What's next? This is the question we're all having asked at the answer worker code. I'm generally your host of the PIP podcast and author of PIP, The Only The Matter is the next one. For show notes from this episode, visit pithid.com slash podcast.
If change is the only concept, then let's get better at it. Here we go. Hello, Pithers. I'm so delighted and filled with the lead today.
It is like Chris's that I finally have my dear friends Bob and Alex here on the PIP podcast. Bob and Alex are some of my closest friends in your city. They're like family to me. I spend almost every friends giving with them when I go to a fly home to California and they have a new book coming out in August called RaccoE Alliance.
How to have game training conversations that will transform your business and your life. I'm just an alternate. I'm just an alternate. I'll say Alex and Bob and Alex.
Let me read your official aye. I was just going to give you a little taste. Alexander Jameson is a success mentor at Leighton Health Coach, a creative professional women who wants it all. She's a best-selling author of Women, Food and Desire, co-creator and co-star of the Oscar nominated documentary Super Size Me and highly sought out for it while in this expert.
She's also the host of her rules radio and amazing podcast. And I just have so much respect for you Alex. I love everything that you're doing. Bob helps organizations move faster, create better products and become happier and work in getting places to work.
He's a authority on agile software development, lean, berry and responsive organizational design. He speaks regularly on organizational development and leadership. Because he's a Bob and I love speaking about business books and agile. I'm so happy to have you here.
You can listen to a sense of a power couple. But those of us in New York, they often host these branches of rebels, creatives, interesting people with the best bacon. And I would say Alex and Bob, you are one of those couples. It's not only of us not only turn to advice, but look at it and just so respect how you operate that you are.
So loving and warm and respectful of each other, creative, supportive. And I'm not saying that you're perfect for anybody's perfect, but I will say that in our broader New York and Brooklyn community, I'll go do so many of us are often starting to for insight and advice. So thank you for being that in all our lives. Well, we're bringing touch by that.
Thank you. You didn't know you didn't know that on the PIP podcast. I just, my job is to make you blush. You know, I can listen to various you in the first 10 minutes or after good start.
It's working. So I'm really excited to talk about this new book, Radical Line. And by the way, everybody, this episode is going to come out on Friday, a May 1st. Can you mail ready?
Yeah. Oh my goodness. And it would be a bit boost to my Alex. If you had a conversation and you want to get this book, which I encourage everybody to do, let's all preorder it today.
Friday, May 1st. And this is going to give them an exclusive momentum. I always like to help friends out. And if you enjoy this as much as so many of us have benefited from the framework that we'll talk about today.
And this book was we were talking, has been remolded. There was a previous something called a pilot book, Bob. It's been it. Yeah, it used to be called getting a L.
Yes. And I'm a threat to mention Bob is being turned into pilot section. So a student rears. You know, a little bit of a Bob story.
Tell us about Ravel line. And maybe you can just kick us off with the framework. I'm sure it'll be us a million times. But just to get everybody a little bit on the same page.
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So the framework is a conversation framework.
It's sort of a structured conversation. And the idea behind us, I mean, we're a structured conversation. But the reason we built it or the reason that it actually kind of emerged as a valuable tool for us is that it really helps us avoid missing conversations. And in relationships with business and personal life, often conflict is due to people just not having had the right level information or operating from different levels of assumption, different kinds of assumptions.
A classical and useful personal context is you're going on vacation one person once and one person once the rest and relax, both people really want to go on vacation. And if we just use a word to occasion, we don't have a deeper conversation. We might not decide conversation that really people end up walking away from happy and satisfied and we might introduce conflict where none is really needed. So the idea is just like let's have a structure and let's just make sure that we hit all the notes.
It doesn't have to always be so structured. It can be we use it be almost like jazz within ourselves. You know, not to be done so much. But it really is pitched as we're describing the book as a very very structured conversation.
We haven't given businesses as well as personal life. We're doing something important. I'd like to say it's the four agreements for how to have a high stakes or highly emotional conversation where everyone wins. It's so good.
Can you share a little bit of four pieces? Yeah, it's really simple. We'll go deeper into it. But each share taking turns, your intentions, concerns, boundaries and dreams.
And the way this kind of shows up, like so let's actually use a kitchen as a business. Yeah, that's a good example. Yeah. I can't see like a tug of war too, right?
It's impossible to hit what book you are looking for after slides. Right. And also you can also bring the questions in different ways. And so intentions and boundaries and dreams as we look all the buckets that we're filling with information where we're concerning conversation two at different times.
But you can, but it really is very helpful to really tune how those questions are asked to the situation that you're in. So let's we want to try something. I'm just bringing this on now. But we've been dreaming of it recently about actually going on vacation this summer and vacation for us every year as to go to Oregon where Alice's family is.
And also where our favorite, one of our favorite places on the planet is the silly beach hotel which is in New Port, Oregon, it's on the coast. It's an old Victorian. But maybe we can just do a quick use as an example. We have a sense.
Yeah. All right. Cool. So we've done the first part of the conversation which is one of the several we're talking about.
And then we also talked about why we're talking about it. And I think we're talking about it because we both want to have a great vacation. Yeah. So then we start having the conversation.
And it's like, so Alice, why do you want to go on a vacation? I want to get out of our apartment. And I want to get out of New York City. I can't wait to get out into the world and explore again and be in nature and have fun together relax.
Yeah. So my role at that moment was just to listen to Alex. And you could go on, frankly, this conversation would be very deep. And you could take a 10 minutes and get all the potentials about something very longer.
Well, I'm also going to talk about what's important to her. That she wants to relax. She wants to get out of the apartment. So I'm trying to understand how the values are in need and tensions are wonderful.
I just want to expose what her values are important to us. So for me, I want to go on vacation. Because I actually like your family. I like to connect with them.
It makes me feel there in some ways, in some way closer than that I'm finally fortunate. And it really gives me that sense of family. Like I really, I really enjoy that. I also want to drink some good wine.
And we're going to want to replace you. That needs some wonderful food. Get out of some tight pools and find some CNM, any enemies. And then we go hiking and get in feet with and get down to get down to get down to get down.
We don't need intentions. Especially this is the first bucket and again, it just gets out. Why are we doing this? So what's the second bite out?
The second bite is you share your concerns. And this is something humans are really good at. We have a negative bias. So our worries, gears and concerns are usually more present than the good things we want.
And it's such a, it's such a, I know it might sound scary at first, but it can be a really soothing exercise to have a safe place, where somebody is just hearing your concerns and fears. And it actually can calm down a lizard brain, and it helps uncover any potential landlines in a topic. You mentioned that negative bias. It seems like for a lot of heated conversations, people jump right to concerns that starts with their concerns.
And then the conversation is sort of under the cloud of fear and concern worry. And that can even probably be a friend, the other person or no other person if they don't share the same concerns. Right. Or you're not given space to have them.
You know, somebody, one person might have a lot of your concerns and the other person gets upset with you for having them. When, yeah, no, and as I said, I don't want to put birth into your mouth, but talk about a vacation. The summer, look at couples where one is highly concerned about getting sick or taking that risk and maybe the other one isn't. The other one is more concerned about saying, oh, so let you be going.
I'm loving people fly on the wall of this conversation. But it seems really important. Even the topic that seems, I can not call the kitchen troubles and not now, but it's not that it says that's even controversial. But yet, with the times that we're in, absolutely good to be.
And concerns don't even have to be logical. I'm going to go back to the negative advice. When we started writing a book together, which was our first project, we ever business project, we were together, we were stable a couple when we started. We used this process to talk about doing the project.
The other one concern came up was doing a project that's going to cause stress and stress is going to be divorced. You know, it actually went all the way there really quickly. Even though that wasn't, you know, like, we both didn't have a relationship or a different relationship with that. And we knew that this one was not that.
But at the same time, it was like, but that concern was there. And there was something great about just seeking it and hearing it come out of your mouth. Sometimes you say, it's something like, oh, that's something that doesn't end up saying it. Sometimes it's an opportunity for that.
I love it. I don't know why this is going to concern for me, but it is. Yeah. Like, let me talk about my concern in my communication.
I was just saying, this makes sense. I'm concerned Alice's family doesn't like me, which is really ridiculous, I think. But it's like it has to do with my history. And we all are concerned about people like us or something.
It's not about her family per se. It's about me. But it's sort of like, oh, yeah. But if I think about going out there, you know, like, oh, I think about maybe all the people that don't want me around.
I'm concerned that we often end up working while we're on vacation. And sometimes one of us needs to work while we're on vacation. Just a little bit. So I'm concerned about balancing our work schedule with our place schedule with our teenagers schedule who wants to go to a different state part every day.
You know, it's like anticipating problems too. Yeah. And I'm concerned, you know, like this crisis is causing changes in everybody's business. You know, thankfully we've been spared from a lot of that.
And, you know, but definitely I am more cautious with cash than I have been in passing in five or six years now. And I'm concerned about, oh, we should really be sending that money out. There's a dumb thing, something, something I don't know. And so I'm not even going to be concerned that we won't do the vacation.
And we will suffer far than anything. Yeah. That we should say that we should send that money on something. Mm-hmm.
And you address the other concerns when you're going through the framework. Would you respond or would you just hear each person's concerns? Try to surface them all as many again. And keep moving.
It really depends. It depends on your emotional state as a person who was listening. So if I hear somebody say something and I want to fix it or I want to finish it or I want to change the other person. If I'm feeling triggered, let's just say, and I think it can be something that's really good to notice.
Particularly man, I think we're trying to think we're triggering. That we're being critical. You know, we're being logical or something, but really, you know, like, oh, that, I've sat knee to hear that. Then you probably shouldn't say anything.
But if you are curious and if you really are, you wanna hear more and you think your questions might actually help the person get more in touch with their concerns on deeper level, then by all means. The intent of this conversation, by the way, is not problem solving. The intent of this conversation is pure information sharing. Because more information we have about each other, more empathy we have for each other, which means that any solution we do come up with, which we can go in as problem solving later, or solution later, but we wanna go in with a full range of information.
So right now, you're just asking questions. Just- I love that you shared that, I love that you did with that frame, that this is servicing information and connecting and aligning is not a problem solving. Great. Not even a little bit.
I'm actually lecturing all of the men out there, who desperately need to hear that. Because when my heart is with, which here is something I'd be like, what you know what you should do is flank, or that's that concern is silly because of x. You know what I'm going to explain to mode or diminishing mode or problem solving mode. And this is not, you know, it's not really helpful.
It's a place eventually they can be very helpful. But, you know, if you're trying to share information and create sharing, they're not. It's even the number one thing to say, the pivot is make is trying to make sure it's problem solving. And they're not aligned with themselves on their intentions or strengths, their vision.
So there's some very similar categories. And when that happens, and you're not necessarily problem solving, there's no solution there. The person can become more stuck and analysis paralysis compared to spare all the things again in the way because we do have a human inclination toward problem solving two quick latines. And almost at the big control, what fields are well-maintained or scary?
Yes. How about boundaries for this upcoming vacation? Yeah, so boundaries are sometimes challenging for people to express or know. So we encourage you to think of them as starter boundaries.
No, give it a try. Doesn't have to be perfect. And you're not demanding anything in the moment. Think about how you want to feel.
How do you want to feel? And how do you know you need to take care of yourself? And what can you do to feel that way? That's, you know, what's your best self care for yourself?
Like a boundary may be, you know, I'm not going to drink more than twice a week on vacation. You know, which is more challenging, what certain family members are about? A boundary can be, you know, we're not going to stay with a certain family member. We're going to stay in a hotel because that person is very stressful to be around 24 seven.
Yeah. And then, you know, I also think a lot about starting boundaries. I think the two of us are like flexible boundaries. And if you've had kids or puppies, you know, you've had, you know, that they, you know, like you have your boundary and you have to get boundaries, you know, if you get some puppies, but you also have to be flexible with the boundaries because sometimes you may have a little bit wrong.
And they, the harshness of boundary and sometimes actually not well, so it's just a few more outcomes. So, you know, like when I travel, I always have, you know, specific boundaries, we probably have a certain like preferences, like if I'm going to fly somewhere, I'm going to be on an I'll seat, and I do a direct flight. I don't like to change. And I like to fly during the day, not, you know, not not not not not not much of sleeping.
And I like to not do early in the day. Like all of those sorts of things. Also, so, so, so, like a one coast, you know, one boundary, we do it like for two nights and then we realize that three nights, it takes a long time to get there, one time to get back, you know, to drive. And so, you know, you know, you know, it's a little things like that.
It's like that, it's like, I'm interested in interesting, like I was particularly in boundaries of work. I might talk about how many hours of sleeping at night or the fact that I need exercise a certain amount of time and it would be my best at work. But really saying, why did I need in order to show up as my best self in the circumstance that we're discussing? And it's an opportunity to do not just communicate to your partner, your boundaries are often.
It's, you know, these are questions we have in ourselves sometimes. Like just discussing like, what do I need? When am I at my best? And sometimes you can throw some of, tell me about it, tell me about a time at a work project or a vacation where you're best what was that like?
And then you can get on that way too. Like boundaries are such a tricky area. The word itself is tricky to me. You know, I've read books that say, you've got to have clear boundaries and maybe it's books on codependency or things like this where you don't have boundaries, you are completely lost and you're as addicted as the person you're supporting.
Okay. And then I read other books. And now it's like, you're all in the past. But let's say, Byron Gady's take boundaries is there more rigidity, or creating certain rigidity is that don't necessarily, you can inquire around them.
And boundaries can actually soften. And so for me, it seems so tricky sometimes to understand what is a true boundary. And then what if that boundary conflicts? Because you can see me here's my future trip of like, what if, when two boundaries of each person or preferences, I love how you give us options here.
Start a boundary, flexible boundaries, preferences. When they seem to conflict, how do you soften around these? And, but it's such an important question as well. What you said, it can be hard to know individually about those boundaries, even our ideal preferences.
Well, it's a dance. You know, it's not always easy in the middle of this conversation to know. I actually recommend like going through the entire thing before you start working on that kind of thing. But just notice when you're in the boundary section, okay, so our boundaries are not aligned.
You know, you have, you want to go out drinking every night and I don't want to drink twice. Maybe a conflict there. Okay, so now we see it. Let's keep going.
Let's keep talking. Let's keep getting through the next section and then maybe come back and create the plan. Yeah, because right now we're talking about, you know, I think, so we do know this in the business context. It's been a part of this conversation structure.
So this is not just a time I talk about the boundaries of a project, you know, like, all our deadlines, whatever, but just you know, what are the things that we know? You know, so we can say, we can say, we can say, we can say, we want to say you. Like, what has you show up as your best, you know, or you know, I work with a lot of teams. It's not just big companies.
And the only one person who is, you know, 50% allocated the project that we're discussing, somebody else for whom is 10% and somebody else is there from everything and their whole career is resting on, you know. And sort of like, you need to articulate those things up front and having different levels of, you know, making okay with different levels of all different boundaries. But you don't know until you get all those out. The other thing I was thinking of is, sometimes people leave with their concerns.
I also find sometimes people leave with their boundaries, you know, like, you know, especially people, I don't myself, you know, I read my books on myself and people are having, you know, having time with it, you know, you know, addictive environments, right? That sometimes we are poor without these early on. So then once we learn them as a new tool, we're like, bounty bounty bounty bounty everywhere. You just got my boundary.
Therefore, you know, like we just start using them to kind of like deflect everybody away from us and push everybody away. I think that there's a time and that's really, really appropriate. But the intent, the way we're using them here is really just as sort of shared exploration of the first principles that what makes us show our best. And you know, that mean that we mean that literally neglect them.
And so it has to be sort of a curious conversation, not a firm setting of boundaries. That's not what we're saying. And I love that take on it of asking for individual. I've never heard boundaries expressed as, what helps you show up as your best?
I mean, that's so empowering to think of it. But that way instead of what you want, what do you want to block out? What you want to prevent? And that whole thing of what we directly soundry so that you, the other person, can make me feel safe.
But instead, like, what do I need? And what arises within that question? And I love Alex's provider. Don't try to solve this yet.
Because here again, with concerns with boundaries, it might be tempting if there's sensitive points in this to try to solve from that point. Although it doesn't seem as generative as let's say you in the last section of the framework dreams, might be. Yeah. Yeah.
Sometimes by the, you know, you might find point of conflict in the first, or in conflict concerns and boundaries, but the final section you're ending on I know is your dreams. If this education were to go so beautifully for me, for you, for us, for the family, what would happen for this to become such a life of her name and generative vacation for us? And sometimes that helps frame those conflicting boundaries. The answer just becomes obvious.
It can solve that problem. Yeah. Yeah. Dreams is sort of like what are we creating?
You know, it's pulling us towards rather than boundaries sort of like what are we moving away from? What are we trying to wall out or wall off? And I think they're both, you know, it's much better to have a, if you're making decisions about boundaries, to be clear about what they are in service of, and the dream is what they're in service of. So we originally, I think in the first, first, in a conversation where we're just like, let's get it out.
Let's just sort of like brainstorming rules. There are no bad ideas. You know, like there are no bad boundaries, but we're not making any decisions now. Just because you know, we're not ordering off a menu.
Just because I say my boundaries, my boundary is I'm drinking every night, or that came from because it's not me. But anyway, let's say that was a boundary. Like I want to really find one on every night, this education that's going to, you know, that I'm just getting that, I'm just getting it out there as kind of a starter. I'm not saying that I'm going to get everything.
I'm not ordering you to allow me to go out drinking every time. I'm ordering all the menu because the relationship is a dialogue relationship. And we're both fully committed to the relationship above and beyond any specific experience that we're having. We always understand it's going to be one person that he loves, I have a person that I desire for, whatever it is discussing.
And so we're going to have everything in sort of negotiation and we're just being explicit about that. And I think the part of sharing our dreams together that I love so much is it really helps frame the relationship and also the vacations specific topic. Coming from the place of like we are for each other. I am for you and you are for me.
And this relationship isn't 50, 50. It's 100% 100% we're both really investing in this. That's what that's the power of this entire conversation. It's really helpful to include your partners happiness in your dream, you know, to kind of remind them, you know, like, so let's say we're going to be, coming through the space.
So my dream of this vacation would be that we, and often I like to do it almost just really like, how am I feeling at the end, you know, more than what am I experiencing along the way? And I think, you know, I'm dream is that we're flying home from the conversation everybody's healthy. Everybody is happy. We have some, you've collected some shells that are going to, you know, they're going to be, you know, the collections we have around the house.
And we're well rested and kind of coming home really excited to get back to work, you know, and because it doesn't happen before we launch our book, probably in August. So that we're coming home like ready to do that final push for the book. Yeah. Or maybe it's after the, I don't know, we're going to be honest.
We'll get some after that. Yeah. Yeah. My dream is that we each feel so totally filled up and satisfied in ourselves.
Like you had the experiences that we're fun and relaxing and filling for you. I feel rested like we connected to nature and have fun with our kid. And we have to see all our family and friends and have fun with them and new memories were made. And, you know, surprising things happen.
We had great food. And, you know, just really feeling into all of those possibilities for each other in ourselves. That sounds awesome. We're all going to come on the situation.
I should point out the question is, we've talked this process by way to probably about 1,000 people since the start of the pandemic. And we haven't done anything nearly as happy as one on vacation or the sun. And social distancing and what does that mean for a family? But we still ask the dream content question at the end of it.
It's like, I mean, we're just like, what's your dream for this pandemic? Given that it's so horrific and it's causing people so much personally, both their lives and their livelihoods. And so much uncertainty. And yet there is a way that you can get through a stressful circumstance and be proud.
I think what I've come from a very little approach is I want to look back on my time and I want to be proud of the way that I behave. I didn't let the stress cause me to be in a way that I'm, you know, we can all get a small sometimes. I didn't get angry and tight, and I was courageous and I supported the people around me. And I took care of myself and I took care of the things what you're ready to do with an answer without people else or too often.
Yeah. You mentioned future tripping, which is something we do. But actually future tripping for this dream portion, it's, you know, it's a slight pivot. And how do future tripping?
I'm looking back on this vacation from the future, looking back and thinking, wow, that was amazing. How did it go? Yeah, I love that. And I love that question of what would I be proud?
So both of the vacation, example, and even something that you'll talk about triggering. I could see how these stay at home, social situations can be a struggle to go start. What I want to do is keep guys having as well, where some days you're often in a second, hoping getting along and then other days, it's like we haven't done anything other than speed. Yeah, we're now working on people days.
Totally. Totally. But it's a huge part of what I teach too, without that vision and more of it's all the better as you both said. That's the draw.
That's what becomes a compelling and creative. And I wonder if you experience this with your framework, but with pivots, certainly I tell people you don't have to know how you're going to get that vision. It's just a permission to let yourself dream a little bit before you get too bogged down in the how, in the next steps, that go, go, pig, be wild, be crazy, be curious, say what's really on your mind for your vision. You can always change it later.
But I don't see any downside of just letting yourself roam in that dream's stage of this rapid framework. Yeah. I think it's clear on what's essential. But I think the boundary conversation, you can have a boundary, I need to leave work at work, and I'm having a time to leave work at a five every day.
And that's just kind of just be petulant. But it's like, what my boundary is that I get time with my family each day, because that's how I show my best of following. And my boundary is that I eat well and exercise enough and I sleep well. And so you begin to get the dreams are, I'm getting this project and really proud of the work we've done.
And nobody has sacrificed their health and work together. Like they come with me very simple. And they can be, and that's almost really a radical rather than saying I'm on stage of the tech conferences. Or I mean the best thing ever.
Which is part of my dream. But it's not, we're not trying to fantasize necessarily as much as we are trying to be grounded in what the true essential nature of this thing is for us. I love that. I love that.
And I'm so happy about vacation, as the example today, too, in a way you're giving us all, I think you're walking us all through a dream of what can this be in the most simple ways and essence. I just love that guidance around the essence of the vision and the dream. How has it been? So you've been talking at home, doing virtual workshops, and connecting with friends, I'm sure, virtually.
And working on this book and getting a great little one to the book. So how has it been for the two of you? This is the first book you've written together. It is a pivot.
It is the next iteration of getting value. Yes, but talk to us about this process. And I always think whatever topic you choose right about. I like, you both know this.
You both know this. You both know this. You both know it. But you suddenly get a black belt in that topic.
And what you've learned, even working on this version of the book that's coming out sound through about this process that maybe you didn't even know your go. You know, we both feel like it's some kind of divine timing that we're starting to promote and market this book in a time when the tool that we wrote about is so helpful to people. It's, you know, we weren't planning on teaching a bunch of huge online workshops to people before the book launch. But we've had the opportunity to share the tool.
And we've been using it constantly together as a couple for the book for our marriage. We have a child who has been with his dad, most of this isolation period. And we're going to be using it with him when he comes back. We're going to be using it as a couple before he comes back.
And I'm really grateful for this tool. We use it so often. And it helps us just get clear and reconnected. Because we do, I certainly spin out to help you for myself.
Like I have moments of doubt and fear and worry and coming back to this grounding, kind of ritual of a way to connect that feels safe and the structured just really helps bring some alignment to my life. Yeah. And I think for me, the thing, and I also couldn't do my work as a management consultant. As you know, my client near your home.
And of course, I haven't seen them because we're all working in our home offices now for seven weeks, six or seven weeks at a week, so it's a moment. And plus the book. So anyway, there's been a lot of stress actually. I've been working very hard as an large stress.
And one of the things I think that the gift of difficult moments in our lives and in our world is that it really allows us to rethink about what's essential, just like in New York City or all of the world. Like as we discovered that people who deliver our food, our essential workers, people who work who work in bad grocery and grocery stores, our essential workers. And maybe people who aren't compensated like they are essential. The way they perhaps should be, or you're going to appreciate it socially, they don't have the social value or whatever, in the city necessarily.
I hope that's something out of it. I'm really not trying to search anybody. But what I'm saying is like, it gives us a opportunity to be with essential. And what I'm discovering is that because my work is often about strategy and my work is often about let's all at the IQ or the capability of a team of an organization.
But what I'm discovering is that it's the EQ. And it's the relationship which is really the game changer in really different. I've been calling that direction probably the past five years. And now this has going to be the opportunity to be like, oh yeah, this is where my career needs to focus on us entirely.
He is on building really strong emotional relationships between team members because that's the difference maker. And this is the difference maker in life. As evidenced by your other branches. They have happened.
Yeah, now this one is really, but it's really good. If only everyone takes your experiences or branches, you're both so good about connecting with yourselves with each other and with your community. And I think that's why. And I started this episode saying, you're like family to me.
And you are not the only one that you would say that. So it is really a gift that you both have. And I love, I just love seeing how this body of work has unfolded and evolved over the years. And you've got to be excited at the beginning.
It's kind of like jazz. But what do you think on stage together for the first time in 2018, responsive? And throw that in notes. See you facilitate these workshops now.
Even having you here on the podcast, of course, it's seamless. I was wondering how the computer can be our two people at once. I'm not under anything. I don't know what's before.
Sometimes it's a dog or something. But it's such a delight to see how you're both so in the moment with each other. Well, thank you. Thanks.
Well, it's just so fun. The talk to you. What's up with my view? But it's even more fun.
So now I'm getting recorded and shared. I feel like I'm so happy that the podcast you need to learn more about both of you. This just works a lot to you for me. I'm very curious because any talk on the podcast to you about leadership, polarization thinking, pinning down a framework.
Thanks for working. This isn't an iteration. Dreams used to be called desires early on. And then we decided that there was one we were working with.
Because we started off actually. We were teaching it in a couple of workshops that we taught years ago. And it was always a, we call it an afterthought. Because we realized that the first workshop that people were writing with different level of expectation for the workshop.
Often one person was being dragged there by the other. And we're like, you've got to be blind before we even start. And so we just sort of developed this. We were like, what are the things that are missing?
Well, people, why are you coming? Well, I'm just going to judge this. I'm not going to be a sheet-making. And while that's, you know, you could be better.
It's also rather valid. Any kind of a sweet intention, right? I'm here because my partner wants to be here. And I don't know what I'm getting into.
I don't know if everything's fine. It's fine. But just getting that out and having that out and having it present in the room, we found really valuable. And then the concerns was also like, well, I mean, we would find, we would find like in the workshop that people would walk over we would call them landmines.
You know, like there's their real topics that you don't know where they're in. So you start talking about them. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh man, we should have known that. And the time to talk about concerns.
And the boundaries and dreams and dreams which is sort of a nice and exciting. And so I think it's we change. what's changed about it is it's become more important. And it's been kind of straight into more context for us.
It's more foundational and it's more universal. Yeah, we've used it in so many more unique ways since the beginning. We've figured out how to apply it. It really applies to almost every situation or topic that we have.
I remember so many times, you know, me calling Bob or Alex. I mean, can you tell me the four steps again? And right down, maybe on that again. And then I've also been in the room and someone else is saying, can you tell me those four steps again?
So many people and formerly always asking you. And for my need because I got a really prepared for this conversation or we're really disagreeing on this thing. Or there's a lot of fear in this other area. And I just remember so many friends and so many moments over and over.
Well, this book started as a Google guy, I think, for exactly that user. You know, I just explained this so many times. And you know, I don't love to explain it to people. But I actually was explaining it once to a friend.
I was a cab in New York. And it was a lot of traffic. So I ended up being in it for like an hour coming home, you know, a tenant at right, turning to a tenant right. And I was in it one from the friend L.A.
who adjusted was just getting together with a new partner. And I just arrived the whole, and at the end of the end of the card, I was getting out of the card in the conversation. And you were driving over and going, I was like, thank you so much. Oh, that's so cool.
Oh, my gosh, that's so cool. I know. I was thinking when we came to this conversation. And there I'm going to go do that thing.
We're asking for something. Yeah, again, because I'm here. I am four years after picking out. And I've explained it in any time.
It's just like, well, the view. But I love how you pick the topic that's fresh right now. And I just have to juggle myself realizing if you spent your whole podcast or this book launch each time picking the next topic, that's real for you, you'll work for somebody thanks by the end of your whole bunch. Oh, my gosh.
Yeah. Because I'm really, really like, yeah, after four or five years, someone says, what are the four stages? I'm like, OK, here we go. and these are gone as autopilot.
But you didn't do that. Very fresh. I like it. It's also fresh and so useful for us.
Like it's still this really is not fun. It's just being like, I was, I was, you know, I don't know. We have a, we have a relationship. And I've got a relationship.
Yeah, I agree. I've got a relationship. I've got a lot in my life. And one of the reasons that I think we have a relationship is it's not just a matter of the right people for the right for each other, you know, like having this conversation.
But it is, but it's meant to become so foundational to us. And I'm just so glad. I'm so grateful. We just got a text today.
I'm saying, I thought of her a year ago and she's like, everything that's amazing. I'm like, it's just so wonderful here. It's having a packed repeat. So thank you for giving us a lot.
I'm sure. So my final question before asking where people can find you in more about the book and pre-order is what are your dreams for this launch this year? I mean, I would love for this to get on a bestseller list. That would be amazing.
My dreams are that we just get this tool into so many people's hands. And that we just get to keep basking in the joy of hearing people's experiences of coming together and getting clear and finding relief and, you know, finding, and creating great relationships. Yeah. I mean, I just remember the bestseller list.
And the dream is so that it gets into a lot of people's hands. And that people begin to pass it around. That really, I think it's the word of mouth, which is so gratifying to me. My here's somebody who hasn't heard it from me, who is using methodology in a different in their lives.
And I think from a personal perspective, like our dream of dream is that we are building a, we both have other businesses and we do other things. But this becomes a real sort of thing that I get to do all the time. I think I can do a lot of things. He's a significant part of our business and more his work.
I love that. My dreams are that you have to go on this. I mean, vacation and everyone comes home safe that we have a friend brunch. Again, when we can, oh my goodness.
We're like, rather go, let's take it. We can get all that out. And my other dream is that you'll be on the sound throughput. It has an Tammy Simon video because I just love her interview.
I'm so good and I can't wait to listen to that. She's a publisher. Sounds true. That's not my dream too.
That's what happened. I mean, it's inevitable. I think so. So our other collective dream is that if you enjoy this conversation, you'll help off and Alex and Bob kick off this launch with a really strong preorder day today.
So of course, if you listen to this after Friday, may first, no worries. So I have your here. You can still preorder and that it does make a difference to help show publishers and show Amazon which books are going to have some traction momentum. Getting off the publisher to determine how many copies of print for the first run, something that's practical.
Go wherever you buy your books to write radical alignments, how to have games and conversations that will transform your business and your life. Thank you. Yeah, that was working people. Really, I'm sure you go to Amazon for the day for them for the first because that's the algorithm we're trying to make.
May first. I am on every other day. Go to an independent book. Awesome.
And what about online? There's a special book website. You can go to radicalalignmentbook.com. And if you put your name in the little email box, we'll give you a free chapter that takes you through scripts and the steps that we use in our home.
How we've used the conversation. So it's a great free chapter guide. You'll also get notified of the workshops. We have coming up.
We don't have one friendly schedule. We can actually get notified of the next week. And then that list will be notified of the other. So yeah.
If there's something you know about, they're always cooking up something. So whether it's Brad's reply or workshop. There's always something. Yeah.
Thank you both so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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