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187: Suffering, Part 4 episode artwork

EPISODE · Oct 8, 2023 · 1H 15M

187: Suffering, Part 4

from Denver Snuffer Podcast

This is part four of a series looking at the role of suffering in the life of the Savior, and how our own suffering brings us closer to Him. You cannot endure a Terrestrial glory in a Telestial state. Lying, and stealing, and deceiving, and adultery, and whoremongering (all of the abominations that people prize in this generation), your lusts, your ambitions, your desires to lord it over one another (the common affliction of the Gentile)—all of those things are a level below what Zion requires. And so, if one happily strolls into Zion while profaning the conditions upon which it will be established, they subject themselves to the penalty of being where they should not be, in a condition in which they cannot endure. The destruction that occurred at Christ's death on the Americas was the destruction of the wicked only. If you look at 3 Nephi chapter 10, verse 12 (see also 3 Nephi 4:8 RE), you find out that the more righteous were saved. Those who live a Telestial law will be destroyed. Turn to Doctrine and Covenants section 76. I wanna begin at—well, I may as well back up. I was gonna begin a little later on. I want you to remember the chant, “Follow the Prophet, Follow the Prophet,” which we can drill in mindlessly to the youth with a drumbeat cadence that sounds rather like [Denver makes Native American chanting sounds]; you know, “Follow the Prophet, Follow the Prophet”—you do that. “Follow the Brethren, Follow the Brethren.” The glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world; For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas. These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ, ...some of John, ...some of Moses, ...some of Elias, ...some of Esaias, ...some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch; But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant [yet to be established]. Last of all [and this is a general description of those who have Telestial behavior], these...are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud. These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. (D&C 76:98-105; see also T&C 69:26-27) That is a broad description of those who can not be in Zion. And, notably, it begins with a list of those who “follow the prophets,” almost as if the Lord (in the revelation to Joseph Smith) anticipated your day and warned you: “Do not go thither! Do not partake of that! Receive the testimony of Jesus! Prepare when He offers the Everlasting Covenant! Do that!” To the extent that a church or an organization worships or trusts a man in lieu of Christ, it will lead you to Telestial destruction. It will not… Those who believe in it will not survive the destruction of the wicked that precedes the Lord's return. I'll tell you what you get from a Strongman model. What you get from a Strongman model is a multibillion-dollar shopping mall. What you get from a Strongman model is a red Cadillac Escalade stopped on a back road in Nevada with $54,000 of cash in the back of the car when ‘the prophet’ is arrested for child abuse and child sexual exploitation (that's Warren Jeffs). I'll tell you what you get with a Strongman model: You get pretenders, and you get fools. You get people who hold onto their power (like the LeBaron's did) by murdering one another so that they can claim that they have ‘the keys.’ I'll tell you what you get with the Strongman model: You get Brigham Young who takes a woman who was already who takes women who were already married to another man (and not divorced), seals them to himself with keys,’ and then proceeds to father children with them (and Brigham Young condemned Parley Pratt for doing exactly the same thing—and even observed at Parley's death that he probably deserved to be killed by the jealous husband because it was adultery for Parley to have done what he did). And what then is the distinction between the conduct of Brigham Young, on the one hand, and the exact same conduct by Parley Pratt, on the other hand? The difference lies in the fact that Brigham Young claimed to have the keys. If keys allow adultery, I want no such keys! If keys allow adultery, then I say, Damn me now, because I want nothing of it! I don't think that the pretenders in the Strongman model have any clue what it would take to bring again Zion, because they do not kneel down to serve and elevate the least. The only way to bring again Zion is if you—you—rise up; is if you come to know the Lord! Not me! The only way is if you comprehend the Gospel of Christ, accept the invitation, prepare your heart, prepare your mind, prepare your soul, clean yourself up, leave behind your sins, and come and face the Lord. Zion is a level. It is an absolute level. Here's a description of the level. This is Moses chapter 7, verse 18, And the Lord called his people ZION, because they were of one heart and of one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there were no poor among them (see also Genesis 4:14 RE, emphasis added). There were no poor among them because it's intolerable for your sister to suffer in want if you have enough and to spare. There were no poor among them because you cannot dwell in righteousness if you find a need, and you're unwilling to fulfill it. The day of salvation appears tenuously, almost as gossamer as a spider web. And if you don't lay hold of it, it is lost. And generations can come and go and sing hymns to the pride of their ancestry and the greatness of their religion—and go to Hell. Because when the Lord sets His hand, He sets it exactly the same way every time. And it requires faith to come aboard, and it requires faith to believe. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe. [Slow of heart to believe] all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? (Ibid, vs. 25-26) You don’t understand. You don’t understand, because the prophets have said this is exactly what our Lord would do. Shouldn’t He have suffered? Shouldn’t He have come in apparent weakness and vulnerability? Shouldn’t He have come in the very manner in which He appeared and to have suffered? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Ibid, vs. 27) Right here—right here—is how the New Testament got framed. When you go to Matthew, when you go to Mark, Luke, and John, you are seeing an echo in each of them what the Lord did on the road to Emmaus with these disciples. He proved that Christ came and suffered as He ought to had done, because all that the prophets have spoken were fulfilled in Him. Therefore, He opened unto them the scriptures that they might understand. Our Lord, who could’ve borne testimony of Himself, revealing 10,000 new truths—our Lord, who could’ve disclosed and preached and delivered practically any new content He chose to deliver—our Lord expounded the scriptures concerning Himself. That should tell you something. John 5:19, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever the Father doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise (see also John 5:4 RE). And the Father went before, and the Son follows after. And if you think that you can, at some point, like Him, attain to the status of godhood, then you’re going to have to do precisely what it is that the Gods do. Therefore, to understand Christ is to understand the challenging destiny about which Joseph Smith is speaking in this last Conference talk given in 1844. Until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. (TPJS, pg. 347) Even what we envision as the highest heaven is a condescension for those who sit enthroned, able to dwell in everlasting burnings. Else why in section 132 [130] would you be given a white stone that reveals things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms (D&C 130:10) when you are in the Celestial Kingdom! It’s because where you are now (at this moment, in this meeting, hearing my voice in this room today) is about halfway to where you need to grow (and it’s been almost infinite in getting you here—today) in order to arrive at the point that you might be able to be as Christ. And where Christ arises to, in everlasting burnings, is about halfway to where things ultimately can go. You say it's necessary in this condition to have a physical body in order to come down here and perform, and you say that rightly. But there are other places beyond. I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me. (TPJS, pg. 347) That’s Joseph talking. We preach, and we exhort; and largely we do so vainly, having not power—not having been asked and not teaching what ought to be. But “to attain to the resurrection of the dead” means you have the power to resurrect—and not yourself, but those who are dependent upon you. It’s a ways off yet. Now Joseph says something in 1844 that’s remarkable: These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, [daughter], mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die anymore; but they shall be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it?...

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187: Suffering, Part 4

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