You really need to focus on the positives and you really need to accept your situation as well because what I see in a lot of my clients is that they really love complaining and they really love blaming the circumstances for what's happening to them. If you won't take action, nothing will happen and this is what should motivate you. Elena, how are you? Yes, I'm very good.
Thank you. How are you? Very good. Pleasure to have you here.
So what are we going to be talking about today? Okay, so today I think we're going to be emphasizing the importance of self-improvement and basically growing your confidence in order to achieve better results in both entrepreneurship and personal life because what happens is that like I see this very often in my work is that people with low self-esteem like just get caught up in negative feedback loops of action and failure and as a result they can't achieve the results that they want. What is your job? Okay, so I have I do have an interdisciplinary background and I basically I started studying psychology so my major was in psychology then I opened up my first consulting business which was a successful business for five years and it grew up to a wellness center.
I then pursued my master's degree in neuroscience and genetics and I fell in love with science so I co-founded a biotech startup after this and eventually I ended up doing a PhD in stem cell biology and at the moment I'm on my final year writing my theses and I just launched my third business which is the Guild of Growth and I offer one-on-one mentorship for new entrepreneurs on business strategy mindset of success and confidence growth. Wow, that is you're a busy woman. You're a very busy woman. Yes, I'm indeed.
So okay, we're talking about confidence how that relates how self-esteem relates to people successful professionally and personally. What are some of the common challenges that you see when you're working with your clients? So first of all what happens is that when your self-esteem is low usually you can't even start taking action because of your subconscious blocks and the fact that you think that you're not actually worthy of taking action and improving your situation and you know going after the goals that you really want. So it all starts with the feeling of self-worth and the fact that most of people don't actually feel that they're worthy of positive changes in their lives and the reason behind this is that they actually are not doing anything extraordinary anything good in order to prove to themselves and their subconscious mind that they are worthy of a positive change.
You know, so it all starts with an action and I keep on seeing this again and again and I recently tweeted something along the lines that nine out of ten people around you they actually they're just doing their bare minimum. Okay, so the competition is very very low. The bar is at very very low right now and it's crazy because like we live in such an amazing era where like the whole planet is connected online and you have access to infinite free resources online in order you know to get out there and become financially independent and you know become the best version of yourself. You know, you want to lose weight.
There's a bunch of tutorials online. You know, you want to make money There's like hundreds of you know ways to make money online nowadays You just need to actually decide that you want to take action and then you need to Just basically start and most people don't even start and it really hurts me You know, this is the reason why I started the guild of growth because I've been so right now As I said, I'm on my first year of phd So i've been in an academic environment for the past like three and a half years and you know We've been talking with friends and you know colleagues in academia that have great business ideas But they have no idea where to start and they kept on asking me different kinds of things They kept on asking me like different tips how to start where to find the resources to start how to you know, like take a business off the ground And you know, they literally kept telling me elena Okay, you should start a podcast or you should start a facebook group or something And then I realized that yeah, it's like I do need to kind of you know put some put this knowledge out there Because like through both my first business which was running for five years and my biotech startup I learned this this process of basically perfect massive action and that if you won't start if you won't take action today Nothing will happen, you know, and it's just so simple and you've probably heard this before but you know, not many implemented What surprises me is seeing people so you're talking about some of the other academics that you spend your time with These people are so competent. They've got so many talents. I'm around tons and tons of people who I look at I'm like, oh my god, like you're so well educated wise in a particular discipline have this this this and this But you're totally correct if you multiply by zero and that zero is no action Then everything that came before hits a very very hard brick wall And I love I love the idea that nine out of ten people doing the bare minimum to get by therefore the bar is set very low I think you're sadly I think you're very right.
I can't speak for other countries, but certainly in the uk There is a lack of agency of upward mobility of people's desire to become sovereign individuals, you know, and just do their thing And this isn't me saying like everybody should become an entrepreneur like it isn't me saying that It's just me saying that you can take control of your own growth either personally or professionally financially fitness wise whatever it might be you are in control Um, and yeah, I think um, you've got a couple of really interesting points there So you mentioned that you had a process a framework a plan can you take us through that? Yeah, yeah, sure Can I just comment on what you just said first because I think um I have a couple of more interesting points there So you're absolutely right and I think that this frame of mind is prevalent in most countries today really Um, and the other thing is that the academics of people that have you know Have been through an undergrad degree and then they proceed with a master's degree and a phd They're all very very smart But what happens is that they don't really have this real life experience outside academia So they're really focused on their science And the truth is that research demands you to be really really committed and spend a lot of hours in the lab or you know Do your literature review things like this so they're actually don't really know that there is this this amazing world out there And you know, our world is rapidly changing it's changing and it has like it's changed dramatically over the past decade You know like 15 years ago. There was no youtube So there were no resources and like it all starts at a young age So for instance our parents like they don't even understand the concept of making money online, you know And it all starts with school as well because they don't teach us, you know, like financial literacy literacy basically at school So like most people don't even think about it because no one told them like what to think about they don't know what they don't know You never know you can't know what you don't know. It's a very good point I wonder how much of a difference the children of our era now So someone who is you know between 0 and 10 in 2020 I wonder how much different their view professionally and personally of the world and how much of a growth mindset and stuff They will have because I certainly feel like millennials which is technically 84 to 96 I think they were part of such a corner turn that's such an inflection point that totally um Detached their experience from their parents.
Yeah, that it could happen again There could be another huge wave of change coming But something tells me that they probably won't that i'll probably be able to have more in common with my children's life experiences than my parents do with mine Do you what do you think about that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely Because the thing is that the turning point for our generation for the millennial generation was basically the internet and the fact that you know Like the whole way of living like half of our uh of our like um time that we spend a week is probably online now You know and especially in the few of the recent events Everyone like there is like a vast majority of people that is working online now in their transition online And there will be a bunch of people that you know Will be working on their side hustles and their online incomes right now while being under nine to five So they will probably they won't have this desire to actually go back to their nine to five And I think that like what internet really brings is the decentralization of professionalism And you know, like we're we're getting into this gig economy And I think that it's here to stay and you know everyone will be their own boss or the vast majority of people will keep on being their own boss in the future And I think this is what will be um, what will be present in the next generation as well Yeah, I think so david perel one of my favorite bloggers past modern wisdom guest has this thing where he says your side hustle has a side hustle Which is this this like multivariate stream of income world that some people have ventured into And um right now you are seeing those that did have multiple streams of income Perhaps an income from property perhaps something that was more web-based Um perhaps some investments and other bits and pieces They're the ones who have the most robust financial makeups and perhaps even anti-fragile makeup if they've been particularly clever and had foresight And some people might be making more money right now. I know a ton of people that are making more money on their internet businesses because everyone's spending like Screen time's probably going up by like 100% which is crazy. So let's get on to your framework We've got people that are listening.
They think yeah, this sounds great I'd like to become a sovereign individual with high agency and a bunch of other stuff But in action imposter syndrome. I don't know where to start. Where do we even begin? Yeah, okay So the first step is to recognize that the current system of action that you have in place does not produce the results that you want Okay, so once you realize this and once you understand that with your current actions your trajectory is not taking you where you want to go Okay, so this is the first step and the second step would be to define a clear plan of action and actually ask yourself Because like again, like what happens today is that everything is googleable Okay, so like 98% of the information that you need in order to become successful is out there Okay, maybe it's even 100% like for most people it's 100% Okay, like you need to dig a bit But you know, I'm sure that you'll be able to find information that you actually need in order to start something and create something from nothing And in terms of business what happens is that there are three core aspects that can that can all be built online nowadays And first you need to know what your customers want And like the mistake that most individuals do is that they start Working on an idea that they think is really great and it actually solves a solution It's all the problem that people have and it provides a particular solution But what happens is that they're not really validating it And nowadays again with the social media you can get so much validation for your idea You know, you just send out a bunch of questioners out there And you see what happens and you see what is you know The product or the service that can be marketed to a thirsty market in order to you know to cover a need and solve a problem And then what you do is you polish this product or service And again like now it's easier than ever to create digital products and provide services online things like this So once you realize what the customer wants what the market wants You can basically move into creating a product or service that is desirable And then the next step the third step is to create a distribution channel And again nowadays like it's easier than ever to create a distribution channel So one example could be a youtube channel right that provides very valuable content And then you can monetize this or social media account things like this But in order to go back into the negative feedback loop and the self-esteem And how to actually start and how to decide that you are worthy of starting You really need to focus on the positives and you really need to accept your situation as well Because what I see in a lot of my clients is that they really love complaining And they really love blaming the circumstances for what's happening to them Okay, so in terms of the perspective change The most important perspective that you need to change is the perspective of yourself And just focus on the existing resources that you have This might be a skill that you're honing or anything that you're passionate about And then really take it from there and tell yourself, okay, so it is what it is Yeah, I'm like, you know, my parents going through a divorce Or, you know, I'm really unhappy in life now I'm going through a breakup, something like this But if you won't take action, nothing will happen And this is what should motivate you Because once you realize like, look, there are people out there that's utilizing Like all the online resources I have access to as well And, you know, it should click And basically you should realize that, look, it is what it is And I'll just focus on taking action every single day And then the second step would be to be your own accountability partner And I think that this is another kind of perspective That can only lead to positive outcomes when you realize that You don't need to be disciplined only when you're supervised, you know It's interesting at the moment that we have everyone being released from the world of work, right?
They no longer have their boss breathing down their neck They no longer have the structures that disciplined them previously And to the people who have had to make that nomadic work-from-home transition I feel for you because it took me a decade to work out how to manage myself And you've just been expected to do it The world stopped, everyone's like, right, I'm going to work from home now And you're like, oh, hang on, what time do I get up? Where do I work from? How do I, am I supposed to get dressed? When do I have a coffee?
When do I go for a break? Have I worked too much? Have I worked too little? You know, it's real challenging There's a ton of different things that you went through there that I thought was interesting I like the idea that your current outcomes being indicative of your current inputs And that if you're not getting the outcomes that you want You have to presume that something's going wrong with the inputs Now, you're right, there are people out there who get headstarts People out there who get, what's the opposite of a headstart?
Whatever that is, whatever that is A head, a bum start, I don't know Whatever that is, whatever the thing is when they go behind it Like a disadvantage There's people that have both of those But that can't be changed It comes back to the stoic principle of the dichotomy of control What can you control, what can't you control, just do the things that you can When it comes to the self-esteem And people blaming circumstance or other bits and pieces Is that just them being able to point a finger at something which isn't their self Or is there something going on here, something else going on? It's just the reason that they point the fingers to someone else Is that they're not happy with themselves And for this reason, they don't want to bear their responsibility Because they think that they're unworthy of being responsible for their own life So it all comes back to this feeling of unworthiness Because what they're currently doing is not producing the results that they want So they're just basically give up And this is what separates a winner from a loser So a winner just keeps on going until he wins, he or she wins I'm going to guess that you'll be familiar with the learned helplessness study on dogs Have you heard this? Okay, so this identifies, I think, one of the things you might be getting at So it's a very famous study done quite a while ago And dogs were put in a cage and the floor was shocked So it was uncomfortable for the dogs, shocked the dogs In those three groups In the first group, the dogs had a little button that they could press And if they pressed the button, then it went away In the second group, the dogs had a button that they could press And if they pressed the button, nothing happened So they just kept on getting shocked And then in the third group, if they pressed the button Sorry, they didn't get shocked at all, right? So three different groups of dogs Roll it forward, second iteration of the study They're now put into a different cage, different button, same shocks All three sets of dogs are now shocks So remember that the third set was never shocked in the first place First set, who had the button that worked They go over to the button and they press it The third set, who were never shocked in the first place They also go over to the button and they push it But the second group, who the first time The button didn't do anything They just curled up on the floor And didn't try to go and press the button Despite the fact that that button worked So what that was then moved into Was a theory of learned helplessness And that over time, if the world continues to keep on beating you After a while, you just think, no this isn't for me, I'm just going to give up.
But that's a natural response. Yeah, it's basically conditioning. So when you're conditioned to certain circumstances, you don't even try and change your circumstances because you think that you don't have control over them. But this is what my message basically was, is that what can give you hope and what can give you the willingness to try something new to produce some results is the realization that you're actually the only person that is in control of their lives.
And your situation, sometimes it's hard to change your situation, but you can change your perspective and you can change what you're getting out of the situation. Okay, so we have seven billion people on the planet and unfortunately, most of them are conditioned to not take action, perhaps because of their family beliefs or perhaps of the fact that they tried something and it didn't work. But if you, you know, there is this myth of overnight success and, you know, we see articles about successful entrepreneurs and, you know, there are some misleading titles saying that, oh, you know, like entrepreneur A had an overnight success and it's never an overnight success. This is what my career taught me as well.
You know, I had to iterate. I had to go through a lot of like difficulties through my career and, you know, it's never straightforward. And, you know, after running my business, I'm originally from Greece. So after running my business, my first business in Greece for five years, I moved to the UK to do my master's degree.
And, you know, I was a self-funded student. I wasn't working for a year. At some point, my savings run out. You know, I was in a hard situation.
And then after completing my master's, I had different kinds of options to get a job or do something else. And then I found this cool biotech startup that was looking for a co-founder. And I knew that I wouldn't get a salary, but it was like, it was a priceless experience. I learned so much, you know, and, you know, it was definitely worth it.
And, you know, I was telling about this experience to a friend of mine. And he said something along the lines, oh my God, Elena, you were so brave back then. And you took a leap of faith. And like, you didn't think about quitting or getting a job.
And I said that for me, quitting was never an option. And, you know, maybe I have this kind of mindset because I basically was never an employee before. So I started my first business at 22, straight after my bachelor's degree. And I could, and the reason that I started and I was looking for different kinds of, you know, opportunities is that like, I don't know, maybe it's in my blood or something, but I really love a good challenge.
And I couldn't imagine myself being contained in a 95 go. Yeah, I get that. I wonder how can someone, it's all well and good for me and you who've been indoctrinated into this entrepreneurial world since we were teenagers slash early twenties. But, you know, someone who's not from this world might just listen to what you're saying there.
And you know, that's all well and good for you as you're super achieving like brain box with five degrees and tech startup and all this sort of stuff. But I'm just, I'm just a normal guy or a normal girl. I don't have this indomitable spirit. I don't have, that's a really indomitable, indomitable, whatever that word, indomitable.
I don't have this unbeatable spirit. Yeah, but it doesn't matter what it is. How do I get over it? How do I get over myself?
I don't think that I can do that. That's easy for you to say. You know, that first step. But it doesn't matter what you think.
You need to ask yourself, okay, if I start trying, what's the worst that can happen to me? You know, like, are you going to die? Are you going to like, you know, become homeless or something? I mean, if you run this risk, you probably should have started your own business, but you know what I'm saying.
And like, I'll give you an example of my third business, basically the one that I started a few months ago. I set up the whole business in the UK in a matter of two days. You know, I found a virtual office address. I registered the company.
You know, I set up a business bank account and it all took me, I don't know, less than a hundred pounds and less than two days to organize. You know, creating a business is easier than ever. And especially like with this, with this freelancing economy that we're in the moment, like you don't need to be so anxious about, you know, about organizing the whole thing because like 20 years ago, if you wanted to start a business, you know, you should have rented a place and, you know, bought an inventory, things like that. So now with, you know, with online products and online services, you can, you can start, like what's the worst thing that can happen, you know?
And like, I think that Tim Ferriss mentions in his four hour work week, mentions that if you're really afraid to take a leap of faith, like literally rate your fear from zero to 10. Okay, what's the worst that can happen? Is it really that bad? You know, just put things into perspective with zero being like zero negative consequences and 10 being you, you know, like losing a limbo or something, you know, like what's the worst that can happen?
You know, like you can start and you can start working in a business or an idea in your free time and then this is where time management comes in as well because people are also conditioned having certain habits and, you know, buying watching Netflix and like every weekend and then again, you need to ask yourself, do I really need to do this? And you need to evaluate your trajectory and ask yourself, okay, if in five years from now, I want to be making seven figures, if in five years from now, I want to buy a Ferrari, like why am I buying watching Netflix every weekend? Like it doesn't make any sense, you know, like perhaps you should prioritize your stuff a bit better before saying that it's actually not possible. I agree.
I think assessing the daily actions that you take and then realizing what happens if you roll the clock forward from there is empowering and also scary. It's terrifying in the same breath, right? Because you realize just how many of the things you do don't serve the end result that you actually want. One thing I've been thinking a lot about recently has been to do with people's trust in their own word.
So a lot of the time people try and enact some form of behavior change. I'm going to lose weight. I'm going to stop smoking. I'm going to get up early.
I'm going to be nice to my partner. I'm going to stop arguing with whatever, spend time on my phone. And a lot of the time habits and behavior changes don't go tremendously well and people end up going back to their old modes of operating. And if you do that enough times, it's like if you imagine being friends with someone who always, you say, hey, are we meeting at the coffee shop at one o'clock?
And they say, yeah, yeah, we're meeting at one o'clock. And then you turn up at one o'clock and they're not there. And you're like, well, what happened? Oh, yeah, sorry, this thing came up.
And you're like, okay, fair enough, fair enough. And then a couple of weeks later is something else. Okay, so we're meeting at three o'clock. Yeah, yeah, we're meeting at three.
And then they continue to not turn up. Think about what would happen there. After time, you would lose faith in your friend's ability to ever do what they say they're going to do. And you have to consider a lack of confidence inspires further lacks of confidence, but increases in confidence inspire increases in confidence.
So yeah, this is how you go from a negative feedback loop to a positive feedback loop of results and then more action. And this is something really great. And I definitely agree with you. I used to have friends that used to be late all the time, so they're not my friends anymore.
Dicks, that's what they're called. They're not called friends. They're called dicks, Elena. Yeah, and then I totally agree with you that in isolation, you can actually be more accountable if you really can focus on the things that matter to you.
And I've been seeing the same thing with myself. You know, before the lockdown, I wasn't consistent with my workouts, but now I work out every day and I'm looking forward to it and I'm going for a walk or a run like every single day. And, you know, it's been amazing, really. And this reinforces even more.
And now I can't wait to get up and actually, you know, go for a run. But one thing, again, to consider there is if you are thinking, this sounds good, I like the idea of becoming a little bit more motivated, more confidence, building more confidence seems to make sense to me. It's compounding interest. That's one of the key.
That's the eighth great wonder of the world is Warren Buffett called it. But I need to overcome my principal inertia. That is, that first period is always the most uncomfortable in behavior change because it's when you're putting in all of the effort, all of the discomfort, feeling all of the challenge and not seeing any results. And unfortunately, that is what happens.
So I use this analogy this month. So this is the 20th of May when we're recording this episode. Since the beginning of May until now, I've done more plays on Modern Wisdom than I did in all of 2018. Oh, wow.
20 days worth of plays, more than 12 months worth of plays. So if I had the mindset that I do now with regards to where I pitch the exposure for the podcast back then, I'd be like, what am I doing? Why am I putting out an episode a week when it's getting, you know, one 50 second of what I could get in half a month? You know, like why would I be doing that?
But again, like there's lead measures and there's lag measures. The lead measure will always be uncomfortable. You're going to be getting up early. You're going to be doing learning things, getting confused online, getting frustrated, realizing that you set the business up with the wrong postcode and having to resend the card, but you know, all of those different things.
And you're like, right, okay, that bit sucks. But if it's just single stepping stones, every mistake is just a lesson that you don't repeat and you just continue to chew through it. You're like, I am making progress. I am getting there even if I can't see it.
Yeah, this is how you motivate yourself by realizing that every mistake is a stepping stone for the next thing that you're going to be doing right. And this is like, this is how you can achieve big goals as well by basically breaking them down in smaller and like much more likely achievable goals in order for you to start having some progress and get those dopamine kicks that will trigger the positive feedback loop. This is what I'm telling my customers as well is that if you have a certain goal in five years from now to be making let's say seven figures, you know, this is a very, very abstract goal and your subconscious mind probably cannot even imagine it. So what you do is you ask yourself, okay, in order for me to achieve this goal, what do I need to achieve in one year from now?
And then you break this down even further and you say, okay, in six months from now, where do I need to be? How many customers do I need to have in six months from now? So what does this mean and if I don't achieve it, I know that I need to move into a different direction. I know that I need to test out different things and this is another very, very useful trait in entrepreneurship is that when you're trying things out and you don't work and they don't work, it's actually a good thing because you eliminated an assumption that you had before and now you know that there is a different direction that you need to go into.
Okay, so this is actually so, so valuable. Well, I think inevitably because of what we see of other people's conduct, we see the highlight reel. You don't see the failures or at least you don't see them that much unless it's failure slash hustle porn which is quite common, I guess, in Silicon Valley. But yeah, you don't see that.
So you just presume that your failures of you being an idiot, not a normal byproduct of doing a complex thing in a complex world. Yeah, my God, the failures that I faced so far and especially in my academic career. So when I completed my master's degree and I was looking for PhD projects, I got something like 20 rejections and some of the rejections that I got them even before applying. So I would just contact the supervisor saying, hi, this is Elena, this is my CV, this is what I did so far, blah, blah, blah.
I want a wet lab project. I really love science. I'm in love with molecular biology but I have a bachelor's degree in psychology. And the reply was, yeah, yeah, thank you for your consideration but you don't have any to apply.
Ouch. Yeah, so true story there. And then I met my current PhD supervisor and he could just see this spark in me and my passion about what I'm doing which is driven by the results that I'm seeing and the impact that I could be having into patients' lives and really benefit as many people as possible with my research. And he trusted me on this and here we are.
I haven't even finished my PhD yet. I already have over 110 citations or something. It's going very good. Thank you.
Yeah, I think this kind of ties in to self-esteem certainly and also one of the reasons that some people might not like to work as hard as they could or put themselves out there because if you don't bother trying to do something you always have culpable deniability that you could have made it work but just didn't bother. Whereas if you try and fail that is a very harsh reflection on your capacity and because people are unable to detach their sense of self from their sense of success that is essentially the same as the world's telling you you are not worthy. Not that your business just sucked or you tried to launch a garden centre in the middle of coronavirus or you know what I mean? Like does that mean a perfect example there someone tries to launch a business they've been building a coffee shop for the last year and a half saving up money for the last five years they've retired away into the countryside created this beautiful coffee shop ready to launch March 20th ready to launch whenever it was March 22nd Boris comes in takes a big sledgehammer and just smashes it through the window and you're like okay does that mean that you suck as a person?
Does that mean no it means that the world is chaotic and messy and unfortunately sometimes you come off on the right side sometimes you don't that's why Lady Fortuna was back in your country's ancient days that's why she gave and take it wasn't that you were a loser it's that you were unfortunate. Yeah absolutely and what happens is that when you do see those failures and you do connect them to your self-esteem you actually need to realise that world being a scary place is not the only explanation here because maybe the world just wants to tell you wants to take care of you and tell you look unfortunately this is not the way it's going to work try something else and then you just keep going and the way I see it again I really love challenges I do understand that this is not how many people think some people are not so comfortable getting out of their conqueror zone but what they need to realise is that if you're sitting on your couch there is 100% probability that you're not going to make it you're not going to build your new business by just buying watching Netflix and it's inevitable that you will not succeed so if you're really afraid of failure you're bringing this into your life well yeah it's like imagining the worst fear that you can and then manifesting it at the same time if you spend all of your time worrying about whether or not you're going to make something of your short time on this earth and decide to not change the actions you are taking you're assuring yourself of your own destruction or at least assuring yourself that your own nightmare is going to come into reality it's just it is hard right because you see you see the world you see your place in the world and your capacity and how successful you are or how good you are as a parent a brother a business owner a boss a leader whatever it might be you see these things and you feel like they are an existential label placed on you this is this symbolic huge curse or blessing given from the gods and you're like I know that's what it feels like and trust me I've been through business as well I've been through so many neurotic terrible mindset places where I've attached my sense of self-worth to my sense of success all this sort of stuff throughout the last 13 years of running business I'm nearly 14 now and it feels grand and esoteric and like you are attached to the universe somehow but it's just things happening in life that's all it is that's all that anything really is and I hope that we're drilling this nail constantly hitting it with a massive hammer of self-esteem so that people can realize that they are able to enact change within their life the things their outcomes in their life are under their control exactly and I think that when you're in this dark place of a negative feedback loop of inaction and failure and you don't really know how to get inspired what I find really really inspirational and interesting is to read a biography of a person that I really admire okay sorry who like like Elon Musk or Richard Branson you know you read their autobiographies and and you read their autobiographies and you read their autobiographies You're just like, it's mind-blowing. How much action did they take until the things started working? And when you see examples, when you start training your brain with examples of people that have made it, I think that your mindset will start changing a bit.
And again, today, it's easier than ever to do this because you just go online and you can listen to audio books or listen to podcasts or interviews of great men and women. And then you'll realize that, look, there is actually a different reality out there because what happens nowadays is that when you're surrounded with people that do not inspire you, it makes sense that you actually won't take action. And this is why something else very important is to surround yourself with friends and people that have the mindsets that you would like to have more of, okay? Because when you're in an environment where everyone's on their nine-to-five and this is their world and they're going to the pub every Friday night and this is it and this is what gives them the dopamine kick, you should ask yourself, okay, so if I do the same things that they're doing, what are the outcomes that I'll be having?
And then you realize that, wait a minute, so this is actually a compromise and I can achieve more if I start having different actions. If I start reading audio, listening to audio books while they're going to the pub and then your perspective changes and then you realize, okay, so this is not everything that's out there for me. I agree. And especially online, you can find communities of people.
Now, it's not just that you have to be in the same location. Or a WhatsApp chat or a YouTube channel or a Discord server or whatever it might be that has some people in there that make you feel like you're speaking to them, right, or like they're speaking to you. One of the things that I get messages, very, very complimentary, probably my favorite type of messages that I receive about the podcast is when people say, hey man, I really enjoyed the show. Just wait to let you know, like sometimes I feel like I don't have a whole lot of people that think like me wherever I live or that operate in the same sort of headspace.
But when I listen to the show, I really feel like you get me. I feel like we think in the same sort of way. So, you know, and the people that listen, I don't know what you're on about Chris, I just listen because you've got a funny accent. But no matter why it is that you have the opportunity to find someone that speaks to you, that might be Tim Ferriss, that might be the girls from Pretty Little Thing, that might be Peter Crouch the footballer, you know, whatever it is, the more that you align yourself with people who have words that land with you rather than words that just go past you, I think that's a good place to be.
Yeah, and what happens when your environment is not really motivating you is that you have all those stereotypes and labels in there because people just reinforce what's familiar for them. And if you won't get out of those stereotypes of behavior that they do define their community by, like it will be very, very hard for you to change your actions because you will be criticized if you're doing something else. And I must comment here is that you're absolutely right that bad friends are probably like worse than no friends. You know, I'm very eclectic with my time and I got to tell you, I don't have a lot of friends.
And, you know, Naval has commented on how precious his time is once saying that he doesn't do non-transactional meetings, meaning that, you know, if there is no concrete value coming out of a meeting or a coffee, he's not going to meet a person, you know, an email or a phone call is enough. And before even it escalates to a phone call, he'll bet very, very well whether this person is worth their time. And I think that once you set a certain value for your time saying that, and he actually said that at the beginning of his career, he was constantly evaluating his time in terms of even the smallest that he had to do. So if he had to do an Amazon return for like $10, like it wasn't worth like an hour of his time because he could generate more money in this hour.
OK, so this is a very, very good kind of betting of your time. You just need to, again, be very objective and ask yourself, do I really need to spend my time on A and B and C? And unfortunately, this could include some friends that, you know, you can't really, you know, talk about the things that matter to you that could be business or philosophy or something that could elevate your mind and, you know, can make you feel that this meeting is useful in some way. Yeah, it's the crazy thing as well is to consider that some people find that group of friends straight away.
Like that's mad to me, the fact that, you know, you just happen to stumble by chance. Let's call it what it is. You know, like you live in halls of residence, which is randomly assigned next to some person that ends up being your best mate for the rest of time. I feel very fortunate.
My business partner, I sat next to my business partner of 13 years in my first ever seminar. Like that's just by chance. But this is amazing. Conversely, as you hit the nail on the head there, having friends for the sake of having friends, if they don't bring you up and perhaps even bring you down, introverts have a competitive advantage.
I've been talking about this recently to do with COVID that usually in almost all situations, extroverts tend to have a competitive advantage because they're easier to socialize. They can do put more time in with people that means that they can compound their networking effect more quickly. However, there's a few particular situations in which introverts end up having a competitive advantage. And one of them is in being more frugal with their time and not wasting it on people that they don't value.
And the other one is when they have to become their own disciplinarians and work on their own, by their own. And that's obviously happened in COVID as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I see myself as a phenotypic extrovert.
What's that? That sounds like a kind of mushroom. No, it's not a mushroom. So phenotype, it's a term in genetics that basically is like how something is seen, basically.
So in a cell, it would be the morphology of the shape of the cell. So this is the cell phenotype. So neurons would have long accents. This is a neuronal phenotype.
So I call myself a phenotypic extrovert because I'm very comfortable with socializing and having a lot of friends. But actually, I do enjoy my alone time. And I think that this also has to do with your self-esteem. So it all comes back with being comfortable being with yourself, basically.
Because what we see in a lot of extroverts is they actually just, they cannot stand being alone. You know, and they just need a company to fill this void because they have nothing to offer to themselves and they don't really know how to cope with this. And for this reason, I mean, this is not always the case, obviously, but you get what I'm saying here. And I think that this is also an art to be self-sufficient.
And this is something that definitely gives an entrepreneur an unfair advantage, whether they are an introvert or an extrovert. Absolutely. I feel for extroverts who are uncomfortable having the amount of time on their own that they need to do the introspective work and reflection requires to develop themselves. Again, you know, the introverts out there, that is your competitive advantage.
The fact that you're perfectly fine spending a whole day with just yourself is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to reflect on you, the way that you operate, to read a book and sit and just think about it for 10 minutes while you make yourself a cup of coffee or whatever it might be. Because you in a different version, the extrovert version of you would be ringing a friend while they make the coffee, they'd be FaceTiming someone while they make the coffee. Whereas to you, that feels like absolute hell and you just want to make your coffee in peace.
Okay, so use that time. You have the opportunity to use this time and to start sort of looping it back to what we said at the beginning. So you talked about the fact that self-esteem is the foundation, that you need to believe that you're worth more than you are. You need to relate your current outcomes to your current actions.
What was next? What came after that? It's basically the ability to keep on iterating and just keep on going and trying different things because this is how you will inevitably succeed one day when you'll find the perfect kind of product market fit. This is a term from Silicon Valley where a product goes viral basically.
So you just need to try different things to see what sticks fast and this is how it's done. And to comment on what you said previously is that sometimes we do hear those success stories of entrepreneurs and you have people that knew them back from high school or something saying, yeah, he or she was just such a quiet child and we had no idea and this overnight success really came out of nowhere. No, it wasn't overnight success. It was the fact that this person was comfortable just to be focused on their goals.
Yeah, I think as well the iterating on projects is an important one because it brings us back to seeing failures as a lesson not as a comment on your self-worth which again keeps your self-esteem, your confidence robust to the inevitable challenge that you're going to come up against. So we've got that. We've got the fact you need to continue iterating. We've got the fact that you might need to change your tribe and your social circle in order to give you better influence so that you start you don't really need to be someone that brings you up just having someone that doesn't bring you down is a great start.
That person that's always negative that's always saying always comparing themselves playing keeping up with the Joneses terrible with money terrible with keeping promises always late for them someone that's late all the time it's such a warning sign as a friend because it literally just says my time is worth more than your time. What does that say about the rest of your friendship? Yes, of course. So when you'll be in a difficult situation how will this friend behave and will they even help you?
So it's this matter of accountability and trustworthiness. Got you. So any final pearls of wisdom or things that people can take away from this? Is there anything that you want to leave people to part with?
Okay, so there is a saying that you probably have heard before and it's just be yourself. Okay, and what they forget to add is that you need to be the best version of yourself. Okay, so you can't just be in your boring self that never gets out of your comfort zone and then expecting everyone to like you and then being angry that this advice didn't work. So instead of focusing on external circumstances my advice would be to always focus on yourself and your self-improvement.
Just keep on honing those skills that will inevitably give you the result that you want. I love it. Elena, really, really cool. I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about what our true self is anyway.
I mean, I thought about this this morning. So if someone gets a nose job, plastic surgery on their nose, is that nose still their nose? And you can kind of see self-development as an internal version of that. Like, well, how much of the things that I make my new self do, my new ways of seeing the world, ways of operating, if I develop a new morning routine and start meditating, am I then, is meditation still me?
Is that me as a meditator? How does it work? And it's an interesting sort of philosophical question actually to ask that and if anyone that's listening has an answer to that, whether or not having a nose job is still your nose and then the same, whether or not doing behavior change makes you more of you or less of you, I'd love to find out the answer to that. So let me know.
Elena, where can people go? Do you want to find out more about Guild of Growth? They'll check you out online. Where do they go?
Yeah, sure. So they're on the website is guildofgrowth.com and then we have a Facebook and an Instagram page is Guild of Growth. I also enjoy microblogging on Twitter, so they can find me by my name so it's Elena Saranova, E Saranova. And yeah, this is it.
I would be happy to get in touch. Cool. I will link everything in the show notes below Guild of Growth and Elena's Twitter. Go and Hassler on there if you want to talk about self-development and self-esteem and stuff like that.
I think that would be really cool. I think it's really, really great. I look forward to, or I hope that you see the final year of your academics off and you can get this PhD knocked out as well. Thank you.
Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. Catch you later on.