welcome back in the flesh and United Kingdom in England it's the Buckwheel Wheel Hickey. Pleasure to have you here mate. Pleasure to be here mate. Pleasure to be here mate.
It was weird being here in person on the other side of the computer. Exactly, normally it's a screen where you're looking at the person's face in the screen. You're looking at the camera so you're never making eye contact. Yeah.
Legitmentally. But this is it, RKD and Buckwheel face to face. Breaking some shit down here. Yep, we're going to break down some serious business right here.
Also be my serious business that we could actually talk about mate. Yeah. Big deal right. Big deal.
So much for Big deal. This is just the prelims. This is the build up to the main event. Yep.
And they've got a servo tournament going on so stay tuned with that. This is the event after. Don't worry. The event's going to keep coming.
We're going to do the all-star all-time greatest skater. All-stars. Maybe all-stars. Yeah, double all-stars there.
So double all- you know. Triple all-stars. Whatever you want to call it mate. Five time.
All-five time. Five time. Five time. Five time.
All-stars. But this episode you've seen the thumbnail. You've clicked on it. This is a draft.
So, we've been talking with this game today. A good time. A good session mate down at entrance gate park. The OSCE in the back of the home mate.
OSCE. Way back. No longer affiliated. But we want to work.
We want to work. We want to work. But we've been chatting. Just say you do have a stake.
Just chatting about people's styles. Top skaters and then just breaking things down. Who had the best answer and the best out. And then we're like, we've never really spoke about who is the greatest.
The best. And we'll break it down a little bit. We style all doesn't count as much as you like. Think it does.
Yeah, so unfortunately style obviously matters in skateboarding. But for the being the best, best looking for best all-rounders. Not style unfortunately. But otherwise someone could just be going to kick the ball game with the best style and claim the best skater.
So we've got to make it fair. But that makes it a lot harder. Yeah, and you might be hating on us. So we've got a list of maybe like 25 skaters in front of us.
We feel a top tier skaters. There's going to be some skaters that are less than throwing ones out that aren't on the list mate. Josh Halis. Right?
One of your inspirations surely. Yeah. So, a cheler, a very healer. Traitor.
Traitor. Mani man. Yeah. Not your favorites.
Not your favorites. You're top tier. We're talking about that next level of skateboarder. Put it out there.
Tony Hawk, this is where we're talking about. Tony Hawk isn't going to get there. Yeah, he's not one of the top 10 best skater of all time. He doesn't take any of the away from what he's done.
He grew up building the community probably bigger than anyone else has. But there's obviously people that's surpassed that. He's done a 900. He's done a 900.
Yeah. But he hasn't, I can say he hasn't progressed as well. That's bang out. He did progress in massively.
But in terms of doing a switch trail. That's what we're getting at. Yeah, exactly. If you're throwing switch trades, you're probably not going to be on this list.
Yeah. That's what we're getting to. So, if you understand, if you understand, we're going to go for these names. Basically, we want to get this down to a top 10.
So, what we do with the actual stars, we want 10 to pick one. Because it'd be too heavy. They'd be way too heavy. Yeah.
So, we're doing the groundwork for the big fun episode. We're going to get these down. So, I just fire off these names. Yep.
Just a list. I've got an idea. You can mark it up. We might even, maybe on Instagram, I'll put the names on the, you know, on the thumbnails.
You can keep telling if you want on your own. These are in no particular order. These are just where they, where they fell. So, we've got PJ Lad, Chris Cole, Danny Way, Dayone Son, Cordray Gez, Nigel Houston, Mike Mo, Tom Penny, Eric Coston, Rodney Mullen, Jeff Rowley, Andrew Reynolds, Wes Kramer, Dennis Buesenitz, Chris Jostin, Heath Kurt Jard, Shane O'Neill, Mark Johnson, Mike Harrell, Mark Appleyard, Ryan Shekler, Stevie Williams, Tommy Guns, Jamie Thomas, Jamie Foy, Musker, Miles Silver, Roon Bliffberg, Dory Pugwell.
And who the fuck is that on there? Can you make that one out? Guy Mariano. Guy Mariano.
Guy Mariano. And Bastion Sellebanzi. Heavy list mate. Heavy list mate.
So, I think, should we work our way down a list and just see who fits the bill? Yeah. We really don't think they're top five material. We've got to put up to the side.
I know they're getting to the top ten, but we can kind of, if someone feels the top ten, we'll put a little dot next to the name or something. I mean, we'll just put a moving through. We really don't think they're going to get there. They're going to have to put it by the way.
So, I'm just a fair plate. They're not close, but they're not on the absolute. All-star material. All-star material mate.
All-star material. So, first on the list is PJ Lad. I think he needs to go through the next round with me. I'm right there with you.
PJ Lad, probably one of the most consistent skaters on the planet. Great lines. Great legstrokes. If this was all-time tech skaters, he would be in top five.
Surely. Surely. Surely. So, let's just put a little dot next to PJ Lad.
He's going through. Hopefully, you're going to see him in the next episode with me. Allow me the absolute rule of stars. Easy one for me on the next one.
Easy one for you on the next one. Two times to get it a year. Chris Cole. You can't argue with it.
Think about everything he's done. Not hardly anyone's doing that sort of thing. Yeah, the Cobra's got to be there, right? Stairs.
Rail. Black ground. Legge. All-out-name.
Yeah, with the lessons of tech going through everything. Yep. Big tech. Next name mate.
Next name. Danny Way. Again. I mean, this is hard.
This is why it's so difficult to call a narrow enough of a stand. Because we're going to go through all this lists. Yeah, it's going to be hard not to put in that top ten. But we're going to have to try and be straight.
Danny Way on the other hand. He is in. You know, great streets get right back in the day for some of the youngsters. Go check it out, but he's doing bits.
And just everything he's done. Mega ramp. But things like Guinness World Records. I don't think too much about them.
But when you've done handfuls of them, you know, you're breaking the steel and you're breaking height, you're breaking distances and everything. In the same time. In the same runway. Distance and height in the same run.
You're doing something that no, you know, people aren't beating that and that's been out for a long time. But he's taking the D way. He's in. He's in.
Next, this is, I mean, this is hard. Next, again, it's going to be in for me. Yeah. They want some.
I could think of way less reasons why the formatting is really hard. Why would I not? I can't think of any uses. Tech, different level to probably everyone else on this list.
Really? That's all round tech. All round tech made. Even all terrain.
Is he hitting the trade with no side down the line's hover? Not necessarily. But he's doing things that aren't done. Yeah.
And he's been skating for a very long time. They want to be a great team. This is this is this is this is a tougher lot of these skates now because we're already kind of like 40 about 10. We're going to have to say no to people.
I think they might be coming up soon. Probably not the next couple, but soon we're going to have to start. Really thinking really good up. You can see some names down there.
They might not make the cut. Yeah. I like the next man. Ford Regays.
How many of you have you got put him in there, mate? I think he's got to go for it with the amount, you know, that man has one four different sciences and they're all his four best. He can do it all. So he's got to be on the list of me.
So it's switch split backtails on lock. Yep. Means your over certain caliber. Switch trades on lock down shit.
Set caliber. 100%. Yeah. Not many people are doing it or have ever done it.
No one could be controversial on some people's eyes, but I think if you actually look for your, you know, just no roasting the glasses, no prejudice, anything like that, this next man I think has to be on there. Yeah. Without a doubt. How can someone be the highest probably the highest paying skateboarder ever?
That's not the kiddie shit. Not the kiddie's good at self-adercises because he is that. He lands tricks, mate. He lands big tricks.
He lands big tricks, you know, and he hasn't put a bad part out. Yeah. And do you think, has anyone seen big rounds in the future? Probably a couple people around that sort of level, but are they, are they beating it?
They might have won clip. Not a whole part, you know, ten minute part or something like that. So that reason, Nigel is moving through. Next one's a tricky one mate.
This is a head in a heart sort situation, Mike Mocopaldi. Generational talent. Yeah. If he didn't have his accident with a gold car and all that sort of stuff, we would be talking, I mean, what parts would you put out?
How many more? Yeah. You know, whenever that happened, maybe that happened in like 2010. Let's just say 2010, 2015 in that pocket.
There's been ten years of no-sable and would like be at the top. If he was the legendator, there is me and how quirky as Drais and all that sort of stuff. What we would have seen, if he was on his, the top of his game would have been fucking unholy. It would have been insane.
But is he all round enough to make the list? To me, it doesn't look like it. When all the names are front of us, it doesn't look like he's going to make the cut. When I think, you know, obviously a lot of the people have extremely different styles, but Mike Mo, Heavy Streets here, P-Rod, Heavy Streets here, does Mike Mo better than P-Rod?
He might be him in a game of skate, but on ledge and everything else, I'm glad you know. He's not. And, you know, growing up P-Rod wasn't my favourite skater. The old guy, the old guy, I've come to really, and I think he's got more of mine than he would.
Yeah, exactly. He's like, what I mean, he's like, I love his scripts now. You know, him and a dunk. Yeah, great.
Everything's working. Everything's working. He doesn't put a shit clip out. He wouldn't put a shit clip out there.
No. No. No. Mike Mo had the big part.
Yep. Huge, huge part. I call it generational. Yeah.
Everyone. Go down forever. The first part of me, over-shatter is pretty much everything. And he wasn't even pro at the time.
Super young. Yeah. So, you know, unfortunately we're going to have to skip him. Thank you.
This is a super hard one. I've got a personal opinion. We'll be in... I don't know.
I regard him as a good fucking mate. He has to fucking Tom Penny. This is what P-Rod listeners, Tom Penny told me, he might have told me, he might not have to. Will was his favourite skater in Oxford.
He did say it by the way. He told me that a bit. Yeah. Legit.
This isn't... Yeah. No shit. And you're probably my favourite skater, not to his own mate.
So, you know, he's like, it tastes never been. But just because, you know, we've got shoulders with Mr Penny, doesn't necessarily mean he makes the cut. We're not talking style. We're not talking like icon.
We're not talking trick selection. We're not talking just absolute, just flow. We're talking about absolute top tier of technicians or go to the Great Wall of China. Yeah, exactly.
And I don't think Penny gets them. Agreed. As much as we both love Penny. The style can almost blind you.
You know, how many people land in tricks with their hands down, with that style? Not no one. We watched really sorry. Yeah.
And, to our selection, tech, you know, we're talking switchblip manis and janky fucking like, way out situation. It's back to you at the right time, hitting the nolly. We can hit the one eight, one of those, right, three six, the all the way around. One like a, one like a short situation.
Trick selection. No one's question. Favourite skaters. We're not talking favourite skaters.
Yeah. We're not with. If this was a favourite skater or style skaters that was, he'd be in the top five, probably in the top three. But unfortunately, he's probably not on the list.
He's probably not on the list. Again, another name that's probably super important to you mate. I'd say super important to most skateboards. A lot of skateboards, especially from that.
Is Eric Austin. Yeah. You know, the yeah right part, the flip back lip on the outrail mate. You know, that, that's a mellow, tall rail out meset.
Yeah. Danger mill. No, you know, the board, you've got to make sure that slides, because it doesn't have to go in, it's just let it slide for you. You will land on that rail if you miss it.
If you miss anything on the rail, it was heavy, heavy here. Switch race, you know, all the works. I just don't think he is refined. Because people want to beat me out of wire, but people want to be so clean mate.
He's perfect. And he can just do every trick, every way. Austin's a great choice to be on this one is up list. I'm sure some of you'll be screaming for it.
But same as time panning, you know, the camper panning on, probably campering. Exactly. Probably another controversial one coming up mate, but we're going to have to lay law down, Godfather of State, but modern street skateboarding, Rodney Mullen. You may have invented the kicklet mate, and I'll use the line I used earlier.
You may have invented it. You ain't got to clean this kicklet. Where's Ryan Descente, though? Or when?
I'll just go come up later on. And that's it. And I think, you know, him and the day one son were in that similar category, but day one son has that little bit more outreach of trying to skate around actual street as in more A to B spots, more lines. But Rodney Mullen's kind of slightly more on the street street, greased outside.
Not taking anything away from him, but that's why he likes to do. And I'm not taking anything away from him. The reason why we picked these skates, we went for these skates earlier, you know, took us a while mate. Yeah.
It took us a couple of beers and a joint to fucking really get us down. We have time to really be at what should you say to be at top tier skate videos. Went through every team we could think of, and you know, so many more names in this. We're throwing out.
Like a step in Jawski. Jawski's on this list. In should I wear? None the list.
Some of our favourite skates, but you've really got to take your personal carry gets. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, we're not talking about your influences. You know, the ones you thought are the best kick, the meanest on the best backs I've lived. We're talking about who really handled the business.
The best. The best. I don't think Mullen's getting it made. No, no, I agree.
The next two very fucking hard ones. Super hard ones. Yeah, then. The first one we're going to talk about is Jeff Rowley.
Rowley, this should be a nice one. One of my favourite skates at all times. Definitely my top five skates at all times. I'm not sure if he gets it mate.
I'm not sure if he makes it. As much as I'd like to see him on the list, he's a little bit back on the technical side compared to some of the other guys. Obviously, not a factor in big scale. That's why the reason why it's on the list is on that next level.
Big shit, big banks, big sewer systems, big rails, big hollers. So yeah, I think you're right. So we'll have to just, you know, we could come back and we'd get them on, but yeah, I can't see it. And he's competing up against another person who could struggle to get on this all time.
Let's just Andrew Reynolds. Again, one of my great, one of my influences mate. Again, Jeff, you know, their front-side level is they did the kick clips, they jumped down some shit. They liked a little bit of tech, but it wasn't their thing.
But they tried to play the trade. They were good at it mate. They were good. But they were more than, what can we do it?
What can we eat? If I can kick it down this, that's if we can do it. We're going to have a full cab down there. Let's see if I can do it.
They're quite similar skates mate. They've got the moves. Yeah, definitely very similar in their own ways. Then say, like, fucking like, how Andrew Reynolds gets out on his team, but what can we do?
We'll have to just breeze pass mate. Unfortunately, that's what it is. And then what we're talking about, so these next two skaters, come up on the list, or some skates for their own right, completely different skates mate. We've got a familiarity to them.
There's an aura that kind of blokes over both of these dudes. Both of these guys get shit done. And we're talking about Wes Kramer and Dennis Boozins here. So Kramer just put himself in a tour mate.
He's getting on the clips. He's getting on the clips. He's the back moment of view of you crew. He's getting on the clips.
Dennis Boozins, again, if you're on an added guest tour mate, you've probably going to hit some spots. You're going to get amped up for someone doing a kick with them, like a million miles an hour. Putting it in a line. And almost taking fear away that people who've got me too technical in their lines.
It's like, you're hammering it and you're going to kick the mate and it's fucking stomped. Yeah. Do that first because maybe doing a nolly tray before the stupid, the massive hover might be a bad idea because you're going to hit it in your own head. You're going to keep whipping the fucking mess up with a nolly tray.
You're not even ready for that. You need to get that. Keep it simple. Get a nice clean trick.
Exactly. Just hit the trick. Neither of them, for me, mate, are really getting to these all these levels just yet. Yeah.
And whether you're there's, whether you're right there. They're in their own lanes for sure, but that's all we can do. Skater skaters. Yeah.
So, you're on tour with you, who's always me. They're going to be eating the sash. They're going to be a great tour. Yeah.
Jump down it. It's fine. It's all right. We're going to get you to get it.
It's cool. Yeah. Don't worry about it. But yeah, I can't see him.
I go to the man in the middle here, mate. Fastly salabans it. Now, this is a tough one. This is a really tough one.
Watch his part. And it was well ahead of his time. Really well ahead of his time. And he's always had really technical tricks as well at that era of really sorry and before and just after.
But obviously kind of disappeared for a little bit. You don't think around France you kind of laid low for a day. He's worked up more recently. But obviously not on a cavalry.
Well, it's still a great skater. Yeah, a cool couple of me. A lot. A big clip still.
But anyway, it's a chill. It's still a top tier. But I think that kind of hiatus from top tier pro seing does go against you a little bit. It does.
You know, you didn't see the clips. You weren't on the up-reche on of seagulling. So I can't put it on anything, mate. We haven't got the quantity of a lot of these guys have been doing what they do best.
tentally done. Yeah. So, we're all hard there. These are all hard there.
We pick these guys. This is what's hard for us. We selected these and now we have to chop them down. This is a very hard one.
Modern day skater. Probably one of the top tier pro is going right now. Yeah. In the jet bro.
Handles business. Chris Jossner. Battle of the barracks winner. Huge gap skater.
We're only consistent. Drake, I'll be able to make. The waltz was doing it. We discussed it earlier.
So make broken truckers have made me. It wasn't like he landed and stumbled and slipped or grabbed something. The truck turned on him. What's he going to do?
It's a broken board. You broke the board and you broke it. You started on him. It is a broken board.
You started down and we onstage. It is a big, big, big. It is a big, big. It is a big big.
It is a big, big, big. It is a big, big, big. It is a big, big. It is a big, big.
It is a big, big. It slows you down, but you've moved. Same principle I think. He has rolled away.
I want to put a dot next to his name, mate. I would be upset again from the Calgary. Yeah. You've tracked it.
You are talking. You know, a one up on Reynolds. He's done a straight look down with Davis, Reynolds and a kicklet. Yeah.
So, big difference. Huge difference. Next name, we've just watched his part, made it in minefield. He's a coach at a great style, good to see him, you know, a six foot plus bloke handling business, doing big backs off lips, getting taken there as well, mate.
Well, round to skate, but no, back to obviously, we know, going down the spots you don't want to skate. You look at it. Someone could take that. It's only someone who could actually do that.
I can't see him in top of that. Very close. That's way down the list. Okay, so we'll move on to next boy, Shano Neil.
For me, generational talent, he's on the big boy, obviously he's on the big boy, obviously he's done his own thing with it. I don't know if that's a little bit of a persistent job with it. It must be a little bit of a rub and shoulders there. I don't know, because it was quite a harmonious finish.
It was cool. It wasn't like he just jumped ship. It felt like it was a slow deal. It was a side mission.
It was a big time. He started being a main event mate. Especially come from Australia, he's got the whole country behind him. He's got the ball kind of thing.
Yeah, exactly. So, one of the most tech, you know, one of the most techs here is Al I'd say. We've got to put it on next, we've got to put it on next. He's too efficient with his feet.
He's so technical, so technical with C's. Obviously, we're not saying styles matter of things, but it does help you. There's lots of board control. Talking about Borgon-Dromate, Mark Johnson.
This is hard. This is really hard. I'd say arguably he's had the best part of all time. He's a buddy player.
Three songs. Three songs. Three songs. From some of the best legend, man, he can't go.
I'd probably be out of sync. Blunt to blunt. No, blunt to blunt. Yeah, we get to know his bunt to switch notes.
This is the sort of skate we're talking about. This is super hard. He's a dash round on a dot name. That's doable.
Yeah, we're getting a little bit. I feel like he's close. We don't have to forget it. He's closer.
He's just that good. He's done things and moved the skateboard anyways. He loads a big shit. Yeah.
But maybe he could have done it. He's got a lot of manuals. Yeah. And a double dot there.
Just as a little signifier for him. Moving on to probably everyone's favorite skateboarder, Mark Appleyard. This is a tough one. This is a tough one.
Is he up there? No. But do you want to watch your skate over everyone else? Yes.
But this is what we're talking about, right? Unfortunately, as much as I'd love to put him on the list. He's just got to what he does, isn't he? Really good at what he does.
He's got really good tricks and actually really good tricks and actually. And it's basics. And it's not all the basics. Yeah.
If you need a backlit down something, that's not talking about basics, mate. You can throw any trick that he can take them to the top level. Take it to the street. You know, backlit.
Kick lips. Back, tray flips. Legitrix. Flip in.
Yeah, crucks. Thank you, Flip, crucks. All of that. Yeah, drain outside.
Bit backtail. Yeah. We're not just spewing that Mark Appleyard would be an everyone's top 5 skater. But we're going for this real skill set.
I don't think he's making it. I think he's over. So we'll move on to another lad who excelled in big gaps, skating. Yeah.
It has to have a mention, mate. We have a mention. Probably a lot of people would maybe frown upon it. He was a bit of a post-it boy.
He was a bit of a lot of payback in the day. But a real scale recognizes that some of the kick lips down the fucking biggest gaps at all time. Yeah. And back up lips.
The fucking everything. Ryan Shekler. Yeah. Mate, he broke some barriers.
Big barriers. I think, you know, kind of a pre-90 really is winning all the competitions at a young age. It's from an elder at a young age. And the rest with it.
And he handled it well, mate. Really? That line, mate. Yeah.
That's a lad. I think he handled that pretty much well. It's been hard for anyone, especially at a being at that sort of age. Yeah.
I think I've done that. Any better at all? No, yeah, I've done it. I've definitely done it.
I've done it. Who isn't on this list? I think we can agree that Shekler doesn't really make a cut top top 10. We've got Nigel on that.
We've got Nigel. There's much to Nigel, but they do the same. They're in the same category. Street and concert.
You know, we're not putting Penny, Costan, Rowley Reynolds. I don't think Shekler can, although he's mine, I think he could, overall these old boys have done better. Yeah. Down the line.
And probably a longer career. Yeah. Next guy. Favorite of mine.
Probably one of the best three skaters or lead skaters. They set the tech man he's saving in the city of Williams. Still doing it as well, mate. You see that?
Ritz, mate. Yeah. How about all the time? Yeah.
J. Corn on. Yeah. I just think I see him the other day skating the same dress I think.
You know, some people can't get out there, mate. Still go pop. But I don't think we can pick him. No, I guess.
You know, he's got the big part. He's got all the big tricks, but we're just not quite there. No, because if you don't hit like the big hand rails, really, it's hard to get to this list. You need to, you know, PJ lad, a different kind of fish, right?
No. Yes. What the, I mean, he switched in the sorribium. That can switch, get put down, that probably must have been a 15.
Yeah. He was handling business. Definitely. He wasn't just, he wasn't just say, say, ledges.
He didn't hit many rails. No. He was. Yeah.
So, yeah, for that reason. He doesn't make it. Talking about gaps. Tomy guns, Tomy Sandoval.
Big boy gaps. Some of the biggest. Yeah, so it's a tough one. I mean, where are we at now?
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. We're just going to scan down this list. You know, I don't think he makes it because we're not going to get railed and railed on there. Although he's done big a shit, I don't think he's a better set here on the wall, you know, tech-wise.
I'm not really getting with that one, mate. Yeah, I'm going to agree. I guess it's kind of like the shackle thing. He's got one of the best fans I've ever done in the game, but is that enough to carry him round?
Do we see him doing these crazy nanny's and then tricks? Not something he can't do him, but no, when he's questioning him. No, no, and he's not hitting Switchflip. Yeah.
Definitely not. So, and that does set your part. I know he's going to be a big a n-rails, but he's, you know, he's not big. We all know those tech tricks are fucking...
Tech tricks are what they can do. Yeah, they're much harder. 10 times harder. 50-15 down a big rail is scary.
Yeah. No one wants to do it, right? It's a scary spot, but what you're asking, you're telling me you drive it, it's a Switchback, look what's in the back, look what's in the back, look what's in the back, look what's in the back. That's it.
These days, your average, average, you're going to go 50-50 or 12, sir. 50, sir. With a cross-lock, mate. With a cross-lock.
I'm not a fan of the cross-lock at all, I really... Doesn't look as good, mate. It's a nice one. It's a nice one.
You're going to cross it, be blip. Yeah. You need to do that. I'm sure there's a time and a place for them, but on a hand-around, not so much.
I think you're just declaring you don't want to balance it. You don't want to be on your heels, just in the lock of the wheel. You don't want to do it. You want to be on a safer level.
It's a different technique. Fair play. Fair play. I've never tried doing cross-lock, because I've just been weird committing to being weight on mine.
You're very uncomfortable. You're toe-side-etroning you're putting it on your hand-off. You're comfortable. You're here with something back.
However, you're countering balance. It's a weird thing, rather, I'm just standing tall and thinking, I've got it. I'm going to get powerful. Yeah, I don't think Tommy's getting it made.
Yeah, I know. I'm over here on that one, bud. Talking 50s. Jamie Thomas.
We've got to be up to chief. We didn't make the actual zero stars, although we will retract that and stick him on there. He definitely deserves it. I can't escape on her.
If it landed, maybe he made the cut, but for me, he isn't quite making it. He's not quite making it, but watching his part earlier in... New blood. New blood.
Just not standing out. No way knows much of the others. Great tricks, but... He was skating the dream mate.
Yeah. You know, he needed a skating tree. He reached it. Yeah.
It's called L'Eshar Day once on. Yeah, it will be a strange thing to be different. It's a bit different. So we'll move on from Jamie to another Jamie.
Yeah, a new Jamie. New Jamie for we. Now, people must have seen the king of road when it was on the vice land, and whatever it was, it was quite accessible. People saw that Jamie how good he was.