The marketing movement. My refine left. Welcome everybody to the podcast. This is Jessica.
Once again from the people seen, we are so excited to be back. My team is going to be continuing to record more content and work podcasts about talent and people ops. So today we have Rebecca here. And the topic we're going to talk about today is transitioning from a traditional workspace to a fully distributed workforce, which I think is going to be very interesting with everything that's going on.
We just hit the two-year mark of the pandemic. So a lot of people are either still remote or have decided like me that they're never going back. So I think this is going to be a very interesting conversation. So first, I'm going to let Rebecca introduce herself.
Hi. So I'm Rebecca Hardam, a talent advisor here at Refine Labs. To give you some background on me, I come from the organizational psychology world. I started off my career in campus recruiting initially, then transitioned into an HR generalist position.
And then that evolved into an HRP role. So a little bit of everything when it comes to HR. But really discovered that talent acquisition TA was my passion and decided to pursue TA positions exclusively. Perfect.
And I'm very excited about that. So Rebecca's new to my team. And she has been amazing so far. So I'll give you, for you guys, I did not listen to the previous episode where I was hosting with Kim.
I'll give you some insight on me. So I am the vice president of people here at Refine Labs. And we are continuing to grow and build out our team. So that is why I've tasked my team with all doing a podcast.
So we can give you guys insight into what's going on with us. And so to Rebecca's point, she's been here seven weeks, eight weeks. Correct me. Yeah.
I think this is actually nine weeks. Oh, there you go. Yeah. So with that in mind, I know obviously when you're transitioning into a new role, there's a lot that comes with it.
But when you're going for a more of a traditional workspace to go into somewhere like Refine Labs, where we're pretty progressive and innovative and fully distributed, give me your thoughts on that. Rebecca, how did that impact you? Yeah. So my story is actually very similar to how a lot of people due to the pandemic, I got a taste of working from home when we all got sent away two years ago in March.
And it's funny enough because at the time, I was actually pregnant. And so my work from home situation, they told me to stay working remotely until you have your baby. And so I was actually working remotely longer than the rest of my team who returned to the office. But that experience really shaped what I was looking for.
And if you're employer, along with a lot of other people at the time, with a pandemic, how are we going to make this work? What are we going to do? And a lot of employers from traditional backgrounds, I actually worked for a city. And so you think municipality government, there's no way they can go fully remote.
We were forced to. And we found ways to adapt and learn and grow because we had to out of necessity. And through that, because we were so successful, and because I personally was very successful working from home, even if I'm pregnant, I was scheduling a virtual career fair, interviewing people, adapted and evolved to it. And I was like, I really love this work-life balance.
And when I was considering an opportunity, I was exclusively looking at fully remote opportunities. And I love that we're fine labs. The whole workforce is a fully distributed workforce. So we can all relate to each other, the good, the bad that comes with that.
But for me personally, I love it and I thrive. I don't have to worry about commuting, getting ready. I am a very independent worker. And it's funny enough, working from home, I'm harder on myself.
Because I'm like, I need to be on. I need to be working. I need to get this done. And then I actually was in a traditional workspace.
And for me, growing up, I had a lot of impressions of the workplace. So to give you some background on myself personally, my grandparents are immigrants from Mexico. And my mom is first generation American. And I remember her telling you stories about her getting into the workforce.
And my wedding to tell her, you can't go out into the city. You can't go to another state. What are you going to do if you have a flat tire? And that was very real for her.
And their ideal was, are you working in an office with air conditioning? That's what they cared about at that generation. And that was like, wow, you haven't made. And for my parents' generation, they really valued a stable, large company.
My parents met in the workplace. And they worked for a grocery store chain in the Chicagoland area. And it was at the Big Head Quarters. And that was the epitome of success at that time, in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s.
And growing up, now myself being in the workplace, I've actually put a lot of changes into what I look for in an employer because of my history. And so taking their ideals into consideration. And then the culture and the climate that we're in now, it's so different. What they valued versus what I valued, a work-life balance has always been at the top for me.
Again, coming from my psychology background, I learned early on, I was very grateful that that was instilled in me. When I was in grad school to create those work-life balance boundaries. And I've always kept that at the forefront as I've progressed in my career. And knowing that Refined Labs is so aligned with that same value, I mean, it's been incredible.
It's been amazing. Yeah. So to your point, yeah, I remember at my previous employer, I was the one who sent out the email when the pandemic started as the head of people. And so it's pretty ironic because I still have that email.
And in the email, I said, we're going to work from home for two weeks. And I expect to come back to the office. That's literally what I told everybody. And that was two years ago.
And I have not gone back to an office. I don't know if I go back. But one of the things that actually got me to start looking at Refined Labs is that my employer was talking about going back into the office. And my mind said, on just being an office has changed.
And it's ironic because in the beginning of my career, people told me that I could do people's off start HR from my home. I would have laughed and said no. Because it was such a big deal 10 years ago and I'm not going to be doing it. And I totally understand that mind frame.
But it just has shifted. It has definitely shifted. And to your point about being at larger employers, in my background, I worked for GM. And that was the epitome.
Literally, my parents told everybody, all of my people, it was such a big deal that I worked for GM. And when I told them I was going to leave and go to a startup, they're like, say, what now? You know what I mean? So the thought has just changed.
And I think even the thought on being in a startup has changed. Or an early-stage company, Refined Labs, is within business for about three years. So the stability of that, what does that mean for people, even that has changed. And I think it goes right along with being fully distributed.
And you guys will notice that when we say fully distributed, we don't say remote. Because to us, that implies that someone is in an office. And Refined Labs, we don't even have an office. You know, we don't have a physical location.
And so there's no one that's going to be going into an office anywhere, because that's just not the case. We do have some people that decide they wanted to work in a shared space together. Like, we work completely fine. But that's not our office.
And I think that speaks to the fact that from my perspective in HR, if you were working in a hybrid location, you have two different cultures. You have the remote culture and you have the remote office. And from a people at standpoint, that is so hard to mean. You are managing two different companies, really.
And so I'm so happy we don't have that here. Because that will be a hard work for me. It would. And it's interesting, because in interviews, I do interviews with a lot of candidates, and they're always acting.
Yeah, but where's the headquarters at? And I'm like, we don't have one. It's technically awesome, because that's our C-rays. But no, we don't really have one.
And we let people operate in their time zones. And we're respectful of it. And I love that we put it even in our Slack name, our time zone. And it really works for us here.
Early on, for me, my impressions of working from home early on in my career, it was through to be a luxury and a privilege. At the time, it was kind of only reserved for certain industries or certain companies, or even in emergency situations. The weather is bad or something is happening. And it wasn't this full-time option, this opportunity, that could be for everybody in every department.
Yeah, absolutely. It was more exclusive. And now, I think most people, I've read a survey the other day. I believe it was in the New York Times.
And they were talking about it as an expectation now that people want to work for home at least twice a week. So that is now the expectation. It is no longer for employers now that are telling people they have to go back into the office five days a week. They better watch out.
My thought to that is when you release that statement, know that your people are about to start getting emails from recruiters because they know that they're too clean. So I actually know a couple of people that are using that as strategic recruiting, that when an employer reports that they're going back full-time, that they start reaching out to their employees, because they know that people don't want to leave. So it's such a big deal. So when you started here, what was your first impression of the remote space?
Like, obviously, you have been working remote, but I think it's different to go from it being not everyone's remote to it being, that's just the way of the world here. Yeah, no, it was actually really interesting. And I didn't really think about it until honestly, the night before my first day. Yeah.
And I kind of freaked out. And I was like, oh, but how will I know when everybody's on? And how will I know when this is going to happen? Because it didn't hit me until I realized that, wow, I really rely heavily on observational cues, things that you just witnessed or see around the office.
OK, so everybody kind of rolls around in between us time. Or it's socially acceptable to leave. We're kind of around here. And there was nothing.
And so you have to be very upfront. And like, what would you expect to be? What are my expectations? And you have to kind of ask those questions and be open on his transparent about it.
But I honestly love it. And it pushed me to do that because I rely so heavily on those behavioral observational cues. And so I think professionally, it's helped me grow, you know? And it's the end.
But I communicate differently. That's what I think. I've had to be very intentional about my communication. Or who I'm speaking to and when and making sure things are clear.
Because it's not like I'm going to say something to you. And then I'm going to be like, ah, I forgot something. And then just turn around and come back to your office. It's like, oh, no, I'm very clear.
Yeah. Or even just getting to know your coworkers, right? You don't have that interaction at the water cooler or the microwave or anything like that. But I love that everybody here is so intentional about getting to know each other in a genuine way.
And we have a donut inflac that pairs us up with other employees that we don't normally get to interact with. And we don't talk about work at all. Like we talk about what shows are watching on Netflix or what we're doing in our spare time. And I love that.
And you do have to be very intentional about preserving that culture virtually. And it is different because you don't have those organic meat cute like you would in an office. And you just bump into someone. And you just bump into someone in the parking lot.
But honestly, I love it. Like I said, I will never go back to an office. And I think there's a flip side to that. Because I do think that there's people that are not like us that they want to that interaction.
And we've actually here at Finalize, I'll be transparent. We've had a couple people leave because they just realize that the bully distribution work force was not for them. And so that's just something I want to touch on. Because obviously Rebecca and I are fans.
OK, we are here for it. But for some people, it's not for them. I think it's very hard for people that are maybe earlier in their career because you might need more guidance or you need more feedback. So I think that's something that we said.
And I also think for some people that just being wherever they are in their house or something like that, they just don't want to do it. In fact, my job, he would never. He has flat out said, I would never work from home. He wants to be in an office.
He wants to be out and about. And so I just think that that's a personal preference. That's a difference. And some people try it out.
And they realize it's just not for them. And so we've had some employees leave and say, I love the Coleschaprifying Labs, but I need to be out. And we're like, OK. And then we have other employees that we haven't played.
That's pneumatic. Like he's traveling around. We don't know where he's at. But the worst thing done.
So as long as you have the internet, you know, you can be wherever you need to be. So when we were talking about time zones, I live in the Dallas area. But my fiance is in Washington. So I'm here for the next month.
And it's not a big deal. No one even knew. The only reason they knew is because of the change in my background. And it's not a big deal that I'm across the country now.
So yeah, I think that's something to be said about that, is that you can be wherever you need to be. So yeah. That's so true. And people really need to do some self-discovery with that and really try to envision a career working fully distributedly or working in their home.
Can you make this happen long term? And if not, that's OK. And if yes, that's even better for us. But that's such a good point.
Because there are different types of people that want to engage with people face to face, whether it's with other coworkers, clients, what have you, get out of the house. I know you had touched around your fiance. Now I've been able to work for more. I mean, my husband, who's a physical therapist, literally does not have the option to work for more.
So that's definitely something to consider. I had to think about it. It sounds great. But is it feasible?
Is it feasible for you? Is it feasible for the company that you're working for? It takes some self-discovery, for sure. Yeah.
And I think the living space as well, for some people, their space is just not set up for them to work from home. I was going to say if they had to do the shutdowns, then that was fine. But for some people, actually, this is a funny story from my last employer. We had one of our VPs who had twins.
And they were two years old. And they figured out that he was home in one of the rooms. And so they kept knocking on the door. They would try to come in there.
And so he had to devise this whole plan, where he would literally leave in the morning and be like, bye, and go out through the front door. So they thought he was leaving. And then he would come back around the house and go through the window. No way.
So that they wouldn't think he was there. And so that is just a funny story of having a house. So that's just like a funny story that I'll never forget. That is hilarious.
And it makes me think of setting up boundaries for yourselves to be successful working remotely. You have to have the, obviously, the willpower to control your environment when you work from home. Because you don't have someone looking over your shoulder, looking at your cubicle or in your office to see if you're working. So you really do need to set up those healthy boundaries.
I know early on, when I first started, you had asked the whole team, what are you guys doing to set yourself up for success at home? Are you making sure that you're drinking enough water? Are you making sure that you're moving, taking your lunch? Because you really have to regulate your own environment when you're working remotely.
Yeah. It comes with a lot of freedom. So that's my thought when I think of working from home. It's a lot of freedom.
I could be doing a lot of laundry right now. In between meetings, I might go make the bed. But then at the same time, to your point earlier, I think I actually am working harder. And I actually know that I am.
Because I think it's something, because my computer's right here in my living room, I go do it. And it might be late. So I'm getting stuff done in a very effective way. Because I have access to do it so freely.
So yeah. Absolutely. I love that to your point about just taking an email or taking care of something right then and there. Or on the flip side, if you've done your day's work and it's 4 o'clock, then you're done.
I can't tell you how many times I would be at a cubicle or at an office. And I'm looking at the clock. And I'm like, OK, I've done for the day. But I know physically, I cannot leave.
Because I'm constrained to these working hours. And other people are looking at me. And I don't have that freedom to adjust and either work late or leave early. To that point, it is a balance.
And it's also something that I'm super grateful for that we have here at Refine Labs while we definitely promote work-life balance. It is really nice to have the flexibility to be on either end of that. Yeah. So OK, another funny story about when I work at GM is they have so many floors or they have so many floors.
And so one of the ways that I used to watch people sneak out at the end of the day when they were done, because they don't want their managers to see them. So the managers offices were by the elevator. So people would literally go down the stairs to a different floor and then take the elevator to leave, just so the waiter wouldn't see them. And I remember how crazy is this?
If your work is done, it should not matter if it's 4 o'clock. It's 5, leave. But yes, they used to go through extensive measures, but they made it or not to see when they left. It was funny.
It was 4. So I think that is so funny. And I just look back at that. And I think about the stuff that we're doing at Refine Labs.
And it's so different. You are given the freedom to do what you need to do to get your job done. And I remember when you started and you asked me something about, well, when do I need to be logged in? Or when do I log out?
I said, I don't care. I was like, I don't care. All these things are getting done. That's all that matters.
And I think that's the most important part. It doesn't matter where you're working. It doesn't matter your hours. Is the work getting done?
Period. And I think that's the Refine Labs way. So I definitely think this conversation has been really, really interesting. Is there anything that you miss about the traditional workspace?
Oh, wow. That's a really great question. And I don't know. Anything that I miss?
I miss going to lunches with all of my friends. So that would be a little bit. I was going to say it was so fun. Is that me and all of my co-workers all go to lunch together?
And it was just like the highlight of my day. I was going to say lunch. So at my previous employer, I worked for a city. And I worked in a town hall building, very picturesque.
And it was in the middle of retail and restaurants. And the whole environment was actually very beautiful. And I had Starbucks and my fingertips. And some of the shots too.
So I do miss that having my lunch to walk around in room around. But yeah, I still want to trade it. Yeah. I can go to lunch anytime.
No. I can see people that got to go to lunch. But no, I think that's really important. But definitely, we're doing a different Refine Labs.
So being fully distributed, we don't ever plan on having an office. So that has come up before where people are like, well, do you ever plan to? And we're like, at this point, we are so distributed. There wouldn't even be a place that we could do it.
You know what I mean? It's a great point. You need to make any sense. You're not going to say, oh, everyone has to move to Boston, or everyone has to move to Texas.
That's not going to work. And then I think we are creating, when we think about diversity and inclusion, we are creating opportunities for people because it doesn't matter where you physically are. And opportunities are not everywhere. So for example, if you think about somebody in San Francisco versus somebody in Alabama, there might not be the same opportunities.
But now, if you're remote or fully distributed, you can have those opportunities. And from a DNI space, this is transformative, where you could be wherever you want to be. As long as you have internet access, you could work for us. And so that is something that's just really important to me.
And I think about it. Like, where are we looking for people? It does not matter. You can move.
So for example, one team I think I'm going to take it married. I'm moving to Vegas. It doesn't matter. Nobody cares.
You know what I mean? I'll still be logged in. So I even think that's a big deal. We have people move across the country.
And they literally told us in a very like, oh, by the way, I'm moving, and here's my change of address. We don't ask because it doesn't matter. Because that awesome though, because not only is our candidate well that much larger, right? But then also, we're not losing quality employees.
We're really able to be with them wherever they go. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think from a recruitment standpoint, it is helping us. We're not trapped into you.
You must be within 30 miles of this space. I've seen on LinkedIn where an employer will listen to himself as remote. But then say you have to be within 30, 50 miles. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. I have seen that also. And I've also seen on sites like fully remote, all remote as options.
And those weren't apparent two years ago. Absolutely. I think people that I don't like to call it a game, but it really is. The game has changed.
It has totally changed when it comes to candidates, when it comes to what people expect. And we're not going back. So that's another thing where we'll be like, oh, we're going to know. We're not going back to 2019.
OK. No, we're not. We're moving forward. So I think this is awesome.
Well, I have enjoyed this conversation. Anything else you want to leave us with Rebecca? No, I really enjoyed talking to you. And I'm glad that I've got to share a little bit of my background experience.
And hopefully others can resonate with either of our stories because it is so topical in the times that we're in. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll give one final shout out that if you are looking, or if you're even just interested and you want to take a beak at our career pages, all of our jobs are fully remote or distributed. So feel free to reach out to Rebecca or I on LinkedIn.
If you have any questions, like I said, you can be anywhere that you want to be. But I don't say anywhere in the world. Because you do have to be in the United States or Canada. But you never know, Mike's been worldwide one day.
But for now, that's where you need to be. And we are always looking. So we always have new opportunities. We're growing.
We're about to hit the magical 100 employee mark. So that's going to be really great. We're excited about that. So thank you so much for tuning in.
And this has been a wonderful conversation. Thanks. Bye. Bye.