20 Years of APORDE: in conversation with Dr. Nimrod Zalk and Prof. Nicolas Pons-Vignon

Twenty years on, what happens when you sit down with two of the people who helped build APORDE and ask them what they were actually trying to change? In this episode of the APORDE Podcast, Thobani K is joined by Professor Nicolas Pons-Vignon and Dr. Nimrod Zalk for a wide-ranging conversation about the origins of the African Programme on Rethinking Development Economics, the battle of ideas around industrial policy, and why training a new generation of economists and policymakers became part of a much bigger strategy for change. The conversation moves from the dominance of neoliberal economics and the influence of the “Chicago Boys” to South Africa’s own industrial policy journey, the role of the state, and the tension between ambitious policy and the resources available to actually implement it. Along the way, they reflect on APORDE’s impact across Africa and the network of policymakers, academics and practitioners it has helped build over two decades. It’s also a conversation about what comes next: why rethinking development economics remains necessary, why industrial policy alone cannot answer every social challenge, and why APORDE must continue creating space for new ideas, arguments and people. Want to be part of it? Keep an eye out for the next APORDE call for applications, subscribe to the mailing list for programme updates, and follow the APORDE Alumni Network on LinkedIn. More information, previous seminars and episodes are available through the APORDE website. Credits: Host: Thobani K Guests: Dr. Nimrod Zalk and Prof. Nicolas Pons-Vignon Producer: Niki Cattaneo Researcher: Niki Cattaneo Editorial Reviewer: Nokwanda Maseko Audio Recording: Thobani K Audio Editing and Engineering: Richard Rumney Photography: Thobani K Graphic Design: Thobani K Social Media Distribution: Thobani K