing is like that, but so, so putting it down in, in, in kind of shop owner, uh, uh, you, you asked about like in the shop. So yeah, I teach classes about management, leadership and sales and, and you know, I'll say, here's what you probably ought to do and yada, yada, yada. And, and. At the end of almost every class, I have someone come up to me and they say, well, my owner won't do this or won't do that, and yet the owner's the one that paid for you to be here. And so Lucas Underwood: right. Cecil Bullard: For me, it's like I have to decide what I'm willing to accept in my life. If I went home and my wife started yelling at me about, you know, what a worthless piece of crap I am. I've look at me, I'm 64 years old and I haven't been financially successful yet, and I'm in debt and, and you know, oh, you're always gone and you're, you know, blah, blah, blah. I'd get rid of her. I mean, and it's not like I don't love her, right? Yeah. But I can't have that, uh, acidity in my life. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right. It's not healthy for me. Right. And if I'm not healthy, I can't help other people around me be healthy. Right. A hundred percent. So Kent calls it setting boundaries and Yeah. Lucas Underwood: You Cecil Bullard: know, sometimes I think God. Damn Kent, you have a boundary for everything. But maybe that's the right thing is, is really right. Being very clear about what you need or what you want or, or the boundaries in your life. Right? Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: And I, yeah, and then, so I had the conversation with the, the wife and I said, well, what if instead of this you did something different instead, just say, instead of crying and, and rushing out and you know, et cetera. What, what if you said. You know, I don't think that's really appropriate here amongst the employees to have that conversation right now, to be, to, for you to treat me that way. Yeah. And and she did. And guess what? Lucas Underwood: He stopped. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right. So I, I think. Part of the, for me, I want to have control over my own emotions and my own life. And that's, that's hard, right? Yeah. And sometimes it's not even possible. I mean, I'll see some weird movie and I'll, it, it'll make me cry. Right. Right. And I don't, I, I don't even know why. Right. Yeah. I'm just like, I. Why am I crying about this is the stupidest thing and here's this, you know, 64-year-old guy sitting there, oh my God, you know, he's dead and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, that's not even real. It's just a damn movie. But most of the time, I'm, I go, okay, this is what I'm willing to accept or not willing to accept. And, and when a service advisor comes to me or a manager and says, my owner won't X, Y, Z, right? My, my advice is this, first of all. Figure out do do the pluses of being in that place and, and working for that person. They outweigh the minuses, right? Because the minuses are gonna be there. I you, you've been, I don't know how long you've been married. Um, I got four kids. I got four kids ranging from, I don't know, 30 to to 40. Right. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: And, and they have given me grief, uh, and pleasure beyond, uh, what I thought I could endure. I mean, right. You know, happiness, that, that, that is, is overwhelming and pain. That's overwhelming. And do I think that in the next 20 years that's gonna disappear because I, I just want it to No, it it, you ha you're in business. Business is always a challenge. I mean, don't, don't be wrong. There might be days here where nothing goes wrong. I don't have any clients that are upset or everything's perfect, you know? No, no employees. But you know, the bigger your business gets, the more people you have in your life, the bigger your family gets, the more opportunity to have challenges. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, Cecil, the very first business coach I had, I called him one time and I tears in my eyes so upset over all these things that have gone wrong, right? I said, man, I said, I just want all these problems to go away. And he said, son, you listen to me when all those problems go away, you're dead. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Let's get rid of problems. If we think we're gonna escape the struggle of life, we've lost our minds. Right? Yeah. Like struggle is part of life. Sacrifice and pain is part of life. We can't just expect that to go away. I think it's, we can work to make it better though. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I think it's part of growth though, too. I mean, how do you. How do you experience extreme, um, joy without having experienced extreme sadness? Right. You know, you, you know, you know, family dies and passes away and, and that's challenging, right? Yeah. I mean, it's extremely challenging. Some people more than others, and. And if I think that's not gonna happen to me, um, I, I am crazy, right? Yeah. I mean, and I for Lucas Underwood: sure, Cecil Bullard: I love talking to owners. 'cause I'm like, well, today, this morning I'm talking to a guy and he's got a service advisor and it's a, this person's a problem. They've literally decided that his pricing's too high and that the community can't afford anything and blah, blah, blah. And his sales have dropped by 40%. I'm like, dude. He's like, yeah, I don't, you wanted this. Yeah, you bought the business. You signed your name to the the lease. You're the one that's responsible. You have to make decisions, and if you think that you're gonna have a business and never have any paying you. Yeah, Lucas Underwood: aint, go Cecil Bullard: ahead. You are, you're gonna be disappointed a lot in your life. It's, yeah, it's, and I don't know. For me, the challenges are things that make it exciting, not necessarily when I'm in the middle of it, and it's the most painful or the most stressful. Right. But you know, before thinking about, well, man, we could do this or this, and then after thinking about, man, we solved that problem. It's, it's, it's what makes the highs, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent. So let me ask you about my friend. Um, for one, when does it cross from normal entrepreneurial volatility? Like, when, Cecil Bullard: when, when is it? When it's hurting the people around you now, now I, and I don't mean in a sense of, well, my wife's mad at me. Okay. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: My wife has been mad at me a lot. And I'm pretty sure that, you know, I've made some decisions and she's just shaking her head going, I don't know what that idiot's doing this time. Right. And yeah, but she doesn't, she, she, she's non, she's non-confrontational. Married a woman who's non-confrontational, which for me is probably good. But Lucas Underwood: you'd have been dead Cecil Bullard: by now if I'm, if I'm putting my, my family Lucas Underwood: in Cecil Bullard: jeopardy at risk. Now, and, and again, there's different risk tolerances. So for me, you know, when I first signed my first house, it was a hundred thousand dollars and I thought it was the end of the world. My God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna owe forever. And how am I gonna make these a thousand dollars payments? Well, you know, I bought another business. I spent over a million dollars on it, um, and, and most of that debt. And so I think, you know, tolerance of risk is different for different people. But if I'm really putting myself in a position where I'm, I'm accepting 18 or. 25% interest because I just gotta have this right now that is not healthy, right? If I can't recognize that, that's a behavior, that's probably not a good behavior to have, then it's not healthy if, if, if I can't talk to my wife about it and, and have an open conversation that's not healthy. Right. And so I think, I think every, I don't know, most shop owners I know have this entrepreneurial spirit. And it's different than, than the people that just come to work for you. Right? Right, Lucas Underwood: right. For Cecil Bullard: sure. And thank God that we have that, because otherwise there'd be no businesses. There'd only be people that need jobs. Right. And Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: But is it. I don't know. There's harmful relationships, which you have to be careful of too because, uh, I don't, I don't know their situation. I don't know them like you do. And I don't know if, if, is the wife contributing to this Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Or not. Sure. But that's, that's why I need a counselor here. That's why I need to get somebody in the middle. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Who's trained and who, uh, who who can go, that's not healthy. And maybe I go first. Yeah. And then maybe I invite my wife with me down the road once I've figured out that my behavior is not healthy. Lucas Underwood: You bring up a really valid point is, is in life and in relationships there's casualties, right? Yeah. And, and so I impact my wife, whether I'm mean to or not. Cecil Bullard: You impact a lot of people, whether you mean to or not, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. And, and what I say and what I do matters, and sometimes I'm not polished on what I say and sometimes I'm not paying attention to how I'm acting and I'm letting emotion control, you know, I tell people all the time, there is no room for emotion in business. It doesn't work. I've tried it. Right. Like I, it just does not work for me. And so if, if I am having emotional responses, there's a chance that I impact someone I love and someone I care about. And I don't think that we can have a relationship without negatively impacting that other person at times. I don't think there's a way to avoid that. Cecil Bullard: Well, yeah. No. No matter what. Yeah. No matter what we, you know, and that's the. Give and take of relationships. I mean, yeah. You know, you and I, I, I've been married for I don't know how many years now, 43. I think we just celebrated our 43rd anniversary and, right. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. It, it's been tough, right? Yeah. I mean, probably harder on her than me. Yeah. I, Cecil Bullard: you and I, and you and I have known each other for a long time, and I'm pretty sure that at some point you've probably said, ah, man, that Cecil, I just, you know, I pissed you off at some point, or I said something that you didn't like, or that's where. That's where understanding the human condition and having some love in your heart and, and some forgiveness in your heart is super important, right? Yeah. I mean, I, I would say in this particular case, I think both, uh, the, both spouses need to look at how they're interacting with each other. Okay. And, and so who knows? You know, why, why does someone do that and put the family at risk and then wanna mortgage the house? Uh, you know, we, my wife and I, not too long ago, we had a 7,000 square foot house. The kids were gone. Uh, my wife is not as physically able as she used to be, so she can't get down on her knees and clean the bathroom. And, and I, and I have a hard time doing that. And Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: But I'm also a clean freak, so, so the bathroom's gotta be clean and, and I couldn't keep up the house and I, so I, I put the house on the market and I did tell her, and we had a conversation, but she was very resentful of that. Right. You know, we've lived here for 28 years. This is my home, and you're selling my home out from under me. And we went to, we went to see a counselor. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And the counselor said, you know, Cecil, why are you doing this? I said, I, I, I can't keep it up. I can't, like, I can't, I can't live in a filthy condition. It's not in me. Right. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: Um, and, and I can't do all of it myself and my wife is not physically able to do that. We need to be in a more controlled situation. And the counselor looked at my wife and, and said, he's not trying to take away your home. He's trying to create a home that the two of you can live together well, that you can both be comfortable in. And, and so that was. You know, it took a counselor, I think, to help us both, to come to terms with that. We still sold the house, right? Yeah. And, and we're moving on with our lives, but we can become resentful and we can do all kinds of, um, behaviors that we might not even know we're doing. To prove a point or to create something that we're just unaware of. Lucas Underwood: How often are these situations caused by our avoidance of hard conversations? Cecil Bullard: Oh, we don't communicate. That's a real problem. Like we don't talk about things, Hey, I'm feeling like this. Why? Why I'm not supposed to. I'm a man. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: right. You, you started this out kinda like, well, yeah, real men don't cry and we don't talk about our feelings and we don't, I mean, I, if I'm disappointed in, in my family or my wife or, or my, even my employees or, or whatever, I'm like, I don't want to have that conversation. That's not a comfortable conversation. Right. Lucas Underwood: For sure. Cecil Bullard: But I think, I think if you don't, if you're not able to have that conversation, then it doesn't get better. It gets worse. Right. So your behavior gets more Lucas Underwood: coming back to Kent's boundaries, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right, right. And Kent's boundary's, like my boundary would probably be further over here and he, but his boundary's here, but he has a very solid boundary. And Kent gets mad at me 'cause like sometimes I don't have the boundaries that I need. Right. Yeah. He feels like, Hey dad, you're not, you're not you. Why do you put up with this? Why do you let so and so do this to you and whatever? And I'm like, well. You know, I, I am who I am, right? Yeah. And Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, uh, which is an imperfect human being. Who, which is what I'm supposed to be. Yes. You know, working on doing the best I can every single day. And I would go back to am I taking personal accountability, right, Lucas Underwood: right. Cecil Bullard: For my actions and the results of my actions. And then am I harming the people around me, right. Yeah. Or not am I adding And, and I can't go through life without creating some harm. Right, but am I, am I continuously, am I consistently creating harm and danger, uh, in the lives of other people? Who cares if I go broke and I, you know, end up Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: You know, being homeless, I'll go live on a beach in Hawaii or something, but, but, um, what if I take my family with me, or I take Lucas Underwood: yes, Cecil Bullard: my business with me and the people that rely on that? That's not healthy. Right. Lucas Underwood: Right. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So let me ask you this. Now, we, we've isolated that it's not healthy. We, we've determined that something needs to be done, something needs to be said. But in many cases, especially with the shop owners that I've worked with, it's a very difficult conversation. Very difficult conversation. Mm-hmm. And we have a really hard time getting them to acknowledge this and, and take ownership of this, at least to a degree. Or, or, and, and when I say degree, I'm saying like, Hey, some of this, not all of this, but some of this may actually be your fault and you have to do something to fix it. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And, and listen, I'm the same way. Like you, you, the, I guess it was a month ago, you came to me and said, you need to raise your labor rates. What did I do? I went in and I raised my labor rates while we were on the call. Right. I didn't ask, I didn't question, I didn't do anything. I just did what you said and, and 10 years ago I would've cried for two months about it. Yeah, right. Like I would've complained. I would've fussed, I would've said that Cecil's an idiot. I would've, right. I would've come up with all these things, but I've recognized to shortened my pathway to growth, I have to take. Immediate action. When someone I trust gives me perspective and feedback, I, and I analyze the situation, right? I know the data and I say, Hey, listen, I know they're not leading me wrong. I agree with them. It was uncomfortable, but I'm gonna make the decision and if there's a consequence, there's a consequence. This is what I'm doing. And so that takes time to acquire that. In this case, this friend of mine has been doing this for years, right? Yeah. And never taking it. And it, it, we get better, we get worse, we get better. And I listen. If there's anything that's ever exhausted me about myself in my life, it's the seesaw. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Going up, going up, going up. Oh, back down, back down, back down, back down. Right. I can't like that will wear you out. And so you have to break that cycle. How do we help them do that, Cecil? Cecil Bullard: Well, you know, as a, as a coach who often is a counselor, um, I have to build trust with you to a point that if I make a comment or if I say, Hey, we need to do something, that you actually take that seriously. Okay. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And I also have to realize that. I can't just blindly go raise your labor rate. Right. I mean, yeah, Lucas Underwood: for sure. Cecil Bullard: Because for you it's like, for me it's, it's just words I'm saying. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And I, I have a lot of experience to back all that up, but, but for you, it's, it's like, well, what if I do, and what if I lose all my customers? And what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if? So I have to build trust with you, and, and what we need to do as human beings is we need to not only find people, but create those relationships of trust with different people in our lives, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, um. You and I have known each other a very long time. You came to some classes 25 years ago. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: They helped you. You went to another coach, he helped you, you, you did some other classes, you know, and at some point we ran into each other and I said, okay, now it's time for you to be my client. And we've developed, um. I think, uh, not just a friendship, but also a, um, like I trust you and I, I know that what you're doing is, is, is for the, for the best. You are always trying to do what you think is best. And I think that's the other thing, like if we're, if we're sitting around and going, why are they doing that to me? Oh my God. They're, they're, they're, they're, you know why they always put me in this position. We either have the wrong people in our life or we don't have the right um, attitude. Lucas Underwood: Right, Cecil Bullard: right, Lucas Underwood: right mindset, right perspective. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. My mindset is, you know, if I have people in my company that, that come here every day and work hard every day and, and love the company and, and espouse the company thing, that if they make a decision, they're not making a decision necessarily that's in their own interest. They're actually making a decision based on our foundational principles and based on, you know, what they believe to be. Best for the country company. Now, I might not agree with what they're doing, Lucas Underwood: right, Cecil Bullard: but if they're doing it in the best intention, right? Yeah. Then, then maybe this, this guy is doing what he's doing because he's really trying to provide for his family. But, and what he sees is if I have this nice truck, then I'm providing for my family. If I, and by the way, I can refinance the house, I mean, that's no big deal, and I can get a lower interest rate Lucas Underwood: insecurity. Cecil Bullard: But the problem is you keep. You keep doing that over and over, and when you get old, you don't have anything of any value left. Yeah. There's nothing there, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so I'm, I'm just, I'm saying you need to, number one, you gotta cultivate relationships of trust in your life, and you, you need to trust somebody. I mean, I, it, it would be very easy for me never to trust anybody. I mean, the, the one person that probably should have loved me the most didn't and didn't have the capacity to do that their entire life. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and so, but again, I, somewhere in my thirties, and, and by the way, it took me a long time. I was in my late thirties. I finally said it, it's not me, it's, it was her. And, and so I have to learn how to be me and how to be good with me. Right. Lucas Underwood: You know? There, there's, you've heard me talk about him many times. He's passed away now. His name was Tim Kite. Mm-hmm. Um, and he owned Focus three leadership and he did a presentation, um, for Ohio State Football. He was the culture coach for Ohio State Football. And he said something that always stood out to me. He said, love. Is given freely, it's never earned, and trust is earned. Yeah. And you better not mix those two things up. And he said, how do I gain trust through repeated behaviors? Yeah. You know that I'm gonna do what I say I'm going to do. Right. Well Cecil Bullard: my, Lucas Underwood: and I think that, Cecil Bullard: yeah, go Lucas Underwood: ahead. Cecil Bullard: It might be scary too, though, because this, yeah. If this particular person has repeatedly put them in debt and Lucas Underwood: mm-hmm. Cecil Bullard: Bought large purchases and et cetera, I'm, I'm not building trust by repeated behavior at this point. I'm actually creating stress and, and other stuff by repeated behavior. Lucas Underwood: Well, exactly. And, and that's what I was gonna say is, so now we, we take a step back and we say we're in a relationship. We are in a business partnership, right? Like this is not just about relationships. This is gonna be partnerships too. There's baggage that comes along with this. There, there, there's baggage in a relationship regardless of what kind of relationship it is. That one time Mrs. Smith said this about me and I'm, oh, I'm very sad about it. But we remember those things. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Lucas Underwood: And we have a responsibility of saying, okay, I have to reset the dial here. At some point because I, you know, one of the things about marriage is, is that vow says. This is forever. This is a forever thing. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We're Lucas Underwood: right. Cecil Bullard: This is not just for a week or until I get tired of looking at Lucas Underwood: you. Cecil Bullard: Here's where Lucas Underwood: it goes. Goes better or worse. Yeah. And worse can be pretty worse. Right? So Cecil Bullard: And they've done that. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. So when we, when we're in these situations, we at some point have to reset the dial. And I, I think as, as business partners and as as folks in relationships and marriages, we've gotta back up and stop and say, Hey, wait just a minute. One, as being in this relationship, I know there's parts of me that I'm gonna have to sacrifice. I'm gonna have to compromise with you, right? And to build trust, we're gonna have to compromise with one another to get back here. Right? I understand. I've done things that have upset you and you understand that you've done things that have upset me. And so we have to come back and find a common ground somewhere because the water gets so muddy. Cecil Bullard: But you, here's, here's. Am I, am I, how am I talking to you? How am I treating you? Yes. How am I approaching you? Because that's the, if my ego is hurt or if I'm mad, Lucas Underwood: right? Cecil Bullard: And I come to you and I go, Lucas, dammit, you son of a bitch. You always X, Y, Z, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: That's not healthy. That's not good. And by the way, that's never gonna get me what I need. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If, if I come to you and I say, Lucas. I'm really concerned, uh, uh, I'm gonna have a conversation with an employee, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I, I have rules around having those conversations. Number one, I need to have proof of the behavior. Yeah. So if I come to iga, Lucas, I'm concerned about you. Because I've seen this behavior five times and here's five examples of that. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And, and you know, when you're having conversation with people, it's a management technique. It's a counseling technique or whatever, you know, um, uh, I've seen this behavior. Do you recognize that there's a pattern here, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Hey, can you see this with me? I see that. Okay, great. Now we're, now we, it's a completely different conversation, and unfortunately we let our hurt and our anger Lucas Underwood: mm-hmm. Cecil Bullard: And our disappointment and our egos get in the middle of all this, and we say things and we treat people in a way that's not healthy. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. A hundred Cecil Bullard: percent. When I, when I start saying, well, you know. I don't know who I could pick anybody and go, well, you're this and you're this, and you're that. All of a sudden, all I'm doing is putting a big widge between us, Lucas Underwood: a hundred percent man, Cecil Bullard: and it's probably gonna create more of the behavior I don't want and not the behavior that I want. We have to be so careful in our relationships and when we're talking to people, how we approach them and, and what we do. Lucas Underwood: You know, growing up, and I've told you this before, um, I, I, and I love my daddy to death. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anything bad about my daddy. I don't want you to think that, but I remember growing up, if I grabbed a sandwich bag. And I put a sandwich in that sandwich bag and it was the right size, he would tell me, why'd you use that bag? Because we don't have that many of that bag. Okay. Um, alright. And I would go to a bigger bag and he would say, why'd you use that bag? You shouldn't have used that bag. Too big. It's too big. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And then I'd have got a small bag. It doesn't fit in there. Right. Like that, that, that's how my dad was. And I look back and I recognize my grandmother was very much the same way with him. Right. That's how he was raised and that's how he raised us. And, and I have to be careful about that. But it also created a thing in me that sometimes when my wife says, so. I, I respond and I'm like, boom, I can't believe you. Right? Like, I get emotional because of my pocket. I, I put Cecil Bullard: whatever bag I want, you know, I'm an Lucas Underwood: adult now, and she's right. I bought Cecil Bullard: those bags, Lucas Underwood: right? Whatcha talking about? Whoa. Yeah. And so she, she came to me years ago and she said, can you see that I'm on your team? Can you see that I'm trying to fight the fight that you wanna fight, that we're doing this together? I'm hearing you. I'm not against you. Right? I want, and if you perceive something I'm saying is against you, you're not hearing what I'm saying. If Cecil Bullard: there isn't a person that in my life that I don't want to see successful, there isn't a shop that I've ever met. I mean, I have clients that left me and went to other places where I don't think it was the best thing for them, and it hurts me still today. Yeah, I see 'em and I'm like, oh man, and it hurts. And, but you have to, you, you, you, you kind of have to overcome those things and, and move those things forward or put those things in a place that you know how to deal with them, right? Yeah, absolutely. My dad was, was very critical. You know, same thing, you know, I mean yeah, Lucas Underwood: it was Cecil Bullard: the Lucas Underwood: generation, it was the generation he was raised in. It was, Cecil Bullard: yeah, if I cleaned it, it wasn't clean enough. If I put it away, I didn't put away the way it was supposed to. If I. If I used it, it, it was probably the wrong thing, right? Yeah. I, I, I wore my shoes out too fast and I grew too fast, so my pants were too short and, you know, and as a parent, I'm thinking, you know, and by the way, guess what? I've screwed my kids up. Just as much as my parents screwed me. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. And not, not out of bad intention. Yeah. Just out of, you know, oh, I'm really stressed about work and I come home and things aren't, you know, kids are too loud and I scream at 'em instead of get in there and, you know, enjoy the time together. Right. Lucas Underwood: It makes me think of that Zig Ziglar story, Mr. B. Where he said that Tomcat was the only being in that entire equation who could not have changed the outcome of the circumstances. Right. Like sometimes we gotta be the thing that stops it. Sometimes we have to be the one to put the, the foot down and say, no, I'm not gonna continue this. This is where we're stopping this. Well, it, it's a really great comment over here. I, I wanna read this book because I know we have a few minutes early, so there's really great comment. Um, it's Todd Ainsworth and he says, I think trust is not only an issue in creating the relationship with clients, but independent shop owners. Are independent by nature, believe that they have a better way due to past experiences and have trouble believing other people, shop owners, coaches, et cetera, want to help them and not gain some sort of, sort of advantage by looking more closely at financials, et cetera. I have seen that time and time again, they, they tend to say, oh, you, no, I'm, I'm, he's out to do something. There's a reason there. They wouldn't just want to help me for no other reason. Like, there's got to be something there, right? And so I think that's a really great perspective. Thank you, Todd. Cecil Bullard: So if, if anything is unhealthy, healthy in my life, it's probably the, the driving force to try to change the industry and, and make it a better place for a lot of people. I mean, because if, if I didn't have that. I would've done a lot of different things and I'd probably be a much wealthier person than I am at this point. Yeah, right. Yeah, Lucas Underwood: a hundred percent buddy. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, I That's a great co thank you, Todd, that, that's really a great, a great comment. But again, it's up to us to be as adult as possible and to recognize what's my part in this and, and, and I think, yeah. We have to get conscious, and that's one of the problems that we're often unconscious about our communication. And we have to get conscious, especially when we have situations. So like if, if, if I have a real problem with my wife or one of my clients or one of my partners here at the institute, I mean, hell, I. I never had partners. All of a sudden I got partners in the last couple of years and Right. Cecil Bullard: And that's not an easy relationship. I had to be very, Lucas Underwood: you messed up. You went and hired some really, really, really, really Cecil Bullard: smart, amazing people, smart Lucas Underwood: partners. Cecil Bullard: Yes, I did. Actually, Lucas Underwood: they were very, Cecil Bullard: well, somebody at one point, I think it was, um, I think it was, um, Covey or somebody who said, uh. You really wanna surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Um, and I, I think you've outdone yourself a few years ago, I've kind of taken much apart. I Lucas Underwood: you're much smarter Cecil Bullard: than all of us. Yeah. I mean, I, I, we, we just restructured, um, did a lot of restructuring and I'm signing, I don't know how many pages of legal documents and I'm like. Man, I'm either, I'm either doing the best thing for myself in the world 'cause I brought the right people in, or I'm gonna end up broken on the streets because I just gave away everything to everybody. Lucas Underwood: I'm not reading all this. It'll be fine. Cecil Bullard: No, I read, I read it, but it's, it's not easy to understand. Um, yeah, I, I think. Y Yeah, but it's not an excuse. We use all these excuses like, like my mom or, or, you know, uh, today I heard, you know, president Trump, uh, the economy and, and the economy's bad. Well, if you're a business owner, you don't get to use excuses. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: Okay. If you wanna be successful, you have to be aware. You have to be awake, you have to be. Knowledgeable, you have to be pursuing knowledge and, and finding out that maybe the way you did it for the last 20 years is not the way it needs to be done in the future. If you wanna really be successful. You know, that adage about doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah, for Cecil Bullard: sure. Um, and, and so back to the idea of counseling. There's never anything wrong with, with finding a good counselor. And I think you can do that. You might have to interview two or three, but, and then saying, help us. To communicate. Yeah. Uh, you know, you have, in this case you have a wife who's, who's concerned. She's probably concerned for her kids, her future, her husband, their business, et cetera. And then you have a husband who is doing semantic behaviors, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And those are probably legitimate, meaning there's something behind all that that is, has brought that all forward. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, but the first thing that really needs to happen. Is they both need to sit down in a calm situation and say, we need help and find help. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely right, because we have to realize that we're on the same team. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We're all, you know, we, my wife and I that years ago, my wife does so many things that piss me off, and I, I've said it more than once on a, on a, on a podcast and it's, it's, it's harmful for her to hear that. So don't listen to this part, honey. But, you know, she's, she, she doesn't live her life exactly the way I want, and she's not, she doesn't do this the way I want. She doesn't fold my laundry the way I want. You know, those kind of things. Right. And, and, and so if I look at all the things that she does wrong, I can't be married. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And, and I don't know, 20 years ago I was just this negative guy who just was unhappy all the time. I said I have to change my perspective 'cause the world's not gonna change. My wife, we've been married 43 years, she's not changing tomorrow. She's not gonna wake up tomorrow and go, I'm gonna do all this differently. Lucas Underwood: You're too hardheaded. Okay, listen. Oh yeah. My wife, she had me trained from the word go. She was right. Okay. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. She's not wrong ever. It's me. Okay. I just, I have gotten to the point that I accept it. I know it, I acknowledge it, and I just do exactly what she says. And, and believe it or not, my life gets better when I do. Cecil Bullard: You're a smarter guy than I am. Lucas Underwood: She's gonna kill me when I get Cecil Bullard: but kind. This my, because she's like, bullshit. Um, but, but what I had to do was I had to make a conscious choice to not look at. The stuff that doesn't fit, but really mostly to look at the stuff that fits and that works well. And, and you know, I, it is, I, I love talking to my wife at the end of the day and going, here's where the business is at and here's what I'm thinking. Yeah. And here's why I'm doing this. Me, and I mean, me too. There's anybody else I'd rather have that conversation with. And I've got, I've got Wayne and Michael and Kent and I do have lots of those conversations with them. Shouldn't Lucas Underwood: hit the same. Cecil Bullard: I like having the conversation with my wife. Lucas Underwood: There's something different about, here's where we're going together. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: right. Yeah. There's something different about your closest companion and having a conversation with them saying, I'm so excited to do this with you. So my wife hates talking about the business. Yeah. I swear she does. But that of all the things and, and I've had to be very guarded about this, but of all the things that provide me relief. Being able to share how I feel about the business to her. Yeah. 'cause here's, here's the big thing, right? And, and this was a big thing about counseling for me, Cecil, is even you being as close as we are, there's things that I don't feel comfortable coming and telling you about the business. Now I do, I forced myself through it, but it's not comfortable. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: When I went to counseling, I learned what it feels like to truly be vulnerable and say how I feel about something and not worry about being judged. And so I can talk to my wife. Let that out, and that's a big deal for me Cecil Bullard: and understand from. Our, from our relationship. Um, I'm a coach and, and I'm a coach, and I'm a coach, and I'm a teacher, and it, it's just ingrained in me. So, and, and because of whatever happened to me in my life and all the experience I've had, I, I, I have a gift or. Whatever to see things that some other people don't all often see and Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so when I come to you and I say, Hey Lucas, I need to know this. Or Hey Lucas, I think we need to do this. It's never, we're on the same team. Yeah. It's always, we're always on the same team. It's never, how do I, how do I get extra money from Lucas or you know, how do I get influence or whatever. It's none of that. It's always. I want you to be successful as much as possible. And I believe to the core of my being, that 99% of what I'm telling you is right and that I might be insane. I might be on that mental side, right? That, that Lucas Underwood: Well, good news. I trust you. And so I might be mental too, but like, hey, we'll be, we'll be on the same bus together, so it's okay. Uh, Cecil Bullard: well, yeah, we, we, we, we have to take accountability for ourselves. We have to look and see are, am I harming? The people around me and, and myself. Alright. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And then we have to be very careful about how we talk to people again, especially if we're on the same team, right? I mean, there are people that I just don't like, and so we're not even gonna talk. I'm not wasting my time with that person. Right? Yeah. And, and I'm not wasting my energy, but the people in my life that I care about, I'm gonna give them everything that I can give them. Yeah. And, uh, hope that I'm right most of the time and, and, you know, we'll ride this thing out together. I'm always there for 'em. Lucas Underwood: Amen, buddy. Well, thank you for being here, Cecil. I know we gotta end it a few minutes early. I gotta make it to an accountant's office. Yes sir. You've got stuff you gotta do. I hear that Michael and everybody else has this huge stack of paperwork for you to sign. Cecil Bullard: They got all kinds of stuff for me. Lucas Underwood: Something about financing 42 brand new vehicles is all I heard. Yeah. I don't know what it's, I'm just gonna Cecil Bullard: 40,000 a. No, it's just paperwork. Lucas Underwood: That's it. It's just paperwork. It's fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: it's fine. Hey, did they get that auto sign thing set up for you? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's all done. It's, it's literally, it's buddy, I signed a, I dunno, 47 documents in like 10 minutes. Uh, Lucas Underwood: that's it. I love it. I love it. Don't know Cecil Bullard: if they, I read. It's Lucas Underwood: fine. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Guys, guys, thank you so much for being here. Go ahead, Cecil. I'm sorry. Cecil Bullard: I, I called Wayne and I was like, Hey Wayne, I'm looking at this stock stuff and, and, uh, it looks to me like this. But on this other side, it looks like this. And he's like, oh, it's fine. No problem. And I'm like, okay. That's, Lucas Underwood: don't worry, Cecil Bullard: don't worry. Yeah. Okay, don't Lucas Underwood: worry. Cecil Bullard: There we go. And I told him that, that, that proves how much I trust you. Yeah, I mean these are, and, and you need to foster relationships in your life that you can have people in your life that you know they're on your side and you know they're working with you towards things. So Lucas Underwood: amen. Cecil Bullard: Wrap her up there buddy. Lucas Underwood: And folks, that's exactly why if you own an auto repair shop, you need to have the institute in your life, especially with all the new great big things that they're doing. Their coaching services have been a life changer for me, and I hope they will be a life changer for you in the very near future. So you guys, make sure you check out all the institute has to offer and have a great day. Cecil Bullard: Thank you brother.

194 - The Strategy in Succession: The Story of Oswald Service & Repair February 25, 2026 - 00:57:04 Show Summary: This episode shares how Oswald Service and Repair grew from a 1939 service station into a multi location shop in Idaho Falls. It breaks down the realities of family succession and the damage caused by unclear roles and rushed promotions. The conversation highlights why outside experience can strengthen a returning successor. It also explains how professionalism and stronger HR practices reshaped shop culture. The Oswald Way is presented as the values framework guiding hiring, discipline, and hard ethical decisions. The episode reinforces the need for coaching, clear timelines, and a focus on building long term business value.   Host(s): Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Guest(s): Kevin & Renae Oswald, Owners, Oswald Service & Repair   Show Highlights: [00:01:48] – The business began in 1939 as a classic full service station. [00:03:10] – A hard truth: the shop could only support one family. [00:04:00] – Leaving the family business built skills and perspective. [00:06:10] – Early roles blended selling, wrenching, and managing daily work. [00:10:20] – A nursing career provided stability during ownership transition. [00:12:10] – Imposter syndrome hit when stepping into community leadership. [00:15:35] – Raising professionalism standards changed shop culture and HR. [00:23:40] – Family succession failed without structure, clarity, and mentoring. [00:34:05] – A clear exit timeline prevents resentment and legal conflict. [00:41:55] – The Oswald Way guides ethics, decisions, and team alignment.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/LbptEoPXC44   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript:   Michael Smith: Hi everybody. Thank you for joining us today. It's good to have y'all on board. I'm Michael Smith, chief Strategy Officer here at the Institute. I also have the privilege of running what we call the Legacy Program, and I am pleased to introduce to you today two of my dear friends clients, but friends more than anything who are in the legacy program. And the topic today that we're gonna talk about is succession. Succession has many terms to it, which I'll describe in a minute. But I wanna welcome Kevin and Renee Oswald again. Two dear friends that I have the privilege of walking beside. Welcome and thank you both for agreeing to come and to share your story with us. It's a fabulous story. Kevin Oswald: You're welcome. Michael Smith: Lots of Kevin Oswald: it. Michael Smith: Yeah. It's good to see you both. Thank you. So yeah, we're gonna talk about succession today and we're gonna talk about family businesses and you know, in our industry there were a lot of family rollovers in the business. And I don't know, maybe in the last decade or two that's lightened up a little bit. I, you have a long, deep, rich history. As a company and as a family, and you are a succession story unfolding. And so we just thought it would be great to just sit and visit a little bit. I said to the Oswalds before we started a family succession can be tender in terms of some hot topics, and they're welcome to tell me. That's a good question. We're not answering it and we're all good with that too. So we'll just dig in and chat a little bit. Kevin, can you tell us a little bit, because I love the story of you in the industry. But give us the background. What, tell us about your family. How'd you get into it? When, where'd you come from? How, how did you become a part of this? Kevin Oswald: Absolutely. So my grandfather started this business in 1939. It was the quintessential old service station where they came out with the bow, tie, the hat, and the bell rang and you ran. And went out there. You pumped the gas, you checked the tires, you, you checked the oil, you washed the windshield. And that's the type of business that we had. In fact, that service station model served our family up through three generations after my grandfather retired. My. Father took over the business. My father was in the business with my grandfather for about five years. Took over the business from my grandfather. And I can remember working at the service station when I was in high school. Washing those windshields were kind of the way that I built my biceps. And you know, my father, if you left one bug on that windshield, he made you go back out and do it again. So, you know, the, the service in Oswald's service is something that was instilled in me at a young age. In 2004, I purchased the business from my father, but there's, there's kind of a backstory to that too. Just shortly after I graduated high school, me and my father were talking and he said, Kevin. This business will only support one family. If you wanna stay, that's fine. I can afford to pay you $8 an hour, but I would recommend you go to school and you do something else for a living. Kind of my father's nice way of saying I don't want you to be in this industry and get out. So I, I did go to school for a little while. I ended up going to work for 14 years at other independent shops, and at that point in time when my father was ready to talk, retire. I came back into the business, but God, what valuable lessons that I learned. You know, not staying in the mainstream and doing things my father's way, but able to get out and look at how other shops operate and you know what they do, and bring that knowledge back into the business was something that was just really invaluable to the business. Michael Smith: Did the three was the third generation business that you bought in the same building? That your grandpa's was in, or had you guys moved around a little bit. Same building even, right? Kevin Oswald: No, same exact building. Yep, same building. So it was long about, I believe 2000 I took over in 2004. 2011 is when I built the new shop and we moved from the service station just a block to the north to where our. Present shop in Idaho Falls sits. And so we got out of the service station model of it. We had some elderly people that especially some elderly ladies that came in and said, Kevin, I've never pumped my gas before and you guys are closing this service station. What do I do? And so they would come in every week to the shop. I would take them out, I would pump the gas for 'em. And of course I'd probably get a plate of cookies for the effort. And you know, it it, it, it was a good thing. It really was. So, and now we've got a son that is involved in the business. We've got a fourth generation going. I have two locations right now with a third one under construction. Michael Smith: Oh, beautiful, beautiful. That's a great story. And, and I, I am always intrigued by the story about your father saying, this can only support one family. And so with respect, it's my family. I'm gonna continue to feed and son, please go do something else. Right? And I, I love the integrity in that. I also love the. In some ways cutting you loose to the world, right? Just like you, I'm not gonna, you're not gonna be under my wing. We can't afford it, he thought, right? But also, you know, you gotta go out and make your own way, which is a beautiful catalyst to have to get up, get out, go try other things. So, Renee, I want to come to you in a second, but I want to finish an aspect of the story. Not so much where Kevin, but the independence that you worked in, you started as a technician. Right? Kevin Oswald: Yes. Michael Smith: And then were you selling at the other independents? Were you store manager somewhere along the way? How, what did you do? How far did you go before you jumped back in as the succeeding owner? For your dad's business. Okay. Kevin Oswald: So I first left and went to a a tire store and I kind of ran the alignment and brake shop at this tire store. And so, yeah, I was direct involvement with sales, with the public speaking with customers. And then once the sale was done, I'd, run over to the toolbox, put the car up in the air and take care of the work and get things taken care of. So that was about seven years at this tire shop. And, you know, the, the tire store this is where I was first introduced to a career path and I, I remember the owner of the tire shop saying, you know. If you do me a good job, I promise I will build you a store and you can manage it. So that was always the thought is I was going to climb up the ladder, I was gonna become a manager in this organization and manage a store. It came to the point where we started having kids and decided we don't wanna leave Idaho Falls. We love it here and the world is a cold, scary place, so we wanna stay here. And so I ended up leaving there and went to another independent alignment and brake shop in town and ended up managing that for seven years. Okay, so, and again, the person who owned this alignment shop also owned a body shop in town, and to this day it is still one of the premier body shops to take your vehicle to. I mean, just, attention to detail and everything that is done there. And you know, that's where I learned a lot of that from, you know, my first stop, I learned a lot about business. My second stop, I learned a lot about customer service and you know, how to take care of the customer and do things right. And then. I, you know, about a year before my father retired, I gave him a year's advance notice and said, I am taking the service station over from my dad. And the transition went well, but again, I mean, things that I learned on those two stops were just so invaluable and just gave me a leg up. Going back into the family business, Michael Smith: were you mentored? Carefully by the places that you went and learned or was this sort of deep water OJT in you go figure it out for yourself, or some combination of both. Kevin Oswald: You know, the first place? No we, we had regular training at the first place that they would bring me in and they would also send me to, so at the first place, no, at the second place it was, you know, here's my vision. This is the way that I want things done, and I've got a body shop to run, and we'll see you later. Michael Smith: Keep it going Kevin Oswald: money Michael Smith: and Kevin Oswald: I don't wanna Michael Smith: hear from Kevin Oswald: you. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, being able to have the autonomy to do that and, you know, and the trust he had in me was just, oh, just speaks volumes of the man. I just, Michael Smith: well, yeah, and, and you, from the standpoint, and I'm not blowing smoke at you from an esteem building standpoint, right? There's nothing like having to figure it out for yourself. And then when it's working, have them come and recognize that and then give you even more leeway. And I talk about confidence building, right? To get ready to do it on your own, to have that resource available. But to learn to stand without it is, yes, it's a key conversation about succession, especially family succession, like what you guys are working on. So fascinating. So I have more questions, but Renee, will you tell us a little bit. About your involvement in the family business, the Oswald family business. 'cause I know you spent great time in an other industry learning an awful lot, which you've brought back to the independent automotive service world. So tell us a little bit about yourself and you can start back in where you grew up or when you guys met, or first date or whatever, however far back you want to go. Renae Oswald: Well, what I'll, I'll just add to that is, you know, Kevin talks about being at the service station and. Cleaning the bugs off of the windshield? Well, it was on a well traveled road and so it was there were three boys, three Oswald boys that worked there and so many a time we teenage girls were driving by honking our horns and, you know, so. Yes, I remember those days fondly and you know, their boys, Kevin did have hair back in the day and Kevin Oswald: I sported a mullet. That was just, you did. Oh man. Renae Oswald: Yeah. Kevin Oswald: Yeah, it was great. Renae Oswald: So, yes, I mean that, the little service station has a big place in my heart. And I have been along for the ride. Kevin and I were high school sweethearts and so we married a couple years out of high school. I did pursue another career. I'm a registered nurse, so I really didn't have a lot to do with the business when we took it over. I think the benefit of me having my own career when Kevin purchased the business from his dad was, we were not completely dependent on that income like his parents had been. You know, it was, it was very much dad had to bring in the bacon or else they weren't going to eat, and so. I gave us a little bit of a landing pad for, for exploration with a new business and trying to figure out how to run a business and but I wasn't really truly too involved. I had my own leadership trajectory in healthcare and. Kevin and I would, you know, we would work a little bit on, on the service station or the, you know, repair business together, but mostly in a consultive way. Because I had my own thing going until it was very fortunate because in January of 2020 I left healthcare and, you know, what happened in 2020 with COVID. Yeah, it was timing. And I had, I had started a podcast of which there was one sponsor and it was Oswald Service and Repair. And so it, it was great. I had started getting more involved in the community and really starting to represent our business. So I think if you looked at my involvement in the business now. It doesn't make any sense, but I'm more the face of Oswald service because I am more present in the community. I am you know, IO oversee our marketing efforts and really anything that is an outward representation of Oswald service. So that's kinda where I got involved. I will say that it was an interesting transition for me because. WW we were running the business and doing the best we can and doing well. You know, we've, we've had a good business and definitely has done a different level of business than his father's business was for sure. But I walked into the to networking room with all sorts of business operators in eastern Idaho, and I felt like such a fraud because I had been in healthcare for, you know, decades and I did not really know what I was doing. And I kind of felt like we as business owners. Didn't really know what we were doing. We were just really fortunate that it had worked out well. Clearly we must have known something because it was working well, but we hadn't had that imposter syndrome heavy being in that room with influential individuals in our community. And so that was a, that was a good lesson for me in the fact that I had had all this confidence in the career that I was in and then making this switch. I felt, you know, like I was right back to having to prove myself and, and feel like I needed to be a member of, of that room. You know? Now I realize none of us know what we're doing. We're all just doing the best that we can. And it's a, it's a facade. If, if anybody watching this is like, oh, the Oswalds have it together, it is not true. Like we are just figuring it out as we go along and we have great advisors and individuals that we surround ourselves that have helped us to be successful. So that's what I see as my role. In our business. I am truly, Kevin and I have been on a journey trying to figure this out because it was so his thing, and then I come, you know, in and I'm like, Hey, I'm a part of this too. And for us to really figure out how to be partners has been a struggle for us. But we are like, I just feel so strongly right now that we are, you know, in sync, in step we're respecting each other's role. And each other's input in this business, and it has very much amplified what we've been able to do, especially over the last five to seven years. Michael Smith: Yeah. I am so impressed by how you two operate, not only together, but also the company that you run and the leadership position that you've established in the marketplace that you're in. Renee, I wanna build a little bit on your leadership in healthcare conversation. If, if we can when, when you came over. From healthcare and you looked at our industry, and you're not gonna hurt anybody's feelings if you give us a hard truth or two. What did you learn in healthcare that you looked at, you know, when you got into the family business and looked around, Hey, there's some things I can bring to the table right away that we need in our industry. What, what, what could you share with the folks that are listening to, to raise the bar a little bit on the way we might see some things that you got to see from outside. What did you, what did you see when you came back? Renae Oswald: Well, I did work for a big corporation and it was very professional and you know, I, I worked with a lot of very professional individuals and I, I tell you, I really had to. Adjust when I would come into the shop because we didn't always act very professional and it wasn't so much to our customers, but definitely in the back, you know, in the back shop. It, we took this business over, like Kevin said, in 2004. And I had seen the evolution through, you know, since we got married and, and y'all know it has changed, you know, things that were. The way that behaviors were in the, in the shop have definitely improved over the years, but I did come in with the perception a little bit. Like it felt very our shop and I was coming from a corporate world where I was like, these are, these just don't always align. And I kind of had to separate myself, well, this is the way man PA works and this is the way corporate works. And so it was a little bit of a difficult transition to say, no, we couldn't, we can, we can function this way. We don't have to be ong, let individuals behave in a way that is not reflective of professionalism. It's okay to raise that bar and, and, and project something that is really a more professional, more polished. Organization. So it, it was rough for me and probably as a woman too, because it's not necessarily an environment that is, you know, woman dom dominated. And you know, I came from nursing, which typically is, and so that was also an adjustment for me to I, I didn't feel like I fit in and, and I've, again, it's been a great marriage, not only just because we're married, but in being able to figure out that partnership and. And how I can have a voice. And Kevin's been really great about allowing me to do that. And, and we have definitely evolved in our behaviors all the way around the shop. Michael Smith: Yeah, no, and I, and I'm, I'm intrigued by your, you know, healing humans background to come to the healing cars world, right? Where the customer experience the bedside manner, right? The way we treat you treated patients in the healthcare business, and not necessarily by the healthcare systems, but by the patient care on the ground. Some, some of that translating to, into the on automotive service business about how we love our long-term value, LTV customers too, right? So many lessons. Renae Oswald: So many parallels too. Mm-hmm. I mean, when I think about Kevin, and I would say this all the time, he would be like, you're lucky because your patients can talk to you. And I'm like, yeah, it's true. I mean, the majority of my patients could tell me what was wrong with them or give me symptoms and all sorts of stuff. And you all are having to really, you know, work with something that maybe will give you a signal and then you have to, you know, really locate where that problem is. There's a lot of parallels and I think. He, there was a bit of an injustice in the fact that if a physician makes an a, a mistake, well, it's practicing medicine, but if a technician makes a mistake, you know you're crooks and you're all of these other things. So it is kind of, it was interesting to look at those parallels and how much they paralleled. Now, obviously human life. Has a lot of value. And I'm not trying to say that an sure, you know, engine is the exact same. But there were so many parallels in the fact that we are in a service industry. Our role is to serve our patients or our clients or our customers. And yeah, tons of parallels throughout that. Michael Smith: Yeah, and the parallel, and I love this 'cause I about every group I ever speak to, I will say to our industry, this is one of the most difficult small businesses that I've ever seen, and I will frequently reference healthcare as the other one. Right? Human physical systems, mental systems are complex. Lift the hood on a car. Nowadays, all the computers and the chips is as well. Very complicated businesses. And Renee, you made an interesting point. Physicians practicing that they're practicing medicine. We're not supposed to practice anything. We're supposed to get everything right a hundred percent of the time. Nothing ever fails when we're done. No parts break on the way out of the dr. I mean, it's just, it's a different perspective of the world. Physicians and nurses are respected professionally. Our industry tends to not be seen at the same level or in the same light. So fascinating. Kevin, what And, and again, we're gonna get to succession. But I love the sort of the interplay about how you run your business and what you see. Renee walked back in from healthcare. What did she bring as an insider that you saw, you know, your own version of it? What, what did she bring to Oswald that's now there that you guys didn't know you needed, but now it's here. Right? Tell, tell us a little bit from your angle. Kevin Oswald: Oh, professionalism. The, the human resource aspect of it. You know back in the day I was practicing cowboy justice. You know I, I remember a technician that upset me and I told him to get the blank outta my shop, and I pushed his. Toolbox out into the parking lot. And, you know, those are the kind of things that Renee brought in and he, she was just like, you know, cowboy, you can't do that. You, you've gotta rein it in a little bit. There's certain things that we need to do. You know, our program that we go through you know, Idaho is an at will state. We can. Fire for any cause or just cause I should say. And she brought in a progressive discipline within our organization where, hey, you know, you made this mistake. How can we help you? And being able to use that progressive discipline to help our employees improve. And at the end of the day, if they're not going to improve you know. I'm sorry, we tried, but this just isn't working out. And I, I don't push their toolboxes outside anymore, but offer to help them move their toolbox or whatever we need to do and go from there. But yeah, you know, it was just shenanigans in the shop, you know, the, the eighties and yeah. And I, I'm gonna author a book someday and it's gonna be entitled, A Thousand Things You Can Do With Break Clean, you know, just, you know, things that you used to do back in the shop and she's a hundred percent right. You know, it would never fly where she's at. And so, you know, it, it, it, it's fun being able to take the aspect of professionalism and bring into the shop, but. It's also fun to be able to still have that light spirit in the shop, excuse me. And you know, and be able to come to a place where it is fun to work and come to a place where you feel valued. And that that's everything that she brought right there. Michael Smith: That's beautiful. Beautiful. And thank you Renee for bringing it to our industry too. Right? There are a lot of good, wonderful players out there, and there's an awful lot of room for us to continue to, to grow and to bring that value back to, to the communities that we, that we all love and serve as best. We know how. It's great. You mentioned the fourth generation. Can you tell us within the parameters of your comfort zone, tell us about those two boys and what have you told them about the business and how did they both get a little bit into it and how did they look at it and where are they now? And I, fascinating story again to your family privacy comfort level. What might you share with us? You have a wonderful story. Kevin Oswald: You know, I think this is something that both Renee and I are gonna talk back and forth about, but you know, the boys were in the business and you know, it was always the dream that they would take the business over and I would retire and we would hold hands and sing kumbaya and head off into the sunset. And that didn't happen. There were some things, especially with my eldest son that we did not anticipate, we were not prepared for. And you know, I, I take accountability and responsibility for what happened there with him. And I mean, if you wanna expound on that a little bit, Renee. Renae Oswald: Yeah. I mean, so I guess what I will say is, I'll back up. We never really. Expected either of our boys to be in the business. We were very clear with them as they were growing up. Like, you do not have to do this. This is not what we expect for you to do. We don't, you know, if you walk away from this, that's absolutely fine. Michael Smith: So not to interrupt you, but just to add to this, like you said to them, we take the weight of the fourth generation off your shoulders. There's no family guilt. There's no family pressure. We're saying to you straight up, if you wanna do something else, you can. If you want to be in you. Absolutely. I love that. That's such a. Wonderful gift to give to them that you did right to take, to make it an optional choice, not a forced one of, even a subtly forced one. Renae Oswald: It was a good gift. Although I feel like we took it back later, but Michael Smith: the story continues, Renae Oswald: right? Yeah. I mean, so our, both of our boys knew, you know, like that's fine that this doesn't have to be our role. So our oldest son, actually, he did go to college and he was in his second semester, I think that he was finishing that up. He went on, you know, to like a summer job and it didn't, it was not his fit. So he called us and he said, Hey, can I come? And we, they had worked in the shop during their high school years, so they'd had some, you know, he'd had some exposure to this. And he is like, this isn't gonna fit for me. Can I come? I wanna come home and I wanna work for you guys. And we were like. Yeah, this is a good business. This is gonna be great. You don't necessarily need college. We can teach you the things that you need to learn here. We're happy to bring you in. And that's where it kind of started. So it was at that point where we were like, oh, well this really could be fourth generation. And, and then we got kind of sucked into the romantic idea about that. Right? Because here's another fun thing about our story. We have Kevin's grandfather and grandmother mechanic, married to a nurse. We have Kevin's mother and father, mechanic, married to a nurse. We have, he and I mechanic, married to a nurse and our son. Guess what his. Fiance was studying nursing, right? She was gonna become, she's gonna be a nurse. So we got really sucked into this romantic idea that we had this fourth generation of technician and nurse, and it was all of this. And I think that that also puts some pressure on him. He, he was fine in the business and, and he was successful in the business. He actually worked more as a service advisor for us. And then we had a transition with our, one of our locations, and we needed a manager tomorrow. And we were like, well, of course that's gonna be our son, because he's the natural heir of all of this. And so we just, we didn't really ask him. We said, Hey, kid, you are now expected to go run this because it's the natural progression of your trajectory. And so here you are, you've just been deemed a manager. Did we mentor him into that role? No. Did we have a lot of structure for him to be able to step into that role? No. Were we there holding his hand and really helping him figure out how to do this? Well? No, and he did the very best that he could, but honestly, Michael, I think we fried him. I think that because of our structure, lack of structure, lack of clarity, this kid is. Well, the one that would line up his toys in a row, he needed structure and he needed clarity and we did not provide that for him. Well, and he was so kind to us, and he stayed around for longer than he should have until it was absolutely detrimental to his mental health, his physical, you know, just everything. He's like, I just don't wanna do this anymore. And you know, I, I do give Kevin and I a lot of kudos 'cause even, you know, at that time we were like. We could tell it was obvious. We were having performance issues and there were things and we were like, you know what? You're right. And we wanna support you in whatever that next step is. And so he's been able to go and, you know, do something which we just see him blossoming every day 'cause he is so excited about. So it's fun to be able to see that. And the other bonus to that was when the older brother got out of the way. We've really been able to see the younger son who, who, who, who decided to do this straight out of, you know he, he, out of high school, he was, he was like, yeah, I wanna be in this business. We've seen him blossom into something that, I mean, we have no worries that this business is gonna be in great hands because he's Michael Smith: repressive young man. Renae Oswald: Yeah, he's gonna do a great job, but only until his brother, you know, it had to be that he kind of stepped out of the way. Before the sun really blossomed. Michael Smith: Well, you, you guys did what almost everybody does. You get ready to promote somebody who is you. You want them in the new role and we tend to move people into the role and help. They'll figure it out as they go and some of the stuff that we talk about all the time in the legacy program, but also. Us is to make sure that we can think about these career paths and figure out what's next for each individual and try to pre-prepare them, right? Get them ready before we promote them from being a master of their current position to being an apprentice of the next one. And in the apprenticeship, some people struggle, right? Some people, like you said, need a lot of guidance. Some people love the freedom to do that, but everybody's different in that way. And so we always tend to do that. And having this. Progression is a possibility in front of people. Gives them something to aim at. It also gives them a chance to feel comfortable that they, you know, you're knocking imposter syndrome components off of them with everything you teach them before they need it. Then when they step into it, being right next to them and saying, okay, you're on your own but you're not. Right. Each of us has an arm up in battle, if you will. So go do your thing, but you're never gonna be alone right here. These are all ways we can make this easier, but then we only. Do that. If we have time to stop and think about it. And I love the way you said it. It was like, we needed it. We needed it. Now he's the obvious era apparent. Congratulations, you're promoted now. Go make it work. And then you guys went off and worked on the business and it's like, like somehow genetically he's supposed to know what you all have learned over the course of your lives. Right? So, and we do this all the time. Everybody does this all the time. And, and even non-family businesses do this all the time. So I, this is a story well, well worn. It's been told a lot. So, but not to go too deep. He's happy now in his next iteration of a, of a, of a, of a, A pathway. Right. So that makes Thanksgivings easier when you all get together, when there's all that business pressures not in the middle of it. Right. So, Renae Oswald: well, you know, that's been the good thing I will say about our family is that we have been very open and transparent, you know, through all of this and try to be very honest about, yeah, we realize we own, you know, we kind of set you up to fail and. We own that. And so it really has been able to maintain relationships. And I am super grateful for that with our boys. It, it did strain their relationship, you know, and working together. And I think that there's some healing left to do there, but for the most part, nobody's os you know, nobody's not talking to each other. And you're right, Thanksgiving is fine and it's. And it's a good, it's good, but it, I do, I would caution anybody who's listening and contemplating this in their life, and especially if they are that kid that's in their family business, that's like, I don't know if I really wanna be here. Don't, don't wait to have those conversations because I know it's hard. It's so scary. You don't wanna go to your parents or whoever it is and say, I'm not sure that this is for me. But it has been, like I said, it started taking a toll on his mental health because he was trying to keep it all together when he didn't need to. You know, it, the honesty and just being transparent, the sooner the better, so that either you can, you know, rectify the situation you're in or change. And again, terrifying 'cause of the unknown, but honestly, watching him now and see how happy he is in what he's doing, I wish that we could have given this to him five years ago. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. Well, and that, and you, you, if it happened now, you would. You had to go through this to figure it out. Right? Which is a beautiful thing of you sharing with other people to think about as well. So tell us about your second son. He stepped up out of the shadows and into the light with his older brother Stepping aside I'm assuming you didn't trust him into general manager role overnight and, and leave him on the flagpole in the wind. Right. That he's taken a different path. So, and again, this is part of. What we're sharing here is what's different about your second son who, who I think the world of both of them, right? They're both wonderfully young men. And, but tell us about the second one and what you're doing differently given what you've learned. Right. What's the, what's your pathway of support for his succession interest at this point? Kevin Oswald: Collaboration. That is the biggest thing right there. What I take from Nick is we just assumed. We never asked him what he wanted to do. We just said, here you be the manager of our Rexburg location. See you. Bye. Had we sat down and assessed his hopes and his dreams, figured out what he wanted to do and worked collaboratively, lead with him and get his buy-in on what was going on, I, I think we would've had a different outcome there. And that's just a mistake we're not going to do with Jacob. You know, we want to be able to have a, a clear. Career path with him. Let him know of my intentions as far as an exit strategy goes. Put a timeline on that so he has something to look forward to. Renee and I have a relative that took over their family business and for years and years. Dad, when are you gonna sell it, dad? When are you gonna sell it? Well, we'll get around to it. Well, maybe in a couple of years. Well, we'll have to sit down someday and talk about that. And it got to the point where, I mean, things went. To court to try and accelerate this process. And now, you know, it's to the point where the father and the son, they don't even have a relationship anymore. Yes. I'm so sorry. And, you know, had the father in that instance, been able to give some clarity to the son and get their buy-in on what was going on and together create a plan for succession. I mean, things would've looked much different. Now, I understand as an owner, that's a really hard thing to do because you know, you're talking to a person and me. Who's not really goal oriented, it's just fly by the seat of your pants and I'll get it done when I get it done. But to be able to have something out there that is in writing that says, okay, in 10 years from now, I plan on taking a step back. Seven years from now, I am going to promote you to you know. An area manager or something like that, and, and give them a career path, something to look forward to. And then they know when the heck you're gonna get out of the way. And they're, I'm, you know, I, I liken my son to a hunting dog. I mean, he's just sitting there. Buy you wagging his tail and he's looking up at you like, I'm ready to go get that duck. I'm ready to retrieve this, and I'm just waiting for you to release me so I can go do my job. And, you know, that's, that's what I see with my son and I see myself just being able to say, go and, and just release him and be able to let him run after that duck and retrieve it. Michael Smith: What a wonderful potential energy. Device sitting next to you in your son, he is cocked up and ready to go. And what he needs from you is a plan and guidance and patience and mentoring. And also the command. Once in a while, it's like, okay, go get this one. Go get that one, and there's another new experience to be had. It really leans back into a mentoring model, a long-term career development model. Right, which I know I'm gonna ask you a little bit more about what you're doing organization wide, but this does open that door to the concept that people who work with you are thinking about their lives beyond tomorrow. Right? A lot of 'em show up to do their job today, but it's like, well, what's this gonna turn into a year from now, five from now, 10 from now? You guys built this beautiful you've expanded, right? You didn't start the business. You took something much smaller than it was. A generation ago and have turned it into something much bigger, much more successful. And you're in growth mode, right? I mean, you're, you're, the systems you're putting in are allowing you to punch the accelerator and make this thing a true legacy company. Generational wealth building machine, which of course is of interest to the family members that might step in behind you, but there's a lot of learning to do. Not just you guys, also of, of course, but, but the, the generation behind you and not just pushing 'em out there at the end and saying, okay, it's a decade out. We're done. Good luck with this and wipe your hands to it, getting 'em ready, you know, knocking that imposter syndrome off one bite at a time. So, Renee, I know you grew up in healthcare. There was more of this there. But would you speak not so much from the healthcare perspective, but what, what you see you're bringing into Oswald? Along these lines, what are you guys building that is gonna make this different for your son and for the, maybe the generation that follows this one too, right? And your family. Renae Oswald: Yeah. Thanks for that question, Michael. Because I was just thinking as you guys were talking, I, it sounds real easy to, I mean, when we just say it, we'll have a plan and present the plan and, you know, follow this and have some clarity. But one of the pitfalls that we fell into and, and unfortunately what our first son was a collateral damage kind of was, is that we didn't have our own clarity at all. We didn't know, I mean, we were just following the model that we were kind of shown, you know, like build it and then the, the kid will buy it. Michael Smith: Yep. Renae Oswald: And you know, we'll step away and we'll be, landlords, and that may absolutely be what we end up doing. I'm not really, you know, I mean, but we didn't really see. Our vision as being the legacy. Just like you talked about, we did not see that vision we needed to have. It happened to be you in our lives, you know, to help get, help us paint that picture a little clearer. We were just hitting a brush stroke here and there. And so we had to go back and really understand that for ourselves because there's no way you can teach that or mentor somebody else into that role when you don't have it clear yourself. Absolutely. Michael Smith: Right. Renae Oswald: That was probably some of the best work that I think that we've done over the last few years and and where we're going because we have really been able to. Identify our vision, mission, values, and we have shaped absolutely everything af after what we call the Oswald Way. And it's the list of 10 values that we live by, you know, that includes our mission and vision and who we are and what we're doing, and. I'm telling you, we get off track and when we have to come back, we pull that out and we're like, wait a minute. We know what the answer is here. It's the Oswald way. Well, we didn't have that. We didn't have that to be able to present to our son five years ago or whatever to be able to say, this is where we're going. Is this the, is this where you wanna be? Is this the path that you wanna go down? So I really feel like we are much more structured in clarity. And clarity is kindness. If anybody follows Brene Brown, you know, we hear that a lot, but I believe it to my core that clarity is kindness. And sometimes we aren't willing to say the hard things because we think we're protecting people and we're actually causing more harm. We don't have to do it in a cruel way, but truly being clear is kind. And I see that more and more with our operation. That we still get sucked into some of the ways that we've done stuff. It's easy to do. But we can, we can see that you know, that that guiding principle that's leading us and we can pull ourselves back to that. And so I think going forward, that is what's making the difference for us is. That we have something that we're working towards. And you know, Kevin talks about not being goal oriented and he really undersells, you know, himself. Maybe he doesn't have a list of 10 things that he's like, yeah, I'm gonna reach these goals. But he's always been very driven in making sure that his, he didn't wanna fail on the third generation. Right. We didn't want the third generation to be the Oh. You're the statistic where you close the business and you know, we haven't, we have, you know, quadrupled, I would imagine. I think you know what dad was ever able to do and so where it might not be real clearly written, he definitely is a very driven individual and the Oswald Way has really helped give us that guiding principle to continue that trajectory in a way that is very values based. Michael Smith: Right, so I love that. Renee, Kevin, when you guys have internal conversations with the team, the Oswald Way, how do you use the Oswald Way on a sort of a. Momentary basis, right? It comes up all the time. You go back to the Oswald way a lot. So like when does it come up? How do you use it, the clarity that you have? Give us an example or two if you wouldn't mind. Kevin Oswald: Oh, absolutely. It's all the time. You know, you buy a part from the parts house, you put the part on the vehicle, oh, crud that didn't fix it. Do I put the part back in the box and return it as defective or. Is it it? It is what it is. You know we made a mistake and we need to eat this part. Well, Oswald service you know, we need to eat this part. We had a situation where vehicle came in a long time. And he said that there's a horrible noise coming from the engine and it's not running well. We bring it in and find out it has eight quarts of oil in it and the capacity is four. And of course, it cavitated and air into the system and it ruined the engine. Well, guess who did the oil change a month and a half before. It was us, but this particular vehicle was still under factory warranty. With Honda, we could have easily said, Hey, let's just drain four quarts out of this thing and tell 'em to take it to Honda, that you know, the engine's bad and it should be under warranty. And that discussion did come up. But as me and my manager looked at each other in the eye, we just both shook our head and said, we can't do that. I mean, that was an expensive thing that we had to do. But I mean, those are our guiding principles. I mean, if you're gonna talk it, you have to walk it and you have to show people that that's the way that we do business. And by people I mean your employees. Yep. Michael Smith: I love that, Kevin. Thank you, Renee. This, this nobility I like to. Use the word in this kind of a scenario as a platform for the Oswald Way, how does that resonate with your community leadership work? You're sitting in community groups with the business leaders of your region, getting to know them. You operate this way. You have to have their respect. How does, how does this help you guys to, to build local presence and reputation and brand strength? Brand value? Tell us a little bit about that. Because I know coming from the outside, this is very clear for you. Right. And how this works so Renae Oswald: well. It's actually really fun, Michael, because it's, it's a surprise for people when I start talking to them about this and they're like, you're an automotive repair shop. I mean, yeah, we are, and we've got our crap together. Excuse my language. But, you know this is the way that we wanna function. And, you know, I mean. When you sit in business meetings, you sit with other business leaders, you hear them talk about mission, vision, values and all of that kinda stuff. But how many of us, and I will say this, coming from the corporation that I was at before, we had beautiful mission, vision values, and we never looked at 'em. I don't believe that they live by them. And so it's, it's a, it's really, it's a real test for us. And it's a good test for me because I love for somebody to say, well, you're an automotive repair. Why do you have this? And I, you know, you guys are crooks. I can't believe that you would even claim to have this kind of stuff. I love that kind of challenge because I can say, yeah, we have a responsibility to live up to what we're saying that we're doing, and I want you to test us. And the minute that we're not living up to the Oswald way on our website, we actually, and we actually promote this. Like we publish it and we say, if you ever see us not behave this way, I need you to call us out on this. I want you to be, you have permission to hold us accountable. If you ever see me functioning this contrary to this in our business, in the community, however we're doing it, I expect you to call me out on it. And so it's been really fun to be able to represent the Oswald Way and to have. I mean, there's probably a point, 1% chance where I'm a little bit worried like, oh gosh, are we really doing this? But for the most part, we are. And to be able to say, you know, test us. I, and, and I want them to show us if we're not living that way, so that we can improve. And that is what we use it for as our clearing call and our you know, this is now, if we're not living to this. This is how we can improve. So it's fun to use in the community. It's fun to be a little bit different in the industry. I love it. Michael Smith: Absolutely, and, and you know, it, it's statistically absolutely true that the masters of every industry are ma more mature, not just age, but experienced people who have higher level social thinking. Than people who are young, immature, and just getting into a job. And so the more you, we've talked about this a lot internally in the groups that we're in and someti in our time together. The more you walk this out internally and externally, the more you become a beacon in the industry. But that serves you from the standpoint that the very best team members, the greatest leaders, the people who are the masters, who are they? Some of 'em gave up long ago hoping they would ever find a shop that walks the way you guys walk. And all of a sudden they bump into you and they go, oh, this is weird. Could it be true? I didn't think this industry had a lot of folks that thought that. That way when they find you, you are the great. Treasure box. They want to take their gem that they are and jump in and be part of it, and it changes everything because when they show up every day and they live it and walk it and breathe it because it's theirs as well, then the customers feel it. And when the customers feel it, the community feels it, and literally it becomes real. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy when the belief structure becomes real and it's, and you've got it. The Oswald way is the, the flywheel, if you will. You just keep spinning it faster and faster and it has a big, makes a bigger and bigger tornado, a bigger, bigger impact. And you guys are, be doing this beautifully and your son get to the opportunity to walk in and join you. Nick, on his own path, Jake possibly. Coming alongside, right? To see what, what his his part of this would be and the attunement that you have to him and to his future and his career is absolutely precious. Would any comments on that then? I want to take it one step further and a little bit of time that we have left. Any thoughts about this with you all? How does that resonate with you? That's your hearts, right? Renae Oswald: Kev Kevin Oswald: you know, it's just really kind of romantic to me just to think about having my son in the business, having this fourth generation. And for the longest time when Nick decided to leave the business you know, it. It really kind of hurt because again, as I said earlier, I just thought it was gonna be the three of us going off into the sunset and having to shift. And you know, it changed my mindset and go, okay, you know, we need to concentrate on Jake. We need to concentrate on his success. We need to make sure that you know, the mistakes that we made with his eldest brother. We try to write that with him, and I, I, I think it's wonderful. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. That's beautiful. Renee, your, your thoughts at this point to share? Renae Oswald: I think just based off of something that you said about how people in the industry can see it. I, I'm telling you, the team that we have right now is beyond what we ever thought we could have. And we just had an individual that left our organization. We hired him, you know, it was one of those like, oh, he is gonna produce, he's just this little, you know, and he was a machine. He could absolutely do work and do it fantastically, but, and Kevin can speak to this, he knew he wasn't the right fit, but we thought we can make it work. I don't know why we continue to keep trying to convince ourselves that we can do this. Right. And of course, he ended up being miserable in our organization. It was not the culture that he wanted. He wanted to be a burner producer. Scorch the earth. I don't care who I, you know, take down in the, in the process. And man, he is an amazing tech for whoever he's working for now. I mean, they're, they're going to get some great work outta him, but what we saw was it was not the right fit. He, he didn't fit in our culture because of how we behave. And that's okay. That's absolutely okay. But the team that we have now are exactly like you just talked about. We, where have these gems come from? Like we are just so fortunate to be able to have individuals who are not only technically competent and so good at their work, but they are. Aligned with the Oswald Way and they appreciate what we're trying to build. And we have one individual, bless his heart, who had said yes to a different shop and I'm so sorry to one of our competitors, but then took that back because. They were like, we see where you're going. We wanna be with you. And so we're, we're coming on your training. And, you know, we didn't offer him anything really different than the other shop did. It's just the vision and the way that we have it organized was what he, that's something he wanted to be a part of. So that's, that's such a compliment. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. That's brilliant. And, and I will just say this, to add to what you're saying, it isn't just to leaders in your business, this trickles down from a career development standpoint. It trickles down in your conversations about performance and about, you know, pay. Everything you guys do is aligned with the Oswald Way, and when you walk it as consistently as you do. And you're giving your, your team something to believe in, right? And what it ends up doing is drawing people who believe in the same thing to join you in what you believe in, and then collectively you're making the difference that you wanna make in the world that you live in, and that that rubs off. The customers feel it and perspective, new team members feel it, and, and in a odd kind of a way, which works out best in the end. Even people who might be there that don't feel it. Feel it because then they feel maybe this isn't the best place for me. And it gives them clarity about where to go and find their future joy as well. This is you know, I, it, it plays out very similar to what you're doing every single time and it's, it's an iterative. Process that takes time to get its momentum up. But once it does, it takes on a life of its own. And you guys are building something very noble, something very powerful. And the beauty of having your family walk in behind you is just, I mean, that's just, that's got to be icing on the cake of all of this, which I, I know how you both feel, right? It's, it's it's almost tear making, right? It's so deep and, and, and beautiful. So listen, thank you both. So much. Anything else you wanna share with our folks before we peel out either of you? Any wishes or anything for them? Any recommendations before we go? Renae Oswald: I, I would just say we can't thank you enough, Michael, for being our Sherpa through all of this because, you know, we've, we've been with, we've been with coaches for much of our business ownership and they have taken us, every one of them have been so valuable in our lives. Have taken us different places in different steps in this organization, in, in our organization. And we are, we're with the right individuals now that are taking us to that next step. And so I just highly recommend coaching and mentoring in whatever form you can get that as business owners, it's worth absolutely every penny of your investment. Michael Smith: Yeah, we couldn't agree more. Thank you, Renee. Thank you for that. Your kind words too. Yes. Kevin, final thoughts for our folks that have joined us? Kevin Oswald: Yeah, absolutely. I just wanna reiterate what Renee was talking about again, and Michael. Thank you. You know, we always say that we need to work on the business instead of in the business. Now I'm working on the business and I feel like I am. Now transitioning from working on the business to a new level of working on the value of my business. And so you know, I'm transitioning from the day to day to building value in my business. You know, doing that for, you know, expansion, acquisition working on our culture, working on our pro our processes. And you know, this is a mindset that I didn't have two years ago. And, thank you, Michael, for you're welcome. Opening my eyes to something else that was out there. And yeah we're going full guns. So Michael Smith: my privilege to walk beside you. I'm deeply proud of you two, and I love what you're building, so just don't stop, just keep going. We're watching you, the whole market's watching you. Thank you. And thanks to everybody who came to join us today. We hope there's lots of nuggets here for you. And if you want any more information, we are here. We'd love to chat with you. So Oswald, again, thank you. More power to you. Keep going. Can't wait to see you in the headline. Love you guys. Bye. Thank you.

193 - Ask Me Anything: Why Most Shops Aren't as Profitable as They Think February 18, 2026 - 00:58:05 Show Summary: If your shop shows strong net profit but your bank account feels empty this episode explains why. It defines the gap between paper profit and real cash flow and outlines debt service coverage current ratio and two turnkey rates that reveal true break even. The conversation exposes hidden profit drains such as inaccurate labor costing excess overhead unused subscriptions credit card fees insurance costs and parts leakage. It also examines marketing ROI customer acquisition cost lifetime value and technician utilization. You will leave with a clear plan to protect cash strengthen reserves and make confident financial   Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute   Guest(s): Eric Joern, CPA, CM&AA, AAM, KAIZEN CPAs + Advisors Show Highlights: [00:02:29] – Why profit on your P and L does not mean cash in the bank [00:05:54] – How debt service coverage reveals true financial strength [00:08:26] – Current ratio and short term liabilities explained simply [00:11:00] – Sales tax mismanagement and the tax squeeze trap [00:13:45] – Inaccurate labor costing distorts gross profit [00:16:30] – The two turnkey rates every shop must calculate [00:20:10] – Marketing ROI customer acquisition cost and lifetime value [00:33:10] – Subscription creep and IT spending that drains profit [00:51:00] – Parts leakage and missed charges costing thousands [00:54:45] – Simple expense audits that uncover hidden cash   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/MfSztSEzZag   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript:   Kent Bullard: Hello everybody and welcome to today's Ask Me Anything. Uh, I'm joined with Eric Jorn from Kaizen CPA. Um, I said that right? Correct. Kaizen, Eric Joern: you, you, you guys got it down. Kent Bullard: Nailed Eric Joern: it. I appreciate that. Love it. Love it. Kent Bullard: To today, we're gonna be talking about why you're not as profitable as you, you think. It. Um, this isn't a MA so as you guys are asking questions in the comments, me and Eric are gonna be paying attention to that and making sure that we get those questions answered. Kent Bullard: Okay. Um, a few things I want to just touch base on and we'll, we'll re revisit this again, but we have a few things that we've got coming up that we're doing in partnership with Kaizen. Which is we have a financial intensive, which is gonna be going over all of your finances, getting everything set up correctly. Kent Bullard: Um, here at Institute Headquarters in April on the 23rd through the 20. Fourth, I think it's a two day. Um, you guys can find that on our website at we are the institute.com/events or upcoming events. Um, and check that out. It's gonna be fantastic. Eric, do you wanna speak a little bit to that? Eric Joern: Yeah, yeah, I'd love to. Eric Joern: We're we're excited. We have, uh, our whole entire partner group will be there. So you are getting the whole roster of heavy hitters and it, and it is gonna cover finance from A to Z meaning. How does this interpret financials? Your basic p and l and balance sheet, and what information to clean from that? Eric Joern: All the way to I've exited my business and how do I manage that new wealth that I created through the process and obviously the steps on how to get from A to Z to. That, uh, that wealth creation stage. Kent Bullard: We've had a lot of people, especially through our, our round tables and through through the institute work that have asked for, you know, something like this and we, we spent a lot of time going through all the items that need to be included in that us as well as, uh, oh, I guess I'm Cecil today. Eric Joern: Love that. Kent Bullard: But, uh, to really just define exactly what you guys need in an intensive. So if you, if you're really scrambling with your finances, this is a, this is the intensive. You should, you should attend. Um, and the last thing, and maybe I'll say that for later, let's, let's just jump into some content. Kent Bullard: Okay? So Eric, I'm gonna ask you why. In your experience with the shops that you worked with, why do you feel that they're not as profitable as they think they are? Eric Joern: Wow. Do we not only work with around 200 shops ourselves as current clients, we probably talk to another 200 shops every year that, that are not clients. Eric Joern: So when we're talk, when we're going through the financials, right, that actually one of the biggest questions we get is, I made money on paper, but I have no cash. Right, and profit can be an interesting thing to to think about, right? You can just say, Hey, this is what is on my p and l, and I'm good and happy with it. Eric Joern: All, but what we don't know is we were hyper leveraged. Meaning we, we used a bunch of loans to buy everything that we needed, or, hey, we're early, you know, we're early on year one, two, or three. We had to go out to the bank, get loans to buy all the equipment to maybe we bought the shop and now we're paying the TE service. Eric Joern: Well, that, that's not accounted for on the bottom line on your p and l No, that comes out of your profit. So that might be one of the, um, supernatural reasons why you, uh, you might not feel like, Hey, I'm as profitable as the, as the p and l my accountant gave me. Or even worse, the tax return said. Kent Bullard: I mean, there's a lot of things, there's a lot of things you can look into. Kent Bullard: You know, I, I've, uh, had a client in the past where, I mean, they were doing about 27% net profit. And so we went through the numbers. We looked at their, their gp, we looked at their parts, we looked at their labor, we looked at their expense controls and everything, and they were a 27%, uh, net operating profit. Kent Bullard: But like you just said, they were over leveraged. They took a lot of loans. They, they overextended and so their debt repayments every month was like $13,000. So it was eating all of their profits up, let alone being able to set anything aside for taxes or for, you know, being able to, uh, you know. Have, have a, have a cushion, right? Kent Bullard: I mean, how many shops out there have you worked with that don't have that? You know, three to six months of operating capital. Eric Joern: Yeah. Build a reserve, right? Pay down debt. Eradicate debt. Build a reserve. Oh, and you gotta pay taxes too, right? So maybe you hit $300,000 of profit on paper and you could be. That profitable performance wise. Eric Joern: But now we're paying a third Don, uncle Sam. The third goes to debt service and the third is sitting in our savings account. 'cause we had no emergency savings. Kent Bullard: That's right. And think about that. So if you've, if you've, if you're showing net profitability on paper and you don't have any money, what's gonna happen come tax season? Eric Joern: Yep. You're gonna, you're gonna get squeezed. I call it a, the tax squeeze. Kent Bullard: It hurts, it punches you in the face. Eric Joern: It's uh, it's something that we dealt with a lot. Uh, you know, we've worked with businesses outside of the automotive repair industry. Um, our construction contractor, contracting friends. Right. You guys see 'em in your shops, right? Eric Joern: They get new trucks pretty, pretty frequently 'cause they don't want to pay tax. Right? So they're buying trucks every year, but they buy 'em on loan and eventually we run out of deductions 'cause we're accelerating. We're super aggressive 'cause we don't wanna pay tax. And now we gotta pay loan payments. But I run out of deductions. Eric Joern: Next thing you know, I have no cash 'cause I'm using it to pay my my trucks off, but I don't have the tax deduction 'cause I used it or maybe even wasted it in prior years. Now all of a sudden, I don't know where I'm gonna get the cash to pay my taxes. And we see 'em on installment plans for taxes all the time. Kent Bullard: So, you know, we might be, there might be somebody out there right now who's like, well, I'm not profitable. Yeah. I, you know, so I'm not even showing profit on paper. How do I, uh, and in fact, I'd love to just talk to you about this, about cash flow strategies. How do I know if I'm in a healthy position or not? Eric Joern: Yeah. We, um, couple things, right? So a, we can put on our banker's lens and a banker's going to look for one and a half to two times what's called debt service coverage ratio. Meaning I'm making enough. Profit and cash flow from my operations to cover my debt. At least one and a half. My debt payments at least one and a half to two times throughout the year. Eric Joern: So meaning if say, so Kent Bullard: what's the, Eric, what, what would be the formula for that? How would I know what my ratio is and whether or not I'm, I'm one and a half to two over. Eric Joern: Yep. So what is, what is your principal portion of your loan payments? So meaning I say I make a $2,000. Per month loan payment of that 1500 pays down my principal 500 is expense on my p and l as interest expense. Eric Joern: So we have then our net profit at the end of the year. So say that is a hundred thousand and well actually, that that already does, uh, no, it maths out. Nevermind it doesn't. So we have 18,000 that we have in debt service and we have a hundred thousand in profit. Right. We're now covering that debt service. Eric Joern: Five times it's five and change, but let's just say five times we're covering that. So that means with the profit we can afford to pay our debt payments five times. Good, healthy position to be in. So then Kent Bullard: you're in a healthy position there. But if you don't, if you're below two Eric Joern: Yep. Kent Bullard: How does the bank view that? Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah. Two, two, they have to sit in front of a loan committee and make a hard decision. Right. And that you might get some emotional, um, decision making to, to make a debt decision. They might say, eh, we gotta look now at history. What does proforma look like? What do we look at going forward? Um, and we don't want to get into a point where we have, we have the bankers making an emotional decision, right? Eric Joern: At the end of the day, they gotta get paid and they gotta safely get paid. Right? They're gonna evaluate a risk-based decision. So when we're in one and a half to two, I believe under one and a half is almost a, at least for most lending situations that we, we go to now you can go SBA, there's a lot of other routes you can jump through, but most banks are aren't happy with a one and a half. Eric Joern: Uh, one and a half is bare bones, bottom line. Um, so we really wanna see that that's leverage, Kent Bullard: and especially depending on the ba, the bank that you work with. You might not have a great conversation with them because they're not gonna be kind of like a, a smaller bank that is looking at loans like that. Kent Bullard: They might be large and they wouldn't care. It wouldn't be worth it to them. Eric Joern: Absolutely. And then they're gonna look at something like a current ratio, right? How many, how much, how much do I have in current assets? So, so now we're moving to a balance sheet, right? Um, which is weird. Most of us don't even look at a balance sheet ever. Eric Joern: Right? How many shop owners actually know what's on their balance sheet? So, Kent Bullard: so just to to recap, we have debt service coverage ratio. Eric Joern: Yep. Kent Bullard: Right. Okay. And then now you're talking about your current ratio. What's the current ratio? Eric Joern: Yeah, current ratio. Simple. Simple equation. Current assets divided by current liabilities. Eric Joern: So, so what does that mean? So say I, you, I have a lot of terms with my parts vendors, right? And at the end of the month, a lot of us as shop owners have been in this position. We haven't, we've kept our, our finger off the pulse and, and next thing you know, we get that parts statement and it's 15,000. We got 10 grand in the bank and our heart c crunches a little bit. Eric Joern: Well, we have an under one debt service ratio, right? We have less cash than we have. Debt owed to our vendors and Right. And we're talking short term debt, meaning this is, these are things that we have to pay in less than a year. So that's what, a, not even that, Kent Bullard: but the short term is gonna have a lot higher interest rate on that. Eric Joern: Exactly. So Kent Bullard: even you could be making payments and feeling like you're making a dent, but it's not touching the principle Eric Joern: for credit cards. Right. It's Kent Bullard: not touching the principle. Eric Joern: Exactly. So, so, so we wanna see that at least over one. Right. And it, and it really depends on, on what your, um, how much do you, how much. Eric Joern: Volume to go through. Right. If, if we're constantly churning, if you're just barely over one, well that gets a little scary, right? You, you lose one, you know, something happens. The shop has to shut down for a period of time. Kent Bullard: You're not gonna have that, that cushion to be able to keep operations up. Yeah. Kent Bullard: 'cause you don't have it. Eric Joern: I, Kent Bullard: I advise, you know, taking some kind of percentage and doing an allocation every single month or every, every, every period where you're gonna be doing your regular rhythm, either the 12th or 25th, whatever, whatever your rhythm is. And just setting aside that money. Just, just 'cause put it in a, in a bank account that you have to physically go to, to pull money out just so that you know that if something happens, it's there. Kent Bullard: It's not, it's not touched. Eric Joern: New Shop, our Kent Bullard: biggest. Eric Joern: Using that principle. Kent Bullard: Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Eric Joern: Eric. New shop. We're new at this, I guess. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Eric Joern: Uh, new shop owners, um, one of the biggest things that we see, sales tax debt, because they don't do exactly what you talked about, right? Every 10th, 25th, whatever it may be, we're moving that money over. Eric Joern: That is, uh, I'll, I'll call that precious cargo, the sales tax money that you collect because it's never really yours. Taking it, handing it off back to the state. You're never, it's not an income, it's not expense. Kent Bullard: What would you recommend in terms of how, how, how much should I be putting away for that, Eric Joern: for sales tax? Eric Joern: Um, well, the great news is you can run a report on your shop management system that tells you exactly how much sales tax you collected. That's the, that's the simplest way to do it. Right. So we we're on Friday or maybe Monday every week. We go and we look and see in our shop management system, we collected, you know, $2,000 in sales tax and we're gonna transfer that money right over into a, an account that we pay our sales tax out of. Eric Joern: And that way we don't spend it. And, and we're getting into Profit First Concepts. Uh, I actually taught a class on Profit first, I think last week or the week before. Kent Bullard: Um, it's something I'm, I'm personally really passionate about. I've been doing Profit First myself personally for, you know. A very long time, and it's something that's like a, I also did it in juxtaposition with like, uh, Rami, uh, the automated, like, I'll teach you to be rich. Kent Bullard: Okay. Yep. Those systems, because like behaviorally, like I am, I'm impulsive, I have a DHD, I have a hard time managing my finances, so I try to create the systems that are automatic that I don't have to touch because as soon as I touch it, I'm gonna break it. Eric Joern: Yeah. Kent Bullard: Oh, a hundred percent And I'm gonna ruin something. Kent Bullard: Um, but for me, I also make sure that there's at least an additional cushion on top of that. Not just, you know, say we took in 2000, but maybe I might have like a, a five to 10% cushion on top of that to say, okay, instead of 2000, we're gonna do $2,200 and move that over. Eric Joern: Absolutely Kent Bullard: right, so that you have just a little bit more just in case. Kent Bullard: 'cause something always happens. Something always comes up. Eric Joern: And the great news, if the cash is not in your bank account, you're probably not going to spend it. Kent Bullard: Exactly. You, I don't see it. It doesn't exist. Eric Joern: Yeah. Kent Bullard: Right. Eric Joern: A hundred percent. All right, so, so we talked about cash flow, but now let's talk about, you know, hey, I think I'm. Eric Joern: Like most shop owners we're probably mostly making our profitability decisions based on our shop management system only, and I think Kent Bullard: half the conversation there Eric Joern: ha exactly. I think most of you know why shop owners think they're profitable and then they're really not come from, Hey, we have not captured accurate data inside of our shop management system. Kent Bullard: That's the other thing is like, you know, I've, I've, I've brought in a few. New clients over the past, you know, one or two months. And we go in there and we're looking at their labor gp, the shop management system says that they're at 70% or around there. And I go, all right, I automatically don't trust that. Kent Bullard: So let's jump in. And we see that it's not, it's not adding any kind of a, a labor or wage or cost to that in the shop management system. Eric Joern: Yeah. Kent Bullard: Which, if we actually ran the numbers, you know, like one of my clients, um. Three weeks ago they were, we were doing the math and it's like, that's the thing. I love it that Wayne says it, the math's got a math. Kent Bullard: So we look at the math, got a math, we're missing, we're missing $15,000 at the bottom line, but we've got our margins, quote unquote. But when we add back in, we see that, oh, we didn't get a 70% labor gp. Mm-hmm. We got, you know, a lot less than that. Less than 50% or around 50%. And if you were to add that back in, well that's where the money went. Kent Bullard: That's where your net profitability went. You know, we talk about shooting for that 65% gp so that you have that. But here's the thing, and this is the way I like to think about it. So my GP essentially is for every dollar I bring in, like if I were to bring a dollar in and my GP was at 50%, that's 50 cents on the dollar. Kent Bullard: I get to pay my expenses with those 50 cents. And so then it comes down to cost controls. And this is where I see a lot of the shops are like, well, I don't, I'm, I'm getting the margin Now. You set your, your parts margin, your labor margins. You're, you're getting a little better about how you, how you estimate the jobs and, and the work and all that, and how we sell it. Kent Bullard: We get more conversion, but at some point, all of that money doesn't make it to the bottom line. Where do you see a lot of people kind of miss when it comes to expense controls? What are the things that are out of, out of sync or, uh, out of leverage or over leveraged? Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of what we see is those who, who aren't intentional with their spending. Eric Joern: So they might be working with a marketing agency. Because somebody told 'em to, right? Hey, you need to spend more on marketing. You need to spend 5% of your sales on marketing. They hear something like that. And I'm using marketing because Kent Bullard: I'm guilty. Kent Bullard: We've said that, Eric Joern: but with a Kent Bullard: caveat and an Eric Joern: Exactly. Yeah. It is. Eric Joern: Uh, yeah. Five. Go spend 5%. Okay, cool. We're gonna go sponsor my, my, uh, my nephew's baseball program. Um, well, not really good ROI out of it. Theoretically, you could spend, hey, and you know what, and if you spend the same amount on marketing, but it works. It increases sales. Now we have more. We have a lower overhead cost and a higher net income cost. Eric Joern: So that's why I talk about being intentional with your expenses. Right? What is my ROI on that individual expense? Will it increase labor or will it increase? Um, increase gross profit will increase revenue. And if we can increase revenue, we could start outrunning our other expenses after we pay our technicians and pay for our parts. Eric Joern: Now we, but a lot of people don't even know what Kent Bullard: their, what, where that, that first break even is. Eric Joern: Yep. The turnkey rate. And now you, and you have two questions to answer, right? Yeah. Turnkey rate on your p and l and turnkey rate from a cash flow standpoint, right? Because we started the conversation about talking about debt service, but on my p and l is, is our turnkey rate, right? Eric Joern: What, what other expenses do I need to pay, but if I ignore my debt service? I, I'm not really hitting the cash net profit that I need to the money that actually will end in the shop, right? 'cause if we're doing planning on profit, right? Ideally we say, okay, we want to hit, uh, and when it comes to profit, I start like, like, I like to talk about dollars and percentage, right? Eric Joern: Mm-hmm. Percentage says I'm operating efficiently, but dollars are what I can do with that profit. Kent Bullard: Exactly. Eric Joern: And if I want to do a build, right? Hey, I, I wanna do an expansion on my shop. And I need to earmark how much, how much, how many dollars did I have? And I, and if I set that and I say, Hey, I want to hit this profit and have this excess profit to, to fund this buildup for next year, but I forgot that, hey, I also need to include my, my loan payments in there. Eric Joern: I'm gonna come up short of that number because I just did, I did the math, didn't math Kent Bullard: you, you didn't do a proper burn rate calculation. I know that I'm gonna be spending an additional 5,000 a month for the next eight months. They said it's gonna be four months, I'm gonna double up. 'cause construction usually takes longer than that. Kent Bullard: Yeah. And instead of 5,000, maybe I'll shoot for 8,000 a month and if, if, if I don't have that 8,000 in, in, you know, uh, my net operating after the fact. Well even then, 'cause you're, again, you were saying paying the debt service off. Right? Mm-hmm. All that debt, all that liability that's gonna eat away at your cash flow. Eric Joern: You might have the percentage, but you don't have the money, then Kent Bullard: you don't have the money and the dollars to pay it. Eric Joern: Yep. Super important to think about that. Um, but now as we're, we're coming through the operating expense section, right, right away I'm going to look at occupancy. What's it cost for me to be in my building, right? Eric Joern: Because if I'm at 12.5% for that number. Well, I don't have an operating expense problem. I have a revenue problem. That's where my focus needs to be all in on revenue at that point. But if I'm at 4%. My net income's not where it wants to be and my, what my gross profit is. Now we need to start combing through the rest of the expenses. Kent Bullard: So, so first off, you said marketing and I, I want to caution people. So if we're already having an issue when it comes to revenue. Like overall revenue. One of the worst things we can do is turn off the spigot, so it comes with an asterisk. There's always a few things I look at when it comes to marketing. Kent Bullard: I'm gonna just go through them really briefly. The first is, are we optimizing every vehicle that's coming in? So 300% rule, good, thorough inspection? Are we estimating all the work that was found and identified, excuse me, identified and determined how those gonna kill me for that? And old hell, at Eric Joern: least you didn't fumble kaizen. Kent Bullard: Right. Right. And then, and then the third and the third a hundred percent is that we, that we presented and converted as much as the work as we can. The, the next thing is are we, are we actually following up on that deferred work? 'cause that's another bit of opportunity. Uh, then I look at regular touchpoint with customers. Kent Bullard: So what is our incoming phone script that would convert more of our best customers? And we address that. What does our check-in process look like? Where we can set expectations and also look at things like, you know, uh, making sure, Hey, where did you find us? So we know what lead source is gonna be most effective. Kent Bullard: And then at the end, like when we do the customer checkout, we ask for the three RSS review, referral and return appointment. Then we look at. What is our next best step when it comes to marketing our current customers? How many people haven't been in the last six to seven to eight months that we can call and get scheduled an appointment? Kent Bullard: Do it on slow day action plan. Yeah. Kent Bullard: Then not even touching marketing yet. We're gonna go to referrals. Can we ask our customers to get us a referral and go through referral list? And then once we've exhausted a lot of those things, then it can come down to how are we spending our marketing dollars? Eric Joern: I think people forget about how valuable. Eric Joern: A customer is once they're in your database, once they exist in your database, what is the cost to get that name inside of your database? You might be surprised it might be a hundred dollars to get that customer in that just that name in your database. So meaning if, if I'm, if, if I. You know, I'm, I'm rushing through and I'm passing on those opportunities and I think you listed it five or six easy opportunities. Kent Bullard: Oh yeah. And those don't, those don't cost you anything other than time and effort and fixing your processes. Eric Joern: But if it costs you a hundred dollars to bring this new customer in the door to replace an existing one, right? We're taking that right off, right out of gross profit, Kent Bullard: right? Eric Joern: So if you made $300 of gross profit, you really only now have made $200 because of that cost, initial cost of acquisition, you had to pay for Kent Bullard: the marketing. Kent Bullard: Yeah, Eric Joern: you can say, Hey, lifetime value and justify it that way. But I, I don't like doing math calculations to justify, um, improper execution. We can, I love Kent Bullard: that. Eric Joern: You can find, well, it's like statistics in general, right? You can find, you can swing the statistics any way you want to justify what you want, want to do. Eric Joern: But if you do that and you're, at the end of the day, you're not hitting your goals, you're just, you're just giving yourself an excuse. You're not holding yourself accountable too. Kent Bullard: So, so I wanna go back, 'cause right now we talked about, you know, we're looking at expense control. By the way, those of you who joined us later. Kent Bullard: In this, uh, live stream, ask questions. We're talking about why you are not as profitable as you think. You know, it looks on paper that you're profitable, but you don't have anything in the bank account. That's what we are conversing about today. Uh, again, joined with Eric Jordan from Kaizen, uh, CPA. The, what I wanna go back to is you said there's two, two turnkey rates that we want to. Kent Bullard: Pay attention to. What are those specifically? 'cause we, we went into 'em, but I just want to clarify those for everybody out there. Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah. Kent Bullard: The first turnkey rate is what? Eric Joern: Yeah. What, what is our, our, what is our net income turnkey rate, right? So how much on our p and l does it cost for us to break even? So, so we, Kent Bullard: right. Kent Bullard: So that, would that be all expenses plus our. Debt services. Eric Joern: So I'd do that before debt service, right? 'cause that's the ca, that'll be a cash flow turnkey, Kent Bullard: right? Eric Joern: Meaning, meaning we're gonna take that one step further. So, you know, are we operating profit or are we operating at break even, right? Are we charging right margins, et cetera. Kent Bullard: So, so for those who don't, you know, I'd look at things like, what does it cost me to do? So my cost of goods and services plus my, my expenses, and that could be sales expense, marketing expense, and fixed expenses. Correct. Eric Joern: Yep. Yeah. What it cost me to be in my building, pay my accountant. I have beautiful to, Kent Bullard: and so if I were to add that up, that becomes my first benchmark for cash flow. Kent Bullard: Right? My break even for cash flow. Eric Joern: Yep. Yep. Let's just say we're in a million dollar shop and that number's 400,000, right? It costs me 400,000 to pay my rent. I pay myself as the, in the peer owner seat. Um, I'm paying my accountant, I'm paying for my shop management system. I'm paying for my marketing agency, et cetera, all those things. Kent Bullard: So, so at the very least, I have to be doing around $34,000 a month to make that. So that would be my first benchmark to break even. The second turnkey rate is what Eric Joern: is now we're now we're talking about. Total cash flow. So now we have to factor in what my debt service is, right? What do I have to pay on long, long-term fixed debt? Eric Joern: So that, that's not gonna include like a credit card unless you're holding credit card long. You, you've accumulated debt on a credit card, you're carrying a balance. Kent Bullard: I, I'd rather assume people are than aren't. 'cause if you look at, you know, today's statistics, most people have, have, um, that debt. Eric Joern: And if you're doing that, my suggestion is you're stopping using the credit card. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Stop and freeze it. Cut it. Yep. Throw it away. Uh, we're, I wouldn't close the account there. Somebody would argue, well, I want to, I want to have my credit, my point liability. How are my points? Liability alone is just either that or set it to automatically pay off every single month, but you still have to account for it. Kent Bullard: So my second would be, okay, how much do I pay in my debt services monthly? Eric Joern: Yep. Yep, yep. So what do I have to pay for debt service monthly? So, right, if, if, if, if I'm, if I have that same example and we're at 34,000 and we have another 6,000 a month in, in debt service, now we're at Kent Bullard: 40,000, then I'm target 40,000 Eric Joern: or Kent Bullard: 40 a month, I would say, I would even say add another 10 to 15% cushion on top of that so that you can have some kind of a plan to pay some of these debts down a little sooner. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Eric Joern: You Kent Bullard: know, avalanche, snowball method, whatever that is. If we don't plan for it, then the money's not gonna be there for it. Eric Joern: Start building some reserves Kent Bullard: or build reserves. Yeah. Set aside 10 to 15% just into an account. And, uh, for me personally, I like to see six months of operating expense, but I had a client they're doing, they'll do about 5 million. Kent Bullard: Right. And it's like, okay, well they're, they're, they're, how much do keep for, I mean, three months is gonna be, do you know what I mean? So it's Eric Joern: like that better be in, in a income bearing account, not a, uh, checking account, Kent Bullard: uh, money market account of some kind. Savings Eric Joern: account, money market, high yield savings account. Eric Joern: Those are starting to temper a lot. But I mean, we, we lived in a world where we're getting four or 5% and pretty accessible cash. Um, huge opportunity missed by a lot all the time. It's, it blows my mind. Uh, you, you, you open great business, great business owner, right? You've accumulated $400,000 of cash and you're earning in a traditional savings account, less than a percent of, of return on that money. Eric Joern: You are probably, it is devaluing as it sits in that savings account. Kent Bullard: So if I were. Kent Bullard: To set these benchmarks. I've got 34,000 to hit my cash flow. I've got 40,000 to make sure I'm covering my debt service. Then after that, I can start thinking about what the net profitability is and what I can take home. Right. Exactly. In order to hit whatever that number is. So if I wanna make 200,000, uh, in net profit that I get to take home from my investment, I would have to do that after the fact, after that 34 and that 40,000. Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah. Kent Bullard: Anything beyond that. Eric Joern: 60, 58, $60,000 a month. And Kent Bullard: I would say Eric Joern: right in gross profit. Um, yeah, adding a little cushion. Right. I don't wanna factor a little cushion in there. Yep. And I love adding Kent Bullard: a little cushion. Eric Joern: It's smart though. It is smart. 'cause again, we are. We are people who, um, generally use what's available to us. Eric Joern: And if we Right. Kent Bullard: So if it's available, then we're gonna use it. Unless we've already set it aside and said, no, we're not gonna touch this, then I can't use it for something that I shouldn't be using it for. Eric Joern: Yeah. And so if we set our goal at 55, and that's the exact number to hit it, right? We're gonna do as much as we need to to hit the 55. Kent Bullard: Mm-hmm. Eric Joern: But if we set it at 58 and we hit 58, and even though that's got a little bit of slack in it, that means. That Kent Bullard: month has to make up for the month. We didn't hit 55. Eric Joern: Exactly. Another great point. Kent Bullard: This, this is something that, you know, just in, in, if we're talking about profitability and revenue and all that, one of the things I, I've seen, it's like, look, we, we are hitting this target for 55%. Kent Bullard: Let's say it's, let's say it's parts margin. We're gonna hit 55% parts margin. Yeah. And what they'll do is they'll say, well, some of these things are underneath 55%. I can't charge that much. It's gonna be 48, it's gonna be 50, whatever that is. Yeah. And then they have one that might be up near 70. And they go, oh, that's way too much. Kent Bullard: I'm gonna dial it down to 60. It's like, no, no, no, no. You needed that. You needed that buffer to, to make up the difference so that you hit that average again, it's an average, not like. The benchmark you, we wanna hit above it sometimes and, and below it. We can't help sometimes, but they have to even out to hit that, that number. Kent Bullard: It's the same thing with our cash flow. You're gonna have months where you're gonna do 60,000, 65,000 revenue, but then you'll have months where you're gonna be a lot closer towards where you don't want to be, where you're starting to out kick your coverage. You're starting to be, dip into your cash reserves. Kent Bullard: Right. Eric Joern: What happens in January, February, right when our, our revenues naturally debt. Outta seasonality, uh, all of a sudden maintaining the same rate. Then as you do in June or July when things pick up, that generally doesn't work that well. Kent Bullard: I, I think oftentimes people forget, most of this is two things like we, like right now we're kind of talking about, a little bit about generating revenue, but it's, but most of this conversation is gonna be about expense controls, and the thing is, you can, you can only go down to zero as much as you can. Kent Bullard: Right? Yeah. You're gonna hit, you're gonna hit that zero point and go, well, I, I can't go any lower because this is what it costs to rent my building. This is what it costs to, you know, pay these, these softwares and licenses or pay the employees and all that. And so then the question is, what are we doing to increase revenue? Kent Bullard: Yeah. But let's talk more about our expense control. So one of 'em we talked about was marketing. The second we talked about was occupancy or your rent, or your lease, or your mortgage, whatever that is for the building you're in. What are other areas that we might wanna look at? Eric Joern: Insurance Kent Bullard: and how do we know that we're out of, out of whack with that? Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it is where things get more difficult, right. While it, it's a lot easier to spend time concentrating on gross profit. Right. We, there's millions of benchmarks on what we need to pay for a technician, what we need to get for markup on a part. Um. And how to handle that. And, and it's impactful, right? Eric Joern: But once we get past that, it starts getting more complex, right? Because insurance, how do you know how much you should pay in insurance? And now you have variabilities around, do we provide health insurance for our employees? Where are we located? Um, have ex location has a significant impact, right? If I'm in, if I have a shop in Florida, my insurance load is gonna be astronomical compared to South Dakota. Kent Bullard: Yeah. And it's, it's important to have some grain of, you know, um, grain of salt there. You know, that's why we look at, in our gear performance groups, we're looking at comparative data. There. Peer groups are a great way to do it. Yeah. Where's that benchmark and where, how do I compare against that? But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the end all be all. Kent Bullard: You might have a benchmark that's gonna be a little higher, like. For instance, I had, I, uh, I had a client and they're kind of in a family situation where they sold the business. They're doing it where they're paying out an employee kind of a rate on that, and they're still kind of working in the business. Kent Bullard: So it's like, okay, well if we, if we looked at all this, their margins are all where they need to be, okay, but they're not, they're hitting it, you know, five to 7% net profit. And it's because their employment expense is way too high because they have too many bodies for what that business is supposed to do. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Right. And so it's like, okay, well if this is the situation, they're a C corp, how they're, how they're formulated and everything. So it's like, okay, if that's the situation, then our benchmark for net profit can't be 20%. It's gotta be 30%. Eric Joern: Yep. Kent Bullard: And then we work back the numbers from there, and that'll end up making sure that you drop the 20% that you're looking forward to at the end of the year. Kent Bullard: Like you, it's, we use these benchmarks to make strategic decisions about how, how we control our expenses and how we, how we manage these things. So. Other than occupancy, what are we looking at? Eric Joern: Yeah, so, so we're looking at, uh, we've looked at occupancy, we've talked about marketing, we've talked about insurance. Eric Joern: And insurance. You can just go, right, you can go shop rates, um, you know. Uh, even us as a firm, right? We participate in a peer group similar to gear performance groups. Uh, and one of the things that we found was our IT spend was dramatically higher than the rest in our group. And we, we went out and we did some market evaluation. Eric Joern: We found that, hey, you know what? We agree, uh, and we went and. Found a way to cut that expense pretty dramatically. Um, so as you go through your p and l, right, great exercise. It might not be a, Hey, here's a specific dollar I need to hit, but this might say I'm spending much, much more on this expense than anybody else that's in my peer group. Eric Joern: I should probably go shop and talk to other providers that can provide this service. And it could be something as small as, you know, I've been using Cintas for uniforms and cleaning carpets and all that fun stuff and you know, maybe I have some. Extra people that are in my shop that have nothing going on, or not, not as much utilization. Eric Joern: Maybe we buy a washer and dryer and clean our own uniforms. And, and I, I think that's probably a crazy idea. Um, but, you know, it's, it's using that thought and creative exercise to come up with concepts like that. Kent Bullard: I like looking for the gap. So like if I've got a goal set, okay. And we can use that. Same example, you're talking about 34, 40,000. Kent Bullard: Let's say our goal is 60,000. We have that gap of 20,000 we gotta make. Yep. Right? And so what I, what I often fear is that people go, okay, well. I'm looking for the one thing that's gonna get the $20,000. I was like, no, no, no. It's, it's a combination of things. So what can I reduce in my, my IT expense? By the way, we did this last year and we cut it, uh, down to a seventh of what it was annually. Eric Joern: Wow. Kent Bullard: And that was one of those things where it's like, okay, well we saved that much money. Okay. Uh, now we can look at what do we do to increase our revenue. It might be looking at your average repair order, increasing your inspection process, or, uh, building a better sales presentation or adding, adding more value, or even your marketing can curate the types of people that you're bringing in who are gonna value your business more than those you're currently bringing in. Kent Bullard: So it's, it's all of those different strategies combined to make the difference of that $20,000 gap. Absolutely. You know, it can't just be, I'm looking for the one thing, it's, I'm gonna have things that are gonna add to it. I'm gonna have things that, that I can take away to make that gap happen. Eric Joern: Right. Eric Joern: Yeah. It's, Kent Bullard: and if we do Eric Joern: that, that 5,000 cuts right? Is, is the principle of it. I mean, think about your personal spending, right? Amazon has probably created a lot more debt in this in the world. In consumer world, it's possible because it's easy. They made it so easy to buy and you know, Hey, it's $10, it's $15, it's $10, it's $15. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Eric Joern: And then you look at the month and you spend $800 on Amazon. Oh gosh. And you're like, what did I buy? How often are we doing that Inside of our shops too, right? Hey, Kent Bullard: my, my wife a little upset with me recently 'cause we, we ended up, uh, deleting DoorDash. Eric Joern: Mm-hmm. Oh, Kent Bullard: that's Eric Joern: a big Kent Bullard: one. Eric Joern: Yeah. Kent Bullard: But it's like those little things. Kent Bullard: They, they, you know, raindrops make oceans, man. So we covered marketing, occupancy insurance, it spend, let's do one more. What's one other big area that people tend to miss in their expense controls that are not allowing them to get the net profit they're looking for? Eric Joern: I mean, so, so we, labor is always a, a sensitive category, right? Eric Joern: And we oftentimes, when we're talking about chops and we focus on gross profit, we're talking about technician labor, but then there's an all sorts of other labor that falls below the line. Meaning we might be paying our service advisors, so right. Are we paying our service advisors correctly and are they right for the amount of volume that our shop has? Eric Joern: But maybe we have multiple, uh, maybe we are paying an office manager, we're paying a third party bookkeeper and we're paying a CPA. Kent Bullard: Maybe we're a little top heavy when it comes to our, you know. Eric Joern: Financial backend. Kent Bullard: Exactly. Our management suite or whatever that looks like, right? Eric Joern: Yeah. Or maybe we have duplicate subscription. Eric Joern: The subscriptions really is, is where we find it's never big dollars. Right? It's, you know, the a hundred bucks, 200 bucks a month. I can't tell you how many shops we've gone through the GL with them. They say, I thought I canceled that. Or, or, oh, we haven't used that in quite a while. And, you know, maybe it was a one time use, you know, it was a labor guide I needed specific access to, to figure out how to execute a certain repair. Eric Joern: And it's on an autorenew and, oh yeah, I can, on that subscription. Kent Bullard: I, well, like we even made a switch recently. Um, well. Mid last year, but we went from Slack to moving to just using Google Chat. We had it. We had the company. We're like, oh, I don't know why we didn't do this before, but I mean, when Slack is 500 bucks a month, 600 bucks a month, 700 bucks a month, depending on how many users you have, that adds up. Kent Bullard: So what are your software subscriptions that you guys are paying for that you're not actually using? Eric Joern: And it doesn't have to be, you have to cut the whole software, but sometimes you need to cut user seats. We did the same, we did a similar thing with Adobe. Kent Bullard: Mm-hmm. Eric Joern: Um, where we had Adobe it, it bloomed because we thought everybody needed it. Eric Joern: And then we looked at this, you know, next thing you know, we spent $20,000 in Adobe licenses and we said, oh, something's wrong here. So we went and interviewed the staff and turned out about 10% of the staff used it more than. You know, weekly and we said, Hmm, there's gotta be a better, cheaper alternative. Eric Joern: And maybe these power users need seats, right? Or, you know, we, we operate on a chat GPT team subscription, and while we could just go and say, everybody needs chat GPT. Now that's great. That costs our firm, I think it's like around another $20,000 a year of every single. Employee got that subscription. Yeah. Eric Joern: But instead we are asking our team to request it. The why, how often are you gonna use it? Are you using a free version with nonsensitive data first? And you're using that on a regular recurring basis because we want ROI out of that product again. Right. Okay. You're using it regularly. Now how can I measure the noticeable improvement in efficiency? Eric Joern: And now I can calculate an ROI. Does it make sense for me to spend the money on that? Because, you know, it's Kent Bullard: something that, just a simple calculation of what's my ROI on this is, it could save a lot of of dollars. Um, one we have a, oh, go ahead Eric. Eric Joern: No, we, yeah, yeah. One interesting. Oh, and we got a good question here. Kent Bullard: Yeah, we had a, a question. Sorry. What's, what's the question? Is Todd Ainsworth? So what do you think is a good target percentage for social media presence? Eric Joern: Wow. That's an, that's a, I wish that was an easy question to answer. Kent Bullard: That's a really nuanced question. 'cause you're talking about marketing in general. Kent Bullard: Marketing could be anywhere from five to 10 to 12%, depending on if you're maintaining or growing, at least what we've seen. But for me, it depends on your return. So if you're, if you're getting a five to one return on your dollar spend for social media, then yeah, do keep going. But if you're only, if you're getting a one-to-one, that's something to consider. Kent Bullard: Maybe, you know, another marketing, uh, campaign or another marketing area, uh, like your Google Ads is getting a much higher, uh. Dollar to dollar ratio. So take the expense from that and put it towards there. Eric Joern: Yeah, I, I, I avoid generalized p and l percentages when it comes to marketing spend. I, I think you have to dig deeper, right? Eric Joern: Yeah. So, so what is my cost per acquisition, my lifetime value for that customer? So you need to know your gross profit. My lifetime value. So here's how much revenue I have through the lifetime of that customer. So say my average customer visits me 20 times in their lifetime, whatever it may be, and they spend X amount is my a RO, and here's my X amount gross profit percentage, and here's what I had to pay to acquire that customer. Eric Joern: Whether it's a social media presence, whether it's a mailer, whether it's whatever it may be. Right, and that that will answer your question individually on that. On that decision Kent Bullard: I was doing, I was doing the maths. If, if they brought, you know, if our clients came in 20 times in their lifetime, it's $750 average pay order, it's around $15,000. Kent Bullard: And let's say my cost per acquisition is 50. I dunno, I've seen, I've seen a wide range, some, depending on where people are at, they might have population density, they might have to invest more, but, you know, earn from 50 to 150 for your, your cost per acquisition. Eric Joern: Mm-hmm. Kent Bullard: Right. Eric Joern: That's a pretty good ROI. Kent Bullard: That's a healthy ROI, it's 500, or like, I had somebody who was doing radio ads and they only got three people in, but it was $1,600 Eric Joern: Yeah, Kent Bullard: a month for radio ads. That's Eric Joern: not a good ROI Your lifetime value is, you know, $2,200. Right? And then your gross profit is 50% and then it costs you $500 to acquire a new customer. Eric Joern: So really lifetime value, you get outta that customer is like, I think that was six 12 or something around that. Uh. That's not gonna pay bills long term for your shop. You're not, you're not gonna be able to have that growth. Um, and, and actually when it comes to percentage, I think what something that's real, something that's really important to pair with your marketing cost is your how much cost to be in my building, right? Eric Joern: Because if I'm on a, if I'm on an interstate, or I'm in a high dense populated area where, you know, people are Googling, uh, looking for an automotive repair shop, uh. It's gonna be a lot cheaper to bring them in the door than if I am off the beaten path in a more rural area. The cost for me to get somebody in the door might be significantly higher. Kent Bullard: Well, and I. Frankly, marketing is something I really love because I want to challenge those out there. If you've got a marketing budget, be really creative with it. Mm-hmm. In, in, um, embrace those restrictions. Right. So some, somebody I was working with a little while ago, they had like a, you know, $50 off. Uh, if you spend, you know, X number of dollars with us as a promotion. Kent Bullard: Okay, well I could be really creative with. $25. Yeah. And have fresh baked cookies that I could be giving to my new customers that come in, or, you know, be more creative with that and donate it to a local, you know, community center that is, you know, really embedded in the, in the community and does good things. Kent Bullard: And it's like you could be so much more impactful with your dollars than you think. And it doesn't necessarily have to be like a transactional thing. It could be very. Cultural, it could be, you know, a lot of the, the value elements there and reinforce the type of people that you were trying to bring in. Eric Joern: Yeah. You can host an event to help to show somebody how to do a pre road trip inspection of their vehicle. Something like that, right? Gets 'em in the door, makes 'em think about how important the safety and reliability of that vehicle is long term. So, and who's gonna show up to that, to that event? Eric Joern: Probably your ICP, your ideal fit customer. That's another whole, whole marketing concept you can go to down a rabbit hole of is who is, who is my ideal fit customer. 'cause I see these questions on the Facebook groups, on the forums, you know? Oh, uh. They don't, they won't like that labor rate or they won't like that part markup. Eric Joern: And, and my question was put a lot of our own biases on that, I feel our own bias is your, is your ideal fit customer? The person that understands what a labor rate would be for, to go somewhere else for a shop or they looking at, Hey, how much will it cost to get my car operating safely back on the road? Eric Joern: And what am I willing to pay for it? That's generally your, your ideal fit customer and do they value good service fixing, fixing it right the first time and probably time, right? Kent Bullard: So, so one of the things I want to touch on right now, Todd, by the way, thank you so much for the question. Those of you out there who have any more questions, me and Eric are watching the chat. Kent Bullard: We want to answer them live while we have you here. Um, one thing I want to touch on is we can talk about these expense controls all we want, but a lot of shops out there I know are likely struggling with one of the biggest hurdles is visibility. You're telling me, you know, you know, why am I not profitable? Kent Bullard: I could see this, the numbers in the shop management system, but my p and l's not great. Eric Joern: Yeah. Kent Bullard: Here's where I'm gonna recommend, you know, we've been working with Eric and frankly, you guys and your team have done the majority of the work, but put together a kind of a, a chart of accounts program build. So if you guys are really struggling to just get it organized and get it clean so you can see what's going on. Kent Bullard: Um, Eric now has a service that, uh, we're offering through the institute. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I'll, I'll talk, I'll open up with something we've, we found, we just finished going through this exercise with somebody, and one of the things we found was through their prior accounting process, they had bought some equipment on lease. Eric Joern: Well, I said I, I guess I contradict myself. They bought equipment on lease, so when people see a lease, they think I'm paying a monthly, I have a monthly expense that I'm incurring for that. But there's a difference between what's called operating lease and a capital lease. So he had a dollar buyout at the end of the lease, which that means effectively we bought that equipment on a loan. Eric Joern: Called it a lease, so that's called a capital lease. Well, guess what? In the prior year, if we would've treated it correctly as a capital lease, we could have accelerated all the depreciation, taking it in one year, versus spreading that cost, spreading that out over the lifetime of the payments. There's. Eric Joern: There's cost benefits, that's a whole nother decision matrix. But our goal is something as simple as that is, Hey, hey, we need to educate you around. That's how you handle this. So you have the opportunity to make that decision, right? If you, if you don't do it right, you no longer have the opportunity to make the decision on how I take that as a deduction, and is it an accurate reflection? Eric Joern: You know, if I own that at the end of the, at, at the end of the day, I don't think I want that in my lease expense account, right? I, I really want. To know, Hey, I now have an asset that my business owns exactly, and I'm going to look at that much differently than I look at something that I have an ongoing expense for. Eric Joern: And a bank looks at that differently too. Kent Bullard: So, so frankly, a lot of you out there might be struggling with, well, I don't know what decision to make because we just don't have the visibility. Yeah. I would urge you, I mean, it's, it's worth the time and the effort to get this done. The, the, the money to spend is, is totally worth it. Kent Bullard: The return on investment. Think about being able to make a. All the strategic decisions that we've been talking about with good numbers so that you can do the math and actually see what the ROI for, you know, the, the expense controls would gain you in an annual year or even for the lifetime of your business over the years. Kent Bullard: It, it will save you so much money and earn you even more. Um, and I highly advise, reach out to Eric and Kaizen and, and get that service done for you if you don't have clean books. Eric Joern: Yeah. Yeah. And I'll walk you through the process really quick of how that, what that looks and feels like because this e. Eric Joern: Even if you, you don't go this route. Think, just even think this through, right? So we start off and we do a call, we, we have a questionnaire, and then we have a call where we talk through the questionnaire and that questionnaire identifies items in your accounting process that we might feel this becomes gaps. Eric Joern: Then we're gonna address maybe even some operational things that you're doing inside of the shop that aren't even just on the p and l itself. And then we're gonna make sure that that institute GPG Ready reporting, uh, chart of accounts, is loaded into your QuickBooks file. We're gonna make sure we build a system that. Eric Joern: Matches your shop management system, back to your books. And obviously we're also gonna coach you around your shop management system on making sure you handle transactions correctly, um, in there so you have accurate reporting, and then we're gonna create you a roadmap on exactly how to replicate that every month. Eric Joern: And you walk away with essentially a, a built accounting system, um, that you can hand off to your bookkeeper. Uh, or you can, if you're executing it yourself, you can execute it yourself or, um, you know, I, I've, I have a feeling in many cases we're going to, you know, provide enough lift for our, our client to, or our, uh, that person that we're working with that they say, Hey, I don't want to deal with this. Eric Joern: This is much more complex than I thought. And you guys just keep doing it. Kent Bullard: And I highly recommend getting it done. You know, whenever we start with a new client. That's, you know, we address things like the urgent needs in care and then the immediate next step is how do we gain visibility? 'cause we can't make good decisions that have lasting, impactful, positive results if we don't know what's going on. Kent Bullard: And that visibility is massively important. Alright. Um, we're kind of in the, the final minutes here with this, uh. A MA. Anyone out there watching now, if you have any questions about, you know, why you're not as profitable as you think you should be, this is the time to ask them. Uh, you know, I was thinking about this. Kent Bullard: I was in a manager performance group meeting, um, a little while back, and we were, they were doing an exercise on proficiency. Now proficiency is really just how are we optimizing and utilizing the available hours that we have? And this is in conflict with efficiency. 'cause they're like, my guys are my, my technicians are productive. Kent Bullard: It's like, no, no, no. Your technicians are efficient. So when they're on the vehicles, they are getting the work done in a very timely and efficient manner. However, you're not utilizing all of the available time that you have in the shop. And that comes down to the shop's workflow, right? Mm-hmm. And we were doing some math in between, you know, uh, the groups here, we found $5 million of, of. Kent Bullard: Unutilized potential. Eric Joern: Wow. Kent Bullard: And it's like, it's like, look, and, and, you know, everyone kind of was like hanging their heads. It's like, oh my gosh, we, we missed a fight. It's like, no, no, no. Look, look at this. This is a good thing. Look at all this opportunity we just found. We just found $5 million. Okay. Then it comes down to just improving your workflow. Kent Bullard: How do we schedule out? Are we, are we maximizing the technician, um, uh, utilization their time? Are we, are we, uh, setting their day up for success? Are we communicating effectively? Are we managing our parts, ordering effectively, or, you know, all those things that come operationally that if you've got the numbers dialed in, and this is where I'm like, this is a frustration of mine. Kent Bullard: You're working with somebody and they're like, I need more cards. I need more of this. And it's like, if you. Have a system that is fundamentally broken and you want to dial that engine up to, you know, two, 300% of what it's doing. All you're doing is exacerbating those core fundamental issues that are there in preexisting. Kent Bullard: And so I wanna optimize before I. Increase personally, that's my, that's my statement. Eric Joern: The worst thing you could do is have to hire another technician because you've increased car count because we're not efficient or we're not optimizing. We're efficient on the car. We Kent Bullard: might have in our process. You're stretch, you're stretching the work for three technicians across five technicians, and then you've got those additional to, uh, annual salaries weighing down your expense controls. Kent Bullard: And so again, there, where's my profitability going while I'm paying? Probably far too much for labor 'cause we just didn't optimize the system. Not that any of those five technicians are doing the wrong things. But if you're gonna have five technicians, let's make sure they can produce the work of five technicians. Eric Joern: And then the knee jerk reaction is, I got a bad technician. Right? Is the first thing that they think of is, oh, they're a 50% productivity, they're a bad technician. No, always start with you and your process and your system and, and. Are there cases I made the wrong hire or the wrong person's in the wrong C? Eric Joern: Sure that can exist. I'm just gonna Kent Bullard: assume that people are doing their best first. Eric Joern: Exactly. Until you rule out that my systems, processes and procedures are not failing them. You can't put it on the employee. Kent Bullard: Yeah. So we covered marketing, occupancy insurance, IT spend, I love the IT and software. That one is such a time sink labor, right? Kent Bullard: Um, and then subscriptions. Anything else? Yeah. Eric Joern: Now, now I have to think through a, a whole p and l. I mean, we never talk, we never do. You don't have Kent Bullard: them lay Eric Joern: laid down in your Kent Bullard: head. Man, Eric Joern: we, we, uh, we never really talk about parts. Um, and we talk about parts. Gross profit, which is largely managed the shop management system. Eric Joern: Um. Parts Leakage to me is probably one of the largest expenses that we see that are, that are outside of, I guess, the initial gross profit measurement. Kent Bullard: So, so let's talk about parts leakage for a second. Eric Joern: Yep. Kent Bullard: What is parts leakage? Eric Joern: What is parts leakage? So, so normally people think about it as, Hey, um, people are stealing from me. Eric Joern: Usually not the case, but sometimes the case. Uh, but maybe we're not charging for parts, right? Or, Hey, this is too much work for me to tag this on an ro. Um. And, you know, let's talk about a, a, a drain plug gasket, right? Let's say we do 300 oil changes and drain plug gasket costs us 25 cents and we forex it on our, uh, pricing matrix. Eric Joern: That's a dollar per car. Um. Times 400 cars. It's $400 a month. It's five grand a year right there. And that's just, and I, trust me, I hear, uh, it's not worth me doing that. And I think it's Kent Bullard: 5,000 bucks. Eric Joern: That's $5,000. And then you $5. Five grand. I mean, that's a nice, that's a pretty decent vacation. Um, you know, you have those personal goals, Hey, $5,000. Eric Joern: If you, uh, you know, let's just say your cost of customer acquisition is 20%, right? That's, that is now. A hundred thousand dollars in new revenue if my math, maths, Kent Bullard: yeah. If we're, if we're not, if we're not ordering the correct part or a, you know, maybe a cheaper part, we're gonna end up paying warranty on that. Kent Bullard: Or we're able to eat the cost there. Are we not managing our core properly? Right. Eric Joern: Core return process? Are we not doing a statement reconciliation? Are we not comparing our parts usage report back to all the parts that are tagged on a repair order? I mean, uh, it Kent Bullard: just, that can save you, that can save you so much money in the long run because you've got all this, this, um. Kent Bullard: Inventory that essentially isn't being leveraged the way that it should be. Same with the labor inventory. We're not, we're not utilizing it as best as we can. Eric Joern: Yeah. It's, and again, it's leaking, right? It, it's not, we're not mis generally, we're not mispricing, we're not, we're just, we're just letting stuff drift, right? Eric Joern: We're, we, we, we haven't sharpened our processes, systems, and procedures to account for all these things. I mean, I'm working, we're working with the three location CHOP group, and we did, uh. If, I don't wanna call it an audit 'cause we didn't do an official audit, uh, but we did an analysis of, of their parts spend versus their parts usage inside of their shop management system. Eric Joern: And we found a hundred thousand dollars gap across three stores in a 12 month period. Um, you know, and then we've narrowed it down to, hey, what we've pur my parts purchase is logged in. My shop management system accounts for 50% of that, and then the other percent just is not accounted for at all. Kent Bullard: This is what drives me a little nuts is like, it's not like you're, a lot of the stuff that we're talking about, it's money that's already there. Kent Bullard: It's, this is stuff that's already in the shop. It's not doing any access, it's just being a little more, um, judicious with what we're doing. Right. I'd love to take a moment here, just those of you who've been watching the live. Just to talk about some of these categories. I'd love to know in the comments where you feel, uh, or where you think you could probably do a bit of expense control. Kent Bullard: So those categories are marketing, occupancy, insurance. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put it, spend and subscriptions together. That makes sense. Uh, labor. And I don't mean tech wages, I mean, you know, payroll, Eric Joern: overhead, Kent Bullard: overhead, Eric Joern: labor. Kent Bullard: And uh, and the last would be. Uh, parts leakage. Where do you guys feel that you could save some dollars there? Kent Bullard: Lemme know in the comments. Eric Joern: Oh, yep. Kent Bullard: Sorry. Go ahead. Eric Joern: I, I, I might, while people are, are punching that in the comments, um, another overhead expense and, and again, doesn't move the needle, but everybody can do it and it's a very easy thing to go shop your card. Credit card processing fees. Kent Bullard: Oh my gosh, yes. Eric Joern: And you know, I, I know there's a whole dynamic now around, uh, should I pass that onto my customer at this point or not? Eric Joern: What, what's your take on that? Kent Bullard: I, you know. He, here's the, here's the thick of it. If, if I wanna make the 20% for fair profit, my, my consumer's gonna pay for all of that. Yeah. Regardless, either it's gonna be loaded here or loaded there. It's gonna be in my, in my labor, in my parts. It's gonna be, it's gonna be somewhere. Kent Bullard: I think if you're talking about eating the, the credit card processing fees, just, just make sure you're, you're compensating it somewhere else. And frankly, I'd rather have a consistent experience for all of my customers, so I just eat that. But, but make sure it's calculated somewhere else. It's a better customer experience, right? Kent Bullard: Mm-hmm. If it, if it's negligible where it is, then look at the customer experience. Eric Joern: Yeah. Kent Bullard: Okay. And then the last bit of that is. Um, I mean, think about the savings. If you're processing a million dollars in a year and you can save a half a percent on, on credit card fees, how much is that? Eric Joern: There's your, there's your, there's your $5,000 vacation again. Kent Bullard: Yeah, it's a lot of money. It adds up. Um, so we're at, we're just at the end here. I did wanna say, um, you know, we're doing the institute's doing a, a launch live stream on, uh, Monday. That's gonna be 1:00 PM Mountain Time, 2:00 PM Central. We'd love for you guys to tune in. We're giving away, uh, some fun prizes and we're doing the launch of the Odd Academy, going into some details, there's some training, and we'd love for all of you to be a part of that. Kent Bullard: Um. Eric, this has been fantastic. Uh, those of you out there who, who are curious about our financial intensive will post, you know, in the follow up here, some information there as well as the chart of accounts services or, I, I don't know what we're exactly calling that, but getting your books cleaned up. Kent Bullard: Um, you guys do a fantastic job. So check out, uh, Kaizen CPAs for that. Any final comments on this? Eric Joern: Uh, hey. Everybody should walk away from this, this meeting right now. Go, go look at your general ledger, start looking at those expenses that you're paying for. What don't I need, right? Am I in too big of a QuickBooks subscription? Eric Joern: Am I using, did I pay for HR services in my payroll processor that I'm not using? All these things you, if you spend some time going through it, I bet you'll find probably that $5,000 vacation today. Kent Bullard: Awesome. Eric, thank you so much for joining me. Those of you out there, uh. We're, are we hanging out for a little bit? Kent Bullard: No. Uh, follow up. We'll post the recording of this later. Uh, thank you all for being here, and we'll see you on the next one. Eric Joern: Thanks everyone.

191 - Ask Me Anything: How to Set a Labor Rate That Actually Reflects Your Value February 11, 2026 - 01:05:37 Show Summary: This AMA explains how to price labor fairly and profitably. Lucas and Cecil break down why book time often misses real world steps and shop friction. They argue shops should charge for full value, not fear being the highest priced option. The episode covers building confident service advisors through financial literacy and clear scripting. They outline how to defend diagnostic fees by separating testing from code scanning. They warn against routine discounts and show how underpricing destroys reserves and stability. The conversation closes with practical math for labor rates, technician pay, and productivity.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast   Guest(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:01:00] – Book time versus rate changes debate [00:02:10] – Why book time ignores real work [00:04:00] – Customers pay for all inefficiencies [00:05:30] – Stop selling transparency and time talk [00:10:40] – Advisor confidence starts with numbers [00:14:15] – Sell diagnostics as cost saving testing [00:22:00] – Labor rates lag inflation and reality [00:36:55] – Discounts can bankrupt your shop fast [00:42:30] – Slow times need calls and scheduling [00:58:10] – Pay plans must reward productivity   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/O0tKJR3Lxv8   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: Oh, we wanna thank you for being here, everybody. I hope y'all are doing fantastic. I am so excited to be here. My name is Lucas Underwood with Changing the Industry podcast, and Ellen, in performance here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am joined by the one, the only Cecil Bullard, and we're gonna be talking about labor rates today. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, buddy, how you doing? Cecil Bullard: I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm doing great. Luke Lucas Underwood: Cecil, man, I'm telling you what, I'm so excited for this because this morning a question came up about exactly this. It was like to the t some of the stuff that Yeah, absolutely. Some of the stuff we've been talking about, some of the things we were saying, Hey, we need to cover this in today's webinar, a MA. Lucas Underwood: And so my buddy Dan asked a question, and Dan, for those of you who don't know him, he is probably one of the most solid shop owners you could ever meet. Absolute standup guy. And he threw out a question that stirred up a lot of emotion, right? And there's a lot of perspectives on this and Dan shared his perspective. Lucas Underwood: I don't think there's anything wrong with Dan's perspective, Cecil, but I wanna talk about it and I wanna break this down because I have a different perspective than Dan does. So is it okay if I read you this post real quick? Cecil Bullard: Oh please. Lucas Underwood: Alright, sounds good. Dan says, if we're using the manufacturer, labor guide is the baseline, but then automatically adding 20 to 25%. Lucas Underwood: To every job because the guide is wrong, aren't we? Basically saying we don't trust the system we claim to follow. If you need 25% more revenue, why not just raise your labor rate, 200 to two 50? Same money, way cleaner, way more transparent. The guide should set time. Your rate should set value. And I'm not saying every job is the same. Lucas Underwood: Older vehicle, rust belt stuff, diesel trucks, specialty work, those absolutely justify different labor rates or categories. Charge more for harder work all day long. That makes sense. But changing the rate is honest. Changing the time feels like we're gaming the book. If we all say we use a standard, then we should actually use the standard. Lucas Underwood: Otherwise, it undermines our credibility as an industry. Seems simpler. Just to price your hour correctly and leave the book time alone. Now Cecil, I wanna share my perspective first. As a shop owner, right? I've, I have worked with a number of manufacturers and folks from the manufacturers over the years, and I understand how book hour is calculated and from what I have gathered and I've not seen the process. Lucas Underwood: I'm not saying this is a hundred percent accurate, but from what I've seen of the process, they take a vehicle that is a new vehicle, they put it into a shop and they lay out the tools required for the job. They lay the part out in front of the technician and he changes that part three times. And after the third time it's changed. Lucas Underwood: They average that time out between each one. He gets a coffee break, gets to sit down for a few minutes rest, and then go back and do the job again. They average that time out. That doesn't count for pulling the car in. It doesn't count for test driving the car when you get done. It doesn't count for riding up the ticket and putting the documentation in. Lucas Underwood: And so I believe in my shop, if I'm gonna pay my guys based on some type of production based pay system, that depends on hours. It's only fair to add time for those things because the book doesn't account for that. And so that's what I shared with him. And I also personally believe that those labor rates, we should have variables based on the skill level associated with each one. Lucas Underwood: So I think he's right about that. See someone, when you hear that post, what do you think? Make Cecil Bullard: a couple of things. First of all, when Labor, eight times the way that you described it were decided and how they're decided even today, they don't account for all the things that the technician does. I call those things brown bananas. Cecil Bullard: Okay. I tell the banana story, people have heard it, but my grocery store's gonna buy 5,000 bananas today. Yeah. And this week. And they're gonna sell, they're not gonna sell 5,000. Some of those bananas are gonna get eaten. If you wa, if you've ever been through your grocery store and you see a banana peel up in the milk section in the back, somebody ate a banana as they were walking around. Cecil Bullard: And they basically ripped the grocery store off for a banana. And then some of the bananas are gonna go, they're gonna get brown. And people don't like brown bananas, so they don't buy 'em, and they end up getting thrown away or used in banana nut bread or whatever. But you have to pay for the brown bananas. Cecil Bullard: And it's something I don't think we understand in this industry is that it doesn't matter the inefficiencies in my business, the customer has to pay for all inefficiencies, all brown bananas, everything. So number one. It, the book was done a very specific way. And by the way, the manufacturers have always multiplied the book time by 1.5 to two. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we're now getting to about three, right? 1.3. And is that honest or dishonest? Let me cover that. Number one, I'm gonna do what it takes. That's legal, moral, and ethical to put 20% net in the bottom of my business. All right? And some of the things I'm gonna do, I'm not gonna be transparent. Cecil Bullard: This whole idea of transparency, are you gotta be shitting me, right? I'm sorry, I just said a word. I probably shouldn't, but, okay. Lucas Underwood: Sorry, Ken's not watching. It'll be fine. Cecil Bullard: Do you wanna be, do you want to go into a restaurant that has transparency? No, I've worked Lucas Underwood: on the other side of that. Cecil Bullard: Okay. And so let's just stop talking about transparency. Like we have to tell the customer everything and be just upfront about everything, number one, I don't want to I don't know. I think I'm a very moral, very I have a real good sense of morality and all of that. Even my company has like a three and a half page statement about all that, just to be clear that we don't make mistakes in that area. Cecil Bullard: But I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be completely a hundred percent transparent with you. Lucas, I'm sorry. I can't do that, right? Yeah, because I don't iage Lucas Underwood: want you to there know there's how many sausage is Cecil Bullard: made that occasionally there's rats in the back or cockroaches or, that I trimmed the green parts of the meat off and only kept the good parts of the meat so that you could have it right. Cecil Bullard: Whatever. I don't want you to know that. Okay. And number two, why would I ever talk to a client about the time on a job? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I, Cecil Bullard: other than I'm gonna need the car for two, two days. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Now are there some states that mandate it or are there some states that require Cecil Bullard: it? No, not that I know of at this point. Cecil Bullard: It doesn't matter. In California and certainly Utah I believe New York Washington State, these are not Utah, but the others are very much for the consumer and less for the business. Utah's more business oriented, less consumer oriented. But in those states, the law basically says that what you have to do is you have to let the customer know what you'll be doing and what the costs will be by before you do the, as they authorize the work. Cecil Bullard: They have to authorize that. So even in Utah like even my shop, they won't tell me the whole cost. And which drives me nuts. 'cause I think you should be really upfront with your client, look, we're gonna do these three things, and when you come in, the bill's gonna be $2,100. And so now how do we help you go about your day? Cecil Bullard: Do you need a car? Do you need a loaner car? Do can you, are you all right without one? What can I do for you? Assume close, redirect assume close redirect. And, but I'm never telling a customer about the time. I'm not saying, oh, by the way by the book, this is two hours and we're gonna charge you, $240. Cecil Bullard: Oh, wait a minute. That's $120 an hour. There's a shop down the street that says they're $95 an hour. There'll, there will always be somebody down the street. And playing games about it all too, which I hate. We've got a prominent guy. He's got his own podcast. He talks about free diagnostic all the time. Cecil Bullard: Except it ain't free. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: You want to talk about, excuse me, deceptive. Tell your clients they're getting free diagnostic and then just charge every other client an extra seven or eight or $9 an hour Yeah. To cover that expense Lucas Underwood: Or charge free, say you're doing free diagnostics. Re do a code scan and start changing parts. Lucas Underwood: Right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And by the way, that's not what's best for the client. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: right. Lucas Underwood: You're percent right. You're a hundred percent. And that's my thing too, is like my whole drive, everything is about serving the client at a high level. Yeah. And I'm with you. I don't share the time and some of the things that came up, like last night we were talking about another post that came up and there was a post where somebody had just searched on Google, how much time does it call for to replace this? Lucas Underwood: And it gave them the book time for a specific job. And I think this creates more of a divide. When you start getting just a book or below book, I think it creates more of a di divide between the technician and the shop. It creates more of a divide between the technicians and the industry and they're looking at it, especially if they're paid flat rate or some type of hybrid system, and they're saying, Hey dude, I'm getting taken advantage of here, Cecil Bullard: but if I have Lucas Underwood: a, this isn't right. Cecil Bullard: If I have an hourly rate and it's your hourly rate, it's 36 bucks an hour, $32 an hour, whatever it is, then if I ask you to take the trash out, you take the trash out. 'cause I'm paying you, right? I'm the manager, owner, whatever. Or if I ask you to clean your bay, or if I ask you to, I don't know, help with a car or something, you just do it. Cecil Bullard: Because you're already paid. If you're in a hybrid system, which is 60% of your pay comes as a, as an hourly rate, and 40% comes. Now when I'm asking you to do extra stuff, it's gonna hurt you financially. It's gonna affect you financially. And so that starts to create that divide. Yeah. So in my shop, when I charged 1.3 on the labor, I gave my tech credit for 1.3 because that's what I realistically felt that the tech should have with the paperwork and with the test drive and the verification. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, absolutely. And all that kind of stuff. And that helped me have good productivity, helped my techs feel good about themselves, which meant that they actually, Maslow we can't, if we don't feel like we're gonna pay our bills, if we don't feel like, if we feel like we're being cheated, et cetera, we can't think about how do I do that job better? Cecil Bullard: How you know God Exactly. Lucas Underwood: A Cecil Bullard: hundred Lucas Underwood: percent, Cecil Bullard: et cetera. The Lucas Underwood: base needs have to be met. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm a hundred percent with you now. We've got an incoming question. Kirti, I do wanna say this. We talk about in the industry I just give a price for the repair. I don't talk about labor charge or parts or anything like that. Lucas Underwood: I just talk about repairing the vehicle. Here's the price to repair the vehicle. Cecil Chad's got this question, says, thank you guys for doing this to help us out. I have a service advisor who is well intentioned, but doesn't sell with confidence. I've spent years a few years with formal training and I don't know how to get her to sell with more confidence. Lucas Underwood: Any suggestions? I'll tell you, Chad, from my perspective. I think it's a lot about them understanding why we're doing what we're doing. So many employees do not understand the financials of the business. And Cecil and I had a talk about my advisor just the other day, or my shop manager, about the importance of her understanding the numbers. Lucas Underwood: She's got to understand the numbers to see the value in what we do and to have confidence in what she's telling her clients. And so if she can't look at that and understand, hey, we're not making all of that, we're not keeping that money, yes, that's expensive, but if she can't see why it's expensive, that's a problem. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, what do you think? I, Cecil Bullard: I also think a good service advisor has a disconnect button. Cecil Bullard: It's not my car. I didn't, yeah, I didn't buy it. I didn't build it, I didn't drive it. I didn't break it. It's not my, it's not wallet. You can't sell in Lucas Underwood: their Cecil Bullard: wallet. It's not my wallet. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so I have to disconnect myself from how I feel about spending money on my car. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I hate, I would hate being the shop that Cecil takes his car to because I know what good customer service is, and I know when it's not. And I also know when someone's jing my chain. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And and I also know when a service advisor's not confident in what they're telling you they're doing. Cecil Bullard: I listened to phone calls. I just had a meeting with a service advisor a couple days ago, and I listened to two phone calls and I'm about ready to shoot myself. To have to listen to that. There were pauses, there was ums and ahs. There was the tech says blah, blah, blah. There was, very much a lack of confidence. Cecil Bullard: And you're not gonna sell that way. Lucas Underwood: No. Cecil Bullard: You have to disconnect your personal thoughts of what I might do on my car. And by the way, my car, you've seen mine, my car is perfect. It's gonna be taken care of. And it doesn't matter to me what it costs. It's gonna be what it is. Still. I feel so bad Lucas Underwood: for those Ford service advisors. Lucas Underwood: Something Cecil Bullard: Yeah. That have to deal with me. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I couldn't imagine Cecil Bullard: still. And I'm like, Hey you, you told me you were gonna call me at one. It's two 30. I haven't, I'm having a call from you. What the hell? That's it. And oh, I'm sorry, Cecil. But if you can't help them understand the whys and they can't put two and two together. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: This is probably also a person that's struggling with their own finances. With making money. They've never made any real money. They can't imagine Yeah. Paying $3,000 to have their car repaired because 3000 would, they wouldn't be able to pay their rent. They'd be kicked outta their apartment or their house, whatever. Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. And man you have to, I don't know. You, I would say you have to have a disconnect button that you say, it's not my $3,000. It's not my, it's not my concern. I had a client recently say, Hey Cece, you've talked about financing that every shop should probably have some financing. Cecil Bullard: So I've looked into all the financing. It's 24 to 30%. I said, yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate that people put themselves in a position where they have to spend 24% to finance the repairs on their car, but it's not my fault. Yeah. I just, need to be able to take care of their car. Lucas Underwood: I, I had an experience years ago and I had an advisor here that was very much in the same boat. Lucas Underwood: And I'll never forget, I had an older gentleman that came in and when he came in, I was talking to him and I, the advisor's standing there and he's in his seventies, he's retired. And I said, Hey, can you tell him how it is that you can afford the repairs on your vehicle? And he said son, he said, my dad told me when I was very young, he said, the minute that you can have an IRA and you can start putting money in that IRAI want you to put money in it, I never want you to stop. Lucas Underwood: And he said, so I started at $60, then I went to a hundred dollars, and then I went to $200 and I maxed it out. And he said, I got to the point, I maxed that out. And he said, I stopped putting money in it when I was 60 some years old. And he said, now I've got six and a half million dollars in the bank. And he said, look, I'm just telling you that, you can live like this as long as you're smart with your money. Lucas Underwood: The. Folks that are on that front counter, if they've not been smart with their money, it impacts their perspective. They can't see clearly if they're not making enough money they can't see clearly. And the other thing, I'll tell you, I learned this a long time ago. Send your service advisors to another shop and let them buy a service at another shop and see what that experience is like. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. ' Lucas Underwood: cause you're gonna find out what your value is real quick. Cecil Bullard: I like to go to a quick lube like a Jiffy Lube once a year, just, and then I take it to the shop and have the oil changed and checked and all that, but I like to go have Lucas Underwood: plugs, not sideways. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I like to go have the experience because it helps me understand the difference of, yeah. Cecil Bullard: What a real experience is and what it isn't. I, let me add on this. This particular service advisor if they understand the numbers and I've gone through why the shop needs to make 20% and how that's really not 20% when it's all said and done. 'cause I have to pay taxes and I have to invest in the company in order to make sure everybody gets what they need. Cecil Bullard: And I have to provide medical and dental and 4 0 1 ks Yeah. And all that kind of stuff today in this. And at the same time, we have all of these techs bitching about not getting paid enough, which I agree with him a hundred percent. And I still have a service advisor that cannot or will not sell with confidence. Cecil Bullard: I've got a problem. Yeah. I've got a real problem and probably after two years it's not gonna change. Yeah. And maybe there's another, maybe the job of CSI, where it's like making phone calls and doing some marketing and tracking some numbers for me is a great job for that person. Cecil Bullard: But selling at the service counter, one of the toughest jobs I've had in my entire life Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Is not for everybody. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, you're exactly right. And I'm gonna tell you, I know this is a little bit off topic, but I've done it with technicians and I've done it with service advisors and I've tried and tried to make it work. Lucas Underwood: And I've got people who really dislike me because Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I let it go for too long and it's I wanna be a technician. I'm a good technician. I'm gonna be a technician. No, you're not. Cecil Bullard: But you also have to think, you have to think about this too. Frankly, I'm not responsible for only one person. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: When I own the shop, I'm responsible for everybody that works for me and their families. And if I have one person, that was a Lucas Underwood: hard one for me. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, that was a hard, I have one. If I have one person that's screwing it up, whether that's my service advisor or a tech or I don't know, whoever gets up to me to take care of that, because it's not fair to everybody else. Cecil Bullard: If my service advisor can't sell with confidence and I'm gonna have a lower average repair order, I'm gonna have lower productivity, which means I can't pay my tax as much as I should. Probably can't pay my service advisor as much as I should, and I'm not gonna take home the money that I should. So my family's gonna be affected. Cecil Bullard: And and it is, it's not right. Lucas Underwood: What the problem is that we always get attached to those people and we believe. They're also attached to us and feel the same type of loyalty we feel to them. And I think the manager situation I went through last year is a perfect example of that. Lucas Underwood: I held on too long, we talked about it, we went over it over and over again. You told me from the word go, I don't know if this is the right person then, Aaron told me, I don't know if this is the right person. I think there are a Cecil Bullard: couple of times where I told you we need to get rid of this person. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Period. Oh yeah. And I knew And you knew. I knew. And I was telling you I knew. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: But I'm still paying the effects of that right now. I, we just had January and February. So this big ice storm comes through. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Terrible. Lucas Underwood: And 'cause we're up in the mountains, it was like four inches of sleet and then it rained on it, and then it froze. Lucas Underwood: Solid. They were taking equipment, trying to dig the ice up and you can't get the ice up. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so it's finally melting now and cars are flooding in the shop, but we went through four weeks where cars could not get here. They couldn't get out. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so like it completely zonked the shop of all of its money. Cecil Bullard: So here's another reason to charge what you need to, because not only do I, I need three months worth of operating capital in the bank. Lucas Underwood: But here's Cecil Bullard: the thing. If I wanna have a safe, secure business, I need three months worth of operating capital in the bank. And if I don't charge enough, I can't have that. Lucas Underwood: That's where I'm going with this, is that, that the reason I didn't have it is because I kept somebody that was not the right fit for the shop. Yeah. And it zonked the funds back last year because they kept making bad decisions. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so at the end of the day. I go and I terminate that person. Lucas Underwood: And you know what they did? I said, dude, I don't really care. It's fine. Like, why are you upset? Why are you bothered by this? Yeah. It's just a, it's just business. I don't care. Just a job. Cecil Bullard: Whatever job. Who cares? Lucas Underwood: And I'm over here dude, I've been over here like suffering and beating myself up for months. Lucas Underwood: This, and you're telling me you don't care Cecil Bullard: for Lucas Underwood: months? Yeah. And so we gotta be careful where we show that loyalty to and, Cecil Bullard: I think, I think that we need to be loyal. I always say I'm willing to do anything for my employees except their job. I, as long as you're doing your job and I need to define what that is and the results I want, and do that well, yeah. Cecil Bullard: Then I'm as loyal as anybody could be. I'll take money outta my pocket. To help you out. Yeah. And I know you will, and I know most owners that I know will do that. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But if you're not doing your job, if you're not being loyal to me and to the company. I just had a whole thing about company men and company people. Cecil Bullard: When you have a manager that you pay a salary to and a decent salary, that person needs to be on the side of the company. And by the way I would say the same thing with the service advisor. If we've set our prices the way we've set them, whether and whether or not we're we raised our labor rate 30%, or we put a 1.3 on our labor, yeah. Cecil Bullard: Times, whichever, however we did it, and the price is the price, then the person that's a loyal person to the company has no problem telling the customer that's the price. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Otherwise, you're not loyal to the company. You're loyal to whatever your fears, your whatever and what can the client do to you? Cecil Bullard: That's the other thing. I've never been hurt by any client that I didn't allow them to hurt me. Yeah. So you at the service counter, you can't hurt me. You you can't. And. Do I care? Yeah. I kind of care. I want you to buy, I want you to be happy. I want you to be our client, but if you're not, I'm done. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I don't have any more time or energy for that because the 85% of the people that want to bring their car to my shop, I need it for them. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: right. Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. You're exactly right. And man, I'm telling you, it's just like these service advisors who go in and adjust the numbers, and it's dude I gave you a threshold. Lucas Underwood: I gave you the numbers. You can't just keep lowering every job. Cecil Bullard: I'll Yeah, I'll choke you out. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I have to make ano I we have to make a certain, some points here. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: All right. Now in 1980, my shop was $70 an hour. Palm Springs, California. Yeah. And I don't know what the average was in 1980, but it was probably close to that. Cecil Bullard: And I took that $70 an hour and I raised it by 3%. Up to the year 20 25, 20 26. Right now, there would not be a shop in the United States under $264 an hour. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. If you had done that, just Cecil Bullard: followed inflation. If you'd just done it 3%, which is just normal inflation. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Forget the fact that in 1980 I didn't have half the regulations, my insurance costs a lot less my, all kinds of things. Cecil Bullard: Even HR stuff. I never worried about being sued until a few years ago. And now it's like I can't, we had a guy that we let go white guy over 55. By the way, that's a protected class. I'm not supposed to terminate that person. It's, things have changed so dramatically and there's so much liability now that we didn't have in 1980. Cecil Bullard: I can't even, Ima, at 2 64, it's. Still not enough. And I know what people are gonna say, you're half the people out there are gonna go wait a minute. See? So there's a guy in my neighborhood that is still at $65 an hour. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. So what, Cecil Bullard: right? Let him be 65. Let him take all the crap and all the cheap customers, and all the people that, that wanna buy, I don't know, Walmart parts or white labeled crap parts and put 'em on their car and Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And let 'em be that. So what should we be? I believe it or not, I have a shop right now, it's about $320 an hour and I'm really happy about that. But my, our average shop in the United States for the Institute probably right now is Pushin in the one eighties, one nineties. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Now the last, Lucas Underwood: and we just raised mine again. Lucas Underwood: We just came up a little bit more. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And the last survey that was done, I think it, it was either tech metric or it was parts the parts guys. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, parts Cecil Bullard: two. The average was like 1 26. In the United States. So how do you pay a tech a, a master tech who's gotta buy tools and who, who's gonna bust their knuckles and work their butt off? Cecil Bullard: How do you pay them 30 bucks an hour? Cecil Bullard: And have a happy master tech and charge 126 and still make the profit that you need. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And by the way, 26, Lucas Underwood: I tell people all the time that there has to be money, right? Yeah. I have these meetings with these techs and I'm like, Hey. And I do the same thing with my guys. Lucas Underwood: Hey, Cecil Bullard: yeah, Lucas Underwood: I get that you wanna make more money, but we have to have production. There has to be production there. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We've Lucas Underwood: got another question coming in. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Production's a thing that kills us in our, Lucas Underwood: yeah. Ab it is in our profitability. It absolutely is. Yeah. Oh, very cool. I know this bunch right here. Lucas Underwood: Good afternoon guys. If most other shops in our areas charge little to no diagnostic fees, we charge higher than our labor rate. How can we help clients understand the value of testing? Oh, buddy. I just tell 'em like, Hey, go over there. They can do the testing and they can fix it, and when they don't fix it, you can bring it to me and I'll get it right for you. Lucas Underwood: Especially on the diesels. I have no problem with that. Cecil, the way I've always done this is I have always been very transparent about it. I know you don't necessarily like the word transparent, but I've always explained to them this is the most advanced part of our job, and in this town we're known for doing the most advanced testing. Lucas Underwood: Of anybody up here. We have lots of very high-end equipment that allows us to do this. Have lots of subscriptions, lots of OE tools, and we have the equipment that the manufacturer has to work on your vehicle here in shop. And so we have very highly trained staff. Now, what I'm gonna explain to you is that a lot of these shops aren't actually doing what you think they are. Lucas Underwood: They'll say that they're doing diagnostics, but really what they're doing is a code scan. And a code scan is simply that code's like a zip code. You put that on an envelope, drop it in the mailbox. It might get it to the right town, but it's not gonna get it to your door. It just gives us an area that the problem exists in. Lucas Underwood: And so a lot of shops take that and they use that to try and sell additional parts. We don't do that here and that's why I charge you more for testing so I can be upfront and clear with you. And that way we don't go broke trying to figure out what's wrong with your car. We actually get to the bottom of what's wrong with your car. Lucas Underwood: And so I think a transparent conversation that sense is what's worked best for us. What about you, Cecil? What do you think? Cecil Bullard: They're moving my camera around. Lucas Underwood: I know, right? I'm Cecil Bullard: busy Lucas Underwood: now. Cecil Bullard: So the I have a script that I have used for years and years, lucas, the least expensive way to fix a vehicle and take care of a vehicle is to have a technician that knows and understands that vehicle. Cecil Bullard: Do a proper diagnostic. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So that we know what's wrong and we can make intelligent decisions about that service or repair, and so that we don't put parts and do things on the car that aren't necessary. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: It will save the average customer thousands and thousands of dollars over the life of their vehicle if they have a proper diagnostic done. Cecil Bullard: And I've had people go what if it is the, thermostat. If it is the thermostat as your cousin told you, then at the very least we will know. Not only that we verified that was the problem, but we'll also know if that was caused by something else. And we'll know that when we fix the thermostat that the car will be in, the vehicle will be in great shape. Lucas Underwood: Do you know how to shut 'em down? You know how to stop 'em dead in their tracks? No. You say, Hey, listen, I've got this. I've got this thing that I do in this situation. We can do it together if you'd like. And they say, what? And I say, Hey, call 'em up. Put 'em on speaker phone and let's ask them if it doesn't fix the car Cecil Bullard: now. Lucas Underwood: Are they going to pay you back for the repair or make the proper repair if it doesn't fix it? Because I am. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And they say, huh? I said, yeah, just give 'em a call and ask Hey, if that's not the correct diagnosis, are they gonna give you your money back for the parts? Are they gonna pay for the labor? Cecil Bullard: I would love it if it doesn't fix the Lucas Underwood: car. Cecil Bullard: If the, from the pet boys in the auto zones. If the if, it was like, oh, so I'm gonna buy this part. I'm gonna take it to a shop, or I'm gonna tell the shop that you coded my car and you told me. And if that, if I take it to the shop and they do this work and it doesn't fix it, are you gonna pay my bill? Cecil Bullard: Right. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. You gonna, Cecil Bullard: the, Lucas Underwood: oh they, you wanna see that, you wanna see 'em scramble a little bit and I've got shops around me who brag about how cheap they are and they brag about all this stuff. And one of the things that I've dealt with over all these years, being in the industry and doing the podcast and talking to all these people is this extreme fear. Lucas Underwood: Being more expensive than somebody else. And I tell 'em that it's like they couldn't imagine, oh my gosh, I charge more than someone else. And I ask 'em, I'm like, Hey, let's just be really transparent about this. Did you buy the cheapest TV in Walmart? Because they still sell a 14 inch black and white tv. Lucas Underwood: And they said, no, I wouldn't want that. Okay. Did you buy the cheapest car? No. Did you buy the cheapest pair shoes? The could the you Cecil Bullard: had, yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. No, we don't. We don't. That's not how we make decisions. It's not just about price. It's about value. And I think what shops miss is that they don't see their own value. Lucas Underwood: They don't dig into their own value and understand it. They've never been to another shop to experience it because they've been working on their own stuff. Cecil Bullard: This is and there's also this false expectation with your technicians that, the book time is two hours and I'm gonna charge two hours. Cecil Bullard: 'cause the book time must be the law. That's what the other shop's gonna do. They're gonna look at the book time. And so I'm comparing myself, like I wanna be comparative to them price wise and then we expect our technicians to get it done in 1.5 so that we can actually make a living. Or if we're gonna take time off of a job, we take it off in the tech doesn't get the time or the credit for the time, even though it should be the time. Cecil Bullard: There's no wonder that we're having such a conversation with the techs that is not a good conversation. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: because we're, we want to be the cheapest guy in town who wants to be the cheapest guy in town. As you were talking, I'm thinking to myself, the shops that, that I've had. I probably work with 3000 shops if I do the math. Cecil Bullard: In my career I've owned five total. I've ran another six or seven, but I've actually worked with, as a coach and a consultant about 3000. And do you know that the shops that are the most consistent, the shops that are the most profitable, the shops that have the highest customer satisfaction ratings Yep. Cecil Bullard: Are also the most expensive shops for sure. They're not the cheapest shops. And so how do you put that together in your brain and say, I still want to be the cheapest guy in town. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It doesn't listen my parents I think you've been here, have you been to the shop before? Have you ever been Cecil Bullard: here? Cecil Bullard: I have never been to the shop, no. Lucas Underwood: Okay. So I've been closed. Where the shop, right? Where the shop's at? We used to have these rental cabins and there were nine of them. And then for years, right? I was young when we put 'em in. I was 15, 16 years old, maybe 17 years old when we put these cabins in. And for years my parents ran them for 99 a night. Lucas Underwood: Now, these were log cabins, actual log cabins, and they had a one bedroom. They had like a living room and a bathroom, and then they had a full kitchen, right? Really nice little cabins. And they were set up at an angle, and yeah, they were close to each other. But motel rooms up here were going for 2 65 a night. Cecil Bullard: And so why were your cabins like 300 a night? Creates Lucas Underwood: value Cecil Bullard: too. Lucas Underwood: And so the occupancy rate stayed in the twenties, thirties and forties. Now, my parents they loved people, right? Like they loved giving back. They loved taking care of people. The majority of what they did was to be good to people. Lucas Underwood: And that was their reward. It wasn't the profit. And so I respect what they did. I'm not saying anything bad, but we raised the rates. Occupancy went up. Yep. And so we were asking people questions. We were saying, Hey, you said you've been up here for all these years. Why haven't you stayed here before? Lucas Underwood: And they said, we thought something was wrong with them. Too cheap. They were way too cheap. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: I've had a couple people come out and say, Hey you told me to raise my rates and it put me out of business. Let me tell you something. If you don't bring the value, if you are not providing a good service, if you're not fixing the car, if you're not calling them back, if you're not taking care of them, yeah. Lucas Underwood: You probably don't wanna raise your rates that high because I would, you're selling exactly what you're worth. So be careful. If you're not bringing value, Cecil Bullard: I would almost guarantee you, I don't know I might put money on it, that any shop today could raise their rates by. $15, 20 bucks an hour, Lucas Underwood: nobody even Cecil Bullard: know. Cecil Bullard: And nobody would even know. Not one customer. The only people that would be nervous about it is whoever's talking to your clients. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And you know why? Because over the last 25 years, I've seen shop after shop go up sometimes much more than I thought. I had a shop go like 56 bucks. I was at a diesel thing thoroughbred diesel show, Lucas Underwood: strive to th or strive to. Cecil Bullard: And one of our clients, yeah. And one of our clients was there. Yeah. And I said do I have any clients in the audience? Because I don't always know every client we have now. 'cause I don't work with everybody. And guy stood up young young young guy, and I said what was your lab rate when you came to the institute and how long have you, and he said, been with the institute about a year from the last diesel show. Cecil Bullard: And he said, my liberate was, I think $93, $92 an hour. And I said, okay. And what is your lib rate today? He said, we're $197 an hour. He'd gone up a hundred bucks in a year. Now, by the way, the next question was, how many clients did you lose? He said probably a couple, but he said, but the people we lost were the people that we could never make any money off of. Cecil Bullard: They always give us trouble, never happy, Lucas Underwood: no matter what Cecil Bullard: you did. They were the ones we didn't want. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And you're like, you think about that, let's say they had three technicians and they were 70% productive. That's 21 hours, that's okay. Let's say 18 hours a day times a hundred dollars, right? Cecil Bullard: Yep. Times X many days. And that's profit coming in and, okay, so maybe I'm not greedy about money, but wouldn't it be nice to give my people a 20% raise? Yeah. And make sure I had three months worth operating capital in the bank. And so the weather wouldn't affect me Lucas Underwood: Here. Here's the thing is it's just like this. Lucas Underwood: I, I told a good friend of mine, Tobin and Tobin and I have been friends for years, and I told Tobin a while back when we met, I said, you have got to get these rates up. $65 an hour is not gonna cut it. I promise. I see your rent, I see your financials. I know what you're doing. I've been there like, you've gotta get the rate up. Lucas Underwood: And he looked at me, we were at Outback in blowing rock, North Carolina, and he said, Lucas, if I raise my rates, everybody's gonna leave. And I said, Tobin, it ain't gonna matter 'cause you're gonna be outta business anyway. If you don't, I said, you're either gonna go outta business because you didn't raise your rates, or you're gonna go outta business because you lost your clients, or you're gonna find out this is gonna work. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And so today, we talked to him the other day and he said, man, he said, if you hadn't told me that, he said, I'd been outta business. And I said, look, if somebody hadn't told me that I'd be outta business. Right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It's, I can't. And that's what this group, and that's what the institute, and that's what this podcast is all about, is hey, there's a lot of people out here that don't know this, and they're walking in fear because they don't know any better. Lucas Underwood: And so we're about bringing the knowledge. Cecil Bullard: Do you know how many shops? I would tell you that more than half the shops that we have worked with. So more than more than 1500 shops. If they had not raised their rates, if they had not fixed their parts margins, put a matrix in place. If they had not, worked on their systems and processes, they wouldn't be here today. Cecil Bullard: 1500 shops, right? Yeah. Would not be here today because they, I can't tell you how many guys I beat 'em and they come up and they gimme a hug or they, shake my hand and they're like, cec. Oh my God, you saved my life. You saved my company. Yeah, you saved my family, blah, blah, blah. Cecil Bullard: And it's very rewarding to have that and to do that. But man, what about the other? Two, the ones we've not reached yet, two shops out there, which we just can't seem to reach. Lucas Underwood: Yep. All Cecil Bullard: we got. Our next question, do you think we need to do? Okay, go ahead, get the next question. Lucas Underwood: All right. What is your opinion on veteran military or senior citizen discounts? Lucas Underwood: Now look, I'm gonna tell you something. Now that I'm in the shop, or not in the shop as much, it doesn't happen as much. But when I was in the shop, you know what I did? I grabbed that, their wallet, and I took the money outta that wallet and I walked around the front counter and I pulled that cash outta my wallet and I laid down and paid what I wanted to give them for a discount right there on the front counter. Lucas Underwood: And you wanna talk about making an impact, sir, I appreciate your service and what you did for our country. You provided me the opportunity to be here and do what I do. Thank you. Now, not only does it make an impact with them, but it makes an impact with you because I have seen so many shops discount themselves to poverty. Lucas Underwood: Literal poverty. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I had I had a shop, a new shop probably two months ago, come on that I'm coaching and they made about $1,200 in that month. They discounted over 12,000. Okay. And you're going what was your discount? We have a AAA discount. We have a senior discount. We have a military veteran discount. Cecil Bullard: And so literally, and we have crap rates. And by the way, so we weren't making anything anyway. And so if you want to, corporates, corporations, big corporations understand this. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Small business does not. When you walk into Walmart and there's a discount item and you're gonna save 20 bucks on that thing, they're getting in your wallet somewhere to make up for that 20 bucks. Cecil Bullard: You, period. Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. Cecil Bullard: Period. Because if they don't make the profit they need to then their stockholders sell the stock, the stocks worth nothing, and the company goes bankrupt and we don't Yeah, Lucas Underwood: they got that product on a discount they got. Yeah. There was somewhere they still made their margins. Lucas Underwood: Right. Cecil Bullard: So if you routinely want to give away 10% to say veterans or old people, and by the way, I'm now in that, I get that, those discounts. Lucas Underwood: See, so you know that 20 years ago you got into that category, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. Shut up. So anyway yeah, scissor used to do it at 55 and I used to like, there was a scissor. Cecil Bullard: Here it is gone. I wonder why. But I used to like Sizzler and they would be, look at my hair and I've been white for I don't know, 30 years now. Yeah. They would look at my hair and they'd go, oh, we're gonna give you the senior discount. I was probably 42 at the time. If you're gonna discount 10%, you have to raise your rates by more than 10% because you're talking about parts and labor that I'm discounting. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I'm not just discounting the labor. So I can't raise my labor rate 10% and go, okay, that's good for a 10% discount. 'cause the parts, I'm actually discounting the parts also. Yeah. So I probably have to go up around 20% on my labor rate in order to make up for the parts and the, or at least probably. Cecil Bullard: 18% on my labor rate and to make up for the parts if I'm gonna give 10% discounts away. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And you absolutely have to put stock in that discount. You can't just drop that money and say I just took it off the repair order need. I Cecil Bullard: just took it off my Lucas Underwood: wallet. You need way to track it. Cecil Bullard: Right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I just took it outta my wallet. Cecil Bullard: And that's the killer too, is it's, Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: You're better off. I'm, I might've been the one that told you this, but go down to the bank and get some 20 fresh, crisp $20 bills and when you're ready to discount, whoop out a couple twenties, hand it over to the customer, say, I wanna help you today. 'Cause you're old or because you're a veteran, or because it's just one of those days. Cecil Bullard: And watch those $20 bills disappear. And then tell me how often you're gonna do that. Lucas Underwood: My buddy John that runs a diesel shop down in Morganton, North Carolina, he and I were talking a while back and I said, I was explaining this process to him and he said, but Lucas, if I do that, I won't have any money. Lucas Underwood: And I said, that's my point because you don't have any money now, but you're giving it away. Yeah. So how do you feel okay about this Cecil Bullard: now? So I Lucas Underwood: won't be able to pay my bills Cecil Bullard: in our shop. We, when we added features, we added price. So when we gave loaner cars out, we went up four bucks an hour. When we watched every car, we went up $4 an hour. Cecil Bullard: We calculated our costs, we doubled what that was gonna be. We raised our labor rates. Yeah. And in that shop we we made a profit. And when we made a profit, we said to ourselves, we want give back. So we set aside a budget, $30,000 a year goes to and we went down to one of the local churches that Pat talked to the pastor, and we said, we know you have people in your community that need help. Cecil Bullard: We are willing to help. We'll either you pay for the parts and we'll do the labor up to $30,000 a year or, yeah. We'll pay for both up to 30,000 until the money's gone. Yeah. And the pastor wanted to pay for the parts and we took care of the labor, but we kept track of it. And when we were done with 30 grand, we were done. Cecil Bullard: 'cause that's what we set aside based on the profit that we were making. The thing about it is people want to give and give. We all do. I think we're all, I think in general, humanity wants to give, they want to take care of people, they want to feel good about their relationships. Cecil Bullard: And the problem is you can't give what you don't have. Yeah. So if I don't have any empathy, sympathy, because I'm just worn out, and then I can't give, if I don't have any time because I'm working 90 hours a week, I can't, not only can I not give to my people at church, but I can't give to my own family. Cecil Bullard: Right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And if there's no money, I can't give to my clients, I can't give to my family, I can't give to anybody. Lucas Underwood: It can be addictive. It can be a crutch. Yeah. And so I see so many people use it as a crutch. They get a, they get afraid and they begin, like they start discounting to make that client happy. Lucas Underwood: The client gets used to saying, Hey, can I get a discount? Next thing you know, you've built a pattern and it's really hard to break that pattern. I just don't believe in doing discounts. Yeah. Yeah. So my advice would be, would just pay for repair, filing? Cecil Bullard: No, no discounts. Just, and I never discounted and I don't discount today. Cecil Bullard: Don't get me wrong. We do some stuff here at the institute, but it's not me. It's the younger people who are like, oh, we're gonna do this Ferd and we're gonna give a timeframe. Thanks St. Stu. Lucas Underwood: Man. How many times have I told you about that stew guy? You gotta Cecil Bullard: watch. Shoot 'em both, both him and Kent at the same time. Lucas Underwood: Now look I am doing a little bit of discounts, but I'm also working really hard to try and get the car count up for this shot. And Cecil Bullard: if a calculated discounts too. Yeah. If they're calculated, if I know that I'm making the money somewhere else, yeah. If I know that I'm gonna have a certain average of ator and I can make that up, then I'm ha I'm okay with that. Lucas Underwood: But hey, this Cecil Bullard: next question, once you start the pattern, it's the pattern. Lucas Underwood: It, yeah. It's hard to break that pattern, buddy. Yeah. It's hard to break that pattern. The next question is, what are some marketing strategies for slower times? We're already doing Google Ads website, et cetera. Now listen, I can tell you about slow times. Lucas Underwood: This shop that typically sees nine to 12 cars a day for the three or four weeks after this storm saw like one car a week. Yeah. And like we've got a 8 73 Bobcat that we push the parking lot with sometimes. Cecil I backed it out of the shop the other day and I got out of the bobcat and I was getting ready to go in and grab myself a drink and all this stuff, and I start to step off the machine and it felt like it moved funny. Lucas Underwood: So I put my hand on the machine and I could take this 13,000 pound machine and push it around the parking lot with my hands with no ice force at all on it. Said, I think I'm gonna get back in the machine before it slides off and it's something, right? Yeah. It was so slick. And we shouldn't have wanted our clients to be out the mistake that we made, I'm gonna tell you something about this because this is important to the slow day strategy. Lucas Underwood: The mistake we made is that right before the holidays, the staff didn't want to disappoint any clients. And so what they did was, is they began to back us down as far as reserves go. Yeah. They were trying to get everything finished to make everybody happy, so they didn't have their car sitting here over a holiday, and it killed our reserves. Lucas Underwood: And so then when it did slow down. We didn't have any reserve stuff to work on and it impacted we continually load the lot up and keep things here. And even if it means some people and like we're listening to them, we're talking to them. There's a great scene in the show, the Bear on fx, and in it, it's a lady and she's organizing the kitchen and it's this really fine dining restaurant. Lucas Underwood: And she said, this table likes to eat slow and they're in no hurry. This table will fuss if it's slow. We need to hurry this, rush this slow this, take this to this table, do this with this table. If you don't have someone managing your workflow in a way that they can understand what's coming in and going out and the customer expectations and then using those expectations to the shop's advantage, you're missing out because that's where true revenue and auto repair comes from. Lucas Underwood: And so I'm gonna tell you right now i's one thing you can do when you get slow and you need cars right now. And that's called pick up the phone and start calling 'em. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: Plain and simple. Yep. That's the one thing that will work. Cecil Bullard: Let me talk about two or three strategies here. Number one, when you're busy, don't stop marketing. Cecil Bullard: Yes. Don't slow it down. Nothing. Keep, okay, keep my budget's tight. See? So Lucas Underwood: I gotta cut all my marketing out. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Number two, are you booking the customer's next appointment? You wanna create consistency in your business. Book the next appointment. And you know what, some people are gonna say no, some people aren't gonna show up. Cecil Bullard: But what if you could get three or four cards booked out every day for the next six months that would actually show up? What would that do for your consistency of car count? Lucas Underwood: It's back to the Tobin thing, right? I asked him, yeah. Hey would you rather just go outta business? Lucas Underwood: Would you rather not be able to pay your bills than ask them or would you rather be afraid of asking them? Would you? Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And by the way, don't ask 'em, just tell 'em they have an appointment. It you're the person that's supposed to be taking care of their car. Tell them how they're gonna take care of their car. Cecil Bullard: It's a strategy, right? And then do you have a referral program? Are you asking for referrals? Are you doing, is this a part of your everyday life? Does every customer that walks in your door get asked for a referral? Yeah. There, there's just these little things and then there's the 20 calls process, what you're talking about. Cecil Bullard: Get on people that, that didn't show up for their appointment. Get on the phone. People that had work that didn't do that work get on the phone. I call it 20 calls. 'cause in my shop we were slow. We, my service advisors made 20 phone calls. Were three appointments. When they made three appointments, they have to make no more phone calls. Cecil Bullard: All done. Lucas Underwood: Here's the thing is I I will use chat GPT here and there for fun stuff and I don't like, I don't want my brain to turn to mush, so I still try to use my brain, still try to be on Cecil Bullard: top of it. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. But I was dropping things in chat GBTA while back, not at this recent slowdown, but the one before it where it just lightened up a little bit. Lucas Underwood: And so I was putting some data into chat GPT because I have found that it sees patterns that I miss. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's obvious patterns. And it's very much like hiring the institute to coach you in your business because you see things and your coaches see things from a different perspective. Lucas Underwood: And so it, it's easier for you to catch something because you're not just used to it. That's not just the way it's been. Yeah. And so I put our customer data into chat, GPT, and it brought up this really interesting fact and it said, I. If you acquired or if you reignited, or I can't remember the word it used basically shook up Cecil Bullard: 10% or Lucas Underwood: whatever. Lucas Underwood: It's the client base from six to 18 months. Yeah. The ones that have not been here in six to 18 months, if you shook up 5% of them, you would have two months of work. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, huh, I hadn't thought about it like that. So customer, guess what? We're gonna make some telephone calls. Cecil Bullard: Customer retention management Lucas Underwood: yeah, Cecil Bullard: booking appointments, 20 calls, phone calls. There, there are multiple strategies to ramp up as fast as I can ramp up. But Cecil Bullard: Yeah, don't stop your marketing ever. Lucas Underwood: Now, something else, and I'm sure that you know this, but something else that I have learned, me, I use shop wear and I have got the analytics and shop wear laid out really well. Lucas Underwood: I and Cecil, I take my hours per RO and I take my revenue and I've got a little bit of an algorithm that I've built in Excel and I use that and I say, okay, if I can take three jobs a day, three and a half hours per ro, how many jobs do I have? If this is the number, my average repair order's about 1100 bucks, what's my car count be, need to be, exactly what does my car count need to be and where am I? Lucas Underwood: How many days of work do I have on what's sitting in the shop right now? And how many do I have coming in Cecil Bullard: on Lucas Underwood: appointments, knowing that some of those may not show, knowing that some of those may not turn into those bigger tickets Cecil Bullard: we're Lucas Underwood: using. Cecil Bullard: But if you're keeping track of the data, you can actually anticipate a Cecil Bullard: 12% loss or whatever. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Whatever Cecil Bullard: that loss is. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And see that's what we do is we're tracking the averages and so we're paying attention to that. Yeah. Now, my algorithm, the way I've got it built out is, Hey, listen, if I get to sub seven days of work, you're getting on the telephone and you're making telephone calls. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: If I get, Cecil Bullard: yeah. It's a red light. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. If I get to, 14 days, we're backing out a little bit, trying to give ourselves some breathing room, but I'm bouncing the shop based on the data that's available. Yeah. So many people try to run their shops based off of what's in here and up here they base it on emotion. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. You Cecil Bullard: stop, there's facts, there's information. Yeah. You have to stop. That's that. Somebody asked me the other day, said, Cecil. If you only had, if it was one thing, what's the one thing that you gotta tell people? Run your shop like a business. Understand the numbers. Yeah. And what they're telling you. Cecil Bullard: You do that and you'll make so much. Oh, I'm much money. You'll have so much more consistency, et cetera. The problem you have in the industry is we have a lot of great guys. They're wonderful techs, et cetera. Men and women. They're just not great business people. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Lucas Underwood: Go ahead. Cecil Bullard: When I started a business I wasn't a great business person, but I got news for you, man. Cecil Bullard: I learned, I got mentors, I hired people, I did whatever it took to get good at this business. I want to be the best at this business of anybody. And I continue to learn today because to me, that's everything's Lucas Underwood: Cecil. I'm not afraid to tell the story of what happened with the family business. Like it was not ran like a business. Lucas Underwood: The business was turned over to another family member and because it wasn't ran like a business, the accountant really wasn't watching it. The bookkeeper was stealing money. The person who was running the business was stealing money. The person who was working in the business was stealing money. We're talking about $3 million. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Millions. Lucas Underwood: We're talking about millions of dollars Cecil Bullard: I have seen and all of this shop that the same really millions of dollars over time going away. Lucas Underwood: And all of this happened when my father was taking care of my terminally ill mother and had no bandwidth to take care of Cecil Bullard: attention was away. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And here's the thing about it is if systems had been in place and it had been ran like a business before that this wouldn't have happened, Cecil Bullard: flags would've came up and people would've attention would've been drawn. Lucas Underwood: And to all the shop owners in this room listening and to all the folks who come back and listen later. Lucas Underwood: My dad didn't think that my mom was gonna get cancer. My dad didn't think that he was gonna be away from the business. My dad didn't think those people would steal from him because they were some of his closest allies. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yet they did Cecil Bullard: well. And I don't think you, I don't think you can live your life going, oh my God, my wife might get cancer. Cecil Bullard: Of Lucas Underwood: course you Cecil Bullard: can. Or man, everybody around me is gonna steal from me if I'm not paying attention. But I think you, you live your life. I understand the business. I understand this exactly as well as it can be. Understood. Exactly. So if my wife gets cancer or if someone starts hundred percent from me, that I'm very aware of that and I can take care of that very quickly. Lucas Underwood: And that is exactly what I'm trying to say, seasonal to the T, is that if it had been ran like a business all along. Then it wouldn't have been a scramble to try and figure it out. He didn't have the bandwidth to run it at a, as a business when that happened. He didn't have the bandwidth to babysit it Cecil Bullard: and fix and he didn't set it up that way because he didn't know how to set it up that way. Cecil Bullard: Or he probably would have the thing now. Absolutely. Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: There. There are so many resources. The Yeah we're announcing a new learning thing. Auto Academy. It's gonna be fantastic. Yeah. But even our YouTube, your YouTube, there's so many resources. If you really want to know the numbers, I've done multiple things about the numbers of the business. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I know you have two and we've done it together and Yes. They're just out there. Just take some time to dig up that stuff. Yeah. And pay attention. Exactly. Lucas Underwood: And look, Cecil Bullard: it can be the difference between retiring with. $3,500 a month from your social security and nothing else, or retiring with six and a half million dollars in the bank and $3,500 a month from your social security. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, you're exactly right. You're exactly right. And here's the thing and I think this is where so many shop owners miss it. Cecil, I loved pulling out an oscilloscope and using my deductive reasoning skills. To work on a car. It was my favorite thing. Yep. Yeah, Cecil Bullard: it's fantastic. Lucas Underwood: And to see that problem be solved and to make it through it and it work and the customer's happy and the car runs like it's supposed to, I fell in love with that process. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: And it took me years to fall in love with the same process of learning what screw to adjust and what number and what KPI to check and how to do it to make the business do that too. Lucas Underwood: You can fall in love with the management of your business the same way you fell in love with working on the car or doing the diagnostics or whatever it is. Just because you don't know right now, doesn't mean you can't learn and you can't figure it out. You're not, Cecil Bullard: you're not stuck loving only one thing in your life. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. At least hopefully because, you. For me it was a very hard change to go from being a tech to being a service advisor. And there was some depression involved because I wasn't fixing cars and fixing cars was like crack cocaine. It was just like, yeah, Lucas Underwood: me too. Cecil Bullard: I had to learn that selling was now my crack cocaine and getting people's confidence in controlling the conversation and learning how to be really good at that. Cecil Bullard: And then I went to become, oh, I'm now I'm gonna manage a business or I'm gonna own a business. It's a whole nother, it's different skill sets, but you can be just as in love with that, as you can be in love with anything else. Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. And here's the thing is I think for me, like I had built my importance of fixing that car, right? Lucas Underwood: How many shop owners have you seen that you have a really hard time getting them to let go of the back of shop process or the front counter process? They need to be in control of it. And they will self-sabotage. To make sure they remain in control of it and they don't even realize they're doing it. Lucas Underwood: And they're like, happens all this doesn't work. People can't figure this out. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And the thing is like they, they get their self worth and their value from doing that. And I am learning, okay? And Michael Smith has been a big help with this, but I am learning Cecil Bullard: guy. Lucas Underwood: He is, I'm learning like, Hey, Lucas your vision's been shortsighted and if you want to have meaning and value and you wanna feel like you have purpose in life, teach the other people that work for you. Lucas Underwood: How to do the things that you did, so then you can move on to bigger and better things and impact more people. Cecil Bullard: And you can, as I said, you can't give somebody something you don't have. So if you have a business that's limited by you, then you only have so much to give. If you have a business that runs like a business where you can grow it and you can bring people in and train people and stuff, now you can affect a lot more lives. Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. And the other thing is, at the end of the day, there's gonna be a day for all of us, like it or not, where we're like, okay, either I'm getting so old that I can't do what I used to do and so I can't fix cars. And the legacy that you're gonna leave, the legacy that you're gonna leave is what the knowledge that you give and the help that you give to other people to be successful, that's what's gonna be there. Cecil Bullard: You can't, Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So to me, like for the institute, how many people can I help? How much? Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: When I had the brain tumor last year or the, yeah, last year. It, you don't know what's gonna happen and what are you thinking about and have I done enough here? Have I changed enough lives, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: Sure. And it was really nice. I got a lot of people that were very supportive. I got a lot of people that said, Hey, Cecil, I just wanted you to know, you've just, you've really changed my life and a lot of the people's lives and my company. And I still like today I am like, okay, how many more lives can we change right before the game's up? Cecil Bullard: How many lives can we change? And it's not, for me, it's not about the money, it's about helping as many people understand the machine so that they can really make the machine run well. Lucas Underwood: You're absolutely right. And I'm just gonna be completely honest with you. I don't think I've ever told you this, when all that was going on I sent Kent an email and I said, I am really worried about this. Lucas Underwood: I'm really concerned. I really need Cecil to pull through with this. And he said, I really appreciate that. And I said, good, because it was his turn to buy dinner. Cecil Bullard: There you go. That's right. I'm saying like, come on, Nancy. He's, he owes me a steak and a good glass of whiskey. Are you kidding? Oh no. I feel like he's Lucas Underwood: trying to skip out on the bill. Lucas Underwood: What is going Cecil Bullard: on Lucas Underwood: here? Cecil Bullard: No. Yeah that's wonderful. Hey, one, one more thing. Yeah. Before I know we're at the end. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: There, there is some math around setting your labor rate. So there's a couple of things. Number one, if it's me and I, now, I don't say everybody should. Cecil Bullard: I, now it's if it's me or this is what I would do if somebody around me was 200 bucks an hour, I'm gonna be two 20. I'm always gonna be the most expensive guy in town. And so I'm not calling around to find the cheapest guy and try to be close to him or below him. Yeah. I'm actually calling around to find the most expensive guy and I wanna be a little more expensive than him because I have, I really feel like I have that value. Cecil Bullard: So if the labor rates in your area are, if the dealership's two 50 and you're working on those cars. Why would you be less than two 50? Yeah. Okay. I'm Lucas Underwood: sorry. But dealerships are less skilled than independent shops. Did I say that out loud? Cecil Bullard: I know that. And by the way, the consumer believes that to be true too for the last five years. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: exactly. Cecil Bullard: So the other thing about that is I can afford to pay up to 40% of my effective labor rate. So whatever your posted rate is, that doesn't mean anything. What do you really get per hour? And that is a calculation of labor dollars brought in a time period times labor hours that were billed, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so you may say I'm see something $180 an hour, but my effective labor rate's only 140. Alright? Yeah. And so I can't base my, what I pay my tech on 180. I have to base my tech on what I pay at 140. Because that's what I'm getting paid and can pay. And Lucas Underwood: you have to take into account production. Lucas Underwood: You can't Cecil Bullard: just, yeah. And I, yeah. And and that's why when we build these performance enhanced pay plans, they pay more when they're productive and less when they're not productive. So that we hold margin throughout, right? Yeah. Yeah. And but I can afford to pay up to 40% loaded, meaning FICA few to workers' comp, all the expenses that I would expense. Cecil Bullard: So if I'm $150 an hour, I can pay $60 an hour to my best tech in that shop. And then I gotta back that off about $12. So I really have about 48 that I can pay. And if I wanna build it I'm probably gonna take 30 to 32 or 35, give them a base based on the clock, and then I'm gonna build 14 or 15 into a bonus structure. Cecil Bullard: And by the way, at that point, I can actually pay more because when they get above 40 hours. And if I'm using a 1.3 matrix, I should have some people that can do more than 40 hours a week. And if I do that and I get above that, any money that comes in, I have higher margins. So I can actually afford to pay more than, yep, that $60, I could probably go to 64 loaded or 65 loaded. Cecil Bullard: If they are productive and if they're not productive, if they're 70% like the rest of the industry, I can't even afford to pay 60 now. I've got to be down in the forties. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. Cecil Bullard: A hundred percent. So I just wanted that kind of to be out there. And I know we have a labor rate calculator. And I don't have an example of it here. Cecil Bullard: I'm not, I didn't I got here and I was like, oh, did they? But I'm more happy we had a webinar. Lucas Underwood: Oh, Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Some days, I more than happy to whoever wants that if they hit Raleigh, who, what are they gonna, where are they gonna go? Lucas Underwood: I think they can email it to info at the institute.com. Cecil Bullard: [email protected]. We are sure. The institute Lucas Underwood: dot Cecil Bullard: com's on the Yeah, we are the institute.com info. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And we'll make sure, and it'll be on the screen here. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Got it. Cecil Bullard: I think we're at that time, buddy, as much Lucas Underwood: as, yeah, we were at that time six minutes ago, but I was just gonna let you talk as long as you wanted to talk. Lucas Underwood: Cecil folks. Cecil Bullard: There you go. Lucas Underwood: Thank you so much for being here, and thank you for being part of what's changing the industry. We all believe in making the industry a better place for not just shop owners, but technicians, service advisors, and the consumer. So thank you for being part of what's changing it. Lucas Underwood: Thank you to the institute for putting this on, and we look forward to seeing you guys real soon.

192 - Standing at the Crossroads featuring Brian Bates, EAS Tire and Auto February 9, 2025 - 01:42:25   Show Summary: Service, leadership, and purpose sit at the center of Brian Bates’ journey. A military veteran and president of EAS Tire and Auto in Denver, Brian shares how his path from technician to multi-location owner was shaped by mentorship, values-based leadership, and a deep belief that business exists to serve people first. This episode of Leading Edge: Standing at the Crossroads explores what it takes to scale without losing your soul. Brian reflects on building culture before growth, hiring for character, creating opportunity for others, and why fixing cars was never the end goal, only the entry point. From nearly running out of cash to leading a rapidly growing organization, he breaks down the leadership shifts required to move from survival, to success, to significance. At its core, this conversation is about legacy. Not store count, revenue, or titles, but the lasting impact a leader leaves on people, families, teams, and communities through principled decisions and servant leadership. Thinking about the legacy you are building as a shop owner or leader? Meet with Michael Smith to start a leadership and legacy strategy conversation: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session   Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Guest(s): Brian Bates, owenr of EAS Tire and Auto   Show Highlights: [00:02:54] - Brian Bates shares how the auto industry started as a practical move to provide for his family, then became something bigger. [00:05:38] - A strong mentor helped turn leadership theory into real-world skill through daily application. [00:11:34] - Brian Bates says fixing cars was “a ticket to the dance,” but the real work is serving people. [00:12:21] - The shift from “building my lifestyle” to “removing obstacles for others” became Brian Bates’ definition of leadership. [00:16:10] - The turning point came when the question changed from “how much more can I take?” to “how far can I take this?” [00:23:00] - Culture stopped being chaos once purpose and values were defined clearly enough to attract the right people. [00:29:18] - Big growth goals felt outrageous at first, then got outpaced by momentum and opportunity. [00:49:15] - Values-based accountability replaces rules with ownership, and misfits often choose to exit on their own. [01:23:37] - Brian Bates breaks down success as survival, success, and significance, then explains what it looks like to leave without the business collapsing.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/_n_jyKDI-Rc   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Kent Bullard: Hello everybody and welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge Crossroads podcast where we examine the decisions that professionals make that define careers that shape industries that inspire thought leadership and ultimately build lasting legacies. I'm Kent Bullard and I'm joined here with my esteemed colleague, Michael Hertzberg Smith. Kent Bullard: And today we're privileged to be speaking with Brian Bates of EAS Tire and Auto. You're the president there out of Denver. Today's guest, Brian Bates is a proud fourth generation Colorado native and an accomplished entrepreneur with a rich history of service and dedication. After graduating from Golden High School in 1991, Brian followed his family's tradition of military service joining the army and serving honorably until 1996. Kent Bullard: During this time in Germany, he and his wife Rondi welcome their son, the first of two children who would become your greatest pride. Right. Right. Brian transitioned into the automotive industry balancing work as a technician at Planet Honda and earning a degree in business management from Metro State University of Denver in 2000. Kent Bullard: With an A SCL one Master Technician Certification and an a M designation, he quickly rose to prominence in the field. In 2004, he took the leap to entrepreneurship opening his first shop in Columbine Hills. Today he is the owner of 12 Thriving Shops and a founding partner of Straightaway Tire and Auto. Kent Bullard: Formed in 2023 with Michael Smith's help, and alongside four of your closest friends. Recognize for your excellence. Brian's shops were awarded the number one Napa auto Care Center in the nation in 2018. Beyond his professional success, he treasures his roles as a family man recently celebrating the birth of his first grandchild, Tatum Duke, in October, 2024. Kent Bullard: When not working, Brian enjoys snow skiing, boating, wake boarding, and four-wheeling, inviting the adventurous spirit of his Colorado roots. We're thrilled to have Brian Bates share his remarkable journey and insights with us today on the Institute's leading Edge Crossroads podcast. Welcome, Brian. Brian Bates: All right. Brian Bates: Thank you. Thanks for having me on, Ken. Good seeing you again, Michael. You too, my friend. Kent Bullard: I love it. Listeners as we go through the topics today, the shared experience from Brian, if you have any questions or comments about this content, please go down in the comments and ask your questions. That's the whole point of this podcast. Kent Bullard: We also ask if you do enjoy what you hear, please like and share so that others can benefit from this conversation as well. And of course, you can find more information about the institute at We are the institute.com. So Brian, I wanna start off, you know, what originally drew you into the industry and what inspired you to commit to it? Brian Bates: Well, you know, the first thing that drew me to the industry was the ability, the opportunity to provide for my family after getting outta the military and while I was going to pursue my degree at Metro State. The, the idea that I could make decent money and work during the day was very inviting at the time. Brian Bates: I, you know, most of my options were in the restaurant industry or some, you know, retail industry that, you know, would be odd hours, odd days, that sort of thing. So that was the original draw. And then after being in it for a few years, I was just really drawn by the people, you know, the customers the ownership of the dealership, the store manager, my colleagues that I was working with on a day-to-day basis. Brian Bates: And just really had a good time working and in the trenches and just doing all the rolling up the sleeves, getting dirty and filling. At the end of the day, like I'd really accomplished something and watching my pay increase as my knowledge increased, being able to invest in myself with technical expertise, with experience, the challenge of. Brian Bates: Figuring out what's going on with a car or beating flat rate time and making, you know, more money as a result. So, and again, working with other people and as I grew in the dealership, I became a mentor and had several apprentices working for me throughout the years. And that was also rewarding and exciting to see them grow and to be able to share my knowledge with them and help them experience the same sort of success that I was able to, and the same opportunities that I was able to, I got into the industry. Brian Bates: So that, that was my initial draw to the industry and then it just kind of took off from there. Michael Smith: Well, you had a positive mentor relationship at the dealership, if I remember the original stories. Could you tell us a little bit about that positive mentor in your life and how it kind of got you started and kind of a thought process about how to be in this industry? Brian Bates: Yeah. So it, it really was an unintentional situation, but I just can't think of a better luck of the draw or a better situation just by, you know, happenstance for me or anybody in any industry really. I I was going to, to school, getting my degree going to night school mostly. I had some day classes, but most of them were night. Brian Bates: And so as I moved up in the ranks, I was able to really utilize a lot of that knowledge that I was learning at the dealer or at school. At the dealership as I was working on it, especially since I was getting a degree in management, which is mainly people once I realized that my a degree in management wasn't all about accounting and spreadsheets and you know, crunching numbers and whatnot and I realized that it was all about leadership and organizational behavior, you know, motivating people and all those fun things that we kinda talk about on a daily basis. Brian Bates: That's what really. Gave me a passion for getting a degree in management. And so I was fortunate to have the dealership, the service manager at the dealership who ended up being the fixed operation manager, as the dealership grew. He was very passionate about leadership and just about the industry and mentoring and helping people. Brian Bates: And so as I was learning all the stuff I was learning at school, I was able to really talk with him and have that second sort of education and mentorship. That was the application of the knowledge. You know, not knowledge isn't alone, isn't power. The application of the knowledge is really where the power comes in. Brian Bates: And so the ability to really apply all that knowledge as I was growing and learning and working at the dealership, and then to multiply that with a mentor that really could help me make sense of what, you know, what. What to do in certain situations and kind of how the world works and how to, like you said, Michael, how to be and the important things about just work in general, but especially the automotive industry. Brian Bates: That was that, that was just so powerful in my career that that, like I said, I just can't imagine that I could have been in a better situation than that. Michael Smith: So many, I'm sorry. So many of us have these leadership experiences where we get. Into leaders, being leaders ourselves. And we look back and, well, I don't wanna do this and I don't wanna do that. Michael Smith: Oh my gosh. When I'm a leader, I'm not gonna do that. And I'm just pleased you and I talked, Ben, known each other for quite a while and I know who, how that mentor meant a lot to you and how you were able to walk outta that experience with those memories and with those perspectives. And to some extent have it be a little bit of your leadership foundation as you came out into your own. Michael Smith: And I just I loved it. That's why I just asked, I know that's, to have a positive start. Like that's a great building, building block start. Right. So Kent Bullard: we've been Absolutely, Michael Smith: yeah. Kent Bullard: We've been having kind of this internal conversation outside the podcast, I mean, today just about application. And I'm curious to know, what do you think was the driving factor or the inspiration for you to take what you were learning and to apply it? Kent Bullard: What got you to apply that knowledge? Brian Bates: Well, a little bit of it was just being forced into they say necessity is a mother of invention, right? So I think it's the same about the application of knowledge is is, you know, the necessity of it. But you know, I started at the dealership just ripping plastic off of new vehicles and you know, getting 'em ready for the front line and which is really the, you know, as far as the service department, that's about the entry IST level, if that's a word in the dealership. Brian Bates: And so went from there to being, you know, they started letting me work on vehicles and then worked my way into a line technician position. And then eventually after a couple years, I was a team leader. And then after a few more years I moved into a shop foreman position. So. It again, just kind of followed in line with where I was at school. Brian Bates: After getting through my general studies after a couple years, I was actually moving into that leadership position and taking some of those basic management classes and you know, I also, while I was in the military, I was a sergeant, so had taken quite a bit of leadership classes in the military as well. Brian Bates: So wasn't a stranger to leadership at all. But it just, you know, continued on as I was going into management. And, you know, a lot of that real instinctive leadership that you have in the military, which really is, you know, a lot of self preservation based and based on you know, the preservation of your colleagues and the people beside you and above you and, you know, that you're serving. Brian Bates: So, all of that again, just is that building upon, you know, a foundation upon another foundation that really got me to the point where I was applying what I learned and again, my passion people, you know, probably not so much recently just because, you know, I've seen more as the business owner versus the car guy. Brian Bates: But a lot of people used to ask me, Hey, you know, what kind of cars do you have? What cars do you love? What do you love about working on cars? And I mean, the answer to that is honestly I really don't have a passion to work on cars. That was just what gave me a ticket to the dance, was that I could work on cars and make money. Brian Bates: And while I was mastering and learning more about how to run the shop how to lead people, how to be, you know, the best leader and the kind of leader that leader that people will follow and that I can inspire other people to to follow the purpose and the drive and where we're going as a company and where I'm, you know, wanting to go as a, as an individual in this field. Brian Bates: And it being my career is you know, and that is all dependent on helping other people get where they want to go, right? I mean, this isn't I think some people feel like being in business or being a business owner is that everybody serves your your whim and that the business is there to serve your lifestyle. Brian Bates: And I don't agree with that. I think that the purpose of being a business owner is that you have the ability to really have a significant impact on other people's lives and to help them get where they want to go. And the more you're able to do that a higher level and at, you know, a larger scale, then then you benefit from it, right? Brian Bates: But you know that's a result. That's not the purpose. It's a, you know, a benefit or a result of what you're doing. And the purpose really is that you're, you know, you're helping other people get where they want to go so that you can, you know, get where you want to go and that's where you move from. Brian Bates: Being a rank and file person to being a leader is that you're dependent on the results of the people that are on your team, right? The people you serve, people that you're saying, Hey, you know, I'm here to remove obstacles outta your way so that you can do what you want to or what what you're looking to do that I can help you get where you want go. Brian Bates: Right. Versus, Hey, you know, I need you to do these items so that I can elevate myself to the next position or to a higher level. I mean, I think that's really old school thinking. So Kent Bullard: I'm curious to know, going back to the early days, was it a cycle of, a consistent cycle of learning, applying and then seeing the results, you know, learn, apply, result, or were there key moments in the beginning part of your journey that got you focused on like memories that it's like, I distinctly remember this happened and I was like, I wanna pursue management, or I wanna pursue leadership. Brian Bates: So, you know, that's a pretty loaded question, right? Because what's going through my mind is, and I say loaded meaning complex, right? Is that what's going through my mind is that there in, you know, my experience, there's that process, but it's not one dimensional, it's multidimensional. When you start you're thinking about, as a father, you know, you go through that, where do I want to be? Brian Bates: How am I gonna get there? Here's the plan. Execute, then, you know, what are the results? And that can be in several different aspects. Just in, you know, as being a father or, you know, you know, be, you know, in, in your financial, knowledge and in your career. And, you know, Michael Smith does a a great exercise in one of his leadership classes about the Wheel of Life, you know, and there's all those spokes in the wheel of life. Brian Bates: And so I think that's, that cycle is is, like I said, just multi-layer, multi-dimensional, and each one is kind of at a different phase at any given time. The as far as my career goes, I think again, that there's different things that kind of that, that I look at, Hey, this is where I wanna be. Maybe that could be, you know, one layer would be pay, another layer would be, you know, where I am as a technician, you know, my skill level as a technician, where I am in the company as far as, you know, the level of my position, right? Brian Bates: Compared to other people in the company. So, you know, to answer your question. As far as my career I think that it was something that just kind of started building on itself. Right. And you know, John Maxwell talks about this in his, in one of his books. I think probably several of his books, a lot of 'em have the same thing, but they that at some point, I think in our careers, we go from this point of like, how far do I have to go? Brian Bates: How much work do I have to do to attain success? And then that's kind of that input of energy. Right. And your. You're kind of feeling like you're exhausted and there's times where you know, you might feel like giving up or, you know, you might have to take a break, that sort of thing. Brian Bates: And that to me is that input of energy you're constantly putting a ton of energy in. And in my career, at least at some point, those scales sort of tipped where you get more energy out of it than what you're putting into it. And you move to this instead of, how much do I have to do in order to reach success? Brian Bates: I'm thinking, how far can I take this? And and just, you know, those victories give you more energy and you start really, you wake up saying, you know, Hey look, you know, you're excited to go to work. I had a friend, I was at the gym and told him, Hey, I've got a hard stop. Brian Bates: I think it was six 30 I had to leave. And he goes, oh, do you have to go to work at that time? And I just looked at him and said, no, I get to go to work. Like, you know, I'm excited. I have a hard stop because I gotta get this, you know, this project going, and I'm excited to get there. And no, I don't have to. Brian Bates: I have the opportunity and the privilege to go do this. So, but, you know, it's not always like that. And so over time I just felt like I could see that energy and the return on my investment just start to kind of build sort of the snowball. And then it started, you know, I started. Brian Bates: Getting like that glimpse of, Hey, look, this is kind of fun. There's a lot of pain involved, but you know, every once in a while something's fun, right? And then then over time it's like, you know, this is about half pain, half fun. And then at this point in my career, I think is there's, you know, some moments of stress or frustration, but. Brian Bates: By large, just a lot of fun and excitement and and something that again I wake up and I'm excited to, to get in and get going on the day and see, you know, what the day has in store for me. Kent Bullard: I'm somewhat a little relieved that you have the same thoughts that a lot of us do in that Wow, today sucks a little bit. Kent Bullard: And it's gonna be hard and it's challenging. And, you know, you said, you talked about the thought of giving up and the thought of, you know, maybe I need to take a break. But also I think I, I can appreciate that you more so have this con can continuous, iterative process of how am I continually moving forward or getting better until you hit that tipping point. Kent Bullard: And I wanna talk about what that looked like for you. A little later on when you did hit that tipping point, what did it feel like? What did it look like? But more so I'm curious to go back to again, the struggle. So when you first started your business what were some of the most challenging obstacles that you faced and what do you think you did that helped you overcome those challenges? Brian Bates: Well, I would say by far the largest challenge or obstacle that I faced was myself. You know, I mean, and I say that because if I knew now or back then what I know now, then I feel like I could have accomplished a ton more, a ton faster. So my frustrations. We're largely surrounded by people because that's the biggest challenge. Brian Bates: I feel like most people in this industry, and I feel like just in business in general, right, when you're in the people business some people are, you know, in say the aeronautics business or you know, engineering or, you know, most business does serve people in some sort of a capacity, but I feel like the automotive. Brian Bates: Industry is largely there to serve people, right? That, that's really the focus and people that understand that people are the focus. It's not cars. We, you know, we fix cars as a as part of our job. That's what we do. But really the focus is people. And and that's our job is to serve our customers, to serve the community, to serve our team members because. Brian Bates: You know, in the end the further they get in life and the further we can help them accomplish what they're looking to accomplish, whether it's to have a reliable vehicle that they can depend on without breaking the bank and a place they can trust, or whether it's a place they can go to work and earn a good living and reach the potential that they deserve in life. Brian Bates: That, that's really what the fact that when I said earlier that fixing cars just gave me a ticket to the dance, you know, the dance is the people, you know, fixing cars is not the dance. You know, if you can do, if you can fix the cars, then you know then you get a play out on the playground with everyone else. Brian Bates: But if you can't fix cars, or if you can't work well and sell be a good advisor on the front counter, you know, be a good manager, that sort of thing, then then you don't get a play in where all the action is. So, so, what was your question Michael Smith: again? So, just for fun. No I'll build on this when I, just for fun, when I met you. Many years ago you had three stores and you had four leaders around you. One was kind of a general manager and there were three store managers. And you were talking before about, gee, if I knew then what I know now, right. Michael Smith: That those guys didn't really like each other and they didn't work very well together and there wasn't a lot of teamwork going on and they kind of had different agendas and you tried to go help and they did their own thing after you left and all kinds of crazy stuff like that. Just for fun, looking back, w what, knowing now what, you know, years later 'cause there'd be a lot of people that may be listening to this, that are living the life now that I'm just described, that you were living then what did, what would you have taken back and from today to that time to start with what were the things that you've learned that would've been useful then when it was a little messy with leadership and the people around you? Brian Bates: You know, I would say the biggest thing that I learned. Having purpose being principle based having values as a company, operating principles, and how powerful that is to attract the sort of people that aren't dysfunctional, like what you talked about. Michael? I'd love to tell that story about how you and I met. Brian Bates: If, Michael Smith: yeah, Brian Bates: That's just fine. You go for it. Well, we, you know, Michael and I met you know, just kind of make a long story short, he was an advisor that was helping consult with a group of other people. And I really needed to understand how to increase revenue and increase profitability, all those things that most business owners think about to some degree or another. Brian Bates: Right? I mean, you know, you can't do this if you don't have the revenue and the expense structure figured out. And Michael was one of the first people to talk to me and he said, Hey, look, you really need to get your mission, your purpose put together and really work on your culture of the business, whatnot. Brian Bates: It's, you know, fairly dysfunctional and it's creating a lot of problems and obstacles in your business. And I said, yeah I get that. Let me figure out how to sell more work first and then generate that revenue and then we'll get to the culture thing later. And and so we you know, Michael was very persistent and said, Hey, are you ready to start working on your culture and really, you know, taking your business to the next level? Brian Bates: And as I started really analyzing what was going on in my business, I started realizing that it was all my frustrations were born out of, you know, just problems in the culture. And the culture was being dictated by some of the people that I hired. And, you know, I was, I was definitely never denied that the culture was all mine. Brian Bates: You know, I owned it good and bad. And so I finally, sCU to Michael's, you know, suggestions of, Hey, let's work on it. Let's work on it. Said, yeah, you know what, you're right Michael. Let's work on this. And we just started creating a vision for the company that created a vacuum and drew people into this idea that we created. Brian Bates: And I created it with the help of Michael and in collaboration with the rest of the team that was there at the time. And anybody that we hired afterwards, we were very clear that, hey, this is who we are as a company and these are the values that we hold important, and this is our purpose as a company and this is the mission that we're on. Brian Bates: And if you're if you're excited about that, I think you'll fit really well into the team. If you're not, then I wouldn't. Accept a position here, right? Because we just know it's better off to, if people don't believe in teamwork or growth or servant being a servant to to other people or being a professional in this industry, those are four core values. Brian Bates: Then then they probably won't work out. Those are the things that some of those people that were dysfunctional when Michael and I met those are the people that didn't work out, and it's because they didn't have those values. They didn't believe in teamwork. Like, like Michael said, they were backstabbing each other and they didn't believe in growing and being professional and and really caring about their customers and their teammates and the vendors and and really serving them and understanding that the result of increased revenue in general is a result of how well you serve people and care about them versus. Brian Bates: Saying, Hey, let's manipulate people in order to generate revenue, which is you know, very shortsighted and lacks a ton of integrity, right? Has a bunch of problems associated with that. So, Michael I remember you asked me when we first started out, Hey, what do you wanna be doing in two years? Brian Bates: And I said, well, I want to this was 2018. I said, well, I want to either build a company up to a place where I can sell it and get out of the industry because I was pretty burnt out. Or I said, I want to either be having fun and ready to continue to grow this business to to, to the highest, you know, potential that I can. Brian Bates: And the more we got into it, the more I realized that they were really one and the same. Right? Businesses that are very attractive have great cultures. They have high revenue. They they're they're fun. They're they're functional, meaning that they're not passive aggressive. They're they're active and collaborative and and they feed they, you know, get energy from the the business itself. Brian Bates: And once I out all the components that go into that, and much the same as kind of seeing that glimpse of leadership and there's a lot of pain and a little bit of, Hey, that was fun. You know, I wanna do it again. The same thing happened with the business over the years. And then it became something that, you know, over, you know, the next two years that Michael helped me build to the point where we were saying, Hey, look, this is a lot of fun. Brian Bates: Let's you know, we're building something special here. And we could see people being drawn to the business and just kind of jumping on our crusade and saying, Hey, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna build something special here. And we made some predictions that were very bold. I believe we said we were going to get to 10 stores by 2025. Brian Bates: We're at actually that bio is just a about a year outdated. We've got 14 stores right now. We're we're under LOI for another seven locations that will close by the end of probably the middle of January. And then we've got two more locations that we've got lined up for probably a February close. Brian Bates: So we'll be somewhere around 23, 24 stores here by the end of the second, or the first quarter in 2025. And I think we predicted 25 stores by 2030 was in our mission statement. And that Michael Smith: felt big at the time. Remember? That was like, wow, that's just Brian Bates: so Michael Smith: big and so far out. Kent Bullard: It Brian Bates: doesn't seem like it was a Kent Bullard: big enough goal. Michael Smith: Little did you know. Brian Bates: Well, no, it wasn't. And you know, the funny part about it was everybody thought we were just crazy. They're just, you know, and as those that had a little bit of faith started seeing, oh wow this is really you know, moving in the right direction. And then we started acquiring a couple stores and then, you know, there was another. Brian Bates: You know, people work for opportunity. They, they need money, right? They wanna be paid fairly, but the main reason the, especially the rock stars and unicorns are on your team is for the opportunity to see that, Hey, I've got the opportunity to compete for a position or to grow within the company based on my merits. Brian Bates: They don't, you know, rock stars and unicorns don't expect entitlement, but they do expect to be paid for their talent and their efforts. And that involves having the opportunity to do that, right? I mean, if all we have is a position as a GS and there's a master tech that wants to join our team, you know, if there's not that opportunity, then he's not gonna join our team. Brian Bates: Right? But, you know, if that master tech. Position is available and they say, Hey, I wanna move into management. And, you know, maybe being an area manager and learning the ropes here and possibly starting my own business. And if that opportunity is there and they see it then they wanna be on your team. Brian Bates: If they see that, hey, this shop has been a three bay shop for the last 50 years and no sign of growing, no potential, then you know, they, you could pay them what they're looking to make. You know, the true unicorns aren't gonna wanna work there. Michael Smith: Well, one of my, one of my favorite stories that, that you've told is that when you guys bought an a shutdown building and you put your brand on the front while you were getting ready to launch you started taking proactive phone calls from masters that were driving back and forth on their way to work. Michael Smith: They saw the sign, you guys had your reputation in the market, and that they'd call and say, Hey, I'm a master tech. I'm a master service advisor. I'm a top end store manager, and when you guys start interviewing, I wanna be on the list. And it's such an interesting story because the industry is like, well, how are we gonna find good talent? Michael Smith: And it's like, well, if you set this up right, they all they have to do is drive by the sign. Right. It's just an interesting you know, result that you guys have experienced. So, Brian Bates: congratulations. Yeah. No, it does. Congratulations Michael Smith: feed on Brian Bates: itself. And that, that is one of the you know, we have a little over a hundred employees or team members right now. Brian Bates: And when we get done with this acquisition of seven locations, we'll have somewhere around 150. And it's a big question, Hey, I've got six people in my store and it's extremely challenging to keep my store staffed. How do you do it with 150? And it's, to me, it's relative that the larger you grow, the more opportunity is there. Brian Bates: And so you do attract, if your culture is right, you do attract the right kind of people. Now there's other stores that, you know, we probably all know of a group, a chain of stores or something where. They're a large organization and they're struggling to keep good team members and their bays are empty, the parking lot's empty, that sort of thing. Brian Bates: And it does work both ways, right? It's not a given that if you're just, if you just scale your company, that you know people are gonna be attracted to you, you still have to do the work. Right. You still have to, you have to scale Michael Smith: it the right way. You have to scale it Brian Bates: the right way. Kent Bullard: Absolutely. So, I'm I wanna go back a little bit because you talked about the people that are saying, well, you know, I've got the three bay shop. Kent Bullard: This is where I'm at. I'm, you know, at what point in your journey did you hit that crossroad? You see, I got the title there. Yeah, you got the crossroad in there. In there. When did you hit that crossroad? When you considered a future beyond the current business you had. Brian Bates: So the question being when I was just at a single store and I considered a business beyond that. Brian Bates: So bigger Kent Bullard: than just the single location? Yeah. When did you decide to go big? Brian Bates: What Kent Bullard: happened? Right? Brian Bates: Like, yeah. You know, that was a matter of just realizing. That I had people on my team that had bigger ambitions than to just work at a single location. Our first location was a four bay converted gas station. Brian Bates: You know, had been a two bay gas station. The owner before me had added on a couple more lifts or a couple more bays, and I realized that if if I didn't give more opportunities, I was going to le lose people. And it was just going to be difficult to hold onto good, solid people. So. I found a, another store that had closed down during the 2008 recession, and we signed a lease on that building and started hiring more people. Brian Bates: And the people that were at the first location, they were very excited that we were growing. I realized that our customers you know, something that I didn't expect, but the customers were really excited to see us growing too. You know, they, people like doing business with a winning, winning team. Brian Bates: And so when they see that you're growing and that you're becoming, you know, larger or you know, you're having increased success as time goes on, there's a sense of comfort there, I think from your customers to know that, hey, they must be doing well. They must be doing a good job. I'm at the right place. Brian Bates: And so they did get excited about and I think everybody. Well, well, not everybody. A lot of people like to see people win that if they understand small business that it's very risky. It's it's extremely grueling. You know, we almost went out of business a couple years after I bought the the shop. Brian Bates: We were down to our last few thousand dollars and at the beginning of January, one year, which is not the time to, you know, be short on cash flow. And we just, we had the best January we'd ever had. We only had a January, one January to base that off of, but it was a really good January compared to that one. Brian Bates: And we were able to put some money in in the bank and start building up our cash reserve again. So I think people understand how difficult it is and they they admire and respect when somebody is actually. Making progress so that I started seeing the the exponential traction of having a second location. Brian Bates: I was able to attract more customers and more team members. And so, I had a conversation with John ler and Dan Gilley at the time, and they had told me from experience, Hey. If you go to two locations, you should plan to go to three locations because most people never stay at two locations. Brian Bates: There are some, but most people either go from one to two to one, or they go from one to two to three, and you know, they may stay at three or they may move forward, but two locations is just twice as much work. 'cause you don't have the ability to have a layer of middle management there as an area manager and work on some of the stuff that. Brian Bates: The business, you know, you know, it just so happens that running the business ends up being a full-time job at some point. So you just, you need to have people there to work on keeping everything going, the processes and working with the team members and whatnot. Helping them solve problems, solving their issues for them as they're bringing up, you know, challenges that they're faced with. Brian Bates: So, so yeah. Then, you know, two businesses just, you know, I knew that I was gonna go to three, and then when I got to three, I met Michael and I was, you know, trying to run three individual businesses. And Michael was pretty quick to point out that, hey, we need to run a single business here, not three individuals. Brian Bates: And then helped me find a find my, my business partner bill kind of a mutual friend, or Michael was a mutual friend of Bill and mine. And so, you know, bill and I hit it off and we both believed in the same things, had the same values and whatnot. And bill helped me run it as a single business versus three separate ones. Brian Bates: And then that's really when things started taking off was just. Bringing all those components together and building a cohesive business versus multiplying, you know, the work we were able to multiply and scale the business versus just adding more and more tasks to our day. Well, Michael Smith: you two together are a fantastic combination because you were by, by defensiveness, I suppose, having to work in the business quite a bit. Michael Smith: And then when Bill showed up, he was fully capable from a background of 30 store overview. Right. Kind of a, he had a big background when he sat down, he said, give it to me. I'll run it. You go out and work on the business and I'll work in it. And you guys are a fabulous combination that way because he's a machine running it from within and you've done extraordinary things from the outside of your business working in, you know, from the outside. Michael Smith: And it's been a, it's been a powerful combination. You two and that's scale allowed you to do that, right? You two then scaled up and then you could put talent around you and the talent that would aspire for growth came to you and the people who didn't want to grow left you and you replaced them with people who wanted to grow. Michael Smith: And it sort of takes on a life of its own and Right, right. And it'd be great if you would share a little bit about that life of its own and the leaders that you can attract now versus the ones that left that didn't wanna be part of this. Right. Because you guys recruit and hire in a different way than most folks do. Michael Smith: What you and Bill do at the beginning is different than what most people do. It'd be awesome if you would just share a little bit of a snippet of that about what you're able to do with what you've built. Brian Bates: I I feel real fortunate that I was able to connect with somebody like Bill that is extremely talented and wise and and has the shares the same values and principles that I do. Brian Bates: The other part of that though is that kind of going back to what we were talking about, really putting that defining that foundation of who are we as a business and what are our values and our mission and our purpose. That's really what Drew Bill to me, right? I mean, he had an offer to go work at the headquarters of Advanced Auto Parts, and he was ready to accept that offer, move to North Carolina. Brian Bates: And Michael Smith: yeah, not to interrupt you, but that was my conversation with him. I said wait. Freaking on the plane. I got one more guy you need to talk to before you decide to fly outta town. Right. And that was you guys getting together and connecting on your dreams or your visions together. Michael Smith: Right. Which I just wanna throw that in. There was, he was one foot out the door on the way to Raleigh at that point. Interesting. Brian Bates: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, so, so I'd say I'm fortunate on one side, you know, there's, there is a little bit of luck involved there, but you know, those kind of people I think are around us. Brian Bates: But if they're not attracted or you don't have something to attract them to your business, then you will never know. Right. You know, they'll either not reveal themselves as a unicorn and open up or. You'll know their unicorn and be frustrated that they don't want to take a job. And truly that's what you're trying to sell them is a job versus a career and an opportunity that you'll be frustrated that they're walking away and going somewhere else. Brian Bates: I'm attracted to something else. So with with Bill coming on board I did express my passion for leadership and to grow the company and to run a business that we could look at and be very proud of. And all the principles that we wanted to build that business on are, you know, our purpose is, you know, very simple. Brian Bates: It's a little bit more defined on our purpose statement, but it's just about making other people's lives better. And if we can fix a car or if we can help, a team member or be involved in the community and just use our position and our skills as auto repair professionals to make other people's lives better. Brian Bates: Then the result is that we get rewarded with with more profits. However that just allows us to, gives us the power to grow our families and you know, to create this sort of a legacy that we wanna create. In the end, I, you know, I don't think anybody in in the right frame of mind, meaning that is doing this for the right reasons or business for the right reasons. Brian Bates: Really if they are, looks at it and says, Hey, look, if I can, if I can manipulate people to do the right thing or help other people, then I can buy that Lear jet or that this is going to be one of those businesses where I'm going to be, you know, a multi-billionaire, that sort of thing. Brian Bates: I mean, you know, is it possible? Maybe, but I think most people are just looking at it like, Hey, you know, if I do a solid business, I can earn a good living and, you know, retire someday and put, you know, my kids through school and live in a comfortable house. And. That's where it comes back to, you really need to, you know, once you define the higher purpose of working on cars, then a lot of that just, you know, it takes care of itself, right? Brian Bates: You don't have to say, how do I, you know, how do I generate more sales? What's the sales program that, you know, the sales training I need to put my advisors in and, you know, the technicians and whatnot, and you're trying to manage personalities and you just feel like you're, you know, managing a three ring circus. Brian Bates: So, so when it does come to finding that person that you're looking for, again, your biggest challenge is in your own in your own mirror of saying, what kind of business are, am I passionate about defining that business and then finding those people that wanna join in on that. Yep. Michael Smith: And the beauty of it is that when you get that team built and you guys are walking out, the purpose of the character that the loyal brand ambassador customers that are meaning based, they're chasing meaning to find you guys, and they come for auto repair and they leave with a meaning connection. Michael Smith: Their motivation internally is to come back to you again because you're talking their language. And those are the people that will build these long-term covenant relationships that are really, you know, the future profitability of the industry is knowing how to serve that top end client. And they come because of who you've demonstrated that you actually are. Michael Smith: And it's just a super powerful, you're right, it takes care of itself in the end, right? Once you make that commitment, build the culture, get the rock stars, walk it out. In real life, those customers come and they're sticky. They'll stay forever. Right. They're Brian Bates: great customers. So, so one of part of your question was how do we hire what's the process that we use to hire and that is the process is we I kind of joke around with our managers because we do a little bit of a two step process where we'll interview at a higher level for that candidate, and then we will have the managers really look into the technical capacity of the candidate. Brian Bates: And we're, as we're developing our managers, we're developing them so that they can also hire for that higher or interview for that higher level. But really what we try to do is just. When we're interviewing for the character side of things, we're looking for, are these candidates, are they humble? Brian Bates: Are they hungry, and are they smart? You know, and emotionally smart, meaning that they work well with other people and do they hold the values that we hold very high. And once we check those boxes, then we say, okay, now can you do the job that we're hiring you for? So in, in short, I just. Tell our managers, you know, if they don't understand that process, that we're just trying to make sure that we don't get any psycho killers into the, you know, trying to eliminate those, you know, murders from our from our shop. Brian Bates: And Michael Smith: but it is genius. It's genius because you and Bill spend your time making sure that the cultural fit is there and that you're hiring champions and these people are the real deal. And then when the time comes that they've passed that level of test, which it's a rarefied crowd that can join you at the level that you guys have chosen to live, then whether they can fix cars or sell at the front desk, lots of people can fix cars and sell at the front desk and don't fit your culture model. Michael Smith: So it makes a lot of sense that's where you guys put your time is making sure you're hiring family and it's very powerful. Brian Bates: And so I, I kind of say the ax murder tongue in cheek, but really they're not killing people, but they're killing the culture, right? I mean, they bring an ax in and they start swinging at your culture and it destroys your culture. Brian Bates: And the beauty of. When you hire based on values and principles and purpose and whatnot, when you have the conversation, like one of our principles our values is teamwork and an operating principle is to be on time. Right? And the reason for that is your team is depending on you. I depend on, as a technician I would depend on an advisor to be there to take care of the customer so that I have work to work on or cars to work on, right? Brian Bates: And as an advisor, they're depending on you to show up so that when they're taking care of the customers, that they can give the customer what they came in for. So instead of saying, Hey, the rules are to, you gotta be here, ready to work at eight o'clock, and if you don't follow those rules, we're gonna let you go. Brian Bates: The conversation is, Hey, when we hired you, you expressed to me that you have a strong belief and you hold teamwork at a very high. Value and what you're doing when you don't show up on time is you're letting your team down. So, you know, is there something that's getting in the way of, you know, I mean, if you've got, you know, childcare duties and, you know, things get hung up or whatnot, then that's understandable. Brian Bates: But if somebody just isn't motivated to get to work on time and and they just cannot. And it happens to all of us, right? Where it's this 23-year-old technician that for some reason can't make it to work before eight 15, no matter what you say. And even if you have these conversations and say, Hey, look you believe, you said you believe in teamwork, but you're violating that principle on a regular basis. Brian Bates: So what is it? Is it that you don't believe in teamwork or that you know, you do believe in teamwork, but you're just, you know, violating your own personal value. And if that's the case, like you should rethink, you know, do you really believe in teamwork? And if you do, you should stay true to yourself on that. Brian Bates: And the beauty of this is that, I can tell you just on that conversation alone, right? Just somebody that won't come into work or can't make it to work on time. And when you sit down and you talk to 'em and say, Hey, look, this is all about teamwork. Not a rule that if you break the rule, I'm the boss and you better do it. Brian Bates: Or you're fired, right? But it's, Hey, we're building a team here and you're letting us down. And I've got a responsibility to everybody else on the team to make sure that people are coming, that, that are all the people that are joining our team also hold those values very highly. So, you've consistently demonstrated you can't make it to work before eight 15. Brian Bates: You violated this over and even though you realize you're violating it, like, do you really fit in here? I mean, what you tell me, is this really where you should be? Like how and sometimes. And a lot of times, honestly, you know, and those are different con conversations based on whether they're violating different values. Brian Bates: A lot of times they say, you know what I, I really don't feel like this is where I need to be. And you just say, well, what are you gonna do? And I'm gonna go find somewhere else to work. That's probably what I would suggest. Right? Yeah. And I can't tell you how many times I've had that conversation with people and they just self eliminate. Brian Bates: Right. But it does give them the opportunity to leave on their own terms versus feeling like you unjustifiably fired them because of some arbitrary rule that really doesn't matter. Michael Smith: Well, and Brian, to use language, Kent and I were talking about earlier today, you have set up a redemptive culture and you have redemptive conversations with people. Michael Smith: And if they choose not to redeem, right? Not to challenge themselves and say, Hey, I'm living outside of my belief structure and I'm okay with that. I think I'll take that somewhere else. Then they're own, they're in charge of their own remedial solution to that, right? As you say, they self dismiss and you're like, well, can I help you? Michael Smith: You know, I'll give you a good work referral. I can't give you a good cultural referral, but I'll give you a good work referral. Can I help you? Right, right. And it's just, it's a completely different. Expectations set. You're not in contest with them anymore. You're not pushing them to show up on time. Michael Smith: They start either doing it because it becomes important to them, or they decide they don't care. And then they pick it up, take it somewhere Brian Bates: else, right? And we've had, Michael Smith: yeah, Brian Bates: plenty of those conversations as well, right? Is, Hey, do you realize you're violating this principle that you know, on the surface have told me that you hold a very highly, and they go, you know what, I hadn't thought about it that way, but you're right. Brian Bates: And I need to get my act together. And you know that also solves the problem when they look at it and it's just, it's about running a principle values-based organization versus a rules-based positional organization that is very ative, right? Hey, do it this way, or Get out Michael Smith: well, and that. Michael Smith: That very moment is very psychologically sticky, right? When somebody comes to a conclusion that you're helping them to become a better person and they actually make that decision for themselves, they appreciate that from you and they appreciate you, and that makes 'em stickier as an employee, right? Michael Smith: They're less likely to pick up and go somewhere Kent Bullard: else. It's very powerful. Who wouldn't wanna work for somebody that is driving that? I mean, you're people first. You know, one of the, one of the first things that made you kind of look at pursuing being better is that you were the obstacle. You changed your own perception first, and then you looked at, well, in order to take care of the people that I'm serving, they need more opportunity. Kent Bullard: And so the reason you bought another business was to serve others. I mean, your whole drive is to help people. And who wouldn't want to be a part of that? How attractive is that to work for somebody whose sole purpose is to serve you, to make you the best possible version of yourself? Brian Bates: Right. Brian Bates: And that's the fundamental concept of a servant leader, right. Is, and that's exactly what I want to be known for, is somebody that came in and helped other people and was, you know, interested in their, personally, interested in their success, not interested in manipulating somebody for my personal success of building, you know, some accounts, you know, a cash account or whatnot. Michael Smith: Well, and the beauty of it is they work harder for you. They produce more, they do it partially for themselves, partially to be part of a championship team, partially to make you proud of. Which is a beautiful relationship, and you end up getting more productivity out of them. Right? It, the productivity follows this self instead of chasing it. Michael Smith: It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kent Bullard: So, so you're building this legacy and you are actively building a lasting legacy. What are the, what elements are most important for you to leave both personally and professionally through your company? Brian Bates: Leave? Like, when I leave the industry Michael Smith: or Kent Bullard: Yeah. The legacy. Leave this earth or whatever leaving looks like to you. Michael Smith: Let's start with leaving the industry. Yeah. Let's, or leaving the company. Maybe stay in the industry, right? Let's back it off at death a little bit, right? So, Brian Bates: yeah. Yeah. No. You know, bill does a good job at teaching a class the five levels of leadership. And one of the exercises at the end of that class is to write your own, your own obituary, right? And it can be just a career obituary or whatever you wanna, but it is, you know, like, what do you want people to say about you? And I always joke around that I've never heard an accountant give an obituary in my life, right? It's like, you know, and pull out the net worth statement as well. Brian Bates: You know, he had these loans, but you know, he also had this money in the bank and, you know, well, we should all be so proud of Joe. You know, he was worth $800,000 when he passed away. And you know, there's the benefactors right there, Susie, and you know, Michael, or you know what, whatnot. But but you know, it's true, right? Brian Bates: Is, you know, you want to turn around five years from now or 10 or 20 or 30 and say, man, that was really cool what I did, and not have regrets. Know that you're gonna make mistakes, but not regret you know, and to me, regretting is not trying or not, chasing or aiming for a noble purpose versus you know, things, right, or just, you know, some cash account. Brian Bates: I think Sam Walton, he was on his deathbed and somebody asked him his thoughts as he was he was, you know, terminally ill. And he said, you know, I'm I got it all wrong. I mean, here's a guy who's a billionaire. And he said, you know, my, my wife doesn't like me. My daughter doesn't really know who I am. Brian Bates: I don't know my daughter, and I'm one of the wealthiest people in the world. I messed up and, and those are things that, you know, experiences that, you know, are cautionary tales where you say, Hey, what are the important things? Well, you know, I wanna be known as someone who was there and that, you know, had a balanced involvement in my family, right? Brian Bates: That I wasn't, you know, so involved at being a part of their life that I'd neglected giving them, you know, the security of, you know, you know, a good education and, you know, and living in a safe neighborhood and all those things that come with earning a good living, but not so much that, you know, that pursuit that, that I'm known as the workaholic that, you know, how proud are we of dad? Brian Bates: We don't know who he is, but man, he worked his tail to the bone and look at all the things that we have as a result. So, you know, I wanna be known as a good, you know, father and husband and grandfather and and, you know, my parents are still alive, so, you know, definitely I think they would say I'm I turned out pretty good as a son and I, you know, spend a lot of time with them, which they, you know, appreciate more than anything. Brian Bates: My my career, I wanted to be known as somebody that helped people get where they wanted to go. That, you know, provided a place that, that could, you know, really be proud of what they did for a living that they could be proud of the organization that they worked for and that they that they admired. Brian Bates: You know, me as a as a, you know, person that, you know, stood for, good and principles had cared probably more than, you know, people thought I should care about people in the company. And, you know, that's easy to say. There's times where I think, you know, to me, I know I'm probably in, in the right place when people are saying, yeah, you know what, that person doesn't deserve to to be in this company, hasn't done something to, you know, like a capital, hey, that, you know, sin of they stole or they, you know, devalued a customer or something like that. Brian Bates: But just, yeah, you know what, they don't have their stuff together. But you know, Brian. Gave them more grace than they deserved. And I want to be known as somebody who probably expected more than other people thought was possible. Right. And you know, I think, you know, we probably, you know, earned that reputation for sure, you know, amongst a lot of people is that, you know, five years ago they would've said, Hey, it's not possible to do the sort of things that we've done in the last five years. Brian Bates: And I'm sure they're saying some of that about the next five years. Although we might have a little more credibility than we did five years ago, Michael Smith: well fi three stores to 31 in a short period of time. It's quite a testimony. So, you know, that's quite a legacy in the business. You're, you guys are building, do Kent Bullard: you, do you find, oh, sorry, go ahead, Brian. Brian Bates: Oh no, I was just gonna say, you know, to your point about the number of stores I think I would be disappointed if I had two stores and they weren't. They weren't the sort of stores I could be proud of versus you know, having 31 stores. You know, to me it'd be, is it something you can be proud of? Brian Bates: Because I do feel like there are, you know, organizations or, you know, individuals that are going out there and just saying, you know, Hey, look at all. I mean, it's like comparing belt buckles out at the rodeo, you know? I mean, we built scale. We built scale, but it was ugly look. Yeah, exactly right. Brian Bates: Yeah. Yeah. And it and it all boils down when you look at those ugly stories, they always boiled down to how did it impact people? And the stories that people admire are the ones who are like, man, that company grew and, you know, they, we had fun, or their employees had a good time, they earned a good living. Brian Bates: They, you know, they built something special that everybody admired and just, you know, were in awe about, you know, based on all those, you know, the, you know, Christmas parties and the community involvements and the the ability to, you know, help customers, you know, how good their, you know, their customer, their hospitality and their technical expertise, all those sorts of things, right? Brian Bates: Those are the things where you look at it and you go, wow, man, that's a powerful organization, whether it's three stores or 50 stores, right? It could be three stores of, oh my gosh, that place is, I've heard that's a nightmare to work there. They're just abusive to their employees and all those ugly things. Brian Bates: And so, again, to, to the point of our purpose and mission statement the purpose is to make people's lives better. And the mission is to do it at the largest scale possible, while still serving our purpose of making people's lives better. If at some point we're not making people's lives better, or we're, you know, doing, you know, like the scale is tipped of, Hey, you know, we're probably making more lives worse than we are better at that point, it's a failure, right. Michael Smith: But I'm gonna, I'm gonna just recognize what you said. That's phenomenal. You're gonna do it right first, according to your definition of Right. And then scale is multiplication on the back end. But if you can't multiply doing it right, you're not gonna multiply. Right. You have it in order and your soul, which is beautiful. Kent Bullard: I think that answered my question I was gonna ask, 'cause I can see that there's probably some people out there that think, you know, the only way that these people are able to scale and grow these platforms, these organizations is large, is because they took, you know, shortcuts or they lied or they cheated and did these things. Kent Bullard: How do you feel or what are your thoughts on maintaining your values and principles as you scale? And I think you somewhat answered that, but I mean, what would you tell the people out there that who might be skeptic about, you know, well, I have to sell my soul in order to be able to attain something like this. Brian Bates: I would go back to diving into your values, right? And really looking at this and saying the money and the growth as a result of doing the right thing. Doing the right thing doesn't result in, or, and making a bunch of money doesn't result in, now we can do the right thing. It, you know, that has to come first. Brian Bates: So, and people have to define what that is for them. I you know, I'm not saying that, hey, you know, that purpose that I've defined for our company is the only true path. I've talked to a lot of business owners and they've got a lot of different purposes. And again, when we start talking about talking to team members and saying, Hey. Brian Bates: Do you really feel like you fit in here? It doesn't mean that person is just a throwaway and you know that they'll never fit in anywhere. It's just, hey, you gotta find a place where you fit in that they believe in, you know, that gives you passion and that, you know, you get energy to, you know, make it to work at eight o'clock or whatnot. Brian Bates: I had a technician, a shop foreman years ago, and he said, he was gonna leave me because he wanted to go work for another company that that were the technicians were extremely competitive and, you know, basically to the point of being cutthroat. But that was where he thrived. He just loved the competition of, Hey, I want to, you know, work by myself. Brian Bates: I don't want to, you know, have lateral support to, you know, be there for my fellow technician. I just wanna bring my cars in, do my work, and show everybody that. I'm the best. And he called it a shark tank, right? He said, Hey, look, that place is a shark tank. And this whole, like, me helping other people out and being a shop foreman just has really taken a lot of my time and it's really like, I'm not happy Kent Bullard: Having listened to your value and your purpose and everything you've talked about, you know, throughout this podcast, it's now glaringly obvious of like how selfish of a mentality that is in per once you have that perspective to say, well, he just wanted to carry about himself and no one else. Kent Bullard: And obviously that person is gonna work themselves out of your organization because you are so driven on helping others. And that takes. You know, relationships that takes connection, that takes effort for someone else's benefit, which is almost the exact opposite of Michael Smith: it. Well, and the team, it's completely selfless. Michael Smith: The team will help you purge too, right? Right. I mean, once you get a team of people who are working as a team and some lone stars over there, star or not they're not gonna put up with that for very long. They're either gonna expect them to step into the team and contribute, or the team's gonna start to push 'em out the front door, so Brian Bates: Right. Brian Bates: Or they'll attract other people that are cutthroat. Right. I mean, those are the only people that will stick around. And yeah and we knew it was gonna be painful, but when he explained it to me that way, I thought, I'm gonna lose a lot of money. But I'm not gonna talk this guy out of leaving. I, you know, I mean, that, that's the last thing I, you know, the I can't make an argument to him. Brian Bates: That was going to get him to stay. Because the only argument would be, Hey look, let's change the culture of this company. And you know, I'll get technicians next to you that are competitive as well and let's just see you guys, you know, fight over the work and you know, cut each other's throats Michael Smith: well, and you're right, the alternative is they stay and then they're kind of a cancer. Michael Smith: And then you know, you don't deal with them and other people can't figure out why you don't deal with them. And then now there's a cultural problem because you believe in teamwork, but you're not building teamwork and you're letting the star sit in the corner and be difficult. And if this toxic thing forms and it, we talk a little bit like cancer in the body and it's like, are you better off letting the cancer remove itself or cutting it out and sending that. Michael Smith: Terribly painful, high performer, right? And it's like watching the money walk out the front door. But what you replace them with is somebody who fits and the team tightens up and helps each other more, and they more than replace themselves. It's just hard to watch that high producer walk out the front door and wish you could change it. Michael Smith: It's like there goes the money in the short run, Rick, Brian Bates: If you've been in this industry long enough, you've had, and this guy really wasn't a prima donna. I mean, he really tried to do this. He just came to the realization that he was trying to be somebody who he wasn't, and he needed to go work somewhere else. Brian Bates: And I agreed with him. And I still see I saw him probably a couple weeks ago at a party that you know, was being held by a friend of mine that, you know, worked on our team and invited me to his birthday party. But still now, I mean, I still like the guy. He just he isn't a fit, right? Brian Bates: I mean, he is. Great technician. And and he was trying to be somebody that he wasn't he didn't become toxic, anything like that. It was just one of those things where I just looked at it and said, man, these guys are hard to find and this is gonna hurt. But but at any rate, you know, that's, I think when you look at people, back to your point, Michael, when you said, Hey, look, we're not gonna give you a character reference, but we give you a reference when somebody leaves the team. Brian Bates: You know, somebody, so if he was asking for a reference to a company that said, Hey, you know, we hire sharks. I would be like, man, this guy is perfect, too unique. He's gonna fit this, he's a great Kent Bullard: way, he's gonna fit right in. And it's not, and it's not to disparage him in any sense. You know, I said selfish, but really you've got, if you've got two purposes or two, you know, directional ideologies and you're starting to split those, I mean, that, that's gonna cause friction in where you're going. Kent Bullard: And really what you're looking for is that unification of purpose. Right. Not to say that his purpose is bad or negative or anything, because I could see good businesses being built off of that. Well, we are competitive at being the best. And that's what it looks like, right? Brian Bates: Yep. Well, that's one of the first, times I listen to Mike speak. He talked about the Evergreen study in Harvard, and they is that is the Evergreen study, right? Oh yeah. The Evergreen Michael Smith: project. Evergreen study, absolutely. Yep. Brian Bates: Yep. And they they talked about alignment principle alignment, and that if the people on your team are not aligned with your values, then they're not a good fit. Brian Bates: And when you truly get that synergy, it's when people align with your values and, you know, then you start building this culture that's based on, you know, those values and principles and purpose and whatnot. And that's really where you start, you know, picking up momentum. And again, it just, you know, that, that was probably, you know, in, at that phase of my business, when I needed to go from three and beyond stores, that was a defining moment for me. Brian Bates: Was realizing that, hey, I'm hiring people based on their technical ability and they're coming in and it's completely dysfunctional because they don't all believe the same values. And and I was, you know, just running around, putting fires out and, you know, dealing with, you know, Michael said, you know, I would, you know, go in and try to fix something and leave, and somebody was undermining me in a conversation by the water cooler. Brian Bates: And I mean, that sort of stuff you know, is very destructive. It's, you know, triangulation. I mean, you know, I know a lot more now than I did back then, and I can recognize it very quickly now and just say, Hey, this person needs to understand what they're doing is destructive. And when they understand that if they continue to do it, that person is gone. Brian Bates: I don't care if that's our lead technician at the shop or not. We've, we have hired people based on gossip. Good technicians too. But we refuse to let technicians of any level come in and divide our team by gossiping and you know, talking smack about other people, we let 'em know we, we give them, you know, more warnings than we probably should, but in the end, if they're just hell bent on gossiping and disparaging other team members or myself, or, you know, leadership or the company in general, then you know, hey, you know, let me give you a reference to our competition. Brian Bates: You can go do that there, Michael Smith: as I've heard you say, you promote them to customers, so Brian Bates: Yeah. Give them, release them to the industry so. Kent Bullard: I love that. I love to kind of step into somewhat of a lightning round here. Okay. This has been a phenomenal conversation, but I wanna jump into a lightning round. Kent Bullard: All right. Just a few questions and we'll dive into those. First question, what's a piece of advice that you once received that you now find invaluable? Brian Bates: Invaluable? I would like to give two, two pieces of advice. One was when I was in high school, I wanted to be a veterinarian, and I interviewed as part of a class, kind of, you know, career day project. Brian Bates: We were, we spent a day with a professional that we, you know, aspired to be. And I asked our local veterinarian who we'd been bringing our animals to for years. So it kind of, you know, formed a relationship with them. Some questions and one of I forget the question that I asked, but one of his answers was, you need to learn to love learning. Brian Bates: And he just, you know, and that has always stuck with me that and I feel like the flip side of that, that he was cautioning me against was don't become complacent and stop growing. And, you know, stop learning that, you know, you will reach a high level of success if you really enjoy learning. Brian Bates: Not just do it because it's a chore, but just really love the whole idea of learning. And you know, and I try to. The other day I was at the grocery store and I saw a pomegranate and I'm like, like, I've never bought a pomegranate before. What the heck is, you know, how do you eat a pomegranate? I don't know. Brian Bates: And so I took it home and I couldn't really find any good answers on YouTube, or I just cut it and I threw it in a juicer and it tasted terrible. And I realized that it's just the seeds, right? It's like nobody eats the pomegranate and they just eat the seeds. And when I figured that out, I was like, oh, they're pretty good. Brian Bates: I don't know if they're worth the effort of digging 'em out, but they're pretty good once you get 'em separated. But those are the sort of things, I mean, just small things all the way to like, how do, I mean, we're in we're in sponsored by investors in a larger group that that we formed with five other businesses that came outta the institute and or for others rather, but. Brian Bates: Like, how do we operate and grow this to a I mean, I've read books about growing the business to a billion dollar a year business. And and it's possible, you know, I mean, we could we're we're certainly in those sort of circles that can help us grow to where we could be, you know. Brian Bates: Billion dollar a year business. So, so to me that, that's the first set of piece of advice is no matter where I've been, I've always just like known that there's something else to learn and I wanna learn it and have fun at it. Like the pomegranate thing was a kind of a pain in the butt. I made a big mess, but it was like, it was just fun learning about pomegranates. Brian Bates: Right. And then the second set of advice was when I was getting my degree, I had not yet committed to the fact that I was going to be in the automotive industry for my career. And I was talking to my mentor at the dealership, his name was Chuck, and he's from Texas. And he'd had a very interesting career. Brian Bates: He had worked on cars as a young man and then had a. Then went into the business of selling satellites when the satellites in the eighties used to be these huge, you know, dishes that took up, you know, a quarter of your yard in the backyard. And and then he, you know, he he did some other some other, you know, things here and there, but he kept getting pulled back into the automotive industry and and then just found a passion for it eventually. Brian Bates: And he said, you know, as I was talking about some of the options that I could do, as, as you know, I was getting close to getting my degree, he said excuse me. He said, you know, Brian, let me give you some advice. You're a car guy, you'll always be a car guy. And the sooner that you accept that, the more successful you'll be. Brian Bates: If you try to get out of this industry, you'll realize that this industry. Has a lot more opportunity than most anything you'll find outside of this industry. And you're very talented in this industry. So save yourself the trouble and put your head down and make the most of this opportunity and it'll treat you well. Brian Bates: And and he was right. You know, I think that the automotive industry is, it's always just been a solid industry with tons of opportunity and something that I think a lot of people look at all of the, you know, the pain that is, that can come out of this industry and it can cloud. The opportunity and the the good things that are in this industry that that you can't find anywhere else. Brian Bates: Or if you do it might come with, you know, a lot of baggage that, you know, really drowns it out as well. So, so those are the two bits of advice. Great Kent Bullard: advice, kind of, kind of making the most outta the opportunity that's already there right in front of you. Right. Make your own grass green. Brian Bates: Yeah. Kent Bullard: Picking Brian Bates: your Kent Bullard: purpose. Brian Bates: Well, and there's the saying, right? The grass is green where you water it. And so, and you know, no matter where you go, there you are, that the challenges are usually in the mirror, right? The reason you're probably not happy is because, you know, the person in the mirror. Brian Bates: It's not because of your situation or lack of opportunity, you know, you know, opportunity to do something that you have passion over whatnot. It's just like the way you're looking at things or the way you're approaching things, that's where your frustration is born from those areas, not. Brian Bates: Because there's I'm gonna say this. You may or may not leave it in your podcast, but I read a book and there's this book that I, or this quote that I read and I memorized it because it was like, man, that is, that's just sums up so much. But it was written, I think in the late 18 hundreds by an English guy, and he said the fountain of content must spring from within because he who has such little knowledge of human natures to try to change anyone's disposition other than his own, will end his life in fruitless efforts and multiply that which he proposes to remove. Brian Bates: And it's like, absolutely. It's such a powerful quote. I mean, it's, man, I read it in that book. Mm-hmm. And I was just like. Man, I've gotta memorize that because it's so true. You can't go around trying to change other people. And that happiness comes from, you know, from inside. It doesn't come from everything outside. Brian Bates: It comes from within you. And it's about your perspective and how you view things. And seeing the glass is half full and deciding that you're going to be positive and that you're gonna bring energy and be in a fountain, not a drain. All those things, right? And if you try to, you know, go around by finding happiness, by changing other people, all you're going to do is make things worse and end your life, you know, waste your life. Brian Bates: And make things worse. Right. So, anyways, that that's one of my favorite quotes. I love Kent Bullard: that. Brian Bates: My favorite quote and, Kent Bullard: you know, learn to love learning. I wrote from pomegranates to private equity, you know, second lightning round question, you know, question lightning round. Brian Bates: I don't know if I'm making it lightning for you, for a crock pot round. Kent Bullard: How do you define success today and how has that definition shifted over time? Brian Bates: Wow. You know, we Michael and I, as we were working on changing our culture, I read a book and this guy is saying, or he had asserted something in the book that everybody goes through. Phases in their life. And there's three main phases, and that is survival, success, and significance. Brian Bates: And I think in each one of those phases, there's a success right there. There's a defining or definition of success. So when I first started in my business, the success was I'm surviving. And and you know that I was proud of that, right? I mean, but if I had gone 20 years and people said, Hey, how are you doing in business? Brian Bates: Well, we survived another year. I. I wouldn't define that as success, but in that first phase, you know, those first two or three years, survival was a level of success. And then success, right? That's the, hey, we're growing, we're, you know, we're making good, you know, revenue, able to buy, you know, a nicer car than I had before. Brian Bates: You know, take some nice vacations, that sort of thing. Able to employ, you know, people and give them opportunity and help customers. And we're known as the one of the top shops in the area to bring your vehicle. I mean, we've, we're gaining that reputation. So all those things, defining success as a small business. Brian Bates: And it was like, wow, man, this is great. So when we achieved that, that was to me that was success. I would define that as success. And now, you know. We're in this significance phase where we say, okay, we obviously know how to survive and we know how to be successful. And you can't just disregard those two things and say, Hey, you know, we're going to now move into significance. Brian Bates: They just, you know, they're at odds with each other for one, but you still, you have to build upon, you can't just, you know, walk through and then di discard that phase as you're going through. So at any rate, you know, knowing that we're very successful and we know what a successful, how a successful business should run and maintaining that success. Brian Bates: And then also moving into using that success as a way to be significant in a lot of aspects of you know, the industry and in the community and my personal life and, you know, professional life and friends and, you know, just that whole wheel of life. That's really how I would define, you know, success moving forward. Brian Bates: Right? And at some point you know, everybody exits their career either, you know, horizontally or vertically. I'm hoping, you know, vertically is is how I exit. But you know, when we get through or I get through to the point where I say, you know, Hey I was successful in this significant phase, I feel like it'll be that. Brian Bates: I was able to develop people to run the business and to have the opportunity to run that bus, you know, the business, whatever, you know, phase it's in when I decide to to walk away. And that the business continues on and that, you know, there's a there's a tempered emotion that comes out of it. Brian Bates: One, one of not, you know, I don't want a an emotion of, thank God that metal fart finally moved on. Right. You know, it's a, he should have moved on years ago. But I don't want people to go, oh my gosh, how are we gonna survive without him? Right? I want that level of success to be, man. He accomplished a lot of great things and did so much and prepared us. Brian Bates: And gave us so much, you know, opportunity to grow and to learn and to be successful in this industry. And I wanna accomplish those sorts of things. And, you know, not these exact same things, but those sorts of things in my career that I can look back on and say, well, I'm really proud of that. Brian Bates: And that people will say that, you know, he did a good job in this industry and added a lot of value to it. So that's, you know, I mean, when I look at legacy and success, to me it, it has some somewhat of that feel, right? I mean, as I'm going through, it starts, you know, forming and shape, you know, becoming a certain shape and color and light as. Brian Bates: The more I go into, you know, my career, I always look at, you know, my life or my career, whatever is this blank canvas and you know. Bob Ross used to be that guy on PBS that had the big hair. And my mom loved to be happy Little Michael Smith: picture, right? Brian Bates: Yeah. And he would make a mistake. It's like, oh, there's a happy little mistake. Brian Bates: And then all of a sudden it's like, holy cow, man, that like, it looks like he meant to put it in there even though he's, oops. And who knows if he did it on accident or or did it on purpose to try to make it look like an accident. But there's a lot of accidents that I've made in my life that I look back on. Brian Bates: It's like, man, I'm glad I made that accident. And that just paints a that, that's that, you know, rock that's, you know, that looked like initially, boy that's a mistake. Oops. Didn't you know it was supposed to be a bush And, you know, I didn't do it right now. Looks like a rock. And now, you know, you build this painting around there and then, you know, you look at the finished painting, you go, man, that mistake, you know, looks like it was meant to be. Brian Bates: Right. So, Michael Smith: well, I'll Brian Bates: say those are if Michael Smith: you let me speak just for a second into your significance comment. You, as long as I've known you have been focused on. Deriving meaning and putting meaning in front of what you're doing and bringing people along with you. And I'll say it, a hundred employees, I'm gonna guess that if they're all reasonably stable and you don't have any more of those cowboys or cowgirls out there trying to do their own thing, that's 101 multiplication of what you've got in your hand. Michael Smith: Now, of leaders and team members who are meaning driven they're focused on significance in the work that they do and the contribution that you guys make to your customers and to your communities, and that, that multiplication model is profound, right? It's not just about success taking home a paycheck or survival, whew, we survived another day. Michael Smith: Right? You guys are in a different level than most businesses, period. And in our industry, it's an extraordinary. Level and you're multiplying. The bigger you guys get, the more people you bring with you that fit, that, the more they're empowered to walk out. Whether you go out and I hope you go out vertical or yeah, vertical. Michael Smith: I wanna go out that way too, right? Let's go out and do something on the backside together. But you know, when you're out of it and those people are still in it and they're still making a contribution, that they're not making a survival contribution anymore, they're not making a success. They're in the meaning zone. Michael Smith: They're in the significant zone, and they've got a hundred and 150 or more people out there spreading meaning. In the world. And that's really a profound legacy that we're talking about here. That's a huge contribution that you guys have made and what's important to you. I just, I didn't want that to go by without really telling you how powerful I think that is. Michael Smith: So Brian Bates: it's extremely powerful and I think if anybody people were to take one thing out of this podcast, I would say that's, I mean, if you're looking for the secret that's a huge part of it. If it's not the secret it's a huge part of it. The power of saying, Hey, it's not about money. It's about the, what the money represents. Brian Bates: The money represents what we're doing. And the more we do the right thing, the more people pay us to do it right. They patronize our business. They support us and and they buy more from us which allows us to continue to grow. Whereas I, you know, I hear like we just, we hired a gal. She's actually, it's interesting. Brian Bates: We were looking at the recruiting component and we decided rather than hire a recruiter to bring more people in, let's look at where the holes are in our bucket and let's seal those up and make it, you know, as a stable, a bucket as possible. Meaning that instead of seeing our bucket and saying, we've got a lot of holes in the bucket and we're leaking water, everybody has turnover in their company. Brian Bates: Right? I feel like our turnover is pretty low, but I still feel like, Hey, you know, we could do a better job. There's people that you know, have probably left or that, you know, we've we've, you know, parted ways with that. Probably it was because of what we were doing, not or our environment or something that we weren't doing was the reason why they left. Brian Bates: And so we hired a what we labeled our team development manager and that person. Comes in and has career discussions with our team members make sure that they're onboarded properly, they understand all the purpose of the business and all those things that right now it's becoming difficult for us to really, you know, make sure that there, there's a solid foundation there. Brian Bates: So as we saw that starting to kind of wobble, we said, Hey, we need to hire somebody who's dedicated. It means so much that we dedicated somebody to say. This is, you know, where, you know what the company stands for. Make sure that they understand the values and that they align with those values. And now, where do you want to go in this career? Brian Bates: Where do you want to go in this company? Let's bring our, you know, our training resources, everything into your, you know, to you so that you can grow as a person in a profession and what roadblocks are in your way. And give 'em the feedback to those managers, those leaders that are there to serve and to remove roadblocks so that people can perform at their highest level. Brian Bates: So, at any rate the the idea that we're chasing money, the person that we hired said that they left a company because they were they were focused on making money. They were moving towards a very sales organized or sales centric culture instead of a people culture. And and we we agree with the philosophy that we're in the hospitality industry, right? Brian Bates: And that's not just hospitality for our customers, but also for people on the team. And what hospitality means is just that experience, that full experience, not just the transaction. Like you can go to Motel six and get a bed and a shower and all those things, right? Or you can go to the Ritz Carlton or the Four Seasons. Brian Bates: There's a super big difference in, in the price that you will pay, but people pay it for the experience, the hospitality. And not that we're looking to, you know, blow people away and overdo it with our hospitality. But we also want to know that, hey, look, the hospitality is extremely important. Brian Bates: And so for us, and I think as you grow any business grows more and more. If you start really focusing on those numbers, then you will have people that will become discouraged about that and say, Hey, look, this is all about the money. All they care about is the money. And if you let that creep into your business you're in for trouble. Brian Bates: Because the people that stay know, you know, they will have decided that the way to get recognized in this company is to make more money for the company and generate revenue. And so we we constantly, I don't think you can say it enough. It's not, it's like saying, you know, I love you in a marriage. Brian Bates: You know, you don't just say, Hey, I love you. When you get married and then say, if anything changes, I'll let you know. You know, just know once a year on your Michael Smith: anniversary Brian Bates: one more time. Right. But it's it's the same thing about the revenue is a representation of the experience that the customer has. Brian Bates: And part of that experience is connecting with a customer and understanding them and having them feel like they're cared for and they're not just a number, and you're not just, you know, targeting their wallet, you're targeting, you know, their needs as a customer and serving them. So when we celebrate a record month or you know, a great day or you know, a, you know, any sort of achievement or whatnot, we always recognize the behavior that goes into that. Brian Bates: Right? It's like, Hey, this is a result. You know, the stats here the score at the end of a football game is representative of how they played the game and we're not. You know, we're, when teams take the field, they know they have to put points on the board in order to score, but they also know how they have to come together as a team and the actions that it takes in order to score those points. Brian Bates: Otherwise they'd be. Going to the hardware store to get a ladder to climb up to the scoreboard to start, you know, putting points on the board, right? And so it's not about putting points on the board, it's what those points represent. And that's the the thing that makes people admire games and admire the people that win at those games is what it takes, the work and the effort that it takes to win that game. Brian Bates: So, so at any rate, you know, again, if people take anything away from this podcast I hope they, they realize that's the key, right? Is the power of having that purpose and understanding that this is the reason why we're in business and it's something more noble than, you know, fixing cars and being the best repair shop in town. Brian Bates: I mean, that's, it should be something that inspires the higher level that you develop that purpose and create it, and then reinforce it and bring other people onto your crusade. The higher level people you get, you don't get the people that are like, Hey, I just want to be the best and I wanna work in a shark tank and you know, we're gonna be the best shop and I'm gonna be the best person in the best shop you want to be. Brian Bates: Hey, you know, and if that's what you want, then that's that's fine. But for us. That purpose of, you know, making other people's lives better and growing our influence and growing the company based on doing that at, you know, a larger and larger level is something that has has been really fun for us. Michael Smith: Well, I'll tell you, you know, you you're walk and talk and testimony is that you guys are building a skyscraper and you're gonna have 31 floors on it here soon, and there's more in the pipeline behind that, right. As an idea. And every rockstar you bring in is another iron steel pillar. That you put in the ground at the foundation and the fact that you've doubled down on your investment by having the focus be their intake and their cultural alignment and their development and the strengthening of them. Michael Smith: It's almost like you're getting these giant rockstar pillars and then you're deep, you're embedding them deep in concrete, and the stronger your foundation comes of this stuff, the more floors you can put on it, the more floors you can put on it. And it's, I mean, the you're investing in what you believe in and it's a beautiful thing to watch it succeed and grow and get stronger and taller and higher. Michael Smith: And it's impressive indeed. You can see it from a long way away at this point. A lot of people watching you. So congratulations. You guys are killing it. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Brian, this has been such a fulfilling. Conversation just jam packed with value. You kinda answered my final question, which is what message would you leave for somebody who is pursuing to do what you are doing? Kent Bullard: And I think, you know, I wrote down here do what inspires. I think that's something you said and I think that speaks to everything that you've discussed today. And I just, I truly want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this with just me on a personal level. I've got a lot out of this and definitely spoken to some parts of myself. Kent Bullard: So I thank you very much for that. Yeah, Brian Bates: I I love sharing and helping, helping people. But I also think that gives me the or at least opens the door to learn from other people. And and the one thing that I always loved about going to the the bot or the peer groups the gear groups that you guys have is just getting with other owners and just knowing that it could be the guy that opened his shop two weeks ago, or the guy that has been running a shop for 40 years, but they're, I was gonna learn something from somebody. Brian Bates: Right? And and I just always, I learned, well, I hadn't always learned, but through my experience, I learned that you just don't discount anybody that has anything to say or whatnot because everybody's has their own experience. And whether they're running a John Deere shop out in the middle of, you know, Kansas, or they're running some, you know, high euro shop in the middle of San Francisco, there's a, you know, there's something that they know that will help you in your business, right? Brian Bates: I mean, if they're successful in business, it's not because they don't know what they're doing. They've figured something out that probably will help me to bring value to the people that are working in our stores, right? So it's it's, I don't know. Like I said, that's the passion that I developed with just business. Brian Bates: And it doesn't matter whether you're running a. Plumbing business or you know, you know, medical supply business or whatnot. It's all about leadership and, you know, really serving other people through those principles because everything rises and falls in leadership. I mean, it, you know, you can see it time and time again where you go into a location that's struggling and this place lacks leadership. Brian Bates: Or you go into a place that you know is struggling and then you put the right leader in there and it just takes off almost on day one and you go, yeah, that's the power of leadership. Right. So, Kent Bullard: well, Brian, thank you so much for the time. Those of you who have been listening, again, if you have any questions or comments about the stuff we covered today, if you'd like to learn more again, comments below and you can find more information at, we are the institute.com. Kent Bullard: Brian, thank you so much. Michael Smith: Thank you my friend. Kent Bullard: President of ESA Tire and Auto. It's been a pleasure. Brian Bates: Yeah, it's a pleasure's been mine. Thank you guys for having me on. Michael Smith: Take care, my friend. Yep.  

190 -Ask Me Anything: What Your P&L Is Really Telling You: Reading Your P&L Without the BS February 04, 2026 - 01:02:24   Show Summary: Cecil Bullard and Eric Joern break down why most shop P&Ls are confusing unreliable and overloaded with noise. They explain how inconsistent accounting practices distort margins and decision making, and why clean consistent structure matters more than perfect numbers. The discussion covers matching income to costs using accrual principles reducing unnecessary detail and using trends to spot real problems. This episode gives shop owners a clearer way to read their financials with confidence and control.   Host(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Guest: Eric Joern, CPA, CM&AA, AAM, KAIZEN CPAs + Advisors Show Highlights: [00:00:02] – Why profit and loss statements matter for shop owners [00:01:02] – Accurate P&Ls are rare and usually misunderstood [00:02:22] – Accounting opinions create confusion and inconsistent reporting [00:05:33] – Frankenstein P&Ls make performance comparisons impossible [00:06:49] – Structure income and costs to clearly see gross profit [00:10:33] – Long P&Ls cause decision fatigue and hide key issues [00:14:15] – Misclassified wages distort margins and financial reality [00:19:30] – Inventory purchases should not destroy monthly profitability [00:26:19] – Every part and car needs accountability to prevent losses [00:45:54] – Clean current financials matter more than fixing the past   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/J-qbi8HoMLE Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript:   00:00:02:02 - 00:00:13:11 Cecil Bullard Welcome to ask Me Anything. Today I have, with me, Eric Joern. If I, if I mispronounced it. Eric, just correct me. 00:00:13:14 - 00:00:14:12 Eric Joern You got it. 00:00:14:14 - 00:00:42:25 Cecil Bullard From Kaizen, CPA. They do. Accounting. And, you have an awful lot of our clients. Yep. Which many of those we have recommended because accounting is so bad out there. So. So you guys do a good job. Yeah. So today we're going to we're going to start out kind of by talking about profit loss, profit loss statements and why they might be important. 00:00:42:25 - 00:01:02:05 Cecil Bullard And, of course, if you're out there, and you would like to ask a question or if you have any kind of a question at all, you want to do that, please put it in the comments. Rawley will be taking care of that for us. And, making sure we get those questions so we can get him answer. 00:01:02:07 - 00:01:26:20 Cecil Bullard Let me let me start out here, Eric. I always make this kind of comment I have seen, I don't know, 10,000 pals in my life. And, and, I can count on one hand the number of pals that I've seen that are actually accurate. Well done. And give us the information we need, at least in the beginning. 00:01:26:22 - 00:01:39:26 Cecil Bullard Yeah. What? Why? Why is it so? I don't know, why is it so bad out there where there's so much inaccuracy and so much confusion around the profit and loss statement? 00:01:39:28 - 00:02:01:10 Eric Joern Yeah. You know, sometimes sometimes we have that we have that same question. But when we think about it right, there's a lot of moving pieces to generate a good financial statement. So first you have to have the right systems and processes set up. Then you have to have a you have the owner side or whoever's getting the data, collecting the data, doing the things right. 00:02:01:10 - 00:02:21:29 Eric Joern So is my shop management system accurate? How am I paying my bills? How am I running payroll? Am I using the right payroll software? Are those things happening correctly? When I'm collecting things right, do I or how often do I go to the bank and deposit cash and checks and do things like that? There's all these input factors that go into an accounting hub. 00:02:22:01 - 00:02:48:18 Eric Joern And then across that there are all sorts of different theories on accounting, right. Accounting really isn't black and white, right. Our job is to show economic reality for that business. So we need to show what actually is happening. Well that's opinionated right. And that's why, you know, the institute has a specific way that they like to look at a PNL versus maybe, you know, Joe Schmo, CPA on the street. 00:02:48:19 - 00:02:55:08 Eric Joern Right. And and probably their goal is what's the easiest way for me to file tax return? And, you know. 00:02:55:08 - 00:03:19:01 Cecil Bullard You know that. Oh go ahead. I think that that. So first of all, you're making it seem like it's very complicated, very hard. I don't I don't see it that way myself. So that that might be somewhere where I disagree with you. My my accountant. You know, we have a CFO in the company. And, you know, if we had an outside of B, you guys. 00:03:19:03 - 00:03:55:26 Cecil Bullard But, they are tied into our bank accounts. So they see payments coming and going. They're tied into our credit cards, so they see payments coming and going. So all deposits are kind of recorded through the bank account. All, all outgoing moneys go through one account or another. And as well as credit. And then once we, once we determine what the PNL needs to be set up like, and we create, what we chart of accounts for that. 00:03:55:28 - 00:04:17:08 Cecil Bullard Exactly. Then it it seems to be like it's not overly complicated at that point. Right? And I would agree with you that I don't think I would disagree in the, in the fact that the numbers are going to say what the numbers say. I don't I don't think that we can like say, okay, well, that that number is not what I want. 00:04:17:08 - 00:04:46:12 Cecil Bullard So I'm going to go see if I can find another number. But, but certainly the institute likes to look at the finances differently than maybe, some of it's running, I don't know, a shoe store would look at their finances. And so that is probably challenging for you guys in the fact that you have, you know, different types of companies you work with that, you know, might look a little different than they might be for automotive. 00:04:46:15 - 00:05:05:29 Eric Joern Yeah. And there's a lot of noise, right? So, so if you go out, you know, you go out into the Facebook groups and say, how should I have my pal there going to somebody's going to give them one direction and then they're going to go to their accountant, they're going to get a different direction, and then they're going to go to the institute or their coaching company, and they're going to get a different direction. 00:05:06:01 - 00:05:16:26 Eric Joern And all that noise makes it really hard for them to, you know, what do I exactly do? Right. I, I need services or cost of goods. 00:05:16:28 - 00:05:18:00 Cecil Bullard At the. 00:05:18:02 - 00:05:19:19 Eric Joern Road. My wage. 00:05:19:21 - 00:05:20:22 Cecil Bullard Is. 00:05:20:24 - 00:05:26:20 Eric Joern Right. So I need to set up like this or that. We see. 00:05:26:20 - 00:05:33:00 Cecil Bullard A lot of that noise that is causing issues. And so we actually see sometimes, when their financial statements. 00:05:33:04 - 00:05:56:01 Eric Joern Almost Frankenstein, I'd say, meaning they brought in areas from different, different avenues and they put it all together. They said, oh, I like this idea. I'm going to implement this. I like this idea. I'm going to implement it this way. And then half of it's right here and half of it's here. And one of the things that we always say is, I'd rather have a financial statement that's consistently wrong than sometimes right. 00:05:56:03 - 00:06:14:16 Eric Joern And I know that's a weird comment to make, but think about it. We're always measuring performance based on relativity, right? Did I improve from this from this prior measurement point? Well, if I'm constantly changing how I measure, I'm never going to have a relative measurement. 00:06:14:19 - 00:06:49:04 Cecil Bullard But that's also probably one of the more difficult things for you guys is that, you know, whenever we we've changed accounting a couple of times in our business, you know, in the unknown, 15 years or so we've been in business, we've gone through, I think we're on our third different accounting. And every time it's like, well, we want to use QuickBooks and I want to use sage, and, and so we, we want to reset up and, and so if I'm not set up correctly in the first place, then I come in and I go, okay, I want to get set up this way. 00:06:49:06 - 00:07:23:29 Cecil Bullard I might be getting different numbers are looking at different numbers than I had previously. Which got a good challenge, right? Absolutely. At the Institute for automotive, the way that I learned it was I want to have, as my income, any income source that I have that's over, say, 2% of what I do in business. So if I'm if I'm selling, if 10% of my business is tires, I want to have a tire income separated out from labor income and parts income. 00:07:23:29 - 00:07:53:03 Cecil Bullard And then if there's a sublet income, I want to have sublet. And if there's, if I'm doing something like, some states we've got smog or we've got, safety, I want to I want to bring that income different because those things have different margins that I want to be able to look at. And so I want to have a relatively, I don't know, maybe 7 or 8 category sales taxes in there, but it's a pass through. 00:07:53:03 - 00:08:16:27 Cecil Bullard So, but it still has to be accounted for in income. And then underneath that, and I think you have an example of a PNL that we can kind of pull apart here. But underneath that I want to have the same categories, as my variable expense. And, and that way I can see what my gross profit is. 00:08:17:00 - 00:08:28:04 Cecil Bullard And I'm trying to make sure that my parts profit is right, that my labor profit is right, that my sublet profit is right. So that at the end I have the right gross profit. 00:08:28:06 - 00:08:48:07 Eric Joern Exactly right. I mean, if we want to step back and say, hey, our our core framework for a good chart of accounts on a PNL is going to be I'm if I have a sales category, I should only have a corresponding cost of goods category for that. So if I had a sales category and I have no cost of goods, right. 00:08:48:07 - 00:09:12:16 Eric Joern Is that truly a a operational revenue item, or is that maybe what we call other income? Right. Miscellaneous income that, you know, for instance, if we have an investment account, right, and we're getting capital gains and dividends and fun things like that, we're not going to report that. Or maybe I sell, maybe I, you know, customer doesn't pay their bill and I keep their car and then I resell that. 00:09:12:18 - 00:09:14:15 Eric Joern Well, the gain that I. 00:09:14:18 - 00:09:25:13 Cecil Bullard Wouldn't you handle that as, more on the balance sheet and then bring that in under the net profit as a additional income or a, additional loss or whatever. 00:09:25:13 - 00:09:47:06 Eric Joern Under exactly non-operating, gain or loss on the sale of, of something. Right. And it kind of goes back to your 2%. Right? If it's not greater than 2%. We're creating distractions by adding that up into sales. And that's really one of the things that I like to focus on is, is we'll see a piano. And I mean, you've reviewed 10,000, right? 00:09:47:06 - 00:09:51:21 Eric Joern I believe that's considered mastery when you, when you, when you hit 10,000. 00:09:51:27 - 00:09:53:21 Cecil Bullard Yeah. 00:09:53:23 - 00:10:16:17 Eric Joern And what we see is, what ends up happening is there's a lot of noise added to a piano. And what I call by noises. We have accounts and we have all these accounts added and all these things which in one respect, I understand. Right. I want to know if if you know, somebody is charging me more than they charged me the month before, do I think my piano per vendor should be per vendor to review that? 00:10:16:17 - 00:10:21:04 Eric Joern Absolutely not. Right. Because then we start missing the big picture. I'll go. 00:10:21:04 - 00:10:33:07 Cecil Bullard Into, I can't imagine, like, looking at all that data. Yeah. I mean, it would be there would be no way to really bring it all together and try to figure it out. 00:10:33:09 - 00:10:51:15 Eric Joern I'm an accountant. This is what I do for a living. And if I'm looking at a piano that's 5 or 10 pages long, I'm lost. I'm burned out through part of it because you can only process some, Jeff Bezos, I think it was once said, if I can come in and make three good decisions in a day, that's a great day. 00:10:51:18 - 00:10:55:04 Cecil Bullard Yeah, I don't I don't think I disagree with that at all. 00:10:55:06 - 00:11:14:29 Eric Joern And if you can look at a if you if you're looking at it and I think about it on the same, same way with your piano, right. If, if it's 5 or 10 pages long and it has all this detail on it. Right, making a determination on each individual account, is it almost like a decision and you're going to get fatigued after so many of them. 00:11:15:01 - 00:11:45:12 Cecil Bullard But you have a, you have a, an expanded piano and you have a, I don't know, simplified a simplified piano, which is usually a page and a half to two and a half pages at the most to simplify this. Great. And, that's how I want to kind of see my business. I mean, I want to see my business in chunks, you know, what what was my income was my direct expense for that. 00:11:45:14 - 00:12:08:19 Cecil Bullard And then what was my net profit? And then what are my different categories? I think in we have a thing called a composite, which is different than a PNL. It takes, point of sale data and PNL data and kind of puts them together and makes the decisions for us. Does the math. Yeah, right. So how much did we lose because we weren't productive? 00:12:08:19 - 00:12:37:06 Cecil Bullard Oh, we lost $17,043 this month, right. What was our average repair order? Oh, it was, know, $1,059.83. So I think that you want to look at your kind of in chunks, I look at I look at the income. Did the income match the income that we our goals and targets. Then I look at the expense. 00:12:37:06 - 00:12:57:20 Cecil Bullard And the only reason I'm really looking at the direct expense is because I want to know profit margins in certain areas, because I'm. I know what the margins ought to be. Right. Yeah. And then then I'm looking at my overall gross profit. Did I, did I, you know, depending on how I, my PNL is set up, is it you know, 64%. 00:12:57:20 - 00:13:20:04 Cecil Bullard Is it 74%. And, and then I go to the bottom line and I look at net before I go through everything else. Right? Did I make my 20% net profit? Bottom line is that, you know, is that does that make sense? Is that how you do it or is it would you recommend a different way to look at that. 00:13:20:06 - 00:13:53:06 Eric Joern Yeah. Yeah. No no that's a a great way. And I'll, I'll give you an example. So I will review our QC before our, our client's financials gets out of our onboarding process, which is our creation process for somebodies accounting process system. To our production team IQ. See all those financials. And the other day I was reviewing one and I looked service advisor cost and technician wages were at significantly low margins, or high margins. 00:13:53:08 - 00:14:15:02 Eric Joern The costs were very low. And it made me question, hey, how are they accomplishing this? I think I think tech cost was around 20% of tech labor or, tux labor sales. And the service advisor cost was around 3%. Well, then I go into the operating expense section, and we have some other roles in there, like a shop shop manager and shop foreman. 00:14:15:04 - 00:14:34:18 Eric Joern So that made me ask, go back and ask my team. I said, okay, I know they told you that. That's what these roles are. Now we need to ask the next question, are they in production roles? Right? Is my shop is my shop foreman. Are they are they producing billable labor hours? Because if they are, then they need to be included up in tech wages. 00:14:34:21 - 00:14:56:14 Eric Joern And same thing with my my store manager. Right. If they're performing a role of a service advisor, well then they need to be included with the service advisor. And all of a sudden when you move those wages up now we're more at realistic category or ratios. Right? Our gross profit looks a little bit more to what I'd expect. 00:14:56:16 - 00:15:16:15 Eric Joern And and it's a very different skill to look at a financial statement to, to expect what it should be than it is to say, I'm going to put the inputs in. And I think if I put the inputs in, it comes out right. You have to review a financial statement. What's the thinking of what should it look like? 00:15:16:17 - 00:15:38:00 Cecil Bullard Well, the I think when you've looked at many, right. There's a point where you say to yourself, okay, this is out of whack, right? This that's and that's the my like my fifth step. Once I've looked at my net, then I'm going, okay, what are the expenses look like, and where are we? Out of whack. 00:15:38:00 - 00:16:03:19 Cecil Bullard Right. If my labor cost is 20% of my labor income, I'm not. I'm either not paying people enough or I'm not accounting for all the income. It's it's somewhere else, right? Exactly. And we we see that all the time. You know, in December, I don't even want to talk about December 11th people, because so much is thrown in different places. 00:16:03:19 - 00:16:05:06 Cecil Bullard But we just cleaned. 00:16:05:06 - 00:16:07:08 Eric Joern Up the tax return. 00:16:07:10 - 00:16:37:19 Cecil Bullard Yeah. It's amazing to me, sometimes how just how badly it is, and what I'm trying to do is figure out, you know, I need something to compare it to so that I can then go. Okay, we've got a problem here right now. I had a $35,000 charge on one of my account, one of my accounts, and we lost, $31,000, and we had, stellar month as far as sales go. 00:16:37:22 - 00:17:13:06 Cecil Bullard And you're trying to figure out, okay, where did that money go? Right. And there was 35,000 for, I think it was there their tax, their property tax, and it was all dumped in in one month in one pile. And then there was another 20,000 in, owner wages because they, they paid the tax. Right. So you see, either a bonus, or a dividend or whatever into the owner wages and you're like, okay, well, you know, we made $25,000. 00:17:13:08 - 00:17:35:17 Cecil Bullard We didn't really lose 34% on this thing. But I think you need, at least for me, when I'm looking at my financials, I need to know that we're profitable. I need to know that we're profitable enough. And I need to be able to point out the two or 3 or 5 areas where we're not hitting the targets the way we need to hit the targets. 00:17:35:22 - 00:18:03:15 Cecil Bullard And so I, I agree with you. I think I, I wouldn't say consistently wrong is better than inconsistent, but I want consistent data and consistent reports. Now here's kind of another thing that I, I like, I like to see my columns, you know, how you have all the here's the categories and then you have here's the income that came in, here's the expense. 00:18:03:18 - 00:18:34:08 Cecil Bullard I let I also like to see, in there a percentage of what the sales was. So, so with the, the number, I like to see the percentage. And then I like to have a second column right next to it. That is last year this month. So I can compare like like data, with the percentages. And then I like to have a third column, which is the last running three months. 00:18:34:10 - 00:19:06:29 Cecil Bullard And the reason I like the last running three months is because these guys, shop owners, do unusual things with how they record stuff like I might buy $10,000 in oil in one month, and instead of putting it in an in the inventory on the balance sheet and then dealing with it in the PNL, as I take it out of inventory, I just put a $10,000 charge, and it looks like parts margin was completely blown this month when it really wasn't. 00:19:06:29 - 00:19:30:12 Cecil Bullard So if I can see a running quarter like three months, it will kind of leverage that average. That stuff out. Do you guys, do you guys recommend that they account for things like $10,000 worth of oil on the balance sheet and not on the PNL? Or how do you recommend that that be done? Yeah. 00:19:30:14 - 00:19:50:22 Eric Joern All right. Deals set up for for parts costing is purchases go to inventory. And when we close a repair order we journal entry the cost into cost of goods. So that's true. True parts costing I mean it's what we we as accountant. Right. And this is what blows my mind. This is what we learned in college at a cost accounting. 00:19:50:24 - 00:20:12:05 Eric Joern That's exactly how they taught us to do cost accounting. But then we go into actuality. And I get it right. If we're filing a tax return and that's it, we're just going to when the money goes out, that's when we're expensing it. When the money comes in, that's when we're recording it as income. But if we're trying to measure actual performance of the business, you have to consider what are the economic realities of that of that month. 00:20:12:07 - 00:20:36:19 Eric Joern Right. It's not you know, we bought bulk oil. We're going to use that oil over the next three months. If I expense it all this month, I'm going to make major profits the next two months. So we need to normalize things. And that's why, again, you look at a three month trend because that starts to normalize things. If you look at a one of our favorite reports is, a trailing 12 months, meaning I get to see every single month, every single month for the last 12 months. 00:20:36:19 - 00:20:40:03 Eric Joern And I have actually an example of this. So we can we can pull off. 00:20:40:03 - 00:20:42:02 Cecil Bullard And yeah, go ahead and pull that up. 00:20:42:04 - 00:21:06:03 Eric Joern Yeah. Let's pull that up. And let's talk about what the benefits of looking at it this way and now this is more of a hey, I'm finding I'm finding trends that are happening, but also I'm finding, abnormal abnormalities. Right. There might be something that sticks out. So your $30,000 property tax bill should stick out, right. Because it's going to say 00000. 00:21:06:04 - 00:21:08:00 Eric Joern Then $30,000. 00:21:08:03 - 00:21:08:14 Cecil Bullard Right. 00:21:08:14 - 00:21:24:17 Eric Joern Well and and then we know, hey the right process for that. That's actually again it goes on to the balance sheet. And I know we're you know, our title of this is reading your panel without the bias. And I think it might be a balance sheet or might just be a fun title, but 00:21:24:19 - 00:21:29:04 Cecil Bullard It was probably a fun title. 00:21:29:06 - 00:21:49:07 Eric Joern But again. Right, that payment should really go, you know, depending on how you're, you're paying property taxes, should either be a prepaid or you accrue that throughout the year. And then when that payment comes out, that's it all hits the balance sheet. Right. And again, the balance sheet is our holding place to normalize our financials. Make sure they look consistent month to month. 00:21:49:09 - 00:21:57:04 Cecil Bullard So it sounds it sounds to me like you're recommending accrual based accounting and not cash based accounting. Oh much. 00:21:57:07 - 00:22:21:23 Eric Joern Absolutely. And what we like to use the word modified accrual accounting because you know, are we going to say we got an internet bill, right. Largely the same bill every month? Does it make sense in our accounting process to enter the bill? And then at mark the payment or we just post the expense right when we pay it because it's the same bill every single month. 00:22:21:26 - 00:22:42:07 Eric Joern We're going to treat that probably in a cash basis format, because it doesn't materially affect the financials. And it's more practical for a shop owner that's especially that's handling their own books to do it that way. Now, what we want to do is we want to highlight those major expenses and normalize them over time. Well, right. We are going to apply accrual treatments. 00:22:42:07 - 00:22:51:25 Eric Joern The most impactful items on a financial statement because we want as as reliable results on these financial statements as possible. 00:22:51:27 - 00:23:04:09 Cecil Bullard So we're looking at, PNL here. All of the names have been changed to protect the innocent. Yeah. What what is right about this? 00:23:04:11 - 00:23:28:12 Eric Joern Yeah. So they they started going in the right direction. Right. So we got our, we have our parts sales, our labor sales, maybe some. There are some things that kind of get out of hand a little bit. They're in weird categories, right? We got this random $15,000 here. You don't really like seeing all those, you don't like seeing things that are are lonely on the on a rolling pad. 00:23:28:12 - 00:23:29:08 Eric Joern All right, we see. 00:23:29:08 - 00:23:34:14 Cecil Bullard Two parts sales categories with the same titles. 00:23:34:16 - 00:23:55:18 Eric Joern Right? Yeah, I think it's just a title. Again. Right. It's. Hey, we you know, they made some mistakes. They didn't know what to do with that dollar amount. And then we have. But we do. We have good bones here, right? We have labor sales. We have parts sales. Maybe there's a couple items here. We got subcontractor sales. 00:23:55:21 - 00:24:18:17 Eric Joern We got hazmat. Right. Those are all your your greater than 2% items. And maybe there's some slop in here that whatever. That's slop. Then we got things like your, you know, we talked about December pals, right. Here's, here's all your year end to just clean some things up of course. Probably the tax accountant jumping in there and just making some adjustments so they can file tax return again, I get it. 00:24:18:18 - 00:24:35:25 Eric Joern That's a direction that that needs to happen, right? You don't pay your taxes, you end up going to jail or your business gets shut down. Needs to happen. But it doesn't help us make good decisions about our business. But we have those good bones in there. But, you know, we got all these extra accounts, like parts sold to third party. 00:24:35:25 - 00:24:43:08 Eric Joern We have, you know, are we really measuring that? Any differently than our normal parts sales? If not, that's just noise. 00:24:43:08 - 00:25:02:03 Cecil Bullard And it ought to be a know it ought to be in the parts pile. It's not enough. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. We have, companies that sell online, so let me have 20% of their part sales be online sales, and we're not looking for a 58% margin on online sales though, that we're looking for different margins. 00:25:02:05 - 00:25:16:22 Cecil Bullard And so they will separate online sales. But if you're, you know, occasionally selling some parts to yourself or to your tax, just put it in part sales don't don't divide it out in a separate category. Yeah. 00:25:16:24 - 00:25:34:24 Eric Joern Exactly. It creates noise. And and there's a way to handle it inside your shop management system. So that way it translates to the, the account, the financials the right way when you do that. I mean, ideally, right, if your technician is buying parts, you know, do we want to write a repair order and, and do it that way? 00:25:34:24 - 00:25:38:24 Eric Joern I mean, ideally they just buy either directly from the parts vendor. 00:25:38:26 - 00:26:04:11 Cecil Bullard Or ideally, but that in reality they're probably not right. They're probably the shop is carrying them at some point often. At least that's my experience. My experience is that the bulk of part sales through shops, the shop is creating a ticket or something, and then charging the tech when they get their paycheck or, you know, once a month or whatever. 00:26:04:14 - 00:26:19:00 Cecil Bullard And certainly, you know, if that's what you're going to do, then you need to be creating a ticket because you need, accountability for the cost and the and what you you know, what you charged and the money that came in. 00:26:19:06 - 00:26:36:18 Eric Joern So, yeah, if it runs through a shop, there should be an arrow on there. Any any car that touches your shop has to have an arrow. Any part that gets purchased through your shop has to have an arrow attached to it. Otherwise you lose accountability. The minute you say there's exceptions to that, you introduce the opportunity for theft. 00:26:36:18 - 00:26:40:23 Eric Joern You waste not and you lose accountability for it. 00:26:40:25 - 00:27:03:09 Cecil Bullard Yeah, invisibility creates, lack of accountability. The other thing is having had an audit or to, you know, if there is, slop or things that are missing, then the IRS gets to make their best guess and, and their best guess is is never in your in your benefit. 00:27:03:11 - 00:27:08:00 Eric Joern Yeah. And it gets even worse. You start getting into state sales tax audits, right. Yeah. 00:27:08:01 - 00:27:12:03 Cecil Bullard Did you, did they pay the sales tax on that. Right. 00:27:12:05 - 00:27:35:10 Eric Joern Sales tax. Use tax. Did they pay it on the right. The minute they find one thing they're they're digging deep right there. They run somewhat like a business. Right. They find some if they don't find any evidence up front, they're going to stop digging pretty fast. They see something. If they see disorganization, slop up front, if they look at a set of financials and it doesn't make sense, they're going to go digging throughout everything. 00:27:35:12 - 00:27:38:12 Eric Joern And the other thing are the worst. 00:27:38:12 - 00:28:07:15 Cecil Bullard Yeah. And the other thing I think that that the shop owners, the average person probably doesn't understand is that the state sales tax is collecting sales tax from thousands and thousands of businesses. So they have data, and they have data that basically says if you're buying X amount of parts and you're you're in this type of business that you should be paying X amount of sales tax, right, and 100 and if you're, if you're outside of their window, right. 00:28:07:15 - 00:28:14:14 Cecil Bullard The, the bell curve that that's an audit or that's a fine. Right. I mean. 00:28:14:16 - 00:28:26:06 Eric Joern Literally they're going to look to triangulate your sales tax returns to your financial statements. Back to the your income tax return. Yeah. So yeah. 00:28:26:08 - 00:28:50:11 Cecil Bullard The IRS does the same thing. I mean they have they have data on I don't 200 plus thousand automotive shops that have been filing taxes. Now I would think that that would be really confusing because of how many bad panels I've seen. Right. But they've normalized that data as best they can. And if you're outside their windows, then they're they want to look a lot harder, right? 00:28:50:13 - 00:28:52:19 Eric Joern Absolutely, absolutely. 00:28:52:22 - 00:29:09:26 Cecil Bullard So, on that panel that you have, there's an awful lot of, just crap, right? Tech a b c d what? Why, what's that noise there? Right. I mean, yeah. 00:29:09:28 - 00:29:29:23 Eric Joern But it's the right, right thought process. Right? In our cost of goods, we have our labor cost, right? So they have the right idea, they know what they need to measure, and then they added complexity. They added noise to it. Right. We're not making business decisions based on what we're paying that technician on our panel. We're going to look at that costs relativity. 00:29:29:23 - 00:29:38:22 Eric Joern And then we're going to look at things like, hey, what was that individual's efficiency. That's not a measurement. And you get off your PNL right. You have to use to it. 00:29:38:29 - 00:29:47:23 Cecil Bullard That's a different yeah of different data set exempt. So I would only have the payroll category. That's it. And it would just the. 00:29:47:23 - 00:29:48:25 Eric Joern One one item for. 00:29:48:25 - 00:30:17:27 Cecil Bullard Technicians. Yeah. And then I like to see the text divide it out an above the line. And then sales below the line. And my management people below the line. And I like to see sales broken out from the rest. And techs broken out. Those three categories are kind of a necessity for me because I'm trying to manage sales cost and tech costs and then fixed expense costs. 00:30:18:00 - 00:30:18:27 Cecil Bullard Right? 00:30:18:29 - 00:30:40:23 Eric Joern Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we even have right. More more noise here again. Right, right. Concept shop supplies we have here and we're probably charging shop supplies here as an income line. So we have the income and we have the cost line. That's correct. But then we add things like delivery and tax. So not only do we have you know, we can't make any decisions on those and we don't. 00:30:40:24 - 00:30:45:19 Eric Joern Right. That's the cost of acquiring that shop supply. We don't need to break it out. That's creating. 00:30:45:19 - 00:30:59:18 Cecil Bullard More work. When they created a category for tax because at 1.3 $10 on. And so now I have a whole new category that creates instead of just throwing it kind of in the pile. 00:30:59:21 - 00:31:18:08 Eric Joern Yeah. Well, and this is again where I get to the point of there's so much, there's so much noise out, out. And if you go out and you just try to figure this out on your own and you're getting information from there and there and QuickBooks and you're doing this and, you know, now I got my Shopify invoice on here, and here's my cost for my shop supplies. 00:31:18:10 - 00:31:42:21 Eric Joern But then I have my costs for my delivery, my costs for my tax. So I can understand why somebody naturally just says, I'm going to enter it in like that and actually with with wages. One of the funny things, we see it all the time, I don't think in this case it it didn't make sense for it to look like this, but we'll see that the, the wages, the wage cost is actually entered as the net check that goes to the employee. 00:31:42:23 - 00:32:03:03 Eric Joern So right there on their payroll and they're withholding their federal withholding. The IRS is in payroll taxes and their 401 K contributions in retirement. And they only captured the not the net check. And I'm but I'm like no you're paying them. They're choosing to take some of their money that you paid them and give it to those different parties. 00:32:03:06 - 00:32:14:26 Eric Joern That's still just their wage. That's not the net check. But hey, that's what came out of my bank account. Right? So if I go in and I run payroll in QuickBooks, it's going to come through as a net check to my employee. 00:32:14:29 - 00:32:40:15 Cecil Bullard But no, that's really I mean, because we have, employees and they're going to we're paying for like and futa and worker's comp and, and worker's comp is not a cost. That is their cost. It's my cost. But ficken futa is at least in part their cost. Yep. Because we're taking money out of their check. And then if we have a for one can we have a for one k here. 00:32:40:15 - 00:33:05:10 Cecil Bullard So we take money from your check and we hold on to it. And then we do whatever matching and we pay out like we would like in futa. Yeah. And and so we have to whatever your whole gross check is, that's what needs to be reported. And then the other things that come out that are your costs, we don't really care about. 00:33:05:15 - 00:33:09:07 Cecil Bullard It's the things that we pay that we care about as far as the company goes. 00:33:09:09 - 00:33:28:06 Eric Joern Exactly. And again, right. If you only build your pal based on where the money comes out of the bank, right? The batch that goes directly into your employees accounts, whether it's direct deposit or checks. Right. That's a separate payroll. I mean, you might have something called impounding done. If you're using a payroll provider, that's a whole different story. 00:33:28:06 - 00:33:45:29 Eric Joern Right. And then then there's no making sense of how that money happens unless you get a breakdown report from them. But yeah, if you're only following the cash flows, right, you're going to improperly account for and we see that time after time after time again, when those expense ratios don't look right, you know, hey, it's time to dig in. 00:33:45:29 - 00:34:09:18 Eric Joern Let's figure out what's the answer. Okay. Yep. We found out that we didn't record payroll, right. Your payroll taxes look super high, right? They should only be. You know what? Seven, maybe 7 to 10% of your total wages paid? Not, you know, 20 to 30% of the total wages paid. Again, understanding those ratios helps you figure out is this even an accurate financial statement? 00:34:09:20 - 00:34:32:04 Cecil Bullard But also, I would think that if you had a an audit from the IRS and they came in and they said, well, wait a minute, you you've shown this cost here, you didn't really show the money you pulled out of their account and you put in here. And so now your taxes aren't going to be right. And we're going to audit you and you're going to OS, X, y, z plus. 00:34:32:06 - 00:34:58:00 Eric Joern At the very least, it's going to cause them to start digging. Right. And when they're not, when they start digging, they're end up finding record keeping. That's not proper. And that's, you know, you could be doing everything right. But you I didn't keep these receipts. I didn't do treat this weird thing right. I mean, I think now we have three different ways that meals are taxed depending on who you're eating with and why you're eating a meal. 00:34:58:02 - 00:34:59:00 Cecil Bullard 00:34:59:03 - 00:35:10:29 Eric Joern So there's a lot of complexity that was that was built and that's on the tax side of things. Right. That's not even on just your pal, but that hey, now I have one meals account. How do I properly handle that from a tax standpoint. 00:35:11:02 - 00:35:31:20 Cecil Bullard Yeah I have to do two meals two different meals account because often I'm either out traveling and having a meal because I'm out, or I might be with a client having a meeting and a meal is a part of that. We actually have three, because then we also do events where we provide food, which is a different tax category altogether. 00:35:31:20 - 00:35:32:11 Cecil Bullard So yeah. 00:35:32:11 - 00:35:49:10 Eric Joern And shop owners. Right. Hey, hey, we're doing our lunches on Fridays to celebrate the week. And then we do our lunches on Thursdays for training. And then, you know, hey, maybe I took a customer out to eat again. All have now have different tax treatments. It's, it's complexity. 00:35:49:13 - 00:35:56:19 Cecil Bullard How many? Not purposes. How many pages is the federal tax code now? Oh. 00:35:56:21 - 00:36:04:01 Eric Joern I think I think it travels around the world and something like, 100 times or something like that. If you lay them page by. 00:36:04:01 - 00:36:05:02 Cecil Bullard They say. 00:36:05:08 - 00:36:11:25 Eric Joern Yeah, it's it laps the world so many times I can't remember the exact number, but so let's. 00:36:11:28 - 00:36:30:28 Cecil Bullard Let's see if we can bring it, make it smaller for shop owners here. What, what? Keep it simple, right? Yep. Make sure and I, we have a sample, like, what do you want to call it? 00:36:30:28 - 00:36:31:29 Eric Joern Chart of accounts. 00:36:31:29 - 00:36:58:21 Cecil Bullard Or. Yeah. Yeah. Excuse me. And you've seen ours because I know I've sent it to clients and to you guys, and you guys do a good job of making those things happen for our clients. So keep it simple, right? Because I have the detail I can always print out later if I want to print out detailed to find problems. 00:36:58:24 - 00:37:13:19 Cecil Bullard And then, what do you think's the biggest mistake or the biggest? Top two mistakes that are made by small business owners, trying to do accounting or bookkeeping. Yeah, well. 00:37:13:22 - 00:37:19:03 Eric Joern The number one thing is they don't they don't know what a balance sheet is, and they've never looked at it. 00:37:19:06 - 00:37:46:19 Cecil Bullard Yeah. By the way, I've seen if I've seen 10,000 panels, I've seen 10,000 balance sheets. And I could name on one finger the balance sheets that I've seen that were actually accurate. I have seen so many balance sheets where there's what's this, $150,000 here. Right. And oh, that was something that 25 years ago when we bought the business, that was something we quote unquote depreciated or we did whatever. 00:37:46:22 - 00:38:14:13 Cecil Bullard And it's this, it's this dead or something that's still hanging on and has not been accounted for at all. Yeah. And, and do you think, do you think it's a laziness from the bookkeeper, accountant, accountant person of just like, I'm not going to I'm not going to spend the time to do that because no one's ever going to really look at it, or it doesn't really make any difference. 00:38:14:15 - 00:38:37:06 Eric Joern I think there's definitely that. Right. You know? Hey, the the piano has a lot of effect. It has a lot of impact. Meaning that's what's going on my tax return and I'm paying tax on it. It's probably what I'm using to make my business decision. So it's got a lot of impact. Those are two very impactful things. My balance sheet unless I go to a lender right, a lender is maybe going to think you're what's my current ratio. 00:38:37:06 - 00:38:46:00 Eric Joern Right. Does my current assets cover my current debt. And then if they're like, hey, why do you have negative, how do you have negative that what is that? 00:38:46:03 - 00:38:49:07 Cecil Bullard And how does that balance sheet not balance. Right. 00:38:49:07 - 00:39:12:29 Eric Joern I mean I've seen that a couple times. Right. Fortunately the softwares prevent you from doing that. But we see things on the ballot. Yeah. If a balance sheet is not accurate the PNL cannot be accurate. Right. Because if it's on the balance sheet then it's not on the PNL right. Meaning it cannot be accurate. So in our opinion, that is by far the number one thing is we see pretty panels and we see messy balance sheets. 00:39:12:29 - 00:39:17:14 Eric Joern You know, you say, well, as nice as your pencil looks, it can't be right. 00:39:17:16 - 00:39:35:22 Cecil Bullard So we have a question or two. Should I have discounts shown on the PNL? And if I do, should it be split from parts and labor? So if I am discounting, am I taking that money in and then taking that money out as a discount? What's your recommendation? 00:39:35:24 - 00:39:53:15 Eric Joern Yeah. So the the discount line needs to be, needs to be there. Right. So we're going to show our gross labor sales. We want to know how much we're discounting. Now whether to split it out between labor discount and parts discount. Right. Really depends on your policy. In this case. 00:39:53:15 - 00:40:16:14 Cecil Bullard You're trying to if you're trying to look at parts margin, which we want to be 58%, and you're trying to look at labor margin. And as a loaded labor margin, I want that to be around 64%. Then if I don't if I'm in, I'm discounting either all in part or all in labor. Then I'm going to get some funky numbers. 00:40:16:21 - 00:40:37:10 Cecil Bullard Right? And that's kind of point out to me some, some issues, but it'll be it'll be harder to put your finger on where the problem is. Right? Somebody that's seen a lot of panels and a lot of mistakes made will will get it faster. But for a general shop owner, you're just not going to see it. Yeah. 00:40:37:13 - 00:40:54:16 Eric Joern Yeah. I mean it really depends on the materiality of how you do it. Right? If I you know, this case, you know, they've issued $2,000 parts discounts through a year. Do I want to keep an extra line item for that. Probably doesn't make sense. Right. We're going to have one discount line because we know and we know how we run our business. 00:40:54:16 - 00:41:00:07 Eric Joern We're going to discount labor. And that's their choice. On how they're doing that. So that's how we're going to measure it. 00:41:00:13 - 00:41:07:27 Cecil Bullard But it's also kind of kind of wonder was this really a discount or was this like a bad debt you wrote off. Right. Because of the way it's. 00:41:07:29 - 00:41:08:21 Eric Joern How you handle it in. 00:41:08:25 - 00:41:23:07 Cecil Bullard Seven months with nothing. And then all of a sudden you got, you know, a couple of months with stuff. And that's a good point. Yeah. I would be going. I'm not even sure that was a discount at this point. Did we account for a bad debt in the wrong place? 00:41:23:10 - 00:41:42:10 Eric Joern Right. Yeah. And to me, discounts are a separate issue than parts and labor margin. Right. Because we're measuring parts of the labor margin at our stated, you know, our stated rate. And then we have discounting. Right. Discounting to me is a whole separate thing than pricing. Pricing is what am I setting? What am I selling a labor my labor for? 00:41:42:10 - 00:42:00:25 Eric Joern What am I selling my parts for? Then I have a discount, right? And I have an allowance, right? We probably set budgets on how much we're willing to discount at each month, and that's how I'm holding my discounts accountable to my team, is based on what budget did I set and and did I? It really doesn't matter which bucket you chose it from at that point, right? 00:42:00:26 - 00:42:15:19 Eric Joern Because that because that all ends up in the same gross profit. But you have to know that these are two, two separate different things because discount rate your labor rates, your labor rate, your parts margin matrixes, your parts matrix discounts is a separate action. 00:42:15:21 - 00:42:41:26 Cecil Bullard And I see shops, that discounted $12,000 and didn't make two. And and you're you just shaking your head. There's there's a question here. Jensen, did you say service wages is not in cost of goods sold? What I said is that I like tech wages, so I don't know what you. If you're calling service wages. I'm not sure what you're saying. 00:42:41:29 - 00:43:16:24 Cecil Bullard I like the tech wages in a cost of goods sold. But I want the service advisor. My sales cost under and under the line in a, like a fixed kind of in the where the fixed expenses would be separated out a, so, yeah. Got to have got to have clarity around, what you're talking about, but, definitely for mine and for our clients, we want to see the technician wages and, above the line, and above the line, below the line. 00:43:16:26 - 00:43:28:25 Cecil Bullard So you have, variable expenses, parts labor, etc., and then you have fixed expenses, and the variables are above the line and fixed or below the line. 00:43:28:27 - 00:43:51:15 Eric Joern Yep. Yeah. We're we're at a 100% agreement. If you happen to move service advisor up into cost of goods, maybe that's just how you've always done it. How you have your historical data, measured. You know, you just need you know, now, you you've moved the goalpost, right? So if our goal was 65% GP, now it might be 55% GP because we include service advisor. 00:43:51:15 - 00:44:12:20 Eric Joern So you just have to understand the relativity of how you structure it. But again, right. If you were comparing panels in a peer group. Right. We want everybody to do things the same way. So we're measuring apples to apples. The more variability you add into how we measure things and what you're comparing them to. Now all of a sudden you might have incorrect measurements. 00:44:12:22 - 00:44:35:11 Cecil Bullard And it's funny because I ran 20 groups for years and we have quite a few here groups and, and after, I don't know, 15 years, you find out that the one guy is measuring something in a completely absolute different way than somebody else is measuring it. And so you've been comparing this data. They've been in the group for 15 years and you've been comparing data. 00:44:35:13 - 00:44:57:20 Cecil Bullard And then all of a sudden somehow you're having a conversation like, oh yeah, that's this, this and this. And you're like, no, it's really not. So that makes it difficult. That's why we do the composite, data stuff so we can kind of decipher the data a little differently to make the peer group be able to have relative data. 00:44:57:22 - 00:44:58:27 Cecil Bullard Exactly. Yeah. 00:44:59:00 - 00:45:14:08 Eric Joern The data hygiene is so important that, it's a big challenge that we want to. Especially when you come with industry wide data. Right? Is it has not been cleaned up enough as, as it has inside of a reporting composite. Like what you guys have. 00:45:14:11 - 00:45:43:00 Cecil Bullard So we we I've recently sent you guys, I don't know, 4 or 5 clients that it's really a mess. I mean, it's just a disaster. And and, do you, you said earlier that, you know, bad data. As long as it's consistent, consistency is probably more important than being 100% accurate. Do you? Would you say, like, bite the bullet, get it cleaned up and start moving forward? 00:45:43:00 - 00:45:54:13 Cecil Bullard Or would you go back a certain period of time to try and clear that data up? So that you can create a, a broader, view of things? 00:45:54:16 - 00:46:11:06 Eric Joern I'm going to give you the the perfect accountant answer. It depends. If I am somebody who is likely to go out and get that in the near term, meaning I'm going to go do an acquisition, I might need to clean up a few years because I'm going I might lose my ability to go get that, if I don't do that. 00:46:11:08 - 00:46:35:24 Eric Joern But for the most part, you know, 80% of the shop owners that come in our door, it's more important that we focus on moving forward than going backwards. So I'd say 80% of the time we might in those cases, we're going to start a brand new file, accounting files use the last file tax return as our starting point and focus really on clean data going forward for the current year. 00:46:35:27 - 00:46:55:10 Cecil Bullard So is there any reason that I would say, okay. It's I don't know, it's, August and, we know that our financials are a disaster, and now I'm going to wait until December because that's the quote unquote end of my year. 00:46:55:13 - 00:47:17:09 Eric Joern I'd probably go back to January 1st and and bring it, bring it forward through that current year. I might not go back and re clean up, you know, 2025, 2024 or 2023 if especially if we have a tax return filed again, unless. Right, hey, I show losses in those years that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 00:47:17:09 - 00:47:35:20 Eric Joern And I need to go out and get a loan from a bank, right? We might want to clean that up or hey, I, I have I have people interested in buying my business and we need good historical financial data. But for the most part, the cost of us going back and cleaning up prior years is is too much. 00:47:35:23 - 00:47:42:01 Eric Joern It's too much, and it's a distraction from getting the current information clean and and right moving forward. 00:47:42:03 - 00:48:07:18 Cecil Bullard But I would say as, as a coaching consultant, that I don't care if you're 25 or you're 85, and if you own a business, you should have a plan, an out plan. And if I don't have good clean data, at least for three years, I'm not going to get paid for my business the way that I should be paid for my business. 00:48:07:20 - 00:48:32:08 Cecil Bullard And so whatever you're going to do, port in my in my brain, poor accounting, it's it could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. Oh, 100 in, in the short term, really, and, and the long and the long term, 00:48:32:11 - 00:48:33:18 Eric Joern I just. 00:48:33:20 - 00:48:51:11 Cecil Bullard Yeah. And, I don't know, I get a lot of, I don't know how, how often, but an awful lot of people saying, hey, I want to go buy the shop, or I'm looking at this shop or whatever. So what do you think it's worth? We do this a lot, and I'm like, okay, give me three years worth of profit and loss statements. 00:48:51:11 - 00:49:19:02 Cecil Bullard Give me that good balance sheet. And, you know, and, let's run some reports out of the point of sale. I'd like to know what the average repair orders and few other pieces of data. And then I can tell you with a three other questions, pretty much within a few dollars of what that business really is worth. But if the data is if I can't get three years, I had a guy in, Northern California go to buy a shop mini, this few years back. 00:49:19:02 - 00:49:51:17 Cecil Bullard And he's like, so I need to look at it. And, supposedly there was a few hundred thousand dollars of cash that was not in the on the panel. And so the business is worth 800,000, but the Pal only supports 200,000. It doesn't support 800,000 because that money can't be accounted for. Yeah. And the, the broker was arguing with me that that 200,000 was legitimate and should be accounted for. 00:49:51:17 - 00:50:12:16 Cecil Bullard And I was saying the bank won't account for it. I can't get a loan for it. So the answer is no. And it also clouds the other data. You know, when you're looking at, say, parts margin or labor margins, and you look at that business, you say, well, man, they're really poor. I know I can make them better because that's what I do for a living. 00:50:12:18 - 00:50:39:05 Cecil Bullard And, so I think there's hidden value in this business, but there isn't really, because it's $200,000 in parts and labor that you pulled off that you paid for, but you pulled it off and took it in its cash. So those margins with that cash in there would have looked a lot better. And what we really found was that there were also all the employees had been paid cash off the books for several years. 00:50:39:08 - 00:50:59:21 Cecil Bullard Because the guy I told not to buy the business bought it anyway and overpaid for it anyway. Yeah. And, it's it's scary what you what what really happens? What you really see here absolutely scares the crap out of me sometimes. I think we got a question. 00:50:59:23 - 00:51:05:00 Eric Joern So. Oh. Warranty. Oh, fun. Yes. 00:51:05:03 - 00:51:06:12 Cecil Bullard Great question. Go ahead. 00:51:06:14 - 00:51:34:04 Eric Joern Yeah. No. So this is important that you handle it properly in the shop management system. We don't we don't use the discounting function to handle warranty. Right. Most shop management systems have an ability to call other payment types. So, I'm assuming you're talking about a, an internal warranty, right? We have a comeback repair that we're doing, or we offer a three year, 36 on breaks or, you know, we pay for the brake job, whatever it may be. 00:51:34:06 - 00:51:51:25 Eric Joern We're going to have a a other payment type. So we're going to write up that repair order and we might what we want to do is kind of neutralize that effect on our on our gross profit margin. So we're going to write the parts around costs. We're going to write the labor around costs. So we might have a set rate that we use for what we do. 00:51:51:26 - 00:52:07:06 Eric Joern Also what we do to work on an internal like shop owned vehicle or maybe, hey, me as an owner, I've a my vehicle is owned by the shop. We're going to write those repair orders like that because I still need to pay my technician. I still need to account for the part. So those in need on a repair order. 00:52:07:06 - 00:52:26:26 Eric Joern Exactly. Now, if I pay my service advisor on gross profit and I say zero out, that repair order, or I discount that repair order, now that's a negative gross profit to my service advisor for something that paid. They're not really accountable for. So we like to neutralize the effect on gross profit. 00:52:26:29 - 00:52:55:01 Cecil Bullard And we actually had multiple warranty categories that we paid out. So we had tech error. We had parts failure, and we had just, you know, give away, and we had warranty legitimate, you know, that brake job, we warranty it for three years. It failed at two years. And we're going to redo the whole thing, as part of the warranty is not anybody's fault. 00:52:55:03 - 00:53:06:05 Cecil Bullard Not really part's fault? Not really the tech error. Yeah, it's a legitimate warranty. So we had, a minimum of four categories that we could look at. 00:53:06:08 - 00:53:28:27 Eric Joern Yeah, I like to keep that level of detail at the shop management system level. Maybe when it routes to your pal, you might have one line. Yeah. For all those things that your, I guess, quote unquote eating. Right. Because then we're looking at that, hey, I have a problem now we're going to go back to the source and say, okay, here's my four item break down inside my shop management system, and I'm going to then address, you know, that's a performance problem. 00:53:28:27 - 00:53:31:03 Eric Joern So I'm going to address it from there. 00:53:31:06 - 00:53:50:16 Cecil Bullard As a as a consultant. I like to know where the warranty is coming from because then that can focus me in a direction that I can put a solution in place. But as far as the PNL, I just need to know that my overall warranty is below a certain percentage. And so I like to see that. 00:53:50:16 - 00:54:12:03 Cecil Bullard And that's another reason why I like to have the percentages, in the column. And I can tell you even today, the panels I get and I see hundreds every month, most of them don't have the percentages. I even got one last week where it was, December. And then it was the total, but it was only December's total. 00:54:12:03 - 00:54:41:12 Cecil Bullard So there were two columns, but it was the same column with no percentages. There's there's no that there was no benefit to a second column. That's just a copy of the first column. Yeah. And, you just wonder why someone isn't paying attention to that. Who probably should, right? Yeah. And is that is that my is that my bookkeeper or my accountant's responsibility to go, hey, these are things that you should be looking at or is that not. 00:54:41:14 - 00:55:01:07 Eric Joern So I will say we've built we've ran into some limitations in the software inside of QuickBooks about being able to generate those reports. What the detail that we like to look at, exactly what you described, where you have like the either a trailing three months or a year to date comparison, along with the single month comparison with the percentages. 00:55:01:09 - 00:55:23:21 Eric Joern Well, that's outside of the ability for QuickBooks to generate a report with that much data on it. So we've actually we use another software that that plugs into QuickBooks online, in which we can further customize and build our deliverable with those different reports like that, because we also found that issue of, hey, hey, if we can't add percentages here, you know, you lose some relativity to that. 00:55:23:21 - 00:55:43:14 Cecil Bullard Report and for me, the financials, I mean, obviously I want to pay my taxes and I don't want to be audited. And if I'm audited, I'd like it to be clean. Yeah. I cannot tell you how many shops we've come in. I had, I can give you, at least one example. Father and son, they owed the IRS 300,000. 00:55:43:14 - 00:56:02:27 Cecil Bullard And I'm looking at their panels and their accountant had been a bookkeeper, had been double accounting income. So the income that they had reported and stated was not the income that they really had. And so when it was all said and done, we kind of, sent it through what I would call a forensic accountant. We cleaned it up. 00:56:03:00 - 00:56:05:20 Cecil Bullard They really didn't owe the IRS much. 00:56:05:22 - 00:56:09:10 Eric Joern We only have a three year statute of limitations to to correct that. 00:56:09:12 - 00:56:39:13 Cecil Bullard Yeah. And, which. Yeah. And I've seen that happen a lot of times too, which makes me a little, a little nuts. All right. I think we had, like, a last question. I think we're getting to the end of this thing, credit card processing fees charged, separate line. Yeah, I, I always have credit card processing fees, and there should be a line for it as a cost in a below the line. 00:56:39:15 - 00:57:00:11 Eric Joern Yeah. So so they're talking if they charge for that. So if they charge for the fees, they pass it along. There's a few different ways to do it. I do think that that's a now an income item. Right. And we might actually bring up the cost or we might even apply the cost against that income, because it's really a pass through at that point. 00:57:00:13 - 00:57:01:03 Eric Joern So we might. 00:57:01:03 - 00:57:03:02 Cecil Bullard Have interesting philosophy. Yeah. 00:57:03:02 - 00:57:13:08 Eric Joern Yeah. Yeah. So if we're, if it becomes a pass through because we charge for that credit card fee, you know, we might only record the net additional or cost that we have. 00:57:13:10 - 00:57:26:06 Cecil Bullard So you're saying, I'm going to report the $4,000 ticket as an income, but I'm also going to report the, I don't know, $40 that the credit card company is charging me to do that $4,000 ticket. 00:57:26:08 - 00:57:49:21 Eric Joern Yeah. So if we charge, say, $50 and, you know, our credit card fee and it costs us $40, right, we'd have a net $10 of income and we might report it just as a straight net $10. Again, that's a little bit newer. And we're still trying to understand how that really relates to how we do pricing, how we analyze gross profit, things like that on a financial. 00:57:49:24 - 00:57:57:08 Eric Joern I mean, I think maybe the last 12 months is when people have started really adopting. We're going to pass on credit card fees to our customers. 00:57:57:10 - 00:58:22:01 Cecil Bullard Yeah, I see that to it's very I'm seeing it at, the questions coming up more and more. We've never we haven't primarily in the past. But the question is coming up more and more now. All right. Before we before we wrap it all up, we have this financial intensive April the 23rd. 00:58:22:01 - 00:58:24:09 Eric Joern 2020 third and 24th. 00:58:24:11 - 00:58:29:18 Cecil Bullard Yeah, I think it's 23rd and 24th. It might be 22nd, 23rd, but I'm pretty sure it's the 23rd and 24th. They total. 00:58:29:18 - 00:58:31:00 Eric Joern 23rd. 24th. 00:58:31:00 - 00:59:00:01 Cecil Bullard Yeah. Okay. And and this we're going to be really teaching the importance of good, accounting. Good bookkeeping. And also, the things from the coaching perspective that you need to look at and what they mean to you and what that so I can look at a PNL and I can say we have a problem with parts the way we market parts. 00:59:00:01 - 00:59:19:20 Cecil Bullard Or I can look at a panel and say, man, we're not charging enough for our labor, because of the variance between parts and labor as a percentage. And so we're going to be teaching like we're going to get into the the nitty gritty, but without getting into the nitty gritty, it's not going to be an accountant thing where we're going to go through every line and go line by line. 00:59:19:20 - 00:59:42:02 Cecil Bullard We're going to we're going to be really teaching the basics in how to really understand your business in a financial model. And you guys are going to participate in that, which is fantastic. I'm excited. We're already have quite a few people that have signed up for that. If you use the QR code here, you can get signed up for that. 00:59:42:02 - 01:00:09:13 Cecil Bullard It's a, I don't know. I think it's a, I want to say two day class, but it might be three. I think it's extremely reasonably priced. And, we'd love to see you here in, in Utah for that. And I'm excited about it because this is like, my, my my Jones. Right. This is my this is my crack cocaine is this is the numbers and and and I'm not an accountant by far. 01:00:09:13 - 01:00:15:19 Cecil Bullard And I don't know that I could be, but, understanding the business numbers for me, it's like it's crack. 01:00:15:19 - 01:00:34:23 Eric Joern So you understand the impact it has on that business. Their generation. How it helps their technicians, their employees that work for them. And hey, even the community that that shop participates in, right? A more profitable, better shop is going to really have a better effect on the community as a whole. 01:00:34:25 - 01:00:56:04 Cecil Bullard And I always say there's there's like for the average shop, the typical shop right now is making about 4% net, institute shots, a little over 18. We, we, we vary between 18 and about 22 for our shops. But but about half the stuff that you're going to do to make money to fix that. Pretty simple. The other half's a little more complicated. 01:00:56:04 - 01:01:21:17 Cecil Bullard And you really need to understand your business like it's an engine and you need the right amount of fuel and air and and spark at the right time. And, and if you understand those things, it can make you not just thousands of dollars every year in profit, but it can make you tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars when you go to get, you know, sell your business or pass it on. 01:01:21:19 - 01:01:49:02 Cecil Bullard And so, yeah, the industry, the institute, you know, better business, better life, better industry. We find that the more profitable the businesses, the better the owner understands it, the better they can manage people. The more money they make, the happier everyone is. And so. Yeah. So, please, consider coming to the financial class and, Eric will do this again. 01:01:49:05 - 01:02:05:25 Cecil Bullard Yep. Here in the near future. And if you do have questions that didn't get answered, pass them in and we'll do our best to get you answers for those, thank you very much for your time today, Eric. Yeah, of course, we love you guys over at Kaizen. And, I hope I pronounced it correctly. 01:02:06:01 - 01:02:07:23 Eric Joern I think you got it. I think you got to date. 01:02:07:25 - 01:02:16:01 Cecil Bullard Us and shoot me. And, thank you for those of you that attended and had questions. Thank you very much. We'll see you next time. 01:02:16:02 - 01:02:18:13 Eric Joern Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks, everybody.  

189 - Standing at the Crossroads featuring Jason Brennan, Fine Tune Auto January 27, 2025 - 01:19:04   Show Summary: Curiosity turned into craftsmanship, and craftsmanship turned into leadership. Jason Brennan, owner of Fine Tune Automotive with three locations across Illinois and Northwest Indiana, shares how a lifelong habit of taking things apart evolved into building a scalable, people-centered auto repair business. This episode of Leading Edge: Standing at the Crossroads dives into the realities of growing from one shop to multiple locations, including the financial discipline, people challenges, leadership mistakes, and mindset shifts required to scale without losing trust or culture. Jason opens up about learning business management the hard way, letting go of day-to-day control, and making pivotal leadership decisions that reshaped his team and company. From earning trust with technicians, navigating acquisitions, and redefining success beyond store count, this conversation offers honest insight into what it takes to build a business that develops people and leaves a lasting legacy in the automotive repair industry. Thinking about growth, leadership, or the legacy you are building as a shop owner? Meet with Michael Smith for a leadership and legacy strategy conversation: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session   Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Guest(s): Jason Brennan, owner of Fine Tune Auto   Show Highlights: [00:01:49] - Jason Brennan says his lifelong habit of taking things apart shaped everything that followed. [00:03:37] - Jason realized the real reward wasn’t fixing cars, but watching his employees succeed. [00:05:30] - Jason admits his biggest mistake was assuming technical skill meant business readiness. [00:06:07] - Jason explains the non-technical skills that changed the trajectory of his company. [00:08:18] - After 18 years in one shop, Jason shares what finally made expansion feel possible. [00:13:54] - Jason planned for worst-case scenarios before opening the second location. [00:19:28] - Jason recounts the day a key manager never showed up, forcing him to step in. [00:25:46] - A tense shop meeting became the turning point that rebuilt trust and culture. [00:39:10] - Jason compares acquiring a running shop to changing an airplane engine mid-flight. [01:15:21] - Jason defines success by the people who grow alongside him.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/xJ4MYecafck   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Kent Bullard: Welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge Crossroads podcast, where we examine the decisions, the crucial decisions that professionals make as they shape industries, drive careers, inspire thought leadership, and ultimately build lasting legacies. I'm Kent Bullard and I'm joined with my esteemed colleague Michael Smith. Kent Bullard: And today we have a wonderful guest, Jason Brennan. Michael Smith: Hi Jason. Jason Brennan: Good morning. Kent Bullard: Jason, would you please introduce yourself? Jason Brennan: I'm Jason Brennan, owner of Fine Tune Auto. We've got three locations in Northwest Indiana, in Chicago, and I'm happy to be here with you guys. Kent Bullard: We're very happy to have you. We've got an, I know, a phenomenal discussion ahead of us. Kent Bullard: Those of you who are listening to this, either on the podcast or if you're looking at our website, if you have questions, I mean, it's very important to us that this is an open dialogue, that we're able to communicate what we talk about in this podcast with a greater audience. So if you have questions, if you have comments, we'd love to see those in the comment section down below. Kent Bullard: If you do enjoy the content that we cover today, please like and share. 'cause it helps the algorithm and it also helps spread these valuable lessons to a greater audience. Again, we're all about helping the industry and raising the bar for everyone and we thank you for doing that. So let's jump right into the questions then. Kent Bullard: Let's start with number one. What originally brought you to this industry and what inspired you to commit to this industry? Jason Brennan: That's a really good question. The things that brought me to the industry were, you know, I came from a background a technician background, and I cannot. Right. I thought about this on the way in this morning because I knew you were gonna ask me a question like that. Jason Brennan: So I thought, okay what really? Why did I do this? And Michael Smith: what the heck was I thinking? Right? Jason Brennan: I cannot remember a time when I wasn't taking something apart, repairing it, or trying to figure out how it worked in my whole entire life. So from a technical perspective or, you know, from a technical background, I think that's where it came from. Jason Brennan: Just the curiosity about how things worked. I had to know how they worked. I took my toys apart when I was a kid. I think that's a similar story. You probably hear from a lot of a lot of people who started in the industry as technicians. So that was fun to me. It was more fun to take things apart and figure out how they worked than it was to play with them to me. Jason Brennan: So, so, so that led to. Led me into a career where I could get paid to do that. Only I had to. I was responsible for making sure they worked when I was done at that point. So, you know, and so that's what inspired me to get into the industry was just I wanted a good career and doing something I loved and I knew that I could do that. Jason Brennan: Fixing cars. And the other part of your question, I think was what caused me to want to stay. What's causing me to stay committed? Why am I committed? You know? I just ended up really loving it. You know, I ended up becoming a shop owner. I ended up starting to shop and you know, it, it, at first it was technical stuff, you know, I was really interested in the cars, doing a lot of diagnostics, building transmissions, whatever, you know, all the technical stuff. Jason Brennan: And then I evolved into a, I. Into a service advisor and learned how to, you know, learn sales and learn how to communicate well with customers. And I'm still learning how to communicate with people the best that I can. 'Cause that's a, that's almost an art form, I think. But and then I became an owner and I and that's when I really, when one of my commitment really locked in, at first I was just like, man, what did I get myself into here? Jason Brennan: But then the more I learned, the more I liked it. And what keeps me committed is is being able to be part of and facilitating the success of my employees. That's really the, it's the thing I like the most about it. There's other things that keep me committed, like the, you know, good service we provide to customers. Jason Brennan: And the fact that I enjoy the actual the. What am I trying to say? The business that we're in I like all the, I like all the aspects of it, you know, the technical aspect and the customer service aspect. It's all fun to me. But the biggest thing is, the biggest thing that keeps me committed is that I can go to work and witness employees succeeding and becoming their best, the best they can be. Kent Bullard: I, I'm curious 'cause I want to dive a little deeper, you know, to this I took things apart to see how they worked and I had to put 'em back together. You took that approach with toys and then vehicles. Did you bring that same mentality when it came to your business? Jason Brennan: Oh, that's a real good question. Not at first because I didn't realize I needed to, and that was part of the reason why I struggled for years. Jason Brennan: I didn't realize I underestimated the maybe even dismissed the, the fact that I needed to have business management knowledge in order successfully run an auto repair shop. I thought I had already learned enough as a technician that I could, well, I could fix cars so I can, I could just run a business automatically. Jason Brennan: And that wasn't true. So Michael Smith: what Jason Brennan: were your, Michael Smith: what were your biggest surprises? What were your biggest discoveries? Ooh, I don't know enough about that. What were the, what were a handful of topics you discovered? Jason Brennan: The biggest one I'm still learning the most about, I think is what makes people tick. What do they want and how can I give it to 'em? Jason Brennan: And how can we communicate that to each other so that we can make that happen? And that, that's something that, that I'm always working. I don't think I'll ever be done working on that, but you know, financial management. Forecasting, budgeting, how to read a p and l and a balance sheet. How to set key performance indicators and monitor them how to and how to affect them to keep where you need 'em to be. Jason Brennan: All kinds of stuff, you know, that's just, yeah. Good list. Those are the main things, I think. Yeah. Michael Smith: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Kent Bullard: How long did you see, 'cause obviously you went to multiple locations and you put this focus on, well now deconstructing and putting the business back together to, to see how it worked. Kent Bullard: How long did you play in that realm of just the single location and did you think that there was, like, that was gonna be it or were you always kind of planning that there was gonna be more than just the one location? Jason Brennan: At first. When I wrote a I wrote a business plan when I applied for a loan early on in, in our business. Jason Brennan: And it, it did include a a mission statement that included multiple locations. But I think that was more for, at the time I wasn't sure if I'm not sure I was being ho honest with that mission statement. I put that I wanted to have multiple locations, but I'm not sure if I had the confidence that a that I'd actually be able to do it. Jason Brennan: I thought it'd be nice, but I wasn't sure if it was gonna happen. Kent Bullard: It's funny, what we tend to write down tends to come true. Right. So he hadn't intended it. Michael Smith: See what you did to Jason Brennan: yourself. Michael Smith: Right. Jason Brennan: Maybe it just happened because I wrote it down. I'm not sure, but there you Michael Smith: go. Jason Brennan: I forgot what your question was, but, Kent Bullard: it was, how did, was there a point in time or how long? Oh, because obviously you're working in the one location. Yeah. How long was that your world, like, perspective wise? 18. 18 years. 18 years. Michael Smith: And what happened to make the second shop momentum start to move? What, what shifted? Now it's time. Now I can do it. Michael Smith: Right. Jason Brennan: So I hadn't known anybody who owned multiple locations. And I was in a, in the in the gear performance group, used to be called Bottom Line Impact Group. I was in, in the, in my business group with the institute. And I started some of my colleagues already had multiple locations and some of them had opened a second or third or whatever more locations since I met them. Jason Brennan: And as I. As I got to learn more about how they, you know, kinda walk with them on that path, so to speak. I kind of, I realized that that, you know, it gave me confidence that I could do it, and it gave me some ideas about how to do it. I was involved in the m and a group with Michael Smith for a while, and I got to see about a lot about how that goes from growth to all the way to exit strategy and everything. Jason Brennan: That was pretty cool to be able to see that. And anyway, so, so I just kind of observed I observed some of my colleagues doing it and I thought, well, I, there's no reason why I shouldn't do that. And I only had one shop, so I thought and I had gotten it to the point where it ran, for the most part, it could run without me there. Jason Brennan: I was there most of the time anyway, but. That's just 'cause I like to work, honestly. I, but honestly, I've, those people were so good at doing their jobs that I didn't really need to be there. I almost felt like I was getting in the way sometimes, or I was going to work and just sitting in front of my computer looking for things to do. Jason Brennan: And I thought, well, you know, it was kinda like I think it's time I knew the general concept of how to do it and I knew it was time to do it because my business could run without me there. Michael Smith: So you headed southeast from your first location to northwest Indiana, right? What was that? That's a strategic decision. Michael Smith: What, Jason Brennan: right. Michael Smith: How did you process that? How'd you come to that conclusion? Jason Brennan: Well, the Northwest India, Mar Indiana market has been growing. In the last, I would say the last 10 years it, especially in the last 10 years, the Northwest Indian market has get been getting bigger and population, well, I don't know if it's been getting better population wise, bigger population wise, but I know that the demographics of the people who are moving into Northwest Indiana seem to be the ideal demographics for us. Jason Brennan: And so I thought, well, it's good demographics. The Northwest Indiana region seems to be generally favorable to, you know, bi business friendly, I should say. They seem to be business friendly over here. So, those are some of the, a couple of the reasons why I chose that area. And, you know, we're in the, where we are in Illinois, we're in Southeastern Cook County. Jason Brennan: Our Lansing stores in Southeastern Cook County, so we're right in the border. Anyway. Kent Bullard: I'm curious, just going back to your research, did you work with an a company to find that data to make those decisions? Or was this more of a hunch that you knew the area that you felt as though that's what that area was growing into? Jason Brennan: I did some research online on my own. I didn't hire any company or anything. Probably would've been a good idea, but I didn't do that. What I did do though was lived in the area for most of my life. So that's, I mean, you know, like I said, we're right in the border. I now live in northwest Indiana. Jason Brennan: I used to live in Homewood, Illinois. That's just on the other side of the border pretty much. So I had been, I. Just throughout my daily life, you know, I've been, had been around both south suburban Cook County and Northwest Indiana both. And I knew people who had moved there shopped there, you know, all that kind of stuff. Jason Brennan: So I can kind of kinda get a good feel about what the demographics are in the area by just doing that and then can back, you know, you can back that up with research online. Kent Bullard: I love that. So was there apprehension? So once you've got the idea in your head, Hey, I think it's time to ex expand and crow things are running really smoothly now, they don't necessarily need me. Kent Bullard: I think it's time to to move on. What was some of your greatest concerns or fears about taking that next step? Or did you not have any? Jason Brennan: No, I, it's definitely had some concerns. Anybody that doesn't have any concerns about expanding their business is probably setting themselves up for failure. Jason Brennan: They, you should always have some concerns, at least, maybe not fears, but, you know, be be careful with it. Yeah, there were financial concerns. I wasn't sure what the, I wasn't sure exactly what the, what how much cash reserves I needed to do it. So I had to put pencil and pencil paper, or I guess keyboard to spreadsheet or whatever you want to say to ed, do some math to figure out what I needed. Jason Brennan: I had to talk to some other guys in the industry and ask them what they thought I should have in the bank in order to be, in order to not jeopardize my first shop. In the process of expanding in the event that we didn't have the business to make a profit, and, you know how long I basically planned on us losing money for a whole year. Jason Brennan: I, I could have, I had enough, I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending and saving and things and the risks I take. So I, you know, I think I had enough cash where I could have lost money for three years at the second store before I decided to pull the trigger on it, just because I wanted to be that stable. Jason Brennan: I wanted to be very stable. So, because you never know what's gonna happen. So I thought, you know, one of my, one of my concerns or maybe fears, I guess, is well, what happens if we have another recession or something happens in the economy beyond our control and I open my second shop, and then my third, and then my second first store sales and gross profit declines below a level of profitability. Jason Brennan: Right after I open the second one, I'm losing money at both. That could happen. It didn't happen, thank God, but it could have. Michael Smith: So you were super well prepared financially and that gave you peace, right. To be able to have mm-hmm. Some of the confidence to do this. You mentioned earlier that the human components, you know, some of your greatest learning has been in that and still kind of the leading edge of what you're building. Michael Smith: When you made the second acquisition, what were your, what was your thinking going into it with regard to first leadership and team, and second, with regard to customers, and then how did that carry over to further thinking with store three? That unknown human fuzzy stuff, right? How did you handle that? Jason Brennan: So, so what you're asking is what did I the human aspect things? Michael Smith: Yeah. Going into it, what you were thinking, then you did it and you learn more. And then what did you take into store three from the second shop that made the third one hopefully a little easier. Yeah, the human stuff, the hard stuff, right? Michael Smith: The stuff we question, we spent so much time talking about. Jason Brennan: Well, I knew, yeah, you're right. And I get it. So I knew that it you know, I knew that the, once I knew that once I had a financial formula for success and a business model and SOPs, all that kind of stuff that was repeatable or that should in theory be repeatable in a slightly different market then everything relies on a after that. Jason Brennan: I think most of the businesses success relies on the ability to attract and retain the people who can execute that business model. So super important. And so knowing that I. Did recruit in advance before I didn't have much time to open the second store. It was a store that was closed for a month already, I believe it was before I, I had found out about it through a friend in the industry and store had been closed for a month already. Jason Brennan: And I thought, well, it, the value of the bi, the value of the business diminishes. The longer I leave it closed. The more customers who come there and find out it's closed, the less customers I start with. Mm-hmm. When I take over. So Michael Smith: were there any employees still attached to that closed business or did you have to start from scratch? Jason Brennan: They, there were none attached. There were no, there was nobody currently working there, but there were two guys who had two technicians who'd already left and found other jobs who really had enjoyed working at the Hobert Indiana shop that I was able to get to come back. And they're still with us. Jason Brennan: They really liked it. They live in the area. They didn't wanna leave, but the place was closing. So they, you know, they did. And I got 'em both to come back with the help of the old owner. So thanks to Keith Sweeney for that one. He he gave me the connection there and he gave me their phone numbers. I called him, he put in a good word for me. Jason Brennan: He said, Hey, I think you should talk to this guy. And I got those two guys to come back and they're doing well here. So that was really key. Ha having two good techs to start with was really great. And then I did recruit a store manager and hire a store manager. He accepted my po my offer and we got 'em all onboarded and everything in advance. Jason Brennan: And then as we were doing facility improvements it took another whole month before we, we actually opened. So, during that month we re, anyway, during that month we recruited him. He didn't show up on his first day of work. So that was something I had experienced before. So it wasn't, you know, I hate to say it, but it wasn't really that shocked. Jason Brennan: He forgot to Kent Bullard: mark it on his calendar. That's what, that's really what happened. That didn't set the alarm, didn't have it on his calendar. Jason Brennan: Yeah. I called him and I said, Hey, where are you? You know, and he goes, well, I decided to stay where I'm at. I forgot to tell you that. Sorry. You know, so, and this guy was a service director at a service manager at a dealership. Jason Brennan: And they had talked him into staying. Maybe it wasn't the right thing for him. I can't blame him for that, but it would've been nice for me to know that. So anyway, I wrote service and ran the shop for about three months on my own. Before I hired a, before I was able to find a qualified person to come in and train to run the store. Jason Brennan: And I think, let's see. I ended up having a total of three store managers come in and I had to let him go for various different reasons before I found the guy that is currently our store manager at the Hobert shop. So Kent Bullard: I have Jason Brennan: different people issues. Kent Bullard: I'm curious to know, 'cause I mean it's definitely a different place you're in when you're going, when you're at one location and then moving to three locations. Kent Bullard: What do you think some of the key mindset shifts you had to make in order to make that happen from just one location to three locations? Jason Brennan: So one of the key mind mindset shifts I had to make was. Which I believe that I made before I decided to expand beyond one location was that the business needed to not rely on me for, in, in any daily operations aspect. Jason Brennan: Except maybe phone calls and answering questions. You know, so, so I was just like, I was conservative cash wise to make sure I was prepared. I was also conservative that way. I guess you'd call it conservative too, because I kind of overemphasized that concept and I in the sense that I, you know, proved it to myself by, you know, e even like, like I said earlier, I went to work every day, but then before I opened a second shop and I had already been talking to people, talking to everybody, saying, Hey, I want to, I wanna buy or open a second location if you know anybody look to retire or. Jason Brennan: Who runs a good shop or whatever let me know send me their number or them my number, connect us. And that was already starting to happen. So before I decided to pull the trigger on anything, I purposely stayed home and worked on house projects, went and did a, you know, even if I was at the store, I might be doing a painting something or fixing a piece of equipment or whatever. Jason Brennan: And just purposely removing myself from daily operations while keeping the ability to still jump back in if I needed to. And I was actually surprised at how when I conveyed my to my people at the Lansing store, what I was trying to do, I was surprised at their reaction. I shouldn't have been. Jason Brennan: 'cause they were all really good people. But I thought, well, this is gonna take a while. We're gonna have to work a lot of bugs out. But really, they just stepped up to the plate and did their jobs the best they could. And they had equated to me not it, it didn't take very long. To prove to myself that was, that I was able to not be involved in the daily operation there if I needed to be somewhere else. Michael Smith: Alright. Thank you for sharing that, that mindset shift, and we've talked about this in this industry over and over about working in versus on the business, and that, that mindset shift you made to put yourself in a position not to be in it and just to be available to work on it, that's a huge cognitive leap given the technical levels that we most come, mostly come into ownership from. Michael Smith: So thank you for sharing that. That's a huge, that's a huge topic for folks to consider. Kent Bullard: I think a lot of people don't understand that if you're sitting there, you know, the, being the one that. Cranks the lever. It's really hard to go do that in multiple locations. 'cause now you're not just saying, I've got, okay, I'm just gonna do more. Kent Bullard: But you literally have to double the amount of work that you're doing at that if you don't change how you're doing it. 'cause your input has to equal a higher output. Michael Smith: Sure. And it's sort of a compelling, or it's interesting to be the person that they bring all of their, you know, problem solving questions to, Hey boss, can I ask you a question? Michael Smith: And there's a little ego that goes along with that. Yeah. Why don't you do this? Oh, okay. Thanks. Right. And all of a sudden when you pull yourself out, or, you know, in the process in the middle is, well, what do you think you should do? You know, kind of a thing. All of a sudden you realize they can do it on their own and they actually like doing it on their own and then they're happier doing it on their own. Michael Smith: And it's like, huh, this worked pretty well. And they're right. You know? Yeah. Jason Brennan: You're a hundred percent right Michael. And, thinking back. That is something I did. I did ask that question a lot. What do you think we should do here? What do you think the right thing to do is? And that was, that's a good way to, to train people, I think to be more independent is to ask those kinds of questions. Jason Brennan: And Michael Smith: the downside to this too, Jason, is later on, they're like, Hey, stop helping me, but I have an idea. Yeah. I don't want to hear it. Right. It's like, okay. Right. That's fine. Just make it work. Jason Brennan: That could happen. It could, yeah, it could happen too. Michael Smith: Yeah. Jason Brennan: I love it. Michael Smith: I love it. Jason Brennan: But letting people know there, there was a point in time where I remember I had a, there was a, we had a shop meeting. Jason Brennan: We were having a shop meeting at the shop in Lansing, and we've been having problems, with that I created with people with technicians thinking I was looking over their shoulder too much and telling 'em how to do their jobs. And they really didn't. They were experienced certified technicians. Jason Brennan: They didn't need to be told how to do their job. They just needed to be allowed to do their job. But then I felt that I didn't I felt that they didn't want to be held accountable, which was true in some cases. They some of 'em, you know, may maybe didn't want to be held a hundred percent accountable to the outcome of the repairs that they were doing. Jason Brennan: So I kind of felt like I was stuck. I had it like there was a catch 22 there. I have to get involved because if I don't, then the technician who's doing the repair isn't gonna want to be held accountable to the outcome of the repair. So I just need to make sure it doesn't go wrong. That was the wrong approach. Jason Brennan: So eventually I figured out what the right approach was, and we had a shop meeting where it was almost like a mutiny, I think, you know, where everybody in the whole shop called me out in public and said you're looking over our shoulder all the time. You're telling us what to do. We don't like that. Jason Brennan: It's really a, it was almost a toxic environment, I think, because of that kind of thing. And so I, I just said to him, all right, you guys wanna, you know, you're right. I shouldn't be getting involved in these repairs. You know what you're doing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you a deal right now. I'm gonna just trust you to do your jobs. Jason Brennan: But I don't want to be, I don't want to hear I don't want to get any flack about or hear any, you know, I want to hear your opinions, but I don't want to get a bunch of pushback when I try to make a change in the business operationally or growth wise. Or equipment wise or anything that we've already discussed, or maybe it's not your department, so we haven't discussed it, but any of these decisions I make, I just want you guys to trust me to make the right decision. Jason Brennan: And I'm gonna make mistakes just like you guys do sometimes, but I need you to trust me as your leader to take us to the right direction. And if you can do that for me, then I will trust you to do your jobs and I will hold you accountable to the outcome and you can hold me accountable to the outcome you know, 'cause the outcome. Jason Brennan: If I don't do things right, I is, you know, outcome. The outcome if you don't do something right, is a, could be a pretty bad situation as far as a car repair goes, or a customer service situation if you're a service advisor. But the outcome. Of, of me making a wrong decision could be really great, or it could be really catastrophic as far as, you know, destroying the whole business or making the business super successful. Jason Brennan: So believe me, I have a lot, I know that we had that, I have a lot in the line with my decision, so I take 'em seriously. I know you guys too do too. And that's the deal that was the deal we made and that was a turning point in that shop. Michael Smith: Yeah, I wanna reflect on that, Jason. I don't want that to go by the folks that are listening. Michael Smith: You made a huge cultural pivot with that meeting. I mean, the idea that you came to conclude that the masters don't want you to tell them what to do, which is absolute psychology, right? It's like we're good at what we do and all we're gonna, when we ask you for help, come give it to us. If we don't leave us alone. Michael Smith: It's very much of a master's mentality, and the fact that you are willing as a master to give them the grace to have that space and then say to them, this is about trust, and make that a topic culturally. And then they feel trusted and you asked them to give you trust back, and then you developed a brand, you, your relationship pivoted in that meeting. Michael Smith: You guys adopted a new way of having a relationship together. And I love your reflection. It was a turning point and it's worked out, right? Once you trusted them and they trusted you, they're, they took off and did their jobs and you didn't have to help 'em. You know, the results have shown, right? Michael Smith: So I, I just didn't want that to go by folks about what a moment that was in the development of your company and what a massively good decision you made to let go boss, right? You let go, you gave it back to him and said, okay, I'm gonna trust you. I will leave you alone. I was trying to help, but I'll leave you alone, let you do your thing. Michael Smith: And then they ran with it, which is fantastic, right? Jason Brennan: It's, yeah. Thank you for pointing that out. That 'cause I didn't think of it in terms of mastery back then. I didn't even know anything about that. You know who I can, who I owe that. I had been dealing with those issues for a while, and then it came up in a meeting where I had to deal with it on the spot. Jason Brennan: But I had been talking to my dad about it. He owned a plumbing company. I helped him build growing up. And and honestly, I, if he's listening, I apologize in advance, dad, if you're listening, but his company had a horrible culture, but it's and it wasn't on purpose. He's a great guy, super nice guy. Jason Brennan: But it was really a, what we call old school, I guess, you know, and just do your job and I'll do my job and we'll all just be quiet and do our job. That was their cult, their whole entire culture. And that's it. But when I brought to his attention that people had I had the feeling that they were, people were unhappy that I was telling 'em how to do their jobs and get too involved. Jason Brennan: He said something to me like, well, nobody likes to be told how to do their job. And that. Or guys that are good at what they're doing. Like he was, I think we were talking about plumbers. He said, well, yeah, when I was a plumber, I didn't like people telling me how to do plumbing. That's why I went to code school and all this other stuff. Jason Brennan: I, I knew what I was doing. Could kind of feel like an insult when you're trying to help somebody. Sometimes to them it could be perceived as an insult. Michael Smith: Yeah, you're right on. That's exactly what it's perceived as. It's like, don't you, it raises these intuitive natural questions, don't you trust me, first of all, and secondly mm-hmm. Michael Smith: Do you question my skills? Do you think I can't figure this out if you leave me alone and you're not saying any of that. You're not saying a single one of those things you're actually trying to help. Right. But that's not how it's processed on the receiving end. So gr great conversation and kudos to dad. Michael Smith: What a great comment. 'cause he is right on Works for plumbers, works for carpenters, works for business people too. I mean, it's white collar, blue collar people. It's human. It's human. Yeah. And it's wonderful story. So thank you for that. That was great. And thanks dad. So Kent Bullard: I have to commend you on your attention to preparation before you made some of these steps, you know, you you leveraged a lot of your assets, you know, looking at people, looking at the financial aspect of it. Kent Bullard: What do you think some of your strongest assets were as you were building and expanding, and what were some of the assets you were surprised to discover could be leveraged as you were expanding? Jason Brennan: Strongest assets and ones I discovered, I guess I would say that honestly the mo, the biggest asset was the people we had in place already because that was what allowed me to even do it at all. Jason Brennan: I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have been able to expand the business without the people we had there. And I made sure that everybody. That, that, you know, I wouldn't have done it if I didn't feel like everybody who worked for me at the time was somebody I would never wanna replace or lose. And that they would all work as a team to help each other and help me fulfill our mission, you know, or and allow us to expand. Jason Brennan: So biggest asset, I guess, is the team that we had at the time and still have most of Jason Brennan: yeah, so, so, and then assets we discovered, I think I had been working since I had been working partially remote before the expansion. Partly outta convenience and partly because, or inefficiency, and partly because I wanted to test my ability to not be there and have the operations run well. Jason Brennan: I had developed ways of. Ways of not having to be there, ways to work remote. So leveraging technology, you know, zoom like the, like we're doing now, we're on a, we're on an electronic meeting, we're on a Zoom meeting or a podcast, whatever it is. So being able to, you know, being able to work from my car if I had to, or a cell phone or a laptop or whatever remotely. Jason Brennan: I had sort of already set that up and I didn't realize, I didn't even realize how well that would work until I was at the second store all the time and didn't really need to drive all over the place to bring people, pieces of paper or whatever. So I guess just leveraging the technology that we had in place. Kent Bullard: I like that you kind of had to think of new ways of doing things and, you know, circumstance. Thankfully kind of pushed you to try some of these new things, but I think it's interesting, you know, as you go to expand, I always talk about input versus output. You know, you wanna be able to change your input so you have a much greater output. Kent Bullard: Right. And right. That, that is, I think part of the challenge you have to overcome is thinking I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do two times the work I'm gonna do two times the better choices or better work. So they, you have a much higher outcome. I'm curious to know leveraging those assets and kind of expanding, what was one of the, because you're essentially developing a new way of doing things, right? Kent Bullard: What was one of the biggest developmental challenges you faced as you shifted into this growth strategy? Jason Brennan: That's a good one. I guess. Jason Brennan: Developmental challenges. I don't know if it's a, you know, what you would define as a developmental challenge, but I might just be, I might be developmentally challenged in general. I don't know. But Kent Bullard: that is Kent Bullard: not, I wanna clarify that as now what I'm, then you can go in there if Michael Smith: you want to, but I wouldn't go there to fire you. Jason Brennan: Anyway, you know, I went back to work a lot more hours. I had, I'll tell you one thing that was hard, it was that I went from working at one point in my career a hundred hours a week. 'cause I was doing everything the wrong way and had to subsidize my wrong ways of doing things and mistakes with my extra, with extra time personally. Jason Brennan: And then I then I got used to working like anywhere from like 20 to 30 hours a week. I felt like I was only working 20, 30 hours a week. I was probably working 40 hours a week, but it was not necessarily, you know, not very stressful because I would just make my own schedule and do my own thing and not have a whole lot that I had to commit to. Jason Brennan: Could have days off whenever I needed to or wanted to without a lot of notice. And then I went back to, for a short period of time, you know, there was like a month of 80 to a hundred hour weeks again. Michael Smith: Which is interesting too, 'cause you shift, your mindset has shifted away from being in the business, but you make an acquisition and in the case of the way you did the first acquisition or the second shop, right? Michael Smith: You had to go back into it. You were right back at the front counter again. You're right back into the store management role again, which was, you know. Jason Brennan: Exactly. And I think the answer to Kent's question is I've never opened a second store and I, it was so long ago that I, that when I started the first one, you know it was kind of a slow organic growth. Jason Brennan: Thing I started as a tech. It was just me. I had a few piece of equipment and I grew it slowly and it had, I had done that over the course of 18 years, so I didn't have a checklist or anything of what I needed to do. I didn't even remember everything I did. So when I went into opening a second shop, I tried to prepare and make checklists and all that stuff. Jason Brennan: And I, you know, back to assets, one of the assets I think I biggest assets is colleagues, friends in the business. I got some checklists from them and some advice from them, but I still went, you know, every situation's different though. So when I went into it, you're right, Michael, I was right back into the operation, running the store while I was trying to finish remodeling and stuff. Jason Brennan: And things didn't go as planned. I wanted to open up right away. I had a really good technician who started before we opened with me. That was an, that was another big asset. He came in and totally, you know, he did, he just, I didn't need to tell him what to do a lot. He just kind of knew how the shop needed to be set up to run for maximum success. Jason Brennan: So, anyway, him and I were here before we opened and after we opened just nonstop reorganizing facility, improving setting up computer, we were still setting up computers and putting stuff together, you know, after we had already opened. So it was kind of. It was kind of messy the way we did it, but it worked. Jason Brennan: So, Michael Smith: yeah you cleaned it up. So let me just go forward now you've got store one, 18 years, store two, intense, quick, open, build it, learn the hard way. Now you go to store three. Just give us a quick overview of was that the best of both worlds? Was did it look like one or two, something brand new? What did you do? Michael Smith: It was, what did you step in next? Right. So Jason Brennan: that was, yeah, it was a little it went a little smoother. Okay. It, well, it went a lot smoother actually. Okay. So it was a a purchase from a guy retiring. That one never closed. It's remained open the whole time. That was a little bit of a challenge. Jason Brennan: That was a different challenge than the one that was already closed. I had a little bit of time to do whatever I could have chosen when to reopen. I was able to choose when to reopen that store. The third one, I came in with better checklists. Better conversations with the current owner and kind of, I felt like I was, I definitely was more prepared. Jason Brennan: I had a whole plan laid out to how I wanted to do it, but the biggest challenge there was I had never taken over a store that was, you know, running. It's kind of when when people were a would ask me how it was going in the first couple or three weeks or month or whatever, I would say, well, it's it's kinda like trying to change the engine of an airplane that's still in the middle, still in, in the air. Jason Brennan: You know, it's because it, had they had all paper repair orders. They didn't use computer well, they sort of used computers. They had a secretary that would recreate handwritten repair orders in the computer in Mitchell. So that was kind of weird. The owner would write service in the shop. He had a big long desk in the shop and his desk was standing in front of that desk. Jason Brennan: That was his job all day in the shop with impact wrenches going and everything. And since we weren't able to close it, or we didn't wanna close it, I should say, for any long period of time, for really any period of time that we, that's how we operated for, you know, I worked with him alongside him and my store manager, myself and my store manager worked alongside him for probably about a month, I would say so. Jason Brennan: Right. We always, we knew going into it that we're gonna wanna. Implement all of our technology and systems there, but it was almost like we had to run like two systems simultaneously. It was really chaotic because there were repair orders that were all on paper and different, you know, notes highlighted with different colors that we didn't know what they meant and all kinds of crazy stuff. Jason Brennan: And then we, you know, any new repair orders were started in tech metric. So it was kind of, it was kind of hard because we had all these clipboards with repair orders on 'em, floating around, and we had repair orders in the system, and they are in tech metrics. So we never knew where it was, whether it was, you know, people would, we'd forget. Jason Brennan: Wa was this one in Tech Metric or is that a handwritten clipboard one and then, or is it maybe both? A little bit of, you know, a little bit of both. Right. It was just. Crazy. Michael Smith: Did you manage to crazy keep the team through this? Did the team stay? Because that's quite a transition on the fly, right? We did. Michael Smith: You're changing wings and engines while you're up in the air, and that's stressful on the people that were dialed into the old model too. Right. How'd you do with that? How did, how'd you do it though? Jason Brennan: It was well, that would've liked to have conversations with the employees before, and I would've pushed harder for that if I had to do it again. Jason Brennan: If I, or when we do it again before the transaction occurred, right before we bought the place, before we sealed the deal, and a couple things that went wrong, I didn't push hard enough for, 'cause it really would, there would've been no bad effect I don't think if I came in and talked to the employees before the deal was inked and the old owner was afraid to do it. Jason Brennan: I didn't push him to do it. But I should have pushed a little harder for that. So anyway, how it went is I came in there one day and the owner said, Hey, this is the new owner. I'm selling the place to him, but I'm gonna be around for a while to help make sure transition goes. Jason Brennan: Okay. And then I met all the guys and talked to him and they were pretty nervous at first, which is to be expected. I think it's understandable. So, I was there every day, so I was able to continually have conversations with them. I made sure I did a, you know, one-on-one intro meeting between me and them. Jason Brennan: And, so it was, but it was pretty chaotic. 'cause I was doing all that stuff. Trying to answer your question, I kept everybody, we did let one guy go after a while, but we kept everybody from day one. And so, Michael Smith: so the guy that went was released on your terms? Not them running out the front door. Michael Smith: Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Jason Brennan: Right. He was attacked. We used, decided to let 'em go and Michael Smith: yeah. Not your kind of tech, right? Mm-hmm. Jason Brennan: Right. Yeah. So, so it so we were dealing with that. I was aware that would be a pretty disastrous if everybody just walked out. Mm-hmm. Michael Smith: Yeah, Jason Brennan: somebody, it Michael Smith: can be Jason Brennan: somebody else I know in the industry and Michael Smith: they, I was gonna say, we have a friend that did that Right. Michael Smith: Day one, nobody was in the shop. It's like, oh, that's not what you all said, but okay. How'd customers move through store two and store three? How did you do both of those transitions? The customer side, you bought an, a dead one that people used to drive by and stop at. Did how, you know, how'd you go back after that market? Michael Smith: And then how did the owner maybe help you with the second one? What, how did you try to lose as few customers in the third one too? Because this is fascinating case studies, right? Jason Brennan: It's a good question. So the first acquisition, so our second store, we I drafted a letter kind of an intro letter from me, no, actually it was an intro letter from the old owner. Jason Brennan: I showed it to him and said, Hey, what do you think about this? And it basically said, Hey thanks for being a customer for, shoot, I think it was 20, 25 years or something. He had the place, maybe 30 even. Thanks for being a customer for years. I just wanna let you introduce you to the new owner. I'm retiring and this the new owner and it had both of our pictures on it. Jason Brennan: And we used to do some of our own mailers. So that one we did old school, we just, we got the customer list out of the customer out of Mitchell, printed it off put 'em on envelopes and we have a little folding machine. We just printed these things on eight and a half by 11 paper. And it was kind of a, like I said, just an intro, introducing the new owner letter, give him a chance, he's a good guy, blah, blah, blah. Jason Brennan: And then I had him sign it. He said, yeah, that sounds real good. So he signed it and we folded 'em up, mailed 'em out to all the existing customers and. It worked out really well. We put a coupon in there too. Mm-hmm. You know, so, Michael Smith: Can I just reflect style wise, that was a very familiar kind of a thing rather than a big old fancy, you know, multicolor shiny advertising looking thing. Michael Smith: It was a letter, you know, it's a folded letter from the two owners saying, Hey, we care about you guys. Come back, we'll take care of you. Give us a try. I love that. Very familiar. I'm not surprised it worked. Jason Brennan: Yeah. Michael Smith: So that's really good. Jason Brennan: Yeah, it was really well received. People, I was surprised at the response. Jason Brennan: We didn't track it, but I was here every day and we get a lot of phone calls. Michael Smith: Fantastic. Fantastic. Jason Brennan: From that letter. Michael Smith: Yeah. So the second Jason Brennan: one, one just, people stopped by. The second one's Michael Smith: rolling. Oh, I'm sorry, brother. Go ahead. I didn't mean to get in the way, so, Jason Brennan: yeah. People even stopped by. Yeah. Yeah. Jason Brennan: They, based on that letter, they came by and said, Hey, I just wanted to meet you. You're the new guy, and. It was kind of cool. Michael Smith: Yeah, Jason Brennan: that is cool. So that's, so they just, our normal deployed our normal marketing strategy that we already used at the other store with the same web company. And that took a while to get off the ground. Jason Brennan: That was something unexpected. I was thinking, well, let's do this, these Google ad words, that's our main new customer acquisition marketing method. And I took it for granted that our Lansing campaign was working real well. And then the guys, they were like, well, congratulations. Yeah, we'll do your campaign for you. Jason Brennan: But, and then when I asked 'em, well, how long before it. Becomes, you know, reaches max maximum effectiveness. 'cause they had brought up the fact that it takes time to build a Google AdWords campaign. That just doesn't happen overnight. They do research and they do testing and they make changes and then they just repeat that process and they said, oh, well, between three to six months, you know, I'm like, well, I went, oh, that's not good. Jason Brennan: You know, Michael Smith: is there Jason Brennan: any way to make it one to Michael Smith: two months? Is there, Jason Brennan: They really did a good job. That's good. That's that. They did, they exceeded expectations. Good. But it did take a while and we did have to do and still are doing mailers. To supplement that. So, and then you're, so go ahead. Jason Brennan: You were gonna ask a question Michael Smith: about, oh no, I was just gonna say thank you for all that. That's a rich information base. What did you do differently with the store that was already underway? Now you've got customers that are maybe even the next day driving in to the driveway expecting their carter be repaired by the old owner. Michael Smith: Right. How'd you, how did you handle that one? It's a different model. So, Jason Brennan: That one, yeah, it was interesting 'cause there was yeah, the re repairs were in the store never closed. So, you know, I walked in and the secretary, we did have a secretary credit. So I take back what I said earlier. We didn't keep everybody, there was a secretary who actually was kind of becoming the face of the business. Jason Brennan: She would talk to customers, take their key, receive their keys, give 'em their invoices. The owner would be the one who would talk to about repairs, but she was the one they saw when they came in and picked up their car. So, she decided she didn't like the ownership change and just, I never got to meet her. Jason Brennan: She just decided she wouldn't come back to work. That's once she found out it was being, well, that's, Michael Smith: that's tough. That's the face of the business at that point. That's a tough one to lose. So Jason Brennan: yeah, ki kind of, you know, a lot of the owners or a lot of the customers knew the bill the owner, but a lot of 'em also like the secretary. Jason Brennan: And so I got a lot of questions about it. Where's the secretary? Where is she? Where is she? And you know, oh, it's too bad she's not here. I like working with her, but I just reassured people, my, myself and the manager I hired to work there, just re reassured people that we would take good care of 'em and. Michael Smith: Were you sitting at Jason Brennan: the Michael Smith: front Jason Brennan: desk Michael Smith: at that point? Did you take that role and you were the new face at the front? Jason Brennan: Well, it was myself and the manager. I hired both and the new manager too. Michael Smith: Yeah. There you go. Okay. Jason Brennan: Yeah. Awesome. So, Michael Smith: yep, Jason Brennan: we were and he didn't last too long. I ended up but I didn't have to go through four total people, you know, and in Hobert it was, you know, three people, and then the fourth one stuck in the Crown Point store. Jason Brennan: It was one person, and then the second guy stuck, Hey, the next Michael Smith: store, it'll be a first time stick. Right? I hope Jason Brennan: so. Kent Bullard: I'm curious to know, because a lot of this has to do with managing people, right? So you've got the dynamic of there's people already in existence, they already have relationships with the customers. Kent Bullard: There, there's also what people do I not have that I do need and I'm curious to know what your thoughts are or what your, needs are when you're looking for people at this point. So you've been through a few different managers. What's one of those, one of the key things you're looking for in a manager as you're expanding and growing? Kent Bullard: So you're going out to the to the interviewing part of it. What characteristics are you looking for? Jason Brennan: Well, ideally, that's a good question. I, ideally, I'd like to, you know, unless the fourth store we acquire has a good existing manager, which would be nice if I was gonna have to just hire a new manager, I'd like to promote someone from within my company, one of my assistant managers. Jason Brennan: I'd like to we run two people on the counter at all of our shops. A manager and an assistant manager. And the assistant managers are supposed to learn to be able to run the store when the manager's not there. So they're. They're gearing up and training to become a manager if they want to. Jason Brennan: They don't have to, but if they want to and they've gained the skills necessary, then they're able to be promoted. You know, they're definitely gonna be considered for promotion to store manager, either when we acquire a store or somebody else moves to a different store and now they're the manager there. Jason Brennan: So, you know, that's the first thing I'd do. But if I have to hire if I have to, and I have had to just hire a store manager off the street, that's a good question. I'm not sure if I have the right answer. 'cause it didn't work out in the first shot for me any of the times. But if they've run a store before an auto repair shop before, that'd definitely be a plus. Jason Brennan: Well, Kent Bullard: maybe they were, well, I guess so. Another way you could ask this is. What are some of the reasons, and not to get personal, I don't wanna get personal for these people, but what were some of the underlying reasons why that manager didn't work out? Because then you can kind of say, well, okay, that's something I don't want for the next one. Jason Brennan: I think that some of the reasons they didn't work out is their expectations. Were not, you know, really properly aligned with the reality of the situation. And that could be that could be my fault for not setting the expectation or making them, you know, making it clear to them what the situation was really gonna look like. Jason Brennan: So the, you know, one guy we had who came in from a dealership had the right personality type, I think, and the right characteristics, but he ultimately I think he expected. This was in the Hobert shop. I, you know, he, I think he expected it to grow a lot faster. He was a little overconfident, I believe, in his ability to grow the store to a level where he'd be making the kind of income that he thought he should make in a short amount of time. Jason Brennan: And then I think he underestimated just, he just underestimated the amount of work that it was gonna be to help me grow the store from. The level where it was when we bought it, where it needed to be. So, Michael Smith: got Jason. Jason, can I grab onto a couple things that you said here that are super important. Michael Smith: Why? And I want to cut some slack for you, for everybody listening to you too. You know, you took the blame, I guess, in a way for expecta expectations setting with him that you could make it more clear what it was really gonna feel like. And I just wanna cut you some slack as your friend, right? And somebody who knows a lot about folks that doing what you're doing, there's more unknown when you buy a new store than you wished. Michael Smith: There was there, and no matter how prepared you are, how many checklists you have, there's a whole bunch of wrinkles in there that no, no due diligence process can be thorough enough to figure out. And so all of the projections are theoretical. And I'm not trying to, you know, put too much risk in here, but it's not as easy as it looks. Michael Smith: And, you know, to cut us all some slack, it's difficult to say this is the pathway that we've, you know, we have 90% assurance. It's got you get into it and stuff starts popping and somebody you didn't expect to quits and a whole wave of customers leave for reasons nobody would've ever seen coming and all kinds of crazy stuff like that. Michael Smith: So I, you know, there's lessons you've learned. I don't want to get by for people. It's in, it's awesome. It's your character that you took the blame for that, but man, is it hard to figure something out that you're doing for the first time with so many moving variables? And that's maybe one of the characteristics I just wanted to catch on the way by was part of the expectations that they might have is that, hey, this is the best we can do. Michael Smith: To see what we think is gonna happen, but we're gonna have to be flexible. You know, we're gonna have to be resilient and persevere for a few months until we really do figure out how to dial this in. And it may not look like this. Are you okay with that? And if they say yes then at least that you have that door open that they don't get frustrated because it wasn't what I expected it to be. Michael Smith: Right. Because you kind of set that up in your conversation in the first place. So, Kent Bullard: and this is where yeah. Humility and grace come into play. You know, Jason, you were talking earlier about the hours that you worked. Right? And just bringing this to this point I wrote, I drew a diagram here. Kent Bullard: 'cause I was looking at I thought it was interesting you said I worked a hundred hours because I didn't know how to run the, this shop. At that point I didn't have these competencies. And then I finally got it dialed in and I was working less. And then I took on a new challenge and then I ended up working. Kent Bullard: More again. And I mean, this follows the mastery path, the mastery model a lot. And I think it's the same thing with these managers or the people that you elevate into these positions. You know, if you're hiring from within, is that yeah, there's gonna be things you don't know and it's gonna be difficult and hard and you gotta give some grace to allow for the time and the space to learn those competencies. Jason Brennan: Yeah. Yeah. Really when we think of what, you know, with what, back to what Michael said for a second actually about setting expectations and the fact that we really don't know we can set, we can set goals or we can talk about a, in an ideal scenario or a likely scenario, but we don't know actually what's gonna happen. Jason Brennan: Exactly what's gonna happen and how it's gonna look and feel, and, I did do that with the, I did. Now that I think about it, I did tell this guy exactly what you said, you know, or sort of what you said, that we don't know exactly what's gonna happen. It's, you know, might be a little rocky at times. Jason Brennan: Your base pay is a pay that you told me that you can live on this pay. Well that's good because it might happen for a month, or it might have to be that way for eight months. We don't know how long it's gonna take to grow the store to where you can make more money, you know, your desired pay as opposed to your base pay. Jason Brennan: And I think this guy was just a little overconfident and, or a little, maybe, just whatever you wanna say. But with that part, one lesson I learned. From that particular guy managing the store was that I, he had been doing well and then he got demotivated when things weren't going the way that he thought they should. Jason Brennan: We had a really good month and then followed by a really slow month, and that's when he got demotivated. And I actually was, I had been ignoring my Lansing store, which was fine I guess, but really just, they did need me for a few things here and there, and I just couldn't give them any time. So once I got that guy, once that guy got, that manager, got his feet in the ground in her second shop, I ended up, you know, going, once I felt like he had his feet in the ground, I went back to Lansing and spent a bunch of time there repairing some equipment and things like that because I realized we had never, that, I just always did it and we never assigned it to anybody or had any procedures or processes in place for equipment maintenance. Jason Brennan: And since everybody was. No, nobody wanted to bother me. I found out that I think it was like a, at the six month point of me hardly ever being there, I found out that there's a bunch of broken stuff and that I, that no one was telling me about. So, one of the techs called me, he goes, Hey I hate to bother you, but this thing's broke. Jason Brennan: I think it was one of the sleds on the alignment rack was broken. And then he said, well, yeah, and by the way, also the tire machine doesn't work right. We have to keep, you know, Kent Bullard: well Jason Brennan: we're at it. Here's Kent Bullard: another thing on list, Jason Brennan: you know, I was wondering should we call someone to fix this stuff or are you gonna stop by and help us with it or what? Jason Brennan: And a lot of it just fell apart from lack of maintenance. 'cause I wasn't there and I never put together a shop maintenance checklist or a procedure. So we now have that in all the stores. But I spent like a month. Myself. 'cause I thought I was able to, I really shouldn't have, but I spent like a month fixing and refurbishing replacing stuff and then developing a maintenance checklist and assigning it to people. Jason Brennan: And then by the time I got back to the hobert shop, the second store, I found out that pretty much the whole time I had been gone, the leadership in the second store, which was the manager, had been super discouraged and even started undermining the company and telling people that he thought, giving people his opinions about where he thought the place was headed, which is nowhere good. Jason Brennan: And it's not gonna work out here. I don't think this growth plan's gonna work. I'm not, maybe you should. He even told one of my techs that maybe he should start looking for a job elsewhere. This was all happening while I was gone for that mostly gone for that one month period of time. So I walked into it and figured, and luckily I have a part-time guy that works for me who does helps with operations management and recruiting. Jason Brennan: Max is his name. He's the one who figured he was there more than I was and he clued me in on it and he goes, Hey, when you get back here, we got some problems to deal with. And then one of my techs was already out had already gotten job offers by the time I caught wind that any of this kind of stuff had occurred and we were able to keep 'em. Jason Brennan: But morale, yeah, close call. Morale was super in the dumpster and I had to come in, myself and Max both had to come in and bring that back up. We had to fire both the manager and the assistant manager. They were kind of cohorts in the, the eing of the shop. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. Jason Brennan: And Michael Smith: You have so many rich experiences, Jason, and you know a couple, I just wanna catch on the way by. Michael Smith: As you scaled, you've developed the ability to grow from within. And this idea that people can career path with you and grow and stay and do more and achieve and be recognized and take on more, very much of a human development path that's satisfying to people. And it means that as you do that, you know, the fourth store, the fifth store, the sixth store, you have a capacity not to have to go outside and bring in people that and I'll just say this, don't have the trust in you and the system because they come from the outside. Michael Smith: And when you groom 'em from the inside and people know your character and trust you in the system and know when something goes wrong that it's gonna get fixed, right? The patience, I mean, the demonstration of this is the patience that your team gave to you in trust, just to not even you know, it's being the beloved type owner that you are. Michael Smith: They don't wanna let you down. They know you're busy. They don't call. But the other side of that is the fact that, you know, they're not gonna blow their lives up. At some point somebody finally says, okay, maybe we should just call 'em and let 'em know, and then you're running and fix it, right? And again, one more thing is you scale. Michael Smith: Just these are lessons that you've learned that are magnificent to share. As you continue to scale, you might have somebody other than you as the new store landing receiver, right? Somebody who drops in, who's a super. Internally developed, knows the fine tuned way can go to the new store, make sure the transitions occur, and you're not lost in that system, right? Michael Smith: Because you're the only guy historically that could do that. But now you have a scalable model where you can have a, an expert follow you through the new transactions. And all of this is just fantastic lessons and stories that you're sharing. And I just wanna catch some of this on the way by you. Michael Smith: You've really learned a lot in the way you've gone through this. And it's, and thank you for sharing all that. It's great experiences and you've mastered a lot, even in the solutions. The way you've solved them is full of rich culture building concepts too. So thank you for this. Jason. You're, I really like watching you go. Michael Smith: It's great stuff. Kent Bullard: So it's, thanks Michael. It's a lot of, evidence of patience and persistence and growth in your leadership. And I think that's where I wanna take the conversation a little bit is to look at, you know, how have you grown as a leader between, you know, your early career and the first location, and then now where you're up to three locations. Jason Brennan: So could you, I'm sorry, can Kent Bullard: you repeat that? How has your leader, how do you feel or what are the ways that your leadership has changed or evolved over the years? Jason Brennan: Oh yeah, man, I'll tell you a lot. It's sometimes I learn by, unfortunately, I'm one of those kind of guys that learns by mistakes a lot. Jason Brennan: So that's why I have so many of these stories. And I, but you know what when you're a better leader, you make less mistakes like that less of those kinds of mistakes. So I, there was a huge incentive for me to grow as a leader and, one of the, one of the biggest incentives was was just realizing that man when I re, when I realized that a lot of the, a lot of the problems I was having was due to poor, were due to poor leadership. Jason Brennan: I really wanted to learn. So I started as the kind of, the phases I went through was I started kind of like your traditional old school boss. That was how I viewed leadership. It used to, Kent Bullard: well, Jason Brennan: yeah, well, yeah, my dad and people who I'd worked for as a technician, you know, usually, and any of the places I worked, you tried not to talk to the boss. Jason Brennan: 'cause if you're talking to the boss, that means there was some kind of problem and, you know, it that was the culture I came from. So that was how I led. And it, it used to work. It was just never a good idea. Even if it worked, I don't think it was great. It doesn't work anymore. 'cause we have a technician shortage and for various other reasons, people just they won't put up with that kind of positional leadership mentality anymore and stay working for you. Jason Brennan: They'll just leave and find somebody else to work for. So I couldn't have continued doing that even if I wanted to, but I'm glad I'm not doing that anymore. So I would just tell people what to do and expect 'em to do it like I would do if I was somebody's employee. And it didn't happen. Then I evolved into more of a, kind of a learning mode and I made a bunch of mistakes there too. Jason Brennan: I maybe gave people too much slack or became too close friends with 'em, and I was just figuring out how to, how do I. I was thinking to myself, how do I how do I tell people things in a nicer way than just saying, just do this? And I thought that was all it was about was just how I said it to 'em. Jason Brennan: Maybe they didn't like the way that I said it, or maybe I needed them to ask 'em more nicely or something. And really, that wasn't all that's good to do, but that's not what it was all about either. What it really I think became is, and some of it I went to Michael Smith's leadership intensive a couple of years ago, I think it was, and all the things I'd been experimenting, the style of leadership or style of management that I had been experimenting with, all kind of came together in my mind when I took Michael Smith's class read some books, you know, and among other things. Jason Brennan: And then kind of understood that people are. People are all different. They might perceive the way that you say things to them in different ways. They're looking for the good employees, or I should say employee ideal employees. They're looking for some kind of career path to mastery. And if we can give that to them and convey that we're giving that to them, and ask them what it, what they, what it is that they actually want out of their career, and align our company's goals with their goals so that we all succeed together, then then they'll, you know, they'll wanna, people want to go to battle for you and do what you need 'em to do when they understand that it's good for everybody. Jason Brennan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, Michael Smith: and Jason and you and they bring their own energy to it. You're Bri Yeah. They wanna it, they're not, they do it because they wanna do it. Yeah. Jason Brennan: Not 'cause you told 'em to do Michael Smith: it. Right. You're not bribing them, you're not threatening them, you're not cajoling them. They come to work with their own motivation because you're all going in the same direction, which is powerful. Kent Bullard: So I'm cur I wanna know, if you could go back to young Jason before a lot of these challenges and pursuits that you've had what's the one lesson that you would want young Jason to know? Yeah, great question. Jason Brennan: That's a good question. Michael Smith: Depends on how far back leadership wise. Yeah. Back in the fifth grade or I'm Jason Brennan: just, yeah, sorry. Jason Brennan: If I think back to the beginning of my, the beginning of a business ownership I don't know if there's one, one that I can really. Point to, to say that's the one that would've made my life a lot easier. But there's a few main ones. Don't open a business if you don't, if you don't have any, at least some basic accounting and some business management principles. Jason Brennan: And don't go into business under capitalize. I would've told myself that, you know, have a business plan, get some industry expertise involved, get some basic basic business management and accounting training that, that, that should have done that first, you know, would've made my life a lot easier. Jason Brennan: I probably would've shaved I probably realistically could have shaved, you know, seven to 10 years off of the time it's taken to get to the point where we are now. 'cause I think the first seven to 10 years we just spent spinning our wheels and doing the wrong stuff. So, Kent Bullard: what now at the stage of your personal professional growth, how do you define success? Jason Brennan: Well, that's, it's a hard one. I I thought about that a lot too recently because I've been thinking, because people always ask me, well, where so you're gonna buy another shop pretty soon or build one? Or, what are you gonna do? And then I tell 'em that my goal is to have 10 by 2030, and still gonna do that. Jason Brennan: But I, so I start thinking to myself as I'm getting asked these questions, is that my goal is, does that mean I'm successful when I get to 10 stores? Or and am I not successful now because I haven't, you know, in a, I guess the what's that cliche? It's not about the. It's about the journey, not the destination or something. Jason Brennan: It's kind of a, I've been thinking about that old cliche phrase a lot more lately and thinking that I need to redefine what the, what success means to me. So I'm not exactly sure, but I know it's not, when I hit 10 stores, that's not the definition of success to me anymore. It used to be if you just wanted to say, well, what does it mean to be successful? Jason Brennan: Well, when I'm done with this plan, then I get to 10 stores, that means I'm successful. Well, that mentality could cause some people to think that they're not successful because they haven't achieved that goal yet. And that's not necessarily the case, probably not the case. But that's the way that I've felt before I, I've had those feelings and I think that comes from. Jason Brennan: You know, driving myself too hard over the years and maybe being a little too self-critical. So, I'm redefining what success means to me and part of what it means, I know for sure is what I said earlier about facilitating the growth of other people. It's it just makes me happy to see, and I feel successful when I do that. Jason Brennan: So that's definitely one of the things that defines success in my mind, is that I'm helping other people who achieve their goals and that they are, they're happy to come to work every day. They have a job they like to do, and that's something that I'm helping with, or I'm part a big part of so the number of people I guess I, I guess you could say the more people feel fulfilled in their careers and rise to the top, the more successful I am. Jason Brennan: That's for sure. Michael Smith: Great Kent Bullard: answer. Michael Smith: Great answer. Kent Bullard: So I, I want to end with this question. Michael, do you have any other questions? Michael Smith: No, I was thinking of the last question and how, this is such a segue into that last question. Kent Bullard: I think we're kind of making our way to this point. You know, what's the legacy that you hope to leave at the end of all of this? Michael Smith: When all the dust settles, right? Yeah. Jason Brennan: Well, yeah I've been thinking about that a lot too. When all dust settles and, you know, someday I'm sailing off into the sunset or probably still working on a car, 'cause I like doing that. Whatever I'm doing, whatever that is, whatever it is that I'm doing at the time, I like people to think man, that guy was a really great guy to work for. Jason Brennan: It's too bad he is not my boss anymore. You know, that's just the general thoughts and feelings I like people to have about me and that. We really built a good thing together and I'd like to see that still continue. I'd like to see that even when I retire someday and pass along the torch to someone else to run the business I'm leaving them with a good, a really good solid foundation for even more growth. Jason Brennan: And I'd like to see that, that that we don't lose the family aspect, the family feel to our business where, you know, people help each other because they know that's the right thing to do. And by helping each other and helping customers in the process, we make money and everybody's happy. Jason Brennan: I like to see that kind of thing. Continue. Michael Smith: Yeah. Let just take Jason Brennan: Yeah. Pass beyond me. Michael Smith: Yeah. Follow on question about the company the community legacy impact that the company might leave, what would be a note that you'd like to have the, how does the community see it when you've built it the way you wanted and handed it off to the next steward? Michael Smith: Right. What would you like them to see when they look at the company? Jason Brennan: I'd like to see that, I'd like them to view us as a place where they can a place they can trust that they can rely on. And that we're making a positive impact on the community. Not just, we're not just here to be here or to make some money or whatever it is. Jason Brennan: We're here to that we care about the community. And I would like, so I guess in a nutshell, I would like to leave the. A leave off in a way that. When, let's say whoever takes over for me someday, wants to build a fine tuned auto location in a town that has never had one. They welcome us in with open arms and say, great where do you want to put your shop? Jason Brennan: That's, we love to have you here. That's how I'd like to be viewed by the community. Michael Smith: Fantastic. Jason, fantastic. I Kent Bullard: love that this Kent Bullard: has been such a. Phenomenally enriching conversation. Jason, you've shared a ton of experience and I know that there's a lot of people out there listening who have, are either currently dealing with this or they're gonna deal with these issues, thinking about it. Kent Bullard: And you've given them some reassurance and some insight on how to approach these problems. Thank you so much for being here. Truly. Listeners, if you have questions or comments for us or for Jason, obviously make sure that you join the conversation because we'd love to, to have you a part of this. Kent Bullard: And ask them down in the comments below. If you enjoyed the content here, please like and share. 'cause it helps the algorithm gets it promoted out there. So again, we spread this information and help uplift the industry. And if you want more information about the institute and what we do you can find that at we are the institute.com. Kent Bullard: Jason, thank you so much for being here. Michael Smith: Thank you, Jason. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me. It's good to see you, my friend. You're welcome.  

188 - How Your Auto Repair Shop Can Use AI to Turbo Charge Your Business January 21, 2026 - 00:59:31 Show Summary: Brand strategist Ernie Harker shows auto repair shop owners how AI can quickly produce professional marketing content without expensive designers or long turnaround times. He explains how large language models and image generation work, then demonstrates building a custom GPT trained to match a shop’s brand voice and customer tone. The session also covers AI video avatars that turn photos or short recordings into usable on camera style videos for social posts, FAQs, and internal updates. He stresses responsible use with human review, transparency, and avoiding fabricated testimonials. The main message is that consistent content creation is now faster and easier, giving early adopters a competitive edge.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Ernie Harker, Branding & Keynote Speaker Show Highlights: [00:02:00] – Audience self rates AI experience from beginner to advanced [00:03:00] – AI speeds up marketing collateral without relying on designers [00:05:00] – Creative professionals feel threatened but shops can benefit immediately [00:08:00] – AI makes high quality visuals possible without creative skill [00:10:00] – Clear explanation of how GPT uses context and probability to write [00:12:00] – Quick demo turning a sketch into a usable logo concept [00:14:00] – Photo to video avatars create spokesperson content in minutes [00:18:00] – The hamburger method prompt AI then review and polish [00:24:00] – Live walkthrough building a custom GPT for a shop brand voice [00:40:00] – Avatar workflow in HeyGen upload photo choose voice paste script generate video In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/-9vqJmoF7lU Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, or goodnight depending on when and where you are joining us from today. It is a gorgeous day. Thank you for being here, my friend. I am so excited for this conversation that we are gonna have. My guest today is Ernie Harker. Ernie is er Burn. He is the voice and the power behind the brands that you know and love the brand that we know and love as Maverick. Jimmy Lea: Maverick is my favorite convenience store. Ernie, thank you for all you've done to make the adventure starts here. Ernie is also a member of the north not the Northwest NSA National Speakers Association. We are members together in the Utah chapter called the Mountain West Chapter. And from the first day of meeting Ernie, man, we've been tight, good friends. Jimmy Lea: So excited to have you here with us, Ernie, as we're talking about artificial intelligence, and not only artificial intelligence, but what can a shop owner do in their shop that utilizes artificial intelligence? We're gonna talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. Jimmy Lea: This is, these are things that you can do. Jimmy Lea: These are things that you should do, and this is probably something you might wanna hire somebody to help you to do. Jimmy Lea: And so with that also, those of you who are listening, Ernie has written a book. The book is. Your brand sucks straight and to the point. Ernie, thank you for doing Ernie Harker: this. It's not accusation, it's a probability. Jimmy Lea: Chances are your brand sucks. The beauty of this book is it goes into all the things that you can do to change your brand so that your brand becomes that recognizable source of truth that everybody wants to participate with. Oh. One more shout out right before we get started. My good friend, my good brother, my good friend Sean Tipton, St. Jimmy Lea: Augustine, Florida. Sean, it is good to see you, brother. I'm gonna call you when the webinar's done. It's been a long time. We need to talk. All right. With that, Ernie, I'm gonna turn it over to you. Let's talk about those things that shop owners can use Jimmy Lea: AI in their business. What can we do? Ernie Harker: Absolutely. Let me first start, I wanna get a sense of like, how many of you have some experience with AI chat, GBT, grok, whatever it is. So in the chat, I want you to rate your current familiarity, how you'd rate yourself in in AI kind of savvy. Zero is, I totally suck. 10 is I totally rock. Ernie Harker: Don't even know why I'm listening to this guy. And five, as I've used it, gimme like a range from zero to 10. I just wanna get a sense from like where you are. Let's see. Jimmy Lea: Jimmy's at a seven. Tyler's a 7.5. Evan is at a five. Heather's a five. Mike is a zero curb is a six, a five, a 7.5. Sean thinks he's better than me. Ernie Harker: We've got some familiarity and we've got a handful of people who are like, gosh, you know what, I'm starting from scratch. Let me kinda show you some real quick things that I think are pretty interesting. So last time I'm going, okay, how quickly can I create some marketing materials for the industry that, that look pretty professional? Ernie Harker: 'cause one of the challenges we face as small business owners is. We depend on creative people. I'm gonna say creative people, marketing people to produce the marketing content that we need. Oftentimes that is either expensive or it's time consuming or it's frustrating. I've dealt with creative people my whole life and I know that creative people can tend to be a little bit fickle. Ernie Harker: They want to be, they wanna do things that are cute and pretty and not necessarily driving the bottom line. So what I wanna do is show you I wanna explain to you first, y you can actually create agents level, industry leading marketing collateral just in a flash with ai. And here's some things one of the things I did real quickly is I created like for a Valentine's Day thing, some of us love our cars. Let's talk about like how much we love our cars. Let's give our cars a gift for Valentine's Day. So I quickly created this item. I wanted to convert that to a Instagram post. I wanted to create a billboard. Look at that, skip the flowers, skip the chocolates, give me something that lasts and I created my own company. Ernie Harker: Earnings Automotive. I also wanna could I create a TD commercial? Let's see if I can take, create a TD commercial. Here's the image I created. And I actually made it come alive, Jimmy Lea: Ernie. That is an amazing commercial where we can see her mouth moving. We don't hear anything coming through at the moment. Ernie Harker: Oh, man, it's too bad because man, she's toxin such a sultry voice. I want to buy her shocks that I know that's what she needs and wants Jimmy Lea: right. Ernie Harker: Let's see if I can, I wanna make sure I can like my audio. Ernie Harker: Can you guys hear my audio okay? My Jimmy Lea: voice right? Yeah. Yeah. Your audio's coming through nine by nine. Okay. I think it's just this video. You might need to optimize it for the video setting or something like that. Ernie Harker: Okay. Okay. Lemme give you a little bit of background. Why would you even listen to me? Ernie Harker: When I was 11 years old, my parents got rid of the tv. They carried out their threat. We're gonna get rid of that stupid idiot box my mom called it. So I spent my free time drawing. I got. Pretty good. Now. I still suck when I was a teenager, that Sweet Dragon and Ninja, but I got better and better. Ernie Harker: This was a painting I did for a wedding gift that is not hanging anywhere. It's atrocious. Just to show you, I did suck bad, but my teachers told me to focus on drawing heads and hands and bodies because if I could draw those really well, then I could pretty much draw anything. So I spent a tremendous amount of time instead of watching tv. Ernie Harker: Drawing faces and hands and heads from magazines. My first job out of college was working for an ad agency where I was doing storyboards like this. I would do hundreds of these frames outta my head to represent a scenario in a TV commercial or doing mockups like this that would represent a photograph that the photographer would then use as a reference to make a real photo. Ernie Harker: So this is the kind of stuff I did, and this is for fun. I'm like, I'm gonna do pinups. This is using Adobe Illustrator. I learned how to use Photoshop, Conti, cran watercolors, acrylic paints. Gosh, every freaking medium. I had to learn anatomy. I had to learn composition and textures and all the vocabulary that comes with art. Ernie Harker: So I spent a tremendous amount of time getting really good. These are three of I did portraits of my daughters when they were younger and what's really sad is I spent 30 years drawing and learning to draw and getting really good at drawing. These were some of the I was in, I was at a podcast one time and the host asked me, like my background. Ernie Harker: I told him I was an illustrator. Then he asked if I was any good, so I sketched a picture of him after the event, after my podcast sent it to him. He freaks out. He says, you gotta do this every time. So since that time I've drawn, portraits of people to get their attention or to express my gratitude. Ernie Harker: And about a couple years ago, I've done like hundreds of these. About a couple years ago people started asking me if ai, if I used AI for this. And I'm like, please man, AI can't do this. Do you know how much time and effort I spend getting good at this? And then I realized, holy crap, AI can totally do this. Ernie Harker: The one on the right is me. You may recognize the guy on the left. That's Jimmy. And I'm like, that actually looks what I would do, and it did it in seconds and mine took hours. I'm screwed. And I think a lot of times people look at AI and go, man, I'm, I feel threatened by it. Creative people do. Ernie Harker: They felt threatened by it. And so you're creative people, you're designers, your marketing people. They're the probably the most resistant to using AI tools. But what I want you to think about is get the, this idea that AI has leveled the playing field, where you no longer have to be talented, creatively talented to produce marketing content, promotional content. Ernie Harker: You don't have to have a camera, you don't have to have lights. You don't have to have years of experience learning how to draw or anything like that. You can actually. Do this stuff and if you can do it, man, your marketing people can crush it with this stuff. So first of all, what is generative ai and then how can you use it? Ernie Harker: I'm gonna talk about large language models and just kinda give you a brief intro to what they are and how they work. We'll talk about image generation and also some video generation. Large language models. You see these Claude Gemini, grok, and there's more. There's lots more. And basically what they do is they're trained to speak and understand human language and just give you a background like how they work so you can use them. Ernie Harker: Imagine a generative AI program being trained to watch a text conversation. One conversation is not gonna give them enough information to be able to come up with to understand context, to understand the meaning behind those words. Because computers can identify words and then have a de a dictionary definition of those words, but it really doesn't understand context. Ernie Harker: But if you multiply the training to include like gazillions of conversations now the AI model. The program can start to see patterns and can start to infer meaning behind words. G GPT stands for generative pre-trained transformer. Generative means supposed to be creative, which means oftentimes. You can get frustrated if you're trying to get something out of it that you're being very explicit about and it's not giving you what you want. Ernie Harker: It's trying to be creative, and if you want something that's to change a little bit, but it changes everything. It's meant to be creative, so it won't be giving you the same thing every time. Pre-trained means it's been trained for a specific amount of time, the model's released, and then it's no longer learning. Ernie Harker: In the meantime, the developers are working on the next model to be trained. Then transformer basically means that every word needs to be converted or transformed into a number. So when you say mouse, how does the GPT know? If you're talking about a rodent or a peripheral a computer device, based on context, it will take that word and turn it into a the right number to mean the right thing. So that's what large language models are. And so when I ask like, how are you doing? It'll respond with a, it'll respond with a with copy. That is the next word is a mathematical probability. I am, it thinks of all the English language. What's the likelihood of the next word being octopus? Ernie Harker: I'm octopus. How many times it seen that? None times I am probably doing is probably the next best word I am doing. And then there's probably some other word that follows that because in its learning, it's never seen I am doing, and then that's the it and that's the end. So that's what image generation is. Ernie Harker: That's what large language models are. I'm gonna just jump right into like image generation. It learns the same way we do by looking at lots and lots of pictures. It starts to see the similarities and then it gets really good at seeing those those similarities. And then it will, it can create phenomenal images based on all the things that it's seen and been trained to do. Ernie Harker: So if I wanted to surprise kitten with blue eyes playing with yarn. It could totally give me what I want because it's researched so much an image. When an image is generated, it's not finding something and modifying it. It's not like an image search, it's actually creating something for real. Okay. What I wanna do too to make sure that you guys get the most out of this time is I wanna focus a little bit on like how to use like a video avatar, because I think there's a ton of ways that you guys might be able to do that. Ernie Harker: So video. The same way. If you wanna create an image, oh, I wanna show this to you too. You don't have to be a great artist, to be a great designer. Like I doodled out this little logo I uploaded to Chad, GBT, and I had a little prompt that said, create a logo out of this. This is what it looks like. Ernie Harker: Freaking awesome. I don't have to be a great designer. I can get me most of the way there. I can also use images as a prompt. To describe something that I want, upload this image, and I said, ACHI, I says, describe this image in a way that I can create a new one, but using a bald, handsome guy wearing a red suit, so I get this instead. Ernie Harker: Now, the reason I showed this to you is because oftentimes really creative ideas can be expensive to produce. You have to have hiring models and locations and stuff like that. Generative AI makes it so you don't have to spend money or time finding models looking for locations and things like that. Ernie Harker: So you can be specific about the type of like car or automotive part by typing in the name or model number of that part, and you'll get an image of that. About a year or more ago, you wouldn't be able to do that, but today the AI is so good, you can get very specific content. So you, many of you saw the video of Cecil. Ernie Harker: Hopefully you did. You're not gonna be able to hear him speak. I don't think so, unfortunately. Let's see. AI Cecil Bullard: Hey, shop owners. Ernie Harker: You don't hear 'em, do you? Cecil AI Cecil Bullard: Bullard? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's coming through. It's in the background. Ernie Harker: Okay. AI Cecil Bullard: Slightly mess. Grumpy version of Cecil. Learn how to create videos for social media and training and stuff just like this one in a matter of minutes. AI Cecil Bullard: You'll learn from Ernie Harker, one of the smartest minds in branding and AI for local businesses. He is gonna show you how shops are using AI right now to get more cars in the bays, more calls on the phone, and more money in the bank without hiring more staff. It's Wednesday, January 21st from 11 to 12 Mountain Time, and it's completely free. AI Cecil Bullard: Just head over to we are the institute.com/upcoming events and click join us. Ernie Harker: Okay. So what you saw is I just took a picture from the internet. I uploaded that picture of Cecil, and then I, import it into a video generating software, and it created that video. He didn't have to be on camera. I'm not, I'm gonna, what, Jimmy, what are you thinking? Jimmy Lea: So a comment just came up and this is true. Everybody on this call knows exactly what Cecil sounds like, and that didn't sound like Cecil. Why? Ernie Harker: Because I didn't have a voice sample to use to train the model. Jimmy Lea: So you could make my voice come across as a sultry female. Absolutely. You could make Cecil be a sultry female. Jimmy Lea: You could. You could make Cecil speak Cantonese. Ernie Harker: Yes. I can have him speak probably from one of 127 different languages. So Jimmy Lea: mind blown. Ernie Harker: But in order to if you wanna do a clone of yourself, Jimmy Lea: yeah, Ernie Harker: you'd have to record yourself speaking. For about three minutes and then you upload that. I didn't have any samples of Cecil, but that's how easy it really is. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Big deal. That's easy. Ernie Harker: Which is what's awesome about it, is that if you have a video of yourself, 'cause I'm not sure, let me see if I can move on a little bit. Can you guys see me? Where you're not seeing my slide, right? You're seeing me? Jimmy Lea: We see a slide. It's got Cecil and two Nies on there. Ernie Harker: Okay. Cut. Cut to me. Okay. 'cause here's the deal. If you guys have ever tried to do like a selfie video, and this is kinda, we're gonna go into a real case study of this, of using this process, using the videos here's what typically happens. You go, okay, I've got this cool thing I wanna say on social media, or I got this training idea, or whatever. Ernie Harker: And what you do is you have someone to hold your phone. You go, Hey, hold my phone. Okay, here's what I'm gonna say. And you go, okay. Hey everybody, I just, okay, hold on. Let me get this, I'll get this. Just gimme a second. Are you rolling? Yeah. Rolling. Okay. Okay. Hey everybody. Ernie Harker. Ernie Harker: I just wanted to give you a, oh, I forgot what I was gonna say. Dang it. Okay. You know what, we'll just edit this later and you guys, it's a freaking dumpster fire. And then you end up after five minutes of this and you go, screw it. We're not doing videos anymore. Jimmy Lea: I, I think every shop owner is feeling the same pain as what you're saying because we'll set up a tripod. Jimmy Lea: Hit record, and then it's oh my gosh, after 12 attempts, I finally got it right. But it took me an hour to get there. Ernie Harker: Yep. And you're going, this is not, the juice is not worth the squeeze. Yeah. It's just not. And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna see if I can skip through. AI Cecil Bullard: Hello. CRN Ernie Harker: I'm Okay. I'm gonna get through those. Ernie Harker: What I've learned is that I'm using generative AI and I'm saving at least two to three hours a day for marketing communications. Now, this is not gonna turn wrenches, it's not gonna talk to people, but use, using generative AI and generative AI can help you reach more customers with messages that you want them to hear because you're able to produce marketing content and collateral. Ernie Harker: Faster and easier than ever. Your website, your social media, your flyers, your your handouts, your counter signs, your posters, all that kind of stuff you're doing. You can do it in like a fraction of the time and you don't need to pay some expensive graphic designer or wait so long to get it. So how do you do that? Ernie Harker: I'm gonna make sure that if you guys will send me this email, [email protected] and in the subject put five ways. I've got a PDF that shows you, first of all, how to train your brand to create your own GPT, which we'll do in just a second. And also five ways you can use, a clone your avatar. Ernie Harker: So send me an email, [email protected], and then I'll just say five ways and I'll send this to you. So when you think about ai, I want you to think of using it responsibly in a sandwich, a hamburger. You're the human bun, okay? You do the initial prompt. AI does the content, and then you have to finish it off. Ernie Harker: You have to review it, you have to approve it. It's saving you a ton of time, so make sure that you make sure that the content that it provides to you is accurate or on brand. So let's do this demo. Okay. I wanna show you, I'm gonna use chat, GPT. Can you guys see my screen okay? Jimmy Lea: Yep. Where should we begin? Ernie Harker: Okay, so where should we begin? I've created a prompt, and that prompt is in the PDF. I'm gonna copy this prompt. I'm gonna pace it right in here and I'm gonna personalize it a little bit. Can you let me zoom in a little bit? Yep, Jimmy Lea: we can see it. Ernie Harker: Okay. So here's, I'm gonna, I created this prompt that will become the mastermind brand assistant for all my marketing content. Ernie Harker: Okay? I will use this prompt every time. And you can do this in just a single, a chat thread, or you can create your own GPT. I'm just gonna a chat thread for now. Okay. 'cause you can always go back to this thread and have it help you produce marketing content. So here's my prompt. I'd like your help producing marketing content for my auto repair business that is consistent with the tone, personality, and reputation of my shop. Ernie Harker: My business is called Ernie's Autocare. We're an automotive repair and maintenance shop that serves busy working families and commuters who depend on their vehicles every day. That gives them context. What do we do and what's the name of my company? We specialize in keeping cars safe, reliable, and road ready by servicing tires. Ernie Harker: This is what I do. This is the product I provide them with. Okay? I do tires, windshield wipers, shocks, and struts. This is where you would put your stuff, what you do. Okay? My brand can be described as here's what I want what do I want people, my customers, to describe my brand? How do I want them to describe it? Ernie Harker: Honest, blue collar, friendly, no nonsense, dependable. Now, one of the things I would suggest is to create some descriptions that are not common in your industry. Okay? Otherwise, your GPT is gonna sound like Bills shops. Okay? I would put something like fun professional premium, maybe it's a little, maybe I do a lot of work for the construction world. Tons of work for the construction world. And so I'm gonna be a little bit off color and masculine be a little funny. I like to tell jokes. Okay. Now I want my customers to feel, how do I want my customers to feel? I want them to feel. Ernie Harker: Happy, relieved, and well taken care of. That's going to, that's going to give the chat, GBTA goal or target to create language around that will be on brand the way you want your customers to feel. Because 95% of all purchase decisions are emotionally driven. Let's give them a target emotion. To get to my brand uses words and phrases like, we've got your back, we'll get you back on the road. Ernie Harker: No surprises. Treat you like family, we've got you. I use words and phrases like badass. I hope it's okay for me to say that. And awesome. Okay. Those are words that I use and I wanna use that in my brand. So then I'll just say really simply, do you understand? The reason I do that is otherwise if I don't, it's gonna start just throwing ideas at me. Ernie Harker: I don't want it to gimme ideas right now. I just want to understand, 'cause I have some ideas here. Here's what it tells me. Now imagine you taking that same paragraph, dropping into chat, chat GBT, and then personalizing it to your brand. Okay? Any questions so far? We doing okay? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Ernie, we're doing great. Jimmy Lea: This is some really good information. One of the questions is when we're putting this information into chat, GPT, who owns the results? Who owns the interaction? Ernie Harker: Awesome. If you have a paid, if you have a license or a, an account, you don't even have to have a paid license. If you have an account, you're not just using free. Ernie Harker: The stuff that you put on is your stuff. It's not being shared. Okay. That's what they say. Do I believe it? Jimmy Lea: I want Ernie Harker: to. I'm having a hard time. I have a hard time saying, people say we don't share your information with anybody. And I get emails from some random financial shop, so don't put anything on here like pricing or. Ernie Harker: Coca-Cola should not put their ingredients and their recipe in here, but branding and marketing stuff is totally fine. 'cause even if I knew that your shop says things like badass and awesome in your language what's that gonna do for me? I don't care. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ernie Harker: So make sure that the content you put up here is something that you would be okay with if somebody found it. Ernie Harker: All right. But they are supposed to keep this private onto your account Jimmy Lea: because you have the paid account. Ernie Harker: Either you have a paid account or a you have a license. Okay. Okay. And I just use you guys. I have the plus account. I don't even have a pro account. I spend like less than 30 bucks a month on this stuff. Ernie Harker: And I use it every day, all day long. Okay. So you don't need to pro, does that answer your question? Oh, by the way, yeah. One other thing there's gonna be some inherent biases into ai. It just, it is because it was developed by people and the way it learns is from people develop content and people are biased naturally. Ernie Harker: So you're gonna get some biases. Any other questions? Jimmy Lea: Oh, this is great information. Yeah. Keep going into this because I I'm super excited for you to get into the part where we're able to create our own GPT. Ernie Harker: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ernie Harker: Yes. So here's in fact, gosh, you guys, I'm gonna do this instead. Ernie Harker: I'm gonna take this same paragraph that I just did, and I will show you how to make your own GPT super easy. On the left hand side because what you, the reason you want to have a GPT is that you have a locked and loaded version of chat, GPT, that is trained to speak in your voice every time. So over here in GPTs, I'll scroll down to the bottom. Ernie Harker: I got a ton of GPTs, but right here, there's an Explore gpt. Click on explore GBTs, click Create. If you don't have. A a subscription. You won't see this Okay. On the left hand side. Jimmy Lea: To do this, you've gotta have the paid account. Ernie Harker: Yeah, just, yeah. Just use your plus account cheap. Jimmy Lea: Okay? Ernie Harker: Easy. Ernie Harker: Okay. Your interface is divided in half. On the right hand side is kind like your lab to test your GPT on the left hand side. You've got two different ways to create your GPT. We're gonna start with create, and I want you to think about using create as. If you're talking to a developer, speaks human language, you're just gonna tell you, tell it what you want, and it's gonna respond back like a person. Ernie Harker: It's going to, it's going to write down the programming notes and configure. We'll see both. So here's what I'm do. I'm gonna paste in that paragraph that we just did. I'd like your help producing marketing content, my business. Okay. It's called earnings auto care, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just gonna hit send. Ernie Harker: What it's gonna do, it's gonna go, okay. I'm gonna start to take notes. I'm gonna figure this out. I need to, we need to name this thing. We need to come up with an icon for it so that it's easy for me to find it in my GPT library. Ernie Harker: Come on. Come on computer. Jimmy Lea: So the icon that you're using, that's just for you, it's not for anybody else. It's not correct. I wanna use my company logo or anything? Ernie Harker: Yep. Correct. This is not the only way you'd, the only person you'd wanna share this with is anybody that helps you produce marketing content for your company. Ernie Harker: Okay? So if you have a few executives or people that want to use this, just share it with them and I'll show you how to do that. This says, Hey let's lock in a name for this GPT Ernie's Auto Care Marketing Assistant. Fine. I'm gonna say great. Ernie Harker: I don't care what it's named 'cause it's, I'm the only one that's gonna be using this right now. It's gonna come up with an image for me. Ernie Harker: And that image. You can change it if you want, but I don't care. Oh, cool. There's Ernie. The guy should be bald, but I don't care. I'm gonna say this is great. Ernie Harker: Okay. At this point in time, I can just hit create here. 'cause right now it's not saved. Okay, I'm gonna hit create and that basically saves it. Here's my options to share it. Do I want only me to have access to this? Can I share it with anybody with the link or do I wanna publish to the GPT store that the whole world can access? Ernie Harker: Don't do that. Just use anyone with the link. Right now I'm the only one with the link, so I'm gonna hit save there. What it's doing now is it's taking the conversation that I just had. Putting that information into configure. Here's the name, here's the description, here's my instructions. I can open this up. Ernie Harker: And based on the paragraph that I gave it, this is what it understands. I can go into this anytime and edit it, change it if I wanted to. In fact, one of the things I'd like to do in here is I'd say my brand personality can be described. Ernie Harker: As a mix between Bob Ross, the artist, Bob Ross, and the Dose Eckes most interesting man in the world. Okay. If you have a, if you feel like there's a personality that's a celebrity, that would be an awesome, like type of person for your brand voice, put it in here. Like Matthew McConaughey, Ryan Reynolds, they all have their own personality and you can get a little of that taste from this GPT. Ernie Harker: Okay. I close. Now on the right hand side, I'm gonna hit update real quick on the right hand side. I can now test it. Okay. I can say write a short social media post for windshield wipers as a gift for Valentine's Day. Ernie Harker: Okay. Now it's gonna use my branded voice, my branded tone. Okay. Rosa Red vs. Blue. But nothing says I love you like windshield wipers that actually work this Valentine's Day. Skip the chocolates and give a gift that keeps them safe, drying, seen clearly rain, sleet, or surprise puddles included. New wipers equals better, better visibility. Ernie Harker: Safe drives, and one less thing to worry about. That's real love Swing by Ernie's Autocare. We've got you and your Valentine covered. See, we've got you covered was one of the things that I have in my language here. Okay. No surprise. Just smooth streak free romance. Awesome. Now I can say create an image to accompany this post. Ernie Harker: Now I could let's do this. Now I can even give it a little more. If I have an idea of what I really want, I can put it in here. Green Image company. This post of bouquet, bouquet of windshield wipers Ernie Harker: wrapped in a red bow. Okay, but just describe whatever you want or no description at all and it will know what your concept is about because you just wrote that and it will come up with an image for you now. Now, right? Right now I'm just in the preview mode. When you do something in preview mode, it doesn't remember, so I'm just testing it. Ernie Harker: This is my testing lab. When I exit this GPT creation, all this stuff will be gone. Okay, Jimmy Lea: so let's you, and let you do what, how do you, how do, so if you click on the update button, does that take everything that you've done so far and save it? Ernie Harker: It saves the GPT, but not the images. Jimmy Lea: Got it. Ernie Harker: Not this, anything in this preview area that goes away. Ernie Harker: So if I really like this stuff, I'm gonna go, man, that was awesome. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna grab all this. Copy it, paste it into a Word document or whatever, and then I can download this image right here. Just hit that's how pretty that is, and then you save this, save that image. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ernie Harker: But what I'm gonna do now is IM gonna hit update. Let me show you how to access this. I'm gonna leave. The GPT, it's going to be, it's gonna be in my GPT listing here in my library. If you don't see anything, it's because this little arrow is closed. Click this little arrow and you'll scroll down. Ernie Harker: Scroll down and you'll find your, ah, here it is, Autocare. I click on that. Now I can create content that will stay on my account. Any information that I create will stay on my account. So one of the things I might do is, Jimmy Lea: so's an So you copied that previous paragraph. If you paste it in here, it becomes part of the full program. Ernie Harker: Yes. I can say, hey so I could do is I just take the same the same question I had, write a social media post. But if I don't need to paste in here 'cause I don't think of your GPT as a library of content use. Use chat, GBT or other AI tools to create content that you save somewhere else, okay? Ernie Harker: Because what I, the last thing I wanna have happen is have Chad g Bt come up and say, we have a new, we have a new model. Boom, everything you had is gone. And I don't want, it's not intended to be like a hard drive. Okay? So copy your stuff that you like and put it into a hard drive. So what? Ernie Harker: Let, hey Jimmy, let's pretend you have a shop and now you have this brand. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Ernie Harker: What kind of content would you want to create? Jimmy Lea: Let's see, let's let's, Ernie Harker: Let's do it, let's do a video. Let's do a video. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Okay. We're gonna do a video and it's gonna be about uncle Cecil's oil service. Ernie Harker: Okay. I've got, let's use Ernie's Autocare because I've got his brand name. Jimmy Lea: Uncle Ernie's Oil Service. Ernie Harker: Oil service. Okay. Yeah, Jimmy Lea: And what's specific about this, Ernie, is you're typing this out, is we're not just gonna do a lube oil filter. We're not just gonna do an oil change. This is an oil service, and so it includes more things than just. Jimmy Lea: Changing the oil. Ernie Harker: Okay, so let's take a look at this. Who is our audience? Who are we gonna target? Jimmy Lea: We are gonna target the soccer moms. Ernie Harker: Okay. Soccer Jimmy Lea: moms bands. Ernie Harker: Okay. I'm thinking soccer mom. Jimmy Lea: Any Ernie Harker: soccer mom want to listen to or watch a video of a woman her age, or a sexy man? Jimmy Lea: She'd probably wanna see a sexy man. Ernie Harker: Okay. Who does this guy look like? Jimmy Lea: This guy looks like somewhere between George Clooney and Matt Damon. Ernie Harker: Okay, cool. Okay, so now I know the t type of personality. I want. The first thing I'm gonna do now is write a script for Ernie's Otto in the voice of this person. It's not gonna be Ernie, okay. Ernie Harker: It's going to be a, maybe it's a mechanic that kind of looks like a guy that works for me that. That will be like, all the girls want to come and see this guy. Now I know there's people listening, going, we have a dude like that. We have a George and all the guy, all the ladies want to come and watch George turn ranges. Ernie Harker: So let's do this. I'm gonna create a script first. So write a short script to introduce or to invite women with children. Ernie Harker: To come in for a, what do you call, an oil service? Jimmy Lea: Oil service, yeah. Earnings oil service. Ernie Harker: That includes, what does it include? Jimmy Lea: It includes a full digital vehicle inspection, topping off all fluids, Ernie Harker: fluid, top off, Jimmy Lea: Filter. Yeah. Ernie Harker: Oil. Jimmy Lea: Huh. Conventional oil. Ernie Harker: Do we wanna have a price point on that or no? Jimmy Lea: No. I guess we could because that's a quick, simple, easy Ernie Harker: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Service. Our oils, this one is gonna be $129. Ernie Harker: Okay. One $29. And that's let's do something like it's a spring break, like prep for spring break. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Okay. To prepare you for all those sporting events happening this spring. Ernie Harker: Okay. What's cool is I didn't spend time polishing this, okay? But it already knows my language and tone for Ernie's Auto Care. Let's hit submit and see what happens. Ernie Harker: Hey, moms Spring is coming in hot between practices, tournaments, road trips, and spring break plans. Your car is basically part of the family. Nice. Ooh, that's great. At Ernie's Autocare, we've got $129 oil service designed to keep you moving without the stress. We'll get conventional oil, a new filter, full fluid, top off, and a complete digital vehicle inspection with photos and notes sent straight to your phone. Ernie Harker: Now I'm, I didn't know. Jimmy Lea: Correct. Ernie Harker: That would be great. Jimmy Lea: That does happen. That's a DVI digital vehicle Ernie Harker: inspection. Okay. Awesome. Okay. It know what is, no surprises ever. It's quick, it's transparent. It's one less thing on your plate before the mile. Stack up the spring, come see us. We'll take care of your car. Ernie Harker: Here's what I wanna do. I'm gonna say make this shorter and add a little flirt. For the actor to read this script. Okay. Ernie Harker: Hey, moms Spring's, packed games, road trips, spring breaks. You're basically run a logistics for a small army. Bring your car to Erie's Auto Care and let us spoil it a little. Our 1 29 Well service includes blah, blah, blah. You handle the kids, we'll, handle the car swing by before spring break, we promise to treat you right. Ernie Harker: Okay, great. I'm gonna grab this script. Okay, I'm just gonna copy it now. I need an image. I need an image of this person and I'm, if I don't need it to be branded, I won't use Ernie's Auto Care GPT. Okay. The only reason I wanna use Ernie's Auto Care, GPT is for branded marketing materials for me, so I'm just gonna create a new chat. Ernie Harker: Just a brand new chat here that has nothing to do with Ernie's Automotive, and I'm gonna say please create a professional photograph of a auto, of a very handsome and rugged auto mechanic inside a garage. Okay. Is there a specific. Like description that you would say as an auto garage? Ernie Harker: Is it like a repair shop or auto garage? What would you say? Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it's an automotive repair shop. Ernie Harker: Okay. Jimmy Lea: Inside of a, inside of the bay of an automotive repair shop, Ernie Harker: because I don't want to think, oh, it's in some dude's garage. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No. You want it in the bay. You want to have rotary lift in the background and a huge snap-on toolbox Ernie Harker: inside of an, of a lar, I'll say a large. Ernie Harker: Professional. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Ernie Harker: Automotive repair shop. Okay. Create a handsome, professional, handsome, rugged he's smiling Ernie Harker: at the camera, holding a shop towel in his hands. Okay. Handsome. Okay. What I'm gonna do is I'm based, hopefully this image will turn out really good and I've still, I'm still in chat, GPT by the way. I haven't gone to some other platform while this is baking. Okay. And it takes just a second. I'm gonna introduce you to the software that we'll use to create the video. Ernie Harker: Okay? It's called Hey, Jen. You can do this for free for one avatar, but it's you guys. This is so crazy simple. I'm gonna click over here on this avatars and click plus I'm gonna create a virtual character, upload a photo, go back to my dude. Look at this handsome devil. There he is. I'm gonna download this dude. Ernie Harker: And I could actually put a logo on his chest if I wanted to. So I'm gonna say this is, mechanic dude. And I'm going to put him, just gimme a second here. Desktop. Go back over here. Upload desktop mechanic. Dude, where are you? Mechanic three up. There we are. My eyesight is total crap. And I'm gonna go upload. Ernie Harker: It's pretty dang quick. Continue. So I got this dude, I'm gonna name him. This is Jim. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's Jim. Okay. Jim's good. Ernie Harker: Jim's good. He is early middle age. He's a man. He is a white guy. This is just, you don't have to do any of this stuff, but it just knows. And now I need a voice for Jim. There's you guys, there's like a ton of voices that you can choose from gobs of them. Ernie Harker: Just listen to him like but I want to use, I've got a guy named Ben in here that I kinda like. Jimmy Lea: Ben's voice One. Ernie Harker: He's a little southern. I'm gonna grab Ben's voice here. Ernie Harker: Come on. Ben's voice. Ernie Harker: Where was he? There it is. Sorry guys. Ben's voice. Save that voice. Now. Ben's voice is locked into Jim. Let's create a video with Jim. Ernie Harker: Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Jimmy Lea: So a, as a shop, I can create this for my shop as a single or free in Hey gen. I can do it for one avatar. Ernie Harker: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So I can have one gym, whether it's Jim or it could be me. So if Sean could be like his avatar, it could be him. And this is free just for him being the one single avatar? Ernie Harker: Yes. Yep. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ernie Harker: Yep. For one. They can change that anytime, by the way. Jimmy Lea: So we can come back and change it to yeah. To Ben or Doug or Tyler Ernie Harker: Or, my concern is that Hey, Jen will go, oh, by the way, no more freebies, no more Jimmy Lea: free for you. Ernie Harker: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: They become the soup guys, Ernie Harker: I'm gonna go here. I'm gonna paste that script. Ernie Harker: Hey, moms Springs, packed games, road trips. Let's hear what it sounds like. Okay. Let me just. I gotta, Jimmy Lea: is it your play button? Ernie Harker: Here we go. If this generate that says Go for it. And I don't want to go for it yet, so I'm going to ch make this. Sorry. I've got it so zoomed in. I can't even see anything. So let's hit let's hear it. Ernie Harker: It won't show the video, but it should show the audio. Ernie Harker: Hold on a second. Doing Ernie Harker: S voice. Good, Ernie Harker: good good. Jimmy Lea: Not seeing the play is it In the bottom left hand corner? Right above the small thumbnail icon. Ernie Harker: Usually it's right up here. Jimmy Lea: Go down to the right one inch. There's a play button right next to a series zero, zero. Yeah. Is that it? Ernie Harker: That plays this thing? Let's try Jimmy Lea: this. Okay. Jimmy Lea: So if you can hear it on your end, we're not hearing it on this end. Okay. Ernie Harker: I can hear it. I can hear, but basically it reads this in that guy's voice and I just hit generate right here. I'm gonna call this Jim Mechanic, submit that. And the shorter it is, the faster it goes. But what's crazy, like even this one right here, this started with the photograph, but the animation. Jimmy Lea: The animation's pretty dang good. We can't hear what she's saying, but that looks quite natural. Ernie Harker: Yeah. So the que, while this is baking, let me just kinda describe some of the ways you could use this character. First of all, if I were you, if I was a business owner, one of the biggest things that employees want, they wanna know what's going on with the company and you don't have time to produce videos that you know are updates. Ernie Harker: It would be great for you to create a clone of yourself, and all you have to do is spend about two minutes getting in front of a camera, and it doesn't matter what you say you're basically giving content for, hey, Jen, to create a virtual model for you. And so what I would do is I'd get in front of a camera, I'd say, this is me talking. Ernie Harker: I'm really not saying anything in particular. I'm just talking. Maybe I just talk to a friend that's right in front of me, because even the words I'm saying right now doesn't even matter. But what it's doing is it's capturing my voice print, it's capturing my behavior, it's capturing my expressions. So really you just talk like this for two minutes, and then you've got the video footage, it has your voice and it has your actions. Ernie Harker: You upload that and it takes a little bit longer because it's more than just a photo that it's using as your character, your information. Then you have a version of you. Then I would get chat, GPT, my GPT to say, Hey, will you write a short script for my clone to read? That gives like a address. Ernie Harker: I'm like, things we need to remember around the shop, or we've hit this goal last month and next month it's gonna be this, or whatever it is. It will write the script for you so that you can go through it and go, oh, I'm gonna just modify it, change it. Remember the hamburger bun, you do the prompt, it does the script for you, and then you let and go, oh, this is good. Ernie Harker: This work. I'm gonna just copy this, paste it into my, Hey, gen clone, edit it just to touch and hit send. You could be in the freaking Bahamas. Sip, sip, and pina coladas when you do this, it doesn't matter but here's my only thing I would suggest is when you do that. There are some times when it's, when your audience can see that they know you really well. Ernie Harker: This isn't really him. So what I would do is I would suggest that you have that clone in the script. Say, Hey, the real Jim's not here, but he's asked me to share some really important information with you. So now it's like I'm being transparent about that. I'm not really Jim, but the content is really important. Ernie Harker: And that's what's, that's what's, that's what's important. So be transparent about using this content. For your ai your, Jimmy Lea: your avatar. Ernie Harker: Yeah, for your avatar. But another thing don't don't create testimonials that didn't exist. That's morally wrong. Okay? Man, Ernie's Auto Shop is the best. I've searched everywhere and nobody treats me better than Ernie. Ernie Harker: It's don't do that. But what you can do is get a real quote from people. Put it into an avatar and then just you can ev easily put I'll show you this real quick. You can easily add text to it. Go. I just want add text to it right here. And this is this Jimmy, this is Jimmy Brown's testimonial, but, the AI generated image, real testimonial, but AI generated image that make sense? So it's Jimmy Lea: oh yeah, Ernie Harker: we're being transparent. This is a real testimony, but we're being transparent about, the image that we're using. Really easy ways to use this tool for social media. You have a special, nobody cares that girl is not real. Ernie Harker: Nobody cares. You don't have to have a disclaimer and say, this girl isn't really real because. We're used to getting talent on TV commercials and radio commercials that are not employees of the company. We get Ernie Harker: Paid actor. This is basically a paid actor that you don't have to pay. Ernie Harker: And I use it for HR videos. You guys, oftentimes we'll use HR videos, either canned videos that somebody else provides us with that are like really boring. Or you create your own avatar, you put the logo on the chest, have somebody in Photoshop just drop a logo on the chest. Or even have Chad, GPT, put a logo on the chest. Ernie Harker: That person works 24 hours a day for you. Doesn't charge you any money, delivers it perfectly almost every time. And you don't need to edit. It's 'cause one, one of the things that happens in HR videos is Susie, the lady that did the video, she ends up leaving. And starts working for the competitor. And then you got Suzy as your HR video. Ernie Harker: No thank you. Let's just man do promotional videos, do HR videos. I've got in my, the PDF that I promised to send you, it has five different suggestions on how to use it. Gosh, one of my favorites is like FAQs, do FAQs. Hey. Just do one little FAQ for each video and you have a little graphic that says, Hey, here's the how, when do I not need to know my tires need rotated, or, and it's super, super easy in here to add a scene and then just grab some other footage and put it in here so you don't have to like, be a great editor, just add another scene and add more videos. Ernie Harker: It's just so easy you guys. Anyway. Jimmy Lea: Okay, so we're all dying to see what Jim, the mechanic Ernie Harker: said. Should we take a look? Let's see what Jim looks like. Ernie Harker: And I'm gonna turn it up really loud. Jimmy Lea: Can't hear it. Ernie Harker: You can't hear it? Jimmy Lea: No. Dang it. Can't hear it. Ernie Harker: I can hear it. Great. I turned it up like crazy. Jimmy Lea: Sorry. Ernie Harker: You know I'm, do, lemme do this, I'm gonna share this, copy the link and I'm gonna paste it into the comment and everybody can watch it at their leisure. Jimmy Lea: There you go. Ernie Harker: Everybody take a quick second and check this out. Jimmy Lea: Ernie, we've got, we've, that's gonna be awesome. I, everybody's gonna be clicking on this and watching this. This is wonderful information. So much knowledge that we're sharing here with the automotive industry. This is stuff that a shop owner can do to sit down to get comfortable with it. And now within a few moments, you can have an entire month's worth of oh, marketing content. Ernie Harker: Yeah. Ernie Harker: And use your GPT when you want creative marketing content, go back to your GPT and just type in this really quick prompt. Hey give me some social media ideas every day for Jimmy Lea: March. 'cause it's St. Patrick's Day. Ernie Harker: Perfect. And then it's gonna come up with all these different ideas. Okay. Now that I have that scr that, that content grab a little piece and say, will you write a video script for Jimmy to use? Ernie Harker: So create a social media post. So use that same structure to create marketing pieces that you can get out there. Because the problem today is that it's getting more and more difficult to compete with this ocean of content if you are not producing content too, Jimmy Lea: right? Ernie Harker: You've gotta do it, otherwise you will be lost. Ernie Harker: And lemme close by saying this, you guys several years ago I wanted to learn how to surf. I surf behind a boat all the freaking time in Utah. There's no oceans here. I know how to surf. So I went to the ocean, rented a surfboard and nearly killed myself for three hours. Could not stand up. So the next day I hired a surf coach and he basically told me where to stand on the board. Ernie Harker: I'm like, oh, I wasn't standing on the board the right way and where to put my body when I'm paddling and when to paddle and like how to pop up. And I'm like. Oh my gosh, I didn't realize all these things. It was easy to do once I had the information. All you need is the information. You can do this. Ernie Harker: You just saw me do it. The more you practice like the piano, the better you'll get the difference between the piano and ai. Piano takes forever to learn to play music. Anybody can s sell the keyboard and make mu make noise. But it takes a little bit of instruction to turn that noise into music and you guys will crush it with generative ai 'cause your competitors are not doing this. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Thank you Ernie. Such valuable information and I agree. Yeah. The more we get familiar, the more we play with this, the better it's gonna be. For my friends that are listening, what do you think is this valuable information, something that is immediately actionable for you and for your shop, for your marketing? Jimmy Lea: Is this something you can do? Put a comment and let us know. Should we have Ernie back for another? Presentation. Should we have 'em back for another webinar? Gosh, Ernie, we've only scratched the surface here. Ernie Harker: I know. Jimmy Lea: And Doug's saying Doug's saying session. When's the second session with Ernie? Jimmy Lea: Is it tomorrow? Can we do it next week? Please? Thank you, Doug. Appreciate that. Ernie Harker: Hey and Brad said that the link didn't work correctly for him. Does anybody else have a problem with the link? If it, if you did, we can probably put, I can download it and send it in a, like a Dropbox so that you guys can send it later. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Yeah. Brad says, give us more. Sean says, extremely helpful. Angie says It's pretty interesting. Definitely something I'd like to try out. Wonderful. Thank you so much. We, at the institute, we work really hard to be able to bring to you my friends in the automotive aftermarket valuable information that helps you as a business to build your business. Jimmy Lea: Our mantra is better business, better life, better industry. We're gonna lock arms together. We're gonna weather this storm because not every ship is created equal. And this storm, some of the ships are gonna sink. If we lock arms together, we can survive this storm, better business, better life, better industry. Jimmy Lea: My name is Jim Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. My guest today, Ernie Harker. Thank you very much, Ernie. Appreciate you being here, brother. Ernie Harker: My pleasure, bro. Jimmy Lea: Oh, phenomenal. And yes I think we need to plan our second round to come back around and dig a little bit deeper. Jimmy Lea: Because Doug's, we already know Doug's gonna be up all night playing with his new toy. Ernie Harker: Awesome. Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, bro. It was awesome. It was super fun. Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice. Awesome. Thank you very much everybody. We'll see you again next week. We'll have another webinar together very soon. Jimmy Lea: Thank you so much.

187 - Standing at the Crossroads featuring Eric Henley, H-Tek Auto January 17, 2025 - 01:40:22   Show Summary: Built on relationships, accountability, and a deep respect for people, Eric Henley, owner of H Tech Auto Care in Tennessee, shares how his lifelong passion for the automotive industry evolved into a purpose-driven business and culture. From dealership master technician to shop owner, Eric reflects on the decisions that shaped his leadership, his team, and his approach to growth. This episode of Leading Edge: Standing at the Crossroads dives into people-first leadership, building trust through communication, developing technicians and service advisors, and why culture and performance are inseparable. Eric explains how mentorship, integrity, and active listening have helped him create a workplace where people grow and customers feel genuinely cared for. If you are thinking about the legacy you are building as a shop owner or leader, this conversation offers practical insight and honest reflection. Want guidance on building a people-centered culture and long-term leadership legacy? Meet with Michael Smith for a leadership and legacy strategy conversation: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session   Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Guest(s): Eric Henley, owner of H-Tek Auto   Show Highlights: [00:01:53] - Eric traces his start in the trade back to fixing things with his grandfather and dad. [00:04:15] - He says better communication makes you more impactful than just being “good at cars.” [00:05:30] - A dealership owner’s personal leadership style became Eric’s blueprint. [00:07:34] - After 18 years, Eric still maintains relationships with nearly every former employee. [00:09:22] - High Performance Group helped him tighten accountability without losing kindness. [00:15:51] - Eric uses a “three strikes” process to give people a real path to redemption. [00:18:10] - Weekly Friday lunches create a safe forum to surface issues and improve fast. [00:21:22] - He sees attitude, not skill, as the biggest separator in technician performance. [00:35:24] - His delegation test is simple: fewer “Ask Eric” moments means real traction. [01:29:16] - Eric wants to redeem the industry’s reputation by building trust-driven people.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/ggxEcghxTz0   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Kent Bullard: Hi everybody. Welcome to the Institute's leading Edge, the Crossroads Podcast, where we examine the crucial decisions professionals make that define careers that shape industries that inspire thought leadership and that build lasting legacies. I'm Kent Bullard and I'm joined by my esteemed colleague Michael Smith. Kent Bullard: And today we have the privilege of speaking with Eric Henley the owner of H Tech Auto Outta Tennessee. Our guest today is a lifelong automotive enthusiast whose journey began with an early fascination for cars, inspired by his father's project vehicles, after earning an associate's degree in automotive service technology from Northeast State. Kent Bullard: He honed his skills working in dealerships from 1988 to 2005. In July, 2006, he took a leap of faith, starting his own business with a HELOC and a prayer. Over the past 18 years, he's navigated the challenge of entrepreneurship with determination and passion. A pivotal moment came in 2016 when he joined the Institute's twenties group, a decision he calls the best move he ever made for his business and personal growth. Kent Bullard: Eric is also an active participant in the Institute's High performance group, and this year he was named Alumni of the Year by Northeast State, a testament to his impact on the industry and his community. We're excited to have him share his incredible journey and insights with us today. Welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge, the Crossroads Podcast. Kent Bullard: Those of you who are listening I'd like to just let you know that you can ask questions in the comments below. If you enjoy the content that we're gonna cover today, please like and share and you can find more information about us at We are the institute.com. Eric, thank you for joining us today. Eric Henley: Oh, thank you. Appreciate the invitation.  Kent Bullard: So I'd love to start. And kind of go back, I know I gave you an introduction, but I'd love to start with what originally drew you into the industry and what inspired you to commit to it?  Eric Henley: I, well, it, like I said, the background you heard the background, mechanical, I mean, it started off with bicycles and lawnmowers with my grandfather, and then it turned into cars with my dad. Eric Henley: And then from there, it's just it just fit. I honestly tried one year of college thinking about something else and decided that wasn't it. And so we, so I went into this field just with, you know, an honest, know-how and how things could come apart, go together. And so, enjoyed cars. It was a good time with my dad. Eric Henley: And so from there I thought, well, I can make a living doing this. And so that's what I chose to do. And so, and I'll have to say I always wanted to know more. I always wanted to learn more about. How I could be a better technician. So I was always looking to improve. If they gave me an opportunity to go train, I would spent 15 years with Honda and they would send me to the training center in Alpharetta. Eric Henley: And anytime they asked me, I was, yes. Anytime they asked me if there was something else I could take, I was, yes. So, yeah, I just wanna be the best technician I could be. And the end result with that was a lot more build hours, a lot more income. And I was a master tech at my trade for most of that time. Michael Smith: Eric, you know, we love stories and we talk about stories a lot. What maybe is one thing that you could think of as a legacy that your dad left with you, that you've carried into where you are today?  Eric Henley: Well, one of the things is just his even though he was a plant worker, he had a knack for a person just being personal with people he could find something in common with anyone and value conversations with people. Eric Henley: So I think that's really helped me to always think about other people and to find things in common, to build relationships. So, yeah, that, that was probably one of the things that I would say that stands out to me. Mm-hmm.  Michael Smith: That's a great takeaway. Thank you.  Kent Bullard: What do you think what do you think drove you to seek more knowledge, to gain more skills to develop yourself? Kent Bullard: What, where does that come from?  Eric Henley: Well, I've always, like I mentioned earlier, I've always had that built in. Personally I took classes outside of outside of the trade and read books like all of us have to improve myself. But I think the better you are at communicating with people, the more impactful you can be in their lives. Eric Henley: And so you could, I mean, you could touch lives, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And it's not always about just making money. It's about people and also learning to listen, actively listen to people, not just being the one, dominating the conversation and make sure they're heard that they know you're hurt, that they were heard, that you're not talking over them. Eric Henley: So, it it's pushed me. To develop my communication skills more intently.  Kent Bullard: Why do you think it's important that you invest in these people the way that you're talking about, to build that bridge of communication to understand them? Why do you, why is that so important?  Eric Henley: Well, it's a, I mean, for me and I learned this in the dealership life as well. Eric Henley: The owner there was very active in our lives, and he would come and talk. I mean, he wasn't some guy that was disconnected from them, from us. He smoked. This was back when smoking was popular. So he would come back into the bays, talked to us about our families, talked to us about whatever job we were working on. Eric Henley: He would give us congrats. He actually hand signed every paycheck with a, some sort of encouragement on it. If he had a really great week. So I, you know, he kinda mentored me in that. So when I started my own business, that was the same, that was what I took with me. It was like, okay, this guy, you know, I thought very highly of him and his encouragement helped push me along. Eric Henley: So I'm gonna do the same thing in the way I treat the people who work for me. And to be sure that, you know, I'm not just all about the hours or the sales. I care about what's going on in your family, what your hobby is, what, you know, how was fishing last week? So I've always tried to make that stroll through the shop. Eric Henley: Even when I was in the shop as a technician, still working in my business, before I started working on it, I'd spend time talking to the guys who worked with me alongside me, and we did things together. You know, we did life together. And so I just felt like it it made work, not. As much work, if that makes sense. Michael Smith: Oh, it makes total sense. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna say you, we, we talk about this, you are blessed to have had that platform of leadership at the beginning in a positive way. 'cause a lot of us see leadership that we don't wanna replicate in the world that we live in with our first and second and third bosses. Michael Smith: And the fact that you had somebody that walked around and felt that positive impact and chose to hold onto that is a great legacy that, that owner left for you. And it makes a big difference. The walk around recognition, the walk around relationship, that actual genuine caring is, that was a great start that you had from that perspective. Michael Smith: And it's great to hear you carrying it forward.  Eric Henley: Yes. Mm-hmm. It's been an asset for. For me and my business. Yeah those relationships. I'll just say I don't know if this is an appropriate time you can edit out, if not, but I'll tell you that I only have one former employee. So over 18 years we've turned over. Eric Henley: I forget now how many we've turned over. It's not a lot. But out of the ones that have left, I only have one that was with me three weeks that I don't have a good relationship with host working for me. So, we've managed to forgive our differences if we had any or whatever the reason was that they left and still maintain friendships and relationships. Eric Henley: And we actually do some things together. And some of them left under tense, you know, situations one, one in particular last year and he and I still meet and have lunch together. We text often and share in football's successes and. Whatever their interests are. So, I'll say even if they don't stay with me, I want to have a relationship that I made a difference in their life in some way even if they're not working for me. Eric Henley: Absolutely.  Michael Smith: So, and we talk quite a bit about whether we're drive for performance, so whether we drive for relationships, and obviously that's great testament to the fact that your drive for genuine relationships results in high performance, but also results in relationships that last, which is a fantastic testimony. Michael Smith: So thank you for sharing that. That's great.  Kent Bullard: Is can you go into, you know, what inspired you to focus on high performance and people driven, people development as a core part of your business strategy? I mean, you've talked a little bit about the why for you but what was the inspiration for bringing it in as a core function of your business? Eric Henley: So I started noticing culture. Culture became a lot more important to me. And I knew that I'd done okay, but I knew I could do much better. And I'm long suffering by nature. So I'll tolerate some things that I don't necessarily like because I wanna see somebody redeemable or get better. So I was struggling with that. Eric Henley: And we all face, you know, technician shortages, sales staff shortages. There's a lot of things that happen when you turn somebody over. You don't just get someone right away. So that the High Performance group, what it's done for me is to help shape that culture and also I guess temper me a little bit to where I'll hold somebody more accountable for a cultural thing. Eric Henley: A vi a culture, a core value violation. And I mean, and say it. And the other thing, I know it's given me the ability to say it in a kind way that it's corrective, but it's it's in a positive sense, it's firm, but with feeling. And so, I think that has probably helped me. And one of the reasons I got into high performance groups for that, we had our numbers. Eric Henley: We had the GPG and you know, we knew our numbers well, but this is next level stuff is the way we talked about it. And from now with all the legwork we've done with the vision, the mission, the core values and operating principles, all those exercises we've gone through, I can just see this kind of coalescing and gelling into it just equals a better relationship at work, a better and more production for those that buy in to it, the ones that don't. Eric Henley: Well, you can see the difference. The ones that sort of, they agree to it and they'll nod to it, but it even affects how much they make. And it is the hierarchy that, that you talk about a lot, Michael, is the, is it sounds like Woo. And several years ago I would've said, eh, you know, I've worked around guys. Eric Henley: They can be jerks. They still work. Well, that's not necessarily the case. There's a lot higher level things. Your culture. And so I guess if that's a long answer to why I'm in the high performance group.  Michael Smith: Well, I kind of wanna unpack one thought a little bit further. You mentioned being long suffering. Michael Smith: Yes. And then having a sort of an accelerating thought process about dealing with toxicity, dealing with issues that manifest themselves as countercultural. Can you just give us a couple more thoughts on that, go a little bit deeper about how your thinking has been developing along those lines?  Eric Henley: Yeah. So I guess just to be practical. Eric Henley: So for instance, maybe a technician who is not bought in. So we pull 'em aside and have a conversation, say, okay, we talk about all the positives the things they're doing great. And then we go into, and here are some things that we see that are holding you back. And the only reason they're holding you back is because of it is the guy in the mirror. Eric Henley: You have every opportunity, like the others who are bought into culture and you can see the end result. And because they've got a scoreboard, they can see what each other's hours are built for the week. So we use examples like that. We use it in the way we train our service advisors and the way they interact with people. Eric Henley: That latest thing we've been talking about at HPG with customer experience, it's changed the way our sales staff talks to people when they take the, when they take the information from the customer, from the time they accept it online or in person. There's a deeper thought of each one is important. Eric Henley: Each person is important. And so it's changed the way we treat people. We're not just trying to get information out of 'em quickly and move on to the next one. We spend a little extra time, but I think our reviews reflect this change the, especially the most recent ones within the last couple of months. Eric Henley: I don't know if that answers your question.  Michael Smith: Absolutely. No that's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for that reflection.  Kent Bullard: I had another thought that I wanted to get back to. You mentioned redemption. I love, you know, having a path to redeem themselves. Do you think that the practice of redemption is important or plays an important role in running a high performing team? Eric Henley: Yeah. Yes, because I mean, let's just face it, none of the three of us have it all figured out. We all have our weaknesses and we continue to work on ourselves because, we'll, we're imperfect. So, but we have, you know, if you have a drive to improve. Why would you not have that same desire for the person that you've maybe somebody that's been there for a while and now they're trying to buy into this new concept of how we're gonna operate. Eric Henley: This these are declared things we live by. This is how we conduct ourselves. This is how we think about ourselves, and this is what we want our everything that we face the public with to be a reflection of that. I mean, that's what that's what our customers. So, I think giving someone a chance, that's the long suffering part. Eric Henley: Personality is more that I'll work on somebody for a while instead of just I want it done or get out. There's other personalities that, that's the way they think of things. So I've always just, I try to put myself in their shoes and think of it from their perspective. Before I come out and talk to 'em about it. Eric Henley: So it's just a, it's a self-evaluation of trying to think how that person is looking at their job each day.  Michael Smith: So when do you, Eric, sort of make that shift in your mind? And it's gonna be different in every scenario I know, but what sort of causes you to eventually turn the corner from redemption as a model to a more remedial approach? Michael Smith: What generally, what happens in your thought process that takes you to the point of having to deal with the unresolved toxic issue at that point?  Eric Henley: So mine, mine is usually, I mean, you basically, you could come down and say it, basically it's three strikes. So if we've had a two conversations over the same issue the third time is the ultimatum. Eric Henley: And from that point, that usually means they'll. They'll either change or they'll move on.  Michael Smith: Yeah. Or not.  Eric Henley: And so that's, I mean, I like to give people time to change. And the only things I would say that would be an immediate remedial thing is, you know, something criminal. You know, they're stealing from the customer in some way, or they're stealing from us or something dishonest, you know, a repair that was intentionally, you know, half done and those would be the things. Eric Henley: Or someone in supervision who went outside of anything that you, I mean, that's what happened last year with with one of my managers. He didn't run something by me before he actually had the meeting. And had he we would've probably said it a little differently. I think he was defending me well with and making some corrections. Eric Henley: But I think it is just the manner which it was delivered. You can say things a lot of different ways and you can still get your point across without, you know, coming across in a very abrupt, sharp direction. So, but usually three strikes and you're out. That's been my 'cause. Your first one's verbal. Eric Henley: The second one's verbal with written, and the final one is a verbal with a written, and this is it. And, you know, they either straighten up or they move on. And so that's how I've, that's how I've made my decisions for the file straw, I guess is what you're asking.  Kent Bullard: So your process for correction is really coming in and. Kent Bullard: Helping them define a path towards redemption, not necessarily disciplinary to say, you know, here's all the things you've done incorrect. You know, I'm punishing you in these ways, but more so, hey, let's work together to look at a plan to help you achieve your best potential.  Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we, another thing we'll do is we'll have an issues stay. Eric Henley: Like I, we do Friday lunches with all our employees each Friday. Some of them are in-house in the shop, catered in, and other ones are out to eat. Those are usually just for fun, but we'll have each person just around the table come up with an issue maybe they faced this week that we can improve a process or change something on the digital vehicle inspection, or add something or take something away, or maybe a parts issue we need to solve. Eric Henley: So we're always troubleshooting. We don't think we've got everything. So, so every person and I usually say, listen guys, you've heard me say this a hundred times. I'm not the smartest guy around the table here. Each of you have something to add to what we do, and we value what you have to say. Eric Henley: That's not to say that we'll always apply everything mentioned here but if we've thought it through and this is a good change for everyone, then let's make it, it makes us all better. And so that's kind of how we deal with issues and would not let things fester. We give 'em a forum to bring it up. Michael Smith: Well, and the collaborative conversation is one of the big pillars in a high performance culture is that ongoing, genuine collaboration, the fact that they bring it up and you welcome it and then you solve the problem as a group is wonderful. It's great foundational stuff.  Kent Bullard: There's such, you know, I say it. Kent Bullard: All the time. But there's such profound value in breaking bread with people, sharing a meal and being able to have that open dialogue over, over good food with one another. It kind of puts you in a setting that's a little more even keeled. We all, we're all human. We all eat. And so this is a, you know, I commend you to do that. Kent Bullard: And anybody who's listening, I mean, I would highly recommend that you have some kind of regular meal that you share with your team.  Michael Smith: Especially the ones where you go out to a restaurant, you don't do any business. You guys just hang out together. That's fantastic. For fun. Yeah, just for fun. Eric Henley: Yeah. It will increase your you usually book that as a training expense. 'cause you're all, you're talking about things to improve the business, but it'll increase your training expense. But for me it's a small price to pay, to not have issues that are really small issues that grow into something that's like a festered wound that you should have dressed a long time ago. Eric Henley: It's better to head it off early when it's small. And then let it go. And I, that's a lesson I've learned in the past too. I've let things go too long. I guess any shop owner sometimes just sit back and hopes for the best, and that never happens.  Kent Bullard: Well, it's kind of uncomfortable having, having the thought of, well, I now have to go have a conflict over this issue. Kent Bullard: And it's like, most often, if you just get it done quickly, it's a lot less of a hill to cross than if you let it continue on.  Eric Henley: No, you're right. I was wrong in that way. I'll do better still. What, after all these months, now you really bring this up, you know, that kind of thing. So,  Kent Bullard: yeah.  Eric Henley: Anyway,  Kent Bullard: So I, I want to go and talk. Kent Bullard: I'd love for you to tell us about your experience with getting your team involved, especially with your, you know, your commitment to human centricity. How did the team take that?  Eric Henley: Y for the most part, except for, I think I have two. Have semi bought in. And those are ones that I'm still not positive. They're, they may be getting close to the three strikes, but all the rest of 'em were like, after they started. Eric Henley: I mean, and we had to talk about it a lot 'cause it took, you know, they have to understand where you're coming from here. 'cause a lot of shops, a lot of guys are gonna think, oh, this is woo, what are we doing? This is the latest thing. What are you bringing in? That kind of thing. But after we had some good conversations about it and what does this mean? Eric Henley: How does this affect us? They were like, yeah, this is, I agree. And so, you know, we sent a couple of 'em to, to the leadership intensive. And they came back with my son for one as really turned into a self development fiend. He loves to read things to improve himself. We are actually having to coach him, not to spend all of his time reading, spend time with his wife doing some fun things. Eric Henley: And then the other, the latest one Alex is coming back with some some changes. And that's still, he's still digesting it but they they want to the ones that are bought in two technicians for instance, they want to train, they want to be masters of their trade. They want to get better. Eric Henley: They'll come ask me for training instead of just waiting for the latest, you know, Napa training or whatever that comes up. Well, they'll ask me to go to the Charlotte I can't think of the, which name you, you were probably at it, but at any rate, he asked to go. And so we put, we sent him and he learned a lot of great things and brought those back and shared them across the other technicians there. Eric Henley: So. They just, they see how it affects what they're doing. And the other thing is to see these two technicians who are producing way more hours than the other two. And they all do the same quality DVI, you can look across any of their D vs. There's good pictures, there's good comments. They're all, there's no really shortcuts. Eric Henley: They're not pencil whipped. And the difference is the attitude  Kent Bullard: about what they do every day. These two come in with an overcoming attitude. These two come in with like,  Eric Henley: You know, they're we're gonna, we're technicians and that kind of thing. So it affects it affects them, but I can see a partial buy-in with them. Eric Henley: That's the reason I still think there might be some room there that the sales staff was like a media, even my newest employee, which is our courtesy maintenance shuttle driver. His desire is to become a technician someday. He's like, I've never worked for a place like this. And he is from, he's from coming from California and came out of the grocery store industry and he's like, this kind of culture is just, I've never seen anything like this. Eric Henley: So, it's made that kind of impact on what we're doing now.  Michael Smith: Yeah. And that, and I wanted to throw that in there. We talk in this industry unique, competitive advantage is hard to come by. And you were mentioning earlier, maybe also the two technicians that are slowly buying in, if we can be optimistic about it, are come out of backgrounds where they were abused, used and abused. Michael Smith: And so the concept that you stand up and say, I actually care about you as a person. They're like, eh maybe not. Let me see what happens here. Maybe they're slow sales. They're slow. They're slow to buy in. Maybe they'll never get there. You know, if they don't ever get there, that's then a truth tape problem. Michael Smith: Right? What's, what their belief structure looks like, and if this conflicts with that, they don't change their structure, then we all know they won't eventually get with it. But the attitude you were talking about's a symptom. That's a symptom of what they believe, a symptom of their history. So I thank you for the testimonial here. Michael Smith: It's great discussion too about what happens when you bring something powerful to the group that's different. Some people change quick, some people don't. Right? Some people take a little more thinking, a little more buy-in, and it's just a, it's a great story that you told. Thank you for that. Thanks for unpacking it. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm.  Kent Bullard: I think there's something to be said. You know, I've spoken with a lot of shop owners who have an apprehension about introducing this kind of stuff to their team. They're not gonna be interested in this. This is what did you say? Woo kind of stuff. Yeah. And everybody's looking for that buy-in at the same time. Kent Bullard: So one, they're apprehensive about this, but two, they also want their team to buy in. They want, how do I get my guys to say, I wanna go to training, I wanna develop, I wanna grow myself. What strategies or philosophies have you found to be most effective in developing and nurturing that talent and that drive within your team? Eric Henley: Well, yeah. We do a weekly sales training on Wednesday at lunch with my service advisors. And so with them, I just use practical application. I think I've kind of paired some of what we've done  Michael Smith: with  Eric Henley: the the old book Adele Carnegie, how to Win Friends and Influence People. And so it, it changes their thought process and how they present. Eric Henley: They, they own stewardship of the customer's vehicle and. They also on intake, this is something Seth really picked up on, is what do people want? You gotta ask them what they want. So you empower them and you guide them in their decision making process about whatever they need. And so with them, they can see directly and I intend to show them with the the thing that inbound offers with the conversation temperature of a, the AI on that is to show the difference and what, when they really are presenting in that manner, what that sounds like and what, how the customer reacts to it. Eric Henley: You can see a marked difference in the responses. The guard is down, there's more trust, and that's one thing our industry needs is to be trusted. And so with them, I think it's easier on the front. The back the technicians, and I don't like using front and back, we're a team, but that's a common term used in our industry, the front and the back. Eric Henley: Is that okay guys? Every bit of information you collect and the diligence you go to reveal as much about the vehicle's condition in a clear manner helps our customer make the best decision as well. And then the other thing is to be willing to collaborate with the, with your service advisor on what the best estimate is for this, what the best steps are there gonna be other steps unknown? Eric Henley: Make sure they're aware of that. And so they're thinking ahead, okay this is the first step. And that's how the verbiage reads. And the say, say it's the initial concern for the day, whatever the customer came in for. This will be the first step in this process. And this could resolve it, but there may be other things. Eric Henley: And so that, that helps the other, it helps the service advisor when he has to make the second call, 'cause he is already, he's already prepped. And so they think about it in a way that's okay, this is not just about me selling a bunch of hours to bill more hours for me. We're looking out for a customer's best interest, their safety and to communicate very clearly to them what they need and what they can wait on. Eric Henley: So in the back that's I would say the technicians that have bought into more of that's more of the communication. You can see a little more robust, richer communication between them and service advisors, both in text on the DBI and in conversation when they go up front to expound on what they've. Eric Henley: Said mm-hmm.  Michael Smith: And then e Eric, intellectually, emotionally, the concept of stewardship that you mentioned and the fact that done right over time builds loyal brand ambassador customers the best kind. How have you discussed that internally to get that connection? It's a little bit different in our industry. Michael Smith: How have you gotten that, how have you handled that internally to have your people start to understand it and make the connection and make it a part of real life talk? Tell us a little bit about the process, if you will.  Eric Henley: So one of the things we do, just to show them what a great experience is if we get the review it's shared across the service advisor and the technician. Eric Henley: And then we've also thought about sharing it across the whole shop. Maybe at one of the lunch and learns we do with all the staff around the table. Just to show what a great how a great experience, what that does. So that's one of the ways we talk about it. And then there's just a there's that pat on the back, the walk through the shop. Eric Henley: Matt has our service manager has really started practicing that a lot. If it's been a very challenging repair he'll go back and congratulate the technician for success in that. And if it's been a challenging one, he will grad congratulate them for persevering through it. And that's been something I've tried to leave as an example. Eric Henley: We have a very challenging repair on a Toyota right now. And this technician is very, you know, he is very technical. He follows the process like, I mean, he's one of the best. Unfortunately, something didn't go right and. The engine's still out of the vehicle. So, but I'm like, listen, you know, you're a great technician and just like, I'm not a perfect person. Eric Henley: You're not a perfect person either. And things happen. This is not a perfect world, but we'll get through this and we'll succeed and we'll over, we'll adapt and overcome. And so that's, I guess in the from a technician's perspective, that was one of the conversations we had right before I left. This morning I was stopped by to visit for a bit. Eric Henley: And it's like, you know, you guys, you have that. We're gonna get this we're gonna overcome these challenges. And and with that, we're gonna offer the customer. Something that most shops don't offer is integrity and honesty. That we own our mistakes. We eat our mistakes, and we're very transparent about, we don't try to cover 'em up. Eric Henley: There's many ways to deceive people in this industry. It's been done. But our commitment is that absolute integrity. So if you make a mistake, do not feel shame that you have to admit it. Even if we lose money on it, we'll gain in the long run. And we know what we've done. We don't have to remember what we told 'cause we know it's honest. Michael Smith: Yeah. On, well, you've mentioned integrity and that's fabulous. There's humility, right? Involved in admitting that it didn't go right or mistakes were made or whatever. And grace, you ask for grace from the customer, you give grace to each other. You're giving grace to the master technician who is stuck at this point. Michael Smith: And it's like we all get there at one point. That's a beautiful triad. Tho those three ideas, integrity, humility, and grace. What a great stool culturally. To stand your relationships on. That's fantastic. Eric,  Kent Bullard: I wanna go back to one thing and Michael, I'm interested to know your perspective on this from the psych psychological aspect. Kent Bullard: You know, we talk about getting the buy-in and all that. Eric, you had mentioned their decision making capabilities, their ownership, their own personal choices that they're able to make. I think what prevents a lot of growth in teams is that leadership is too restrictive in the sense that if you're gonna develop somebody, you have to have I mean you mentioned stewardship, you have to give them the freedom to own their area of accountability. Kent Bullard: And Michael, what do you think prevents. That type of, or I mean, what causes that restriction?  Michael Smith: Sure. I, Eric, we've talked about this in the high performance group together a lot. It's a trust platform that's rocky. And so the an owner will give responsibility away. Maybe they give authority away, maybe not really, sort of, but not really. Michael Smith: And then accountability is a little fuzzy because the owner's a little nervous to see if it's gonna work or not. And they want to give a person a chance to work it out and something doesn't work out. Right. So that beautiful three-legged stool responsibility, accountability, and authority is not fully established in this relationship with the person who's taking on a new task. Michael Smith: Right. And this is the issue that Eric, we've talked about the path to mastery and stepping over the comfort zone into the unknown and falling on your face. That's where mastery is developed. You don't become a master by doing the same thing. You know how to do over and over with no risk. So when they step over the wall, they are gonna fall down. Michael Smith: You kind of want 'em to, 'cause it's part of the experience. You don't want to catch 'em before they hit the ground. You want 'em to hit the ground and learn and get back up again. Then they build a resolve and a resilience to go do it. And if we don't fully transfer. Responsibility and authority and accountability. Michael Smith: That's, it's a rocky, big, soft ground. And then somebody stumbles and maybe we reach out and catch 'em. Maybe we try to turn away and hope they don't fall down and don't know what to say. And it's that, it's all comes back to trust. Yeah, exactly. Right. And it all comes back to trust. It comes back to trust. Michael Smith: They trust you, you trust them. It gets stronger in the culture. You say, I want you to try something. They're like, you know what? I fell down twice. Eric picked me back up again. I didn't get judged and penalized for it. I'm gonna try this third bigger thing. And now you've got a culture of mastery. Now you have a high performance culture of individuals developing and it's, it takes a little while to get that trust bill. Michael Smith: 'cause again, we don't come from an industry that's trust rich, either internally or externally. So yeah, there's a wants, wants traction. I mean, tell us and detraction, right, traction's happening in your place. So can you tell us a little bit about that traction and some of the things you see that is evidence to you that it's building? Eric Henley: Yeah, so one of the simple gauges I use, this is easy for almost any shop owner who's facing trying to let go. Is that your name? How many times is your name? Ask Eric, what do you think? Eric? Eric, what do you think? So anytime you hear that it, I mean, you might, if you hear it once, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a good gauge of how your business will operate without you being present. Eric Henley: And so I usually, if they ask me a question, I'll ask them what they think should be the next step, and then they'll tell me what they think it is. And if I have nothing to add, I'll think, okay, that sounds fair to me. And why don't you go with that. I trust you on that decision, or, that's a great, that's a great decision. Eric Henley: I might add one thing that you might. Consider going into this, but I want you to own the decision and whatever the consequences are of it just for instance, taking in an older car, that's gonna be a challenging repair. I used it for a lesson for my son recently. He wanted to help someone who was an older gentleman, had a sick son with cancer, and the car had been setting for a long time. Eric Henley: And Seth asked me about it and I said, well, what do you think? And he's like, well, I really wanna help the guy. And he said, it could be a challenging repair. I said, yes. And so then I went on to tell him, I said, so this is an older vehicle could be a challenge to find parts. There's lots of things that may not be available anymore. Eric Henley: But I'm gonna let you make that decision. And and I didn't try to gloat over it. I was ripe, but. I say, okay, you know, going forward, this is a lesson, pick yourself back up and going forward, you'll know what to do. And I'm not opposed to doing the right thing. I'll donate labor to people and if we're, if it's a good cause. Eric Henley: That's what we do. I mean,  Michael Smith: see Eric, your model hits on a very important mastery journey component. And that is that the high level journey people and the masters are the first ones that are gonna feel micromanaged. If they say, Eric, what do you think? And you give them the answer, the people in the lower levels of development will be grateful for that answer. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. If it's a cultural tenant to ask Eric the question, the minute you start to answer the masters are either gonna be not listening or gonna be angry that you gave him the solution. 'cause masters like to figure it out for themselves. And your very model helps both the apprentice level people like, well, what do you think? Michael Smith: And instead of relying on you to give them an answer, and you know, having tried to learn another language, if I ask the person who knows the language, the answer to that word, and they just give it to me, I don't remember it. But if they go look it up, or you go figure it out and I have to go figure it out, it sticks in there better. Michael Smith: And so your model takes it all the way from apprentice out through master to help them to learn to stand on their own. And that's a really powerful thing that you exercise. I wanted to catch that on the way by that's great leadership practice that you have  Eric Henley: and speak and the traction of that too. Eric Henley: So not, was this car a bad decision for us to take on? Yeah, probably from a financial perspective, but one of the high culture technicians who was working on it and desired to finally fix it for the guy, he knew the story. Seth had told him he came in on a Saturday and donated nine hours of his time. Eric Henley: Unbuilt not clocked on anything, researching and doing tests to, to resolve the issue for this customer. So you just. Well, I mean, what flat rate technician does that? That's you don't, most of 'em are not wired like that. I don't know that I would've been at that age mid thirties. I've only been like, yeah, but that's the type of cult, that's the type of people you attract. Eric Henley: Anyway, I interviewed this guy. This is before I had HPG. I could just tell. I, that is one of the things I guess I, I meant to mention earlier in the conversation is that dad's influence on me made me kind of discern certain people there, and I could just tell I look people in the eyes and I watch body language and I saw a genuine person here. Eric Henley: So some of that's just, you know, thankfully built in. But there's a lot of this I've learned on to layer on top of that. It just makes it better. The things I'm wearing for y'all through this is. It's I never would've thought I'd been where we're at now with this. It's just, I, it's a blur. Kent Bullard: Well, Eric I've gotta commend you for giving your people the space, you know, just to recap, asking them what do they think? Kent Bullard: Either, either recognizing, hey, that is a good decision, you made a good choice. Also if you do need to add something, hey, I've got something to add to that, to your already good choice. I think in society today we've forgot how mentorship works in the sense that information is so easily attained through phones, through the internet. Kent Bullard: You know, a lot of the youth don't necessarily get look upward. And at this point, it's a lot easier to allow the youth to go just to the internet versus having a relationship of mentorship. And I say that meaning, kind of to summarize, go back. Think about the mentors that you had going, you know, as you were becoming a tech. Kent Bullard: So the listeners out there, as you were becoming a master you had mentors that probably gave you the space to fail. And I think because a lot of businesses or teams are in a position of desperation where they're just trying to make it work. They don't allow that space to make mistakes, to grow and to develop. Kent Bullard: And I think you, you absolutely have to have that flexibility to understand that this person is not at my level and I need to meet them where they're at and allow them that opportunity to try and to fail and to learn. 'cause that's ultimately how they develop and grow. And eventually they're gonna be somebody who is either at my level or even beyond that. Kent Bullard: And so I just want to commend you for allowing that to happen.  Eric Henley: That reminds, that just brought to back a memory of my early days when I first came to Honda. Before the internet, we had the old manuals on the shelf and you didn't have a phone or a computer to look at. And I had been there about a couple days and I was trying to solve a problem on a car, and I went over to ask another technician beside of me and he said, have you looked in the repair manual yet? Eric Henley: And I was like, well, no. He's like, all right, you go look in this chapter and they'll, that gets you in the range where you need to be to figure out how to do this job. And if you can't solve that problem, then I'd be happy to come over and help you. So to me, that was a lesson problem solving that you put back on the person that, that needs to learn something because you can tell somebody anything, but if they don't know how to practice it, if you're always the guy bailing them out, well then guess what? Eric Henley: You got a lot of hay. Erics,  Michael Smith: It's a beautiful story though, because instead of leaving them. Looking in the universe for an answer. You sort of turn their head toward this and say, okay, now go there and come back if you have more questions. And it's a beautiful way of doing it. You do bring your expertise, but you don't do it in the way of solving the problem for It's a great story. Michael Smith: You'll find the  Kent Bullard: answer to your question at the top of the mountain.  Michael Smith: Yeah, right. This mountain. Just climb the mountain. That  Kent Bullard: one or that one?  Michael Smith: Lemme go.  Kent Bullard: I love that. Love.  Michael Smith: It's great.  Kent Bullard: I wanna shift the conversation here because you had leaned in and you said I saw in his eyes. So not only developing the people that you have, but how do you attract the people that are come? Kent Bullard: Like what are you looking for at the people that are coming in? What are some of the unique how do you approach hiring for a high performance team? How do you approach screening the right people into your team?  Eric Henley: I usually, the first thing I'll look for is humility. If I have a chest beater I have, I could tell you the technicians I've had in the past that I've hired on their proclamation of their skill and how they configure things out has always come with a poor culture fit. Eric Henley: Now, I will say that you can't just hire on culture. There has to be some skill and some abilities. There are people that are not built to work on, you know, do the mechanical side. There's people not built to talk to people on the sales side. But generally it is I'll read the personality first, just my discernment of them. Eric Henley: I don't, I haven't implemented a disc assessment. I just usually meet them. I'll meet 'em usually in the evening or on a weekend when no one's there. Walk them through the shop and just talk to them and kind of get a feeling of a couple hours with that person. If they've made it, you know, to me if they're just online or that kind of thing, I, it's hard to determine, you know, you can only get so much and a lot of 'em wanna text and there's a lack of, you can't really get a genuine feel of someone. Eric Henley: So I generally like to see someone face to face or hear their voice. The first interview I had that was really outside of the norm was my hire from Washington State. He was he sought us out off career forms on our website and he sent the career form in. One of my staff brought it to me, and I normally would not look at that very long and then file it because it's somebody from across the, you know, and I didn't, at that point, I didn't really need someone, it's part of the funnel. You know, you keep your funnel of people to as you're recruiting. But there was something different about the tone the way he spoke to me. And then I invited him out so I could meet them in person. And they were open to that before they ever decided to move here. And took him around, drove him around, showing him the area took him to the shop. Eric Henley: His husband, I mean, his wife came with him. And so we we just got to know him personally, what their likes were, what their interests were, and from there I could tell that it was gonna be a fit. So that's generally how I start off. I don't look for the skill or the certifications right off the bat. Eric Henley: They'll tell me about 'em, you know, 'cause that's part of the career form. But then from there it's just a it's a really, just a personal interaction, a conversation.  Michael Smith: Well, just to punctuate that point, I love the order that you put it in. If it's not a cultural fit, you're not interested in whether they have the technical skills or not. Michael Smith: And it's easier to find technical skills online than it is cultural fit online. So I just to validate your model, very smart way to do it. Don't waste your time Having technical validation and then finding it's not a culture fit. Right. The rarer thing is the culture fit.  Kent Bullard: I think it also kind of points to, I know this person has the right attitude. Kent Bullard: I know they have the right perspective, and if they're missing or having a few gaps in their technical competency, we can make up with training and we can teach them those skills. If there's somebody that's worth investing in terms of our team dynamic.  Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. And they'll want to,  Kent Bullard: and that they want to. Kent Bullard: Yeah,  Eric Henley: they'll want to, they'll come ask you to go to Charlotte for a weekend to learn about something. That they're interested in or they'll bring up online courses, or they'll be the one in today's class that is leading the pack. Their daily studies. So, Michael Smith: well and I'll say this right in technical skills is an intellectual learn and it goes in emotionally, you know, approved as another thing that will help my personal success. Michael Smith: Cultural stuff comes out of the heart, comes off the truth, tapes comes outta history, comes outta fear, comes outta prior success comes out of security and insecurity and esteem and all that. And so, you know, you can change technical skills at the intellectual level, a hell of a lot easier than you can change deep felt emotion based cultural tenets, right? Michael Smith: So PE people can change anything they want to change, but culture is a bigger stretch for an individual to go deep, scarier, harder to do. And so I again validates the approach that you take very smart right to to do the technical stuff at the end. So,  Eric Henley: but it takes a little longer. Because there, there's a whole lot of guys out there that you don't want. Michael Smith: Yes.  Eric Henley: And once you get them, it takes a while to get rid of them.  Michael Smith: Right.  Eric Henley: And they poison your culture  Michael Smith: well. So your model is you kiss a lot of toads. Right. And the s and princesses show up at that point, so, yeah. Yeah. Got it. Yep.  Kent Bullard: So as you're building your team and you're building your culture how do you approach the balance between driving for business results? Kent Bullard: 'cause obviously you need that to sustain the business to again, sustain the people and maintaining a supportive, human-centric environment.  Eric Henley: They you're speaking of KPIs, measurables who we created a scoreboard that is digital for the technicians to view each week. And it's updated each Monday from the previous week. Eric Henley: So they can actually see a lot of the things that we ask 'em to do. You know, you know, hours, perro, a RO, a car count pictures per inspection, all that proficiency, efficiency and productivity. So they can see that the service advisors have the reports and the point of sale we use to view their numbers. Eric Henley: But one of the things I started to implement more recently is an actual, just a little scorecard of a index card for them. 'cause I felt like there was something, we talked about one of our meetings about ink and pen and paper being more impactful and just having a digital thing that they look at. Eric Henley: So, so we talk about measurables. They are, they have to be measured. I mean, you don't know where you're at if you have no, you know, no measure. But see those are. Yeah, but the culture side of it is just like, you know, like, for instance, the technicians who are more bought in, look at your numbers. Eric Henley: Look at what you're doing. This is what's, I mean, this is what's driving this. And I think there's, the two of 'em are starting to get it. The other ones I'm not sure yet. The, again, these are the two that I'm thinking may or may not. So it, it's just a matter of, Hey guys, when we practice these things we've talked about and we live them out in the way we conduct ourselves here, as, as strange as this sounds, it just works out. Eric Henley: It's, I don't know that you could really give a direct description of how culture causes better production, but when you got it. It just does.  Michael Smith: It does. And I'll validate that, right? If you're chasing performance culture may or may not happen. But if you're killing the culture, performance happens because the people who are there are into what you believe in. Michael Smith: The meaning drives them from within. They want the KPIs to prove to themselves and the team around them that they're contributing to the success of the championship team you built. It really is driven. It's both. It's not either or. It's both culture and KPIs. Right? It's beautiful.  Eric Henley: We, we were just for instance, last week, we were two, two days out from the end of the month and 'cause we were closed Thursday and Friday and they had a ton of sold work and we had one out sick. Eric Henley: And so we asked the two, well they asked all the techs, but two of them, the two better culture fits that we have, they asked 'em to stay over and knock some work out after hours. So they were gonna sacrifice some of their time. We offered their supper, you know, or their dinner at, to buy 'em something to eat and to support them anyway. Eric Henley: And the service advisor stayed over to be sure that they, if they ran into a parks problem. So these guys were like, okay, but you're trying to finish your month out and it's important to you because of sales and we, this will be good for both because we'll bill more hours. And so it was reciprocal between the two of 'em. Eric Henley: It was, this is not the front and the back. This is us trying to hit our numbers and trying to serve our customers by getting the vehicle back to them before Thanksgiving day weekend, you know, where they might be needed to travel or extra car for something. And so there was several reasons that they did it. Eric Henley: The other one was sick. He couldn't help that. It was, but the other one chose not to. That was just a good indication to me. Like, okay, I can see the difference. This is a culture thing right here. He doesn't really care about anybody but himself and in this particular situation. So, I dunno if that answers your question, but, or if I got sidetracked  Kent Bullard: to, to kind, no. Kent Bullard: To kind of summarize this, you know, 'cause I'm thinking there's gonna be shop owners or there's gonna be professionals out there listening to the podcast that go, well, I'm nervous to put a scorecard up or a leaderboard up because I'm afraid that it's gonna breed com competition amongst my team. Kent Bullard: And it might create some divisiveness. But I think, Michael, you kind of hit the nail on the head by saying the right team is gonna look at that and compare it to their contribution to the team, not their contribution to their ego.  Michael Smith: Yeah I'll build on this, Eric. And we, and people are free to have different opinions about it. Michael Smith: I believe if you have a broken culture where people are competing against each other internally, having a scoreboard that's shared is a, that's a problem. If I had that, if I bought a shop and I found that I would pull that board down, I would go to individual conversations about personal performance and personal development on their individual paths to mastery. Michael Smith: Once I got the culture healed and grown. The fact that they're actually positive people working together. They're starting to act like a team. They're helping each other doing exactly what you talked about. Then I'd put the board back up again because at that point it's not like, oh Eric, you know, you got a better job than I did. Michael Smith: And they always do that. You know how things can go sideways in a bad culture. Once I believe in you and you believe in me, and you stayed over once to help me and I ran to the parts store when I was supposed to go home and brought it to you so you could finish your job. Once we get to that point, I want this stuff on the board because then I'm pushing you, you're pushing me, I'm encouraging you, you're encouraging me. Michael Smith: And at that point, the board is nothing but helpful in a toxic environment. The board is toxic. In a healthy environment, the board is healthy. Mm-hmm. And in between the transitions, little pieces of paper and little private conversations until you feel like it turned a corner. So it's a very interesting thing, right? Kent Bullard: You're  Michael Smith: kind, the board itself is not the issue.  Kent Bullard: You're kind of pulling it back 'cause you're like, Hey, you kind of have a skewed perspective on why we're doing this. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull back the curtains. I'm gonna try to re. Focus you in a different area so you can actually see the reason why we have these, reset those foundations. Kent Bullard: I love that.  Eric Henley: But, and that was one of the, when we rolled out vision, mission, values and principles, we said this is all about us serving our customer at a higher level. This is what all of this is about. And it's not about how many hours you build, it's not about primarily or about how many how much sales you produce that month. Eric Henley: Those will come if you care more about the customer's interest than how many hours you bill or how many sales you make, or how, what your average RO is. When that, when the primary driver is this, that we've agreed upon and we've collaborated and agreed upon this, then anything less than that is a violation of this. Eric Henley: And if you can't live by these things, then there's, I don't think you're gonna be satisfied here. And you will find that on the board,  Michael Smith: which is a great perspective, right? I'm not satisfied here. And the answer is then I would really encourage you to go find a place where you know, your you desire and the fit there is a better fit for you. Michael Smith: And then when they go, we always talk about putting a more culturally aligned person back in the slot, which is great. Yeah. Yeah.  Kent Bullard: So I wanna shift here. You know, we've been talking a lot about the culture, the values. How do you feel that your focus on those things has impacted your marketing or your brand identity to your customers and your community? Eric Henley: Oh, huge. I just, after we we did that exercise and I pretty much had it. We had it nailed down with a few edits. I went and my. My web content on the page is all different. It's gradually getting rolled out. It's not all like I want it yet. 'cause they, it, there's apparently a Google algorithm. Eric Henley: If you roll too much out, it can if you don't have a website, it's not a big deal. But if you've got a website that's ranking, then it can affect it. So, so we spent some money significant money making sure that our website communicates that in all the stuff that's written. So we had a very personal interview with the lady who wrote my content about, I want this in here. Eric Henley: I want that in there. The here's what we're, here's what we wanna communicate across every vehicle that they read about on our website or everything that's in on our website. We want these things woven into that. And so that's been. One of the ways that we've that we, that it's affected our marketing and branding and it's still going forward. Eric Henley: I'm still working on those things. As we learn more about it, of different ways our, the way I speak with people our referral group meetings is different. The way my service advisors, again it's been amazing, the effect it's made on the way they talk with each person. So that that re that that was one of our marketing goals the last two years. Eric Henley: Is that the best customer experience? That is, that is a marketing tool because those people will go tell other people and asking for the reviews. And when you're acting like you're supposed to, those reviews reflect it too. You'll see it in the. The way the customer replies in it, if they leave comments. Kent Bullard: Can I,  Eric Henley: our direct, go ahead.  Kent Bullard: Oh, I was gonna say, can I ask just for clarity, for the people who are listening to this, you were saying that your communication is different. The way you talk about it is different. The way that you're gonna, this up on your website is gonna be different. Can you give an example of what that would look like for the listener so that they understand why it's different? Eric Henley: Y yeah, because it's not just stating you know, we work on accuracy and we're the best. It's like, okay, this is your second largest investment. And we value the fact that this is, I'm not sure if I'm saying this correctly, but we want to be sure that this is safe for you and reliable. We want, we know that you're gonna be going to ball games. Eric Henley: And taking your family places. So the reason we do this thorough digital vehicle inspection is so that you have a clear picture of what's, I mean, just things like that, very personal details. And some of the things that Michael has talked about recently is that feeling you want to have that feel. Eric Henley: It's a story rather than you're just bragging about what you can do with each vehicle. Just in the content there, the About Us page, it talks about, you know, these things the vision, mission, values, and and I think we're we're even talking about doing the H Tech way thing that a couple from, I think Idaho mentioned and having that on there too. Eric Henley: It's just a, it's a more conversational way of communicating with people rather than just those canned content that we do this, we offer this, we do 3 36, all that, all the things that we all use. In our industry. It's weaving all that into it. And I guess I have to, there's so much of it. I forget how many pages we had of this, but each one she asked me a specific question, how do you wanna say that? Eric Henley: How do you want say So it's, and it'll be different for each owner because they'll want it said different ways. But I would encourage them not just to trust someone just to come up with it. You need to talk to that person, whoever it is, or persons who write your content and make that you what you want. Eric Henley: Said what your team once said and not just something that's universal to everybody else in the industry.  Michael Smith: Well, we grew up  Eric Henley: does that  Michael Smith: Oh yeah. We grew up as a transactional industry and the leading edge thinking. Up to this point has been, well, what if we talked in committed terms with our customers and we talked about our value proposition and our differentiation in the market, as if that takes it up a notch, which it does, we cross that third line into the meaning. Michael Smith: That's important to the customer. And now you've gone into this long-term covenant relationship building opportunity where the literally where the loyal brand ambassadors wanna live. And in a way, Eric, it's back to that unique competitive advantage. When you write this into your website, your marketing materials, and we've talked about this, it serves a dual purpose, not just to attract the loyal brand ambassadors, but it also det attracts, or dist attracts, or however you wanna think about it. Michael Smith: Dissuade it's dissuades, it's less attractive to the transactional customer who opens it up. Where's my coupon? Where's my cheap oil change? Where's my free component on my break job? Or whatever. And then all of a sudden they're like, meaning, mm-hmm There's stuff about meaning in here and life and safety. Michael Smith: And it's like, I just wanna know how much this thing's gonna cost me. And in a way you dissuade them. The other kind of customer from finding you to be the most attractive in their options too. It starts with dual purpose, which I think is really powerful. So  Eric Henley: for those, just for those that go to the website to look and see what we've done it's still in process so everything's not up. Eric Henley: So they'll, we'll work better right now. It's not all rolled out yet, so it's a  Michael Smith: work in progress there. Everybody. Give  Kent Bullard: Eric some grace here. Yeah.  Michael Smith: Give that right  Eric Henley: it. It's a process. Yeah. I thought you had all in there. Not yet. Not So it's still profit,  Kent Bullard: Eric, you kinda have to balance because you know, on one hand, yeah, you wanna express the value and the culture and those virtue points and all of that. Kent Bullard: At the same time, Google has laws and rules and in order to sustain your SEO there's some, it's a delicate process to interweave those things. So, I mean, yeah, it should take time instead of just a.  Michael Smith: Well, and kudos to your provider too, that number one understands the shift potential for disaster from your provider of services. Michael Smith: But the second thing is being able to listen and willing to listen and trying to come to understand what are you talking about, right? How would you say this here? How would you say that there we come from a standardized industry, right? Here's your transactional website, but I wanna put meaning in here. Michael Smith: And it's like, what you wanna do? What? And the fact that your provider of service is listening and working with you and asking in your opinion and thinking it through. And, you know, there's hope here that maybe they'll take some of this wisdom to our other industry peer group too and start to, to have this be new industry standards, which I think you guys are leading in this, right? Michael Smith: So  Eric Henley: yeah that's, and then, yeah, I think, I mean, not to beat, but I think we are one of the premier shops in the area. But the the other thing I learned from this, and this is just learning about Google Analytics and some of those things, is that it needs to be that way. Affect your local market. Otherwise you'd, you're like anybody else that's doing the same thing around you. Eric Henley: So if you're communicating these things across there, people are gonna feel it. They like the Subaru car commercial we talked about most recently. When the dad looks back at the crash car and the kids beside of them and they're safe because Subaru built a great vehicle that kept him from being hurt. Eric Henley: And he looks back and there's that feeling on his face that you can see like, man, I'm grateful. And so you want them as, as weird for our industry as that sounds. You want them to feel something different about you. You know, they remembered my dog was sick the last time I was in, they remembered that I just lost my dad, or, you know, they were. Eric Henley: They pull the car up for you and make sure it's warmed up. You know, just different things. So when they leave your shop, they don't leave any other shop that does, here's the key to your car somewhere out there. Have a nice day. Appreciate it. They don't get that. We thank you for being a guest with us. Eric Henley: Is there anything you don't understand about the repair that I can go more in depth with you? Are there any things that we recommended for the future that you don't understand why you need them? If you don't, if you don't have time now that just call me later if you need to discuss 'em further. Eric Henley: Maybe they didn't get back with you in time to go over the estimate. You know, just different things like that. It's that's the marketing and we don't do direct mail anymore except to retention, you know, to some of our customers at once a quarter. So, we're not using that for a traction. Eric Henley: We're using SEO and our, and just basically a better website. To draw people in. And so that's really framing a lot of what we that's our marketing, I guess, is try to answer your question in a real roundabout way.  Kent Bullard: On a psychological standpoint, how does that communication or that authenticity come through in branding, how does that affect the clients that are looking at the shop? Michael Smith: You know, the words themselves, we talk about this in the leadership intensive, is less than 10% impact on recollection and the way it sticks in the brain, you had a motion to it. It's 35%. More so the concept is you start talking about feelings. You start talking about safety. You get up into the meaning zone where people are drawing their own pictures in their head about this. Michael Smith: You're approaching 90, a hundred percent retention impact on the brand of the marketing messaging. So, you know, we go to this transactional thing, here's some words, here's a coupon. It has no meaning to it. It has no emotion to it. It's just a simple transaction. It's not very memorable from a branding standpoint either. Michael Smith: So the emotion really builds into then the relational component, which gets you close to a hundred percent. And this is the thing, right? In our industry, you wanna be top of mind in any moment. Yes, for maintenance, but also for the break. Something breaks in your car, the what you want them to do is instantly think of your brand and how can I get the car to them? Michael Smith: Oh, I'm a long way away. I don't care. How much does it cost to get the tow over there, a couple hundred bucks, that's my shop. Drive it over there right now. That's a long way. There's closer shops. I don't care. I'm coming to Eric, I'm coming to hd, whatever. And that's what you're building and that's what this meaning, and that's what this emotion adds to our transactional industry. Michael Smith: And it makes a big difference.  Eric Henley: Yeah. One of the things that I'm gonna push for too is that we all have our CRM and those a lot of times are stale and just kind of, you know, businessy, i'm gonna ask for some more customization of that and how we talk to when we send that out, how that is said to the customer. Eric Henley: I want it said in a way that represents us and not just a canned way that everybody does. A warm breathing. Oh, yeah. We were 30 days out from the last recommended services, you know, and just some things about why and what and and things that we can edit. And they're listening to me. Eric Henley: They're making a few changes here and there. I think we've got an interview with them next week. It's with you all and us and me and know. I'm not sure who else, but but just to make sure the CRM matches what we want too. And then the old fashioned way, I guess the only other thing I can think of we do the old fashioned way, is handwritten. Eric Henley: Thank you. Cards. We actually pay a lady to do it, but she gets the repair order, writes about the vehicle, and then puts a h Tech buck in there for dollars off. So that's another way that we do a personal touch an old school way. And we do see those come in a lot. They used to have my picture on it. Eric Henley: They call 'em Merris bucks. Now I finally took that off. It just has our logo on it. But anyway, that it's, that's another way we do it.  Kent Bullard: So, so it's safe to say over this journey, your the way you communicate has changed over time. Now, you know, what do you, what's different about your communication practices, both externally with your, you know, the vendors or your customers and internally with yourself and your team? Kent Bullard: What do you think is different now?  Eric Henley: I think as far as internally, it's just more depth to it. I mean, I've always been big on the relationship, but I think I'm looking more into act. I would've said that I've not been an active listener as we all in our culture generally like to have the next idea. Eric Henley: And we're trying to talk over each other. And Zoom's made it hard 'cause there's the lag, and sometimes you can't, it's hard to overcome that. Or to pause. Tommy Nicholson, a guy in the industry he taught me a good lesson one time. We read a book, never split the difference. And he was my composite partner. Eric Henley: And I noticed that when he was talking to somebody, he would, when they replied, there was a long pause, a long, a awkward pause until he spoke. That taught me a lesson about listening and it helped me, and that I'm gradually learning more things. My wife will say that I'm a much better listener after 30 years than I was early in our life. Eric Henley: Congratulations, by the way. So personally it helps on the personal side and it just helps them alive. So be an active listener that'll develop your culture a lot. When people feel like they're heard they feel valued outward facing, the same way the way we present. Make sure the customer feels like they're heard, that, that you have listened actively to get as much information from them to make sure you address what they, and then be honest if you didn't, if you lo if you lost it somewhere, maybe we got the wrong noise. Eric Henley: Yeah. That happens, you know? Okay. I'm sorry, Mrs. Jones. We thought for sure that the strut about the fallout from under your vehicle was the noise, but apparently there's a noise that we didn't understand that you meant, you know. So we'd love for you to come back in. This is our second opportunity to get this right and we'd love to ride with you and to be sure we understand exactly what you're talking about. Eric Henley: And so we can make this right for you and you might make anyway.  Kent Bullard: So for, sorry. I was gonna say, so for those who as I interrupt you as we're talking about communication, I apologize. It's  Eric Henley: okay. Okay.  Kent Bullard: For those out there who have heard the term active listening and still don't quite understand it, what does something, what does active listening look like in, and I'll open this to both of you guys. Kent Bullard: What does acting look like in practice?  Eric Henley: Michael?  Michael Smith: You want me to go first? I really,  Eric Henley: really appreciate.  Michael Smith: Yeah. It's yeah it's a style of communication where you're, I think we talk about in the leadership intensive communication that's one way is perceived by everybody involved as being a lower level of affect than communication is perceived as being two-way. Michael Smith: So from the standpoint that this quiet time, this silence, this moment, number one, people who have a lot to say and haven't finished yet, you give 'em a little extra silence and they'll jam a little more in the gap and then they'll jam a little more in the gap. And you let that go a little bit and you'll learn more than you learned before. Michael Smith: But it's that being able to pause and actually listen and have real communication. The root we talked about is the of communication is union. The word is union. So you're making a union between two people and coming to an understanding and active listening is just positioning yourself. Not you know, here's us, right? Michael Smith: We come from a position of sharing lots of industry wisdom with our clients, and we have fun sharing it. It'd be really easy to sit back and just spill wisdom all over everybody that comes from the general field, from outside of this industry, et cetera, and not listen to a thing our clients say and what really matters is what's happening in their life and how it comes home. Michael Smith: And so having that relationship of a real genuine, it's almost a friendship. Of caring and listening and understanding and under getting into the mind of the person that you're talking to and letting them share what's important to them. And again, they have their needs. They'll walk up and go, I need you to do this. Michael Smith: And what you talked about very effectively earlier, we then try to get into the wants. It's like, well, let's talk about what you want for this vehicle. Lead you into that stewardship relationship, lead you into that real genuine two-way flow. And when you do that, then the communication, you slow it down. Michael Smith: You ask a lot of questions. You listen. You don't have automatic answers. You come to conclusions together. When you do both sides buy into it. It's just a different way of, it's a win-win in the end, right? Not a you win and they may lose, but as long as you get your a RO and your credit card, you know, check out of it you're good. Michael Smith: This model is very much of a two-way flow and a win-win that they walk away and they go, I like that place. They listened to me. They cared about me. They did, we, they helped me figure this out. And that's a big thing in our industry too, and I'll stop talking at this point, but there's a lot of mystery about, you know, lift the hood and look underneath it. Michael Smith: Most of us, me included, I couldn't begin to tell you what's under there. I wouldn't even lift it. I'd bring it to you. And so that idea that I don't know what I don't know. And so I, if you'll be patient with me and you'll ask me questions and you'll walk me through what you're seeing and explain to me what's happening. Michael Smith: I don't need to know how to repair an engine, but it really makes me feel good that you would give that grace to me and give me that time. And it makes me trust you and it makes me want to come back and work with you. My second biggest investment that you talked about, which is absolutely right, we all know people walk in and they wanna spend the least amount of money they can to keep that depreciating asset rolling. Michael Smith: That's what is in the back of people's minds. So they walk in and the older the car gets, the more the repair potential looks like. And it's like that's not a place that most people wanna be in that moment. And so how do we bridge that gap? And what you're talking about is. Being with them, stewarding it with them, thinking through it with them, you sharing openly. Michael Smith: They trust you. They ask your advice. They're not feeling guarded. They, you know, okay, go ahead and do that. Should I wait? I wouldn't if I were you. But we can, here's my thought. Okay, go ahead and do it right. And even if it's a stretch at that point, it's a win-win, trust based, long-term, loyal brand ambassador building relationship. Michael Smith: And that you can't get there if you don't have two-way active listening communication. You just can't get there. You'll never get there.  Eric Henley: One of the things I would say, just a practical application we've learned, and this is through through the never split, the difference is the mirror. So if you don't understand the person, what they've described to you, use the last three words, three to five words of what they said, an upward inflection and then listen. Eric Henley: 'cause they'll bring out more. And then when you're done, just to make sure you understood, you do the label, you label what they said. Okay, Mrs. Jones sounds like, seems like this is what you're describing. Is that correct? And if she says That's right, then you know you've got it. If not, she, people love to correct and they will correct you and say, no, actually it means this. Eric Henley: And then the only other thing I would add is the mirror can also be used to diffuse a situation. If you use a more of a downward deflection instead of going up, if they go high. And, you know, say you've got someone who's becoming all right and they don't feel like you're hearing them, just use the mirror in a downward tone very calmly, and then listen and pause. Eric Henley: Use the pregnant, pause and listen. So there, there's some things we've learned about just very practical ways to communicate with people.  Kent Bullard: I love that. You know, throughout this morning we've talked about developing, high performing team, how we're hiring the myriad of benefits of all these things. Kent Bullard: I'd love to take a different approach here and ask, you know, what are some of the challenges that you've faced in creating this culture of continuous improvement and how have you overcome them?  Eric Henley: So that's, so if you come from a very critical say a critical raring of your parents, maybe had a father or a mother that was always finding something like, okay, so you're never satisfied with it. Eric Henley: And so some people might have that baggage. I offer, one can say that I came up that way with my dad. He was a very dominant and he would, even though I love my dad, he had his. Little things,  Kent Bullard: Eric, I think we have a lot in common.  Eric Henley: Yes.  Michael Smith: All delivered because they wanted you to grow up quickly and efficiently and help you. Michael Smith: Right? So I'm gonna criticize you right. To excellence, right?  Eric Henley: They're very similar things about, and I could appreciate that too, but not, I'm not downing you, Cecil, I promise. But the so the thing you'd have to overcome is that, okay, we can always get better and that has to be okay. We can always improve. Eric Henley: It's not, I'm cri criticizing you to show you where you're wrong and you didn't do as well. The tone is that I just like, I want to improve myself. I am not where I need to be. I want you to improve as well and become a better person, better, better husband to your wife, better leader in your community and your church, or whatever it is you do outside of here. Eric Henley: Not just within here. This makes you a whole person better. So I wanna encourage you to grow and always look for ways to improve and don't think of it as a negative. It's not. So I guess just thinking off the top of my head, that's the way I would communicate across continuous improvement. Kent Bullard: I, I mean, you said that so succinctly and so perfectly. Kent Bullard: I love that answer. You have to be comfortable. You have to be okay with, we can always be better. And I can see that, you know, e even in my own personal journey of like, man, I'm not done yet. I thought I was done. I want to be done. And it hurts to go through that process of admitting, yeah, I probably have some things to learn and it's painful, but I mean, it's a practice, you know? Kent Bullard: You said that perfectly. This is a great answer. I love that.  Eric Henley: Yeah. I probably borrowed it from somebody, but. Eric Henley: We all don't we all? There's nothing,  Michael Smith: nothing new under the sun. I heard.  Eric Henley: Right. There you go. So it's all  Michael Smith: that's  Kent Bullard: come around somewhere before. So, so Eric, do you have a, do you have a special person or a specific person whose personal growth journey has been particularly meaningful to you?  Eric Henley: Oh gosh. Yeah. Eric Henley: My son I guess some of the motivation for all of this is that I'm gonna tee it off for him to have the best experience growing himself. And he desires to succeed me in this. So he doesn't face some of the things I just kind of cobbled my way through. So I've watched him like I said, he's become a self to the point where I've had to say, listen, son I want you to stop at eight o'clock and talk to your wife and his wife, Alyssa. Eric Henley: Alyssa. And I've said, and her presence, she says, yes, Seth. Stop reading so much. So, he's got his little study now. I actually helped him carry a desk that Lisa's dad made for him is a handmade desk. Carried it up several flights of stairs to their condominium. And he is got his own little study in their spare bedroom now. Eric Henley: And he is budgeting. He, his time, he's journaling. And he was my messy son that wouldn't keep his clothes off the floor and his bed made. And he was, when he was at home, he was the mess. But now he's this organized kid. His desk is organized at the shop. His, all of his Ros are organized. Eric Henley: It's just watching him develop is, has probably been, you know, it is your son. So, I mean, there's always that, you know, you can't not, when you see your son doing something, well, you won't be proud of him. But just I just know this is gonna be something going forward that will make him, he will not have to go through all these struggles. Eric Henley: And maybe, I mean, he'll probably make a few band of hires. Somebody will slip through the cracks. There may be a desperate moment, but he'll know what to look for and he'll know how to handle it and work his way out of it, or through it or over it. And then watching my I te my one, my newest technician, Cole, I just mentioned him by name. Eric Henley: Not that my other one, Dakota's not growing in that. But Cole's desire to improve himself. He and Seth are having deep conversations of the Theo Theological things, biblical things. They're having interpersonal relationships. And Cole and I will have those at times too when I make my stroll through the shop. Eric Henley: Just to talk to the guys. I say What's going on with you, and he'll tell me a struggle he is having and we'll personally and we'll. We talk these things through. So seeing that change in him is rewarding. For me, I think it's more rewarding to see somebody improve themselves than it is to have a good sales month or a good, you know, build hours, whatever. Eric Henley: If I see a difference in the person that's a celebration to  Michael Smith: have. Yeah. You know, you know, the science says that we're all wired to grow. To find meaning in life. And that's the most satisfying life. And you're facilitating that. Your son, your technician, you're making a pathway for them and a culture and an encouragement for them to grow and to grow fearlessly and tackle lots of things very, as I always talk about Da Vinci style, right? Michael Smith: Master something until you're satisfied and pick up something completely different and master that too. And at the end of it, you're a master of mastery, right? Which is a phenomenal gift to give that you're giving legacy wise. So, yep.  Eric Henley: Sorry.  Michael Smith: No, go ahead. Yeah,  Eric Henley: it's the infectious thing too. You see it starting to spread across the front and the relationships he is got with the other two guys. Eric Henley: And one of 'em is, I mean, I've got the, Matt's my service manager. I didn't wanna put my son in a position of leadership just because he is Aze boy, you know? So he has got somebody over him and they're all infecting each other in positive ways and affecting technicians in the back, in the way they deal with 'em. Eric Henley: So this type of. Culture is it sort of goes out into the shop and those that don't wanna be involved with it will get uncomfortable with it. And those that do those get even better. Kent Bullard: I think being a high performer or being in a high performance culture is all about living in the space of mentorship, both being a mentor to someone and also seeking mentorship for whatever your pursuit looks like. Kent Bullard: So living in both spaces is where you kind of get in the flow of development, of mastery. Your focus on human development how has that changed you as a leader? Eric Henley: Good question. It's given me confidence in, i'm equipping my people, which has given me freedom to do other things that I wanna do to help others. It's given the opportunity to serve in my church in the capacity I haven't been able to. It's given me opportunities to do work in the community that I would've been, had it have been a ic type of environment at the shop then I wouldn't have had that freedom. Eric Henley: And so now I can do a lot of things that I otherwise couldn't. It has made it a little uncomfortable adjusting to not being needed. And so, so for those that not are not at that point yet, you almost feel guilty for not being there. But they actually do better and they'll ask you, what are you doing here today? Eric Henley: You know, you were just here yesterday. We don't need you. Here,  Kent Bullard: go home.  Michael Smith: Let us do it ourselves. Really? Oh, can I help somehow? No, we're fine. Really? Is there nothing I can  Kent Bullard: do? I think, not to interrupt, but I think when you're at a point where your team is telling you, Hey, it's okay, we don't need you. Kent Bullard: That's them. Admit, that's them almost saying, I want to prove to you that you've done a good job in stewarding me. I wanna show you that your investment in me, I isn't fruitless.  Eric Henley: Yep. For a technician will something, 'cause I'm a technician, you know, I've been one, been in the trade 30, 80 years. Hard to believe. Eric Henley: But the technician will come to me sometimes when I'm making a stroll through the shop, and he'll ask me about a particular problem he is having with one. And I'm like, what's going on with it? And then again, I'll do the same thing. Well, what do you think? And he'll tell me and. Most of the time, I'm like, you know, you'll just I can see how something went wrong here, but you're a great technician. Eric Henley: Something just unfortunate happened has happened to me many times. When you can relate to them in that way that you're in a place I mean, I've been in your shoes and I made it through it, and so will you, 'cause you are a good technician. You'll overcome this. Don't beat yourself down. Eric Henley: Mistake is a good way to learn something to move on to something better the next time. So, it's just a, it's, it frees them, frees you, and tell you personal relationships too. I mean, like I told you, 30 years married to the same lady. She knows all the little faults I've had through the past and and she can see improvement. Eric Henley: It's commented on those things that actually listen to her now. And and that value her her opinion about things where normally I would've said, I've got this figured out now I'm gonna do that. And you know, me, I'm not a dominant type, I'm not a real domineering type person. That's not my personality. Eric Henley: But I still have those things where I like, okay, I've got my opinion about it, and that's it. And nobody else is right. I've learned that there are other people that are right. And I, and I can have a, I can have relationships with somebody. I either, either whatever their church is or whatever their politics are. Eric Henley: I can have a relationship with people. Now I will say that's another area I've learned that I can actually talk to people I don't necessarily agree with on a particular subject and still have a relationship with 'em. We don't have to agree on everything to lock each other and spend time together. Eric Henley: So it, it'll help you in that sense too.  Michael Smith: Society needs more of that nowadays. So it's like  Kent Bullard: what a novel concept.  Michael Smith: Yeah. What an idea. Right. You have a different way of thinking. And I can still be your friend,  Eric Henley: huh?  Michael Smith: It's okay. It's okay.  Kent Bullard: So Eric what advice would you give to the leaders out there who are listening to this, that are aiming to create a workplace that prioritizes growth, that, you know, invests in the wellbeing of their people and is pushing for high performance? Kent Bullard: What would you tell them?  Eric Henley: Yeah, so you're gonna need accountability and you're gonna need somebody push you along. 'cause we don't want change some comfortable even if you've got, say your numbers are great and you're pushing production to the shop and your sales are great and your culture stinks, it's awful. Eric Henley: If you don't have other peers around you and frequently around you. Or a phone call away, you won't change. So making the investment into this group, the high performance group, well, for that matter, that you all aspects of what you guys offer will move you in a direction that will make you better. Eric Henley: And you wouldn't, you would not believe the change. You will look back, like I said, it was a blur. You will look back and think, well, wow, that's a long way from where I was at, and I didn't realize where I was at. That you've got, now you've got a place to measure from, and then you see what changes it's made in you. Eric Henley: So I would encourage you to get involved in this group. And it'll be well worthwhile, your time and your, and whatever it costs you to be involved in it and your organization and your business will be better for it and your life for that matter. So I'm just that, I guess that. Is that concise enough? Eric Henley: Does that make sense?  Kent Bullard: I find it interesting that we are both reluctant to change. Change is painful, but at the same time, humans are wired to change and grow and develop. You know, from a psychological standpoint we're, we seek that, that development, that growth.  Michael Smith: We're happier when we do,  Kent Bullard: right. Michael Smith: When we cut loose and just let ourselves do that. We find more satisfaction in life than when we don't.  Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Life is short,  Michael Smith: but it's risky. It's risky because you might realize you don't know something you thought you did or you might change your mind. It's like uhoh,  Kent Bullard: it's like, I'm quite comfortable with my world. Michael Smith: I like now I like being broken and I'm fine. Don't stir me up. Right. Don't disturb me.  Kent Bullard: I got one final question to ask as we wrap up. This has been such a wonderful morning, Eric. Thank you so much for being here and walking us through your experience and your time. I've got one final question for you. Kent Bullard: What legacy do you hope your focus on human development will leave within your organization and your community?  Eric Henley: Yeah, that's, and it's personal too because I have a son who's in it, you know, as I mentioned before. So one of our things in the, I think it's in our vision, it's probably interlacing some of the other ones right now, just trying to think through, but that we want to redeem the negative opinion that people have about our industry. Eric Henley: We want it to be one that, okay, these people are different and this is why they're different. And we want our guys to and our ladies for that matter to think about that in terms of the way they do their job every day when they come in. You're moving the needle away from what we've been painted as unethical. Eric Henley: Can't be trusted industry to someone who sets the standard for that, that we wanna be though that shining beacon, I guess, that people look at and like, that's different there. And so I want, as Seth decides to develop and as you know, even if our. Even if the team that we have now moves on to something else, I want them to be to look back at what they've learned with us and and make a difference in the world. Eric Henley: Whatever way they are occupied with at that time. You know, whether it's in their families, whether they go to a different, say they go to financial investing we want 'em to be the best they can be in that. And they can and they can maybe look back, not for us to beat our chest, but hey, if I haven't worked for them and learned these things culturally of how they interact with people and what's really important in life then I would not be as successful at what I'm doing now. Eric Henley: So, whether they stay with us or not, we make a, we're making an investment in people's lives. We're gonna change the industry we're in, but we're gonna try to change the world too in the way we live out. Or with people around us, what they see in us. So  Michael Smith: can I just grab a piece of what you said? A legacy of raising up legacy levers. Michael Smith: It's a multiplication model, right? It's not just your legacy. You're raising up people who know how to leave legacies to go leave their legacies, which will ultimately raise up legacy levers, which I, it is just, it's a profound thing you're working on. Thank you for sharing that. That's really powerful. Michael Smith: Really powerful.  Eric Henley: It's still in process.  Michael Smith: The website's not quite done yet. Right? So  Kent Bullard: You mentioned redeeming the image of the industry. I always go back. I've underlined encircled redemption a few times throughout this conversation. I think it's just such a beautiful sentiment. Kent Bullard: Eric, thank you so much for being here. Listeners, if you have any questions or comments about what we covered today, please comment down in the comment section below. Eric Henley, h Tech Auto Care outta Tennessee. Thank you so much for your time today. This has been such a treat.  Michael Smith: Yeah, it's a pleasure to know you Eric Henley: to visit with you guys.   Michael Smith: It's a pleasure to know you too, my friend.  Eric Henley: Likewise. I'll see you soon.  Michael Smith: Yes you'll,  Kent Bullard: those of you who want more information about what we do at the institute, you can find more info at. We are the institute.com. Thank you for listening.  

186 - What Intentional Growth Looks Like in a Real Shop: The Story of LaFlamme’s Auto & Truck Services January 14, 2026 - 01:03:10   Show Summary: JR and Sarah LaFlamme share how running a four bay shop with too few hands pushed them to seek coaching and build structure instead of burnout. They walk through the turning points that changed everything including adopting digital vehicle inspections building a real parts and pricing strategy and hiring the right roles in the right order. The conversation highlights how community driven hiring and culture shaped their team and how letting go of emotional pricing protected their value. Parker Branch adds perspective from his own shop journey and explains why coaching accelerates clarity and confidence. The episode ends with practical encouragement for owners who feel too busy or unsure to invest in help.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development Parker Branch, Industry Coach  Guest(s): Sarah & JR LaFlamme, Owners of LaFlamme's Auto & Truck Services Show Highlights: [00:08:45] – Their breaking point came when the team dropped to just the two of them [00:10:10] – A parts pricing webinar exposed a major blind spot and sparked change [00:12:30] – JR explains what it was like running four bays as the only main tech [00:16:10] – Best hiring results came from community word of mouth not job ads [00:18:40] – Hearing a tech is happier than ever confirmed their culture is working [00:21:10] – Digital vehicle inspections became the biggest game changer for trust and sales [00:23:20] – The 300 percent rule set expectations and created consistency shop wide [00:27:00] – Their ARO jumped from about 300 to over 600 after DVIs and better quoting [00:28:40] – They stopped emotional pricing and protected the value of their work [00:38:10] – JR begins shifting from bottleneck tech to owner leader and trainer   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/onJEq3WCoTA Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or good night, depending on when and where you're watching this from. It is a beautiful day outside, no matter where you are. Go outside, breathe some air, stand in some grass. Get grounded. We, and that is what we're gonna do here today. I am so excited for this conversation we're gonna have here today with our guests. Jimmy Lea: It's going to be amazing. And this is to be an interactive webinar. So those of you who are joining us, we are live on Streamy Yard, we're live on YouTube, we're live on Facebook. Go down into that comment section and comment where it is that you're joining us from today. Love to give a shout out to your shop, to you. Jimmy Lea: Put in your shop names, city, state, wherever it is that you are joining us from. Would love to give you that shout out because you are here. You're here for the live event, which means you can see all the mistakes, all the mishaps, all of the. Live stuff that happens in a live production. We are here for the live and it, this is so much fun. Jimmy Lea: I love being here with you, my friend. Love having this conversation. Love having this opportunity to document who and what we are, what makes us awesome and amazing. What helps us to build a better business, a better life, and a better industry. Love that we're all here together. Alright, let's give some shout outs. Jimmy Lea: Uh, first off to Brad Edwards joining from Plainview, Texas. Brad, thank you for being here. What's the name of your shop? Brad Edwards. Uh, we got Jay McCall. Good morning Forest went good morning. Yes, good morning to all of you. Angie. Deep Creek Auto in ell, Idaho. Did I say that right? Angie? Deep Creek Auto. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. ELL, Idaho. My parents have a house in, uh, Idaho Falls. Are you close? Is Buell close? Matt's Import Haven, Whidby Island, Washington. Welcome, Matt. Glad you're here. Jay, with j and v, automobile, Alabama. Jay, how the heck are you, brother? Gotta get down to get some good food from Alabama. Again. My parents also own a home in Pensacola, Florida. Jimmy Lea: So when we go to visit mom and dad, Jay, I'm gonna have to swing by and say hello. Brad Edwards. Uh, TE Texas. Texas Edwards Auto Service, Rish. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. R oh Rish, you're new with the institute. W what's your shop? Put in your shop here so we can say Hello. Rish. Glad you're here. Dante. Jimmy Lea: Merv in Walnut Creek, California. Dante. Welcome. Glad you're here, Angie. Yes, I did say it right. Oh, cool. Thank you. Uh, Clint Jones, Concord New New Hampshire met you before events. Long time Kui customer. Clint. Glad you're here, Clint. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you being here. Angie, McCabe, about three hours away. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, that's, that's a little far. Okay. When I go visit mom and dad, we'll have to make a special trip. Kent Bullard. Hey, Jimmy. Hey Kent. How are you? Thanks for tuning in. Kent's in our headquarters in Ogden, Utah, the international headquarters for the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. Ogden, Utah. Jimmy Lea: Rish is with Meno. Autoworks in Mississauga, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. Oh, Rish. I think I've been through there. Uh, I drove up there one time. I went into, uh, Toronto and drove all the way up to Blue Chip. Casino. That was awesome. That was so much fun. Uh, Clint accomplished auto also new with the institute. Jimmy Lea: Welcome, Clint. Glad you guys are here. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody that's here for this live event. And, and to that comes our guest, our guest here to with us today. Thank you. Uh oh. And Cecil Buller joining from the Institute International Headquarters in Ogden, Utah. Thank you Cecil for being here, brother. Jimmy Lea: Uh, that's awesome. To our guests joining us today, a facilitator, a coach, a one-on-one phenomenon, a member of the single club, the $1 million Net Club. Parker Branch. Parker, with Parker Auto, Parker Branch, branch Automotive, and Truck. Parker, how are you, brother? Parker Branch: Doing good. Joining you from Branch Automotive and also representing the institute. Parker Branch: Thanks for the intro, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Uh, you're welcome. Throw up his, uh, branch Parker Branch, branch Automotive in Highland Ranch, Colorado. I've had the distinct opportunity of spending some time with Parker and his wife at his home. There was one summer that we went up there for a National Speakers Association conference, and Parker was very kind. Jimmy Lea: Thank you Parker, for extending the, uh, invitation to come and stay with you and your, uh, your family there. That what a beautiful home you have. Thank you. Parker Branch: Thank you. It was fun having you and Rhonda down at the place. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. How's the shop doing now that we're into 2026? Parker Branch: We're, we're doing well, we're, we're starting off the year pretty good. Parker Branch: Um, excited about January. Taking some direction finally. I know we've all in the industry have noticed last year was a little flatter than a lot of people wanted, but um, still moving in the right direction. Had some positive growth and a good start to the year. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. And congrats on your accomplishments with what you've done there with your shop and, and being the recipient, the one and only single recipient of the $1 million Net Club. Jimmy Lea: Congrats brother. Parker Branch: Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. We're gonna try to do it again and again. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. Please do. Keep doing it and, and, and spread that, spread that mindset, spread that desire to others. Uh, we, we just, just honored to have you as a coach and one of your proteges as, uh, Josh was saying the other day. Jimmy Lea: He's gonna tune in to hear about your Prodigy with Sarah and JR La Flame with the Flame Auto out of, uh. You guys are in Massachusetts? Parker Branch: Yep. They're LA Lambs. They're, they're rock stars. They've, they've been great. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, they, wow. And Parker Branch: Hi everyone. Jimmy Lea: Hey. How are you? There you are. Sarah and jr. Oh, Jr LaFlamme: thanks for having us. Sarah LaFlamme: We are in Massachusetts. We are in Westfield, Massachusetts, which is on the other side of the state from Boston. So most people just assume Boston, but we're not near there. Jimmy Lea: You're not from Boston, so we can't expect the Boston accent then at all. Sarah LaFlamme: I mean, we can fake it. We could Jr LaFlamme: try that. Jimmy Lea: We all have to fake it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, forget about it. Well, that, that's cool. You guys had some pretty good weather here just recently. Sarah LaFlamme: Yes. We got into the forties. Yeah. Which is like a heat's steady, that's a heat wave in January and New England. So it's been, it's been nice. Went out with just a sweatshirt and a t-shirt yesterday. Jimmy Lea: I, I had a very humbling experience, so I've just recently moved from the desert to the cold weather. Jimmy Lea: Uh, I'm a desert rat. I admit it. I fully admit it. I get cold easily. I don't like being cold. I was walking into Costco in my stocking cap and jacket and walking out of Costco was a gentleman in a tank top and shorts. Sarah LaFlamme: Was it 35 degrees that day? Jimmy Lea: It was. Sarah LaFlamme: We would do that too. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. We have people out here that shovel snow in shorts. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Uh, Wayne, Wayne Marshall talks about all the time he's out in his flip flops, shoveling snow in shorts and a tank top. And it just gets the job done, you know? Jr LaFlamme: Yep. Yeah. You gotta do what you gotta do. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Well, the LA Flames, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us. I've got so many questions for you. Did a deep dive into your notes. Thank you, Parker, for taking copious notes as your coaching with JR. And Sarah, this is awesome. Uh, I, I want to kick this off by asking a question about coaching and training. Jimmy Lea: What is it, well, when you first started with coaching with Parker, what was the pain that finally pushed you to say, yes, we need help? And, and that's probably before Parker, that's probably going back to when, uh, uh, one of my guys reached out to you from the institute. What was that pain point that said, Ooh, yeah, you know what, we need some help. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. So the, the pain for us, I think, started well in advance of us reaching out to the institute. Um. We were in, I think our second full year. And, um, we had, um, an employee who had to take a leave. So when we went from three of us to just us, that was it. So he became the main technician. I was, became the main service advisor and doing everything else that you need to do to run a business. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and so, and we were, it was okay for a little bit and we were trekking through and we were like, we can do this. Yeah. And then, um, we started getting a little bit busier and we started seeing the cracks. There were, you know, we were, you know, not hitting deadlines with cars. I, I was missing deadlines on administrative things. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and I was like, we just can't keep running around like chickens with our heads cut off. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. I mean, I was working 70, 80 hours a week, like nonstop and it was pretty much burning me out. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Jr LaFlamme: Being the only tech and so on and so forth. So. Sarah LaFlamme: We were taking our work home with us. We are married. Um, so we were working 24 hours a day essentially, because we would leave here, go home, we'd be with our kids, but we'd be talking about work because there's just not enough. Sarah LaFlamme: There wasn't enough time in the day 'cause we were trying to wear every hat. Um, so when we realized that the kids were, you know, and our home life was suffering, we said enough, we can't do this anymore. Um, and we actually ran into the institute's name by, um, joining a webinar kind of like this. Um, but it was about parts matrix and parts markup. Sarah LaFlamme: And Cecil actually had done that. He partnered with Parts Tech and it was an such an eye-opening webinar. We learned so much. 'cause before that we just had no idea how to properly price our parts. We were just from the seat of flying from the seat of our pants. So, um. That was such an eyeopening thing and I gained so much confidence based on what he said, that that's why I decided to reach out to the institute when we finally said, okay, this is enough. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. And then I believe it's Kent. Um, I saw a webinar that he did about pretty much giving yourself some freedom and, and getting to a certain point. And that's when we had a conversation saying, Hey, you know, maybe it's time to look into this option, you know? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. And Cecil is listening. Jimmy Lea: So big shout out to Cecil. Thank you so much. And the parts markup matrix webinar, that, that is a webinar that just keeps on giving and giving and giving. It's, we partnered with tech, parts Tech, wonderful partnership. Just to let you know on numbers, there were like 1200 people that registered. 900 showed up the day of the event. Jimmy Lea: It's the most we've ever had in a webinar with the institute. The questions were coming through so fast and furious that it was quite literally overwhelming to be on the production side of trying to answer all these questions. Cecil did a phenomenal job, consummate professional. Thank you, Cecil. Jimmy Lea: Appreciate that. Shout out to you. Jr LaFlamme: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: So into those problems, here you are, you've discovered it. You have, 'cause you guys have four bays, right? You've got the building with three and then the, the outbuilding with the fourth. Jr LaFlamme: Yes, that's correct. Jimmy Lea: Are you saying Jr that you were the tech, you were, you were covering all four bays. Jr LaFlamme: That's correct. That's what was going on. I had, he's the Sarah LaFlamme: master. Jr LaFlamme: I was running three bays here and I set up some, a whole stool set up on the other side. Yeah. And nonstop. Sarah was doing service advising and invoicing and estimates why I'm full throttle out here and it just, I'm helping her in between, like with quoting and stuff. Jr LaFlamme: And that's, and that's pretty much why we're here. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So I, you know, I, I, I hear it. And, and you know, we, we, in the automotive industry, we know how to work, we know how to work hard. And you've proven this, you can do the 70, 80 hours. Do you want to? No. But can you Yes. Parker, you are coaching them. I, it had to be like, one of the first things you said was, Hey, we need to hire some techs. Parker Branch: Yeah. When, when, uh, when I got together with them, they had, um, they had rehired, I think Chris, and, and they had, uh, Tyler. Helping out in the shop as well. And he was able to help get some of the repairs and stuff done. JR was still staying out in front with diagnosis and, and keeping the operation running. Parker Branch: Sarah was still running the front and it, it was fun to work with him and 'cause so many of us technicians or you know, technician and wife turn business owner decide we're gonna go out and do this on our own. Um, you know, I came through the same channels they did, I had the great idea that I'm gonna go start a shop and it's gonna be me and I'll have the phone in my pocket and the wrench in my hand and I'm gonna do it all. Jr LaFlamme: Yep. Parker Branch: And you know, trial and error help. You know, Cecil had a big impact on helping me understand structure and you know, when to add what position, which can be terrifying. Um, but I know, you know, Sarah and JR are go-getters and so. We would talk about some of these changes. Adding, you know, adding a service advisor. Parker Branch: I, I would love to hear what fears and feelings they had about that. And I just to share with everybody I've heard it. Um, but it's a scary thing. And the difference and the change and the business by adding that position was un you know, was awesome. And then later on we were able to actually add a technician to take some of the pressure off of JR. Parker Branch: And change some of their roles. So I, I'd love to hear some of, you know, how they felt about that and, and turn it over to you Jimmy, to, to, you know, elicit some of, or, you know, pull some of that out. 'cause it's, it's great help for everybody to hear that, you know, we all come through the same channels. Jimmy Lea: We we do. Jimmy Lea: And it's interesting. So similar, the two stories of technicians turned, shop owners, you guys both have the same story I, at which I love. I absolutely love that. And, and interviewing. Is my nemesis, that's my kryptonite, JR. Sarah, you've gotta interview, you've gotta bring in another tech. What do you do? How do you find the right butt to put in the right seat on the bus? Sarah LaFlamme: So for technicians, you know, we, we tried the traditional ways we, you know, put up an ad online. Um, I even went as far as to put an ad in our local newspaper. Come to find out, nobody reads it anymore. Um, Jr LaFlamme: whoa. Shucker. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. It was worth a shot. I was, I was, I was drawn at straws. So, um, so we tried the traditional, um, methods first and then, um. Sarah LaFlamme: We, we got lucky with, um, Tyler. We actually got him through one of our tool skies that came through. He actually recommended him to us, so we got lucky with him. And then, um, and then we've had, we've put other ads out In the meantime, we actually have used, um, a hiring company that Parker recommended to us, which is amazing. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and, um, and we, that's worked out well. Um, but we've actually seen a lot of ex, a lot of. The best, um, progress with getting technicians, word of mouth through people. So we're very, we're kind of in a small community. We're very community driven. We live in the town that our business is in. Yeah. So everything we do, um, how we market everything, how we live, how the culture of our business is run is based on community. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, so that's kind of how we got our last tech, Steve, which is our, he's a master tech. So, um, we actually just being known in the community, happened to be walking in to drop my daughter off at daycare. And one of the employees is like, my husband needs to come work for you. And so, yeah. Amazing. So, oh, Jimmy Lea: that's awesome. Sarah LaFlamme: You just never, you would kind of never know where they're gonna come from. I remember, uh, Parker kind of saying one time that it's really, it feels really hard right now, but you're gonna build your shop up to a point where people are going to be willing to come Jimmy Lea: to Sarah LaFlamme: you, to come to you. And so that moment when that, that woman said, oh my husband's, he can fix anything, he is a great technician. Sarah LaFlamme: He, he want him to come work for you, you're in town. Yep. And I was like, this is it. Parker said this would happen. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. She said, I, I saw your ad. I think it was on our website or something at Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Jr LaFlamme: At the time. And she's like, Hey, my husband's been doing this for years. What are you looking for? And we pretty much said, Hey, we're looking for a master tech to alleviate JR a little bit. Jr LaFlamme: And Sarah LaFlamme: yeah, Jr LaFlamme: he came on board and he is been with us since. So Sarah LaFlamme: yeah. So that was, yeah. Parker Branch: Yeah. You guys are doing the right things and, and you know, treating people right. Internal customers, external customers doing good work. And that creates attraction to your business. And that's. That's kind of, you know, we talk about that at the institute by, you know, raising everything up and doing such a good job. Parker Branch: Eventually people, they start realizing that good things are happening at La Flas and we want to be there. And that's part of that attraction that, you know, that's a real compliment to, to what you all have done. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Thank you. Jr LaFlamme: Thank you. Yeah. And I will say, like, his wife stopped us recently and she did make comments to me and Sarah saying. Jr LaFlamme: I'm so glad my husband made the move to go to you guys. He's very happy. I haven't seen him this happy in years. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah, Jr LaFlamme: so that's a good compliment all the way around. Sarah LaFlamme: So I make sure to let, Jr LaFlamme: thank you. Sarah LaFlamme: I make sure to let him know when I see his wife. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that is awesome. Sarah LaFlamme: Your wife said you're so happy here. Jimmy Lea: Yes, yes, yes. Let me remind you, Steve. Yeah. And Steve is ZZ top right? He's, Sarah LaFlamme: yeah. No long hair. Jimmy Lea: He is ZZ top. Tyler. Looks like he just stepped off the high school graduation school. Sarah LaFlamme: He Jimmy Lea: kind, but he's not. Jr LaFlamme: Nope. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How did you find Tyler? Sarah LaFlamme: That Tyler was through, um, our Snap-on dealer. Jimmy Lea: The Snap-on dealer. Okay. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And then you, you said you also hired somebody through, was it through Sarah Fraser? Sarah LaFlamme: Yes, we did hire technician through Sarah. And that experience was great through um, AIM and um, that technician in the end didn't work out. We had them on for about five minute, five months. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, which was really disappointing for us 'cause they fit our culture so well. Sarah LaFlamme: And that's so important to us because Absolutely. We're in very tight quarters and we're here so much that it's like. Almost like being at home. So we wanna make sure everyone jives. Uh, so unfortunately that one didn't work out, but, um, we've got, you know, Sarah always on speed dial for all of our needs now. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. I'm glad you clarified that. It was longer than five minutes. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah, sorry. Parker Branch: I think that was, um, I think that was really a good experience too, because, you know, one of the things that we learned, you know, as I was coaching JR and Sarah, we talked a little bit about EOS. No, we didn't wanna make the whole business into an EOS system, but we talked about, you know, finding the right people and having them fit the culture. Parker Branch: And so it was a good try with that individual. And in the end we just, we realized it was okay, but it really wasn't great. And when they let go of, okay, that made room for great to show up. Um, so it was a good lesson. Yeah, Jimmy Lea: absolutely. Jr LaFlamme: Oh, absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Hallelujah. Yeah, we learned that in the leadership intensive classes with the institute, that when you're looking for a unicorn, you've got to look where the unicorns are. Jimmy Lea: You don't go to the middle of the valley, you go where the unicorns are. And, uh, if you've got a shop full of mule deer, that's not unicorns. What, uh, speaking to culture, speaking to, uh, your shop, I have an implementation question. What is, I'm gonna call it the single best. Um, and, and it could be more than one, but what's the single best thing you've implemented from coaching and training with Parker that created that immediate traction in your shop? Sarah LaFlamme: So I would say it was the dvs doing the digital vehicle inspections. That was, um, such a big game changer. We were really hesitant about doing it. Prior to that. We thought, ah, it's gonna take extra time. It's, that's not really billable time. Um, are people gonna think we're just shady salespeople because we're telling 'em what's wrong with their car? Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and then Parker just really, you know, gave us the whole story. Like, you know, it's not just about selling, it's about people seeing what's going on with their, their vehicle. The whole health Yeah. Of their health report or their vehicle. And when he put it like that, I thought, yeah, like if I go to the doctor, I want them to give me the whole health report. Sarah LaFlamme: I don't want them to just give me this one fix. I want everything. You know? Right. So that way people can make informed decisions, which is literally what, like my mantra is now is always we give this so you can make an informed decision. We want everyone to. Make that informed decision. We don't want somebody to pay to replace their transmission when, when their engine's already, we already know their engine's not good. Jr LaFlamme: Or if their frame's about to fall out and say, Hey, well I just did a brake job, but your frame's about to fall out. Hey, here you go. Anyways, Sarah LaFlamme: yeah, we're in the rust belt. So we're, you know, um, frames rusting out is very common. So that was probably the biggest thing was doing, was actually implementing it and, and putting it on every single job and making sure that we, um, are very thorough. Sarah LaFlamme: And that was a lot of training with our technicians to make sure that they were going through and thoroughly and doing this inspection. Um, 'cause you can, you can have 'em just look at it, but if they don't, if they're missing things, you're not giving the customer the full picture for them to make the right decisions. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. So, yeah. And, and working with Parker, we, uh. Came up with like kind of a little game I would say for DVI to make sure all technicians and stuff are doing the DS properly and Sarah LaFlamme: DVI rodeo. Yep. Jr LaFlamme: DVI rodeo, Parker Branch: 300% percent Sarah LaFlamme: and the hundred percent rule. So that was gonna say, yeah, so with that, with that D vs came the 300% rule, which was, you know, 100% of cars get a DVI 100% of cars. Sarah LaFlamme: Um. Parker Branch: Findings, a hundred percent of your findings. Sarah LaFlamme: Findings, right. We're presented, we're quoting 'em all and we're presenting them all. Um, and that kind of, um, at first was really scary for us too because when we first started with Parker, we didn't have a service advisor. It was me. Yep. And I was still wearing all of these hats. Sarah LaFlamme: I was taking my hat on and off all day long. Calls, customers, payroll bills, everything. And so the idea that I would have to try to find time to carve out, carve out time to do all of the quoting for all of these items, I was like, there's just no way. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: And of course Parker, 'cause he is full of good, good information and good ideas that you need a service advisor. Jr LaFlamme: I mean, even getting to the, even to some of the point where Sarah's like, Hey, I can't quote this out. I need help 'cause I got this, these quotes to do. So I had to stop wrenching to get involved with that aspect too. Sarah LaFlamme: Right. Jr LaFlamme: And it was just. Sarah LaFlamme: We were realize, right. We were realizing that we were just, we were spread too thin in both departments, and there was just no way. Sarah LaFlamme: So, I mean, there were times where we weren't able to actually even get estimates together for customers, and we lost out on those jobs because we were that busy. Yeah. So, yeah. So service advisor was the next step after we implemented, you know, dbis with, with the 300% rule, and then having somebody who could actually bring that over the finish line. Sarah LaFlamme: Right. Um, because I unfortunately just couldn't, so, because I just had too many other things that I, I had to get done, so. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Parker Branch: yeah. Yeah. So adding that service advisor was a game changer. Absolutely. Uh, to change your guys' roles and it, and it puts you into another gear. Um Yep. And your, and your revenue and, um, giving you time to work on the business For sure. Jr LaFlamme: Correct. Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. DVI is a drum that's very near and dear to my heart. I, I pounded that drum for four years trying to get shops to implement, take pictures, take pictures, take pictures. It just really educates your customer and educated customer makes better decisions. Sarah LaFlamme: Absolutely. We get that as feedback often from customers, whether it be through a review or just telling us verbally how much they love getting the videos and the photos that we send them. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Of their, of their cars. Jr LaFlamme: A lot of people are visual. You can explain it to you're blue in the face, but a lot of people, if they see it and you explain it to 'em, they're more visual and they're like, okay, I got what you're talking about now and yeah, let's proceed with this, or so on and so forth. Or I'll put it on the back burner for now. Jr LaFlamme: You know? So. Parker Branch: Yeah. And that had a huge impact on driving their average written estimate up. And therefore their average repair order came up substantially from that as well. So we saw some, some great changes there. Jimmy Lea: All right. I have a lot of questions for you about the DVI then, uh, what are you using? Is it integrated with your point of sale? Jimmy Lea: What did you average repair order go from and to? Sarah LaFlamme: Oh. Okay, so tech metric is what we're using. Jimmy Lea: Love Sarah LaFlamme: it. Um, and fully Jimmy Lea: integrated, simple Sarah LaFlamme: using fully integrated Jimmy Lea: pushes right into it. Sarah LaFlamme: Yep. Yep. And we text every single, um, DVI right out to the customer. And, um, so it's seamless. They have the link they can go back to and they can keep they, and they can forward it to other people and review it too, which is nice because sometimes, you know, maybe they wanna send it to dad to review, you know? Sarah LaFlamme: Oh yeah. Maybe they feel uncomfortable making that decision on their own. Um, and our a RO, Ooh, I know I should have that number. And Cecil's somewhere on here. Probably, probably going, she should have these numbers. And Jennifer probably too. Um, um, that's one of the things that I'm working on is, uh, Jimmy Lea: let's, it's not a, it's, we're not gonna hold your feet to the fire. Jimmy Lea: This is a, a scientific wild guesstimate on we were somewhere in the. S range and we went to somewhere in this range. Sarah LaFlamme: Okay. So I would say our, before we were doing the DVI, we were probably in the 300 range. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: And then we've gone to well over 600 for our aros right now. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. Yeah. That's, that's phenomenal. Jimmy Lea: And, and the result of that is better cars on the road. Yes. Your average repair order went up. Wonderful. Yes. As a business we're able to make it. Okay. And we're profitable. Okay, cool. But the more important thing, our clients, our customers are making better decisions about their vehicles. They're safer on the road, which also means your safer on the road, your family is safer on the road. Jimmy Lea: And my family is safer on the road because our clients, our customers are making better decisions. I love that. I, that is wonderful. I'll never stop counting that drum. Alright. And the DVI may be the crown jewel in this. But if you can think of something else, we'll talk about something else. If another shop owner could copy just one thing that you've done this last year, what should it be? Sarah LaFlamme: Uh, so it's funny 'cause we talked about this recently and when it was just JR and I, um, and when you first start your business, um, you relying on friends and family kind of to start you. And so we did a lot of emotional pricing and Cecil talked about it in that webinar we went to. And then I looked at JR. Sarah LaFlamme: And I was like, are we emo doing emotional pricing? And then like the next time one of our family members, it was like not even a family, it was like a friend of a friend of a friend, uh, you know, and I went, you've distant Jimmy Lea: too far. Too far. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. And I'm in there because I'm a bleeding heart and I'm like, I don't know. Sarah LaFlamme: She, I know she doesn't, not a lot of money and, and again, I'm making decisions for her. And, and I said, you know. I think we're making too much emotion, like we're making these emotional pricing. Yeah. You know, pricing and Parker, and we talked to Parker about it when we started with him and he said, yeah, absolutely. Sarah LaFlamme: You need to get this set and this is what it is. And um, and that actually is kind of like, it all kind of went hand in hand with having that service advisor position in, because now I'm a step back from that. I'm not doing the everyday, um, oper like that part of it. So my service advisor's doing that, so I can't get emotionally involved. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, because, and he, and he doesn't care because it's not his family or of a friend. Of a friend. Of a friend, right. He's not gonna be emotionally involved in that. So, um, that has really helped us. So I would say, no, don't do emotional pricing. All you're doing is just discounting and Jr LaFlamme: your, your value. Sarah LaFlamme: Your value. Sarah LaFlamme: And I love helping. I love helping people and we'd like to help people as much as we can. But if you're not in a position where you can help people, and we weren't when we were in that. Position. We weren't in that position to help people. We were barely skimming by and, but we were cutting ourselves short because we just wanna help everybody. Sarah LaFlamme: So, yeah. Um, but so important thing to I think, people to, to learn. Jr LaFlamme: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That is so true. Parker, what about you? What's one of those things that, uh, uh, another shop owner, if they were to copy one of the things that you have done in your shop over the last year, what would you suggest? Parker Branch: Um, you know, the first thing that comes to mind was when you presented that question, even to JR and Sarah as that I was thinking about, you know, when I started Branch Automotive and, you know, the end of 2009 actually started functioning in 2010. Parker Branch: Um, I was a couple years into it, running some fairly decent volume of sales through the shop at $80 an hour. Ooh. And I don't know what my parts margin was because I didn't have a coach, therefore I didn't know. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Parker Branch: So for me, when I first started to try to get some coaching and was introduced to the institute and actually understanding what the best shops in the industry and, and putting these pieces together, that was a game changer for me. Parker Branch: And I think, um, Sarah is very sharp with numbers and paying attention to that. And she was frustrated because she wasn't where she wanted to be, but she also didn't know where she should be. And I think that was part of when we first talked, they, they were like, you know, there's a little bit of are we doing the right things? Parker Branch: Where should we be? What do we need to to change? So, you know, uh, I, I don't want to take a whole bunch of credit 'cause I, I give the credit to Cecil and the institute and the pe, Jennifer Holbert, the people that have coached me. Um, and then I'm sharing my journey with them. Through those experiences. Um, having the coach is, it's the biggest game changer there is. Parker Branch: You don't know what you don't know. Jr LaFlamme: Absolutely. Sarah LaFlamme: I would agree. And if I could just jump on that, one of the first things that when we met with Parker at our first meeting was he kind of said like, what is your goal? Like, what do you wanna, where do you wanna be? So that, you know, 'cause from that he started building us kind of our outline, right? Sarah LaFlamme: Like, think of writing an essay in high school. You kind of start with your outline. And so he kind of start, started helping us build that outline. How can we achieve what we wanted? And for us, all we wanted was work-life balance. Balance. Yep. We don't wanna be wealthy and rich. I mean, it'd be cool if we were, but we wanted to be happy. Sarah LaFlamme: We wanted to be present for our time with our kids, um, and, and be able to leave work behind, but, and still have it, you know, be successful. Um, and we, you know, and be able to travel. We didn't take a vacation for years. Years, Jr LaFlamme: yep. Um. Sarah LaFlamme: You know, and it's, it's hard because it's not just us, it's also our kids. Sarah LaFlamme: So to tell them, oh yeah, we can't take another vacation again, and they're like, well, everyone else is taking a vacation. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Or not, you know, or also not being able kids wake up in the morning not being able to see 'em before school. Sarah LaFlamme: Right. Yeah. Or Jr LaFlamme: seeing them right before they go to bed. Sarah LaFlamme: Right. You Jr LaFlamme: know, I mean, coachings helped out with that tremendously. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. So Parker was able to give us so much data of like where we should be, but in little tiny bites. So it wasn't overwhelming of like, let's start here. Okay, we need to start with let's hire another technician. If maybe we can't get that, maybe we just go to the right service advisor. Maybe that can help. Sarah LaFlamme: And that actually ended up being the, the better. Um. Process for us was to go service advisor, and then we added more tech after tech. Yep. But, um, yeah, to not know, to know I had these numbers, but is that the right number? Should my parts margin be this, should it be that? Should my labor margin be this? I don't know. Sarah LaFlamme: I don't know. You know? So for him to give me, am I spending even down to like the, um, the expenses? Am I spending too much on my accountant? Am I spending too little on advertising? Um, these are Jr LaFlamme: software too much. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. These are things that, I mean, we're still working on these things. Um, and, but it's nice that the institute has gone and done all that work and provided that the, the Parker Branch: benchmarks Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Those references for everyone to, to have. So yeah, it was great. Parker Branch: Yeah. I think you're, you're gonna be super excited as you continue. Um, you know, there, uh. Sarah and JR are moving into a gear performance group. They're in transition now, and they'll have Jennifer Holbert as their coach. And it's, you know, Sarah had some, some fears and worries about how's this gonna be with the reporting and that, and I, and she is a powerhouse with her numbers, and I was like, you and Jennifer are gonna get along. Parker Branch: Like, you're gonna be worried at first, but when you get in there and feel what, you know, what we've done with coaching one-on-one, getting some structure and some ideas and having someone to talk to that's been through the same pain points that you are, have tried this, tried that. Um, when you get in there and have 15 to 20 shop owners surrounding you that also have been on that journey and with Jennifer's expertise and, and, and she's just brilliant. Parker Branch: So you're, you're gonna love that. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. We're really looking forward. Look forward to it. Yeah, we're looking forward to it. Our first in-person meeting is at the end of this month, so in a couple weeks. Um, we're gonna get to meet a whole bunch of other shop owners who are like-minded, and we're really excited about it. Sarah LaFlamme: Yep. You know, we're happy that we at least had Parker for at least over a year though, because before that you kind of just feel like you're out in the middle of the desert by yourself. You know, we felt like we were drowning. And then when we had Parker, we at least had somebody to bounce ideas off of. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and talk about the, the, the losses and the wins, you know what I mean? There was one month we had our best month ever and the very first thing Parker said when he got on the call was, congratulations on your best month ever. And we were like, we go. Oh, was it? We were so, we were, we were so busy, like trying to, we Jr LaFlamme: didn't even know. Sarah LaFlamme: We didn't know we had, so we're trying, we're, you know, we were just trying to implement so many things, right? Get our SOPs in place. Another thing that Parker told us to get rolling on, you know, so everyone knows what we're expecting of them. Um, you know, we were trying to get all these things that we weren't even paying attention to that, to the full, to how we were, you know, how I was doing on that. Sarah LaFlamme: So, um, yeah. But with the service advisor, now I can actually, I'm having so much more time to look at all those numbers and, and, and, and make sure that we're actually on the same path that we wanted to be on. Parker Branch: Yeah. And Jimmy, they were. They were open-minded because, you know, we, it's not always, we knew, hey, it would be ideal if we could get a technician to replace JR in the shop to free him up. Parker Branch: And because the business is young and we still don't have an advisor or, you know, we're trying to add to the team to get our structure to free. You know, the owners up a little bit. Um, you know, we went after technician first. We had a, some, some trials and tribulations there. And we, we had talked about it like, hey, you know, there were times I had to go back in the shop and stay there and be the guy in the shop. Parker Branch: So we switched gears a little bit and we said, Hey, let's see if we can, you know, find that service advisor position. And they did. And, and that made another positive change, um, helped create that vacuum to then attract this technician with a big, fancy beard. And here we go. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. ZZ top, Steve. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah, he's the best. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Parker, I think you're hitting it right on the head. And, and, okay. Now that it's in the room, the nail is up. I've gotta hit it with a hammer. Jr we kept talking about you being this bottleneck by doing the, the, you were the hands-on the heavy duty work. Jr LaFlamme: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Um. What did it feel like for you to hear that? Jimmy Lea: Okay. We need JR to transition from being a technician to being an owner. Jr LaFlamme: So part of it is when I'm doing the job, you know, it's done your way, so on and so forth. But the Institute and Parker, they've implement the SOPs, getting all that into place, which has helped out a lot. So putting those into place with technicians and guiding the technicians the right way, um, has also helped alleviate that off of me where I could go training these guys and also bringing on Steve and so and so forth, they, it's good to see now I don't have to get so much involved with the technician side. Jr LaFlamme: Now I have guys out here that I have trust in, um, that can keep the wheels turning and I. Don't have to be in every step. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. It feels like he can almost nurture the technicians a little bit more into, right into like how we do it, the la flam way. Right. How we, how we, what we expect, which is probably pretty similar to most shops, but, um, but yeah, so that's been, um, a big thing. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. And, and there's a big controversy in, in the social media world right now that says if your coaching company only tells you that you have to work on your business, not in it, they are not a good coaching company and that's not the story. Eventually we want to work you to that position where you can work on it. Jr LaFlamme: Correct. Jimmy Lea: And, and here's my question to you, Jr. How long did it take? How long was that transition period? Because you can't do it day one. Jr LaFlamme: No. Jimmy Lea: I mean, how long did it take you to make that? And you're probably still not fully transitioned. Jr LaFlamme: That's correct. And we're still working on it to get me to that point because I need to spend more time on the business instead of. Jr LaFlamme: In the business, so, um, we'll say ever for a while. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Yeah. So we've been open, yeah. Just over four years we've been open and I would say, uh, just up until the last, like couple of months. Jr LaFlamme: Months Yep. Sarah LaFlamme: Is when he's finally like his numbers. So I, when I run my report, I'm, you know, I'm starting to really see that his numbers for billables is really dwindling. Sarah LaFlamme: And at first I kind of razed him and I was like, Hey, your billable aren't very good. Um, but they're not supposed to be because we're supposed Yeah. The technicians are supposed to be doing this stuff. So yeah, now he has more time to train them and work with them on Jr LaFlamme: that, and also do business stuff that I need to do, um, instead of doing it say after hours or in between things here and there. Jr LaFlamme: So that has helped out tremendously. Parker Branch: Oh, JR was feeling pretty overwhelmed at times. Jr LaFlamme: Yep. Parker Branch: That he was, you know, really carrying the load in the shop. So, yeah. Jr LaFlamme: And it's very tough when, you know, you have all this work that has to get out of your. Because it's promised to customers and you see 'em out there and you're like, all right, hey, I got a timing belt to do. Jr LaFlamme: Hey, I got an r and r transmission out there still to do. In between fitting and oil changes and breaks. Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: He, there was many times where he said to me, I feel so much stress because everyone's, everyone's paychecks and everyone's livelihood is, is relying on me and my shoulders because, you know what I mean? Sarah LaFlamme: So it was, and that's a, you know, a feeling that he doesn't say that anymore because we've got these technicians that are Steve who's got, he's excellent, knows what he's doing. We've got Tyler who's working his way up, he's learning a lot. He is absorbing like a sponge. Sponge. Yeah. Which is excellent. Um, and, but JR now has the time to put into Tyler and then, and then eventually into our next technician too. Sarah LaFlamme: So, Parker Branch: yeah. And you have, you have Chris carrying his role and his position. That also is, you know, kind of in the background, but pretty important, keeping the state inspection program running and helping cover some of the odds and ends. So definitely some supplemental, you know, employee. Helping carry the load and yeah, they've done a great job of, of knowing that. Parker Branch: And, and when the business is young, you may still be in and out of the shop some, but you're, you've seen now the difference that can happen with adding the key areas of staff. You've seen what it's like to have that position maybe come and go and what the impact on the business was. Now understand the importance a little differently than you did before. Jr LaFlamme: Correct. And like you were just saying, having Chris here also, also, um, alleviates me a little bit. 'cause if I'm tied up doing something, everybody. Under like technician, stuff like that. Notice, see Chris if Jr. Right. Or Sarah's busy. Sarah LaFlamme: I will. Yeah. So that's advice I would give other shop owners too. Sarah LaFlamme: Eventually when you get to a point where you're wearing too many hats, you, you need to think about getting a, a jack of all trades kind of guy. The guy who can be in the background, which is our, our guy Chris. He has trained in every department and done everything in the shop except for my stuff, right? Sarah LaFlamme: Like accounting, he's done, he's cross-trained in all of it so he can back us up. And that's what we worked really hard for the last year was to try to get him into that position, um, get him trained up and everything too, so that way we can leave and go meet other shop owners in our gear performance group. Sarah LaFlamme: Otherwise we wouldn't be able to do that. Jr LaFlamme: Correct. And they each, like, having somebody there that knows, um, the business, the way, the direction, how things are operational, having people go to somebody else when you're not around is a bonus. Because you don't have the doubt in your mind saying, Hey, is this getting done? Jr LaFlamme: Well, I know they're gonna go see this individual. Um, they know how we do things. They're the go-to if we're not here. So Jimmy Lea: that is awesome. That is awesome. It, it sounds like not only have you been able to free up Jr's time to work on the business, but bringing in Chris also allowed you, Sarah to work on the business as well. Sarah LaFlamme: For sure. Um, you know, the service advisor role and having Chris as our shop, like I said, Jack of all trades, um, has really helped because I have been able to start delegating, which is a big thing. Um, we had to, you know, that's one of the hard things is being a business owner when you start the business is you feel like you don't wanna let go of anything. Sarah LaFlamme: And that's something that we've been working really hard to actually pry that responsibility off of us and delegate it to someone. And maybe they don't do it exactly how you would do it, but you work with them to try to get them up to that level, you know what I mean? And so it's been, it's been hard, but yeah, it's. Sarah LaFlamme: Chris has def definitely done that. And then even JR being, um, being less of a bottleneck, right. And being alleviated in the shop has made it so I can actually hand him back some of these duties that I've been doing in addition to all my very, like administrative and operational things like Jr LaFlamme: marketing, Sarah LaFlamme: you know what I mean? Sarah LaFlamme: Like, because I'm doing all the marketing and stuff too. And then, but you know, so now I can hand back some of the, um, management, hr, like a little bit some of these things back to JR as he has more time now, um, which makes it so I can spend more time moving the forward, the business forward, which has been great. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that, that is really good. That is really good. All right. Now, now we're to a point, uh, this is the section of the interview we're gonna call. The worst or the most, the worst or most embarrassing implementations that you've done in the shop where you thought, well, that didn't quite land the way I imagined. Jimmy Lea: I thought that might've gone a little bit different. What has been the most embarrassing rollout you attempted that didn't quite land right? I'm not Jr LaFlamme: really sure. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, geez, that's hard. I would say the DVI is actually, um, so we were lucky with Steve when he came on more recently that he worked for a place that already did that. Sarah LaFlamme: But before that, that the text we had did not. And so, um, rolling out the DVI was, you know, a yeah, a they, they gave me, they gave us some pushback, right? Yeah. Like, you know, it's gonna take time and, and you know, and then, um, and then seeing the quality of them coming back in, that was where we were like, oh, that did not land. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Or the consistency, like 1D VI would have all these photos, the next one would be missing half of them. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Two photos, right? Yeah. So, I mean, and that's something we continue to work on and, you know, each technician almost brings their own. Um, style, don't style to it. Right. Which is great because then we can use that as an example. Sarah LaFlamme: We see something on A DVI that we really like that Steve did or Tyler did, and we're like, wow, we want everyone to do it this way 'cause this is great for the customer to see and this is easier for them to understand. So, um, but yeah, for sure D vs. Were they were a hard rollout. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. We just do a dbi. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's, it's, a lot of people think it goes that way, but it does and it takes a lot of handholding to implement a, a successful digital vehicle inspection program. It certainly does. Alright, so, uh, most and worst have, tell me about a time that you solved a problem and in doing so, created a new problem. Sarah LaFlamme: I've got one example. When we hired our service advisor, our very first service advisor, um. Yeah, that was to solve a problem. But it created a big problem, a bigger problem for me because then I had to actually take the time to like be patient and train them. And Parker was all the time, like, Sarah, you gotta sit next to them. Sarah LaFlamme: You gotta sit next to 'em. Yep. You gotta go like baby, step them through. Um, and so that ended up becoming like a bigger problem. I didn't At at, right? Yeah. At the time I didn't think it was gonna be, I was like, this is a great solution. Here you go. Just put 'em in the seat. And then Parker's like, no, you can't just do that. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. And one thing, one thing I add to that is for a service advisor, one thing I would definitely suggest to people is make sure you put your time into 'em and make sure they have your procedures and they know your procedures and processes. So this way here, they're not on the front lines going, I don't know, I'm not really sure what to do. Jr LaFlamme: Right. Jr LaFlamme: You know, so make sure you put your time into it with that. And Parker was. Great with that, helping us in that aspect as well. So Parker Branch: yeah, that, that was a great learning experience. You know, that was, you don't know what you don't know until you get there. And, and the individual that, you know, we got hired and, uh, I, I remember getting on a call and Sarah was like, yeah, you know, they've been here two days and I turned them loose and it's terrible. Parker Branch: Wait a minute. Sarah LaFlamme: In my defense, we just have such tight quarters, um, you know, oh, Parker Branch: it was a space, Sarah LaFlamme: there wasn't even room for me next to stand next to them. So it was very, it was hard. So, yeah, so Parker Branch: we reeled it in, we talked about it, about how to, you know, I, I told them in, in my shop, even some of the higher level. People that we've brought in as a, in a mature, you know, business, 10 plus years, we still have, our manager was one of our best advisors and he is joined at the hip with that individual for, if it's a very well experienced advisor, probably still a couple weeks, and if it's not probably a month, and, uh, they reeled it in and, and when they made their changes to the current advisor, um, they did a great job of really setting those expectations. Parker Branch: And it's just like, you know, we were talking about, you were sharing about the DVI and some of the difficulties there, and I, and I'm thinking there's a couple SOPs, um, setting the expectations with the tax of, hey, this is how many pictures we want and why and, and the good and the bad. So, but they've done a great job of that. Jr LaFlamme: Thank you. Sarah LaFlamme: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: So as you're looking for advisors and you are looking for that advisor. Fit Is there a difference between a, um, a transactional service advisor versus a relationship service advisor? Jr LaFlamme: Absolutely. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah, definitely. And um, like I kind of touched upon before, for us, one of our core values is community. Sarah LaFlamme: Like that feeling of community and that everyone feels really welcome and that, um, because that's how I wanna feel when I go places and I wanna feel treated like, I want them to say, Hey, Sarah, and know my name, and remember my car, and, and things like that. I can't expect, I know every service advisor to remember every single person's exact, you know, thing. Sarah LaFlamme: But, um, in the years that I was in the, at the front, that was, that was me. I was doing that. I was very relationship. We were building relationships and those people were our biggest supporters sending in new customers to us. Like all like tenfold. Like one person, one happy customer is sending like 10 people, like their whole family. Sarah LaFlamme: Um, and so, you know, that was really important to us is to make sure that people feel that there's that relationship and that we're not just so a one-off, oh, we fix your car, take our, take your money, and we never talk to you again. You know? I mean, like I said, we are in this community. We live in this community. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. So the chances that we're going to see them outside of this building is very good. I mean, I can't go to the local grocery store on the weekend without running into my customers. Yeah. So, um, and ask, and then I ask 'em, how's your car running? And things like that. So, um, whereas transactional. That, Hey, just, you know, like JR called it, like being at the, like being at the deli next. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: Next, take a number next. And, and we're just not like that. So, um, we've worked really hard with our current, um, service advisor to make sure that he's not like that. Uh, he came from a shop that was a little bit more transactional where he was working and that maybe works for them, but it's not how it works for us in our small town, Jr LaFlamme: so. Jr LaFlamme: Correct. And one thing I'll say is a lot of our customers, they really enjoy that. Where they, we see 'em walking in the door, we're like, Hey Joe, how you doing? And they're like, Hey, JR. Sarah, hey, I'm back with for my oil change or something. And they love the fact of the interaction like that. They, it's, it goes a long way. Jr LaFlamme: And I mean the, the feedback even we hear from that. A lot of customers like that feel, they don't, they don't wanna just feel like they're. Punching a ticket or getting a, a deli ticket or something. Right. You know? Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. Jr LaFlamme: They like the personal, Sarah LaFlamme: they want it to be fixed properly. Jr LaFlamme: Correct. Sarah LaFlamme: For a good price and they want a good relationship. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. We're gonna serve it all up together. Jimmy Lea: That is, that is so true. It has to all go together. The relationship, the quality. Uh, what did you learn about your own leadership style as you are Hmm. Um, training these service advisors? Finding the misalignments, saying thank you. No, thank you. What did you learn about your own leadership style? Jr LaFlamme: Well, I mean, for myself, I still, we're still working on it day to day. Um, as far as that goes, it's like everybody can't be you. You can't expect everybody to do it your way or say things exactly how you do it. So, as far as leadership role goes and is pretty much setting expectations of saying. You don't need to necessarily bring it forward this way, but this is the way kind of, um, we would like you to have it go or direction. Jr LaFlamme: We would like you to have it. And letting go of that aspect. Sarah LaFlamme: I have sung the song from Frozen to my husband many times. Let It Go. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I, he has come into my office many times, like very frustrated about something and I'm like, let it go. Let it go. There's some things that are just not worth, and, you know, I think Parker can attest to this, that you gotta pick and choose your battles. Sarah LaFlamme: You know, for me as the person training on the service advisor side, um, I, my managerial style has changed from being very, I used to be a little bit more uptight. Um, and I've just become a little bit more mellow because I'm realizing like. I need this person. They need the job, but I also need them. And I, it needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship. Sarah LaFlamme: And, um, they, they're not, I'm not gonna get that from them. If I am, if I'm harping on them about stuff and da da, Jr LaFlamme: they're coming off like Sarah LaFlamme: a fair Jr LaFlamme: or something. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. I, you know, and I'm a very demo, I personally am a very democratic person, right. We have team meetings all the time, and I'm like, Hey, we're thinking about doing this. Sarah LaFlamme: What does everyone think? Like I ask everybody's opinion, you know, and I take it under advisement, you know, because I wanna see, you know, what do they, what do they, I want them to feel like they're included in this because we really are like a big team. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. And the biggest thing, communication. Parker Branch: You guys have done a good job of letting go of the vine a little bit where you needed to. Parker Branch: And we definitely work through some of the pers you know, there's gonna be different people in that you're gonna, you know, maybe bring into the business and you might outgrow them. Things will change. You do what you need to, to survive and get by and try to, you know, create ex excellence in those positions. Parker Branch: Um, I, I know that when you guys were talking about that, I'm thinking leadership intensive will be so good for you guys. I already, Sarah LaFlamme: I know Parker Branch: I already, Sarah LaFlamme: I've already got that. Is it coming up already? Parker Branch: There's one coming up in March in Ogden. Jimmy Lea: Oh, geez. Yep, yep. And in fact, there's a holiday bundle right now you can take advantage of, will get you three intensivess, which is normally like 6,000, uh, $6,700 for $5,000. Jimmy Lea: You get a three day service advisor training, a leadership intensive and a financial intensive or, um, um, the marketing intensive. So all of that bundled together $5,000. Sarah LaFlamme: Wow, that's a great, that is a great deal right Jr LaFlamme: there. Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It really is, really is. Now, as we kinda land this plane here, I've got a few questions I wanna ask. Jimmy Lea: Uh, all of you and, uh, Parker, you get to answer the last one. These are jr. This is to you and Sarah, this is to you. If coaching ended tomorrow, what are some of those non-negotiables that you would keep forever, always implemented Jr. You first, Jr LaFlamme: I would say the three Cs. Um, that would be one to stick with. Jr LaFlamme: Um, Sarah LaFlamme: yeah, Jimmy Lea: Sarah, Sarah LaFlamme: that was, that was definitely a big thing, is making sure that people know, you know, what's causing the problem, what's the act, you know, what are we gonna do to fix it and all that. So that's definitely something. Um, I think the 300% rule for me is something that. You know, we will never let go of, um, there's, there's no reason to at this point. Sarah LaFlamme: We've already implemented it. Why would we go backwards? Correct. You know, um, everyone knows what we expect of them. We've had many meetings about it and said, that's a reminder. 300% rule reminder, 300% rule. And then we're, and then we, you know, like we're school made them, you know, each of them answer what the 300% break, what it breaks down to. Sarah LaFlamme: So Jimmy Lea: I love it. I Sarah LaFlamme: love it. They're on the same page. Jr LaFlamme: ABIs Sarah LaFlamme: be Jimmy Lea: another, they're Sarah. What is something you wish someone had told you in year three of your business that coaching forced you to learn to do? Sarah LaFlamme: Oh, geez. Um, when we were in, I would say when we were in year three, we thought that the, you, you. To be a business owner, you have to be working in your business, right? Sarah LaFlamme: Like in it, on the front lines and all that. And that's been something that is not the case. You know? Um, I wish we kind of, and even if somebody told us in year three would we have, would we have, um, drank the Kool-Aid on that? I don't know right away, you know, sometimes it takes a little bit of time for you to get used to it, but we really, you can't be, you can't be working in your business a hundred percent of the time and also working on your business. Sarah LaFlamme: And that is something that has become so apparent to us in the last year that you, you just can't do it all. And so you have to get the right people into those positions so you can do those things. So you can work on the business. And sometimes we still work in the business JR was just wrenching on a car this morning. Parker Branch: Yep. Sarah LaFlamme: You know, I'm answering phone calls sometimes too. Take making appointments and things like that. Backing up our service advisor. 'cause that's what we, that's what you do. You don't leave it behind. And I love that. I actually love working with the customers. So anytime that our service advisor is out, I don't mind running in there taking, I've taken over but. Jimmy Lea: I totally agree. And you, you step in, you do what you gotta do. The business still has to run, we still have to keep the lights on, the doors open. And so you do what you gotta do to, to make that happen. So Jr Yeah, if you have to pick up a wrench, Sarah, if you've gotta pick up the phone, Parker, if you gotta pick up the phone, you do what you gotta do to keep the business rolling. Jr LaFlamme: Exactly. Jimmy Lea: All right. To to JR. And, and Sarah and then, uh, Parker, you can answer this after as well. What would you say to a shop owner who's on the fence because, oh, we're just too busy or, uh, we can't afford coaching or we can't implement it right now. What advice would you give to somebody, uh, a shop owner who said, who's sitting on the fence? Sarah LaFlamme: We literally said every single one of those things to ourselves, we had this conversation and we're really lucky that there's two of us. We get to bounce off these ideas with each other. Um, but we literally thought the same thing. I'm, we're too busy. How am I gonna find time to, to, you know, meet with my coach in a month? Sarah LaFlamme: I'm too busy. Yeah. Jr LaFlamme: How are you gonna afford it? Sarah LaFlamme: How are we gonna afford it? And all that. And you know what? You just do it. You figure it out. You figure out a way to make it happen. I started looking at the numbers thinking, well, if we just do one more, you know, four wheel brake job, we can, we can pay for this for the month. Sarah LaFlamme: You know what I mean? Like, if that means the jar has to get out there and do one extra one even on a, on a Saturday, then we're gonna do it. You know? And um, so I, I think it was one of the best decisions. I think it was, um, it was a hard sell, uh, for JR. At first. I was really like an early, yes, let's do this. Sarah LaFlamme: And he was kind of a little bit more hesitant and Jr LaFlamme: yeah. And, Sarah LaFlamme: and a couple months ago, Jr LaFlamme: and I'll be the first one to sit here, admit it, and reached shop out there. That is in doubt. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah, Jr LaFlamme: I would a hundred percent do it all over Sarah LaFlamme: couple months ago he Jr LaFlamme: said and do it again. Sarah LaFlamme: Yeah. A couple months ago he came to me and said, oh, I'm, maybe I should. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. This is a good idea. This was a great idea. I'm glad we did it. Um, yeah. It it puts you, yeah. It, it we're over time and it, it helps you out. Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: We're just so much happier now. Jr LaFlamme: Yeah. Sarah LaFlamme: We feel so much more calm and happier than we were when Parker first met us. We were frazzled. Jr LaFlamme: I don't have bags down to here anymore. Jimmy Lea: Well, and Dylan, Dylan agrees with you. He says you can't afford not to have coaching, Jr LaFlamme: right? That's correct. Jimmy Lea: It's something you just have to have Parker to you. What do you say to the shop owner, the coach or the shop owner that's sitting on the fence? Parker Branch: Um, I mean, it changed my life. Like, you know, I, I was in a two bay shop doing 800,000, two years in a row. Parker Branch: Charging 80 bucks an hour. I probably should have done almost 2 million those two years. Um, but you know, the, the path, the people I've met through the industry, through the institute and going to the summits and different trade events is it's broadened my network. It's, I've learned so much from the institute and the people they brought me together with that has literally transformed my business and my earning. Parker Branch: And I mean, if, if you're on the fence, I get it. I, I was there too. I was terrified to spend the money, just like JR and Sarah were saying. One of the things about the institute give it a try. What do you have to lose a month or two? That's one of the things that like, I, I am so proud of Cecil and Kent and Wayne and the institute over that whole strategy of we're not asking you to come here and sign away. Parker Branch: Give us your mortgage off your house and you're stuck here for five years. Come in and give it a try. If it's not working for you, you know, here we go. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, if it's not working, you can bounce. Ours is a month to month agreement. Uh, jr. Sarah, thank you so very much for joining us, having the conversation. Jimmy Lea: Thank you for your success. Thank you for keeping going and keeping at the grindstone Parker, thank you for being their coach and not letting them have excuses that were acceptable. There's no excuses here. It's get the job done. So to both of you, to all of you, thank you very much for joining me today. Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much. Jr LaFlamme: Thank you. Thank you very much for having, Parker Branch: yeah, thanks everybody. Jimmy Lea: Hey, and if you're listening to this, and this is some information that has resonated with you and with your shop, you figure, oh, I'm in the same position. I've got the same thing happening at my shop. We would love to have a conversation with you. Jimmy Lea: And that's what it starts with is a conversation. So right as we finish, you're gonna see a QR code pop up. We're here to help you build a better business, which the result is a better life for you. And the net result for us is the institute is a better industry. So let's lock arms together. Let's lock arms together and help improve your shop, your business, and your life. Jimmy Lea: My name is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and this is the Leading Edge podcast. Talk to you soon. Thank you.  Jr LaFlamme: Thank you.

185 -Ask Me Anything Webinar The Lie We Tell Ourselves “I’ll Start When I’m Ready” January 07, 2026 - 00:57:29   Show Summary: Wayne Marshall and Cecil Bullard explain why waiting to feel ready keeps shop owners stuck and why coaching should be viewed as an investment with real returns. They share how coaching can quickly reduce stress, improve cash flow, and create more time and quality of life. They also cover technician pay plans that balance a steady base with incentives for quality, training, and production. The episode closes with what it takes to scale into multiple locations through strong processes, training, and teams, plus the reminder that being busy does not always mean being profitable.   Host(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Expenses versus investments and focusing on return [00:01:03] – Why waiting until ready delays real business growth [00:02:23] – Common excuses shop owners use to avoid coaching [00:03:23] – Coaching quickly reduces stress and improves cash flow [00:05:04] – Technician pay plans built on stability and performance [00:06:37] – Incentives tied to quality training and production [00:10:43] – Preparing systems and people for multiple shop growth [00:15:29] – Why two shops are harder than one [00:24:50] – Busy shops are not always profitable shops [00:48:30] – Training and mentoring build long term success  In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7Cr4H7HOVlI Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Wayne Marshall: Welcome to our session today on Ask V Anything. I'm Wayne Marshall here along with Cecil Bullard. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about expense versus investment. As we all know, there's many things that we do that we invest in, or we have different expenses, but in anything you do, you also wanna be looking at what you're getting for that return on investment and how it works. Wayne Marshall: Expenses. They're a one time thing. You spend your money, you get it, you get the product, you get the service, and then there's other things you do that have a long-term return on that, and it's an investment that can build and continue to help your business as you move forward. So we're excited to get some of your questions. Wayne Marshall: As we stated at the beginning, it's ask me Anything. Please submit those things. We would love to have this conversation, help share the knowledge we have. Cecil, you wanna share anything off the top? Cecil Bullard: I think what we're, at least, what we're starting with here is this this comment that we get a lot of times from shop owners that want to improve their businesses that. Cecil Bullard: May maybe struggling, and I know it's difficult to look at your business and go, man, I'm, I don't have any money. Three, three types of shop owners that we in general come to coaching. We have the people that are they were in a different industry and they're used to coaching. They understand coaching, they know the value of coaching, and they come in and they say, we just need a coach. Cecil Bullard: And so what we've done is we've researched the. The automotive industry, and we believe that you guys are the top of the list. So we would like coaching. Those are the easiest people to sell. And frankly, they're also the easiest ones to probably work with in many cases. Because they're just, they're used to having someone there to help them. Cecil Bullard: Know what they don't know. We also get the largest group is probably shop owners who've been in business for some period of time who have struggled. This idea that I wake up every morning and I say to myself, oh my gosh, I hope that we have enough cars and I hope we have enough work. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I hope that, at the end of the year when I actually have to file my taxes, I'm in the. Black instead of the red. And that's probably the largest portion. And from that group, we get this, we often get this idea that I can't afford coaching or I can't, yeah. I, or I think I heard it in the last couple of weeks. Cecil Bullard: I heard, I think I've heard it two or three times. I wanna hire a manager first before I get into coaching. Or I want to hire a service advisor first, or I want to whatever, meet this Wayne Marshall: sure Cecil Bullard: thing. And what I tell people, to me, that's one of the most frustrating comments because those people never get coaching. Wayne Marshall: Okay. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: They just don't. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And it's another excuse not to get serious about your business and get your business. And I also think that a lot of people out there think, oh my gosh, there's so much. It's gonna take so much time, so much energy, and so much effort. I will tell you that for most of the people that we have coached. Cecil Bullard: That within a few sessions we've got it where it's oh, the pressure's off. There's more money in the bank. Now. There are, the job seems to be getting easier for me. And so they're not putting in the kind of time, energy, and effort that they have blown this out to be Wayne Marshall: correct. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And then why would I do coaching? What's the point? The point is I don't know what, I don't know. Yep. So I have I was telling Wayne here earlier my, I worked for my dad. He had a shop and he would not support financially classes, coaching anything. He just thought we'll figure it out. Cecil Bullard: And when I was started early in my service advisor career and my manager career, part of this. I went and found coaches and paid for 'em myself. And those thousands of dollars that I spent at the time have literally turned into millions of dollars Wayne Marshall: In Cecil Bullard: my increased Wayne Marshall: revenue And profitability. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Over my life. Sure. And opportunity. And I think it also has increased lifespan. Yeah, because Wayne Marshall: yes, Cecil Bullard: you know when you're worried about paying the bills or you're, I've just gotta stay late and I know my wife wants me home and I'd like to go to my son's ball game, but I gotta get this car fixed 'cause I gotta pay the bills. Cecil Bullard: That's the stress. All of that, I think leads to early, early death, or if not death at least. So much time and energy is spent on that frustration that could be spent in other places in your life. Wayne Marshall: So I see we got a question that's been submitted from Yvette. Thank you. I know we've talked about some of this. Wayne Marshall: I know you're gonna have a little more insight than I, but one of the things that I would ask that you. Expand on. I guess when it comes to guaranteed pay, it really comes down to what kind of a tech is it? A c tech we know is not gonna be as efficient as a B or an A. So when you talk about guarantee, it could depend on what level of attack and his skills. Wayne Marshall: And the abilities. So expand a little bit on that, if you would. Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yvette, thanks for the question. Yes. There are multiple different ways that. People have been paid in the automotive industry. Right now, the two main ways are flat rate, meaning, I do an hour's worth of work. I get an hour's worth of pay, right? Cecil Bullard: And then there's Wayne Marshall: flag, Cecil Bullard: Flag. No, that's flag. That would be flag. Yeah, that's right. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: No piece work. Peace. And then there's salary or or hourly, meaning, I'm here for an hour, I get paid x, right? Or for the week, I'm here for the week and I get paid X for the week. Cecil Bullard: I don't believe that either one are the best. Frankly. I think flat rate puts the risk Wayne Marshall: she's asking specifically an yes. Cecil Bullard: It's got an, yeah. Cecil Bullard: And an atex. I would still build the same kind of play, pay plan for Nat Tech that I would for a ctec. It would just have different numbers in it. We want to take about 60% of the pay. Cecil Bullard: What we need to understand is what can I afford to pay that tech? And if you've done coaching and classes and sat through financial stuff, you know that I can afford to pay 20% of sales. To my technicians or I can for afford to pay about 36 to 38% of my labor, effective labor rate to my tech technician. Cecil Bullard: Correct. Okay. And so we, once we know that I have an effective labor rate of. $150 an hour and I can afford to pay, let's say 40%. So that gives me $60 an hour to pay that technician. And that's gotta include the FICA and the feta and the workers' comp and all that stuff. Yeah. Fully Wayne Marshall: loaded. Yep. Cecil Bullard: And so what I would say is you go to Maslow, ma Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and you say people need to understand that. Cecil Bullard: That their base needs are met. So I can't have someone working for me that worries about whether or not they can pay rent or there's food in their refrigerator, right? So I want to take about 60 to 70% of their pay, and I want to pay for that position, and I wanna pay that to them, either hourly or salary. Cecil Bullard: This you get 60%. Then I want to take the other 40% and I want to pay it more in a flat rate kind of way. Meaning as you perform, as you do the things that I want you to do, you're gonna get this extra 40%. So for instance, let's say that I had a total of $1,800 after I took out Fcan Food and Workers' Comp, that I could pay somebody per week. Cecil Bullard: I would probably take somewhere around 1200 of that and create a base. Either an hourly or a salaried base. And then I would take the other 600 and I would say, what do I want from that? A tech? Heck, I want quality of work. It's hard. To define that and you need to have things that you can really define. Cecil Bullard: So I have to define quality of work, right? And for me, quality of work is no comebacks or a few and I don't believe in no comebacks 'cause it's not possible to be perfect. But if my tech does less than 1% warranty in a defined time period, then I'm gonna pay them per hour. They produce two bucks an hour extra. Cecil Bullard: Extra. And then I also want. Education. 'cause I think that people that are constantly educating themselves are more forward focused. They're more they're more thoughtful. They're learning, they're growing. I need people like that because the world changes and the industry changes. Cecil Bullard: And we usually put some form of eight hours in a quarter. 12 hours in a quarter as a training thing. Then they could get another $2 an hour for the hours they produce. And then I also need production. So if I have a tech in a bay that bay can produce 50,000 a month and probably should. Cecil Bullard: And if I have a tech producing 20,000 outta that bay, then I have a tech that's, 40% productive, which is costing me a lot of money if I'm paying them any kind of base salary. And it's costing me money because that bay is not doing work that brings money in Wayne Marshall: need throughput. Cecil Bullard: So I want production and I usually start my bonuses around 35 hours in a week because we're using a labor matrix to 20 to 30% on top of the hours. Cecil Bullard: To pay for the paperwork and the moving cars and the test drives and things like that. And so what I believe is that if I have a technician in my shop and we have work for them, that, and I'm using a 25% labor matrix on the labor that I can have a tech that can do 10 hours a. Okay. Cecil Bullard: And of actual work that they can actually sell and bill Wayne Marshall: hours. Cecil Bullard: I was, I find it really funny 'cause you talk to techs and I love the texts. You put a bunch of techs in a room and you go, okay. How many of you have beat book time routinely, right? Oh, every, all, every hand. I'm the fastest guy in the world. Cecil Bullard: And yet we know from the numbers, from the real numbers, from the hundreds of shops that we work with thousands. We've worked with that. The techs are usually 70, 80, 90% productive unless you're really working on your systems, processes, et cetera. And I love the fact that the techs are like, I can, I'm very productive, but ultimately. Cecil Bullard: Unless we really do some energy and effort into managing that they're just not. Yeah. And and so 35 hours is usually where I start my small bonus for what you produce, and then 40 and 45. Because when you get over 40, then there's more profit in the labor. Wayne Marshall: Correct. Cecil Bullard: So I can pay the technician more as they're doing 40, 42, 45 hours. Cecil Bullard: And so they can earn more, the shop can earn more. And the customer's still very happy and satisfied. Wayne Marshall: Thank you Taylor. I see we got another question that's come in. What are the biggest problems with owners taking the leap into multis shop ownership Co. What can we do to be better prepared? Wayne Marshall: I know the standard answer is can you leave your shop for X amount of time and run it the same as if you're there? Is the standard answer I hear. What are more specific issues you guys have seen? I'll start this one. As you look at what it takes, it starts with having good processes and good procedures. Wayne Marshall: And if you've got everything well, organized so that when you get to a second, third, or a multis shop location, it's easy to take what you're doing at the first shop, apply it to the second, make sure you have the systems processes in place so that. Everybody knows and understands, and if you got the good things there that people can see and understand of what to execute and what the bar of expectation is, it, it makes everything else go very simple and very easy. Wayne Marshall: And we all know, and I always use, when I talk to someone about this and we start talking about what's next, I start off with the very simple thing. We know that nothing happens in a shop until that phone rings. Or someone drives into the lot and you have an appointment, and the first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna talk to 'em, ask 'em what the problem is, and you're gonna start the inspection process. Wayne Marshall: And if you've got something that's well done and well organized that. Between your service writer knows what questions to ask, that gives the right information to the tech so the tech can do the right diagnostic that needs to be done to give the right suggestions. That comes back to the service writer who then knows how to put together a good estimate and how to then present that estimate to the customer that at the end of the day. Wayne Marshall: Gives conversion into an accepted work and all, and you always find delayed maintenance or other things that can turns into additional work. If we can get those things done, that everything starts well and smooth and you've got a good model in shop one, it makes it real easy to go to shop two, shop three and beyond now. Wayne Marshall: It also gets very important, do we got the right people in the right place on the bus? Everybody's heard about the different scenarios of, and that's where you gotta sit here and start asking the question that they understand what's being asked of them and how to execute and execute at a high level with consistency. Wayne Marshall: But that all comes back to training and coming up with all the right things. When I talk about. People who are go going in this direction and they're adding people and they're trying to make sure everything's well, I says, it's really a pretty simple thing. There's only three things that can happen when you're managing people and as you're going through the process. Wayne Marshall: If something goes wrong, first thing, do we have the right processes and procedures in place? And if we say, oh, we don't, we missed this, so let's update, fine, tune, fix, and then retrain. But if you answer the first question that, no, we had all the right things. Then the second question is. Do we have the right training? Wayne Marshall: Do everybody understand what needs to be done? Oh, we did it. Tom didn't know enough. We need to refresh 'em. We need to go back through it. But if you say yes again, no. We had the right procedure. We did all the right training. The only thing you have left is the person. Do we have the right person in the right position? Wayne Marshall: And sometimes as hard as it is, as you start to scale, you start to say, maybe I don't have the right person that can take us to the next level. So the best advice I give is around these type of things start at the very fundamental things. Do we even have the right intakes? Can we even just get the car in and get it going? Wayne Marshall: That we can replicate this process over and over as we look at multiples? Cecil Bullard: I think it's also, you really have to talk about team. 'cause that's really what it is, right? Do I have a Wayne Marshall: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: Do I have a team of people that can carry out. The job and get the job done efficiently and profitably and in a timely way. Cecil Bullard: Correct. And do I have individuals that can do their job and know how to do their job? And I think most shops that, that I'm gonna go get a second location. I've seen this happen so many times. They have good people here, but they're doing everything. Based on I'm the owner and I'm telling people what to do and I'm managing I'll mention Lucas. Cecil Bullard: Lucas Underwood. Lucas has struggled a bit because. When he's at the shop, he knows everything intuitively, right? So he can look at what's going on and make the adjustments in the shop for a much more productive, much more profitable business. The problem is that Lucas can't be in two locations at once. Cecil Bullard: And that's the same thing with every owner. So have I taught my people what their job is and then how to do their job efficiently, productively and profitably. And if I have those people, it also doesn't mean that I'm gonna have those people at the next place, right? No, so true. And we would, don't get me wrong, if you have a really strong team. Cecil Bullard: And you can go take two weeks off and you come back in the shop, there's no major problems, right? Whatever major problem happened while you were gone, somebody took care of it because they, no one understand how that needs to be done. I'm not necessary here. Now I'm gonna have a second location. Cecil Bullard: I don't want to take all the good people from there and move to the second location because I'm gonna struggle in my first location. I'm building a team of people that know and understand their job and the job of the business, how it all fits together. And if I do that well and as a coach, or a consultant or whatever you wanna call me trainer, I'd love to see a nice process manual right? Cecil Bullard: All formed out because I'd like to know that the job is well defined, because I've gotta take that and try to recreate that over here. And I've got whatever's here. Which is the other, Cecil Bullard: The other thing, understand what you're buying as, as best as you can. And even though you might think you understand what you're buying, you may not really understand what you're buying. Cecil Bullard: One of the guys bought a shop and paid too much for it, and there was a lot of money being run off the books and that's why they paid too much for it. And I. I told him don't buy it, but he did anyway. And when we got the shop, we had the employees there, but we come to find out all of the employees were being paid under the table. Cecil Bullard: We can't do that. I'm a professional business person. I'm not willing to go to prison. Et cetera, et cetera. So I can't do that. How do you go to employees and say, I have to start taking taxes and FICA and feta and workers' comp and other stuff outta your pay and have them be happy. Cecil Bullard: So all of a sudden we've pretty much lost and now we're building a whole new team. Probably a good thing, but that, do I have the energy, the effort, the the money, the bandwidth to, to do that? And if I have a team here that really knows and understands their job, then I can go here and spend time building this team. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But if I, now, if I have two teams that don't really know and understand their job or people on those teams that don't know and understand their job. It's gonna be much more difficult. And I will tell you, and I think anybody that's got multiple shops and we have lots of clients that have multiple shops, I think the largest we have right now is 26 or 28 shops. Cecil Bullard: The, that having two shops. Is three times harder than having one shop. And having three shops is probably four times harder than having one shop. And having four shops is easier than having two or three shops. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Because at that point you've worked some of the bugs out. You're getting some middle management, get scalability you can't afford, you're getting scalability. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: So when do I know well. I don't know, probably half or more of the people that, that go to shop. Number two is shop number three. Really probably aren't ready. The one nice thing about shop owners and is that we're. We're insane. We're crazy. We will do what it takes, which means if I've gotta work, 85 hours this week to, to make it work I will do that. Cecil Bullard: And I think that's a plus in some ways, but I think it's a negative in other ways because we rely on ourselves to do the stuff where we can't expand our business if that's who we are. Wayne Marshall: Simple, something I learned. In my business past life, simple question. I would always ask staff as we were growing and scaling and changing, they would come up and I go and we want to do it because there's a serving heart that you have as an owner and as you're building you, you just want to answer the question. Wayne Marshall: You want to help 'em out. But to really build their knowledge, I would always stop and I'd go what do you think we should do? Tell me how you wanna solve this problem, how do you wanna go about it? And when you start listening to 'em, it's a simple test to know how much they really have studied the manuals and the processes. Wayne Marshall: But you're gonna see that they can start answering that they really do have knowledge of the content and what we're doing. But the second is that it's an opportunity to give them affirmation and saying, perfect, that's exactly what I would've done too. And then they go away. And pretty soon some of those questions that were. Wayne Marshall: Taking up a lot of your time and the question as it said earlier about being out of the office and Can I leave, can I not? Now you feel comfortable because you've tested knowledge by just a simple question of what do you think we should do? How do you think we should go about that? It's a way to see where they're at, what they got and what they need to be doing. Cecil Bullard: And I've seen it over and again where the employees become hobbled. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: To use a horse term. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And because. The, I was talk, I talk about electricity, where does electricity go? It's to the fastest path to ground. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Every single time. Least resistance, no matter what the path of least resistance. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: If you become the path of least resistance for your employees, then they're gonna come to you for all the answers, which makes you feel great. Don't get me wrong, I love it when employee comes to me and says, Hey Cecil, what? What do we do? And I can give them the answer and they walk me happy. Cecil Bullard: And I'm like I still got it. I'm still smart, but. Am I hobbling that employee by giving them the answer? Do I? Don't I really wanna teach people how to come up with their own answers and how to make great decisions? Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And the more I do that in my business, the more likely I'll be ready for shop number two or shop number three, because I'm not the answer man in my company. Cecil Bullard: We had a big company meeting yesterday. We brought some of our staffing. We're talking about the future. It's what we do at this time of year and I'm sitting in that meeting and, I've got. Lots of years of experience. I've founded the company, blah, blah, blah. And there's a lot of things that I could just go, okay, that's what we're gonna do. Cecil Bullard: Or blah, blah. It, just I wanna be the answer guy. I know I wanna have the answers. I Wayne Marshall: know. Cecil Bullard: And it's really hard to sit there and go, huh okay, what do you think? Or, you but you have to do that. Otherwise you limit your company. I said it yesterday in our meeting, a company, a million dollar company runs a specific way. Cecil Bullard: You cannot treat a, $5 million company the same way you treat a million dollar company. And a 10 million. And a 10 million won't run like a 5 million. Nope. Nope. And I would say it's the same thing. You can't, when you have one shop, you treat that in a specific way and you can be there. Cecil Bullard: To answer questions. And so you can hobble your employees, you can hobble your team, you can make them relying on you. But when you go to two shops, you can't always be there. So you can't run two shops. Like you run one shop, you might get away with it. Frankly, it's gonna probably kill you timewise and energy wise but when you get three, no way. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so you can't run a multi shop operation the same way you run a single shop operation. Wayne Marshall: That's why they say, the only difference from a company that does this much in business to this much in business to the even higher number of business dollars is just structure in its organization. Wayne Marshall: We get into, as as we, going back to some of the things we talked about, expense, investment, everything that's going on. We get many clients we talk to and they're like, man, I was so busy. We were just slammed. We're this and that. But then you look at the data and then you look at was it the right kind of business? Wayne Marshall: Sure you were busy, but were you doing the right things? Were you getting structured correctly that allows you to build off this, just as we talked earlier with a multi shop location that you want to build. So just 'cause you're busy. Doesn't mean you're always gonna be profitable, doesn't mean your financials are gonna look the way you want it to look. Wayne Marshall: It's about building it out, getting it structured, getting it organized so that you can take those next steps. But also understanding and as we talk about with many clients, also know and understand what are the key KPIs that you want to be looking at so that you can truly see are my trending up. Am I trending flat or maybe, and hopefully not trending negative. Wayne Marshall: And it's one thing to have a bad day or a bad week, it's another thing to have multiple bad weeks turns into a bad month and a second, and then all of a sudden you're looking at your balance sheet and you're looking at your p and ls and you're losing money. Cecil Bullard: And in this industry we, we have this idea that busy equals success. Cecil Bullard: So lots of cars in the bay Yeah. Means we're successful. Lot in the parking Cecil Bullard: lot. Wait a minute, the guy on the street's got all these cars in his base. Doesn't mean anything. Is he making money? Is are we creating happy clients that are gonna come back to us? Are we profitable? Had a conversation this morning with one of my clients that I was I work with and he's they got a healthy average repair order. Cecil Bullard: They're booked out five days. And he's I, we didn't quite hit the numbers we need. Okay. So we have either, we have a problem in this particular case of car count, we have good average repair order. And we have good profit margin. And so now we wanna look at car count and how do we bring in two more cars a day? Cecil Bullard: But if we're not making profit on the jobs we're doing or if we're not making enough profit on the jobs we're doing, then why would I want to bring more cars in? Wayne Marshall: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: So busy is not. Busy is not necessarily success, and I don't really want to be busy. I wanna be consistent. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: I wanna have cons. Cecil Bullard: I wanna be consistently booked out five to seven days and I wanna be consistent. I want to consistently have 13 cars a day because I have four technicians and I wanna consistently do great inspections and sell great work to my clients. And I don't wanna be busy is not. Cecil Bullard: Necessarily better Wayne Marshall: if you're not. Yeah you've gotta bring in the efficiency numbers. There's so many different variables and I've seen, I had one just here this week also. Because we're into a new year. We're reflecting, we're doing a review on the 2025 numbers. And you know when you sit there and there was about 500 hours. Wayne Marshall: That were just lost through some inefficiencies and other things, and as I pointed out to the owner and we started talking about it, it's like, what could you have done with an extra 500 hours billable that got. Through the cracks and it was a bigger shop, big numbers, but still that's big dollars. Wayne Marshall: We sat down and by the time we got through that was about $80,000 that was left on the table. That turns into real money. Significant money. Yeah. That makes a difference. Cecil Bullard: Our conversation today was, okay, we do have a good average per but could we move it up a little? Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I remember having a conversation with my staff and saying. Cecil Bullard: What else could we do for our clients? And we decided that we were gonna replace their FOB batteries once a year. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And we did it for free as part of the service as far as labor, but we got, I don't, another $25 for batteries, right? Yeah. And so it moved the average repair order up Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And created more productivity and more profitability out of the company. Yeah. And it's these kind of conversations that. I don't know if I need to be in the middle of them or I even should, but. I want my team having those conversations, what do we do? And also I have a client that yesterday I was dealing with and he's oh my gosh, we did, they did 260,000 when we started with us, probably about one 30. Cecil Bullard: So we more than doubled, but supposedly on their p and l they lost 13 grand. Yeah. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's no way that it, and we had a $35,000 property tax payment that they expensed all at once. Wayne Marshall: Got it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And I'm looking through the p understand your numbers. Cecil Bullard: 'cause he's paranoid. He's oh my gosh. And no, dude, this was your property tax bill. It's it's not part of the Wayne Marshall: but you know that, that's where when we look at financials, it's a good reminder. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: When you get a one-time expense like that, that you're paying. Don't put it as part of your net operating income because it's a one-time deal, so it's still part of an expense, but put it below into extraordinary expense. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: It still shows that it's a negative on the net for the month, but when you look at from an operation standpoint, you still had a profitable month, you still did really well. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: As a shop. There's, this is where working with your bookkeeper, your accountant, talking about some of the different things because it can skew it and you miss this, that, no, I'm still doing well because if I didn't have this, which was an extraordinary expense that you've gotta put it on your financials, just don't put it as part of your operation. Wayne Marshall: Or if you do wanna put it at as an operation, then amortize it over the year or over a time period of what that payment was to cover so it stays flat and even, and it doesn't affect your net Cecil Bullard: operating. If we amortized it, we correctly we earn 12% now. I don't wanna earn 12%, I don't wanna earn 20. I know. Cecil Bullard: So there's still work to do. Wayne Marshall: I know, Cecil Bullard: but it's not, we lost. 20%. Exactly. Yeah. Understand your finances. I want to, I wanna step backward. Don't have another question at the moment. If you do have a question, please, yes. Put it on. 'cause we're here to answer 'em. But I want to, I wanna go backward to this. Cecil Bullard: Is it an expense? Yes. Coaching is an expense. You're gonna pay for that, but. If that's going to get you an extra 10,000, if that's gonna make your company more profitable, if that's going to increase your productivity, give you the opportunities to put a team together and build a really functional team Yes. Cecil Bullard: So that you can expand into number two, number three, and become I don't know. I think I'm necessary here still, right? I think I add a lot. But I'm not necessary to the day-to-day operation. And so as I said, the investment that I've made in training and coaching, I still buy books like crazy and Kent drives me nuts. Cecil Bullard: He's you bought another book? Yeah. I wanna I, I wanna learn new stuff. That has just it's worth millions. It's been worth millions, and it's been worth being able to spend time and do great things with my family and for my family that I don't know that I could have done that if I had done business the way my father had done. Cecil Bullard: Business, Wayne Marshall: When I talk to shop owners and we talk about do I do this, do I invest in that coaching, training and the things that come around it, and the biggest asset. That you have in your business are your people and yourself. And I always tell 'em, it's yeah, you wanna invest in that asset. Wayne Marshall: But I also tell 'em, I said, if you're ever gonna bet on somebody, bet on yourself. So if you can make yourself better, stronger, and you can work in a different way. That is gonna give you a return on investment. Obviously this in a financial way, but then, as I've also used the analogy, it's we go to the doctor, I wanna be healthy, I wanna live long. Wayne Marshall: I wanna do these things, doctor. I says, eat, pet, or exercise more, do all the things. So I join a gym, it's an expense. But if I take advantage of the gym, then the gym membership, and I get myself healthier, that's gonna give me better quality of life to go out and do and enjoy the outdoors. Maybe give me longevity of life to have greater experiences with my grandkids and my kids, and whatever you want to do as you get to that point in life. Wayne Marshall: So it's, Cecil Bullard: I think it's also, Wayne Marshall: it just gives back and back. Cecil Bullard: I think it's also value of life. Yes. Because I just don't want to like, go through this existence, which is Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Short enough. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And get to the end and go, okay. Yeah. I lived a long time, but I didn't have quality of life, the Wayne Marshall: value and quality Cecil Bullard: during that time. Cecil Bullard: And so the investment in the gym, if you never go to the gym. It isn't an investment, it's an expense. You wasted your money, but Wayne Marshall: yeah, that's Cecil Bullard: what I meant. But if you go to the gym and you take care of yourself, then inevitably you will live longer and you'll have better quality of life. I think coaching, it's not necessarily about money. Cecil Bullard: We have the third type of people that we have come to us. They got plenty of money. Their shop is profitable, but they don't have any time, or they don't have the quality of life they want. Or they have a child that is gonna come take over the business that they want to have quality of life. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so they come to coaching and they ask for coaching so that they can learn those types of things. So for me, coaching in part is about profit. 'cause I want to be profitable. 'cause when you have money in the bank. It's easier. You can take more risk, you can do more things. You're be more calculated, more at peace, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: But also for me, it's as much about quality of life and being able to say, I got a wild hair up my fanny and went to Vegas last week. I had a couple of days, didn't have much to do, and I was like, I'm gonna go hang out in Vegas. It's warmer. And, being able to do that and know that everything else is gonna happen the way it's supposed to happen. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I think it's in, for me, it's invaluable. And I think I'm gonna live a lot longer because of it. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. E Myth. Great book. And per what? Oh, you read a lot of books. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. E Myth is in my top 10. There's a, there's another book I'm I'm currently reading. Something hospitality un unbelievable. Wayne Marshall: Unexpected hospi. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And unexpected hospitality. Cecil Bullard: No, it's, no, Wayne Marshall: that's not yet. Cecil Bullard: It's not, but it's, Wayne Marshall: I know the book you about, and I apologize to the people out there, but I can't Cecil Bullard: of Wayne Marshall: any other, Cecil Bullard: There's probably, in my top ten's, a top 10 for me, and the E-Myth is everything about system, process, running the business, understanding it. Cecil Bullard: I don't know that we in the automotive industry have a really good. Financial book for our business because we need to look at our business financially a little different than, the hairdresser down the street or the grocery store. And I'm not sure there's a, that great book, but there's a lot of good financial books out there. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. To be had that will help you understand that or. There's some great coaches and coaching companies that can help you with that. Wayne Marshall: We one of the, I, and this has been probably 10 years ago, I read this book and it might even be older than this, but it's just simply the title is Finish and. Wayne Marshall: The reason I like this book, and I still reference it still to this day, is we as people, especially at the beginning of the new year, everybody starts off with New Year's resolution. Okay, this year I'm gonna get in shape, I'm going to eat better, I'm gonna do this, whatever it is. We have it for our businesses, we have it for our personal lives, so on and so forth. Wayne Marshall: But the thing about when you start looking about finish, it's about, as you set goals, how do you get to the end? And how do you finish? And one of the things that it brought up, and I thought it was very, 'cause using exercise and getting in shape is an easy one. It's okay, I'm gonna run. I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna get in better shape, I'm gonna do this. Wayne Marshall: But the question we never ask ourselves, do I even like running? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. What's the end? Where do I want, where do I, what's the end result for me? Is it just about running or, Wayne Marshall: so for me, I can tell you I hate running and I used to do it when I was younger, but I would, it would drop off 'cause I hate running. Wayne Marshall: It wasn't, some people love to go out and jog and they love to run. It's their therapy. Me. It wasn't, it was a job, it was a chore. So how do you think I finished? I didn't, I dropped off. I didn't complete my goals, went off to the side. And it's a good book that just starts to really work through is that if I wanna be this and this, do I wanna read, do I even like reading business books as an example? Wayne Marshall: Some people just like Cecil Devourer and just love getting them. I like it too, but I know other people I've talked to who's yeah, no, I don't wanna read all those books. So how else do I do it? Maybe it's a podcast, maybe it's whatever it is. If there's a place you want to go, decide what fits you first, then forcing you to do something you don't enjoy. Wayne Marshall: 'cause you'll never finish the goal. Cecil Bullard: Mark Buckingham has a book out. It's now Consider Your Strengths, I think is the title. It talks about educational theory in a way. Cecil Bullard: In the past, if you were really good at math, but you were terrible at English. They wanted to spend a lot of time with you in English, right? Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And this book really says if you're really good at certain things, then those are the things you should be doing, and you should be finding people. Yes. And surrounding yourself with other people in your life or in your company that are good at the things that you are not good at and makes Wayne Marshall: a great team. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we certainly have that, a lot of that here, which by the way uc, personalities make make us depersonalize a little nuts. But. It that is, I think it's important to say, these are the thi. Not only are these the thi this is the result I want, but these are the different ways that I could get there, and these are the ways that I'm going to enjoy. Cecil Bullard: Getting there. And there's always gonna be some pain involved. If you've gotta lose weight, it's, there's gonna be some pain involved. You're not gonna probably eat as much. You're gonna exercise a little more. You're gonna change some of your habits. You want to be more successful in your business. Cecil Bullard: There's gonna be a little pain involved. You're gonna have to learn some things that you currently don't know. And that can be Wayne Marshall: adapt a little. Cecil Bullard: It can be painful. Wayne Marshall: It can. Cecil Bullard: But yeah. I think it's a fantastic book. And I think. The E-Myth, obviously it's in my top 10. I'm not sure that now consider your strengths would be in my top 10, but might be in my top 50. Cecil Bullard: Understanding what you do well and then doing it well and bringing other people in for the things that you don't do well. That's a hell of an investment. Wayne Marshall: It, it is. I always, we both play sports and, grew up on those things, and it was in team scenarios, and there was roles I could fill very well in the football field or basketball court. Wayne Marshall: If coach asked me to go guard the seven foot center, I'd give it my best, but my odds of success went way down. So it's also in those scenarios of understanding your team. Put him in the best position of success. That's why I like to talk about sports analogies when I talk to customers and clients. Yeah, no, and I, you get it on the team. Cecil Bullard: I think sometimes you gotta guard the seven foot center. Because that's it. You're the, you're it, right? Yeah. And I did that. Sometimes you do. And it wasn't as successful. But we got through the game, Wayne Marshall: I always loved telling the story that when I played football growing up, yeah, I'd go up against a guy across the line. Wayne Marshall: He was bigger, stronger, but at least he knew I was there 'cause I was gonna just beat on him as much as I could. So I. I will let you read this Cecil Bullard: one. Bill Murphy. Thank you for the question. Bill, do you recommend first training on profitable services? IE alignments breaks after giving them the knowledge putting a spiff together to increase bay and tech profitability. Cecil Bullard: As long as you have the right tools to perform those services with the most productive ways, alignment machines can complete a 20 minute alignment compared to a machine that takes 40 to 50 minutes to complete. Invest in your equipment that will deliver them the best. I would tell you that I think our thought process in this particular area is flawed. Cecil Bullard: I need to make everything in my shop profitable, so I understand that I might have a guy that's really great on alignments who can do a 20 minute alignment and we can charge $170 for whatever. And are. Gross profit on that is gonna be pretty good. But I think if you start looking at gross profit on jobs, you're gonna find that your alignment jobs are not necessarily the most profitable jobs that you're doing. Cecil Bullard: I'm not saying they're not profitable. And that's not the point I'm making. I love the comment that I get now we're our least profitable jobs are diagnostics. Whoa. Wait a minute. I'm using my most expensive guy and my most expensive equipment and I'm the guy I'm gonna pay the most money. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And yet we're not profitable on that job because we're not estimating it properly. We're not accounting for the time properly, et cetera. And why not? Why are we not profitable as profitable when we do diagnostics, as when we do alignments? It's a management function. It's not Wayne Marshall: right. Cecil Bullard: It's not well, the customer refuses to pay for diag. We have lots of shops that earn, just as much money on diagnostics as they do on alignments. Yeah. And more frankly. Yes. And yes, I agree with you. If I've got somebody in my shop who's really good on alignments I probably don't want 'em out doing diagnostics if they're not good on diagnostics. Cecil Bullard: For me, one of the, one of the cardinal rules of dispatch is never give a technician a job they're not qualified for, because what happens is three days later, the tech is frustrated. The owner of the car is frustrated and the service advisor, shop manager, whatever, is frustrated. We, everybody's frustrated and nobody's made any money. Wayne Marshall: Yep, Cecil Bullard: yep. And the customer's unhappy. So I don't, that's not what I'm talking about. I certainly don't want to dispatch jobs to people, but I, in my business, when I set my business up, I wanna make sure that when we are doing diag, that there's a profitability that I want to, and can and should get out of that I don't wanna do the job. Cecil Bullard: If it's not gonna be profitable, then go do it somewhere else. I have to make every job in my business be profitable. And we know that some jobs are gonna be more profitable, there's gonna be more gross profit per hour and certain jobs than there are others. Throw a set of tires on in, 35 minutes and you're, you may make four or $500 and do a break job in 35 minutes, and you might make $200, depending on how you're estimating, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And it is a blend. That's the other factor here. I've got to take care of my client because I'm fearful, right? I'm very fearful my whole life I've been fearful Yeah. That somebody will try somebody else and they'll go I like him more than I like Cecil. And, or, they treated me better over here. Cecil Bullard: I feel better. It's closer to my house, whatever. And so I don't want my client going somewhere else. For anything, frankly, once you're here and you love us I wanna supply what you need, right? Wayne Marshall: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And I want to do that profitably in my company, if at all possible, which also means that I've got an investment in tools and education, technical training with my people so that they know what to do and how to do the job and what to do when. Cecil Bullard: I don't know what to do. Yeah. I, that's a question I usually ask in an interview. You've done everything, you've, you went through the book, you read everything. You did everything it told you, and you got to the end and the car's still not fixed. Now what do you do? Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And what I don't want to hear is, oh I'll spend another three days. Working on this car, I'll get it figured out. No. What's the next step? Oh, Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna call my friends and ask anybody, does anybody know a, I don't know, a Chrysler specialist on this stuff? Yeah, I can weeks, not a week goes by that I don't get a call or a message from one of our clients that says, Hey, we've got this price learner shop. Cecil Bullard: We've got this Toyota, we've got this. This Mercedes, and we're having a struggle. Does anybody know of a really great Mercedes? Here's the best Mercedes guy I know, right? Yeah. Let's call that guy and have a conversation. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because I don't want my tech digging in and spending three days on it that we can't get paid for. Cecil Bullard: So I think. As the business changes and AI's gonna change us a bit the technology that we have is changing our industry. Yeah. The fact that we have these private equity companies coming in trying to buy up the industry is changing our business. That we have to get smarter and better about how we do business and how we're profitable. Cecil Bullard: And as we do that, we create more value and we create more life. It that great question. Certainly if I have a a really good guy doing certain jobs I want to try to give them, but, every once in a while I probably have somebody else that needs to learn alignments. That might take two hours to do that alignment, but every once in a while I might. Need to funnel that alignment to that guy with the right mentor trainer in place to help him learn how to do those alignments and take 20 minutes instead of four hours. Wayne Marshall: Gotta play the game. It's like sports. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Practice. But until you do it, Cecil Bullard: sometimes you gotta put your bench on to, to Wayne Marshall: yeah. Cecil Bullard: Give you bench, see what they experience, and see what they see, what they have got. Wayne Marshall: See what they can do. A little bit of that stress test. Is it, Cecil Bullard: I used to bring, I used to bring service managers in when I was growing my, my, my shops. Cecil Bullard: And I would train 'em for two weeks. I would, or they'd have a trainer Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: mentor that literally, they were side by side for two weeks and then I'd call in and I'd just, the, in the morning I'd say, oh, geez, I'm really sorry. Something came up. I won't be in. So now the manager's there by himself. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I'd come in around one o'clock, hey, and I didn't do anything. Sat home, Wayne Marshall: just, Cecil Bullard: Just chilled out. You wanna see what would, because you can't kill my business in four hours, it is not gonna happen. And I remember one time I came in and the new service advisor manager was so excited. Cecil Bullard: He is I sold this engine for $16,000 and this is back when engines were. Seven or eight. And I was like, wow, that's great. And the customer bought it. Yeah. And I looked at the estimate and they had tripled the cost of the engine. So the engine itself, we paid, I dunno, three grand for, yeah. And they sold it for 12. Cecil Bullard: And I was like, oh, that's, ah, that's really great. Then I called the lady up that, that, that bought it and I said, good news. He overpriced the engine because he's relatively new. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So it's gonna cost you about six grand less. And she was happy and I get to see what they can do. Cecil Bullard: We have to stress test our people something. Yes. And see what happens. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And I don't even know, I think when you're stress testing, you don't even want to be there. You really want. Them to have to rely on their own knowledge and decision making. And you never do that in a place where it's gonna, greatly. Cecil Bullard: Where it could ruin your business. But yeah, I love to, I said Wayne Marshall: four hours. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, four hours. Yeah. Wayne Marshall: You find out what you got, Cecil Bullard: you pick up the pieces. Then another two weeks of training, then I would take a day off. Yeah. And then another two weeks of training and that's I love that. I love. I like putting people in positions where they need to think and they need to come up with solutions because they may not solve the problem the way that I would solve the problem, but if they can solve the problem and get to the same result and conclusion, and I think that's another thing about the difference between being a really good leader manager. Cecil Bullard: And or a really good, I'm a great sales guy or I'm a great tech, is that I'm able to help other people learn how to solve problems themselves. And I'm looking at results and not at how they do the job. My dad was teaching me how to pull a radiator and he crawled under the car and put up. A bucket under it and pulled the pitcock. Cecil Bullard: And then we stood there for 25 minutes and and then the next time I had to do a radiator, I was like, I'm not standing here for 25 minutes. So I put the bucket under, I pulled the lower radiator hose and my dad was like, you can't do it that way. You, that's not how we do it. We use the pitcock. Cecil Bullard: And I was like, not me buddy. And by the way, I got the job done 25 minutes faster than you did, I think sometimes we need to be open to that in initiative. Are we getting the right result, the same result? And if we haven't defined the results we want, that might be one of the problems that we have. Cecil Bullard: 'cause our team doesn't know what that is. Wayne Marshall: I know I shared this on a previous short little lessons I was putting out on leadership, and one of the things I say is, sometimes we need to be listening and really working with our team because not all the best answers and solutions come from the front office, and we sometimes have a tendency to think that we gotta do. Wayne Marshall: And if we listen and work with our team, you're gonna get great answers, great suggestions, and great things that can be done. Coming from the shop floor. Just as we talk about team, have those communications, build those things Cecil Bullard: well and what, when we talk about having a great team, part of that is about communication and people won't plan a team where they don't feel like they have value or they can have input. Cecil Bullard: They just won't, over time they'll completely lose interest and they won't be involved. And so we talk about having these communications and having team meetings and blah, blah, blah. And the owner's nobody will participate. Yeah, if you're gonna knock 'em every time they have an idea, if you're gonna say no or no, we gotta do it my way, or Wayne Marshall: they Cecil Bullard: quit Wayne Marshall: talking. Cecil Bullard: I, I would tell you that we need to sometimes actually do something that we know. Failed 10 years ago. We did it 10 years ago and it failed. Sometimes we need to let our team try it again because sometimes it works now. And even if it doesn't, they at least learn the lesson that it didn't, isn't gonna work. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Instead of saying, no, we won't do that. 'cause I tried it 10 years ago. Wayne Marshall: Bill, thank you for our last question of the day. What time do you dedicate in training programs, mentorship for each employee, monthly, front and back shop staff? Is there a hard rule to follow? And any recommendations we have? Wayne Marshall: I would tell you there is no hard rule to follow. Anything you do is gonna be better than doing nothing. And I think every employee's gonna be a little different. And I know when I had my staff, I would try to when I was at a different company and the old company I owned before I joined the institute. Wayne Marshall: I would always encourage them to at least have a one hour every other week time with somebody in the industry or in a business that could help them with some of their own growth. I always tried to do it with someone that was outside and we all know people, and I know when I looked at some of the different people on my staff, I ended up talking to some of our different clients even who would then come back and I said, one of the guy happened to be a senior VP at Advance Auto, and I said, would you be willing to do this? And this is a program I wanna run. He goes, oh my God, I would love to give back a little to your company. So the biggest thing is just do something. Don't do nothing. Whatever you're gonna do, help do what needs to be done. Cecil Bullard: I think too, you as part of the way that we pay technicians and or service size, literally anybody in the company. Part of that is we're trying to incentivize education, training and Right. And knowledge building. And in most of the pay plans that I would put together for shops, the technicians will have an eight to 12 hour a quarter training, meaning they're probably sitting in eight to 12 hour worth of training in any given quarter. Cecil Bullard: Given 48 hours a year. A, a good week's worth of really good training and keeps them knowledgeable and growing and et cetera. Even for service advisors in their pay plans, I want to have some training as part of, if you get this training, if you. Learn new things, you're gonna get paid more money. Cecil Bullard: 'cause I can do that. Wayne Marshall: You're making yourself more valuable to the company. Cecil Bullard: And I also say when you're talking about training and mentoring you're almost talking about two different things, right? Yes. If you're mentoring, you're, there's a training aspect to it. Cecil Bullard: But training in and of itself doesn't necessarily include mentoring. If I hired a brand new, a tech that's, 55 years old and been in the industry for 30 years they're still gonna come in my company and have a mentor for a minimum of 30 days. Someone that they can go to ask questions, someone's gonna show 'em, where the bathroom is, where's the toilet paper if it'ss not in the bathroom, how do you have things? Cecil Bullard: How do you clock in and out? Just the yes. The thing, oh, that's a machine I've never used. Can you show me how to use that machine? I wanna have someone that's their go-to and I used part of the pay that I would pay the employee, so I didn't pay 'em quite as much as I would until they were done with mentoring. Cecil Bullard: So I always withheld two to $4 of their initial pay per hour and said, when you sign off on these things as sign off. Yeah. With your mentor, the two of you signed it off, then that money is currently going to the mentor. It now comes to you. There's your 30 day raise. Your 90 day raise because you've shown that you can do these things. Cecil Bullard: And so I bel I believe that we should have mentoring and I believe that we should have a mentoring program and plan that's well thought out in our companies. For those positions, especially if we want to have two shops, three shops, four shops, or Oh Wayne Marshall: my god, Cecil Bullard: Build the, Wayne Marshall: very much so Cecil Bullard: The multi shop thing. Cecil Bullard: So yeah. Wayne Marshall: Guys, we want to thank and girls, sorry folks. We want to thank you for joining us today for Ask Us Anything. Look forward to seeing you again in the near future. Keep the questions coming. As you saw, if you've got something that we didn't address or you think of something after the fact, go ahead and email us at info at we are the institute.com. Wayne Marshall: We'd be happy to follow up, share anything we can that can help and make this a better industry as we tell everybody we want to do. Thank you. Cecil Bullard: Thank you for your time.

184 - Family Shop to Scalable Success: John White on Trust, Numbers, and Leadership December 16, 2025 - 01:05:05   Show Summary: After leaving for college and returning unexpectedly, John worked his way from the shop floor into leadership, eventually purchasing the business in early 2024. He explains how focusing on KPIs, especially gross profit per hour, transformed profitability while maintaining transparency and trust with customers.They also discusses digital vehicle inspections, the real cost of running a shop, and why presenting full repair information matters more than winning every sale. John closes with his vision for scaling to $4–5 million and opening a second location while elevating employees and the industry as a whole.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Johnathan White, Owner of Phil's Pro Auto Service Show Highlights: [00:02:05] – First car memory restoring a 1970 Datsun 240Z. [00:04:48] – Growing up in the shop felt rough and unstructured. [00:06:20] – Left for college, returned to the shop unexpectedly. [00:09:25] – Shift from technician mindset to shop leadership. [00:11:12] – Daily focus on KPIs like gross profit per hour. [00:13:36] – Presenting full repair needs builds long-term trust. [00:16:23] – Customers underestimate true shop overhead costs. [00:22:53] – Mindset training triggered major business growth. [00:29:18] – Mission built on transparency and community trust. [00:55:41] – Best advice: have hard succession conversations early. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea : Hello, friends. This is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Jonathan White. Jonathan Jonathan is with Bills Pro Auto Service out of Greeley, Colorado. Jonathan, how the heck are you, brother?   Johnathan White : I'm doing pretty good. Pretty unusually warm for winter. It is, isn't it? It's so weird. Are you. Have you had.   Jimmy Lea : Any snow yet?   Johnathan White : Yeah, like a dusting here. And then where I live, just a little bit north, we got, like, four inches. That's it.   Jimmy Lea : And is it gone now? It's already melted.   Johnathan White : Yeah. I mean, the next day.   Jimmy Lea : But yeah, we melted by lunch. We've had three dusting, but nothing serious. Nothing that's going to keep you out of school. Yeah, it's it's really weird. It's really weird. Now, Jonathan, I've known you as Jonathan for a very long time, and I noticed that you are have your name badge on. And you are John. Are you John White?   Johnathan White : I do go by John. Yeah. I only got the name Jonathan, when I was younger, when I was in trouble, so. Well, John, you are not.   Jimmy Lea : You are not in trouble, brother. I am so excited for you to be here with me today, so we can have just this awesome conversation about about you, about your business, about where you've come up from in the industry. And you are not in trouble. Is that okay?   Johnathan White : Sounds good.   Jimmy Lea : Good, good. So what I'm looking for here, Jonathan, to start our conversation. The automotive industry is such a wonderful industry to be in. There's so much opportunity for many people of many different walks. And I'd love to go back in your story. And in fact, I don't even know. I want to know how you got into the business first yet.   Jimmy Lea : But I do want to know what is your first car memory that hooked you? What is that moment? That mentor or that problem that you solved on a car? That said, oh, I like.   Johnathan White : This.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So at our, our older location, when I was growing up, because I grew up in the industry, there was a 1970 Datsun to 40 Z. And, I had the pleasure of taking two cars into one car and shot.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, that's an awesome car, dude.   Johnathan White : It was, it was a lot of fun sanding it, priming it all that stuff.   Jimmy Lea : You went for the full resto restoration?   Johnathan White : Yeah, when I was. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Okay. How old were you?   Johnathan White : 12 to 16. Wow.   Jimmy Lea : This is a four year love story. Yeah. Do you still have the car?   Johnathan White : I don't know now. Got rid of it. Yeah. I was cleaning out the back barn, basically, which had two of these that my dad had acquired over the years, and one of them was wrecked and the other one wasn't, and one had a bad motor and the other one didn't. And so that's kind of kind of the story with that.   Jimmy Lea : So I'm guessing the wrecked one had a good motor. Yeah. The good motor went into the.   Johnathan White : The other one. Well what.   Jimmy Lea : What color did you paint your.   Johnathan White : Truck. It was that orange color that you.   Jimmy Lea : The 1970s disco.   Johnathan White : Orange. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.   Jimmy Lea : Dude, that is so rad. What year was this car again?   Johnathan White : 1970   Jimmy Lea : 70. My mother graduated high school in 69. She graduated college in 73. Two, three, three. And her graduation present was to be, 243.   Johnathan White : This is this is a cool car. Back then, it was really cool. All right. Next to it in the barn was also a 1967, Mercury Cougar. Oh, so with a 427 coverage jet engine in it. The barely fit.   Jimmy Lea : No doubt. Do you still have it? Is it still in the barn?   Johnathan White : That so? That was my. That was my dad's baby. And, he sold that. He never drove it. So I always wanted to fix it up more and then got rid of it. I want to say 20.   Johnathan White : 2013 ish. Somewhere around there, he felt that it was never getting used and it was just sitting in the back. So. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : What good is it as a paperweight? Who enjoys that? You enjoyed the memory of it. You've got it in your collection. But I, I agree, I agree. Yeah. Get it out there into the world. Let people enjoy it. So what was it like growing up around the family business?   Johnathan White : Be honest, it was pretty terrible. As with a lot of the automotive trade, you have a bunch of technicians that get into the business that don't really have business knowledge, and they don't know what they don't know, and they don't run it necessarily correct it correctly. So, that was rough. I mean, the shop was my babysitter.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, ouch.   Johnathan White : I grew up, you know, every summer I was at the shop all day, every day. Because that was where, you know, my parents could afford childcare. And when I was younger, that's that's why I went.   Jimmy Lea : Wow, dude. So, the shop was cheaper than daycare. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. And and you're talking about pops?   Johnathan White : Yep.   Jimmy Lea : Pops was a phenomenal technician, but just lacked the business acumen.   Johnathan White : Yep, yep. And, he took training and stuff like that. And the problem is, he was bad about understand the problem, but he never would implement solutions. It is a lot of other things, right? I'm not. Yeah, that there was things that just the business side of it running profitably. Things like that, but wasn't there. So I really grew up to disdain the shop.   Johnathan White : I didn't like it. Then when I turned 18, I left town and got away.   Jimmy Lea : Nice. Where'd you go? What'd you do?   Johnathan White : I went to CSU's, studied engineering and business, and had friends graduating with degrees with thousands of dollars debt. And luckily, I had gotten some scholarships and stuff like that and saved up money through working, through high school and stuff like that, that I didn't have a lot of debt. And, I basically couldn't get a job, went to work at the shop as a fallback and kind of never left.   Johnathan White : So.   Jimmy Lea : Oh my word. So you're, you have an engineering degree and a business degree.   Johnathan White : I do not have an engineering degree. I oh, I was a engineering major. I got to statics and kind of didn't like that. And so I had the business minor that turned into a major.   Jimmy Lea : Very good. Yeah, I my business calculus class and business trigonometry was like. What?   Johnathan White : I can see it. I can put my hands on it. I can understand it. It was the, very abstract, you know, imagine force vector on this imaginary thing. And it's, it was it was something that I was struggling with. So I'm really good with seeing a problem and being able to touch the problem and figuring it out that way.   Johnathan White : So, and that's kind of where my love for cars came from. And, I started working at the shop and went up through the ranks, and then I started racing and.   Jimmy Lea : Whoa, hold the hold the phone. I didn't know you had a racing career. Are you serious?   Johnathan White : That was with,   Jimmy Lea : Would you race with NASA?   Johnathan White : And, were you driving? Yep. Dude, I did, time trials and I also did, autocross and I was super competitive locally, not so much nationally. There's a lot of really good drivers that show up to the nationals, like, props showed up one year. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of very good talent.   Johnathan White : Show up. And so I would kind of usually get my, get wiped off.   Jimmy Lea : You get your booty kicked. Pretty.   Johnathan White : Much. Oh my gosh. But it was a it was a really good learning experience. Obviously, I, I was constantly at the shop tinkering with the car after hours and things like that. So, and I always enjoyed conquering the problem and figuring stuff out. So yeah, I kind of just grew up with, through the, through the shop and can grow and learn more about the business and then I eventually took over the business.   Jimmy Lea : So what's that point? What's the point where you you you're welcome back to reality and you learn that lesson that you go from working in the shop to leading the shop.   Johnathan White : Right? So that's, one that takes a lot of personal growth. And I'm still working on that, leadership aspect. I know that's a deficiency of mine, but, I'm really good with numbers and, and all that aspect. So I've been able to grow the shop a lot. And luckily I've been able to hire well and have a good team in that regard.   Jimmy Lea : The team is so important, isn't it? The team is so important. And numbers come easy to you. Is that from your, engineering background, or is that more.   Johnathan White : I'm always in the background. Yeah. So I've always been really good with math. So. Okay, that's one of the subjects that really came easy to me. So I just, I always like numbers and diving in the numbers and figuring out what they equal and how to manipulate them to get the result I want and things like that.   Johnathan White : I've always enjoyed. So. Oh, that's so awesome. You know, the, companies that have come out that provide a lot of data where you can dig into things, how manipulate data. I've always really enjoyed where I can, I can kind of go down a rabbit hole of looking at numbers sets and figuring out medians and, you know, all the KPIs that we study as a, as a business.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah. What are some of those KPIs that you like to dig into that you what's a daily that you look at. And then a weekly and and then definitely the monthly. So we've got three different areas that you're looking at. Because a lot of shop owners really don't pay attention to the numbers. But once a month or maybe when it's time for payroll, what's that daily KPI, the weekly, what do you look at.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So we have a weekly, target goal of what we want to hit as far as sales per per week. But we also look at, you know, average row, median row, which is way different. GP per hour is probably the biggest one more so than GP percentages. You know, average quote hours per hour. So, close ratio.   Johnathan White : Okay. Yeah. Those are the probably the big ones I really watch.   Jimmy Lea : And you're watching this on the weekly basis.   Johnathan White : I know I watch it every day.   Jimmy Lea : Oh is that okay. This is the daily.   Johnathan White : So every week I review where we're at and kind of have like a report card for the week. Yes.   Jimmy Lea : Yep. And where do you pull this data from.   Johnathan White : So the data gets pulled out of my shop management system. But I use, Octo Rocket to go deep diving down the rabbit hole. If I really, you know, see, like a tech quote that's off base. So where we normally end up or it's too high to low, I'll look into each individual ticket. I'll you know, look into what our close ratio was on those tickets.   Johnathan White : Figure out where we can improve. You know, our problem with our industry. Right now is it's a good problem. But most cars are getting a higher mileage Iron age, which means you're having higher and higher tech quotes because cars are getting worn out. And then we we build up everything. We present everything. But you have to be very careful how you present that, especially to a new customer.   Johnathan White : You don't want to blow them out of the water, but I still find that we still need to present that because I don't want to. Only, you know, oh, well, all this other stuff, well, you know, the lack of maintenance and stuff. We'll just brush it off to the side. Well, when we present the big stuff, because there's the problem with that.   Johnathan White : You get into that pattern of, or you're only going to do the big things or what they need right now. It's not serving the client correctly. It's not it's not giving them the right information. And then you also have them come back a time and time again. Every time they come back, you have a new list. Yes. And then then it gets to the point where they feel like they're just being raked over the coals every time they come in.   Johnathan White : So I'd rather lose the sale and make sure I presented the information to where I feel like I presented all the options. Then. Then trying to sugarcoat it and, you know, to win the sale.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, I totally agree. You definitely don't want to sugarcoat anything and just think of it as your own health. When you walk out of a doctor's office, you want to know everything. You want to know all the good, the bad, the warts, the moles, the everything. And then you can make a decision on how you want to proceed with what you're doing.   Jimmy Lea : Do you want to take this medication or you want to change your lifestyle and eat better, or whatever the exercise more and be better conscious of your nutrition? And with a vehicle, with a car, you're right. If if every time I come to you it's like $3,000, $3,000, $3,000. Wait a second, man, I put more into this car than it's worth.   Jimmy Lea : Well, yeah, you have, but look at your car. It's really good. But as a consumer, I'm really feeling the weight of drive Swiss cheese here. This is such a bad vehicle. There's so many holes in it. At what point do I go, hey, John. John,   Jimmy Lea : Do I really keep this car anymore?   Johnathan White : Well, that's all government conversation that you really have to have. And I think that's one thing on the flip side that our industry as independents do really well compared to dealerships, because we're not we're here to serve the client and inform the client and present the the options to them versus, you know, bumping up car counts so high that we're just turning and burning rapidly.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah. We don't want to be a number. We don't want to be a statistic. We don't want to be a cog in that machine. And dealerships, if they took the same approach that we do in the automotive aftermarket. Oh my gosh, we would have a challenge.   Johnathan White : Right? But this.   Jimmy Lea : Well and to that point, John to John, man, I keep on and call you Jonathan. John. To that point, what's some of the things that's more complex, than outsiders realize? What's some of that things that, that customers don't see, that's the hardest things for you to manage as a shop owner?   Johnathan White : Well, as a business, you are there to generate profit, right? You don't come to work, to work, a job, come to you, generate a profit for the business and make it financially make sense to own a business. There's a lot of risks with having a business. So at the end of the day, it makes sense to have that business.   Johnathan White : So in order to run it profitably, you have to charge what you need to charge. And there are a lot of customers don't really understand, you know, new alignment machines, 30 grand, a new alignment racks, 30 grand, you know. Yeah. You can get some of the stuff cheaper and get what you pay for in an aspect.   Johnathan White : But scan tools again, you got $10,000 here, another $5,000 here or $5,000 here. Plus you have all the subscriptions every year. You're $1,500 here or $1,500 here. You got your point of sale system here. You got your credit card fees, which, you know, 2.3%, whatever it ends up being. You know, if you process, let's say, hypothetically, $1 million in a year on a credit cards.   Johnathan White : I mean, that adds up pretty quick. All that stuff adds up into, as a business, we have, on average, higher overheads than a lot of other businesses, which means that we have to run that overhead. And obviously we're limited by production. We only have so many hours in the day. So, there's a lot of those factors that especially on a like short month, like last month, that how running that overheads a lot more difficult than the longer month.   Johnathan White : So, it's just a balancing act between customer expectations and then what actual shop goals we need to be and where they need to be. So balancing act more or less is probably the hardest thing with a customer point of view.   Jimmy Lea : Oh yeah, it's so true. It's so true. And and you bring up a really, really good point. How do you go from a 22 day month. And we're talking business days that you're open and buy. How many days are you open.   Johnathan White : John I make it even more difficult because we're only open four days a week.   Jimmy Lea : Okay? Four days a week. So the normal business day would go from a 22 day week down to an 18 day week, and you're going to go from a 20 day down to 16. Are you done?   Johnathan White : It was 14 last month.   Jimmy Lea : Was 14 last month.   Johnathan White : Because we were closed also the Friday after Thanksgiving. So yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Oh man. Yeah that that's that that is pretty tight brother.   Johnathan White : That's we got it done.   Jimmy Lea : But yeah you do. Yeah you do. So, What? You're right. People just don't understand the all the intricacies that go into this industry. And and not only do we have labor, we have parts, and we have parts that we need to do markup. But why? Why markup my parts? Well, because I got a warranty. I got a guarantee it if you're going to come back and say it broke and it truly did, well, then I need to be able to afford to be able to replace it.   Jimmy Lea : Otherwise you won't be bringing it back to me because I won't be here right? And the public doesn't understand that always. What? What is some, training, coaching or industry communities that have helped you, grow in your ownership? Leadership position? Who or what made that biggest impact on you?   Johnathan White : So I've been part of elite. My dad was part of them is they got a lot of good information from them. A lot of it I ended up using. He just never made that change.   Jimmy Lea : It was hard for him to implement. It wasn't a muscle he had developed. Right?   Johnathan White : Correct. Yeah. He he expected different results with the same inputs. And yeah.   Jimmy Lea : We know that doesn't really.   Johnathan White : Work. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Is this back in the days when, Bob Cooper was there?   Johnathan White : Yeah, yeah, he was in actually, Bob Cooper's, the Tony groups, the.   Jimmy Lea : He he's a he's a star. I love Bob, and I could sit and listen to him for days.   Johnathan White : Right. He's a great public speaker. So phenomenal.   Jimmy Lea : Totally agree.   Johnathan White : Training with. You know, Lee, I had, I went to some training with Rick White. I did some training with you guys, and I also, did training for which outfits? So nice. They all have, good things, to, to say and and implement and things to listen to. Everybody has a different perspective. Truth.   Johnathan White : I think it's a good thing to sample and see what, what works out best for you. Because what works for one person may not be the style or approach that you need for the next person.   Jimmy Lea : They're it's true, it's true. Everybody needs a coach. And at some point you're going to outgrow the coach, right? And you're probably going to need to change. And that's one of the beautiful things I love about the Institute. I've got 16 different coaches right now. So if you if you outgrow one coach, I've got other coaches that really excel in areas of marketing or really excel in areas of getting your finances ready for, garage model or shop efficiencies, if that's what you're looking for.   Jimmy Lea : So it allows you to switch from coach to coach to coach to coach. Right. And at some point, you probably learn everything that we could possibly teach you from a one on one coaching point. And now it's time to get into a group. Have you ever been in a mastermind group environment?   Johnathan White : Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's good to give back in that regard. Where you're not necessarily the one getting on, but you're giving. Yes. I, I believe in that servitude that it's important to get back. So, I mean, that's what I'm currently doing. So I actually am an assistant coach right now. Congrats.   Johnathan White : So that's mine with shop picks. Yep. Congrats, bro. That's awesome. It's nice to be able to get a different perspective, different coaching style. You know, sometimes, I mean, even when I joined, I was resistant to some of the changes that I needed to do. And it took it just took this one extra class that I took that wasn't even the required class.   Johnathan White : It was just a mindset class. And that's really what flipped the needle for me. You never know when your breakthrough is going to happen, but the coaching group and a lot of it, you get out what you put into it. So if you're resisting change or you don't listen or that doesn't work here, that's not my market or whatever excuse you want to come up with.   Johnathan White : You're only going to you're only going to reach a certain level. And I've, you know, as a, as a assistant coach, a lot of the times it's, it's easier to train the people that are kind of at the, at their, their end of their rope. They, you know, they don't have anywhere else down to go. They can only go kind of up versus the people that come into the coaching that they're doing.   Johnathan White : All right. And it could be better. And that's where I was when I joined. And I didn't really want to listen for a while and oh my.   Jimmy Lea : Gosh, isn't that wild.   Johnathan White : And then I had that mindset class and something about that class flipped the switch. And then we we grew 700,001 year. Hallelujah. Something like that.   Jimmy Lea : So the mindset is is very strong. It's very strong. And once you're able to flip that switch, man, it does change everything. Congratulations. That's I'm that's that's beautiful brother. That yeah. There's there's so much beauty that comes from what you've just shared. And a lot of people don't get it. They don't understand it. And do you know Ron Hagan, Des Moines?   Jimmy Lea : He's from Des Moines, Iowa. He had West Side Auto pro, he sold his business, moved to Mexico.   Johnathan White : That sounds pretty, but I'm bad with names. I'm better.   Jimmy Lea : I'll bet. When? When we're done, you can look them up on Facebook. You'd be like, oh, yeah, I know, I know that guy. Ron Haugen was, I've been in very similar situation. He was at the end of his rope. He had two bays. He had a tech, and and he was he went to a training and it was back in the day Arlo with Blake.   Jimmy Lea : Bottom line impact group. And he signed up for the the he signed up for the program and it was a one year commitment. He's like hey look this is sink or swim. I am in the deep end. My nose is underwater. I'm going to drown. So this either has to work or I'm going to pack up my toolbox, head to the dealership because, I'm I'm I'm one more month away from total bankruptcy.   Jimmy Lea : And he got into that coaching and training group, and he says, I don't care what you tell me to do, I'm going to do it. Because what I have done so far has gotten me what I where I am today. So you tell me, I need to paint the front door pink. I'm going to paint it pink.   Johnathan White : Right?   Jimmy Lea : Whatever you tell me, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And it was for him an immediate turnaround. He grew and grew and grew and grew and grew a beautiful, successful business that he has since sold off to his, general manager. And now Ron lives in Mexico, and he travels back and forth and does things every once in a while.   Jimmy Lea : But man, I, I do this definitely enjoying retirement. So that mindset is that last bit of, oh my gosh, it's sink or swim.   Johnathan White : Great. And the other thing is like, you can people can listen from the outside in, you know, all the all they care about is, you know, as the owners grow on their business or, you know, being financially better, blah, blah, blah. But you know, the, the thing that comes with making the business better. Yes. A lot of times it brings up the employees too.   Johnathan White : Yes, the lives of the your employees as a direct result of the business improving. You're you're providing more function and you'll stay ability you're better able to offer better benefits. You're able to offer more room for them to grow potentially, you know, especially when you get into the people that had a single location and they weren't doing that well.   Johnathan White : And then that became really well. And then they opened, you know, two, three, four locations next. Now there's room for those people to grow, not just being technicians to the ability to to be, you know, the the general foreman for multiple stores where they drop into a store that loses a tech for a day. You know, there's there's more to it than just the business doing better and the, the owner making more money per se.   Jimmy Lea : You are correct. And in two things with the institute. One is our, our mission, our vision, our our statement, our mantra, our marching band. We are here to build a better business, provide a better life and a better industry. And so I say these three in that order, build a better business. It helps you as the shop owner, helps you build a better business because you can't feed people from empty shelves.   Jimmy Lea : You've got to have profit. You've got to have the funds to be able to give better business results in a better life. Yeah, it's a better life for you as a business owner. It's a better life for your service advisors and your technicians because you can provide better benefits, more benefits for one case health, vision, dental, time off, vacations.   Jimmy Lea : But not only is it a better life for you and your service advisors and your managers and your technicians, it's also a better life for your spouse and your children and your service advisors, spouses or children and their technicians, spouse and and children. It's a better life for everybody. The ripple effect of having a better business. How can you count it right?   Jimmy Lea : You how can you count that? And then that. As an institute, we're here to lock arms so that we as an industry, we elevate the entire industry.   Johnathan White : Right.   Jimmy Lea : Better industry.   Johnathan White : Yep, I agree, I love it.   Jimmy Lea : If you were to describe your shop today, your mission, your vision, your why, what does that look like to you? How do you describe that to somebody?   Johnathan White : Yep. So our mission statement is Building community trust one repair at a time. I love it. So, want to be known as the most transparent shop, the most reliable shop. And, that's basically our mission goal is to to do that. So and I think our, our, Google reviews reflect upon that. Now, are we perfect? No.   Johnathan White : Do we screw up, make mistakes? Yep, definitely. But it's how we handle those mistakes.   Jimmy Lea : Stand up. Own it. Eat that crow while it's warm. Because the longer you wait, the worse it gets.   Johnathan White : Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : So, you talk about transparency. What are some of the the means, the method, the methods, the mediums. What are you using or doing to provide that transparency with your clients? Your customers?   Johnathan White : Yep. So I'm a big believer in digital vehicle inspections.   Jimmy Lea : I love devices, love devices. What are you using? What do you do.   Johnathan White : So we actually use we use tech metrics, internal DVI tool. Nice. And so it works. Works fine. I think as far as, like a customer, it's perspective. Because I've been on a lot of different point of sale systems. I think software is probably one of the best as far as the vehicle experience inspection aspect.   Johnathan White : Is there's other issues I had with it. So that's kind of why we moved to tech. But I think as a whole, whatever point of sale you're using, you should have some sort of digital inspection. It just allows a lot more trust. It makes the sale easier. You can do video, pictures, PDFs. I mean, we upload all our scan results to it.   Johnathan White : It it also allows the, you know, to be able to dispel some of the ever since, you know.   Jimmy Lea : Ever since you touched my car, ever since you touched my truck.   Johnathan White : Yeah. And you know, the people, unfortunately, they get buyers almost more. So they spend a lot of money. There's they they start getting in their own head, and then they start thinking about everything. And. Well, I'm going to, you know, as the industry as a whole, we have a not so great reputation. So that's where a lot of the blame ends up falling on.   Johnathan White : So DVS help with that, because if you take a required under car picture, every car. And they said, well, you know, you did my front end repairs and now I have an oil leak. It's like, no, what the. We had that picture and we even wrote a note about it the last time you were in. But more so than that, it's it's being able to provide that trust with that customer.   Johnathan White : Like, here's, here's our testing results. This is exactly what we tested. We were testing for a, GM that's got a variable valve timing fault, and it's got a basically a bad intake, actuator solenoid and we found that the OAM rating for factory is 10 to 12 and it's at 16. Well there you go. There's proof that that part is what's bad.   Johnathan White : So rather than you know you pay me a diag there's just a diag line. And then there's a repair line. Why. As a yes as as a consumer. Why why did it why did I pay that. What did you find. Why are we doing this repair. The other thing that it helps with us is say we, you know, we fix something.   Johnathan White : Unfortunately, with modern vehicles, sometimes they can have a check engine light come on after repairs, after so many miles because it finally ram this other monitor. Well, we fixed a drivability fault, but then the check engine light came back on later, you know, 20, 30 miles later. And it's got to me. That felt good. Well was it never ran that.   Johnathan White : So it's not the same code so we can fall back on our data. That code wasn't there prior. Now it is, you know, hey we need to look into this different system. It just allows us also if we, if we fix something. And now the parts, it's failed again. Same fault. Did we miss anything on our Dag?   Johnathan White : Did we miss a step or do we have a defective part?   Jimmy Lea : Yeah.   Johnathan White : And this day. And age parts aren't what they used to be. And, it's not uncommon to to get a part, but failed. And you did everything right. But, having that data to fall back on is is extremely valuable. It's paramount. Yeah. Even for not just the customer perspective. Are you.   Jimmy Lea : Able to. And you bring up a really good point here. The parts aren't the same as what they used to be. Are you able to test any of these parts before you install to say, oh, you know what? This is good. I know it's going to be good or.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So, like, ratings and some of that stuff. But I mean, can you test the thermostat before you put it in. Yeah. Yes. Ish. But then I'm not really. How much time are you spending testing to verify that part's good before you put it in there then does that how can you justify that cost? So it's just like figuring out what, you know, parts do you like and what parts seem to work well for you.   Johnathan White : And we use more and more OEM parts than we historically used to. And there's certain things that I will only get OEM unless it's not an option. Electrical being the big one. Yeah. But it's you have to figure out for yourself what what quality of repairs you're comfortable with. And obviously, you know, parts play a big factor in that.   Johnathan White : So what's totally does what's really does.   Jimmy Lea : So for for my mother that's listening to this because she does and she doesn't understand OEM. What is the OEM.   Johnathan White : Original equipment manufacturer. Yes I know yes. Which is an original equipment source. So OEM would be like getting a Toyota water pump. Oh yes. Would be getting an ace and water pump because they are the supplier for that water pump too, just as I said, a Toyota on the box. So we use a lot of OS and OEM parts.   Jimmy Lea : You order enough that you can go direct to the manufacturer.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So like like they said is and water pumps we use all to. Yeah. So if I could get and there's certain manufacturers that if I could get more of them more reliable, I'd be a lot happier. But, there's a distributor that's unfortunately about an hour away from me that, sometimes turnaround requirements for customer means that I don't get to use those parts.   Jimmy Lea : Dang. Because they don't run a delivery vehicle out to you. But once a week type of deal.   Johnathan White : They run it? No, they run it twice a day. It's just, you know, a lot of customers. So slower only means of transportation, you know, getting that. Oh yeah. Even with Loaners, you know, we only have so many loaners. It's it's balancing again. What repair am I happy with versus what I want versus customer expectations and.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, it totally.   Johnathan White : It's all it's all the scale, slide scale and balancing act constantly for all that.   Jimmy Lea : It is, it is. And you're right. I mean for many people their vehicle is the most expensive item that they purchase. For those that own a home, I'm going to say the home is the most expensive thing that they'll ever purchase. But for many, it's a vehicle. It's their vehicle, it's the car. And they only have one, right?   Jimmy Lea : I only have one if I don't have my car. I'm, using Uber or Lyft or I'm relying on, my wife to give me around or, the kid's got a teenage car, so sometimes I have to borrow that if if my car's in the shop. But, yeah, it is the single vehicle of the family.   Johnathan White : Right. And and most people only have one. I mean, it's rare. Yeah. Or they have, you know, to or, you know, an extra if the wife and husband have a, you know, their own vehicles because they go to each go to different jobs, then yeah, they have an extra. That's pretty rare anymore. That it is. Even with a kid having the extra, it's they still need to get places.   Johnathan White : They got to get to school. The parents can't take them because their job starts at eight, you know? Yep. It's again why we have to constantly balance of where we would like the repair to be versus what's possible by time frame. Yeah. So the more the more you specialize, the more you can dictate. I feel that the repairs this, and that's the only option.   Johnathan White : But there's a point where you're just saying no to the group and, customers, you know, are. Am I much different than my competitors? I'd like to say yes. But at the same time, if I tell them I'm a week out, can they go elsewhere and probably get a decent repair? Yeah. Yeah. So saying no constantly and telling them, you know, they're not my customer.   Johnathan White : They're not this. Yeah. There's a point where they aren't your customer and and that. But you're losing a lot of opportunity. And that's what this industry is built on is opportunity cost. So you have to find your line of where you're saying yes to the right, right mindset and my yeah people. And then where you do draw your line and everybody's going to be a little different on that.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, so true, so true. Every shop is different. Every footprint is different. Every operation is different. And I've had the distinct pleasure of traveling all over North America, visiting shops. And I love it. What does your shop shop look like today, John? What? How many bays? Live service advisors, technicians.   Johnathan White : So we have a lot of room for growth ability. Our biggest limitation will be parking. But I have 11 days and six techs.   Jimmy Lea : Phenomenal. That's great. What's the property? How much?   Johnathan White : Properties like, it's a quarter of an acre, and the building is going to say 12,000ft². Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : So it's not it's not a huge it's not a big, humongous piece of land that you can park cars for a week, a month.   Johnathan White : No. Now we only have parking for 25 cars and we do have maybe 30. Yeah, about 30. We do about 25 cars a day. So we don't have a lot of wiggle room with parking. When we're, you know, waiting on parts and stuff like that. So that's a big reason that we have to get cars done efficiently and timely, because we just don't have the the space for it.   Johnathan White : And then you get in the snow season and then the snow pile takes up one parking spot and then you get enough snow. You have two spots that are down and oh yeah. So actually and we have our loaners. So right. Loaners being out because then it means I have a parking spot for their car. So I encourage the young loners to get used.   Jimmy Lea : Nice. That's good. So have you ever thought of a blowtorch for those piles of snow?   Johnathan White : Right. I just thought.   Jimmy Lea : Luckily, we are facing.   Johnathan White : The right direction. If you live in a place that gets snow, you know that if your driveway faces north, you're doomed for months on end. Right.   Jimmy Lea : That's a lot of salt you're throwing down. Yeah.   Johnathan White : Luckily, our building and main parking lot does face, south and the other side is a little on the west side. So we are lucky that we get a lot of sun exposure, so it does melt the snow pretty quickly. Being in a sunny state can be zero degrees, but sunny and still melting the snow, so that is beneficial.   Johnathan White : But still. Yeah, sometimes the biggest issue here is, is parking 100%.   Jimmy Lea : Oh yeah. You know. Yeah. Absolutely. Parking because, I'm thinking with the 11 bays, even if you were to double stack, which is difficult, there's a lot of pushing cars around. If you're double stacking every day, you just got to turn, turn, turn, turn, turn. You got to be quick and efficient on getting a minute out.   Johnathan White : Yep.   Jimmy Lea : That's awesome. So, I noticed that Phil's Pro Auto Service has been the recipient of a very distinguished. Very distinguished, accolade in being voted the best auto repair in Greeley for eight years in a row. This. What do you think that has gone into that that earned you that reputation?   Johnathan White : Yeah. So like I said, my dad wasn't great at running a business, but he did do one thing, right. He made sure the car was fixed. Right. The first time. It was a big mama, you know, thing that he pushed and, you know, taking care of the customer, having that communication. They're not just a number. We're taking care of the client or explaining to the client the repairs if they have questions were there.   Johnathan White : So if, you know, talking to a client, if realistically it takes 30 minutes to get them to understand the repair and what we need to do and why we need to do it, and that's what we do. So he really instilled that, and I've been able to fix the numbers side of the business, you know, as far as profitability, but still continue on doing fixing the repair.   Johnathan White : Right. Taking care of the client. So, again, very perfect. No, but we, we, you know, trying to be at that 99%.   Jimmy Lea : Point. It sounds like pops had the same mentality that my father had in teaching me, if you don't have time to get it done right the first time, you won't have time to get it right the second time. Correct? So dad gets it done right the first time or as close as possible. So congratulations to you and to your pops.   Jimmy Lea : Because he set the foundation, you were able to come in and refine the process, the procedure, get the profit where it needed to be, the KPIs in place at the point of sale system in place. That's phenomenal, I love that. Congratulations, John. That is so cool. So at what point is it that you took over operations?   Johnathan White : So I've been a I was the general manager slash lead advisor for 20 since 2015. And I really started to push changes 2017 to 19. And then I became the full owner actually beginning of 2024. Last year.   Jimmy Lea : I was congratulations.   Johnathan White : John. Son of the business. So.   Jimmy Lea : So is dad out or is he still coming in?   Johnathan White : He's officially retired as of his requirement was we need to keep him on at all. This year until.   Jimmy Lea : Till Jan one?   Johnathan White : No, until, actually, our 40th anniversary. So 40th anniversary was August 1st. And that's was his retirement. Hey, hey.   Jimmy Lea : Congratulations, pops. Way to go. And good for you, John. That's that's awesome, bro. That's so cool.   Johnathan White : Yeah. So. And my big thing was getting, manager to basically allow me to not be in day to day operations. For before he was 100% retired because he handled, like, payroll and some of the bookkeeping aspects, so. Right. That was, a struggle on itself. I think finding finding a manager is probably one of the more difficult things I've had to do.   Johnathan White : It's it's hard to hand it off and it's hard to, you know, you do things a certain way and understanding that they may do things a little bit differently. And so having that, you know, these are your goals and this is what I want to see. And how you get there necessarily doesn't matter as long as the end result is what I need it to be.   Jimmy Lea : And it's interesting. It is a difficult conversation to have because, you, you hold it so close. We as a as a leadership at in the business, we hold it so close. We want it done a certain way. And now we understand why it is that pop said no, no, no, because I said so.   Johnathan White : Right.   Jimmy Lea : And you're like, well, now I got to be able to explain it to somebody else. So we got to figure this one out.   Johnathan White : Yeah, yeah. That's probably was one of the more difficult things I've had to do in my years.   Jimmy Lea : So yeah, yeah for sure. So congrats on on buying the business from pops. That is super cool. 40th anniversary. Are we going to keep it as Phil's pro Phil states.   Johnathan White : As Phil's product. But I was.   Jimmy Lea : Going to ask, when are we going to change it to John's Pro out of service.   Johnathan White : Now? I mean, to him it's,   Jimmy Lea : Don't need to.   Johnathan White : Don't need to. And changing your business name and dealing with Google and all the online sources and.   Jimmy Lea : Rebranding back up.   Johnathan White : Or rebranding. No. Thank you.   Jimmy Lea : That's so tough.   Johnathan White : If you need to. And the the images back then that would make sense. But, great scenario. That is not the case. Agreed.   Jimmy Lea : So let's fast forward 3 to 5 years. What does winning look like for Phil's pro out of service. We looking at one elite location or you looking at multiple shop operations?   Johnathan White : Yep. So I'd like to get this location coming along between 4 and 5 million year. We're currently do 3.3 this year. That's. And then I'd like to have a second location on the west side of town. So we're currently on the east side, so we're basically Eighth Avenue. And I'd like to do one probably out at like 71st Avenue ish.   Johnathan White : And really just the west side of town, which is growing rapidly. If you've been to Northern Colorado, it's all kind of the cities are all kind of merging at this point in time. They really.   Jimmy Lea : Are. You're looking so much more like Los Angeles. Every day is just a high, high altitude Los Angeles.   Johnathan White : So that's that's ideally where I'd like to be in the next like 3 to 5. It's kind of been my goal. So that's what we're working towards.   Jimmy Lea : Beautiful. Congratulations. So when you get this current shop up into the 4 or 5 6 million, where does that put your efficiencies at.   Johnathan White : So we currently run my technicians average between the whole shop versus ours. They're here and hours worked where right now at 105%.   Jimmy Lea : Congrats that's all.   Johnathan White : We are very efficient in that regard. I the biggest, hurdle I have is just the way the building's designed to put another tech in. I like to, to have techs where they have the ability to have a second bay, because we all know that a parts issue happens or something comes up and you really need that extra, availability versus one tech in every bay is the most efficient model as far as as throughput, potential store capacity.   Johnathan White : But I do like having, where they have that ability to have another bay. So I really need to blow out a wall and add another tech or add another bay.   Jimmy Lea : A single bay, or would you add more than a single? Oh, you're on a quarter acre. How are you going to do that?   Johnathan White : So I have the ability inside the building to basically basically make a double stack. And well, my other tech already has a double stack, so if I can do that, then I get I have the ability to add another tech without much of an issue.   Jimmy Lea : And when you talk a double stack, I'm going to say double dip. Yeah w w okay okay. Tandem. You have two lifts in a row. Not side by side but front to back. Okay.   Johnathan White : Yep.   Jimmy Lea : So if I understood you right, you just said that you could expand by one bay, but also, is it in effect adding three bays?   Johnathan White : No. Just one minute. Yep. Now just one. Just one to, or one lift. So we would just blow out that wall and then move the equipment and add a bay there. It's there's a mezzanine there, but it wasn't ever it wasn't a part of the structural part of the building. So that can be torn down really easily.   Johnathan White : So that's, probably my next, next thing as far as adding another tech and, and boosting throughput through the shop, because right now we're, you know, we are running pretty efficient. Yeah. We're starting to get to the point where we're saying no. And it's one thing I don't like to say. So, I probably would have done it earlier, but this market this year has been a little topsy turvy.   Johnathan White : So I've been monitoring the market and waiting to do that, expansion when the timing seemed correct.   Jimmy Lea : So totally agree. The timing does, count for quite a bit. Quite a bit for sure. So for those shops that are listening in, they're saying, oh my gosh, she's at 105%.   Johnathan White :   Jimmy Lea : Is that the max that you can do or can you do more?   Johnathan White : We can do more. I mean, I have a tech that runs 150% efficient. So I mean, it comes down to to skill set and workflow and, you know, front counter, you know, really lining things up, right, and dispatching correctly. And a lot of things have to go right. So, is there room for improvement? Always. Can we get there?   Johnathan White : That's to be determined.   Jimmy Lea : Yep, yep. And 150 for a single technician. That's phenomenal. The most I've heard, I think, was 116% that I, that I've heard of personally, a shop running at 116% shop efficiencies, which is very, very cool to be able to hear something like that happening.   Johnathan White : Yeah, we, we definitely focus on that as being insufficient as we possibly can, you know, making sure we're doing things correctly or charging for things correctly. You know, if we are. That's why I don't like doing some quotes, you know, giving prices over the phone. You know, and there were no I got a can't do it. I got a check engine light on.   Johnathan White : Okay. Great. Is it one coders at six that that makes the diag process way different. Yeah. That's you know, that's one thing with, the suffix model of, you know, the 15 minute, no wrench is a great way to get people in the door. No phone calls whatsoever except for menu items. And then it allows you to get that initial, like quick triage where.   Johnathan White : Yeah, they, check engine lights on and have a drive. But there's one code. Great. It's this price that I get or it's, you know, you got a comment like, well, I can see the radiators. I can, we can start there, or we can pressure test it and try and confirm, you know.   Jimmy Lea : Where else is it leaking?   Johnathan White : You know, but. Oh, I got to check engine light. Oh, there's six codes in here. Three of them are misfires. You got a VAT code and you got a evap Falcon. All the there and the misfire may overlap. May not. But the key. That fault code. That's 100%. A separate system that's separate test. You know, now realistically to diagnose this right.   Johnathan White : We two two hours worth of evaluation time. If I'd given a phone call, we would have to decide at that point in time, are we going to tell the customer like, hey, we diagnose it and is this to repair this? But we also need more time for this. You know, that feels a little bait and switch. So, you know, again, managing customer expectations, informing customers and, and really making them understand why we're doing what we're doing is, is paramount.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, so true to so true. Thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for what you've done here in this industry. It's phenomenal. I love the industry. I love where we are and what we're doing. I love the coaching and training companies that that are helping to elevate this entire industry. It's it's can't be done by one.   Jimmy Lea : It has to be done by all. And where we stand, we lift.   Johnathan White : Great.   Jimmy Lea : I agree you have a unique background and I say unique because it's unique to you. But there are others out in the industry that are the son of the father who started the shop, and they're in your same boots.   Johnathan White : So if you were.   Jimmy Lea : To give yourself.   Johnathan White : Advice.   Jimmy Lea : And this is advice that you're now giving to other people in your same position, were you to start this journey today or tomorrow, knowing what you know that you've learned over the last 20 plus plus years? What advice would you give yourself in starting out as a son of an owner, positioning yourself to one day take over as the owner?   Johnathan White : Well, as humans, we hate competition. We hate having those hard conversations. And I would say that was the number one thing that I did not do. Soon enough, I did not have that hard conversation with my dad about, hey, when, you know, it was always, oh, well, you're going to take it over, you're going to take it over it.   Johnathan White : So, you know, at the point where I kept getting pushed back on changes I wanted to make, it's not the right direction. You know, whatever reasoning there was, having that heart conversation to the point of, hey, I need a deadline of when this is happening. Now, and we need to come to a conclusion of what that's going to be and what it's going to entail and look like for or at that point in time, it's because we can't come to a conclusion that I need to start positioning myself for somewhere else, or go some go a different direction, but we need to have those hard conversations with our employees to hold them accountable.   Johnathan White : We need to have that hard conversation with ourselves, to hold ourselves accountable. And as an industry as a whole, as humans, we suck at that. And it's only gotten worse with technology.   Jimmy Lea : That truth true, 100% certain percent.   Johnathan White : If I was to go back, that's that's what I would do, is have that hard conversation earlier. And realistically, if I did that, I probably would have owned the business before Covid. And, I may probably have already had a second location.   Jimmy Lea : Probably that would be giving you a lot more runway. So for those who are listening in and what you're saying is to have those crucial conversations, those critical conversations, those confrontations, and not be afraid to do it, you need to feel empowered to do it. And you would do it sooner. Any books or, advice that you can give to people to where to look for guidance on having these conversations?   Johnathan White : I mean, I think Josh, with limited leadership. Josh Parnell yeah, he's a great person to talk to about expanding your leadership. And and that obviously with leadership goes along with that. I think that's a great, great place to start. You know, mindsets part of it. So if you're struggling and you don't think you're, you're, if you can get to the point of being profitable or you're not worth getting profitable, you know, rich dad, poor dad, there's like, Simon Sinek makes a lot has a lot of great books.   Johnathan White : You know, you you.   Jimmy Lea : Only golden circle find out to your why.   Johnathan White : Yeah, there's only you. You only know what you know. And that's part of having a training group. And you, you only know what you know. And if there's no where the you're getting somewhere that's going to push you, then you're only going to get to a certain level.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah, yeah. Get into a group that's going to push you get into a group that's going to that. They want you to be better than you are today.   Johnathan White : Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : A couple of books that I'm thinking of. Two, one is, Crucial Conversations. Phenomenal book that helps to guide those conversations so you can have that critical confrontation and not lose your stuff. Yeah. The second book, and I think you probably have read the second book. Chris boss.   Johnathan White : Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Never settle. Never settle the difference. Never negotiate. Never.   Johnathan White : Yes, something like that. I know what you're talking about.   Jimmy Lea : Yeah. Yellow cover. Phenomenal. I need to read, Chris Voss again. That. What a phenomenal book.   Jimmy Lea : All right, lightning round for you, John. One word answer or one sentence answer. And by the way, thank you so much for what you're doing in this industry. Thank you for all the shops that you're coaching and training, the help that you're giving them to assist and elevate and create such a better and brighter future for them.   Jimmy Lea : Thank you for what you're doing, John. I really appreciate it, brother.   Johnathan White : Thanks for having you.   Jimmy Lea : All right, lightning round one tool or system. You'll never give up again.   Jimmy Lea : Devis most common myth customers believe about auto repair.   Johnathan White : That we just plug it in gives us the answer that it's easy. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Best hire you've ever made. And why?   Johnathan White : Best hire. Yeah. It'll be will be one of my master techs. And why he wasn't really sold. I had to really sell them on the business. And, what what I was doing and everything. He came in with the goal of being. And we can only 100, grand a year, and he will be well north of.   Johnathan White : Well, north of that. And congratulations, office. How so? And, I think I'm gonna lose them sooner than I want to, because he's going to pay that off a lot faster. So. But, yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Keep him as long as you can. Right? Even as long as you can. And the more you can have him training, your people are that phenomenal. Okay. We digress. Hardest role to hire for right now service manager.   Johnathan White : So I'm going to run your shop for you can be the the leadership behind it. Yeah. Takes a varies. You have to align with them. You have to communicate with them as the owner. It took me three people.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, I'm glad you found the one one boundary. You you set that improved profit and culture.   Johnathan White :   Johnathan White : That we sell, we don't sell ourselves short. And we sell for what we're worth 100%.   Jimmy Lea : Your favorite metric that predicts a good month.   Johnathan White : Gross profit per hour. And hours per hour.   Jimmy Lea : Love it, love it. That. What's the perfect day? Car count for your shop?   Johnathan White : Right about 20 to 25.   Jimmy Lea : One book or podcast or coach that changed your thinking?   Johnathan White : Oh, Jackets with, gets automotive, which is shop fixed. Coach currently still my coach.   Jimmy Lea : Shout out to Jack.   Johnathan White : The he drilled into me and and, it's been a very productive relationship.   Jimmy Lea : Beautiful. What are you irrationally picky about in the shop?   Johnathan White : The way arrows are written. I don't like one liners, like, diagnose coolant, like radiator leaking, but just it doesn't add value to me. So I like more, slot stories, you can call them, but even if it's simple, it just needs to have more. More than two words.   Jimmy Lea : Yes. Tell the story. Please tell the.   Johnathan White : Story. Yeah.   Jimmy Lea : Oh, I love it. John, you are awesome. Thank you to all you're doing. Thank you to Phil's Pro Auto service. Thank you to pops. Congrats on your retirement. Thank you. And John congrats on what you're doing in the industry bro. Keep it up. Keep it up.   Johnathan White : And I do have to do one little small shout out in January. 31st is Colorado Asa's training Summit. So if you are in the area it's a great way to get training for a technician, an advisor, a manager and an owner.   Jimmy Lea : Yes, yes, everybody in the reach. And if you're in driving distance of, say, Denver, Colorado, you should definitely be there because the training is it's it's the best it's the best that you can get. It is that face to face hands on learning experience that you're looking for as a technician, as a service advisor, a manager or an owner.   Jimmy Lea : Go to these classes, take them. And if you're an owner, take the owner classes, the ownership, the marketing, the leadership. Yeah, I know it's cool to jump in and find out all about that. Fuel injection. The newest, latest, greatest turbos. But come on, man, you're a business owner. Let's let's work on that skill set. Be the business owner.   Jimmy Lea : So, yes, John, thank you for that. Shout out to NASA. Denver, Colorado. Everybody needs to be there is a summit.   Johnathan White : Yes. Say summit January 31st.   Jimmy Lea : Awesome. Thank you so much for doing that, John. Thank you for all you do, brother. Appreciate it.   Johnathan White : All right. Thank you.

183 - Multi-Shop Growth Done Right, Integrity Driven Choices Build Long Term Trust December 11, 2025 - 01:10:46   Show Summary: A San Diego shop owner shares how he grew from technician to three-location operator. He explains why scaling requires new leadership skills, written processes, and empowered managers. The episode covers a simple referral program, the importance of knowing your numbers, and lessons from buying additional shops. It also highlights integrity driven customer service decisions that build long term trust. The conversation closes with a call for more industry collaboration and a major Boys & Girls Club fundraiser.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): John Eppstein, Owner of John's Automotive Care Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – A long-time shop friendship sets up a growth conversation. [00:04:20] – Multi-shop ownership requires a completely different skill set. [00:10:30]  – Early hands-on learning built confidence and work ethic. [00:18:40] – Bad leadership lessons shaped a customer-first mindset. [00:26:10] – More space forced real marketing and operational discipline. [00:33:40] – Referral cards drive trust and repeatable customer growth. [00:43:30] – Acquisitions revealed admin gaps and hidden costs. [00:55:10]  – Processes must live on paper, not in memory. [01:04:40] – Integrity decisions create lifelong customers and loyal teams. [01:12:30] – Industry collaboration improves pricing, quality, and reputation. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hey guys. Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is John Epstein from John's Automotive Care down in San Diego, California. I have had the distinct honor and pleasure of knowing John for a very long time. Jimmy Lea: Many moons. I've watched John grow his business over the years, which I'm very excited for us to be able to have a conversation about even had the deluxe pleasure of spending the night at his house once upon a time when a good buddy was getting married down there in San Diego. Do you remember that, John? Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. The hotels were $600 a night and lucky for me, John did not charge me nearly that much. Right John Eppstein: Close, but not quite close, Jimmy Lea: but not quite. John so thank you for joining me here, this conversation for us today. Thank you. I appreciate you being here, brother. John Eppstein: Absolutely. I always love chatting with you and if I can help the industry out I'm all for it. Jimmy Lea: And that's what the institute's all about, is us locking arms together as an industry Jimmy Lea: To build a better business, a better life, and a better industry. We focus on you and your business because by focusing on you and your business, it provides your business a better life and not just for you, John, for your employees. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. And technicians. And not just for your employees and your technicians. Yeah. Also to their families. Their families your significant others, their significant others, their children, your children. Everyone is benefiting from us having a better business and a better life. And because we've locked arms as an industry, we have a better industry as well. Jimmy Lea: And full disclosure, John Epstein used to be with RLO BLI back in the day. Back in the day. Yep. In fact, I think that's when I first met you, John. I was with Auto Vitals way back then. Yep. And we met down in San Antonio. Yep. At the the big BLI annual meeting, I think that it was. John Eppstein: Yep. Absolutely. John Eppstein: Yeah. The Bottom Line Impact Group was a big part of my business for a very long time, and it brought me from the not so bright technician pretending to be a shop owner, to actually becoming a shop owner. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's true. You don't know what you don't know. And once you get with a coach, there's so much more. Jimmy Lea: One, as you learn that there's so much more you don't know. Yeah, absolutely. Such a process. I love it. Yeah, I love that. We can work together on that. And full disclosure, John is not with the institute currently as a coaching and training. He was with RLO and the institute by RLO. What are you doing these days, John? John Eppstein: We're just working on our business. I've got doing some stuff as a multi shop, we are trying to I mentioned that I was a technician and a good one, and that it wasn't a great. Shop owner. And then I turn into a pretty good shop owner, and now I got three shops and now I'm having to figure out how to become a multi shop owner, which is very different. John Eppstein: Oh, so different. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you, you are taking all these years of training that you have accumulated all this wealth of knowledge and information and now you're disseminating it out to all of your other shops, which is just such an awesome experience for you to be able to do that. And a multiple shop operator, this is like, Luke Underwood talks about going from a three bay shop to his now 10 bay shop, right? Jimmy Lea: It's different business. Oh, absolutely. It's a different skillset. Yes. And for you to go from one shop to multiple shops, it's a different skillset. John Eppstein: Yes. Yeah. Abs absolutely. And it's fixing cars is one thing. Taking care of your customers is another. It really is. And that's, there's a lot of great technicians out there that can take care of somebody's car, but they're not so good taking care of the customer. John Eppstein: Yeah. And but Jimmy Lea: not only are we taking care of our customers, John, we also are taking care of our people. Absolutely. Our people are our biggest asset and we definitely gotta take care of 'em. So I wanna reel this back a little bit here, John. I have the distinct pleasure of visiting your half a shop. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And we call it a half a shop. 'cause it, it is literally what, a hundred yards from your current shop that you have there in San John Eppstein: It's one block away. Literally. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. One block away. It's a two. Is it two bays or one bay? John Eppstein: There's really no bays 'cause everything's outside. But we have four lifts outside, 'cause in, in San Diego we have horrific weather. John Eppstein: Currently it's December, whatever, and it's 80 degrees. So I'm not sure how we've survived this week 'cause it's so hot, but so hot. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You fluctuate between, what, 72 and 80? John Eppstein: Yeah. Give or take a little. We're able to work outside and, down here. The building, it's a weird setup but it worked really long. John Eppstein: It's Jimmy Lea: a weird setup and if anybody ever gets an opportunity, if you're in San Diego and you get the distinct pleasure of stopping by John's shop, ask him to point and just walk down there to look at the old shop the way where it is down there. How did you find it? How did you get started Here you are a technician. Jimmy Lea: What's that story look like for you getting started, John? John Eppstein: Let's see, when I was born, all right, I won't go with that. I won't go with that version. Jimmy Lea: You were born with a wrench in your hand. Is that where you're John Eppstein: going? It's funny that you ask so my dad was a professional engineer that worked for General Dynamics and his job, he was a rocket scientist, and I can say that it's just, it is what it is. John Eppstein: One of, one of the things he worked on was the first man spaceship that went to the moon. He worked on F 14 fighters and cool stuff like that, but he was very mechanical minded and so I naturally became, I was just, I was born with the mechanical sense in me and it interested me. I would help 'em fix cars. John Eppstein: When I said I'd help 'em fix cars, I would hold the flashlight and we would always get in the argument over. I can't see. I would respond with I can, and of course he was the one working on the car, so it was probably more important that he could see. But so that's how I got started. And I bought a car that was a piece of junk 69 Cougar 3 51 Cleveland. John Eppstein: It went really fast until it blew up. And my dad had a friend that worked at a gas station and he called up Roy. He said, Hey Roy, can you help John put an engine in his car? So we towed it up it's outside of San Diego, up in the mountains. So we towed it up there and Roy walks me over to his little toolbox and he says, have at it. John Eppstein: Let me know what you need. I'm like, cool, so I went out and I ripped the engine out and every once in a while I'd have a question and I'd be like, Hey, what I do here? And he'd tell me. And so off I went. And three days later, the new engine's in, it's running. I drive off down the road. Two days later, the owner of the gas station calls and says, Hey, you want a job pump and gas? John Eppstein: And I'm like. Right on. Sure. But I didn't have a job at the time, so I showed up on the first day and I'm like, all right, what do you want me to do? He says, go put belts on that car over there. He had been watching me work and for the green guy that I was, he was very happy with how he did it. So I managed his gas station and fixed cars for a long time and he was an ama amazing guy. Jimmy Lea: This is hilarious. This is pre-internet. This is pre YouTube. This is, yes. Take it apart and figure it out. Absolutely. And you did this on a cougar? John Eppstein: Yeah. 69 Cougar. It was 30, 37 different shades of primer gray. Jimmy Lea: Beautiful John Eppstein: People would look at it and laugh and then we'd race and they'd cry at the end because I was always way out in front of them. John Eppstein: Yeah, I only race it once or twice and we'll just, we'll stick with that story there. The story. Jimmy Lea: We're sticking with it. Yeah. The only once or twice that can be proven and yes. Everything else is, we just don't talk about fight club. Yes, exactly. That's amazing. And so he offered you, what are you, 15, 16, 17 and I was, John Eppstein: I was 16 at the time. John Eppstein: Yeah. I've been full-time in this, in industry since I was 16 actually I take that back. I think I was seven, I think I was 17 at the time. Jimmy Lea: Probably your senior year. 17, 18, somewhere around there. And you were probably getting half day release time to go down to the shop and work. Are you doing that or is that not a program at your school? John Eppstein: It was not a program. I actually, I broke my leg when I was 16 and I was out of I missed the first three the last three months of the first semester. Second three months of the second semester. 'cause I broke I was playing soccer and I had a pin and a plate put in. And then they put me on Vicodin, which I had no clue what Vicodin was. John Eppstein: But turns out it made me really stupid. I couldn't concentrate, I couldn't think. And so I missed six months of school. Because when I went, I still didn't, I was on the Vicodin. I didn't comprehend. Jimmy Lea: No, John Eppstein: that I wasn't processing until I stopped taking it one day or I stopped taking it. And then one day I took one and it was like, whoa, I don't understand the book. John Eppstein: I just read. And so I fell behind and so I started working full-time and going to school, in the evenings after that. Oh, got it. It was it was good. It worked out well for me. Like I said, the guy was a great, he was a great great mentor for me. He, we did things right. John Eppstein: I learned, I knew the right things to do with people, he instilled, you do the work right and you take care of your customers. And so he ended up got, he got sick. The doctor said, okay, you're gonna have a heart attack if you don't sell. He sold the guy that owned it or that bought it was not a honest man, and I worked for him for one month before I figured that out and moved on. John Eppstein: Went to work across, literally across the street at a gas station across the street. 'cause the guy knew me. And I would probably still be with him today. I couldn't actually 'cause he's passed on, but if he would've been nice to me, I probably never would've left working there. But it was always a battle with him. John Eppstein: I, I took ownership of the customers. These are, one of my customers called and he would argue with me. They're not your fucking customers. Oh, I shouldn't have said that, but that's what he would say. They're not your customers. They're mine. Okay. Whatever you say, Don. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They come John Eppstein: in and they ask for me because I'm the one that's here and I'm the one that takes care of 'em. John Eppstein: And it wasn't like I was trained to steal his customers. I just. It's what you, it's what you want your people to do. You want 'em to take ownership of their job and their customers, and he didn't understand that part. So Jimmy Lea: I love that. And for historical accuracy. John, we'll let you say that's, thank you. Jimmy Lea: You were quoting that was a quote, John Eppstein: quote, a hundred percent. Jimmy Lea: So Don Don had the shop across the street. You probably took a lot of your customers with you because they saw that, oh, hey, wait, John's here across the street and he's not over here anymore. He is over there. John Eppstein: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people followed and then like, when I worked for Don and I eventually moved on. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So what does that look like? Are you like, dude, I am done with you. Peace. I'm out, and now you're looking for a shop, or, I'm smarter than that. John Eppstein: I may not look smarter than that, but I am smarter than that. You were off the Odin? Yes, I was off of Vicodin by then. I always and once I figured out what it did to me, I never, I've never touched, I never touched it again. John Eppstein: I wanted no part good for you not being able to process things. But good for Jimmy Lea: you. John Eppstein: I started looking for a shop and I actually looked for five years for a shop to move into because I wanted to stay in my, in the area that I had al that I was already in. And I looked, my tool guy said, Hey, this guy's got this shop down the road and he wants to retire. John Eppstein: You should go talk to him. I'm like, all right, cool. So I went down and we had a great conversation. He says, all right, I'm not ready to retire, but I'll rent you half of my shop. And I'm like, awesome. This is a match made in heaven. And then I moved in and a week later I realized he was a. Pc not a nice guy. John Eppstein: Got it. Jimmy Lea: Yes. He was a part of the Don family, is that what you're saying? John Eppstein: No. Yes. In a roundabout way. Although he was actually worse than Don. 'cause Jimmy Lea: oh Jimmy Lea: gosh. John Eppstein: He was a retired military guy. He was a gunner's mate. John Eppstein: He only did engines. He put engines and things. And I remember standing, him walking out to meet one of his little lady customers in the middle of the parking lot, talking to her for about 30 seconds and then yelling at her. John Eppstein: What the f are you thinking? Jimmy Lea: Oh, no. John Eppstein: Yes. So that's the type of person. Yeah he he's thinking he's still in the military, is how I Jimmy Lea: Oh, and he thought everybody else was in the military too. Yes. Wait, so I'm not adding up this timeline here. You were 17 at the one gas station. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Alright. And then John Eppstein: 17 working for Gary. I worked for Gary for three years. Oh wow. Went across the street to work for Don. I worked for him for almost 10 years, Jimmy Lea: dude. Oh my gosh. I thought it was one month. Yeah. John Eppstein: No. The guy I worked for one month was, it was the first place and I just stayed there, figured out he was not a good person. John Eppstein: And I moved on. So moved across the street 10 years. We actually moved from the town we were in to, from Alpine down to San Diego. And it's in the neighborhood where I'm at now. Okay. And so yes, I worked for him for about 10 years. And then come 1998 is when I opened my shop. John Eppstein: And it's ironic, it took me about 10 years to figure out that I actually started my business on April Fool's Day. I haven't quite decided who the joke was on, was it on me or was it on somebody else, but Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. John Eppstein: Yeah. So I went into his place and the sad part is he was really a nice guy. John Eppstein: He had a good heart. Jimmy Lea: The gunner? John Eppstein: Yes. Okay. Until he was fre mad, frustrated, upset. And then he just, he just I, I saw him give the shirt off his back to some people and then, people that he knew, he tended to be a little bit harder on. And so I literally. After two years, I talked to the landlord of the place where I was at, and he owned the property next door, literally next door. John Eppstein: And I asked him, I said, can I move in? And he says, that would be awesome. So I told Bill and he said a lot of words, I can't repeat, you're ugly. I never wanna see you again. And so he put up a barrier across the fence so he wouldn't have to see me ever again. Jimmy Lea: No, you were dead to him. Yes. John Eppstein: I was dead to him. John Eppstein: So I was there for two years and it was a very long two years by the way. And so then I moved literally next door. And it was not. And that's my half shop now. Ironically enough, Jimmy Lea: you still have it, John Eppstein: No, I'll finish the story. Oh, of course. You'll, it'll, you'll crack up about it. John Eppstein: So I moved next door and it wasn't set up for automotive. I had to tear out concrete, pour new concrete. I built some a covering put racks in and all of that. And it was a weird setup. And so that was, I finally hired, hired some people. I had a technician and a helper. One of the guys that still works for me today came to work for me. John Eppstein: There. Whoa. 20, 25 years later, he is still working for me. So we had an office space. We had the service advisor area. I wrote service during the day. I would fix cars at night. My guys would fix cars during the day. So I remember we had a zuzu trooper that needed an engine, and the guy wanted to do the engine and the transmission. John Eppstein: And so everybody went home at the end of the day. And I went out and I pulled the engine out. And they come in the next day and they're like, what happened here? Jimmy Lea: I'm like, John Eppstein: oh, I don't know. I didn't see a thing, and so then that night everybody goes home, I pull the tranny out, I, I take the engine apart, and they come back the next day and they're like, it wasn't going on. John Eppstein: And of course they really knew what was going on. But, so I did this whole job. Nobody ever saw me work on it. It just it, that's how, where I worked 16, 18 hours a day and, it was cool. My, my guys would struggle with something, a car sometimes, and they would go home. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And John Eppstein: the next day they'd come in and it would be done either done or at least past the part that they couldn't figure out, Jimmy Lea: oh wow. They'd John Eppstein: have a broken bolt or they got something they couldn't, they couldn't do this or couldn't do that. And so I would get in and just give 'em that little push. John Eppstein: And they'd come in, the first time it happened, they were like, almost crying. They were so excited, they're like, oh, I didn't wanna come to work today 'cause of this. And it's done. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. So you must have got really good at tapping bolts, huh? John Eppstein: Oh, yeah. Yeah. All that weird stuff. John Eppstein: I I took care of pretty well, so yes, I was at one point I had 23 ASC certifications my, my knowledge of repairs, that was very high. Like I mentioned, I was a good technician Jimmy Lea: that's awesome. John Eppstein: And so when I was at the first place. People just came to me. I remember one of my, one of the guys from the, that used to come to me at the gas station came in and he said, he called me, he says, dude, I need you to look at my vehicle. John Eppstein: I took it into the old shop and they did brakes. And I got it back and the pedal was gonna the floor. So I called him up, I said, Hey, my pedal's going to the floor. And the guy went off on me, how dare you, my work, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, that's, that's okay. You can bring it here. And he brought it down. John Eppstein: I looked at it and I don't remember what it was. It's something simple. I fixed it. And, he was a great customer for the next 20 plus years till he retired. But it, it's it's interesting how that piece where you take care of people, whether it's your employees or your customers, is super important. John Eppstein: 'cause a broken car, Jimmy Lea: yes, John Eppstein: it's a problem, but there's all often other problems that are associated with that car being broken. It's, they're not so much mad that. Car's broke down. It's the car's broke down. Now I can't pick up my kids. The car's broke down. I can't take grandma to her doctor's appointment. John Eppstein: You know what whatever it is. And yeah, Jimmy Lea: We're in a relationship business, John. We just happen to work on cars. John Eppstein: Yes, absolutely. And we gotta remember that we have lots of customers. We have the customers who bring the cars in, and then we have the customers who are working back and fix the cars, Jimmy Lea: Uhhuh, because they're John Eppstein: technically customers as well. John Eppstein: Uhhuh and the service advisors has to marry those two together without actually getting them together. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: And that's such a. A key piece to it in a lot of places, I mentioned Don, that wasn't nice to me. If he would've pieced that together, that Oh, I should probably take care of John because not only does he fix cars, but when I'm not here, he runs the gas station. John Eppstein: He runs, yeah, he runs the business. Come on, there's a problem. There's a problem out front. He goes and takes care of it. There's too many customers for the one night guy that moves super slow, he goes out and takes care of it. Jimmy Lea: Yep. John Eppstein: So those are things, and he didn't even have to say thank you all the time. John Eppstein: He just needed to not be a dick all the time. And I would've been happy. Jimmy Lea: So true. So you're in this half location next door to the gunny. Yeah. And how did you find John's Auto Care where you are now? Which I've been in, and it looks like you added on and added on to that location as well. John Eppstein: That is a great, that is also a great story. So down the alley, we've already established that it's one block away, right? Yeah. Was scenes automotive and it had been there for many years. And in fact the owner of Scenes Automotive was at one time the state president for A-S-C-C-A. Got a good little tie in there. John Eppstein: So he one day comes walking down and he says, John, I'm ready to retire. I'm moving to North Carolina. I'm, I need to slow down and I'm gonna become a teacher at UTI Tech, which is a NASCAR school. Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. John Eppstein: I'm like, cool, because I'm gonna sell my business to one of two people and you're one of them. John Eppstein: And I said, don't look any further. I need the space. I will take it. Oh yeah. By the way, how much do you want for it? Okay. Yeah, no problem. No problem. I'll take it. Okay. And I paid them way more than the VA than the business was worth because they had a race car here. It's a big shop. And so the bigger half of the shop was dedicated to the race car. John Eppstein: Okay. And the other smaller part, they still took care of customers. So at one point they did a fairly decent amount of business, but they lost interest and it petered out. But for me it was worth the money. Okay. Jimmy Lea: So John Eppstein: I moved up to the new shop 2003. I had a friend that owned a shop in a little strip mall way in the back, no parking. John Eppstein: He did foreign cars and weird stuff. And I'm like, hey Charlie, I'm moving. Would you like to move into my facility? He's yes. So he moved in. I moved over. By the way, Napa. Came down on a Saturday, they brought their trucks and their lifts and all that. And we literally moved the entire shop in four hours. Jimmy Lea: We had John Eppstein: my people, me, the Napa guys, the Napa trucks, the last thing we moved was my toolbox, and we pushed it down the alley, one block over to the new shop. That was like the last thing that, that, that went over. But it's part of that whole collaboration of, the Napa guys were like, John Eppstein: And at that point I wasn't a huge customer. John Eppstein: I was a little guy. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jimmy Lea: You were a little guy down the alley even. And I know that run from your old half shop to the new shop is a slight incline. So pushing that toolbox was quite the feet. Jimmy Lea: And I know that your driveway in. Yes. We John Eppstein: had to get a good run on that. See, the good news is I used to play soccer, so I got good leg, I got good leg muscles, and we, Jimmy Lea: oh, there you go. Jimmy Lea: I John Eppstein: think I did, I think there was like five of us that pushed it. It was, if you were like, on the outside looking in, you're probably laughing going, what are these fools doing? Oh, Jimmy Lea: a hundred percent. You know that somebody has a video somewhere of you. Yes. Foolish man. Pushing. Yeah. Okay. So you're in the new location now, and you've got Charlie there. Jimmy Lea: What happened to the landlord in the old location? John Eppstein: The gunny guy or the no, gunnys next door. He put up a fence. Jimmy Lea: You're dead to him. Yeah, John Eppstein: It's funny because the landlord earned, owned both of those pieces of property. So he's he owned the first one that I was in. He owned the second one that I was in. John Eppstein: So Charlie moved in behind me. He was happy as could be. He did it, people came there looking for me. He'd sent 'em right up the alley to me, which I knew he would do. He's, he had his clients. He was an air cooled Volkswagen guy. Oh, nice. And then he did a lot of weird older stuff. So it was a good, it was a good partnership. John Eppstein: We moved in the first week I realized, holy crud, I do not know how to market and advertise 'cause I've never had to, we can now do twice as much in half the time because we have space. We don't have to move 17 cars to get the one in and work on it. And so that's when I joined the bottom Line Impact Group and figured out just how stupid I was. John Eppstein: I remember I had, I did a little advertisement in a local newspaper and I brought the advertisement in and I showed it to, to John Effler, my faci, my facilitator. And he looked at it for about 10 seconds and he crumpled it up. He threw it in the middle of the room and went over and jumped on it. And this is the worst piece of marketing I have ever seen. Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. There's a wake up call John Eppstein: and I'm like, tell us how you really feel, John. And actually, I didn't know him that well yet, but it was pretty bad. It, it for what I was trying to get customers and it was more of a, a top of mind marketing and advertising. So as we, as as I know now, there's different kinds of marketing for different things you're trying to to do. John Eppstein: So true. So it was pretty funny. And so then I had to learn how to market and advertise. And, I figured out that, oh, a referral program, that's a pretty great piece of marketing. Everybody that comes in already trusts you because somebody sent them to you. And it's one of the biggest things that a lot of shops miss out on that piece. John Eppstein: 'cause when I first started it, and I would ask customers for their referral, I got two common answers. You always look so busy. I didn't think you needed more work. And number two, I was my favorite. So if I refer my friends and family, are you still gonna have time to work on my car? Those were the two common responses that I got when I started asking people to send referrals over. John Eppstein: Oh my gosh. That's a riot. Yeah. But those are things that people, a lot of people don't even have a program and others have 'em, but it's not a formal one. They don't ask. They just, if somebody sends a referral, they'll send 'em a thank you or whatever, you gotta ask your customers. But, Jimmy Lea: so what are John Eppstein: you doing today? John Eppstein: What's your referral program today? What do you do? It's very much it was a long time ago. Yeah. Originally I had little certificates that. We printed, I printed as I needed. Now it's on the back of our business card. And it's, it's just a real simple, we ask people, Hey, you have any friends, family or coworkers you think could benefit from our services? John Eppstein: If so, please give them one of our referral cards. Just make sure we can read your name on it, and when they come in, they're gonna get $40 off and we're gonna send you a thank you letter and you're gonna get a free service the next time you come in. And we've had people that haven't paid for oil changes in years because they send us so many people and we're good with that. John Eppstein: It's a just a no brainer, Jimmy Lea: that's beautiful. John. I love that program. I love your referral program. And I'm also guessing that you did some pretty good analysis here of the program to work the cost of it in, because if any Joe Public were to take your idea right now and say, oh, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna implement it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it could put them outta business. Potentially. Yeah, potentially. Yeah. They need to analyze their numbers to know, can I sustain this type of a referral program? Yeah. Whatever your program is you've got to know your numbers. How important is it to know your numbers for you, John? Yeah. Oh, it's super important. John Eppstein: You gotta know your, your KPIs for the business. You gotta know, bookkeeping is important, yeah. And and that's something a lot of people struggle with. I struggle with it. I'm, I, by no means am I an expert on the ba, the backend, but I know enough to, you pay attention to your expenses and there, there's a lot, the only way to improve your outcome is to charge more or pay out less. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: Pretty straightforward. But you gotta know your Jimmy Lea: expenses. John Eppstein: Yeah. Yeah. But you gotta know your numbers. If you don't know your numbers you can't do, you can't do any of that Jimmy Lea: oh, yeah. Good for you. Congratulations. That's awesome. So I also know that you have purchased a couple of other businesses as well. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No. Back to your shop that you're at now. It does look like it's been added and added, but that must be the race car side and the maintenance side. John Eppstein: So the business Okay. Where you walk in the front door to the office, that building has been here for 75 years, I'm guessing. Jimmy Lea: Whoa. John Eppstein: It's a metal building, very old. So there's two pieces of property. They're put together as one somewhere before I got it somewhere, be back, probably back when scenes was here. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They John Eppstein: decided to add a building to next to the building and so they got some plans and they. Built the second half, so to speak, made outta brick. John Eppstein: It was supposed to be level ground. It's not exactly. It's, there's like a three foot ramp in the center of the shop that you have to go up. And if you look at the roof on the new side, it doesn't start higher in the middle and then go down, out outside. It's just the opposite. So somebody did something wrong with the plans again, long before I came along. John Eppstein: So I just was a recipient of, and we make it work. It's not the worst thing, but it would've been nice had they got it right. We'll just say, we'll just say that Jimmy Lea: oh, clearly. Yeah, for sure. That's hilarious. John Eppstein: And then we've added lifts outside again, sunny San Diego. We can do that. It. Taking up concrete, pouring concrete, getting it level. John Eppstein: We added three lifts outside. We have a big four poster that for big trucks, and we have a couple of two posters outside. So we technically have 14 bays at the main chop and the four at the half shop. So we technically have 18, I guess 18 bays. So Jimmy Lea: yeah, you're in the garage, Mahal arena of shops. You've got a lot of bays, brother. John Eppstein: We, we do. It's older building, the con, it's not the prettiest, but we keep it clean. People come in and they're like, where's all the dirt? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: We try to keep it clean. Jimmy Lea: Where's the dirt? Where's the dust? Where's the oil? Yeah. It doesn't even smell like a, an automotive repair shop, right? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You do a very good job at keeping it pristine and clean, so thank you. Compliments to you. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jimmy Lea: That's cool. Yeah. Okay yeah the, somebody built your building backwards. John Eppstein: Yes. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And you're the recipient of it. You weren't the implementer of it. John Eppstein: No. Jimmy Lea: Oh, John Eppstein: man. And remember where I came from, it was even worse off, it, it was not set up for automotive at all. John Eppstein: No. I just made it work. And you just, you make, you just make do with what you got. Not everybody can have that perfectly laid out shop. That runs as efficiently as possible. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: You do what you can with what you got, and then it sounds like you've done a phenomenal job. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So when you added La Mesa. It was La Mesa first. John Eppstein: Yep. La Mesa first. So for 20 years I swore I would never have more than one chop. Jimmy Lea: You. You know what happens when you swear, don't you? John Eppstein: Yes, absolutely. I get, gets me in trouble. I swore not gonna do it. Never gonna happen. Not even possible. Don't wanna go down that road. John Eppstein: And then one day I think I tripped when I got out of bed and I hit my head. Oh. And like the next month I owned a set, I owned my second shop Jimmy Lea: and somebody slipped you a Vicodin. That's something. I John Eppstein: think so. You're right. Absolutely. And it was it was a guy that I knew he taught. At Qui Macka College, which by the way, I am on the foundation board for Qui Macka Grossmont College. John Eppstein: Another one of the fun things that I get to do my other jobs. And they've got an amazing automotive program there. And so the guy that owned the shop taught there, and he just wanted to teach. And the, his shop was going down down. He used to sell parts, which they'd gotten out of. They still had a big inventory. John Eppstein: Yeah. And he's he, it is May 1st he says, I want to be outta here by the end of the month. And I hadn't even thought about owning a second shop before that. So there was no plan in place. There was nothing. It was just if I'm ever gonna do it, it was the right price. And so we struck a deal and I that was when I started learning how to be a multi shop owner. John Eppstein: We stuck with the same name. The John's automotive care name. His old, his building was nasty. It was just, it Jimmy Lea: needed a very good pressure washer. John Eppstein: If you went to his website, he had pictures of mgs on it. We'll just go with that. Okay. Oh, so they were a very they were in an, a weird import specialty Yeah. Jimmy Lea: British import. John Eppstein: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so we quickly turned that off, got our, got a web, got our website going, painted it, our colors, brightened it up, livened it up, and good. It, that's been a lot of fun. And that was 2018 and then 2022 fellow shop owner, fellow, A SCC, a shop member. John Eppstein: Yeah, it's time we had issues with his broker that he literally, I call, I'd been talking to him on and off for a couple years, hey, when are you gonna sell? Are you really wanna say? Yeah, someday. And then I randomly call him in 2020. Was it 2022? I think it's 2022. I'm like, Hey, you ready to sell? John Eppstein: And he is quiet. Oh yeah. I signed with a broker today. Yeah. Literally today. No. And I'm like, you did, dude, why didn't you call me? No kidding. And we had never really had a serious I didn't offer him anything. It was just No, because it wasn't a Jimmy Lea: serious conversation. Yeah. John Eppstein: It wasn't a serious conversation. John Eppstein: And the broker screwed us. He he tried to screw us. He sent over a document for me to sign a seven page document. Very first paragraph. I was supposed to sign that the broker introduced me. To the shop. Jimmy Lea: Yes. John Eppstein: Which Jimmy Lea: no you didn't. John Eppstein: No you didn't. And then there was six pages explaining why it's okay for the broker to represent both the seller and the buyer and all the things that the seller needed to do for the broker. Jimmy Lea: Seller needed to do For the broker. John Eppstein: Yeah. The requirements that they had to do. And you had to do this, and if you do this, you owe me that and you owe do this, you owe me that. Okay. That's, that leaves one page. So maybe on the last page it would have what the broker needs to do for the seller. Not a chance. John Eppstein: There was nothing in there about that Jimmy Lea: For the buyer. You, 'cause you're the buyer John Eppstein: or No, for the guy. For Steve. The guy selling Jimmy Lea: the shop. Oh. So was there also a clause in there? 'cause I've seen this every once in a while that says, I represent you for the rest of life John Eppstein: Close. It was only a period of time, however. John Eppstein: Anybody that had come to the table during the time that they were, partnered together, if it ever sold to any of those people, they got their payment. Jimmy Lea: Oh they get another Benny. John Eppstein: And they claimed me and he ended up having to pay them at the end of the day. He probably could have fought it and won, but he didn't. John Eppstein: He was tired of the whole process and so he paid them. Oh, sure. Their whatever, 25, $30,000, whatever it was. Oh, John Eppstein: it was pretty sad. It was it really sucked because they didn't bring 'em a single client in the six months in, in their No. In their contract. But yeah, that was that was very interesting. John Eppstein: It's yeah. So Jimmy Lea: Now you're a multiple shop operator. You've got you, you started at two and 18, and now in 22 you've got three. Yep. So you're at the end of COVID. Yep. That you're buying this third shop what have, what did, what have you had to develop as a new skillset to run multiple shops? John Eppstein: Whew. A lot. There's you need to be a good leader with one shop, and you need to be an amazing leader with multiple shops. Because the farther away that I get from the end results, which is the consumer coming in and checking out, the harder it is to share my message and to share my beliefs and, and that sort of thing. John Eppstein: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So how often are you sharing your vision with your internal employees? John Eppstein: We do it as often as we can. I have a general manager that, that spends more time going around to the shops. I come to the main shop majority of the time. I've always been good with my people. I get here, I walk through the shop and I say, Hey, how's it going? John Eppstein: What's going on? Everything good? How's your weekend? And so when I go to the other shops and I spend a little more time, it's Hey, how's it going? Need anything is anything, what's going on in your life? And it it helps instill that, there's a person. John Eppstein: There's a person that's, yeah, he's your boss, but he he cares somewhat. Unlike my old boss Don, that, wanted to argue with me about, the good things that I was doing. But yeah, you've gotta learn, you lead a very different way, you need to have processes in place and they can't just be here, you can't be in your brain. John Eppstein: It's okay to start there, but you gotta put 'em on paper 'cause you gotta share it with people. Yeah. You can't just ex, you can't fire somebody. How did you not know that was what you're supposed to do? 'Cause you never told me. At the end of the day. John Eppstein: So you gotta have those processes in place and for me it's my job is to enable and inspire my people. That's what a good owner does, is he en enables to. It enables your employees to do their job. You inspire them to do it well. You give 'em the tools to do it right. And at the end of the day, if you can do that, there's a good chance for success. John Eppstein: And it's not a guarantee you're gonna have success, but it's a way better chance if you do that, when you start micromanaging people you know that it takes its toll on the person doing the micromanaging plus the people that are doing it. And I'm not saying you just let people run amuck. 'Cause we've had that where some of our admin ran amuck for a while and we had to, this ain't working. John Eppstein: Again, that learning curve of what you need to do and what you not need to do. So it's okay to make mistakes. You learn from 'em, you grow and. Making sure that your people have the tools is super important. And I'm not talking the wrenches and the screwdrivers. It's the service advisors need the tools to be able to take care of the customer. John Eppstein: If your desire is customer service at the at its finest, your service advisors need to make the call. Hey, we're not gonna charge you today because whatever, we're gonna put you in a rental car and we're not gonna charge you. They gotta be able to make that call, if they have to stop and come and ask every time, it just it doesn't make for success. Jimmy Lea: No, it sucks the life outta your day too. Yes. I love that you are en enabling and equipping your inspire. And enable. Inspire. Yeah. And then you're giving them space to let them perform that this is why you hired them. You didn't hire them to micromanage them. You hired them. For them to make decisions. Jimmy Lea: They're intelligent humans, they're intelligent people, and they know what is best for the customer and the client. Yeah. They also have to are looking out for John's auto automotive care. 'cause they've gotta protect the business as well. John Eppstein: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So that we have a job to come to tomorrow. John Eppstein: Yep. Absolutely. And that's what I always, that's what I always tell my people. John Eppstein: It's, if we're gonna take care of our customer, which is job one, what is the first thing that we have to do? We have to be here tomorrow. Yeah. If we're not here tomorrow, we can't take care of our customers. Yeah. And of course, tomorrow isn't just tomorrow, it's next week, next month, next year. John Eppstein: 10 years down the road. That's right. I, I. I had a friend that got an engine somewhere and 'cause it was half the price of what mine was. And I was honest with him. I'm like, you're probably gonna regret this. And he says, yeah, I know I probably am. And sure enough, he, it was a little Toyota truck and motor, it started leaking. John Eppstein: He went back and they did something. And then that was at month three. At month nine, Val head gasket went bad. Goes down there, doors are closed, they're out of business. No one Oh no, no warranty. No. And that's a huge, that's a huge part of it, sure. He got it cheaper and he knew that was gonna happen, and he's a real, he is a real good friend of mine. John Eppstein: I worked with him actually at the gas station years ago. John Eppstein: He's my handyman. And he is I knew I shouldn't do that. And I'm like, I should too, but I couldn't make you not do it, and so then you had to, then you had to put another motor in it at that point. So Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That, so he paid for a motor and a half Uhhuh. Jimmy Lea: Yes, he did. Shoot, that's too bad. That's hilarious. Yep. Yeah. Speaking of being here tomorrow, and, I if the shop he would've gone to originally, if it was a Napa Auto Care Center, there may have been something you could have done to try and help him, but chances are that's not stuff that would've qualified as a Napa Auto. John Eppstein: Exactly. Yeah. The, the Napa Auto Care shops are. They're good shops. Jimmy Lea: You, they are good shops and I do appreciate the Napa warranty, the guarantee. The nationwide guarantee. Nationwide. Nationwide. That's where I take all my trucks, all my cars, they're always going to a Napa auto Care center because of that nationwide warranty guarantee. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I'm up and down I 15 all the time, and I just, I need to know that I'm taken care of, no matter where I am, where I'm going. I've got that reassuring. Yeah. Looking down the road, you were talking about being around for tomorrow and next week and next month and next year. Speaking of the future, what is the future for John's Automotive Care? John Eppstein: That's a great question. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Our hope is that we'll be around for a while. Maybe add another shop or two. Again, you never know. The the last acquisition went a little rougher than I had hoped, and you end up costing a lot more money in the long run. John Eppstein: Just so you know, if you go to get an SBA loan and they think you have too much money, they will not loan you any money, just so you know. Okay. Don't ask me how, don't ask me how I know, but I know. Oh, we know how, I know. Needless to say, I had planned on getting a loan for that acquisition and when it was unable to, and so I ended up having to write a check and of course I was. John Eppstein: I had brought people in, manager, service advisor to train beforehand in the process instead of taking one month, took six months. So I had, three extra people on payroll for six months, which was a very large piece, investment. So things don't always go as, as you plan and, sometimes, it might have been smarter to walk away from, walk away from it instead of, doing the way I did. John Eppstein: But I've always been one to, it's good opportunity. I'll make it work, I'll make it happen. It'll be a little struggle here and there for a while. And then, when we added the third shop the burden on the admin side became. Bigger. And that's when we really realized that our admin wasn't set up really well for where we were headed. John Eppstein: So we're working, we're in the middle of revamping that right now, and once we get that all figured out and running smooth, then we can start looking at, do we add number four, number five, four and a half, five and a half, whatever. Jimmy Lea: So what does the next acquisition look like? What are you what are what? Jimmy Lea: Your radars are up, your sensors are out. You got spidey sensors going on. Yes. What does that next location have as the bare bones that you would consider? John Eppstein: For me, the, my main shop is very large. My other two shops are smaller. They're seven eight bays. We have two service advisors, three technicians, one helper. John Eppstein: That's a good. A good size shop they can run, it takes a little less to run that, obviously my main shop takes a lot of resources. So anything from that size to bigger, I don't think I'm gonna go for another 1820 bay shop, but you never know. I never say never. John Eppstein: If something presents itself I've had a lot of opportunities to buy big shops and little shops. Some of 'em are just too little. You, so I have, so what's Jimmy Lea: too little for you, John? John Eppstein: Anything less, since six bays is probably 'cause you really, you've gotta have a manager, in place, especially Jimmy Lea: for you as a multiple shop operator you need to have that autonomy and that structure. Jimmy Lea: Yes. That allows for a bit bigger business. 'cause there's a lot of shops out there. Today that would love to have six bays, but they're not a six bay shop. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They would love Jimmy Lea: to have eight bays, but they're not an eight bay shop. Jimmy Lea: No. Jimmy Lea: Those eight bay shops are a little bit fewer and farther between. John Eppstein: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: When you draw that line that says, okay, seven or eight bays minimum. Yeah. That's what you gotta look at. John Eppstein: Yeah. You gotta have a, you, it's good to have a plan in place. Yeah. Okay. I've already told you how the, shop number two, there was zero planning. Yeah. And it's almost eight years later, we're still going. John Eppstein: We're profitable. Jimmy Lea: Oh, good. John Eppstein: It's it, you can make it happen, but as you, the larger you grow, you have to do less of that and more planning and putting things in place to to be successful. 'cause at the end of the day, you get too big and you just start, you start losing, you lose focus on the first shop. John Eppstein: And it becomes unprofitable. 'cause you're paying attention to two and three and then, now four and five are suffering and, but oh, now I gotta go fix one. So you try to start fixing one and then four, five and six start going the wrong way. And it just, so people. You gotta have good people, it's so true. You can't pull something like this off by yourself. Jimmy Lea: No, you can't. You've gotta have good managers in place. And these managers have to have bought into the vision. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jimmy Lea: And they have to be able to have the capacity and the ability to disseminate that down the road, to the service advisors, to the technicians. Jimmy Lea: That this is a daily grind. This is a daily incentive that we're working today so that we can come back tomorrow and our customers need to know that we're gonna be here. For the long haul. John Eppstein: Yeah. And take care of them when something happens that John Eppstein: And we're, we have stepped up in taking care of customer's cars that were outta warranty because we put an alternator on. John Eppstein: We, we have a three or 36,000 mile warranty we put an alternator on. They go 14,000 miles. It's four years. Y fails. It's not supposed to fail in 14,000 miles. It's outta warranty. We don't have to fix it, but we will still step in, in cases like that. We'll, yeah. We'll take care of it. We, one of the first thing, first warranty jobs I ever did. John Eppstein: I just moved in here. I had a customer from a long time. He brought me his Ford motor home and his radi, it sits most of the time and the radiator rotted out of course. So we put a radiator in it. My technician drives it, comes back, parks it, we call him. He comes and picks it up. He's driving it home. John Eppstein: He gets just about home and the transmission goes out. Jimmy Lea: No. John Eppstein: So he tows it back and we're like, he's yeah, it just sits, it must've gone out. Okay. So we quote him a price on a Ford rebuilt transmission, 4,000, $5,000, whatever it is. So the guy that had put the radiator in, we had let him go. John Eppstein: You'll know why in a second we let him go. When he installed the radiator, he didn't put the nuts that you're supposed to put in on the cooler lines. He put the cooler line, mashed it into the radiator. And so the co the radiator or so, or the transmission fluid wasn't flowing. Jimmy Lea: Oh no. That's John Eppstein: what caused the transmission to fail. Jimmy Lea: Oh, no. John Eppstein: And so I, my, I just got a new service advisor at the time. The guy's now my general manager, and he's what do we do? I says, there's only one thing we can do. We put a transmission in and we give it back to him. And he's we're gonna do what? So am I supposed to chart? John Eppstein: No, we caused the problem. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, John Eppstein: but it's got 50,000 miles on it. I don't care. We cause a problem. We're taking care of the customer. So we put a transmission in. We don't, we haven't told the customer this at this point. So he comes in with his checkbook out. His name's John by the way. And he's how much do I owe you? John Eppstein: And he's here's your keys. He says, okay, how much do I owe you? You don't owe us anything. What do you mean? So we explained to him what happened, and he literally looked at us and said, you realize that if you hadn't have said anything, I would've never known. That it was your fault. And of course my response was yes, but we did. Jimmy Lea: But we would know Uhhuh. John Eppstein: Yes. Yeah. And so free transmission, I didn't have the money at the time. It was, but that was the right thing to do. And so those are the things that you do for your customers. He still refers people to us and he tells that story and my manager, or my now general manager says, that was when I realized that I wanted to work for you until I retired. John Eppstein: Oh, wow. Yeah. So stuff like that is powerful with your customers. It's powerful with your employees. 'cause they see who you are, the type of person that you are, and that you're, you're there. You know You mean business. I'm here to take care of my customers. And when I say we're here to take care of my customers, that proves that. John Eppstein: I'm here to take care of my customers. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Transmission and all. Even though, we know our, my integrity won't allow me to say, yeah, $4,400. Yeah. Write a check. Your integrity says, Hey John, I'm sorry. Yeah. This was our fault and we took care of it. And here's your keys. Thank you very much. Yep. And here's some referral cards. Jimmy Lea: Make sure Yeah, exactly. Out exactly. John Eppstein: Because I just ate a transmission and I need some help Uhhuh. Yeah. And a Google review wouldn't be bad either. Yeah. Just don't tell 'em we I guess you could tell 'em we did it for free. But Yeah. It's it's just one of those things, it's the right thing to do at the end of the day. John Eppstein: Oh yeah. And so many shops struggle with that, it's, but for me it's real simple. Something comes back in and is it possible that we screwed that up? Let's see. We put a radiator in, so I don't see how we could have, messed up the rear brakes. Okay. We don't need to take care of that. John Eppstein: Okay. You come in and a hose popped under the hood. What did we do? Oh, we were working on belts and this and that, so it's possible that we broke, we leaned whatever we caused something. So we're gonna take care of it If there's any way possible that it, that we might have screwed something up. John Eppstein: Even if we can't prove that we did we'll step up and we will take care of it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You fault on the side of CYA, covering all the bases. Absolutely. Good for you, brother. That's a, that's awesome. And John, I also know that you are very supportive of the Boys and Girls Club. You've got a phenomenal fundraiser that you do every year. I've been able to participate a few times. Yes. The Boys and Girls Club. Why? ' John Eppstein: Cause I grew up in the club. I was lucky enough to actually go to the clubs that I work with now. I grew up going there. It was very different when I was a kid as at, to how it is now, but it was still, it was a place to go. John Eppstein: I had fun. I don't remember being safe there, but I don't remember not being safe there, today it's, when we were kids, we always joke about it. What did your parents say? Come back when the lights, the street lights come on. That doesn't happen anymore. John Eppstein: 'cause there's not a lot of trust out there. But, I went to the club, I learned I had fun, they took care of me. And so when I opened my shop, I was able to connect with my club and I just started working with them. And yes, I did my 23rd annual casino night. If anybody wants to send me some money for it, I'm still trying to collect another thousand dollars because. John Eppstein: My goal was to hit $40,000 raised, and I was beginning to think we weren't gonna get there, and then all of a sudden we were at 41, 42, 45, 47. I shook some trees. We're now at 48, 5, almost 49. I'm hoping we're gonna get to 50. But it's $50,000 that we raised. Every dime that I collect goes to the club. John Eppstein: I don't take money out for the events. A lot of fundraisers, they take money out for the event and things like that. Yeah. It costs me about $13,000 this year to put on the event and every dime I raised goes to the club. Yeah. I don't take money back. Jimmy Lea: Are you still doing the casino nights for your fundraisers? John Eppstein: Yep. Yep. Then we, this was this year's, it was in October, so I'm, I guess the gal from the club, she's ready to close out Casino. Nope. Nope, not yet. I'm gonna get to 50, so hang in there. So I'm trying to get there, but yeah it's really awesome. We have great staff and great clubs, so Jimmy Lea: For sure. Jimmy Lea: John, anybody who's listening to this, how can they go and donate to your cause for the Boys and Girls Club? John Eppstein: You can go to casino night bgc.com. Casino knight bgc.com. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And it's Ural Knights Casino, John Eppstein: C-A-S-I-N-O, casino Knight. Jimmy Lea: Knight One Knight. Yes. Yes. John Eppstein: Let me type it in. I always type it in. I never say it. John Eppstein: Casino Knight. Yeah. It's just casino night. Casino knight.com. Oh, I need to type in Casino Knight. Bgc. There we go. bgc.com. John Eppstein: Yep. Casino night. bgc.com. There's no s in there anyway. Jimmy Lea: Perfect. John Eppstein: Other than in Casino, Jimmy Lea: other than in Casino. So anybody that's listening go, donate a dollar, donate $5, donate $50 let's help get John over this $50,000 for the Boys and Girls Club. 'cause it, it is a phenomenal activity. It's something that is near and dear to John's heart because that's where he grew up. Jimmy Lea: And it helps to provide a beautiful location, a beautiful facility for these kids that, that are, that need those services today. John Eppstein: Yeah. I have friends whose kids have gone there that have thanked me because. They didn't know how they were gonna manage with their kids. And the club is an afterschool care program. John Eppstein: And they could, the kid could get there by the bus, they could walk there, they could drop 'em off, and they knew that they were gonna be safe. 'cause today safe is what's important. Like I said, when I was a kid, it wasn't so much today safe. Safe is super, super important. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. John Eppstein: And we have amazing clubs, but we have even more amazing staff, which we could have the best club ever. John Eppstein: If the staff sucked, the whole thing would suck. And so I, it just, yeah, it's just amaz it, it amazes me every time I go. We have a board meeting and we look out at the gymnasium and the balls are flying and we look down and kids are waving and it is just, it's a super cool, super, super cool thing. Jimmy Lea: That is super cool, John, thank you for doing that. Jimmy Lea: I appreciate it. There's so much happening for you on the day to day to day to day even. Let's talk A-S-C-C-A. Are you still on the board with A-S-C-C-A? John Eppstein: Yep. On the state board. I'm the chapter president for my chapter and I'm on the Educational foundation board. I'm actually the chair of the educational foundation. John Eppstein: Yes, I work very hard for the industry. I work very hard to bring new people into our industry. I'm also on the business acceleration team with A-S-C-C-A, which is a small group of three mighty shop owners that will answer the call when a shop is struggling or has questions. We are not coaches. John Eppstein: We don't wanna be coaches. We just want to point people in the right direction, help people find a coach, a good coach as we know. Every coach can be great, every coach can be bad. It and it's not that they're bad, it's just different people react differently to different styles and different personalities. John Eppstein: And so Jimmy Lea: yeah, it's John Eppstein: just talk, helping people talk through what they're looking for in a coach. And we don't say, oh, you should try this one or that one, or You should not try this one or that one. It's, what are you looking for? What's important to you? Okay. Make sure what you interview the coach for the company you're talking to, right? Jimmy Lea: Yes. You need to ask these questions. As your coach, you need to ask these questions about their process, their procedure, their style. How do they hold you accountable? John Eppstein: Yes. And again, it's, you need to talk. So like if somebody's gonna join one of your groups you have multiple people that run groups, right? John Eppstein: I always tell 'em, you need to talk to. You need to talk to both of them to pick which one is gonna be better suited to your style and your personality. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And let's not even go with those two if they're looking just for coaching. Yes. One-on-one coaching. So they can come to the institute, we are month to month, they can stay for six months and bounce. Jimmy Lea: They can stay for a year and they can bounce what do they need At some point? At some point, John, they're gonna get everything that they need from us and they're either gonna need another coach within the institute or they are ready and confident to be able to continue their path by themselves with the A-S-C-C-A or with their BDG group or with Jimmy Lea: their Jimmy Lea: chapter group. Jimmy Lea: And that's the beauty of the institute is we've got 13 different coaches Yep. That you can work with if you wanna work with somebody that needs to help you with marketing. I've got three super good coaches with marketing. If you're looking for process, procedures, shop efficiency. I've got six good, really good process procedures, shop efficiency coaches. Jimmy Lea: If you're looking for how do I structure my business best as a single entity to, to get it ready to go to multiple shop operations. I've got three really good coaches. Depends on what people need and that's where you need to be able to meet them. Yeah. Is it is not a rubber stamp? No. Kaka chunk Kaka. Jimmy Lea: You gotta do this before we can go to that. No. We're gonna meet you where you are. And what do you need? John Eppstein: Yeah. It's funny because some of the people that we've talked to we've, they've sent a request through the website. The asca.com. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: And so we'll sit down and we'll start talking with 'em and we're like, okay. John Eppstein: And we get to that point where it's okay, now just remember we're here to help you find a coach. Half of them has said, I already have a coach. Oh no. Okay. And this goes back to why you need to talk to these people before you sign on with them, because they weren't getting out of their coach what they needed. Jimmy Lea: And does that also mean that they are tied into a long-term contract with said coach? John Eppstein: Not necessarily. I do, we don't get into those details a whole lot. Okay. I don't, I'm not even gonna tell you who the they were with 'cause I don't remember. It doesn't matter. It's just w why are you here? John Eppstein: Why aren't you asking your coaches questions? I we don't see eye to eye. I don't get a lot out of them. And it's okay, then first thing you need to do is you need to fire your coach. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: And when I say fire your coach, that doesn't necessarily mean you kick your coaching company to the curb. John Eppstein: You need to find a different coach. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: One that, that meshes with, again, your style, your personality, your beliefs, whatever it is, not. No. Two people can work with everybody. Every, everybody. True. And that's the big thing when you're trying to come up with a coach, is that you pick one that is gonna work for your style. John Eppstein: When I looked, when I looked for a coach before I joined the Bottom Line Impact Group, there were certain things I wanted. I didn't want somebody to come in and tell me how to do it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: I didn't want someone to kick me to the side and run my business. I wanted people that I could, Hey, this is what I'm thinking. John Eppstein: What do you think? Oh, okay, great. And then hold me accountable. Yeah. And so that's why I chose the Bottom Line Impact Group, which is now your, that, I think that's the format that, that you guys are following is in, is with the bottom line impact groups Jimmy Lea: thing. Yeah. We now call it the Gear Performance Group. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Or. Yep. And so we've got five different groups looking to add a six one this summer. Awesome. Hopefully I can add a diesel group here pretty soon. Yeah, that would be cool. We, yeah, it would be very cool. We've got a lot of diesel cars, diesel truck shops, and that's a different business model. Jimmy Lea: Euro shops is a different business model. All makes and all models is its own Jimmy Lea: business Jimmy Lea: model. Yeah. So we've got quite a few diesel shops, so if you're a diesel shop listening to this, give us a call. Yeah. We wanna have a conversation. Let's talk. Yeah, absolutely. Ab what did you get, what did you get out of the group process that is different than the coaching process? John Eppstein: What I would always say is that my group was my board of directors John Eppstein: At the end of the day. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: It's I've been on lots of boards. People come in, this is what I'm thinking, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we all look at each other and we go, that sucks. That's great. That's awesome. Jimmy Lea: Nice. John Eppstein: And that's what happens. It's, here's my, remember when John Crunch pulled up my paper and said, that sucks. Yeah. Okay. That's what it is. And people, there's 15, 20 people in a group. They've seen it. Whatever it is you're thinking, most likely they've seen it. John Eppstein: They've lived it, they've done it. If you get 19, yeah, that sucks. Yeah. It probably sucks. It probably does. If you get one or two that say, that sucks and everybody else says that worked great. It's probably pretty good. Jimmy Lea: And I also love the group environment where you can bring a problem, an issue, a marketing idea. Jimmy Lea: A marketing concept to the group and say, Hey, this sucks, but I need to make it better. How do we make this better? Jimmy Lea: Or, I've got this mountain problem, oh my gosh, I, there's no way I'm can get over this mountain. In the group, they say, oh, Sally says I solved that last year. We had the same issues. Jimmy Lea: Here's what we did. And then Joe says, Hey, this is what we did, and Sam says, this is what we did. Then you've got 3, 4, 5, 6 different solutions of other shops that have already solved it. The mountain becomes a molehill. You step over the mountain, you step over the mole hill, and now you're onto the next thing. Jimmy Lea: Yep, Jimmy Lea: absolutely. It's no longer paralyzing you because you worked with the group. They helped you to see your way through it. John Eppstein: Yeah, Jimmy Lea: you're onto the next thing John Eppstein: and things are always changing 'cause. Today my problems are different than they were two weeks ago. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. It was John Eppstein: different than Jimmy Lea: six months John Eppstein: ago. Jimmy Lea: Now, marketing is not only is it Google and Google reviews and SEO, you now got artificial intelligence and you've got how do I gear my shop towards that, right? John Eppstein: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Oh that's awesome. John. I love what you're doing, brother. Yeah, thanks. Hey, so as we're landing this plane here, if you were to have a magic wand and you could change anything in the industry, anything in the automotive industry you have one wish, John. Jimmy Lea: And you can't wish for more wishes? Nope. What would you wish to change? John Eppstein: That everybody would work together. Jimmy Lea: Amen. John Eppstein: At the end of the day, the shops down the street are not your competition, I'm in San Diego. We have 500,000 cars that drive by my shop within a two mile radius every day. John Eppstein: There's not a chance in hell I could fix all 500,000 even if it, even at 50,000. There's not a chance in hell. We have a huge shop. Our customer ra our customer base is four 5,000 people. Okay. Oh wow. Yeah. So if everybody worked together, everybody charged the right price, there wouldn't be this, oh, I can get that done for half price down the street. John Eppstein: And then they would take people, take it to an inferior shop, get an inferior product, and then bad things happen. If everybody charged what they should, they paid their people what they should. Cus consumer would get a much better product, much more consistent product. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: Everybody would be profitable, everybody, employees would get paid well, and it would just be a better world. John Eppstein: We have pretty good group in San Diego between A-S-C-C-A and the Napa, excuse me, the NAPA group. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Eppstein: It's great working with those guys, knowing they're taking care of people. They're charging what they should. They're paying what they should. So that's what I would hope for. Jimmy Lea: I agree with you, John. Jimmy Lea: Here we are wanting to raise the industry, raise the image of the industry, raise the overall performance of the inner industry. And John, I thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. That's exactly where we wanna be. John Eppstein: Yeah. And I'm always the first one to tell people if they need anything to call me up and I'll share whatever. John Eppstein: 'cause chances are I ripped off something that I can share with them. And when I say ripped off, it's, the groups I've been in, we share things and we just call it rip off and duplicate is the way of saying, Hey, I got this somewhere else. And, Jimmy Lea: yeah, no, that's it. You've gotta share the information. Jimmy Lea: Yep. There's really not that much original information, original concept here in the automotive aftermarket. We work hard. John, thank you so much, brother. I appreciate the time, effort, and energy. Thanks for carving out an hour to spend some time with me and talk about what the business that we love. John Eppstein: Yeah, my pleasure. It's it's always great talking with you. You do, you've done great things in our industry. You've definitely helped to bring the industry along. So thank you for that. And just keep being awesome. Jimmy Lea:Awesome. Thank you, John. Appreciate it, brother. All right.  

182 - Cybersecurity for Auto Shops: Simple Fixes to Avoid Costly Breaches November 11, 2025 - 00:53:59   Show Summary: Cybersecurity expert Dan Anthony explains why auto shops are common targets and how simple changes can dramatically reduce risk. He outlines key problem areas including weak payment security, shared logins, and flat networks that expose the entire business during a breach. Dan shares practical, low cost solutions such as separate user accounts, password managers, and isolating payment systems on their own network. The discussion also covers safer multi factor authentication, spotting phishing attempts with quick verification calls, and training teams through short, consistent reminders. The episode closes with clear guidance on backups, stressing the importance of testing them, storing them offsite, and keeping them encrypted.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Dan Anthony, Cyber Security Expert   Show Highlights: [00:01:21] – Weak payment security practices and shared logins are two red flags. [00:07:10] – Keep card machines and payment systems on a separate network to reduce PCI risk during a breach. [00:09:14] – Use a second router to segment payment or business critical traffic. [00:12:45] – You don’t have to be perfect. Just be harder to hit than the easiest target. [00:16:00] – Internet connected tools like cameras often create openings by requiring firewall access. [00:18:02] – Split Wi-Fi into corporate and guest networks to keep personal devices off business systems. [00:28:00] – Separate accounts, password manager, and a dedicated payment network. [00:33:09] – MFA helps, but app or hardware based options beat text codes for security. [00:36:21] – Best phishing defense is trusting your gut and make the quick verification phone call. [00:45:00] – Backups only matter if you test them, store them offsite, and encrypt the drive. In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. This is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Dan Anthony, and he is a expert in the realm and in the world of cybersecurity. So why would we have Anthony on with us today? Oh, that's a really good question. Jimmy Lea: To get into that information and to get into this, I, I welcome Dan. Dan, welcome. How are you, brother? Dan Anthony: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on today, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Hey, you're welcome. So, hey, uh, cybersecurity. It, it's a, it's a big thing. It is something that's important and, and it seems like it never is getting the attention it needs until the world's coming to an end, right? Jimmy Lea: It's true. Yep. Always, always. The way we all, we all get a new computer and we plug it in and it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, here we go, and everything's fine. And then it's not. Dan Anthony: Until it's not. Yes. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Hey, hey. What, what is a, um, a, a typical small business cybersecurity red flag that you see or that you notice as you go around and visit small businesses? Jimmy Lea: What's one of those red flags that's just so omnipresent? You can feel it when you walk in? Dan Anthony: There's, there, there's probably two. I would, I would kick it off with. Okay. Uh, the first I don't see as prevalent. Uh, it's not as prevalent as it used to be, but there, uh, even five years ago, I would walk into any mom and pop shop and I would go and I would tap my debit card. Dan Anthony: Uh, not tap it or I, you'd insert it. Right. And the idea with PCI compliance, right, is that you would insert it so it would read the chip. Yes. And then you would enter your pin. Right. But you know, there were a lot of cases where I would just go insert it. And, uh, the, the pin, right? Never asked for the pin. Dan Anthony: And I, I loved just throwing that at a lot of these mom and pop shops and I would say, oh, yeah, you're, uh, skipping the chip and pin. And they would just say, oh, yeah, we, you know, we didn't want to pay the extra, you know, we didn't have the extra funds, time, whatever in place to add that extra piece of the pin. Dan Anthony: And I, I would just kind of throw that out and say, you know, if there's a hack that comes through your shop. Visa won't cover you. Shut up. That's, that's A PCI, right? That's a PCI component. PCI compliance issue. Yeah. Right. So it used to be that if there was any fraud involved, visa, MasterCard, whoever they would, they would just show up and they would just say, oh, okay. Dan Anthony: Yeah, we'll, we'll cover all, all the fraudulent charges. We'll charges, we'll refund it. And they would make everything right. But they got tired of paying all of that. Yeah. And so with the PCI rules that that was one of the. Big things I started noticing a few years ago and so I, I'd just kind of throw it out there and just say, oh yeah, you guys are skipping that. Dan Anthony: Alright. Oh yeah, it was extra. Yeah, go ahead to to, to my Jimmy Lea: ignorance. I thought that when that happened and I would put in my debit card, I thought if it didn't ask for my pin, it was just running it as credit. Dan Anthony: Right. So there, there are times where it could just be running it as credit, but if, yeah, again, if it is running it as debit, that's, yeah. Dan Anthony: There, there's a lot of nuance in there. And yeah. If you're a small business owner, is this right? Is this a Jimmy Lea: huge, is it a huge amount that, that you've gotta sign up for with this pin code? Dan Anthony: Uh, it's, it's just an extra fee, if I recall correctly at the time when I looked into it a few years back. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Dan Anthony: Uh, it, it was a percentage, right? Dan Anthony: It was just an additional percentage. Oh. That the payment processors were taken. So instead of three and a half percent on a, on a credit, right? Or, or, or a little less, I think it was on debits as well. It, right. They just bumped it up. It adds up. Right. It really, it, it adds up over time really quick. Jimmy Lea: It, it really does, especially if you consider the automotive industry where our average repair order is anywhere from 500 bucks to 1500 bucks. Jimmy Lea: So on a, on a larger, on a larger bill, when you're talking about 3% of a $5,000. Yeah. I had to insert, I had to put a new shock struts, a water pump, a, a radiator. If $5,000 at 3%, it starts, you Dan Anthony: know, Jimmy Lea: that's, yeah. That starts adding up really fast. And that's why a lot of shops will run it as a debit because the fees are less and it's a direct transfer. Jimmy Lea: Uh, even they're getting into now, uh, doing ACHs with banks. Dan Anthony: Yes. Jimmy Lea: And, and with, um, automotive repair. Yeah. Um, so that, that's interesting. So making sure that was number one. That was number one. Making sure you have the, the pin activated for your, for your chips. Dan Anthony: Yeah. When, when you're getting that chip going, yeah. Dan Anthony: They, they go together for a reason. Uh, and then the second thing, uh, that I see, especially in a lot of small automotive shops is that there is just one person. Uh, or one, I should say, one user account. When I, when I'm standing there at the front desk talking to whoever's at the front desk, they'll work on it for a second. Dan Anthony: They'll say, okay, let me go check something. And they'll, they'll walk away and then someone else will come in and they'll start working on the same machine. And that's, that's one thing that just makes my, it, it just makes me a little fuzzy, right? Gets me a little nick Cage twitchy. When I watch that, I just go, how do you know who did what? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How do, where's the fingernails? On the chalkboard? That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Yeah. How dare you? Dan Anthony: Yeah. You just don't have a, and it's, it's not that I'm particularly worried that, oh, you know, this person's gonna come change something on my account. Right. It's just being able, it's just being able to have accountability. Dan Anthony: Right? Yeah. Of who made what changes, of who did what, and if there was an accident is where my brain goes. I wanna, you know, I wanna blame things on, on accidents, not maliciousness usually. Yeah. But Right. That's, that is one of the big things I see where it's just kind of a free for all and it's, it's, everybody doesn't have their own account. Dan Anthony: And if you don't have an account on that Windows machine that that's at the front, I, it makes my brain kind of go. Are there any machines in here that you have your own account on? Is there any separation of, you know, who does what and how do you know if somebody adds an extra zero or forgets an extra zero? Dan Anthony: Oh my gosh. When they're, when they're invoicing. Well, Jimmy Lea: Dan, this is absolutely fascinating. We're talking about this, I mean, this is cybersecurity. You're not even the credit card guy, but here we are talking about cybersecurity, right? This is so important. So if I'm a, a mom and pop shop and I'm automotive aftermarket, and I've got two service advisors at the front desk, each one needs to have their own credit card processing unit, or are you saying. Jimmy Lea: Just the computer, just their login when they walk away. Yeah. They should log out so that the next person coming in should have to log in. Dan Anthony: Yeah. Or, or uh, or just right lock the, they would have maybe the each, they, they each have their own, uh, uh, pc, uh, yeah. And yeah, they, if, if you have one, uh, PLS terminal, right? Dan Anthony: One. You have one card machine. Yep. Yeah. Those card machines with, with, it's gonna come back to PCI because I've, I've been in compliance and on the compliance side of things for so long. That's, that's where my brain likes to go. But I, I would say, yeah, you keep those, those payment machines and anything related to payments. Dan Anthony: Separate from anything else that, right. That's one of the, one of the first things, if there's a breach, that's one of the first things Visa does when they send forensic examiners is they're gonna look at your network and say, is, is every computer plugged in on the same network as these card machines? Dan Anthony: That's how they are. And if they are, then all of a sudden all of those computers are within that scope of what they can look at and say, oh, this computer doesn't have these settings, so your entire network is not PCI compliant. Oh gosh, yeah, we're not gonna pay for that. Versus if you just have a separate network for those, for those card machines, then suddenly your scope is just that network with those card machines. Dan Anthony: So if five of your customers come in going, Hey, I got weird charges on my card and Visa rolls that truck up, you can say, Nope. Everything with those cards is all on its own network. So yeah, I'm a, I'm a big, I'm, I'm big on keep things separate, right? Not just for accountability, but all also it makes things a lot easier, uh, if, if PCI ever becomes a, a big deal for you. Jimmy Lea: For sure. And, and most shops don't keep any record of credit cards. There's, there's no, so they don't need encryption, they don't need that kind of stuff. Uh, it's just running the credit cards on the machine, on the unit itself. And you're saying make sure you've got a, a separate network. Yeah. Yeah. Easy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Dan Anthony: Easy setup for whoever's setting your networks up, uh, if Right. If you have somebody coming in to do it. Okay. Uh, and the, I would call it the poor man's method of doing it. I actually do it at my own home for my, uh, uh, 'cause I, I have a work from home job, yeah. Where I took an old router and I plugged that router into my router. Dan Anthony: At, right. So it creates a sub network that has a firewall. So there's nothing going between anything that's on that second router and your home network or the rest of the wor network. And you can just, right, it's, and that's, that's a great use for an old, old router that you're, that it, that can't be updated because once it's behind your main router, your Comcast router, your Time Warner router, it's. Dan Anthony: Protecting That's doing. Yeah, that's doing the heavy lifting. You've just got the sec, second one in there to segregate and just say everything payment related. Everything work from home related just happens on this second router, on this network and segregated and Jimmy Lea: uh Oh wow. It keeps it all separate. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And, and I love that, that that is gonna help a lot of shop owners. I, I can already hear the wheels turning in shop owners' heads saying, oh wait, you know what? That, that's something I can do that, that's easy. I can put this on a separate, I've got an extra router. It's in the closet. It's right here. Jimmy Lea: Let's plug it in. And, and even if you don't, it's less than a hundred bucks. You can get another router. Yeah. And you're good to go. Yeah. Yeah. Most shop owners, most shop owners, they're, they're thinking about cars, customers, cash flow. They're not thinking about hackers, they're not thinking about PCI. Why would they even care about cybersecurity if nothing bad has happened yet? Dan Anthony: Yet. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, I, I ac when I, when I worked for, uh, the State Department of Health, I, I would have some employees who would ask me that same question. They would, they would just say, Dan, I'm a low level employee, right. I'm not a manager. I'm not a director. I don't have access to anything that's, that's that important. Dan Anthony: And I, I would just say, well, but you have access to the network. You have access too. Right? And it's, that's, that's all, that's all. Any, any of these outside entities want from you? If, if you are a, if you're a small business, if you're running a small shop, uh, you, you might be thinking, well, I, you know, I don't have a lot of cash flow, or I don't have a lot of money in the bank that could be stolen. Dan Anthony: Uh, I would say, do you, do you have a. What's a, an EIN Do you have a, any social security number that might be flowing over, over any of those networks that somebody might wanna pull loans out in your name? Right? It's, it's not how, how much money you have, it's how much money they can get using your data, whatever, whatever way necessary. Dan Anthony: Uh, so that's, that, that's one of the reasons I, I, I love, I love this work is right, keeping people safe from as much as possible. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Keep the honest people honest. So if you had, if you were, if you were to try and explain cybersecurity to a shop owner, uh, from, and, and, um, this is like an elevator pitch or, or the time it takes to walk from the front door to a bay door, what would you say to a shop owner to help them understand cybersecurity? Dan Anthony: It's, uh, you're, you're running a race with, with every other, other small business owner. And you don't have to be the best, you don't have to spend the most, uh, you just have to be better than the worst. Right? You don't have to be the fastest person to escape the bear. You just can't be the slowest. Yeah. Dan Anthony: You gotta be faster than that slow guy. Right? And it's, yeah, cybersecurity's, the, the exact same. Uh, when you're, when, when a, when a thief is, is say, walking through a neighborhood, driving through a neighborhood, they're looking for the easy targets, so. W what I say is don't go out and buy the Fort Knox of deadbolts and, and alarm systems. Dan Anthony: Don't buy, you know, a one everything if you don't live in an A one neighborhood, otherwise, right? Otherwise, you're gonna make yourself a target, right? You're gonna overspend and you're gonna make yourself a target. Make, make it so that you're just enough, more difficult to deal with that it's not worth the hassle. Dan Anthony: Okay. Right. Okay. If all, if all your neighbors are spending $20 on deadbolts and you go and spend $50 on one, then probably your place is just not worth the hassle of, of trying to break into. And it's the exact same idea with cybersecurity is there's a lot of people who don't spend any time on it. It's right. Dan Anthony: They just, they, I, I don't have the time, or it's too complicated. And if, if you spend five minutes, you know, five minutes a week, there's, there's a couple hundred minutes a year that you've spent on it. That it makes you that much more, it gives that perception that, hey, this target's just not gonna be worth it. Dan Anthony: Right. Why? Why would I go after these guys when, you know, the shop down the road has no protection? Jimmy Lea: Well, speaking of deadbolts and in, uh, the automotive industry, they will go out and buy. The top tools, the top scanners, the top, whatever that it might be. So what, what kind of systems are, uh, in a shop that are the most at risk, where they might need that sort of an upgrade? Jimmy Lea: Um, and I'm gonna give you some specific examples. Uh, their, their shop management system, the software, their, uh, emails that they're using, uh, whether it's Gmail or Outlook or QuickBooks or credit card terminals or wifi. Uh, wifi routers. What, what is, what are some of those systems that a shop owner needs to be aware of that they've got, that are at risk inside of their shop immediately? Dan Anthony: The number one thing that I usually look to defend is anything that's, anything online, anything connected online that can be. That a software program can, that somebody, some kid in Russia and living in his parents' basement is just trying every IP address and running quick scans. So that's the right, and when you, when you install a a Windows machine. Dan Anthony: First thing it, one of the first things it does is it turns on its own firewall. When you install the router you get from Comcast or Ex or, uh, time Warner, whoever, one of the first things that that does is it hit, it sets up a firewall, right? To, to shut off most of that, those sort of connections. Uh, so. Uh, a lot of that immediately gets covered. Dan Anthony: But if I have cameras at my shop that I can access online, then I have to open up doors. I have to open up holes in my firewall and it for my app on my phone to be able to touch those cameras from the web right from anywhere if I've got a, you know, badge, uh, card or badge readers saying that. That talk out online. Dan Anthony: Same idea. Uh, right. So that's, those are the first places I look is anything that's, any internet of thing things. Okay. Those are the bigs. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So I'm, I'm hearing the cameras and I, I think a lot of shops do have cameras set up, uh, around their shop and they do monitor it remotely. Um, why? Because that's why we're, we're shop owners. Jimmy Lea: We want to have that autonomy to be able to be away, to be on the ski slopes or on the golf course, or riding my motorcycle across the country, whatever the scenario is. So I see cameras being, uh, it sounds like an option, but I also have technicians in the bays and these technicians might have an Alexa, um, yeah, Alexa that wants to. Jimmy Lea: Participate in the conversation or they're playing music. That's what I hear most of them, they're playing music on their Alexas, uh, their little echoes and the little dots and stuff like that. But also technicians have at their bays a computer so they can get online to check with Phi, the Ts, BS the, yeah, the, the difference, uh, Mitchell, uh, all data, when they need assistance in doing a repair, they're gonna get online. Jimmy Lea: So that terminal. It becomes a target as well, right? Dan Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, for, for situations where, where you're gonna have that mix one, uh, if, if you're using wireless per se, I would, I would say yeah, just set up two wirelesses. You have, you have the company wireless. Yeah. And just let 'em know this is corporate, right? Dan Anthony: Only corporate devices connect. Right. Only the business devices connect to this one. And do you usually have a guest account? And guest? Jimmy Lea: Okay. Yeah. Yep. So we, as a company, we only connect to the corporate account. It's usually the 5.0 Dan Anthony: right Jimmy Lea: feed. Yeah. And then we've got a separate one that is our guest account, and it's usually at the 2.4. Jimmy Lea: It's at the lower, uh, speed. But it doesn't matter. I mean, guests are there for short amount of times. Right. They shouldn't, they're probably streaming movies, but whatever. Dan Anthony: That's so for me, I would, yeah, I would have at least those two where I would say corporate and only do corporate things on the, on that one. Dan Anthony: And then if my employees have an Alexa, if they have any, if they have their own phone or whatever that they want to, they want to Facebook on while they're on break or whatever. Connect to the guest network, that's Oh, yeah, totally. Okay. That, that's what it's there for is, yeah. I mean, you could, so where's our Jimmy Lea: credit card terminal? Jimmy Lea: Where do we connect that to Dan Anthony: Personally, I would have that on a wired, on its wired, uh, right wired and on its own, uh, unless I'm in, you know, Wells, Nevada, or, you know, Matis c Wyoming or, you know, some other tiny, tiny place, uh, where I'm not concerned about. About any sort of wireless, anybody, uh, coming in and trying to sniff my wireless traffic or anything like that. Dan Anthony: If I'm in a big city, then I'm gonna take a lot more precautions with wireless. Uh, as far as right. My guest, my guest wireless network, I'm gonna say, okay, we're gonna want to change that password regularly. And regularly, meaning I I would say at least once a month. Uh, Jimmy Lea: so are you serious once a month, you're gonna Dan Anthony: change it? Dan Anthony: Uh, that's, that's me If I'm in a big city, uh, okay. I would seriously consider it. And it's, it's a risk assessment, right? It's okay's, it's. The, the thing that I'm concerned most about with offering wireless Yeah. Is that somebody is gonna connect to it and they're gonna download something that's illegal, whether that's movies or adult films, or write other things. Dan Anthony: Sure. That they're gonna download something like that and that's gonna come back to my IP address. Mm. And, and, right. I'm the one who's gonna get the phone call. Mm-hmm. And so. You know, or, or you just shut it off, right? It's 5:00 PM closing time also to, you know, whenever, whenever you get your wifi set up, you just say, no, I want my wifi around here. Dan Anthony: Shut off too. Uh, so we don't have people, you know, in the parking lot at 2:00 AM using my fast wifi on my guest network to, to do unscrupulous things. Uh, Jimmy Lea: that is absolutely interesting and fascinating. Uh, I hadn't even considered that. Shutting off your wifi, your guest wifi. Yeah. 'cause the only things on the guest wifi are superfluous. Jimmy Lea: Alexa. Yeah. Cell phones, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Or customers that have been in previously. Yeah. So, uh, it shuts off at five. I like that. Well, and, and, and to this point, um. Because many shops think, oh my gosh, we're, we're small. No one cares about us. We're real small. But, but what is the cost of a small shop in real world terms, like lost days, lost data, lost reputation, what does that look like for a small shop? Jimmy Lea: But, but, and here's the, here's the interesting thing, Dan. They're small shops all across North America. In big cities and small cities. Yeah. Urban and rural, it doesn't matter. Most shops are small shops and small meaning less than 30 employees. It's a small footprint. Yeah. Okay. Talk to me about real world lost cost Dan Anthony: of, of. Dan Anthony: Most of the time, and I, I think this is why a lot of folks feel like, it's like, it's not, uh, I admit I'm a hammer, so when I look around, I see nails. Right? But a lot of people just it, right? It's it. They don't know anybody that that's happened to, and they don't think it will happen to them because I'm not Chase, I'm not Wells Fargo, right? Dan Anthony: I'm not a target. Uh, and it's y you're not. But when a program is just incrementing the each target that it's going after and saying, okay, I am looking after computer number one now on. Comcast's network. Now I'm looking at number two, number three, number four. And it just sits there. And the, the, that's what they do. Dan Anthony: They, they crawl. And any, anybody who's thinking that through is going, well, why can't Comcast or or Time Warner shut that kind of thing off? And the answer is very easy because that would kill Google. Google does the same thing. They crawl and that's how they get their search results. It's the same sort of thing. Dan Anthony: They don't do the same scans. But at any rate, to, to, to your question what I mean, what are we looking at? For a lot of people it's just gonna be lost, lost time and effort. Uh, yeah. So is, is it that you left some social media. Logged in, right? Or you clicked a link and they got a hold of your social media account and somebody started posting, you know, Chuck Norris jokes and you know, ha ha, that's great. Dan Anthony: Uh, you know, everybody loves Chuck Norris jokes. Or is it more serious than that? Where, right, where we mentioned earlier, you have customers start coming in and saying, look, I've got charges being pulled off my card, and the only place I've used it in the last week or two weeks is here. Oh, and right where, where the first person you hear that from, you kind of go, well, yeah, go talk to your bank. Dan Anthony: They'll help you with that. But when the fifth or 10th person walks through the door and says that you're in trouble, right? That's, yeah. That's, that's, that's where you start sweating and that Yeah. You, you know, real trouble is, uh, is definitely at your doorstep and, uh, how much can it be? It. It can be, it can be thousands, it can be catastrophic. Dan Anthony: It, right. It just, it just depends. Yeah. And so, uh, a lot of times, especially with, uh, with PCI, where I'm gonna come back around to PCI, so if, if Visa comes in and they're, and they're doing an investigation and they see that no effort has been made. No thought has been put into it. I mean, you're completely non-compliant. Dan Anthony: No efforts, no anything. You're on a flat network. Everything's plugged into that same network, all shared on the wifi, right? That's most likely in that case, visa is just gonna say, yeah, good luck. Yeah. We're not covering any of those costs from all of the people who got ripped off. In fact, you're gonna cover those costs and you're gonna cover the costs of our forensics team that. Dan Anthony: As of 10 years ago, it was like a $10,000, just a truck roll was 10 grand for, for visa's forensic teams to show up at. Like it's, and I can only imagine what it's what it is now. Oh yeah. Right. So I mean it, yeah, it can be catastrophic. Most of the time it's right. It's just gonna be somebody posting Chuck Norris jokes. Dan Anthony: That's, that's what we're gonna see most of the time. But. If you see the Chuck Norris jokes that should be, or, you know, somebody posting something funny or, or whatever on your social media, that really should be the wake up call of, oh, hey, yeah, that's, Hey, that was funny, but also I, I might actually have a problem. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, and, and most often you do have a problem. So how often are you getting those? Oh, crap moments. Uh, something hit the fan. Uh. They, they've definitely hacked me. Um, Dan Anthony: oh, I've, I mean, you are in the business. I mean, that's just Tuesday for you, but No, no, no, actually, it's, it really isn't. Uh, I've, I've been officially, officially in cyber All we will, we will round it to between 10, 15 years and between all of the, all of the employers that I've been with there, there have been two. Dan Anthony: Oh wow. Uh, two incidences where I can absolutely, without a doubt, say Oh, oh, yes. Uh, we, we had an a, uh, in, in the industry it's called an incident, right? Yeah. It's not, if it's not as serious as an incident. Right. You can call it an event, but, oh, geez. But yeah, there, there are a couple where, uh, yeah, where it was, it was an official incident and that was, uh. Dan Anthony: My, my, my boss put it as a, uh, yeah, it's a, that's a, I hope you wore the brown pants today because it's maybe all weak and Yeah. Yeah. When you, when you're that deep in it, it, it's, it is scary. Can be, uh, can be. Oh gosh. And Jimmy Lea: yeah. Well, let's talk about Jimmy Lea: some, some simple practical first steps. What is something that. Jimmy Lea: Or what not. Not even one. Let's talk about three. What are three basic things that shop owners can do this week? What, what should those fixes be? Dan Anthony: Oh, uh, right outta the gate. Separate. Yeah. Separate accounts is, is one of my right, like I mentioned in the beginning. Right. Separate accounts. Separate accounts Jimmy Lea: on the same computer, Dan Anthony: right. Dan Anthony: Whether it's on the same machine or across, yeah. Everybody has. Own login has, has their own login. Okay. Um, and that's, whether that's your Windows box or whether that's whatever online systems, especially in QuickBooks, anything accounting, right? You want people to have their own username and password. Dan Anthony: Just, uh, again, not, not to protect from hacking, but just, just so that you have that accountability so that people, your employees and, and anybody who's in QuickBooks knows that they're not anonymous. Mm-hmm. Uh. Th so outta the gate. Yeah, that's separate accounts. Uh, just, just for that tracking. Second is passwords. Dan Anthony: Uh, I, I'm a big proponent of use a password manager. They, if you're, if you're a small shop, 10 people, 20 people, that sort of a thing. A lot of times you can get a, a company license for a, for a decent password manager for one 200 bucks a year. Oh wow. And suddenly Yeah. That's, Jimmy Lea: that's very, Dan Anthony: yeah. It's, it's reasonable. Dan Anthony: It's easy. It's, it's very, a lot of times, so for my, for my part, I, I, when I say I wanna see 30 character complex passwords on everything, which I can say I, I do at least 30 characters on all of mine because I have a password manager, and it takes care of all of that. Uh, and, and once you have ridiculous, crazy long passwords like that. Dan Anthony: Uh, that's, that's where I can step back and say, okay, the bonus is now. I would, I would throw out that you only need to change those once a year. Okay. And you don't have to remember in the first place, but also, you know, during a slow time of the year if you have such a thing. That's, that's a great time to tell your people. Dan Anthony: Okay. Go in. It's time to change passwords. Jimmy Lea: Got it, got it. Alright, so separate logins, Dan Anthony: password, separate logs, savers Jimmy Lea: and passwords. All right. What? Gimme a third one. Dan Anthony: Third, third, third, third. Uh, I'll, I'll go back to that network setup. I would absolutely have a se a separate Yep. A, a completely separate network segment for everything. Dan Anthony: Payment related. Uh, yeah, just, just for PCI. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. That, that's good. So you're recommending, uh, uh, password savers. If, if, uh, if a shop were not to be doing password savers, what would be a good, uh, outline or a good guideline for, I mean, they're not gonna remember 30 characters, Dan Anthony: right? That's, uh, I, I love, uh. Dan Anthony: What are they? Uh, the word just left me pass phrases. Mm. So it's, it's the sort of, it's the sort of thing that you can write out almost a story and a password. Yeah, it is like a sentence. My parents met under the starry sky sort of a thing, or, oh, wow. My, you know, my parents met under the starry sky. One exclamation point. Dan Anthony: Right. Yeah, great password because it's stupid long and horrible because I just posted it online for anybody who listens to this podcast, Jimmy Lea: nobody's gonna do that one. It is like the guy that has 1, 2, 3, 4 is his password. No, nobody, yeah, they just don't do that. Dan Anthony: Okay. They do. Yeah. Unfortunately people still do that, and so that's, yeah. Dan Anthony: Yeah. Don't do that. But yeah, use the password manager and. If you don't have one or you can't, again, it comes right back to risk assessment. Uh, if you're, if you're a big shop, if you're, if you're a shop in a big city, right? Where there's lots of walk bys, lot of foot traffic, uh, day and night, uh, that's where I'm gonna say absolutely, positively come down hard on anybody who writes down a, a password on a post-it. Dan Anthony: And sticks it on their monitor or under their keyboard or under their mouse pad, or sticks their wallet in the end of their shoes at the beach. Right? These are the things, danger, right? These are the things we all think we're so clever, but, but if you're in a, if you're in a small shop in the middle of nowhere, you know, West Virginia or a small shop in the middle of nothing, Kansas, Kentucky, anywhere like that, if you have a book that has passwords written down in it. Dan Anthony: You keep in a safe, I've, I would kind of say, you know, you don't have a lot of foot traffic. I can't, I can't say I'd fault you for that. Uh, because the, the biggest problem is gonna be somebody walking away with it. And if you don't have that traffic, uh, I would say there's probably other things you can do that would be, that would give you a better return on your time. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, most shops don't have the nuclear codes. They don't have credit cards. That's on file. What about multifactor authentication? Uh, MFA for short is, is it, does it matter? Should shops Dan Anthony: skip it? I, yeah, I, I recommend it and use it, use it as much as possible. I will throw out that there, there are, there are different, uh, there are different tiers. Dan Anthony: There are different types of MFA. If you have an app. On your phone or one of those little kind of key fobs that sits on your key ring. Those are great. Uh, you know, top tier s tier the kids would call it these days. That's, that's s tier. It's, it's, that's the, that, those are the ones we want. Then there are other ones that are where you get texted that code. Dan Anthony: Just, just on your phone. And that one tends to be quite a bit less secure. Oh, really? Only for the reason that, uh, that cell phone companies tend to still tend to let just about anybody phone in and make changes on people's accounts. Jimmy Lea: Hmm. Dan Anthony: Uh, even if you've set up a pin with them, even if you've set up a code, there's a really great video on YouTube at a, uh, at one of the Def Con Hacking Conferences where a social hacker, uh, uh, a reporter walks up to a social engineering hacker and she says, well, give me five minutes. Dan Anthony: I will have full access to everything on your cell phone plan, and all she does is she calls the company's customer service, and then on her computer, she starts a YouTube video of a crying baby. And she puts that next to the phone as she, and she's just saying, oh no, I know. I'm sorry. I'm not listed on the account. Dan Anthony: But we've been living together for five years and he's probably just never got to it. And this baby is going crazy. And right just through, just through a YouTube video of a baby crying, she's able to social engineer her way through. Within just a couple minutes, she has full access to everything on this guy's account. Dan Anthony: She's able to change numbers, she's able to write, add, and remove phones. And so at that point, anybody who does that can add a new number or change numbers, things like that. And suddenly any two factor that's being sent as a text message is gonna go to them too. Yikes. Oh, that's Jimmy Lea: scary dude. Dan Anthony: So yeah, the apps, the apps are great. Dan Anthony: The, uh, Yuba keys are a favorite. Uh, but yeah, an app. What's a Yuba key? Uh, it's, it's another one of those little key fobs. Oh, okay. But it also has a, uh, a lot of times they, they will plug into a USB port and some of their higher models also make you put a finger on there. To give a little, gives a little resistance, a little electrical resistance, so it's something that cannot be done remotely. Dan Anthony: Oh wow. Right. It's the sort of thing where you plug it in and you have to be at the machine because you're, you're providing that it's, it's an extra, but yeah. If, if, if you're into the tech and you want extra uuv key's worth checking out. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Dan Anthony: Okay. Jimmy Lea: Well, uh, bringing it back down to, uh, emails, because that seems to be a, a, a common way for hackers to get in. Dan Anthony: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: What are some of the most common mistakes or scams or phishing emails that you're seeing hitting small businesses right now? Dan Anthony: Uh, shoot, every, everybody knows about the Nigerian prints. Uh, yeah, we do. Right. So I, but I still love bringing it up because that one's still effective in 2025. Uh, no way. And a lot of people look at it and go, man, you're either dumb or you're desperate. Dan Anthony: And yeah. That's, those are the people it works on. Uh, mostly the desperate, uh, but the, the, the compromises that I'm seeing. Are, uh oh wait. Almost always intelligence gathering. Uh, so you're, so you're getting an email and it's from somebody that you know, right? It's some, it's from another, somebody from another company that you've worked with, something like that. Dan Anthony: And, uh, this, this one, I, I just saw a couple years ago, uh, a lady in a, in loans, I think it was one of the loan departments. Mortgage. Yeah. Uh, not mortgage, but in, in, uh, it was one of the. Uh, yeah, personal loans, type Jimmy Lea: of deal. Dan Anthony: Loans. At any rate, she got an email from a, someone she had worked with prior, uh, a city employee, and he said, Hey, we've got this RFP out, I've attached the PDF. Dan Anthony: So she opened it and she goes through and she starts filling it out. But then she called me and she said, look. Everything about this is normal. I work with this guy regularly. He sends me these RFPs regularly, but inside this PDF, there are two lines in here that are, that have no business being here, and so just her gut was saying this, this is not right. Dan Anthony: I told her, I just said, yeah, I can, I can, I can scan 'em. And so, you know, I scan the email, I scan the PDF, and there there's nothing, there's nothing technically wrong with those. And so I, I called her back and I just said, you know, if you, how well do you know the guy? She says, you know, pretty well, we've worked on a few projects. Dan Anthony: I said, best thing you can do is call him ten second phone call. Hey, did you send this email? Why do you need, you know, why do you need this? You know, you don't have to, you, you don't have to be confrontational. Just, Hey, did you, did you send this, this? It's got some new forms. There were changes in there. Dan Anthony: And 30 seconds later she was telling him she was the method of informing him at the city that the city's email system had been compromised. Oh, wow. And. Uh, right. So I I love the 32nd phone call. Oh, yeah. As, as a security, because how, how often are we getting completely outta the blue emails from strangers versus most of the work we're doing over email, like 80% of the work we're doing is with people we already know. Dan Anthony: So. If the, there's that gut check. If something looks wrong, feels wrong. I mean, you can, you, you do all the usual checks of, you know, you look at the links and you hover for a second, and if you're seeing weird stuff, yeah, there's, there's a lot of that misspellings, grammar, uh, you know, things like that. But, uh, yeah, the, the gut check and the 32nd phone call is absolutely my favorite. Jimmy Lea: I've gotten that. I've gotten that. RFP, uh, in fact, do you know, do you know Watt. Dan Anthony: I do not. Jimmy Lea: Dino is in our chapter, the Mountain West National Speakers Association. Oh, alright. So Dino sent out a, an email, but it wasn't him. He was hacked and I called him and I was like, dude, are you putting on some sort of a summit meeting or what? Jimmy Lea: What's going on? He's like, dude, I got hacked, man. Don't fill it out. Don't open it. Well, I already opened it. I already looked at the PDF. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I just deleted Jimmy Lea: it all. You know, the other one that I've seen too happening here quite recently is. An email goes out and it says, uh, we're trying to update our accounting software and we lost everything. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How much do I owe you? What do I owe you? What's the invoice number? Send me all this information. Yeah. And it's like, oh my God, no. The total scammy. The other third one that I've seen, and it's happened a lot, is I'll get an email from Cecil Bullard saying, Hey Jimmy, I need you to do me a quick thing. Jimmy Lea: I'm in a meeting. Uh, can you run down to the store and get a couple of gift cards and send 'em out to x, Y, z? Right. Dan Anthony: Yeah. Anytime gift cards are involved. Yeah, you can, you can just about, just about, it's 99.99. Nine nine. I don't have enough nines memorized. Nope. Percent of the time that Yeah. It's too infinity. Dan Anthony: Yeah. But yeah, the, it's, yeah. Again, the 32nd phone call. Hey, we're updating our software. Hey, we're, uh, yeah. I mean, a surprising scam that continues to work is the, uh, the, just the out of the blue invoice. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's, oh dude. Yeah. I got one from I, we were at sema. We were at sema, and I'm getting this email and I'm going, this is from Freeman for the power, but this is so sketch, this looks so right. Jimmy Lea: They didn't spell our name right. They didn't use the proper name of our business. Da da da da da da. Yeah. I really don't believe this. So I ignored it and I was like, Nope, not gonna answer. It comes again. Nope, not gonna answer it. The woman came to us, the booth at SEMA and was like, Hey, you guys still owe us $227. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's a real one. I totally thought it was fake. I totally dismissed it as spam because there's no way there's, it looks so sketched, dude. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's so, even the real thing can Dan Anthony: look sketchy and Absolutely. Yeah. That's, yeah. The phone call, that's right. Back to the, yeah. You, you, uh, the phone call, the gut check. Jimmy Lea: You gotta make sure you're listening to. Your spidey senses and, and that you're paying attention to what's going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't fault a 32nd phone call. Alright, so, um, let's talk about this from a, a shop owner's point of view. How can they train their teams on these cyber threats without killing them and boring them to death? Jimmy Lea: PowerPoint them to death? You know, how do we, how do we not kill the team and, and still convey the message, Dan Anthony: uh, for, for, uh. I, I used to do those sorts of trainings and I, I kind of hate myself for it, for ever taking part in any, any security cyber training over an hour because I, I know I'm the only person in the room who loved it that much. Dan Anthony: Uh, for my part, I, I suggest frequent and, and short. If you do five minute, 10 minute. Yeah. Stand up. Yeah. Uh, my, one of my favorite trainings with the previous employer was a, uh, uh, once a week I would send out an email that I worked my tail off to make sure was never longer than two paragraphs. I wanted it to be one, right. Dan Anthony: I wanted it to be something that was 30 seconds, maybe 45 people could read real quick and say, yep. There, you know, there's a good reminder. Got it. Boom. Uh, the, the second part of that is if, if you hear somebody suggesting 30 character long passwords, right. That's. That's rough if you don't have a password manager or if you don't have a passwordless solution where you can, you know, do a, a, a facial recognition or a fingerprint or something like that, which surprisingly, uh, is, is getting more like you can get a $15 fingerprint reader at Walmart, things like that, where you make it easy. Dan Anthony: Yeah. Where you don't have to do a 30, uh, huge password because all we have to do is, uh, on one my laptops. That's biometrics. Yeah. I swipe my finger and it logs me in. Nice. And, and that's it. It's great. Uh, so yeah, I would say if, if you want great security, uh, skip the training as much as you can and just make it, make it something that's easy and part of the workflow so that your, your people don't even, right, they're worried about fixing cars. Dan Anthony: Leave, let 'em be worried about fixing. You know, why? Wondering why that radiator or why that, uh, alternator just fell out. Well, it fell out 'cause you didn't tighten the bolts dummy. But, uh, I may or may not have had that experience with an alternator once. I will neither confirm nor deny. Jimmy Lea: Oh, you're such a straight shade tree mechanic. Jimmy Lea: You are working on your own stuff. It does happen. No, no, no. So let's bring this back here into, um, into cybersecurity and, and, and, yeah. I wanna look at like a, um, we talk about backups, we talk about recovery. We talk about what is your SOP for the bad day plan. Yeah. Perhaps hit the fan. Do we have a backup? Jimmy Lea: How does the shop know if they're actually having a backup? Dan Anthony: Uh, if, if you're, if you're, if, let's say you've got QuickBooks, if your QuickBooks is hosted. On your computer versus is it hosted online? That's the pertinent question. Uh, so if you have apps that are host, if you have a server in your office, yeah. Dan Anthony: Tho those backups are, I would do those frequently and check them to make sure they work at least, you know, once or twice a year, make sure your backups work alternately, if you're, if you're in a QuickBooks Online. Right. Or if you're, if, uh, I've. I hesitate to say, put all of your, use all of the web versions of whatever software you can, uh, just because it's less control. Dan Anthony: And I, I, I like having control. But if you push everything off to those web versions, then they have to worry about the backups and they have to worry about the compliance, and they have to worry about fail safes. And if your computer goes down. It's, Hey, hey, Jimmy, run down to Best Buy. Here's the credit card. Dan Anthony: Right? He goes, buys a new laptop, you plunk it down and everything's online. So all I gotta do is log back in and we're right, we're right back up and running. So there's definitely pros and cons, uh, to, to both methods. Uh, Jimmy Lea: yeah. But, and what I, what I do, and I'm, I'm holding up my external hard drive. It's a, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Two terabyte or 10 terabytes, something like that. It's ginormous. Every Friday I plug that sucker in and let it run Dan Anthony: and back up. Jimmy Lea: Does its back up over the weekend, however long it takes. I don't care. It does its thing and, and that way, if ever poop hits the fan, I've, I can run to Best Buy, get another computer. Jimmy Lea: I have this that has all of the physical stuff on it, but then I also have a computer with all my cloud-based stuff. Dan Anthony: Perfect. Yeah. And that's, that's great. I, the only, the only addition or addendum I would throw on that is where you store that drive matters, right? If you're storing that drive in a fire safe right inside your shop, oh no, it's on my desk, right? Dan Anthony: And your shop burns down your toast, right? Yeah, yeah. You lost your computers and even if it's in a fire safe, most likely it's gonna wreck. Any data drives inside a fire safe. So yeah. If, if you've got backups like that, it's always a good idea to make sure your backups are, if Yeah, you plug it in, you do it, and then get it off of that, you know, out of that site. Dan Anthony: Whether it's out of the property. Yeah. Whether it's an earthquake, a fire, a, a flood, whatever you Yeah. You just want to, yeah. I got some separation. And if you're doing that, yeah. Make sure those backups are, are encrypted. Right. So nobody else can just, you know, find your backup and then have all the keys to your, to your business. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Plug and play. They would just be right in on everything. Oh my gosh. Well, I hadn't even considered that. Take it away from the shop, which, I mean, there, there's a whole nother challenge. 'cause that's when you got 48 hours that that backup is running and it's available. And if somebody breaks into your shop. Jimmy Lea: They grab that backup. They've got all the data, all the information, all, yeah. So if you're not encrypted, then if you're not password protected, they can plug and play, and now they've got everything. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, thank you that that was, that was a good one even for me. I, I like that one. Dan Anthony: It's fun. Dan Anthony: It's, it's, it's a fun thing to think about, theoretically. It's not fun when it's happening in real life. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, I mean, here we are talking about backups and recovery. I want to di dive into that deeper, but, uh, we're, we're running to the end of our hour here. I, and we didn't even get into wifi and devices and vendors and, and talking about those types of things. Jimmy Lea: I mean, shoot, we're gonna have to circle back and do this again, Dan. Dan Anthony: There is so much that it, and it touches on everything. Oh, yeah's, budgets, Jimmy Lea: priorities. What's the non-negotiables? What are the nice halves? Yeah. What's the must-haves? We, we didn't even get into any of that. Dan Anthony: There's all sorts of great stuff. Jimmy Lea: All right, so we will circle the wagons. We'll do this again, but I want to hit you with a couple rapid fire lightning questions. Bring it on. This is meant for you to answer in short one sentence answers. Are you ready? Dan Anthony: As best I can. All Jimmy Lea: right. What makes the single easiest cyber mistake small shops make every day? Dan Anthony: Uh, ly. Uh, I would passwords, I'll go with passwords that they're, they're either shared or they're shared or reused or just, just not monitored at all. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and I liked your, uh, one about the credit cards, credit card separation machine being on the same Yeah. You gotta separate. Yeah, separate. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Strong password or multifactor authentication. If you could only pick one, which one wins? Dan Anthony: Oh, don't do that to me. Uh, I'd probably go with the cyber community is gonna kick me out, but I would go with strong password. Uh, I've, yeah. I can hear the hate mail Jimmy Lea: coming already. Right. Okay. Biggest wrong password flag? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Biggest red flag in an email that says, do not click me. Urgency. Ooh. Yeah. Yes. Okay. How often should a small shop change critical passwords? Uh, 30, 60, or 90, or one every year. Dan Anthony: If, shoot, that's not a one. Ans it's not a one question, one, one word answer. If it's like a 10 character password. Uh, yeah. Dan Anthony: Change it every 30 to every 45, 90 days. Uh, if it's like 30 characters plus once a year. Got it. Jimmy Lea: More dangerous in your opinion? Uh, public wifis or reusable passwords. Dan Anthony: Uh, reuse passwords. Jimmy Lea: On a scale of one to 10, how risky is it to share one login for the whole front office? Dan Anthony: Do you do background checks for your employees? Jimmy Lea: Um, yes and usually. It happens after they have already started. Yep. Dan Anthony: How much do you trust your people? That's, yeah. Wow. You know? Yeah. How much, I mean, are they, are they in debt? Can they be leveraged? Uh, yeah. Ouch. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I know a lot of horror stories, unfortunately about that one. Yeah. Alright. If a shop owner can only secure one thing this week, what is it? Jimmy Lea: Email, wifi, or backups, where do they start? Dan Anthony: Oh, email. It's, it's the most connected. That's WiFi's. Localized backups are local. Should be localized generally. Yeah. Yeah. We e email's. The most connected, the most online. So I'd start there. Jimmy Lea: What cybersecurity tool or feature would you wish every shop turned on today? Dan Anthony: Uh, password manager. Right. I told you everything was gonna come back to passwords, and it's, I, it does. I hate how much it does. I hate how much it does. Jimmy Lea: All right. Fill in the blank. If you don't have this in place, it's not a matter of if you'll be hit, but when, if you don't have this in place, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Dan Anthony: Yeah. Good, good. Uh, password hygiene. Mm. Right. If your people are never changing their passwords, they're probably also reusing them. Uh, yeah. Jimmy Lea: That sort of thing. What's your one word reaction when a shop owner says, we're too small for hackers to care about us. Dan Anthony: Wrong? Dan Anthony: Mine was idiot. Yeah, lull. Yeah. No, it's Lowell. Lowell. LOL, right? Yeah. It's no if, if you have money or you have credit. Jimmy Lea: If you have information. Yeah, and that's what we have. Dan Anthony: And any of that, anything, anything valuable is a target. Jimmy Lea: Oh man. Dan, thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate being able to talk with you. Jimmy Lea: Uh, if people need to reach you, reach out to you, how, how can they contact you? What's the best way for them to get in touch with Dan Anthony? Dan Anthony: Uh, easy to, uh, just, uh, throw me an email just [email protected]. It's all spelled normally. Uh, or, or you can, I mean, you can throw me a message at my website. Dan Anthony: That's, uh, dan anthony speaker.com. Uh, there's a little message for him on there, but yeah, either one of those. Is, uh, is a great way to, uh, get ahold of me and I'm, I'm happy to chat. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Love it. Appreciate it Dan. Thank you very much and thank you to you and your knowledge and information and to the automotive aftermarket. Jimmy Lea: Thank you for keeping us on the go. On the Move Safe and sound. Not only does that apply to you, Dan, that also applies to everyone that is in the automotive aftermarket. Thank you for all you do. You're awesome. Thank you. Alright brother. Talk to you real soon. Thank you. Dan Anthony: Thanks, Jimmy.

181 -Tech at a dealership to owning two shops. William Bowe Shares his journey to ownership. December 09, 2025 - 00:32:16   Show Summary: William Bowe shares how he went from tinkering with his grandfather to earning his Red Seal and owning two shops in Canada: Bruno Automotive and CG Motorsports. He walks through buying a business during COVID, learning cash flow the hard way, and working two jobs to keep things stable. William explains his growth strategy: build a repeatable service model, then adapt it to different vehicle brands and customer bases by location. He also highlights why restoration work often comes down to emotion, and why understanding customer motivation matters. He closes by calling for a better public perception of the automotive industry as trusted problem-solvers.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): William Bowe, CG Motorsports / Bruno Automotive Show Highlights: [00:01:26] – William shares how working on cars with his grandfather sparked his interest in the automotive trade. [00:02:26]  – He describes moving from tire shops into European dealerships and earning his Red Seal early. [00:03:23]  – COVID forced a career crossroads between dealership life and independent shop ownership. [00:04:13] – Buying a shop during the pandemic meant learning business ownership under intense pressure. [00:06:12] – William explains why he worked two jobs for years to stabilize cash flow and reduce risk. [00:09:24] – A gradual ownership transition at CG Motorsports created a smoother path to full control. [00:14:12] – His advice for expansion centers on mastering one business model before scaling it. [00:15:07] – He breaks down how the same service model supports different brands and customer bases. [00:18:24] – A personal restoration project shows how emotion often outweighs logic in classic cars. [00:27:27] – William shares his wish to improve public trust and perception of the automotive industry.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea Hello, friends. This is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is William, and he is the owner of Bruno Automotive as well as KG Motorsports. Both up in Canada. William, how are you, brother? William Bowe Good, thanks. Yeah, just super busy in the time of year. It is, but. Yeah. Doing well. Jimmy Lea Yeah. I really appreciate you carving out some time. I know you are in heavy entire season right now. Your shop's up in Vancouver, Canada. William Bowe Yeah. I mean, not so much tires for our clientele, but definitely lots of fluid services right now, a lot of winter inspections for road trips up to the ski mountains, that kind of thing. But, yeah, we're deep in the thick of it. Jimmy Lea Yeah. My son is a big, big mountain biker, and he is just jonesing for me to take him up to Whistler. William Bowe Oh. Right on. Yeah, yeah. Which is a great place for that. I mean, also with the skiing and whatnot, but, Yeah. Jimmy Lea Know mountain biking. William Bowe Yeah, exactly. Jimmy Lea I'm like, oh, you lazy bum. All you want to do is the downhill stuff. Yeah, that's the good stuff, dad. Oh. Okay. Yes. William Bowe Of course, of course. Jimmy Lea That's good, that's good. Well, William, I'm excited to to find out about you and about your history and how you got into the automotive business. Take us all back to where it is that you started in the automotive industry. William Bowe Yeah. So, I mean, I'll be honest, I never actually had any dreams of being in the automotive industry as a kid. I actually wanted to be in the police force. But, you know, there's this. I got my first car. I was tinkering on it with my grandfather and his, you know, one car, garage, basement kind of set up. William Bowe Yeah. Back in the, grade ten or grade nine when I started. And it was just basic stuff I want to tinker on. Oh, I want to get different headlight bulbs. I want to do different wheels and stuff like that. And he being an old hot runner himself, he kind of showed me what he could show me. But I mean, the cars that he worked on, the last, newest one was like a 1975. William Bowe Right? So, I mean, my first car being like a 2000 Acura, was a bit of his wheelhouse, but you definitely taught me what you could. And I kind of just got really intrigued with learning more and learning more, and, and life kind of hit. And after high school, you kind of faced the decision to lock myself down to school or do I try and go and make some money? William Bowe And, I realized you could you can make decent money, being a technician. And I liked what I was doing, you know, tinkering. So when I turned into a career, police try to. And, yeah, it started off in tire shops and, you know, worked my way up. And then I got my first real gig at a dealership that was specialized in German performance here in Vancouver, right when I was a first year. William Bowe Yeah. And then from there, I spent some time in a couple other European dealerships and, I was Red seal in my early 20s. Jimmy Lea Congratulations. William Bowe Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did it. You know, I had my fun dealership. I did, you know, learned everything I could with all the BMW factory training sets, rose focus and specialized in. And, then Covid hit, you know, fast forward to what? Yeah. Covid times and, you know, the dealerships went through a bit of a shake up being, you know, corporate structure and whatnot. William Bowe And I'll show you to another decision. Do I put myself in a situation where I'm just a number, or do I try and branch out on my own? And at that point in time, I showed a friend who was working at an independent shop in North Vancouver, and he approached me saying, hey, the owner wants to retire. Do you want to try this? William Bowe I was like, oh, okay, well, I've never done anything business related, but I can see how a shop should run, you know, to be efficient and have pride in one's work. So, okay, I took on that opportunity. Jimmy Lea Are you're you're Tekken at the dealership and your buddy comes to you and says, hey, let's buy the shop. William Bowe Yeah. Jimmy Lea Is that what I do, sir? So you went from taking the dealership to shop ownership immediate? William Bowe Yeah. Yeah. Trial by fire. Jimmy Lea Oh, yeah. Welcome to the deep end, William. Sink or swim. Here we go. William Bowe Yeah, yeah. And I mean, like, sink or swim is the best way of putting it because, yeah, this was Covid. We just we literally just bought this business as the mask mandates were coming out and things were just opening up again. Right. So take two guys in there. We were mid 20s in the mid to late 20s, you know, don't know how to run a business really. William Bowe And now it's okay. Well you can run a business. But you know you got to make sure there's clean disinfected masks, gloves you know all that kind of stuff on top of like don't have too many people in the room and all those other silly rules that came out at that point in time. But we did it, you know. William Bowe Yeah, yeah. So you here. Jimmy Lea You you bought it in March of 2020 or when things were opening at 21. William Bowe I think we, I think the conversations of us taking over the business were like, hey, September of 2019, things got serious. I want to see March, April ish. And then everything was all said and done that following September. Wow. Yeah. So like right in the thick of it. Right. And I remember, you know, even us being open, we'd have to talk to our staff and say, okay, well, only one of you can work today.     William Bowe Two of you can work that day. Just, you know, because there's so many mandates on various levels of staff at the time. Yeah. All the while I was still working at the dealership, too, so I'd, you know, help the shop work at the dealership because no one knew where the roll was going to go. Right? So I had to kind of hedge my bets and see how much you know, what I can save up in case things hit the fan again. William Bowe Oh, but I mean, you had to do. Jimmy Lea The two jobs. How long were you still at the dealership and working as a business owner? William Bowe Well, up until four years ago. Yeah. Jimmy Lea So you had a solid one. Two years of working two jobs? William Bowe Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So, I mean, like, obviously when you buy a business and you're new to it, you don't really understand how the cash flow of things work. You don't really understand the customer clientele yet. And how the flow of work kind of comes through the shop season, the season. So I told my business partner, hey, like, you can be the day to day guy and I'll still keep my, you know, my dealership job, but I'll help you in the background. William Bowe I'll do all the web, all the appointments, all the accounting, all the super not fun stuff like that. My off hours. Yeah. And, you know, I won't take as much from you, you know, so I'm not there every day. But I don't need to, because I'll be supplemented on the dealership side, and, it worked out well, you know, and then we got busy enough and other opportunities presented itself that I, I left the dealership and went out into, CG Motorsports as a, foreman manager. William Bowe And then I took this shop over two years ago now. Jimmy Lea So, congrats to you on the two shops you own, Bruno with a partner, and then you own CG Motorsports. William Bowe Yes, sir. Yeah. Jimmy Lea Wow. Congratulations. That's awesome. William Bowe Thank you, thank you. You know, I. Jimmy Lea Want to go back a little bit in your history there. You give quite a bit of details there. Talking about working with your grandfather in the basement on the car. And you talk about grade nine. Grade ten. Canada has a pretty good apprentice program for the mechanic side of things. The technical side of things. Yeah. William Bowe Yeah, definitely. Jimmy Lea Did you go straight from high school into the tech school? William Bowe Well, no, I mean, it was I mean, being young and being into cars right after high school, I did, I would say waste some time, just working, you know? Jimmy Lea Yeah. Just work, just working. William Bowe Just working in the trade, working on my car. And then, you know, I kind of realized, like, I can't just, you know, screw around for the rest of my life. So I was like, okay, let's get into schooling, let's do the right steps. And, I'll be honest, it wasn't until I had the offer to go work at that European dealership. William Bowe That just means a lot more seriously. Oh, wow. I thought, like, okay, there there can be a decent career in this, you know, working on the higher end cars. And I was very interested to see, like, you know, what they're capable of. And, you know, I kind of started off with really basic performance work at that shop, you know, like coilovers, lowering exhaust, that kind of stuff. William Bowe And that was extremely exciting for a guy who was, I guess, a first year apprentice. Jimmy Lea Yeah. Because most guys, they're doing lube oil filter brakes, brake pads, rotors. William Bowe Yeah, yeah. And I did all that to, you know, in the, in my time in the tire shops. Right. Yeah. But it was that like that, you know, tip of the iceberg that I was exposed to of, like, kind of the fun stuff you can do with cars that really got me hooked. And then I was I was done after that. William Bowe I had to finish up the whole apprenticeship and stick it out, so. Jimmy Lea Oh, good for you. Congrats, man. So. So you went from the dealership, and owning Bruno's to being the foreman at KG. And how did that conversation happen that you go from, hey, I'm just shop foreman to, hey, man, I'd really like to buy you out. William Bowe Well, when I first went in there for my interview there, I was like, all right, here at TJ, I was I was floored, I was impressed. It was it was a beautiful, clean shop. It did all the kind of stuff that I like to do, you know, of European performance. And, Douglas, from my first remarks to the previous owners. William Bowe Wow, this place is amazing. This is my dream. And, you know, kind of off the cuff. He said, well, you know, I'm going to retire one day, and if you're interested, maybe you can take it over, you know, in a very, like, jovial and passing way. But I, I definitely took that to heart. And I was like, yeah, let's do it right. William Bowe And we joked and laughed about it. But then as time went on and, you know, I, I guess I proved myself, we got to more talks and I fully started to like, take over most of the day to day operations stuff. You know, we got into more serious conversations. He said. Yeah. So my, my plan is to exit by this point in time, my life. William Bowe And, you know, if you're ready, you get first dibs at it and we'll go from there. And it worked out. So definitely wasn't a hostile takeover by any means. It was a very gradual and, you know, symbiotic kind of relationship to go about it. Jimmy Lea Yeah. Sounds like a friendly transfer of ownership from I was the shop foreman and now I'm the shop owner, and it sounds like that. Yeah. William Bowe I mean, it was it was definitely, a softer landing. The one I dealt with was Bruno. Right. Because, you know, when I spent quite a few years here learning the customer base, knowing how things go, and then when the change of hands happened, there was no. Oh, we don't know who you are. We can't trust you like people already knew me. William Bowe So it was okay. And not saying the Bruno transition was rocky by any means because my business partner had been there day to day. Yeah, but the learning curve was a bit more because we didn't have as much of, you know, a finger on the pulse of the day to day operations, whereas I did with CG. Jimmy Lea So. Wow. It's fascinating. That's awesome. So now is, is CG closer to home for you, or is Bruno's closer to home for you? William Bowe Oh, gosh. No, no. They're both, as far as I can get for my house. Almost. To be honest, Jimmy Lea I've got really good friends in Surrey, so we've been up to white Rock and been to Moby Dick's and had fish and chips. And you are so far North Vancouver, I don't think. I think we may have passed through there, going to the national park, the rainforest, but I don't think I've been that far north more than once. William Bowe Yeah. So, I mean, I originally lived in Langley, not too far from white Rock, South Langley, when, I took over CG but as of recently, I have moved out to Abbotsford, which is we have a little 40 acre farm out that way that we kind of run as a family hobby. So, I mean, if I had to give you two of the worst commutes to work, it'd be North Vancouver and Richmond, and I have both, so that's, good for me, but. Jimmy Lea Oh my goodness. Yeah. Go. On average, how long does it take you to go from, home office to business office? William Bowe Well, I mean, I do, I do say that, the commutes crap, but we start super early here. We're 7 a.m. start. Yeah. So, I mean, in the in the morning, like, average, it's 30 to 45 minutes. You know, if there's an accident, doesn't matter where you're coming from, you're in traffic. So I don't count those days. William Bowe But, you know, 45 minutes is pretty average. And, Yeah. And coming home, you know, that's again hit or miss. Right now I'm getting home in like 30 minutes flat. So we know traffic after 5 or 6:00, which is nice, but, you know, I know I'm on borrowed time there, so. Jimmy Lea Oh, for sure, for sure that that's pretty cool. You're able to get back and forth that quick. My, my commute could be anywhere from 30 minutes to the home office to two hours. Yeah. William Bowe So I, I will say like, last winter we had a nasty winter and the tunnel that we go through to get through the other side of the river here was closed. Yeah. And I think it was I left the shop 6 p.m. and I didn't get home. Jimmy Lea Till. William Bowe 132 in the morning. Jimmy Lea In the market. William Bowe Everything. Yeah, everything was a mess. So it was like, you know, you spent three hours trying to get one way. Oh, now it's closed and you backtrack and go the other way and all that. That's close. And you just it was all over the place. So. Yeah, it wasn't fun. Yeah. Okay. Jimmy Lea You when you, when I don't even want a level that that's that's next level. So you own two shops. What kind of advice would you give? The men and women out there in the industry today that are looking to expand their base, they want to add a second, a third or fourth or fifth location. Here you are. Jimmy Lea You've got two. What advice would you give somebody who's considering to take on a second location? William Bowe Yeah. I mean, like the most important thing I find is really understanding your model, right? Because, I mean, you have to understand your model really well, and then you put in the variables being the clientele base and the cars you're going to work on. Right? You know, where your parts come from doesn't change too much. How to do it narrow doesn't change too much. William Bowe We really have to narrow down and be specific as to who you're selling to and what cars you're selling to. And if you're able to do that, then you can basically plop that model down in, you know, neighborhood A, B, C, D, you know, always churn out the same. Right? Jimmy Lea And so for your business model, you're looking at it saying, okay, I'm a Euro shop. I work on Audi, BMW, Mercedes that this is my core business. I could take this same model and plop it down in A, B, C or D and we would have a successful business. William Bowe Yeah, yeah. I mean like right now we have our two shops, right. So in North Vancouver, we are heavily focused on, Japanese and domestic. Right. I say 95% of everything out there is Japanese or domestic down here in Richmond, I have 100% European. And if I have to split that down a little bit more, I'd say 90% of BMW and 10% to everything else. William Bowe But it's the same business model. It's the same, you know, parts suppliers, it's the same customer service, it's the same model. What you do things, you're just plugging and playing different, plugging and unplugging different brands and different customer styles. That's it. Right. So, I mean, I know if I took this business and I went out to, see Surrey, where you might know, right? William Bowe Yeah, there definitely be European shops out there. Well, then. Okay, you just bring the whole model over and you figure out which customer base of cars is the most popular out there, or which ones you can connect with most and plug it in and off you go, right? If you can really nail down a good customer service model and really understand what you need to give to your customers for that to come back, it does not matter if they drive an Audi or a Lamborghini or a, you know, basic Honda. William Bowe People want good service, right? It doesn't matter what they drive. You know what the exception is? Some people don't care. That's one deal. But, you know, most people just want good service. Jimmy Lea Know for sure. For sure. Well, and from your website, I would tell you that Bruno looks like it's got a lot of Euro mixed with some domestic because I'm seeing some classic cars and some, corvettes and some looks like a Nova. William Bowe Yeah. Yes. I mean, like, our our specialty up there is the classic cars of both European and domestic. You know, we do have a couple of really good guys on staff. And that's why I say that's our specialty. It's not something we do every single day. But if a guy comes saying, I want to restore X, Y and Z, well, okay, let's go, let's take it on. William Bowe Right. Jimmy Lea We'll take a deposit of $30,000 and we'll let you know when that runs out. William Bowe Yeah, I mean, that, that that should be a pretty healthy build for some cars, but that's kind of what happens. Yeah. Jimmy Lea Yeah, yeah. Oh I'm sure, I'm sure people bring you Swiss cheese and want it to be, showroom ready a garage queen. William Bowe Oh, 100%. Jimmy Lea Oh, come on man. William Bowe Yeah. And yeah. And I mean, like, you know, this is for the automotive industry. Everyone understands, like, you know, curtailing a customer's expectations. Sometimes, you know, they bring you a car that's basically one speed bump away from the wrecking yard and want you to make it concourse ready. Right. And you're like, oh, how do I break in the news? William Bowe I mean, we can do it. Anything can be done. If there's enough money and drive behind the person doing it, it can be done. Yeah, but you have to be honest and be like, I don't know if this is worth it. Like, maybe we should go find you that cleaner of a car to start off with. But, I'll be honest, there's been some customers and even actually myself, that have had so much emotional attachment to certain cars, they don't care if they gave you the concourse version for less than what they'll put into the rust bucket. William Bowe They love the rust bucket, right? So they're going to go to the end of the earth for it. And I mean, I just mentioned like I'm definitely a glutton for punishment with that one because I'm currently restoring my grandfather's night, 1970 Mercury Meteor convertible. And, I have never spent so much money on a car in my life. William Bowe And it's a terrible decision. Jimmy Lea Yeah. William Bowe So, of course, emotional attachment. Right? Jimmy Lea Like terrible financial decision, but, highly emotional satisfaction. William Bowe Oh, 100, 100%. Like, I mean, how many times can you say that? Oh, we lost our family heirloom of a car. And then I found it on a Facebook marketplace 15 years later. Jimmy Lea Like, shut up. Is that. William Bowe What happened? Yeah. Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and on Facebook Marketplace, just by chance, and, I asked the guy, can you open the glove box for me and just see what registration is in there? And sure enough, the registration was my grandfather still, so. Wow. Yeah. Pretty cool. Jimmy Lea Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. You knew that you weren't walking away from that one. William Bowe No. Oh, no. Exactly. But that's the kind of situation, right? Like, I mean, certain customers will definitely. They'll be right there beside you, like, I love this car. I want to see this car. And everyone else in the room will say, walk away, walk away. But when there's an emotional attachment to vehicles, you can't sometimes. Right? Jimmy Lea No, that's exactly right. And that's where you need to find out what is the customer's motivation. I, I heard of a client here quite recently that, she brought in it was a, not a Corvair karma Ghia, you know, a Karma Ghia convertible. And, you know how much to restore this vehicle? I want it, I want to be able to drive it. Jimmy Lea And, the service advisor had the same idea, the same prospect, which was, hey, you know, let's talk about this car, because I really don't think it's worth it. Worth it? But they didn't say that. What they said was, you know, let's talk about this car. What does this car mean to you? Well, this is the car that my husband bought me when we were first married, and he recently passed away. Jimmy Lea And I would like to restored because it reminds me of the love we had, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Beautiful love story. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Nope. Not a problem. It's going to be $25,000. Here's a check. Okay, tell me when it's ready. And four weeks later, six years later, it was ready to go. William Bowe Yeah. And that's a that's that's actually quite a common theme. You know, like some people think that, these newer cars, they don't have any personality or they're just recyclable. I think that's extremely subjective. You know, I've, I've had some interesting, you know, BMW, BMW models come through where it's like the most basic of the basic of the basic, and you're like, you okay, you want to see this? William Bowe And yeah, sure enough, there's some story behind it. Like, yeah, this was the car I got when my son was born. And we have all these memories and the road trips like, oh, okay. Sure. We'll we'll save this base model three, two, three. No problem. Jimmy Lea Like, yeah. William Bowe Yeah I would, but I get it. You know. Jimmy Lea Back when the windows were cranked and it wasn't a power window that that type of, basic, basic, basic. William Bowe Well, no, I'm talking like early 2000. It's like E46 generation. Yeah. Okay. Like really? Not really. Nothing too exciting about it. No run of the mill three series sedan. But, you know, if if it's got any emotional attachment, I'm there for it. We'll we'll help out. Sure. Jimmy Lea Oh, I love it, I love it. Yeah. Those emotional attachments go deep for many, many, many, many people. And I agree with you I think cars have personality. I name all my cars. They have personality for sure. William Bowe Yeah, yeah. And I think that's like, you know why most people are in this trade and why most business owners and move industry wake up every morning as we're here to like connect with that customer and kind of bring back the dream, bring back the passion to your car, even if it's just your daily driver and you really don't like it here. William Bowe Just driving from A to B to get just to get there. Yeah, well, we should be making a smile a little bit when you accelerate or when you hit a corner. You should be a little bit of enjoyment, right? You shouldn't hate everything about your car. Jimmy Lea So yeah. So true. So true. Well, I'm glad that you are in the industry and I think a lot of us in the automotive industry, automotive aftermarket, we do this because of the immediate feedback, the immediate feel good we're here. We help people in their day to day commutes. We help people with those family vacations. We we get that immediate feedback that says, oh man, thank you so much. Jimmy Lea You saved this delivery. You saved this family vacation. You saved this commute. You saved grandpa's car. William Bowe Yeah, yeah, I could do that. Yeah. I mean, like, I, I my wife's a nurse. And, sometimes we've gone to heated arguments in a in a nice way because I like to relate our industry to the healthcare industry like we are doctors for cars. That's what we are. Yes. Right. You know, every aspect of a car, you can relate to the human body. William Bowe So, you know, doctors are here to make you safe, healthy and smile. We're doing the same for your car. You know, the car is an extension of a person in most cases, right? So, I mean, we care. We care as much as doctors, I think, you know, and to a certain degree, and, you know, whether it's making sure your son gets to school safe, making sure you get to work safe, you know, a fun family trip. William Bowe Like you said, it's important. And that's what we're here for, right? We're problem solvers. Jimmy Lea Yeah, yeah, we are problem solvers. You're exactly right. And that's so exciting. Well, so what's the future for you, William? What's the future for CG Motorsports? For Bruno's? What's what does it look like for you? What's the plan? The three year, five year, ten year plan for you, brother? William Bowe Yeah. I mean, like I would say, the immediate three year plan is to we'll branch out at CG. You know, we are well known for, BMW repairs where, you know, we have a very strong, customer base and that and people trust us with those. Over the last couple of years, I have been, bringing on staff and, you know, resources to help cater to other European brands so we can build a foothold there. William Bowe And same thing goes for Bruno. Like, we do have a very strong classic car, customer base, which we would like to be offering a bit more to. Yeah. So, you know, we're we're just trying to position ourselves strategically to, you know, take over enough real estate to facilitate these extra customer bases because, you know, cars take up a lot of room. William Bowe And Vancouver real estate sucks for wanting room. So I think the next three years or so is just, you know, kind of branch out and make them make those different divisions of our company and then build up the specialized, clientele base and our specialized workforce to help cater to those segments of the market. Just as well as we do for the ones that we're well known for. William Bowe And it's like I said in the beginning, it's all based on that model, right? BMW model ten of ten figured it out. Okay, let's try Mercedes. Right. Okay. Ford trucks figured out ten out of ten. Okay. Let's try Chevy trucks. The same model. You're plugging in a different brand and different customer base and off you go. But you have to throw out the model with the different variables, right? Jimmy Lea Yep. Oh, I love it I love it I love what you're doing there. And I love that you're, looking to expand the kingdom too. That's that's very cool. And maybe one of these locations might be a little bit closer to the Home Office as well. Next to the hobby farm. William Bowe Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, I kind of like having my work far away from my house because I can just turn off. Yeah, but yeah, that's part of my drive. I'm like, oh, it doesn't exist anymore. Jimmy Lea Until the 40 minute decompression. William Bowe Yeah, yeah. But I, I'm a glutton for punishment. So I give out my cell to my customers sometimes, you know, good customers. I get along with that. Yeah. There's always the Sunday Sunday night. Oh check into like, what could it be. Oh I don't know anything like. Jimmy Lea Yeah. Right. Yeah. Anything from a loose gas cap to, Yeah. You're going to blow up your engines, so pull over. William Bowe Yeah, 100%. But for some reason, they think we can just diagnose it over the phone, which. Yeah. Let's see. So super fun to do on a Sunday night, which is always seems to be. Jimmy Lea No. Yeah. Your answer needs to be don't do anything. I'm calling the tow truck now. You know what? William Bowe If you said. Jimmy Lea Let's have a conversation tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. William Bowe For sure. Jimmy Lea Wow. That's awesome. William. Well, if you were to have in your hands a magic wand and you could wish one wish. You can't wish for more wishes, William. But what is your wish? What would you wish for? William Bowe I guess if we're talking specifically the automotive industry, I would. I would love to see the, the the outward opinion of our industry change from you're just trying to scam you out of a quick dollar to there there to help me. That would be very nice. Not saying that so much our customer base, but just when you talk to people on the street or you hear people talk about technicians, the automotive world always negative, almost always negative, oh, they'll know what they're doing. William Bowe Oh, they, you know, overcharged me. There's always something negative. You know, be nice. If we were thought of as, you know, problem solvers that we talked about. Yeah. Because I don't like I know multiple shop owners, I don't know a single guy in my kind of circle that I've ever heard of scamming someone who's not trying to help. William Bowe You know, I think there was misinformation. There might be some bad apples, but you can't paint everyone with the same brush, right? Yeah, that'd be my wish. It's just to change the outlook opinion of our trade, right? Because I think there's a lot of really good people there that want to help. But it's hard sometimes when you're up, like facing an uphill battle of negativity, right? Jimmy Lea Yeah, I love it. I love, talking about elevating our image in the industry. And that's what you're talking about is, increasing our perceived value to the public 100%. Yeah. And we can do that. We will do that. Not that the, the health industry is by any means perfect because we know they're not. The difference between the automotive industry and the medical industry is a doctor will bury their mistakes, and we have to bring them back and fix it 100%. William Bowe Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's funny too. And like, you know, people don't put much value on it, but the amount of, like, you know, liability and safety that's in your technician's hands on a day to day basis is ridiculous. You know, it really. Jimmy Lea Is. It's amazing. It's amazing. The responsibility you have. Yeah. William Bowe Yeah. And so I mean, that's what I mean, like the amount of responsibility put on our techs and our staff every day. How can we all be bad this world would be, you know, trashed. You know what I mean? Like if every guy was scamming and not doing brake jobs or doing improper repairs or improper parts, how would the cars still be running? Jimmy Lea Well, how would they stumble? They would never be able to stop us. William Bowe I mean, yeah, exactly. Running, stopping all of that. Right. So yeah, it's it's interesting kind of, way to look at things. Jimmy Lea Yeah, yeah. So true. Most important, number one important on a vehicle is, that we need it to go. And second most important is just as important as the first one is we have to make sure it stops 100%. William Bowe Yeah. Jimmy Lea William. Congratulations on on, transitioning from the dealership into the independent world. What do you think of it? What's the difference in your mind between, a dealership and an independent world? William Bowe I mean, I honestly don't have anything too bad to say about the dealership world. Like, I learned a lot there that I only ever found in the independent world. Yeah. I think the one thing the dealerships are missing and they've probably lost track of is, you know, true customer service. Right? And I'm not I can't blame them. William Bowe I mean, they're usually large corporations with very large overhead and every dollar counts, right. So, I mean, the biggest positives for an independent shop is you have the ability to take the extra time to, to get to know your customer and treat them better than they have at the dealership. And that's what creates repeat clients. But then again, we can't answer every question for them. William Bowe We're limited by tooling or by facilities, or we can't do recalls. That kind of stuff. Right. So definitely a place for both models in the industry. But I think, you know, dealerships need to work a little bit better on, their customer service in this day and world. But it's okay. No one's perfect. And who has room for improvement? William Bowe Right? From both sides of the coin. Jimmy Lea Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. I would agree with you. I think those dealerships, they are big and they do a phenomenal job. And they've got, a big overhead. And I love the nimbleness, the ability of the smaller business to make decisions, make decisions quickly, move quickly, take care of customers and clients to a point where they become raving fans and they stay with us forever and ever and ever. William Bowe Yeah, you know, 100% cool. Jimmy Lea William. Thank you very much, man. I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate talking with you today. Thank you so much. William Bowe Yeah. Of course. So thank you.  

180 - The Ownership Evolution: Systems, Coaching, and the Next Chapter for Northeast Motorworks December 17, 2025 - 00:48:05   Show Summary: Wayne interviews Freddy and Lucas of Northeast Motor Repairs about launching their shop from scratch and overcoming early financial struggles. They explain how trust, communication, and coaching helped them correct underpricing, improve processes, and quickly boost profitability. The team shares how implementing a parts matrix, TechMetric, and structured systems transformed their workflow and customer experience. Freddy and Lucas highlight the value of mentorship, integrity, and learning from mistakes. They also discuss future goals, including scaling to multiple locations and building a business that runs without their daily presence.   Host(s) Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach Aldo Gomez, Industry Coach   Guests: Freddy & Lucas, Owners of Northeast Motor Repairs     Show Highlights: [00:00:00]  – Wayne introduces Freddy, Lucas, Aldo, and the Northeast Motor Repairs success story. [00:01:00] – Freddy explains transitioning from car sales to opening a repair shop together. [00:05:00] – Partners describe protecting their friendship through immediate, honest conflict resolution conversations. [00:08:00] – Early months bring negative balances, unpaid owners, and underpriced work on too many cars. [00:13:00]– Implementing a parts matrix and TechMetric boosts margins, efficiency, and professional presentation. [00:18:00] – Wayne celebrates record months, stronger gross profit, and steadily climbing performance metrics. [00:20:00] – Freddy emphasizes coaches and mentors as the fastest path to results. [00:25:00] – Owners share their dream of self-running shops and expanding to multiple locations. [00:30:00] – Advice to aspiring owners: prepare financially, expect trial-and-error, invest in guidance. [00:36:00] – Standing on integrity and thorough digital inspections wins trust and returning customers.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Wayne Marshall: Hello, this is Wayne Marshall, coach and CEO here at the Institute. I welcome you today as we have gathered to, uh, interview in this webinar, one of our existing customers, Northeast uh, motors Repair. Today we're. Freddy and Lucas joining us along with Aldo, who is one of our other coaches, and, uh, also helps with our APG program, our advisors performance group program, and, uh, have this opportunity to visit with these folks as to what they've been doing, the success they've been having. Wayne Marshall: As to some of the things that have been going on is they have started this business from scratch just about 18, 19 months ago to where the success of what they're having today. So, gentlemen. Welcome, glad that you're here with us today. Uh, today I'm gonna start off with, uh, Freddy first. Freddy, I want you to gimme just a little bit of background, if you would, of what first drew you into this industry and why you do what you do. Freddy: Sure thing. Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Thanks for having Freddy: us. So, um, I began selling cars with my father and I was always business minded, and that's actually what I studied in, uh, college. And what drew me into this was actually that we needed to get cars repaired to sell. And that's how I met Lucas. We started working together and, uh, finally reached a goal that we had collectively to open up a, a repair shop together. Freddy: And actually the business here was so busy that we weren't actually able to repair any of the vehicles we had for sales. And we started making that transition over to to work here at Northeast Motor Repairs. Wayne Marshall: If you would do me the honor, uh, for those that'll quickly find out, uh, Lucas is very fluent in Spanish and learning English, so we're gonna do part of this, uh, webinar today in Spanish. So. If you would ask that same Aldo: Sure. Absolutely. So, uh. Aldo: Excellent. So what, what, uh, what, uh, uh, Lucas has shared is that from his native country, is that, uh, fuel is not the greatest grade of fuel. So he started at a young age working on mainly Carre systems and such, and that's when he began learning to work on vehicles from the necessity of having subgrade fuel. Aldo: And he met Freddy's, uh, Freddie Senior or Freddy's father. Years ago, and Freddie's senior or Freddie's father would call and ask, uh, Lucas for help every now and then. And it became more and more often. And Freddie Senior at one point said, well, you know, what's it gonna take for you to work with us full time? Aldo: And uh, here we Wayne Marshall: are. So, so question here, and I'll start with you, Freddy. Uh, what's been one of the biggest challenges, because as I've already asked, and we know, and for the, for our audience, you guys are not related. You're just your friends. Uh, and you know, in a lot of cases when we talk to people in this industry, you get brothers or cousins who come together. Wayne Marshall: And sometimes in this case, friends, um, in the year and a half plus you guys have been working together, what's been some of the biggest challenges that you have faced to get this business going and started? And then, yeah, we'll jump over to Luke, uh, Lucas and his, Freddy: yeah. So one of the things that, uh, we knew when we began a business is that, um, we're cognizant that many businesses can fail, especially being friends or. Freddy: Brothers or anything related like that. Mm-hmm. So from the very beginning we, we really laid out that anything that we had come up, we would immediately address it. And we wouldn't let at any point there be a moment where there was something we had bubbling up inside. I think it was really important to let any of that stuff out immediately so that way we nipped it in the bud and we could continue moving forward. Freddy: And actually, um, as we progress, there's less and less of those moments, but it was important to take care of the ones that. We're gonna begin from the very beginning, so that way it wouldn't evolve into anything and we could continue a successful, uh, business relationship. Aldo: Fantastic. Okay. Aldo: Okay, so Lucas's answer to, to the same question was that, um, that they had a, that Freddy and Lucas had established a long time ago. Foundational trust where mm-hmm if a situation, obstacle, an issue came up, that there was a hundred percent confidence and trust within the team that they could figure it out. Aldo: And there's no reason that, uh, that we can't all tackle that problem. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, I agree. You know, it's when you start any business, and especially when you start a business from scratch with partners, there's challenges. And if you can't have good, clear, concise collaboration and communication. You guys are, you are. Wayne Marshall: It can just blow up and it can turn into a very disastrous, which nobody wants. I mean, obviously you did this not as a hobby, but to build it and create something that can become your career and something that has longevity and legacy to it based on past conversations that I know we've had. Um, so. Wayne Marshall: Thinking about that and as we just talked about you guys coming together, share a little bit of, you know, 'cause there's a many of people that we work with that are starting their business or their service industry, business from scratch, and they're trying to build it up. What was one or two really big challenges or growing pains or hurdles, however you wanna look at it, that you had to overcome in those early days when you started up. Freddy: Yeah, so we were definitely doing a lot of things wrong the first few months. The first few months we would be negative in the bank account every week and every month and many, many months. Lucas and I couldn't afford to pay ourselves anything. Um, we were definitely scraping through and a, a huge problem that we actually addressed early with, uh, the help of the institute was that, um. Freddy: We were working on too many cars, so we were working on too many cars and still negative in the bank account. What we realized was that we were undercharging and undervaluing our worth, um, and that would really, ultimately, ultimately even lead to, you know, miscommunications with clients, uh, time crunches that we could not meet. Freddy: And, uh, ultimately it was, it was hard for everybody, for us, and the clients included. Mm-hmm. Wayne Marshall: What would you add to that, Lucas? I'll let, uh, Aldo help cover. Aldo: Perfect. So Lucas: the, Aldo: uh, what Lucas has, has added to that is that, aside from the difficulties of overworking on cars and such was that, uh, they, there was no process yet on how to process customers from when they show up to when they leave. And they often felt like, uh, somewhat. A vote without a rudder. Right. Aldo: Or, or lost on what, what to do with the customers. And since they've been introduced to the institute, we've been able to bring a lot more process and framework into the organization where, uh, we can figure out what the next step or we know what the next step is. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. No, we, uh, I remember some of those first calls that we had and we're looking at. Everything that's going on, and I, I wanna tell a quick story because I love the story. Freddy and Lucas. Mm-hmm. Um, we had our very first call and you laid out and you were very transparent with the challenges. What was going on? Wayne Marshall: You, you know, the money in the bank and XXY. I mean, we just went through it and I can remember we said, well, I know I told you right away. I said, if, if you do anything. Raise your rate and raise your rate right now because you are, you are right. You're undervaluing, I believe what you're doing and your services. Wayne Marshall: So we talked and we left and uh, two weeks went by and we had our second phone call or second zoom call with you. And I remember you kept both, got on, you both had big smiles and I said, how's it going guys? Who were like, we got money in the bank, right? Because up until then it was a struggle. You didn't always have money in the bank. Wayne Marshall: And all of a sudden it's like, yeah, we've gone two weeks, we've been busy, and today we've paid all our bills and we still have money in the bank. Right? And it's the simple things of knowing your numbers. Aldo preaches it. When he talks to the advisors program, we talk about it and his stuff. It's, you gotta know your numbers and you gotta know where you're going and what you're doing. Wayne Marshall: So, um, yeah, it, it was, it brought a lot of joy to us to sit there and talk and see that, hey, we made a difference in the matter of two weeks, we moved the needle. But, you know, and I know that wasn't, that was only the beginning. There was a lot more we've done as we've been working through some of the things. Wayne Marshall: What are some of the key items that you felt have done the most for you, besides just raising your rate, but what are some of the key items that have paid the biggest dividends or done the most for you as you've been building out and fixing or putting the processes in place? Freddy: Yeah, so Lucas and I have actually been talking about this a lot lately, and there's, there's some things that we noticed from the very beginning that, um, was very helpful. Freddy: So, um. We found the institute on, uh, U2. We noticed a, a podcast that spoke about a parts matrix. Mm-hmm. And as soon as we, we implemented that, that gave us results right away and we were able to, um, see the benefit of it. And that's actually what led us to subscribing and then joining this team. When we had our meetings, um, you suggested that we get a, uh, different software programs. Freddy: So we ended up using Tech Metric that was able to consolidate and put a whole bunch of different, um, tools together that allowed us to save a ton of time. Uh, I remember focusing and I used to have to. Uh, use the parts matrix, but we'd have to use it, grab a calculator and put in every single number and every part number one by one and spend hours to create. Freddy: Once inro, it would be ridiculous time wasted, but as soon as we implemented, uh, type metric, we would save hours and be able to help a lot more people and do a lot more things like I, uh, dbis where we'd be able to send inspection reports and things like that. It looks more professional, it looks way more professional, and because it is. Aldo: Fantastic. So Aldo: parts matrix. Aldo: Fantastic. What a, what a what a great answer. And, uh, what a special team it is here based on, you know, what Lucas's response was. And Lucas is, uh, saying that he was a bit apprehensive about wanting to move forward on any kind of, not just training, but not knowing Sure. What move to make. And it, and Freddy really led the way in a very. Aldo: Good form, like a true leader moving forward in that the, that uh, the in coupled up with the institute, then Freddy and the Institute, then Lucas now being able to trust Freddy, that they're gonna make the right move in the right direction. Uh, it's that Freddy has been, uh, spearhead. The move forward and getting and then enrolling with the institute, which has given Lucas some more confidence in, in what he probably would've not held back on. Aldo: So that's huge. Wayne Marshall: It is. Well, I've, I've, I've said it to both of you before. I mean, I couldn't be more proud of the success, uh, the growth. Just how you've approached from, not that you guys didn't approach it with a level of professionalism, but it's been a lot of fun to work together. And what makes it so much fun is that as we continue to move and look back. Wayne Marshall: I mean they're, I mean it's like every month it's just up and up and up and up. The numbers just continue to improve. I know overall, operationally, just taking your average ro, it's up, your GP gross profit, it's up. Your parts margin, it's up. I mean, we can just keep going down the list. And what's so exciting is that as you see this, 'cause you guys are both in your twenties, you're young men and you've got so much in front of you. Wayne Marshall: And I'm gonna ask this question, we'll talk a little bit about it, but you got so much in front of you of what you can do that it's thrilling, at least for myself. And I think although you too, I mean, we get to live vicariously through your success. So when you get excited, I get excited, right? That's what makes this so much fun and why I was looking forward to having this conversation with you. Wayne Marshall: At the same time though, I think, you know, when I think of our audience and the people that do look in and listen and watch our webinars, there's always those nuggets because you know how hard it is to start a business. I don't care if you start in your twenties, thirties, forties, it's, it's hard. Aldo: Mm-hmm. Aldo: If Wayne Marshall: there's one or two key pieces of advice that you would now give as you look back 18 months, what would it be? Freddy: Man, that is a hard question, but there. There's something that I, I started actually telling people whenever, whenever anyone asks me, uh, any advice, I realized really quickly that you need a coach in any new area that you're gonna, um, adventure into the best way to get the results you want. Freddy: And then some who would be to find someone to guide you through it. Someone who's already taken those steps and can skip so many failures or, or open your eyes to see that you would've never seen. Yeah. Think that. That's the number one thing for me is to find a coach. Anybody to help in there? Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Well, a coach or you know, a mentor, you can call it because. Wayne Marshall: I shared, I've shared many stories with both of you guys that, you know, early in my career I was very blessed to be able to meet some gentlemen and different people, uh, that took an interest in me to help me and mentor me, people I could reach out to and talk to. So when I was in my twenties and thirties and I was starting my careers, these people were invaluable. Wayne Marshall: Now, sadly, because I was young and they were older, many have since passed away. So I always look at it as I've told you both. Now it's my turn. I'm now the older guy, so to speak, and I'm now the one who can help pay it forward for those who did it for me. So that's part of my thrill of working with both of you is seeing that I, you know, again, 'cause. Wayne Marshall: I'm a little older than both of you, but it's something that I can now give back and I can see the difference. And you're right. Um, I know what it did for me. I know Aldo, you and I have talked, you had some great mentors and people early in your career who you've shared their names and the things they did for you to get you to where you are today. Wayne Marshall: And there'll be a day, Freddy and Lucas, I challenge you. You're gonna have the opportunity to do it for somebody else. Absolutely. That'll be the challenge as you bring in that next young kid someday that wants to become tech or whatever in this industry, you're gonna be able to pay it forward to them also. Wayne Marshall: But I'll let, sorry, I'll let Lupus talk a little bit now and I'd be curious what he would say on it. Aldo: I we're gonna, we're gonna make it a little different. I'm gonna say if, if, if Lucas met Lucas from four years ago, what would Lucas say to to Lucas four years ago? Okay, so. Lucas: Repair shop. Aldo: Okay. Lucas said that if he were to meet Lucas four years ago, that uh, that he would say, you know, because you are a technician and you know how to work on vehicles, that doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to run a business. And, uh, do not, do not, uh, do not be, do not have any reservations about asking for help or some kind of coaching to help you learn about those things. Aldo: There's nothing wrong with it. Wayne Marshall: It's a, it's a humbling thing to be able to stop and realize I can't do and know everything. And it's not a sign of weakness if you gotta ask for help. To me, it's a sign of strength that you recognize. Where you can do something well and where you need to improve. And the better you do at recognizing those shortcomings. Wayne Marshall: 'cause again, we don't know. We don't know at times. And until we get an opportunity to have some of those discussions and that interaction, that's how you grow and that's how you challenge yourself to step up. And it's no different what you guys both said about early on in the business. You know, if we're gonna have disagreements, we have this, we gotta be, we gotta make the commit to each other to have those hard conversations so we can build and grow and create something with that, I'd be curious, I'd like to hear a little bit more because you've shared, but let's expand. Wayne Marshall: You've had good growth. You're doing real. You're obviously, 'cause you're still new and you're growing, but you're having the best year ever. You've had multiple record months because you just do better and better and better and better. Now we're starting to get ready to go into 26 and beyond. And I know you've shared a little bit in our conversations of what some of that looks like in top line revenue, which obviously trickles into other success of profitability. Wayne Marshall: But let's look even before that. Where do you guys wanna really go bigger, more locations, acquiring, changing your services, expanding into other things. Talk a little bit about what that future now starts to look like. Freddy: Yeah, so we definitely, we definitely dream a lot together and we have a lot of goals we wanna reach. Freddy: Uh, we'd love to have more shops. We wanna be able to open a whole bunch. And even for this one here in particular, we are excited for the day that we don't have to be inside the building. We're excited to be able to, um, own a shop that can run itself, be able to employ the right people to give the, the. Freddy: Right service to our customers and be able to trust that they'll be able to handle it and us be able to manage it from afar. That would be one of our ultimate goals. And then from there, being able to spend to more shops and, and, and just multiply that. Aldo: Mm-hmm. So, Lucas is, is seconding on what Freddy said and that, that, uh, the idea, it sounds like the, the, a big goal is to have the shop running like a well willed machine, right? Where they don't have to be present and you get to work on the business rather than in the business and, uh, to look at other opportunities. Wayne Marshall: It is gonna come. I, I have all the confidence. I think it's, it's just not a matter of if it's when, it's just a matter of some time, which is hard to sometimes be patient. As a young man, I've been, I had big goals and dreams. I was wanted a happen. Let's go, let's go. I wanted to get it done in the next month too. Wayne Marshall: But some of these things do take time. Right. The biggest thing I guess I would say that I've recognized with is the foundation you're building. You know, if you're gonna take these next steps and move up to these other things, be it another location, the better the foundation of what you're building today and getting all the processes and the procedures and just what it takes to service the customer or the marketplace. Wayne Marshall: It gets a lot easier to do number two, number three, number four. 'cause it's just more of the same. But if we build and we continue to build, I mean that's what I, we tell all of people who do scale. It's not, you know, it's not that hard. If we build the right foundation, then it's easy to start building on top of it and continue to, to grow it up there. Wayne Marshall: Um. As you know, being a business owner is different, as you've already talked a little bit about, is much different than working in the business. Now you're having to work on the business. If you could give a piece of advice to a young entrepreneur or someone who's wanting to, maybe there's a tech listening today and they're thinking, I think I could do my own thing and do what you guys did. Wayne Marshall: If you could give them some advice as a young person, as you guys are, what would that be? Freddy: Oof. That's another, that's another really hard question. Um, ah, we actually had someone who, who did ask us a very similar question. Um, he needs, he needs to be prepared. Uh, there's, there's a lot coming. Um, and to be really honest, a lot of it is, is really financial. Freddy: So I think there's a huge. Financial aspect that you have to be prepared for. And actually what I told him was that you, you're gonna wanna pay a coach so you or someone to mentor you, or a guide or anyone who's already been there. Um, because again, there's, there's so much that you don't know, that you don't know because there's just, just really is. Freddy: And I think that that's a really important thing. I, I just echo what I said before that, that that's the number one thing. Aldo: That's a great point. Lucas said that, uh, what he would advise a, a somebody is to be, uh, patient and to, uh, be ready to be prepared and not only prepared for what's to come as far as the work part of it, but uh, prepared for a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, trial and error. Meaning don't get discouraged. It happens to everybody. Aldo: Everybody trips and falls. And to be okay with that and be patient, patient with what's happening and patient with yourself so that you don't get overwhelmed, it's good. Wayne Marshall: No, it is good advice. 'cause it is. We are gonna make a mistake. We are gonna have some failure. Um, you know, it's, it's just an opportunity to learn, you know, it, the, the character building aspect of it is not so much always what happened. Wayne Marshall: It's what we do next and what we choose to do next. And I know it's no different than the conversations we've had. The story you just shared, Freddy of, uh, we had a challenging customer and client. And didn't know if you're gonna be able to work together as you went forward. And you know, we discuss. But what was great is that you didn't deviate from your, your integrity, what you wanted to do, the ethics of how to run the business. Wayne Marshall: And by standing on that and maintaining that foundational aspect, what happened? He left. But then it came back because you stood on the right grounds. And when you do things with the right intentions, you do it with that honor. As we've already talked, even though you'll have mistakes and things like this happen, what was that conversation like and what happened when he called you back up and he says, can we start at a fresh slate and let's just rebuild? Wayne Marshall: Mm-hmm. Doing the right thing. It's, it's painful sometimes, but if you do it right and you do it with honor, and we had that whole conversation, how do you, you know, deal with a challenging customer? More times than not, you will end up on the right side of this. And that's the toughest lesson I had to learn as a young person. Wayne Marshall: And I think it's really cool how much you've already learned at an age. I didn't know it yet. I learned some of what you're learning in my thirties. You guys are so far ahead of me, just think of where you're gonna be. Freddy: But yeah, no, that, that was huge. We, that was really important and that it really was a, a testament that, um, if we do the right thing, we put the right foot forward. Freddy: People will notice and people do really appreciate good work. If anyone, that's something else that that's, that's good advice. If you do good work, that people will notice and you'll get recognized for it. You just have to give it some time. Aldo: It does. Aldo: Same. See? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, they just, that, uh, that, um, through that Lucas is an agreement that through the, um, following, being, setting up guidelines and making sure that you don't deviate from your process and you have a good foundation of how you want the business to run that eventually, uh, the people that didn't fit in the picture in the beginning come back and now they wanna fit in the picture. Wayne Marshall: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, they see it. So again, that's, I think that's really good advice that we've discussed. I know you've embraced it and it, I mean, I loved hearing the story when you shared to the guy left. He basically said he was never gonna come back. I said, you know what? That's a kind of business he had. Wayne Marshall: You don't need it. But he did come back and he came back with a little bit more, uh. Respect or appreciation for what you stood for and what you're gonna do and deliver. So. I complimented you on it. First time I compliment you. Again, it's hard to do that when you're growing and you need, and you want every customer, you want all the business. Wayne Marshall: But you've realized, just as you said early on, I think it's a really important statement to make for our audience to understand is, is that. You had a lot of cars at one time, but not all business is good business. Mm-hmm. And volume, why it looks good on paper at the end of the day doesn't necessarily make you money. Wayne Marshall: No, it doesn't. So it's being smarter and being wiser of the type of business you get. And that's why I know one of the early things we talked about from an operational standpoint is have a good intake. You know, get the appointment, get the customer in everything that Aldo talks about from an advisor standpoint, you know, get a good intake, get the customer in, get the information, get an understanding now, gives you guys an opportunity to do a good inspection and, and come back with a nice deliverable. Wayne Marshall: What their car needs and how to go about it, and how to build that relationship, which builds trust. You know, in this industry sometimes our, our industry isn't looked at very favorably that we can be, you know, a, a business that is not of the highest integrity. But that's what we wanna do. We wanna be, and it's something we talk about, you guys talk about already. Wayne Marshall: We wanna be a company of character and we wanna be such that people trust and they see and they come to us because that's what's really gonna help grow and change that mindset of people as they do look at. What a repair shop does and how they treat people. You're not doing that. You're not doing it at all. Wayne Marshall: So, um, we Freddy: actually, we just had a conversation right, right before this call, and sorry to interrupt you. We just had a conversation with the client before this call. It's exactly what you said. Um, he mentioned it. What we delivered was far beyond what any other repair shop does. Uh, we. Sent videos, photos, inspection report of everything that we suggested that the, the customer get to keep his vehicle in tip top shape. Freddy: Um, and it weren't twisting his arm or anything like that. It was a simple presentation so that he knew exactly what's going on in his vehicle and he appreciated that because he said that his family mechanic goes ahead and just repairs. What he thinks needs to be repaired, not what the client says. So what we really like to do is give the, the client the power, give them a chance to know what's going on. Freddy: And really, it's a, it's a, it's a business to client relationship that we need to respect and, and really care for. Wayne Marshall: So now, you know, and, and this, the time goes by quick as we're fast approaching, kind of getting a little closer to the end here. I'm curious. I know, uh. Personally, I know some things that you've shared, Freddy, I know you don't have any children at this point. Wayne Marshall: Lucas does. Mm-hmm. Is there gonna be a second generation, other generation, and would that be a goal, an aspiration to uh, have your family engaged and more involved? Aldo: Yeah. Lucas says that it, it's something that's crossed his mind. His son's only two years old, so there's a, there's a long ways between there and or here and then for now. Right. And that and that. Uh, but he definitely knows that there's gonna be a, a, uh, that the automotive industry is gonna live. As long as we know forever, right? Aldo: Yes. And there'll always be some kind of employment or something there for, Aldo: and Lucas says that his son also loves, uh, toy cars. So maybe it's, it's already, it's already, it is blood. Aldo: That he Lucas: loves to go Aldo: play, uh, you know, cars out in the, out, out in the driveway and such. Wayne Marshall: I know we, we laugh guys, but um, as you know, I've got, I only had daughters who are now married, but I got grandkids. I got a grandson. And at an earlier age, since I. On cars and have my own home shop and everything he loves. Wayne Marshall: And, and this started at seven, eight years of age, I would let him take things apart that I knew I was never gonna put back together anyway, so I didn't care. But that's how you learn. And at a very young age. I mean, he was only eight years of age and I'm already putting him in my skid steer. I'm teaching him to do other things. Wayne Marshall: Uh, he's now 12. He can drive a manual transmission, I mean, on their property. I'm not on the road do that, you know? But it is a cool, and it's a great industry and it can be very rewarding. So you never know. You might be two today. Aldo: Yeah, but Wayne Marshall: just wait. You'll be surprised when he is five and six and he goes, dad, I wanna tear that apart and see how it works. Wayne Marshall: S I've let my grandson do it. It's coming. I've let my grandson do it already. That's how they learn. That's how I learn. Aldo: If, if I may ask a question, we'll start with Lucas. Would that be okay? Yeah. Lucas. Aldo: Perfect. So I asked Lucas what, uh, what his expectations were before they enrolled with the institute and what they were of the institute. And he said that realistically he never would've thought that he would, they would gain, they would cover so much ground so quickly, and that in the early part of the business, it seemed like a black hole. Aldo: They could never get out of, and they were surviving month to month and month. So they've been, so, Lucas and I, I imagine Freddie too has been blown away by the amount of, uh, about, by the amount of change they've been able to make so quickly and in such a positive way. Hmm. Wayne Marshall: Let, I'll give Freddie anything else you wanna add to that real quick or, Freddy: yeah. Freddy: So. Truthfully, the, the thing that I, I hoped for was profitability, and we got that, but there's way more, way more than that. What we got was so much growth, um, mental growth. We learned so much. And I told you Wayne, recently, I think on our last call that something that I've really gotten from you guys, and I've been talking with Lucas and our service advisor, Alicia, was that. Freddy: The amount of discipline that I see, like radiating off of, of the both of you and how much it's affected the way that we wanna do things here. It's made us so much more productive, so much more motivated, and again, just disciplined and able to, to just get things done that need to get done. Wayne Marshall: Thank you. Wayne Marshall: Mm-hmm. It's very, and I, I know, uh, in our conversations that, and it's just how it happens. I mean, we've, we've talked about. So much and we get very. Uh, personal about your business, you know, your lives, all the things that are going on, because what you're doing and starting a business, it touches and affects everything. Wayne Marshall: I mean, everything that you're doing and how you're doing it. Um, yes, it, it's very, and I said it earlier, it's very rewarding to be able to work with you guys to see the results and to see the growth of that you guys are both having on a personal and professional. Um. Yeah, I'm honored that, you know, even though we might talk a lot of business, both of you guys, we end up talking family. Wayne Marshall: You've asked me other questions that go above and beyond, um, right. I guess that's what happens when you become an elder statesman, I guess is how you can look at it. So, uh, for that I say, Hey, I'm blessed to say thank you for those kind words, but it's exciting and I'm you bright, bright. Wayne Marshall: Freddy as his or, uh, Lucas, excuse me, as his family grows, you know, you just have a newer baby that wasn't that many months ago. And now Freddy, you're gonna grow because you're soon gonna be getting married. And, uh, yes, and, and another exciting step in life. And it's great to be able to be part of that journey with you and all these different things that go on and, uh, yeah. Wayne Marshall: We're just excited for and I'm, and it's been awesome to be able to do what we're doing even today. And because I know Lucas, your English is getting better and better and better, but it's been awesome to have, although we part of, and to be able to have these conversations in Spanish that we can truly all come together, work together, and make good things happen. Wayne Marshall: So guys, I can't thank you enough for taking the almost one hour of your time outta your busy day because you're not a large shop and I know you guys are really hands on for your success and where you're going and, uh, yeah, this is exciting. So thank you very much and I thank the audience for being with us and, uh, attending and listening. Wayne Marshall: Hopefully there are some nuggets here that can, uh, be helpful. Freddy: Yeah, hope so. Thank you guys for everything. It's, it's been a pleasure to, to be on. Wayne Marshall: Nope. Alright, friends, have a great time. Again. Good luck, good holidays, and we'll be talking a lot more soon. Thank you. Thank.

179 -Ask Me Anything: The State of the Industry and Private Equity’s Impact - Featuring Cecil Bullard & Michael Smith December 10, 2025 - 00:57:47   Show Summary: Private equity and family offices are accelerating consolidation in automotive repair, and Cecil Bullard and Michael Smith explain what that means for shop owners. They break down valuation multiples by shop size, profit, and owner dependence, and why true scale commands higher returns. The conversation also covers shared corporate offices, cooperative style partnerships, and how structure and SOPs can reduce risk while improving consistency. They stress that pricing, labor rates, and leadership development are key to attracting talent and building an investable business. Operators who build teams and value propositions will thrive, while price focused shops will struggle or disappear in 2026.   Host(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer   Show Highlights:   [00:01:10] – Cecil opens the discussion on industry consolidation and growing interest from private equity and family offices. [00:07:45] – Michael explains how shop size, owner involvement, and profit margins impact valuation multiples. [00:15:30] – The realities of small-shop valuations and why tools and equipment add little resale value. [00:23:40] – What it truly takes to reach higher multiples through scale, systems, and leadership teams. [00:32:20] – Why private equity is struggling to find enough well-run, scalable automotive businesses. [00:41:10] – The benefits and risks of shared corporate offices and co-op style shop groups. [00:52:00] – A candid discussion on labor rates, pricing fear, and the industry’s undervaluation of its work. [01:06:30] – Succession planning realities when selling to family members or key employees. [01:20:15] – Looking ahead to 2026: why opportunity favors shops that build value, not just fix cars.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4Uq2lWjvxoc Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Cecil Bullard: Good morning in some parts of the country, I think. Um, my name is Cecil Bullard. I am the founder of the Institute, uh, and I have with me today, uh, Michael Smith, who is our chief strategist. And, uh, I would also say, um, presenter, extraordinaire. Um, Michael, welcome. Thank you, sir. Uh, this is an ask me anything. Cecil Bullard: So if you are online with us and you want to ask questions, please uh, um, put 'em in the comments and we will, uh, bring them in and do our best to get, uh, the answers. Um, today, I think, uh, I'd like to start us out. However, uh, kind of talking about this, um, this idea of the, the. Venture capitalists coming in and kind of taking over, uh, the industry. Cecil Bullard: Consolidation is, is what we, we have, um, you know, Michael, I think you and I have known each other now about three years, three and a half years, and I think you're coming up on two years with the institute. Michael Smith: Two, two Cecil Bullard: and a Michael Smith: half Cecil Bullard: already. Can you believe it? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Oh, time flies when you're having fun, right? Cecil Bullard: When you're having fun when you get younger every day. Um. Let's, let's go back to maybe two years ago and, and compare, uh, you know, venture capital is definitely coming in to the, to the industry. Uh, I probably have, uh, five or six, um, inquiries from mainly at this point, uh, what they call, what they call 'em, a family practice. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. Family, uh, family office, uh, four, uh. Potential purchase of the institute because they want to be in the vertical. Um, and they often talk about the vertical. Um, and then I also get, I don't know, probably somewhere between eight and 12, uh uh. Things from venture capital, uh, venture capital companies that are inquiries. Cecil Bullard: In fact, I think I have a conversation tomorrow with one of them. Uh, you know, hey, we're in Canada and we're trying to consolidate up here in Canada, and uh, you know, we've kind of looked you up and we think you know a lot of stuff, so we'd like to talk to you. Um, often that leads to a, um. A quote unquote job opportunity on either on the board or as some kind of a, um, uh. Cecil Bullard: Consultant to them, uh, you know, for the marketplace. So go back two years ago and, and, uh, think about, you know, where the industry, we thought the industry was going, where the industry is going, and then now look at it today. And, and tell me your thoughts on Cecil Bullard: Sure. Cecil Bullard: You know, on, on that. Michael Smith: Yeah. It's very interesting and in fact, if you'll indulge me, I wanna back up about a decade just for the start if we can, and go back to the very first private equity guys that showed up, um, at the table. Michael Smith: And they were, they had a vision. Knowing in this industry, we were headed in the direction of what 50, 60 other industry verticals have gone down. The first one's on the ground, maybe the one we all know best, is Sun Automotive out of Phoenix. Put a stake in the ground, decade ish ago, something in that neighborhood. Michael Smith: Mm-hmm. Cecil Bullard: 10, 12 years. Yeah. Michael Smith: Yeah, something like that. And they bought a, you know, reasonably smallish local shop that was underway and had some local presence and, and started, and the idea was to add to, to, those are, those are called the, uh, the, the baseline or the, uh, the, the platform companies that you start with. Michael Smith: And then they make investments from there. And the idea is to just add scale. Scale, uh, takes your multiple up on an exponential basis when you go to sell the business. So there's a game afoot where the mom and pops and I hesitate to call us that 'cause I don't want to offend anybody with that. But from an investment perspective, we are a mom and pop industry, meaning we're mostly small, mostly privately held, mostly owner operated. Michael Smith: And then the idea is to come sweeping in, buy up some kind of a regional. Starting presence of five to 10 to 15 shops and then sell it to a bigger fish who then rolls up four or five of those and goes on. So that started decade ish ago with Sun. We knew it was coming. It's not a big surprise. Part of the reason I'm in this industry at this point was a decade ago, I got introduced to a three shop company that wanted to do something different. Michael Smith: And so I kind of watched it coming. And so what happened was there was this great expectation that our industry was gonna roll up quickly. And it hasn't gone as quickly as we thought. And Cecil, now I'm gonna kind of jump into the next five to two years to kind of where we are today. Yeah, brother, go ahead. Michael Smith: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: before you, before you go there, I want to clarify a couple of things. Okay? Sure. So you talked about the multiple. And so if I have one shop. Uh, net, uh, 10 or 12%. Um, and I am involved in the business day to day, uh, and, uh, business isn't really growing much, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Uh, what's my multiple? Okay. Cecil Bullard: And I know that I know that answer, but. You know? Yeah. Michael Smith: Yeah. It depends on where your shop is. First of all. If you're in a geographic region where there's immediate distance, uh, geographic growth available for expansion is different than if you're rural. But let's just say you're in sort of the middle of all that. Michael Smith: Um, you would get, maybe if it's, you know, I'm gonna say this, and this is part of what's surprised private equity in any industry vertical, you would imagine that may be the middle of the bell curve. Would be a seven to 8% profit margin. Maybe this 80th percentile would be a 12 to 15% profit margin in the top shops or top companies in that industry. Michael Smith: Depending on the industry, if you're in the retail, groceries, margins aren't that high, but an industry like ours, in the trades that are profitable, you could expect a 25, 30% profit margin, top 10%. Ours is a harder business than that. So I'm, I'm, I'm gonna get to the answer to your question, the middle of the bell curve. Michael Smith: So when I, I guess what I'm saying is when you're saying a 10 to 12% profit margin, you're not talking about a 50th percent company? No, that's on the, that's on the higher end. It's on the way higher end of our bell curve. And so when, my, my point is when they look in, the average shop will get a two and a half to two and three quarter ebitda. Michael Smith: Or, um, let's, let's use net and EBITDA interchangeably. They are different numbers. EBITDA is a financial net number, which is more pure, if you will, but we use net. So let's talk nets, right? The average company at the top of our bell curve, halfway through the 235,000 companies, is a two to 3% profit margin. Michael Smith: It's got two to three employees, and the owner doesn't take home a paycheck every day. So when we're talking about. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, so I'm making, I'm making, you know, net 40, net 50, maybe net 60,000. I've got a 60, 80,000 paycheck with the truck and insurance and gas and whatever else I, I managed to bill for from myself. Cecil Bullard: Um, you know, and, uh, and I'm gonna get a two, two and a half x maybe. Michael Smith: You're gonna get, you get a two and a half X. And, and if you, and here's, here's what's gonna hold you back. Here's what's gonna be in your favor, that your nets are higher than normal. Here's what's not gonna hold you in favor, is the fact that you're still deep up to your neck in the business. Michael Smith: And we have Cecil Bullard: talked, yeah. Yep. And so I don't, I, I don't want to dig way, way deep here. I just want to kinda set the, set the stage. All right. So, so I've got a business that's doing let's say 650,000, two techs. By the way, that should be a million dollar, million, two business, two techs. But, but I know shops and I know that many shops are stuck in the 6 57 range with two techs in their shop. Cecil Bullard: And, uh, my net is, uh. You know, three, four, 5%. I'm, I'm, I'm going to be lucky at that point to get a two and a half X, so you'll be lucky Michael Smith: to get two and a half. Yes, sir. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So I have this shop that, and then I think that my parts and my, and my, my tools, these, these tools that I've spent so much money on over my lifetime, et cetera, I, I'm thinking, well, geez, I've got two, $300,000 worth of tools at least, and right on. Cecil Bullard: Accept, accept they're worth. 10 cents on the dollar in a, in a buy. Right? That's not where I get my, my value. All right? So that's, that's a And by the way, that's what we would call a small business, right? Yeah. Um, the mom and pop, right? Yep. And then, and then we move up to, let's, let's say that, uh, let, I'm doing 1,000,005, all right? Cecil Bullard: And I'm net 10%, plus I, I get a salary out of the business and I'm kind of not. Um. That involved. I mean, I'm not like writing service every single day. I'm still helping the master tech when he can't figure something out. I'm still writing some of the tickets. I'm still involved with the, maybe we're, we're homegrown our financials, uh, you know, et cetera, and so now I'm gonna sell that business. Cecil Bullard: Right? Yep. I'm still probably at the most of three x, Michael Smith: three to three and a quarter. Here's the extra quarter. If you really aren't in the business and you really are working on it, meaning you can disappear for a week and nothing really substantially changes, if you have growth from revenue and profit on top of the three, you might get to a three and a quarter. Michael Smith: They, you know, growth is a good thing in the investment business. You wanna buy a growing business, not a shrinking one. Quality of leadership, stability of team. If you have high turnover, if you have toxic people in leadership, if you've got a problem that an investor's gonna buy, you know, they may walk in and say, tell you what look like, love the numbers. Michael Smith: I'll give you three and a quarter for the business contingent upon the due diligence study. And that's, it's a lot like, Cecil Bullard: and when you're saying three and a quarter, we're not talking about three, $3,250,000. We're talking about 3.5 x of my net or EBITDA your net. Right. Right. Yeah. So, so now let one more step, we're gonna have a question here in a minute, but I love it. Cecil Bullard: I, I just kind of wanna follow this for a second. Mm-hmm. Now, um, I've got a business doing say, 4 million. And we're net 20, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, I'm netting 20, I'm netting a million dollars or 800,000 out of this business. Uh, I'm not working in the business at all. Mm-hmm. Really? Uh, I'm managing my managers right. Cecil Bullard: And, uh, and that's a, we're gonna call that one shop. It could be two two $2 million shops, but we'll call it one. And now I'm gonna sell that. Uh, uh, in the marketplace. What, what is the, you know, what's the X? We're we talking maybe four X? Michael Smith: Maybe four. I'd say it'd be a real stretch to get to four, and again, this feels like real scale from our single shop perspective that we tend to run. Michael Smith: Historically at the finance investment level, you're still very, very, very small. And those numbers are a lot better than what, see, so what we started with, they're a lot better, but they're not gonna scale you to higher multiples yet. So maybe three and a half, maybe three and three quarters. If you can demonstrate stability over time in these things. Michael Smith: Getting the fours, I mean, maybe, maybe, right? If, if I Cecil Bullard: wait for the, if everything's perfect to put the right plan together. If, if, if I wait long enough, et cetera, I may not have the, the runway to, to wait. Um, but absolutely that's still, by the way, that's still small business. It's still very small business period, right? Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. So now, now, now I've got four locations and each location is doing say, $2 million. I'm doing eight, maybe 10 million. I'm still net 20. 22, 24. I'm not involved in that business. On a day-to-day basis. I have an area manager. I have managers in the stores, et cetera, et cetera, four. Four and a half x, five x that, Michael Smith: no, I'd say four, four and a half would be the range you're looking at. Michael Smith: And it feels like we're growing a lot and crawling slowly, and that is absolutely true. Cecil Bullard: So one of the things, one of the things that I've, I've recognized is, is. We that I, I know some deals that have been done where there were 10 x, 12 x, uh, and some other opportunities in that, in the, in those deals, and I know you were involved in, in one of those. Cecil Bullard: We're not gonna, like, we won't mention names and all of that stuff, but, but I don't see as many of those happening. As I thought I would see happening at this point in time, Michael Smith: I think the private equity guys are not seeing, they are, uh, Cecil, there is a trillion and almost a half dollars of, of what they call a dry powder out there, a trillion and a half dollars in investors hands. Michael Smith: And these are big investors all the way down to small that can't find projects. So, so let me just say, to start my comment, they're dying for us to have projects, but here's where we don't have them. We don't have scaled 10 plus location type companies, 20 locations, 40 locations, 60 locations that they can sink their teeth into and get into with a 10 to 12 to 13, maybe even a 15 times ebitda because we haven't built that kind of scale yet. Michael Smith: And so the challenge, yeah, brother, go ahead. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cecil Bullard: So one of the things that you did in, in what you did was you brought five smaller players together and created a 40 location ish, right. Right offering, which moved the X up considerably. Michael Smith: Yeah. They immediately gained scale from each other by coming together into a group. Michael Smith: Now, there's a downside to that too, is that the PE guys, the private equity investors are buying five different transactions in its. Single transaction, if that makes sense. So the complication of implementation is multiplied by five within a single project so that the multiples aren't as high as if you had a single company that brought 40, 50 locations to the table. Michael Smith: Right. And so there's pros and cons to all of this. Yes, sir. Cecil Bullard: And so what I, what I really kind of want to talk about here, and I, I still don't see the question. Maybe it's 'cause my glasses aren't, are, aren't good enough. But, but, um. If I'm a small business and I'm doing not a great job, um, I might be worth two x. Cecil Bullard: Okay? 2.2, 2.4, right? If I'm a medium sized automotive shop, uh, million five, 2 million, uh, I might be worth three and a half x. Uh, if I'm a, uh, multi-location doing 10 million, I might be worth. Four and a half X and uh, I'd have to be a 40 to 50 or a combination where I brought in 40 or 50 shops with the right revenue in order to get an eight x, a 10 x and maybe even a 12 x. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Yep. And so what I have not seen is these companies that, that are out there buying shops, like talk about Sun. They went crazy twice. Alright? They dumped a bunch of money. Uh, and then a few years later, they dumped a bunch more money into the Phoenix area. Bought up a few hundred shops in that area, and now they seem to be, uh. Cecil Bullard: Not stalled, but certainly their growth is not, I think what they thought their growth was gonna be. Right. And there are fewer and fewer shops for them to buy. So I'm looking, uh, yesterday I got an an ad for a a four bay shop. I happen to know where it is. I happen to know who used to own it. But that shop is for sale for nickels. Cecil Bullard: I mean, nickels, I could go buy it tomorrow. And that's, that, that's 'cause I got a couple of nickels and that's it. You know, if it was dimes, I'd be in trouble. Um, but nobody's buying it. Okay. Because it doesn't have any real value because it doesn't have the organization, the structure, the systems, the process, the, the, the clients. Cecil Bullard: Right. And what I'm think, I'm, what I'm, what I'm thinking is happening in our industry is a separation of these are the good shops. These are the shops that are not so good. And even in that, I think the smart investor, uh, whether it's private equity or family office or whatever, they're not buying the not so good shops. Cecil Bullard: No. Because they don't see a path through those shops to where they need, where they want to go. Michael Smith: They're not buying. They're, yeah. Let me, and let me just build on something where we're talking about here. Suns, every private equity project would like to start with what? With this platform company in a geographic region. Michael Smith: So region, right? So you'd like to have, yeah, so, so Phoenix, uh, Atlanta, whatever, 10, 20, 30 shops in a big city, and you buy that thing right up front and now you have a presence in the city so that you pay a big price for the owner, founder. Operators tend not to go away in those, they become partners in the private equity project at that point. Michael Smith: They become Cecil Bullard: private equity investors in their own lives. Michael Smith: They do in their own companies, and they don't go away because here's the theory, that 30 shop system becomes the system that you then buy 10 shop systems until the market's empty. Then you buy five shop systems till the market's empty. Then you buy two shop systems and each of those, Cecil, back to our point, are getting less sophisticated, more work and implementation, A lot more upgrade needed to become. Michael Smith: To the level of the private equity project. And so the scale, the value of those companies, your regional investment there is going down over time as you add scale and you're dumping that work and, and it's not a bad, in a bad way, it's an intentional way on the shoulders of the platform, people who are on the ground there. Michael Smith: And so they may keep all the separate brands for a while of all the acquisitions, but over time the original brand on the ground will be rebranded there in the region or the private equity. Overall brand will be rebranded across the board. That's what's, those are the iterations that Sun went through. Michael Smith: They would buy a 2030 shop system if they could find it in a region, and then they end up at some point buying onesies and twosies that aren't at the same level of their investments. But that's all that's left in a market. That's Yeah, that's the natural close. That's the Cecil Bullard: drags, right? The Michael Smith: drags are there. Michael Smith: Well, yeah, and we don't even wanna call 'em that because it's just, it's just. Yeah. No, no, I'm with you and I'm, I'm not being critical of the word. It's a, there are, there are great shops that are, single shops that are run on a one-off basis, that are running consistent growth over time. Have a very strong team. Michael Smith: The owner is sitting and maintaining a, a good leadership team that runs it for them. But, Cecil Bullard: but you're still not gonna get a eight x outta that you, no, you're not. And those Michael Smith: are few and far between. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. Right. Michael Smith: So no matter where you're. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cecil Bullard: I, I, I got this weird, like, uh, there's a, there's a trillion and a half dollars worth of powder in the gun, you know, and, and there's all these shops that are closing and or disappearing or being sold for the, for the littlest of money to the service advisor or the ex-partner or whatever. Cecil Bullard: And, and I thought. I thought, you know, two years ago I thought, oh my gosh, uh, private equity's gonna come in and just suck those up, right? Um, uh, so, uh, gimme the incoming question. Uh, uh. What are your thoughts on sharing a corporate office with other like-minded shop owners? That, by the way, that's from isa, uh, Tola. Cecil Bullard: I hope I got that right, uh, from pronunciation. And that is like the perfect, uh, the perfect question because that's what we have, uh, are working on, and that's what you've already accomplished. So I'll let you, I'll let. Answer that better than I. Yeah, that's, Michael Smith: that's a great question and let me, let me run with it. Michael Smith: The idea here is that if, if you have a, like as I mentioned before, if you have a single organization with a leadership team that's been in place long enough to prove that it's a real leadership team, which has then comes with it, a centralized corporate office, you have the best chance of getting the best multiple in the market that you're in. Michael Smith: A step along the way, ISA or, or Issa, I'm not sure how you pronounce it, is what you're talking about. If you had other shops and you started to build a sort of a co-op of some of the things that you could share together, you're on track to potentially having. Uh, if you will, a co-op of shops that could go to market together. Michael Smith: The co-op of shops is what we took to market with the project that I did. The best Deal those guys could have made, and we talked about it, was to have them become a single company with a single leadership group and a single set of, you know, down to the grinding level of SOPs, right? Doing it all the same way with single systems and all. Michael Smith: That. Here's the risk you take though, and, and this is what we're here for, right? To look at the pros and the cons of this. The pros are you do that, you get your best outcome. The cons are what if by the time you're done building a couple things, bad can happen, right? Some of the partners that get into this don't do their. Michael Smith: Their piece. Anybody in school remember doing team projects? Yeah. And some of the people didn't do any work at all and some people did a whole, all the rest of the work to get the grade. This is what you run up against, right? So here's the risk is that you put all that cost into building a single entity, then it doesn't function because you don't have control anymore. Michael Smith: Huge issue in our is in businesses, you are the owner operator, you make all the decisions. And one of my first conversations with folks doing all this rollup stuff is you realize that when you make this transaction, you ain't the boss anymore. And they're like, what? And it's like, no, you don't have 51% of your company anymore. Michael Smith: Now you have a committee. Now you have a board. Now you may have a controlling group that isn't you. Who's gonna tell you ultimately what you're gonna do, whether you like it or not. If push comes to shove and people are like, well, wait, I'm, I can't work for anybody else. I'm the master of my destiny. The reason I have this shop is 'cause I don't want to be a, you know, an employee. Michael Smith: It's like, well, that's. Big mindset to get your head around. So back to the question, shared services are fantastic and shared services are a good first step toward kicking the tires on your, on your potential future business partners. Another thing to do is to have a peer group locally of your potential business partners, where you guys spend time building relationships with each other. Michael Smith: Have it be a local peer group of very select people where you guys help each other improve each other's businesses. The background gain in that is that you're standardizing the way you do things by best practice over time. That gets you closer to being able to roll it up into a, into a roll up local, uh, single operation that you could sell to. Michael Smith: Private equity for the multiple right scale gets you higher multiples in private equity. I also Cecil Bullard: think, I also think you're driving. Um, performance. Um, because when you're comparing yourself against, you know, other like shops and you're saying, uh, you know, well, wait a minute. You raised your labor rate $25 an hour. Cecil Bullard: I can raise my labor rate, and by the way, I'm gonna go 30 because I'm gonna be higher than you, blah, blah, blah. We see this happen like, uh, where there's a kind of a competitive nature to the group, uh, and a competitive nature, which, which does at least subtly have a tendency to drive result, right? Yep. Uh, other, other than I'm kind of in this world by myself. Cecil Bullard: Um, and I, I've got my own blinders on because I don't know what I don't know. Michael Smith: Now there's a danger. I wanna speak to a danger zone right here, which is the danger of having price and, uh, market conversations with, uh, companies that could be considered fixing. If you're not careful, and this is not dodging the rules, it's being aware of them, right? Michael Smith: If you're in a pure group scattered across the country and you're comparing labor rates, it's a lot safer. Within an industry then if you have a concentration of people in the same town having the same conversation, you, I'm not saying you're, you're playing any games here with the law. I'm saying we don't. Michael Smith: Right. We need to be aware Cecil Bullard: of So you as, as a consultant. Okay. I, I have labor rate has been one of my big, um, things because, you know, um, uh, I took labor aid from 1980. Uh, where I was in Palm Springs, California, and I multiplied that times 3%, uh, every year until, I don't know, this year. And, um, the labor rate I would have today is about, it's real close to two 70. Cecil Bullard: It's like 2 68 in change an hour. Mm-hmm. And yet the industry average, I think the last survey that was done was 1 28. Right. Right. So we're. At least probably 30, 35, maybe even 50% below where we really ought to be as an industry. And it's almost like we're afraid to have a labor rate conversation because we're afraid that somebody's listening and they're gonna say, you know, I'm, I raise my labor rate. Cecil Bullard: You should probably raise yours, the, the whole industry. Can't, we can't build, we can't bring good techs in. We can't afford to pay them the, what they need to be paid. I'm getting these things from shops and he's, Hey, do you, what do you think? I'm gonna hire A-A-A-A-C Tech. I'm gonna pay that guy $22 an hour. Cecil Bullard: My range is between 22 and 24. Well, well wait a minute. McDonald's is paying 27. Yep. So, so how am I gonna get a tech, you know, other than somebody that's either not very bright mm-hmm. Or somebody that just loves cars. Right. And, and they want to do it no matter what it takes. How are we gonna fill the gap if we can't pay a living wage to the people coming into our industry? Cecil Bullard: Right. And we can't pay a living wage 'cause we don't charge enough to pay a living wage. Well, the guy down the street, you know, he's, he's only at a hundred bucks an hour and we got, uh, I, I was, um, I have a couple of storage units move the house. We put some stuff in storage and I'm moving outta one of the storage units this weekend. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, I'm there most of the day. Saturday, on and off, like four or five times we made trips close the storage unit out. There's a guy. Working out of a storage unit, two units down, and he works on three cars that day. He's doing automotive service and repair out of a storage unit. Right. Mm-hmm. And I know that has not, there's Cecil's A DHD kicking in right here I am. Cecil Bullard: Woo. Way. We're here. But, but I don't care, um, what your labor rate is. I just know that your labor rates that, that our labor rates have to go up in this industry. Or we are gonna have a lot of shops that are just gonna be gone. Michael Smith: Well, and let me, let me lean into the backside of what you're saying too. I'm gonna take it to a strategic level. Michael Smith: I believe I'm, I've been in this industry a decade at this point, after 35 years before that. You can't be that old. You can't be that old. I know. I'm actually older than you are. I don't tell anybody. Right. So, no, but I, but, but here's my point. We, um, I think we have a, a, a self-image issue in our industry. Michael Smith: And I'm gonna say it straight up to everybody listening here. I, I wish you knew how much I think of you having grown up in 50 other industry verticals in the big consulting firms. When I work with my clients, the single shop folks, the triple shop folks in this industry, I tell y'all all the time, you guys are some of the best business people I've ever met in my life. Michael Smith: And, and I get these looks across the table like, you're, you're joshing me, right? This is a joke. Is this a dad joke? That there's a punchline coming? It's like, no. This is a fact. The, the business we all run here is one of the most complicated businesses in the world that I've had my fingers on. Again, 50 60 industry verticals consideration. Michael Smith: And I'm gonna tell you that when this, this, when you do this business, well you, I, I tell people all the time, you give me 10 top shop owners, I'll put 'em up against a sweet C-suite in any Fortune 100 company on a, on a competition basis, and we're gonna win. And you guys look back at me like I'm from another planet. Michael Smith: I am telling you the truth. And I say that from the standpoint when we look at the marketplace and downgrade our thinking that, well, they couldn't possibly pay that much in the market. I'm, I'm telling you straight up, if your value proposition not competing on price. We had a microeconomic conversation. Michael Smith: I would tell you every time, do not compete locally in your market on the basis of low price. Don't do it. There's only one winner in that game. It's the cheapest price and everybody playing that game's on your way out of the industry. What I will say is develop your value proposition so that you understand that what your customers get from you and the utility that you bring back to their life and turning their. Michael Smith: Including their ROI on the repairs that you do, the return on investment, that you have a story to tell. And when you believe in your story, and Cecil, I'm backing you up now with labor rates, you're gonna realize we're not charging enough for the value that we bring back to the economy guys. Do you realize it? Michael Smith: Without us, the economy ain't gonna function. We are the transportation baseline that keeps people going to work. It keeps kids going to soccer games. It keeps professionals in their trucks going to service other companies, et cetera. Without us, this economy grinds to a halt. Why do you think in COVID We were, we were called, you know, we were part of those, uh, essential, the exception. Michael Smith: Yeah. We were essential companies that were allowed to keep functioning because. We're critical. So we gotta remember that, that we hold that, that, that status and, and place in our economies. And I want all of us to think more highly of ourselves. I'm just telling you, I meet owners day after day over and over who really question their skill and question kind of what they're worth in the market. Michael Smith: And I'm saying, guys, we need a brand new way of thinking about this. And I, and I wanna encourage you here, if you can hear me, please hear me clearly, you're, you're as good as people get in the business world, I'm telling you right now. Now. Cecil Bullard: So I have been coaching in this, in, I've been in the industry my entire adult life, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Actually, you could say I've been in the industry my entire life, but, you know, actively, uh, doing some job within this industry my entire adult life. And I've been in coaching for coming up on 25 years. Okay. And, and, um, my experience, my, my depth of knowledge, um, the guys that we have that are building value. Cecil Bullard: Talking about value creating, value proposition, um, are able to charge more in their businesses. Mm-hmm. They're, they're attracting a better client. Um, so you know, there's that, uh, when you're talking to shop owners, there's, they're like, yeah, uh, I'd really like to work on Porsches. And you're like, oh, that's wonderful. Cecil Bullard: If it's the first or second owner, when you get to the third owner or the fourth owner, you have somebody that bought a Porsche that can't afford to necessarily fix it. Those are not the best customers, right? No. And so the guys that are, are building this, this great value proposition and able to, to. You know, help their customers understand that value proposition are the ones that are most, uh, successful, most long-term successful. Cecil Bullard: And they're the ones that are probably gonna walk away. With a five x, a six x, or maybe even a 10 x if they are putting themselves together with, you know, enough shops or enough shop owners to, to make it worth the, the while of the venture capital company, if that's who they're gonna sell to. Yeah. New, Michael Smith: new question, incoming Cecil, let me have this one. Michael Smith: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Bring her in. Bring her in. Michael Smith: It's, um, one of the, one of the things that, um, I, I have a group that I help understand what it takes to reinvest in your company like an investor. And what it means is instead of thinking like an owner operator, we think like an investor and think, how do we build value in our company that will be recognized by the marketplace? Michael Smith: Marketplace? We're talking right now on the short list of many, many things that we consider and develop over time are two critical things, right? One of them is. Are you working in the business or are you working on the business? And if you are in the business, you're reducing the value of what you have because the minute you sell it, they have to replace you and your profit margins that you demonstrate. Michael Smith: But trying to build your value around aren't gonna hold up in their hands 'cause they have to replace you. The second thing is, how do you do that? You have to have a leadership team and a team under them. That is rockstar enough to do this the way you would do it without you having to be there. And so you have to invest in your people. Michael Smith: You gotta get toxicity outta your company. You have to have a strong team. And when you have that, then it leans into a third category, which is you can draw the loyal brand, ambassador customers, the best customers out of the market and into your hands that you can then sell that with your company too. Michael Smith: The next owner, right? The next investor. It's investment perspective. Those three things are not typical in our industry. We are so technician centric. We're running a company like a machine. We get the cars in the front desk, we get 'em out the end of the day. We've done our job for the day. That is not building an investment grade company that is building an operating company that has fixing cars. Michael Smith: Fixing cars. Can you believe it? Fixing, fixing cars Cecil Bullard: is not what this is about. It's not what we do. I mean, ultimately cars have to be fixed. They do. But that is not what this is really all about. Right? Not if you want. To have, um, an easier life. Not if you want to, uh, make more money, if not, if you wanna support the people that are in your company. Cecil Bullard: And I think it's almost always about building a team. Michael, uh, aorn, please give us the next question. Um, Blake, I know Blake, have you seen situations where an owner Yeah. Not involved in the day-to-day ops sells to his general manager or management team. Yeah. Lots of times. Um, but here's, here's what I see. Cecil Bullard: Um, mostly I see it's not done well, it's not planned well, and it's kind of more of a last minute thing than a, you know, a five-year plan to make the best out of this because, um. Uh, too many owners are, are taking, you know, 10% down, or not all, not anything down because the, the service advisor, manager, whatever, has not built the money to come in and buy it, and then they're, um, they're taking payments on a business that actually wasn't really set up well. Cecil Bullard: To run and be successful in the long run anyway. And, and so yes, I, I've been involved with several of those, um, one in one in Denver where, um, you know, we built a plan, I think at the time we had four shops and, uh, we built a plan with the general manager that if we got to seven shops, that he would actually own a certain percentage so that he could go to the bank, get the money to buy, you know, the, the principal out. Cecil Bullard: And it went fantastically well. But it was a seven year. Plan. It wasn't a, oh, it's time for me to get out. I'm old, I'm tired, and now I'm gonna sell the, sell my business. And I'm looking around and who can I sell it to? Well, I've got a GM or a management team. Uh, and so that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. Blake, I don't know Blake, I'm gonna, Michael Smith: no, I'm gonna join Cecil on this and say that your question is based on what I, my experience here in the decade have been hanging around. Michael Smith: That's the way it's usually done, is that an owner will sell to what we call a key employee, general manager management team. If it's an MBO management buyout kind of a thing. That's the way it's mostly been done historically. The thing is, the gap I think that I see looking back, that I even see today is this idea of succession planning ahead of time and what Cecil was leaning into. Michael Smith: And, and I'll, and I'll put it this way, like there's a, you know, the world that we exist in today ain't as cheap as it used to be, so let's be real. Right. What it takes to buy a business today and get an SBA loan and to be able to prove that you're gonna be able to pay this thing off. It's nice to sell to a key employee, but do you want to own or finance this over time? Michael Smith: So let me, let me unpack this for a minute for us, okay? If you're gonna sell this over time to a key employee, don't you wanna make sure that they're as competent as pro possible to take it from you do at least as well as you did, if not better, in their hands, so that you assure that what you want out of the companies. Michael Smith: Actually gonna come to you. I can't imagine anything worse than you thinking. You're retired three years from now. Your key employee is overwhelmed and tanks the business, and now you get your business back. Because they didn't pay you for it, right? You get it back. It's broken and out of retirement. Now you have to come back and rebuild it before you can sell it to the next person. Michael Smith: Let me add to that one more consideration. The world that we live in is getting more complex overnight because of the stuff we started talking about today. The consolidators are here when they build scale around you in your town, and you're the one shop left that only is a single shop. They're buying their parts cheaper than you are. Michael Smith: They're buying their oil cheaper than you are. They're recruiting cheaper than you are. They're marketing cheaper than you are. So you can say, look, I'm an old guy, old gal. I don't wanna do this anymore. I'm gonna sell it to my key employee. Traditional flow, get out of the way. I'll take 10% down. If they can afford it, I'll pay. Michael Smith: Let them pay it out over a decade or two. You know what? Their life in the next 10 years is the one you're avoiding. They're not gonna get away from this stuff. We're at the edge of everything changing, and it's happening, starting to happen in a deeper sense. Now, if they inherit that from you without the skills to succeed in it, and you've owner financed it, there are lot more people gonna be getting broken companies back in the future than there were historically. Michael Smith: Not scaring anybody, just saying, guys, this ain't the same world. The next 20 years is not gonna look anything like the last 20. In terms of what, what the dynamics are. So these are just all things to keep in mind as we're thinking about this. Cecil Bullard: I think it's, I think it's pretty, to me it's, it's exceptionally interesting. Cecil Bullard: Um, I, I, I, because you know, venture capital's not going away. The, the family office not going away. They want a piece of this buy and, and, and they're already. Three or four pretty healthy ones in the industry, uh, active. Some of them have hundreds and hundreds of shops at this point in time, and they wanna increase that and, you know, get their multiples and, and all of that. Cecil Bullard: And so that, that's not gonna go away. And I'm not saying that it's not necessarily a good idea to sell to an employee. Or even a family member. But holy smokes, if they're not trained up, I mean, it's bad enough. I had somebody ask me the other day, I said, Cecil, if there's only one thing that you could train, uh, in the automotive industry, they couldn't do anything else. Cecil Bullard: Just one thing. What would you do? And I said, I train 'em on their financials, their numbers, right? Um, just what should the shop make? What, what's, what's my gross profit? How should I pay my, you know, technicians, uh, et cetera, et cetera. Um, because. You can't make money, uh, or, uh, you, you can survive. And there's a lot of shops surviving, but there's also a lot of shops failing. Cecil Bullard: And there are some shops that are soaring like Eagles and, and frankly, those are the shops that have really got their, they built their team, they have their systems in process. They understand what they have to do as far as, I have to charge this so that I can pay that so that I can cover this. And I think that the. Cecil Bullard: I think the world is changing even more dramatically here, and I think faster. I'm reading a book, um, unreasonable Hospitality. Uh, I think every business owner, I don't care what industry you're in, ought to read that book because I think that sets us apart from everyone else in the, in the thing and where we were having an argument yesterday. Cecil Bullard: Um. Amongst several of us. You were, um, kind of online, but I think you didn't get involved in much of that, but too bad. I like, are we, are we talking about, you know, price, uh, as one of the factors of, uh, I'm picking the shop. You know, based on price, are we talking about that value proposition, that hospitality, the way I feel, uh, when I'm involved with that particular business or shop? Cecil Bullard: That's the thing that keeps people coming back to your business over and over consistently. Man, if we don't figure this out as an industry, I would say I think we're gonna lose 30 to 40% of the shops. Mm-hmm. In this industry in the next 10 years. I don't know, man. If somebody wants to bet me money, I prob, I would. Cecil Bullard: I seriously consider putting money on that. Mm-hmm. From everything I've seen. All right. Next question, Michael. Michael Smith: Yeah. Real quick, let me add a stat to this and keep the question up and let me add a stat to this if you guys can stay at tune. Just one second. Let's talk about our cousins in the collision business, right? Michael Smith: 30 to 40% estimate of market share is in the hands of five giant companies in collision. 70% estimated net profit in the industry is in the hands of five companies. Imagine that the margin that they've taken from the small players, like we're talking about here in our industry, is in their hands. Now you're up against them. Michael Smith: In terms of your ability to compete. So just this is real time. This is not the furniture business. This is car related. Right. This is the collision cousin that we have, and that's where they stand as an industry. So we ain't avoiding this. We're going there whether we like it or not. Just to finish, to, to put a bullet behind your point. Michael Smith: Right. So, Cecil Bullard: okay. Okay. So, so we got, we, this is not necessarily different if you ask me, but, uh, Corey Knight. Hey Corey. How you doing? Yep. Um, uh, once you combine with a central corporate. Office, I think that's supposed to be corporate. Um, are you then opening up to a liability for, for some other shop's malpractice. Cecil Bullard: First of all, holy crap, we don't understand in this industry what our liability is. I don't know. I mean, of all the shop owners I know, and I know thousands and thousands of shop owners, right? I could name on two hands. The number of shop owners that understand their liability, the liability that we have is unbelievable. Cecil Bullard: If you ask me, I don't know, frankly, and maybe Michael, you can help me out here. Um, I don't know that okay. Having a central corporate office changes anything or creates any additional liability. Uh, than what I, I might have and if I'm having cars come from other shops that are not done correctly, uh, or, or were not fixed right, or weren't diagnosed properly or whatever, I think if I document well where, where we started and where we're going, that I think my liability gets less and less and less. Cecil Bullard: Right. And I don't know, Michael, what, what would you say about having a corporate office and creating liability? This is fantastic. This Michael Smith: is a fantastic question and I'll, I'll say this about liability. Um, investors will look at risk management and this is the, that risk management simply in their terms, means managing. Michael Smith: Future liabilities, right? The risk that's inherent in our businesses. We can be smart and manage the risk ourselves as much as we can. In other words, you control your quality inside your own company. If you put a corporate office down who provides services to you in the background, you can be insulated in your company by buying services on contract from a central corporate office that you build as a separate company under a, you know, it's different from you. Michael Smith: Right. So Bob, who's your peer in buying services from the corporate service company does something stupid that doesn't roll through the service company to you, that's still gonna be Bob's problem. And it may be the service company's problem because they help them make a mistake, but that shouldn't necessarily roll over to you. Michael Smith: A lot of this comes down to the legal structure that you build this under and who are your partners? And I'm gonna take it back just to the quality program. The reason. That things like SOPs exist in corporate groups is to standardize process so that you can avoid making dumb mistakes on an individual location basis and standardize. Michael Smith: You know, I, I'll, I'll say this, right? When Mercedes makes a car, they drive it to the end of the, of the production line, and then they test it. And if something's broken on the car, that doesn't work right in, in the factory, they fix it and then they send it to the market. Toyota does the same thing, but when they find something that doesn't work right, they fix it and send it to the market, but they also go back down the production line, figure out where it got broken in the first place, fix how it got broken on the production line so it never gets broken again. Michael Smith: Those are two different mentalities about how you run a quality program. Cecil Bullard: Cecil, one of the, oh man. I, I just, we, we as an industry. Um, we as an industry don't ever fix the problem that created the problem. We don't have time. We're too busy trying to fix the car and get the car out to solve the, the, the problem. Cecil Bullard: So to me, um, you know, that's, that's huge. And, and corporate structure is really, really important when you get past. Um. I think from the beginning you certainly don't wanna, don't wanna be a sole proprietor. Yep. And you don't want to have your property in the same business as you have your shop. And you know, you wanna probably have a corporate, uh, office that, that has a separate corporation 'cause you're creating layers of um, uh. Cecil Bullard: You're not invincible, but it, every time there's a layer, it's more difficult for someone to come after you, uh, the, the CEO of the company, the board, you know, the, the, the shareholder, et cetera. And so I think structure matters a, a ton in, in fact, we've just spent, I don't know, six months and a lot of money with lawyers, uh, creating new structures so that we can kind of get to the next level with the institute. Cecil Bullard: And, uh, I, I've, I have found it. Fascinating, um, uh, you know, the nuances and the tax advantages and, and all the other stuff that, that go along with that. I think it's pretty, it's, it's exciting to me. All right. Um, LA last question, I guess we must be getting towards the end. I'd like to wrap it up a little too. Cecil Bullard: So, uh, Carrie, uh, Rivas, Carrie, um, uh, we hope to sell our shop to one of our three children who currently works in the business. If selling to him today, how would you determine the value of the business not including the building? Would that be three times net? Uh, no. Um, it, it, it wouldn't necessarily be, it's a wonderful question. Cecil Bullard: Um, first of all, I wouldn't sell to him today unless I had had a plan. Three to five years ago that explained how that all works. Right. And so, um, here, here at the institute, uh, Kent, my son, who is a viable and, and valuable part of the company, uh, uh, we started planning, I don't know, we're probably four years into this maybe. Cecil Bullard: Five and he now has some interest in the company. Uh, I think it'll be 20% at the end of this year. 'cause we're gonna hit our, uh, you know, one of those milestones that we put in play. Um, and so essentially we have set him up to be able to buy the business no matter what the X is. Right. And, and obviously in what we do, the X's are different than say an automotive shop. Cecil Bullard: Um, and so there, there are so many factors that would say three x or four x or five x, uh, or, or one X, uh, uh, and those are the things that are gonna really play, I think, to the sale of the shop. And you might say to yourself, well, you know, this is my, this is my kid. I'm gonna give him or her, um, a discount. Cecil Bullard: Fine. Great. Uh, but man, you, you, um. There's so much kind of involved with this. They work in the business. What do they do? Do they understand the business? Um, you know that coaching and training thing too, if you want them to be successful. Uh, stuff we talked about, uh, today, that, that idea of, um. Um, creating a team, uh, having the systems and processes, you know, moving your business forward. Cecil Bullard: So your net is not 3%, your net is 12, uh, 15, 18, 22. Um, all of those things, uh, play in the, the real value of your shop, and I believe also whether or not it's going to be successful term, whether you're there or your son or your daughter's there. Or one of your top people's there, or you end up selling it to, you know, um, you know, Billy Bob consult, uh, uh, uh, management, uh, uh, whatever company. Cecil Bullard: Um, can I, Michael Smith: so I wanna add to this too. Cecil Bullard: When you get done, I wanna add to this. I know where No, I'll be done. You, yeah. You add, Michael Smith: yeah. Now let me, let me just say, this is a conversation I have a lot with owners beginning the conversation of, so, you know, how are we gonna get out of this in the optimized way? And regardless of who you sell it to, it's similar questions. Michael Smith: You assuming you can sell your business for a profit. Capital gains profit in your life, how do you account? How do you set that up so that you pay the right amount of taxes, but that you minimize your tax liability? How do you set it up in a family situation, particularly with three kids like you mentioned, and it's a great question. Michael Smith: What about the other two kids? Do they get a stake in the business, don't they? What's the stake? How do you transfer it? What's the tax implication to them versus you? One of the conversations I always have is start at the end, like, how much time do you have and how much do you need out of the business to retire? Michael Smith: Parents. Then what are you selling to the kids in terms of the business and who's gonna take what stake and what, what's their outcome? I'll say this about trust as an example. Trusts are a great tool to use. You may or may not have one questioner, but for all of you out there, trusts aren't considered valid by the US government until they're over 12 months old. Michael Smith: So you can't set up a trust and three months later sell your company to somebody and have it be covered and handled under the trust. It's so you've got some long-term planning to do is my point. So this, and we do this helping people with these kinds of conversations all the time. Don't do it by random, don't do it by chance, if you will. Michael Smith: Put it, put some strategy thinking into it and have, again, Cecil mentioned it, have your kids be ready to take the business from you. One in terms of passion, but two, in terms of competency. Emotional setup, right? Maturity. Make sure that you hand it to 'em so they can succeed so that you're not handing them a problem. Michael Smith: And again, th this is different for every company, but all, all I'm saying is I, some of us get tired, we get to the end of the road. I just wanna be out of this. I wanna sell it to family and be done with it. Please, please don't do it. Uh, uh, without really digging into some of the, the side details, it could be very impactful. Michael Smith: What on anybody involved? Brother? Go ahead. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: What you don't know can cost you and your kids. Millions, tens of thousands, hundreds, even millions of dollars. Michael Smith: I'm, Cecil Bullard: I need to make a, a, a a short comment here. We had a client that, um, uh, uh, owns two shops at the time and, uh, three kids who didn't want anything to do with the business. Cecil Bullard: Okay. Watch dad work his butt off for years and for whatever reason, you know, either dad didn't manage him well or, or dad wasn't nice at work or, or you know, they thought dad worked too hard, whatever it was, they won't have anything to do with the business. We brought them to a leadership intensive. Cecil Bullard: These kids are on fire. They want nothing more than to take this business over and grow this business because they've seen what the opportunity is and how to do it. And we've also worked with dad and mom on how do we help the kids do this and how do we need to deal with it? I'm not. Always the nicest guy to my kids. Cecil Bullard: Um, they're the ones that I can be the hardest on and I'm probably gonna be the hardest on. And, you know, sometimes I need somebody to say, Hey Cecil, um, you know, maybe if you approached it this way and did it this way, it would be much better for your relationship with your kids and you'd come out much in a much better way. Cecil Bullard: And I just think that's extremely value. I wanna spend just five minutes here. I know we're getting to the end. 2026. Uh, Michael, what, what do you think for shops? What do you think it looks like? Michael Smith: Uh, 2026 for shops. You know, we have, we have, uh, geopolitical instability that we're settling through on the planet at this point. Michael Smith: I'm not being political, I'm just saying in the bigger macro, it is what it is. It is what it is, and there are some people who are sort of holding back a little bit, making big, long-term decisions, waiting to see what the long-term looks like. And so let's just put that on the table. Number one. Number two. Michael Smith: Um, economically we're stable at this point. Stock market's doing great. Investment funds are backed up and ready to invest. You know, I asked the private equity firms, how do you guys plan forward into uncertainty? And they said, well, it's not as complicated as you think. We don't do a bunch of modeling. We decide, we look back and we say, over the last hundred years, what are the trends that have been successful so far? Michael Smith: And we're gonna tend to stay with them and some until something catastrophic or radical happens, and we have to change that strategy. So all the little side questions of, well, what if this happens? And what if that happens at the investment level? They're like, we're gonna assume it's largely gonna be the same and we're gonna go ahead and keep investing up to our eyeballs. Michael Smith: For a hundred years, it's worked with all the world wars and all the changes that model works all the way through, right? So from that perspective, what does 26 look like? Money's waiting to be invested. We're aging out as the boomers. The boomers are at least two thirds of the owners in our industries, if not more. Michael Smith: Many of the kids aren't fully prepared for succession yet. Your key leaders aren't as ready as succession ready as you might hope that they would be. So if you're getting out. Make sure you know the pathway out. There are private equity opportunities to sell into investment systems, to have a little more as an owner in your pocket when you're done, how do you handle the shop and the real estate in your two different hands? Michael Smith: There are strategies for this. So Cecil 2026 is, you know, big, hairy, audacious goals. Think bigger than we tend to think. Get your teams and leaders ready to go big with you and look forward and, and, and plan for the options. Plan for the opportunities, and be more creative than we've been historically about what you could pull off. Michael Smith: And I'm gonna say to you, there are support structures, and I'll brag on ours. We're doing stuff that I don't know anybody else that we compete with is doing, but we've been there, done that, and it's. Sales pitch. I'm just telling you, we can help you do stuff that isn't typical in this industry that can take you to different places. Michael Smith: 'cause we know that's where the industry's going. And so what's 26? I'd kick some tires. I'd lift up rocks and look under 'em that I hadn't looked before. And if you're tired. Keep doing it and don't stop yet. Lift up those rocks and see what's under there and, and I'll finish with the kid story, right? We've got multiple clients where the kids, where, as Cecil said, leaning out the front door and all of a sudden they come and they learn this and they're all back in the front. Michael Smith: They're not even leaning in, they're in and they're like, I'm gonna build a generational wealth business with my family that has a significant community. Employee customer impact. And we are gonna play this rollup game that's coming because it's number one much more interesting than fixing cars for us. Michael Smith: The kids. The kids, right? And number two, that's where the industry's going anyway. So why shouldn't we as insiders with advantage be in that instead of seeding that opportunity to somebody else? And so I say that to all of us guys. It's a new world that's here. Whether we like it or not, it's here. So explore the options and see what. Michael Smith: They look like for you. And then make an advised decision. Make a wise decision about where you want to go from 26 and beyond. Don't just be tired and walk out the front door and please don't ignore this stuff because you, what you don't know may end up costing you. I mean, more than an arm and a leg. You have no idea. Michael Smith: What's on the table and Cecil Bullard: I see 2026 as a, as a huge opportunity for those people that are thinking differently, that are learning things they don't know that are building great teams and creating value proposition and a business that. Uh, revolves around those things. And then I see 2026 is very difficult for those people that are, you know, driving price and, and driving their business based on price and fixing cars. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Mm-hmm. As the, as the primary. I, I just gotta fix this car so I can get the money in the door, and, and I really still will say. That we're gonna lose a ton of shops. We've seen it this year. We've seen quite a few shops disappear. We're gonna see more and more disappear. They're just gonna close their doors because they didn't build value. Cecil Bullard: They didn't get the, you know, create what they needed to do when they had the time, the energy and the life force in them to do it. So, alright, uh, we want to thank you for joining us. If you didn't get your question answered, you want to ask another question or whatever, please hit up info at we are the institute.com. Cecil Bullard: There will also be a QR code as soon as they take, uh, our mugs off the screen. Uh, and, uh, if you'd like a, uh, uh, no. Risk, uh, business evaluation, no cost. Uh, we'd be more than happy to spend some time with you and, and answer your questions and, and go over those things. And so that QR code is gonna pop up here in just a second. Cecil Bullard: Thank you. Uh, Michael Smith, one of my favorite people in the world. Uh, thank the rest of you for joining us today, and we look forward to seeing you again in a few weeks when we kind of do this thing one more time. Michael Smith: Thanks everybody. Good to see you.

178 - How Running a Lee Myles Shop Gave Lance Lupi More Freedom Than 20 Years in Finance Ever Did November 25, 2025 - 00:50:02   Show Summary: Lance Lupi shares his unexpected journey from live sound engineering and financial services to running his family’s Lee Myles franchise in New Jersey. He explains how stepping into the shop during the height of COVID opened his eyes to the opportunity within the industry. Lance talks about the advantages of small-business ownership, the steep learning curve, and the value he places on his technicians. He discusses why he finally committed to coaching after five years and how it reshaped his vision for growth. The conversation explores leadership, culture, and the decisions needed to scale a shop built on integrity. Lance closes with his hopes for the industry and the future he wants to create for his team and his family.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Lance Lupi, Owner of Lee Myles Autocare + Transmissions   Show Highlights: [00:03:24] – Lance recalls his winding path into automotive and why he never expected to own a shop. [00:07:53] – He explains how his father-in-law bought the franchise and what drew the family to the business. [00:09:57] – Lance describes entering the shop during COVID and realizing the industry’s long-term potential. [00:13:20] – He talks about the struggle to build SOPs and get team buy-in for consistent processes. [00:20:11] – Lance outlines his bay setup, the structure of the shop and the skill levels of his technicians. [00:28:05] – He shares how watching Cecil’s content sparked major improvements in margins and operations. [00:30:59] – Lance explains the moment he knew he needed coaching and why he chose the Institute. [00:33:12] – He admits he plateaued and needed expert guidance to move beyond being a one-man operation. [00:41:07] – Lance defines leadership as inspiring the team, listening well and being willing to work beside them. [00:44:19] – He shares his wish for the industry: remove those who don’t operate with honesty so the good shops can thrive.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friends. Good to be with you again. This is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge Podcast. My guest today is Lance Lupe. He's with Lee Miles, the franchise of automotive service and repairs. He is out of Haslet, New Jersey. Lance, welcome to the show. Jimmy Lea: How you doing brother? Lance Lupi: I'm doing great, Jimmy, how are you? Re great to see you, although a little disappointed in the attire. No, no flashy Jimmy Lea: Jacket today. Alright, hold on. I'll get my jacket. Jimmy Lea: You know, everybody's listening to this. They can't see anything. You gotta call me out like that. Jimmy Lea: Hey Lance, we've seen each other at many different trade shows over the years. I'm thinking of tools. Super Saturday Asta. Yep. Yep. And I'm twice Asta. Twice asta, and I'm told we're not supposed to pronounce it Asta, because you're not supposed to pronounce acronyms. It's supposed to be a STA. Jimmy Lea: Okay. You're welcome, Lorraine. Calling out Lorraine on that one. Yeah, we've seen you twice at Asta. I, and I think that they have done a phenomenal job with that conference, the new location. Oh man. Did you go this last year better, Lance Lupi: better this year than la Great. Last year better and I wasn't there for the entire time last year. Lance Lupi: I was there for the full event, but definitely a b Huge improvement. Yeah. Location and everything about it. The scope of it was tremendous. Jimmy Lea: Yes. So you gotta go again. You gotta go. This next move, what is it? September? I think it's September. Mm-hmm. October. Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: Put it on your calendar. Save up your pennies and nickels and dimes. Jimmy Lea: Whatever you gotta do to make sure you're there for that one. Have you been to Tools? You go into the tools one in Pennsylvania. Lance Lupi: I went last year and then go into the one plan on going to the one next year. I've heard they've changing locations po possibly don't know if that's true or not. Yes, we're, Jimmy Lea: it's gonna be at the Hershey. Jimmy Lea: Hershey in Hershey, Pennsylvania, the Hershey Chocolate Factory, and it's inside of there. So you want to get on it quick? They've got rooms available. I believe the classes are gonna start to be available to register here pretty dang soon. It's in April. Lance Lupi: Okay. Jimmy Lea: Right after on the calendar. Lance Lupi: Yes. Get it on the calendar. Jimmy Lea: It's right after my wife's birthday, so we got that going for us. Lance Lupi: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Super excited. Hopefully she'll be there. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah, that would, it's gonna be right. So we're going on a cruise for her birthday and then this is gonna be right after her birthday, so we'd go straight from wherever we're cruising from directly to her. Jimmy Lea: She Pennsylvania. Dude, that would be awesome. I'd love to introduce you to Rhonda. She's awesome and amazing. I met her last year at A STA. Well, well, there you go. There you go. That's right. She was there last year, not this past one, but a year ago, correct? Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That was awesome. Or Lance Lupi: at least I didn't see her this year. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, you weren't there to see her this year. I went there Lance Lupi: year last year. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, dude. No, that's awesome. So we've had a lot of conversations over the years of shops and process procedures and, advisors and needing technicians and franchisees and franchise fees and franchise support and everything you're doing. Jimmy Lea: So, what I'd love to do here first, Lance, is to get into the history of how did you get into the automotive industry. Wow. So Lance Lupi: great question. Long journey to get here. Long, long journey. I don't know how far you want me to go back. Jimmy Lea: I've had some dudes start when they were two years old and they're holding the wrench for dad 'cause dad was working on the cars. Jimmy Lea: So it, so, so not that Lance Lupi: path. That was not the path at all. Oh. You know, I did do work on my own cars when I was younger. Started to drive oil changes, you know, break jobs, simple stuff like that. But nothing really beyond that. Learned a couple things from dad. Tremendous influence on my life all over the place, but. Jimmy Lea: Was dad in the industry? Was he a technician? No. Was he a shop Lance Lupi: owner? No. Jimmy Lea: No. Just Lance Lupi: he was a mechanical engineer. Jimmy Lea: Mechanical, Lance Lupi: In the driveway out of pure necessity. Correct, but a mechanical engineer by trade. Jimmy Lea: Oh wow, okay. Very good. Lance Lupi: Yeah, so nothing to do with that, but you know, he was a young man as well at one point he worked on his cars and, you know, a different time when he did more work on cars than you do now. Lance Lupi: But in any event so, so that was really the extent of my automotive history and knowledge. Got into actually doing live sound. For five years for bands. I worked in clubs and, you know, did some small little tours with some people and things like that. And that went on for about five years. And during that time, I, you know, I still was in school, going to college, wasn't really sure the path yet. Lance Lupi: Got out of that after about five years and ended up going into financial services. So, whoa. 20 years that you went from being a roadie to being a financial advisor? Not a roadie. I was not a roadie. Hold on, let's back up, Jimmy. I know that was Jimmy Lea: my word. Lance Lupi: I, I ran the front of house, the audio systems for the bands. Lance Lupi: I was a house engineer at a club in as famous Asbury Park, if you've heard of Asbury Park, New Jersey. And that's where I spent the bulk of my time. Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay. Doing Lance Lupi: that. Jimmy Lea: So you had a club, you weren't traveling on the road with the band. Lance Lupi: Not, I think some little bands come to your, some little stuff with some different people. Lance Lupi: Actually provided a PA system for Chubby Checker for a few gigs you know, in, in the northeast area for a couple days. And and then did some bands that I was friends with, things like that. We would travel a little bit, but primarily I was in one location. Okay. For the majority of that time. Jimmy Lea: Alright, so were you the AV guy that would balance the sound or would you just blast the sound? Lance Lupi: No, I wouldn't just blast the sound. That's not the objective. The objective is to make sure that everyone can hear everything the way that they want it to be heard the way that it sounded on the record or whatever it is. Lance Lupi: So yeah, setting up the mics and, you know, doing sound checks and all those things and making sure the people can hear themselves on stage, making sure the fans could hear the. Stand out in the front of house and yeah, that was, oh, I love it. Five years of my life. Jimmy Lea: Alright, from from, and that Lance Lupi: shut down and then I decided that, you know, this is probably not what I want to do for the remainder of my life. Lance Lupi: You know, it was fun, but giving up my weekends and all those things was not the greatest thing for me personally. For a lot of people it works. So, finished up school, got a degree in finance, and went into financial services for 20 years. Then I needed a change. Yeah. About five and a half years ago. Jimmy Lea: My Lance Lupi: in-laws Jimmy Lea: go ahead. Five and a half years ago. I think we must have met shortly after you started your shop then, Lance Lupi: so, so the shop, been in the family. Jimmy Lea: Been in the family for 20 years. 20 years, yes. Okay, so it was your in-laws that Lance Lupi: had Jimmy Lea: it first. Lance Lupi: Correct. They owned it. They bought it. My father-in-law loved cars. Lance Lupi: He needed something to do. He felt that this was a great opportunity to combine work with his passion of cars. Jimmy Lea: Okay? He didn't work on Lance Lupi: cars. He just loved cars. Not that he didn't work on cars, but he wasn't a mechanic or anything like that. But he, he loved automobiles. Had a bunch of hot rods and all kinds of different classic cars and things like that. Lance Lupi: So he felt that this would be a good way to, to combine both his passions of, you know, providing an income and working on cars. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. What do you know what steered him toward Lee Miles as the the franchise to follow? Lance Lupi: It wasn't necessarily that it was just, this was something that was available. Lance Lupi: It was proximity to the house. Was really. Great. You know, 10 minutes. Okay. Be being 10 minutes away. Great location. We're right on a main highway, you know, main artery in the area. So tons and tons of traffic that passes by the building every day. Love it. So, you know, just it was a fit for what he was looking for and what he was looking to do. Jimmy Lea: It's like every bit of successful real estate location. Mm-hmm. Location, Lance Lupi: Location. Absolutely. First of three else. Yeah. Yeah. So, about five and a half years ago, I needed some sort of change and he was kind of looking at the exit door a little bit and I said, well, why don't we why don't we see what we can do with this? Lance Lupi: That was, you know, right at the heart of COVID. The heart of co. Right? The beginning. This was 2020. This was like, you know, right in the thick, right when we first really started to get into, you know, this was like June, July of that year. 2020. Jimmy Lea: So this is past the two weeks? Jimmy Lea: Two weeks. Two weeks. This is not just two months. Two months. Two months. This is the serious lockdown. Okay, Lance Lupi: very good. Sorry. Yeah. The be the very beginning. Yep. Yeah. So pop and I said, well, let's see what happens. Okay. So, came in and started learning. 'cause I knew nothing, you know, I mean, I had been here before, obviously it's my father-in-law, it's right around the corner from me. Lance Lupi: I've, you know, we, he his team worked on our personal vehicles, my wife and I, and so not as if I didn't have any exposure, but didn't really know how it worked. Jimmy Lea: Right. Yes. Because it's different than financial services. Sure. I mean, it is business. So you have business acumen, but it's mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: It's its own unique leopard with its own unique spots. Lance Lupi: Yes. But I did work in the operational side of financial services. I was responsible for budgeting for different departments, so. Able to leverage some of those types of things, SOPs. Right. You know, while I don't still don't really have them, I know about them. Lance Lupi: I'm familiar with them. I've written them, I've supervised people, writing them and rewriting them. So, you know, there was a lot of things that either are or can be leveraged in this space that I take away from my old roles. Jimmy Lea: Oh that's very cool. So you're starting to work on SOPs. Lance Lupi: Starting is a long journey ahead. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it's a five year journey so far, and it, you know, it's been well, so a lot of, go ahead. The great thing about SOPs is it's a document that never dies. It's a living document, you living breeding document to add and add and work with. It seems to be a subject, a topic that comes up in a lot of the podcasts that I've been doing here recently. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. And I think one of the most successful. Conversations I had, a gentleman was talking to his technicians and saying, Hey, look you guys are my beta. I am using you to see if what we're making, what we're creating is going to work. Is this gonna work? Is it gonna be good? Does it read right? Jimmy Lea: Did I write it right? What did I leave out? What do we need to add? How can we improve these SOPs? And the brilliance of that process is getting their buy-in. Jimmy Lea: I just thought it was brilliant. I totally geeked Lance Lupi: out. Yeah. And that's an area where I, you know, I struggle with a little bit in the sense that the team that's here tremendously talent, tremendously fortunate to have the people working here that are working here. Lance Lupi: They're not used to those types of things. And that change is a little hard and I try every day to challenge them and let them know that we need to be much more consistent than we already are. Jimmy Lea: Yes. And that's how Lance Lupi: we got, that's how we have to get there. Jimmy Lea: That conversation was very recent with his name is Chris. Jimmy Lea: Pete Zach and his shop is Matt's automotive, and in fact he's in New Jersey as well. Lance Lupi: Oh really? Jimmy Lea: Yes, he is in, Jimmy Lea: I don't remember. Don't worry. Nevermind. Lance Lupi: Small state. But it's a, but it's a big state. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, we have a lot of, we have Lance Lupi: a ton of people here, so there's a lot of of. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No it, it was awesome. I just loved what Chris was talking about on that because it's so true that the buy-in the input the company culture mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: It becomes this is us, this is our program, this is how we do things. And it's when you get it down and you get it set up Lance, I think you're gonna love it. I think you're gonna let, no, absolutely. So what is your take here? The difference between the franchise world and the automotive world? Lance Lupi: I don't know that I really have one because this is all I really know. And the reality is we kind of work very independently. So it's not as structured as what most people might think of when they think of a franchise agreement. Jimmy Lea: I said franchise, you know what? And I was thinking financial, the, between the financial world and the automotive world. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I said, I did say franchise. You did pick that up. Yeah. And I apologize. Sure. I wanna know between your financial world and now in the automotive. Sure. Lance Lupi: The differences. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Differences, similarities, challenges reward rewards. Lance Lupi: Yeah. So you see what I'm wearing? Jimmy Lea: Yeah, got a hoodie on looking comfy. Lance Lupi: Okay. So that's a lot different than a suit and tie. So Jimmy Lea: yeah, you got, Lance Lupi: there's definitely, you know, one advantage you know, I'm about seven minutes from my house versus, you know, an hour plus each direction. Plus a huge cost in commuting expenses. At the end of my that part of. Career. I was in the city. Lance Lupi: I was taking the ferry into the city every morning to get to work and back to work. And that was, you know, if I told you the number of what I was spending every month on commuting and then the time, all that time back and forth, I mean, it's so much different, you know, so my stress level, while it probably should be greater, is actually less. Jimmy Lea: Believe it. I believe it. I believe it in this role. Lance Lupi: And I think that's partially because I'm in control. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Lance Lupi: Right. I'm not beholden to, to someone else. Other Jimmy Lea: than the customer. Lance Lupi: Other than the customer. But I mean, I control all that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Lance Lupi: Right. So, so that's something I'm empowered to do anything. Lance Lupi: Yeah. Lance Lupi: Right. Lance Lupi: Yeah. And I don't Lance Lupi: have to, you know, take orders really from anybody else. But me. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, yeah, I drive that. And your commute is glorious. Lance Lupi: My commute is glorious. I need to run home and, you know, the, until my daughter just left for college prior to that, her, you know, being here for high school for her was a tremendous benefit. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. She could just pop in and say, Hey, pops, how you doing? Lance Lupi: Or if she needed something I needed, she forgot something at, you know, home, I could run it over to her or whatever. So, so that, that was a a huge win, you know, for the both of us. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's very cool. The, Lance Lupi: The other side of that equation, well, the. Lance Lupi: Not the same. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, it's not the same. But the re reduction and one of the things having to pay for the commute, that does help. That's true. Mm-hmm. And then you've also got the, the less stress factor that's gotta happen as well. Correct. So what does, but I'm trying to change all those things so that, that's why I'm here. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. So what does the what does it look like when you approach father-in-law and he's looking for the escapee, the escape, the exit door. Yeah. And he is ready to go out. What, how does that conversation go? And where do you settle on getting to a number? Lance Lupi: Well, it was, you know, they were just like, listen, we're thinking about getting out of this. And I said, well, let's not do that just yet. Why don't we wait and see how things go? Okay, let me step in. Let me start learning. Let me see what we can do with this thing. I think even during that, Lance Lupi: the unknown that was going on at that particular point in time, I would. I felt that there was a tremendous opportunity. I still feel there's a tremendous opportunity in this industry, right as I sit and you know, I would sit in front of my house. I live on not a main road, but not a back street or anything like that. Lance Lupi: I have a high school, a couple doors down from me. I have a big neighborhood development across the street from me, and I would see all these cars passing by. Thinking every one of those cars needs four tires. Every one of those cars needs an oil change. Every one of those cars needs a boozy whats, or you know, a tuneup, a, you know, a radiator or whatever. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They gotta drive forward. They need to, everyone house Lance Lupi: across the street from me has 2, 3, 4 cars in their driveway. Jimmy Lea: They all do. Yep. And some are garage queens, but some are the teenagers. Jimmy Lea: Most Lance Lupi: are not garage queens. Most car, most garages, including mine, do not contain cars. Lance Lupi: They can contain the junk that you don't know where else to put it. Jimmy Lea: Oh gosh yeah. No. And the Lance Lupi: refrigerator and the freezer or whatever, and the work bench and things like that. But most. Most garages, at least here in New Jersey. Yeah. In my experience, do not contain vehicles. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's hilarious. Jimmy Lea: That's hilarious. So you're working on cars. You go with the father-in-law and they, you said, Hey, let's not get out of this yet. Let me come down. And so you come down and you look at this and go, oh, you know what? I can see a future here. I think this is something we can take care of. Jimmy Lea: Are you in the process of buying it off, buying it out, or did you pay it off in one fail swoop? Lance Lupi: We're, that's still, you know, not worked out yet. Completely. Okay. It's still legally there. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Very good. Lance Lupi: I'm just an employee right now. Jimmy Lea: You're an employee. Wow. That is very cool. And my $17,000 lesson is get it in writing. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. And there you go. Lance Lupi: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: So what does the shop look Lance Lupi: like today? What's the footprint? So the footprint is I've got four bays. Two to three are primarily in use. One is kind of just a backup, you know, 'cause it's smaller because of the, you know, one of my lifts is a big drive on lift, so there's a smaller lift in front of it, so that's not really used too much. Lance Lupi: Okay. But it's there in, it's in reserve. I've got two technicians that are here. One has been with the business here for. Pretty much since it, since my in-laws took over the business. Shortly thereafter, he joined and been here ever since. Had he had a brief departure during COVID. Jimmy Lea: He's Lance Lupi: from Europe, and he reasons he decided that he felt that he needed to move back to his home country. Lance Lupi: That was short lived. Fortunately, in the interim, I did hi, bring on another person to. Take on some of those responsibilities that, that he had there. And then my other, the other tech who's our builder, so we're Lee Miles is a transmission franchise, but we do full repair, but specialty and transmission. Lance Lupi: And I do have a transmission builder, and that's my second tech. And he's primarily a builder, but he does full repair. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Yeah. You know, those, and then Lance Lupi: so when I, so just I had, so when the one person came back from Europe, I kept on the third person for a period of time. I was able to sustain the work, but I. Lance Lupi: We're back to those two people. The 20 year person and the 10 year plus person. But the 10 year plus person has another 30 plus years behind them in experience, and the 20 year person has another 15 years of experience behind them. Oh, wow. Prior to being here. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. So Lance Lupi: I'm fortunate for the team that's here they're tremendously talented. Lance Lupi: They're passionate about their work and. They want to solve the problem for the customer. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. That's very cool. Yeah, the, those men and women that work on transmissions, that's a thousand piece puzzle without a picture. You, oh my gosh. That's some skill. Lance Lupi: Yeah. He's tremendously skilled. Lance Lupi: He is very particular about how he works. Examines each and every component that comes outta there and goes back in and knows all those little tricks and things that I'm just amazed when I, you know, watch 'em. I don't watch 'em too often 'cause I don't want to disturb him. But Jimmy Lea: yeah, Lance Lupi: when he talks about it, when he, when we're writing up narratives for customer invoices and things like that, I'm just, you know, amazed at the level of detail and the knowledge. Lance Lupi: Steps that he has. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. That's just fascinating. The to know the tolerances and the abilities of the different gears and the mechanisms and the the different chemistry of the parts and pieces to know which part is mm-hmm. Working best and which one's gonna wear out first. Jimmy Lea: These guys that have been working on these transmissions for so long it's second nature for him, and that's so cool. Lance Lupi: It's. And because of his skill. I actually work, one of my wholesale accounts is a classic car restoration company. Lance Lupi: Oh, wow. Lance Lupi: So we'll, do you know, I don't know, eight to 12 units a month outta these older vehicles that he grew up on. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Yeah that's the car that he was working on. That's where he, when he was 15 years old, wanting to have a car to be able to drive to high school. That's what he was working on. Oh, that's awesome. Lance Lupi: Exactly. So, so, it's great and it's, and it, you know, it allows me to have that extra piece of business that I wouldn't otherwise have if he wasn't in, in the building. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, that's great. And my dad, way back in the day, he was 14, 15, 16. The neighbor had a 57 Chevy and it wasn't running. It needed a new transmission. My dad bought it for 10 or 20 bucks, bought the car, took a taxi to the pick apart, took the transmission out of another 57, took a taxi back to home. Jimmy Lea: And installed it with the transmission on his lap. On his lap. Yeah. And he installed the transmission in the guy's driveway. Installed it. Started it up. He drove it Lance Lupi: outta Lance Lupi: there. Jimmy Lea: Drove it out. Lance Lupi: How about that? That's a great story. That is a great, oh my gosh. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. To take it. Taxi. I have a friend who has Lance Lupi: one of those Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: A 57. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a beautiful car. It's a beautiful car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's cool. Well, you, it sounds like you've got a great footprint, a great program, a great company, a great culture. You've got some great guys that are there working with you, bringing this to the forward. Yeah. To the future. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you have a service advisor or are you filling in on that position right now? I Lance Lupi: am. That's why my hat looks the way it does, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you've you're doing the day to day. You, Lance Lupi: you are I'm doing everything. I do everything. I mean there if it's not fixing a car, it falls on my shoulders. Lance Lupi: Wow. That's awesome. That's awesome. So it's not so awesome. That's kind of where, you know, why I am where I am. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and why I've Lance Lupi: made some decisions that I've made recently to change that. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And what are some of those decisions you've made recently that have. Are making a difference for you? Jimmy Lea: What, what's going on? Lance Lupi: Well, it's the fact that I decided that, you know, I am on board, Jimmy Lea: on board with the institute That's correct. Coaching and training. Yeah. You, there's the things that you know, you know, and there's things you know, you don't know. And the most dangerous is the things you don't know that you don't know. Jimmy Lea: That's correct. Oh, that's awesome. So why get on with coaching and training? Finally after five years? Lance Lupi: Yeah, so when I first got when I first got into this pro, well, not first got into it about two years in or so, some person just walked in and said, Hey, I'm a mobile diagnostic person, and I program computers and things like that. Lance Lupi: So. I struck up a little bit of a, you know, relationship with that person in the beginning and he, this was a person that had owned his own shop, owned his own towing business owned, you know, a bunch of businesses. It's been a technician for, you know, 20 or 30 years or whatever. Wow. It was a great resource. Lance Lupi: He was close by and I don't know, we just kind of connected a little bit and during all those conversations. He mentioned this guy, he said, you know, you should probably watch some videos from this guy. I said, who? Cecil. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Cecil Bullard. Yeah. Lance Lupi: So I went, you know, I started, you know, I would sit outside or sit in the house or sometime and I'd pop on YouTube and I pull up this guy Cecil Bullard, and I started listening to him and, you know, tons of other people. Lance Lupi: On there, you know, Lucas and David would have him on, or, you know, they, they would have conversations, their shop owners I would watch. And so I and I would watch and start learning about all these things and that's how I came to A STA, I wanna make sure I pronounce it correctly. So that's how I came to A STA. Lance Lupi: They were having a conversation about it, Lucas and David. And I decided that, you know, let me head down. That's where, you know, you and I first connected and I started taking some of those things that, that Cecil was saying and I started applying them. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Lance Lupi: Parts, margins, right. Labor, right. Lance Lupi: All these different things that, that I really didn't know. Emotion. My, my favorite phrase from him, emotional. Jimmy Lea: Discounting. Yeah. Emotional discounting. That's selling outta your front pocket because you think, oh my gosh, this is such a big bill. It's just a bill. Yeah. Lance Lupi: So, so I started applying a lot of those things and I was having conversations with people I was having. Lance Lupi: I was having conversations with him and I mean with, you know, my friend. And then most recently I watched a video with a se, a webinar with him and Michael Smith. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. That asked me anything, webinars, Lance Lupi: that was the aha moment kind of. I'm gonna pause. Jimmy Lea: Okay? Lance Lupi: Okay. Is that, Jimmy Lea: yeah, let's pause you Take care of the customer, Lance Lupi: okay? Lance Lupi: Okay. Thanks Jimmy. Hold on. I am back Jimmy Lea: to me. Okay. Hey, right on. So here's the beauty of what we're doing here and for everybody. Yeah, we can start over. Everybody that's listening, that will be a probably two or three second pause for a 15 minute conversation of Lance taking care of the customers. And that's why we're here is to take care of the customers. Jimmy Lea: So Lance, I appreciate you doing that, brother. Lance Lupi: Not a problem. I appreciate you, you being patient with me, Jimmy. So, so a few weeks ago I watched a video with Cecil and Michael Smith, and that was kind of the catalyst. I started thinking about where do I want to be in a couple years, what do I wanna do? Lance Lupi: And if I decided at some point in the future that. If I wanted to exit, what would that look like? And what, no matter what I did here, what would really be the value of the business? Would it really be that what I needed to be in order to fulfill the goals that I have for myself? And lo and behold, I guess probably because of, you know, that I got a call from someone asking me more about it. Lance Lupi: And, we started to, I started to really engage in that conversation and I finally just said, if I don't do this now I'm either not gonna do it or I'm not gonna do it when I need to do it, so I might as well just rip the bandaid off and let's go for it. Jimmy Lea: Oh that's awesome, man. That, yeah. Jimmy Lea: And that conversation was with Michael Wil Trout. And Michael Wil. Trout asked you some of those hard questions like he did. What's holding you back? Yep. Me. Yeah. What's the biggest challenge? You And I'm aware of that. Yeah. Yeah. What's the biggest challenge in front of you? That you can't overcome yourself and you need a team. Jimmy Lea: You need a coach, you need a community. Uhhuh Lance Lupi: Yeah. Every, everything is an obstacle for me right now, because as I said before I'm wearing all the hats in this place and it's. Getting harder and harder to do it, and I'm not able to provide consistently the level of service that I want to provide. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Lance Lupi: Not bad, but it's just not everything I want it to be, and nor is it everything that it should be. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, and that's good. And I think a lot of people have the wrong conception of what a coach is. Like, a lot of people say, well, I don't want to have another boss. And a coach is not your boss. Jimmy Lea: A coach is like a caddy. A coach is there to help advise you, and guide you and steer you in the right direction and say, Hey, wait a second. I think you might be heading for a bad situation here. You might want to steer around this one. Or you have a roadblock or a mountain that you think is just insurmountable. Jimmy Lea: You come to the coach and they've solved it for three other companies, three other businesses. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or you're in a group environment. Yeah. Hey Lance, we've solved this five times. Here's five different solutions from five different markets and five different shop owners. Yeah. Now that mountain becomes a mole hill, you're able to step over it now. Jimmy Lea: All right, man. Hey, let's just keep going. Yeah. Lance Lupi: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I've kind of plateaued, right? I, you know, my, my numbers, although they have improved, they haven't improved in total revenue, but the numbers underneath those have improved. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Lance Lupi: Because of the changes that I, the incremental changes that I have made from watching, you know. Lance Lupi: Cecil and all the and lots of others. I mean, I can't just, you know, not the only one, but there's there, there's tons of good content out there. Yeah. And little nuggets in a lot of those podcasts that I watch or listen to where, you know, they say something and probably, maybe sometimes I think it's not even intentional. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Lance Lupi: Especially as you get further and further into to Lucas and David's podcast, they kind of, sometimes they stray a little bit, but sometimes there's just a good nugget. I listen to the end. They always say, no one listen to the end. I listen to the end. Jimmy Lea: Yes. I listen to the end as well when I can get on their podcast. Jimmy Lea: I yeah I love the conversations that people have. Their Lance Lupi: banter back and forth is, I don't know how those two met, but their banter back and forth is pretty, pretty organic and. Fun and funny sometimes Jimmy Lea: it, it really is, it's almost a situation where Lucas likes to, to poke the bear and then the bear erupts and he just sits back and giggles and watches the fireworks. Jimmy Lea: Oh, shoot. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's pretty funny. And there's great information out there. We, there's a lot of information and there's a lot of noise. You wanna make sure that you subscribe to someone who has been there, done that to someone who has a proven track record that you want to emulate. Jimmy Lea: And that's important. That's very important. Yeah. Sure. That you are listening to the right people. Lance Lupi: And I felt that, you know, not just watching him, watching you, I mean, tons of webinars and things that I've, you know, been a part of that you were on that, you know, helped me polish some skills as well. Lance Lupi: So, you know, Michael and Cecil and you, and it just felt like it was a good place to be and that I was gonna get the most out of it. Jimmy Lea: Dude, I love it Lance Lupi: from the institute. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Welcome, welcome to the Family, man. We're excited to have you here with us. Lance Lupi: So what is, I'm excited. I'm just, I'm my biggest you know, I'm nervous that I'm gonna let someone down. Jimmy Lea: No. The only person you'd let down would be yourself. And that's the high expectations that we have of ourself, so. Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Jimmy Lea: we're gonna set some high bars. And at that same time as you are reaching for these high bars that you think, there's no way, there's no way I can reach it. There's no way I'm gonna hit that. Jimmy Lea: And then one day you do, and then you grab a hold of that bar, and now you pull yourself up and even higher. Sure. And in the process of the more you jump, the more you leap. The more you stretch yourself, the more you're gonna see, oh my gosh, look how far I've come. From where I was to where I am. Jimmy Lea: So we're shooting for the moon. We're gonna fall in the stars, but eventually we're gonna hit that moon. We're gonna be there and we're gonna be there together, and that's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm Lance Lupi: looking forward to it. Yeah, I've got a lot of things I need to achieve, so I need to get there. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Good, good. And we will get there together. So speaking of getting there, what is the next year's plan, the three year, the five year, the 10 year plan? What do you, what does that look like? Mm-hmm. Lance Lupi: For you, brother? Well, that's a great question. I, you know, I don't know the answer to that. I mean, I'd love to grow the business, like I said as I mentioned earlier, there's, I see tremendous opportunity and growth in this space. Lance Lupi: Whether that means growing this location where I'm at now, or moving a location or adding locations, I don't know, but I just think that with the right help, that there are no limits really. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's so true. But, Lance Lupi: you know, I don't have any kind of concrete plan other than to just make sure that I achieve my goals, which is to grow the business, not have to be here as much as I can because it can run by itself. Jimmy Lea: Love it Lance Lupi: and, you know, be able to do some things and spend time with my family and help my daughter get through college and, you know, maybe have a place for her to land when she's done, who knows where, what that's gonna be, where she's gonna end up. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. I Lance Lupi: don't know. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Where's she going to college? Lance Lupi: Just TCU. Fort Worth, Texas Christian University. Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. Okay. Very good. Big 12. We've got some good family down there in the automotive industry. Yeah. You know, John Firm. Buckaroo. Buckaroo, Bob. Okay. Bucking Buckaroo. Bob. That's his Facebook handle. It's John Firm, firm Automotive. Jimmy Lea: He is 99% fleet work and 1%. Public work. Okay. Yeah. Super awesome guy. I'll have to look Lance Lupi: him up when I'm down there. Jimmy Lea: Do, look him up. A little bit outside of town in Allen, Texas. Is Craig Zale. Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: Craig's Car Care. Super awesome dude. Love his shop. Love him. He's doing great things. Jimmy Lea: Finally got air conditioning for the shop and production has just shot straight through the room. Yeah, I'm especially in Lance Lupi: Texas. Yeah, I'd love to do it here, especially Texas justify, especially in the summer, but. Jimmy Lea: Well, it took him a few years to do it right? Because you gotta save up your money. Jimmy Lea: You gotta save up your money. Money. Sure. There were like two or three times that he was ready to pull the trigger and waited a couple of days to do it. And you know, it's a good thing he did because some catastrophic, something happened and it just had to postpone that air conditioning for another year. Jimmy Lea: So after you doing it a couple of years in a row, he finally has the air conditioning in. Man, I, I think the techs just absolutely love it. Lance Lupi: Yeah. I'm giving 'em a I'm giving him an upgrade this weekend. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. What, oh, Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving weekend. What are you doing? What's the upgrade? Jimmy Lea: No, I mean, Lance Lupi: I'm good. No I'm installing a work saver. This weekend I'm having on two of my garage doors, I'm gonna have, openers installed. Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude. Yeah. Congratulations. That's awesome. Yeah. Oh yeah. They're gonna love that. That's very cool. That'll Lance Lupi: help. I mean, it's really, so my problem is heat and I got a, you know, 20 foot ceilings in here and, you know, the opening and closing of the doors all the time is a, it's a lot of work. Lance Lupi: 'cause like, you know, two people have to be there. We try and minimize the amount of. Escaping air. Jimmy Lea: That's right. So, Lance Lupi: you know, someone's opening the door, pulling the, someone's pulling the car in, someone's closing the door right behind them. So, this should, you know, minimize all those things. Right. Make it a little easier to get the doors open and close and not require two people and not require them to have to lift them up and open the doors close every night and, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool, man. That's really cool. Lance Lupi: They don't know it yet. It's a surprise, but. Jimmy Lea: Hey, trigger Lance Lupi: this weekend. Jimmy Lea: Welcome back on Monday. On Saturday, here's your garage door open. Get on Saturday Lance Lupi: and Sunday and yep. It'll be hopefully ready on Monday. Jimmy Lea: Dude, congrats. That's awesome, brother. That's awesome. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. That's very awesome. So, one more question here for you. Sure. What does leadership mean to you? Lance Lupi: That's a great question. Jimmy, Jimmy Lea: yeah. I'm putting you on. Inspire this one. No, there was no Yeah. Inspiring. Right? Lance Lupi: You know, you're gonna have to inspire the team to want to do their job and be successful at it. Not being afraid to get in and do the work with the team. I mean, I'm out there all the time helping them mount a tire or lift something or taking a delivery or something like that and assist. Lance Lupi: So, you know, not being afraid to do the work that you're expecting the people around you to do. Right. I mean, I can't put in a radiator or, you know, change a spark plug or whatever. But if there's any help that's needed I'm willing to roll up my sleeves. Get my hands dirty and do it. Lance Lupi: And be willing to listen to them and their concerns and their problems, and you know, what I'm not doing, be willing to take that in and not be defensive about it. And be willing to have that conversation and negotiate ways to, to solve the problem and value the input of the team. Lance Lupi: What they have to offer, right? Like, like I said earlier, they've got tons of years of experience. There's tons of things that I learned from them all the time and about, you know, once in a while they have a good idea of how to change the business to, to run it better, you know, as far as in the office part, you know, and then I value their opinions on the repair part. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. That's very cool. It is important as a leader to value your. Members to value your team to hear them. Mm-hmm. And validate their input. I love that. I love that you are leading a group of highly skilled technicians and they are specialists. That is super cool, man. Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Lance, absolutely. Lance Lupi: Like I said before I'm so fortunate to have them. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. For true. This Lance Lupi: business would, I would've not, probably would've closed up shop. A long time ago if I didn't have the group and the team that, that are here. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Team is so important. Man. It is so important. It's so valuable. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Congrats for having a good team there for you and with you that they work with you and man it is, it's all family. It all comes together. Lance Lupi: Yep. We have our ups and downs just like family and. Overall it's mostly ups and you know, once in a while there's a down. Right. Just like with anything else. Jimmy Lea: Just like with anything else. I totally agree. So, last and final question here, as we come to land this plane yeah. If you had a magic wand Yeah. And this magic wand would grant your wish, you can't wish for more wishes, what would you Oh, Lance Lupi: I can't. Jimmy Lea: No, you can't. What would you change in the automotive industry? Jimmy Lea: What would you wish for? Lance Lupi: I'd wish for all the people that don't do the right thing to leave it right. The people that give the rest of the industry a bad name. Jimmy Lea: So it they wish to expel the riff-raff. Lance Lupi: Yeah. Yeah. And just, you know, keep the people that are truly passionate about what they do here. Right. You know, the horror stories that I, and anyone else I'm sure hears of, you know, I took it to this place and they did these five things and that didn't fix the problem. Lance Lupi: And I still had to pay them. And now I'm here to have you fix the problem. Right. So the person that I just helped while we were on break here. Yeah. I said that, you know, anything goes wrong. It's on me now. I told you that this was gonna fix your problem, and if it doesn't, if it costs me $5,000 to fix it, I own it. Jimmy Lea: Wow. There's not a lot of shops out there that would say that, Lance. Well, they should. They should. And that's operating with some high level of integrity as well. Mm-hmm. Lance Lupi: And I've done it. I've had to do it. I've, we've made mistakes. Right. It's, you know, as I tell my customers. The team I've got, and I've, as I expressed here, they're a great team. Lance Lupi: Yep. Lance Lupi: I'll say this. Tom Brady didn't throw a touchdown or win every game. Babe Ruth didn't hit a home run every at bat. Michael Jordan didn't score a hundred points every game. But who do you want on your bench? All those guys, if you had a baseball team, a basketball team, a football team. Who would you want? Lance Lupi: Who are the, you know, who's your all star team that you would put on there? Yeah. And they're not gonna win every game. They're not gonna hit it out of the park every time, but they're gonna give it their all. And that's the, those are the people that you want on your team. And that's what I have here. And you know, but we're never gonna be perfect. Jimmy Lea: Right? Right. Lance Lupi: We're gonna make a bad call. I'm gonna get a bad part. You know, the other, another thing I say is, you know, I can barely control the four walls I've got surrounding me. I can't control the four walls of the parts store or the plant where the part was manufactured or anything like that. Lance Lupi: You know, those things are outta my control and the things that are in my control are still barely in my control. Jimmy Lea: Right. Oh yeah. It's true. It's true. But you're doing a great job, man. It's, I dunno about Lance Lupi: that, Jimmy, but I'm trying. Jimmy Lea: Well see. And that's the beauty of it. We're trying you're doing, you're not on the couch telling other people how to run the business or how to do things. Jimmy Lea: You're in the mix of it and you're part of the solution. You're part of the the movement going forward. I wanna be, yeah. And you've got changing the industry, you've changed, we are changing the industry. How many times can we say that I think there's, they should be, have a podcast about that or something. Jimmy Lea: They should. They should. Maybe. We talk to David and Lucas changing the industry and it's true as much as we can as an industry, lock arms together so that we're not. Leaving anybody behind because it really is a strange and weird and unique and odd and perplexing storm that we're all in. Lance Lupi: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Not all ships are created equal. Lance Lupi: No. Jimmy Lea: Some are gonna catch, but I, Lance Lupi: I Jimmy Lea: some aren't gonna make Yeah. Lance Lupi: And I try to help, you know, the shops that I am close with, and there's about six or seven of them. My area. Nice that, you know, they refer work to me, transmission work to me, and I'll refer certain types of work to them with their specialty. Lance Lupi: And but I try to tell them the things that I've learned from the videos that I've watched, you know what I mean? And the changes that I've made and how impactful they've been to me. Try to get them to do the same thing. And those, they're all people that I respect. And, you know, I, like I said, I send customers there. Lance Lupi: I wouldn't send my customers there if I didn't feel comfortable doing that. So I want to help them. 'cause again, I want them to be successful as well because it, there can't just be one shop. There's gotta be, you know, a bunch of shops. But they should all be great shops. Jimmy Lea: Yep. I agree. And as you do this, as you lock arms with these other shops and those ones that operate with integrity and intention, you are gonna, and this is where you're gonna fit so well with the institute, is that we're here to build a better business. Jimmy Lea: And by us helping you to build a better business, you're gonna build a better life. Better life for you, for your family, for your technicians, for their families. Mm-hmm. And for your clients, for your customers. For those that come and trust you, that become fiercely loyal to you, you're gonna help them have a better life as well. Jimmy Lea: And here's where the institute comes in, that as together and as you are doing with these six other shops, we are gonna build a better industry as well. Lance Lupi: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: So let's keep this bus moving forward and yeah, we're gonna get there and we're gonna get there together. That's gonna be awesome. Lance Lupi: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Jimmy Lea: Awesome. Well, thank you, Lance, man. I really appreciate the conversation. I appreciate where, what you've done, what you're doing, and where you're gonna be going and gonna be doing as well. Mm-hmm. The future is bright. It's exciting, man. Congratulations. Lance Lupi: Yeah, thank you Jimmy. It was a pleasure. Jimmy Lea: Thank you brother.

177 - How Chris Pietrzak Went from 2 Bays to 11 Lifts and Is Redefining Mike’s Garage November 25, 2025 - 00:50:46   Show Summary: One year after buying a tired 2nd-generation shop, Coast Guard veteran Chris “Pizza” Pietrzak has turned Mike’s Garage in Pennsauken, NJ into an 11-bay, tech-forward operation with rising profits and a loyal team. In this episode of The Leading Edge Podcast, host Jimmy Lea sits down with Chris to unpack his 22-year journey from “this place will be yours one day” at a tiny two-bay shop… to being told “take it or leave it”… to finally owning the building, the business, and the vision. They dig into switching from paper to TechMetric, implementing DVIs, building SOPs from scratch, investing in young techs (including buying their tools), and why Chris’ magic-wand wish is to reset society’s view of the automotive repair industry.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Christopher Pietrzak, Owner of Mike’s Garage & Pietrzak Automotive   Show Highlights: [00:02:31] - Chris spends 22 years in a two bay shop he was promised, then walks away from a bad deal and lands a 10,000 square foot, 11 bay facility on a main highway. [00:12:55] - He learns to build his own P&Ls, equipment lists, and projections so he understands the numbers and goes into purchasing Mike’s Garage with confidence. [00:14:40] - Instead of changing everything at once, Chris stabilizes the shop, then methodically upgrades equipment, services, and systems. [00:15:37] - Six months in, he switches from paper to Tekmetric and partners with The Institute to shore up his weaknesses as an owner. [00:19:43] - Chris makes DVIs and photos standard, using SOPs so every car is inspected the same way and trust with customers grows. [00:24:13] - His veteran service advisor uncle embraces new tech as Chris shifts check in photos and communication to the front counter. [00:26:04] - Integrated parts ordering replaces 15 browser tabs and phone calls, freeing the team to focus on higher value work. [00:34:47] - To lower the barrier for entry level techs, Chris buys their first tools and lets them keep them after a year if they commit. [00:42:08] - He sets a long term goal of multiple locations and a four day work week to attract talent and create more family time. [00:46:10] - Chris dreams of resetting society’s view of automotive repair so technicians are seen as skilled, respected professionals, not “grease monkeys.”   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. My name is Jimmy Lea. This is the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Chris. Chris is the owner of Mike's Garage and he is loaded located in New Jersey. Chris, good morning. How are you, brother? Christopher Pietrzak: Good morning, Jimmy. Christopher Pietrzak: I'm good. How about yourself? Jimmy Lea: I am fabulous. Congratulations and thank you. Congratulations. Why? Today, one year, one year anniversary of Mike's Garage, powered by Chris. Congrats, bro. Christopher Pietrzak: Thank you. Thank you. Jimmy Lea: Dude. That, that must have been one heck of a journey. Christopher Pietrzak: Oh it's been a wild journey for sure. Christopher Pietrzak: That's the say of the least. Jimmy Lea: Hey, so what's the weather like in Jersey right now? Jimmy Lea: Cold. Christopher Pietrzak: It's on the nicer side, you know, it's about 40 degrees, so. Jimmy Lea: Oh, you're not bad. We're 37, mostly sunny high of 44 today, so that's nice. Yeah, we got similar weather patterns. I'm in Highland, Utah. Okay. Just outta Salt Lake. Jimmy Lea: So yeah we got similar today. Christopher Pietrzak: Being forgiving. My, my heat's been acting finicky in the shop, so I said I gotta, I have a guy coming up, but he can't make it out until after the holidays. So I said, just hold off the weather. So I'll get my guys freezing out here. Jimmy Lea: Right? Yeah. Do you go get him a butane or propane heaters? Jimmy Lea: Do you hook up that? We have, Christopher Pietrzak: I have two, two waste oil heaters and two gas heaters. So the gas ones are my backup, so I have something. The waste oil. Heat can be finicky at times. Jimmy Lea: Oh, so is it the waste oil that's having the finicky problems, issues for you? Oh, got you. Okay. So you're on backup at the moment? Jimmy Lea: Yes. All right. And how's, how is the shop by the way, Christopher Pietrzak: going? Good. Things are going good. You know, recently we've switched over to a tech metric, got hooked up with Chad, with the institute with some coaching. So things are progressing. You know, I can't complain. You know, I don't look behind me. Christopher Pietrzak: I just keep looking forward and just make tomorrow better than today. That's all. Jimmy Lea: There you go. You're like an Italian race car driver. You don't need a rear view mirror. You're just going straight ahead. Christopher Pietrzak: There we go. That's it. That's it. Fast and furious sense of looking in the past. Jimmy Lea: And let's get into this, Chris, let's talk about your journey because everybody's journey here in the automotive aftermarket is unique and it's special and it's awesome. Jimmy Lea: And I love to hear what your journey is. How did you get into the automotive aftermarket? Christopher Pietrzak: I got into it it was just in high school and I was working a retail job and. My uncle had gotten into cars, my dad mechanical abilities, but never an auto mechanic. He was more of a maintenance mechanic for, you know, a factory. Christopher Pietrzak: So that was in my blood. But you know, I said I wanted to work on cars and my uncle had, then he worked parts and he said, I found a shop that had a unfortunate incident where they lost a technician and they're looking for a young kid to start. I mean, I was 17 years old. He brought me over and I just, I'll never forget that day, the owner was talking to my uncle about what he was going to expect from me, my uncle to him, and said, put his hands up. Christopher Pietrzak: And he said, he's ours. I only brought him here. So I spent the next 22 years of my life at this place. You know, it became, I took a little break. I joined the service. I was gone for about eight years, but the industry called me back. You know, I, came back and was working back with him and everything was great. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, he was getting older and he was always under the pretense that this place would be yours one day. And that sounds great, especially coming from, you know, hearing it from someone at the, you know, I respected in the industry. He's got 50 some plus years in it. And I'm like, okay, well what he says makes sense to me. Christopher Pietrzak: It wasn't until. We got closer to that time when I started getting a grasp on what it actually takes to purchase a business. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Christopher Pietrzak: And that's when we kind of got into the, it was never an argument, but it was just at the end of the day, he doesn't wanna retire, which I have to respect, you know, that's just, you know, he is 80, 84 years old now and he's still working. Jimmy Lea: Shut the front door. 84. Are you saying he's wrenching or is he working the office? Christopher Pietrzak: Oh, he's rent never. Never in the office. When I was there, it was, he doesn't like answering the phones. He doesn't like computers and he doesn't do billing. Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. So Christopher Pietrzak: he just wanted to wrench. The rest was put on me. Christopher Pietrzak: Which I gladly accepted that role. Okay. Speaker 3: Okay. Christopher Pietrzak: Because in the back of my mind, one day this place was going to be mine. You know, the countless hours of coming in early, staying late, working the weekends, just to keep this customer base happy, thinking this is gonna be mine one day. Well, we hit the situation where, you know, he didn't want to get involved with numbers. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Right. Christopher Pietrzak: He didn't wanna get involved with providing me with any sort of, whether it be inventory, property, appraisal, business, appraisal, equipment, any of that. He said, that's all on you. Okay. Then I actually started looking into it, comparing it to what he was asking, and we just couldn't, it was originally offering some seller financing. Christopher Pietrzak: Then we kind of, we backtracked on that and it was just, this is the number, take it or leave it. And just so happened that same uncle that dropped me off there Speaker 3: Yep. Christopher Pietrzak: Happened to now be the service writer for Mike's garage. Mike had heard the story, you know, through them talking and he had mentioned to my uncle and said. Christopher Pietrzak: Well, does he wanna buy this place? So we came down and we talked and you know, they were talking comparable numbers and the first shop was a two bay shop, two in-ground hydraulic air to hydraulic lifts that leaked. You know, it had to, yeah, they Speaker 3: did. Christopher Pietrzak: You know. I never realized how unsafe it was until I left and was like, wow, I've been working under that for 20 something years. Christopher Pietrzak: I should have been addressed. But, and long story short, now I have, you know, 10,000 square foot, 11 bay facility right on a right, on a major highway. So it's a win-win. You know, every, I always tell myself everything happens for a reason. You may not know, you may not know tomorrow, but eventually. You'll realize that everything does happen for a reason. Christopher Pietrzak: And you know, in that moment when that deal was falling through, I was not in a good place. You know, that was, yeah. Ever since I, when I met my wife, you know, she, when we first met, it was always, whenever we talk about the future, it was, I'm gonna own a shop. I'm gonna own a shop, I'm gonna own a shop. If I hell or high water, I'm gonna own a shop, whether it's the one I'm at, whether I find one or whether I just rent a garage and start this. Christopher Pietrzak: I said, I'm not gonna let the years of dedication, hard work that I put in to maintain this clientele to go out the window. Christopher Pietrzak: You know? 'cause there's been times where it's like, do I just leave this state? Do I find somewhere else? You know, do we start fresh somewhere else? And I said, no. You know, I put in the work. Christopher Pietrzak: And this is what I don't like saying what's owed to me. 'cause I don't feel anything in life is owed to anybody. But I earned it. I earned this clientele. I earned, this is my home, this is my area. I'm not leaving these customers. So Jimmy Lea: congratulations on doing that, that there's so much to unpack in there. Jimmy Lea: So first of all, thank you for your service. Which line of military were you in? Coast Guard. Coast Guard. Congrats. My father-in-law was also Coast Guard during wartime eight years. That's phenomenal. Congrats on coming back to it. So when you were at the previous location, what was the footprint? How many lifts, how many employees? Jimmy Lea: What did that look like? Christopher Pietrzak: It was, you're looking at it, I was everything. It was me. Yeah. It was me and the owner. That was it. It was two bays, two lifts, oh my gosh. One drive on, one drive on, and one center post forearm lift, which we did have one outside lift that was not being used. There was a vehicle on for 20 some years, but I bought an F Body Camaro that I needed to, that was doing a motor in, so I needed to drop the subframe, which I needed that lift for. Christopher Pietrzak: So. I ended up rebuilding that lift just so I can do that job. Oh my. But Jimmy Lea: that's hilarious. Yeah, Christopher Pietrzak: it was. I was there and we had one other guy there, but he had retired and that's when the owner was like, I'm not gonna hire anybody because I don't want it to be your burden. I want you to hire who you want. Christopher Pietrzak: And then 12 years went by. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, 12 years and the guy's still there and he's still drinking the coffee every morning and he's still having the same conversations. Oh, that's hilarious. So you, hey, you've heard it said before where if you want to hear God laugh, you tell him what your plan is because he says, Hey, you know what, I got a better plan for you, Chris. Christopher Pietrzak: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. And so now you're in a 10,000 square foot. 11. Did you say 11 lifts? 11, yes. 11. Oh, congrats, man. How many techs are you? Christopher Pietrzak: I have four. Four technicians. Yeah. One service writer, not including myself. Jimmy Lea: So you step in as the catchall. Christopher Pietrzak: Exactly. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And you have to, man. You have to, until you get to the point where you've got enough technicians, enough service advisors, and a manager, then you're able to work on the business all the time. Jimmy Lea: But right now you gotta be in there. You gotta be in for the grind. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So 22 years you were at the previous location combined altogether. 22 years, yes. Wow. Congrats on enduring all that and getting to the point where now you own Mike's garage and everybody probably wants to call you Mike. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: Hey, I see you. He's Mike there. Jimmy Lea: I wanna talk to Mike. Christopher Pietrzak: I, my, I have one, one of my techs here, his name is Mike. So when people say, I wanna talk to Mike, I say, well, listen, Mike, if they're looking to complain, I'm gonna hand over the phone to you. You'll handle this. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Oh, that's great. He's gonna quickly change his name to Michael. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah, that was it. Been about the name of the business and I've been working with Chad about this, that I want to change the name and my last name is not an easy one to say or spell. So I said Mike has an easier ring to, I said, it may just be easier for me to change my name to Mike instead of changing the business name. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Well, you're powered by Chris, or that's it. How do you say your last name, Chris? Christopher Pietrzak: Pizza. Pizza. Pete. Zack. Yeah. The R is just in there for looks Jimmy Lea: right. It's a silent R. Christopher Pietrzak: Yep. Yep. Jimmy Lea: My wife's name is Rhonda and she has a silent H. She made a joke a while ago that she was gonna put in a silent seven in place of the H and just have it be our seven oh NDA. Jimmy Lea: It was funnier when we were talking about it. It didn't catch on. Oh, that's cool. Mike. Mike Chris. Christopher Pietrzak: There we go. That's all right. That's all right, Jimmy. I'll take it. Jimmy Lea: You'll take it. Well, congrats on where you're at, man. Here you are. A year in. When you bought it from Mike what did that look like? Jimmy Lea: Is what did the deal look like for you on your side? Christopher Pietrzak: I mean, the deal broke it down. I got the property and the business, you know, and to sum up a long story, his analogy was, you know, the place just needed breath of fresh air and needed some new ideas, you know, to really unlock its full potential. Christopher Pietrzak: You know? And when I first, when we were first doing the business again, I was. A lot of it was on me. You know, the bank wants numbers. Yeah. And I want numbers. I want numbers. It's purchasing the place. You know, the owner's always going to tell you that the place is profitable. I've never seen someone selling something that say, it's not worth, it's not worth it. Christopher Pietrzak: So to do my own due diligence, and it really gave me a good idea on the numbers, you know? Mm-hmm. Instead of just somebody giving me a report and reading it. It's totally different when you're the one creating the report, you know? Yeah. The numbers kind of sink in better. So, you know, I handled all that situation, you know, between equipment, p and l, statements, expenses, projections so in the moment it was driving me nuts. Christopher Pietrzak: I was losing sleep over it after everything settled. I was glad that I had to go through all that, you know, it was a lot of work, but it was a good learning experience. You know, and then once we took over it was kind of step one was cleaning up. You know, I kept, everything kept ev all the systems in place that were in place that seemed to be working, you know, paper statements, you know, were handwriting notes, texts are getting clipboards. Jimmy Lea: Oh boy. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah, that got old pretty quick. Was tired. How Jimmy Lea: quick did you go from paper to tech metric then? Christopher Pietrzak: About six months. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, once I told everybody, I said We may we're making settlement, I was, I'm letting the dust settle. Jimmy Lea: Amen. Christopher Pietrzak: Then I'll start reviewing, you know, everything from internet provider to insurance. Christopher Pietrzak: I said, but I'm not looking to change the world overnight. I said, I want to dissect it, see where we're at. And then I, you know, he was the internet provider. Everything was so out of date. So everything takes time. You know, we were just updating everything between equipment and services and then I got to the point where, you know, I started doing my research on these different softwares available and Speaker 3: yeah, Christopher Pietrzak: you know, I landed with Tech Metric. Christopher Pietrzak: Honestly I listened to a lot of podcasts. I was listening to a lot of change in the industry, which led me to the institute and Oh, nice. It really sunk home. When, between the process of purchasing to then shifting gears to now running and owning and running the place, I realized that I need help, you know? Christopher Pietrzak: One thing I've learned from my first garage I've worked at and the interim would always tell me was, you know, I know what I know and I know what I don't know. And you know, I knew my strengths and my weaknesses and I wanted to minimize the weaknesses. So we got hooked up with the Institute and even the short period of time that I had been with the institute and switched over to Tech Metrics, I can see. Christopher Pietrzak: I don't feel it gradually because it just happens. You know, Chad gives me an assignment, you know, here let's work on this, work on that. And in the moment you're thinking, you know, how's this really gonna propel me to the next level? And then even just like I said, the short period of time on where I, I feel like I was two months ago to where I'm at now, I never would've expected myself. Christopher Pietrzak: To be at this point in general, I've always envisioned my, like I said, the shop I was at, he was 80 some years old. We just left a DOS based billing software about six years ago. The biggest issue was getting RI ribbon ink for the printer. You know, it was carbon copy, so to go from that. And it was a cash or check only. Christopher Pietrzak: No credit cards, no sort of electronic payments, no. And. A lot of my mentors and people who have been with Mason's beginning of the process are all older. Speaker 3: Oh yeah. So, Christopher Pietrzak: you know, in this area, I feel like I'm kind of blazing the path of this new generation of auto repair. You know, where we're headed with, whether it be dvs, you know, stuff that. Christopher Pietrzak: People got, you know, I don't wanna say get away from, they never really got involved with Speaker 3: Yeah. Because they Christopher Pietrzak: feel like it's too much work. Speaker 3: Right. You know? Right. Christopher Pietrzak: This has been working for me, this is what you gotta do. Everybody, you know, and I'm, and I say, great. And then I also listen to them, Andre, the same ones that are complaining about, whether it be the industry as a whole or business. Speaker 3: Yeah. And. Christopher Pietrzak: And a lot of 'em, I'm very grateful for the support the community, the auto repair community I have in my local area. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. It's so true. There's enough Christopher Pietrzak: work to go around, you know, you have your few gatekeepers, but at the end of the day, they're not hurting me. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, and there's a few shops that you really don't wanna lock arms with. Jimmy Lea: They're not your friends, they're not your enemies. They're just not people you want to be associated with. And that's fine. But there is such a great community out there that does wanna lock arms with you, that does want to see you succeed because they know, as, you know, every car passing in front of your shop and their shops. Jimmy Lea: There's no way you guys could all handle every vehicle that comes through. Speaker 3: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: There is a variety out there. And you wanna lock arms with those that are gonna help you succeed, which this community is very strong. So I love that you're in this six months after you started, you switched to Tech Metric, you're going for paper to computer. Jimmy Lea: I'm interested to know your customer base. When you switched and started doing dvs, what did they, what was their response? Christopher Pietrzak: Day one, it was paying off. I don't. I don't see any negative side of a DVI. I feel big. Everybody's biggest hurdle is time. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: Guess what? You have to practice to make it perfect, so it's not going to be smooth out of the gate. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Christopher Pietrzak: And one thing that worked with Chad and is an SOP, get it in writing. Once, once there is a repetitive process, things will move faster. I'm still not there yet, but we're working towards it. You know, we're getting the system going to where nothing's overlooked, but d need to be standard practice across the board in this industry. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. Christopher Pietrzak: There's no way. How you're going to gain the customer's trust and have them change their views on this industry is we have to elevate our side as well to meet the expectations that we want them to see us as. They're never gonna take us serious if a picture tells a thousand words, you know, it does, and the time that it saves. Christopher Pietrzak: One of my biggest hurdles was my service writer, who's my uncle. You know, he was here at Mike's when I purchased it, and he stayed. So the transition, I'd say about half the people think he's Mike anyway, you know. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That's good. Christopher Pietrzak: It just, it makes it smooth. I still have a few customers that come in that didn't even realize I painted the building. Christopher Pietrzak: So that's when people start asking like, oh, did Mike sell? Because he painted the building. Yeah, because somebody's cleaning up around here. Something had to happen, so, oh, that's Jimmy Lea: great. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: I was wondering if you took a pressure washer to everything, washed it all down and then started doing up your paint. Christopher Pietrzak: Everything I could, it wasn't burn. I burn out my pressure washer. Cleaning that the floors and the oil heat is not it's nice burning your waste, but it's messy. It's messy. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it is. The soot and the grime and the grease and the grit that comes from it. Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: Yep. Yeah. And then it gets in the biggest obstacles, keeping it outta customer's cars, Speaker 3: you know? Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. So, but we stay on top of that. But it's been, you know, with the whole switching over to Tech Metric and with the customer feedback that I've been getting between now offering online billing, online payments. Jimmy Lea: Oh, how about the text to pay Christopher Pietrzak: financing options? Phenomenal. It's a game changer when it comes to, you know, how I've always seen it done at the previous shop and it's, if you want a line of credit. Christopher Pietrzak: It's like, yeah, we'll arrange something now. We don't have to do that. Here's, you can apply and click here. You can deal with them. Click there. And it's been, like I said, and just the communic, the forms of communication. They can text the shop number directly, whether it's I'm having an issue instead of the my counter guy spending 10 minutes on the phone. Christopher Pietrzak: Trying to get a description from a non-automotive background individual. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Christopher Pietrzak: To make sense of what's happening, where a simple text and picture done. No phone call needed. You can, he continues to work. It comes in, we look at it. Send a picture of the VIN or the tag. I can already get it going. Jimmy Lea: So question for you about your service advisor. Jimmy Lea: That's your uncle. So I'm guessing he's got a few years on you and he went from paper to tech metric to digital vehicle inspections, text to pay, online pay. What was his adoption of all this technology? Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah, so, he's open to it, you know what I mean? That's the good part. You know, he's. He is been nothing but supportive in the changes I've made. Christopher Pietrzak: A lot of the times it's me, I have to do certain things a certain amount of times before I can be affluent in it. So I tend to, you know, he's more than willing to go through it. I, but I gotta have, you know, going through the process now. Vehicle check-ins, for instance. You know, I want these pictures taken, this done. Christopher Pietrzak: At first I have the text doing it and I'm saying, well stop. Let's have you do it. You know, this way, if there's an issue that can be seen directly in that moment, it can be addressed, and it's not a phone call 20 minutes later. Again, all about time management, you know, oh, it's here for a noise. I noticed just your oil changes is overdue. Christopher Pietrzak: I noticed your tire light's on be, do you want these things addressed? Easy enough. But yeah, he's been, he is been grasping it, you know, getting, especially with the texting estimates, inspections, it saves him time linked up through parts tech, having all our suppliers on one screen. You know, it's once, once you get some repetition. Christopher Pietrzak: It and I wish I could talk to every person who is nervous about making a change like that or doesn't trust certain situations. You know, I don't trust them when it tells me this and that. You're missing out on just a smoother workflow all, all across the board, you know, whether Oh, it's so true, dude. Jimmy Lea: So true. Jimmy Lea: It's, Christopher Pietrzak: you know, having that. Like, it's still new enough to me where I can still remember having 15 windows open from different suppliers or pulling out your sheet, what all your phone numbers, going down, making phone calls, write down, okay, Napa was this much, c and m was this much, worldpac was this much, what brand? Christopher Pietrzak: And all of that is eliminated by having these systems in place. Jimmy Lea: Technology. You've got the technology in place. Yeah. And you've got systems in place and you documented it all into an SOP so that now onco can follow it. You can follow it, and when you hire the next advisor is gonna be able to follow that same process and procedure because you've got it established Christopher Pietrzak: 100%. Christopher Pietrzak: That is my main goal going through main goal when it's coming to SOPs, implementing procedures and processes. That's what I told Chad is my biggest goal is to get these procedures and processes in place, and I tell them, I know for example, him, you have decades of experience in this industry. I have technicians that have decades. Christopher Pietrzak: I have technicians that have weeks in the industry. Yes. I said, my goal is to put these into place. You are my beta testers. Let's go through it because at the end of the day, something happens, I need my system to be plug and play. You know it's not gonna be a hundred percent because you can't plug and play relation customer relationships. Speaker 3: Yeah, true. But Christopher Pietrzak: I can plug and play processes. I know that whoever I have on front counter is going to take the four corner pictures that will change. The gauge cluster and the inspection sticker. That's what I need from my front counter, whether regardless of who's sitting up there. Speaker 3: Oh, I love it. Speaker 3: You know, Christopher Pietrzak: that's my whole goal, you know, is to get these processes in place so it can be a plug and play scenario. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and I love that you're involving your technicians, whether they're two weeks on the job or two decades on the job. You guys are my betas. I need to know if this works or not. Jimmy Lea: You get their buy-in and you take their feedback as well. And the the brand new technician might have some ideas that are outside of the view of the dudes that have been there for 20 plus years because they've got some form of technology that's gonna help. With the process procedure and the efficiency where somebody who's 20 plus years, they may not have been exposed to that technology yet. Christopher Pietrzak: Yes. Jimmy Lea: So by I, I Christopher Pietrzak: look at it, I look at it as a benefit, having that 30 year technician and that for a month technician. Some people say, oh, it's tough having training. He represents 90% of my customer base. Yeah. If I can explain it to him. So he understands it. And it's the same with my wife. You know, she's not fluent in the automotive business. Christopher Pietrzak: She supports me, but I asked for her feedback and she goes, well, I don't really know. I don't really know. I said, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I need feedback from you. And I need feedback from the guy who's been doing it for 40 years. Yes, because that's on. I've worked around guys. We've had a crew where they were all veterans. Christopher Pietrzak: Trying to implement change into a group of veterans is a little bit trickier than having a mix. Yes. I have guys that have a year, like I said, up to 40 and everywhere in between. Speaker 3: Wow. So Christopher Pietrzak: we have, you know, it's a good, it's a good blending. The younger guy can help out the older guy when it comes to technology. Christopher Pietrzak: You know how to, let's do this, do that. And vice versa. He is got questions about how things work, you know, and they kind of have their own ecosystem back there. You know, I'm always, I'm the go-to guy for any question, but I it makes me proud to see my team work as well as they do together, you know? Christopher Pietrzak: Oh, I love it because this is my family here. You know, I have enough at home. I have four kids home, but. You know, at the end of the day, this is, most of my time is spent, you know, it's, and that's, I wanna make the best of it, and I want to, I want them to have a good experience as well. And making changes without looking for input is just setting yourself up for failure, because you could do something that makes sense to me, you know? Jimmy Lea: And to that point, so, you know, I love that you talk about training and you need the training. Your guys need training as well. There's a lot of conferences and trade shows that are very close to you, by the way, I don't know if you're aware of like, tools. Do you know about tools? I, you know, Pennsylvania, I have. Christopher Pietrzak: Okay. Jimmy Lea: You take your dudes up there. It's not that far. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. Quickly drive. Jimmy Lea: Another one is WMDA. The Wilmington, Maryland, Delaware automotive Association. They've got a conference that's coming up. It's a one day, one and a half day, two day event. That's really good. Asta down in North Carolina. Jimmy Lea: Phenomenal, phenomenal show to go to. Christopher Pietrzak: I've heard. I've heard. About Asta. Jimmy Lea: Well, and Asta is where Chad's gonna be. 'cause Chad, that's his backyard. I mean, he drives from, it's a couple hours drive or something for him to go from Locus over to Raleigh. But the, to the point of training, you've gotta budget that into your business. Jimmy Lea: 'cause if you just say, okay, everybody, hey, we're all going to ASTA next September. Pack your bags, make sure everybody's ready to go. And you haven't accounted for that in your business. Now it's, that's a heavy lift for the entire business to do it. Check your numbers, work it in there so that out of every car you service between now and September, you got a dollar or $2 or $10 or whatever the numbers is. Jimmy Lea: You've gotta analyze that and know what the numbers are so you can take the full shop to the training, or maybe you don't take the full shop. Maybe you take half of 'em this year and half of them next year. Guys, this is what we have to do. We have to perform at this level. Anybody performing at this level? Jimmy Lea: 'cause you analyze your numbers. Anybody performing at this level gets to go to the show because essentially you're paying your way to go by performing at this level. Anybody under that, you know, we just, we can't afford to take you. Christopher Pietrzak: And it shows me that you're invested. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You know Christopher Pietrzak: it, let alone the money that you're making me is great to pay for the trip. Christopher Pietrzak: But the fact that you are performing or overachieving shows me that you're invested in this. Yeah. So I will, I tell them I will invest as much as I possibly can into you if this is what you want. Speaker 3: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: This is not, you know, it's not a let's go on a vacation and not take any information in while you're there. Christopher Pietrzak: And by taking everybody, like you said, maybe not making it a performance based marker that gets you eligibility. There's not a, there's no, no investment into it, you know? Yeah. And that's all I, that's all I want, you know, people to, I want everybody to love it as much as me, Jimmy Lea: right? We do. We want them to love it. Jimmy Lea: And the point of training is, well, what if I train 'em and they leave? Chris, what if I take 'em to all these conferences, all these trade shows? What if I train them and they leave? Okay, well, what's the opposite of that? What if you don't train them and they stay? Now you've got technicians that aren't going after the training and you're pouring into them. Jimmy Lea: You're pouring into them knowledge and information, taking them to the training. So I applaud you for doing that. That is phenomenal. Chris. Thank you very much. Christopher Pietrzak: Thank you. And one of the programs, like I, I've been working with the local high school. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Get Christopher Pietrzak: some, you know, get some guys that come over. Christopher Pietrzak: Summertime was a little bit easier. Now it's, you know, but now they went back to school. But, you know, my, my newest tech here speak. I purchased tools, you know, and I said, these are my tools. Until you have 12 months here, you give me a year you can take and you decide that this business, this industry is not for you. Christopher Pietrzak: They're your tools to take. But until then, you know, I can't, I feel like one of the biggest drivers that keep people out of this business is the cost of equipment. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: Just basic hand tools. Jimmy Lea: It's true. If you wanna get professional grade automotive professional, you are spending five grand to get a small box and a good set of sockets and wrenches and that. Jimmy Lea: You easily five grand. Christopher Pietrzak: And then you're asking these guys or gals to make that purchase without even them understanding if they wanna be in this business. Speaker 3: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: Like you're asking them like, you know, give automotive a shot. You know, you might like it, but then it's like, but in order to even give it a shot, you have to drop $5,000. Christopher Pietrzak: And then they're like. You know, I can go make coffee for $22 at the local Wawa. Christopher Pietrzak: And you know, my big, my always pitch with that is, you know, room for growth. Speaker 3: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, this is where you're starting in this industry. The sky is the limit on where you wanna take it. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Christopher Pietrzak: And that's. That's solely on you. You know, I can I'll lead a horse to water. Christopher Pietrzak: I'll provide you with what you need, provide you with the most up-to-date scan tools, you know, tire equipment. I'm trying to make it as easy as it is as I can for you to try out this business. Yep. You know, and to be successful. And you, the more you show me that you're invested in it, then the more I'll support you. Jimmy Lea: Dude. That's awesome. Congrats, man. That is so awesome. Thank you. It sounds very similar to this. The story I had with my son he decided that he wanted to play baseball, and I was like, oh, okay. Hopefully this isn't a flash in the pan, but just in case. We went to Walmart and we bought a bat, an eastern bat, just a inexpensive little bat, a tiny little glove, tiny, you know, pair of cleats that he could wear. Jimmy Lea: Is this the real deal? Is he really gonna enjoy this? And it was finally when the coach came to us after a couple years and he says, you know, you really ought to get James a, a proper. Oh, okay. Yeah. He likes it that much now, does he? Yeah. Yeah. You might consider getting him a different glove and at that point we, instead of being out a couple hundred bucks for a bat and glove and cleats, it was like three 50 for a bat and two 50 for a glove and cleats that are a hundred bucks a pop. Jimmy Lea: And oh my gosh his baseball career. Woo. Christopher Pietrzak: Luckily he went to baseball, not ice hockey. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, ice hockey, Christopher Pietrzak: all that gear. Jimmy Lea: Oh, the padding, the sticks, the clea the skate, the traveling. Oh. Like he was, we did do travel baseball. Luckily for us it was very close within driving distance. We were in St. Jimmy Lea: George, Utah. So it was either Vegas or up to Cedar City, beaver, maybe even as high as Lehigh Provo. So it was always driving distance for us. We never went state to state that would require flying. That's good. Yeah. Except for once we did go to Cooperstown. Oh, Christopher Pietrzak: okay. Jimmy Lea: You know, Cooperstown very Christopher Pietrzak: nice. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. My, my kids are still younger, but you know, like the baseball program always has a fundraiser to send the Cooperstown team out there every year for the tournament and. Jimmy Lea: We did it. Dude. It was so rad. It was so much fun. They have that 200 foot back wall and so there's a lot of home runs that are hit out there. Jimmy Lea: It is so cool. So much fun. Christopher Pietrzak: I'm looking forward to it. That's why I have to get all of my systems in processes in place, because I have a family that there's nothing more in this world that I love spending time with. You know, I said, my wife's supporting me through this, you know, I said like, I know I'm. Christopher Pietrzak: Burning the candle on both ends. I have, this is a lot of work, but at the end of the day, you know, I would love to be able to spend more time and when there's an event, it's not, dad's gotta work. He can't be here, you know? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: No, you gotta be there. You gotta be. They're only Christopher Pietrzak: young. They're only young once. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Amen, brother. Oh, congrats. What sports are they into? Is it ice hockey for your kids? No, I Christopher Pietrzak: haven't got that. It's baseball. My oldest is baseball, football, wrestling. Wow. And my second son, he's not into much. He's got, he is got a little bit of a delay. So he's his sports career. He loves, he's a big supporter of his brother and sister. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. He comes out to support them. And then my oldest daughter, she's flag football, dance gymnastics. And then my youngest, we haven't dabbled yet. She's just about to turn two, so we got time on Jimmy Lea: that one. Oh, you got time on that one. Oh, congrats man. That's awesome. That's awesome. Sounds like you got a beautiful family there and young. Jimmy Lea: They're growing. They're gonna develop. And that's the beauty is you are the caddy in their life. You get to help guide and protect them for a few years. Christopher Pietrzak: Worst case is if hiring process gets tough I got four techs lined up, you know? Jimmy Lea: Yep. They're ready. Let's bring them in the shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, man. Congrats. That's so awesome. Yeah. Well, speaking of the the future is our children, but what about Mike's Garage? What's the future for Mike's Garage and what's the future for Chris? What does that look like? Christopher Pietrzak: Ultimately? I would love to purchase that shop that I was supposed to buy the first go around. Christopher Pietrzak: Just been talking, I haven't been here long enough. I was very fortunate on what this property appraised for and what was purchased for. Speaker 3: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, so I'm fortunate to where I have some equity here and I just don't have enough. We haven't been here long enough for the bank to feel comfortable to borrow against it, but I said I would love to go back and purchase that place. Christopher Pietrzak: Long story short, I'd like to have multiple locations and a four day work week. Jimmy Lea: Oh, there you go. Christopher Pietrzak: So I said that's a lot of baseball Jimmy Lea: you'd be traveling to. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah, and I feel like I said I'm not at a four day work week. I hear horror stories about hiring process. I've dealt with a few of my own. I said sometimes it's not about money on what you can offer employees. Christopher Pietrzak: People start hearing that you have a four day work week. People aren't, people are more in tune to, you know, hey, maybe I don't mind four 10 hour days or four 11 hour days. Like, we'll still get, you know, I said obviously that process is. I'm not at the point of implementing anything yet. I have a thought process of where I'm headed on how I'm going to do it, but ultimately that would be where I would wanna be a four day work week. Christopher Pietrzak: I said it's two birds. One stone makes employee happy and it's gonna entice help coming in, you know, and set up and just let the word of mouth travel and amongst the tech community. See what see what happens. But right now I got a good squad. I don't need any more help currently, but I'm always open to the idea, you know, Jimmy Lea: you, yeah. Jimmy Lea: And you will, you've got 11 bays with four techs, so each tech has two bays at the moment. But really, if you optimize every single one of those bays. You should be doing 40,000 per bay. That's 400,000 a month times 12, that's 4.8 million a year. That's the potential you got at outta your shop. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. I have to get, where I'm running into with the new system is service writer. Speaker 3: Yep. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, he's from what he's learning, yeah. You know, a new system then to now. When I purchased the place, we had two techs Speaker 3: that he Christopher Pietrzak: was writing for, so I brought on one left, three new ones came in. So now I'm asking him to learn a new program as well as your workload now doubled. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, as far as writing. Jimmy Lea: It does. It does and it doesn't because of the technology. It's probably the same as what it used to be by adding two techs Christopher Pietrzak: and I'm more, you just gotta get that system Jimmy Lea: down. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah. And I'm more involved with it. You know, there was the old software I came in, it was what was being used and it wasn't used nearly as efficient as that could have been. Speaker 3: Right. You know, Christopher Pietrzak: little details that were left out of bills. That were just screwing up the whole number system. Couldn't get any information off of it. Speaker 3: Oh no. Christopher Pietrzak: Didn't quite understand how he was making the bills, so that's why we pulled the bandaid off and said, we're switching it up. I'm gonna become more fluent in this software so I can help with service writing as well as training. Christopher Pietrzak: You know, I can't rely on one person to do it all right? And I feel like as the owner, I should have the answers. I should know how things work in my own place. Jimmy Lea: There you go. There you go. Well keep at it, brother. That's awesome. Congrats. You got a bright future ahead of you, even if you buy the other location, just to be able to have it as your own personal headquarters. Speaker 3: Exactly what, Jimmy Lea: whatever it looks like, brother, that's gonna be phenomenal. And to be a passenger on this ride, watch this stuff happening with you. Chris, this is gonna be awesome. Congrats. Thank you. Congrats. Thank you. Well, last and final question for you, brother. I, if you were to have a magic wand. Jimmy Lea: And you waive this wand, it grants your wish. You can wish for anything you want to except for more wishes. What would you wish for Chris? Christopher Pietrzak: I would wish that we could reset society's views and opinions on this industry and not make anybody look at us a certain way or think about this industry a certain way. Christopher Pietrzak: Just to give us a clean slate to give, to afford us the opportunity to earn the trust of society and kind of change the perspective on how this industry is viewed. Whether it's from parents having discussions with their children on what they wanna do when they get older. You know, simple comments like, oh, you don't want to be a grease monkey, or, so you know, this is this that. Christopher Pietrzak: Train of thought, that mentality is long gone and in are the new ways of thinking. Grease monkeys have no place for it really anymore. You know, they're far and few between. They are what technicians used to be. Now there's no, people need to take, technicians need to take pride in their work and not portray themselves as just a mechanic. Christopher Pietrzak: Yeah, nothing drives me more. When they say, well, I just work on cars, you don't just work on cars. This is a very respectable field to work in, and the level of training is so underestimated and it's really, it's our jobs as business owners to communicate to our communities and our customers so they can understand what goes into this business and. Christopher Pietrzak: What sort of training? Anywhere from the appearance of my building to the appearance of my texts. You know, dress for the position that you want, not the one you have. I said it boils down to how we talk, how we present ourselves, whether that's our language and or our appearance. It's has to change. I wish I could just change it all and just reset and give us, like I said, I'm not asking. Christopher Pietrzak: Like I said before, nothing is owed to anybody. Yep. But just gimme the opportunity to earn that respect and you know, let you to change your mind, hope, and let you be open to the point that this is just as much of an important career as. Nursing, welding, you know, any sort of these professional crews, we need them all. Christopher Pietrzak: We need everybody. We do, you know, it's not, these cars are not gonna fix themselves and I don't care if they can drive themselves, if you plug them in or you gas 'em up. They all have tires. They all have brakes. You know, this industry isn't going anywhere. We just have to adapt to change with the times, you know? Speaker 3: Yeah. Christopher Pietrzak: Unfortunately. I'm not the only one that feels that way, and a lot of resources, time and money is being put into this industry as a whole, and I couldn't be happier to be in it. And through all the good days and the bad days, I, people call me crazy, but I still love what I do. There is still just a rush on fixing something, especially when nobody else can fix it. Christopher Pietrzak: That customers look on their face when they just I don't know how you do it. You know, it's, I'll never get over that feeling. And, you know, no matter how much I'm cussing inside my head, I still absolutely love what I do. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Because at the end of the day we'd give the shirt off our back to help people. Jimmy Lea: And that's why you got into this business is to help people. We just happen to work on cars. Exactly. Exactly. We just happen to work on cars. That's it. And Chris, I see it happening. I see that wish coming true. You are elevating this industry. You are elevating the transparency with customers, with clients, with your digital vehicle inspection, with your ability to put a new coat of paint on a building and have people know there's something happening here. Jimmy Lea: Keep in, keep involvement with that high school that is our future. That's where it's gonna happen. That's where it's gonna go. Yes. You are making a difference, brother. Keep it up and thank you. Christopher Pietrzak: Appreciate it, Jimmy. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. Jimmy Lea: You're very welcome. Thank you. Christopher Pietrzak: Thank you.

176 - Building Anchor Motorworks with Seth Lancaster: Diesel Dreams, Euro Cars & a 4-Day Workweek November 20, 2025 - 00:48:28   Show Summary: When Seth Lancaster was five, he already knew he wanted to be a mechanic. Today, he’s living that dream as the owner of Anchor Motorworks in Laurie / Gravois Mills, Missouri, a growing five-bay European specialty shop serving Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, and especially diesel SUVs. In this episode of The Leading Edge Podcast, host Jimmy Lea sits down with Seth to trace his unconventional path: shade-tree wrenching with his dad, years as a missionary and English teacher in Mozambique (where he watched alternators and starters get rebuilt instead of replaced), becoming a diesel tech and firefighter back in the States, and finally taking the leap into shop ownership. Seth shares the real story behind moving from a tiny 2-bay shop with no lift to a busy 5-bay facility, why masterminds like ASOG and MWACA changed everything for his business, and how a four-day workweek, deposits on big jobs, and rock-solid SOPs are helping him protect his time, his family, and his sanity. If you’re a shop owner wearing all the hats, this conversation will feel very, very familiar and give you a roadmap forward.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Seth Lancaster, Owner of Anchor Motorworks   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] - Seth shares how updating signage and online presence immediately improved customer clarity and shop visibility. [00:03:56] - Early hands-on experience with engines shaped his confidence and mechanical problem-solving from a young age. [00:10:05] - His time in Mozambique taught him resourcefulness and repair skills that serve him daily in shop ownership. [00:13:38] - Returning home, he built a diverse skill set that positioned him for long-term success as a specialty technician. [00:17:24] - Industry connections and the ASOG Mastermind gave him tools, direction and accountability as a new business owner. [00:20:23] - Investing in a lift transformed his efficiency and profitability, validating strategic equipment purchases. [00:24:18] - Seth explains how building SOPs allows future growth and reduces dependency on him as the sole decision maker. [00:26:17] - His focus on Euro diesel SUVs attracts distant customers and sets his shop apart with niche expertise. [00:38:26] - He stresses requiring deposits after costly lessons with oversized jobs that drained time and resources. [00:45:02] - Moving to a four-day workweek improved revenue, reduced stress and strengthened his family life.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello friends, this is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Seth. He is with Anchor Motorworks out of Missouri, right? Seth Lancaster: Yes. So we are in Laurie, Missouri. The address is Grab voice mills, but you know, it's politics there. Jimmy Lea: Well, and I wonder because I saw your YouTube video, you talk about two 17. South Main Street. I wonder if you were to tell people it was two 17 North Main Street, Laurie, if they would actually come to you and grab voice mills. Seth Lancaster: So yeah, so it's two. Our ours is North Main Street and then there's a South Main Street. Seth Lancaster: Yeah, just a quarter mile down the road. So that's throw some fun in there. This shop has been closed for about five years, the building I'm in, and so. It hasn't been needed for looking up on Google, and Google knows that. And so thanks that everyone's going to the other places. Jimmy Lea: There you go. So you've gotta get a sign out front and get a picture of that sign and send it over to Google so they know you are the real deal. Seth Lancaster: Absolutely. That's in the books for hopefully this week. Jimmy Lea: Ooh, congrats. Oh, that's awesome. So what are you doing? What is, what kind of, are you doing a temporary sign or is this a. Permanent fixture. Seth Lancaster: So this one's gonna be a temporary temporary permanent. It's one that's gonna go up in above the front doors of the office. Seth Lancaster: It's a two foot by 12 foot sign. And then we have another big sign that is there from the previous owners and still says the other business. So that gets to be quite confusing and interesting, but. Jimmy Lea: Can you cover up that other sign? Is it a street sign? Seth Lancaster: Yes. Yes. So that's gonna be covered up. Seth Lancaster: It's gonna Jimmy Lea: cover with a vinyl banner or something like that. Seth Lancaster: Yep. That's in the process. Jimmy Lea: Dude, that's awesome. Congrats. Congrats. And for those who are listening here, this is. Take number two for Seth and I, we had a fabulous discussion here last week, to which I forgot to push the stupid record button, but we're back for take two. Jimmy Lea: Oh. And when Seth and I were talking last week about his Facebook page and his website and a couple of things, I gave him some advice to say, Hey, Seth you gotta look at these couple of things. And one was his hero picture. You wanna show your shop in the parking lot as full. Seth Lancaster: And is very full. Jimmy Lea: And is very full. And to his credit, Seth went out immediately, took a picture and loaded it in on the Facebook. I saw, first of all, yes, but website. I haven't got it on my website yet. No. There's something on your website. I saw it. Yeah. No, I did. I did. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. I forget what I do sometimes. Jimmy Lea: Well, and that's the one that we want to cut out the gravel, 'cause I think gravel's about half your picture. Jimmy Lea: Oh yes. So cut out. Cut out the gravel. Tighten in on that left side a little bit. Yes, because it's all about the cars and that's what we want to see is all those beautiful European cars. Seth Lancaster: So that's what we do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. European cars. European cars and I saw that on it was very obvious on your website that those are the cars you're working on because the, it was all Euro cars, so yes. Jimmy Lea: That was very cool that you did that. Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Welcome to our podcast, Seth. Glad to hear we are here for round two. How about that, huh? Seth Lancaster: Oh, yeah. We had a good conversation. I wish you guys could hear it. Could have heard it. Jimmy Lea: Well, I wish they would've heared it too, Jimmy Lea: Seth. This is such an awesome industry. I love that we are in this automotive aftermarket industry. You have an absolutely fascinating story going all the way back even into Africa. You were in Africa for a while. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Let's go back What? Rewind the clock for us. How did you get into the automotive industry? Seth Lancaster: So. It started out with a kitchen scale on my mom's bed, taking things apart. I loved doing that. At about the age of seven, my dad gave me a carburetor to take apart. And what it was one he was replacing and didn't have any need for it. And he gave it to me to have fun with and yeah. So how Jimmy Lea: many times did you take it apart and put it back together? Seth Lancaster: I took it apart. That was it. And all put it back together. Same with not that day, the kitchen scale. Same with everything else until several years later. My mom used to joke with me that I would I learned how to take things apart. And then now I finally learned to put things back together, so, oh my gosh. Seth Lancaster: That's hilarious. That's that's how it goes. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And to that point, with my wife, I, every once in a while I, she'll have a an appliance and the appliance will break and I'll buy another one to replace it. But in the meantime, I wanna take this one apart. Yeah, see if I can fix it. 'cause if I can fix it, hey, that's pretty cool. Jimmy Lea: I haven't been able to fix many here recently, so, Jimmy Lea: so Jimmy Lea: That's where start. But I do get to take 'em apart. I love taking 'em apart to see what makes it work. Seth Lancaster: Oh Jimmy Lea: yeah. And that's, I think, where your mind was going to. Seth Lancaster: That was what I did. And so I used to help my dad just, you know, he really. Seth Lancaster: He didn't enjoy working on cars, but he knew how to do it and he did it. Because paying a shop was expensive. He really taught me a whole lot though of how to maintain, how to take care of how to repair cars. I remember the first time I helped him replace an engine on a car, and so that was kind of where it started. Jimmy Lea: Wait. Hold on a second. Is dad working out of the garage? Like he's on the driveway replacing an engine Seth Lancaster: shade tree. Jimmy Lea: At home. At home, yes. Is this his side gig? Is this his main gig? Is this how he's making money for the Seth Lancaster: family? Just his own cars. Jimmy Lea: Just his own car. So dude just decided to pull an engine, got a cherry picker? Jimmy Lea: Yes. Picked out the engine. Put in a new one. Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Wow, that's a school of hard knocks right there. Right. So you're helping pops in the driveway, replace an engine. Are you seven years old? Are you 12 years old? So Seth Lancaster: that was, I guess I was about eight when I helped him replace the engine. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And is that when you learned how to hold the flashlight? Right. Seth Lancaster: I don't think I, I don't think I ever learned how to do that. Right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that, oh, that's too funny, man. That's awesome. I don't think we ever learned how to hold a flashlight. Exactly right. But we try. Seth Lancaster: I hold it for myself and that's it. Seth Lancaster: So, so this is Jimmy Lea: the, there you go. There you go. And that's the start of your automotive introduction. That was the start of it. So you're swapping engines at eight years old with dad. Seth Lancaster: Yes. So that really got me started in the love of mechanics, the love of fixing things. At the age of about five or six, my dream was to become a mechanic. Seth Lancaster: And so a lot of people talk about, you know, oh, what you dreamed of being when you were five. You know, hardly anyone ever becomes that. And here I am I'm living my dream. So through the years I worked construction many different times and learned how to do it, didn't enjoy it. I worked on my own cars. Seth Lancaster: When I would, when I turned 16 my dad had a truck with a bad engine and he said, you can have it if you can fix it. So. I swapped an engine in it and rebuilt that engine and all that stuff that was at, Jimmy Lea: oh, okay. Well, hold on a second. There's a difference between swapping an engine and you fixed the engine. Seth Lancaster: Yes. Jimmy Lea: You fixed the engine. Seth Lancaster: Yeah, so I swapped, well, I swapped a diesel engine into a truck that was a gas, it was a Mazda pickup, and I put a Mitsubishi diesel into it. Then ended up having to rebuild that engine. So I just dove in and did it. Jimmy Lea: Dude, that's amazing. And to, to your point, I've always wanted to take a Ford Explorer and put a little four four cylinder diesel engine in it. Jimmy Lea: I always thought that would be so cool. Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: And you did it. Oh my God, Seth Lancaster: I did it. I did it. And I did it a couple other times on different other vehicles as well. It was just kind of a hobby of mine. Jimmy Lea: Wow. All right. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. So then through the years I never had a job doing mechanics partly because most mechanic shops wanted actual education Jimmy Lea: certifications and Seth Lancaster: not just, you know, learning yourself and doing it yourself. Seth Lancaster: So then in 2013. 2012. I moved overseas to Africa and became a teacher teaching English as a second language there. I also took care of the missions. So I, as a missionary there, I took care of all their cars did all the repairs on them, and got to observe the. How they do it in Africa. Seth Lancaster: They would rebuild stuff. It was kind of the, you can't get it, so you have to fix it. So they would rebuild things that we would just throw away. So that was, and Jimmy Lea: rebuild things. I mean, this is like the thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. You're rebuilding starters and alternators and starters Seth Lancaster: alternators. Seth Lancaster: Really everything but. Jimmy Lea: Did you ever work on them? Old cars that had the generators on 'em instead of an alternator? Seth Lancaster: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Would you, so did you rewire, did you learn to rewire in Africa? Seth Lancaster: I didn't learn to, I just observed there, and then when I moved back or got kicked out whoa. Whoa. What? Seth Lancaster: The government of Mozambique, the country I was at in was doing some stuff that weren't, that wasn't quite honest. And they were trying to hide it from the US and the un And so any Americans that were there, they would, they were highly suspicious that they were spies. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. So we Seth Lancaster: got investigated as spies and, Jimmy Lea: thanksgiving Day. As missionaries. As missionaries. I mean, gosh, that's a good cover for a spy too, I guess. Yes. But anyways, no I can Seth Lancaster: understand from their side, like we had no financial reason to be there, you know? And so for them, it's like these people who are here, who aren't here to make money, where are they getting their money from kind of thing. Seth Lancaster: And why are they here? I think they're here to. See what we're doing wrong. And so Thanksgiving day 2015, we got a call from immigration and they said, you have 10 days to leave the country. Yeah, that was fun. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. I mean, that ticket can't be cheap 10 days. Seth Lancaster: No. And long story, it, we ended up being there another 30 days. Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. Okay. Seth Lancaster: Because we asked them, we told 'em, Hey, 10 days is too short. Can we extend that? And the immigration head of that area said, we'll let you know. Jimmy Lea: 10 days Seth Lancaster: later, they still hadn't let us know. 30 days later, they still hadn't let us know, but we had bought our tickets. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Seth Lancaster: wow. And so, yeah, that was fun. Seth Lancaster: I got to experience how things are run in other countries and. Get all that experience. It's very interesting. Jimmy Lea: Very cool. So you came back from being a missionary Yes. Back to the United States. What? And then did you try and go find a shop that Rewinds starters alternators. Seth Lancaster: So, so that was. When I was when we knew that we were leaving I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? Seth Lancaster: What? And there was a couple different skills that I wanted to do. I wanted to learn how to rebuild starters and alternators because I had watched it being done and I wanted to be able to do that. And then I wanted to become a diesel mechanic and oh, I wanted to become a firefighter. So those are like three of the things that, oh, and I wanted to get married, so I wasn't at that point. Seth Lancaster: So anyway, I came back and yes, I became all four of those. I got married. I learned how to rebuild starters and alternators. Became a diesel mechanic and became a firefighter. Jimmy Lea: So dude, congratulations. That's four ticks and four boxes. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. So when I came back, I applied to add a diesel shop. Seth Lancaster: But they really didn't, you know, they didn't hire me and I found out later on it was because they thought that I was planning to leave again and they didn't want somebody who was part-time. But so I went and I worked at a starter and a alternated rebuilding shop. Which I really loved that I pretty quickly passed up the guy who was running it in knowledge and ability and really enjoyed doing it. Seth Lancaster: So then I guess about after a year of doing that, then I was talking with a guy who worked at the shop I had applied at and he said, yeah, we're needing a new guy and. So I went back, you raised your hand and said, Hey, send me and coach, like, hey. And he said, well, I thought you were getting ready to head back out somewhere. Seth Lancaster: I said, no I'm staying here. Says, well come in. So I went in, had an interview and got hired and that was really a very big blessing. Melvin Garber at Garber Diesel service. If he listens to that. You're a great boss. Jimmy Lea: Hey, congrats Melvin. That's freaking awesome. Seth Lancaster: How about that? Seth Lancaster: Shout out from Seth. So he's part of Auca. He was the one who got me started. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Seth Lancaster: In moca Jimmy Lea: Midwest Auto Care Alliance. Got Seth Lancaster: a little, that Midwest Auto Care Alliance. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: With Sherry Hamilton. She's awesome. Seth Lancaster: She brought us out to division. Paid for all the techs to go to Vision and to get the training that we needed. Seth Lancaster: Nice. All that kind of stuff. I was there for I think six or seven years, something like that. I don't know. Time flies. Jimmy Lea: Yes, it does. Seth Lancaster: And that was really the biggest growing point of. Learning mechanics and all that eventually. But Jimmy Lea: You were a diesel specialist really and truly. Jimmy Lea: You, you were, yes. Every diesel class, you probably took every single D class twice Seth Lancaster: Pretty close. I took a lot of the, you know, a lot of the diesel classes at vision and learned learned a lot of that and learned to enjoy electrical diagnostics. Oh, nice. That took some of the. Seth Lancaster: Picoscope classes and just realize that there is so much more to mechanics and just changing parts. I love it. So then all this time I buy and own German cars. Diesel, German diesel cars. So the Volkswagen Diesels Audi diesel and that kind of stuff. And those were my cars and found out nobody else likes to work on them. Seth Lancaster: Oh, but you do. But I do. So I'm also on the side. I was rebuilding starters and alternators. So I guess in the end of 2023, I found a building that was going up for lease. I'd kind of think, been thinking about. Going out on my own. I found a building that was going up for lease for a pretty reasonable price and decided to make the jump. Seth Lancaster: And it was not easy, but it was also just a great learning experience. And then there were several guys who were. There for me who, who really helped. I'm gonna give a shout out to Elijah McMillan. Jimmy Lea: Oh, love Elijah. He's the dude, man. Oh, he Seth Lancaster: is. He messaged me and he's like, Hey, here's some resources for you. Seth Lancaster: Here's the Changing the Industry podcast. Here's all these, listen to these podcasts. Here's these groups. Get part of these groups and really invested in me. With a lot of knowledge and told me to get Tech, tech metric and really was a big help there. Seth Lancaster: So fairly soon on in, after I started is when I got you know, I got in touch. Well, Elijah got in touch with me. We kind of seen each other in some Facebook groups. Jimmy Lea: Facebook groups. So did you meet up at Vision or was it all via Facebook? Seth Lancaster: It was all via Facebook. Oh, wow. So we had both been at Vision, but I'd never met him there. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Seth Lancaster: And so it was through a Volkswagen Diesel Facebook group. I Jimmy Lea: love it. Seth Lancaster: And so we got to talk and became friends and we'd never actually met. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Seth Lancaster: So we I met him. In person the first time. I guess it was last Vision. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Seth Lancaster: So he also got me involved in the ASOG Mastermind group. Nice. Has been, so getting involved in Auca and all that was a really big step and a very big help. Seth Lancaster: And then the mastermind group was just the whole link. Take it to the next level thing. Love Jimmy Lea: it. Yeah. And you know, with that asog group, they don't let vendors in there at all. Yep. I've tried to get in it and nope. Can't, I don't own a shop, so I'm out. I'm sorry. It's okay. I got a lot other things I need to be doing, but that's the beauty of that Asog group. Jimmy Lea: Is It is just shop owners. Yes. And so you guys have a phenomenal mastermind group there, so that's wonderful. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. So that's been a, it's been a, just an amazing experience and so much help. And those guys will tell you things that are hard Yeah. To push you forward. One example was, my shop is too small and. Seth Lancaster: I didn't have any lift when I joined. I had no lift. Oh. So I was just doing everything with Jack and Jack stands and you know, and creep kinda sketchy stuff. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You were on creepers? Seth Lancaster: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. It was, Seth Lancaster: you know, it worked. Jimmy Lea: It worked, Seth Lancaster: but it wasn't ideal. Correct. So the one day I was talking with Adam Wrath in the part of the mastermind group, and he said, why don't you have a lift? Seth Lancaster: You know, here's why. And this building really isn't ideal for a lift. The floor isn't quite level and it's like, if you think about it, the cost of a lift, you will make more than the cost of the lift just in the increase in efficiency. So, Jimmy Lea: so true. So true, dude. Okay. Seth Lancaster: I went on marketplace and found one. Seth Lancaster: Thank you, Adam. I went in Marketplace and found a brand new lift that a guy was selling. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Seth Lancaster: And put it in. And it was absolutely true that week. That week it paid for itself two or three times. Jimmy Lea: Shut up. Are you serious? Seth Lancaster: I am serious in the increase in ability to get things done. Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's rad. Seth Lancaster: And so Jimmy Lea: You're in this small two bay, correct? Yes. Okay. Keep going. Seth Lancaster: So that, that really just gave me the ability to move to where I'm at now. I'm now in a five Bay facility. I have two techs and that's, and you're Jimmy Lea: the service advisor Seth Lancaster: Well. I've got a lot of hats. Jimmy Lea: Uhhuh. Yeah, you are. So you're the service advisor, the shop foreman, the parts ordering, the parts returns, the bookkeeper, the shop owner, as well as the tech and Yeah, I was gonna add you're the Seth Lancaster: diagnostician, the di yeah. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. So, Jimmy Lea: dude, that's awesome. And you know, there's pe I've seen it said here quite recently that. That there are coaching companies out there that are saying, oh no, you just need to work on your business. I think there's a time and a season for everything. There's a time and a season where you have to wear multiple hats. Jimmy Lea: You, you can't afford to be able to hire somebody to do all the things that you have to do at this time. There will come a time where you are able to have an advisor and that advisor, and you probably are gonna add a third technician. Yes. To have three full-time technicians and then you become the gopher. Seth Lancaster: Yep. That's kind of, that's kind of the goal. So that kind of brings over, brings me over to what are my, you know, what my goals are. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Seth Lancaster: So I've been in this five bay shop for two, three weeks. I dunno, time flies. I guess the first, the 1st of November was when I moved in. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. It was November 1st. Jimmy Lea: It's the 25th year. Year three and a half weeks, man. Yeah. Oh, congrats. Okay. It was going on a month. Seth Lancaster: Going on a month. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Seth Lancaster: And so Seth Lancaster: my eventual goal is to be able to set in motion, set in place, you know, people who can be here and run the place while I'm gone. That way like. If I don't if I have something else, the shop keeps, you know, Jimmy Lea: keeps going, staying Seth Lancaster: open. Sure. There's somebody there. Stuff's getting done right now as an owner, if I'm not there, it's closed. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and work on your SOPs. Standard operating procedures, document everything. How you open the shop, how you close the shop, what to do if this breaks, what to do if that breaks even to the simplest and easiest lube oil filter. Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Document everything so that when you're not there, the technicians don't have to guess. Jimmy Lea: They know that there's a process and a procedure for everything. Seth Lancaster: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Okay, cool. Seth Lancaster: Good for you. I started working on that. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Yes. Oh, and bro it will never, ever be done. This is a living document. That you will continuously add to and develop and bring on more. In fact, I just did a webinar or a podcast with a gentleman that was developing his, and he's like 65 different SOPs into it. Jimmy Lea: Uhhuh says to his team, he says, Hey, look, listen guys you guys are my betas. I'm testing this out on you guys. I need to know, does this make sense? Does it work? Is it written right? Yes. And what can we do to improve it? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And I tell you, the beauty of what he's doing is getting not just the buy-in of his group, his technicians and his shop. Jimmy Lea: It's becoming their company, their culture, the way that they do business. So even though it's on you to do it, you can enlist all of your technicians to help out as well? Yes. Do. That's awesome. Oh yeah. That's awesome. So you're in the five bay now? Yes. Been there for three or four weeks. Yes. Been there since the beginning of November, 2025. Jimmy Lea: And you already have a full parking lot, so all Yes, very full. So are you just, are you working on all euros or just the diesel, euros. All euros. Seth Lancaster: I kind of specialize in the diesel euros but. I do all of them. So whether it's Volkswagen, Audi Porsche, Mercedes, BMW Jimmy Lea: which car is your favorite to work on? Seth Lancaster: I would say that would be the well, it's the family of cars, so the Porsche, cayenne Volkswagen, Tourig and Audi Q seven. So those are kind of the same, like all three. The Jimmy Lea: same look, make like the same Seth Lancaster: Yeah. They're basically the same car. Just perfect. Different package, Jimmy Lea: different badges on 'em. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. So I really enjoy working on those and so guys will come from quite a ways to have me work on theirs. Wow, congrats. Because not many people, Seth Lancaster: The furthest I've had a guy come was from from Los Angeles, California. Jimmy Lea: From California to Missouri? Seth Lancaster: Yes. And with him, I'll say he was a retired guy. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Seth Lancaster: And the Audi dealer, ne near him, didn't really wanna work on it. And he had them do work before and they couldn't figure it out. Seth Lancaster: And so he drove from there. Into, you know, here to Missouri, got an Airbnb in a rental car and just, you know, had fun, chilled and hang, hung out at the lake. Jimmy Lea: Dude just hung out until you fixed his car. Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Oh, and by the way, how did he drive it? It must not have had drivability issues. Seth Lancaster: Yeah, so it, it had a coolant leak and it wasn't a severe coolant leak. Seth Lancaster: Which it's a very common issue on them. They start to leak. Coolant from the valley area and for the first while, it'll be about a quart every 5,000 miles. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Seth Lancaster: And then eventually it'll get worse and cause more problems, but, Jimmy Lea: okay. So what's the fix, Seth? How do you, what do you Seth Lancaster: do? Seth Lancaster: Replace everything. Jimmy Lea: Oh, shut up. Are you serious? You have to replace Seth Lancaster: Not necessarily. So there's some plastic. Plastic coolant, fla, flanges that whoever thought plastic should go in the cooling system, I don't know, heat. Or they shouldn't. I don't know. I have opinions about that. They Jimmy Lea: shouldn't be in the design work. Jimmy Lea: Have you seen the radiators with the sidewalls that are plastic? Yep. What, who thought of this as a good idea? That's cool. All the plastics, like, so anyway, so you read, are you gonna redesign these plastic bits and pieces and make it a metal? Seth Lancaster: Yes. So I have a guy who makes metal ones. Seth Lancaster: And so it's much better. Oh dude, that's awesome. Metal pieces in there and otherwise, you know, then there's, I'm replacing the oil cooler and the several flanges, several hoses. There's, you know. And the biggest thing is just cleaning out all of the mess that is inside, inside there. So, ah, I've done a lot of them. Seth Lancaster: It, Jimmy Lea: Seth, is it because of all the plastic bits and pieces that it just clogs up that coolant? Seth Lancaster: Yeah, so that's part of it. Oh damn. Coolant has to be changed every once in a while and flushed. A lot of people don't do that as well, Jimmy Lea: so, yeah. No, it, yeah. That, it's unfortunate. They think, well, it drives. Jimmy Lea: Yep, Seth Lancaster: yep. Jimmy Lea: It's working, so I can still go. Seth Lancaster: Right. Oh my Jimmy Lea: gosh. Wow. Seth Lancaster: That's how it goes. Jimmy Lea: So you're into the five A now. What is the future, Seth? Where are you, what's your three year, five year tenure? What does that look like for you? Seth Lancaster: Yeah, so the three year I think would be. I wanna get it set up so that I don't have to be here. Seth Lancaster: So that if I'm working on cars, it's just because I want to. Yeah. Get a team set up, get a team, you know, in place to be able to manage and run the business. I wanna still be here, but I wanna be here because I wanna be here. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Seth Lancaster: I have a wife. She has some health issues and. So I, I wanna be able to be there for her and be there for my kids as they're growing up and that kind of stuff. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. Yeah. 'cause the kids are gonna start having performances and sporting events and outings and concerts and, oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, dude. You name it. And if they get onto any touring. Sports teams, which my son did. We were a touring baseball team. There were quite a few years that every weekend was a different city, a different town, a different place, and hopefully we had family in the nearby location. Jimmy Lea: 'cause that's a lot of hotels. It gets very expensive very quickly. Seth Lancaster: Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: Well good for you. And my Seth Lancaster: wife wants horses, so. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's more expensive than kids Seth Lancaster: your wife wants. So horses, I think it's more expensive than cars as well. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Get her a good motorcycle. And there Seth Lancaster: you Jimmy Lea: go. There you go. You don't have to. Jimmy Lea: I don't know. I'm a Seth Lancaster: firefighter. I see the, I see what happens to motorcycles. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Get her a quad or a side by side. Get a razor maybe. Seth Lancaster: There you go. There you go. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You don't have to feed it as much. Right. And you don't have to shovel up after it either. Yeah. My mother had horses up her whole entire life, but that was a different time where horses were much more of a a very large pet rather than. Jimmy Lea: A human and a half. Seth Lancaster: Yes. Yep. Jimmy Lea: What kind of horses does she like? Seth Lancaster: Expensive ones. Jimmy Lea: Ah, so the Arabians. Seth Lancaster: So really she likes the like the ones is not necessarily the breed, Seth Lancaster: The confirmation's very much about the confirmation and. How they behave and how their stature is. And a lot of times those are the most expensive ones. Seth Lancaster: So, but quarter horses in Tennessee Walkers. But she likes the really nice ones. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Grandpa had quarter horses here in southern Utah for quite a while as well. My dad got a painted a Pinto. Okay. Dad bought a Pinto and it threw him, he had to get right back up on that horse. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. I had that happen. Seth Lancaster: I had one land on top of me. Jimmy Lea: Ooh, that's, that, Seth Lancaster: that Jimmy Lea: can Seth Lancaster: hurt it. It did it, it took me really until the last the last couple years to actually want to ride horses and be fine with it. A lot of it is I've been building up my strength as far as physically, and I found that really helps a lot when you're riding horses because, you know, you feel more in control when you have the ability to, you know, to move and to have the core strength and everything. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. And being on top of a horse is not like riding a motorcycle. It's like two times a motorcycle. You are way up there. Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: At least it feels like it. Seth Lancaster: Yep. So I lost control of one. It ran off and ended up tripping and flipping over on top of me. And it was a miracle that I didn't die. Seth Lancaster: It was I think it wasn't God's time for me to die, but Jimmy Lea: yeah. God angels looking out for you, brother. Seth Lancaster: It landed on top of me and I felt like an old man for a long time. 15 when that happened. So, Jimmy Lea: dang dude. Wow. Yeah. You were young. That was a, that's a long time ago. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And you write, are you calling me Seth Lancaster: old now? Jimmy Lea: So no, ri riding horses is a very physically demanding. It is. It is hobby and you've got to have that core strength because if you are not in control, the horse will take advantage. Oh yeah, that's for sure. Oh, that's good. Well, that'd be a great hobby for you in the future as well. That's phenomenal. Jimmy Lea: Are you going to expand? Do you want to have a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth location or, I don't think I Seth Lancaster: wanna have a, another location. I think my eventual goal is going to be to have a bigger location of my own. Jimmy Lea: So like a eight Bay, 10 Bay, 12 Bay single location, something like that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Optimize it. You're doing five, that one, five, 6 million a year. Seth Lancaster: I'll probably have it built and I wanna own that that way it's, you know, that way I can decide how I want it and, you know, have it set up like that. Jimmy Lea: Dude, congrats man. That's gonna be awesome. That's gonna be awesome. It will. So this next year, are you headed out to Vision? Seth Lancaster: Yes. Jimmy Lea: You taking the shop? Yes. Okay. We gotta make sure we connect. Say hello. I will. That'll be awesome. Vision any other trade shows, conferences on your horizon that you're looking at? Seth Lancaster: There's plenty on the horizon. I'll see how close the horizon gets to me. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. See if we can afford the horizon. Seth Lancaster: Right. No, it's the biggest thing, the most difficult thing is just the time of going out there. And with the stage that my kids are at right now, it's hard on them when I leave, you know, it's hard on them, on in, on my wife when I'm gone for very long. They're also at the point where they don't really enjoy the waiting around and, you know, the, you know, not having something to do. Seth Lancaster: You know, Jimmy Lea: they don't enjoy the idle time. Seth Lancaster: And my wife hasn't been feeling well enough, at least in the past, to be able to go out and, you know, go to the park and that kind of stuff with them. So, Jimmy Lea: ah, that's tough. That's tough. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. It's tough, but Jimmy Lea: well bring them back. All the tchotchkes from the vision trade show, the pens, the markers the squeezy balls. Jimmy Lea: The Oh yeah. The fidget spinners, the guitar picks. Bring back one of each for each of the kids. Seth Lancaster: Oh, yeah. They enjoy that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That makes it a little bit more enjoyable. I remember my dad way back in the day, he built gas stations in Las Vegas. I think he probably at one point had built half of all the lo all the gas stations in Vegas. Seth Lancaster: Really? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And he would go to these trade shows in Dallas, Texas. He just loved Dallas, Texas, Uhhuh. And when he would come back home, he would always have all the pens and the hot wheels and the. The cars and all these things that he would give to us as kids. And it was like, okay, dad. Yeah. You can go to car. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. This is cool. Okay. Oh, dice. Dice was a good thing way back in the day playing cars, that they were playing cards that would have different gas fuel trucks on 'em and things like that. I mean, just way back in the day it was a lot of fun, man. It was really, Seth Lancaster: no, I bet those, I bet some of those have some value to 'em now. Jimmy Lea: Well, if we hadn't played 'em to death, they probably would. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. Yep. That's kind of how it goes. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yep. And that's the beauty of it. We had fun with our toys and we play with our toys rather than having a, an altar. Yes. Yeah. So, Seth, you've been through a lot over the last two years. Jimmy Lea: Two years, right? Yes. Two years. You've been out on your own. Just about, there's a lot of learning that has happened, a lot of speed bumps that you've gone over, mountains you've climbed. If you were to start your business today, what advice would you give yourself today as you're starting your business? Seth Lancaster: Get a network of guys. So like a, whether it's a mastermind group or other business owners that are going to lift you up and help you out. And then I think I said it, I said a different thing last time, but the other thing that I would've started off with first is get deposits on jobs. Jimmy Lea: Oh, big jobs. If it's over big jobs, a certain amount you're getting in half up front. Seth Lancaster: Yep. And I didn't do that to start with, and that caused so much stress in my life. Jimmy Lea: Oh, amen. Yeah. That bites you in the butt, doesn't it? Seth Lancaster: Yep. Jimmy Lea: How many times did you have to do that before you learned your lesson? Seth Lancaster: I don't remember. Jimmy Lea: More than one. Right. No, really Seth Lancaster: It was more than one. Jimmy Lea: It was more than one. So mine I learned a $17,000 lesson, and here's the lesson I share with you. You have to get it in writing. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jimmy Lea: You have to get it in writing. I had a $17,000 deposit down on buying a. An apartment complex. It was like a eight or nine unit apartment complex. Jimmy Lea: Wow. And it was just taking me a minute to get the funding put together to be able to get it done. Well, we had a 90 day window, came to the end of 90 days, and I was like, oh my gosh, you guys. No, look, I'm almost there. I'm almost there. I'm almost there. And the verbal and no. You're okay. Jimmy Lea: Take another, you know, take another week. Take another two weeks. Yeah. No we're good. Well, I came back three weeks later and I said, all right, I've got everything. We're all lined up. And they're like, oh, no, you're done. We took your deposit. Thank you very much. If you want to put in another deposit and do it again, we're ready to go. Seth Lancaster: Oh, no. Jimmy Lea: And I was like, oh, shut up. Yeah. That was a very hard lesson to learn, but a good lesson to, to learn that it has to be in writing. If it's not in writing. Yes. It didn't happen. Yes. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So that's my $17,000 lesson. I'm sure you've got your own lessons of more than thousands of dollars that you had to learn on. Seth Lancaster: Yeah, I think the biggest was just the whole stress, you know? And don't take on jobs that are bigger than what you can do. I thankfully. Today got rid of one. That had been one of those lessons. Ooh. Jimmy Lea: Ended up never ending story. Seth Lancaster: I ended up buying it from the customer, buying the car from the customer. Jimmy Lea: Ooh. Seth Lancaster: And I sold it this morning, finally. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. Seth Lancaster: And it was every time I looked at it. At first, it was like, I don't even wanna see the thing. I don't wanna like, I don't wanna have, that's ptsd, TSD. Jimmy Lea: Yes. And then Seth Lancaster: In the last week, I started realizing, no, this is lessons don't do that. Seth Lancaster: And so that, that was, you know, one of my, one of my, I guess it was one of my first jobs in the shop and. I didn't have the equipment for it. I didn't have the space, I didn't have the knowledge. Oh. And I learned that the hard way that book times are way off, Seth Lancaster: but Yep, it was a lesson. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Do you know how they get those book times, by the way? Seth Lancaster: So, my understanding is that they have. Somebody do the job a certain amount of times, five times on a new car, and average the amount of times or average the time. Jimmy Lea: Yep. And they're in a pristine environment, in a beautifully kept environment where all the tools are laid out. Jimmy Lea: It's simple and easy, and they just get faster and faster every single time. And Seth Lancaster: all auto shops are like that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Not, no, they're not, they yeah. It's not a fair representation of rust. Yes. Wear and tear of bolts that break off that you've gotta tap and pull. Yeah. It's a fair representation of an actual shop and working on an actual vehicle. Jimmy Lea: And those book times, they should be updated and updated as the car gets older. Those times should be, oh, yeah, out. We need to add, so to protect yourself, add in. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. I have the Jimmy Lea: 15% labor matrix, Seth Lancaster: 20% with the multiplier. Jimmy Lea: Good. Seth Lancaster: And it definitely has helped. Well, with the mastermind group, we're actually looking at. Seth Lancaster: At our numbers and comparing and seeing, you know, and that has been a very good thing to do, just to have and to see like, what did I do this week? Seth Lancaster: Why are my nu, why are my numbers terrible? Okay, let me look at that and then learn from that. And next week, let's do it better. Jimmy Lea: Next, next week we'll make better choices. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. And so it's kind of been a, it's kind of been a really good thing. To actually just watch the numbers and it's hard as a new business owner, like everything is pressing and so you don't get, you know, you don't do the things that you should and you don't pay attention to the numbers and you just keep on going. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. And. That whole busy thing, like just keep pushing, keep working harder, and no, that doesn't work. Jimmy Lea: No. Let's put a little mental thought into this. Let's work smarter Seth Lancaster: rather Jimmy Lea: than harder. Seth Lancaster: So part of that is I actually dropped down to 4 10, 4 10 hour days instead of doing five days a week. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Seth Lancaster: I did that while I was still out on my own. And it has really helped actually my. My numbers stayed the same or went up. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. Seth Lancaster: And my, and that was just myself. My stress level went down. My relationship with my wife went up, my relationship with my kids went up. So it was just really an all around win. Seth Lancaster: So that, that would be the other thing I would tell myself is just do four days, four 10 hour days. Because I think a lot of people, as shop owners would also know and agree with this, that it's really hard to just be eight hours at a shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Seth Lancaster: yeah. 'cause it's just one more Jimmy Lea: thing. Oh, always. Always. It's just one more thing. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I almost have it put back together. I al I'm just almost done. 15 minutes. 15 minutes becomes a half hour, 45 minutes. It's an hour. Yep. Just you just blink and Shazam, here's another hour. Yep. Yeah, no, that's so true, man. Seth Lancaster: So that's the other thing I really, that really helped just to be able to, and people are like why are, you know, why are you closed on Fridays? Seth Lancaster: Because I can, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Seth Lancaster: I mean, yeah, they still try to call. They can leave a message. Jimmy Lea: They can leave a message and they can tow it in. They can drop it off. They, do you have a, do you have a key Dropbox? Seth Lancaster: I have a Dropbox in pickup box. Bingo. One of the greatest investments I got. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Seth Lancaster: One of those the, yeah. Seth Lancaster: Whatever brand it is that stainless steel. Yep. Fort Knox type box. Love it. Oh man. It has been a very good investment. Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. That is phenomenal. Because now even with 'cause you're on tech metric, you can Yep. Text the customer. Text the client. They can pay for all the whole entire bill right from their cell phone. Jimmy Lea: So they're done. They paid for it. You're like, oh, thank you very much. Your keys are in box number two. The code is da. Seth Lancaster: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Swing by Anytime it's ready for you. It's here. You pick it up. We're closing. It's yep. Six o'clock we're out. Yep. And the clients let me tell you from my point of view, I love it. Seth Lancaster: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: There was a time period of almost 6, 7, 8 years that I did not go into the shop because I couldn't, I would drop the car off the night before. They would work on it that day if they needed it for another day or two or three, but that's fine. Yeah. But I wasn't coming to get it until after work, and they were long gone. Jimmy Lea: It was dark and I'm picking it up, but yeah. Oh my gosh. What I love love. Key drop boxes and pickup boxes. Those are really cool. Seth Lancaster: Very nice. Yep. Jimmy Lea: Very cool. All right. Cool man. Well, Seth, I look forward to seeing you at Vision for this year and many years into the future. I look forward to seeing your success as well, both professionally and with your family. Congratulations. Seth Lancaster: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: Alright, brother. We'll talk to you soon, man.

175 - "Ask Me Anything" with Cecil & Lucas: Mentorship, Margin, and Marketing That Actually Works December 3, 2025 - 00:46:44 Show Summary: A rapid-fire AMA with Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard cuts straight into the hard stuff shop owners wrestle with daily. They break down how to hire and develop entry-level techs without burning them out, why hourly plus incentive beats flat rate for apprentices, and what a real two-year mentorship pathway looks like. From there, the conversation shifts to car count and marketing, with Cecil pushing owners to stop doing everything themselves and instead build professional, measurable marketing systems. They also get practical about documenting warranty work so the real cost is visible, and why you can’t manage anything you can’t see. The back half drills into pricing, estimates, labor-rate layering, and the danger of trying to compete with consolidators on cheapness. The close highlights Cecil’s “Preferred Customer Program,” a simple loyalty and scheduling system that stabilizes car count and boosts ARO, plus a reminder that fixing the car is only baseline, customer experience and profitability are what keep a shop alive.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast   Guest(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:00:36] – Lucas and Cecil begin by addressing how to hire and structure pay for an entry level technician, emphasizing the need for a real mentorship plan. [00:02:29] – Cecil explains how a two year mentorship program should map out tools, skills, jobs, and weekly reviews to ensure progress. [00:06:11] – They discuss emotional awareness and communication and why technicians must feel heard to stay engaged and productive. [00:08:26] – Cecil outlines why apprentices should never be put on flat rate and breaks down a base pay plus incentive model that actually works. [00:10:40] – They explore productivity problems that come from broken shop processes, not technician ability, and how shops misinterpret low hours. [00:11:54] – Cecil details why owners should not do their own marketing and how professional marketing drastically changes car count. [00:15:56] – Lucas and Cecil walk through correct warranty documentation and tracking so owners can identify patterns, failures, and true cost. [00:20:10] – They explain how to get the most from a new coach by being honest, vulnerable, and open to pushback. [00:24:02] – Cecil shares why GS roles are often misused and how to pay them properly while building training and productivity expectations. [00:38:02] – They revisit pricing, customer experience, and why fixing the car is the minimum expectation rather than the differentiator in today’s market.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/jG1rHqQjhww   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to this AMA from the Institute. My name's Lucas Underwood with the Changing The Industry Podcast, and I am joined today by the one, the only Mr. Cecil Bullard himself. Cecil buddy, how are you? Cecil Bullard: Hey. Hey, brother. I'm great. I'm ready. Let's knock him outta the park. Lucas Underwood: Let's get right into it. Lucas Underwood: We've already got a pile of questions and so I want to jump right in. Let's make sure we get all these questions answered 'cause we've got so many people asking questions right now. And so we're gonna drop these in. And the very first one is Greetings from Wisconsin. We're a small three base shop with two full-time techs that are higher level guys. Lucas Underwood: We're looking to hire an entry-level person to do basic services and hopefully grow from there. I was looking for someone with a little, no experience, but a good attitude. What advice would you give us when it comes to pay structure, expectations, and anything else you can think of now? Cecil, there is a response down below that, and it's kind of all in one, and I think we need to talk about this as well. Lucas Underwood: And they said that we found that hourly pay with incentivized hours on production seems to be a great carrot for the entry level tech. They mentioned that I look to get an atec, but fill our industry is in a time that we have to develop, so we have to get a bench. And so I wanna start a little bit by clarifying that because I think it's an important point. Lucas Underwood: I have been saying, I think for your first technician as a small shop, you should really be looking at hiring the best technician that you can find. And here's why I feel that way, because I tried to do it the other way and what I did is I feel like I did a disservice to our industry. Now that's me. I'm not saying that Chad would do that. Lucas Underwood: I'm not saying that Ed would do that. I'm saying at that point in time. As a business owner, I didn't really have all of my ducks in a row. I didn't really have it together, and I wasn't able to train somebody to do that. And it takes time and it takes energy, and it takes a plan and a program to train them and bring them up. Lucas Underwood: My fear when I say that is that we see so many shop owners that bring a young technician into the bay, they throw 'em in there and say, go do the thing. And then what do we have? We have a disgruntled technician in three, four years because they've not developed, they've not progressed, they've not grown like they thought they should. Lucas Underwood: But I will say I've had a lot of really great entry level technicians who have gone on to be great technicians, and we're really invested, really driven to make this happen. So I think the key is the right person. Cecil, what's your take on it? Cecil Bullard: I would tell you number one it, it is different at the different part parts of your business. Cecil Bullard: If I'm by myself and now I'm gonna hire somebody. I think you're probably better off hiring an AEC at that point in time if you can find them and afford them and all those kind of things. If you're gonna hire a, an apprentice technician or a trainee type technician, you need to have what I would call a mentorship program that probably lasts somewhere around two years where they think about having a list of tools that they need to master, a list of jobs that they need to be able to do a list of equipment that they need to know how to operate which might include your point of sale and their part of the writeup and the coolant flush machine and how to flush brakes out and how to do a brake job. Cecil Bullard: And, you know, just basic stuff. And if you have a and someone needs to be responsible for not just meeting with them to teach them kind of how to do this and to answer their questions, but also to keep them moving. Down the pathway. And that is also a management step. So you can have, you know, I can hand a young tech to my grumpiest, 62-year-old tech who's a master tech, but doesn't have the patience or the temperament to really train somebody. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And go, okay, you teach him. And then all of a sudden, you know, three months later that kid's quitting or we're firing him because he screwed too many things up because he really wasn't being mentored. In our mentorship programs, we recommend that you have weekly meetings with the mentor and the mentee and management and asking questions like, what did you learn this week? Cecil Bullard: Do you feel like you're being held back? Are there jobs that you feel that you need to be taught? You know, and trying to keep a pathway ahead of them so that they know I checked this box off this week, I checked that box off this week. Yep. That helps us understand that, that hey, they now. We've taught 'em how to do certain jobs. Cecil Bullard: In my shops, if you came into my shop and you were a master technician, you still had a min and you still had a sign off sheet. Lucas Underwood: Yes, absolutely. Cecil Bullard: That was, you know, where's the bathroom and how do you clock in and out and, you know, how do you rack a vehicle? I mean, every year we lose two or three guys because a vehicle doesn't get racked correctly and somebody gets killed and Exactly. Lucas Underwood: And when to say something. Right. If the lift's not safe, if something's going on in the shop, if, like, when do you say something and blood. Or blood or fire, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If it isn't blood or fire, then I don't I probably shouldn't say anything. I should use a more formalized hey, we're gonna meet once a week, discuss where you're at et cetera. Cecil Bullard: But if there is the potential for blood or fire then we should be saying something right now. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, so absolutely and you know, Dutch has always been a really close friend of mine and yours as well. And Dutch was in the airline industry. He was a captain in some real big airplanes. Lucas Underwood: And one of the things Dutch said was, is you always had to keep a line of communication open between you and your right seat. They always had to feel comfortable coming to you and saying there's a problem, because they needed to be able to correct you in case you didn't see something that they saw. Lucas Underwood: And that's something that I think that we have to watch, especially if we're putting an older mentor with someone. There has to be some checks and balances in place because we have to make sure they feel confident if that mentor is doing something and they shouldn't be. They need to be able to communicate that. Lucas Underwood: And I hear from a lot of guys that are young and they're put in and they say, I don't know if I'm making progress or not. I'm not, they're not told if I'm doing a good job or not. Cecil Bullard: You know, but that's also like having the feedback loop that is saying, you know, you checked that off. Wow, great. Now you know how to do this job. Cecil Bullard: Now we're gonna work on this job, or Yeah. Hey, you, I, I know today was a tough day, or I know this week was a tough week for you. Right. But you know, next week's gonna be a great week 'cause you're gonna learn this, and this. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: A hundred percent. The other thing you were talking about I have to make sure that whatever they're feeling, and it doesn't matter if it's my ATech or my apprentice tech. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I need them to, I need to pay attention to what they're feeling, whether or not I believe it to be real. Right. Yeah. Because those are the people that are gonna do the work. They're gonna do the work. Right. That are gonna be productive. Hopefully that we'll put money in the bank and make the company run. Cecil Bullard: And so, you know, sometimes you get employees that are having a conversation and they're talking about stuff and you're just like, oh man, that's, there's no way that, you know, we're not as a company, we're not that or whatever. But if that's what they're feeling and that's what they're talking about, we have to be able to address those things and clear the water. Cecil Bullard: Right? Absolutely. And we can't do that a hundred percent. You know? So the other thing would be, you know, having routine communication weekly meetings with your shop. Yes, a hundred percent. Where that keeps owners from piping off on dumb stuff every day. You know, hey, take that to the weekly meeting. You know, if we're not keeping the shop as clean as you'd like, take that to the weekly meeting. Cecil Bullard: We'll discuss it then Don't come in and yell at people and ruin their day for them when they're trying to get work out. And the other thing is I, as an employee, I need a place where I think I can take something that concerns. Yeah, and I believe I'll be heard, right? Yep. And heard doesn't necessarily mean I agree. Lucas Underwood: It just means that I've heard you and listen, here's the thing about this is a lot of folks say, oh, I could mentor someone. I'm gonna tell you, as an owner who's had multiple apprentices and I've not done many of them the justice that I should have. Yeah. But as an owner who's done that, I'm gonna tell you that to mentor them is a lot of work. Lucas Underwood: Right. And if you don't have the bandwidth for that, this is, you're talking about some serious work and some serious management here. Now, ed is a fantastic friend of mine. I really look up to this guy. I mean, he's next level. And so he talks about the pay aspect because that was really the root of the question. Lucas Underwood: And he says, Hey, I believe that a good hourly pay with some incentive. And I do believe that we need to be making sure these guys are paid hourly as they come in. I've seen a lot of shops putting these apprentices on flat rate, and it's like, what are you doing? Are you serious right now? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You can't, it's unbelievable. Cecil Bullard: You're setting 'em up for failure. I mean, exactly. And I don't. For the last say, 10 years, I haven't written any flat rate pay systems. Yeah. Everything is, you know, 60% of your pay should come from showing up. Yeah. In a base, people need to know they've got food and shelter and Yeah. Warmth and all of that. Cecil Bullard: And then 40% is for doing what I want you to do. And in the case of an apprentice person, it would be learning the new thing, you know, making a mistake so that you learn the new thing correctly. Right? Yep. Et cetera. And we can't, that's another thing we cannot, at $125 an hour. Afford to pay these young people to make mistakes in our business. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And afford to have our best technicians take time to help train them and give them the skills transfer the skill sets that our best technicians have. Yeah. We can't do that. At a hundred. I think the last survey was $128 an hour is the average in the industry. Yeah. We need to be much higher because we can't, I can't bring a guy in at $22 an hour and expect him to feel comfortable. Cecil Bullard: Exactly. Or her to feel comfortable and not do anything but live in mom's basement. Right? Yeah, a hundred percent. Lucas Underwood: And that's kind of what you're expecting when you do that, right? You may not say it, but that's what your, that's your end result. Let's move on to the next question here. Cliff K says, I'd like to find a way to get more cars and more folks in. Lucas Underwood: They really want to expand. They wanna bring in this third technician. I'm gonna tell you from my experiences, I grew fairly slowly for a number of years, and I kept hitting this plateau and I never could figure out what it was. A lot of my plateau was I was afraid to bring in that third person, right? Lucas Underwood: Because I was running two for the longest time and I kept saying, I don't quite have enough work to get them to 40 hours a week. And I've realized that until I have them there and they can actually do something, I wasn't even scheduling. The potential for that work. And so I never could get it there until I just said, Hey, I'm gonna bite the bullet and I'm gonna go for it. Lucas Underwood: So I think that part of that is, is we have to kind of bite the bullet. Now, I'm not saying if your guys are turning six hours a piece right now, that's not time to bring somebody else in, maximize what you have right now. Well, Cecil Bullard: But it could be because Yeah, my people might be turning six hours a week because my shop processes are screwed up. Cecil Bullard: It's not, I mean, I might be booked out three weeks and I still have guys doing five, six hours a day. Yeah. 'cause we can't get our dispatch. Right. And we're not getting our parts here on time, and we're not getting enough time for the jobs that we're doing. Exactly. Yes, they have to do a bunch of other crap because our shop isn't set up correctly. Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. Yesterday I was having a conversation with somebody and it's a brand new person, or it was a person looking at us and you know, I was saying, you know, you, you have really bad productivity and, he goes, well, yeah, but it's not the tax fault. I said, yeah, no, most of the time it's not the tax fault. Cecil Bullard: Right. They're the one doing that, not saying they call Speaker 4: for Cecil Bullard: it. Yeah. I'm saying if we could improve our productivity, then our labor margins go up our overall gross profit margins goes up and our profits in the shop go up. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And then I can pay people more money. So Yeah. I I think pay-wise yeah. Cecil Bullard: And we're talking about marketing, remember brain surgery like nine months ago. That's it. That's it. Lucas Underwood: Cecil's often in Wonderland over here. So there are keeping, there are, Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Well, A DHD too, so. Wow. That's it. Marketing you know, I'm not a big fan of direct mail. I don't, I think the ROI is not. Cecil Bullard: Real great. I think that a lot of that is discounting, and I'm not a discount fan. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I need to have a good website that's done by somebody that understands Google and what Google wants. And now AI and what a OI wants, I need to have seo, OSEM, I need to have social media you know, there are I should be booking the customer's next appointment. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I should have a referral program. I should be working in the local community. I should be involved with the local chamber of commerce, the rotary, the local BNI groups. I should be a leader in some of those things. I think that the successful businesses have successful and marketing plans. Cecil Bullard: And then the other thing I need to understand about marketing, not everything I'm gonna do is gonna work. Yes. And that's it's just part of the game. Lucas Underwood: You know what, there's a lot of people listening, and I know because I too am a shop owner and they're saying, but Cecil. Where am I gonna get the time to do all this? Lucas Underwood: And let me tell you something. Cecil Bullard: Well, they can't they shouldn't. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. You're not qualified. Lucas Underwood: Alright. A hundred percent. And even beyond qualified, right? Yeah. It's like, where is your value? Because my value, right? Like, you know this, if I'm the one running the shop, we can easily bang out $200,000 or more every single month with four technicians because I just know how it flows. Lucas Underwood: And what does that mean? That means that's where my value's at in this business. That's where I need to focus my energy. I need to be paying someone who is that efficient, that productive, and that much of a master at doing the marketing for me, because it's a waste of money, it's a waste of energy for me to be doing it myself. Lucas Underwood: That's ridiculous. We and I have to learn a new skill. There's no reason to learn that new skill. Find somebody who knows what they're doing. Cecil Bullard: We're we are, do it yourselfers. I mean, you know, if I've got plumbing at the house or electric at the house or drywall or whatever, I'm like, oh, I can do that, but is that my best? Cecil Bullard: Is that my best spent time? And I don't know how many people we, you know, when we get a new client, we bring 'em in and one of the first things we do is I dig up their website and I take a look and you're just like. I don't know who's doing it. Well, it's my cousin, you know? Yeah. They do it for free, man. Cecil Bullard: Exactly. And you get what you pay for. Right. Exactly. Lucas Underwood: And I, I don't know if you know this, and I know we gotta jumped to the next question. I'm gonna tell you this little story real quick. You know, I took over the family business, it was not intentional. It's not something I wanted to do. I'm figuring it out, right? Lucas Underwood: Like day by day. It's not in automotive. For those of you wondering, this is completely different business, completely different world. And they had been doing all the marketing in-house and we went out and I talked to Kim and Brian Walker. I said, guys, I need help. I need you to gimme some type of recommendation of somebody who can handle this. Lucas Underwood: And we hired a marketing company that's what they do. They specialize in this business. And do you know that we can't figure out how to schedule our people anymore because it's busy in times when it's never been busy before. And so we can't figure out how to like, make this work because we found people who were efficient and doing a good job. Lucas Underwood: Well, if I'm gonna, Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna, which spent a quarter Lucas Underwood: of what we normally spend. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You know, I it will cut my expense. Really? Yep. And it will actually get me measurable results that I can manage. And yes. And so, yeah, I mean, God bless you. Try not to do it yourself. Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: And the basis today, I mean, there's two things. There's the guy that's got a problem today. Mm-hmm. They're going either to AI or they're going to Google and asking Who can fix my Audi, blah, blah, blah. And then I also need the oh, come on. Brain damage vein brandage branding. The branding that when they need, you know, two weeks from now, three weeks from now, when Lucas has a problem, Lucas says, yeah, oh, I remember that shop. Cecil Bullard: I've seen their name. Right. So when they do go looking, I'm familiar to them. Yeah. Different parts of Lucas Underwood: my marketing. Amen. Amen. So Lance asked a really great question here. This is something I do that's a little unique compared to what I think you do. I was taught this from my original coach, and he says, how do I properly document my warranty stuff in my SMS? Lucas Underwood: So, I want to know what my true cost of this is. Cecil. I'm gonna tell you what we do here in the shop is we make it like any other ticket. If it's warranty, we document the testing. We document exactly how we got to that. We go through the conclusions. It's got the five Cs on it. All of the testing data is attached. Lucas Underwood: We bill it out like a normal job, and the way that we, instead of going in and discounting it, the way that I track it is I use a payment method and that payment method is then leaked to an expense account in QuickBooks. Now I have one for each technician. I have one for each service advisor. I have one for the manager, I have one for myself. Lucas Underwood: I have one for each part vendor. I have all of those things placed in there. I have policy work and advertising. And you know, like policy work for me is, you know, we didn't really cause that, but I understand your situation. Let me help friends and family, same thing. Now I can track that by the percentages of income, Cecil Bullard: my own vehicles, my own fleet. Cecil Bullard: Yes. Absolutely. And I think we had nine marketing codes in our Yeah. In our shop. And we used those codes to track it back to an account. That, I mean, money never changed hands, but it looked like money changed hands. Yeah. And, yeah. And then the other thing is you wanna have a warranty sheet that gets filled out on every car. Cecil Bullard: Yes. Who's the tech? What was the original repair wire? What went wrong? You know, where's the fault? I'm not trying to find fault so I can blame somebody or beat somebody up. But if I have the same tech making the same mistakes over and over, yes. And I can't pin that down, then we keep making the same mistakes. Cecil Bullard: If. Lucas Underwood: If it's Cecil Bullard: a parts failure, because I'm buying parts from this company and it's a, you know, I have to be able to see that, and I have a grade form that is always filled out whenever there's a warranty and then management signs off on we've decided to give this customer, you know, a thousand dollars worth of whatever, because it really wasn't our fault, but okay, great. Cecil Bullard: Then we put it in the right code and Lucas Underwood: we Cecil Bullard: track Lucas Underwood: it. We might try and set that up so folks can get that form. I'm gonna tell you something about that beyond just this, with that form, right? Yeah. Beyond just internal needs. Something that I've learned and you know, Wayne Marshall and I had a great conversation at Apex. Lucas Underwood: We were talking about all this stuff going on with the family business, right? Speaker 4: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And he said, Lucas, he said, what you will learn after running businesses, the sizes of businesses that I've ran, is everything has to be documented. Yeah. 'cause it's all it can't come back to he said, she said, or this person did this, or this person did that. Lucas Underwood: You need to document every single thing that you can. He said, I don't care if you send a text message. I don't care if you put it on paper. I don't care how you do it. You need a record of everything you can possibly document. And there's also, Cecil Bullard: go ahead. There's also, you can't manage it if you can't see it. Cecil Bullard: Yes. If there's no visibility into it. Yeah. And it doesn't mean like I had my super tech. Mm-hmm. No mistake that he made was ever his mistake. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It was always a parts failure. Someone else's fault. Exactly. And so when he had to redo that job or someone else had to redo that job, you know, it wasn't my fault. Cecil Bullard: Parts failure. Yeah. I knew it was his fault. As the manager, somebody has to say, no, it was your fault. Yeah. Okay. That's a hundred percent right. A hundred percent. And if you're just passing it through, 'cause you're, let me just put the parts cost in. Wait, no, I don't really have cost 'cause that's a warranty part. Cecil Bullard: So I don't have that let me just put the tech cost in except my tech cost in my point of sale, shop wear, whatever it's not correct 'cause I haven't really calculated it Right. Et cetera. And so that's all it really costs me. No. Cost You double. Right? Yeah. Because that same tech that's doing that warranty. Cecil Bullard: He's not out producing, you know, $280 worth of parts and labor per hour because he's spending three hours doing that warranty. Yep. And so I like having the whole amount, having the account set aside with the right code that you can pull it out even though I'm not transferring money, it just looks that way. Cecil Bullard: And I can say, okay, we had a 5% warranty this month, and that's too high. It doesn't meet our standard Lucas Underwood: Exactly. A hundred percent onto the next one. And I need to answer this won't take just a second. Same fellow Lance asked this question, said, Hey, I just hired a coach. What's your advice for meeting with my new coach? Lucas Underwood: Very first thing, and I'm gonna tell you from the shop owner perspective. Be honest, be vulnerable. Put the things that really hurt out there and say 'em. Don't hide behind that ego. Don't hide behind that pride. Say what you're up against. Because if you don't say, if you don't get it out there, it doesn't get fixed. Lucas Underwood: You need to be honest. You need to be open, you need to be direct, and you need to understand that they have to push back on you. Right? I'll never forget my first business coach, right? One of the things that he kept saying was, is What's your vision? And he would say, no, that's not it. And I'm saying, dude, I'm telling you. Lucas Underwood: You asked me what I want, where I wanna go. He's like, but that's not good enough. Yeah. And I got mad. Yeah. I won't lie. I got mad and he said, listen to me, you are looking, a year from now, you're looking, six months from now, you're looking, two years from now, you have a 20, 30, 40 year life in front of you in this industry. Lucas Underwood: What does it look like in 40 years? And so you gotta push back some. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And plus the, from the coaching side you know, having done this a lot I want data that's I can understand. Yeah. So, and reports from your point of sale may or may not give me that data. Certainly a decent profit and loss statement if you have it. Cecil Bullard: If not, we're gonna have to develop one. You know, you if I can't see what's going on, I can't help you. And if you're not open because you're ashamed or you're afraid or whatever then I'm not gonna be able to help you. 'cause I can't get the data to make good decisions. Good choices. Yeah. Had a meeting with a new client. Cecil Bullard: We're just, they just put in tech metric. They don't have a decent p and l. The reports from the old system are inaccurate. And he's like, well, what are the five things I should do right now? Well, you know, at this point I can't really give you great advice because I haven't got enough data. And so we have to fill that out. Cecil Bullard: And then it if you're a decent, if you're a good coach, you're probably saying, what are your goals? What is your future? You know, what's the vision? Because things should be built around that. And I think you also have to have a bit of a relationship where you can say to, you have to respect whoever's gonna coach you. Cecil Bullard: Yes. And if you, because if you can't, then you can't take the feedback that you need to have. Yeah. And you need to make actionable. And some, you know, I always tell people, you're never gonna agree with me a hundred percent don't care who I coach. But you know, if you listen 85% of the time, we're gonna do really well. Cecil Bullard: Right. That's Lucas Underwood: exactly right. And a coach has got to somewhat be a bit of a therapist, a bit of a counselor. We're big tough men. We've never talked about these things. We've never talked about our fears. We've never put 'em on the table. You know, ed Caswell, who's in here is somebody who does this phenomenally because he encourages the people in his life, Hey, let's talk about the hard things. Lucas Underwood: Let's stop trying to cover this up. Let's stop letting ego get in the way. Let's push forward let's drive. Let's make this better, because if you don't talk about it, and if you don't get it out there and deal with it, it never gets better. I had So shop owners will hold that inside and hurt over it, and they don't need to. Cecil Bullard: I had a meeting today with a, with one of my clients and I told him, I said your biggest challenge is that you don't have the skillset yet to be a good manager. Yeah. And you have, you need that skillset if you're gonna have multiple shops and Sure. And you could tell he was oh. But then he was like, okay, Cecil, next meeting, can we talk about what that skillset is and what I need to learn? Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: You know, that's hundred why I brought it Lucas Underwood: up, right? Yeah, exactly. And it's not to hurt you, right? No. It's not to cause harm. It's not to make you feel bad about yourself. It's if you can't see that, if there's that blind spot and we can't see where we're weak, right. If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in trouble. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Right. Because you won't ever see that blind spot. And those blind spots are what gives you your massive growth. That's where the development and the movement comes from. The next question. How should we pay a gs? There's a lot of questions in this one, so we're gonna start with how do we pay a gs Cecil Bullard: I hate gss. Cecil Bullard: Okay. And not everybody has to start somewhere, but mm-hmm. We hire this guy that's gonna change oil and do our inspections. Who's the worst qualified person to do an inspection on a, you know, 2019 Toyota Tacoma, right? Mm-hmm. The GS tech. There are things that are unique to that vehicle that someone that's trained is gonna see that a GS is never gonna see. Cecil Bullard: And Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: I think I owe it to my. Customer, my client, to give them the best inspection, the best information. And but how do I pay a gs? I think you look at what's, you have to understand your business again financially. So, you know, I'm a post-it. I'm $140 an hour, but effectively I'm 125. Cecil Bullard: Okay? Yeah. Yeah. So, based on my effective, I can pay up to 40%, about 36% loaded of my effective rate. So if I'm 1 25 as an effective rate, that really says that in my shop, I can probably pay. I don't know, $50 an hour, 48, something like that. And then I have to assume the load. So back that down. Now I'm at 32. Cecil Bullard: Yep. And a GS is gonna get paid enough to be able to afford an apartment gas for their car. You know, maybe beans and rice have the refrigerator full enough that they feel comfortable. But they're also not gonna get paid the maximum that I could pay at say, 38 bucks an hour. Yeah. So, but this whole idea of paying somebody 18 or 20 bucks an hour to start and come to work for me the McDonald's down the street here in Utah is I think starting people out at 24 bucks an hour. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And what skillset do I need there? Right. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, absolutely. Cecil Bullard: We're asking these young people to come in and basically work for nothing, and we're saying, well, yeah, and they're also not productive. You have to understand that you have to plan your business so that you have the funds to pay this unproductive GS guy for some period of time. Cecil Bullard: I would also say that along with the pay part, the bonus part is I expect four hours a day of productive work, or five hours a day of productive work out of you. And if you do that, then there's additional pay that comes to you if you get new training, if you go out and yeah, take classes. If you buy new tools or, you know, learn new skill sets on the tools and the equipment the mentorship program that we have, I have a way to level you up. Cecil Bullard: And yeah, a lot of my bonus structures around productivity, but there's a reasonable base pay for that person. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. And you know, one of our requirements here is like we have today's class. We just implemented that and it's always been scanner danner, like, you have to go through the scanner, Danner, we'll buy you the book, whatever you need, but you have to go through that because I don't want you to stall here. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. That's one of the biggest complaints I get from young people is they get stalled out in the lube Bay. They get stalled out in the tire bay. Now, for me, what I found like a huge eye-opening thing, I had not been around other shops and I had always just done things the way I did things. So for my GS guys, what I was doing is I was just cutting the hours way down. Lucas Underwood: I was paying them hourly, I was cutting the hours way down, so I was matching everybody else's prices. And so now I've added those multiple labor rates so I can adjust. And I know that person that's in that position and you know, one thing that I heard somebody say the other day is they said, you have to remember that your, a tech may not be as profitable and your GS tech may not be as profitable. Lucas Underwood: They're feeding the middle. And, you know, you talk about the estimating, like, do you know, I disagree a million percent. I'm, well, I'm just saying like, I am with you. I know why you disagree, and I think that the atac we should charge should be the most profitable Cecil Bullard: because you're charging more money for that person because they have absolutely have a much higher skill set. Cecil Bullard: We're not, are we right? No. We, the average shop is absolutely not. Are we doing? It's why, that's why today the smart shops and, oh, Cecil just said only smart guys do this. So he's telling me I'm dumb. I'm really not. But the leading edge guys, the guys that are on the front of. Change in and everything. Cecil Bullard: They have probably four or five different labor rates. Yeah. They have different labor rates for older cars. Higher, yes. They have different labor rates for diag much higher. They have different labor rates for European cars than they have for Kias and Hyundais and Toyotas and Yeah. You know, and they have different labor rates for different jobs that take different skill sets. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. This guy's, next question, I think this is a good one is there a time when we should charge, and Michael got ahead of me, he's going back and fixing it. Is there a time that we should charge for estimates? Now let me, I think this is important for us to talk about because for your car to make it into my shop, I'm typically going to be charging for a service no matter what. Lucas Underwood: Okay. Mm-hmm. And so I'm making that estimate because I've already got your car in the shop and I'm doing work. I've oil service, testing, tire jobs, something. And now when I'm doing my 300% rule, I'm going over everything. I'm making estimates for what the car needs not to sell you something to inform you and keep you advised. Lucas Underwood: Because I'm your advocate, that's my hoping that you'll buy Cecil Bullard: the right stuff. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. Because I'm supposed to be advising you and telling you what's gonna make this car safe and reliable for you and your family. That's my job. I'm not gonna make an estimate. I'm sorry, Cecil. If you disagree, I'm gonna tell you're wrong. Lucas Underwood: I'm not gonna make an estimate over the phone when they call me and say, Hey, I need an alternator. Cecil Bullard: No, we don't, not, we don't price on the phone. Okay. Yeah. The only things I can price on the phone are you know, for that particular diagnostic, this is what our base starting is this is where we start, right? Cecil Bullard: And if I do have someone saying you know, I, I need a cooling flush and a break flush, or whatever, my question then is who told you? Yeah. Where's the car? Help me understand why do you think you need that? Right? Yeah. And frankly, I still need to inspect the car. Yeah. Because, and you see it on your, your site. I mean, every Facebook, every other day somebody is going you know, this customer said they needed X, Y, Z and they came in and I did X, Y, Z and they're dad didn't fix their problem and now they're mad at me, but I did what they wanted. Right. No. You're the professional. Imagine going to the doctor and saying, Hey, I need you to take my appendix out 'cause I have a pain in my right. Cecil Bullard: Oh, Bob over Lucas Underwood: here said, and Cecil Bullard: yeah. And my cousin said, it's my appendix. And you're never gonna do that. So. Speaker 4: Sure. Cecil Bullard: And then back to the question, if you're doing a $69 oil change, 'cause you're trying to be competitive with oil changers or whoever down the street, and then how are you gonna afford the time for your service advisor to write that up properly in your tech, to write it up properly and your tech to do a good. Cecil Bullard: Digital vehicle inspection. Yeah. We can we gotta stop thinking in terms of how cheap can I make it. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And we Cecil Bullard: gotta stop talking about, we gotta start talking about, in order for me to do a good inspection and do a good, you know, 15 years ago I was running a shop. Our cheapest service was $165. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And my customers came in every day and paid that. And that included the time that it took to do a good inspection. That included the time that it took to create a good estimate. And then the other part of that would be, okay, I, but cis, I still want to do a $69 oil change because I think I have to be competitive. Cecil Bullard: All right, great. Then raise your labor rate somewhere else so that you can pay for the time to do the inspections and pay for the time to do the estimates. Exactly. And exactly. If you're not estimate, you cannot sell. What you do Lucas Underwood: not Cecil Bullard: estimate. Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. And you know, I have been saying this ever since Michael Smith said it to me a while back. Lucas Underwood: I tell everybody this little story that he tells and it's something that we have to think about as an industry because we are in the middle of a consolidation swing, right? It's happening all around us. It just happened to body shops. It's gonna happen to mechanical, there's no way around it. And these guys are trying to compete. Lucas Underwood: With the consolidators and they may not even realize it. And what they're doing is they're getting out here and they're saying, Hey, that guy's doing oil change for this. That guy's doing tires for this. Michael talks about the fact that when he was in mergers and acquisitions with a very large company, they bought a bunch of funeral homes. Lucas Underwood: And he said that the other little mom and pop funeral homes were actually coming to him saying, why can't I compete with these guys? And Michael said, 'cause I'm buying container loads of caskets. Caskets. Yeah. If I can buy 'em for a hundred dollars, you can buy 'em for 2000. Yeah. You won't compete with me when you lower your price, I'll just lower my price. Lucas Underwood: You'll be at zero margin. I'll still be at 70% margin because you Cecil Bullard: can't compete with me. And by the way, that customer that's gonna go to that chain store, to that dealership isn't probably not my customer. They're not looking for the same thing, you know, the unreasonable hospitality book. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: We have to become. Cecil Bullard: Better at unreasonable hospitality than anybody else in our industry. That's the thing that's gonna allow us to be profitable. That's the thing that's gonna allow us to survive. Those, that customer's not coming to you because you're the cheapest guy on the block. And if they are right, you built the wrong business that you cannot survive because you cannot compete with Walmart or Costco or whoever. Cecil Bullard: Right? Yeah. So, I wish we would quit the rush to the cheapest price in the bottom of the drain. Lucas Underwood: I think we have made a little bit of a problem for our industry. Okay. I was in, so I was in Florida. Universal Studios stopped by there, went to some other places, was at a show called ia, and it's for the amusement industry, family entertainment centers, things like that. Lucas Underwood: That's the space the family business is in. And I watched the people in this show go to vendors and make million, 2 million, 5 million, 10 million deals all day long. One right after another. Didn't even shake about it. Right. Just like, here's the money, do it. Right. They didn't negotiate. They didn't argue. Lucas Underwood: Lots of money changed hands. And I'm, I was thinking about that. And then later in the day, we went to a universal theme park, four people in front of us went through, it was $5,200 that they invested to go to Universal for the two days they were gonna be there. 50, $200. Speaker 4: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Right. We're afraid. Lucas Underwood: To give a client an estimate for an oil change, yet they're over here spending $5,200 later in the week on Thursday. This organization's highly involved in Universal Studios and so we go over to Universal after they close their new theme park. And I was talking to a lady that worked for Universal. Lucas Underwood: She said, we have 33,000 employees in Orlando. We have over 3000 managers. Yeah. We have a payroll budget that would make you sick to your stomach. We work 10,000 people a day. Yeah. 10,000 people a day. And you're telling me that they won't pay to have their car properly repaired? No. It's because of the image we've created. Lucas Underwood: It's the situation we've made and we keep backing ourselves into this corner. It's time for us to rise up and charge what we need to charge and be the professionals we need to be. We need to stop worrying about what Bob down the street's doing. We have to do what we have to do to make sure our businesses are profitable. Lucas Underwood: Let Cecil Bullard: Bob, we're Lucas Underwood: on the curve. Cecil Bullard: Let Bob bankrupt his business. Let Bob hire somebody at 15 bucks an hour and lose him. I can't do that. I want run my business as a financial model and make sure that I'm profitable in all areas of my business. Yeah, and absolutely there are gonna be some people that are gonna say, I don't want to go there and that's fine. Cecil Bullard: The one more just comment maybe before we go on to the next thing, we've, I've worked with three to 4,000 clients individually over my career, and we currently work with several hundred clients at the institute. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And the top. 15%, the guys that make the most money, the guys that have the most consistent businesses, the guys that don't worry about the fact that Thanksgiving is coming. Cecil Bullard: The guys that have, you know, 500,000 sitting in the bank as a you know, here's my spare money in case we have a bad week or whatever. Speaker 4: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: those guys have things in common, and one of them is they're not the cheapest guy. They're always the most expensive guy in the neighborhood, and they're constantly helping their customers understand why that's of value. Cecil Bullard: Okay. So why should you come here and spend more money with me than you go somewhere else? And I think we know this all the time. We buy shit online. Oh. We buy stuff online and it comes not your censorship. You can say whatever you want. Yeah. It comes and to our homes or our businesses. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we go, well, that was wasted money. That's a piece of crap. And, but it was cheap. Lucas Underwood: Right. I've had so many conversations with shop owners over the years, and I'll say, let me ask you a question. So what, okay. Last time, let's say you replaced a TV in your house, Uhhuh. When was that? Oh, I bought one last year. Lucas Underwood: Okay. Tell me something. Did you go and buy the 13 inch black and white television, this thing that you could find, Cecil Bullard: right? That they sell for $23 and 99 cents? Or did you buy the. $1,400. Right. I wanted a Lucas Underwood: nice TV Cecil Bullard: ole or whatever it is. Lucas Underwood: Right, right. Yeah. No, I wanted a nice tv. Okay, so that means you are telling me that you're so worried about raising your prices because of consumer perception but you could buy the cheapest TV if consumer perception was all that. Lucas Underwood: It was, wouldn't everybody buy the cheapest thing? It's not just money that motivates us to buy. Right. And I think that's something that's lost. And so many of us we're technicians and you know this as well as I do, there's a lot of technicians selling out of their wallets as shop owners today. Lucas Underwood: And it, it just, they don't have the perspective they need. They just don't have it different. Cecil Bullard: There's a, when you go from being a tech, there's a skillset that you have when you become a manager or service advisor. Different skillset. Yeah. When you become an owner, different skillset. And if you don't learn to think in a different way to have the different skillset, what that is, then you're never gonna achieve what you can achieve. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Okay, next question. Can you guys please explain the preferred customer program a little more in detail now? This was you talking about it, so I'll kind of let you Yeah. I think the last time, take that and roll with it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I looked at, I wanted people to book their next appointment. And in order to get that done, I felt like I needed to give them some something. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So, you could come to my shop and get a loaner car no matter who you were. Yeah. We had loaner cars for everybody because we knew that if I gave you a car, you were gonna spend five times more than somebody that was gonna wait for their car. Right. So let's give you a car. You go away that solves your transportation problem. Cecil Bullard: It's that hospitality thing that unreasonable hospitality. Yeah. We also watched every car that came in. We ran surveys. The surveys said, customers most important thing is having a clean car. And the second most important thing is having a loaner car that they don't have to worry about transportation. Cecil Bullard: So when I did the loaner cars, when I did the car washes, I raised my liberate by four bucks an hour because my cost was gonna be two bucks an hour to do that. Yeah. Anticipated. Now that said. I'm already giving loaner cars and car washes to everybody, but I created a card that said you're a preferred customer. Cecil Bullard: And on that card, there were two loaner cars valued at $65 a day. Yeah. There were two car washes valued at $40 or 42 or whatever. Right. There were, there was a windshield treatment, which if we had done it for you separately, like an Aqua Pelle or a high-end Rain X we would've probably charged you 90 bucks. Cecil Bullard: And so we valued it at 90, but we gave it to our customer for being a preferred customer. We also discounted some of our services by a little bit. Okay. 'cause we also knew that if you're a preferred customer, once we did the service and we presented the work to you, you bought twice as much as a non-preferred customer. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Okay. And so I created a card that, and everybody that came in, I said, my service advisors or me said, would you like to be a preferred customer? And they were like, what does that mean for me? Well, we have a card here. It's got these items on it. It's worth about $450, and you get one of these every year, has a preferred customer. Cecil Bullard: But we ask something from you. What we ask is that you make and keep your next appointment. Now we have six months service schedules, so will we be booking a service for you in six months? Okay. And if you can't make it, we have a communication communications system that three weeks before we're gonna send you a message and three days before we're gonna give you a call. Cecil Bullard: And if you can't make it, all we ask is that you go, let's get it rescheduled. I'm not ready, or I can't make it. Okay. Right. Just like the dentist and For sure. And after doing that for the first year I think we were booking nine, 10 appointments a day out of 13 cars. Okay. Right. And we had a, I don't know, it was 69% or 72% show up rate. Cecil Bullard: Okay. And I didn't think that was high enough. So I started closing the window a little people that wouldn't make their appointment, people that fought me I didn't make them preferred customers. Yeah. And so now we're booking six cars a day out of the 13. Yeah. But we had a 92% show up rate. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And if you looked at a month, we actually had a, like a 97% show up rate within a month of the appointment. 'cause that was what we did. Right? And it's just a card and it's a script that you would teach your service advisors to say, would you like to be a preferred customer? And here's what we do for you and here's what we want ask for from you. Cecil Bullard: Now, by the way, because we were already doing loaner cars and we were already doing car washes, my cost for that preferred customer card was, I don't think it cost me $35 for the year. Yeah, for sure. To offer that. And these people spent twice as much and they didn't argue and they weren't hard to convince to do the work they needed. Cecil Bullard: And by having six appointments a day, all of a sudden my car count leveled out. Lucas Underwood: That's what I was getting ready to say ups and downs is I'm over here thinking, you know, here we are, we're coming out of Thanksgiving, we're going into Christmas. We know this time of year is very up and down, and I'm thinking like, what would six months ago have been, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. I'm thinking in the rush of my season, busy. And so now I'm, you know, back to the same thing where we're talking about the amusement side of things, right? I was in this meeting and this training and they had these research and analyst and they were talking about these huge parks and they've got it all heat mapped out and they're like, here's where we're busy, here's where we're slow. Lucas Underwood: We're gonna move volume from here to here with this strategy. Hang on a minute. Now this is, we're gonna put Cecil Bullard: The water Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The $18 waters and the $12 ice cream over here. So people have to go over there. Exactly. And then they're gonna be where we Lucas Underwood: want 'em to be. And we gotta think about that. Lucas Underwood: So like in their scheduling, right? They change prices and they adjust things and they move things around based on that. And I was thinking, gosh, our industry is lacking when it comes to this thought process. Thinking ahead and planning. We've not developed and grown. Cecil, why is that? Why when you look at this industry we're what, how many points behind inflation since 1980? Cecil Bullard: Oh my God. The average shop right now should be probably 264. $265. Yeah. If we raised 3% a year since 1980. Yeah. The average shop right now, I think, like I said, the last survey was like 1 28 or something. I do have shops. I a new client the other day I'm talking to, and he's like, I said, well, so what's your labor rate? Cecil Bullard: He says, oh, we're 365 an hour. I was like, oh my gosh. Oh, right. You know, and of course they're in a, they're in a a very wealthy part of town working on high-end cars and Yeah, that makes sense. But they're not afraid to be what they need to be. I mean, why do we not because we make excuses. Cecil Bullard: Mm-hmm. And we accept the excuses. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Okay. Cecil Bullard: I'm not, I mean. What can I control, right? What can I control? Can I put a preferred customer program? Can I create a card? Can I punch it out when the customer comes? If the customer forgets their card, do I really care if I need to punch that out or not? Cecil Bullard: Because you know what, if they came back a third time and I needed to give 'em a loaner car, I'd still give 'em a loaner car. I wouldn't say, well, you're outta loaner cars, right? Yeah, because so we are so busy trying to get the next car out. I talk about the assembly line, you know, I went to Nema Uhmi, which was Toyota's plant in San Jose, California. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, they're not there anymore, but they were the best and most successful manufacturer in the world, right? And not by like 3%, by like 28%. They put out 28% more cars with 28% less flaws outta that plant than anybody else. I went on the tour and I said at the end of the tour, I said, okay, I heard all the crap. Cecil Bullard: What's the secret? They said, there's two things we do. Number one, when there's a problem on the line, we stop the line. Yeah. The whole line. Not just a Lucas Underwood: piece of it, all of it. We don't Cecil Bullard: go, okay, we'll deal with that a six months from now, we fix it. And number two, when the line is stopped, everybody's responsible for fixing it. Cecil Bullard: So think about in terms of your shop. So I have a business and I'm not making the profits that I need to, right. But I've gotta work, instead of looking at my pricing and looking at how I dispatch and how I do, I have a preferred customer program. What's my marketing look like? I've gotta fix that car because it's got a problem and it's kicking my ass or my people's ass. Cecil Bullard: And so I'm gonna dig into that. I'm not stopping the line. Exactly. I'm not solving the problem. Right. You know why that is. Right? Do you know why that is? Sure. You know why? Because I know why that is. Joy out of fixing the car and being the guy that can fix the car. Not the joy out of exactly. Cecil Bullard: Fixing a lot of cars. It's because we know happy and making money. Right. We don't Lucas Underwood: know how to do the other thing. We know how to fix the car. Well, Cecil Bullard: then you go, okay, so that's the variable. Lucas Underwood: I know the monster in the closet that I know. I know how to deal with that. Cecil Bullard: So why do I need a coach? Right? I mean, I, yeah. Cecil Bullard: I have mentors. You know, you talked about Wayne and you talked about Michael and people that work in the company and outside of the company. I'm always trying to find like, oh man, that person does that really well. Yeah. I need to learn how to do that really well. Do I have to pay them? Will they do it for free? Cecil Bullard: Will they become a mentor of mine? Will they get in my circle? How do I get 'em in my circle? Right? Yeah. I wanna surround myself with. With everybody that has all the skill sets that I don't have, so that when I need that skill set, I can go can they teach me that? Or do I hire them to do, you know, we talked about marketing, you know, hire marketing companies. Cecil Bullard: Stop trying to do your own marketing. You're not qualified. It's too complex, right? Oh, I'm gonna do my own brain surgery, right? Oh, yeah. Because it's cheaper. I offered Cecil, I would've to a fortune. No, I got a pair. Needle knife. Thank you. Yeah. And a and a hot iron. We would've, that's it. We would've got up there and did that, burned that right out. Lucas Underwood: It may not have been nearly as like aesthetically pleasing was done, but I promise I've gotten it outta there, Cecil Bullard: scar, et cetera. But you know, it's kind of this mentality of, and I don't know if it's. You know, the guys with a DHD, we have a high level of A DHD in our industry, the guys that are dyslexic, we have a high level of dyslexia in our industry. Cecil Bullard: I don't know if we were kind of pushed into that, into automotive and fixing cars, I think all of us have certain talents that when we do certain things, it just brings us joy. Right? Yeah. I mean, you get a car that doesn't run, comes in on a tow truck, and you know, you spend a couple hours on it and then you're driving it down the street and it's, you know, you're driving it like a striped ass tape, right? Cecil Bullard: And it's running like that, and there's you're smiling from ear to ear and you're endorphins are going, your adrenaline's up and you're just excited. And then you come in and you go. I have to try to figure out how to get my customers to book appointments. You know, that's not fun. That's not, you know, but if you plan, it's not Lucas Underwood: like I feel like I can do anything about it. Lucas Underwood: I feel helpless. I feel powerless. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Right. But if you know what to do and you actually do it, and you create a team of people that will get behind you to help you do those things, right? Yeah. And that's the whole company. And here's the thing. Lucas Underwood: It becomes fun. It does. It does. And here's the thing is that I think there's a lot of fear involved. Lucas Underwood: I think we make a lot of decisions based on fear in this industry. And we love our shops. They're our babies. We've poured our heart and soul into them, and we feel like anything we do could disrupt or damage our shops. And so it's very hard to make those decisions. It's very hard to make that push and jumping out on that limb to make a big move like that fills and, you know, I, Cecil Bullard: so have you basically said, this is what I really want. Cecil Bullard: This is my vision. Yeah. These are the results that I need in order. To be ultimately successful to get what I need out of this business, both financially, emotionally, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And many guys have never thought past the next job, the next bill. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: absolutely. And they push themselves into a spot. Lucas Underwood: And I keep seeing this happen. They push themselves into a spot where they're convinced they're either going to be miserable for the rest of their lives, or all of a sudden they're the one who does the flip. And they're like, I don't care about the client, I don't care about the car, I don't care about anything. Lucas Underwood: And I think that's something important we need to bring up because a lot of people think that fixing the car is like some great magical thing for our consumer. That's the base level of proficiency for an auto repair shop. That's the expectation. Yeah. Yeah. You have to go, well, Cecil Bullard: you have to go well beyond fixing the car. Cecil Bullard: And by the way, fixing the car. I know a lot of shops that fix a lot of cars and go broke. Absolutely. Where everybody's unhappy, miserable, they can't afford the tools they need, they can't even fix the roof that's leaking water every time it rains. Yep. Because they're afraid to raise their labor rate by 10 bucks an hour. Cecil Bullard: I argue with or to hold up parts margin, you know, properly or whatever. Lucas Underwood: I argue with Brian Pollock multiple times a week about this, and this is a very upsetting topic for some folks. But here's the deal. I talked to Brian and we're talking about the fact that I'm over here with a 4.9 star on Google and I can look at my negatives and I'm like, yeah, I earned that. Lucas Underwood: Yep. And I look over across the street and there's somebody with 3.3 stars. They are known to not fix the car and the parking lot's packed full. And they did tons and tons of revenue, but I, it couldn't just be fixing the car. Cecil Bullard: So I, there's a guy, I could mention his name. You and I both know him real well. Cecil Bullard: He is one of our clients. Been a client for a long time. Yeah. He's got multiple shops. When we started they were doing 2.1 million Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And losing money Yep. In their business. Yep. You know, and I think the first year we did like 2.4 and we made four or $500,000. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because we restructured and we did, you know, the important, the things that are important, right? Cecil Bullard: The, I've gotta price myself correctly. I have to make sure that I have systems and process that create productive people. Wait minute, you didn't do it by Lucas Underwood: fixing all the cars? Cecil Bullard: No. Fixing cars is again, like, I'm gonna go to the grocery store, I'm gonna buy groceries. Right. And I expect when I open that bread up it's. Cecil Bullard: It's bread and that I can make a sandwich with it. Right. That's exactly. And so you, you don't win anything by giving me bread. Yeah. You win stuff by having a clean store where I can find what I need and I have some choices to make, and maybe I could buy that high end bread that's twice as expensive, but I kind of like that one. Cecil Bullard: Right. And you could do the same thing when you talk about the industry that your family's in, right? Speaker 4: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It's not, it's the experience that the customer walks away from thinking how they so close out. Not for this, but I'm gonna close you out. Mm-hmm. I have a script. You know, Hey Lucas. Cecil Bullard: I've taken your money. I'm not gonna say this, but I already, I got your keys in hand. I got your keys in my hand. And I'm gonna say, Hey, Lucas, you know, before you leave, I need a promise from you. Will you promised me something? And you're gonna say, ah, had to pay on the Cecil, or, sure. Whatever. And I'm gonna say, well, it's two things, right? Cecil Bullard: Number one, if we did a great job three days from now, someone's gonna call you and say, did we do a great job, basically? And if we did, do you mind recommending us to family and friends? Right? And you're gonna say, what? Yes. You know, you're gonna say yes. And then I'm gonna say this, Lucas, here's where the promise comes in. Cecil Bullard: It's the most important thing. If you can't say yes, would you call me personal? My name is on these two business cards, my personal phone number. And tell me why you can't say yes. So I can fix that so that we can take care of our clients and make you happy. Right? A hundred. And now you're walking away from my shop. Cecil Bullard: Having had an experience with someone who cares about whether or not you're happy instead of Well, I fixed your car, right? Yep, a hundred percent. And Lucas Underwood: I've got a reel that, that upset a lot of people and it's a reel of Dutch. And he was talking about the fact that the new generation, and I don't necessarily think this is a generational thing, but Dutch, we gotta be careful Cecil Bullard: about generalities and course generation stuff. Cecil Bullard: But yeah, of course. But Lucas Underwood: he, that, that's kind of where he was taking it. And he said, I don't care if it's blowing a hundred miles an hour in the wind and it's snowing and you can't see the runway, and all of the things that could go wrong have gone wrong. You don't get a pat on the back by the chief pilot for landing the plane because that was your damn job. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: you have to do that. Your job was to land the plane. There was no exception. That was the job. And see, we miss that in automotive. We think that everything's about fixing the car. We become hyper-focused on the car itself. And the car is the least important part of this equation, in my opinion. Is it important to fix it, right? Lucas Underwood: Yes. I would tell. Cecil Bullard: I would tell you the most important thing is customer experience. Yes, absolutely. And customer experience starts with your marketing. Yeah. And what they can see. How do you answer the phone? I have. Yeah, I have. I have listened to 10,000 phone calls. Yeah. If I've listened to one, and that's not an exaggeration, and I can name on. Cecil Bullard: Two hands and one foot. How many people answered the phone correctly or well, right. Yeah. And that's the customer, that's the start of the customer experience. Are you educating that customer about why you do what you do and how that's beneficial to them throughout the whole experience? Are you in the experience with another experience? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So that they walk away with the right stuff in their head. Have you stopped the assembly line? Lucas Underwood: To Cecil Bullard: figure out what's wrong and a hundred percent put those things in place so that you can give them a great, and by the way, the second most important thing is making sure that you're profitable so that you can deliver those experiences. Cecil Bullard: Amen. Right. Lucas Underwood: Amen. So you can stand behind it so you can take care of your people. Yeah. So you do the things that have to be done. Cecil, I know we gotta wrap up here and so I'm just gonna jump in and tell Jacob's a good friend of mine. He asked a question, I'm gonna save this question. Okay. Lucas Underwood: We're gonna answer it next time. I may even respond to him personally and answer. His parents are actually in my neighborhood right now, so they're welcome to stop. Oh, cool. Say hello. Come on in. So, I just wanted to say to Jacob, Hey buddy, I'm sorry we didn't get to your question. I promise that we will answer it next time and I will make sure Cecil gets a copy of it so he can reach out to you and give you his answer as well. Lucas Underwood: But we will get it answered next time. Cecil. In closing. We have one minute left. And I've never heard you say anything in one minute. Is there anything you want the people to know? Don't Cecil Bullard: misquote me online. Lucas Underwood: Listen, I wanna say I could be wrong. I believe that was Chris Inright. And Chris is one of the sweetest, most humble and awesome human beings you'll ever meet. And I believe that Chris I believe that Chris may have taken something in the wrong light. I could be completely wrong. It may not have Cecil Bullard: The quote was, Cecil said that all guys working outta their house are bums and you know, whatever. Lucas Underwood: Oh yeah, that's definitely Chris. That's why got his feelings hurt. That's who he is. Cecil Bullard: That's not, that is not what I've said. I was cleaning out a storage unit this weekend, and there's a guy working out of a storage unit on someone's car. Right, right. Now that guy is not helping the industry at all. Cecil Bullard: Okay. But I know a lot of my clients, I know a lot of people that started in their house and then they moved to a shop and then they move to coaching and now they have five shops or whatever. There's always a starting point and there's always bad people. A hundred percent in, in, no matter what it is. Cecil Bullard: Dentist, doctors mechanics, whatever you wanna call. Please don't Lucas Underwood: go to a dentist or a doctor that's working out of their home, though, I'll say that might be a bad Cecil Bullard: idea. Probably not that smart. Although it might save you some money. Right? That's it. You know, and I love the fact that we have a lot of questions. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we have a lot of people coming online and I'm. I'm glad that we get to make a difference here. Yeah. So, I look forward to the next one, brother. Lucas Underwood: Amen. Me too. And look I'll say this I admire someone like a Chris Enright, and I'll tell you why. It's because Chris Enright Hass been listening to people like you, people like all these other coaches in the industry. Cecil Bullard: I like to get quoted, so Lucas Underwood: I'm happy about that. Here's the thing is this man's been watching and he's been building the base of the business. Mm-hmm. And I wish that I had the patience and diligence that he did, because what he did is he started with the foundation and said, I'm gonna build the foundation. Lucas Underwood: Right. I'm gonna build a good foundation under this to do that. I need to do this at my home. I'm gonna start small, and when the opportunity presents itself, I will expand. But here's the foundation of how I'm gonna do this, and here's how I'm gonna be profitable and here's my plan. So he started very early saying, Hey, this may not be an ideal situation, but I'm gonna get profitable. Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna maximize what I have now. So now I can go buy something and I'm in a smart place. I can afford it and I can make this work. But the other thing is more people would slow down and pay attention to that. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: He charged enough to be profitable to have the money. To do the next level or the next five levels. Cecil Bullard: So amen. Lucas Underwood: Cecil, thank you for being here. Thank you, all of you for all the great questions. We look forward to it. Hopefully see you all again really soon. Next time we've got another one of these coming up and make sure you're emailing in some questions. We might do some more of the ones like we've done on changing the industry where we actually get a PowerPoint up and we answer some big questions and talk through some more delicate subjects. Lucas Underwood: So make sure you email your questions in. Cecil Bullard: Thank you guys. Thank you.

174 - Know Your Numbers or Pay the Price: A Shop Owner’s 20-Year Wake-Up Call November 18, 2025 - 00:49:58   Show Summary: Todd Compton shares how a childhood surrounded by NASCAR legends and go-kart engines pushed him toward a life in automotive repair. His path moved through military service, dealership work, and an intense side-hustle era before finally opening Compton’s Automotive in 2005. Todd walks through the expansions of his shop, the risks he took, and the financial lessons that came slower than the technical ones. He opens up about tax challenges, audits, and the importance of finding a competent CPA. Todd reflects on learning to run a business instead of just turning wrenches and why protecting employees with benefits matters. The conversation closes with his passion project, Tools in Schools, where he advocates for bringing trades education back to students. It’s a story of grit, growth, and giving back to the next generation.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Todd Compton, Owner of Compton’s Automotive    Show Highlights: [00:02:28] – Todd describes how growing up around NASCAR giants like Buddy Baker and Robert Yates shaped his early fascination with cars. [00:03:55] – After his father passed, Todd taught himself engines by tearing apart go-kart motors and blowing a few up along the way. [00:05:11] – He joins the Army as a heavy wheel mechanic during Desert Storm, only to see a ceasefire called before deployment. [00:09:25] – Todd moves to Colorado, survives starving-dealership days, and eventually meets his wife before returning to Charlotte. [00:11:31] – A storage unit becomes his seven-day-a-week second job, where he and a friend fix cars in the rain and cook dinner between jobs. [00:14:26] – Todd asks his wife the hard question about risking everything to start his own business, leading to opening his shop in June 2005. [00:17:35] – He walks through each stage of expanding from 1,800 sq ft to 7,000 sq ft and building a multi-lift operation. [00:31:15] – Todd admits he didn’t understand financials for years, leading to tax problems and a CPA who failed to file three years of returns. [00:40:16] – A missed 5,500 form leads to a $25,000 penalty that his new CPA helps reverse through a North Carolina disaster clause. [00:45:31] – Todd explains Tools in Schools, a Charlotte initiative exposing kids to trades by putting real tools in their hands.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, my name is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Todd Compton of To Compton's Automotive in North Carolina. Todd, how the heck are you, brother? I'm doing well, Jimmy. Oh, that's so good to hear, man. Jimmy Lea: How's the weather in North Carolina right now? Oh, it's about right now it's about sunny and 70 degrees. Dang. Oh my gosh. It's cold. Where am I? I'm in Utah. Yeah. This morning it was 48 degrees. I think our high today is 52. Being a guy from the desert. We just moved to Northern Utah, so this is cold for me. Jimmy Lea: I'm bet. And 70 in November's. Gotta be hot for North Carolina. Todd Compton: Yeah. And office. Last Wednesday, Thursday. We had little bit snow here. Jimmy Lea: You had snow. Where are you? Charlotte, North Carolina. I love Charlotte. Oh my gosh, dude, Charlotte is one of the best Joey's truck repair. You know Joey? Todd Compton: Joey Todd Compton: I knew his last name. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it's Are you on the tip of your tongue when you've got it cock? Todd Compton: Not familiar. Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay. He's on the southwest side of town. Todd Compton: That's where I'm at. Jimmy Lea: Oh, are you? Joey's truck repair. He does a lot of fleet work. Todd Compton: Yeah. I'm over by the county airport area. Jimmy Lea: No, he's, he, I think he's past the airport anyways. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. When you look it up, make some introductions 'cause you, and I think you enjoy, you get along really well. He's a good dude. Todd Compton: Yeah. Yeah. I was say when you fly from Utah, when you fly into Charlotte, you will fly pretty much over my shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Todd Compton: Yeah. So that's cool. Todd Compton: I always look out the window when I look down, make sure the guys are working. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you do. Right? Well, I, and I'll tell you what, if ever I move out of Utah, I hope that Charlotte, north Carolina's on the list. Good. I love Charlotte, North Carolina. I love Charlotte. It's gorgeous place. Todd Compton: So is Utah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Utah's pretty great too. Pretty great too. So, couple questions for you about your journey here in the automotive aftermarket industry. I love, always love to start with your history and your past. How did you get into. The automotive aftermarket. Todd Compton: That's a long story. Yep. It probably really started when I was when I was a kid probably pre-teen years. Todd Compton: My dad he was in he was into being in Charlie we were big in NASCAR or my nascar, my dad. My dad was. This was back, you know, I mean, you know, when my mom and dad went to school with buddy Baker, Robert Yates, you know, I mean, and knew these people, you know, I mean, went to school with them. Todd Compton: And so, I, you know, growing up as a kid, I remember I remember my dad taking me to these race shops and I'll never forget gonna Daral, which is Dar, I remember sitting in the 88 Kade car as. Seven, eight years old, something like that. So we were big into go carts as well. And so, in 1985, my father passed away. Todd Compton: And in the building we had all these go carts and all these brick Stratton engines. And and so I wanted to learn how to build these things, you know, take apart and. I blew several of them up. You know, I didn't know what the oil pickup little tab was on the bridges and Stratton figured it wasn't important. Todd Compton: And so, well it was like the oil splash shield thing, you know? And I didn't think it was important. Well, you know, put a hole on them in engine. But anyway, fast forward a little bit. I, you know, I get in high school my ultimate goal was I was wanting to get into a race shop and and work on race cars is really what I wanted to do, and design 'em and build them. Todd Compton: The closer my dad's had a frame shop and he would build frames for Robert Yates and I think some for Rick Hendrick, you know, back, and this was back in the 80, late eighties, early nineties. And so, I when I went, when I got into high school, I took Automechanics one, two, and three and, the third ot, catch three, we went to this central Piedmont Community College. So to take college courses there. So, and then about this time, desert Storm was started to kick out up Todd Compton: Ooh. Todd Compton: And, you know, out, you know, in Kuwait. And so, I joined the military in the Army. And and so I went in and I. Todd Compton: Of all the jobs I probably could have picked. I went in as a heavy wheel mechanic and I wanted to work out in the field. So, by the time I got through basic training or getting ready to go into a IT, they'd called a ceasefire. So I never gotta go. I didn't get to go. So then after that I ended up going to you know, college, went to Nashville Auto Diesel College in, out in Tennessee. Todd Compton: And when I was out there, I graduated. I mean, I worked for a dealership out there. And I did trim work and oil changes. Jimmy Lea: Trim work. Trim work. Like body work? Todd Compton: No. So like in dealership, in the dealership world, you have this, the dealership was specialized, so you had your drivability guys that fixed your check engine lights, left the problems. Todd Compton: Then you had your line guys, which would do your oil leaks cylinder heads, valve covers, things like that. Then you had your trim guy, which he would do like, rattles squeaks, water leaks. You know, if a trim panel was discolored, you know, you'd warrant, it was almost all warranty work. Oh, wow. Todd Compton: You know, you know, carpet that was slightly frayed or whatever you're replacing the carpet. And so, so they had me doing, like I said, I was quickly got, and I did trim work, so I remember keeping a five gallon bucket between my two stalls. I would be pulling a door panel off a Corvette and then, you know, they'd say, Todd and dispatch. Todd Compton: I'd go up there and they'd have a waiter oil change for me. And so now I'm doing oil change. So, I did that and I finished the college, then I I moved back to Charlotte and I went to some of the race teams. And one of the guys that was really good friends with my father, he blackballed me. Jimmy Lea: Oh no. Todd Compton: He did. Yeah. And he said you did not wanna be in this industry. It's 70 hours a week, you know, and it's you know, the guys take the car out, they crash and they come back and they do it all over again. And he says, this is just, I'm not gonna let you in this industry. You're not going, you're not coming in. Todd Compton: All right. You know? And so, I remember talking to several engine builders at the time. There was a company called Hendrick Mer Sports, and it was Hendrick Mer Sports. Those Yates. And so anyway he told me just as long as he was alive, he's not gonna lemme get in and not that he was being, and so as a young man, I'm like, that's kind of messed up, you know? Todd Compton: And and so that's terrible. But I look back on it now and I'm glad he did what he did. Yeah, because around that time I had recently gotten married. I had a young child. And so, he's like, you know, this is not the life for you. Not this time. So, so I came back, Charlotte. Then I started working for a Pontiac dealership doing used cars. Todd Compton: And so, my passion, I started to figure out that electrical work and drivability was really where I started. I started, I had fun at, fun doing. Well, let me pre preface that by when I was in Col I forgot I went to Colorado for a couple years, so, actually that's where I met my wife. And that's right. Todd Compton: 'cause I ca I, I graduated school went in the military, came back, Charlotte, then decided to move out to Colorado and 'cause yeah, race was not going, it wasn't do anything here for me. So that's what I Colorado to, and I went out to Colorado from a Toby Keith song. And when I was living in Nashville and we talked about moving out west, you know, where there's women in gold and things like that. Todd Compton: I'm like, you know, I'm gonna go out west. And so, alright. And the first dealer trip I worked for, the service manager hired me on like a Thursday and then he said, go ahead and move my box in on Saturday. And so I get my box moved in. I show up Monday morning. Service manager was fired that Friday. Todd Compton: And so the service director, he's like, who are you? What are you doing here? Jimmy Lea: Right. You're a new guy. Todd Compton: Well, I was hired, yeah. So they gave me a bay with they gave me one bay no lift. Oh, see. And so, the only thing that I could do was al. And so, so I started doing electrical work. I starved. I starved. Todd Compton: And fortunately it was a dealership back. They had two chips. So I'd get there at seven 30 in the morning, work, sometimes 10 at night. And and try to, and just trying to learn. So anyway, so then I meet my wife up there and I moved her back to Charles. Yeah. And then that's when I went to work for Pontiac dealership and doing its cars. Todd Compton: Okay. Todd Compton: I did that for about a year. And a Chevrolet dealership that I applied at when I started. When I came back to Charlotte they had drivability spot open and so they they asked me if I wanna come work for 'em. So, that's what I wanted to do. So that's what I did. And so, I worked at dealership for nine years and I became Wow. Todd Compton: Master a SC certified GM Master certified. And I got bored. I got bored. Oh yeah, because you look at a ticket and you already knew what was wrong with it. Todd Compton: It was just, it was pattern failures. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And, and you were seeing, so you were seeing the same job, the same cars. Todd Compton: Correct. Jimmy Lea: The same everything over and over again. You're like, oh my gosh, I could do this in my sleep now blindfolded. Correct. Correct. Gimme something else. Todd Compton: Correct. Yes. And so, about let's see, probably about in year 2000 I met a a good friend. Todd Compton: I met this guy and he had a. Storage unit that he worked out of doing side work. And so he and I gotta talking. In fact he brought his truck to the GM dealership for some warranty work. And the way the bays were set up was, you know, people could walk right, right outside the bays, you know, and I was right, the service drive. Todd Compton: So he saw me pull his truck in. He started, he struck the ation swimming and we started talking in. And so, he tells me. He comes ever. And then, and his wife brings her vehicle in and she, you know, so we started developing a, you know, friendly relationship. And I come to find out, you know, he works on cars at nighttime, you know, he's a building superintendent during the daytime, then he works cars at night. Todd Compton: And so, I ended up, he and I started working together outta the storage unit and we worked really well together. And so I've worked there. Really seven days a week. I leave the dealership at five 30 and then I had it set up at that storage unit where we had a refrigerator. We had electric. Todd Compton: Electric grill. Yeah, we had a microwave. And so we, and then we cooked dinner and then still keep on working. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Todd Compton: And then of course, now, by this time I have two kids. Jimmy Lea: I was gonna say, yeah, you're still a young married couple. You got probably a couple kids there at home. Todd Compton: Yeah. Yeah. And so, there were plenty of nights where I would leave in the dark and I'd come home in the dark. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Todd Compton: And I would see my kids right. You know, my wife would just leave me a note, said, Hey, there's a plate in the stove. So I missed a lot of time with my kids around that time. And so, but what I was missing, what I was wanting to learn was. Again, going back to the pattern failures, you know, I was working on newer cars. Todd Compton: It got boring. I'd done everything I could do at the dealership. Yeah, as much as I could do. And I wanted more. I just wanted more. And so the only way I could do this, you know, I took in some, the most junk cards, you know, and, you know, we didn't have a lift and some vehicles, we had to deflate the tires, get 'em, roll 'em in, roll them in into the storage unit. Todd Compton: And sometimes we work out in the rain. You know, I remember working on a Cadillac STS and it started pouring out rain. I'm doing a tuneup on it, and I got rain falling down in the back of my jeans, you know? And going in places where you don't want it to go. Jimmy Lea: Right. Todd Compton: So I did this for about four years, and my wife, she, you know, it was, initially, it was seven days a week, then it was you know, six days a week. Todd Compton: And she says, you know what? She goes. You cut down to five days. I did. And then finally it got to the point where I started building a little bit of reputation. And and so I remember asking my wife, I said, you know, are you ready to, I remember sitting in the kitchen with my wife and I said are you willing to lose everything we've got? Todd Compton: And I said, I'm ready to go into business with myself. And so, I was so naive, very naive. And I you know, I even asked my buddy that he and I worked together to chop together with, he, he was not prepared to make that jump. He was comfortable doing what he was doing. You know, he had the the security of healthcare you know, steady paying job, you know, retirement, stuff like that. Todd Compton: He just was not ready to let that go. So. I was I had money saved up a money market. I cashed all that in. I bought a few pieces of equipment and found a place to rent. And and June 20 June 21st thousand five, I opened the doors. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Todd Compton: And so that's kind of how, that's the journey that kind of got me into the independent world is really, it all came down to boredom and Oh, yeah. Todd Compton: Wanting more. Jimmy Lea: June 21st, the summer solstice. Ah any relation there of you opening June 21st or just happens to be a Wednesday or whatever it was? Todd Compton: The only, only connection to that was I started at the dealership June 1st, 1996. I'm sorry, June 21st, 1996. I wanted to complete, I wanted to finish it nine years. Todd Compton: June 21st, 19, you know, 2005. So that's kind of the, that's kind of the that, that's significant of the date. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Todd Compton: I my shop foreman and service manager at the dealership, you know, they could have just really ruined me, but I had, I told them three months in advance what I was wanting do, because I had to, I still needed a job, but I still need to handle looking at buildings. Todd Compton: I still need to handle getting a lift put in. I still needed to handle. The attorney you know, getting my the S corp set up. So there's all these things I still had to get set up and I, but I still need to maintain some income. And so they were, I mean, they could have told me, you know what, just, you know, just leave now, you know, but I, they did, you know, so that I worked out the full three months and that they allowed me to do it, you know, and so I'm very grateful for those guys. Todd Compton: And the funny thing is this, my service manager is actually now one of my customers. Jimmy Lea: That's great. That's awesome. Todd Compton: So, so that's kind of how I got into the independent world. I love that. Long story. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Long story. There is no short version to that. That's pretty dang cool, man. Jimmy Lea: Congrats and thank you for your service in the armed services. Even in the thank you eyes of conflict. You jump right in the fray to say, I send me coach, put me in, I can take care of this. That's super awesome. I appreciate that. So what does the shop look like today and is this the same that it was when it, when you started June 21st or have you expanded? Jimmy Lea: What does it look like? Todd Compton: So, my very first shop was a is a 1800 square foot building. It had one bay door on one side and one bay door on the other. And it was in a row of. About 10 units, all about the same. They're all 10 units. Were right at 1800 square feet. Like a Jimmy Lea: strip mall? Or was it a more commercial? Jimmy Lea: More commercial. Todd Compton: Okay. It was right by the airport. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Yep. So it was like, Todd Compton: Yeah, I mean, like the pe like the building behind me was US Air, and they had. Their their tugboat, their tug, I'm not sure what we call them the tug, the pushers and stuff. They'd keep those there and they'd kind have mechanic chop in the air. Todd Compton: Next to me was a was a trucking company that was in another building. Todd Compton: And like in, in the strip building that I was in one guy fabricated things for lawnmowers. He welded titanium and aluminum and stuff like that then. Todd Compton: And another guy like another two doors down hit all he did was he polished the semi-truck gas tankers, you know, you know the tankers you see going down the road that carry liquids or whatever. Todd Compton: He would bring these in and he would, he had ac crew guys and they'd sit there and they'd polish these things and, you know, to where they would just like look like mirrors. Todd Compton: So like I said, it was a pretty industrial area and all brick brown. Yeah. You know, and so I remember July 4th, 2005 to try to stand out because when you looked at the row of buildings, every building looked, I mean, it was just, so you took a building that was a hundred yards long, roughly, or so, and you just had all these brown doors. Todd Compton: Yep. Man, doors were all brown. So it's all L at the same. Jimmy Lea: Same. So yeah, Todd Compton: I was at the very end of one of the buildings. So what I did is I painted my door white. So that way when I was on the phone with anybody and I could tell 'em, you know, say, Hey, I 47 32 West Boulevard, suite eye, just look for the white bay door. Jimmy Lea: Perfect. Todd Compton: And so that way people would know where I'm at. Todd Compton: Yeah. Todd Compton: And so, and I was in that building from June. Oh five to February of oh six, then I moved about a block away to a, another kind industrial area, and I moved up to 4,000 square feet. At this time is when I hired my first employee, when I moved into that building. Todd Compton: And I installed a couple more lifts. And so, I was in that building from two April, 2006 to around April, 2008, and I got kind of pushed outta that building 'cause the airport bought the property. It was privately owned, the airport bought the property. And I remember getting a letter saying that at some point the road will be closed, these buildings will be demolished. Todd Compton: And so, you know, I had to find a place to, to go. So, I was on a test drive and I happened to see a building that was for for lease. And it was just literally, it was just a block away from where I was at. So I'm like, that works. But it was much bigger. It was 7,000 square feet and of course the rent's higher, all kind of stuff. Todd Compton: Higher. I had more exposure to the road, to one of the main roads. So that's important. Jimmy Lea: That's one of the rules of real estate is location. Yeah. Location. Location. So. Yeah. Not a bad move, but 7,000. You're doubling darn here. Todd Compton: Yeah. Yeah. So, I, Jimmy Lea: I I wanna pause you here for one quick second. When you started in June of oh five, how many lifts did you have in that 1800 square feet? Jimmy Lea: One, one lift. And when you went to 4,000 square feet, how many lifts did you have in the building? Todd Compton: I bought, when I moved in that building I bought one more, and then about four. 'cause actually the Lyft guy. Actually, lemme do 90 day financing. So I didn't have the money. Jimmy Lea: Nice. So, Todd Compton: so I bought one lift and he installed that one. Todd Compton: So then once I got that one paid for, he installed the th actually had me third lift. Todd Compton: Okay. Todd Compton: And so, then when I got that paid for, I kind of lifted along a little bit and then I ended up buying a a Midrise a Midrise lived. Okay. That's where I stopped. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Right there. Todd Compton: Okay. Jimmy Lea: So now you moved to 7,000 square feet. Jimmy Lea: How many bays is this? How many lists do you have? How many techs are you now employing at the new location? Todd Compton: So the location I'm at now it's still kind of, it's not like your typical automotive repair shop. It's still warehouse. So people, you don't see the, when you drive up to the front, you don't see the base. Todd Compton: We have five loading docks in the back of the shop. And then we have a drive-in that's, you know, drive-in bay. Todd Compton: Yeah. Todd Compton: And so, in fact, this building used to be for Sears. Sears and Uck. Todd Compton: Yeah. They Todd Compton: used to use it for their, I guess, midterm shipping. You know, they'll bring them from the airport for 'em in this building. Todd Compton: Then they'd ship 'em out to wherever they need to go. Jimmy Lea: Right. It was like a hub. Yeah. And then they send it out. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Follow you exactly. Todd Compton: So. So when you look at the shop, you know, they're not, it's not like your typical shop where, you know, each bay is has a door or something like that, you know. Todd Compton: So the way it's set up is I have I have an alignment rack, and then I have see this 2, 3, 4. So I got one alignment rack, and then four, two post lifts all in a line. And then I have another two post lift kinda off in a corner. So I got five, two post lifts and five, two post lifts. Yes. And then alignment. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. And how many technicians do you have for the the five different lifts? Todd Compton: Three. Jimmy Lea: Three. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. That's very cool. Do you get a lot of work for your alignment rack? Todd Compton: We sell a lot of work in easy alignment rack. Todd Compton: We, before I bought it, we were sub laying a lot of work out to a lot of alignment out to another chop. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Todd Compton: And you know, I gotta say it's probably the most expensive lift in the chop that it gets used to least. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. That's what I've heard. That's what I've heard. Todd Compton: Yeah. So, but you know, it was one of those things where, the guys were hesitant on me. And this goes years back. Yeah. You know, before I really learning how to do certain things, they'd be hesitant to sell front end stuff because then they had to send it out for an alignment, you know? Todd Compton: And so, I think something's got maybe overlooked Todd Compton: Yeah. At the time. Jimmy Lea: Probably. Probably. Todd Compton: Yeah. And and now that we have the equipment, it's like, you know it, now we have different technicians since then. Todd Compton: So, but now I can't say that for certain that's what was happening. Todd Compton: But I got a feeling that, you know if the guys can't complete the job themselves, you know, then why, which it doesn't injustice to the customer. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it totally does. What kind of alignment rack is it? Todd Compton: It's a hundred alarm rack. Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. Have you talked to Mr. Jay Allen? You had him up to the shop, do some training? Todd Compton: Well, he's been to my shop that he has not, yeah, he's not done training here. But, Jimmy Lea: well get your boys trained, get 'em, get all the boys and girls there in the shop, get 'em all trained on that Hunter, hunter alignment rack with Jay Allen. Jimmy Lea: And then when they come back, they're gonna sell a ton more alignment work because now they're comfortable, they've been trained, they understand. Sure. Yeah, Todd Compton: yeah. We're still all three of 'em. Well, at least two of them. Yeah. They're I would say that they have an ego on alignments, but you they have a couple of their own race cars and they set, they, they play around with alignment stuff all the time. Todd Compton: Sure. And so I'm not saying they can't learn anything, not what I'm saying at all. But I'm saying is they are pretty competent. On, you know, looking, sometimes even looking outside the box on getting alignment. Right. You know, not always the fact respect will get something right. Todd Compton: Yeah. Go out and Todd Compton: drive it, and you bring it back and, you know, it's like, all right, man, this needs to be changed up a little bit. Todd Compton: So they're not just they wanna make sure it's right when it leaves. Jimmy Lea: No. That, and that's exactly what everybody wants. Everybody wants to make sure it's right before it leaves. You wanna make sure it's dialed in. It's not just good enough. You want it to be exactly good enough. Jimmy Lea: Not just. So, no, I totally get that, that is awesome. Congrats on your new building too. So, are you in the process of buying this building or are you just gonna stay leasing this building? What's the plan? No, I, Todd Compton: I, I've spoken to the landlord about it and right now he just he likes receiving those checks. Todd Compton: He's not, see I don't think he's retirement age yet, but, okay. He's got multiple in Charlotte. He's got, I mean, that's his main career. Is he owns buildings all throughout Charlotte. Todd Compton: And I've talked to him about buying the building and, you know, his big concern right now, at least right now is the tax hit. And he's like, yeah, right now comfortable receiving. Like, I don't need to sell it. You know, he goes, and if I do sell it, then I'm paying all his tax on it and I get it. I get it. So he didn't say no. Jimmy Lea: Well, and if he puts it in a 10 31 exchange, he can go and buy a car wash or storage units or another warehouse somewhere else. And that's probably the best, quickest and easiest is those warehouses where you've got a company in there. Jimmy Lea: They're gonna use it. They're gonna store stuff in it. They're assembling stuff in it. They're gonna do whatever they do in their warehouse and ship in and ship out. And it's probably easy for 'em, it's probably not a conversation or six to take 'em to lunch, take 'em to dinner, and make sure you've got that first ride of refusal. Jimmy Lea: 'cause you want your name on that? Yeah. Absolutely. Todd Compton: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I, I have not spoken to him about the first Right. Refusal. Refusal, but yet, but you know, he'll come in and just say hello and check in on things and I'll kind of casually talk to him. His name's Craig. Todd Compton: He's like, Hey Craig, you know, you wanna sell this thing to me? And ah, nah, eh, not yet. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, because he could sell the warehouse to you and buy a 12 unit apartment complex, or 24 unit apartment complex. You know, you 10 31 exchange that, and now he's into something else that's making him 3, 4, 5 times what he was making. Todd Compton: It's very, it's very true. Very true. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Well, let me know when you wanna negotiate with him and I'll fly out there and we'll sit down for, got it. Oh, that'd be fun. That'd be fun. Well, congrats on your journey. Congrats on the success of you your businesses. It's a sobering conversation to have at the dinner table with your wife and say, Hey, are you ready to lose everything? I wanna start my own business. What's some of those lessons that you learned very quickly in starting your own business? Todd Compton: Well, I won't say they were learned very quickly tell you that you know, when I remember trying to mathematically think about what I needed to make. Todd Compton: And there's coming from a technician to a business owner. Todd Compton: So many different, I remember taking a notepad thinking, okay, if I bill out, literally, you're probably on these numbers, but I think what I remember is like, alright, if I bill out 11 hours this week at $65 an hour is what my labor rate was. I love it. And I was like, all right, so then I've got rent, I've got power, I've got, you know, and. Todd Compton: I was always putting my own paycheck last. Yeah. I was like, where's leftover is without, you know, then, you know, that first year I kept, I put money into, I kept, I put as much money back into the companies I could. Todd Compton: You know, some of the things I guess that, you know, over the years, you know, I stayed in my own little bubble. Yeah. I still, it took me a while to, to remove myself from the shop and actually run the business, you know, and manage the business. It took me, that's what probably took me so long to figure out to, I got, I had to step outta the shop. Todd Compton: Yeah. I kept getting pulled back in. I kept getting pulled back in and I didn't know my numbers, but that's, yeah. Yeah, being in business for 20 years I guess I'm a, I'm an at tune late bloomer, but you know, for, if I could tell anybody that's starting off, learn the numbers first, you know, understand it because I did not, you know, I, you know, the years of 2020 and 21, 22, I got into a ton of trouble with the IRS, and it was not necessarily completely, and I'm gonna tell you, it wasn't completely my fault. My CPA just didn't file my taxes for three years. Jimmy Lea: Oh, ouch. Todd Compton: Ouch. Ouch ouch. And so, you know, I always thought, you know, I hear you hear on like movies or different things or whatever about, you know, my CPA, you know, you know, they're trying to keep me safe, you know, well, it's, when there, I don't know. Todd Compton: You don't know what you don't know. And I felt that, Hey, as long as I see case, tell me everything's okay. I guess I'm making money, but I didn't know what I was looking at. I had no clue what a PL state looked at. I didn't know what a balance sheet was. I didn't know what cash a cash flow staple was. Todd Compton: I didn't know any of that stuff was. It's like, Hey, okay, CPAs, he's taking care of the books. If he's, if he tees away from me to make more money, then I'm sure he'll let know. But until then, I'm gonna continue on, just turn wrenches and try to do the best I can and make whatever I can, you know, and make whatever I can. Todd Compton: So that was probably the biggest thing for me was, is, continuing on as a technician. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Todd Compton: And not a business owner. So was that quick lesson learned? Not really. You know, because I still enjoyed working on the cars. I still enjoy it, you know, it still allowed me to take my family to, you know, vacations to mountains, take trips, you know, you know, we got involved some go-karts, dirt bikes, you know, bought a little camper. Todd Compton: I mean, so we still had a good kids. Still brought were brought up. Well. But we were never, but we always slight, we always slightly struggled. Oh yeah, I'm sure. And I'm sure if we took some of that stuff out, we would've been okay. You know? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Todd Compton: We were not saying like we were starving, you know, but we were living pretty tight. Todd Compton: But we still, we also wanna put the, those memories in for, you know, us and the kids. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, so it's good that you did that. The kids will remember those trips and those vacations and those overnight camp outs. Todd Compton: Oh, they do. They do. Yeah. They bring it up. They bring it up and so, so for so long I focused on working on the cars and just trying to take care of customers that I had no clue about my finances, none. Todd Compton: And so that's probably. The longest, quickest lesson that I guess I've learned. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and you hit on a point that a lot of shop owners today, that they came up through the shop. They came up through the shop just like you. They worked at a dealership, or they worked at another independent garage, and they got up to a point where they thought, you know what? Jimmy Lea: I want to do this. I wanna be the boss. I wanna be the business owner. Mm-hmm. They're phenomenal technicians they can work on darn near any car any day, time of day. Any anything blindfolded, not a problem. They don't have the same business acumen to run a business as they do to fix a car or to run a car. Todd Compton: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: And so your advice is totally sound and I'll echo it. Get education, get learning. There's so many free resources available on the internet at your chamber of commerce at the community college. They'll teach you go to the small business development. They have classes, courses, all the time to help. Jimmy Lea: The budding entrepreneur that wants to start a business. What do I need to do first? What do I need to understand? And to your point CPAs, there's two kinds. There's one that just takes everything you give them and they file it digitally. They're not looking out for you, they're just putting numbers on paper. Todd Compton: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And two is the kind of CPA that you want. And that's that tax advisor who's gonna say, Hey, you know what, if you do this. You can get this if you buy this piece of equipment at this time not now, but by this time you have these tax advantages. If you wait and hold off till next year to buy that equipment, it's gonna help you. Jimmy Lea: You've got all your tax deductions you need this year. This is something for next year. You that type of a CPA it's a rare breed. Todd Compton: Yeah. And the CPA that I've got now we're. There's still a few piece, few messes that we're still cleaning up from those years. From, Jimmy Lea: from those three years. Todd Compton: Yeah. And so we're not quite there where he can kind of gimme that advice yet. Todd Compton: But you know, I mean, quick example is, you know, the alignment rack. Yeah. Previous CPA did not what's the word I'm looking for? He didn't add it into my, my. Property tax for the county. Oh Jimmy Lea: no. Todd Compton: And so when the new CPA found mistakes course he had to, you know, he had submitted. Todd Compton: Yeah. And so then I got hit for three years for my property taxes. Jimmy Lea: Sure. Money, sure. Todd Compton: Well then I don't know if that, I don't know for certain, but all of a sudden now I'm going through a me a county audit and and so. Wait to see how that's gonna turn out. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So, well, and if ever you have to error, you error on the side of doing what's right, do what's right, and let the consequence follow, no matter what it might be. Jimmy Lea: I, I, if you do what's right, you have that integrity and you stick to it, there's people gonna look out for you. And the universe will come to your rescue. Don't know how, don't know when, don't know where, don't know why, but it will. When you do what's right, and that's what you're doing is fixing past messes. Jimmy Lea: All right. Hey, we'll get this, I gotta get it done, I gotta get done. Right? But yeah, now you're in an audit. So a quick little thing, you know, going from a Todd Compton: technical to business owner. So, so we have a 401k here at the top. Nice. And so, and this is where my the new CPA got me out of. Todd Compton: Really big trouble. I'm, I mean, devastating trouble. So there's a form called a Form 5,500 that you have to fill out as the as the corporate, as the owner, or as the entity. Shows that you're being basically fair on the 401k. And with that what they're kinda looking for is that the, that you're making sure they're making sure that you're offering that 401k to all your employees. Todd Compton: It's just not a tax shelter, just for the you know, their principal owners. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yep. Todd Compton: And so, that form is due on October 15th, I spaced it. Oh, no. And so, it was due October, the one I've done 'em all. I've done the, all the ones prior, but I, you know, so 20, 24 I spaced it later, forgot about it. Todd Compton: And so. I got a letter in January of February of 25, January, February, and so I went and filled out, I said, Todd Compton: i'll go get filled out. I'll get it done. And so, I knew there might have been a fine, you know, I was thinking there was a $750 fine. Well, yeah, if I'd have called the IRS Oh, no, actually it was Department of Labor. Todd Compton: If I called the Department of Labor and disputed my calls, it'd been a seven $50 fine. Todd Compton: But because I went and just filled the paperwork out, sent it on in, it was a $25,000 fine. And ouch. I was like, how, what do I do? Like what do I do? You know, and I'm looking online, figuring out ways to try to get out of it or, you know, I was like. Todd Compton: Punish doesn't fit the crime. Todd Compton: No, I mean, Todd Compton: I mean, I mean, it's not like the r arrest where I'm evading tax. It was like, I just didn't tell the government that. Yeah I'm making sure everyone's got 4K. And so my CPA, I told my CPA about it. He's like, alright, gimme, gimme a couple hours. I'll give it right, right back with you. Todd Compton: And so I don't like to take advantage of natural disasters. This is what happened. He found a clause or a not something that North Carolina did with Hurricane Helene, and that if you end up filing late on your taxes, that the, any penalties would be forgiven. And so, even though we were in an area that was not affected, the way the law was written was that was in North Carolina. Todd Compton: So he submitted the paperwork from North Carolina and it came back and that 25,000 penalty was forgiven. Jimmy Lea: Wow. I, Todd Compton: I was like, oh my gosh. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Todd Compton: So yeah, you go back 20 years and you're working on wrenches. You fast forward. Would you ever think that if I forgot, forget to fill this form, it's gonna cost this money? Todd Compton: Or as a technician, you know, working the dealership? Do I, did I ever think about hr, you know, human resources? Did I ever think about life insurance? Did I think about short term long disability? You know. I mean, none, you know, and so, there's all these things you don't think about. And like short term, long term. Todd Compton: One of my technicians years ago, he was in a, in an accident and he broke his wrist. Not here the shot, but, and, you know, and a wrist is very important when you're working on vehicles. Jimmy Lea: Amen. Yep. Todd Compton: So he had three kids you know, this was he was kinda the breadwinner and now he can't work so. What composition does that put me in? Todd Compton: You know, do I, not only do I lose the technician, but I care about the technician. So I paid him his wage for three months or probably three months. I did not replace him. I ended up going out and doing, trying to work, do the cars, and that cost me a lot of money. I was like, you know, and then finally I was talking to one of my insurance guys. Todd Compton: He's like, you know, if you ever talking about short-term, long-term disability, I was like, no, tell me more about it. And so, when he told me about it and so we picked out the right policy, and again, you're talking about, we're not talking about RES anymore, we're talking about policies. Yeah. And when he comes to this stuff and so, I picked out the top policy. Todd Compton: And so now anytime I hired somebody, ar owned that policy. Well, they like it or not. I, nobody pays for it. So they get short term, long terms of disability because I do not ever wanna be put in a position to where I, I have an employee that may not be able to take care of themselves or their family for income. Todd Compton: With the younger generation, they don't wanna put in their four one k. They don't wanna spend the money on short term, long term. But you know what, it's an investment for me, so I'm gonna spend that money each month, make sure that they're covered. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Your peace of mind is worth more than, whatever they think they want or don't want. Todd Compton: I know that got a little bit of rabbit hole, but I just wanted to share that little tidbit there. Jimmy Lea: No, Todd, that's phenomenal. I love the rabbit holes. I love the way the ways, the means, the areas that we go down and the things we get to talk about. Jimmy Lea: Because who would've thought that wrenching in a dealership 20 years ago that you would've had a form 5,500 that you had to fill out? Almost cost you $25,000. But thank heavens you had a good CPA. Yeah. That did some research and found a loophole for you. Call it a loophole. Call it a saving grace. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You're in the state of North Carolina. You are protected. Oh my word. I mean, that's phenomenal, Todd that's just so cool. I like your advice of getting that education. Do you have any technicians right now that are thinking, Hey, you know, that's entrepreneur bug might be biting? Like you might want to educate them? Jimmy Lea: No they're all Todd Compton: not yet. Alright. Not yet. They, they enjoy, they they're. When we go to training especially like the a CE or a CA, Todd Compton: they're so in tune to the scopes and turbos and stuff like that. I mean, they're, that's just where they're at right now in their life. Todd Compton: You know, that's that's what they desire at the moment. I mean, one technician, I mean, we work, we've talked a little bit about GPS and things like that and he's. Kinda like poking at it a little bit, but probably not enough yet to wanna start training, you know, gonna classes on it yet. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, for sure. Well, when they do, you make sure you educate them because there's so many free resources. I mean, shoot, look at the institute and the YouTube channel for the institute, all that free information, all that data, all that knowledge. Anybody can tap into all that information and knowledge. Jimmy Lea: It's available and it's there. So it's pretty dang cool. I'd love to land this plane here with you, Todd. Now I have one last final question for you. Tell me about tools in schools. Todd Compton: See you better research on me. Huh? So that's tools of Schools is a organization here in Charlotte that that we're trying to. Todd Compton: Educate, educate the young students that there's more to life than going to college. And and that the trades, whether it be automotive, plumbing, electrical hang and air, that those are successful, rewarding trades to get into. Todd Compton: And that, you know, the school systems have taken out the tools, you know, there's no vocational classes anymore, and so. Todd Compton: Until you put a tool in front of a student's hand, a kid's hand, you don't know if they're going, they don't know if they're gonna like it or not, you know? And so what we're trying to accomplish is getting that out there to them, putting a trow in their hand, putting a, you know, little small, you know, butane torch for plumbing in their hand, you know, and you know, sweating out the copper and, you know, putting you know, an impact wrench in their hand. Todd Compton: But, you know, just letting them play around with the stuff. Showing them the the scan tools and showing them you different things, the way they're exposed to it. You know, that maybe one day, you know, as they're trying to determine their career that, you know, it's like, you know, I kind of enjoyed, I kind, that was kind, it kind of seemed interesting to me. Todd Compton: I mean, more into it. And so we're going and talking to students that are, you know, I've spoken to students as low as I think sixth grade. And that's fun. That's interesting. God bless the teachers on that, I'll tell you that. And so, then the ninth, 10th, 11th, yeah. 12th graders. Todd Compton: You can tell the questions that as the, they start touring in age from, well, I don't know, 13 to 17, 18. Todd Compton: That's right. The questions you're gonna start maturing and actually some of the questions that, you know, we get that, that I've gotten. Been interesting when it comes to automotive side and so being, the whole thing was just being in front of them and trying to educate the students and the teachers, you know, that the world's not survive on everybody's gonna be a doctor or a lawyer. Todd Compton: You know, you know, when you got houses that gotta be built, you got, I mean, you, they all have depend on somebody. Pick something. And fixing things is going away, you know, and that human capacity of fixing things or building things. Jimmy Lea: Or the curiosity to take it apart. Todd Compton: Yeah. Yeah. And creativity. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Todd Compton: Yeah. To build things. Yeah. The carpenters, I can't do anything for it, but carpenters, they have an eye for it. And so, and if you're playing video games all day, you're not exposed to it. You'll never know if you've got the eye for it or not. You never know if you could be an amazing carpenter or not, you know? Todd Compton: And so that's what we're trying do. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Thanks for putting tools in schools. So, is Daniel still with you guys? Todd Compton: He is, yes. Jimmy Lea: Nice. How long's he been? Daniel Todd Compton: Daniel's done very well. And he's been with me since he was in high school. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. So he's, was he one of your apprentice? Jimmy Lea: Yes. Nice. Congrats man. That's very cool. And what level technician is he now? Todd Compton: If he hears this, he's gonna be a a plus. Todd Compton: He's he's a good between a, a, b and a. Nice. He still, he's still got some learning to do. But he has done I mean at this point it just seems get some experience and get some things are they kind of challenge him very hardly, you know, to, for him to, you know, to start moving on up a little bit. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. Totally agree To be an expert. It takes at least 10,000 hours. 10,000 hours is at least five years. And where you were at the dealership at nine years, you were almost twice the expert. Yeah. Daniel's got a little ways to go. He's got four years under his belt, so he's up there. Yep. And we just need to keep challenging him so he doesn't get bored. Jimmy Lea: That's right. Yeah. Very cool, Todd. Well thank you very much man. I really appreciate you spending some time with me today. Todd Compton: Absolutely. It's fun. Jimmy Lea: Thank you. We'll talk to you again soon. Todd Compton: Alright, take care.

173 - Trust Your Gut: How Levi & Sally Built Arvu Auto to Three Locations (and Counting) November 18, 2025 - 00:42:39   Show Summary: Growing up in a tight knit Finnish farming community, Levi Hendrickson learned to fix equipment out of necessity long before he ever turned a wrench in a shop. He shares how that background, plus time in the North Dakota oil fields and a hydraulic shop, led him back home to start his own business and eventually co own ARVU Auto with his wife, Sally. Levi walks through buying the first Cokato location, building a new ground up facility, and expanding into Watertown and Long Lake with a goal of eight shops in eight years. He explains how culture, family values, and clear expectations shape his acquisition criteria and day to day leadership. From providing full shop tools for young techs to helping employees pay down tool truck debt, Levi is intentional about removing barriers to entry for new technicians. He talks about the importance of building depth so each location can function without him turning wrenches every day. Levi also reflects on the impact of coaching from The Institute and Wayne, especially around vision, clarity, and calm leadership. Looking back, the advice he would give his younger self is simple but powerful: trust your gut and keep moving forward.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Levi Hendrickson, Owner of Arvu Auto   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Levi shares the meaning behind the name ARVU Auto and how he and his wife Sally come from strong Finnish communities. [00:03:33] – Growing up on a farm taught Levi to fix equipment early, including a memorable lesson about safety when wheels came off a neighbor’s semi. [00:08:34] – His first job in the Twin Cities gave him a mentor who helped him apply his college training to real diagnostic work. [00:10:17] – After working in the North Dakota oil fields, Levi returned home, built a client base, and eventually bought his first shop. [00:12:05] – ARVU’s new Cokato building features a drive-through truck bay, multiple lifts, an alignment rack, and expanded office space. [00:16:57] – Levi outlines the path to three locations and their long-term goal of eight shops in eight years. [00:18:33] – Acquisition criteria have shifted toward shops with strong teams and healthy culture, not just good pricing. [00:21:22] – With three stores, Levi is focused on filling capacity, improving efficiency, and strengthening processes before acquiring more. [00:26:01] – ARVU provides full shop tools for new techs and builds clear career paths using tracked performance and guided training. [00:28:33] – Levi supports techs by helping reduce tool debt and focusing on long-term employee stability and growth.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friend. Good to be with you again here, Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. You are listening to the Leading Edge podcast, and my guest today is Levi Hendricks, and he is co-owner of ARVU Auto, Levi and Sally Hendrickson. Levi, how are you brother? Levi Hendrickson: Good. How about yourself, Jimmy? Jimmy Lea: Oh, fabulous. Thank you very much. And Arvu what does Arvu mean? Levi Hendrickson: Ar vu is value in finish. So translates to value. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And so who's Finnish in your family? Levi Hendrickson: Both me and my wife are. Jimmy Lea: Oh, awesome. That's cool. Are you doing some family history that you're learning these family roots or what's, how do you know this? Levi Hendrickson: The community we grew up in, both in very strong Finnish communities and, very large you know, with our faith and, you know, it's very much the same demographic. So. Jimmy Lea: Nice. That's very cool. How did you meet your wife? Levi Hendrickson: I met her through a friend that was dating a friend you know, his now wife was friends with Sally, and met through that way. Levi Hendrickson: Ended up skiing the whole day together and on our kind of first date, so, Jimmy Lea: wow. Skiing on a first date, was it a blind date? Set Levi Hendrickson: up? Yeah, kind of, but not really. It was my buddy's now wife asked if anyone else wanted to go skiing with the three of us for the day, and she she said, sure I will. Levi Hendrickson: And we hit it off from there, so. Jimmy Lea: Well, good for you. Congrats. How long you been married? How long you been together? Levi Hendrickson: Well it'll be 11 years January. So. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations. That's awesome. Levi Hendrickson: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: And you guys have children? Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. We just in March. We just had our first baby boy. Jimmy Lea: Hey, congratulations. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah, thank you. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. My, my baby boy right now is in Brazil. He's 19. He is serving a mission there with the church. And just loving it. Levi Hendrickson: Getting some world travel in Jimmy Lea: world travel developing new language skills just studying a new language and working with the people of Brazil. It's an phenomenal experience. I. Just I, it's very cool. It's very cool what he's doing, so I appreciate him being there. Yeah, Levi Hendrickson: yeah. Yeah. He'll learn a lot of valuable skills for, you know, working with people. Levi Hendrickson: Right. And you know, it's a different dynamic when you have a language barrier and now he'll be able to take them skills back to 'em for the rest of his life. So, Jimmy Lea: that's exactly correct. And you know, these boys, after they come, boys and girls, men and women go on these missions. Mm-hmm. When they come home after two years, 18 months, two years. Jimmy Lea: They are different people. They have grown up, they are now adulting and they do a very good job of adulting. They've had to look after themselves and budget and money and travel and correspondence and oh yeah. It's just so much fun. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So much fun. So, Levi, into your history, into your past, how did you get into the automotive industry? Levi Hendrickson: Well I grew up on a farm. And my dad always fixed cars. So he would kind of do that as a side to the farming. He'd be fixing cars for people and tractors and farm equipment. So I grew up fixing stuff all the time. You know, I was given a little toolbox when I was a kid, so I'd quit stealing his. Levi Hendrickson: That's so true. Yeah. So, so then yeah, spent a lot of time taking things apart. I don't know how many things I put back together as a kid, but I always took 'em apart. So, but yeah, then got through high school and you know, followed a buddy's path to going to college for automotive. Did that and, really kind of just took off with it and had a fairly entrepreneurial mind going up through high school and doing some other businesses then too. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Congratulations. So back to your toolbox. How old were you when you got your first toolbox? Levi Hendrickson: Oh I don't recall. Jimmy Lea: Like, I mean, is this like 5, 6, 7, 8 years old or is this like 11? Jimmy Lea: That's what I Levi Hendrickson: would say, probably around 10. So, some, for whatever reason I didn't trash it, I still have it, so it'll get passed down to to my son David, when, once he starts robbing my tools. So, Jimmy Lea: congratulations, dude. That is super cool. That is super cool. So you got your first toolbox when you were 10 years old, so, and dad was saying this is to preserve my tools and your life. Jimmy Lea: 'cause if you keep taking my tools, I'm gonna kill you. Levi Hendrickson: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good man. So, working on a farm, I, those repairs are almost out of a necessity. The farm equipment's gotta work. It's time to harvest, it's time to seed, it's time to. It has to work. There is no downtime. So your dad working on equipment, was it all his equipment or was this everybody in the community as well? Levi Hendrickson: So a lot of it was our own equipment that we were, you know, fixing, you know, either, whether we didn't do a lot of maintenance. We got good at learning how to fix on the fly. So, you know, we got got good at using a welder and using a torch and learning how to make things work and. Really testing the bene or, you know, testing how far something really could make it. Levi Hendrickson: And Levi Hendrickson: yeah. And then we did do some other maintenance and stuff for some other local people helped them out when they had breakdowns. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, for sure. What's one of your greatest success stories when it comes to a repair that you made as a young man working with your dad? Levi Hendrickson: Oh boy. I guess I don't have anything jumping off the top of my mind as a success. Levi Hendrickson: I had a lesson learned as a very young age. Jimmy Lea: And we call that a success. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Alright. All right. Go ahead. So, I was we're helping a neighbor farmer and me and the neighbor were, we were putting the wheels back on his semi. And I don't remember if we were putting brakes in it or what exactly, but yeah, not too much longer than wheels departed with the semi from the semi going down the road. Levi Hendrickson: So, learned I don't remember what I was, you know, I remember working hand in hand with him on it, but I don't remember the whole details of it. But, you know, just that safety aspect and being diligent with the work that you're doing and making sure that you're checking over everything and get it right the first time. Jimmy Lea: For sure. People's lives are in the balance here, and you gotta make sure that you're taking care of their lives. For sure. Wow. Is that also when you were introduced to the torque wrench or the what's that, what's the wrench called? The big handle that you can set the different pressures on it. Yep. Levi Hendrickson: Yep. That's a torque wrench. Jimmy Lea: Torque wrench, yeah. So is that when you were introduced to the torque wrench? Levi Hendrickson: Yeah, it probably was after that, but, the Torque Ranch was brought out for everything. You start learning what things should be set to and learning the values. So, Jimmy Lea: so true. Jimmy Lea: There's a really good friend of mine, a really good shop, Sherwood down at he and his son their shop is royalty Auto down in St. Mary's, Florida. And they have a rule that when you torque a tire. Then you call for a second torque and somebody comes right behind you to make sure that you did it properly. Jimmy Lea: That's their qc. Levi Hendrickson: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So they call somebody. That's a very good very good procedure. So Jimmy Lea: yeah, very good procedure. Very good to make sure that you are covering yourself. Yeah. So you decided to follow your buddy. You went off to college for automotive. Mm-hmm. And then what happens after you graduate? Levi Hendrickson: So I I got a job working down in the Twin Cities right outta college, actually. I think they even let me go a little early so I could get started instead of doing open shop neighbor to my parents weren't, grew up worked at that shop. So he got me the job down there and actually had a phenomenal mentor that worked at that shop. Levi Hendrickson: He helped me, you know, take all my training and my learning. From college and apply to real life. And, you know, it was it was phenomenal. And we actually ended up just doing an alignment for him today because to, to circle back, that was our third shop that we just bought last year. But we can get more into that later on. Levi Hendrickson: But so yeah, I did worked the rest of the year for that shop and then. I ended up bouncing out to North Dakota, working in the oil fields as a fleet mechanic out there for one of the companies. So I was working on a lot of you know, pickups and semis and stuff of that nature. Levi Hendrickson: And you know, so I was kind of rounding my skills and learning the industry and, you know, where, you know, it helped me decide where I wanted to be in this field of mechanics and, and then I also ended up taking a job at a hydraulic shop out there. So it's more of that farmhand knowledge and stuff of that nature that was applied. Levi Hendrickson: And so then I moved back from there in 2013 and actually started my own company. Jimmy Lea: How long were you in the oil fields there? Was it North Dakota or South Dakota? Levi Hendrickson: Yeah, North Dakota. Okay. For a year and a half. Jimmy Lea: Yeah that's some life lessons you learned real quick. 'cause that's a cold winter. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Well, Minnesota's cold too, but they got some wind out there and That bites. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I was gonna say, North Dakota kind of cuts right through you and Minnesota. I've been there. Yeah. It's cold. But you can wear a nice jacket and you'll be okay. Levi Hendrickson: Yep. Yeah. North Dakota Jimmy Lea: cuts. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Yeah. That it does. Jimmy Lea: So you went straight from the oil fields to starting your own business. Levi Hendrickson: Yep. So I started my own business. I was kind of doing that out of the shop at the Farm Uhhuh. And I was like, oh I'm gonna be a, an adult. I'm gonna go buy a house now that I'm on my own. Well, that don't quite work. So, the bankers don't like you when you don't have a real job in their eyes. Levi Hendrickson: So, there was also then another local shop was looking for help. So I did end up going back to work. For a couple local shops for three years. And then after that I had built enough clientele with my own business and everything that I was able to completely go out on my own. And and then six months later we bought our first shop in town with an established clientele base. Levi Hendrickson: And, you know, then we took off from there. So, Jimmy Lea: congrats. So which of the three locations is your first. Jimmy Lea: Cokato because you've got Cokato, long Lake and Watertown. Levi Hendrickson: Correct. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats. So Cokato first, what's the footprint of that one look like? Levi Hendrickson: So we just actually finished a new ground, ground up build this summer. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Levi Hendrickson: And so we got a 80 by 84 building that we have a drive through Truck Bay in, and then we currently have. Five Ho, or 4, 4 2 posts and alignment rack. And then we got some office space and stuff inside of that, so. Jimmy Lea: Wow, that's big. That's a big building. Mm-hmm. So, and did you, do I understand that you built that on the first property and you demoed the old building? Jimmy Lea: Or did you add on the old building? Levi Hendrickson: So we moved we moved from where we were. We did we bought this lot a couple years ago. So it was a vacant lot on the highway frontage. So we moved about a, I don't know, quarter mile to a, yeah, quarter to a half mile down the road when we moved into this shop. Levi Hendrickson: So, Jimmy Lea: dude, congrats man. That's so awesome. And so you've got a big semi-truck pull through five two posts and alignment rack and office space. Correct. Oh my gosh, dude, that, that is awesome. And how long did you have this location in Cokato before you added the second location? Levi Hendrickson: So it would've been about Levi Hendrickson: five, four to five years. So in 20 in, let's see, what are we, 25 now? So it would've been 20. 23, I think it was that we started our, that we bought our second location. We'd actually prior to that we'd done a rebranding and kind of structured our business for growth to, you know, we had developed our brand and what we wanted to help us identify the direction of growth we wanted to go. Levi Hendrickson: So then we found an opportunity to buy a shop, and, build it up and put, you know, build all of our processes and procedures and vet 'em and test 'em and it worked phenomenal. So it's been great. Jimmy Lea: Oh, good for you, man. That's awesome. So is Long Lake, the second location? Levi Hendrickson: Long Lake is the third location. Levi Hendrickson: Watertown was the second Jimmy Lea: Otter town. And what's the footprint of Watertown? What does that look like? Levi Hendrickson: So Watertown is like. About 6,000 square feet, I think, on that shop. Levi Hendrickson: Dude, that's huge. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. So technically we have way more, we have way more space to grow than we currently are utilizing. Levi Hendrickson: Okay. Levi Hendrickson: We were originally just in a very small three bay small office. Levi Hendrickson: Part of the, there, there's two buildings on the premise. Okay. We were in that, the other tenant that was in the other building moved out. I took over that because I knew we wanted to grow it and it was gonna give us better opportunity. So we we don't currently utilize all of it a hundred percent yet, but we are working on growing into to filling it out. Levi Hendrickson: So, Jimmy Lea: dude, congrats man. That's awesome. So how many bays, how many lifts have you got there in Watertown second location? Levi Hendrickson: Currently we have six hoists. Set up there. So we got a bunch of open space Nice. That we can do flat work on and stuff too, yet that, you know, we can add hoist more as we grow. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Hey, are you doing anything with the ados, ADOS systems? If you've got a lot of space you ever looked at that? Levi Hendrickson: We've kind of looked at it. Both Cokato and Watertown are in a rural market and we don't, we're not seeing the car's volume come through to bring it in and then. We just had a body shop that went full off. Levi Hendrickson: Full into ados in Cokato oh, good. You know, good partner, working partner there. So, we, you know, we'll be happy to use them and they'll be able to do the calibrations for us when we need. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats man. It's good to lock arms with people. 'cause that's how you really elevate and mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: You, you're not competition. You're, you are friends in the business and let's work together. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I love that. How long did you then have Watertown before you added Long Lake? Levi Hendrickson: That would've been about a year and a half. Jimmy Lea: That's what I was gonna say. It was pretty quick. After getting your second location, you decided for a third, so what prompted the third? Jimmy Lea: 'cause if the other two were rural are is Long Lake more? Residential more urban. Levi Hendrickson: Urban? Yeah. It is a direct high suburb of the Twin Cities. So in 22 before we bought another shop, we said we were gonna do eight shops in eight years. So that was our part of our big growth strategy that we wanted to go with our rebranding. Levi Hendrickson: Love it. The. We had a connection to the Long Lake. We knew new ties, and when it was coming up for sale, we decided that we would just move on it. Maybe it was a little early. But it's it's learning, right? And it's learning what to do, what not to do as we continue to grow and remembering just to keep moving forward with it and you know, keep the positives going of it. Levi Hendrickson: So. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it, dude. Congrats man. What is the footprint of Long Lake look like? Levi Hendrickson: So Long Lake is is our smallest facility. I don't remember square footage wise, but it is five it's four bays, five ho and then one of them being alignment rack as well in a small office area with the waiting room and stuff. Levi Hendrickson: So, still has great capability and ability for capacity. So it's just working on maximizing footprint and everything there. So. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats, man. So, in the future, as you're looking for more shops in the area, what are you looking for? What is that ideal client that gets your attention? Levi Hendrickson: Well, so we've kind of shifted on that, and so right now our first what we went to was more of a price point that was affordable, didn't really have much for employees. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Had Levi Hendrickson: equipment, had some, you know, good reputation in the community, right? So. So that worked good, but it turns into a real long game and it takes a lot of my time and it takes a lot of manpower to get it staffed up and do that, so, got it. Levi Hendrickson: We're gonna start shifting more into looking for probably more of the, an older owner that has good employees that we can, we could make more of a seamless transition into. You know, and I think culture is gonna be a big thing for our what we're looking for in the guys. We're not, you know, if it's, you know, if the culture in the shop that we're looking at buying is not good, we know that the employees that are there probably won't turn out to be very retentive to the way we're gonna run it. Levi Hendrickson: And the, you know, the family style. Getting everyone together, get rid of the gossip, you know, just, you know, kind of, you know, make it a fun place to work and make it so it's enjoyable for everyone. So, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah, that's important. The company culture goes so far, it's so important. Do you think you could buy a company with a bad culture and repair it? Jimmy Lea: Or is it best to just steer around it? Levi Hendrickson: I mean, it's. Possible. It probably would take someone with a lot higher s psychology background than myself might take my wife, Sally, getting in there and digging deep and, you know, and ultimately I think it, it just it would depend because there could be one bad apple in the group that's turned everything sour and you could get rid of one bad apple and it could turn around. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. So very true. I think it would all depend on the, the group as a whole and what we could determine everyone's individual status would be. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It's true. So you would almost take it in a case by case scenario? Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Yeah. I think we would have to you know, there might be a time we get down the road where it's, where we can figure out how to do bulk buys and deals and figure out how to deal with 'em, but not quite there yet. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome, man. Congrats. Congrats on the expansion. You're growing in some fast leaps and bounds even do you have any shops that are in your crosshairs, anybody that you're looking at that might be up next? Levi Hendrickson: Nothing. Nothing's on the radar right now. You know, I think we're. We kind of talked that we were going to play a little reserved and build our shops, fill the capa the buildings we got, build our capacity, build our efficiency. Levi Hendrickson: Because we know how to do a startup. We know how to do a one service writer, two technician shop like the back of our hands. You know, I need to learn how to, you know, turn these into 10, 10 bay shops and stuff. And there's a lot more that goes on. And involved, you know, marketing and employees and how your workload is in a much bigger facility. Levi Hendrickson: And so that's what we wanna work on, building it. And then by doing that, we'll also solidify our branding side of things and how we're doing it, and what's working. So that way when we do go into another facility. We have that already packaged up and we can just plug and play and hit the ground running. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. And I love that you are taking a minute. You almost call it a breather. You're taking a knee, you're working on process procedures. You're working on that live document with your employees to make it more productive, more efficient, more simple easy to understand so everybody can grab a hold of it and really adopt it as part of their company and culture. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Yep. And it's yeah you have to have the buy-in of your employees. And I don't necessarily know that I like the word buy-in, but like, they have to fit it. Right. And they have to, it has to be second nature to them. And you know, 'cause when they do that, you know, it, all that starts in the back starts for me. Levi Hendrickson: Leadership goes into them. That just trickles out the door into the community and our customers and, you know, just makes a much better experience. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Speaking of leadership, what does leadership mean to you? Levi Hendrickson: So, showing and, you know, and showing the proper way of doing it and assisting the people. Levi Hendrickson: You know, that are around me, not, you know, we're not from the back pushing and saying, you know, trying to slave driver, you know, leading, pulling from the front, giving them the assistance they need to be able to do what they want and, you know, feel included within the argu team. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I love that. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Yeah. I'm hearing you say that you bring the team together, you're part of the team, you're in the mix, pulling together with the team. You're not out in front saying, come on, pull it this way. You're not back at the back cracking a whip saying, all right, we're going that way. You're in the fray. Jimmy Lea: You're in the mix with everybody. That's pretty dang cool. So how often do you find yourself working in the business? Turning a wrench, pushing a broom. Too much, right? Daily? Yeah. Yeah. Levi Hendrickson: Yes it is it has been too much In the last year we bit off way more than we could chew and struggled with some some employee shortages. Levi Hendrickson: And that's part of the reason why we want to build depth within all of our locations so that way when someone's gone, it's not a fire that I have to be there or filling in for 'em. So just trying to build that depth. And yeah, so it's pretty much every day. And we got a lot of, obviously with a, with growth like that, you have a lot of young employees. Levi Hendrickson: You have, you know, to you and the company. So you're constantly working with your values and your culture and training them to make sure everything's going, how it should be. So, yeah, a lot of day-to-day stuff still happening to keep the boat rudded in the right direction. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's exactly right. And you've gotta build a bench. You've gotta build people that you can fall back onto and say, okay, this person left you're first on the bench. Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you ready? And you find that right person that comes in and fits your company, fits your culture. Jimmy Lea: What do you do for those new employees that come in and they're the, you're their first job straight outta school or you're their first job in town that they've come in working with you. What do you do for their career path? Levi Hendrickson: So, you know, we try to get 'em some hands-on training, you know, as much training as we can. Levi Hendrickson: To see where they need 'em. You know, we use A-A-D-B-I system that can track their time and how long it takes to do the jobs. And then I can use that to to assess where they're struggling with if I'm not in that shop all the time. So then I can go and work with them one-on-one in certain situations or, you know, we can say, okay, we're not gonna give you that job. Levi Hendrickson: Until you can work with someone else in the job on it, you know, train and shadow a little bit more with it. The real young guys that you know, don't have any tools or anything. We have shop tools. We have a full set of tools in every shop. So every, you know, you can come in to our shop and you don't need any tools as a young guy, and we have everything for you. Levi Hendrickson: To be able to do everything as a gs you know, and be able to proficiently do the job too. So, and if it's something you want to get into, you know, then we will, we'll go from there and develop a path for you. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. So do you have a tool allowance for your technicians or how does a brand new GS start to build their toolbox? Levi Hendrickson: So, I guess we haven't really. You know, I just keep buying stuff and putting stuff in it. So it's kinda what you know, is what we've done. Right. You know, and you know, if they, if it's something that they want to keep going, we will probably just buy a whole nother cart and another set of tools and just say, here you go. Levi Hendrickson: You know, these are shop tools. Just use them. If you find something that you think you have to have that's not, you know, sure, go ahead and buy it. But otherwise we're trying to buy all the tools at the shop. We're trying to change that part of the industry that, you know, there's no other, as my plumbers are down in the shop working, you know, cha putting some oil lines and some some plumbing lines in, you know, their guys don't have it. Levi Hendrickson: They're not buying anything more than maybe $500 in pools or something that, a couple drills if even anything. Right. You know? So the company buys all of it. So why? You know? So we're trying to change that part of the industry for ourselves and what we can do and help these younger guys coming in. And just because there's. Levi Hendrickson: It's not something we really agree with and how this industry went so Jimmy Lea: well, and I love that you are buying the tools for your technicians and something that I used to do I had a business that I ran for a while, house cleaning, yard care and handyman business. And it was constantly, tools would go missing, tools would fall off the truck, tools would, whatever. Jimmy Lea: They were just constantly being misplaced. And so I, I bought a drill, a DeWalt, and I said to my handyman, I said, Hey, look, this is your drill. This is company property, and if you stay with me for 12 months, then at the end of 12 months, this is your drill. Levi Hendrickson: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: That was the best kept drill of all the equipment on that truck. Jimmy Lea: And he was with me for 12 months and I said, congrats here. This is your drill now. Congrats. This is yours. Yeah. Take care of it. And so maybe that's an idea that in the automotive industry, we can adopt this idea that says, Hey look, I'm gonna invest 1000, 2000, $3,000 into this toolbox. So if you stay with me for two or three years. Jimmy Lea: By the end of those two or three years, that is your toolbox. You own it and you write up some documents, some paperwork, they sign it, you sign it, and Levi Hendrickson: there you go. That keeps, that, Jimmy Lea: keeps 'em with you as part of the team mm-hmm. For two or three years because they want toolbox and by, and that toolbox will be very well taken care of. Jimmy Lea: It won't become the junk drawer, it will be well taken care of. And at the end of two or three years now they own it. And thank you. Yeah. You, Levi, thank you to Arvo for helping that technician start to build up their toolbox. Levi Hendrickson: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, it's a fabulous idea. And you know, we're still a little loose around some of them stuff, so we probably just. Levi Hendrickson: Wing it and there wouldn't be any paper and we'd go, Merry Christmas that three years or something like that. You know, that's generally how we operate and, you know, try to get the technicians we've done a lot of Christmas bonuses to the truck tool trucks to help some of these guys pay off their tool debt and Oh, that's awesome. Levi Hendrickson: Get out of that tool that to help free up their life. Jimmy Lea: And they're tools that they need. There's tools that they need for the industry, tools for the trade. They definitely need 'em. And those tools that they're buying off the Snap-on truck, the Mako truck, they are lifetime warranty, lifetime guarantee tools. Jimmy Lea: So anytime down the road, if they were to buy some chance, break it, it gets replaced. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. You gotta love that. That's very cool. So you talk about eight locations in eight years. It sounds like you're three or four years into this, you've got three locations. Are we still looking for eight and eight? Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. We're gonna still stay on that path. So, Jimmy Lea: hello. Yeah. Levi Hendrickson: So, and I think it's one of them things, once you learn the processes, you get 'em all built, you get the team under you it is gonna help it go much faster. You know, and we're probably gonna have a couple lull years where we don't do a whole lot, but we might pick up a two or three bay in one year, or a two or three shop package deal in one year, or, you know, and you know, that might be the direction we go, but I mean, who knows? Levi Hendrickson: Maybe we'll get to, we'll get through three and get into five and pull our hair out and say, you know what? This is our sweet zone. This is where we feel comfortable, you know. Not, you know, the goal is to go to eight. We're gonna try push through that, but we'll see what you know, you gotta be able to feel and see the balance in there as you're going and realize that, you know, you gotta keep that balance for work and life and, you know, totally agree. Levi Hendrickson: Keep everyone happy. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. You've gotta set that goal that says, this is where we're going, this is where we're shooting for. And if you get to five and you're like, Ooh, sweet. This is cool. We're good. Or you get to five and you go, oh my gosh, this is so easy. If the deal's right, we're gonna buy it. Jimmy Lea: Buy it. Don't buy it. Yeah. And you've got it down. I wonder if it becomes that process where like, like with children, they say that your first child's like a handbag and your second child becomes luggage. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. So Jimmy Lea: you and your wife, one for you, one for her. You can handle it. It's not that. Jimmy Lea: Ominous, if you will. Yeah. By the third child. The third child becomes a trunk and it becomes huge. It becomes big. And this is like the location where you are right now. You have three locations, three children that you're helping along, and then once you get four and five and six, it's just another mouth to feed. Jimmy Lea: It's not that big of a deal. You plug in your process, you plug in your procedures, and you just keep going and going and pretty soon you look up and you go, oh, hey, look at that. We got a basketball team, we got a football team, we got a baseball team. We've gone from five to nine to 12. Okay. Jimmy Lea: No, we're good. Let's keep going. Levi Hendrickson: Yep, yep. Well, and then too, as time goes on, they start supporting and helping. Helping each other out. Right. So yeah, the early stages, everyone's learning and developing on their own. And you know, as after everyone's done, you know, developing themselves and getting to where they need to be. Levi Hendrickson: Well, now we can. We can help some of them other people get developed and bring them up and it's gonna bring everything up. So, Jimmy Lea: oh, I love it. I love it, bro. That's awesome. And it, imagine this scenario here. You've got 10, 12, 20, 30, 40, 50 locations, the opportunities that's gonna provide for technicians to grow and come up in the business. Jimmy Lea: Now you want to talk about a career path. You're gonna come on as a general service technician, and then we're gonna teach you and train you, and then you're gonna be a c technician. We're gonna help you. We're still assist. And you'll be a B technician and then an a technician. And now you're gonna become a shop foreman. Jimmy Lea: And once you're past a shop foreman, now you're gonna be a regional director, regional manager. You'll have three or four locations that you're managing and growing. And then, so there's so much that can be done. So much opportunity for growth for a guy who comes out of high school, comes out of college and starts by turning a wrench and being that general service technician, you are able to really put out a path in front of them that they can see it, they can smell it, they can feel it, they can taste it, that says, oh my gosh, this is gonna be amazing. Jimmy Lea: I am gonna stay here with RVU as much as I possibly can 'cause we are gonna build this business. It's gonna be the best there is in Minnesota. Levi Hendrickson: Yep. Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, a lot of these young people do wanna see the route. You know, I hear all the time of young guys leaving their job and they're, and some of these people do exit interviews, and they're like, well, we just, you know, I didn't see where I was gonna go. Levi Hendrickson: Or they're like, well, here's where you could've gone. And they're like, as an owner, you failed your employee because you didn't tell 'em that, you didn't lay it out for 'em. You didn't show 'em the. Show 'em the path of, to their success, you know, without them knowing that it's just day to them. Levi Hendrickson: So, Jimmy Lea: and they can't guess You've gotta tell 'em mm-hmm. That you're leaving it up to their imagination. They're gonna create the scenario that fits their imagination. And it's probably not anywhere near or anywhere close to what you actually have in mind because you do want them to succeed. Jimmy Lea: You do wanna see them successful in life. Career wise and family wise and personally wise and spiritually, you want to see them develop and learn and grow. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah, definitely. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Man you've got such a great opportunity. You've got such a great foundation. I can see here where Wayne's your coach, right, with the institute. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Correct. You got anything good to say about Wayne? Levi Hendrickson: I mean, Wayne's I mean, Wayne sees something in us, so, you know, he definitely wants us to succeed. And you know, he makes sure that he connects with us and you know, it's, yeah it's all great. And I don't know. I mean, he's sticking with us even through his move within the company and you know, so it'll be fun. Jimmy Lea: I say that tongue in cheek because I think the world of Wayne, I think he does a phenomenal job. I think that the shops that he works with, like you, he sees that potential in you. He knows it's there and he's gonna help work with you to bring it to fruition. It's gonna, it will rise to the top. Keep working with Wayne 'cause he will definitely get you there. Jimmy Lea: I think the world of Wayne, I think he's doing a phenomenal job for the institute as well. Mm-hmm. So it's almost like he's a coach for a coaching company as the CEO Wayne's doing a yeah, a Cracker Jack job, man. He's awesome. We're absolutely loving it. Loving it. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Ron that's part of his position, right? Levi Hendrickson: To be a coach and to lead and so yeah, a phenomenal man for the job. So. Jimmy Lea: He is. He is, and he is doing a great job coaching us. He's doing a great job. Cheerleading us. He's doing a great job. Painting the picture of the future, what it's gonna look like, how we're gonna get there, what the air's gonna be. Jimmy Lea: Crisp. It's clean. Easy to breathe. Oh yeah, man it's so much. Yeah, so much fun. Love it. Levi Hendrickson: Paint paints the whole picture. Jimmy Lea: He does. You have to do that with clarity. And be precise in it and do it calmly. You can't let emotions take over. So I think does a great, that's, Levi Hendrickson: yes, that's very challenging. Levi Hendrickson: That takes a lot of patience and clarity just makes me think, you know, you just, you gotta speak some of that stuff to the mirror a few times, so that way, you know, it sounds clear in your head, but it don't always come out clear. So. Levi Hendrickson: Rehearse. Rehearse. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How many times have you said something and at the end of it you go, you know, that sounded better in my head, but now that I've said it out loud, let me come back. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, definitely. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it happens. It happens. Well, Levi you have a phenomenal shop. You have phenomenal locations. I just think the world of what you're doing, I think Minnesota is such a beautiful, ripe area for you to grow your business and grow. Grow yourself personally, your family. Your business. Jimmy Lea: It is just phenomenal. If you were to have, Levi, if you were to have a magic wand and you can't wish for more wishes, but you can make a wish, what would you change in the industry? What would you change in your life? What would you change in your business? What would you change? What's your one wish? Levi Hendrickson: Oh boy. I see something, I feel like Levi Hendrickson: magic wand, I don't, you know, that's hard because I feel like it's gotta be something with family because it all strives from the family. But, you know, we've been very happy. We've been very blessed and, you know, I say, you know, so I just, I guess. I hope the good fortune goes with us on our family side and, you know, and that'll, you know, trickle down through our business and going forward. Levi Hendrickson: So, Jimmy Lea: bless you. Bless you, and bless your family brother. That is awesome. I applaud you for thinking of your family with your one wish that Congratulations. Levi Hendrickson: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: I'm gonna follow that up with one more question here for you, Levi. If you were to be able to stand next to yourself today, and you are starting, you just moved back from North Dakota, back to Minneapolis. Jimmy Lea: No, not Minneapolis. You're in Minnesota. You moved back to Minnesota. What advice would you give yourself starting today in the businesses that you're starting, as with now? What advice would you give yourself? Levi Hendrickson: Well, I would say just, you know, trust your gut. Go, you know, don't you know, everything's meant to happen, right? So just don't trust your gut and keep going with it. Right. And then, you know, and that's how we still continue to live. And I think, you know, and then you don't, you're not fighting yourself on decisions or anything of that nature. Levi Hendrickson: So Jimmy Lea: trust your gut and your gut's gonna tell you the right thing to do. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Nice. I like that. That's good. That's good advice. So that advice is applicable in, when it comes to starting your business, expanding your business, looking at other locations trust your gut with something feels like it's wrong, it's probably wrong. Levi Hendrickson: Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Jimmy Lea: That's sound advice, brother, that, that's really good sound advice, Levi, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Levi Hendrickson: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: Well, and as you know, we here at the Institute, we're all about building a better business for you, results in a better life, and a net result, if we all have a better business and we all have a better life, then we're all going to experience a better industry. Jimmy Lea: That's our desire here at the Institute. That's my desire in working with shops all across North America, is to build a better industry. And I'm glad to be partnered with you, Levi, as we lock arms together, make sure nobody's left behind. Levi Hendrickson: Thank you, Jimmy. We're glad the institutes took us in and helped us helped us do that, so. Jimmy Lea: Awesome. Thank you so much, Levi. I really appreciate the time, man. Thank you very much. Levi Hendrickson: Sounds good. Yeah, thanks Jimmy.

172 - Three Locations and a Whole Lot of SOPs with John Lascuola at LMW Auto Repair November 20, 2025 - 00:42:47   Show Summary: This conversation follows how LMW Auto Repair grew from John Lascuola’s dad working out of a home garage in the 1980s to a three location multi shop operator (multi shop operation) in Maryland. John shares how his father, mother, and brother held down a tiny three bay shop for nearly 30 years before he joined in 2020 to focus purely on systems, branding, and marketing during COVID. He walks through the aggressive timeline of finding a “unicorn” second location in Eldersburg, keeping and upgrading the original Randallstown store, and then adding a third shop in Owings Mills. John explains how consolidating everything into one shared drive, creating 50 to 60 SOPs, and adding QR code training on equipment made growth repeatable and easier on his people. They dive into the realities of family business, including when someone you love should not be in a certain role and how to balance loyalty with what is best for the company. John introduces the LMW Community Foundation, which gives away repaired vehicles to people in need, funds the work with company profits and donations, and hosts youth volunteer events and car care classes. He closes by talking about his wish to understand people more deeply so he can communicate better and lead his growing team with clarity and empathy.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): John Lascuola, Owner of LMW Auto Repair   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Jimmy introduces guest John Lascuola of LMW Auto Repair, a family business now operating three Maryland locations. [00:01:35] – John shares how his dad started fixing cars out of their home garage before opening the first official shop in the late 1980s. [00:05:33] – He explains why he’s heavily reinvesting in the original Randallstown store so it becomes their flagship location. [00:07:34] – John talks about joining the business in 2020 and focusing entirely on systems, organization, and marketing rather than wrenching. [00:10:30] – The Eldersburg “unicorn” building appears in late 2020, leading to a rapid close and grand opening in May 2021. [00:11:19] – John details staffing and bay counts across all shops and why he plans to pause expansion at three to strengthen processes. [00:16:04] – He breaks down how 50–60 SOPs and QR-coded equipment training made onboarding simple and operations consistent. [00:21:13] – John gives candid advice on the realities of family businesses and having hard conversations about who should wear which hats. [00:30:06] – He introduces the LMW Community Foundation, which has already given away more than a dozen vehicles to people in need. [00:39:59] – John shares that his magic-wand wish would be the ability to understand people better so he can communicate and lead more effectively.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend, Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is John Lascuola, did I say that right, John? Very close. Lascuola Lascuola, John Lascuola with LMW Auto Repair outta Maryland, and it looks like you guys have three locations. Jimmy Lea: Yes, sir. That is awesome. I'm so excited to dive in and get to the details of three locations and family run, family owned business, because you guys are all in the business. Which goes to the first question, how did you get started? How I, it's probably pretty obvious how you got started, but how did Pops get started? Jimmy Lea: Where's the start of the business? John Lascuola: Yeah, so he actually worked for a local Toyota dealership. I think they were called r and h Toyota way back in the mid eighties. He was working on cars and just kind of one day thought, you know, I could probably. Do this myself out of the garage at home. John Lascuola: And it was probably back in the eighties where that was maybe a little more, a little easier to do. Jimmy Lea: A little bit more lenient right there. Yeah. John Lascuola: Right. When it comes to legal issues. So, yeah, he opened a business right out of his garage at our home in Baltimore County. Ran it out of the garage for I wanna say about a year or two. John Lascuola: And then we got a building I want to say in 88. Then 89 we officially established the corporation that we have today. So, so that's how we, that's how we got started, Jimmy Lea: bro. And you know, what's interesting about that, John is there are so many, even today that are starting out of their garage. Jimmy Lea: They're starting out of the barn at the back of the house. They're starting out of a storage unit. I was talking to a guy just yesterday, start out of a storage unit. It was in there for four years. Yeah, before he finally decided to strike out on his own and got a brick and mortar facility. And the guy that he had partnered with, they, they parted ways. Jimmy Lea: 'cause the one guy's like, man, I'm good. I got this day job, but I'm doing this nights and weekends outta the storage unit. And my buddy and the guy I interviewed was like, nah p piece bro. This has been great, but I'm tired of crawling around on the floor and I'm sure that's what happened with your dad as well. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Lascuola: Oh yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean that, yeah. That's how we started. And I'm sure a lot of people get started that way and hey, I mean, you know, hustle to get into it. However you gotta, you know? Jimmy Lea: That's it. That's it. The hustle. I, and I love this industry. I love the automotive aftermarket because there is so much hustle. Jimmy Lea: There is work. They're not afraid to work. They know how to work and they know how to work hard and. Smart. And that's what I'm seeing happen here recently is the intelligence, the training, the desire for more knowledge is becoming stronger and stronger. So I love that. So Pop starts, what is the first shop? Jimmy Lea: What does that look like in 88? And dude, you must have been like. I wasn't John Lascuola: alive. Jimmy Lea: I wasn't alive. You weren't alive. Okay. Any pop's First shop? What, do you know what that looks like? Do you know the footprint of all that? John Lascuola: Yeah. Yeah. So there's pictures. And actually at one of our locations we kind of have like a from humble beginnings wall with a bunch of pictures. John Lascuola: And some of them include that first shop. It was a brick brick. I don't even know if it was brick. Just these big, heavy, like cinder block stone building. Not high ceilings at all. I think he only had a couple, I think he maybe had like two, two posts in there. It was not a building that you should, that is conventionally used for auto repair, so it was, oh, Jimmy Lea: true. Jimmy Lea: Do you know Lucas Underwood? Do you know that name? John Lascuola: I know the name. Yeah I've seen some stuff from him. Yep. Jimmy Lea: So his first shop? Mm-hmm. He had three bays. One actually had a tall ceiling, one, another one had a tall ceiling, but his third bay was seven and a half foot ceilings. Oh my gosh. How do you do that? Jimmy Lea: I John Lascuola: don't know. That's a flat day if you ask me. Jimmy Lea: Y yeah. Oh to jack up the cars and try and change out a transmission. You just rested on your chest and tried. You was working on John Lascuola: creepers. Yeah. Yeah, right. Jimmy Lea: Oh, no. You couldn't even fit a creeper under there. You were on your, oh my god. Back. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. To. Lucas his humble starting and now he has a garage. Mahal. Oh, it's the big red barn. It is massive. You can pull two RVs all totally inside, have 'em on lifts and plus six or eight different lifts for other cars as well. So he's got like a 10 bay shop and running a three bay shop is totally different. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. Than running a 10 bay. Absolutely. So Pops has the first location. Mm-hmm. Few bays. When does he John Lascuola: expand? So actually they, we, we didn't do any expanding. We were in that building. We, there was some an, a different building came available that was maybe I don't know, half a mile up the road from that fit our needs a little bit better. John Lascuola: Love it. It was still a three so technically it was one bay door. And we could barely squeeze three bays into it. So it was two, two posts and an alignment rack. And that's what we were from 19, I think we moved buildings in 91, so early nineties we were that until 2020 or 2021. Yep. Jimmy Lea: No way. Jimmy Lea: So in 21 is when you expanded and yeah. Did you move locations in 21? John Lascuola: No no. We Do Jimmy Lea: you still have the shop? John Lascuola: We still have it. I've actually poured a healthy, a very healthy amount of money into that location. We've got a building expansion plan. We're adding four more bays onto it. Done a lot of stuff to the property, so I'm trying to make sure that our original home store. John Lascuola: Turns into our nicest. That's my goal. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats. Dude. I love you honoring the history and the everything that's there, man. Oh, that, that does my heart. Good. Congrats man. Congrats. That's super cool. I. That is very cool. Okay, so you've got the one location, when do you add the other two? John Lascuola: So, yeah, so that was I don't know if you want a little bit of context, but Yeah. The family business was my father, my mother, and my brother. And they were in that one three Bay shop for, like I said, what was that, about 25, 30 years roughly? Yeah, long time. Jimmy Lea: Long time. John Lascuola: So they were there my dad ended up retiring I want to say mid like 20 15, 20 16 ish. John Lascuola: So it was just my mom and my brother. Wow. And it was just really hard for them to work on the business because my brother was working on cars, he was selling tickets. My mom was doing all the accounting. She was helping with all the administrative, so there wasn't really a lot of time to work on the business. John Lascuola: Yeah. And in, in late 2020, I kind of got more or less recruited. As the son that went to college. So, I don't really know anything about cars. It's not my jam. My degree is in environmental science, so it's not even super applicable to auto repair. But I really like organization. John Lascuola: I like systems, I love marketing. I just find it interesting. Yes. So I got in there and I didn't have to work on cars. I didn't have to write up tickets. I was solely focused on how can we improve processes? How can we get more cars in the door? How can we improve curb appeal, you know, branding, creating an identity? John Lascuola: Who are we, you know? So that was our big focus. And that's when we started to tighten up on our processes. A, a new building became available. And I just, I, it was a unicorn. It was a total unicorn. And I said, this is it. We gotta go for it. This is gonna be everything. And we snagged it when we threw a bunch of Hail Marys and we got very lucky and it worked out. John Lascuola: So yeah that's how we got store number two. And store number two gave us the cash flow to reinvest back into store one and then also to open store three. So yeah. Okay. Jimmy Lea: So which one is first? Ralston. John Lascuola: Randallstown. Randallstown. Randallstown. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Randallstown is first and then Eldersburg. That was store number two and then Owings Mills was John Lascuola: three. John Lascuola: Yep. That, we just opened that in November of last year. Jimmy Lea: Okay. So everybody who's listening to this, let's put this in perspective, your family, mom and dad and oldest brother ran the business for 30 years, and I'm sure that there was a super big fear factor bringing in the college student to run the business. Jimmy Lea: When the college student came and said, oh my gosh, you guys, I found this building in Eldersburg. You gotta come check this out. We have to move on this for them. I'm sure you are moving the cheese so far out of their comfort zone that they could not even wrap their heads around it. They're like, okay dude, John, we are putting total faith in you on this. Jimmy Lea: We believe in you. We're gonna do it. Yeah, but you're scaring the crap out of us John Lascuola: a Absolutely, yeah. That is a hundred percent. What happened? There was a lot of conversations of me and I tried to do as much legwork as I could to show 'em the numbers, look at the demographics, say, look, you know, this is it. John Lascuola: We can make it, like, look at the projected expenses and say, look, I really think that this makes sense for us. But yeah, they, it was, and I get it. I mean, if your head's not in it, you're not the one doing all the homework. It just sounds super scary. You know our yeah, absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Well, and for 30 years they were a single location, two lifts, an alignment rack. Jimmy Lea: That was it. Their idea of expansion was working more hours, not actually buying another shop. Hundred percent. John Lascuola: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So props to you, bro, because here you came on in 2020 and put in perspective, I remember 2020, that was COVID extraordinaire. That was some interesting times. So at what point, from 2020 did you find and close on the second location? Jimmy Lea: What does that look like? John Lascuola: Yeah, so I came on board, goodness, I wanna say summer of 2020. We found the Eldersburg store I want to say either November or December of 2020, and then we closed on it in February or March, and then we opened it in eight excuse me, in May, beginning of May. Jimmy Lea: In May of 21, 21. Jimmy Lea: Correct. Okay. Wow. Very, I mean, this is fast. This is happening quickly. It was aggressively fast. Yeah. And props to you for doing the legwork, the homework and the groundwork. You were making stuff happen. At what point did you find the third location? Owings Mills? John Lascuola: Mm-hmm. So, Owings Mills was a bit of a different story that I looked for about two years. John Lascuola: It's not a unicorn, but it's certainly a great location. I think we're doing fantastic there. We've only been there a little over a year. We're already starting to get cashflow positive in that location. But it's, it definitely was a lot more leg work. We got very lucky with Eldersburg. John Lascuola: That was a unicorn that fell into our lap and I was very grateful that we found that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you were blessed right there. That's awesome. Yeah, I gotta look for more of those blessings. So, that's awesome and I love where you're at. How many technicians total, how many service advisors total? Jimmy Lea: Where are you at demographic John Lascuola: wise? Absolutely. So we have about 10 technicians for the whole company. So, I have four in Eldersburg. That is a four two post lift, one alignment rack store. I have four in Owings Mills. That is a four two post and alignment one alignment rack store. John Lascuola: And then I have two in Randallstown at the moment. 'cause currently that is still two, two posts. And rack. However, with the new building that we have planned, that'll add four extra bays and I'll be hiring some extra techs. Yeah, Jimmy Lea: nice. So you're gonna go up to six lifts at Randallstown John Lascuola: six plus Rack? Yes. John Lascuola: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Nice dude that's awesome. It sounds like you got this four bay four post. Forklift business down pat. So this new one, you're adding a, an extra two, probably a small lift. It won't be that much different for you which is awesome. Congrats. Yeah. What does the future look like? What are, where are you gonna go? Jimmy Lea: Now that you have the three, are you adding more or what's the goal? John Lascuola: Yeah, so I've kind of always said that it just depends on if the perfect thing comes along. I was aggressively looking for number three. I'm comfortable at number three. And I really wanna stay here for a while, hone our processes and really dial into systems and making sure that we're just killing it every single day and every way that we can. John Lascuola: So, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Well, and it's good to build the coffers again. I was talking to Dan Garlock Silver. Otto he's in Lac, Wisconsin. I love saying that. Yeah. He's like 7, 8, 9 locations and he is like, no we're gonna pause here for a minute. We're good where we're at. But we're gonna pause and just build the coffers back up, and then we'll aggressively go after some more. Jimmy Lea: So, you know, yeah, keep your eyes open. Keep your ear to the ground, keep listening for that perfect opportunity, and you'll find another elder Eldersburg. Absolutely. And you'll find that in another unicorn. And what's interesting I heard this from Michael Smith. He talks about when you're looking for unicorns, you've got to put out unicorn bait. Jimmy Lea: Okay. What does that say to you? What does that resonate to you? John Lascuola: I don't know. I would love to know what unicorn beta is and get some of it, because that would be great. Jimmy Lea: Right, right. So if you're looking for and this goes for technicians, it goes for finding the shops as well. If you are looking for unicorn technicians mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: They don't hang out with the deer in the middle of the field there Oh, sure. In the trees and Right. They. Are attracted by different things than the deer or the mule would be. Absolutely. So if you're looking for unicorn, you gotta make a unicorn call. You've gotta put out the bait for a unicorn. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. And you will find those technicians that are the unicorns, you will find those locations that are the unicorns if. You're putting out that vibe and you have that company culture and you're talking even to your technicians, Hey, who do you guys know? Who do you know where, do you know what's a shop that you think would be perfect for us? Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. That would fit our company, that would fit our culture? And it sounds like you've got that down pat, which is beautiful. What I hear from shop owners too is once you get past the three, it just becomes. The almost a rubber stamp e every place is unique in it's unique own way, but it becomes a rubber stamp that you're able to take your current process procedure and just put it in place in the new location. John Lascuola: Yeah, absolutely. I mean that, that was our big focus for this year after we opened number three, was really honing into. Our organizational structure as a company, and I mean, we got we hammered down we used to have, you know, some processes, paper forms, and some of them were on the Google Drive and we had a OneDrive, a Microsoft OneDrive, and I said, Nope. John Lascuola: We scrapped all that stuff. Compiled it all in one drive. Organized pathways. We've got I probably made about 50 or 60 new SOPs this year. Nice. I mean, we've got, we've really dialed into, you know, an exact process for almost every part of the job to really just try and make an easily repeatable. John Lascuola: Valuable resource for the employees too. That way they're not having to constantly stop and say, oh my gosh, how does he want it done Again? They can just, you know, go look at the SOP. You can search for it right in your Google Drive. It's super easy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And well, and every technician probably has a computer, so it's easy for 'em to look it up. Jimmy Lea: It's just right there. Yep. And it to the SOPs. Are you doing SOPs for even? This is how we open the shop. In the morning. John Lascuola: Oh yeah. I've got SOPs on the silliest stuff. I mean, I, well, what I think might be silly, but not everybody thinks that way. I, we also have I, I have QR codes on all my equipment, and we made videos of kind of explaining that way when we have a new hire, they may know how to use a tire balancer. John Lascuola: They don't know how to use our tire balancer necessarily. So we've got QR codes on all of our equipment where we're, and it's us. It's not some, you know. Other company, it's me with my cell phone and you know, one of my techs and we're just kind of very casually, you know, 'cause we're not Walmart here, but, you know, I still like to use the technology and. John Lascuola: And try. And I like it. I think it's a nice personal touch, but also super helpful. But that's just, Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So anybody who's listening to this, you just blew their mind with this capability. Really and truly. I, this, that what you are just doing is revolutionary. I have not seen another shop that's doing this. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Okay. And if there is somebody who is listening, that also does QR code to explain what that. Equipment does and how it works and what's the proper process procedure to, to do that machine or that unit. Mm-hmm. I would love to hear from them, John. That is amazing. That's next level. That's. That's awesome, bro. Jimmy Lea: And I love that you have all your process procedures into one location and what you talk about a silly process. Mm-hmm. The silly one is the one you've never written down because you think it should be done one way and they think it should be done another way. And until you put it into a process procedure, they're gonna create their own path. Jimmy Lea: And that's not your path. John Lascuola: Yeah, absolutely. That is a good point. Yeah, it's definitely exactly like you said the, I totally agree. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Congrats for putting this all in process, procedure. You are doing things that I don't think your brother or your mother would've ever been able to do working on the business to the point of process procedures. John Lascuola: Yeah. Well, I mean, and a lot of that just comes down to, it's hard, I get it. When you're. When you're working on cars or service writing or working on cars and service writing or working on cars, service writing, managing employee, when you're wearing all those hats, it is so hard to go marketing and then branding and you know, organizational systems and process like I get it. John Lascuola: The we were very blessed. I don't fault them at all. We were very blessed that I just happened to be in a situation where financially I didn't really need a lot of money. They were able to not pay me a whole lot. Plus it's my family business. I didn't mind helping out. I happen to be not terrible at it. John Lascuola: That was my only job. You know, it was very easy for me because Monday through Friday, eight to five, all I'm thinking about is, you know, all of the on the business stuff, not in the business stuff. So I get, I totally get how it can be hard to, you know, put in those 60, 70, 80 hour weeks, you know, because you gotta work in the business. John Lascuola: And then when you're clocked at, you know, when it's not eight to five, now you gotta start working on the business. It's tough. It pays it, it definitely pays off. That's for darn sure. Jimmy Lea: Well, and what you're talking about, these are the things that keep shop owners up at night. John Lascuola: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: Is, oh man, I've gotta make policy, process procedures to make it easier for my technicians. Jimmy Lea: And then they get in the office and they're like, oh, I'm now gonna do my PO process procedure. And you get deep into your inbox or you get deep into something else, or deep into accounting and pretty soon it's lunchtime and you haven't even. The cursor's still flashing. Yeah. You haven't even gotten process one done yet. Jimmy Lea: Yep. So it's beautiful that you've been able to do that. Question for you with the family run business, there's a lot of dudes and dts, there's a lot of men and women out in this industry who are working in a family environment. What advice would you give to another. Person like yourself in that situation where you're working for the family business in a position of responsibility, how what advice would you give that person? John Lascuola: I think my biggest advice for anybody in a family owned business, and it's tough and it's tough advice to follow and it's advice that has been hard for me to me and my family to follow at times is. Decide what you want. Do you want a successful business or do you want, or do you want a comfortable family environment and you kind of need to prioritize one or the other? John Lascuola: There are, I think, compromises that can be made. But a lot of times you have to make hard decisions where you go, Hey, you know, I know you wanna wear this hat, but I don't know if this is the best hat for you to wear. Or you might even have to have situations where you say, Hey I thought, you know, it might be good to have you involved in this aspect, but maybe it's better if we just, you know, let's just see each other at Thanksgiving and Christmas and let's leave the B You know, sometimes you have to have those hard conversations, and I think that is a lot of things that, a lot of that, that, that is something that a lot of family business owners struggle to, to face head on, is separating. John Lascuola: You know, when you're the business owner and when you're the family member. And I think that's my biggest advice for everybody is have those uncomfortable conversations, face those uncomfortable realities and address those things head on. It might make things a little tricky. But it's worth it if you want to grow and have a successful business, and if that's your main goal is having a successful business, then pursue that. John Lascuola: And if you can do that with family members, that's amazing. And I love that. And there's a lot of amazing perks. There is nothing better than having business partners that you can trust fully and totally. I mean, that is. An invaluable resource. It really is. But just make sure that your mind and your P's and Q's and you're facing reality when it comes to what people are good at and what hats people should be wearing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And even in that situation I know of family run businesses where one member of the family in an unscrupulous manner took advantage of the entire family Sure. And really did bankrupt. The entire business and the other members of the family. So even with the family and you have absolute confidence and trust in them, still know your numbers. Jimmy Lea: Pay attention to your numbers. 'cause the numbers won't lie. Absolutely. Yeah. John Lascuola: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Pay attention to your numbers. You have to. John Lascuola: And that is that, sorry. That is an excellent point. Yeah, I, I wasn't trying to insinuate that just 'cause they're family. You never have to, that's one of those uncomfortable things is Yeah. John Lascuola: You know, there, there is a little bit of, you know, contingency plans that you should put in place, you know, even with family businesses. You're a hundred percent correct. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And there are, there is family that we choose. Yep. Absolutely right. And that family that we choose can be that friend or that confidant or that business partner. Jimmy Lea: And because you choose them, they're part of the family. So you mentioned something interesting hey, we'll only see you at Thanksgiving and Christmas. John Lascuola: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: What does that mean? John Lascuola: Just meaning that if you, I, I have. I talked with a lot of shop owners and I feel like I have talked to some shop owners that are in family businesses that are partnered with people that shouldn't be involved anymore. John Lascuola: Either they lost the passion for it. They never had it. They just really weren't. One of them's a rock star and one of them's mediocre. And I'm sorry if I'm speaking bluntly, but that's the reality sometimes. And as soon as it's, as soon as you realize that, having that uncomfortable conversation of being, you know, saying as nicely as possibly, you know, I love you, your family. John Lascuola: I'm always gonna see every year, you know, as long as you'll have me. But you know, maybe you being involved in this business. Isn't the best choice for the business. You know, having that conversation. And it's tough. It's not an easy one to have. Jimmy Lea: It is a tough conversation in fact, Cecil the founder of the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, his son worked for him. Jimmy Lea: And it, it took him about a year and a half before he was finally able to let his son go. Ah, yeah. That's tough. Yeah, it is tough. And his son, his namesake, his son is Cecil Jr. Maybe he's the third. I think he's the third. It, it is hard. It is tough, man. It's tough working for family and I applaud you for being able to do it. John Lascuola: Thanks. I yeah, I mean, it's tough and it's also not tough. Like I get why it's so hard. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's John Lascuola: just I wish more people could realize if you tried to make me a technician, you should fire me. I'm terrible. Working on co. Like, if I was in that position, I would want somebody to be like, you have no business working on cars. John Lascuola: I'm just. I'm not good at it. I never was. It's been a family business. I've tried several times and I just don't have the mindset for it. So it's like the old saying, you know, you don't judge a fish by how well he can climb a tree. Like, you know, you're good at what you're gonna be good at. John Lascuola: And once we figure out that something's not clicking let's face it, head on together. It just can get, I think pride can get involved and ego can get involved, and it sucks when you've got a family legacy that you think you're gonna be a part of. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John Lascuola: That you're not gonna be, but that's okay. John Lascuola: You're gonna find your own way in this life, and it doesn't need to be that, you know? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I love what you're saying there. I love the analogy too. You can't judge a fish by how well it climbs a tree. We're all d. We all have different strengths. 'cause you can't judge a, an eagle by how well it swims in a lake. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. They each have their own strengths. So where are your strengths? Where do they lie and how can they fit in with the business? And maybe they don't. Yeah, right. And that's okay. John Lascuola: Absolutely. A hundred Jimmy Lea: percent. Tough decisions to make. I think I'm there's so many businesses right now just running through my head of family run businesses performance place. Jimmy Lea: Tracy Holt and his sister they own the shop here in, in West Jordan, Utah, or Sandy, Utah. Denny's auto father-in-law started the business son-in-law, took over the business and now his son is working in the business. Oh, that's awesome. Beautiful family dynamic there. And there's so many more. I'm Oh, Colin. Jimmy Lea: In fact, he's out by you. Do you know Colin? Dude, his last name starts with an A and it has a couple Z's in it. John Lascuola: I don't know. Is, you said he is in Maryland. Jimmy Lea: Is he in Maryland? Is he in Maryland? He might be in Jersey. Okay. I'll have to find out. Super awesome family. They, in fact, a similar situation. Jimmy Lea: They had a three Bay, two Bay or three Bay. Mm-hmm. Sold it and now have a 14 bay shop or a 16 shop. Oh, holy cow. Holy. Yeah. And so he's going through the same learning curves as what? You did and Lucas Underwood did and a lot of other guys. 'cause you don't run a two three bay the same way. 10 Bay. Jimmy Lea: So I'm sure he's right in the position you are of creating all his SOPs and all his, John Lascuola: that's a big jump too. That's big. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Yeah. And he basically went across town so. Previous customer base is probably not gonna come into his ah, new place. John Lascuola: Scary stuff. Definitely exciting but scary. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Exciting but scary is correct. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna attempt this last name. Sure. Holland Emma Za roso o. It does not A-M-M-A-Z-Z-A-L-O-R-S-O. Does not John Lascuola: sound familiar. Jimmy Lea: Okay. His mother's name is Beth. Super awesome people, family run business. His expansion plan is extraordinary as well. He wants to grow to a hundred locations within the next 10 years. John Lascuola: Holy cow. Wow. I felt mine was aggressive. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, he, and he already has it in his mind that he wants to be doing. You know, blah, blah, blah, and these are calculations from a couple years ago. He was like no. $6.4 billion per year type of deal. Wow. I'm like, okay, but wait a second. A hundred locations. Jimmy Lea: Maybe you want to a little bit higher anyways. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, it's fun. It's fun. So what is the future for your shops? What is the future for your business? LMW Auto Repair. John Lascuola: So the future for our business I know I didn't really get into this too much earlier. We have a nonprofit so we fix up vehicles for community members in need. John Lascuola: And kind of all of my scale and my growth, I really feel. Stems from trying to fuel that nonprofit. More so, the more locations I open up, the more we grow. The more I can fuel that nonprofit, the more I feel like I can help my community. That really is just coming down to obviously, yes, it's nice to make more money. John Lascuola: Yes. It's nice to grow the work family and, you know, be able to get to know so many more, you know, lovely technicians and service advisors and managers. I love that. But really what I'm passionate about is getting involved and just really trying to help our community. I think we've given away somewhere between I've got a written down somewhere, 13 or 14 cars and we just started the nonprofit a year and a half, two years ago. John Lascuola: We're just, we started doing community youth events, getting the youth involved in volunteering. We did some tree planting events. I'm just, yeah, Jimmy Lea: dude, I love that. That's awesome. John, with your community foundation, are you getting people to donate their cars? John Lascuola: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Parts stores to donate the parts text to donate their time. Jimmy Lea: There's a whole big PR opportunity here. John Lascuola: Yeah, no, a absolutely. So, most of our cars are donated. I've been trying to work some stuff out with some parts stores. I haven't been as fortunate with that one. However, we've got some really awesome communities that we're in, and we do get a fair amount of cash donations from other nonprofits or very generous individuals that have helped kind of, keep this program going. John Lascuola: And what I do is. We, the company gives $30,000 a year to this. Wow. And any more that I get in here, I'm just funneling it straight to helping more people. I love it. I'm super into it. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. So I would definitely go to your top parts suppliers and say to 'em, this is my program. Jimmy Lea: This is what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing it, and I'm coming to you because. I'm gonna need some donations. I want you to donate the parts. I'm donating the cars are being donated. Our time is being donated. My technicians, they donate their time though. You give them the opportunity, guys, I'll pay you to come in on this Saturday to fix all these cars for these families that need a car. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. You got it in your budget, right? You got 30,000 that you can use for the technicians if they want to, but when they are part of the cause, they're part of the family now the repair takes a different flavor. Yeah. Now it takes on a whole different mindset and the technicians look forward to this. Jimmy Lea: And are we gonna do it once a year? Are we gonna do it twice a year? What's the cadence and now they're looking forward to it. And this is when you get the bouncy houses and the food trucks and everybody comes out because this becomes an event that supports the community. So now the community comes together for it. John Lascuola: Yeah, a hundred percent. No it's, I'm just trying to grow that as much as I can and. Yeah that's been my focus and that's my future goals really. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Nice. So the, what, how many cars per year? What's the goal there for the growth? What, how do you judge success on that program? John Lascuola: Right. So currently what we're doing is we have three we have three regularly scheduled giveaways. We do one at Christmas. We do one at Mother's Day for a single mom, and then we do one on Veteran's Day for a veteran. Outside of that, we are having people constantly reach out and saying, Hey, you know, my coworkers really struggling or, we fell on hard times, or We had this house fire. John Lascuola: We, you know, I've had all of these people reach out and I'm, I've got lists and I've got backlogs and I'm trying to get to everybody when I can. And help when we can. You know, so my ultimate goal is to not have to turn anybody away. My ultimate goal is whenever we have somebody reach out, we can get them a car. John Lascuola: That, that's pretty lofty. So, I'm just as close to that goal as I can get. I'll be happy. And that's what I'm shooting for, Jimmy Lea: bro. That's awesome. Congrats. And you'll do it. You'll do it. I feel the commitment, the strength, the pattern. You're gonna do it. John Lascuola: Thanks. I hope so. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Props. Props to you, bro. That's awesome. Thank you. And congrats to your community, or is it a full nonprofit now You got the 5 0 1 C3. John Lascuola: Yes, sir. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Congrats, bro. That's awesome. John Lascuola: Thank you. Jimmy Lea: Very cool. So if anybody wants to donate, where can they go? How can they find you? John Lascuola: Yep. So, you can go to lw car care.com. John Lascuola: And if you go to our main Facebook page, we've also got information there. You can find us, LMW Community Foundation on Facebook. I think we're on Instagram as well. I the same handle LMW Community Foundation. So, Jimmy Lea: Nice. So anybody that wants to donate some money or donate a car. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. John Lascuola: Yes, please. Jimmy Lea: Lmw car care.com. And what about your car care classes? You're doing some classes too, right? Talk about that for a minute. John Lascuola: Yeah. Yeah. So that's the other leg of this is just also trying to give back in any way that we can as far as education for new drivers. We really feel like, you know when, not even just new drivers, honestly just a lot of drivers, some very basic things about your car that it's, we think would be much safer if you knew how to put air in your tires, change a spare tire rather than waiting on the side of the road for AAA for three hours. You know how to check your oil. John Lascuola: The amount of customers that have a car's burning oil that we tell them, you know, not a big deal. Maybe just check it regularly. You know, you got that old Honda or whatever where they have that problem. Just stuff like that. So that's what we use these classes for. We've started to kind of design some more involved ones on, you know, brakes, electrical systems for some younger people that are interested in cars. John Lascuola: Just to try it out, just to see if they're into it. So we're still early stages with that. We've partnered with there's another nonprofit in the area that helps single moms. So we've partnered with them to put on a class. We just recently had a class with them. Yeah we also do a lot of intern internships. John Lascuola: We have several organizations that work with, young individuals that don't learn in conventional ways that maybe Sure. So, so, we have worked with them to give internships to, to several young men who have done fantastic and honestly could have a very promising career in this industry. John Lascuola: I mean, they showed a lot of talent. So, I just love, I love doing stuff like that. Just trying to, yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That is very cool. Congrats John. There's also an opportunity within the Boy Scouts of America and the Girl Scouts of America which their new name is Scouts of America. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. They have a badge that is the automotive repair badge. I did not know that. So yes, it gives you an opportunity to reach out to all the troops in the area to say, Hey, I am an approved Merit badge counselor. Which John, you'd have to get approved. Yeah. Go through their youth protection training and make sure that you're a good, safe environment. Jimmy Lea: You can talk to them and say, Hey look, if you guys are interested in earning this automotive repair merit badge, we're gonna do an, it'll take one evening and one Saturday morning or something like that. 'cause you gotta look at the badge. Yeah. And reach out to them that, that's an opportunity to expose it even to Cub Scouts in the younger groups. Jimmy Lea: The kids that are eight to 12 or eight to 10 11. Yeah. Expose them to the opportunities of cars and Yeah and torque wrenches and sockets and, oh man they just totally will love it. They totally dig it. A John Lascuola: hundred percent. I love that idea. I did not, I didn't know that was a thing, but that is a great idea. John Lascuola: I wrote it down while we're talking, so I'll definitely be looking into that. Jimmy Lea: Awesome. John. Yeah. When it comes to the Scouts of America, I'm a big proponent. I was a scoutmaster for 18 years. John Lascuola: Oh, wow. My goodness. Jimmy Lea: That's a long time. I'm an Eagle Scout. I've been to the National Jamboree, the World Jamboree, so Wow. Jimmy Lea: When it comes to scouting and that's the beauty of the scouting program, is exposing these kids to everything that might be their possible future. John Lascuola: Yeah. No, I love that. Jimmy Lea: Steven Spielberg, boy Scout. Wow. Photography merit badge. There you go. Wow. Wild. Yeah, true story. True story. A lot of the astronauts are Eagle Scouts. Jimmy Lea: Huh. So, yeah, there's a long history there of scouting and success in America. You don't have to be a Boy Scout to be successful. I don't mean to say that. I do say that the scouting gets you exposure to a lot of different areas that you might not be exposed to save it. Were the scouting program, so John Lascuola: yeah. John Lascuola: No great program. Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. So, last and final question as we land this plane here, John, you have a magic wand and you're granted a wish you can't wish for more wishes. What would you wish. John Lascuola: Oh man, what would I wish for? I think if I had, if I could make any wish, you know what? I wish I, I would wish for the ability to understand. John Lascuola: People better. I think trying to manage staff and trying to deal with the complex emotions and the varying types of emotions and wants and needs. If I could just intuitively always know why somebody was thinking or saying what they were and know the best way to handle that and the best. Approach to that, that would have them understand me the best and make just communication easier between me and my staff. John Lascuola: That bar none probably would be my wish. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love that communication, being able to communicate better, more efficiently, more proper, to understand their mindset, their goals. John Lascuola: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, we in fact, we've got a program at the institute called Leadership Intensive. It's part of our legacy program. Jimmy Lea: I would invite you to come and check it out. We do, this year in 2026, we have three different intensivess. One in Seattle, one in Ogden, Utah, and one in Tampa, Florida. Okay. So, check out our website. We are the institute.com. Go to the events page and find the leadership intensive. That's what you wanna look at that, that is gonna help you understand why you think the way you think. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. What are those truth tapes that you have written in your mind? What are the truth tapes that we need to change and to alter because they're not true? You need to alter your thinking patterns and. On day two and day three is when you get into understanding other people and what are their truth tapes and what have they been through, what, why do they make the decisions they make? Jimmy Lea: So our leadership intensive program is phenomenal. We just had a had one in blowing Rocket, Lucas Underwood's shop. Oh wow. Awesome. He sponsored it and there was like 35 people there. Totally sold out, packed in there. He put up tables and chairs inside of his garage hall, and we took over on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Jimmy Lea: Man it was pretty dang cool. No, that's. John Lascuola: That sounds like a good thing to check out. I will definitely add that to the list. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Yeah, man. John, it's been a pleasure talking with you and learning about your shop, your business. You've got a bright future ahead of you, brother. I am honored to be able to witness greatness and it, I see greatness. Jimmy Lea: Thank you.

171 - The Leading Edge Podcast: Standing at the Crossroads featuring Carl Hutchinson, Complete Automotive November 20, 2025 - 01:42:21   Show Summary: From technician to multi-shop owner, Carl Hutchinson of Complete Automotive in Missouri shares how he built a thriving, people-first business rooted in ethics, mentorship, and accountability. A Master ASE and AMI-certified professional, Carl opens up about the real leadership lessons behind sustainable growth and strong shop culture. Hear how hiring for attitude, creating apprenticeship opportunities, and balancing KPIs with team wellbeing helped Carl grow a high-performance shop that values learning and integrity. Standing at the Crossroads with Carl Hutchinson reveals how purpose-driven leadership can reshape the future of the automotive repair industry. Want help building your legacy and a people-first shop culture? Meet with Michael Smith for a leadership and legacy strategy session. Book here: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session    Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Guest(s): Carl Hutchinson, Owner of Complete Automotive   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Kent introduces the Crossroads series and welcomes Carl Hutchinson, laying out his background and values. [00:01:50] – Carl shares how growing up around “basket projects” sparked his love for problem solving and automotive work. [00:03:31] – He explains why relationships, consistency, and decades-long customer loyalty kept him rooted in the industry. [00:06:01] – Carl describes being unknowingly groomed for ownership and the moment he realized he couldn’t stay under unethical leadership. [00:10:09] – A chance phone call leads Carl to the business he eventually buys, launching the next chapter of his career. [00:14:46] – Michael breaks down why accountability doesn’t start with pressure but with responsibility and authority. [00:20:04] – Carl opens up about losing people in the cultural shift and the surprising ones who chose not to grow. [00:28:24] – The group dives into how failure becomes a learning curve for people who choose mastery over comfort. [00:40:23] – Carl shares how hiring now includes deeper questions about passions, hobbies, and cognitive flexibility. [01:32:33] – In a powerful close, Carl defines the legacy he hopes to leave behind for his team and his industry.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bVN5iNrWm4   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Kent Bullard: Welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge, the Crossroads podcast where we examine the crucial decisions that professionals make that define careers, that shape industries that inspire thought leadership and that build lasting legacies. I'm Ken Bullard and I'm joined with my colleague Michael Smith. Kent Bullard: And today we have the pleasure of interviewing with Carl Hutchinson, the owner of Complete Automotive out of Missouri. Our guest today is a seasoned automotive professional with both a MI and a master a SE technician certification with an extensive experience as a service advisor beyond his technical expertise. Kent Bullard: He's a dedicated family man celebrating 40 years of marriage with his wife Maureen, and a proud father of three children. With a passion for scuba diving, spearfishing, and spending time at the lake, he finds joy in both adventure and travel and guided by his favorite saying, just because he can doesn't mean you should. Kent Bullard: He brings wisdom and a thoughtful approach to every endeavor. A committed Christian, he's been honored with the Vision Humanitarian Award, and the Small Business of the Year Award, reflecting his dedication to his community and industry. Above all, he cherishes his role as a husband, calling his wife Maureen, his best friend and greatest support. Kent Bullard: We're excited to dive into his journey, insights, and the values that have guided his success. Welcome Carl to the Institute's Leading Edge Crossroads podcast. Welcome, carl. Carl Hutchinson: Thank you. That's quite our introduction. I'd like to meet this guy. Kent Bullard: Just look in the mirror, man. Look in the mirror. Michael Smith: We're glad we did. Yeah. Kent Bullard: So I'd love to start off with we always start off with the same question. You know, what originally drew you into the industry, but most importantly, what made you commit to it? Carl Hutchinson: Oh that's pretty in depth. What drew me to the industry was just kind of growing up in it, you know, like the short story is my stepfather was a technician and mechanic. Carl Hutchinson: He didn't do it professionally af especially after I came along. But he still had that passion and I can remember many projects that he would buy and bring home. They were basket projects, something that somebody had taken apart and couldn't put back together. So he would bring them home and put them together and make them work. Carl Hutchinson: And it's just kind of inspired us to, to be in, in that. And not having a lot of means, we'll put it that way. We did without a lot. So if we wanted something, it was usually a basket project. If we wanted a motorcycle or a lawnmower or whatever, we usually wound up buying something that needed to be put together. Carl Hutchinson: And so that's how it kind of got started. And then I think my love of it was the projects, you know, just every day, honestly, two or three times a day, the projects change. So just being in the industry, you had multiple different projects and it was all problem solving. And you know, if you could make somebody's day by taking something that was broken or didn't work correctly and put it back together, put it, make it work, and they didn't have to go buy something new, I think that's really where it all started. Carl Hutchinson: I guess what kept me in it, that's a totally different thing because I've tried to get out of this industry several times and I think this industry has teeth. Once you're in it and you're ingrained into it there's a huge draw to it, but there's also a huge security to this industry that, you know, the 40 years that I've been in it now I've pretty much always had a job. Carl Hutchinson: I've always. Had security. I've always been in a relatively decent position of making money and having insurance and days off and vacations and things of that nature to where I've seen a lot of people around us. In other industries they don't have that. And especially when COVID hit, it was like, well, our industry was blessed and, you know, we had a job. Carl Hutchinson: We didn't have to worry about, you know, staying home. And I mean, I guess that's what kept me in it is once you're in it and you understand it, and you have a little bit of a passion for, I don't wanna say just the automotive portion of it, but it's the people in the automotive portion of it, it's a steady customers that come through. Carl Hutchinson: And, you know, just this past, oh, two weeks, I've had two. 30 year customers come through our doors. And to see them to know that I, as a technician worked on their car 30 years ago and they're still with us through all these years is that's fantastic to see that. So I think that's what keeps me in it more than anything is is the people of it, you know, just having that ability to make somebody's life and honestly change somebody's life in it or make it for the better, just have a part of it. Carl Hutchinson: So that long answer to a short question, I guess, Kent Bullard: Carl, was there a specific moment where you had to make the decision or where you made the decision Oh, ly, that this was where you're gonna stay? Carl Hutchinson: Oh, absolutely. So this is how ignorant I was being in this industry. You know, I didn't realize I was being groomed. Carl Hutchinson: To purchase the business that I was in. I actually worked for a good friend of mine for many years, and he was the owner of the business and he was grooming me to, to buy it. And I had no idea, you know, just I hate to say I'm using those same tactics on our employees now as we go along, just, you know, advance 'em along, give them a little more, and but I was being groomed. Carl Hutchinson: And one day he came to me and he says would you like to own this business? And I thought, oh heck no. No way. Why would I wanna own this business? I mean, I'm very happy with the idea of, I, you know, I show up early in the morning, do my thing all day long, lock the door at night and go home. And I'm pretty happy. Carl Hutchinson: And at that point in time. I thought I was actually going to get out of the industry. I had a passion to, to be in the home industry and building homes and things of that nature, and we were doing some of that on the side. Well, that was 2005, 2006, 2007, all in those years. And he sold the business to somebody that I could not work for. Carl Hutchinson: And I didn't think that there was people out there that I could not work for, and I just, I could not work for this gentleman. The ethics, the they were not my ethics. The morals were not my morals, that the culture changed overnight and it really sucked. So at that point in time, I had to make a decision. Carl Hutchinson: I either have to change industries. Or I've gotta figure this out. Well, by this time it's 2007 in the the sections there. And the housing industry comes to a stre and halt. And all of my dreams that I thought I had were just gone. And I found myself in an ultimatum that I can't work for somebody. Carl Hutchinson: And so I went to this new owner and gave him an ultimatum. And then again, this is how ignorant I am. You know, when you're not the boss, you don't give the boss an ultimatum. Because the boss, I couldn't leave. So, so I found myself having to stand my ground and I had to leave which was the right thing to do. Carl Hutchinson: So, 2008, I didn't realize that jobs were not available. And, you know, I wound up going to work for another competitor, which was a good and bad thing. I realized there was somebody else that I could not work for, but he taught me a lot. He taught me a lot of things I didn't know, and I thought I knew a lot, but he taught me a lot. Carl Hutchinson: But I guess to, to answer the question, that's when I had to make the decision is right then is when I realized I could not work for somebody else. That the way that I had been brought up in this industry and the way that I wanted to operate a business and was not allowed to anymore. The only way to do it was to work for ourselves. Carl Hutchinson: And the funny story is I was I was really looking for a job I needed to get out of where I was at. It was such a bad place, such a toxic place that I had to get out of there. And my mental and physical whole world was crashing. So I was just dialing everybody that I had in my index, anybody that I knew that was in the automotive world, I said, look, I'm looking for a job. Carl Hutchinson: I'm looking for a job. I'm looking for a job. I gotta get outta where I'm at. I'll be a technician again. I'll do anything. I gotta get my head cleared. And this one guy that I called, he says, well, there's no jobs here. Oh. So the one and only time that I'd ever said this was I'm looking for a job or a business to buy. Carl Hutchinson: I only said it once. He said, there's no jobs here, but I think the business is for sale. And I said, can you hand the phone to the owner? Can I talk to them? By the end of the day, I'd already, I toured through their shop and realized there was opportunity and then just kind of make the rest of the story short. Carl Hutchinson: And about six months we became owners of that business. And that's honestly, that's when we had to make the decision if we were gonna do something, I had to do what I knew and this is what I knew. And I thought I knew a lot until I bought the business and then realized I don't know anything. It just. Kent Bullard: Well, Carl, I gotta commend you for, you know, having the moral courage and the moral fortitude to stand your ground on that. I think a lot of people don't, and it leads to a very, a world that is lacking for sure. But I wrote down here, you know, it, you you decided to be the good you wanted to see in the world. Carl Hutchinson: That's, Kent Bullard: and that's Carl Hutchinson: true. I mean, that's, so I'd worked for two people that I thought were very unethical and your ethics don't allow you to do that. Just because you need groceries and pay your mortgage and, you know, send your kids to school those kinds of things doesn't mean you can trash your ethics. Carl Hutchinson: And I was really struggling with that, with both places that I was working, that just, it was a job. They were good paying jobs, but I couldn't stay. I just couldn't stay. And that was, so that was one of the driving things about why we wanted to do what we're doing and the way that we're doing it is that we wanted to make sure that we were on the up and up, that every decision that we made, that if we saw the customer in the grocery store, we wanted to be able to walk up to them. Carl Hutchinson: We wanted to be able to have a conversation instead of it having to turn, walk away, or, you know, have people call your lawyer. I mean, I couldn't tell you how many times I heard that well just call my lawyer or sue me or something like that. That's not the world I wanna live in. That's not the way we wanted to run business. Kent Bullard: So do you think that that tension or that moral tension that you were experiencing led you to seek, you know, high performance or people development driven practices in your business? Carl Hutchinson: Now? Yes. Then no. Like I said, we didn't know what the heck we were doing. I thought all these years of experience, I knew everything. Carl Hutchinson: And holy cow, once, once you become the owner, you don't know nothing. It took a long time for us to figure it out. And really, the blessing is you start surrounding yourself with people that know way more than you do, and you trust them and they, you allow them to push you. And then that's where all of a sudden you start changing your performance. Carl Hutchinson: And when you start changing your performance, you start changing everybody else's performance around you. Now it's a little different now. I think our baseline expectations are much higher than the majority of the industry. And that's just our baseline. You know, what we consider a. What other people would consider be to be very good, talented people. Carl Hutchinson: We feel like these are just basic places to start, and that's probably one of the biggest challenges for us now as we go into this. More of a high performance attitude or mindset and culture is weeding out those that that, that don't wanna play. They just don't wanna be here. Kent Bullard: So I want to ask Michael, so the companies that know that they want to invest in, you know, the high performance or the people development, what are some of the things that they will experience when they don't have those pieces in place? Michael Smith: You know, our industry is really a long history of focusing on the sales transaction at the front desk, the work that's done in the back shop, that it's accurate enough not to come back and cost a lot of money to refix, if you will, and running the basic financials just to try to be as profitable as possible. Michael Smith: And you know what? Happened in the last 20, 25 years was that there was a lot of work done outside of our industry about humans and, you know, how do humans work and why do they work the way they do? And some of the science goes back many decades. But the work that was put together, and I had the fun and fortune of being in the middle of some of that, was trying to bring it forward and start to understand that humans are such a competitive factor in a business. Michael Smith: And so, Kent, this is a setup to the answer to your question. Most people are either come at this human-centric people productivity competitive advantage of humans model. They come at it from a different philosophy more often than they do from a business experience, especially in our industry. And when they come to this and start looking around and realizing that human beings turned on outperform. Michael Smith: All the rest of the, sort of the business models that have come before it. The answer to your question is what people who don't get excited about this get is what I guess you'd call sort of average performance and average, you know, organizational structure and average relationships with their people and that are on their teams and with their customers. Michael Smith: And so it's kind of interesting when, like, when I met Carl and we started talking to each other Carl's had this in his heart. Carl, and I'd love you to speak to this a little bit. You had this in your thought process for quite a while, and I don't know how you got there from here, Garrett. It happened before I showed up in your life and we connected with each other and I'm bringing science to the table and some methodology and supporting you and, you know, development. Michael Smith: Tools and that kind of thing. But you were on this track before that, and so Kent, that's kind of, kind of the answer. The majority of the industry is still focused on sales and production and the human side's a little bit new for us anyway. So Carl, would you take us there? How did you get there from working in the industry in a sort of an average kind of a way? Michael Smith: What brought it to you in the first place? Was it fate? Like you mentioned that at the beginning. So, Carl Hutchinson: There's probably several factors into it. I think that I think like-minded people draw like-minded people. You start running in groups and as you hire you start hiring people that think and act along the same lines. Carl Hutchinson: So, we've not mastered this by no means. Honestly, we're, I think we're in the rebuilding stage of this more than anything 'cause I think I am. Probably the same as so many other business owners out there that have been complacent over the years, and especially in the last five or six years as talent is hard to get or just anybody is hard to get and you hire the best of available. Carl Hutchinson: They may not be the best, but they're the best available. And then you start making concessions and you have a hard time weeding things out. So I, I think we, we started early on just really trying to find people that had the same viewpoints as much as possible. And that's a challenge 'cause you, you start overlooking people that just have a great resume. Carl Hutchinson: Just because they did great things, one other place doesn't mean they're gonna do great things here. Or they might do a lot of production for you and they might do a lot of sales for you, but they do a lot of damage for you also. And that's a real challenge when you start hiring these people and then having to let them go and people don't understand the rest of your staffing doesn't understand and really you can't speak to it as to why, you know, to the technical pieces of it. Carl Hutchinson: But that, that's a real challenge when they ask, well why did you let such and such go? And it's like, well, I can't speak to it, but he just didn't fit our culture. And that's a challenge, you know, when they start running customers off or it's more of a me, attitude as opposed to a we attitude when it's all about me and what I want, what I need, as opposed to what we need. Carl Hutchinson: That those are the tough things. And that's, and we're still in that rebuilding. And honestly as we got more and more into this culture change, 'cause we thought we had a pretty good culture to begin with. Once we stepped it up a little bit, we were really amazed at how many people washed out. Carl Hutchinson: And people that shocked me. I mean, people that I really trusted and really was trying to build a program around. And I think that's probably one of the things that's held us back or set us back more than anything, because I really wanted to be further along in the, in this business life that, you know, some of the people washed out that I was really trusting. Carl Hutchinson: They just, they didn't see it. They just they couldn't get out of their way and see the bigger picture. So, so that's what we're What do you Kent Bullard: think I'd love to dive into that because I think a lot of businesses run into this hurdle when they start realizing that I need to be investing in more than just competency. Kent Bullard: Right. And you've gotta deal with that reconciliation of of competency versus attitude. You know, everybody hears it higher for attitude versus Yeah. But what does that actually mean? Right? I mean, it's so much deeper than that, but what is it like when you're transitioning your team from kind of, Hey, we've got a good culture to now this more scientifically driven approach to human development? Carl Hutchinson: I don't know that I'm not sure that I can speak to that really well. You know, I, I think the warning, and I think Michael's probably warned us all, you start holding people accountable to do the things that need to be done and in a manner that you'd like them to be done. And either they get on the bus or they don't get on the bus. Carl Hutchinson: And to, that was one of the biggest shocks to me anyway, is I knew some were going to go and that was okay, but then the others went and it's like, wow, I didn't see that coming. So I'm not real sure. Kent Bullard: Well, Michael, what do you what happens? So when you start holding people accountable to the next level Sure. To basically saying, I know that you have a much higher potential, and I'd love to Right. Make sure that you meet it. Michael Smith: Yeah. I'll preface this. It's, it doesn't start with accountability. It ends with accountability. Michael Smith: And Carl, we've talked about quite a bit in the group that we're in too about responsibility and authority. And then accountability and people are wired to want more responsibility. I mean, that's science. Social science shows that people thrive when they're growing and when they're doing more and they're achieving and they're champions. Michael Smith: And so they're, they want it. They need it inside. And so when we show up and say, Hey, we think we'd like to do something more together with you, once they sign onto that's it. That's exciting intellectually, right? Then we turn around and say, okay, we're gonna give you the authority behind that. Michael Smith: It's not like I'm gonna sit there and watch you. You go do this new thing, and if you need some help. Come talk to me. Then they go off and start doing that. Here's what inevitably happens is they bump into difficulties in the new thing. Theoretically, they're over the other side of their comfort zone in a space they haven't been before. Michael Smith: They're a little bit nervous, and oftentimes people just pull back and maybe stop trying or they back off and they don't try as hard or whatever. That's when the accountability part kicks in, is you need to be real close to them at the beginning when they're nervous about whether they're gonna make it or not, and that. Michael Smith: Process of self challenge. And I'm coming back to the topic here. You know, it's a surprise sometimes that people will pay all the intellectual, all the verbal you know, say the right words and say, I really want to grow. I wanna do all this stuff. And then when you give them the right to do that, they scare themselves. Michael Smith: They go back to old tapes that they heard when they were kids, oh, you're not very smart, or, you're gonna have a hard time with this, or whatever. They tried to learn things before and it didn't go well for them. And so there's all kinds of stuff creeps up into their mind and their and into their emotions out of the past. Michael Smith: And then they decide that they're gonna slow down a little bit. And then, and that's really the challenge, right? Carl? Say you come to a point where some people. Given the opportunity to step up and swing for the fences, step up, and then they step back from the batter's box and they tap their bottom of their shoes again. Michael Smith: They line up and then they gotta back up and do their grip thing. And they just, this is, you end up with this little dance and it's a surprise. I'm always surprised by the people that decide not to compete, right? They just step back and say, I don't wanna be the best that I can be. And there's lots of reasons for it, and we can all go forward, but some people choose not to for all kinds of different reasons. Michael Smith: So what, Kent Bullard: Michael, what's the, I mean, 'cause any time that you are pushing yourself to be better, you're gonna be in areas of discomfort, right? New things that you have to learn. What. Is different about the ones who put themselves in that space and pull back versus the ones who put themselves in that space and lean into it? Kent Bullard: Yeah, I Michael Smith: mean, I, Kent, that's a great question. I, if you asked anybody, Hey, would you like to play on a championship team and win all the time? Everybody would say, well, yeah, that would be cool. That'd be really fun to do that. It's like, okay, here's what it means. You have to put yourself out there and you have to challenge yourself, and you have to be humble and people have to be able to coach you and you have to, you know, you have to swing for the fences and you have to help other people do the same thing. Michael Smith: And by the way, when you're trying something you haven't done before, you're gonna fall on your face a lot. And that might not feel real good. And some people are a little bit low on self-esteem from the way they were raised, and it's hard for them to fall down. And it's not really about what we're gonna say about 'em, it's what they say to themselves. Michael Smith: And if they had, you know, people that told them in their earlier life they weren't gonna amount to much or they was gonna, they were gonna have to work hard to, you know, blah, blah, blah. Then when they go try something new and they fall down, that just validates those expectations that were set in their lives earlier on. Michael Smith: And that's hard for them because it's like, I'm in tender territory now. This is stuff that I'm not comfortable with. And so again, they'll either step up and decide, no, you know what? Carl's behind me. This is the time we're gonna do this. The organization wants me to do this inside. I know I want it and I need it, and I'm gonna fight through this until I win. Michael Smith: And Carl, we've been all down, up and down this road with all kinds of people. Once they start to get used to the fact that they can challenge themselves and actually succeed, then it becomes a little bit addictive. Right? It's kind of fun to say, Hey, I wonder what I can do next. Hey, I wonder what I can do next. Michael Smith: And once you get that under your skin, then it's almost like they're striving for more and more. And that's, and this is back to our. First accountability question. You don't have to hold people accountable who are self-driving for continuous growth and improvement. They gotta make that transition though. Michael Smith: They gotta get over that hump and into that self-motivated zone. Or once they do that, then, and those are the people that don't make it over that hump, that end up washing out, right? They're just, you chase 'em, you try to help 'em, you encourage 'em, you put your arm around them, occasionally you have to yell at 'em 'cause they're doing something really stupid to sabotage themselves, to keep you from, you know, believing in them. Michael Smith: All kinds of weird stuff happens. But it's really interesting how the people who do want to go forward then just take that ball and run with it. And at some point there's self-correcting too. You bring in a dead new employee or you've got that one last employee who's not gonna play the team's all over them. Michael Smith: And I don't mean in a mean way, but they're like, come on, you can do better than that. And at some point when they get frustrated with them, 'cause they're not gonna try and they're not gonna go forward, the team will turn to you and say it's time. It's time to get rid of this person. It's time to replace 'em. Michael Smith: And by the way, while you're out there, go bring back another champion to join the team, right? So another star player who wants to play on the team, not just a rockstar, but a rockstar team player. And that it just cha, the culture changes. It's a beautiful thing to see. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah, I think you said it much better than I, sorry, Kent, I didn't mean to jump in there, but No worries. Carl Hutchinson: You know, the ones that, that have jumped in and said, yeah, I want that and I'll do it. Have succeeded. And yes, we've already seen those kinds of things come along. Instead of saying some of the things like can you help me with this? Or what do you think? It's, this is what I've done, this is the action that we're gonna take. Carl Hutchinson: This is, oh, I screwed this up, but we're fixing this and as opposed to bail me out of trouble, or I don't wanna, you know, we learned a lot of that. Michael Smith: Go ahead and make me go ahead and make me right. Yeah, Carl Hutchinson: I mean, I think you said, you know, you said it pretty well. I mean, there's a, I think everybody wants it until they get, get it, and then when they get it, then it's easier to revert back. Carl Hutchinson: You know, it's, so, I gotta call it ownership mentality. Because if you owned it, you can't walk away from it. I mean, really you can't walk away from it. I mean, we could not walk away from it. It was, there was, failure was not an option. Hard, hard work was a great option. Working long hours was options. Carl Hutchinson: You know, bringing in counsel was options. I mean, all the failure was not an option. So, we learned a lot. And I think that's what a lot of people are afraid of is that to fail and learn as opposed to just go, I'm done. I'm out. Michael Smith: Let me jump on that for just a second, Kent, and then I'll turn it back to you. Michael Smith: That failure is not an option. Model is something owners know very well because it's your house that's leveraged to buy the business in the first place or whatever. You can't just decide to take another job, right? You've got to make this thing work. And I'll say this though, the reason I brought this up was something you said. Michael Smith: That's what happens in the mind of a person who decides to actively become a master. They develop this mindset to say, failure is not an option. It's like, I get it now and I'm gonna optimize my life, and I'm choosing not to live below my potential. And I don't know what the limit is, but I'm gonna start getting out there and just. Michael Smith: Kitten into it, and it's not good enough for me to be the same as everybody else anymore the way I used to be. I'm gonna go beyond that and I'm not gonna live that way. Right. And that it's almost becomes a failure is not an option mentality, even though they don't own the business. Right? It's like, I'm gonna become a master or die trying. Michael Smith: But then they do. All of a sudden it's like, well, geez, if I can do that, what else could I do? Hey, what's the next level up? Here's a huge step forward. I'll take it. I'm stepping into it. Then they do that too, and they're like, oh my God, I wonder what I could do next. And the leaps start to become exponential. Michael Smith: They're little bitty steps at first, but then it's a big step, and then it's a really big step, and it's like, and shoot for the stars. What could I do? Well, this is the really big one. And then they go do that too. It's like, wow. And now they're in a pipeline for themselves. They do it themselves and it's a beautiful thing to see. Michael Smith: It really is. Kent Bullard: I, I have a working theory. Just bear with me. Here we go. As we were going through this, I'm like trying to diagnose what are some of the key differences? And I really like, you know, I think that those that do versus those that don't, they view failure differently. They have a different perspective of what failure is. Kent Bullard: Absolutely. And the purpose of failure. And Carl, you put it. You put it beautifully. I screwed up, but this is how I'm fixing it, right? Yeah. Versus I screwed up. What do I do now? Can you save me from this? You know? 'cause that's when you really look at it and go, look, this is my problem and it's my responsibility. Kent Bullard: I'm the one that's, that has the authority over the decisions on this. And I know that my team is gonna hold me accountable to the solution of it. And fully understanding that, you know, fail and learn. Right? So there was, rather than fail and secede Carl Hutchinson: short story, that, and my wife's walking back and forth, they Carl Hutchinson: want to hear this, but it's so my story. Carl Hutchinson: So Carl Hutchinson: she said one time, she said, you don't ever screw anything up. I don't know. I never see anything that you screw up. I said, oh my God, Carl Hutchinson: you don't have many things I screw up. I just don't tell everybody. That's right. Michael Smith: And really, it's a quiet, it's a quiet experience, right. I just fix it before Carl Hutchinson: anybody Michael Smith: else. Michael Smith: That's why I go to work early to get it all fixed before the next day starts. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. That's why I work so hard. I wanna fix, I gotta cover that up before anybody sees that. So, but really that, I think that's what we're looking for Carl Hutchinson: In people that we wanna put in leadership positions and the people that we want to advance is, you know, they're not afraid to push the button and go, oh, what does that do? Carl Hutchinson: You know, oh crap, just nap. Right? Pull the plug and let's reset this thing. But I think that's what we're looking for in people to do that and not be afraid to take chances and. To mess stuff up and really to fix it and really going back to this leadership mentality kind of thing, and to give people enough rope to do those things and to stay out of their way. Carl Hutchinson: That has been the biggest challenge for me. And as I talk to our emerging leaders 'cause I, I keep getting this question about, well, what do you do when others don't do the exactly the way that you want it done? And it's like, man, you gotta give them some space. You just gotta let 'em, you gotta let 'em fail to learn. Carl Hutchinson: And that's the only way you're gonna be able to do that too. And that's really tough, especially for those of us that are in this industry. 'cause I hate to say this industry is a very precise industry. It is not an industry of, oh, take two aspirins and call me in the morning or in time it will get better. Carl Hutchinson: It's either is or isn't in this industry and we have very little grace in this industry or forgiveness, and that's, it's a real challenge. Kent Bullard: I've always had this thought and I've never been a technician, but I know that a lot of technicians put a lot of value in whether or not they have the answer. Carl Hutchinson: Oh, absolutely. That they fix the Kent Bullard: problem that's in front of them, right? But then when it comes to an owner in the position where they're training and bringing technicians on board, they're like, well, I need them to be up here. And it's like, well, they didn't have the same level of years of experience and the opportunity to fail like you did. Kent Bullard: And you know, oftentimes in classes I'll say, how many of you guys have, you know, busted apart or done this? Or, you know, a lot of hands go up and it's like there was somebody there that gave you the grace to make those mistakes. I wrote down here, you know, failure is 'cause I always view failure as not the opposite of success, right? Kent Bullard: So here, done here, failure is the cost for competence. And when you're striving for success, I mean, mistakes are gonna happen. And it's how you deal with those things. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. I think you have to fail. I mean, if you're not failing, you're not trying. It's the way I look at it. And to me. There's no I don't know how to say this. Carl Hutchinson: It's not a bad thing to fail. It's a bad thing to quit. That's probably not the right way to say it, but Michael Smith: that's a good way to say it. Carl Hutchinson: You know, I don't mind people failing 'cause those are learning lessons and it's like, well always come away with, well, we're not gonna do that way next time. Or now we know, or, there's so many of these lessons in this industry that you can't tell somebody. Carl Hutchinson: You have to live through them. And that's some of the challenges that we're having with some of our emerging leaders was, you know, I could have told you what was gonna happen, but you wouldn't have believed me until it happened. And then you're on the other side of it, and then you can see, oh, now I understand what happened. Carl Hutchinson: And you're right, I wouldn't have believed you if you would've told me this was gonna happen, but this is what you have to do. So sometimes you have to let 'em go through it and to learn that lesson. And then they have that basis for the next one. The ones that get me are the ones that quit. You know, they're just, no, I failed. I'm done. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna try again. I'm not gonna put myself out there. And the, those people, I don't know I'm not interested in putting a lot of sweat equity into those types of individuals. I'll help just about anybody that wants to help themselves. Carl Hutchinson: If they wanna learn, if they wanna do, if they want to grow, if they want, I'll take chances on people. If they have a desire and a passion to do something, and I think that's what we should be doing. 'cause you never know there's a diamond out there that just needs to be polished up somewhere. Carl Hutchinson: Somebody spent a lot of time with me to give here, so I think we need to pass that on to the others. Michael Smith: You know, if you see, and I'll add to this, if you see failure as a mistake or you see failure as some kind of a character weakness or a an indication to others that you're not all, that you are trying to present yourself to be. Michael Smith: If that's what failure is, then it's gonna be a painful, avoidable, you know, try to avoid it thing. If there's an emotional, an emotionally dispassionate approach to failure and say, look, I'm a master. And I'm a master in training and I'm gonna continue to master more and more things in my personal and professional life. Michael Smith: And failure for me is nothing but an attempt at something I haven't done before that I'm gonna conquer. If I miss it this time, I'll try again. If I miss it that time, I'll try till I get it. And once I got it. And so failure isn't a mistake. Failure is a learning curve. Yes. Experience. And so then you can step back and you can make it intellectual and set the emotional part aside. Michael Smith: You can be frustrated all you want, but don't take it personally. Right. It's like, it's not like, right. You as a human being have failed because you didn't finish this properly. It's just one more, one more chip on the pathway to getting it right and that, that. That mindset shift is huge for this path to mastery. Michael Smith: It's huge because that's what allows people to say, Carl's not gonna think less of me. I work for him. He told me to take a chance. I tried my best. I failed. I'm gonna beat myself up more than you. I know you, I, you know, you, and again, as long as I'm trying and learning, you'll stand with me indefinitely. Michael Smith: It's when I stop and lock up and say, oh, this is stupid. I'm not gonna learn. Or, you know what? I hate this and you know, I'm gonna just stay stuck or whatever. That's I'm with you. That's when I look at people and say, I don't know how I can help you at this point, because as long as you're trying this path is endless. Michael Smith: And as soon as you master something, pick something else that's parallel to it. Pick something else. That's interesting. Add that to it. This is a lifetime journey. Endless learning opportunities and I'm with you. So it's that emotionally dispassionate approach that really helps a lot. So if anybody's stuck in that self separate your self-esteem if you can from the failure in a moment and realize it's just a learning moment. Michael Smith: So, Kent Bullard: thank you Michael. I needed that personally. Most of us Michael Smith: do. Me too, by the way. Calm me. We, that's the thing Kent Bullard: is like a lot of this, a lot of this stuff is like practice. It takes practice. Even I struggle with a lot of this stuff, you know, and just going, oh, I wanna quit, or I have these negative thoughts and I'm like, well, no, I can't. Kent Bullard: I gotta get back up, dust myself off and keep going at it, you know? Yeah. I wanna put a pin in this. Just, I love this topic, but I wanna put a pin in it because I wanna move towards you know, looking at Carl, you know, what are some of the strategies or the philosophies that you have found have been effective for developing your talent? Carl Hutchinson: Wow. Strategies. I really didn't know much about strategies until I met Michael. And I'm still learning about strategies. Most of the rest of it is just learning the hard way developing people. You know, you, I don't know. We come from an industry that has come so far in the last really 20 years, but in the last 40 or 50 years, it's really come a long ways. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, it's just the, we've cleaned up the industry, we've been become professional. You know, there's so much of that. The strategy is man, Carl Hutchinson: probably to know them more than what I would've ever known them in the past, and I still struggle with that. And really knowing in depth. I think we have a surface level of knowing our employees and then maybe the second step down. We know 'em, maybe we know their kids' names or something like that. Carl Hutchinson: But to really get to know that the really inner passions that's one of the challenges that I'm working with is to really, to get to know my employees better. Screaming and yelling. That's not a strategy that, that we done that once and that doesn't work both ways to me out from me. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. It doesn't work. I think trying to pick the right people, asking the right questions and if I can marry up what they want to do with what I need done is probably one of the biggest challenges. 'cause we've hired a lot of people in the past that we knew were not five year people. They were not 10 year people. Carl Hutchinson: Which was okay to fill a spot to get us going, to get them going, to get them from A to B. But if they want to go on and be an architect, if they want to go on and be a lawyer, if they want to go on and be something else, and they need us for a short period of time, I think that's, we've done that. I'm still working on the strategies. Carl Hutchinson: I think that's the best thing I can say is I don't know that I'm on my way to mastery, let me put it that way. We'll put the yet in there. Kent Bullard: So well, let's look at let's take a pivot here. Then we can go onto another subject. Let's take a look at, you know, I mean, you're actively hiring and finding. Kent Bullard: Team members to, to expand, you know, complete automotive and what you guys do. What are some of the unique qualities or skills that you tend to prioritize for a high performing team versus, or I guess above and beyond the competencies or the technical skills? Yeah, Carl Hutchinson: and I'm trying to come up with some scenarios as to the things that we've hired to and the things that we've passed over. Carl Hutchinson: I guess that falls into the strategic planning portion of it more than anything is I put a job offer out to a gentleman that had all of the credentials that really could have been a production machine for us, and I had to withdraw that job offer. The more we thought about it, the more we realized this was not. Carl Hutchinson: A long term thing, and I didn't wanna do that for our team, and I didn't wanna do that for him. So that was the conversation that we had. So I think that falls into that category of, you know, just because they have all the credentials and they can come in and do, doesn't mean that they're going to be the right person for everybody else and for our long-term growth. Carl Hutchinson: So I think that falls into that being selective and being more strategic there. I use the word in a sentence. Kent Bullard: Does it hurt having to say no to somebody who looks really good on paper? It Carl Hutchinson: really does. I mean, and I think I can say this for about every shop owner out there, probably every business owner out there, it doesn't matter that when you get somebody that has all of their credentials, you want so badly to hire that person that you actually make them the what you want them to be, as opposed to what they really are. Carl Hutchinson: And that's a real challenge. 'cause that's where you have to have people around you going, yeah, I don't like the way he walked in. I don't like the way they talk to us as they come into the interview. I don't like the way they were dressed. I don't, you know, they, they see all the things you don't see because you're blinded because of the resume and. Carl Hutchinson: What you need to get done. And you're tired of hiring, interviewing and it's like, man, I had to pass over somebody else. And then you think, well, I'm gonna hire somebody that's of a lesser caliber, but you don't know. You've not met that other person yet. So I think that's some of the strategic, if I can keep going back, I'm gonna learn this word at some point, I'm wanna get into my brain. Carl Hutchinson: That yeah, Kent Bullard: It's like good relationship advice, right? Yeah. You know, sometimes you just like the idea of them, you romanticize or fantasize this version of them that could just fit into your life so well and you don't look at them as a human being. And I think that's one thing, you know, especially in my interviews, in my, filters, right? Yeah. Is to ask specific questions so that I am trying to hit as many of my own biases as I can with logic, right? Yes. Yeah. Is this, you know, we look at a personality profile, there's gonna be this discrepancy here. How is that gonna play into the dynamic of my team? And frankly, if that were turned up to 11, how bad could that be? Kent Bullard: Right? It just, it's the same as I would look at some of the good qualities and turn those up to 11. What would happen if I Right. Was able to put them in a position where they were using all of this. Right. What could that do for the business? Yeah. And that takes a lot of thought and consideration, not only from yourself, but also with your team. Kent Bullard: And I think there's a lot of people who. Are just like, I need to put a body in the seat and so that I can get back to trying to, you know, I think I've said that keep bailing water out of the boat. Right? I think Carl Hutchinson: I've said that a few times. I just need somebody here that can Carl Hutchinson: do something. But yeah it's a real challenge, you know, and we've learned to ask more people-centric questions than maybe process procedural questions. Carl Hutchinson: And, you know, one of my things as of late as I'm trying to get this leadership team to grow is I've handed off that hiring portion. So to let them do the interviews on the technical aspects, to let them do the interviews on the positional aspects. I may do some of the preliminary type of stuff. Carl Hutchinson: You know, I may go through and look through resumes and go, yeah, this stack. And this stack? No. And and I may do some of the initial phone interviews to say, yeah, let's get this person in or not. But you know, I'm trying to ask more of the, I guess, the intellectual questions and more the deep thinking questions. Carl Hutchinson: And one of the questions that I've asked over the years, and I really was surprised at how much effect it has on decision making is I asked them what their hobbies are and if they can't answer quickly, that's really not a good candidate. And it really amazed me that was such a defining question that if they don't have a hobby or a release or a passion for something other than what they're doing it was a big indicator and I was really surprised that it was such a big indicator. Carl Hutchinson: 'cause the ones that really didn't have a hobby, they were pretty bl pretty just. Kent Bullard: So, so let me ask you, does it matter what the hobby is? Carl Hutchinson: Not really. I mean, you would think people that are in the automotive industry, that would be their hobby. And it's the good ones that's really not their hobby. And it's amazing, whether it's RC cars or whether it's archery, or whether it's horses, or whether it's motorcycle or motocross or whatever. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, the list is endless. Artist dancing, I mean, that was, that's the one that blew my mind. I hired this young man that when I asked him what his hobby was, he said, dancing. It's like, dude, you're 19 years old. Dancing is your hobby. He says, absolutely. I says, well, what kind of dancing? And then he rattled off stuff I'd never heard of. Carl Hutchinson: And it's like, you're, it, I mean, but I was really shocked that was such an indicator that it gave me the idea that there, there was more to the person than just the job. And if you're just showing up here and you're going home and sitting in front of the television or you're, you know, you don't have another interest. Carl Hutchinson: There's no driving. And I was really shocked that question was such a game changer as opposed to a lot of the other questions. Kent Bullard: Michael, I wanna throw it over to you 'cause I just had a thought and I wanna ask a question here. So bear with me as I kind of flesh this out. Okay? Sure. Looking at this question, Carl do you think, Michael, that it has to do with the fact that the people who don't have these extracurriculars or these hobbies are somewhat locked? Kent Bullard: Yep. I think Carl Hutchinson: you're getting Kent Bullard: it. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah, I think you're getting it too. Yeah. They're, Kent Bullard: they're locked in this space where they're not cognitively flexible and that prevents progress or growth. So an evidence marker to say that this is gonna be somebody that is gonna be hard to invest in their own personal benefit and development just because they don't have, like, they are already inflexible with their life. Kent Bullard: They're doing this and this, and that's it. I don't know if that is a great question there, but I don't know. I don't wanna answer Carl Hutchinson: for Michael, but I just. The more I think about it it's more of like the critical thinking. Like if you have horses and man, they're just problem solving all over the place with horses. Carl Hutchinson: So if you have horses and you're trying to train them and you're trying to get them to do something, you're constantly just on the this thinking thing. RC cars or archery, I'm just thinking all these things. All of 'em have critical thinking. I mean, the hobbies that I have, there's a lot of critical thinking in it and problem solving. Carl Hutchinson: And you're always challenging yourself to do something more, go places different. And so I really think there's something to that, that those are the ones that I kind of think set, are set apart. That they're already on a path. That if they're doing something like that, then they're teachable then they're. Carl Hutchinson: Maybe they're more apt to take on that extra thing and not really know what the heck they're doing. Michael Smith: And yeah, and I'd absolutely agree with that. And I would I'll add this to it, and sorry that my intercon internet connection this afternoon is just a tad unstable, so I caught most of that. Now, you know, I'll say this. Michael Smith: We live our life in habits and Carl, we've talked about this and some of the stuff we studied together, we are 90% habitual. As average human beings. And so the point is we groove our lives in ways that worked in the past, and then we tend to stick with it because it's energy efficient, it's time efficient, it's, you know, it's success efficient. Michael Smith: I know if I do it again, I'm probably gonna succeed. And so in some ways, all, every single one of us gets lazy. And whatever we habitually tracked is what we tend to continue to do. And so you can track sitting on a couch and playing video games with every ounce of free time you have. Or you can track, you know, dating your girlfriend, turns into your wife, and you spend all of your life focusing on just one person. Michael Smith: And that's all you do outside of work too. You can track anything you want to in terms of this habitual model. And so I'm just sort of bringing the psychology behind what you guys are talking about. You can track learning too. You can become a learning, mastering being, and you can habituate that and you can then be interested in trying new things and doing hobbies and, you know, getting good at something. Michael Smith: And you can have one hobby, or you can have a hobby for a while and then abandon it. I think those of you who know me know how much I think of da Vinci and how he would just grab some very strange challenge and work it, fail at it, work it, fail at it, work it until he mastered it, and then when he was sufficiently. Michael Smith: Pleased with his level of progress. He'd say, okay, that's enough. I consider that I've mastered this particular thing. And then he'd turn around and pick up some equally difficult, impossible thing, and he'd take that on until he mastered it. And that, you know, that's the person you kind of, in some ways want to hire. Michael Smith: Right? A da Vinci, of course, if he was still here. But beyond that, people who are just ready to try new things and say, you know what? I love this process of learning. I'm not afraid to fail, and I think it's great to do new things together. 'cause frankly, as a business owner in the industry that we're in, you can learn to run the operation better. Michael Smith: If you're in the back shop, you can learn more about what happens at the front desk. If you're an owner, you can learn more finance, you can learn more psychology. If you're in the customer studying business, you can all figure out. What's happening in your community and in your particular unique customer base and watching the vehicles change? Michael Smith: There is an endless number of things. There are an endless number of things that we can study and learn in our industry to be at the top of the game. And, you know, that's the thing. Are they habituated to couch sitting or are they habituated to the learning curve and to being excited? And that's where the hobbies would lean in dancing and motorcycle riding on the weekends and whatever, right. Michael Smith: Whatever their things are. I, so I join you in that. There's a lot of psychology behind what you guys are talking about finding the champions in preparation. Right. Kent Bullard: I wanna reiterate the question now that I've had a chance to think about it. So for now that we've Michael Smith: the wrong question. Kent Bullard: Now that we've answered the question, I'd love to reiterate the question. And we'll do this in post, we'll put it back in the beginning, but the question really is, do you think that the hobby question is related to the cognitive inflexibility of somebody who you are going to invest a lot of time and energy in developing and could bear evidence to whether or not there's somebody who can view that potential and pursue it? Carl Hutchinson: I'll say yes. I mean, that's the short answer, just for the simple fact that I have passed over potential employees based on that answer. I mean, that's the short of it because if they don't have a driving interest it's a real challenge. I mean, that's just been my experience is it's a real challenge to get them to do anything that I need them to do and Right. Carl Hutchinson: It's almost like a qualifying question as opposed to, you know, do you have a driver's license? We have to have a driver's license to, to work in this industry. It's like, do you have a hobby? And that ought to be like question number two, makes this interview really short. I don't know. But yes I think to me it does, and I don't know about to everybody else, but to me it does because it, I find it a real challenge to, to get somebody to go to where I feel like they can go or where I need them to go if they don't have that teachable or that ability to problem solve, learn self-motivated, I mean, those kinds of things. Carl Hutchinson: Because I think that's what comes from hobbies. I mean, I mean, you think about it, if you wanna fly RC airplanes, there's a whole lot of stuff you gotta know. I mean. Way more than I ever thought about knowing. Like you just can't fly them any day. I mean, just because you're day off, that doesn't mean you can fly them that day. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, there's a lot of things that go into it, and you really have to be on this constant thinking and planning and I really think that's where, I think that's where the hobbies come into it. At least that's what I see. And I hate to say, I just stumbled onto it, just I picked it up somewhere. Carl Hutchinson: In some class that I was in, it's probably the one thing that I got out of a class. I'm gonna say it was a Cecil class. We'll give them the credit for it. I Michael Smith: picked it. You're not Carl Hutchinson: here to defend Michael Smith: himself. Go ahead. I picked it up. Now I'm in class and it's like, oh Kent Bullard: yeah we are creatures of habit and we tend to habitualize the things that are successful. Kent Bullard: Right. What we do. So to take it one step further, I guess you could even say, you know, is the hobby something that is mentally stimulating in the sense of dealing with problems? 'cause I could see people answering hobbies that are not necessarily like, that seem a lot more passive, you know? Carl Hutchinson: I don't know. Carl Hutchinson: My wife does needle point and I don't know. Yeah, I guess there's problems with that too, that you gotta solve and mean. She does all kinds of craft hobbies. This house is full of it and, Kent Bullard: I guess aside from saying you, you enjoy watching tv, you know? Yeah. Which is right. Anything other than that? Yeah, I, Carl Hutchinson: I was gonna say, that's a mental note to anybody that's doing any kind of an interview, even if it's a fake Kent Bullard: hobby, don't answer with that question. Kent Bullard: Make Carl Hutchinson: a hobby, but be prepared to answer a few questions, because there may be somebody that knows a lot more about it. I mean, you know, I know a little bit about motocross or motorcycles. I mean, that's a hobby that I could ask questions about. You know, badminton, eh, probably not. You know, I don't, you know, pickle ball? Carl Hutchinson: I don't know. It's like ping pong in a big court, I guess. But I don't know. Kent Bullard: So let's refocus let's go into the next piece here. Because I think there's a balance here. A lot of people who are listening to this out there. If you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, this is a lot of, Carl Hutchinson: where are they going with this mumbo Kent Bullard: jumbo where it's like, we're, oh yeah, people, you know, all of this and can take it as this very ethereal intangible thing, you know? Kent Bullard: How do you approach the balance between driving a team for performance? 'cause a lot of people are gonna be numbers driven. I wanna make sure we're hitting targets and all that. And also maintaining a supportive, human-centric environment with your team where you're having the time for the people, parts of it. Carl Hutchinson: I think that's the one question that I put. I don't know. I got that one figured out that's a master level of somebody else there that I need to get in their wake and figure out how this happens. Honestly, it's a bigger challenge for me now than it had been because we were such a numbers driven and, you know, go push and, you know, we could make the numbers work. Carl Hutchinson: But you also wear your people out and, you know, you don't have the right attitude. So I honestly, I'm trying to do the softer approach to it. I'm trying to back out and really give people a lot more space and a lot more ability to make those decisions and learn some of the tough lessons of making those decisions to get some of that balance because. Carl Hutchinson: You know, I hate to say we can't work from home. Okay. So it's not, we can give you that kind of a benefit. And any kind of time off is a detriment to the company. Twofold. I mean, when you really think about it. So trying to work within the people that you have, trying to give them the time that they need to, you know, to buy homes to get off early, to go to their kids' school plays and, you know, to ball games and things like that, to be somewhat flexible. Carl Hutchinson: I think we're a lot more flexible now than what we've ever been in this industry. And I think that's how you keep the good people. I think that's how you motivate and motivate, iss the wrong word. Maybe inspire the right people. To show up early the next day, maybe to work, I hate to say work through lunch, but work through lunch that kind of thing. Carl Hutchinson: So, Kent Bullard: well not only work life balance things, but what about, you know, the time to invest in development discussions and team meetings where you're talking culture and, you know, those are practical things that take time within the business space and leveraging whether or not those are valuable to the overall output of the company. Carl Hutchinson: Well, right, and I hate to say I'm struggling with that piece of it just this week because we've got some planning meetings that. Don't tell Michael, but I'm a little bit behind on, and I won't tell him either. So in the years past, it was pretty easy to do all this, and I'll use the word strategic. I love the word now. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, I was the guy that was doing it. I had my core people, they were around me. They and those were outside of my business. Those were the counselors and people that you bring in the group process. And we could go through and I could run budgets and I could run market plans and I could run projections. Carl Hutchinson: And I could do all these things and I could have all this stuff done. The challenge is now nobody knows it but me. And now that we're trying to bring these other leaders in, and I really want their input and their buy-in as to what we're saying to be done. Now I'm running into this time barrier of vacations and, you know, people are off. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, I got a gentleman off right now for a couple of days, you know, he's moving and so now I can't take my leadership out. And so, no, I'm struggling with that. I'll be real honest with you. I'm really struggling with it. So one of the things that we've done to, to curb some of this is we went to a every other week lunch meeting entire staff at that location. Carl Hutchinson: We're providing lunch, we're running a mini L 10 meeting or a mini leadership meeting. Don't tell 'em, but there's an agenda and I got the agenda in my head and we click through it. I'm not writing it out. I'm not telling you what the next steps are, but I mean, it's that check-in process. Tell me what works. Carl Hutchinson: Tell me what doesn't work. Tell me what we can do better all of, get all this input as much as we can in a short period of time. So that's carving those times out. Honestly, even that as a challenge, because the pushback has been, you're taking my time, this is my lunch hour. I don't know I come up in an industry where you went to work and then you did all your training and everything after hours, you gave up your Saturdays. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, this is the old school we're dealing with the new school way. So it's a different way of thinking. Yeah. But so no, that's it. That is working for us. It's taken a long time for everybody to understand that it's a safe place and that they can speak, they can say. Such and such offended me. This tool doesn't work. Carl Hutchinson: What do you think about doing this? You know, this needs to be fixed and it's fixing all the little things. Keeps them from being big things. I guess that's the best way to put it. And if we fix all the little things along the way, then they never become big things And you know, all of those big things have, we don't have the big fires anymore, they're just the little ones. Carl Hutchinson: So that's, I guess that's the best way. And it's, that's probably the hardest thing is trying to carve out time now. 'Cause our industry and our people have changed. And I honestly, I think it's for the good, but then there's so many of us that are, my God, why don't we just stay after work and let's get this done? Carl Hutchinson: And, you know, it's like everybody's wanting to, no, I'm going home. I, it's like, well, I really can't ask you or demand you to stay. So we have to figure out how to carve out time. Yeah, Kent Bullard: that's right. You're hiring with pe people with hobbies. There's more to life than just work, right? I do wanna commend, I just wanna make a comment for Carl. Kent Bullard: You know, he said we experienced this problem and here's what I'm doing about it. Just to, well, you know, talk about leadership, right? We Carl Hutchinson: keep changing it, you know, 'cause I mean, we're running kind of the EOS program as closely as I can run it. So we're running an operating system and it's a lot of meetings and I, and I've told this to Michael several times, it's like, man, I'm meeting out and it's just every day there's another meeting, there's another meeting. Carl Hutchinson: And but it works. And that's the challenge of it is it works. I think that what we're experiencing is we're running extremely lean right at the moment, and it's hard to carve out. It's hard to pull out that leader that you need with Kent Bullard: everybody there. Yeah. Carl Hutchinson: And still get stuff done because somebody's being shorted because that person's not there. Carl Hutchinson: So if you're running fat, it's a lot easier. But if you're running very lean, which is where we're at right at the moment, and we chose to be lean at this point. We got tired of all of the distractions, so let's just run lean for a while. But that's what's also turned into a challenge, especially when you have a leadership meeting. Carl Hutchinson: Then you have, you turn right around and you have a staff meeting, and you try to do all those in the same day. And then, oh, now we have a planning meeting to go to. Now we have a financial meeting to go to. Now we have a. Strategic, what are we gonna do for next year meeting? And yeah's, Kent Bullard: there's always things that I personally like to prioritize when I'm having a meeting is just either this meeting is here to make a decision for how we move forward, or this meeting is gonna save us 90% of the headache later. Carl Hutchinson: And the, just for clarification. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The second one is the biggest thing that I try to explain to all of our employees that speak up. Let us know what's going on. Let us help you, let us fix it. Let's figure out what training you need. Because if I can train you now, we have less headache in the future. Carl Hutchinson: Everything has that. Let me get you through fire safety. Let me get you through whatever. And we don't have that big headache later. But to circle back, that's honestly, that's one of the biggest challenges we have in this industry. Not just in-house, in our house, but as an industry whole. We see our associations really struggling, and we see our business development groups struggling because the mentality is I don't wanna go seven o'clock at night. Carl Hutchinson: I don't want to go eight o'clock at night. I don't wanna give up my Saturday. I'm already giving up. So honestly that's probably one of the biggest things that we have trouble with in our industry. And as, as I talk to people in other industries and I don't know how they relate because we're such a production oriented industry that like, if somebody needed to go get 20 hours worth of continuing education, they just go do it. Carl Hutchinson: Well, I don't know who does their job when they're gone. You know, it's like if we sent two technicians out to, to do that, who does that? It just doesn't get done. And that's, that, that's a real challenge for us. 'cause we are so product driven, we're so sales driven. We're so, and it's tough to carve that time out. Carl Hutchinson: Well, I think if you can communicate, Michael Smith: Ken, can I, oh yeah, go ahead Mike. No, just a little bit. You know, I often meet owners who say, you know, I put in an EOS system or something similar to it, and they come and they say it's not working and this is not a slam on EOS or traction or any of that. Michael Smith: And they come and they say It's not working because we sit in our meetings, we have our L tens, whatever, and people take, pick up their rocks and they promise they're gonna get it done, and we make all the commitments and then they come back to the next meeting and it's not done. And so then we sort of castigate each other and we reset the expectations and we add a couple more rocks and they go away and they come back to the next one and it's not done. Michael Smith: It's incredibly frustrating. And then they'll say something like, this system doesn't work right, because they get to that point. And I'll say, it does but I'll say, here's the difference. If you do the accountability thing with those fine accountability systems, and there's many of 'em, you've got an accountability book. Michael Smith: On your bookshelf right behind you that some folks know as well. Right? And those systems are great, but if the people aren't motivated from within themselves to be engaging in what they're doing, then these meetings are meetings for the sake of meetings and you hand them rocks and they're carrying a load and it's like, why do I have to carry this on top of what I have to do? Michael Smith: Or do you know how busy I am already? Or blah, blah, blah. Right. Well, we, what we seem to find is that when the teams and Carl your is in the done a chunk of it, and there's still always more to do when individuals decide they're going to grow their own life. Right? It's like, I decide working for you, Carl. Michael Smith: I'm gonna make the most of my life. I'm gonna make it. Personal side, professional side. I wanna master everything I do at work. I'm gonna go home and master my relationships. I'm gonna go back onto into my friend group and clean it up a little bit and fire some of the jerks that I should have fired a long time ago and all that, right? Michael Smith: I had to decide I'm gonna lead a different kind of a life. All of a sudden. I want the metrics, and this is gonna sound crazy, but it's like, you know what? Now I come to the L 10 meeting and guess who I'm answering to? I'm not answering to you. I'm answering to me because I've decided that you're gonna help me. Michael Smith: And you said it. You have so many seeds that you've sown through this. Carl, I'm gonna pick up on a couple you want you've aligned what I want with what you want from me. Right. Your job as the owner is, look, I gotta move the company and I got all the stuff that needs to get done. You guys are all here working and you're growing in your own profession. Michael Smith: My job is to know you and what you want and need, and then I gotta put all that together so that I ask from each of you what you are gonna be able to give and want to give so that at the end that all adds up and we all get what we want, which is a highly successful company. Enough profitability to raise paychecks, all the stuff that we all want, all the way around the board. Michael Smith: And when the culture takes that turn. And people aren't there anymore for a job. They're not there anymore because they have to be there. 'cause Carl's gonna be on their back if they don't, or the store manager or whatever. Accountability suddenly becomes this thing about, look, hold me accountable and I want you to pick out what I can do better. Michael Smith: Most people are like, what? I don't want you to talk to me about my failures. Are you kidding me? It's like, no. At the end of the meeting, I don't want to hear what went well. I want to hear what we could do better next time because I'm on a journey here and you're here. You told me you were gonna come help me with this journey, Carl, and I want you to push me right? Michael Smith: I want you to hold me accountable. I want you to kick my rear end, right? We have peer groups of owners and they always ask, we want our butts kick more. And it's like, you like this? It's like that's what helps us to stay moving, right? Because there are times when we sit down and go, I'm tired. Then you look in the mirror and it's only you looking at you and you go, Hey, that guy looks tired too. Michael Smith: And then you decide to sit there. Right? But if somebody calls on the phone, did you get that report done? You're like just a second. I'll get it out tomorrow. Right. Yeah. And again, it's just back and that's where I'm just building an awful lot of stuff. You said when you get a true championship team turned on, they are in the metrics 'cause they want them for each of their individual selves and they want to know how the team's doing. Michael Smith: 'cause you know, at the end of the day, the way you become a chronic champion is you beat everybody else more consistently than you lose. The only way to know that is if you keep score. As dumb as that sound. You can't just do it and go, well, that one felt pretty good. It's like, you gotta win. And that's where the metrics part comes in. Michael Smith: So I, and you're, you have largely turned that corner and you know that you're past, the meetings are a pain in the neck. 'cause they just take time away from me. Now you're into the, well what do they really mean to me? And why am I here? And now I sure they care. And some of the folks that work for you are there and some of 'em are getting there. Michael Smith: And it's good, right? Because 'cause that's when it takes on a whole different nature. Anyway, I wanted to add that to the mix. 'cause I often hear, oh, my accountability system doesn't work. It's like, well, let's dig into that a little bit. It's probably not the system that's the problem at this point. Michael Smith: And you get back into the human side, right? Carl Hutchinson: So give it a, you get the nail on the head and any operating system is not easy. I mean, really it's not, it doesn't matter what it is. You know, you can read all these books and do all, but doing it and holding yourself accountable to it is probably the hardest thing, right. Carl Hutchinson: But yeah the, to carve out the time is probably the hardest thing. Because anytime you have people that are in production roles of whatever, it doesn't matter, whatever role they're in, they're producing and you take 'em away from that is a challenge. But I've always looked at it as, if I took 20 minutes of your time or an hour of your time, can I save you three hours later? Carl Hutchinson: Can I save you upset customer? Can I save you some kind of headache? Or even if it's just a discussion or passing on the knowledge of, hey, let's don't work on that. You know, let's some of this old knowledge that we have, some of these newer people don't know. To not do. I think that's the best way to put it. Michael Smith: Yeah. Well, let me add to your list. Can I, can we have a meeting where I share something with you that will help you to have a better life? Yeah. I mean, that, that's really what we're after, right? Is to have the meetings be productive in that way. And when people get it and they realize the kind of investment that you're making in them, that you actually care about 'em and you do know who they are, and you do understand their career and personal aspirations, and you're asking them at work to do what they're good at and also what's gonna cause them to go farther with what they want and dream about in their life. Michael Smith: Why wouldn't I show up in a meeting that you hold at that point? 'cause I know I'm gonna get something outta it, right? Which, Carl Hutchinson: well, and so many of them are shocked that we want them to be better husbands or better. Wives or better partners or better fathers or whatever. And a lot of the things that we try to teach and do is not necessarily for their professional position. Carl Hutchinson: And it's how do we make them a better person? And I think if we can make 'em a better person, we've got a much better employee staff member, team player, whatever tag you wanna put on them. I try to, family members is really what I I don't know. It's kind of weird, but I think if we could, I think family members will call each other out faster than maybe coworkers. Michael Smith: And they enjoy it more, do they? Right. Carl Hutchinson: Well, yeah. Your brothers and sisters will pick on you. Depends on the family. Yeah. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Or you get blackball. I will say this, I feel like as a society, we've forgotten the importance of mentorship. Carl Hutchinson: Yes. And Kent Bullard: I think, you know, with the advent of the internet, you know, I talk about this a lot, but with the advent of the internet the dissemination of knowledge and information is now, you know. Kent Bullard: You've gotta go around on both sides because now it's easier for me to not have to go to somebody like Michael and ask him a question, but I can go online and Google an answer. But at the same time, it's also kind of a lot easier for the older generation to go, well, I mean, they can just Google it, so I'll focus my attention elsewhere. Kent Bullard: And you kind of have this like, separation and really the younger people really need that. And I think they know that, right? And so just reaching out and making that connection and saying, you know, I wanna mentor you, not just bark at you and tell you what has to happen, but really invest in them because that's what we've done generations prior. Kent Bullard: Yeah, Michael Smith: I like that. Mentorship. Go ahead Carl. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah, go ahead. I mean, when I come into the industry as a technician, you know, 40 years ago, everything has a 40 years slant to it now. I begged for a mentor. Yeah, I mean, and basically they just threw you into the deep end of the pool and you either, you know, swam or you sank. Carl Hutchinson: And I did not like that. I mean, I figured out how to swim, but I didn't swim well and I've been told that there's three things in my life and my professional life. There's the right way, the wrong way in Carl's way. Well, Carl's Way is because Carl learned it on his own, and he wasn't really taught anything. Carl Hutchinson: What it works, I mean, I tell my son a lot. It's says, well, he looks at some of the stuff that I do and as, but it works. I, and that's all I need to know is it works. So yeah, the right way, wrong way in Carls way. And so mentorship in our industry, I don't think really came along until maybe 20 years ago or 15 years ago, that we really started talking about apprentice programs and bringing people in and. Carl Hutchinson: Tutoring them. I mean, I think I'm a product of that. Like I said earlier in this was I was being what, I forget the word that I used. I was being I can't think of modified or groomed, that's where word was for groomed. I was being groomed for a position that I didn't know. The but we really need that in our industry and not just in our own houses. Carl Hutchinson: I, I really think that I've had a lot of great mentors that own businesses, other places, and I get to watch and see how they interact and how they d deal with their employees and how they deal with their hiring and I, how they deal with those things. So I think we need to be mentors for other. Carl Hutchinson: Businesses and in our groups. But in-house I think that's a huge thing. I think we're never gonna get our leadership teams to where we want 'em to be if we're not gonna mentor them, if we're not gonna bring 'em up, we're not gonna get our technicians to where they need to be if we don't have programs for them. Carl Hutchinson: And really I guess one of the bigger challenges is hiring the experience that wants to teach the ones. That's probably one of the bigger challenges that I've seen in our industry is the ones that have a lot of experience are not necessarily good at teaching. They say they will, but when they get in, you know, it's that culture. Carl Hutchinson: Well, I mean, they've had a, Kent Bullard: they've had a system that has predominantly rewarded them on them being the one that answers the question. And so there hasn't been any in my, you know, yes. Just as a guess here, I don't think there's been enough utility for them to teach others. Right, Carl Hutchinson: right. Yeah. And well, you're giving away their time to, to teach somebody else and you know, that's, you're back to that they're not making money. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. You Kent Bullard: know, not making Right. Hours on, right. Yeah. You're back to Carl Hutchinson: that. What's in it for me? And we have to figure out workarounds and I've I've learned a lot in that realm. I've learned a lot of things that you shouldn't do. Michael Smith: Well, I have a question for you. I haven't you haven about one out Carl Hutchinson: yet either, but we're still working on it and we're Can I Michael Smith: throw one thing in? Michael Smith: Yeah. Before we slide away from this one. I'll tell you what a number of the folks that I work with are finding the folks that have been in our industry for 25, 30, 35 years. And, you know, if you've been under a car for 30 years, your hands hurt, your back hurt, your knees hurt. There's folks that can't pull on a wrench the way they used to. Michael Smith: And, you know, in their minds while they're working every day is, what am I gonna do? I'm X age and what's my future look like? And I just wanna throw this out there. The older we get. The more it seems that the legacy questions become important to everybody, not just owners, and what's the legacy for your business, but also, you know, what you start to think about the people that helped you in life and the people that, that you wouldn't be where you are if it wasn't for them. Michael Smith: And it doesn't matter what your current job is or been seminal people in your life. You ask folks who are kind of wearing out, if you will, physically, mentally, emotionally, and you say to them what? What would you like to do next? The older we get, the more we tend to get a response. You know, I would like to help the next generation. Michael Smith: I'd like to pass along to the folks that are behind me and help them pay it forward. Like, you know, somebody paid it forward to me back in the good old days. And from that perspective, I just wanna throw that out there for thinking that, you know, there's a change in the mentality, I think, from this transactional industry that we've been in. Michael Smith: As we realize that humans are different today, they have a lower tolerance for BS at work, which may be a good thing. We also have a lower attention span, right? That means they don't, our younger generations tend not to be thinking about, oh, I'd like to spend 10,000 hours learning this. They're like, can I just find the hack on the internet and get there short way, the mentoring things up against it, but. Michael Smith: The folks that have got the experience would love to mentor, and in relationships that are healthy, the people who are new to the industry, it's nurturing and positive and productive to have a mentor. And so even though we're up against the social trends of the quick and easy, you find a hack and, you know, cut the corner and not really learn, but just go find the next hack online. Michael Smith: Next time you get into this genuine mastery conversation and both ends of the spectrum, it becomes meaningful very quickly. And I'm just throwing that in there. It's kind of a mystery, mysterious conversation when you first start having it. And people look at you like you're from another planet. But the more they think about it, it actually does match our developmental psychology, as you know, as adults from childhood to death, if you will. Michael Smith: And so it, it really does bring us back to how we're made. When we start talking about this and people aspire to it, I'm gonna say, and end here very quickly. Once you put it out there and they start to get it, they're like, you know what, I really like this suits me. And it does, it suits humans. Michael Smith: So just encouraging us on the backside of this, that this, even though it is becoming less of a common subject if you make it a subject that's more unique, but it's also very powerful human to human. So, Kent Bullard: so Michael, we're probably gonna have to do another podcast on this subject. Just, you know, this question I'm gonna ask you. Michael Smith: Sure. Michael Smith: But Michael Smith: I'll try to keep it short. Kent Bullard: What are how do I, how do, how does the youth, the younger generations find a mentor? That's Michael Smith: a great question, and I would I would ask, I, you know, here's the thing. I would, it's a little bit like we talk as owners about finding the rock stars, the unicorns, the champions to come work for us. Michael Smith: Sometimes you have to kiss some toads, and if you're a young person, and you, and I'm gonna say this Carl, you probably reflect on this too, when I'm running a business and a young person walks up to me and says, I want to learn to be great and I'm gonna ask you if you'll help me. Not a lot of people have that conversation. Michael Smith: And does that, I mean, that sticks out in my mind. I remember those people. I can count 'em on, you know, two hands after 40, almost five years of doing this. Right? And, but those people stood out and basically they were taking charge of their life and saying, I want, I'd like to ask you if it's not too much to ask, to spend some time with. Michael Smith: Me, and I'm not gonna be obnoxious about it. Whatever you're willing to give. But I would love to have that if you're a young person, go have that conversation with somebody who looks like they're respectable to you. And you may get into it and find out they're not Carl. Maybe one of those people that once you start mentoring and they close the door in the office and go, now how can we lie to the customer and cheat that one back so we don't end up losing all the money on that repair? Michael Smith: And you end up as the young person kind of walking away from that going, Nope, not for me. I mean, you're fully entitled to fire a menka too here, guys. Right? But I would ask Kent. I would just simply ask, and it's not, doesn't happen enough. It doesn't happen enough that's a wearing question. Michael Smith: It's an attractive one for an old guy. Let me Carl Hutchinson: jump in here. I think before you Yeah, go. Yeah, for sure. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Carl. So I don't think I've ever asked somebody to be my mentor. But I've sought them out. I have a handful locally and then. When we got into the group process many years ago, that's what you're asking for. Carl Hutchinson: I mean, you know, you're I didn't know that. I mean, I was trying to learn all the stuff that I thought I knew and didn't know, and then you realize you don't know it. But then all of a sudden you're thrust into this group of, and there's usually four or five of 'em in there that have achieved, and you just marry yourself to them. Carl Hutchinson: You just gravitate to them. I've never asked one of them to be my mentor, but it didn't take a whole lot to figure it out that all of my conversations were over here or over there, or, I understand this guy's. Good at marketing or I understand this guy is a good people person. I understand this person is a good process, procedure person, and you start marrying yourselves up with these people and all of a sudden they're your mentors. Carl Hutchinson: And you know, I have a lot of those and a lot of 'em have went on now out of the industry to do other things. And you don't. I think that's what you need to do. Don't be afraid to you know, I like the ask the question. I feel like I'm very bold and I do a lot of things, but I don't know that I would go ask somebody to be my mentor. Carl Hutchinson: That's our challenge. But I could sure be in the room with them enough that all I'll absorb what they're putting off, I'll absorb it. And honestly, I think that's one of the things that's gotten us to where we're at, is just being in the room with people that are so much smarter and they've been there, done that. Carl Hutchinson: Or you ask 'em a few key questions and all of a sudden now you've got an answer to something. I think we as business owners in this industry, have to make an environment of when you're hiring people in a, we've got people here that will help you. You're not gonna be stuck out on an island. It's not a, an individual sport here. Carl Hutchinson: This is if you're gonna come in at whatever level you're coming in at, there's somebody around here that probably has a little more experience and would be willing to help you get you out of that jam. I think that's the environment that we have to create whether we have an individual person that is the mentor, which we've had in the past, and or do we have a group of people that is a mentor? Carl Hutchinson: And I think that's where we're at right now as we go through this lean stage is we have a group, it's a group effort, and I think we're in a very much of a help everybody situation. So I think that's. The young people that are wanting to be in this industry, God bless 'em to come in. We want 'em here. Carl Hutchinson: But if I was coming into this industry, even with all the education that I think that you can get through the colleges, I think it's, you're just barely scratching the surface now. I mean, it was so different years ago. To come in now is there's it takes so much to spool up and be where we need you to be in four or five years. Carl Hutchinson: You know, I think you could be 4, 5, 10 years into this industry. Now, when I come into the industry, it only took you a year or six months. I mean, it just the gap is so much more now. You know, we're not learning about fuel ratios and compression ratios and stroke and bore and all, I mean. Carl Hutchinson: Honestly, it doesn't matter. We're learning about computer controls and, you know, how do your wipers work? And honestly, all this stuff is so computerized anymore that they have to be very intelligent. It's so, so the learning gap is a lot bigger now. I mean, it's takes a lot more. So I think the answer to the question is I think we have to be the ones that create the environment of you can come in here and learn even the master technicians that we hire, you're gonna come in here and learn. Carl Hutchinson: You may know more than everybody here, but you are, you're gonna come in here and learn because you're gonna learn and then you're gonna teach somebody else. So I think that's the environments that we have to create in this industry. So I think that's the answer. I love that. Yeah. Kent Bullard: So we're kind of getting at time here and I wanna do kind of a lightning round with you, Carl. Kent Bullard: Okay. Oh man. Is that fair? That's fair. These are gonna, some big questions come. I don't have to date you at the Carl Hutchinson: end of this, do I? Kent Bullard: No. I think so, so three questions. Okay. First one, how has focusing on the human side of your business changed you as a leader? Carl Hutchinson: It's made me more of a thoughtful leader. Carl Hutchinson: I think. I think I would have to ask the people around me. I think I've softened my position a lot on some of the, what I would call my demands or my requests. I think I hire differently now than what I did in the past. I think I interview a little differently. I think our conversations that we have maybe not quite structured as opposed to more getting to know you, finding out what you're wanting to do and can we marry that up with what we're trying to achieve. Carl Hutchinson: And really find out what's important to people. You know, 'cause that's, it's so different from employee to employee every, you, there's so many things that are different and finding out those things. So I think that's probably one of the biggest things that has changed me and honestly I'll give kudos to Michael on this one, is telling people that they are better than what they think they are because they've been told incorrectly. Carl Hutchinson: And to get that out of their heads. So every time I hear these negatives is to reinforce them with positives. And, you know, I think I'm also telling myself that as I'm telling them, because I've heard so many of these things over the years. I think we all have. So I think those are one of the biggest changes in the way I view what I do and our teams. Carl Hutchinson: Check that box. What Kent Bullard: advice? Yeah. What advice would you give to other leaders that are aiming to create a workplace culture that is gonna prioritize wellbeing and growth and personal development? Carl Hutchinson: Gosh, what advice would I get? I would think figure out what you want and who you are first. And I'm only saying this because I'm going through this myself. Carl Hutchinson: I thought I knew who I was, but I also know what we were portraying. And the two are different and I'm trying to figure out how to marry those. And I think we, and I think I'm going down that path. I think I'm starting to live that path a little better. So I think figuring out who you are and what you want to portray it is a team concept, but the team is only as good as the leader. Carl Hutchinson: So if the leader doesn't believe in what they're doing, I think we're really struggling right off the bats. And I'm just saying this because this is where I'm at. So once you figure out what you want and who you are, stick to your guns. I think that's it. Because there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna fall off the bus, the boat, whatever the heck you wanna call it. Carl Hutchinson: I think there's gonna be a lot of people that's going to fall off. They may not like the direction that you want to go, or they may not be willing to go where you're wanting to go. And that's some of the things that I've learned in this past year or so is, don't be afraid to lose some of the people because you will find people that will fill the void. Carl Hutchinson: Your people will fill that void and then you haven't found, you haven't hired the person yet. You haven't met the person that you need yet. And you'll get through it. And I think that's the biggest thing. And I'm only saying that because I have to speak that to myself. 'cause I'm in that boat. Carl Hutchinson: I'm in that same position as we're in this evolving position of really trying to figure out, well, I need to get back to our roots of where this business came from and get back to what got us here. And I think that's going to shake it up a little bit. And don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Carl Hutchinson: I think that's the best advice that I could give anybody at this point. Kent Bullard: I love that. Last question. You know, what do you hope to leave in your organization and your community and beyond for your legacy? Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. Legacy's a great thing. You know, and I'm trying to get away from these truth tapes that, that stuck in my head. Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. The old messages of the new one. The old messages, yeah. You know, the uneducated guy that, you know, you know, if you work really hard, you'll eventually get there. It might take 40 years, but you'll get there. And honestly, the legacy that I wanna leave is not about me. The legacy that I wanna leave is about those that I leave behind. Carl Hutchinson: The complete automotive name. I would love to see that. The rest of my life here on Earth and into the next generations and the next generations. But I think that's asking a lot. I think the legacy that I wanna leave when I step outta this industry is that we've left people behind that have the same passion, morals, and ethics and views that I have and that I've been brought up with. Carl Hutchinson: And I think that's the best legacy that I wanna leave because I just keep thinking that it's not about me. It's not about complete automotive, it's not about it's just not it. It's the people that are around us and the, and what we're gonna do. You know, I would, I like to be as famous as Coca-Cola or Disney prob. Carl Hutchinson: Then again, yes, but no, I'm not willing to put that much effort into it. So I think that's the legacy that I wanna leave, is the people behind me, they can be proud of what we've done and proud of what they're doing, that they're stepping into. I think that's probably the biggest, the best legacy that I could leave is not only for our community, for the people, but for our industry also. Carl Hutchinson: You know, I think there, there's a lot of people that come and go in this industry and there's a lot of people that do it dis disservice to it and really make it tough for the rest of us that are trying to do well and not just make money at it and not just whatever, you know, we're actually trying to grow people and to be a good service service to our community. Carl Hutchinson: So I really think that's a legacy that I really wanna leave. Legacy is a tough question because six months from now it might change, but I think that's where I'm at on, on this ones. That's what I want people to speak. At my funeral about, that's what I want people to speak about. Not only me, but the people that, that I've trained or brought in, that they have that same type of outlook on life. Carl Hutchinson: So, yep, Michael Smith: it'll play that out. Great answer. Kent Bullard: Well, from, you know, what it takes to hold a team accountable to our perspectives on failure, all the way to does, do you have a hobby? And what is it? This has been such a tremendous conversation. I definitely would love to bring you back, Carl, to dissect some of these things. Kent Bullard: Even just the idea of, you know, what is mentorship? How do we pursue it from both ends, I think would be a phenomenal conversation to have. Absolutely. This has been absolutely invaluable. Those of you who are listening to this and have found value in this conversation, please help share this with others like and share. Kent Bullard: It helps the algorithm, but most importantly, it gets this content to people who need it. If you want more information about what we do at the institute, you can find that at we are the institute.com. And Carl, thank you again so much for your time today. Carl Hutchinson: You're welcome. Truly, honestly I enjoy speaking about the industry. Carl Hutchinson: I don't necessarily like speaking about myself that much Michael Smith: for you. I start seeing in my room ears, which for clinical learning experiences, right? So. Right, right. Carl, this is awesome. Thank you. All Kent Bullard: of this, all of this is a part of a grander conversation. And again, those listeners out there who wanna join the conversation, please ask your questions. Let's continue this discussion in the comments below, and we'll see you guys in the next episode.  

170 - Ask Me Anything: Financial Education and What the Numbers Are Really Telling You November 19, 2025 - 00:55:59   Show Summary: This AMA with Cecil Bullard, Founder, and Wayne Marshall, CEO, dives deep into the financial realities shop owners face and how to interpret the numbers that drive the business. They open by addressing slow seasons and share practical strategies for building consistent car count long before the dips happen. Cecil and Wayne break down the roles of internet marketing, SMS outreach, community engagement and long-term relationship nurturing so owners stay top of mind when customers need help. They clarify how to build preferred customer programs, how to track ROI across marketing channels, and why added value attracts stronger clients than discounts. The conversation moves into financial structure as they explain proper P&L layout, separating labor categories, and how technician, advisor and admin expenses should flow through the business. From pay plans and KPIs to accrual vs cash accounting, they show how to read trends rather than reacting to one-month swings. They wrap with guidance on staffing, capacity-based sales goals, and why high-performing shops anchor their decisions in clear data rather than assumptions.   Host(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] - Cecil and Wayne kick off the AMA and dive into how shops should prepare for slow seasons long before they arrive. [00:01:27] - Cecil explains how pre-booking appointments and preferred customer programs stabilize car count. [00:03:03] - They discuss using events, community involvement and customer touch points to fill traditionally slow months. [00:05:25] - Wayne covers why consistent marketing beats stop-and-start efforts tied to car count. [00:06:52] - Cecil outlines the two sides of marketing: capturing today’s buyer and staying top of mind for future needs. [00:10:36] - They break down how preferred customer programs increase average repair order and long-term loyalty. [00:15:04] - Cecil explains why online marketing outperforms direct mail and how to watch ROI by channel. [00:20:31] - Wayne and Cecil clarify how to separate labor, parts and advisor costs correctly on a P&L. [00:23:37] - Cecil walks through target margins, expense percentages and the structure of a healthy composite. [00:33:55] - They discuss how to interpret financials using cash or accrual accounting without being misled by timing delays. [00:41:10] - Cecil shares staffing ratios, when to add admin roles and how to calculate their impact on labor rate and capacity. [00:43:20] - Cecil explains the daily KPIs he watches and why certain metrics should only be reviewed weekly or monthly. [00:52:14] - They address phone scripts, objection handling and how structured communication builds higher sales consistency.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/SZO3CTzcSoY?si=VCKqrUPSlAEeDBlV   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Cecil Bullard: Welcome to the Institute's Ask Me Anything. My name is Cecil Bullard, founder of the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and coach Presenter. And today we have with us Wayne Marshall, who is our relatively new CEO. And he does coaching with us. Also started out as a coach and then we. Cecil Bullard: Needed his help in some other areas, and so he got I, I don't know if I'd call it a promotion. It might be a demotion actually to. Wayne Marshall: Level of service. It's just a level of service. Cecil Bullard: If you are with us online we appreciate you being here. Please put your questions in the chat. I will do my best to pay attention, but we actually have a couple of people off site off camera that are looking at that, and they'll be popping those questions up as we, we need those. Cecil Bullard: I've got a few questions that were asked to start. Quick tips for when times are slow. I think marketing is always a bit of a challenge, Wayne and right now, I think because of the government slowdown, there was a period where, you know, about a month where things were a little slower. I'm gonna tell you, first of all, don't wait for times to be slow, to be marketing. Cecil Bullard: 'cause it's too late at that point in time. There are things that you can do if you have a good customer base. Number one book the appointment. Book the next appointment. You're the professional, you're the one that knows be like the dentist start booking your customer's next appointments, and if you want, give them a reason to do that. Cecil Bullard: At my shops, we had a preferred customer program and part of the preferred customer program was booking their next appointment when they needed to have the car in for service. We had a 6,000 mile. Six month service schedule for our clients. And so number one, start now booking the next appointment. Cecil Bullard: And if you do that, we had we had six to seven appointments booked per day and a 92% show up rate of our clients under that circumstance. I think there are some things you can do if you're already out there in social media or if you are. Regularly hitting your clients with some type of an email that they are looking at or opening or you're setting, sending some messaging through their texting. Cecil Bullard: I know that we looked at our pattern. So when were we traditionally slow? November had traditional October, November had traditionally been a slow time for our shops. When we looked at that, we. Looked at events that were going on. The city had a pretty big event in October and we supported that event. Cecil Bullard: We participated in that event and we actually did a shop where we had the event. We brought the event into our shop. And so we ended up having between three and 400 people in our shop in mid-October for an event between the Chamber and the BNI group that we belong to. And that made our Novembers our, that finished our Octobers out really strong and made our Novembers very strong. Cecil Bullard: So within a year we were able to, because we were aware of the fact that November was a slow month, we were able to do some things that made November a much stronger month for us. And actually November became one of our strongest months. I think if you're, it's like, oh no, I just don't have any cars. Cecil Bullard: There are things that you can do. We did a, I did a pizza thing once. I just called the, one of the local pizza shops and I said, I wanna buy 10 you know, large pizzas with everything on 'em. What's it gonna cost me? And I sent a message out to my clients, Hey you know, it's February's a little slow for us, so we're gonna do something we don't normally do. Cecil Bullard: If you make for the first 10 customers that make an appointment they're gonna get a large pizza at Giovanni's Pizza Place. And believe it or not, we made 19 appointments within about an hour. Sending that out. And it was funny 'cause I said 10, and when number 11 came on board, I said congratulations, you're number 10. Cecil Bullard: And when number, you know, 14 came on board, I said, congratulations, you're number 10. We booked 19 appointments. Now if you're doing stuff like that and you're doing it kind of continuously that you can't make a business on that. You need, a website company that does good, S-E-O-S-E-M good local search et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And you can't, I love the shops that say, Hey, we're really busy right now, so we're gonna cut our marketing. We don't do that even when we're busy. We don't cut our marketing, and especially when we're not busy, we don't cut our marketing. So, Wayne, do you have anything to add there? Wayne Marshall: We got a couple questions, but Yes. Wayne Marshall: On what you just shared, Cecil, you're correct. Consistency. People get busy, they quit marketing or like, Hey, I don't have to do this. I got car counts, I got bookings, you know, out three, four weeks. No, you gotta keep marketing. Be consistent. Keep the message going, stay top of mind, and you know, and as people talk when it comes to what works and what doesn't. Wayne Marshall: I see one of the questions was internet marketing versus SMS marketing more efficient. Some of that depends, and I always tell people, you know, kind of pay attention to what people are asking. If a customer comes in and it's part of your intake. What's one of the first thing your service advisors are asking? Wayne Marshall: How do you wanna be communicated with? Do you want me to call you? Do you want me to text you? Do you want me to email you? If you're being told that, well, I like to be text. Make a note of that because that's telling you that SMS marketing or text messaging them and doing other things might be more effective for that particular client over some other things. Wayne Marshall: So you've gotta look at your data, which you can get within your CRM. But yeah, the biggest thing is the consistency of what you're doing and how you're doing it. And don't stop. Don't stop. And Cecil Bullard: so I, in that particular question that we just had you know, internet or SMS I'd like to answer that question a little more completely. Cecil Bullard: There's two types of things that I'm trying to do with marketing. Number one, I want to capture the person that needs auto repair. So that person is going to, if they don't already have a shop, they're gonna go online and they're either gonna go to Google or one of the search engines and they're gonna say, you know, where do I find. Cecil Bullard: Toyota repair or Toyota service, or how do I find someone to check my check engine light or whatever that is. That's someone that has a problem today, money in their hand, and they're looking for somebody that is internet marketing. And that's one aspect of who I'm trying to find. Right? And so I need to have that. Cecil Bullard: But I'm, I also. Need to be top of mind. And that is more SMS marketing is more top of mind. So social media is more about getting my name out there so that when you need something, you remember my name, you know who I am. So, you know, if you if you never thought about coaching and you said to yourself, all of a sudden, oh my God, I'm going broke. Cecil Bullard: I need a coach. And you went online and said, you know, who are the best coaches? You know, I'm going broke. How do I find a coach? I want to show up there. I want the institute to come up there. But I also want you to have seen things about the institute. So our YouTube channel, our our social media stuff that we do our regular emails being a part of our institute group. Cecil Bullard: Because when you go to look for that coach, I want you to say, oh. Those institute guys, I've heard about them. I know who they are. I feel comfortable with them, and I'm, and that makes you more likely to then select me and show up at my place. So it, marketing is not necessarily one or the other. Cecil Bullard: Marketing is, you know, I'm probably doing seven or eight things at any given time. So I have a website that's maintained by somebody that knows how to do that. I have sEO, search engine optimization, et cetera. I have social media. I, I book the, my customer's next appointment. I work within the community. Cecil Bullard: I'm involved with BNI, chamber, rotary things like that. And so I, I also have a CRM that is sending my customer database information routinely. Maybe three, four times a month. Once a week a client will get something from me that reminds me that I, them, that I'm here and it reminds me of their name. Cecil Bullard: So marketing is. I mean, I believe first of all that most shop owners are not qualified to do their own marketing. We love to, we're do it yourselfers. And I would just tell you, how do you feel when one of your clients who's not qualified to work on their car, works on their car, then brings it to you and says, oh, it won't run, fix it. Cecil Bullard: Right. And yet we kind of do the same thing. I need to have someone that knows what they're doing, do my marketing, and I believe that marketing is an important part of a long-term successful business that makes a profit consistently. Okay. So, Hey Michael, you got another question for me there, brother? Cecil Bullard: Eric Se, and by the way, I think that was Cheyenne if I mispronounce your name. Thank you for that question. Cheyenne. We have Eric seven. Hey Eric. Good to hear from you Bob, brother. Can you speak more about preferred customer program? What is the reason what you think most people booked and came back in? Cecil Bullard: Our preferred customer program gave our client two car washes a year, two loaner cars a year. We did a windshield treatment as part of a preferred customer program, and we did bring the price of our minor service, which at the time 12 years ago, 14 years ago, was $165 down by $25 as a preferred customer. Cecil Bullard: And the reason why. Was because we knew when preferred customers came in that their average apparator was a few hundred dollars higher than our normal, average appar of 800, whatever it was at the time. And so we were able to say if I gave them $25 as part of that program I asked everyone at the counter, if you wanna be a preferred customer my. Cecil Bullard: Service advisors asked every single person, Hey would you like to become a preferred customer? We'd like to hear about that program. I think we even had some buttons printed that said, ask us about our preferred customer program, et cetera. And so then they said, well, okay, what is it? And we said, well, we give you to loaner cars and to car washes. Cecil Bullard: So when your car comes in, we wash it. When you leave it, you have a clean car, which by the way. We did anyway, so all by putting it into a preferred customer program, we made it more formalized and we printed a card out for them that was a punch card that they had. And frankly, if you didn't bring your punch card, I'd still give you a loaner car or whatever if you were a preferred customer because you were gonna spend $1,100 on your car every time you came in. Cecil Bullard: And so by creating a preferred customer program, I was also during that conversation, able to say and preferred customers book and keep their next appointment within, you know, 30 days. So, you know, we're gonna schedule an appointment for you six months from now. We don't, we know you don't know what you're doing and so, we're gonna send you a message three weeks before and three days before we're gonna call you. Cecil Bullard: And if we need to reschedule, it's not a problem. We just need to know that three days before so we can plan our schedule and then we just reschedule 'em. And and so that was our preferred customer program and I think it was a really good, thing, no, I did not incentivize, I did not incentivize my service advisors to book future appointments or reward them part of their pay plan. Cecil Bullard: I mean, my service advisors, you know, again, 14 years ago, were making 150,000 a year. They were getting paid exceptionally well. So, you know, there are things I'm an old guy. You can tell the white hair et cetera, and, you know, I just. Sometimes feel like it's your job, right? And so we book our customer's next appointment and we had an expectation of that and that was part of the job and it became a process and a habit that we did all the time with our clients. Cecil Bullard: So thank you again, Eric, for the follow up. Anything else to add there, Wayne? Wayne Marshall: No. But I agree with you. It's their job. And they get incentivized by selling the service, the work on top of what they're already doing. So it's about building it for everybody. Everybody wins type of thing, but that's part of their job. Cecil Bullard: The other. The other part of that is, is preferred customers are more likely to buy. Their easy, easier to handle. You already have trust with them, so they're better for the service advisor. It's just easier to deal with that particular person all the way through. So if you don't have a preferred customer program, man, I would certainly think about that as part of what I do. Cecil Bullard: Let's throw another one in. So this is if I mispronounce your name, just ignore it. I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm gonna say Isa Tola, how often do you send out mailers and how often do you send text blasts? We use shop Genie and Tech Metric. I don't, I'm not a big mailer fan. And so today I look at return on investment on mailers and return on investment on dollars spent online. Cecil Bullard: And I was just looking at with a client yesterday. I think online we have a. Almost a five to one return on investment. On our lowest and on our highest, we have about an 18 to one return on investment on our online marketing dollars spent on our direct mail or mailers. We have like a half a percent, like a one to one ROI, maybe a one and a half to one ROI. Cecil Bullard: So if I have a thousand dollars or $2,000 and I can spend it here and get $3,000 back, or I can spend it. Over here and get $5,000 back. I'm always gonna spend it where I can get $5,000 back. If you are gonna do text messaging or emails to your client base, one of the things you have to be concerned with is I don't want to send so many emails that they take me out of the system. Cecil Bullard: And I would tell you that if you're sending probably more than two a week. That's probably too many and you're gonna get pulled from the system. So, you know, I kinda like maybe four a month, one a week. And sometimes that's difficult from our end because we'll have, you know, our normal stuff. Then we'll have some special thing like we're gonna do this event and that. Cecil Bullard: And we'll have a class at the same time. So you might see two or three from the institute in a week, but you're not gonna see two or three from the institute in a day. 'cause we know you're gonna X this out. So you wanna be careful about how mu often you hit your clients and you don't want to overload that. Cecil Bullard: You also don't want to, primarily if I'm going to use discounts as a way to bring people in. I don't wanna use discounts with the customers I already have because they're the ones that are most likely to spend the most money. I want to use discounts if I'm going to with the customers. I don't have as a reason for someone to come in and try us out. Cecil Bullard: And I still, even though if I'm gonna do that, I'm still talking about added value. Things like loaner cars and rental cars and great warranties and things like that, both on my website and in anything I'm gonna do. Wayne, back to you, brother. Yeah, Wayne Marshall: I guess the thing I would say, as we all know, if I'm sending an email or a text. Wayne Marshall: You have to give people the option to opt out. So pay attention to your data. If you're sending out with frequency and you're not, you're seeing low opt-outs, you're probably okay. But if all of a sudden your frequency goes up and you start seeing a lot more people drop out, that's telling you, look, they're opting out because they're getting too much. Wayne Marshall: The other thing when it comes to frequency of, and what you're doing, be it direct mail or anything. The reason certain things work better over others sometimes just comes down to what the offer is. And so again, pay attention to what the data's telling you. If I offer X and I see this return and I offer Y and I don't see as good and I offer Z and it's really bad, well obviously don't do Z again, but think about what's working and what responses you're getting. Wayne Marshall: Same with direct mail. You know, I tell people if you send a direct mail. Piece on anything. It doesn't have a good call to action that you can see that card, you know, bring this card in for X and they don't bring the card back in. You're still gonna honor it, but, you know, get good data of what's working and what's not. Wayne Marshall: Too many people just throw it out there and then don't track it. And that's the biggest thing of, you know, if you're gonna do it, track it, get the data, understand what's working and what's not. Cecil Bullard: And I think you get the excuse, I've heard the excuse. Well, it's kinda hard to tell if they came online. And so anyone that came to me and said, Hey, I found you on the web, I ask a second question. Cecil Bullard: Do you mind, you know, if I ask you another question, what. Specifically directed you to us. And that helps me determine, and then I get the best data I can and I make the best decisions. Wayne is talking about like AB testing, meaning that I have two messages that I send out and then I see what the return is. Cecil Bullard: So this is one offer, this is another. And when we're talking offers, an offer can be a lot of things. It doesn't have to be a discount or a. You know, $25 off or something like that. It can be you know, if you come in off of this, you get a pizza, it can be if you come in off of this, you're gonna get a extended warranty on your card added value services. Cecil Bullard: And I always believed, and I think the data supports that customers that are attracted to added value services are better customers that will spend more money on their car than per se customers that are attracted by discounts. Okay. I don't know what the next question is, Wayne, but why don't you let's see. Wayne Marshall: Well, Levi, I've good to see you're with us. Levi had the privilege to talk to you and Sally I'm a firm believer and I think Cecil, you will agree, you need to separate those out on your p and l because your tech pay is part of what you're doing when it comes to the services being offered. And that's gotta be part of that cost when we're looking at our gp. Wayne Marshall: The other costs that you have for advisors, that's an expense that's part of your overall operating expense. So when we start talking about those ratios of trying to get to 63 to 65% gp, your tech pay is in that top with the parts, what the revenue was minus these things. So you can see where. That return is coming and the advisors, yeah, I wanna show them separate. Wayne Marshall: That's the cost of doing business as part of your overall overhead and expense of operation. Wanna Cecil Bullard: add? They also, yeah, they also have different margins. So my, my. And I also want to measure my business based on, you know, parts and labor and based on sales expense and marketing expense. Even. I look at my banking expense cost separately than all the other exp expense. Cecil Bullard: I don't just put that in the fixed expense pile because I want to know that I'm not paying, you know, three and a half percent for my credit cards. I want to know that I'm paying. 1.8 because there are companies that will get me 1.8 and if I'm gonna run a million dollars through credit cards, you know, 1.2, that's a substantial amount of additional profit for my company. Cecil Bullard: Let me draw this out. We kind of got a new thing so. I'm going to draw this out with my unsteady hand. One sec here Wayne Marshall: with this is on, it's been a pay plan for service advisors, so you could probably do a little of this at the same time. Cecil Bullard: Right. So I have parts in labor here, and I want parts to be about 18% of my sales. Cecil Bullard: And I want a margin on my parts of about 50 8%. If I don't break it out, I can't tell what the margins are and I also don't know what percentage of sales it is. My labor cost, which is my tax, and we'll call that a loaded labor. My tech cost is gonna be about 20% of my sales and I want my margin on my tax loaded FICA feta workers' comp to be about 64%. Cecil Bullard: And then also my parts should be about 45% of what I sell, and my labor should be about 55%, and that would give me a cost of goods of 38%. I'm sorry. If my writing's a little sloppy and an overall margin gross profit of about 62%. Now, by the way, that's 62% with my labor cost in there. That's not 62%. Cecil Bullard: Only with parts cost and no labor cost. And then under here, then I have marketing, I break marketing out so I can measure it better. That's marketing, by the way, if you're online, let's see here. Let me let me see if I can't make that a little clearer for you. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, that's marketing and I want that to be somewhere between six and 9% of sales. I have my sales cost, my service advisors, whoever's selling, and that's a loaded cost also. And I want that between eight and 10% of. My sales and then fixed expenses, which I will break up if you're one of our clients, will break up into about 12 categories. Cecil Bullard: Fixed expenses would be 25% of my sales, which would leave me a net of just about 20% to about 24. And so that's the breakdown of what we're trying to accomplish. All right, so, we had the, another question, I think about pay plans. Yep. Where'd Wayne go? There you are. So, why don't you take the next question here, Wayne, while I try to erase the board and so it might be ready for another use here. Wayne Marshall: The, well, the question was what's good incentive pay plan for service advisor? And I'm gonna default back to you, you're the master of, and I know pay Cecil Bullard: plans, Wayne Marshall: we'll explain it quicker, faster than I would be able to. Cecil Bullard: So, you know, there's a bunch of theory behind how you pay people and you want pay plans that are motivational, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: I think if you're watching online and you're looking at changing the industry podcast or in that you're hearing about, a lot of techs complain about things like flat rate or and you're hearing maybe owners complain about hourly. Because hourly has no motivation to do more. Because if I do more, I'm still paid whatever I'm paid. Cecil Bullard: So a salary or an hourly to me is not motivational to the employee. Flat rate is certainly motivational to the employees that can be motivated by money. But flat rate puts the whole load of the shop whether or not I have cars and work and flow on the shoulder of the technician, which I don't believe is fair. Cecil Bullard: And so what you need is a blended program where we know that because I'm gonna have 20% of my sales be tech pay loaded, I could say to myself, you know, I'm gonna sell an hour's worth of labor. I happen to be $150, I have $30 an hour to pay that tech under that $150 an hour labor. So, that's all I can have. Cecil Bullard: So it, I can't, excuse me. Hang on. Go back. There's two different things that we're talking about and I just got 'em mixed up of my. Total sales, 20%. So if I'm $150 an hour and I'm close to 50 50 parts in labor, I'm $300 an hour and I can afford to pay 20% of that out to a technician, which would be $60 an hour loaded. Cecil Bullard: If I'm $150 an hour as my effective labor rate. I can afford to pay almost 40% of that, about 36. And so that would give me $70 an hour or so to pay a technician. If I hold effective labor rate very close to or above whatever my post-it rate would be at say one 50. So somewhere between, I don't know, $60 and $70 an hour loaded is what I have to pay. Cecil Bullard: That technician that does that work, that gives me eight hours a day. I want to give my technician you know, Maslow says people that are not worried about food, shelter, things like that, can think about God and science and how to do the job better, et cetera. So I want to give my technician somewhere around 60% of what I can afford to pay them. Cecil Bullard: So I can afford to pay $60 an hour loaded. Unload that it's somewhere around 50. So I've got a $30 an hour base rate, and I do that particularly on the clock. It's kind of like my minimum guarantee for that person. Now I have another $12, $15 that I can build in. To a bonus plan for my tech. And so what do I want from a tech? Cecil Bullard: That's what I have to think about. And I would tell you that it doesn't matter what position you're looking at, service advisor, tech manager, parts person just did a shop foreman pay plan. The shop foreman's job is to make sure that the shop is productive and that the techs are getting educated and the problems are being handled, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: So if I can. Tie in the bonus structure to what I want from a shop foreman that 12, $15 an hour, then I'm gonna get more of the behavior that I want with a technician. I really want three things. I want a technician to be productive so the more hours they put out in a day up to and above eight hours of. Cecil Bullard: Of time and since we are use, most shops are using a multiplier on book time. We should be able to get, if we're. Eight hours a day there, I should have a decent tech be able to give me 10 that I can bill out because of the 20 to 30% multiplier I'm using on time. And so I'm gonna pay them, you know, based on that's gonna be part of their bonus. Cecil Bullard: And I usually put three different levels of productivity where it's a dollar, an hour plus another dollar, an hour plus another $2 an hour. And then I want. Quality of work. And for me, quality of work comes from someone that's being educated, has experience, et cetera. So I want certifications either from the manufacturer, the cars that they're working on or from a SC at this point in time. Cecil Bullard: And I know we could argue about a SC and the validity and what it means, but I think that a guy today that, you know, takes the test, takes the time to take the test and. And seeks that out, is trying to do a better job and is gonna have more knowledge. And I like that. I also have a, so I have a bonus based on maybe being a master tech. Cecil Bullard: There's a couple dollars an hour, I have a bonus on eight to 12 hours of education per quarter. So if you're getting classes and you're taking them I'm gonna pay you another $2 an hour in your bonus structure. And the, so I might have 12 to $15 an hour built in bonuses for that person. And they get that based on production. Cecil Bullard: So I could have a guy come in and spend 40 hours on the clock and only produce 30 hours. He's gonna lose six bucks an hour in his bonus structure, but they're still. The potential to earn six, but he's gonna earn six from education and training and, you know, maybe a longevity you've been here for a while or a comeback you know, standard that you put in place. Cecil Bullard: And but he's gonna earn six on 30 and now the same guy comes back and the next week he produces 50 hours in a 40 hour week. He gets the $6 for productivity. He gets his $30 an hour, he also gets another six for the other bonus stuff, and now he's made 12 times 50. So $600 in a week. As an additional bonus, over and above the $30 an hour, he got paid as a base rate. Cecil Bullard: And I'm gonna put, so wherever I build pay plans, I'm thinking about what do I want from this person? And the motivational part, which is the bonus structure part, is going to be built around what I need from that particular position. And frankly, you know, someone mentioned to you, bonus, your service advisors for booking appointments. Cecil Bullard: Well, maybe I do. Maybe that's one of the bonus things that, that's a dollar an hour or that's a percentage of sales. You know, you get 0.05% of your sales based on the fact that you booked 90% of the clients in for a ne their next appointment. Or something like that. And I would also tell you that the rules around pay plans a whole nother class. Cecil Bullard: We have that online [email protected], but the rules around pay plans, I have to have a bonus that is enough to motivate and change behaviors. So. Here I am a, you know, a master tech in your shop. You're paying me $40 an hour and, or maybe you're paying me 60, whatever, right? And that's all well and good. Cecil Bullard: And now you're gonna gimme a bonus. And if I work much harder, you're gonna gimme a dollar an hour. That doesn't motivate me. In fact, that's almost insulting. So you have to have bonuses that are substantial. I need to make it so that a tech could earn another $2,000 a month. If they do what I want. Cecil Bullard: And then the other thing is the more productive your techs are, the better quality of work. The more flow, the more you sell, the more money I have to pay the tax. And when you overcome a hundred percent productivity and you start to get into the 110 and 120% productivity outta your tax, I have a lot more money than I can pay tax at that point in time. Cecil Bullard: And that's why we structure those pay plans in that way. Okay. I probably, I hope I answered the question well. If not that we do have a pay plans class [email protected]. And there's other YouTube stuff that we have at our YouTube channel. That would get you there and give you some more information. Cecil Bullard: Melissa Velazquez, thank you very much. When looking at your financial information, I find it difficult to navigate the issue of vendor expenses lagging behind a month from the revenue. March vendor bills are being paid in April, so it seems a bit skewed. So I'm gonna make Wayne, this is more, I mean, this is good for you, so I'm gonna let you. Cecil Bullard: Answer this, and I hope you're gonna talk about cash versus accrual. And if I am doing cash, which is what we're talking about here. Wayne Marshall: Yes. I Cecil Bullard: need a, I need a bigger picture, like three months to kind of get the feel of what's really there. So, go ahead Wayne. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Melissa, in, in the question, it's looking like what you're lagging. Wayne Marshall: And so if a bill comes in on March 31st and you've done the service, you've done the work, you've invoiced the customer, so the customer's paid for that part, and then you get the invoice and you know, obviously a few days later from the parts vendor. And then you pay that invoice in April. If you're posting it and you're showing it in April, that's being, you're doing it on your cash flow and you're doing it based on cash basis. Wayne Marshall: If you're on an accrual, you're, you are accruing that expense. So if you've received the revenue, you're gonna accrue the expense and still show it in March, even though you paid it in April. So it really comes down to how are you setting your books, and if you're setting your books on cash basis. You're right, it will have a lag. Wayne Marshall: If you're setting your books as accrual. You accrue that expense even though you paid it, it's still gonna go back and show it. It's all part of what you carry as work in process or whip. And then you also have the cost of goods and services once you close out your invoice. So depending on your shop management software that you are using. Wayne Marshall: You can choose which one you wanna do, which will also change how you choose because of like if you're tied back to QuickBooks, you can decide and you can click it on and off if you want to be cash basis or if you want to be accrual basis. So that question as I read it, and as I think about what you're asking really comes back to how you're setting your books. Wayne Marshall: And that's what we try to address and try to talk about. So maybe we didn't, it's something for us to go back and look at our material, but it'd be a little more, I guess, specific on the differences and why you would do what you're doing and how that does affect your cash flow. Cecil Bullard: A lot of shops do an accrual base accounting because they do get a lot of their bills in the next month. Cecil Bullard: Many shops, however, do a cash basis accounting, so they wait till they get their bills. Then they push that expense back into the previous month so they can get a clearer picture of what really happened in the previous month. And that's a great way to do accounting, frankly. On the other hand, you may say to yourself, wow, that's a lot of work and a lot of trouble. Cecil Bullard: And so if you're going to run a, an accrual, or excuse me, a cash basis accounting, you don't wanna necessarily look at one month, you wanna look at maybe a three month period as your norms. And that'll help you understand because every month you'll carry parts pricing or you'll carry some of your expenses into the next month. Cecil Bullard: And if you see a bigger picture, like a quarterly picture, it'll give you a more accurate data to make better decisions. So, and you know, I don't know that accrual or cash basis, some people probably tell you accruals a little more difficult because you are going. You know, f for starting here and moving that back into the previous month. Cecil Bullard: But once you set it up and once you decide to do it that way. It's really pretty simple and pretty automatic if you have an accounting company or a bookkeeping company that does that for you. All right, Nicole Weller. Thank you. Nicole. What is the best way to know how many admin people you need in your business and how do you calculate their salaries? Cecil Bullard: How many admin people do I need? I think in my shop we did. 2.6 million with Fourex. This is again, 14 years ago. So, we ha obviously you need someone to do accounting. We had a part-time bookkeeping person on staff that also helped with phones. I had a parts person and with those four techs and I had two service advisors and I was the manager so. Cecil Bullard: You know, you look at that and you say, wow, that seems like it could be a little top heavy, except we had a very high average repair order and we had 120% productivity. So the four technicians did the work of five. And I think what happens if you have more than two techs per service advisor is that you'll, if you're paying attention, you'll see that your average apparator is starting to drop and customers are starting to be penciled out further and further. Cecil Bullard: So my car count might even drop in a day. Because my service advisor is overwhelmed and my customer service is going down because I have too many cars for that person to deal with. And so I like one service advisor to two techs. Now I've gotta have accounting people in my business and I think, you know, you might say, well, wait a minute, I'm a really small business. Cecil Bullard: We only have one tech, and I'm the owner. And so I'm either I'm doing the accounting or my wife's doing the accounting fine. At that point in time, that's what you're gonna do. But there probably is a point in time where you look at yourself and you say to yourself, okay, I've got two service advisors and four technicians in my business, and my two service advisors are having a hard time keeping up with estimating and selling and flow in the shop, which is one of the things that just kills. Cecil Bullard: Productivity and profitability for automotive shops, and so am I gonna hire another service advisor? Or if I hired a parts person and they took that off the shoulders of my service advisors, would that give me higher average repair orders and higher flow? I, I do know, frankly, that I look at what a shop does and I say, okay, a manager of a shop that's gonna do say 3 million in sales, that's probably someone that's gonna get paid somewhere between one 20 and 200,000 a year, maybe even two 50. Cecil Bullard: If the margins are right, the productivity's right, and the profits are right. Again. Now I'm building a pay plan for that manager where 40% of their pay is gonna come from margins and productivity and sales, as opposed to, Hey, you're just there, making sure people do what they're supposed to do. And then, you know, for my techs, like I said technicians 20% of sales were. Cecil Bullard: You know, about 36% of my effective labor rate for my service advisors. 10% of sales, eight to 10% of sales loaded. And then if I'm gonna have a parts person, it would depend on the size of the business as to what I could or would pay that parts person. And if I did hire a parts person, I would increase my labor rate. Cecil Bullard: So that I could pay for that parts person and not take that outta my pocket. And so I couldn't hire a parts person at a shop that had one tech and one service advisor because I don't have the money, the flow, or any of it built up to have that. You know, that parts person. So, you know, I want to keep my admin expenses in that 25%. Cecil Bullard: And by the way, in that 25% of fixed expenses, I also have banking costs, debt costs management costs, my salary for managing the shop and the truck and the insurance and the. Liability insurance and, you know, everything else is in that pile, the building and the equipment and, you know, debt et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And so I want to have a fairly comprehensive composite. It's not just my p and l, but another way to look at my financials. To help me understand what those percentages are and to manage those percentages. We call that a composite. And all of our clients have one of those, or have the ability to have one of those. Cecil Bullard: Okay. I, again, I hope I answered that question. Didn't create too much confusion. So, ia Tola, what are the top four KPIs you'd like to see in your operation? And does each KPI pay the team individually? I'll answer the second part of that as not necessarily. And I'll answer the first part of that in, there's more than four KPIs that I want to see. Cecil Bullard: So there's the daily KPIs that I like to see. What did we sell? What did we close, what did we finish? What, how much money came in? I like to see productivity daily and I like to see opportunity, what did we find on the cars and and what our average repair order is. Those are five KPIs that I look at every single day. Cecil Bullard: Now you notice I'm not looking at margin daily. And the reason I don't look at margin like parts margin or labor margin daily is because I could have a, an engine that closes today with a 35% parts margin. And I look at that and I go, oh my God, we are, we're not getting our margins, blah, blah, blah. I personally did not look at margins parts margin or labor margin on a daily basis. Cecil Bullard: I looked at that on a weekly basis and a monthly basis through my composite and through my p and l. And what you hope is that you have processes for estimating in play that will hold your parts margin and will hold your labor margins because of the processes that you've built within the business. Cecil Bullard: So I gave you my daily five. I would add cell rate into my weekly. What are we selling of the opportunity that we have, what the techs are finding on the cars. I look at that because you know, a bad attitude at the service counter, all of a sudden my average repair order and my cell rate will drop. Cecil Bullard: And that's just somebody having a bad day or maybe having a bad week. You, you just don't know. We had a cell rate and an A RO drop. And cost us $3,000 in sales a day for three days. First day I didn't worry about it. Can't, you know, short, small amounts of data are not, you don't wanna make tough decisions on small data. Cecil Bullard: Second day it made me nervous. By the third day it was, I go, we have a problem here. Went to my service advisors, brought 'em in, had conversations with them about selling. One of the service advisors, very defensive. Calmed that down, said, Hey, you know, I just need you to really focus on sales. We gotta bring these things back up. Cecil Bullard: Sent 'em out of my office. The average apparator went up by $400 and et cetera. And then I found out three months later that the day that our sales dropped. His wife served divorce papers on him. Didn't find out right there. He didn't want to tell me he was whatever, embarrassed, whatever it was I found out later. Cecil Bullard: But because I'm watching that number and I'm paying attention to that number on a daily basis, I was able to potentially probably save us maybe a hundred thousand in sales during a three month period that I would've dropped if I wasn't paying attention to those KPIs. And then we have a class I hate to keep, you know, but we do have a class. Cecil Bullard: It's, I think it's called Everything you Need to Know about Numbers and Profit in our gear for shops.com. It's not very expensive. I think it's about four hours, and it's all the formulas, all the KPIs, what you need to look at, et cetera. And that'll give you a much deeper dive than we can do here into that next question there, and I think we got about 10 minutes left, so we probably could do a couple more questions. Cecil Bullard: Hey Andrew. How you doing brother? Wayne, why don't you why don't you go there? Sure. Wayne Marshall: I was looking at this question as they're showing up early for us. Andrew, and yes, I always look at it, it depends on, again, if you're building out a budget or a cashflow projection, you gotta work on averages. Wayne Marshall: The big thing is, and I think this plays into, and it's a little bit of what we got talking about earlier when Cecil was talking about credit card expenses. You know, if you're paying X or Y and you're seeing certain trends and you're looking at that as a percentage back to your overall revenue. Yeah, that's where you want to go. Wayne Marshall: You know that you're gonna spend somewhere around one point a half to 1.8% in credit card expense. You don't know how much it's gonna be. It's gonna go up one month, depending on how many people charge to them, what people don't charge the next month. So put in the average, do that percentage. Same with utilities. Wayne Marshall: Look, there's so many different expenses that we have that have variability. So what I would do when I had my own business. I plugged everything in and I said, look, this is what my average is based on. I think sales are gonna be a hundred thousand dollars. I think I'm gonna run one and a half percent for credit card expense, so I'm gonna put 1500 bucks. Wayne Marshall: It's that easy. Same with your utilities as you. And then when you look at things quarterly, when you run your p and ls balance sheets, those quarterly reports, a lot of that settles out. So those ups and downs that you get from month to month now start settling out. You can see trends, you can see averages, and then really decide what you want do or not do. Wayne Marshall: If you need to tweak something or change up what your sales goal needs to be and some of the things that are gonna be done, which plays back into a lot of what Cecil was just talking about, of what different KPIs to look at, what are some of the different trends, and this all plays in that if you're seeing something go here or here Yeah, you wanna pay attention, do I need to change it? Wayne Marshall: Is it just something that happened for those few days? Or do I got a bigger problem that's systemic because we don't have whatever in place that gives us the right checks and balances. Cecil Bullard: I, I would also add to that sales goals are not necessarily only set on what my expenses are. I mean, that's one portion of it. Cecil Bullard: I want to set sales goals based on, hey, I came in this business because I want a certain amount of profit. I also want to set sales goals based on my capacity. So if I have three technicians and I'm $200 an hour, and my parts delivery ratio are. You know, 1.8 eight, 8.8 in parts for every hour of sales. Cecil Bullard: I of labor I sell that's $360 an hour times three guys times, eight hours a day. Times 1,960 days, which is what a average technician will work taking a month off for holidays and vacation. And then I want to know what that number is, which is probably today. Two, two point something, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 million. Cecil Bullard: And I wanna set my sales goal based on that because if I'm paying the tech a certain amount of money, a certain percentage of that is going to my tech, but my sales aren't enough. Then all of a sudden my fixed expenses become more as a percentage, my costs become more as a percentage, and I won't make the profit that I need. Cecil Bullard: And again, I hate to say it, but man, if you really want to understand this and dig deep into it everything you need to know about numbers and profit. I'd take it and watch it five times because I'm setting my goals, not just based on what my expenses are. Obviously I have to cover my expenses and I want them to be 25% without parts labor sales cost or marketing cost. Cecil Bullard: Because I want that 20% net. But I'm also looking at, well, I've got the capacity to do 2.4. If I only do 1.6, then my margins, my, my labor margin's gonna be very low and I will not make the profit that I wanna make. I have to know what my capacity is, and I have to set the target in sales to hit that capacity at least at a hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: And I can't say more. It's last question. I think, and then we'll wrap it up. We're gonna do this again next month. Do you phone script, huh? Yes. I think phone scripts are great. We have oh, I hate to say it, but we have a, you know, becoming great on the phones class. That, that is I think a four hour class, very inexpensive on gear for shops.com that will tell you how to do all the phone, you know, how to think on the phone, how to answer the phone, how to book appointments, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And I think phone scripts are great. To start. And I think, you know, everybody should have a script. We answer the phone in a very specific way, you know, put a smile on our face which I'm looking at myself and I haven't been smiling much this morning, but I'm gonna answer the phone, so I'm gonna think of a great joke. Cecil Bullard: Let me do that. Oh yeah, that's funny as heck. Good morning. Thank you for calling Larry Autoworks. This is Cecil. How can I help you today? That's a script. Okay? And that's a script that I want everyone answering the phone to use every single time that way with a smile on their face. I think you need to have scripts for people that you're training so that they understand the basics and so that they could do it. Cecil Bullard: How do I sell a coolant flush? How do I sell a brake, flush, or brake service? You know, how do I answer? Well, that's too much. Or I can get it cheaper somewhere else. I, that's a script that once I look at the common objections that I have on the phone. Then I write scripts for those common objections, and I teach those to my staff that is gonna be dealing with those things and then they make it their own. Cecil Bullard: So, for me it's, I want you to use the phone script enough that it's part of who you are. And then I want you to make minor adjustments to that based on your personality or on who I'm talking to. And so we're gonna make some adjustments to those phone scripts. Phone scripts can't be. Well, we're gonna do this a hundred percent of the time every single time. Cecil Bullard: That's exactly what we're gonna do, except for, and people don't like you gotta be genuine. It's gotta be you. Yeah. So, yes I absolutely love phone scripts, but ultimately I want you to follow the script, 80%. And be genuine and move around a little bit based on who you're talking to and based on your own personality and style. Cecil Bullard: My style, I'm a much more direct person. I'm always gonna be more direct. Your phone script, if you're a. You know, if you're a supporter or if you're a interpersonal is never gonna fit me completely. And so I have to make adjustments to your phone script to fit my director style. Alright we are gonna do this again next month. Cecil Bullard: Michael, you're gonna put the date of that up there, I assume. And if you would like to have a business evaluation, business review. No charge, no commitment, et cetera. We're gonna put up a QR code for that. Man, I thank you all for your time today. I thank you for your questions. I think Wayne, you're not gonna be with me next time, but Michael Smith will be here. Cecil Bullard: It might Wayne Marshall: three of us, Cecil Bullard: so yeah. All, all right. That'd be great. Then somebody's never gonna get to talk, that's for sure. So, but yeah, it could be all three of the, of guys from the institute. So thank you very much for your time. Stay tuned for the for the QR code and the date of the next class. Cecil Bullard: Thank you very much.

169 - "Ask Me Anything" with Cecil & Lucas: Culture, Accountability and Real Leadership November 12, 2025 - 01:12:13 Show Summary: What starts as a casual catch-up between Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard quickly turns into a no-filters AMA on the realities of running a modern repair shop. Together they examine why stepping back onto the counter resets an owner’s perspective, and how broken estimating routines quietly rob advisors of hours they can never get back. The conversation cuts into emotional discounting, “hero” pricing, and the financial chaos that follows when shops try to save everyone but themselves. Cecil and Lucas break down the power of documentation, signed warranty terms, and photo-backed repair validation when customers push back or chargebacks hit. Culture becomes the centerpiece as they discuss boundaries, accountability, and removing toxic influences before they shape the entire shop. The AMA winds down with straight talk about coaching, long-term planning, and why shops that prepare now will be the ones standing strong as the industry shifts.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast   Guest(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] - Lucas and Cecil open the AMA and talk about why owners should revisit the front counter. [00:02:00] - Cecil explains how broken estimating processes drain advisor time. [00:03:58] - Lucas describes how weak training turns procedures into the “telephone game.” [00:07:15] - They discuss why repair shortcuts almost always lead to comebacks. [00:08:45] - Cecil and Lucas highlight the dangers of emotional discounting. [00:13:10] - Lucas shares his “cash on the counter” exercise for pricing confidence. [00:26:01] - They address a stopped $9,000 check and stress the need for signed warranty terms. [00:33:20] - Cecil explains how photos and torque marks protect shops in disputes. [00:33:58] - A culture question leads to insights on accountability and standards. [00:57:43] - They wrap with advice on hiring a coach and preparing for industry shifts.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/iKNBfunSFgU   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Lucas Underwood: Hello folks. My name is Lucas Underwood with the Changing The Industry podcast, and I am a shop owner, l and n Performance out here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am so excited today to be joined by the one, the only Mr. Cecil Bullard. Cecil buddy. How you doing today? Cecil Bullard: Howdy Brother? I'm great as usual. Lucas Underwood: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm back in the shop working today. That's, and as you know, it's been a little bit I remember why I hired people now. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Like it's a reminder. Cecil Bullard: It's a good idea every once in a while to get back on the front counter, just to stay grounded a little bit. I think. For Lucas Underwood: sure. Lucas Underwood: I, you know, I see that a lot. I see a lot of a lot of owners who will go to a training class. They will go and be involved in something and they'll come back and they'll say, I want you to do this, and I want you to do this, and I want you to do this, and I want you to do this. And I'll ask 'em. I'll say, Hey, could you imagine doing that? Lucas Underwood: Like, seriously, could you imagine being on the front counter? And doing all of the steps that you just shared. And they'll say, well, I'm, I pay people for that. Okay, I understand, but I'm just saying like, let's say that tomorrow if you were, yeah. If you were on the front counter, tell me how that would work out for you. Lucas Underwood: And he's like, oh, that would be miserable. Like maybe you should think about this process before you implement it. Right. Cecil Bullard: Funny thing too, you know, if you look at service advisors, they, in my opinion, that's probably the toughest job in the shop being the service advisor. Absolutely. So much going on that you're trying to organize, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And they believe that they're really busy and they are really busy. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so now you have an owner that comes in, comes to a class of mine or whatever, and goes in and goes, okay, hey, I want you to do these three things. And you're like, if you're the service advisor you're saying to yourself. Cecil Bullard: Well, when and how would you like me to do those? Because right now I'm tied up. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And instead what we need to be doing is we need to be going, okay, how do we make you less tied up? Lucas Underwood: For Cecil Bullard: sure. So for instance, if you don't have a really good estimating process in your shop Lucas Underwood: Then Cecil Bullard: your service advisor is going out to the shop and talking to the techs, and every time they walk out to the shop and talk to the techs, that's 15 minutes, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes. Yep. And so if you do that, say eight or 10 times, you've just killed two, two and a half hours of the day, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep, a hundred Cecil Bullard: percent. And so instead of looking at your processes and going, oh, this one is not very efficient, this doesn't work Well, if we created a more efficient estimating process where the service advisor never had to really go out in the shop and look at the car or talk to the tech. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: That would save two hours of time. Now you could be doing some of the other stuff that you might need to be doing or want to be doing. I th you know, I think it's unfair to walk in and go, okay, here's five more things. Now we're yeah. Instead, you know, and we do this on A-A-C-E-O level. You know, what can I give away? Cecil Bullard: Right? What do I do that I shouldn't do? Or what do I do that someone else? Probably could do or should do. And you know, I'm, I want to delegate that out so that I have the time to do things that are on a different level. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Well, and you're so right and one of the things that I've noticed is that process builds garbage, right? Lucas Underwood: Like through the daily basis of doing what we do, especially you have an advisor and I'm gonna tell you something this is not automotive specific. This is any business. No. Yeah. And I made a video about this, I don't even know if I've released it yet, but I was talking about the family business and, you know, what's happened with that? Lucas Underwood: And it's this big mess, right? And so I was talking about it the other day to them and I said, Hey, like I see all these processes and I see all these policies, and I see all these procedures. Why is everything such a mess? Why is it like, why do we not do those things anymore? Because somebody put a lot of work into making this happen. Lucas Underwood: They said, well, what happened was is it was trained once and then it was given to the employees to train the next employees. Who then train the next employees, who then train the next employees and it became the telephone game. Cecil Bullard: But you have to, if you have policies and procedure, when you have policies and procedures, Lucas Underwood: yeah, Cecil Bullard: you need to have regular procedure review. Cecil Bullard: Meaning, yes, are we doing it? Are we still doing it? Are we doing it correctly? Is it efficient? A random change, something change. Yeah. Yeah. And so what, every employee, everybody's going, well, wait a minute, if we did it this way instead of that way, it would be simpler, it would be easier, it'd be easier for me, or whatever. Cecil Bullard: Instead of having a, like a formalized. How do we get this done? Yeah. Where we're sure that it really made a difference where we're sure that it was better and where we're Sure now that everyone's being taught the same way. Right. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And so what happened was is you ended up with this little bit of garbage. Lucas Underwood: Right. Imagine a desk and there's all these crumpled up papers all over it. And so, you know, it's like you go and you talk to 'em and they say, well we've always done it this way. Yeah. And you work through the process and you can find where it happened at. Cecil Bullard: Well you're Lucas Underwood: managing that Cecil Bullard: process. Yeah. We're creatures of habit. Cecil Bullard: And so whenever I bring something new into the shop or into the business, I need to create a habit, right? Yes. And then I can bring in one of the problems with bringing in like really strong employees. You know, you bring someone that's really got good willpower for a service advisor manager. That's what I want. Cecil Bullard: I want a really strong person. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But when I bring a strong person in, one of the problems with that is. Let's change this. Let's do it my way instead of the way that a shop has done it does it. And sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not good. You have to be there or someone does have to be there. Cecil Bullard: And paying attention to when it's not good. And also recording the new process, if that's the new process. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And then you had a, you did something. I was gonna make a joke when you were saying, I don't know if I've released it yet. I don't know how you could tell you probably release like 27 things a day. Cecil Bullard: So I don't know how you do anything else but then you have owners or managers, you know, high powered people that go, well, I'll I won't follow that process, right? Yes. Okay. This time, because I can make that decision, right. I, it's Lucas Underwood: mine. Cecil Bullard: I'm the guy. I Lucas Underwood: can do this if I want. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I can do it however the heck I want. Cecil Bullard: And unfortunately I think you and I were kind of talking before this, but you know, so when we did breaks in my shop Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: You know, we cleaned we cleaned the calipers up the slides, made sure they worked properly, clean the practice. We put new hardware, new pads and new rotors, period. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Okay. Unless it was like some giant. Dodge Diesel truck that had, you know, super, super inboard mount that you Cecil Bullard: Yeah. That you could, or that it was built that way, right? Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Other than that, new pads and rotors. Well, you know, the one time that the owner wants to save somebody some money and they go, okay, I'm not gonna put new rotors on this. Cecil Bullard: The rotors are. They're okay. They're close enough, blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna save my pal some money, my buddy. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: That's the time that it bites you in the ass. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: You know, and Lucas Underwood: Never fail, Cecil Bullard: man. And you get yourself in trouble. Right. Lucas Underwood: Well, and it happened just this morning. That's where the conversation came from is I've got a friend, Scott reached out to me and he said, Hey, Lucas I, man, I wanna go back and read a comment that you made about something. Lucas Underwood: And I said, okay, what's up? He said, you were talking to this lady and she was talking about how somebody had purchased a car. They bought this car, they brought it in, it overheated before they left. It, it was just like a mile down the road from the dealership. They take it back, they put a thermostat in it. Lucas Underwood: She makes it a mile down the road, it overheats again. She starts to question what they're telling her. So they bring it to the her shop. She begins to look at this car and finds out, Hey, it's got coolant in a cylinder. Thermostats aren't gonna fix this, and it's a really expensive repair, like $25,000 and I want to help her. Lucas Underwood: And it's like, listen, the best way you can help her is properly repair the automobile. Yes. And charge what you need to charge so you can stand behind it if something goes wrong, being the hero is not helping. And see, that was something that messed me up for years because I always wanted to be the hero, always wanted to lower the price. Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna be the hero with awesome customer service and with a properly repaired vehicle that I can stand behind. And the minute that I deviate, I break that. Cecil Bullard: I think we all want to be the hero and we all want to help people out. I think that's one of the things that's kind of indicative of our industry. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Hey, I wanna, I'm a nice, I'm a nice guy. I really want to help people out. And so, but you know, you can't help others if you can't help yourself. Lucas Underwood: Exactly Cecil Bullard: right. So, I got a shop I don't, it's three or four months ago, a relatively new shop to the institute. I think they made like three grand and they discounted almost $12,000 in that month. Cecil Bullard: And, but they made three grand. And three grand was probably two, two and a half percent net. Yeah. And so that's not a company where I could help somebody out. I can't I'm giving away so much on the front end Cecil Bullard: That I can't make a conscious decision to say, Hey, I want to do X, Y, Z at the shop. Cecil Bullard: The last shop I ran we had, I think the budget was 30 grand and we went down to the, one of the local churches and we said, Hey, to the pastor, we said, Hey, we have $30,000. It's our annual budget for helping. Community, you know, we know you have people in your community that need help. We want you to send them to us. Cecil Bullard: You can decide I'll use the whole dollars. I won't pay for labor or parts. Or you can say, Hey I'll pay for the parts, you'll pay for the labor whatever you want to do. But it's 30,000 and Yeah. But you can't do something like that if you don't have 30,000 to give away. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Cecil Bullard: And I think, you know, in, in small business, again, I don't think it's automotive specific, I think it's small business specific. Cecil Bullard: We, we, we don't understand what our real finances, what we really should be making. What is a fair profit? You and I were kind of talking about that before. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And therefore we do this in a. Like, I'm gonna help this one or that one because they got a great story or because I know that one. Cecil Bullard: And by the way, Lucas Underwood: it's not enough. And by the way, everybody has a story. Okay? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Every, everybody has hard times. Everybody has things that, that is not fair. And I'm gonna tell you something, if you wake up in the morning and expect life to be fair, Cecil Bullard: oh yeah. Well, if Lucas Underwood: You are asking for trouble, Cecil Bullard: you're gonna have a tough life. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. No, my, my dad, you know, my dad was one of those guys that life's a bitch and then you die. Right. You know, that was one of his sayings. Right. And Lucas Underwood: yeah. Cecil Bullard: And I think he certainly understood that life wasn't gonna be fair. I don't ever wake up any morning and think, oh, it's gonna be fair today. Cecil Bullard: Right. Right. It's gonna be what I make it. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm gonna, the other thing too, I think we all have to realize in our lives and in our businesses, they're gonna be good days and bad days. Right. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Be I believe because of the government shutdown that a lot of shops have had a kind of a weak month last month more so than normal. Cecil Bullard: We look at the numbers and yeah, we got more shops down. Now all of a sudden, it's picking up now that the wonderful people we have in Congress have decided to do their job. I think you sound Lucas Underwood: sarcastic. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Oh yeah. Trust me. I was gonna say something else, but you know, I don't, I, my daddy, my mommy said don't swear. Cecil Bullard: It makes you look dumb. So I only do it a little bit 'cause I'm only a little dumb. Lucas Underwood: Oh my goodness. Cecil Bullard: But now it's coming back. But I think you have to like look at that and you have to say, that's normal. I mean, yeah, there are gonna be times when our government can't get their crap in a pile and it's going to affect us. Cecil Bullard: There're gonna be times when things don't work perfectly. They're gonna be community situations, they're gonna be personal situations that are either gonna affect us personally or they're gonna affect our businesses. And if we're not profitable to a certain degree, I can't ride through that for sure. Cecil Bullard: So I've got a couple of different business I got a young couple that's kind of building their business. I think we're, when they started, we were doing like 57,000. We're probably up about one 10 now consistently monthly. And I keep saying to them, put money aside. Put money in the bank, have a savings account, and they do. Cecil Bullard: So now they put 15,000 in this account where they never had money before and something came up and it's a $4,000 cost. And you look at it and you go, oh, okay. Not too bad. I can do that. Right. And then you pull it out of the pile, you put it in, and then you build the pile back up. Right? Yes. Yep. Cecil Bullard: And, but I, you can't do that if you're not being profitable. Lucas Underwood: Profitable, yeah. Okay. And you know, I've got a friend, his name's John. And John is a new shop owner, right? Never ran a shop, never was a business owner, anything like that was a tech. And we were having discussions a while back and I said, you know, he would call me and he would say, Hey Lucas I've got a 30% margin on this part. Lucas Underwood: It's really expensive. I don't know if I feel okay charging this. And I said, okay, well let me give you a piece of advice. This was given to me years ago. What I want you to do is what you think is a fair price. I want you to go get that much cash outta your personal bank account or outta the business bank account. Lucas Underwood: And then I want you to walk back into the shop and when he comes in, I want you to walk around the front of the counter and I want you to count out a hundred dollars bills, how much you think it would take off that, and I want you to lay that down on the counter and I want you to pay it. And he said, but Lucas, I don't have that much money in my bank account. Lucas Underwood: I said, that's my point. Exactly. Right. Like, you, those don't have the money to do this. Cecil Bullard: And yet we, again, this is another kind of piece you and I had have kind of talked about is Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: so many owners are. Doing this on the fly, right? Yeah. They don't really even understand how financially prosperous the business needs to be in order to be a comfortable, safe business where you can help when you need to help or when you feel like I just absolutely have to help. Cecil Bullard: For sure. And I always say I hate emotional discounting. Yeah. And that's emotional discounting, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If you you know, I would tell you that you need to make 20% net profit, and if you don't have a business designed, a machine designed to make 20% net profit, then you do not have a business that is safe work, come comfortable, and you do not have a business that can help people when you need to help people. Lucas Underwood: Listen, I'm gonna tell you something. You know, I'm a huge Warren Buffett fan. Yeah. And you know, I became one of his fans years ago. I posted this in my LinkedIn, but I became a fan of here's years ago, and I was watching a YouTube or a Yahoo Money or Yahoo Finance video, and they asked, they said, Hey, Warren, what is the best advice you've ever given? Lucas Underwood: He said I wasn't given this advice. I was taught this advice from my dad, and he said, my dad just showed me what unconditional love was. And he said, if you can do that with a child, you're 90% of the way home. And then she said, what's the worst advice you've ever been given? He said, you know, he said, I've always kind of known what good advice was. Lucas Underwood: He said, I'm sure I gave plenty of terrible advice. But he said, I'm gonna tell you that Tom Murphy told me 40 years ago that Warren, you don't have to tell that guy to go to hell today. You can wait and tell him tomorrow. You ought to sleep on it and think, make sure you feel the same way. And he said, I've learned that instead of making decisions and emotion, I need to make decisions. Lucas Underwood: In fact, yeah. Now I'm gonna tell you his retirement letter, if you've not read his retirement letters, one of the most powerful things you'll ever read. Right? Because he talks about an obituary and he said, you better be writing your obituary right now because you don't want somebody else writing it based on what you didn't do. Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. And so that's something that I often think about and emotion plays into this. I had a probably two hour conversation with a shop owner day before yesterday, coming back from sema, you know, over the weekend, that kind of thing. And I happened to see it and I didn't respond to him until yesterday. Lucas Underwood: And he said, I've got this guy, he's been working for me since October, paying him 30 bucks an hour, flat rate, 30 hour guarantee. I'm doing all these things, trying to keep this guy happy, and all he does is complain and fuss and I don't get paid for this, and that's not my job. And this isn't that. I'm like, bro, right now's the time to send him down the road. Lucas Underwood: And he said, yeah, but this is a nice guy and I, you just don't understand, and I'm trying to help him. I'm like, there is no place for emotion in business. Right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: It's not okay to keep this person because they're toxic. They're gonna make the environment toxic. It's gonna destroy your business. But see, as business owners, we often bring emotion into the situation. Lucas Underwood: There is no place for emotion in business. It's by the fact. And if you look at, Cecil Bullard: would you Lucas Underwood: Go ahead. Cecil Bullard: Would you talk to my CEO about that a little bit? Lucas Underwood: Your CEO is a pretty tough guy. I don't, Cecil Bullard: yes, he is. We all are emotional beings and we all. Keep people too long and we, yeah. Allow people to do certain things and, you know, so I had a, I got tagged by one of, one of my guys, and I'm not currently coaching with him, but you know, I love the guys I've worked with over the years. Cecil Bullard: And he said Lucas Underwood: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: I got an employee. This is the second time that he's lied to me. What do I do? Lucas Underwood: Oh, Cecil Bullard: okay. And my answer is you can't have people working for you that you can't trust. Exactly. You get one. You know, you get one. Okay, you made a mistake. I'm going to overlook this. You can earn my trust back by doing this, and this over time. Cecil Bullard: But if you come back a second time, you lie to me a second time and it's very obvious that you lied to me and there's no out, then you can't work for me. And it doesn't matter if, you know, I love this excuse. Right? Well, yeah, but Cecil, good techs are hard to find. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And back ones are fairly easy to find. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. So you might as well just pick another one, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Pick another bad one and see if you can't change their habits. But Lucas Underwood: oh man. Cecil Bullard: But it's the excuses that we use to. To the, you know, to justify whatever where choice we're making. And it's often an emotional choice and not a logical, or a good business decision. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Okay. And I'm not saying fire everybody, and I'm not saying you, you shouldn't have grace and those kind of things, but you know, if you've got a guy that's worked for you for say 60 days and all he does is bitch and complain, Lucas Underwood: it's only gonna get worse. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You're, that's Lucas Underwood: only gonna get worse. Cecil Bullard: Get used to that because that's gonna be your life as long as that guy's with you Lucas Underwood: and you can set the standard. Yeah. And this is one of the things I see everybody do, is they don't set the standard fast enough. So the very first day you can ask my team, right? Like, you step outta line down here. Lucas Underwood: I'm not waiting to talk about it. I'm talking about it right now. And they, I used to think, oh, this is very aggressive to do that and I care about my people, so I don't want to know. Like you, you set the standard from the word go. And if you let that slide once, we're gonna see a decline. If you don't let it slide at all, we'll either hold that line or we can begin to improve and go in a better direction. Cecil Bullard: So, you know, one of the, one of the guys that spoke at our summit said something about you may have a standard here, but you allow this behavior. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: He said, congratulations, this is your standard. That's your new standard. This is not your standard. Lucas Underwood: You. Cecil Bullard: And so Lucas Underwood: you promote what you permit. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we do that almost constantly. Cecil Bullard: Well, that guy's a nice guy, so you know, okay, he's having a bad day, blah, blah, blah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna let this slide and then pretty soon, that's the habit. And then now that they've created the habit, everyone else is looking at that and going, well, wait a minute. I thought we had this standard here. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Obviously we don't. So if that person can act that way, then I can act that way. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And the other thing is, I'm not gonna spend my life and I, and believe me, I have made mistakes up the Ying yang. Just many mistakes. Business mistakes, personal mistakes, life mistakes et cetera. You know? But I'm not gonna live my life thinking, oh my God, I gotta go work with that guy and it's gonna be oh and oh. Cecil Bullard: And I know he is just gonna, you know, all he's gonna do is bitch. Today we have we have our core values, right? Our five core values and one of those, it has to be fun. And so when it's not fun, we take a look around and we go, why isn't it fun? And if that's a person, then how do we help that person modify the behavior or how do we replace that person? Cecil Bullard: That's all there is. There's no more. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: Right? Absolutely. And we want Lucas Underwood: time. 'cause your business will become who you allow in it. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I want timeframes around that. You know, are we gonna give this guy two weeks? Are we gonna give him two months? What's the and by the way, I'm gonna let that person know you've got two weeks, you know, pull it out. Cecil Bullard: Hundred Lucas Underwood: percent because Cecil Bullard: It has to be fun. I'm gonna, you know, I tell the story. I'm not supposed to be in the automotive industry. I never thought I would be in the automotive industry. My father didn't want me in the industry. And yet I've spent 45 years here. And you know, you wake up one morning and you look in the mirror and you go, wow, that guy's old. Cecil Bullard: Who is that dude? And it's 45 years have gone by and I'm not gonna spin, I don't know, the next 15, the next 25, whatever I have left. I'm not gonna spin that being miserable. I'm isn't worth it. Lucas Underwood: Right. I've told this story before and I'm gonna, Gary, I promise I'm gonna answer this question. I know the car's pulling into your driveway right now, so we're gonna go to it next, I promise. Lucas Underwood: But I am gonna tell this story. You know, here's the thing. Years ago I walked into this shop. I had a guy who was here and he tinted windows. He had a Volkswagen and there was a Volkswagen specialist in town. And I knew the Volkswagen specialist really well. He was elite. I mean, like you, you wouldn't find a technician this good on Volkswagens anywhere in the country. Lucas Underwood: I mean, this dude was just that good. And so he was known to be a little ornery. And so I, my friend took his Volkswagen over there. He didn't know, he worked over here, didn't know anything about that. And he went to pick up the car. After weeks, he hadn't heard anything. The guy called him and said, your car's ready. Lucas Underwood: And he's what? Like, you didn't call me with an estimate. You didn't anything you, this, that and the other. And he was really rude and really short and really abrasive. And so I said, well, I'll tell you what. I'll go over there with you and we'll pick up the car. And so we go in and he walked in first and I came in behind him and this guy's just giving him up the road and he walks in. Lucas Underwood: I said, Hey, what are you doing? And he said, oh, not much. What are you doing here? I said, oh, he is a, he works for me. And he said, oh, well let come on back here. Let me show you what was wrong with the car. Let me show you how you can avoid this next time. And by the way, you don't owe us nothing. Don't worry about it. Lucas Underwood: Come on back. And I was standing there and the lady at the front counter was there. And I said, what makes him like that? And she said, sweetheart, he spent his entire life of making every person who walks through that door problem, his problem. And he's bitter his ill. Yeah, Cecil Bullard: Can't do that. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. Lucas Underwood: And so that's what we do when we involve ourselves in these levels. We can't fix other human beings. And so if we run our business by the numbers and by the facts, it eliminates this emotional attachment that's unhealthy. Right. Cecil Bullard: So, so that I'm a bit of a counselor often between partners or between Yeah, Lucas Underwood: for Cecil Bullard: sure. Cecil Bullard: My husbands and wives even who work in the business together and I have this situation, had this situation where the husband was almost abusive, verbally, at least to the wife in the shop. And then the wife would, they had this pattern that she would just, you know, start screaming and crying and blah, blah, blah. Cecil Bullard: And you know, I talked to her and I said who can you control? What can you control? What you know? Yeah. And she said, well, only me, that's what it came to. And I said, okay. So if he was abusive to you or verbally abusive to you in the shop, in front of people, instead of screaming and crying, what behavior could you do that might change the situation? Cecil Bullard: And so what we came to was that she should say, that's not appropriate. That's not what you should be doing. You shouldn't treat me this way in front of all these employees. And then I'm gonna go take a break and then you and I can talk about it later tonight, tomorrow, whatever. But no screaming and crying. Cecil Bullard: And you know what happened? It shifted the whole tide. You cannot control other people. You can only control yourself. That's all there is. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Absolutely. So, absolutely. And E plus R equals O. See, a lot of people live life and they say E equals O No, the event doesn't equal the outcome. Your reaction is what creates the outcome. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so if you can learn to slow down and think about it before you react, don't let the emotion drive you into a reaction. Focus on the event and say, what are my options? What is my solution? What could I do? How could I make this better? But make good decisions after the fact because you can't control what happened Cecil Bullard: and also under Lucas Underwood: respond to it. Cecil Bullard: And also understand that not every choice will be a good choice, even though you make it right. Yeah. So it's not about whether or not I have some failures, of course, I'm gonna have some failures. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It's about am I moving forward in a, intelligent, logical, Lucas Underwood: yes. Cecil Bullard: Way that's gonna improve my life and improve the lives of others around me, right? Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. So, hey, listen, we're gonna jump in. We're going to answer this for Gary, okay? Yes, Cecil Bullard: sir. Lucas Underwood: Because here's what's happening. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Live right this very minute. This car go, Gary, that he's asking about, just pulled back into the driveway. Cecil Bullard: Let's Lucas Underwood: do it. He says, client from a big project came and picked up, paid with a check, no issues with the previous check from this client and send a message saying they're stopping payment on the check due to mechanical issues with the vehicle. Lucas Underwood: Unable to contact the client at this time to retrieve the vehicle for diagnosis on the issue. What's your opinion on best approach? Mind you, this is $9,000. Cecil Bullard: I gotta get the car back in the shop somehow, because number one if they're saying that I have mechanical issues, then they can decline the check. Cecil Bullard: That's I almost have no recourse. And if it's something I did. I have a warranty and so what I've done in the past is made sure I got in touch with a client and that might take more than just, oops, I sent them a text or I sent them an email. It might be multiple phone calls. It might be chasing 'em down where they work. Cecil Bullard: Yes, where you can be in front of them and I've gotta get the car back in my shop. Number one, Lucas Underwood: absolutely Cecil Bullard: to verify that whether or not what I did was done correctly. That's the first thing I'm gonna do. Yeah. Whenever we worked on a car and things didn't go the way they were supposed to, the first thing we do is we check the work we did to make sure that the work we did was legitimate and then it was done well, and then it, this is not our instance. Cecil Bullard: I document that very clearly and I don't release the car until they bring me cash. Cash this time. Yes. Lucas Underwood: No, no credit card, no check, Cecil Bullard: no checks, no nothing. Cash on the barrel head. Lucas Underwood: I have a very similar process, step number one, right? Because you're right, they can stop payment on a check. It does not have to be legitimate for them to stop payment on check. Lucas Underwood: They can do that if they want. Same with a chargeback that it doesn't have to be legitimate. Nope. Now, an amount that high. Because I have warranty terms and service and I tell people this all the time. Your warranty terms and service, dang well better be on your invoice. Yes. And they better have signed something. Cecil Bullard: Yes. ' Lucas Underwood: cause it says what my warranty is. And Cecil Bullard: by the way, it doesn't Lucas Underwood: say Cecil Bullard: if they don't sign, you don't have a contract, you have nowhere Lucas Underwood: to go. Exactly. Absolutely. And so own that warranty terms of service. When they sign their invoice it, it literally says, we don't do refunds. There is no refund policy. We correct the problem if it's related to something that we did, and here's how you obtain that warranty. Lucas Underwood: If that is not on there, you are up Cecil Bullard: the Lucas Underwood: creek in many cases. Cecil Bullard: It's a vacation warranty. You have to bring it back to us. We have to have the car. It's not take it somewhere else and then send me a bill. It's not Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: We don't pay for hotels or travel rental Lucas Underwood: cars or Now if you wanna do that. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: if you wanna do that's on you. Lucas Underwood: Right. You can do that after the fact, but it needs to be on paper that you don't do that. Cecil Bullard: The whole back page of our work order Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Was printed with our warranty policy stuff. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: I mean the whole page. And they had to make it Lucas Underwood: small to fit it Cecil Bullard: off 0.9 or 0.8 to get it there. Yeah. So. So, and it's like, you know, we did a transmission and we got a call from somebody and they were 500 miles away from the shop and the transmission's leaking and they're at a dealership. Cecil Bullard: And the dealership's like, well, we have to put a new transmission 'cause these guys are idiots, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we're gonna send you see, so we're just gonna send you the bill from the dealership. Oh no you're not. Right. Yep. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: You will take it to a shop of my choice. Cecil Bullard: I found a shop nearby there. Cecil Bullard: There was a seal leak it, I think it cost me like, I don't know, $24 to have it fixed. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The shop was being nice to me, but they didn't need a whole new transmission. Absolutely. And that, that the only way that happened was based on the warranty policy and the signature Lucas Underwood: Yes. Absolutely. And I'm gonna tell you something. Lucas Underwood: Listen when I go into these instances, I get a telephone call, Hey, there's an issue with something you did. Hey, I'm unhappy with my experience. You know what I'm doing? I am attacking it like you would not believe. I'm on the telephone, I'm calling them, I'm texting 'em, Hey, I wanna make this right. I wanna take care of this. Lucas Underwood: Tell me what's going on. How can I help? What do I need to do? And by the staff is by, Cecil Bullard: I'm also documenting all of that because I may have to go to court. Yes. And if it's nine grand, I'm gonna go to court. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And I might even talk to the district attorney because that's a felony for them to mislead and steal nine grand from me. Lucas Underwood: Well, in North Carolina, theft of services. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Right. In North Carolina it's theft of services. And that's why the terms of service is very important, right? Because I have to have a terms of service that says what? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But this also goes back to the conversation that you and I also had, and that is we have so many guys that are flying by the seat of their pants. Cecil Bullard: And you, they don't even understand the liability they have. Forget about the $9,000 job that the check got bounced on. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Think about somebody you doing work on somebody. They take their car outta your shop the next day they kill somebody. Cecil Bullard: You know? And who do you think is gonna be named in the lawsuit? Lucas Underwood: Absolutely Cecil Bullard: right? Yeah. Absolutely. No matter what, even if it's not your fault, even if it's not even remotely your fault, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with you because you touched the car, you're going to be named in the lawsuit. Yeah. And if you cannot prove what you did, how you did it, and why you did it. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And you don't have signatures. You are screwed. And Lucas Underwood: We have completion photos. Yeah, on our repair orders. And so the part was replaced. Here's a picture of the part. Oh, by the way, you see that red mark right there? That means that we torque the bolt, right? Yeah. That's torque mark. Lucas Underwood: And so we know that never gets put on until we torque that bolt. And so you can see the repair that was done. You can see the completed completion, you can see the photos of the parts that were changed. All of that is documented and available for you, for your review at any point in time. And people say, Lucas, that repair order is like 25 pages long. Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, right, because shop wear makes it super easy. It's not like it's a lot of work for us to do that. I don't care how long it is, as long as it's documented Cecil Bullard: and you better raise your labor rate by 50 cents an hour or so So you can pay for the paper. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Right? Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. So it is what it is. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we used to, like, we always had an after fix report. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So if the car came in with this symptom. And this is what we diagnosed. This is why we decided to replace that component. We replaced that component. We retested the vehicle, we verified that component is working properly at this time and that, and so that's always documented. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: In whatever repair you're doing or whatever service you're doing that, that was done legitimately. Especially if you're torquing. I love the idea of, you know, here's a red dot on that bolt. It means it was torque. Right. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Yes sir. Cecil Bullard: Imagine, you know, going to court and then you can stand in front of a judge or whatever and go. Cecil Bullard: Here's our process, here's how it's done, here's how I know it was done properly. Yes. You know? And by the way, it's Lucas Underwood: documented. It's on paper. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Here's how this works. Cecil Bullard: And we do that how often? Every single time. Lucas Underwood: Yep. About Cecil Bullard: just the way we do business, right? Yep. And nobody gets the choice not to do it. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Lucas Underwood: Now look I'm going to, we're gonna step on the accelerator here. I got yelled at by somebody last time. They said go. You didn't answer my question. Cecil Bullard: Go. Lucas Underwood: And I said, well, Michael Smith's a talker, man. You can't let him just talk on and on. I mean, he's smart. Cecil Cecil Bullard: two, you don't hear Lucas Underwood: what he says. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Cecil two. So let's, this is, I don't know about the smart part, but the talking part, we definitely, Lucas Underwood: I tell you that Michael Smith is a very smart man, right? Cecil Bullard: Yes. He Lucas Underwood: is. Like, he's pretty awe inspiring when you get to talking with Michael and the way he asks questions. That's how you know he is really smart, is because the way he asked the question, you're like, you're trying to get in my head, aren't you? Lucas Underwood: All right, Matt McCann. Now, I love this question. He says, we have a solid team of technicians and front staff. Oh, they moved it over so I can see it over here. We have a front staff who work well together, but it often feels like most of them work for the company rather than with the company. I truly believe a great culture and buy-in leads to a positive outcome in production. Lucas Underwood: What are some effective methods or approaches to help strengthen our shop's culture and shift that mindset toward a sense of shared ownership and teamwork? Now, I'm gonna tell you this, okay, Cecil, I've gotta jump in and answer this first because it's something that's near and dear to my heart. Lucas Underwood: Okay? Cecil Bullard: Go for it. Lucas Underwood: The first thing is there's this great video and it's by a man named Tim Kite. It's on YouTube and it's about leadership. And if you go search this, it's got some like yellow and purple dots or something on the title screen. You'll see it. And it is one of the most beautiful speeches on culture I've ever heard. Lucas Underwood: And he names a couple things. And one of the things that's always stood out to me is that you have to be going on a journey. You have to be going somewhere, right? Because people today want to be on a journey. They want to be accomplishing something. It's bigger than just showing up and getting a paycheck for them. Lucas Underwood: And so we have to show them what that journey is and why it should matter to them and why it matters to us. And you know, the other thing he talks about, you have to do it for the right reasons. It can't be a personal agenda. It can't just be about me getting a paycheck. It has to be about this business serves you too, right? Cecil Bullard: You have to, you also have to talk about it. You have to document it, and you have to live it. So, you know, when we start talking about your mission statement, your vision statement, and your core principles, you need those documented. And I always tell people, look, if you're gonna write a mission statement, put it on the wall and then not live it, don't write it. Cecil Bullard: But that, that in, in the, at the institute we worked together. Now I had a meeting the other night with a few of the top people here, and I was like, I need everyone to understand it's not a democracy. Right? Yeah. It is not everybody's not you're not gonna get what you want because there's three of you that want x. Cecil Bullard: It's what does Dutch Lucas Underwood: say as a benevolent dictatorship? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. It's, it is, it's a benevolent dictatorship. It, it is. Right. But, so there's that. On the other hand, people need to feel like their voice matters, right? Yeah. And that their Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And that their vision or their their, what they want lines up with what the company wants. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: So why do we have a mission statement? Well, 'cause Cecil's nuts and Cecil feels very passionate about what we need to do, but it's not Cecil's mission statement. It's a mission statement that was brought by all of the employees of the institute at a point in time. And it's been, it really hasn't been modified 'cause it's very simple. Cecil Bullard: Better business, better life, better industry. But we, when we advertise for people, when we say, Hey, I want a new employee, it's there when you interview, it's there. When you have meetings with your people, it's there. It's constantly there. It's not just on the wall, but we also discuss it. We talk about it, we talk about how it applies when we have decisions to make at the institute that are tough. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Decisions. We say, how does that fall in line with our core values? Yes. Right. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: We had one of those last week. Cecil Bullard: And we decided that the decision that we were making didn't fall in line with our core values, so we were going to make another decision. A different decision. Right. Yeah. And I think that other piece that you and I talked about, when the owner or the manager doesn't follow the process or doesn't, then it's all out the window. Lucas Underwood: You're taken outta that trust account, Cecil Bullard: right. You're Lucas Underwood: taken outta the trust account, you know, Cecil Bullard: and now you. Go ahead. Lucas Underwood: You go ahead. Cecil Bullard: No you go ahead. Lucas Underwood: You'd already forgot what you were gonna say. Cecil Bullard: Go ahead. No, I haven't. I'm good. Lucas Underwood: So, Tim Kit said the real challenge of like, because core values the way that we see it, right? Lucas Underwood: Because core actually is a Latin word for heart. Yeah. And he talked about the fact that, you know, because you go to the coronary department of the hospital and he said the challenge is getting it off of the wall because those are poster values into the heart of your people. And so it means that we have to hire people who believe what we believe. Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Right. Now, I'm gonna tell you something. One of the, one of the coolest practices or I don't know what you'd call it that we've done in our shop, Jeremy Hoem is the business coach for the family business up the street, right? And he suggested something and I found it brilliant. He said, I want you guys to sit down and I want you to name three people. Lucas Underwood: Each person in the room named three people that made a big impact in your life. Named. Cecil Bullard: That's, you guys do that on the podcast? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. We name all those three people. And then he says, okay, now what I want you to do is I want you to name three things about those three people that was impactful for you. The reason that stuck with you and why you, why it emulate matter. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so we go down and we make this list. And you know, when we got done, we found out that the things that mattered to every single person in the room mattered consistently across the board. Honesty, integrity, doing what's right, regardless of who's looking right. It wasn't about money. Cecil Bullard: We can't, yeah, you can't run a business and make. Cecil Bullard: You know, poor decisions because that's gonna put more money in your company. Now again, you and I have conversations all the time and 'cause I love talking to you, and I don't know if you care about, I don't know if you love talking to me or not, but I do. I do, of Lucas Underwood: course. Cecil Bullard: So of course. So, you know, we have the shop owner who's not making a living who feels bad if they make a profit, et cetera, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: That's not what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that, you know, the business has to be profitable and it has to be profitable to a certain extent because that then allows me to take care of my employees and their families and my customers and my community and all the other things. But when you have a financial decision to make and you decide to go against your core values because it's a financial decision, 'cause it's gonna impact you, right? Cecil Bullard: You are making a mistake. Okay. You need to build that bank account that allows you to make the right choice even when it hurts, right? Yes. And in order to do that, you have to charge properly on the front and be profitable on the front so that you have that opportunity. I would tell you, you know, that there was that post about, there's these dishonest guys and there's always dishonest people. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. No matter what industry you're in, right? Yeah. There's gonna be a certain percentage of those no matter what you do. But I think that most of the stuff that looks dishonest, it might actually be dishonest in our industry, but it's really because I put myself in a position where I could not make the right decision because I didn't have the money or the finances to make the right decision. Cecil Bullard: So instead of, you know, pulling that motor out and putting a new motor in at my cost because we screwed it up, I'm gonna put it. Cheap patch on this thing and hope it gets past the warranty period. Right, Lucas Underwood: right. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. 'cause I don't have the money to do anything else, and it's not the decision that I really, if it was my car, it's not the decision I would make. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so I always look at it like that. I'm gonna be the one driving that vehicle. Yeah. And so if I'm gonna be the one driving that vehicle, how am I gonna fix that thing? Yeah. And if you charge enough, and I can't say that we always do either. You know, there's sometimes you come up against a financial decision and maybe there isn't all that money sitting in the bank, but if you make the wrong choice and you've got the writing on the wall and the mission statement and the vision and the values, and you Lucas Underwood: value against that, but Cecil Bullard: yeah. Cecil Bullard: What message? You just wiped it all Lucas Underwood: out. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I think as business owners, as people who want to be leaders, who try to be leaders, that we need to be very conscious in the decisions we're making. We need to be very solid in the in, in our core values so that we keep making the right decisions. 'cause when we make the wrong ones, we can get a little grace from our people. Cecil Bullard: But if that becomes a pattern Lucas Underwood: yeah, Cecil Bullard: Then there's no grace. Lucas Underwood: They will not trust. Do you know how many technicians I talk to, how many service advisors I talk to and they say I don't trust them. I've seen what do to other people. I'm not gonna. Cecil Bullard: But I, and I also think that we're not building the emotional bond with our employees that we need to build. Cecil Bullard: And the emotional bond is not, you can walk on me and you can do whatever the hell you want. I'm gonna pay you whatever you want and all that. There, there are rules and B, my can't boundaries. Yeah. You gotta have boundaries. Boundaries. Okay. There, there are rules and boundaries but we need to have an emotional connection with our people. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: A around the core values of the business and that journey that you're talking about. You know, what's the journey that we're on together so that when we fumble, right, when we fall down, we have a lot of people there to pick us up and help us move forward. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And not point fingers and laugh at us while we're on the ground. Cecil Bullard: Right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And if we don't build that core, if we don't build that emotional bond. Yeah. Then we don't get Absolutely. We don't get what we need. Absolutely. What we should have. Lucas Underwood: And you know, one of the things I'll say about this to Matt is that, that, for one, you need to be really careful here because usually if the culture, right, like, so I have a big personality and the people in the shop know my heart. Lucas Underwood: They know what I believe, and I try my very best to live that. There's days that I don't hit that mark. Yeah. And they pick me up and they get me there and there's days that they don't hit the mark and I pick them up and get them there. There's days I don't feel like it, and they're like, Hey dude, it's okay, right? Lucas Underwood: Like, we got this, we're fine. We're gonna get through this. Right. Cecil Bullard: I, Lucas Underwood: well, so here's the thing. It's like you need to be careful because if you don't have a culture that's developing underneath you, there might be a seed somewhere in that culture that something's wrong. There might be someone in the culture Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Who is trying to distract and pull back from it. Now, you said something about boundaries. I wanna just tell you how smart my wife is. Okay. The other day she can't be Cecil Bullard: very smart. She's still hanging out Lucas Underwood: with you. So, Cecil Bullard: I don't know, brother. Go ahead. Sorry. Lucas Underwood: She tolerates. Okay. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. There we go. Lucas Underwood: I'm always gone. Lucas Underwood: You notice that like, yeah. I'm always on the road. That's how she tolerates me. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: She said, listen, I'm gonna tell you something about yourself that may not feel very nice. She said, you're a giver. And I said, okay. She said, givers have to set boundaries because takers never will. And I thought, oh. Lucas Underwood: Huh. Right. Because I'm bad. You've seen me do that. Yeah. You've yelled at me for doing that. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: And it's like, listen you have to set boundaries with these people. And one of the things I see shop owners doing, I just had a conversation with that guy who's having all these issues with this tech in the shop, only been there for a short period of time, super toxic killing the organization. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. If you don't set a boundary that says you will not behave this way, we do not tolerate this here. Right. Because see what I've learned, Cecil, is that I have to have a line. And that line is once you cross that, no, I no more Mr. Nice Lucas. Okay. I have a job to do. I'm not letting you damage the rest of the team. Lucas Underwood: It's not that I don't care about you, it's not that I wanna harm you. It's that you're going to cause harm to the people that I care about. Cecil Bullard: And that's the kind of the point I kind of wanted to make is that while I'm trying to be the nice guy, and I'm trying to be a giver and I'm trying to make sure everybody's taken care of. Cecil Bullard: I can't have someone that, that routinely is not part of the team, is not part of the mission. It's not part of the vision. I can't do it. Exactly. You know, I was, I thinking, you know. What's your favorite whiskey or bourbon? Lucas Underwood: What Cecil Bullard: do you like best? Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna say horse soldiers probably my favorite right now. Cecil Bullard: Okay. So I've got a really nice young, maybe I've got a really nice glass bottle. I'm gonna pour you you know, two fingers of horse s soldiers and but I'm only gonna put a little poison in it. Lucas Underwood: Yeah, just a little. Cecil Bullard: Okay. I'm just gonna put a little poison. Probably won't kill you. Cecil Bullard: Might make you sick a little bit, but it probably won't kill you. Are you gonna drink that or not? Lucas Underwood: No. Cecil Bullard: No. Lucas Underwood: Even a little bit. Cecil Bullard: No, I thank Lucas Underwood: you. I like David. I'm not trying to have the stomach plug in the middle of a podcast, Cecil Bullard: but kind of how do we do that in our lives? We keep poisonous people around, we keep poisonous ideas, we keep poisonous behaviors around us. Cecil Bullard: But I'm Lucas Underwood: gonna fix on Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Win because you know, I was invincible until I was, I dunno, 57. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And you know, prior to 50, about 57, sometime in my 57th year, I looked out there and I thought, oh my God, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, there's a, there's an end to this life, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And it's closer now. Than it was, you know, now I can see that I got 25, 30 years left maybe. Right? Maybe. Right. And then quality of life and all of that. And when you're invisible, it's like, okay, so I'll drink that. It's got some poison in it, so what? Right. You know? Yeah. I'll take care of that tomorrow. Cecil Bullard: I'll i'll do that next week. I'll, oh, you know, having to deal with that guy, you know, and then it's gonna be tough on the business because now I don't have that guy. Yeah. Well, I got news for you. Running shops and running, you know, the institute, when you get rid of toxic people, it's amazing how much the other people step up. Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: EE. Every single time I've gotten rid of someone toxic, the company has made leaps and bounds move moving forward. Percent. Right? Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. And look, here's the thing is there's a video of Jordan Peterson. It's actually the video that got him canceled. And you'd watch it and you'd say, how in the world did that, did they cancel Cecil Bullard: him? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Right over this, right? It's in, it's insane. But he talks about fixing things and he said we teach all these kids in school that they're gonna be able to go out and do something. 'cause he taught psychologists, right? Yeah. He's like, you know, we teach 'em, they're gonna be able to fix something. Lucas Underwood: And he said, no, the world's a really complex place and it's really hard to fix things. And you're the equivalent of a chimp with a wrench, right? Yeah. You're whack. Did it make it better? No. You, to fix a human being is a lot of work. And it takes years. And it's not something that as a business owner, you're really supposed to be doing in the first place. Lucas Underwood: You're getting off into some gray area here. And so we have a toxic person in the shop because what, what happens? How many season, how many times have you seen it? They've got this toxic person in the shop. Yeah, but he's banging out hours. The minute he's gone, you're gonna find out that he was covering up all of his mistakes. Lucas Underwood: And when that car came back the next time with loose bolts, he tightened them up and said, what do you think to do? Cecil Bullard: Yeah, I didn't, it wasn't my fault. I didn't do that Lucas Underwood: exactly. Cecil Bullard: I'd rather have the guy go, oops, I made it. Yeah, I did it. Right. You know, Lucas Underwood: a hundred Cecil Bullard: percent. When I'm interviewing potential people, I'm asking open-ended questions that will direct me to whether or not they will take accountability or not. Cecil Bullard: Take accountability for sure. One of the questions I might ask someone is, tell me about the worst mistake that happened. We all have a, like if I said that, I know you have a picture, you'd go, oh man, we did this. Blah, blah. And tell me what it was about and tell me what we did to take care of that. Cecil Bullard: You know? Yeah. And a lot of people will instantly go, well, so and so did this, and so, and it was, it's never them. They never have a part of it. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Another piece of that is we're all broken, right? We're not, none of us are perfect human beings. We don't, I mean, we're, I guess we're perfect human beings. Cecil Bullard: We're just not perfect. Right? Yeah. Human beings are flawed. Yes. And it's not my job to fix you. It's my job to set goals, set boundaries. To run my business the way that I need my business to run so that my clients can be taken care of and my employees can be taken care of. 'cause you know, that's my Lucas Underwood: job. Cecil Bullard: That's my job, Lucas Underwood: what I do, right? Cecil Bullard: That's what I Lucas Underwood: do. Cecil Bullard: And when somebody comes in that's going to interrupt that or make that, you know, more difficult, the more I tolerate that, the harder it becomes because other people are also paying attention, watching, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: And I'm hurting other people, right? Lucas Underwood: Like, that's the thing we don't really want to talk about. I'm actually hurting other people. I'm impacting the lives of other people. I'm help I, we talk about negative attitude, right? And I tell people all the time, like, I wanna be careful about who my kids hang out with. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, Lucas Underwood: absolutely. 'cause the negative attitude is contagious. Lucas Underwood: Don't Cecil Bullard: one. Lucas Underwood: You know, Cecil Bullard: if I had only one thing I could do for my children when they were growing up Yeah. My grandkids now, it would be choose their friends. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay. Absolutely. Who they hung out with. Absolutely. Because you become like the people around you. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And you know, when they talk about, you know, you don't wanna be the smartest guy in the room, you wanna be in a room where there's a lot more smarter people than you. Cecil Bullard: That, that is kind of the example of, if I'm in a room with a lot of smart people, I might not be really smart, but I'm gonna get smarter. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If I'm in a room with a lot of yahoos and idiots, guess what? I'm gonna be a Yahoo and an idiot. It's inevitable. Yeah, so I, one more thing about the culture piece. Cecil Bullard: Not only do you need to communicate routinely, but some of the things that are important to them when they fall in line with what's important to the company, you need to make a part of what your company is about in doing, and you need to make a big deal about that. So it's not just, well, the company's here to make 20% and take and have a great reputation, blah, blah, blah. Cecil Bullard: It's also like, what do you want and how does that fit into that company goal and values? Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And how can we help you achieve that Lucas Underwood: a hundred Cecil Bullard: percent by working here and doing your job here. Right? Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: And if you're not having routine communication, and that's not, it is like, okay, I'm outta your toolbox, you know? Cecil Bullard: Good morning, how's your family doing? How's your son, Bob? I know you had some problems with him. Is that okay? What can I do? You also have to be talking to the employee on a, this is your job. These are the boundaries. These are the things that you're doing fantastically. These are the things that we need you to improve. Cecil Bullard: Here's how, if you need help, here's how I'm gonna help you as leaders in our companies. We should constantly be helping others in our companies become better and better. And we do that and they see us as that. They don't see the company as outside of themselves a different goal, different direction. Cecil Bullard: Then I have people that work. With the company. Become a part of the company. Yeah. As opposed to, oh, I'm just here for a paycheck. I don't want people that are just here for a paycheck. Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. I, one of the, one of my very close friends worked for a big national organization and he was so depressed and just really upset about the position. Lucas Underwood: I'm like, dude, you're like their top sales person and all this crazy stuff's happening and you're doing all these amazing things and look at all the progress you've made. He's like, something just doesn't feel right. And he switched positions and he said, I figured it out. It was feedback. It wasn't good or bad feedback, it was just feedback. Lucas Underwood: No feedback. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. ' Lucas Underwood: cause I was getting nothing. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Lucas Underwood: Right. And so if we're not talking to our people and they don't know the content of our heart, but Cecil Bullard: so Lucas Underwood: missing an opportunity. So Cecil Bullard: how many small businesses shop owners have a goal for the company that they know that everyone knows what that goal is? A sales goal. Cecil Bullard: A customer satisfaction goal, a comeback goal, you know, et cetera, et cetera, that everybody knows and understands that you're routinely talking about. How many of those shop owners now have a position that's well-defined? Here's what you're responsible for. Here's who you answer to. Here's who answers to you. Cecil Bullard: Here's how we have our decision making paradigm. You know, it's how we make decisions in this company. And how many of those owners now have goals with the position and good position. Yeah. You know, agreement, contract description, whatever. And then how many of those people are having routine interviews? Cecil Bullard: I mean, like, at least twice a year. On your position and on your personal checks, personal goals, et cetera. And I mean, I see employees. I've been working in this company for seven years. I've never once had a Here's how you're doing an interview. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I mean, I've had the owner come out, yell at me because I, I did something that they didn't like, but I never had a sit down and say, this is my job and I'm doing a great job here, but I need improvement here. Lucas Underwood: Well, I'm gonna get us through these last two questions. Go for it. I think you're absolutely right. And I'm just a little disappointed. Nobody's asked why you're in a 1970s bathtub for this recording. I don't even color Lucas Underwood: in the background. Cecil Bullard: Don't even, I don't know why the green is there. I don't know what happened. Cecil Bullard: So we're gonna, Lucas Underwood: we'll, Cecil Bullard: Michael, Lucas Underwood: later we're Cecil Bullard: gonna get some other acc later. Lucas Underwood: There you go. Right. Go Cecil Bullard: something. Lucas Underwood: Okay, so, so one I'm gonna answer really quick. I'm just gonna go through, I think we're fairly close on this. Kyle says, Hey this is a weak point for me. Should we be telling the tech and advisors actual revenue numbers and goals? Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you Cecil Bullard: something. Yes. Yes. Lucas Underwood: I share every single dime of numbers. Yes. The only thing I don't do is share like individual payroll data. No, we don't do that. I share everything. I share the payroll. Cecil Bullard: I'm not telling you what everybody else gets paid, by the way. Probably everybody knows anyway 'cause the employees are gonna talk et cetera. Cecil Bullard: But why do I share the numbers? Because we have a goal and we have a target and we're not hitting that. I want you aware of that. Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: If we are hitting that, I want you aware of that. And if you don't think I'm here to, you know, make a profit and drive a nice truck, then we didn't interview you properly. Cecil Bullard: Right. Here's the thing Lucas Underwood: I'm training my staff every single day about how to look at those numbers. What those numbers mean. Yes. What number affects what, how it changes things, how it affects the bottom line. Because you know something, one day I won't be here anymore and if I can raise them up because what do we have happening? Lucas Underwood: I told you this in the meeting we had a while back, we see all these people that are leaving shops and starting their own and nobody's ever taught 'em how to run a business. And so if we can advise them, if we can educate them and people say, well, what if they go start their own thing? So what? Yay. At least your competition knows what they're doing. Cecil Bullard: At least they're charging a reasonable rate instead of 75 bucks an hour because they think I can be cheaper and blah blah, blah. The other thing, if you're not telling them what's happening, they are guessing what's happening. Exactly. And you don't want 'em guessing. You made a Lucas Underwood: lot of money Cecil Bullard: And when you come in, when you hang on, 'cause you gotta cover this. Cecil Bullard: When you come into a shop and you have like the technicians going, well, the reason we're not busy is 'cause we're too pricey. You're not having the right conversations with those people. They don't understand why we have to be $156 an hour, a hundred, $200 an hour. And all of your employees need to know what your rate should be and why you need to hold that rate. Cecil Bullard: Steady because if you don't, then you make 3% and you have a business that's unsafe and you can't make good decisions financially for sure. And so I'm the guy that says, you need to know where we're at. You need to know what the profits are, and you need to understand that the company is set up to make 20% net profit because I don't get to keep it all. Cecil Bullard: If I'm lucky, I might end up with seven or 8%. Lucas Underwood: Amen. I've got one question we're gonna answer. There's actually another one in there that I think's important. One is how to know when to hire a coach. And I'm just gonna say, like, for me it was very simply that I knew that my knowledge had gotten me as far as it was gonna get me. Lucas Underwood: I was up against the wall. Every time I turned around, I was dealing with another problem I didn't know the answer to, and I felt super stressed out. I felt like no matter what, I just could not make progress. And that's when it's time to get that outside perspective. I'm gonna tell you that I think if you're starting a business, you should hire a coach when you start the business. Lucas Underwood: And I understand the revenue concerns with that, Cecil, but I think having somebody help you set the business up properly, ensure success down the road. If nothing else, just somebody to help you set up a proper chart of accounts. Oh my God, I hate to even bring that up. Cecil Bullard: So I'm a coach and yeah, and I've been a coach. You're retired. Let me, no, I'm not. No, I'm not brother. I'm not. I will kick you in the head next time I see you. And you don't want that. 'cause I have this giant boot on my foot right now. Lucas Underwood: That Cecil Bullard: we have clients that, that. Come to us and say, I'm buying a business. Cecil Bullard: And we usually save them a hundred, $150,000 on the purchase price because they don't really understand the numbers and blah, blah, blah. We help 'em negotiate, we help 'em set up the systems and process. We help 'em get the goals in place. We help them understand the business as a financial machine, a model, you know, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And so our average client I think last month we were over 19% net for our average client. And that includes brand new people who are only at three or 4%. So our clients have been with us for a while, are making really good money, and they're not working 60 hours a week or 80 hours a week. These are guys that are now working 20 hours a week, 25 hours a week in their automotive shop, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And Lucas Underwood: absolutely. Cecil Bullard: And so, you know, it. Can I do it by myself? Yeah, probably. It might take me 20 years to figure it all out, or I may never figure it all out. Team Lucas Underwood: trying to get Cecil Bullard: it here. And so guys like yourself, you know, if I asked you, I said, Lucas, you know, when did you first hire a coach? Cecil Bullard: And you say, okay, I did it when, I don't know, I was in business 12 years, right? And Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: I finally thought, okay, I'm in trouble enough that I better hire somebody otherwise I'm not gonna be here. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And that's a huge portion of guys that hire coaching. I've got to a point where I'm almost desperate. Cecil Bullard: And my coach, the coach is the last straw. I gotta either, you know, I'm gonna go broke or I'm, they're gonna help me, right? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: But I will ask you, so I don't know if it was 12 years, 15 years, seven years when you got the coach and you started, you know, helping yourself and you don't run a perfect business. Cecil Bullard: Neither do any of my clients. Okay? Lucas Underwood: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Sure. But do you say to yourself, man, I wish I'd had done this. Sooner. Lucas Underwood: Yes. Cecil Bullard: Okay. Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Cecil Bullard: So I have people, Lucas Underwood: Do you know I, I mean like I know where, do Cecil Bullard: you know how much farther along I would be if I had hired Lucas Underwood: a coach myself? I would've money, I would have like college accounts for my kids and I would have a HSA and I'd have a lot of money put back in it. Lucas Underwood: I'd be 10 years ahead towards retirement right now. Cecil Bullard: My business instead I'm playing would be worth, my business would be worth twice what it's worth or three times what it's worth right now. Even though I did hire a coach and I'm working towards all those things, I could have done it better sooner, faster. Cecil Bullard: It's Lucas Underwood: kinda like compounding. The earlier you get in and get it started, the easier it is to get there. Cecil Bullard: And so I get into a lot of meetings. In fact, I have one with a potential new client today. I'm, when we have someone who's kind of outside of what the institute normally does, like they don't just have a normal, like I work on Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Repair shops or whatever. I get involved and I have these conversations and what I really detest is this you go through and you say, okay, we do this for you. And they believe it. They see it. They go, okay, and you talk about, you know, your parts margin is off by 18 points and that's costing you $70,000 a year and you know, we may not get the 18 points, but we'll probably get at least 12 and that will certainly pay for us and put more money in your pocket, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And. And then you get done and you're like, okay. And they're like, oh yeah I really, I think this would be great. And you say, okay, sign on the bottom line. Cecil Bullard: And we don't have long-term contracts. We're not even, we're not like signing for a $60,000 contract. We're just saying, yeah, you're gonna pay us month to month, and if you don't like what we do, bye-bye. You know? And if you do like what we do, you're gonna keep paying us. And our clients keep paying us because they like what we do. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But then they go, well, you know, I'm I'm gonna hire a service advisor. So once I do that, I'll then I'll come back. There's always a reason. Do coaching or I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, yeah. And you know what I tell 'em, I said, no, you're not. You will never come back. And I'm sorry, but if you think you can do this on your own, can you Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And you know what? You'll probably make half or less of what you should earn. Yeah. And your life will be, but the cost of doing it Lucas Underwood: that way, do Cecil Bullard: you know how much it's pain that Lucas Underwood: causes, do you know what it Cecil Bullard: does? It's painful not to for you, your family. Yeah. You know, and that's what they don't Yeah. Cecil Bullard: That's what they don't understand. Right. It's like, you know, my, my dad all he worried about was the clients and he did care about his kids. Don't get me wrong. He loved us and he provided food and all that kinda stuff, but when it came decisions about where he spent his time and all of that, it was always with the business. Cecil Bullard: It was never with the family and on, there was always Lucas Underwood: another fire to put out Cecil Bullard: on his death bed. After two months in, in the hospital on a breathing tube, knowing he was gonna die, all he could say to me was, I'm sorry. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay. And it wasn't, I'm sorry that I, you know, didn't leave you $10 million or, you know, any of that. Cecil Bullard: It was, I'm sorry that I didn't give you the time. That you should, that we should have. I'm sorry that we didn't have the relationship we should have. So they don't understand that. And if you talk to, I don't know, I could give you a hundred clients to talk to, and they would say, oh my God, my life is so completely different. Cecil Bullard: I, I now have time for my family. I have a life outside of my business. I have money in the bank. I'm not concerned about, I, I can do investing in other areas. You know, Michael, Mr. Smith you know, brainchild there you know, he talks about like having that extra bid and peace. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Well, Maslow basically says if you're worried about money and whether or not you can pay payroll next week, you can't think about family. God you know, life. Lucas Underwood: You can't have a good life. You can't enjoy life. And you know, here's on the other side of that, right? There's a lot of shops out here who are listening and they're saying, but man, you know, I've got things pretty good right now. Lucas Underwood: I've got things pretty dialed in. I've got things lined up. And you know, the reason that I coach with the institute is this, because when I sat down and started talking with Michael Smith and because I'm not gonna lie to you, Michael and I butted heads when we first met. And I went to Michael and I said, I really like Cecil. Lucas Underwood: I feel like he's a close friend of mine, and I'm worried that what you're doing with the institute and your engagement could be bad for them. And he said, why do you say that? And I said, because you're trying to tell all these people to go sell their shops. And he said, whoa, stop down. Cecil Bullard: That's not what we're doing. Lucas Underwood: That's not what that's Cecil Bullard: about. Lucas Underwood: Down we, we were at a conference and he pulled out a chair and he said, I want you to sit down and you need to listen to me. And I said, Cecil Bullard: It's about creating a legacy and having the legacy and controlling some of that. Lucas Underwood: Go ahead. But beyond that, Cecil Bullard: yeah, Lucas Underwood: but beyond that, what he did is he put his hands up on my shoulder and he said, I need you to listen to me because I have seen all of these businesses and other verticals go through what's getting ready to happen to you. Lucas Underwood: He said, if you don't believe me when I say this, go look at the collision space and see what's happened to them. Because you work in the collision space too. I said, what are you talking about? He said, I'm talking about consolidation, Cecil Bullard: mom and pop hardware stores, mom and pops, pharmacies, et cetera. Lucas Underwood: Funeral homes, right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. He said, what I'm trying to tell you is that the environment of which you operate now is not gonna be the environment of which you operate 10 years from now. And if you wanna sell your shop, great. If you wanna build a bunch of shops and sell them as a package and take the money and run, great. But what I'm trying to tell you is that you're not gonna survive and thrive in this market, in this environment unless you change what you're doing, because you're gonna be in a different market 10 years from now. Lucas Underwood: You have to Yeah. The industry Lucas Underwood: prepare for it now. Cecil Bullard: So I don't know you're not a young guy. You're young compared to me but you've been in here for, I don't know, 20 years, right? Yep. In the industry. And you've seen the changes that we have, not just technologically, but even Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Kind of business. And we have fought that tooth and nail, like Yeah. Raising our labor rates and, you know, charging what we're really worth and actually even paying technicians and creating a path. And we fought a lot of this stuff. Right. If they're good, they'll figure it out. Right? Okay. Yeah. That's what we should do is roll the dice and hope that we have good people. Cecil Bullard: Why not help them become the best that they can be? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And. The changes we had in the last 20 years will pair pale in comparison Yes. To the changes we will have in the next 10. Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: Okay. Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. Cecil Bullard: I mean, we've got AI to think about how is that going to influence what, who is that gonna replace? Cecil Bullard: How is that gonna be used in our business or buy the do it yourselfer out there. Right? Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And by the dealerships and the manufacturers and, you know, there's so much going on here and what I hate we probably have, I don't know, at any given time we have I dunno, 50% of our clients are probably. Cecil Bullard: 50 or older. And we have a good percentage of guys that are 70 and still working in their shops because they need to, because they have to, because they don't know how to do anything else. And they have no life outside of that. And they've come to the point where they're physically or mentally not capable of moving forward and they have no path. Cecil Bullard: They haven't spent the last five years with one of their key employees helping their key employee understand the business so that key employee can pay them and get them out. Or they're you know, they go to sell their business and they need, I don't know, 800,000, but it's only worth two. Cecil Bullard: And they don't even understand. I, we have an employee, a, an older gentleman, fantastic guy. He's been with us for a very long time and he's gonna sell this business for like, I dunno, 500,000. And we look at the business with him, we go, this business worth a 900, $950,000. And he cried. I mean, he cried because at 500,000, it wasn't quite gonna be enough to make him feel secure. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But at 950,000, it's enough to make him feel secure. Lucas Underwood: He's gonna make it through it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And it's it breaks my heart Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: To see these guys at the end of their career. With no plan, no move forward plan for themselves. And I don't know how many shops closed this year. I can tell you we're not 240,000 shops anymore. Cecil Bullard: And the only reason that we're maintaining numbers is 'cause you have all these technicians, all of a sudden we think, oh, I'm just gonna go do it. And now they're working out of their garage and they're calling themselves a shop and charging, you know, $75 an hour not marking parts up and letting their customer bring their own parts in. Cecil Bullard: And we're gonna see that disappear. Yeah. We're gonna see it disappear because of regulations, because of technology. It's gonna be less and less Lucas Underwood: different world. Yep. Cecil Bullard: A hundred percent. Lucas Underwood: And Cecil Bullard: I'm telling you, in the next 10 years, there are gonna be so many guys that are going to have to be out of the industry. Cecil Bullard: And it's a shame because they could control their destiny. So when do you hire a coach? I don't know if you're looking at going, yeah, why not? Right. Yeah. What's the first thing I'm gonna do? You're gonna hire me and the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna look at your parts margin. I'm gonna look at your labor rate. Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna say you're, we're costing you x. You have to make that from your customer. Lucas Underwood: I'm Cecil Bullard: your new Lucas Underwood: accountability Cecil Bullard: partner. 10 bucks an hour, right? I'm your new And I have a big foot. That's but, and by the way, if it doesn't fit, don't stick. Yeah. Don't sign long-term contracts. Yeah. Percent. If it doesn't fit, don't stick. Cecil Bullard: And if it doesn't fit, like we, we have, I don't how many coaches we have now. Nine or I don't 11 or whatever it is. Yeah. And I'm also the guy that gets the call, Hey, I'm working with this client, I'm kind of struggling. Not, and it doesn't it's not working well. So ciso, will you get involved? Yeah, absolutely. Cecil Bullard: I'll meet with a client and I've taken on some of those clients, or I've moved them to other coaches where it fit better. Right? Sure. Where it felt better, where it worked better for them. So. You also want to probably hire a coach that, or a coaching company that has the philosophy that you fit with if you Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Are the discount, the Lucas Underwood: belief and moral, ethical guidelines. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If you're the discount, get 'em in, get 'em out. Get as much as you can, and that's what you wanna be. It isn't gonna fit here at the institute. We're not, you will not be happy with us and we will not be happy with you. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: If you want great relationships in a shop that runs really well and people to build a great team with really good culture. Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: That's what we do here Lucas Underwood: to make the world a better place, baby. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. That's what we do here. Lucas Underwood: Well, hey listen, I just got a text message from the producer. He says he too late, calls us too late, double overtime for every minute, past an hour. So I, we Cecil Bullard: better go, Lucas Underwood: right? You're gonna be yelling at me for my p and l here in a few hours. Lucas Underwood: There we go. Cecil Bullard: No worries, baby. Lucas Underwood: It's a big bill, man. It's a big bill. So, Cecil Bullard: and we can do this again. So Lucas Underwood: that's it. No worries. That's it. Cecil, thank you so much. I think this was an awesome conversation. I appreciate all the wisdom and knowledge you shared and I can't wait to do you Cecil Bullard: too, brother. Lucas Underwood: See you buddy. Cecil Bullard: You too brother. Bye-bye.

168 - Pay Plans, Profits, and People: Inside Lake Sumter Auto Repair with Bobby Lambert November 11, 2025 - 00:25:28   Show Summary: Jimmy Lea sits down with Florida shop owner Bobby Lambert of Lake Sumter Transmissions and Auto Repair to trace his journey from VO-tech student turning wrenches to successful multi-shop owner. Bobby shares how a high school instructor opened the door to transmission work, a move to Florida “chasing a girl” led to a lifelong career, and decades in one shop eventually turned into an ownership opportunity. After buying the business in 2018, he quickly realized how much he did not know about the numbers and credits coaching and 20 groups with reshaping his skills as an owner. Bobby explains how adding general auto repair around the 2008 downturn set the stage for growth and later expansion to a second location with a rough reputation that he is steadily turning around. He breaks down his approach to pay plans for techs and advisors, why flexibility attracts top talent, and how he consistently hits 20 percent plus net profit by controlling expenses instead of chasing every dollar of revenue. The conversation closes with his succession and retirement plans, traveling the country in a motorhome, and his belief that neighboring shops should lock arms instead of competing out of fear.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Bobby Lambert, Owner of Lake Sumter Transmissions & Auto Repair   Show Highlights: [00:01:46] - Bobby shares how a high school VO-tech program and his teacher’s transmission shop launched his career in the aftermarket. [00:02:58] - Moving to Florida “chasing a girl” leads Bobby to Lake Sumter Transmissions in 1982, where he works nearly every role in the business. [00:07:57] - Bobby buys the shop in January 2018 and quickly realizes ownership requires a totally different skillset than managing daily operations. [00:09:47] - After hearing Dan speak at a NAPA conference, Bobby signs up for coaching and classes that reshape how he thinks about his numbers and his market. [00:11:59] - Inspired by multi-shop owners in his Gear Performance Group, Bobby takes a chance on a second, struggling shop and installs a coachable manager. [00:15:02] - With retirement three to five years away, Bobby outlines a plan for each manager to buy their location, supported by succession guidance from Michael Smith. [00:17:47] - Bobby explains how disciplined expense control helps him consistently achieve 20 percent or better net profit at his shops. [00:20:52] - He breaks down flexible pay plans for technicians, using hourly, guarantees, and flat rate to match each tech’s stage and strengths. [00:26:47] - Service advisors earn salary plus bonuses tied to shop and individual gross profit, encouraging true teamwork at the counter. [00:37:13] - Bobby urges owners to get coaching early and see neighboring shops as partners to lock arms with, not competitors to fear.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friend. Good to be with you again, this bright and beautiful sunshiny day. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is the one, the only, Bobby Lambert. Bobby, how the heck are you, brother? Bobby Lambert: Doing great. It's a little chilly down here in Florida this morning, but it's a beautiful day. Like you said, it's sun shining. Birds are chirping. I guess I'm, Jimmy Lea: It's not often that Florida is colder than Utah, but today it's colder than Utah. Bobby Lambert: We'll get colder than utah. Jimmy Lea: Well, of all the things, and in fact you're colder by 10 degrees. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Colder than what Utah is this morning. So are is Florida. Wondering, have the, has hell frozen over what's going on here? Bobby Lambert: No. We we get these little cold bursts, but they're only every Jimmy Lea: once in a while, Bobby Lambert: one or two days, and then it is gone. So, Jimmy Lea: so do you keep a jacket for those one or two days or do you Bobby Lambert: just. Jimmy Lea: Tough it out. Bobby Lambert: No, we keep jackets. I was scurrying this morning getting propane for the shop heaters so the guys would, could function a little bit. Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. That's hilarious. Because you, you're down in the 34 degrees this morning Bobby Lambert: and we were Jimmy Lea: Oh, my word. Yeah. And Utah, we were 44 degrees. And this podcast is being recorded on Veteran's Day, November 11th. Bobby Lambert: Thank you to all the veterans. Jimmy Lea: Thank you to all the veterans. Thank you for your service. Thank you for keeping us free and where Freedom Rings. Love it. Bobby, I want to get right into this in talking about your journey and your experience, how did you get into the automotive aftermarket? Bobby Lambert: Pretty much like everyone else, I had this burning desire when I was a kid to wanna know how things worked and work on things and, you know. Bobby Lambert: I went through the VO-tech program in our high school, and the instructor there had a transmission shop, and I worked for him in the afternoons, and then I moved to Florida and went to work here at Lake Sumter Transmissions in 1982. Pretty much had every job in this place up until 2017 when the previous owners decided they wanted to retire. Bobby Lambert: And offered me the business and showed me how to make it pay for itself and with their help and help the institute here. I sit with the, you know, this shop on the verge of making its biggest year ever biggest profits, margins ever opened. My second shop this year it's just phenomenally rolling along and I couldn't be happier. Jimmy Lea: Bobby, that is phenomenal. Congratulations. I'm so excited. I'm, there's so much to unpack in what you have just said. I wanna go back to the start here. You're at the vo-tech program at high school. Where did you go to high school? Bobby Lambert: Camden High School in Camden, South Carolina. Jimmy Lea: South Carolina. Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Thank you to the vo-tech program. Thank you for those teachers who would take you under their wing, bring you into the transmission shop, which is the Bobby Lambert: absolutely Jimmy Lea: puzzle of a thousand pieces with no pictures. Jimmy Lea: When did you start working on transmissions? When did you start breaking them down and putting 'em back together? Jimmy Lea: What did that look like for you? Bobby Lambert: Pretty much when I was a senior in high school, he, you know, we'd. We were working on 'em in the vo-tech class. And then, like I said, I was working with him in the afternoon, so I'd pull the transmissions out and have 'em torn apart. He'd come in order the parts and you we'd work on putting 'em back together. Bobby Lambert: And then I moved to Florida and started all over. Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. That's amazing. So, what took you to Florida from South Carolina? Bobby Lambert: We're chasing a girl. Jimmy Lea: Ah, there it is. Did you catch the girl? Bobby Lambert: For about a year, and then she moved on, so I Jimmy Lea: stayed. Ah, there you go. So you were already at Link Sumner when when she moved on? Jimmy Lea: Yes. And your career just continued on there. So as you are working at Link Sumner did they have a program laid out for you? Did you have training laid out for you? Did what? What did that future look like for you? Bobby Lambert: It, it was back in 82, 83. So really wasn't a whole lot of programs out there for this kind of stuff. Bobby Lambert: It was pretty much on the job training. I was an r and r Tech for about a year, and then they started bringing me along, building transmissions. Started with the Turbo three 50 and it was pretty easy transmission. Okay. We would stay at. In the evenings about two hours a night and work on individual pieces of that transmission, how they worked, putting 'em together, you know, and it was just my time and his time didn't get paid for it, but I learned a huge skill. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Bobby Lambert: So, so Jimmy Lea: is this something that the owner did know? Bobby Lambert: The owner. The owners did, yes. For you? Yep. The owners did. Jimmy Lea: So this is a two hour course every night that you're learning and learning more about transmissions. Yes. How they work, why they work, what each of the elements are inside of them. Jimmy Lea: So this is your free education that only costs you time. Bobby Lambert: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. That's awesome. Bobby Lambert: It was Jimmy Lea: awesome. Jimmy Lea: Your technical skill was growing by the school of hard knocks. You were, yes. You were learning and growing all along the way. And learning all about these transmissions. So at what point did you transition from transmissions to full auto care? Bobby Lambert: Probably around 2008 when the economy tank and cash for clunkers were here and they were crushing all the cars that we were gonna have to. Put transmissions in and we were slow and customer would come in, Hey, while you got it, can you put spark plugs in? Sure, we can do that. I mean, so, you know, and it just, it started snowballing from there and it's probably 45 or 50% of my business now. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. So, and what does the layout look like of the first Lake Sumpter? What's that layout look like with your transmission shop? Bobby Lambert: This particular location has 10 bays. Nine of 'em are inside, one's an outside bay for motor homes and box trucks and that kind of stuff. Six technicians, three service advisors, customer service agent, and my manager, my wife, my side myself and my wife. Bobby Lambert: So pretty big staff here? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That is 10 bays. And how many technicians did you say? Bobby Lambert: Six technicians. I left my transmission builder out, so he's, that's all he does is build transmission. So he is not really out there slinging wrenches on the cars or anything. He's out there, you know, making sure the transmissions are fixed. Jimmy Lea: Right. Right, right, right. So, of your six you have six technicians doing auto care. Do they also do transmission as well, or Bobby Lambert: They'll r and r the transmissions? Yes. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Wow. Okay. And at what point after you, well, what leading up to you buying the shop, what year did you buy Lake Sumner? Bobby Lambert: I bought it in January of 2018. Jimmy Lea: Oh my word, congratulations. Exciting, scary as heck. Bobby Lambert: Yes. Yes, Jimmy Lea: yes. To all the above. And Bobby Lambert: then Jimmy Lea: some more. So what did that process look like for you with the previous owners and you buying it out? Bobby Lambert: You know, they had brought me along every step of the way from the r and r tech building transmissions, and I was their diagnostic tech. Bobby Lambert: Then I was a service advisor. And manager and the only thing I didn't do was sign the checks. But then, you know, they just taught me so much. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: But there was a lot that they didn't teach me, which I found out after I signed on the bottom line there. Hey, I knew nothing about these numbers in this office. Bobby Lambert: And that's where. The institute, well, when it was RLO is when I signed up with them and of course when Cecil and everybody bought it, it was big change. But it's been a, it's been a huge help. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, for sure. So here you are growing up in the business, just like the Rockefeller, you did everything from sweeping the floors and buying the stir sticks to wiping the counters and working the front counter. Jimmy Lea: You were the general manager, and you would've thought that doing everything in that day-to-day, you would've thought that you knew how to run the business, and then you discover Bobby Lambert: no, Jimmy Lea: being the owner is a different skillset, Bobby Lambert: a whole different skillset set. Jimmy Lea: So how long did you go from signing on the dotted line to saying, okay, I need coaching and training? Bobby Lambert: We signed in January went to the NAPA conference in Biloxi in June and sat in Dan's class and says, damn, that guy's telling me everything I need to hear. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: So I immediately found him at the expo hall and said, sign me up. Jimmy Lea: Sign me up. I'm in. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. I got, I had to do something because, Jimmy Lea: oh, congratulations. Jimmy Lea: That that's such a unique situation to know that you didn't know. And then once you heard it, you were saying, oh my gosh, yes. I need to know more about everything that this man is teaching and talking about whole different skill set. Bobby Lambert: Then they put me through the Gorilla Shop management course with Vic. Bobby Lambert: And went through that, signed me up with John LERs. A coach. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: And he kicked my ass for about a year and a half. Jimmy Lea: Good, good. Sounds like you needed it. Bobby Lambert: I did. I did so, and I was that I can't do that. My, my area won't support that. Yeah. It will. Jimmy Lea: It will. Yeah, it does. Yes, it does. Right. Bobby Lambert: And then we joined up in the BDG group or the, I'm sorry the Jimmy Lea: BBL group. Jimmy Lea: BPG. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Bbl. Yeah. Bottom line named Pat Group. Bobby Lambert: Yep. Jimmy Lea: And now you're in the Gear performance group Bobby Lambert: with my, yep. Uhhuh. Jimmy Lea: Which, which group are you in? Bobby Lambert: Group two. Jimmy Lea: Group two. Oh yeah. That's the technology, the best group technology. That is a very good group for sure. They are very forward thinking. Jimmy Lea: Technology adopting group two is on the cutting edge. So yeah you are in a good group there, Bobby. That's awesome. Bobby Lambert: And that brings us to where we're at today Jimmy Lea: and where are you at today? Oh, that is awesome. So at what point do you decide you look around and say, Hey, you know what? I think it's time to open a second shop. Jimmy Lea: Let's go find something to buy. Let's go find something to build. What did you do? Bobby Lambert: You know, I'm sitting there in these these gear performance groups and listening to other multi shop owners. There's I think three or four of us in there, and I'm thinking. First we were in there with AJ and you know, Jimmy Lea: AJ Neely, great Bobby Lambert: guy, Jimmy Lea: love him. Bobby Lambert: And he scared me to death. I had no earthly idea how that guy just does what he does, but he does it. But and I'm like, man, that's some ambition. I don't know if I ever want two shots. And then one came available. So, and I had a friend of mine that wanted to manage a shop. I took a chance on him and it's it's doing well. Jimmy Lea: Well, congratulations. What does this second shop look like? What's the footprint? Bobby Lambert: The footprint of that one is four bays, again, one more bay outside. So five, five lifts in total two techs and my manager slash service advisor there. So just three people at that shop, but Jimmy Lea: Wow. Bobby Lambert: Wow. It didn't have the best reputation and we're slowly turning it around. Bobby Lambert: I've gotten him in the the coaching program with Ryan in the apg With the advisor? Yeah, sorry. Advisor performance group. Yeah. And he's picking up something every time they talk and that's just so excited. So excited. I gotta reign him in. He gets going too fast and just gotta slow him down a little bit. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Don't outrun the horses. Come on now. Hold up. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. But that shop is it's turning around. Like I said it's growing every month. It's not putting up huge numbers or anything, but it's a steady climb and steady progression and we we're extremely fortunate. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. With these smaller shops, these three bays, four bays, two techs, one service advisor. Jimmy Lea: It can be a lean, mean fighting machine. You know? Yeah. It doesn't put up the big numbers, but the net, the gross profit, the net profit, it can be very impressive. Bobby Lambert: Yes. So, Jimmy Lea: so if something came along again, Bobby and would there be an option for a third shop? Bobby Lambert: I can say yes. 'cause my wife's not here in the office with me today. Bobby Lambert: She's at home so. She would be shooting daggers if she saw that, but I would not be opposed to a third shop if one came along. Yeah. But the caveat to that is I've only got about four more years left in me before I'm ready to retire. Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. No, let's talk about retiring and if you're retiring then what? Jimmy Lea: Well, not the, then what, hold on. Let's back up. Jimmy Lea: Who's gonna buy your shops from you? What's the plan there? Do you have a plan in place? Bobby Lambert: I have a semi plan. Yeah. We don't have anything hammered out in full details or anything, but yes, my my manager at this location is very much interested in this one and the manager, the other one, he's interested in that one. Bobby Lambert: So I'll split 'em up and, have them buy them if they want. And if we can't, then I'm talking to my buddy Michael Smith and I'm in his classes as well. So you can't learn too much in this business. Jimmy Lea: And even if they are not the ones that end up buying it. Even if, and let's go with that as the current plan, you still need to talk to Michael Smith. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Michael Herzberg Smith about that succession plan. That's something that you do want to have in place and the way to start it is now Bobby Lambert: yes. Jimmy Lea: Anybody that wants to sell their business and they want to sell it today. We need a flex capacitor in 88 miles an hour. 'cause we gotta go back in time three to five years. Jimmy Lea: So you are in the perfect spot is put in place so that your key employees are the ones that are able to buy it and there are ways for them to buy it where don't have to come in with cold hard cash and put 20% down. Bobby Lambert: Right. Jimmy Lea: Over the next three to five years, they're earning that 20% down. And then they are able to refinance it, get a small business loan. Jimmy Lea: And and Bobby and wife are sitting on the beach drinking my ties. Bobby Lambert: That's right. But yeah, the Michael Smith is he is a wealth of information and we've we've been talking and trying to hammer out a few details here and there, and Jimmy Lea: good. Bobby Lambert: But I'll go back to the previous owners that had this shop when I bought it there, there were two of them. Bobby Lambert: And one of 'em told me, he says, the day you sign on the line, start your exit plan. Jimmy Lea: Oh, so smart. Bobby Lambert: So start right there, know where your goal is and keep it in sight. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, Bobby Lambert: the other one said, get yourself in a good 20 group. Jimmy Lea: Bingo. Bobby Lambert: Like I said, me, how do it, Jimmy Lea: what's a 20 girl Bobby Lambert: not go? Yep. Showed me how to do it and not go wrong. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. That's good. Congratulations, man. That's awesome. So the future is three to five years. Bobby's ready to retire. Jimmy Lea: Gonna sell the businesses. And then what? Bobby Lambert: Well, we just bought a motor home, so we're gonna travel the country a little bit in the motor home and see what's out there. Love Jimmy Lea: it. Bobby Lambert: Keep popping in here and see how these guys are doing. And Jimmy Lea: there you go. I love it. I love it. Bobby Lambert: Tell 'em all about my adventures and. Love it. I'm going again. Jimmy Lea: We'll get you one of these water bottles that has the national parks on it and you go visit every single one of the national parks. Jimmy Lea: And when you get to Utah, let me know 'cause I'll show you right where all the good Utah parks are. Bobby Lambert: I'll do it. Jimmy Lea: Cool. But, Bobby Lambert: Yeah the future looks good for us. I'm super happy with where the shop is. We are consistently. That 20 plus percent Jimmy Lea: net profit. Bobby Lambert: Yes. Month after month, Jimmy Lea: 20 plus percent net profit, Bobby Lambert: month after month, year after year. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. How do you do that? Bobby Lambert: How? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: You get a fantastic coach and facilitator like Jennifer. Jennifer Holbert. Jimmy Lea: Jennifer Holbert is awesome. I agree. Bobby Lambert: She. Helps me watch my numbers, but the key is control your expenses. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: If you're making money, save some money. Jimmy Lea: Amen. Bobby Lambert: You don't have to spend everything you make. Jimmy Lea: That is so true. But I just did a podcast very recently with Clinton and he talked about how one year compared to the next, he cut. A ton of expenses. He did $16,000 less in total revenue, but netted an additional 8,000 for the entire year. If you can control your expenses, you can control what you take home, and that's where the awards come from, is you are awarded based on your ability to keep it. Jimmy Lea: Keep it in the bank, keep it at home. Bobby Lambert: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Good for you. Congratulations. Thank you. That is awesome, that you're able to work on the business and not necessarily in the business that you are expanding the business and growing the business. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. I don't make any appointments. I go say hi to customers, but I don't talk to customers about their vehicles. Bobby Lambert: I don't. It's just, that's not my job. Jimmy Lea: Right. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. It's I've got awesome people in place that do such a great job at doing that. Yeah. I don't need to, I just can go enjoy the customer, sit and have a conversation. Jimmy Lea: Let your employees do what they were hired to do. Let them do their job. Bobby Lambert: Yes. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. What now? We talk about empowering the employees and, you know, we all have bills to pay and we can't pay the bills on feel good. We do need money. How do you pay your employees? What's your pay plans for technicians and advisors? And managers? What do you do? Bobby Lambert: Well, no one pay plan is right for every technician. Jimmy Lea: True. Wow. Okay. So do you have different pay plans for each of your techs in-house right now? I do. Bobby Lambert: I do. Jimmy Lea: Oh my Bobby Lambert: god. I have hourly techs. I have techs that are on a guarantee and you know, I have flat rate techs. Just whatever that tech has. You can't take a 25 year tech and say you've been flat rate all your life. Bobby Lambert: You're going hourly. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. He wouldn't know how to compute Bobby Lambert: that. Yeah he's, so I. They know what they need. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, Bobby Lambert: I know what I need. So you tell me what you need. I'll see how we can make it work and we make things work. Jimmy Lea: So are there performance kickers in there as well? Bobby Lambert: There are, yes. Jimmy Lea: Okay. So let's talk about your hourly employees. Jimmy Lea: Your hourly technicians. Jimmy Lea: Who are they? What does it look like? Not specific names per se. Yeah. What's the demographic of it look like? Bobby Lambert: Basically, I've got two hourly techs and they're pretty much part-time. They're approaching retirement age, so they're not producing the hours, so let's keep them on an hourly. Bobby Lambert: They're, their bodies are not letting them do the jobs that they have done all their lives. Bobby Lambert: So we're backing 'em down. Yeah. Just. I'm not firing you. I wanna keep you going. You've got a great mind. You know so much about these cars. Let's keep you here. Let's make things happen for you. But at the same time, we're gonna cut your hours back so your body can let you enjoy some life. Bobby Lambert: Because if I keep pushing you 40 hours a week and your body keeps breaking down, you're giving me 20 hours a week in production. That's not good for either of us. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Bobby Lambert: So we, we back it down and you know, we pay 'em what they need to make a living. My guaranteed texts once they hit their minimum hours, they get a bump. Bobby Lambert: So, usually, so, so what Jimmy Lea: is that number? Is it, is it a 40? Bobby Lambert: It's around 30, 32 hours is the minimum they have to turn. Jimmy Lea: Per week. Okay. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. So once they hit that, they get a $5 an hour bump back to hour one. Jimmy Lea: That's phenomenal. And so these gen, these ladies and gentlemen that are on a guarantee, how often do they exceed that? Jimmy Lea: 32 Bobby Lambert: Most every week. Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. Bobby Lambert: So Jimmy Lea: does that mean that they're up in the forties? Jimmy Lea: 40 twos fi. 40 fives, Bobby Lambert: yes. Jimmy Lea: Wow. That's extraordinary. That's awesome. Congrats. And then you say you also have technicians that are flat rate. What does that look like? Bobby Lambert: My flat rate techs, there's two of them. Bobby Lambert: One of them is an r and r Tech. All he is, that's all he is done all his life. R and r transmissions phenomenal at it. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Bobby Lambert: He's producing. 50 to 70 hours every week, just slinging transmissions. Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. Bobby Lambert: Just slinging transmissions. Jimmy Lea: That's because he knows all the shortcuts. He knows the secrets, he knows the how tos and whatnots and have been, and probably could do it in his sleep blindfolded. Bobby Lambert: And you know, you say that the secrets and the shortcuts, but it's so much more than that. It's a mindset. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It Bobby Lambert: doesn't look at the job as like, oh, I hate these things. It, this. He just looks at it and says, this is a job. It pays four hours. I can get it done in two. Jimmy Lea: Ooh, bingo. Bobby Lambert: And it is, just get on it, get it done. Bobby Lambert: Gimme another one. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Yeah. Just line him up. Line him up and I'll knock him down. Bobby Lambert: I have to slow him down sometimes because you, we have 10 lifts and he'll have. Six transmissions out. So you got six lifts tied up with transmission. So we have to drink. Reign him in just a little bit once in a while. Bobby Lambert: But Jimmy Lea: yeah, that's pretty, that was, that's pretty good. He's got six transmissions out to keep all those straight in your head and know exactly where you're on each single one of 'em. Oh my goodness sakes. What a mind That is phenomenal. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Bobby, that, that is amazing. You've got such a a diverse group, such a motley crew put together of hourlies and guarantees and flat rates. I mean, any discussion that comes around, you can participate. You're in there. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. Well, you have to, like I said, I mean, everybody doesn't work the same way. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: You when you want top talent, it's. Meeting them where they need to be. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. I love that you've got those performance kickers in there as well at a level that says, Hey, I know you can hit this every month. And this is, keep your job. Hit 32. Count 32, bonus. Let's go. Yeah. You want to rake it in for a really good Christmas? Jimmy Lea: Let's go. Bobby Lambert: Yep, Jimmy Lea: we can do that. All right. Now what about your advisors? How are they, what's their pay plan look like? Bobby Lambert: My advisors are all a weekly salary. Then at the end of the month they get bonuses off of their gross profit dollars. Usually it's one and a half percent of the shops gross profit dollars, 3% of their individual. Bobby Lambert: So. They'll get a bonus usually in the neighborhood of about four grand a month. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Bobby Lambert: So it, it keeps them motivated to help each other because they're getting one and a half percent of what the shop does. If it's just paying them what they do, I'm not helping him with that. That's his customer. Bobby Lambert: He can, but no, I mean, you're all in this together. You're all getting paid but's. Jimmy Lea: It's a team. It's a team effort. Bobby Lambert: It is a team. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's extraordinary. And it's paid off of the gross profit. Did I hear you say that right? Bobby Lambert: Gross profit dollars? Yes. Jimmy Lea: Wow. That's phenomenal. And each, and how many service advisors do you have? Bobby Lambert: Three. Three At this shop and one at the other? Jimmy Lea: Three at this shop. And one at the other shop? Bobby Lambert: Yes. Jimmy Lea: But the, and the shops do operate separately, or is it Bobby Lambert: They're completely separate businesses. Jimmy Lea: Separate business. Separate business names. Bobby Lambert: Well, they're, well this is Lake Sumter Transmissions and Auto Repair. Bobby Lambert: The other one is Lake Sumter Auto Repair. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Okay. And they operate separate. So each one, each advisor is concerned about making sure that their company, their business, their operation is functioning at the best they can possibly. Exactly. It's phenomenal. That is phenomenal. That's very cool. I you've got a great program set up there and how did you come about all of these different ideas or all these different ways of paying all your technicians? Jimmy Lea: Where did that come from? Bobby Lambert: You? Just a lot of listening in my 20 group. And if you got a question, you put it out there, somebody's got an answer for it. So, and that's the. Biggest bonus to these 20 groups is the amount of knowledge that's in that room when you're in there, in that three day meeting. Bobby Lambert: But it extends to every day. I can shoot a text out and say, Hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you guys, what do, what's your thoughts on this? Excuse me. And I'll get five or six answers in 15 minutes. And it, they are awesome people. Awesome businessmen. Jimmy Lea: That is very cool. See, I and I explain this to a lot of people and I try to explain it. Jimmy Lea: If you can confirm or deny. Here. You come to the group and you've got this huge mountain of a problem that you think is a huge mountain of a problem because you have thought about it and thought about it and thought about it, and you're thinking, oh my gosh, there's no way I'm gonna be able to get over this mountain. Jimmy Lea: This is a huge problem. What am I gonna do? You put it out to the group and the group comes back and says, oh, Sally solved that here last week. And John was last month. And Joe did it the other day. So here's five different solutions. From five different areas, five different companies, what they did. Jimmy Lea: So you listen to all this and go, oh, it's not a mountain anymore. This is a mole hill. I can easily step over that. And the group is saying, okay, come on, let's go. Bobby Lambert: You the, you say that and it's, I think back to. When I bought the shop, what our hourly shop rate was and we were below a hundred dollars an hour. Bobby Lambert: We were at like $96 an hour or something like that, right? And Waffler kept saying, raise your labor rate. You're way too low. You need to be 115, said John, I can't get 115. So it took him, I don't know, 3, 4, 5 months of just get over that a hundred dollars. Finally I went over a hundred dollars and it was like nobody noticed. Jimmy Lea: No, Bobby Lambert: it's 110. Nobody noticed it. It the only one that's noticing that labor rate is me. Bobby Lambert: I, and I, and that's the same way with just about anything. I mean, you see a change that you need to make and you talk yourself and talk yourself, and it's. Not a huge deal. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: You make it a huge deal, but it's not a big deal. Jimmy Lea: No, it's really not. And I talked I spoke with a friend of mine about this specifically raising your labor rate, and we were talking about $10, raise it by $10, raise it by $20, raise it by $30, and he's like, oh no. Jimmy Lea: Okay I'm gonna raise it by $4 and 50 cents. Bobby Lambert: You don't move the needle. Jimmy Lea: Listen, shop owner I happen to know that your average ticket is two and a half hours. That's an additional 13 bucks. Jimmy Lea: No. Is anybody gonna notice that? No. What if you do it by $10 and it's an additional 25 bucks? Is anybody get a notice? Bobby Lambert: No. Jimmy Lea: No? Okay. What if it's an additional 50 bucks? Anybody get a notice? Probably not, but maybe Bobby Lambert: The ones that'll notice are the ones that you don't really want anyway, the customer that you don't, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah. And it could be a, an easy way of chasing off the customers that you Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Really shouldn't be servicing anyways. They're the 80 20 rule. That's that 20% that takes up 80% of your time, Bobby Lambert: you'll get that better quality vehicle to work on. Jimmy Lea: Oh, bingo. Bingo. What does your shops work on? What do you guys like to work on? Bobby Lambert: We don't care if it's broke, we'll fix it. Jimmy Lea: It's got wheels in an engine. Jimmy Lea: We'll work on it. Bobby Lambert: We don't shy away from anything. And maybe that's our detriment. Now in our main shop here, like I said, we have 10 bays here. We have two extra bays that it's in a separate building that we do classic cars in. Jimmy Lea: Oh. Bobby Lambert: So, you know, we're down here at the edge of the villages and there's so much disposable income in there. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. And disposable money. And they got the cars that they have always wanted when they were in high school. These cars leak constantly. They lease when they were new. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: So we keep two in that building pretty much all the time. And there's a list, a waiting list to get in that building. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That's amazing. Bobby Lambert: Just work on just about anything. Right now I think we've got a 70 Plymouth Road runner in there and a 72 Chevy pickup truck. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. What great trucks I, in high school or college, I drove a 71 long bed. Jimmy Lea: Had a granny, granny gear and three. Bobby Lambert: Yep. This one's a long bed with Power Glide. Jimmy Lea: Oh, gee I tell you, any, if I tried to go faster than 65 miles an hour, that old engine was just a screaming at me. It didn't have any more gears. Bobby Lambert: Kept you from speeding. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah, it did. Yeah. No, couldn't do it. The only way I'd speed is going downhill with a tailwind. Bobby Lambert: But, Jimmy Lea: Oh, so fun. So fun. Well, Bobby, if you had a a magic wand and you could change anything in the industry, what's something you would change in the industry and you can't wish for more wishes? Bobby Lambert: No. I could change anything in the industry. Bobby Lambert: Oh, man. Yeah. You know, I There's a lot of things that you could change. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bobby Lambert: In my little world. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, Bobby Lambert: I, I, my little wand here says, Hey buddy, you're perfect. Let's keep this thing going. Let's just, let's not rock the boat too bad. But the magic wand I'D wave would be at insurance companies and try to get some decent rates. Bobby Lambert: God, it's so expensive. Health insurance and garage keepers. It is all just way overpriced. Jimmy Lea: Amen, brother. Amen. Bobby Lambert: But everybody's gotta make a living, so that's what they're doing. So Jimmy Lea: there you go. Bobby Lambert: But no that's probably the only thing I'd wanna change would be something like that. 'cause I love my life right now. Bobby Lambert: It's doing great. I can sit here and look out the door and I can see all my guys walking back and forth roundabout and the cars in the parking lot. And life is good over here in, in Lee Burke, Florida. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. It's a, it's good to live a blessed life. Bobby Lambert: Its, Jimmy Lea: you're living that blessed life. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. Bobby Lambert: And that's huge respect and props to the institute for showing me how to live this life that that is been bestowed upon me, I guess. Jimmy Lea: Ah, that's beautiful here. You were growing up in the industry. You have the chops, you have the technical background for everything technical, and you knew there was things you thought you knew at all and then you discovered, oh my gosh, there's things I don't know. Jimmy Lea: I don't know. Jimmy Lea: I need training, I need coaching, I need guidance and props to you for seeking out that guidance. And Bobby, I think I was at that Biloxi, Mississippi 2018. Bobby Lambert: You probably were, Jimmy Lea: I was probably there. You were probably there at the same time. That's pretty cool. Bobby Lambert: Yeah, Jimmy Lea: that's pretty cool. So, one, one last final question for you. Jimmy Lea: If you were starting fresh today, what advice would you give yourself? Bobby Lambert: Oh, probably the same advice that that I got when I did get started is yeah. Find someone to help you over the rough spots and you're gonna have rough spots. But they they're pretty easy If you get a good support system to help carry you right across the top of 'em. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Go for the coaching and training. Jimmy Lea: It's gonna make a world of difference. Bobby Lambert: It does. I've actually got two shops in our area that I got coaching. With the institute and now they're 20 group members as well, so. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations that Talk about locking arms with your neighbors. This is great. Bobby Lambert: Yeah. That was something else that was taught to me. Bobby Lambert: They're not competition, they're not competitors. They're other shop owners. There are other business owners. Everybody. There's enough out there for everybody Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. To Bobby Lambert: help somebody along. Oh, Jimmy Lea: amen. Bobby Lambert: Don't kick 'em to the curb whenever they're down. Just, Hey, what do you need, buddy? Bobby Lambert: Amen. Let's talk this thing through. Let's figure things out. Jimmy Lea: For you. Congratulations. That's awesome. You've locked arms together with them and Yeah. I mean, think about it. If the three of you and the four shops that you represent, it, could you service every car that passed in front of your shop every single day? Bobby Lambert: No. Jimmy Lea: No. Not a chance. Let's lock arms, let's elevate the industry. And Bob, Bobby, props to you brother for elevating this industry. Bobby Lambert: Sure. Thank you. Jimmy Lea: That is super cool. Thank you very much, Bobby. I really appreciate it, brother. Bobby Lambert: Jimmy, thanks for your time today. It was a absolute that had a lot of fun. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's what we're all about. We're here to have fun. If we're not having fun, we're not doing it right. If we're not doing it right, we better find something else to do. All right, Bobby, thank you very much. Bobby Lambert: Thank you, Jimmy.

167 - Owning the Alignment Niche and Building a Happier, High-Margin Shop with Alejandro Muñoz October 30, 2025 - 00:40:23   Show Summary: From sweeping floors in New Jersey to leading All Four Tires in Marietta, Georgia, Alejandro Muñoz shares how he built a tire and suspension focused business that fits his life. He scaled up to 18 bays, then intentionally downsized to six to reduce stress and raise margins. Alejandro explains why not every shop needs a master tech and how a tight scope of work can improve quality and profitability. He details his apprentice-first training approach, consistent retention, and a culture that rewards learning and life balance. The conversation covers hands-on training goals, DVI-driven maintenance sales, and stocking strategies that speed throughput. Alejandro also describes designing a customer-forward facility to elevate how the public views our industry. His closing advice is simple and powerful: do not overspend, learn the business side, and invest in yourself.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Alejandro Munoz, Owner of All 4 Tires LLC   Show Highlights: [00:04:27] - Alejandro buys a three-unit property, scales to 18 bays, then later consolidates to one unit to reduce complexity and stress. [00:06:56] - Intentional downsizing to six bays increases free time and lifts gross profit margin while keeping the business stable. [00:08:04] - Lean team model: two full-time B-techs, a part-time learner, a long-tenured service advisor, and Alejandro overseeing training and quality. [00:09:00] - Clear scope wins: tires, suspension, alignments, and emissions repairs, avoiding work that requires a different talent mix. [00:10:49] - In-house apprenticeship: classroom sessions, projector-based lessons, and a three-plus-year average retention for techs who start with little experience. [00:11:44] - Culture moments that matter: a paid December Caribbean trip for the whole team tied to collective performance. [00:15:34] - Tires are 30% of sales but drive most suspension work, with reputation bringing in six alignment appointments per day. [00:17:42] - DVI process and smart stocking of filters, wipers, and batteries convert inspections into fast, ethical maintenance sales. [00:26:22] - Industry wish: change how the world sees automotive careers and shops by offering professional spaces and experiences. [00:33:48] - Hard-earned lesson: do not overspend; pay for knowledge or pay through mistakes, but always invest in business education.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello friend. My name is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Alex, and he is in Marietta, California. California, that's where my other cousin is. He's in Marietta, Georgia, where my other cousin is. His shop is called All Four Tires website, all four tires.com in Marietta, Georgia. Jimmy Lea: Welcome, if you will with me. Alex. Alex, how are you brother? Alejandro Munoz: I'm doing great. Thank you so much for the invite. Oh, you're welcome man. I'm excited to be here. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I'm excited for your shop as well. It looks like I'm looking at your website. It's a beautiful shop. You've got it set up extremely well. It's, this is cool. Jimmy Lea: How long have you been in business? Alejandro Munoz: Well, I've been, overtime has been open for 11 years this month. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And I've been in the automotive industry since 2010. Jimmy Lea: I remember 10. That's when I had to reinvent myself. So you got into the business, both of us. Let's go back to there. Jimmy Lea: 2010. What? What happened? How did you get into the automotive industry? Alejandro Munoz: Well, that's interesting you asked the question. I moved from Columbia, south America. I'm originally from there, and I, you know, for personal reasons, I have to move to the us. My mom lived in New Jersey and family members had a shop, a small shop, and I got the opportunity to get my first job there. Alejandro Munoz: Basically, you won't believe this, but sweeping the floor and learning how to do all the changes. Jimmy Lea: I believe it. That's where everybody starts. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. So, I stayed there for probably a couple years and I learned a lot. I have a background of engineering, so I'm a mechanical, I'm biomedical engineer, so it didn't take me too long. Alejandro Munoz: To kind of get my mind aligned with the automotive industry. I loved it since day one. Yeah. And I had great people around me. I remember I have a couple great technicians back in those days, which I learned a lot from, I. Watching, you know, passing them the tools and helping them clean their mess and, you know, asking them for the opportunity to jump on. Alejandro Munoz: And definitely after a few months, I was able to start working. Own cars, getting my own tools and, you know, a lot of independent study. Yeah. I gotta tell you that even though I have a background in engineering, I have to learn how cars work and that most of that happened at night, you know, so I'll finish working, I'll go home and I sign up to any online class or, you know, training available, and I just started absorbing until. Alejandro Munoz: Couple years later, I was already, you know, swapping engines and doing timing bells and all this kind of stuff. So we started selling tires in that same location in, in big volume. Yeah. And then I moved to a different company and this company was more towards tires. It was about 70% of their sales were just tires. Alejandro Munoz: Their inventory was huge. And over there I learned that part of how to sell tires in the automotive industry. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah, a few year, years later in 2014 I moved to Georgia and you know, I thought it was a better place to live you know, compared with New Jersey. With all respect for people from New Jersey. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. We love our friends from New Jersey. It's the garden state. There's a reason. It's the garden state and we know the history. Yes, but Georgia. Alejandro Munoz: Georgia, so I landed in Georgia and about nine months later I have found a pretty good shop to open all four tires and the rest is just, sorry. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. So what is the shop look like? How many bays? How many techs? And is this the, this is the shop you opened after being in Georgia for nine months. Alejandro Munoz: Yes. Yes. Okay. We have never moved. Well, it is good you ask. Offer Tire has been, you know, up and down over the years, like any other business. Alejandro Munoz: This shop is huge. The property has three different units. Each unit has about six base. So I was, I started leasing one after two and a half years. The owner was selling the property, so I bought all three units. 'cause it was, oh my Jimmy Lea: gosh. Yeah. Alejandro Munoz: It was part of the same parcel. So, and then I, with all the motivation and excitement that I had back in those days, I decided I wanted to occupy everything and didn't want to lease any part of the units. Alejandro Munoz: I pulled all three of units together. And yeah, we did a pretty good amount of growth sales during 20 17, 18 yeah, part of 19 until COVID. And then it took a big toll the amount of stress to manage a big job. You know, I went through emotions and, you know, stress and, you know, I was getting sick because I was just dealing a lot of, dealing with a lot of the, you know, day-to-day duties of running a chop with multiple people working for you. Alejandro Munoz: So, and then I I left the business running. With my service advisor, she's been with me almost since I opened. I mean, she joined me probably before nine months of being running the business and she's been with me since then. So yeah, I moved back to Columbia in 2021. Oh, and the business. Stay here, you know, open, and I came back about 18 months ago, but now with a different perspective, the small, the chop is smaller. Alejandro Munoz: Right now our gross profit margin is higher. Okay. But I, that was a personal decision. Yeah. That was, you know, it was not everybody wants to be a multi-location shop, and I learned that. Yes. You know, based on the experience, so, Jimmy Lea: yes. Yeah. Alejandro Munoz: The other two units now are rented or leased to other companies. Alejandro Munoz: What kind of companies? What, who's in there? We do have a mankey car care. Okay. We do have a car dealership. They don't do any retail, anything. They just fix their cars in that shop. There's really no customer flow there. Okay. And then we're here. Yes. Jimmy Lea: So, so you went from a single location, bought the entire thing, went garage Mahal on it, 18 bays, massive COVID hits, oh, hold on a second. Jimmy Lea: Let's reevaluate Now you're down to six bays. I'm assuming you're just in the one building, one location. Six bays and much happier. Alejandro Munoz: Much happier. A lot of free time for me and my family. And yes. Oh, nice. Yes, that's exactly how, congratulations how it is going right now. Jimmy Lea: So with the six Bays that you have now, how many technicians, how many service advisors what does the makeup look like? Alejandro Munoz: We do have two and a half technicians. Two, when I say two and a half is two, two full-time. And I always have a learner that it works part-time and you know, I have my service advisor and myself. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations. That's good. So the two technicians, do you have one that is the professor, one that is the trainer, coach for the half tech? Jimmy Lea: The part-time tech? Well, they, is it an apprentice? Alejandro Munoz: Yeah, I, oh no I do have a two B Techs. So they know enough to do what we do. Yeah. And it is interesting you asked the question 'cause not every chop. Needs a master tech that wants to make $200,000 a year. So our shop is limited to suspension tires and emission repairs, and we basically leave it there. Alejandro Munoz: All right. So what we do is basic. Jimmy Lea: Yes. And Alejandro Munoz: it, you know, with some, you know, requirements for computerized diagnostic, for like emissions, basically RC and sensors, catalytics and you know, and so forth. So. What I have done for several years and it's good you ask that question, is I have trained most of my technicians, I won't say everyone from scratch, but most of them come with. Alejandro Munoz: Little to no knowledge. And I've been a trainer, so I have a teacher inside of me. So I have the classes prepared. I do have, you know, a projector, my computer, we do have a pretty big training room here in the company, and I teach them everything they know. So I do, we do keep, I would say, an average of. Alejandro Munoz: Three and a half years of retention. We do know that this company it's al it also plays a role as cool for those who wants to learn and then fly away basically. So I, and it is interesting because every time I hire someone that wants to, I always tell them like, you probably not gonna stay here your whole life.   Jimmy Lea: Forever. Right? Alejandro Munoz: Forever. But I want you to learn as much as you can while you're next to me. So I do most of the training. I do oversee the shop. My friend Kelly, my service advisor she takes care of most of the customer. I'm, you know, as a business owner, I'm back and forth, you know. Sure. Customers know, obviously know who I am. Alejandro Munoz: But I love spending more time with my guys outside and, you know, making sure everything gets out on time and, you know. So on. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Alex, that is phenomenal. I appreciate the teacher spirit that you have in teaching your technicians. That's phenomenal. Have you taken your techs and gone to any conferences or trade shows? Alejandro Munoz: Some of them in the past have been with me. The ones that I currently have, they're, they haven't been able to go. Okay. The one is, they've both been here for about a year and a half. Speaker 3: Okay. Alejandro Munoz: So, since I came back from Columbia, as I told you so the situation of when you have a small shop now that is a small shop, it's, you know who gets to go. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. You know, and sometimes it's difficult to pick that, but I tell you what, we do have a Caribbean trip on December for Christmas, and we're closing the shop and everybody's going, so Jimmy Lea: bravo. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. So, you know, those are things that, and I always tell them, you know, don't take me for it. I'm not doing this for you. Alejandro Munoz: You guys are doing this for yourself. Like, you know, everything that we can do, it's. It's a teamwork. Yeah. Like everything that we do is for everybody. So we are gonna be living in about four weeks the first week of December, and we'll go to the beach. Everything pay. And that's good. Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. Jimmy Lea: They have been a blessing to you. Now you are being a blessing to them. And that's beautiful. I challenge you or this is free advice, so you know what free advice is worth. Take it into advisement. There's a show not very far from you in Raleigh, North Carolina. It's called a STA, automotive Service Tire Association, A STA. Jimmy Lea: They do it in, usually it's in September. And so if you set a goal that says, Hey guys, if we can operate at this level every month. We'll shut down the entire shop and we'll all go to training at A STA Raleigh, North Carolina. Anybody that operates at this level, you get a go. If you're down here, you don't get a go. Jimmy Lea: If you're up here, you get a go. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah that's great. I'll take that. But I also wanna share something. You know, it's interesting 'cause after COVID everything turned into virtual. Right much. Everybody wants to virtual classes. Yes. So I tell you what, back in the days before COVID Yes. We did have several opportunities for training with Goodyear Michelin. Alejandro Munoz: Yes. You know, we were actually part of a TI for five years. Yes. You're familiar with a TI, the coaching company? Yes. And we travel a lot and everybody. Got to go. Like we, but now, nowadays it's like you get this invitation to join a Zoom meeting. So yeah, training is pretty active. But it's most done online right now. Jimmy Lea: It is. And I love the online availability of it. I love the frequency and the ease of use, if you will. So we can be in Georgia and here we are in Utah. We put on the training and you're able to join. Because you can't always travel to Utah. We understand that. Yeah. In this training that they're doing with Asta, that hands-on training takes that learning level just a little bit higher. Jimmy Lea: So we, yeah, we learn on Zoom, we can do that, but now when we put hands-on, it elevates that education, elevates their learning. Alejandro Munoz: Yes, sir. Jimmy Lea: Every technician I've ever talked to, every shop owner I've ever talked to, when they come back from training, those technicians operate at a higher level. They have learned how to work a picoscope. Jimmy Lea: They've learned how to diagnose something. They've come back away from this training and say, you know what, if I would've known this. These other cars, we would've been able to fix those. We would've been able to make those repairs. And maybe for your business, because you're doing the filters, the shocks, the struts, the brakes, the brake pads, the calipers. Jimmy Lea: Maybe it's the easier stuff, but it's also what you're good at. Maybe you don't need to know about timing scopes and timing belts and water pumps and alternators and starters. Maybe you don't, maybe everything you need to know is right there in the tires and brakes and brake pads because what percentage of your business is tires versus auto repair? Alejandro Munoz: 30% of our sales is the tire itself. But the tire brings a lot of suspension work. It does. We used to have on our website all four tires, your tire and suspension experts, because there was a point since we opened, most of it will be suspension. Yes. Why? We very throttle on if you're gonna get a set of tires, we wanna make sure your tires will last Jimmy Lea: a hundred percent. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. So not only is it the suspension and the sway bars and the control arms, it's the alignment. Do you have an alignment machine too? Alejandro Munoz: Yes we do. And and it's interesting you mentioned like not everybody needs to learn about, you know, how to do, use a scope or how to do an electrical diagnostic. Alejandro Munoz: Suspension is a whole science. It is. So we are alignment experts here. We do alignments all day long. Just to give you an idea, we get an average six alignment appointments. That's how well our reputation is, where we at. People bring vehicles here with drivability issues that nobody has been able to resolve. Alejandro Munoz: So it's a whole science we spend most of our time. There on. And then the 30% of the tire sales that we do brings another. 60% additional on suspension work? Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. For sure. Alejandro Munoz: Absolutely. So I can tell you for sure, 80% of our business stays there. Tires and suspension. We do open hoods. Yeah, I know shops and I met a guy who actually was a trainer and I learned a lot from him. Alejandro Munoz: He said he own a shop and never open a hood. That's how you know. Interest in the suspension and tire is Oh yeah. Just fixing drivability issues. But we can tell probably 80% of our business comes from suspension and tires. Jimmy Lea: Nice. That's phenomenal. Do you also get into the, like the oil changes the fluid flushes filters, what? Jimmy Lea: Windshield wipers? Alejandro Munoz: Yes. We do all that. We do have a system in place to do a multi-point inspection and you get to. Sell most of these items almost guarantee per vehicle. Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, you Alejandro Munoz: pull your cabin filter, you air filter, you check your wipers, you check your battery, you have to have a battery tester and you have to have a pretty good system in place to do multiple inspections. Alejandro Munoz: The customers can see the pictures and videos and. And circles and details of what, what is needed. Oh, I love that. So we do have a filter rack. We keep most, 90%, 95% of the filters in the stock. And that's the only way to get done. Honestly. Nobody's gonna wait half an hour to an hour for an auto part to bring an air filter. Alejandro Munoz: So you have to stock your filters, you have to stock your wipers, you have to stock your batteries. So yeah, we do take care of that portion as well. We partnered with Baline about seven years ago. Okay. I would say already. So all our fluids are baling, so we do. Brake fluid replacement. We do differential fluid replacement. Alejandro Munoz: We don't touch transmissions. Because nowadays every transmission is different. It's not like in the nineties it was just one transmission fluid for everybody. Right. So we stay away. Yeah, we stay away from that. But we do power screen even though it's tending to disappear. And we do coolant flush, I mean, you name it. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. All the maintenance items will include it as part of our service as well. Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So what do you do as a company to retain your employees, to keep them engaged? How do you work on company culture? Alejandro Munoz: It's been a process. I can tell you this. From 2014 when I opened the doors, and you probably heard this a hundred times, you think you're a great technician, so you decide to open a shop and then you realize life is not as beautiful as you think. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Alejandro Munoz: So first, let me tell you this, you gotta work on yourself. Ooh, nice. My temper is not the same that it was in 2014. My patient is not the same that it was in 2014. You know? My ability to listen to other people's opinion. The ability to be able to share my knowledge with other people is from zero to 100. Alejandro Munoz: Like, I'm right here. I was right there. So that probably answers your question. You need to work on yourself. You have to have your personality in place. To be able to teach others what you want to transmit as a company, your culture, it starts with yourself. I do believe that if you're not honest, if you don't treat your customers well, if you don't show up on time, if you don't help cleaning the shop, if you don't lead by example, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Alejandro Munoz: It's it, your culture is gonna be completely destroyed. So, I have to obviously give credit to God. I believe in God. You know, I'm not a religious person, but I do know that, you know, God can help you significantly when you have challenges on your personality. Yeah. And he will, you know, he will guide you through it. Alejandro Munoz: So, and also education. Man, as I told you, we joined a coaching company for several years. I learned a lot. You know, as a business owner, if you want to create a culture, you gotta be around. You know, with those that are where you wanna be. If you wanna be a million dollar shop, then you have to meet with million dollar shop owners. Jimmy Lea: You gotta surround yourself with the same people that you want to be. Alejandro Munoz: Exactly. So we do, I mean, what else we do? We do have some perks here and there for the employees. We do pay for some of the tools. We obviously, we listen to them, to their personal needs. You know, if they have a family emergency, we take in consideration if they're parents, they have kids. Alejandro Munoz: You know, if at some point you might have people that have family members that you know depend on them to do daily duties. And you know, being able to listen to their needs as well. They will give you a hundred percent, 150%, 200%. It's not about the time or the amount of hours that they clock in, is the quality of service that they can provide you. Alejandro Munoz: When you adjust yourself, and I'm telling you this from a very conservative point of view, because I was raised differently than the way these kids are now in the market. Trying to find a job. Jimmy Lea: Right? Alejandro Munoz: It's a different world. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Alejandro Munoz: So you can't talk to them. Like, for example, I'm not too old, but I'm not too young. Alejandro Munoz: I consider myself like I'm in that age that I'm like a sandwich in the middle. I learn a different way that I'm teaching my employees, but. Yeah, you got, you kind of have to get the best of everything, you know? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Alejandro Munoz: It's, it is just to get adjusted to the culture, I guess, to understand what these generation is looking for. Jimmy Lea: Yes. You gotta be adaptable, Alejandro Munoz: you gotta be fluid and it is continuously changing. Every two, three years, you start seeing, and I'm telling you, because remember I told you this company's a school. Yeah. So I do get young people constantly. Every three years I get to get someone that just got outta high school. Alejandro Munoz: Right. And it's an, and I learn something every time you learning what you know their interest is and it's different every generation, every. Time that years go by. It's just different. Yeah. And you have to get adjusted to it. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's true. I've heard it said before that just because you're a business owner doesn't mean you're a good leader. Jimmy Lea: What does it mean to you to be a good leader? Alejandro Munoz: Lead by example? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Alejandro Munoz: I think that's key. The leader, you know, s. The leader is going to run next to you. It's not gonna ask you to run on your own. You know the leader is gonna be there to extend, you know, a hand when you need it, when you need to be lifted. The leader is gonna, it's just gonna show you, it's gonna transfer you information. Alejandro Munoz: He is gonna want you to grow. The leader wants you to be better than him. I mean, I'm not an expert on motivational, you know, writings and words, but I think that's basically how I would say a leader should behave. It's very important that you are with them. You share time with them, you listen to them, as I mentioned before. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. It's important. You gotta pay attention to your people. You gotta listen to them. I applaud you for working on yourself to have the patience to work with people, to have the patience, to listen to customers, to have the patience to be there with your people. And it is not just about you. Jimmy Lea: It's about them as well. That's very cool, Alex. That's really good. That's correct. So if you were to have a magic wand and you were to be, to have one wish, you can't wish for more wishes, but you have one wish, what would you change in the automotive aftermarket industry? Alejandro Munoz: Whoa, that's a tough one. Alejandro Munoz: I would say. The perspective of how the world see us. Jimmy Lea: You would change how the world sees the automotive aftermarket? Yes. Yes. Nice. And yeah, I would Go ahead. What would you change it? What would you change? What would you change? What would be the difference between is currently and what they see tomorrow? Alejandro Munoz: Okay. I'm a, I'm gonna give you this answer in two parts because there's two things that I wanna, two separate things I wanna discuss about what I just said. One is how people perceive it as a career, and the other one is how customers perceive you as a business. And that's why when you ask me what my wish would be, I'll say that one. Alejandro Munoz: Well, obviously when I, you know, being a biomedical engineer. And with good grades at school. My parents were not too happy when I said I wanted to open a shop. Jimmy Lea: Right. Alejandro Munoz: Okay. But I think that's normal. No, I don't blame them for it. And not only including my parents, but including most of my family members, you know, I got to love it. Alejandro Munoz: I didn't know how to explain it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They're wondering why do you go from being a doctor to being a tech technician, an automotive repair guy? I don't see the line. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. So how do I change it? I think I already did, you know, because I put a lot of effort in showing them this is as a beautiful career as any other, and I'm putting a lot of love on what you do every day. Alejandro Munoz: And with this, I'm not saying I'm happy every day I wake up, but I know I love what I do. I know it for sure. And that conviction sends a message. When you love something, you're gonna make it happen. Yeah. It's that simple. Yeah. You know, from turning wrenches or as I said, from sweeping a floor all the way to, you know, now just to say, you know, having real estate investments and, you know, other type of investments and still working on cars, you know? Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. Still doing what I love. Nice. That would that's one thing, you know, that's one of the things I told you and from the customer perspective is because when I wanted to open a shop the square footage in New Jersey is expensive. So you don't get to get a lot of space for cheap, let's say that way. Alejandro Munoz: Yes. So it's really hard to find a place. Where you can have a clean bathroom, you can have a waiting area such as, you know, dealerships do, you know, you go to a dealership, buy a new car and you have probably 20,000 square footage of, you know, customer area for customers to enjoy. So I say when I open a shop, I do wanna offer that. Alejandro Munoz: I do want to, I want them to walk in and they don't have to see an alternator on the counter. They don't want to put their fingers on and you know, so what I did to change it, man, we allocated about 2000 square feet of customer area, like just re between reception bathrooms and, you know, the TV room. Alejandro Munoz: We have you know, working. Like a work workspace where Workspace, yeah. The laptops. Yeah. Yeah. So the coworking area. Sorry about that. Yes. And we do, we did allocate area for our employees to take a break and have, you know, a small kitchen where they can. So everything I dream of, at some point I executed it and I changed that perspective. Alejandro Munoz: Some people walk in here and they say, man, this smells better than my house. Ah. Jimmy Lea: So we, congratulations. So it doesn't smell like oil. It doesn't smell like tires. It doesn't smell like rubber. It smells like relax. It smells good. It's cool. I pulled cinnamon by the way. Apple cinnamon. It's apple cinnamon. Alejandro Munoz: It's apple cinnamon. Yeah. Even when I'm here right now, I can smell it like every ev everything is, you know, putting love in details like every single nail on these walls. Because let me tell you another thing. I demolished about 70% of the. Office area and rebuild it the way I want it. Oh, wow. So I, yeah, I got to grab a hammer and take every wall down and we remodel everything and put new sheet rock and paint and everything is fresh. Alejandro Munoz: And I, I'm telling you, every single thing you see in this shop, it has love in it. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Alejandro Munoz: Every single. Every single thing. And we think about customers, you know, we have a baby changer on the battery. Like, you know, you never find a baby changer unless, again, unless you go to a dealership. Right. They probably do. Alejandro Munoz: But it's the pleasure to change the perspective. Yes. Thank you for that question, by the way, because I think that question is. It is. It is probably the best question I've really been asked, to be honest, but this is how I created a change to change the customer and the family and friends perspective of the automotive aftermarket industry. Jimmy Lea: Yes. We talk in the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. We talk about building a better business, and as a coaching and training company, this is what we are here to help you do, is to build a better business. Because when you build a better business, you have a better life. And not only do you have a better life, your spouse does, and your family does, and your service advisor does, and their significant others have a better life, and your technicians have a better life and their spouses and their children and their families, everybody benefits and has a better life. Jimmy Lea: And for the institute, we know that result will be in a better industry. Better business, better life, better industry. That's the foundation of our company and what we do. That's our vision in helping shops to take that next level and become what you have done. Alex, that, that's phenomenal. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations brother. That is super awesome. Thank Alejandro Munoz: you. Thank you so much. I'm actually happy to be able to share, you know, I love sharing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, right. Yeah, it is. It is. In with the teacher spirit. Alejandro Munoz: Yeah we do learn something new every day. I love it. I love it. Every day when I turn the key and I close at 6:00 PM I always go home with something new in my head. Alejandro Munoz: Love it. I always learn every day. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Oh, congratulations. That's so beautiful. That is so beautiful. So, last and final question here, we come into land. If you were to talk to yourself today. This is you years ago, before you were starting, what advice would you give yourself today if you were starting your business today? Alejandro Munoz: Don't overspend. Alejandro Munoz: Don't overspend. Oh my God. I can tell you how. I mean, I can spend hours telling you how immature I was financially when I opened. Four tires. Tires, it's, I look back and I say probably would not do that now. You know, save and invest. That's what I will tell myself. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Save and invest and I, I hear you saying things like, make sure you have an education. Jimmy Lea: Make sure you learn, make sure you have a good team that's helping you to build your business, because you as a technician need the business training. You need business acumen to take it up to that next level. Alejandro Munoz: Sorry, I lost you for a second. Jimmy Lea: You, you need the bi. So many of us as technicians, we have the technical training. Jimmy Lea: We can fix cars, we can repair cars, and you did this for hours and hours every evening. You were learning how to fix cars, fix and repair. And what we lack in the industry is the business acumen, the business knowledge, the business knowhow. Which is where you were talking about in the beginning. Jimmy Lea: You were very immature in your financial decisions. Where now, today, because of the school of hard knocks, you have learned how to be smarter with your business, how to be smarter with your money. Your advice is, hey, get the training and be smarter with your financial decisions. Alejandro Munoz: Knowledge is converting into dollars. I'm explain myself what I just said. You learn two ways. You pay someone to teach you or you're gonna make a big mistake that's gonna cost you money, and then you learn Jimmy Lea: either. It's so true. It's so true, Alex. You either paid somebody to help you get there, or you made a mistake and had to learn on your, I have a $17,000 lesson that I learned, but I want to hear what yours is. Alejandro Munoz: Okay. Oh. No I got many. I got many. I got many. I've been smart in certain areas, but I've been a fool in others. You know, I'm gonna give you, I know we have to be done in a minute, but let me just tell you this short story. When I opened all four tires, I didn't have a lot of money, so there's something I know now. Alejandro Munoz: I did smart. I bought. Almost brand new equipment from shops that were closing. I and I don't ask me how I found that. I think probably by just Googling, Googling at some point, you know, I got information and when I opened up four tires, I remember I got a $50,000 rack for like $3,000. And the, yeah. Alejandro Munoz: I'm talking about the alignment rack, the alignment machine, all that. And it was barely used. Yeah. And I paid three grand for the rack. And I remember I paying like 10,000 for the system itself the digital system, but it was worth $50,000. And I. That for like with the tire changer and the now, nowadays I can probably, you know, something breaks, we're just gonna order a new, but not back in the days when I opened. Alejandro Munoz: I that's a different story. It might take hours, but I can just tell you I didn't have what it was needed when I opened and it caused me a lot of stress at some point. So, and you can pay to get the knowledge. I told you I was trained, I was part of a coaching company, cost me thousands of dollars, but that also saved me a lot of trouble. Alejandro Munoz: Not only that, the return on investment was great. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Alejandro Munoz: So I tell everybody whoever's listening, either way, you're gonna have to pay you, choose what way you wanna take, what route you wanna take. All right. So it's a learning experience anyway. 'cause even though you get coach, that coach is not gonna do it for you. Alejandro Munoz: You need to start making changes on yourself, on your company. You gotta start influencing the people you work with. And then this is another thing when you start making changes, some of the people that you think they're with you, they will leave. Yes. Jimmy Lea: The people that got you where you are today are probably not the people that are gonna be with you when you get to where you want to go. Because they're with you for today. They might not have the same vision, the and the drive that you do to take it to that next level. So they, yes, they'll be with you today, but they may not be the ones that land with you when you make it to the final destination. Jimmy Lea: And that's, and, Alejandro Munoz: and for those who actually have let's say some sort of faith or belief and you kind of have to, you have to learn how to separate the employee that comes late because you know, always something happened. I'm so sorry. And then you wanna give them opportunity, over opportunity and then you gotta understand this is a business. Alejandro Munoz: Yes. Because if not, then you will go up in a church. It's that simple. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Alejandro Munoz: So it's to have that mentality clear because trust me, you can't run a business with emotions. You have to have a goal. You have to have your standards in place. You have to have a plan that your team knows what route you going to, so the goals can be met as a team. Jimmy Lea: That's so true, man. We're either going there together or we're not going. Alejandro Munoz: Definitely. Jimmy Lea: And it takes a lot of individual input to, to make it to that final destination. So Alex, thank you very much brother. I appreciate talking to you. I appreciate the the banter, the back and forth. Alejandro Munoz: Listen, I feel honored for the invitation. Thank you so much. Jimmy Lea: Thank you, brother.

166 - Brad Updegraff on Scaling Dave’s Ultimate Automotive the Smart Way October 30, 2025 - 00:38:17   Show Summary: Brad Updegraff’s journey from a small gas-station lube tech to leading a thriving multi-shop operation in Austin, Texas is packed with lessons for shop owners hungry for growth. In this episode, Brad shares how mentorship, smart partnerships, and a forward-thinking approach to technology helped him expand Dave’s Ultimate Automotive from two stores to seven. He dives into customer programs like the VIP discount tiers, lifetime “Premium Protection” warranty, and his signature half-price oil change promotion that doubles as advertising on the road. Brad also discusses the value of adopting digital systems, tracking KPIs, and investing in business coaching to break the $1 million barrier. His focus on training, apprenticeships, and gamified learning builds a culture that keeps his people engaged and his customers loyal. Looking ahead, Brad talks expansion, leadership succession, and his ultimate goal to strengthen trade education and solve the technician shortage for the next generation.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Brad Updegraff, Owner of Dave’s Ultimate Automotive   Show Highlights: [00:00:27] - Brad credits founder Dave and early internet marketing as the spark that drew him from a small gas-station shop into a growth path with real upside. [00:04:31] - From hands-on beginnings to master certification, Brad explains why learning the tech’s language made him a better advisor and leader. [00:06:26] - The buyout story: strong years opened the door to acquire and then expand the Dave’s brand, culminating in seven locations. [00:07:28] - Gold-certified NAPA Auto Care status becomes a competitive edge with stronger warranty coverage and brand trust. [00:08:13] - “Premium Protection” lifetime warranty and a clear VIP tier system drive retention by rewarding long-term customers. [00:11:27] - The half-price oil change sticker program turns customers’ cars into billboards and reliably brings new faces through the door. [00:14:32] - Breaking the $1M ceiling starts with tech adoption: DVIs, modern communication, easy payments, and financing. [00:17:48] - Coaching and KPI discipline matter; reading P&Ls and managing to benchmarks changed how the business operates. [00:24:03] - Multi-layered marketing plus visible community giving builds brand equity that reviews alone cannot. [00:26:29] - Apprenticeships with local schools and an internal “professor” tech at each store grow the talent pipeline while shaping culture.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. My name is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is one who is on a fast track for super growth. I'm so excited to have Brad here on this conversation as we are gonna talk to him about Dave's Ultimate Automotive. Jimmy Lea: Brad, thank you for being here. Good morning. Brad Updegraff: Thank you. That was quite an intro. I appreciate that, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: You are on a fast path. So Dave's Automotive, Dave's Ultimate, who's Dave? Brad Updegraff: So Dave is actually the original founder of the company. Certainly somebody I considered a mentor as I learned in this business for sure. Brad Updegraff: Nice. And how long have you known Dave? So I met Dave in 2009, became an employee of his in 2010. Jimmy Lea: Wow. And that was some rough times in the world. We were recovering from a real estate boom bust. Brad Updegraff: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Yikes. Yeah. Brad Updegraff: Thankfully the Austin market was somewhat insulated from a lot of what we were hearing nationally at that time, just because of the tech boom we were actually experiencing at the time. Brad Updegraff: But you know, certainly felt that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and I think for the most part, the state of Texas. Was protected. State of Texas did a lot of really good things to insulate from that real estate. Boom. I was in mortgages back in the day, so when I hit oh 8, 0 9, 0 10, I was, oh boy. I was done. Wow. I had to figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Gotcha. Wow. Back to the drawing boards, that's tough. Yeah. Yeah. So you came on with Dave in oh nine. Jimmy Lea: Was it a single location? What did that look like? Brad Updegraff: He owned a South Austin location and this current one I'm in, which is the North Austin location. At the time I came to work at the North Austin location as a service advisor. Brad Updegraff: I had actually sought out. Dave just basically through what I had heard about his reputation in the industry. He was one of the first to get into internet advertising for the automotive space, and that was super attractive to me. I was in this little gas station repair shop with a, you know, very clear ceiling for what that looked like, and knew I needed better and knew I had a lot more to give to this industry. Brad Updegraff: And so, Dave looked like the opportunity that I wanted to be in. Jimmy Lea: Okay, wind it back a little bit further. You're at a gas station a little bit further. How did you get started in automotive? How'd you start the 10 30 weight? Brad Updegraff: So, that actually started in high school. I was actually, I took the automotive program the senior year we did the the practicum experience out of the dealership. Brad Updegraff: And that actually was almost a huge turnoff. I wound up going into that. First week and I guess annoying the lead technician I was under long enough that they stuck me up in their tower at Acura watching training videos the rest of the time. So I got an A, but I don't feel like I learned anything, you know? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. If you don't have that hands-on, you learn theory and theory only takes you so far. You've gotta have that practical hands-on. I, yeah. Imagine Brad Updegraff: being 18, trying to learn theory too, you know, it was just more of like a Jimmy Lea: waste. You know? No. And you've already got a DHD and you can't pay attention and you want me to watch a video? Jimmy Lea: I don't think so. Absolutely. So senior year, you graduate. Then what? Brad Updegraff: So I actually went to college for a non-automotive program. I was thinking law enforcement at the time. Oh. And was coming back to Austin for you know, basically just part-time work to you know, keep myself, you know, employed and you know, have some money in my pocket. Brad Updegraff: And the natural fit was an automotive garage. And so I started as a general service lube tech and a state inspector pushing brooms and doing it from the ground level and learning my way through the industry, which, it quickly, I fell in love here in Austin and realized that college was gonna keep me away from her. Brad Updegraff: And so it that was a career choice to just jump into the automotive space full time. And that really just kind of took off from there. I started trying to learn as a technician but then realized really quickly that my skillset was. Customers and people. And so I transitioned into a service advisor as an opening, came into that little gas station shop and had a great owner that was another great mentor of mine that taught me a lot about what I didn't know in, in customer management shop management and. Brad Updegraff: I had an amazing time with him, but I still trained as a technician at the time, mainly 'cause I wanted to be able to speak the lingo. And so I actually wound up getting master certified actually after I joined Dave's, but I was on my way by that point. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations. So the same gas station, the summer job became the full-time gig. Jimmy Lea: And now you're up in the front. So how long did you stay there before you sought out Dave's? Brad Updegraff: So 2010 is actually when I moved over to Dave's. I started making that that. Goal for a shift in 2009. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. And so what does the journey look like with Dave's? And you start there in 10 as a service advisor at one location and. Jimmy Lea: How does the conversation go that you start talking about, Hey I'd like to buy you out, Brad Updegraff: Dave. Well, it actually kind of happened organically, but in the initial conversation when I'm recruiting him for my next boss I told him that I had a goal of being, being I love that Jimmy Lea: you interviewed him just as much as he interviewed you. Brad Updegraff: Yeah, it was definitely that kind of interview for sure. I love it. And, I actually had told him right then that I had a goal of owning a third location. Should he decide to open it, I would like to, you know, have an opportunity to get into that with him. Didn't know how, or, you know, how that was gonna play out. Brad Updegraff: But what wound up happening is we had such a great year in 2010 and 2011 that, dave had been able to step away from the co the company and really focus on what he I guess he found his new passion, which was coaching you know, and shop development. He was working with a TI at the time and decided to try to take that on as more of a a career path, and decided to put this particular location up for sale while he still owned the south one. Brad Updegraff: My somebody who wound up becoming my business partner in this situation was basically the main financing side of my opportunity. But I had all the industry experience he needed and so we paired up and took off and we were able to expand that Dave's brand quite quickly. So. Jimmy Lea: Wow. And did you buy the south location too? Brad Updegraff: Yeah, that was actually our fourth purchase in the group. So we expanded into a close by city, another close by city in two subsequent years. And then that same year is when we actually bought Dave's fourth location. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Congrats. And now you're up to seven locations? Brad Updegraff: Seven. We actually took on our seventh location this year actually. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I see your seventh location has like 12 Google Brad Updegraff: reviews. It's literally started in July. So we're a building from nowhere side of things, so, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah, I was seeing that. Every location has 600, 6 50, 700, 7 50 Google reviews, and that's solid. I was like, oh, I wonder which one's new. Oh. Jimmy Lea: That one right there. Brad Updegraff: Definitely. Thankfully there's still all five stars, so Jimmy Lea: we're happy. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, that's good. That's good. Congratulations. Oh one suggestion on your website, you do need the new NAPA Auto Care logo. You're right. Yeah. Good catch. And congrats on being the Gold certified. Jimmy Lea: Thank you. Thank you. That's not an easy bar to step over. That is that's a high bar for you guys. Brad Updegraff: It really is. And fortunately it was nice to be the first company to kind of, take that on in the Austin market. Really gave us a, an edge with our competitors to be able to offer a warranty that wasn't available out there. Brad Updegraff: But also the features and benefits that Napa provided to a partnership like that were just accelerated more. And really just opened the door to even more opportunities for me. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. That's awesome. And I'd love to dig into, you've got three different programs that I was super interested in that I saw on your websites. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. One, one is the the protection, premium Protection plan. Yeah. What is that? Brad Updegraff: So Ed is essentially a lifetime warranty that we will provide to our best of the best customers after they've earned, you know, kind of that relationship or we've earned that relationship with them. That, that is basically a service that we provide. Brad Updegraff: And in addition to their normal VIP discount program we for any repair that we do, as long as we're following best practice procedures that, you know, include, you know, things that make sense to do as part of a made. Repair. Then we will honor that warranty for life of the vehicle as long as they are. Brad Updegraff: Oh, Jimmy Lea: wow. Yeah. Yeah. So are you then relying a lot on the, parts manufacturers on their warranties and on BG with their warranties and things like that. Are you're relying a lot on those two as well? Brad Updegraff: Certainly, yeah. So, we do, you know, BG has a program that we've been using for years that is extremely helpful for the customers that are early in their maintenance and that we can start that program early. Brad Updegraff: It, it does, that company provides an extreme level of. Extended protection just from using their products and been very happy with them. But to go back to that question, the parts vendors are a huge part of that. So we buy quality to make sure that we don't have to turn it in regularly, right. Napa Amen is great with helping with that. Brad Updegraff: We use a lot of OEM stuff when it's required, but NAPA is by far the best independent repair, you know, parts company that we use. Jimmy Lea: Napa has a great program and their, the NAPA auto Care program that all the shops that I've ever taken my cars to are Napa because of that nationwide Worry Free. Jimmy Lea: Anywhere I am, I know I can take it to a Napa auto care center. Jimmy Lea: And I know they're gonna take care of me. Brad Updegraff: Fantastic. Yeah. Over 14,000 of 'em across the nation. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. So now also you talked about the VIP program as well. So this is, that's beyond the VIP. So what is the VIP program? Brad Updegraff: Yeah, so VIP is a, basically a way of building customer retention for us. And we reward our customers with discount programs that are. Essentially anytime they come in, they can, you know, earn those. And we have simple qualifiers. They have to hit lifetime spend amounts that qualify them into the next level. Brad Updegraff: And that discounts applied from that point on. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. I think I would be one of your top VIP clients. When I had, I, and I just sold my truck. I had a Ford F-150 and I was about every six to eight weeks getting that 5,000 mile. Full synthetic oil service. And I was always like, gosh, guys, we gotta figure out, there's gotta be a great program somewhere that we could put together. Jimmy Lea: And I think you've nailed it with what you're doing on your VIP. So if anybody's interested and you're like, oh my gosh, I need to know more about what it is that Brad's doing here at Dave's Ultimate Automotive, you need to check it out. His website, he's in Austin, Texas, he's got, it is all laid out on the website, so very Brad Updegraff: detailed, easy to follow for sure. Jimmy Lea: Easy to follow. Yeah, very good. It's the KISS system. Keep it simple. Yeah, Brad Updegraff: I hadn't heard that in a while. That's perfect. Jimmy Lea: That is perfect. So, one of the benefits that I saw too on your website was the half price oil changes. Yes, sir. Talk to me about that. Brad Updegraff: That is my baby. So, I thought during COVID there was obviously a an issue where everybody was very cost concerned with, you know, their, how much they're spending. Brad Updegraff: And we needed to figure out a program that worked for, acknowledging that need and trying to also do what, where our need was, which is gaining customers in that time. So we decided to make our oil change program essentially an advertising piece. So how this works is customers purchase for $10 a small football shaped sticker. Brad Updegraff: I'll use about that. Big says, take it to Dave's on it, as long as they keep that on their vehicle. We give them half price of the oil change. So essentially they're advertising for us that they choose us as their trusted service facility, and in turn we basically do the oil change at half price. Brad Updegraff: That simple. Dude, I love it. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Brad Updegraff: And so what's really cool is having so many locations now and being that this program's several years in the works now I'm pulling up to traffic lights and I'm seeing, you know, one or two of those cars sometimes at a traffic stop. And it's really makes my day to be able to see that kind of membership taken on. Brad Updegraff: And it seems like customers are really seeing the value in that. Jimmy Lea: For sure. I'm scheming here, marketing. I love marketing and I love what you're doing with this sticker. Thank you. And I'm wondering, could we take it a little bit further? Could we take it to be a little bit more with this sticker and what comes to my mind, so riff with me on this. Jimmy Lea: Okay. What if there was a QR code that at a stoplight or in a parking lot, somebody could scan the QR code, select the location they want to go to, and schedule an appointment. Brad Updegraff: That's awesome. You know, we actually have a QR code already. We just don't put it on the sticker. So that would actually be a really cool addition. Jimmy Lea: That might be a good thing. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. I like that. Somebody might be like, what's take it today's about? And that would be a good, easy way to look it up. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Yeah. What is, take it, Dave's, what does that mean? I love what you're doing. Now there's also a danger in doing that. So if any shop is hearing this saying, oh, I'm gonna do the same thing. Jimmy Lea: Whoa. Time out. You better evaluate your business before you start doing this. 'cause there's so many shops that hear this and go, okay, well if Brad's doing it, I'm gonna do it half off your oil service. Just put my sticker on your thing. Okay. But somebody has to pay for that. Jimmy Lea: It's gotta be part of your business plan. Yep. So what do you think are some of those I'm gonna use the word things, but I hate using the word things. What are some of those? Activities marketing plans, pay plans, business plans that shops set up, they tried to implement, and it's what's holding them back from breaking the million dollar ceiling? Jimmy Lea: What holds a shop back, Brad Updegraff: in my opinion, it's really the, kind of the unwillingness to adopt, a lot of the technology that's available to us in our space today. If you think about digital vehicle inspections and how prevalent they are now if you think about really even from the repair order software, the ability to communicate with customers differently than picking up the phone now giving 'em easier pay features, things like that, that are designed to enhance the customer experience. Brad Updegraff: I think when they're not being done and certainly somebody that recognizes that in a competitor or even a different area of their life, you know, they're gonna be attracted to, to looking for that in their service facility big time. Jimmy Lea: Who, and I love it. I love what you're saying there. Jimmy Lea: Because we as an industry all the way back to our roots as blacksmith of the town and the city, we were slow to adopt to technology. I'm glad that you are. What are you using Brad Updegraff: for your DVI? We have used autos serve one from the beginning. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats. And they integrate in with your point of sale system? Brad Updegraff: They do. They do. Jimmy Lea: What are you using for your point of sale? Brad Updegraff: We use NAPA Track. Jimmy Lea: Napa Tracks, phenomenal program. And as a multiple shop operator? Napa Trax is able to track all of your locations. Yep. Brad Updegraff: We actually have they have different enterprise formats you can use. You know, if you'd prefer to have servers in your locations, you can use it in that sense. Brad Updegraff: They have a cloud option as well. That gives you a lot of on demand availability. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. And you also talk about customers being able to pay and pay quickly. Jimmy Lea: What programs are you utilizing for that pay here? Pay quick Pay now. Brad Updegraff: So we actually still use a local merchant because I've just basic had a great relationship with them so long, and I'm, I value a lot of personal relationships in my business. Brad Updegraff: So, we we have that, and then we also have a text to pay feature that we added through that business that I think is, handled through a company called ve, N-U-V-E-I. Okay. Brad Updegraff: But there's several out there. In fact, one of the Napa sponsored ones is 360 payments. Yeah. NAPA Pay is also coming out, which is gonna be just an extremely good option to consider for certain management systems as well. Brad Updegraff: Oh, Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Yeah. I have a Synchrony card. I have a, the Napa Brad Updegraff: Napa Synchrony Jimmy Lea: card. Yeah. Brad Updegraff: Oh yeah, that as well. You bet. Financing is certainly one of those things that, especially in the time that we're dealing with in our industry, that you want to have an alternative for having to pay directly in person like that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, for sure. For sure. It all helps. So technology holding shops back and I agree. If they can adopt technology, I, I think as an industry, they've been burnt. In the past, and so they're slow to see it, but once they see others doing it, then it does trickle in more people are doing it. So I would say dvs are more prevalent today than they were 15 years ago, or even 10 years ago, or even five years ago. Jimmy Lea: I think. Absolutely. If you're in a shop today, you're doing a DVI, it just depends on which DVI are you doing. Yeah, definitely. All right. What else besides Brad Updegraff: technology? Well, I think if you think of the way that most shop owners become, shop owners in general, they're technicians first, you know? Brad Updegraff: Yeah. At least that's what I've found in just through our networking and a lot of cases, those technicians don't have a business acumen that helps them with knowing how to manage their p and ls properly and how to structure and, you know, budget for things that they wanna be able to do. Brad Updegraff: I would not have had that information myself if we didn't have a management success style company that was, that we partnered with to learn those things. And certainly it goes a lot past reading a p and l correctly. And that's really where a lot of the value is helping shops understand what. Brad Updegraff: Key point indicators are important for for their business success. They are able to give you industry standards to use as a benchmark. Things like that, that are really extremely helpful though for somebody that doesn't have that experience to really gain and understand it in its full picture. Jimmy Lea: Oh I totally agree with you. Who was your coach? Who was your trainer that guided you through that business acumen? Brad Updegraff: So, we used a TI way back in the day and Jeff Berman was my particular coach at the time. Jimmy Lea: I love Jeff. Yeah, Jeff is the man. Oh, Brad Updegraff: he's great. Yeah. That's phenomenal. Are you still with a TI? Brad Updegraff: No. We actually left the program a few years ago. There was a point where we realized that it wasn't for us anymore. They add a lot of value to a company that doesn't have you know, that foundation to them. But then at. At one point you know, at that point the coaching changes, you know, because you're just not in that same growth plan and need. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. And so the maintenance side of it just seemed a little redundant for us, and we felt like, you know, we could probably take it from here. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. We got this now. Yeah. At the institute we have a program for mergers and acquisitions. We call it the high Performance Group. So to be in that group, you have to be an MSO. Jimmy Lea: Multiple shop operator. Makes sense. And Michael Smith is in charge of the program. He's the one that pulls these shops together. Have you heard about Straightaway Auto? I have not. Brian Bates. So he got these shops together and they decided, hey, we're gonna do this. We're going to represent, we'll have, there were five owners at the time, they represented about 42 rooftops, and they took that and interviewed different private equity groups. Jimmy Lea: To find the private equity that would fund it the way they wanted it. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Not the private equity that says, Hey, we're gonna buy you out, and I'm gonna show you how this is done. I've got my MBA, I'm gonna show you how it's done. Yeah. Yeah. No we've seen that before. It doesn't work. You don't know this industry. Brad Updegraff: Exactly. As soon as you mentioned Brian Bates, that whole story kept came back. It came back. Yeah. It's, it was quite remarkable how they pulled that off. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. He did. And they did, and they are, I think they're approaching 75 locations now, so here in another 25 locations, they'll look at bundling it again and selling it again. Jimmy Lea: To a next level private equity. Yeah. So at certain levels of private equity, they pay six times ebitda, seven times ebitda. Now you're up to an eight or nine times ebitda and now you're at a 12 to 15 times ebitda. And once you have a package or a bundle, that is significant and this is what's happening in our industry. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. I'm glad you got on that. Private equity is coming and bundling it up. You know, it's funny. So. There's a lot of shops you know, store owners that I know that seem to be very concerned about that buyout. Some of 'em are actually just waiting for the phone call themselves. But the ones that are planning on sticking in, it's kind of a mixed bag. You know, you have some that are concerned 'cause they don't understand what that's gonna mean to them and you know, if they're gonna have to align with certain pricing just to stay competitive, blah blah, blah, blah. But I have some that look like me, that look at that as a complete opportunity. Brad Updegraff: The minute a shop goes corporate and it's felt by the employees and the customers, you lose both. Yeah. So that's an opportunity for us to gain so. Jimmy Lea: And I love that. I love that you mentioned that. That's what Brian has done and the straightaway has done in their entire company and their culture is to keep the local family run business culture. Brad Updegraff: That's awesome. Jimmy Lea: That's important. That's so important. Yeah. The PE that they partnered with said, okay, we bought you and da, but you're still on, you're still with us, and we want you to continue to run your business. If you need any equipment. There's a blank check for that equipment. You just order it. Jimmy Lea: You do it. Yeah. We know, you know this business and this is what we wanna do. This is our plan, this is our growth plan. Get us to that point. So now as these guys are going out looking at shops, they're evaluating, they don't have to spend their own money on it. They're spending the private equity money to buy the shop, so they're growing exponentially. Jimmy Lea: It's just so much fun. Wow. It's so fascinating because not only were they able to sell the shop once. They're gonna sell it again and again. And again, and this is becomes generational wealth for these shop owners that they are going to be able to stay in the game. And at some point they may decide, Hey, you know what? Jimmy Lea: Deuces I'm out, me and the wife, my ties on the beach. Brad Updegraff: Exactly. Yeah. Isn't that everybody's goal? Jimmy Lea: And when they do. God bless you. Exactly. Let's flip that. Okay. I'm not gonna leave, but eventually I do pass and in my will, I will it to my children. The children are now partnered with the PE generational wealth. Jimmy Lea: It keeps growing and growing. Back to the original question, what is holding a shop back from breaking that $1 million per year annual sales. Jimmy Lea: Adoption of technology. We got adoption of technology. Brad Updegraff: I think actually, you know, being able to get the customers in the door is an evolving challenge. Okay. Internet advertising is obviously key for new customer acquisition. Everybody's using Google or something connected to Google to learn about a potential shop that they want to use. Brad Updegraff: So it's important to have your space on there but you need to have a multi-layered approach to that, you know. People care that they're doing business with a company that cares about the community. Yep. So making sure that you have a strong community involvement, whether that's supporting local schools combination of that, maybe doing some community outreach if you have people that are willing to donate some energy outside of work. Brad Updegraff: Things that, can help build that portfolio of your shop as far as the reputation that it has outside of just five star reviews is really big. And I think that unfortunately a lot of companies don't really invest the time and energy or money into those areas. Because it doesn't always give you an obvious ROI, you know, that's something the brand building that you do with that has a long run effect, you know? Jimmy Lea: It does. I had an interesting conversation with Jeffrey, last name. Come on. Rudnick Pit Crew Loyalty. They run a pit crew loyalty program. And so you talk about community, his involvement is involving the community businesses. So you have an app for your shop and these businesses become part of your program where if somebody's coming to your shop and they earn points. Jimmy Lea: They can donate those points to the local animal shelter. And once a year you show up to the animal shelter with a check for a thousand bucks. Wow. And you invite all hundred people, 200 people that made this possible. They're giving back to the community. Now you're supporting the next phase, the next level. Brad Updegraff: I'm gonna write that down when we get off this call. That's a really good idea. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jeffrey Rudnick pit Crew loyalty. In fact, I will send you his information and we should put that in the show notes because anybody that wants to check it out should check it out. It's pretty dang cool. Brad Updegraff: That's a great idea. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's fun. It's fun, Brad Updegraff: you know, so, kind of adding to that, we yeah. Going back into the school system. So one of the things that we felt was extremely important for the future and development of our industry as a whole was making sure that we had a good way of creating better interest for the young generation that we want into our industry that doesn't have as much of a, a. Brad Updegraff: I guess an interest in it at this point and being able to provide a way of training through that. So, we partnered with a local school system and we actually serve as their senior apprentice shop that we work with right now. So what's been awesome with that is, you know, we wind up with more students than necessarily we can handle in our shop. Brad Updegraff: You know, so somewhat overstaffed, you know, taking on a little bit of extra cost doing that. But we get to train people for our industry that might not even necessarily start out with us when they get into the career field, but hopefully they come back 'cause they really enjoy the environment. Brad Updegraff: You know, Jimmy Lea: and that's what they'll find out. They don't know what they don't know. They think every shop is run just exactly like yours is because that's the first shop they go to. Yeah. And then down the road they're gonna go to a different shop, a different location, different gas station, different dealership, different shop culture, company culture. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And hopefully they realize and they come back to you because like, Tim Kerian in California, he had a technician that moved away and when he came back he says, I don't care where you put me. I want to be here. He just wants to be there. Yep. I want this is home for me, so figure it out. Jimmy Lea: So not only is he one of his best technicians, he's also the instructor for the Apprentice. That's awesome. They built him a lean to tent out in the back of the shop because all the bays were full. The bay he didn't have a bay for him. Brad Updegraff: Okay. Jimmy Lea: But he built him a bay, put a lift in it, and because it was a temporary structure that he got around a lot of city stuff. Jimmy Lea: But the dude has to work outside Pasadena, California. Ah, you're fine. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. I could deal with that every day. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, tim, phenomenal job at creating culture. And it sounds like, Brad, it sounds like you are doing the exact same thing with your company culture. Brad Updegraff: Definitely. It's important to have two different mindsets in our company. Brad Updegraff: We need to be have a hospitality culture for our customers and a training culture for our team. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Talking about, and I almost felt you say technicians, training for your technicians, do you also train the whole team advisors, managers, leadership? Yeah, definitely. Nice. Nice. Where do you go? What do you do? Jimmy Lea: Is it all in-house or, Brad Updegraff: Yeah, it's actually, it's things we've learned through a TI, you know, through the years. It's a bit of a playbook and we've certainly have our own way of doing business that we certainly, follow a protocol and process for, I guess is a good way to put it. But we're accountable. Brad Updegraff: You know, we review their phone calls. You know, we help them in their areas that they need to improve. If there's particular service development areas that they can you know, learn more in a particular class, we would pay for that, but another extra. Just daily training thing is, we're actually part of today's class. Brad Updegraff: I don't know if you've heard much about that program, but it's in a fantastic way to keep consistent training in your program. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Yeah. Are you in the gamification? Do your seven locations compete against each other? Do you have a top tech? Brad Updegraff: They do, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's awesome. Jimmy Lea: That's a fun name. Are you meeting on it too? Brad Updegraff: Oh yeah. In fact, we have an admin team that competes against the shops. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Brad Updegraff: Yeah. That Jimmy Lea: is so cool. So they, we, we met with today's class here a minute ago. Probably sometime during the summer and the executive team is. Answering all those questions. Jimmy Lea: So, Cecil, Kent, and Wayne, they're all competing amongst the three or four of them there in the office headquarters in Ogden. Yeah. And it's interesting to see that Wayne is answering the questions right? And he has no, well, okay. No, he has a pretty dang good garage and he has like five or six BMWs that he works on. Jimmy Lea: But he's not a. Master technician. Brad Updegraff: Sure. Kinda more specialized in that area then. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's, Brad Updegraff: I mean, that's awesome. I honestly thought I would answer more questions. Right. I get, oh, it's a good mix of technician and service questions that are peppered into my particular profile. Brad Updegraff: And. I'll tell you if I'm trying to just, you know, get through it for the day and fast track my answers I miss a lot, you know? Yeah. It definitely takes some thinking. But I really I can't say enough about that program and what it means. You know? The other great thing about it, you know, for you talk about culture. Brad Updegraff: So monthly we actually do prize raffles. So as they're answering questions, they're building points in the yes. In their game, and they're able to use those raffles or those particular points for either raffles or auctions that we host. And so, you know, we're using our vendors to give away products. Brad Updegraff: We have certain things that we give away just in the store as well. Like PTO day or something like that, just to be kind of cool and give 'em, you know, something. Or, you know, one of the fun ones we get to do with the few of 'em, my employees is a day of golf with me. You know, just dude. Yeah. You know, just to kind of keep it different, you know, Jimmy Lea: do a date night basket. Brad Updegraff: Ooh. Jimmy Lea: Dinner, gift cards, movie tickets. You know, here's a fancy box of chocolates. Date in a basket or date night in a basket. That's a great idea. Oh yeah, that, that'd be rad. I. Gotta love that. Absolutely. Cool. So Dave, what? Dave? Brad, Brad Updegraff: I get that daily, don't worry. I'm sure you do. Yeah, I'm calling for Dave. Brad Updegraff: Good being Brad. When the name on the building's, Dave, by the way. Yeah. There's a nice little ninja effect to that. Jimmy Lea: Oh, there is. And you know what, I've been to so many Dave's automotives across the country and it's never owned by a Dave. That's funny. It's owned by somebody else. Yeah. So, what does the future look like for you, Brad? Jimmy Lea: You're currently at seven locations. Now what does success look like? Brad Updegraff: So, we certainly haven't stopped our growth plans. But we now have the ability to be quite strategic with our next footprint steps. You know, now that we have a really good coverage of the Austin and kind of surrounding area map, we intend to go north. Brad Updegraff: And there's areas, you know, between us and Waco that kind of makes sense to expand into. There's areas out east of us that are becoming more populous centers since Samsung's moving in and places like that. So, Bastrop, Elgin, you know, some little neighboring towns that, you know, seem like they would be good potential fits for our next move. Brad Updegraff: But I'm also very specific about. What type of shop we're gonna get into. Sure. Size wise, you know, it needs to be 10 bays or more. 10. 10. Yes. That's Jimmy Lea: a big shop, bro. Okay. It's 10 bays. Yeah, because that fits your footprint, that's your business model. You know how to effectively. Produce a 10 base shop. Brad Updegraff: Yeah, I would even say eight is a potential. Since state inspections have kind of gone away in this last year from the state of Texas it's less base space needed for that. So I think I could do the same type of business model in an eight based shop. Okay. And you know, certainly we have one in the company right now that's quite successful from a profitability standpoint. Brad Updegraff: So there's definitely something to the manpower involved with an eight bay, eight bay versus 10 base. Jimmy Lea: So when you've got an eight bay or a 10 bay shop, how many technicians do you have operating Brad Updegraff: out of there? So, I'll use the example I'm in for a 10 bay shop. I try to structure four. Diagnostic skill level technicians and three general service technicians at some varying skill level that can do, you know, we call 'em GS pluses when they're kind of advancing to that level where they could become flag technicians. But we you know, also kind of can do ground level startups as well. Brad Updegraff: You know, somebody that's just trying to learn and become an apprentice in the industry has a space in our environment to try to work underneath the team that, you know, can help them grow and accelerate as well. So we do have a range of that technician. General service technician structure that we try to keep in every shop. Jimmy Lea: So you've got the general service, these are your C minus technicians. And an apprentice that's a C minus. They're coming up in the industry. And these four, are they the instructors, are they the oversight? Are they the quality control for your general service technicians? Jimmy Lea: Is that what you do? Brad Updegraff: We actually try to keep one particular technician equipped in each shop with that role. Okay. Instead of utilizing all of them. Jimmy Lea: So one, one tech in each shop is the professor. Yes. Okay. Very cool. Oh, I love that. So if there's anybody in the Austin area or are you're, it sounds like you're also expanding out from that going up to Waco and out towards what's east? Brad Updegraff: East would be heading towards Houston. You know, there's Houston, a little neighboring cities in the, Jimmy Lea: anybody with a six bay or a 10 bay shop? Brad Updegraff: Holler. Give Brad a Jimmy Lea: call. Brad Updegraff: Definitely give him Jimmy Lea: a Hollerer. Brad Updegraff: Yeah, [email protected]. That's direct email, so Jimmy Lea: Oh, perfect. That'd be good. Brad Updegraff: So that's the future. At what point do you say, okay, we're good. Brad Updegraff: So I actually put a date on that for myself when I turned 55. So I've got nine years left now. Jimmy Lea: Nine years to 55. Yeah, dude. Congrats. Thank you. So at 55 that becomes the opportunity to cash out. Do you still have a business partner or is it all you? It's all me now. Oh, congrats bro. Thank you. Thank you. Jimmy Lea: So by 55, how many shops you want? 55 shops, Brad Updegraff: you know, I don't know that answer to be honest. Okay. It's more of a, more about, I don't wanna be putting words Jimmy Lea: in your mouth, I don't want you to knee jerk reaction this, but it's something to think about. When you do hit 55, what's the goal? Jimmy Lea: If it's just 55, you know you're gonna get there. Brad Updegraff: Sure. I think we've already grown to the size of a company where it's gonna take a strategic buyer for for a purchase for us. Brad Updegraff: You know, and so there's already that kind of, that mindset of what that looks like down the road. Brad Updegraff: I Jimmy Lea: gotta plan for you, brother. We need to talk. Okay, cool. Alright, congratulations. Well, if you were to have a magic wand and you had one wish, you can't wish for more wishes. What would you change in the industry? Brad Updegraff: Just one wish. One wish? Yep. Brad Updegraff: Ooh. I think the biggest one for me is. That there isn't a pre, that there was already a program built centered around the trade industry better than it is today that is focused more on automotive than it is. If you see, you know, electrical companies, plumbing trades those have had very thorough programs for the longest time. Brad Updegraff: And it seems like the automotive space is just slow to catch up to that. And I think it's created the problem we have of a technician shortage right now. So if I could wave my widget magic wand, I would do away with the technician shortage and have a better building program. Jimmy Lea: I love it better education for those coming into the industry. Jimmy Lea: Better education for those that want to become part of the program. And I think what you've also dialed that in on your shops, you know that you've got a professor that's gonna guide the GS down the path. So you've got that outlined. We need that on a larger scale. Right. Brad. I love it. I love it. Jimmy Lea: Brother, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Appreciate you showing up for us. I've enjoyed it, Jimmy. Thanks for having me. Alright. Thank you brother. All right. We'll talk soon.

165 - Cruise Control to Cash Flow: The Mobile Auto Repair Journey with Clinton Coffman October 30, 2025 - 00:36:10   Show Summary: Starting a mobile shop in December took grit, but Clinton Coffman shows how discipline on costs and smart marketing can outpace top-line growth. He walks through lessons from dealerships to Firestone to launching Cruise Control Convenient Car Care. Clinton breaks down why Local Services Ads beat DIY PPC for his model, why he prices a firm onsite minimum, and how he schedules 1–3 cars per day to protect quality. We dig into parts sourcing without delivery, the limits of driveway repairs, and the debate between staying mobile or moving to a small brick and mortar. Clinton shares a possible pivot toward a “basic services” lane that’s easier to staff and scale. The episode closes on family, legacy, and building a business his kids could choose to join.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Clinton Coffman, Owner of Cruise Control Convenient Car Care   Show Highlights: [00:03:15] - Clinton’s path from WyoTech to dealerships and Firestone, and the spark that pushed him toward mobile repair. [00:06:11] - Launching in December on purpose: “If I can survive the slowest month, I can thrive in the good ones.” [00:07:42] - First two weeks hit about $7K; 2024 averages to ~$180K while learning what expenses to cut. [00:09:29] - Lower sales, higher take-home: $16.5K less sold but $8.5K more net by trimming subscriptions and spend. [00:10:24] - Marketing that works: monthly CRM text blasts and Google Local Services Ads with pay-per-lead economics. [00:12:16] - ROAS reality: some weeks are heavy diagnostics with low conversion; overall GP-based returns trend near 5:1. [00:16:41] - The mobile squeeze: scheduling is hard when each driveway job ties you up until it’s done. [00:19:56] - Parts without delivery: juggling WORLDPAC, Parts Authority, and O’Reilly means more drive time and will-calls. [00:23:39] - The non-negotiable trip minimum: why $140 to show up protects time and mirrors trades like HVAC and plumbing. [00:24:47] - What’s next: weighing a small shop, or pivoting mobile to a high-throughput lane of brakes, oil, filters, and wipers. [00:33:25] - Success defined: provide for family, build something durable his kids can choose to join.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, my name is Jimmy Lea, and this is the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. You are listening to the Leading Edge podcast, my friend. It is so good to be with you today. So glad you're able to join and listen to this conversation that Clint and I are gonna have about his mobile business. Jimmy Lea: Clint Coffman is the owner of Cruise Control. Cruise control. Hold on, I'll get it. Cruise Control Convenient Car Care out of Tacoma, Washington, Clinton, thank you for being here brother. How are you? Clinton Coffman: I'm doing great. How are you? Jimmy Lea: You know, that was a mouthful. I tried five times before I got it, but the, there it is. There's, that is a mouthful. And you've got all the C's in the name Clinton Coffman, Cruise Control Convenient Car Care, all the C's. Yeah. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. It, hindsight is 2020. Right. But I'm kind of stuck with the name now 'cause that's what people know. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The alliteration in your family must be epic. Clinton Coffman: Yes. We have four generations of firstborn sons with the letters C in their first name. Jimmy Lea: So are you the third or the fourth? Clinton Coffman: I'm the third. Jimmy Lea: I am also the third. We are James Lee. James Arthur James. Bruce, James Christian. My son is James, Derek, A, B, c, D. That's crazy. Did you guys do different middle names or is it exactly the same for James? So it's, Clinton Coffman: it's different first names, but they all start with the letter C. So it was Charles was my grandfather. Clinton Coffman: My dad's Chris. I'm Clinton, my son is Colin. Of course it is. Yeah. So you didn't have any option but to go with another C. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. No, and my son, his name was picked back in college when I was in college. When I was in high school. I knew he was gonna be a James D. James d something. Yeah. So are all of your children starting with the letter C? Clinton Coffman: No, it's just the firstborn son. Just Jimmy Lea: the firstborn. Clinton Coffman: Okay. Jimmy Lea: Firstborn son. First born son. Oh, is your, do you have an older, oldest daughter? I've got two Clinton Coffman: daughters who are older. Jimmy Lea: Me too. Did you see this here? These are my, I did see that. These are my, that's my oldest daughter and second oldest, and that's my son. Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice. Yes. So here's my connection to Tacoma, Washington, and I have a picture. This is an awesome picture. I think this embodies Tacoma, Washington ginormous. Imagine with me a ginormous. Pickup truck. Big, huge mud wheels. It's an older Chevy truck, maybe it's a Ford truck. And on the back tailgate is a bumper sticker that says I identify as a Prius Clinton Coffman: that could be construed as Tacoma. Jimmy Lea: I think what he was wanting was those those parking spaces that are right up front, say for the compact cars. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so funny. Hey, so Clinton, how in, how did you get into the crazy automotive aftermarket world? Clinton Coffman: So, I've been in auto tech my entire adult life. Okay. 20 years old. I went out to Wyoming Technical Institute. Clinton Coffman: Spent a year out there. Worked in dealerships for a long period of time in Wyoming. No I moved back here once I was so you moved back to Washington outta school? Yeah. Outta school in the Tacoma area, you know, eventually remember cash for clunkers. Oh yeah, cash for Jimmy Lea: Clunkers. That just about killed us. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. And I was like in between Lube tech and like a B Tech at the time. Jimmy Lea: Okay, so you were a solid C plus is what I'm hearing. Yeah, Clinton Coffman: yeah. And you kind of get pigeonholed. Jimmy Lea: You Clinton Coffman: do. You know, I was really good at. Doing inspections, right? So I could get on the Lu Rack and I could sell stuff. Oh. So they moved me back to the Lu Rack 'cause I was making them more money than the Lu Tech and they laid them off. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Then after a year and all the jobs are going through a tech not learning anything. No, of course not. So eventually I ended up leaving the Honda dealership I was at because I was like, dude. How am I getting any better at what I want to do? Yeah. This is a further in your career. I understand your need for what I need to do's do for you's, but like you wouldn't even send me back to school. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Clinton Coffman: So, I ended up going to a used car dealership, one of the biggest in the state. It was actually right next door. So I took my little tool cart and I literally pushed it up the hill to the next dealership. That's hilarious. That's awesome. And I spent about four years there. Then ended up going to Firestone. Clinton Coffman: Oh, nice. Okay. So I spent five, six years of Firestone and then eventually I heard about this new company that was doing mobile repair. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. I've always kind of wanted to be my own boss. I mean, I wrote my first business plan when I was about 11 years old. So, nice. Yeah. I never actually pulled the trigger. Clinton Coffman: 'cause you know, it's scary. Well, you're 11. Well yeah, but even at, I had kids young, so like going out on my own. The risk versus reward. Yeah. Kinda became like a fear factor. Sure. I spent about another four years there, kind of learned how mobile should and shouldn't work. Okay. And then I was like, you know what, like you only live once Yolo. Clinton Coffman: If I've been wanting to do something like this my whole life and haven't figured out what it is, but I know how to fix cars, why not just do it? So, and. That was about two years ago now, and it's been a journey to say the least. Jimmy Lea: So, so you struck out on your own, towards the end of COVID shutting down, people are returning to normal. Jimmy Lea: They're still a little scared, but they're returning to normal and you strike out with a mobile business? Jimmy Lea: Wow. Clinton Coffman: Wow. In December. The slowest time of year. I figured if I could make it, then I could make it in the good months. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I saw the the, your kids' announcement on Facebook got a big announcement. Jimmy Lea: We're so excited. Oh, bless your kids. That was fun. That's awesome. They did that for you. So you struck out in December. Is this December of 23? Clinton Coffman: 2023, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Oh my gosh, man. Okay, so you strike out on your own. What is it you close your first month, your second month? What does that look like for you as a solopreneur? Jimmy Lea: So, first month Clinton Coffman: I ended up getting really lucky. Okay. The first phone call I got, I ended up selling $2,500 worth of work. Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Love that. So, Clinton Coffman: It was a short month because I started like the week before Christmas, so I only had like two weeks that month. I ended up doing about seven K, Jimmy Lea: seven K in two months. Jimmy Lea: Righteous. Yeah. That's pretty dang good, man. Congrats. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And then January, do you remember what January looked like? January 24? I don't remember Clinton Coffman: exactly off the top of my head. Jimmy Lea: Ish. Ish. You can have a big ish on that. It was probably Clinton Coffman: like eight to nine. Okay. Okay. Probably eight to nine. And it grew to closer to about 1516 KA month in total sales. Clinton Coffman: Nice. Over the, over 2024. That's about what I averaged at about 180 k in sales. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats. Clinton Coffman: Solid. Then once I looked at my p and ls at the end of the year and I was like, man, I've got a lot of expenses. I want the nice things, right? So I was paying for the marketing companies. I was paying for top of the line, all the bells and whistles, CRMs, and. Clinton Coffman: I was like, man there's gotta be a different way. There's a lot I'm leaving out before it gets to my wallet. Yeah. Yeah. So I started, what can I cut? What can I cut? I have actually done, what was it? I got it here. Clinton Coffman: I've got a 39% increase this year already in net, in sales, net revenue. Oh. In net revenue and net revenue 2%. De I've actually, where is it? Sorry, I got my notes here. Jimmy Lea: No, you're good. So you, I have sold Uhhuh Clinton Coffman: $16,500 less in sales, but I have made $8,500 more into my pocket. Jimmy Lea: Dude, congratulations. Jimmy Lea: Controlling those expenses. That's how to do it. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. You know, your first year you just, I was like, I'm just gonna throw everything at the wall, see what sticks. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The mistake of many a business that does it, and most of them aren't where you are, most of them fail. Most of them have to close the door. Jimmy Lea: 'cause they tried to stick too much and nothing stuck. So Yeah. They're out. Yeah. It's, so if you can reduce your expenses by $500 a month, five times 12, six grand a year, that goes right to the bottom line. That goes to your net profit. Absolutely. Oh, congratulations. So, so for marketing, what are you doing now as a mobile tech? Clinton Coffman: So right now I've got a CRM, so I send a blast text message out once a month. Nice. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Clinton Coffman: Sometimes twice a month. It depends on how busy I am. Sure. And I do local service ads on Google Jimmy Lea: local service ads. Okay. Clinton Coffman: And it, local service ads has been a godsend for me. Good. Congrats. Because you, you pay per qualified lead, not per click. Clinton Coffman: No. You know, because I spent a lot of time in the evenings learning Google ads. Yes. You know, it's like how do I do this so I don't have to pay somebody a thousand, $1,400 a month Yep. On top of my ad spend. Correct. Right. So, I mean, I even took a month long class. Wow. I paid for and Jimmy Lea: to study Google ads, looking at local Clinton Coffman: service ads, and there's nobody else secret. Clinton Coffman: Nobody else in my area, Jimmy Lea: knock on wood. Clinton Coffman: Yep. Runs local service ads for auto repair. Jimmy Lea: So what's and congrats on figuring that out and doing it. Most Google ads, you might be anywhere from a dollar to $5. To $8 per click and a a local service ad. What are you spending per click? Per, sorry. Jimmy Lea: Per qualified lead. Clinton Coffman: Per qualified lead. It's about, that's hard to say. 'cause they don't give you as much information. Yeah. Right. So I spend anywhere between 250 and $400 a week, depending on how I'm already doing. Yep. My return on ad spend is about three to one. Congrats. Nice. So, some months it's better. Clinton Coffman: Yes. Some months it's worse, you know? Yep. Sometimes you go out there four or five times a week to do a diag for a no start, and it's like, oh, you have a blown head gasket. Oh, you have $9,000 worth of work to do on your 2006 Corolla. And they're like, I can't spend that kind of money on it. And so. Clinton Coffman: That's where it gets real tricky with mobile repair. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Because you're, Clinton Coffman: you're limited on what you can do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. For sure. For sure. Alright, so, a three to one is good, however, your goal needs to be six to one. Yes. Okay. I totally agree. So you already know that. Totally Clinton Coffman: agree with that. Yeah. At five. Jimmy Lea: Five to one, you're covering your expenses, your labor, your parts, your da. If you factor it all in at six to one, now you're on the gravy side, so yeah. Yeah. Six to one. Love it. I love it that you already know that. Clinton Coffman: Is that. Total sales are gross profit. Jimmy Lea: Just on total. Ooh. Are you doing gross profit three to one? Clinton Coffman: I base everything off of gross profit. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. So, okay, so if you were to convert that for me, if you would, if you don't mind. So if total sales to clicks, Clinton Coffman: let's see, I, so I've got a 60 to 65% parts margin. So I don't know the math. That's beautiful to, to convert that. Nope, you're doing good. Clinton Coffman: Probably closer to five to one. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I think you are. If you are let's do public math. Always dangerous. Yeah. So on a monthly, if you're doing 10 to 15,000, let's call it 15, 16, can I call it 16? So it's four grand a week? Yeah. Yeah. You could call it that. Four. Four grand a week and a $400 local ad spend. Jimmy Lea: That's a 10 to one. Yeah. Yeah. Solid. And if you get it down into the $200 ad spend and you're at four grand, that's a lot more. Yeah. I'm not doing that public math. Not right now, dude. Congrats bro. So, and I applaud you for doing it off the gross profit because that gross, that's the Clinton Coffman: number that really matters. Clinton Coffman: Parts are expensive. Jimmy Lea: Well, and gross profit, yes. But to your point before, even more important than gross profit is net profit. Yes. How much is in your pocket? At the end of the day, you have had to control your expenses. So important. You control your expenses. Now you control what comes into your pocket. Jimmy Lea: Most businesses, most sales companies, will applaud those who sell the most. When in actuality they really should turn around and say, okay, but how much did you keep? Exactly. How much did you keep? Exactly. And that interestingly at the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, we're a coaching training company. Jimmy Lea: You're aware of that? We have an awards ceremony, an awards program. We have the $100,000 net profit club. The 200,000 net profit, the 300,000 net profit, 400, 500, 700, I think there's a seven 50. And we have one shop that's doing a million dollars net profit. Clinton Coffman: Shut up. That's amazing. That's gotta be a big shop. Jimmy Lea: He has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 bays in one building and four bays in another building. Yeah. He's up in Denver, Colorado. That makes, and yeah, he does. He does. Well. He is paying attention to the numbers. And that's what you did. Yeah. You're paying attention to the numbers. What can I cut? What is superfluous here? Jimmy Lea: That we can vote it off the island and really do more with less. And that's what you've done. 16,000 less in sales. Okay. Big deal. We are eight grand up. We're doing more with less. So I applaud you Clinton. That's freaking awesome, dude. Congrats. So where are you at today? Here you are, two years down the road. Jimmy Lea: Where are you at today? So Clinton Coffman: my next goal is mobile is extremely hard to schedule. Whoa. Yeah. What if your appointments are like, say, okay, bring it in and then if it takes three hours to diagnose it. You've got another bay you can pull in and do the oil change or the brake job or whatever. I am in your driveway. Clinton Coffman: You are my sole priority until I leave. Right? Whoa. Yeah. So, so it makes scheduling sometimes very difficult and you gotta be really picky about what you're going to go out and do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Clinton Coffman: You know what I mean? So, Jimmy Lea: so do you, do those. No start diags late in the afternoon because you know it's gonna be heavy duty and you're gonna have to schedule it for later. Clinton Coffman: So here's, I try to schedule as many jobs early in the week, first thing in the morning. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Okay. Clinton Coffman: That way I can potentially have time if they wanna do it, go pick up parts or you grill them on the phone and you try to guess like, this sounds most likely, like you're gonna need a starter. So I'm gonna pick up a starter beforehand. Clinton Coffman: Hopefully that's what it is. You're not always right, you know? 'cause customers, they say things Jimmy Lea: yeah. They're not a technician. Don't, they're not, don't know. They don't know. Clinton Coffman: They don't know. So what's their heart? You gotta try to guess a little bit. So there's a lot of picking up parts and then returning them. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. And that all takes time, bro. Yeah. And then I'll schedule the next is a three o'clock, which I try to schedule like, Hey, we can get the diag done, most likely we're gonna have to come back. Yeah. If I get really busy and it seems right, I'll schedule a noon. So two to three cars, one to three cars a day. Clinton Coffman: Oh, wow. One to three cars a day. Yeah. And that's the most I can do, you know, some weeks it's five cars. Jimmy Lea: How challenging is it for you to get parts? Clinton Coffman: So it's just, it's time consuming. Jimmy Lea: Time consuming. Are you loyal to a flag? Are you loyal to. A particular parts store or do you just go for the most convenient? Clinton Coffman: So it, it depends. Okay. I use three vendors mainly. I'll use worldpac, O'Reilly's, and Parts Authority. How do you wor use worldpac? Jimmy Lea: I have an account. Well, I parts, I apologize. I understand that. And they deliver. So what are they delivering it to your house? Nobody Clinton Coffman: delivers. I have to go pick it up because I'm, Jimmy Lea: because you're mobile. Jimmy Lea: Because I'm mobile. I thought Worldpac like they don't have stores that's a will call Clinton Coffman: at Jimmy Lea: their warehouse. At the DC Yeah, at the warehouse. Okay. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. So I, so you must be close to the DC and pick them up. I don't use Worldpac that often because they're kind of out of the way. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Okay. You Clinton Coffman: know but if I'm. Clinton Coffman: Close to them and they've got, they make good parts. Jimmy Lea: They do. You know what I Clinton Coffman: mean? Jimmy Lea: They do. Or Clinton Coffman: if it's a European car, then I'm like, I would way rather just get the WORLDPAC stuff 'cause I know it's better. Jimmy Lea: Yep yep. Clinton Coffman: Then I use Jimmy Lea: them. And who are your other two? 'cause as soon as you said Worldpac, I was like, Jimmy Lea: wait a second. Jimmy Lea: How in the world is he doing that? Are they. Delivering it to somebody's physical home address. Oh, wouldn't that be nice Clinton Coffman: if I could get them just to bring it to their house, that'd be helpful. Oh, that would be so much better. But no, they're not gonna do that. That's kind of unfeasible. 'cause then I'd have to be like, here's the address. Clinton Coffman: And then sometimes it's gonna take an hour and a half for them to get the part there anyways, and I'm just standing there. Jimmy Lea: Well that, that somebody's driving to take off and go do another car and come back after the park gets there. But they don't do that anyways. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Okay. So, so the other two flags, O'Reilly's Clinton Coffman: and Parts Authority. Clinton Coffman: Parts Authority, okay. Jimmy Lea: And you must have a pretty good saturation in your area of those stores so that you're able to be fairly loyal to them. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Parts Authority is just like worldpac. Oh really? They just, it's, you Jimmy Lea: don't have physical stores. Clinton Coffman: No they're a warehouse dude. I, I-S-I-N-C and Parts Authority. Clinton Coffman: It's the same company, but they have different names in different places. Jimmy Lea: Okay. I thought that we I thought that Parts Authority was also brick and mortar, but I, yeah, they might, Clinton Coffman: they might be in other areas, but we've got in other areas warehouses, three warehouses here from Parts Authority. Oh, wow. Clinton Coffman: Pretty good. So there's one way up north. There's one in Fife, which isn't too far away, and there's one just right down the street from my house. Jimmy Lea: Got it. Nice. Besides parts, what else is challenging for you as a mobile tech versus what you might think brick and mortar has? Clinton Coffman: Again, it's scheduling. Clinton Coffman: Scheduling, yes. Scheduling is the hardest thing, and then it's sometimes I just can't do the job. Go out there. It's like you need a transmission in your Chevy pickup truck. I am not pulling your transmission out in your driveway. I'm just not gonna do it all by myself. Could I probably do it? Sure. But then how much longer than book time am I gonna spend on it? Clinton Coffman: Twice. What if I drop the thing on my face Jimmy Lea: and you're crawling around on the ground? Yeah. The Chevy truck's up on jacks, but that only gives you a foot and a half. Exactly. That transmission barely fits under the Oh, geez. Yeah. No, what Clinton Coffman: a nightmare. Yeah. So it's that. And then the other thing is, for some reason, which I don't fully understand, the only people, this is gonna sound harsh, but the people who know who mobile mechanics are a thing, don't have a lot of money. Clinton Coffman: Oh yeah. Then every once in a while you'll find somebody, like, it's always easier to make money selling to rich people. Let's just be Jimmy Lea: honest. Yeah. They got the money, they got the funds, they can pay for it. Yeah. Clinton Coffman: And so there's a lot of times I'll go out there and it's a $700 repair, which is not crazy expensive in the automotive world. Jimmy Lea: No that's a pretty good average. Clinton Coffman: And then I've got financing options with my tech metrics so they can't get approved. Jimmy Lea: Oh geez. Clinton Coffman: So it's like, okay, Jimmy Lea: well pull the scratch together when you got it. I guess. I guess there's, lemme know, Clinton Coffman: there's, and another thing that's difficult is I have to charge a minimum to come out. Clinton Coffman: I can't do free break inspections. No, I can't go do a free battery check. No. So sometimes it would be great to do more breaks. Right. But it throws people off when I say, yeah, I can come out to your house, but it's $140 minimum, whether you buy the brakes or not, when they could take it to Midas or wherever and they'll look at 'em for free because it's not costing them any time. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I mean, it is. Clinton Coffman: It is. But the potential upside is way higher than me. Driving 20 minutes to your house, putting your car on Jack's, taking the wheels off. Jimmy Lea: But it's also the exact same thing that a plumber charges. That electrician charges. Yeah. The HVAC charges. If you want the convenience of me coming to your home, it's 140 bucks for me to show up to your front door. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Whether I do anything or not. And of course you're gonna do whatever it is they've hired you to come out there and do anyways. Oh, that's good. That's awesome. So what's what is the future? What does the future look like for you Clinton? Clinton Coffman: So I'm going back and forth. Do I want a brick and mortar location, because that's fair. Clinton Coffman: I don't wanna lay on the pavement forever. Jimmy Lea: Amen. Yeah. There is a beauty. I don't even wanna turn Clinton Coffman: wrenches forever. I would, I'm getting to a point in my life where I would rather have somebody else go do the work and I can operate the business instead of owning a job. Amen. With mobile it's. Clinton Coffman: Finding talent. It's hard. That's willing to do it. Yeah. You know, and they're actually, I can trust them to not leave a wheel loose or misdiagnose or anything because there's no supervision. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. There's no key seat other than pictures on a cell phone. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. It's that, or I'm going to, I'm looking into. Clinton Coffman: My top job categories. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, Clinton Coffman: like, so I make the most money on brakes, engine repairs. That's like check engine lights, spark plug, stuff like that. And cooling systems. Those are my three most profitable besides diagnostics, because I charge a diagnostic fee for everything. So it's obviously through the roof. Clinton Coffman: So. I'm starting to question whether I need to change the model from a diag heavy to a more of like a tire shop in your driveway without doing tires. Ooh, brake oil changes, air filters, Jimmy Lea: which your Clinton Coffman: wipers, the basic stuff that you can train somebody to do quickly and efficiently, right? Because, yeah, finding somebody would. Clinton Coffman: My 20 years of experience, who's willing to do what I'm willing to do to work for myself as opposed to just getting a paycheck. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Clinton Coffman: I know that's gonna be hard to impossible. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Clinton Coffman: It's already hard enough to find tax. Jimmy Lea: Well, and Clinton I do believe you will find there are many opportunities out there right now. Jimmy Lea: As you're driving around. Pay attention to the shops and every once in a while, stop in, talk to the owner. See where they're at. You may find a shop with a lady or a gentleman that's 65 plus years old, and they're looking to retire and get out and be done. And you just keep courting 'em. Keep courting 'em. Jimmy Lea: Keep courting 'em, keep talking to 'em. And eventually they're just gonna say, all right, Clinton, here's the keys. It's yours. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. You know, I almost had a three bay shop last year. Ooh. That was getting ready to retire. It was about 30 minutes away out in the peninsula. It was a nice, affluent neighborhood. Clinton Coffman: Beautiful. But as soon as we got his PS P and Ls, I was working with Kevin at the institute. Yep. He was my coach for the first year. Kevin Clark. We looked through those p and Ls and what he wanted and what he was making. Were not adding up. We were about 40 to 60% off on what it was worth and what he wanted. Clinton Coffman: It's just like, man this place has. Amazing potential, but there is, there's no way I can give you what you're demanding. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I can't buy the blue sky you've you're offering right now. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. I can't buy, you can't buy a shop based on its potential. Yeah. You gotta buy on what it's actually making at that time. Jimmy Lea: Are you still going around? Do you still stop by? Do you still say hello? Clinton Coffman: So I'm not necessarily going from shop to shop and talking to people, but I'm keeping my eye out. I'm looking for empty buildings. I'm on prey and all those other commercial real estate sites, looking for a building. You know, there's a few around, but man, they want. Clinton Coffman: I found a four bay shop right down the street. It's completely empty. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Clinton Coffman: I want 10 grand a month. Yeah. And I'm like, that's close to my total sales every month. I can't afford that. You know what mean not? Not right now. You can't this with a lot of money to begin with. That's why I started with mobile. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: You Clinton Coffman: know, so it's tricky. It's tricky. It Jimmy Lea: is tricky. And I, and you're right. And if I have some advice for you, unsolicited, unpaid, and you know what free advice is worth, take it into advisement. Yeah. Look at the shops that already have people in it. Stop trying to get the empty shop. 'cause you're starting from scratch. Jimmy Lea: Zero. Start with something that's already in second gear, third gear. That's little better because you can take it up from there. Go back to this guy. So I'll tell you a story. Way back in the day, I bought, or I started a franchise. We did house cleaning, yard care and handyman services, and there was a cleaning business. Jimmy Lea: Business for sale. And I saw it on Facebook or Craigslist or something way back in the day. And I called her up and I said hey, we own a cleaning company. You own a cleaning company, you're for sale. What's your number? And it was like way up here. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, I, thanks. I appreciate the number. Jimmy Lea: Would you be willing to get together? I'd love to sit down and talk to you, see what you've got, what your assets are, look at the whole p and l and all that kind of stuff. So we get there, we get together and we get looking at stuff. And I said, Hey I'm not afraid by the number, but I am afraid that your business isn't justifying the number that you're looking for. Jimmy Lea: What's what would be your number? And she came off a couple thousand. I said, okay, no, cool. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I kept in touch with her. I called every two months or so. And come to find out. She had gone and gotten her teaching degree and was going to the next school year, gonna be going back to teaching school. Jimmy Lea: So in the meantime, she lost a couple of accounts and I came, I called her up and I'd say, Hey, so what's your number now? How's it going? How's business? What's your number now? And it just kept coming down and down and down and down. And it got to a point where it was like, okay, I can do that. Jimmy Lea: What you've got left on the books, what you've got left that you're selling. I don't want any of your equipment. But if you're gonna throw it away, I'll take it so you don't have to throw it away. Sure. But you keep your truck, you keep your stuff I'm ready to just take your clients. 'cause that's essentially all I was buying. Jimmy Lea: And that might be the situation that you're in with this per this shop out on the peninsula is, hey, they gave you blue sky here the other day. They've had time to marinate and maybe that couple got together and finally said, you know what, maybe we are ready to just get out and be done. Clinton Coffman: That's what I was really hoping for, but somebody bought it. Clinton Coffman: Oh, somebody bought it. Like for the number they were asking. We were about a month and a half after. I was like I can't you guys, somebody decided it was worth it. Where are they at? I don't know. Do you know the details? Jimmy Lea: You don't know the details? I don't Clinton Coffman: know. I heard a rumor the other week 'cause I have a buddy whose parents live out there. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. The building's for rent. Oh. And I've been meaning all week to call just to see if they're open. Nice. Because maybe I hope not for him. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Clinton Coffman: Right. But maybe that building is empty now. Because things didn't work out. Jimmy Lea: Yep, yep. Clinton Coffman: But yeah, I would feel, I'd feel really bad for the guy who ended up spending that money and then within a year it's Jimmy Lea: closed down Ed Clinton Coffman: and he's got a family. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. No I don't wish any ill will on anybody, but I also know what I'm go, willing to do for my family. Clinton Coffman: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: And that's what you've gotta look after. You gotta look after number one. 'cause nobody else will look after you. Clinton. Nope. You look after you. I love it. I love it. Hey, well, one last final question for you, Clinton. Jimmy Lea: As we land this plane, what does success look like for you? So whether that's today or in the future, what does success look like? Clinton Coffman: So number one is taking care of my family, raising my kids in the right way, being able to afford. We're talking in a financial way to give them the opportunities my parents were able to give me. Clinton Coffman: That's number one. Number two, I would love this to become something, whatever that iteration becomes, right. I'm not opposed to any direction that it goes. As long as it goes something I can pass down. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Clinton Coffman: Something I can be like, Hey, kid. Do you wanna learn how to do this or not? If you don't, that's fine. Clinton Coffman: I don't wanna pressure any of them into following in any footsteps. Jimmy Lea: Right. Clinton Coffman: But I would love, especially with the job market the way it is, and AI taking a lot of entry level jobs. Yep. Now I've got 17 year olds, she's been applying at places. For a year and a half now. Oh my gosh. And you know, McDonald's won't call her back. Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. Clinton Coffman: It's crazy, right? Like when I was 15, 14, I had a paper route. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Those don't Clinton Coffman: even exist anymore, Jimmy Lea: dude. I was 12, 13. Yeah. Then I started a yard care. I was doing lawn mowing lawns. I was making more than teachers at school. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. And now, nowadays it's like. It's very hard to get these kids into something. Clinton Coffman: Yeah. You get a college degree. It's hard to get in somewhere now. Yeah. So something that they can at least fall back on, you know? Yeah. Success is knowing my kids are okay, they're doing the right thing. That I can take care of my, myself and them. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That peace, the happiness that comes with knowing the family's covered. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Well, Clint I know you are gonna be successful. I know you're gonna have a successful life, brother. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. If there's anything I can do along the way to help you out, brother, I'm a phone call away. Clinton Coffman: Absolutely. Absolutely. I appreciate you, Jimmy. Clinton Coffman: Thanks for having me on. Jimmy Lea: You're very welcome. Thank you, Clinton. We'll talk to you soon. Alright. Take care.

164 - What’s Your Shop Worth? with Michael Smith & Cecil Bullard October 29, 2025 - 00:56:06   Show Summary: Discover how real buyers value auto repair shops and how to increase your multiple. In What’s Your Shop Worth with Michael Smith and Cecil Bullard, they explain how to calculate true business value using EBITDA, owner compensation, and accurate add-backs. They share how profit consistency, team strength, and brand reputation impact what your shop is really worth. You’ll also learn the four value drivers that attract higher offers: human capital, brand and culture, customer loyalty, and solid systems. Whether you plan to sell to private equity, a key employee, or family, this session will help you build a more valuable business and secure your financial future.   Host(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:02:10] - Cecil details court cases that reveal how off-books decisions and owner roles can distort a shop’s true value. [00:06:15] - A 40-year legacy appraises at $13,000, showing how “cash machine” habits erase investor value. [00:09:50] - Michael cites that 80–85% of small businesses lack sufficient investor value and why that matters at exit. [00:12:15] - The real options at the end: close, sell to family/key staff, or sell to an investor—and the risks of each. [00:14:10] - Mindset shift: every owner is a private equity investor in their own company, whether they realize it or not. [00:19:40] - Build an exit strategy now; waiting until your mid-60s often means there is little to sell. [00:23:00] - Profit without guilt: you cannot win the lowest-price race, so price for quality and sustainability. [00:29:00] - The four capitals that drive multiples: human (team), social (brand/culture), customer (loyalists), structural (SOPs). [00:44:15] - Why today’s PE buyers pay more for well-run, team-driven shops and what they scrutinize first. [00:50:30] - The consolidation wave is early; position your shop now to ride it for the next two decades.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Cecil Bullard: Welcome. I'm Cecil Bullard from the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. I am the I guess I'm the founder now and not the CEO 43 years in the automotive business. Sitting next to me is Michael Smith. Hi, everybody. Michael and I met three years ago. Yeah, something like that, ish. Cecil Bullard: Michael's an expert on mergers and acquisitions and has put some things together with some of our clients that were very successful and profitable for them. Yes. And a couple years ago, we decided that Michael needed to be a part of the institute. And so here you are. Here we are. Why don't you tell 'em a little bit about your. Michael Smith: Yeah I love your background in the concentration of this industry. I came from a different background. I was in the Fortune 500 level consulting business, and I grew up in 50 or 60 industry verticals. I haven't ever really counted different industries, different dynamics, different edges to them. Michael Smith: Gives me a great background to come here. I think I got here about. 10 years ago, met a guy who had three shops and he said, I'm not having enough fun with this to keep doing it. I either gotta make more money or have more fun or both. Can you help me? And I said, maybe what do you want? He said, can you look at my little three shop system, like you would have one of the bigger companies and help me, tell me what you see. Michael Smith: And I want you here because you're an outsider to the industry, not an insider. And I want you to tell me what you see. And that got me started. Got me started loving this business. The operator, the owner operators that we serve, the people that we've become very fond of. Hardworking people. 20, 30, 40 year legacies in this business. Michael Smith: I, I love the people that we have the privilege to work with. Cecil Bullard: My, my dad was one of those guys that you know, when he was 12 he quit school and went to work at the Ford dealer. Pushing brooms and Yeah. Cleaning stuff up. And eventually became a Ford master mechanic at the dealership. And then he started his own shop in 1961. Cecil Bullard: 61. Yeah. And he worked there for a very long time. He, you know, he's gone now. He's been gone for I think about 12 or 13 years. I try not to keep count of the time. Right. You know, 'cause it's emotional indeed. But he was the he was the guy that worked really hard in his business. Cecil Bullard: But it didn't have the kind of value. And so today I think what we're talking about is value and how do we value these businesses? How are they valued? And I think I, I'd like to add that for about the past six or seven years, I've done quite a few cases where I've testified in court where we've either had like a husband and wife, they're getting divorced. Cecil Bullard: And you know, the last one was kind of interesting. The husband was heaven. An affair with the service advisor. And the wife got kind of kicked out and then the husband started doing stuff off the books. And so it looked like the business had no value, but it really had value because of what had happened previously. Cecil Bullard: And then there was one that I did in Nevada where two owners, one guy left for three years. The other guy closed the corporation and opened another corporation, and this guy came back and wanted a million dollars. And so I've testified in several court cases about how we do value. I wrote an article, it's probably 15 years ago now, about kind of the six or seven major ways that we kind of value automotive businesses. Cecil Bullard: And that has changed a little. I think that's in, to me, it's kind of interesting that, you know, I think four x, maybe five x was five x times ebitda. So earnings before, which I wanna say income tax, interest tax, and depreciation. Ation and amortization. Yeah. And amort. Okay. And the amortization thing I always mess up, but basically at the end of the year, what do I have? Cecil Bullard: F left in the pile before I pay taxes and interest on loans and things like that. And then, so, currently the industry 2.8 is the last number. I saw that about three months ago in a industry article. And so I've been kind of quoting that would fall in line with where we're at somewhere between about one x so, and about four x or maybe five x if I found the right buyer. Cecil Bullard: But really now because of the mergers and acquisitions and the venture capital, some of that's kind of changed. I mean, the core of it really hasn't, you have to be profitable. You have to be growing as a company. You have to have a decent lease or be able to own the property. What does the owner do in the business? Cecil Bullard: If the owner is the service advisor or the lead tech, then the business is worth less because if the owner leaves right, you know, et cetera, can you carry the staff forward? Do you have systems, processes procedures in your business? So I wrote that article I dunno, years ago, published in one of the. Cecil Bullard: Industry magazines. And I think that's how I ended up testifying in court was because somebody dug that up and said, oh, this guy knows what he's talking. So I got 'em all. I got 'em all fooled. Michael Smith: Yeah, no. Well, I, you know, one of the things that caused me to stay when I got introduced to this industry was the dynamic of where we're going. Michael Smith: The fact that I think there's an estimated, at least two thirds of the owner operators, if not more in our industry, are baby boomers who are interested in getting out in the next handful of years or slightly more, maybe sooner if you're exhausted. And the stories are heartbreaking. We have, I have a high performance group of. Michael Smith: Top shops that are becoming topper shops, if you will, and one of the guys told a story at our last meeting, bought the business from his dad. And he said, love my dad worked for my dad. We're th he was the third generation in that family. And he said, and we wanted to give our dad as much money as we possibly could for the business that he was selling to us. Michael Smith: And he said, and we did all the right valuation stuff. And when we were done, the business was worth. Are you ready for this $13,000? Yeah. 40 years. Yeah. In the business it was worth $13,000 on paper from an investor perspective, and it broke their hearts, bought the business from 'em for that, gave them a job, all that right, and then has turned it into something extraordinarily different now. Michael Smith: But that's one of the reasons I'm here, because there's a lot of wonderful car service companies that do a great job with your customers that. Take care of your people very well. Long years of long days, and all the stress that goes in our industry and you don't have enough to retire on at the end. And that just, it breaks our hearts. Michael Smith: There's, it's one of the things that makes Cecil Bullard: me very passionate about the industry. You know, having my dad, yeah. Work is, you know, just work his fingers to the bone his entire life. And don't get me wrong, he loved what he was doing, but it we were never. Well off. Yeah. You know, we were always on the poor side. Cecil Bullard: Later when I managed his shop, we started making money and so he was able to do some things and put some money away for his retirement. But there's so many shop owners that are not only just like working so hard in their business, but. They don't understand at the end that it's not worth very much because you didn't do the things that, or maybe you did. Cecil Bullard: You know, there's instances, even now we're doing some evaluation, we're doing a lot of this right now for some of our clients and some other people like, Hey what is my business worth? I think it might be worth, we got a guy he thinks it's worth maybe two or 300,000. And when we looked at what he's pulling out and way, he's pulling it out. Cecil Bullard: Unfortunately, if he had not done it that way and done it a different way, then he would've got the multiple meaning he, he took 150,000 as a salary. That probably should have been a draw to put in the profit, and we can put some of that back and create some additional wealth outta that. But if he had done it right. Cecil Bullard: Initially and knew what he was up to. It. It could even be I think we figured out it was a little worth a little over 800,000 when we did the bot, the put backs and Yeah. But it probably could have been worth a million too. Sure. Right. And so I think that's Michael Smith: the, and that's one of the, you know, that's one of the statistics, one of the things we got to know each other, walking beside very successful clients. Michael Smith: Either side of them, looked over at each other and said, you know, this is not like two separate sets of train tracks. This is a set of train tracks that the same clients are gonna go down. His is one track, mine's another one. We should make them parallel and do this thing together. But one of the topics that came up was that issue of value and the fact that, you know, the private equity world, when you ask them, take all small businesses that are privately held, like our industry. Michael Smith: Primarily is, and you ask the private equity people, what percentage of those companies, out of a hundred percent are, have been run such that they have been good investment, they would be good investments for us to buy as an investor, not have they been good cash machines for the owner, but is there something to buy at the end, guys, the statistic is 80 to 85%. Michael Smith: Of the privately held businesses in this country, and not just our industry, but all industries, 6 million plus businesses, 80 to 85% of them have been used as like a cash machine. And do not ha get this, do not have enough significant value in them for an investor to even buy them. Cecil Bullard: So I was talking about the case that I did in Vegas a few years ago. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. In Las Vegas. The other guy came back and they had showed like a hundred thousand in profit. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But they hadn't paid themselves. So one guy was the service advisor, the other guy was the lead tech, and then they had a couple of other techs and they did like 500, 600,000 and they showed a hundred thousand in profit. Cecil Bullard: But when you put their salaries back into the company it actually lost like 40 grand. So it had zero value. Right. I mean, it really had no value. The when I got done testifying and brought all the pieces in play and I said, you know, an average service advisor in this area would make X and an average you know, tech would make wine. Cecil Bullard: And so the company really lost over $40,000 in this year. And the judge was like you know, okay, we're done. There's no court case. They just dismissed the case. Yeah. Because there was no value, there was no conversation you had and you see it. Cecil Bullard: You see it a lot. I mean, the other thing I see is guys that don't figure this out in a timely fashion, like okay. Cecil Bullard: I don't want to think about it. I got a couple guys right now that that are in their, you know, mid sixties. Yeah. And by the way, I'm on the lower edge of the baby boomers. Right. So, so these guys are boomers, right? Yeah. Right. But they don't want to think about their retirement. They got sons in play. Cecil Bullard: The sons are kind of being underpaid, undervalued. Right. But if they don't figure it out when the time comes, you know, when they have to. Five years from now, four years from now, there just won't be value there. Michael Smith: Well, if you think, and if you think about it, you know, if we don't build businesses that have investor value, that's, that is obvious to an investor, what do you do with it at that point? Michael Smith: You come to the end, you got really two choices. One close it. Just stop, which gives you really nothing other than the asset sale of whatever you can. You can dig outta the business and sell at a super discount to somebody, or you sell it to a key employee that may be a family member for as much as you can get out of 'em. Michael Smith: If you're lucky, and I'm gonna say if you're lucky in maybe a non-ethical way. You sell it to them for more than it's worth. 'cause they don't know any better when you fix a price to it. They say okay, but that's it. Those are your, those are our two choices. Right? And Cecil Bullard: You are an investor whether you like it or not. Cecil Bullard: And there's a, I think there's a, an industry like I don't want to deal with private equity. And so, okay, so you're not gonna deal with private equity, so you're not gonna have an investor, like a cash investor come in, you're gonna deal with your son, your daughter. Your cousin or a long-term employee. Cecil Bullard: Right. And that is a big part of what happens, right. But if you look at money management and they don't have any money, Michael Smith: right. Cecil Bullard: So maybe they've saved 50,000 or a hundred thousand Well, and they put a down on your business Yes. At 400,000 or 500,000 and you carry it. But those payments, first of all, won't, they're not gonna give you a lifestyle that is comfortable. Cecil Bullard: Right. And if you have one health issue you're done. You're done. And then and the other part of that for me is it's just like that if they screw up a year and a half in and you think you're retired and they've screwed it up, and now you're coming back and you've got the original a hundred thousand and maybe you had 50 or 60,000 in payments over the year and a half, they were in. Cecil Bullard: But you're you only got a third of the money and there's nothing there. Right. There's nothing left because they've chased the customers away. They've they've pissed off all the vendors, you know, et cetera. Michael Smith: Well, I'm, I wanna go back to something you said. I don't wanna sell to a private equity investor. Michael Smith: Okay. You're gonna, if you don't close the front door, you are gonna sell to a private equity investor. And this is something I talk to my clients about here all the time. I wanna see a mindset shift, right? I wanna see it in the industry. I wanna see us go from saying, oh, you know, if I say, what do you do for a living? Michael Smith: And say, I own an auto service shop. Really? Tell me about that. I'm an owner operator. You know what I want the second answer to be? I'm a private equity investor who happens to invest in a. Auto service companies. And I'm gonna tell you that's a huge mindset shift because, and I'm not correcting you. Michael Smith: I'm saying this is the conversation that happens is I don't wanna be involved in investment to conversations. You were, when you bought the company, you bought it as a private equity investor regardless of you bought, whether you knew it or not. Right. And you're selling it to somebody who's a private equity investor in your company. Cecil Bullard: Oh, no I started it because I just needed to make a living and I didn't feel like I could make a living where my. Where I was and I wasn't getting paid enough and I wasn't in control. I can do it better than that. Crazy hunter do it. But you're a private equity investor for yourself. I mean, and that shift really does need to happen. Cecil Bullard: I mean, and the other thing that I think is cool 'cause. You know, we have a lot of clients around the United States and Canada primarily, and I, I'm watching these young guys come in their late twenties, early thirties, and they're like, I'm gonna have 55 shops, and they're going out and getting 2, 3, 4, 5 really relatively quickly. Cecil Bullard: Right. But they're coming in with a completely different mindset of this is an investment and you know, you, like it or not, you may have come in, like my father out of. Like, I call it serendipity, right? Right. Accidentally falling backwards into it. I opened a shop. I ended up working at Ford to sweeping floors and then learned how to be a mechanic, and so then I opened a shop. Cecil Bullard: Serendipitously. Right. But you are an investor, whether you like it or not, in your own success or your own ultimate failure, right? Yeah. And there's nothing I had we've done multiple plans for guys. I had a someone who, if I said his name, most, a lot of people in the industry would know who I'm talking about, right? Cecil Bullard: They know the guy and he's got multiple shops at this point, but he came on at a shop that was one of the guys in our group. Knowing that in seven years he was going to buy the shop. Right? But they didn't get the details in play, right? And so at the end, the owner is looking at what the value of the shop is, and so is he. Cecil Bullard: He's going, well, it's only worth a million, right? And the owner's saying, well, I don't have any money set aside and I don't. I need a million and a half to retire. So now. The price is suspect after seven years of him putting his life in there. The price is suspect. Right. And the deal almost didn't happen. Cecil Bullard: I had to tell the buyer you know, pay an extra a hundred grand. Just do it 'cause the value is there in the shop. We'll get it back. And he did. But then the owner wanted even more. He wanted like the roof. The roof needed to be replaced 'cause he'd never fixed the roof and it leaked for years. Cecil Bullard: And it was like gonna cost $47,000 to fix the roof. And yeah, the owner wanted the new buyer to fix the roof and not have that in. And I was finally like, go back to the owner and go, sorry. No deal. Yeah, no, no deal. And but if you. So I did another one in for another guy, which if I mentioned people would know. Cecil Bullard: They, I think they ended up with six or seven shops at this point, but I don't know, eight years ago, nine years ago, we made a deal with one of the key employees that if they grew the business, we would give them. Up to 25% of the company as stock over seven years, and at the end of seven years, if they had grown the business enough, they would have 25% of the stock, plus they would then be able to buy the business, but the business was worth. Cecil Bullard: I don't know, 10, 15 times what it was worth before. Right. Even though I gave up 30%, I still came out way ahead. Right. And that deal went down as planned. Right. And so now there's a guy that owns multiple shops who came in, they negotiated, we were involved in those negotiations and setting that plan up. Cecil Bullard: And then seven years later, okay, we have an agreement. This is the agreement. This is for market value boom. Right. And everybody's happy and walks away from it and the owner can retire if he wants to retire, he can do other things if he wants to do other things. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But too many of the guys, I have another guy right now who is my age, and he's not unhealthy, but you know, who knows right? Cecil Bullard: At this age, who knows? I mean, you could wake up tomorrow and they could tell you got a tumor in your head. Right, right, right. So that happened to somebody I know. Somebody we know. But he doesn't wanna have the conversation with his son. He doesn't want to do what he needs to do. Right. And it's really not. Cecil Bullard: Like he doesn't want to take care of his kid or he doesn't want his business going. It's like, I don't wanna think that someday I might die. Right? No. So I don't wanna have Michael Smith: that conversation. And you add to the fact that we do not work in an easy business. It is complicated, time consuming, energy draining. Michael Smith: And the important stuff, some times we all talk about gets pushed to the back for the urgent. Cecil Bullard: I cannot tell you, it happens a lot how many guys we have right now that are in their late sixties, early seventies. That have to get outta their business, just have to but they haven't done what they need to create the value to, to be able to, in my opinion, retire with dignity. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Et cetera. Yep. And it's it's, so, here's an idea. It's Michael Smith: heartbreaking. So here's an idea. Yeah. No matter where they are in the business, right, that the owner operator says, you know what, from this day forward, I'm gonna see if I can make this as valuable from an investment perspective as I can, regardless of who I sell it to. Michael Smith: So you don't wanna play the private equity game. Completely understand. Why don't, that's fine. But what does it hurt you to build a company that has as much investment value as you can, that along the way makes you more money than you've ever made before, continues to grow faster and better than you've ever had before, gives you the resources to build up a better team to go get better customers, right? Michael Smith: It's kinda like what's the losing proposition in this? So if you just. Go that way and still decide to sell it to whoever at the end, along the way, you win. So the point is, start now. Well think about the end. Now, regardless if you're 20 years old or 65 years old, I don't, Cecil Bullard: I don't care what age you are. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I don't care if you're matter brand new coming in or you're 65 or 70, you need to be thinking about what your out strategy is. Yes. No matter what. Absolutely. And the good news is if you're 25 or 30. You have lots of time. If you're 65 or 70, there's not much time left. Ah, you still got lots of time. Cecil Bullard: Right, right. Michael Smith: We keep telling ourselves that every day. We still got lots of time. Right. I got Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. But we are, you know, we are setting ourselves up as investors, right. To be successful. And I think one of the things that drives me nuts about our industry is. Understand how to run your business profitably and don't feel guilty about making profit, because that's what it's about, right? Cecil Bullard: Because if you don't, you're gonna come to this point where you're like, I gotta get out. I'm not healthy enough, or whatever, and there's nothing there for you. I mean, that's no real value. So, so I wanna Michael Smith: hear your opinion about this. So I'll toss out an idea, right? So if you say to yourself, I feel guilty about making a profit. Michael Smith: And a lot of our clients, they struggle with this, right? And the whole industry kind of does. The whole industry does so, right? So if we say, okay you're welcome to feel guilty about that but let's say this you're gonna need to, when you go to another. Place to get service, whether you hire a lawyer to help you with a will or whether you go to buy a service. Michael Smith: You know, you go to buy a product, you're gonna put an air Cecil Bullard: conditioning in that house, anything or whatever, right? Right. Your HVAC goes Michael Smith: out and it's spend 12 grand on a new one, whatever it is. Right? You sit down. Are you worried about their profit margin when you do that? No. The price matters, but it's back to the quality of the equipment. Michael Smith: It's like, does it, is it the right fit for the house? Let's stay with hvac, right? Yeah. Do I overbuy, do I undery? Is there a warranty? What does it look like? Are these people are. Cecil Bullard: Also ran piece of equipment. Are they putting, absolutely putting a ream in or something that has a brand name? Or do you Michael Smith: go to your HVAC person, guy or gal and go, Hey, listen, I want you to put in the cheapest possible thing you can. Michael Smith: That's gonna be problematic for me in very short order, and I don't care if you have a warranty or not. Just give me the lowest price you possibly can. It's kind of exaggerating, but like, what are you gonna, you're not gonna make that. Other decision, you're gonna make the decision to buy the quality, pay the right price for it, sleep at night. Michael Smith: I don't wanna think about Cecil Bullard: it for the next 25 years if I'm gonna spend that of money, I don't wanna think about Michael Smith: it. Exactly. And so here's the point that I'm making. As you draw your customers in, and we know this based on how you approach that philosophy, if you feel guilty about making. A margin, a good margin in your business, a good profit. Michael Smith: And then you start to cut the profit amounts to be able to be more price competitive in the market. I'm gonna say this, from a competitive advantage standpoint, you're already starting to play a losing game. 'cause if you think about it, there's only one low price player in every market. Just one. Only one person can be at the bottom of that game. Michael Smith: And everybody, it's a race to, there's only one Walmart. It's ARAF to race to destruction, right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. And you think about it and that's the thing I always say is that. Yeah. No matter how cheap you can be someone can be cheaper than you. Gotcha. Right. You can't win that game. You cannot win that game. Cecil Bullard: Right. And so in my crystal ball, the future of the automotive industry is you got the cheap guy, you're always gonna have the cheap guy else working out of his house, not doesn't have workers' comp, whatever, don't know what they're Michael Smith: doing. Michael Smith: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: But you're also, you're gonna have the guy that gives really great service. Cecil Bullard: And a great product. Those are the only two that, that are gonna exist. And we've seen this happen in multiple industries. I mean, Kmart, where'd they go? Right, right. I mean, target kind of holds on, it's a middle player if you's middle. If you think Walmart and Nordstrom's and you know, Target's a little bit of a middle player. Cecil Bullard: But even then. We know that if I go to Target, I'm gonna pay a little more money. I believe I'm gonna get a little higher quality, blah, blah, blah. Right. They're not Michael Smith: play on the low price game. No. Cecil Bullard: They're really not. Right. And so let's go let's I guess this is about how do you value a shop? Cecil Bullard: Yes. Okay. And so you need three years worth of profit and loss statements, minimal. For someone to really take a look at your business and go, here's what it ought to be worth. Right. Right. And it, the primary thing is. How much profit did you make? I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, there's these other factors like, have you been growing or shrinking? Cecil Bullard: You know, 2020, hurt a lot of companies, right. Not because they didn't survive or they didn't even make money in 2020. They just didn't make as much as they had previously. Yep. And the banks and everything, they're like, well, you're not worth, we can't loan you money, or we can't do this because you had a low year. Cecil Bullard: So it's about consistency of profit that's. That's, I don't know, that's 50, 60% of it. And how much? Because if you make a 4% profit or you make a 20% profit, the 4% profit company has no value. I mean, almost nothing. Right. Even if it's, I did well, we did 40 million and we made 4%. You know, and by the way, there's no auto shops doing 40 million that made 4%. Cecil Bullard: They won't. If they won't survive, they won't. You can't get that big on 4%. You can't do that, right? You Michael Smith: have nothing to invest. Cecil Bullard: But it that's like the bulk of it really is that consistency of profit over time. And because that's the, what the bank is willing to land on. Yeah. That's what creates most of the value. Cecil Bullard: Yep. There are other things like if the owner doesn't work in the company as far as like, I might do the books or I might come in and, you know, once a week and kind of rah the guys, but I'm not fixing cars and I'm not right in service. That adds to that, that means I get a bigger X. Cecil Bullard: But everything and so you, you also have these owners right now. They're like, well, you know, I'm I buy all my groceries through the company, right? So they're, you know, they're whatever. Bill is huge. And the company makes a lot less profit and they think they're saving themselves 'cause they're not paying taxes on that money. Cecil Bullard: Right. Saves them that I don't know that 25% on the money, so. But let's say that I do that and it's $50,000 a year that I'm spending, and I'm gonna make 50,000 less, and I'm gonna not pay taxes on that 50 grand, which would be 20, I don't know, 23, 20 7% or something. So it's gonna save me 10, 12,000. Cecil Bullard: But that 50,000, when I go to sell it, if it's a four x or A three X, just Michael Smith: make it three x. Right. Three x that, that's Cecil Bullard: $50,000. How many years do I have to do? That's right. To make up for that $150,000 I'm not gonna get at the end. Yep. I mean, and Michael Smith: so, so let's pretend for a second that, that you do wanna play an investment game. Michael Smith: And I, I call it a game because there's lots of strategies. It's like playing chess. Everything's a game. Life. Life is a game. Life's a game. That's how we, that's how we enjoy what we're doing. Here anyway, so what we talk about is just go with me for a minute. Say you want to make this worth as much as you can to an investor. Michael Smith: So what Cecil was saying is absolutely right. The baseline you have to present into the investment community is better than your average shop in our industry. The average shop in our industry is a 4% net. At the end, the paycheck does or doesn't. Sometime one month the owner gets a paycheck. One month they don't. Michael Smith: One month they get a paycheck. One month they don't. It's two to three employees. This is the average shop in our industry out of 235,000. Approximately. Okay. So if you think from an investor's perspective, that doesn't even get you to the table. And this is kind of the point that I think we're trying to make. Michael Smith: If you're struggling at that level you can't stop now, right? If you want to put you, you don't even have to want to win at the investment game. But if you're gonna sell it to have anything really meaningful come back to you to retire on, we have to get out of this sort of typical industry thinking and start saying, okay. Michael Smith: And I'm gonna put it this way, what does an investor want to see when they come to the table to give me more than that? That minimum amount, the two and a half times of that 4% net, right? They won't even pay you for that. But two, how about a Cecil Bullard: 4% net? You're gonna. You won't make two and a half times won't, you're gonna make less. Cecil Bullard: You won't. So yeah you might get a one x or maybe even a two x, but so what does it take Michael Smith: to make more? Right? So let's talk about that. When an investor comes in, the minimum that you have to show them a steady growth of revenue and profits over a three better, a five year period of time that you can tell a story in the marketplace. Michael Smith: What is your unique. Competitive advantage, not what your competitive advantage, that's the same as his and hers and his and hers. You gotta stop a unique thing and we have Cecil Bullard: to, in our industry, we have to stop thinking about, well I can I use a better water pump? Or, you know, whatever. Or I have a SC certified master technicians. Cecil Bullard: That's nobody. That's your, nobody else ever said, that's not your competitive advantage. Your competitive advantage is how you make your client feel. Right, exactly. And the consistency that you create in your company because of that. Right. That's those things are your competitive advantages. Michael Smith: So there's a list of things that private equity will pay more for than just a well run financial shop. Michael Smith: So let me give you the short list. Human capital. Do you have the rock stars working for you? Leaders and team members, that's one. Number two is social capital, your culture, your brand, and your market reputation. Is it superior? We know the definition of superior brand, superior culture, superior market reputation. Michael Smith: Lemme just get the list out and we'll come back to it if I can't. Right? Number three is customer capital. Have you captured the premium customers in your marketplace? If you can make the case that the rock stars are yours, the market position is yours in terms of leadership and influence, and the customers are there. Michael Smith: You got the best customers in town. Then they say there's one more thing we want to ask you. Have you institutionalized all of this so that when you, the owner, walk away with a check and we take the keys from you, that this thing will continue in the excellence that you built for us after we buy it? And if they feel confident that all of that is there, we're talking two to three times. Michael Smith: More value coming back to you than if we just run the average kind of a shop, Cecil Bullard: Cecil? Well, it's kind. So I wanna go back to those four, but absolutely. It's kinda like this. So I'm running a 4% shop and I'm making 60,000 a year, right? So I'm doing 1,000,002, I'm I'm net 60 plus whatever I'm taking outta the company. Cecil Bullard: And I can do some put backs depending on how. What I do in the company and how in ingrained I am. Right? And so if I'm making 40,000. Then that shop has no value, no matter what. And these guys build like, well, we have the reputation in the area. Okay, great. But if you don't have the team, if you don't have the other things that go along with that then it does, it's not worth any that reputation. Absolutely. It by the way, I see guys with great shops as far as reputation goes with not enough profit. Where they're closing their doors because nobody can buy it. Nobody wants to buy it, no bank will loan on it, blah, blah, blah. Cecil Bullard: And it, it makes me it, again, a lot of things make me crazy. It's one of those things. So go back to the four, what was the first thing that you said? Human Michael Smith: capital. Cecil Bullard: So human rock stars, human capital. So you're, what you're always doing if you do this right, is you're always building a team. Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Right. So. Everything that I do in this company and in the shops was to build a team of successful people so I don't have to be there. Right. To guide that team or lead that team or answer all their questions. For them not because of value, frankly. 'cause I never thought of it that way. Cecil Bullard: Quite, I thought of it in this sense. I don't want to be locked and tied into this day-to-day. Like my dad's shop had a, a room that was like probably 10 or 11 feet wide by 20 feet. That's where the counter was. That's what when I ran his shop, that's where I spent 90% of my life was in that 11 by 20 space. Cecil Bullard: Right. And it drove me nuts. And I'm like, I can't do this for the rest of my life. I can't that's kinda why I like what I'm doing. 'cause I can go. I'll be on the East coast next week and you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But so I need to be building human capital teams Yes. Of people that can do the job without me. Cecil Bullard: Right. Right. And some of these guys, God bless you, but you're so, I need to be the guy that. That literally is the guy that's the best guy that makes all the decisions that does because only I can make those decisions and only I really know how to fix the cars and only I know how to talk to. Yep. And that is so much crap. Cecil Bullard: So lemme tell you is bad for you and Michael Smith: lemme tell you how you break free from that, right? You have to have a mindset shift. That you're not, you shouldn't be the answer person. And that's a mindset shift. There's a dopamine hit that goes with being the mind to being the answer person. Right. I am Cecil, I'm stuck. Michael Smith: Can you help me? Oh, sure. I can. Yeah, lemme help you. Let me tell you what to do. And then that. Thanks, boss. And then you walk away and cecil's like, Cecil Bullard: well, Michael Smith: he is glowing. Right? That's, I'm a genius. I'm kidding. I'm so smart. That's the same dopamine addiction that takes kids back to social media, right? That dopamine addiction owners who do this, that's so you feel good about that, but guess what? Michael Smith: I talk all the time about an investor. I got a short list of questions. I got medium lists, I got long listed investors use. That's what we train our clients. And one of the questions on that list is, and this is serious, you've heard this over and over, how much do you work on the business versus in the business? Michael Smith: Early owners will say, what do you mean? It's like, what are the roles that you play in the business right now? And an owner may say, oh, I'm the fallback guy. I answer the questions nobody else can answer. When the service advisor team is down, I'm at the front desk, I'm under a car. Whenever a tech doesn't show up, I do all the bookkeeping, my, my spouse and I, all this. Michael Smith: Right? At the end of the day, you know, every one of those roles that you play, working in the business is something that the new owner has to pay somebody to bring to the table. When they buy the business. So you wanna work yourself into a position, and I'm going somewhere with this where you don't have to do that. Michael Smith: And you may say, I can't do that. My people aren't that good. There you go. That's your problem. Your people aren't that good. Train them. Hire a different class of people. We know exactly what it means to be a champion, to run a champ. Team, we know how to turn champions on, get the rock stars to come to you. Michael Smith: The kinds of questions to ask, we know why they come and stay. Rock stars are different than the typical employee. We teach you these things and we say once you get those people to come to you, then guess what? They don't ask you those questions as much anymore. And guess what? They're more reliable. Michael Smith: 'cause they come to work and they'll call you if they're not feeling well. And you can make other arrangements not to have to be the emergency. Fill in. And the point is, it's like if you find yourself in a place where you're stuck doing that. With all due respect, it may be as much on you as it is on the people in your shop. Michael Smith: There are ways to get around this stuff, and again, there's no guilt trip here. This is how you prepare your shop for an investor's sale, is you make sure that you take care of these value components and you put them in place before you try to sell it to anybody. Whether the investor is your kid or your key employee, or some private equity person walking in the front door with a big checkbook. Michael Smith: Same dynamic. Cecil Bullard: So we have a rather large client. They do. Exceptionally well. Yeah. And in their business, the owner was the head diagnostician. Yep. Right. And he als he had cancer and had to go in for chemo and Yeah. Et cetera and literally disappeared. And we didn't have anybody that could be the diagnostician. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so they're like, okay, well we're gonna hire this person or whatever, but you, where do you find them? And. How did you become good at what you do? I got news for you. I'm, I tripped. I made mistakes. I screwed up. I learned, right? And I didn't have somebody looking over my shoulder. Cecil Bullard: Pointing out every right way I should do the job. Right, right. And so you're not doing yourself or your people any favors? No. If you are the shell answer man in your business, you're not doing it. Absolutely. Alright, so number two, what was number two on your list? Michael Smith: I put it as social capital brand culture. Cecil Bullard: So brand reputation, and. Some of our clients or some of the industry our clients, I think do a good job in a lot of ways. Yeah. But I think some of the industry does a pretty good job on the brand part, but there's more to brand than just the name of your shop. As being recognizable. Cecil Bullard: Right. It's how does the rest of the community see you? Right. And how do your employees see you? Because if your employees don't see the way you need to, then your brand is not. What you think your brand is. If you haven't created that culture of leaders in your company, that team culture in your company, then your brand is not as strong. Cecil Bullard: Right? And you may think, oh, well, everybody thinks of Bob's Auto and when they're in this city and we are the best and everybody knows we're the best, but frankly, that isn't gonna. That, that might carry you forward some, but doesn't carry you forward all the way. So what was number three on your list? Michael Smith: Customer capital. Have you captured the loyal, the clients, the loyal brand ambassadors that are yours Cecil Bullard: and by the market. And the way, if you have a bunch of people that don't come back, or a bunch of people that come in for cheap oil changes or whatever, and then that's not, you know, if I can show that I have these clients that keep coming back and spending money over years with us. Cecil Bullard: That is I is of extreme value. Right. You know, 'cause Blue Sky, which we used to talk about all the time. Blue Sky is something that has almost completely disappeared. Right. Because when you're not there, if they're only loyal to you. Then they're not gonna be loyal to the brand, the company, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: Yep. And so I, again, if I can do these things right, I might have a business that's worth 2 million as opposed to 600,000. Yep. Right. So level four. Michael Smith: The structural capital. Have you built it in to your company systems, processes? Have you, you know, pretend you have one, two, and three, right? Michael Smith: Right. You're the rock stars, the great brand culture, market reputation, and the loyal clients attached to you. But what if it's all wrapped around you? Have you institutionalized it so that will continue without you having your hands on it at all? That's number four, right? So Cecil Bullard: If you come into, if I come into value a shot, because the courts have asked me to do that, right? Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna look at three to five years of profit and loss. I'm also gonna look at the p and l because looking at the p and l and the profit and loss gives me information about. Is this real or bs? Right? But I'm also gonna look at what is the owner doing on a day-to-day basis in that company? Because if you are that person, then your shop it literally could go from say, a five x down to a one and a half x. Even though you might be making money. Yeah. Right. Because I've gotta think about it. I'm, you know, I've seen people buy company I bought a company and the transition. Between getting those clients in, we lost more clients than we probably should have because I still haven't figured that out really but I've seen shops do it and the owner leaves and all of a sudden the techs leave and the service advisors leave. Cecil Bullard: And then whoever bought it is standing there with nothing. Which is Michael Smith: also a dynamic in the buying process with a real investor. They try to assess that too. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. How do I continuity? How do I know if there's some continuity there? And by the way, if you have a good team and you have those systems and processes that guarantee profit, and these people are being paid well and they feel good about being a part of this company, right. Cecil Bullard: That gives you more continuity. So it gives you that fourth Yep, that fourth level of, Michael Smith: of capital. There are, and I'll say this, there, there are processes and techniques and tools behind building all of these things. You start building a high performance company by being very clear about who you are and what you stand for and when you can articulate that, and I mean. Michael Smith: Go through a process of writing it down with great clarity that the meaning and the intensity and the emotion of the meaning is available to people who understand what that's about, what that's those statements, if you will say, then you have the platform to build a brand and your culture on. By the way, brand is your external company. Michael Smith: Personality culture is your internal culture. Personality the culture is your internal company personality. And I make a joke with people when we're teaching this and talking about this. Don't be schizophrenic. Yeah. Don't try to have a brand that's different externally than your culture is internally. Michael Smith: When you get consistency on that, based on the meaning that you've articulated. Then you can, number one, attract team members who walk that out naturally and are aligned. Those people then bring in customers who are aligned with the meaning, the brand and the culture, and the structuring of, this is what I'm talking about, making this a process and making this become real for your company. Michael Smith: There are tools, there are methodologies, there's nothing. Unknown about what we're talking about. It's unusual in this industry, but it's not unknown to science, business science, or in other industries. And that's literally what we're doing is bringing this and having these conversations with our customers, with our industry marketplace. Michael Smith: And say, guys with private equity at the door, right? The baby boomers are getting ready to run from the door in volume. The private equity guys are sitting at the door salivating, waiting for the doors to open so they can run in. And this moment in time we sit in right now. What can we be doing to build as much value as we can to either present it to them for purchase or to say to them, I don't need you. Michael Smith: I'm fine on my own. The boomers who are leaving, how can you build as much value in this thing as you can in the time that you have left? Whether it's a year or five years, or you could extend it to seven. We're not saying be working when you're 80, but we're saying don't walk outta here with the knowledge that's available to do this. Michael Smith: Don't leave without understanding what you need from the company when you're gone. What are you gonna do after you're retired? When you sold this thing? What your life look like after that? How much money do you need to live that life? Yeah, and what's the business have to give you to get there? Do this thinking now, Susan, and think Cecil Bullard: about all these guys that are, they're at that place in time. Cecil Bullard: Where they think if I don't have my business, I have nothing. Yeah. Like it's so much a part of them. Yeah. And I want to talk private equity, but I wanna make a statement first. Sure. So, so then I want to talk a little bit about private equity. Yeah. My statement is this, if you're not profitable and profitable to probably 15%. Cecil Bullard: 14%, maybe 18% is better. 20% net is better. Cecil Bullard: If you're not profitable. None of the other crap matters. It's, it has no value. Right? So not only do I have to do these things, but I also need to understand and learn how to be profitable in my company and not feel bad about making a profit in my company right now. Cecil Bullard: Let's talk private equity for a minute. Yep. So, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, a couple of private equity companies step into the automotive space and they're gonna. What do we consolidate? Right? Right. And so they go out and they buy shops, but the shops they're buying are really poorly run shops because they're, their thinking from their side is, well, we know how to run a business. Cecil Bullard: That's Cecil Bullard: right. Cecil Bullard: And so we're gonna come in and we'll put our processes and we're we know how to charge margin and blah, blah, blah. We're gonna teach these guys how to do business. Yeah. And they, these companies literally fell on their face, one of 'em still here, and they're actually doing better. Cecil Bullard: But only because they changed what they were looking for. And so now these private equity companies are not looking for companies that have no margin and where the owner's in the middle of it, right? They're looking for companies that have good margin. Where they built the team, where they have the people capital, where they have the brand capital, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And they're willing to pay more for those companies than they ever did. So instead of them coming in and paying somebody a hundred grand for their shop Yeah, which was poorly ran and really probably wasn't even worth that. They thought, oh, well, they're not marking their parts up and they're not getting their profits and they're not selling enough and their average repair is too low. Cecil Bullard: We'll fix all those things. And number one, they don't know how to do that. Right. That's what we know how to do. But I know but they couldn't, they didn't because there wasn't the basis in the human capital, the other stuff there. And then they said, oh, we made a mistake. We've spent a few billion dollars on this. Cecil Bullard: Now I want companies where that structure is there. That capital is there, that team is there. Yep. And I'm willing to pay. Five x for that. I mean, or four x at least at the top of the charts. Right. And I just find that interesting. So now we have a bunch of more private equity guys looking at our industry and coming in our industry. Cecil Bullard: I don't know how many. But I would tell you that I literally probably get two or three inquiries a week from different investment companies, private equity companies, about we're buying up the automotive industry, we're interested in buying, either buying your company, or how can you help us find shops that they can buy at that are these type of shops. Cecil Bullard: And so let's say that now we have 15 or so and the billions and billions of dollars that they have. This is you. You know, I'm sure that the guy that owned the Bob's hardware in the middle of town, you know, 20 years ago, was a great guy. I'm sure that he was doing everything that he felt he should. Cecil Bullard: But Bob's hardware doesn't exist today. Right. Right. It's gone. Right. And there I you go in the Midwest, you go in the south, there are still some small hardware stores. But almost everything is Home Depot, Lowe's there's a Freedman's in California. You know, more of the bigger chain, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And the rest are gone. Well, Michael Smith: there's, there are cycles that roll, rolling up industries go through. We're at the beginning of ours. Yeah. And so that gives us. It gives us time. Cecil Bullard: 10 to 15 years. Yes, it does. To figure this out and really work it well, Michael Smith: yes it does. And I'm, I also wanna say this about us oldsters. Michael Smith: I'm a early, I'm a sort of the end of the baby Boomer group too. Along with Cecil. I have a lot of clients that I work with and they. You know, they start, the conversation starts. I'd like to figure out how to do as much as I can before I'm done. And we get into this and they start to unpack what it takes to be a high performance company, how to put value in it, like an investor would see it. Michael Smith: What if I chose to have expand my footprint, right? Take my tent stakes out further. Once they start to learn this and they realize there's a science behind it, I cannot tell you the number of people in their sixties that turn to me and they go, wait a minute. What am I gonna do when I retire anyway? And now stay with me. Michael Smith: Right? Yeah. If I say that to some of you who are probably gonna catch up with this, you're gonna say, oh my God, I'm exhausted. What do you mean I'm gonna change my mind? There's no way in hell. But here's the thing, if you do the same thing over and over again, right? That's Einstein's version of what it means to be insane. Michael Smith: Insane, right? And hope for a different outcome. But what if you're not doing the same thing over and over again? What if this wave of investment money, regardless of who's holding it, right, there's good guys out there holding it and bad guys out there holding it. We can decide. You can, we know how to decide which ones we do and don't wanna work with, but the money is here, right? Michael Smith: The opportunity with the boomers that are gonna leave is here. It's churning the marketplace. What if the Cecil Bullard: wave is gone, right? I don't, I mean, the wave is Michael Smith: here, right? Yeah. And we're like, oh, look the water's receding on the beach. Let's go pick up seashells. It's like, guys, you should be getting ready here right now. Michael Smith: How? Right? How many, how Cecil Bullard: many times in your life have you. Said yourself. I wish I knew that 20 years ago. Yes. Right. And that's my point. Or I wish someone had, you know, frankly, I really wish my dad or somebody had just smacked me in the face and said, Hey, stupid, wake up. Right. You know? Because there are things that I learn as I get older. Cecil Bullard: That. I'm like, man, if I'd have known that 20 years ago, right. I don't know how many clients have come to me and said, you know, that thing is what you asked me to do. I finally did it, man. I should have done it the first time you told me six years ago. Right. And I think we all, those are regrets in a sense. Cecil Bullard: They could be huge regrets for you. Right? Well, for most of us it's like, oh, I could be further along or whatever. But what if you did it now? Right? What if you knew the wave was coming? What if you planned for the wave? What if you so, so lemme frame the wave. Got the best surfboard. So let's Michael Smith: frame the wave. Michael Smith: The wave is above the beach in terms of size, right? Some of it's dribbling on the beach already. But the reality is it's gonna take 20 to 25 years for that wave to hit the beach, go all the way up land, and then come out with a reformed industry 20 to 25 years. So from that perspective, it's like, okay, so I'm 35 years old. Michael Smith: Where are you gonna be in 20 years? 55 or 25? Cecil Bullard: You're gonna be 60. I got news for you wake up in the morning, you're 60. Yeah. And you look in the mirror and you're like. What happened to that 40-year-old guy that I used to know that had, Michael Smith: you know, more hair, Cecil Bullard: right. You know, et Michael Smith: cetera, et cetera. So my original story about guys like, what the hell am I gonna do? Michael Smith: Retired anyway, right? The young guys that are listening to this and gals that are in your thirties and early forties, there's a window of time here and there's no pressure that we have to get in or get out. Our industry's early in the rollup phase, the consolidation thing will go through four phases. Michael Smith: We're at the beginning of phase two. We don't need to unpack that right now, so, but there's decades to go with this. And so knowing how it works and what's the science and what's the opportunity I'm gonna say this right openly to the marketplace. You guys owe it to yourselves to know what the options, Cecil Bullard: your families, Michael Smith: your, you need to know your wives, and then to decide your husbands yes. Michael Smith: I mean, come on. Joking. The legacy that you leave to your communities, your team, your customers, you, and then when you know, you can decide with education, right? With knowledge. I don't want to be with private equity investors. I do wanna sell to a key employee. I know where Well, why not set Cecil Bullard: that up and make that happen the way you want it to happen? Cecil Bullard: Exactly. Instead of like exactly at the last minute. Go. Oh my God, the company Worth enough. I wish I'd lo love Michael Smith: 75% of privately held business owners. Profoundly regret, you can put that in quotes. 'cause this is profoundly regret the way they exited the business because they did it so poorly. Michael Smith: Within 12 months of exiting the business, three quarters. That's 4 million businesses that will transact and the owners within a year will look back and say, man, I blew that opportunity. So we're saying to you, don't blow it, guys learn. Right? So Cecil Bullard: Think about, I mean, the guys, you put together a come on, Cecil what do you call it? A group of shop owners platform. Platform put together. Yep. You put together a platform. An investment platform. An investment platform with five Yeah. Guys. Sure. With multiple shops. Yeah. And then you went out and you shopped private equity after Yep. Cecil Bullard: Creating the human capital. The other four steps and helping them get there. Yeah. And so I know all those guys, and they're smart guys. There's, there's not like a dumb guy in the group. Right. There's some guys, they're probably not as smart as some of the others, but there's nobody in there that's like, an unlimited genius, right? Cecil Bullard: Like, like, I couldn't do it. They're normal, smart. They're normal, smart guys. They're wise in our industry. Yeah. And by the way. So they woke up one morning and there was millions, and millions in their bank account. Michael Smith: Tended it's not nine. Cecil Bullard: How much fun. How much fun? Are they having now? Right. Cecil Bullard: Still playing in the industry. Right. With millions in their bank accounts. Right. As opposed to No I'm getting towards the end. I haven't built the capital. I haven't built what I need to create the value in my shop. Cecil Bullard: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And now I don't, I'm afraid what happens if I get sick? Or what happens if I can't? Cecil Bullard: Who's gonna take care of me? Which kid am I gonna burden with myself? Right. Or. If there aren't any kids how am I gonna survive the, where do I go with this thing the next 15 years? Or should I just go in the back and shoot my brains out? Right. It's such a different dynamic, right. Cecil Bullard: That it's so opposite. Right. Right. And the it's out there ready to go. Yeah. Right. Michael Smith: Yeah. So I guess that's our point. Maybe if we have a thousand points we've probably made today without knowing it. Yeah. Maybe if there's a point, start thinking about it now. There are methods and tools to use. Michael Smith: Exit strategy comes from what happens after you're gone back up from being done with it to what it takes to be comfortable being done with it, to what you need to get from it, to be able to get to that point. And then we can back up from that vision, if you will, to what you have in your hand today and figure out how do you close that gap in the timeframe that you have to achieve that long-term goal. Michael Smith: And if you wait till the end, you're. Lot less likely to get that done than if you start that thinking right now. Tools are here, processes are here. The people who know how to do it are here. We want to help. We've done it. We're in this industry to help you with this. That's why we're here. So, yeah. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I'm good. I think yeah, I think we made the point, and I think we talked about value and Yeah. Creating what you want and you don't have to build I also want you to know that you don't have to build seven shops. No, you don't. You don't have to be part of a platform. Michael Smith: No, you don't. Cecil Bullard: But run the company that you have Well, as well as you to create opportunities for yourselves and your family and to live well, because when it's all said and done that's what it's all about is well, you Michael Smith: might as well do well doing it. So Cecil Bullard: If you wanna know like. You say to yourselves, well, you guys, you're coaches and of course you believe you're trying to sell us something, or whatever. Right? And yes, obviously that's how I make a living, or we make a living. Cecil Bullard: It's by helping other people, which is I don't know that there's a better place to be, but we have so much information that we don't charge for. We have our YouTube channel. We have our gear for shops.com. In the next slide, there will be a QR code that will get you hooked up. And you don't have to pay us, you don't have to say, oh, Seesaw, I wanna buy a coaching program, or I want to be in one of your programs. Cecil Bullard: Just get as much information as you can and make sure that you are doing the best that you can to move forward. Yeah. And then if you decide, Hey, I would like to have a coach or a coaching company, or somebody help me. We certainly we're here are more than qualified to do that, and we do that routinely with all of the shops, you know, several hundred shops that we work with. Cecil Bullard: So, yep. In the next slide, take a look and at least go look at some of the classes that are free. And I'll help you make profits and help you get outta your own way and move forward. Yeah.

163 - Real Stories, Real Results: Shop Owner Success with The Institute’s Group Process October 22, 2025 - 00:52:00   Show Summary: When shop owners come together, powerful things happen. In this conversation, Jimmy Lea sits down with Jennifer Hulbert, coach and facilitator for The Institute’s Gear Performance Group, and Cindy Reason, owner of Frontline Automotive in Fairbanks, Alaska, to discuss the impact of coaching, collaboration, and group accountability on shop growth. Cindy shares her journey from mortgage lending to multi-location shop ownership, crediting the power of mentorship and peer learning for her success. Jennifer breaks down how the group process works, from financial composites to shop visits, and why accountability is the secret weapon of top-performing shops. Together, they explore how trust, training, and teamwork can reshape the reputation of the automotive industry and empower every shop to thrive.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Jennifer Hulbert, Head Facilitator & Coach for The Institute // Shop Owner of Service Plus Automotive   Show Highlights: [00:01:03] - Jennifer explains how “delegate and elevate” allows her to lead effectively while managing multiple roles. [00:07:04] - Cindy Reason reveals her new second shop and how she’s expanding into fleet work with FedEx and Amazon trucks. [00:08:26] - The story of how Cindy and her husband transitioned from mortgage lending and gold mining into auto repair. [00:13:20] - A turning point at a NAPA Expo where Cindy connects with a coach who helps her master shop financials. [00:15:06] - Why getting a coach early saves money and accelerates shop success. [00:17:34] - Inside look at how group visits provide honest feedback and actionable insight for shop improvement. [00:18:19] - Cindy explains how learning accountability in her group changed how she manages her team. [00:26:32] - Jennifer breaks down the full structure of the Gear Performance Group program, from shop reviews to training and composites. [00:37:15] - The value of DVIs for building customer trust and transparency, not just for selling more services. [00:48:03] - Cindy and Jennifer share how collaboration, friendship, and peer support drive industry-wide growth and elevate standards.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Good morning, my friend. It's good to see you. Good to be here with you at this fabulous Wednesday webinar Wednesday. And here we are with the Leading Edge podcast and webinar. This is the webinar portion of what we're doing. I'm so excited to be here with you. I'm so excited for our conversation today as we talk about. Jimmy Lea: Reaching out, locking arms. Locking arms with our neighbors and our friends so that we can together elevate this industry and make it better. Jennifer is a coach and trainer here with the Institute. She's the one of the head facilitators for the Gear Performance Group and has been with the industry for a very long time. Jimmy Lea: You have a shop in New York? Jennifer Hulbert: I do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. What's your shop in Newark? How, what's the footprint of that look like? Jennifer Hulbert: Service plus automotive, we have four technicians. One current location we're discussing becoming an MSO, so an exciting time for us. Jimmy Lea: Nice. And how do you find time to run the shop as well as all the coaching and training and travel and visits that happen with the GPG? Jimmy Lea: How do you do all that? Jennifer Hulbert: Well, I follow the GPG advice and I delegate and elevate. So I've got a fantastic staff here that handles the majority of the day-to-day activities and elevated them into positions that they can take on that responsibility. And we're just kicking butt. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Jimmy Lea: Jennifer, there is a shop I'm aware of that's for sale that you might be interested in. We're gonna have to have a conversation. I'll send you over some details on that one. Jennifer Hulbert: Okay, sounds good. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, very cool. And joining as well. Today is Cindy Riesen. Cindy is from Alaska, the great state of Alaska. Jimmy Lea: Absolutely gorgeous. I was there in February, which, that's the cold time, Cindy. It's a cold time. It was my birthday. In fact, I was there in February. I got snowed out in Las Vegas. Had to drive to Los Angeles to catch a flight to get up into Anchorage, Alaska. I barely made it in time for that NAPA Auto Care conference next morning. Jimmy Lea: That's right. You remember that? I was on. I do. Cindy Reason: Yeah. Everybody was wonder Were gonna make it. We were watching the weather and everything. Jimmy Lea: Well, to be snowed, I was snowed out in Las Vegas. The irony is I'm stuck Vegas because it's snowing. I'm trying to go to Alaska. Oh my gosh. That was hilarious. Yeah. Cindy Frontline Automotive are, you are in Fairbanks, right? Cindy Reason: I'm in Fairbanks, which is the center of the state when we're considered the Golden, golden state. Golden city of the state. Yes. So the golden heart of Alaska. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Well, here I was there in February and it was gorgeous. I was. So I've gotta get there in the summer when things are blooming because if it's gorgeous, when there's snow everywhere and the trees are there, it's gotta be just outstanding in the summer Cindy Reason: and you need to get into the center of the state. Cindy Reason: Anchorage is nothing compared to. The Fairbanks area. I just, I'm a little biased, but you know. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You know, you know, there was once upon a time that I was driving a sprinter van all over the world and we had plans. We had plans. I was coming to Alaska. Cindy Reason: And you didn't make it. Jimmy Lea: Didn't make it. Plans got thwarted. Jimmy Lea: But that's, yeah. When things go, you know, we make our plans and then God says, Cindy Reason: ha's cute. I got a joke for you. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Wait until you see what's next. No, that's very cool. That's very cool. Well, I'm glad you're here. And Cindy, Jimmy Lea: What is the current look of your shop right now? What does that look like? Jimmy Lea: Like Jennifer's got the Fourex. Are you at? Cindy Reason: Yep. So we are a little bit different. We've got three different buildings and our main building is where our office is and in the back of our office is our shop or is our parts room. And then the other two buildings have four bays each. And we have four technicians. Cindy Reason: So each technician gets two bays. We have two alignment racks. You know, everything is set up so that each one runs independently. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Oh, that's great. So as a technician is working on one vehicle, they can have one on the rack. So while they're waiting on parts you're not, you're hopefully not pushing in and out all that. Jimmy Lea: All right. Cindy Reason: In Alaska, you know, we are at the end of the food chain basically, so it takes longer to get parts. So there's times where we're waiting three, four days to get a part. So it's nice to have that option of keeping a vehicle on the rack after it's torn down. Most of the time you always run into something when you tear it down, you think you have everything and then you tear it down and, oh, nope, I don't have this. Cindy Reason: So, Jimmy Lea: oh my gosh. Yeah. Cindy Reason: It's really beneficial to have the two lifts per technician. Jimmy Lea: That's really nice. And three to four days really in the grand scheme. It's not that long. I thought you were gonna be in like one week, two week, three week timelines. Cindy Reason: Well, times where that happens. But we really try to, you know, source as close as possible and. Cindy Reason: As quickly as possible. Jimmy Lea: Well, and John I know I have a real good friend, John via automotive in San Luis Obispo, California. He has more parts in his shop than the local Napa Auto Parts store. Cindy Reason: Oh, wow. If I only had space, Jimmy Lea: well see. Okay. Yeah. Yep. That he has a massive building. Massive building. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I think he's 20 lifts or so, and he's open seven days a week. Oh, wow. You know, when you're open on the weekend, 'cause somebody broke down, you gotta be able to fix it. So he's got almost like one starter, one alternator of 900 million different things. That'll work. Yeah. So I wondered if your parts department, were you, are you pretty loaded or are you pretty light? Jimmy Lea: How do you No Cindy Reason: it's fairly light. We do a lot of chassis work here in Alaska because of our potholes. I went to Boston and Boston's worse. I never thought I'd find a place worse, but Boston was worse. Wow. Wow. But we're really known for our dirt roads, our potholes, you know, and all of that. Cindy Reason: So we do a lot of chassis. So our chassis parts is what we hold onto here. Otherwise it's, we'll get it from our local stores. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And is your part stores, do they keep fairly well stocked 'cause of the distance? Yeah, I would imagine they would. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's Jimmy Lea: cool. Jimmy Lea: Well, so I wanna go Jimmy Lea: with Jimmy Lea: you. I wanna go, Cindy. Jimmy Lea: Oh, sorry, Jimmy Lea: go ahead. Jennifer Hulbert: Cindy's being a little humble. So they now have two locations. So this year they purchased the second location. So she Jimmy Lea: Last month. Jennifer Hulbert: Yes. The footprint we purchased. The second, Jimmy Lea: is it close to. Cindy Reason: It's four miles down the road and and it's all, it's basically the same size. Eight lifts. Cindy Reason: I've got seven technicians over there. And it's a, primarily, we do the FedEx and. Amazon Trucks and trucks. The fleets. Yeah. We do more fleet over there. And that was my biggest reason for buying it was because it wasn't a direct competition to what we do over here at Frontline. So now I'm catering to both into different locations. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's phenomenal. So you got Frontline, a whirlwind That is a whirlwind frontline fleet and Frontline Automotive. Cindy Reason: Yeah, well we kept, we, we kept the name of the other business, what's itseparate? Can you say? Where It's Gabe's Truck and Auto. So we're working on that one. Like I said, we just took it over September 2nd and yeah, it's been very hectic around here. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. And everybody's still friends. We're all still friends. Are everybody still happy? Cindy Reason: Yeah. Yeah. We're still married, my husband and I. Jimmy Lea: That's good news. That's good news. That's going in the right direction. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Well, congrats to that. We'll talk about that here in a second. I want to go back in some time here. Jimmy Lea: 88 miles an hour. Flex Capacitor, DeLorean. Cindy Reason: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: When did you get started in the industry and what does that look like? Cindy Reason: We bought Frontline Automotive in 2019, no, 2017. And before that I was a mortgage loan officer and Oh, we could talk Jimmy Lea: mortgages, Cindy. Cindy Reason: We can no. Jimmy Lea: I had a a season of life. Jimmy Lea: I was a mortgage broker too. Okay. Carry on. Cindy Reason: Yeah. And the reason I'm getting outta that is because everything changes daily. And then my husband, he was working heavy equipment at a gold mine and was gone for a month. Time. He'd gone for a month, home for two weeks, gone for a month, home for two weeks. So a friend of ours said, Hey, I know a business that's opening. Cindy Reason: And we checked into it and got it for a seal and started off with just four bays, two technicians, one building, and grew from there. Jimmy Lea: So you built Cindy Reason: a second building? We were in like a strip mall type. Built four buildings all next to each other. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And so we Cindy Reason: just kept acquiring. So in 2020, when COVID hit the building next to us was a kids' romper room. Cindy Reason: Okay. And they closed because they couldn't have kids in there. Yeah. And so we ended up moving over to that one. And then in 2022 the other building. The peak tenants left, and so we moved over to that one. So we ended up with three and then they demolished the one next to us. So, and then we ended up buying, so more Jimmy Lea: parking, lot Cindy Reason: more. Cindy Reason: That was it. We were not willing to share our parking lot with any other tenants, so we didn't have the space for other tenant or for other tenants to have parking, so Wow. That was what us brought us around to this. Jimmy Lea: Well, congrats. It feels like it was just a heartbeat to ago. 2017 was like two minutes ago, but it's, it Cindy Reason: feels like it Jimmy Lea: eight years ago. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Cindy Reason: Yeah. It's hard to believe that it's been that long. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Time flies. That is fabulous. And congrats on the expansion. It feels like, or sounds like rapid expansion. Cindy Reason: It was, yeah. Ever since 20, since COVID, we've been expanding every two years. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Yeah that, that's awesome. I think I'm Cindy Reason: done for a while. Jimmy Lea: Oh no, you've got 24 months and then we're gonna kick it back on. Wait a second. It's October. You have 23 months. Cindy Reason: No pressure Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: No, none. None whatsoever. But in about 11 months, we'll start looking. Cindy Reason: Okay. You do that. Jimmy Lea: I'll do that. Okay. Well, and congrats on the expansion. That is just absolutely phenomenal. Jimmy Lea: I love the I love the expansion into the fleet industry. I mean, that's, so just, I mean, you're able to work on the same vehicles. You just turn 'em and burn 'em and love it and yeah. Keep on going. So, at what point along your journey here, you're coming from gold mining, heavy equipment, mortgage brokers, lot of paperwork pushing. Jimmy Lea: You jump into automotive and discover very quickly. We're not in Kansas anymore. This is not familiar language. What did you do? Cindy Reason: Especially for me, you know? 'cause my husband's got the. And he understands the business and all of that. So he first, he's the one who started it. He was working it, he was doing the office work. Cindy Reason: He was teching, he was supervising, he was payroll, hr. He was doing all of it. Jimmy Lea: Oh boy. And then Cindy Reason: four months into it, he says, I'm gonna have to hire somebody. And I said, well, I'm not paying somebody to do something I can do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Cindy Reason: So then I took. I quit my job and came over, and then I realized I've never done HR before. Cindy Reason: I've never done payroll. I don't know what these numbers mean, you know? Yeah, I know how to read a p and l, but what does it really mean for the business? So we had gone to a NAPA convention in Vegas, did not get Jimmy Lea: that in the one in 2020. Jimmy Lea: The Expo Cindy Reason: Napa Expo in 20, I think it 2020. Shortly after. Jimmy Lea: Supposed to have it in 20, but they canceled that. And it was in 21, 22. Cindy Reason: No, it was 2017. Okay. The year that we bought it. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Cindy Reason: And they just, they connected us. We were invited by our Napa Auto Care people. Okay. That are local here. Some of our local people here. Cindy Reason: And got us into, we, R-L-R-L-O was presenting. Yep. Jimmy Lea: We went to Cindy Reason: a couple of their meetings and decided, you know, yeah, this is something that could help us. And because of the way that RLO was structured, we couldn't be in a group process because I had too many other people here locally close to me that were in the group. Cindy Reason: Okay. But I did a one-on-one coaching with John Loeffler. He was a lifesaver. He is the reason we were able to do what we're doing every couple years because he taught us everything from our numbers to, to expand you know, to how to bring marketing. Yeah. How to, you know, bring in more customers. It was. Cindy Reason: So one-on-one with John was extraordinary. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Cindy Reason: That was our lifesaver. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can imagine. And Jennifer, you were worked with John Effler for quite a few years as well, didn't you? Jennifer Hulbert: I did almost 20. Jimmy Lea: Oh my, well, that's just a hard thing. We all Jennifer Hulbert: miss him. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John is we wish him well. He's doing great in the industry. Jimmy Lea: He's still with straightaway Auto correct, I believe. Oh, good. Jennifer Hulbert: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Doing. I don't know what he's doing with them. Jennifer, do you know Jennifer Hulbert: he's coaching and training with them. Nice. Yep. Jimmy Lea: Very cool. Very cool. So your advice Cindy, to anybody that's starting a shop would be get a coach as quickly as you can. Cindy Reason: As quickly as you can. The sooner the better, because you're not gonna be wasting money if you're getting the education. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Education. Education, so important. So at what point along the road here did you get into the group? Because I think you're in group. You're in a group right now, aren't you? Cindy Reason: Yep. I'm in Group six with Jennifer. Jimmy Lea: Group six. Okay. Yeah, Cindy Reason: group six, rock there. Jimmy Lea: Definitely. And are Jimmy Lea: we recruiting? We're trying to get more into group six. We have a couple of spaces available, maybe we do. Jimmy Lea: So at what point were you able to transition into the group? Because there are a few others that are there in Fairbanks that are also with the institute that were also with RLO. Jimmy Lea: What, how did that look like Cindy Reason: when they had the summit in 2023? I think it was the 2023 summit. We went to that in Florida. Yep. And I met Jennifer there. That was my first time of meeting her. She said, oh, we've gotta get you into a group. We've gotta get you into a group. And so she did her little magic because she's the queen of magic. Cindy Reason: She can go back into the back and do her thing. And, you know, we're here. So we got the call and saying, you know, inviting us into to one of Jennifer's groups and we jumped on it, you know, and I have no regrets whatsoever. Love our group process. It's totally different than the one-on-one. Cindy Reason: Okay, so one-on-one. You know you're meeting with John once or twice a month depending on what he your needs are. But with the group, you're doing group visits, which I volunteered right away. I said, I want you all to come and tell me what's wrong with my business. Love it. Come share. You know, and so you get the group visits, you get the feedback from the group of what they see as your business, where your books are, where your people are, what your fa, your facility looks like. Cindy Reason: What are your hazards? What are your goods, your bads, your ugly the, that part of the process is my favorite is getting to go and do the visiting of. The shops and seeing how other shops run their business, how they look, how they're set up, and if you come back with ideas of what you can make, little changes to yours as well to improve your business. Jimmy Lea: Nice. So Cindy Reason: that, that is one of the biggest features that I love about the group. Then you also have a composite partner or two? I have two. We meet every week. We go over numbers, we go over homework, we hold each other accountable. You know, we say we're gonna do this, and if it's not done, you get a tongue lashing. Jennifer Hulbert: It's one of my favorite words in the group process is accountability. Accountability. Cindy Reason: And that's something, you know, with a, just a daily coat or just a straight coat, you don't learn that accountability. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And Cindy Reason: that's something I never really understood until Jennifer and the group process. Cindy Reason: And now I'm learning how to hold my staff accountable, and that is making a huge difference in, but then teaching me how to hold me accountable. I'm now teaching them how to hold them accountable. So it's a domino effect. Jennifer Hulbert: Well, and you have more people involved on a regular basis. So the group process typically has, you know, 16 to 20 members in it. Jennifer Hulbert: So you're not only listening to one coach or one shop owner, you're getting the feedback of. Multiplied that by 16 times and the ideas and that the history and what they've learned going through different processes. So it's almost like having your own board of directors that you can access for any time, any problem, any question, and getting some good sound advice from multiple people. Jennifer Hulbert: That's why the group process works so well. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah I've heard it. Where a group member will bring into the group and say, oh my gosh, there, there's this huge red tape. It's this giant mountain. It's it, I don't even know how I'm gonna get over it. This is such a big thing. Help me. I'm paralyzed. I don't know what to do. Jimmy Lea: And the group comes together and says, okay, well, Joe had this problem two years ago, and Cindy had this problem last year, but Jennifer solved it just a couple months ago. So here's his experience. Here's this experience, here's this experience, and it brings that mountain down to a mole hill very quickly where the group can say, all right, Jimmy, we got this. Jimmy Lea: Come on you. You've already got that solved. That was yesterday. Let's go more to do. Cindy Reason: Let's go. Move on. Yeah, exactly. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. So even when you go visit other shops, you come away with value that says, I need to look at this in my shop, this in my shop, this in my shop, to make sure that I'm optimized as well. Jimmy Lea: Right. How many times did you go out and visit other shops before they actually came to Alaska to visit you? Cindy? Cindy Reason: I think there was only two shops before. One shot before me. One or two? Jimmy Lea: One or two visits Cindy Reason: actually, yeah. One or two visits before me. Actually, I think it was just one. Joined last, it was Eptember. Cindy Reason: They came here and I joined in May. I think of. 23. Jennifer Hulbert: 23. Yeah. So there would've been three. Cindy Reason: So, so there'd been Yeah. A couple of them. Yep. But yeah it was, you know, it was nice to do that a little bit before mine so that I kind of had an idea of what I was needing to get prepared for. Also, you know, you wanna prepare, but you also want 'em to see this is the life here. Cindy Reason: Yeah. So you don't wanna hide things or, you know, you can't hide things because they really do dive deep. Yeah. And they talk, you know, they talk to your employees and your employees usually feel pretty good about opening up to other people versus you know, yourself. So it's a really nice process. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Jimmy Lea: I love. The coaching process leading into the group process because it allows you the opportunity to get your data in order to have it, yeah, pump in the right information, the right order, the right way, so that when you do get into the group process and you're opening up your books to everybody. It's not as embarrassing. Cindy Reason: Everybody under Well, and everybody understands them. Jimmy Lea: Everybody understands because I think there's a few shops that I can think of that it had, they gone directly into the group environment. Their p and l was so bad that Oh, yeah. Holding 'em accountable to a level that they didn't understand yet. Jimmy Lea: It would've been embarrassing and they probably would've left the group and never come back. Cindy Reason: Yeah I could see where that would happen and thankfully I had John working with me ahead of time, so Jimmy Lea: yeah. So you were ready? I was already Cindy Reason: at standards. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You were there, you were ready, prepared to go into that group environment. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And it's just awesome that they were able to come and visit your shop too when they left. How many. Items items, how much stuff did they say, Hey, look at this. What, think about this. What did your action look like when they left? Cindy Reason: We're still a year out and I'm still working on it, Cindy Reason: but you know, a lot of it just minor little tweaks. Sure. And I had very old buildings and so there was a lot of things that I already knew about, you know, that I have to work on. You just gotta take a little piece at a time and dwindle it down. Yes, but never looking at that action. That's the key. You gotta continually look at it and take something off of it, you know, and work your way through it. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Here's a year later and you're still working on, that's phenomenal. Jennifer, talk about the G. Talk about the GPG program. Jennifer, what? What is this? Why is it so powerful? This group environment? Jennifer Hulbert: Well, the structure of the program is exactly what Cindy had, said is we have three in-person meetings a year, so we actually go to one of the member shops. Jennifer Hulbert: Part of that meeting, or part one of those days is evaluating the shop. So we're breaking into four different teams. Those four teams are facility, so looking at anything facility, brick and mortar. Office admin. So we're looking at office systems, SOPs, personnel files, parts handling, marketing anything that would be office related. Jennifer Hulbert: We have an RO audit team who does a deep dive. They actually audit 50 repair orders. Looking for things like proper gross profit, percentages on parts and labor, proper documentation of the three Cs. The DVI process and following the 300% rule. And then we have a personnel team. So each member of the HO Shop team is interviewed and we're looking for things like regular communication. Jennifer Hulbert: Do they have quarterly conversations and quarterly reviews? Do they have team meetings? Is there a path set up for success for each individual employee? Our goal shared th things of those nature just to, to help increase the overall communication with the entire shop. So. Typically when a member comes in, they're in the process for two to three years before they host a shop review. Jennifer Hulbert: And that's done strategically to make sure that the host shop knows what they're getting into knows exactly what they're their, their expectations are, but also that we are looking and digging deep into that shop's review so we're not talking about the same items at every shop review, and that's the expectation. Jennifer Hulbert: Is you're going through these, you know, two years, so maybe six or seven shop reviews where you're a participant and now they're coming to your shop. So you're knowing what they're looking for, and the expectation is that every time you come back from a group meeting, you're making those improvements in your shop. Jennifer Hulbert: So we're not discussing those same things every time we go to a host shop. So that's the shop review process and the other. A day and a half of the meeting is training. So currently, Aaron Woods and I are the two group facilitators and we're providing training in every area marketing, DVI, scheduling and dispatching, employee relations, marketing financial forecasting. Jennifer Hulbert: So we look at what our members are needing within the group process and then creating training around that need to make sure that we're elevating our members. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. Jennifer Hulbert: In addition to the shop review, we have a financial composite. So each member is entering their financial data into a portal, and that portal takes that information and breaks it down into many different ways. Jennifer Hulbert: So we're measuring things like gross profit percentages, effective labor rate expense percentage to get to what our desired net profit is. And my groups know, and I say this every single time we do a composite review, the most important number to me is net profit. Yes, it matters how we get there, but if you're a 20, 25% net profit shop, then we have very small tweaks to do. Jennifer Hulbert: If you come in and you're a 2% net profit shop, well, we've got a lot of work to do to get sales in line expenses in line and gross profit percentages in line. So we're looking at the financial data to preserve the overall financial health of the business, and then the members and the group facilitator are holding those members accountable to those standards. Jennifer Hulbert: And like Cindy explained, you know, you have a composite partner that you're meeting with. It's required monthly. Most of our shops are meeting weekly and they're holding each other accountable. So it's not coming from the talking head at the front of the room. You know, the teacher in a classroom setting, it's coming from their peers. Jennifer Hulbert: And their peers are doing the exact same type of work that each member is doing. So sometimes that peer-to-peer accountability can carry more weight than a facilitator or a coach because there's no excuses to give to a peer because they are doing the exact same business and the exact same work that, that the member is on a day-to-day basis. Jennifer Hulbert: So anyone who's talked to me about the group process knows how passionate I am about it because I was a group member. I started in, I'm gonna date myself here, 2004, and with John Loeffler and RO training transitioned into the institute and had the opportunity to become a group facilitator. And I love the process because we see people coming into the process with limited knowledge on certain areas, and then watching their business grow and expand, just like Cindy's has this past year that wouldn't. Jennifer Hulbert: Maybe it would've been possible, it probably wouldn't have been possible without the knowledge of training and coaching just quickly. Right. So the, just watching members grow and succeed and help each other is very rewarding. And one of the. The pieces that I just absolutely love the most. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. And hey, you know, and let's open this up to the audience. Anybody listening, if you've got questions for Jennifer or you got questions for Cindy, go ahead and type them in the comments and we'll address each one of your questions. Some of the questions I have you talked about some of these shops. Jimmy Lea: Wait. Back up man. My mind's going 90 miles an hour. So I think the only correct answer is this, is, it depends, but I'm gonna pose this to both of you, Cindy and Jennifer. If a shop comes to and joins the gear performance group and they're at a two to 3% net profit area, or maybe they're at 7% net profit, how quickly do they transition from two to three to 23 or 22 or 20? Jimmy Lea: How quickly does do they make that transition? Jennifer Hulbert: So I'm gonna say it depends on how quickly the member is able to make the improvements they need to make. Yeah. So if you're listening to the advice, you are, you're taking the feedback and you are making the needed changes, you're gonna move pretty quickly. Jennifer Hulbert: Again. Net profit comes from sales, gross profit and expense control. Yes. So if you are at a low level of sales and we don't have a, you know, a lot of sales being generated, we can have a very high gross profit percentage, but we're not out running our expenses 'cause we're at below a break even. So that would be an area that we would focus on marketing and the DVI process and the sales process. Jennifer Hulbert: To make sure that we can increase our sales level. Shops coming in who have high expenses and low gross profit percentages, that's typically a pretty easy way or an easy thing to fix is, you know, we implement a parts matrix, we implement a labor matrix or a labor rate increase, and just have that increase of profitability pretty instantaneously. Jennifer Hulbert: So it does depend on the situation, but there is an answer that the group and the facilitator can absolutely help with if the member's gonna take the feedback and they're going to enact on the information. Jimmy Lea: And Jennifer, I think that's exactly the right answer. It does depend. It depends on the person. Jimmy Lea: Will they implement or not. Jimmy Lea: Are they Jimmy Lea: just gonna gather the information, get the inspiration, and never do anything with it? Or will they do something with it? Alright. Well, and that Jennifer Hulbert: typically doesn't last long in the group process because the members are saying, we've been there, we've done this, and what you think is going to happen, like labor rate increases. Jimmy Lea: Right? Jennifer Hulbert: You know? You know, there's no way I can raise my labor rate by $10. Well, I did it. I did it. I did it. Hands go up in the room and nothing happened from a customer standpoint. So yes, you can go back to your shop and do it, and now you're getting that peer-to-peer accountability and not just the a coach or a facilitator. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Cindy, do you have a story about raising your labor? Cindy Reason: Not so much on me. But we do have a member that we have. Quite a long time, ever since I started. Jimmy Lea: Okay. And Cindy Reason: they finally did it. And he did it in a big jump too. It wasn't just the five or 10, I think he went up 20 bucks and he came back and said, you know, finally and said nobody said anything. Cindy Reason: We said, see, we told to, so just do it. Yeah. So, and you know, that was the whole entire group. Coaching and giving him the power, you know, trying to give him the power to do that, it's not gonna hurt you. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Cindy Reason: So, Jimmy Lea: yeah. So I wanna lay a little foundation here because a lot of people will hear this and they'll say, oh, well, all I have to do is just raise my labor rate. Jimmy Lea: Is that true, Jennifer? Jennifer Hulbert: No. To become profitable? No. Is that all they have to do? 'cause what I also said was making sure that you're, you have good gross profit percentages and expense control. You. You can have great sales and great gp, but then spend it all out the back door and you're still left with very limited net. Jennifer Hulbert: So part of our composite reporting is looking at, oh, I don't know how many. 40 points of expense categories. And making sure that not only is your total expense within. Range, but also each individual expense. 'cause we have benchmarks for that. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jennifer Hulbert: So if we get a member, again, the power of the peer group is saying, well, there's no way that, that I can, you know, decrease my dues and subscriptions from this to this. Jennifer Hulbert: Well now we have a group average of this is the amount of dollars that the majority of the group is paying, or this is the percentage of their sales that they're paying. So yes, you can, you just need to be diligent and follow. Within a certain guideline. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you really can't pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Jimmy Lea: Everybody is marching the same direction and they're not gonna let you do it. Correct. Oh, I love it. And I also love that with the institute we'll analyze your business to say what kind of business do you want? Depending on the kind of business that you want, da, and down the road, and how many vacations do you want? Jimmy Lea: And what kind of pay do you want? And how do you wanna take care of your employees? And what kind of benefits do you want for your employees? Okay, well here's what you're charging today. And you know, if you just tweak it a little bit, you can do it. Or maybe you have to tweak it a lot and then you can do it. Jimmy Lea: And maybe it's a huge jump that you have to take in phases. Because it takes a little bit of time to go from wherever you are today to where you need to be to operate the business that you want to have. So it's not always, yeah, it's not always about just, oh, raise your labor rate and everything's fine. Jimmy Lea: No. There's so much more that goes into it, but nobody ever wants to talk about that. All these coaching companies are out there and say, so, raise your labor rate. Raise your rate. Rate, charge for shop supplies and LA raise your labor rate. Okay, but there's more to it than that. Jennifer Hulbert: Well, again, some of the things that I've already mentioned are the DVI process. Jennifer Hulbert: Are we identifying the work to be completed? Are we estimating it? Are we presenting it? And are we having success with turning that into a repair? Yes. Marketing are we attracting the right client into our shop? So it's more than just pricing, it's the overall shop management and running of the shop. Jennifer Hulbert: You know, do you have a service advisor on the front counter who is. Is pleasant from a customer service standpoint and saying yes to customers or are they driving people away? So these are all things that we look at. We train on, we create an owner's job description for the owner to have their own self accountability with. Jennifer Hulbert: I am going to listen to phone calls. I am gonna do DVI audits. I am going to do RO audits. I am gonna look at my profitability. So, and. And again, then you've got the peer-to-peer accountability on top of that. I'm becoming a broken record right now, but you can see how it all works all together. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it does. Jimmy Lea: And it's talking about the DVI Jennifer, you have a DVI that you work in your shops. What are you using? Jennifer Hulbert: I have tech metric from I using the tech metric, Jimmy Lea: DVI as well. Jennifer Hulbert: I am using a tech metric, Cindy Reason: DVI. Jimmy Lea: All right. Cindy, what are you doing? Cindy Reason: Oh my, yeah. Tech metric as well. Jimmy Lea: Nice. I, but here's my advice because I pounded this drum for four years with when I was with auto vitals and doing digital vehicle inspections. Jimmy Lea: But, and here's my conclusion from it all, every shop needs to do with DBI, whatever program that you work that works in your shop, that follows your process, your procedure that you are able to implement and that the technicians will use and use and document. Is what you should implement in your shop, whether it is tech metric or auto vitals, or any of the other Ds. Jimmy Lea: If it's a program that your shop will utilize and use and implement and follow. That's the program that's best for you. Jennifer Hulbert: And we get the question a lot of, you know, why are we doing the DVI? It's just to sell more services. Jimmy Lea: It's Jennifer Hulbert: absolutely not to sell more services. It is to create trust and transparency with our customers. Jimmy Lea: Yes. 'cause Jennifer Hulbert: as the auto industry, we don't have the best reputation, but the trust level and the general consumer is pretty low when it comes to auto repair. So. We are absolutely innovating the industry in within the group process to make sure that we are putting out the reason why and showing the customer, this is your vehicle. Jennifer Hulbert: We're not making this up. Here's a picture of your actual vehicle with the actual part and explanation as to why it fails. So yes, everyone, if that's your takeaway today. Get a DVI process DV in place. Jimmy Lea: I totally agree. I've got a quick story and then I want to hear one from each of you as well. I was auditing a shop and we were looking at their dvs, and this is way back in the day, and the technician had said to, in the DVI need to replace the battery. Jimmy Lea: No other reasons. It may have been in the description that it said three 30 cranking amps, and it was supposed to be a 600 cranking amp cold crank amp battery. And there was no picture. They had already sent it to the customer. The customer denied it. And I said to the owner, I says, Hey, you know, talk to the techs. Jimmy Lea: If you can get a picture of the little report, the readout that shows they're really close. They're one cold snap away from being stuck in that parking lot. And the technician took a picture of that. They sent it to the client. Client approved it right then and there. Have you ever had a situation where by documenting and showing the customer, this is your vehicle, this is your part, this is what's leaking, worn, torn F freight or broken. Jimmy Lea: This is what you are seeing. Whether you have me fix it or not doesn't matter to me, but you need to be taking care of your vehicle. Have you had a situation where you were surprised how quickly it turned around that the client did approve all the work that needed to be done to be safe on the roads? Jimmy Lea: Cindy, you first and then Jennifer, you, Cindy Reason: we had a customer who had just come, had his vehicle at a brand X shop. Three, four months prior to bringing it to us. And he had all new ball joints, all new sway arms, all of that kind of stuff put in at the Brand X. But he was having issues with tire wear and what have you. Cindy Reason: So he brought it into us and we did the DVI on it and his ball joints from that, that, and, you know, you can't tell me that they're bad. I just had 'em fixed. Well, no here, you know, and so my guys took a video. Of that movement and said, this is not how it's supposed to be. And that's, you know. Then he ended up going back to the other shop, but that's just fine. Cindy Reason: It's under warranty. Yes. But he understood that we were not trying to sell him a line. We showed him that they are bad. You need to take it back to brand X and have the warranty in. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Cindy Reason: But then we get all his business after that because we showed him the DVI. Oh, I love it. We built trust that DVI built the trust. Jimmy Lea: Yes. So he Cindy Reason: did get it taken care of there because it was under warranty and I don't blame him, but we've had him ever since. Jimmy Lea: And that's the Paul Harvey. I wanted to know the rest of the story. The rest of the story. The rest of the story is that he came back to you and has been a faithful customer ever since. Jimmy Lea: Yep. I love that. Jimmy Lea: Jennifer, you have A-A-D-V-I story. Jennifer Hulbert: I plenty of stories similar to Cindy. The one that I tell most often is when we went from the paper forms, so the ones that the technicians would actually click off to the DVI, we started to take pictures of fluids. And I had been talk, I was a service advisor at the time, and this was long time ago. Jennifer Hulbert: And I'd been talking to this customer that you're gonna keep the vehicle, your goal is to have the vehicle reach 250,000 miles. So these fluid services are needed. Your fluids are dirty. I never had a picture to show him. Jimmy Lea: Yes, first Jennifer Hulbert: digital vehicle inspection we did. We provided a picture and he calls me up and he is like, I wanna do all my fluids. Jennifer Hulbert: Like, you know that these are the same services that we've been talking about for a year. Correct? The same exact services. Yeah. In 10 years we've been talking Jimmy Lea: about this, Jennifer Hulbert: but because he had a picture and he could see clean versus compromised or dirty or the test strip, then he wanted to do all the services because his vehicle needed it and because we had a picture. Jennifer Hulbert: It was more convincing. So yes, I, and plenty of more stories like Cindy had said, where you have a video or a picture of something, you're like, oh, you know that leak is really bad. I can see it now. And there is movement in that component, so, absolutely. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. I had I was taking my truck into the shop. Jimmy Lea: They were always, they always did the DVI on it, and they always, you know, everything was approved on it. And so I really took really good care of my truck. And then finally one of this times Cody comes in. He's just so excited to show me that I need new shocks. Struts all the way around on the truck 'cause they're starting to seep. Jimmy Lea: He was like, oh look. See I have a picture. I have a picture. Jimmy Lea: I was Jimmy Lea: like, oh crap. Alright. Guess it's approved, but I can't pay for it today. Gotta do that on the next trip. Jimmy Lea: I was like, $1,200. I just didn't have that on me. Oh yeah. So we, I had to come back and we did it the next. Oil change and I was driving so much that it was only another two months and I was back in for my 5,000 mile service. Jimmy Lea: So not a big deal. But the DDIs man, that What a great tool. Build Cindy Reason: the trust. Yeah. Build the trust between you and your customers. Jimmy Lea: It really does. It really does. Oh, and at the shops, a lot of shops that I talk to, Jennifer, when we talk about changing all the fluid fluids. We called that a royal flush. Jennifer Hulbert: Yes. Jimmy Lea: All the fluids. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's phenomenal. And to have a truck go 250,000. I was 2 25 and I sold it. I shouldn't have, I really wish I would've kept it, but nevermind. Water under the bridge. We'll get another truck later. Cindy Reason: It's gone. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Get it back. Probably not. Cindy Reason: You don't need it back. You don't need it back, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: No, I don't. And I'm now living in an area where it's gonna snow and I'm gonna need four wheel drive and it was a two wheel drive truck. Cindy Reason: So yeah, no tires, two wheel drive. Yeah I drove a two wheel drive for years. So it allows, it can be done. Cindy Reason: Yes, it can be done. Jimmy Lea: And I've done it. Ride Cindy Reason: tires, Jimmy Lea: I've done it. And I had I had I had Nat King tires on it that you could put the studs into it. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Jimmy Lea: But I never did. I, it was just, it just looked like meaty mud tires on a two wheel drive truck. Oh, so much fun. So much fun. Well, I love the group process. Jimmy Lea: I love that you have been in there, Cindy, and it has just been such a boon to your business. And Jennifer, thank you for facilitating these these group processes and meeting with these shops and the shop owners. The exponential growth is so wonderful. It's just phenomenal. I love seeing that growth. Jimmy Lea: And these shops they really do bond together. I've seen those that are in these groups. Bond tighter than family. They would rather go on vacations with their composite partners or their group members than they would to go with their brothers or sisters or family. I've seen it. I've witnessed, Jennifer Hulbert: well, I'm part of that when I belong to group two, I still vacation with some of the group two members, or we'll go to meetings early and just to do some social fun things. Jennifer Hulbert: So, Cindy and I were very fortunate to get to spend some time together in California last January. Yep. Had a lot of fun on the beach and so absolutely those bonds are built and they last They are, Jimmy Lea: yeah. And only Alaska and New York could go to California in January on the beach. I think it was Cindy Reason: hot Capri and shorts. Jimmy Lea: I would've froze. I'm a desert. I'm a desert guy, so I like the heat and yeah, that would've just killed me, but you guys, oh gosh, that's fun. That's very Cindy Reason: cool. We had our feet in the water, didn't we? We did pictures to prove it. Jimmy Lea: That is awesome. That is so cool. So cool. Very cool. Well, Jennifer and Cindy, I wanna land this plane and talk about if you were able to change anything in the industry. Jimmy Lea: Magic wand, you can't wish for more wishes. What would you wish for? That would be a change in the industry. Jennifer, you first, and then Cindy to you, Jennifer Hulbert: that there is power in collaboration with other shop owners. We have even people who are new to our coaching program or the group process thinking, well, I'm coming in and I don't know anything and I'm gonna be such a sponge. Jennifer Hulbert: But yet. They turn out to be the expert in an area. So everyone has experiences that other people are going to benefit from. So don't be intimidated by the group process. Don't be intimidated by coaching. You're gonna network, you're gonna create that bond and that. Accountability between you and some other owners. Jennifer Hulbert: So that, that would be my magic wand is to sprinkle that fairy dust all over everyone and say, come into the process, because you really do improve your business exponentially very quickly. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it's, it is eliminating the fear. Jennifer Hulbert: Yes. Jimmy Lea: Don't be afraid. Come joy, come check it out. Come enjoy. I think once somebody attends. Jimmy Lea: A group event. You can't get 'em away. Cindy Reason: There's no turning back. No, there's no turning back. Cindy Reason: Go ahead, Jennifer Hulbert: Jen. I actually had that experience last week. We had a coaching client who was just coming to check out the group meeting at Group five. And his words at the very end is, I'm in, I am not missing this opportunity ever again. Like, I want in, I want part of this process. Nothing's gonna hold me back now. Jennifer Hulbert: And my fear is gone. Jimmy Lea: Wow. That is phenomenal. Jennifer Hulbert: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That is very cool. Jennifer. Thank you. Okay. Cindy Reason: To follow up with that, you know, on the 2023 with the expo that we went to the summit there were group members from other groups, and this is before I was in a group that actually, you know, came to over and pulled my husband and I into. Cindy Reason: Their circle. You know, everybody is willing to help everybody whether you're in their group or not. And I've made some really close friends that are in other groups just from the summit and some of the other functions that we do, as Jimmy Lea: I love it, a Cindy Reason: whole collaboration. And these people are phenomenal that are in these group processes. Cindy Reason: My biggest takeaway on it would be, I wish if I had my wish that the automotive industry did not have such a bad rap, that we didn't have to struggle and fight to prove ourselves, but. I also feel that makes us a stronger community and a stronger business because we are fighting our way through that stigmatism, you know, and proving to our community that we are here for you and we're here to take care of you in an honest, open fashion. Cindy Reason: So I Jimmy Lea: love that. Cindy Reason: That's my biggest thing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Is to spread that influence and elevate the industry as a whole. Another higher level. Oh, I love that. Thank you. Thank you. That's very powerful. Very powerful. Thank you very much, Cindy. Thank you very much, Jennifer. Really appreciate your insight and your input today as we talk about those things that are challenging us as an industry, challenging the automotive aftermarket, and those of you who are listening, whether you are here live or you're listening to the recording, if you've heard something that is fascinating and interesting and something that you would really like to grab a hold of and evaluate more. Jimmy Lea: Come visit us at, we are the institute.com. That's the institute that's as a group. We have advisor, program managers, program coaching programs, gear programs group programs. And then also legacy, if you're looking for legacy like Cindy and Jennifer are at expanding the Kingdom and becoming a multiple shop operator. Jimmy Lea: We've got programs to be able to help you out. People that have been down that path before, they can come back and guide you so that you don't make the same mistakes they do. Or if you do come across those speed bumps, they're not as traumatic as you think they are. So if you're seeing hearing something here that you like, you'd like to know more, visit us at. Jimmy Lea: We are the institute.com. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute and this is the Leading Edge podcast webinar and we'll see you guys again soon. Thank you very much. Get out your cell phones because right after this 30 seconds we're gonna show a QR code scan that QR code that'll set us up with a meeting. Jimmy Lea: We can sit down and evaluate your business to see what the institute can do to help you elevate your business as well. We'll talk to you again soon. Jennifer, Cindy, Jimmy Lea: thank you very much.

162 - A Coach’s Perspective: Why the Service Advisor Is the Most Important Role in the Shop October 15, 2025 - 01:00:44   Show Summary: Front counter, center stage. Kent Bullard and coach Aldo Gomez break down why the service advisor is the shop’s heartbeat, fielding fires, translating tech talk, and guiding customers with clarity. Aldo shares how accountability, preparation, and smart communication turn “good” into “great,” plus the simple rituals that keep him sharp under pressure. They explore preventing burnout by knowing what to do and writing everything down so nothing slips. Expect practical tactics for aligning with technicians through respect and clear expectations. Newer advisors get a confidence roadmap for earning credibility without pretending to be the expert. The episode closes with how peer groups and roundtables build options, not excuses, so advisors can act with calm and consistency.   Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute   Guest(s): Aldo Gomez, Coach at The Institute   Show Highlights: [00:02:20] – Aldo describes the service advisor as the hub of information connecting customers, technicians, and owners. [00:04:28] – The difference between good and great advisors comes down to initiative and continuous learning. [00:06:08] – Aldo recalls practicing service scripts in his parts-room days, long before he became an advisor. [00:08:32] – Great advisors take accountability instead of blaming customers or circumstances. [00:13:33] – Advisors get “tired” when they don’t know what to do—clarity and process prevent burnout. [00:17:09] – Aldo’s daily rituals and note systems keep him organized and confident at the counter. [00:20:44] – “If it’s not written down, it didn’t happen.” How documentation builds clear communication. [00:25:47] – Appreciation and empathy are key to getting technicians to collaborate. [00:31:41] – Small habits like greeting customers warmly and staying physically healthy make lasting impacts. [00:49:30] – Advice for young advisors on building credibility and confidence with customers.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Kent Bullard: Hello everybody. I'm Kent Bullard and I can't tell you how excited I am to host this week's leading edge. We've got quite a show today for you. We're gonna be covering why the service advisor is the most important role in the shop. That's the assertion from our very own Aldo Gomez. Today what we really wanna focus on is what the importance of the service advisor role really is. Kent Bullard: Cover some of the real challenges that advisors face daily and how growth practice, peer learning can drive confidence, can improve performance. So I wanna start off with what's, think back or think to your team, think to your experience. What is one of the first words that comes to your mind when you think of either your experience as a service advisor and the pastor or your service advisor today? Kent Bullard: As you guys answer that question, I'd love to introduce Aldo Gomez. He's based out of San Diego. He brings 12 years worth of real hands-on experience into the industry. Started as a shuttle driver, moving through parts and service advising, and eventually stepping into the leadership and coaching role. Kent Bullard: What really stands out about Aldo is his grounded, practical approach. I mean, he's very pragmatic. I've loved working with him. He's lived life at the front counter and knows the daily challenges that our advisors face, and he can bring that real world understanding into every coaching conversation that he has. Kent Bullard: He's also bilingual, which is awesome because he is fluent in both English and Spanish, which allows 'em to help even more shops, managers, and teams grow through better communication and connection. Aldo's focus areas include service advising operations, leadership and helping businesses scale. And I'm excited to dive into the, his perspective on this. Kent Bullard: Why the service advisor truly is the most important role in the shop. So you've worked at. The front counter. You've lived it. What do you, what made you realize like how critical that advisor role really is to the shop success? Aldo Gomez: Well, let me start by asking you, this is when something doesn't go correctly with the customer's experience at your shop, who's most likely the person that they're gonna turn to of what went wrong? Kent Bullard: Well, that's the owner, right? Aldo Gomez: Definitely not unless your owner is working the front counter every day. Kent Bullard: Well, you know, we've seen it. A lot of owners tend to try to, you know, they work behind the front counter a lot of the times, but no. It's the service advisor that deals with most of these challenges face first, so to speak. Kent Bullard: Then that's, you Aldo Gomez: know, that's one of our question based selling methods right there, right? By asking a question about who would get who would be held responsible or accountable for that. And also by, if you take a step back from the service advisor position, you can see that the service advisors a natural hub of all information, whether parts are arriving for a job that they're waiting to get done, a technician wants clarification on what's the next step or what they do wanna move forward on the owner asking the service advisor or maybe congratulating the service advisor on a great profit margin that week. Aldo Gomez: Or maybe a not so positive conversation of what happened to profit margin that week, or a customer's calling on the phone and that you just did repair work on their vehicle. They're experiencing some kind of issues with the recent repair and they want to talk to you. Aldo Gomez: Right? So Aldo Gomez: all of these things that are going on in the environment, you are a hub of information. Kent Bullard: I like the idea of calling it the hub. Right. And you said a few very important things. One, just information on the customer, the vehicle what's being done on the vehicle. You talked about connection between the customer and the technician and the owner and management of the shop. Kent Bullard: Communication between all of those crucial roles and also putting out the fires that can happen. Aldo Gomez: Correct. Kent Bullard: So. What do you believe in your experience? 'cause we've got really good advisors. We work with a lot of them. We also work with a lot of really great advisors. What do you think separates a good advisor from a great advisor? Aldo Gomez: The a good from great would be how much action you take on your own, for your own satisfaction of knowing how well or how much better or efficient you wanna get at this position. So someone could be really good naturally, probably what brings you to a lot of good is that you have a really great people skills. Aldo Gomez: You have a basic understanding of what you need to do. You're intelligent. However, sometimes that may be okay with you to just be good. To be good at it. However, if you wanna move on to great, then there's plenty of resources for you too. You just have you, that's what separates one from the other, is that one is good, is not good enough, great is what they want to be. Kent Bullard: Can you think of maybe a time back in the day when you were kind of first in the trenches that, you know, was there an experience or situation that differentiated where you were like, Hey, and maybe you look back and go, actually, that was that defining moment where I went from being a good advisor to a great one. Aldo Gomez: It was my eagerness to wanna be coached. I started at the, I started at the, when I was in the parts room, I really. They would, in the parts room, they would, these consultants would show up and then they would meet with each service advisor. Aldo Gomez: And I Aldo Gomez: remember getting a hold of their presentation of how they wanted us to answer the phone. Aldo Gomez: Well, not me, because I was in the parts, but I saw what the service advisors got and they would leave them lying around and I would take them and I would practice the presentation myself. And I also I also really wanted to be coached by somebody. I saw them come in. I thought about how cool it was to get to learn something at work. Aldo Gomez: So you, Aldo Gomez: what Kent Bullard: kind of weird personality do you have? I can't tell you. It's, it is really refreshing. And it's not uncommon actually. You know, I was just at Euro train and we had a lot of people there. I gotta tell you, the crowd there, they loved learning. And it's, it was incredible to see the conversations that they were having during lunches and then even into the night. Kent Bullard: It was all about what the training was in, involved in how they can apply it, how they and they were kind of like weighing the pros and cons of the training. And I haven't seen that depth of like understanding from like a holistic shop's perspective. What do you think got you to have that mindset of like, I always need to be learning and growing. Aldo Gomez: That, that's the type of person I am. You know, like there, there's a lot of times when I talk to service advisors, there's a lot that's in our control. Like, for instance, how we present an estimate. Do we know all the information? Did I begin the conversation in the best way possible? Are all of the variables that aren't really variables that are within my control? Aldo Gomez: Am I executing them? Executing them, and doing them properly? And there's things that are out of control. Like, for instance, when if the customer says no to you, it's possible that you're not gonna make every sale a hundred percent of the sales. What you can control though, is your part of it. And by you being aware that. Aldo Gomez: Some people are just like that. That way you don't get discouraged when things don't go your way. Right. It's, it doesn't mean everybody's like that. I would hear a lot of service advisors say things like don't, you don't even bring it up. Don't even bother bringing it up to somebody because they never buy anything. Aldo Gomez: That's a big one. They never buy anything. And I learned, well, they don't buy anything from you. That does not mean that they won't be motivated to be held by me. Kent Bullard: That was a nice way of saying, you're just bad at this. Aldo Gomez: Well, no. And maybe they'll buy from someone else. Yeah, exactly. It's, I don't know that, that part, I don't know, and I don't study that part. Aldo Gomez: I just know that they, that when people say no to me, also as a sale, as a service advisor sales person, when people say no to me too, because it also happens I can't ever blame the customer for it. It's not their fault. Kent Bullard: Well, I think that's such an interesting point. You know, I can't tell you how many times we've had conversations or, you know, we've been speaking with shops where the people run into this excuse engine of all of the reasons why they couldn't do it. Kent Bullard: And I wrote this down a few times. You've mentioned it three or four times, just in this short period of like, one of the things that makes, or that differentiates a good advisor from a great one is somebody who takes accountability. Aldo Gomez: Yes, Kent Bullard: extreme ownership, right? It's my job. I always have a choice I can make of whether or not, you know, I do this or even how I receive the feedback or the mistakes that I make and how I move forward from those things. Kent Bullard: Am I on Absolutely. Point there? Aldo Gomez: Yes. Yes. And be clear that as long as you do your part as well as you possibly can. Then everything else will work its way out. Kent Bullard: I'm interested to know, 'cause I asked the question in the very beginning here, those of you who are just tuning in we're kind of looking at what do you think is a critical characteristic that makes or separates a good advisor from a great one? Kent Bullard: And do you have great advisors in your shop? Let us know in the comments, you know, what are the characteristics you guys find make great advisors. It's funny because as we go through this, I mean, we just had the a PG group meeting and I always love those conversations. We get an opportunity to kind of go through and explore some of those pain points that these advisors encounter. Kent Bullard: And help them kind of bridge that gap between good to great. Most advisors I think, feel caught in the middle between like the customer and the technician. What do you think, or what do you see are some of the biggest challenges that they're facing on a day-to-day Aldo Gomez: that the service advisors are facing? Aldo Gomez: Regard with the, in their Kent Bullard: communications with technicians? Yeah. Or between their communications with customers. The Aldo Gomez: not being, not having clarity in communication because the service advisor is holding back. Kent Bullard: Can you, I wanna. Dig on that. What do you mean by holding back? Aldo Gomez: Meaning that most specifically, when you're a service advisor your position is to be being the linchpin between the customer and the shop. Aldo Gomez: Right? And what has to happen. So if you're not clear on your expectations from the customer and you're not clear on your expectations with your technician, most of the time you have a gut feeling that tells you that something isn't quite right. However, you may have gotten yourself into a habit of allowing it to happen too often, and then later it shows itself in different complications that don't need to happen in the process of the vehicle being there. Kent Bullard: Yeah, I think honestly what you're hitting on, and I think I mean the question more so. A bit more practical, but I think you're really hitting on something very important here because a lot of those practical obstacles, those tangible things that we run into those friction points are really kind of a symptom of whether communication has happened and whether that communication has been clear and understood by everyone involved. Kent Bullard: That seems like a lot to handle as a service advisor. Aldo Gomez: It is. It, so, it's a lot to Kent Bullard: handle Aldo Gomez: The way to get a good handle, if you will, no pun intended, right on it, is to no know what you're gonna do, what you're supposed to do. You know, I read a great book on boxing by a coach and all, everything that he teaches about boxing. Aldo Gomez: You could just switch whatever with the word boxing. It could be bike riding, it could be service advising, it could be parachuting. In this case it's boxing. It says a boxer only ever gets tired because he doesn't know what to do. If the boxer knows what to do, then he doesn't get tired. And you could put a service advisor in there. Aldo Gomez: A service advisor. And what tired looks like to a service advisor is exhausted. No longer, you know, 'cause you're as a service advisor, you're up front and you're at the front counter a lot and you're a big hub of communication. It takes a lot of mental energy. Your men your brain only weighs like, what, 10% of your weight or 2% or something, but it consumes a huge amount of energy. Aldo Gomez: So as a service advisor, you're taking on all these this information hub, and then if you don't know what you do to add to your frustration that you get more tired. Kent Bullard: Can you explain tired or you just mean exhausted, or do you mean more of like a burnt out? Yeah, exhausted, Aldo Gomez: burnt out. You know, I have a funny story of a service advisor that I coached, and when I first started coaching him, he said that sometimes his wife would say his wife would say, man, do you, and I thought it was a little bit rude, she would say, do you ever shut up? Aldo Gomez: She said, do you ever shut up? And then it, and I thought to myself, well, brother you're, I don't think you're gonna be talking a whole lot anymore once you really learn to be a service advisor. Although Kent Bullard: I told you that story in confidence. Aldo Gomez: Okay. Sorry. It wasn't, but I didn't say any names, Kent. Aldo Gomez: I didn't say any names. Oh, shoot. Right. Yeah. So we trained them, or I trained them and. Would you know it, he began talking a lot more to customers. And then about nine months later, he told me, he said, although my wife asked me if I'll ever talk again, if I'm ever gonna talk again. Aldo Gomez: Right? Because he would service advise all day when you get home, because you're an actor. When you're a service advisor, it takes energy. You got, so not knowing what to do is not knowing how to handle difficult calls, not knowing how to handle the stress that comes with being a service advisor and having to order parts. Aldo Gomez: And in with a technician, when you don't know how to do those things, they can really take the wind out of you because you don't have a you don't have a good method yet. Kent Bullard: I, I love what Jared added here, by the way. Welcome, Jared. Welcome Andrew. Anybody out there, if you have questions or comments we'd love to hear, please join the conversation because you know, I personally believe that you'll get a lot more out of it if you communicate. But the the passion I think comes in. Kent Bullard: But there's moments where, you know, passion, I feel motivation can be really fleeting. And you just talked about having some kind of a methodology for moving through that. What's a method that you've used or exercise often? Aldo Gomez: Well, in my service advising days, I had a ritual about everything that I did, right? Aldo Gomez: Meaning from cleaning my desk, organizing my things, I had one pen. I would never lose that one pen I had. Yeah, exactly. I used a one pen Anyways, so one of the, one of the things I would do is I would put tasks on a tearaway sheet of notepad, and my tasks were written down every day that I had to get done that day. Aldo Gomez: And then I had a spiral bound notebook, and that's where I kept vin numbers, mileages color codes, all information that I may need to access later. However, between the two of those, that was my method of checking in on my list every morning to see what I had to do that day. And and then the spiral bound notebook where I could refer to it when I needed to refer to my notes. Kent Bullard: You. I love that you had a comment that you made during our last service advisor training. I was trying to find what that is, and it had to do with I don't know. I'll find it. I just lost it. But it was, it had to do with preparation. Kent Bullard: Right. And I think what we're talking about here is a lot of this stuff, communication the anxiety here. Kent Bullard: The passion is all about preparation. I mean, exactly what you said is just being prepared for what's gonna happen, what we're doing, right. So that's one way. How important is preparation and what are some of the things that you should be preparing on a daily basis? Aldo Gomez: Well, preparation could be something as basic as looking at tomorrow's schedule the day before. Aldo Gomez: When you leave that day, or it could be something as consistent as every Tuesday at 2:00 PM review LA the last three days or the last week. Aldo Gomez: Right. So Aldo Gomez: even though you're reviewing, you're still preparing because if you're reviewing what has happened, you're gonna put notes in there that you need to do in the next week or not. Aldo Gomez: There'll be notes in there from your customers that said something as they were leaving. Right. Sometimes they'll say, can you make me an appointment for next week or in two weeks as they're leaving, they may say, can you make an appointment for my daughter's car in two weeks? I'll write it down. I can review my notes. Aldo Gomez: So preparing by reviewing your notes. 'cause they usually have information that you're gonna need to do. 'cause we all forget things. Kent Bullard: Yeah. That's something that. I've I have a son who's severely A DHD, and I myself am and that's one of those things where it's like I if I'm not taking that extra step to either put it in my calendar or to make a note and add it to my to-do list or actionize list, then it's like it will get lost somewhere. Kent Bullard: And so I've made it a habit to put any kind of a task or a note or any follow up just in my system. And then it's not on the burden on me to actually have that willpower and energy to remember it. I know that it's in my system that I've created, you know? I wanna go back to communication for a second here. Kent Bullard: How can advisors improve communication between the front counter and the back of the shop? What are some strategies they can deploy? Aldo Gomez: I, well, I'm a firm believer, and if it didn't if it's not written down, it didn't happen. That's the first thing I would say is if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen. Aldo Gomez: I can't remember everything. And I don't expect you to remember most things that I tell you unless I write it down. And when you write it down to receive acknowledgement that whoever has received that information from you has received it from you, because sometimes it's not enough simply to write it down. Aldo Gomez: And just leave it for somebody. You gotta make sure that that they received it. Or if you were working at a shop where you have, and I'm gonna be a little bit outdated at this point 'cause I still talk about paperwork orders and such, right? So the paperwork order is if you were to write it down on a file folder that hangs out from the wall, you would wanna monitor that paperwork that you left in there and make sure that it's moving, that it has moved. Aldo Gomez: So Aldo Gomez: simply write it. If you didn't write it down, it didn't happen and you must make eye contact. I think the best analogy I could use is when I was teaching my son across the street after we were bike riding, when he learned how to approach a crosswalk, Aldo Gomez: I Aldo Gomez: said, it doesn't mean anything unless you make eye contact, son until you make eye contact with the driver's. Aldo Gomez: Coming towards you, hitting the sign, hitting the button and seeing the walk sign is not enough. You must make eye contact. So same thing with the work order. If you write it down, you must get acknowledgement that they received it. Kent Bullard: I would say that's not necessarily just a paper thing. I mean, you know, there's countless of countless shops out there that are using digital systems and it's really, you know, we have a process in place. Kent Bullard: How well are we using the process? Because a lot of that communication, the stages, the dispatch, all that can be found in like your digital system. It should be there. But whether or not somebody's actually looking there and you see that receipt or acknowledgement from the other member the technician or what it's hard to just make that assumption. Kent Bullard: We don't wanna make assumptions because assumptions aren't clear communication. Right. I actually like what Rod had said rod Batar down there. He said, most advisors talk too much and that's counterproductive. And I think, yeah, it's the same thing with, we can over communicate sometimes. We often see service advisors, we'll talk themself out of a sale, you know, so it's not just communicating enough, but it's also, you know, communicating what's important, not just everything. Kent Bullard: Right. Aldo Gomez: That's correct. Yeah. The, and talking too much is typically a. A condition that is based off of the person talking isn't confident about what they're saying. So I have a, there's a great motivator. My mentor motivator of my choice is a man named Jim Rohn from the eighties, and he was an amazing speaker and he he talked about when your level of confidence in your communication, whatever you are saying, should be just the tip of the iceberg of how much you know. Kent Bullard: I like that. How much you know, because what it's making a reference to is what you communicate is based in what you know. Aldo Gomez: Well, what he's saying is that when you're confident, you really know a lot about whatever subject that is. Whether you're a scientist or a service advisor or a doctor or a street sweeper for that matter, Aldo Gomez: that Aldo Gomez: when you communicate to somebody and you're talking about what the issue is or what needs to be done, what you're communicating is just the tip of the iceberg of what you know. Aldo Gomez: So it comes to a confidence problem. So if you have a confidence issue when you're explaining things, that's what usually causes you to talk too much because you're trying to justify something that you don't believe because you don't have confidence in it. Kent Bullard: So. One of the things that I really like about having those kind of group sessions with the advisors is they get to be a little more vocal on some of these things that they're dealing with. Kent Bullard: Sure. And Kent Bullard: I, it was really funny because we had one of the members they stood up, they were bringing their agenda topic, and they asked, how do I get my advice or my technicians to do what I need them to do? Kent Bullard: And this goes back to some of those same challenges that we face and as we're kind of itemizing this, right. Accountability, confidence, communication now we have to deal with collaboration. Right? So how do you get a technician to do what you need them to do? Aldo Gomez: My method that I think is. Is easy enough and it's has really great results, is I would start by learning how to really appreciate what the technicians do to really respect what their job is, what they've learned to do, what they've invested in tools to do. Aldo Gomez: Because when you can learn to appreciate what they do at the level that they do it, you know, they technicians are on their feet all day long and they're touching hot cars and dirty cars, especially when it's raining, they're wet. Right when they're wet, when they're pulling 'em into the shop, they have to know how to use all these tools. Aldo Gomez: All these computers work all day. So sometimes when you need someone to do what you're asking them to do, you can start by appreciating what they do. Aldo Gomez: Because needing to do is we're all here as an organization working together to get vehicles repaired and keep our customers happy. So we're all doing what we need to do. But getting people to want to do things for you is a whole different experience. Kent Bullard: Yeah. I think, you know when we had that conversation, that discussion it, first off, I love the acknowledgement and the appreciation. Kent Bullard: One thing we don't do enough is like, look, we don't realize we're all on the same team. If the technician isn't able to do what I need them to do, then I can't do my job and we all suffer. And it's the same thing. And we mention this, it's like, look, you have to sell. And I hate the word sell 'cause it's not really a sale. Kent Bullard: But the way that you communicate and you present to the customers the same way that you should be communicating with the technician, here's what's needed and here's how it benefits you. How often have you taken the time to say you know, Mr. Technician, if you are giving me these, this DBI and you're giving me a better story, I can sell more of this work for you. Kent Bullard: So you only have to you might be able to work on less vehicles, but you're now doing more work and you're gonna get paid more. And I wanna line that up for you. And at the same time, you're also kind of in a position to protect the experience that they have invested in. You know, back at the conference this last weekend, it's like, these technicians have been coming to training for 10, 15, 20 years, and they're just continually investing in knowing the new softwares, the new systems, the new vehicles, the new tools. Kent Bullard: It's like, it's exceptionally valuable. And part of your job as a service advisor is to kind of protect that value and make sure that it's that experience is paid for by the customer through their experience. Right? Aldo Gomez: Yes. Let me, Aldo Gomez: let me add to that and add that if with whatever technician I was working with, I was happy with whatever level of commitment or communication they gave to me, as long as they were the facts. Aldo Gomez: If you don't wanna write an entire story, then just gimme the facts. I can write the story. I'm not concerned about me having to take, not even an extra step, but make that step for the technician. I'm okay with it. Aldo Gomez: So Aldo Gomez: you can get people also to do what you are asking them to do by just getting the bare, if they're just getting a clear idea of what their bare minimum is to you. Aldo Gomez: And if that's the bare minimum, then I can take it from there. Kent Bullard: I think we want to kind of open that door for them, you know, and. At the same time, it's like I go back, we had a a client of mine that we worked with and they talked about this technician that was the really experienced guy can really turn out work. Kent Bullard: But he was difficult in team meetings was, it was very abrasive with everybody. And this is where I think the value or the virtue of co of contribution is so important because I challenged them. I said, look, you've got a team meeting coming up. Go to that technician and say, Hey, you have tons of experience. Kent Bullard: And I think that it would be really valuable for the rest of the team to hear some of that experience. I know that you guys have been struggling with such and such with these vehicles. Do you think you could bring a small presentation on your method for that and present it at the team meeting? Right. Kent Bullard: And just, that's just a bid for connection, right? They say often, you know, in, in couples therapy and all that, what we're really looking for is to not deny bids of connection. Provide as many of those as possible. So I got a call later that day after their team meeting, and it was two of my employees came up afterwards and made the comment, I've never seen him smile. Aldo Gomez: Ah. And Kent Bullard: it's like, it's such a powerful thing to be like, look, if you want technicians to do what you need them to do, they need to understand how it benefits them. And they need to know that they're contributing to something greater than, you know, that, that idea of, oh, I just have to deal with this POS today. Kent Bullard: More than that. And if we don't talk about what's more than that, then it's hard for them to buy in and to do the things that are, they would perceive as, you know, counterproductive. Right. Don't have me do this 'cause I just wanna work on the car. Kent Bullard: With that, what do you think are, you know, we've talked about confidence, communication, contribution, accountability. Kent Bullard: What are some of the small habits or disciplines that. Make the lasting difference for advisors. Aldo Gomez: The my answer to that would be small things that you think are insignificant, like being thorough. Do you put all the information into the data system? It has a space for it. Do you use it? The, your your attention to things like greeting people? Are you good at it? Do you practice saying good morning or good afternoon? Aldo Gomez: Do you practice looking jovial at the front counter? And are you really, are you representing yourself in the best way possible for yourself? Kent Bullard: Did you have any little rituals that you would do that you would prepare for the day or, you know, you did every single day that just were, seemed innocuous to others, but to you was pivotal to kind of how you were able to show up every day? Aldo Gomez: Sure. Well, I mean, I exercised every morning before work, right? So I always exercised and had lunch. I would bring lunch. I would never go get lunch. I would always bring lunch and I would sit at a, we had pretty good weather where I lived, so I would usually walk to the nearest park and I would enjoy my lunch, and I would read for a little bit. Aldo Gomez: So just those two things would be our things I did every day. That I think made a huge difference. Kent Bullard: My life. So getting a little perspective, getting some distance. But you also you must have had to prepare for that because I know a lot of advisors who go, well, I usually work through lunch. Kent Bullard: Right. But you were able to take that time to go, Hey, I'm gonna go to the, to, to the close, the park nearby and I'm gonna have my lunch there. Aldo Gomez: Lunch. Sure. Kent Bullard: And this is something I think a greater conversation. 'cause I mean, we've talked, there's a reason we have the performance groups as like a regular monthly deal is that there's that consistent consistency to accountability and action. Kent Bullard: 'cause we used to see, we do like this five day five day bootcamp. And it didn't have much follow up. This is a couple years ago, and we'd see like a big boost in performance for the advisors, but it would slowly taper off and then the owner would call us and say, well, we gotta get them back in some at some point. Kent Bullard: And so what I'm trying to get to is like, what do you think. That, you know, so many advisors struggle to maintain some of this consistency. How can we address that? How do we fix that? How do we help that? Aldo Gomez: Well, I think the only thing that you can do is offer help and let them know that help is available if they want to change, because you need to want to change for things to change. You have to say, like Jim Rhodes said, three magic words is, I've had enough. I've had enough. And possibly if where you're at is not where you'd like to be, then that's the most important thing that happens, that you decide to wanna make a change. Kent Bullard: So let's go into some of the things that. Either the mindset or, so I've decided I need to change at this point because I want to be a service advisor like Aldo. I wanna be great. I'm not happy with, if I'm a service advisor, I'm not happy with the stress of the day. I'm not happy with all the fires I have to put out. Kent Bullard: I'm not happy with the relationships and I wanna start making change. And we've started to take that first step. But what are the things that I need to start doing on either a weekly or a daily basis to start moving that needle? Aldo Gomez: The first thing is, I would say congratulate yourself. 'cause you're halfway there already by simply being aware enough to say, I wanna change. Aldo Gomez: You're already halfway there because you're aware of it. So you've taken a huge step in just whether it's internal or to a friend is is the the awareness. And the second thing is in the next coming days, weeks, months, is be aware of, try to take a attempt to take a third person view of yourself as if you are watching a movie. Aldo Gomez: And you can begin to see what are the areas that you don't like about the movie that you're watching. Kent Bullard: I like that. So what you're doing is, Hey, awesome. So happy I made the decision to, to improve. And next we want to take the time to identify and determine the areas that we can address. Aldo Gomez: Yes. Kent Bullard: Then from there, we look for resources. Kent Bullard: We look for. Aldo Gomez: Yeah. Well, the human beings are amazing. Once you want this, everything begins to show up. Right? Once you, because this might be your moment right now that you're watching the institute podcast, and at the very moment, whatever you thought of a couple of moments ago or days ago, or this is your moment of your next step, I don't know. Aldo Gomez: I just know that for you wanting to change, that everything will come to reality for you. So it would be picking up the phone. Kent Bullard: It's the right, it's the right mindset to have. Right? Because if you're looking for those opportunities, you are. Growth oriented, then the beliefs you have will inform those decisions and actions that align with that mindset, which are more likely to produce the results you're looking for. Aldo Gomez: A hundred percent. Kent Bullard: I, I I love that you mentioned that you worked out of the morning and all this, I'm trying to get back into shape as well, but even Jared was saying, you know, really feel like the next big addition to automotive culture is assisting with physical health. I actually know of a few shops who have you know, workout groups where they all get together and they exercise and they keep each other on track for good health, good diet, I think especially with a service advisor role, I think both service advisors and technicians, we have a very stressful job, a lot of complex diagnostics, a lot of people who are really upset because now they have to invest in their vehicle and it's never good news when the vehicle breaks down. And that's very stressful to balance the nuance between the technical skills and then the people skills. Kent Bullard: Right. So you talked about your physical health. You talked about you read, so is that, and I know you're a big reader, talk to me about the practice of reading. Aldo Gomez: Oh that this is, you know, you could say there's two types of people in the world. The person that looks up the word and the person that doesn't look up what the word means. Aldo Gomez: So there's two different types of people. And what, when it comes to reading books, is it, I'm the type of person that likes to look up words. Aldo Gomez: So I, Aldo Gomez: If anything, there's so much happening when you're reading because you are reading, you're taking in the information that you need. Your mind is working to make all of this, to put all this together for you. Aldo Gomez: You know, a lot of great books. You can visualize what's happening. And then you build vocabulary through the book. Because if you begin to look up what every mean, whatever word means, then you're becoming articulate and you're able to use less words. And when it comes to service advising, less is more. Aldo Gomez: We just I always teach basic concepts, right? Just what the part does for the car, what happens if you don't replace it. And not being too complicated about it. Well, you need a good handle on vocabulary in order to make that more possible. Kent Bullard: I think that's, I think that's massively important because we talked about reframes and retributions at the last meeting, and that looks like, you know, unfortunately it's gonna take us two days or three days. Kent Bullard: And just shifting that perspective in, in your context, in your framing, in your words and saying, fortunately we can get this done in just about three days. Yeah. And it's the good thing about, it's positives a great thing about thing. Now the person on the other side is going, man, it could have taken longer than three days. Kent Bullard: I'm so happy they're gonna get done so quickly. And being able to have that acuity or that, you know, dynamism to navigate those situations, to be able to reframe. And re attribute. Aldo Gomez: What I was gonna say is a couple of moments ago, and part of being a service advisor is you hear everything, right? So a couple of moments ago you said maybe customers are unhappy with the news they're receiving from the shop. Aldo Gomez: And I Kent Bullard: even, I'm already putting it in a negative context. Context. Aldo Gomez: Well, here here is what I'm getting at is that if you can learn to be a really great service advisor and be. Be interested in your customer and also know that there's a separation between the repair and the customer. You really learn how to make great relationships with the people and not with their cars. Aldo Gomez: And when you have a good relationship with the person and they know that they can trust you and that you're a professional at what you do and the information you have is correct, they really don't get angry with you. They understand that this is a process the same. If you think about it, when you go somewhere and you get charged amount of money, usually if that person treats you well and you have a good experience with them, you typically don't complain about how much it costs, whatever it may be. Aldo Gomez: And if you have a negative experience with that person, whether they're rude to you or they're rushing you, or whatever that reason may be, you will blame the price on that emotion. Of you being unhappy about it. Kent Bullard: Yeah. It speaks to the same thing when you're talking about what's the difference between price and value. Kent Bullard: Another one of those great conversations just to go, okay, your job is, first off, we identify what the price is. We know, you know, what we charge for our technician's time because we wanna maintain its value. Make sure that we have the proper margin on it. And we know what goes into to make margin on the parts that we sell. Kent Bullard: 'cause ultimately we do sell parts and labor. Kent Bullard: And so the price is the price because that's what we know we need to hit. And then it's our job as service advisors to kind of build up the value until it overcomes that price for the customer. And having that, I love that one. I think the physical health leads into mental health, right? Kent Bullard: If your body is functioning properly, that means that you've probably got more clarity up here, or Headspace, a hundred Aldo Gomez: percent Kent Bullard: no stress. 'cause your joints hurt or you get easily winded when you go upstairs. Or brush your teeth, not talk about somebody else, not from personal experience. Yeah. Kent Bullard: But all those kind of things take away from your mental acuity when you're dealing with complex situations like this. Yeah. So how do I shift the context? You know, I teach a lot about, you know, process and motivation with the team and leadership communication with the team. And it really does boil down to context. Kent Bullard: So if you can shift the context for this, for the customer into a positive experience of Yeah, there's a problem that happened, but we are both on the same side here and we know how we can get this fixed with easily, quickly, and with as little stress as possible. Aldo Gomez: Right? Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah. Kent Bullard: And good news, fortunately, we can get it done in three days. Aldo Gomez: Yeah. Kent Bullard: The great news is, the great news is dot. I love that. Yeah. I love Rod. You're saying, you know, what would happen to cars if they weren't fixed? Good news. We have, you know, experienced technicians who can get you back on the road. And we do that. That's right. Let's take another step here. Kent Bullard: You're one of the coaches for our advisory performance group program. What's the biggest difference that you have seen difference from advisors who just started to, advisors who've been in the program for a while? Aldo Gomez: The advisors knew, found confidence and trust in themselves to execute on an idea or a plan in the say, in the process of helping a customer out or providing them with repairs and services. Kent Bullard: I, this links back to earlier you'd stated, you know, most advisors are tired because, or boxers are tired because they just don't know what to do. Kent Bullard: And I think when you've got a group of other advisors who have gone through some of these pain points and they're able to share from their experiences what I did, it gives you a lot more answers on I could do this, I could do, well, maybe answers is the wrong word. Options. Aldo Gomez: That's right. Kent Bullard: Having options. Aldo Gomez: Well, think about this, is that if we wanna make a car correlation, which we, which is easy to do, is I'm 44 years old, so I'm no, no longer on the younger side. However, we have some technicians that are still older than 44 and they're so experienced that they can get through a lot more cars than maybe a technician that doesn't have all the experience yet. Aldo Gomez: Although you would think that because someone has less ears on their body, they can move faster. But the experience is what allows you to move through more cars and not be so tired doing it. When I worked in construction many moons ago, if you were digging and you didn't know how to dig, you get way more tired than the guy that's been digging for the past 10 years. Aldo Gomez: 'cause he knows how to, he knows how to dig properly so he doesn't get tired. And he covers more ground than you do Kent Bullard: sharpening the ax. Aldo Gomez: Yeah. You're just getting better at it and then you're not getting tired. Kent Bullard: You know, it, it reminds me of Maslow's hierarchy. So we use Maslow's a lot in more of a management capacity. Kent Bullard: But it's, you can even do some self-reflection and go, okay, am I in the safety and security part of this pyramid? And if I'm in that safety and security part, I need to speak to whatever the, that immediate next level, which is connection and community. Do I have a team around me so I don't feel alone? Kent Bullard: And then you look to, once I'm in that community, now you're comparing, how can I contribute to that community? And so now the importance becomes how do I make myself valuable, or how do I contribute more? And that's kind of self-fulfilling. And like, I need to develop myself. And I think oftentimes we try to shoot for, especially as owners, shoot for, yeah, I wanna self-actualize you. Kent Bullard: I want you to think about how to be the best possible version of you. You can be. But if I'm here in survival, either I'm not, you know, earning enough because I'm not doing the right things. I'm constantly dealing with emergency after emergency. So I'm being forced to live in the present. I can't. Plan for the future and adjust for the future. Kent Bullard: It's very hard for me to go, I wanna be the best possible version 'cause I can't see what tomorrow's gonna bring. And I think what happens is when you get some of these, and it doesn't have to be in our program, it could be at some of these events or some of these conferences that you go to and just, or even online in some of the groups that we have here, just connecting with other people that are going through the same problems that you're going through can help you kind of move out of that, that just survival stage and look at how do I build success in what I'm doing? Kent Bullard: You know? I think that bid for connection is so important. As a service advisor, even as a technician or in your team, what do you think? Aldo Gomez: Most definitely. That all of those, that the process be in place and people be helping out with their parts. So you become a an asset, not a liability to your organization. Kent Bullard: The this is a great, so how do I become an asset, not a liability. I think this speaks exactly to what John Beasley is saying right here, and we'll posit the question here, right? As a young service advisor, what strategies build authority and credibility with customers? So I'm seen as a trusted professional and not just the new kid at the counter. Aldo Gomez: So, John, the great question, let me start by sometimes, or not sometimes, but the first thing is we need to establish is that as a younger service advisor, it comes with the territory. That people will give you less credibility. It does not mean it's fair. Life is sometimes fair and sometimes it's more than fair with us. Aldo Gomez: Sometimes it's unfair. Sometimes it, when you think it's more unfair than it used to be. So as the new at the, as the new service advisor, you got a couple things working for you is that you don't have bad habits yet, right? So you don't have bad habits. You can form all the good habits and the, and to be seen with authority and credibility is what I would say to any age service advisor is be knowledge, not, you don't have to be so knowledgeable about the car part itself, however, have all the information that you need so that you can have a important conversation with your customer, with all the important information and you do understand the information such as. Aldo Gomez: If, for instance, you were selling a alternator, you don't really need to know how an alternator spins and how it has magnets and copper that create electricity. But you may need to know that there's a reading that the technician noted that said it should be charging at 14 volts and this one's charging at 12.8. Aldo Gomez: That you do need to know. And with that kind of basic information that gets the point across, you'll get credibility. However, again having less credibility just comes with the territory of being a younger person. You can be okay with that because that's okay, and just do the best job that you can. And remember that the person on the other side of the counter is a human being just like you. Aldo Gomez: And they were also younger ex at whatever they were. And nobody appreciate something that you can really lean on because you're a younger technician or service advisor, sorry, is you can really lean on your eagerness. Your want to help people, they'll let you, they'll forgive you for a lot of things as long as you are really eager and wanting to be, do the best that you can. Kent Bullard: This is one of those things we talked about, you know, over dinner and double fried mozzarella sticks was you know, one of the advisors she had said that she felt really anxious being on the spot, a little newer didn't know quite the technical aspect of it, and we kind of landed on it really isn't, it's almost freeing to get to the point of understanding where it's like, look, it's not about me. Kent Bullard: It's not about you as a service advisor. And that is so freeing in the context that you don't have to be the expert. You have experts behind you in those bays working on those cars, and your job really is to facilitate the solution for the customer. It's not about you as a service advisor, it's about the person in front of you. Kent Bullard: Being able to hear them, being able to listen to them, being able to facilitate the solution for them and communicate those expectations ahead of time. It has nothing to do with you. And so you can kind of take that pressure off yourself as a new service advisor. Just don't think about it 'cause you've got the ex expertise. Kent Bullard: I mean that's how I've done a lot of this. I'm very young, but I get to lean on the expertise of all of the experienced coaches who've got, you know, 20 years on me. Right. I don't necessarily have to know all the answers. I can always go find the right answers. 'cause I know how to do that and I can facilitate the solution for you. Kent Bullard: Yes, Aldo Gomez: absolutely. Kent Bullard: We're getting up at that that time. If anybody out there who's listening has any questions for us. Obviously we're gonna repost this. You can ask those questions down in the comments below and we'll keep track of that and keep answering questions for you. I urge you right now if you have questions, go ahead and post 'em now so we can answer 'em while we're live. Kent Bullard: But I wanna kind of wrap with a few things. So we're starting our advisor roundtables for the performance group program, so that'll be an online round table for service advisors. Aldo, why is that so important to kinda have those touch bases? Aldo Gomez: The more that you get, the more practice that you get and the more information that you receive only makes you, it only will help you in your journey to getting to wherever it is that you're going see if you, some people will go to enough events where they're okay with it, and that's as many events as they need to go to. Aldo Gomez: There's other people that go to all the events that they can for the rest of their life because that's where they're going. And I would say if you're anywhere wanting to feel more comfortable or more confident, or answer weird or strange questions that you're not used to or get a better way to encounter with your customers when there's a disagreement or the best way to sell or provide the help the customers see the value in what you're proposing, then this is the class for you. Aldo Gomez: Or the round table. The round Kent Bullard: table, yeah. But speaking of classes, you know, we actually do have our service advisor intensive. It's three days of advisor training coming up December 11th through the 13th here in Ogden, Utah. And just a quick aside here, this really is we pinpointed the eight main modules that a service advisor needs to know in order to do things like improve their confidence, to gain more of your best customers, to increase your profitability, to convert more work, to complete more work. Kent Bullard: I mean, we cover all of the position of a service advisor in that workshop or that intensive. And if you are looking for more information and how to do that, I'd love to recommend that. You can check it out at we are the institute.com/uh, service advisor intensive. And we'll probably Elena will post the link here. Kent Bullard: But I wanna ask you this Aldo to kind of finish us out because we do have a lot of advisors that reach out and I wanna say, you know, what do you wish? Because ultimately as leaders, 'cause I'm a business owner what do you wish more shop owners or leadership understood about supporting their front counter? Aldo Gomez: That that the, what it does is so much bigger than what you seem to be doing at that moment. That the support may come in a small way or a what you think is not even worth doing because it's insignificant. It's like dropping a pebble in a pond. You don't know how far out it's gonna go. Kent Bullard: I love that, that one of our, one of our advisors actually mentioned that raindrops make oceans Aldo Gomez: correct. Kent Bullard: I think that totally leans into that. Aldo Gomez: We have a question. Can we answer it? Kent Bullard: We do. Hi, we've got a Mercedes spinner nerds, the demand technical questions. How would you advise to speak that lingo with them as an advisor? Kent Bullard: Thanks. Thank you. John Iverson. Aldo Gomez: Oh, it, it says it's Timothy, right? So, oh, Timothy. Timothy. Timothy. Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Timothy. So the. The first thing I would do is I would learn how to let the customer know that he knows more about the sprinter than you do. That's the first thing I would do. I would do that with most every car expert that I met. Aldo Gomez: Outside of the repair world, I really like stock cars just stock the way they rolled off the factory line because I like how they look and I think that's how they were designed and built. So that's how they should stay. With that being said I didn't really get into the car world as far as car performance and such, and when I would work with customers that were performance type people, they knew much more about their cars than I did a lot more and generally a lot more. Aldo Gomez: So normally what I would say is I would say, you know, Ken, it seems that you know more about the car than I do, and they're gonna quickly say, yes, I do. I've read everything on it. Now we've established that and now I can move on with proposing whatever the car needs. Aldo Gomez: So Aldo Gomez: normally when I get the first technical question I let them know that they know more about the vehicles than I do. Aldo Gomez: So there's no need to challenge me on it because I probably won't know what you're talking about. And at that point I can go and talk to a technician or whatnot, but Kent Bullard: you're facilitating the solution. Hey, I've got people I can trust and if you have specific questions, I can go get those from them and make sure that I get you the right answer. Kent Bullard: 'cause again, it's not necessarily about, you know, are you the expert? You're not a technician, you're not a master. Yes, Aldo Gomez: exactly. Yeah. You're facilitating Kent Bullard: the Aldo Gomez: solution, but that, but your ability to just simply shrug it off and say, it seems that you know more about the car than I do, works wonders. That's the, that's, if you learn to say that correctly, you can get that outta the way and they will forgive you and they know that you don't have the high IQ about their vehicle that you do, and then they let the rest of it just go smoothly. Kent Bullard: I love this. I mean, this has been really fun for me. I don't know about you Alda, or the audience out there. We've learned a lot. We've learned that we should read more because language is far more important in our role than we, we truly believe that context is king, that we need to look at how we're exhibiting our confidence building communication how we're allowing our team to contribute and showing them the benefit of working together collaboratively that raindrops make oceans. Kent Bullard: And one thing I did kind of write down on the end here is that information is not useful until it gets used. And that's one thing if you guys have learned anything from our time together today, is that, you know, any of this isn't gonna be useful to you until you go and implement and see the results of whether you know, of how you wanna execute this. Kent Bullard: So I urge you if there is something you're excited about from our content today. Go implement it, right? And if you do have any other questions for me or for Aldo, you can reach out to us. Comments down below, we're gonna have that post available later. And if you wanna know more about what the institute does in helping you build your legacy, you can reach us at We are the institute.com. Kent Bullard: Thank you all very much and we'll see you guys in the next one. Aldo Gomez: See you.

161 - Standing at the Crossroads featuring Mike Simard, Simard Automotive October 22, 2025 - 01:28:45   Show Summary: Standing at the Crossroads with Mike Simard, owner of Simard Automotive in Alaska, follows his journey from small-town beginnings in Vermont to leading a successful seven-location auto repair business in one of the most challenging environments in America. Mike shares powerful insights on leadership, perseverance, and business growth, revealing how faith, resilience, and a people-first mindset helped him build a thriving automotive team and company culture. From lessons learned on the shop floor to wisdom drawn from his sled dog team, this inspiring conversation explores what it truly means to lead with heart, purpose, and integrity in today’s automotive industry. Want help defining your legacy and growing a people-first business? Meet with Michael Smith to start your leadership and legacy strategy: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session    Host(s): Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute   Guest(s): Mike Simard, Owner of Simard Automotive   Show Highlights: [00:04:08] - Mike describes how curiosity and a drive to serve others led him into the automotive industry. [00:07:28] - A painful layoff at 19 fuels Mike’s determination to move to Alaska and build his future. [00:13:10] - Arriving in Fairbanks with little money, Mike’s relentless work ethic helps him open his first shop. [00:23:40] - The birth of his son with a heart condition reshapes his purpose and leadership focus. [00:28:23] - Joining a 20 group changes Mike’s perspective on business, money, and the value of community. [00:37:30] - The growing pains of leadership and building consistent processes across multiple shops. [00:49:08] - How dog mushing taught Mike about trust, motivation, and leading through care, not fear. [01:05:42] - On balancing compassion with accountability when developing team members. [01:10:59] - Building a leadership pipeline and measuring success through internal promotions. [01:19:33] - Giving back through community partnerships, apprenticeships, and technical training programs.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Kent Bullard: Hello, and welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge Crossroads podcast, where we're looking at examining the crucial decisions that professionals make that can steer careers, that shape industries that inspire thought leadership and ultimately build lasting legacies. I'm Ken Bullard. I'm joined by my esteemed colleague Michael Smith, and today we have the privilege of speaking with Mike Simard of ARD Automotive out of Alaska. Kent Bullard: Mike, thank you so much for being here today. Mike Simard: Hello. Thank you, Kent. And hello, Michael. Michael. Michael Smith: Hello, Mike. How are you man? Mike Simard: I'm great. Great. It's really balmy here. It's about 25 above in Alaska, so we're having heatwave winter shorts today. Kent Bullard: So, tell us a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself to the audience who's listening at home right now. Mike Simard: Sure. My name is Mike Ard. Originally grew up in upstate Vermont where I think there's more cows than people up there. And you know, I worked various jobs on a farm and worked in a shop since I was 13 years old. So I've been at this business for over 39 years, if you want to count since I was 13, 'cause that's what I did. Mike Simard: I even I learned to work before I learned to party, so I was that kind of guy that I would you know, work ethic if you're you know, looking at that. So, what I love to do is take things apart. Now, when I was young, I couldn't figure out how to put it back together. So, you know, I met some people in my life that liked to tinker on things and farmers always had to fix things in the middle of the field. Mike Simard: So, they just kind of hung around people that had to make things happen, grow food just get people to work and hung around people like that. So, 13 years old, worked in a shop after school, weekends, nights. During the summer, you know, time. And I learned how to split wood, you know, almost as tall as myself by hand. Mike Simard: And so I, I didn't have any you know, I had the old school, I had the old school training back then. So when I was about 19, I decided to pursue my goals. And I moved to Alaska and my future wife wanted to get outta state, just beautiful state up there but pretty isolated and moved to Alaska. Mike Simard: And so we have three beautiful children. I'm blessed to say that two of them are pursuing medical careers and one's wants to be an attorney. So I never thought I'd see that coming. And we have 40 sled dogs and a couple of boats and that we saved up for 20 years. And we just love to go hunting and fishing and raise our children on organic natural. Mike Simard: Food, if you will. And we have seven locations, one tire shop. And I just love pursuing the things that are hard and hopefully giving other people an opportunity to grow and pursue their purpose and their God-given talents in life, and use those to help humanity. That's the goal. So I hope that's the. Mike Simard: 39 years, like really fast. Kent Bullard: I'm just gonna say that's, I, I am very excited to dive into the wealth of knowledge and experience that you've had over your 39 years in automotive and beyond today. Those of you who are listening at home, this is a dialogue, this is a conversation and it is designed this way so that you can participate in that. Kent Bullard: If you have questions, if you have comments, if you have thoughts about the content we discussed today, let us know in the comments below. We wanna invite you into explore this content with us. If you're looking for more information about what we do, you can also find that at we are the institute.com and obviously if you enjoy the content today, like and share, so the algorithm likes us and we can get this content to as many people who need it as possible. Kent Bullard: So with that, I want to talk, you know, you, you gave a brief introduction. Of how you kind of came into this industry. I'd love to dive in to what originally drew you to this industry, but more importantly, what inspired you to commit to it? Mike Simard: Well, that's a great question. Again, I think the, there was always an internal drive to figure out how things work. Mike Simard: And so for me it was almost, you know, it was almost like a spiritual sense, but I didn't necessarily know that it's just like, how are things work? How does the world put together what makes things tick? And so I was always the guy that I'm a di for anybody that knows discs, so I'm like, I'm gonna take it apart before I read the manual. Mike Simard: Right. So I just love taking things apart. Got a little frustrating. I couldn't get my remote control cars to work again, and my buddies were already put it together. I take my bike apart. It's like, what are you doing? It's like, I'm gonna go faster, right? I'm gonna go better. I'm gonna figure it out. And I liked, I think I also liked helping people. Mike Simard: So it's the old lady, the old neighbor, you know, I mow the lawn for 10 bucks a week. The lawnmower back then, you know, those things weighed more than I did. I wasn't a big guy. So, but you know, it had a self-driving wheels on it. Old school, I had to figure out, it's like, I wanna make my job easier. Mike Simard: So I figured out how to fix the wheel. So I just loved trying to fix things and I realized people appreciate that 'cause not everybody's mechanically inclined. And it's like, oh, I love fixing things. Figure out how they work. And I like making people happy. By serving them and giving something they need. Mike Simard: So, that's really, you know, I'll tell you what I was blessed with is that I went into it because I'm excited to do it and I found my purpose. Not everybody has that today. It's sad. And that's one of the things I want to help the industry. It's like we have a purpose, we have potential regardless of what society says. Mike Simard: And so, I found my purpose not because it was a paycheck, and I think back, I mean, there was times, you know, my paycheck was in the drawer and, you know, 'cause I gave payroll to my people, but I didn't go into the industry for money. And I was just blessed since I was 13 years old. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. Mike Simard: And not everybody has that. And I realized what a gift that was in my life. And so, now how did I learn? I kept learning. I kept making mistakes. Resilience and grit's. A huge factor to get back on the horse. When you're kicked down. And so I think I wanna make sure I answer your question, but that really motivated me and also my first boss. Mike Simard: I've told Michael Smith this before I worked for most of my leaders were poor leaders. I didn't know that. It just didn't my job. And they didn't know how to appreciate or recognize. My first boss I found out later was it was that mood disorder bipolar. It's like, oh man, that explains a lot. Mike Simard: And I wonder how that's affected me. You know, 13 to 19 years old, I had a bipolar boss could barely read. So I was writing repair orders at 15 driving cars. I wasn't old enough to drive learned to fix tractors, dump trucks. And I also learned my customer service skills and I really like seeing the repair go out the door. Mike Simard: And in a way that the customer felt good about and that they were empowered to choose what they needed to do. It felt safe. And that just gave me a good feeling. So hopefully answered your question there, Kent. Kent Bullard: It did do you, was there anything, like one event or instance that got you to say, this is where I'm gonna live the rest of my life, this is the path I'm gonna take? Mike Simard: Yep. Absolutely. I will tell you what I've also learned is I work a sacrifice, right? Discipline, you know, was really sacrificed in the now for the future self, right? So back that person I worked for in my life you know, he had a business to run and things weren't going good financially. Mike Simard: And he said, I gotta let you go. And this person was the guy in one of my, my, you know, mentors in my life, one of the men in my life to help build me and make me who I am. And you know, he, that was hard because he didn't know how to let his brother-in-law go, didn't tell you that part. And he didn't know how to say that. Mike Simard: And I felt. I felt bad, you know, and I talked to Michael about this a little bit, but it really affected me and it drove me and it drove me because I wanted to, and this isn't necessarily a positive thing, but that hurt, that wound drove me to say, I, I need to be the best person I could be. You know, there was early days wanted to, to figure out and show them who I could be and prove who I was. Mike Simard: You know, all young men really need that challenge to grow up and mature. And it's really awesome because that was a wound and it drove me. And then I matured. I talked to guys like Michael or just leadership people and, you know, some counselors as needed, whatever we gotta do to be good fathers and good leaders to work on ourself. Mike Simard: But you know, this August I had an awesome thing happen. My dad had passed away and that was a beautiful thing. It was a beautiful thing. And but that man was there and I got to thank him. For that. So what seemed like, and that was healing for me and him and what seemed like a huge, like, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? Mike Simard: I'm 19. You know, you think you know everything, but later on you're like, you didn't know anything. And that hurt drove me to Alaska. 'cause me and my buddy, so there's this, me and my buddy were on the back of a tractor with a six pack beer at 10 o'clock at night. 'cause the Hay's gotta get in. And I'm like, hurry up so we can go to the party. Mike Simard: You know, I did my 12 hours. You do your 14. We did the math. He was making a dollar 20 an hour working for his dad on the farm. You wanna talk about hard workers? Okay. I was making like seven. So I thought it was, I was in heaven. This is back in the nineties. And so we had convinced each other, we're gonna Alaska for the pipe dreams. Mike Simard: Well then we met our soon to be wives, changed our whole perspective. I got laid off and I'm like, now's the time. You're ready buddy? And he is like, no, she wants to stay. So I. I opened a map and like my dad's like, where do you wanna go? Because he drove up with me. He was great. I was like, well, Anchorage looks too big. Mike Simard: Everybody else looks too small. Fairbanks looks about right. And I drove to Fairbanks and I've been here ever since. So that difficulty in my life and that pain and that hurt drove me to go to Alaska, and I know now it was providential. I didn't know that. It felt like pain. It felt like running away. Mike Simard: It felt like proving myself. But this is where I'm supposed to be. Kent Bullard: Well, you could have just as easily, I mean, I can't imagine the rejection of a mentor that you look up to and they're kind of saying, you know what? Nevermind, I'm done. I'm kind of done with this relationship. That's gotta be exceptionally painful. Kent Bullard: And you could have taken it completely sideways. You could have let that destroy you. You could have let that eat at you. But you pointed it in a productive way, if not, you know, fully a healing way at that point. You know, and it might have taken time, but I mean, you put, you pointed it in a very productive way. Kent Bullard: And that takes a lot of grit, as you would say. Mike Simard: Yep. Absolutely. You can let the pain either transform you or you can spread it out. Puke it out all over everybody else, you know, I mean, we have to choose and so, didn't always do it right, didn't always make the right choices. Right. But you know, it's trying to live your highest potential. Mike Simard: It's gonna fall down and scrape your knees. You gotta get back up and I just, I love doing that. I love helping others do the Michael Smith: same. So how long ago that you showed up in Fairbanks? How many years? I moved Mike Simard: here in 1995. It was May 13th at 11:00 AM and my dad and I drove a 1984 Chevy with a straight six from the salvage yard with some bearings are rolled in with some 400 grit emery cloth. Mike Simard: And made it all the way here. And the engine blew five days later with a 1979 banner, double actual travel trailer that weighed more than the truck. I cannot believe the Canadians let us through. It was awesome. And Michael Smith: yeah. And when did your wife come. Mike Simard: So she was back there finishing up school that year, and she showed up that summer. Mike Simard: And I worked for the dealership for the first eight months of my time here. So, and we didn't know it at the time. We stayed in a terrible part of town. It was bad, but that's all we could afford. Right? So, did what we, the adventure Kent Bullard: begins the adventure. So there by providence. What did the first bit of your life there look like? Kent Bullard: You know, leading up to when you know you're there, you're in a new place to when you actually decided to have your first shop? Mike Simard: Well, I always had that dream right. I always knew what I wanted to do. Again, I'm blessed with that. I always knew I wanted to run a shop. Now I, you know, sometimes you can't always perceive what's in store for you, but you kind of get see through the fog and I just always hung onto that and it kept driving me to get outta bed in the morning when nobody else wanted to. Mike Simard: And so, I remember when my dad went home that night, it was a lonely time. I had no money. I think I owed like five grand on my credit card. My engine blew up five days later. I just landed the job. I had to get to the job. I was living 30 miles outta town 'cause it was $200 a month and that's all I could afford. Mike Simard: And so I went and bought a 1979 Chrysler Cordova two door. And they needed a radiator from the local used car place for like 500 bucks and two debit transactions. I mean, I was right at the bottom right, but I was gonna make it happen. And so, I went ahead and figured out to get a place in town closer so my wife, my future wife would come up and I just met, you know, it was a cool thing how things work out. Mike Simard: I met two good old boys that lived. Up two, two of my redneck people that I knew from other people they were they were there, they lived the town over and we had known each other and who each other was, but we didn't know each other. And the best thing I ever had not much of a beer drinker, but that was the best cold beer I ever had 'cause I couldn't afford it. Mike Simard: And they're like, here's a beer out in a gravel pit. And that just, those little things helped keep me going. I landed the job at the dealership and got a place that my wife would would appreciate Stan. And that got me started. What was the rest of your question, Kent? Kent Bullard: So, so this is kind of about the major decisions that, that, you know, shape you and your career and the industry. Kent Bullard: So you're there, you're working for the dealership. What was the pivotal moment where you've always wanted ownership, but how did you make the decision? How'd you move forward with that? Michael Smith: What was that day Kent Bullard: like? Yeah. What was that like? Michael Smith: Yeah. Mike Simard: Yeah, so what I remember is working at that dealership, what I did is I met some good people, made some friends and then we ended up renting a shop. Mike Simard: My wife had come and upgraded the Chrysler right to a two-wheel drive Toyota. And what I did was rented a little shop outside of town and with a friend. We went in on it and we just started fixing cars at night. I mean, it was crazy. We were heating it with a torpedo heater and getting sick in the fumes. Mike Simard: We didn't know what we were doing. And it was just really to, I love fixing cars. And I wanted to make a life for my wife and I, and start a family, and I knew I needed a good support structure for them. And in Fairbanks, Alaska, you know, there's a lot, it's a harsh climate, so there's always something to fix up here. Mike Simard: And so I would say it was more of a undetermined, relentless drive that I couldn't. I couldn't turn away from that. That really led me to, to the goal. And so, you know, things come up all the time. I can tell you about a hundred of 'em come up, some serious life things that came up that, but I never ever questioned what was in my heart. Mike Simard: So I always knew where to go, and I just kept reaching and reaching for it. So fixing a few cars having some side money was helpful, but I just loved when people were like, thank you so much. Nobody could figure it out. Of course, they didn't know. It took me 20 hours because I didn't know what I was doing all the way. Mike Simard: But I just wouldn't give up and I would do the work to the point where I'd be proud for anybody to look at it under the hood. And so in 1997 we bought a duplex and I built from scratch a 24 by 32 square foot garage behind the house. We're about to have our first kit. I guess one customer at a time. Mike Simard: So I actually quit my job and my first job, you won't believe this, but it was a D nine bulldozer that I did an in-frame and I didn't know what I was doing, but there's a manual. I actually had to read that manual, right? And I put it together and the only problem I had was one valve was ticking. He called me up, I got this weird ticking, and I was like, oh my God, please, I can't afford any screw ups. Mike Simard: And it was just a valve adjustment. And that was my first job. It was like $2,500 labor. And that fed my wife and I for two weeks. And so it was one customer at a time. It was the grind, it was a slug, but I remember those times as a challenge, but I wouldn't change it for the world because of the lessons I learned to begin that operation. Mike Simard: I learned all about customer service again. You're on your own. If you mess it up, they're not happy, right? They're not gonna pay you. And I really just got in with some good people that just kept telling others that I did good work. So that's kind of the beginning and the birth of of the company. Michael Smith: Were there weeks that went by at the beginning after you quit your job, that you didn't have the flow, and you guys are sitting over the milk cartons looking at each other going, gee, I hope there's food next week. Did it ever go that low for you guys? Mike Simard: I would say there was a lot of ramen noodles and hamburger helper. Michael Smith: Yeah. There you go. Mike Simard: Absolutely. But, you know, my wife probably has a different perspective. But I would say that you know, if you do good work, then they tell someone else. It, it grew pretty fast in my mindset. My goal was to be at a bigger shop for 18 months, and I remember one of the hardest things I did was I wanted to grow down the street. Mike Simard: Michael, you've been to that, that other, that first shop? Not the first shop, but the second shop in 1999. We grew, it was about six months late. And I remember going into banks I needed like 180,000. Right. And you know, I got two, no. And, you know, I was just a young kid that thought I knew everything, but I went into third bank and I said, look sir, I know exactly what I need to do. Mike Simard: I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it successful. I have a plan, you know, and I really, you know, I'd like to borrow all the money from you. And it's, I just gave it all I got. And I don't know what I said exactly that day 'cause I had been rejected. And that guy gave me the, yes. So it's really about people in your life. Mike Simard: I think that, you know, the right time, the right conditions, and I can kind of look back. It's always easier to see that that if you keep trying for the goal and it's the right goal and your heart's orientated in the right direction for the right reasons, then the right people will come along to help you get there. Mike Simard: And that banker, I'll still remember who that guy is, name's Gary. And he took a chance on me and that's what I needed in the moment. To go forward and build that next shop that I built. Michael Smith: Knowing you that's really all you needed, just gimme one leg up and I'll be fine. Right. Just lemme get that one leg and I'll do what I say, Mike Simard: like, I won't sleep until I do what I say is extremely important to me as well. Mike Simard: That I do what I say and I did it. Yep. Michael Smith: Great story. Kent Bullard: What was the, was there a turning point in that single location? Because this is a garage on your property, right? Yeah. This first place. Are you still Mike Simard: there? No. So that, that we sold that property when we, in 99, built the bigger shop. We ended up living upstairs in a bigger shop, sold that whole duplex off to fund the new program. Mike Simard: And then grew that one location. That's really where I actually joined the institute, two thou late 2007. So there's a lot of cooking time there. It's like what, 8, 8, 9 years? After saying no. Several times I could see now how much that's cost me money. When I didn't join the 20 group that GPT three used to be called Bottom Line Impact Group I said No. Mike Simard: And finally, you know, guys just did a good job back then. Are you sure? Are you sure? Sure. 'cause there was trainings. And finally I like, I gotta really learn how to run a business and I gotta learn how to manage people. And so, what was your question again, Kent Bullard: Kent? If you could repeat it, just kind of looking to see where you were at when you've, when you had the single location and things started running smooth, you were kind of in that area of, Hey, this is working. Kent Bullard: I'm feeling that this is successful. I am starting to step away. You know, 'cause at some point it's not a, it's not the same type of grind. Right? Yeah. This grind is, I'm working on these vehicles I'm working on directly with these customers. At some point you made kind of a transition to leadership and management and weren't in the trenches, so to speak. Mike Simard: Yep. Yeah, I can speak to that. So I do remember those days as I was learning to be a better technician and I loved working on cars. Then I discovered that I love teaching people. I brought a lot of people up from the ground up. And a lot of, some of these people are still in this town and appreciate that. Mike Simard: And so I also, I needed to learn how to sell work in the front. And I remember I'd been doing that since I was 13. I didn't necessarily know how to make money. I mean, the p and l, what's that, right? Do I have enough money to pay bills today? I mean, that's what it was. Michael Smith: Book Living, right? Mike Simard: I had a really good person for my bookkeeper. Mike Simard: She was like my grandmother. She was like my guide kind of like Tara is now, but I had somebody else there, so that helped me manage that part of it so I could focus on the front and the back. So eventually I felt a good enough to hire some people that knew what they were doing. And I was already really good tech, had a really good reputation. Mike Simard: The brand was really strong, no marketing. And I started moving towards the front to manage. And sometime around there, you know, GPG came, you know, Ling Impact Group came. And what I realized, I think what happened or a couple things happened, if I can take a pause for me in my life it's fairly significant. Mike Simard: So again, more of those, that adversity that you got two choices. You can let it beat you down or you can use it to, you know, realize there's a lesson there and you go, so when I first opened my, my, when I first opened a shop, actually, when I first moved into the new location. So you got a new mortgage now, right? Mike Simard: And a kid on the way. I felt, I started feeling successful, so I had a little bit more money. Instead of just ramen noodles, I could buy a steak. And then I started, I don't know what's weird, but even though the company was growing, I felt a little bit of a a hole somewhere. Right? It's like, what's missing? Mike Simard: So I started seeking a little bit back to my spiritual roots and going to that. But at that time, and I didn't realize what was going on. I can reflect on it, you know? I was really looking what's the meaning of life? You know, you go through, you can go through why am I here? And and that time I had my first kit and super excited. Mike Simard: I was a boy, you know, I'm a dad and you know, so that was hugely significant and this was a pivotal moment for me. I think that made me who I am. So my son was born with half a heart and he had heart surgery within three days. And it was a, it was the craziest thing 'cause it's the only time I got to, if you will play God. Mike Simard: And back then they said you got three choices. You know, you can wait for baby to die and take heart lung transplant. You can do this radical surgery that sometimes works or you can you can let 'em go. And so that was a pretty tough one at whatever I was 23 and to say you could just let your baby die. Mike Simard: And I'm like, well, if there's a chance, okay then I have hope. So that changed my whole life. My son's doing great now. He's the one in medical school. It was three open heart surgeries and a lot. So I was running a business that was successful. It was awesome 'cause my friends came when we were down there. Mike Simard: I'd never left his side and mama's side during those open heart surgeries. And my friends came outta the woodwork and ran the shop for me. They had no idea what they were doing. The techs knew what they were doing. The team came together. And I think what I learned about that time was that running the shop and where this business can go wasn't about me anymore. Mike Simard: It was about, I needed to learn about how to help others and serve others. And I think I needed that. I was searching for something. I didn't know what it was. And again, another large piece of adversity, another huge challenge that I don't wish upon my worst enemy came up and, I had to kind of contend with life again and what it meant and where should I go and how am I gonna choose to navigate? Mike Simard: And I choose to look at this as as this are my cards, and this is, you know, we're the parents for this young man that needed us in the situation that he was in is William. You've met William, I think Michael. And that I'm gonna keep going, like my dream's still alive. And there's a couple detours and I never give up. Mike Simard: And it also changed me as a person to where that whole if you will, that I had of like, what's the meaning of life? All of a sudden? Like, ah, serve others, help others grow this business to do that, Mike, that's why you're actually doing it. Sometimes you just see, I'm gonna fix cars and make all this money. Mike Simard: It's like, if that's what your goal and dream is, then eventually that might dry up and that may not be enough to carry you through hard stuff, making money's fine. That's what we do. But what are you gonna leave when you're gone? What kind of legacy are you gonna leave? Earth and are you gonna leave it better than you found it? Mike Simard: So that's what I did is I used those moments to take and say, you know, this business is about helping others. And so eventually I think you guys end up calling me Dan Gilley's crew and and said, Hey, are you sure you wanna join 'em? Finally, I'm like, yeah, I need to learn around a business. Mike Simard: 'cause I gotta take care of my people. I love that. So a personal about that, I don't know if Michael's heard all that, but that's really what I went through and I think what drove me made me who I am. Yeah. Kent Bullard: You know, I just to commiserate here I feel a lot of familiarity here with myself. Kent Bullard: You know, I've made some choices in my life and I've often felt that, you know, a lot of, often oftentimes people go, oh, there's these things that inspire me. There's these, you know, nice, beautiful, positive things. But for me personally, and it, you know, it sounds a lot like with you it's the times in my life where I've had to face adversity that I really was able to use that as fuel to grow and develop and make those changes. Kent Bullard: And sometimes it's not gonna be a beautiful, inspiring thing that gets us to move. Sometimes it's the ugly, painful stuff that, that goes, you know what? I gotta be tougher than this thing in front of me. 'cause I know I can be, you know? And Kent Bullard: so. You're dealing with a lot of this you've got a lot of people that came outta the woodwork to help support you and help you grow this. And you realized, you know, this is, I'm really building this for others to serve others. And you've got a single location and you're starting to figure things out. Kent Bullard: What's the transition look like between the single location and deciding I'm going to, you know, grow, I'm gonna expand, I'm gonna make this as big as possible to help as many people as I can? Mike Simard: You know, I think it's what we told our kids too, in, in you know, I think if I would've stayed in that little town of Vermont, if you stay hidden in your room, if you put your head down and don't look up and see what's out there in the world and what the possibilities are you're never gonna even know how to dream. Mike Simard: You're never know how to pray. You're never gonna know how to seek. Like, what should I be doing? And you're limited in your thinking 'cause you just don't see. And so I think what happened was I was ner a little nervous to join a 20 group 'cause there's a stigma. I was like, everybody's out to make money. Mike Simard: I came from, look at man, I came from upstate Vermont where the farmers were always complaining that the rich bankers and lawyers are the ones that dockers are screwing it all up. Right? All these corporate people, right? And so that was my narrative and I was nervous to join a 20 group. 'cause probably a bunch of crooks, right? Mike Simard: They're just making all this money. And of course I was doing better. But you know, if it's 3% net with no debt, I mean that's better than from zero right now. Now 3% net doesn't cut the mustard, right? So, I think what changed is that I realized I needed some help. I needed to grow. I needed something, you know, high school taught me a lot. Mike Simard: The real world taught me a lot. I needed to get my education. So I joined the 20 group. The cool part about that is you know, still friends with a lot of these guys. I just saw five of 'em. My good buddies in Denver here last week with Michael. Had a good dinner. You know, I met these people and we formed a new bond with people. Mike Simard: I was like, wow, you're just like, I am. And then I was like, oh, you started wrenching too. And and we all really, I felt their hearts were good and they had skills. I didn't, and I had skills. They didn't. And we shared ideas in the 20 group. Again, this is institute and Dan Gilly and RLO and that whole transition of what you guys are carrying forward. Mike Simard: That, and then seeing other shops and the group process that, you guys aren't paying me a dime. You didn't tell me. I had to mention at all the institute. I just wanna say that right now. Nobody told me to do this. But that's what opened my vision and my horizons. 'cause like, wow. These are good people in this industry and wow, there's a lot of things we can do for the industry and I can learn and I can contribute. Mike Simard: And then to answer your question, I think it was, I think it was Jeff that came in the group and he's like, got five stores and just kind of comes in do. And and then someone else bought a store and then I'm like, dude, I mean, I'm still struggling to, to run my store. It's actually starting to get better. Mike Simard: I'm learning how to run a p and l and how to market and take care of people better. You know, you get a little bored. I was like, well shoot, I'm not gonna let you beat me. So how did you do that? And then they share, then they tell you what not to do. And then then I bought a second store and 2000 what the heck was that? Mike Simard: A few years later, I'll say. And I think it was just 2016, but then a another store, and then I had a bunch of friends that now it's like, Hey man, where, when are you gonna buy a store? And so next thing you know, group three is, you know, that's the infamous beginning of the story of group three of how we went multi-store Kent Bullard: operators. Kent Bullard: So I want to get into that, you know, from one to two and talk a little bit about that. But before we do that, I'm curious to know how you addressed that stigma you had about these guys are. Crooks because they're trying to make money. And it's something that we hear often, you know, when we're out and about and people are asking us, well, you know, obviously they're really greedy and they're, you know, what about that Got you to shift your perspective to, you know, these guys actually are full of love and full of care and they're doing this because, you know, I mean, they wanna invest in people. Kent Bullard: What, what got you Michael Smith: to kind of, they're multiplying their impact, right? It's a shift in mindset. So how'd that happen for you? Well, I think it's Mike Simard: because we all I would say everybody, you know, again, it's the circumstances that you're put in and the people that come at the right time. I mean, it's all these different things that happen that are outta your control that you can choose how to use that, right? Mike Simard: And so I just happened to be in a group with a bunch of people that got along well that challenged each other to grow. So when I realized of like, oh, goodness rest of the world, there's a bigger world out there. And the reality that I grew up in and was taught isn't the reality that I'm seeing. Mike Simard: So that's where my 10 pegs got wider, right? It's like, oh there's a larger world out there. And I started understanding different ways to operate the shop. And I had friends that could call. And I think at that point I realized, you know, there's a narrative going on in society that I don't agree with. Mike Simard: And COVID was a great example. Who was the essential workers? All of a sudden we became essential. Before, I don't know if you guys ever remember this. Not everybody remembers this. In the high school guidance counselor's office, there was a picture of a college graduate. And a grease monkey mechanic. Mike Simard: Has anybody ever seen that? Ever? 'cause if not, I'll send it to you later. And it was like, I wanna see it. You don't wanna be this guy, you wanna be that guy. Has anybody seen that? YouTube? I didn't. I wanna see it. Kent Bullard: But when I was in high school at that time, at that age, they were actually rolling back a lot of those what I would deter, you know, say now are really essential jobs like shop and, you know, automotive. Kent Bullard: And they were pulling those programs outta my school and they were investing in things like the football team, which by the way, we never won a game. Okay. During my whole time at that high school. But they were pulling back these really crucial. Programs at that time. And that's, you know, I look back, I'm like, that's such a, it's such a travesty. Kent Bullard: Right? That's my experience with that. You know? Send Michael Smith: us the picture. Kent Bullard: Yeah. Send you a Mike Simard: picture. But that was the, you know, the backdrop of Yeah. Of the narrative that was working against me and the narrative that I had in that, that upstate Vermont farm town, which I'm so grateful that our dad brought us there. Mike Simard: I mean, that was a great place to live. And so what I realized is that the world wasn't that way and that, look, I mean, I've got three kids going to school, okay? But the thing is that we raised them in a way to show them different perspectives of the world. And we never once told them what they should do. Mike Simard: It's like, you gonna pick, well, everybody in the world says, I gotta go to college and get this degree. I said just look at, man, if you're gonna do brain surgery, you better go to stinking college. Okay? Like, you're not working on someone's brain without it. But there's a lot of good jobs in the trade and that's why I'm like, there, there's a undercurrent, I don't call it a lie, I'm not a conspiracy theorist guy, but it's like they're undervalued the people that make America go, that build houses, that fix cars and make stuff work. Mike Simard: And that's been undervalued and it really irritates the crap outta me. 'cause there's really good people back to those people. A lot of the guys in that group and guys and gals started their own shop, either wrenching or working on the front end. And they were good, honest people. And then I realized it's okay to make money. Mike Simard: You're, you know, I think Waffle told me years ago, it's like, you know, every business should be ready for sale at any time and you're building it to sell. And it's like stinking little things like that I never thought of. I ran it 'cause I loved it and then it was like, I should run it in case something happens to me. Mike Simard: I need also it to carry on. You know, I want something to last. And I also want to take people that have been marginalized in society. I bought tire shops. If you wanna talk about going back 10 years in technology from the comprehensive model. There, there's this like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize that a lot of people in the tire industry have been there forever and haven't moved. Mike Simard: And it's like, geez, you guys need to see what's out there in the world. Maybe you want I'd make me laugh all the time. Maybe you wanna be an astronaut. They look at me, wait, well hold on. I said, well, you could start with like being a mechanic or being an a tech or being a service advisor or run a store, but maybe you wanna be an astronaut. Mike Simard: And like where are you? Where are they limited? And how can we show them what's available and how do we help people get outta poverty? And so that's what really drove me to wanna multiply and influence in a larger scale. I hope I answered your question to Kent Bullard: that. You did. Kent Bullard: And I, you know, I wanna follow this up 'cause now I want to talk about, you know, exploring that, that. You know, step from one to two. And my question that I have written here is like, what were your greatest concerns or fears? You don't seem like a person who has fears. It's almost like you're just ready to take it on head first, so you know more. Kent Bullard: So what were the, what were some of the obstacles that you got to destroy as you conquered, stepping from one location to the second location? Mike Simard: Well, the, some of the hardest things to do is to figure out and there's multiple layers that you run into, right? And so you have to figure out, first of all, how do you keep what what the good processes are and the things that keep your company back. Mike Simard: How do you keep the experience the same? So it was really important to me. So, so we wanna fix cars here in this brand and want the same brand and the same out outcome. We want the phone answered the same. We want the quality to be the same at both locations. So, you know, when you have to, when you run two, maybe three stores, you can pretty much control everything and it's still you doing everything and you don't really, you know, yet have to really up your leadership skills. Mike Simard: I mean, I was reading and I was learning and I was growing, of course, I was learning to be a better leader. But you can pretty much like bounce between all the stores and keep things going. Then you start getting, you know, past two to three and above. You've really gotta learn how to empower leaders. Mike Simard: You've gotta learn to, or you gotta learn to put processes in place. So, one of the things actually the team's asked me to go back to doing this. I'm actually doing this now. Put a few things back because we went to two, to four to seven, like in 18 months. It was pretty rapid. Lots of growth and maturity and, you know, we doubled our net profit every year in a row. Mike Simard: That's not easy. It's not easy. And so, and we kept reinvesting the money. That's another thing. You gotta keep reinvesting in your teams and the company and make people successful to wanna stay with you. So in early years, I did a lot of lunch meetings and we just hammered things out. We collaborated what's, what went right today, what went wrong? Mike Simard: What can we do different? What did we learn? So we constantly use every hurdle is learning curve. What do we do when someone takes vacation? You know, how can we fix the cars better? What do we do when a comeback happens? You know, it's an opportunity to learn and it's an opportunity to serve the customer and show our integrity. Mike Simard: And so back then we didn't have our values quite set. We were living our values. But, and people might be able to articulate 'em, but we didn't go write 'em on a wall. We didn't know how to do that. And we kind of learned how to do that later. So we wrote down processes and then we learned from our peers, like, here's a process we didn't know how to do. Mike Simard: And we adapted it. And then I would take it back. And those lunch meetings, I'd continually coach my team and we would do that for both shops. So I'm actually going back in now, like we have two groups a point s tire lube model, and the comprehensive model. And so what we're trying to do is not mess up the models. Mike Simard: 'cause there's two different types of customers looking for two different types of things, but kinda cross pollinate some of the leadership principles and meetings and communications and processes. And it was really enjoyable because I tell people, even to this day, you know, I was just upstairs at the airport shop of the day saying, this is the very table and the very place that we built this company and you're part of that today. Mike Simard: And we're gonna teach you what we know and. We're gonna grow and we're gonna laugh and cry together. I said, but know that you're part of the company and this company's about you, and you guys make the company and you guys can keep contributing and you're an important contributors to this company. Mike Simard: We keep growing these things out to make things better. So that was extremely important that we included the team in building building things and they really appreciate that. Michael Smith: How did you come on the wisdom of collaboration? Just intuitive, historic Mike Simard: well, I am an I, so there's the part about, Hey, let's get together and have some fun and have some lunch. Mike Simard: It feels good to be together. Sure. It feels good. I don't know. You know, it's one of those things that I hear it from a friend at the group process. But I think because I enjoy people and I like seeing the customers happy, I'm like, I just I gotta get everybody together. Mike Simard: 'cause you know, here's the thing, man. You come back from a meeting or a conference, you're all fired up. You wanna do all a hundred things. Everybody knows this. You know, if you get 10% of 'em in place and you get back, you're doing pretty good. So I probably tried that a couple times, Michael. I was like this isn't working. Mike Simard: So I had to slow down and we had to say, okay, I have a few different things here to fix the problem we've had. And so what do you guys wanna try? So once the ideas, once you kind of get them involved with helping you make the decisions and having them own it then everything became alive. And once I started learning how to do more of that, then it was able to continue to grow. Mike Simard: And that's where it was really the launch point. So it's really back to I'm here to serve people, not just to do my will. I mean, it's I'm a d I'm a directive, right? So come follow me. You know, as a good friend of ours will say, you know, come follow me. We'll storm the gates of hell with a water pistol. Mike Simard: I mean, I'm right there, right? I'm gonna have water and you got a team there need, but I need you to carry the backup water 'cause I forgot. Exactly. Michael Smith: Exactly. And you're there with a team. You, your old team's right there with pistols. You got it. Yes, Kent Bullard: sir. So did you have, in your strategy, were there some assets you knew you could really invest in that, that you felt would make a di a big difference as you were scaling Mike Simard: assets? Mike Simard: Like, trainings, learnings? Is that what you mean? You mean people tools? Kent Bullard: It could be, it could even be a network, right? Are there connections you have, you can leverage it. Just assets that helped you build and grow. And what were they and what did you invest in? Mike Simard: I think learning that Kent Bullard: you felt made the biggest difference. Mike Simard: Yeah. So I think a few things that I kind of skipped over a few things. So of course the group process was huge. Coaching was huge. I mean, until you, again, how do you expand your horizons? Now I realize I come from upstate Vermont and I come from Alaska. So you wanna talk about Alaska is the largest, smallest city. Mike Simard: I mean, it's largest, it's tiny city in North America. If you kept driving through Canada into Alaska, there's nothing else for 500 miles except the pipeline. Okay. So it's pretty remote, but I'm used to four seasons. It's just a little bit more extreme. So a lot of the things that happen in the states they get experienced to see those things. Mike Simard: So I really had to get out and see things. And so talking to people with my coaches if I, for example, I told my wife, I said, I've got, I've had a lot of coaches. She said, yeah, but Mike, you're willing to try and seek out the information you need to learn and grow. So it's okay. I have some good coaches that I've stuck with a long time, but sometimes there's like a specific learning I need. Mike Simard: So I'll read a book. I'll find an expert on it. I'll ask my friends. You know, I really then I'll usually, what I love to do is try it out on the people. It's like, Hey, I've learned this concept. Let's talk about this. Let's share, what do you think? And then what I find out is there's a enrichment to me and them back and forth in, in, in learning and growing. Mike Simard: So another thing was Napa Autocare. So the Napa Autocare was a big program for us. Because it got me off first time to Las Vegas. I mean, I, for me, I'm not a big Las Vegas guy. I mean, I know some shows go on people excited. It's like, okay. But I got to see a larger world. I got to see a new support structure. Mike Simard: So it's really nice to have support. If I fix ball joints in Alaska and the car drives to Florida, I may want my customer taken care of. So I would say coaches, group process reading John Maxwell, Patrick Lencioni. Good leaders like that. Remember I didn't have those when I was a young man, so it's like I tried something and it didn't work, so I had to go kind of figure out what it was. Mike Simard: So seeking and learning and trying to always understand, again, back how the world works now, how people work. And I'm still working on that one by the way. That's the biggest hurdle is how do I help people and 'cause it. Everybody's not the same man. It's not a car, it's not a Ford. You know, it's, people are complex and it's one of Kent Bullard: the hardest challenges. Kent Bullard: I love. I'm talking about leveraging assets and all he can talk about is gaining knowledge. Essentially. It's just give me as much information that I can use as possible. I love that. Kent Bullard: I don't think he meant tire machines, right. Kent Bullard: As you were expanding, what were some of the big developmental hurdles you had to face? Mike Simard: Well I would say that probably the biggest one again, is back to people. So how do we how do we find good leaders? How do we identify good leaders? How do we grow good leaders? You know, I would love to continue if we could focus most for energy on, and we are, we actually hired a chief people officer this year, so I'm gonna fast forward a little bit. Mike Simard: One of the things the difficulties in any area, and especially in Alaska, it's probably five to 10, 15 times harder finding talent. And there's some there's some cutthroat with good tight knit group of shops that won't do this to each other. But there's some larger brands will just say that they don't care. Mike Simard: It's just about the dollar. And they'll see how high they can go to pay to get your people. So you really have to have a strong culture. You have to have values that are lived, not just spoken. You've gotta talk about what that is. You gotta provide opportunities. This is the challenge. Mike Simard: You gotta provide opportunities for people to grow, especially in today's environment. Growing shops today, when people, you know, before COVID, I think it was three years, people would roll their box technicians, I believe. I don't know what it is now. I don't think it's improved. And I think people are encouraged to go look around right, all the time. Mike Simard: So, it's how do we provide the training and the resources? For people to grow. One of the things that we try to do now in our executive leadership team is everybody has access to a coach. Everybody has access to somebody to learn and grow and bounce their ideas off of. So I'm trying to do that. Mike Simard: We've pretty much accomplished that as well. So the other thing too is and Michael and I have talked a little about this, is, you know, again, you can run a few stores yourself and then bring up those leaders to run those stores, but after that, it gets a little tougher. And you really need area managers and you need good leaders to take care of your leaders. Mike Simard: So the biggest challenge, and that's really still my current challenge, is to be a little vulnerable, is that, how do I don't know how to articulate this, but running a few shops, being intimate with the car, fixing and doing that is hard enough. Okay, now when you've gotta grow. 10 to 11 leaders that grow, other leaders, that grow other leaders I don't know what you call that. Mike Simard: Maybe Michael has a word for that. That is a different skillset. And if I would go back now, I would spend more time on learning how to do that better. And because that's, to, to me, that's 100% one of the most important things. You don't seem, you need money to grow, but if you don't have good people, if you don't have people that care, if you don't have people that are serving your customers, I mean, you're not gonna have money. Mike Simard: So focus on the people. Focus on what you need to learn, find the people to help you learn what to do so you don't have to reinvent everything. And then figure out how to grow other people and contribute to their lives in a meaningful way. And I think the sky's the limit from that point on. Kent Bullard: I I'm drawn back to something you said in the beginning. You have a, a. Sled dog team. I do. What are some of the correlations you see between, you know, taking care of your team at in your business and taking care of your team at in the snow? Mike Simard: It's funny you asked. So, I actually have a little bit of a leadership story. Mike Simard: I tell some of the team I learned a lot. So first of all, one of the things I love to do is help people achieve their goals and dreams. And so my wife about 10 years in, up here in Alaska, she's like, and all our family's back there and our business is going right. I mean, it's, we're invested in the community. Mike Simard: And she's like, I don't know, I'm getting a little bored. She'd been staying home with the kids. Her kid has kids, had medical issues. She's involved with a college degree. She was searching out what, what's going on in her life and what her purpose was. And she so she was, I was like, oh man. Like I gotta, what are we gonna do here? Mike Simard: Like, I gotta. Stay with my wife forever. I committed forever, right? But gosh, I don't wanna move back and what am I gonna do back there? And so I I was floating down a Yukon River one day. And, we had just shot a moose as their first moose hunt up there, and we were successful and we were flown down 120 miles. Mike Simard: It was just beautiful. It's like, it's never gonna happen quite like this again. We got our moose early, we had all this time to relax. And so I had a friend of mine from church who was a, happened to be a vet which contributed a lot to my kids being doctors. He cost me a lot of money, but gave my kids a lot of a perspective of what their purpose was. Mike Simard: And so we're floating down there. I just remember, I remember almost exactly where we were the day, the temperature and everything. And he said something we had a guy named Lance Mackey, so he run the Iditarod, he won I think four back to back. Don't quote me exactly four, back to back Iditarod Yukon quests. Mike Simard: And just did stuff that no one's done. These are a thousand mile races. Okay? So you got 16 dogs and you're hanging on for dear life. There's no motors, no gasoline. Okay? And so. He said you know, 'cause Lance Mia might have been saying, oh, he owes me some money and these guys are like farmers. I had no money. Mike Simard: He said, you know, the way dogs mushers pay bills is by dogs. I don't want no dogs. Right? I got enough dogs and they get hair everywhere and all. I was complaining and my wife's a dog person. So, so here's the deal. I was like, I know how to keep my wife in Alaska. I got five champion sled dogs from a guy that's done amazing things. Mike Simard: Guinness Book, a real world record stuff. I said, hi honey. Here you go. Five beautiful sled dogs. You always had a dream to be a dog musher. Now I have 40, right? And so what it did was, I'm like I got really, she got really happy. I was happy that could contribute to her dream. And and so I'm trying to remember your question here. Mike Simard: 'cause I got oh, back to dogs. So what ended up happening was what I learned about leadership in dogs. I'm gonna tell you that. So I actually realized that going to hang out with my wife is cheaper than marital therapy. I mean, just spend some time with what they're interested in. Okay, that's super obvious, but that's my advice for anybody. Mike Simard: So I went out and I realized I actually enjoyed going out in the woods in the middle of the night, even if it's 20 below, with my wife learning how to mush dogs. And the beginning, the dogs taught us, 'cause we got a couple leaders knew what they're doing. So what I end up learning over those years is that in leadership especially, and with dogs, here's the thing, man, they know a few commands, but they do not know the English language. Mike Simard: Right? They don't even know kindergarten level. So in with dogs, you can, it's either the carrot or the stick. And so what I had to learn was the stick doesn't always work, okay? Because if you have dogs that are scared of you. Apply this to human relationships and leadership. If you have people that follow you for fear, you know, positional authority, positional leadership doesn't work. Mike Simard: So what I learned with dogs is that with dogs, they have to know you care if they know you care, you're gonna take care of them and protect them, right? It's your you're the dog musher, you're part of them, but you're also the leader of them. You're here to protect them. That, that you have to encourage them. Mike Simard: You get a dog that's nervous and he is chewing the line and used to get mad. He chews the lines, they chew 'em up and then they try to go everywhere. And you need 14 dogs all pulling the same direction. And on a dog team, you're only as fast as your slow as dog. So, I dunno if you knew all this, but if you apply this to people, you have production environment in the shop and a guy that says he wants to make his hours, but he is sabotaging the team, you're not gonna hit your numbers so you can go out and yell at him. Mike Simard: There's a stick. Well with dogs, same thing. I'm 35 miles out in the woods. It's 20 below dropping to 40. Okay? I'm warm, I'm okay. I gotta take care of my team. And I can't tell 'em, just go faster. 'cause they're like, dude, I've been running for 40 miles. I'm cold, I'm tired. So you have to know how to encourage your team. Mike Simard: And what it taught me is it's beyond English language. It's your body language, it's your encouragement. So do you have the right things? Are you removing the obstacles to your dog? You know, you got two dogs that are fighting. Why are they fighting? Well, there's personalities with dogs, but you can't just sit 'em and say, sit down and tell me about your problems. Mike Simard: So what I learned and my beautiful wife taught me in leadership and teams with the dogs is that it's the carrot of the stick principle. It's trying to understand why, you know, Jed doesn't get along with the other dog and how you can kind of move them around a little bit and all of a sudden the team is pulling hard. Mike Simard: It's 'cause they didn't like that guy or that gal behind them. And so that, that was enriching in my life to realize that, there's another level of leadership to continue to climb. And that even the dog teams, if I wanted to get home and not walk I had to learn how to encourage them and care for their needs, attend to their needs. Mike Simard: Like you would any other shop team as well? Excuse me. The noise there. Any other shop team. And that the carrots always better than the stick, or in this case, dog treats Kent Bullard: because you're kind of encouraging either your people or the dog in their respective areas of excellence, like to pursue their best self there, which has only upwards potential. Kent Bullard: Whereas if it's the stick, it's really, the limit is, well, I just don't want to get hit again, or I don't want to get yelled again, or I don't want to get punished in some sense. And so that's really the only, that's the limit. That's the, I hit the bottom at that point. There's nowhere else to go from there. Kent Bullard: Right. But there's, on the opposite end of it is nothing but upwards potential. Mike Simard: Absolutely. So it applies in a shop. So, you know, it's like we have personalities that lend to to they build rapport really fast. Those are usually your service advisors, right? And you have technicians that, that look at the world as black and white because it's either 12 and a half volts or it's not. Mike Simard: And so, you know, and looking at where the best fit and strengths of each individual is, it's just like that dog team. It's crazy, man. Not every dog is a leader. There's dogs in the back that steer the team that steer the dog sled. I mean, so you don't hit trees. And then you've got dogs behind the leaders that help the leaders pull the entire team in a direction. Mike Simard: So I remember asking some smart old mushers, and it's the same thing with our people. It's like, how do you sense, how do you know a leader in a dog world? And it's like, well, they have propensity to go forward no matter what, through adversity. Okay? They wanna please you. They wanna do what's right. Mike Simard: And if you say, gee, I mean you're coming on open water and you gotta go left. Gotta go right to your ha you gotta go left or right. Someone's drowning. So you gotta have dogs that you have a bond with. You gotta have people that you can, you gotta understand them, like they gotta know you care. Okay, well this translate, gotta figure out where they belong. Mike Simard: This, Michael Smith: and this translates back to the shop too, right? If you push people stand there and push back, right? We talk about the tugboat model doesn't work very well. And if you want 'em to go, we you're the sailboat. You put the wind in their sails and they move into it. And then they bring the best of what they have to it and they go farther faster. Michael Smith: And it's a model. And I love the fact that you learned that from the dogs. I think that's fantastic. There's a side story I want you to tell. It's a total rabbit trail, but I want you to go there. What was the gift that you gave your wife that was so special to her? For her, I think it was her birthday. Mike Simard: Oh, geez, Michael Smith: Michael. Really? You gotta tell the story. It's beautiful. Yeah. Mike Simard: Come on now it's, I gotta do this appropriately for PG audience. Kent Bullard: There Michael Smith: you go. Mike Simard: I cannot believe you asked me that. Michael Smith: You have to because it's all part of the picture of Alaska. It's beautiful, right? Mike Simard: Yeah. I don't know how this relates at all to shops, but, Michael Smith: it doesn't, but it's a great rabbit trail. Mike Simard: Well, there's actually a really good story behind it because it's serving a community and I don't know if you got this part or not, but, so again, my wife has a lot of champion sled dogs from Mitch Seay and now Joe May and Lance Mackey's, dad, Dick, these are the people that actually. Mike Simard: There with Redington, it started the Iditarod race. So if you know the Iditarod race, a thousand doll, a thousand mile race, it's the biggest race in the world. It's televised. There was a dog that Lance had and we sponsored Lance for a long time. Lance had cancer. And I mean, talk about adversity. Mike Simard: This guy had a lot of mental and physical ailments. He had cancer. His hands would get cold. He didn't, couldn't make saliva. I mean, this guy was out doing stuff that most people just wanna curl up on the couches to stay. And, but he was brilliant and he understood a team. He understood how to bring a team together. Mike Simard: This does translate. And so we worked a lot with Lance Mackey and he got really ill. I mean, at the end of his life his new wife died. He had two kids. I mean, it was just sad. I was like, gosh, this guy can not get a break. But he did amazing things through adversity 'cause he decided how to use those things to be better. Mike Simard: And really serve humanity by showing what's possible through his God-given talents, including living with his blemishes, right? With his things that he struggled with. And so he ended up passing unfortunately. And his widow needed help and have some friends that in, in, in the community and customers, and they needed to get cars fixed and generators running. Mike Simard: And I don't fix things anymore, but I still have the knack. And I went up there and I did that. I helped them get it running and for their kids, right? He's got two beautiful kids still. And it ended up being where a friend of mine had been asking for years, you know, you know Lance. Mike Simard: And there's a lot of competition by the way. Not only shop owners, but dog mushers and a 40-year-old dog mushers. You know, Lance, you know, Lance, I wanna get a hold of very important sperm. Okay? So this one dog, yeah. Now can't know where this is going. This one dog, Lance built his entire team. Mike Simard: So think about an AEC that if you could make babies and have 'em, you know, dogs can run in two to three years. Technicians take a lot of years to make. Okay. Just saying. So he had this frozen specimen of sperm, but a champion sled dog. It's in all the books, man. It's like, this is what all of these leaders of worldwide want to have a dog like this and breeding, like breeding stock. Mike Simard: Like this one dog called Zoro. You can look it up, look up Zoro, Lance Mackey. And it's expensive. Very expensive. And there was three, three breedings frozen. And I'd asked about it and tried for my friend. He wanted to see if he could get it. 'cause they don't really talk and it's like they're competitive. Mike Simard: And finally out of the blue I forgot about it. She's like, you've helped us so much. We gotta pay the taxes here. We agreed to sell you two vials, but we wanna save one vial for Lance's kits. So for a pretty penny I won't mention here. For her birthday. Yeah, Kent. I bought my wife champion. Mike Simard: Anybody would want this dog farm so we could breed with our current stock. Michael Smith: Just proof positive. Proof positive. You two ended up in the right place. I gotta say that. Right. That's a great story. Kent Bullard: You have a way of going and finding exactly what you need to invest in the opportunity for the people you care about. Kent Bullard: And I see that in that story and also in your approach with, you know, your team and what you're doing there. As you know, this whole series is really about looking at the decisions that shape industries, right? You are doing something that is gonna be massively impactful and not just in your community, but this is going to change kind of how our industry works. Kent Bullard: That's what happens, right? And I see a lot of correlation with this. Like, we've got adversity, but I'm investing in people. A lot of these interviews we've done over the past couple days are, it's all people focused. Michael Smith: The people. The people at the top of the game that get it, understand the power of the human factor and the interest in tapping into it. Michael Smith: And Michael, your history, your intuition, the practices that you developed and the leading edge that you all are on now. All this is just proof positive, watching you be able to grow and take territory and dream big and actually see how you're gonna get there from here. This is extraordinary. Kent Bullard: So, so going back let's go back to the shop, back to the business. Kent Bullard: As you're growing, what has been the impact on your team having pursued this growth about saying, Hey, we're gonna see that mountain over there, we're gonna go climate. What's been the impact on your team? Mike Simard: Well, first of all, I think, I think one of the things that I constantly astonishes me is that now this assumes you have vision, okay? Mike Simard: So with, without vision, the people shall perish, right? So it's important that you have vision and you cast a vision. And so if you don't know what that vision is, there's people that can help you find it, you know, they'll show up at the right time. So what happens though is that when you have people that believe in the vision, and it should be bigger than you, right? Mike Simard: The purpose has to be bigger than you. It has to be more to serve just you. If you're not right with that, start there and find out what are your operating principles and what your values are. But it's amazing what people will do when there's adversity, when they believe in what you're doing and they're doing it not just to serve themself because they believe that it actually is impactful to. Mike Simard: Humans to people and they care. You gotta get people around you that care about people. You gotta pay the bills. But we have a saying, you know, if you take care of the people, the money should come. If you do the right thing, the money should come. If you fi, if you take care of a customer, the money should come. Mike Simard: And so you can charge more for that. If you need to pay your people more for that, like get 'em out of poverty, whatever it's gonna take, get 'em health insurance when it's a struggle to get health insurance. Like, don't stop fighting. And so, but you've gotta figure out what gets you outta bed. And the thing is that you've gotta have people, and this is the hard part, I think this isn't easy, right? Mike Simard: So it's like being a best basketball player, dog musher. I mean, nobody, dude, I did, we did a hundred miles in two days. Once. I'm like, this sucks a hundred miles on a bag of a dog. So 50 miles each way. You don't sleep as much as the dogs 'cause they get to go sleep. After you feed 'em, you gotta go take care of yourself. Mike Simard: So. You've gotta be able to take care of others. First. Leaders eat last, right? And so, having good vision and then really with the people, you'll see them step up. When, especially if you're willing to go first, fight for them. I think that's the most important to surround yourself with good people. Mike Simard: And then really supplement. You know, if you're not strong in an area, find someone that is Michael Smith: so, so Michael, not everybody steps up. I'm not telling you something you don't know. How long do you wait? What process do you go through? How much redemption until remedial? What's your model that you operate? Mike Simard: So I'll tell you how I handle it because I have superpowers and I have kryptonites, and Kent Bullard: I think Michael leads me into these questions. I'm be Superman without being alert. You know, you gotta have weak to kryptonite. So Mike Simard: Michael knows what he's doing with these questions. One thing, it's a gift and a curse. Mike Simard: I don't like to give up on people. I don't like to give up on anybody. And so the gift side of it, you kinda know your gifts and your weaknesses. And so with people I have been told I have a knack to help people find hope. I'm good at that. I can help you find hope that you didn't know you had about something. Mike Simard: But you still have to do the work. So how long, you know, I haven't figured it out, but I tell you I have people that know that around me. So I've surrounded myself with a good team that I will always say, have we done everything we could to make this person successful? Have we coached them? Have we given 'em the tools? Mike Simard: And sometimes the answer's no, which is, that's what keeps me up at night, you know, people and paying the bills. But it's like, if someone leaves us, did we do the right thing? You know, what could we learn? Is it us or them? You know, it's usually a mix, right? Could we have led them better? You know, the best kind of departures I'd say if, you know, not knowing, but if you could do it in a way that makes them better, if you left some something in their life that, or gave them something in their life that, that they can improve on, or I should say that they can carry forward that I would say that's a win. Mike Simard: But to answer you, Michael the people around me see it before me and I'll push back for a while and then I've learned to trust them. I'm like, okay Michael Smith: finally, surrender. Yeah. Yeah. But I also want to hear you reflect on this when you determine they're toxic, you have no tolerance for that. Michael Smith: It's like you, you fully understand the power of the high performance culture. And I've watched you guys, when you finally determine that person is toxic, there, there's no space for, I mean, that's done at that point. Yep. It's time. It's time to put an end to this thing. You don't let the cancer stay and Mike Simard: grow. Mike Simard: Nope. Nope. And so, you know, a lot of times what the problem is, I think is if, look, if someone steals from a customer, it's obvious. We have a core value of integrity, do the right thing, even when it's looking, if you can't trust them and it's obvious, that's an easy one. But a lot of times though, it's the self-sabotage that they're doing or the the little things they're doing to the team that are more subtle. Mike Simard: It's like, did you just see something over there? Like, I don't know. I thought I did. I thought I heard something. Then if you start digging and looking, so getting the team to stay vi vigilant to making sure that they're getting to know their people. Because we're all people, right? We're all broken in some way, right? Mike Simard: So, but we can't help everybody. And that's the other challenge I had to learn. But that's the harder, more subtle part of the leadership aspect and building teams that, that we gotta continue to look for and we talk about it. I mean, we talk about our values every day and what I ask the teams a lot of times I said, do you just talk about it? Mike Simard: Do you just read it or do you engage? Do you ask them, you know, tell me about someone that showed integrity yesterday. So really it's trying to help people think teach them to think and really unified in in who we are. So, l Lou Holtz said a great thing, you know, I'm a better leader, but better players. Mike Simard: So the stronger people you can get, the people that believe in your mission, your vision, your purpose are gonna, the people that are gonna be there when tough times come. And, you know, at the end of the day too, when tough times come you're gonna know who friends are. And so, that's really, I think something that helps build character is going through hard times together, also builds trust. Mike Simard: So I think it's super important that you show them as a leader. It's like, you know what? This sucks. We're gonna make it through. And let's go. Michael Smith: And when you do your recruiting, you know when you buy somebody, when you go out and find somebody who's a senior person in the industry from somewhere else, you get all their wonder, but you also get all their problems too. Michael Smith: And all the other bad training they have and all the other bad cultural tenants and all that stuff comes along with 'em. You're gaining scale. That's seven plus stores on your way up to a very large number. You can begin to train internally and you can begin to have a pipeline for the younger. Guys, gals that come that are super talented, that you can then grow up into your culture and teach these tenants along the way. Michael Smith: And it's very powerful to watch that happen, especially in Alaska where the talent's hard to come by, you know, and also hard to import, right? You live a long way away from the lower 48. Not everybody wants to make that jump to minus 25 in the wintertime, right? So it's very powerful with the strength of your culture that you have and the way you roll, being able to grow from within. Michael Smith: It's a very strong model that you guys have. Mike Simard: They were actually started down and we're actually measuring now a number of internal promotions. So we're trying to get some other things solidified, like training programs and some development conversations with some performance metrics. So we can recognize who's really contributing and in an impactful way make sure the tools are happening. Mike Simard: And so one of the things that we decided to measure. As an output of our effort is number of promotions in the company. So it's exactly right. We have I think six apprentices now. And I was just thinking about this last night. I said, we gotta come up with the math of how many apprentices we want to build a year for our growth plans. Mike Simard: And yes, like you said, Michael it's really easier I think, in a way to home grow people. And so we wanna accelerate that pathway of homegrown good quality people that like to come to work, like to work as a team, like to have a challenge, like to live our purpose and values. And I just really enjoy like giving my wife those dogs and helping other leaders grow. Mike Simard: I mean, that's why I get outta bed in the morning. It's not because of, you know, the problems. I mean, problems come as leaders. That's our job to help our people solve them and teach them. But I just really give the joy when someone can make a career outta this. And you know, my kids just two of them graduated four year business degree. Mike Simard: Okay. We can take a technician. They can make quite a bit more money, depends on their capacity, right? Than a BA in school, I can tell you. Without a hundred thousand dollars stinking low. And so that just gives me great joy to be able to do that. And that's what's gonna, that's really gonna set us apart, I think, as we grow, is that we're investing in our people. Kent Bullard: Not only that, but I think you're setting an example for not only, well, I mean yeah, the industry, but excuse me. You're not only setting an example for the industry, but you're setting an example for society in a sense, because now you're, you are able to show that there's a pathway other than, and not to disparage college, right. Kent Bullard: Or the higher education. But you're gonna show mothers and parents that their kids can actually have a very successful career in our industry. 'cause you're pro, you're proving that and that's gonna speak volumes into, you know. I mean that, that is far reaching consequences in the best way. Kent Bullard: You know, I'm not antico Mike Simard: at all. I wasn't exposed to it and you know, I'll be honest with you, if I probably if I probably had gone to college, I'd probably be like an er, emergency surgeon guy. Like, I want to be the guy right there at the point of death to see if I can save you. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Simard: That would be, because I think the adrenaline and would remind me of running a shop. Okay, there's a hundred things. Kent Bullard: It's Michael Smith: like, it's one of two ways to get that adrenaline excitement there er doctor, and owning a shop, right? Mike Simard: Yeah. And so, that's what, how do we do that better? To me it's, yeah, growing, but it all is through how do we serve our people better? Mike Simard: How do we train them better? How do we have people that really are excited to go on the journey with us? And how do we apprentice people? We were just talking last night, Michael, about the model, leadership intensive about you take a store manager into running five shops. Tara and I were talking about it. Mike Simard: Now they're apprentice again. And then we're like, you know, she's like, wonder what we should do to apprentice them because sure, they got a pay raise, but new skillset, and we might actually talk to you about that, Michael, but it's like, we want to help people go through the promotions. Mike Simard: A tech from the back to the front, that's another example. Like, that's a huge chasm. So we're working on how do we build programs to help get them there and give them some success and 'cause that's really the name of the game. So we're gonna, we're gonna count this next year how many promotions we could do internally. Mike Simard: And we have a ratio of how many internal hires versus external hires. And that way we know, I think that we're, our training programs are not just in, in a playbook or that we're actually as leaders growing our people. And so we're trying to find ways to measure what that looks like so we can have a sense of achievement. Mike Simard: Recognition as well. Michael Smith: Well, and you, we'll get to this later, but you have a high store count ownership count in your future and, well, you said something earlier, I just didn't wanna lose. You're trying to figure out now how many apprentices do we have to start with now based on the growth strategy that we have to be able to fill the pipeline with the family at all these different levels as we grow? Michael Smith: I mean, that, that is strategic planning like many of us don't have the opportunity to do. Right. And so I just didn't want that to go by. That's very interesting. Kent Bullard: I mean, as of today, you're. Seven locations. Right. But what does the end look like? Michael Smith: Yeah. Okay. Now's the time. What's the end look like? Michael Smith: What do you thinking? End Mike Simard: of what? Life. Hopefully a nice, beautiful light. Someone named Jesus, whatever you deem as me. Michael Smith: Yeah. End of this Kent Bullard: chapter. You know, like what, what does that look like? End Michael Smith: of the growth run? Yeah. Kent Bullard: Employees. Oh, that in you the best Michael Smith: of friend? Yeah. We're bringing it in from Jesus. Michael Smith: We're bringing it a little closer. Okay. So Mike Simard: the end. Well that's a great question. I tell you what the first of all is how do we expand our influence in the state? This is a tough state. We have a lot of local knowledge and there's a lot of need out there now. There's a lot of need out. Believe it or not. Mike Simard: There's places that you can't drive to in the, we call it the bush, that there's a lot of need out there. And there's companies like Napa and there's oil pipelines and there's a lot of natural resource places that they need a lot of tires. They need a lot of service and they'll pay whatever it takes 'cause they don't have it there. Mike Simard: So we could. We gotta mature. Okay. But we could possibly expand. You know, I've got a shop, I guess I won't say too much, but I have shops all over the state. It's huge. It's like from Minnesota to stinking tip of Florida all the way to the panhandle of Texas. And so, we have a lot of opportunity to serve in those remote areas. Mike Simard: That's, that comes with a lot of logistics. Just having shops in Anchorage and Fairbanks is like, it might as well be Seattle. I mean, it's the same, it takes six hours to drive there. So we're trying to figure that out. And we are figuring out, we have hired some leaders in Anchorage as well to grow continue to grow. Mike Simard: And we're not doing it just to swallow up other shops. Like it's not gonna just like, we're gonna take 'em out and be the lowest bidder. It's like, how do we help other shops? So what does it look like? How do we help other shops? How do we, how do we have a mutual relationship, you know, like a Napa, BDG group. Mike Simard: We wanna make some connections, hopefully in Anchorage and get to know people there. And anything that we can help contribute, we think's gonna help the community and the society. And you know, and here's why I think it's like, well, why would you teach them some of your secrets? I'm not gonna teach 'em all our secrets and all our strategic plans, but we can help them find text, for example. Mike Simard: Because, you know, most people, I wrote this down earlier, most people won't pay the price. So there's a sacrifice to wanna do something meaningful in your life. And doing things meaningful requires going through difficult times and doing hard things and getting up before someone else wants to. So, you know, they have to be able to do the work. Mike Simard: And so where are we gonna go? I'd like to be able to share whatever success I have with the leaders that I have. That's one most important thing. If I. If I was to die tomorrow, I wanna make sure that everybody here is taken care of, all 75 employees and their family. So that's the immediate monetary stuff. Mike Simard: I want to grow a company that scales to a point where you know, someday I'm gonna retire. And you know, how's that gonna look? I tell you how it's gonna look. And it may be dollars and lots of zeros and that's great. That's fine. But the most important thing is that whatever happens to the people and the teams that we built the culture of anybody was to buy us or invest in us or take it over internally, whatever that looks like when my time is done they have to take care of the people with the same values that we did. Mike Simard: Or else it's not worth selling. I don't care how many zeros because I can't take the zeros and the millions of dollars to the coffin. I guess you could. But that's where the other end comes in hopefully. Sure. Michael Smith: Let's, let me add this question to it too. Michael. You all are very busy in your communities. Michael Smith: It's, you're taking care of your team, you're growing them. You love your customers, and you work hard at that. You're also active at the community because you believe fully in what you're talking about. You walked this talk. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the things that you've done in the past and some of the projects that you've gotten involved in to touch the folks even outside of the customer group, right. Michael Smith: You're stretching beyond that to make a difference. Mike Simard: Yeah. A few things recently and one of the more impactful things that we wanna do more of is like I just had Jay and my brother Rob and one of our technicians go to a local high school. And they got pretty excited 'cause they showed up how to run a lap scope. Mike Simard: That's something that we're getting a lot of ATECs that, you know, they still don't, they don't know how to use those technologies. And so we get to show 'em a little bit of advanced technologies and show 'em, you know, not because we wanna hire 'em. I mean, that'd be great, but it's like, we just wanna, we wanna show you again. Mike Simard: We wanna show you what's out there in the world, so they get to go see them the other day. We also belong to a, the community technical college. I highly recommend that people look at seeing what you could do to support your technical college. You know, they're there to support industry. I think last night there was most people in that room from all shops are getting together and saying, how do we help? Mike Simard: You know, there's a major crisis for good top talent. We know that as crisis, I don't know if I like that word, there's a problem. It's always been there, but it's just it varies and it's difficult. And how do we grow more top talent? So what I'm excited about is finally is we have an apprenticeship with NAPA program. Mike Simard: It's a good program and we actually expand it and multiply 10 times the money they recommend you give to technicians. We spend 10,000 on tax for tools, for example. But the community technical colleges now finally talking about apprenticeship and the cool part is what I'm really excited about. You have military as a feeder. Mike Simard: There's this I think skill path maybe that's the wrong word, the program to get 'em into programs like this. The community technical college is a great program. And I believe my vision of coupled with apprenticeship, okay. OJT on the JOBB training, which isn't always formalized in all communities. Mike Simard: Some communities I heard have this, okay. If your community doesn't have it, I'd recommend that you go out and look and see how do I really get people in the shop that get their education component? Right. Figure out how to help with that and really keep 'em in the stores working for you and growing them. Mike Simard: Michael, like you were talking about, and that excites me. Now, there's also other components of the high school wants to see the people that don't wanna go to school, get further education and can, you know, have a good career. And there's actually the labor board, so all these people aren't necessarily talking together in some communities, the labor board's, like we got a lot of money in grants that we want to give to people to help them have a great career. Mike Simard: I'm like, can we just get all you in a room and do apprenticeship? 'cause apprenticeship is like, apprenticeship is better than the college and the college's like college is better than the apprenticeship, the labor board's. Like, we got all this money and we don't know how to give it away. I'm like, how would we get together and figure that all out and help people get started in industry that you know, you gotta have a bunch of tools start fixing cars. Mike Simard: Your wages aren't that high. You can go to McDonald's and Walmart and get x. That's what you hear today, right? And so how do we do that? I think it's getting together with community one more thing that's super impactful. We actually kinda, I didn't expect this to work so well, but we did a kinda a fundraiser thing where our rewards points you could donate your rewards points to a community. Mike Simard: Cause, so we picked the stone soup kitchen. So we picked these people because, and we've done some work at the food bank and volunteer packing boxes. Really good team exercise. I loved that. But they're like, let's do something like right where the people that have no jackets are no food tonight. And so we went in there and said, I got another dog musher, you know, I just found someone, Hey, people know who you are. Mike Simard: Would you just get on TV and let's go together and see if we can call people to action. And so we donated some money to them, but the impactful thing, I didn't realize what happened is, they get on there and said what the stone soup kitchen's doing? And, you know, come on down and help them. Mike Simard: This is where their needs are. So we didn't focus on us. And we served a couple times with them, which was great. Talking to real people on the street, man, like literally don't have a jack and don't have food. And that really helps change your perspective too, by the way. When you're, you know, sitting in your nice warm house and you think you've got problems and you're like, you don't even have a house. Mike Simard: It's Michael Smith: good. It's good for the team to be involved in that too, because it really keeps us all connected with what all of society around us looks like. So, yeah. That's great. Great. If Kent Bullard: if there's any technicians out there listening to this. Podcast, for some reason they stumbled upon, I've never heard of a better sales pitch for a company to go work for. Kent Bullard: I mean, somebody who's gonna invest in you and believe in you and basically put everything that they can into your future. I mean, that's, there you go from the heart just to hop and to skip up to Alaska. And it's from the heart. Michael Smith: It's the real deal. It's not just a program. Right. Michael Smith: So, I want to, thanks for sharing. Michael. Kent Bullard: I wanna pivot 'cause we're about, at that time. I'd love to do kind of a lightning round, Mike, if you'll humor me. Okay. I'm gonna ask you some we're three questions, Mike Simard: firm birthday, present questions warn me. Kent Bullard: No. Okay. So we're gonna do a lightning round here. Kent Bullard: How has your growth, what's the biggest way that your growth has affected your leadership? Mike Simard: The growth of the company and my leadership in the company. Again, the biggest thing is I have to help leaders at the top stay connected with the leaders at the bottom, if you will. And so how do we stay connected and still know each other? Mike Simard: This isn't a corporate company. We have certify employees. I mean, it's corporation, but it's like the biggest thing is how do we stay connected with our people and what they need. And so, that's constant conversation that I'll ask every single day. And we keep seeking out information great coaches to make sure that we're doing that. Mike Simard: How do you measure success? Well, one of the ways simple's walking the shop and seeing smiley faces, customers are happy. Like, are we taking care of our people? Period. Now, can we pay the bills? I mean, look it's equally important, but you can't do one without the other. So if you put the money first, people see through that. Mike Simard: So success to me is doing something meaningful in life affecting the people in a positive way around you? And if you can do that and make money, I mean, that's awesome. There's my way. Kent Bullard: And last question over your career or even your lifetime, what is the best decision that you have made? Kent Bullard: The best Mike Simard: decision I have made, honestly, there's a couple things from personal love. I married my wife. Marriage is not easy. It's work. But I tell you what, she has changed me. Look man, she made me eat like lettuce and lentils and like she kept, she's keeping me alive and she keeps me centered and she compliments me. Mike Simard: And also another relationship of commitment through adversity. You know, and the other thing too is really meeting, look man. If I hadn't, if I hadn't listened to Dan Gilly and LER and then Michael Smith come in my life and all my friends in the merger and acquisition groups I don't know if I'd have a business today. Mike Simard: So the personal side and learning how to do business and that business isn't just about money. It's about people and treating people well. And if you're doing your pa, if doing what you're passionate about and trying your best to finally live your purpose, the money should just come. And honestly, you should have a little bit of fun more days than not. Mike Simard: So, I think meeting guys like you guys and all that you guys have done to contribute to our life and how it's trickling down through other communities across the country in Burbanks, Alaska is is hugely impactful. Michael Smith: There's nothing we'd rather do either than what we're doing together. This is great stuff. Michael Smith: So. Thank you Mike. Mike Simard: Appreciate Michael Smith: you guys. Kent Bullard: Thank you, Mike. Mike, thank you so much. I understand how busy you are and everything that you're doing. I just wanna express my appreciation for the time that you've devoted to this and coming and talking with myself and with Michael today. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this. Kent Bullard: This has been fantastic. Michael Smith: Now go buy some more shops, you guys, right? And then go buy some more shops. Now go buy some more shops. Mike Simard: I'm gonna work on that. Yes, sir, definitely fine. Thanks Kent. Thanks Michael. Michael Smith: Thanks buddy. It's good to see you. Those who are Kent Bullard: listening, if you enjoyed the content that we discussed today, if you wanna be a part of this conversation with us and see about how we can maybe help you get pointed in the right direction, or if you have something to offer those who are seeking this guidance. Kent Bullard: Please, we invite you to join this conversation in the comments below by liking and sharing this content so others can benefit from this opportunity and this valuable insight. Please help us out and again, if you want more information about what we do at the institute, you can visit us at We are the institute.com. Kent Bullard: Mike, again, thank you so much for being here today. Mike Simard: Take care, friend. Thanks guys. Have a wonderful day. Michael Smith: You too. See you soon.

160 - How Mindset and Innovation Drove the Growth of Quality Auto Repair with David Marks October 15, 2025 - 00:48:47   Show Summary: David Marks of Quality Auto Repair joins Jimmy Lea to talk about his journey from working out of his backyard to running a successful three-bay shop in Overland, Missouri. He shares how learning the language of business through SCORE mentorship helped him secure funding and build his shop from the ground up. David opens up about mindset, the law of attraction, and how believing in himself pushed him from vision to reality. He discusses innovation through virtual assistants, reinsurance programs, and car sales that create new revenue streams for his business. The conversation also explores financial honesty, leadership, and the value of trust and transparency with employees. David closes with a call for greater camaraderie among shop owners and a reminder that success begins with mindset and accountability.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): David Marks, Owner of Quality Auto Repair   Show Highlights: [00:00:54] - David explains how his stepfather inspired his hands-on work ethic and love for fixing things. [00:04:55] - Time spent working in a parts warehouse became one of his biggest business advantages later on. [00:07:09] - How a SCORE mentor helped him understand business finance and secure his first bank loan. [00:10:22] - The law of attraction that took him from a backyard garage to a full shop. [00:13:57] - Discussing financial honesty, team involvement, and long-term planning. [00:15:05] - Core values of accountability, trust, transparency, and innovation displayed on his shop banner. [00:16:41] - Using a virtual assistant to handle marketing, social media, and customer follow-ups. [00:25:07] - Building a reinsurance company to cover comebacks and reinvest tax-free profits. [00:28:13] - Expanding with car sales and rentals to diversify income and strengthen customer relationships. [00:43:21] - Advocating for more camaraderie among shop owners and less negativity in online industry groups.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend, Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is David Marks, and he's joining from Quality Auto Repair. Now you live in Overland Park, but where's your shop? No, I'm in Overland Missouri. Overland Missouri. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, dude, I was thinking you were in Kansas. I was like, Uhhuh. Wait a second, isn't it shop in like St. Louis, Missouri? David Marks: Yeah, I'm west of St. Louis. Oh, okay. I'm in St. Louis County. Jimmy Lea: Missouri. David, welcome. I'm so glad you're here. So glad to be able to connect with you as talk man. We've known each other for oh, more than a minute. Jimmy Lea: I, I remember when you were do, man. I wanna say you were just starting out, but I don't think you were starting out. I think you were still wrenching in the shop for a lot of it. David Marks: Yeah, it wa was, that was me. You know, we got connected at Vision. I started to go into vision and it's a progression. David Marks: Jimmy, you know, I think it's mindset. It's that entrepreneurial mindset. It's growth authority, mindset. How do I get, you know, the goal is to get, the intention is to wake up every day. And be 1% better than I was the day before. You know, do I always, oh, I love that. You know, do I always accomplish that? David Marks: Hell no. You know, but that's the intention and that's, you know, you know, it's, you know, I was with Kakuy and then going to vision and being affiliated with the, you know, industry trade groups. That's that growth oriented, you know, mindset. Yeah, and I still remember the stuff that you talked about in those classes. David Marks: I've what's really cool about what you talked Jimmy, is it applies to business in general. It wasn't specific to the industry. 'cause a lot of the stuff you talked about. You know, I've taught all their business owners that like, Hey, Jimmy said this. My buddy said this. I said this. Yeah. Because it's so true. David Marks: You know, I think, you know, 80% of business is pretty, is in industry specific. Yeah. There's that 20% that is industry specific, and there's a lot of stuff that you taught can be applied to. I don't care what business you're in, we're all in the people business at the, you know, big picture. So how do we apply this to people? Jimmy Lea: I totally agree, man. Thanks for saying that, David. Yeah, I really appreciate that. It's been years and years that we've been doing these dish trainings and you're right. It's business applicable regardless of what program you're in or what stage you're in or whatever. So thank you for saying that. Jimmy Lea: Um, I wanna dig that's a bit about, you're an I pass, but what about your pass? Where did you start? How did you start in the automotive aftermarket? Were you turning a wrench? Were you at high school? Did you have a tech program? How did you get started in automotive? David Marks: My mom's second husband really influenced me. David Marks: I'm sure I'm like, I'm sure a lot of people were late outta high school. I didn't not want to go to college. I was done with school and I didn't want like a dead end job. So my mom's second husband, he had a handyman business. Jimmy Lea: And I started commercial. Like commercial and residential. Yeah. David Marks: He was a carpenter. David Marks: He would just, he just kind of a, he could kind of fix almost whatever was in front of him. So I started working with him and found out that I really like working with my hands. So I got into, so I got into automotive because a lot of days working with him, if we had outside work and it rained, we couldn't work, but. David Marks: Automotive, we're kind of, we're not dependent on weather. You know, we can work, we Jimmy Lea: have a roof, David Marks: we got a roof over our head, you know, and I saw as a way to, you know, have a skill, have a trade, you know, make a good income and not do the traditional college route. So I went through, um, rank in tech here in St. David Marks: Louis in the late nineties. Yeah. Then like I, you know, I bounced around like I think a lot of people do. I've got experience working in franchise dealers at the, all the franchise dealers here in St. Louis. They're all unionized. So I've got that experience. Worked at big box stores, worked at Independence. David Marks: I tell you what, the biggest thing that I did that I had no clue at the time I was doing that benefited me is I worked at an independent parts store. I worked at an auto value bumper to bumper parts warehouse, you know, before I got my business started. That experience. Okay. Pay dividends that you can't put on a balance sheet. David Marks: Okay. It's an asset because I know parts, I speak parts and I know exactly how to play the game with the parts stores and get away with it. Jimmy Lea: Interesting. David Marks: You know, it's, that is Jimmy Lea: interesting. I've never had anybody say that before. So you could, if anybody, you could get that part and you could look at the part and you'd be like wrong one. Jimmy Lea: Use news. Jimmy Lea: It's David Marks: understanding. It's understanding how to look 'em up. How to look up parts and know what's really in that box and it's play the game with the parts houses. Oh yeah, totally. You know, like I, you guys eat this part and here's why and not cross the line. Dang. You know? And it's about building relationships because being on that side of the fence, and now that I'm on this side of the fence, I've got a lot of good relationships on that, being on that side that have paid dividends and it's just for sure have to look stuff up. David Marks: I can look stuff up very quickly and it's so that way too. When I call the parts stores, I speak their language. Yeah. Everything has its own language. You know, auto repair has its own language. Auto parts has its own language and it taught me a lot. Like it taught me the metric system. It taught me how to speak, how to, you know, here's what hex size is like if I'm ordering nuts and bolts, I speak that language. David Marks: When you speak the language of the business you're doing business with, you get really good service and that's what it taught me. Jimmy Lea: And I don't care. You get put a lot faster too. That's good. You get down the road a lot faster because you're speaking the same language. Your communication is flawless there. Jimmy Lea: Yes. So, so you went from shop to shop. Then you went to the parts store and then what year is this now that you step out and say, okay, that entrepreneurial bug has bit and I am going to take the leap. David Marks: So I bought a garage with the house in the front yard is how I guess. Whoa. I got started my back. David Marks: I bought my gr If you look up on Zillow, my garage has more square footage than my house. I bought every single guy's dream house. I literally, you know, so I was working at the parts store at the time. Okay. And they knew I used to work for one of their customers, so they had me working on their delivery trucks, evenings and weekends. David Marks: I was making really good money, Jimmy, doing it. I got really good at working on Ford Rangers and S tens. So about a year or so goes, they pulled that away from me for what reason? I don't know. And I got used to making that extra money. So somebody told me that, Hey, people advertise auto repair or car work on Craigslist. David Marks: So I started advertising on Craigslist and I started getting work. I got an LLC, I worked my ass off every evening and night, and then I wean myself off the parts store. Because I wanted, I went all in on my backyard gig, okay? And then some time went by and I wanted to, I got nine. I got three tickets in nine years from the municipality working on my backyard garage. David Marks: But I didn't care what I was doing. I didn't care. So, you know, eventually, you know, I wanted to get a storefront, a brick and mortar. I didn't wanna work on my backyard, so I went to some banks to try to get a loan and they all looked at my stuff like it was Egypts and hieroglyphics, you know, the profit statement of the balance sheet. David Marks: I had no clue what I was doing. I didn't know that I didn't know what I didn't know. So I'm a huge advocate for score. It's a free mentorship program from the SBA Society, um, society score. Society. Society of course, of retired executives. That's beautiful. And I got hooked up. I got hooked up with a gentleman named Gary Deacon. David Marks: He owned multiple bus dealerships. Okay. So he taught me business. He taught me, this is how you put together a p and l. This is how you put together a balance sheet. And we worked on that. And then I went back to the bank. And he helped me write a business plan, and I got approved for a loan. David Marks: You know, so nice. We took, I took warehouse space and turned it into a shop. I built a shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's awesome. It didn't, David Marks: It wasn't moving ready. We built it. David Marks: And bought the lifts. I rent from an HVAC company, my landlord's HVAC company, so he is another guy like me, super real. He bought a building with the intent of doing what he's doing. David Marks: So we split it and we built the shop. Whoa. It wasn't, yeah. So I'm super proud of what I was able to do there, and I opened, oh my gosh. With just me. Jimmy Lea: And key point here. Communication using their language. You had to learn the language of business and finance. Yes. Yes. And once you did with that score, with this gentleman with the bus stations? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Or bus he owned bus David Marks: dealerships. He owned three bus dealerships. Jimmy Lea: Dude, bro, once you speak their language, you were in you probably the same bankers, and they were just impressed with the turnaround of you in a short amount of time for you. You got approved for a loan, you converted a warehouse. Jimmy Lea: By the way, that's a heavy lift. I'm, that's. David Marks: Yeah, my building where at did not look like what it is. You know, we had to put up a demising wall. We had to lay a floor, you know, do a bunch of electrical work, buy lifts, paint, build a bathroom, build a front office. Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: Wow. So, and is that the location that you are still in today? David Marks: I'm still there today and I opened it up by myself. It was just me. I was a one man band. Jimmy Lea: How many lifts, how many bays you, David Marks: We got three. Three bays, two tacks. Jimmy Lea: Nice. So that's the current layout, three basic. That's the David Marks: current layout. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So when you were doing it and you got the space, it was three lifts and one tech you? David Marks: It was me. It was me, myself, and I. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. How long were you solopreneur this before you finally hired another tech? David Marks: So I hired my real tech, I'm gonna say November. I opened this up in April, 2019, and I hired my real tech during COVID. It was November, 2020. And you know, that took time. You know, I had to learn, you know, Jimmy, I had to learn, you know, and I hired some, I'm gonna call 'em some car lot technicians. David Marks: You know, and it just, and Jimmy I had to, I think. We gotta bet on us. The reason. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Totally agree. David Marks: The reason it took me, what it took to even move from backyard to brick and mortar, it's just having faith in myself. I'm a huge believer in the law of attraction. The law of attraction and manifestation is what put me from backyard to brick and mortar. David Marks: 'cause Jimmy, I love it. This, so I'm at my house right now 'cause so right behind you, I would literally sit out here for 10 minutes a day. While I was working in my backyard gig working with Gary, I believe I'll have a three bay brick and mortar repair business in Maryland Heights. I did that every day for 10 minutes, and it happened when I went to the how, when I, how I got my money from the bank is I went to the bank for something completely unrelated to, to, um, A loan business loan. David Marks: A business loan. No. Me and Gary were working on a business plan to borrow the money, right? Yes. This is exactly how the law of attraction works. You gotta know what you want. You gotta be committed to the process and have faith. Oh my gosh, no. You gotta be of clarity, commitment, and certainty. David Marks: Okay. You know what you want and certainly you're gonna get it. And the clarity part is, and the commitment part is do the work. Do the work. Jimmy is I questioned Gary. I would ask Gary questions, but I never questioned Gary. Jimmy Lea: Yes. And there's a difference. And I understand the difference. David Marks: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You are asking questions to understand, not asking questions, to challenge. David Marks: No, I never questioned him when he, you know, he owned a $300 million business and sold it for $60 million. So that means you know what you're doing. Jimmy Lea: Yes. David Marks: Okay. Okay. And he was just a really good guy. And we clicked. So Jimmy was a, it was, you know, I knew what I wanted. I was committed doing the work, and I was certain it was gonna happen. David Marks: I just didn't know when, because I walked into the bank for something completely different. Me and Gary worked on this business plan. Next thing you know, I'm approved for $198,000 score and I used one 60 of that is what I did. I used one 60 of the 1 98 is what it took. And I've already paid that all back. Jimmy Lea: So it took one 60 to convert the warehouse Yeah. To what you've got today. Yep. And this is probably like a 10 year note or a 15 year note. No, it was a David Marks: five year note. Jimmy Lea: It's a five year note. How quickly did you get this five year note paid? David Marks: I got it. So, when I got my EDIL loan from COVID is what I used to pay off most of it. David Marks: So I had it technically, I had it paid off from US Bank in three years. Um, good. That's righteous. But you know, indirectly I stole the SBAI think like 90 grand or 89,000 or something like that. I'd have to look at my statements. I don't know that number off the top of my head. Right. When I got an EDIL loan for COVID, I took that and I paid off three of the loans. Jimmy Lea: Bingo. There you go. There, it reduces that monthly nut. You've got a crack. Yeah, it helps tremendously. So today you've got the three bays, the two text, you have an advisor. David Marks: No, not yet. That's been the toughest position to fail. So are you? Yeah, that's been the toughest position for me to fail. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Jimmy Lea: So are you the advisor, like David Marks: Yeah, I'm doing it right now. So I've got a guy lined up, so I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get real, you know, Jimmy, I've made a lot of mistakes, mismanaging money. Okay. I have, and I've got bad debt on my balance sheet, on short term liabilities. Okay. Okay. And what's really cool is that I can, you know, the best way to be honest with ourselves is to be honest with somebody else. David Marks: So I'm gonna, being honest, you know, it's the best way. Yeah. So I've learned from that and I've learned, I've had six advisors myself. My lead tech did it for about eight months. He killed it. He absolutely killed it. He just doesn't want to do it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. David Marks: Yeah. Um, he just doesn't wanna do it, but he did really good. David Marks: And then I've had four others, so I've learned a lot. So I've got a gentleman, I've got a friend of mine that's working at a place that got bought by private equity. He doesn't wanna work there anymore. But I've, but we've talked and I've gotta, we put together a timeline on when I can bring him on board, but it's, I need to pay off my short-term liabilities. David Marks: I need to pay off my bad debt. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. David Marks: And I'm working progress and I'm working at it. I got a plan and this all goes towards, I think this very spiritual, the law of attraction. Okay. You gotta know what you want. And it's betting on me. It's believing that, Hey, I can really do all this and I can make this happen. David Marks: When you have that, dude, you can do anything you want. Totally agree. And I'm there because we're making good progress on it, and I agree. My lead tech, he keeps keep, he keeps hounding me for an advisor. 'cause I'm not the best at it. I'm not. Am I good? Yes. Am I best? Hell no. You know, but I've been open and honest with these guys about the financials. David Marks: This is where the company's sitting financially. And when we do this, we can get this, and this. Because the job of a business owner is to provide a better experience for the vendors, the employees, and the customers. Okay. That's what we do. I'm in the business of offering an experience, so I told them, if we can do this, then I can provide a better experience, a real advisor. David Marks: Okay, now they understand why. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love that that transparency, that trust, that clarity. Yeah. The accountability that you're placing. Those are my core David Marks: values. What you just said are the core values I have hanging on a banner in the shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. And what are they? David Marks: Enough said three of 'em. David Marks: Except I said except innovation. Accountability, trust, transparency, and innovation. Jimmy Lea: Innovation. Oh, I love David Marks: innovation. Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. David Marks: Yep. Innovation. You gotta innovate, you know, otherwise you won't get look what happened to Kodak. Look what happened. Blockbuster had the ability to buy Netflix, and they said no. David Marks: Look what happened to them in the early two thousands. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. David Marks: They had the opportunity to buy Netflix. Netflix went to them to, to offer it, and they said, no. Look where they're at now. They're gone. Look at Kodak. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. David Marks: Yeah. AK Kodak's Jimmy Lea: still around. But they're not the powerhouse that David Marks: used to be. David Marks: They're, yeah, they're not what we remember them being. Jimmy Lea: No, you're exactly right. And you know that final blockbuster location, that final one that was up in Oregon or Washington? They're finally gone. They're done. They're, now, it's an experience. It's like an Airbnb or something like that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That you can rent to go in there. It still has the same smells and all that jazz. Yeah. If you're not innovating then you are, you're dying. David Marks: Yeah. That's having that growth, that's people that have, that don't have that growth to rented mindset, you know? Yeah. I never really, how do we innovate? David Marks: I like experimenting with new things I've told, so we're working with, we use Tech Metric with Shop Genie. I said, man, I'll be the Guinea pig all day long. I told Kakuy that I'll be the Guinea pig. You want the Guinea pig? Dude, I raised my hand. Come again, put whatever you put in front of me and give you feedback. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. That's just how I am. I love it. That's great. So, to your, um, experiences, to your innovation, what are you doing today that is innovative at your shop? What are you doing to move the needle? David Marks: I've hired a virtual assistant. Okay. And to do what? Con the three Cs of marketing content. Content Jimmy Lea: and David Marks: putting content on social media. David Marks: You know, and it's, we just clicked, you know, I've had a, I've had somebody that's been doing, you know, stuff for me. 'cause Jimmy, you know this, instead of having a billboard on the highway, this is the billboard. Yeah, the cell phone. Your smartphone is the billboard? Yeah, it's the billboard. So my va, she's helping me with, you know, some of my personal branding and then, you know, it's getting one full-time to do everything because there's a lot of things she's gonna do. David Marks: She can send appointment reminders if I want to. She can send those follow up text messages on deferred work. She can send emails. She's gonna help me manage my email. She's gonna do all kinds of stuff. Jimmy Lea: That is awesome. Um, to make sure you're not duplicating something you already have. You may discover that Shop Genie and Tech Metric have the ability of a 30, 60, 90 day reminder that goes automatically. David Marks: No, they have it. But this way when my thought process is we can make it more, how do we make it more personalized? I love that. How do we make it more personalized? Yeah. You know, can I train her to do follow up phone calls? You know, was with something Jimmy Lea: Ooh, David Marks: interesting. Right. You know, what is her capability? David Marks: What can we do? We're gonna figure it out. But I'm the type of, I'm, I don't know any other shop owners that have a virtual, I'm gonna have one 40 hours a week. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. That's amazing. So with your virtual assistant right now, they are. You are, you're sending to you're sending to this person all of your video content, all of your videos your information. Jimmy Lea: Yep. And they're just taking it and then crunching it and giving out social media, David Marks: Adding it. So we used last pass. Okay. Because what she could do is then she can use that. To post on my personal Facebook account, my personal Instagram account without giving up the password. 'cause a lot of the content you see, it's not me posting it. David Marks: She edits it. You know, we meet once a week and talk about it, but then I have somebody that can manage my social media. I love it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You're meeting with her once a week and saying, Hey, go. David Marks: Yeah, we're collaborating. You've Jimmy Lea: got creative license. David Marks: Go Jimmy Lea: Make it pretty, make it work. Don't embarrass me. David Marks: Yeah. Because what you gotta, you know, employees don't wanna be micromanaged. Right. You know, they want autonomy and they want freedom. You know, they want a collaborative approach. So I've always, you know, it, it's having that collaborative mindset and that collaborative, like, and it's setting expectations and boundaries from the get go. David Marks: You know? And Jimmy, I just go with my intuition. Me and her just really clicked. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Alright, so I haven't heard the whole thing. I tried to watch it and list, 'cause usually when I'm watching the videos I'm just reading the text. Yeah. So thanks for putting the text on there. Jimmy Lea: I don't wanna be rude and have my reels playing for everybody else to read it. Yeah. What is your favorite analogy you use with customers? I want to hear what this is. David Marks: Oh, customers. So there's a couple different analogies I use is I, to me the service advisor's position is my job. So the customer's pissed off at the car, not me. David Marks: That's the role of the service advisor. Because if they're pissed off at the car, they'll come back. If they're pissed off at the shop, they're not coming back. And I tell people, I've literally told people this, like, my job is so you're pissed off at your car. And I've even used some um, those seven words that George Carlin said on tv. David Marks: I've even thrown that in there because then that means when I see that Jimmy, the customer knows, I mean business. Like, whoa, he's not screwing around. Right. He's taking this very seriously. Yes. The customer, in my opinion, has changed a lot where we have to, I have more lengthy conversations with people about their cards are, you know, I need to, we need, I need to educate them. David Marks: We can't diagnose all the AC leaks at once. It's one leak at a time till they're all fixed while it's in our possession. Once it's in our shop, we can control it. Once you pick it up and leave. On a 10-year-old car with one 20, it's out of our hands. I can't help that. You know? And then I've had to educate customers. David Marks: The roads that we test drive your car on are not the same roads you drive on. Jimmy Lea: It's true. David Marks: You know, and they're not. And unless you wanna pay me a bottle and Jimmy Lea: the way I drive is different than the way you drive, you may have a lead foot, but I drive like, grandpa on Sunday, David Marks: oh, we gotta do a lot of test drives with people when they drop the car off. David Marks: The biggest one is brake que brake squeak. I want a test drive when they bring it in because that way when it doesn't do it, when we're with them, you know, then it's easier to get permission to put it on the lift, perform the inspection, charge 'em, hold off, and then when we find the broken CV boot and the brakes are fine, they say yes when we do the DVI. David Marks: Right. Jimmy Lea: Yes. David Marks: No, I love Jimmy Lea: that. So are using tech metric for your DVI? Yeah. David Marks: We use, yeah. The whole key to the inspection thing. The 300 roll is get permission. Yeah. Is get permission. When you get permission and you know, we do, you know, we, I'll say, Hey, would you want us to give it a once over, 'cause that's a common term that customer uses when they say yes. David Marks: Now I got that door open. And then I explain to 'em, here's our process for the once over. Okay. You know, let's say they say no. We don't want that. In the event our techs sees something that's a safety concern. Would you like us to let you know? Nobody's told me no. Jimmy Lea: Right. But who's gonna, anybody who's gonna say no is gonna be in trouble. Jimmy Lea: That's Yeah. Yeah. But at the same David Marks: time though, you know, I don't want the techs looking the whole car over. If they don't, that's what the customer's not there for, and I don't like. And I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to customers would that, a lot of shops would say that disqualifies 'em right away. David Marks: That's fine. That's not me. I'm still going to do what they presented the car for. I'm in business because maybe they've been screwed over by 10 other places. Yeah. You know, sometimes what I've learned, and this is what I do, is. This is gonna go against what a lot of auto repair coaching says, but that first visit do exactly what they want you to do, and then you earn their trust the next time we can do it our way and they trust us. David Marks: You'd be surprised how that works. I love it because other places they've been burned, so we gotta earn their trust. Yeah. To really, I think to do that 300% rule, you gotta earn their trust. And that might not be doing it on the first one. That might not even be doing on the second one, but the third one, once you've earned it, then you can do that. David Marks: Because I, I get that. I get the whole process. Then you can do that and apply and it works. Yeah. 'cause I love that people are tired of shops shoving stuff down their throat. All this when you talk to 'em about it and you, the key is to get permission. Jimmy Lea: And you've done it, you've done it all along the way. Jimmy Lea: You've gotten the permission, you educated them. You did your DVI. Yeah. Hey, here's the second time, here's the third time we've been watching this Mr. Customer. Mrs. Customer. Right. And it does need to be fixed. Now, here we are, the third time it's been, what, maybe six months or eight months down the road. Jimmy Lea: Right. This is really something you can't put off anymore. It's not gonna fix itself. David Marks: Yeah. And I think that's a much Jimmy Lea: different conversation. David Marks: That's a much different conversation, right? 'cause when you earn, if sometimes that's just what I've learned is when you kind of go along, kind of let them dictate it the first time. David Marks: Yeah. That's how you earn their trust. 'cause then not then. Then they don't think you're just like everybody else, you know? Jimmy Lea: And and what you're also providing them is not a laundry list of blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes. $2,500. You've got picture of this circled that. Arrows to this. Jimmy Lea: Arrows to that, right? Yeah. This is what a new one looks like. This is what yours looks like. Here's what we need to do, and here's why this is important. It, an educated customer makes better decisions. David Marks: Absolutely. A thousand percent. So, yeah, I've got something else come cooking up my sleeve too that I think is I would've never thought of, Jimmy Lea: okay, what do you got? Jimmy Lea: What are you doing? David Marks: So I also sell cars. I got my dealer license and I got my rental car license. I got some other irons in the fire. Um, and we're not gonna go down that rabbit hole, but I went to. Um, a conference on car sales. 'cause we, all of us independent repair shops hate the aftermarket warranties. David Marks: Okay. I know exactly how they make money that is very lucrative. They make money through what's called reinsurance companies. Okay. Okay. What it is it's, you set up a separate company, there's a company to plug a for a company called Buckeye. They set this up because I'm gonna do this here. I got some things I gotta make before I get there. David Marks: Okay. But I take $15 per repair order. Okay? Okay. Now, this is an expense on my p and l. Love it. Keep, gotta understand taxes. So this goes into, and I use Che GBT and I talked to a lot of people about this and I have the Che GBT account. I'm a huge advocate for it. Okay. Love it. And I do use it. David Marks: So I take this, I put this into this reinsurance company. Okay? Now, as that builds up, right when I have a comeback, 'cause we're a Napa Autocare center. Okay? Okay. So let's say here's a perfectly good example. Let's say I put Altor on somebody's car, right? We charge 'em a thousand bucks. Simple numbers, right? David Marks: Yeah. Easy numbers. That's 700, Jimmy Lea: what the numbers are, but that's easy. Yeah. Simple numbers. David Marks: So, seven hundred's, labor, three hundred's parts. Jimmy Lea: Sure. David Marks: Okay. Right. So Napa's obviously gonna gimme the warranty, the parts, but we're not make our parts. Profit on that job is gone. Gone. Yep. Not making any money. David Marks: Right. And then we still pay the technician. Right. And Napa's not gonna gimme the 700 bucks. So what I do is I use money from that reinsurance company that's in there that's tax free to pay myself for that repair. Love it. Perfect. Right. Now once these, once this gets built up high enough. Yes. 'cause you gotta keep, let's say I have. David Marks: $10,000 in there after a year, we gotta keep 30% in reserves. Okay. That's per bylaw. But that other 7,000, I can take that, reinvest it into the stock market. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Yeah. There are devices, there are programs, there are, um, accounts at the bank and you'll need to talk to a banker. Jimmy Lea: I'll tell you who's really good at that is Wayne Marshall, our, the CEO of the institute, he is setting us up. So we've got a sweeper account. And the bank is paying us to hold our money with them. David Marks: Yeah, so essentially too, here's the other thing. I do this and I'm not Jimmy Lea: talking about a savings account. Pay you. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. This is a much bigger piece of the pie. David Marks: Listen to this. I can use this reinsurance company. Let's say I need a skiing tool and I've got two grants in this account. The reinsurance company pays the pays for the scan tool, quality auto repair, pays it back with interest. Oh, I love Jimmy Lea: it. Sure. Become David Marks: bank. David Marks: So how can I. Right. For essentially for assets. I love Jimmy Lea: it. David Marks: So, and then it, this is, now I don't, I know enough about taxes to be dangerous. We have to talk to a cp 'cause everybody's situation's different. But this is the way to avoid a lot of taxes and generate, this is how these car dealers make money. David Marks: This is how these reinsurance companies make, this is how these warranty companies make money. Guys that do their own service contracts in-house, this is how they're doing it and this is how they're making money on it. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Just their David Marks: reinsurance programs. Jimmy Lea: So, continuing on down, down the path of the innovation you've talked about the virtual assistant. Jimmy Lea: This is someone helping you out with your social media. Yeah. Content. You talk about innovation with the banking and the reinsuring. What else are you doing that is innovative? You feel like this is different and nobody else in the auto aftermarket is doing it? So I, so one thing I do is I got my dealer David Marks: license. David Marks: Okay. And I do that because I avoid a lot of state taxes in the state of Missouri. And I think the two just go hand in hand. What's made that very profitable is having a good, reputable auto repair business 'cause the money without us buying and selling with the customers. Okay. It really is. So, Jimmy Lea: so are you next door to each other or, yeah. Jimmy Lea: This is all in David Marks: one space. This is all in one space. One space. Okay. And then, so what, so when individuals say, I'm gonna trade it in. I tell 'em I can take it to the dealer auction 'cause I got Manheim nine miles from me and I can put this in your pocket. In four years. I've had one person tell me no. Wow. And I've hit some massive home runs. David Marks: That right there. What I make off, that literally pays for me to have the license. Oh, that's awesome. The state fees it that much. It's the in, it's the insurance that gets, can get kind of pricey with it. Jimmy Lea: How many cars do you have on your used lot? David Marks: I usually do about 40 a year. Jimmy Lea: You have 40 cars there or you sell cars? Jimmy Lea: I used David Marks: no. I usually sell about 40 a year. I usually keep two to five on, on there. Two to five is what I have. Jimmy Lea: Two to five. Okay. My uncle had a dealership in Vegas, and I think he had anywhere from 15 to 20. 20 was when they had a lot, and he would turn like 10 to 15 a month. I mean, it wasn't a lot. Jimmy Lea: But it was, when I get the right advisor, that's David Marks: going to a whole nother level. That's challenge. Say again? When I gets to an advisor, that's going to a whole nother level. Jimmy Lea: Agreed. Are you gonna do the buy here, pay here? David Marks: I don't know. See, I have, so in the state of Missouri, I have what's called a lease rental license. David Marks: I can either do daily rentals or leasing. You can actually lease use cars. Okay. I think buy here, pay here makes sense for the consumer when they can pay that. Because I've got people on buy here, pay here when they can pay for the buy here Payer. Buy here, pay your payment and auto repair on top of it. David Marks: We've all seen too many people that got the buy here, pay here, note of the old thousands on the car. It's a POS and these thousands of dollars in repair. It's like, how do I avoid that? Yeah. You know, and I don't want that buy here. Pay your stigma either. I've done some when they've made sense. Um, I actually. David Marks: I actually like the daily rental cars, Jimmy. Now I know. So Enterprise rental car here is based in St. Louis. The Taylor family, they're family owned based here in St. Louis. They do 25 billion a year on revenue. B. B billion. B billion. Yeah. I had one Ford Escape on the road for 30 days. I got 1600 bucks in 30 days on that as a daily rental. David Marks: I'm like, you can't do that on a car note. Now I know why. Enterprise is a billion dollar business. Yeah. Yeah. So because of the my, because of the repair business I have, I think I, this is gonna go against everything we're taught. I think I can play race to the Bottom, Monte Touro with this and make money. Jimmy Lea: Interesting. I get calls for parts of David Marks: labor. Jimmy Lea: You don't need to race to the bottom, but you can be a shoe man. You could be a solution. I can undercut silver David Marks: car out there too. I can undercut. I can undercut because I, no, you could. Jimmy Lea: You don't need to. David Marks: I mean, when I say race at the bottom, it's because, you know, I pay everything at a discount, you know, you know, I, what's my real cost for a skilled tech? David Marks: What's my real cost for parts? And I buy cars at a discount because of the license. So, and if guys would be surprised, Jimmy, what I've bought and sold stuff for with customers, what I've bought stuff for and what I've, I literally had a guy, he paid four grand over Kelley Blue Book retail on a car yesterday, about last month. David Marks: Yeah. And he was happy. I said I said, I'll sell this to you. It was one of my daily rentals. I said, I'll sell it to you, but dude I need to get this. He said, okay, Dave. And paid it Jimmy Lea: because he was in love with the car. David Marks: Because it's trust. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. Trust too. It's trust. He knows that it's gonna be taken care of. Jimmy Lea: So when you sell a car, do you have a in-house warranty that if you keep coming back to me, we'll keep doing yada. David Marks: No, I was attempting that with the leasing program. I was trying to build a model that, that the customer could afford. Yeah. And was profitable and I haven't cracked it yet. David Marks: Um, you know, I'm experimenting Jimmy, I'm experimenting with a lot of things and. If you're gonna do what I'm doing, you know, you can't be afraid to lose money, dude, because I've lost it. I'll be the first one to tell you. I, but yeah, it's, that's pay to play. And that's the price. That's the cost of, I don't care what you're doing, I don't care what you're doing. David Marks: If you're not willing to lose money, dude don't do it. 'cause that's, no, that's right. That's what happens when you know, and I think that goes back to believing in yourself. Having faith. I can do it. You know, and trust in the process. You know how I do things, Jimmy is with the car sales thing is I play in the kitty pool with not knowing what the hell I'm doing, and then I find people that got way bigger operations than I am. David Marks: Here's what I'm doing. What do you think? Because I have no clue what I'm doing. And they're told me. I've got people that, that have, you know, leasing programs and I've got a guy, he's got 4 4600 people making car payments to him. Oh my word. He owns four D. He's got four. What was cool is we were at a conference, he's wanting to get into retail auto repair, and he's picking my brain on this. Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. Yeah. So you guys are going back and forth? David Marks: Yeah, because he's got shops, he's got techs, but he's never done retail work. It's all for stuff that either in-house getting or stuff that, because they do work for people that are making payments, but he was gonna go out to the general public, so. David Marks: It's really cool. It's a different, Jimmy Lea: it's a different horse man. David Marks: A whole different animal. And then, yeah, but it was really cool to experience that. But that's how, I think, that's how you do it, is you gotta play in the kiddie pool, not knowing what the hell you're doing. And then I have something I can take to somebody, and I don't care what this is. David Marks: It doesn't matter what you're doing, it's falling blank. That's got a way bigger operation, then it's easier for me to understand what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong instead of prior. And I don't ask permission. I didn't ask anybody, Hey, should I buy and sell cars? Hey, should I do this? I can just go out and do it. David Marks: Let me see if I like it, and then let me find somebody that's doing it at a high level and ask for help. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, there you David Marks: go. There you Jimmy Lea: go. That's your school of hard knocks right there. David Marks: Yeah, it is. It's the school. I think it's the best education because when dude, I tell my MB is when I lose four grand, three grand, two grands. David Marks: You don't forget it. Hey, Jimmy Lea: it's the cost of your education, bro. Yeah, exactly. That's all it is. David Marks: Exactly. If you wanna grow and scale, Jimmy Lea: scale, that could be a line item on your p and l as well. Executive education. David Marks: Yeah, Jimmy Lea: that'd be four grand. David Marks: That'd be the, that'd have the most dollar amount on it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it sure would. Jimmy Lea: It's on David Marks: there. It's on, it's, if you look at the net income, that's where it comes out. Of course. Jimmy Lea: So with what you're doing you, I understand the school of hard knocks and what that like, like that have you ever had any coaching or training or teaching with any. David Marks: Yeah, I have I've had coaching uhhuh I had that, I got a business coach that I work with, you know, currently, you know, is he industry specific? David Marks: No. I think to me Jimmy, it's more mindset. It's more mindset and it's more beliefs. That's the coach that I work with really helps me with. 'cause the tactical stuff that's easy. The tactical stuff is easy. Okay. We all know GP and you know, independent repair shop. You know the 60, 40, 20. Okay, we can all get there, but does the mind believe that's possible? David Marks: What does the mind believe? Yes. If the mind believe it, it's possible. The tactical stuff is easy. I can get on AOG and find that out. I, the tactical stuff is easy. It's everywhere, you know, but I literally have a guy, he works on my mindset. We work, he's a mindset coach. That's what I have. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. That's good. Yeah. And he helps ' David Marks: cause and he is, and we're working together on personal and professional. It's not just, it's not always about business. How's your home life Dave? How you taking, you know, I did that program 75 hard last year. Look, go look it up. 75 hard. And now I understand how fitness and business go together. David Marks: I get that. 'cause I've always heard that. You know, because, you know Jimmy, the skill doesn't lie when I see my. Weight go down, or when I see I could push more weight at the gym or I could ride my bike. It's I, last week I did 10 miles and it took me an hour. This week I could do 10 miles. It took me 50 minutes. David Marks: That you can't deny that. That's tangible proof. Okay. I'm getting stronger, I'm getting healthier. You know, what else can I do with my life? You know, that's what fitness and business is all about. I tell people the fitness, because I go to the gym every, I'm up at four o'clock, at the gym at four 30, you know, and I work out 5, 6, 7 days a week. David Marks: And I do that because that puts me in the right mindset. Love it. You know, and it's, I, you know, the byproduct is as I'm physically fit, but the intention is that's helping me build confidence. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Confidence and mental clarity then, David Marks: and then I can, then I, then the tactical stuff that is, I think, easy to get, then it all makes sense. David Marks: Then it's applicable. 'cause if this mind ain't right, you could be the best tactical coach in the world. It's gonna be useless information because I don't believe I can do it. I don't believe that's possible. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Mindset goes, yeah. It's a big thing. I totally agree with you, brother. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. So what does the future look like for you, David? Are you going to continue with the single location? Are you gonna branch out? Are you gonna add to the Kingdom? Um, I would David Marks: wanna, I mean, I like the single thing, you know, I don't know, Jimmy, you know, I don't know. You know, I think, you know, I want to grow the, I mean, the next step for me is to, you know, where the business owns the property. David Marks: It operates on, you know, let me get that. I, here's my answer to that is. It's not right, wrong, good or bad, it just is. And being okay with what I have, you know, and Jimmy Lea: And that goes into define success. What is success for you? Success is what you have to define and you're a hundred percent good and okay with. David Marks: Yeah, I think success is being okay with what I have now. Right. And it's fine that you, it's good to have goals, vision and that's great. It's, I think success is not comparing other people's outsides to my insides Jimmy Lea: bingo. David Marks: You know, and understanding that. Everybody has a place in this world. David Marks: You know, if somebody wants to be a one man band, awesome. There's nothing wrong with that. If somebody wants to own 14 locations, cool. There's nothing wrong with that. Success to me is being okay with where I'm at right now in the present moment. Yeah and having a vision for the future. Setting goals. David Marks: Right. That's I, yeah. I have two vision boards. I have two in my office, my home office. I have two, four by six dry eraser boards. I got a personal vision and a professional vision. You know, I love it. Meditate in front of those 10 minutes. In one, 10 minutes in front of the other one. Okay. Right now, yeah, I have three locations on there. David Marks: Is what? I have three locations is what I have on there. I got three. Okay. You know, will I get there? I don't know. You know, I don't know. We don't know what the future's gonna hold. But it's out there. Yeah. My vision's to have three locations, Jimmy Lea: you know, and be okay. It's out there and your subconscious is now aware of it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And so your subconscious is gonna be on the hunt constantly for second location and third location. Yeah. So, yeah, you're gonna get there. Before you do that, David, before you do that, make sure that your first location is able to operate without you. And how do you figure that out? You go on a two week vacation and you do not check in. Jimmy Lea: You let the, everybody at the shop take care of the shop. You are out. David Marks: Oh, I do that now. I've already, I've left for two. I've been gone for two weeks this week already. Nice. You know, I call 'em workcation. Yeah. They're part work part pleasure. Yeah. And, but no, I've done that before and I agree. David Marks: When I leave, you know, when I leave right now. Yeah. Does a place do what it does when I'm there? No, but it does, it is it, does it self-sustainable sufficient? Yes. And I'm just not a micromanager. Last time I went to San Diego, first week of September, I think I talked to Nick once. Oh, that's great. Once, and I don't hop on Tech metric and get, see what the numbers are. David Marks: I don't look at numbers until we get back. I don't So you unplug, Jimmy Lea: you David Marks: completely unplugged. Yep. I do not look at nothing because I know what's gonna happen. I, we, you know that scarcity mindset or they're not doing this? They're not doing this. Nope. Just let it be. Let it go. And I think I talked to Nick once when I was gone that week, and that's it. David Marks: And that's just, I've always done that. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Congrats, bro. That's very cool. Was there anything that we haven't addressed or haven't talked about that you'd like to bring up as we land this plane? David Marks: Land this plane? You know, Jimmy, I follow you guys, you know the institute I follow, you know, Cecil and I can't remember his son's name, and you guys. David Marks: What now, Kent? Yeah, Kent. You know, I love what you guys are doing. You know, I really do. I see that, you know, what's, I tell you what's odd? So I'm on LinkedIn a ton. Jimmy Lea: Okay. David Marks: And what's can scare, what really kind of concerns me about the auto repair business is, you know, Lucas Underwood, you know, I think he's an influencer. David Marks: I see him on there now, the sales side of the, and if you take automotive and you've got sales and repair. Yeah, there's two sections. All the influencers, they're on LinkedIn on the sales side, and it's a great way to follow to see what GM Ford, Mary Bear is on there. Jim Foley's on there, bill Ford, Lanis, they're all talking about what's coming down the pipeline and a lot of sales influencers are on there. David Marks: I don't see any, I'm gonna say independent rep auto repair influencers on LinkedIn, and that's concerning to me. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, David Marks: that's concerning to me. Jimmy Lea: Have you? Not on LinkedIn. I haven't seen 'em, but royalty Royal Auto Service, David Marks: royalty Auto Service. Yeah. They're not on LinkedIn. They're crickets. Jimmy Lea: No they're they're on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. They're David Marks: on Facebook. Yeah. I, you know, I follow their stuff. I like what they're doing. Actually. I wanna do a lot of a lot of their stuff. But it just kinda odd, that kinda strikes me odd that. You know, the AKA influencers, whatever you want to, however you wanna label that they're not on, on LinkedIn. David Marks: So here's something cool I've done. BG corporate BG follows me on Facebook and LinkedIn. Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay. Okay. ' David Marks: cause of the content that I put out talking about how I'd enjoy their products. Nice. That's awesome. So, you know, I think, you know LinkedIn, I, LinkedIn is its own different animal. There's social media, is LinkedIn. Jimmy Lea: It is a different animal and there's different rules. It's not the same algorithm as what Facebook is or even Instagram. Yeah. It's probably the most antisocial social platform. David Marks: Oh I'm on it. I've I'm on there almost as much as I'm on Facebook. Oh, wow. It's a great way to stay educated. David Marks: It's a great way to stay. 'cause I wanna know what's coming down the pipeline. Yeah. The next five, six years, what are we gonna be working on five, six years down the road, you know? Yeah. Gas card v eights are coming back. Jimmy Lea: Yep. David Marks: You know, a lot of, there's been a lot of deregulation with the current administration, so. David Marks: I mean, I mean there's, you could look at that, see what happens. We'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Jimmy Lea: And Mark David, if I had a magic wand that I could hand to you and you can't wish for more wishes, but you can wish to change something in the industry, what would you change in the industry? Jimmy Lea: It could be customers, it could be process, procedures, technicians, shop awareness, marketplace training, education. Where does your heart lie? David Marks: I mean, I mean, it would be more comradery. More comradery amongst us. Amongst us. 'cause I'm not gonna name the Facebook group, but there's a couple that I'm in and I see a lot of derogatory comments flying back and forth in some of these Facebook groups. David Marks: And I'm in some groups for auto sales and I don't see that happening. If it happens, I don't see it. Right. Be more comradery and I think a lot of. And I've put comments into Facebook groups and then it's like, really guys, you guys gotta make these comments. I think too many people in some of these auto repair Facebook groups look at what other people are doing is right, wrong, good or bad? David Marks: Yeah. Instead of just, instead of, why do you care what I do? It doesn't affect you. That's what I'd like to see change is more camaraderie amongst us. I see too many bickering. On these online groups that we're all in instead of camaraderie. Is there a lot of camaraderie on there? Yes. Yes there is. And I see a lot of bickering 'cause I don't partake in it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no. And you know, do you know how, here's an old fisherman's analogy for you. Do you know how to keep a crab from climbing out of the basket? David Marks: Put other crabs in there. Jimmy Lea: And they just keep pulling each other down. David Marks: Yep. Jimmy Lea: That's not the business we wanna be in. Wanna elevate? David Marks: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: We wanna elevate the industry. Jimmy Lea: We wanna be about a better life, a better business, a better industry. That's the way it's gonna roll down is the more you can work on your business and have that be better, it's gonna result in a better life for you. Your employees, your Yeah. If and their families. David Marks: If somebody wants to do what I'm doing, you know, do auto repair the sales, who cares? David Marks: Why do you care? Do it or what can I learn from that instead of condoning it? That's what I see. Yeah. You know, or somebody just wants to be one man. Man. Cool. Awesome. Who cares? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. What gives you the right to tell them how to rule their kingdom. Yeah. I see. Let them rule their own David Marks: kingdom. I see too much of that going on, and I don't have time to sit on social media all day either. David Marks: I don't. Oh, yeah. I don't, I can't, I don't do it. I can't do it. But that would be one thing is more comradery I'd like. I'd love to see that. I don't think there's enough of that going around. Jimmy Lea: David we definitely have some other things to talk about. Brother, thank you so much. Oh David Marks: man. David Marks: Mean you could go on and on all day. Dude, Jimmy Lea: we could go on all day. David Marks: Thank you for having me, Jimmy. I really appreciate this dude. It means a ton to me, dude. It really does, man. I, as best as possible when I see the in, even though I know I'm not part of it, but when I see the post, I like it. Or comment on it Or shared or your stuff because just because I'm not directly involved doesn't mean I still don't support it Or can't support it. David Marks: 'cause that just helps the algorithm when we like and comment stuff. So. Yeah. Oh, amen. When I saw you were signing up, I just signed up for your class. I've signed up for some of your classes. I don't even know what the topic is. I just saw instructor Jim Lee. Yes. I'm dead. I just needed to know you are teaching it. David Marks: I'm signing up. I don't care what it is because I'm gonna learn something and it's gonna be badass. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. David Marks: Of course. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. As thank you. Your words are so kind and it's an honor for me as well to be able to interview you, David and to hear about your history and your David Marks: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Your passion and your foresight and your projection, your laws of attraction, what your goals are and your future. David Marks: Yeah, Jimmy Lea: those three locations. David Marks: Yeah, Jimmy Lea: that's a thing, bro. And we can make that happen. David Marks: I got a vision board in it. I wrote, I got it written down, you know, and all right. I'm a big believer in the, you know, it's just that you gotta, we gotta work on our mind and mind. David Marks: My, my purpose every day is to wake up enthusiastic and inspired to be me. It has nothing to do with my business. Oh, amen. But up like that, good things happen to everybody I come in contact with. Jimmy Lea: And if you can surround yourself with those people that are like-minded, that are growth minded, that are expansion and innovation minded, it's gonna elevate you and your business as well. Jimmy Lea: And especially if those people are able to hold you accountable to a higher level. Hey David, you said you were gonna do this, you're. I gotta get that done. They hold you accountable. That and that trust that you build there is just so paramount. It's awesome. David Marks: Yeah. That's why I did that program. David Marks: 75 Heart I talked about look it up. That taught me self accountability. Jimmy Lea: Oh good. David Marks: It taught me what that taught me. This is what it is. So I did this for 75 days. Yeah. Do 2 45 minute workouts. One must be outdoors. Okay. Um, follow a diet, no cheese meals. Okay, no alcohol. Drink a gallon of water and read 10 pages of like a self-help book or personal development book. David Marks: You do that for 75 days, dude, you're a different person. Jimmy Lea: Amen, brother. That David Marks: really taught me is that I have the ability to make a promise to myself and follow through. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. No, I, 'cause there's so many people that do make a promise to themselves, but then they give them all the leadway and all the Yep. Jimmy Lea: And I'm not, David Marks: dude, I'm not perfect at this. I'm not perfect at this by any stretch of imagination. There's plenty of days where I make promise to myself and I don't follow through. Yeah. I know. I have the ability to when I put effort in initiative into it. Jimmy Lea: Bingo. Yep. I love that And I'm not perfect at it either. David Marks: None of us are Jimmy Lea: that Take the fun out David Marks: of it. Jimmy Lea: I'm working at it. I'm working at it. David Marks: Yeah. We're all works in progress. Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. Jimmy Lea: David, thank you so much brother. Appreciate you being here. David Marks: Absolutely. Thanks Jimmy.

159 - Breaking the 7-Figure Ceiling: People, Process, and a Single Mega-Shop with Ryan Snow October 16, 2025 - 01:05:20   Show Summary: From pumping gas at a local Texaco to managing a multimillion-dollar operation, Ryan Snow of St. George Transmission and Automotive Repair shares his remarkable path through the industry. In this conversation with Jimmy Lea, Ryan talks about building his shop during the recession, expanding into a two-building “garage mahal,” and developing technicians from the ground up. He dives into the evolution of marketing in an AI-driven world, the real impact of digital inspections, and what it takes to recruit and retain top talent. The discussion wraps with lessons on leadership, growth, and the importance of evolving alongside technology and people.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Ryan Snow, Owner of St George Transmission & Automotive   Show Highlights: [00:02:28] - Ryan’s early beginnings at a full-service gas station and how it shaped his entry into the automotive industry. [00:05:12] - Transitioning from parts sales to shop management and stepping into ownership. [00:07:27] - Growing through the 2008 recession by shifting from transmission-only work to full general repair. [00:10:26] - Investing in technology and training to stay ahead with diagnostic tools and lab scopes. [00:17:27] - Building and training new technicians while managing liability and opportunity for growth. [00:20:07] - Partnering with Dixie Technical College to strengthen the next generation of technicians. [00:34:30] - Discussing how AI and Google’s evolving search algorithms are changing shop marketing. [00:46:11] - Turning off Google Ads and seeing higher engagement through smarter organic strategies. [00:49:17] - Leveraging phone and CRM technology for real-time tracking, customer insight, and accountability. [00:55:21] - Ryan’s take on the industry’s biggest challenge: evolving leadership to meet the needs of today’s workforce.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello my friend. It is Jimmy Lew here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is my very good friend, Mr. Ryan Snow of St. George Transmission and Automotive Repair out of St. George, Utah. I have taken my vehicles there to Ryan. Jimmy Lea: And Ryan, it is great to see you today. How are you, brother? Ryan Snow: I'm doing well. Great to, glad to see you again. Thanks for having me. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, dude, it's so good to see you. Just a refreshening of everything. Your shop was just down the street from my old house and way back in the day I brought my Ford Explorer over there to you. Jimmy Lea: And most recently it was my son looking at a Honda, looking at a we looked at a Maxima and Oh man, it just never worked out. Yeah. Ryan Snow: Yeah. I think if I, if memory serves correctly, the first time that we meet or really got a chance to like sit down and talk, was at a at a Mars conference up there logged in. Ryan Snow: I sat Jimmy Lea: right next to you. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And you're like, dude, I'm from St. George. I'm from St. George. Why didn't we drive together? Yeah. Where's your shop? Oh, I drive by that every day. Yeah. Oh, that's so true, man. Yeah. That was funny. I remember that. That was my first Mars conference, or might've been the second Mars conference in 2021. Jimmy Lea: Something like that. Ryan Snow: That sounds about right. Jimmy Lea: 2019 Maybe. It might've been the second conference in 2021. Yeah. That marketing conference. We're still doing it. Still going strong. Having a fun time. Get back up to the Ryan Snow: next one. Yeah. And then we would usually only run into each other at different parts of the country at different events. Ryan Snow: We never saw each other in St. George. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh man. And my son is still driving that. The last vehicle you looked at with us, the Toyota Venza. Ryan Snow: Oh, good. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. He's still kicking. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's, and it's kicking really well all wheel drive, which is important in northern Utah. Now we've got snow coming on the road. Ryan Snow: Hopefully we'll get lots. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully we get lots of snow. That would be awesome. Well, Ryan I'm excited to talk to you today about the automotive industry and some of the challenges that we face as an industry. But before we jump into that, I'd love to know how did you get into the automotive aftermarket? Ryan Snow: My entry point was basically like a tire buster level. I did tires and brakes for a few summers in high school. You know, I did auto tech in high school, did the skills, USA competition, and then I started working for a little a little service station. You know, I just had a couple of bays. Ryan Snow: We still would go up and pump gas and check oil, you know, all the way up into the two thousands. That kind of lasted for a while. What? That was part of the shtick? Jimmy Lea: Well, there was a full service gas station in St. George, Utah. Ryan Snow: Yeah. East end of the Boulevard was a Texaco, and then it was a shell, Jimmy Lea: the shell, the one with the propane tank out front. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I know exactly what you're talking about. Ryan Snow: Yeah. It had the only natural gas fill up, you know, port that the public could access. So we had all kinds of weird natural gas cars coming through. Yep. So I was there for a few years and started to actually ranch more, get a little bit deeper into cars. Ryan Snow: But I kind of was working as a hybrid service advisor. I just didn't know it yet. So I left that to go sell parts. And so I spent a couple years selling parts and became a wholesale parts manager for the area. And one day I was delivering parts to this shop and just kind of venting about the parts sales part of the industry and, you know, crying and moaning about work. Ryan Snow: And the owner of the shop at the time was like, well, hey, if you want something different, I got a spot for you. And so I stopped selling parts and I figured if I was gonna sell parts, I would also sell labor as well. So. I came into the shop environment and I was selling nearly the same volume of parts. Ryan Snow: Oh my gosh. But with, you know, all the technician labor on top of that. And I came to this shop because after selling parts, you start to get to know like what shops are ran well, what technicians are actually good technicians. And this shop was one of the only shops that I would've like ever thought about taking my personal vehicle to. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Wow. So it's like, Ryan Snow: I like, oh, okay. Okay. The transmission guys are sharp. I wanna, if I'm gonna work in a shop, I wanna work with the smart guys, so. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. So at what point did you step into ownership with the shop? Ryan Snow: I started with the shop in 2008 and I think I took over the manager spot. Ryan Snow: Probably sometime around 2013 or 14. And after that went away from the shop a little bit. I spent a few years doing photography and video work full-time and then got asked to come back and kind of take a shot back over. So at that point I came back in as a partner. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Ryan Snow: And been rolling since then. Ryan Snow: So I guess I've been in an ownership capacity since roughly 2017. 2018. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats bro. That's so awesome. And I know you've got the two, two buildings now. 'cause when I first started coming over, it was just the one with the what is it, 12 bays inside, and you've got nine master certified techs that are working transmissions. Jimmy Lea: Is that still the scenario? Ryan Snow: Yeah. Yeah. More or less. So the the lore was the previous owner originally built the shop that I'm sitting in right now, which is the new shop. Which is the old shop. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So he Ryan Snow: or he originally had built this and and 2008 right when I came on he built the new building. Ryan Snow: It's about double the square footage. Yeah. To take all the transmission stuff over there. And 2008 was a hell of a time to enter the industry and have a brand new building and a whole new debt load to service. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Oh 8, 0 9 and oh 10. Oh my gosh. That was tough. Ryan Snow: And so my first few years, the shop had previously done almost no general auto repair to now we do everything. Ryan Snow: We got, you know, we got guys that we need to keep busy and so. We were actually able to grow through the whole recession. Like we went through a rough patch and then we progressed another level or two, you know, kind of by the time we got through the end of the recession. Ryan Snow: And a lot of that came from being able to finally service repeat customers. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, dude, that's awesome Ryan Snow: because transmission shops almost never have anybody as a repeat customer unless the job didn't go well or it's another vehicle, or it's their friend or their family. But this expansion came about last year when the tenant that had been in it for a long time was moving out. Ryan Snow: And so we took the opportunity to basically add some more base space and give us a secondary marketing arm and hopefully fill that, that demand of, you know, more minor repair or maintenance and service work. Aside from, you know, the deep, heavy line surgery that, that we are primarily doing in the big shop now. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Oh my gosh, that's awesome. So the in between, wasn't that the granite slab company that was there for a minute? Ryan Snow: Yeah. It was a granite warehouse and sho room for a long time. Before that, it was two or three different collision shops. It was a couple of different diesel shops. Ryan Snow: There was somebody that was making cabinets for like six months. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. That's amazing. So I get a, Ryan Snow: I get a lot of people's random junk mail steel. Jimmy Lea: Oh, really? Ryan Snow: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's crazy. That is crazy. Ryan Snow: There's companies, I get mail for the, with this address that I don't even remember being here and I was. Ryan Snow: The whole time. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, that's crazy. So maybe they were running multiple companies out of the one location. Yeah. Ryan Snow: Yeah. I think this was the LLC address for some multiple enterprises. Jimmy Lea: Right. So when you came in and you were so, and high school, you were at the gas, the Shell station did a little bit of wrenching, but it sounds like it was more oil and brakes. Jimmy Lea: Not so much. Yeah. So heavy, Ryan Snow: A lot of people that move into an ownership position I'm a little jealous of because most of 'em are former technicians that became owners. Yeah. I am not I would call myself barely a c tech. Yeah. But Jimmy Lea: you are GS qualified. Ryan Snow: Yeah, I'm, I am GS qualified and I can talk a lot about everything on a vehicle. Jimmy Lea: Oh, knowledge is Ryan Snow: dangerous. But I always went to, you know, I always went to every bit of training that came in. If technicians were going training, I was going training. I've always been really curious about how does it work, why does it work? And so over the years I spent a lot more time, you know, being more involved with like the diagnostic side, not necessarily taking over diagnostics, but if a technician gets stuck on something, then you gotta put heads together to get unstuck, find a new test, stay fresh on what kind of new tools are coming out. Ryan Snow: So, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah, sometimes that different perspective is all you need to be able to crack the code. Ryan Snow: Yeah, like I've always been kind of the early adopter tech nerd, so, you know, as soon as I learned what you could do with the lab scope, I was like, oh, weird. We're buying multiple lab scopes, everybody in the software. Ryan Snow: And you get a lab scope Jimmy Lea: and you Ryan Snow: get a lab scope. Yeah. Every, everybody's gonna go to a lab scope class and we're gonna all learn about waveform analyzation. 'cause that's super interesting to go over on a lunch break. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. I mean, that's when you start nerding out, for sure. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Jimmy Lea: So from there, you are where you are now, you've got the one building with the nine techs and it and the new old, the old new building. It's the new building, St. George Transmission auto Repair. Isn't there four, four lifts in there, or is there six? Ryan Snow: There's six and some flat bays. So in total we've got, you know, 18 bays right next door to each other. Ryan Snow: We can hold approximately a hundred vehicles plus employee vehicles on, on the property and in, in the bays. Whoa. So if we, you know, if our work in progress gets above a hundred vehicles, then we are busting people in basically. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Yeah. You would be that would be crazy. So what's the car look like for you guys right now? Jimmy Lea: I mean, that's, you're like a garage mahal, man. That's ginormous. Ryan Snow: So what's that car Jimmy Lea: count? Yeah. What are you looking at on a monthly or weekly? Daily, monthly, weekly. Ryan Snow: We're usually, depending on how many oil changes we're doing, which is not a lot we might be running only three to three 50 for a monthly car count. Ryan Snow: But we tend to run a much higher average ro. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: What's your average ro. These days Ryan Snow: it can be between 12 and $1,500 depending on the spread of transmission work versus general repair work. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, that's solid. That's Ryan Snow: solid. How heavy are we marketing things like Jimmy Lea: that? Yeah. Well, on every vehicle that's on the road today, there's anywhere from 2000 to $3,000 worth of safety repairs that need to be done. Jimmy Lea: They just haven't done 'em yet. They bring 'em to your shop, you do a digital vehicle inspection, you identify the things that need to repair, and it's up to them to make sure that they get it repaired, whether they do it with you or somebody else. So, yeah. And we, Ryan Snow: we primarily still have a reputation as a breakdown shop. Ryan Snow: You know, most things are coming in inoperable on a tow truck. Jimmy Lea: Wow. And so Ryan Snow: By the time we get to the bottom of that concern, and we also look at the rest of the vehicle so that we can give the customer an educated estimate on. You're gonna fix the major problem. You're also gonna need these other issues if you want your car to be reliable, safe, and operable, even in the near term. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Now you need to make a holistic decision, not just, yeah, we need to buy the transmission. Like, are you gonna, are you ready to do everything? 'cause if not, maybe I don't want to take your money for this one problem. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh no, it's so true. And maybe you're deciding, well, is it time to get that new used vehicle or that new vehicle, or, Hey, you know what, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Jimmy Lea: New Jimmy Lea: vehicles are so expensive. 60, 70, $80,000 for 20,000. We get you back on the road. You're safe and you're good to go for another a hundred, 200,000 miles. Ryan Snow: Yeah. O obviously I'm incentivized to wanna repair everything. Sure. And I would love to repair everything but. I also got into this business and stay in this business because I wanna serve my community, which means I need to help everybody make the best decision that we can make. Ryan Snow: A Jimmy Lea: hundred percent. And if you lay that out for them so that they can see it and understand it. You're doing digital vehicle inspections? I'm assuming? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So every single customer gets a digital vehicle inspection so they can see what needs repair. Ryan Snow: Yep. Yeah. Some car comes in for an oil change, gets the same inspection, car comes in for a transmission overhaul, gets the same inspection. Ryan Snow: Wow. Jimmy Lea: That's pretty good. So it must be a pretty good in-depth inspection for everybody that they're getting. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Yeah. I know we would all like to, we would all like it to be a little bit quicker, but as a group we kind of decided that we want these things noted. We want these things tracked, Jimmy Lea: you know, and there's some CCYA. Jimmy Lea: Doing a thorough digital inspection. And speaking from experience, 'cause I've gotten your digital vehicle inspections. You guys do a really thorough good job and I appreciate that as a consumer. Ryan Snow: Yeah. There, there is a time investment into it and there is a monetary investment to it. Ryan Snow: You know, I pay my technicians to do a DVI, I know a lot of places don't how much you pay. I know. 0.25. Jimmy Lea: Point two five. Nice. That's solid. Ryan Snow: And we aim at, you know, getting it done in a true 15 minutes. But you know, that at least covers the time. It's not a big thing. But I'll sit in a round table and argue with people until we're all red in the face on whether that's a good thing to do or a bad thing to do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The only thing I'd say is you, we should pay three tenths and give the tech more time to do it. 'cause the more time, the more thorough, you know, I, but there's the, there's a long argument there too. Ryan Snow: I think that there ought to be a flat rate inspection fee for every vehicle that comes in to ensure safety. Ryan Snow: But you know, most states are going away from safety inspections. And so it's on us as an industry to at least point it out and say, Hey, this is already unsafe or rapidly gonna be unsafe. Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. When was it that Utah stopped doing their state inspections? How long ago was that? Ryan Snow: I wanna say it's been four or five years now. Jimmy Lea: So it's probably 2019 ish. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Somewhere 20 19, 20 21. Somewhere in there. Jimmy Lea: My word seems like it was just yesterday. Time flies. Yeah. Unreal. Well, congrats on where you're at and where you've come up through the ranks. It sounds like you took a little hiatus for some videography, photography. Jimmy Lea: But yeah, Ryan Snow: The automotive industry is one of those sticky industries where you can try to walk away, but you might not make it very far. Jimmy Lea: Nope. You usually don't because that 10 30 oil weight is just running through your veins and, you know, you gotta get back to it. So that's awesome. Jimmy Lea: What does the future look like for you, Ryan? Where are you gonna go? What is the three year, the five year, the 10 year plan for Ryan Snow, the family, your partners? What does that look like? Ryan Snow: For us as a company a big motivation has kind of been, you know, we've always grown our own technicians. Ryan Snow: We've brought a lot of guys up from fresh to being super legit Pepsi challenge full stack technicians, and it takes a long time and there's a lot of. There's a lot of pain and suffering that goes into that development. And so we've always been trying to figure out how do we do that better? Ryan Snow: How do we insulate the company from the liability of a new technician? Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ryan Snow: Especially if we're doing any heavy line work, complex work, late model European cars, like the liability can get expensive very quickly. And so if we're only limited to saying, you know, like, you can only come work in my shop if you're an a technician and have a bunch of years of experience, I would love to have an entire company full of those people. Ryan Snow: And I get that mentality, but somebody in the industry has to be able to create the environment to cycle, you know, technicians through that initial learning curve. That means giving people room to make mistakes and mistakes cost money. And they cost time and they cost goodwill with customers. Ryan Snow: So we're always trying to figure out how to balance that and increase our ability to, you know, find people that really wanna work, really want to get into the industry and be able to actually do it. 'cause I'm not gonna say we've ever been good at doing that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: So that was another big motivation for, you know, expanding the shop is to get more, you know, c tech work and d tech work floating around so that we can have more of that stuff to do. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Are you participating in the community at all or the high schools? Dixie Dixie High School comes to my mind. I know they've got an auto program as does desert Hills High School. Do you get involved with them at all with their program? Ryan Snow: I I'm more directly involved with the technical college. Ryan Snow: You know, Dixie Technical College has a sub one year automotive program. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ryan Snow: And so I think they're running multiple cohorts at a time now. So they graduate two to three tranches of students a year. Whoa. So I sit on that it's called the Occupational Advisory Council Board. And you know, there's a meeting, I think once a quarter for that, and that gets pretty involved. Ryan Snow: I've always found it really interesting that I'm usually the only independent shop that's there every, it's all dealerships. Every dealership has got people there and every dealership is stinking money and cars and scan tools and free training into, you know, into the trade school. Ryan Snow: And I'm the only independent guy there. So. I also sit on the board for the Automatic Transmission Rebuilds Association. And so I, I was able to help facilitate a relationship with the A TRA organization and the college by being a sponsor. So all the students have access to all of the virtual training system training modules that are inside of the ATRA membership platform. Jimmy Lea: Dude, that's awesome. Ryan Snow: And so, so now the, when they go through transmission training on that, it's like two or three weeks and maybe one week, then the shop in two weeks or classroom time. And so if anybody's brain is tickled when their hands are actually inside of it, like I need them to be able to like go explore that more. Ryan Snow: Go learn more about that. 'cause if you like that there's, we got there's still people that do that at a, you know, for a living. So maybe, oh yeah, maybe we need to talk. Jimmy Lea: Well, congrats man. That, that is awesome. Is Dixie Technical College? Is that's not the same as Utah Tech. Jimmy Lea: Those are two. Yeah. Ryan Snow: Ut u Yeah. Utah Tech is the main university Dixon Technical College is up on the old airport hill. And they're just a, they're just a grade school, so they do automotive, diesel, welding, auto body, culinary drafting bunch of stuff. It's a really cool set up there. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. I have not been to that one. I know of it. I know where it is, but I've never been into it. The Dixie. Yeah. Next Ryan Snow: time you're in town. We'll they'll stick your head in there. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Well, dang it. The problem is I'm there on a weekend now. It's gonna be the weekend. So we're coming, the beginning of November, we're gonna celebrate the grandbaby's birthdays. Jimmy Lea: Oh, cool. Passing through town. Yeah. Yeah. That's Ryan Snow: all fun. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Aside from that the future of the company is a lot of new technology coming out. There's a lot new, a lot of new transmissions. You know, they keep adding more gears to more automatic transmissions, and every time that happens, we get to completely relearn a whole bunch of new mechanisms, a whole assembly and disassembly process, all new program strategy or control strategies. Ryan Snow: So, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Ryan Snow: What do you think of Jimmy Lea: these CVTs? Ryan Snow: I think they're getting better, but, oh, that's Jimmy Lea: good. That's good to hear. Ryan Snow: I think that the, like the Nissan, the, you know, the Nissan CVT debacle has probably done more damage to the brand than any other one thing that they could have done. Jimmy Lea: Oh no. So Ryan Snow: many people that had a Nissan CVT failure will probably never buy a Nissan product again. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So for my mother who's listening, and she wants to know what is a CVT, it's a continuously variable transmission. Jimmy Lea: Is that right? Is that the acronym? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And so, Nissan is famous for having them. Honda had them for a minute. Are they still doing cbts in the Hondas? Ryan Snow: It seems like they've got some new ones. There's always a big push for everybody to go back to cbts because they're really advantageous for fuel economy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: And a lot of 'em, if you keep the fluid fresh and keep the fluid from getting hot, then they're not nearly as bad. But they are severely under maintained by the time they get to us. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Usually. And that's a thousand piece jigsaw puzzle with no pitcher. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And that sucker starts falling apart. Jimmy Lea: Forget about it. That's tough. Ryan Snow: But yeah, the the transmission games always evolving, always getting more interesting. So we're gonna, you know, that's kind of our DNA, so we're always gonna stay on the front line of what's going on there. Jimmy Lea: Nice. It's, so your plan is you're bringing up some apprentice. Jimmy Lea: You've got some Gs, you've got some Ctec, some bts and quite a few ATECs are your ATECs of that teaching mindset where they're able to work with these guys and help bring them along? Ryan Snow: Some guys are if everybody's trying to stay productive that it's hard to have a bunch of new personalities that need assistance going on at once. Ryan Snow: Right. And so, well, we, we try to really just promote a communal knowledge mindset. So we get together, like if somebody learns something really weird about a vehicle or about a particular job, a lot of times. You know, the next time we're in a huddle or something like that, we're gonna talk about it and make sure everybody, you know, knows about that. Jimmy Lea: Like the, like a lunch and learn. Everybody gets together for a lunch and Ryan Snow: learn. Yeah. You know, like, like the first time somebody figured out like, oh, if you wiggle your arm, just this way you can get to the oil pressure sender on the backside of an LS motor without taking the intake off. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Ryan Snow: Everybody gather around. I'm gonna show you the angle that you gotta get to, and then you can get to it, and that's gonna just save everybody a whole lot of heartache. And I was like, excellent. Okay. Great. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Yeah. That is, and that's cool. That's cool that you have that because that reinforces the learning when the person that learns the most is the teacher. Jimmy Lea: So once a student has learned it and now they go to teach it, they learn even more by teaching it to everybody else. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And it sticks longer. Ryan Snow: Yeah. We've talked a lot about, Ryan Snow: you start coming up through business and you start delegating more things. You start adding more staff. You start adding, you know, additional layers of leadership inside of a company. Ryan Snow: Yep. And then you gotta watch somebody that you trained. Go train somebody else. And I'll be damned if they do not always train at a rate that is about double what they were doing really? And so I'm always, you know, it's always like, Hey, like you just, you know, you just trained Sally this process perfectly, but you do it this way. Ryan Snow: That means you knew the whole time Jimmy Lea: you called how to Ryan Snow: actually do it. So you didn't give that discretionary effort. Now you're a manager and you're trying to get that discretionary effort outta somebody and it just, and keeps getting kicked down the road. See how that works? Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You gotta hold 'em accountable. This is the process of procedure. You're not doing it this way. Gotta hold 'em accountable. Wow. It does happen. It does happen. So the option, the the plan is that you're growing your own, you got the apprentices coming up. You're really looking at optimizing a single location to be a mega, mega multimillion dollar per year performance. Jimmy Lea: Out of we'll call it two buildings. But isn't it really just, is it really just one business or are you still running them separate? Ryan Snow: It's two brands, but it is one business. Okay. It's basically two different departments, Jimmy Lea: correct? Correct. So you man, you must be up. Can I guess, are you up in the 3.6, 4.2 million per year range? Ryan Snow: Yeah. We should be in, in that kind of a range for this year and that that should be a stepping stone for us. Like we've got a, we've got a big period of refinement to go through. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ryan Snow: But you know, the total building capacity is almost just sickening. The delta between where we're at and what the total building capacity is. Ryan Snow: So Jimmy Lea: that's what I was gonna ask. What is the full potential? I'm figuring it's gotta be six to 8 million. Ryan Snow: It's like full potential. Like if you had a tech in every bay and everything was running slick and you had half a dozen really solid leaders running around, keeping all the cats herded. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Yes. Cat herd included. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: Then yeah, the campus is probably six to $8 million a year at full Monty. I don't know if it's, I don't know if I am a good enough leader to get it to that point. Jimmy Lea: Well, and that's where you have to surround yourself with the team and the team. Yeah. They lock arms together. You can't do it yourself. Jimmy Lea: There's no way. Yeah. There's no way no individual could lift that. But as a team working together, you go from me to we, that becomes the we attitude together. We can do this, let's do this. And that gets the buy-in from everybody. They're all firing on all eight cylinders. They're all putting in a hundred percent. Jimmy Lea: You, you're efficiency, proficiency, output productivity is a hundred percent, 105%, 110%, 120%. When you get up into that range of production, dude, sky's the limit. No, the sky's not. Ryan Snow: Yeah, that's, it gets massive. I know some guys around the country that, you know, I've always been reaching out, trying to talk to people that are just running really big single locations because it's just a different animal. Ryan Snow: It's a different animal than running three or four, you know, three or four or five bay locations. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Oh, totally. Ryan Snow: And do you know who's Jimmy Lea: should talk to? Do you know Tracy Holt? Precision Performance Place? Yeah. Tracy Performance Place. I'll give you his number afterwards. Lemme write that down. Jimmy Lea: Down 20 bays, 20 lifts up in South Jordan, west Jordan. Something like that. Ryan Snow: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've I think I tripped over him online one time and that was on my list of somebody I needed to talk to. But you know, we've gone from you know, for years and years, we always had, you know, between nine and 11 employees and now we're probably gonna be, you know, knocking on 20 by the end of the year. Ryan Snow: And it's been hard to get the headcount up to where we need to be for the space that we have and for the amount of cars that are here, you know, which is just one of the challenges, the industry. But the. The management requirement, the leadership requirement, the HR expense, the benefit expense of having a crew that big is just a different problem that I'm only going through for the first time. Ryan Snow: So I, I lean on a lot of people that I know that are, you know, that run 16, 18 bay shops. And I know a guy that he, I know a guy that's got two different 12 or 14 bay shops. I don't exactly know but I do know that he is able to legitimately run about a 36% net every single month because he can outrun that overhead with half of his, you know, half of his production space. Ryan Snow: He cannot out run overhead. And so everything that happens on top of that is just gravy. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Denny, so Denny's might be a good one to talk to as well. I don't know how many bays he has. Mitch. Mitch and Darren Montour. Do you know them? Ryan Snow: Where are they out of? Jimmy Lea: Ooh. The South Jordan area as well. Jimmy Lea: I think Ryan Snow: Northern. I don't think so. I know a lot more people from around the country than I do like in northern Utah. It's kind of funny. Yeah, I gotta get up and I gotta get up and shake more hands up there. Jimmy Lea: Come on up, man. I got a place for you. Ryan Snow: Let's do it. Come Jimmy Lea: on up. You're welcome. Yeah. Get running a garage, Mahal, as you are, is a different beast than running multiple locations, multiple operations of a three bays or four bays, or even six bays. Jimmy Lea: If you got multiples to equal what you have at a single location, it's a different beast. So you're tackling quite the beast there, and congratulations to you. That's super awesome that you're able to do. Oh, thank Ryan Snow: you. I don't recommend anybody. Go for it. Ryan Snow: That's not true. There, there's obviously scenarios and every business is different, but I think that if I had to, if I had to do it all over again, I'd, I would probably try to maximize a six base shop and then go maximize a six base shop and then go maximize a six bay shop. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: No that's sound advice. Tom Lambert might be another one for you to talk to. Shade Trudo. Ryan Snow: Yeah, I have talked to him a couple times. Oh Jimmy Lea: yeah, he's a rad dude. He just bought, well, just his relative, I think a few years ago he bought a second location or third location actually. AB Hadley up there in Ogden. Ryan Snow: Oh, good for them. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It's the old Studebaker building. Ryan Snow: Oh, cool. It is. That's a cool legacy to have. Jimmy Lea: It is a cool, and when you get up there to see the building, dude, because next time you come to Mars, it is just down the street from the institute's headquarters. Ryan Snow: When is the next Mars? Jimmy Lea: We just had the last one, so it's gonna be another year before we have it Next year. I'll get it for you. I'll email you and let you know when that date is. Ryan Snow: Is it usually like September-ish though? Jimmy Lea: It's usually, yeah. August, September, October. Somewhere in that range. So I'll let you know. I'll have to get you up. Jimmy Lea: Awesome. So, something that, because you've been in the photography industry something I would love to talk to you about is marketing for the modern shops. What do you think are some of those challenges that shops are really facing when it comes to marketing? Ryan Snow: Ooh. This is one of those things that, oh the painter's house is always painted last. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. The copper's children never have good shoes and the landscapers. Yeah. I, yeah I don't, Ryan Snow: I don't take, I don't take care of my stuff as, as well as I should or as well as I'm capable of. I think that a lot of things are changing. I've been doing a lot of interesting reading about the AI influence on Google search, just in relation to auto repair. Ryan Snow: Okay. Jimmy Lea: What do you mean? And seeing, Ryan Snow: What I'm seeing. And I was lucky enough to have a couple of conversations with some people that, that are contractors for Google. And they, you know, they used to work for ad you know, the AdWords department or whatever AdWords section of Google. Ryan Snow: They're doing this other thing but what they've been, you know, talking to me and what I've been, you know, what I've been reading on is a lot of the, a lot of the keyword based searching that converted most for an auto repair shop was things like auto repair near me, oil change repair near me water pump repair or AC repair, and, you know, coupled with a geographic location and then authority based ranking based on your reviews the amount of hitch your website gets, if people click around on your website. Ryan Snow: All those things kind of coming together. And there, there is a beginning of a potential trend of people asking way more direct questions about their car. Ai, AI to Google search but Google search, but even if you don't, even if you don't search, you know, through the AI portal in Google, they are using, you know, they are using their whole AI platform to, to start to rearrange how results are served. Ryan Snow: And so people are asking really specific questions like, I drive a 2013 Nissan Sentra with a CVT, that shutters, where should I go? Wow. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ryan Snow: And now, you know, the, all of the content that's on your website, everybody who's been talking about you on Facebook or Reddit or Twitter. All of that stuff is getting looked at in a way that it wasn't before your blog pages. Ryan Snow: Like for a long time, blogs have been such trash because they're just generic. SEO Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: There's nothing interesting in 'em. It doesn't sound like a human wrote 'em, it, it sounds like an SEO bot wrote them. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: And that is starting to d your authority level at some level in the modern search results, I feel, because you're not really providing good information or good con content, and you're not communicating in your blog the way that you would communicate to a customer that was sitting across from you at the counter. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you gotta write it like you're talking to a customer, not like you're talking. Yeah. You gotta write it like you're Ryan Snow: interacting with a human, because now the computer is really good at knowing what a human wants to hear. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and that's that large language. Ryan Snow: Predictive text. Ryan Snow: Like it's just guessing what's gonna come next based off of what it already has covered. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So all those blogs are valuable if it's written in your language, if it's not a copy and paste from some Ryan Snow: Yeah, I, you know what? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what the, I can't, I, I don't know what the right answer is, but everything that we're doing with our online presence has to be demonstrating expertise, authority, and integrity. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Or Ryan Snow: else it is not gonna weigh as well against what you're currently doing. So if you're spending a bunch of money on Google AdWords, you gotta start looking at that really close. 'cause if you're reading a lot about what's going on right now, you're gonna end up being more familiar with it than whoever your vendor is. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Quite potentially. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. The local ads. They cost you twice as much, but it's much more qualified than a normal Google ad. Jimmy Lea: And have you gotten your shops Google certified? Ryan Snow: I started to get the local service certification, and I got hung up on my LLC and my DBA and my second DBA and my insurance certificate of off, or my certificate of insurance. Ryan Snow: Not all jiving and Right. So I'm in the middle of trying to get it all undone. Okay. And then I've talked to a handful of people in the country that the local service ads are just killing it for 'em, and some of 'em are just kind of not working that well. So it's interesting to see and I don't know how much they're changing, but I also was told recently that they're changing up some of the. Ryan Snow: Requirements for the local services ads and Yes. And maybe how they actually serve it up to the the users. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, after Google got sued a few times for Google's old certification process, they had to change it up. That's why it's such a heavy lift for you these days. You've gotta get it all dialed in. Jimmy Lea: Right. And once you do, it'll be really good for you. Ryan Snow: Got my distracting shop dog now. Jimmy Lea: Oh, you, that's a gorgeous, Ryan Snow: he is a good dog. Jimmy Lea: Nice. What's the name? Rocco. What's up, Rocco? Oh, he's gone. Yeah. So the the process here is much more of a heavy lift for you because to be Google certified now you do have to certify. Jimmy Lea: It's more than just a picture and a location and a web address. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Yeah. There, there's a. A higher level of establishing bonafides before you can get that badge. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's right. Which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing. No, it is a, it's a good thing. It keeps the riffraff away. That hopefully is what brought it down originally. Jimmy Lea: And it allows you to operate more professionally. And just like in any market, what works Well, some markets, yeah. Rural Yelp is not a thing. Some markets heavy heavily populated East Coast, west Coast, Yelp is very strong in those markets. Each market is different. What pops, what hits some markets, it's Facebook. Jimmy Lea: Some markets, it's all about Yelp. Some markets it's about Google search. Ryan Snow: I used to swear that mailers were just an absolute waste of time. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Are you doing postcards now? Ryan Snow: Yeah. And then I figured, and then I figured out how they work, and then I figured out how to actually track data and how to be patient and how to do some aid and testing. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Excellent. Ryan Snow: And you know, oh look you can't just do it once and get an amazing result and then be done. Like, this is constant evolvement. It's constant monitoring. It's constant tracking. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How do you track it? How do you track your postcards? Ryan Snow: We mark 'em in the shop management system as a source, and then we clip all the coupons throughout the ro number on 'em and put 'em in the till. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Ryan Snow: So some poor individual, A lot of times me sits down and plugs, you know, just starts a, we have a big spreadsheet, so start with the RO number and then we can divide and conquer and go, you know, pull the RO number and let's grab what did we recommend? What did we close? Has the customer been here before? Ryan Snow: Now I'm starting to be, now I'm starting to, you know, be able to tie my database back and say like, okay, they came in for a mailer, oil change. And then they came in again. And then they came in again and now their A RO is back up to being a normal A RO because they got to try us a few times and now they like us. Ryan Snow: Now they trust us. Now we can roll. Jimmy Lea: There you go. I think you just hit on it right there. When they trust you, then you're able to. Make those additional recommendations. And then, which is a, Ryan Snow: which is a trip for me. Yeah. Because I come from a transmission and a heavy line breakdown world. So my first time visit a RO is traditionally three times higher Yeah. Ryan Snow: Than my repeat customer, a RO. And then, you know, I jump into the other side of the world where most of my friends operate, and now it's the complete opposite. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And this is where you're learning that patient first Ryan Snow: time. Yeah. You know, launch a new location or a new brand or something like that. Ryan Snow: And you know, even if every, even if everybody tells you to get ready for your first time, visit a RO to be sub hundred dollars for a bunch of visits. Like, it can happen. It can happen. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Especially if it's, especially if it's brand new. So those first time visit coupon clippers, postcards. Jimmy Lea: First time visit for an oil service that are coming in for just the oil service. Are they getting the same DVI as everybody else? Yep. Nice. So you're pointing out to them, Hey, these are the things that, this is red, yellow, green. I'm assuming this some similar process to the red, yellow, green, red says, these are safety things, whether you do 'em here with us or not, it's up to you. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You can't can watch it. You can't Ryan Snow: scare, yeah. You can't scare everybody away. If somebody comes in with, you know, if somebody comes in with a $75 oil change coupon on an Audi and you hit 'em with a $3,500 quote, even if it's super legit and every, you know, every bit of that thing is needed, they're most likely not gonna buy it from you or they're gonna buy it from you and you're never gonna see 'em again. Jimmy Lea: And we're looking for longevity. We want the relationship. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Yeah. Obviously it's not every time, it's just if we zoom way back out and look at math. Jimmy Lea: Yes. A hundred percent. Ryan Snow: You know, you gotta be able to say, Hey, we looked at everything. Here are the facts. Would you like to come out and look, we have photos, we have videos. Ryan Snow: I can walk you out and I can show you. You can touch it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. This is what your car's telling us. It's not us. This is what the car is saying. So if you're upset at anybody, look at the car. Yeah. Be upset at the car, not at me. Ryan Snow: Yeah. We're, we are here to slay that dragon with you, you know, and then the next time it comes in, okay, look, this problem is getting worse, or this leak is getting bigger. Ryan Snow: We can put off doing this, but you're need to start thinking about doing this. And then, you know, it might take a trip or two, you might kill it the first time and just lock a customer in for life. Or it might go completely sideways and you have to come back from total calamity and then that's your best customer for a decade. Ryan Snow: Oh yeah. A, a lot of the game has given people the room to try you out and see if you like each other. Sure. We can continue to do this together. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Kind of that dating system, that dating game where you're finding Yeah. If you guys are gonna get along or not. Yeah. So true. So postcards, that's something new that you're trying out. Jimmy Lea: Google certification, that's a process definitely worth it. I Ryan Snow: would, yeah. Google Certification's process. A buddy of mine earlier this year, we made a bet that we wouldn't have the balls to just cancel our Google ads. Ooh. So I did. Oh yeah. Wow. Okay. And we, we leaned into some geographic based you know, retargeting and banner ads and stronger search engine marketing and you know, optimizing some stuff on the website and. Ryan Snow: I'll be jammed if I don't have like 40% more Google business profile interactions this year over last year, and probably close to double website clicks. Jimmy Lea: Interesting. So a lot of that organic and Yeah, this is new. Like I, Ryan Snow: I, I learned that earlier this week when we finally started to sit down and go through stuff. Ryan Snow: So, Jimmy Lea: congratulations. That's all. I didn't Ryan Snow: expect it. You know, we're tracking call count, you know, the inbound phone calls all the way through that and everything, so, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Oh, that's good. Hey, and with your inbound phone calls, do you have the technology to be able to track was an opportunity missed, lost made? Ryan Snow: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ryan Snow: Yeah, we can see all phone calls that are inbound. If it's the first time the number has called or not. We get really nice transcription so we get like an AI transcription and then we can see. Did somebody call to schedule? Did somebody call, was it just a price shopper? Jimmy Lea: Love it. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Ryan Snow: If I can just get a tag of all the price shoppers so I can go through and look at those calls and see, yeah how did we handle the price shoppers? Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. So, couple questions for you. One is about your phone system first. But first is about your point of sale system that you're marking it as a postcard. Jimmy Lea: What point of sale system are you using? Ryan Snow: We're using shop wear. Jimmy Lea: Shop wear, phenomenal software. Phenomenal. Okay, good. And then second is your phone system. How is it that you're able to see if it's a first time caller, the ai, the transcript, that sounds like quite the system you've got. What are you using for your phone system? Ryan Snow: It's pretty impressive. It's called Digital Concierge. They, I don't know what they were doing before, but there's a company called Octo Rocket that is like a data analytics platform that integrates with Tech metric and. Shop ware, maybe a handful of others. And they acquired, or were acquired by a voiceover IP company called Digital Concierge. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Ryan Snow: That they've got a, they've got a lot of really solid CRM tools and they have a really robust voiceover IP setup. And with that all tied in and integrated with the point of sale system, now I can do things like if I see a decline, you know, if I see a ticket that was just declined, I can go say, all right, what were all of the communications. Ryan Snow: Involved with that Ro, you know, where did that source, like where did that source come from? Who talks to 'em? How did we present it? Where did we drop the ball? And then it's a lot easier to be able to train somebody through that scenario because you can say, look like the rest of your team teed you up. Ryan Snow: And then it went here and dropped. Dropped. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. That's powerful. And especially because you can do it in real time. This was yesterday. This was earlier this week. It's not like, oh, this is a call from a month ago. It took us a month to find it, to research it, to tie all this phone calls together. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Or I had to wait for a customer to be mad enough for long enough that they decided to reach out to me to let me know that there was a problem. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And Ryan Snow: now I gotta go try to, you know, chase it back Jimmy Lea: and you can chase it much faster now. Ryan Snow: Yeah, you can get, you can run to the problem a lot quicker when it's, Jimmy Lea: oh, yeah. Oh, and you know what? You're teeing up a perfect scenario. What if a client approves the work, approves the job? They're arguing with you at the counter that says, they're saying, no, I did not approve it. Jimmy Lea: You click play and it could be the husband or the wife is in front of you. Here's the approval play. Ryan Snow: Yeah. There's, we're in a, we are in a litigious industry and having all the tools to protect yourself. It's important. All those all those tools can do more than one thing. So even if all you had it for was to protect, you know, to protect yourself. Jimmy Lea: DYA huh? It would Ryan Snow: be, it would be worth it. But there's so many more things that you get out of it that it's worth having. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it so is it, so is having a great phone system is paramount. That communication, being able to speak to people. It, we are in a relationship business and really part of relationship is communication, so. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's phenomenal. What other marketing ideas, what other marketing concepts or philosophies, theologies, what are you doing? Ryan Snow: We've intermittently tried to, you know, stay up on Instagram and Facebook. You know, we. We've done some work with a few people on YouTube and like been featured on their channel for a second. Ryan Snow: And so we'll get the itch like, oh, we, we get some views and we get some, we get to write on some coattails of being mentioned. Yeah. And we gotta put some content together, but it all falls apart as soon as we get busy. At least it does for me. Jimmy Lea: It's true. That's a hard one. That's a hard one to stay on top of that YouTube channel. Jimmy Lea: There, there's a couple of shops that do it extremely well, I think of days automotive and, the sherwoods, they do a great job of that. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Yeah. They just kill it. And I don't think I have the attention span to, to dedicate myself to that much, to it, to have that level of success. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: You know, I'd say in the last 18 months I've really tried to. Get in on what we can track data on. So, everything that happens online we can track really good data too. I used to hate tracking numbers. I remember when the phone book ad people used to come in and want to sell us a tracking number so they could tell us how many phone calls they generated. Ryan Snow: And I thought that was the dumbest idea ever. Now I have like 24 different tracking numbers. Jimmy Lea: Right. I know. I used to be, I used to be one of those guys. I was selling tracking numbers, not that I was with the phone book, I was with conversa or log my calls back in the day. Oh yeah. Long my calls. Ryan Snow: Yeah. But you know, everything we do online, we can track really well. I have been doing some radio and. We, you know, we get people come in and mention it, but you can't really, that's a hard track it as a hard source. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's top of mind. That's that top of mind marketing. Ryan Snow: Yeah. But it's fun. Ryan Snow: You get out there, make some noise. We try to sponsor some community events. I don't go crazy with it, but, you know, you know, rodeos there's a new men's baseball league that started up in southern Utah this year. So we're the Hall of Fame sponsor and the inaugural, you know, big sponsor. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Ryan Snow: For that men's baseball league. So that was fun. I got to go out and butcher throwing a first pitch for the first time in my life Jimmy Lea: then. Yeah. And did you throw it over his head or did you throw it in the dirt? Ryan Snow: I like bounced it at the plate and they were like, Hey, yeah. At least you made it to the plate. Ryan Snow: And I'm like, that's a for showing. Jimmy Lea: That's a win. We'll take it. Ryan Snow: Well, that was cool. You know, went out to the game and you know, shot some photos for him and, you know, took the big camera out and rattled off a bunch of frames and got him a bunch of shots the next day. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Ryan Snow: Got see, you know, see logo on all the baseball jerseys. And I was like, ah, it feels pretty, that feels pretty wholesome. Ryan Snow: I like that. Jimmy Lea: Gotta love that. Congrats man. Way to sponsor the baseball team. Maybe I can get my son out on that baseball team. Ryan Snow: Yeah they had a, I can't remember how many teams they ended up with, but it was like nine or 10 different teams. Wow. So way more players at the games than spectators, but Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. Jimmy Lea: For sure. That's awesome stuff. Like, Ryan Snow: that's fun. We'll have to, we'll have to see. See what it turns into. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. It'll be a fun thing. Was there anything else that you would want to discuss marketing wise, shop wise, personnel wise, people wise that we haven't talked about already? Ryan Snow: I think what I think what I'd like to end on is you and I have had some conversations over the years in the past about like, like, what is, what does the industry need? Ryan Snow: You know, what can we even do as low humans to help service the industry? But, you know, maybe it's just because I've been on a big recruitment push for the last year and a half, and I've had to hire and start to develop and let some guys go, or have some guys leave me. That, that I think one of the in, in the top three issues of scaling a business are our ability to, you know, recruit and retain talented people. Jimmy Lea: Amen. Amen. Ryan Snow: And when you bring somebody who is talented, that still has a lot of potential to grow. You know, can our company even move fast enough to hold onto people like that? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Okay. So what do you think? And tho Ryan Snow: and tho and those are the winners, like those are the people that you want to hang onto for a really long time. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. I love it. I love where you're going. Keep going. Ryan Snow: And so, as you know, so as a business owner and as a leader, that's what keeps me up at night is I don't believe it. When people say nobody wants to work. I don't believe it. When people say that there's no technicians to hire, I don't believe it when people say that this is a declining industry. Ryan Snow: What I do know is that the way we come up through the industry, the way we have come up through the industry is definitely not the way that we're gonna be moving forward. And you know, just because it had to go a certain way for me doesn't mean that it needs to go that certain way for somebody that's just jumping into the industry now. Ryan Snow: And so when I try to dream about my company, I'm always dreaming about a company that, that has enough lateral mobility for people to, if they get on a bus and they find out in the wrong seat, like, how do we have another seat for that person? That's why I'm drawn to a larger scale, single location, because there's a lot more kind of micro positions that start to establish as you divvy up tasks there there's a couple of different places where you could sit to where you might be able to employ more of your strengths and have somebody else be able to cover your weaknesses. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: I haven't figured it out yet. I can probably be completely wrong. This is not legal or financial advice. You should be doing something more productive with your time and not listening to me. Jimmy Lea: The school of hard knocks gives your qualifications and you are qualified, sir. Ryan Snow: But that's what I think the biggest issue of the industry is we have to evolve and we have to be able to move fast through a rapidly changing set of technology, a rapidly changing economic system, a rapidly changing political system. Ryan Snow: And people say that doesn't influence anything about cars, but it absolutely does. And we're gonna have to do it with the bulk of the knowledge base that exists in the industry on the retirement end of scale, moving the way out. And luckily. So much of that knowledge and that wisdom is, it's not that, it's not that it's outdated or antiquated, it's just not current anymore. Ryan Snow: And so everybody in the industry has already had to kind of move on and get onto this leading edge instead of the trailing edge. And if we hadn't already gone through that, we would already be screwed. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's the beauty of this industry. It's an ever evolving, ever learning experience. Jimmy Lea: And we can make mistakes and we can learn from our mistakes. We learn more from our failure than we do our success. Hopefully we don't fail too much on the road to success Ryan Snow: that we get to deal with 100% variables with 100%, you know, gumption. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: You know, ev every scenario starts off a little differently and every place that scenario happens at is a little bit different. Jimmy Lea: We live in a world of multitude of correct answers. Ryan Snow: And that's a problem. Yeah. I've had to start going through, I'm not real big on Facebook, but I've had to start going through and just leaving a bunch of Facebook groups because every, there's a lot of noise out there. You just get one, one group of people that are like, no, this Kool-Aid is the right Kool-Aid, and everybody else is a freaking idiot. Jimmy Lea: No, that's your Kool-Aid. Ryan Snow: And that's your Kool-Aid? No, this one over here is me. Yeah. So like I don't buy all, yeah. I don't buy all this drama that's getting stirred up about different coaching groups or different angles of business or Jimmy Lea: Yeah, Ryan Snow: whatever. Whatever these kids are squabbling about these days. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, you know how to keep a lobster inside of a basket, don't you? How's that? You put in another lobster. Or a crab. You put in a crab. If you only have one, yes, you climb right out. But if you put two crabs in there, they'll keep pulling each other down. Can give somebody Ryan Snow: something to fight. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So, so, yeah, I agree with you. Jimmy Lea: Pull out of those ones that are just noise. Ryan Snow: Yeah. There, there is so much business for everybody that's in this business. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: There's no reason we need to be trying to race to the bottom or cut each other's throats. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ryan Snow: The better the aftermarket works as an industry, the better it's gonna be for everybody in the industry. Ryan Snow: So, Jimmy Lea: that's right. Let's lock arms because there's and to coaching and training. I do believe that every shop needs a coach and a trainer. Just as every professional athlete needs a coach and a trainer and they have multiple, yeah. It helps you to be better. It holds you accountable. If you're left to your own devices, you'll accept your own excuses. Ryan Snow: You can only go so far without knowing what you don't know. Jimmy Lea: Exactly. Ryan Snow: Hundred Jimmy Lea: percent. And Ryan Snow: you don't want to, you don't want to be the once, once you're the smartest person in the room where, what are you supposed to do? You gotta find a different room. You gotta find a different room. So Jimmy Lea: yeah, Ryan Snow: that, that's been a massive benefit for me. Ryan Snow: You know, I stepped into coaching. I already have a decent understanding of how to run a business, but I had a very poor understanding of how to be a good leader or how to be, how to actually be a good manager. And, you know, I got massive amounts of help through the, you know, the direction and the support and the network of people that you developed. Jimmy Lea: I love it. You Ryan Snow: know, doesn't have to be even through a coaching group. Like, like there's a thousand ways to meet people in the industry. Just go meet 'em and talk to 'em. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. And there's plenty, a plethora of personal self-help books. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: In a way it read one of Read Reader Leaders are readers, and it is so true. Jimmy Lea: If you're not reading, you're not learning, you're not growing, you're becoming stagnant. Is there a book that you're reading right now, Ryan? Ryan Snow: I just restarted reading a book that I probably read like 15 years ago that I really like called so Good that they Can't Ignore You. Oh, I love that. It's by Cal Newport. Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. Ryan Snow: And it talks about how, you know, the concept of if you do a thing that you love, you're never working, Jimmy Lea: doesn't quite Ryan Snow: hold, doesn't quite hold water. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Because you're working even harder. Ryan Snow: Yeah. Like, what if you take a really honest account of what your strengths are, Uhhuh and what you're not good at. Ryan Snow: Yeah. And found something that, that employed your strengths. How much more powerful could that be? Jimmy Lea: Oh, it is absolutely more powerful. So the most recent book that I've been reading is the how to make offers So Good. People Feel, let's see the full title. How to Make Offers So Good. Jimmy Lea: People Feel Stupid saying No. Ryan Snow: Interesting. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And there's a whole series of books here that I'm gonna be reading. Alex Hermo or Mozy. Ryan Snow: Oh, I feel like I've read something else by that guy. Jimmy Lea: He has a hundred million dollar offers, a hundred million dollar leads, a hundred million dollar sales. Jimmy Lea: He's got a whole series of stuff and he started in the Gym Gymnasium world. And I Ryan Snow: I just heard of a book that I'm gonna look up while I'm on here so I don't forget, called How how to Make a Few Billion Dollars. Jimmy Lea: A few million. Okay. Ryan Snow: A few billion dollars. Oh, a Jimmy Lea: few B billion. Okay. Ryan Snow: Yeah. By Brad Jacobs. Ryan Snow: I heard this, I heard a clip of this guy talking about you know, making business acquisitions and thought it sounded really interesting and that caught my eye. So I'm gonna download that right now so I can check it out. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I just wrote it down as well, Brad, Jake. Nice. I'll check it out. For sure. Jimmy Lea: Well, Brian, it's been a pleasure talking with you. I, we could talk for hours and Dave Yeah. I Ryan Snow: was just thinking we've got a little long-winded, but that's what they get for putting the two of us together. Jimmy Lea: That's exactly right. We'll have to circle back again and do this again. Ryan, it's just been a, an awesome privilege and a pleasure to be able to speak with you today. Jimmy Lea: Thank you. Ryan Snow: Hey, anytime. Glad to be of assistance and it's good to see you. Good to see you, brother.

158 - From Tech to GM: Tyler Nichols on Building a Winning Shop October 14, 2025 - 00:41:25   Show Summary: Heat, reviews, and real talk from Stillwater set the stage as Tyler Nichols of X-tra Mile Auto Care breaks down culture, process, and growth. He shares how handwritten notes, follow-up calls, and thoughtful review responses power 4.7 stars on 371 Google reviews. Tyler traces his path from rainy-day helper to tech, advisor, and now GM under Aaron Woods. The episode dives into slow-and-steady expansion plans, including a new Stillwater facility and measured hiring. Inside the shop, a century-old former jail houses a five-bay operation with clear roles and Monday huddles. Training is a throughline: Leadership Intensive, local tech-school apprenticeships, and a rigorous “implement what you learned” habit. Tyler’s wish for the industry centers on ending apples-to-oranges price comparisons by leading with DVIs, goals-first conversations, and clear presentation.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Tyler Nichols, General Manager of X-tra Mile Auto Care   Show Highlights: [00:01:31] - Handwritten thank-you notes, treats in cars, and real connections with customers drive authentic five-star reviews. [00:02:44] - Tyler responds to a one-star review with empathy and ownership, calling the customer personally to rebuild trust. [00:04:12] - A rainy-day favor turns into a full-time role: Tyler shares how Aaron Woods introduced him to the automotive industry. [00:06:13] - Expansion plans include a new Stillwater facility and future growth into Tulsa or Oklahoma City, backed by M&A and HPG coaching. [00:08:23] - The shop’s unique location, a former jail, adds history and character to a five-bay layout designed for efficiency. [00:10:41] - Leadership Intensive, apprenticeships, and “Beast of the Month” recognition help the team grow personally and professionally. [00:16:49] - Tyler’s three pillars for reaching $1M: hire the right people, refine processes, and implement training immediately. [00:21:56] - A layout tweak and better communication between advisors and techs cut wasted time and boosted productivity. [00:37:30] - Tyler’s wish for the industry: end the pricing stigma and focus on transparency, safety, and value through DVIs.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. Welcome. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Tyler Nichols, and he is from X-tra Mile Autocare out of Stillwater, Oklahoma. Tyler, how the heck are you, brother? Tyler Nichols: I am hot for October, but I'm doing good. Jimmy Lea: Hot for October. Jimmy Lea: I'm in Utah. We are seeing 40 degrees in the morning. What do you mean? Tyler Nichols: It's 86 degrees here. Jimmy Lea: No way. Tyler Nichols: Yes, it's next week, it's gonna cool off, but Jimmy Lea: it's, oh yeah, we're, it's coming. We're 63. That's our high today. Tyler Nichols: But other than that, I'm doing great. Jimmy Lea: Oh good. Good to hear. Good to hear. Oh, I'm glad that you're here with me. Jimmy Lea: A couple of questions for you. I see 371. Business reviews, Google reviews. You are a 4.7 star shop. Doing very well, loving what you're doing. Great responses. How did you get so many reviews? Our Tyler Nichols: advisors I can't take any credit for that, or at least not in the time I've been away from the fund desk, but now they're so good at building relationships and really making connections with their people. Tyler Nichols: It's more than just fixing the car and getting 'em on the road. They really take their time to get to know them. Yeah, handwritten thank you notes and, you know, treats in the car after, I mean the they go so above and beyond that. It's it just makes it easy. Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's awesome. Jimmy Lea: That's so rad. I'm glad that your your advisors put that personalized touch with the handwritten notes that goes so far, man, that's super cool. Absolutely. That's super cool. So, are you, do you go in and do the responses to all of the Google reviews? Yes. Yes. Have you seen the most recent ones you've gotten, like in the last 21 hours? Tyler Nichols: I still gotta get those. Okay. Five. Yes. Jimmy Lea: So you got another five star, but then you got a one star. Did you see the one star? Tyler Nichols: Yes, sir. Oh my gosh. Spoke, spoke with him on the phone today. Jimmy Lea: Oh really? Oh good. So it's actually, it is a client. Tyler Nichols: It is. And e every the one star happen. They're few and far between for us, thankfully, but they do happen. Tyler Nichols: Whether it's our fault or not immediately, there's always something we can learn from it. So, oh, I had a great talk with him on the phone earlier. I don't ever ask him to remove a review, and we have a great talk. I, it's just, it's not why I'm calling. We just don't want anyone leaving our shop feeling that way. Tyler Nichols: And it's really just expressing that and, you know, tell 'em we'd love to love the, a chance to earn their trust in the future. So, Jimmy Lea: yeah, there you go. That's what you can do. And that's the exact same thing that you want to reply to on that. Review, right? So the next customer sees, oh, well these guys are human. Jimmy Lea: They really took the time to call me up on the phone. They took the time to talk to me. They took the time on a onestar to reach out and, right, they're gonna take ownership. So that's super awesome. I applaud you. I do notice on your Yelp that it's really low, so Yelp must not be a thing there in Oklahoma. Tyler Nichols: It's not. It's not. Go, Google's the main engine around here. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. It so is it. So is, that's really cool. So, first question is, how in the world did you get into the automotive industry? Tyler Nichols: So, my, the owner of our shop, Aaron Woods everybody listening knows Aaron Woods. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Aaron Woods is awesome. Jimmy Lea: Those who don't know, he is a coach with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. He is the facilitator of a few different of the gear groups. As well. The facilitator and head coach for the manager performance group. So, and yeah, he is deeply seated in his own business. Jimmy Lea: Recently expanded by a second location. Tyler Nichols: We're working on Jimmy Lea: it, opening a second location. Yeah we're working on it. Working on it. Super. Awesome. Glad to hear that. That's super cool. Congratulations. That's Oh, thank you. But Aaron Woods, what? He came to you and Tyler Nichols: said, Jimmy Lea: Hey Tyler Nichols: man, we. So I was not in this industry. Tyler Nichols: I was working for a landscape company and Aaron and I had known each other through different avenues before all of this. And landscaping in Oklahoma, we get a lot of rain and a lot of days you don't get to work. And Aaron, I can't remember how it, it started with Aaron and I, but it just. You know, would you come pull a motor out of something for me? Tyler Nichols: Well, you know, on the weekend or on a rainy day. And kind of started like that. And then he was having me help him deliver a vehicle up to northeast Oklahoma and kind of asked me, you ever thought about getting in this industry? And I was like, no. I hadn't really, I mean, I've worked on my own vehicles in the past, but never really thought about it and said, well, you know, I can offer you some work on the rainy days. Tyler Nichols: And it, it was enough work he was offering me on rainy days that I ended up coming on full time. So I started as a technician. Then just really trial by fire, getting to really get thrown into it and learn. And worked as a technician for a few years and moved to an advisor role here. Tyler Nichols: Worked as an advisor for two and a half years, and then luckily last I guess March of 24, I was able to move to the full-time general manager role that I'm currently doing today. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. That's awesome. When you go to a landscaper and say, Hey, we got a roof over our head, and you can have air conditioning, right, and it becomes very attractive. Tyler Nichols: And, you know, taking that job had no clue of the path that it could turn into. I just kind of thought, yeah, I could work on cars the rest of my life. It's, yeah, that'd be fun. And Aaron has provided a path that I could have never dreamed of making for myself. So I've been very blessed to, to have him and the team we have to be able to move to this position where I really just get to kind of help on the big picture stuff. Tyler Nichols: So it's great. Jimmy Lea: Oh man. That's awesome. Congratulations. So what does the path look like you, for you going forward? What does that look like? Tyler Nichols: We're expanding we, we are taking it very slow. We're good. Very cal, very calculated. He's, yeah. We're both working in the m and A group with Mike Smith and the HPG group, the High Performance Group. Tyler Nichols: Really making sure that the next step we make is the right step. It's calculated. So we are working on building a new location here in Stillwater to really work out any of the inefficiencies we have with our current location here. Building a great new facility. We've got a great lot, great location last year. Tyler Nichols: So we're just working on working with the engineers and everything to get that finalized. But expansion is the move, whether that's here in Stillwater, Tulsa, Oklahoma City. We're expanding and you know, eventually working to where I'm kinda overseeing a few different locations. Tyler Nichols: And able to, you kind of help Aaron in that way, so. Oh, I Jimmy Lea: love it. I love it. How far is Tulsa? How far is Oklahoma City? Logistically? Tyler Nichols: It's about 60 miles either way. So we're kind of right in the middle, so depending on which area of the city you need to go to, could be further. But to get to city limits, it's about 60, 70 miles. Tyler Nichols: Either, either city. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's not that far. That's great. Yeah. That's phenomenal. Very cool. So what does the current layout look like of the current shop? Because I know when Aaron started, he was like two bays at the back of the back of the back of a lot. Tyler Nichols: I got sick working in that building. Tyler Nichols: What I, yeah, it was a lot of standing water. Lot of black mold. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I got sick working in that shop. And that's thinking back to, I, he worked in that shop a lot more than I did. That was very early. But, you know, thinking back to those days and then where it is now is, it's not to change the subject, but it's something I love to think about and it's really great to see. Jimmy Lea: So have you been with Aaron through all this progression, through all the different shops that he's gone through? Tyler Nichols: Yes. Oh, I've worked at every location. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats dude. Alright, so give us the layout of the current location. What does that look like for you? Tyler Nichols: So we're right here in in downtown Stillwater. Tyler Nichols: It's a really cool building, a hundred and something years old, Stillwater's original jail. So if I could move my computer, I'd show you. But our bathroom is actually the first jail cell in Stillwater, which is really cool. Oh, that's awesome. But it's for obvious reasons. It's not open to the public. But it's really cool. Tyler Nichols: Nonetheless, it's the old school kind of dealership style open concept. We framed in an office that you can see here. Yeah. And we have five, two posts and a four post with alignment rack. It's the setup. We have three mainline technicians and a general service technician that, handles a lot of our oil changes tires, things like that. And then we have our other kind of, you know, general service technician that really helps with anything the guys need to help stay efficient. So Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Tyler Nichols: Keeping everything clean, organized, keep them moving. Jimmy Lea: Nice. And have you been able to sit down with your advisors, with your not advisors, I apologize with your GS tech. Jimmy Lea: And even your technicians that say, all right, this is the path. This is what we want to do. This is the training we're gonna send you to. We want you to learn and to grow and to become a better technician, better human being, da. Tyler Nichols: We have a technician that went to leadership intensive this year. Tyler Nichols: And was great for him. We have, and he our local tech school offers a really great evening apprenticeship program where people who are full-time working can attend that and in two years earn basically their technology school degree. So a lot of people such as I, I mean, came into the industry, not through the tech school route. Tyler Nichols: Right. Came in. So it really gives those guys a chance. Maybe that's something they always, man, I wish I would've gone that route. But he was able to do that and graduated earlier this year. And we have one of our other technicians and one of our GS techs that are also doing that program. Like, so. Tyler Nichols: But outside of that, everyone has, we have a lot of different development discussions and making sure everyone has goals, things they're working towards, just really. Helping them as much as we can in their personal lives as well. That's very important, Jimmy Lea: dude. I love that. So are you having I call 'em monthly meetings? Jimmy Lea: Or monthly meetings? Tyler Nichols: Meetings, try to weekly meetings, but monthly meetings? No. We have quick Monday morning, you know, immediate day to day. Let's go over a policy real quick. Let's audit and inspection. Let's get all, get on the same page. Love that with really me and the technicians. Then once a month we have everyone. Tyler Nichols: Aaron comes down and hosts this meeting, and we really talk about our mission, vision. Really coming back to the context statements pulling up examples. We do our Beast of the Month. If anyone has seen our Facebook, we have a beast of the month that's pure nominated award every month. Tyler Nichols: It's really great. It's fun. Everyone enjoys it, but. Well, Jimmy Lea: Is that the teacher that you're nominating or is that No, Tyler Nichols: That's a different thing. But the Beast of the Month is a peer nominated thing. We have a little trophy, really Hulk, ugly Hulk looking trophy. But just we have to give specific examples of how someone went the X-tra Mile that month. Tyler Nichols: So, that's, Jimmy Lea: so that's the Hulk where he's ripping his shirt and, yeah. Yep. Yeah, I gave that to my mother after she finished her chemotherapy. Tyler Nichols: Oh, that's great. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Again, with that. And then there was a donkey that would kick and it was like a bobblehead. So you could kick the feet and the feet would, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Super awesome. So she's cancer free. Thank heaven's, knock on wood. So are all the rest of us. I think she's like. Five and a half, five years now, five and a half years that she's been clean. So, man, it's love to hear that. Well, congrats on the beast of the month. That's really cool. Tell me about the teacher of the month. Jimmy Lea: So I know I went onto Facebook, I saw your Facebook post, so you got a teacher of the month. Is that a normal rotating thing or is it always a teacher? What are you doing? Tyler Nichols: We do it's monthly nominations by, from just the community. For any teachers, they think just go above and beyond really deserve that recognition. Tyler Nichols: More than the school. Our schools around here do a great job with it anyway, but it's just an extra thing that we can offer them. So it is the community commenting on Facebook posts to nominate these teachers. And Jimmy Lea: I love it. Tyler Nichols: It's great. They get a free oil change with us. Just, you know, something we can offer 'em, we give 'em a coffee gift card. Tyler Nichols: We have a really great coffee shop next door. So kind of, and then just the shout out on Facebook just to let people know who they are, what they do, and help 'em in that way. Jimmy Lea: And if you don't know it, you need to go check out X-tra Mile Auto Care and extra, but just an X-X-T-R-A X-tra Mile auto care on Facebook. Jimmy Lea: These guys are awesome. I love what you're doing for the teachers. And then tell me what's going on with Nate. He graduated onto a different career. Tyler Nichols: He's leaving the industry. He, his last day was on Friday. We're happy for him. We've talked since then. I mean, it's he was with us three and a half years almost. Tyler Nichols: I can't imagine what this company would be without his time here. Right. He was really a blessing to everything that we've done and been able to develop and the dedication he gave us. So it's really great. It super, everyone keeps asking, you know, customers keep asking. It's completely fine. Tyler Nichols: We're happy for him. Happy for his family. Yeah. Everything's in good standing. So, Jimmy Lea: Is he the one that went into law enforcement? Tyler Nichols: No. No. That was Jimmy Lea: different. Tyler Nichols: Different advisor as well. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It was still with you guys though, right? You had no, we had Tyler Nichols: one go to law enforcement. It's been a couple years. Tyler Nichols: Been Jimmy Lea: a couple years, yeah. Tyler Nichols: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats. Congrats to Nate too. That's awesome. I love hearing a success story and a graduation and transition. Moving on to the next chapter, the next phase, right. And speaking of chapters and phases, tell me about the class of 34, your leadership, steelwater, class of 34 that you participated in. Jimmy Lea: What did I do? Tyler Nichols: So it's it's through the chamber here in Stillwater. It's a little organization through that leadership Stillwater. And it's a chance we have 26 people I believe, in our class, and it's a chance for us to get to know the city, get to know the chamber and things that they do get to know a lot of community members. Tyler Nichols: And then we do a big fundraiser for a nonprofit in town. So. It's really great. There's a lot of amazing people in my group that I've had a chance to meet and and learning about the nonprofit world that I, you know, was not really exposed to before. And so through this I get to be on the board of a nonprofit in town. Tyler Nichols: And then we're doing the fundraiser for the the other one. It's a live center here in Stillwater. If anyone local is listening. It's adult Day Services. It's a great place they have there. Adult day services. So any kind of, you know, disability or just, you know, retirees that, that need a, need, a place to, to be for the day and, you know, let their family members continue to work or anything like that. Tyler Nichols: They do some great stuff. We fix their vans, so they do some outings get to go walk around at the lake and stuff like that. So that's, oh dude, it's a really great place. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Congrats. That's really cool. It's really cool to participate in a leadership program, but then also a leadership program that continues that education with being on the board of a nonprofit. Jimmy Lea: Now all of your chamber, all of the things that you're doing publicity wise and PR wise can include the adult daycare. Right. And you can help them out. I mean, that, that is, so that's just awesome, man. Congrats. That's really cool. Tyler Nichols: It's been fun. November 1st. We're doing a big harvest festival. Tyler Nichols: If anyone's seen parks and recreation it's based off of that, but it's gonna be fun. Jimmy Lea: That's rad. That's awesome. That's awesome. So, to the big question, what do you think are three elements, principles, practices, that are keeping a shop back from a $1 million a year business? Tyler Nichols: I think number one for me would be people. Tyler Nichols: Okay. A lesson we learned, it took us a long time to learn. I think having the right people it seemed so obvious, but it's one of those things we didn't know until we had the right people and then we could kind of look back and it was kind of the hindsight at that point. But having the right people that are bought in that, that really care about what we're doing, that care about more than just. Tyler Nichols: Showing up to get a paycheck. They're here for a reason fulfilled in, in multiple different ways. That, that's been really great for us. And just making sure that it's the trust thing of everyone has my back. You know, we really have that camaraderie, the culture, you know, all that all those buzzwords in the, in with that. Tyler Nichols: But that's been one of the biggest things that, that we've done. Jimmy Lea: Okay. People. Number one. Number one, and it's true, you know, people are your biggest asset, and a lot of businesses don't think that way. They think of people as a number a, as just a cog in a machine. Which it's true they are a cog in the machine, but they are a person and we need to treat 'em like people. Jimmy Lea: So, congrats for that. Props to you. All right. What's next? What's number two Tyler Nichols: processes? It's and, you know, processes and procedures, but how we conduct the biggest thing being technician, time management. Institute has an amazing course video course that you can watch for technician time management for anyone listening. Tyler Nichols: But it's treating labor almost like a part, like it's all bulk oil. Jennifer Holbert uses that, that analogy all the time. Would you just open your oil container and let it all spill on the ground? And none of us would, but we let that happen with labor and a lot of times it's not the employee's fault it's. Tyler Nichols: The system's fault. It's, they're not given the tools to be as efficient and as productive as they can be. So, that's been our commitment this year. We've tried really hard at building a really good workflow process and it's paying off. We're set to have the best year we've ever had. Tyler Nichols: So it's, oh, congrats. It's working. So Jimmy Lea: yeah, it was, what is it they say about the tech labor? It's a perishable, it's something that's on the shelf if you don't use it. Right. Every day, whatever's not used is thrown away. It's gone. It's gone. You cannot, and it's, you can't forward it. You can't carry it over and you lose more than you think. Jimmy Lea: Really. How much do you think most shops are losing on a daily, oh my goodness. Two hours Tyler Nichols: Probably. If in an eight hour workday. I mean, it's I guarantee a quarter of the day, whether it's tool trucks. Bathroom breaks, just how long it takes in between vehicles to figure out what am I working on next? Tyler Nichols: Where are the keys? Where is it parked? It all, I spent like two full days in the shop watching and just told everyone what I was doing. I said, do everything the way you normally do it. And just sat there and it's, you see it. You start to see now having someone that can dedicate two days to just watching a shop is a little unrealistic. Tyler Nichols: But we're unique in, in our circumstance that I was able to and it, you know, you fix the things and it ends up paying for itself. But Jimmy Lea: it does. But Tyler Nichols: It was very powerful. Jimmy Lea: That is powerful. And I'm glad you took those two days. In fact, it reminded me, I was just in a conversation with. Jimmy Lea: Seth Thorson at Bimmers, we went to dinner and he was talking about how if you want to create your vision, you need to check out, you need to go off grid. You need to find your zen place where you are relaxed, where inspiration and creativity will flow freely. From there, you'll be able to create your vision and your mission and your ideas for what you want to build your business to be. Jimmy Lea: And to that same tune, you took the two days, you took the time to sharpen the tool so that you were much more effective as a team, as a shop, as an individual. I love that you did that, man. That's super cool. Tyler Nichols: Yeah. Lot, a lot of good came from that. We were able to fix a lot of issues that weren't, you know, it's easy to look at the build hours and think it's the tech's fault, but my biggest takeaways from that time were it's us. Tyler Nichols: It's, you know, shop inefficiencies. It's, you know, things we struggle with our location, with our layout, but a lot of processes that we were able to improve that just fixed a lot of those issues. So. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Now Tyler, I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit. As you think about those process and procedures, so you think about those two days that you were observing the flow of the shop, what is one of the biggest aha moments or one of the. Jimmy Lea: Smallest little movements of the dial movements of the process procedure that had a big return. Not a huge, not a monumental, but it had a good, solid return. For you as a shop, what's one of those things that you observed? Tyler Nichols: I have one, one practical answer to that, and then one that's a little bit kind of bigger thinking and maybe deeper, but, just overall layout. If, when we talk about, you know, the book Atomic Habits and you talk about habit stacking, having everything together to where it's, I do this, and then I do this versus I, I do this and then I have to walk across the shop, and then I do that, and then I walk back across the shop. Tyler Nichols: We have a very long shotgun building here, so walking to the other end. You get grabbed, you get, you know, someone, Hey, you help me with this, or you get distracted. So really just asking what are the things we use and you know, we'll go start to finish on our process with the vehicle. What are the things we use? Tyler Nichols: Where can we place them that it's gonna be the most efficient? And let's just put 'em there. Seat covers, formats. The key box. Let's make sure everything is where we want it to be as a team. Let them decide that. Then and that's just an easy tweak. Doesn't cost any money, it's just moving stuff around. Tyler Nichols: So that's very easy. But the bigger picture one communication, I think probably of just if it had been communicated, man, I have to walk a lot to, to do all stuff like that. But then even just miscommunications between the advisors and the technicians, we all have it. But it creates a lot of inefficiencies that. Tyler Nichols: Just one conversation, a text, an email however you communicate, but really could have solved a lot of our time issues without really having to do a whole lot of effort. So, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Have you ever put a tachometer on some of these advisors or technicians to discover, dude, you're walking five to eight miles a day. Jimmy Lea: Right. Let's cut that down to one, right? And then let's work on cutting it lower than one, because you shouldn't have to be walking a mile a day, right? Yep. Oh, that's good. That's really good. So the process, procedures moving the dial I love that. Probably one of the biggest that I saw at a shop was the placement of the oil filters right here. Jimmy Lea: They had the the quick lube in bay number one, and the oil filters were over here beyond Bay four. So it was all the bulk oil. So that tech was just trekking all the way back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. Became very quick and very easy to say, okay, the quick lube is now Bay four, and the tech saves so much time by not having to walk all the over this, right? Jimmy Lea: So the, and you don't see that until you see that, Tyler Nichols: right? You gotta take the time, you dedicate the time and you know, it's, there's been times I know it's not ideal, but. We have a technician that's gonna take a week vacation and, you know, if I'll step out in the shop and help out and just to keep workflow flowing and just being out there and working. Tyler Nichols: You you see that, you know, different mindset than when I was a technician out there. So I'm seeing things from a different angle. I work out in the shop and. I pick up on those things and kind of ask the guys like, is this, does this seem like it's taken too long? Oh, yeah, it does. You know, so it's really opening up for that communication. Tyler Nichols: I love it to where they start to find that stuff and let me know about it. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. All right. Third Tyler Nichols: item. Third thing related to training, I think. I think we're all guilty of it, but it's really implementing training. I think a lot, especially people listening to this podcast we're all on the onboard for training. Tyler Nichols: We're all, you know, we all, anyone involved at the institute knows how amazing the training is. I think after the training. The implementation the reviewing your notes, the, whether it's technician training, advisor training or owner training. I think it's it's really reviewing everything after the fact to get an action plan in place into, so it's not the next time you go to a similar training and it's like, oh yeah, I learned that last time. Tyler Nichols: I should, you know, should have done that. It's done. It's in place and that's the biggest thing. Even from my technician background, you go to division, which is, you know, anyone in the, around the central US knows about vision, but it's a lot of information crammed into three days and without coming back and reviewing, you're not gonna retain any of it. Tyler Nichols: So, Jimmy Lea: oh, that's so true. And what you're talking about there, Tyler, the vision, high Tech training and Expo is in Overland Park usually the first weekend in March. It's amazing. It's amazing. So that's a short trip for you guys, isn't it? Tyler Nichols: Yeah, it's not far. Jimmy Lea: No. How far of a drive? Three hours. Oh, that's really close. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you guys have no excuses. Everybody has to go. Does the whole shop, do you shut down? Do you bring the whole shop? We have, Tyler Nichols: yeah, we have it. It depends on the year, but we've had, and get an Airbnb it's sometimes more of a just team bonding thing more than it is. Anything. And there's amazing classes, amazing instructors. Tyler Nichols: I've learned, you know, with coming back and reviewing and at least maybe that's how I learned it may not be everybody may, everyone may be able to retain better than I can. But it's a lot of information and whatever the training making sure that it's implemented. You have a plan to use that training. Tyler Nichols: Otherwise, it, it's gone. Jimmy Lea: And they say that and I believe this is true, that the teacher learns more than the student. So I love that you're talking about here, we've gone and done this training, now we're gonna implement the training. Now I'm going to train you on what I was trained, on, what I heard, so that it becomes more of my language and what I'm doing, and then you guys are also going to teach us what you learned. Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. How many times have you had a tech go to a technical training and come back and say, oh my gosh, you know, if I had known this, I could have fixed that car and that car, Tyler Nichols: right? Yep. Yeah, A lot of times, and usually it's, we need to buy this. If we need to buy this, then we need to buy this. Tyler Nichols: But you, if you don't learn about those tools and how to use them, that's, you know, oscilloscopes for one for the technicians out there. But that's once, once you figure it out, it's. It's worth the time you spent learning it, you know, and it saves you so much time in the future. So it's one of the things of we're lucky here. Tyler Nichols: We have L one diagnostics over in, around Tulsa, so very close to us. And they're a very good technical. Keith. Yes. Keith Perkins. Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: He's a rad dude, 80 miles down the road. Oh, speaking of one star reviews, he just barely got himself a one star review too. Oh no. He was so salty about it. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. It's kind of funny. Tyler Nichols: That's, you know, back to the review thing, PE people don't know that how much we take that home with us. It's the advisor too. With the add that one star it. He takes it home and thinks about it and it's. It's not, you know, it's not a light thing for us. Jimmy Lea: No, that's right. Jimmy Lea: I mean, you try not to take it personally. It's all business. Right. Gosh, we pour so much of our heart and soul into everything that we do, that it's hard to not take it personally. Jimmy Lea: And it seems that in the automotive industry, it's either a one star or a five star. Five star, because you did a great job. Jimmy Lea: It's the whisper. Wow. But it's also, yeah. Yeah. These guys are great. Always great. Always number five, you know, five star and then one star. Why? Because they moved my cup holder because they Right. Took away my air freshener because there was a smudge on the hood. Okay. You know what? You're right. We should be better at our QC and making sure there's no smudges on the hood. Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much. We'll change our policy procedure. We appreciate your feedback because now we're gonna be a better shop because of what you said. Here's our number. Bring it in. We wanna make it right. Jimmy Lea: And everything you can do to make it right, that goes so far. Tyler Nichols: Absolutely. Jimmy Lea: It's really good. Jimmy Lea: All right, so your three items for taking a shop from Zero to Hero, from mediocre to magnificent is people, process, procedures, and training. Not just training, but implementing the training. And I, that's a key differentiator there that I want to point out that you said you pro, I don't, you probably did know that you said it, implementing training and Tyler Nichols: with the thought that. Tyler Nichols: The listeners of this podcast, they're invested in training. They're bought into training. They know the value. So if I was talking to a buddy, it would be, you need to train your people. But we're professionals here. You know, the listeners it's, we're all doing the training. Tyler Nichols: It's really just after the training. That is really important. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love, love, love that you guys come back and train each other on what you learned from vision. Are there other trade shows that you guys are going to. Tyler Nichols: Not so much a lot of institute stuff. I mean, like leadership intensive. Tyler Nichols: We, we've had, yeah. Four employees now go to, so almost half of our staff is intended leadership intensive. So it was life changing for me if anyone's on the fence of going this's listening to this, but it's it's totally worth it. Oh, it's I love it. I, yeah, I was immediately, I'd love to do one with my wife. Tyler Nichols: I'd love to do one with, you know, I did it with Aaron. So we got to kind of debrief and everything afterwards. And again, a lot of the talks afterwards. Having kind of an accountability partner coming out of it that, that you did with is great too. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. What do you guys, what kind of vehicles are you mostly working on in your shop? Tyler Nichols: Everything. Jimmy Lea: What makes all models? Do you do heavy duty? Tyler Nichols: Some, we have the local FedEx fleet contract here. So a lot of suzu, NPRs box trucks, things like that. Jimmy Lea: In January, there's a show in Dallas, Texas called HDAW, heavy Duty, a heavy duty all the heavy duty stuff. Okay. So it's like the vision of heavy duty. Jimmy Lea: It's big, it's a big conference. You might wanna check it out in January, Dallas, Texas. Next year in September is Bimmers. I don't know if you do much Euro European work, some. Some boomers they have the top like Keith Perkins was there, and Gary Smith was there. And a bunch of these dudes that are just super, super amazing when it comes to that Euro vehicle. Jimmy Lea: The BM bmw, Mercedes, Audis, Porsches, Lamborghinis they know how the, they're the whisperer and they can teach your technicians how to work on these vehicles and make sure that they're in top form and top. Top notch. Tyler Nichols: Yeah, that's Jimmy Lea: right. So check out Bimmers for next year as well. Bimmers, euro train for you in your area. Jimmy Lea: That's, that would be awesome. Let's see what, I'm trying to think if there's anybody else in the summer. How far is Arizona from you guys? Probably a about Tyler Nichols: a days drive. 24 hours. It's ways. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Well don't go to Arizona in June, then you'll probably melt. It's in Phoenix in June. Oh we consistently see 115 at this conference, a trade show. Jimmy Lea: The good news is we're all indoors, so it's That's good. It can be that hot. Well, cool, man. I'm excited for your coaching, your training and reaching out. I you talk about this year being a record breaking year. Every month after month is a record breaking month. What are you looking at? What's your projections for this year? Tyler Nichols: I think we're gonna get close to 1.8. I think we can hit it. If we would've, we had, you know, our fair share of issues like everybody. So, we're gonna get close and I think next year we'll do too. Jimmy Lea: Nice. 1.8 this year. 2 million next year. Congrats, dude. That's a significant lift. Jimmy Lea: Very cool. Very cool. Well, we're, Tyler Nichols: we have the best team we've ever had, so we're really blessed. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that is good. That is good. Without Tyler Nichols: Nate, now Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you're down to Nate. Now. You without Nate, but are you, how quickly are you gonna be able to replace him? Tyler Nichols: We working on it. We're working on it, but very slow. Tyler Nichols: Just like the expansion we're finding the right person. Going back to the people thing we talked about the first time we talk is not even about sales or if it's a tech. We don't talk about working on cars. It's really what do you do outside of work? What do you do for self-improvement? Tyler Nichols: What motivates you, you know, things like that. So we're we've talked to a lot of amazing people. We're just waiting to make sure we make the right call. Jimmy Lea: That's cool. That's really good. That's exciting. Yeah. You don't wanna put a tech on the team just 'cause he fogs a mirror. You gotta make sure he fits the company culture. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Do you guys do a working day interview? Tyler Nichols: We have we have with both positions. That really depends on the situation. Some, you know, kind of what they have to offer before that. But some, it's a great opportunity if they're not currently working. It works out great. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love it. I love that working interview. 'cause you're gonna pay 'em cash by the end of the day. I'm gonna pay you, I'm gonna pay you cash. Right. So this is a working interview, but I'm gonna pay you, right? Tyler Nichols: Yeah. If you're here helping the team. You're taken care of. Jimmy Lea: So does the team vote or do you vote? Tyler Nichols: It's, we definitely get their opinion. But you know, it's funny you mentioned that, but we've had people in the shop where, and Michael Smith has talked about this a lot in HPG and things, but you get to a point in the culture where when someone is not a culture fit, the team kind of lets you know about it. Tyler Nichols: And they're not coming to me saying, this guy has to go. But you can see it, you can feel it. Yeah, the team just kind of pushes the person out and it becomes very obvious. So it's, wow. It's really great without even having a conversation or a vote it's really understood that this is not fitting with the culture. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. So are you standing in a circle and you give it the gladiator? Thumbs up, thumbs down situation if anybody's thumbs down. Oh, sorry, dude, didn't make the cut. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. All right. Well, Kyle just Kyle Tyler, thank you for talking to me today. Is there anything else you wanted to cover before we wrap things up? Anything we didn't discuss? Tyler Nichols: I'll mention one more thing on the people thing is another kind of phrase that's thrown around is the right person in the right seat. Tyler Nichols: Love it. Our other advisor, Colton, we have up here, he interviewed as a technician and I, he kind of walked outta here and I called Aaron and I was like, I don't think he's a technician. Can we hire an advisor right now? Because he just, he is, and he's an amazing advisor. He caught onto it so quick. Tyler Nichols: He's so good with his customers. So it's, that, that's another thing is just because if you're having issues or something's not working with a certain position, but you like the person, maybe there's something else. That can move into that, would, that would help everybody. Jimmy Lea: Oh, Tyler you are one heck of a dude that, that's a great leader to be able to see the potential in somebody. Jimmy Lea: And it just speaks to your volume of training and leadership to come back to the people. It's about the people. Props to you, bro. That's awesome. All right. Magic wand question. If you had a magic wand and you were able to wave this magic wand and you could. Grant any wish whatsoever, what would you change in the industry? Jimmy Lea: And of course, you can't wish for more wishes. Tyler Nichols: I think, you know, I can't think of another industry. Aaron and I were talking about this yesterday, where if your price is different than anyone else's. If you're ripping 'em off and it's no, you know, it's, there's that stigma that, I don't know what it is about the automotive industry. Tyler Nichols: I don't think plumbers get it. You know, I don't think that concrete guys get it. It's really a thing in this industry and the pricing is its own conversation. But but I think it's probably a lot a source of, a lot of our one stars is comparison and it may not be apples to apples. Tyler Nichols: So we, we don't know that we're comparing the same things. Everybody has their different thought of how something should be fixed. This is what we believe in, this is how we believe in doing it. So, oh yeah, that's, it's a stigma and an issue that I think all of us fight. But it'd be really helpful if we could have that resolved and that communication, you know, properly portrayed. Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. Yeah. It rarely is apples to apples because if you're twice the price. Or twice the, yeah, the price of what's being quoted. Chances are you've done a much more thorough diagnostic look at the vehicle to see all the belts and hoses and brackets that are broken, worn, torn, frayed, rusting. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You, it's not apples to apples. You know, we're gonna keep you safe on the road. They're just gonna replace a part, Tyler Nichols: right? We can fix a problem or we can. Repair the vehicle to align with the goal that they have for their vehicle, with their family. And that's the biggest thing. If they're holding on this vehicle, they're keeping it, they drive soccer practice where wherever they're going, it's, we wanna make sure it's gonna continue to work. Tyler Nichols: So, oh, a hundred percent. That's tough to explain and it's tough to show. I think it, you know, comes with time and good communication, but. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and you guys are doing digital vehicle inspections? Tyler Nichols: We do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, so, Tyler Nichols: and we get the goals for the vehicle up front to just know really where's your head at? Tyler Nichols: What's your plans for the vehicle? Vehicles are not getting any cheaper, so, you know, new vehicles anyway, so, so it's very important. We know. We know what the plan is going into it before we even look at any problems. Jimmy Lea: So That's right. That's right. So then you address what the customer brought it in for, but then you also address, here are the other items that are safety issues. Jimmy Lea: Boom boom. Right? Policy, procedure, pictures on everything. Right. Everything you're making a recommendation for, because clients can see, they know worn, torn freight or broken, and if you show it to 'em, they make a better decision because they're more educated. Rather than a laundry list of you gotta fix this and this, and they're just thinking, dude, Tyler I drove it in. Jimmy Lea: I'm gonna drive it out. Right? Just do the oil service. But then you show 'em, here's your shocks. They are totally blown. That's why you're bouncing down the road. And then further into the explanation, your traction is not very good either. You're gonna take a corner and it's not gonna be a good thing. Tyler Nichols: Right. Oh, that's good. That's very important. That's back to the processes and procedures of good, a good presentation process on the 300% rule. And back to all that. But that's so important and the presentation alone of that is, can make or break, can give you a one star or a five star just on presentation. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So true. So true. With that. Tyler, thank you so much, brother. I appreciate you taking some time out and yeah, talking to me. Thanks for having me. Talking to the industry, talking to your shop, talking to your people. You're a great leader and they're lucky to have you there. I wish. Jimmy Lea: All the best for you in your future, brother. Thank you. Tyler Nichols: Thank you so much for talking with me.

157 - Five Real-World Challenges Every Shop Owner Is Facing (and How Billy D. Tackles Them) October 16, 2025 - 00:38:22   Show Summary: From sweeping shop floors at ten to running a dealership and repair operation, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli shares how Pristine Auto Group balances retail service, used-car sales, and in-house reconditioning. He explains the technology behind his shop setup, including Autel ADAS systems and multiple scanners, and how space, tooling, and software updates shape modern repair costs. Hiring remains his toughest challenge, with big-box chains driving wage inflation, so Billy focuses on loyalty, training, and building career paths. He highlights the importance of customer education, from DVIs to explaining diagnostic time and warranty coverage. Billy also stresses networking with other shop owners to share resources and strengthen the industry. Looking ahead, he plans to develop in-house training and structured SOPs to expand into small, efficient satellite shops that maintain high standards of service and culture.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli, Owner of Pristine Service Center   Show Highlights: [00:00:47] - Billy’s roots: growing up in his dad’s shop, wrenching by 13, and building a career that now blends dealership and retail service. [00:03:39] - Current footprint: three techs, four lifts, Autel alignment/ADAS, and a 6,000-sq-ft warehouse next to the dealership. [00:06:34] - Volume snapshot: ~40 vehicle sales/month and 45–50 first-service visits for dealership cars, feeding the service pipeline. [00:08:42] - Hiring reality check: market distortion from chain-store wages and the gap between “paper” skills and real problem-solving. [00:10:50] - Career ladders: moving C-techs to B level through in-house training, complex work (e.g., Range Rover engine rebuilds), and clear benchmarks. [00:13:24] - Training culture: leveraging TechNet/parts-house courses and sending techs to regional events as performance rewards. [00:16:58] - OEM access barriers: programming, parts info, and right-to-repair friction that force small shops into costly workarounds. [00:21:39] - Lease pressure: commercial rent volatility and why ownership/options matter for small operators. [00:22:51] - Customer education: pricing diagnostics time, DVIs, oil-change intervals, and explaining extended-warranty limitations up front. [00:33:14] - Vision: codify SOPs, build an in-house training bench, and expand with small, process-driven satellite shops.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friend Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Billy and he is with representing the Pristine Auto Group, auto Group Y, because it's more than just auto repair. He also has a dealership, a small dealership out front as well. Jimmy Lea: So Billy, thank you very much for joining me today. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Thank you for having me. Jimmy Lea: Billy. I'm, I'm so excited every time I do. A podcast, I'd like to do a little bit of research to find out a little bit more about who I'm gonna be speaking with. And I was super interested to find out about your shop because it looks like you're fairly new. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. But in conversations with you, you're not that new. Tell me what, what's the history here, Billy? So I've been Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: in this business, uh, since with my dad since I was 10. I'm pretty old now. Yeah, that's sweeping the floors. Taking out the tray. Yeah. Crushing the oil filters. Okay, carry on. So, um, I've been in the automotive industry since 18. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm 47, so over 20 years. Um, I, we had a, a service shop. Just a service shop. Then we increased it to a dealership with the service shop, and we went more directions of servicing our dealer vehicles and dealer customers rather than, uh, retail. And in the past year, I've been attacking the retail up more and it's almost separating the two businesses. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But we've been in this business for over 30 years. We have all the equipment, all the all top, all the scanners you could think of, top of the line, eight dos programmers, um, but obviously they're costly. Jimmy Lea: So you're doing all makes and all models, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: all makes Jimmy Lea: all models. So all Euro, all Asian, all. Uh, domestic. Jimmy Lea: You're, you're working all those vehicles?  Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. We go from rebuilding engines to even Range Rover, to regular Toyotas. Jimmy Lea:  Oh my goodness sakes. That that is one heck of a wide swath. You've probably got $300,000 in scanners on the shelf. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yes. I spend a lot of money updating them every year. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: All that too. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh my gosh. 10 years old. You started the business. Did you start, when did you start? Did you start on the, uh, uh, sales side of automotive or on the service side of automotive service side. Okay. When did you start turning a wrench and changing oil, changing Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: pads, rotors, I wanna say by the time I was 13 I was under a car doing oil changes for, for chips for lunch. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah, you wanna coke with that, change you away. Yeah, exactly. Um, I had no summers. I was, my dad would be disciplined to take me to work every summer, every day, you know, thank dad. If I'm not doing anything, I'm sitting. But, you know, good dad Jimmy Lea: that, that work ethic. Priceless. Thank you dad. That's the key. You can't find that these days. Jimmy Lea: No, you really can't. Oh man, I'm so, that's just amazing. Alright, so your technical background. I'm hearing a lot of school of hard knocks. It sounds like Pops threw you in the shop and said, go. Is there any technical training? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So I went to, I went to a bunch of courses obviously that our parts was, everything does. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I went to, I got my bachelor's in business, four year Bachelor's. Uh, I did that during the process. Um, and I've, I've had a couple of shops in process in between before I settled into this. Um, but all, all based with same people, not changing companies, not changing stuff like that. Jimmy Lea: Oh man, congrats. Yeah. That, that, awesome. Jimmy Lea: And, and you're Service Bay now you're servicing retail and servicing the dealership? Yes. Your own dealership? Our own dealership, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: yes. Jimmy Lea: Anybody else? Okay, so. How long have you been on the retail side of servicing? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: On the retail side, I wanna say for the past seven years I've been mainly on the retail side. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. On the servicing, not really turning too much wrenches myself. Um, it's, it's hard because Jimmy Lea: you're up front now, you're now the surgeon Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: upfront. Everyone wants to speak to me, so how am I diagnosing when I'm speaking or explaining certain tech, uh, technical stuff? You know, it's not like a dealership. We have 15 people doing one job, Jimmy Lea: right? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, this is a small operation. How many, so you have three techs, right? Mm-hmm. Three techs. How many bays? Uh, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm a warehouse that fits about 20 cars inside. Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay. Yeah. How many lifts do you have? Any side then? I Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: have four lifts. Four lifts, uh, plenty of space. Do you have an alignment rack too? We have an alignment, alltel alignment rack that does the ADOS program and everything. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. Um, so we, you know, uh, I, I was in a different location a year ago. I have like seven lifts, but I moved to right next to my dealership, back to next to my dealership, same size warehouse, which, you know, we're in the process of transition. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Congratulations. That's awesome. Thank you. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So are you Jimmy Lea: gonna add more lifts in the, so Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I, I think the top lifts I'll have is about five lifts. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. Okay. Um, just because these days you need space for these ados programmers, all these scanners. You, and once you throw these lifts, you can't move. Jimmy Lea: No, that's right. That's right. Once they're up, they're up. Oh, man, that, that's so exciting. Yeah. That's a bright future. And taking a warehouse, converting it into an automotive repair shop. Jimmy Lea: That, that's some props to you, that that's a heavy lift, man. Yeah, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: and, and, and it's, and it's about 6,000 square foot and it's on a main street. That was where I was lucky, right next to my dealership. And this was my, uh, this was my second shot that I got into doing my service. Before I got into the dealership side and um, and then eventually I saw the dealership side. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So I merged it and I shrunk down my service, which was a mistake while back. 'cause I lost a couple customers because I concentrated on the dealer, but my dealer grew. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it was a Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: give and take, you know? Right, right, right. But um, through that, through all that hard time COVID happened, all that stuff, you know, and we still survived. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That's the, that's the plus. Oh yeah. That is, lot of places are not surviving. Jimmy Lea: Brother. That's awesome. Congrats. Thank you. That is so cool. Uh, what, what a challenge. How many, uh, cars do you have on the lot that are for sale right now? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: For sale? I have about Jimmy Lea: 55. Dude, you got a big lot. Mm-hmm. That's, that's awesome. Jimmy Lea: My, uh, uncle had a lot in Vegas and he was maybe 15 to 20, 22 would tap it out. He couldn't do any more than 22, so he really wasn't turning a lot of cars, but it was one of those buy here, pay here. I type a lot, so I, yeah, we Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: do about 40. We sales wise, 40 cars a month and then we service for the dealership about 45, 50 cars. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That's just first time service. And then obviously customers bring back their cars as well. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Do you have a program that incentivizes the buyer to bring it back to you? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, so. We, since we offer a lot of, uh, extended warranties with our vehicles, yeah. Local customers are not comfortable going other places because they don't know how to use a warranty. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They feel, so they come to us naturally. Um, I, we do get free oil changes when you buy a vehicle. We have a detail shop in-house, which is attached to my service shop. Which is a good bonus that you can give someone. You do an engine, you get a free wash, you know? Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that, that's the Pristine Auto Spa. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah, it's actually, it's called Pristine Auto Spa. Yeah, Jimmy Lea: I know. I did Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: some research. I know who you're, yep, yep. We like to do everything in house where, you know, and we have a lot of networking, so I have a lot of friends of mine that are, uh, total precision, that does a high-end vehicles Mercedes rain draw. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Anything that if I've been a jam, they have the programs I, I'll just, we work together. That's the key. Networking, Jimmy Lea: networking, uh, and, and locking arms with others in the industry. That, that's the mantra here at the institute is building a better business. This is you, helps you provide a better life for you, your employees, your, the technicians, the their families even, and a better life even for your customers and clients, which are in our, our final is better industry. Jimmy Lea: So if we can help you build a better business, you have a better life at built a better industry for everybody. And we all lock arms together just like you're doing here. Right. That networking is critical. All right. Let's jump into, uh, some of the critical things that are facing shops today. What are the, the top five areas that you think a shop really needs to be aware of, whether they're long in the tooth or trying to start a shop up tomorrow, or maybe it's only been a year. Jimmy Lea: What do you, what do you see as some of those challenges? For shops today, e Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: employment is the most challenging that everyone has because, you know, everyone knows how to turn a wrench, but I hate to say it, it's not old school. So turning a wrench doesn't cut it. But when you are interviewing someone, they know how to do everything until you hire them. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. And um, the problem that I've been seeing is, you know, you got these companies like, especially in Jersey, Mavis, pep Boys. Yes. They're paying their oil change people 25, $30 an hour. They only know how to do oil changes, so how am I gonna hire a top technician for affordable technician when they're paying so high for people just to do oil changes? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know? So it it, it makes it difficult for us to hire a good, affordable technician to grow with us, you know? Yeah. I, so you're getting a lot of turnovers, or they work for a mile. We need more pay because my friend works at Mavis and getting paid this, and he does half the jobs. You know, um, but they don't get the knowledge. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I've hired people from there. When the tire gets stuck, won't come off the wheel. They don't even know how to take it off. Oh my God. You know, they're, they're, we, we, we torch things. We do things to get things done. These big corporations can't do it, and these guys are losing that experience, spending time there for the next five years, you know, you're not gaining any real life experience how to solve problems. Jimmy Lea: I heard of a technician, graduated, um, uh, had all the, the certifications that he was a, by all stretch in the imagination, a master certified technician, but uh, just outta school, he really didn't have the chops to be able to do things. And he was in one of these big boxes, still sweeping the floors and doing oil service. Jimmy Lea: And someone like you came in and said, Hey, I've got an opportunity. Let me know what you think. Well, I'm graduating in a couple months and they've really promised me the moon here. Three months after and they hadn't delivered. He called and, uh, he has been with that shop ever since and they absolutely love him and he does a phenomenal, phenomenal work. Jimmy Lea: You are probably gonna find somebody like that that wants to do more than just an oil change or a break job. And because you're not working weekends, which these guys were required, you're gonna be an automatic magnet for these people. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. I mean, that's the, uh, that's the goal. Um, and I do have a couple of workers that are very loyal. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. You know, they, they, they came to me, you know, they knew how to do everything, but they never worked on a Range Rover or Timing J Job. Right. But we, we taught 'em that in house, obviously, as doing it. Do you learn now they've rebuilt, they rebuilt engines on a Range Rover. That Range Rover doesn't even rebuild. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Range Rover, you have to buy the whole block. They don't, they don't sell parts for it. Well, we know how to rebuild it in house. Congrats, obviously, you know, that makes our costs go down and we could give the service to customers that buy these Range Rovers. They're stuck with it because to change an engine is $20,000. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: The car was 10,000. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, they, the Range Rover, it's a plug and play. Mm-hmm. Engine doesn't work. Take it out and put in a new one. Mm-hmm. You're like, no, no, no. We can fix this old one. We got this. Exactly. So I agree with you, the quality of employees and, and there's a, there is a technician shortage in the industry and it might be a, a situation here, Billy, you might look at your business model and say, Hey, you know what, if I raise my door rate by 10 bucks, 15 bucks an hour. Jimmy Lea: Maybe I take half of that and give it to the technicians. Maybe something to think Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: about. Yeah. That, that is, that is something to think about. Um, like I said, it's mainly the qualification. I don't mind paying someone if they can do what I can do. Jimmy Lea: Yep. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But if I still gotta hold their hands, why am I paying you that much money? Jimmy Lea: Well, that's a ctech. C technician, not a B technician. And, and definitely an A technician is somebody who can have the car, take the car, diagnose it, replace it, fix it, and it's ready to roll you, don't you, you qc it just to CYA cover your Yeah, yeah. Right. Uh, those C techs, man, you gotta verify everything. Jimmy Lea: And you're like, bro, I got a job up front. I gotta do you, you need to be able to take care of this business. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: Exactly. Get 'em into a B. So do you provide your technicians with a, uh, path of training? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So, um, I give them all the opportunities. Like, for example, I'm part of TechNet, um, I was part of Poncho program. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm in, uh, I just signed up with, uh, AutoZone has their program. Uh, I forget what it is. They're sending me pamphlet. They all sell, send train your, your CLA guys to trainings and stuff. I give that all to my guys for free. They can get take, they can take, they, they can get out, get out a little early to go do it if they want, you know, or they can do it at most time. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Nice. I do give them that, you know, sometimes they don't take the advantage of it, but I do give that, Jimmy Lea: there's a show, a trade show, it's in Philadelphia, so I know it's a little drive from you. Uh, it's called Super Saturday. Technical training. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. What is it called? Jimmy Lea: Uh, it's called Super Saturday. Super Saturday. Jimmy Lea: It's put on by the Mid-Atlantic Auto Care Association. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I gotta, I gotta look into that. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, I do. Uh, how far is Philly? Is it a drive from you? It's about an hour from us. It's not too crazy, bro. That's so close. You gotta get, bring all your techs shut down the shop for those couple of days. It's, uh, like November 13th, 1415. Jimmy Lea: You, you'd want to be there. Yeah. Your technicians would thank you for it. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: What I usually would do is I would take one with myself, and the next year I would see who gets to go next year. So this way we have a, you know, something to fight for. Jimmy Lea: Bro. I love that. Yeah. Now it's a, a, uh, if you work performer comes, well, so yeah, you can do one of two things. Jimmy Lea: You can either bring the guy that or the girl that performs the best, or you put a benchmark that says, anybody that performs over this level mm-hmm. Gets to go to super Saturn. And mine would Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: be, I mean, performing the best in their level. So you're not gonna compare ATech to a ctech, you know, if he improved from last year to this year, he gets go. Jimmy Lea: Bingo. Ooh, there's another one too. It's called Tools, T-O-O-L-S. It's in April. April 29th to May 2nd in somewhere in pa. Also put on by the Mid-Atlantic Auto Care Association. Definitely look into that one as well. That one's a bit larger. Whereas Super Saturday is a bit more intimate, uh, uh, tools is, is a little bit bigger and it's growing. Jimmy Lea: They're doing a really good job getting this going. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I would appreciate if you shoot me the Jimmy Lea: email on some of this stuff. Oh, absolutely brother. I'll send it to you for sure. Alright. Quality employees. I, I agree with you. Technicians, uh, that's the bane of this, uh, existence because mm-hmm. Because their time is perishable. Jimmy Lea: It goes on a shelf. You gotta book it today where it's gone. How efficient are your technicians? Uh, well that's a question for you, Billy. How do you, do you track your technicians? Do you know where they're performing? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, I, I, I do track their per job. Um, they obviously, my, my shop manager, even though I paid them, I don't pay them per job, like dealer. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: It shows what jobs they did for the week. So, you know, obviously if I built someone, uh, 800 hours this month, this week, and my workers got all of it done, that means they're performing well. They're, they're doing, you know, their time. But, uh. The fact that we do, a lot of my dealership used car dealership sides. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: It's hard to gauge it because a simple car comes with something simple and all of a sudden taking these screws down and stuff is hard because it's someone else's problem. We're fixing not a customer, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously the dealer doesn't have deep pockets to do everything at any cost whatsoever. Jimmy Lea: Right? Oh, so true. Basic, they gotta turn a Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: wrench and make a profit. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So a technician, each technician has 40 hours a week and. How are they performing? Are they, they're, uh, my tech 50. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They, they do over 40. The jobs that they do, they do over 40, so they're off perform well. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's, that's awesome. That is a beautiful situation for any automotive repair business. Jimmy Lea: So congrats to you, Billy. What, what would you say is the second challenge? That you think, uh, small shops or, or even shops face today? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: E every shops, I, I think what they're facing is this technology and these dealerships being in our way, like the, the franchisees being in our way. So we, we no longer could service every car. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Like I may have the tools, but a lot of small shops aren't gonna have these tools and for them to even build up to that, it costs a lot of money. Right? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: these new dealerships, we can't even get part numbers from these new dealers anymore because they don't wanna give it out. When we do warranty jobs, they want the part number of what part we're gonna put in before they approve the claim. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So even when we're ordering, unless I'm ordering the part, I just want an estimate. They won't gimme the part numbers these days that they know I'm gonna shop around maybe for Yeah. Uh, so that puts a difficulty on small businesses, uh, businesses like us because that's what we depend on so we can do our job. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Without getting access to dealer proprietary things like programming. We don't know what car needs, what, what programming you could be doing a RA swapping out a radio for a car and all of a sudden Chrysler says it could only be programmed by us. Yeah. So I got the job I got, so the car starts to go to, uh, Chrysler. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Now the customer's like, why don't not just go to them to do it in the first place? Jimmy Lea: Hmm. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know, so, and these accesses, one, they don't allow like, access to us. And even if they do, it's expensive. So, you know, we, we have patch through tools, you know, we call them, they program for us. You have to call and find out if they can program that part in that pro module because they don't have access to it as well. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So who has access to them except the deal. Yeah, I think that's monopolizing something, you know, more than, you know, GI giving us a chance to do all these jobs that they don't wanna do. Technically, all the cover. Jimmy Lea: No. That's right. That's right. Yeah. It is a challenge to be all makes and all models. Have you ever thought of perhaps specializing or niching into Euros or Asians or domestics? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, Jimmy Lea: and it would affect your dealership side too, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: a hundred percent. So I thought of that a while back. Instead of doing that, like I told you, I partnered up with, you know, other teams that do that kind of cause that I can't have access. At least I have hand reach out for, which I recommend every. Small shops is network with their other shops around them instead of being competitors, building it together. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: 'cause there's plenty of jobs out there, you know? Yeah. Like there's no way that everyone could do everything. We don't have the tools, we don't have the pockets for it, you know, and we don't have the customers that come every day. So if I don't work on BMWs, all of 'em, what's it hurt to send it to a friend of mine that works on BMWs and we're still getting good, good reputation and you know, vice versa. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Yeah, that's good. You send it to dealers, building friends together, having locking arms together, that that's, that's paramount. I agree. Alright. What, what would you say is a third. Challenge for small business today. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, cost of operation with no control. And what I mean by no control is, for example, we do leases for our buildings five years at a clip because we're not a huge franchise. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Sure. After five years, my landlord technically can jack my, because he sees my businesses really well, double my hands. I either move, which I just built my business in here, right? Or I gotta take the hit. Um, where when you work a franchise deal, they're doing 20 years leases. Five years before the lease is up, they start negotiating. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If it's not working, they have five years to make their move. You know, where us, we just settled in. We just got the business established. Now my landlord's being greedy, there should be a little cap on. You know, you can't just, just like rent, rent, rent, uh, home, home rental. You can't just increase. Yeah, same thing with commercial. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You shouldn't be able to just increase the whatever you want. You know? You should cap, because I technically spent all this money building this business. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. You built the business, the reputation, you did all the upgrades and all the maintenance and upkeep of the property. And I gotta move because my landlord's greedy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So do you own your property or do you Um, one of 'em is Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: under contract. The other one's leased. Okay. So hopefully soon. Jimmy Lea: Hopefully soon. Yeah, hopefully soon. But you know, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: these days. Some, someone, some news comes down, everything changes. Jimmy Lea: It's true. Yeah, it's true. It can change at, at a moment's notice. Oh yeah. Jimmy Lea: A lot of the leases that I've seen shops get into would be, uh, a five year lease and two to three, uh, additional five year options to renew. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: We, we have that. Um, but these new landlords with every, but after COVID, these prices jumped up. So high landlords do not. Commercial landlords don't wanna lock themselves in because what if we get another boom? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Now they're stuck with me for another 10 years. Oh, 15 or 2015. Yeah. And I'm not a franchise company where they know that this is steady for the rest of their life. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If I go out, what are they gonna come after when, you know, Mavis or something like that. They can't just go out and walk away from a property, they gotta walk away from the whole business. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah. True, true. Interesting. Okay. Cost protection for operations. I like that. Uh, what, what would you say is a fourth area that shops should look at? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Uh, the shops having a problem with customers understanding repairs on their vehicle. Um, okay, so these cars are much more technology than it used to be. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know, back in the day, my dad, I remember could listen to a car and tell me, Hey, that's a valve. Now you could have an alternator issue causing a valve move. So if you. You need to diagnose this and it takes time. So, you know, time is money. So when you deliver a card to us, customer's still expecting, okay, you know what, they're gonna charge me small diagnostic and fix the problem. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But I spent a half a day diagnosing just a wire issue. How do I charge that customer a hundred dollars to fix the wire? You Jimmy Lea: know? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Uh, it's Jimmy Lea: $400. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. So it is half a day. It took half a day. You gotta get it approved upfront. Yeah. 400 plus then, then you got the diagnostic, you got the parts, anything you have to get. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And then you know, these customers. Don't understand. Well, you told me it's a code, you told me it's an oxygen sensor. Well, it could be. But you have a catalog come, you have other things that are tied. This is the first thing you have to change, right? Yeah. With us, they don't understand it. Dealerships, they give avail. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They have no choice. They do it, you know? Yeah. And the dealers know everything. Yeah. So it's a, it's a customer's, uh, educating the customs is a problem. You have to educate your customers before you start a job. Any Jimmy Lea: job. Ah, I like that. What are you using to help educate your customers? Are you doing digital vehicle inspections? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I have. I have digital vehicle inspection. I have a TechNet performs a i I have a loop in my waiting room that shows what importance of timing belts are. Timing jeans are importance of break jobs, importance of regular maintenance. Right. Love it. A lot of customers, you know, these days all cars want 10,000 mile oil changes. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Well, you have a lot of timing chain issues these days. Why do you think. 10,000 Jimmy Lea: miles. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yes. So what if you did your oil change? Every 5,000, you won't have as many issues. Oh yeah. So educating the customers to that is very important. And while you're doing it, five instead of 10, you know, obviously you still gotta leave it up to them. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: 'cause the, that's what the car requires every 10. But I, I explained to them, you're gonna keep this car long term. This is what you have to do to maintain it. Otherwise you'll never be able to put it back together. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, I totally agree. My Ford F-150, I treated it like a Honda. 5,000 miles full synthetic, 225,000 miles on it. Jimmy Lea: I sold it and I shouldn't have, I should have kept it. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm telling you, some of these older ones are much better than these newer ones. Jimmy Lea: 2012 Ford F-150 V eight had the good transit. My Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: dad does nothing but put premium on any car he drives. Jimmy Lea: Right. I Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: agree. I agree too. If you don't have a heavy foot, you're saving Jimmy Lea: money on miles. Jimmy Lea: Amen. Amen. Yeah. Cost repairs. Uh, so customer, it's, it's all about the customer's understanding. They need to understand. What it is that you're talking about. And, and you, you come onto their side of the conversation. So they're, they're looking at the car saying, oh, it's the car's fault. It's not your fault anymore. Jimmy Lea: It's the car's fault. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. So, so that's what that, so I pretty much direct them into understanding, you know, you, you, you, you, you buy something, you gotta maintain something. If you wanna keep it long term, if you're leasing something, I mean, it's up to you. But what if you get stuck with the car and you don't maintain it? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know now, now you have the junk and the dealer still gets his money, you know? Yep. So at the end of the day, you wanna drive something. Spending a little extra now saves you a lot more at the long run. Right. Um, and these key customers get, you know, they get these extended warranty service contracts. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Understand how they work. They come to us thinking it's bumper to bumper coverage, and then now once I give 'em a bill for additional bill, they're like, why is this? You have to educate them prior to the job because if you don't. At the end of the job, they're gonna get upset even though you did a great job because they didn't understand that they had to pay out of pocket and why they're paying out of pocket. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And it's not your fault, it's the service contract that they bought. Yeah. And a lot of people blame the service contract, know the service contract, know how to explain their service contract to the customer, and explaining what can go wrong during the process that they might be responsible for a bill. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And it's not your fault. Jimmy Lea: No. No. It's not your fault. Oh. That's what I Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: mean by customers understanding repairs. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Because you didn't build it, break it or buy it. Exactly. Customers, they're the ones that gotta work with. Exactly. You know, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: they, they buy the car, they don't maintain it. They think we're magicians. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Like you got a magic wand, you can just fix everything. All the smog has gone out of the car. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Good luck. Alright. What, what would be a, a fifth challenge you see that's facing a lot of shops these days. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, like, uh, it's, it's always gonna be mainly expenses. Like everything's, equipment's getting expensive and you need these, back in the day, you didn't need as many equipments to do the same job. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Now you need five equipments to do the same job on three different cars, you know? Um, so it's not as standard as vehicles as they used to be. Yeah, so all this is hard for someone starting a new business. What tools do I buy? What's the important tools? You know, back in the day one scanner range tool, you could do almost anything. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah, almost, almost now. Almost anything. Now you need two, two tools to want to scan your car and want to scan your tire sensors and program 'em, you know? And these are regular maintenances. Yes. So what if you don't have, what if you don't have those two tools? If you do, you gotta update them. You know, spending $1,600 a a year, it's not much. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But a small shop, it might be, Jimmy Lea: you know, it adds up quick too, Billy. It adds up really fast. 'cause that's just one of the scanners you have. And how many scanners do you have? I have five. Scanners and I, I have it and say it's 2000 per year. It is 10 grand. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Mm-hmm. And then, and then I also have a patch through that, uh, that allows me to go through Snap-on to be able to program other vehicles. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That alone was 10 grand for the computer. Yep. And, and I really, it's pretty much a screen that connects someone else to another for 10 grand. I mean, I could have done that with my laptop, Jimmy Lea: right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But these are expensive stuff for any shop. And an established shop might be able to build it into their, uh, portfolio slowly, you know, as, because they got customers coming already, a, a mom and pop that has a two big garage. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: He's gotta be very, like you said, pick either A, a, a a a. A model to work on, specialize in something. Mm-hmm. And, and find out what those, that those vehicles need minimum to be able to specialize in them. You know, you still need minimum computers, minimum, uh, you know, maybe not five different computers, but two, you know, you need certain and, um, sort of some space to program these. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Like if you're doing ADOS programming, forget it, you know, and I believe they charge here, each sensor's about $350 per program. So in a vehicle, there's maybe two sensors, three sensors, you know, so you're talking about just the program was like $900 and same at dealers, you know. Oh yeah. It's not even, uh, it's very expensive. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And, and I didn't realize why until, you know, since I was able to buy the equipment, realized, oh wow, I need a lot of space. Yeah. So you dedicate a lot of space for these programming. So how can you not, how can you charge minimum when you're taking up so much space? Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, yeah. I was just talking to, um, Matt from Long Meadow Garage. Jimmy Lea: Uh, he is a small two bay garage, three technicians. He's doing about 1.6 million a year, and he's working in that niche market of Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Bentley. And all those scan tools, they are not cheap, they're expensive and he has to maintain 'em all as well. He does do all makes and all models, so he'll do all the domestic and the foreign, yeah, the import. Jimmy Lea: Uh, but he does specialize in this higher level of, of, of car, which is interesting because it's a two bay gas station. Mm-hmm. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I mean, I have a friend of, my cousin of mine actually has Zach's garage, same thing, two Bay garage. He stopped doing all big jobs. Because he, he was able to build enough that he, he's good on, you know, niche job breaks. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Uh, tune up, stuff like that. But he has enough customers coming in. But I remember when he started, he was on the Yes. He was rebuilding engine that shouldn't be rebuilt, you know, but you, you need to, you need to start from there and then get that experience and then get the customer to follow you that then you can choose some jobs that you don't want to touch because it's not profitable in the long run, you know? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. To what you're expending. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. What, uh, point of sale system are you running? Uh, I use uh, VIP shop Manager. Okay. Um, and DVI do they have a DVI that works, integrates in with it, or what do you do? Uh, I, what do you mean, sorry? Uh, digital vehicle inspection. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So, so my, my hotel does, my hotel connects to my, um. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: To my computer. Okay. Not recorded. As we do it, it, it sends it right over there and then it gets the, you can get the images of anything and goes into my invoicing through photo I shop, um, a, a photo of something. It says like, uh, okay. And it just, everything goes right to it. But they do, I like, I, I'll put a for VF shop manager 'cause I've tried 'em all. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I've had all data as shop manager, they're so difficult to use. Especially if you wanna cancel a, a, a statement of go. I had to jump through hoops like I'm an accountant. Right. So, so the vi shop manager, the person that built it was a me mechanic himself. He's a tech, uh, and he built it to what mechanics need in their invoicing, and he's been building upon that himself. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And now he's got, it's now it's a real good system. Yeah, for sure. Not cloud based. It was actually, now it's cloud based and it's, I'm, I'm, oh, Jimmy Lea: that's awesome. Orders for you and everything. I've heard of another shop in Sacramento that's also using VIP. Mm-hmm. So it is a newer software on the industry. It's very cost efficient. Jimmy Lea: You've been with him a while. That probably means you were one of the Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: beta groups. I was, I, I think I was just out of the beta group. He had just started selling it out to people. Okay. Me and Mark communicate all the time and I'll give him, and he is very nice. I, I'll give him, Hey, you should add this. Put this there. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Calendar should be changed. And next month it's changed. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Mm-hmm. It's really, that's awesome. When you have that sort of a, a relationship with you, one of your service providers mm-hmm. One of your products, your programs, one of your systems that helps you to run your business, not only are you able to pick up the phone and talk to them, they're listening and they're responsive and they're implementing. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That's, that's the, that's another key that I think, you know, everyone should do. Like, if you're dealing with a certain company, get to know them. You know, I get to communicate with them because you might be not using their system to the best of analogy. You're thinking it's not as good quality, but it is, you know, um, I, how to use it. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I like to build a relationship with my sales, my sales reps, my part guys, my delivery guys even, because guess what? Sometimes they do me a favor. Why they do have it, because I don't forget the little guy, you know? Yeah. You know? Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Yeah. I, I've heard it said that we are in the relationship business. Jimmy Lea: We just happen to fix cars. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Exactly. You know, and listen, you know how many times customers come to me, we've done a tire in the back, and they're telling me, well, there's noise in the phone. What did you do? You know, you have to, you have to have that relationship, be able to explain it and have the patience to do it. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. And, and the relationship sometimes solves everything. You know, sometimes mess up, sometimes customer doesn't understand. But when you have that relationship. You can, you, you're not speaking at a 10. You're always calm and you're able to solve problems and it's easier to help a customer that understands you than it is someone that's coming backwards. Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, I love it. I love it. So what does the future look like for you, Billy? What, what's the next 5, 10, 15 years? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So if all goes well, I was actually looking to, um, merge with, uh, prestige. Like I told, told you before about where we can actually train in-house our own workers. And start, you know, locating into maybe other smaller shops that we have. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: We, when we grow out of it, where, you know, everything's done in-house or we train our own guys, we train on the cars that we're working on and we place them into our, our little, uh, service, small service shops, nothing big in local spots, which again, two big garage can pull in a lot of money if you have the right technicians. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If you have the right tools. So if you have a company behind you, sporting you like a big chop, but trading your guys to the service that we really see out there, Jimmy Lea: it's true. It's true. So the future for you is expanding the kingdom. You're looking for some additional footprints Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: mm-hmm. Jimmy Lea: In the kingdom. I, I think that's phenomenal. Jimmy Lea: That's, and, and Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: already to do that, you need to be able to partner up with the right people. Mark. Mark is very good technician. He's a very good teacher. So he'd be great in that teaching at department, working in my shop here while he's teaching everyone instead of turning the wrenches, you know? Jimmy Lea: I love it. Jimmy Lea: I love it. That's very good. Yeah. And, and as you do that, as you get ready to do that, make sure your process and procedures are right and they're in order. Your handbook is up to date and in order. 'cause that's that process procedure that you want every single other location to follow. Because it's a proven method. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Exactly. So that's, that's the way that I, I built my dealership as well. And if it's wor, if something's working, just improve it. Don't change it, you know? Oh, I love it. Don't try Jimmy Lea: stuff. Best point number six. Yes, it is. Know what your process of procedures are and document 'em. 'cause if it's not written down, it doesn't exist. Jimmy Lea: It doesn't exist. Oh, that's awesome, man. Very cool. Well, if you were to have a, uh, a magic wand. And you were to wave this magic wand, you can't wish for more wishes, but you can change one thing in the industry. What would you change, Billy? Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Hmm. One thing would be, would be to be able to get, uh, information better, easier, like, you know, information, because that's what solves the problem. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If I can't get my diagnostic information from the dealer of manufacturers, I'm, it's costing me more time to try to figure it out. If you look at all talent and stuff, that's how they've solved the programming problem. They do the Chinese programming in, in the system, and it overrides the original manufacturer, but it's the same. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They decode it. Well, why are we going through all these hoops when the manufacturer can make it a little easier on us, you know, and, and allow access for more cost efficient. But we don't have to go to hotel, you know, we'll have them do stuff like this. Jimmy Lea: It's always gonna be found, but that's Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: my magic. Jimmy Lea: W have, have magic wand. Jimmy Lea: Access to data, access to data information. I don't mean for free, but affordable for every. Yeah. And, and you know, when you get out to some of these trade shows that we were talking about earlier, uh, these conferences and trade shows and these associations, these are the people that you wanna surround yourself with because they are going after the Right to repair act. Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. They are supporting Right to repair, they are actively going after Congress to make sure that the manufacturers do share this type of data and information. You are going to absolutely love being part of Super Saturday Tools, Mid-Atlantic Auto Care. You are gonna love this. So yeah, if you Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: send me couple, I probably would take trips myself just to see them for first. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You see what's about, Jimmy Lea: um, check it out yourself. I totally agree. Mm-hmm. Once you are convinced, which I think you're gonna be convinced Yeah. Then, then there are shops that shut down the whole entire shop. They make it a a, a team building experience. Yeah. They all go together, they all travel together and, and it, it might cost the shop 20 or $30,000 for everybody that's there, blah, blah, blah. Jimmy Lea: But it is so worth it. 'cause when they all come back to the shop, production is better. It's higher. They learned how to work. This picoscope just a little bit better. Now they're fixing these cars and they're saying, you know what, if I'd have known what I know now, those other three cars that I couldn't fix last month. Jimmy Lea: I would've been able to fix 'em. Mm-hmm. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: It, it, it does, uh, trade shows. I actually was reading a book, it's called Choose Your Enemies Wisely. And he says that in there too. You, you have to bring your workers, he's in the insurance business to these, uh, tr uh, trade shows. Close them up because when they, you might spend 50 grand, but when they get back, they make you an additional a hundred. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But you gotta track it. Jimmy Lea: Track Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: it. Oh yeah. It works for sure. Jimmy Lea: What is the ROI on getting you guys out to these different mm-hmm. Conferences and trade shows? A hundred percent agree with you. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Mm-hmm. A lot of new guys might just be throwing that money around and not actually implementing what they learned. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So now you just wasted 15 rent and you're small shop. Yeah. That's big money for you. Jimmy Lea: Oh it is. It is. It is. Absolutely. Billy, I look forward to meeting you. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Alright, I, it was great meeting you as well. Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much for your time today. I love your insight. I love where you're going. We've gotta do this again. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Anytime. Jimmy Lea: Alright brother. Thank you very much. Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Thank you.

156 - Manage the Experience, Master the Shop: Bob Ward on Culture, DVIs & Tools that Win October 15, 2025 - 00:47:02   Show Summary: From a gas station side job to franchise leader turned independent owner, Bob Ward shares how he built The Auto Guys in St. Thomas, Ontario on process, people, and pride. He unpacks the leap from technician to manager to owner, the 15-year coaching run that shaped his systems, and why culture shows up in photos, bay huddles, and a joke-filled street sign. Bob dives into apprentice pipelines, the state of Canadian tech education, and what he learned serving as Midas’ Canadian dealer rep. He explains the million-dollar shop formula: manage the customer journey, run the back-of-house with clear policies, and sell from thorough DVIs. We hear how “never say no” equipment strategy, specialty tools, and daily/weekly rhythms keep work flowing. He offers recruiting and retention nuggets (from oil-filter stickers to recognizing big diags) and maps his succession plan with his service manager, Nick. The episode closes with a call to elevate trades education and transfer veteran wisdom to the next generation.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Bob Ward, Owner of St. Thomas Auto Guys   Show Highlights: [00:01:52] - Bob’s unconventional start: he aimed to be a teacher, but a gas station job and early-’80s Midas brakes era pulled him into the trade and into management. [00:04:12] - Franchise to ownership: promoted to store manager, then part-owner in six weeks—fast lessons that pushed him to seek coaching and systems. [00:08:22] - Building a brand beyond the franchise: “Make them come for you, not the logo”—earning Midas’ Presidential Awards before launching The Auto Guys. [00:10:22] - Culture you can see: a cohesive crew, pro photos, and visible joy signal a place customers and techs want to be. [00:15:15] - Fixing the pipeline: Bob details Ontario’s apprenticeship path and why high schools must rebuild hands-on tech education. [00:26:59] - Million-dollar lever #1: Manage the customer base: scripted intake, clean protections, readable DVIs, proactive updates, and timed pickups reduce end-of-day pileups. [00:29:30] - Million-dollar lever #2: Policies in the shop: enforce standards, invest in equipment, huddle daily, meet monthly, and publicly recognize tough diagnostics. [00:35:04] - Million-dollar lever #3: 300% rule in action: inspect every car, estimate every need, present every finding; target 2.5+ billed hours beyond the original concern. [00:39:59] - “Never say no”: keep programming, A/C, diagnostics, and light-duty diesel in-house so customers never need to go elsewhere. [00:41:26] - Street-smart marketing: replace competitor oil-change stickers, keep a free-water fridge, and use community touchpoints to create memorable “wow” moments.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hello friend. This is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Bob Ward, and he is joining from his shop. Are you at your shop, Bob? Yes. And your shop is in St. Thomas up in Canada, is that correct? The balmy south of Ontario. Jimmy Lea: Yes, balmy south of Ontario. I heard that there are more Canadians living south of. Was the, there's more Canadians living south of the border of the United States because of Ontario dipping down, being so populated. I don't know if that's true or not. Bob Ward: Well, it is. Ontario is the has the heaviest population density in Canada. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, it certainly does. Yep. And what a beautiful country, Bob, you guys. My two favorite places in the world that I've been to, well, two of them that are on the top 10 list is Niagara Falls and Banff. Jimmy Lea: Yep. You've been to both. Bob Ward: I've been to one. Banff is still on my bucket list. Jimmy Lea: Bro. You gotta go. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. It's absolutely gorgeous. And I went during the unseasonably. Pre spring season, the snow had melted, but there was no growth happening yet. Okay. So one would've said, oh, everything is still dead. Oh my gosh. It was so gorgeous. It was so beautiful. Bob Ward: That's typical of Canada. We've got so many natural resources and wonders that we could share with the world. Jimmy Lea: You, you really do. You really do. And there, there's no reason to travel outside of the country because there's so much country to see. Absolutely. Oh, I love it. I love it. Bob. How did you get into the automotive industry? Bob Ward: Mine is kind of an unusual story, Jimmy, because when I went to, when I graduated from high school I decided to go to university to become a high school teacher. Bob Ward: And I graduated with a double major. But in my final year my marks weren't enough. I had to repeat my final year to go back into and get my grades up to get into teacher's college, but I decided not to because while I was going to university, I was working at a gas station and I started learning stuff from the mechanics in there and back that this is the day I'm showing my age because I tell you, I dye my hair white. Bob Ward: Okay. Nobody believes me. Bob Ward: But that's when I started in the automotive trade. And what it did is it morphed from that and I started working in the bays and getting an apprenticeship and then it morphed from there. And I went, I worked in several small, independent garages. Yes. But I couldn't see myself learning anything from those places. Bob Ward: Because I wanted to get back then propane was a big ticket item. And I went and got my licenses for that. There was three licenses and I did this on my own. Well, then I joined Midas because they were getting into breaks back then in the early eighties. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Yes. Bob Ward: And I worked for them for a while, but I found that, the managers in the stores weren't very reliable back then, and I found I was having to do a lot of managing my own sales and selling stuff that the managers were supposed to do. So I started learning all that stuff. Jimmy Lea: Interesting. Bob Ward: And then the owner of the franchise saw that in me and he upgraded me to a manager to run a store. Bob Ward: Nice. So I ran a store for him for eight years and I really enjoyed it. Jimmy, I mean. There's a lot of diversity in the clients and dealing with the staff. You know what, in hindsight I thought, boy, maybe I should have gone to school for daycare daycare education when dealing with staff. Jimmy Lea: Right. Early childhood development. Bob Ward: Yeah. So then an opportunity came up where there was a franchise in St. Thomas that had. Midas had repossessed, so to speak, and I went in six weeks, I went from being a manager in a store in London to a part owner of a franchise in St. Thomas. Nice. So that was a big learning curve for me. Bob Ward: Yeah. Because, you know, all us technicians think that, you know, 'cause you're a good tech or you're a good business owner. And I sure found out quickly that I needed help. Yes. And I found that help through automotive Training Institute. Nice. And we were in one of the first groups that Chubby took in. Bob Ward: Nice. And we were with them for 15 years, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. A lot Bob Ward: of, a lot of good relationships and a lot of good friends from that. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Bob Ward: And that's the training that I needed to help me along and get me where I am today. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That is a band of brothers that, a TI is able to put together and with chubby and Bob Ward: he Jimmy Lea: has since moved on, retired and sold the business and, you know, all honor to his day. It's still going on, Jimmy. Well, it is. And it's wonderful. And I'm just pleased that I was able to meet Chubby and get to know him. I was right at the very end of his career, if you will. Jimmy Lea: Right. Like, I think I was at one of the LA my first was one of his last conferences. Super conference. Right. And then Richard and the Karens took over. Bob Ward: Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No, I know quite well. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. They are awesome people. We love them. So you went from managing the franchise to owning in a franchise. Jimmy Lea: Yep. And from owning in the franchise. 'cause you and you talk about a different skillset. I talk about a lot is technicians have the ability to turn the wrenches and cars talk to them. Then you've gotta learn a new skill set of talking to people and you have to speak human. And then you've got a third skillset of running the business, and that's a totally different skillset. Jimmy Lea: Did you find it easy to transition and learn each level along the way? Or was that challenging? Bob Ward: It was challenging on two fronts. One is. I'm not the easiest guy to knock outta my comfort zone. Okay. And I think that's characteristic of a lot of people. And I went through several coaches at where I was before, and they were all great, but they all had their strengths. Bob Ward: Okay. Yes. And they taught me to be a little more open-minded and try something different. And that's what got me, I think. Where I am today. There's still some things that I do resist, but I think that prepared me without that I wouldn't be where I am today because, you know, I was with a Midas franchisee for 20 years, and I got involved in the franchise industry. Bob Ward: I was the International Midas dealer representative for all of Canada. Nice. And I was down in corporate meetings with Midas at the executive level. Quarterly and that's where I really flourished. I really enjoyed doing that, but had I not had the training that I received, I couldn't be able to leave my business and be away for several days. Bob Ward: Right, Jimmy Lea: right. Yeah. Bob Ward: So, and then, but again, I kind of got away from the Midas, so they were great. Yes, and they still are. They're a very good organization, but I couldn't see myself going where they were going. Right, because I'm more of an independent shop owner, and even when we were a Midas franchise owner, I was operating outside the franchise agreement by doing tuneups and oil changes and things like that, that Midas was not doing. Jimmy Lea: Right. No, that's interesting. Okay. Keep going. Well, Bob Ward: yeah, and it is because the guys at a TI, they told me if you wanna be a successful franchisee. You have to make the people come to see you, not the brand. Jimmy Lea: Oh, bingo. Totally agree. If you do that, you're gonna Bob Ward: succeed. Okay. And I succeeded doing that. Bob Ward: And we were one of only, well back then there was about 1600 Midas franchisees franchises in North America. We were one of only 10. They had the presidential award. That was given out. You had to tick off a lot of boxes with business operation, customer satisfaction, purchasing, warranty ratios, all kinds of things. Bob Ward: We were only one of a 10 that won all three. Okay. Oh, I still got that on my wall here, and I look at it every day. Right, because that was a big thing in my mind to get that accomplished. But. I let my, at the end of my franchise, I bowed out and we started the Auto Guys. I love it. Bob Ward: And I learned all of the stuff I learned from a TI and I learned from Midas. I transitioned when I made Auto Guys because people come here and they think we're a franchise, and when we set the company up, we made it set up so that it could be a franchise. All of that was done at the start. Right. And I had I not had that training and had a good corporate lawyer, we wouldn't have done all that stuff. Bob Ward: Right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, and I'm looking at your website by the way, your shop looks. Phenomenal, your team. Thank you. Looks amazing. Everyone looks like they just got finished telling a really good joke 'cause they're all laughing. They're all having a great time. What a wonderful culture you must have set up here in your shop that everybody enjoys working at your shop Bob Ward: currently, Jimmy, it's this crew that I've got. Bob Ward: All of the people that I've had that's come through the shop have been great people. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Bob Ward: And each one of them has had their own strengths and they've moved on, whether it's my choice or their choice. Right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bob Ward: And I don't begrudge any of them, but without a doubt, the current crew that I have here is absolutely the most cohesive group and best working group I've ever had. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Tell me who is, I'm gonna call him hair. Who is that guy? Who is, who's the hair dude's got like a mop on his head. I mean, it's, that's some glorious locks that boy's got going there. Who is that? Bob Ward: Well, Jimmy Lea: that could Bob Ward: be I'm not on my website. Jimmy Lea: Oh, let me show you. Bob Ward: Okay, Jimmy Lea: here we go. Jimmy Lea: Whose hair? Bob Ward: Oh, that's the guy on the right. That's Vish. Yeah. He's the most photogenic guy I've ever seen. 'cause you never see him not smiling? Yeah. Okay. So he got headhunted by another company and he's doing well with his other company. Oh, congratulations. So, Vish, Vish was an awesome character, right? Jimmy Lea: Bi, his name was Bish, Bob Ward: V-V-I-S-H, VIIs. Yep. Oh wow. He is actually, believe it or not, Jimmy, he has a degree in mechanical engineering in India. Oh my word. And when he came with me, yeah. He was an apprentice and I had him do the a SE tests for both brakes and electrical. And he passed them both. Jimmy Lea: And he'd never worked on brakes or electrical. Bob Ward: No, he's that smart. Right? Good Jimmy Lea: for him Bob Ward: that Wow. But he's moved on. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that. Congratulations. Yeah, I can, you can just, you can, in some shops, you can look and you can see, and you can feel that culture of happy and enjoyment. And we like each other and we like working together. And I can definitely see it from your website that you've set up a really great website and a really great shop. Jimmy Lea: It looks, and I see three bay doors. Are they double deep? Bob Ward: There's actually four bay doors and one of them is double deep. Ah, very good. I must be missing the one then. Yeah, there's the one at the front of the building and then the side of the building, there's three more. And the center bay is a double deep bay. Bob Ward: That's the one for a long term, like for engine jobs and stuff. Jimmy Lea: Oh, very good. Very good. So the current setup for your shop is the three bays and one that's a long term. How many technicians do you have? What's the makeup there? Service advisors. What does that look like for you? Bob Ward: Well, I have one service manager slash advisor, Nick. Bob Ward: I work with him out front. I'm licensed myself. Yeah. But I don't work on cars unless it's an old car that comes in or it's, the guys need a hand with something. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, Bob Ward: I have so there's Nick and I up front and I have four guys in the back, two ap, two apprentices, and two licensed technicians. Bob Ward: I gotta say Jimmy, both my licensed techs were with me before and they came back to me again and they're two of the best teachers ever. The two of my apprentices are in a really good spot from learning 'cause both these other tech techs will share any of their information and guide them into doing jobs and that's, and they don't even bat an eye, they just do it. Jimmy Lea: Brother. I love that. That is awesome. Is that Chris and Steve? Are they your texts that came back? Well, Chris is no longer with me. Bob Ward: Okay. We're updating our website there. So it's Steve and Rob. Oh. Which is in the process of uploading their pictures and their bios. Jimmy Lea: Yep. I love it. I love it. Jimmy Lea: You, you, those are some of the photos you have to do professionally. Because it's on your website. It's there forever. Every other photo that you take with your cell phone, yeah. It's appropriate for social media and we can share it and all that jazz. Yeah. But I love your professional shots. It speaks volumes to what you're doing in the shop. Jimmy Lea: That's very cool. Thank you. Yes. And thank you for building our apprentices, for those that are coming into the industry as well. Do, does, is there a path for them to follow? Have you laid out a path for them? Bob Ward: It's all pretty much orchestrated. It's the apprentices in Canada are governed by each province. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Bob Ward: And currently it's the Ministry of Skills and Development. Excellent. But before that, it was the Ontario College of Trades. And I got involved, I sat on the Board of Governors for the College of Trades, representing the Mode of Power division. I sat on that for two and a half years. Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. Bob Ward: Right. So, yes, there's a good path for them to follow. And of course, it's all digital now. Yes. But it's, well, currently I'm working with the ministry of Skills and Development because we've got an education system problem here in Canada. Okay. Jimmy Lea: The Bob Ward: young, the young kids that are coming through now, there's, they're starting to push or promote the trades again. Bob Ward: And for the longest time, all of the technology courses were being dropped and it was all academics. Well, now it's swinging back to this, but the education system is not geared up. The kids now are not taking the courses they need to be in the trades. In North America and I'll speak for Canada. Bob Ward: I can't speak for the US Jimmy, but Sure. The trades skilled trades in Europe are handled totally differently. So when these young people decide they go into high school or whatever it is over there, and they decide they want to trade, they're automatically funneled into predetermined courses. Bob Ward: They have to take over there. They're not optional, they're mandatory. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Bob Ward: And during their time over there, they are sent out to co-op in different locations. Now, in Canada, we have co-op here as well. Okay. What I'm finding is because the education is lacking, it's fallen right back that some of the kids that the co, the high schools are trying to send to me, I can't take them. Bob Ward: Because they, they have had no experience working around equipment or they haven't got the training to work on the cars. And it's sad. So we're working with them to get that back up and running and get these kids geared more for, technical training. 'cause I mean, you know, when I graduated from high school and I started my apprenticeship, I had no automotive experience whatsoever. Bob Ward: I didn't take any technical courses. I graduated from Western, I had two degrees from Western. Okay. And when I got into trade school, I was like a fish outta water. Okay. The hardest ones for me were machine shop. I knew electrical and I knew carburetors. I knew all of that stuff. And the guys that I met in trade school, I helped teach them the electrical and the carburetors, and they taught me how to do the machine shop stuff. Bob Ward: So we got each other through the class. Right. Oh, that's good. I still have good friendships with some of those guys that I've kept in touch with over the years. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's beautiful. But it's a Bob Ward: close knit group, Jimmy. Jimmy Lea: Oh, it is. Bob Ward: It's just, it's the same thing with the shop owners. We belong to several chat groups with shop owners and one of them we meet every once a Thursday a month. Bob Ward: And it's, you can call it a bitch session if you want, but we talk about things and we, you never know where you're gonna get a nugget from. Jimmy Lea: Right. Bob Ward: And they come from all over the place. And it's these chat groups. These memberships that I belong to, that's where you really flourish. Bob Ward: Yeah. Okay. And I can't say enough about shop owners. You get drawn into your shop and it takes all your time and you can't you build walls all around yourself and you've gotta stop and break down those walls and get out, and then you can educate yourself. 'cause that's the big thing with shops now, shop owners. Bob Ward: Is all of the red tape that you've gotta go through with the government and with the local bylaws and everything and learning and keeping up, up, abreast on everything. Yeah. If you don't keep up abreast and you stop, the other shops that are doing it are gonna just storm right by you and you're just gonna be left. Bob Ward: I call 'em lud eggs. Right. So the shops, oh, lu eggs, Lud eggs. Oh, I get you. Yes. Oh yeah. The shops that don't do anything and they just keep doing the same thing and don't progress. You're just, you're gonna find yourself in a hole and you're never gonna get out of it. Jimmy Lea: That's so true. It's so true. And the education problem that you're talking about, Bob, that is rampant all across North America even here in the lower 48, Bob Ward: right? Jimmy Lea: It is just as bad as it is there in Canada. And we've gotta work to correct the ship to, right the ship. Yep. There's an available 70 to a hundred thousand positions for technicians to step into. Yeah. But this year in North America, we're only gonna have 30,000 graduate from technical schools. Jimmy Lea: And after the first year, half of those aren't gonna still be in the business. Not to mention the 50 to 60,000 that are retiring every year too. 'cause the body just can't take it. Bob Ward: And that in itself is a tremendous loss of knowledge and wisdom that is not being transferred over to these young kids. Bob Ward: Truth, Jimmy Lea: right? Truth. Bob Ward: And the other thing that we're finding too, Jimmy, is when we do interviews. By the way, I hate doing interviews, right. I'm not good at it, but I've got a system down. But you've gotta look at the individual deeper than what their schooling is. Everything you've gotta see if they have a good mindset, if they're gonna fit into your team. Bob Ward: Right. And they're gonna be there for the long haul. Because what I'm finding too, with some of these kids, they want the big bucks and they want the jobs right away and they can't have it. No. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, they're not qualified Bob Ward: yet. Well, they're not qualified and they can't see it because up here, the education system, they don't fail kids or hold kids back anymore. Bob Ward: They keep promoting them. Right? So all of a sudden the kids are coming out into the real world where they're getting into hitting a brick wall because, so those of us that are shop owners, we've built our business up and we've got certain criteria that you must meet. And if you don't meet it. Right. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's, and I Bob Ward: hate to throw people to the curb. Bob Ward: Yeah. We always try and help them and get them, and some of them have really flourished because it's amazing when you spend some time with these young kids and teach them of what they can be and how they can get there by themselves and utilizing friendships and stuff how some kids flourish and those are the keepers. Jimmy Lea: Totally. Bob Ward: But it's unfortunate because there's places in my town where they're constantly headhunting my techs. Jimmy Lea: Oh Bob Ward: yeah. Yeah, they are. Yep. Jimmy Lea: And in fact I was talking to Tyler Nichols yesterday from extra Mile Auto Care out of where's he out of? Steelwater, Oklahoma. Bob Ward: Okay. Jimmy Lea: He had an interview with a technician and he's the general manager. Jimmy Lea: Tyler's the general manager. He called Aaron the owner and said, Hey, I just interviewed a guy to be one of our techs. However, he's really gonna be a great service advisor. Can we hire him to be a service advisor? Yep. To your exact point, when you see the potential inside of people, you're hiring for that potential. Jimmy Lea: Not just the tick on the box that says they have an education from this place. You know, what are their pastimes, what are their hobbies? What do they like to do outside of work? Is that gonna be fitting into your company and your culture? Bob Ward: And you're absolutely right, Jimmy, because like my service manager, he was with me a while ago and he clashed with my then manager. Bob Ward: I'll be honest I didn't know how to deal with this manager. He shouldn't have been where he was, but I was coping with him. And then when he left my service manager, Nick came back. Now Nick I got him from one of my parts suppliers. He was a Counterman. Oh, nice. And he was really good. And he's an awesome guy, but he also races super stock stock cars. Bob Ward: Oh yeah. You have no idea the number of people that know him from that. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. And Bob Ward: how the people from the stock car side of things, Jimmy Lea: the community, they actually Bob Ward: come in and talk to him. And people recognize, you know, they say, well, well, I saw you on TV and on watching you racing. Bob Ward: Yep, that's him. Well, it's a instant bond. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. This Bob Ward: kid knows cars. Jimmy Lea: Right. Bob Ward: And he can answer questions that people, nothing impresses people more than going into a place and asking car questions and getting an answer from him rather than saying, well, just a minute I'll go get somebody that knows what they're doing. Bob Ward: Yeah. Which is what happens in dealerships. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Yeah. Bob Ward: Okay. And I love dealerships, Jimmy, because we get more business from them. Yeah, they're your MVP, right? That's right. So, it's amazing. What people pick up too. When people come in, like my wife, she keeps on me about changing the signs out front. Bob Ward: We, we got our a street side sign. I put jokes up every week. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Bob Ward: The number of people that comment on, oh, I see your signs. Signs all the time and everything. It's little things like that don't realize when we do put a serious sign up, it gets noticed. Jimmy Lea: Right. Yeah. So Bob Ward: she makes sure the shop is clean and people notice that we got a Tim Horton's franchise beside us. Bob Ward: And it's a compliment when people come in and they say, I went over there to get a donut. I've got a Tim's card that I give 'em. I said, you're going over there. Here. I give 'em the Tim's card, buy yourself a coffee and a donut. And some of them, a lot of them come back and they say, your place is cleaner than that. Bob Ward: Tim's next door. Okay. That's pretty good. I know. So when people notice this and they also notice what we were talking about before, how well the guys joke and kid act amongst themselves. People notice that. Right. I love Jimmy Lea: it. Yeah. Bob Ward: And that's the thing that's gonna set you apart from other places, is what people notice. Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. Okay, so I just did a little bit of searching here to discover your sign. Is this the old school? Put the letters up. On the sign kind of sign. Yep. I hope my ship comes in before my dock rots. Bob Ward: Well, that's a story I'll tell you about that because the, I put that up and a customer came by. She brought me a little silicone boat. Bob Ward: Okay. Did you see that picture? Yeah. The little blue boat right next to it. Yep. Yep. So I put on the sign today, right? My ship finally came in along with donuts. Okay. And I put that out on the sign because only that person will see that and know what it means. Yes. I love it. And we get customers that come in all the time and they say, here's, this is what I found. Bob Ward: Right. And I put their stuff up there too. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. I love the company, the culture, the look, the feel. I love what you're doing, Bob. Congratulations. Thank you, Jim. That does not happen by accident. That takes a lot of work to make it look effortless. Bob Ward: And that's right. And we've all heard it. Bob Ward: I mean, it's a hard thing to get something in place, but it's even harder to keep it in place. Oh, amen. It's very easy to let it slide. Right? Jimmy Lea: Yep. Well, let's talk about what do you think are the three things holding shops back today? From being a million dollar shop? Bob Ward: The number one thing is managing your customer base. Bob Ward: Okay. Okay. You have to have policies and perche procedures in place for everything, but how the customer is handled when they come in, how the communication, the ongoing how they're checked in how the car's prepared. We put slip covers and seat covers and floors in all the cars before they come in and people notice that, right? Bob Ward: So it's our attention to detail. So it's the intake process with customers. The we even design and put in our own digital inspections and they get inspections that they can actually read that the shop, the texts, fill 'em all out. Yeah, there's no tech handwriting. A hundred percent. Bob Ward: There's no dirty finger marks on 'em or oil on 'em or anything. I love it. And the customers expect that now. So, it's the procedures that we follow when we call 'em and let them know what's wrong with their card and how much it'll cost and how that whole transaction transpires. And then the same thing when the cars come in. Bob Ward: They come in and pick up their car. Yeah, right. Because we give them a time of completion. We call 'em and tell 'em when their car's ready so that everybody, you know, in the old days everybody used to come in at five or five 30 and you'd get slammed. Well, we don't do that anymore. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. People Bob Ward: come out through the day and they'll pick up their car. Bob Ward: So at the end of the day, it's quiet. We can get all our paperwork done and everything done. So how you handle the customers and the fact that you exceed your customer's expectations every time they come in, you have to do that. And it can be a wow factor from a Timmy's card. Or we give car wash coupons out from around the corner to everybody that comes in. Bob Ward: It's little things like that they like. Or here's the thing that I put in, 'cause we're, our temperatures can be in the eighties and nineties, in the summertime, and it's very humid here. I got this old beat up fridge that I had in my upstairs lunch room for the guys. It was becoming too small, so I bought another fridge. Bob Ward: I took that fridge downstairs and put it in the showroom, put an auto guy's label on it, and I put free cold water on it. There you go. And people come in and they just go right to the fridge. Right? Is little things like that separate you. So there's your customer management. Jimmy Lea: I love Bob Ward: it. Okay, so the other thing there, there were three things, right? Bob Ward: Yes. The other thing is policies and procedures in dealing with your technicians out back, okay? You have to have rules and regulations that are followed. They have to be monitored and they have to be enforced. So I've got a very good lady that's an HR person that helps us and she keeps me on update on all the new laws and regulations and helps me keep my guys in line. Bob Ward: And the guys actually appreciate that. They know that if there's, I mean, nobody's perfect, Jimmy, even I've done things where I've gotten in trouble with my wife or whoever, or my HR lady who gives me hell every once in a while, but it's there for a reason. It's to keep us going in the right direction. Bob Ward: That's right. Right. So we've got, not only do we have technician and bay management, right. The other thing is equipment. If you wanna play in today's market, you've gotta take the word no outta your vocabulary, Jimmy Lea: okay? Bob Ward: Okay. So if you bring your car into me, Jimmy and I do everything. I do air conditioning, we do diagnostics, we do programming, everything. Bob Ward: There's nothing we don't do. I will not give you a reason to take your car somewhere else. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. I love, there's no Bob Ward: way, okay? Because if you do that, you can lose a customer. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Bob Ward: And I don't wanna take that chance. So that's what we do here is you're you've got all the top end equipment. Bob Ward: We have daily huddles with the techs before, so they know what's up for the day. And we have a monthly staff meeting where I buy the guys lunch and it's a, like a down and dirty thing. We give agendas out. The guys know what's gonna be talked on. And sometimes we ask the guys to give a little speech and talk about something like we've got a bulletin board up there where sometimes the technicians go above and beyond. Bob Ward: They've had a very difficult dag job and we recognize it on the bulletin board and we recognize it on our monthly meeting that say, Hey, Steve had this really nasty. Diag and we leave them alone. I'm not a guy that harps these guys. If they're head deep into a diag, I leave them alone. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, yeah. Bob Ward: I don't bug 'em. Bob Ward: I don't tell 'em You've got 15 minutes or whatever to finish this. And those guys love it when you do that. Jimmy Lea: That's right. You can't interrupt their thought flow and process. Nope. Let 'em have at it. Bob Ward: Yep. But again, you keep up with the customer. You say, look, this is where Steve is in your diag. This is where he is. Bob Ward: He's finally got an area that he's go, he knows he is gonna go in this direction. It's costing you this much so far, and this is what we're projecting. And if you keep the customer in the loop with that they're more aware of it. So you're not giving him a heart attack at the end. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Jimmy Lea: And the Bob Ward: technician's happy. Ultimately, the customer's happy because their car's fixed. Okay. It may not be cheap, but I'm not the cheapest shop in town and I don't wanna entertain that. Jimmy Lea: No, that's right. We're here to fix it. Bob Ward: Right. We know this is one thing that a shop owner has to know. You've gotta know your breakeven point, your minimum sales target to make Your expenses. Bob Ward: Yeah. If you know that, Jimmy Lea: then you can build from that. Amen. If you know what it takes to break that nut. And the challenge is, can I break it by the 20th of the month? The 15th of the month? The 12th of the month. How is it? The 18th of the month? Is it the 31st of the month? Yep. That's a challenge. We got things to talk about. Jimmy Lea: The sooner you can break that number to know that you've got everything covered, the better it is for your shop. I love that. Thank you, Ben. And, Bob Ward: And you know, I've been to some. Some places where the shop owners haven't got a clue Yes. What's going on? You know, and I feel sorry for them, but there again, you can't, you can tee a horse knows how to drink, right? Bob Ward: You gotta lead them to where they drink, what trough to drink from, right? That's the part that you can't do. And some of us have found troughs to drink in multiple troughs. 'cause you can't just stick with one. You've gotta go in through a bunch. Right. But it's the shops that find those and can get pulled themselves out because in, in town here in it is Heyday. Bob Ward: There were probably, we're in a town of about 40,000 now. There were 35 shops in, in our town Independence and franchises and stuff, which was crazy. Now there's 20. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Bob Ward: It doesn't take long for these shops to fall off and go bankrupt because they can't keep up. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and so to your third point, your first point is manage your customer base. Jimmy Lea: Manage your customer's experience. I love that. Number two is your policies, procedures, working with your technicians and making sure that they're on top of their game. What is your third element that says if shop owners can do this, they'll. Break that $1 million per year sales. Bob Ward: Okay there's two answers to that one. Bob Ward: Okay. One is doing thorough vehicle inspections and the, that then it's passed on to the service manager. The service advisor, how to sell that stuff, how to sell it right away or project it into the future. For your next visit, Jimmy, we're gonna be servicing your transmission and your breaks. The visit after that. Bob Ward: We're gonna be, we're gonna be doing something else, right? So, you know, ahead of time, everybody works on budgets. So if you can tell people your next visit's gonna cost this much, right? They can strive to that and it's an easier sell. So that's the first thing is doing thorough inspections. Now, the caveat from that is you can do an inspection, but you've also gotta sell that work. Bob Ward: So what I'm looking for on invoices is I'm looking for. At least two and a half hours of build time on each invoice. Minimum for other categories Yes. Than what it came in for. Agreed. A hundred percent. Okay. Love Jimmy Lea: it. Bob Ward: Keep Jimmy Lea: going. Bob Ward: Then you know that you're working towards your goal of seeing the people more often, right? Bob Ward: That's the thing where customers are our customer. They're not a number. That's right. And when, and here's something else I keep thinking about. If customers come in, if you go to a, we've all got our favorite restaurants, Jimmy. Yep. If you go into that restaurant and you see the same servers all the time, that says a lot about that restaurant. Bob Ward: Same thing in our business. If you see the same guys out back and you see the same service advisor, right? That says a lot. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. We have a favorite restaurant that we go to. It's called the High Red. It's a sushi bar. And when we walk in, they know Playboy role, executive role. It's on the way. Jimmy Lea: There you go. Bob Ward: Yep. And that says a lot. So, yeah. And the other thing is you've gotta give your techs the equipment to do their job. Yes. I do not expect my techs to buy these specialty tools. We buy them all the time. Nice. And that they bring it up at the meeting or they bring it up at a huddle and say, look, you know, we got a particular job we're doing on a, we have a lot of German cars that come in here now. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Bob Ward: And you know the timing belt jobs, you need those special kits for the timing chains and timing belts. Yes. We got them. We get them ahead of time so that when the car comes in, the techs know they've got everything at their disposal to do the job properly. Jimmy Lea: Good. Right. Bob Ward: And that's where you've gotta, if you wanna play now you gotta pay. Bob Ward: That's my model. Right. So if you give the techs what they need to do their job, they're gonna be happy. Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. Totally agree. So I love your third point here is not only are you doing, and we would call this the 300% rule on your inspections, right? Every car gets inspected, every need, every red or yellow has a picture, and it goes to the service advisor. Jimmy Lea: Estimates every needed repair. So number one you document every needed repair. Number two you estimate every repair. And number three, you show the full inspection, the full estimate to the customer. Right. And very easily you'll have two to three, to four to five to six hours over what they brought it in for. Jimmy Lea: Because there are safety issues on every vehicle that is not being taken care of. Until a shop like yours, Bob steps in and says, these are the things we need to do to keep you safe on the road. So thank you and props to you for doing that. So thorough, DVI. And then the final is tools, scanners, probes. Jimmy Lea: You've got all of them. Everything. You've got everything. So are you, do you focus, are you all makes and all models or do you focus on European or domestic or Asian, or are you truly open to all. Bob Ward: All models, Jimmy Lea: Jimmy. Woohoo. Bob Ward: Yep. Even light duty diesels we work on, there's a lot more of them now. Yeah, that's true. Bob Ward: Yep. But there's not a lot that we don't actually, you'll see one time we were goofing around in the shop and I had a lawnmower shop lawnmower. I put it up on the hoist and I had two guys, one with a scanner and one working underneath it. On a creeper say, we work on everything here. Oh, that's hilarious. Bob Ward: And that got a whack of likes on Facebook when I posted that. Right. Oh, that's awesome. But and every shop has we have a huge following of mini people. Yes. Many. Yep. Yep. And they love to hear that you've got texts that work on minis or a particular car. 'cause everybody's got their favorite cars, but sure, sure. Bob Ward: You know, if we can work on them all and we have the proper lubricants. To work on them all and maintain the warranties for people's cars, right? Yes. Yes. And that is credibility for the shop. Jimmy Lea: I love that. And I'll say this too, Bob, not only do I want to know as a consumer, not only do I want to know that you can work on my mini, I want to know that your technician likes working on minis and they enjoy it and they're good at it, and they excel at it. Jimmy Lea: Because if I bring my mini into you, I don't want to be the first guy that you're fixing. I want to be the 12th in line or the 13th in line because you fixed it 12 times already this year. This is just another day on the week. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I love it. That is very cool Bob Ward: because you know, in, in dealerships, and they still do this, they still tell the people, when you buy a car, you've gotta get it serviced with us, and they don't. Bob Ward: Right. Once you talk to people about that, I look at the oil change stickers that are in there. Now, here's a little nugget I'm gonna give you. Okay. I'm taking notes. Go ahead. When I see a carve with a competitor's oil change sticker on the windshield, I take it off, I go into my label printer and I print one up with the exact mileage that was on that one and the due date, and I put my sticker on the windshield. Bob Ward: When your car's next for service, you look up there and go Auto guys. Okay. I'll phone them. 'cause my number's on Love it. You can steal a lot of people away just by doing that. Oh, interesting. Okay. But again, if you see the oil chain search I absolutely detest fast lube places. Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, Bob Ward: the quick Jimmy Lea: lubes. Bob Ward: Fast lube. Yes. And we'll tell people that we can, we do it cheaper. We've got licensed techs, we sell ourselves and I can take a lot of people away from these quick lube places simply by looking at the oil change sticker that's there. You've gotta look at all your resources and say, where can I get new business from? Bob Ward: If an oil change sticker's one of them, and you get one customer from that, your job's done. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Can I tit for tap for you on that as well? Yeah. So right along with your lube oil sticker. What if you put a sticker on the oil filter? If you're a technician looking for a really great place to work, gimme a call. Jimmy Lea: Awesome. They're gonna call, I'm writing that down. Right on. I love exchanging really good ideas and marketing concepts. Yeah. We know technicians are. Difficult to find these days, and if you can find a good one by putting a sticker on an oil filter and it goes into another bay and another shop and another dealership somewhere down the road. Jimmy Lea: Yep. It would be great for them to come back and talk to you. I love it. I love it. I love it. You gave me a nugget. There you go. There's the nugget. So Bob, if you were to have a magic wand and you could change anything in this industry, now of course you can't wish for more wishes, but if you could change anything in the industry, what would you alter? Bob Ward: I would alter the education system for upcoming. Youth. That's the big thing that I would change to not make it shameful to be in a trade. I love it. That's the one thing I would change. Love it. And we're in the process of working on this. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Yeah, that's a big wand. And you are in the trenches, you are working on that big time. Jimmy Lea: Have you ever watched Mike Rowe and his sweat pledge? Oh yeah. Here in the United States? Yeah. Bob Ward: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh man. He is all over the trades and the trades industry and specifically in the automotive world, he has very specific automotive things that he does for. Technicians and technician training and schooling to really help this industry move forward. Jimmy Lea: So I applaud you. And I applied Mike Rowe as well. I think that you guys are phenomenal human beings. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you for your wand as well. So what does the what does the future hold for you, Bob? What's next? Bob Ward: Well, I'm at the point where I'm still gonna start to take some, a little bit more time off here and there. Bob Ward: Right. Okay. And enjoy things because I built a very good working relationship with my service manager, Nick. Right. And actually we're having a an after hours meeting tomorrow night, and we're gonna make a bunch of policy changes in the shop. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Bob Ward: And it's through these meetings that you can keep him A, his input, right, and B, his ideas. Bob Ward: Where we, you never know where we're gonna go, right? It's more than just raising prices or whatever. It's changing policies and things. And that's the thing that I think we need to focus on is your relationship with your key staff. Okay. Jimmy Lea: Love it. I love public on that and 'cause Bob Ward: ideally I can't be in this forever and with all of the online stuff, like I'd be kinda lost without Nick. Bob Ward: Nick knows the online stuff, but he doesn't know the stuff that I've got up in my head. That's right. And it's my job to share with him that stuff and then he shares the other stuff with me. Right. And helps me along. 'cause I wouldn't be as far along computer wise had it not be for people like Nick. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Jimmy Lea: I love it. The two halves make a whole for sure. That's right. That's beautiful. So is Nick on the list? Is he possibly one of your succession plan? Do you Absolutely. You're looking at a key employee situation here. Have you started that process or is it in the beta? Bob Ward: Well, no, we've started the process. Bob Ward: It's in the beta, but it's in the late beta stages. And that's one of the things that we're gonna talk about tomorrow night in my meeting with him. Right. Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Congratulations. That's awesome. That's awesome that you've got a succession plan and then it becomes the onus comes onto Nick. Jimmy Lea: Now, Nick, what do you wanna do? Yep. Do you want to optimize a single location? Do you want to really reach out because you've set him up with a beautiful floor plan that he could become a multiple shop operator and have that look and feel of a. Mega shop. You bet. Yeah. That's beautiful. Well, congratulations, Bob. Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Bob Ward: My pleasure, Jimmy. Anytime. Jimmy Lea: All right, brother. Thank you. Well, you're welcome.

155 - Lawn Mowers to Leadership: 40 Years of Lessons at R&N Motor Company October 10, 2025 - 00:46:45   Show Summary: This episode dives into the story of Robert Crawford, owner of R & N Motor Company in Sanford, North Carolina, who’s been turning wrenches and building relationships since 1984. Robert shares how he went from rebuilding lawnmowers as a kid to running a thriving eight-bay shop with his son at the counter and his wife managing the books. He and host Jimmy Lea discuss what it means to grow from technician to owner, how to measure success beyond sales, and the importance of creating a culture where people want to stay. From lessons learned through failed ventures to his philosophy on mentorship, training, and preparing for retirement, Robert’s story is a blueprint for longevity in the automotive business.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development   Guest(s): Robert Crawford, Shop Manager of R&N Motor Company   Show Highlights: [00:05:12] - Jimmy and Robert laugh about shop locations, customer parking, and the realities of Google Street View. [00:09:18] - Robert’s early start: rebuilding lawnmowers in middle school and landing his first shop job in 1984. [00:10:44] - How Robert bought the business through sweat equity and kept his mentor’s legacy alive. [00:13:16] - The slow, guided transition from tech to owner—and “What would Mr. Peewee do?” leadership. [00:18:13] - Tracking gross profit per hour as the shop’s key performance indicator. [00:21:05] - Why Robert switched to Tekmetric and added Detect Auto to improve maintenance opportunities. [00:28:05] - Future plans: retiring with his wife, passing the business to his son, and avoiding rental pitfalls. [00:34:54] - The costly exhaust franchise mistake that taught him to always research before investing. [00:38:04] - His wish for the industry: faster growth in trades education and more hands-on apprenticeships.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: JImmy Lea: Hello friend, this is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and this you are listening to is the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Robert, and Robert is the owner of R and N Auto out of North Carolina. Is that right? Robert r and n Motor Company? Yes, sir. R and m Motor Company. JImmy Lea: That's awesome. And we were just in North Carolina at the Asta Trade Show. Were you at Asta? Yes, sir. We brought our whole crew. Oh, that's awesome. I can't believe I missed you there. Robert Crawford: Yeah. JImmy Lea: How was that? Oh, the whole crew. The whole crew. That's awesome. What did they think of the conference? The training? Robert Crawford: They always enjoy it. Sometimes the training can get a little bit below you when you're there participating in the class, but, you know, I understand the training has to be a broad range for different people, so it's gonna be that way. Yep. Well, and you know, if. JImmy Lea: If you're a tech and you're sitting in a basic breaks class, but you're a master tech, go find another class. Robert Crawford: Well, I can give an example. Yeah, gimme an example. They did that actually. They were in an ADOS class and we have a brand new ados mobile unit. I think it's the IW 700, and the instructor brings out a plumb bob and a string. We don't use that. We've got the lasers on the machine and all that. So we, they were like, really? Robert Crawford: So, and that was the things that they mentioned to me. But overall, you're always gonna glean something out of a class no matter what it is. JImmy Lea: I agree. Especially if you're looking for that nugget. If you're looking for that one bit of information that makes all the difference. And you know, even though we have the lasers and that sort of thing. JImmy Lea: Understanding the origins of, Hey, look guys, if your lasers get messed up for a minute, you can use this plumb bob to really dial it in. Make sure you're right. Robert Crawford: Right. But you know, all the techs got, they all want the bells and whistles. They don't really want the down to earth back in the day stuff, you know? Robert Crawford: Yeah. Right. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and it's true. I mean, so for those texts that, that are on the cutting edge. They want all the bells and whistles. They want the latest, greatest, the new color scheme. You know that's all great and everything, but if you understand where it's come from, it's gonna help you that much better to be a better technician. Robert Crawford: Right. One of our new, this is his first time going with us and he really liked it. He took a lot of the basic classes and he enjoyed himself. JImmy Lea: Good. Good. So he signed up to go next year? Yes, sir. Good Lord. Willing. Yeah. Good Lord will. Hey. And you know, we're in the same location next year. Yeah. That, what'd you think of that conference center? Robert Crawford: I'm gonna tell you, at first I was a little the drive there was a little stressful, but once I got in the parking deck after the lady up there drove me crazy, I thought the facility was fantastic. We were right across the street in a hotel. We walked, never got in the car until I had to leave. And the facility the Civic center was great. Robert Crawford: I spent about a hundred, yeah. Coffee shop. But yeah, JImmy Lea: it was a good facility. Yeah, that was a good facility. I loved that. I thought the convention center itself was big and it provided us a room for everything we wanted to do. The thing that got me was, yeah, there was a bit of walking involved. JImmy Lea: There was a lot of up and down and escalators and I'm sure we were on three different floor. Three, four. Yeah. We had four floors. Wow, I missed out on that top floor. So the top floor was the ballrooms. That's where all the meals was. Robert Crawford: Right. JImmy Lea: The main floor registration had four or six classrooms around the corner. JImmy Lea: The set, the third floor down had six classrooms down that hallway, and then the basement was where the vendors were, where the trade show was. I call it the basement. It's probably the first floor. Robert Crawford: Yeah, well it was neat 'cause I came down the escalator with my co with my phone, was taking a video going down the escalator overlooking the show. Robert Crawford: It was pretty impressive. JImmy Lea: Yes I did, I thoroughly enjoyed that location and we have the ability of expanding out through two more spaces the exact same size as that, so we can grow this conference quite a bit. I'm super excited for it. I Robert Crawford: don't know. I kind of like having the tattoo people next door. Robert Crawford: 'cause that was very JImmy Lea: interesting. Well, it was, did you notice on the first day we were all intermingled and then by the second day it was like, all right, you guys use these doors and you guys use these doors. I was like wait. Robert Crawford: And JImmy Lea: so mingled, these are our people. Robert Crawford: Yeah. They did a good job of like keeping the two trades apart, so that was good. JImmy Lea: Not bad. A little bit better than the experience I had in Minneapolis, Minnesota when we showed up and it was at the exact same time we had the Ratchet and Wrench conference and it was the furry migration. Robert Crawford: Oh yeah. JImmy Lea: Oh yeah, that's right. Enough said about that. That's different podcast for a different time, and we haven't had enough adult beverages to talk about that one yet. JImmy Lea: So let's talk about Robert. You own a phenomenal shop. You 299, 5 star reviews on Carfax 648 reviews on Google. You've got a 4.9 rating. You're just really killing it. You're doing really well. How in the world does your shop being that close to the freeway, how do people get in that front door? JImmy Lea: And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to search it online because this boy's front door, he must have barely a shoulder for people to walk down. At least that's what it looks like. Robert, tell me about it. Robert Crawford: It's actually not as bad as it sounds on from you. It's if you go to 4 21 through downtown Sanford, it is a four lane highway, but it's 35 miles an hour there. Robert Crawford: We're on a turnoff off that, the second building off of that, and it's really a two lane road. It just has wide lanes and it's slow traffic through there. So we're just a rock throw from the main high, which is actually a good thing. JImmy Lea: Yeah, that is a good thing, being so close to the freeway, that's nice. JImmy Lea: That's really nice. Do you have a lot of people that pull in the gates and park and then walk on the inside gates? 'cause I noticed there's a door on the inside of the gate as well as the outside. Robert Crawford: We try to keep, we have yellow signs of, you know, signs for people who wanna obey signs. I don't really want people pulling in the gate because we're backing out of the building parts. Robert Crawford: People are there. And we've had a couple of almost collisions there before. We actually had one customer hit another car while they pulled their car in. So we tell people, please park in front of the building. So between us and our building, between our front door and the street, there's enough room for two rows of cars and there's a sidewalk there. Robert Crawford: So we want them to go there. Park JImmy Lea: in front. Oh dude. Okay. Then I'm totally misled by the pictures I saw. It looks like your front door is. It's right on the shoulder of the freeway. Google Me man. Google me. I did. That's the way I was looking. I was looking at your Facebook page. That's what I was looking at. JImmy Lea: So yeah, I'll have to go on Google Street so I can see. So you two cars, two rows, and then you got a sidewalk and then the freeway. So you, yeah, you got plenty of room. You wanna see somebody who is right on the freeway, go to Performance place in South Jordan, Utah. Tracy Holt owns that shop. He is. JImmy Lea: Quite literally on the freeway. On the freeway I think there's, there is a sidewalk and there's a little strip of grass, but it's only like a two foot wide strip of grass. You're your one sneezed away from getting hit if you're standing on that sidewalk. It used to be that they had a bunch of room, went back when they built it, but then eminent domain, they could just kept taking land. JImmy Lea: Now it's almost to the front door, like it, it wouldn't even pass code today. That's another story. I love your shop. I love what you're doing. I love that you're in North Carolina. I'm glad you were at Asta. That is a heck of a show. Can't wait to see you again there next year. And you're right. JImmy Lea: Having the motel or the hotel Marriott down the street or across the street and the, there were like six different hotels that were super close, made it super easy and convenient for everything. Robert Crawford: And last year when we went, we had to drive. And when you've gone to the party room and you've gone to the go-karts and you're a little bit. Robert Crawford: You've had your extra limit of two beers, you don't really need to be driving around. So that just makes it nice. I don't have to worry about my guys. JImmy Lea: Bingo. Yeah. How far is home to the show in Raleigh? Robert Crawford: If you are in Raleigh and you take number one south, we're about 45, 50 miles, right off number one. Robert Crawford: That freeway you keep talking about intersects with number one, two miles down the road. So we're, it's a, oh, I love it For us and honestly we yeah. For the show and come home at night. It was a late night. Sure. We come home and get up the next morning. JImmy Lea: Right. But thank you for getting the hotel rooms that makes everybody this decisions are cleaner, easier. JImmy Lea: We can all stay right there. That's awesome. So Robert, let's go back in time. How did you get involved in the automotive repair? Robert Crawford: I've always been kind of mechanically inclined. I even in middle school, I would actually rebuild lawnmower engines for my neighbors and I asked mom, did you really to come and finish this engine? Robert Crawford: She says, as long as you get good grades, that'd be fine. So I'd skip school and finish rebuilding the engines on lawnmowers for friends and neighbors and people like that. I've always done that. I had bicycles and riding mowers and when my stepfather had a garage, you know, in school they ask you, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Robert Crawford: I wanted the gas pumps outside in a two bay garage since I was in the eighth grade. You know, that was my dream. So it worked out great. I've been very blessed. But to go back to what you're asking me. The boss of RNA Motors, John p Rosser, his son and me went to school from the fourth grade on. So when he was in high school, he was asking him, do you know anybody who can bring in and train? Robert Crawford: So in 11th and 12th grade, I took automotive tech one and two and he brought me in. So right outta high school June of 1984, that's been a long time ago. We sat on his back porch and he interviewed me next to his pool and he wanted someone that can come in and he could train. So I've been there ever since. Robert Crawford: Now. Me and my wife had been running the business for them up until 2014 where he passed away. Loved him like a daddy, but we all know things are gonna happen, and we literally bought the business with sweat equity. We didn't buy the business. We ran it for a long time While they were there, we paid them a check to stay home and travel around in their motor home. Robert Crawford: Ran it like it was ours. I tell people it was like living with a woman for 10 years and then you get married, you put the marriage certificate in the file cabinet, and you're still the same way. That's what it was to me in 2014 when the paperwork was signed. Me and my wife had been running it for 15 years anyway, so it was just a, an official deal and now we're going there. JImmy Lea: So I've been Robert, congratulations. Thank you. 1984. Brother. That's a long time. 40 plus years you've been running this show. Most people can pay Robert Crawford: for their house with their W twos, but I've only had one. JImmy Lea: Oh, that's hilarious, Robert. Oh, that's so true. That's so true. And what about your friend that you went to high school with whose daddy did own the shop? Where's he at? What's he doing? Robert Crawford: He's actually had some health issues and he's at home now because he really can't work well. And his mother, who was like, I think she's like 96, he kind of helps take care of her. Robert Crawford: Whoa. Yeah, she's still got a great mind. She's still sharp as attack. Of course, Mr. Officer passed away in 2014. Yes, and I love like a mom and I call her mama. JImmy Lea: Oh, that's great. That's great. I've been there for so long. Robert Crawford: She's like, like family to me, JImmy Lea: you know? Oh yeah, of course. Well, there's the family you're born to and there's a family you choose and these family, that becomes part of your choice. JImmy Lea: Isn't that nice? Oh, it really is. It really is. That's what like the shops say, oh, we treat you like family. All right, hold on. Time out. Is that the family you like or the family you tolerate? Robert Crawford: It's like talking to a technician. What would you do if it was your car? We know what the technician would do. Robert Crawford: Bubble gum JImmy Lea: and bailing. Wire. I just get yeah. That's right. Oh, that's funny. So, so did your buddy, did you and your buddy work together in the shop for a while or did he go a different route? Robert Crawford: We did. In 1984, when I started there, me and him worked there for like six, eight years. But then he wanted to do something different, so he became a volunteer fireman and then a truck driver. Robert Crawford: It was never really in his makeup to run the business, and it was pretty evident. And now we're still friends. Matter of fact, he brought his mom by the shop the other day, so everything's cool there. But it's, he, it wasn't, that's great. Not everybody can do this. JImmy Lea: Oh, Robert. No, that's so true. So what was one of the biggest challenges you faced going from turning a wrench to being a manager, going from a manager to being an owner? JImmy Lea: What does that transition look like for you, Robert? Robert Crawford: I would say that it really was beneficial for the man I worked for, because he led me through that process. I was rebuilding transmissions next to him and when customers would come in. There was people that wanted to talk to Peewee, and there was people that would come in and I'd go talk to them. Robert Crawford: So as he phased outta working there and riding around in the motor home, I gently took over the everyday operations. In 20 2002, his wife said, Peewee, I'm going to the house. She was retiring, so that was when my wife came in and started running the office, and then we started doing computers and all that stuff. Robert Crawford: So it was a slow transition, but it was a good transition. I always had my backup plan. You know, some people have that. What would Jesus do? Bracelet I had, what would Mr. Peewee do? What would boss my Rosser do if he was here? And I just kind of went through problems like that. What would Rosser do in this situation? Robert Crawford: Because I'd been with him at that time, 20 years. So I just kind of did what I thought he would do. And eventually I didn't ask that anymore. I just did it. JImmy Lea: And then it became what would Robert do? Robert Crawford: Yeah. And now I'm hoping my son Ryan says, what would dad do? JImmy Lea: Is your boy in the business? Robert Crawford: Yeah. You saw him at the A STA con the con the conference there. JImmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Robert Crawford: My son Ryan runs the counter for us. He's the service advisor, so he's the primary and I'm kind of the floating back and forth. Sometimes I get a part, sometimes I'm helping outside. Sometimes I do some shop stuff. Had a 67 Torino gt and honestly, the new technicians don't know the old stuff, so they call me the old guy and I work on some of the old stuff, so I bu that motor, that was kind of fun. JImmy Lea: Oh, I'll bet that was fun. Especially a Grand Torino. Holy smokes. That's a beautiful car. So much fun. Well, I'm glad your son's in the business. Now the legacy lives on right back to Mr. Peewee is r and n. So I thought RNN was Robert and your wife. Robert Crawford: I tease people and say, it's Robert and no other than Cher, but it was r and n and it, and if you look on our website, we've got a little bio there. Robert Crawford: It was John Rosser. And Caldwell Norris, they worked back in the fifties at the Ford dealership, so that when they left the dealership and started their own, Ross also liked working on cars. Norris liked work, liked selling cars, and it was a used car dealer way back in the day. And eventually he bought his partner out and we just got to working on cars only. Robert Crawford: So I don't want sell used cars. God bless everybody who does. JImmy Lea: Oh yeah, my uncle did it in Vegas. I think he turned 19, 20 cars a month. He had a very small lot buy here, pay here type of deal. Robert Crawford: Yeah, JImmy Lea: I think he repossessed 80% of the cars that he sold. Robert Crawford: Yeah. That's a whole nother business in my opinion. Robert Crawford: It's hard to mix those JImmy Lea: two. Oh, it's, it is very hard to mix those two. I totally agree. And the repair business that you've been in is phenomenal. It's awesome. I applaud you for going from a master tech into the management, from management into ownership. How, what do, what is what, how, what do you do to pull yourself out of the mix of working in the business? JImmy Lea: Now you are working on the Grand Torino and so you're the old guy. You're the only one that could work on these cars. Some of 'em. Some of 'em, yeah. What do you do to be able to pull yourself out to work on the business? Not in the business. Robert Crawford: I just wish hats right. We all wear a lot of hats. It's really just an easy transmission for me. Robert Crawford: For me to walk out the service counter and go out there and advise someone on how to fix something, it just, you know, you do what you do. Yeah, just like, it's like my wife being at the shop and working in the office and then coming home and cooking supper. It is just what we do. It's really not right. Robert Crawford: It's not a challenge for me. Matter of fact, it's probably more of a challenge for me to be the owner because I don't like numbers. I didn't like doing school math and I don't like doing it now. It's kinda like in our church group when they have you do a small group and they give you homework. Robert Crawford: I don't wanna do homework anymore, but there is a lot of that, you know? So you have to deal with that. She's great with the books. She does the office and I do the work in the shop and deal with that stuff, and she pays the bills at work and I pay the bills at home. So we split it up that way. But it's just, oh, there you go. Robert Crawford: That's all occurrence. To go from one job to the other. JImmy Lea: I love it. I love it. And you know, Robert when those numbers become dollars and dollars become ability to buy and it gives you those freedom and those choices, the numbers become a little bit more fun than right. One plus one equals two. JImmy Lea: Yeah I completely agree. Algebra, geometry, calculus, trigonomic it's all. Relative once that number now is a dollar and a dollar in your bank and a soldier working for you, it becomes much more fun to work them numbers. Robert Crawford: Right. JImmy Lea: So do you say your wife does all the books, she does the numbers for the shop. JImmy Lea: Do you keep your pulse on that? You know what's happening? Robert Crawford: Yeah. We, me and my son both do a lot of the legwork, like she does QuickBooks, so you know, everything. Nowadays we use tech metric, it all goes through the software. It's all love it, it all gets popped into QuickBooks, so she handles that part of it. Robert Crawford: But there's a lot that we do at the service desk, making sure our GP per hour is right, making sure our gross profits right. You know, all those numbers are important and although I don't like them it's part of it. It's what you've gotta do. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Robert Crawford: We had Rick White as a coach for quite a while, and he gave us a lot of good tools, good Excel spreadsheets. Robert Crawford: Oh, that's a spooky word. Excel spreadsheets. But it's a tool. It helps us do what we gotta do. You can work all day long, but if you don't make a dollar, well good. Is it? So you've gotta have those numbers in place. JImmy Lea: Yeah, so true. So what's one of those key performance indicators for you in your mind that really dials in, that you are profitable, functioning, efficient? JImmy Lea: What is one of those KPIs for you, Robert, that you look at as that indicator? Robert Crawford: To me, gross profit hours is the important one. That's the one that I look at the most because if you look at, you can have your atec doing an oil change. If you're not making any money of that, your gross profit hours is like 60, 60, $70 there. Robert Crawford: If you have your ctech who's doing the sweeping up a little bit, doing some things here, you're teaching him the business you're doing, walking 'em through some brake jobs. He does oil change. You're making some money on your oil changes, and the way we buy our oil in bulk, we have a pro program with Valvoline where we're buying product at a really good price so we can afford to mark it up and actually make some money. Robert Crawford: We're making money off oil changes, but. Again, it's all about the gross profit per hour to me. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Gross profit dollars per hour. That's phenomenal. That's what we keep Robert Crawford: our, that's the pulse we keep our finger on. There's a lot of other numbers out there. Car counts and an average ro, but you know, you take average ro, that means nothing. Robert Crawford: If you do 20 oil changes and then you do five engines, it means nothing. You got tickets that are seven, six grand. You got tickets that are. $90. It's all about the mix of things. At the end of the day, you wanna make sure you're making a net profit, right? That's what, that's everybody's favorite number of the net. JImmy Lea: Yes, that's exactly it. So after your gross do gross dollars per hour, how much do we take home? And I understand why you're looking at the gross profit per hour, on the daily, on the hourly, the net. You gotta control the expenses. You gotta control, and that's not something you need to look at hourly. JImmy Lea: That's something that you look at and say, wait a second, why are we spending so much here? Why are we spending so much here? We can cut back. We can, we don't need this software, we don't need this power tool. We don't need this subscription. Robert Crawford: And that's a good plug for tech metric because we switched over from the other program we had vein program and three other sister programs. Robert Crawford: And although Tetric might not be the most beautiful DBI out there, it's a DBI, it gets the job done. And. To me, when you give customers paperwork, it's kinda like the church bulletin. Nobody reads that thing. They're all asking the preacher, when are we gonna do this? Did you read the church bulletin? Well, you give, it's all the bullet. Robert Crawford: Your customers, you give them all these dvs and all these beautiful colors, they don't even look at the thing. They still come back and say, you know, what do we need to do next? So, yeah, you gotta have something to hand out, something to back up what you're showing them. But it's all about, you know. The Tech Metric program does everything we needed to do. Robert Crawford: Now, we did add another program just this week, it's called Detect Auto. The maintenance work that people let go is astronomical, and that's what I really want to do away with. I want at least give the customer the opportunity to say, your transition hasn't been servicing 150,000 miles. If you want it to live, we really need to do something with that. Robert Crawford: The Detect auto program that we just implemented is taking care of that part. Now we can at least offer it. It's all about, JImmy Lea: yes, Robert Crawford: about you don't wanna do 750 oil units in the week. You want to have car count, but you wanna maximize what's going on with those cars. You have, not just staying busy, but staying productive. Robert Crawford: GP per hour equals net profit. JImmy Lea: Yes. Yes. And in fact, that's one of the. The key award ceremony that we do with the institute is we put out the awards based on the net profit. It's not about how much you sold, it's about how much did you take home, how much did you put in the bank. So we have a hundred thousand dollars club, a $200,000, $300,000 club. JImmy Lea: We even have one person in our $1 million net profit club. God Robert Crawford: bless JImmy Lea: him. Robert Crawford: Right. It this hard to blue. That's hard to do. Yeah. You could have the most efficient work structure in the shop, and then when it goes to QuickBooks, we're paying our employee a hundred percent of the Blue Cross Blue Shield. That's a big wp, not a lot of places to do that. Robert Crawford: Then we're doing 401k and then we're doing vacation times, so we're supplying uniforms. There's a lot of overhead and you really gotta trim that fat to keep those numbers down so you can have something. And then when you do have the net profit, what are you doing with that? Are you taking it home and buying a beach house and everybody hates you for it? Robert Crawford: Or are you investing the back of the business? There are certain things that happen at the shop that are cash things and you know, you try to take care of your employees, so you always wanna share the wealth with them because they're how you got it. You can't do it without them. Yeah. JImmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. JImmy Lea: So, and that goes to the training that you're doing, taking everybody to asta, the hotels, the food, the travel, the. The training that's there and paying for all the expenses that go along with it, it's gotta be worked into your business model. And so ultimately, who's paying for it? The client, the customer and why are they paying for it? JImmy Lea: Why are they happy to pay for it? Because they know that by them bringing their car to you, they're getting the best. They're getting the best service. They're getting the best knowledge. They're getting the best repairs because they know that you are the one that's out there getting trained. You're not just sitting back only fixing The Grand Torino's. Robert Crawford: Right. JImmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Congrats. So you've been at this one location since 84. How many bays, how many techs, what's the footprint look like today? Robert Crawford: We have eight bays that have lifts. One of those is a 16,000 pound scissor lift for the alignment rack. We have another one of those eight bays that has an 18,000 pound bend pack. Robert Crawford: So we get box trucks coming in from our airer guys. We can raise line up to take care of 'em. We have another two bays that we can pull cars in that can be on the ground. There's not a lift there. Technician wise, we have two ATECs. We have a new guy that's bringing on board, I'm gonna call him a c and a half really great guy. Robert Crawford: Has a good attitude, good worth ethic. He just hasn't got the experience. He's actually right out of the Marine Corps, which is great. He's a good guy and he has structure. Yeah. And he really is, he's gonna go somewhere in this business. So that's what it looks like. And of course we've got the waiting area and bathrooms and all that stuff, but we've got enough parking lot to fit 25 cars. Robert Crawford: So. What's really unique about our place is when the wreckers come in, we have them back, the cars up the hill, and then one nick mechanic gets in, it pops in a neutral and rolls it right in the vein. I don't have to push anything, so that's always, that's worked out really well for us. JImmy Lea: Oh, Robert, that's great that's such a great way of doing it. JImmy Lea: That's perfect, man. I'm too old to be pushing cars, man. Oh, amen, brother. Oh, so three techs, eight, nine Bays. Eight bays with lifts. Yes. Eight bays with lifts. Oh man, that's great. And 25 cars. So that's just in the parking lot. 25 cars. That doesn't mean what you can fit inside the building too. Right. Robert Crawford: Well, we can park, we have 25 parking spaces out in the parking lot. Robert Crawford: And I know that, 'cause Elia told me that's what I could do out there. So that's what we did. Inside of course, you know, it's like nowadays you gotta be careful of the neighborhood. You know, people will break into stuff and tear things up. So when we have cars in our building and we're going off of the weekend or like the long train, the training seminar. Robert Crawford: We pull everything in. We have put cars on the rack and pulled another one under it if we have to. So we get the nice cars in. Anything that will run, we bring in every night just to keep everything safe, you know? But yeah, we can pack 'em in there pretty good. JImmy Lea: Oh, that's pretty good, Robert. That's awesome. JImmy Lea: Yeah, because that allows you to have a little bit more flexibility. Where performance place, he's got like three and a half acres, so there's plenty of room to put cars that, that they're surrounded with moth balls. You know, this car's been here for four years. Anyways. Well, you gotta keep, well that, Robert Crawford: you gotta keep the junk outta the way though. Robert Crawford: You know, you don't want stuff sitting there for three years. JImmy Lea: Yeah, no, that's true. He had to come to his dad, so he was 40 years. It took him 40 years to be able to buy the shop from his dad. 'cause you know, they just never could get anything down on paper. Couldn't agree, blah, da. Dad, really, this is your business. JImmy Lea: What do you want to do? And dad would never make a decision. Finally did. So he bought it after 40 plus years. And dad in the back four bays. So they had 16 bays up front. 'cause it just expand. The last four bays, they finally said, Hey dad, take all your cars and take all your dead bodies. The rv, the boat, right? JImmy Lea: We're gonna put it out in the yard. You can come see it anytime you want, but this is now production. Right. So that's what he is doing. Well, and congrats to you for what you've got the 25, the technicians, the lifts. What does the future look like for you? What is the future of RNN Otto, you've got your son there working with you now as well. JImmy Lea: What does the next five years, 10 years look like? If we were to chop that up? Robert Crawford: Well, if I listen to my wife, she wants to retire at 62, so she's got another two years to do the office, and then I'm probably gonna have to find someone to take care of that part of it. I'm 59 and I really don't wanna work till I'm 80 years old. Robert Crawford: I like the work, but I don't like it enough to be there that long. So I'd like to retire at 65. I really don't know what the future holds for retirement. Do I sell it? Do I keep it and let my son run it? Gives my guys my mechanics. A place to stay. It's always spooky when you sell something 'cause you don't know how your workers are gonna be treated and how that's gonna be. Robert Crawford: And honestly, they are my friends. I was at one guy's house this weekend moving some split wood with the tractor for, you know, so we do things with each other. We're friends and workers. I honestly don't know. I'm leaving it to him to decide how all that works out. I'll do what I can. Robert Crawford: Yeah. Business running and keep it profitable. And if Christian brothers wants to come down and buy me out, or if, you know, if my son decides he wants to take it over or like we did with my boss, he rode around in the motor home. We paid him a paycheck. Yeah. Rent check. I'm not sure what the future holds. Robert Crawford: I'm open. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and if your son is open for the opportunity, if he looks at it and says, Hey, you know what? There's a great opportunity here for me to buy dad out and put dad and mom out on a motor home and they can go fishing, they can sit on the beach, they can go to the mountains whatever you want to go, and he pays you the rent. JImmy Lea: Right. That's a great opportunity. So depending on where you're going, what you're doing, yeah, there's lots of opportunities. There's lots of advice out there. Just make sure you're getting the right advice. Right. And maybe the right advice is to sell it to Christian brothers. We'll see. You never know. JImmy Lea: We'll see. That's Robert Crawford: right. JImmy Lea: That I don't ever, Robert Crawford: I try not to make promises and I try not to make big decisions that you really can't control a lot of things. You know, some things are gonna happen and you gotta go with the flow. You wanna be prepared, do what you can do the legwork. But we'll see how it works out. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Yep. I've heard it said that if you if you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. So if you've got a plan and God comes in and says, wait a second, Robert, we're gonna do a little bit this way. We're gonna do a little bit this way. I know that you had a plan, but there's just a little deviation from it. Robert Crawford: Right. JImmy Lea: Better to have a plan than to have no plan whatsoever. So, yeah, if you're, I tell you what Robert Crawford: I JImmy Lea: don't Robert Crawford: wanna do, I don't wanna rent the building up to somebody. Someone comes in and they rent up your equipment, they wear it out, they dump all in the parking lot, then they walk away, and now you're responsible for all that mess, digging up the parking lot, EPA fines. Robert Crawford: So I, I would close it down and sell it for a warehouse before I would do a rental situation like that. I've seen that happen too many times. JImmy Lea: Oh, Robert, you are so right. You're right on the ball. I've seen many shop owners sell their business and three years later, four years later, they're back in the shop running the business again and basically having to fix everything that had been broken over the last three years. JImmy Lea: So, yeah I agree with you. Once you find your spot, once you find your ability. Have an agreement that there's a buyout on the property as well. 'cause you're not gonna retain ownership for rent. Robert Crawford: Yeah. The whole shebang or nothing. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So would you ever expand, Robert, would you ever expand and own a second, a third of fourth location, or just optimize the one. Robert Crawford: I kind of tease my wife a lot when we're driving around. I'll say, Hey, that looks like going to number three. She, and she disagrees with me, like, you know, with a few declaratives. I really think for me personally, running the one is enough. We don't have a grandiose of lifestyle. We're our, everything we have is paid for. Robert Crawford: The business is paid for, the land is paid for, the billing's paid for, and we don't really require a lot to be happy. We don't really go into the MEChA, into the material things. I got a new truck. I got some guns, and you know, things that I play with she's happy to read a book when we go to the beach. Robert Crawford: She wants to sit in the swing and read a book, and I sure don't wanna lay out on the sand and become a lobster. So, you know, to us, you know, running one business is enough, we don't require the additional income. You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. And then the challenge is with just one business, low along the strain of two you gotta have some really good people in place to run two businesses and you not be there. Robert Crawford: It's, you know, when I can go off for a week and my son run the place and make decisions that I'm not there. I would never complain if he made a decision. He has to have that freedom. But to have somebody running your business 24 7 and you are not there to, to you come back in when it's on fire, you know, you come back to fix the problems, that would be hard for me to deal with. Robert Crawford: I'm good with just running one, doing well with it. You know, it's paying us, it's paying our salaries, it's paying our guys salaries. We're good where we're at. You know, no desires for a second JImmy Lea: building. Oh, amen. Amen. So in the definition of success, you have a very successful shop. It provides for all your wants and all your needs, and everything's paid for. JImmy Lea: You're good to go. You could leave for a week. Your son's in charge. He makes the decisions. You come back, Hey, this was good. Perhaps in the future with this decision, we wanna consider this, and this as well. Maybe we wanna go around a bump instead of straight up and over. JImmy Lea: You never know, but I applaud your reigning in and giving freedom to your son in those situations and letting him make those decisions. That's pretty awesome. A lot of people can't do that. You know? Robert Crawford: It's a hard thing to walk away from. It's a hard thing to step back and let people do. Robert Crawford: But you have to, otherwise you have to be there 24 7. And you gotta, if you wanna freedom, you gotta give a little freedom to them too, to make those decisions. And to make those mistakes and learn from 'em. Because that's how we all are, isn't it? JImmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, it is how we learn. We learn more from our mistakes than we do our successes. JImmy Lea: And you know, with that in mind, Robert, I'm gonna ask you a question. What has been one of your biggest failures that you personally. Witnessed or were involved in, and it turned around to be one of your greatest successes. You learn the most from this lesson. What's one of those things that you've learned the most from a failure that is now a guidepost or a lamp or a lighthouse in your life that really helps to guide you? Robert Crawford: Well. Back. I don't remember when it was or how many years ago it was, but we bought like an exhaust franchise, and I won't mention the name of it. We got some good equipment and we got a lot of inventory, but it never really blossomed into anything custom exhaust nowadays. This has been years, like 15, 20 years ago. Robert Crawford: And we got this exhaust franchise and it never did anything. Now we still have the exhaust pipe bender. Matter of fact, my, one of my technicians is using it when I left today to come home for this podcast, so we still have the equipment, but that was $30,000. And back then, ouch, 30,000 was 50,000 now, you know, and it never was profitable. Robert Crawford: So if I had to glean anything from that mistake, I would be. Check the market, find out what the market will stand, find out what the opportunities are before you go plopping that much cash down. Because the problem with that is, is it's kind of like some of the coaching people that you have out there. Robert Crawford: You give them a chunk of money and you're paying Wells Fargo for the lease on that chunk of money and you can't back off because you've already paid the money at. Now you gotta buy the lease. It was the same thing with this. I couldn't exactly send the muffler machine back. I had to pay what I had to pay. Robert Crawford: It was done, right? So you learn these lessons and you next time you're a little bit more apprehensive for you throw a chunk of money at something. You really just learn how to do the homework, check out the numbers, feel the market. And nowadays things are so much better because you've got so many sources. Robert Crawford: You've got all these groups. Auto owners groups. You've got the Facebook people, you've got business coaches. There's really not a whole lot of reasons to make a lot of stupid mistakes nowadays because there's so many people you can ask and say, what do y'all think about this? I was on a a Thursday night round table meeting with Rick White from 180 Biz, and there was about 20 people there, and there was one guy talking about how he was gonna. Robert Crawford: Make this particular business move and do something else and we're all like, no, that's not what you want to do, man. You're making a mistake doing this. Yeah. And I thought it was great that he had, although he may not have liked what he was hearing, right. At least he was hearing it. He had people in his corner that really didn't know him from Adam's House Cap, but were willing to give you them. Robert Crawford: The benefit of their experience is try to guide somebody they didn't even know to do better. Don't make the mistake that I made. So I thought that was great. JImmy Lea: Man, that is sound advice, especially when you're not necessarily saying, Hey, don't do that. You're saying have you considered this? JImmy Lea: Have you considered this Once upon a time when I did this is the mistakes I made. Robert Crawford: Yeah. JImmy Lea: Yeah. And that's my $17,000 lesson I learned was, get it in writing. Get it in writing. Get it in writing. No matter how many verbal conversations you have, if it's not in writing, they will forget. Yep. Yep. So true. JImmy Lea: Well, so Robert, if you were to have a magic wand and change anything in this industry, the automotive aftermarket, what's one of those things that you would like to change in this market? Robert Crawford: I would probably say that the wand is actually being waived as we speak, because I'll tell you what, I've seen a lot of. It's like Mike Rowe with the blue collar worker move. We're seeing now where a lot of families are realizing you don't have to be a doctor, you don't have to be a lawyer, you don't have to be a dental hygienist. Robert Crawford: Nothing wrong with those, but we need people that will use their hands to do things. We need people to build houses. We need someone to flip a hamburger for now and then, and we definitely need mechanics and I'm seeing a lot of the trades. Coming back to life, for lack of a better term. They're getting more attention. Robert Crawford: A lot of the tr a lot of the high schools are going back to a a hands-on approach. You've got some of the local colleges, wake Tech has got a great program. Hendricks, I think has opened a whole wing out there, and they're training apprentices. I really think instead of sitting in the classroom atmosphere, they've gotta get those kids out there and get 'em in shops so they can, this is just my opinion. Robert Crawford: You can learn more in a shop in a month than you're gonna learn in a classroom in two years. I've seen the trade schools and what comes out of them when they, alls they did was the trade school class and they have a little book sense, but they don't really have a lot of common usable knowledge. So I think it's a mixture of trade school and also being in a shop environment and learning. Robert Crawford: Just be in there, just learning and hearing what's going on. I think that's the magic wand that I'd wave. Let's speed that process up. Get these things moving along a little faster. 'cause everybody knows we need mechanics, we need technicians. Yeah. Things are getting automated. These cars are gonna drive themselves, but they're not gonna fix themselves. JImmy Lea: Oh, they don't. They don't. And we got 70,000 technicians a year leaving the business. Only 30,000 a year coming into the business. And those 30,000 that come in after the first year, half of 'em are gone. Just like you're saying, Mike Rowe with his sweat pledge, you're gonna work, you're gonna work hard, you're gonna sweat, you're gonna do what's right. JImmy Lea: You're gonna do what's right. The first time I love his sweat pledge. I love what he's doing and really shining a light on the trade industry. My daughter, when she went into hair school, within that first week of school, they had them hands on cutting hair. That's what we need in the automotive industry as well, not just the theoretical. JImmy Lea: 'cause there's schools out there. You don't get to touch hair for six months and it's a one year program. They come out, they still are afraid of touching anybody. But my daughter was in a class and they were boom, they were right into it. So we have a granddaughter, it does make difference. Robert Crawford: Afraid, same thing. Robert Crawford: She was too scared to cut hair, but you gotta make the move. And, you know, a lot of shop owners have to get above that fear too. You know, back a couple years ago, I'm gonna say about three years ago, maybe four years ago, we had the apprentice program in North Carolina come alive. It had been there forever, but the IGO at the time brought it to life and we had a technician that was going to a local community college here and had certain days he came and worked with us. Robert Crawford: Now we were paying him that time, 12, $13 an hour to sweep the floor and shadow our mechanics. And unfortunately, after three years, he actually left us and went to a dealership. So you didn't have that risk, but at least there's people going into the field. That we can have. Yeah, you might get somebody that you train up and they may go somewhere else, but they're in the pool and now you can, they might bump someone out of the dealership, and the dealership guy might come to you. Robert Crawford: I don't know how that's gonna work. We'll find out. But you know, it's like when you said you're guys to training, you're scared they might get poached, you know? Well, Rick White has this thing, he calls golden handcuffs. You gotta treat your people good. So they wanna stay. It's all about making the work environment, like I said about our guys. Robert Crawford: We're buddies, we're pals, we're friends. You know, we eat subs together, we bowl together. Sometimes we have a good time at the convention. You know, you gotta make it where they want to be there. 'cause if yeah, if you don't wanna be there and they don't wanna be there, someone's gonna leave. JImmy Lea: Yeah. No, it's so true. JImmy Lea: Yeah. Rick does a great job in coaching and training with the shop owners. Yeah, he's phenomenal. We love working together and the golden handcuffs, you're right. If you're not treating your people well, they're gonna go and listen. You know, dial it back to your marine. He may be one that wants to own a business. JImmy Lea: So some would say, are you gonna train your competition? Sure. Today, he's not your competition. Today. He is your employee and he has a desire to own a business. You enroll him in every business, every free business thing that you possibly can. The community college has business classes, the Chamber of Commerce does. JImmy Lea: YouTube has them. The institute has a library full of different business videos that can really help anybody that wants to start an automotive repair business. You help him to be the best business owner he can be. 'cause there's two outcomes that comes from this. One. He loves it. He embraces it, and he runs with it. JImmy Lea: And in 3, 4, 5 years, whatever the scenario is. He went, goes out and starts his own business, and you've got a friend in the business, somebody that you can lock arms with and really work together. Or two, he comes back to you and says, Hey Robert, thank you so much. I appreciate you investing all this into me for the business side of it. JImmy Lea: But what I really discovered is I like working on cars. I wanna work on cars. I'm gonna be your best employee. I'm gonna work on cars, and you're never gonna have any comebacks for me, and I'm gonna dig in Robert Crawford: win-win. Yep. JImmy Lea: It's a win-win. It's a win-win. You've invested in your employee, you discovered where they really want it to be in helping them to discover their own path, their own trail. JImmy Lea: So Robert, I applaud you for that, brother. Robert Crawford: I, competition to me is a kind of a strange word because, just because as a garage where you talk about where we're at on the freeway, you know? Right. There's a probably, I'm gonna say probably 10 shops within a four mile radius around me. There's a garage door there. Robert Crawford: They're selling used tires. They're doing the monkey business, they're doing alignments and they're doing oil changes. But when you set yourself apart and do the quality work and you do it businesslike, there's gonna be some people that want that bottom dollar price. But there's also gonna be some people that want to deal with the professional business that's gonna have paperwork and warranties have insurance to take care of the stuff. Robert Crawford: So they're really not your competition. They're really not. JImmy Lea: Yeah. No, they're really not. I had a friend in Santa Cruz, California, he would send people down the street to Bob's garage, Dave's Auto that's the same address. Three different businesses were in that same address, and he would send people down to them. JImmy Lea: 'cause they were looking for the deals. They, it was all are driven. And those businesses put themselves out of business because they were catering to that type of business. His was a business that really. Involve the the client. It's a client that wants to know their vehicles fixed right and done right. JImmy Lea: And has a warranty and a guarantee. And you're gonna pay more for that than if you just want Robert Crawford: price only. Yeah. We had a call just today that a customer called and wanted us to break a bolt loose, then they're gonna drive off with the car, but the mold were loose. JImmy Lea: There's those people out there, you know? JImmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No, that is interesting. Interesting that was the request. Robert Crawford: Yeah. JImmy Lea: Well, Robert, it is been a pleasure talking with you today. Thank you very much. I appreciate your insights into the business, the industry, where it's come from, and yeah, our future is bright. I love that we have an apprentice program. JImmy Lea: Do you have any apprentice at your shop right Robert Crawford: now? At the present time? We don't. The guy that we just started out of the Marines, I would probably consider him an apprentice just because he's really at the bottom of the knowledge base. He has such a good drive and such a good work ethic, he's gonna do great. Robert Crawford: And really, that's what you wanna see in the apprentices. You don't wanna just have a body that's going to school, that's coming there just to milk the clock. If you don't see that spark, that interest, you're just wasting your time in theirs. And there's a lot of people that go to the community colleges just because mommy and dad would make them go to school. Robert Crawford: You know, you're gonna go to college if you're in here, but if they're not doing anything with that and you're not doing anything with that person. You're just spinning your wheels, wasting time, so just find the next one. JImmy Lea: Yep. Amen, brother. Thank you so much, Robert. I really appreciate it, man. Robert Crawford: Yes sir. JImmy Lea: Yep. JImmy Lea: We'll talk to you guys soon. Robert Crawford: Have a good one