#211 - Is AI Distillation Illegal?

Anthropic calls some AI distillation illicit. But is distillation illegal? The answer may depend less on what you do with AI outputs than on how you accessed them. This episode is a deep dive into how courts might rule. We cover X v. Bright Data, what OpenAI's and Anthropic's terms say about who owns AI outputs, why Anthropic's own fair use arguments could be turned against it and what the labs will likely do next. Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their payments platform. You'll hear from the three Variant co-authors of one of the sharpest papers on the topic: Daniel Barabander, investment partner and chief legal officer at Variant Sabina Beleuz, deputy general counsel at Variant Elijah Fox, investor at Variant Read their article here: https://variant.fund/articles/license-distill-law-distillation-anthropic/. Timestamps: 0:00 What is distillation? 1:52 Intro 3:01 Why distillation matters 5:44 X v. Bright Data 7:50 Access vs. selling 10:40 Copyright preemption 11:25 Why X doesn't own your posts 13:49 From scraping to distillation 16:12 Who owns AI outputs? 19:38 Is all distillation illicit? 24:10 Anthropic's fair use problem 25:05 Bartz v. Anthropic 26:42 Predictions 28:41 Distilling the distillers 29:21 Selling services, not tokens 32:34 Antitrust 37:06 Tech moves exponentially, law sublinearly 40:47 Humans, AI and personhood 45:15 Final thoughts Thank you as well to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the Decentralization Research Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email [email protected]. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.