Thanks for tuning in to Turbo Sports Radio. In this edition, John I host another episode of his exclusive Warhammer 40K podcast, Turbo Tabletop. Get ready to embark on the journey through the immersive universe of Warhammer, where Mike Yarmy's Clash in Epic Battles unfold. Whether it's season veteran or a fresh recruit, Turbo Tabletop is your go-to source for tactical insights, army building strategies and the latest news from the frontlines.
Let's play the theme tune. Welcome to another Turbo Tabletop. Today we will be taking the new Unitorum Field Manual, the recent course update, and just the general state of play. And once again joined by Isaac.
Hello. And Ollie. Hi. And we'll just see what's going on.
See how our armies are fed, who's hot and who's not. So who wants to kick things off? I've got it in front of me so I can start if you want. I play cast based marines and dark angels.
I've just started up with a couple of things. Yeah, it's the same thing. CSM were obviously in a bit of a difficult place in the meta, coming down from a really strong place when they were largely were out of power. They needed some fixes.
They fixed us were clearly too much because they dropped down to about 40% and one of the worst actions in the game quite well. There's some really interesting little tweaks and changes. Bikers down 10 points from a 5 to 75. Bikers have seen a lot of play recently because they've got the ability to leave board edges, which is obviously really strong in 10th edition.
So it's really nice to see that they've come down. I don't know if that means I'll be taking any more than the two squads I'm already taking, but it's three points in my list. And that might be an enhancement or whatever. It's quite nice to have those points.
Terminator is a down 10 points, which I think he's a step in the right direction. I still think Terminator is in general over costives and I'll be on that bit more with dark angels. But 100.85.5. Terminator is better.
It's better. There's certainly in the better place. Cast Terminator is still quite strong. So they're very all hit because of their dark packs.
I think if we could just have five power fists and swap that with better, having to have an incarcerated weapon and three power fists and a chain face. Yeah, it's more of a modelling issue I think for them. But they're good. Terminator is a good.
They're just I think still maybe five 10 points still too expensive. Vindicators down. Why? They're great.
Really weird change there. Everyone is running vindicated. Everyone's running two vindicators. They're really good.
Yes, they're swinging. I've been on the receiving end of when you roll one damage. Deacix damage should not exist on a demon sword or for it when the gods are screwing you or not. But on a giant blast cannon.
I mean, come on. It should be like D3 plus three. Yeah, that's what you want. A last cannon D3 plus three.
Yeah. Or D6 plus two. D3 plus two. Whatever.
But I think that that swinginess. The guy's vindicated is great when they hit. Not great when they down. Cultists down five points.
I don't think that was a change. I needed to happen. Cultists are good. Sticky objectives.
Mark and Nurgle means you can learn up in 13 inches so they can just hold the back field and then nick off when they need to do some screening. But again, I think it's just acknowledging that chaos were in a bad spot and that's actually letting you take more of the stuff you were maybe using or that good list that just needed a little bit of extra help gets it. Siphor down five points. Really like Siphor.
He was great at the start of the edition and he's a model that I think should be great because he's a lore wise one of the coolest characters before he came. He's awesome. But the cost of his big thing is he increases the cost of a strategy and that is so limited with it being power tactic only. I still don't know if you'll see play.
I think that's still a limiting factor. I think they need to remove that requirement for a lot of reasons because things like custodes which we'll talk a bit when you've got no battle tactics and one of your captains give you free battle tactics for items. That rule wasn't written with the collectives in mind. I think that's where it's lacking.
Havix and Helbridge down. Helbridge is a little bit of play because they give you both sides of the pack to get sustained and lethal. So on like an Abadon squad where you're getting lethals and sustains on fives, that's a frightening thing. That's a big thing.
Even on your predators and duplicates, if you're getting sustained, that's really little to six and sustained on fives with full rewalls from it on. You're going to start to pick up some extra stuff. So that's nice to come down. Havix, I don't know if they'll see too much play.
It's still just five space marines. They're T5. All Azkhan's is pretty weird to run them with. They're still going to get picked up by most things and shooting because they're just marines.
Demon Prince is a down which is again nice because people are starting to use the Soneesh build. But again, there's no loanoff. You just shoot with the last guy on the Demon Prince there. Too swishy.
I'd like to see them with some sort of loanoff or minus one to hit or I think those models, those Demon Prince's are in a weird place. Demon Prince's should be a lot better. Because they don't attach to anyone. They don't have loanoff.
What to do? They hand out the mediocre aura. So they get cover, I think, if you're certain distance. But it's not the Demon Prince with wings.
I think he does more thoughts when he flies over or something like that. But most times he's been killed in Prince and shooting. It's not an impossible feat. Legionaries down in between is the biggest change because legionaries are pretty good.
They're pretty good. We're just talking about martial slash legionaries, and fans in charge, exploding fives, rewinding ones to wounds, all wounds on objectives. They're in a good place, eight points for five legionaries any day of the week. That's a good amount.
I'm certainly going to shift away from ten minutes to legionaries. More fiends down. Of course he is because no one's running in because he's less attractive. Cousin, but for trimmed, he's so good.
Although that's not saying he's playing anymore because it's an X now. Just too expensive to run. It's not possessed down, which is really nice. Possessed up pretty good.
The AP1's a little limiting, but Devwinds on six is kind of balances that out. They're fast. The T6, three wounds, five of them vulnerable. They've got some durability in them.
Raptors are down. Really great change because that's another one of your secondary pieces, which is really nice. I was running them stupidly at the tournament, actually running them with Malthigan's and Flamers and things like that, not just five dudes with chainsaws. Venom Crawlers, great anti-infantry.
Really worth the time, I think. Down again. You're not playing infantry though, you have a bad day. They're not built to kill anything else.
And with UKTC terrain, if you're running your predators, you've indicated, and to you've got to be able to be able to be able to do any vehicles. You're just boxing yourself in. I do think there's... The kind of kind of a grand game game that was incredible.
I think there is space for a different type of list of the predators that indicate many rhinos with some Venom Crawlers backing them up and a slightly different take on the... It's kind of like the Death Guard, though, with playing rings and rhinos followed up by the blood drones. Yeah, I'm just starting to wonder if a blood rate just might be back on the menu with the point savings in other places. And that's your anti-tank that's your...
What you need that you've indicated is a character, because everything's too much gorgeous in the castle anyway. Some of the things I think I wish they'd changed. I think the character called this to have been brought down a little bit, the nerfs, I think were enough, because that play style is pretty much muted. There's a couple of Mad Lads at Oxford GT that did all right with them.
But that's rare. You've got a lot of running a character called this, that seems to be the Oxford anomaly, or maybe a UK thing, but a broader bit of not happening. Dark Postl, no one's using him, 75 points, it's cheap, but it's not in play. Same Fabius Bile, your result champions, Harken World Clemmer.
Well, it would be as well if we were out of the... ...con I don't know, because he's not a number of the Empress children, while the bandits in Lawwise after the full of Council City. So I don't know which... Sorry, I don't know which...
I don't know which... I don't know which way he'll say. I'd hope he would sit in the end of a mercenary in the current Fabius Bile, not least working for Avidon. He'll probably go to the...
And build him. Just so they've got another character. Possibly, yeah. But I'd like to cheer on Blackheart, who I think is probably going Legends, who's going to go to the way of Captain Badrock.
His model's no longer sold, they've not revealed one, which is a shame, especially as he's just got a new novel. About a year ago, so I'm a bit disappointed that he's here on his gun, because Chaos have only got two named characters once they just leave, Avidon and Harken. I saw Discordant on Hellstalker. One hundred and ninety points.
One of the last time he saw one of those anywhere. Great tradition. What did you say? The Discord Lord.
Oh, sure. Sorry, I came in the full then. When was the last time anybody ran with those? Yeah, I don't know.
But they're so cool. It's one of those cool Zookamodels, but it's a huge base, and it's the Demon Prince problem. They're not durable enough to survive to get into where they need to be, which is melee. I did plan out for a little bit.
Have you discussed the Havicks already? A little, yeah. I think my only problem with Havicks is they're five Legionaries. I think if you can get them into a place, you know, you've got one sort of good shooting.
Are they cheap enough for one sort of good shooting, possibly? Maybe. I think there's some scup Havicks with Rip Chain Cannons, two units of them at Avidon. That might be a good anti-green title list.
They do shoot very well. Yeah, they've got some good options. I think two wounds. Two wounds.
Two wounds. 25. It'd be nice if they went up to like three. Yeah.
So they're slightly in a bit more grabsy boys. Yeah. T5 three wounds every day of the week. Yeah.
I'm just not 100% sold. I might as well try having some to start the edition. The stupidest, stupidest, Vashtor. Why did games watch up, sit down?
Great such a cool looking miniature and go. That's just having to perpetuate shit. Like you could get Vashtor down from 190 points to 150. People still won't take him.
But how many people want to do this? 190. He's completely unusable. Because again, he's not a lone op.
He's not got any of the defensive stats of a demon prime arc. And yet he's meant to be vying for the chaos gods. The guy is awful. I'm hoping for the lower guard that this godex comes out.
We've got a cognitive Vashtor detachment. What you actually want is that for them to put him up to 300 points. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who am I?
400, but he's the same as Montairean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same as Magnus. Because that's what he's meant to be.
Weird change that they just refuse to bring him down. I suspect chaos haven't had too much love because the codec is going to be out in a moment because possibly today might be the announce. Dark Angels will be a quicker one to bomb through because there's a lot less models. Definitely likes down 20 points.
Good change. Yeah, they're a really durable unit. Don't know if I'll take them because their lethality for their points value is still not there. You're not going to, you're not going to move through something with them.
The damage to weapons ready be one. The AP2 weapons damage one. You're not, yes, that's ranked six, but I still think that you're just going to, with an OC one unit that doesn't dive already easily because she's targeted on objective. So I think they may be needed.
And I'll mention this before I'm over. I think Dark Angels still need some index changes. I think that there's just a few things where the problem isn't the points. It's the data sheet.
And if you reduce them enough in points that they become worthwhile, you're going to have, you know, it would really weird looking armies that aren't really functional. But I think if they increase the damage on the sword and the AP on the mess, sorry, the damage on the sword and the mess go two, three, five points every day of the week with damage to your power sword like a blade guard veteran and the damage to three mess like they used to have a thumb back at the two, three, five and they're amazing. Definitely turn it as we come down to 180. I think that's five points more expensive than the normal time of the matter, which is good.
I think turn it as just again a weird point, so it's chaos. They're not fast. They're not as durable as they should be. There's nothing in the Dark Angels index that really makes them, sorry, codex that makes them more durable.
You've got a minus one to wound if you strength greater than the toughness one CP. Yeah, which is quite nice. But again, that's one unit and you still want to know what, you might be selling them on three or fours. I don't know if there's much play in them.
The two big changes that I'm hoping will see some difference. But again, I do think it's John Olds only I want it all. I think they need to just fund metal rules changes in a circle of companions down from, I think, 115 points, certain 90, which is great. They were overcasted, massively overcasted because they, they just objectfully not very good, which is a shame because they're some of the best looking models in the space marine, kind of a whole space marine roster.
But at 90 points, they've got an AP1 power sword and no invulnerable save. They've got veterans on 90 points. So an AP2 damage to two power sword and a four of them are vulnerable save. And everyone wants to hit or ones on their invulnerable save.
So in circle companions, you take a character, your minus one to hit, which is quite nice. And if you take a, if you're attacking a character unit, you'll plus one to wound, I think. So there's some play there, but without any invulnerable save, they just get shot. They'll just get killed.
We were talking about a towel before this. I know that the crisis took him up, but there's so much AP2, AP3, AP4 that there is. I think they'll still get shot. But you're encouraged to take them maybe with Azriel for the four of them vulnerable or a librarian for the four of them vulnerable.
But Azriel, the CP is far too valuable. And he's still a bad place to help last this, so I don't think Azriel's going to be run around with them. I think they were probably designed for something else. Those are very nice and tall.
Yeah, and I think the, with Azmedai, the four of your roles are hit into walks. This is some play because they get sustained too on one of their profiles. And the AP one doesn't matter as much into walks. So I think there is some play with them, but I think that they've not really gotten right for what they meant to do.
Definitely some meant to be your demon prince slaying, like they're the elite of the elite of the elite. They should be slaying demon prince, that should be what they're going to do. And now they're still marines. In a circle of companions in the lore, have these silent warriors that appear in the thickest, but you know, once in the battlefield, they are veterans of the heresy.
Some of them are 1,000 years old. Like they're old guys. They shouldn't be killing orcs. They should be killing tournament equivalents.
So I think they've got more playing out there cheaper, but I think I'd say we take them to play guard veterans. I will give them a run with my Dark Angels. See one of them? Five and ten.
Nope. Three and sixes. And this is the biggest change that ace marines could have is the Razorback equivalent transport capacity going from six to seven. Because, yeah, because when you play guard in a character, you're in circles in character.
Because if you get them in an impulse, a repulsor impulse, it's the transport. You can get them on those. Yeah, they'll play. Because you drive that up, put it on an objective, you destroy it.
They jump out and they've got three wounds. They're a little durable. Yeah. They're that oddly durable.
But you have to actually commit to kill them. Yeah, you're going to be able to do that by mistake. Rather than, but until they change the transport capacity on those things. It's just weird.
Why have it at six when so many of the elite infantry units are? Three to six. And that's weird. I think they probably meant to be a command squad.
You've got standards. You've got this almost like a two to see is time thing. I think when they were designed probably four or five years ago, they were meant to be a this is your new Dark Angels command squad. If you don't get anything for the banner, you don't get anything for this incense burner.
There's nothing. They've even got these like, brazey, eye and halo things on their power packs. No. If they had that in built mice once a hit as a result of all the smoke, like maybe like this guy's got shisha lounge going around with them.
And then the final change was to Lionel Johnson, he came down 50 points, which I think might have been the single biggest points drop. That was a big points drop. I still don't think he's going to see play. I don't he's a character they've never known what to do with when he dropped the ninth.
He was not good. He had one more luck trip, whereas all the primary equivalents have three. Mottari and Abadon, Gasco, they all had three. He had one start 10th edition.
He was great, but over costed. Codex Lion is worse than I come back to him. Gilliam, he's a worse than I come back to him. Gasco, he's not, again, he's mentally the monster slayer.
That's his whole thing. The whole Codex lore around him is he'll vanish for a week and return. He's just killed three demon princes. We still killed him Prince of Mele.
Yeah. He's going to get bogged down by 10 space runs. Yes, he will. He will.
He's got a damage one power sword now. This sweet profile is damage one. Gas is still damage two. Gas is still damage two.
It's now damage two. Yeah, now exists. So I think he's still going to get bogged down. His problem is that non-fundamentally, none of his abilities, his commander abilities buff.
You get like plus one to hit or plus one to wound or something and then I, for one of them. But within a circle of attachment, you're getting plus one to wound and a lot of things happen three. You've got over a moment. It's a weird one.
The other one is a four up fill in the pantheon, small wounds, which is what he's previously was meant for devs. And now he doesn't protect him from devs. He's lost his money to wounds, so he's no end here as durable as you can get him. You almost want to see the play testing notes from the dark and credit side.
What were you doing with them that made you think this was the right way? Who was it? They ran one of the various YouTube channels, ran them into Admec. And the top of the comment was, of course, you'd have to run into Admec to get them a win.
And that's kind of a joke about the point the product was in. I'm really going to give them a good try now that the points change. I just think that they've not known what to do here in the same way that the custod's won. We don't really know what we're doing with some of these units, but the lion at 300 points, I think he's still overcasted.
He's barely putting out more damage than a demon prince. He's got low knock, but he needs to stay within three inches of infantry unit. He moves eight inches. He can tell me he's moved five.
So you're either slowing the lion back when you're advancing your turn, or you can't charge because there's no advance in charging the inner circle attachment. None of the... Yeah, it's weird. I think all I'd really say is chaos will be fixed when the product comes out.
I'm hoping the awkward guy's written it because then it'll be fun and awesome. Dark Angels, the biggest change they could have done with is changing the inner circle attachment so that it affects all death wing units, not just infantry, and changes the strategy. So they affect all of the units and not just infantry. Give the lion the death wing keyword, weird that he doesn't.
He doesn't have Ravenwing, he doesn't have Deathwing, he doesn't have a circle. He's just not invited. He's arrived and no one wants him to join the club, or maybe he's too nervous to ask. He has no social skills after all.
He's waiting for an invite that's not coming, and they've assumed he's invited. I don't know, but I think you need to get him down to maybe 260, 250 before he's really going to start to see some serious play. Did you say like the other week that 300 would be happy? Well, I predicted 300.
Not to put the receipts. I'll find that message. I predicted 300. I think that's what I'm not saying about the working.
I predicted 300. I predicted 90 for the inner circle companions. I think the inner circle companions, without rules changing, they're dropping another 10. It's that blag guard equivalent, they don't match up.
The lion, just give me my index lion back. No one was running him then. Nobody was running him. Index lion, 320 points.
Then he's a problem. I think he's good. But yeah, I think they still don't know what to do with Dark Angels. They need an island slate, not just an MFM.
Chaos, I think there's been some nice genuine nice changes. I think any of the issues in case I've got the Codex coming in a couple of weeks. I don't want this to be a year of crap. I'm going to start now because Jonathan's checking how I've been talking for.
We're at 21 minutes. I do talk for a living. It's roughly Dark Angels. It doesn't bode well for the other part.
I hope so. Because the blood angels are in the sun a little bit. I will talk about them in a second. Just a very minor threat from Death Guard.
They had one point drop, nothing else. It was the how route that came down to 130. No, no, no, no. They're fine.
That happened across the board in every Chaos God X. They all went down. They didn't need anything else. Blood angels though.
It was quite a lot of changes. The Mafistim has come down to 100. I think he would want 10. He's actually a bit of a beast.
He can lead assault with necessities and regular intercessors and a few other units. Give him a fight first. That's nice. He slaps himself.
His blade, I think, does D3 damage. He has 7 attacks. He's actually not too bad. I'm going to find it because he's an auto model as well.
He's a very blood angel character. So 6 attacks normally, 7 on the charge, strength of 9, strength of 11 on the charge. AP3 damage. Good for sword.
It's a really good for sword. He's got a psychic attack that you can do. Put him in with assault with intercessors and they can do some work by having fight first. Dante has stayed the same.
The Death Company Dreadnaw and Death Company intercessors have come down, but no one's really running them. The Death Company intercessors. It's a kind of cool idea to say, oh, even the Primaris can fall to the Black Rage. Because they're going to be...
Yeah. Oh, if you just become Primaris, you're cured. You don't. But no one's running them because I think you can have one Thunder Hammer per five.
But the normal Death Company Marines and the Death Company with Jump Packs have gone up. Because that's what everyone's running. And that makes sense. That's fine.
For the Jump Packs, it's 280 for a brick of 10, which is still really good. They will kill anything you charge. The Sanquin every guard have come down. They're still really quite expensive.
155 for the five or 310 for 10 of them. And then you put Dante with them. That's 430 points. It's a lot.
That's cast-out levels. Yeah. And if they get there, and if they do well, they do work together. Dante and the Sanquin every guard.
I think in an example of the GW knee jerk bad touch, there are some mad lads that have been doing quite well with some good angels. But they're not putting out like 70% win Reds. No. And they've just gone and gone.
Right, let's fix this before it comes to a problem. But the regular Space Marines have... Like the Blood Angel suitable units have seen a punch drop. Like the Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs have come down.
80 points for five models. They are great action monkeys. And actually do quite good in melee. Because they do more on the charge.
Each one that ends in engagement on a four plus they do more. That's only 15 points more than a five-storm voice. Yeah, five points cheaper than Raptors who do no such more. And then you can have two plasma pistols and a power fist in that unit as well.
And then Blood Angels when they charge. Chainsaws are actually pretty good when you charge at strength six. Yeah. The Brutalis Dreadnought is down to 160.
That'd be cool. That's very blood angels as well. Yeah, that was a nice Dark Angels change. Because that 10 man brick with Azrael is down like 30 points.
Lord knows why help-busters are objective if you're good. Yeah, I don't understand why they're coming down. People are still running on them, right? I think it's because the minute the man is in a very melee focused place.
Sure. I think you need some dedicated shooting units to redress that balance. Sure. I think it's probably a gentle Dark Angels tap as well.
But you can now take Azrael at 10 help-busters and it's really really fun to shoot. The Tactical Squad has come down. We were all asking for that one. It's 140 points for a tactical squad at 10 levels.
That's insane. They can split up when you deploy them. You can actually have the old Combat Squad. They're back alone.
Yeah. 12 units of fire. You've tied it is. That's a lot of activations.
I think there's a weird, you could do a weird list with them. Because they get a couple of cool guns in there. You can have a heavy bolt, I think there's a rocket launch you can have in there. Flame heavy bolts, a gravity grab gun, a last kind of melt gun.
Missile launch, a water melt. The plasma gun, a plasma gun. Flame heavy, a plasma gun, a melt gun, a plasma gun. Thunderhammer's power fist, Stormbolt, a plasma pistol, a plasma gun.
Yeah, they've got everything. Is it like one per 10? One tax gun Marine can have a last kind of. Yeah, so big guns per 10.
One tax gun Marine. You can have a melt gun, you can have two melt guns or two plasma guns. I don't know if I have a pistol or a problem. So I can't have two last kinds, but two flame guns.
Sick cryin' those. Two squads in each with a split into like one, basically one melt gun each. Yeah, that could work actually. That'd be fun.
But then yeah, the parking running objective is destroyed. Fiking up front, five get out the back in the room. Yeah, yeah. You heard it first.
And then terminator's down as well. Well they're 175 now. 175? Yeah, and then the terminator's up to what is 185.
No one's using them. Which is true, because they're cool. But they're still the old models. Yeah, no one's using terminator's though.
But yeah, blood angels, you're seeing a lot of blood angels at the moment. I'm playing a bit of them. They're fun. But I think Death Guards have more what it takes.
I think I do still prefer playing Death Guards. Because it's kind of time as maybe. Well, yeah. Something else you think is to remember.
But it's also because you affect your opponents stats as well. It's kind of cool to like interact that way. It's cool to run again. Yeah.
It's like, oh, watch your toughness five. Oh, it's now fours. I'm reading you on twos. No!
Yep. That gives you an excuse not to shower when you play Death Guards. Yeah, that's true. But I think overall the armies I play have kind of only altered.
I would not at all with Death Guards or slightly. I get a bit cleaner. So you might see some different space marine lists. Because it's all just iron storm.
Well, the storm rate went up. It did. Yeah. It's now two forty, two sixty points and something like that.
Two sixty, six, yeah. But I think Vanguard was talking through the storm rate and build. And basically, you think that it's still completely viable. The points changes haven't been enough to stop the storm rate and build.
And their prediction was that it's going to be more of a meta problem now. Because of the changes made elsewhere. Sure. Now, if it's still a build, I think that's true.
That's fine if people genuinely enjoy playing it because games workshops are probably not enough. They kill the play style and not the problem. Yeah. They don't try and balance the problem.
They just kill that way of playing the game. Didn't a lot of the Black Temple Arts stuff go up as well. Which was the Dark Angels. Because that's real weirdly.
And the worry for Dark Angels was that Azrael was going to go up because of it. Yeah, I think a lot of the Black Temple Arts vehicles went up. Yeah, the. Gladier.
One out. They were iron storm. Black Temple Arts was my popularly to the iron storm. And it was because you could suck them out of the metal or everything for five points.
Yeah. But I think that the Dark Angels won't just go to the new one. It's still actually very good now. I think it's like a 71% win rate last weekend.
I know you're a ward of it. I wish these divergent chapters you could only run Gladius or your unique ones. You're a 7 out of 9 options. It's just meaning you play them out.
Because no, but you're a 10 just play. You didn't start the Angels because you wanted to play 25 tanks. Did you? I do like the tanks.
But yes, I like the don't catch more and I want to fly around a bunch of people. But it's a 10 chaos. I can't wait until I've got eight attachments because I don't. We're actually enjoying the communication.
I don't. I'd much rather be running terminators and chosen because the Black Legion is meant to be at least infantry that runs spearhead assaults. Yeah. So yeah.
But angels. I'd be very good in talks as well. I could get you for five trains. Sure.
I don't get it. 120 boys. I'm still stuck. Stack them up so there's no metal end.
Yeah. You have to, you have to, if you were 20, 21 models with a leader. But you can place up the two inches. Yeah.
Even then like you're really sitting here and eight inches deep. And 10 inches wide. I mean, he's doing a couple of that. She got to place the next set.
Three inches back. You can go up the Grops in a line. So that's just the no different for land. My armies.
Yeah. Codex has spoken about for them. So we've got custodes and orcs. So everything's shown as a drop because it is a drop from the Codex.
But for custodes the stuff that's actually dropped is the characters. So Bay champions come down I think 10 points. The shield captains are the same. Trajan's come down 10 points, which I don't think that makes up for what you lost.
But say that they, the Lirium has come down a whopping five points. Oh, I think you've got a custom list. That's the only changes in the actual customs. I think how many assassins have gone up?
Yes. The color does as it's 15 points. I think it went up by 10. I think it's a trading point.
Yeah. Yeah. Which is fine. I, it went up the actual search document.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure the color does run up by 10. Which is, yeah, that's sensible. The color does is very, very good everywhere.
Yes. 100. Yeah. You can also, you can quite easily run the adversary in custodes.
Obviously it's not quite as good. But then you get some more points. I actually think that the point is why it's fine. There's no problem with the data sheets on custodes.
Wardens are still good. Guard are still good. All the units individually. I think that, as I've been discussing the length online, the weakness is just the, the detachments don't do what they set out to do.
Sure. There is some pretty cool stuff that you can do. It's going to be hard, like the current, the name of the sister's attachment. You can take the famous sicano rhinos, which aren't famous sicano unit.
And you can use that to buff the custodes units within six of each of our homeroher works, which means you can buff a land raver, and then have your units in transports, and then drive in a bunch of custodians, a bunch of allaras, custodians, in a land raver, with some sisters providing the support for them. That's pretty somatic and cool. Yeah. Don't have strong ideas, but land ravers are a good data sheet.
Allaras, custodians are a good data sheet. Probably fine. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, custodians are still strong.
They're still survival, they're still killing. So they'll still see play, but I just don't think. They're just aggressive. No, they lost a little bit of what made them such a force in the meta.
And some of the things that were taken away from them, I'm not sure needed to be. I would have rather been traded and losing fight first on the moment, Jackal. And having his normal eyes normalized, I think he probably could have just seen maybe point and point increase if he goes up by ten. Fine.
Yeah, I think it's just awkward. I think the rules don't support them. I don't think it's going to be as fun to play, and they weren't that fun to play. Anyway, so, we'll see.
I'm sure somebody will crack something. The list that I've seen floating around are for the Auric host, and it's basically how many non-codeex units can we play in the Custodas, like three Cladius, and Chameus Rex, Curia Draxis, a couple of Shield Captains, and as well as Chameus. So you play more non-codeex units than you are a codeex unit. Which is the thing, it's a bad place, isn't it?
Yeah, it does sound fun, though. It does sound fun. Especially having Chameus Rex just rocking around the table. You're such a beast.
But we'll see, I haven't done too much looking into the Custodas meta because my other army is far more exciting, far more interesting, and that's Orcs. In terms of actual drops that are just index to codex, the hampino, the flashkits came down, because bad rocks have been moved to Legends, so flashkits just aren't really good anymore. They're all bad rockers. But looters are quite happy to step up and take their place.
Especially in the mech, the Dreadwath attachment, looters are going to be, if anyone played in 8th edition, the looter Death Star is possibly back. Yeah, they're strength 8 AP1 for 1 damage, normally they hit on 6s with a heavy, you can attach a mech to the unit, and then you get access to the push button table. So from a 24 inches from a full squad, you get 24 shots, if you're shooting at something on an objective, you'll re-roll in all hits, and sustain lethal or additional AP, you don't care which one. They become quite an nasty shooting unit.
So with the push button abilities, are you typically rolling to see what you get in or are you probably going to get in with looters? I think you're pretty fine, because you don't give them hazardous, because you destroy all of your net. But they are 100 points for 10, and in fact you get 8 looters and 2 spiners, which can have a array of weapons. They're also in shine up in a lot of lists, there's just a 5 man for 50 points, just fill out trucks and sit on an objective for them.
I think they're decent. The other big change, well to the Square Cog boys, who have gone, the unit size has changed from 3 to 6. So there used to be 3 or 6, now they're 4, 8 because the knob on Smash Square has been rolled into the unit. It took 2 knobs in the unit, so it's because it's that hard to build.
What it does mean is now you can have 6 regular boys, 2 knobs, and a B-sposs on Swiggersaur leading them, which is nice. You can give the B-sposs on Swiggersaur the enhancement for Minus 1 to wound in the Great Hunt, and now they just have that done. That is a big unit, it's a big footprint, it is very difficult to shift, and it is going to kill wherever it comes from. You can scout with another unit, so the enhancement doesn't hit the scout on Minus 1 to win.
In the Great Hunt, you have 2 or 3 of those units, 1 led by Mozrog, 2 led by B-sposses, 1 with the scout, 1 with the Minus 1 to win. And throw out at the board, 2 happens, with the 9 inch scout, you can probably get a turn 1 charge, because you scout 9, move 10, and then charge. I feel the extra sourcey. Just for the advance in charge, and they can't be slowed.
So I've dreamed the best list for you one. And weirdly, one of the most important things is one of the units that didn't change in points cost, and that's the Meganobs. They stayed at 30 points, which is frankly ridiculous. I think 35 would still make them good.
I think 40 is probably reasonable, anything above that you're probably not taking some, but not so many. They almost wouldn't be different, I know that the game structure wouldn't do this, but if they were a little more expensive than bully boys, that would be a balancing factor. And they still have the incredible flexible unit size, so you can take, I think it's 2, 4 or 5 or 6. It's probably 2, 3.
I think it is just 2, 3. 2, 3, 5 or 6. Where are they? They take 2, 3, 5 or 6, because the box is 3, but you can build on to a big neck.
So you only can't take 4. 5 in a character fits in a truck. Wow. Yeah.
So you can have 5 Meganobs, a war boss in Megorama, in a truck that comes to 325 points, and they won't die. They'll wire twice and they'll kill most things when they touch. You can even just use the truck for 3-intersection movements, so you can start them in 3 inches out, move up, jump your knobs into the truck, drive your knobs at the board as well. So there's some proper tricking.
I've seen lists ring, just 2 trucks, not for the shield things, but just for those that's given my Meganobs, 3-intersection movements and what? And then jump my knobs in. Just to get into the next room, to stage from 2 to 2, you are. To the 2, you are, you get real deep into any lines, to the 3, you are, you get to the rest of the only lines.
Exactly. Things like, you can only enhance them since head stomper. It's like the big gob I think it is. They take a power truck test at minus 1, so you can charge in, take a power truck test at minus 1.
No armor if you can come to now, if you fail. No interrupt. Or even, you fail that, yes, I'm going to throw CT control in your command phase, and I've just scored capture enemy out of post. You've done something.
And there's also a stratagem that forces death and breaks out. Yeah. And obviously, if you failed to power truck, you're minus 1 for that. I've discussed the things going on with that.
You can run from a squad, once with 3, you die. Wow. Yeah. You want to fall back?
Pick up after you hit it. Heh, heh, heh. I killed a hectare man fortress in my hotel game, he was like, yeah, I'm going to fall back. I told him, he was like, yeah, and you have to risk it.
Roll the wall, all right, pick it up. But I'm regardless of any other... Yeah, because I consolidated into it, he was like, I need to shoot at you. He was like, okay.
1 CP, do you pick it up? You know, right, goodbye. I've got a lot of work in temp as well, which is insane mega, just minus 1 AP. What?
Yeah. The bully, bully strategies are, I'll give you that in the Waa version. So it's, we roll all hits for 1 CP. Yeah.
Mortals on the charge for 1 CP. Up to 6 as well, isn't it? So for each, you roll those 3 to 1 when you're using it. Darking does this up to 3, but here we are.
Um, best with breakout. Um, drag it down. Minus 1 AP. Oh, no, he's throwing me up.
Sorry, I'm sorry. Uh, we roll hits, minus 1 AP. Mortals on the charge. Best with breakout.
Sorry, I get to die. Oh, no. Fight on death on the 3 up during the Waa, 5 up in the Waa. Um, and, and...
Did you want to consult with that one? Oh, the 6 in control. Yeah. It's D3 plus 3 outside of the Waa.
6 in the Waa. You can't run. So, like, oh, oh, my Mega knobs only move 5. Fine.
They go with rants and charge for 2-turn. They go with consolidators. 6 in just like at least once. Oh, we were talking more than 2 CP in the round until you could do some real.