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All right now we've got a little bit carried away here. We started having a good conversation here without even pressing record. Chris, but James, do you want to play a game? Do you want to play a game?
Game James? We'll sign with you. The choice stores. Can we play with you though?
We're playing hockey? We're going to play a little hopscotch. We're going to play a little bit of armchair reviews episode 20. Four squared?
Oh. So 20 guys, we're talking at Jigsaw here. The last episode of October's spooky spook fest. Spooky spook fest.
That's until the next quarter when it comes out when we go to the theater. But yeah, for October, I mean this is the last one and we were we end on a note. We end on a note. It could not have said that better myself.
Yeah, it wasn't a bang. It wasn't even a fizzle. It was just a kind of flat note. It was like a flat note.
That's right. I wouldn't say it was like a flop. No, well, technically it's on a flop. Nope.
We'll get to that. So we're talking Jigsaw. Jigsaw, yes. There's Saw 8, essentially.
The new last one of the series. Saw 7, first of all, was called Saw 3D. Which kind of, you know, throw people for a loop when you're talking about these numbers here. Yeah, because they got tradition.
They got some numbers. And that was at the height of movies coming down 3D. They wanted to capitalize on flying body parts. That kind of dad pretty quick.
Like, granted there's still, I'm actually still a huge thing. It's a good thing. But I mean, 3D was like in your face for so long and then people. I really like it.
All star with fucking Avatar and James Cameron, son of a bitch, son of a bitch. I was actually one of my first Blu-rays. I blocked. I was the first Blu-ray.
I blocked one of the first with Avatar. I also was one of my first Blu-rays. I looked good. I invested in it.
But I'm not crazy about it. No, no, no. Okay, we'll get to my song. It's the story's fine.
It's long as fuck, but it looks beautiful. Then that's why it's like it was one of the key sellers for Blu-ray, right? It's like, look what do you could do? A new smurf smoothie.
Oh, this murder set. Anyhow, it was the bag of cargo mister. It's the world. Jigsaw, number eight.
Okay. Jigsaw eight. So we were just talking about before we hit record. We were having a discussion about what it was making in all these movies.
Yeah, so we might as well start off with the budget for this movie. Yeah, right. So it was it's very similar to the other movies. It's really low.
It's 10 mil. A cool 10 mil. A chill 10 mil. Yeah, it was and that's actually concurrent for for all those movies about 10 mil, 11 mil.
I think the most expensive movie was 17. 17 million. I'm not sure which one. We'll try to pull it up.
But yeah, anyhow, they've in a week's time, less than a week now, I guess. It's been a week, it's a week today that we're recording, but it's been out. I think so. Yeah.
So in a week's time, we're wide. They've done a little bit over $33 million. So they've obviously made the money back triple it in 16 and a week 16 mil was just in the United States and Canada. Here's the fact that 17 million was the most expensive for Go-Figures saw 3D.
So that was the last movie I haven't been to because we're trying to convert everything into a 3D format. Am I reading it the first one was only $1 million budget? Yeah. What the hell?
That makes sense. That's the most looking location. It's more than just setting the bathroom. Yeah, one building they use essentially.
And they had Robin head and then tights as one of the leads. This is shareholders. Yeah. So yeah, pretty impressive.
I was kind of a little bit shocked to see that they were all that low in budget, I guess you could say. Like it's not a big budget. No, for Hollywood productions and for how much they got back was insane and for a franchise it's been so successful. Yeah.
Insanely low budgets. You see like you think movies that gross as much as these do when you get to in a second, they usually pump out a movie or two with low budgets and then they're like, fuck it. It just costs it the dollar bills at the movie to try to make something insane happen. You're talking about Pirates of Caribbean, right?
Is that what you're talking about? That just goes to a fucking jolly devil opens up his pocket. They're like, oh. I'll go say something else, but I'll leave it as a new one.
We've beat that Dead Horse numerous times. Yeah. So what for all eight movies in the series, the total budget was I think it was a 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74, 74. So let's say 80 million just to be safe, safe, very safe.
And including this one so far, they've grossed, they've grown $900 million. In 2010, that's insane. I think there was something that said Guinness World Records. Remember those books looking at it in your case?
So shiny. All school libraries. Of course. They're just studies libraries.
It's studying. Go for records. Yeah. Rich, believe it or not.
Those books. Yeah. So they named, saw the most successful franchise and when you look at it. Or franchise.
Or franchise. No, I'm going to do it. No. No.
Yes. The best horror, which I can see now because when you have, when you make these movies, they're still a little on the yet so much out of it. Just in the box office, over 900 million. That's insane.
That's almost a billion dollars watching people get cut up in Genius in a ways. And I say in Genius, non-including this Jigsaw movie. Yeah, it is. It is crazy.
It's insane to think about. It's madness. So I mean, props to the people that came up with this, props to everyone that's evolved. Props to fucking James and James on and Lee went out.
Those guys started it all off. And Lee went out and was actually, he was in the first time. He was Adam who's in the room with the guy. Yeah.
So Crazy Cool. That's just a fun little tidbit to start off for the series. We'll jump all over the place with a lot of these other movies. I wouldn't have been over.
Everything is tied together. Yeah, supposedly. So allegedly, I load that. Yeah.
So I said supposedly, it fucking hit people and say supposedly. Supposedly. Yeah, that's it. I do that a lot.
I say wrong things all the time. Usually politically incorrect. You know, I don't necessarily say the wrong thing. I just say the incorrect thing.
You don't know that because I edit everything. You know, maybe we'll see another episode and... It should be more candid, Chris. Yeah.
We'll get lost. It'll be awesome. All our listeners be like, I don't like that. I don't like that.
They can't sue us. No, yes. We can't. Well, actually, you know what?
You're right because we don't have shit to be sued. We should post at the start in our little intro clamp. Yeah. No social justice warriors.
Allowed. No SJWs. No politically correct people. Get the fuck out.
Have an open mind. The gym smells like... Alright. Inside you.
Everyone's got a chance. Let's get into the plot a little bit. Should we get into the plot? I mean, what plot is what you said?
What your ass of plot is? Yeah. It's so... Yeah.
What's the storyline in that movie? There was a storyline? It's storyline. I was just watching people get fucking...
Dad up. Yeah. Jigs. Yeah.
Alright. Well, let's sort of throw this out. This is really good. Week 20.
We had a couple of bi-weeks too. It's probably like week 22, 23-ish. I'd say more than that because there was a little bit of a gap between... Yeah, we probably do have a while though.
Since June. Well, no, me. Since May. Since May.
Since May. Since May. May. May.
Alright. So... So 20, that's pretty cool. It's pretty cool.
Alright, so let's get into the plot here. I'll try to briefly summarize this because I don't want to bore you. No point getting too deep into it. We'll talk about all the crazy deaths and stuff after that.
But pretty much the Jigsaw Killer is back. You hear Tobin Bell who plays the Jigsaw Killer in the earlier movies. You hear his voice. The detectives are on the case.
There's a new game that started and it pretty much opens. It doesn't open with a Jigsaw trap. Like all the other ones do. It's a chase scene and the sky's like, Oh, don't do anything.
I have a trigger that's going to start a game. And that pretty much starts... It cuts to a new game with five players and... You're trying to...
You get a victim and the brains of the forensic pathologist are new characters. What's his name? Logan. Logan and Eleanor.
Eleanor. Eleanor. Eleanor. That's right.
And your detectives who, you know, they have a relationship. One of them has a relationship with the pathologist. With Logan. Yeah, with Logan.
They served together. And then you have Diet Coke, Michael Keaton, Hollerin. He tries so hard to give it. He's like Michael Keaton.
Yeah, he tried... Even the way he's down with it's like Michael Keaton in Freshman. Yeah. And some of his mannerisms.
Yeah, I was just going to say his mannerisms. He's trying to be like... And we just saw Michael Keaton in American Satsal Anyway, he's like the hard-boiled detective who's kind of a piece of shit. But he's trying to catch his jigsaw.
He finds the game all over again and it cuts between the detectives doing their work. It's been ten years since he died. He's supposed to be dead. He died.
So... But with these new bodies that they're discovering, you're led to believe that there's these clues. Like there's blood under the fingernails that it turns out to be jigsaw. And there was something else, the voice recorder.
They did some forensic bullshit and matched it to his voice. And they're like, it's not just a fucking... Someone created a bomb computer type thing. So there's like...
It is. It is. Spoiler alert. However.
Yeah. Yeah. So they're really trying to like ram it down your throat. Oh, jigsaw is back.
He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's dead. He's gone. He died.
He died ten years ago. So fall for it. Yeah, you tell him. Yeah, so that's pretty much the gist of it.
Now let's get into some spoiler territory here. James, what do you think of the traps here? Trap game? Trap host the trap.
The trap. We're gonna do the... Who moves? Yeah, we're tapping right now.
What are the moves? There were no moves. The traps, the game. It's...
You know what I mean? So, part of the storyline is it turns out that this game that they're playing now originally happened ten years... Well, more than ten years ago. Jigsaw's the very first first game.
And none of these victims were found from his original game. And so they're Logan. Yeah, Logan. Yeah, he's replaying the original game.
So none of them are bodies that are piling up in the lab or actually the recreation bodies. They're not the actual bodies from the original game, obviously, because it's been over ten years. But it makes you think that. It makes you think that.
That's part of them trying to trick you into believing that Jigsaw's still alive. Yeah. So to answer your question, because it's... This is my rationale.
Because he's playing the very first game over again. They're not as creative. God, sure. As they are in actual one through seven movies.
You know what I mean? That makes a lot of sense. I think you're giving it too much credit. See, that's why I'm saying my rationale, because I'm trying to give it a little bit of credit.
Yeah, I know. However, the third death was awesome. The human blender? The human blender.
Mainly, not just because I like the human blender, but because of the way that he's hooked up to the motorcycle that he sold to Jigsaw's cousin. Well, that's the thing. Or something. Yeah, it was an FB.
That's the thing about Jigsaw, right? He tries to include these traps that have some correlation to the crime or how they fucked up. The shooting hits whatever they did. All these people stuck in these traps are shitty.
Like, do you remember in Saw 2, one of the most memorable scenes when the heroin addict piece of shit, Jack Guy, he's supposed to get into this pit of needles. That's the syringes. And he just tosses Amanda, the survivor from the first one who's in this game again. Just picks her up, like maybe he's into the nose.
Like, like that. It's like, oh shit. That's the cringiest. One of the cringiest.
It's cringiest for everyone, but I can only imagine people that are, like, variety of needles. Oh my god. Even just to watch it? Yeah.
No thanks. And it's not like it's going to cause death unless, you know, the if. But it's going to hella hurt. Yo, it could cause death for sure.
Oh my god. Pit of needles. Just get chucked into it. I have to think, like a needle, let's say, for argument's sake, there are like two and a half, three inches long of these needles.
OK. There's hundreds of them. OK. All right.
You die. I guess it's the right spot. Or if you get stabbed at 100 by 10, this is a pin cushion. You're fine.
Let's take it off. You might walk it off. You might just die from initial shock, like going to shock, and then you kind of have a panic attack and then it attacks will get you. All right, attack, attack.
You know, the clean braille. You'll just go on injured reserve for the season. Be back in no time. You just snap your leg in the end zone.
You're going to catch a ball. Oh, god damn. Poor guy. He has a piece, Zach Miller's knee.
Jesus Christ. He almost died. But he's not. No, no, his knee is gone.
He's gone. He's gone. He's dying. He's doing better now.
But yeah. So they definitely lacked that creative edge that they've had for a majority of the movies, I would say. Yeah. You know, there is that initial, like, so the first two traps, I want to say, yes, you have the panic inducing it.
Especially when it's a group trap. It's not focused on one person. So you have people influencing other people, especially in the second trap. We'll talk about it in a second here.
But you know, it lets them work together, but also lets them feed off each other's fears. So in the first one, if you're paying attention to it, it says like, oh, just a voluntary piece, a little bit of blood offering. Yeah, blood offering. Sorry.
So just look at a little on the saw. There's a bunch of saws essentially. So pulling it close. It's either you get pulled into the saw or you just have to cut yourself.
Toss a little, look, get a little nick. Obviously it's going to suck, but you'll, it doesn't specify how much blood you need. No. And obviously, first one, my other question is, how does it know when to turn off?
Like, I don't think, I don't know. James, if there's a. He's always watching. A blade that actually detects blood.
No, I think he's just always watching. No, I know. Speak to C-Shis. Jakes out.
The C-Shis. Well, that's the thing. I hope he's watching. But again, this is okay.
So it's buzzing. Yeah. Oh, shit. Goddamn, it works so badly.
I don't even know. I'll find it. I'll find it. I'll find it.
It's fucking dead. So take it. It's just, you know, a little bit of the game. A little bit of blood.
Cool. You're done. Boom. Yeah.
It's Carly, like, street thief. You know, she caused the death of Astimatic. A little thug. And you know, that led to the death of this woman.
And because she had a puffer, she didn't take it. And she took $3.53 something like that, right? That's how much life is worth. And it shows on the syringes.
One is a saline solution. One is like an acidic something. And the other is. I'm cured to what I was.
I'm cured to the poison that she's been infected with. Just her, though. So this is kind of her game. And obviously, you see the numbers on the back of syringes.
And she's like, oh, that's how much I stole. That should be your sign. Oh, okay, well, I'll just take this one. Yeah.
And so I'll be like, OK, cool. Thing off. OK, everyone's live saves. But she's freaking out.
She's freaking out because she doesn't want to just suck it up. And obviously, she hasn't seen this before. And there is no existence of jigsaw, which you have to put together at the end. So again, you have deuce phase, which Ryan.
Ryan. He's the one that's freaking her out and stuff. And then that's a piss me out because it takes them to be getting hung. And she's still not doing anything.
She's just dumb. And then that's what actually ends up killing her. He freaks the fuck out and just jabs all three of them. All three needles in her.
So she ends up getting cured with a saline solution. And she gets fucking. She gets more. She gives acid melting her face and goes to her.
So yeah, she gets messed up really. She dies pretty instantly. Pretty gruesome. That's what you see it.
But again, something that could be solid and just like, oh, that definitely, that was my fuck out. That was going on. I can survive this. And we could all do four again.
And again, that's where my problem is, how much force does this guy have? And I mentioned this to you when we left the theater yesterday. There are such specific parts to this where if how did he guess every step of the way to let these specific people come across it? How do you know that Mitch was even going to survive until the human blender?
How do you know Ryan was the one that went to the no exit? Yeah. And they needed to go there to be able to pull the lever to save the people in the grain thing. Yeah, but I don't think in Ryan's situation, when he falls for that trap or whatever, I don't think that record is right.
I think it just is. No, but then the TV screens go on and so like that. And then someone needed to fall on that trap to be able to pull the lever in the first place. So if no one fell on that trap and got their leg diced up, then the people in the pit would be done.
And then he'd have no final game. Yeah. But I think no one's going to go into the pit, because the pit wasn't open right? It was closed until he fell in and he was going to fuck up.
Yeah, yeah. So would there be another game somewhere in there? Because they were locked in. I think the next step was just to go through the doors, where everybody gets fucking marked.
But that was locked though. That was where Mitch ate. After, yeah. I realized.
So I think probably someone has to try the no exit. The thought process is, yeah, just keep them locked in here until someone's sick and tired of fucking waiting. And they go up to use the, yeah. But then, and then this gets really fucking stupid.
It was after the grain of thing, which is again, random. You don't know where these blades are going to fall. Yeah. You know, you can have the first razor blade just come down or a pitch for lands in your skull and your fuck.
Or even releasing out of the grain thing, where the girl, the main girl there, she almost gets fucking stabbed by it. In the face with just like lawn mower equipment or something. It's just so specific. And it's especially when everything happens.
I mean, it's purposeful, but it's also like a lot of bullshit luck. Especially with Mitch. We're going to talk about him. He's the human plender victim.
He's next step. He's the next one. And they come across the next room. They see the giant contraption there.
And then the thing pops open. And the recorder is specifically for Mitch. Yeah. And it's like, well, how do they know he?
It has been like that past movies as well. And I agree with you. But at the same time, if Mitch is already dead, then it's an irrelevant trap. Yeah.
There's no one has to do it. And for that trap in particular, it's not like Mitch has to complete this or die for other people to move on. You know what I mean? So whose trap has become?
Or is there another trap there? Does that recorder just get left unfound and another one pops up for the next for the other person? Or what is that? Potentially.
I think it's just all convenient. The end result was to only have two people alive. Or nobody alive. He was still working on the last trap at the end, right?
Yeah. So it had nothing to do with. Yeah. So prior to Mitch dying, let's say, argument's sake, Ryan is just a dick.
And he doesn't pull a lever. So Mitch and girl, I want to say it started to the J. Anyway, so Mitch and Mitch and Anna. It's Anna.
Fuck Anna's stupid name. Sorry to have Anna's out there. Mitch and Anna. So say they just got Mercked inside the wheat thing.
The grain. The grain. Say they get Mercked in there. And then Ryan's just screwed anyways.
He's just going to die. Yeah. I guess you need all these things. Right.
It might be a movie. Because yeah. But for real. But I mean, I'm just saying, if it was a real life situation, say Ryan's just never, it doesn't pull the handle.
They die in there. And he's just going to die. Because even if he does eventually pull the handle, it just cuts off his leg. And what is he going to do?
I guess. They're not going to make him play that last final game by himself. He's just going to leave him locked in the room until he bleeds out. Because he wouldn't have let out if Anna didn't.
Or do you think that he'd come in and just knock him out to play final game to confront him? I don't think so. I think he'd probably just let him die. But he's just bleeding out.
It's just more effort than it's worth. I like that final trap though, where the shock and shell is the key to your salvation. They've done that a bunch of times, where it's the simplest thing. And just back firing because they're just so panicked and hypersensitive at that point.
Panic, hypersensitive. And their ego is their background because they're playing. That's partially the game. You can't have to leave your ego at the door and just use your head.
Yeah. And that's part of the game. That's true. That's true.
But going back to your Mitch-specific trap, that happens in almost every other movie as well. It's always a specific trap or something. That camera, which one it was, probably second or third. But there's that one guy who's like, he's like arson.
Like, parmagnac, you burned down a bunch of fucking buildings. He goes in the giant thing. Well, he needs to pick up the antidote, right? Yeah, out of the very end of it.
And then it's closing on and I burned a lot before he gets in. So that's a him-specific trap, like the needles. That's a specific trap to the heroine guy. There's side traps, especially in the first game.
That's what I like about the second one. It's like, everyone's fucked up. But each person's going to have a trap. You have to get their own antidote.
And then you're still going to have to do something to get out. No matter what, everyone's playing a game within a game within another game. But this one is the ass everywhere. And this one's more than the same.
Just more basic, less creative. Yeah, for sure. Let's talk about that real quick about the less creative thing. So we have, I want to say, oh, hollering.
It's hollering. We want to pretend he's like Irish or something. But Diet Coke might be eaten. He instantly, say Coke Zero.
He instantly, as soon as these things are happening, he assumes it's the friends pathologist. Both of them. Both of them. And they're like, wait, who else have he talked to?
Who else are your suspects? These are the people actually, I mean, he's technically right. At the same time, why would you just where are you getting this? Who do you think it's from?
Dave checked out two bodies and he's like, it's them. It's them. They're obsessed with this. I don't like the cut of their jib.
Why? No, you're a shit detective. I mean, you're instincts, yes, I guess they're right. He worked with the one dude.
It's just lazy writing. Forever and ever and ever. Yeah. Because then when you have such a small edgy, when you have a small list of people that you're involved with outside of the game that's going on, well, obviously it's going to be one of those guys.
But either one of the detectives or either one of the the theologists or one's working while the other one's doing this, the guessing game and the fun part of this is waiting for that final scene where it's like a five minute montage of the explanation where you hear the backroom is going like do do do do do do do do do. And then you're having this. You miss out on that. No, there is.
I mean, it happens, but it's not a shocker. No, it's not a shocker. It's not a shocker. It's not on it actually happening, but you miss out on the feeling of being a little bit surprised or whatever the case is.
It's like this is done. There are there are worse saw movies. Yes. But I mean, I had more fun with those ones than I did with this one to be honest with you.
When I just first saw it, I'm like this movie, like granted the other ones. They're all in the same budget. But this one just felt cheaper too. It did.
But just watching it was like, well, these just seem like just such a poor production than what we've seen. It's a little bit more bright, to be honest with you. Like because I mean, the main thing is a lot of the stuff during the day. It is.
It doesn't have that same grime. It doesn't seem to have that same desperation that the other ones were used to. It's flat. Yeah, it is.
It is flat. And I know we were excited for this. And again, if another one comes out, I'm probably still going to see it. But that doesn't mean these franchise are getting better, or this franchise in particular.
And it's like a soft reboot, in a sense, where that whole reveal is that this guy's been helping out doing these saw traps ever since he's been the real apprentice. Even though there's still an apprentice running around from the last one, you know, you have Lauren Scordin from the first movie. And everything is so intricate. And what's your deal?
The first survivor? She was in on it for a couple of them. You look a lot of them. She gets capped, though.
She gets shot at the jacket, doesn't she? Another female cop? I don't know. But it's one of them.
There are so many different things. So many apprentices. And we were talking about that prior to the podcast today, too. There's just so many flashbacks and fucking throwback Thursdays.
I went on a rabbit hole reading rabbit hole. All of these we could be summaries for sauce, once I saw three saw four by us. I saw five. I've lost interest.
This is ridiculous. They're just all over the place. A little bit. And they're all over the place, but they're trying to be together, which makes it worse.
I compared the whole jigsaw and apprentice thing to the Star Wars Sith and Jedi stuff. There's always the principle of two. You have the Sith Master and the Sith and the Apprentice. And they're always trying to overtake the Sith Master.
And that's a constant in this movie. It pretty much takes it right out of the lore. Yeah, but in the new Star Wars, they're just going to trade places. You got that guy?
You got that guy? Are you just telling me, Ray's going to be a bad girl? Ooh. Bad girl.
Oh shit. The first bad girl. Are you saying Ray's going to be the new Sith? Yes.
And then Ray? Or Kylo? Kylo? Emo Kylo?
He's going to be doing the good side, because he feels bad about that. I mean, he fucking killed Han Solo. How does it gather? But dead.
He's going to make it up to dead. He's going to make it up to mom, too. No, no. Real mom's rip also.
Well, I'm real. God damn. I know, I know. All right.
I mean, for this one, again, there's much else to touch on. There's really not. I think we covered all the good stuff. The only other final cool thing, probably the coolest death of the movie was at the very end.
Very end. When Detective O'Halle. Halleren Halleren. He was the victim.
He was the target, or he was the target, the entire movie from Logan who ends up being the apprentice of Jigsaw. He found because he's the original one of the helmet heads that gets pulled into the game. He's the one that's actually the start that gets pulled into it, but he survives because there's a simple mistake of the diagnosis of the cancer that doesn't get. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. He puts himself in a trap, and it's just a hologram or whatever. And which I thought, when I first watched him, like, it's a laser cutter, it wouldn't make you bleed. It would dice you up like something out of the Resident Evil franchise, no some little pieces.
There wouldn't be a blood splatter. All right, that's my first bugaboo. And then Halleren gets. That was kind of funny, though.
They told him. Yeah, I mean, that's typical. Like, that's straight out of like Kramer's. That's the one that was just a textbook.
Yeah. I'm going to pretend to kill myself. And that's a big reveal. Watch you die.
Wake back up after you think you died. He realizes that there's no burn marks on Mina hologram side. He looks up and the ceiling's getting ripped apart. And then again, throw back to Resident Evil when it does collapse in on his face.
His head splits apart like a fucking watermelon. Looks like an octopus a little bit. It looks like that. The typical Resident Evil like, bla bla bla bla bla bla.
Things that come out of them. How does this stuff go down? Yeah, I do know. It looks exactly like that.
But the head is the falls apart. But yeah, that's the best death. It's kind of hard to explain just because of the contraption. But it's cool.
Well, if you can hear me going bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. No, exactly. I thought it would be cool. It's cool.
I mean, you can honestly probably just YouTube the clip. Probably. That's probably up by now. You get the classic sliding door.
But he doesn't say game over, unfortunately. But he just slides the door like he's from him. Yeah, he doesn't say game over because he's going to be a ninth. Probably.
Is there actually confirmed? I don't know. Probably not. We probably look.
We'll find out. We don't care. But we're optimistic. Every time.