240: De Anima 2

Hello and welcome to classical stuff you can know a podcast about classical education philosophy books and today the soul My name is not maybe I'm joined as always by Mr. Hey, hey, hey, Mr. Green Mountain. Hello and since I don't have any what you were taught with hey, we're doing your topic What's up here?

You're a podcast I love to be describing our podcast. It's like I was looking for something philosophical and I found this podcast I guess we're getting up the old we're getting the elbows are finding us to be so we can review something I just I've got some emails people like oh, I thought you guys were looking for topics of philosophy Okay, I guess nothing we talked about last week. I guess so. We thought about enough.

It's usually my thing I guess we're gonna be in the philosophy I mean I know we're only been gone as like further than Kant in terms of oh, we got to talk about I see Satan fault any day car we did a public. Yeah, but that's all I'm thinking terms like modern stuff Oh, yeah, anyway Well today we're doing part two of what I started during our life last which is air cells day Animal or on the soul where he kind of develops his theory on what exactly soul is and if I would review what some of the ideas that they had Pretty as a good ever So like what the soul is. Yeah, it's a number. It's a number.

That's a moving number. Are social numbers They can't be the same ones. It's divided. It's only like that.

Yeah, there's really something when we divide into seven circles And that's anyway moving numbers one big heat was a kind of land in our heads. That's a card Yeah, that it's wind It's tiny There's fire yeah, and it was that one of the main things that sold us for us. You know well isn't Dan I could also be translated to on motion I think that's all I know motion perception You know, it's a shooting of anime right? That's the soul moves you around right exactly So that's nothing for looking for in book two he kind of unveils his theory on what the soul is So you're gonna do that he can talk a little about how to perceive that thing and then talk about the senses and and where he kind of gets his ideas What they do and why that matters so first we start with kind of an idea of different substances So substance is gonna be a free types matter which is like a potential thing It's just like goo.

So mad you got some clay just a matter. It's right there Then there's form which is the shape of the thing right the actual value of the thing That's another type of substance so you have the clay and then you have an idea of like a cup of B And then you have a combination of the two which is the third thing if there are those three types of matter Then what soul is he says would be four? So let me do quote one kind of then other things that there are we call substance and part of this we say to be so as matter That which is not itself a particular thing a site part We say to be so as shape and form in forms with which we apply as I think it's called particular So we have our matter and we have our form and a third as that which comes from the two together No matter's a reality form is actually and this in two ways one of which is knowledge one that's contemplation So he basically says there's the matter There's form and then there's a combination of two which is all becoming to acro valley right? Okay, so our so my soul is the form of Graham kind of yes We're gonna sort of explain upon so bodies are substances right like about some have life and some don't those have life Are we know that I self nourishment growth and okay?

That's the most basic thing of life you grow you die. That's the basics Everybody that protects of life is substance so here the definitions right I'm gonna give two versions of it ones We'll earlier one later later So soul is substance as the form of a natural body which potentially has life So that's the soul is the form of a natural body which potentially has life and since this substance is actual So soul is the actuality of such a body. Yeah, the word here that we're looking for and tell key and like you I don't know I tell you it means like the actuality of something so it's substance as the form of a natural body Which has like so there's substance it can be body it can become a thing that's living and then it is the form of that It is the soul so if you had like a Frankenstein monster on the stretcher in front of the lab in front of you You see it's all these parts together. You had attention out You've got the substance you've got the substance and then for it to be alive.

You need to combine That's not something that's formed. It's form. It's a soul, but you can't just like make that. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah Is it it is that thing in actual?

So I have a couple examples here now clear up so he says we should not then acquire whether the soul and body are one thing Anymore than whether the wax and its imprints are so you have wax and they have like an imprint in the wax So that's not no wax or something else so here the examples he uses he says It's like an axe in the same way of some tools saying acts or natural body It's substance would be being an axe and then this would be its soul to actually like chop and be an axe right So it's an axe and it's actually doing the actual thing that's what we call an axe It's not shopping. It's just like potentially an axe. It's just a body. It's much easier to understand if we're talking about an eye Right if the eye was an animal then sight would be its soul right the activity of the eye being the substance of the eye There's an accordance with the advantage Can we pause for a second?

Is he is he conflating soul with tell us the function of a thing? I don't know that same thing purpose. So purpose no function. Yes Oh my goodness.

So purpose would be like that thing for which is maybe maybe your purpose is to teach You're not talking about the teacher your functioning is more like your soul But my purpose is to be happy right there. So sure but he like the soul gives no crap about what you're happy about It is you're functioning in something So for for an eye to continue this quote and the eyes on the other side so that when sight leaves it It's no longer an eye except by having the same thing like a snowman or paint it I can't see anymore. We wouldn't really call it an eye. It's just a dead thing or broken eye We're broken right it's not really doing the thing the soul of an eye is sight So the soul of you is doing the things that a body with organ normally does right So there's there could be a dead body more does have soul right it's not doing any of its activities It's not actually breathing.

It's not actually moving. It's not sensing. It's not doing any of that It's dead the soul is that things work actually doing that stuff Okay, okay So for just as for just as each part of perception stands to each part of the perceiving body So it is the whole perception stand to the whole perceiving body as such So just as your eyes sees right that's only one part of the body We're talking about the whole body your perception is like all the things that you perceive And that's that's kind of what makes the soul is your body doing the perceiving doing actions of what body should do Okay, so far just thinking that means the souls like when I say the souls like the electrical signals Like existing in my body like the fact that I'm able to do things is my soul right Hearing him say yeah, we modern hairstyle really could sort of break down the substance and the mechanisms of the body would he look at The sort of the electrode The electricity signals in our brains that are causing your own to fire and he say yeah, that's it there Because that's causing the movement or we say always you finally say no, it is something sort of supernatural or non-material I think I think the third book is gonna change this a little bit I think when he gets into intellect things change and that's where he identifies the internal part of soul Yeah, I think not really Which is different for us we identify right yeah, right? I think for him because he doesn't realize what the brain contains and what is doing all that stuff he sort I'm not there yet.

I think that's true He gets all the other senses first which is the end of this book But I think if Aristotle were life, they would say yes That's essentially what it is your body is running it's doing things and that like that actual real functioning of the body is the soul Right the body doing what it's supposed to be doing which is very different than everybody else had thought previously Right with something sort of getting into the body and meaning it from without something attached to it So we read you quote for substance is as we said spoken of three ways as form as matter as the composite So your body and your soul together and if these matter is potentially out of the actual value So the actual value of real body doing everything actual and so the composite is in this case the insole thing a body Actually no stuff it is not the body is the actual value of the soul But the soul is the actual value of some body so it is your body and all the pencil comes with it being actual being alive and doing things That's what your soul is They have supposed well to believe that the soul is neither without body nor a kind of body So the soul isn't outside. It's not it's a kind of body for does not body But belongs to a body and for this reason is present in a body and a body be a perfect kind and not the way The predecessor attached to a body like fire or air or whatever else it was most yeah Making no additional determination as to what body or what kind of body although it does not even seem to be the case that anything receives anything else Intentionally so it is not received. It's not outside thing. I mean it's it is your body in actual value Like the mentality of your body your thing coming through it right form actually bring that substance into real being Yeah, you guys all work.

I can try okay. Okay. So he says if your body is the thing doing the sensing right your job It's not that's what you're so is doing then there's a there's a whole different senses and it turns out They're kind of hierarchy some of them you can separate from life So then you can't really separate from life and recognize that the most basic is nutritive meaning you eat And grow right this is the most basic form of life I'm really well I mean if you separate the new truth. What happens to buy you die.

I stop growing. Yes You stop you stop things up growing and you diminish in the UK So that's one piece of life. They can't really be separated one step up from new to which is just like plants have right Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're okay. They're okay.

That's our whole deal right which by the way There's a fun little section where you talk about plants and nutrition and how some people say it's they're reaching for upward And also we did it weird complications of earth This part in the in the stories actually we get into really weird strange science where I didn't read as closely as I probably should have because all of it Almost all of it is science that we have since left far behind about how things nourish themselves You talk about opposites and you need something with the same kind in the opposite kind and you need heat to digest That's why mammals warm is because that's how we digest is we heat I don't know how well he thinks of this and so there's there's all the real strange science Yeah, there's a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense and he points out that if we're really talking about like up and down It's not even consistent with animals because plants their head would be their roots because that's where they eat He's not wrong there right now do you think you think down is up for plants? They go down right now No, man like some they feel like this on apparently yeah, and honestly They probably have more sense and we give a credit for it's not just because you grow plants and they grow towards the sun They'll find out where the sun is no real. I've got a stock on my desk That's now reaching for the window which is not great for second I should probably want to go that you want your stuff to say like short and what and but he wants the light So he's been growing reaching for the light and so I'm very losing now. I got a little baby tree that is just plastered My window just trying to drink it up as much as you can.

Okay. Yeah, okay So there's an intuitive and so he didn't I don't know if you really talk about the whole heli of taxes thing about planting moving towards the light So he says that plants have souls. Yes. Okay.

The rocks don't have souls. No because they have no no senses There's no sense there's no intuitive soul. They're not growing in the game Remember it is the actual value of the appropriate kind of body so plants have organs just like other things have works rocks No organs. Yeah, so body organs and hassle plants have organs Like a soul.

There's all just is really basic. It is the actual value of the plant and that means it grows in eyes Right that's the place. Oh, it grows reproduction part of needing capsule. We'll talk about that aside We're not just not cool.

Yeah, and I'll bring in like a pet three. Don't think we've ever talked about Oh, fine, but which is fun. So new to do can't be separated a sense of touch is what separates animals from plants Right because with touch comes pleasure and pain. It's what also brings desire you want the pleasure You don't want the pain and so this is what sets animals apart from plants So I've the fact that when I scratch my dog behind his ears, he looks at me with those like those eyes of love My plants don't do this.

You're playing. Look at this, but you don't think so Talk to your plants they grow a little they don't think if you you know Love your plants and talk to them that they're all they feel it Yeah, so this is why some of the signs behind I think they actually do respond to certain types of music Sometimes they're speaking in certain vibrations plants respond but clearly not in the same to the same height and degree as like a dog Right they're not they respond, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they are experiencing pleasure sure or pain Right and so with pleasure pain comes desire so once you have touch you got desire you want the pleasure you want to avoid the pain Well, we were back to this animal's field desire. Yes, animals do feel desire. You're not once you've had it He wants to hang out with me like a little guy.

That's what he does. He's actually just there Yeah, he wants to make a point he does everyone he goes and boops are yeah, he's great Nor's me runs the bedroom. He's mandiboop and then six patiently until she rolls over. Yeah So air style points out that soul because the other questions that nobody else answered was is a sole circle Can you come up right?

Right? How do you come up and someone's like what you come up in words? It's not half a soul. They both have holes holes.

So he's saying it's just a body actually So you know you can play it. It'll be fine even insects This is another funny science. He's like when you cut up insects all the parts keep moving so clearly they still have motion They still have they still respond to touch and stuff for a while for a little bit so clearly like you do that And then unfortunately sure yeah, so for air thought there is a hierarchy of these senses right first It's new to and then there's touch like which kind of comes with like touches on the most basic and then site sounds taste That's what I think the very highest is intellectual which reason which man has nobody else has and I there I haven't gotten a chapter on that that's that's three and we're going on So that is according to ourselves separates man from the animal is the rational faculties. Yes So nutritive perceptive from seeing the stuff is there.

Desiterative which I desire locomotive meaning you can actually move around There's some things that can touch but they can't move to her true and then intellectual right So thanks have new to animals have that at least touch and then they move on all in a series So in the new to each creature nourishes itself and reproduces this is like the first and general faculty of the soul is reproduction And this is where us all says the soul participates in the divine since you cannot continue to exist wait pause Oh no first of all since you can't continue to exist you can make progeny that will keep you existing some for but it's a different So which might get a different soul? If I were to probably a plant so if I were to take a plant and cut off one of its little branches below a note and put that in Compose in a couple weeks. I'm gonna have roots and then you very plant that and you guys have a new plant It is presumably genetically identical to the parent plant but for Aristotle would have a different soul Yeah, it has a different body here right that body is nice stuff and so therefore that body has a soul that's between It's amazing So he says the soul is the cause of body in three ways. It's from which movement itself rises So it causes movement it is for whose sake it is right so we do stuff so that we can reproduce for the sake of our soul We want to keep going right we want our body to continue we want our organs to keep on doing organ stuff But that's not why we have kids Maybe because you What I'm trying to tell this really clear what what is he's saying like we we just said we reproduce because we want to keep on living Well, that is like that is the way we participate in the vine I would say we reproduce because our soul organs want to keep on doing that most most creatures do Sure, like that is a lot of functioning of your body part of that is reproduction And then it's also the formal self-solving soul body right?

So you are the in soul body that is one way soul participates It's also cause of your movement it's going it's also why you want to keep that soul going in because your soul wants to keep doing stuff And then this is where we get to our long cookie science about how food works how up and down is different for plants and then He goes into perception and talks about how light is the motion of transparent as transparent cool So the medium of air is transparent when that works upon your eyeballs that's where you color points out that look Man you can't see color when you press it right on your eyeball so clearly it has to go through medium cool That's like it's the same thing about smell that smell has to go through medium That's air that's what we can smell in water and why they don't have throats because they can't breathe And we only smell when we breathe in and he's like clearly that's different for different animals They can only breathe out. Don't know why that is but our nose is stuck He points out that we're really that's knowing we taste to be the moist and wet so reach these medium Right see via transparent to himself smell via air to himself taste via the moist and wet and touch our medium is the flesh And he also points out that if you have hard skin you are dumber and we are all we are really good at touch We have sauce in and we're smarter. So I'm about stick that in your pockets. Okay.

So hard skin equals. No Something to that. Oh, oh, tell me more. Oh, you're fixing to get it.

Um, no, no You know, I mean, but there's bugs they've hard skin. They don't Who can say otherwise I'm sure if he's right. I was just testing with the glass. It's my eye That the heart is perceived color must be because the colors moving to the medium of air Yeah Cool, right This was the wacky science, but this is like a science bit I can be too proud about about the for those with hard skin are intellectually poor nature.

Those are soft skin the opposite I mean, dogs are soft skin. Yeah dogs are soft skin. There's my yeah turtles. Yeah.

They're hard skin Well, they're not the kids are soft. They're actual skin. So what's harder skin to creature. Yeah.

It's excellent Yeah, yeah Well, that's our skin. So this is probably crocodiles. Yeah elephants come on. Oh, yeah.

It's right. No. Yeah whales Is the top to name all the top of skin. No, but they just have armor and they're probably still softeners Oh, how many better has tough skin?

You know, I better them. No, okay. That is that's the book That was pretty much about yeah, well definition of solace he gives you some crazy signs about how the senses work You can probably say all that although it is entertaining to see how they fought digestion work in sight and smell and taste and all that stuff You know, you need for digestion. You need really really cool.

It's hard. It might produce heat But heat is nothing does it I mean we have we have no heat to die because our body can't function But a lot of this stuff is just because you didn't understand how things work He was only working for for elements hot cold moisturize. I guess He did pretty good for the sun and his logic is pretty solid, but we've left most of it Try to say yeah, I'm trying to make this like warm in the rest of the body, but nothing about that Okay, so I have a few more things talk about this. I mean like we are we have some episode left So we have questions first is I because that is all a bit confusing I pulled the definition from these it's like a lot of the same for some video philosophy of what Aircell says so they say slightly simplifying things by living ourselves in the submarine world being But I believe in please do we can describe the three as stretching a unified planetary framework Within which all vital functions alike from tablets and to reasoning our treat is functions perform by natural organisms of sudles The soul and organism in this framework is nothing other than a system of activities to perform the vital functions But organisms of time naturally perform so when it engages in activities It does so in the virtue of the system abilities that is it's so it's disabilities that you naturally do for your particular body is Does the soul have any dependence on the body like could there accidentally be the form a soul which is the form of something that got in the wrong body or Yes, but no because not it's not I'm saying yeah realization of an organic body doing it's just my god, right?

And this is a positive these two at these two things well It's just like like say you've got some wood and you have the idea of table So that's the soul yeah, so when you actually turn the wood into a table you have an soul before I've done it the soul exists Only as potential yes only as potential when it's realized is when the body actually comes in fruition Yeah, so that's that's the sole gotcha, but I don't think the soul is a it is not necessarily like a different pre-existing thing But a body gets is a body in activity. Can you go after that taking part in the divine thing again? So the only way that we can live forever is how it gets It's how it says this is how that we get to be like the gods because the gods forever. We can't necessarily do it That's what we got kids so we live on in the same kind not necessarily as the same being but they're not having they're not the same soul Not form is different their bodies are different.

Yeah, okay before we talk about that I'm gonna bring up that here's going to get back to how this idea of soul applies to my day So my question I've been going through a lot of Transitions stuff thinking about older versus newer than how that all links into Genesis and the origins of life And one of the big questions about origins of life But then it makes me think and sorry if we got some ideas to your you might as really totally okay And you're wrong that great you shoot me any mail, but I don't know what spot guys. Yeah, I just bought I'm not sure we got any ideas. I mean, yeah, we probably have a lot of I mean any case What's really hard to explain and I haven't seen any really solid time to explain it is why the first cells so say you get your first few Or get multiple people to existence never mind the incredible complexity that's required to have that soul plus reproduction Exist at the same time like revolution work you have to get the soul right. Sorry that the cell plus all the mechanics and machinery required to repeat that cell Enough for it to go through changes right so not only has it has to reproduce has to pass on it's we the possibility of reproduction All that's really complicated The the hardest part for me is to understand why the molecules or cells would actually compete to stay alive They don't desire anything They're not feeling anything There's no like not necessarily any pain that's coming down from where they are and it takes effort to compete for the resources to stay alive Why it's a lot easier to deny why do those cells make any effort at reproduction continuing?

They do not feel pleasure. They do not feel pain. They don't want anything and dying easier What do you say that plants want something? Yeah, plant plants Well, this is the thing that is really hard to explain about life Plants attempt to survive and have no desires at all and what you could say now Like the argument could be made that the only thing that has survived is the thing that wants to survive right through evolution You naturally select for those things that have to survive But that doesn't explain the NASA stages of life why the very first few things what attempts to reproduce to find food to find resources You're talking about like a zero to one problem right like how do you go from anything to the willpower or the fun So it's not the zero to one.

It's from one to two right if we go zero to one We also have things alive. Why didn't it just let itself take down zero? Yeah, yeah, why we we do it because we like we like we're afraid of that No, there's no like it doesn't have it doesn't have any it doesn't have a central like those They're not the same the same sense that plant does we think it likes to be alive well again with modern things You could say evolution has selected those things that have to be on the right just like all the things that But that's all around zero got to like that. I can't say about first things.

Well, maybe there was a lot of things I got run down to zero and this was on the didn't and then it keeps but but it doesn't explain why that one didn't Random chance like the answer for most of those things I mean you can try to explain many things by random chance But mechanical effort like real work for no purpose by an organic molecule especially in the very early stages when there is an easier thing That is incredibly hard to play. Yeah, and I talk to all our scientists. I talked to I've looked at I've tried to get answers The only answer to someone has positive it seems to remotely plausible is that they are they're actually trying to say Live in more like tiny factories that just do things right But even as you look like reading the Wikipedia page about the early stages of life and like reading all those things They talk about these things as if they are live as they desire not because they're simple She's there was a cute role module even even as a simple machine like if you have a factory you randomly up here factory Vennel appears there is why does it turn on why is it making cars way easier to sit there? You have to get the pieces for the cars you have to get the money up to get the workers It's a lot easier to not be yeah, I assume the answer will boil down something like jam's like random Lots and lots of time like those 10 V dancers for right But even then I'm not sure that explains it.

It's not like it's not like explanation right. Yeah You can throw me a chance everything there's things that I don't think we're gonna change well It's just listening to your description It's kind of increasing souls like you imagine that being like an evolutionary framework like the vegetative of your first and then that kind of Vegetative is enough to kind of move there is a new derivative Yeah, you can do that. You know like this touch like all it does is like perpetuate itself There's no real intention behind it and then the tension comes later right you keep the thing alive at first But the thing is it's perpetuating yourself is intention like it takes it except a plant grows or the Sun it brings up water Like it doesn't automatically it does it not through choice. It does it through.

It's always a point to the Sun No matter what but this is this is my point is that it is not choice The choice would be the thing about the plane life How it not be a choice and still happen is the thing that starts with plane like for plants again It could be selection for a long period time, but that doesn't claim well for cells. There is no choice They just they do it and we can't explain why correct. Yeah, and that's because it happens Yeah, because it just happens it just happens it's not satisfying explanation for the the real effort as opposed to real ease Which would be like yourself to count as your own destroy right? Especially the reproduction why would sell what we produce itself doesn't make sense Yeah, like that little bit of effort taking all the resources to make another one of you doesn't make sense when there's no desire involved Yeah, again, that's not exactly from like what happens.

Yeah, so that's one thing that makes me More skeptical about origins of life as random chance It doesn't explain well the effort that life needs and that value of life is something The question in a lot of ways even the modern world like why should life be preserved outside of a more framework? Can't really give it answer other than that we like it Why why do I die like Pointy other this case that we all want survived. I'm just saying why we should continue to do that. It'll be all easier to not I guess I mean pain hurts again, but that's because we have we have sense That's like we're beyond plants and that's a modern thing whereas the early stages We don't want Again, it is really easy to give to give plants to give more of these things when there is no one We're not even that they are working and we can't explain why it's just like saying do things by insects that means we have no idea why you do things Yeah, I don't find answers.

I don't know Like random chance no instinct like the plant does things like it is just made to reach with us on your table But you brought in a couple of things like it means it is made to reach towards the Sun. Yeah Yeah, so there's choice there. No choice. It just does it So the anthropomorphization of early things is always part for me to handle I have a lot of access isolation for why the early things continue to persist outside of choice because they have an I know satisfying outside of some sort of like to find creative outside of my creative right to make sense other other things Don't make as much sense.

Okay, so we have our definition soul How do you guys feel about this in a Christian context like does this does this drive with the church? What how do we how do we take this idea of soul that's the actual actualization of body and then kind of hook that to Yes, oh sure Aquinas to get it made it right. Um, let's see that Christian requires all this everybody No, I don't think so. I think bodies are an important part of the person At least in sort of the theology or at least in the story that we have is that in the end You are the human person who's gonna do you have a new body right?

So in Christian theology We don't I know it's like popular idea to think of like you know in cartoon cat or dog It's killed little like great out Yeah, little great out angel separate leaves and goes up into heaven, but that's not that's not the Christian view Christian view is that there are new bodies and and like the person is a human is a spiritual and physical composite We've got this this some that which is of the angels and that which is of the animals together and so that the asset human beings are Inexplicant cannot be separated from the physical body. That's all the body need to be together You've made a composite his idea that there is no real composite you are a body acting Yeah, I guess it's probably a difference without a distinction, but you call it composite or whether you call it a Body work. Yeah, functional body like by that is doing what's supposed to be doing You said it's the stuff of the angels and the stuff of your earth earth. There's no stuff of the angels.

Yeah, there's nothing extra You are a body working. Oh, there's probably a different certain is that there that the human person being the spiritual physical composite The body's own positive is probably didn't departure from yourself Do you think the the spiritual might just be us trying to explain things that we can't explain it when we say yes Our body activates and doesn't think that's about spirit really sounds like electricity Immultuals and that's what I said that mess with you with it. That's not the case I just don't think we can ever prove that is the case at every point You can probably drill down and you could probably categorize every human action and be able to think it's like you could probably map the brain But the map is different than the territory the map is not the same thing as the thing you could probably do a brain map It's like when this thing happened we have a select your city that doesn't show cause out It just shows correlation. You know, I mean, I actually thought about this when I was looking at earlier today I was looking at how cells divide.

Yeah, they they talk about a cell decides to divide with yes and it communicates via chemicals It doesn't point out causation. Yes. What happens to show what happens in the cell? Causation is incredibly hard for us to nail down.

Why does that look like a thing? I know this probably by all just out there where just I mean, so if you so if you have if you're if you have a system A system of thought that completely removes any kind of spiritual element of things then you start talking about causality with What is observed? But if your system of thought includes the fact that there is super natural things outside of the natural world then the Coz it and then the what you see as causation isn't I mean, it's not solid like it's um Like yeah again if you if you have a heat map of the brain you got sections of the brain firing off when certain stimuli are happening You are making a pretty big leap of faith to say to say cause out that's a bit of electricity sort of causing this thing Even if it's coming like Miloseconds before the action like even still you're in the in the realm of your true Yes, you're noticing so much to go somewhere in the brain, but you haven't said why does it for sure? So I mean like if you eventually you have to say that like Reason and willpower are Allusions that we are under based on mechanical chemical reasons and there's no people who are very comfortable with saying that But I think that if that is gonna be the thing that you rest on you get down like you've got no moral framework For ground you have no solid or to meet a point to build off a like moral paradigm to live off I mean it's just then if everything material everything is just power So are you kind of saying that so aircell says the soul is like a body in activity But are you saying that if you drill down into all the activity of the body at some point you find causation like something is Appelling that it's causing the cells and other things.

It's causing the cells to divide I mean you could say that DNA but something makes we do a lot of life right like I remember being like natural biology And we're like we're gonna learn what it means for things to be alive and eventually get down to it's a lot Here are the categories that we use to describe a thing that is alive and reproduce in grow, but it's like okay We analyze life, but like we haven't we haven't like isolated the thing itself You know, I mean like you give me a few categories you give me like a taxonomy of life We haven't given me the the as it we haven't in the old Greek the idea of it The thing itself it's like saying here's what cars are well you got your job You got your words. Yeah, you know Bix right but you have actually said here's the essence of what this interesting because this is because I was never For the episode coming next I was gonna do a re a recap of the platonic soul and talk about And also something I like which is sort of this kind of getting into this into the stairs But those are just the Lesson is less than a type of describe what life is and more than type of describe how humans probably function exactly right in In there intellect like as they function seems in the world I was the same episode as in competition with yours I was wondering if we were known. No, you're not funny. No, but you're right.

Play this doesn't kind of care about this like like there's Yeah, I think there's all his attempts to be saying here's what appears to be like bodies in function And the fruit I go the more I think there seems to be this thing you call life that is the impetus for all of these things to function I mean I'm talking about like there's life. I don't think he necessarily to make sense I've described it but he says it is the body activity. Yeah, which is maybe more accurate than saying here are the things that Don't like just this body does a certain thing That's why where I land that maybe there is a thing called soul and is that which animates about not aerosol version Which is the body animated? Yeah Maybe are we here to tell some or that's not new?

I've yeah, I think part of what you're talking about I've had the back out of my mind is that I think what he's talking about is something different than what probably a listener I'm gonna show is thinking of when we talk about this whole like by the soul We mean the thing that is distinct from the body a little great I think that was a thing that person after death or the thing that you know I just before life so but Yeah, that's what is there something Well, you've been able to read my book on this so I want to answer that now I'm looking here, but yeah, it's always like four fascinating I understand your soul argument in terms of definitions and so and we haven't gotten the whole argument yet We haven't been to the book. So yeah He was talking about some like thing that gives animation that gives life and motion to a body in the first place And like we would say that that is a thing and maybe we'll get in eventually It's like is that the soul or is that some other thing that might be I don't feel like ever enough to answer that question Yeah, I think that he sort of got in the question by saying is the life emotional body Success, but then here's the thing that he's just like it is the animation. I don't know if that's what not But makes I mean it helps to make more sense people who seem to lose part of the personality when the brain is in It's because this is always a problem of like if the soul is totally immaterial right my brain is important So yeah, I'm myself right and so I like there's always right to play a lot of significance on the body The composite that was the term brain was like that it makes sense for him to do that I'm not sure that the same as the soul like the brain can just be a very important part of the body and separate in the same To the soul and I mean this was a theological problem that earlier. I tried to figure out I was like alright.

We had Jesus was he a body was he not a body and there was you know Something well. Yeah, that that and they had to work through this this idea as well Like is what is like the sort of basic anthropology like what is man and what is the soul is it? I think it can be like software hardware seems I mean talking about this make me wonder if the soul isn't that that animated principle and then the body is the thing Which is so you can lose you can lose part of functioning but that animation what about animated It's the thing starts you actually going that's the soul maybe I'm still figured out I'm not sure where I land on this. I look up scripture and talks about You know the soul going on much of it much of the references to the soul are nearly about your feelings right my soul is also in X Y Z happens or you love more to your heart soul mind those are clearly not referencing the soul as we are trying to see But here yeah, I like everything and plus me ourselves This is he's to get into like he's the Greek colonistic thing whereas a lot of scripture is Jewish Jewish so it's a different Yeah, the mixing of those two things in the early church ends up being this sort of well That's why I became all these questions have you had to be ironed out Yeah, I wonder if life is the same thing as kind of like transcendental right that thing that cannot be defined by referring to anything else Maybe like this motion like so life is the opposite of death like it's not the other thing that I'm in reference to Like true for those things.

It's transcendental right. It's the opposite of death right. Oh, it's false. Yeah I don't know all these things are about my head is every this is how we like to do it No, but we're not quite sure how to deal with the body as the body so yeah And the modern thing obviously is that soul does not exist.

We only have a body. The body guys. You're done. Yeah.

Yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, I wonder if a lot of modern questions are sort of telling the line between these two ideas where we sort of accepted both but not really come to terms with what that means I think so I mean pretty easy just to fall into whatever the like Easy answers to the sort of like I don't know crowdsource answer which I'm trying to say the common Yeah, yeah, there's like exactly it's easy to fall into this like guys any of and um and sort of paper it over with whatever Faitrechion you're in right like So half believe in that realism, but don't be called sure. Yeah, okay Let me know. That's all right. We'll try we will tackle some around injury.

It's like 15 minutes. I think we're like 45 Well, this here's will reverse you Between right after this so Good. Thank you. Thank you.

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