223: Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Series, Part 3

Discover two cidermaking techniques that are also used in winemaking, called Maderisation and Bâtonnage. We delve into both of these topics in Part 3 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners. Maderisation: What is this technique and can it be used with cider? Bâtonnage: are there any short term benefits from bâtonnage or does one need to "stir up the barrel" for a long period (1 year at the least) to benefit from this technique? Listen Part 1 and Part 2 of the Quarantine Quad Series. Maderisation - The barrels are cooked - sometimes for years. Developing flavors called "maderised". If done well it can be delicious. High alcohol cider is best for maderisation - slower  bacterial growth. Cider that is has a low alcohol by volume  - likely to get organism spikes. FieldBird is planning to do a maderized cider from the 2020 harvest Northern Spy, fermented half way and fortified with apple brandy and let the barrel sit in a hot place. 17 Brix on the Spys (9%) ferment down half way and then add brandy. Getting 8% sugar. Sugar helps - creates the caramel flavor and provides an appearance of freshness. No MLF in the presence of sugar. Leave in cellar over the winter. Then leave the barrel outside all summer. 30 Celsius - 86 Farenheit. This will cause the maderisation The risk of maderisation is cooking a barrel to much The final product will be around 17-18%  Battonage: Is it worth it if you don't have a full year to do Bâtonnage on a barrel? Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins There are short term benefits. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles. They slow down after the first primary ferment. Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state. Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components. In wine, a Sauvignon Blanc, has rich tropical flavors which come from a rich reductive state, At FieldBird, they save lees in the freezer. Cracking - the freeze helps the lees cells break down. Using frozen lees that have cracked - means it will takes only 4-5 months versus 8-9 months in the barrel to get the benefits from Bâtonnage Contact for Ryan Monkman at FieldBird Cider website: https://www.fieldbird.ca/ Instagram  FieldBird https://www.instagram.com/fieldbird.cider/ Ryan Monkman https://www.instagram.com/rgmonkman/ Mentions in this chat Stories in Ciderville - send in fiction and nonfiction essays to read out loud on Cider Chat to [email protected] September 1-6, 20202 England Cider Tour  Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube