185 - Ask Me Anything Webinar The Lie We Tell Ourselves “I’ll Start When I’m Ready”

185 -Ask Me Anything Webinar The Lie We Tell Ourselves “I’ll Start When I’m Ready” January 07, 2026 - 00:57:29   Show Summary: Wayne Marshall and Cecil Bullard explain why waiting to feel ready keeps shop owners stuck and why coaching should be viewed as an investment with real returns. They share how coaching can quickly reduce stress, improve cash flow, and create more time and quality of life. They also cover technician pay plans that balance a steady base with incentives for quality, training, and production. The episode closes with what it takes to scale into multiple locations through strong processes, training, and teams, plus the reminder that being busy does not always mean being profitable.   Host(s): Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute   Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Expenses versus investments and focusing on return [00:01:03] – Why waiting until ready delays real business growth [00:02:23] – Common excuses shop owners use to avoid coaching [00:03:23] – Coaching quickly reduces stress and improves cash flow [00:05:04] – Technician pay plans built on stability and performance [00:06:37] – Incentives tied to quality training and production [00:10:43] – Preparing systems and people for multiple shop growth [00:15:29] – Why two shops are harder than one [00:24:50] – Busy shops are not always profitable shops [00:48:30] – Training and mentoring build long term success  In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at [email protected], and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7Cr4H7HOVlI Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  Want to learn more? Click Here Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here See The Institute's events list: Click Here Want access to our online classes? Click Here ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at [email protected].   Episode Transcript: Wayne Marshall: Welcome to our session today on Ask V Anything. I'm Wayne Marshall here along with Cecil Bullard. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about expense versus investment. As we all know, there's many things that we do that we invest in, or we have different expenses, but in anything you do, you also wanna be looking at what you're getting for that return on investment and how it works. Wayne Marshall: Expenses. They're a one time thing. You spend your money, you get it, you get the product, you get the service, and then there's other things you do that have a long-term return on that, and it's an investment that can build and continue to help your business as you move forward. So we're excited to get some of your questions. Wayne Marshall: As we stated at the beginning, it's ask me Anything. Please submit those things. We would love to have this conversation, help share the knowledge we have. Cecil, you wanna share anything off the top? Cecil Bullard: I think what we're, at least, what we're starting with here is this this comment that we get a lot of times from shop owners that want to improve their businesses that. Cecil Bullard: May maybe struggling, and I know it's difficult to look at your business and go, man, I'm, I don't have any money. Three, three types of shop owners that we in general come to coaching. We have the people that are they were in a different industry and they're used to coaching. They understand coaching, they know the value of coaching, and they come in and they say, we just need a coach. Cecil Bullard: And so what we've done is we've researched the. The automotive industry, and we believe that you guys are the top of the list. So we would like coaching. Those are the easiest people to sell. And frankly, they're also the easiest ones to probably work with in many cases. Because they're just, they're used to having someone there to help them. Cecil Bullard: Know what they don't know. We also get the largest group is probably shop owners who've been in business for some period of time who have struggled. This idea that I wake up every morning and I say to myself, oh my gosh, I hope that we have enough cars and I hope we have enough work. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I hope that, at the end of the year when I actually have to file my taxes, I'm in the. Black instead of the red. And that's probably the largest portion. And from that group, we get this, we often get this idea that I can't afford coaching or I can't, yeah. I, or I think I heard it in the last couple of weeks. Cecil Bullard: I heard, I think I've heard it two or three times. I wanna hire a manager first before I get into coaching. Or I want to hire a service advisor first, or I want to whatever, meet this Wayne Marshall: sure Cecil Bullard: thing. And what I tell people, to me, that's one of the most frustrating comments because those people never get coaching. Wayne Marshall: Okay. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: They just don't. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: And it's another excuse not to get serious about your business and get your business. And I also think that a lot of people out there think, oh my gosh, there's so much. It's gonna take so much time, so much energy, and so much effort. I will tell you that for most of the people that we have coached. Cecil Bullard: That within a few sessions we've got it where it's oh, the pressure's off. There's more money in the bank. Now. There are, the job seems to be getting easier for me. And so they're not putting in the kind of time, energy, and effort that they have blown this out to be Wayne Marshall: correct. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And then why would I do coaching? What's the point? The point is I don't know what, I don't know. Yep. So I have I was telling Wayne here earlier my, I worked for my dad. He had a shop and he would not support financially classes, coaching anything. He just thought we'll figure it out. Cecil Bullard: And when I was started early in my service advisor career and my manager career, part of this. I went and found coaches and paid for 'em myself. And those thousands of dollars that I spent at the time have literally turned into millions of dollars Wayne Marshall: In Cecil Bullard: my increased Wayne Marshall: revenue And profitability. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Over my life. Sure. And opportunity. And I think it also has increased lifespan. Yeah, because Wayne Marshall: yes, Cecil Bullard: you know when you're worried about paying the bills or you're, I've just gotta stay late and I know my wife wants me home and I'd like to go to my son's ball game, but I gotta get this car fixed 'cause I gotta pay the bills. Cecil Bullard: That's the stress. All of that, I think leads to early, early death, or if not death at least. So much time and energy is spent on that frustration that could be spent in other places in your life. Wayne Marshall: So I see we got a question that's been submitted from Yvette. Thank you. I know we've talked about some of this. Wayne Marshall: I know you're gonna have a little more insight than I, but one of the things that I would ask that you. Expand on. I guess when it comes to guaranteed pay, it really comes down to what kind of a tech is it? A c tech we know is not gonna be as efficient as a B or an A. So when you talk about guarantee, it could depend on what level of attack and his skills. Wayne Marshall: And the abilities. So expand a little bit on that, if you would. Cecil. Cecil Bullard: Yvette, thanks for the question. Yes. There are multiple different ways that. People have been paid in the automotive industry. Right now, the two main ways are flat rate, meaning, I do an hour's worth of work. I get an hour's worth of pay, right? Cecil Bullard: And then there's Wayne Marshall: flag, Cecil Bullard: Flag. No, that's flag. That would be flag. Yeah, that's right. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: No piece work. Peace. And then there's salary or or hourly, meaning, I'm here for an hour, I get paid x, right? Or for the week, I'm here for the week and I get paid X for the week. Cecil Bullard: I don't believe that either one are the best. Frankly. I think flat rate puts the risk Wayne Marshall: she's asking specifically an yes. Cecil Bullard: It's got an, yeah. Cecil Bullard: And an atex. I would still build the same kind of play, pay plan for Nat Tech that I would for a ctec. It would just have different numbers in it. We want to take about 60% of the pay. Cecil Bullard: What we need to understand is what can I afford to pay that tech? And if you've done coaching and classes and sat through financial stuff, you know that I can afford to pay 20% of sales. To my technicians or I can for afford to pay about 36 to 38% of my labor, effective labor rate to my tech technician. Cecil Bullard: Correct. Okay. And so we, once we know that I have an effective labor rate of. $150 an hour and I can afford to pay, let's say 40%. So that gives me $60 an hour to pay that technician. And that's gotta include the FICA and the feta and the workers' comp and all that stuff. Yeah. Fully Wayne Marshall: loaded. Yep. Cecil Bullard: And so what I would say is you go to Maslow, ma Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and you say people need to understand that. Cecil Bullard: That their base needs are met. So I can't have someone working for me that worries about whether or not they can pay rent or there's food in their refrigerator, right? So I want to take about 60 to 70% of their pay, and I want to pay for that position, and I wanna pay that to them, either hourly or salary. Cecil Bullard: This you get 60%. Then I want to take the other 40% and I want to pay it more in a flat rate kind of way. Meaning as you perform, as you do the things that I want you to do, you're gonna get this extra 40%. So for instance, let's say that I had a total of $1,800 after I took out Fcan Food and Workers' Comp, that I could pay somebody per week. Cecil Bullard: I would probably take somewhere around 1200 of that and create a base. Either an hourly or a salaried base. And then I would take the other 600 and I would say, what do I want from that? A tech? Heck, I want quality of work. It's hard. To define that and you need to have things that you can really define. Cecil Bullard: So I have to define quality of work, right? And for me, quality of work is no comebacks or a few and I don't believe in no comebacks 'cause it's not possible to be perfect. But if my tech does less than 1% warranty in a defined time period, then I'm gonna pay them per hour. They produce two bucks an hour extra. Cecil Bullard: Extra. And then I also want. Education. 'cause I think that people that are constantly educating themselves are more forward focused. They're more they're more thoughtful. They're learning, they're growing. I need people like that because the world changes and the industry changes. Cecil Bullard: And we usually put some form of eight hours in a quarter. 12 hours in a quarter as a training thing. Then they could get another $2 an hour for the hours they produce. And then I also need production. So if I have a tech in a bay that bay can produce 50,000 a month and probably should. Cecil Bullard: And if I have a tech producing 20,000 outta that bay, then I have a tech that's, 40% productive, which is costing me a lot of money if I'm paying them any kind of base salary. And it's costing me money because that bay is not doing work that brings money in Wayne Marshall: need throughput. Cecil Bullard: So I want production and I usually start my bonuses around 35 hours in a week because we're using a labor matrix to 20 to 30% on top of the hours. Cecil Bullard: To pay for the paperwork and the moving cars and the test drives and things like that. And so what I believe is that if I have a technician in my shop and we have work for them, that, and I'm using a 25% labor matrix on the labor that I can have a tech that can do 10 hours a. Okay. Cecil Bullard: And of actual work that they can actually sell and bill Wayne Marshall: hours. Cecil Bullard: I was, I find it really funny 'cause you talk to techs and I love the texts. You put a bunch of techs in a room and you go, okay. How many of you have beat book time routinely, right? Oh, every, all, every hand. I'm the fastest guy in the world. Cecil Bullard: And yet we know from the numbers, from the real numbers, from the hundreds of shops that we work with thousands. We've worked with that. The techs are usually 70, 80, 90% productive unless you're really working on your systems, processes, et cetera. And I love the fact that the techs are like, I can, I'm very productive, but ultimately. Cecil Bullard: Unless we really do some energy and effort into managing that they're just not. Yeah. And and so 35 hours is usually where I start my small bonus for what you produce, and then 40 and 45. Because when you get over 40, then there's more profit in the labor. Wayne Marshall: Correct. Cecil Bullard: So I can pay the technician more as they're doing 40, 42, 45 hours. Cecil Bullard: And so they can earn more, the shop can earn more. And the customer's still very happy and satisfied. Wayne Marshall: Thank you Taylor. I see we got another question that's come in. What are the biggest problems with owners taking the leap into multis shop ownership Co. What can we do to be better prepared? Wayne Marshall: I know the standard answer is can you leave your shop for X amount of time and run it the same as if you're there? Is the standard answer I hear. What are more specific issues you guys have seen? I'll start this one. As you look at what it takes, it starts with having good processes and good procedures. Wayne Marshall: And if you've got everything well, organized so that when you get to a second, third, or a multis shop location, it's easy to take what you're doing at the first shop, apply it to the second, make sure you have the systems processes in place so that. Everybody knows and understands, and if you got the good things there that people can see and understand of what to execute and what the bar of expectation is, it, it makes everything else go very simple and very easy. Wayne Marshall: And we all know, and I always use, when I talk to someone about this and we start talking about what's next, I start off with the very simple thing. We know that nothing happens in a shop until that phone rings. Or someone drives into the lot and you have an appointment, and the first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna talk to 'em, ask 'em what the problem is, and you're gonna start the inspection process. Wayne Marshall: And if you've got something that's well done and well organized that. Between your service writer knows what questions to ask, that gives the right information to the tech so the tech can do the right diagnostic that needs to be done to give the right suggestions. That comes back to the service writer who then knows how to put together a good estimate and how to then present that estimate to the customer that at the end of the day. Wayne Marshall: Gives conversion into an accepted work and all, and you always find delayed maintenance or other things that can turns into additional work. If we can get those things done, that everything starts well and smooth and you've got a good model in shop one, it makes it real easy to go to shop two, shop three and beyond now. Wayne Marshall: It also gets very important, do we got the right people in the right place on the bus? Everybody's heard about the different scenarios of, and that's where you gotta sit here and start asking the question that they understand what's being asked of them and how to execute and execute at a high level with consistency. Wayne Marshall: But that all comes back to training and coming up with all the right things. When I talk about. People who are go going in this direction and they're adding people and they're trying to make sure everything's well, I says, it's really a pretty simple thing. There's only three things that can happen when you're managing people and as you're going through the process. Wayne Marshall: If something goes wrong, first thing, do we have the right processes and procedures in place? And if we say, oh, we don't, we missed this, so let's update, fine, tune, fix, and then retrain. But if you answer the first question that, no, we had all the right things. Then the second question is. Do we have the right training? Wayne Marshall: Do everybody understand what needs to be done? Oh, we did it. Tom didn't know enough. We need to refresh 'em. We need to go back through it. But if you say yes again, no. We had the right procedure. We did all the right training. The only thing you have left is the person. Do we have the right person in the right position? Wayne Marshall: And sometimes as hard as it is, as you start to scale, you start to say, maybe I don't have the right person that can take us to the next level. So the best advice I give is around these type of things start at the very fundamental things. Do we even have the right intakes? Can we even just get the car in and get it going? Wayne Marshall: That we can replicate this process over and over as we look at multiples? Cecil Bullard: I think it's also, you really have to talk about team. 'cause that's really what it is, right? Do I have a Wayne Marshall: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: Do I have a team of people that can carry out. The job and get the job done efficiently and profitably and in a timely way. Cecil Bullard: Correct. And do I have individuals that can do their job and know how to do their job? And I think most shops that, that I'm gonna go get a second location. I've seen this happen so many times. They have good people here, but they're doing everything. Based on I'm the owner and I'm telling people what to do and I'm managing I'll mention Lucas. Cecil Bullard: Lucas Underwood. Lucas has struggled a bit because. When he's at the shop, he knows everything intuitively, right? So he can look at what's going on and make the adjustments in the shop for a much more productive, much more profitable business. The problem is that Lucas can't be in two locations at once. Cecil Bullard: And that's the same thing with every owner. So have I taught my people what their job is and then how to do their job efficiently, productively and profitably. And if I have those people, it also doesn't mean that I'm gonna have those people at the next place, right? No, so true. And we would, don't get me wrong, if you have a really strong team. Cecil Bullard: And you can go take two weeks off and you come back in the shop, there's no major problems, right? Whatever major problem happened while you were gone, somebody took care of it because they, no one understand how that needs to be done. I'm not necessary here. Now I'm gonna have a second location. Cecil Bullard: I don't want to take all the good people from there and move to the second location because I'm gonna struggle in my first location. I'm building a team of people that know and understand their job and the job of the business, how it all fits together. And if I do that well and as a coach, or a consultant or whatever you wanna call me trainer, I'd love to see a nice process manual right? Cecil Bullard: All formed out because I'd like to know that the job is well defined, because I've gotta take that and try to recreate that over here. And I've got whatever's here. Which is the other, Cecil Bullard: The other thing, understand what you're buying as, as best as you can. And even though you might think you understand what you're buying, you may not really understand what you're buying. Cecil Bullard: One of the guys bought a shop and paid too much for it, and there was a lot of money being run off the books and that's why they paid too much for it. And I. I told him don't buy it, but he did anyway. And when we got the shop, we had the employees there, but we come to find out all of the employees were being paid under the table. Cecil Bullard: We can't do that. I'm a professional business person. I'm not willing to go to prison. Et cetera, et cetera. So I can't do that. How do you go to employees and say, I have to start taking taxes and FICA and feta and workers' comp and other stuff outta your pay and have them be happy. Cecil Bullard: So all of a sudden we've pretty much lost and now we're building a whole new team. Probably a good thing, but that, do I have the energy, the effort, the the money, the bandwidth to, to do that? And if I have a team here that really knows and understands their job, then I can go here and spend time building this team. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But if I, now, if I have two teams that don't really know and understand their job or people on those teams that don't know and understand their job. It's gonna be much more difficult. And I will tell you, and I think anybody that's got multiple shops and we have lots of clients that have multiple shops, I think the largest we have right now is 26 or 28 shops. Cecil Bullard: The, that having two shops. Is three times harder than having one shop. And having three shops is probably four times harder than having one shop. And having four shops is easier than having two or three shops. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Because at that point you've worked some of the bugs out. You're getting some middle management, get scalability you can't afford, you're getting scalability. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: So when do I know well. I don't know, probably half or more of the people that, that go to shop. Number two is shop number three. Really probably aren't ready. The one nice thing about shop owners and is that we're. We're insane. We're crazy. We will do what it takes, which means if I've gotta work, 85 hours this week to, to make it work I will do that. Cecil Bullard: And I think that's a plus in some ways, but I think it's a negative in other ways because we rely on ourselves to do the stuff where we can't expand our business if that's who we are. Wayne Marshall: Simple, something I learned. In my business past life, simple question. I would always ask staff as we were growing and scaling and changing, they would come up and I go and we want to do it because there's a serving heart that you have as an owner and as you're building you, you just want to answer the question. Wayne Marshall: You want to help 'em out. But to really build their knowledge, I would always stop and I'd go what do you think we should do? Tell me how you wanna solve this problem, how do you wanna go about it? And when you start listening to 'em, it's a simple test to know how much they really have studied the manuals and the processes. Wayne Marshall: But you're gonna see that they can start answering that they really do have knowledge of the content and what we're doing. But the second is that it's an opportunity to give them affirmation and saying, perfect, that's exactly what I would've done too. And then they go away. And pretty soon some of those questions that were. Wayne Marshall: Taking up a lot of your time and the question as it said earlier about being out of the office and Can I leave, can I not? Now you feel comfortable because you've tested knowledge by just a simple question of what do you think we should do? How do you think we should go about that? It's a way to see where they're at, what they got and what they need to be doing. Cecil Bullard: And I've seen it over and again where the employees become hobbled. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: To use a horse term. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And because. The, I was talk, I talk about electricity, where does electricity go? It's to the fastest path to ground. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Every single time. Least resistance, no matter what the path of least resistance. Wayne Marshall: Yep. Cecil Bullard: If you become the path of least resistance for your employees, then they're gonna come to you for all the answers, which makes you feel great. Don't get me wrong, I love it when employee comes to me and says, Hey Cecil, what? What do we do? And I can give them the answer and they walk me happy. Cecil Bullard: And I'm like I still got it. I'm still smart, but. Am I hobbling that employee by giving them the answer? Do I? Don't I really wanna teach people how to come up with their own answers and how to make great decisions? Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And the more I do that in my business, the more likely I'll be ready for shop number two or shop number three, because I'm not the answer man in my company. Cecil Bullard: We had a big company meeting yesterday. We brought some of our staffing. We're talking about the future. It's what we do at this time of year and I'm sitting in that meeting and, I've got. Lots of years of experience. I've founded the company, blah, blah, blah. And there's a lot of things that I could just go, okay, that's what we're gonna do. Cecil Bullard: Or blah, blah. It, just I wanna be the answer guy. I know I wanna have the answers. I Wayne Marshall: know. Cecil Bullard: And it's really hard to sit there and go, huh okay, what do you think? Or, you but you have to do that. Otherwise you limit your company. I said it yesterday in our meeting, a company, a million dollar company runs a specific way. Cecil Bullard: You cannot treat a, $5 million company the same way you treat a million dollar company. And a 10 million. And a 10 million won't run like a 5 million. Nope. Nope. And I would say it's the same thing. You can't, when you have one shop, you treat that in a specific way and you can be there. Cecil Bullard: To answer questions. And so you can hobble your employees, you can hobble your team, you can make them relying on you. But when you go to two shops, you can't always be there. So you can't run two shops. Like you run one shop, you might get away with it. Frankly, it's gonna probably kill you timewise and energy wise but when you get three, no way. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so you can't run a multi shop operation the same way you run a single shop operation. Wayne Marshall: That's why they say, the only difference from a company that does this much in business to this much in business to the even higher number of business dollars is just structure in its organization. Wayne Marshall: We get into, as as we, going back to some of the things we talked about, expense, investment, everything that's going on. We get many clients we talk to and they're like, man, I was so busy. We were just slammed. We're this and that. But then you look at the data and then you look at was it the right kind of business? Wayne Marshall: Sure you were busy, but were you doing the right things? Were you getting structured correctly that allows you to build off this, just as we talked earlier with a multi shop location that you want to build. So just 'cause you're busy. Doesn't mean you're always gonna be profitable, doesn't mean your financials are gonna look the way you want it to look. Wayne Marshall: It's about building it out, getting it structured, getting it organized so that you can take those next steps. But also understanding and as we talk about with many clients, also know and understand what are the key KPIs that you want to be looking at so that you can truly see are my trending up. Am I trending flat or maybe, and hopefully not trending negative. Wayne Marshall: And it's one thing to have a bad day or a bad week, it's another thing to have multiple bad weeks turns into a bad month and a second, and then all of a sudden you're looking at your balance sheet and you're looking at your p and ls and you're losing money. Cecil Bullard: And in this industry we, we have this idea that busy equals success. Cecil Bullard: So lots of cars in the bay Yeah. Means we're successful. Lot in the parking Cecil Bullard: lot. Wait a minute, the guy on the street's got all these cars in his base. Doesn't mean anything. Is he making money? Is are we creating happy clients that are gonna come back to us? Are we profitable? Had a conversation this morning with one of my clients that I was I work with and he's they got a healthy average repair order. Cecil Bullard: They're booked out five days. And he's I, we didn't quite hit the numbers we need. Okay. So we have either, we have a problem in this particular case of car count, we have good average repair order. And we have good profit margin. And so now we wanna look at car count and how do we bring in two more cars a day? Cecil Bullard: But if we're not making profit on the jobs we're doing or if we're not making enough profit on the jobs we're doing, then why would I want to bring more cars in? Wayne Marshall: Exactly. Cecil Bullard: So busy is not. Busy is not necessarily success, and I don't really want to be busy. I wanna be consistent. Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: I wanna have cons. Cecil Bullard: I wanna be consistently booked out five to seven days and I wanna be consistent. I want to consistently have 13 cars a day because I have four technicians and I wanna consistently do great inspections and sell great work to my clients. And I don't wanna be busy is not. Cecil Bullard: Necessarily better Wayne Marshall: if you're not. Yeah you've gotta bring in the efficiency numbers. There's so many different variables and I've seen, I had one just here this week also. Because we're into a new year. We're reflecting, we're doing a review on the 2025 numbers. And you know when you sit there and there was about 500 hours. Wayne Marshall: That were just lost through some inefficiencies and other things, and as I pointed out to the owner and we started talking about it, it's like, what could you have done with an extra 500 hours billable that got. Through the cracks and it was a bigger shop, big numbers, but still that's big dollars. Wayne Marshall: We sat down and by the time we got through that was about $80,000 that was left on the table. That turns into real money. Significant money. Yeah. That makes a difference. Cecil Bullard: Our conversation today was, okay, we do have a good average per but could we move it up a little? Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I remember having a conversation with my staff and saying. Cecil Bullard: What else could we do for our clients? And we decided that we were gonna replace their FOB batteries once a year. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And we did it for free as part of the service as far as labor, but we got, I don't, another $25 for batteries, right? Yeah. And so it moved the average repair order up Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And created more productivity and more profitability out of the company. Yeah. And it's these kind of conversations that. I don't know if I need to be in the middle of them or I even should, but. I want my team having those conversations, what do we do? And also I have a client that yesterday I was dealing with and he's oh my gosh, we did, they did 260,000 when we started with us, probably about one 30. Cecil Bullard: So we more than doubled, but supposedly on their p and l they lost 13 grand. Yeah. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, there's no way that it, and we had a $35,000 property tax payment that they expensed all at once. Wayne Marshall: Got it. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And I'm looking through the p understand your numbers. Cecil Bullard: 'cause he's paranoid. He's oh my gosh. And no, dude, this was your property tax bill. It's it's not part of the Wayne Marshall: but you know that, that's where when we look at financials, it's a good reminder. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: When you get a one-time expense like that, that you're paying. Don't put it as part of your net operating income because it's a one-time deal, so it's still part of an expense, but put it below into extraordinary expense. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: It still shows that it's a negative on the net for the month, but when you look at from an operation standpoint, you still had a profitable month, you still did really well. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: As a shop. There's, this is where working with your bookkeeper, your accountant, talking about some of the different things because it can skew it and you miss this, that, no, I'm still doing well because if I didn't have this, which was an extraordinary expense that you've gotta put it on your financials, just don't put it as part of your operation. Wayne Marshall: Or if you do wanna put it at as an operation, then amortize it over the year or over a time period of what that payment was to cover so it stays flat and even, and it doesn't affect your net Cecil Bullard: operating. If we amortized it, we correctly we earn 12% now. I don't wanna earn 12%, I don't wanna earn 20. I know. Cecil Bullard: So there's still work to do. Wayne Marshall: I know, Cecil Bullard: but it's not, we lost. 20%. Exactly. Yeah. Understand your finances. I want to, I wanna step backward. Don't have another question at the moment. If you do have a question, please, yes. Put it on. 'cause we're here to answer 'em. But I want to, I wanna go backward to this. Cecil Bullard: Is it an expense? Yes. Coaching is an expense. You're gonna pay for that, but. If that's going to get you an extra 10,000, if that's gonna make your company more profitable, if that's going to increase your productivity, give you the opportunities to put a team together and build a really functional team Yes. Cecil Bullard: So that you can expand into number two, number three, and become I don't know. I think I'm necessary here still, right? I think I add a lot. But I'm not necessary to the day-to-day operation. And so as I said, the investment that I've made in training and coaching, I still buy books like crazy and Kent drives me nuts. Cecil Bullard: He's you bought another book? Yeah. I wanna I, I wanna learn new stuff. That has just it's worth millions. It's been worth millions, and it's been worth being able to spend time and do great things with my family and for my family that I don't know that I could have done that if I had done business the way my father had done. Cecil Bullard: Business, Wayne Marshall: When I talk to shop owners and we talk about do I do this, do I invest in that coaching, training and the things that come around it, and the biggest asset. That you have in your business are your people and yourself. And I always tell 'em, it's yeah, you wanna invest in that asset. Wayne Marshall: But I also tell 'em, I said, if you're ever gonna bet on somebody, bet on yourself. So if you can make yourself better, stronger, and you can work in a different way. That is gonna give you a return on investment. Obviously this in a financial way, but then, as I've also used the analogy, it's we go to the doctor, I wanna be healthy, I wanna live long. Wayne Marshall: I wanna do these things, doctor. I says, eat, pet, or exercise more, do all the things. So I join a gym, it's an expense. But if I take advantage of the gym, then the gym membership, and I get myself healthier, that's gonna give me better quality of life to go out and do and enjoy the outdoors. Maybe give me longevity of life to have greater experiences with my grandkids and my kids, and whatever you want to do as you get to that point in life. Wayne Marshall: So it's, Cecil Bullard: I think it's also, Wayne Marshall: it just gives back and back. Cecil Bullard: I think it's also value of life. Yes. Because I just don't want to like, go through this existence, which is Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Short enough. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And get to the end and go, okay. Yeah. I lived a long time, but I didn't have quality of life, the Wayne Marshall: value and quality Cecil Bullard: during that time. Cecil Bullard: And so the investment in the gym, if you never go to the gym. It isn't an investment, it's an expense. You wasted your money, but Wayne Marshall: yeah, that's Cecil Bullard: what I meant. But if you go to the gym and you take care of yourself, then inevitably you will live longer and you'll have better quality of life. I think coaching, it's not necessarily about money. Cecil Bullard: We have the third type of people that we have come to us. They got plenty of money. Their shop is profitable, but they don't have any time, or they don't have the quality of life they want. Or they have a child that is gonna come take over the business that they want to have quality of life. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so they come to coaching and they ask for coaching so that they can learn those types of things. So for me, coaching in part is about profit. 'cause I want to be profitable. 'cause when you have money in the bank. It's easier. You can take more risk, you can do more things. You're be more calculated, more at peace, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: But also for me, it's as much about quality of life and being able to say, I got a wild hair up my fanny and went to Vegas last week. I had a couple of days, didn't have much to do, and I was like, I'm gonna go hang out in Vegas. It's warmer. And, being able to do that and know that everything else is gonna happen the way it's supposed to happen. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I think it's in, for me, it's invaluable. And I think I'm gonna live a lot longer because of it. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. E Myth. Great book. And per what? Oh, you read a lot of books. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. E Myth is in my top 10. There's a, there's another book I'm I'm currently reading. Something hospitality un unbelievable. Wayne Marshall: Unexpected hospi. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: And unexpected hospitality. Cecil Bullard: No, it's, no, Wayne Marshall: that's not yet. Cecil Bullard: It's not, but it's, Wayne Marshall: I know the book you about, and I apologize to the people out there, but I can't Cecil Bullard: of Wayne Marshall: any other, Cecil Bullard: There's probably, in my top ten's, a top 10 for me, and the E-Myth is everything about system, process, running the business, understanding it. Cecil Bullard: I don't know that we in the automotive industry have a really good. Financial book for our business because we need to look at our business financially a little different than, the hairdresser down the street or the grocery store. And I'm not sure there's a, that great book, but there's a lot of good financial books out there. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. To be had that will help you understand that or. There's some great coaches and coaching companies that can help you with that. Wayne Marshall: We one of the, I, and this has been probably 10 years ago, I read this book and it might even be older than this, but it's just simply the title is Finish and. Wayne Marshall: The reason I like this book, and I still reference it still to this day, is we as people, especially at the beginning of the new year, everybody starts off with New Year's resolution. Okay, this year I'm gonna get in shape, I'm going to eat better, I'm gonna do this, whatever it is. We have it for our businesses, we have it for our personal lives, so on and so forth. Wayne Marshall: But the thing about when you start looking about finish, it's about, as you set goals, how do you get to the end? And how do you finish? And one of the things that it brought up, and I thought it was very, 'cause using exercise and getting in shape is an easy one. It's okay, I'm gonna run. I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna get in better shape, I'm gonna do this. Wayne Marshall: But the question we never ask ourselves, do I even like running? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. What's the end? Where do I want, where do I, what's the end result for me? Is it just about running or, Wayne Marshall: so for me, I can tell you I hate running and I used to do it when I was younger, but I would, it would drop off 'cause I hate running. Wayne Marshall: It wasn't, some people love to go out and jog and they love to run. It's their therapy. Me. It wasn't, it was a job, it was a chore. So how do you think I finished? I didn't, I dropped off. I didn't complete my goals, went off to the side. And it's a good book that just starts to really work through is that if I wanna be this and this, do I wanna read, do I even like reading business books as an example? Wayne Marshall: Some people just like Cecil Devourer and just love getting them. I like it too, but I know other people I've talked to who's yeah, no, I don't wanna read all those books. So how else do I do it? Maybe it's a podcast, maybe it's whatever it is. If there's a place you want to go, decide what fits you first, then forcing you to do something you don't enjoy. Wayne Marshall: 'cause you'll never finish the goal. Cecil Bullard: Mark Buckingham has a book out. It's now Consider Your Strengths, I think is the title. It talks about educational theory in a way. Cecil Bullard: In the past, if you were really good at math, but you were terrible at English. They wanted to spend a lot of time with you in English, right? Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And this book really says if you're really good at certain things, then those are the things you should be doing, and you should be finding people. Yes. And surrounding yourself with other people in your life or in your company that are good at the things that you are not good at and makes Wayne Marshall: a great team. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we certainly have that, a lot of that here, which by the way uc, personalities make make us depersonalize a little nuts. But. It that is, I think it's important to say, these are the thi. Not only are these the thi this is the result I want, but these are the different ways that I could get there, and these are the ways that I'm going to enjoy. Cecil Bullard: Getting there. And there's always gonna be some pain involved. If you've gotta lose weight, it's, there's gonna be some pain involved. You're not gonna probably eat as much. You're gonna exercise a little more. You're gonna change some of your habits. You want to be more successful in your business. Cecil Bullard: There's gonna be a little pain involved. You're gonna have to learn some things that you currently don't know. And that can be Wayne Marshall: adapt a little. Cecil Bullard: It can be painful. Wayne Marshall: It can. Cecil Bullard: But yeah. I think it's a fantastic book. And I think. The E-Myth, obviously it's in my top 10. I'm not sure that now consider your strengths would be in my top 10, but might be in my top 50. Cecil Bullard: Understanding what you do well and then doing it well and bringing other people in for the things that you don't do well. That's a hell of an investment. Wayne Marshall: It, it is. I always, we both play sports and, grew up on those things, and it was in team scenarios, and there was roles I could fill very well in the football field or basketball court. Wayne Marshall: If coach asked me to go guard the seven foot center, I'd give it my best, but my odds of success went way down. So it's also in those scenarios of understanding your team. Put him in the best position of success. That's why I like to talk about sports analogies when I talk to customers and clients. Yeah, no, and I, you get it on the team. Cecil Bullard: I think sometimes you gotta guard the seven foot center. Because that's it. You're the, you're it, right? Yeah. And I did that. Sometimes you do. And it wasn't as successful. But we got through the game, Wayne Marshall: I always loved telling the story that when I played football growing up, yeah, I'd go up against a guy across the line. Wayne Marshall: He was bigger, stronger, but at least he knew I was there 'cause I was gonna just beat on him as much as I could. So I. I will let you read this Cecil Bullard: one. Bill Murphy. Thank you for the question. Bill, do you recommend first training on profitable services? IE alignments breaks after giving them the knowledge putting a spiff together to increase bay and tech profitability. Cecil Bullard: As long as you have the right tools to perform those services with the most productive ways, alignment machines can complete a 20 minute alignment compared to a machine that takes 40 to 50 minutes to complete. Invest in your equipment that will deliver them the best. I would tell you that I think our thought process in this particular area is flawed. Cecil Bullard: I need to make everything in my shop profitable, so I understand that I might have a guy that's really great on alignments who can do a 20 minute alignment and we can charge $170 for whatever. And are. Gross profit on that is gonna be pretty good. But I think if you start looking at gross profit on jobs, you're gonna find that your alignment jobs are not necessarily the most profitable jobs that you're doing. Cecil Bullard: I'm not saying they're not profitable. And that's not the point I'm making. I love the comment that I get now we're our least profitable jobs are diagnostics. Whoa. Wait a minute. I'm using my most expensive guy and my most expensive equipment and I'm the guy I'm gonna pay the most money. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And yet we're not profitable on that job because we're not estimating it properly. We're not accounting for the time properly, et cetera. And why not? Why are we not profitable as profitable when we do diagnostics, as when we do alignments? It's a management function. It's not Wayne Marshall: right. Cecil Bullard: It's not well, the customer refuses to pay for diag. We have lots of shops that earn, just as much money on diagnostics as they do on alignments. Yeah. And more frankly. Yes. And yes, I agree with you. If I've got somebody in my shop who's really good on alignments I probably don't want 'em out doing diagnostics if they're not good on diagnostics. Cecil Bullard: For me, one of the, one of the cardinal rules of dispatch is never give a technician a job they're not qualified for, because what happens is three days later, the tech is frustrated. The owner of the car is frustrated and the service advisor, shop manager, whatever, is frustrated. We, everybody's frustrated and nobody's made any money. Wayne Marshall: Yep, Cecil Bullard: yep. And the customer's unhappy. So I don't, that's not what I'm talking about. I certainly don't want to dispatch jobs to people, but I, in my business, when I set my business up, I wanna make sure that when we are doing diag, that there's a profitability that I want to, and can and should get out of that I don't wanna do the job. Cecil Bullard: If it's not gonna be profitable, then go do it somewhere else. I have to make every job in my business be profitable. And we know that some jobs are gonna be more profitable, there's gonna be more gross profit per hour and certain jobs than there are others. Throw a set of tires on in, 35 minutes and you're, you may make four or $500 and do a break job in 35 minutes, and you might make $200, depending on how you're estimating, et cetera. Cecil Bullard: And it is a blend. That's the other factor here. I've got to take care of my client because I'm fearful, right? I'm very fearful my whole life I've been fearful Yeah. That somebody will try somebody else and they'll go I like him more than I like Cecil. And, or, they treated me better over here. Cecil Bullard: I feel better. It's closer to my house, whatever. And so I don't want my client going somewhere else. For anything, frankly, once you're here and you love us I wanna supply what you need, right? Wayne Marshall: Amen. Cecil Bullard: And I want to do that profitably in my company, if at all possible, which also means that I've got an investment in tools and education, technical training with my people so that they know what to do and how to do the job and what to do when. Cecil Bullard: I don't know what to do. Yeah. I, that's a question I usually ask in an interview. You've done everything, you've, you went through the book, you read everything. You did everything it told you, and you got to the end and the car's still not fixed. Now what do you do? Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And what I don't want to hear is, oh I'll spend another three days. Working on this car, I'll get it figured out. No. What's the next step? Oh, Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna call my friends and ask anybody, does anybody know a, I don't know, a Chrysler specialist on this stuff? Yeah, I can weeks, not a week goes by that I don't get a call or a message from one of our clients that says, Hey, we've got this price learner shop. Cecil Bullard: We've got this Toyota, we've got this. This Mercedes, and we're having a struggle. Does anybody know of a really great Mercedes? Here's the best Mercedes guy I know, right? Yeah. Let's call that guy and have a conversation. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because I don't want my tech digging in and spending three days on it that we can't get paid for. Cecil Bullard: So I think. As the business changes and AI's gonna change us a bit the technology that we have is changing our industry. Yeah. The fact that we have these private equity companies coming in trying to buy up the industry is changing our business. That we have to get smarter and better about how we do business and how we're profitable. Cecil Bullard: And as we do that, we create more value and we create more life. It that great question. Certainly if I have a a really good guy doing certain jobs I want to try to give them, but, every once in a while I probably have somebody else that needs to learn alignments. That might take two hours to do that alignment, but every once in a while I might. Need to funnel that alignment to that guy with the right mentor trainer in place to help him learn how to do those alignments and take 20 minutes instead of four hours. Wayne Marshall: Gotta play the game. It's like sports. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Wayne Marshall: Practice. But until you do it, Cecil Bullard: sometimes you gotta put your bench on to, to Wayne Marshall: yeah. Cecil Bullard: Give you bench, see what they experience, and see what they see, what they have got. Wayne Marshall: See what they can do. A little bit of that stress test. Is it, Cecil Bullard: I used to bring, I used to bring service managers in when I was growing my, my, my shops. Cecil Bullard: And I would train 'em for two weeks. I would, or they'd have a trainer Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Cecil Bullard: mentor that literally, they were side by side for two weeks and then I'd call in and I'd just, the, in the morning I'd say, oh, geez, I'm really sorry. Something came up. I won't be in. So now the manager's there by himself. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I'd come in around one o'clock, hey, and I didn't do anything. Sat home, Wayne Marshall: just, Cecil Bullard: Just chilled out. You wanna see what would, because you can't kill my business in four hours, it is not gonna happen. And I remember one time I came in and the new service advisor manager was so excited. Cecil Bullard: He is I sold this engine for $16,000 and this is back when engines were. Seven or eight. And I was like, wow, that's great. And the customer bought it. Yeah. And I looked at the estimate and they had tripled the cost of the engine. So the engine itself, we paid, I dunno, three grand for, yeah. And they sold it for 12. Cecil Bullard: And I was like, oh, that's, ah, that's really great. Then I called the lady up that, that, that bought it and I said, good news. He overpriced the engine because he's relatively new. Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So it's gonna cost you about six grand less. And she was happy and I get to see what they can do. Cecil Bullard: We have to stress test our people something. Yes. And see what happens. Wayne Marshall: Yes. Cecil Bullard: And I don't even know, I think when you're stress testing, you don't even want to be there. You really want. Them to have to rely on their own knowledge and decision making. And you never do that in a place where it's gonna, greatly. Cecil Bullard: Where it could ruin your business. But yeah, I love to, I said Wayne Marshall: four hours. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, four hours. Yeah. Wayne Marshall: You find out what you got, Cecil Bullard: you pick up the pieces. Then another two weeks of training, then I would take a day off. Yeah. And then another two weeks of training and that's I love that. I love. I like putting people in positions where they need to think and they need to come up with solutions because they may not solve the problem the way that I would solve the problem, but if they can solve the problem and get to the same result and conclusion, and I think that's another thing about the difference between being a really good leader manager. Cecil Bullard: And or a really good, I'm a great sales guy or I'm a great tech, is that I'm able to help other people learn how to solve problems themselves. And I'm looking at results and not at how they do the job. My dad was teaching me how to pull a radiator and he crawled under the car and put up. A bucket under it and pulled the pitcock. Cecil Bullard: And then we stood there for 25 minutes and and then the next time I had to do a radiator, I was like, I'm not standing here for 25 minutes. So I put the bucket under, I pulled the lower radiator hose and my dad was like, you can't do it that way. You, that's not how we do it. We use the pitcock. Cecil Bullard: And I was like, not me buddy. And by the way, I got the job done 25 minutes faster than you did, I think sometimes we need to be open to that in initiative. Are we getting the right result, the same result? And if we haven't defined the results we want, that might be one of the problems that we have. Cecil Bullard: 'cause our team doesn't know what that is. Wayne Marshall: I know I shared this on a previous short little lessons I was putting out on leadership, and one of the things I say is, sometimes we need to be listening and really working with our team because not all the best answers and solutions come from the front office, and we sometimes have a tendency to think that we gotta do. Wayne Marshall: And if we listen and work with our team, you're gonna get great answers, great suggestions, and great things that can be done. Coming from the shop floor. Just as we talk about team, have those communications, build those things Cecil Bullard: well and what, when we talk about having a great team, part of that is about communication and people won't plan a team where they don't feel like they have value or they can have input. Cecil Bullard: They just won't, over time they'll completely lose interest and they won't be involved. And so we talk about having these communications and having team meetings and blah, blah, blah. And the owner's nobody will participate. Yeah, if you're gonna knock 'em every time they have an idea, if you're gonna say no or no, we gotta do it my way, or Wayne Marshall: they Cecil Bullard: quit Wayne Marshall: talking. Cecil Bullard: I, I would tell you that we need to sometimes actually do something that we know. Failed 10 years ago. We did it 10 years ago and it failed. Sometimes we need to let our team try it again because sometimes it works now. And even if it doesn't, they at least learn the lesson that it didn't, isn't gonna work. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Instead of saying, no, we won't do that. 'cause I tried it 10 years ago. Wayne Marshall: Bill, thank you for our last question of the day. What time do you dedicate in training programs, mentorship for each employee, monthly, front and back shop staff? Is there a hard rule to follow? And any recommendations we have? Wayne Marshall: I would tell you there is no hard rule to follow. Anything you do is gonna be better than doing nothing. And I think every employee's gonna be a little different. And I know when I had my staff, I would try to when I was at a different company and the old company I owned before I joined the institute. Wayne Marshall: I would always encourage them to at least have a one hour every other week time with somebody in the industry or in a business that could help them with some of their own growth. I always tried to do it with someone that was outside and we all know people, and I know when I looked at some of the different people on my staff, I ended up talking to some of our different clients even who would then come back and I said, one of the guy happened to be a senior VP at Advance Auto, and I said, would you be willing to do this? And this is a program I wanna run. He goes, oh my God, I would love to give back a little to your company. So the biggest thing is just do something. Don't do nothing. Whatever you're gonna do, help do what needs to be done. Cecil Bullard: I think too, you as part of the way that we pay technicians and or service size, literally anybody in the company. Part of that is we're trying to incentivize education, training and Right. And knowledge building. And in most of the pay plans that I would put together for shops, the technicians will have an eight to 12 hour a quarter training, meaning they're probably sitting in eight to 12 hour worth of training in any given quarter. Cecil Bullard: Given 48 hours a year. A, a good week's worth of really good training and keeps them knowledgeable and growing and et cetera. Even for service advisors in their pay plans, I want to have some training as part of, if you get this training, if you. Learn new things, you're gonna get paid more money. Cecil Bullard: 'cause I can do that. Wayne Marshall: You're making yourself more valuable to the company. Cecil Bullard: And I also say when you're talking about training and mentoring you're almost talking about two different things, right? Yes. If you're mentoring, you're, there's a training aspect to it. Cecil Bullard: But training in and of itself doesn't necessarily include mentoring. If I hired a brand new, a tech that's, 55 years old and been in the industry for 30 years they're still gonna come in my company and have a mentor for a minimum of 30 days. Someone that they can go to ask questions, someone's gonna show 'em, where the bathroom is, where's the toilet paper if it'ss not in the bathroom, how do you have things? Cecil Bullard: How do you clock in and out? Just the yes. The thing, oh, that's a machine I've never used. Can you show me how to use that machine? I wanna have someone that's their go-to and I used part of the pay that I would pay the employee, so I didn't pay 'em quite as much as I would until they were done with mentoring. Cecil Bullard: So I always withheld two to $4 of their initial pay per hour and said, when you sign off on these things as sign off. Yeah. With your mentor, the two of you signed it off, then that money is currently going to the mentor. It now comes to you. There's your 30 day raise. Your 90 day raise because you've shown that you can do these things. Cecil Bullard: And so I bel I believe that we should have mentoring and I believe that we should have a mentoring program and plan that's well thought out in our companies. For those positions, especially if we want to have two shops, three shops, four shops, or Oh Wayne Marshall: my god, Cecil Bullard: Build the, Wayne Marshall: very much so Cecil Bullard: The multi shop thing. Cecil Bullard: So yeah. Wayne Marshall: Guys, we want to thank and girls, sorry folks. We want to thank you for joining us today for Ask Us Anything. Look forward to seeing you again in the near future. Keep the questions coming. As you saw, if you've got something that we didn't address or you think of something after the fact, go ahead and email us at info at we are the institute.com. Wayne Marshall: We'd be happy to follow up, share anything we can that can help and make this a better industry as we tell everybody we want to do. Thank you. Cecil Bullard: Thank you for your time.