Why are you wrestling around for sheet metal every time I call you today um? Do that is such a complicated answer It's okay, but you guys can come while we talk yeah I can live with it just make it disgusting because I remember if you remember I don't know you know cream pie And you got all upset and I want to prove to you that I want so make it real disgusting. Oh, I won't make it disgusting So anyway, um basically I need sheet metal because of what I'm working on for my my studies at school, okay Did you get the videos I sent you earlier just to show you? I haven't opened them because I wanted to wait and just want to explain something to me.
Oh cool Check those out. Yeah, open it up. Alright. I'm opening that up right now Oh, I mean, it's it's something I've been fighting for months now.
I'm doing a dissertation Which is the like when you do the PhD thing you try to find something to make people smarter like humanity Yeah, the problem is in order to get to that level I have to learn a lot before I can even get there and so I did a video while back where David Linderman and I we shot two bullets at each other And they smashed nose on and you just did that dual style like Hamilton and Burr you just For like helmets and goggles and just made it happen. No. No. No.
We talked about that on the I was there at your place We talked about bull versus bullet, but basically electric primers and we timed it up So the bullets would hit nose on nose to nose and it worked Yeah, it worked and so in order to do something else I'm trying to do for the dissertation I wanted to learn how to simulate that engagement meaning is there a way I can use computers to recreate that event in Such a way that that perfectly models it and it seems like oh well We live in the computer age the information age of course we can do that Oh, no, it is way more difficult to do that than I ever imagined And I've been walking down this road for quite some time now trying to figure this out I can't want to look before I look I want to back a little bit No, it does not seem to me that because we live in the computer age that you would just be able to simulate what happens when two bullets smash together Like it doesn't seem like you could just walk up to a computer and be like okay computer simulate two bullets smashing together in every way Realistically because I mean every video game that involves action is built on some sort of physics engine some sort of physics system And you try to make them realistic But everybody's played a video game and seen much simpler things than a bullet smashing into a bullet at crazy speeds go completely wrong If people can't fall off a cliff or a car just can't be parked next to that curb as someone who's played a few video games I would say that I'm not surprised at all that this is not easy or automatic now I do imagine that there's some video game physics engine that could have two bullets operating within the parameters of their imagined world Smash together and something would happen, but you're not trying to do that You're trying to simulate exactly like our world with one g gravity and all of our parameters And that's why I'm not surprised at all to hear that this is very hard Yeah, I'm not using gravity in the simulation But I'm trying to do everything else and the most difficult thing to do is how the materials fail Like if you have a metal and you pull it It will break if you pull it hard enough in the amount of force you have to put on it is a function of the cross-sectional area of the thing You're pulling like let's say you have a rod like a round rod like rebar like a dowel Okay, sure like rebar all right That's great We said and I have it in and you just pull it to my hands and I'm much stronger than I actually am and you're telling me to pull On both ends of the rebar and pull it apart long ways. Yep. Yep. It's not working Also, imagine that was made out of play dough.
You could do it right if you did it what would happen before it broke It wouldn't just like snap it would do what no it would become elastic and gravity because it to droop in the middle and It would thread out into a bunch of components that for whatever reason were a little more tightly packed and that my force of pulling Wasn't affecting as rapidly as the parts that were functioning more as structural tendons in this play dough glob So the more structural stuff would probably come apart more quickly The stuff that wasn't doing much or carrying much weight is gonna string out and then it's all just gonna melt and fall down And I think it'll ultimately be the gravity that causes the last bit of it to pull apart Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right so that active stretching it out and it getting smaller like the diameter in the middle getting smaller It's called necking just like necking like old people used to do it drive-in movie theaters Exactly You know is it's like the diameter will just kind of go down kind like between your shoulders and your head your neck is smaller I've always thought that was interesting like there's certain parts of your body that are smaller than the thing more distal from it further away So like your wrists for example, that's why handcuffs work So I always wondered what it would be like to have like bodies that just taper away from the middle you couldn't hand cuffs Somebody like that could you? Like if somebody had spear hands that were perfect like a starfish Like a starfish or like the tea whichever Terminator that turned into metal and he had pointer hands. How do you cuff that guy? I know right.
I know always thought that's neat anyway, so this rod will neck down, okay, and then it will break and Every metal every material actually has what's called a stress strain curve like every solid material So stress is the amount of force that you're pulling on something divided by the cross-sectional area, okay, hold up So it's maybe make sure I get the amount of force so I got the rebar I'm pulling it apart even if it's not breaking I'm still applying stress even if it's very minimal stress relative to the strength of the item I'm applying stress and that stress is one more time to me again So if you're pulling at a hundred pounds of force, okay, and the cross-sectional area of this dowel is one square inch Then you the stress in that dowel would be 100 pounds per square inch. Oh, okay And so if you're pulling at 200 pounds and the cross-sectional area is half of an square inch What would the stress be okay? I'm pulling at 100 and it's one square inch pulling at 200 now is one now I'm pulling at 200 But it's half Yeah, okay, that would be more stress Yeah, so that takes it up to is a four. Yeah 400 pounds per square inch really smart dude I don't know you could you could easily do the engineering thing.
That's it. You now know how to calculate stress So it's the force divided by the area. So divided by the area Okay, so the fatter the thing I mean this is just common sense I can intuit this but you're giving me you give me the universal language the matrix the source code of the universe here vocabulary Yeah, fatter the thing the less stress. I'm applying when I put both my hands on it and try to yank it apart Yeah, exactly.
Okay, and so makes perfect sense that stress now strain is a little bit different strain is the stretch like how much does it stretch? That makes sense? Okay, sure in this case None there's got to be some kind of point some sort of tipping point inflection point that you have to reach as a minimum for any given Thickness and strength before any measurable strain is applied. So for example a really skinny piece of rebar even if it feels like I'm doing nothing But I pull apart as hard as I can there would be some microscopic level of observable strain being applied.
That's actually that's actually the word It's micro strain. Yeah, okay But there would also be a thick enough piece of metal that I could still get my hands on that I could pull and it would just simply be Unobservable using the technology we have to observe strain It just wouldn't move so I assume there is some point at which strain begins to manifest and then I would assume it is a logarithmic Curve that goes aggressively up from there once you reach that inflection point where it begins to actually inflict observable strain on an item Is that fair close enough? Yeah, it's it's not really logarithmic It's linear and like if you pull something and then you release it'll go back to normal, right? So that's that's not the case like I don't know I've got socks that lose their elasticity and it doesn't always go back to normal, right?
Yeah, but but like almost everything let's stick them that once we're in diameter rod if you pull it It'll stretch just a little bit and then you release and it'll just go back that's called the elastic region Okay, pull it hard enough and it starts to neck it starts necking. Ah, I heard that term Okay, that's where we get okay got it got it got it and once you are into the plastic realm unless it is a very unique substance Well, no once you're into the truly plastic realm. It doesn't matter what the substance is. It's not going to rebound It's not gonna go back to what it was right not all the way Yeah, it'll go back a little bit But it might not go all the way back So what has actually changed in the like let's say I have incredible strength and I'm pulling on this one-inch piece of rebar And I get it past the what did you say?
What's again the elastic tolerances? You're moving into the plastic regime now. I get into the plastic deformation What is changing inside of it that makes it so that it deforms and will not snap back to what it was? What did I do to it?
That's a great question and the answer is you're realigning the crystals. What's a great question? Do you sound like John Denver and yeah, I don't know what that means, but it's a 1979 new age joke, so there's a lot of crystals in there depending on I mean some things are amorphous But let's just talk about metals There's crystals in there and as you pull it those crystals will slide and realign and there's these magic things called dislocations And these dislocations will move and depending on the shape of the crystal There's all different types of shape crystals that is too too complicated to go into right now But like yeah, you're just sliding the crystals Okay, sliding on they they still want to hold each other but they they release just a little bit and things start moving around So in the case of rebar we're talking about FE What else is in rebar? It's an alloy.
I assume it's not just iron, right? Yeah, yeah steel is iron and you got some carbon in there and all kinds of stuff like depending on what kind of steel it is Okay, now you're getting into another thing Alloys behave differently. Here's the problem. I'm working on so brass for example is copper and zinc.
Okay, okay Okay, so let's say we have a brass monkey and we have inflicted Meaningful we've gone into the plastic realm. What is happening there that is different than just pure iron? I have no idea. I have no idea.
Okay, let me just make sure I'm still with you Because you're explaining fancy PhD level things and I I genuinely want to try to understand what you're working on something to quickly set Okay, everything's made of crystals at some level and I assume they're not the same in their structure depending on what element or elements are present But somehow that crystalline structure which exists at the submolecular level somehow that can be affected by stress and strain and Whatever part of that crystalline structure is Affected to the point of plasticity if you put a microscope on that that crystalline structure would not look the same as it did before It went past its elastic tolerance now. It looks weakened or broken at some Microscopic level am I tracking with you? Um, yeah, except it's not it's not some molecular level. It's bigger than the molecules Oh, okay Like these metals are atoms right and the atoms are arranged in certain orders depending on how big the atoms are and how they interact with other things And so you can have like there's these different crystal structures I mean there's some called body centered cubic.
There's some called HCP hexagon close-packed There's all these different crystal face centered cubic There's different crystal structures and they behave differently based on the shape of the atoms and how they interact with things And if there's other atoms crammed in between them and stuff like that So I would say it's not really molecules. I mean sometimes it's molecules we're dealing with but we're just talking about metal right now It's more atomic arrangement is what it is, but yeah, I mean you pretty much got it I mean that's it but what you're describing to me is this is just big picture here You are describing the ultra pinch zoomed in physical reality of every single metal that I come into contact with If you take it all the way down It's some kind of crystalline structure made up of a whole bunch of one atom or a mixture of a few different types of atoms different types of elements And when they get together part of the reason that metal has the properties that we just intuitively think of as metal is because of the way it Crystalizes up to give it its rigidity its properties its flexibility It's like they're of so if I'm hearing you're right This is the invisible world of metal that we don't see but we do into it. Yeah, okay So I'll man this is cool one of the things I like about when we talk about your stuff or my I mean like I Ask you about history stuff all the time you ask me these fundamental questions and it makes me realize man This is pretty cool And it is pretty intuitive once you start anyway So crystals have you ever got an ice cream out like that ice cream kind of just a get ice cream out of the fridge And you scoop you summon a bowl and then you leave it out on the counter for a few minutes because maybe like the family Want some to and then you go put it back in the freezer? You don't do that that doesn't work what what I don't see never the same I know some people try it But I can tell you could put a bandana over my eyes and give me two shakes of the soft serve butter finger malts shakes of the same Consistency the same temperature you can be like one bite of each tell me which one got a little melted and refrozen I could tell you because I can taste the crunch the texture is all wrong It still tastes like ice cream, but fundamentally it has changed and there is no making it what it was ever ever again Do you know why okay?
Here's my working theory and this maybe doesn't contribute to our conversation I'm just gonna try to honestly answer your question my understanding is that ice cream is Measured by the amount of air oxygen that is injected into the ice cream So you have light ice cream like McDonald's is mostly air You have heavier soft serve ice cream and I suspect that at some level the sugar and the other stuff that's in there is mingling with the oxygen to form a consistency that you like when it comes out of the machine But when that melts the oxygen leaves it Recrystallizes or it reforms in a new way But without the same amount of oxygen and so it takes on a fundamentally different texture because the composition of it actually has changed That's what I always thought to dang it. It's being right is so much cooler than being wrong So there was this graduate da when I was taking my materials class at Bama like 20 something years ago And he kept talking about fudge. I was like what is he talking about? And he said is your mom ever made fudge and I'm like Yeah, but I just kind of eat it and he goes how does the fudge taste?
I was like like chocolate? He's like no no no like mouth feel what's it like I said it's creamy. It's like right it's creamy and it's really smooth And he goes well what happens if you know he starts explaining the ice cream thing? He explained if you're had dip in dots you've had dip in dots, right?
Yeah, you know how they make dip in dots, right? No clue always wondered I always assume it's like super freeze dry ice but crazy cold kind of thing Yeah, they flash freeze it so here's the deal the faster you solidify something the smaller the crystals will be smaller crystals more fragile or smaller crystals more durable A smaller crystals are more creamy. Let's go. Let's go.
Yeah, we're still an ice cream Okay, so all right, so you eat ice cream and it's creamy You leave it on the counter and it melts and then you put it back in the fridge and it re freezes The crystals are big and it's not as creamy because you didn't freeze it as fast as they did at the manufacturing facility So if I could match the specifications of whatever did the freezing at the ice cream shop I could re freeze it to be the same Yeah, yeah, if you had some crazy fast flash freeze mechanism in your in your house Yeah, I think you're right creamy ice cream. No, I don't agree with you and I think you're wrong And here's why I think you're wrong because okay melting isn't just about crystalline structure It's also about an uneven redistribution of the elements that had been crystallized even if I flash froze that shake It is still begun the process of sifting itself out into its component parts as it melts And I don't think that just a flash freeze alone is going to undo that it's not going to add gravity or air back into the mix I really do think something has changed and it might keep the crystals off of it But I don't think it would reform and taste the same as it did even if you perfectly match to the rate of freeze from the store Tell me why I'm wrong. Okay. Well, I'm not gonna say why you're wrong You might be right, but I will give you a couple of more things to think about I'd like that So think about a I'm trying to figure out which one I'm gonna go with first think about a blacksmith You've seen TV shows of blacksmiths or maybe like a settlers day or something you got a blacksmith out there Been in nails and stuff.
You've seen that absolutely I've seen several times and I've watched very closely So he gets a hammer and he starts hammering on the metal and maybe flips it 90 degrees back and forth and the more he Ever seen a blacksmith heat up metal red hot just with a hammer just with a hammer No, only yeah, only with a hammer. I've seen him do it's a mate Well, maybe not red hot But I've seen him just hits some metal really really hard and bend it and then turn it 90 degrees and hit it again And if you do that hard enough and quick enough, you can just heat up the metal just with friction It's all that's all functional heat. Yeah. Yeah, they can do it.
They can do that. It's pretty neat So yeah, I saw the guy that made a video where he made a machine that had like 10 gloves on it They would just spin in place and he tried to cook a chicken by slapping it with gloves Yeah, I think like it just destroyed the chicken into tiny little gross bloody chicken parts They never maybe it got it. He said he was gonna make another video. I never saw the next video But yes, I mean I know friction can heat things that it just never occurred to me that you could go red hot with a hammer And a piece of scrap metal, but I mean, I believe you yeah, you can do it So What does a blacksmith do after he's got the metal?
It's really red hot and he's got it shaped perfectly And then he's ready to like he's ready to lock it in. What does he do? He flash cools it in a bucket of water. Yeah, sometimes not water.
Sometimes oil. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I suppose I have motor oil yeah, and then you get the sparkle and the spittle but you also get a different look to the blade I mean as part of white Damascus steel looks different than other kinds to write It's the actual treatment they put it in no Damascus steel is a result of folding the metal many many times And you fold like high carbon steel in with different alloys you fold them together. That's what makes that's a massive The waves through it.
Yeah, it's laminated. It's a bunch of different layers and the layers have different types of Strengths that's my understanding. You know, I might have been saying somebody who was demonstrating how to imitate that by flash cooling inferior unfolded metal Into like have you seen those sometimes people take car rims and they do this dip treatment? They pull it out and it puts an impact on their I can't remember what that's called.
Yeah, but I think the video I saw then was somebody showing how to fake the Damascus steel look with that kind of trick So I think that's making sense. I think I'm hearing you. Yeah, that's cool. No, this is different So the reason you would quench it is the word the reason you would quench the metal in oil rather than water is Because as soon as the water hits the boiling point it will turn to steam and so then if you think about inside the There there's like a layer of steam around the blade and only take away so much heat But if you do it in oil the boiling point is much higher and you can dump more of the blade.
Yeah, yeah So if yeah, what liquid has a lower boiling point then water is alcohol lower than water helium. I don't know. Yeah, okay Yeah, I'm sure so could go the other way to if you had something that a lower boiling point You would get a larger vapor barrier and it would be even less effective than water But with oil you're saying it reduces that that burn off vapor barrier down to next to nothing and it keeps that flash I never thought of that never thought of that. I wonder what the best quenching fluid is there's gotta be something like like mercury or something Like something like butter a day to a little bit of a lot of electrons I don't know But the reason you quench things like the blacksmith will quench things is he's trying to he's trying to get those really small crystals And so I'm not smart enough to know crystal size and what's what's good and what's bad But I do know that you can quench things to make really small metal crystals and Sometimes you think you'll hear it called heat treating right so heat treat some metal another thing you can do is annealing Have you heard of annealing?
Yeah, but I don't know what that means annealing means you put it in an oven and you bake it over a really long Period of time and then you cool it off over a long period of time. That's a what is that commonly done to you have annealed? Glass okay, that's right. Yeah, like windshield glass is it annealed?
No, it's a lot. I mean yeah It is but that's not the only thing that's done to it But metal can be annealed as well and the reason you do that is you want to remove all the stress the internal stresses from the structure So if you take something and you fold it really hard like in a press or something And you create a break like a kink right in the middle of the thing then there's gonna be internal stresses in there And you can kind of imagine what those stresses look like right? Yeah, then those crystals are like some of them are stretched and some of them are pressed that you go annealed it in that relieves that stress in the Metal that's what you're doing there and every time Civilizations have figured out a new way to treat metal I guess it opens a whole new part of the civilization advancement tree because now there's stuff you can do that you couldn't like we can Make a metal stick that goes 13 feet high but any higher than that with our current way that we treat metal and it falls over in a big Windstorm or it breaks when you do this or we can't put that much weight on it But now Civilization X discovers annealing and now we can make metal poles that can give in the wind but they don't reach They don't exceed their elasticity parameters and they can be 50 feet high and now you can have a 50 foot high pole And that enables you to do some new thing that you couldn't otherwise do you fast forward all the way to now and somebody's parking a skyscraper Size rocket in a coupling and using it again. It seems inconsequential like for me and the things I use metal for I don't know Metal just feels like metal.
It's all hard. Yeah, it's stiff enough It would get hurt if you got stabbed or you don't get hurt if you got stabbed by it But that's kind of it But the level of precision that you're talking about is so far beyond that in terms of these tolerances of different kinds of treated metal Changes everything about the applications you can use that metal for dude You just sent me I got my laptop here and I just went down this huge rabbit hole as you were talking about These advancements because you made me realize wow Yeah, this is like first of all how you melt the metal or whatever and then how do you figure out all these different things and people Mixed alloys together and then I was I'm sorry I did the thing where I was thinking as you were talking and I feel bad about that Yeah, you get the gist of it in the first two seconds my comments over the third chair. I'm not offended It's all right. Here's the question I was thinking about because you brought it up So the highest melting point I've heard metal wise is tungsten so my question is what do you hold tungsten in when you melt it?
And I had to leave oxygen I mean you just got to be pumping unbelievable amounts of oxygen into whatever fuel you're using to superheat that well They said there's some kind of special refractory metals that they use to make bowls to melt tungsten so I wonder if the Fairer the deep water I wonder if liquid tungsten is what gurgled in Mount Doom. I Wonder if liquid tungsten is the best thing to quench your sword in I think that's sort of rad Well the sort of probably be too brittle. It'd probably be too hard You don't want anything to be too hard because it would break you want it to be like flexible But be able to hold an edge so like you want it hard on the outside to be able to cut what you want to flexible on the inside Man, but if you're talking about swords that changes so much about your technique Like because then you have to account for that flexibility. I mean those inches of flex are life and death You see for example somebody that uses like a super flexible six or eight foot pike It exists both in the west and in the east.
It's long metallic. I mean sometimes it's made wood with a metallic tip But the amount of flexibility on those things I mean you're talking six feet of flex with this thing and it's on purpose You don't just get that weapon for free in your civilization because you discovered metal You've got to figure out how to make it to that point and say six feet of flex. Yes, it's insane I don't know what you call the weapon. There's usually like fur on the tip of this kind of a lance and you'll see people wield it like over their Shoulders like over both shoulders.
It's just crazy. You look at it It just looks like a silly, you know demonstration like nunchucks who's actually gonna fight somebody nunchucks It clearly is just silly and for show and it looks like that's what this weapon would be at first glance when you see somebody do a demonstration But then you think about it and you're going that would be very difficult to anticipate and defend in real time It's almost like a propeller whipping back and forth that the stinging edge of that weapon would be so difficult to defend that arc would be so hard To get inside of but again, you don't get it for free You've got to figure out what metal can have that kind of flex or what metal and wood combination can do that And then on top of that you go to apply the kind of the same principles to how you treat the wood if you go with a wood shaft You don't just cut it out of a tree and it works I assume you have to treat that or cut it a certain age as well. You're absolutely right this technological Dude, I'm kind of a loss for words because my brain's going in so many different directions based on what you just said Do you have the video I sent you? Open the video and just look at it.
Okay. I have two one is blue and one is gold and silver Just look at the golden silver one first. All right gold and silver. Okay Huh?
Well, isn't that quite the thing? Okay, I have oh wait. There's more. Okay.
I can I describe what I'm seeing or am I gonna ruin it? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. What I'm seeing are two bullets They're not real pointy I mean they look like nine millimeter to me I don't know something predictable and yeah as I watch the video the gold is on the right and the so close to the same thing The gold is on the right silver is on the left now They are being mushed together and they're doing exactly what I would expect two bullets to do when wishing together even if I had not ever Seen your video which is I expect that force to go out I expect something that looks like a supernova to happen just the force can't keep going forward because it's two objects moving in Perfectly vector opposite directions with the same mass at the exact same speed in this simulation And so where is all that mass supposed to go now neither can go forward?
So the release point for the pressure is going to be out So it looks like looks like a space explosion It's just the bullets are they're like liquefied and they're moving out in an even pattern. That's what I'm saying Okay, what are you saying inside the bullets before smushing? I mean what does it look like? I'm gonna big it five this a little bit.
All right. You've got this grid in there. Oh my I See shock waves rolling through the bullet and Disrupting what maybe is the crystalline structure? It looks like each bullet okay.
I'm inching through this here comes the shock wave They're impacting they're mushing up Mushing mushing there's the shock wave, but the shock wave isn't starting from the impact point It's starting from the back end. So those aren't actually shock waves. What those are are a morrier pattern But basically you're seeing a bunch of elements inside the bullet right? It looks like the bullets divided up into a bunch of little cubes It's a cross section.
It looks like a bunch of little cubes. Yeah, sure great way to describe it sure All right, so basically this is what's called a finite element analysis So what you do is you take a thing and you divide it up in a bunch of little things This software that I'm running here is called LS Dina and I'm running it through what's called ANSIS They gave me a seat of it to work on the PhD stuff But basically with a finite element analysis what you do is you take a big thing and you divide it up into smaller things Because it's easier to do math on smaller things all right and you say okay Well, if I've got 300,000 cubes and they're stacked up here If I push on this one on this corner well, that's gonna push on these three cubes to the left of it That's gonna push on these and that's gonna push on these and so you kind of propagate the force all the way through the thing You do an analysis on each finite element each individual discrete object And then you assume those objects are a part of a bigger object And then you do all the math and then you step it forward in time like a few picoseconds or something like that and then you do all the math again and then you step it forward in time and they do the math They step it forward in time and because you know that stress is equal to force divided by area because of the pulling the rod thing We talked about earlier you can calculate the stress at any point stress is equal to force divided by area, okay? At any point in either bullet yes, you can calculate the stress at any point in these bullets I mean I'm sitting here watching it on repeat and I believe you I have no idea how the software works or How much you can pinch zoom so to speak in on any of these particular points, but I'm big picture I'm seeing that so yeah, this is my question look at the next one look at the blue the blue video All right, I won't forget my question. Oh, I'm sorry.
Okay, let me know you're fine. Um All right, it's two blue bullets same shape. They are impacting This is so hard to describe dude, right? Right it looks like two worlds curliding doesn't it so does and it looks like two black holes being formed I mean it looks like the back end of the bullets are creating this weird inversion like this tube that you would travel through in like a wormhole in a Sci-fi show or something.
I mean just I'm trying to if you made two golf ball sized nine miller You said there are 45 45 millimeter rounds. Well, not rounds just bullets We're not there's these are fired so there's no shell There's no gunpowder anything this is the bullet and you somehow connected them to your left hand and your right hand and then with as Precise a timing as you could muster you started clear out wider than shoulder width apart and you Clapped They are doing mostly intuitively what I would imagine is happening here Which is mushing out to the sides But what I can't simulate because my hand is continuing to drive the bullets What I can't simulate is what I'm seeing here on the back end of the impact of each bullet and that is this weird vortex this weird Void that is forming and running toward the point of impact until it is some point material from right at the point of impact Pokes its head out of the newly formed void. I'm doing a terrible job This is all radio Everybody's got to be so frustrated by what I'm saying because I'm this is really hard to describe It's basically the bullets slapped together and they spread out Radially and then on the back of each bullet a little nipple pops out, right? Yeah, eventually after there's a void There's a void for a while then a nipple.
Yeah, exactly and so what you're seeing here is a simulation That's only about a hundred and fifty microseconds worth of time You can see the time up in the top left how many microseconds is a second second a million microseconds is a second and so 150 millionths of a second is what you're looking at it took my computer four and a half days to run this simulation Because you're having to go through each individual little element and calculate it But the hard part is you had to know how all the metals like work together There's a reason this is so interesting to me based on what you said a minute ago about the history stuff Is you said once once one army would figure out their metal or just or their magi or whoever their magic man were once they figured out a new Way to smelt or and to treat it and get it into a final form once they figured that out They had magic right and they had a superior weapon that could go against another army, right? Think about what that was like in the field man your swords look the same because you're you know You're from rival neighboring cultures and you both You're descended from the same family tree so you're wielding weapons that look the same and you fought each other This is a rival people group you raid each other every spring right? But in the off season one year the medaller just they figure out the next advancement and now all the swords for team a get Reforged and then they line up to fight against the usual suspects team B And they run into the field team B having no idea what is about to hit them and they charge each other and they all rear back their swords And they clang together for the first time and team B all simultaneously has this moment of realization That doesn't feel like the last time we clanged swords That feels completely different also look at my sword now and then the terror sets in it's science-induced terror And they can't tell you what happened or how it felt different in their hand and their wrist and the shiver It sent through their body But they know that last time they clanged swords it felt like hidden in the sweet spot with a nice baseball bat And the next time it felt like when you get it right off the end and it sends the vibration all the way down And they know that somehow this ends up with I'm dead. There's a moment like that history I promise you that happened.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's amazing And so look back at the gold and silver animation there. All right. Yeah, so what you're looking at is what's called an explicit model It's an impact simulation and the outer colors the darker colors on the outside of the bullets.
That's copper That's a very specific copper. It is a 90% copper and 10% zinc The stuff on the inside of course is lead and I'm gonna be so impressed if you know this I didn't know this do you happen to know what metal they put in lead to make it just a little bit harder any idea? Don't spend a lot of time thinking about this cobalt and Timoni like what have you ever heard what you pay when you get divorced? No, it's just a little bit of vitriol mixed in with this bullet and Timoni I don't even know Do you know that was a thing right and some it's on the periodic table SB really what numbers?
Yeah, it's you're making up elements at some point Humans decided you know if we take our 100% lead bullets and we add about 3% and Timoni to this We're gonna get way better bullets. So about 3% and Timoni atomic number 51 into your lead Yes, you hit harder, huh? It's SE what did you say this SB Sierra Bravo? Yeah?
It's me is and Timoni it does sound made up to me. It sounds like hokam I'm not sure that's a real thing is self-decutium I don't know but okay if you say so yeah, she's on the periodic table the thing that was so hard about this about what you're seeing First of all just getting it set up and running doing a model like this is incredibly difficult And I'm I'm at the limit of what I can do like mentally The first thing is learning the vocabulary to even ask the questions and then you have to go find the people to ask the questions From and then you go look at the research and this is what I've discovered the actual metals that made this particular bullet This is a Hornady bullet. It's it's a company in Nebraska I think it's right under breast make is it really it sure is yeah Margaret Hornady was the mayor of Grand Island for a long time Are you being serious right now? It's serious.
I know I probably know some of the people who made this bullet. I know people serious. Yeah, I'm not kidding at all Margaret Hornady was the you were about to do that. I don't know if you mean this I can't tell if you're being sarcastic knows I got him Margaret Hornady was the mayor of Grand Island rescue.
Yeah of the Hornady family Mm-hmm daughter Margaret Hornady what it's just on the website. Oh Man women color me impressed. That's amazing. Okay, great.
That's incredible All right, so yeah, I've had conversations with the people at the manufacturing plant and like it's all out there I'm not telling any of their secrets like this information's out there The hardest part of doing this model after you figure out how to set it up and after you thank you Ansys for giving me a license for LS 9 and by the way and after you get people to help you learn how to use the software Thank you Luis who helped me, you know, he's up in think Massachusetts Thank you Luis for helping me learn how to use the software You have to figure out the material properties and this is what I've learned doing this research for the dissertation That's so fascinating dude. I don't know what to do with this But I realized I'm at the edge I'm like way out there on the edge of learning like in this very very very narrow field and the thing that's most difficult is to learn the Material properties of the metals that I'm modeling Basically in order to do this simulation you have to learn how the metal breaks So go all the way back to the beginning of our conversation you take the rod and you pull it Yeah, you have the elastic regime and you have the plastic regime, okay? Well, that's what I knew engineering failure to be I was wrong There's an entire other level like it's an order of magnitude more complicated like every engineering student that I've ever talked to Oh, yeah, yeah stress strain curves. Yeah, you calculate Young's modulus and you can yeah What's the Poisson material?
Poisson ratio of that metal like we we know the language and we know all the stuff and then you realize wait a second What strain rate are we talking about? Because if I do quasi static and I'm just really slowly pulling that thing, you know, you're pulling the dowel part really slowly It's going to neck at a certain rate, but if you do it stupid fast Then you have to worry about things like depending on how fast the speed of sound in the material huh the speed of push The speed of pull because those atoms have to react to each other and so you have this whole Other thing called Hugonio shock theory and you have to do all this stuff And I didn't know any of it But there's this really fancy pants thing called the Johnson cook failure criteria where these two guys a long time ago work for the Air Force I think they figured out hey we can parameterize Everything that a material can do down to these like five numbers every material has these numbers And you can just figure it out and you figured out by doing this test that costs fifty thousand dollars We're gonna pull it slow We're gonna pull it fast and we're gonna pull it different temperatures and we're gonna do all this stuff and put it into this Matrix and then out pops these numbers those numbers. I know I'm talking a lot forgive me. No, no You're good chewing on it the Johnson cook criteria numbers It's hard to find and scientists want those numbers for every material that exists Because if I get those numbers, okay Matt back to your team a team B thing right?
Mm-hmm So instead of the battle taking place a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago the battles gonna take place now and you and I Or team a and T B. We're not actually trying to kill each other We're just trying to knock each other's weapons down or whatever right so if I can get the material properties for these bullets Then I can model it and simulate what it would do against your bullets. Does that make sense? Yeah, but you don't shoot bullets at each other very often.
It's not the best defensive strategy. Yeah, you're right, but you Let me just say this way this stuff is important because it's important to know how things react under extremely high pressures like Explosions and stuff like that. So this factors into how shape charges perform this factors into how blah blah blah And so I might be able to figure out a certain metal is better for a warhead than you if I can do the modeling simulation I know I've dumped a lot on you now, but here's okay No, okay, go ahead. So looking through the research and trying to find the material values for these properties This is what I've learned.
So for example, I know I need the alloy I think it's called CU 2100. It's maybe wrong about this, but long story short 95 copper 5% zinc That's what I need can't find it anywhere in the literature can't find it It's called gilding metal, but what I can find is 90% copper 10% zinc So that's what I'm using in this model here And that's not what I actually shot and what went together But I don't have the money to go get those numbers when I started looking into literature. I'm seeing scientists in Russia I'm seeing scientists in China scientists in Poland Scientists in France all over the world doing bullet versus armor simulations It's important to know I know I'm shooting a bullet versus a bullet But replace one of the bullets with armor and then you get all the way back to that meeting on the battlefield thing that you just you just so eloquently Talked about yeah, and that to me seems like the really obvious application here. Huh isn't that interesting?
Isn't it okay? Here's where it takes my brain you're getting close to with enough processing power being in the into the realm of Random or even further into the realm of only god knows So let's say for example Meteor is an asteroid is it's flying through space and we figure out it's gonna hit the moon Like alright, we got to save humanity. We can't get anybody off planet. There's no time We got to figure out exactly where every single bit of the moon is gonna hit the planet and see if I'm very short notice We can get some people where no moon or asteroid bits are gonna wreck things well, it's unknowable But it's not that it's unknowable It's that it's too hard to calculate because it's too hard to figure out the composition of the projectile hurtling through space And it's too hard to figure out the composition of the moon at every single turn But theoretically if you could know every single bit of what that asteroid is made of and everything about how it's traveling What speed what it's gonna run into between now and the moon and you could know every detail about the composition of the moon and you had Near infinite processing power you could figure out what that thing that I just described Which is my attempt to come up with the most chaotic explosion I can possibly imagine the most impossible to calculate thing ever Well, if there's a god who knows all things and has infinite processing power That would be enough to know where every single rock pebble and bit of energy is gonna dissipate and discharge to upon impact But if you could know all the pieces and you had near infinite processing power on your machine You could figure out where all the particles and all the debris and everything even in an explosion that chaotic could happen It's not that it's unknowable.
It's just too much to gather all the information for such a scenario So we just have to hand it off to random it'll blow up things will happen It's chaos, but what you're looking at these simulations run it again and again in front of me here that you've sent me that looks like chaos But it's not actually chaos you can kind of tell what's gonna happen And if you could generate the same impact at the same speed with the same thing again and again and again That thing that looks to the naked eye to be completely chaotic is actually ordered. Yeah, and that messes with me Well, I don't know. I mean you mentioned God in there. I'm coming around to the idea Well, I mean I'm not coming around to the idea I'm just starting to grasp the idea that God doesn't exist in time at all There's a chapter in mere Christianity called time and beyond time And he talks about God being there in the future with you already Understanding where it's going and so I'm just now starting to understand that so I don't think about God as processing things I think of him already being at the answer when I'm running the simulation I set it all up and I hit go and it took four and a half days for it to get this little 22nd clip You just watched yeah, but if you already have it rendered you can just open it up and it's rendered I kind of think of God is already having the rendered files Yeah, but doesn't need to hit play either and recognition exactly if there's a God That's what God is God is the first cause and is better defined by what he isn't then what he is He is not limited.
He is not bound by time He is Knows all things he learns nothing that is he doesn't have to render So any decision if there is indeed a God that would affect the chaotic hole because any any action God would take or anything that happens in the world I mean the world is kind of that bullet the world is kind of that exploding moon scenario Everything affects everything else down to these tiny micro particles that can't be known and then civilizations have called that fate or luck or happenstance or providence or God or whatever But if God is truly infinite there was no moment of choosing It was always chosen and God did not learn or pick in a linear time moment as you and I think of it What would happen with that rock hit that rock or when that bullet randomly smashed into that other bullet on a battlefield Is not just that he didn't learn it before it happened It's that he never learned it He necessarily as the unlimited being always knew that and didn't ever have to queue up the knowledge to know it again God is just very very other if indeed there is a God and indeed God is the unlimited maker and sustainer of all things If God is indeed essence and existence It's just it's not an exaggerated that that being is not like a superhero like me or you But still bound by things and can get distracted and has a finicky personality That being is very very very other if such a being exists and I happen to think such a being does exist Yeah, I think God exists outside of time like above time so to speak not only is he the first cause I think he's the uncaused cause which is interesting agreed So anyway, I just got to thinking about all this stuff and I thought you would find it interesting I'm running into problems of like I've heard people when they're doing the research I've heard them say like oh, yeah, you have trash data and like you have to try to make it work And I've heard a bunch of people complain about different things some of the stuff I'm running into is I don't I don't have a lot of people I can talk to about this stuff anymore. There's only a limited number of people that I know of that I can say hey What do I do here? There's a guy in Malaysia. His name is amine Topa am en t-o-p-a and he's done some crazy awesome simulations online.
I found him and he's helping me look at this stuff I got him Luis I was telling you about he's helping me But like it's a whole different vocabulary man But one of the things I found interesting is these material values when you go looking in the literature and try to find it I've got to the point where I can pull up a paper and I can say okay What are Johnson Cook properties for this bullet jacket or whatever and I start looking at it Oh, this guy is using the Polish guys numbers, huh? And I'm to the point now where I can say yes Say now he's using the polis guys numbers, but he made a typo I'm like, yes, I'd use the guys numbers, but he's got the wrong number and I go back and look at the other paper and be like oh, yeah Yep, he screwed it up and so yep now I read some book about first century Roman politics and they say something about ponches pilot And I'm like oh, yeah, you're going off the tradition of that debunked 11th century French manuscript that just got translated into English And before that nobody knew about it. I know that one Yes, see what you're doing Yeah, when you're around to discipline long enough you start to know who thinks what and where people grabbed their information You can kind of start to tell when people just made crap up wholesale like I absolutely let's just plug something in here But it takes a lot to get there on any subject and so yeah I usually have no way of knowing when people are doing that There's just a few things ready to happen to catch it sounds like you got there I'm getting there like I'm just now getting to this point where I can be like oh cool You're kind of like this is bull crap like your old papers like you made that big of a mistake on this paper I don't really believe any of it but the paper looks really fancy Dude a minute ago when you were like I don't have anybody to talk to about this I'm running out of people I thought you kind of meant emotionally I wanted to sort of reach out my hand I legitimately misunderstood. I was like hey, dude I'm always a phone call away, man.
I'm like oh you wanted to talk about like the 10th Ten cell strength of like a copper boat. Oh dude. I got no freaking idea. Call somebody else Sorry, I can't help you anyway.
I offer no emotional support. I need to go right now No, no like like if any of you know what mass scaling I should assume with my explicit model without trashing the data I'd love to know like if you if you have damage coefficients d1 through d5 for Su 95 zn 5 I would love that if you have that just yeah, I don't know if just send it to us somehow that kind of stuff There's just nobody to call I don't have any of that but I've got a heart that cares and an ear that's willing to listen and shoulders Thank you. You're pretty good at sharing a burden So if any of that would help with your little bullet picks bullet experiment, you know, let me know I appreciate that No, this is the bullet thing is not what I'm actually doing I'm just trying to write a paper on this and the purpose of the bullets was to understand how to do the model And then I'm rolling that forward into something else that I'm actually doing but I figured this would be a really good way to start to understand stuff And it made me realize that there's a lot of stuff going on If you look at the papers out in the world, you can see who's working on new bullets And you can see who's working on new armor There's like a shadow war that's been going on since the dawn of time. How can we make our slings work better?
How can we make our arrows shoot farther that kind of stuff? You can see it. It's all there. Mm-hmm.
Isn't that interesting? Oh, is it ever I don't know that you're necessarily contributing to that But you were definitely piggybacking off of a lot of work right now of people who wanted to figure out how to make their bullets point here point here I don't know your fancy science terms egghead What is that in the background? That is a saw-as-all? Maybe a sander that might be an army of orbital sanders attacking a nasty wall Or do you know have you ever seen like where they take drywall mud and they're like, oh, I don't really know how to drywall or texture But if I just throw a crap ton of this mud on this wall and then make like a wiggly travel shape with it Maybe that'll pass for art.
Have you ever seen those kind of that kind of texture? Okay, that's what happened to my house years ago And we finally decided it's time to stop that so I have men downstairs attacking all of that And they made like a bubble boy environment down there with like taped off plastic walls with zippers You can walk that looks all has maddy like ET when they took over the house in ET And so I guess you're just gonna hear orbital sanders the whole course of them now Maybe they'll stop soon. I don't know I'm sorry for everything I wanted to address something and I just wanted your opinion on it and so we'll just deal with the noise there Thank you, but um, I got a lot of feedback on the fancy episode like a lot you did I didn't check the comments or anything to see if anybody had any opinions Shut up you actually went and defended me somewhere I did so a lot of people attack his character Come on. Yeah, make fun of him, but he's a pretty nice guy.
He's just wrong about a song wrong You're wrong dude. You're dead wrong about the song you're wrong about the song It's a sweet like you're just wrong about the song the last time you'd heard it clearly or thought about it was when you were a kid And you formed a kid opinions about the song but then we clearly we fully vetted the song together And it's abundantly clear that the phrase mama turned me out does indeed mean what we fear it means It gets the song about her being put out on the street to go and become a lady of the night at a very young age What the song is about man? It's okay. We fully explored the possibility it was something different It's not it's okay Okay, so I I admit I admit that it's possible.
It's possible if that's the case. Yeah, I will say A tremendous amount of people told me I was wrong and not only did they tell me I was wrong They ridiculed me incessantly like oh little pat on the head. You're such a moron. You're an idiot.
Also. It's kind of cute Fancy's a prostitute also. I got a church with you People people with my church were like That's adorable. It's adorable that you thought fancy was just like I still think she's kind of a Cinderella story You don't reel it off the apostles creed and then they kind of leave She was definitely a hooker man Yeah, yeah I will say this dude like when when the attacks started coming like really hot and personal and they did via email text All kinds of stuff it took every fiber of my being when they would say like fancy's a hooker when they would say something like that Every fiber of my being not to just reply and say your mom's a hooker Yes But I didn't do that.
No, I just wasn't just having done that that would be wrong that kind of banter That would be wrong something that no that it's worth saying a thing to point out What isn't gonna be said around here? That's good. Right. No one should take that to heart But great not at all not at all.
I'm not gonna lie. That is that okay people started greeting me in public Somebody was chat really who I didn't even know about some other stuff. I do on the internet and they're like hey before you go What was that's been doing with the fancy thing? Oh, yeah, I don't know I can pass along any comments you might have no I just I see I so smart.
I don't how do you miss so very disappointed in him? So disappointed personal disappointment expressed toward you at me in casual conversation with friends like swarays and church and stuff It was amazing how much your opinion on that? 1992 Reba Mac entire song really got through the armor for folks that is The most negative feedback ever including the welcome to the gun show thing that made Kellogg's or whoever had the brand We worked with Matt at us. I mean that was off the charts There's a guy that I hadn't spoken to in let me say when's the last time we texted?
Uh the last time we texted was a very very very long time ago And he just reached out and was like blah blah blah. I mentioned blah blah blah He said something and then he said I listened and smiled at your innocent interpretation of fancy like hey Just add blue just gonna let you know you're more on Okay, I love it around I think about my world and think about how many comments I received over the course of two or three weeks of people being like Now the great thing about Matt on the other hand, he knows a whore when he sees one now that guy He knows No, man one of my favorite things about this podcast is being able to be wrong and I am and I'm okay with that And uh, I think fancy is uh, I'm just going down here. I think fancy is just like Cinderella and uh Bless your heart man bless your heart bless my heart. All right.
I will offer this one more thing though Okay, every single person who weighed in person or in writing over the fancy episode to me They all had one thing in common. They all listened to the entire episode all the way to the bitter end Now I ask would the same number of people have done that if you had taken a different position and I would argue no That would have been a super boring episode and if right from the beginning you'd been like oh, yeah I know this song clearly this is what this has happened there Then we would have gone and done the other episode that I had planned I was kind of interested to see if you might bite, but that wasn't even the plan for the episode You know that right? We still haven't done the episode that we were gonna do there We still haven't even had that conversation because fancy just took over But the fact oh yeah, there was controversy. Oh my goodness.
It was just then it was on and then all the fun could happen I just texted you my favorite comment. I received um people really like it when I'm wrong I'll say that but uh look at that last comment there That the one's got from a friend of the podcast Friend of the podcast is um can't say that I don't like that Um, well people know this friend of the podcast when you say friend of the podcast that is someone that's someone who we've We've spoken with and they sure had an opinion about your fancy takes I'll admit that's the only one that hurt. All right. Cool.
That one's go