184. Roy Moran – Growth in Movements

In this episode, we continue our series drawing from our training with Roy Moran and Aila Tasse. In this conversation, Roy shares the importance of focusing on the generators in disciple-making movements and reflects on several key shifts in his thinking and practice. He begins by telling parts of his own story and how he became involved in movements around the world. Key Shifts in Roy’s Thinking & Practice Conversion vs. Discovery & Disciple-MakingRoy highlights the difference between aiming for a moment of conversion versus facilitating discovery through disciple-making. He notes that the “line of faith” concept has shaped much of Western thinking, yet it’s not something we actually see in the Gospels. Discovery Bible Studies—often led by those who aren’t yet followers of Jesus—play a crucial role here. Faith in Function, Not FormInstead of focusing on structures or models, Roy urges us to trust the function of disciple-making. When we start with making disciples, ekklesia—church as Jesus intended—naturally emerges. Groups Over IndividualsMovements multiply through groups, not isolated individuals. Catalysts fuel multiplication, while what Roy calls “accidental diminishers” slow it down. Marketers vs. Terrorists (Revolutionaries)Roy draws a striking analogy: marketers are loud and central, while revolutionaries are subtle, quiet, and operate at the edges, identifying people who are already open to change. They are also needs-focused. He warns that our well-intended spirituality can sometimes get in the way of our humanness—and that curiosity, especially in the West, has become a lost art. Learning Designers vs. Content ProvidersRoy re-examines what we mean by the biblical gift of teaching. Is it merely telling? Research shows that questions, not statements, facilitate genuine learning. Movements thrive when we design ways for people to discover rather than receive information passively. Leading People Toward vs. Leading AwayCatalytic leaders create processes where “it can’t happen without me, but it can’t depend on me.” This becomes a litmus test for our methods:Can people do this themselves, and can they pass it on? Focus on the Generators, Not the Generations Roy emphasizes that one of our common mistakes is focusing on generations (how many steps down the line) instead of generators—the multipliers who spark ongoing reproduction. When we cultivate generators, the generations take care of themselves. He illustrates this with the pandemic’s “R number,” which showed how quickly a virus could spread. Christianity, he suggests, can sometimes inoculate people from the very thing it’s meant to spread—we become addicted to visible success and move on when things don’t seem to be working. But movements don’t emerge from quick wins.They are formed through long periods of small, consistent acts of obedience, which eventually become visible. Roy calls us back to staying faithful to the basics of disciple-making—and to keeping our eyes on the generators.