2: Sinan Guler

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Impossible Podcast. A few housekeeping items before we get started. First, if you have enough to review and you're enjoying the podcast, go ahead and leave a review on iTunes or Google. It helps us out a ton.

I appreciate it. You don't even know. Second of all, I'm doing a business course through my consulting agency, Impossible X. It's a continuation of all the work we've done with Funded Startups and Bootstrap Companies.

And it's about building an online business in 2018. It's not necessarily like, it sounds like a lot of online courses out there. It's not really the same thing. We focus a lot on mindset, a lot on strategy, and then also a lot on actually taking action.

So the goal is in four weeks to take you from an idea to execution and get started on your online business. I'm not going to sell it too hard right now, but if you want to check it out, go ahead and check it out over on the business consulting site, ImpossibleX.com. And yeah, that's what we've got for today. Today's guest is Sonon Guehler.

He's a professional basketball player in Turkey. So he's got my dream job from when I was a little kid. And I had connected with him maybe a couple years ago. And I've been wanting to sit down and actually have a conversation with him for a long time about basketball, about life, about entrepreneurship, about venture funded ideas that he's working on.

And it's a really, really interesting interview. I had an awesome time talking with Sonon. I think learning about how his basketball journey kind of started to change the way he thought and change the way he approached different things in life is something that's really interesting that you don't necessarily think about. It's interesting to see him talk about the evolution of his career and how he had consciously choose to work on certain things over different periods of his career in order to make things work.

So I had a great time talking with him. Super chill guy. Really fun to just talk basketball and nerd out a little bit. Sorry if I get too geeky on the NBA stuff here, but it's a fun interview.

I hope you guys enjoy and let's get started. All right, and we're live. Today my guest is Sonon Guehler. I got that right.

Yes, you did. That is correct. That's both of the things I was scared of. That's pretty good.

I was scared of my American accent. I was going to come on too strong. But today my guest is Sonon Guehler. He's a basketball player for the world-known Fener Bosch team in the Euro League.

If you're American, you might not know a whole lot about the Euro basketball team situation. But as I found out, we might talk about it a little bit later. I found out who Fener Bosch was pretty quickly by questioning it to a bunch of angry Euro fans. So Sonon, welcome to the impossible podcast.

Hey, thanks for having me. I know that you and I were talking a long time to make this happen. And I'm glad we're making it happen right now. Yeah, it was a, I think we initially talked two years ago, maybe a year and a half at least.

And yeah, just going back and forth and seeing what you were up to and some of the changes in careers that you've made. And it's good to finally connect. Yes, yes. I'm very glad.

And I haven't fallen up on all your stuff and the hiccups that you run into along the way. And I'm glad that you're still standing up pretty strong. I'm still lying. But yeah, so I was really excited about today's interview because you do for a living.

What I always sort of wanted to do. This is what I wanted to do for the first, I want to say 22 years of my life was play professional basketball. And I grew up as a kid outside Chicago. And I think it was a law outside Chicago that if you, you know, were any sort of athlete, you had to emulate Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls and you play basketball.

That's all over the world. I grew up imitate everything that he has been doing. So, and so when, you know, I don't even know when the first time I picked up a basketball was, but I play basically from, how old can you play basketball at like seven years old? Or, you know, as soon as I could play park district basketball, I had a ball in my hands, through high school and even through some like lower level community college level type basketball.

And at some point in there, I realized I wasn't going to quite make the NBA. You don't get a lot of a lot of a six to white dudes who can't jump and play pretty good defense making the NBA. So I realized that wasn't going to be happening. But you, my friend, have made that happen with quite a bit of success.

And so I would love to jump into your story about like how you got into basketball, where that all came from and just kind of have you take us through how you got started and how you made a career out of becoming a professional basketball player. Thank you. First of all, I think that's the one joke that I do about how I got into basketball is I'm continuing the family business. My father used to play basketball until the beginning of 90s.

And he has been like the point guard of the Turkish national team, which when these times between 80s and 90s and 70s, it's not a professional sport in Turkey or in Europe. It's semi amateur where my father had to be a businessman on the side and play basketball at the same time. So it was kind of those times where he was one of the best players in Turkey. And he ended up having two sons, one older than me, Murat Jan, who's also playing basketball right now.

And we basically were born on basketball court and grew up in it. So for us, I think life without basketball was pretty hard to catch. I think as soon as my brother started playing basketball around six or seven, my mom kicked me out of the house because I was very energetic and hyperactive. So she said, go follow your brother, do whatever you want to do in the gym.

So I started being in the basketball court around four, three and a half, four, just like that. And since then I've been on it and I've been I have been blessed to make this professional job. No, it's awesome. What's the what's the setup for how basketball players are kind of developed and groomed and Europe versus the US and US we have OK, go to middle school, high school, a you ball pretty much people.

They have an idea of who the NBA draft picks are going to be by the time, you know, who's going to be a ready towards the end of high school. And he has already kind of have an idea. A lot of people do what I'm done. You get a few people that go through the college system, but a lot of times those four years seniors aren't even as desirable as the 19 year old that just went to school for one year.

So I know in Europe it's quite a bit different. And a lot of times the European prospects are evaluated differently in the NBA. But as far as the developmental process, OK, you pick up a ball at you know, four or five. What did it look like from there?

Were we just playing on courts, you know, around Turkey or were you following your dad around, you know, with his team and everything? Were you like in leagues, learning fundamentals, doing, you know, doing a little bit more organized basketball? I think the main difference between American sports and European sports in general is the grassroots programs in United States. As you said, you know, from middle school, you can start performing in school teams.

And you end up even like if you're talented or interested, you can play at least four sports in one year as a middle school or high school student. In I know in high school, it moves towards a two sport thing. And then in college, you have to decide what kind of talent you have. And you move towards a sports that you're more capable of doing, or you have a chance of earning a scholarship.

In Turkey, what we have is generally a sports club. And where me and my brother started playing is where my father was playing professionally, like at the highest level as of an age group. And when we started, it was a sports club connected to a university in Turkey, but has no relationship as far as the university students could play in the team. But not many players actually managed to do that because as far as my experience goes, it's very hard to continue as school life with a professional level basketball playing.

So we started playing basketball in a sports club. I played them in that team until I was 16. And then I moved to Bechikash, which is one of the oldest sports club in Turkey. And it started off as a gymnastic club, gymnastics clubs actually.

And then after that moved to soccer, and it is one of the most rooted clubs in Turkey. I played there for another year in youth programs. And then I was a part of their professional team for a year. But at the age of 17, I wasn't strong enough, athletic enough.

I didn't grow up to my full height at that time at the age of 17. And I wasn't finding many options for myself to be satisfied as a basketball that I was playing. So I started looking for options on what can I do. Then after that period, I went to a basketball camp that my father was running at the time.

It was a camp that was connected to the Turkish basketball federation. And they were bringing a lot of college coaches from the United States. So they can oversee the camp and teach coaches and players some fundamentals of basketball. And I met Joe Cravens of Weber State there.

He used to coach Weber State when I end up going to Utah. And he told me that I could be a decent player. I had the chance in the United States and in college basketball. Although I was late to apply for anything for Weber State caliber team where the one school in NCAA has different rules and different approaches to process of admissions and everything.

So he hooked me up with Salt Lake Community College in Salt Lake. And I ended up going there for two years learning American and college basketball. And throughout that time, then I moved to Carroll College to a four year school in NAA. And it went on like that.

So I had a chance to, before becoming a real pro, I had a chance to get a taste of both European style of clubs and all that stuff. And at the same time, some taste of college basketball at the same time too. So that's really interesting because you see a lot of, I probably watched too much NBA. I don't really pay attention to any other sport other than the NBA.

But you see a lot of talk about American prospects going over the guys who just want to play a kind of street ball and throw up shots, tend to go over to China and where they can just go do whatever they want. But then you hear about if they're really serious about getting back to the league or they want to actually play competitive basketball, they'll go back over to Europe. So I'm really curious on, and you've seen a lot of the European players that have come over to the NBA be really successful because they have a really strong focus on fundamentals. And I'm curious from your perspective, kind of coming the other direction of what it's like, what are the main differences between broadly European basketball and American basketball.

And then even college, the nuances between like maybe college basketball versus the club system that you're in and how that differs from a European perspective because a lot of times we'll hear from American perspective, but it's different when you start in that club environment. I think that from my time with my growing up, I think it changed a lot because now a lot of individual trainers help American players grow in fundamental ways. But I must say this, I also, when I was younger, between the ages of, I want to say, 13 and 17, I went to a lot of basketball camps in the United States. I've been to like the five-star basketball camp, I've been to a couple of my Jordan basketball camps, one in Santa Barbara, one in Chicago.

I went to Philadelphia, seven, six in basketball camp, some imitations that Converse used to run back in the day with now what Hoops groups is doing. So I've seen a lot of kids at my age growing up in similar situations. And what I was seeing fundamentally Europe is ahead of American basketball until high school was over. Now I have to put aside the great prospects like, let's the biggest example we can give is LeBron James, he came right out of the high school knowing that he was going to be a superstar.

Knowing that like the fundamental changes we would at those ages at age of 16, 17, we would play a lot better than the kids our age that are from America. But they have a quick catch-up line when college years start because in college, what I tend to meet as far as coaches go, they're more inclined on creating people, improving people's life. And that means that they teach not only fundamental basketball, but also fundamental aspects of life also. So a lot of catching up is done during college years and I see that basketball becomes more fundamental in the United States when college basketball starts being played.

And after that, you know, NBA is something as far as the level of basketball and quickness of basketball goes is something that we cannot compare to anything else in the world right now. It's in the top level for sure. Now, if we look at the professional level and how the basketball is going, I think that the main differences of the top two weeks, NBA and EuroLeague, if we want to talk about it, is the tempo of the game is getting closer to NBA level in EuroLeague. But I think that NBA, EuroLeague needs more physical knowledge of basketball.

I think that because there are so many rules in the NBA that I don't understand right now knowing some of them, I know that I couldn't survive in the rules in the NBA because I know that there are some rules that does not belong in EuroLeague. And I think that that creates some more physicality in some ways. And at the same time, I know that the athleticism of NBA is not comparable to anything else. And I think one more thing that stands out in EuroLeague that is being used widely now more and more in NBA is the team cohesiveness and not relying on one or two players of the team, but running some kind of team system.

I think that's the best example for this is San Antonio Spurs, of course. But I know, like, even though the Warriors is like super quick team, since they're all super stars in the offensive side of the game, they know how to run together. They know how to share the ball and they know how to run a defense that works out for their system. And I think that in Europe, this type of situation is more looked for in the teams and in the coming of the successes of the teams in Europe.

It's funny that you mentioned the Spurs because the Spurs, I think more so than any other team in the NBA, take explicitly take a lot of their tenants and their organizing principles from European teams. It seems like I think you hear Popovich, who is the, I have to make sure I'm not going too fast for guys. If you're listening on the podcast, I might geek out a couple times about the NBA. So just hang on and I'll try to slow down if I get ahead of myself.

But Greg Popovich, who's the coach of the San Antonio Spurs, talks a lot about how they brought over a lot of principles, I think from the Argentinian team down in South America from that, you know, was a part of. But then also, I think like more so than any other team, the Spurs are, I want to say like half their team is international or something like that. And they really kind of, one of the things that Popovich always talks about is that they're always looking for guys who are over themselves and that they buy into the team. And they're always making that extra pass, always doing, you know, one little extra thing.

It's not that the people aren't replaceable, but you can kind of plug and play people on a regular basis and not see a huge fall. Obviously, like there's a big, the NBA's built around stars, built around people, specific players who can elevate your team to the next level. But the Spurs are kind of the one team in the NBA that has kind of bucked that mentality. And they said, you know, we're going to have a bunch of people who are over themselves that are really good.

They buy in the team system and, you know, we can kind of plug and play them wherever we need to. And I think you're starting to see that. And it's interesting that you think, you're seeing the influence from, you know, the American side of things, you know, come over there because I think on some level, you're seeing kind of a European or at least an international influence on kind of how NBA basketballs played in some sense. I think that one thing that I had been experiencing with college during college, I'm our coach, Gary Turkop at Carroll College, used to have phone calls with type of coaches that was running the same system in the United States.

So they're kind of like, I would say educating about their conversing about their systems and solutions to some problems they face, that this is that in the United States. And I think within the globalisation, thanks to the internet, thanks to the game games being live all over the place and everything, I think that that possibility to expand your system, expand your knowledge is right now from one into the other side of the planet. So you don't have to, you don't have to look for too close and you can find something that you're looking for somewhere too far away from you. And I think everybody's affecting themselves with everybody in Europe, in the United States.

I know that we're taking examples as far as the place goes, as far as some kind of system goes, as far as the player talent goes. We're not only importing players from the United States because a lot of players come as you mentioned. We're also implementing ideas that works and could work in the NBA and could work in European situation, in European culture. Yeah, that's, it's funny how fast the ideas permeate across the globe and it doesn't really matter.

You know, what that idea is, if it works, it tends to be picked up on. And that's interesting. One of the things that I wanted to jump into was you mentioned when you were coming to the States or when you said you hadn't got into your full height at 17 or 18. And you weren't really happy with where you were as far strength wise and all that.

And you look to come to the States, you did four years in the States at the two different colleges. When did you have an idea that, when did you have an idea that you could play pro back in Turkey? Was it immediately, was it, hey, I'm going to go to the States and specifically spend the four years, get my degree and then come right back? Was it, hey, I'm just looking for a place to play for the next couple of years and I can do that in college and then it just showed up later?

What was that thinking? What was the mindset there? As you came to the States to play for a little bit, but in the back of your mind, were you just saying, like, you know, there's no chance that I'm, you know, there's, this is the only pathway that I'm doing. I'm playing pro ball and there's no other options.

What was your mindset? What was your goals? Or were you just saying, hey, I want to play for four years and then I'm going to go get an office job or something like that? Well, I did, even though I thought about the possibility of holding an office job because that's basically why I went to college because I need to get a degree to actually survive outside of basketball when needed.

I think the day I set foot in Salt Lake, the first night I was thinking about coming back and playing pro no matter what. One thing that other than the physical in capabilities, one thing that pushed me towards going to the United States was the ideas floating around under my name, throughout my name. As I mentioned, you know, my father being somewhat of a legend of Trix basketball, I was perceived more of Najati's son, my father's son, than my own entity. I kind of wanted to forget that myself so I could figure out what I am as far as basketball player goes.

And at the same time, when I came back, I actually helped everybody else forget also because when I came, okay, everybody was like, okay, there's Najati's son, Mulajjah's son, brother, but at the same time, I had a chance to create my character on the basketball court as soon as I arrived because I was an unknown player when I returned. So that helped me look at things without a lot of prejudice, I might say, and that helped me actually competing with my age players in college during those four years, helped me come back and compete with anybody that I wanted to at the professional level. So I think it created a mindset that's okay, I knew, I felt I always felt I was born to play basketball no matter what. Again, thanks to my father and the opportunities he showed me, my father and my mother showed me, but at the same time, as soon as I came back, I had the mindset ready to become the best player I could be.

And I aimed for NBA, of course, even though I was coming behind as far as professional life goes, coming behind, you said about 6-2 and una athletic, I was a 6-3 athletic player. I knew it was hard, but I was trying my best to get to the top level that I can play basketball as quick as possible. What was, so two things there, one, you see a lot of people come with that bag, I say baggage, it's a bad thing, your dad is a great player, that gave you exposure to the game early on, that's an awesome thing. You see a lot of players not do well with that type of pressure because there are eyes on you early on, you'll see some players, I think the, you know, an interesting contrast is Steph Curry, who everybody knows his dad was Del Curry's and NBA player, he grew up around the game, he did really well.

He's arguably one of the top three players in NBA right now, but some players do really well. Then you see people like Michael Jordan's kids never did anything, like they might have played really low level, maybe do one college ball for a couple years, but they didn't really build on that much. And so you see people take it a couple of different ways, and this thing that sometimes people think is okay, maybe that's just like, it gives him a leg up, he's got the genetics, he's got the connections, he's got all these other things, and some people aren't able to turn that into something that you would expect him to. And so I'm curious, was it just the moving away and kind of becoming your own person?

That helped with that? Were there any like mindset tricks where you basically had to, you know, kind of play Jedi mind tricks on yourself? Were there any other things involved in that situation where you said, okay, I need to go become my own person before I can come back here and everyone else can kind of see me as my own person as well? It wasn't a conscious decision for sure, because at the age of 18, knowing that all of the kids at the age of 18 are full of themselves, they can talk all they want.

Now I look at it, it's a different situation, but I didn't think that, but as soon as I returned and as I start growing as a professional player in Turkey, I realized the four years I spent in the United States and four years away from my family, my social life and everything, solely focused on basketball, helped me grow as a person a lot. It changed me, it changed my personal character more than I think it changed my basketball character. I think that's the main game that I earned going there. Okay, that's interesting.

So as you're coming back, so you spend the four years in school here in the States, out west, like Montana, it was Montana and it was Salt Lake, right? Salt Lake first two years, Montana next two years, yes. Okay, so that's like quite a bit different than Turkey already, but the, so you come back and you said, you know, you're kind of gunning for the NBA. What was your plan?

And I was assuming you're what, 21, 22 at that time? When I returned, I was 23. 23. And so, and this was in 2006.

So you're still gunning for the NBA. What was kind of your plan? Like how did you, you know, see about going about that and then how did you end up in the back in the Euro system? Like as soon as I see our season was over in Carroll College, I started to figure out how I can get myself to end the tryouts and how I can proceed on finding some kind of solution in the United States.

And I started talking with one basketball agent who I, who my meds during the National Championship. And we started doing some kind of like brainstorming on what to do. I knew my chances were low because one, we were not as successful as the previous. In my junior year, we finished in Final Four in National Championship.

In my senior year, we got eliminated in quarterfinals. So that kind of lowered my expectations in NBA level because from what I knew in draft draft prospects, if you want to get in from NAI, you have to basically dominate the league all the way through. And not being able to do that. I had my hopes, I didn't have my hopes high at the time.

And as soon as I realized that there were no options for me to stay, I returned and I signed with my brothers agents and who actually, who they founded their offices next our house at the beginning of their careers. They have in my brothers more than agents over the past 12 years and I have been blessed to have them beside me in the making my career. And we started talking about our options, what to do, how we can find a good career pathway or how we can find a good team. And when I returned to Turkey, I got into two tryouts, one with Galat-A-Saray at the beginning and one with Darsha Fakah, which the team that I ended up signing for.

And it was, for me, it was a better fit at the time because the opportunity was a lot more for me to show myself. I could steal a lot of playing time from players who are my age, younger players, some older players, but I had a very viable option to steal a decent amount of playing time at that team. And for me, I think one more important thing was with today's currency, I was basically making around $600 a month, 10 years ago. So I think that coming back and earning some kind of money that is not crazy amount of money created some kind of humbleness.

And at the same time, some kind of hunginess side by side because I knew that I needed to prove myself and I need to believe in myself. So I think that option was very good fit for me. And so I signed with Darsha Fakah and that started my path on what I would say the luckiest 10 years of my life as far as career goes because I got some opportunities that not many people have the chance to. In about two years, I was a national team player.

My fourth year back, I played in the World Championship, played against the greats of United States and the World Championship Finals and so on. And it has been for me, including my college years, I think that I end up making the right choices in my life as far as basketball goes. And it helped me, as I said before, it helped me more than basketball, it helped me as a person. So one of the things I want to touch on because I think this is actually really interesting is I don't know, are Sally records in the European system public?

I think so. I think players are signed to that idea of like, that's one thing everybody always says, I can't believe you gave me that contract or whatever. But can you give me an idea? So you said you signed at like 600 bucks a month, which it's like money and you're getting paid to play basketball, which is awesome.

But at the same point, it's not like a $50 million dollar year MBA contract or something like that. But there is a range, right? And I'm curious what that range is to what, I have a point I'm getting to, but I'm curious what the range is on some of those European contracts. So I know you can go to China and they'll pay like some random, Jimmer for that makes $5 million or something like that.

Or J.R. Smith makes $3 million for months or something like that. So I'm curious what the earning potential is in the Euro League and if it's as if it's just varying based on the player's star potential or if there's kind of a median salary range that a lot of people kind of fall into. I think that although there's no salary cap or some kind of system that MBA uses here in Europe, if we want to talk about Euro League, especially, I think that if you're not a, like, you could make between $250,000 and I think the most paid player right now is making around $4 million.

So there's a wide range, but at the same time that all depends on the team's location, the team's economic opportunities, the sponsors around them, etc. So I think that's the best thing to talk about this year is that we have a lot of teams in the same range. And I think the least in Euro League right now should be around $6 or $8 million. I'm not quite sure I haven't really checked on it too much, but I think that the least amount of team would be have the low parts, high parts of eight or nines or maybe around $10 or $11 million as a year in the budget.

And as a matter of fact, traditionally this varies a lot more, of course, and it's all depending on the league's sponsors and the individual sponsors that the team or the city can find. But for Euro League, I think that would answer your question. I know that not many players get up to what for that is making, but we do have quite the talent that comes up to that type of salary also. So, so the thing I wanted to point out was, you know, when you first took your first job and I've talked about this with kind of job opportunities in the past is like, I kind of how I started my career was I took a huge discount.

skills and opportunities to kind of showcase what I could do and then use those to kind of elevate my earning potential over time. And I think it's interesting that you kind of took the same approach in your basketball career was you took, you know, $600 a month. That's not a lot of money, but it's an opportunity. And you turn that into, you know, playing from, you know, I think it's fair to say, Fenerbosch is kind of the most well known team in Europe.

I mean, that's kind of like, you guys are the only ones that have beat an NBA team multiple times or something like that. So those are the stats that I've read about the NBA story. But if you look at it right now, we are at the top four teams or five teams that's been sustainable to come to the final four level in the past five or six years every time. I know that Fenerbosch made it to the final four last four years and won it the last year.

So I think that that shows a lot of character in the team in itself. And just the reputation, you said it was one of the older ones. Yes. And it's interesting to see that, you know, people tend to, people tend to get really overzealous when, you know, looking at, okay, you could have had an attitude coming back to Turkey or something saying, hey, you know, maybe so I'll shut up the NBA, maybe not.

But you know, I'm here, I'm just going to like, you know, try to, you know, try to, you know, even sacrifice, like you're like, oh, 600 bucks isn't a month, isn't that much. But maybe I get like a thousand or 1500 bucks. But then you'd, you'd end up sitting on the bench or you'd have an opportunity that wasn't as good for you to show the long term potential. And by having that humility to take a lower salary in exchange for the opportunity, you, you, know, exponentially grew, you know, your long term earning potential.

And not just about money, but like the teams you've been a part of and being captain of the national team and all these other things, like that doesn't happen unless you have the humility and, you know, willingness to bet on yourself. Exactly. And I think that's interesting. And I think, you know, the bets started with leaving home and going to Salt Lake because I remember like, this is one story that I enjoyed telling a lot because I remember getting on a plane with my father around the time when the World Championship in Indianapolis was happening.

So me, my father went to Salt Lake together. Next morning he watched our practice and then left for Indianapolis to watch the World Championship to be turned to Istanbul. And I end up staying with, from my perspective was a high school soap opera because I would see these people who I would watch on TV as athlete jocks. Now I look at it like that.

And I would try to get used to living with them for the next year or so. Around that time, one thing that I looked at as a concern was being homesick and I think basketball helped me overcome that fear of missing home, missing my friends and everything because I was focused solely on basketball and improve myself and trying to get better than the teammate next to me so I can earn some playing time. Very cool. As far as once you got back to Turkey and you took this, you know, took this initial contract and we decided earlier that I'm not even going to try to pronounce this.

The dollar is a shocker. How's the opportunity? So once you took that team, one, what was your game like at that point? Like what type of player were you, you know, early on verse now?

And then two, kind of what was your strategy for kind of working your way, you know, up the ranks or, you know, kind of over continually improving your opportunities that were available to you? I would start again from college and before actually because at the time when I was ready to go for college without YouTube or anything, I used to download a lot of Jason Williams videos, the top 10 for everything. So I, after imitating Jordan a lot on a hoop in my bedroom, I start imitating Jason Williams in real basketball and this included the hairdo. I couldn't do tattoos at the age of 15 or 16, but I could do everything that he was doing on the basketball court, at least I tried.

And as soon as I got to college and start playing in a team that had some kind of system, I realized turning the ball over while trying to make a fancy pass was not going to help me play on a team. Then I start figuring out what kind of physical attributes I have to earn those times. And over the year and a half, I end up being, you know, the best defenders on the team in Salt Lake, which got me my second opportunity at Carroll College, where I earned back to back defensive player of the years and et cetera, which helped me create an opportunity to, you know, make my player character in Turkey. As soon as I arrived to Turkey, I start showing, again, my physical abilities, my athletic abilities, and my energy on the defensive side of the things, which I might add, when I returned from college basketball back to European and church basketball, I needed to learn a lot of the basketball sense, which I didn't have much in the beginning.

But I had all the sense what I can put on the court as far as energy goes and that energy, most of the time I spent, you know, crushing the point guard or denying their best player from taking the ball or make sure that he's taking the best shot when I'm guarding him. So from the beginning, you know, I created myself a challenge of showing my physical abilities on the court as much as possible. From now, then on, you know, from Dada Shaka, I went to play for Beishikash again, where I played two and a half years before college. I played with one of the best coaches in Turkey, one of the best Turkish coaches in Europe, Agonataman for the first time, where again, I was solely picked on that team to show my energy, to show my athleticism, to show my defensive side of things.

And that was my role on the team mostly when I was on the game. I was guarding the best player of the opponent team, trying to slow them down or make them take a bad shot and et cetera, which then same coach moved to SSP sent now one of the left and picked me with him again, where I played five years in total with several different coaches. But again, throughout those years, I end up again being a role player, was not taking full responsibility because most of the time we would have some kind of European or American star in the scoring side or in the responsibility side or I was playing with, I played with a few best point cards of Turkish basketball history around the time in the same team, both in national team and both in the club teams. So in F.S., I think towards the end, I was moving towards more of some kind of responsible side, but mostly I was on the teams with the role of defensive mindset initially.

Then after the 50th, around 2012 or 13, I forgot the years now, I moved to Galatasaray, played there for four years, where my first year, I end up again with a similar role of defense energy and make sure that I have some kind of street on shooting. I wasn't the best shooter all the time, I'm not the best shooter right now also, but I made sure that I was making the shot when the time comes. So in Galatasaray, maybe first year and a half, I was more of a role player and then towards the end of the second year and on, I became more of a leader of the team with the age coming with the responsibilities, increasing and with the role and relationship that I had with the coach. So I ended up, after the second year, I ended up with the captain of the team and at that point, I was also one of the candidates for National Team Captain and I think that my National Team career is parallel to the team career that I have as far as the role goes.

I was mostly a role player with defensive mindset at first and then make sure that I use a lot of my energy on the court for defensive purposes and then towards the end of the years coming, I was taking more responsibility on the offensive side as well. I like the way that you talked about observing your own game and then editing it, for lack of a better word, as you progressed, you said, okay, I want to emulate Jason Williams, I worked on dribbling and passing all this other stuff, but then I quickly realized that that also brought up a lot of turnovers. So we got to take that out, we got to bring other things in, like defense energy and kind of actively, maybe editing is a good word for that, like editing your own game and saying, okay, what is going to be helpful here? What does the team need?

Okay, we have an American star over here now. Can I do to, if I'm not going to be getting the shots, what else can I do on the floor to make sure I have a spot? And I think that's probably my biggest issue with my younger self thinking about how I play basketball. I was like, you just didn't really think you had an idea of what you could do and then you didn't edit that.

It was relatively static from early on. I didn't think dynamically enough about, okay, what's changing on the floor now, what needs to be adjusted for? And I like that you brought that up because it's kind of a, I think about that a lot in entrepreneurial terms and to see you kind of taking that same kind of mindset and applying it to a basketball court is kind of interesting. Well, I think we're going to get into entrepreneurship pretty soon, but I might add I'm 34 right now and I'm still doing the same thing because now I did change another team.

I transferred to fan out about you from Galafasarayan. I think that the one of the main things with the change is the systems of the two coaches that I played with, I played with Akaman who had more of a set up situation where we all knew what was going on as far as the players where they're going to be and everything. And now I'm working with a brother reach, which is one of the best coaches in Europe. Again, one of the most decorated coaches for sure.

He won nine year leagues in 13 different final floors. And I think that his system and rules are a lot different than what Akaman used to play with. And now when I look at it, I need to change what type of player I am. I need to change what type of contribution that I'm going to make it to the team because I know that some of the talents that I have are some of the talents that I have does not apply to the system here, to the teammates here and to the requirements here.

So it is a shift that I think that with age, one thing that I might say is I cannot accept what I've done and copy it over and over again to do something else in the year comes ahead. I had to adapt to the system around me. I had to adapt to the people around me. I had to adapt to the situation or environment around me.

And I think that that's the one thing that would keep anybody alive and in the situation with entrepreneurship, definitely. I think that's one of the biggest gains anybody can get from this conversation if they're listening, is being not accepting and relying on what you have and making sure that you can adapt and improve on everything that you have been doing in the past. No, definitely. As far as when did you kind of have a realization that the NBA wasn't going to be in the cards?

Was that after the first couple of years or was that just, were you kind of holding out on it or what was the thought there? I have two time periods for that. One is the last lockout time, where I actually was planning to go to Summer League that summer and when the lockout happens, the summer league didn't happen. So I couldn't go.

And I think that was my real chance on introducing myself to NBA coaches and showing myself as a basketball player in the NBA level. And I thought about it a little bit this year when I was looking for transfer, but at the same time, it would be hard for me to make that shift as a player and earn that shift as a player in the NBA level at the age of 33. So I didn't put too much thought into it. So there were two times that I thought about it, I might say, towards the end.

Okay. How was the length of a Euro basketball career? So if you hit 34, I think that's what LeBron is right now. He's 34, right?

He's right around there. So LeBron is like a free-to-nature. He looks better now than he's ever been. But then you also have people, I think Wade is up there somewhere.

I don't know exactly where he is, but then he's starting to look like someone took a baseball bat to his knees. He's looking good off the bench. But with the NBA, you start to see players, you start to wind it down or sometimes it just disappear completely after 32. Sometimes if they have injuries, they just go away.

I feel like there's a little bit more longevity in the Euro basketball system just because of probably the games played and things of that sort. But how do you feel about, as you're getting into 34, you alluded to it, but you're not necessarily looking to wind down, but you're not going to have probably another 15 years left in the league either. What's your mindset as you shift to a different part of your career? I think a high-level basketball career, I think, can go up to 36, 37.

There would be some lucky players that would make it to 40. I'll show Navarro as an example. He's a Spanish player who actually celebrated his 20th year with Barcelona. And I think he's one of the three or four players that is still playing.

That's when Euro league started, basically, since Euro league started. So he's one of those few players who is Euro league legend, basically. I think that at the top level, you could play until 36, 37. But if I want to continue in lower levels without the high competition requirements, I think I could play up to 40.

One thing that's the main difference between European basketball and NBA basketball is the frequency of the games and the importance of the games. I think in NBA, everybody's now talking about how they can improve the look, the approach of people on the regular season games compared to the playoff games. And I think that's the one thing that's very different in Europe because... Let me put it this way.

I will open my calendar while it's doing that too. Today is the sixth. On Friday, we have a game in Barcelona, which is three and a half, four hours away from here, from here. Then on the 10th, which is a Sunday, we have a game in Istanbul.

Then next week, again, on the 14th, we have a game in Istanbul. And then next time, we play Sunday in Musa. Now, I know I can't compare most of the stuff that I'm saying in the NBA Temple as far as the game goes, but while the NBA is playing their games from November until March, April, if you're not making the playoffs, and then on until June, our season starts officially with club in October and goes until June. And this includes the 30 regular season games of EuroLeague with playoff games, and we were counting with the coaches and the staff of the team beginning of the season.

We would, without adding extra games in this run, if we make it the final four, and if we make it the final game and had a chance to win the EuroLeague Championship, we would play 72 official games total with Turkish League and playoffs included. And for us, every game counts. There's no off games. If you go to some road game with, let's say, 10th of our budget in the league, we cannot take a day off on the mindset, because if we show up soft, they're going to kick our asses and it's going to cause a lot of things coming along the way.

And it is a different mindset compared to the NBA. I think this mindset is the biggest difference, because when we go out on the court, every game counts. And the one thing that's a lot of different is how you said, you know, there are a lot of players from America and from Europe that are coming into Turkey, because Turkey is as far as financial look goes in Europe, it is one of the best countries to play for European and American players. And a lot of players come here, use the exposure to go to better teams in EuroLeague or come back to the NBA.

And a lot of players who play in smaller teams in Turkey, they're only waiting to play against the EuroLeague's best team. And I watch it because that's the best exposure that they're going to get throughout the season. And they're waiting for that game and they come out strong. I can tell you that much, you know, it is a different mindset and you have to be ready, mentally, physically, every single game that you replay.

There's a physicality to European basketball. I think that maybe kind of the NBA has phased out over the past 20 years. And if you look at the early 90s, there's a lot of producing and a lot of people throwing elbows in. And some really, like, people really get into it.

I feel like with the more and more rules that the NBA has kind of implemented in the last 10 years where, you know, hand checking, it's kind of really brought out this like, you know, just the spacing and the three-point kind of revolution, if you will. Would you say that's accurate? Would you say there is a little bit more? I don't, you play against Americans, you know, both in college and then, you know, in your international play.

Would you say that accurate or am I off on that? I would say it is accurate, but at the same time, I don't want to like say that there's no physicality in the NBA. NBA has a lot of rules that prevents their players to get unnecessary impact. And okay, health and injuries, of course, as important in your league as it is in the NBA, but at the same time, most of the rules do not apply to us in Europe.

I think one of the things is the spacing and the three-seconds rule both in offense and defense. And I think that we took advantage of a lot of stuff that's not shown in the NBA because of the rules and use it as physicality. And I think that, yes, there are more bumps and bruises now in your league, but I know that when the time comes and the dream team basically assembles, they're ready for that meeting. They don't look at us and think the NBA rules are going to play out.

They come and they come and they start playing ready. And I think that shows the character that they have and that shows that the physical readiness that they have with the opportunities that they have in the United States. Okay. So I've got a few short, quick-hitter questions for you.

And then I want to talk to you about entrepreneurship after that, and then we can kind of wind it down after that. But I'm going to have some hot takes for you that you can either answer or not answer, and you can tell me what you think about them, okay? Okay. I'm curious about who do you think an NBA player that you would match up with well?

If you could pick any player in the NBA that you think you'd match up with well, who would it be? That is a tough one. And as I mentioned, I'm a 6-3, 1.5, I'm a point guard, slash shooting guard, with not much to shoot with. And so I have to check now, with the current line-ups, I can't think of any names because I know most of them will blow by me.

I wouldn't really survive on the offensive end also. But... Like TJ McConnell on the Sixers or Delta Nova or someone else who's... Yeah, they're cool too.

They're all like... When I look at it, they're like, it's 20s, 22s. Even now, when I look at my teammates or people around me, being that age, I would give a lot of thought and money on returning to those ages and make sure that I would feel no pain when I'm jumping, or there's no pain and repercussions on landings and everything. So, now when I think about it, with the NBA level, I would need a lot of conditioning and physical practice to cope up with anybody on that level.

But I can tell you this much, no matter what happens, we get on the court and we try to put our best to beat one another. So I would take on anybody. I wouldn't be scared, but I know that it would be hard to survive, to chase, let's say, CJ McCollum, Seth Curry, any of those guys, when I start chasing them, I know that I would be out of breath in the fourth or fifth run side by side. I think the Kings might have someone.

I don't know who's... I'm going to the point guard list and NBA point guard is... NBA is pretty point guard heavy right now, so that might be tough. But I think the Kings, like, perennially have someone on their team that's like...

They're all... They need help. You mentioned... Actually, the Bulls need a point guard right now, so if you want to move on, help them.

As you mentioned, the Kings, you know, Bogdanovic, is... Yes. ...to be the best player, one of the best players on the team that I'm playing for now. And it was not fun chasing him because he is what?

He's right now 25, 26, I think, and he ended up having a great confidence. And I'm going to say, it was a bitch to chase him around and try to beat him on a basketball game. And it was a fun competition. It's fun to actually, like, no matter as I mentioned, the physicalities and this pain and this and that at the age of 34, it's always fun to realize no matter what happens, the mindset is ready to compete against whatever I end up coming up against, basically.

You know, the... Well, actually, speaking about the Kings and guards, Vince Carter is 40. And he's on the Kings. He's still fast.

He's still dunking, but I mean, I don't know. He's... In fact, he's 40 and the NBA is really impressive. You know, what you mentioned about like how I was approaching the game, I think that Vince Carter is a great example because he made enough highlights more than anybody, I think, up to close to the level of Dominique Wilkins in dunking.

But moving towards the end of the career, he's at the age of 40 right now. He showed up aside where he can shoot the ball and create a lot of advantage with using his physicality and smart way on defense and on other sides. I think that's a good example of improving yourself with the needed adjustments in the game of basketball. He's been really interesting to watch because he's got that old man basketball game down, where like he doesn't necessarily...

He can still dunk on you, but he's not necessarily beating you off the dribble. He's not going to necessarily blow you, but he'll do these little tricky things either like ball fakes or just like positioning himself in different places to make the right play. That's one of those things. You always see these guys do these highlight reels and then they blow their...

Derek Rose is a good example of someone who was super athletic and then as his knees completely fall apart, not his fault, but he was super athletic and then as his athleticism went away, he's had a hard time readjusting his game to get back to being something that's super useful on the floor without being his 100% healthy self. So, seeing Vince Carter being able to do that with the age and losing some of the athleticism he used to have is really cool to see. He's continually edit his character and changes type of game on the court. What team do you think your current...

I'm not going to say what team you guys think you could be because I don't want to start out like an international incident and make people fly across the world for next year's preseason, but what team in the NBA would you guys like to match up with just like a one-off exhibition game with one random team in the NBA? And you guys think you could put up a good fight? No matter what, I think we would put up a good fight in any team in the NBA. I know that it would depend on the rules and the length of the game.

If we play in NBA rules, of course, it's going to be harder to survive in the game, but I would want to match up against this first. With Genobly being a lefty, I have been following them a lot more than any other team in the NBA and knowing Popovich and the type of basketball that they're playing, I want to feel how that feels even though I'm on the opponent's side and not going to enjoy all those passing that's whizzing by my ear on any side, but I want to play against the Spurs. Death by a thousand passes. Let's see, what else we have.

Is there, if I had $10,000 and I told you I'd give you $10,000 if you have to beat one NBA player, this is sort of like the match up one, but a little bit different. What NBA player are you confident you could beat? I wouldn't know all of the NBA players, but if I want to bet and try to win a one-on-one game, I want to play against Steph. I would want to play against Steph, pointy Parker.

I'm not going to mention CJ because I played against with his brothers two years in a row, so I liked his game, but at the same time, I know that it would be also tough to play against him. But yes, I would say, again, I would lead to the list, you know, lead to the Parker and Steph Curry. I'm not mentioning it. You wouldn't promise that you beat them.

I don't follow that much enough, NBA, to mention a name that I could beat. OK, campaign on the Bulls is currently I think in a boot. The Bulls are bad. They're really bad.

They're one like three games all year, I think. So I think, those are my quick hits. I want to talk a little bit about entrepreneurship because we've gone back and forth a little bit about this in the past, and you kind of alluded to it with both, you know, as you're getting to the back end of the career, but also just kind of that mindset that you've taken and you've built yourself, you know, basketball is, you know, for better or worse, an entrepreneurial type game where you're, you know, you can think of it like you're an independent contractor and you're selling your services on a yearly basis to each specific team and then you're trying to, you know, figure out what that team needs and provide them that in the best way possible. Yeah.

How have you kind of come around to entrepreneurship both on your own? Like, is that just kind of a natural outgrowth of where your mindset's at? Are there actual projects you're working on? Where's your head at with that right now?

It started with like some kind of curiosity that I had from the beginning of childhood with basketball. And at the same time, with the college degree that I got, I studied business and administration at Carroll College, I think that helped. That was kind of like in the back of my head that I could do something with it when the basketball is over as far as professional career goes. And at the time, I didn't know what, but over the years, I started finding opportunities on what to do.

And in 2011, me, my brother and my father formed a company called Poular Negassi. And we basically, it's a sports organization company where we share our experience, our knowledge of basketball with kids in summer camps. And now we start to share it in other aspects of life, in corporate life with some kind of workshops and educational programs for corporate employees. And at the same time for high school students who are athletes at the same time, who need some kind of guidance to continue both their school life and be successful in sports as well.

And that was our first entrepreneurial experience. We've been doing that since 2011, as I said. And then we ran seven summer camps in Turkey. And we've been blessed with great partners in the run to make sure that we're doing the best possible basketball camp in Turkey.

Now at the beginning of our conversation, I kind of mentioned that I've been to some basketball camps in the United States. And one of them, two of them were Michael Jordan's camps, one in Emerson, Illinois, I think outside of Chicago. And the one was in Santa Barbara. And I think going to those camps and seeing Michael Jordan face to face, being on the same port, trying to shoot free throws when he's passing you the ball, those type of experiences stick with you from childhood.

And I think that I wanted to recreate some type of influence like that. I know that I'm not at the level of Michael Jordan in any way possible. But not only as a basketball player, he was an example to me, I think from the business side and how he looked at things. I took a lot of things from him as an example also.

So I tried to recreate the basketball camp that I've been to in Turkey. And while doing that, we also find some open opportunities in social enterprises. Because from the first years, we met with some kids from other cities of Turkey who are less fortunate in opportunities, who are less fortunate in finding places to play basketball. And we create a system where so far, I would say we have around 700 kids who came to our basketball camps, half of them, more than half of them came from 20 to 25 different cities of Turkey without paying any kind of fee on transfers, transportation, and coming to the camp and being part of the camp.

So I think that we create a good balance between kids with somewhat of a scholarship and at the same time, kids who are coming to pay their way in to these camps. And that created an opportunity for us to embrace the fact that a kid from Istanbul and a kid from Hakhjadi, which is on the most south eastern side of Turkey right on the border of Syria and Iraq. I think finding that energy of 14 year old, 15 year old kids being a basketball player on the court and knowing that basketball does not need any kind of translation to play, that is the effect that gives us pride to do more and more stuff over the years. And I think that it is a great gem for me to think about, to cherish and to improve over the years, even when the basketball career is over.

That is all, I did not know about the foundation of the scholarship aspect of the camps and that is pretty cool. As far as the actual camps, are they week long camps? Are they longer than that? Are they short than that?

Are they weekend camps? I would assume from the camps I have been doing, they are one week, but I do not know. That was our experience in the past, so we try to do that as much as possible. We start on a Sunday and end on a Friday, so make sure the parents have a chance to leave the kids and pick up the kids at the same time.

It is great. It is packed with basketball fundamentals. We try to find the best coaches that are available in the system in Turkey. And we are blessed that two of our head coaches of the camp right now has been with us from the beginning.

And I think that that is a great energy that we created. And I think while we are mentioning a lot that this is a family business with the experience that we are sharing from my father, from my brother and from myself, I think that we had a chance to increase the dimensions of the legacy with the coaches that are joining the program and with the volunteers that are joining the program, with the kids who are coming to the camp from different cities and different backgrounds. I think that is the legacy that we are trying to share is the idea of the best fundamentals of basketball, being a good person on and off the court and make sure that everybody is having fun and go home happy and satisfied. I think there is something about meeting these people that you think are like gods.

Meeting Michael Jordan and realizing he is a person. That sounds kind of maybe obvious. But there creates a, what is the word I am looking for? It creates a little bit of hope, but it also creates the, it breaks the facade that these are like special people.

Like Michael Jordan obviously is like a very, very good basketball player. He was born, he got certain physical characteristics that let him do the things that he was able to do. But he is also just another person. And I think that is one of the things that I found when I have met some of the people that I have looked up to in entrepreneurship and business and online work that I think is really, really helpful for you, like showing to students and athletes wherever that, okay, first of all, it is about more than just basketball, but second of all, we have got this family history and we have got these things that we have done.

But I also, you can share your story and you can say, I came back to Turkey and I was only making this amount of money per month. But I did it to take the opportunity and to invest in myself and bet on myself and continually make those, continually make those bets and eventually get to where you are. Yeah. And I think that is really, really important to show people that that is possible.

And on the other hand, okay, we are doing a lot of partnership with the university that we are holding the basketball camps and with other brands and companies that are helping us along the way. But at the same time, the experience and the plans that we are sharing with all of these kids and coaches and everybody that is a part of this, I must say that until it becomes a sustainable business, I am financing most of the situation. And I think that more than with sharing the experience, I think that investing in something like this and investing to a future where maybe one or more players come out of this program is also one of the hopes that I have. And that is one of the things that I am looking up to and I am excited about when my career is over professionally.

That is cool. I like that a lot. One of the things that you are seeing NBA players start to do and they have, you know, it is a different environment in the US but you are starting to see some of these guys take like their huge followings that they have on social media and personally. Beyond just endorsements, beyond just back in the day Michael Jordan or Grant Hill would get in a sprite commercial or something like that, you are starting to see a lot more athletes either take equity positions in companies or start owning companies outright.

I know we have talked in the past about different VC opportunities and things like that. I was curious and I don't know if we even mentioned that this would be part of discussion but I am curious, are there opportunities like that in Turkey? Is that something that you are looking at as well beyond just the basketball camps? As all the things that you are doing is growing and it becomes more accessible to be a part of companies rather than just being a spokesperson for it?

It has no cost. Well, I am always looking for options and opportunities where to take good legacy in the future. But at the same time with basketball being my first priority to play, I am waiting for my options for the end of my career on where to bring it as far as the company goes. And I know that in Turkey, if I want to grow or if I want to increase my exposure as far as basketball camps or other stuff goes, I need to work with a lot of different companies and I need to maybe have some kind of relationship with foundations and federations of basketball in Turkey.

And I am looking into it, my options, I am planning along the way but at the same time I am taking my time so I don't take my priorities and I don't take my eyes away from what my priorities are at this point. On the other side, since 2011 and 2012, I have been actively part of being an angel investor in Turkey. And since I think our talk a year and a half, two years ago, I think a total right now I have 12 investments that I am a part of financially and as a mentorship. And I have put myself in a position in Turkey and Turkish startup ecosystem in a place where I am looking for opportunities to make sure the ecosystem itself grows and make sure that Turkey creates a lot of stories where nice exits happen.

Now I at the same time know directly from basketball without failures, there is not much success happens so I am also hoping to see a lot of failures along the way too so a lot of people can learn from it. And that is the position that I am in right now and as you said before, a lot of NBA players trying to divers their portfolio, divers their financial gains, they are looking into angel investing and they are looking to the things, the value that they can add to some of these ecosystem players because when you look into the top players in the NBA including Kobe Bryant who is a great speaker in the cartoons and in the productions that he is doing, he is working in a lot of production about sports. You are looking into LeBron James being vocal in Nike and its decisions and a lot of other stuff that he is doing in the startup ecosystem. And I know also Steph Kerry with Under Armour, he is vocal and at the same time he is looking into the investments in the startup business.

So I think that is a good example and I think for a lot of athletes in Turkey to look into it, we need a lot of exit stories that happen because without them not many people will join from the investment opportunities side of things. And I am hoping that I am one of those guys who is paving the way for more people to come. That is a, I think you have aptly named your company then, Guller. So you are building something here and it is cool to see kind of the start of it.

I think those are all the questions I have got for you. Anything you wish I would have asked you? You can ask me when was going to run an ultra marathon. Yeah, that is a good question.

When are we going to run an ultra marathon? No, let's wait before you. No, one thing I might add, I have been following with as I said in the beginning, some ups and downs you had in your business side but at the same time I think what you have been doing with the ultra marathon is that you are running and all the schools that you have been building all over the world. I think that is a great cause for you to want me to love to meet a lot of new people along the way.

One of them is myself and I am glad to meet you even though we haven't met personally. I am hoping to have you as a guest in Turkey sometime soon. And two, I think that you are doing something good for your body even though I think running an entire guy is not good for your body in no way possible. I saw the video and I was just like he should be regretting his decisions at this point.

But no, I think you should be proud of yourself for what you have been doing and keep up the good work. And hoping that there is an Iron Man event here in Turkey. I don't know if you are interested in Iron Man but I know that there should be some ultra marathon and some kind of similar stuff in Turkey. He will look into it and have you as a guest that where one, we can hang out and go to basketball games.

You can come to my game if possible and have a chance for you to see Istanbul one of the best cities in the world. And two, maybe you are running an ultra marathon for a similar cause that we can create in Turkey. All right. I like the challenge.

Let's talk about it. Iron Man is still undone on my impossible list. So I need to do that at one point or another. So this is awesome man.

Thank you for jumping on the call. Do you mind telling people where they can find out more about you if they want to follow you on Twitter or Facebook or Twitter? On Twitter, on all social media, it's my name and last name, Sinan Grulars, S-I-N-A-N-G-U-L-E-R. I think if you add a 32 to that, that's my YouTube channel.

Most of the stuff that I'm doing right now mainly are in Turkish as you end up seeing most of it. But at the same time, I tend to share once in a while some English content on it also. Those are the places that you can find me and you can find a lot of the content that I put out. I'm on the construction part of rebuilding sinangrulars.com with the content being both in English and in Turkish so that I can share a lot of stuff for possible viewers on the other side of the world.

And that's it. Cool man. And then Guler Legacy. And Guler Legacy.com is the website and at the same time, I think all of the social media names are Guler Legacy also.

Alright, I'll put those in the show notes so everybody can easily get to those. Awesome. So we'll talk more about a potential something in Turkey. And thank you for finally doing this.

I know we've been trying for months now to do this and it's finally good to see. Hey, you and I both showed that anything is possible. So I'm very happy to have this conversation with you. Thank you for making me part of the, you know, your impossible team.

And thanks for having me. Awesome. Let's do it again. Alright.

Alright, there we go. Episode number two in the books. If you guys are liking the podcast, I know I said every episode, but it helps us out a ton if you leave a review. Head on over to iTunes or Google Play, leave a review and tell everybody what you think about the podcast.

It's the number one way more people find out about us. And it's also how we can reach more people and help them change their mindset in order to push their limits and do something impossible. If you guys want to support the show, you can do it in a couple of different ways. Cold Shower Therapy.

You can download the app, do five minutes, cold showers, 30 days, see if it changes your mindset. I guarantee it will change your mindset and change your life. You can download the app and you can join thousands of other people that are doing the cold shower therapy challenge. You can try to beat the streak, but at this point, it's over 1200.

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Go check it out. Also, move a lap. If you're an athlete, you're trying to get stronger, you're trying to recover from injury, or you're just an office worker who's trying to hurt less throughout the day because you're sitting down all the time, check out movewellapp.com. It's got a bunch of routines that are all under 15 minutes that you can do in your living room to help you feel better, get stronger, have less pain.

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I hope you enjoyed the show. Until next time, keep pushing your limits. Do something impossible. And of course, boom.