233 - Safety as a moving target with Danielle Antonelis

Fires in informal settlements and humanitarian settings rarely make headlines, but they define daily life for millions. We sit down with Kindling founder Danielle Antonelis to trace a four-year arc from the non-profits early days and ideas to grounded results: a global shelter database, experimental campaign with 20 full-scale burns, and a learning model that puts residents first. The core shift is profound—safety isn’t a box to tick; it’s a practice repeated and refined across homes, lanes, and entire neighborhoods.We dig into how Kindling translated complex fire science into choices that matter under pressure: where to place a door, how a roof fails, why flames jet from openings, and what that means for neighbors two meters away. Danielle shares how the team balances radical transparency—releasing raw data for engineers—with clear, concise guidance tailored to humanitarians and communities who need to act fast. We also unpack the governance gap: codes designed to protect everyone tend to protect only those who can comply. Performance-based approaches and policy work become lifelines when regulation fails to reach the most vulnerable.The conversation confronts emerging risks head-on. Secondhand batteries and uncertified devices flow into low-resource markets, creating hazards that standard messaging doesn’t address. Rather than preaching certification, Kindling teaches signs of battery distress, safer charging habits, and context-specific tactics that residents can own. In Cape Town—where informal settlements and service delivery are acknowledged—Kindling is piloting conflict-resolution between residents and firefighters, clarifying the fastest emergency call routes, and coordinating tactics within real infrastructure limits.If you care about fire engineering, humanitarian response, or how policy meets practice, this story offers a blueprint: open data, resident-led learning, and practical tools that scale. This is also highly relevant to all fire safety engineers - how we communicate fire science, how we reach with our message to key stakeholders, and how we consider what 'safety' really is.If you would like to hear how it started, check out episode 34: https://www.firescienceshow.com/034-fire-safety-as-a-human-right-not-a-privilege-with-danielle-antonellis/If you want more context how it looks on the ground: https://www.firescienceshow.com/077-informal-settlements-we-need-solutions-not-gadgets-richard-walls/Also make sure to check out Kindling website here: https://kindlingsafety.org/----The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.