But if you can see the spirit realm kind of conversation is that, yeah, you have what I call the realm of circles, which the realm of circles is our world and built on the toruses, right? The material world that is built out of yang forces that create a sphere. So in Japanese, a sphere is called Tamah, or Tamah means ball. So this world that we live in is made of balls.
I think for the world's accretions, say this. The world's made of spheres, made of balls, made of torus. And I think the world made of balls is fundamentally different from the world made of squares, because the metaverse is made of squares. So I don't know if people are catching up, but we're living in a war of worlds between the world of balls and the world of cubes.
Our nervous system is getting used to being able to process data that's made out of squares. converted into the realm of balls, but still, a lot closer to the realm of squares. And we're literally getting our circumstances used to that. And that is actually a lot of the conflict.
It's literally a battle between shapes. Greetings, future puzzles. And welcome back to episode 198, where the podcast that explores our place and time. For part two of our discussion with Tadaki Zumi about Japanese esoterica and how Shinto informs their understanding of the evolving digital verses and our place in them and the relationship between digital realms and the analog realms.
But before we go there, I need to give an exuberant thanks to everyone who has been supporting the show, on Patreon, or on sub-stack, and including the newest supporters, Agent M83, my old friend, Anna Dhanha, Silverback Shaman, Michael Morgenstern, Yes, 154. Listen to that episode, it's great. Ariel Ali, amazing visionary artist, Cody Kuiak, Harry Duncan, a lot of the people who have been buying my music on Bandcamp. Rahakan, thank you.
Last night, I led a band of 10 people through an extraordinary three hours of improvised music. I cannot tell you how amazed I am at the quality of talent and all the amazing people I find myself surrounded by, not just musicians, but also visual artists and the dancers that were involved in this event last night. And we are doing more of these now, a monthly basis here in Santa Fe. I'm going to be trying to record as much of it as I can, share as much of it as I can.
So if you're into art, ritual, magic, music as kind of church, really, then drop on in, michaelgarfield.substack.com or patreon.com slash Michael Garfield, whichever. They're loosely equivalent. And with that, thank you very much. I'm not going to waste any more time.
This is an extraordinary discussion. I want you to enjoy it. Tada Hazumi. The internet needs to be a shamanic internet.
I don't think that's new or revolutionary to say. There's a certain yin-yang magic, a certain kind of ancient magic that works really well for the situation. It's like design is work. If we actually really get into it, that's kind of like how it is.
And I think one thing of AI art, that was an interesting conversation that's been like spreading around you. But I think for example, a lot of people are into thoughts, we'll see around. What can AI art do or not do? Everybody says, oh, we don't want to hear art to do this.
It's amazing how does that. It's actually not really the conversation. Personally, I think we should be having too much of it. That's like the spectacle, right?
But the actual aspect of art that is both wonderful and horrible and beautiful and big is its ability to move synchronous fields. So it's ability of art to move fields, it calls for fields of information. That's the thing. So our question is really, is how much can AI art move a causal information fields?
How much can they direct synchronousity? And how much does that already have? Because I think that's actually the question. We're getting lost in what we can do.
Yeah, I can spit you out this for your specter yourself or something. But that's not actually what it's about. That's not the purpose of art. Jamie Curcio wrote this piece about this.
It was that you will see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension, making it kind of a similar point to some of the stuff I've been urging people to consider, which is that there is something, whether you want to talk about it in order to understand the technology, you have to understand that it relies on the production of Gaussian noise. There is an inherently random or there's a component that is completely out of your control, no matter how carefully constructed your prompting of these tools is. What is that piece? Because for the same reason that it works as an irregular instrument, waves on a pond or whatever, it's like a chaos theory thing, right?
Like on some level, it's deterministic. Whether you mean it's deterministic in the sense that you're talking about causality with a linear time flow or whether you mean it in this other sense that it involves a different causal flow is moving in different directions, you step out and you can see these loops or higher dimensional manifolds of causality. The case remains that in a chaos theoretical sense, these are still deterministic systems, but epistemically we can't get there. We cannot accurately model them with the level of completeness required in order to understand them like the founders of modern pre-20th century physics believed that if only you were able to do that, you would have to do that.
Only you could see everything, then you'd be able to predict everything. If only you could know the state and then the whole mindfuck of quantum physics was fundamental uncertainty, was that if you measure one thing, then you can't measure the other thing. And so you can't ever actually get that complete thing. So we know, and perhaps there are other beings in the cosmos, the way that Stuart Davis talks about his mantis experiences.
They see time from above the playing field rather than on it. But they see time as like this spiral taffy thing and they're experiencing past, present and future in our frame of reference all at once. But at any rate, so that the AI art piece of it, it's interesting that basically this tool depends on the deliberate technologization of something like TV static, which you read like Eric Davis's book, High Weirdness, and he talks about how Phil Dick and his wife Jennifer don't talk about hypnagogia and liminal dreaming and getting into the space where you're using the TV static of your own pathously brain for prophetic or visionary purposes. And so this is a thing where I agree with you that there's no way to rigorously talk about the stuff without also talking about the way that this is why Christianity in particular considered dice to be a tool of the devil.
But like you're playing with randomness here and randomness is a portal into, it's not actually random, it's just something that you fundamentally can't understand. And so you're playing with fire. But basically like you are inviting in things over which you have no control and cannot understand. The church doesn't like you using anything where you can have chance to communicate through your synchronous node, introduce the information field that's not the church's design.
This is something I thought about is that of course if you roll a dice eventually, one size you can come up one six somehow that means that one six actually has me in the parallel universe of information. So that's actually a part of the magic tradition. So the cookiest thing that I've or one of the cookiest things I've seen recently was somebody posted to Facebook a Christian Ouija board where you can use the Ouija board to communicate to Christ. And I was like boy does that seem kind of that seems contradictory to like historically ignorant or something.
You realize that the Ouija like they were trying to make this thing that fundamentalists since the invention of the Ouija board have considered a demonic instrument into an angelic or Christ instrument. And it's just it's good luck with that. Here's the whole point is my friends who use those kinds of like scrying tables. They're like you don't necessarily invite stuff in but you don't necessarily determine at the outset which spirits you're going to be talking to.
A lot of the internet itself. So it's like the Christ Ouija board is just like such a misguided effort on some level. Because especially because he's like that's exactly the thing is you're going to think you're talking to Jesus. Are you?
Yeah, I'm sorry. We're on the path here. I want to wrap this into because we talked about that the Ouija board and how we a lot of people use the internet. And this is like one of the things I want folks of hope folks I don't think about.
I don't have to feel through. So I used to collect records. I don't know if you did Michael. My wife and I have a modest final collection.
So you've collected mine. So this is the difference between algorithm landscapes. I think this one way I'm really I think the scrying thing is similar to this oracular. Like when you go to YouTube and you're like what do I want to listen today and then there's a record on links.
People treat that as oracular, right? So algorithm. Oracularism used or let's say you go to the local record store. That actually also has algorithm how it's showing information that you might not actually be paying attention.
So the way the records appear and how they ended up there and how they've come in piercing out at you which album covers or the taste of the record shop owner or they have used records so that people from the paper drop stuff off. Those are all algorithmic. That's all our algorithm data. And I think one of the things I just want folks to consider is that like we may use the internet algorithmically but the algorithms of land are still have a different characteristic.
The amount of freedom and chance it introduces and local information local records store has local information literally inside of it versus if you was spotted by does not have local information. And that's what I mean like the spirits of algorithmic, universal world and the realms of earth are actually in conflict is exactly what we're talking about. And what we're experiencing right now and I don't this is not good nor bad in the end but we're talking about vinyl. So vinyl is like in terms of audio fidelity like the top medium top common medium but you can get real to real to engage debut.
And nobody has that right. I didn't like Carrie Chandler. So they're B.T.J.s. You know what real to real take you have probably have vinyls like most high fidelity set up or a huge that largest range of sound.
And then the next step over it would be CD. Let's take out cassette tapes. That's where it didn't quite know what to go. Let's go from like vinyl to CD right.
And then after the C generation you have you had mp3 and now you have streaming. So what's happened though is that streaming is considered the most advanced technology. It actually has the most advanced technology actually has the worst signal. I'm not talking about this with my wife but please go on.
I'm not going to be like all you kids and I remember when everything was on record whatever but I'm saying that there's been a degradation of data that a nervous systems are getting towards again. And that's true in human intimacy. I love you Michael. We also never met you never smelled my hair.
I never smelled your armpits. That's true. Right. Yeah.
So we mean you here are dealing with a degradation of data in a relationship. Depending on who's huge deal that people are dealing with like degraded data and the relationships trying to rely on that degraded data to upkeep. So I think there's something really about the ability of the human senses to actually have experience. How and why is that being toned in the way we are and that also in the reverse gives me hope for the future because final hasn't gone away for a reason.
So I don't think real life human relationships are going to go. I mean it's not like an absolute that way. But I think it's just like worth for us to see that oh the cyborg reconciliation is happening while you're worried about typing about it online which is already a degraded communication platform. But just what is your nervous system getting used to?
How is it? And notice that whatever medium that you're communicating through is toning your system. And I do think if you can see the spirit realm kind of conversation is that yeah you have what I call the realm of circles which the realm of circles is our world and built in toruses right the material world that is built out of yang toruses that creates here. So in Japanese spirit is called Tama or Tama means all so this world that we live in is made up balls.
I think the world's accretion is the state of the state like an ancient text that they have or medieval text I guess the world's made of spirits made of balls made of torus and it's pretty elemental like as a new age content theory whatever the world is made of balls. And I think the world made of balls is fundamentally different from the world made of squares because the metaverse and is made of squares so I don't know if people are catching up or living in a world world world of worlds between the world of balls in the world of cubes. That's literally what's happening is literally what's happening because our system our nervous system is getting used to being a process data that's made out of squares converted into the realm of balls but still a lot closer to the realm squares and we're literally getting our systems used to that. And that is actually a lot of the conflict is literally a battle between shape that's just like my straight up that's how weird this shit is literally team circle versus team square.
On the line and that's like literally like when you break it down to the most simple thing that's happening is that weird. So I think this has been you've made yourself pretty clear on this point in this call so far but I just want to invite you to reflect or explain. It strikes me that you're not on team circle or team square. That you're saying like with a challenge that faces us is to synthesize circle to literally again this is like the alchemical to square the circle right this was a thing that was impossible using the tools of the geometer if you go to Michael Schneider's the beginners guy to construct in the universe which is like one of the coolest books I can possibly recommend.
It talks about the way that that various numerical systems and geometrical systems throughout history used the compass and the straight edge and so on to understand the building blocks of reality we can do it now with computers but like for thousands of years. We're like we don't know how to draw a square whose edges each touch the circumference of the circle that was and so that task was regarded as being one of these things that the alchemists saw as like while they were trying to convert lead into gold. They were also trying to arrive at this geometrical understanding that would allow for the reconciliation of these two different modes and which can also be thought of as like the reconciliation of the discrete mathematics and continuous mathematics where it's and how do we when we think about or object. In the way that we think about or objects and processes there's a way to chunk the world down like I was just talking about this with one of my family's friends at Christmas dinner last night there's like a physicists are frequently roasted for wanting to make descriptions of the world that are comically oversimplified in order to make the mathematics easier to handle.
And so the joke is that physicists want a spherical cow but of course they want a spherical cow because the system is the system that you're talking about here is actually even though it is a like calculus is a system where it's interesting Stephen Strogatz gave a really interesting talk on calculus that I'll try to remember the link in the show notes for us if I earlier this you're talking about. How calculus is the way that you use the finite to enter infinity because you're trying to take a curve and underneath that curve you are creating an infinitely many segments in order to understand the area under the curve mathematically right. Right. So yeah so there's this way of all of these different systems and at any rate mathematicians in the circles that I inhabit tend not to be at this point in the 21st century at least tend not to be unilaterally ideologically pushing toward one or other of those approaches they tend to be to rather be.
To be to recognize that there are certain kinds of questions for which you want to use to treat mathematics as a tool and others for which you want to use a continuous mathematics as a tool and that neither of these are really these are like methodological rather than ontological they're not there's not statements about reality it's not that ultimately the world is made out of. Bits or even the people except Lloyd who do say this you say you can use the universe to compute things and that like information theory requires breaking things down into bits but where the bits come from you go to Nora Bateson and these and like Greg Bateson her father and the bit is. Distinction that is being like the information is in based on the language difference that makes a difference because it is the way that our own brains are doing what mathematicians are doing in calculus which is chunking up the disk the continuous experience. Our own relatedness with the universe and then parceling it in order to make it easier for us to navigate so it's not with a bit in the individual michre and his book the infoboris that my friend rich oil published on mid anoint press there's a you cannot actually even though most people do you cannot actually talk about information theory without also talking about cognitive neuroscience.
Because information doesn't exist without being be held in some way so anyway I don't I just have to drop that in there but really what I want to talk with you about or hear you talk about is how you are working to synthesize the stuff to reconcile it because sometimes I feel like I'm on. I'm kind of ambivalent I think a lot of my friends are like I'm like I'm some days I feel like I'm on team circles some days I feel like I'm on team square my own a gregore that I've talked about on the show the one that joined me and my wife in a sort of esoteric union back in 2007. I'm here to me in the form of those the way that the sentinels and matrix revolutions the robotic squid but then when you go blind and he sees them with his third eye and sees their subtle bodies and they're like these divine beings that are. And so that's what I saw I was like it's like cybernetic tentacle thing that then later had this weird but like perfect rhyme with the each day of his own that are like these many arms things living under it center of the earth and so okay so okay so I'm going to just go with that and the fact that I had it was a class or have a digital lens now and all this stuff then basically I deserve all of the shit that I've been in the world.
I deserve all of the shit that I've caught from people on team circle for being a servant of the machine or the machine but on the other level you're serving up. But at the same time team square people like among scientists I'm a complete lunatic new age hippie weirdo like a loosen head. So it's like yeah to your point earlier that you made about like just being attacked from both sides anyway that's and ran. And so I think that's a really good space.
Even when I think what really comes to me so we're like a few hours almost a few hours and chatting is like so something feels like it's starting to steal to me is I've had a sense that like obviously the singularity is coming and it's tearing through our brains. So with a singularity I guess the most simple description you can't tell the difference between a man made whatever and alive thing you can't tell if it's on team circle or on teams where that's a singularity earth and metaverse you don't know which is either or it doesn't matter so distinction is something that's being challenged. And I think this isn't just about the singularity but I think there's something coming around the distinction between living and non living disappearing. This distinction between the individual collective disappearing and I think one of the big ones is the distinction between good and evil disappearing.
So I have I feel that to survive the era that's coming you can't really have these understandings of this good and evil that have been weight based and kind of a certain kind of polarized binary and the era of singularity is also challenged to that in and of itself. So there's something I think we all realize we're headed towards it is a kind of coalescing of things. All the fragments are being brought in and that's kind of what reminds me of Shub series like you know that integration but yeah there's something about the singularity not being distinguished to team circle or to square. Fundament requires you to challenge and take away that idea that there is like this young bit and evil and I do think there is like love that exists that's not either there is love that exists that is not either.
I don't know how to describe that but this is kind of like where we're talking about Japanese animism or the imprints of this one is like imprint of this old non duo way of being in the world. That's really what it is and a lot of involves ritual. Those certain kinds of ways of seeing I think that's really what's coming down the pipe. That's really what's the challenge and that we're faced with and I think the singularity is actually philosophically a deep part of that so it's all coming together.
I really do think so and of course I think that's why like we're faced with a kind of like sphere of it's amazing that we're all like we can boot up our souls and the internet live forever at the same time that we're like maybe the best. Right. There is something there. I wish you have to die to do that and like what you get and this is something I want to talk about with Nora the next time I have her on the show which should be soon because she has this whole like a fan of poises thing which is that all of the systems that we can observe and model are just like the tip of this iceberg of stuff that we can't ever really understand or model and yet that stuff is like a trans contextual stuff crucial it's essential and intrinsic and we can't get rid of it and we don't want to get rid of it but then there's that's lost on both economic models and on this notion that you can like scan a person into a computer and so your point about the mp3 is like this is the point I've been trying to make to Jason Silver for over a decade which is do you really want to be the mp3 version of yourself or do you want to be the vinyl version of yourself.
Right. You know it's a pain in the ass like mp3 it's like in the cloud and you can listen to it anywhere but at the same time as a parent this is the argument that I've been having with my wife recently and I'm sorry that I don't know so frustrating because like our kids love music and music comes down and we've this debate or like this war that we're experiencing between these two modes or as they appear as two different modes before we finally dissolve them into non duality is showing up in the battlefield of bedtime for my family right now because because they there's like a playlist of sleepy songs that my wife uses that she needs to help her get our kids to sleep but I remember being skeptical of that whole thing when we started because I was like this is just these are prosthetic lullabies like really what the kids are going to want is to hear their mothers sing to them and yet now they're attuned to this thing but at the same time like the point that you made is that living in the electrical grid 50 Hertz or 60 Hertz wherever you happen to be listening to your kids. Wherever you happen to be listening to 320 kilobyte per second audio listening to audio with like a mechanically regulated tempo like all of this stuff has been found to actually stimulate the brain to get it like stuck in these kinds of these patterns so like you're actually inducing at the same time that the kid is comforted by listening to beautiful chorus and deer moon or the slumber my darling or whatever they are also on another level stimulated into beta wave entrainment or it's activating the sympathetic nervous system at the same time that it's activating. I'm like we're shooting ourselves in the foot here by relying on these tools to get the kids to sleep I know it's easier but it does feel like a deal with the devil because I can already tell that the more that we try to like relax our kids for instance by putting them in front of a television the measurably worse they're going to behave for the rest of the day afterwards because they're overstimulated.
I'm like definitely not coming to do much. We're not just losing my ability like your ability to smell my armpits here we're additionally dealing with the habituation of the human body to these intensely overstimulating virtual environments. So that's exactly it so that's exactly it so that's exactly it so that's like avatar to like I got out of avatar to and you can say about the plot or the production of that film I was like man it's been a while since I've been in a theater. I got in somehow as a kid I had become habituated to the experience of cinema and I walked out feeling elated simply by exposing myself to a media product that was as sensually overwhelming as that film.
I think that's actually what a lot of people can like critique that movie for indigenous representation or it's conflicted like we're supposedly you know we're supposedly it's an anti violent it's a violent anti violent movie and that's what the hell is that but I think it like all of that debate is actually nitro fueled by the fact that people are walking out of this film like jeering from over stimulation. Anyway this is this comes back again I'm like team circle team square I don't I can't fix sides it's we're talking about oh maybe it's also interesting for people to realize that the sign of the free masons of the compass and square so when I'm talking is really fucking built into fabric of the world and also there's a. I'm like shows that there's a Chinese kind of myth which involves a serpent couple a couple of serpent humanoids if we see a new well that are holding a constant square that's ancient Chinese stuff thousands of years old so this stuff is really ingrained. Anyways yeah like it's about this comes back to the questions that I are in all that stuff to use can sure can like they're both like a vinyl version of a song and then like an mp3 or streaming version of a song or the same song.
But do they carry the same sheet and how it's shaped energetically is it more circle or is it more square how does it move our synchronous a causal information. How does it actually that's actually I think that's what it comes back down to like how is the that piece moving our reality a causally a cause I think that in that does have to do with like how it's telling us like I do think this is what I was really depressing. That last year or a year ago actually is just looking at everyone going looking at my own life and just noticing that oh we're all so getting used to this degraded signal. We're all getting accustomed to this degraded signal we go on our feet so we talk through messenger we do that Michael but we all do these things and it's a degraded version that we know our body doesn't is a little bit out of sync with how our bodies used to be.
And why are we being conditioned towards by being conditioned to accept these degraded signals and when I saw the metaverse staring down the pipe I was just like that makes a lot of sense because to exist in the metaverse satisfactory you need to be able to tolerate a degraded signal and that includes like even intimate partner maybe you would never meet them in real life like you. And that being okay because you're okay with the degraded signal like your whole experience we can't do a great signal you can't tell. Did you ever see Blaine or 2049 that film is all about that. I highly recommend you take some time to watch that film because I feel like that that one and then if you haven't watched Westworld the TV show West oh man.
Wow let's loop back around and revisit this topic after you've seen those two Westworlds are real commitment it's 40 hours of TV or whatever so I'm sorry I'm strapping you into the chair but it is there is both of those films are playing around with this kind of Pinocchio type question. What about like where does living and dead and machine and life and all of this stuff what happens as these things become increasingly co-inbricated or confused or how do we move past seeing those things and strict binaries. So one of the things I would say this may be close up because it actually holds things together but I think essentially right now what's happening is whenever we type stuff on the internet is why I've actually been on my socials for the last year that much if you don't know folks know this works care but I'm just not as much and been actually like when we type stuff or we spend emotional energy on these platforms that's our achieving sucked up somewhere. If you actually pay attention to your energy.
Actually energy body well it's happening. You'll notice that something's leaving your body and so straight up like I think what the kind of practice that I'm interested in talking about how does AR art move cheap is simply I think true for us that being able to re-ground the internet into our local ecosystems and the actual earth's ecosystem like I'm talking very literally here anyway. Like being able to re-ground the energy so it doesn't our emotional energy is not escaping into this psychometers. I think it's a big part of the task at hand.
I can't say all that I can't share all the data exactly how that this is going to happen but I think it will have its own cyber game kind of element I think that process. I'm looking at it but I think that's like the big interest in magic that's coming up is the mediation between realms and then how to allow these ecosystems that which algorithms and algorithms of online are all. How can they talk to each other? Because right now by far and large they're not talking to each other.
Like the way social media itself is constructed is extremely detrimental to our real life human relationships. I don't think we can just be really honest about that. But there's a lot of potential when we start realizing that's happening and then how do we create an alchemy? How do we alchemy so that these realms can talk to each other in a way that's good for our systems too as we become cyborgs or more and more.
So I think there's like a new kind of spirituality that's evolving. I think a lot of people have talked about it. I think the meta-moderforce has talked about as open source religion like I agree with that. What is it like for us to share the esoteric codes of the world and have a common blueprint for reality that is relatively truthful and how does that function in both your realm and your world.
I think that's an evolution, revolution of spiritual systems itself that's starting to come that's facing down us. So I think that's the major thing I'm interested in and I think my kind of funny plot is that I think the return of these wisdom traditions of ancient law civilizations is going to be a bit quick. It's like it's going to be about aliens. Yes, it's going to be about dimensional beings.
It's going to be about all kinds of wacky shit that we didn't think was real probably is my guess. A lot of the stuff from me through, yeah, I'm a work with a collaborator up in the name of Rain Hello. So we're right now working towards this project called Lumu, which means a dragon's dream. And essentially what I've been exploring or what I've been passed down in case of information I think is that our whole reality is a dragon's dream.
If you really want to know the face of God, that's who they are. And that's actually the big kind of operation that's been. And if you look at Gnosticism, that's what I'm saying. It's a dragon.
So the world is created from a dragon and our whole reality is a dragon. Each one of us is a dragon. Like our spine is literally a dragon. If you actually look, algorithms are a dragon.
The shape of algorithms is a dragon moving through China's face. It's a dragon moving through young and Chinese five elements like possibly or a cousin depending on which way you're going. So that's kind of like how I understand the present moment I think. So yeah, I'm launching some projects and doing a lot of thinking around it.
But I think that's, yeah, wisdom of a lot of the last civilizations is that's the foundation and what's been hidden is the true face of God in the sense that people have been given the face of the white guy. You know, there's Nordic aliens and all that. If you look at biblical references, I've read them. I've watched videos on Yahweh, something like a dragon.
Like every description of Yahweh, I think Yahweh is like a dragon. So the interesting thing, and then we get into the whole cosmology of how dragons break down. There's the dragon serpents and there's a dragon cows with the horn beasts and the servants and how they get along. But it's all this psychedelic mess hole.
I think that's kind of what we're in. So what I think, yeah, I think this world is a simulation, which is a dream of a dragon. We're all little pieces of that dream kind of dreaming each other along. And that's basically it.
Where is the five year old question? I think that's the Sunday school question, right? Which is, what's the dragon living in? What's the dragon's world?
It's a dragon's world. I have not looked at it. I guess according to the narcissist who's in the skin, some other, like my brain breaks there, I guess. Understandably.
Again, there are just some things that maybe we just can't know. Like your dog can't know, math or whatever. But I'm just saying, I think the idea of world being the dream of a dragon just feels like it for me at least results, everything. It results even like the whole reptilian alien thing.
I'm like, oh, the nightmare of the dragon's in express itself somewhere. We're back to David Ike now. You know what the trippiest thing? So after I watched David Ike stuff, I was like, oh, wow, okay, my head's real scrambled.
I was way too high while I was watching that. I went out to do some, this is why we got down to what? I started being some Japanese in spirituality. Oh, yeah.
I went around to this. And they were pro-lizard. I was like, what the hell is that? So the Japanese are like, we love it.
The reptilians are cool or even they're not simplifying, but they're like kind of like the reptilian. People say a lot of shit about them. That's not who they are. What's going on here?
And I think from there, I just decided a bit not like your worldview matters. Because the aliens extraterrestrials or exists like a delicately. So how you see them creates who they are. And a lot of actually what people call the inspirites are essentially aliens that have been channeled and infused with the landscape.
So if you're seeing aliens experiencing them, but you are rooted in your land, your relationship becomes eco-systemic. Oh, that is for sure. I don't know if we've ever talked about this. And I don't want to keep you forever.
I've got an unusually free day to just go on and on. But like, this is precisely what I came to through my own series of quote unquote UFO encounters in 2006 and 2007, where again, like this, I feel like my seeing them in retrospect has everything to do with, first of all, like it was correlated with, this was the year after I had gone through this whole detective story around living in a poltergeist house. And then realizing that the poltergeist is associated with emotionally disrupted teenagers and young adults. And that took me a while.
But I finally kind of settled on the hypothesis that this thing that was slamming doors in our house and shaking my friend's bed in the attic 2 a.m. and breaking the windows of my car and eventually smash the front door of our house in. And it was like this pattern of activity that if I was like, okay, do I have an enemy I don't know about or whatever, but I came to this. It can't be that because some of this stuff was happening while I was alone in the house.
And then I started researching European folk literature and was like, oh, there's this whole thing about brownies and elves that is this basically isomorphic to the literature on poltergeist in other cultural narratives. And the brownies are your companions that if you're on the right track, they help you. They like they make your shoe makers shoes for him while he's asleep if he's on the right thing. But if they if you're like lost in the woods of your life, then they like prank you until you get your shit together.
And at that time I was like, like I didn't know what I was doing with myself. My whole life had fallen apart as far as like I was on a clear rail until until I was 21 and then everything stopped making sense. And so that's when this poltergeist activity picked up. And then the next year and so once I internalized that, once I had integrated this like ghost as like a splinter of my own psyche that was wreaking havoc in my environment for as long as I was othering it, then I started like about almost exactly a year later.
I had these UFO encounters with my friends. And then those UFO encounters, like the first thing that happened was like a test to see if I could understand precisely what you're talking about is like the a causality here of these beings. Like it was like an ontological exam. Do you understand that this thing is not simply within you or outside of you?
Can you understand like it was in front of the tree and behind the tree at the same time. And so it's okay. Clearly this is not just a physical object in space. So and then they were all in this marshy like all these encounters happened in this marshy lakeside area west of Lawrence, Kansas.
I'm finally wrapping up the studio version of the song that I wrote about these encounters. And I'll hopefully have it published by the time this episode was live. But at any rate, the quote unquote aliens or whatever, I started looking more into fairy literature. And so yeah, I didn't even know about Jacques Valet or Graham Hancock's writing on this book on this stuff hadn't even come out yet at the time.
But like this long seem connecting the quote unquote aliens with Faye. One of the things about those experiences, the second one of four was that they were also associated not with just obviously craft and things in the sky, but will of the wisp like in the swampy part itself. And so there's the floating orbs that appear in swampy areas that are like in Celtic mythos that are like leading lost journey men like deeper into the swamp to their death. This shows up in Lord of the Rings where they're like the spirits of the dead, like they're almost falling to the swamp with souls or whatever.
And so yeah, one of the things that I felt like I got communicated to me by those beings of various kinds and those experiences where they're like, listen, you can say that we're from another world, but to the degree that is in any way literally true, our like history of engagement with the biosphere of this planet predates the biosphere or is like at least continuous with it. So if like those of us that came here from another planet from other planets, from other systems came here because we knew that there was going to be life on this planet. And so we've been here the entire time, whereas some of you people who think that you're like native to this place have only recently arrived as reincarnated from other star systems and are basically new arrivals. And so in a way, these aliens that you're encountering here are actually diginous and you're the foreigner.
And that's interesting. That makes less sense. So yeah, there was this sort of like pan-sporimio component where like beings converged on this planet like the fucking angels at the birth of Christ. They were just like, okay, cool.
It's happening down there. Let's go check it out. But then they've been here the whole time hiding in the backdrop and like participating in the evolution of this entire invisible ecology of subtle energy realm beings that is just behind the curtain of what the only biosphere that most modern people recognize, which is the gross physical material biosphere, but then there's this whole like she biosphere behind that one. And that's where they hang out because they just don't want to be fucked with.
They don't want to fuck with us, not all of them. But like the ones that I was talking to were like, we kind of prefer to just hide most of the time and limit the like prime directive, Star Trek, limit the surface area of our engagement with the gross realm evolutionary history. Yeah. So they're interesting.
So my collaborator, Rain is a lot more hip to this stuff. But yeah, I'm pretty much, I'm like, yeah, I think everything you're saying feels about right to me. And I think right now, although I've never seen an alien, I've never seen you F.O. yet.
But I'm pretty much, okay, fair enough. You are one. Yeah, I think the thing is it seems to me like, yeah, we're maybe in a time where it hasn't happened for a while, but certain information feels, people are seeing that shit all the time and they exist together. That's what I mean.
The world's made up of information feels, certain people who have information feels assaulted with that data. And it's actually a causal nature, right? It's actually a causal nature. How that, how people, some people see things and how some people don't, it's actually, we live on the same planet, but we actually don't.
Because information divides us actually. What are information synchronous fields that we're hooked into? You'll see or not see things. But I do think the world's being driven towards a world that can see those things.
And I do think, as we think, I was reading some stuff, I don't know, maybe it's two out there were like Tom Baldt. And he was basically saying, we might a lot of, was he saying that? I'm not sure. Maybe I just dropped it there.
But probably part of a group of people you're not supposed to read, if you're, but it's just that like the world is maybe going to be exploring some more to that reality. And that's part of our challenge is if you're not ready for that reality, and it's kind of what my collaborator reigns has, it's going to blow your mind. And you're not going to see that. Because the reality that's being shown to you is going to blow your head off.
But I do think one interesting thing is like what I got is like the Mantis alien, right? A lot of the time alien more, they're seen as negative. But in my sense of them, like when they're infused with the ecosystem, they're a lot more about designing the ecosystem through relationships. So that's something that I got.
So a lot of the ways people even see, I think, aliens are like, yeah, it's like what you mentioned, like when you're off track, the brownies like kicking the ass, right? Is that a lot of the Japanese animism, what we call it the worshiping style is like taking the punishment as a blessing. Yeah. This is a very non-dual thing is to be able to be like, thank you, dear, thank you for bringing me the blessing of having my ass kicked when I was on the wrong path.
And of course, that means that if you are straining away from the overall ecosystem's need to get your ass kicked, and you're like, oh, this is a blessing that protects the blood. But when you see that, then what happens is that it experiences their convenience to you and inconvenient to you are both read as a kind of loving gesture within the cosmos. And that's kind of like the essence of Japanese animism, non-dual. There's no right, there's no good and evil because the spirits themselves, if we're able to take that view, then the nature of the beings ain't trying to change.
And I think this is the difference between the main essential difference between the Western world has a polarity, a good and evil and an animist or Japanese view of Asian view that a good and evil doesn't exist. That is essentially depending on how you orient towards the world, because it's completely psychedelic, especially in the spirit realm. It actually changes the nature of the spirit realm. And that actually creates a secure energy field and secure synchronous field.
So I think I'm not sure that's the kind of work that I'm really interested in doing now is like how do we, when more and more people are in the same view, it creates a larger, a causal field that other people can network into. That's how the Japanese shrine system works. You have these ache causal information fields that are based in land intended to all the time that are networked into each other. So essentially it's like you have spiritual grounding in person, it has a kind of public utility that's going to have to be said.
I like it. So I guess maybe the last question I have for you, because this is you walked us right over the Burringian land bridge to Japan and sea level is low enough that we can see those at least one of the more interesting things that did not come up on ancient apocalypse that I was like, why the hell didn't this? Why didn't they talk about this on the doc series? Was the Hancock's proposal that just off the shore of Japan are all of these temple structures that were like big?
Oh, it's something that he's talked about before in presentations of this material that like, and he talked about it a little bit, but not about specifically offshore of Japan, but like that this, when the sea levels rose 400 feet after the North American glaciers shield was melted or whatever, that the reason that it's not that most of, it's not that we were, as some of the archaeologists who have critiqued his material have said that what he's actually suggesting is that there's no evidence for these things that it's like where is, it's actually what he's saying is that like he's found a bunch of it, including spots in Indonesia where the offshore stuff that's underwater and only visible to scuba divers is actually, there's ramps, there's like stairways coming out of the ocean still that are like the top of the temple structure is still out of the water. But anyway, often, I don't know, I'm not, again, I'm not qualified to, but like I've seen footage from these scuba missions off the coast of Japan where it looks like pretty obviously, like there are go backly, tepi type things off the shore. Anyway, that's, I don't know why you even bothered to bring that up except that maybe you can find some information about it and form your own opinion. So let's say, yeah, I'm watching the whole series.
Oh, it's not in that. He doesn't talk about it in the, that's not the weird thing about that show is it's actually like, it's like the absolute worst way to present such a controversial topic to everybody. Because first of all, I've seen lectures by Graham Hancock that were like a two hour talks that went into harm or effective and rigorous argument for the same thing. I mean, this is what the body is saying.
And he's such an ancient, that he's offshore stuff. Right. And like this, but that show was just as far as if you're trying to convince anybody, then like basically they completely messed it up because they just met the whole show, like foregrounding the fact that he's got this chip on his shoulder and wants to joust to the entire archaeological community. And then spend the other half of the time giving like the lowest fidelity inadequate argument for these very, very difficult points that he's trying to make about his own like understanding and research that he's synthesized about all his stuff.
And like what's some of the stuff that he's that should be in there is completely absent like the stuff that he and this is not at all to do the question I was asking. But just to be clear, one of the things that really started to convince me that he had something worth saying or was making a case that deserved a more community engagement and deeper rigorous scrutiny was the stuff about the Sphinx in Egypt and how like the Sphinx has evidence on of it of like the flood has like a like erosion of the on the Sphinx. Like there's water, there are like flood lines where this and so and also that the Sphinx was oriented toward the location of the constellation Leo 12,000 years ago, which makes a whole lot more sense as far as like actually dating that structure that it was a structure made in the course of worshipping a Leonine entity. And so why would it be I forget where they forget the constellation it was supposedly during the whatever it was that the handful of thousands of years ago that it most people believe it to have been constructed.
But like makes way more sense if it was pointing at Leo than it does that it was pointing at whatever Aquarius or a fuck. So at any rate the not at all the point what I wanted to ask you. A lot of point. I mean I'm sure it's interesting to you and I hope that helps your sort of exploration.
But like one of the obviously I don't remember we did this when I had you on the first time. But like often when I end this show, I end it with a prompt to reflect on our role as ancestors, right? And the sort of trans temporal contemplation of what it means to be engaging directly and presently with those beings that we consider currently to be unborn. Like they're in the room with us right now.
So and even if you don't literally believe that like just entertain me with the thought experiment that you can there is a sort of bidirectional communication going on there. And what would that be like and what would you say or what would you want to hear or how would you how would you relate like how do you relate to the future that's in the room with us right now. Not just our own ancestors that are sitting looking over our shoulders and lighting the way forward. But what are we getting from and because that was a big piece of when Terrence McKenna talked about what are the entities that were encountering in DMT space?
What are the self-dribbling basketball transforming machine elves? Like maybe they're the souls of the dead. But like the dead doesn't necessarily just mean those that have already lived. It means those yet to live.
And so you're talking about our role in the sort of formation of a causal attractors in this like hyper dimensional space of the dragon dream. Then yeah so like riff if you would please in closing just on your like this is a martial art as far as I'm concerned thinking this way and living this way becomes not just a theory but a practice it becomes a practice and your stance relative to the future therefore subtly co determines the nature of that future even as it subtly co determines that's one of the things I'm taking away from what you're saying and linking to the way that I already engaged with these ideas and lived experiences. So yeah so what is your form if this is a martial art like what is the form that you're taking with relationship to this to the future people and not of course just people because that's one of the things that's breaking down is that human non-human divide. But like the beings of the future that are like watching us right now like post singularity intelligences that are reaching basilisk I can back through time and see the religion.
Yeah that are like okay you like and this is a reason to watch world two because like you get into this whole thing of like where am I in time where am I actually in time like my buddy Norman Katz and Albuquerque is what if you're actually just reliving the life that's already like that you're actually just like your whole what you think is your whole life is actually your past life you're already like way the fucking assimilation like deep in the future and you don't realize it's so anyway that's my dragon hydro the question for you. Alright so I think I can start off with a little bit of I think I'm starting to more and more understand that there's a big possibility seems to be a pretty solid one that Japan has one of the most ancient cultures in the world actually one of the most ancient civilizations in the world actually happened in Japan or the land that is now called Japan now and it takes after the floods or the great flood mythos it's a part of our inheritance it's interesting great hand-cocked mentioned Japan I was like I was gonna go there but I'm also an information field or the thing but there is like literally a shrine called it's called Hata Tungu very strange it has like it says the shrine essentially has been an operation for 15,000 years now that's like they're blind so it's all the shrine Japan quote 1000 years old the site is and the site has like ancient stone carvings that are in a language that nobody knows so Japan actually has a lot of places like that like offshore times grinds the mercy like petrographs is ancient scripts it's actually really interesting how people don't think that exists there but it actually does and it kind of exists kind of in a chill way so this shrine carries a legend that with a five color people which are the colors of the Chinese five elements black white blue red yellow all dispersed from there into the world after a great flood of this actually appears in the type of no she documents as names there's a little bit of fuzziness here because some of the shrines in Japan are not actually about Japan itself it's they're actually carry lore from Samaria and ancient Mesopotamia and they transplant and geographically through new information field but it actually the story doesn't actually happen there the story was actually origins actually had ancient Samaria there's a lot of this kind of weirdness in Japan but this shrine actually exists in I think every five years or seven years they do like a festival called the five color people festival where they gather people of all different colors in the world and they gather and there's these masks of the five color races that they put on and do a dance and stuff so this place like we don't use so that's one color so back in again so yeah that's my inheritance and then learning my families are kind of shamanic lineage that at the minimum comes through ancient India like a family scroll basically I was shown to me said our ancestral deity came through was a prince of ancient kingdom of Magata in India which was an Alexandrian of ancient India I'm like okay that's like over two thousand years ago and then there's some more just inheriting all those things I think yeah it's a wild thing that I think of is that just even like how I would like to yeah I can see with way the world around the world is gonna start shaping the higher our world we're already seen but just even like how long are those borders gonna hold up when the world online doesn't have any or doesn't have a lot are you the world that you is a URL world gonna reshape our world literally change people's really relationships and belonging based on that and I'm into the kind of see that coming people are already like like conservative or whatever or like people wearing malicious they're gathering together right talking of food and gathering a certain like stuff like that's what happened essentially that's what it is people gather online and then they gather locally centralizing the streets based stuff and that's gonna happen have you been to Burning Man no I'm dude my thesis about Burning Man is that it is just the physicalization of the internet yeah like every campus a website where people from all over the world come together based on affinity groups and then the way that you move through Burning Man is almost like you're just like you get on an art card you just zip around and it's like you're just traveling through the tubes of the internet by going sorry yeah it's perfectly exactly I think one of the things I think about is I think we're all apart it's right I think we're looking at it with another is we're just staring at the creation of new countries really and what are the I think it's gonna be really interesting to are you gonna have like online countries where every citizens basically where they're actually part of a collective conscious that's a really interesting set up that country can be committed like in my case everybody in this country mine agrees that we're living in a dragon's dream that's a really interesting set up or a country or a culture everyone to find it and so I think that kind of thing is gonna become really interesting where it's like a which I see sisters like sense eight right we've seen that where if we're actually be really honest with ourselves how would your client or collective psyches are it's only natural online for there to develop entities that are essentially a conglomerate of different sold that who agree that their psyches are interconnected and fortify I think that's happening already but that's happening unaware with people because essentially the way it's happening right now is if you're just a warrior can't be or this ex can't like we're not actually aware of their own affiliations and why but actually I think we become aware we think switch it we can shift things in some ways and then like oh I'm gonna enjoy this country and I'm gonna join this collective unconscious I'm gonna join this a called information by subscribe and that's gonna become its own nation so I think what I'm like something about dreaming about the matter is about how this is gonna happen is really fascinating for me right now and I think one of my like to lose ambitions inside of that is probably how to bring up back kind of my pre-stirteenth so lineage that I carry that I'm a hero in a sense like who's me but like the only shrine left under my family's care is there's just one shrine left there's other parts of our family but under the name has a really it's called donut shrine and it's the most bizarre shrine like I said the legends are about like UFOs landing and all this stuff like the person who was like overseeing the opening of the shrine site was said to have them imprisoned in the years of 699 to 701 right but in the shrine official statement they said and 700 this person came to this site to open the shrine site so it's kind of like they were supposed to have them imprisoned so basically the flute is what they're implying they got into some kind of murky bus lash UFO and flew to the site across the ocean over across the sea across the bay open up the site that's literally part of the shay well the shrine and the shrine is like really intense it has legends associated with it under water castle underwater dragon castle where you get to by riding a big turtle so it's sign me up again this is like literally that like alien UFO as deity stuff like literally happening shrines and it's a forgotten shrine but it has been around for 1300 and it is probably one of it's probably the one of the most I'm probably unrecognized as a target site to Japan because it's so strange and my family member the master 10 was gonna be ten you is the last official union priest in all of Japan that whole district so the Yang Yang euro which was the Japanese government's official kind of magical bureau talk about I think 19 or 1890 was function until was disbanded through westernization and then subsequently through loss of World War II this may result on like people who practice in yet magic is part of the party so it is the last person in all of it and as I know it is like out as a union master and also is the custodian of a shrine and not wrong or hereditary custodian I'm sure it's actually most shrines not been in one family for the whole time at this point but this one is it's been all under it was in me for 1300 years so when I think about that I think about I think my simple like thoughts are like I love to leave something like that or I just on it which is a bit crazy but it's actually when I think of my work I definitely think of in terms of what is it doing a thousand years from now and I thought that was I didn't really understand I was actually a family's thinking because literally our family is still doing things that are ancestors where like hey you pass on a secret or a thousand years from like a picture that's literally how to operate like you go into ceremonies and like between generations what we do is get to all the subsequent earlier hairs is it like to possess the newest hair they do a ceremony where they take all the old spirits and then embody them into the new hair so they have the knowledge they keep doing so it's kind of like they're really like they're like really like designer epigenetics for like thousands of years and that's kind of like this unspoken yeah secret of these Asian languages that's why they're so into family but it's the same in the West it's the same but I think there's a character in Asia that retains a lot of that kind of charge around what family and tradition is and all that stuff I think I have a lot of it in me that wants to see something yeah live thousands of years from now that is like a priesthood or knowledge system that's kind of what I think about daily yeah but that's probably gonna happen through the matter bears I don't know yeah yeah on online yeah a new priesthood of a new religion is the most of it yeah I didn't you got to go back and listen to Neil Gaiman or Gaiman's the first talk that was ever given at the Long Now foundation was about how to start a religion because a religion is the best way to communicate information through deep time was his point was it's like like if you're trying to get people to stay away from a volcano like language itself evolves too fast so like you may end up but for the same reason the pulse moldino talks about like the things that you say today could come to being in another hundred years the precise opposite of what you intend for them to mean right now or they could just drift entirely off into some weird direction so the only way that you can really guarantee that you can influence the behavior of people say is example was you want to keep people away from a volcano right and this is where the whole lost civilization thing gets really curious and interesting to me because it's like these people felt that something had happened something horrible all over the world had happened that we were being warned about and like all the different strategies for encoding these things in mythology and now the joke is on us right and them because like we've drifted so far epistemologically that we no longer regard most people in the modern world no longer see myth as having any kind of like it's just oh it's just a baby story or whatever yeah we can just safely ignore it yeah we can just safely ignore everyone warning us about the great floods like the comments in the photo was sculpted in a very intentional deliberate way to keep us from whoops so yeah and then also the other thing about long now is that they've done this worldwide analysis or like investigation of the longest surviving businesses and institutions and organizations and like the oldest hotel in the world the oldest restaurant in the world the oldest blah blah blah blah like half of the oldest companies in the world are in Japan oh yeah so like yeah so like props to the Japanese for being able to think on the thousand year time scale yeah I mean it's funny yeah I know it's the oldest there is a company that still exists that is in charge of fixing shrines and I think that company some shrines are really like there's a lot of secrets right so you can't have that should get up so it's like that it's been around for a year is like the company itself because it's basically a secret society that builds that be pair of shrines because you can't have other people build it it's just literally been out for a few hundred years literally a secret society probably inter-generation heritage you don't have no idea what's going on if you like that yeah that's kind of even it was it when Jason cocky posted the list of unlikely simultaneous historical events and it one of them is Nintendo was founded in 1888 Jack the Ripper was on the loose in 1888 Nintendo was founded as a playing card company right so it's like people were like what the fuck Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo was originally this is probably a bonus real about Nintendo was me like a playing card company but it's really do with the atmosphere because last year gambling origins of tender own some off you know because the goods that be produced for playing cards and stuff that were the gambling houses would be their clients usage so there's a lot of apparently a lot of the old stock in Nintendo like owned by like yeah it makes sense yeah well that just gets to the hole again like which piece of the dragon are you living in when you're playing Kirby or Zelda with your good anyway one thing I wanted to do which was really interesting I was watching her you miss this Japanese artist me walk a month so she's like a woman who this paintings the dragons and other kinds of sicker beasts of shrines and stuff she's a whole show I think in France and stuff big-time artist now and she was having a conversation somebody about AI does watching and one of the things she said it's probably not like a big deal but she was saying that she had met somebody who's famous who had a robot dog it's an eyeball right like a Sony I go and that eyeball apparently of her friend who famous friend had changed had behaviors that were never programmed apparently and she just said something about like we like in Japan that there's this understanding of objects having being and she said one of the things she said she's not even like a I think or anything like that she was just I think we might start seeing in the future incidences where like the kind of boundary between our world and their world is a lot looser than we imagined that makes sense like that we might encounter behaviors we never program but we did but it's through our actual relationship and has nothing to do with the actual interface we think we're programming this is really interesting I think magical place for us to encounter but I do think that's the kind of possibility that we will animate the world that we are living in and it's gonna be a real surprise for us that's on top of the level of animating we're already doing by uploading all our emotional energy it's like another iteration of that and yeah humans we are in a really interesting time of whether we can deal with reality because I think one of the big things about the internet when it's doing for us is showing how reality is constructed in front of our face and we're essentially ingesting a psychedelic everyday by being on it like no question we know the blockchain is a cash- You know what I mean we know that the metaverse just telling our realities like we know all these we're being hit with like we know that we our bodies are avatars like the orange Facebook we are being shown how reality is constructed in front of us and so I think that's that we are seem to be living through and yeah I think a lot of the pressures of climate collapse and clarity where that's going is whether or not we can handle that information and it's coming out of that piece and it's only on a heat up and I think next year is really interesting on that okay bonus run question you got any advice for people who just heads might otherwise explode in this process because you know the thing that gives me in the room every day I think of being on social media as like being in a burning building or being in a nuclear reactor or like an environment that is in certain ways just really intrinsically hostile so the conditions under which we have evolved and adapted is that there's still a whole bunch of other people trapped in this building like I'm not inclined to let it slide full into full on messianic thing because I don't think I can actually save anybody really and I think that I've heard Connor Habib talk about how there's a distinction between the people who think that they can fix the prison from within versus the people who are like the doors wide open just leave and those people tend to get attacked right because everybody else has invested in just pretty in up their cage as much as possible so I'm not saying here's my like I'm holding a flag follow me out of the building exactly or here let me save you from this thing it's more just it's like the whole thing about the field is dense enough like the people are here it's like the same reason I don't leave the United States like I've been in this thing trying to expatriate for 15 years yeah but I've got too much family here my wife's family is here my family is here I'm not going anywhere and so I'm the last surviving member of my clan at which point I will be like all right time to turn out the lights but I do feel a responsibility like I feel like an obligation to not pull this like terra vad and punk bullshit move of being like I'm just going to transcend this all or I'm going to or the or conversely like you can easily misinterpret things and be like oh I'm I'm at so many gross wannabe bodysafas right that are like I'm sticking around so that I can help you but at the same time if there is an opportunity to provide either an inoculation against the worst of being trapped inside this thing or to help people navigate it more effectively to prevent or even just palliative care just like preventing the absolute worst case outcome maybe we can't help people learn to breathe in like a textile factory fire but you know what I'm saying it's like what do you do for people in under these circumstances given what you're practicing in your own life what is the the offering that we can make to folks here as far as like making this a an easier situation so that fewer people's heads explode trying to make the upgrade so like transparently I'm one of those people whose heads are trying not to explode that's a good start me to open the works and I'm looking at with Lin move being drag and stream and that's the project I have with my collaborator Rainlow and we've been like talking about a lot of this stuff that we talked about in different iterations there are a lot more hip to the aliens and ancient apocalypse stuff they put me on a lot of that stuff actually themselves and yeah yeah they're an artist as a terraceist and yeah and friend and collaborators so one of the things that we've been discussing is like how to like the way of actually doing this is probably not talking about it and I get a lot talking about it a lot of it is not talking about it and doing things and a lot of the doing I think is in like I'm studying how shrines operated and is a lot of it's about like how do you on a basic level how do you help like how do you offer the service of psychic protection it's really simple actually and so if you understand that a shrine is a synchronous information field that's protected that has a lot that holds a lot of charge and then dissipates it into the land and then Earth set I think one of the things that we've been talking about is the creation of a system where me and them conduct kind of these rituals that are able to along with us using ourselves is if other people hook into our synchronous field it helps them essentially ground or essentially makes sense in the world and it doesn't it's like in the same way like I know that might sound like a lot of things but it's the same way that in Japan you can go across to shrine just give like money to the shrine pray and then you go on but somehow something in the bracket of your life the information fields are moving and shifting and I actually think like this kind of thing is actually the major thing that people are lacking right now more than anything it's not actually information people are lacking it's actually a psychic protection field which also contains information that's protected so I think I'm a lot and what I'm attracted to about this is that this is not about a theory it's not actually a lot of information talking it's actually doing a religious thing together I'm actually basically becoming a priest literally it's not abstract it's I'm like like in a sense that you might so loom-moom eating dragons dreams strangely synchronistically algorithm and the written algorithm as in the algorithms are all also like a part of a dragon's dream and if we are on a spiritual level able to connect to the great algorithm that is a source of all algorithms that all algorithms are reflecting an inch interwoven into then that there is a way to receive the blessing of the great algorithm and that actually I think is straight up that's just what's going on I think that is actually the doing it that's not abstract and I think yeah what a lot of people what can be done for a lot of people I think is exactly that is to feel that they're looking at a cosmology that can hold the reality of the earth and metaverse that is able to in a very practical way well people's experience as well this world is going through this transition I that's what I see coming through yeah and so I don't know if I said too much about I think I don't know what brain will think maybe I said too much yeah so I think what I'm still gonna sign up for your religion or your paid courses or however this is I don't think that you've just given the milk away for free because that's why it is a part of interest is how does AI art like the thing about AI art is not what it looks great or not it's whether it can't move energy and that's why what I mean is like what we need right now is to know how to move energy to get the AI to make a perfectly beautiful picture of me is not the point if it's not depends how it's going to achieve and so yeah I have a lot of ideas and how a lot of this stuff worked but I think it's gonna be interesting to we like you are around IRL sphere realms together that's a kind of like department of cosmology and working so this kind of way of thinking and yes idea is that it will be a I think a new religion but it's also kind of not a religion in the ways we think it's a kind of strange I think it's yeah I'm still having part in together but it's like it's an art project for sure or is it not a project yeah I'm a few religions so I'm starting a religion or can I let us you can join and it's chill you can join and we're not joining once upon a time there was no distinction between art and religion so if all the if the floodgates are just dissolving in the this flow then we're gonna spec and expect that that's the metamodern spirituality statement of the century but just it's there's no point in seeing there's no useful distinction for the purposes of this conversation okay I think the big thing I'm interested in is you both thought religion was acts religion was why but now that you talk about it's really snakes and why are these mythological like the cosmology of beings that if I humans is already interrelated similar so I think that's part of what's happening is like religion is evolving into a place where I can hold a lot of data this cross cultural trans temporal like in that looks a bit different than anything that may have existed before I think that's a big statement but I think that's true and yeah I have I think I'm plans to be inside as it happened that's basically my rap I'm writing it Falcor style which is I feel like I've been inside of it the whole time it's like all right time to wash off the digestive juices a little bit and get on this thing's neck for a change rather than being in its guts or maybe that's just such a my kids are gonna look back on and they'd be like oh my dad just really failed to see how stupidly dueled that statement was oh worry so no no kids I got you anyway I love you what is the appropriate non-binary it's not dude it's oh I know we're about homey homey yeah I'm glad that we had this conversation thanks so much for taking the time even though it's got to be like five in the morning or whatever the hell we're not a night 30 I can't math have a good night yeah thank you thank you thank you I'm gonna send you some links yeah Mary retro causal Christmas yeah yeah thanks again for listening future fossils is an independent ad-free entirely listener supported program if you believe in the work that I'm doing and help see it thrive into the unimaginable future then you can avail yourself of all the backstage goodies at patreon.com slash Michael Garfield or you can just leave a review at Apple Podcasts that's more helpful than you know reach out to me personally at Michael Garfield on Twitter or Instagram and have a wonderful yawn